NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...

I don't like vegetarians, they should all be tied up, sent to deathcamps, executed, incarcerated, tortured, and then fined $5. In that order. :p

Unless they're only not eating meat because they don't like the taste, I think Vegetarians are morons. Humans are omnivores. There is no way to counter that fact. We don't eat rocks or dirt, we eat things we kill. We kill in a more humane way than most of the other animals on Earth.

In short: eat meat, your body is built for it.

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...

It's projected guilt. They know their behaviour is immoral and that you are their better, so they try to degrade you instead of facing the truth about themselves. Pay it no attention.

Edit: "I think Vegetarians are morons." See. It's like a pathological need to assault what they can't attain.

I'm anywhere from indifferent to pissed the hell off, depending on how vocal they are about it. Just like Christians, really. I don't need anyone telling me how to run my life.

Unless they're only not eating meat because they don't like the taste, I think Vegetarians are morons. Humans are omnivores. There is no way to counter that fact. We don't eat rocks or dirt, we eat things we kill. We kill in a more humane way than most of the other animals on Earth.

In short: eat meat, your body is built for it.

We are built to eat meat sure, but we don't have to. I don't eat it because I don't have to to survive. Don't think we are all morons, the people who say we were never adapted to eat meat are, not all of us.

I don't care what you eat or don't eat. I hope you have the same attitude.

The single biggest gripe I have about vegetarians is that they treat it like some sort of religion and try to convert people.

It's projected guilt. They know their behaviour is immoral and that you are their better, so they try to degrade you instead of facing the truth about themselves. Pay it no attention.

Edit: "I think Vegetarians are morons." See. It's like a pathological need to assault what they can't attain.

Or maybe he's one of those that makes faces/comments/sounds whenever people are trying to eat their food and they just want him to go away.

My best friend is a vegetarian. I don't mind 'em, why would I?

Vegetarians are like any other people, except for the ones who try to force their views on others...

...Though that can be said for any person.

Or maybe he's one of those that makes faces/comments/sounds whenever people are trying to eat their food and they just want him to go away.

"Eat," stuff their faces with immeasurable suffering they are too weak to object to...

I don't care what you eat or don't eat. I hope you have the same attitude.

The single biggest gripe I have about vegetarians is that they treat it like some sort of religion and try to convert people.

I have no problem with other people eating it... I have the exact same gripe with people who do eat meat.

you have to have some real balls to not eat meat because of your personal beliefs especially with all the health risks (I honestly suspect a vegetarian friend has been damaged mentally by lack of protein)

Though it’s a bitch to constantly have to accommodate vegetarians (not at BBQ’s though because some vegetarian food is damn tasty!) I admire the will to do something you think is right regardless of your health (though you might just not like meat/have a medical problem)

Either way make sure you take those dandy pills so you can get all the nutrients you need and have all the nuts you want (full of protein not man nuts though)

I like vegetarians. Ive got a sister and mother who are vegetarian.

I wouldnt want to be one but I like em.

"Eat," stuff their faces with immeasurable suffering they are too weak to object to...
Why should I care if the animal suffered? If it tastes good, I'm going to eat it.

Why should I care if the animal suffered? If it tastes good, I'm going to eat it.

See. That's why I said vegetarians were your betters. Thank you for confirming it.

See. That's why I said vegetarians were your betters. Thank you for confirming it.
I'm amused by your lofty attitude. I will eat three dead cows in your name, Fass.

See. That's why I said vegetarians were your betters. Thank you for confirming it.

In our defense, other animals eat other animals.

And adding to our defense, the combine harvesters that harvest precious vegetables kill millions of animals every year, among them rabbits.

"Eat," stuff their faces with immeasurable suffering they are too weak to object to...


Riiiiiight. Someone off thier meds today? You actually just proved what I was saying. Thanks.

Riiiiiight. Someone off thier meds today?
LNI *looks around, then slowly raises hand*

"Eat," stuff their faces with immeasurable suffering they are too weak to object to...
Are you kidding?
Never took you for a vegitarian.

I'm indifferent.

Humans are omnivores, they can eat plants and/or meat. We can choose to eat plants and not meat. Vegetarians have that right, to choose what they eat.

But if they start going on about PETA... :mad:

I think we are awesome.

I've been one for 4 years now and my doctor said that whatever I am doing I should keep doing it. He was amazed when I told him I was a vegetarian.

It's no surprise that vegetarians were being insulted right away in this thread. It happens in every thread on NSG. In RL it is no different as you have found. Family, coworkers, friends and even waiters constantly give me a hard time about it while I have never once tried to convert anyone to vegetarianism.

It's probably all those hormones and steroids they inject into their animals that makes the people who eat them so aggressive :p

Did you know that gladiators were vegetarian?

And adding to our defense, the combine harvesters that harvest precious vegetables kill millions of animals every year, among them rabbits.

Is there really any feasible way for us to escape that though?

I feel bad about it. :(

Is there really any feasible way for us to escape that though?

I feel bad about it. :(

You could become survivalists.

or a fruitarian

or just eat organic foods that dont come from the mega farms that use such machines

farmers markets rule

Which vegitarians are we talking about?

- The Ones who do it in the name of food efficiency are really cool.

- The ones who do it because it "makes the animal suffer", but don't bug other people about it are silly, but not so bad.

- The ones who do it because it "makes the animal suffer" and feel the need to evangelize are obnoxious, moralizing fucks who I have no respect for.

- The ecoterrorist PETA types are the scum of the world.

:)

People are meant to eat meat. Look at our biology.

I actually like some of those veggie burgers (esp. the spicey ones). 'course they need to be in a sandwich with lettuce, bermuda onion, tomato and mayonaise.

Better than a substandard beef patty at least.

I like them. Their meat is usually juicier than people who eat meat. Some of them tend to exercise too, which makes the meat gamier and very good to eat.

Right, here's my vegetarian story:

I met my old friend and her new boyfriend at their shared apartment. My friend had never been a vegetarian all the years I'd known her, and hadn't mentioned anything about a change in her diet, so when we all eventually got hungry and the idea of a pizza floated around, I didn't pick up on what was going down.

What I'd noticed was that we seemed to lack some common ground where toppings were concerned - her beau wanted things like broccoli and artichoke hearts, while I wanted pepperoni and bacon. Any sort of concession involved getting a pizza sans yummy delicious meat toppings. Instead, I suggested we get two pizzas with the toppings of our choice, 'cause if I was gonna shell for half, I wanted a pizza I wanted to eat.

So forty minutes later, the pizzas arrive and old friend + old friend's boyfriend dig out some frankly rather filthy-looking dinner plates to eat the pizza. There's a pizza-cutter lying on the couter-top, I go to cut myself a few slices, when boyfriend says I can't use the knife. What? Thinking this is some gag of his that's falling flat, I again raise the knife to cut the pizza. Boyfriend rushes at me and takes the knife away. I look to my old friend. WTF? I say with my eyebrows.

Boyfriend then launches into this incredible tirade that lasts half an hour, telling me how he's a dedicated vegetarian, that I'm killing myself and the planet, that I'm lucky he even allowed a meat pizza into his home, and how dare I want to contaminate his cutlery and dishware by coming into contact with my filthy meat.

I politely took the time to point out that stainless steel implements are impermeable, and that small particles of meat would not, could not, can not - penetrate metal. I also told him that if anything would possibly be contaminated by the meat toppings, it would probably be the unsightly, built-up greasy gunge that seemed hard-baked onto absolutely every food-related utensil and/or object in his kitchen.

The fucker wouldn't give me anything to cut my damn pizza with! I had to use the edge of one of my credit cards to get the job done.




And that's my vegetarian story. Oh, except for this other time when the three of us met up for breakfast on a Saturday morning, but... maybe later.

I like them. Their meat is usually juicier than people who eat meat. Some of them tend to exercise too, which makes the meat gamier and very good to eat.


yep, we're less chemically and when you cut our stomachs open, it stinks less.

I'm indifferent.

Humans are omnivores, they can eat plants and/or meat. We can choose to eat plants and not meat. Vegetarians have that right, to choose what they eat.

But if they start going on about PETA... :mad:
Damn right. If they want to eat veggies only--power to them. But don't let me hear them start bitching about meat-eaters and how killing the cute aminals (purposefully spelled that way) is wrong and other such bullshit. Fuck 'em then.

Right, here's my vegetarian story:

I met my old friend and her new boyfriend at their shared apartment. My friend had never been a vegetarian all the years I'd known her, and hadn't mentioned anything about a change in her diet, so when we all eventually got hungry and the idea of a pizza floated around, I didn't pick up on what was going down.

What I'd noticed was that we seemed to lack some common ground where toppings were concerned - her beau wanted things like broccoli and artichoke hearts, while I wanted pepperoni and bacon. Any sort of concession involved getting a pizza sans yummy delicious meat toppings. Instead, I suggested we get two pizzas with the toppings of our choice, 'cause if I was gonna shell for half, I wanted a pizza I wanted to eat.

So forty minutes later, the pizzas arrive and old friend + old friend's boyfriend dig out some frankly rather filthy-looking dinner plates to eat the pizza. There's a pizza-cutter lying on the couter-top, I go to cut myself a few slices, when boyfriend says I can't use the knife. What? Thinking this is some gag of his that's falling flat, I again raise the knife to cut the pizza. Boyfriend rushes at me and takes the knife away. I look to my old friend. WTF? I say with my eyebrows.

Boyfriend then launches into this incredible tirade that lasts half an hour, telling me how he's a dedicated vegetarian, that I'm killing myself and the planet, that I'm lucky he even allowed a meat pizza into his home, and how dare I want to contaminate his cutlery and dishware by coming into contact with my filthy meat.

I politely took the time to point out that stainless steel implements are impermeable, and that small particles of meat would not, could not, can not - penetrate metal. I also told him that if anything would possibly be contaminated by the meat toppings, it would probably be the unsightly, built-up greasy gunge that seemed hard-baked onto absolutely every food-related utensil and/or object in his kitchen.

The fucker wouldn't give me anything to cut my damn pizza with! I had to use the edge of one of my credit cards to get the job done.




And that's my vegetarian story. Oh, except for this other time when the three of us met up for breakfast on a Saturday morning, but... maybe later.

Don't think we are all like that. He's an asshole.

Right, here's my vegetarian story:

I met my old friend and her new boyfriend at their shared apartment. My friend had never been a vegetarian all the years I'd known her, and hadn't mentioned anything about a change in her diet, so when we all eventually got hungry and the idea of a pizza floated around, I didn't pick up on what was going down.

What I'd noticed was that we seemed to lack some common ground where toppings were concerned - her beau wanted things like broccoli and artichoke hearts, while I wanted pepperoni and bacon. Any sort of concession involved getting a pizza sans yummy delicious meat toppings. Instead, I suggested we get two pizzas with the toppings of our choice, 'cause if I was gonna shell for half, I wanted a pizza I wanted to eat.

So forty minutes later, the pizzas arrive and old friend + old friend's boyfriend dig out some frankly rather filthy-looking dinner plates to eat the pizza. There's a pizza-cutter lying on the couter-top, I go to cut myself a few slices, when boyfriend says I can't use the knife. What? Thinking this is some gag of his that's falling flat, I again raise the knife to cut the pizza. Boyfriend rushes at me and takes the knife away. I look to my old friend. WTF? I say with my eyebrows.

Boyfriend then launches into this incredible tirade that lasts half an hour, telling me how he's a dedicated vegetarian, that I'm killing myself and the planet, that I'm lucky he even allowed a meat pizza into his home, and how dare I want to contaminate his cutlery and dishware by coming into contact with my filthy meat.

I politely took the time to point out that stainless steel implements are impermeable, and that small particles of meat would not, could not, can not - penetrate metal. I also told him that if anything would possibly be contaminated by the meat toppings, it would probably be the unsightly, built-up greasy gunge that seemed hard-baked onto absolutely every food-related utensil and/or object in his kitchen.

The fucker wouldn't give me anything to cut my damn pizza with! I had to use the edge of one of my credit cards to get the job done.




And that's my vegetarian story. Oh, except for this other time when the three of us met up for breakfast on a Saturday morning, but... maybe later.


ugh! now thats an annoying PETA vegetarian right there

Don't think we are all that that. He's an asshole.
He's perfect for PETA or ALF.

