NationStates Jolt Archive

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

One need only say one thing: It's make-believe. Tada!

Whats make beleave?Religion?

Whats make beleave?Religion?

Your orthographical skills are but rivalled by your reading comprehension ability.

And I bet your a christian...
Well Ive got ways of dealing with people who mock me....
PUDDING!

You could at least try.

But on a more serios note there are two things he could of said that where make beleive
1.The list
2.Religoin

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!


http://www.spellcheck.net/

also, you could at least come up with reasons that are not so easy to rebut.

And I bet your a christian...

And I bet you're new around here.

Well Ive got ways of dealing with people who mock me....
PUDDING!

Nice to see you sticking with an impotent theme.

TSI is that you?

I picked the ones that are true. Name two things that the bible has proven.

Yes, okay, well, lets boil it down to half that:

1. Religion is, indeed, one big fairy tale.
2. The hardcore religious tend to be fools.
3. The original message of almost all religion has, over time, been twisted for the causes of evil and bigotry.
4. People need to be worshipping my most excellent personage.
5. The last thing is-and this is what everything boils down to-PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STUPID!!!

I picked the ones that are true. Name two things that the bible has proven.
I don't have to. You pick two things on your list that you can prove. ;)

And I bet you're new around here.



Nice to see you sticking with an impotent theme.
Actualy I've got a nation in the billions.Look me up. And yes I know the religoin thing is old but hey,I like watching people try and aswer my questions.

I picked the ones that are true. Name two things that the bible has proven.
1. Good stories sell.
2. It doesn't matter how you write, as long as it looks impressive.
Actualy I've got a nation in the billions.Look me up. And yes I know the religoin thing is old but hey,I like watching people try and aswer my questions.
Your post count, not too impressive though.

I don't have to. You pick two things on your list that you can prove. ;)
Jesus was jewish.
In the bible lots of cows where killed. I've tried counting.

Actualy I've got a nation in the billions.Look me up. And yes I know the religoin thing is old but hey,I like watching people try and aswer my questions.

What questions?

Now try this one.
Name two things on my list that you can disprove.

What questions?
Those questions.I've got a million of 'em.

TSI is that you?

Ye rang, hunny?

Also there is only one Christian I've known to ever admit that the stuff that happens in the bible(The flood,Noahs ark,etc...)Is just plain idiotic and is a lie.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

I have no idea why I am responding to this.

First of all, you should really spell-check your posts before you submit, especially since it is the OP.

1. There are many religions that agree on certain issues and 'disagree' on others. But religions are not some kind of sentient beings that go around wreaking havoc either, so I don't know how they could tell each other that they are wrong :rolleyes:
2. How do you know they are lying?
3. Where is the connection between God hating Hindus and cows? The fact that Hindus tend to be vegetarian, not because they worship animals but because they consider it to be healthier? Either way, I don't think God hates anyone.
4. I know many people, including myself, who have had a personal experience with God.
5. Again, religions are not sentient beings.
8. Yes, he was a Jew, but of course of he wouldn't have been Christian. Asumming that he was God, would he have needed to believe in himself in order to be saved? According to Christian doctrine, he was sinless :rolleyes:
9. Which government are you talking about?
10. *sigh*


Ultimately, you have to remember that there are as many religions in the world as there are people. I think Gandhi said something similiar.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)


1. Well, many religions don't exactly say that, but I suppose one could probably argue that it's implied.
2. They're lying? That's a little strong. There's a reasonable case to be made for "wrong" or "inaccurate," but "lying" requires a specific intent to deceive.
3. Um...right. Isn't this just point #1 again?
4. Which is different from point #1 how?
5. Hardly. It screws up some people's thinking, but I have met perfectly rational religious people.
6. These two things are not mutually exclusive in any way.
7. Untrue. I have met very few Buddhists or Shintoists who push their beliefs on me; nor do the overwhelming majority of Christians, Jews, or Muslims.
8. Your second point does not actually appear to follow logically from your first in any way.
9. There is more than one government in the world. I'm going to assume you mean the US government, in which case I'll certainly agree with you.
10. Untrue. I have never heard Wiccans or Taoists call Muslims infidels and murderers. In fact, I have never heard anyone in modern times use the very dated term "infidel" seriously. I've heard "murderers," but from crazed Christians and crazed athiests alike.

Ye rang, hunny?
I could have sworn that this fellow is a puppet of yours. I came to this conclusion when he uttered the sacred word of PUDDING.

Those questions.I've got a million of 'em.

But...you never asked anything. You just stated things which you believed are wrong with religion. No questions anywhere. Unless...have you been hiding questions from me? You have, haven't you?!? YOU BASTARD!!

But really, I mean it, what questions?

I could have sworn that this fellow is a puppet of yours. I came to this conclusion when he uttered the sacred word of PUDDING.

Sorry. You should know that I don't do puppets.

Nice to see you sticking with an impotent theme.

Dammit, you just made me choke on my cough drop. :p

1. Well, many religions don't exactly say that, but I suppose one could probably argue that it's implied.
2. They're lying? That's a little strong. There's a reasonable case to be made for "wrong" or "inaccurate," but "lying" requires a specific intent to deceive.
3. Um...right. Isn't this just point #1 again?
4. Which is different from point #1 how?
5. Hardly. It screws up some people's thinking, but I have met perfectly rational religious people.
6. These two things are not mutually exclusive in any way.
7. Untrue. I have met very few Buddhists or Shintoists who push their beliefs on me; nor do the overwhelming majority of Christians, Jews, or Muslims.
8. Your second point does not actually appear to follow logically from your first in any way.
9. There is more than one government in the world. I'm going to assume you mean the US government, in which case I'll certainly agree with you.
10. Untrue. I have never heard Wiccans or Taoists call Muslims infidels and murderers. In fact, I have never heard anyone in modern times use the very dated term "infidel" seriously. I've heard "murderers," but from crazed Christians and crazed athiests alike.
You've got some points. I shouldn't of said all religoins say that about muslims.It's mostly christains. And yes,they are lying. The get followers by putting fear into others.(With some ubjections)Also Yes,almost every government is dominated by religois thought. Also almost every religoin has its own variation of oblivion and go around shouting join or go to it or repent you infedels.

But...you never asked anything. You just stated things which you believed are wrong with religion. No questions anywhere. Unless...have you been hiding questions from me? You have, haven't you?!? YOU BASTARD!!

But really, I mean it, what questions?
My first question was actualy one of thoes questions.I'm going to stop there because if yu use a word more than twice you will go to hell:rolleyes:
Well thats how most religoins work any way.

I could have sworn that this fellow is a puppet of yours. I came to this conclusion when he uttered the sacred word of PUDDING.
I started the pudding thing a day or so ago.

My first question was actualy one of thoes questions.I'm going to stop there because if yu use a word more than twice you will go to hell:rolleyes:
Well thats how most religoins work any way.


What? Man, I'm telling you, you make no sense. I mean, really, fer chrissakes. Talking about first questions and "those questions..." Stop being so damned cryptic, damn your eyes!

And what word is this, if I may ask? I'd like to know, as I am most assuredly going to hell anyway (at least, I am by Christian standards).

Now I'm going on to the true point #11:

How can you trust somthing that tells you something and at the same time tells you its right? I'm not saying I'm right,as a matter of faact I could be very wrong.But do you see ANY riligoin standing up and saying that?

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

I agree religion is bullshit, but some of your points are misconstrued, and wrong. Not all religions think the MUslims are infidels. Your arguement seems more anti-Christian than anti-religion. Please, hate everyone equally ;) . Oh, and uh, use a spell checker next time. Also, many of your points are just, THIS IS RIGHT AND NOTHING ELSE. Although I probably agree with you on somethings, support the fact that, "Religion replaces GOOD decisions", not everyone thinks the same decisions are good. Just support your points

You bet it replaces good decisions with bad ones:rolleyes: like say condems?:mad:

What? Man, I'm telling you, you make no sense. I mean, really, fer chrissakes. Talking about first questions and "those questions..." Stop being so damned cryptic, damn your eyes!

And what word is this, if I may ask? I'd like to know, as I am most assuredly going to hell anyway (at least, I am by Christian standards).
Question is the word I'm talking about.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.

A trait common to most opinions.

2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.

Inaccurate if interpreted literally, sure.

3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)

No, He just likes the smell of burnt cow.

4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)

Which does not mean that they are all wrong.

5.It screwes up everyones thinking.

Some people's.

6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.

And bad decisions with (sometimes) better ones.

7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.

Not always. And if they really believe that I'll go to Hell if I don't believe the way they do, it's kind of reassuring that they make the attempt.

8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)

But, if we believe the Gospels, he broke enough with tradition to merit at least a radically different sect. And then Paul came along.

9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.

Here we agree.

10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

Slaughter attributable to religious fanaticism is common to pretty much every major religion, except perhaps Rabbinic Judaism.

11.Its not me being worshiped!

Nor I. A shame, isn't it?

Question is the word I'm talking about.


Aaaahhhhh. Now I begin to understand. And agree with you. Many, indeed, I would say most, religions do not encourrage questioning of their basic principles. Indeed, it is often rather the opposite.

I agree religion is bullshit, but some of your points are misconstrued, and wrong. Not all religions think the MUslims are infidels. Your arguement seems more anti-Christian than anti-religion. Please, hate everyone equally ;) . Oh, and uh, use a spell checker next time.
Spell check is the work of the anti pudding....
Sorry if I sound anti anything. I'm just pointing out what I beleive.Ya'll don't beleive what I"m saying if you don't want to but you won't find anyone religois person say that there religoin is BS.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!


1.Actually Christianity, Jewdaism, Islam and Mormonism all build on top of the foundations of each other, how much of it you believe is up to you.

2.That's not a reason, it's a close-minded slightly retarded opinion.

3. Well done.....you just disproved your own theories, if God hated Hindus he'd have to exist to hate them, ergo there is religion, not that he does necessarily hate Hindus but this statement shoots itself down really.

4. This again proves nothing, no one knows if aethism is right either, it's just another belief thrown in the pot with the others to make the world more interesting.

5. Only for extremists, religion is the basis for the law, order and morality of most societies, regardless of if you believe it (which I do personally) you follow it's teachings every day by following laws which are derived from religious beliefs.

6. How are Religious decisions bad decisions? Take the 10 commandments, not killing or stealing are good decisions as most would admit they are wrong, things such as not coverting or that you should honor your parents are common sense and make life easier.

7. I have never pushed my beliefs on others as I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want. I'll talk about it if people ask and discuss why I believe it if I'm asked. Like most moderate Christians (and most other faiths) I would not force my faith upon someone as you can't tell someone who to believe.

8. He was a Jew that came to bring on the next stage of jewdaism and create the Christian church, he founded Christianity and so was technically the first member of Christianity after returning. Other Jews then converted afterwards.

9. Most governments (ie: Britain, the US Constitution) were founded with religion as a key factor. Religion is a major part of many people's lives. It's the equivalent of saying "I don't have kids so surely child welfare is irrelevant to the government".

10. No real religion (Christianity or Islam included) support murder. Extremists from both have gone too far and done dumb things that killed people true but most haven't. Mistakes have been made and people have used religion as an excuse for war (Middle East, Northern Ireland, ect) but tarring everyone with the same brush would be encouraging the supposed right-wing close minded-ness people like you guys are meant to hate.

11. Thank God.





That was too easy, thankyou and good night. These are my beliefs and as I said in point 7 I won't force my opinions on others.

Spell check is the work of the anti pudding....
Sorry if I sound anti anything. I'm just pointing out what I beleive.Ya'll don't beleive what I"m saying if you don't want to but you won't find anyone religois person say that there religoin is BS.

Yeah,

1.Actually Christianity, Jewdaism, Islam and Mormonism all build on top of the foundations of each other, how much of it you believe is up to you.

2.That's not a reason, it's a close-minded slightly retarded opinion.

3. Well done.....you just disproved your own theories, if God hated Hindus he'd have to exist to hate them, ergo there is religion, not that he does necessarily hate Hindus but this statement shoots itself down really.

4. This again proves nothing, no one knows if aethism is right either, it's just another belief thrown in the pot with the others to make the world more interesting.

5. Only for extremists, religion is the basis for the law, order and morality of most societies, regardless of if you believe it (which I do personally) you follow it's teachings every day by following laws which are derived from religious beliefs.

6. How are Religious decisions bad decisions? Take the 10 commandments, not killing or stealing are good decisions as most would admit they are wrong, things such as not coverting or that you should honor your parents are common sense and make life easier.

7. I have never pushed my beliefs on others as I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want. I'll talk about it if people ask and discuss why I believe it if I'm asked. Like most moderate Christians (and most other faiths) I would not force my faith upon someone as you can't tell someone who to believe.

8. He was a Jew that came to bring on the next stage of jewdaism and create the Christian church, he founded Christianity and so was technically the first member of Christianity after returning. Other Jews then converted afterwards.

9. Most governments (ie: Britain, the US Constitution) were founded with religion as a key factor. Religion is a major part of many people's lives. It's the equivalent of saying "I don't have kids so surely child welfare is irrelevant to the government".

10. No real religion (Christianity or Islam included) support murder. Extremists from both have gone too far and done dumb things that killed people true but most haven't. Mistakes have been made and people have used religion as an excuse for war (Middle East, Northern Ireland, ect) but tarring everyone with the same brush would be encouraging the supposed right-wing close minded-ness people like you guys are meant to hate.

11. Thank God.





That was too easy, thankyou and good night.

