NationStates Jolt Archive

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

It lets the terrorists win.

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?The obvious answer its bad because I didn't have any. :p

Provided they are responsible, fully aware of the potential outcomes of their action, and use appropriate contraceptives, there is nothing wrong with it.

If they're married, there's nothing wrong with it. Now whether they should be married or not is debatable.

If they're married, there's nothing wrong with it. Now whether they should be married or not is debatable.Course, if they're not married, there isn't anything wrong with it either.

Course, if they're not married, there isn't anything wrong with it either.

That would be a no.

That would be a no.

Welcome to 1956. Population: you.








(Sorry. For the cliché)

Sex is fine provided that there is proper protection being used by the conscending parties and that both parties are in their right mind. (no robbing the crib)

That would be a no.Why?

Welcome to 1956. Population: you.








(Sorry. For the cliché)

Ehh, it's not like I haven't heard it before. Oh wait, I haven't. It's usually 1700.

Why?

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

Very few teenagers are responsible enough to use protection consistently. That’s probably a problem with sex education is schools and the reluctance of most parents in the US to talk to their kids about sex, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s something I can't approve of for most teenagers. In the end though, I don't care unless they end up creating a kid that they can't provide for.

If we had mandatory abortions for minors, I wouldn’t care at all.

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.Ah. Because you read it in a book. I see. I have a book in my closet that says otherwise. Your turn. Trump that.

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

Hate to tell you this, but Scripture is not some kind of universal moral law.
It's just a book. Nothing more.

Provided they are responsible, fully aware of the potential outcomes of their action, and use appropriate contraceptives, there is nothing wrong with it.

Fascist

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

*puts on flame-retardant suit*

As long as they fully realise the consquences and expect no help from others in case of pregnancy/STDs then sure.

Ah. Because you read it in a book. I see. I have a book in my closet that says otherwise. Your turn. Trump that.

Trump? Well, if the Book I am referring to is truly the Word of God (which is a different debate), then you have been trumped, are being trumped, and forever will be trumped.

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

Yea, because that means more than a piece of shit with something written in it by a hobo.

Trump? Well, if the Book I am referring to is truly the Word of God (which is a different debate), then you have been trumped, are being trumped, and forever will be trumped.And the funny thing is, if its not, your case goes down the toilet faster than you can say "flush".

Trump? Well, if the Book I am referring to is truly the Word of God (which is a different debate), then you have been trumped, are being trumped, and forever will be trumped.

Depends what you consider the 'word of god' to be, and whether or not a god actually exists.

If you don't believe a god exists then the fairy tale which is written in your bible means about as much as Harry Potter.

Hate to tell you this, but Scripture is not some kind of universal moral law.
It's just a book. Nothing more.

This is a different debate. If you want to debate it we can step outside to another thread. I was answering the question of why it is wrong and now my time is done.

If you need me to explain where or how Scripture says it's wrong I will, but the debate over whether Scripture is inspired or not is for another thread.

Depends what you consider the 'word of god' to be, and whether or not a god actually exists.

If you don't believe a god exists then the fairy tale which is written in your bible means about as much as Harry Potter.

See my above post, please.

See my above post, please.It's rather disappointing that you have no free will of your own and surrender it so readily to the contents of a book. Sorry, but pre-marital sex isn't any worse than abstinence.

See my above post, please.

No, I'm afraid that if you're going to use something as a basis for a discussion you have to be ready to defend it against any criticism or attack.

Simply running and squealing that 'discussion of the bible doesn't belong in this thread' isn't good enough; you used it as justification for your post, you have to be ready to defend it.

I'm with you Edwardis. Livin in 1700 and proud of it.

No, I'm afraid that if you're going to use something as a basis for a discussion you have to be ready to defend it against any criticism or attack.

Simply running and squealing that 'discussion of the bible doesn't belong in this thread' isn't good enough; you used it as justification for your post, you have to be ready to defend it.

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By faith. There are things which support our faith, but it comes down to faith.

I'm with you Edwardis. Livin in 1700 and proud of it.

An ally! :p

Pass me the razor, I need to shave my head so the silly wig will sit on my head correctly.

I'm with you Edwardis. Livin in 1700 and proud of it.

Same here. I just don't talk about it/try to make others live in my time. I'm sixteen years old; never had sex, Drank alcohol, smoked anything, and I refrain from swearing as much as possible. Some may call that abnormal, I call it choice.

back to the main point though, you shouldnt be havin kids before you can have a job. keep it in your pants kid.

Wet spots on the furniture. That's what.

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By faith. There are things which support our faith, but it comes down to faith.The problem with that logic is that if the Koran is the word of God, then it must be obeyed instead. If a stone tablet describing Aztec sacrificial rites is the word of the true Gods, then it must be obeyed. And all you really offer in support of that is faith.

Same here. I just don't talk about it/try to make others live in my time. I'm sixteen years old; never had sex, Drank alcohol, smoked anything, and I refrain from swearing as much as possible.

Another ally! :p

Why don't you talk about it? Don't you have the responsibility to try to convince others of their error?

For people that don't want to obey the Bible, fine, don't. Personally I go by it. Hell is a risk I'd rather not take. I've had a girlfriend for over two years and we've never had sex. I'm perfectly fine with that.

back to the main point though, you shouldnt be havin kids before you can have a job. keep it in your pants kid.That's what condoms, the pill, and abortions are there for.

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By faith. There are things which support our faith, but it comes down to faith.

And your faith means, frankly, fuck all to me.

I believe in Harry Potter as our one true saviour, and he seems to be OK with pre-marital sex. So I'll just carry on with that.

Glad we cleared that up.

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By faith. There are things which support our faith, but it comes down to faith.
... when did God say you have to obey him?

For people that don't want to obey the Bible, fine, don't. Personally I go by it. Hell is a risk I'd rather not take. I've had a girlfriend for over two years and we've never had sex. I'm perfectly fine with that.As long as you don't push that on me, that's a perfectly acceptable lifestyle :)

The problem with that logic is that if the Koran is the word of God, then it must be obeyed instead. If a stone tablet describing Aztec sacrificial rites is the word of the true Gods, then it must be obeyed. And all you really offer in support of that is faith.

Yes, and? All you have to offer is faith that there is no God. Or that the existence of God doesn't matter? Or whatever you believe that allows you to permit teen sex, you only have faith as the basis.

Harry Potter? Alrighty then.

For people that don't want to obey the Bible, fine, don't. Personally I go by it. Hell is a risk I'd rather not take. I've had a girlfriend for over two years and we've never had sex. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Well...you've never had sex, who knows what she's been up to....every girl has needs, after all...

Harry Potter? Alrighty then.

Hairy Palmer, surely.

Harry Potter? Alrighty then.

Yeah, it also allows the deposition of faiths in false leaders who promise much yet never deliver.

... when did God say you have to obey him?

All through Scripture. He says many times to keep the commandments.

If we want to discuss Scripture further, there is a thread called "Silence them Christians" which is discussing this kinda stuff. I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it has been already.

I don't agree with having sex before your married or at such a young age. The main reason for my argument is because I am somewhat religious. And if you want to put it into a more modern (and I admit more acceptable) point of view, it's almost like a test of self worth and willpower. For some reason, I feel good about myself that I didnt succumb to a bajillion year old urge and go chinpshit on some babe.

And it's not about that "oo Im saving it for my future wide" peice of bullshit. Sex is just another normal part of life. What upsets me is how so often people make such a bigass deal about it and the often.....fuck I can't think of a bigword.....bad culture that arrises from it.

Btw to the guy who called watever holy book a peice of crap, please, let's not have our heads stuck so far up our asses that we go around insulting the beleifs of other people with such little provocation.

Yes, and? All you have to offer is faith that there is no God. Or that the existence of God doesn't matter? Or whatever you believe that allows you to permit teen sex, you only have faith as the basis.Pah. What I believe is that there isn't enough evidence to condemn anyone according to religious texts. I'm agnostic, meaning there is uncertainty about which deity is the true one or whether there is one at all. So I pick a way of life that takes other standards into account and hope that the Deity will be benevolent enough to accept me on those grounds.

I'm not going to force anything down anyone's throat. It's not the way to go. I figure if someone wants to change or finds that his/her life is lacking, he/she will find some type of religion to fill the gap. Otherwise, if you are content with life the way it is, go for it. Sure, I'm supposed to promote Christianity and our lifestyle, but I don't think I should run around with an AK-47 and a bunch of hand grenades forcing people to believe it. Not dissing you or anything Edwardis, but I'm just saying my way is more of the passifist approach.

That's what condoms, the pill, and abortions are there for.

and those right there.... are what JOBS are for. cant pay, cant &^%$

All through Scripture. He says many times to keep the commandments.

If we want to discuss Scripture further, there is a thread called "Silence them Christians" which is discussing this kinda stuff. I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it has been already.
Ah, okay then...

I live for myself and I answer to nobody.

What upsets me is how so often people make such a bigass deal about it and the often.....fuck I can't think of a bigword.....bad culture that arrises from it.

...let's not have our heads stuck so far up our asses that we go around insulting the beleifs of other people with such little provocation.I notice you were provoked, so the irony isn't as tangible as it looks.

Well...you've never had sex, who knows what she's been up to....every girl has needs, after all...

...Ok that kinda ticks me off, please don't talk about her that way. She's more religious(sp? I never can spell that word lol) than I am so I don't have to worry about that.

but I don't think I should run around with an AK-47 and a bunch of hand grenades forcing people to believe it.

Who said to do that?

All through Scripture. He says many times to keep the commandments.

If we want to discuss Scripture further, there is a thread called "Silence them Christians" which is discussing this kinda stuff. I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it has been already.

It hasn't been hijacked at all. The poster you were responding to was merely asking for some reason why you blindly follow a fictional entity when deciding your position on certain subjects. He has every right to, within the context of this thead.

I put it to you that, far from trying to defend the 'integrity' of this thread, you are simply incapable of adequately defending your position, being as it is wholly dependent on faith and, therefore, irrelevent in any logical discussion.

I'm not going to force anything down anyone's throat. It's not the way to go. I figure if someone wants to change or finds that his/her life is lacking, he/she will find some type of religion to fill the gap. Otherwise, if you are content with life the way it is, go for it. Sure, I'm supposed to promote Christianity and our lifestyle, but I don't think I should run around with an AK-47 and a bunch of hand grenades forcing people to believe it. Not dissing you or anything Edwardis, but I'm just saying my way is more of the passifist approach.

There should be one day a year where every one is given an ak47 with rubber bullets to go out and fight for the superiority of their faith in the streets. Whiever religios group wins gets to make a temple at the north pole..+ free cookies.

Here we go:

God being God (or Allah, or Yaweah, or whatever) really has other things to be worried about, right?

Do you really think God cares who has sex? The commandlents in ANYONE'S version of Scripture relect the moral and politcal values of the time they were written down in, not some command from on high.

God is in your heart, and in your soul. Not in a book, or a church, or whatever. If you and your consentual partner are ok with the responsibilities involved, knock it out, kid.

KBP

and those right there.... are what JOBS are for. cant pay, cant &^%$Course, responsible parents usually by their sexually active youths such things (abortions excepted).

...Ok that kinda ticks me off, please don't talk about her that way. She's more religious(sp? I never can spell that word lol) than I am so I don't have to worry about that.

Well, she can follow the example of Job's daughters (still taking her actions from the bible), and have a great time...

@ Edwardis et al. (I picked him because I could remember his name, don't be too offended):

Why does it have to be about everyone following God's law? Why can't people who don't accept it live their own way? It's not like they are forcing you to have Teen Sex. Whatever happened to live and let live?

Here we go:

God being God (or Allah, or Yaweah, or whatever) really has other things to be worried about, right?

Do you really think God cares who has sex? The commandlents in ANYONE'S version of Scripture relect the moral and politcal values of the time they were written down in, not some command from on high.

God is in your heart, and in your soul. Not in a book, or a church, or whatever. If you and your consentual partner are ok with the responsibilities involved, knock it out, kid.