He's perfect for PETA or ALF.

I liked that show.

Meat is what people eat because people are carnivores, or omnivores, rather, by nature. If the vegetarians wish to deny their own biology to make some kind of political statement , more power to them. I just can't fathom why they must do it. Animals should be treated well when possible but it is confusing to me when people try to give them "rights".

I liked that show.
:D that made my day

I liked that show.
Y'know, I've never seen a single episode of it. Of course, when it was in 1st-run I lived out in the damned boonies and only got 3 channels.

I'm amused by your lofty attitude. I will eat three dead cows in your name, Fass.
http://illspirit.co.uk/fassburgers.jpg

I'm pretty indifferent. I was a vegetarian for about a year a while back, but I eat meat now. I still don't eat very much red meat, and recently I've been going back and forth on whether or not to cut out meat again. *shrug*

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2339

Interesting stuff. I am a member of the other PETA. People who eat tasty animals.

http://illspirit.co.uk/fassburgers.jpg
Please tell me that's photoshopped.

http://illspirit.co.uk/fassburgers.jpg

LOL, what an asshole... :p

Please tell me that's photoshopped.
Nope. I wanted some burgers. (They taste good, by the way. Dead animal good.)

I prefer Deadpool's point of view. (http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1889/captamericadeadpool5yr.jpg)

Captain America is my main man! Does anybody have statistics about what percent of Americans are vegetarians? I would find that interesting.

I had to babysit a vegan kid once and it got kind of frustrating because I couldn't even give him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I ended up having to go to an entirely different restaurant than everybody else to feed him whenever we went out for food. I guess I kind of traumatized him when we stepped into a mexican market that had a pig's head on display in the deli counter -tongue lolled out and eveything.

In the long run, though, I had to respect his family for their choice. I wouldn't make it my own choice though.

I had to babysit a vegan kid once and it got kind of frustrating because I couldn't even give him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I ended up having to go to an entirely different restaurant than everybody else to feed him whenever we went out for food. I guess I kind of traumatized him when we stepped into a mexican market that had a pig's head on display in the deli counter -tongue lolled out and eveything.

In the long run, though, I had to respect his family for their choice. I wouldn't make it my own choice though.

We can eat peanut butter and jelly. Peanut butter =/= butter. A lot of bread, especially if you're in a vegan household, is totally vegan too. White Wonder bread even.

what the hell is wrong with peanut butter and Jelly. You can't eat wheat, peanuts, and fruit?

I had to babysit a vegan kid once and it got kind of frustrating because I couldn't even give him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I ended up having to go to an entirely different restaurant than everybody else to feed him whenever we went out for food. I guess I kind of traumatized him when we stepped into a mexican market that had a pig's head on display in the deli counter -tongue lolled out and eveything.

In the long run, though, I had to respect his family for their choice. I wouldn't make it my own choice though.
You should have let him eat meat. And told him it was tofu...

Ugh. Preventing a kid from eating meat? Sounds like child abuse to my carnivorous, immoral, animal-eating ears.

Ugh. Preventing a kid from eating meat? Sounds like child abuse to my carnivorous, immoral, animal-eating ears.

Why are you so hostile? Why not relax about it, especially since most everyone else is pretty chill right now...

We can eat peanut butter and jelly. Peanut butter =/= butter. A lot of bread, especially if you're in a vegan household, is totally vegan too. White Wonder bread even.


I had thought peanut butter would be safe, but his parents insisted that it had animal fat in it or something regarding the oil -I can't quite remember.

Captain America is my main man! Does anybody have statistics about what percent of Americans are vegetarians? I would find that interesting.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20000301-000004.html
looks like it is saying one percent

other sources are saying from 2.8 to 4% but I like the conservative number because a lto of vegetarians say they are vegetarian when they most certainly are not because they are eating fish or chicken or jello.

I read somewhere that a million Americans a year are becomming vegetarian and that by 2005, 25 million Americans were supposed to be vegetarian.

I am in a decidedly non-vegetarian town and I keep seeing mroe and more vegetarian and raw food places cropping up.

My uncle is in the meat business and he said that vegetarianism is actually hurting his business.

Why are you so hostile? Why not relax about it, especially since most everyone else is pretty chill right now...
My hostility is generally in jest. Personally, I like meat. I don't care if you don't.

You should have let him eat meat. And told him it was tofu...

that would have most likely made the kid deathly ill

Why are you so hostile? Why not relax about it, especially since most everyone else is pretty chill right now...

yeah, even me for once. It must be odd for some people. BTW, I have no way of knowing, but is it risky to not let a kid eat meat? As far as healthy development? I know it can be risky to eat meat anyway! But what about what vegetarianism takes out of a diet of a growing kid?

I had thought peanut butter would be safe, but his parents insisted that it had animal fat in it or something regarding the oil -I can't quite remember.

My store brand creamy has: "Ingredients: Made with roasted peanuts and sugar, contains 2% or less of molasses, fully hydrogenated vegetable oils (rapeseed, cottonseed, and soybean), salt."

I guess I'll look out or something...

My store brand creamy has: "Ingredients: Made with roasted peanuts and sugar, contains 2% or less of molasses, fully hydrogenated vegetable oils (rapeseed, cottonseed, and soybean), salt."

I guess I'll look out or something...

Some sugar is refined with animal charcoal.

Vegearians are meh, but I hate vegans.

yeah, even me for once. It must be odd for some people. BTW, I have no way of knowing, but is it risky to not let a kid eat meat? As far as healthy development? I know it can be risky to eat meat anyway! But what about what vegetarianism takes out of a diet of a growing kid?

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/COLUMNNN/nn970528.html

Kids can lose out on much needed proteins if the parents don't fix up their diets right but vegetarians are often aware of dietary needs and make sure to get the right supplements

yeah, even me for once. It must be odd for some people. BTW, I have no way of knowing, but is it risky to not let a kid eat meat? As far as healthy development? I know it can be risky to eat meat anyway! But what about what vegetarianism takes out of a diet of a growing kid?

As long as you put back whats missing, it is very healthy. They definately have to be good, responsible parents about getting the kid the stuff he needs, though... kids need to grow.

I would like to ask a vegan where he lives, because if it is a house he displaced whatever animals lived their. That resulted in deaths, I guarentee it. Where have all the woods gone?

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/COLUMNNN/nn970528.html

Kids can lose out on much needed proteins if the parents don't fix up their diets right but vegetarians are often aware of dietary needs and make sure to get the right supplements


Doesnt that tell them somthing though? If you need to use supplements? It is taking a part of your natural diet out.

Interesting topic. Catch you all later.

I have to admit I've been less-than enamoured of late with the beef. Seems like there's some fairly gamey cowflesh been making the rounds. The last time this happened was after the Mad Cow scare a coupla years back. So, I've mostly switched over to veal instead.

These days though, I'm really favouring the pigmeat. God, I just can't put down the pig - it sings to me, just like the salmon and the tender juicy lambykins and the eminently flexible chickens, turkeys, cornish hens and - and -

http://www.freaknet.org.uk/pages02/archive/images/issue1.gif

Dude, I like this poll. Someone took my words and made them into a poll option!

I approve of this thread and accompanying thread :D

Doesnt that tell them somthing though? If you need to use supplements? It is taking a part of your natural diet out.

It is natural to eat meat, but we aren't forced to eat it because we live in a society that offers us the privilege not to. Theres nothing wrong with eating supplements...

I'm none of the above. I eat fish and some other seafood, but no other meat. I consume no dairy products, no white flour, no preservatives or synthetic additives, no msg, no hydrogenated oils, no artificial sweeteners and no refined salt or sugar. Only fresh, organic foods for me.

I suggest visiting the website below. It was hard to give up donuts and hamburgers, but it was worth it.

www.newstarget.com

My store brand creamy has: "Ingredients: Made with roasted peanuts and sugar, contains 2% or less of molasses, fully hydrogenated vegetable oils (rapeseed, cottonseed, and soybean), salt."

I guess I'll look out or something...

I haven't been able to find anything on the internet that would suggest the use of animal biproducts in the making of peanut butter. I've actually found more about peanut butter being a good source of protein in vegan diets. I was pretty young back then and just took it for granted that they were right. Either way, it was their decision and I wasn't about to go against their wishes.

Tonight I made buffalo burgers. Delicious!

Anyway, yeah. If you don't want to eat animals, fine, I won't bother you about it. Unless you bother me about eating them, in which case My Descendents Will Hunt And Devour Your Descendents.

My Descendents Will Hunt And Devour Your Descendents.

:p
Taking the side of the Morlocks I see...

:p
Taking the side of the Morlocks I see...

Better to eat than be eaten.

Better to eat than be eaten.
Mmmm. Eloi.

*drools*

Doesnt that tell them somthing though? If you need to use supplements? It is taking a part of your natural diet out.

I'm not sure if you know much about dietary health but meat eaters need to take supplements as well.

Besides, nutritionists suggest that you cut down on meat eating and consume a maximum of vegetarian items to reduce the risk of heart disease.

How much intelligence/skill does it take to sneak up on and catch a leaf?

Vegetarian is an old indian word for bad hunter.

Vegan is an old indian word for starving dumbass.

I try to minimize the amount of meat that I eat. On a good week, I'll eat meat maybe once or twice. On a bad week, 3-5 times. I would like to go fully vegetarian, but it's not practical. I don't do my own grocery shopping yet. I plan to go fully vegetarian fairly soon, though.

I try not to eat any actual meat (Including fish, fowl, etc.). I do eat dairy products/eggs/etc because no animals are killed to make them, but I try to minimize it. They're products of an animal, and so cruelty might (or might not) occur to the animals that produce it.

I don't try to force my beliefs on anybody at all. Nor do I tell anyone that I try not to eat meat, unless they specifically ask me about it. I realize that my actions will still (indirectly) harm animals. However, I can easily (and happily) reduce the harm that I directly cause through my eating habits. If it's such an easy choice, why should I not?

And I do realize that the entire world will never be vegetarian. However, that's not an excuse to contribute to the problem. I want to be part of the solution, even if it's impossible to reach. I DO NOT consider myself to be morally superior to non-vegetarians, and I get angry every time I am accused of this. I am NOT going to be vegetarian because of this. I am NOT going to be vegetarian because it's "trendy". It's a sincere (PERSONAL!) choice that I have made, and will be acting on soon. Disliking meat does NOT make you a condescending ass, and I would REALLY appreciate if CERTAIN people would keep this in mind. Blanket statements like that are almost always wrong.

EDIT: I love Maddox, and check his site about 4 times a week. But honestly, it's a HUMOR page. If you want to make a LEGITMATE argument against becoming Vegetarian, please use more creditable source to base your logic on. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but a lot of people use his qoutes in serious arguments, and it's very annoying.

I chose bananas. They are the best, and there's a shortage of them here at the moment :(

I chose bananas. They are the best, and there's a shortage of them here at the moment :(

Where are you? And is this the first indication of the coming cavendish banana plague?

I don't think of vegetarians....Except when I visit my sister's place, where yams are considered a full meal. I usually bring some kind of protein along, to keep me alive.

Where are you? And is this the first indication of the coming cavendish banana plague?

Australia, and no, there was a hurricane that tore up all our crop recently. :p

What on Earth would cause a person to be a vegan? It sounds rather insane.

What on Earth would cause a person to be a vegan? It sounds rather insane.
What on Earth would cause someone to jump off a sky scraper? It sounds rather insane.:D

Australia, and no, there was a hurricane that tore up all our crop recently. :p

Well that's a relief. (the no plague thing, not your no banana thing).

Seriously, a person posted before that a person might not eat a product because it was refined using heat from charcoal that might have animal remains as part of it. I just can't see the logic.

I'm not sure if you know much about dietary health but meat eaters need to take supplements as well.
Correction: People who don't eat a balanced diet need to take supplements.

People were meant to eat meat. To be a vegetarian is to attempt to deny one's own biology.

