NationStates Jolt Archive

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.

So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.

Who wrote Romans?

Paul.

Who should Christians follow?

Christ.

Who was Christ?

Not Paul.



I assume you get the idea.

Very good point! I agree totally.

This is why its time for people to find a new religion

Troll says what?

Pardon?

God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH)
Wait a minute. Isn't god male?

...:eek:

Hell, I'll raise you one: I'm sick of the Bible altogether.

har har har
HeteroAmerica is totally gay for Jesus


:rolleyes:

be glad that i never meet you in real life, :upyours:

i am an openly gay man, and i am so fucking sick of you bible breathers telling me that i should go die.... "heteroamerica" people like you make me want to go on a massive killing spree.:sniper:

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.
Amen...

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.
Damn straight.

Did all the hate sites close or something? It seems like we've gotten more than out fair share of biggiots as of late.

Troll says what?

Here let me help.

*turns on troll translator*

Ok ok ok.

Basically,

I am sick of gay people interpreting the Bible that is different from our interpretations of the Bible!

:p

Romans 1:26

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts

So therefore god made gays.

Also, you are henceforth to be referred to as a Paulian.

That tired, old, apparently-clever-to-people-residing-in-areas-that-just-got-electricity line about 'Steve' makes me want to projectile vomit over the already-bilious OP.

*proceeds to do just that*

...No.

Two verses in the Bible are not going to change gay people. Guess who the Bible was written by? MEN. Why? 2000 years ago in a homosexual relationships, somebody would be treated as a woman, which was very degrading in those times. (And no, the Bible does not condone sexism either, did Jesus discriminate against Mary Magdalene?)

And Jesus did say in one verse that it didn't matter if you were male or female or straight or gay, we're all one in Him. I think it's in Romans too.


And by the way, yes, God did create Adam and Eve. Then when mankind evolved, He created another Adam and created Steve too. It just wasn't in the Bible.

And if homosexuality is a human-only choice, how are animals gay, hmm? Something tells me that God didn't intend for homosexuality to be a sin.

*munches on popcorn*

Oh, wait, don't feed the troll.

*hides popcorn, but continues to munch on it*

Did all the hate sites close or something? It seems like we've gotten more than out fair share of biggiots as of late.
No, school is out in the Bible Belt and they've been given their summer assigment from Fred Phelps.

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.

Right on....

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

Oh yeah, and that "GFLH" is being just as much of a sinner by judging the homosexual. Straight from CHRIST's mouth; "judge not lest ye be judged". If I was a Christian and I had the choice between following the words of Jesus and following the words of Paul, I know which I'd pick.

God rejects those false idolterers who put others before his son.

God regects you.

an interpretation is just that, an interpretation.

You read it your way, others read it theirs.


Who really cares?


other than HeteroAmerica obviously

How 'bout that Internet?

Wait a minute. Isn't god male?

...:eek:

No, God has no gender. He is likened to a father, and the pronoun "He" is used when refering to Him, and Jesus was male, but as an omnipotent and omnipresent being/energy/force/whatever, He is genderless.

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.

So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.
Who gives a damn? Once you can prove the Bible is factual, then we can talk. Otherwise you are just using a book to justify hate.

Note: I am a Christian!

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.

So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.

Not just another Gay Discussion topic? Yeah right. Sure looks like it to me.

"God-Fearing/Loving Hetero" You mean Gay-Fearing/Loathing Hetero? ::eyeroll::

Who wrote Romans?

Paul.

Who should Christians follow?

Christ.

Who was Christ?

Not Paul.



I assume you get the idea.

But waitwaitwait! Paul was an apostle of Jesus and followed him and worshipped him so anything he says Christ must agree with, yah?

a truly infinite being would be without opinions as well, for example opinions on homosexuals.

Given that people say God has a stance on homosexuals, they are limiting god, therefor - he is not really god

a truly infinite being would be without opinions as well, for example opinions on homosexuals.

Given that people say God has a stance on homosexuals, they are limiting god, therefor - he is not really god
That's ridiculous. Quit insulting my religion.

Trolls die hard around here, so a few jabs shouldn't encourage any more than everyone else is.

An important question: sure, a sinner is a sinner. Where does Jesus say to burn sinners?

God regects you.

God rejects no one. You yourself are judgeing right now, so how can you get on his case about judgeing?

Who gives a damn? Once you can prove the Bible is factual, then we can talk. Otherwise you are just using a book to justify hate.

Note: I am a Christian!
There are 2 types of Christians in the world; those who follow the Bible silently and those who preach loudly ignoring their immoral behaviour.

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.
Amen.

That's ridiculous. Quit insulting my religion.

No ,its logic.

If logic insults you, then it is your problem. I have not said anything dregotory, I have simply stated an opinion.
Me holding this opinion is no more offensive than you rejecting it

Romans 1:26

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts

So therefore god made gays.

Also, you are henceforth to be referred to as a Paulian.

I thought Pauly Shore was gay?

I'm sick of misguided pseudoChristians misusing the Bible to justify their hatred.
Fixed. It's not humanity's place to judge. Treat gay people no better or worse then the others you meet, for they are God's children too. *Waits to be killed by a radical group*

God rejects no one. You yourself are judgeing right now, so how can you get on his case about judgeing?
While the OP is a pillock, Nadkor isn't. God apparently doesn't have any standards in this regard.

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.
Amen.
Is there an echo in here?

I think the real question is :

Does God play Nationstates?

But waitwaitwait! Paul was an apostle of Jesus and followed him and worshipped him so anything he says Christ must agree with, yah?
Let's see...

John
Matthew
Simon Peter
Andrew
James
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
The other James
Simon
Thaddaeus
Judas

Nope, no Paul.

Keep it up Fundie. The social war you want so badly is about to come down on your head. Even mainstream christians are lining up to kick your asses. Add to that people of every other religion, atheists, pantheists and deists, gays, lesbians, bi-ssexuals, a-sexuals and quasi-sexuals, and you can expect a most sound ass whipping. Then finally, after all of the fundies are DEAD AS FUCK we can have a bit of peace.

There are 2 types of Christians in the world; those who follow the Bible silently and those who preach loudly ignoring their immoral behaviour.
I am proud to be one of the former.

Not just another Gay Discussion topic? Yeah right. Sure looks like it to me.

"God-Fearing/Loving Hetero" You mean Gay-Fearing/Loathing Hetero? ::eyeroll::

O stop it, You're being as trollish as him.


An important question: sure, a sinner is a sinner. Where does Jesus say to burn sinners?

Did the OP? No.

Fixed. It's not humanity's place to judge. Treat gay people no better or worse then the others you meet, for they are God's children too. *Waits to be killed by a radical group*

I like this one :)

But waitwaitwait! Paul was an apostle of Jesus and followed him and worshipped him so anything he says Christ must agree with, yah?

No he wasn't.

Paul persecuted Christians in Jesus's lifetime, if we are to believe the man himself.

He never followed, worshipped, spoke to Jesus himself, or ever got any basis from Jesus for his later theological bullshit.

The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.

:rolleyes:
Then who the fuck created Steve? :confused:

No ,its logic.

If logic insults you, then it is your problem. I have not said anything dregotory, I have simply stated an opinion.
Me holding this opinion is no more offensive than you rejecting it
My apologies. You don't know me yet to know I was being incredibly sarcastic there. I am, in fact, a flaming athiest, and agree with you completely. I simply feel like playing the other side to amuse myself.
Your opinion is what is derogatory. God hates gays. We all know that. Why can't people accept that?

I think the real question is :

Does God play Nationstates?
Of course I do. :D

Then who the fuck created Steve? :confused:

Eve got a sex change shortly after Adam came out.

No, school is out in the Bible Belt and they've been given their summer assigment from Fred Phelps.
Oh is that what happened?

Any case I think this is a clear case of trolling/flamebaiting. The OP seems to have disappeard anyway.

