NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is this front page news? Continue to read:

Teen failed for stand on gays
Darrell Giles
October 08, 2006 12:00am


A 13-YEAR-OLD student was failed after she refused to write an assignment on life in a gay community, because of her religious and moral beliefs.

Her outraged mother, Christian groups and the State Opposition want an investigation into the treatment of the Year 9 student at Windaroo Valley State High School, south of Brisbane.


"It's no wonder our kids are struggling with the basics when the Government is allowing this sort of rubbish to be taught in the classroom," Opposition Leader Jeff Seeney told The Sunday Mail yesterday.

The uproar came as Federal Education Minister Julie Bishop this week announced plans for Canberra to take control of school curriculums from the states, accusing "ideologues" of hijacking the education system .

The girl was among a class of 13 and 14-year-olds asked to imagine living as a heterosexual among a mostly homosexual colony on the moon as part of their health and physical education subject.

They had to answer 10 questions, including how they felt about being in the minority and what strategies they would use to help them cope.

They were also asked to discuss where ideas about homosexuality came from.

Sources said the students were told not to discuss the assignment with their parents and that it was to be kept in-class.

They said many of the students were uncomfortable with the subject matter or did not understand the questions.

The 13-year-old girl instantly refused to do the assignment on religious and moral grounds.

"It is against my beliefs and I am not going there," she told the teacher, who responded by failing her.

After a series of discussions between the school and her mother, it was suggested the girl would be better off leaving the state education system and attending an independent school.

The girl's mother said yesterday she did not learn of the assignment until reading her daughter's report card several weeks later and discovered a first-ever fail mark for health and physical education.

"I went to the school thinking there might have been a personality clash with the teacher," said the mother, who asked to be identified only as Bronwyn.

She said she was shown the assignment. "When I started to read it I thought, 'Oh my God' . . . I was shocked by the content," she said.

"My daughter said she didn't want to do the assignment because she did not believe in homosexuality and did not want to answer the questions.

"She was being challenged, but she should not be challenged like that at her age."

Bronwyn was concerned that her daughter was not given an alternative scenario.

She said the school claimed it was powerless to change the curriculum.

Bronwyn said the school seemed more concerned about how parents found out about the assignment.

"That's what concerns me most . . . the parents had no opportunity to even see the assignment," Bronwyn said.

Ms Bishop said the incident highlighted her concerns.

"This is another example of a politically-correct agenda masquerading as curriculum," she said yesterday.

"Parents need to know the content of school curriculum so they can be confident their children are receiving a high quality education that is also consistent with their values."

The State Opposition and Australian Christian Lobby demanded an investigation.

Mr Seeney said Queensland needed common sense back in the classroom.

"The Beattie Labor Government has created a system that tries to tell kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think," he said.

"It is completely out of line for students to be graded on their moral beliefs.

"It's not the job of our schools to politicise our children. It is their function to provide our kids with the basics, like reading, writing and maths."

Christian Lobby state director Peter Earle said the assignment was not about education, rather a teacher or school pushing their own agenda on young minds.

"The subject matter was totally inappropriate," he said.

After being approached by The Sunday Mail, an Education Queensland spokeswoman late yesterday said the school had decided to drop the assignment from its curriculum and would work with the girl and her family to achieve a "satisfactory resolution".

"The aim of the assignment was to encourage students to think about diversity, culture and belief systems," she said.

"Schools can offer alternative assessment topics in consultation with parents, if the school is aware of concerns about an assignment."

_________________________________________________________________

Because heaven forbid, she actually be confronted with how her viewpoints actually affect people. The reaction of this girl and her mother demonstrate to me that both should be forced to do the assignment in question, to teach them a thing or two about tolerance, understanding and reading comprehension. The assignment didn't actually ask her to imagine she was gay, agree with the homosexual orientation, or even debate homosexuality. What it did was ask her to imagine what it would feel like to be in a minority.

And for fuck's sake, what did she expect for refusing to do the assignment? Why should I go to extra work for her just because she has offensive and bigoted views?

Sounds like she just wanted more free time to watch TV. Stupid kid.

Sounds about as gay as Baa Baa Rainbow sheep or the Penguin with two dads.

I'm ashamed this kind of thing happend in my city.

It just goes to show that sometimes all sides of an argument can be wrong.

The school for failing the child for standing up for what she believes in and trying to keep the cirriculum from parents
And the girl's family and community for creating such a narrow minded and intolerant girl within 13 years of life.

The school could have handled things a lot better and understood it may be a fairly touchy subject. But its scary to think that these homophobic fundies exist here in sunny Queensland. I expect this from the southern states of the USA.

I'm ashamed this kind of thing happend in my city.

It just goes to show that sometimes all sides of an argument can be wrong.

The school for failing the child for standing up for what she believes in and trying to keep the cirriculum from parents
And the girl's family and community for creating such a narrow minded and intolerant girl within 13 years of life.

The school could have handled things a lot better and understood it may be a fairly touchy subject. But its scary to think that these homophobic fundies exist here in sunny Queensland. I expect this from the southern states of the USA.
Plenty of assignments are kept from the parents. Schools usually don't explicitly say that assignments should be shown to the parents, and it's fair enough that they might want to ensure an assignment is the student's own work.

she didn't do the assignment? then she gets an F for the assignment. simple as.

whether or not the assignment itself was acceptable is another matter. personally i don't think it sounds too terrible, and refusing to work on religious grounds is not acceptable and certainly would be no reason to get out of failing said assignment if it were up to me.

big deal.

Plenty of assignments are kept from the parents. Schools usually don't explicitly say that assignments should be shown to the parents, and it's fair enough that they might want to ensure an assignment is the student's own work.

I guess its that tricky balance between keeping parents informed and trying to keep them from hijacking the childs assignments so the child has the chance to think for themselves.

*shrugs*

she didn't do the assignment? then she gets an F for the assignment. simple as.

whether or not the assignment itself was acceptable is another matter. personally i don't think it sounds too terrible, and refusing to work on religious grounds is not acceptable and certainly would be no reason to get out of failing said assignment if it were up to me.

big deal.
She doesn't get an F, she gets a "Level 1, 1st Percentile, Student has not displayed knowledge of any of the subject areas of..." :rolleyes:
Effing outcomes based education.

Plenty of assignments are kept from the parents. Schools usually don't explicitly say that assignments should be shown to the parents, and it's fair enough that they might want to ensure an assignment is the student's own work.

It's not permissible where I am for the school to keep the curriculum from the parents. That's a first class invitation to a lawsuit, where the parents will not only win, but make a lot of money from the taxpayers.

No secret curriculum here.

Because heaven forbid, she actually be confronted with how her viewpoints actually affect people. The reaction of this girl and her mother demonstrate to me that both should be forced to do the assignment in question, to teach them a thing or two about tolerance, understanding and reading comprehension. The assignment didn't actually ask her to imagine she was gay, agree with the homosexual orientation, or even debate homosexuality. What it did was ask her to imagine what it would feel like to be in a minority.


Agreed.

she didn't do the assignment? then she gets an F for the assignment. simple as.

whether or not the assignment itself was acceptable is another matter. personally i don't think it sounds too terrible, and refusing to work on religious grounds is not acceptable and certainly would be no reason to get out of failing said assignment if it were up to me.

big deal.

It would be like refusing to do an assignment on impressionism because you think it isnt the best artistic style.

homosexuality is such a crime, and to broaden your way of thinking is dangerous :rolleyes: jeez...

It's not permissible where I am for the school to keep the curriculum from the parents. That's a first class invitation to a lawsuit, where the parents will not only win, but make a lot of money from the taxpayers.

No secret curriculum here.
The school didn't hide the curriculum, it simply didn't tell the parents about it. They will give the details out if asked.

"Parents need to know the content of school curriculum so they can be confident their children are receiving a high quality education that is also consistent with their values."
I take issue with this. A point of the article is that they're complaining about the influence of ebil librels and political correctness on the school. I would think that making sure every child receives an education consistent with their parents values is the height of trying to be politically correct. And besides, as we can see with this girl's mother it's also incredibly stupid.

she didn't do the assignment? then she gets an F for the assignment. simple as.

whether or not the assignment itself was acceptable is another matter. personally i don't think it sounds too terrible, and refusing to work on religious grounds is not acceptable and certainly would be no reason to get out of failing said assignment if it were up to me.

big deal.

Thank you PM....you saved me typing exactly the same thing

I wish I could pick my work/life duties, rather than having to live in the real world

It would be like refusing to do an assignment on impressionism because you think it isnt the best artistic style.
quite, lol
homosexuality is such a crime, and to broaden your way of thinking is dangerous :rolleyes: jeez...
quite again...
She doesn't get an F, she gets a "Level 1, 1st Percentile, Student has not displayed knowledge of any of the subject areas of..." :rolleyes:
Effing outcomes based education.

same difference (in this country at least... or maybe that's a "U" *shrugs*).
either way, if she doesn't do the assignment, how can they know she displays any knowledge of the subject matter? surely she doesn't if she "doesn't believe in homosexuality"?

It's not permissible where I am for the school to keep the curriculum from the parents. That's a first class invitation to a lawsuit, where the parents will not only win, but make a lot of money from the taxpayers.

No secret curriculum here.

The curriculum ain't a secret. You can download the syllabus for every subject taught in the state from the Queensland Studies Authority website. Furthermore, I doubt seriously that the teacher actually said, "Don't show this to your parents." I'm quite sure that it was more along the lines of, "Remember, the assignment is to be your own ideas and your own work, not Mum and Dad's or a friend's."

You gotta love how the girl was told that she failed the assignment("It is against my beliefs and I am not going there," she told the teacher, who responded by failing her.) but didn't tell her mother about it at all(The girl's mother said yesterday she did not learn of the assignment until reading her daughter's report card several weeks later and discovered a first-ever fail mark for health and physical education.....She said she was shown the assignment. "When I started to read it I thought, 'Oh my God' . . . I was shocked by the content," she said.). You'd think if the girl was so against writing about gays she'd complain to her mother ASAP.

When I was 13 I didn't know what homosexuality was.
As a matter of fact, the word heterosexual also meant nothing to me!

Although she needn't have refused point blank to the teacher (thats asking for a fail), she could have tried her best and explained to the teacher that she did not understand the meaning of sexuality.

But the fact is, there are people who are (or claim to be) homosexual, and you can't claim that you don't believe in something that (apparently) exists in society.:headbang:

She (and her parents) could at least accept that there are some people who don't believe the same things they do and imagine being one of them!

Just my tuppence

When I was 13 I didn't know what homosexuality was.
As a matter of fact, the word heterosexual also meant nothing to me!

Although she needn't have refused point blank to the teacher (thats asking for a fail), she could have tried her best and explained to the teacher that she did not understand the meaning of sexuality.

But the fact is, there are people who are (or claim to be) homosexual, and you can't claim that you don't believe in something that (apparently) exists in society.:headbang:

She (and her parents) could at least accept that there are some people who don't believe the same things they do and imagine being one of them!

Just my tuppence


The assignment didn't call for her to imagine herself as being homosexual, it called for her to imagine being the only heterosexual on the moon among a colony of homosexuals. Now it occurs to me that any gays in the class were supposed to pretend to be straight.

When I was 13 I didn't know what homosexuality was.
As a matter of fact, the word heterosexual also meant nothing to me!



right. used other means of explaining the issue? She must ahve have known what homosexuality is (or idea) or she wouldn't have refused.

When I was 13 I didn't know what homosexuality was.
As a matter of fact, the word heterosexual also meant nothing to me!


Sort of the same here. I didn't understand that it was physically possible for people who weren't married to have relations like that until around that time...although I still don't really understand why people like each other, whether they're of different or same genders.

The girl was among a class of 13 and 14-year-olds asked to imagine living as a heterosexual among a mostly homosexual colony on the moon as part of their health and physical education subject.

Well, that colony won't last very long.

If I were her, I'd probably be bitter, and write one or two sentences saying that it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever, and that I've got better things to do than worry about what other people do in their bedrooms.

When I was 13 I didn't know what homosexuality was.
As a matter of fact, the word heterosexual also meant nothing to me!

Although she needn't have refused point blank to the teacher (thats asking for a fail), she could have tried her best and explained to the teacher that she did not understand the meaning of sexuality.