I, personally, am incapable of being a vegetarian or especially a vegan. Meat and fish are a substantial portion of my diet, though I try to eat more lean meat and avoid the really fatty stuff (like fast food chicken nuggets!). If I were a vegetarian, I wouldn't pay enough attention to making sure I got sufficient protein and everything. As it is, I exercise regularly and have quite low cholesterol and blood pressure. It helps that I'm young.

However, I think the best argument for vegetarianism is sustainability. The higher on the food chain you eat, the more resources are required to produce it. 100 calories of grain products require far, far less energy to produce than 100 calories of beef. We are burning rain forests to get more room for cattle grazing for McDonald's hamburgers. Incidentally, I haven't eaten at Mickey D's for over a year.

Vegetarianism is far more sustainable than meat-eating, and also helps guard against animal cruelty. If done properly, it has significant health benefits. It's not the only way, but it is a quite viable way.

Vegan is quite tasty with the right sauce

Vegetarianism is far more sustainable than meat-eating, and also helps guard against animal cruelty. If done properly, it has significant health benefits. It's not the only way, but it is a quite viable way.
Yeah...no. We're not burning or cutting down the rainforests because we have no room up here in the states, we're doing it because the land and labor there is cheaper. We've got plenty of room but we've got a little saying too, "Not In My BackYard". Kinda sucks for the rest of the world though, but we're at the top of the mountain and we're not budging.

Yeah...no. We're not burning or cutting down the rainforests because we have no room up here in the states, we're doing it because the land and labor there is cheaper. We've got plenty of room but we've got a little saying too, "Not In My BackYard". Kinda sucks for the rest of the world though, but we're at the top of the mountain and we're not budging.

Hey, any of those countries could stop us. They do not.

I think they're absolutely wonderful, particularly if they're properly cooked.

People are meant to eat meat. Look at our biology.

According to our biology, humans need one or two pieces of meat a week. EWating musch more is unhealthy. If you choose to eat more, you are therefor doing the same as the vegetarians, only the other way around.

EDIT: the unhealthy sentence was added to make the parallel more clear.

Hey, any of those countries could stop us. They do not.
If they cooperate they get money which they need very badly. If they don't, they get a crippling boycot and the label of 'backwards terrorist rogue state' or something like that. It's like we trun them into damn lepers if we don't get what we want. Really childish if you think about it.

According to our biology, humans need one or two pieces of meat a week.
If you choose to eat more, you are therefor doing the same as the vegetarians, only the other way around.

Well, you only need to drink once a week to stop yourself from dying. Eating meat is natural for people to do. Look at our teeth.

If they cooperate they get money which they need very badly. If they don't, they get a crippling boycot and the label of 'backwards terrorist rogue state' or something like that. It's like we trun them into damn lepers if we don't get what we want. Really childish if you think about it.

The blame goes to the South American countries the same as it would go to us if we opened our national parks to oil drilling. We would not be blaming others, we would be blaming ourselves.

Well, you only need to drink once a week to stop yourself from dying. Eating meat is natural for people to do. Look at our teeth.

I should have been clearer:
Eating much more than two pieces of meat a week is unhealthy. Considering the people that do not eat meat can compensate by eating supplements, but the people eating too much have no real options to correct for their overconsumption one can make the case that eating so much meat is much unhealthier than being a vegetarian.

I should have clearer:
Eating much more than two pieces of meat a week is unhealthy. Considering the people that do not eat meat can compensate by eating supplements, but the people eating too much have no real options to correct for their overconsumption one can make the case that eatng so much meat is much unhealthier than being a vegetarian.

I see your point. Is that accurate though? Eating meat once every 2 days is unhealthy? never heard that from mom. :D It might be true for all I know, considering the chemicals pumped into the stuff.

101 posts--err, vegetarians. That'd be a great movie. Just like the dizz-knee mvie except the vegetarians get eaten at the end.

Vegetarians are about 4% of America's population. Does this mean that we have a net surplus of 4% in the market of cows? I wonder if the extra ones just get shot and thrown in a ditch to rot. That would make vegetarianism rather pointless.

Vegetarians are about 4% of America's population. Does this mean that we have a net surplus of 4% in the market of cows? I wonder if the extra ones just get shot and thrown in a ditch to rot. That would make vegetarianism rather pointless.
We might have a net surplus of fish, but I don't think we could have a net surplus of cows . . .

How do you catch a cow?

We might have a net surplus of fish, but I don't think we could have a net surplus of cows . . .

How do you catch a cow?

With a really big net:D

In response to original post, it all depends on what you think about me.

Do you respect my right to eat meat? If so, then I have no problems with you at all.

If not, give me a call when you get to hell.

And I haven't read through all this thread, so the following may be totally pointless--yes, humans did evolve to eat meat.

How do you catch a cow?
Nah, nah, nah. I did this once. You dig a big hole in the ground then spook some at night. They fall into the hole and can't get out.

--yes, humans did evolve to eat meat.

Indeed. So to deny that is to deny one's own biology. Better get the big nets ready to catch some cows. :D

Well that's a relief. (the no plague thing, not your no banana thing).

Lol Yeah, at least I know there there are still bananas in other parts of the world :p

I couldn't care less what other people eat :).

I am gonna go in my backyard and dig a hole and wait for a tasty cow to fall in. :D

Your body. Your diet. Your business.
My body. My diet. My business.
'Nuff said.

The more I think of it the crazier vegetarianism seems.

I have not the slighest interest in what other people eat, unless it creates super-powers or orgasms. Vegitarians dont bother me as long as they dont glare at me while Im eating my steak (Makes me want to order 3 more). Your diet, my diet: recognize the difference and we're all good.

I've been vegetarian in the past, had to relent for reasons I'd rather not discuss, but I'll probably return to it at uni.:D

Mmmmmmmmmm... suffering....

You people are smart, right? You knows stuff, yes? Maybe it's just this way in the UK but when I go to McDonald's I tend to turn the placemat thing over and read the nutritional info on the backand one thing bothers me.. Why is the strawberry the only milkshake that isn't suitable for vegetarians?

Too stringy & chewy for my tastes.

I got nuthin against vegetarians.

But Vegans, however.....those guys are fools.

If everyone was a vegetarian there would be no need for animals. no pigs, no cows (even for milk if the damn vegans got their way). Yeah, killing animals isnt nice, but they are bred for that very purpose. its not as though if we didnt eat them then theyd live happy lives and die of old age, they just wouldnt be born at all. how the hell is that better?

I can't believe what I'm hearing! How could anyone even think of killing and eating a poor, helpless, litttle cow or lamb or chicken? You make me sick.

I can't believe what I'm hearing! How could anyone even think of killing and eating a poor, helpless, litttle cow or lamb or chicken? You make me sick.
Lamb is one of my favourite types of meat. Next to beef, ham, pork, chicken, turkey, veal, venison, horse, zebra, gazelle, alligator, kangaroo, crocodile, bison, wild boar, springbok, blesbok, kudu, eland, impala, wildebeast, camel, rattlesnake, pidgeon, duck, guinea fowl, water fowl, ostrich, frog, octopus and lion. All of which I've tasted. Including lion, which is technically illegal.

I can't believe what I'm hearing! How could anyone even think of killing and eating a poor, helpless, litttle cow or lamb or chicken? You make me sick.
You eat them alive!! :eek:

I am not going to mock somebody's diet. ...Any more than I would mock anything else. :)

However, I would like to say that there is no such thing as a vegan.

Plants eat animals; Or their remains, biowaste, etc. So by eating plants, we eat that which ate animals. It's the Circle of Life, Simba. :)

I find it a bit hypocritical that so many vegetarians are for abortion.

If everyone was a vegetarian there would be no need for animals. no pigs, no cows (even for milk if the damn vegans got their way). Yeah, killing animals isnt nice, but they are bred for that very purpose. its not as though if we didnt eat them then theyd live happy lives and die of old age, they just wouldnt be born at all. how the hell is that better?

I'd much rather not be alive than live life as a battery hen, I'll tell you that much.

I find it a bit hypocritical that so many vegetarians are for abortion.

Why? A fetus before 20 something weeks has no way to feel pain, but animals do. We aren't against death, we are against suffering. I'd be for an animal's abortion if she could somehow vocalize that she needed it...

Edit: Oh, and lets not turn this into an abortion thread.

Well, in my opinion most vegetarians are rather misguided, as they are missing out on one of the great things about being human: Being the number one predator in the entire history of the Earth. It's part of our species, our history, we eat what we like, because we can. We owe no allegiance to the lower species which we have bested, and we should eat them as a celebration of our victory, and our dominance over the kingdom of animals!

(wow, that's a weird comment on my part)

Why? A fetus before 20 something weeks has no way to feel pain, but animals do. We aren't against death, we are against suffering. I'd be for an animal's abortion if she could somehow vocalize that she needed it...

Edit: Oh, and lets not turn this into an abortion thread.

You don't speak for all vegetarians though do you. Many vegetarians are against the killing of an animal weather it suffers or not.

Why? A fetus before 20 something weeks has no way to feel pain, but animals do. We aren't against death, we are against suffering. I'd be for an animal's abortion if she could somehow vocalize that she needed it...

Edit: Oh, and lets not turn this into an abortion thread.
So, if the animal didn't suffer, you'd be okay with meat eating? Say, what if we genetically engineered a cow that didn't have pain nerve receptors. Would that be okay?

So, if the animal didn't suffer, you'd be okay with meat eating? Say, what if we genetically engineered a cow that didn't have pain nerve receptors. Would that be okay?

It'd be gross, but yes that would be ok. Get rid of a lot of other brain activity as well, like emotions and such.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/03/1711985_comment.php

Heres an interesting article about something similar I'm all for...

It'd be gross, but yes that would be ok. Get rid of a lot of other brain activity as well, like emotions and such.
But cows aren't sentient, and therefore they cannot have emotions...

It's only us, chimps, possibly dolphins and possibly grey parrots in that club.

Simply put, here's how it goes.

Vegetarian who doesn't want to eat animals but won't try to tell other people not to eat animals - Fine by me (knew someone like that in RL)

Vegan who believes in not using animals for food in any way but won't tell other people they can't do the same - Fine by me (knew someone in HS like that)

Militant vegetarian who condemns meat-eaters - Get over yourself (thankfully, don't know anyone like this)

Completely off-one's-gourd vegan nut job who refuses to eat anything that's cooked or anything that came from animals, spends all their time "sungazing", and has a spouse who works 15-hour days who has to cook and clean for themselves and the entire family because their nut job spouse can't be bothered to do either despite not working or anything - Get a job, buy and oven, and roast a turkey in it (real case of a woman on ABC's "Wife Swap" whose husband worked 15 hours a day but had to cook and clean for himself anyway because all his wife would do all day was "sungaze.")

Meat-eaters who condemn non-meat-eaters for whatever reason - Shut the hell up

Meat-eaters who condemn militant vegetarians - Fine by me

meat-eaters who condemn all vegetarians as militant - A big fat liar

Why? A fetus before 20 something weeks has no way to feel pain, but animals do. We aren't against death, we are against suffering. I'd be for an animal's abortion if she could somehow vocalize that she needed it...

Edit: Oh, and lets not turn this into an abortion thread.

Oh, and shoving some tweesers in the womb... crushing the head and twisting it off then scooping up the remains of the baby is not suffering?

But cows aren't sentient, and therefore they cannot have emotions...

It's only us, chimps, possibly dolphins and possibly grey parrots in that club.
:rolleyes:

But cows aren't sentient, and therefore they cannot have emotions...

It's only us, chimps, possibly dolphins and possibly grey parrots in that club.
Nah, I'd pretty much say all mammals have emotions to some degree. My dog does, certainly, as does my cat. It's just that some animals have body language that humans find it difficult to interpret.

Oh, and shoving some tweesers in the womb... crushing the head and twisting it off then scooping up the remains of the baby is not suffering?
Using the weasel word of "baby" in a context where there is no such entity present does not advance your argument. In any case, this is not a thread on abortion. Get on topic or leave.

Oh, and shoving some tweesers in the womb... crushing the head and twisting it off then scooping up the remains of the baby is not suffering?
Pretty much. Yeah.

Using the weasel word of "baby" in a context where there is no such entity present does not advance your argument. In any case, this is not a thread on abortion. Get on topic or leave.