[COLO0R="White"]My apologies. You don't know me yet to know I was being incredibly sarcastic there. I am, in fact, a flaming athiest, and agree with you completely. I simply feel like playing the other side to amuse myself.[/COLOR]
Your opinion is what is derogatory. God hates gays. We all know that. Why can't people accept that?
Because I decreed otherwise; I am God and I hate little minded bigots. I don't hate gays. If I hated gays, I would've never made them in the first place.

I didn't mean to imply that all Christians are like that, so i apologize if i offended any decent, good Christians out there. I just wanted to counter his statement with a direct one of my own.

O stop it, You're being as trollish as him.

Well, that's the first time I have been referred to as trollish. I was just trying to point out that him stating that he is god-fearing and loving was simply not the case. How am I being trollish?? Honestly?

Keep it up Fundie. The social war you want so badly is about to come down on your head. Even mainstream christians are lining up to kick your asses. Add to that people of every other religion, atheists, pantheists and deists, gays, lesbians, bi-ssexuals, a-sexuals and quasi-sexuals, and you can expect a most sound ass whipping. Then finally, after all of the fundies are DEAD AS FUCK we can have a bit of peace.
Chill out. Letting these people get to you is what got me banned for three days.

Your opinion is what is derogatory. God hates gays. We all know that. Why can't people accept that?

lol it's a hard knock life

Keep it up Fundie. The social war you want so badly is about to come down on your head. Even mainstream christians are lining up to kick your asses. Add to that people of every other religion, atheists, pantheists and deists, gays, lesbians, bi-ssexuals, a-sexuals and quasi-sexuals, and you can expect a most sound ass whipping. Then finally, after all of the fundies are DEAD AS FUCK we can have a bit of peace.


How the can you get on his case about being hateful when this post is the most hateful thing that's been posted yet?

You are just as bad as those you hate, responding with anger and hate to those who you don't agree with.

Dis he say "burn teh gays!" or "I hate gay!"? No. He was just expressing an opinion, which he is free to have. Personally, I think your hate here is uncalled for.

Who gives a damn? Once you can prove the Bible is factual, then we can talk. Otherwise you are just using a book to justify hate.

Note: I am a Christian!

Hate? When the *%#! did i EVER say the word HATE? Hmm?
Second of all: Any devout christian (One who studies the Bible and does not doubt its truth) will tell you that all of the writers in the Bible were either God or INSPIRED by God, i.e. While said words may have not come out of God's mouth, he certainly had a hand in it. I do not hate gay people, I hate homosexuality. Go ahead, please. Twist my words as you may. I HATE HOMOSEXUALITY. It is a perversion of the God-intended relationship between MAN and WOMAN. I have not once said, "I hate gay people and you should all die because I hate you."
Jees...2 pages in 5 minutes, and probably more as I write this.

truly infinite being would be without opinions as well, for example opinions on homosexuals.

Given that people say God has a stance on homosexuals, they are limiting god, therefor - he is not really god

People cannot limit God. Period. Said people are idiots, and are limiting themselves.

-snip-
Alright, I'll bite. According to Christians, aren't we all sinners? So, even if the Jesus himself said, "Fags are sinners," (which seems quite out of character) how does that put gays on a different boat from everyone else?

No, God has no gender. He is likened to a father, and the pronoun "He" is used when refering to Him, and Jesus was male, but as an omnipotent and omnipresent being/energy/force/whatever, He is genderless.
How boring. What Christianity needs is some of those horny Hindu-Gods. Or Zeus.

In fact, Zeus probably wouldn't mind some hot all-male action...

Why do they loudest bigots come out when my Holy Inbox is full? Damnit... too many little maggots to smite and not enough time. Where's Michael?

As a devout Seussist, I believe the only true divine text is "In A People House". And according to my sect's interpretation of this divine holy book, which is the only righteous interpretation, you sir are an asshole.

Plus my gay friend gives me advice on what to wear on dates. Nobody who gets me laid can be a sinner.

In fact, Zeus probably wouldn't mind some hot all-male action...

All we need is Pan...

Because I decreed otherwise; I am God and I hate little minded bigots. I don't hate gays. If I hated gays, I would've never made them in the first place.
Heretic!

...

Ah, screw this. It's not as fun when everyone knows I'm not actually a stupid fundie.

Plus my gay friend gives me advice on what to wear on dates. Nobody who gets me laid can be a sinner.
Of course your friend isn't a sinner.

I made some people gay because I forgot to include a feature in men that by default gave them fashion sense. I created the gay at the last minute to make up for this.

Plus my gay friend gives me advice on what to wear on dates. Nobody who gets me laid can be a sinner.
But sex is evil! God said so, right when he stated that humanity was to have as much sex as possible!

Hate? When the *%#! did i EVER say the word HATE? Hmm?
Second of all: Any devout christian (One who studies the Bible and does not doubt its truth) will tell you that all of the writers in the Bible were either God or INSPIRED by God, i.e. While said words may have not come out of God's mouth, he certainly had a hand in it. I do not hate gay people, I hate homosexuality. Go ahead, please. Twist my words as you may. I HATE HOMOSEXUALITY. It is a perversion of the God-intended relationship between MAN and WOMAN. I have not once said, "I hate gay people and you should all die because I hate you."
Jees...2 pages in 5 minutes, and probably more as I write this.



People cannot limit God. Period. Said people are idiots, and are limiting themselves.
Uhhuh. What if you're wrong, and God is gay? What then, lousy hetero? What then? Want to make another Adam and Steve crack? :p

Seriously, think. Paul never knew Jesus. Paul was not an apostle. Paul was just a guy who wanted to get on the action late. His words mean nothing.

I'm a freethinker Christian, don't use your fundie crap on me.

People cannot limit God. Period. Said people are idiots, and are limiting themselves.

Then are the people inspired by God idiots? as the bible does limit god.

When I write I am inspired by my political and religious views... that does not mean I am a Buddhist prophet, or the living incarnation of the Green Party.

Inspired by does not = Word Of.

Humans are limited, of course, so we cannot comprehend a deity that is meant to be infinite. So we should take the bible with a pinch (or perhaps a pillar) of salt

Well, that's the first time I have been referred to as trollish. I was just trying to point out that him stating that he is god-fearing and loving was simply not the case. How am I being trollish?? Honestly?

How do you know he is no God-fearing and -loving?

Also, you implied that he hates gay people. Which is not the case.

You basically made up what you thought about his personality, and insulted him with it (by implying that he is not God-fearing and that he hates homosexuals). Which I concider quite trollish.

Did the OP? No.


Burning was an exagerration. The point was, he's saying the "you're supposed to tolerate" argument doesn't work because they're sinners, I'm saying that there isn't any reason to not tolerate sinners.

Uhhuh. What if you're wrong, and God is gay? What then, lousy hetero? What then? Want to make another Adam and Steve crack? :p

Seriously, think. Paul never knew Jesus. Paul was not an apostle. Paul was just a guy who wanted to get on the action late. His words mean nothing.

I'm a freethinker Christian, don't use your fundie crap on me.
If God is real--I'm not saying he is--then God loves porn and chocolate. Oh, and all forms of sex. God loves that which gives people pleasure. At least, that would make more sense than the God fundies try to pass on us.

But then, I'm an athiest, so what do I know?

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.

So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Pop quiz: Who said that?

Uhhuh. What if you're wrong, and God is gay? What then, lousy hetero? What then? Want to make another Adam and Steve crack? :p
No, I'm neither heterosexual nor homosexual, though, I get my kicks from watchin' Adam and Steve doin' it in the hot tub. You know, I brought them up to heaven in the form of hot anime guys.

Eve oversees the 72-virgin program, though, we've seen very few candidates worthy of it...

God rejects no one. You yourself are judgeing right now, so how can you get on his case about judgeing?

Well, I'm not a Christian, so I don't show myself to be a hypocrite by pretending to follow Jesus's teachings about judging while regularly breaking them, but only when it suits me. That's what I'm calling him on.

As for rejection...