KBP
You win the tread.

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

Two words:

Bastard Children

Two words:

Bastard Children

William the Conqueror managed pretty well.

@ Edwardis et al. (I picked him because I could remember his name, don't be too offended):

Why does it have to be about everyone following God's law? Why can't people who don't accept it live their own way? It's not like they are forcing you to have Teen Sex. Whatever happened to live and let live?

If it truly is God's Law, we would not only be foolish, but also in sin to not tell others about the Law and the consequenses of not obeying it.

And no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Even if I put a gun to your head and said "Worship God," you could still choose not to and take the bullet. Not that I'm advocating putting guns to anyone's head.

If it truly is God's Law, we would not only be foolish, but also in sin to not tell others about the Law and the consequenses of not obeying it.

And no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Even if I put a gun to your head and said "Worship God," you could still choose not to and take the bullet. Not that I'm advocating putting guns to anyone's head.

But why even bring it up? Jesus said to look first to the splinter in your eye before attacking the plank in anothers, didn't he?

Two words:

Bastard Children

Mandatory Abortion. Problem solved.

Mandatory Abortion. Problem solved.

How would you enforce it?

But why even bring it up? Jesus said to look first to the splinter in your eye before attacking the plank in anothers, didn't he?

Oh, I am to deal with my own splinter, yes. Or plank.

But there's nothing wrong with alerting others to their own splinters and planks so they can deal with them.

Oh, I am to deal with my own splinter, yes. Or plank.

But there's nothing wrong with alerting others to their own splinters and planks so they can deal with them.

Jesus also said to judge not, lest ye be judged. Surely "Judging" someone as not following God's law is a case of judgement?

Jesus also said to judge not, lest ye be judged. Surely "Judging" someone as not following God's law is a case of judgement?

Am I to judge souls? No. Am I to judge actions? Yes and no. As part of the Church, I am to say "You know, you really shouldn't be doing that." Judgement for punishment though is left to the civil government and the Church corpoarately.

How would you enforce it?
Make it illegal for a minor to knowingly give birth. If they do, charge them with child abuse and put the kid in the care of the state.

Make it illegal for a minor to knowingly give birth. If they do, charge them with child abuse and put the kid in the care of the state.

Hmm... brutal, but perhaps effective.

What if the minor attempts to hide the child? Do you really want to provide an incentive for that sort of thing?

Am I to judge souls? No. Am I to judge actions? Yes and no. As part of the Church, I am to say "You know, you really shouldn't be doing that." Judgement for punishment though is left to the civil government and the Church corpoarately.

Jesus meant more than just judging souls. He meant judging your fellow man. He said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

He meant it, and by judging even the "Actions" of your fellow man, you violate Jesus' message.

Kids need to try more anal sex.

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.
Your scripture is not my scripture.

Your scripture is not everybody's scripture.

If you must let scripture influence your opinion, then no one can stop you, nor should they. But religion is a private matter, and politics is a public matter. As such, it would be best to build your argument that premarital sex should be illegal upon a non-religious foundation.

If it truly is God's Law, we would not only be foolish, but also in sin to not tell others about the Law and the consequenses of not obeying it.
First of all: That is correct, IF.

Second of all: That may be correct that you would be foolish and sinful to TELL others about the universal law. Except I don't see how TELLING people about a universal law is synonymous with making it an earthly law. In fact, it could be foolish and sinful to do so.

And no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Even if I put a gun to your head and said "Worship God," you could still choose not to and take the bullet. Not that I'm advocating putting guns to anyone's head.
By that logic, we could enact almost any law imaginable, including, for example, the law that every black person must give themselves up for slavery to a white person. Hey, they're not being forced by anyone to do it. They can still choose to have their head cut off if they don't obey.

Jesus meant more than just judging souls. He meant judging your fellow man. He said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

He meant it, and by judging even the "Actions" of your fellow man, you violate Jesus' message.

If I judge actions, am I judging the person? "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

If I judge actions, am I judging the person? "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

But it is judgement all the same, and Jesus was condemning the throwing of stones, be they verbal or phyisical or legal.

Remember, the sinner is more righteous in the eyes of God than is the Pharisee, and we once more return to:

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Hmm... brutal, but perhaps effective.

What if the minor attempts to hide the child? Do you really want to provide an incentive for that sort of thing?
The current system allows an incentive for giving birth to children with no future.

But it is judgement all the same, and Jesus was condemning the throwing of stones, be they verbal or phyisical or legal.

Remember, the sinner is more righteous in the eyes of God than is the Pharisee, and we once more return to:

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

I told you, I'm considering both. I deal with the one in my eye. And I let the other person know about whatever is in his eye. That's all the further my responsibillity extends. I deal with mine and let others know they have to deal with theirs. I don't deal with it for them.

The current system allows an incentive for giving birth to children with no future.

Nonsense. Teenage pregnancy is almost never intentional and teenage childbirth is a very poor life choice.

Pass me the razor, I need to shave my head

Haha, no kidding.


If it truly is God's Law, we would not only be foolish, but also in sin to not tell others about the Law and the consequenses of not obeying it.

Hmm, okay, observing that, how about we take a peer into this Book of Moral Laws, eh?

13:10 And Amnon said unto Tamar, Bring the meat into the chamber, that I may eat of thine hand. And Tamar took the cakes which she had made, and brought them into the chamber to Amnon her brother.

13:11 And when she had brought them unto him to eat, he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister.

13:12 And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly

As a fellow believer in the divine Harry Potter once said: "OH FUCK ME WITH YOUR FORKED TAIL!"

T'is the Holy Prayer, now come and observe it, lest you wish to commit a sin and be forced into a most grievous after life.

/Oh yeah, have a nice day :) .

I told you, I'm considering both. I deal with the one in my eye. And I let the other person know about whatever is in his eye. That's all the further my responsibillity extends. I deal with mine and let others know they have to deal with theirs. I don't deal with it for them.

Now, I'm no Christian by any means (but I grew up in a Christian family), but in my mind, that comes across as saying "I want to have it both ways". I'll let the sleeping dog lie for now, but from an outsider's view, I'd read down two lines, where it is continued that you cannot remove the splinter, having not removed the beam.

Since, by logic, we all have beams, it seems that the only course of action is to let them come to removing their splinters by the path that God intended for them.

Fascist

How is believing that responsible sex is acceptable "fascist," pray tell? :rolleyes:

anal sex in a snowbank.

Nonsense. Teenage pregnancy is almost never intentional and teenage childbirth is a very poor life choice.
Yeah, but its legal.
More important than teenage pregnancy’s effect on individual teenage mothers and their children is its effect on society and those that were not involved with the reproductive act.

Now, I'm no Christian by any means (but I grew up in a Christian family), but in my mind, that comes across as saying "I want to have it both ways". I'll let the sleeping dog lie for now, but from an outsider's view, I'd read down two lines, where it is continued that you cannot remove the splinter, having not removed the beam.

Since, by logic, we all have beams, it seems that the only course of action is to let them come to removing their splinters by the path that God intended for them.

And they will come by that path, if that is their path. But I have to disagree. I am making no attempt to remove the splinter (which would be sinful on my part). I am only making them aware. As they are to make me aware.

id support teenagers having anal sex. teaches em about life.

It's not just about contreception (SP?). Because none of that is 100% effective. You could be downing pills, applying patches, taking shots, and using condoms. Yet, there is still a possibility of impregnation. And if that does happen. Who is going to take care of it. The kids? Yeah right. It's going to be stuck with the parents. Not that I have followed this belief myself when I was a kid...

exactly my original point about jobs

It's not just about contreception (SP?). Because none of that is 100% effective. You could be downing pills, applying patches, taking shots, and using condoms. Yet, there is still a possibility of impregnation. And if that does happen. Who is going to take care of it. The kids? Yeah right. It's going to be stuck with the parents. Not that I have followed this belief myself when I was a kid...
But, you're assuming that the guy can shoot his fiull load and the girl is fertile and ovulating, and that the two parties involved are indeed male and female.

And they will come by that path, if that is their path. But I have to disagree. I am making no attempt to remove the splinter (which would be sinful on my part). I am only making them aware. As they are to make me aware.

My father (who was a fairly devout Episcopalian) has always told me that in Christian beleifs, God leaves a calling card. It may be better to allow God's Calling card (the concience) to act on it's own, rather than to tamper with that calling card, because it may be that by turning it into a "God or Ungod" issue, you not only drive the wrongdoer away from yourself, but also from God and what God would want from them.

what about sociopaths?

But, you're assuming that the guy can shoot his fiull load and the girl is fertile and ovulating, and that the two parties involved are indeed male and female.

Oh so we are splitting hairs?

Fine how about STDs? Thats not limited to just Guy/Girl.

Oh so we are splitting hairs?

Fine how about STDs? Thats not limited to just Guy/Girl.
But, you didn't mention those.

However, they could very well be having oral sex, which has a lesser chance of STDs...

Yeah, but its legal.
More important than teenage pregnancy’s effect on individual teenage mothers and their children is its effect on society and those that were not involved with the reproductive act.

But is the harm great enough to justify grossly violating the teenage female's autonomy?

But is the harm great enough to justify grossly violating the teenage female's autonomy?
Plus, not all teenage female's have the same level of physical maturity; some are far more developed than others.

Look, edwardis, I'll lay it out quite simple.

Your first post in this thread said that its wrong for unmarried people to have sex. Then you later justified this by saying its wrong in christian scripture.

Thats fine that you and your fellow christians choose to not have sex before marriage. If someone who was a christian had premarital sex, then it would be applicable, if redundant, to tell them it was sin(as they probably knew and didnt care).

However, you claimed that its wrong. Not wrong for christians, not wrong for people who believe its wrong, but just wrong. How can you tell people who aren't christians its wrong? Who are you to tell them that since your belief says its wrong, its wrong for all?

If you had said its wrong for people trying to follow christian scripture, you wouldn't have gotten nearly as much flak, for good reason. Your posts, at first anyways, reeked of pushing your faith. You are posting apologetics now, but still have yet to admit that its a matter of personal faith, and that you don't have the right to tell others its wrong because your personal faith says so.



Ohh, and new alchemy, I wouldn't worry about it bro. You aren't going to have sex until you're 37 anyways. Unless you find a way to turn eggplant into vagina.

tellin ya, anal sex is the answer to this problem, and to all problems the earth and universe has EVER faced. ALL. If, G.W. just bent over and took it up the keister today from the president of Iran, while giving him a reach-around, and then did the reverse. The world would be at peace.

I notice you were provoked, so the irony isn't as tangible as it looks.

I'm sorry but I wasn't provoked at all, quite honestly I don't know what your talking about, especially about irony. Let me explain it to you further;

Quote#1 in your post: I was saying that I don't like how the ussually bad teen culture that arrises from free-lovin so often.

Quote #2 in your post: I was basically telling Nadkor to knock it off after basically calling the Bible a piece of shit.

so the irony isn't as tangible as it looks.

What irony was I talking about?

My father (who was a fairly devout Episcopalian) has always told me that in Christian beleifs, God leaves a calling card. It may be better to allow God's Calling card (the concience) to act on it's own, rather than to tamper with that calling card, because it may be that by turning it into a "God or Ungod" issue, you not only drive the wrongdoer away from yourself, but also from God and what God would want from them.

No offence to you or your father, but I see no evidence for that in Scripture. Or rather, I see no evidence to take it to the extent that you are.

But I am tired and may not be thinking clearly. I'm going to bed and I'll try to respond less murkily tomorrow.

No offence to you or your father, but I see no evidence for that in Scripture. Or rather, I see no evidence to take it to the extent that you are.

But I am tired and may not be thinking clearly. I'm going to bed and I'll try to respond less murkily tomorrow.
It depends on what scripture, because different religions, heck, even different sects follow different elements of scripture.. so, he one you follow is not the same as a Christian, though some of the basic story is the same.

