NationStates Jolt Archive

EU announces new Palestinian aid.
14 Jul 2006 14:14:42 GMT

BRUSSELS, July 14 (Reuters) - The European Union announced 50 million euros ($63.38 million) for the Palestinian territories on Friday, saying it strongly condemned escalating violence in the region.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm

my2cents: I was expecting that.. thumbs up.

Israel seems to be run by a bunch of crazy lunatics doing their best to piss off just about everyone. Over reaction muchly?

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

I wish my hand was big enough to give the European leaders one big bitch smack..across all of their faces.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

I wish my hand was big enough to give the European leaders one big bitch smack..across all of their faces.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
Palestine =/= Hamas. Even given that, Israel overreacted serverly and are acting like a bunch of children.

Palestine =/= Hamas. Even given that, Israel overreacted serverly and are acting like a bunch of children.
When the government is Hamas, then they do equal each other. Israel is doing what any nation that was invaded would do.

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

I wish my hand was big enough to give the European leaders one big bitch smack..across all of their faces.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
You realise that much of this aid may well not be given in wads of cash, but in crates of food etc?

When the government is Hamas, then they do equal each other. Israel is doing what any nation that was invaded would do.Could you show me the link between Hamas and the Lebanon situation please?

Could you show me the link between Hamas and the Lebanon situation please?

Hezbollah made a cross border raid, killing several Israeli soldiers, and abducting two.

When the government is Hamas, then they do equal each other. Israel is doing what any nation that was invaded would do.
The government is the political wing of Hamas, which doesn't exactly have full control over the military wing of Hamas.

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

Yeah, don't those Europeans know only the US is allowed to fund terrorists?

Yeah, don't those Europeans know only the US is allowed to fund terrorists?Only Washington(US) gets to say who is a terrorist..
and who is not..

also.. you stop being a terrorist.. the minute Washington says you are no longer a terrorist.

Hezbollah made a cross border raid, killing several Israeli soldiers, and abducting two.
Yes, that shows Hezbollah is anti-Israel. Doesn't show an actual connection between them and Hamas.

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

I wish my hand was big enough to give the European leaders one big bitch smack..across all of their faces.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
Oh fuck off.

The Israelis are the ones acting like terrorists, they only have one genuine supporter now, and that's sadly the US, which has veto power at the UN.

Attempting to stop people from launching rockets at you = terrorism.

There - I thought the retards should see for themself how asinine their statements are.

As far as the Israli action being an overreacton... If it were then wouldn't the soldier have been returned by now? Isn't overwhealming force pretty much the whole point of using force as a deterrent?

Oh fuck off.

The Israelis are the ones acting like terrorists, they only have one genuine supporter now, and that's sadly the US, which has veto power at the UN.
No I dont think I will, but I know how bad an opposing view must be to you.:rolleyes:

Actually, America, Australia, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Denmark and India (and maybe Greece and Japan) all took Israels side and blamed lebanon and its Hezbollah on the 'war'.

Attempting to stop people from launching rockets at you = terrorism.

There - I thought the retards should see for themself how asinine their statements are.

As far as the Israli action being an overreacton... If it were then wouldn't the soldier have been returned by now? Isn't overwhealming force pretty much the whole point of using force as a deterrent?
No. If anything, force to this extent tends to make negotiations and thus the safe return of the soldier even more unlikely. How many Israeli soldiers have died in this recent conflict? How many Israeli civilians have died? How many Arab soldiers and civilians have been killed? How is this better then negotiations?

Yeah, don't those Europeans know only the US is allowed to fund terrorists?
We fund terrorists that try to throw off oppressive Communist regimes in South America, and ones that tried to rebel against the soveit union...not ones that attack other countries by throwing their children (strapped with bombs) at civilians.

You realise that much of this aid may well not be given in wads of cash, but in crates of food etc?
I dont realise anything...however, if I see that it says that, thats another story.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
How?

Attempting to stop people from launching rockets at you = terrorism.
It's more : blowing up people's infrastructure, such as power stations and bridges, as well as bombarding areas with civilians in =/= terrorism?
There - I thought the retards should see for themself how asinine their statements are.
I feel the very same way.
As far as the Israli action being an overreacton... If it were then wouldn't the soldier have been returned by now? Isn't overwhealming force pretty much the whole point of using force as a deterrent?
Ah yes, because as everyone knows, artillery barrages might just hit the building he's in at just the right angle, and he'll be blasted back into Israel and will die a hero's death... or something...

As for the soldiers captured in Lebanon - they were invaders, and are being held as POWs... what's so wrong about that?

Palestine =/= Hamas. Even given that, Israel overreacted serverly and are acting like a bunch of children.
Yes Palestine does equal Hamas as Hamas is, in fact, in charge of Palestine.

Israel hasnt overreacted, they are negotiating with the only thing those arabs know and understand, superior force.

We fund terrorists that try to throw off oppressive Communist regimes in South America, and ones that tried to rebel against the soveit union...not ones that attack other countries by throwing their children (strapped with bombs) at civilians.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. HAHAHAHAHA. HAHAHA

Democratically elected socialist governments =/= Communist regimes.

How?
Because we're not supporting the US on yet another of its shitty little missions, and are as such "lame".

Sorry if you're offended by the use of "we" seeing as you're from the RoI and I'm from the UK, I was talking more about Europe as a whole.

Yes Palestine does equal Hamas as Hamas is, in fact, in charge of Palestine.

Israel hasnt overreacted, they are negotiating with the only thing those arabs know and understand, superior force.
Um. No. Even if one wishes to falsely not separate out the military and political wings of Hamas, which have been fairly separate organizations for some time, your statement is about as stupid as saying that the united states = the republican party, because the republican party is in charge of the united states.

How?
Because..instead of coming out and speaking against the wrong that Palestine and Lebanon are in, they are pussy footing around it saying that Israel has used to much force...nevermind the fact THAT THEY WERE ATTACKED ACROSS THEIR BORDERS...Its just retarded.

Hezbollah made a cross border raid, killing several Israeli soldiers, and abducting two.

That's....nice. Which has nothing to do with Hamas.

Um. No. Even if one wishes to falsely not separate out the military and political wings of Hamas, which have been fairly separate organizations for some time, your statement is about as stupid as saying that the united states = the republican party, because the republican party is in charge of the united states.
If the Republican party attacked Canda..then yes those actions would be on behalf of the United States of America.

If the Republican party attacked Canda..then yes those actions would be on behalf of the United States of America.
No, it would be the actions of the Republican party. They do not speak for the United States.

It's more : blowing up people's infrastructure, such as power stations and bridges, as well as bombarding areas with civilians in =/= terrorism?

No it doesn't. Blowing up infrastructure is war. People who die as a result are casualties of war.

Targeting civilians is terrorism.

As for the soldiers captured in Lebanon - they were invaders, and are being held as POWs... what's so wrong about that?

The soldiers were in Israel. Hezbollah crossed the border, killed 8, kidnapped 2, and returned to Lebanon.

How the hell do you invade someone from your own god damned country? That's like saying it's ok for Mexico to cross over the border and kidnap a Texas State Trooper.

No, it would be the actions of the Republican party. They do not speak for the United States.
Uh, they would if they attacked Canada across an international border.

We fund terrorists that try to throw off oppressive Communist regimes in South America
Why the hell do you support people like Pinochet just to get at communists?

What about all of the regimes that are utterly horrible you've helped over the years?

The Kmher Rouge is an excellent example. It didn't matter that anyone who could read died, that anyone who wore glasses died, that minorities died and that people were forced out of cities and into communal farms, which were surrounded by landmines so that nobody could escape, because they didn't like Vietnam, so that made it all fine and dandy!

This is also something of a contradiction - they were totalitarian communists, but they were also supported in the UN by the US - hmm, what a conundrum of a moral dilemma.

How's about telling your soldiers in Australia to launch a coup against the government if the Labour party won back in the 80's?
and ones that tried to rebel against the soveit union...not ones that attack other countries by throwing their children (strapped with bombs) at civilians.
That is basically what the Muhad'juhadeen were doing...

Uh, they would if they attacked Canada across an international border.
They would if they ordered the United States army to attack across an international border. If individuals who happened to be members of the Republican party and under orders thereof attacked across the border, they would be terrorists, as would the republican party, but no one in their right minds would say that the United States must be invaded.

No it doesn't. Blowing up infrastructure is war. People who die as a result are casualties of war.

Targeting civilians is terrorism.
OK, let's call the actions of Hezbollah and HAMAS actions of war.

This instantly removes all guilt from them, then, no?

The soldiers were in Israel. Hezbollah crossed the border, killed 8, kidnapped 2, and returned to Lebanon.

How the hell do you invade someone from your own god damned country? That's like saying it's ok for Mexico to cross over the border and kidnap a Texas State Trooper.
I had heard that the Israelis were "stopping Hezbollah launching rockets". I assumed this meant that they were in Lebanon.

Even if they weren't, they're fair game due to the fact that they're attacking your state.

They would if they ordered the United States army to attack across an international border. If individuals who happened to be members of the Republican party and under orders thereof attacked across the border, they would be terrorists, as would the republican party, but no one in their right minds would say that the United States must be invaded.

If those who decided to attack Canada were condemned by the government, and the government gave full aid to Canada in tracking them down and making sure if they were brought to justice? No, they should not be.

If however the government recognized this private army, ceeded them territory, allowed them to continue operations without inhibition, and George W. Bush got up and said in public "ya know, we all think you guys are doing a great job!"?

Damn right they should.

Sorry if you're offended by the use of "we" seeing as you're from the RoI and I'm from the UK, I was talking more about Europe as a whole.

*glances around*

I do believe we're both in Europe. :p

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
America is lame right now because Hugo Chavez is in charge of part of it.

*glances around*

I do believe we're both in Europe. :p
That's astonishingly true, but you're not Francis Street, who I was talking to...

OK, let's call the actions of Hezbollah and HAMAS actions of war.

This instantly removes all guilt from them, then, no?

Nooooo....because they were attacking civilians. That changes it from legitimate military operation to terrorism.

Again, lemme spell it out for you:

Attacking legitimate strategic areas - legitimate act of war

Intentionally attacking civilians - terrorism



Even if they weren't, they're fair game due to the fact that they're attacking your state.

Um, the occupation ended in 2000. Israel wasn't doing shit.

If however the government recognized this private army, ceeded them territory, allowed them to continue operations without inhibition, and George W. Bush got up and said in public "ya know, we all think you guys are doing a great job!"?

Damn right they should.
That reminds me very much of the intro to Fallout (the first one).