Agreed, on most things. I do agree with the fact that some of the things the original poster said were unsupported and wrong. However, was the US founded on religion or religious freedom? If you look into it, you'll find many founding fathers were deists, atheists, or agnostics. Plus, although many democratic societies take from religion, they don't necessarily adopt the religion. For instance, on the Supreme Court building, there is a picture of Moses holding the ten commandments, except the first 5 (the ones dealing with religion) are covered up, leaving only the moral ones remaining.

1.Actually Christianity, Jewdaism, Islam and Mormonism all build on top of the foundations of each other, how much of it you believe is up to you.

2.That's not a reason, it's a close-minded slightly retarded opinion.

3. Well done.....you just disproved your own theories, if God hated Hindus he'd have to exist to hate them, ergo there is religion, not that he does necessarily hate Hindus but this statement shoots itself down really.

4. This again proves nothing, no one knows if aethism is right either, it's just another belief thrown in the pot with the others to make the world more interesting.

5. Only for extremists, religion is the basis for the law, order and morality of most societies, regardless of if you believe it (which I do personally) you follow it's teachings every day by following laws which are derived from religious beliefs.

6. How are Religious decisions bad decisions? Take the 10 commandments, not killing or stealing are good decisions as most would admit they are wrong, things such as not coverting or that you should honor your parents are common sense and make life easier.

7. I have never pushed my beliefs on others as I believe in everyone's right to believe whatever they want. I'll talk about it if people ask and discuss why I believe it if I'm asked. Like most moderate Christians (and most other faiths) I would not force my faith upon someone as you can't tell someone who to believe.

8. He was a Jew that came to bring on the next stage of jewdaism and create the Christian church, he founded Christianity and so was technically the first member of Christianity after returning. Other Jews then converted afterwards.

9. Most governments (ie: Britain, the US Constitution) were founded with religion as a key factor. Religion is a major part of many people's lives. It's the equivalent of saying "I don't have kids so surely child welfare is irrelevant to the government".

10. No real religion (Christianity or Islam included) support murder. Extremists from both have gone too far and done dumb things that killed people true but most haven't. Mistakes have been made and people have used religion as an excuse for war (Middle East, Northern Ireland, ect) but tarring everyone with the same brush would be encouraging the supposed right-wing close minded-ness people like you guys are meant to hate.

11. Thank God.





That was too easy, thankyou and good night.
BLEH!!!!I think I just puked when you began talking...

If what you just said was interpreted by the worlds best translator you have said....I'm right on some points and you misunderstood others. In the Bible it constitly talks about god therefore in the Bible there must be a god BUT ONLY in the bible. Another thing, started a religoin about himself....Vaneity...Look up those commandments and you would see that this contridicts them.One more thing...Why would I be a bad god?

Also religoin can be disproved and only certain wars and battles can be proved.

Also religoin can be disproved

How?

How?

By common sense

1. Well, many religions don't exactly say that, but I suppose one could probably argue that it's implied.
2. They're lying? That's a little strong. There's a reasonable case to be made for "wrong" or "inaccurate," but "lying" requires a specific intent to deceive.
3. Um...right. Isn't this just point #1 again?
4. Which is different from point #1 how?
5. Hardly. It screws up some people's thinking, but I have met perfectly rational religious people.
6. These two things are not mutually exclusive in any way.
7. Untrue. I have met very few Buddhists or Shintoists who push their beliefs on me; nor do the overwhelming majority of Christians, Jews, or Muslims.
8. Your second point does not actually appear to follow logically from your first in any way.
9. There is more than one government in the world. I'm going to assume you mean the US government, in which case I'll certainly agree with you.
10. Untrue. I have never heard Wiccans or Taoists call Muslims infidels and murderers. In fact, I have never heard anyone in modern times use the very dated term "infidel" seriously. I've heard "murderers," but from crazed Christians and crazed athiests alike.

Just out of curiousity, is Buddhism a religion?

By common sense

Then go ahead, disprove it with common sense.

No one can part water,its imposible to get every animal on a ship and what the heck was the big dude in the sky thinking of putting a naked man and women together in a garden with a snake...the worlds first porno!Mainly christain nocking but thats all I"m working on right now.

Of course the Bible says there's a God, it's (believed to be) an account of everything from the start of time to the birth of Christianity. It's the only major source suggesting the Christian God exists but it's one more primary source than there is prooving a lack of his existance.

An anti-relgious person can not make a good God, to be a good leader you have to believe in yourself and if you don't believe in God yet you are God you can't believe in yourself.;)

Just out of curiousity, is Buddhism a religion?
Yes,veggietariens.founded in china.

Of course the Bible says there's a God, it's (believed to be) an account of everything from the start of time to the birth of Christianity. It's the only major source suggesting the Christian God exists but it's one more primary source than there is prooving a lack of his existance.

if you don't believe in God yet you are God you can't believe in yourself.;)
Can you rephrase that?

Then go ahead, disprove it with common sense.

Okay, you can't make some outrageous claim and claim it to be true, using "Prove me wrong" as an arguement. It's like claiming "I am an alien" (outer space guys) and then using "Prove me wrong" as an arguement. This may seem pretty damn simple but originally that was what religion was. People made up Gods and afterlives to explain things they couldn't understand. Many of the things in the bible can be explained with science, and I can provide examples if you wish.

No one can part water,its imposible to get every animal on a ship and what the heck was the big dude in the sky thinking of putting a naked man and women together in a garden with a snake...the worlds first porno!Mainly christain nocking but thats all I"m working on right now.

That's still not proof, common sense can also go the other way, it can say there is a God as there is no other logical explaination as to what created life other than a being that is eternal and could exist before-hand, as nothing else could.

Common sense counts for nothing really, it's all up for interpretation.

No one can part water,

How do you know? Some say God can, because He's omnipotent. You make the assumption that He's not, yet have not justified that assumption.

its imposible to get every animal on a ship

God can create extra space too, surely.

and what the heck was the big dude in the sky thinking of putting a naked man and women together in a garden with a snake...the worlds first porno!

They had to become "of one flesh" somewhere.

Mainly christain nocking but thats all I"m working on right now.

Christians who embrace the literal truth of the Bible, that is.

Can you rephrase that?

In simple terms:

Bible only primary source suggesting existance of Christian God, there is no primary source to disprove that he did do these things.

Okay, you can't make some outrageous claim and claim it to be true, using the arguement "Prove me wrong" as an arguement. It's like claiming "I am an alien" (out space guys) and then using "Prove me wrong" as an arguement. This may seem pretty damn simple but originally that was what religion was. People made up Gods and afterlives to explain things they couldn't understand. Many of the things in the bible can be explained with science, and I can provide examples if you wish.
THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUOOOOOO! For that history on not only religoin but also on folk tales.Not you where problely making a point against me but its a good one. I'm not useing "prove me wrong" am i?

THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUOOOOOO! For that history on not only religoin but also on folk tales.Not you where problely making a point against me but its a good one. I'm not useing "prove me wrong" am i?

Not in the way I describe, but you really don't have any support either, my friend.

Just out of curiousity, is Buddhism a religion?
Yes, it is.

Okay, you can't make some outrageous claim and claim it to be true, using the arguement "Prove me wrong" as an arguement.

I have not made any "outrageous claim" on this thread, nor have I used "prove me wrong" as an argument for it. Himleret claimed that religion could be disproved, not that it couldn't be proved. You claimed that you could disprove it with common sense, yet have not done so.

Either abandon your earlier claim, or justify it.

In simple terms:

Bible only primary source suggesting existance of Christian God, there is no primary source to disprove that he did do these things.Science is the key here. If god made humans and all the animals on earth are his creations,why are we finding dino bones? Cave drawings? Oh, and uh....Sharks.Humongo Alligator fossils?

I have not made any "outrageous claim" on this thread, nor have I used "prove me wrong" as an argument for it. Himleret claimed that religion could be disproved, not that it couldn't be proved. You claimed that you could disprove it with common sense, yet have not done so.

Either abandon your earlier claim, or justify it.
Explain how much common sense you want and I'll give more.

I have not made any "outrageous claim" on this thread, nor have I used "prove me wrong" as an argument for it. Himleret claimed that religion could be disproved, not that it couldn't be proved. You claimed that you could disprove it with common sense, yet have not done so.

Either abandon your earlier claim, or justify it.

Alright my friend, let's take the classic of Sodom and Gomorrah. Now, here's an example of science disproving something religious. Were there two cities that got destroyed tragically? Yes. However, were these cities destroyed by THE ALMIGHTY GOD? No, there is a scientific explanation. I don't know about you but I don't feel secure on relying on a text that is from a time where many things weren't understood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah#Rationalistic_View

Problem is religion is too basic!!, Science is easier to prove!!

Explain how much common sense you want and I'll give more.

If you were able to use common sense to disprove the existence of God - the major tenet of some religions - that would be sufficient.

Okay,shoot a question and I'll aswer with as much common sense I can muster for a guy who thinks that spellcheck is the anti pudding,go on shoot.

Alright my friend, let's take the classic of Sodom and Gomorrah. Now, here's an example of science disproving something religious. Were there two cities that got destroyed tragically? Yes. However, were these cities destroyed by THE ALMIGHTY GOD? No, there is a scientific explanation.

And maybe God caused that earthquake. Or maybe the scientific evidence is wrong.

I don't know about you but I don't feel secure on relying on a text that is from a time where many things weren't understood

I don't either. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing the potential of common sense to disprove religion.

Science is the key here. If god made humans and all the animals on earth are his creations,why are we finding dino bones? Cave drawings? Oh, and uh....Sharks.Humongo Alligator fossils?

Does any of those say that you're right? No more than they support my beliefs I'm afraid.

It's widely believed by Christians that the Old Testament was simplified because of people's limited scientific knowledge of that time, not wanting to give more information than could be comprehended by people of the time the creation was simplified into 7 days, ect.

Jesus does infact say it himself that much of the things said were simplified as people wouldn't understand them, he said the same about Jewish law which is why there were so many laws in the old testament that few Christians still deem necessary, the concept of forgiveness and a messiah couldn't be contemplated as they had not been seen, God creating humans via evolution could not be contemplated as no one knew what on earth evolution was.

And maybe God caused that earthquake. Or maybe the scientific evidence is wrong.



I don't either. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing the potential of common sense to disprove religion.
Sigh...What if god was wrong to cause that quake? Say that the evidence is wrong,but god made a mistake and destroyed the wrong 2 citys...Maybe he didn't mean to hit D.C and the Vatican was his target.

If you were able to use common sense to disprove the existence of God - the major tenet of some religions - that would be sufficient.

Nobody can disprove nor prove the existence of God, but more likely than not he does not exist seeing as people guessed on what the higher power was and what his views and plans were. However, many things that the Bible and other religious texts claim can be proven wrong with science. Another example is Noah's Arc, how the hell did the whole world flood and one pair of each species of animal repopulate the entire world. I believe there might have been a huge flood, but the whole world? Doubtful. Once again, many phenomenon were not understood at the time

Sigh...What if god was wrong to cause that quake? Say that the evidence is wrong,but god made a mistake and destroyed the wrong 2 citys...Maybe he didn't mean to hit D.C and the Vatican was his target.

Accusing an allegedly omnipotent being of incompetence is rather absurd, isn't it?

Does any of those say that you're right? No more than they support my beliefs I'm afraid.

It's widely believed by Christians that the Old Testament was simplified because of people's limited scientific knowledge of that time, not wanting to give more information than could be comprehended by people of the time the creation was simplified into 7 days, ect.

Jesus does infact say it himself that much of the things said were simplified as people wouldn't understand them, he said the same about Jewish law which is why there were so many laws in the old testament that few Christians still deem necessary, the concept of forgiveness and a messiah couldn't be contemplated as they had not been seen, God creating humans via evolution could not be contemplated as no one knew what on earth evolution was.
Explain thy self.How do they support your beliefs?If time started when god made it start then surely there would be none of these things.

It is sad that although assuming we have Creator(s), we were endowed with reason, we fail to use it. Surely we were not given reason but to not use it like a pope's ding-dong? :p

And maybe God caused that earthquake. Or maybe the scientific evidence is wrong.



I don't either. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing the potential of common sense to disprove religion.

And perhpas I didn't state that this correctly, for which I take credit, but the existence of a higher being can neither be proved nor disroved, but the common sense of an individual can come to the conclusion that if someone tries to guess what the higher power is, what his/her circumstances are, etc..., they will probably be wrong.

Nobody can disprove nor prove the existence of God, but more likely than not he does not exist seeing as people guessed on what the higher power was and what his views and plans were.

You say they guessed. I might say so too. But that's not proof. That's an assumption based on your atheism, which makes the argument circular.

However, many things that the Bible and other religious texts claim can be proven wrong with science.

If you accept the literal interpretations to be true and if you don't think God fabricates scientific evidence, yes.

Accusing an allegedly omnipotent being of incompetence is rather absurd, isn't it?
Well it goes back to what every ones mom used to say...nobodys perfect. Also in personal experience christianity conflicts with its self. Some say god speaks threw the Bible and only the bible but others say god has actualy walked with them and told them to do things.

You say they guessed. I might say so too. But that's not proof. That's an assumption based on your atheism, which makes the argument circular.



If you accept the literal interpretations to be true and if you don't think God fabricates scientific evidence, yes.
Why would he fabricate somethig to disprove his actions and himself?

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.


Why is this "wrong"?


2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.

How can a collection of stories from a wide variety of sources be lying? I assume you meant "untrue". But no, we don't know that they are untrue because we weren't there when they happened. There is no basis to say that God or Jesese doesn't exist or miracles can't happen.


3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)


When was the last time you ate a hamburger. Does that mean you hate hindus?