But is the harm great enough to justify grossly violating the teenage female's autonomy?
Yes. Unwanted children are one of the primary sources of poverty and crime.

tellin ya, anal sex is the answer to this problem, and to all problems the earth and universe has EVER faced. ALL. If, G.W. just bent over and took it up the keister today from the president of Iran, while giving him a reach-around, and then did the reverse. The world would be at peace.

must i say it again!:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Dunno if this would be too much of a chang ein direction, but I always wanted to through this one out;

If people didnt have so much promiscuous sex, or sex at all before marriage, think about how this huge aids epidemic would be halted in its tracks. I watched a whole documentary by that black guy in the discovery channel (or was it National Geographic?) in South Africa. Good God. The people there just can't stop themselves because life'sso shitty. And the guys think to themselves, hey I got aids Im gonna die, so Im gonna spread it as much and get laid as much before then. Holy shit.

But on another note, I find it almost laughable that AIDS could turn into a really, really, serious problem for our civilization, because essentially, its just the spread of desease from and between people having sex with random people. (by random I mean friends, and short term couples and stuff not long term relationships).


---I may not reply till tomorrow since it's late. g'night.-----

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?
nothing's wrong with teen sex. there is no more wrong with it than there is with Teen pregnancies, teens dropping out of school to get a sucky job to raise their kid(s), teens dropping off their kids for someone else to raise, or kids risking their lives to get an abortion...

But, you didn't mention those.

However, they could very well be having oral sex, which has a lesser chance of STDs...

Lesser chance? F that. You are missing my point. You cannot protect from the concequences 100%. And these concequences are expensive and harmful. None of which to I want to deal with if I was a parent.

Lesser chance? F that.
Well... you're assuming that the people aren't clean in the first place, and that protection will fail.

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

Because it is a choice with ultra heavy consequence ... not only are you NOT in a position to really fully make an informed decision (depending on the person) you are absolutly not prepared for the consequences weather that be having or aborting a child

Either choice can fuck you up for the rest of your life

But, you're assuming that the guy can shoot his fiull load and the girl is fertile and ovulating, and that the two parties involved are indeed male and female.

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.

I see you're assuming I'mn a teenager and not an adult? I'm 23 years old and in a committed relationship.

And what exactly is "old enough" anyway?

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.
*nods* and that is not including the fact that all forms of birthcontrol are not 100% effective...

*nods* and that is not including the fact that all forms of birthcontrol are not 100% effective...
I'm fairly certain that abortion is, and even if they botch it, they can always try again.

I see you're assuming I'mn a teenager and not an adult? I'm 23 years old and in a committed relationship.

And what exactly is "old enough" anyway?

If you want an age I'd say 30. Or 25 with a college or tech school degree and 5 years of living on your own and paying your own bills.

At 23 you should be able to start looking back and knowing that you have changed and matured a great deal in the last 8 years. At 54, I look back and see how immature people are at 23. But there is still a big difference between the 18 that I campaigned for and the 21 that was traditional. Part of that difference is 3 years out of the baby sitting that is High School.

If you want an age I'd say 30. Or 25 with a college or tech school degree and 5 years of living on your own and paying your own bills.

At 23 you should be able to start looking back and knowing that you have changed and matured a great deal in the last 8 years. At 54, I look back and see how immature people are at 23. But there is still a big difference between the 18 that I campaigned for and the 21 that was traditional. Part of that difference is 3 years out of the baby sitting that is High School.
You only see what you want to see.

You only see what you want to see.

If I'm still alive, I'll remind you in 30 years.

I'm fairly certain that abortion is, and even if they botch it, they can always try again.
:eek:
you realize what you are implying???

there are chances of complications in the procedure, that can result in death or sterilization... so "trying again" is not always an option. and should they be in a posistion to NOT afford the proper procedure, those chances go up!

Well... you're assuming that the people aren't clean in the first place, and that protection will fail.

"Protection" often doesn't prevent the spread of disease as the area affected usually extends beyond what is covered by a condom or other things.

I see you're assuming I'mn a teenager and not an adult? I'm 23 years old and in a committed relationship.

And what exactly is "old enough" anyway?

Yeah really, the older you are the more you look down on those younger than you esspecaily the younger they are regardless. Older people just get bitter.

I am 19, and I am going to be married in a year. I know exactly what I am doing and to hell with any one 30+ who calls me too young to understand. I've been around more shit than halfa them. There is much stupidity in the youth along with imaturity. But to old people that overshawdos the intellegence, vigiouresness, and marturity youth can really have. Honestly, they'll keep rasing the age limit the older they'll get until they're too young. why? becuase young people disagree with them. Its sounds childish to me. ya hear that old people, CHILDISH. And then theres the fact that they rais all these fucking age levels to 21+ for everything but you can still get drafted and die in a bloody god-forsaken war when your 18.

It lets the terrorists win.

Well, they hate our liberal permissive culture. So I'd say that not having promiscuous sex is letting the terrorists win.

Yeah really, the older you are the more you look down on those younger than you esspecaily the younger they are regardless. Older people just get bitter.

I am 19, and I am going to be married in a year. I know exactly what I am doing and to hell with any one 30+ who calls me too young to understand. I've been around more shit than halfa them. There is much stupidity in the youth along with imaturity. But to old people that overshawdos the intellegence, vigiouresness, and marturity youth can really have. Honestly, they'll keep rasing the age limit the older they'll get until they're too young. why? becuase young people disagree with them. Its sounds childish to me. ya hear that old people, CHILDISH. And then theres the fact that they rais all these fucking age levels to 21+ for everything but you can still get drafted and die in a bloody god-forsaken war when your 18.

You both are too young to be in "commited relationships"...

I'm 18. Single, and don't plan on getting married at all. No point. A lot of money and not a lot of benifits... Unless you are a girl. In that case. Go ahead, you benifit more than any guy would.

:eek:
you realize what you are implying???

there are chances of complications in the procedure, that can result in death or sterilization... so "trying again" is not always an option. and should they be in a posistion to NOT afford the proper procedure, those chances go up!
Which is why abortion should be free.

I'm generally not one to push my religion because I go by the saying, "Spread the gospel, and if necessary use words." (No, that is not from the Bible, so if it is erred thinking, please prove it to me.) But then again, people on an internet forum can't see how you're living your life can they?

In response to the "not judging" controversy...
Someone is not paying attention to where they are going (let's say they were reading a book while walking) and they are about to walk off a cliff. Another person shouts out to them in order to save them from certain death. (The cliff is a sheer drop of 1000 feet with jagged rocks at the bottom.) Did this person judge the person who was not paying attention, or were they simply alerting them to something they did not see because of the situation they were in? (reading)
The job of a Christian is similar. Some people are wrapped up in their sin and cannot see that they are in danger of facing eternal death. (Any sin can keep one from God if they are at an accountable stage in their life as He is perfect and cannot live with imperfection.) It is the duty of every Christian to alert those in sin that they face damnation if they do not repent of their sins. However, if they are unwilling to listen, we are not to force them to hear what we have to say. The Bible actually tells us to wipe our feet of them if we have tried and they do not listen. Just as we cannot force the person to not walk off the cliff if they are determined to do so.
Again, I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone. I am simply stating them.

Dunno if this would be too much of a chang ein direction, but I always wanted to through this one out;

If people didnt have so much promiscuous sex, or sex at all before marriage, think about how this huge aids epidemic would be halted in its tracks.

But on another note, I find it almost laughable that AIDS could turn into a really, really, serious problem for our civilization, because essentially, its just the spread of desease from and between people having sex with random people. (by random I mean friends, and short term couples and stuff not long term relationships).



Yeah, cause everyone knows that once you get married it becomes magically physically impossible to spread or become infected by HIV, and HIV doesn't ever spread mother-to-fetus during pregnancy, or through unsanitary hospital conditons/dirty needles, or rape...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah, cause everyone knows that once you get married it becomes magically physically impossible to spread or become infected by HIV, and HIV doesn't ever spread mother-to-fetus during pregnancy, or through unsanitary hospital conditons/dirty needles, or rape...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How about the fact that these married people are adult and can handle their own medical bills that suffer from STDs. Oh because HIV and other nasty things can be spread by other means you would rather not do anything to at least help the decrease in the spread of STDs?

Yeah, cause everyone knows that once you get married it becomes magically physically impossible to spread or become infected by HIV, and HIV doesn't ever spread mother-to-fetus during pregnancy, or through unsanitary hospital conditons/dirty needles, or rape...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Not every fatality in a traffic accident is caused by drunk drivers. Does that mean that drinking and driving should be permissable?

Which is why abortion should be free.and who will pay the doctor for his time? the equiptment used? the nurses, the location where the abortion will take place? is this money supposed to "magically Appear"?

If it's free, then it will come from TAXES! your tax dollars will be used to pay for some kid's abortion.

and that still doesn't mean that the chances of Infection goes down. check out all your state/government run facilities vers private/non-profit ones. and even then, Non-profits and private owned ones can go bankrupt. so FREE ANYTHING healthcare wise will either be low quality or non exsistant.

Add to that the tag of "free" and what's stopping every teen from fooling around then getting a pregnancy every time they fuck up? good way to teach responsibility!

and who will pay the doctor for his time? the equiptment used? the nurses, the location where the abortion will take place? is this money supposed to "magically Appear"?

If it's free, then it will come from TAXES! your tax dollars will be used to pay for some kid's abortion.

and that still doesn't mean that the chances of Infection goes down. check out all your state/government run facilities vers private/non-profit ones. and even then, Non-profits and private owned ones can go bankrupt. so FREE ANYTHING healthcare wise will either be low quality or non exsistant.

Add to that the tag of "free" and what's stopping every teen from fooling around then getting a pregnancy every time they fuck up? good way to teach responsibility!

Exactly. I would rather a kid go to a doctor for a one time (hopefully they will learn) deal then be on welfare for 10-20 years. That costs more money. Its not reasonable to teach responsibilty that way, when they make a mistake and there is no chance to correct it the next time. Do you want me to let you drive without a seatbelt and when you are paralized/dead then say "Well now you will be more responsible?"

Exactly. I would rather a kid go to a doctor for a one time (hopefully they will learn) deal then be on welfare for 10-20 years. That costs more money. Its not reasonable to teach responsibilty that way, when they make a mistake and there is no chance to correct it the next time. Do you want me to let you drive without a seatbelt and when you are paralized/dead then say "Well now you will be more responsible?"

ahh, but if the procedure is Free... who's to say that the one time will teach them anything. they could also learn "hey, if I/my GF gets knocked up, I can do this again..."

then there is also the fact that no protection is 100% effective against pregnancy, STD's and other risks.

then there are those that "Choose" to keep their baby, what then... another burden for their parents? or do they drop out to support their family... that is if the father actually hangs around and accepts his responsibility... if not, court, including court fees, lawyers etc...

The problem is that most Teens don't think beyond the sex.

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

What if both were atheists?

Trump? Well, if the Book I am referring to is truly the Word of God (which is a different debate), then you have been trumped, are being trumped, and forever will be trumped.

Hehe... the keyword here being "if"...

Am I to judge souls? No. Am I to judge actions? Yes and no. As part of the Church, I am to say "You know, you really shouldn't be doing that." Judgement for punishment though is left to the civil government and the Church corpoarately.

Don't you think you're starting with the wrong end, though? Telling people what to do and what not to do (which, incidentally, you implied doing in you first post. You didn't say "I think it's wrong", you said "it's wrong". A subtle, but very improtant difference) when knowing full well that they most of them don't even share your belief?

How about the fact that these married people are adult and can handle their own medical bills that suffer from STDs. Oh because HIV and other nasty things can be spread by other means you would rather not do anything to at least help the decrease in the spread of STDs?

Just because they're married doesn't mean they could handle the medical bills.

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.

During the first year??? Who was that study taken on, people who were trying to get pregnant? How many times did they have sex per day during the period of the survey? 1 in 20, seriously, my family would be twice its size if that were true. Aside from the fact that several of my friends would have kids.