But the fact is, there are people who are (or claim to be) homosexual, and you can't claim that you don't believe in something that (apparently) exists in society.:headbang:

She (and her parents) could at least accept that there are some people who don't believe the same things they do and imagine being one of them!

Just my tuppence

But telling the teacher that she doesn't understand the meaning of sexuality might have led to the teacher explaining that to her. Which, apparently, had to be avoided at all costs, because it "goes against her religious beliefs"...

How religion comes into play when being asked how you would feel like as a minority due to your sexual orientation is something I can't quite follow though.

You gotta love how the girl was told that she failed the assignment("It is against my beliefs and I am not going there," she told the teacher, who responded by failing her.) but didn't tell her mother about it at all(The girl's mother said yesterday she did not learn of the assignment until reading her daughter's report card several weeks later and discovered a first-ever fail mark for health and physical education.....She said she was shown the assignment. "When I started to read it I thought, 'Oh my God' . . . I was shocked by the content," she said.). You'd think if the girl was so against writing about gays she'd complain to her mother ASAP.

See, that's my thoughts. I think she's pulling a fast one.

Though, I still can't believe that this was front page news in my state. I hate living in the redneck state.

If I were her, I'd probably be bitter, and write one or two sentences saying that it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever, and that I've got better things to do than worry about what other people do in their bedrooms.

You get a B. Good answer, but the idea of answering 10 questions in 2 sentences makes my brain cry.

Sort of the same here. I didn't understand that it was physically possible for people who weren't married to have relations like that until around that time...although I still don't really understand why people like each other, whether they're of different or same genders.

*lol
What exactly do you think would physically change once you sign a piece of paper that says you're married? ;)

Although she needn't have refused point blank to the teacher (thats asking for a fail), she could have tried her best and explained to the teacher that she did not understand the meaning of sexuality.

But the fact is, there are people who are (or claim to be) homosexual, and you can't claim that you don't believe in something that (apparently) exists in society.:headbang:

She (and her parents) could at least accept that there are some people who don't believe the same things they do and imagine being one of them!

Just my tuppence
exactly my thinking

Thank you PM....you saved me typing exactly the same thing

I wish I could pick my work/life duties, rather than having to live in the real world

w00t! :)

*lol
What exactly do you think would physically change once you sign a piece of paper that says you're married? ;)

It's a magic piece of paper.

You get a B. Good answer, but the idea of answering 10 questions in 2 sentences makes my brain cry.

I know the art of the run-on...


...my Kung-fu is strong!

It's a magic piece of paper.

Well, if it's all that's needed to change your body, it must be :D

The assignment didn't call for her to imagine herself as being homosexual, it called for her to imagine being the only heterosexual on the moon among a colony of homosexuals. Now it occurs to me that any gays in the class were supposed to pretend to be straight.

Kinda makes you think they'd have more to complain about huh?

Why is this front page news? Continue to read:

Teen failed for stand on gays
Darrell Giles
October 08, 2006 12:00am


A 13-YEAR-OLD student was failed after she refused to write an assignment on life in a gay community, because of her religious and moral beliefs.

Her outraged mother, Christian groups and the State Opposition want an investigation into the treatment of the Year 9 student at Windaroo Valley State High School, south of Brisbane.


"It's no wonder our kids are struggling with the basics when the Government is allowing this sort of rubbish to be taught in the classroom," Opposition Leader Jeff Seeney told The Sunday Mail yesterday.

The uproar came as Federal Education Minister Julie Bishop this week announced plans for Canberra to take control of school curriculums from the states, accusing "ideologues" of hijacking the education system .

The girl was among a class of 13 and 14-year-olds asked to imagine living as a heterosexual among a mostly homosexual colony on the moon as part of their health and physical education subject.

They had to answer 10 questions, including how they felt about being in the minority and what strategies they would use to help them cope.

They were also asked to discuss where ideas about homosexuality came from.

Sources said the students were told not to discuss the assignment with their parents and that it was to be kept in-class.

They said many of the students were uncomfortable with the subject matter or did not understand the questions.

The 13-year-old girl instantly refused to do the assignment on religious and moral grounds.

"It is against my beliefs and I am not going there," she told the teacher, who responded by failing her.

After a series of discussions between the school and her mother, it was suggested the girl would be better off leaving the state education system and attending an independent school.

The girl's mother said yesterday she did not learn of the assignment until reading her daughter's report card several weeks later and discovered a first-ever fail mark for health and physical education.

"I went to the school thinking there might have been a personality clash with the teacher," said the mother, who asked to be identified only as Bronwyn.

She said she was shown the assignment. "When I started to read it I thought, 'Oh my God' . . . I was shocked by the content," she said.

"My daughter said she didn't want to do the assignment because she did not believe in homosexuality and did not want to answer the questions.

"She was being challenged, but she should not be challenged like that at her age."

Bronwyn was concerned that her daughter was not given an alternative scenario.

She said the school claimed it was powerless to change the curriculum.

Bronwyn said the school seemed more concerned about how parents found out about the assignment.

"That's what concerns me most . . . the parents had no opportunity to even see the assignment," Bronwyn said.

Ms Bishop said the incident highlighted her concerns.

"This is another example of a politically-correct agenda masquerading as curriculum," she said yesterday.

"Parents need to know the content of school curriculum so they can be confident their children are receiving a high quality education that is also consistent with their values."

The State Opposition and Australian Christian Lobby demanded an investigation.

Mr Seeney said Queensland needed common sense back in the classroom.

"The Beattie Labor Government has created a system that tries to tell kids what to think instead of teaching them how to think," he said.

"It is completely out of line for students to be graded on their moral beliefs.

"It's not the job of our schools to politicise our children. It is their function to provide our kids with the basics, like reading, writing and maths."

Christian Lobby state director Peter Earle said the assignment was not about education, rather a teacher or school pushing their own agenda on young minds.

"The subject matter was totally inappropriate," he said.

After being approached by The Sunday Mail, an Education Queensland spokeswoman late yesterday said the school had decided to drop the assignment from its curriculum and would work with the girl and her family to achieve a "satisfactory resolution".

"The aim of the assignment was to encourage students to think about diversity, culture and belief systems," she said.

"Schools can offer alternative assessment topics in consultation with parents, if the school is aware of concerns about an assignment."

_________________________________________________________________

Because heaven forbid, she actually be confronted with how her viewpoints actually affect people. The reaction of this girl and her mother demonstrate to me that both should be forced to do the assignment in question, to teach them a thing or two about tolerance, understanding and reading comprehension. The assignment didn't actually ask her to imagine she was gay, agree with the homosexual orientation, or even debate homosexuality. What it did was ask her to imagine what it would feel like to be in a minority.

And for fuck's sake, what did she expect for refusing to do the assignment? Why should I go to extra work for her just because she has offensive and bigoted views?
It's front page news because the newspaper is probably shocked that people can't withdraw from an Education system that ignores people's views. Personally, I support the school, because not including homosexuality as a topic in Education goes against the principles of secularism.

Is it just me or is expecting a 13/14 year old to have the maturity or experience to write about their own sexuality and how it relates to those surrounding them quite a stretch let alone expecting someone who is just getting used to their own body (which 'aint finished changing yet) and sexual viewpoint then imagining living in a world where everyone has the opposite viewpoint?

How is someone starting puberty able to really consider the issues which they are still finding about themselves? When they don't even know how they fit into THIS society yet.

Sure - give something like this to 18 year olds - people who have actually (mostly) finished puberty, and have a decent idea of their own sexual identity and how they relate to society.

Otherwise it's like asking a virgin about wether they prefer doggystyle or missionary.

It's front page news because the newspaper is probably shocked that people can't withdraw from an Education system that ignores people's views. Personally, I support the school, because not including homosexuality as a topic in Education goes against the principles of secularism.

And because 73h h0m0ph0835 need to realize that they will lose in 2008-2012.

looks like thissilly homophobia isent just in the USA's bible belt anymore. that girl should be ashamed of herself.

Is it just me or is expecting a 13/14 year old to have the maturity or experience to write about their own sexuality and how it relates to those surrounding them quite a stretch let alone expecting someone who is just getting used to their own body (which 'aint finished changing yet) and sexual viewpoint then imagining living in a world where everyone has the opposite viewpoint?

How is someone starting puberty able to really consider the issues which they are still finding about themselves? When they don't even know how they fit into THIS society yet.

Sure - give something like this to 18 year olds - people who have actually (mostly) finished puberty, and have a decent idea of their own sexual identity and how they relate to society.

Otherwise it's like asking a virgin about wether they prefer doggystyle or missionary.


That's just you. Nobody was asking them to lecture on the effects homosexuality has on the psyche of the homosexual, or on how they themselves felt about homosexual sex. They were simply asked to give some thought to how they would feel if their sexuality made them a minority. To form a viewpoint - any viewpoint - it is necessary to take in all angles (or as many as possible) in order to be able to decide on your opinion.

She clearly had one already, didn't she? And it was refusing to discuss her opinion that got her failed.

looks like thissilly homophobia isent just in the USA's bible belt anymore. that girl should be ashamed of herself.

What if she was forced to live in the gayest parts of LA for a month? How would she feel after coming out?

Is it just me or is expecting a 13/14 year old to have the maturity or experience to write about their own sexuality and how it relates to those surrounding them quite a stretch let alone expecting someone who is just getting used to their own body (which 'aint finished changing yet) and sexual viewpoint then imagining living in a world where everyone has the opposite viewpoint?

How is someone starting puberty able to really consider the issues which they are still finding about themselves? When they don't even know how they fit into THIS society yet.

Sure - give something like this to 18 year olds - people who have actually (mostly) finished puberty, and have a decent idea of their own sexual identity and how they relate to society.

Otherwise it's like asking a virgin about wether they prefer doggystyle or missionary.

No it's not too much to ask. The assignment asked them to imagine how they would feel about being in the minority because of a genetically determined fact. Unless you're proposing that sexual orientation is a choice?

"imagine living as a heterosexual among a mostly homosexual colony on the moon as part of their health and physical education subject.

They had to answer 10 questions, including how they felt about being in the minority and what strategies they would use to help them cope."

Does this exercise not strike anyone as incredibly silly?
even if the goal was to encourage broader minds etc. are there not more sensible ways to go about it like say actually talking to a gay person?

To form a viewpoint - any viewpoint - it is necessary to take in all angles (or as many as possible) in order to be able to decide on your opinion.

She clearly had one already, didn't she? And it was refusing to discuss her opinion that got her failed.

Indeed. Clearly 13 isn't too young to have strongly held prejudice, so it's not really too young to be forced to question them.

"imagine living as a heterosexual among a mostly homosexual colony on the moon as part of their health and physical education subject.

They had to answer 10 questions, including how they felt about being in the minority and what strategies they would use to help them cope."

Does this exercise not strike anyone as incredibly silly?
even if the goal was to encourage broader minds etc. are there not more sensible ways to go about it like say actually talking to a gay person?

It's called "roleplay". And it is a method of teaching about other cultures, ethnicities or lifestyles that actually works pretty effectively. Talking to a gay person still means you're straight and "normal", while the other one is gay and not the norm. You will not identify with him/her in any way, usually.
Identification with a minority is a very effective way of teaching tolerance.

No it's not too much to ask. The assignment asked them to imagine how they would feel about being in the minority because of a genetically determined fact. Unless you're proposing that sexual orientation is a choice?
Way to read the wrong message into the point at the end.

Although i think the jury is still out on nature vs nurture vs both on sexual preferences I think that by the time you know what your sexuality is there is not much choice left.

I don't really give a toss what gender you like to go to bed with. Or how you like to do things when you get there.

What I am saying is that many of these kids have little experience of their OWN sexuality. Hence asking them about other peoples sexuality is a bit unfair. And as someone pointed out - this would really mess with the heads of any of the kids who were actually just discovering they were gay.

Give the question to kids who are old enough to actually understand it. Unless you want some mickey mouse answers that the kid did not think about or does not believe.

She clearly had one already, didn't she? And it was refusing to discuss her opinion that got her failed.
well said :D

It's front page news because ... *snip*

because politicians can jump on the bandwagon and use the story to slag each other off. its also front page news because the papers can make it sound shocking by taking her side in a blatant (and probably quite successful) attempt at selling thier product. doom- and shock-mongering media is nothing new...