4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)


Nobody knows anything


5.It screwes up everyones thinking.


Everyone's?


6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.


If the Christian God does exist and the Christian religion is following his path, then the "religious decisions" would be "good decisions".


7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.

What, they lock you up and make you believe what they do?


8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)

The CHRISTian religion is based on Jesus Christ.


9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.

Religious people might claim the same thing about atheists.



10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

I'm sure that muslims don't call themselves infidels and muderers. And they're a religions. And how can any religion call any other religion anything? You mean the people of a certain religion or a religion's beliefs are that muslims are "infidels"? If that is what you mean, it's not the truth

Well it goes back to what every ones mom used to say...nobodys perfect.

But God is (supposed to be.)

Also in personal experience christianity conflicts with its self.

People disagree, yes. Which only means that Christianity is incoherent if you accept all versions of Christianity as completely true. Nobody does that.

Jesus was jewish.
In the bible lots of cows where killed. I've tried counting.
oh, I am sorry I wasn't more clear, I meant prove two of your points not just two things.

see I can do this too

"Mars is a planet in our solar system, it's inhabited by evil cats."

Accusing an allegedly omnipotent being of incompetence is rather absurd, isn't it?

Assuming that omnipotent being is even there, that is the thing, WE DON'T KNOW, you will have to wait until you die to know. Oh, and I know you're probably going to assume that whatever afterlife there is there must be a higher being, and that because I think there might not be one that I don't believe in an afterlife, I have to tell you that's not true. There are many alternatives to an afterlife that entails a superpowerful being

Why would he fabricate somethig to disprove his actions and himself?

Why did He torture Job to see if he was sufficiently meek and faithful? Why did He tell Abraham to sacrifice his son? Why did He create us at all?

There's an unknowability clause in there for a reason.

You say they guessed. I might say so too. But that's not proof. That's an assumption based on your atheism, which makes the argument circular.



If you accept the literal interpretations to be true and if you don't think God fabricates scientific evidence, yes.

First off you made the incorrect assumption I was an atheist. Also, do you think God fabricated science? I'm just curious, because it seems more reasonable, but even so you're assuming that the afterlife is one of a surpeme being.

oh, I am sorry I wasn't more clear, I meant prove two of your points not just two things.

see I can do this too

"Mars is a planet in our solar system, it's inhabited by evil cats."
OK,Why have the Christian religoin? Judiasim was there first and it said the exact same thing minus Jesus.

Nobody can disprove nor prove the existence of God, but more likely than not he does not exist seeing as people guessed on what the higher power was and what his views and plans were. However, many things that the Bible and other religious texts claim can be proven wrong with science. Another example is Noah's Arc, how the hell did the whole world flood and one pair of each species of animal repopulate the entire world. I believe there might have been a huge flood, but the whole world? Doubtful. Once again, many phenomenon were not understood at the time
You are not disproving God. What you are doing is trying to disprove a literalistic interpretation of the Bible. Please learn the difference between the two or get out of the thread.

Assuming that omnipotent being is even there, that is the thing, WE DON'T KNOW, you will have to wait until you die to know.

Right, we don't know. It can't be proved or disproved.

Oh, and I know you're probably going to assume that whatever afterlife there is there must be a higher being, and that because I think there might not be one that I don't believe in an afterlife, I have to tell you that's not true. There are many alternatives to an afterlife that entails a superpowerful being

Actually, I assume nothing of the sort. Any dualist system can easily justify an afterlife, and the existence of a soul does not necessitate the existence of God. It would be harder to justify if you ascribe to a strictly materialist interpretation of consciousness, but still conceivable.

OK, you're misspelling words on purpose, right? No one is really that bad at spelling, right? Not important; just wondering! By the way, this is what I think about religion...

My particular religious denomination/faction is the only right one! It is also the most compassionate, harmonious, and peace loving of all religious denominations/factions! Take and trust my word on this or I'll be forced to call you out, start a war, and crush your pathetic, non-believing ass! I will kill you and thousands of your people to prove how peace loving I am! How's that? That should prove my religious denomination/faction is the most peaceful, don't ya' think! Religion is retarded; an excuse for people with inferiority complexes to prove they have balls in the name of peace, love and...RELIGION!!!

First off you made the incorrect assumption I was an atheist.

Atheist, agnostic, whatever you want to call your particular brand of non-theism; the argument you presented for it is still circular.

Also, do you think God fabricated science?

And now you're making the incorrect assumption that I'm a theist.

I'm just curious, because it seems more reasonable, but even so you're assuming that the afterlife is one of a surpeme being.

I haven't even mentioned the afterlife, except in response to you bringing it up in my last post.

I can name two religoins that make completely no sense at all.

1.Christianity:I've already explained why there is no need for it.
2.Confusiasim:It plays on morale decansy

You are not disproving God. What you are doing is trying to disprove a literalistic interpretation of the Bible. Please learn the difference between the two or get out of the thread.

I was only doing that because I incorreclty perceived Soheran to interpret the Bible literally; i know the difference.

I can name two religoins that make completely no sense at all.

1.Christianity:I've already explained why there is no need for it.
2.Confusiasim:It plays on morale decansy

How old are you?

OK, you're misspelling words on purpose, right? No one is really that bad at spelling, right? Not important; just wondering! By the way, this is what I think about religion...

My particular religious denomination/faction is the only right one! It is also the most compassionate, harmonious, and peace loving of all religious denominations/factions! Take and trust my word on this or I'll be forced to call you out, start a war, and crush your pathetic, non-believing ass! I will kill you and thousands of your people to prove how peace loving I am! How's that? That should prove my religious denomination/faction is the most peaceful, don't ya' think! Religion is retarded; an excuse for people with inferiority complexes to prove they have balls in the name of peace, love and...RELIGION!!!
Me and you should be friends.:)

How old are you?
Ya realy want to know?

Ya realy want to know?

Yes I do, because I would hope that a high schooler would know to say, "You and I" and to spell "really" correctly

Yes I do, because I would hope that a high schooler would know to say, "You and I" and to spell "really" correctly
I screw up the english language any way I want. I'm the only sane 12 year old on the planit TYVM.

Yes I do, because I would hope that a high schooler would know to say, "You and I" and to spell "really" correctly

You'd be surprised.

Also leave my age out of this.

OK,Why have the Christian religoin? Judiasim was there first and it said the exact same thing minus Jesus.

It did? Well, crap, I'd better let my Christian friends know they need to get circumcised and stop eating cheeseburgers. They aren't going to be happy...

read the bible and see what pleases god and what displeases god. You will see he is very pleased if you kill in his name. Especially sheep,poor little sheep riding peacably in an arc for 40 plus days and nights only to be brutally murdered by noa and pleasing god so much with the toture and burning of this poor animal he puts a rainbow in the sky. Go on to the other populare stories, where he kills all the first born in egypt sparing only those that have killed shepe and painted their doors with sheep guts. knowing how well god treats sheep I wonder why anyone wants god to be their shepard.

It did? Well, crap, I'd better let my Christian friends know they need to get circumcised and stop eating cheeseburgers. They aren't going to be happy...
Every one get curcumsised nowadays. Ang Jewish people dont eat PIG.

It did? Well, crap, I'd better let my Christian friends know they need to get circumcised and stop eating cheeseburgers. They aren't going to be happy...


Jesus died so I could eat cheeseburgers. Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth.

read the bible and see what pleases god and what displeases god. You will see he is very pleased if you kill in his name. Especially sheep,poor little sheep riding peacably in an arc for 40 plus days and nights only to be brutally murdered by noa and pleasing god so much with the toture and burning of this poor animal he puts a rainbow in the sky. Go on to the other populare stories, where he kills all the first born in egypt sparing only those that have killed shepe and painted their doors with sheep guts. knowing how well god treats sheep I wonder why anyone wants god to be their shepard.
So he hates animals.Not true as humans are animals also so he must hate livestock.Damn them for living on farms!DAMN THEM!
I use god in the most sarcastic manner possible to fit this joke.

Jesus died so I could eat cheeseburgers. Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth.
OMFG ROFLMAO!

I would like to take this time to say that curcomecision is becoming a requirement....

i was wondering when i was going to see another "religion is evil, atheist rule" thread

Every one get curcumsised nowadays. Ang Jewish people dont eat PIG.

Oh, dear child, you make me laugh. Lots of people don't get circumcised, especially outside of the United States. And the kosher rules are a wee bit more in-depth than "no PIG."

(Also, there are a heckuva lot of other differences, most of them far more important than not eating meat and dairy together, between Christianity and Judaism. The whole "circumcision required" thing just seemed like something a lot of Christian men might find a particularly objectionable difference to ignore.) :p

I would like to take this time to say that curcomecision is becoming a requirement....


Okay, seriously, www.dictionary.com

FUcking use it

Jesus died so I could eat cheeseburgers. Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth.

While I doubt it was his primary purpose, if one is to believe the teachings of Christianity, Jesus did sort-of-kind-of die so you could eat cheeseburgers. Isn't that awesome? :)

Oh, dear child, you make me laugh. Lots of people don't get circumcised, especially outside of the United States. And the kosher rules are a wee bit more in-depth than "no PIG."

(Also, there are a heckuva lot of other differences, most of them far more important than not eating meat and dairy together, between Christianity and Judaism. The whole "circumcision required" thing just seemed like something a lot of Christian men might find a particularly objectionable difference to ignore.) :p
Don't talk like that.You sound like a pedophile. Aside from a few differences the beliefs are the same.I know lets all join that religois organization Australia based on the Jedi!

i like pie

FUcking use it
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PUDDING IS NIGH!
GASJHSUE!UGHFUESHINGSEA ISBA OAHSDG!
OR....
i will use it when I want.HA!

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PUDDING IS NIGH!
GASJHSUE!UGHFUESHINGSEA ISBA OAHSDG!
OR....
i will use it when I want.HA!

Why couldn't puberty set in before kids figured out how to join a forum?

It's a plot to annoy the living hell out of you.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.


Nah only the organized religions.


2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.


It's metaphor silly.


3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)


Hate is a sign of weakness. If you attribute hate to god you have made a fallacy of some sort.


4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)


They are all partly right.


5.It screwes up everyones thinking.


If you don't understand it.


6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.


Sometimes the best decision is provided by religion. To live in this world you need to be a scientists, an engineer, an athlete, and have a fundamental understanding of the religions of everyone you interract with.


7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.


Many religions do not recruit. Some few do not recruit, and do not breed...


8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)


He was a Jewish reformer. Thus making Reformism best :)


9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.


That's governments fault, not religions.


10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)


Few relgions call muslims infidels. Infidel is a very specific word, used by a very specific group of people, to refer to another specific group of people.



*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

You don't have your own religion? I've made several :) Hell my country is named after 2 of mine.

Don't talk like that.You sound like a pedophile. Aside from a few differences the beliefs are the same.I know lets all join that religois organization Australia based on the Jedi!

I think pedophiles usually say things like "I think you're sexy," rather than "I think you're hysterically ill-informed." But I will refrain from thanking you for making me laugh if you like. :p

And those "few differences" are legion. Please, try actually reading a religious text or two sometime before you present yourself as knowledgeable, because you're truly sounding absurd.

Don't restate points that others have made and I've explained.

I've read and then burnt various copys of the bible and thr Tora.

I've read and then burnt various copys of the bible and thr Tora.
They burn nicely if you do it right.

They burn nicely if you do it right.

What the fuck is the point of quoting yourself? Just edit your damn post.

I bid yall adue! Telegram me with hate mail luv mail any mail ya want no bombs though.Can't digest those. HEIL PUDDING!I'm outie.

I luv you Himleret.I shall grovel at your feet forever!
I'm flattered!

Well, since we are obviously entitled to freely express religious views on this thread, I'd like to add my two cents!

Church is where the wicked go to lie to themselves and attempt to lie to their friends, family, and community by trying to convince the aforementioned that they aren't who they, in fact, are...the Wicked! I know plenty of liars, cheats, whores, thugs, etc...that go to church for the sole purpose of concealing their guilt and/or denying their wrong doings! As long as they attend church on Sunday they can't be all bad, right??? BULLSHIT!
Now please, don't misunderstand me, there are genuinely good people attending service every Sunday!!! But there are also alot of wolves in sheep costumes; dumbasses who can't (or choose not to) understand that spending an hour in the house of an invisible, all-knowing, compassionate entity does not excuse or forgive their wickedness!!! Sad, but true!!!

I'm flattered!

You think you're being clever by doing that, but people can just scroll through the page to see that I didn't say that, and that in fact I said something else. Plus you're painting a bull's eye on yourself for the Mods.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

1.How i dont remember the Bible saying a religion is 'wrong' just misinterpreted.

2.Lying where did you find this discovery? since not even the best of scientist can tell us that. and the Old testament is the most reliable historic source about the History of the Jewish people calling that a lie is a insult againts them. the Koran also shows a great deal of background of the formation of the Islamic empire in 600AD MOST sources will tell you to look at these books to understand the culture at the time aswell.

3.God never said anything againts sacrifice infact before jesus it was a practise preformed everyday in juadism and if the Temple of Jerusalem (the only temple allowed to accept them) then Jews would do it today but the romans destroyed the temple thus the jews had nowhere to sacrifice.

Where does it show that god hates hindus? thats a bit stupid since Jews didnt even know the Hindu's where there to begin with.

4.The people in the religion knows. who are you to say that Evolution is right? Like most atheist your ignoring what you want and only taking in what suits your beliefs. Dont use this againts me ive just told you i also read the Toah and Koran and i did allot of research on Darwinism.

5.This is a insult not a statement your saying this because your small little mind cannot think of a good arguement. (true this is also a insult but hay like i care).