"Our determined boys keep the peace in Canada"

*shoots tied up man in the head, laughs a bit, and waves at the camera*

If those who decided to attack Canada were condemned by the government, and the government gave full aid to Canada in tracking them down and making sure if they were brought to justice? No, they should not be.

If however the government recognized this private army, ceeded them territory, allowed them to continue operations without inhibition, and George W. Bush got up and said in public "ya know, we all think you guys are doing a great job!"?

Damn right they should.
Which by and large isn't being done. And another half of the government, the opposition, is decrying the attacks and pleaing for peace.

That's astonishingly true, but you're not Francis Street, who I was talking to...
Okay......

Israel hasnt overreacted, they are negotiating with the only thing those arabs know and understand, superior force.
That's worked really well for 60 years, hasn't it. :rolleyes:

Sorry if you're offended by the use of "we" seeing as you're from the RoI and I'm from the UK, I was talking more about Europe as a whole.
We're all in the EU.

Because..instead of coming out and speaking against the wrong that Palestine and Lebanon are in, they are pussy footing around it saying that Israel has used to much force...nevermind the fact THAT THEY WERE ATTACKED ACROSS THEIR BORDERS...Its just retarded.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a pussy. Both European and American governments have urged Israel to use restraint, and both have called on Hamas and Hezbollah to release prisoners.

No, it would be the actions of the Republican party. They do not speak for the United States.
The Republicans would presumably be using the US military to do this wouldn't they? Or perhaps the non-existent paramilitary wing of the party?

Which by and large isn't being done. And another half of the government, the opposition, is decrying the attacks and pleaing for peace.

Who denounced the kidnapping of the soliders? Who condemned Hezbollah for launching the missles in the first place?

Nobody.

It's all well and good to scream about it AFTER your getting bombed. The true test of your motivation is what you do BEFORE that.

Nooooo....because they were attacking civilians. That changes it from legitimate military operation to terrorism.

Again, lemme spell it out for you:

Attacking legitimate strategic areas - legitimate act of war

Intentionally attacking civilians - terrorism
Yeah, I agree fully.

Palestinians blow themselves up in a nightclub, something used by Israelis and tourists, which brings the Israeli government money to buy weapons with - that's OK.

Israelis bomb Beirut's suburbs, basically to cause panic without Hezbollah operating there - Terrorism pure and simple.
Um, the occupation ended in 2000. Israel wasn't doing shit.
From what I saw on Euronews, it was said that the Israelis were firing at Lebanese positions "where rockets were being lauched".

So the Lebanese basically counter-attacked.

Who denounced the kidnapping of the soliders? Who condemned Hezbollah for launching the missles in the first place?

Nobody.

It's all well and good to scream about it AFTER your getting bombed. The true test of your motivation is what you do BEFORE that.
Abbas released a statement right after the kidnappings happened rejecting the violence of Hamas. He's been rejecting it for quite a long time (and, may I remind you, he has the support of a sizable chunk of the Palestinian Parliament and a majority of the people)

No it doesn't. Blowing up infrastructure is war. People who die as a result are casualties of war.

Targeting civilians is terrorism.

So would targeting a major economic centre that created finances that were in part used to fund solders etc "infrastructure"?

I dont realise anything...however, if I see that it says that, thats another story.
That's the strategy they've been adopting recently. Effectively bypass Hamas and give the aid direct.

No. If anything, force to this extent tends to make negotiations and thus the safe return of the soldier even more unlikely. How many Israeli soldiers have died in this recent conflict? How many Israeli civilians have died? How many Arab soldiers and civilians have been killed? How is this better then negotiations?

Umm, because they have negotiated before and all it did was reinforce that kidnappings and rockets really work so lets do it some more? Was that a trick question?

Well done, OD.

You didn't give us an actual link (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm) to the story. You're trying to make people believe that the EU is taking your side, and sadly some people believed you.

The EU has been looking for ways of allocating money to the territories for some time, trying to figure out ways to help Palestinian civilians while cutting Hamas out of the loop. More details here (http://www.eubusiness.com/Finance/060707132844.sooqgx7b) for example. These funds are in no shape or form intended to go to Hamas or Hezbollah, they're funds for the displaced and those cut off from vital services, to be distributed by UN people.

Secondly, yes, the EU has condemned the violence. From all sides. Virtually everyone puts the blame for starting it squarely on Hamas and Hezbollah, even if many (including me) think that Israel's current reaction in Lebanon is taking things several levels too far.

So please people, if you see a story like this, posted by OceanDrive - check first. Don't take his word for it.

Yeah, I agree fully.

Palestinians blow themselves up in a nightclub, something used by Israelis and tourists, which brings the Israeli government money to buy weapons with - that's OK.

Wow you're thick. Bombing a nightclub has the purpose of killing civilians. That's the purpose. The goal is to kill civilians. That is terrorism

Israelis bomb Beirut's suburbs, basically to cause panic without Hezbollah operating there - Terrorism pure and simple.

Please find me a source demonstrating Israel attacked an area that did not have strategic value.

From what I saw on Euronews, it was said that the Israelis were firing at Lebanese positions "where rockets were being lauched".

into civilian areas, thus an act of terrorism.

So the Lebanese basically counter-attacked.

And in doing so, committed an act of war. And when you commit acts of war...well...you're basically asking for shit to get blown up, no?

Let me ask you a quesiton, and answer it straight out, do you believe that bombing a nightclub full of civilians to be more valid an act then surgical strikes against an airport?

Well done, OD.

You didn't give us an actual link (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm) to the story. You're trying to make people believe that ...Read my OP.. Its 100% truth.. I did not invent anything.

BTW thank you for the link.

age old blood arguement that dates back to the crusades.. People will always see things from different points of view.

Though it makes me wonder what Saladine would have done if he'd a lived 200 more years.

Well done, OD.thank you :D

They would if they ordered the United States army to attack across an international border. If individuals who happened to be members of the Republican party and under orders thereof attacked across the border, they would be terrorists, as would the republican party, but no one in their right minds would say that the United States must be invaded.


Oh really? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=491723)

OK, let's call the actions of Hezbollah and HAMAS actions of war.

This instantly removes all guilt from them, then, no?


I had heard that the Israelis were "stopping Hezbollah launching rockets". I assumed this meant that they were in Lebanon.

Even if they weren't, they're fair game due to the fact that they're attacking your state.


Umm, the rockets aren't landing in Lebanon you twit.

Umm, the rockets aren't landing in Lebanon you twit.methinks he means: to stop the rockes.. the IDF needs to go to Lebanon..

Insulting him is not helping your case..
and if on top of that you are wrong.. you are making a fool of yourself.

That's worked really well for 60 years, hasn't it. :rolleyes:
Israel is still there, so apparently yes - it has.


Not everyone who disagrees with you is a pussy.
But if they were, then wouldn't everyone who is in agreement therefore be a dick? Sorry - tangent. I can't help myself sometimes.
Both European and American governments have urged Israel to use restraint, and both have called on Hamas and Hezbollah to release prisoners.
Were you to have a family member kidnapped by your neighbor and the police refused to help how restrained would you be?

The Republicans would presumably be using the US military to do this wouldn't they? Or perhaps the non-existent paramilitary wing of the party?
You don't think there are right-wing militants in the US? Never heard of Timothy McVeigh?

he means that: to stop the rockes.. the IDF needs to go to Lebanon..

Insulting him is not helpig your case.. specially if you are wrong..


Maybe I'm wrong - but wouldn't it be sorta stupid to try to stop someone from shooting you by targeting the bullet holes around you?

Israel is still there, so apparently yes - it has.Israel is still here because.. its artificially being kept afloat by the US gov (13.7 millions a day.)

Israel is still there, so apparently yes - it has.
Israel continues to exist, yes, but in a constant state of war. They need a policy that begets peace.

Were you to have a family member kidnapped by your neighbor and the police refused to help how restrained would you be?
As restrained as necessary to get the job done. I would not assume that going in with all guns blazing would be the best idea. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Governments should not act on mere emotion. Right-wingers seem to base most of their policy preferences on anger and other shoddy grounds.

Who are the police in this analogy?

You don't think there are right-wing militants in the US? Never heard of Timothy McVeigh?
I've never heard of his association with the Republicans!

Umm, because they have negotiated before and all it did was reinforce that kidnappings and rockets really work so lets do it some more? Was that a trick question?
Is that why South Lebanon and Israel have been in a state of unsteady ceasefire rather then open war for the past decade or so?

Maybe I'm wrong - but wouldn't it be sorta stupid to ...I am going to tell what is stupid.

Creating a Jewish state in the Arablands.. in the middle of Muslims nations.. That is Fucking Stupid.

I am going to tell what is stupid.

Creating a Jewish state in the Arablands.. in the middle of Muslims nations.. That is Fucking Stupid.

Actually, it would be fine if the arabs were civilized enough to tolerate a small nation on resource dry land.

But, alas, they are savages and cant deal with that.

I am going to tell what is stupid.

Creating a Jewish state in the Arablands.. in the middle of Muslims nations.. That is Fucking Stupid.
Be that as it may, cursing the past endlessly is also fucking stupid.

Nooooo....because they were attacking civilians. That changes it from legitimate military operation to terrorism.


civilains in tanks with military uniforms on?

Actually, it would be fine if the arabs were civilized enough to tolerate a small nation on resource dry land.

But, alas, they are savages and cant deal with that.
Firstly, Israel isn't all that small. And secondly, does that mean you'd be fine with the Arab countries creating a small nation on resource dry land in the midwest of the USA for example.

Though it makes me wonder what Saladine would have done if he'd a lived 200 more years.

Probably break a hip.

Be that as it may, cursing the past endlessly is also fucking stupid.I am talking about the Past, Present, and Future.

I want fair, I want peace, no more endless bombs and destruction..

The UN created Israel in the wrong place? correct the Mistake.

Firstly, Israel isn't all that small. And secondly, does that mean you'd be fine with the Arab countries creating a small nation on resource dry land in the midwest of the USA for example.
Two things.

1. What claim do the arabs have to a small amount of land in the midwest...even a biblical one...any at all.

2. Israel IS SMALL...even more so in relation the how big the muslim world is.

3. Does the U.N approve of this arab state in the midwest?

I am talking about the Past, Present, and Future.

I want peace.

the UN created Israel in the wrong place? correct the Mistake.

Oh I'd love to here this....how would 'they' "correct" the "mistake"?

looks like Europe is next.

Israel will kick your pansy french loving asses:D

looks like Europe is next.

Israel will kick your pansy french loving asses:D
Please, this thread needs less moronic statements like that. Thank you.

What claim do the arabs have to ...
..even a biblical one... ...maybe you beleive that: religeous writtings give your people some preferential rigths.. or deeds to Land property.

but I do not accept your religeous writtings as a deed of property for that land.. or any land whatsoever.