I am not against abortion, i am just saying that it is hypocritical for a vegetarian to be against it because it "doesn't suffer".

I am not against abortion, i am just saying that it is hypocritical for a vegetarian to be against it because it "doesn't suffer".

Don't troll. :(

:fluffle:

:rolleyes:
Quite the meaningful response.

Don't troll. :(

:fluffle:

How is that trolling?

Quite the meaningful response.

You said something rediculous that I had nothing I wanted to say back to, but to express that I thought you were being rediculous. You have an unfounded bias against animals, and theres nothing I can say to change your mind.

Nah, I'd pretty much say all mammals have emotions to some degree. My dog does, certainly, as does my cat. It's just that some animals have body language that humans find it difficult to interpret.
And to that I'd charge that you're anthropomorphizing your pets.

Your dog and your cat are perfectly evolved to survive by mooch. There are characterisitics to their behavior that endear them greatly to modern human beings. Behaviors that can be easily misconstrued as emotions.

How is that trolling?

You're bringing it up just to tell me I'm a hypocrite. You aren't trying to benefit the discussion, you're just trying to piss people off. Let's keep this friendly, please.

I don't want a flame thread, let's stop this.

You're bringing it up just to tell me I'm a hypocrite. You aren't trying to benefit the discussion, you're just trying to piss people off. Let's keep this friendly, please.

I don't want a flame thread, let's stop this.

I never brought it to piss anyone off, but to make a point and understand what their reasoning is of it.

"You aren't trying to benefit the discussion, you're just trying to piss people off." Thats probably the biggest flame in the whole thread.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I admire them, and may become one someday. I don't think I could become a vegan, but I admire them, too.

you have to have some real balls to not eat meat because of your personal beliefs especially with all the health risks (I honestly suspect a vegetarian friend has been damaged mentally by lack of protein)It's entirely possible to get enough protein while being a vegetarian; your friend is simply not eating a proper vegetarian diet.

How much intelligence/skill does it take to sneak up on and catch a leaf?How much intelligence/skill does it take to shoot something that can't shoot back?

I see your point. Is that accurate though? Eating meat once every 2 days is unhealthy? I'm not certain if it is or not, but most Americans eat way more meat than they need to.

People were meant to eat meat. To be a vegetarian is to attempt to deny one's own biology.I don't see this as being any worse than to deny one's own biology by not having as much sex as possible.

Well, in my opinion most vegetarians are rather misguided, as they are missing out on one of the great things about being human: Being able to deny our instincts?

You said something rediculous that I had nothing I wanted to say back to, but to express that I thought you were being rediculous. You have an unfounded bias against animals, and theres nothing I can say to change your mind.
Unfounded? What a comical charge. Is science unfounded my dear friend?

Researchers have shown that there is a difference between emotions as sentient beings experience them, and the affective behavior of animals. Ignoring the facts of the matter does not change the facts.

Unfounded? What a comical charge. Is science unfounded my dear friend?

Researchers have shown that there is a difference between emotions as sentient beings experience them, and the affective behavior of animals. Ignoring the facts of the matter does not change the facts.

Science shows that animals do have emotions, and are more the same than you think. Again, we aren't going to get anywhere in this, as I've read and seen enough to convince me of this, and you've read enough to convince you of your position, and we both feel too strongly to change.

How much intelligence/skill does it take to shoot something that can't shoot back?
Aye, but how much intelligence and skill were required to get to the point where a gun was a possibility. How much intelligence and skill went into making that gun? The mere loading of the gun is far more than any other animal on earth can do.

I'm not certain if it is or not, but most Americans eat way more meat than they need to.
Need is a very poor basis on which to decide something.


Being able to deny our instincts?
Denying one's instincts to a point is good for society, but excessive denial of instincts leads to individual unhappiness.

Why does it matter to people what other people eat? Many vegetarians I know became vegetarians as a protest against cruelty to animals and sadly, they don't really have the stomach for hunting their own meat. Some eat free range chicken. Is there really a problem with having less cruel slaughterhouses?

Denying one's instincts to a point is good for society, but excessive denial of instincts leads to individual unhappiness.

But if being vegan leads me to happiness, isn't that ok, if I'm not stopping you?

Seriously, a person posted before that a person might not eat a product because it was refined using heat from charcoal that might have animal remains as part of it. I just can't see the logic.

The cane juice, from which the sugar is made, gets filtered through charcoal made from bones. Some of the charcoal (animal bones) gets into the sugar.

Aye, but how much intelligence and skill were required to get to the point where a gun was a possibility. How much intelligence and skill went into making that gun? The mere loading of the gun is far more than any other animal on earth can do.And if the gun was created solely to kill animals and not to kill other humans then there might be a correlation, however hunting is simply a secondary use of guns.

Need is a very poor basis on which to decide something.It's vastly superior than want; want should only be used when needs are fulfilled.

Denying one's instincts to a point is good for society, but excessive denial of instincts leads to individual unhappiness.Certainly true, so if people ate only a few servings of meat a week, it would be denying one's instincts to a point that is good for society but not excessive.

I am a vegetarian and I get irritated by non-veggies who "project guilt" as Baquetten put it.

Seriously, if you like the taste of meat and you want to it for that reason, then say so and eat meat for all I care because it is your personal decision to do so.....but don't give BS excuses like how you are "designed" to eat meat (oh poor me...bwaaaahhh....I cannot make decision for myselves based on my conscience...I HAVE to eat meat cuz I am DESIGNED so....bwaaahhhh)...

I do not eat at fast food restaurants in protest at the way they treat the animals.

I do, however, have no ethical quandries with meat, eat steak and chops from my college cafeteria, and would even take up farming chickens myself if required.

I reckon the American Indians had the right approach; respect the animals in life, take only what you need from death and use all that you take.

We might have a net surplus of fish, but I don't think we could have a net surplus of cows . . .

How do you catch a cow?

http://www.locomotivegeneral.com/generalparts/images/CowCatcher.jpg

But if being vegan leads me to happiness, isn't that ok, if I'm not stopping you?
Of course.

I'm just charging that your understanding of sentience and emotion is incorrect. If you don't like animal products, then more power to you, just make sure you get enough soy and bean products. Unhealthy people make me unhappy.

And if the gun was created solely to kill animals and not to kill other humans then there might be a correlation, however hunting is simply a secondary use of guns.
My point is not the purpose of guns, just the level of skill and intelligence required to make and operate a gun.

It's vastly superior than want; want should only be used when needs are fulfilled.
Bah, need, much as want, is subjective. I would consider them to be, by and large, the same thing.

Certainly true, so if people ate only a few servings of meat a week, it would be denying one's instincts to a point that is good for society but not excessive.
And what insights do you have regarding what is good for society and what isn't?

My point is not the purpose of guns, just the level of skill and intelligence required to make and operate a gun.It's debatable whether or not making the gun was intelligent or not.

Bah, need, much as want, is subjective. I would consider them to be, by and large, the same thing.Not exactly. There are things required to sustain life; needs, if you will.

And what insights do you have regarding what is good for society and what isn't?Long-term sustainability. As has been pointed out, the land required for meat is much larger than the land required for vegetables.

I didn't vote as I judge each person indidivually. Some vegetarians are great, some annoy me by teling others what they should and shouldn't do - voicing your opinion is one thing, holding up a "meat is murder" sign in front of a chippy is another. I am vegan, but I have no problem with meat-eaters - it's your choice, not mine.

But I just though I'd stick in some evidence that being vegan or vegetarian is HEALTHY:

(a) BBC News http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/782959.stm

(b) Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine http://www.pcrm.org/news/release041202.html

(c) Swedish Study from the Division of Nutritional Epidemiology, The National Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm (SCL and AW), and the Department of Surgery and the Center for Clinical Research, Uppsala University, Central Hospital, Västerås, Sweden (LP), printed in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/5/1353

(d) BBC Health Section http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/awareness/veggie.shtml#why

(e) Registered Educational Charity: The Vegetarian Society of the United Kingdom http://www.vegsoc.org/info/health1.html

I am a vegetarian and I get irritated by non-veggies who "project guilt" as Baquetten put it.

Seriously, if you like the taste of meat and you want to it for that reason, then say so and eat meat for all I care because it is your personal decision to do so.....but don't give BS excuses like how you are "designed" to eat meat (oh poor me...bwaaaahhh....I cannot make decision for myselves based on my conscience...I HAVE to eat meat cuz I am DESIGNED so....bwaaahhhh)...
It's the counter to the idiot vegans who say humans were never supposed to eat meat. And yes--some of them do say such an idiotic thing.

Bacon makes everything taste better.

It's debatable whether or not making the gun was intelligent or not.
A subjective decision.

Not exactly. There are things required to sustain life; needs, if you will.
Of course they are only required if one desires to sustain life. Once again, the matter is quite subjective. I've run into at least one individual who did not desire to sustain their own life, and therefore had no need of foodstuffs or water. Fortunately the doctors did not allow them to get away with that. Hells yeah for the feeding tubes! As a sentient being we have the ability to decide whether we wish to live or not, and if we wish to live, then we'd want certain things. (and we have to work for them as well)

Long-term sustainability. As has been pointed out, the land required for meat is much larger than the land required for vegetables.
Of course, quite often the land used to raise meat is not good land for growing vegetables. Beef farms, in Ohio for example, are often cut across by deep ravines and steep hills. Covered with wooded area as well. The area is suitable for raising beef cattle, but not for the mass growing of crops.

I don't care what you eat or don't eat. I hope you have the same attitude.

The single biggest gripe I have about vegetarians is that they treat it like some sort of religion and try to convert people.
Tends to be my opinion and experience as well

Whatever you like to eat dude

But they (at least thoes I know) are never content with letting me do the same.

In the end I like vegitarians that convert because of health reasons rather then moral ones. They to me tend to be less likly to preach

It's the counter to the idiot vegans who say humans were never supposed to eat meat. And yes--some of them do say such an idiotic thing.


the counter is out of balance.

I know - I am a vegetarian and for 4 years I have put up with crap from meat eaters.

when I was eating meat I have never met anyone who put me down for eating meat. I had never had my diet questioned.

These PETA vegan assholes are such a small minority that I've never even met one. (EDIT: and I have moved around the country living in big cities as well as small towns)

meat eaters are disproportionally assholish to vegetarians/vegans.

the counter is out of balance.

I know - I am a vegetarian and for 4 years I have put up with crap from meat eaters.

when I was eating meat I have never met anyone who put me down for eating meat. I had never had my diet questioned.

These PETA vegan assholes are such a small minority that I've never even met one. (EDIT: and I have moved around the country living in big cities as well as small towns)

meat eaters are disproportionally assholish to vegetarians/vegans.
I dont know I have taken some shit in my day for eating meat but I have a lot of friends of friends that are vegetarian

In the end may it not just be that there are more of us? which is why you hear about it more?

How can they tell you are vegetarian anyways? I have had so many non vegitarian friends have a salid for lunchor something anyways it would be hard for me to tell without them telling me

I dont know I have taken some shit in my day for eating meat but I have a lot of friends of friends that are vegetarian

In the end may it not just be that there are more of us? which is why you hear about it more?

How can they tell you are vegetarian anyways? I have had so many non vegitarian friends have a salid for lunchor something anyways it would be hard for me to tell without them telling me

I was friends with several vegetarians too when I lived in Los Angeles and never caught any grief for my diet.

People find out I am vegetarian when I get asked when going out with family/friends/coworkers why I am not eating meat in my sammich or whatever, or when I go to someones house and they offer to make me something to eat or I'm invited for something or other that involves meat.

Or I'll ask the waiter if a soup has beef broth in it or something and I even get shit from waiters!!!!

It is entirely possible that it is the amount of meat eaters versus vegetarians in my life as most certainly I am a minority, but the meating family/friends/coworkers/waiters that give me shit for my diet versus the ones that dont is high.

It's enough to make a person want to go off on peopel for eating meat just for revenge, not that I care what people eat but it might feel good just to show them how it fucking feels to be constantly harassed for what you decide to eat. It's especially annoying coming from family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I cant tell you how many times I've heard:

You don't know what you're missing (Yes I fucking do I ate meat most of my life)

how could you not eat meat? It's so goooood.

mmm steak

mmm bacon

for every animal you dont eat I am going to eat 3. yuk yuk yuk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and thats the tame stuff.

these are all said in a way where you know the person is looking down on your diet.