6.I suppose killing 6 million Jews is a good Atheist descision. Sure Hitler belived in god but remember that Hitler thought HIMSELF as god.

7.I dont infact i got 3 friends which are goths, 1 thats a bit of a easy one and i dont get involved with there lives. this is also something your trying to pass on as Fact just because TV shows Christians doing this remember. Real Christians are diffrent.

8.That is the most stupid statement i ever heard JESUS FOUNDED THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION he cant be christian since there were no christians at the time. He started it thats like saying Buddha was Buddist, Buddha was a Hindu he only started the Religion infact he was only trying to tell us how to live our lives in a better 'moral' statis.

9.Sure your President is a Christian but what about the other hundred people in your republic and hay isint it YOU who have the choice about who goes in? if you dont vote then dont complain about the state of your government because you simply dont give a dam about it. George W. Bush won the election because you Americans dont like voting not because he was popular.His christian links are just a scapegoat by the Republicans to push the blaime away from them. i noticed that when his polls started to fall THATS when he started running around sayin how much of a GREAT christian he was. Before that he rarely mentioned it in public

10.Christians invaded the Middle East to RECLAIM the holy lands remember most of those lands along time ago were CHRISTIAN infact Alexandra and Jerusalem had the Religious Influence the same as Rome when they were Christian. Then the MUESLIMS invaded and forced conversion. infact at the time there was a large minority of Christians in the Middle East which were being treated badly under islamic rule.

11.You make these kind of mistakes nobody ever will.

Maybe next time you should move that FAKE to the top since you dont know anything about Religion and thus have no right to critize it.

I dont like getting involved in these things but when i see somebody argue with little REAL fact behind there arguement and just filled with steriotypes.

Study your history before you comment on it. (ive been top of the class ever since i started history) i know my history and i know that your comments on the crusades is worthless. and im telling the truth the Torah and Koran are great Historical sources you read them and you know everything that went on. if you write a history essay based on what they tell you, you will get top marks (i go to a public school so you cant use that on me Religous teaching are frowned on at my school).

I can't believe you managed to narrow the list down to only 10....

You've got some points. I shouldn't of said all religoins say that about muslims.It's mostly christains. And yes,they are lying. The get followers by putting fear into others.(With some ubjections)Also Yes,almost every government is dominated by religois thought. Also almost every religoin has its own variation of oblivion and go around shouting join or go to it or repent you infedels.

People get exposed to Christianity, and then they go, religion sucks!

You are confusing religious with moral thought. It's just tough to seem moral without acting religious.

Dude, how many religions do you know? Has anyone every threatened to turn you into a mao button? It's not that bad.

I can't believe you managed to narrow the list down to only 10....

OMG there are people who actually think his rubbish is FACT.

[EDIT] WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO????

as far as im concerned he has got 0 real points. he dosnt know anything when it comes to Religion he just takes in what he hears and thinks it is facted. lol facted i mean 'fact'

The most critical thing wrong with organized religion is that it is the more detrimental to spritiual growth than anything else I can think of.

The narrow confines of religion actually restrict any understanding of deity and soul to a rigid structure of rules and caveats. If you think outside the box of your particular religion, you'll be outcast, unless you keep your thoughts to yourself.

It's not surprising though, a great number of people seem to want people to do their spiritual thinking for them. It's easier to let the priest, minister, rabbi or imam tell you what to think than it is to let yourself get in touch with something larger than yourself on your own - because that would just be scary.

The most critical thing wrong with organized religion is that it is the more detrimental to spritiual growth than anything else I can think of.

The narrow confines of religion actually restrict any understanding of deity and soul to a rigid structure of rules and caveats. If you think outside the box of your particular religion, you'll be outcast, unless you keep your thoughts to yourself.

It's not surprising though, a great number of people seem to want people to do their spiritual thinking for them. It's easier to let the priest, minister, rabbi or imam tell you what to think than it is to let yourself get in touch with something larger than yourself on your own - because that would just be scary.

THANK YOU somebody here can show some real facts.

Im a outcast of my religion and i do think most Religions are narrow and yes im totally againts people who only listen only to there religous leader.

i also dont like how the church modernizes itself just to get more people and then they get surprised when they get the 'wrong' people.

Thank you this is the stuff i like to hear people who KNOW what there talking about.

OMG there are people who actually think his rubbish is FACT.

[EDIT] WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO????

as far as im concerned he has got 0 real points. he dosnt know anything when it comes to Religion he just takes in what he hears and thinks it is facted.
as opposed to your excellent fun- and fact-filled rebuke?

OMG somebody critized what i wrote im so hurt. ill never write again blah blah blah...im guessing this is what you expected?

Read your history books and you will see.

Okay, first of all, I hope that you do realize that starting a thread about why religion is stupid is going to be offensive to quite a few people. Just because you don't think something is right, or even makes sense, why do you feel that you have to tell EVERYONE about it? I'm not a vegetarian, but I don’t find people who refuse to eat meat and tell them why they are wrong. I’m not going to convince them, and I’d be acting like a jerk. Second of all, some of the arguments you people are bringing up are just ridiculous. If you don’t know what you are talking about, please don’t.

Second, I have two points. About Jesus, yes, he was Jewish. So were all of his Disciples. In fact, for a long time, it was ONLY Jews who were preached to by the Apostles. It wasn’t until after Christ’s resurrection that he told Peter to preach to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. He also said that he came to fulfill the Law of Moses, that it was obsolete after his death (see Acts 15:5-11, Matt 5:17, etc). The Law of Moses was a preparatory law given to the children of Israel to prepare them for the coming of Christ and the new law that would be given by him. Also, the very name ‘Christian’ was originally a derogatory term given to followers of Christ by the Romans, much like the term “Yankee.” And, also like their American counterparts, those who followed Christ adopted the name as their own; they began to call them selves Christians. In Christian doctrine, this is not a new, different religion from Judaism; it is simply a higher law that was given to fulfill the Law of Moses.

Finally, I’d like to turn this around. Prove to me that God doesn’t exist. Really, make me believe that there is no God.

I bet they will throw back something Prycon. if it does or does not make sense is the question.

I mean i wrote something and look what they came out with.

if i *snip* a post about jews, is it like a thread circumcision?
at the time of Jesus there were messiahs popping up left, right and centre, because the jews were under harsh roman occupation, and waiting for deliverance. Christ was the most successful of these, not because he was G-d, but because he had some damned fine biographers. Christianity might have come about without Christ, but not without Paul.

at the time of Jesus there were messiahs popping up left, right and centre, because the jews were under harsh roman occupation, and waiting for deliverance. Christ was the most successful of these, not because he was G-d, but because he had some damned fine biographers. Christianity might have come about without Christ, but not without Paul.

How was Christ most successful? Didn't the Romans just appropriate his cause, then totally utterly change it?

The most critical thing wrong with organized religion is that it is the more detrimental to spritiual growth than anything else I can think of.

It is a mistake to let your religion become to organized.

Reformism, that's a good religion. Iconoclasm. That sort of stuff.

How was Christ most successful? Didn't the Romans just appropriate his cause, then totally utterly change it?
Christ's teachings were the only ones to successfully propagate; other messiahs came and went, and were forgotten. It still took the romans until 313 to 'appropriate' his cause.
and actually, the romans only formally appropriated a version that had already become dominant. in early christianity, there were two main sects, the organised religionists, and the mystics. the mystics lost out, which is why some gospels, like the gospel of judah, were lost.

OMG there are people who actually think his rubbish is FACT.

[EDIT] WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO????

as far as im concerned he has got 0 real points. he dosnt know anything when it comes to Religion he just takes in what he hears and thinks it is facted. lol facted i mean 'fact'

Lol, I didn't even read his list. I just don't like religion.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

1. I won't say none, but very few religions detract from the validity of other religions. Christianity says it's the only way to get to God. Islam says it's the only way to get to Allah. So? If you're not a Christian, you don't care about spending eternity with God and if you are not a follower of Islam, you don't care about spending eternity with Allah. Christians would tell Muslims they are going to hell. For a Christian, spending eternity surrounded by Muslims basking in the grace of Allah would be hell, so they are absolutely correct.

2. Lying implies that someone actually knows the truth and is presenting the wrong information. I think the religious texts would be more along the lines of "this is what I think" and goes at it from there. You can't tell someone they don't know what they are thinking.

3. I think it would be more proper to say "God hates cows". If God hated Hindus, Hindu killing in the Bible would be common.

4. True. In order to know what religion was right, one would have to know right for what. Words like "right", "best", and "good" imply a quantity is being measured without specifying what quality is being measured, hence meaningless.

5. Worthless statement. Not even worth addressing. Ok, worth addressing a little bit to say it's not worth addressing.

6. See #4. Good doesn't mean anything by itself.

7. Sweeping generalization. Not all religions are evangelical and the ones that are all have warnings about prostelytizing. In Christianity, Matthew 7:6 addresses this nicely:
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
My interpretation of this: don't preach to idiots.

8. Relevance?

9. Too involved? Quality please.

10. Tu quoque? Even if I murder 100 people, I can still call you a murderer even if you've only murdered one person. If someone commits a crime, quantity doesn't make them any less guilty or innocent.

Lol, I didn't even read his list. I just don't like religion.

Im sorry if i caused offence then.

We're all gunna die... Weeeeeeeeee!!!! :D

which is why some gospels, like the gospel of judah, were lost.

What i wonder is how the Gospel of Judah is written by him since the other books in the new testament save paul wernt written by the disciples.
but by the people the disciples preached too.

OK,Why have the Christian religoin? Judiasim was there first and it said the exact same thing minus Jesus.
Do you not understand what Christian means? Do you know nothing about Judaism?

are you a troll? or are you just very young and parrot back what others tell you is true about the world?

What i wonder is how the Gospel of Judah is written by him since the other books in the new testament save paul wernt written by the disciples.
but by the people the disciples preached too.

Which ones? The Four Gospels were written by four Apostles, Acts by Peter (I think), the Epistles by various apostles, mostly Paul, and Revelations by John. I may be incorrect, but I think they were all written by the Apostles.

Also, several other books have been lost, mostly during the time of Christian persecution before the Edict of Milan. A few others were lost before the reformation. Do we know what was/might have been contained in the book of Judah?

Which ones? The Four Gospels were written by four Apostles, Acts by Peter (I think), the Epistles by various apostles, mostly Paul, and Revelations by John. I may be incorrect, but I think they were all written by the Apostles.
Also, several other books have been lost, mostly during the time of Christian persecution before the Edict of Milan. A few others were lost before the reformation. Do we know what was/might have been contained in the book of Judah?

Luke, the Physician was actually a Greek and not an Apostle.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!


1. Not really. Each one will say that the messiah's other religions worship were prophets, but not the Messia.
2. I like to think each book is made for the time when it made sense. When we didn't have the understanding of science and the human self like we have now. Therefor, it doesn't hold as much water as it did way back then.
3. lol
4. No one knows if any religion is right, or whether they are all wrong.
5. Yeah, contradictions a plenty.
6. Most of the times, sometimes the books are correct, usually not.
7. A lot of them do, but I don't see many Buhdist's or Daoists (excuse spelling) pushing their beliefs on others =P
8. Ehh...But the Jews don't acknowledge him as a Messiah, so those who think he is needed their own religion.
9. Agreed
10. Not all do. Ive studied a lot. Most of them dont even designate Muslims in any way, shape, or form.
11. Infidel. :)

That's intersting... So Luke was not an apostle, and was sainted by the Catholic church later?

Now try this one.
Name two things on my list that you can disprove.

Fair enough. One is provably false. Many religions are not exclusive. The only thing one can draw from argument one is that your experience with religions is very limited.

Two, on your best day you can't prove any religious book is lying. You could possibly prove a particular version is wrong, but lying requires intent.

Three is obviously ridiculous. The idea that religions disagree has nothing to do with who God hates.

Four, interesting you claim that nobody knows which is right, but you also claim you know they're all lying. Looks you don't have a consistent standard of what consists of 'knowing'.

Five, if one just one person is religious and does not have screwed up thinking as a result, then you are proven wrong. I submit myself for your scrutiny. Prove I have screwed up thinking as a result of religion or admit myself as an exception disproves your rule.

Six, you start with the premise that good decisions cannot be religious ones. False premise, false statement.

Seven, again, false generalization. The members of some force their beliefs on others. Some religions are quite selective on who can follow their beliefs and who can follow their religion.

Eight, Christians believe Jesus is Messiah. Are you saying Jesus doesn't believe what he preached? Also, you draw a false conclusion. Christianity worships Jesus. The fact that Jesus didn't worship himself has no meaning in whether he was worthy of worship.

Nine, again, false generalization. What involvement does the Wiccan religion have in government? You are speaking of particular religions, not religions in general... and you're points still suck.

Ten, again, false generalization. Does the Wiccan religion call the Muslims infidels? Your ignorance of non-Abrahamic religions is saddening.

Sorry, I only managed to disprove 10 of the 11 statements. You were right with number 11 and I can't imagine better evidence for the value of human intelligence.

4. Like most atheist your ignoring what you want and only taking in what suits your beliefs.


Argh. Please, for heaven's sake, don't consider one extraordinarily badly-informed, hyperactive twelve-year-old to be a reasonable representative of athiests at large. Most of them are saner than this.

[QUOTE=Himleret]1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

that's not even worth a valid response:sniper:

We're all gunna die... Weeeeeeeeee!!!! :D

:eek:

When good people do bad things - its religion

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.