Israel is still here because.. its artificially being kept afloat by the US gov (13.7 millions a day.)


Wow, that is an impressive number - care to back it up?

Wow, that is an impressive number - care to back it up?I did yesterday.. and shal do it again.. in some 40 minutes if you can wait.
going AFK.

If only Black Sudanese had the ability to respond to Jihad lunacy the way Israel does.

I am going to tell what is stupid.

Creating a Jewish state in the Arablands.. in the middle of Muslims nations.. That is Fucking Stupid.


Ahhh, now your true colors are showing. You are both a bigot and ignorant of the factual history of Israel. Thanks for making it clear now before I wasted any more time with you.

I did yesterday.. and shal do it again.. in some 40 minutes if you can wait.
going AFK.

Whatever. Probably getting it from kkk dot com.

Is that why South Lebanon and Israel have been in a state of unsteady ceasefire rather then open war for the past decade or so?


And do you know what caused the last spat of hostility?...

hint hint - history repeats itself...

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
Maybe Israel should stop bombing nation infrastructure in response to terrorist attacks and namely kidnapping of ISraeli soldiers. They react stronger to attacks on the military than they do to attacks on civilians.

Two things.

1. What claim do the arabs have to a small amount of land in the midwest...even a biblical one...any at all.

Not a claim that the USA approves of.



3. Does the U.N approve of this arab state in the midwest?
Assume yes. Basically I'm questioning whether the USA, if faced with the same situation as the arabs would act differently. Say if the American Indians demanded all their historical land back. Would the USA just give it to them without a fight?

Israel continues to exist, yes, but in a constant state of war. They need a policy that begets peace.

Really? THEY do? It would seem their neighbors are more in need of it considering they attacked first.

[/QUOTE]

Assume yes. Basically I'm questioning whether the USA, if faced with the same situation as the arabs would act differently. Say if the American Indians demanded all their historical land back. Would the USA just give it to them without a fight?

Fuck no. And neither would Canada, Australia, Zuid Afrikaa, New Zealand...ect

Maybe Israel should stop bombing nation infrastructure in response to terrorist attacks and namely kidnapping of ISraeli soldiers. They react stronger to attacks on the military than they do to attacks on civilians.

Maybe your beloved arabs should stop acting like savages and fucking keep to themselves, thus preventing any retaliation from Israel, savy?

If Israeli Jews were Muslims, I doubt this would be a huge issue. Instead, it might be a localised conflict between Palestinian muslims and Israeli muslims that would receive about as much attention as Lendu and Hemba militants fighting each other in Ituri province, DRCongo (that is to say, next to none). This conflict is religious. So is the problem really a dispute over land, or is this another manifestation of Islamic intolerance? "Land disputes" between non-muslims and muslims are suspiciously common in this world, in countries as distinct from Israel as Thailand, Sudan and India.

Fuck no. And neither would Canada, Australia, Zuid Afrikaa, New Zealand...ect

Why do you have to drag South Africa into this?
Despite attempts by people to draw parallel between South Africa and Israel there are some major differences.

(1) There have always been Jews in Israel. There wasn't a single European in South Africa until the 16th century.

(2) Palestinians want a seperate state. Indigenous South Africans wanted to live in the same state as the people who had stolen their land.

(3) Arab Israelis have the same rights as other Israelies. Non-White South Africans had no rights at all.

Targeting civilians is terrorism.


Thank god US only kills civilian by "accident". Damn smart bomb and junkie pilots.. :P

Why do you have to drag South Africa into this?
Despite attempts by people to draw parallel between South Africa and Israel there are some major differences.

(1) There have always been Jews in Israel. There wasn't a single European in South Africa until the 16th century.

(2) Palestinians want a seperate state. Indigenous South Africans wanted to live in the same state as the people who had stolen their land.

(3) Arab Israelis have the same rights as other Israelies. Non-White South Africans had no rights at all.

I dont know why you are telling me this, I'm pretty sure were on the same side. :p I was just using South Africa, along with other nations that started out as imperial colonies, as an example....You totally misunderstood me.:p :)

I dont know why you are telling me this, I'm pretty sure were on the same side. :p I was just using South Africa, along with other nations that started out as imperial colonies, as an example....You totally misunderstood me.:p :)
Then again, you think Nelson Mandela is a terrorist. ;)

Then again, you think Nelson Mandela is a terrorist. ;)

Well, literally, he was, yes.

Actually, it would be fine if the arabs were civilized enough to tolerate a small nation on resource dry land.

But, alas, they are savages and cant deal with that.


Fuck no. And neither would Canada, Australia, Zuid Afrikaa, New Zealand...ect
So we're all savages together:)

Well, literally, he was, yes.
Well then, given the chances terrorist/savages as you call them, can end up being peaceful and progressive leaders. ;)

Well, literally, he was, yes.

Do you deny his cause was just?

EU announces new Palestinian aid.
14 Jul 2006 14:14:42 GMT

BRUSSELS, July 14 (Reuters) - The European Union announced 50 million euros ($63.38 million) for the Palestinian territories on Friday, saying it strongly condemned escalating violence in the region.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm

my2cents: I was expecting that.. thumbs up.


The EU giving terrorists money and turning on the democratic nation? Why am I not surprised? Why am I also not surprised the EU is the only ones aiding these people? Seriously, who else has given them money? I haven't seen anybody.

So we're all savages together:)
No. America doesnt send rocket fire over the borders nor does it abduct Canadians.

Canada
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said “Israel has the right to defend itself,” as well as “I think Israel's response under the circumstances has been measured.” Regarding resolution to the conflict he has stated “It's essential that Hezbollah and Hamas release their Israeli prisoners and any countries in that area that have influence on these organizations should encourage an end to violence and recognize and encourage the recognition of Israel's right to exist.” [42]

Ahh, I love your Prime Minister.:)

The EU giving terrorists money and turning on the democratic nation? Why am I not surprised? Why am I also not surprised the EU is the only ones aiding these people? Seriously, who else has given them money? I haven't seen anybody.

Uhh, you do know that Palestine is a democracy, don't you?

No. America doesnt send rocket fire over the borders nor does it abduct Canadians.



That you know about......;)

No. America doesnt send rocket fire over the borders nor does it abduct Canadians.
My point was that the likes of the USA and western countries would react in the same way if faced with similar circumstances. And you appeared to agree with me.

Well then, given the chances terrorist/savages as you call them, can end up being peaceful and progressive leaders. ;)
No...Hamas and Hezbollah shouldnt even be given another day to see what they can turn in to.

They should be destroyed, now.

Uhh, you do know that Palestine is a democracy, don't you?


So is Israel. EU stabbed them both in the back.

No...Hamas and Hezbollah shouldnt even be given another day to see what they can turn in to.

They should be destroyed, now.


How do you plan on doing that?

The EU giving terrorists money and turning on the democratic nation? Why am I not surprised? Why am I also not surprised the EU is the only ones aiding these people? Seriously, who else has given them money? I haven't seen anybody.
That they are giving aid to Palestine does not necessarily equate to aiding Hamas, recently they've pursued a policy of bypassing Hamas and given aid directly to the Palestinian public in need of it.

So is Israel. EU stabbed them both in the back.


Israel is punishing Palestine for electing the wrong people. I'd say that any EU-Israel backstab is justified.

No...Hamas and Hezbollah shouldnt even be given another day to see what they can turn in to.

They should be destroyed, now.
My my. If only you were around in South Africa all those years ago, you could have stopped Mandela dead in his tracks. That dirty savage!

That they are giving aid to Palestine does not necessarily equate to aiding Hamas, recently they've pursued a policy of bypassing Hamas and given aid directly to the Palestinian public in need of it.


It is hard to do just that, Hamas has power and support in the region. The majority will get into the hands of the terror group. I don't object to helping people, but not in any way that would aid their oppressers.

My point was that the likes of the USA and western countries would react in the same way if faced with similar circumstances. And you appeared to agree with me.
Thats just a dumb statement, what reason would there be to make an arab state in the midwest...even a religious one.:confused:

Canuck, why did you delete your post and run?:p

Do you deny his cause was just?
Meh...

The country was better off back then, stronge economy, good country, safe, rich.

Now, its fallen apart, theres soo much corruption, and it has like the highest murder and AIDS rates in the world and it basically just blows.

So meh.

Israel is punishing Palestine for electing the wrong people. I'd say that any EU-Israel backstab is justified.


Israel is doing this because their men were taken and they have had enough of being attacked. This whole mess could have been stopped if the terrorists never took the men in the first place or just returned them. Come on, The EU states that Hamas is a terror group! Why support them?


http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00640066.pdf

Canuck, why did you delete your post and run?:p

Are you not man enough to admit you were wrong? Or is it the shock of knowing that your country supports Israel in this 'war'?:p

Israel is doing this because their men were taken and they have had enough of being attacked. This whole mess could have been stopped if the terrorists never took the men in the first place or just returned them. Come on, The EU states that Hamas is a terror group! Why support them?


http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00640066.pdf

Wrong. The EU recognises the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organisation, but seperates it from the political wing. As it does for the IRA and Sinn Fein, and ETA and Herri Batasuna.

Israel is doing this because their men were taken and they have had enough of being attacked. This whole mess could have been stopped if the terrorists never took the men in the first place or just returned them. Come on, The EU states that Hamas is a terror group! Why support them?


http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2005/l_340/l_34020051223en00640066.pdf

They are a democratically elected government. No point in punishing the people of Palestine now.

Thats just a dumb statement, what reason would there be to make an arab state in the midwest...even a religious one.:confused:
It's called working hypothetically. Use the example of a Native Indian state if you prefer. Would the USA just hand over the land smiling and nodding?

It is hard to do just that, Hamas has power and support in the region. The majority will get into the hands of the terror group. I don't object to helping people, but not in any way that would aid their oppressers.
It's possible they intend to do it via goods instead of wads of cash.

It's called working hypothetically. Use the example of a Native Indian state if you prefer. Would the USA just hand over the land smiling and nodding?
Fuck no, and Israel shouldnt either.

Fuck no, and Israel shouldnt either.
In this analogy, the USA is representing the Arabs. Israel is the Native Americans:)

In this analogy, the USA is representing the Arabs. Israel is the Native Americans:)
Ok..lets go through with this.

The U.N. gives the arabs the mid western land...and America the rest of America.

Everythings fine...then the arab mid west attacks America, loses, and then complains.

Do you see any problem with that?

They are a democratically elected government. No point in punishing the people of Palestine now.



So were the Nazis.

Ok..lets go through with this.

The U.N. gives the arabs the mid western land...and America the rest of America.