And what country do you poor soul live in where the voting age is 21? I was advocating to get it lowered to 16, and now that I'm twice that age I still believe that would be the best age.

If they're married, there's nothing wrong with it. Now whether they should be married or not is debatable.

Why should anyone be married to have sex?
--Knowyourright.

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By faith. There are things which support our faith, but it comes down to faith.

has anyone ever written in the meaning of faith into one of these posts? well lets try

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed. How do we know it is the Word of God? By belief that is not based on proof. There are things which support our belief that is not based on proof, but it comes down to belief that is not based on proof..

ahhh that's better:)

When you're young, you seem to know everything until you grow older and realize you know next to nothing.

Think about that for a moment. I know you probably think I'm some ancient senior citisaurus who thinks that the youth are good for nothing retards but I'm still in my teens. I know many of you young people think that you know everything you need to know and that you think bad things won't happen to you, but that thinking's heavily flawed.

What's bad about teen sex? Because not all teens are mature people. That's why many of them smoke and drink. Short term pleasures. Here's a saying I know. think of it as a free verse poem:

"The desert's not so bad", says the man with plenty of shade and water until he got lost in the desert.
"Women who complain about being raped are wusses", says the woman until she was raped.
"Disease isn't an important issue", says the people who have not yet coughed
"Violence is okay", says the man who has not yet bled.
"Nothing bad will ever happen", says the boy the day he dies.

It may not seem like a big deal until you know the consequences. It's wrong to tell a man he's going to burn in hell but it's also wrong not to tell him to stop when he's about to walk off a cliff. It's wrong to blame the people threatened by fire, but it's also wrong to not point out the fire extinguisher they didn't notice right next to them. Blaming is immoral, but so is not helping.

I'm generally not one to push my religion because I go by the saying, "Spread the gospel, and if necessary use words." (No, that is not from the Bible, so if it is erred thinking, please prove it to me.) But then again, people on an internet forum can't see how you're living your life can they?

In response to the "not judging" controversy...
Someone is not paying attention to where they are going (let's say they were reading a book while walking) and they are about to walk off a cliff. Another person shouts out to them in order to save them from certain death. (The cliff is a sheer drop of 1000 feet with jagged rocks at the bottom.) Did this person judge the person who was not paying attention, or were they simply alerting them to something they did not see because of the situation they were in? (reading)
The job of a Christian is similar. Some people are wrapped up in their sin and cannot see that they are in danger of facing eternal death. (Any sin can keep one from God if they are at an accountable stage in their life as He is perfect and cannot live with imperfection.) It is the duty of every Christian to alert those in sin that they face damnation if they do not repent of their sins. However, if they are unwilling to listen, we are not to force them to hear what we have to say. The Bible actually tells us to wipe our feet of them if we have tried and they do not listen. Just as we cannot force the person to not walk off the cliff if they are determined to do so.
Again, I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone. I am simply stating them.


You know, that example is not quite correct. In Europe and America, the scenario would be more like a cliff plastered and strewn with warning signs (put up by crafty Chrisitans over centuries), with a rail right on the edge (legislations regarding age of consent, etc). The person on that cliff would be someone trying to get a glimpse of the natural beauty that lies behind all those garish warning signs and posts, and therefore climbs over the rail. And the person to walk up to him to warn him again would be an annoying busybody.
That person who climbed over the rail has seen the signs, but decided to ignore them because he wanted to get to the cliff. It's his risk, not yours.

When you're young, you seem to know everything until you grow older and realize you know next to nothing.

Think about that for a moment. I know you probably think I'm some ancient senior citisaurus who thinks that the youth are good for nothing retards but I'm still in my teens. I know many of you young people think that you know everything you need to know and that you think bad things won't happen to you, but that thinking's heavily flawed.

What's bad about teen sex? Because not all teens are mature people. That's why many of them smoke and drink. Short term pleasures. Here's a saying I know. think of it as a free verse poem:

"The desert's not so bad", says the man with plenty of shade and water until he got lost in the desert.
"Women who complain about being raped are wusses", says the woman until she was raped.
"Disease isn't an important issue", says the people who have not yet coughed
"Violence is okay", says the man who has not yet bled.
"Nothing bad will ever happen", says the boy the day he dies.

It may not seem like a big deal until you know the consequences. It's wrong to tell a man he's going to burn in hell but it's also wrong not to tell him to stop when he's about to walk off a cliff. It's wrong to blame the people threatened by fire, but it's also wrong to not point out the fire extinguisher they didn't notice right next to them. Blaming is immoral, but so is not helping.


Calendar quotes, cute.

Ok, I'm in my 30s now. And I do drink now and then. I don't smoke, never did, even as a teenager. Adults smoke and drink on average a whole lot more than teenagers. Being an adult doesn't suddenly turn you into a responsible person, and neither does being a teenager mean that you're irresponsible and can't be trusted. And it's completely pointless to deny either of them sex.

You know, that example is not quite correct. In Europe and America, the scenario would be more like a cliff plastered and strewn with warning signs (put up by crafty Chrisitans over centuries), with a rail right on the edge (legislations regarding age of consent, etc). The person on that cliff would be someone trying to get a glimpse of the natural beauty that lies behind all those garish warning signs and posts, and therefore climbs over the rail. And the person to walk up to him to warn him again would be an annoying busybody.
That person who climbed over the rail has seen the signs, but decided to ignore them because he wanted to get to the cliff. It's his risk, not yours.

Don't butcher a perfectly good comparison with extra details that do nothing more than confuse the message.

Let's just say they missed a cliff or there was budget cuts, which means the cliff is signless and railless or say that said person was blind and there were no rails(not enough money and time).

Don't butcher a perfectly good comparison with extra details that do nothing more than confuse the message.

Let's just say they missed a cliff or there was budget cuts, which means the cliff is signless and railless or say that said person was blind and there were no rails(not enough money and time).

That comparisson was flawed in assuming that people don't try their utmost to live and enjoy their life and to ingore those warnings and therefore Christians have to shout louder.
Christians certainly didn't miss the sex cliff, it's actually the one they buried under the most signs and warnings.

Calendar quotes, cute.

Ok, I'm in my 30s now. And I do drink now and then. I don't smoke, never did, even as a teenager. Adults smoke and drink on average a whole lot more than teenagers. Being an adult doesn't suddenly turn you into a responsible person, and neither does being a teenager mean that you're irresponsible and can't be trusted. And it's completely pointless to deny either of them sex.

But you're far more likely to find an adult with a job that pays enough for expences(kids take 18 years of raising, at least according to US traditions and laws and whatnot) than a teenager with a job that pays as much.

I'm not saying there's a magic age that makes people smart. I'm just saying it's reasonable to expect less experience and wisdom in a teenager who hasn't lived those extra years yet. Trust me. Very few employers are going to give teenagers a good job with good benefits(minimum wage seems good until you have many bills to pay), especially if they found out that teen dropped out of school.

Experience and wisdom are one part years and two parts having some pretty shitty things happen to you. Some people become all wise and smart before they hit puberty. Some remain ignorant from the time they came out of mommy until the day they come into Mr. Casket. Everyone else gets constantly wiser one day at a time.

[cliff analogy]
[cliff analogy II]
[Cliff Analogy ii.5]

actually all three are correct. one change would to cabra's. the signs don't block the beauty that lays beyond, but the signs are not easily missed either.

we, as Christians, can warn, teach and lead, either by preaching, evangilizing, living by example and/or through prayer. however, the ultimate choice is each person when they are faced with temptation.

everyone is given a chance, a choice and an opportunity to either sin or don't sin. just as everyone is given those same chances, choices and opportunities to accept God or not... the choice is for each person to make.

there is another change... at the bottom of that cliff is a large inflatable cushion that can safely stop a person, and send them back to the safety of the cliff... only that cushion is not inflated. all the person tumbling down has to do is ask to be saved. and that cushion will be inflated... it will only happen once. but it won't happen untill the falling person asks for it.

actually all three are correct. one change would to cabra's. the signs don't block the beauty that lays beyond, but the signs are not easily missed either....

I guess that depends on what angle you're coming from. From my point of view, the signs were placed there with the obvious intention to block the view.

I guess that depends on what angle you're coming from. From my point of view, the signs were placed there with the obvious intention to block the view.

however, to tempt the person... the view must also be seen. ;)
say, the sexiness of a woman, or man... the feel of their body pressed close to yours... the sound of their voice as they whisper into your ear.. the touch and caress as they...


err...



Scuse me...


*runs to dunk head in a sink of ice cold water.*

I bet alot of people(in group A) would say "it's not your problem" until it's their (group A's) problem. Then, it's suddenly everybody's problem.

Many people are just too ignorant of the consequences and most teens don't get paid enough money to justify the possible impregnation, let's leave it at that.

however, to tempt the person... the view must also be seen. ;)
say, the sexiness of a woman, or man... the feel of their body pressed close to yours... the sound of their voice as they whisper into your ear.. the touch and caress as they...


err...



Scuse me...


*runs to dunk head in a sink of ice cold water.*

Aw... I miss that. And I won't be seeing my boyfriend again until the 6th of October... *sigh :(

Aw... I miss that. And I won't be seeing my boyfriend again until the 6th of October... *sigh :(

sending Zen Hugs and Zen Snuggles! :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Because it is a choice with ultra heavy consequence ... not only are you NOT in a position to really fully make an informed decision (depending on the person) you are absolutly not prepared for the consequences weather that be having or aborting a child

Either choice can fuck you up for the rest of your life

Because condoms and the pill don't exist in your nation?
And "absolutely" has no 'E'?
Don't get me started...
--Knowyouright.

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.

I'm sick of everyone assosiating maturity with age. Marturity corresponds with intelligence and experience alone. Mentally mature 18-year-olds should be given the chance to vote, especially considering that there are probably 40-year-old voters that are less "mature" than them.
You really just sound like an old fart, and I'm willing to assume that you'd like to redeem yourself?
--Knowyourright.

You both are too young to be in "commited relationships"...

I'm 18. Single, and don't plan on getting married at all. No point. A lot of money and not a lot of benifits... Unless you are a girl. In that case. Go ahead, you benifit more than any guy would.

You can't tell someone that they're too young when you don't even KNOW them. I'm 17, and engaged. How do you like them apples?
--Knowyourright.

Because condoms and the pill don't exist in your nation?
And "absolutely" has no 'E'?
Don't get me started...
--Knowyouright.

I'm sick of everyone assosiating maturity with age. Marturity corresponds with intelligence and experience alone. Mentally mature 18-year-olds should be given the chance to vote, especially considering that there are probably 40-year-old voters that are less "mature" than them.
You really just sound like an old fart, and I'm willing to assume that you'd like to redeem yourself?
--Knowyourright.

You can't tell someone that they're too young when you don't even KNOW them. I'm 17, and engaged. How do you like them apples?
--Knowyourright.

sounds like you're taking things a mite bit personal there Rotovia...

also realize, you may not be the average, but one of the exceptions. ;)

I think that if you are a teenager and you want sex you will have sex no matter what people think, say or do about it.

If YOU feel its wrong then dont do it. Do not feel pressured into doing something that you do not want to do.

Religon has sweet FA to do with it.

The consentual age for sex in th UK is 16 anyone under that age who has sex runs the risk of prosecution under a rape charge as under the age of 16 you are not supposed to know what you are doing.

Personally if you want it go and get it, but take precautions...if you dont then keep your pants on.

But you're far more likely to find an adult with a job that pays enough for expences(kids take 18 years of raising, at least according to US traditions and laws and whatnot) than a teenager with a job that pays as much.
Ah, but teenagers have less expenses, so the money could very well be enough for all the contraception they could use.

I'm not saying there's a magic age that makes people smart. I'm just saying it's reasonable to expect less experience and wisdom in a teenager who hasn't lived those extra years yet. Trust me. Very few employers are going to give teenagers a good job with good benefits(minimum wage seems good until you have many bills to pay), especially if they found out that teen dropped out of school.Having sex=/=having a baby=/=dropping out of school. Sure, if you have sex with someone your GF, she might get pregnant. But even if she does that doesn't mean your life is totally over, you have to drop everything and get as much money as you can, and you become totally independant from your parents/guardians.