Buddhism, motherfucker, do you know it?!
[/Samuel L. Jackson]

Each of the 8 points dismissed without having to pause to think. (except for speling) Point 3 wasn't even a point and point 7 was almost exactly point 1, regardless the same answer applies.

1. Buddhism, Wicca, any of the zillions of faiths that teach of an interpersonal relationship with the divine
2.Buddhism, Wicca, Jainism, any of the zillion + 1 faiths that don't have a set codex
3.Not even a relevent point
4.Religion is "right" if it gives a person comfort when dealing with the big issues like death or the meaning of life, and if it sets down a sutable ethical code....lets be honest, an all powerful being/force/whatever isn't going to care for the details.
5.Point has not been backed up, may I call your attention to "la divina commedia" which uses religious thought to put forward serious socio-political viewpoints, english translation available for free in the internet...read it.
6.Far less frequent then the substitution of good decisions for political manovers, only occurs in cases of religious fanaticism such as Iran and America (Btw, the Iranian government was overthrown by the U.S. for ecconomic reasons, to curb the new one the Baath party was installed in Iraq...now go write 10 things that are wrong about capitalism)
7.As point 1
8. Jesus marked a new hope and promice for the jews that formed christianity, only applies to one religion.
9.Seperation of church and state common point in most european constitutions...watch and learn
10. Does not apply to most religions, does not apply to any right-thinking follower of any faith.

And as an encore;
10 things that are wrong with atheists

1. Never, ever study the faiths they criticise.
2. Attempt to force atheism on perfectly happy people who are content to leave them be.
3. Assume ever religion is based on the Jewish/Christian/Islamic model (Convertist, monotheist, set codex ect...)
4. Prone to cling to other "ideals" such as nationalism to guide themselves
5. Possess a conter-productive attitude that lead them to beleve there "rational" views make them correct. (Your average born again Xtian is ever so slightly more likly to listen to my arguements, for example, then your average atheist.
6.Refuse to accept that religion and science can be happily married.
7.Criticise texts like the bible/torah ect, yet cling to hurah words like "liberty"
8.Dis-inclined to consider long term and wide scale implications of their actions due to the absence of judgement/karma ect.
9. Perfectly willing to discount religious answers as nonsence, without providing any alternative explanation.
10. Refuse to admit atheism is a religion dispite the fact that it takes the creation of the universe, development of life, goverance of reality as we know it ect, and attributes them to science or chance. (Lets face it, that prity much makes these things the infalable divine force doesn't it. "god" doesn't have to be a bearded man on a cloud)

And one more, because it realy gets to me
10+1 will argue with me about the nature of deities I have worshiped for five years, dispite the fact they only heard of them or indeed my religion 4 minutes ago...from me.

Disclamer - Does not apply to all atheists, only the "militant-I'm-better-than-you-because-I'm-rational" types who critasise religion in general over a few idiot points, if that, because fundamentaly they don't understand. Yes I am sick of it. Speling still far from perfect.

---End of rant---

That's intersting... So Luke was not an apostle, and was sainted by the Catholic church later?

Um, what's an Apostle? They were all made "Apostles" by the Catholic church.

Christ's teachings were the only ones to successfully propagate; other messiahs came and went, and were forgotten. It still took the romans until 313 to 'appropriate' his cause.
and actually, the romans only formally appropriated a version that had already become dominant. in early christianity, there were two main sects, the organised religionists, and the mystics. the mystics lost out, which is why some gospels, like the gospel of judah, were lost.

John the Baptists teachings are still with us. The Pharisees lived on.

The mystics, or gnostics, did not die out actually. In fact, they're has been a continuing tradition of gnostics (who still follow John the Baptist actually), to this day.

you won't find anyone religois person say that there religoin is BS.

This is the most stupid thing I have ever heard (Posably) Simple explanation in that if they did think their religion is BS, then they would change it.

And as an encore;
10 things that are wrong with atheists

1. Never, ever study the faiths they criticise.You're gonna have a tough time backing that claim.2. Attempt to force atheism on perfectly happy people who are content to leave them be.I've never witnessed anyone try to force atheism on anyone.3. Assume ever religion is based on the Jewish/Christian/Islamic model (Convertist, monotheist, set codex ect...)In my experience, that's far more often true about Christians & Muslims.4. Prone to cling to other "ideals" such as nationalism to guide themselvesAnd that would be pretty much the exact opposite of what I see every day in newspapers & on forums. Fascistoid nationalism seems to be a side effect of the Abrahamic religions.5. Possess a conter-productive attitude that lead them to beleve there "rational" views make them correct. (Your average born again Xtian is ever so slightly more likly to listen to my arguements, for example, then your average atheist.So.. A rational approach to a problem, is wrong & counterproductive? If that's what you're saying, then I don't ever want to be right - and if that really was what you meant, then it shouldn't surprise you people don't pay attention to you.6.Refuse to accept that religion and science can be happily married.Not really. Science is inherently a-religious & has to be, to remain science. I think you'll find most religious scientists will agree with me.7.Criticise texts like the bible/torah ect, yet cling to hurah words like "liberty"Why is that wrong?8.Dis-inclined to consider long term and wide scale implications of their actions due to the absence of judgement/karma ect.Rubbish. Only strict followers of religious doctrine don't need to (and can't usefully) question the consequences od their actions.9. Perfectly willing to discount religious answers as nonsence, without providing any alternative explanation.So.. Honesty is the worst policy, right? Far better to invent an answer to suit you, than to admit you don't have one..10. Refuse to admit atheism is a religion dispite the fact that it takes the creation of the universe, development of life, goverance of reality as we know it ect, and attributes them to science or chance. (Lets face it, that prity much makes these things the infalable divine force doesn't it. "god" doesn't have to be a bearded man on a cloud) Atheism is the state of not believing in the divine. It's quite possible to be religious & atheist at the same time. Millions of Buddhists are, for example.And one more, because it realy gets to me
10+1 will argue with me about the nature of deities I have worshiped for five years, dispite the fact they only heard of them or indeed my religion 4 minutes ago...from me.Don't invite a debate if you don't want a contrary opinion.Disclamer - Does not apply to all atheists, only the "militant-I'm-better-than-you-because-I'm-rational" types who critasise religion in general over a few idiot points, if that, because fundamentaly they don't understand. Yes I am sick of it. Speling still far from perfect.So.. who exactly do you think your bullshit list applies to?

1. Never, ever study the faiths they criticise.
Bullshit. I know more about the Bible than the average Christian and I'm working on the Koran. I've studied Hindu faiths and Buhdism lightly.
2. Attempt to force atheism on perfectly happy people who are content to leave them be.
Only if the religious bring up their idiocy.
3. Assume ever religion is based on the Jewish/Christian/Islamic model (Convertist, monotheist, set codex ect...)
No we don't.
4. Prone to cling to other "ideals" such as nationalism to guide themselves
Uh, no.
5. Possess a conter-productive attitude that lead them to beleve there "rational" views make them correct. (Your average born again Xtian is ever so slightly more likly to listen to my arguements, for example, then your average atheist.
Well, they do. Fairy tales aren't worth listening to when there are reall problems to be solved.
6.Refuse to accept that religion and science can be happily married.
No. Science can not invoke the supernatural.
7.Criticise texts like the bible/torah ect, yet cling to hurah words like "liberty"
Critisism is part of liberty.
8.Dis-inclined to consider long term and wide scale implications of their actions due to the absence of judgement/karma ect.
More bullshit. It's called ethics and common sense. Most atheists I know have them. Can't say the same for the religious.
9. Perfectly willing to discount religious answers as nonsence, without providing any alternative explanation.
As i said, fairy tales.
10. Refuse to admit atheism is a religion dispite the fact that it takes the creation of the universe, development of life, goverance of reality as we know it ect, and attributes them to science or chance. (Lets face it, that prity much makes these things the infalable divine force doesn't it. "god" doesn't have to be a bearded man on a cloud)
Uh, no. Religion is set in stone. Science says that that's the way it probably happened and we'll change it if we get enough evidence that says otherwise.
Disclamer - Does not apply to all atheists, only the "militant-I'm-better-than-you-because-I'm-rational" types who critasise religion in general over a few idiot points, if that, because fundamentaly they don't understand. Yes I am sick of it. Speling still far from perfect.
1. We are better because we're rational.
2. Religion is a caner on humanity.
3. It's not that we don't understand. We know perfectly well that we've fooled yourself into thinking that you experience another presence. We don't care.
4. You are not better than a Christian or Muslim just because your religion is unconventional. All spirituality is a lie and prevents people from realizing that life is ultimately pointless so you ay as well live it to the fullest or kill yourself.

Every one get curcumsised nowadays. Ang Jewish people dont eat PIG.

That was a referance to the line that runs roughly "Thou shalt not cook the kid in the mothers milk" Which means that Jews can't eat meat and dairy products together, they must wait until they have fully digested on before they may consume the other.

Please refrain from mentioning Jewdaism in future as you obviously know nothing about it. (an example for point one of my first post)

You're gonna have a tough time backing that claim.I've never witnessed anyone try to force atheism on anyone.

I have.

Science is inherently a-religious & has to be, to remain science.

True... but perhaps not the best way to phrase it. People confuse science with, search for truth, or trying to understand the world. People also confuse religion with the supernatural and superstition.

Science can not deal with the supernatural. However you can do a scientific study of relgious subjects. You can scientifically study greek myths, and people have.

That was a referance to the line that runs roughly "Thou shalt not cook the kid in the mothers milk" Which means that Jews can't eat meat and dairy products together, they must wait until they have fully digested on before they may consume the other.

That made some sense before people understood how disease work. Now it's not really necessary, but ritual rocks. Sacrifice rocks. It's not like Jews try to convince the rest of the world stop eating pigs, or mixing dairy and meat, or anything.

Bullshit. I know more about the Bible than the average Christian and I'm working on the Koran. I've studied Hindu faiths and Buhdism lightly.


Haven't we all?



Well, they do. Fairy tales aren't worth listening to when there are reall problems to be solved.



Silly, fairy tales give us moral lessons which show us how to solve real problems. They allows us to model complicated situaionts, simply. Instead of a nuclear weapon, it's a magic sword, but you can still tell a story about how to handle the ultimate weapon. Etc.



No. Science can not invoke the supernatural.



Well put.




Uh, no. Religion is set in stone. Science says that that's the way it probably happened and we'll change it if we get enough evidence that says otherwise.



Many relgions are creedless, or just encourage reform movements within themself. You claim to have familiarity with world religion, and yet think religion is always set in stone?



2. Religion is a caner on humanity.



Religion may be a cancer... but it's as intrinsic to human nature as well, cancer. I don't consider it cancer anyway, but my point is, there will always be religion.


4. You are not better than a Christian or Muslim just because your religion is unconventional. All spirituality is a lie and prevents people from realizing that life is ultimately pointless so you ay as well live it to the fullest or kill yourself.

Everything is a lie. Science is a lie. Religion is a lie called metaphor. Religion is the simplest way to pass on values within society. If you can't read Plato, Socrates etc. you can get by if you just watch Christmas movies.

You're gonna have a tough time backing that claim.I've never witnessed anyone try to force atheism on anyone.In my experience,


I have, supose it's about the company you keep *shrugs*(Many psudo-intellectuals in my case, often hoplesly jaded in true teen style) Perhaps you do not have a visable indicator of religious affiliation?

that's far more often true about Christians & Muslims.


See OP, and only very isolated one (and fanatics, who don't count as people IMOH)

And that would be pretty much the exact opposite of what I see every day in newspapers & on forums. Fascistoid nationalism seems to be a side effect of the Abrahamic religions.


OK, I understand this view to a point, but so many other factors come into play here...there is a very Us Vs Them attitude developing, No?

So.. A rational approach to a problem, is wrong & counterproductive? If that's what you're saying, then I don't ever want to be right - and if that really was what you meant, then it shouldn't surprise you people don't pay attention to you.


It is not "rational" to discount a potential solution because you don't like the implications ie. we are not the be all and end all of the universe

Not really. Science is inherently a-religious & has to be, to remain science. I think you'll find most religious scientists will agree with me.


Not true, take M-theory for example...string vibrating, giving themselves and all matter its properties, interacting to form the universe...everything is part of a great symphony, perhaps you have heard of "the music of the spheres"

Why is that wrong?


When one is raised to beleve in a certain system, for example Christian = good or White = good, they are prone to act in very stupid ways, religion politics or whatever, this is an arguement against the religion = bad view

Rubbish. Only strict followers of religious doctrine don't need to (and can't usefully) question the consequences od their actions.


"I don't care...it doesn't affect me" Try rasing awareness about drag netting or indentured labour somtimes...you'll wish everyone beleved in Karma

So.. Honesty is the worst policy, right? Far better to invent an answer to suit you, than to admit you don't have one..


It makes sence to me, it's all cycles. (I'm not going to try and explain my whole philosophy here, but it makes sence to me)

Atheism is the state of not believing in the divine. It's quite possible to be religious & atheist at the same time. Millions of Buddhists are, for example.


The divine does not have to be a creator, it can be the sum of all that exists working like a perfect machine, the cycilic universe, eco-systems...with this in mind we are all part of the divine, that philosophy is generaly refered to as "neo-paganism"

Don't invite a debate if you don't want a contrary opinion.