Everythings fine...then the arab mid west attacks America, loses, and then complains.

Do you see any problem with that?
Yes, since I'm slightly confused which part of history you're referring to, given that the arabs (or whoever is getting the mid-west land) are representing the Israelis.

To cut through it all, how do you think the USA/UK/etc would act if faced with part of their land being given away by the UN?

Ok..lets go through with this.

The U.N. gives the arabs the mid western land...and America the rest of America.

Everythings fine...

I think your scenario falls apart right here.

So were the Nazis.

Godwin!

They are a democratically elected government. No point in punishing the people of Palestine now.

All the more reason to punish the people of Palestine.

All the more reason to punish the people of Palestine.



Just because they are elected doesn't make it right.

Just because they are elected doesn't make it right.

Wait, I'm confused. Are you arguing for or against me?

Wait, I'm confused. Are you arguing for or against me?


For.

They are a democratically elected government. No point in punishing the people of Palestine now.

So was Hitler, your point?

We should excuse warmongering just because the warmongerers were elected?

So was Hitler, your point?

We should excuse warmongering just because the warmongerers were elected?

I could say the same about israel.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6C062C97-F8D0-42B9-89A1-1C4D6963D512.htm
(http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6C062C97-F8D0-42B9-89A1-1C4D6963D512.htm)

the things western media dont let you see...

Canuck, why did you delete your post and run?:p
Not really that important, even though your comment wasn't totally accurate, I had bigger fish to fry elsewhere. :D

So was Hitler, your point?

We should excuse warmongering just because the warmongerers were elected?


See how my comment spread? LOL!

I could say the same about israel.

Query...who launched the rocket into whose borders? Who kidnapped whose soldiers?

Oh...that's right...

The problem is that everyone is going by labels. Hamas is officially a terrorist group, IDF is officially not. In reality, the IDF is just as bad if not worse than Hamas. With their superior funding and backing they have been capable of much more than hamas. So far, since the IDF invasion of lebanon and Palestine 17 palestinian/hezbollah militants have died, 7 Isreali troops have died, and 114 civilians have died. Way to go Israel.
So objectively you have two scumbags in power of two shit-hole places. One scumbag is reversing upon his traditional position of the ultimate destruction of the other scumbag (and facing a lot of criticism from members of his scumbag group for it) and pushing for negotiations. The other scumbag refuses to recognise the first scumbag as legitimate for negotiating with.

You catch my drift? Both Hamas and Israel are scumbags. However, Hamas was acting unusually responsibly, and Israel was being an immature and warmongering f*ckstick of a country.

Let me remind you all that collective punishment is a war crime under the geneva convention. So far Israel, among other things, has blown up the only power supply for the gaza strip and Beirut international airport. Also, they have since the election of Hamas consistently denied access of humanitarian aid to Palestinians in the form of blockades. So, thanks to Israel, the Palestinians have no power of food, and the people of Lebanon are trapped in an uncalled-for invasion. Right now, there are 25,000 Australians stuck in Lebanon whilst the IDF is decimating it. WTF?! Lebanon didn't even do anything wrong. Israel has just been waiting for even the shittiest pretext for war that they can find. I say that we should abandon Israel and their shitty warmongering ways.

Good. I’m glad to see that at least someone supports the Arabs in their struggle against Zionist Israel.

Query...who launched the rocket into whose borders? Who kidnapped whose soldiers?

Oh...that's right...
Firstly, Israel has no high ground on the kidnapping and holding prisoner issue. If you remember, the demands for the soldiers' release was to release the thousands of women and children under 16 years old in Israeli war prisons. Secondly, the rockets were a pathetic counter-attack after Israel already began stepping up it's raids on Gaza. Besides, Lebanon had absolutely nothing to to with any of this. Several years ago, an Australian terrorist was found in Afghanistan and taken to Guantanamo bay. Did the US then invade Australia? Israwl was just waiting for a pretext, no matter how flimsy.

Good. I’m glad to see that at least someone supports the Arabs in their struggle against Zionist Israel.


Its alway a good thing when people support a group that wants to wipe out an entire nation because of their religion. Bravo, Bravo. :rolleyes:

Good. I’m glad to see that at least someone supports the Arabs in their struggle against Zionist Israel.
You'd be glad to hear that all of the Australian media is dead against Israel and it's blatant warmongering and killing spree.

Israel is punishing Palestine for electing the wrong people. I'd say that any EU-Israel backstab is justified.
THERE WAS NO FUCKING BACKSTAB, PEOPLE! OD PUT A SPIN ON THE STORY THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE!

Its alway a good thing when people support a group that wants to wipe out an entire nation because of their religion. Bravo, Bravo. :rolleyes:
Israel or palestine? :rolleyes:

Its alway a good thing when people support a group that wants to wipe out an entire nation because of their religion. Bravo, Bravo. :rolleyes:
They don't want to wipe out Israel because of its religion. I doubt the average Palestinian gives two shits about what a Jew does on his own time in his own home. They want to fight against the oppressors that stole their homes and murder their children in the street, and they do it in the only way they are capable.

You'd be glad to hear that all of the Australian media is dead against Israel and it's blatant warmongering and killing spree.



Than thats Australia's shame. But I have seen that when people claim those things about their media, 95% of time they are over exaggerating the response.

We fund terrorists that try to throw off oppressive Communist regimes in South America, and ones that tried to rebel against the soveit union...not ones that attack other countries by throwing their children (strapped with bombs) at civilians.

Only to put brutal dictators in their place who don't mind mass executions to solidify their power. How are they better than the soviet union hmm? Just cause they aren't red, it's all good no matter how brutal or oppressive they are?

The US would have installed Genghis Khan if it would have ensured the red scare didn't go any further.

In the cold war, the US was no better than the Soviet Union, willing to oppress and destroy in it's self appointed fight against communism, never mind the shattered countries they left in their wake.

At every flashpoint between the Soviet Union and the United States, countries have been wrecked and ruined or starved of trade. Thinking that it's alright because it was your idealogy that should prevail only goes to show that you've forgotten common humanity and are willing to throw innocent human lives into the oven merely to sustain your way of life.

And that attitude sickens me. It shows me how monstrous people have become in their quest of "I'm right and you're wrong"

Than thats Australia's shame. But I have seen that when people claim those things about their media, 95% of time they are over exaggerating the response.
I'm actually surprised. Usually the media here follows the American media. This time they are being quite logical. Personally, I am proud of the Australian media.

They don't want to wipe out Israel because of its religion. I doubt the average Palestinian gives two shits about what a Jew does on his own time in his own home. They want to fight against the oppressors that stole their homes and murder their children in the street, and they do it in the only way they are capable.
Exactly. Those who sympathise with Zionist warmongering would have you beleive that it was all about religion. In reality it really is not. I'm certain the people of Palestine have developed an expected level of anti-semitism after what has happened to them, but it clearly isn't the root of the issue.

I am proud of the Australian media.
Any examples? I didn't really notice it, but I don't read the newspapers.

To me it seems like the Aussie media is pulling the same line everyone else is: Hezbollah and Hamas started it, but Israel is taking the response too far.

That's what the EU says, that's what many nations around the world are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738183.html

They don't want to wipe out Israel because of its religion. I doubt the average Palestinian gives two shits about what a Jew does on his own time in his own home. They want to fight against the oppressors that stole their homes and murder their children in the street, and they do it in the only way they are capable.

Because all the Israeli civilians and children were killed by buses and cafes randomly exploding for no reason, right? :rolleyes:

Any examples? I didn't really notice it, but I don't read the newspapers.

To me it seems like the Aussie media is pulling the same line everyone else is: Hezbollah and Hamas started it, but Israel is taking the response too far.

That's what the EU says, that's what many nations around the world are saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reaction_to_the_2006_Israel-Lebanon_crisis
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738183.html
Hmm. Well the only contact I have with the media is the Sydney papers at work. Perhaps it is just a Sydney Morning Herald /Daily Telegraph thing. Yesterdays front page of the populist Daily Telegraph had a full colour full page picture of the flaming beirut airport with the headlines "Trapped in hell". I was stunned, thats almost propaganda (Except that it's true). As I understand, there a more jews in Bris Vegas than in Sydney though (In fact a higher german population in general). Maybe that is why...

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6C062C97-F8D0-42B9-89A1-1C4D6963D512.htm
(http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6C062C97-F8D0-42B9-89A1-1C4D6963D512.htm)

the things western media dont let you see...



Is that so?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060716/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_lebanon_israel


Next time do your research.

Good for the EU!

Lets hope they can increase this aid enormously over time.

Good for the EU!

Lets hope they can increase this aid enormously over time.



Yeah, maybe they can send hamas weapons next? GO EU!

Yeah, maybe they can send hamas weapons next? GO EU!
Maybe it'd give them a chance against the billions of dollars of annual military aid to the IDF from the US. Go US!

Yeah, maybe they can send hamas weapons next? GO EU!

The palestinians and lebanese need sophisticated weapons which they can use to shoot down israeli planes and helicopters and ideally attack israeli airbases to deter and defeat israeli air force attacks.

Sophisticated anti-tank weapons would also be extremely useful in defending against israeli tanks and bulldozers on the ground.

If this were a fair fight, it would become effective for palestinians to start hitting hard israeli military targets instead of soft civilians ones and their tactics would probably change, sparing israeli civilian lives.

It would be a lot better for them to get these weapons from and show gratitude towards the EU rather than Iran or Syria or the Russians or the Chinese.

Canada
Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said “Israel has the right to defend itself,” as well as “I think Israel's response under the circumstances has been measured.” Regarding resolution to the conflict he has stated “It's essential that Hezbollah and Hamas release their Israeli prisoners and any countries in that area that have influence on these organizations should encourage an end to violence and recognize and encourage the recognition of Israel's right to exist.” [42]

Ahh, I love your Prime Minister.:)Bush is horny about Harper too...
:D :D ;) :D

Uhh, you do know that Palestine is a democracy, don't you?minds are clouded..

Facts:

There is so much election Fraud in Egypt.. You cant possibly call it a democracy.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar, UAE, Jordan and the other US allies are all de-facto Dictatorships.

only democracies of the ME:
Israel.
Palestine.
Iran.
and maybe Lebanon.

No...Hamas and Hezbollah shouldnt even be given another day to see what they can turn in to.

They should be destroyed, now.Hezbollah is going to be as difficult to destroy.. as AQ.

The palestinians and lebanese need sophisticated weapons which they can use to shoot down israeli planes and helicopters and ideally attack israeli airbases to deter and defeat israeli air force attacks.

Sophisticated anti-tank weapons would also be extremely useful in defending against israeli tanks and bulldozers on the ground.