Way to read the wrong message into the point at the end.

Although i think the jury is still out on nature vs nurture vs both on sexual preferences I think that by the time you know what your sexuality is there is not much choice left.

I don't really give a toss what gender you like to go to bed with. Or how you like to do things when you get there.

What I am saying is that many of these kids have little experience of their OWN sexuality. Hence asking them about other peoples sexuality is a bit unfair. And as someone pointed out - this would really mess with the heads of any of the kids who were actually just discovering they were gay.

Give the question to kids who are old enough to actually understand it. Unless you want some mickey mouse answers that the kid did not think about or does not believe.

What does this have to do with their own sexuality? They're asked to pretend they are heterosexual and on the moon with a colony of homosexuals. The point is that they are in the minority.

Identification with a minority is a very effective way of teaching tolerance.

i wonder if there'd been such a fuss if the kids had been asked to write about what it would feel like to be a black person in a country of predominantly white population? or visa-versa.

i wonder if there'd been such a fuss if the kids had been asked to write about what it would feel like to be a black person in a country of predominantly white population? or visa-versa.

"I don't believe in black people. They're offensive to Christianity."

I'm ashamed this kind of thing happend in my city.

It just goes to show that sometimes all sides of an argument can be wrong.

The school for failing the child for standing up for what she believes in and trying to keep the cirriculum from parents
And the girl's family and community for creating such a narrow minded and intolerant girl within 13 years of life.

The school could have handled things a lot better and understood it may be a fairly touchy subject. But its scary to think that these homophobic fundies exist here in sunny Queensland. I expect this from the southern states of the USA.

Haha for a sec thought you were gonna say in the Southern states of Australia. :D Im in NSW but its still south of QLD.

"I don't believe in black people. They're offensive to Christianity."

exactly.

What does this have to do with their own sexuality? They're asked to pretend they are heterosexual and on the moon with a colony of homosexuals. The point is that they are in the minority.

And my point is that they should understand why they are in the minority, and about themselves (at the very least, let alone about the majority) before they could answer the question.

If they do not understand their own sexuality, which at 13 a lot of kids dont, then how can they imagine themselves living in a society with other sexualities as the majority and how their sexuality affects them, let alone others.

If this was simply about imagining being in a minority living amoung a majority then they should ahve used Race, or possibly nationality, as the kids would at least have a decent understanding about that.

Unfortunately, this girl was a stupid bitch. A brat, even. And her parents are dumbasses.

My ten cents.

And my point is that they should understand why they are in the minority, and about themselves (at the very least, let alone about the majority) before they could answer the question.

If they do not understand their own sexuality, which at 13 a lot of kids dont, then how can they imagine themselves living in a society with other sexualities as the majority and how their sexuality affects them, let alone others.

If this was simply about imagining being in a minority living amoung a majority then they should ahve used Race, or possibly nationality, as the kids would at least have a decent understanding about that.

You do know the significant difference between being the only gay on the planet to being the only mexican on the planet, right? You can't fuck. Ever. Slight difference. It wouldn't have been the same.

she didn't do the assignment? then she gets an F for the assignment. simple as.

whether or not the assignment itself was acceptable is another matter. personally i don't think it sounds too terrible, and refusing to work on religious grounds is not acceptable and certainly would be no reason to get out of failing said assignment if it were up to me.

big deal.

Pretty much my stand, yep.

What I am saying is that many of these kids have little experience of their OWN sexuality. Hence asking them about other peoples sexuality is a bit unfair. And as someone pointed out - this would really mess with the heads of any of the kids who were actually just discovering they were gay.

Give the question to kids who are old enough to actually understand it. Unless you want some mickey mouse answers that the kid did not think about or does not believe.

Must disagree a bit here. In debate class in High School, you are required to argue both sides of a debate. Common topics include death penalty abortion and all the usual hot topics of the day. Im sure the debating 13 year olds also have limited experience and understanding and have talked to very few serial murderers and have a somewhat limited understanding of Justice and death, but yet the excersice of debating both sides of the death penalty without question teaches critical thinking and reasoning skills. The issue of personal belief is irrelevant to the lesson being taught. As it should be IMO.

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."

Do at least try to remember that there are other cultures and opinions in the world, and that tolerance means not letting them be threatened in a school environment.

What I am saying is that many of these kids have little experience of their OWN sexuality. Hence asking them about other peoples sexuality is a bit unfair. And as someone pointed out - this would really mess with the heads of any of the kids who were actually just discovering they were gay.

Give the question to kids who are old enough to actually understand it. Unless you want some mickey mouse answers that the kid did not think about or does not believe.

its called expanding your horizons. understanding what you did not previously understand.
its also called "learning"

most kids are in school to learn...



whether or not it is appropriate for kids to learn that kind of thing in a school environment is another matter and probably highly subjective.

I agree with the original sentiment of this thread: why should this be news? Why is "religious belief" considered somehow more important or more serious than non-superstitious belief? Why should a kid be allowed to get out of doing her homework for "religious reasons," when other kids can't get out of their homework for non-superstitious reasons?

Frankly, I think that a person's beliefs automatically become more suspect when they start attributing their values to magical Creator beings that may or may not even exist. This kid deserves even less attention than a kid who says it is against their personal moral philosophy to do their homework.

You do know the significant difference between being the only gay on the planet to being the only mexican on the planet, right? You can't fuck. Ever. Slight difference. It wouldn't have been the same.

Which makes the assignment even dumber. It's not as though gay people are totally alone and never ever get to have sex...

The issue is to teach tolerance and to understand living as a minority, not to imagine a life of abstinance...

"Imagine you are a member of the Ud-rse-treq tribe from South America, write about your experiences living amoung the El-Trong majority and how it feels"

Make much sense? Able to write about that? Know what it feels like to be an US-rse-treq? Know what the El-Trongs do to them? Able to even begin to write about how they two groups relate?

Or would any reply simply be an uninformed guess about how it feels to be a memeber of either group?

If someone does not know their own sexuality then asking them about others is a bit stupid.

I disagree with her reason for not doing the coursework, but that does not mean I have to agreew ith the coursework to start with.

I think give this sort of thing to kids when they have the maturity and understanding to give a non-mickey-mouse answer.

Well, that colony won't last very long.

But they would have lovely soft furnishings :D

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."

You're right, she was fully within reason to say "I'm not writing this," provided that she was prepared to receive a grade that reflected her refusal to do the assignment. You don't get to receive an A for an assignment you chose not to do.


Do at least try to remember that there are other cultures and opinions in the world, and that tolerance means not letting them be threatened in a school environment.
Yeah, which is why we should stop making racists feel threatened by teaching kids to respect black people in our schools. We should respect racist culture in the school environment.

Or, you know, not. We could teach kids the skills they will need in order to function in our society, and one of those skills is the ability to coexist with gay people, black people, atheist people, and a whole host of other people who you might not completely like or agree with. We could teach kids to empathize even with the "other side," in the hopes of making them kinder and more thoughtful adults.

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."

Do at least try to remember that there are other cultures and opinions in the world, and that tolerance means not letting them be threatened in a school environment.

so just because something is against my belief, I can refuse do it, nevermind. the fact that, that opinions is biased toward OTHER opinions? bullshit.

people shouldn't try to change a view that homosexuality is a perversion, just because it is an opinion (and based in a culture)?

That's just you. Nobody was asking them to lecture on the effects homosexuality has on the psyche of the homosexual, or on how they themselves felt about homosexual sex. They were simply asked to give some thought to how they would feel if their sexuality made them a minority. To form a viewpoint - any viewpoint - it is necessary to take in all angles (or as many as possible) in order to be able to decide on your opinion.

She clearly had one already, didn't she? And it was refusing to discuss her opinion that got her failed.

Yeah well, you put it much better than me.

Or, you know, not. We could teach kids the skills they will need in order to function in our society, and one of those skills is the ability to coexist with gay people, black people, atheist people, and a whole host of other people who you might not completely like or agree with. We could teach kids to empathize even with the "other side," in the hopes of making them kinder and more thoughtful adults.

don't be silly, bottle :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."

Do at least try to remember that there are other cultures and opinions in the world, and that tolerance means not letting them be threatened in a school environment.

So, trying to understand what it must be like to live as a minority due to your sexual orientation is against cultural values? Ok, fair enough.
And that teacher was well within his/her authority, I'd say.

But she did say "Hey, I'm not writing this", which is of course her right, and the teacher responded correctly by failing her for the assignment, which is his right in that case.

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."

Do at least try to remember that there are other cultures and opinions in the world, and that tolerance means not letting them be threatened in a school environment.

Since when has it ever been within reason in the US school system to refuse an assignment and not get failed? Its the 13 year old kid that says this assignment is bullshit that typically ends up hanging out by the lockers near the shop classes trying to skip class and smoke cigs ;)

I might add something about how my incessant demands for "20 bucks now!" and randomly hitting on lesbians might irritate the locals, probably getting me kicked out.

You do know the significant difference between being the only gay on the planet to being the only mexican on the planet, right? You can't fuck. Ever. Slight difference. It wouldn't have been the same.

*ahem* Rape.... Duh.

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs. Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another. Props to the few that may have this in their mind already. I say W00t for this little girl and her mother.

Which makes the assignment even dumber. It's not as though gay people are totally alone and never ever get to have sex...

The issue is to teach tolerance and to understand living as a minority, not to imagine a life of abstinance...

"Imagine you are a member of the Ud-rse-treq tribe from South America, write about your experiences living amoung the El-Trong majority and how it feels"

Make much sense? Able to write about that? Know what it feels like to be an US-rse-treq? Know what the El-Trongs do to them? Able to even begin to write about how they two groups relate?

Or would any reply simply be an uninformed guess about how it feels to be a memeber of either group?

If someone does not know their own sexuality then asking them about others is a bit stupid.

I disagree with her reason for not doing the coursework, but that does not mean I have to agreew ith the coursework to start with.

I think give this sort of thing to kids when they have the maturity and understanding to give a non-mickey-mouse answer.


If you don't know, read up about them. That's what the assignment was about in the first place. Get the information you need to form an opinion, and then formulate that opinion. :rolleyes:

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs. Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another. Props to the few that may have this in their mind already. I say W00t for this little girl and her mother.

we're intolerant of her intolerance? oh noes!
i'm ashamed to be a bigot against bigots. really, i am :rolleyes:

so just because something is against my belief, I can refuse do it, nevermind. the fact that, that opinions is biased toward OTHER opinions? bullshit.

people shouldn't try to change a view that homosexuality is a perversion, just because it is an opinion (and based in a culture)?

In a school, they shouldn't. That is not the place of a school. That duty and choice belongs to parents and possibly (if parents have entrusted them) religious leaders.

Guess what, schools should not be a place for any subjective opinions to be taught. We create our schools to offer children a healthy and stable place to learn. One of the characteristics of such a place is that it does not make children feel threatened. One of the threats that a school should not offer is the threat of having your moral or religious opinion attacked. You may see this as 'right; wrong' or 'good; bad', but it isn't that simple. It's an issue with many, if not equally correct, equally valid opinions.

Tolerance is the keyword here. You cannot claim to be tolerant until you understand that that occasionally means allowing an opinion you don't like to be respected.

we're intolerant of her intolerance? oh noes!
i'm ashamed to be a bigot against bigots. really, i am :rolleyes:

*tsk, tsk*

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs. Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another. Props to the few that may have this in their mind already. I say W00t for this little girl and her mother.Yeah, because heaven forbid we be intolerant of laziness...

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs. Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another. Props to the few that may have this in their mind already. I say W00t for this little girl and her mother.

I know i'm intolerant of her beliefs damn right. stupid beleifs anyway .(i'm not preaching total tolerance thats impossible, people will Hate, dislike and fuck eachother over, it inevitable)

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs. Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another. Props to the few that may have this in their mind already. I say W00t for this little girl and her mother.

Oh, she's got every right to her opinion. The problem here was that she refused to write about it in her assignment, and is presented as a martyr for that.
Had she written about how she would feel about living in a colony full of perverted sinners, nothing would have happened. But apparently, even thinking about homosexuals was against her belief...