You assume I invite debate at this point...this occurs when somone picks out the pentangle I wear around my neck and decides to tell me I worship satan or some such nonsence, but atheists are inclined to tell me that any religious view is a form of self-delusion(see post below my first responce), you're responce to point one indicates that you have never witnessed this, regardless it does happen

So.. who exactly do you think your bullshit list applies to?


basicly the OP...did try to indicate this in the little disclamer but evidently failed, no offence was intended to one such as yourself, capable of argueing above the "there is no god lalala" level, which you must admit is showing itself here

Please note that my list was intentaly writern with the same wide brush that the OP was made with, hence the disclamer. I assumed that that would be obvious but evidently not.

wow Sim and Neo, commendable defense, I just stopped reading his attack on Aethists after the first couple of items dismissing them for more of the same dogmatic crap I get from my Christian friends whenever they try to bring up faith.

now I am not an Aethist but I am a skeptic, so no idea where that lands me on that "religious spectrum"

Bullshit. I know more about the Bible than the average Christian and I'm working on the Koran. I've studied Hindu faiths and Buhdism lightly..

Aimed at OP, clarification now given

Only if the religious bring up their idiocy..

This was a responce to an anti-religious post...Idiot

No we don't..

OP did, did it not?

Uh, no..

Fine...what about the soviet union and eastern orthadoxy.

Well, they do. Fairy tales aren't worth listening to when there are reall problems to be solved..

Faerietales exist to teach morals to the young in a way they understand

No. Science can not invoke the supernatural..

Nor does religion, if it happened it is natural....science does accept that the rules can be bent or broken, such as when approaching the speed of light, there is no one set of rules.

Critisism is part of liberty..

Again USSR, change the word but the principle remains (I'm pro liberty btw, in a proper socal contract of course)

More bullshit. It's called ethics and common sense. Most atheists I know have them. Can't say the same for the religious..

Yep, but not all...this wasn't actualy directed at "most atheists" I hope I've clarified this.

As i said, fairy tales..

A simplified explanation for a complex principle, not unlike "there are three states of matter" (this isn't true...nor is it a faerietale)

Uh, no. Religion is set in stone..
Protistantism (as in, if religion is set in stone...how can a whole faith reform *sigh*)

1. We are better because we're rational.
2. Religion is a caner on humanity.
3. It's not that we don't understand. We know perfectly well that we've fooled yourself into thinking that you experience another presence. We don't care.
4. You are not better than a Christian or Muslim just because your religion is unconventional. All spirituality is a lie and prevents people from realizing that life is ultimately pointless so you ay as well live it to the fullest or kill yourself.

Proves my point rather better then yours I'm afraid (That last bit is a small example of what I was refering to in point one simil)

wow Sim and Neo, commendable defense, I just stopped reading his attack on Aethists after the first couple of items dismissing them for more of the same dogmatic crap I get from my Christian friends whenever they try to bring up faith.

Need I say more?

now I am not an Aethist but I am a skeptic, so no idea where that lands me on that "religious spectrum"

Agnostic

Do we know what was/might have been contained in the book of Judah?

Not 100% but I think that particular book was mainly tied up with the missing years of JC. I will contact a more reliable sorce and get back to you

Your post count, not too impressive though.


Dont be snotty, theres always someone with a bigger post count.

Yours is tiny to me....

The number of posts you have means nothing towards he validity of your point of view.

I believe religion is good, cause god forgives u for whatever u do: :sniper: :mp5:

I got no problem with Witchcraft New-Avalon as long as you dont practice it's 'darker' side then im alright.

Which ones? The Four Gospels were written by four Apostles, Acts by Peter (I think), the Epistles by various apostles, mostly Paul, and Revelations by John. I may be incorrect, but I think they were all written by the Apostles.

Also, several other books have been lost, mostly during the time of Christian persecution before the Edict of Milan. A few others were lost before the reformation. Do we know what was/might have been contained in the book of Judah?

The first 3 books or the 'gospels' are not written by them they were written by the people the disciples were preching to. you will notice none of the people who wrote them shared a name with a disciple.

I heard all that was in there was a person claiming to be Judah making excuses for his actions. person trying to push the blaime onto somebody.

But then if thats the case then how did he manage to write a book in the 30 minutes it toke him to go and hang himself. no i think there something more interesting otherwise we would have gotten a hint by now.

The later ones are sorry i was generalising a bit.

I got no problem with Witchcraft New-Avalon as long as you dont practice it's 'darker' side then im alright.

Actualy...my prime path of study is Black Magick, I am indeed a "black witch" and have dedicated most of my meta-physical study to the sinister, dark side.

BUT - Common misunderstanding...

Black magick is not evil, it doesn't deal with hexes or blights or whatnot (nor does any Wiccan...bad for Karma) What it deals with are the Feminine principles, IE. Creation and presivation.
White magick deals with the Masculine principles of Destruction and renewal.
They're both amoral.

Just need to make that clarification every now and again, blessed be.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
Actually, only a few of them do if you generalize all the denominations into one big religion.

2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
Nah, they just have non-literal bits.

3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
Hindus don't not sacrifice cows (in fact, unlike other religions, they sacrifice ONLY cows), they just don't eat their sacrifices. ;)

4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
That's because they all are.

5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
Only those who don't understand. ;)

6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
It makes good religious 'decisions' that shouldn't be mistaken for decisions, or science.

7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
Nah, only those who proselytize.

8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
LOL

9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
In the States, yeah.

10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)
You got me, there.

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!
How do you know? :)

Actualy...my prime path of study is Black Magick, I am indeed a "black witch" and have dedicated most of my meta-physical study to the sinister, dark side.
I still don't understand why wiccans deal with unnatural magic over the more druidic sorts of invocation. It seems like a much more logical progression of thought from the wiccan creed to not cause harm to work with nature rather than contrary to it.

BLEH!!!!I think I just puked when you began talking...
Oooh! Lovely debating style.

Oooh! Lovely debating style.
In a live debate, vomiting during the opponent's remarks might actually look quite impressive.

I still don't understand why wiccans deal with unnatural magic over the more druidic sorts of invocation. It seems like a much more logical progression of thought from the wiccan creed to not cause harm to work with nature rather than contrary to it.

Scusi? Where do you get your information? our power is the direct channeling of the "all", which we gain from our closeness to Gaia. We invoke the watchtowers with a request, dismiss them with a thankyou and give sacrafice to them (Bread/oatcakes, Water/Wine and occasionaly silver). We keep the Sabbats and Esbats to bring us closer to the change of seasons...why do you think we work against it? it doesn't make sence.

In a live debate, vomiting during the opponent's remarks might actually look quite impressive.
Just so. :D

I can't wait to try it out.

EDIT: LOL, Dang, I wish our political debates went like that...

Scusi? Where do you get your information? our power is the direct channeling of the "all", which we gain from our closeness to Gaia. We invoke the watchtowers with a request, dismiss them with a thankyou and give sacrafice to them (Bread/oatcakes, Water/Wine and occasionaly silver). We keep the Sabbats and Esbats to bring us closer to the change of seasons...why do you think we work against it? it doesn't make sence.
A wiccan friend of mine has always said that the ultimate aim of wiccan magic is to use the loopholes in the system to allow the individual to impose their will upon natural process. It may just be his own personal stance on it, of course, but I've not really had reason to question it so far. Sorry if I've caused offense, but what interaction with wicca I've had has been about manipulating and contravening nature's flow rather than working alongside it.

Actualy...my prime path of study is Black Magick, I am indeed a "black witch" and have dedicated most of my meta-physical study to the sinister, dark side.

BUT - Common misunderstanding...

Black magick is not evil, it doesn't deal with hexes or blights or whatnot (nor does any Wiccan...bad for Karma) What it deals with are the Feminine principles, IE. Creation and presivation.
White magick deals with the Masculine principles of Destruction and renewal.
They're both amoral.

Just need to make that clarification every now and again, blessed be.

Thats why i said 'dark' not 'black'.

[Edit] My brother was a Wicca so i have a 'basic' understanding not great but basic. but man some things he practice wasnt very amoral lets put it that way. No wait i contradict myself he wasnt Wiccan i cant remember what he was it was something similar.

I have one brother was a satanist got out when his 'friends' asked some real sick sh** for him to do..

Oh no, no offence at all...but I wouldn't be surprised to hear you're friend hadn't had much luck...there are no loopholes to the system, it can't happen. and we can't fight the natural order because we are not gods...just fragments of them. This is why we have Patron deities, to guide and empower us, I know a few ecletics who have contacted spirit guides *shrug*
But no, we are part of the cycle and will forever remain until we go back to Her arms (This is also why flying broomsticks are out, but say, invisability is posable)

I side with Phenixica

Thats why i said 'dark' not 'black'.

[Edit] My brother was a Wicca so i have a 'basic' understanding not great but basic. but man some things he practice wasnt very amoral lets put it that way. No wait i contradict myself he wasnt Wiccan i cant remember what he was it was something similar.

I have one brother was a satanist got out when his 'friends' asked some real sick sh** for him to do..

"Dark" is not harmful. a Wiccan is correct, Satanists don't do thinks like that...they're an agnostic group that beleve in self accountability, I beleve you are looking for the term Luciferian (Anti-Catholics, basicly)

Minor points, so sorry for nit picking, but while I'm here

I side with Phenixica

Where is the conflict in which you side with her?

Scusi? Where do you get your information? our power is the direct channeling of the "all", which we gain from our closeness to Gaia. We invoke the watchtowers with a request, dismiss them with a thankyou and give sacrafice to them (Bread/oatcakes, Water/Wine and occasionaly silver). We keep the Sabbats and Esbats to bring us closer to the change of seasons...why do you think we work against it? it doesn't make sence.


Mind if I ask a question or two?

1. Do you claim to be able to cast spells?

2. Have you ever seen any tangible proof of any such spell that worked, or "came true"?

Where is the conflict in which you side with her?


Her?????? im a guy lol.

Mind if I ask a question or two?

1. Do you claim to be able to cast spells?

2. Have you ever seen any tangible proof of any such spell that worked, or "came true"?

Yes and yes, I don't care if you don't and have no intention of proving it to you. (Besides the subtle nature of it only produces "co-incidences" as I was trying to explain) Anything else?

Mind if I ask a question or two?

1. Do you claim to be able to cast spells?

2. Have you ever seen any tangible proof of any such spell that worked, or "came true"?

Witchcraft isint all about spells. there is allot os theology in it. infact i really respect the Wicca. Also Wicca Theology can make more sense then most Main stream ones.

Her?????? im a guy lol.

Heh, your loss

Appologies...I assume any name ending in a is feminine...Italian thing.

Witchcraft isint all about spells. there is allot os theology in it. infact i really respect the Wicca.

BELCAMERON *********************************************** :fluffle:

Her?????? im a guy lol.

*whispers to New-Avalon* i know her, she really is a female.

Yes and yes, I don't care if you don't and have no intention of proving it to you. (Besides the subtle nature of it only produces "co-incidences" as I was trying to explain) Anything else?


Yes.



1. Why did you become so defensive when I asked you of spells and such?

2. If any such result is coincidental, how can you be sure you did it right?

No problem naming yourself after a Mystical Bird isint very masculine but ive always had a thing for the Phoenix.

Phoenix+Pheonix+ica-o=Phenixica

anyway i must go i got school tommorow. if the thread is still alive ill come back tommmorow.

Witchcraft isint all about spells. there is allot os theology in it. infact i really respect the Wicca. Also Wicca Theology can make more sense then most Main stream ones.

It's a religion, nothing else. We use magick as an aspect of prayer...not unlike a buddhist may use meditation.

Anyone in it for the magick is
a. not a wiccan
b. in for a disappointment, how can one control what one does not understand?

I dont claim to understand it. Im just simply a very unorthodox Christian.

You cant have religion without theology.

now i really have to go. Bye

Yes.
1. Why did you become so defensive when I asked you of spells and such?
2. If any such result is coincidental, how can you be sure you did it right?

1. Because I get asked the same questions -sssooo- often, and it's always kids going "prove it" as if they expect me to have any desire to do so (not always, but usally...it's also half 12 here (gmt) and I havn't slept, sorry)

2. When you have felt the undiluted praxis enter your body...all that is and all that will be, rush through your system and out again...beleve me, you know. (This was after a simple ritual, so no oxygen deprivation, sunstroke or whathaveyou) Of course I don't know for sure that I didn't hallusinate it, or myself...this is why it is a faith.

I dont claim to understand it. Im just simply a very unorthodox Christian.

You cant have religion without theology.

now i really have to go. Bye

Yes you can.

You can have idealogy, instead.

Taoism.
Confucism. (sp?)

Probably others I cant think of.

Unorthadox Christian...yeah me too, once. Ariverderchi

Yes you can.

You can have idealogy, instead.

Taoism.
Confucism. (sp?)

Probably others I cant think of.

Now this depends on how you define "divinity", those paths seek ballace and knowlage, It's prirty much just a matter of wording

Anything else while I'm here squatch? or anyone else

1. Because I get asked the same questions -sssooo- often, and it's always kids going "prove it" as if they expect me to have any desire to do so (not always, but usally...it's also half 12 here (gmt) and I havn't slept, sorry)

So, its a Pavlovian reaction to a tiresome question.
Got it.

So then, you mentioned "Black Magick" earlier and made a clarification.
Tell me, how exactly is it more sinister than "white magick"?




2. When you have felt the undiluted praxis enter your body...all that is and all that will be, rush through your system and out again...beleve me, you know. (This was after a simple ritual, so no oxygen deprivation, sunstroke or whathaveyou) Of course I don't know for sure that I didn't hallusinate it, or myself...this is why it is a faith.

Im afraid I dont know what an "undiluted Praxis" is, but Im guessing its not unlike some sort of "Holy Spirit" type of thing.
The problem I have with that sort of experience is, that it tends to be soley within an individual, and not something experienced at the same time, by multiple witnesses, and if so...it can usually be chalked up to social suggestion.