If this were a fair fight, it would become effective for palestinians to start hitting hard israeli military targets instead of soft civilians ones and their tactics would probably change, sparing israeli civilian lives.

It would be a lot better for them to get these weapons from and show gratitude towards the EU rather than Iran or Syria or the Russians or the Chinese.



It would make more sense to not give them any weapons and limit the human lose of life and try a diplomatic approach. But who would want that?:rolleyes:

.. recently they've pursued a policy of bypassing Hamas and given aid directly to the Palestinian public in need of it.good, the less middle-men.. the better.

my motto: Reduce bureocracy

minds are clouded..

Facts:

There is so much election Fraud in Egypt.. You cant possibly call it a democracy.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Quatar, UAE, Jordan and the other US allies are all de-facto Dictatorships.

only democracies of the ME:
Israel.
Palestine.
Iran.
and maybe Lebanon.



*snicker*

Iran is also a de-facto dictatorship.

It would make more sense to not give them any weapons and limit the human lose of life and try a diplomatic approach. But who would want that?:rolleyes:


The israeli invasion of gaza and now their war against lebanon seem to have moved things out of the realm of diplomacy.

If israel will cease its hostilities, diplomacy is best.

If not, it needs to be beaten back first and then negotiated with.

It would make more sense to not give them any weapons and limit the human lose of life and try a diplomatic approach. But who would want that?:rolleyes:
Israel has shown time and time again that it just is not going to accept a diplomatic solution. Palestine will be theirs and they’ll be damned if petty things like human life and dignity get in the way.

The israeli invasion of gaza and now their war against lebanon seem to have moved things out of the real of diplomacy.

If israel wants to cease its hostilities, diplomacy is best.

If not, it needs to be beaten back and then negotiated with.



Israel wasn't the one who started this. Israel has been in defense mode since it was restarted after WW2...Guess why that is?

It would make more sense to not give them any weapons and limit the human lose of life and try a diplomatic approach. But who would want that?:rolleyes:
Certianly not Israel

WTF is wrong with Europe?

Now they are funding a terrorist organization that is openly attacking and kidnpapping against a good ally of the West?!

I wish my hand was big enough to give the European leaders one big bitch smack..across all of their faces.

Europe is fucking lame right now, in my opinion. They are acting like pussies.
:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Israel has shown time and time again that it just is not going to accept a diplomatic solution. Palestine will be theirs and they’ll be damned if petty things like human life and dignity get in the way.



Good lord.


It was Iran that stated they wanted to blow Israel off the map, it is islamic terrorists who wage a war of terror against Israel because they believe God gave it to them. The terrorists want Israel and they will be damned if petty things like human life and dignity get in the way.

If the terrorists stop so will Israel. Cut and Dry!

Israel wasn't the one who started this. Israel has been in defense mode since it was restarted after WW2...Guess why that is?
Oh my god (or lack thereof). You must be Jewish or something. Nobody exhibits this level of selective memory in a free country. So, Israel is the victim in this situation are they? :p

Israel wasn't the one who started this. Israel has been in defense mode since it was restarted after WW2...Guess why that is?
Perhaps because they atre surrounded by people who want to kill them for no good reason?:fluffle:

Good lord.


It was Iran that stated they wanted to blow Israel off the map, it is islamic terrorists who wage a war of terror against Israel because they believe God gave it to them. The terrorists want Israel and they will be damned if petty things like human life and dignity get in the way.

If the terrorists stop so will Israel. Cut and Dry!
That is called a red herring fallacy. Best put by Saddam Hussein in South Park "Hey! Look over here. See..you feel better now don't you?".

Perhaps because they are surrounded by people who want to kill them for no good reason?:fluffle:



You got it buddy!:fluffle:

It was Iran that stated they wanted to blow Israel off the map, it is islamic terrorists who wage a war of terror against Israel because they believe God gave it to them. The terrorists want Israel and they will be damned if petty things like human life and dignity get in the way.

If the terrorists stop so will Israel. Cut and Dry!
It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Israel’s terrorism. Should the Palestinians abandon the land that was there’s for centuries? Should they ignore the systematic murder of their brothers? They are fighting a revolution. A revolution against the tyranny of Zionism.

Israel wasn't the one who started this. Israel has been in defense mode since it was restarted after WW2...Guess why that is?


Israel escalated this.


The taking of a few soldiers as prisoner is not sufficient for a full-scale invasion of gaza and this despicable attack on lebanon.


The taking of 3 soldiers was israel's pretense, not its motive.

That is called a red herring fallacy. Best put by Saddam Hussein in South Park "Hey! Look over here. See..you feel better now don't you?".


Does that make you feel better? It shouldn't.

The fact is Israel is NOT the problem here, Israel has been attacked and threatend by Islamic terrorist groups for decades that wish to destroy it because they believe Israel belongs to them and not the filthy Jews. Israel is not the problem, the people who wish to destroy it are.


Guess what, Those Islamic terrorists now control entire countries.

Israel escalated this.


The taking of a few soldiers as prisoner is not sufficient for a full-scale invasion of gaza and this despicable attack on lebanon.


The taking of 3 soldiers was israel's pretense, not its motive.


The Lebanon things was Israel believed they were aiding the terrorists.

It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Israel’s terrorism. Should the Palestinians abandon the land that was there’s for centuries? Should they ignore the systematic murder of their brothers? They are fighting a revolution. A revolution against the tyranny of Zionism.


:eek:


You scare me......Thats all I can say...You scare me......

The Lebanon things was Israel believed they were aiding the terrorists.
Yeah, but guess what? You can’t attack a fucking country because some people in it may be involved in a criminal action in yours. That defies all concepts of sovereignty and ethics that I can imagine.

It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with Israel’s terrorism. Should the Palestinians abandon the land that was there’s for centuries? Should they ignore the systematic murder of their brothers? They are fighting a revolution. A revolution against the tyranny of Zionism.

You, my friend, need a very good history lesson. Palestine has been a highly envied region since the days of Egypt.

Cannanites and the other local tribes held the area until the Israelites kicked them out. They stayed there, for a time under their own rule but under the authority of greater powers in the region such as the Babylonian and Assyrian Empires. Then, eventually, they were conquered by Assyria, then Babylon. The Persians, who succeeded those two empires, were more benevolent to the Jews. The Romans then came and took over the region. The Jews didn't much care for the Romans, and when you piss off a superpower, the results aren't good. The Jews were shipped off in the Diaspora. Then, the Arabs moved in and claimed the land as theirs. They then fought among themselves until the Europeans showed up in the Crusades. They proceeded to repel the Crusaders, then resumed killing each other. You can repeat this until the British took over everything in the region. Then whenever the U.N. recreated the state of Israel, the Arabs claimed it was their land. The Israelis pointed to their past claims to the region. And here we are today!

The fact is, BOTH sides have a legitimate claim to the region, so the logical conclusion is to share it.

As we have seen, Israel is willing to compromise and share with the Palestinians, but understandably, not willing to deal with daily rocket attacks.

As we have seen, Israel is willing to compromise and share with the Palestinians, but understandably, not willing to deal with daily rocket attacks.
And the Palestinians aren't willing to deal with theft, blatant racism and intolerance toward their faith and tradtions as well as murder. A neighborhood doesn't deserve to be destroyed just because a Paletinian freedom fighter happened to originate from it.

Yeah, but guess what? You can’t attack a fucking country because some people in it may be involved in a criminal action in yours. That defies all concepts of sovereignty and ethics that I can imagine.



You can if the government is the one doing it.

And the Palestinians aren't willing to deal with theft, blatant racism and intolerance toward their faith and tradtions as well as murder. A neighborhood doesn't deserve to be destroyed just because a Paletinian freedom fighter happened to originate from it.



Your statement applies to israel.

Does that make you feel better? It shouldn't.

The fact is Israel is NOT the problem here, Israel has been attacked and threatend by Islamic terrorist groups for decades that wish to destroy it because they believe Israel belongs to them and not the filthy Jews. Israel is not the problem, the people who wish to destroy it are.


Guess what, Those Islamic terrorists now control entire countries.
Again, Suiko, it has not much at all to do with relgion or anti-semitism. It has everything to do with Israel systematically destroying lives ever since it illegitimately arrived. It wouldn't matter if they were buddhist, of course the palestinians would strike back.

And the Palestinians aren't willing to deal with theft, blatant racism and intolerance toward their faith and tradtions as well as murder. A neighborhood doesn't deserve to be destroyed just because a Paletinian freedom fighter happened to originate from it.

Um, where is this evidence of blatant racism and intolerance? Israel does have several Arabs in its parliament, after all.

You can if the government is the one doing it.
Just because the government does something doesn't make it ethical. I thought that was established in the eighteenth century.

Just because the government does something doesn't make it ethical. I thought that was established in the eighteenth century.

Exactly... that's why Israel is attacking Lebanon :rolleyes:

Um, where is this evidence of blatant racism and intolerance? Israel does have several Arabs in its parliament, after all.
Why, the ease at which they destroy the lives of brown people but weep for the Hebrews killed when the sand monkeys dare to strike back.

The Lebanon things was Israel believed they were aiding the terrorists.
BS. Only the US invades on a false suspicion.

EU announces new Palestinian aid.
14 Jul 2006 14:14:42 GMT

BRUSSELS, July 14 (Reuters) - The European Union announced 50 million euros ($63.38 million) for the Palestinian territories on Friday, saying it strongly condemned escalating violence in the region.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm

my2cents: I was expecting that.. thumbs up.

Nothing on Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN about this.

Nothing on Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN about this.
Maybe that's because those stations suck.

Why, the ease at which they destroy the lives of brown people but weep for the Hebrews killed when the sand monkeys dare to strike back.

That applies to every single country in conflict in the world. Did you expect the Americans during WW2 to be equally upset over Americans dying as Germans dying?

Maybe that's because those stations suck.

Doubtful that its even true. No news websites I look at (and there are alot of them) are running it.

Not even Rueters.

Again, Suiko, it has not much at all to do with relgion or anti-semitism. It has everything to do with Israel systematically destroying lives ever since it illegitimately arrived. It wouldn't matter if they were buddhist, of course the palestinians would strike back.



Religion and anti-semitism have everything to do with this. Israel was illegitimately erased by the romans around 74 ad, they were forced into exile and subject to racism and torture. The rebirth of Israel was an attempt to fix a near 2000 year injustice. The Islamic terrorists always thought Israel belonged to them because the Koran said so. Israel has been attacked for decades for no good reason and they are trying to defend themselves and their homeland.


Anti-Semitism is a disgusting virus that lead to WW2, and now its showing its ugly head again.


FYI, can you tell me what the Romans called the area after they erased it??????