Point proven, sides clashing with no one about to give in to the other, who's to say who is the bigot and who isn't? Where is the unchanging moral standard?

Since when has it ever been within reason in the US school system to refuse an assignment and not get failed? Its the 13 year old kid that says this assignment is bullshit that typically ends up hanging out by the lockers near the shop classes trying to skip class and smoke cigs ;)

You can ask for an alternate assignment. Whiny kids with parents who don't think children should read the "N-Word" (Oh Teh NOES!!!! :rolleyes: ) regularly keep students from reading Huck Finn. Normally they read "To Kill a Mockingbird" instead.

If you don't know, read up about them. That's what the assignment was about in the first place. Get the information you need to form an opinion, and then formulate that opinion. :rolleyes:

Don't discuss it with people who might know about some of the issues, in class, write about how you feel.

To write about how you feel you must have understanding which is VERY different from knowledge.

Give this to kids old enough to understand sexuality and you'll have a useful assugnment. Give it to kids who aren't and you ahve a bunk assignment that will teach them little.

I do not disagree with the assignment in principle. I do not think the girl had a valid reason for refusing it. But I do not think the assignment was given to the right age group.

Oh, she's got every right to her opinion. The problem here was that she refused to write about it in her assignment, and is presented as a martyr for that.
Had she written about how she would feel about living in a colony full of perverted sinners, nothing would have happened. But apparently, even thinking about homosexuals was against her belief...

You had better believe somethign would have happened had she written this in her class. There's no way it wouldn't have made the news.

Point proven, sides clashing with no one about to give in to the other, who's to say who is the bigot and who isn't? Where is the unchanging moral standard?Hardly. Being intolerant of intolerance does not make one a bigot, no matter how apologetists try to spin it.

Point proven, sides clashing with no one about to give in to the other, who's to say who is the bigot and who isn't? Where is the unchanging moral standard?

There's no such thing.
And if you have a look at the text, moral judgement wasn't the topic of the assignment. It was a "imagine if roles were reversed" kind of thing. It wasn't even "imagine if you were gay in a heterosexual world", no, the teacher actually was sensitive enough to create a scenario where the students' own heterosexuality wasn't challenged, simply the effect it has on their lives had changed.

Hardly. Being intolerant of intolerance does not make one a bigot, no matter how apologetists try to spin it.

You've got some balls in saying that one my friend

Give me twenty bucks now!

-------------------------------

Hey there ladies, I noticed you two were talkin' together nice and happy, you like to come back to my place and have 'talk' with me?

-------------------------------

I want yer money! Give now or I go get skooma!

-------------------------------

Darlin's, you're both lookin' maahty fahn ternight *hic* you wants to come back *hic* *hic* *passes out*

-------------------------------

Wait, but, you're both wearing miniskirts...I thought you two were women... :eek:

-------------------------------

Sample bits of conversation to be included in my essay.

It's totally rediculous to read these posts and replies on here day after day. None of you have quite grasped the realization that by singling this girl out, you are being INTOLERANT of her beliefs.

I tolerate her beliefs just fine. I have no interest in forcing her to give up her beliefs, nor do I wish to persecute her for holding them. I am not proposing that our schools teach kids that this girl is stupid or wicked. I simply expect that she be held to exactly the same standards as everybody else.

Refusing to give her special treatment does not constitute "intolerance." If she doesn't want to do her homework, then she gets to take a zero for it just like any other kid would if they didn't do the homework. Very simple.


Shame on all of you for being the biggest hypocrits possible for this type of stupid PC-ness. Realize that total intolerance is impossible as somebody's beliefs will almost inherently tread on those of another.

Bullshit. That's just a cop-out used by people who think that "freedom of religion" means "I am free to act like a jackass with no repercussions because I invoke the name of Jee-sus-ah!"

It is perfectly possible to be tolerant of other people while still holding your own beliefs. It is perfectly possible to be tolerant while also holding your fellow humans to a certain set of minimum standards.

You had better believe somethign would have happened had she written this in her class. There's no way it wouldn't have made the news.

Had she provided her reasons for her convictions and believes, nothing apart from possibly a lively debate would have ensued.
In assignments like this, it's not the correct/incorrect answers that get graded, as there are none. It's the presentation and the reasoning.

You've got some balls in saying that one my friendDon't need them for this. Internet anonymity has its merits all on its own.

It's almost like refusing to do a report on the Holocaust because you're racist.

You had better believe somethign would have happened had she written this in her class. There's no way it wouldn't have made the news.
Yes there is. Kids write offensive stuff into assignments all the time, and they either get bad marks or disciplinary action is taken. But the news media is generally not alerted.

Fact of the matter is that the assignment was a good idea - encouraging people to think about how it is to be in a minority is not a bad thing. That is part of teaching kids "how to think". It might as well have been about "imagine you were the only white people in a country full of black people" or something - except that bigotry about homosexuality is more prevalent than racism, and should therefore take priority.

The school shouldn't have tried to shy away from controversy by trying to avoid parents finding out about it. But to fail the kid was perfectly acceptable - what would be next? Kids refusing to do science projects because nature conflicts with creationism?

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.

Don't discuss it with people who might know about some of the issues, in class, write about how you feel.

To write about how you feel you must have understanding which is VERY different from knowledge.

Give this to kids old enough to understand sexuality and you'll have a useful assugnment. Give it to kids who aren't and you ahve a bunk assignment that will teach them little.

I do not disagree with the assignment in principle. I do not think the girl had a valid reason for refusing it. But I do not think the assignment was given to the right age group.

They weren't supposed to write about sexuality, neither homo nor hetero.
They were supposed to write about how it would make them feel if their orientation (and yes, you do have one at 13. Whichever one it is) made them social outcasts.
They were perfectly capable of understanding that, and if they weren't a bunch of sociopaths they were also capable of enough empathy to know how that would make them feel.

It's almost like refusing to do a report on the Holocaust because you're racist.

Nah, a racist would do a report on the holocaust, just, a racist would glorify it.

Hardly. Being intolerant of intolerance does not make one a bigot, no matter how apologetists try to spin it.

If, of course, one is a moral absolutist who ignores all of the modern philosophers who remind us that morality is, indeed, subjective, and that we must build it ourselves. Of course, if one is an absolutist, one basically places oneself in the situation of being the mirror image of the hated "Conservative Christian", and becomes basically just as bad as they.

Nah, a racist would do a report on the holocaust, just, a racist would glorify it.

What Holocaust?

Point proven, sides clashing with no one about to give in to the other, who's to say who is the bigot and who isn't? Where is the unchanging moral standard?
You don't need a "moral standard" to define "bigot." You just need a dictionary.

Bigot (n): a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion; a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.

There are two sides to this debate. On one side, we have people claiming that a girl should be allowed to not do her homework because she believes Teh Gayz are wicked. On the other side, we have people saying that if a kid doesn't do her homework she shouldn't get credit for having done it.

This little girl's attitude is an example of bigotry. However, it is not bigotry to say that kids only get credit for doing homework if they, you know, do the homework. If this kid doesn't want to do the kind of work assigned at her school, she should attend a different school or be home schooled. Nobody will force her to attend that particular school, and nobody has forced her to do the assignment in question. They simply said that she can't get credit for work she didn't do. That's not bigotry, that's just fairness.

If, of course, one is a moral absolutist who ignores all of the modern philosophers who remind us that morality is, indeed, subjective, and that we must build it ourselves. Of course, if one is an absolutist, one basically places oneself in the situation of being the mirror image of the hated "Conservative Christian", and becomes basically just as bad as they.

Please be tolerant of my conservative Christian views

You've got some balls in saying that one my friend

yep. good luck. I agree though, and I couldn't care less if somebody called me a bigot. fuck it.

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.There is a green bottle on my desk.

See? I can spout irrelevant comments too, just like you! :)

You don't need a "moral standard" to define "bigot." You just need a dictionary.

Bigot (n): a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion; a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.



Congrats on everyone in the world and NS being a bigot

You don't need a "moral standard" to define "bigot." You just need a dictionary.

Bigot (n): a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion; a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.

Ironically, many of the people arguing that the girl is in the wrong, or should "take responsibility" for refusing to do an assignment that made her uncomfortable, also fit this definition.

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.

Huh? What's that got to do with the price of beans here??? Who said violence could ever be tolerated?

Huh? What's that got to do with the price of beans here??? Who said violence could ever be tolerated?

Violence as part of religious freedom somehow is!

Oh, she's got every right to her opinion. The problem here was that she refused to write about it in her assignment, and is presented as a martyr for that.
This little girl is no different from the pharmacists who expect to collect a paycheck even if they refuse to do their job dispensing medication. She wants to be given special treatment because of her opinions, and cries "bigotry" at anybody who tells her that she will be held to the same set of rules as all other students.

Hardly. Being intolerant of intolerance does not make one a bigot, no matter how apologetists try to spin it.
What Laerod said.

If, of course, one is a moral absolutist who ignores all of the modern philosophers who remind us that morality is, indeed, subjective, and that we must build it ourselves. Of course, if one is an absolutist, one basically places oneself in the situation of being the mirror image of the hated "Conservative Christian", and becomes basically just as bad as they.Consider it this way: If you're free to do anything, no one is free anymore. Same thing goes for tolerance. You can't tolerate everything without society becoming intolerant. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

Please be tolerant of my conservative Christian views

I'm tolerant of no one's views, not even my own! Espescially not my own.

Please be tolerant of my conservative Christian views
I'm quite tolerant of those. Until you start to try and impose them on other people.

That's the beauty of it. The "PC-people" say: "You have the choice! It's okay to do what you want!"

That is not imposing anything. It is explicitly leaving the choice to the individual.

Conservative Christians (and various other types) are saying: "You can't do this, because my moral sense of outrage has sprung into action!"

That is imposing something, you explicitly try to make the choice for the individual.

One could of course argue whether conservative Christian views could even exist without the "make others do as we feel is right" part, but it seems like it works for many millions of moderates out there. So give it a shot.

Consider it this way: If you're free to do anything, no one is free anymore. Same thing goes for tolerance. You can't tolerate everything without society becoming intolerant. You've got to draw the line somewhere.

I prefer an unchanging line not derived from flawed people

Violence as part of religious freedom somehow is!If I ever meet one of those, I'll be sure to be intolerant to them too. However, until I do, I'll have to deal with the people I run accross.

I do not disagree with the assignment in principle. I do not think the girl had a valid reason for refusing it. But I do not think the assignment was given to the right age group.

When was the last time you were actually in a school? Sexual issues like abortion, STDs are talked about very frequently, if not in a class then in the lunchroom. The problem is critical thinking needs to be taught at a very YOUNG age, so these tools can be used so that when a person reaches the age of understanding, they already have those tools to use. To aquire these skills requires you to argue points and positions you may or may not believe or fully understand. As someone said before, its called learning. Its not important that you talk to a serial murderer before doing a debate on the death penalty.Or that you have an extistential belief of death. Its important that the kids learn how to use the library or other resources to look up viewpoint X and incorperate it into an arguement of thier own and learing how to express this view to another group of people etc. Learning to agrue both sides of an arguement is a CRITICAL skill and simply cant be learned unless you actually do it.

I prefer an unchanging line not derived from flawed peopleGood luck with that. You won't find any unflawed people.

Tries wot experience moreal outreag!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Wow, I"m tiwarddddddddd.

Violence as part of religious freedom somehow is!
What the hell? You were saying we should somehow tolerate intolerant people, and now you're pissed at society for being tolerant of violent Muslims? :confused: Whose puppet are you?

Congrats on everyone in the world and NS being a bigot

I think you've got a little problem defining "tolerance".

It doesn't mean agreeing with something, it means accepting differing opinions. And it's limited by the Golden Rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity), of course.

Good luck with that. You won't find any unflawed people.

Exactly, I don't get my line from people

Ironically, many of the people arguing that the girl is in the wrong, or should "take responsibility" for refusing to do an assignment that made her uncomfortable, also fit this definition.
Which, if you really want to stretch the definition that far, would make those individuals "bigoted" against lack of personal responsibility or laziness, NOT against the religious beliefs of the girl in question. So she's still not the victim of religious bigotry or "anti-Christian" persecution.