The OP is advocating putting the words of Paul above the words of Jesus. Surely that borders on putting another before God, if Jesus really is his son.

As God himself says (Exodus 20:5 ) he is a jealous God. Jealousy can often lead to rejection.

And I would think it's fair to say that breaking God's most fundamental laws could lead to him rejecting you.

Hate? When the *%#! did i EVER say the word HATE? Hmm?
Second of all: Any devout christian (One who studies the Bible and does not doubt its truth) will tell you that all of the writers in the Bible were either God or INSPIRED by God, i.e. While said words may have not come out of God's mouth, he certainly had a hand in it. I do not hate gay people, I hate homosexuality. Go ahead, please. Twist my words as you may. I HATE HOMOSEXUALITY. It is a perversion of the God-intended relationship between MAN and WOMAN. I have not once said, "I hate gay people and you should all die because I hate you."
Jees...2 pages in 5 minutes, and probably more as I write this.



People cannot limit God. Period. Said people are idiots, and are limiting themselves.

No kid, that's Islam.

*Ahem*

Matthew 7:2-3
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Pop quiz: Who said that?
Jesus did. Though he did so after hearing it through his ear piece. He needed advice...

Jesus did. Though he did so after hearing it through his ear piece. He needed advice...
I so shouldn't find that funny, yet I do...

Listen, I have to go now, and you all aye typing responces so quickly, patting each other on the back and all, it's hard to keep up, so rather then try to respond to each post, I will say:

Stop making generalizations

Stop trying to put words into his mouth

Stop responding to (percieved) hate with hate, and then proclaming how morally superior you are.

He never said he hated gay people, he simply said that he wishes gay people would stop acting like the Bible justifies their homosexuality, because it does not. Nor does it say to hate them.

I'll be back latter tonight. Untill then, peace

But waitwaitwait! Paul was an apostle of Jesus and followed him and worshipped him so anything he says Christ must agree with, yah?

That was a joke, right? (sorry, I'm not exactly sure)

*Ahem*

Matthew 7:2-3
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Probably my favorite Bible quote outside of SOS.

My apologies. You don't know me yet to know I was being incredibly sarcastic there. I am, in fact, a flaming athiest, and agree with you completely. I simply feel like playing the other side to amuse myself.
Your opinion is what is derogatory. God hates gays. We all know that. Why can't people accept that?

1 JOHN 3:18
18 My children, our love should not be just words and talk; it must be true love, which shows itself in action.

1 JOHN 4:7
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Whoever loves is a child of God and knows God.


Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Where does it say in the bible He hates gays? It says that homosexuality is a sin; it does not say he hates gays. It does not say it is a greater sin than any other sin, either.

The Bible says that we are all sinners, all the way back from Adam, so people who claim to be Christian would do well to remember that NONE of us are without sin in God's eyes.

Listen, I have to go now, and you all aye typing responces so quickly, patting each other on the back and all, it's hard to keep up, so rather then try to respond to each post, I will say:

Stop making generalizations

Stop trying to put words into his mouth

Stop responding to (percieved) hate with hate, and then proclaming how morally superior you are.

He never said he hated gay people, he simply said that he wishes gay people would stop acting like the Bible justifies their homosexuality, because it does not. Nor does it say to hate them.

I'll be back latter tonight. Untill then, peace

But... but... how will we manage to be rational adults without you?

That was a joke, right? (sorry, I'm not exactly sure)
Yeah, it was. Which made my smackdown not as satisfying, but hey.

Listen, I have to go now, and you all aye typing responces so quickly, patting each other on the back and all, it's hard to keep up, so rather then try to respond to each post, I will say:

Stop making generalizations

Stop trying to put words into his mouth

Stop responding to (percieved) hate with hate, and then proclaming how morally superior you are.

He never said he hated gay people, he simply said that he wishes gay people would stop acting like the Bible justifies their homosexuality, because it does not. Nor does it say to hate them.

I'll be back latter tonight. Untill then, peace


Who gave him the right to say who could and could not interpret the bible?

He wouldn't have posted if he wasn't looking for people to respond

How do you know he is no God-fearing and -loving?

Also, you implied that he hates gay people. Which is not the case.

You basically made up what you thought about his personality, and insulted him with it (by implying that he is not God-fearing and that he hates homosexuals). Which I concider quite trollish.


I can see your point and I apologize to the OP for coming across in that way. It was not my intention. I wish I could explain WHAT exactly I meant by it, but I think that my words will only get me in further trouble. I was trying to be witty, and obviously I failed miserably at it.

I will say that it frustrates me to no end when people like the op say that they fear god and that they love the sinner. Then they hide behind whatever explanation they have to be pissed at whomever they are pissed at. Loathing the "sin" was out of line, but I still think he's afraid of them (IMESHO) I just wish I could get my words out right sometimes (the main why I have been here for two years, but have less than 100 posts under my belt)

That was a joke, right? (sorry, I'm not exactly sure)
Of course. I'm not an idiot fundie, you know.

CthulhuFhtagn: I actually did think Paul was an apostle though. I haven't done much research on Christianity. Mainly due to disinterest. Thanks for the information.

Burning was an exagerration. The point was, he's saying the "you're supposed to tolerate" argument doesn't work because they're sinners,

No he's not, he's saying that the Bible does not say homosexuality is ok

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.




I'm Catholic.

Yeah, it was. Which made my smackdown not as satisfying, but hey.

Oh it's cool, I thought it was funny and then I realized it might not be a joke (and thought it was even more funny to consider somebody would actually believe that), lol.

Listen, I have to go now, and you all aye typing responces so quickly, patting each other on the back and all, it's hard to keep up, so rather then try to respond to each post, I will say:

Stop making generalizations

Stop trying to put words into his mouth

Stop responding to (percieved) hate with hate, and then proclaming how morally superior you are.

He never said he hated gay people, he simply said that he wishes gay people would stop acting like the Bible justifies their homosexuality, because it does not. Nor does it say to hate them.

I'll be back latter tonight. Untill then, peace

Just leaving a refutation for when you get back...

The OP's example gay makes an argument that goes: doesn't the bible say we're supposed to be tolerated? By refuting that argument, the OP is, by default, making the point that gays should not be tolerated.

[QUOTE=Nadkor
The OP is advocating putting the words of Paul above the words of Jesus. Surely that borders on putting another before God, if Jesus really is his son.
[/QUOTE]

No he's not. He never said he hated gay people. He does not.

No he's not, he's saying that the Bible does not say homosexuality is ok

Um, no. You're trying to pretty up his argument and you're failing.

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.




I'm Catholic.
Christian: Believing that Christ was God/Son of God/Divinly Inspired Prophet/Etc.

You're a Christian.

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.

So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.

as a christian,former alter boy,etc.

it seems to me you are doing exactly what you accuse gays of....using the bible to fit your argument or attitude or bias.

please explain to me how someone being gay,or quoting the bible in defence of their sexual predisposition,have any impact on my,yours or anyones life for that matter.
seems to me that you have an issue with gays,i do not,i am puzzled at why it matters one wit to you or anyone for that matter,what someones sexual preference is?
it affects me or you how?

you should re read the part of love your neighbor.
i see nothing about love your neighbor unless they are gay.

i am not gay by the way,it just baffles me why it affects anyone..period,it has nothing to do with you or me.

if it is an issue at all,it is purely political in motivation..and i am conservative,but i pray the blatant use of this issue bites them on the ass like a doberman.

simple question to the op...how does some strangers sexuality affect you?and why the hell do you care if someone is gay or not?
truly baffling,and a non issue to me...but a great smokescreen for the far right weirdos,to divert attention from real substantive issues.

sorry for the long post,but puhleeze....come out of the closet or if you are truly hetero,get a grip..it is of zero impact on your life.
unless your really intolerant.

But... but... how will we manage to be rational adults without you?

You'll just have to try really really hard ;-)

Another thing: I'm not a Christian.

I'm Catholic.

But... I thought Catholics WERE Christians??