Experience and wisdom are one part years and two parts having some pretty shitty things happen to you. Some people become all wise and smart before they hit puberty. Some remain ignorant from the time they came out of mommy until the day they come into Mr. Casket. Everyone else gets constantly wiser one day at a time.

Who says you can't have experience when good things happen to you, or gain wisdom from good tihngs in your life?

Who says you can't have experience when good things happen to you, or gain wisdom from good tihngs in your life?

A burned hand can teach you more than a pat on the back. Let's just leave it at that.

A burned hand can teach you more than a pat on the back. Let's just leave it at that.

What about a pat on the back with a burning hand?

This is a different debate. If you want to debate it we can step outside to another thread. I was answering the question of why it is wrong and now my time is done.

If you need me to explain where or how Scripture says it's wrong I will, but the debate over whether Scripture is inspired or not is for another thread.

I would like you to quote where exactly this is WRITTEN. Because i can not find it in my Bible... I just find that is forbidden to want another man's wife...

Mind that i said written, because i don't care for someone's interpretaton of it.

BTW, what religion are you? And, please, do not just say Christian

What about a pat on the back with a burning hand?

I think you're missing my point. Humans learn more from failures and trauma than from success and reward. If it wasn't for unsuccessful hunts, disease, and a much higher mortality rate, what reasons would we have to go from huts and caves to houses and sky scrapers?

I think you're missing my point. Humans learn more from failures and trauma than from success and reward. If it wasn't for unsuccessful hunts, disease, and a much higher mortality rate, what reasons would we have to go from huts and caves to houses and sky scrapers?

The wouldn't letting teenagers get pregnant be better for them?

I don't understand why anyone would want to have sex, especially if they're only teenagers. I guess they can if they want, but it seems so disgusting and I don't understand why anyone would. I wouldn't ever have sex unless I got married, but I don't want to ever get married because I don't want to ever have sex.

I like teen sex, its hot. Its obvious people like it, since internet is so full of it :)

Provided they are responsible, fully aware of the potential outcomes of their action, and use appropriate contraceptives, there is nothing wrong with it.

This really is the question isn't it? Teenagers hormones go nuts and they think that knowledge is the only thing to consider. Many are simply not mentally prepared for the results of such an intimate act. Also it would be nice if so often one party wasn't pressured into doing something they are unsure about.

sounds like you're taking things a mite bit personal there Rotovia...

also realize, you may not be the average, but one of the exceptions. ;)

It's Knowyourright, on Rotovia's account.:rolleyes:

I don't understand why anyone would want to have sex, especially if they're only teenagers. I guess they can if they want, but it seems so disgusting and I don't understand why anyone would. I wouldn't ever have sex unless I got married, but I don't want to ever get married because I don't want to ever have sex.

Nothing much new there then...

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.It wouldn't happen to be in one of those books we choose to ignore for convenience, would it? The old testament has so many inconvenient laws. Many dietary (no shellfish or pork), but others too (some rather sharia-like).

Fine then. If the Bible is the Word of God, then it must be obeyed.Why exactly? If we also assume he knows what's best for us, then possibly. But can we depend on that; looking at the state of the world and all the disasters and misery plagueing us, I occasionally have my doubts..
True, there's also fear of retribution if we disobey, and possible reward if we do obey. But neither of those make it right to follow someone. I could threaten people with a gun and offer cookies, doesn't mean doing what I say is right. The point being; is what God wants right in the first place?

... when did God say you have to obey him?Even if he did, it doesn't mean you have to. It'd be silly just to obey people because they tell you you have to.

It's not just about contreception (SP?). Because none of that is 100% effective. You could be downing pills, applying patches, taking shots, and using condoms. Yet, there is still a possibility of impregnation.Abstaining is also not 100% effective; look at Mary, she gave birth as a virgin, poor gal.
And then there's the possibility of quantum tunneling. sure, it's exceedingly unlikely, but there's still a non-zero probability a sperm will pop from testical to ovum instantaneously.

Unwanted children are one of the primary sources of poverty and crime.Any statistics to back that up? It seems somewhat unlikely to me.

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)If you have sex once a year, I very much doubt your chance of getting pregnant is 85% without protection. Those numbers are fairly meanignless, as I pointed out once before. It depends on numerous circumstances, most notably how much sex you have in a year.
And added to that, combining both pill and condom would bring down the chance of pregnancy quite a bit further. If you want to be really safe, you can at least combine up to 5 contraceptive types I can think of. But I suppose that's a bit much to expect anyone to consider.

Nothing much new there then...

No. My thoughts haven't changed, and I still don't really understand.

No. My thoughts haven't changed, and I still don't really understand.

Honey, there's nothing much to understand. That's the wrong approach. Sex is about feeling, not thinking.
:fluffle:

Honey, there's nothing much to understand. That's the wrong approach. Sex is about feeling, not thinking.
:fluffle:

I just don't see any possible purpose to it other than procreation, and I don't want to have kids. So I don't understand its purpose or why people do it.

I just don't see any possible purpose to it other than procreation, and I don't want to have kids. So I don't understand its purpose or why people do it.

Do you like to listen to music? Yes? What purpose does that serve, apart from making you feel good?
It's not always about a purpose. Having sex can give you the most wonderful feelings and emotions, better than anything you ever experienced before. Unless you were doing drugs, which I definitely wouldn't recommend. ;)

Do you like to listen to music? Yes? What purpose does that serve, apart from making you feel good?
It's not always about a purpose. Having sex can give you the most wonderful feelings and emotions, better than anything you ever experienced before. Unless you were doing drugs, which I definitely wouldn't recommend. ;)

mmm endorphins....

And then theres the fact that they rais all these fucking age levels to 21+ for everything but you can still get drafted and die in a bloody god-forsaken war when your 18.

And why does the military want young people? Because they can be influenced and molded easier than older people who are more likely to have experiences they can draw upon. Give young people an order and they follow. Give an older person an order and their mind questions.

Do you like to listen to music? Yes? What purpose does that serve, apart from making you feel good?
It's not always about a purpose. Having sex can give you the most wonderful feelings and emotions, better than anything you ever experienced before. Unless you were doing drugs, which I definitely wouldn't recommend. ;)

So sex makes people feel good, and that's why they do it? I still don't want to ever have sex, but that sort of makes sense, I guess. It just seems really gross to me, although I'm not sure exactly why.

mmm endorphins....

What was that aobut you working at a hospital? Getting your fix at work, are you? ;) :D

What was that aobut you working at a hospital? Getting your fix at work, are you? ;) :D

Did you know those breast pumps up at the nusery can actua... :eek: nevermind...

So sex makes people feel good, and that's why they do it? I still don't want to ever have sex, but that sort of makes sense, I guess. It just seems really gross to me, although I'm not sure exactly why.

I'm guessing education. People most likely kept telling you that the areas connected with sex are dirty, and that you ought to be ashamed to show yourself naked to people... I used to feel a bit the same at your age.

Did you know those breast pumps up at the nusery can actua... :eek: nevermind...

*roflmao... literally! The image kills me.

I'm guessing education. People most likely kept telling you that the areas connected with sex are dirty, and that you ought to be ashamed to show yourself naked to people... I used to feel a bit the same at your age.

either that, or a low sex drive. or I've heard that some just don't want to.

Ah. Because you read it in a book. I see. I have a book in my closet that says otherwise. Your turn. Trump that.

Look, the Bible was written by God and God says no, uhuh, that's wrong. You believe otherwise, I guess that's fine, but ur going to hell. Plain and simple.
Besides, if you are arguing that you don't believe something that I read in the Bible, which, you are correct, it is a book, and your only defense is something you read in a book, well, that's hardly a good arguement. . .

Look, the Bible was written by God and God says no, uhuh, that's wrong. You believe otherwise, I guess that's fine, but ur going to hell. Plain and simple.
Besides, if you are arguing that you don't believe something that I read in the Bible, which, you are correct, it is a book, and your only defense is something you read in a book, well, that's hardly a good arguement. . .

His book is probably more up to date, though. :D

I'm guessing education. People most likely kept telling you that the areas connected with sex are dirty, and that you ought to be ashamed to show yourself naked to people... I used to feel a bit the same at your age.

You're probably right, but I know that I still wouldn't want to have sex until marriage even if I didn't think that sex seemed really disgusting. But then I guess I at least wouldn't be terrified of the possiblity that someone might like me and I might get married someday.

Look, the Bible was written by God and God says no, uhuh, that's wrong. You believe otherwise, I guess that's fine, but ur going to hell. Plain and simple.
Besides, if you are arguing that you don't believe something that I read in the Bible, which, you are correct, it is a book, and your only defense is something you read in a book, well, that's hardly a good arguement. . .

No, it dosen't. I beleive there some verses saying premarital sex but I know some teenagers who married and its not premarital if your never going to get married LOL!.

If you have sex once a year, I very much doubt your chance of getting pregnant is 85% without protection. Those numbers are fairly meanignless, as I pointed out once before. It depends on numerous circumstances, most notably how much sex you have in a year.
And added to that, combining both pill and condom would bring down the chance of pregnancy quite a bit further. If you want to be really safe, you can at least combine up to 5 contraceptive types I can think of. But I suppose that's a bit much to expect anyone to consider.

WHO--when they start having sex has it once? The first day I had sex, I had it 5 times, at least 15 times the first week. A minimum of 3 times every week the first year. I can't believe things have changed that much.

back to the main point though, you shouldnt be havin kids before you can have a job. keep it in your pants kid.

Finally! Someone with some common sense! Besides, your brain isn't even fully developed until you're 25 (by which time, most people have done considerable damage already), and more scientists then I can count have shown that your decision making is not fully mature until this point.

My opinion on marriage is this: if you're responsible enough to maintain a relationship long enough to create at least a semi-stable marriage, then you're responsible enough to have sex. With unmarried people, it's harder to determine whether they are responsible or not.

I say, if the kids are that responsible, let 'em marry and do whatever they want.

You're probably right, but I know that I still wouldn't want to have sex until marriage even if I didn't think that sex seemed really disgusting. But then I guess I at least wouldn't be terrified of the possiblity that someone might like me and I might get married someday.

Somehow the thought does seem to be on your mind a lot, though. You seem to spend a lot of time here discussing the topic, so if you think it's gross, what's so fascinating about it?

Finally! Someone with some common sense! Besides, your brain isn't even fully developed until you're 25 (by which time, most people have done considerable damage already), and more scientists then I can count have shown that your decision making is not fully mature until this point.

My opinion on marriage is this: if you're responsible enough to maintain a relationship long enough to create at least a semi-stable marriage, then you're responsible enough to have sex. With unmarried people, it's harder to determine whether they are responsible or not.

I say, if the kids are that responsible, let 'em marry and do whatever they want.

And yet, nobody disputes their right to drive a car at 16 or own a gun at 18. If they are this irresponsible, you may want to get that changed, as it is far more dangerous than having sex.

Somehow the thought does seem to be on your mind a lot, though. You seem to spend a lot of time here discussing the topic, so if you think it's gross, what's so fascinating about it?

I discuss it here when it's mentioned because I'm trying to understand why it's mentioned so much and why people do it, so that maybe it won't seem as gross to me someday. I do think it's gross, but I don't know why it's fascinating. That's sort of what I'm trying to figure out.

There's been some discussion over what age is "mature enough" -- is 16/18/whatever right, should younger teens be legally allowed, should the age limit be *raised* because you aren't really mature enough until you have finished college and/or gotten a job, settled down in the "real world," whatever....