Religion and anti-semitism have everything to do with this. Israel was illegitimately erased by the romans around 74 ad, they were forced into exile and subject to racism and torture. The rebirth of Israel was an attempt to fix a near 2000 year injustice. The Islamic terrorists always thought Israel belonged to them because the Koran said so. Israel has been attacked for decades for no good reason and they are trying to defend themselves and their homeland.


Anti-Semitism is a disgusting virus that lead to WW2, and now its showing its ugly head again.


FYI, can you tell me what the Romans called the area after they erased it??????

Judaea, I think.

Religion and anti-semitism have everything to do with this. Israel was illegitimately erased by the romans around 74 ad, they were forced into exile and subject to racism and torture. The rebirth of Israel was an attempt to fix a near 2000 year injustice. The Islamic terrorists always thought Israel belonged to them because the Koran said so. Israel has been attacked for decades for no good reason and they are trying to defend themselves and their homeland.
So the Arabs should have to suffer for what the Romans did. They should lose their land and their lives?
Anti-Semitism is a disgusting virus that lead to WW2, and now its showing its ugly head again.

The Jews aren't special. Every race and creed has been disriminated agiants.
FYI, can you tell me what the Romans called the area after they erased it??????
Palestine, and what of it?

So the Arabs should have to suffer for what the Romans did. They should lose their land and their lives?

Their land? It was never THEIRS to begin with. Why should the jews suffer and lose their land by the hands of Islamic terrorists?

The Jews aren't special. Every race and creed has been disriminated agiants.

Is it any less because its the Jews? Shouldn't all racism be stopped?

Palestine, and what of it?

Israel was erased illegally and the Jews forced into exile, the fact that Palestine exists is just......


FYI, It was Syria Palestinia. (May have misspelled it)

Their land? It was never THEIRS to begin with. Why should the jews suffer and lose their land by the hands of Islamic terrorists?
They lived there for hundred of years. An ancient claim means nothing.
Is it any less because its the Jews? Shouldn't all racism be stopped?
Yeah, but the only racism going on is against Arabs.
Israel was erased illegally and the Jews forced into exile, the fact that Palestine exists is just......[/QUOTE]
That was literally thousands of years ago! It is irrelevant now. I guess the Celts should get Britain back from the god damned Anglo-Saxons. Sheesh. It's call migration it happens.

They lived there for hundred of years. An ancient claim means nothing.

The jews lived there for centuries.

Yeah, but the only racism going on is against Arabs.


Are you joking? Read up on Islamic terrorist groups before you make that blanket claim and turn off aj.


That was literally thousands of years ago! It is irrelevant now. I guess the Celts should get Britain back from the god damned Anglo-Saxons. Sheesh. It's call migration it happens.


The jews were FORCED out and expelled! Thats not migration.:rolleyes:

dp

EU announces new Palestinian aid.
14 Jul 2006 14:14:42 GMT

BRUSSELS, July 14 (Reuters) - The European Union announced 50 million euros ($63.38 million) for the Palestinian territories on Friday, saying it strongly condemned escalating violence in the region.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14905630.htm

my2cents: I was expecting that.. thumbs up.


The EU is one fucked up bunch of head in the sand shirkers.....I guess it will take a nuke on the head to wake them the fuck up .


Ohhhh you are soooooooooooo threatning ...please dont hurt us ...we will send you a note of sweetnes. And take some CASH...but just leave us be...you Vikings you ....


I want to puke .

Yeah, maybe they can send hamas weapons next? GO EU!
You refuse to listen.

The money does not go to Hamas, Fatah or even the Lebanese government. The money will be spent on food, engineers and the like to be distributed by the UN. It is a perfectly neutral response to many thousands of refugees and many more civilians cut off from basic services.

It's "aid" in the actual sense of the word. It's money to help the people there, it's apolitical. Just try and get that into your head.

Yesterdays front page of the populist Daily Telegraph had a full colour full page picture of the flaming beirut airport with the headlines "Trapped in hell".
Yes, because Australian tourists are trapped in that country, and find themselves in the middle of a war at a moment's notice. That headline has absolutely no political bias or message whatsoever.

As I understand, there a more jews in Bris Vegas than in Sydney though (In fact a higher german population in general). Maybe that is why...
Yeah, because Jews (especially the German ones) have a natural tendency to take over the media...:rolleyes:

Nothing on Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN about this.Neocon mind: If its not on FOX/CNN ..it never happened. :rolleyes:

_____________________________________________________
EU Lashes Israel, Announces New Aid to PA
17:31 Jul 14, '06 / 18 Tammuz 5766

(IsraelNN.com) The European Union (EU) Friday continued to lash out at Israel for its reprisals against the Hizbullah terrorist infrastructure and also announced another $63 million in aid for the Palestinian Authority (PA). The money is earmarked for food distribution, basic health services and water and sanitation, according to a EU commission statement. The EU has set up a mechanism to bypass the Hamas government, which the United States has blacklisted because it is a terrorist organization.
Louis Michel, commissioner for the aid, said he condemned the escalating violence but emphasized that civilians in the Gaza region and in Lebanon are "casualties of the Israeli blockades and incursions."

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=107358

You refuse to listen.

The money does not go to Hamas, Fatah or even the Lebanese government. The money will be spent on food, engineers and the like to be distributed by the UN. It is a perfectly neutral response to many thousands of refugees and many more civilians cut off from basic services.

It's "aid" in the actual sense of the word. It's money to help the people there, it's apolitical. Just try and get that into your head.

We all know by now that the aid could never be gotten by terrorists..:rolleyes:


Tried in africa, doesn't work so just stop and get peace before aid.

Neocon mind: If its not on FOX/CNN ..it never happened. :rolleyes:


He just said it wasn't on those channels, he never said it didn't happen. SHEESH!

The jews lived there for centuries. But the Arabs lived their most recently. We're civilised now. We don't force people out of their homes.
Are you joking? Read up on Islamic terrorist groups before you make that blanket claim and turn off aj.
Merely a reaction to opression, like the Black Panthers. It isn't efficiant but it is understandable.
The jews were FORCED out and expelled! Thats not migration.:rolleyes:
What part of Two Thousand years ago do you not understand? It has no relevance now. The Romans did that to plenty of peoples.

But the Arabs lived their most recently. We're civilised now. We don't force people out of their homes.

So have the Jews.

Merely a reaction to opression, like the Black Panthers. It isn't efficiant but it is understandable.

Are you saying racism in response to racism is ok?

What part of Two Thousand years ago do you not understand? It has no relevance now. The Romans did that to plenty of peoples.


What part of it was an injustice do YOU not understand? This one can be fixed if all the Jew haters will allow it. It was wrong and never should have happened.

He just said it wasn't on those channels, he never said it didn't happen. SHEESH!wait a minute.. What exactly was the point of post #187 ???

Nothing on Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN about this.
.
I mean... do you really think Corneliu is just asking for channel advice here :confused:
.
and what about this follow up:
Doubtful that its even true. No news websites I look at (and there are alot of them) are running it.

Not even Rueters.
.. use your brain Suiko.. its not that hard. ;)

We all know by now that the ai could never be gotten by terrorists..:rolleyes:
The solution? Let the people starve.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/06/993&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
Rather than relying on Israel National News, which prefers to use terms like "lashes out", Fox, CNN or Al-Jazeera, why don't we just get the facts from the source?

In response to the worsening situation in the Palestinian Territories, the European Commission has announced plans to provide a further €50 million in humanitarian aid. The EU's Budget Authority (the European Parliament and Council of Ministers) has already agreed to the allocation of the new financing from the emergency reserve of the EC budget. This will allow for a more forceful and comprehensive response to the growing needs of the Palestinians. Areas to be covered include food delivery, healthcare, water/sanitation and protection activities. The new funds are being channelled through the Commission's Humanitarian Aid department (ECHO (http://ec.europa.eu/echo/index_en.htm)), under the responsibility of Louis Michel, Commissioner for Development and Humanitarian Aid.

Louis Michel said: "I strongly condemn the escalating violence in the region and deplore the ever-worsening humanitarian situation of people living in Gaza and the West Bank. Once again, civilians are paying the price of conflict. They are the main casualties of the Israeli blockades and incursions in Gaza, and now in Lebanon. Movement restrictions are also making it very difficult for humanitarian operators to help the people that most need it. I strongly urge both Israeli and Palestinian authorities to facilitate the work of the humanitarian agencies and ensure the protection of civilians."

The latest funding package will help to meet the vital needs of around 1.5 million people living in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Activities to be undertaken by the Commission's humanitarian partners include:

Food distribution: Food will be distributed to an estimated 500,000 people until the end of this year by Commission humanitarian partners such as the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNWRA), the UN World Food Programme (WFP) and CARE.
Health: The UN's World Health Organisation (WHO), CARE, MERLIN are potential partners for the provision of basic health services.
Water and sanitation: NGOs such as CARE and OXFAM will ensure water supplies for the most vulnerable communities as soon as possible.
Protection: As the population is increasingly exposed to violations of international humanitarian and human rights law, the Commission will fund protection activities implemented by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).
These funds are in addition to the €34 million announced last week from the Commission's regular humanitarian budget (see IP/06/959) and the €105 million channelled through the Temporary International Mechanism for the direct delivery of basic needs assistance to the Palestinian people (see IP/06/831 and IP/06/973) and a €120 million package of aid announced in February (IP/06/235).
For further information:

http://ec.europa.eu/echo/field/gaza/index_en.htm

Are we finished with this now? OceanDrive tried to present this as the EU taking sides in the conflict, perhaps as the EU being a supporter for Arab Terrorists as the US is for Israel. This is blatantly false, and I have said it multiple times. Unfortunately people seem to be quite willing to pretend the EU is some sort of insane leftist organisation (completely forgetting that it was conservatives who led the way on pretty much every step of its creation), and go along with it.

wait a minute.. What exactly was the poit of that post???



I mean... do you really think Corneliu is just asking for channel advice... :confused:

and what about this follow up:



He is just stating he can't find it. Thats all.

any arab as long as he is not a terrorist can become an israeli citzen. who expelled the palistiens the other arabs.
fiction zoinist terrorists expelled the arabs in their racist attacks on creating a pure state.
fact: israelies begged and pleaded for the palestians to stay. palestian left because the arab leaders told them that they would win the israeli independence day war and take all the jewish land. these palestains are now being held by arab contries as "hostages" for politicol reasons.

Fiction: jewish oppresors attack and steal moslem land.

Fact: jews bought land from arabs who were glad to sell land. the entire middle and upper class of palestians fled israel on the misinformation of the arab government.

i noticed that you guys (supporters of the arabs and terrorists) base the claim to the land of judea/sumaria on the fact that moslems took the place over. in that case why can't israel do it peacefully.

if mexico was firing missles at the u.s.a do you think that america would not attack mexico.