I don't give a flying fuck what that girl happens to believe about fags. I've been hated by far scarier people than little 13 year old girls who don't do their homework. I simply think that every student should be treated equally, and equally held to the rules and requirements of their school. If you want to call that "bigotry," you go right ahead. :D

Exactly, I don't get my line from peopleYou'd be surprised...

I prefer an unchanging line not derived from flawed people

There's no such thing.

Exactly, I don't get my line from people

Oh, but you do.

There's no such thing.

Hence, God. What a concept! A holy, unflawed, loving, omniscient being.

I don't give a flying fuck what that girl happens to believe about fags. Oh, but it isn't that she believes things about them, she doesn't believe in them.

The problem is critical thinking needs to be taught at a very YOUNG age, so these tools can be used so that when a person reaches the age of understanding, they already have those tools to use.
So teach them critical thinking on issues they are in a decent position to understand, and then come back later when they are in a decent position to understand sexuality and have them apply their critical thinking skills then

Its important that the kids learn how to use the library or other resources to look up viewpoint X and incorperate it into an arguement of thier own and learing how to express this view to another group of people etc. Learning to agrue both sides of an arguement is a CRITICAL skill and simply cant be learned unless you actually do it.
So have them research and argue points they have a decent grasp of.

Hence, God. What a concept! A holy, unflawed, loving, omniscient being.Does he talk to you often? Or do you derive his advice from flawed people?

Hence, God. What a concept! A holy, unflawed, loving, omniscient being.

Invented by flawed humans.

Invented by flawed humans.

Bring on the narrow mindedness!

Exactly, I don't get my line from people
Except of course your preachers. Who get it from their preachers. Who get it from a book. Which was written, rewritten and re-rewritten time and time again over thousands of years by people with all sorts of political and economic agendas.

In other words, even if god exists, and even if he sent a set of messages to earth to guide us...this message has invariably been so corrupted that one is better off listening to one's reason than accept what these preachers will tell us.

Face it - if god exists, it exists within us, and there alone. All religions are corrupted by man.

Hence, God. What a concept! A holy, unflawed, loving, omniscient being.

What? You know the word of Beer too! Hooray! Yay! All praise be too beer!

I don't give a flying fuck what that girl happens to believe about fags.

whow about a driving or walking fuck? what about a fuck taking a train? :D

Does he talk to you often? Or do you derive his advice from flawed people?

Quite often, little book called the Bible, been around for thousands of years, it's all there.

Bring on the narrow mindedness!

Says the guy who thinks there's a single god out there and he's always right? :p

Except of course your preachers. Who get it from their preachers. Who get it from a book. Which was written, rewritten and re-rewritten time and time again over thousands of years by people with all sorts of political and economic agendas.

In other words, even if god exists, and even if he sent a set of messages to earth to guide us...this message has invariably been so corrupted that one is better off listening to one's reason than accept what these preachers will tell us.

Face it - if god exists, it exists within us, and there alone. All religions are corrupted by man.

Yea, because God would allow his words to be changed like that, whatever god that is seems mighty weak. Not my God.

Quite often, little book called the Bible, been around for thousands of years, it's all there.Written by flawed humans. Inspired by God, perhaps, but you personally derive it from the priests, prophets, and disciples that wrote it, and they are human and therefore flawed.

Quite often, little book called the Bible, been around for thousands of years, it's all there.

Rape, inscest, patricide, fratricide, genocide, pillage, theft, fraud... everything condoned by the great moral authority that is called god in that little book. ;)

whow about a driving or walking fuck? what about a fuck taking a train? :D
I would prefer that the fuck either walk or take mass-transit, as there is currently an energy crisis in my nation. However, if the fuck chooses to drive I will still respect it as the fuck that it is.

Yea, because God would allow his words to be changed like that, whatever god that is seems mighty weak. Not my God.If that was true, there would be no book of Mormon.

Once again a debate on morals has boiled down to the existance of God. You all have fun with that. I'll stick to my "narrow minded" "bigoted" views on life. Tootles!

So have them research and argue points they have a decent grasp of.

Go ask a group of 13 year olds to write a school debate on something of thier own choice. Ill bet you a weeks salary that 1/2 of the topics will include sexuality or death of some variation.

Yea, because God would allow his words to be changed like that, whatever god that is seems mighty weak. Not my God.

Ah, but how do you know he wouldn't allow it? Because that book says so? That book that definitely, irrefutably was written by humans and doesn't even claim otherwise itself, like the Quran does for example?

Quite often, little book called the Bible, been around for thousands of years, it's all there.
Yup, because it's in a book and it's an old book it must be true.

Yea, because God would allow his words to be changed like that, whatever god that is seems mighty weak. Not my God.
To test this i dug out a bible and erased some words and wrote "suckers" at the front.

Nothing seems to ahve happened yet...

Once again a debate on morals has boiled down to the existance of God. You all have fun with that. I'll stick to my "narrow minded" "bigoted" views on life. Tootles!

Buddy, you were the one who introduced the concept of god to the discussion in the first place.

Once again a debate on morals has boiled down to the existance of God. You all have fun with that. I'll stick to my "narrow minded" "bigoted" views on life. Tootles!Funny. It wasn't a debate on morals to begin with. It was a debate on whether a specific moral system can get you out of doing class assignments.

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.
Actually, that I happen to know many Muslims that wouldn't lift a finger and accept the people who said it to have different views. There is nothing written about "geting pissed" if you're a muslim and your religion is insulted. Nor does it say that in any other main-stream religion. "Getting pissed" is simply a human rection and should be delt with as a human reaction. Likewise is the original insult. If you don't agree with a religion or belief, fine, but nobody has any right to insult others beliefs.

By the way, I am a Christian, and two things stuck me about this:

1. Many of my feelow christians have bad feelings or beliefs that gays are wrongs when it comes to the matter. The bible apparently states it, but what many fail to take note of is the fact that the bible was written hundreds of years ago - not by God, but by men. Simple men who had their own beliefs and their own opinions. Therefore, Christians need to adapt to this modern world, and they can do this WHILE retaining the main beliefs of their religion. So, I don't agree with those who believe it.
2. The teacher never requested the student to BE gay, just to imagine it. It is sad to think that any beliefs restrict human imagination, as it was put there for a reason, whether by God or something else.

Also, I live in the UK. This whole situation seems stupid to me, as if anything like that incident happend over here would probably be laughed at and thrown out the window (hopefully along with the arrogant mother!!!). Some people really need to accept things... this is the 21st century... GET OVER IT!

Which, if you really want to stretch the definition that far, would make those individuals "bigoted" against lack of personal responsibility or laziness, NOT against the religious beliefs of the girl in question. So she's still not the victim of religious bigotry or "anti-Christian" persecution.

I don't give a flying fuck what that girl happens to believe about fags. I've been hated by far scarier people than little 13 year old girls who don't do their homework. I simply think that every student should be treated equally, and equally held to the rules and requirements of their school. If you want to call that "bigotry," you go right ahead. :D

I've already adressed this. The issue is not "Hate" or "Wrong and right". The issue is one of not putting a student in a threatening environment. We have a school system to prepare people to take part in a Democratic system and to teach them skills needed in the workplace and in society. However, the price of having a public school is that that school cannot put children into unfair or uncomfortable situation without very good reason, or the school loses its validity.

It would have been easy to give the girl an assignment which stressed the same ideas, but did not have her dealing with topic matter that made her uncomfortable; that this teacher did not is a sign of an inability to accept that they are not the moral absolute, or the last word.

Funny. It wasn't a debate on morals to begin with. It was a debate on whether a specific moral system can get you out of doing class assignments.

Just shows the spirit, doesn't it?
Make a claim you can't back up, and then leave when you find out people refuse to believe you just cause you say so. Those are the Christians I love :p

Yea, because God would allow his words to be changed like that, whatever god that is seems mighty weak. Not my God.
I thought that god left people to their free will? Afterall, what is the point of sin, repentance and forgiveness if we're all just tools of some divine puppet player?

We may not know how the Bible was written, nor do we know who exactly wrote it. But we do know that the book has for a thousand years been the exclusive domain of a priest class with extensive economic and political interests. I find it incomprehensible that during all the copying, interpreting and translating, often done in exchange for money from various earthly rulers, the exact original meaning should still be preserved. What your modern English Bible says is likely to be quite different from whatever the original writings in Ancient Greek may have been - even if no human has ever maliciously tampered with it, simply because the two languages are so different that meanings and nuances will invariably get lost or change during translation.

You may be Christian, but you aren't stupid.

I would prefer that the fuck either walk or take mass-transit, as there is currently an energy crisis in my nation. However, if the fuck chooses to drive I will still respect it as the fuck that it is.

good answer. energy crisis? maybe I could help?

Which makes the assignment even dumber. It's not as though gay people are totally alone and never ever get to have sex...

The issue is to teach tolerance and to understand living as a minority, not to imagine a life of abstinance...

"Imagine you are a member of the Ud-rse-treq tribe from South America, write about your experiences living amoung the El-Trong majority and how it feels"

Make much sense? Able to write about that? Know what it feels like to be an US-rse-treq? Know what the El-Trongs do to them? Able to even begin to write about how they two groups relate?

Or would any reply simply be an uninformed guess about how it feels to be a memeber of either group?

If someone does not know their own sexuality then asking them about others is a bit stupid.

I disagree with her reason for not doing the coursework, but that does not mean I have to agreew ith the coursework to start with.

I think give this sort of thing to kids when they have the maturity and understanding to give a non-mickey-mouse answer.

I think the coursework was fine. Kids should be enlightened on how it feels to be different before they grow up not caring.

When you're gay and in school, you'll have a crush on people you can't have relationships with, and most are afraid to even admit they're gay, much less ask someone out, for fear of getting the shit kicked out of them (rightly so, it wouldn't be the first time it happened). You might as well be abstinant for that period of your life unless you know for a fact who is and who isn't gay, which you won't, and even then you don't know if that person will want to go out with you.

Once again a debate on morals has boiled down to the existance of God.
Well, you made it that, didn't you. By claiming that you can derive an absolute morality from god, you pretty much asked us to respond the way we did.

I've already adressed this. The issue is not "Hate" or "Wrong and right". The issue is one of not putting a student in a threatening environment. We have a school system to prepare people to take part in a Democratic system and to teach them skills needed in the workplace and in society. However, the price of having a public school is that that school cannot put children into unfair or uncomfortable situation without very good reason, or the school loses its validity.

It would have been easy to give the girl an assignment which stressed the same ideas, but did not have her dealing with topic matter that made her uncomfortable; that this teacher did not is a sign of an inability to accept that they are not the moral absolute, or the last word.

Hey, Maths and Latin used to make me feel extremely uncomfortable. To the point of nervous breakdowns before exams, actually. That's no reason that I should have been assigned Creative Beadstringing instead...

So teach them critical thinking on issues they are in a decent position to understand, and then come back later when they are in a decent position to understand sexuality and have them apply their critical thinking skills then


So have them research and argue points they have a decent grasp of.

If you limit yourself to teaching things your students already understand, you don't teach anything new. Part of this assignment was critical thinking and part of it was introduction to new viewpoints. This is the sort of thing kids will have to deal with in real life, forming their own viewpoints about issues they've never thought about before, and a lot more useful to the students than an exercise in mental regurgitation.

I think the coursework was fine. Kids should be enlightened on how it feels to be different before they grow up not caring.

When you're gay and in school, you'll have a crush on people you can't have relationships with, and most are afraid to even admit they're gay, much less ask someone out, for fear of getting the shit kicked out of them (rightly so, it wouldn't be the first time it happened). You might as well be abstinant for that period of your life unless you know for a fact who is and who isn't gay, which you won't, and even then you don't know if that person will want to go out with you.That's not necessarily that different from what some heterosexuals have to cope with in school, except for the getting the shit kicked out of them bit. ;)

That's not necessarily that different from what some heterosexuals have to cope with in school, except for the getting the shit kicked out of them bit. ;)
No, I think the getting the shit kicked out of them bit is perfectly applicable :( :p

That's not necessarily that different from what some heterosexuals have to cope with in school, except for the getting the shit kicked out of them bit. ;)

how so? heterosexuals can get their shit kick out of them, also by girls.

