NationStates Jolt Archive

Please keep discussion both civil and pertinent to the matters at hand, and do not employ Google or the like to determine answers - the overreaching aim of this visual exercise is to inform.

Installment I: Attempt to place - by your interpretation of these terms - the nationality (and/or ethnicity and race) of the following individuals.

1. http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3985/sr24100me.jpg

2. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/6926/ashassan4wd.jpg

3. http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7893/cadowpr22um.gif

4. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/6459/xafladiishirka57xy.jpg

5. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/1262/somali29or2ex.jpg

What is the point of this?

I will not play your racist game.

1. http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3985/sr24100me.jpg
Indian
2. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/6926/ashassan4wd.jpg
Again, pakistani or Indian
3. http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7893/cadowpr22um.gif
Middle east, Israel or Lebanon
4. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/6459/xafladiishirka57xy.jpg
South African
5. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/1262/somali29or2ex.jpg[/QUOTE]
Eygyptian (or somali at a guess, as it says in the link)

What is the point of this?

I will not play your racist game.

Actually I believe the point of the game is that racists are full of shit and it can be quite difficult to distinguish races.

What is the point of this?

I will not play your racist game.

The point is to challenge simplistic and monolithic perceptions of race, and their misguided, if widespread, conflation with nationality and ethnicity.

Um...okay.

1: Indian, from India.

2: Black, from Niger

3: Hispanic, from Spain.

4: Black, from South Africa.

5: I'm having trouble with this one. I think he's either Hispanic from Mexico or African from Egypt.

Liasia']1.Indian
2.Again, pakistani or Indian
3.Middle east, Israel or Lebanon
4.South African
5.Eygyptian (or somali at a guess, as it says in the link)

I'll say that this is at least 50% incorrect.

I'll say that this is at least 50% incorrect.
So sue me. For a 5 second guess on each, 50% isn't bad.

Um...okay.

1: Black, from the US.

2: Black, from Niger

3: Hispanic, from Spain.

4: Black, from South Africa.

5: I'm having trouble with this one. I think he's either Hispanic from Mexico or African from Egypt.

Sorry, none were correct.

Is the twist that they are all Somali?

Sorry, none were correct.
Yeah, I was having trouble with this...did I get the races right, at least?

Yeah, I was having trouble with this...did I get the races right, at least?

How do you define them? As these terms are commonly understood in the U.S. (that is, as social/cultural terms), no.

1. Non-white
2. Non-white
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white

How do you define them? As these terms are commonly understood in the U.S. (that is, as social/cultural terms), no.
How bout me?

1. Non-white
2. Non-white
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white
As if i couldn't have guessed you were Nordland. Do you have race envy?

Native American

Iranian

Pakistani

Ethiopian?

Afrikaaner?

1. Non-white
2. Non-white
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white
No kidding! :eek:

1. Non-white
2. Non-white
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white
Awwww...My Nordland is back with his two-tone glasses 'us and them'...how sweet.

Is the twist that they are all Somali?
That's what I'm inclined to go with as well.

Liasia']As if i couldn't have guessed you were Nordland. Do you have race envy?
He's just stating the obvious. <.<

3: Hispanic, from Spain.


You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette? Not swarthy as are many of the mestizos of Latin America, begotten upon the African and Indians by rampaging hordes of raping and pillaging Spaniards?

Liasia']As if i couldn't have guessed you were Nordland. Do you have race envy?

Excuse me, are you asking me if I envy black and/or brown people?

He's just stating the obvious. <.<
Mmmm but in a way which suggests he A)doesnt care B)Thinks white is superior.

Excuse me, are you asking me if I envy black and/or brown people?
Yup

Native American

Iranian

Pakistani

Ethiopian?

Afrikaaner?

All incorrect.

Liasia']Yup

By all means, you may assume that if it pleases you...

Liasia']Mmmm but in a way which suggests he A)doesnt care B)Thinks white is superior.
You in the habit of putting words in people's mouths? :)

All incorrect.


Werent I 100% correct? :)

You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette? Not swarthy as are many of the mestizos of Latin America, begotten upon the African and Indians by rampaging hordes of raping and pillaging Spaniards?
Indeed. Spaniards are usually just slightly more tan than most Europeans, but not as dark as most Latinos.

You in the habit of putting words in people's mouths? :)
*shrugs* i guess you can give him the benefit of the doubt if you want.

By all means, you may assume that if it pleases you...
Would explain some stuff

Native American

Iranian

Pakistani

Ethiopian?

Afrikaaner?

Afrikaaner? As in of dutch/flemish descent? What are you smoking??

Liasia']
4. http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/6459/xafladiishirka57xy.jpg
South African

Definitely not a South African black. Perhaps Indian.

Werent I 100% correct? :)

If by "non-white" you meant phenotypically/morphometrically "non-Caucasoid," not really; as it is clear that you're not operating under this definition, I wouldn't be the one to know.

I honestly can't tell. Is that the point?

The point is to challenge simplistic and monolithic perceptions of race, and their misguided, if widespread, conflation with nationality and ethnicity.

Is the challenge coming yet? They are all non-white. Anything "polylithic" or complex comig soon?

Definitely not a South African black. Perhaps Indian.
Isn't he a bit dark to be from there?

If by "non-white" you meant phenotypically/morphometrically "non-Caucasoid," not really; as it is clear that you're not operating under this definition, I wouldn't be the one to know.
Na ja, weiss weiss weiss! :eek: ALLES WEISS!

I honestly can't tell. Is that the point?

Only partly.

Liasia']Isn't he a bit dark to be from there?
Haha...the blacks there are very dark. The whites...well...very white...unless they're tanned. He hasn't got the appropriate features for a South African black.

If by "non-white" you meant phenotypically/morphometrically "non-Caucasoid," not really; as it is clear that you're not operating under this definition, I wouldn't be the one to know.

White doesnt equal caucasoid. Iranians and afganis are light years away of being white....

I've never been good at telling where people are from. I just ask if I'm curious.

Haha...the blacks there are very dark. The whites...well...very white...unless they're tanned. He hasn't got the appropriate features for a South African black.
Ah-ha.

Only partly.

Ah. Well, they could be from anywhere, really. Are any of them American?

Liasia']Ah-ha.
http://www.southafrica-canada.ca/images/Mbeki-21a.jpg

Now he is one of ours.

1. Classification: Humanoid

2. Classification: Humanoid

3. Classification: Humanoid

4. Classification: Humanoid

5. Could be an android, though I strongly suspect that he's another one of you inferior organics.

Alcohol Detected in vicinity.

Err... excuse me for a while.... I must... err... recharge my fuel cells, yeah.

http://www.southafrica-canada.ca/images/Mbeki-21a.jpg

Now he is one of ours.
You know what would be nice? If everyone just thought 'human' instead of 'non-white' or 'different'.

You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette?
Really? Many, huh? Funny, because I have two blond friends who absolutely loved Spain. In fact, one was my Spanish teacher my senior year. And when they were in Spain they constantly heard Spanish guys calling "Rubio!," which means blond. You know why? Because blond hair is extremely rare in Spain, no matter what you may think.

White doesnt equal caucasoid. Iranians and afganis are light years away of being white....

I see. Do you consider the differences between Iranians and Afghans on one hand and whites on the other predominantly physical or cultural? If the latter, then you must consider non-whites in "white societies" inherently unassimilable, no?

Liasia']You know what would be nice? If everyone just thought 'human' instead of 'non-white' or 'different'.

Why dont we simply classify everyone as molecules? That'd be much more inclusive. We could then celebrate our brotherhood with desks and stars *looks to the skies with full of hope, eyes sparkling...* HAIL THE MOLECULES....

Really? Many, huh? Funny, because I have two blond friends who absolutely loved Spain. In fact, one was my Spanish teacher my senior year. And when they were in Spain they constantly heard Spanish guys calling "Rubio!," which means blond. You know why? Because blond hair is extremely rare in Spain, no matter what you may think.
No, not extremely rare. She may be referring to mediterranean blonde though, which is mousy brown or light brown. She still would be correct.

Terminate audio exchange, fleshy organics. When will you learn that all organics are equally inferior to robots?

Liasia']Isn't he a bit dark to be from there?
Nope. One of my old f*ckbuddies was pure Indian, even raised there until her rich family moved here. She wasn't that dark, but her father was.