I was friends with several vegetarians too when I lived in Los Angeles and never caught any grief for my diet.

People find out I am vegetarian when I get asked when going out with family/friends/coworkers why I am not eating meat in my sammich or whatever, or when I go to someones house and they offer to make me something to eat or I'm invited for something or other that involves meat.

Or I'll ask the waiter if a soup has beef broth in it or something and I even get shit from waiters!!!!

It is entirely possible that it is the amount of meat eaters versus vegetarians in my life as most certainly I am a minority, but the meating family/friends/coworkers/waiters that give me shit for my diet versus the ones that dont is high.

It's enough to make a person want to go off on peopel for eating meat just for revenge, not that I care what people eat but it might feel good just to show them how it fucking feels to be constantly harassed for what you decide to eat. It's especially annoying coming from family.


I can deffinatly understand you disliking it as much as I dislike trying to be "converted" ... thats why I am of the "meh whatever you want to put in your mouth" catagory

Humans used to be vegetarians before they had hand tools. Their teeth were large and mostly flat so they could grind down plants to be easier to digest. Then they developed rock tools, and began to eat dead animals - their tools weren't strong enough and they weren't intelligent enough to be able to hunt living animals at this point. As they evolved, their brains grew and teeth sharpened, and their tool technology advanced into hand tools and further into metal casting, starting with copper.

So, in short: Meat is tasty, eat it.

one more thing - if we are designed to eat meat, prove it. go kill a cow and eat it (raw) using nothing but yourself. THEN i might believe you. or if we start growing fangs.

NB I don't really want anyone to kill animals :)

one more thing - if we are designed to eat meat, prove it. go kill a cow and eat it (raw) using nothing but yourself. THEN i might believe you. or if we start growing fangs.

NB I don't really want anyone to kill animals :)

Apes kill and eat meat using only their body. We're not all that different.

one more thing - if we are designed to eat meat, prove it. go kill a cow and eat it (raw) using nothing but yourself. THEN i might believe you. or if we start growing fangs.

NB I don't really want anyone to kill animals :)
humans evolved as tool users we use tools asking someone to do something "by hand" does not prove or disprove their fitness to injest meat.

There are a lot of things we could not do without tools ... we would NEVER had made it as a speicies without our ability to use tools, does that mean we should not be living?

one more thing - if we are designed to eat meat, prove it. go kill a cow and eat it (raw) using nothing but yourself. THEN i might believe you. or if we start growing fangs.

NB I don't really want anyone to kill animals :)

Back when we first started eating meat, our appendix was used to filter out the bacteria and keep us from getting horrible food poisoning. Since we've become more careful about what we eat, our appendix has gone limp and useless.

I can deffinatly understand you disliking it as much as I dislike trying to be "converted" ... thats why I am of the "meh whatever you want to put in your mouth" catagory


exactly - I am in that catagory as well. My point was that, in my many years of experience as both omnivore and vegetarian, the balance of who is assholish to who when it comes to diet disproportionally falls on the side of meat eaters who are fucknuts to vegetarians, and it isn't in response to me tryign to convert anyone else to vegetarianism or acting high and mighty becaue of my diet, but simply in response to finding out what my diet is.

A subjective decision.Yes, I can agree with that.

Of course they are only required if one desires to sustain life. Once again, the matter is quite subjective. I've run into at least one individual who did not desire to sustain their own life, and therefore had no need of foodstuffs or water. Fortunately the doctors did not allow them to get away with that. Hells yeah for the feeding tubes! As a sentient being we have the ability to decide whether we wish to live or not, and if we wish to live, then we'd want certain things. In which case the needs of life aren't subjective, but the choice to live is.

(and we have to work for them as well)Certainly, in places where there is no right to life.

Of course, quite often the land used to raise meat is not good land for growing vegetables. Beef farms, in Ohio for example, are often cut across by deep ravines and steep hills. Covered with wooded area as well. The area is suitable for raising beef cattle, but not for the mass growing of crops.If trees can grow there, then perhaps the area could be an orchard?

Yes, I can agree with that.

In which case the needs of life aren't subjective, but the choice to live is.

Certainly, in places where there is no right to life.

If trees can grow there, then perhaps the area could be an orchard?
No ... our grazing land up here is pretty useless for foodstuff growing (which is why it is not used for fields)

It is eater on such a sloap that things have an issue or it is in low soft spots or of varing wetness... in the end about the only thing it is good for is grass and cows and woods.

In minnesota there is not many "orchards" either ... maybe some apple tree's but they tend to be the type no one likes to eat strait up they are pie making apples that grow best up here

No ... our grazing land up here is pretty useless for foodstuff growing (which is why it is not used for fields)

It is eater on such a sloap that things have an issue or it is in low soft spots or of varing wetness... in the end about the only thing it is good for is grass and cows and woods.

In minnesota there is not many "orchards" either ... maybe some apple tree's but they tend to be the type no one likes to eat strait up they are pie making apples that grow best up hereWell then, lots of pies and applesauce for you guys, then. :)

yeah I think the free range farming should be encouraged as much as possible. I believe its a much better/healthier/more humane method for farming animals.

Well then, lots of pies and applesauce for you guys, then. :)
We do grow a fair ammount ...

But like I said things are so hilly our grazing land as is slopes down to a lake or bordering a swamp. and the growing season here is on the short side (not bad for corn or a winterwheet but some of the better fruits and stuff that MAY grow there would be an issue)

In the end I am happy that it is grass and woods and the cattle keep it beautifull

yeah I think the free range farming should be encouraged as much as possible. I believe its a much better/healthier/more humane method for farming animals.
Which is what we do here ... though they DO end up inside in the winter ... when it reached 30 below here cows ... um die of cold. So durring the worst months we have to keep them warm

But its out to the pasture to roam around soon as it is safe

I like vegetarians just fine, usually. I don't think the proportion of asshole vegetarians is any higher than the proportion of assholes in the general population.

Living with a vegetarian got me to try all sorts of recipes I wouldn't have even thought of, and made me realize that I really like portabello mushrooms and eggplant. =)

And I've only ever had one person, at dinner, make a big deal out of the fact that I was eating meat.

I can say this, if you are truly trying to stay absolutely meat free (or definitely if you go the vegan route), it isn't easy to do at restaurants. I used to work at a Tex-mex restaurant and there was very little on the menu that we could reccomend to vegans. We would have to make their tortillas separately (without animal products). The rice had meat or meat broth or something in it. The regular beans had bacon in them - a vegan had to get the black beans. And so on... We did have some kick-ass veggie fajitas though (although vegans had to specifically ask for them without butter).

yeah I think the free range farming should be encouraged as much as possible. I believe its a much better/healthier/more humane method for farming animals.

And, although some vegetarians and vegans might not like me saying so, you really can taste the difference.

I'm anywhere from indifferent to pissed the hell off, depending on how vocal they are about it. Just like Christians, really. I don't need anyone telling me how to run my life.

I couldn't have put it any better, but ditto. :)

I like vegetarians just fine, usually. I don't think the proportion of asshole vegetarians is any higher than the proportion of assholes in the general population.

Living with a vegetarian got me to try all sorts of recipes I wouldn't have even thought of, and made me realize that I really like portabello mushrooms and eggplant. =)

And I've only ever had one person, at dinner, make a big deal out of the fact that I was eating meat.

I can say this, if you are truly trying to stay absolutely meat free (or definitely if you go the vegan route), it isn't easy to do at restaurants. I used to work at a Tex-mex restaurant and there was very little on the menu that we could reccomend to vegans. We would have to make their tortillas separately (without animal products). The rice had meat or meat broth or something in it. The regular beans had bacon in them - a vegan had to get the black beans. And so on... We did have some kick-ass veggie fajitas though (although vegans had to specifically ask for them without butter).

It's true - finding vegetarian items is difficult or limited in most places.

WHen I first became a vegetarians I foudn ti difficult to come up with meals to make but now it's easy.

And, although some vegetarians and vegans might not like me saying so, you really can taste the difference.

that is so true. it's way better tasting. I forgot to add that part.

Also, even as a vegetarian I always liked the joke: If god didn't want us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?

I'm indifferent to vegetarians. The only ones i dont like are the ones who are totally anal about it and act like my eating meat is evil. Those ones i laugh at.The only time they really get onmy nerves is Thanksgiving (I have a vegetarian aunt. She always trys to get us to eat tofurkey which is just plain unamerican!

the counter is out of balance.
No it isn't.


I know - I am a vegetarian and for 4 years I have put up with crap from meat eaters.
Sucks to be you. I'll bet there are other vegetarians who don't.


These PETA vegan assholes are such a small minority that I've never even met one. (EDIT: and I have moved around the country living in big cities as well as small towns)
That's just your experience.


meat eaters are disproportionally assholish to vegetarians/vegans.
In YOUR experience.

Bacon makes everything taste better.
Yes. Yes it does.

For every animal you don't eat I'm going to eat 3.
Once, at the Bellagio buffet in Las Vegas, I consumed the meat of 13 different species in one meal.

Man that was tasty.

No it isn't.



Sucks to be you. I'll bet there are other vegetarians who don't.



That's just your experience.



In YOUR experience.

-Yes, it is, but you wouldnt know because you arent vegetarian and so you don't have to live thru it.

-No it sucks to be around meat eating asshole hypocrites who whine about how vegetarians are trying to change their meat eating habits (or admonishing them for their diet in some way) and when it's not even happening to the bulk of them and then they turn around and do the same thing they are whining about to vegetarians.

-Thats the experience of the majority of vegetarians that I know as well

-as well as the majority of vegetarians I know and the ones who post on this and other message boards I frequent.

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...
nothing wrong with that... as long as you accept the fact that I eat meat.

hey, you can have my salad, and I'll take that fish off of your hands. :D

It's projected guilt. They know their behaviour is immoral and that you are their better, so they try to degrade you instead of facing the truth about themselves. Pay it no attention.

Edit: "I think Vegetarians are morons." See. It's like a pathological need to assault what they can't attain.


I have no problem with people not eating meat, its none of my bussiness what you put in your mouth.

but arrogance like this is just repulsive

-Yes, it is, but you wouldnt know because you arent vegetarian and so you don't have to live thru it.
No, but I happen to be an atheist and an anarchist. So I have some idea.


-No it sucks to be around meat eating asshole hypocrites who whine about how vegetarians are trying to change their meat eating habits (or admonishing them for their diet in some way) and when it's not even happening to the bulk of them and then they turn around and do the same thing they are whining about to vegetarians.
Hey--that's your experience. Not the experience of everyone. And you're trying to make it out like it's the experience of every vegetarian-that you're so put upon and picked on.

You're a type of vegetarian I can't stand: whining, "poor pitiful me, I'm the victim". Personally, I couldn't give a fuck if you ate meat or not. Your choice. But don't play the fucking persecuted victim.

Grow up.

No, but I happen to be an atheist and an anarchist. So I have some idea.??? isn't that saying "I'm a black caucasian?" :confused: ;)

I'm indifferent to vegetarians. The only ones i dont like are the ones who are totally anal about it and act like my eating meat is evil. Those ones i laugh at.The only time they really get onmy nerves is Thanksgiving (I have a vegetarian aunt. She always trys to get us to eat tofurkey which is just plain unamerican!


i like tofu...

You're a type of vegetarian I can't stand: whining, "poor pitiful me, I'm the victim". Personally, I couldn't give a fuck if you ate meat or not. Your choice. But don't play the fucking persecuted victim.

Grow up.

i sense a lot of anger here...

i like tofu...
Ohhh... tofu salad....


*knows what to make for dinner.*

??? isn't that saying "I'm a black caucasian?" :confused: ;)
No.

i sense a lot of anger here...
I sense some piss-poor pop psych.

i like tofu...

I find tofu disgusting. Furthermore on thanksgiving it is unamerican to eat a tofurkey (if you personally have no moral reasons to do otherwise) My point here is that i don't like it when vegetarians try and make me eat tofu b/c they think meat is "wrong" i wouldn't try and make a vegetarian eat meat.