The jews were FORCED out and expelled! Thats not migration.:rolleyes:
You seem to have misunderstood. The celts did not migrate from England, The Saxons migrated to england. Therefore his reference was at the way in which the arabs migrated to Israel, not the way in which the Jews left.

He is just stating he can't find it. Thats all.LOL.. I have a bridge I want to sell you.. its called "Golden gate"

I literally cannot believe that anyone - even an organization as stupid as the EU - would willingly help the Palestinians. I can agree that the Palestinians are mistreated, but that doesn't change the fact that both Hamas and Hezbollah, the most powerful Palestinian groups, are nothing more than organized murder under the guise of a supposedly peaceful religion. Both groups are not so much after a free Palestine as they are after complete and total extermination of the Isreali people. Isreal has every right to retaliate even if they hadn't been invaded. I'm surprised Isreal just sat there and let the Palestinians murder their people for so long before finally doing something about it. Admittedly, tension in the Middle East would be greatly reduced if the Palestinians had a nation to call their own (besides the several they already call their own) but there are much more effective ways that don't involve mudering innocent Isreali civilians. Don't believe me? Here's proof. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi)

if mexico was firing missles at the u.s.a do you think that america would not attack mexico.
Except that Lebanon didn't fire any missiles. A group of criminals who live in Lebanon kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

You seem to have misunderstood. The celts did not migrate from England, The Saxons migrated to england. Therefore his reference was at the way in which the arabs migrated to Israel, not the way in which the Jews left.


The arabs got there mostly due to an Invasion of the area and the Jews being forced out before hand. The difference here is that celtics still have a country of their own which is in no true threat, Jews don't have that benefit, Israel is all they got.

Are you saying racism in response to racism is ok?
No, but is understandable and expected.
What part of it was an injustice do YOU not understand? This one can be fixed if all the Jew haters will allow it. It was wrong and never should have happened.
Jew haters? You mean Arabs trying to live their lives without bulldozers coming through their homes?

I literally cannot believe that anyone - even an organization as stupid as the EU - would willingly help the Palestinians. I can agree that the Palestinians are mistreated, but that doesn't change the fact that both Hamas and Hezbollah, the most powerful Palestinian groups..the fact..
the fact?

the fact is that you dont have a clue what you are talking about.

LOL.. I have a bridge I want to sell you.. its called "Golden gate"



Forget it. :rolleyes: *Moves On*

The money does not go to Hamas, Fatah or even the Lebanese government. The money will be spent on food, engineers and the like to be distributed by the UN. It is a perfectly neutral response to many thousands of refugees and many more civilians cut off from basic services.
Which I might add, is only a problem because of Israels collective punishments (=War crime).
Yes, because Australian tourists are trapped in that country, and find themselves in the middle of a war at a moment's notice. That headline has absolutely no political bias or message whatsoever. It was emotive. The stories inside elaborated on the trouble Israel is causing, etc... Not just Australian tourist, but also expats. 25000 Australians was the number given by the Daily Telegraph.
Yeah, because Jews (especially the German ones) have a natural tendency to take over the media...:rolleyes: Jesus Christ! You hyper-sensitive bitch. More like if there are more Jews, then you should print what they like to read. A newspaper is a business. Just like the huge Palestinian and general muslim population in Sydney no doubt has an effect on what the papers publish here. Greeks in Melbourne. Whatever. Relax.

the fact is that you dont have a clue what you are talking about.
Hey dude, could you add this link to the original post please?

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/06/993&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

It's the EU press release, and if people read it, they'll be informed before they start posting these really random things on this thread that I'm seeing right now.

No, but is understandable and expected.

Wrong again NU!

Jew haters? You mean Arabs trying to live their lives without bulldozers coming through their homes?


have you missed the fact Islamic terror groups attack Israel on a regular basis? Don't Jews have the same rights as Arabs?

It was emotive.
Oh, the Australian commercial media likes to rely on emotional tearjerking to sell. What a revelation.
I suggest you stick to SBS, and perhaps ABC.

The stories inside elaborated on the trouble Israel is causing, etc...
A German family (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2096917,00.html) was almost wiped out by the Israelis as well. Hardly tells you anything about the right or wrong of the operation though.

More like if there are more Jews, then you should print what they like to read.
So you can show me Sydney newspapers or Melbourne newspapers vs Brisbane newspapers and a clear difference in opinion? I have my doubt.

Rather than relying on Israel National News, which prefers to use terms like "lashes out"...News organizations are free to use terms they find apropriate..

Its called Freedom-of-the-Press
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press

dont they have that in Loenistan/Germany/Australia.. or wherever you live?

have you missed the fact Islamic terror groups attack Israel on a regular basis? Don't Jews have the same rights as Arabs?
Yes. And nobody has the "right" to attack anyone unless they are having their rights denied them.

Also, beyond some sort of false historical obligation, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is about Israelis, whether Christian, Jew or Muslim they are assaulting and oppressing their Arab neighbors.

News organizations are free to use terms they find apropriate..

Its called Freedom-of-the-Press.
Oh, brother.

Freedom of the Press and bias will eventually collide at some point. And besides, for the purposes of this discussion you want the facts, not the interpretation of them. We're doing the interpreting ourselves.

The facts are given in the EU press release. Whether anyone is lashing out at anyone else is up to interpretation. So please, put up the press release on the OP, and let people make up their own minds over what the EU is doing here.

Yes. And nobody has the "right" to attack anyone unless they are having their rights denied them.

Also, beyond some sort of false historical obligation, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is about Israelis, whether Christian, Jew or Muslim they are assaulting and oppressing their Arab neighbors.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghandi


I miss you Ghandi, we need more people like you.

Hey dude, could you add this link to the original post please?You have accused me of telling lies..
everything I posted here is 100% the truth.

If you prove your accusation.. I will process your request.. and add your link to my OP.

We're doing the interpreting ourselves.usually I avoid doing interpretations..

most of last year I was posting only the NewsArticles..
But soemone (Jocabia) complained to moderation.. and now I have no choice but to add a small "comment"

You have accused me of telling lies..
everything I posted here is 100% the truth.
Hey, we both have been on here long enough to know what you're doing. You don't lie anymore, you let other people do the lying by deliberately creating a certain slant to the discussion and then not correcting people when they offer wild hypotheses.

Have you lied? No. You don't lie anymore.
Are you the person responsible for the ridiculous myth in this thread that the EU has chosen to side with the Palestinians and Lebanese governments on this? Yes, in my opinion you are.

So I'm asking you to put up the facts, straight and without interpretation or slant. If you don't want to, fine. But remember that there is no reason not to if my theory isn't correct.

Freedom of the Press and bias will eventually collide at some point.I could not agree more (you are 100% correct)

Yeah, but guess what? You can’t attack a fucking country because some people in it may be involved in a criminal action in yours. That defies all concepts of sovereignty and ethics that I can imagine.
Depends on ones ethics. Not to mention that this is more the straw that broke the camel's back then anything else.

See the middle two quotes in my sig for reference.

You don't lie anymore....

Have you lied? No. You don't lie anymore. lets get to the bottom of this, shall we?

You have said twice in the same post "you don't lie anymore"..

Sounds to me you are implying "OD used to lie."..maybe I am wrong.. but it sure smells that way.

so Leo, here is my challenge
My previous nicks are oceandrive1/2/3 ... If you prove I "used to lie".. I will add your disclaimers and link of choice to my OP..

furthermore.. If you are succesful and prove it.. , I will ask the mods to lock this, if you want that too (jokes and sarcasms do not cut it.. but i guess you know that)

happy hunting Leo.. Good luck ;)

Yes. And nobody has the "right" to attack anyone unless they are having their rights denied them.

Also, beyond some sort of false historical obligation, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is about Israelis, whether Christian, Jew or Muslim they are assaulting and oppressing their Arab neighbors.


If you simply look at the history of the conflict and who attacked/attacks who, you will see that Israel is in fact the one being assaulted. To say otherwise would be an outright lie.

happy hunting Leo.. Good luck ;)
Right. And now I go and waste half an hour of my life going through the sort of silly fights you've gotten yourself into. I would if the "Search" function wasn't asking for 180 seconds of a break between uses. As it is, no thanks.

How about an alternative: I change my post so it doesn't imply that you weren't honest in the past, and you put the facts into the OP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghandi


I miss you Ghandi, we need more people like you.
Pacifism will not work on the Zionists. It only worked on the British in India because they too were unwilling to put up a fight so soon after a world war, and it only worked for MLK because of the guilt felt (rightfully) by whites. Guilt is something that Israelis seem to lack, and they are obviously not willing to back down, no matter how wrong they are.

Also, Ghandi would have condemned the Israelis long before the Arabs.

Oh, the Australian commercial media likes to rely on emotional tearjerking to sell. What a revelation.
I suggest you stick to SBS, and perhaps ABC.
Tell me about it. :rolleyes: Ever watched A Current Affair? :p

So you can show me Sydney newspapers or Melbourne newspapers vs Brisbane newspapers and a clear difference in opinion? I have my doubt.
No proof. I was just rationalising. I know Brisbane has heaps of Germans (I went to school there for a while), and seeing as most european immigrants came over in the WWII era, german, polish and russian populations usually have a high jewish content (Higher than the average demographic from where the emigrated from). Further, the muslim community in Sydney is famous (or notorious). Next, I just assume that papers will write what ever the people want to hear, populism. Given that different localities in the states have their own papers, I assumed that the papers would have a tone and position reflective of the demographic groups they are trying to get to purchase their paper. In Ipswich QLD (Pauline Hansons hometown) I simply could not read the local paper out of sheer frustration at it's insularity. But I may indeed be wrong. I was, after all, just rationalising, and rationalisation was superceded by empiricism way back in the renaissance as the chosen method of ascertaining the truth in uncertain circumstances. :p

you put the facts into the OP.the OP is already all facts.. you want to add more facts? You want more detailed Facts?
I welcome that.
that what Reply fuction is for
How about an alternative: I change my post so it doesn't imply that you weren't honest in the past, and you put the ....Common Leo.. a veteran like you.. you know better than that.. blackmail does not work with me ("do as i say or I will call you anti-semite")

My "challenge" post is not about me being desperate for you to stop calling me names.
(It was like 40% adding spice to this forums.. and some 60% my competitive nature.)

no sweat.
mis testiculos son de titanium. ;)

BTW.. All of this does not change the high oppinion I have of you.

My "challenge" post is not about me being desperate for you to stop calling me names.
Right.