Why dont we simply classify everyone as molecules? That'd be much more inclusive. We could then celebrate our brotherhood with desks and stars *looks to the skies with full of hope, eyes sparkling...* HAIL THE MOLECULES....
Owned. :)

Why dont we simply classify everyone as molecules? That'd be much more inclusive. We could then celebrate our brotherhood with desks and stars *looks to the skies with full of hope, eyes sparkling...* HAIL THE MOLECULES....
I can see how you may relate to a chair but I'm pretty sure he was referring to the Human Race, solely.

No, not extremely rare. She may be referring to mediterranean blonde though, which is mousy brown or light brown. She still would be correct.
She specifically stated blonde and then light brown, right? So, she considered them seperate colors. That indicates she meant the yellow blond, according to traditional common sense.

Installment I Answers: All individuals are from Somalia.

She specifically stated blonde and then light brown, right? So, she considered them seperate colors. That indicates she meant the yellow blond, according to traditional common sense.
Mousy brown is a vague colour...it could be either blonde or brown. So, she is still correct.

Why dont we simply classify everyone as molecules? That'd be much more inclusive. We could then celebrate our brotherhood with desks and stars *looks to the skies with full of hope, eyes sparkling...* HAIL THE MOLECULES....
I don't see why it's a particularily bad idea. Sure couldn't hurt as much as the labels we have already. You may not want to acknowledge it, but you are the SAME as a black person in every way except a little bit of pigment.

Owned. :)
Dont see how:confused:

Liasia']Dont see how:confused:
Your post is the stereotypical response to classifying human beings by anything. So, let's not call a blonde a blonde because it might be offensive...or a woman a woman, or a man a man...let's just call them all humans! :fluffle: It is redundant because it is implicit.

:rolleyes:

I see. Do you consider the differences between Iranians and Afghans on one hand and whites on the other predominantly physical or cultural? If the latter, then you must consider non-whites in "white societies" inherently unassimilable, no?

Both physical and cultural. I find them "inherently unassimilable" to European societies. I dont think USA & Canada and Ocenia as white societies, but rather immigration societies...

Really? Many, huh? Funny, because I have two blond friends who absolutely loved Spain. In fact, one was my Spanish teacher my senior year. And when they were in Spain they constantly heard Spanish guys calling "Rubio!," which means blond. You know why? Because blond hair is extremely rare in Spain, no matter what you may think.

Exactly, [@Sinuhue] the Spanish are, generally, mediterranean people...they ARE White..but have darker skin than most Europeans, and generally have medium brown hair.

Saying that they are fair and blonde, when speaking of the Spanish generally, is wrong. Though there may certainly be a few of those you speak of in Spain, its very rare, like Surf Shack said.

Your post is the stereotypical response to classifying human beings by anything. So, let's not call a blonde a blonde because it might be offensive...or a woman a woman, or a man a man...let's just call them all humans! :fluffle:

:rolleyes:
So why is that a bad thing? Jeez.

Liasia']So why is that a bad thing? Jeez.
It is redundant as it is implicit.

They're all human. Although I believe there may be a fish in #5.

Really? Many, huh? Funny, because I have two blond friends who absolutely loved Spain. In fact, one was my Spanish teacher my senior year. And when they were in Spain they constantly heard Spanish guys calling "Rubio!," which means blond. You know why? Because blond hair is extremely rare in Spain, no matter what you may think.

Guys find blondes hot, if these Spanish guys don't know your friends' names then they are likely to call to them refering to a physical quality, it says nothing about the abundance of blondes in Spain. The poster wasn't stating that Spain is full of Scandanavian blondes, but rather that Spaniards are not Hispanic in the American sense. Indeed, in terms of ethnicity, Western Europe is mostly homogenous due to millenia of migration and interbreeding.

Guys find blondes hot, if these Spanish guys don't know your friends' names then they are likely to call to them refering to a physical quality, it says nothing about the abundance of blondes in Spain. The poster wasn't stating that Spain is full of Scandanavian blondes, but rather that Spaniards are not Hispanic in the American sense. Indeed, in terms of ethnicity, Western Europe is mostly homogenous due to millenia of migration and interbreeding.
Correct.

Mousy brown is a vague colour...it could be either blonde or brown. So, she is still correct.
............
OK, I get it, it's opposite day! So apparently many Spanish people now have mousy brown to light brown hair! That qualifies as a slightly pointless post then, doesn't it? Since we have now designated a spectrum of color that ranges across one color, brown?

And no, mousy brown does not mean blond. I don't know where that came from, but mousy brown = tan. Which is a shade of brown....

It is redundant as it is implicit.
And yet, people seem to forget it. Wierd eh?

Installment I Answers: All individuals are from Somalia.

W00t! I won the quiz! Do I get some kind of certificate of non-racistology?

I can see how you may relate to a chair but I'm pretty sure he was referring to the Human Race, solely.

But we are all same. It's either just skin colour or shape (referring to chair)....Discriminating between molecules is so moleculist....:(

Liasia']So why is that a bad thing? Jeez.

Tread cautiously, Liasia - you are about to engage the racist three. A gang of sorts that tag along in these types of inanities. Do not get sucked into it.

Guys find blondes hot, if these Spanish guys don't know your friends' names then they are likely to call to them refering to a physical quality, it says nothing about the abundance of blondes in Spain. The poster wasn't stating that Spain is full of Scandanavian blondes, but rather that Spaniards are not Hispanic in the American sense. Indeed, in terms of ethnicity, Western Europe is mostly homogenous due to millenia of migration and interbreeding.
Umm, no, see, I didn't come up with that explanation. See, that Spanish teacher lived in Spain for 5 years. SHE told me that.

And no, mousy brown does not mean blond. I don't know where that came from, but mousy brown = tan. Which is a shade of brown....
No, that is utterly incorrect. It is a colour which borders on both light blonde and brown...it's rather common in Europe. Drop the sarcasm.

Guys find blondes hot, if these Spanish guys don't know your friends' names then they are likely to call to them refering to a physical quality, it says nothing about the abundance of blondes in Spain. The poster wasn't stating that Spain is full of Scandanavian blondes, but rather that Spaniards are not Hispanic in the American sense. Indeed, in terms of ethnicity, Western Europe is mostly homogenous due to millenia of migration and interbreeding.

Millenia of migration and interbreeding? So what about the arab moorish migration and interbreeding in Spain when the Arabs dominated Spain from 711 to 1492?!!!

Dont you think that after hundreds and hundreds of years of being dominated by Arabs? The Spanish are not going to be (when speaking about the whole Spanish people generally) fair skinned and blonde?

Umm, no, see, I didn't come up with that explanation. See, that Spanish teacher lived in Spain for 5 years. SHE told me that.
So, if she told you the sky in Spain is red, you'd take her word for it eh?

Tread cautiously, Liasia - you are about to engage the racist three. A gang of sorts that tag along in these types of inanities. Do not get sucked into it.
And i'm as white as they come. How ironic.

Installment I Answers: All individuals are from Somalia.

I win... Make Installment II more challenging to destroy my monos, please....

Really? Many, huh? Funny, because I have two blond friends who absolutely loved Spain. In fact, one was my Spanish teacher my senior year. And when they were in Spain they constantly heard Spanish guys calling "Rubio!," which means blond. You know why? Because blond hair is extremely rare in Spain, no matter what you may think.
Blondes, true blondes, are rare everywhere.

What drives me nuts is idiots who think that Spaniards look like your average mestizo Mexican. Are you one of those?

Blondes, true blondes, are rare everywhere.

What drives me nuts is idiots who think that Spaniards look like your average mestizo Mexican. Are you one of those?
Same here. It irritates me no end explaining to people that Italians and Spaniards are not latino...

Liasia']I don't see why it's a particularily bad idea. Sure couldn't hurt as much as the labels we have already. You may not want to acknowledge it, but you are the SAME as a black person in every way except a little bit of pigment.

I made a thread which debunked that notion. ;)

She specifically stated blonde and then light brown, right? So, she considered them seperate colors. That indicates she meant the yellow blond, according to traditional common sense.
Why don't you ask me, SS?

Rubio, or rubia, in Spanish, quite often refers to anyone who does not have very dark hair.

Hence, people with light brown hair are also occasionally labelled 'rubio' especially if they are also light skinned.

Blondes, true blondes, are rare everywhere.

What drives me nuts is idiots who think that Spaniards look like your average mestizo Mexican. Are you one of those?

Of course not. Though blondes are rare everywhere your statement that (and you were talking about Spaniards as a whole) they are fair skinned and blonde....was just totally wrong.