...and honestly, some people really may be mature enough at 14 and 15, and certainly there are some people who never seem to act maturely and responsibly about sex (or anything else) even at age 40. But what are you going to do? Lock chastity belts onto everyone and physically prevent them from sexual contact until they pass a series of standardized exams on theoretical knowledge, technical proficiency, and emotional stability and maturity? (Because we all know how absolutely accurate standardized exams are and that no one ever "games the system.")

The point is that realistically, there isn't any one good cutoff, but to be practical you have to draw a line *somewhere*. Generally that line is drawn between 16 and 18 in many places as sort of a compromise.

I don't know that teenage sex is, in some sense, inherently sinful/Evil -- but from a practical standpoint, the younger your two (or however many) people are, the more likely that at least one of them is not emotionally mature enough, doesn't really understand or care about the potential consequences, and/or doesn't really understand what their partner thinks and feels about sex. From this standpoint, it makes more sense to wait a little longer, if you have any uncertainty at all (and even if you don't -- it's not like teens never misjudge their own ability for things).

Additionally, the way I see it, if we are talking about sex for love, then an enduring love should be able to handle not jumping into sex at a young age (in fact, may well handle waiting better than possibly "jumping in too soon" if one or both people weren't really ready for it). If we are talking about sex for fun, if you wait a bit you are less likely to wind up having sex with someone who thinks that the sex is for love and hurting them (and less likely to misjudge your intent, thinking you are doing this "just for fun" and only later finding out that you associate more serious feelings with the act and getting yourself hurt).

Sex itself isn't a necessarily Evil thing -- but there are potential negative consequences, whether they be pregnancy, STDs, or "simply" emotional fallout. In general, the younger you are, the less likely you are to be ready for these, particularly the last; the first two can be (mostly, but not without risk) protected against mechanically, but emotions are a far less tangible thing.

Any "age of consent" limit is going to be somewhat artificial, and yes, even unfair to those persons who mature more fully and/or rapidly than the norm.... but such limits are generally predicated upon the idea that (1) some kind of limit needs to exist, most people would probably agree that there are *some* ages that are just too young, and (2) there's less harm done by making someone who matures rapidly wait a year or two to have sex, than by allowing someone immature to do something they aren't ready for.

I discuss it here when it's mentioned because I'm trying to understand why it's mentioned so much and why people do it, so that maybe it won't seem as gross to me someday. I do think it's gross, but I don't know why it's fascinating. That's sort of what I'm trying to figure out.

Well, I talk a lot about it simply because it is fun. I enjoy it more than anything else, I'm curious about aspects of it I haven't tried yet (I won't go into detail, though), it makes me feel good to share experiences.
What exactly do you think is gross about it?

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.

ERROR: UB3R EB1L THEOCRATIC LAW.
RESPONSE: DISREGARD EDWARDIS.

Well, I talk a lot about it simply because it is fun. I enjoy it more than anything else, I'm curious about aspects of it I haven't tried yet (I won't go into detail, though), it makes me feel good to share experiences.
What exactly do you think is gross about it?

I don't know exactly. I guess the idea of being touched by someone else is a scary one, and the idea of being that close to someone. It just seems gross and scary.

I don't know exactly. I guess the idea of being touched by someone else is a scary one, and the idea of being that close to someone. It just seems gross and scary.

Sounds like you're more scared than actually grossed out by the thought.
One question : would you feel scared when you give your mom a hug? Or another member of your family? Or your best friend?

WHO--when they start having sex has it once? The first day I had sex, I had it 5 times, at least 15 times the first week. A minimum of 3 times every week the first year. I can't believe things have changed that much.That's hardly the point. It makes a hell of a lot of difference in terms of probability if you have sex 100 times in a year, or 50 or 200. What are the statistics you quote based on? Because it entirely neglects the variability in sexual behaviour?

And as a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if many people start off having sex just once. The first time is not instant bliss for everyone, some find it disappointing, some painfull. And in those cases, I doubt they'll be repeating it 5 times in a row at day 1. But you could always start a poll about it.

Look, the Bible was written by God and God says no, uhuh, that's wrong.The bible was not written by god. Inspired, perhaps, but he didn't take pen to paper himself.

That's hardly the point. It makes a hell of a lot of difference in terms of probability if you have sex 100 times in a year, or 50 or 200. What are the statistics you quote based on? Because it entirely neglects the variability in sexual behaviour?

And as a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if many people start off having sex just once. The first time is not instant bliss for everyone, some find it disappointing, some painfull. And in those cases, I doubt they'll be repeating it 5 times in a row at day 1. But you could always start a poll about it.

You're being silly. Statistics are never about an individual. The odds are that 1 in 20 on the pill will get pregnant in the first year. That means somebody in that other 19 might go to the doctor, pay for the pill and do it once. Of course there's also someone that will get pregnant the first time. The odds are a little less than 1 in 5 using the condom will get pregnant in the first year. Sombody out there will do it once and quit. Somebody out there will do it once and get pregnant. But if you look around a high school that's a lot of babies or a lot of abortions. Both change lives forever.

You're being silly. Statistics are never about an individual. The odds are that 1 in 20 on the pill will get pregnant in the first year. That means somebody in that other 19 might go to the doctor, pay for the pill and do it once. Of course there's also someone that will get pregnant the first time. The odds are a little less than 1 in 5 using the condom will get pregnant in the first year. Sombody out there will do it once and quit. Somebody out there will do it once and get pregnant. But if you look around a high school that's a lot of babies or a lot of abortions. Both change lives forever.

I still find that incredibly hard to believe, just taking into account the fact that the only person I know (including all my family, friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, etc) who ever got pregnant accidentally was my mother when she forgot to take the pill. Something about those stats is more than fishy.

Statistics are never about an individual. True, but this statistic is so general it's useless. If it was given in a per-act-of-copulation probability, people could use it, but now it says next to nothing. Unless you happen to know how much sex you have in comparison to everyone else.

The odds are that 1 in 20 on the pill will get pregnant in the first year.Only if they have an amount of sex that is average to whatever statistical population they used for that research. And when you linked to that site, I don't recall seeing it was based on a study of teenagers. Most likely it was based on a population that has a lot more sex than the ones we're talking about.

This is exactly why people claim there's "lies, damn lies, and statistics"; because statistics get thrown around irresponsibly without their proper context. And I'm sorry, but I can't stand that. It gives a worthwhile field of mathematics an exceedingly bad name.

I still find that incredibly hard to believe, just taking into account the fact that the only person I know (including all my family, friends, acquaintances, work colleagues, etc) who ever got pregnant accidentally was my mother when she forgot to take the pill. Something about those stats is more than fishy.

They're hardly likely to say to you "Bye, I'm just going off to have an abortion" are they?

I am pretty biased on this topic. I fell in love when I was 14 and the girl never had sex with me and then she moved away and she still has not had sex with me and I am 30 now and she is married and I soon will be and I am so bummed out about it but not as bad as I used to be.

Because of my horrible experience, I think that anybody who is in love and isnt having sex is a very bad person. But, do not breed if you are a teen even if you are married. Wait until you are better off financially. Get abortions if you have to it sure beats child neglect or child abuse and do not put your kid up for adoption because the world is already overpopulated.

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

The age limit is a uniform figure because it would be possible to make anylaw which can apply to every situation to decide weather the the teenagers are mature enough or not to know what they are doing or how to handel the situation. The age limit is trying to ensure maximum safety with maximum freedom at the same time.

They're hardly likely to say to you "Bye, I'm just going off to have an abortion" are they?

You know very little about close friendships, do you?

if you want to do it, do it. if you don't want to...don't, fairly simple- a good knowledge of sexual education is strongly recommended beforehand. age? when you feel you're ready, I have a friend whose 1st experience was at 10(with another 10 yr old), mine was 19 so there is no right age.

everyone else mind their own business, another persons sex life is their's to do as they wish.

religious folks...please fuck-off, live your own lives and stop telling others how to live theirs.

There's nothing inherently wrong with teenagers having sex.
It's the situations that usually surrounds it (ie feeling pressured, not feeling comfortable, not being responsible etc) - and those types of situations can occur at any time in life - that aren't so great. But even those can be valueable experiences, from which you can learn lessons.

Personally, my first sexual experience was crappy (just before turned 15) - I'm so glad I was at least sensible enough to stop before it went further. But I learnt a hell of a lot from them, and changed, and grew.
And my current experiences (I'm now 16 btw) with a long-term, serious partner are wonderful, and I hold no regrets or misgivings :)
However, I could have easily gone down the path I started on, and that would have been truly awful for me.

I do think I'm an exception, and very lucky to have such a fantastic partner, and attitude, and experiences (especially being relatively young).

I still maintain my original position on this matter. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11738063&postcount=31)

Sounds like you're more scared than actually grossed out by the thought.
One question : would you feel scared when you give your mom a hug? Or another member of your family? Or your best friend?

I wouldn't be scared if my mother or another family member gave me hug, but I would be kind of scared if a friend did.

Only if they have an amount of sex that is average to whatever statistical population they used for that research. And when you linked to that site, I don't recall seeing it was based on a study of teenagers. Most likely it was based on a population that has a lot more sex than the ones we're talking about.


Do a little study. It's not just one research project. It's study after study after study. That's the way science works. One person does research, another duplicates the research. After enough duplications it is accepted.

Use any search engine. You will get hundreds of hits. They will all say close to the same thing.

There are so many that I couldn't find the site that I quoted first because it was buried in hundreds more. Show me research that is considerably different.

and who will pay the doctor for his time? the equiptment used? the nurses, the location where the abortion will take place? is this money supposed to "magically Appear"?

If it's free, then it will come from TAXES! your tax dollars will be used to pay for some kid's abortion.
I'm fine with that. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Ultimately, the benefits from providing this service will benefit those paying the taxes in excess of the amount paid.
Add to that the tag of "free" and what's stopping every teen from fooling around then getting a pregnancy every time they fuck up? good way to teach responsibility!
What's wrong with fooling around?

Because extramarital sex is forbidden in Scripture.
Citation, please?

Citation, please?

In the NT it is very clear. Since you list Israel as location, I'm assuming you want OT.

Exod 22:16-17
Lev 21:13-15
Duet 22:20-21
Duet 22:23-24
Duet 22: 28-29

You can't tell someone that they're too young when you don't even KNOW them. I'm 17, and engaged. How do you like them apples?
--Knowyourright.

I think them apples are to quick thinking. I doubt you will last. I damn near guarantee it.

ahh, but if the procedure is Free... who's to say that the one time will teach them anything. they could also learn "hey, if I/my GF gets knocked up, I can do this again..."

then there is also the fact that no protection is 100% effective against pregnancy, STD's and other risks.

then there are those that "Choose" to keep their baby, what then... another burden for their parents? or do they drop out to support their family... that is if the father actually hangs around and accepts his responsibility... if not, court, including court fees, lawyers etc...

The problem is that most Teens don't think beyond the sex.

Court? What? Child support on a minimum wage job? Yeah that will be real effective. Still won't be enough. They will still be on welfare. Who the hell says its the fathers responsiblity. They both could be using birth control. I would actually give more responsibility to the mother because she could have done more to protect herself. And if you want some numbers...

Abortions costs anywhere from 350-600$ Figuring you can have an abortion every 10 months. You are looking at about 6 times every 5 years.

6 x 550 = 3300 every five years.

Now... Figure what welfare pays.

I would much rather have gov't assisted funding for abortions than someone leaching thousands of my tax dollars.

For people that don't want to obey the Bible, fine, don't. Personally I go by it. Hell is a risk I'd rather not take. I've had a girlfriend for over two years and we've never had sex. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Seriously, read the bible, it never mentions anything like a hell at all. It only mentions a "outside" for all the people who doesen't believe in him.

And also, I think the world is perfect as it is, I think it can't be worse, and it can't be better. it's just a matter about how you look at it.

Back to the discussion, since I'm 14, I see nothing wrong with teen sex. Though it seems, I'm not going to be getting any ^^

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

Well, I currently have a 15 year old cousin who is several months pregnant, and a fourteen year old sister who might be as well.

Neither of whom are emotionally or physically capable of raising a child.