Hey, Maths and Latin used to make me feel extremely uncomfortable. To the point of nervous breakdowns before exams, actually. That's no reason that I should have been assigned Creative Beadstringing instead...

No, but they made you uncomfortable for a good reason: because they were making you work hard.

This was not a case of making the student uncomfortable for a good reason. It was making them uncomfortable because it was confronting and attacking what they saw as correct and right. If you are entitled to your opinion, so are they, and they should not have their opinions threatened in school. Neither should you.

The student should have been offered an alternative assignment which did not make them feel threatened. It would not have hurt anyone to do so.

so just because something is against my belief, I can refuse do it, nevermind. the fact that, that opinions is biased toward OTHER opinions? bullshit.

people shouldn't try to change a view that homosexuality is a perversion, just because it is an opinion (and based in a culture)?

We seem to be reading different threads - the one I'm reading had a brat who didn't want to imagine being different than everyone else, being in someone else's shoes. She, more than anyone else in that class, needed to do that assignment.

She was never asked to BE gay or even to IMAGINE she was gay - she was asked to imagine that she was different in sexual orientation. To feel the way gay people feel in our society.

No, I think the getting the shit kicked out of them bit is perfectly applicable :( :p

wjo so? heterosexuals can get their shit kick out of them, also by girls.I stand corrected then.

wjo so? heterosexuals can get their shit kick out of them, also by girls.

Have you been beaten up for being heterosexual before, then?

I think the coursework was fine. Kids should be enlightened on how it feels to be different before they grow up not caring.
What ywould you feel would be the minimum age a child is capeable of doing this assignment. Out of curiosity?

When you're gay and in school, you'll have a crush on people you can't have relationships with, and most are afraid to even admit they're gay, much less ask someone out, for fear of getting the shit kicked out of them (rightly so, it wouldn't be the first time it happened). You might as well be abstinant for that period of your life unless you know for a fact who is and who isn't gay, which you won't, and even then you don't know if that person will want to go out with you.
the average age most kids stop being abstinant in the UK is about 16, and really very few by the age of 13 have quit abstinance. I am not sure how relevent looking at absinance amoung a group who are almost all virgins is really relevent, regardless of the reasons for them being abstinant. (Abstinance being used in the context "you may as well be abstinant")

I've already adressed this. The issue is not "Hate" or "Wrong and right". The issue is one of not putting a student in a threatening environment.

Fuck that. Good education is very "threatening" at times. Good education requires critical thinking. Good education is not about swaddling kids in some protective nest; it's about introducing them to the world as it really is. The world contains a lot of uncomfortable shit, and we do not do our children any service by insulating and isolating them from it.

Part of a good education includes how to deal with the world we live in. This little girl is going to encounter fags. She probably has encountered some already, whether she knows it or not. She's at the start of puberty, and so are her peers. She's going to be around fags. She's going to have to deal with them. It would be a failure of education to not teach her a damn thing about relating to gay people until she's already sitting in classes with them.


We have a school system to prepare people to take part in a Democratic system and to teach them skills needed in the workplace and in society. However, the price of having a public school is that that school cannot put children into unfair or uncomfortable situation without very good reason, or the school loses its validity.

Again, screw that. I agree that schools shouldn't put kids into an "unfair" system, which is why I don't think this little girl should be given special treatment because she doesn't like gay people. However, school is going to be uncomfortable. Studying is hard. Learning is hard. Many important subjects are extremely uncomfortable. That doesn't mean we should shrink from teaching them...quite the opposite!


It would have been easy to give the girl an assignment which stressed the same ideas, but did not have her dealing with topic matter that made her uncomfortable; that this teacher did not is a sign of an inability to accept that they are not the moral absolute, or the last word.
No, this teacher simply refused to give special treatment to one student who didn't want to do her assignment. Teachers are not obligated to make sure that every single student is ideally "comfortable" with every assignment. Indeed, the students who most need to do assignments like the one in question are the kids who are "uncomfortable" with them. That was the whole damn point. To make the kids stretch themselves and think about a tough topic.

It's not helpful to let kids believe the world is flat simply because it's harder to understand latitude and longitude. It's not helpful to let them carry on with rude behavior simply because they are made uncomfortable by dicipline and codes of appropriate behavior. It's not helpful to let them wear diapers until Junior High just because they're uncomfortable with potty training.

School is about teaching kids what's what in the real world. Sometimes that is uncomfortable. Such is life.

We seem to be reading different threads - the one I'm reading had a brat who didn't want to imagine being different than everyone else, being in someone else's shoes. She, more than anyone else in that class, needed to do that assignment.

She was never asked to BE gay or even to IMAGINE she was gay - she was asked to imagine that she was different in sexual orientation. To feel the way gay people feel in our society.

exactly. I agree with you.

Don't discuss it with people who might know about some of the issues, in class, write about how you feel.

To write about how you feel you must have understanding which is VERY different from knowledge.

Give this to kids old enough to understand sexuality and you'll have a useful assugnment. Give it to kids who aren't and you ahve a bunk assignment that will teach them little.

I do not disagree with the assignment in principle. I do not think the girl had a valid reason for refusing it. But I do not think the assignment was given to the right age group.

Oh how naiive. There's a fair chance she knows what sexuality she is. In fact, she's probably acted on it in some way or another by then. Whether by kissing or otherwise, she knows what sexuality is. Don't be stupid.

No, but they made you uncomfortable for a good reason: because they were making you work hard.

This was not a case of making the student uncomfortable for a good reason. It was making them uncomfortable because it was confronting and attacking what they saw as correct and right. If you are entitled to your opinion, so are they, and they should not have their opinions threatened in school. Neither should you.

The student should have been offered an alternative assignment which did not make them feel threatened. It would not have hurt anyone to do so.

And that was exactly the point. School should teach you to think. And in order to do so, it has to attack things that you believe without questioning.
She didn't have her opinion threatened because she didn't give her opinion. The assignment didn't ask her to defend homosexuality, it didn't even ask her to consider homosexual lifestyle. It simply asked her to reflect on how she would feel if roles were reveresed.
And she refused.
Refusing to think about something is a very, very valid reason to fail someone at school in my opinion.

Heaven forbid that a child should learn what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.

The exercise was created in an attempt to show the children what prejudice against minorities, whether racial, religious, or sexual, can do.

And if she gets away with it, what's to keep kids from saying "I do not believe in doing schoolwork outside of school. It is against my religion."

This just furthers my theory that the south and north should secede from each other. We take all the bigoted morons and toss them in the south and watch them kill each other, while we here in the north enjoy a new age of enlightenment. I mean, there's simply no dealing with these people!

I've already adressed this. The issue is not "Hate" or "Wrong and right". The issue is one of not putting a student in a threatening environment. We have a school system to prepare people to take part in a Democratic system and to teach them skills needed in the workplace and in society. However, the price of having a public school is that that school cannot put children into unfair or uncomfortable situation without very good reason, or the school loses its validity.

It would have been easy to give the girl an assignment which stressed the same ideas, but did not have her dealing with topic matter that made her uncomfortable; that this teacher did not is a sign of an inability to accept that they are not the moral absolute, or the last word.

So challenging bigoted thinking is no longer a very good reason? How safe or comfortable do you think any gay students or relatives of gay individuals in that class felt when she aired her views? Who should we be fairer to, the bigot or the bigot's targets?

As for the rest, school is a place to prepare you for the real world. In the real world, gay people exist. What is she going to do when she finally meets a gay person, say, "I don't believe in you," put her hands over her ears and run away screaming "lalalalalala!"?

I've already adressed this. The issue is not "Hate" or "Wrong and right". The issue is one of not putting a student in a threatening environment. We have a school system to prepare people to take part in a Democratic system and to teach them skills needed in the workplace and in society. However, the price of having a public school is that that school cannot put children into unfair or uncomfortable situation without very good reason, or the school loses its validity.

It would have been easy to give the girl an assignment which stressed the same ideas, but did not have her dealing with topic matter that made her uncomfortable; that this teacher did not is a sign of an inability to accept that they are not the moral absolute, or the last word.

How can a child be prepared for the real world without being exposed to uncomfortable positions? Teachers are not under any imperative to make sure their students are comfortable with their assignments, nor should they be. As you said, the students are being prepared for life in a Democratic society and life in a society as ours exposes people to uncomfortable subjects almost daily. The teacher wasn't asking his students to visit gay people or to live in a gay community, he was just asking them to attempt a thought experiment. If a student can't even think about an uncomfortable subject, then how will they learn to face them in real life outside of school?

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.

With this post you have proven yourself to be a stereotypical, generalizing, bigoted, asshole bastard who can't see past his own nose. You've lost the right to be dealt with by logic, and now you face the wrath of KHHAAAAAAAAAN!

Hey, Maths and Latin used to make me feel extremely uncomfortable. To the point of nervous breakdowns before exams, actually. That's no reason that I should have been assigned Creative Beadstringing instead...
I felt very uncomfortable reading 1984 in English Lit. I got really squigged out by The Things They Carried, as well. My Comparative Religions course included a lot of material I strongly disagreed with and did not feel comfortable with. Hell, my biology class included information I didn't like and didn't want to hear about, and I'm a professional biologist now!

If you limit yourself to teaching things your students already understand, you don't teach anything new.

Ok... rephrase... teach them critical thinking in subjects they are capeable of doing critical thinking, based on their maturity, understanding and life experience. Or all you'll get out of them is empty words.

Particulary when the thinking is about themselves, when they have not yet worked themselves out yet.

What would be the minimum age you would think a child is capeable of taking on such an assignment btw?

I felt very uncomfortable reading 1984 in English Lit. I got really squigged out by The Things They Carried, as well. My Comparative Religions course included a lot of material I strongly disagreed with and did not feel comfortable with. Hell, my biology class included information I didn't like and didn't want to hear about, and I'm a professional biologist now!

It's still best that you read the novel 1984. It -should- be required reading.

Heaven forbid that a child should learn what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.

The exercise was created in an attempt to show the children what prejudice against minorities, whether racial, religious, or sexual, can do.

And if she gets away with it, what's to keep kids from saying "I do not believe in doing schoolwork outside of school. It is against my religion."

This just furthers my theory that the south and north should secede from each other. We take all the bigoted morons and toss them in the south and watch them kill each other, while we here in the north enjoy a new age of enlightenment. I mean, there's simply no dealing with these people!
It's in Australia, not America :p

I prefer an unchanging line not derived from flawed people

KHHAAAAAAAAAN!!!

Ok... rephrase... teach them critical thinking in subjects they are capeable of doing critical thinking, based on their maturity, understanding and life experience. Or all you'll get out of them is empty words.

Particulary when the thinking is about themselves, when they have not yet worked themselves out yet.
13 years old is more than old enough to understand that assignment. My 5th grade sex-ed class included several assignments similar to that one, and nobody freaked out. 5th grade usually means the kids are about 10-11 years old.

Frankly, if you really are claiming that 13 year old kids don't know enough about sex and human relationships to understand what "gay" and "straight" are, then I think you're making a very convincing argument for expanding our sex ed courses in grade schools. I knew what "homosexual" was before I was even in kindergarten. I attended grade school with a set of twin boys who had two mommies. Kids knew about sex long before middle school, and long before most of us really knew whether or not we were interested in it.

Kids know more than you seem to credit them with.

It's in Australia, not America :p

Oh sweet Jesus.

I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN US!

Have you been beaten up for being heterosexual before, then?

no but I have been beaten for being a cripple, close enough?

Heaven forbid that a child should learn what it's like to be in someone else's shoes.

The exercise was created in an attempt to show the children what prejudice against minorities, whether racial, religious, or sexual, can do.

And if she gets away with it, what's to keep kids from saying "I do not believe in doing schoolwork outside of school. It is against my religion."

This just furthers my theory that the south and north should secede from each other. We take all the bigoted morons and toss them in the south and watch them kill each other, while we here in the north enjoy a new age of enlightenment. I mean, there's simply no dealing with these people!Are north and south Australia that radically different from eachother? :confused:

Exactly, I don't get my line from people

KHHAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!

Ok... rephrase... teach them critical thinking in subjects they are capeable of doing critical thinking, based on their maturity, understanding and life experience. Or all you'll get out of them is empty words.

Particulary when the thinking is about themselves, when they have not yet worked themselves out yet.