While they, of course, are not mestizo...they are darker than most Europeans, skin wise, hair wise, and eye wise.


Nobody is saying they are Mestizo, everybody is saying that your description of the Spanish was wrong, thats all.

But we are all same. It's either just skin colour or shape (referring to chair)....Discriminating between molecules is so moleculist....:(
Just bweaks my fwagile wittle heart :(

I made a thread which debunked that notion. ;)
I guarentee it didn't.

Umm, no, see, I didn't come up with that explanation. See, that Spanish teacher lived in Spain for 5 years. SHE told me that.

Well, unless she is psychic she does not know for certain the motives of the blonde-shouters, anything any of us interpret onto it is just that, interpretation. The fact is that the Spanish people are not ethnically homogenous, and it is not out of the ordinary for them to witness a yellow-haired individual.

Why don't you ask me, SS?

Rubio, or rubia, in Spanish, quite often refers to anyone who does not have very dark hair.

Hence, people with light brown hair are also occasionally labelled 'rubio' especially if they are also light skinned.

I'm gonna call bullshit, I live in a majority hispanic area and I have never heard/seen a hispanic call someone rubia when they DONT have blonde hair.

Just bweaks my fwagile wittle heart :(
It's funny, until you consider how stupid prejudice is.

So, if she told you the sky in Spain is red, you'd take her word for it eh?
Yes, before yours, because you are color-blind obviously, and thats usually a good hint when it comes to the particular subject at hand.

Liasia']I guarentee it didn't.
Take it up with Arthur Jensen then. Or Philip Rushton. Or Charles Murray.

Installment I Answers: All individuals are from Somalia.

From Somalia, or resident in Somalia?

Yes, before yours, because you are color-blind obviously, and thats usually a good hint when it comes to the particular subject at hand.
My, what a snide little remark. I have friends in both Portugal and Spain. So I know well what people there look like.

Well, unless she is psychic she does not know for certain the motives of the blonde-shouters, anything any of us interpret onto it is just that, interpretation. The fact is that the Spanish people are not ethnically homogenous, and it is not out of the ordinary for them to witness a yellow-haired individual.
Mate, she LIVED there. Don't you think she might have figured out the motivations after 5 years? You know, being a teacher and all, don't you think she might have known what she was talking about? More so than you?

Take it up with Arthur Jensen then. Or Philip Rushton. Or Charles Murray.
I'll stick to common sense thanks.

Liasia']I'll stick to common sense thanks.
I'm sure that's what the Catholic Church said when it insisted upon the Earth being flat. Fun times. :)

Umm, no, see, I didn't come up with that explanation. See, that Spanish teacher lived in Spain for 5 years. SHE told me that.
I'll state this again, since you seem to have difficulty understanding the concept.

Spaniards are not mestizos. Spaniards run from dark to light, but even the darker Spaniards do not share the same features as Latin Americans. And there are PLENTY of blonde Spaniards (no, blonde is not just wheat blonde, it also ranges).

tsk tsk tsk... Foolish, foolish meatbags and organics...

tsk tsk tsk... Foolish, foolish meatbags...
To the meat processor with them!

I'm sure that's what the Catholic Church said when it insisted upon the Earth being flat. Fun times. :)

When did the Catholic Church insist that the Earth was flat, pray tell?

When did the Catholic Church insist that the Earth was flat, pray tell?
Middle Ages.

Of course not. Though blondes are rare everywhere your statement that (and you were talking about Spaniards as a whole) they are fair skinned and blonde....was just totally wrong.

While they, of course, are not mestizo...they are darker than most Europeans, skin wise, hair wise, and eye wise.


Nobody is saying they are Mestizo, everybody is saying that your description of the Spanish was wrong, thats all.Oh Atlantian, as usual you are so full of shit.

MOST Europeans? Really? So who are you counting now? The Spaniards are darker than the Italians? The Greeks? Are they darker than the bog Irish (sorry, my Dad is one such:))? When was the last time you were in Spain? Right...that's what I thought. So stop riding the Surf Shack's jock and do a little digging before you again speak out of your posterior.

And everyone was saying I was wrong? Wow...you and Surf Shack are everybody? Do you have Europa on ignore etc?

I'm sure that's what the Catholic Church said when it insisted upon the Earth being flat. Fun times. :)
Except i'm insisting that Black people are intrinsically similar to White people. That's of course completely comparable.

I'm gonna call bullshit, I live in a majority hispanic area and I have never heard/seen a hispanic call someone rubia when they DONT have blonde hair.

(I think we on this side of the Pond may have to make some kind of chart depicting the differences and similarities of Spanish and "Hispanic" cultures...)

Hispanics generally have darker hair, thus they are more likely to differentiate a pure blonde. Whereas Spaniards have a wide range of hair colours, and are thus more likely to use the term more broadly.

Of course, it simply does not follow to superimpose cultural habits of a group onto another thousands of miles and hundreds of years seperated.

Liasia']Except i'm insisting that Black people are intrinsically similar to White people. That's of course completely comparable.
They are, in that they too are human. However, I am sure you have not even heard of Jensen.

Liasia']So why is that a bad thing? Jeez.

May I ask how old you are?

I'm gonna call bullshit, I live in a majority hispanic area and I have never heard/seen a hispanic call someone rubia when they DONT have blonde hair.
Yeah, and you're fluent?

What you likely hear is guero, which is a term more common among the chicanos in the US, 'milkweed', which refers to those with pale skin, and hair that is anything but black.

It may shock you to know that 'negro' or 'negra' is also referred to people who are not black-skinned, but who have dark hair or eyes.

Considering I've lived among hispanics for 10 years, speaking the language, and totally immersed in the culture, your cry of bullshit no me importa nada.

Middle Ages.

No, it didn't.

The Catholic Church used Aristotle as its authority on the natural world, and followed his model of a spherical Earth.

May I ask how old you are?
A typical pointless My Nordland question...he doesn't want to address you, so he tries to find ways to justify ignoring you.

I win... Make Installment II more challenging to destroy my monos, please....

How's this?

Installment II (Part 1):

1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/MyriamMorea.jpg

2. http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8949/khhla9.jpg

3. http://pschuler.club.fr/Cinema/Actrices/Aishwarya-Rai/aishwarya-rai3.jpg

4. http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2006/March/Images/akbari.jpg

5. http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/basque02.jpg

No, it didn't.

The Catholic Church used Aristotle as its authority on the natural world, and followed his model of a spherical Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallileo#Church_controversy well it did believe in geocentricism...

May I ask how old you are?
17.

*snip*
They are all Indian?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallileo#Church_controversy well it did believe in geocentricism...

Yes, which is an entirely different thing from believing in a flat Earth.

Blondes, true blondes, are rare everywhere.

What drives me nuts is idiots who think that Spaniards look like your average mestizo Mexican. Are you one of those?

How ignorant. True blonds arent rare here. Neither in other nordic countries.

My, what a snide little remark. I have friends in both Portugal and Spain. So I know well what people there look like.
Right, except for the fact that you have claimed brown isn't really brown, and light brown is blond, according to those foolish Spanish...

So, here's a statistic
http://www.cite-sciences.fr/english/ala_cite/expo/tempo/cheveu/dossierdepresse/PressKit_Exhib_Hair_Eng.rtf
15.2% of women have light blond hair, but only 7.8% of these are natural blondes
In Europe**:

So, what did they mean by Europe?
** Europe: Germany, Spain, Italy, France, UK


OK, so even including several naturally fairer nationalities, you only get 7.8% natural blonds. That is rare. Now, you may be including false blonds, but guess what? That has nothing to do with ethnicity.

Oh Atlantian, as usual you are so full of shit.

MOST Europeans? Really? So who are you counting now? The Spaniards are darker than the Italians? The Greeks? Are they darker than the bog Irish (sorry, my Dad is one such:))? When was the last time you were in Spain? Right...that's what I thought. So stop riding the Surf Shack's jock and do a little digging before you again speak out of your posterior.

And everyone was saying I was wrong? Wow...you and Surf Shack are everybody? Do you have Europa on ignore etc?

We studied the Spanish all of last year. I actually know alot more about them than I'd like to. The Spanish, generally, are darker than the Irish...the Greeks, I'm not so sure about, the Northern Italians, YES, the Southern Italians, maybe not.

Look:

I'll state this again, since you seem to have difficulty understanding the concept.