So just the one I could think of out of the top of my head. Remember when Hamas was elected?

You accused Bush of trying to overturn the election result by asking Abbas not to step down.

In reality Abbas was of course independent of the election, and Abbas resigning would've been his own decision out of frustration, which Bush wanted to prevent.

Of course you won't accept that now though, and instead claim that you didn't know any better. Can't remember whether you ever got around changing the claim in the OP though after people told you though...;)

Can't remember whether you ever got around changing the claim in the OP though after people told you though...;)I never chaged the OP.. why should I?
like this one.. I never claimed anything.. It was a copy paste from a NEWSsite.. with the full credits posted.

I also remeber you saying that I Fucked up or something.. only to have other posters point-out that it was simply a copypasted news article.

but If you do not remember all this.. I can try to search it for you. ;)

You realise that much of this aid may well not be given in wads of cash, but in crates of food etc?
You mean like the Oil for Food program?

Yes. And nobody has the "right" to attack anyone unless they are having their rights denied them.

Also, beyond some sort of false historical obligation, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is about Israelis, whether Christian, Jew or Muslim they are assaulting and oppressing their Arab neighbors.

So two people being kidnapped isn't infringing on anyone's rights?

Israel is doing what any nation that was invaded would do.So is Palestine.
Actually, it would be fine if the arabs were civilized enough to tolerate a small nation on resource dry land.Resource-dry, yes, but both Muslims and Jews consider parts, or all, of Israel to be their holy land. Furthermore, no matter how resource-dry the land is, how would you like it if you were uprooted for the purpose of creating a small state?
Their land? It was never THEIRS to begin with. Why should the jews suffer and lose their land by the hands of Islamic terrorists?When Israel was re-created, the Palestinians were living their lives there, working there, loving there, having children there, celebrating birthdays there; they were then uprooted by the Zionists in the name of creating a Jewish homeland. Uprooting Palestinians from the Jews' land because of ancient Roman massacres was no more just than it would be to uproot Americans from their homes and returning it to the American Indians, or returning Australia to the Aborigines.
The jews lived there for centuries.So did the Palestinians!

The entire situation in Israel is the result of a lot of bad decision-making resulting in a situation where there are no good solutions. Both nations feel entitled to Israel and feel invaded by the other. (In my opinion, the Palestinians are more justified in this belief, but I digress--while I condemn many of Israel's actions in the past half century, I also understand the rationale for its creation.) But the damage is irreversible--de-creating Israel would be just as irrational as creating it in the first place.

The entire situation is just sad, and the only solution is for both sides to accept that the options are either giving up some power to the other or living in a state of perpetual violence.

Actually, it would be fine if the arabs were civilized enough to tolerate a small nation on resource dry land.

But, alas, they are savages and cant deal with that.

My we're own a racist streak. Thats about the third comment of yours I've noticed in the last day or so.

The EU is one fucked up bunch of head in the sand shirkers.....I guess it will take a nuke on the head to wake them the fuck up .
Is that really the standard response that you learn in U.S. Special Education schools or something?

You and DesignatedMarksman are almost the same on issues like this.

"OMFG GLASS THEM YEAH THAT'LL WORK! THEY DON'T LIKE THE US SO THEY ARE EEEEVIL AND ISLAMIC TERRORIST LOVERS!"

Maybe if you looked at what was going on rather than instantly thinking "EU = HAMAS' mates" you'd get a better picture of it.

The EU has decided that enough is enough, and that it needs to do something to help the everyday people of Palestine.

It's raised €50 million and is spending it on food, water and engineers which are being sent to Palestine. It is not wiring €50 million straight to the Palestinian Authority, because it knows that if that happens, it'll get spent on AK-47s rather than basic amenities and rebuilding.
Ohhhh you are soooooooooooo threatning ...please dont hurt us ...we will send you a note of sweetnes. And take some CASH...but just leave us be...you Vikings you ....
No, you see, that's the thing.

The job of funding and training terrorists and horrible dictators goes to the US.

The EU is trying to calm the situation down and help to save the lives of innocent bystanders which, due to no fault of their own, are being killed by the Israelis for a crime which even the PA didn't commit (it was the work of a couple of pissed off militants, HAMAS can't control what they're doing).

Unlike the US, we don't let our rage at terrorists blind us in the EU. Since September 11th, the US has launched two utterly fruitless wars, rather than thinking about the underlying reasons behind the attacks and how it could stop future attacks from occuring.

On the other hand, what the EU is doing in this situation is feeding, clothing and giving the Palestinians a chance to live their lives properly, because they know that if you deny anyone that right, then you're only helping potential terrorists, by giving them fuel for their fire, and some truth to their rethoric.

What the US and Israel does, with indescriminite airstrikes against population centres is only going to exacertbate the situation. If someone is leaning towards the view that Israel might be in the right and their house gets blown up, or their wife is mutilated by shrapnel, then you've turned them into another disollusioned recruit to be.

If you take away everything that makes someone happy and makes them want to live their life, then you get people who are actually wishing for a swift end to their problems, and a way to get back at their enemies.

And that kind of person is the kind of person that walks onto a bus and blows themself up.

What the EU is doing is stopping people getting that desperate.

What Israel is doing is indirectly encouraging it.
I want to puke .
Yes, me too. This situation is going completely out of control, and if Israel thinks it's winning support from the world by blaming Syria for the attacks on Haifa, or it thinks that this will magically help its cause, then it's wrong.

If they attack Syria, then you're going to have the Syrian and Persian armies attacking Israel.

And it's clear that this isn't going to be another Six Days' War.

The UN created Israel in the wrong place? correct the Mistake.
So you want to drive Israel into the sea, basically? Israel is there to say. The past can't be undone.

Ahhh, now your true colors are showing. You are both a bigot and ignorant of the factual history of Israel. Thanks for making it clear now before I wasted any more time with you.
He has a point though. Muslim countries are so bigoted that Israel was always going to cause problems. Can't you see that?

Really? THEY do? It would seem their neighbors are more in need of it considering they attacked first.

They need to realise that trying to bitchsmack the Arabs into submission is a failed policy.

Fuck no. And neither would Canada, Australia, Zuid Afrikaa, New Zealand...ect
Hence, how the Arabs feel.

Well, literally, he was, yes.
Mandela only destroyed things. The Afrikaan junta killed people.

No. America doesnt send rocket fire over the borders nor does it abduct Canadians.
I think you've forgotten what analogy you're arguing about. If the Natives seized back their original lands, the US would absolutely slaughter them.

Meh...

The country was better off back then, stronge economy, good country, safe, rich.
Only for the whites. For the black majority it was poor and dangerous.

The UN created Israel in the wrong place? correct the Mistake.
So you want to drive Israel into the sea, basically? Israel is there to say. The past can't be undone.

Ahhh, now your true colors are showing. You are both a bigot and ignorant of the factual history of Israel. Thanks for making it clear now before I wasted any more time with you.
He has a point though. Muslim countries are so bigoted that Israel was always going to cause problems. Can't you see that?

Really? THEY do? It would seem their neighbors are more in need of it considering they attacked first.

They need to realise that trying to bitchsmack the Arabs into submission is a failed policy.

Fuck no. And neither would Canada, Australia, Zuid Afrikaa, New Zealand...ect
Hence, how the Arabs feel.

Well, literally, he was, yes.
Mandela only destroyed things. The Afrikaan junta killed people.

No. America doesnt send rocket fire over the borders nor does it abduct Canadians.
I think you've forgotten what analogy you're arguing about. If the Natives seized back their original lands, the US would absolutely slaughter them.

Meh...

The country was better off back then, stronge economy, good country, safe, rich.
Only for the whites. For the black majority it was poor and dangerous.

Only for the whites. For the black majority it was poor and dangerous.No denying that, but, heres my question, was it poorer and more dangerous than the rest of the African countries?

No doubt South Africa was bad to blacks, but did blacks live better there than just about everywhere else in Africa?

Now nobody lives well (except a tiny few), its dangerous for everyone, the government is crap, the economy is crap, the murder rate is sky high, the AIDs rate is sky high....ect.

You cannot seriously tell me South Africa wasnt a better nation back then.

But it wasn't perfect or getting better, so something had to change. With some investment from fairminded western companies and the stopping of exploitation the economy would boom solving some of the other problems at the same time.

But it wasn't perfect or getting better, so something had to change. With some investment from fairminded western companies and the stopping of exploitation the economy would boom solving some of the other problems at the same time.
I never said the country was perfect, it was far from it...but I did say it was better than it is now.

Israel was erased illegally and the Jews forced into exile, the fact that Palestine exists is just......

Repeatedly claiming it was illegal won't magically make it true. In a Roman province the only law that mattered was Roman law, which meant if you weren't a Roman citizen, and especially if you were revolting as well as belonging to a religion which didn't recognise the divinity of the Emperor, then they could do pretty much whatever they wanted to you. Don't like it? Blame the Jewish Kings that invited the Romans in in the first place.

So you want to drive Israel into the sea, basically? Israel is there to say. The past can't be undone.

Oh really? They wanted to make a country there when all Arabs rejected that! They have to face the consequences or their decision.

Of course it can be undone: Iran, Syria and Hizbollah and Hamas are working on that.

Israel is in a bad situation now, because they're fighting a militia - and fighting a militia is harder than fighting an organized army.

WTF is Israel bombing now? They're bombing and damaging Libanon, not Hizbollah.

No denying that, but, heres my question, was it poorer and more dangerous than the rest of the African countries?

No doubt South Africa was bad to blacks, but did blacks live better there than just about everywhere else in Africa?

Now nobody lives well (except a tiny few), its dangerous for everyone, the government is crap, the economy is crap, the murder rate is sky high, the AIDs rate is sky high....ect.

You cannot seriously tell me South Africa wasnt a better nation back then.

In the old days all that was confined to the townships. Now whitey has to smell the crap he created.

In the old days all that was confined to the townships. Now whitey has to smell the crap he created.
Ah, I see...so Whitey invented corruption, high murder and AIDs rates, did he?:rolleyes:

Repeatedly claiming it was illegal won't magically make it true. In a Roman province the only law that mattered was Roman law, which meant if you weren't a Roman citizen, and especially if you were revolting as well as belonging to a religion which didn't recognise the divinity of the Emperor, then they could do pretty much whatever they wanted to you. Don't like it? Blame the Jewish Kings that invited the Romans in in the first place.
And in the present world, U.N. resolutions are supposed to be higher than the complaints of arab nations...so I fail to see your point.

And in the present world, U.N. resolutions are supposed to be higher than the complaints of arab nations...so I fail to see your point.
I still find it ridiculous that the US can veto its way out of Israel's problems. It cheeses me off, one might say.