FREAKS!!!

funny thing is, is that plants are living things too.

No, but I happen to be an atheist and an anarchist. So I have some idea.

Oh look at me I'm the poor pursecuted atheist anarchist. people give me so much shit for it. wahhh wahhh. I hurt deep inside and my cant find my blankey.



Hey--that's your experience. Not the experience of everyone. And you're trying to make it out like it's the experience of every vegetarian-that you're so put upon and picked on.

You're a type of vegetarian I can't stand: whining, "poor pitiful me, I'm the victim". Personally, I couldn't give a fuck if you ate meat or not. Your choice. But don't play the fucking persecuted victim.

Grow up.


I said it was the experience of the majority of vegetarian people I know and is evident from what other vegetarians on this very thread have said. Either quit being a childish little troll or continue to make yourself look like an asshat. Your choice but I can see there is no point in continuing a conversation with someone like you.

Oh look at me I'm the poor pursecuted atheist anarchist. people give me so much shit for it. wahhh wahhh. I hurt deep inside and my cant find my blankey.

Not meaning to belittle the plight of benign vegitarians, but being an atheist does mean being the most hated minority in America.

I kid you not.

And gays.

I find tofu disgusting. Furthermore on thanksgiving it is unamerican to eat a tofurkey (if you personally have no moral reasons to do otherwise) My point here is that i don't like it when vegetarians try and make me eat tofu b/c they think meat is "wrong" i wouldn't try and make a vegetarian eat meat.

My ex-vegetarian ex-roommate (she started eating meat again when she was pregnant) used to be perfectly fine with making two portions when cooking for a large number of people. For instance, when she made spaghetti for a lot of people, she would make a veggie sauce and a meat sauce. The only problem was that she wouldn't taste the meat sauce when seasoning, so a little extra red pepper meant that you needed a big glass of water to eat it. =)

Not meaning to belittle the plight of benign vegitarians, but being an atheist does mean being the most hated minority in America.

I kid you not.

I'm sure you dont get any more shit than I do for not being Christian. I get plenty more shit for being vegetarian than I do for my lack of religion.

And gays.

I've lost "friends" for being bisexual.

the thing is ones sexuality/religion or lack thereof comes up a lot less in your daily dealings with people than does ones diet.

Not meaning to belittle the plight of benign vegitarians, but being an atheist does mean being the most hated minority in America.

I kid you not.

Really, that's why you have to live somewhere like the tri-state. No-one cares about either.

I get so much shit from people when I eat out with a group. I don't get it, I don't even eat funny. :confused:

Just last week, I simply sprinkled some salt on my fries and I looked over and two people with me looked at me like I had just killed someone.

I find tofu disgusting. Furthermore on thanksgiving it is unamerican to eat a tofurkey (if you personally have no moral reasons to do otherwise) My point here is that i don't like it when vegetarians try and make me eat tofu b/c they think meat is "wrong" i wouldn't try and make a vegetarian eat meat.I can understand your objection to being asked to try tofu, but why should anyone give a rat's ass whether or not something is 'unamerican'?

I like vegetarians as much as I like Bigtopians.

And I've decided that Bigtopians are NOT allowed anywhere near to our better schools.

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...

I don't mind them, but I can hardly eat a whole one, I find them rather chewy, but on the good side they taste quite carroty!:rolleyes:

I get so much shit from people when I eat out with a group. I don't get it, I don't even eat funny. :confused:

Just last week, I simply sprinkled some salt on my fries and I looked over and two people with me looked at me like I had just killed someone.

hehe I get that sort of thing from me family, just because I don't like to feed me kids too much processed foods.

"So whats that then?"

"What, you are joking?"

"No really, what is it?"

"Man, it's fuckin' carrot!"

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...


Each to their own. I'm not one. But if you want to be thats fine. Don't see why there would/should be a problem about it.

I'm irritated by anybody who presumes to tell me what I must or must not eat. This includes some vegitarians and vegans, as well as many religious people who feel their dietary restrictions should be imposed on me, and also the vast hordes of people who think that because I am female I must constantly obsess over my eating habits.

It's annoying when somebody tells me I shouldn't eat meat because of the poor animals (as if plant life were somehow less important or less valuable than animal life!). It's also annoying when somebody tells me I shouldn't eat shellfish because God will be pissed off (as if it's worth worshipping a God who concerns himself with such foolishness!). It's also annoying when somebody tells me that I shouldn't eat carbs because I'll get fat (the worst fate imaginable!!).

My gripe isn't with vegitarianism or veganism, it's with bossy, nosy, self-righteous people who think it's their job to plan my menu.

*seconds that*

The first thing to do is to hang the dieticians!

Oh look at me I'm the poor pursecuted atheist anarchist. people give me so much shit for it. wahhh wahhh. I hurt deep inside and my cant find my blankey.
That's exactly how I feel about your whining.


I said it was the experience of the majority of vegetarian people I know and is evident from what other vegetarians on this very thread have said.
Actually, it's not with the latter, and you are trying to make yourself out to be some sort of martyr.

Now stop being all emo and grow the fuck up, little one.

I'm sure you dont get any more shit than I do for not being Christian. I get plenty more shit for being vegetarian than I do for my lack of religion.
I also don't mean to belittle the crap that vegitarians may have to put up with, but honestly...atheists get so much more crap than Christians, it's not even worth trying to compare the two. Honestly.

Does this mean it's okay to be nasty to veggies? Fuck no. Black people get more crap thrown their way than white people, but that doesn't mean it's okay to treat white people like shit. Gay people take more shit than straight people, but that doesn't make it okay to treat straight people like shit. The fact that atheists take more crap than any other religious denomination (yes, including Muslims) doesn't give atheists the automatic right to turn around and act like dicks whenever they feel like it.

At the same time, however, it is important for you to recognize the fact that you do not have it as bad as some others do. Being a vegitarian Christian does not remotely compare to being an atheist these days. It's like a left-handed wealthy white person trying to claim that they are as persecuted as a Hispanic person who has grown up in poverty, because left-handed people have a harder time finding scissors that fit their grip. The difference is huge.

I've lost "friends" for being bisexual.

the thing is ones sexuality/religion or lack thereof comes up a lot less in your daily dealings with people than does ones diet.
In my entire life, I don't think I have ever seen anybody attack a vegitarian for their dietary choices. I have never seen a vegitarian beaten up for being veggie. I've never seen a vegitarian insulted or harassed for simply wanting to eat veggie food. The only times I've seen hostile words thrown at a veggie were during out-and-out debates on the subject of vegitarianism, conversations that were almost always initiated by the vegitarian in question.

There are plenty of people who order vegitarian meal options simply because they feel like having veggies at the time. I'm one of them. Never, in my life, have I even had anybody COMMENT on the fact that I picked the veggie option. Because, frankly, nobody cares.

Nobody cares if you happen to want to eat veggies only. Really, they don't. The only point of debate comes in when you introduce the PHILOSOPHY of your vegitarianism. When you start telling people that you don't eat meat because it's wrong to kill animals, they may be interested in debating THAT with you. But it's not your personal choice they are debating. It's the sweeping moral statement you are choosing to make.

With sexuality, on the other hand, there are people who can't seem to stop caring. People aren't content to let you make personal choices about your own life.

If I order veggie food and eat it quietly at my table, nobody comes over and yells at me that I'm a deviant or a pervert or a freak. On my first date with a certain former girlfriend of mine, we were asked to leave the restaurant because we held hands across the table.

The two cannot even be compared.

In my entire life, I don't think I have ever seen anybody attack a vegitarian for their dietary choices. I have never seen a vegitarian beaten up for being veggie. I've never seen a vegitarian insulted or harassed for simply wanting to eat veggie food. The only times I've seen hostile words thrown at a veggie were during out-and-out debates on the subject of vegitarianism, conversations that were almost always initiated by the vegitarian in question.

There are plenty of people who order vegitarian meal options simply because they feel like having veggies at the time. I'm one of them. Never, in my life, have I even had anybody COMMENT on the fact that I picked the veggie option. Because, frankly, nobody cares.

Nobody cares if you happen to want to eat veggies only. Really, they don't. The only point of debate comes in when you introduce the PHILOSOPHY of your vegitarianism. When you start telling people that you don't eat meat because it's wrong to kill animals, they may be interested in debating THAT with you. But it's not your personal choice they are debating. It's the sweeping moral statement you are choosing to make.

With sexuality, on the other hand, there are people who can't seem to stop caring. People aren't content to let you make personal choices about your own life.

If I order veggie food and eat it quietly at my table, nobody comes over and yells at me that I'm a deviant or a pervert or a freak. On my first date with a certain former girlfriend of mine, we were asked to leave the restaurant because we held hands across the table.

The two cannot even be compared.


Interestingly, I've also had the same experience with vegatarians. I find the ones from India never, ever bring up that subject ("eating meat is bad for you, didn't you know that?"). And their food tastes good - it isn't some lame attempt to make a veggieburger or cast 20 pounds of gluten into the shape of a turkey for Thanskgiving dinner.

Interestingly, I've also had the same experience with vegatarians. I find the ones from India never, ever bring up that subject ("eating meat is bad for you, didn't you know that?"). And their food tastes good - it isn't some lame attempt to make a veggieburger or cast 20 pounds of gluten into the shape of a turkey for Thanskgiving dinner.
I'm willing to accept that I may have had a skewed experience with vegitarianism because I have always lived in major cities and in relatively liberal areas. It's possible that vegitarians face more hostility elsewhere.

However.

I've lived in these major cities in these liberal areas, and among some of the most progressive and open-minded people in the world, and I've STILL faced endless crap for being a godless non-straight person. Even among the most liberal of liberals, being godless still gets you harassed. Even among the most socially-conscious and new-age folk, being non-hetero can cause problems. Hell, being bisexual causes more problems than being GAY does, because I get crap from the gay people who expect me to "pick a side"!

I don't like playing the "Who Is The Most Oppressed" Game. It's wrong to harass a vegitarian simply because they're veggie, and that's that. Vegitarians shouldn't feel the need to prove they're the most oppressed minority, because it doesn't matter.

It's also goddam annoying for Christians to pretend like they are oppressed AT ALL. Just like it's annoying when white males pretend like being a white male is so very very difficult these days. There are very few downsides to holding all the power in a society, but one of them is that you don't get to claim you're oppressed. Christians will be a minority soon enough; they can bitch about oppression then. :)

I'm willing to accept that I may have had a skewed experience with vegitarianism because I have always lived in major cities and in relatively liberal areas. It's possible that vegitarians face more hostility elsewhere.

However.

I've lived in these major cities in these liberal areas, and among some of the most progressive and open-minded people in the world, and I've STILL faced endless crap for being a godless non-straight person. Even among the most liberal of liberals, being godless still gets you harassed. Even among the most socially-conscious and new-age folk, being non-hetero can cause problems. Hell, being bisexual causes more problems than being GAY does, because I get crap from the gay people who expect me to "pick a side"!

I don't like playing the "Who Is The Most Oppressed" Game. It's wrong to harass a vegitarian simply because they're veggie, and that's that. Vegitarians shouldn't feel the need to prove they're the most oppressed minority, because it doesn't matter.

It's also goddam annoying for Christians to pretend like they are oppressed AT ALL. Just like it's annoying when white males pretend like being a white male is so very very difficult these days. There are very few downsides to holding all the power in a society, but one of them is that you don't get to claim you're oppressed. Christians will be a minority soon enough; they can bitch about oppression then. :)

Hiya :D How're ya doing?

In my country Christians are currently in the minority but they are a fast growing demographic. Evangelical churches have grown from strength to strength. My younger brother and sister have both converted to Christianity through these dynamic youth-cell based churches.

As for my working environment the situation is similar. More and more young graduate students are Christians. Mainly because the English-educated tend to be Christians (English schools opened by missionaries). Some were educated in the USA and may have picked up their religion there.

It is awkward to be a non-religious person in a biological research institute where about half the young researchers are Christians. In a country where only about 17% are Christians.

Anyway to address the OP, I find vegetarians annoying, except those from India. I mentioned before in another thread that there is an Indian researcher who is a vegetarian. She is nice, understanding and supportive of animal work. :)

Then there is that other one, that fucking PETA supporter. I won't mention more, it just unleashes a flood of negative vibes. :mad:

Hiya :D How're ya doing?