Spaniards are not mestizos. Spaniards run from dark to light, but even the darker Spaniards do not share the same features as Latin Americans. And there are PLENTY of blonde Spaniards (no, blonde is not just wheat blonde, it also ranges).
Enough with the Mestizo thing! He never claimed they are mestizo.

Spanairds CAN be light or dark.......BUT to call Spaniards as a whole: You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette? Is just false, wrong and stupid..how dont you see that?

Nobody is saying that Spaniards CANT be fair and blonde...we are just saying generally they arnt, which is the opposite of what you said.

Yes, which is an entirely different thing from believing in a flat Earth.
Yes, I know. I corrected myself.

Liasia']I guarentee it didn't.

See for yourself. Search the history of Ny Nordland...

Yeah, and you're fluent?

What you likely hear is guero, which is a term more common among the chicanos in the US, 'milkweed', which refers to those with pale skin, and hair that is anything but black.

It may shock you to know that 'negro' or 'negra' is also referred to people who are not black-skinned, but who have dark hair or eyes.

Considering I've lived among hispanics for 10 years, speaking the language, and totally immersed in the culture, your cry of bullshit no me importa nada.
Rubio and guero? No, I think the average human being can hear the difference, but thanks.

Yes, I know. I corrected myself.

Which rather weakens your attack on common sense somewhat.

See for yourself. Search the history of Ny Nordland...

Now there's a waste of time...

Liasia']It's funny, until you consider how stupid prejudice is.

Yes. Have you ever eaten shit? I mean literally. You shoudlnt have any gastronomical prejudices....

Which rather weakens your attack on common sense somewhat.
If you're trying to be a pedant, give it a rest...

Catholic church did not accept heliocentricism as being false as it regarded it as common sense...there.

You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette? Not swarthy as are many of the mestizos of Latin America, begotten upon the African and Indians by rampaging hordes of raping and pillaging Spaniards?
So sorry, Atlantian, that you didn't read the original quote. Now read it over...once more...the whole premise was that they weren't mestizo dark, to which Surf Sack decided to interject his pointless ditherings about the majority not being blonde. I never said the majority was.

Please note my post a few posts up which cites a European survey which gives statistics on the percentage of natural blonds in Europe, using only a few countries. If you think about it, it gives you all the answer you need. And Sinuhue just can't tell a fake blond from real, while Europa thinks brown is blond. And I never said they looked *mestizo*, which isn't even true latino, but a combination of latino and indian (Holy Shit! I knew that! Uh OH! Maybe I'm well-informed), thanks, so lets stick to reality for a bit.

Please note my post a few posts up which cites a European survey which gives statistics on the percentage of natural blonds in Europe, using only a few countries. If you think about it, it gives you all the answer you need. And Sinuhue just can't tell a fake blond from real, while Europa thinks brown is blond. And I never said they looked *mestizo*, which isn't even true latino, but a combination of latino and indian (Holy Shit! I knew that! Uh OH! Maybe I'm well-informed), thanks, so lets stick to reality for a bit.
You misread her post. Read it again.

Yes. Have you ever eaten shit? I mean literally. You shoudlnt have any gastronomical prejudices....
:confused: So your'e saying not believing in prejudice is like eating shit?

So sorry, Atlantian, that you didn't read the original quote. Now read it over...once more...the whole premise was that they weren't mestizo dark, to which Surf Sack decided to interject his pointless ditherings about the majority not being blonde. I never said the majority was.
Actually, I was arguing with Europa, and you shoved your nose in and ignored logic. However, you can place words in my mouth if it makes you feel better, since you've been making a fool of yourself.


Especially since I know damn well what mestizo is, and I was the one that said blond hair was rare, and you chaps decided to disagree. Just admit you are wrong now, please?

They are all Indian?

No.

Yeah, and you're fluent?

What you likely hear is guero, which is a term more common among the chicanos in the US, 'milkweed', which refers to those with pale skin, and hair that is anything but black.
No. What I hear is nothing, because nobody who speaks Spanish calls non-blondes rubias.

No.
Well I know at least one of them is...and the last two also seem to be...not sure about the others. Hints?

Rubio and guero? No, I think the average human being can hear the difference, but thanks.
My point, is that guero is very commonly used in the US in the same way that rubio is used in other Spanish speaking areas…not that they sound the same. Both words are used, colloquially, to refer to people with pale skin and hair that is not black or extremely dark brown. You and Atlantian seem to believe that because the Spanish/English dictionary lists ‘rubio’ as meaning blonde, that all Spanish speakers use that dictionary definition and never stray. This is false.

I'll state this again, since you seem to have difficulty understanding the concept.

Spaniards are not mestizos. Spaniards run from dark to light, but even the darker Spaniards do not share the same features as Latin Americans. And there are PLENTY of blonde Spaniards (no, blonde is not just wheat blonde, it also ranges).
See? I can read. You just have some memory issues. Like selectivity, I suppose.

And I'm sure the French scientists knew what blond was when they gave those statistics.

No. What I hear is nothing, because nobody who speaks Spanish calls non-blondes rubias.
Riiiight...so when I hear it everyday, when I hear it in Chile, in Argentina, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, in Nicaragua, in Cuba etc etc etc...I'm hallucinating? You are speaking as an outsider and pretending to have the authority to make absolute statments like this? Perhaps you should ask the other hispanohablantes on the board? They will quickly set you straight.

A typical pointless My Nordland question...he doesn't want to address you, so he tries to find ways to justify ignoring you.

A typical idiotic Sinuhue comment. Or should I say a drama? Yes, drama of Sinuhue trying to explain stuff.
Oh btw, regarding his "point", I dont need to prove existance of gravity on Earth, do I?

See? I can read. You just have some memory issues. Like selectivity, I suppose.

And I'm sure the French scientists knew what blond was when they gave those statistics.
There are plenty of blonde Spaniards.

You seem to have taken that to mean the majority are.

Grab a dictionary. Plenty means many. And there are. Many does not mean a majority. Grow up.

So sorry, Atlantian, that you didn't read the original quote. Now read it over...once more...the whole premise was that they weren't mestizo dark, to which Surf Sack decided to interject his pointless ditherings about the majority not being blonde. I never said the majority was.
Dude, you were speaking about the Spaniards generally....speaking of them as a whole, and you called them fair skinned and blonde....how do you not see the problem in that? We never said there ARNT fair blonde Spanairds..we just said they are rare and most certainly not what you should use as the epitome/standard/when describing Spaniards.

A typical idiotic Sinuhue comment. Or should I say a drama? Yes, drama of Sinuhue trying to explain stuff.
Oh btw, regarding his "point", I dont need to prove existance of gravity on Earth, do I?
Ah yes, My Nordland, with his little flames...anything to divert attention from his blatant racism, which we finally had a rest from for a few days...

How's this?

Installment II (Part 1):

1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/MyriamMorea.jpg

2. http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8949/khhla9.jpg

3. http://pschuler.club.fr/Cinema/Actrices/Aishwarya-Rai/aishwarya-rai3.jpg

4. http://www.iranian.com/PhotoDay/2006/March/Images/akbari.jpg

5. http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/basque02.jpg

1. White
2. White
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white

1. Surinam or Indonesia
2. USA
3. Egypt
4. Ethiopia or Somalia
5. Bangladesh or India

I won't give race, since i know the senselessness of the race thing. I give nationality with a certain Dutch bias, since i am Dutch...

Edit: This is in response to instalment I, posted before reading up to this point.

1. White
2. White
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white
:rolleyes:

Actually, I was arguing with Europa, and you shoved your nose in and ignored logic.
Actually, my original post was in reply to a totally different poster: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11425386&postcount=21

And YOU responded to it directly. Which makes you the one shoving your nose in.

Riiiight...so when I hear it everyday, when I hear it in Chile, in Argentina, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, in Nicaragua, in Cuba etc etc etc...I'm hallucinating? You are speaking as an outsider and pretending to have the authority to make absolute statments like this? Perhaps you should ask the other hispanohablantes on the board? They will quickly set you straight.

Dont you live in Canada? I live in South Florida and before that Southern California. I live around hispanics every day, not just American hispanics, but hispanics from all over South and Central America. None of them have ever called a non blonde Rubia. Actually, if you want to convince me, show me a source that hispanics or spaniards call non-blondes rubias. Do it.

1. White
2. White
3. Non-white
4. Non-white
5. Non-white
And that, is Exhibit B.

I rest my case.

There are plenty of blonde Spaniards.

You seem to have taken that to mean the majority are.