So, kids, keep in your pants until you are ready(Age differs for most). And many kids are to stupid to realize the importance of contraceptives. They simply are. No two ways about it.

Basically, sex has a decent chance of causing pregnancy. If you are not ready to raise a child, you should not engage in the act.

I wouldn't be scared if my mother or another family member gave me hug, but I would be kind of scared if a friend did.

You don't normally hug your friends? Okay... :fluffle:
;)
It's probably difficult to imagine any form of intimate physical contact if you're not very used to physical contact at all. Maybe I can try to explain:

Imagine you're at school and the year has just started. You're sitting in maths class (I'm picking maths because it always was my worst subject. Insert your own worst subject anytime I type "maths" ;) ), the teacher's not there yet, and you're idly flipping through the new book. You open it somewhere in the middle, just to have a glance at the problems given there... and you suddenly feel that you never, ever going to be able to solve a single one of those. The numbers look weird, there are symbols you've never seen before, the whole thing looks scary. Then the teacher comes in and the lesson starts. He's doing some recap on the things you did the year before, some of the details are begining to come back to you now. Then he starts introducing some new problems, step by step, giving you the formulas, explaining it all to you.
A few months later, your class arrives at that page you glanced at on the first day of the year. And the problems turn out to be ridiculously simple after all.

Sex is the most intimate form of contact you can have with someone. If you're rather unfamiliar with physical contact on the whole, having sex would be like jumping in the deep end of the pool in an effort to learn to swim. It would be dangerous to say the least. Give it time, take it step by step. The first step would be to come across someone who you really like, and enjoy spending time with. Unlike school, this will follow no set curicullum, so there's no way of telling where or when it will happen. But it's very likely that it will some time. :)

I think them apples are to quick thinking. I doubt you will last. I damn near guarantee it.

You doubt love.

You doubt love.

Some people just can't help themselves. You tell them "I'm in love" and they throw statistics at you... ;)

Hmm some choose to obey the Bible, others The Joy of Sex.

I would personally say "if you're both consenting and are on the pill and are using condoms, fair enough".

There's been some discussion over what age is "mature enough" -- is 16/18/whatever right, should younger teens be legally allowed, should the age limit be *raised* because you aren't really mature enough until you have finished college and/or gotten a job, settled down in the "real world," whatever....

...and honestly, some people really may be mature enough at 14 and 15, and certainly there are some people who never seem to act maturely and responsibly about sex (or anything else) even at age 40. But what are you going to do?



Additionally, the way I see it, if we are talking about sex for love, then an enduring love should be able to handle not jumping into sex at a young age (in fact, may well handle waiting better than possibly "jumping in too soon" if one or both people weren't really ready for it).

agreed with your first bit

and wrt/ that second bit, my lady and i did indeed wait a number of months before doing it for the first time :) (still a young age but we were both 'ready' but waited for the benefit of our long term relationship)

You don't normally hug your friends? Okay... :fluffle:
;)
It's probably difficult to imagine any form of intimate physical contact if you're not very used to physical contact at all.

No, I don't usually hug friends. They've hugged me before, but it felt awkward to me.

That's probably my problem.


Maybe I can try to explain:

Imagine you're at school and the year has just started. You're sitting in maths class (I'm picking maths because it always was my worst subject. Insert your own worst subject anytime I type "maths" ;) ), the teacher's not there yet, and you're idly flipping through the new book. You open it somewhere in the middle, just to have a glance at the problems given there... and you suddenly feel that you never, ever going to be able to solve a single one of those. The numbers look weird, there are symbols you've never seen before, the whole thing looks scary. Then the teacher comes in and the lesson starts. He's doing some recap on the things you did the year before, some of the details are begining to come back to you now. Then he starts introducing some new problems, step by step, giving you the formulas, explaining it all to you.
A few months later, your class arrives at that page you glanced at on the first day of the year. And the problems turn out to be ridiculously simple after all.

Sex is the most intimate form of contact you can have with someone. If you're rather unfamiliar with physical contact on the whole, having sex would be like jumping in the deep end of the pool in an effort to learn to swim. It would be dangerous to say the least. Give it time, take it step by step. The first step would be to come across someone who you really like, and enjoy spending time with. Unlike school, this will follow no set curicullum, so there's no way of telling where or when it will happen. But it's very likely that it will some time. :)

That makes sense. So, it's sort of like "you can't understand calculus before you understand algebra", but "you can't understand sex without understanding basic physical contact, like hugs." Is that right?

Some people just can't help themselves. You tell them "I'm in love" and they throw statistics at you... ;)

78.9% of statistics are made up.

No, I don't usually hug friends. They've hugged me before, but it felt awkward to me.

i don't hug friends either. you're not alone.
and some friends have hugged me and i've never liked it.

however special-friends (girlfriend) are a different matter :P
finding someone like that you can get used to physical contact with could be good for you... holding hands, kissing, hugging... and moving on from there ;) (i was very nervous about all of that before doing them too, but now i'm told i was just a naturally good kisser :p)

i don't hug friends either. you're not alone.
and some friends have hugged me and i've never liked it.

however special-friends (girlfriend) are a different matter :P
finding someone like that you can get used to physical contact with could be good for you... holding hands, kissing, hugging... and moving on from there ;) (i was very nervous about all of that before doing them too, but now i'm told i was just a naturally good kisser :p)

I might find someone eventually. I don't know.

Depending on the study, 5-8% of females on the pill will become pregnant during the first year. (That's 1 in 20+) About 18% on the condom. ( That's about 1 in 5) About 85% when nothing is used. (That's 5 2/3 babies for every 1 that doesn't get pregnant)

Beyond that, I was a teen once, I know the feelings of maturity, I know the hormone drives,------ There are very few teens ready for the emotions that go along with the physical sex. Teens are not mature. I campaigned to lower the voting age (and thereby the age of majority) to 18. That was a mistake. The traditional 21 is really too young. You will disagree until you are old enough to look back.

My father is 57 and still NOT a mature person... How do you rate old enough?
Some people are too young their whole life, but no legislation can take this in account.

IMO the problem is in information, and parents COMMUNICATING with their children. Not in laws ruining a kid's life just because he followed an instinct.

BTW I live in Czech Rep., here the minimum consented age for having sex is 14. Otherwise it's child abuse.

Give an older person an order and their mind questions.

LOL!! Do you really beleve that? Read Orwell's 1984... And some history books.

Look, the Bible was written by God and God says no, uhuh, that's wrong. You believe otherwise, I guess that's fine, but ur going to hell. Plain and simple.
Besides, if you are arguing that you don't believe something that I read in the Bible, which, you are correct, it is a book, and your only defense is something you read in a book, well, that's hardly a good arguement. . .

Er... Please...
The Bible, according to any theologyst worth his shoes, was written by MEN! God inspired men but still men.
So make allowances for some typos, and a translation error here and there (unless you can read it in Aramaic).
Also keep in mind that MEN (St. Augustin and the other "fathers of the church") chose what should be part of the Bible (expecially the New Testament) and what SHOULDN'T!

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

I have a problem with potential procreation by people who can't even spell simple words like "pretty" correctly.

I am pretty biased on this topic. I fell in love when I was 14 and the girl never had sex with me and then she moved away and she still has not had sex with me and I am 30 now and she is married and I soon will be and I am so bummed out about it but not as bad as I used to be.

Because of my horrible experience, I think that anybody who is in love and isnt having sex is a very bad person.

:You're getting married but longing to have sex with someone else...........

How long do you expect to be married?

Personally, my first sexual experience was crappy (just before turned 15) - I'm so glad I was at least sensible enough to stop before it went further. But I learnt a hell of a lot from them, and changed, and grew.
And my current experiences (I'm now 16 btw) with a long-term, serious partner are wonderful, and I hold no regrets or misgivings :)
However, I could have easily gone down the path I started on, and that would have been truly awful for me.

I do think I'm an exception, and very lucky to have such a fantastic partner, and attitude, and experiences (especially being relatively young).

Let me understand this-----

At 15 you had a bad experience------

At 16 you have a-----Long Term, Serious Partner


I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

As long as it is both of those, then I don't see any problem. But then I would say that, being the wishy-washy liberal that I am...

Although there's an argument to be had on what age you have to be, in order to make an informed decision on something as central to adult life as sexuality.

i don't hug friends either. you're not alone.
and some friends have hugged me and i've never liked it.

however special-friends (girlfriend) are a different matter :P
finding someone like that you can get used to physical contact with could be good for you... holding hands, kissing, hugging... and moving on from there ;) (i was very nervous about all of that before doing them too, but now i'm told i was just a naturally good kisser :p)


I'm just the same. Well... ok with hugging friends, but I was always nervous around women. 'Til something actually happened. When I was 18.

When I say 'something happened', I mean, 'I got in to a sexual relationship with a girl, who loved me, and who I thought I loved. Then I changed my mind after a few months having come to the conclusion I was actually in it just for the sex, and hadn't realised before due to lack of experience. Then I split up with her. Which I still feel mildly bad about, despite it being three years ago.'

But that's for another... post... ah. Doh.

Use any search engine. You will get hundreds of hits. They will all say close to the same thing.Most refer to the same few articles actually.. Typically based on the 88 and 95 NSFG data.
And none seem to address the issues I brought up (like consistancy of contraceptive use, breaking it down according age, or frequency of sex).

Do a little study. Fine..
There's about 29 million young people in the US between the ages 13-19. 12 million of which having at least had intercourse once 1 (http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content2/teen.pregnancy.html)). Let's assume half are girls, so 6M. Now of the girls that have sex, 20.2% have unprotected sex (2 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3626504.pdf#search=%22teen%20pregnancy%20consistent%20contraceptive%20use%22)). Supposedly, 85% that have unprotected sex get pregnant. So 6M *20.2%*85% = 1.03 million pregnancies. Just from the girls that don't use contraceptives.
Now in total, each year, there are 1.1 million teenage pregnances for the ages 13-19.
That leaves 70k for the 79.8% contraceptive users, or a 1.46% failure rate, overall. And we can consider that only 58.4% report using contraceptives consistently. Now furthermore 43.7% use a condom as main contraceptive, supposedly it fails 15% per year giving 6.5% pregnancy, not 1.46. And we haven't even dealt with the other half.

So in short, the research is plainly inconsistent.
And the reason is, that the numbers don't tell the whole story and shouldn't be applied haphazardly.

The only problem with teen sex is that too many are doing it unprotected and having children. This has a great potential to ruin future plans and even lives.

My father is 57 and still NOT a mature person... How do you rate old enough?
Some people are too young their whole life, but no legislation can take this in account.


And what was he like at 15?

Legislation does little or no good on voluntary behavior. The question is what should a teen do?

Don't know many who have been there and now can reflect on being young that would say it's a good idea. I was pretty wild when I was young and "free". Could have been killed or ended up in jail many times but was lucky in that way. There are many things I now regret. I would hope that my children, and the young people on this forum, would not have the same regrets.

Remember your grandchildren will live 100 years from now. Part of how they live will depend on how your children are conceived and raised.

LOL!! Do you really beleve that? Read Orwell's 1984... And some history books.

Read 1984 many years ago. Don't know for sure how it applies here except when they had sex in the woods and were monitored doing it. They didn't choose to be monitored, that's just how the government insured safety and loyalty for government employees. Of course, 22 years later they probably monitored everyone, not just government workers.

Most refer to the same few articles actually.. Typically based on the 88 and 95 NSFG data.
And none seem to address the issues I brought up (like consistancy of contraceptive use, breaking it down according age, or frequency of sex).