Um, no. You're trying to pretty up his argument and you're failing.


Quote to me when he said "I hate gay people"

Now my dinner is cold :(

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.




I'm Catholic.

Proof that the thread was made sarcastically!

Just leaving a refutation for when you get back...

The OP's example gay makes an argument that goes: doesn't the bible say we're supposed to be tolerated? By refuting that argument, the OP is, by default, making the point that gays should not be tolerated.
I'm still here.

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

'Nuff said.

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.

I'm Catholic.

I'm not calling you a gay hater. I'm saying that no church or creed has exclusivity when it comes to interpreting the bible.
The bible is a massive and ancient book, written by many different authors in many different times.
It is massively open to context, interpretation and the beliefs of the reader.

The born with sin thing has got to be the silliest concept I've ever heard in my life, I'm sorry. (nothing against you, I'm just not fond of Christianity)

But... I thought Catholics WERE Christians??
Jack Chick says no, and he's the greatest fundie...or worst, however you put it.

The only real problem I have with HeteroAmerica's post is that he calls homosexuality a "perversion". In my opinion, homosexuality is a sexual preference, differing only from heterosexuality or bisexuality or any other sexuality only in what the object of sexual preference is.

When I was young, I made decisions about what I did or did not do based on what I knew, in my conscious mind as well as in my gut, to be "right" or "wrong". Most people know that some things, like stealing or killing people for no apparent reason, are "wrong". Homosexuality was never something I associated with this innate "wrongness". I still do not look at it that way.

I am not really a member of any one religion; my philosophies draw from a number of different religions, but the part of me that would respect the existence of a "higher being" (the God of Chrisitanity) tells me that this higher being would not have any less love for a gay man than a straight one. Both are men, are they not? If each led an identical life, with the straight man marrying a woman and the gay man spending his life with one man, would God send the gay man to a fiery eternity simply because he is gay? I do not think so. Homosexuality is not a choice; no one wakes up and says, "I want to be gay". Homosexuality is the way some people are, not by their choosing but because biologically that is how it happened.

And I don't think God would reject anyone on the basis that they were born homosexual.

'm not a Christian.




I'm Catholic.
Funny. Christian means follower of Christ.
I'm a Catholic and definitely a Christian.

Proof that the thread was made sarcastically!
Aye.

Okay, Straughn/Ruffy/*insert name of well-known Generalite here*, you can come out from behind the curtain now.

Quote to me when he said "I hate gay people"

Now my dinner is cold :(

Where did I say he did? I didn't. Burn, strawman, burn.

Here's what he did say.

Go ahead, please. Twist my words as you may. I HATE HOMOSEXUALITY. It is a perversion of the God-intended relationship between MAN and WOMAN.

Not quite the same as just saying the Bible doesn't say homosexuality is okay. Seems like you're wrong.

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.




I'm Catholic.

Okay, I just went to dictionary.com to get a definition to throw at you, but I was too shocked by what the top one was.

Christian, Charlie. 1916-1942.

American jazz guitarist and blues singer. One of the first to amplify the guitar, he influenced its emergence as a solo instrument in jazz.

So I suppose you're not a Christian after all.

I'm still here.



'Nuff said.
Was the Bible written by God? No, it was written by men who supposdly talked to/had divine inspiration from God. Errors will be made.

But... I thought Catholics WERE Christians??
All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic. Catholicism is a variation of Christianity, including the reverence of the saints and the consumption of the Eucharist, although I do believe Orthodox Christians also consume the Eucharist, but I could be wrong.

Hillbilly.

No he's not.

Sure he is.

He tells us that one way to counter a biblical argument for homosexuality is with Romans 1:27.

Heathens!!!!!!!!11shiftplusone!1

All true Christians know that God looked down upon Earth, and threw the bible at a homofag's head, yelling "Knock it off, sinner!"

And that's how we have the Bible exactly, unaltered at all as it is today.

I thought the "I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic" thing was a joke. Zealots that don't even know the history behind their religions are so funny.

All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic. Catholicism is a variation of Christianity, including the reverence of the saints and the consumption of the Eucharist, although I do believe Orthodox Christians also consume the Eucharist, but I could be wrong.

So then you are a Christian.

Now, what language did you read the Bible in?

Given your vast study of the Bible, what common practice of Paul's day might Paul have been referring to in the passage you quoted?

a truly infinite being would be without opinions as well, for example opinions on homosexuals.

Given that people say God has a stance on homosexuals, they are limiting god, therefor - he is not really god

Point well made.

Well, the general population seems to have moved on to less angry topics. As for me, I'm leaving for tonight. if you wish, you may email me whatever you wish at DDayGames [at} g m a i l {dot] c o m

God be with you all.

All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic.

Which is in direct contradiction to your "I'm not Christian...I'm Catholic" line.

Oh, yes. Now I'm judging. Ya know, i gotta say, when people really care about something, sometimes they seem to put words into someone else's mouth. Yes, we're all sinners. Hell. We were born with it. But those who attempt to use the Bible to justify a sin are, indeed, sinning again. That's all.

From what many of you say, you seem to think I walk up to gays and say, "Hey, queerbag! You're sinning! Repent!" I do not. In fact, I pray that gay people will indeed see the wrong in their actions, especially those who attempt to use the Bible to justify it.
Another thing: I'm not a Christian.


I'm Catholic.

Then you should be even more aware of how unabsolute the bible is! Catholics add all kinds of extra stuff, and ignore significant parts with impunity. Protestantism was the "back to the bible" movement, the one that got rid of rituals the bible never describes, for example. As a Catholic, you are required to recognize the bible as non-absolute in many matters. You are encouraged by the pope, for example, to view Genesis as non-literal.

In any case, though, all this is irrelevant, because you aren't claiming the bible proves anything, merely that within its framework certain things are not proved.

On to that: Gays usually don't try to show that the bible encourages homosexuality (though it's certainly very easy to make a case for it: "Get thee behind me Satan", for example?), merely that it discourages lyching, yelling at, and praying for the repentance of gays. You don't really disprove that: Christians aren't supposed to murder, judge, meddle in others lives pharisee-style, etc. There are also arguments out there that homosexuality is not really a sin, which usually hinge on the invalidity of the very passage you quote, so your argument there is rather irrelevant.

People assume you "hate gays" because you care about the issue, and because we really don't see many people complaining as loudly about any other sin. Hating homosexuality is a bit poor an excuse...let's say I walked up to you in the street and told you I found the way you had sex with your girlfriend disgusting. Unless I hated you personally, why would I bother?

By the way, anthropologically speaking at the very least, Catholic is a type of Christian.

So then you are a Christian.

Now, what language did you read the Bible in?

Given your vast study of the Bible, what common practice of Paul's day might Paul have been referring to in the passage you quoted?

Since he's leaving, can you tell us, since that's one thing I'm not sure I know about?

be glad that i never meet you in real life, :upyours:

i am an openly gay man, and i am so fucking sick of you bible breathers telling me that i should go die.... "heteroamerica" people like you make me want to go on a massive killing spree.:sniper:
*hugs* respect to you, more power 2 you.Religion belongs NOWHERE IN POLITICS! FUCK YOU JESUS-FREAKS!

Some of you have made a good point, so how about this:
I'm not JUST Christian, I'm ALSO Catholic.

Since he's leaving, can you tell us, since that's one thing I'm not sure I know about?
Religious prostitution.

All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic. Catholicism is a variation of Christianity, including the reverence of the saints and the consumption of the Eucharist, although I do believe Orthodox Christians also consume the Eucharist, but I could be wrong.

All Catholics are xians and not all xians are catholic. Maybe. I can give some personal arguments with that one.

My point was that you said you are not Christan. You are catholic. Doesn't being catholic make you a christian (according to your argument above)?

Also, you mention consuming the Eucharist and revere the saints. I know many Protestants believe that this reverence of the saints is "worshiping" them (not saying that I feel this way... just what I have heard from others). Wouldn't this difference be due to a difference of interpretation of the word of God? Now that being said, isn't the original post of yours basically saying that only the one interpretation is the true one? How do you know for sure that yours is the correct interp? Might you be wrong?