Grab a dictionary. Plenty means many. And there are. Many does not mean a majority. Grow up.
7.8% shows that there are not *Many*, since likely the majority of those found were in the more Scandinavian countries, like Germany? Ya know? Maybe you should stick to your guns. You chaps keep trying to change your argument. You were wrong, its ok, but you were!

Liasia']17.

In the future, like when you are 40 or something, you'll probably be flattered when people think you are younger than your real age. ;)

Catholic church did not accept heliocentricism as being false as it regarded it as common sense...there.

The whole point was that the Catholic Church did accept heliocentricism as being false.

7.8% shows that there are not *Many*, since likely the majority of those found were in the more Scandinavian countries, like Germany? Ya know? Maybe you should stick to your guns. You chaps keep trying to change your argument. You were wrong, its ok, but you were!
Wow, Germany is in Scandinavia? :eek: News to me! And the rest of the world... :rolleyes:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/03/blonde-hair-blue-eyes.php

In the future, like when you are 40 or something, you'll probably be flattered when people think you are younger than your real age. ;)
Dude, I always figured you were about 7. Guess great minds think alike eh (and you never answered my question as to why treating every race as equal is a bad thing)

The whole point was that the Catholic Church did accept heliocentricism as being false.
Ugh...geocentricism...my mind is off tonight -_-

Right, except for the fact that you have claimed brown isn't really brown, and light brown is blond, according to those foolish Spanish...

So, here's a statistic
http://www.cite-sciences.fr/english/ala_cite/expo/tempo/cheveu/dossierdepresse/PressKit_Exhib_Hair_Eng.rtf
15.2% of women have light blond hair, but only 7.8% of these are natural blondes
In Europe**:

So, what did they mean by Europe?
** Europe: Germany, Spain, Italy, France, UK


OK, so even including several naturally fairer nationalities, you only get 7.8% natural blonds. That is rare. Now, you may be including false blonds, but guess what? That has nothing to do with ethnicity.

I guess Italy, Spain and France are downing the percentages. There should be significant amount of blonds in UK and Germany...

Dont you live in Canada?I live in South Florida and before that Southern California. I live around hispanics every day, not just American hispanics, but hispanics from all over South and Central America. None of them have ever called a non blonde Rubia. Actually, if you want to convince me, show me a source that hispanics or spaniards call non-blondes rubias. Do it.
I already told you, ask the native spanish speakers here on the board if you doubt it. Dictionary definitions don't get you far in a language. I suggest TGing Gift-of-God, OceanDrive, Itz (I can never spell his full name without checking) to begin with.

There are plenty of blonde Spaniards.

You seem to have taken that to mean the majority are.

Grab a dictionary. Plenty means many. And there are. Many does not mean a majority. Grow up.
Plenty does not mean many. Here's a dictionary.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Plenty
Plenty clearly implies a very large amount, which is wrong. Natural blonds in Spain are rare. I'm right. Why can't you just say that, instead of pretending that wasn't what you meant?

Wow, Germany is in Scandinavia? :eek: News to me! And the rest of the world... :rolleyes:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/03/blonde-hair-blue-eyes.php
Oh don't do that, EM, he's so convinced he's right about everything...it might destroy his ego totally...

Plenty does not mean many. Here's a dictionary.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Plenty
Plenty clearly implies a very large amount, which is wrong. Natural blonds in Spain are rare. I'm right. Why can't you just say that, instead of pretending that wasn't what you meant?
Because you are, for some strange reason, simply trying to spin this, on one small point, and I am not about to be drawn into a statistical argument over the word 'plenty'. I meant it the way I meant it...that you took it to mean a majority is your own fault. You should've asked for clarification instead of behaving like such an ass.

Take a look at this page (http://www.reedconsulting.com/octopush/tmt/199906siec/en/teams-w.html). The Spanish team is nearly at the bottom. Now take a look at everyone, and tell me how you would be able to pick a Spaniard out of the bunch.

The original point was simple. Many people in the US and Canada, ignorantly assume that Spaniards look like Latin Americans, when in fact, they are European, and run the range just as most Europeans do, from very light, to swarthy...but very rarely as swarthy as people from Latin America.

Do you care to dispute that? OR will you just mentally masturbate yourself on the issue of how many are blonde?

Wow, Germany is in Scandinavia? :eek: News to me! And the rest of the world... :rolleyes:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/03/blonde-hair-blue-eyes.php

Maybe he meant more nordic countries...like Germany. Germany is alot more "Nordic" more fair, lighter eyes, lighter hair, than Spain, on average.

Liasia']:confused: So your'e saying not believing in prejudice is like eating shit?

No, I'm saying you wouldnt eat shit because you know it isnt good. But you know it without tasting. (hence a prejudice)...

Maybe he meant more nordic countries...like Germany. Germany is alot more "Nordic" more fair, lighter eyes, lighter hair, than Spain, on average.
Nah, I wouldn't put it past this moron to have meant Scandinavian in all seriousness.

No, I'm saying you wouldnt eat shit because you know it isnt good. But you know it without tasting. (hence a prejudice)...
:( What a shit analogy. Seriously.

I already told you, ask the native spanish speakers here on the board if you doubt it. Dictionary definitions don't get you far in a language. I suggest TGing Gift-of-God, OceanDrive, Itz (I can never spell his full name without checking) to begin with.
I will ask someone. But lets get back on point.

Can you jsut tell me this. Were you wrong in saying that Spaniards are fair and blonde? [When speaking about them generally..all of them, generally]

And that, is Exhibit B.

I rest my case.

Oh you were arguing a case? And btw why did you change your sig? Quoting yourself suited you better...

Wow, Germany is in Scandinavia? :eek: News to me! And the rest of the world... :rolleyes:

http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/03/blonde-hair-blue-eyes.php
Actually I meant *more* Scandinavian in appearance. But you obviously felt it necessary to pretend I don't know basic Geography. Of course, you have yet to dispute the statistics I offered, so I'm sure you had to figure something better out.

And yes, the Germanic tribes were closely related to the Celts, which would make them much more *Scandinavian* in appearance than, say, the Iberians (the collective name given to the Phoenicians, Greeks, etc. that originally colonized the Iberian Peninsula.

Smert 1, try using facts instead of pretending we don't know what we are talking about.

;) Nah, I wouldn't put it past this moron to have meant Scandinavian in all seriousness.
LOL
Nice one. Again, answer the numbers. Quit pretending you didn't see those. And you should probably go look up Germany's origins. ;)

I will ask someone. But lets get back on point.

Can you jsut tell me this. Were you wrong in saying that Spaniards are fair and blonde? [When speaking about them generally..all of them, generally]
No.

You, and your little buddy misrepresented my argument from the beginning.

Spaniards are European. They are fair and light of hair, generally...compared to latinos from the Americas. Do you actually dispute that? Why you two turned this into an issue of total number of blondes, I can't fathom, but that was in no way a part of my premise.

Installment II (Part 2):

6. http://i2.tinypic.com/rk3g5i.jpg

7. http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/basque10_fr.jpg

8. http://www.aujourdhui.ma/alm_images/Noura-Skelli.gif

9. http://i2.tinypic.com/sxp4e9.jpg

10. http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/526/iranianoldandyoung5qj.jpg

11. http://journaldekabylie.iquebec.com/images/ferhat_mehenni.jpg

12. http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5854/north9et.jpg

13A. http://ent.nikkeibp.co.jp/ent/200512/images/hirai.jpg

13B. http://www.geocities.com/igoy_mulroney_marx/hiraiken/ken5.jpg

Actually I meant *more* Scandinavian in appearance. But you obviously felt it necessary to pretend I don't know basic Geography. Of course, you have yet to dispute the statistics I offered, so I'm sure you had to figure something better out.

And yes, the Germanic tribes were closely related to the Celts, which would make them much more *Scandinavian* in appearance than, say, the Iberians (the collective name given to the Phoenicians, Greeks, etc. that originally colonized the Iberian Peninsula.

Smert 1, try using facts instead of pretending we don't know what we are talking about.
Germany is not Scandinavian. It is Nordic in origin. You are none the more correct for your poor attempt at pointing out Germany's Scandinavian roots. You failed in using facts, now you are attempting to point the finger at me...won't work.

Oh, and the original Greeks were majority fair skin and hair...later interaction with Eastern Europeans led to the current phenotypal majority in Greece...and even today Greeks remain relatively fair skinned compared to other Mediterraneans.

Liasia']Dude, I always figured you were about 7.