In my country Christians are currently in the minority but they are a fast growing demographic. Evangelical churches have grown from strength to strength. My younger brother and sister have both converted to Christianity through these dynamic youth-cell based churches.

As for my working environment the situation is similar. More and more young graduate students are Christians. Mainly because the English-educated tend to be Christians (English schools opened by missionaries). Some maybe because they were educated in the USA and picked up their religion there.

It is awkward to be in a biological research institute where about half the young researchers are Christians, in a country where only about 17% are Christians. I see a problem brewing.

Hmm, you know, I should have been a bit clearer in my post. I am American, of course, as are a majority of people on this forum, and I sometimes forget to specify that what I'm saying applies only to MY culture and MY country. I know that Christians are not a majority in much of the world, just as white people are not a majority in most parts of the world, so what I said on this thread will obviously not apply to other nations or cultures.

That's my bad for being America-centric. *hangs head in shame*

But it's interesting to hear about how Christianity fits in to other countries and cultures. I honestly can't imagine living in a place where Christianity wasn't totally pervasive...America may be a nominally-secular country, but our day-to-day lives are never really free of Christianity. I'd love to see what it's like to live somewhere where this is not the case.

*snip*
I'd love to see what it's like to live somewhere where this is not the case.

Europe is a good bet, any kind of religion (excluding soccer and beer-worship) is in decline there.

As for Asia, you should see what it's like now. Before the Evangelical Christians transform us all. :(

I don't think I was ever harassed as an atheist except of those really pious Protestants that everyone hates. Being an atheist around here was no cause even for surprise, let alone negative reactions. I have far more negative reactions for my (non-Abrahamic) religious inclinations now than I ever did as an atheist.

I guess that's just how things are down here.

But even having a weird religion is nothing compared to the shit I cop for being a vegetarian.

I'm a vegetarian for a very simple reason. I felt bad eating meat, and rather than continuing to construct a convoluted and very logical but ultimately emotionally empty rationale for why I should keep doing it, there came a point where I just chose to stop what I was doing that was causing me to feel bad and went from there. That's it.

I don't scream at people to change their eating habits, I don't harass people in restaurants for ordering the duck and I don't give people accusing looks when they're eating a hamburger. Other people's diets are their own damn business.

Now, I'm a fairly placid guy, but even I get pissed off after the tenth time someone has tried to slip meat into my food. It's extremely irritating not being able to set a meal for a moment to do something around other people because apparently it's the most hilarious thing in the world to cover the veggy's food with bits of sausage while he isn't looking. Especially when I've brought my own food so as not to put anyone else to trouble.

And then being constantly berated by people I've only just met for no other reason than I've ordered a vegetarian meal and been honest about my reasons for doing so (ie. I'm a vegetarian) when asked. Or having people go off on long lectures about why I should eat meat, as if anything they're saying is brand new wisdom that will make me give up my nefarious ways, simply because I'm eating a salad sandwich without any freaking ham on it.

And then there are the people who, before I've even said a word more than "I don't eat meat," will start ranting about how vegetarians are all militant freaks and how they know I want to tell them to stop eating meat and start countering points I haven't even made (and have no intention of bothering with.) Then you ask them if they've actually ever had a vegetarian or vegan come and start harassing them about eating meat and, surprise surprise, no they haven't but they've "heard that's what you people do."

I know quite a few other vegetarians and vegans and, yeah, some of them are assholes who like to rant at other people. Even so, it's been my experience that the ratio of asshats who try to evangelise their dietary habits is firmly skewed toward the meat-eater side of things.

:headbang:

Okay, okay. Rant over.

I've just had to deal with this bullshit in especially large quantities this week and I'm sick of it.

*snip*Then you ask them if they've actually ever had a vegetarian or vegan come and start harassing them about eating meat and, surprise surprise, no they haven't but they've "heard that's what you people do."

I know quite a few other vegetarians and vegans and, yeah, some of them are assholes who like to rant at other people. Even so, it's been my experience that the ratio of asshats who try to evangelise their dietary habits is firmly skewed toward the meat-eater side of things.

:headbang:

Okay, okay. Rant over.

I've just had to deal with this bullshit in especially large quantities this week and I'm sick of it.

I think it is good to eat less meat. Some people dislike the taste of meat, or are concerned about their health, so they are vegetarian. I am perfectly fine with that.

But your rant has just sparked off my rant.

If not for this single fucker, I would still admire vegetarians. He is a biologist for fuck's sake. He waits for us to kill the animals to provide cells for his experiments. And then preaches to us that killing animals is wrong.

He keeps adding Buddhist magazines, vegetarian "medical" magazines and PETA magazines in our pantry.

I... I...

But even having a weird religion is nothing compared to the shit I cop for being a vegetarian. ...shnip...
I've just had to deal with this bullshit in especially large quantities this week and I'm sick of it.

I know exactly how you feel. I became vegtarian for different reasons, but I had to go through all that shit too.

Things changed when I moved to Montreal. People here don't seem to care as much about other people's diets. Thank God.

I think my favourite moment was when I was sitting there with the fat wheezing guy, as he told me how unhealthy my whole lifestyle was.

Interesting k.d.lang story: when she came out as a lesbian, no one in Alberta cared. When she publicly announced her vegetarianism, there was a huge outcry against her there.

Alberta.:rolleyes:

If not for this single fucker, I would still admire vegetarians. He is a biologist for fuck's sake. He waits for us to kill the animals to provide cells for his experiments. And then preaches to us that killing animals is wrong.

He keeps adding Buddhist magazines, vegetarian "medical" magazines and PETA magazines in our pantry.

I... I...
Just to play Devil's Advocate, here:

Some people believe that it's okay to kill animals for some reasons, but not for other reasons. For instance, I use animals in my own research, but I totally oppose animal testing for cosmetics. I believe it is okay to use animals for serious scientific study, provided that every effort is made to reduce the suffering of the animals, but I believe it is unacceptable to cause living things to suffer simply because we want to make a redder shade of lipstick.

Maybe (big maybe here) the person you describe feels that it is okay to use animals for research, but it is not appropriate to use them for food. There are many avenues of research that cannot be pursued without the use of animal tissues, and many of these lines of research save human lives. At the same time, it is POSSIBLE for humans in modern societies to survive without ever eating meat. (Whether or not this is desireable is another story...)

Just to be clear, I do NOT personally agree with the attitude of the researcher you describe. I'm just trying to pose one possible explanation for why a person might believe that animal research is OK while eating meat is not.

I think it is good to eat less meat. Some people dislike the taste of meat, or are concerned about their health, so they are vegetarian. I am perfectly fine with that.

But your rant has just sparked off my rant.

If not for this single fucker, I would still admire vegetarians. He is a biologist for fuck's sake. He waits for us to kill the animals to provide cells for his experiments. And then preaches to us that killing animals is wrong.

He keeps adding Buddhist magazines, vegetarian "medical" magazines and PETA magazines in our pantry.

I... I...

Yeah, I think I remember you talking about this guy in a thread some time ago. Is he still working there?

I really feel for you. If anyone is actually deserving of the title "hypocrite", it's people like this. Why a person would even do that work if they're a vegetarian for those reasons is simply beyond me. Some people are just naturally assholes.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, here:

Some people believe that it's okay to kill animals for some reasons, but not for other reasons. For instance, I use animals in my own research, but I totally oppose animal testing for cosmetics. I believe it is okay to use animals for serious scientific study, provided that every effort is made to reduce the suffering of the animals, but I believe it is unacceptable to cause living things to suffer simply because we want to make a redder shade of lipstick.

Maybe (big maybe here) the person you describe feels that it is okay to use animals for research, but it is not appropriate to use them for food. There are many avenues of research that cannot be pursued without the use of animal tissues, and many of these lines of research save human lives. At the same time, it is POSSIBLE for humans in modern societies to survive without ever eating meat. (Whether or not this is desireable is another story...)

Just to be clear, I do NOT personally agree with the attitude of the researcher you describe. I'm just trying to pose one possible explanation for why a person might believe that animal research is OK while eating meat is not.

No. He is clearly against animal research, despite the lies he told us during the interview. He initially said that he would not shirk from the responsibility of animals work.

Yet, he has never sacrificed any mouse, instead relying on us to provide him with cells.

And he did not attend the animal course. When asked why, he commented something like "so cruel!"

He has also sent mass emails to everyone about articles from Peter Singer about animal rights.

He has good publications and a trump card in the senior management. He will never leave and will continue to torment us.

I'll get back to you after I'm done crying.

*sob*

No. He is clearly against animal research, despite the lies he told us during the interview. He initially said that he would not shirk from the responsibility of animals work.

Yet, he has never sacrificed any mouse, instead relying on us to provide him with cells.

And he did not attend the animal course. When asked why, he commented something like "so cruel!"

He has also sent mass emails to everyone about articles from Peter Singer about animal rights.

He has good publications and a trump card in the senior management. He will never leave and will continue to torment us.

I'll get back to you after I'm done crying.

*sob*
Wow. That's just pure bullshit.

I don't like killing animals. I've never worked with anybody who does. But I do it, as do many of my collegues, because we believe that the sacrifice is worth the gains.

It is important to me that I personally sacrifice the animals I use for my work. It is important that I be reminded of how sad it is to have to kill something, even if it is "only" a rat or a frog or a chick. It makes me take my work very, very seriously. I do not EVER behave carelessly with animal tissue, because I held the animal in my hands and I know what was lost to make this work possible.

It may sound overly dramatic for me to say this about mere critters, but it's how I feel about them. I hate killing things. It's horrible and icky and sad and the worst part of my job. But if I am going to use animal material, then I'm going to step up and face every part of the process.

Yeah, I think I remember you talking about this guy in a thread some time ago. Is he still working there?

I really feel for you. If anyone is actually deserving of the title "hypocrite", it's people like this. Why a person would even do that work if they're a vegetarian for those reasons is simply beyond me. Some people are just naturally assholes.

Thanks for your understanding :) .

Before meeting him I once had wild ideas about how to make synthetic meat so that people can enjoy good food without killing animals. Now I no longer think in such absolute terms, but I still believe many people are eating more meat than is good for them.

I wouldn't become a strict vegetarian because I don't see a sharp distinction between plant life and animal life. However, in time I hope to eat mainly grains, veggies and fruits. It is a healthier choice.

And nice people like you and that Indian researcher remind me that there are many good vegetarian folks too.

Wow. That's just pure bullshit.

I don't like killing animals. I've never worked with anybody who does. But I do it, as do many of my collegues, because we believe that the sacrifice is worth the gains.

It is important to me that I personally sacrifice the animals I use for my work. It is important that I be reminded of how sad it is to have to kill something, even if it is "only" a rat or a frog or a chick. It makes me take my work very, very seriously. I do not EVER behave carelessly with animal tissue, because I held the animal in my hands and I know what was lost to make this work possible.

It may sound overly dramatic for me to say this about mere critters, but it's how I feel about them. I hate killing things. It's horrible and icky and sad and the worst part of my job. But if I am going to use animal material, then I'm going to step up and face every part of the process.

Yes I agree. I have done mouse work and zebrafish work before. I remember the first time I isolated cells from a mouse myself, it was very unpleasant. Even the zebrafish work is not pleasant because you can see everything under the microscope.

If only there is some super-accurate computer model that can perfectly simulate life. But until then, we still need to use animals. Maybe even to help make that computer model in future.

Oh I'm not going to dwell on this.

Guess what, I passed quals. Now I'm one step nearer graduation - between 2 years and infinity.

I also don't mean to belittle the crap that vegitarians may have to put up with, but honestly...atheists get so much more crap than Christians, it's not even worth trying to compare the two. Honestly.

Does this mean it's okay to be nasty to veggies? Fuck no. Black people get more crap thrown their way than white people, but that doesn't mean it's okay to treat white people like shit. Gay people take more shit than straight people, but that doesn't make it okay to treat straight people like shit. The fact that atheists take more crap than any other religious denomination (yes, including Muslims) doesn't give atheists the automatic right to turn around and act like dicks whenever they feel like it.