I'm still here.


I was quoting you in that post? Really?

Some of you have made a good point, so how about this:
I'm not JUST Christian, I'm ALSO Catholic.

Much better.

But now you're taking away my proof that this thread was a joke! :eek:

Some of you have made a good point, so how about this:
I'm not JUST Christian, I'm ALSO Catholic.

How about a Catholic Xian??

*hugs* respect to you, more power 2 you.Religion belongs NOWHERE IN POLITICS! FUCK YOU JESUS-FREAKS!
Argh. The inherit incorrectness in so many of your comments make me want to stay and correct the many flaws you have made.

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.

be glad that i never meet you in real life,

i am an openly gay man, and i am so fucking sick of you bible breathers telling me that i should go die.... "heteroamerica" people like you make me want to go on a massive killing spree.
Once again, I told no one that they should go die. And I look forward to meeting you in real life, whether it be on this Earth or a realm more divine.

For all I know, the Bible's a damn joke. Written up by a buncha wise guys as a prank. Damn good one at that if it was, that'd be like.... the april fools of all time. LoL, Jesus shows up in the middle of Time Square on April 1st and yells APRIL FOOLS! GHAHAHHAHAHAHA GOTCHA BIBLE THUMPERS! and runs off in his hippy ass WV bus with his boyfriend.

I would so love to see that.

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion;..." - The Treaty of Tripoli

Argh. The inherit incorrectness in so many of your comments make me want to stay and correct the many flaws you have made.

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.


Once again, I told no one that they should go die. And I look forward to meeting you in real life, whether it be on this Earth or a realm more divine.

I think he's saying he wants to kill you man.

Since he's leaving, can you tell us, since that's one thing I'm not sure I know about?

There is a consistent message throughout Paul's letters regarding prostitution. It was eventually bastardized to be anti-sex, but Paul actually encouraged married couples to have sex for satisfaction.

In the quoted passage Paul was likely referring to the incredibly common practice of heterosexual men enjoying young male prostitutes. It's consistent with all translations I've seen as well as the fact that homosexuality isn't really mentioned in the New Testament but prostitution is found throughout. In fact, the word fornication originally comes from the fact that Romans used to take prostitutes to a place called a 'fornix'. Fornication is the practice of sex with prostitutes.

For all I know, the Bible's a damn joke. Written up by a buncha wise guys as a prank. Damn good one at that if it was, that'd be like.... the april fools of all time. LoL, Jesus shows up in the middle of Time Square on April 1st and yells APRIL FOOLS! GHAHAHHAHAHAHA GOTCHA BIBLE THUMPERS! and runs off in his hippy ass WV bus with his boyfriend.

I would so love to see that.

That and smacking down Ann Coulter.

Argh. The inherit incorrectness in so many of your comments make me want to stay and correct the many flaws you have made.

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.


Once again, I told no one that they should go die. And I look forward to meeting you in real life, whether it be on this Earth or a realm more divine.

Yep. Good ol' Christians, coming over and slaughtering er... converting the pagans.

"Here have a smallpox covered blanket."

"Erm..."

"It's good for your soul."

Anyways, ever heard of a little thing called seperation of church and state?

Religious prostitution.
Haha. I'm gonna white mine too.

Argh. The inherit incorrectness in so many of your comments make me want to stay and correct the many flaws you have made.

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.

Way to use examples from 180 and 90 years, respectively, after the US was founded to show what basis it was founded on.

Funny how I, as someone from Northern Ireland, knows more accurately the history of the US...than someone from the US.


Funny, but in light of his other posts, hardly surprising.

I'm still here.



'Nuff said.

So you're not refuting the example gay's argument? You make a straw man, and your refutation still doesn't apply? Amusing.

If you're refuting the argument, you're saying that the bible does not say that gays should be accepted, which is a position you don't defend. If you're not refuting the argument, you've got a malfunctioning straw man. Which is it?

-snip-

Oh! *stores in memory* Thanks.

For all I know, the Bible's a damn joke. Written up by a buncha wise guys as a prank. Damn good one at that if it was, that'd be like.... the april fools of all time. LoL, Jesus shows up in the middle of Time Square on April 1st and yells APRIL FOOLS! GHAHAHHAHAHAHA GOTCHA BIBLE THUMPERS! and runs off in his hippy ass WV bus with his boyfriend.

I would so love to see that.
But yet, if the Bible WERE falsified, and Jesus showed up and yelled April Fools!, then at least some parts in the Bible would have been proven true, i.e. He gave the world his only son..
This of course being if the Bible were falsified.

That being said, I truly am leaving, once again, God be with you all. I will pray for you.

Minus the whole being dead for 2000 years man, thats just a small detail. It'd still be funny.

I will pray for you.
You'd better damn not. Research has shown that praying for people correlates with a drop in survival rates during operations. I may need an operation soon.

But yet, if the Bible WERE falsified, and Jesus showed up and yelled April Fools!, then at least some parts in the Bible would have been proven true, i.e. He gave the world his only son..
This of course being if the Bible were falsified.

That being said, I truly am leaving, once again, God be with you all. I will pray for you.

I'm calling troll. Every real attempt to discuss the Bible you avoided while make obviously false claims. Whatever happened to the really good trolls from back in the day? *reminisces*

I'm Sick Of Idiots Learning How To Read.

(breathes) 3...2...1..(takes anger medication)


ok.... now that i am calm...

as ive said, i am openly gay. you wont believe how hard it is to just go though a day where i am. i am told by preists to "convert, and become strait"

BEiNG GAY IS NOT A CHOICE!

I'm calling troll. Every real attempt to discuss the Bible you avoided while make obviously false claims. Whatever happened to the really good trolls from back in the day? *reminisces*

The two greatest, of course, being Jesussaves and HerPower.

I'm calling troll. Every real attempt to discuss the Bible you avoided while make obviously false claims. Whatever happened to the really good trolls from back in the day? *reminisces*

Just read Ann Coulter. She's professional. :D

(breathes) 3...2...1..(takes anger medication)


ok.... now that i am calm...

as ive said, i am openly gay. you wont believe how hard it is to just go though a day where i am. i am told by preists to "convert, and become strait"

BEiNG GAY IS NOT A CHOICE!

Sure it is, you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex.

But yet, if the Bible WERE falsified, and Jesus showed up and yelled April Fools!, then at least some parts in the Bible would have been proven true, i.e. He gave the world his only son..
This of course being if the Bible were falsified.

That being said, I truly am leaving, once again, God be with you all. I will pray for you.

Prove that He gave the world his only son, then we'll talk.

I'm calling troll. Every real attempt to discuss the Bible you avoided while make obviously false claims. Whatever happened to the really good trolls from back in the day? *reminisces*

Oh, give him time. He's gotten off to a slow start, but with enough time we might have ourselves a spiritual successor to Jessusaves. This thread alone shows his promise, I've laughed my ass off reading some of his posts.

Here, I'll stick some popcorn in the microwave. Who wants some?

OK, just to be ABSOLUTELY clear on this...this is not just another Gay Discussion topic. This is about gays (mis)using the Bible to justify their perversion.

Let's start with one argument

GAY: Didn't Jesus teach acceptance of all peoples?
God-Fearing/Loving Hetero (GFLH): Yes, BUT, regardless, a sinner is still a sinner, whether or not he is accepted by everyone

GAY: Sin? What sin?
GFLH: Romans 1:27

For anyone that doesn't have a Bible around (which may be many), Romans 1:27 reads as follows:
...In the same way men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves punishment which they deserve for their wrongdoing.
It actually says.....
"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly (This could easily be about knitting or discussing knitting patterns), and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
So the next time you hear a GLBT person quote the Bible and try to justify themselves, you may want to point them to yet another verse: Genesis 1:27-28. The creation of Adam and Eve. NOT Steve.So how did Cain and Abel replenish the earth then?Here's a more appropriate quote to define hate merchants like you....
"Rom 1:21
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Before anyone starts quoting the bible AGAIN (Leviticus anyone) ...
Gay Marriage! Let's talk about that. It ties into law too
And everyone will be so nice and reasonable about it too :p

Sure it is, you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex.
So being gay is a momentary act?