Very original. Especially after my comments...:rolleyes:

Liasia']
Guess great minds think alike eh (and you never answered my question as to why treating every race as equal is a bad thing)

How can they be equal when noone is actually equal. Individuals are different.
If you meant equal under law, that's a different story...

;)
LOL
Nice one. Again, answer the numbers. Quit pretending you didn't see those. And you should probably go look up Germany's origins. ;)
I know Germany's origins. It's an admixture of Roman, germanic and celtic, with the latter two being predominant.

I know Germany's origins. It's an admixture of Roman, germanic and celtic, with the latter two being predominant.
Do you have a sense yet of who this puppet is? He doesn't feel brand-spanking new...

Because you are, for some strange reason, simply trying to spin this, on one small point, and I am not about to be drawn into a statistical argument over the word 'plenty'. I meant it the way I meant it...that you took it to mean a majority is your own fault. You should've asked for clarification instead of behaving like such an ass.

Take a look at this page (http://www.reedconsulting.com/octopush/tmt/199906siec/en/teams-w.html). The Spanish team is nearly at the bottom. Now take a look at everyone, and tell me how you would be able to pick a Spaniard out of the bunch.

The original point was simple. Many people in the US and Canada, ignorantly assume that Spaniards look like Latin Americans, when in fact, they are European, and run the range just as most Europeans do, from very light, to swarthy...but very rarely as swarthy as people from Latin America.

Do you care to dispute that? OR will you just mentally masturbate yourself on the issue of how many are blonde?

Dodging the point again? *That wasn't what I meant, though!" Except that you argued it until I provided factual evidence against it, and then you changed your position. Also, prove any Spaniard on that page is a natural blond, not dyed that way.


The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that you made an incorrect statement will not be allowed to escape your notice, because you refuse to admit it.

1. Surinam or Indonesia
2. USA
3. Egypt
4. Ethiopia or Somalia
5. Bangladesh or India

I won't give race, since i know the senselessness of the race thing. I give nationality with a certain Dutch bias, since i am Dutch...

None of those were correct.

Because you are, for some strange reason, simply trying to spin this, on one small point, and I am not about to be drawn into a statistical argument over the word 'plenty'. I meant it the way I meant it...that you took it to mean a majority is your own fault. You should've asked for clarification instead of behaving like such an ass.

Take a look at this page (http://www.reedconsulting.com/octopush/tmt/199906siec/en/teams-w.html). The Spanish team is nearly at the bottom. Now take a look at everyone, and tell me how you would be able to pick a Spaniard out of the bunch.

The original point was simple. Many people in the US and Canada, ignorantly assume that Spaniards look like Latin Americans, when in fact, they are European, and run the range just as most Europeans do, from very light, to swarthy...but very rarely as swarthy as people from Latin America.

Do you care to dispute that? OR will you just mentally masturbate yourself on the issue of how many are blonde?

They are darker than the Dutch, English, or actually, most of the other players on that page.

Actually I meant *more* Scandinavian in appearance. But you obviously felt it necessary to pretend I don't know basic Geography. Of course, you have yet to dispute the statistics I offered, so I'm sure you had to figure something better out.

And yes, the Germanic tribes were closely related to the Celts, which would make them much more *Scandinavian* in appearance than, say, the Iberians (the collective name given to the Phoenicians, Greeks, etc. that originally colonized the Iberian Peninsula.

Smert 1, try using facts instead of pretending we don't know what we are talking about.

Being related to Celts makes one scandinavian???????

Dodging the point again? *That wasn't what I meant, though!" Except that you argued it until I provided factual evidence against it, and then you changed your position. Also, prove any Spaniard on that page is a natural blond, not dyed that way.
Prove any of them aren't naturally blonde:rolleyes: What a stupid thing to say.

Nice try buddy. I argued from my original premise...it took me a while to realise you had totally and deliberately misinterpreted it. So sorry for you, I'm not interested in playing your pointless game...if you really want to go on thinking that Spaniards are the dark-meat of Europe, you can continue to be deluded.

Very original. Especially after my comments...:rolleyes:



How can they be equal when noone is actually equal. Individuals are different.
If you meant equal under law, that's a different story...
It ALWAYS gets into you insulting me when i try and adress your posts. Makes me think you don't like me;)
Individuals, yes, but not races. As far as we can every individual should get equal opportunities- not depending on their skin or anythin else.

Oh, and the original Greeks were majority fair skin and hair...later interaction with Eastern Europeans led to the current phenotypal majority in Greece...and even today Greeks remain relatively fair skinned compared to other Mediterraneans.

If there are important substantive differences between the genetic characteristics of different ethnic origins why are we getting so bogged down in discussion of skin and hair?

Do you have a sense yet of who this puppet is? He doesn't feel brand-spanking new...
I've suspected it's Nordland's for ages, beings as they always go on the same threads and support each other.

If there are important substantive differences between the genetic characteristics of different ethnic origins why are we getting so bogged down in discussion of skin and hair?
Because it's relevant to what he is arguing.

Do you have a sense yet of who this puppet is? He doesn't feel brand-spanking new...
Beats me...any hints?

Greeks remain relatively fair skinned compared to other Mediterraneans.Like the Spaniards?

They are darker than the Dutch, English, or actually, most of the other players on that page.
That is a matter of very slight degree...there are some swarthy people in each team, and who knows what the exact ethnic makeup of each individual is. Who cares? The point is, on average, Spaniards are much paler than Latin Americans, which was, as I've shown you, the point from the very beginning. Get back to me when you've found out about 'rubio/a'.

Because it's relevant to what he is arguing.

Surely cutting to the chase and showing these important substantive differences would then make sense? I don't think anyone here is claiming that the colour of skin or hair is important in any real sense, yet everything seems to have got sidetracked in that direction.

Like the Spaniards?
Or the Italians. Or the southern French. They all tend to be tan...although fairer if they are removed from their nations into a wintry environment.

If there are important substantive differences between the genetic characteristics of different ethnic origins why are we getting so bogged down in discussion of skin and hair?
It sort of just happened...Surf Shack got anal and started this campaign of senselessness.

That is a matter of very slight degree...there are some swarthy people in each team, and who knows what the exact ethnic makeup of each individual is. Who cares? The point is, on average, Spaniards are much paler than Latin Americans, which was, as I've shown you, the point from the very beginning. Get back to me when you've found out about 'rubio/a'.

Ok, look.

You say Spaniards are lighter than Latin Americans, everyone here agrees with you on that.

Me and Surf Shack have been saying that your original post that depicted spaniards are fair skinned and blonde is WRONG.


Can we agree on two above statements?

Surely cutting to the chase and showing these important substantive differences would then make sense? I don't think anyone here is claiming that the colour of skin or hair is important in any real sense, yet everything seems to have got sidetracked in that direction.
The thread's main purpose is guessing nationalities...everything being discussed here is somewhat off-topic. ;)

Germany is not Scandinavian. It is Nordic in origin. You are none the more correct for your poor attempt at pointing out Germany's Scandinavian roots. You failed in using facts, now you are attempting to point the finger at me...won't work.

Oh, and the original Greeks were majority fair skin and hair...later interaction with Eastern Europeans led to the current phenotypal majority in Greece...and even today Greeks remain relatively fair skinned compared to other Mediterraneans.
I said *more* *Scandinavian* in appearance. You just don't read too good. I've already demonstrated I have extremely adequate knowledge in this subject, so why do you keep assuming I am making the most base of mistakes in the simplest of matters?

Ok, look.

You say Spaniards are lighter than Latin Americans, everyone here agrees with you on that.

Me and Surf Shack have been saying that your original post that depicted spaniards are fair skinned and blonde is WRONG.


Can we agree on two above statements?
This is exactly what I was saying.

Beats me...any hints?
No...but it was pointed out by a mod that My Nordland isn't posting from where he claims to be, and from that I believe he is not in fact at all what he claims to be...it's quite possible that SS is his puppet considering the same tone they take.

I said *more* *Scandinavian* in appearance. You just don't read too good. I've already demonstrated I have extremely adequate knowledge in this subject, so why do you keep assuming I am making the most base of mistakes in the simplest of matters?
And I am saying you switching to the line "Scandinavian in appearance" is a cheap attempt to hide your ignorance.