Opinions grow along with people. When I was 10, I believed that abortion was wrong, and I could have written you an assignment lisiting all my reasons.
Today, I think it's everybody's choice whether to abort or not. I still don't think it's ok, and I refuse to see it as a means of contraception, but with the additional information and insight I gathered over the years, my stance on the issue has changed. That doesn't invalidate the opinion I had on it when I was 10, though.
Give those kids a little more credit... they've worked out more than you seem to think.

Ok... rephrase... teach them critical thinking in subjects they are capeable of doing critical thinking, based on their maturity, understanding and life experience. Or all you'll get out of them is empty words.

Particulary when the thinking is about themselves, when they have not yet worked themselves out yet.

In that sort of situation, you run the risk of needing to create different assignments for different students. I know I was thinking about issues like homosexuality at that age, and thinking about discrimination in general. Some other students of that age certainly aren't thinking about those kind of issues, but which students do you use as a measure to decide the maturity level orlife experience of the class? The kids who have been educated about these issues early on, or the ones that haven't been exposed to it yet?

This just furthers my theory that the south and north should secede from each other. We take all the bigoted morons and toss them in the south and watch them kill each other, while we here in the north enjoy a new age of enlightenment. I mean, there's simply no dealing with these people!

Does the fact you assumed this was in the US indicate a prejudiced and bigoted view of southerners?

Are north and south Australia that radically different from eachother? :confused:

Yes, I have been pwnt.

Haha, let's all laugh at GR.

It's still best that you read the novel 1984. It -should- be required reading.

Why read 1984 when you can just read The Patriot Act? Its way scarier!

Oh, but it isn't that she believes things about them, she doesn't believe in them.

Wow I wish my imagination was that good...

Once again a debate on morals has boiled down to the existance of God. You all have fun with that. I'll stick to my "narrow minded" "bigoted" views on life. Tootles!

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOTLLLLEESSSS!!

duuh duh duh duh duh, da duh, da duh!

Can't touch this!

I'm going to spam this thread until you all pay attention to my desperate cries for attention!

no but I have been beaten for being a cripple, close enough?

And I've been beaten for being fat. The point is, we got beaten because we were different.

13 years old is more than old enough to understand that assignment. My 5th grade sex-ed class included several assignments similar to that one, and nobody freaked out. 5th grade usually means the kids are about 10-11 years old.
I asked what age would be too young, not if 13 was ok. There is a difference.

What would be the minimum age a child should do such an assignment?

That's not necessarily that different from what some heterosexuals have to cope with in school, except for the getting the shit kicked out of them bit. ;)

Which is one of the biggest factors. =P

Bring on the narrow mindedness!

Too late, you already brought it.

I asked what age would be too young, not if 13 was ok. There is a difference.

What would be the minimum age a child should do such an assignment?The age in which they are still to young to be able to write?

What ywould you feel would be the minimum age a child is capeable of doing this assignment. Out of curiosity?

the average age most kids stop being abstinant in the UK is about 16, and really very few by the age of 13 have quit abstinance. I am not sure how relevent looking at absinance amoung a group who are almost all virgins is really relevent, regardless of the reasons for them being abstinant. (Abstinance being used in the context "you may as well be abstinant")

Minimum age? 12ish, right around the time they discover people of the sex they're attracted to don't have cooties.

I asked what age would be too young, not if 13 was ok. There is a difference.

What would be the minimum age a child should do such an assignment?

I'd say it should be part of sex ed. So as soon as that starts, assignments like these are ok. Before that, you can't be certain that the kids know about sexuality, or have all the information they need.

If the assignment wasn't asking her to promote homosexuality, then why did she have a problem with it, even if she does hate gay people? I love writing assignments where I can argue against a tutor's view of a subject (which is perfectly valid as long as it's backed up with references from other sources and is written academically). I don't get why she wouldn't want to write it just to have a chance to put her own views down on paper.

The age in which they are still to young to be able to write?

So... a 7 year old is capeable of writing about sexuality?

(just picking any age when a kid can be expected to write a bit)

If the assignment wasn't asking her to promote homosexuality, then why did she have a problem with it, even if she does hate gay people? I love writing assignments where I can argue against a tutor's view of a subject (which is perfectly valid as long as it's backed up with references from other sources and is written academically). I don't get why she wouldn't want to write it just to have a chance to put her own views down on paper.

She was dodging work.

I asked what age would be too young, not if 13 was ok. There is a difference.

What would be the minimum age a child should do such an assignment?
Well, most kids in American schools can't write fluently until at least 2nd grade, so I'd say that this written assignment probably shouldn't be given until then.

So... a 7 year old is capeable of writing about sexuality?

(just picking any age when a kid can be expected to write a bit)Sexuality? It's more an assignment about living in a world where you're in a minority, isn't it?

Too late, you already brought it.
"Oh, I already brought it, put in on the table, and opened it, bitch!"

:D

If the assignment wasn't asking her to promote homosexuality, then why did she have a problem with it, even if she does hate gay people? I love writing assignments where I can argue against a tutor's view of a subject (which is perfectly valid as long as it's backed up with references from other sources and is written academically). I don't get why she wouldn't want to write it just to have a chance to put her own views down on paper.

I'll take a wild guess - because she wasn't able to back them up, and would have been forced to think about her believes.

So... a 7 year old is capeable of writing about sexuality?

(just picking any age when a kid can be expected to write a bit)
Sure. Of course, only if that kid has been taught what sexuality is...they can't very well write about a subject that they've never been introduced to. You can't test before the material is taught. :D

I'd say it should be part of sex ed. So as soon as that starts, assignments like these are ok. Before that, you can't be certain that the kids know about sexuality, or have all the information they need.

In the UK sex ed tends to start before the vast majority of kids have begun to really hit puberty. It's like to catch the odd 12 year old who is more mature before she goes out and gets pregnant and hope the rest remember enough for later on.

duuh duh duh duh duh, da duh, da duh!

Can't touch this!

I'm going to spam this thread until you all pay attention to my desperate cries for attention!

<3 Andy Lucy! :p

In the UK sex ed tends to start before the vast majority of kids have begun to really hit puberty. It's like to catch the odd 12 year old who is more mature before she goes out and gets pregnant and hope the rest remember enough for later on.

Well, when I went to school in Germany, sex ed started at age 10. Perfectly all right in my opinion, and once you've learned about the technical bits, you can discuss the implications orientation, pregnancy, etc might have on someone's life.

Sexuality? It's more an assignment about living in a world where you're in a minority, isn't it?

IT's about living in a world where you're a minority because of your sexuality.

Well, when I went to school in Germany, sex ed started at age 10. Perfectly all right in my opinion, and once you've learned about the technical bits, you can discuss the implications orientation, pregnancy, etc might have on someone's life.
I'm honestly shocked that there are 10 year olds who don't know basic sex ed. I learnt the names for "penis" and "vagina" at the same time as "nose" and "elbow." I knew about sex at the same age I knew about how your body makes the food you eat turn into poo. I don't see why so many people think that kids can't grasp these concepts. I wasn't a very bright kid, but I understood it just fine.

Sure. Of course, only if that kid has been taught what sexuality is...they can't very well write about a subject that they've never been introduced to. You can't test before the material is taught. :D

If you are taught what sexuality is can you know what it feels like or do you have to find that out for yourself?

"Oh, I already brought it, put in on the table, and opened it, bitch!"

:D

Lmao. Wow there seem to be alot of Aussie's on this forum.

If you are taught what sexuality is can you know what it feels like or do you have to find that out for yourself?
Some things you won't be able to fully understand until you're older. Some feelings you may never share; people experience sexuality differently, which is why every student will submit a different essay for that assignment. If the same assignment were given to a bunch of college kids, they'd also all give different answers, because they'd all have "found out" different things about sexuality from their personal experience.

Moreover, the whole point of the assignment is to empathize with what you are NOT. I will never be black, so does that mean I am incapable of doing an assignment imagining what it would be like to be an ethnic minority? I had honestly never encountered racism, of any kind, until I was well into high school, yet I somehow was able to understand the concept and empathize with people who were victims of racism even though I had never "found out" about racism through personal experience.

Why read 1984 when you can just read The Patriot Act? Its way scarier!

You know what's really bum about the Patriot Act? Not the authoritarian bits, but the policy implementation is fundamentally flawed. It's pretty much the drug laws that were written in the seventies and eighties, with the words pertaining to drugs whited out, and replaced with terrorism. It's an incredibly ill-thought out policy, and is shockingly poorly designed.

Is it the job of school to "politicize" children? On one hand, a child's education should be unbiased and should not force political views on them, whether those views are coming from a government funded, public school or a private one. On the other hand, though, if the schools don't politicize children, who will? I think it is safe to say that a good deal of adults do not educate themselves thoroughly in politics, so how can we expect children to be educated, then? Parents, also, are going to be just as biased as, if not more biased than, the schools. Perhaps it is the parents' right to decide what their children are exposed to, but if they are limited like that, then is Democracy truly at work? If children are given no example of how to broaden their views and educate themselves, if they are even remotely discouraged from it, then what happens to the next generation?

Moreover, the whole point of the assignment is to empathize with what you are NOT. I will never be black, so does that mean I am incapable of doing an assignment imagining what it would be like to be an ethnic minority? I had honestly never encountered racism, of any kind, until I was well into high school, yet I somehow was able to understand the concept and empathize with people who were victims of racism even though I had never "found out" about racism through personal experience.
Personally I have a lot of experience as an ethnic minority. I know many people who *think* they can imagine what it is like, but when you talk to them often they have the basics, but not the feeling. They know it must feel bad when people go after you because you are in the minority, but they don't have an understanding *how* it feels, what really feels bad about it ow how it affects their life.

Personally I have a lot of experience as an ethnic minority. I know many people who *think* they can imagine what it is like, but when you talk to them often they have the basics, but not the feeling. They know it must feel bad when people go after you because you are in the minority, but they don't have an understanding *how* it feels, what really feels bad about it ow how it affects their life.
Of course there are limits to empathy! I will never know what it really feels like to be an elderly Jewish man, or a black teen mom, or a Russian ex-patriot, or a whole host of other things. But that doesn't mean that exercises in imagination and empathy are worthless.

We cannot directly share the experiences of our fellow humans, and none of us can completely understand what it really is like to be somebody else. The fact that we try, and that we allow ourselves to gain perspective through trying, is what is important.

Personally I have a lot of experience as an ethnic minority. I know many people who *think* they can imagine what it is like, but when you talk to them often they have the basics, but not the feeling. They know it must feel bad when people go after you because you are in the minority, but they don't have an understanding *how* it feels, what really feels bad about it ow how it affects their life.

They make the effort, however. I'll never fully understand what it's like to be black, the same way I'll never fully understand what it's like to be homosexual, or male, or someone who understands Maths... but I can at least try. And I can adjust my behaviour to try not to offend people.

Reading through this thread is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

So... a 7 year old is capeable of writing about sexuality?

(just picking any age when a kid can be expected to write a bit)
No....but discuss about it yes (essay writing 7 year olds?). Though, it wouldn't be about personal sexuality but about the attitudes and information the parents have passed on to children that age - If any (probably not, and asking about it would be treading on extremely unsafe ground).

In this case, a 13/14 year old is old enough to consider homosexuality - partly because popular culture (read: TV) has made the phenomenon known - and implications of being straight among queers, especially as in that age group most people start thinking about their own sexuality and its targets.

The excercise was good IF it was followed by discussion based on replies the teacher got: An excellent opportunity to teach students not to fear or hate people who are different.

Also, IMO sexuality is much better tool in teaching about minorities and prejudice than race because you can't tell (with exceptions) sexuality from the way a person looks or behaves and the fact that sexuality is something each and everyone has to personally face...usually long before their first actual sexual experience.

No....but discuss about it yes (essay writing 7 year olds?). Essay != writing assignment. I was writing things for school back when I was 5.

And I've been beaten for being fat. The point is, we got beaten because we were different.

exactly, that was my point.

Essay != writing assignment. I was writing things for school back when I was 5.

I remember the days when writing assignments were only expected to be one sentence long. Good times.