Unfortunately for you, New Deleronix, like it or not, my entire Nation (The nation which I reside in, not my NS Nation) was founded upon the Christian faith, hence, In GOD We Trust, one nation under GOD, etc.

Our founding fathers were not Christian. Nor did they found the nation on religious principals.

Some quotes from some of the founders themselves. Read them and then tell me that they were xian:

Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

(SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short)

***

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

***

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

***

John Adams:
Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

***

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

***

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

(the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11)

***

Thomas Paine:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

***

James Madison:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

***

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

(about state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation)

Sure it is, you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex.

yes that is a choice, but attraction is not. if you want to dissagre, ill find a bunch of guys that you can make yourself attracted to.

Oh, give him time. He's gotten off to a slow start, but with enough time we might have ourselves a spiritual successor to Jessusaves. This thread alone shows his promise, I've laughed my ass off reading some of his posts.

Here, I'll stick some popcorn in the microwave. Who wants some?

Oh, I've already got mine, I just hid it from the troll to stop from feeding it. Of course, since it's gone to bed, I guess I can bring the popcorn back. *reveals popcorn*

So being gay is a momentary act?

Yeah, like being alive. You're only alive because you choose to breathe.

Sure it is, you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex.

Why are you poking that balloon with a pin?

yes that is a choice, but attraction is not. if you want to dissagre, ill find a bunch of guys that you can make yourself attracted to.

I'm sure I could manage that just fine.

*eyes signature*

Yeah, like being alive. You're only alive because you choose to breathe.
Every time I hold my breath I die. Then I remember to breath again. Living is fun.

I'm sick of Christians using the Bible to justify their hatred.

Gayness is not normal. I'm also an agnostic. It's just not the christians saying that gays are abnormal. I also don't mean to offend anyone, it's just not the way life is supposed to work.

Every time I hold my breath I die. Then I remember to breath again. Living is fun.

Yeah, it's just like being gay.

You're gay because you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex.

You're alive because you choose to breathe.

Homophobes often advocate just not choosing to have sex with a member of the same sex.

I'm sure you can see where this is going.

Gayness is not normal. I'm also an agnostic. It's just not the christians saying that gays are abnormal. I also don't mean to offend anyone, it's just not the way life is supposed to work.

Based on what?

You know, I just started thinking about the title. He's sick of gays using the Bible.

........

So, he's sick of gay Christians? Gays should be banned from being Christian?

Really, it's actually a good thing that he had the first post, if you think about it too hard... :headbang: Stop thinking, me!

Gayness is not normal. I'm also an agnostic. It's just not the christians saying that gays are abnormal. I also don't mean to offend anyone, it's just not the way life is supposed to work.

It's also not "normal" to eat fruit and vegetables not grown in your immediate area, or to not eat meat freshly killed.

It's also not "normal" to live in a house, drive a car, use a computer...

You don't see any wild animals doing the above.

It's just not the way life is supposed to work.

You're right, being gay is not the norm because heterosexuality is more common, but it not being the norm doesn't make it bad. Down's Syndrome isn't the norm either, mental illness isn't the norm, believing in Zoroastrianism isn't the norm, but none of those things are bad.

Very good point! I agree totally.

This is why its time for people to find a new religion

Why? Why does anyone NEED a religion? Its just a control device.

No thanks, i'll stick to my free will.

Will you go to hell forever if you are gay?
Will god hate you for doing it or will he forgive you?

nadkor, do you not believe you are gay unless you are having sex with a man?

i have never had sex with a man or a woman, but i know i am gay due to attraction. and i cannot choose my attraction.

Normal people are perpendicular to the plane.
More seriously, anyone who uses the concept 'normal' as if it justifies their particular beliefs is probably too thick to be worth talking too.
The very word itself sounds like a braying donkey. The day I turn normal, someone please kill me.

Gayness is not normal. I'm also an agnostic. It's just not the christians saying that gays are abnormal. I also don't mean to offend anyone, it's just not the way life is supposed to work.

And here I was thinking Agnostics like myself were tolerant and thoughtful. :rolleyes: Not true in your case through.

I'm glad your the one to point out how life is supposed to work...you know, since you know so much about the meaning of life. With your pathetic logic, you could continue and say that being left handed is not normal, or having attached ear lobes are not normal. Point is, just because the gays are a minority doesn't mean that it's not normal It's normal for them, because it wasn't a choice. Abnormalities, regardless if it actually is or not should still have tolerance it deserves to have.

Normal people are perpendicular to the plane.

:fluffle:

Just leaving a refutation for when you get back...

The OP's example gay makes an argument that goes: doesn't the bible say we're supposed to be tolerated? By refuting that argument, the OP is, by default, making the point that gays should not be tolerated.

He worded it strangly, but what he ment wasn't that gays shouldn't be accepted. He believes they should. But it's still a sin according to the Bible, is all he's saying.

He IMed me and we've been talking, by the by.

I can see your point and I apologize to the OP for coming across in that way. It was not my intention. I wish I could explain WHAT exactly I meant by it, but I think that my words will only get me in further trouble. I was trying to be witty, and obviously I failed miserably at it.

I will say that it frustrates me to no end when people like the op say that they fear god and that they love the sinner. Then they hide behind whatever explanation they have to be pissed at whomever they are pissed at. Loathing the "sin" was out of line, but I still think he's afraid of them (IMESHO) I just wish I could get my words out right sometimes (the main why I have been here for two years, but have less than 100 posts under my belt)

I agree, I just think that you (and everyone else) is projecting what they don't like about certain Christains onto this particular guy who may not have those qualities.

Glad we could come to an understanding, thought :)

It's not that it wasn't witty, it's that it put words into his mouth that weren't there.

Not quite the same as just saying the Bible doesn't say homosexuality is okay. Seems like you're wrong.

Where in that does he day gays shouldn't be accepted? He says it's a sin weather they're accepted or not. So all he's saying is that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. You all added all that hate crap. He's said himself that he doesn't hate gays, that he doesn't think they shouldn't be accepted, which are the words alot of people are putting in his mouth.

He tells us that one way to counter a biblical argument for homosexuality is with Romans 1:27.

There is no Biblical argument for homosexuality, only for loving and accepting everyone. And he never refutes that you should love and accept everyone.

So no, he's not countering a Biblical argument, he's showing that the one people use is false.

Okay, I just went to dictionary.com to get a definition to throw at you, but I was too shocked by what the top one was.

Christian, Charlie. 1916-1942.

American jazz guitarist and blues singer. One of the first to amplify the guitar, he influenced its emergence as a solo instrument in jazz.

So I suppose you're not a Christian after all.


Haha, nice. Some much needed merryment :)

Guffaws all around!

Hillbilly.

Conclusion-jumper, biggot, and scalliwag

All Catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are Catholic. Catholicism is a variation of Christianity, including the reverence of the saints and the consumption of the Eucharist, although I do believe Orthodox Christians also consume the Eucharist, but I could be wrong.


We Greeks do indeed take Holy Communion.

nadkor, do you not believe you are gay unless you are having sex with a man?

Well, lesbians are clearly gay, so of course you can be gay without having sex with a man.

You just have to be a woman having sex with a woman.

i have never had sex with a man or a woman, but i know i am gay due to attraction. and i cannot choose my attraction.

How do you know when you've never tried?

Wow, I have not posted on these forums in ages.

I just want to say one thing:

Any religion, government, and/or body of leadership that subdues and supresses any natural or semi-natural urge is defying and mutilating the most sacred of gifts given by God: that of freewill.