Installment II (Part 2):

6. http://i2.tinypic.com/rk3g5i.jpg

7. http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/basque10_fr.jpg

8. http://www.aujourdhui.ma/alm_images/Noura-Skelli.gif

9. http://i2.tinypic.com/sxp4e9.jpg

10. http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/526/iranianoldandyoung5qj.jpg

11. http://journaldekabylie.iquebec.com/images/ferhat_mehenni.jpg

12. http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5854/north9et.jpg

13A. http://ent.nikkeibp.co.jp/ent/200512/images/hirai.jpg

13B. http://www.geocities.com/igoy_mulroney_marx/hiraiken/ken5.jpg

6. Left is white

7. Non-white

8. Non-white

9. White

10. The man in jeans is white, others arent.

11. The bearded man isnt white

12. Non-White

13. Non-white

No...but it was pointed out by a mod that My Nordland isn't posting from where he claims to be, and from that I believe he is not in fact at all what he claims to be...it's quite possible that SS is his puppet considering the same tone they take.
Nah, I know Ny Nordland...this moron is definitely not him. Ny would never make the mistake of relating Celtic with Scandinavian :p

Germany is not Scandinavian. It is Nordic in origin. You are none the more correct for your poor attempt at pointing out Germany's Scandinavian roots. You failed in using facts, now you are attempting to point the finger at me...won't work.

Oh, and the original Greeks were majority fair skin and hair...later interaction with Eastern Europeans led to the current phenotypal majority in Greece...and even today Greeks remain relatively fair skinned compared to other Mediterraneans.

Not all germans are nordic, some are dinarid ;)

Not all germans are nordic, some are dinarid ;)
Yeah, like I said, it has other admixtures. :)

Like the Spaniards?
LOL, and blond is common in Greece too, of course, which ironically is where my mother grew up, since my father was in the air force and was stationed there. And I just called her, and she said, and I quote "Actually they usually had dark, hair, olive skin, and they didn't shave their armpits. My mother grew up on the island of Crete, by the way. So, thank you for bringing in another nationality that I am very familiar with.

Nah, I know Ny Nordland...this moron is definitely not him. Ny would never make the mistake of relating Celtic with Scandinavian :p

Dont dignify such paranoiac posts with an answer...

Me and Surf Shack have been saying that your original post that depicted spaniards are fair skinned and blonde is WRONG.


Can we agree on two above statements?
Spaniards are fair of skin. You, in your obsession with whiteness, take 'fair of skin' to mean lily white (I can only assume this is true, but it seems to be). Fair of skin, in my opinion, is anything lighter than cafe con leche...as in, not naturally brown without a lot of exposure to the sun.

So, understanding now that I'm not saying they are lily white, but fair of skin, can you accept that?

As for me claiming they were fair and blonde...you misrepresent yet again. I said there are plenty of blondes there, which is true. SS seems to believe that plenty means I am claiming a majority. Not true. Nonetheless, the majority of Spaniards have fair hair...fair for white people often means 'white blonde', but fair hair can be anything that is not black or very dark brown. Many Spaniards do NOT have black or very dark brown hair, but run from light brown to blonde.

And I am saying you switching to the line "Scandinavian in appearance" is a cheap attempt to hide your ignorance.
LOL while it sounds more to me like trying to draw attention away from the fact I was right. You can't defend your original position, so now you just keep trying to pick at my wordings. Really well done, except that you lack substance.

11. http://journaldekabylie.iquebec.com/images/ferhat_mehenni.jpg

11. The bearded man isnt white


Have I been struck down with beard-blindness?

Anyway, sorry for participating in this hijacking...the little boys can continue on their own now.

LOL while it sounds more to me like trying to draw attention away from the fact I was right. You can't defend your original position, so now you just keep trying to pick at my wordings. Really well done, except that you lack substance.
My original position was that Spaniards are fair of skin and a good amount of them is mousy brown/blonde to light blonde. How is it not obvious?

LOL, and blond is common in Greece too, of course, which ironically is where my mother grew up, since my father was in the air force and was stationed there. And I just called her, and she said, and I quote "Actually they usually had dark, hair, olive skin, and they didn't shave their armpits. My mother grew up on the island of Crete, by the way. So, thank you for bringing in another nationality that I am very familiar with.
Cretians are darker than mainland Greeks, incidentally...I have a grandparent from Greece...and I've been there. So, don't deem yourself all too knowledgeable on the matter.

As for blonde being common in Greece, the reference was to ancient times, not modern. In Northern Greece, however, there is a greater amount of blondes than the southern parts and people tend to be somewhat fairer. It's also the region which mixed less with foreigners over the years.

Spaniards are fair of skin. You, in your obsession with whiteness, take 'fair of skin' to mean lily white (I can only assume this is true, but it seems to be). Fair of skin, in my opinion, is anything lighter than cafe con leche...as in, not naturally brown without a lot of exposure to the sun.

So, understanding now that I'm not saying they are lily white, but fair of skin, can you accept that?

As for me claiming they were fair and blonde...you misrepresent yet again. I said there are plenty of blondes there, which is true. SS seems to believe that plenty means I am claiming a majority. Not true. Nonetheless, the majority of Spaniards have fair hair...fair for white people often means 'white blonde', but fair hair can be anything that is not black or very dark brown. Many Spaniards do NOT have black or very dark brown hair, but run from light brown to blonde.
And I never said anything about skin color, but merely hair color. Can you see that? So lets move back to the part that I was arguing. You said there were plenty. I showed statistics that proved that was false. You then continued to ignore this. And I used to be HadesRulesMuch, so lets keep to the argument instead of you fellas trying to change the topic. Seeing as how you are wrong where I bolded.

And you can play with words if you like, but your defense has thus far been weak, and everyone reading has seen this. You can also claim that the definitions of colors are *relative,* but you live in Canada.


Why the fuck would you be using the Mediterranean defs of colors when you live in Canada?

Cretians are darker than mainland Greeks, incidentally...

As for blonde being common in Greece, the reference was to ancient times, not modern. In Northern Greece, however, there is a greater amount of blondes and people tend to be somewhat fairer. It's also the region which mixed less with foreigners over the years.
However, it is still not a common trait. And the Greeks you refer to didn't settle the Iberian, so its also moot. By the time the Iberian was settled the Greeks were closer to their current average appearnces. Goodness, when will you guys give up?

Liasia']It ALWAYS gets into you insulting me when i try and adress your posts. Makes me think you don't like me;)
Individuals, yes, but not races. As far as we can every individual should get equal opportunities- not depending on their skin or anythin else.

I'm not insulting you. I'm just emphasizing that your points are rather silly. But I mean your points/posts, not you.
Are you asking these obvious things on purpose? Are you really arguing against gravity? Of course pigmentation cant be the only difference. There are many other physical differences (like facial shapes, nose shapes, etc...) for starters and other genetic differences (think about race specific drugs some of which are much more effective then "non-racist" drugs).
There are even studies like this ( http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf) and many more....
You point has been debunked before and now debunked again...
There are many differences between races...Giving everyone equal opportunities doesnt require denying differences.

My original position was that Spaniards are fair of skin and a good amount of them is mousy brown/blonde to light blonde. How is it not obvious?
Actually, you defended Sinuhue's statement by claiming that mousy-brown meant blond

However, it is still not a common trait. And the Greeks you refer to didn't settle the Iberian, so its also moot. By the time the Iberian was settled the Greeks were closer to their current average appearnces. Goodness, when will you guys give up?
Blonde hair was still pretty common amongst the Greeks back then...its disappearance as a common trait only came with the Roman Empire, and then later with the Byzantine Empire, as Greeks intermingled more frequently with Eastern Europeans from nations such as Romania.

May I ask how old you are?

Why? You've run out of arguements and now you're going to make a cheap shot at their age?

Actually, you defended Sinuhue's statement by claiming that mousy-brown meant blond
Like I said, it can be defined either way. Over here it is regarded as a darker shade of blonde rather than true brown...we just refer to it as mousy hair colour, or mediterranean blonde...not even mousy blonde/brown.

I'm not insulting you. I'm just emphasizing that your points are rather silly. But I mean your points/posts, not you.
Are you asking these obvious things on purpose? Are you really arguing against gravity? Of course pigmentation cant be the only difference. There are many other physical differences (like facial shapes, nose shapes, etc...) for starters and other genetic differences (think about race specific drugs some of which are much more effective then "non-racist" drugs).
There are even studies like this ( http://www.ssc.uwo.ca/psychology/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf) and many more....
You point has been debunked before and now debunked again...
There are many differences between races...Giving everyone equal opportunities doesnt require denying differences.
Aye, but they are all small physical things. Nothin which should ever require treating someone differently, its still a convienient excuse tho eh?