In other words, the natural skeptic in me thinks that a person can feel, as they are expected to.

Sinister just means left handed, left is Feminine because it carries the sheild rather than the sword. Black magick, and darkness in general were vilanised basicly as a (very successful) atempt to subjugate women (Hence original sin)

And yeah...holy spirit is a fairly decent explanation, it's basicly life itself, without form.
As for the social sugestion, again a posability...then again we don't discuss what we're suposed to feel beforehand (It's common BTW, we tend to work in Covens that gather together 21 times a year).

Sinister just means left handed, left is Feminine because it carries the sheild rather than the sword. Black magick, and darkness in general were vilanised basicly as a (very successful) atempt to subjugate women (Hence original sin)


So, whats the practical difference, between the utilization of the two?

My problem with religion is the silly outfits. It's hard enough to believe in the first place - why make it harder with all the funny hats?

My problem with religion is the silly outfits. It's hard enough to believe in the first place - why make it harder with all the funny hats?


Funny hats are like battle scars, the more you get, the more respected you get.

So, whats the practical difference, between the utilization of the two?

All sorts realy, you want to make somthing come to you or remain with you, sheild yourself ect, you use black. If you want to get rid of somthing, replace somthing ect, use white.

Good props for the former act are dark stones and candles, the chalice and couldren, the approprate phase of the moon ect. For the latter, lighter candles, torches (old school) Swords daggers, lots of light ect
You can invoke different deities (Diana and Lugh are my most common)...it's freeform, it's just about honing the will to focus on what you want and to feel the strands of posability.

My problem with religion is the silly outfits. It's hard enough to believe in the first place - why make it harder with all the funny hats?

We work naked...is that better? (of course this isn't often posable...so robes then). But no hats.

1. We are better because we're rational.

Proven wrong in numbers 2, 3 & 4. Doesn't it suck when your own statements are used to show you're full of crap. Ouch. Keep posting though. You amuse me.

2. Religion is a caner on humanity.

Religion when used for power is a cancer, but then so is nationalism and nearly every other -ism I can think of. Methinks someone's not being very rational.

3. It's not that we don't understand. We know perfectly well that we've fooled yourself into thinking that you experience another presence. We don't care.

Prove it. If your position is the rational one then you should be able to prove that every religious person is fooling themselves and couldn't possibly be right. It's gonna take a while. I'll wait, Mr. rational.

4. You are not better than a Christian or Muslim just because your religion is unconventional. All spirituality is a lie and prevents people from realizing that life is ultimately pointless so you ay as well live it to the fullest or kill yourself.

Again, if you were rational you could prove this or admit you didn't 'realize' anything, but that you have FAITH that life is pointless. And faith is a spirituality. Can anyone say irony?

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!
1. My religion of my invention doesn't disregard others but instead tries to incorporate their prime figures.
2. I don't have a book. Yet. And it won't lie.
3. I eat cow, yes, but sacrifices and such...no. Just food.
4. My religion may be right or wrong, but it's based upon reality.
5. It encourages thinking and research into important people in history.
6. Decisions are made based on WWJD principles and reality.
7. I don't bother...I'd be happy to teach, just TG me and I'll describe it!
8. Um...I knew that. And I don't believe in his divinity either.
9. My religion is mine and mine only...no gov't involved.
10. Nothing to do with mine...not bothering.
11. Of course not...you're not dead.

My religion also states: "feedeth not the troll, for he shalt never pick up his tab".

What is with this whole 'Jesus is a jew' thing HE WAS but he started preching a diffrent message, one diffrent from a jewish one. He got followers people who saw him do great things he cant be christian because he himself is the very meaning of Christian (hence Jesus CHRIST) a follower of Christianity if a follower in Christ NEW message and not the old jewissh teachings.

Saying he is a Jew means nothing anyway at that time Jew wasnt only a religion but a culture&Race Jesus was Jewish by heritage not by religious thought.

What is with this whole 'Jesus is a jew' thing HE WAS but he started preching a diffrent message, one diffrent from a jewish one. He got followers people who saw him do great things he cant be christian because he himself is the very meaning of Christian (hence Jesus CHRIST) a follower of Christianity if a follower in Christ NEW message and not the old jewissh teachings.

Saying he is a Jew means nothing anyway at that time Jew wasnt only a religion but a culture&Race Jesus was Jewish by heritage not by religious thought.

You...couldnt POSSIBLY be any more incorrect than you are right now.

Heh I love it, 10 reasons why you don't like Christianity you mean?

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

1;Yes, of course he does, but he don't deny there are other gods does he?(Wouldn't you like having monopoly on being god?)

2;Lying? How do you know? But of course, bible, or such things are written by men and thus interpreted words by god (if you're a beliver of course)

3;So you hate Hindus because you kill cows? Same goes for flies and all living animals as well... It's just not cows you know.

4;If you KNEW what was right, it wouldn't be called belif, right? And again, different people read different things of same words.

5;Does it? How? Example please. Again, it's not the religion in it self, it's the people.

6;Most religions have good things in it,and is that a bad thing?

7; Of course, don't you want people to be saved from hell of diffrent kinds and show them the path to thread?

8;Well, yes he was jew, he don't deny that, but he turned against some of the practises of the priesthood and their ways. The biggest difference btw christians and Jews are that christians think jesus was Messiah, jews are still waiting. (thus, old testamony should be tossed aside by the christians.)

9; Yes,and that's agreeable, an bad thing, if you don't share it's value, but change goverment

10;Not each religion no. Christians and Jews, rest don't care as much, if they're not involved in some kind of conflict with them. But there are extremists in all sides.

11; Create a cult that worships you then.

Not 100% but I think that particular book was mainly tied up with the missing years of JC. I will contact a more reliable sorce and get back to you

You're thinking of the Gospel of Thomas, otherwise known as the Infancy Gospel.

It's a fairly interesting read because in that version, Jesus actually starts out as an evil brat who lies, cheats, kills and uses his powers for his own selfish reasons, until he mellows out and starts being the nice, caring and responsible Jesus in the cannonized texts.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!


Correction its not me being worshipped. Anyway religion is way to involved in politics so much so it absolutely disgusts me. Removing the religious aspect would make everything so much easier. Muslims call non muslims infedels too btw! I've even been called one myself!

Ten things that are wrong with religion:

1) Far too many different religions, makes for a very busy afternoon if one is trying to pick out a God to worship.
2) No matter which one you pick, you're still going to somebody else's Hell.
3) Most religions seem to include provisions restricting how much sex, or what kind of sex, one is permitted to have. Don't mess with my jiggy-getting habits.
4) Many modern Gods appear to be recycled Zeus-types, which are easily confused with Santa Claus. Better packaging is recommended.
5) Goofy costumes. This tends to hold up across the board, from robes to crazy hats to pieces of jewelry shaped like torture devices.
6) Religions tend to pressure you to make a serious commitment, and to stop seeing other religions on the side. This can interfere with the adventurous life of a supernatural swinger.
7) Yahweh kicked my dog. True story.
8) Adherance to authority is totally uncool. For more on this, see "Why Christian rock groups do not rock."
9) The moment one embraces supernatural beliefs, one loses any ground to stand on when making fun of alien abductees.
10) Religion told me he thinks you look like a dork.

There is nothing wrong with religion: If you are in charge, then religion is an easy way to control your subjects. If you are one of the subjects, then you get the benefit of not having to think at all, let alone for yourself

You cant have religion without theology.

But you can have religion with infinite competing theologies. That's basically the same as no theology.

What is with this whole 'Jesus is a jew' thing HE WAS but he started preching a diffrent message, one diffrent from a jewish one. He got followers people who saw him do great things he cant be christian because he himself is the very meaning of Christian (hence Jesus CHRIST) a follower of Christianity if a follower in Christ NEW message and not the old jewissh teachings.

Saying he is a Jew means nothing anyway at that time Jew wasnt only a religion but a culture&Race Jesus was Jewish by heritage not by religious thought.

Jesus was one of many Jewish mystics preaching similar messages, at the time. The Jewish mystics of the time were very similar to the other mystery cults, of the time.

You're thinking of the Gospel of Thomas, otherwise known as the Infancy Gospel.

It's a fairly interesting read because in that version, Jesus actually starts out as an evil brat who lies, cheats, kills and uses his powers for his own selfish reasons, until he mellows out and starts being the nice, caring and responsible Jesus in the cannonized texts.

Well if you are going to start looking at gospels outside of the canon there all sorts of interesting things in the gnostic gospels.

Ten things that are wrong with religion:

1) Far too many different religions, makes for a very busy afternoon if one is trying to pick out a God to worship.
2) No matter which one you pick, you're still going to somebody else's Hell.
3) Most religions seem to include provisions restricting how much sex, or what kind of sex, one is permitted to have. Don't mess with my jiggy-getting habits.
4) Many modern Gods appear to be recycled Zeus-types, which are easily confused with Santa Claus. Better packaging is recommended.
5) Goofy costumes. This tends to hold up across the board, from robes to crazy hats to pieces of jewelry shaped like torture devices.
6) Religions tend to pressure you to make a serious commitment, and to stop seeing other religions on the side. This can interfere with the adventurous life of a supernatural swinger.
7) Yahweh kicked my dog. True story.
8) Adherance to authority is totally uncool. For more on this, see "Why Christian rock groups do not rock."
9) The moment one embraces supernatural beliefs, one loses any ground to stand on when making fun of alien abductees.
10) Religion told me he thinks you look like a dork.
That pretty much sums it up.

PS: You rock. :D

Well if you are going to start looking at gospels outside of the canon there all sorts of interesting things in the gnostic gospels.

The gnostic texts where all written by 200 AD, while there is no evidence that ANY of the cannonized books where written before about 250 AD. It wasn't that they where written by the students of the disciples as has been claimed on this thread, they where written by the students of the students students of the students of the original disciples. The simple truth is that the gnostic texts are WAY more accurate, not only because they where written earlier but that they where lost for more than 1000 years until the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, which means that they where never altered by the church or various governments.

The gnostic texts where all written by 200 AD, while there is no evidence that ANY of the cannonized books where written before about 250 AD. It wasn't that they where written by the students of the disciples as has been claimed on this thread, they where written by the students of the students students of the students of the original disciples. The simple truth is that the gnostic texts are WAY more accurate, not only because they where written earlier but that they where lost for more than 1000 years until the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, which means that they where never altered by the church or various governments.

Still using two-thousand year old documents as a guide to modern life is like using a manual from a steam engine to work on an airliner.

Ten things that are wrong with religion:

1) Far too many different religions, makes for a very busy afternoon if one is trying to pick out a God to worship.
2) No matter which one you pick, you're still going to somebody else's Hell.
3) Most religions seem to include provisions restricting how much sex, or what kind of sex, one is permitted to have. Don't mess with my jiggy-getting habits.
4) Many modern Gods appear to be recycled Zeus-types, which are easily confused with Santa Claus. Better packaging is recommended.
5) Goofy costumes. This tends to hold up across the board, from robes to crazy hats to pieces of jewelry shaped like torture devices.
6) Religions tend to pressure you to make a serious commitment, and to stop seeing other religions on the side. This can interfere with the adventurous life of a supernatural swinger.
7) Yahweh kicked my dog. True story.
8) Adherance to authority is totally uncool. For more on this, see "Why Christian rock groups do not rock."
9) The moment one embraces supernatural beliefs, one loses any ground to stand on when making fun of alien abductees.
10) Religion told me he thinks you look like a dork.

Thank you Bottle :D thank you very much!

The gnostic texts where all written by 200 AD, while there is no evidence that ANY of the cannonized books where written before about 250 AD. It wasn't that they where written by the students of the disciples as has been claimed on this thread, they where written by the students of the students students of the students of the original disciples. The simple truth is that the gnostic texts are WAY more accurate, not only because they where written earlier but that they where lost for more than 1000 years until the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, which means that they where never altered by the church or various governments.

Source?

Source?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

That doesn't support ANYTHING you claimed. Where does it say when they were written and when the canonical gospels were written?

That doesn't support ANYTHING you claimed. Where does it say when they were written and when the canonical gospels were written?

I think you have lost track of who claimed what :P If I were you I would recommend reading the related articles in the series on wikipedia.

I do not have an immediete answer to your questions, I merely provided you with the best link I know to find the answer.

I think you have lost track of who claimed what :P If I were you I would recommend reading the related articles in the series on wikipedia.

I do not have an immediete answer to your questions, I merely provided you with the best link I know to find the answer.

You're right. I didn't look at your name. I just remembered both names were complicated. Anyway, that source isn't useful to his claims.

You're right. I didn't look at your name. I just remembered both names were complicated. Anyway, that source isn't useful to his claims.
Dagnabit did you want the answer to your questions or not? That source had all the links you needed! I followed an obvious one, it lead me here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#Date_of_Composition

Dagnabit did you want the answer to your questions or not? That source had all the links you needed! I followed an obvious one, it lead me here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas#Date_of_Composition

It answers my question, but doens't support his claim. I doubt he used as evidence a source that disputes his claims. What do you think?

There is currently much debate about when the text was composed, with scholars generally falling into two main camps: an early camp favoring a date in the 50s before the canonical gospels, and a late camp favoring a time after the last of the canonical gospels in the 100s. Among critical scholars, the early camp is dominant in North America, while the late camp is more popular in Europe (especially in the UK and Germany).

From your source.

I was giving him a chance to present evidence that SUPPORTS his case. This debunks it.

I have a better list its only 5 though:

1) Religious people do stupid things.
2) Religion blinds us from trying to find the truth.
3) Religion is usually based on faulty logic
4) Religion makes people do things that are against human nature
5) Religion causes wars. In fact most wars were caused by religion, and the worst wars were those caused by religion.