At the same time, however, it is important for you to recognize the fact that you do not have it as bad as some others do. Being a vegitarian Christian does not remotely compare to being an atheist these days. It's like a left-handed wealthy white person trying to claim that they are as persecuted as a Hispanic person who has grown up in poverty, because left-handed people have a harder time finding scissors that fit their grip. The difference is huge.

I'm not a vegetarian Christian and I don't know where you got that from. I have no religion and I get crap for it but as I said ones religion or lack thereof comes up much less than does ones diet in daily life, so therefore people have more chances to ridicule me on my diet than my lack of religion. I was an atheist for many years as well so I know the trials that an atheist can be put thru.

It's probably because you you are an outside observer and dont have to put up with it yourself that it seems like vegetarians dont put up with very much crap, but you gotta walk a mile in someone elses shoes to really understand right?

I've lived in small conservatives towns, large conservative cities and large liberal cities and yes its worse in conservative areas but the ridicule is also very prevalent in liberal cities (but mostly from family members and friends).

I never said I have it worse off than anyone else in the world though. I'm surprised you made such a leap there.

Vegitarians are tasty.


Seriously, humans are omnivours man, deal with it.

Vegitarians are tasty.
Seriously, humans are omnivours man, deal with it.

So, do you believe that all humans that do not follow the "ideal" human diet, which is quite balanced, are in the wrong ?
Do realise that this also includes people who eat lots of meat, not just vegetarians. In fact, it will almost certainly include you too.

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians unless they try to assert that they have some sort of moral high ground because they don't eat meat.

In my entire life, I don't think I have ever seen anybody attack a vegitarian for their dietary choices. I have never seen a vegitarian beaten up for being veggie. I've never seen a vegitarian insulted or harassed for simply wanting to eat veggie food. The only times I've seen hostile words thrown at a veggie were during out-and-out debates on the subject of vegitarianism, conversations that were almost always initiated by the vegitarian in question.

Well perhaps its because you live in a liberal town but even in liberal towns I have experienced that and you are so wrong about vegetarians instigating it. look at the first two responses to the OP in this thread and read thru to find the many people who just attack vegetarianism without provocation.

Look for the number of asshole meateaters versus the number of asshole vegetarians in this thread.

It's lopsided for sure as has ALWAYS been my experience on this board and elsewhere.

Nobody cares if you happen to want to eat veggies only. Really, they don't. The only point of debate comes in when you introduce the PHILOSOPHY of your vegitarianism. When you start telling people that you don't eat meat because it's wrong to kill animals, they may be interested in debating THAT with you. But it's not your personal choice they are debating. It's the sweeping moral statement you are choosing to make.

And here you are just simply wrong. People do care for some reason. I get questioned on my diet regularly - even from people who have already questioned my diet before and somehow feel the need to bring it up again to try to convince me that eating meat is the way I should go. I am always on the defense even though I dont push vegetarianism on anyone because I dont give a shit what anyone else eats. I dont provoke it.

I don't know where y ou got that I think vegetarians have it worse off than everyone. I've never seen a vegetarian beat up for it either and never said so. verbal harassment is all I have seen and experienced. It's the amount of times that I get shit for my diet versus my sexuality or lack of religion that I am talking about here and don't think I have said anythign to the contrary.

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians unless they try to assert that they have some sort of moral high ground because they don't eat meat.

Indeed. *nods*

I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians unless they try to assert that they have some sort of moral high ground because they don't eat meat.
Damn right. But, as with so many other social groups (teenagers, Muslims, drinkers, etc), the minority gives the majority a bad name.

Overall, I'm indifferent about them, even though I am one.

I don't think I was ever harassed as an atheist except of those really pious Protestants that everyone hates. Being an atheist around here was no cause even for surprise, let alone negative reactions. I have far more negative reactions for my (non-Abrahamic) religious inclinations now than I ever did as an atheist.

I guess that's just how things are down here.

But even having a weird religion is nothing compared to the shit I cop for being a vegetarian.

I'm a vegetarian for a very simple reason. I felt bad eating meat, and rather than continuing to construct a convoluted and very logical but ultimately emotionally empty rationale for why I should keep doing it, there came a point where I just chose to stop what I was doing that was causing me to feel bad and went from there. That's it.

I don't scream at people to change their eating habits, I don't harass people in restaurants for ordering the duck and I don't give people accusing looks when they're eating a hamburger. Other people's diets are their own damn business.

Now, I'm a fairly placid guy, but even I get pissed off after the tenth time someone has tried to slip meat into my food. It's extremely irritating not being able to set a meal for a moment to do something around other people because apparently it's the most hilarious thing in the world to cover the veggy's food with bits of sausage while he isn't looking. Especially when I've brought my own food so as not to put anyone else to trouble.

And then being constantly berated by people I've only just met for no other reason than I've ordered a vegetarian meal and been honest about my reasons for doing so (ie. I'm a vegetarian) when asked. Or having people go off on long lectures about why I should eat meat, as if anything they're saying is brand new wisdom that will make me give up my nefarious ways, simply because I'm eating a salad sandwich without any freaking ham on it.

And then there are the people who, before I've even said a word more than "I don't eat meat," will start ranting about how vegetarians are all militant freaks and how they know I want to tell them to stop eating meat and start countering points I haven't even made (and have no intention of bothering with.) Then you ask them if they've actually ever had a vegetarian or vegan come and start harassing them about eating meat and, surprise surprise, no they haven't but they've "heard that's what you people do."

I know quite a few other vegetarians and vegans and, yeah, some of them are assholes who like to rant at other people. Even so, it's been my experience that the ratio of asshats who try to evangelise their dietary habits is firmly skewed toward the meat-eater side of things.

:headbang:

Okay, okay. Rant over.

I've just had to deal with this bullshit in especially large quantities this week and I'm sick of it.

and

I know exactly how you feel. I became vegtarian for different reasons, but I had to go through all that shit too.

Things changed when I moved to Montreal. People here don't seem to care as much about other people's diets. Thank God.

I think my favourite moment was when I was sitting there with the fat wheezing guy, as he told me how unhealthy my whole lifestyle was.

Interesting k.d.lang story: when she came out as a lesbian, no one in Alberta cared. When she publicly announced her vegetarianism, there was a huge outcry against her there.

Alberta.:rolleyes:


thank you - this is all I am tryign to say. We get tons of shit for our dietary choice even when it isnt provoked and I am sure that more meat eaters talk shit to vegetarians than vice-versa.

It's evident in my daily life as well as in what other vegetarians I know or veggies online have to say about it. It's evident in this very thread.

Well perhaps its because you live in a liberal town but even in liberal towns I have experienced that and you are so wrong about vegetarians instigating it. look at the first two responses to the OP in this thread and read thru to find the many people who just attack vegetarianism without provocation.

Look for the number of asshole meateaters versus the number of asshole vegetarians in this thread.

It's lopsided for sure as has ALWAYS been my experience on this board and elsewhere.



And here you are just simply wrong. People do care for some reason. I get questioned on my diet regularly - even from people who have already questioned my diet before and somehow feel the need to bring it up again to try to convince me that eating meat is the way I should go. I am always on the defense even though I dont push vegetarianism on anyone because I dont give a shit what anyone else eats. I dont provoke it.

I don't know where y ou got that I think vegetarians have it worse off than everyone. I've never seen a vegetarian beat up for it either and never said so. verbal harassment is all I have seen and experienced. It's the amount of times that I get shit for my diet versus my sexuality or lack of religion that I am talking about here and don't think I have said anythign to the contrary.


I never give people shit about their diet or sexuality or lack of religion.

I only give people shit if they give it to me, or express a desire to kill me or people I care about.

Interesting k.d.lang story: when she came out as a lesbian, no one in Alberta cared. When she publicly announced her vegetarianism, there was a huge outcry against her there.
Oh, they cared.

(Kudos for spelling "no one" correctly.)

I never give people shit about their diet or sexuality or lack of religion.

I only give people shit if they give it to me, or express a desire to kill me or people I care about.


I believe you and I never said all meat eaters give all vegetarians shit always.

I usually dont even go off on the penis wrinkles that give me shit for my diet without provocation unless I'm in a bad mood (which is hardly ever).

I believe you and I never said all meat eaters give all vegetarians shit always.

I usually dont even go off on the penis wrinkles that give me shit for my diet without provocation unless I'm in a bad mood (which is hardly ever).
I've noticed that no one (if they do give a vegetarian shit about their diet) that I've met gives people from India a hard time about it. Go figure.

I've noticed that no one (if they do give a vegetarian shit about their diet) that I've met gives people from India a hard time about it. Go figure.

same here, although I have seen people on this board say that people whose diet depends on their religion are morons but I think that is just coming from the intolerant atheists that look for any reason to bash religion.

funny story... when I was on my honeymoon in Europe, we were in a tour group and there was an Indian couple. They found out we were vegetarian when I asked the tour guide if the place we were goign to in Paris to eat, had vegetarian food (they sort of did - they made something special for us) because of course we would have found somewhere else to go otherwise.

So the Indian dude tells me he is a doctor and that the vegetarian diet is the best diet. It was funny because of how surprised he was and how proud he was that me and my wife were vegetarian and he wouldnt let up on teh vegetarian thing and I wasstarting to get annoyed because I felt he was getting preachy about it.

So we get to the restaurant and the indian couple sits with us and what do they order? The chicken plate :p

Also funny was when the waiters would come by to order or to bring the food, the indian doctor kept tellign him that my wife and I were vegetarian so not to mess up our order or something. lol

I've noticed that no one (if they do give a vegetarian shit about their diet) that I've met gives people from India a hard time about it. Go figure.

Probably because they're strange foreigners and expected to have strange foreign ways.

But seeing someone who is "good white folks" have a behaviour that they associate with strange foreigners seems to be a bit too much for some people to process. :p

Guess what, I passed quals. Now I'm one step nearer graduation - between 2 years and infinity.
Yahoo for quals! I passed mine just this June. Worst damn day of my life, so far, but I'm sure my thesis defense will be even worse. :D

I've noticed that no one (if they do give a vegetarian shit about their diet) that I've met gives people from India a hard time about it. Go figure.

True to some extent. But that only works with people who are somewhat aware of the veggie tradition of Indians.

When I go out with my office colleagues to a group lunch, I don't see any reaction when I say I am a veggie cuz they all know I am Indian....but some of them do get surprised when an odd white veggie joins us. Not surprised but you know...the slight change of the face...the "ah I see"..

But I suspect that if the group is a bunch of rural rednecks, I would be getting the same reaction, regardless of if I am Indian or not.

I've been Vegetarian for about 3 and a half years, and decided this week to try to eat completely Vegan... What does everyone think about them in general?

I always seem to find the people that hate me and call me a hypocrite as soon as they find out...
It's fanatics who makes us moderates look like assholes.

I hate the taste of meet, but prefer fish.

People call me a vegetarian and ask why I don't like it when people eat meat and that I don't preach.

I never preach. I hate the militant vegetarians and vegans who preach.

They're like Islamist extremists, they give the normal ones a bad name.

So we get to the restaurant and the indian couple sits with us and what do they order? The chicken plate :p

To some Indians, chicken is more acceptable. I even had a friend who said she is vegetarian but eats chicken and still argues that she is vegetarian. :p

Amongst Bengalis, it is very common to see vegetarian Bengalis (like the Bengali brahmin community) eat fish regularly. And they too insist that they are veggies.

True to some extent. But that only works with people who are somewhat aware of the veggie tradition of Indians.

When I go out with my office colleagues to a group lunch, I don't see any reaction when I say I am a veggie cuz they all know I am Indian....but some of them do get surprised when an odd white veggie joins us. Not surprised but you know...the slight change of the face...the "ah I see"..

But I suspect that if the group is a bunch of rural rednecks, I would be getting the same reaction, regardless of if I am Indian or not.


Interestingly, among educated Americans (supposedly), they're usually surprised to see someone from India eat meat. There are so many variations. Some have dietary restrictions based on the calendar (or so they tell me).

India is a big place, with over a billion people in it. Have to expect variation.

When I meet someone from India, and they say, "I'm from India" I usually say, "which state?" and they look surprised, and I say, "it's a big place".