WATCH ME DISPROVE YOUR ENTIRE FAITH

Are you ready? GOOD....

a lil something known as the omnipotence paradox states

According to the bible, God is all-powerful, that is IMPOSSIBLE... because OF THE QUESTION i'M ABOUT TO POSE TO YOU
Is god so powerful he can make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?


Boom suckah, take that!

*hugs* respect to you, more power 2 you.Religion belongs NOWHERE IN POLITICS! FUCK YOU JESUS-FREAKS!

That's a brilliant argument. Well played. Apparently profanity and name calling substitute for having a well-thought out opinion.

There is no Biblical argument for homosexuality, only for loving and accepting everyone. And he never refutes that you should love and accept everyone.

So no, he's not countering a Biblical argument, he's showing that the one people use is false.


So declaring an argument to be false and using a quote to back you up isn't countering?

Next time you change the definition of a word unilaterally, feel free to let the rest of us know.

Wait wait wait..

Homosex.

Where in that does he day gays shouldn't be accepted? He says it's a sin weather they're accepted or not. So all he's saying is that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. You all added all that hate crap. He's said himself that he doesn't hate gays, that he doesn't think they shouldn't be accepted, which are the words alot of people are putting in his mouth.

I did? Where? Please quote me. Oh, you mean, you're talking about what other people said who are not me but happen to also have a problem with this poster? I don't see why I should care. You are trying to pretty up his statements. He's wrong about the Bible and he's not just saying what you're saying. He's passing judgement and he's saying he HATES homosexuality. Not dislikes. Not thinks it's wrong. HATES.

How do you know when you've never tried?


simple, i am turned off by the female body, but turned on by the male body.

WATCH ME DISPROVE YOUR ENTIRE FAITH

Are you ready? GOOD....

a lil something known as the omnipotence paradox states

According to the bible, God is all-powerful, that is IMPOSSIBLE... because OF THE QUESTION i'M ABOUT TO POSE TO YOU
Is god so powerful he can make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?


Boom suckah, take that!

That's neither here nor there.

But, I had holding that point a few weeks ago in another topic and the only reason I failed to win the debate was due to a lame counter point, so I left. The point was that the supposed God doesn't have barriers and my logic can't understand it. Typical cop out.

I am, emphatically, NOT gay. Neither, however, am I a blind ultra-conservative. I have no intention of ever looking for or tagging this thread, so it's unlikely your comments will affect me, or your debates on whether I'm right or wrong. A few things though. I just want to express myself here.

1. Being straight, I'm not one to judge, but surely SOME people choose to be gay and others are born that way. I believe that people can be abused and choose to be gay, and I also believe that people can be born gay and simply follow their natural preferences. However, it occurs to me that if genetic engineering of humans is allowed, then people who are born gay (There is likely a "gay gene" if they are born that way) can be genetically manipulated in utero to force them to be born heterosexuals. I'm against that, myself, but it's something to watch out for. Let's hope it doesn't go that far.

2. There most certainly are Bible verses that prohibit gay activity. I can't bring the exact content to mind, but in the Torah (Leviticus, I think...), bestiality (which isn't gay, I know) and cross-dressing at least are forbidden, under pain of death. But they're Old Testament, not New. Meaning they have little to do with Christianity and Jesus. And anyone can present information from the Bible (or from anything), and make a convincing argument for any given thing. I can give an argument for paganism rooted in the Bible. So obviously pro-gays and anti-gays can both support their opinions with the Bible. The Bible isn't the Universal Guide to Morality, folks.

3. PLEASE! The "can he lift the stone" thing is bull. As is you saying it disproves the entire faith. For starters, God defies human logic. It's incredibly arrogant of humanity to try to reduce God to logic, or even to labels like "omnipotent". God is above omnipotence. And above you. Also, Freudotopia solved this one, I give credit to him: "God can make a stone that's too heavy for him to lift, and he lifts it anyway." A perfect demonstration of how God is above your reasoning. Think about it with your oh-so-invincible human logic. You accept that God is omnipotent in order to pose that conundrum; wouldn't an omnipotent being be beyond your comprehension? Besides, I think it says somewhere in the Bible that God is love. Logic and love don't fit together well.

4. Why would anybody want to destroy/tear down/discredit Christianity? Many more people have been inspired by it and believed honestly in it than have been killed for it. Even had they not, people are going to be killed no matter what the justification is. Tomorrow I may be shot down in the street by the Pope. I still wouldn't hate all Christians and the Christian institution. That's like banning the sport of wrestling because of the deaths that have occurred in it.

WATCH ME DISPROVE YOUR ENTIRE FAITH

Are you ready? GOOD....

a lil something known as the omnipotence paradox states

According to the bible, God is all-powerful, that is IMPOSSIBLE... because OF THE QUESTION i'M ABOUT TO POSE TO YOU
Is god so powerful he can make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?


Boom suckah, take that!

Yes, but He is so powerful that He can lift it anyway.

How's that for a response! :p

simple, i am turned off by the female body, but turned on by the male body.

Ah, you never know until you've tried.

WATCH ME DISPROVE YOUR ENTIRE FAITH

Are you ready? GOOD....

a lil something known as the omnipotence paradox states

According to the bible, God is all-powerful, that is IMPOSSIBLE... because OF THE QUESTION i'M ABOUT TO POSE TO YOU
Is god so powerful he can make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?


Boom suckah, take that!

Ha. I love when people make this argument like it hasn't been utterly destroyed repeatedly since, oh, I don't know, five minutes after the first person ever uttered it. Go back to swearing and namecalling. Your argument was more compelling when that's all it contained.

You've exposed the limits of logic, not God.

Ah, you never know until you've tried.

Sorry, but you have alot to learn. Attraction is the first step. If he's turned off, no attraction exists so there is no point to learn.

WATCH ME DISPROVE YOUR ENTIRE FAITH

Are you ready? GOOD....

a lil something known as the omnipotence paradox states

According to the bible, God is all-powerful, that is IMPOSSIBLE... because OF THE QUESTION i'M ABOUT TO POSE TO YOU
Is god so powerful he can make a stone so heavy he cannot lift it?


Boom suckah, take that!

Nice paradox. Like all paradoxes there is no yes/no answer. The paradox can be refuted, rendering an answer unnecessary. Are YOU ready ...

God could make a rock too big too lift. He could lift any rock, no matter how big. Both answers are true, showing that free will is a huge deal when you're omnipotent!

Ha ha.

simple, i am turned off by the female body, but turned on by the male body.

So you're more turned on by a body with no curves, no waist and a dangly penis than a curvy, soft, silky, tight-fitting female?

I'll never understand gays.

nadkor, do you not believe you are gay unless you are having sex with a man?

If Nadkor was having sex with a man, she certainly wouldn't be gay.

It's also not "normal" to eat fruit and vegetables not grown in your immediate area, or to not eat meat freshly killed.

It's also not "normal" to live in a house, drive a car, use a computer...

You don't see any wild animals doing the above.

It's just not the way life is supposed to work.

By the by, homosexuality is existant in nature, in animals.

How do you know when you've never tried?

You know who you're attracted to.


So declaring an argument to be false and using a quote to back you up isn't countering?

Next time you change the definition of a word unilaterally, feel free to let the rest of us know.


What he was countering was in fact the argument that there is a Bibical argument that homosexuality is ok is false.

With () for ease of reading:

What he was countering was in fact the argument that (there is a Bibical argument that homosexuality is ok) is false.

So you're more turned on by a body with no curves, no waist and a dangly penis than a curvy, soft, silky, tight-fitting female?

I'll never understand gays.
You must be shocked every time a woman decides to go out with you.

Sorry, but you have alot to learn. Attraction is the first step. If he's turned off, no attraction exists so there is no point to learn.

How does he know he won't be attracted for the first time until he tries?


And I like the irony of someone with 170 posts and no prior knowledge of my posting history, my sexuality, or my previous posts about sexuality telling me I have a lot to learn.

Will you go to hell forever if you are gay?
Will god hate you for doing it or will he forgive you?