You do know that many Spanish (from Spain) are fair skinned, blonde or lightly brunette?
Note again, you stated blond and lightly brunette as being different colors, which would indicate you meant blond in the yellowish sense, if you catch my drift.

Liasia']Aye, but they are all small physical things. Nothin which should ever require treating someone differently, its still a convienient excuse tho eh?
He isn't exactly requesting they be treated differently...just saying that there are some less-than-negligible differences.

Like I said, it can be defined either way. Over here it is regarded as a darker shade of blonde rather than true brown...we just refer to it as mousy hair colour, or mediterranean blonde...not even mousy blonde/brown.
Right and I pointed out then, as I do now, that she distinguished blond from that light brown (brunette), and I have quoted her above.

Ok, look.

You say Spaniards are lighter than Latin Americans, everyone here agrees with you on that.

Me and Surf Shack have been saying that your original post that depicted spaniards are fair skinned and blonde is WRONG.


Can we agree on two above statements?

Maybe depicting Spanish as blond is wrong since they are a small minority there. However, they are white/fair skinned. Not as fair skinned as us but they ARE relative to the world. Something like 85% of the world isnt even white!!

He isn't exactly requesting they be treated differently...just saying that there are some less-than-negligible differences.
I'd say they were negligible. Hardly makes them a different species.

Spaniards are fair of skin. You, in your obsession with whiteness, take 'fair of skin' to mean lily white (I can only assume this is true, but it seems to be). Fair of skin, in my opinion, is anything lighter than cafe con leche...as in, not naturally brown without a lot of exposure to the sun.

So, understanding now that I'm not saying they are lily white, but fair of skin, can you accept that?

As for me claiming they were fair and blonde...you misrepresent yet again. I said there are plenty of blondes there, which is true. SS seems to believe that plenty means I am claiming a majority. Not true. Nonetheless, the majority of Spaniards have fair hair...fair for white people often means 'white blonde', but fair hair can be anything that is not black or very dark brown. Many Spaniards do NOT have black or very dark brown hair, but run from light brown to blonde.
And again, no, blond is extremely rare. You can't use light brown and then say blonde means light brown. See why you sound like a broken record?

I would have to guess...

1. Papua New Guinean
2. Djiboutian
3. Saudi Arabian
4. Madagascarian
5. Bangladeshi

Right and I pointed out then, as I do now, that she distinguished blond from that light brown (brunette), and I have quoted her above.
You do realise that it is a shade that wavers between brown and blonde, and so could be classified either way?

Yeah, like I said, it has other admixtures. :)

yeah, especially some "germans" in the last couple decades...:headbang:

Maybe depicting Spanish as blond is wrong since they are a small minority there. However, they are white/fair skinned. Not as fair skinned as us but they ARE relative to the world. Something like 85% of the world isnt even white!!
No one, or at least not me, has contested the fair-skinned part. Just the blond.

Maybe depicting Spanish as blond is wrong since they are a small minority there. However, they are white/fair skinned. Not as fair skinned as us but they ARE relative to the world. Something like 85% of the world isnt even white!!
You mean them folk in Africa ain't white? :eek:

1: Indian
2. Arabian
3. Isreali
4. South American
5: Somali

You do realise that it is a shade that wavers between brown and blonde, and so could be classified either way?
LOL!
I'm done, fellas. You guys plainly are uninterested in honest facts, since you are now distinguishing between *shades of brown* to defend yourselves. And either way, I plainly showed that naturally blond hair is statistically rare in Spaniards. That means I proved my point. Feel free to pretend it didn't happen.

No one, or at least not me, has contested the fair-skinned part. Just the blond.

Yeah that's obvious...Anyone who disagrees with that is high...

Does anyone really give a shit if a certain group's hair is blonde or brown? They're both hawt colours in their own ways! :eek:

LOL!
I'm done, fellas. You guys plainly are uninterested in honest facts, since you are now distinguishing between *shades of brown* to defend yourselves. And either way, I plainly showed that naturally blond hair is statistically rare in Spaniards. That means I proved my point. Feel free to pretend it didn't happen.
My point is that choosing to classify mousy hair either as brown or blonde is a matter of arbitrary choice in the end.

Have I been struck down with beard-blindness?

Nah, he's just ugly and I think non-whites are usually ugly...

I think non-whites are usually ugly...

Gee... thanks... :rolleyes:

Nah, he's just ugly and I think non-whites are usually ugly...
Well, most are not what I'd call attractive...

Nah, he's just ugly and I think non-whites are usually ugly...
I disagree.

Liasia']I'd say they were negligible. Hardly makes them a different species.

Yes, but that makes them different races...

Yes, but that makes them different races...
Point?

Liasia']Point?
That the statement that the differences between them are only phenotypal does not stand -_- That is all he was saying.

So, Mr Op? Am I still 100% correct about the pics? You didnt reply me as "incorrect", unlike others?

Installment II Answers (Part 1):

1. Algerian (Kabyle Berber): Myriam Abel (born Myriam Abdel Hamid)

2. Moroccan: Abdelkrim Al Khatib, founder of the Islamist Justice and Development Party

3. South Indian: Aishwarya Rai

4. Iranian

5. Basque


Installment II Answers (Part 2):

6. Afghan

7. Basque

8. Algerian

9. Afghan

10. Iranian (photo taken in Tehran)

11. Moroccan (Amazigh)

12. North Indian

13. Japanese

Liasia']Point?

Point being that you've been wrong all throughtout the thread...

That the statement that the differences between them are only phenotypal does not stand -_- That is all he was saying.
Arg, they aren't any more than skin deep tho still. Minor physical differences are.. ah fuck it.

To the people who claim race is only skin deep. If people from different races are actually all the same, minus the skin color, why do some doctors work on medicines only for blacks, or only for whites, and why do blacks have different diseases than whites, and vice versa?

Honest question.

Point being that you've been wrong all throughtout the thread...
I just can't be bothered at 4 in the morning to argue about racism with a guy i've never (and frankly wouldn't want to) meet, on an anonymous forum. I'm as mad as hell, and i'm not going to take it anymore!

Liasia']Arg, they aren't any more than skin deep tho still. Minor physical differences are.. ah fuck it.
Phenotypal means in terms of appearances...according to scientists differences go as far as psychology and modes of thinking...for instance, East Asians use different parts of their brains to solve Maths than we do...their distinct evolution over many aeons has given them distinct traits.

None of those were correct.
#4 was...given it was a belated reply to instalment I

Phenotypal means in terms of appearances...according to scientists differences go as far as psychology and modes of thinking...for instance, East Asians use different parts of their brains to solve Maths than we do...their distinct evolution over many aeons has given them distinct traits.
I know what phenotypal means, thanks. As for the maths thing, I dunno. maybe.

Liasia']I know what phenotypal means, thanks. As for the maths thing, I dunno. maybe.
This is not a maybe...it is a fact. One of many. We are not arguing that people should be treated unequally simply because they are different...merely that these differences do in fact exist.

Liasia'] As for the maths thing, I dunno. maybe.

Nope. I'm East Asian, and I... HATE math with a passion. :)

Installment II Answers (Part 1):

1. Algerian (Kabyle Berber): Myriam Abel (born Myriam Abdel Hamid)

2. Moroccan: Abdelkrim Al Khatib, founder of the Islamist Justice and Development Party

3. South Indian: Aishwarya Rai

4. Iranian

5. Basque


Installment II Answers (Part 2):

6. Afghan

7. Basque

8. Algerian

9. Afghan

10. Iranian (photo taken in Tehran)

11. Moroccan (Amazigh)

12. North Indian

13. Japanese

5. Is this taken in Spain???
10. Everyone walking in Tehran is iranian? (no tourists?)

Nope. I'm East Asian, and I... HATE math with a passion. :)
Well, there is a similarity we do have. <.< :)

This is not a maybe...it is a fact. One of many. We are not arguing that people should be treated unequally simply because they are different...merely that these differences do in fact exist.
TBH i gave up about an hour ago (but don't tell Nordland:p ).
I'll just let you believe whatever.

Gee... thanks... :rolleyes:
Meh, hes allowed to have that opinion..even if not everyone agrees with it.

For instance, I find alot of hispanic girls hot, but on average, I tend to like White girls...nordic girls in particular.

Meh, hes allowed to have that opinion..even if not everyone agrees with it.

For instance, I find alot of hispanic girls hot, but on average, I tend to like White girls...nordic girls in particular.

People have preferences... its allllll good...