10 Things That Are Wrong With Religion
1. Religions are rules and dogma based on the belief in the existence of supernatural entities or powers for which there is no evidence of their existence.
2. see #1
3. see #1
4. see #1
5. see #1
6. see #1
7. see #1
8. see #1
9. see #1
10. see #1

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!
I am glad you are trying to show that religion is bad, but you are NOT doing a good job of it.

1) Yeah, but thats not an argument its just a fact,
2) That only applies to the abrahimic religions. hindus and buddists know that its all lies. So you cannot use that as an argument against the whole concept of religion.
3) umm... thats not a legitamate argument.
4) thats a simple fact. if you did mentin that people insist that theirs is right it would be legit argument. but it would suck if we had to be mormans.
5) well at least you have one legitamate argument in there.
6) um... thats the same thing as #5.
7) thats correct. too bad most of your arguments are WRONG.
8) This is not a legitamate argument as it only applies to christianity.
9) less and less.
10) even muslims??

It answers my question, but doens't support his claim. I doubt he used as evidence a source that disputes his claims. What do you think?

There is currently much debate about when the text was composed, with scholars generally falling into two main camps: an early camp favoring a date in the 50s before the canonical gospels, and a late camp favoring a time after the last of the canonical gospels in the 100s. Among critical scholars, the early camp is dominant in North America, while the late camp is more popular in Europe (especially in the UK and Germany).

From your source.

I was giving him a chance to present evidence that SUPPORTS his case. This debunks it.

I would say rather, it gives evidence supporting his claim (that the gnostic gospels predate the canonical gospels) as well as detailing the arguments of those that disagree.

It's easy to understand why there are scholars that disagree... which gospels are more "aunthentic" matters a great deal to many people.

Fortunatley, I don't need my religious texts to have a pedigree. If a text represent divine truth then I figure it's truth should be self evident.

I would say rather, it gives evidence supporting his claim (that the gnostic gospels predate the canonical gospels) as well as detailing the arguments of those that disagree.

It's easy to understand why there are scholars that disagree... which gospels are more "aunthentic" matters a great deal to many people.

Fortunatley, I don't need my religious texts to have a pedigree. If a text represent divine truth then I figure it's truth should be self evident.

Okay, he claimed that the canonical gospels were written much later than your source claims. It doesn't dispute that points, so the part is debunked by your source.

Also, your source claims if the gnostic gospels did predate the canonical gospels, they were both written earlier than the poster claimed. So basically it says he guessed and given that both beliefs are argued he might have gotten that part right.

"The gnostic texts where all written by 200 AD, while there is no evidence that ANY of the cannonized books where written before about 250 AD."

Okay, he claimed that the canonical gospels were written much later than your source claims. It doesn't dispute that points, so the part is debunked by your source.

Also, your source claims if the gnostic gospels did predate the canonical gospels, they were both written earlier than the poster claimed. So basically it says he guessed and given that both beliefs are argued he might have gotten that part right.

"The gnostic texts where all written by 200 AD, while there is no evidence that ANY of the cannonized books where written before about 250 AD."

It's a complicated issue, that's hotly disputed. He listed some extreme numbers, but he could still be right.

I love the gnostic gospels :) It's important to remind people what the various sources were for early christianity.

The infancy gospels seem like fan fiction to me.

It's a complicated issue, that's hotly disputed. He listed some extreme numbers, but he could still be right.

I love the gnostic gospels :) It's important to remind people what the various sources were for early christianity.

The infancy gospels seem like fan fiction to me.

Almost no source would agree with him on the age of the canonicals, and only a minority of sources place any of the gospels as that young.

Frankly, I wish religion would be more leniant twoard sex :fluffle:

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!

Since fundies and other christians are too stupid to know how to use a computer and this forum, I'm going to present their argument for them:

Everyone in the West [used to] know that only Christianity is true in the sense that is most reflective of God's nature, human nature, moral truths, the other religions are social constructs. Judaism has some truth but lacks full understanding of what God intended by Old Testament Scripture.

Many agree with you that people who are religious shouldn't actually apply their moral principles when it's time to vote. You can't legislate morality.

The Crusades were a defensive fight, pretty much under similar circumstances as today. Islam, being a religion invented by depraved military leader Mohammed to subdue the masses he conquered, was very violent and attacked Christians and Christian dominated lands for about 200 years before our Holy Father Pope Urban II called for a Crusade to protect Christian pilgrims and nations.

I'm surprised people haven't noticed that all the major conflicts in the world have Islamic people on one side against some other group. Connect the dots....

Frankly, I wish religion would be more leniant twoard sex :fluffle:

Many do Safavids. This is a major flaw in most religions is that they don't allow people to do what they want to. This is why they must be stopped by governments.

This is why I believe passionately in the right of abortion for everyone, also, we need Jon Tester in Montana, Bob Casey in Pennsylvania (he is pro-life, but that's only a ruse, he will vote with Dems on any important pro-choice issue), and Jim Webb in Virginia.

I have a better list its only 5 though:

1) Religious people do stupid things.
2) Religion blinds us from trying to find the truth.
3) Religion is usually based on faulty logic
4) Religion makes people do things that are against human nature
5) Religion causes wars. In fact most wars were caused by religion, and the worst wars were those caused by religion.


Swilatia, you are exactly right. Christians are so stupid and caused so many wars. They try to live "righteously" but we all know since the 1960's that you can't try to legislate morality. We need to look to mankind to help ourselves. A better world is possible through viewing things as social problems.

I hate religion because it tries to stop me from doing what I want to do. This is similar to how I deal with my parents, they are always trying to get me to do things I don't want to. But, in school, my teachers, the nurse and my counselor DO allow me to do what I want to, and they help me when I get into trouble.

For example, there was an accident, but the nurse had emergency contraception. I had asked my parents for contraception in the past, but they never allowed it, so look at the potential abortion my parents almost caused. :(

I'm glad the government overrides parents when they are stupid and allows everyone, including youth, to achieve free development. As soon as we get the Republicans out, the Democrats will start to provide so much things for free. In fact, I don't know why everyone doesn't vote for Democrats. Who doesn't want free things?

[QUOTE=Himleret]1.Each one says all the others are wrong.

I don't want to try to tackle all of the misconceptions in your list, but this one is especially incorrect. There is one religion that says each religion is "correct". The concept is called progressive revelation which means very simply that each religion has been revealed by God and was the intended Word of God for that Day. It is in a sense rather similar to school-- what is learned in the early school years is preparation for later years of education. Each religion, therefore come from God and they are linked by the common principles of the different religions. The Golden Rule that is found in all of the revealed religions is one small example of this concept. The religion is the Baha'i Faith and the World Center of the Baha'i is in Haifa, Israel

Its best summed up as this, "Religion is the opiate of the masses."

by the way who said that its gonna bug me all day.

Its best summed up as this, "Religion is the opiate of the masses."

by the way who said that its gonna bug me all day.

Marx. You know they have this new-fangled contraption called the internet. And just yesterday somebody came up with something called Google. You should try it out. It's AMAZING!!!

Its best summed up as this, "Religion is the opiate of the masses."

by the way who said that its gonna bug me all day.

I believe it's attributed to Karl Marx.

I thank Our Common Ancestor for the humanistic trinity of Marx, Freud and Darwin because it finally destroyed Christianity and "god(s)'s" oppressive moral codes, at least among intelligent people.

Anyone who is smart nowadays looks down on Christianity and loves life. Only stupid people think following outdated "morality" (which is different for each person, so it can't be legislated) in order to gain access to a better world after death.

1.Each one says all the others are wrong.
2.The bible and all its variations(Bible,Tora,etc...)are lying and we all know it.
3.God hates Hindus(Cow killing is common in the bible)
4.No one knows wich religion is right.(It would suck if you had to be Morman)
5.It screwes up everyones thinking.
6.It substituets good desisions with religios ones.
7.The members of each one push their beliefs onto others.
8. Every one knows that jesus wasn't a christian,so there is no need for that religion.(He was jewish dammit!)
9.It's waaaaaay to involved in the government.
10. EAch religoin calls the muslims infedels and murders when it was the christians who started the crusades.(IROOOONYYYYYY!!!)

*BONUS*
(FAKE)

11.Its not me being worshiped!
... No. Your points are lame. I can't even be fucked.

I believe it's attributed to Karl Marx.

I thank Our Common Ancestor for the humanistic trinity of Marx, Freud and Darwin because it finally destroyed Christianity and "god(s)'s" oppressive moral codes, at least among intelligent people.

Anyone who is smart nowadays looks down on Christianity and loves life. Only stupid people think following outdated "morality" (which is different for each person, so it can't be legislated) in order to gain access to a better world after death.
That's a rather cynical view. There are many religious movements out there that have remained dynamic and pertinent in today's society, and that's not just in Christianity, but in all major religions. They just tend not to make headlines because the ones that are hateful and murderous make way better stories.

1) They try to teach me something they have no actual physical proof of
2) They're are too many contradictions
3) You have to sing, in public - urgh
4) They're are too many choices - it's like Harrods on sale day
5) They slice away at my free will (metaphorically speaking)
6) They're too judgemental
7) EVERYONE is wrong at least once (although they claim to be correct above all else)
8) Their flyers really suck - they hand them out in the town centre 'join us, we can save you'... I don’t need saving thanks all the same
9) Bad things still happen to good people despite their blind faith
10) You don’t get a lollie pop for sitting still and being good through sermon... RIP OFF!

I believe it's attributed to Karl Marx.

I thank Our Common Ancestor for the humanistic trinity of Marx, Freud and Darwin because it finally destroyed Christianity and "god(s)'s" oppressive moral codes, at least among intelligent people.
Anyone who is smart nowadays looks down on Christianity and loves life. Only stupid people think following outdated "morality" (which is different for each person, so it can't be legislated) in order to gain access to a better world after death.
I hate to break it to you, but Freud is largely irrelevant now, with the exception of his concepts of defense mechanisms and the subconscious/unconscious. Darwin never destroyed Christianity, at least not the sensible kind. And Marx was just a moon-eyed moron. I'm sorry to tell you this, but communism is very impossible, and all but dead in most countries today. I can guarantee you that Christianity will long outlast communism.

Also, I know a number of intelligent people who are practicing Christians (Jews and Muslims and others, too, for that matter).

Also, if you knew anything about Christianity at all, you would know that going to heaven is not based on doing good things, it's based on faith in God. Also, you seem to imply that being Christian and loving life are mutually exclusive. However, I consider myself a Christian and I love life at the same time. Oh, and I'm also considered smart. Hmm, maybe you have some rethinking to do. Or maybe you just have some plain 'ol thinking to do.

Also, if you knew anything about Christianity at all, you would know that going to heaven is not based on doing good things, it's based on faith in God. Also, you seem to imply that being Christian and loving life are mutually exclusive. However, I consider myself a Christian and I love life at the same time. Oh, and I'm also considered smart. Hmm, maybe you have some rethinking to do. Or maybe you just have some plain 'ol thinking to do.
I disagree with that analysis. The gospels refer constantly to loving God, but I don't recall a single passage that requires faith or even belief in God. That may seem contradictory, but it's actually one of the key points in Shakespeare's "King Lear" (odd source, I know). Love is not about proclaiming your love for a person or God: it is about showing respect for that person by doing his or her wishes.

Consider this passage from John 15:
"10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."

Or this one from Romans 13:
"8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

Therefore, the moral atheist who never goes to church has more of a place in heaven because he has followed God's wishes and therefore shown his love than does the wicked man who goes to church and proclaims his love for God while never showing it through his treatment of other people.

I believe it's attributed to Karl Marx.

I thank Our Common Ancestor for the humanistic trinity of Marx, Freud and Darwin because it finally destroyed Christianity and "god(s)'s" oppressive moral codes, at least among intelligent people.

Anyone who is smart nowadays looks down on Christianity and loves life. Only stupid people think following outdated "morality" (which is different for each person, so it can't be legislated) in order to gain access to a better world after death.

I was going to present an argument against this, but your argument that I'm stupid if I do is sooooo compelling. I wouldn't want you to think I'm stupid for looking at the world as it is instead of a made-up fantasy where all Christians, and worse all religious people, are on the far religious right. Around 80% of US citizens identify themselves as religious. I guess 80% must be stupid. Only about 1.1 billion people in the world are not religious in any way. I guess all the rest must be stupid. Gosh, if only they could hear this major effort you call an argument, then I'm sure they'd all see the light and come around to the 'smart' side.

I'd be careful. I'm pretty sure that's trolling. In fact, I'm certain of it. Reported.
I dunno about that. Read that post over, but try pretending that he was saying that about racism instead of Christianity. I don't think it would get pinged for trolling.

I dunno about that. Read that post over, but try pretending that he was saying that about racism instead of Christianity. I don't think it would get pinged for trolling.

You cannot make an argument on this site that basically rests on if you disagree with me you're stupid. Sometimes people get away with it being part of their argument, but this case it was C&T entire argument. Mostly because he doesn't have a better one.

You and I know that there are arguments against the religious practices of some. They are ignorant of science and even their own documents. However, there are plenty of religious people that accept all evidence they have of the world AND believe in a deity of a kind or another. Many of them, most of them would never want to impose any rules for behavior that stem from that belief on others. See, now the existence of those individuals makes it really difficult for people to hate on Christians so it's a lot easier to make sweeping statements like he made.

His statements are similar to a disdain for racism. His statements are similar to racism, amazing generalization based on the actions of a few to paint a very large group. Don't let your particular view on this matter color whether or not this poster is being reasonable.