Fine..
There's about 29 million young people in the US between the ages 13-19. 12 million of which having at least had intercourse once 1 (http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content2/teen.pregnancy.html)). Let's assume half are girls, so 6M. Now of the girls that have sex, 20.2% have unprotected sex (2 (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3626504.pdf#search=%22teen%20pregnancy%20consistent%20contraceptive%20use%22)). Supposedly, 85% that have unprotected sex get pregnant. So 6M *20.2%*85% = 1.03 million pregnancies. Just from the girls that don't use contraceptives.
Now in total, each year, there are 1.1 million teenage pregnances for the ages 13-19.
That leaves 70k for the 79.8% contraceptive users, or a 1.46% failure rate, overall. And we can consider that only 58.4% report using contraceptives consistently. Now furthermore 43.7% use a condom as main contraceptive, supposedly it fails 15% per year giving 6.5% pregnancy, not 1.46. And we haven't even dealt with the other half.

So in short, the research is plainly inconsistent.
And the reason is, that the numbers don't tell the whole story and shouldn't be applied haphazardly.

Me thinks he doth protest too much.

And what was he like at 15?

Legislation does little or no good on voluntary behavior. The question is what should a teen do?

Don't know many who have been there and now can reflect on being young that would say it's a good idea. I was pretty wild when I was young and "free". Could have been killed or ended up in jail many times but was lucky in that way. There are many things I now regret. I would hope that my children, and the young people on this forum, would not have the same regrets.

Remember your grandchildren will live 100 years from now. Part of how they live will depend on how your children are conceived and raised.

I'm in my 30s now, and I can honestly say I waish I had had sex sooner than I eventually did. I missed out on a lot in life, and I'm only now begining to realise that.
If I ever have kids, I'll make sure that they will not have to go through the same regrets I go through at the moment.

I'm in my 30s now, and I can honestly say I waish I had had sex sooner than I eventually did. I missed out on a lot in life, and I'm only now begining to realise that.
If I ever have kids, I'll make sure that they will not have to go through the same regrets I go through at the moment.

Ahh, but what if they want to wait?

"Ok kid... it's your 14th birthday, we're going to a whorehouse! yeeeehhaaaa! "

"But mom, do I haveta?"

:p

Ahh, but what if they want to wait?

"Ok kid... it's your 14th birthday, we're going to a whorehouse! yeeeehhaaaa! "

"But mom, do I haveta?"

:p

"It's either that or you'll have to watch some of our home porn movies again. Time for you to get active and get some exercise" :p


No, seriously, I don't mind if they start at 12 or 20, but I do hope they will do what's best for them and will have more self esteem and confidence than I had at that age. I want them to be happy and healthy.

"It's either that or you'll have to watch some of our home porn movies again. Time for you to get active and get some exercise" :p


No, seriously, I don't mind if they start at 12 or 20, but I do hope they will do what's best for them and will have more self esteem and confidence than I had at that age. I want them to be happy and healthy.
... watching mom and dad doing the deed... man that is Torture! :D

"Gee mom... I didn't know you were that Athletic.... :eek: " :D :D :D

Maybe it's just because I'm 15, or maybe it's because I'm a pritty liberal person, but I really don't see what is so bad about two teenagers having protected consentual sex with one another. It's only natural for people to want to do that, I mean, it's what 500,000 years of biological evolution is telling us to do.

Any thoughts?

Regardless of your misspellings, libral viewpoint and viewpoint as a teen trying to self-analyze... I have to reiterate a viewpoint which was unpopular previously:

I think society on the whole would benefit from encouraging people to marry younger. A thousand years ago it was perfectly normal to marry at 13. Boy, if you got to 20 you were almost a misfit. Much less 30 or 40, as is increasingly common today. I think it's created a society in which there is a lot of sexual tension, a lot of irresponsible sex, and a lot of people getting themselves in trouble over it. It'd be a lot easier on teens if it were normal for them to marry, have sex, and just be adults instead of hanging out in the angsty no-mans'-land of the current teen-age years.

Sex outside marriage is a different kettle of fish, of which i cannot approve. Teen sex sounds good to me, within the proper context.

... watching mom and dad doing the deed... man that is Torture! :D

"Gee mom... I didn't know you were that Athletic.... :eek: " :D :D :D

"I bet you didn't suspect daddy could bend that way, either, did you?"

Oh boy, am I going to be one cruel mom *lol

Regardless of your misspellings, libral viewpoint and viewpoint as a teen trying to self-analyze... I have to reiterate a viewpoint which was unpopular previously:

I think society on the whole would benefit from encouraging people to marry younger. A thousand years ago it was perfectly normal to marry at 13. Boy, if you got to 20 you were almost a misfit. Much less 30 or 40, as is increasingly common today. I think it's created a society in which there is a lot of sexual tension, a lot of irresponsible sex, and a lot of people getting themselves in trouble over it. It'd be a lot easier on teens if it were normal for them to marry, have sex, and just be adults instead of hanging out in the angsty no-mans'-land of the current teen-age years.

Sex outside marriage is a different kettle of fish, of which i cannot approve. Teen sex sounds good to me, within the proper context.

A society with a lot of sexual tension? Ah, yes, the good old days of raping Vikings, Ius Primae Noctis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_primae_noctis), arranged marriages between children, chastity belts and women in the constant happy state of pregnancy with the pleasurable prospect of an early death during childbirth. Those were the days, eh?

Seriously, people here are discussing if teenagers are responsible enough and emotionally ready for simple sex, and you suggest they'd be ready for a lifelong commitment???

I see about half the people on here are arguing against teen sex on the basis of teen pregnancy. Since men can't get pregnant, and women can't impregnate, I guess that gay teen sex is okay, then.

So, remember Billy, if you need a quick lay, just give little gay Johnny a call, even if you're in a committed relationship with Jane.

Oh, man, I haven't laughed so hard in a while.

Let me understand this-----

At 15 you had a bad experience------

At 16 you have a-----Long Term, Serious Partner


I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Oh dear! Someone who doesn't know me, and whose opinion means nothing to me, has decided they doesn't believe in the strength of my relationship! And they've made such a fantasic argument! I never realised all 16 year olds were equal in their emotional capacity and their way of dealing with relationships!

Whatever shall I do now?? :eek:





Seriously... what point was there in that post? (Well, apart from showing your inability to comprehend that there may exist 16 year olds who are capable of experiencing love, and maintaining a strong, healthy, hopefully long-lasting relationship.)

A society with a lot of sexual tension? Ah, yes, the good old days of raping Vikings, Ius Primae Noctis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_primae_noctis), arranged marriages between children, chastity belts and women in the constant happy state of pregnancy with the pleasurable prospect of an early death during childbirth. Those were the days, eh?

Seriously, people here are discussing if teenagers are responsible enough and emotionally ready for simple sex, and you suggest they'd be ready for a lifelong commitment???

I said a thousand years ago, not five hundred. In Israel, "coming of age" happened at 13. Currently, we idolize youth... there've been other cultures where that was the ideal too, and people spent their lives looking for the Elixir of Life or the Fountain of Youth - but it is not always the case. They wanted to be adults, not children. In China and surrounds, marriage was possibly even younger on average.

And I never said a constant state of pregnancy and lack of hygiene and medical science were good, and they are certainly not commensurate with a young average age for marriage

You mock me for suggesting they're ready not only for sex, but for a lifelong commitment, but I say we've done it for thousands of years, it's only very recently that's left being the norm. I'm the one with history on my side... you just have popular culture and psychyatry. I wonder who will win.

Oh dear! Someone who doesn't know me, and whose opinion means nothing to me, has decided they doesn't believe in the strength of my relationship! And they've made such a fantasic argument! I never realised all 16 year olds were equal in their emotional capacity and their way of dealing with relationships!

Whatever shall I do now?? :eek:





Seriously... what point was there in that post? (Well, apart from showing your inability to comprehend that there may exist 16 year olds who are capable of experiencing love, and maintaining a strong, healthy, hopefully long-lasting relationship.)


Print this off and put it in a safe place. Read it 10 years from now.

I said a thousand years ago, not five hundred. In Israel, "coming of age" happened at 13. Currently, we idolize youth... there've been other cultures where that was the ideal too, and people spent their lives looking for the Elixir of Life or the Fountain of Youth - but it is not always the case. They wanted to be adults, not children. In China and surrounds, marriage was possibly even younger on average.

And I never said a constant state of pregnancy and lack of hygiene and medical science were good, and they are certainly not commensurate with a young average age for marriage

You mock me for suggesting they're ready not only for sex, but for a lifelong commitment, but I say we've done it for thousands of years, it's only very recently that's left being the norm. I'm the one with history on my side... you just have popular culture and psychyatry. I wonder who will win.

Depends... if you fail to reinstate the social pressure to remain in a marriage even if you want to leave them, and to undo any form of divorce law, I'll win.

That makes sense. So, it's sort of like "you can't understand calculus before you understand algebra", but "you can't understand sex without understanding basic physical contact, like hugs." Is that right?

That's basically it. And you can never really "understand" sex. Well, you can, on a scientific basis, but the experience is not something to be understood, just to be enjoyed. But it has to be learned, too. You need to know how to enjoy your own body, and learn what your partner likes... it's a wide field indeed :)

Ahh, but what if they want to wait?

"Ok kid... it's your 14th birthday, we're going to a whorehouse! yeeeehhaaaa! "

"But mom, do I haveta?"
Anthony Keidias(SP) of RHCP fame.-_-

The only problem with teen sex is that too many are doing it unprotected and having children. This has a great potential to ruin future plans and even lives.
Yeah, I pretty much think the problem is that there are many adults in my country who are dedicated to making sure that teenagers know nothing about sex or safety, even though these ignorant teens are actually MORE likely to be engaging in sexual activities than if they were better informed.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a couple of 15-year-olds doing it. There's lots of things wrong with a couple of uninformed 15-year-olds having unprotected sex with no real understanding of how their bodies work or how they can deal with any problems that come up.

Seriously, people here are discussing if teenagers are responsible enough and emotionally ready for simple sex, and you suggest they'd be ready for a lifelong commitment???
Hell, I don't see why we are supposed to be "encouraging" people to get married at all. Marriage doesn't automatically make people more mature, more responsible, more loving, or more happy.

If you encourage immature, irresponsible, self-centered, and confused people to get married, you'll just end up with a bunch of fucked up marriages.

If you lie to people and tell them that marriage makes you a grown up, you'll end up with a bunch of infantile jackasses who think they're Big Kids now when they're really just the same infantile jackasses they were before they said the vows.

Marriage doesn't make relationships any more stable than they were to begin with. Marriage doesn't make sex any safer than it was to begin with.

And marriage sure as fuck does not make society any more stable or wholesome than it was to begin with.

Let me understand this-----

At 15 you had a bad experience------

At 16 you have a-----Long Term, Serious Partner


I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Why should you laugh or cry? Are you saying that a young person who has had a bad experience should not seek out a long-term serious partner any more? Or are you perhaps suggesting there is a time limit, a "mourning period" or something, during which time they should refrain from seeking better companionship?

Well, I currently have a 15 year old cousin who is several months pregnant, and a fourteen year old sister who might be as well.

Neither of whom are emotionally or physically capable of raising a child.

An excellent reason to support improved access to contraception and abortion.


Basically, sex has a decent chance of causing pregnancy. If you are not ready to raise a child, you should not engage in the act.
Pregnancy =/= having a child.

I think it's fair to say that if you aren't ready to deal with the reality of a pregnancy, you shouldn't be having hetero sex. However, pregnancy does not equate to having a child. I don't believe I will ever be ready to be a parent, which is why I will choose not to have children, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready for hetero sex. I'm ready to deal with any pregnancy I experience, and that is all that is necessary.

Also, a lot of people on this thread need to quit being so heterosexist. My girlfriend and I used to fuck like bunnies, and there was no way either of us was going to impregnate the other. ;) If pregnancy is the main concern in regards to teen sex, then I guess we ought to be encouraging kids to enter gay relationships as soon as possible!

Why should you laugh or cry? Are you saying that a young person who has had a bad experience should not seek out a long-term serious partner any more? Or are you perhaps suggesting there is a time limit, a "mourning period" or something, during which time they should refrain from seeking better companionship?

i like you, Bottle. you just cut through exactly what i was going to say, but in about 1/10th of the length and time i'd have taken to say it :p