What do you bet she that she would'nt have had a problem doing a paper on rape, torture, genocide, or any other truly offensive act? :headbang:

What do you bet she that she would'nt have had a problem doing a paper on rape, torture, genocide, or any other truly offensive act? :headbang:

I wonder if we could somehow get those things on the cirriculum and find out.

Props to the young lady and her parents.

And how revealing that the out-of-control PC ideologues running the school system intended to keep parents from learning of their efforts to indoctrinate impressionable young minds with the notion that homosexuality is equivalent to, and interchangeable with, heterosexuality.

One can only wonder how many other students were flunked or were given lowered grades for expressing any opinion other than slavish acceptance of the prevailing orthodoxy, "tolerance", i.e., approval, of the homosexual lifestyle choice.

Public education systems throughout the Western world unfortunately seem attract people whose goal in life is to remake society according to their PC agenda. Captive audiences of children are ideal for this purpose. The result is generation after generation of intellectual paralytics who regurgitate the party line under threat to their future access to higher education.

This incident is just further evidence that public education systems (at least under university level) must either be purged and re-constituted to focus on reading, writing, science and other substantive matters, or, better yet, abolished and replaced with independent private schools.

Props to the young lady and her parents.

And how revealing that the out-of-control PC ideologues running the school system intended to keep parents from learning of their efforts to indoctrinate impressionable young minds with the notion that homosexuality is equivalent to, and interchangeable with, heterosexuality.

One can only wonder how many other students were flunked or were given lowered grades for expressing any opinion other than slavish acceptance of the prevailing orthodoxy, "tolerance", i.e., approval, of the homosexual lifestyle choice.

Public education systems throughout the Western world unfortunately seem attract people whose goal in life is to remake society according to their PC agenda. Captive audiences of children are ideal for this purpose. The result is generation after generation of intellectual paralytics who regurgitate the party line under threat to their future access to higher education.

This incident is just further evidence that public education systems (at least under university level) must either be purged and re-constituted to focus on reading, writing, science and other substantive matters, or, better yet, abolished and replaced with independent private schools.

do you actually believe that? :confused:

do you actually believe that? :confused:

He's most likely just a troll.

He's most likely just a troll.
He certainly talks like one. I mean, come on, "PC Agenda"? That was an old refrain in 1988! Even the modern-day wingnuts have gotten tired of that one. Now it's the "Liberal Agenda," or "Multiculturalism" or "anti-Values Agenda."

I'm not proud to admit it, but I was once a homophobe. Meeting someone who was gay changed all that. Hopefully one day this student, too, will see the light.

The girl refused to do an assignment … they were not asking her to go against her beliefs, as far as I can tell they were not trying to change her beliefs. She did not do the work and she deserves the grades she got.

I had to write a paper on bush’s government for class even though I detest the fucker … but I DID the assignment

Agreed. Well said.

The girl refused to do an assignment … they were not asking her to go against her beliefs, as far as I can tell they were not trying to change her beliefs. She did not do the work and she deserves the grades she got.

I had to write a paper on bush’s government for class even though I detest the fucker … but I DID the assignment

When you're assigned something, you do it. If you have a problem with it, you talk to the teacher prior to the due date and see if there is something else you can do. This girl refused to do her assignment and did not try to change it prior to the due date...she simply refused to do the assignment, and deserves to fail like any other student would.

There's no difference between this and not doing it because you don't feel like it...it's just irresponsibility and nothing more.

I may be a little too biased by the American School System here, but I think that she was fully within reason to say "Hey, I'm not writing this", or, alternatively, to respond by writing exactly what the teacher didn't want. If a teacher gives a Bullshit assignment, we're expected to say "Hey, that's outside of your authority."


If the teacher had given a bullshit asignment that was outside their authority you would have an argument there.

Has everyone forgotten about how extremely pissed Muslims become if anything "bad" is said about their great prophet? Actually they get a little violent (HUGE understatement). Of course we should be tolerant of them, though.

I think i lked you better when you were posting as Deep Kimchi. :D

I'm not proud to admit it, but I was once a homophobe. Meeting someone who was gay changed all that. Hopefully one day this student, too, will see the light.

Good to see we have some 'dark side converts' in the forum. =) Always better to have a success story to keep in mind when you're constantly flooded with negatives in a place like this.

That assignment is probably one of the most retarded things possible. I'm happy the girl stood up for her beliefs agaisnt such ridiculous things. I probably wouldn;t have done it either or have done it in a very anti-homosexual way.

A 13-YEAR-OLD student was failed after she refused to write an assignment on life in a gay community, because of her religious and moral beliefs.

If her religious and moral beliefs say that homoesxuality is wrong, or something along those lines, she could very well have done the assignment with the viewpoint that she would be the minority moral person surrounded by immoral people.

Sounds to me like she's just lazy.

After a series of discussions between the school and her mother, it was suggested the girl would be better off leaving the state education system and attending an independent school.

Yes, it is better to be sheltered from knowledge and discussion. That way, you can remain ignorant your entire life!

"My daughter said she didn't want to do the assignment because she did not believe in homosexuality and did not want to answer the questions.

"Did not believe in homosexuality"???? What, is she sticking her fingers in her ears and going, "LALALALALALA! THERE ARE NO GAY PEOPLE HERE!"

"She was being challenged, but she should not be challenged like that at her age."

Or ever, most likely.

Bronwyn was concerned that her daughter was not given an alternative scenario.

Nor does the scenario in question present a problem. She would simply look at it from a different angle. It shouldn't be hard for someone who appears to be trying to make a martyr of herself already.

"It is completely out of line for students to be graded on their moral beliefs.

Yes, it would be. Luckily, she wasn't. She was graded based on her complete and utter failure to do an assignment.

"It's not the job of our schools to politicise our children. It is their function to provide our kids with the basics, like reading, writing and maths."

Nothing like the bare minimum. We wouldn't want to actually educate children, now would we?

Good to see we have some 'dark side converts' in the forum. =) Always better to have a success story to keep in mind when you're constantly flooded with negatives in a place like this.

It's my hope others can convert, as well.

I think i lked you better when you were posting as Deep Kimchi. :DThis guy doesn't sound like DK.

That assignment is probably one of the most retarded things possible. I'm happy the girl stood up for her beliefs agaisnt such ridiculous things. I probably wouldn;t have done it either or have done it in a very anti-homosexual way.You still go to school? That would explain why you seem to consider "I don't want to do my homework" an acceptable belief system...

That assignment is probably one of the most retarded things possible. I'm happy the girl stood up for her beliefs agaisnt such ridiculous things. I probably wouldn;t have done it either or have done it in a very anti-homosexual way.

You're probably legally retarded, so I won't make fun of you.

That assignment is probably one of the most retarded things possible. I'm happy the girl stood up for her beliefs agaisnt such ridiculous things. I probably wouldn;t have done it either or have done it in a very anti-homosexual way.

If it asks for an opinion on homosexuality or your beliefs on it absolutely, you would be correct in answering your views.

But failing to do an assignment on the basis that your parents tell you something is a sin when you are not required to partake in that “sin” is complete BS

She was probably just trying an easy cover-up for her desire to be lazy …

That assignment is probably one of the most retarded things possible. I'm happy the girl stood up for her beliefs agaisnt such ridiculous things. I probably wouldn;t have done it either or have done it in a very anti-homosexual way.

At least the bolded would have been completing the assignment. If the teacher then failed you for expressing your beliefs within the context of the assignment, there would be cause for complaint.

Instead, this girl simply refused to complete an assignment. It's really no different from a child whose parents have taught her that the Holocaust didn't happen refusing to write a paper on the Holocaust - and I doubt anyone would try and argue that such a child shouldn't receive the big fat F on that assignment they would deserve.

She was probably just trying an easy cover-up for her desire to be lazy …
It's also possible that her parents are really the force behind this little "protest." The girl may just be going along with what her parents are telling her.

You'd think they asked her to "convert". Nobody said she had to approve, just write about it.

And I did love the "I don't believe in homosexuals."
Maybe they don't believe in you either. Does that mean she doesn't exsist?
I'd love if people I disagreed with disappeared if I refused to believe in them.:headbang:

It's also possible that her parents are really the force behind this little "protest." The girl may just be going along with what her parents are telling her.

Sorry that defiantly should be added … ignorant people like that probably threatened to beat her if she did not tow the line.

(sorry bit of an over reaction but I agree with your point … a fear of retribution or severe coaching on the part of the parents is absolutely possible)

It's also possible that her parents are really the force behind this little "protest." The girl may just be going along with what her parents are telling her.Well, according to the article, the mom didn't even know what the failed grade was about.

Well, according to the article, the mom didn't even know what the failed grade was about.

That or she is playing stupid in order to cover up for the coaching

That or she is playing stupid in order to cover up for the coachingI don't think so:

The girl's mother said yesterday she did not learn of the assignment until reading her daughter's report card several weeks later and discovered a first-ever fail mark for health and physical education.

Sorry that defiantly should be added … ignorant people like that probably threatened to beat her if she did not tow the line.

(sorry bit of an over reaction but I agree with your point … a fear of retribution or severe coaching on the part of the parents is absolutely possible)
In my experience, each generation tends to become more tolerant and liberal-minded than the one that preceded it. Teenagers of today are pretty comfortable with homosexuality, and 18-25 year olds overwhelmingly support recognizing equal rights for gay citizens. I think some parents are freaked out by that. They see their kids coexisting peacefully with Those People (blacks, gays, whatever) and feel the panic set in. It's got to be tough to see your own bigotry contrasted with your kids' open-mindedness, and even tougher to realize that the world is coming to loath the "values" that you hold.

I don't think so:

Fair enough in this case … Either way my original (couple of posts removed) stance stands … probably trying to cover with lazyness.

I cant imagine having enough conviction at age 13 to actually refuse an assignment and have the balls to carry that through to the end.

Props to the young lady and her parents.

Yes, we should teach our young children that simply not doing your work is a good thing.

And how revealing that the out-of-control PC ideologues running the school system intended to keep parents from learning of their efforts to indoctrinate impressionable young minds with the notion that homosexuality is equivalent to, and interchangeable with, heterosexuality.

What evidence do you have that they were trying to "indoctrinate" any such thing? They were simply asking children to imagine what it would be like to be in the minority - to be one of the few heterosexuals in a majority homosexual society. This doesn't, in any way, require the student to believe or state that the two are "equivalent to" or "interchangeable with." The student could just as well do the assignment from the point-of-view of being the "rose among thorns", as it were.

Well, according to the article, the mom didn't even know what the failed grade was about.
That's perfectly possible. It's possible the kid just didn't do her work, and then tried to retroactively claim some kind of "moral objection" to cover her ass. It's possible that her parents found out about the assignment she didn't do, and decided to use it as a springboard for their own agenda.

All pure speculation. I just think it's worth remembering that this is a KID we're talking about, a kid who has parents. I don't believe parents should be held responsible for all their kids' mistakes, but I do think they have some responsibility for how they choose to handle those mistakes.

Reading over the article in the OP, it seems to me that the assignment should have been perfect for someone who objects to homosexuality on "moral and religious grounds" (I do suspect that that's at the root of it, not the assignment itself). The questions included ones on being in the minority and on coping with the situation. Isn't it true that Christians these days consider themselves to be under attack and a philosophical minority (even though numerically they're anything but)? This young person was handed a perfect way to get her moral and religious beliefs out in public, handed it on a silver platter. If she had completed the assignment by citing her beliefs, the teacher could not have failed her. If that happened, I would have been out front defending her. Instead she (and, as Bottle says, more likely her parents) took the victims way out by claiming to be persecuted by the failing grade.

In my experience, each generation tends to become more tolerant and liberal-minded than the one that preceded it. Teenagers of today are pretty comfortable with homosexuality, and 18-25 year olds overwhelmingly support recognizing equal rights for gay citizens. I think some parents are freaked out by that. They see their kids coexisting peacefully with Those People (blacks, gays, whatever) and feel the panic set in. It's got to be tough to see your own bigotry contrasted with your kids' open-mindedness, and even tougher to realize that the world is coming to loath the "values" that you hold.

Good I hope the fear panic for the rest of their lives if they continue to hold those archaic and outdated beliefs. Hopefully it will get them to change them or at least shut up about it when they realize we do not share and refuse to condone the bigoted behavior that they have shown.