I suggest you read up. Christians know the answers to both.

According to the Bible, you go to hell if you sin and do not repent of the sin. If you repent, all's forgiven.

If all's forgiven, then obviously God will not hate you for sinning.

How does he know he won't be attracted for the first time until he tries?


And I like the irony of someone with 170 posts and no prior knowledge of my posting history, my sexuality, or my previous posts about sexuality telling me I have a lot to learn.

That's why I asked you why you're doing that.

By the by, homosexuality is existant in nature, in animals.

...I know. That was one of the points of my post. Called sarcasm. Look into it.

You know who you're attracted to.

Who you choose to tell yourself you're attracted to, and who you choose to sleep with.


With () for ease of reading:

What he was countering was in fact the argument that (there is a Bibical argument that homosexuality is ok) is false.

So he's saying that there is a biblical argument for homosexuality?

That's what you've just said.

I did? Where? Please quote me. Oh, you mean, you're talking about what other people said who are not me but happen to also have a problem with this poster? I don't see why I should care. You are trying to pretty up his statements. He's wrong about the Bible and he's not just saying what you're saying. He's passing judgement and he's saying he HATES homosexuality. Not dislikes. Not thinks it's wrong. HATES.

I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth.

He hates homosexuality.

He does not hate homosexuals.

Are we in agreement?

Once more, I'm sorry for leveling false accusations against you. I was attempting to respond to pages of posts at a time.

How does he know he won't be attracted for the first time until he tries?


And I like the irony of someone with 170 posts and no prior knowledge of my posting history, my sexuality, or my previous posts about sexuality telling me I have a lot to learn.

Oh my. How clever of you to bring in my posting count. I could careless about your posting history, sexuality, or your previous posts about sexuality. From the most recent, I can tell that you're an asshat. :rolleyes:

You have alot to learn how the actual process leading up to mating. The first thing that has to occur is attraction. Your logic says it's like mating with the ugliest,fattest person in the world just to see if you'll like it. You try new foods to like them, but something as emotional as mating you don't go off on a whim just to try it.

That's why I asked you why you're doing that.

Oh, sorry, I didn't see that post :)

Eh...boredom, mainly.

...I know. That was one of the points of my post. Called sarcasm. Look into it.

Must have read your post quickly, I didn't catch when you mentioned that.

And I was supporting you, no need to get snippy.



Who you choose to tell yourself you're attracted to, and who you choose to sleep with.

I disagree, but I'm not ganna argue with you here.




So he's saying that there is a biblical argument for homosexuality?

That's what you've just said.

No, I'm saying the opposite. Sorry for the confusing post. Take off the words "is false"

I'm sorry for putting words in your mouth.

He hates homosexuality.

He does not hate homosexuals.

Are we in agreement?

Once more, I'm sorry for leveling false accusations against you. I was attempting to respond to pages of posts at a time.

No, I won't agree to the second. I know he said that. In fact, I'm not sure he actually hates homosexuality. The arguments are a bit too easy to refute and a bit too contrived for me to buy this is a real poster. However, if he is for real, I'm not convinced he's being honest with us or himself about his issues with homosexuality.

yup this is what always happens. person makes a religious related post and imediatly becomes a flame war. the point originally made was this.

Bible says no gay relations. So the Gays using bibles to justify the homosexuality, when the bible bans it, is contradicting. and as a believer, i just wanna smack some of them. Not because i hate gays. i dont. i have nothing against homosexual people. I just dont support what they do. what they do is non of my buisness. i just think its gross and unnatural. is that wrong? to think that something that someone does is gross? if so, well.......too bad. i dont support homosexuality. and im not gonna compromise my morals to just to support your life style.

Oh my. How clever of you to bring in my posting count. I could careless about your posting history, sexuality, or your previous posts about sexuality.

To be fair, you should. It would shed a whole new light on my posts in this thread.

From the most recent, I can tell that you're an asshat. :rolleyes:

Meh, I've been called much worse.

vYou have alot to learn how the actual process leading up to mating. The first thing that has to occur is attraction. Your logic says it's like mating with the ugliest,fattest person in the world just to see if you'll like it. You try new foods to like them, but something as emotional as mating you don't go off on a whim just to try it.

Sure it is. You decide, over a period of telling yourself until you believe it (lies repeated become the truth, and all that), that you're gay, and you then choose to sleep with a member of the same sex.

yup this is what always happens. person makes a religious related post and imediatly becomes a flame war. the point originally made was this.

Bible says no gay relations. So the Gays using bibles to justify the homosexuality, when the bible bans it, is contradicting. and as a believer, i just wanna smack some of them. Not because i hate gays. i dont. i have nothing against homosexual people. I just dont support what they do. what they do is non of my buisness. i just think its gross and unnatural. is that wrong? to think that something that someone does is gross? if so, well.......too bad. i dont support homosexuality. and im not gonna compromise my morals to just to support your life style.

And they should care exactly why?

Let's see...

John
Matthew
Simon Peter
Andrew
James
Philip
Bartholomew
Thomas
The other James
Simon
Thaddaeus
Judas

Nope, no Paul.

You forgot Mary.

Must have read your post quickly, I didn't catch when you mentioned that.

And I was supporting you, no need to get snippy.

Sorry :)


I disagree, but I'm not ganna argue with you here.

Aww :(

No, I'm saying the opposite. Sorry for the confusing post. Take off the words "is false"

OK.

You must be shocked every time a woman decides to go out with you.

How does that obscure comment relate to my post?

yup this is what always happens. person makes a religious related post and imediatly becomes a flame war. the point originally made was this.

Bible says no gay relations. So the Gays using bibles to justify the homosexuality, when the bible bans it, is contradicting. and as a believer, i just wanna smack some of them. Not because i hate gays. i dont. i have nothing against homosexual people. I just dont support what they do. what they do is non of my buisness. i just think its gross and unnatural. is that wrong? to think that something that someone does is gross? if so, well.......too bad. i dont support homosexuality. and im not gonna compromise my morals to just to support your life style.
The references in the bible to homosexuality are few and questionable. You're free to believe what you want but that's the case.

How does that obscure comment relate to my post?

Because you said you can't understand how anyone can find men more attractive than women.

Oh my. How clever of you to bring in my posting count. I could careless about your posting history, sexuality, or your previous posts about sexuality. From the most recent, I can tell that you're an asshat. :rolleyes:

You have alot to learn how the actual process leading up to mating. The first thing that has to occur is attraction. Your logic says it's like mating with the ugliest,fattest person in the world just to see if you'll like it. You try new foods to like them, but something as emotional as mating you don't go off on a whim just to try it.
HAY GUYZ I CANT UNDERSTAND SARCASM!

Nadkor's a lesbian, last I checked.

How does that obscure comment relate to my post?
Well, straight women obviously like dangly penises. Do you not understand women, either?

Sure it is. You decide, over a period of telling yourself until you believe it (lies repeated become the truth, and all that), that you're straight, and you then choose to sleep with a member of the opposite sex.


Fixed it for you.

Fixed it for you.

Nah, straight is the "default setting".

If it wasn't how would we ever survive as a species?

Well, straight women obviously like dangly penises. Do you not understand women, either?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

To be fair, you should. It would shed a whole new light on my posts in this thread.



Meh, I've been called much worse.



Sure it is. You decide, over a period of telling yourself until you believe it (lies repeated become the truth, and all that), that you're gay, and you then choose to sleep with a member of the same sex.


I still could careless.


Good.


You see, this is where the snag is occuring. You know NOTHING of the processes leading up to finding a mate(companion). Attraction is key. The only choice here, is the looks of the mate. I was attracted to my fiance and she was attracted to me. While that, another girl in my sociology class was attracted to me, but it was only one-sided because I wasn't to her. Since I wasn't attracted to her, I will never have sex with her. So I don't have to try it to know for sure.

HAY GUYZ I CANT UNDERSTAND SARCASM!

Nadkor's a lesbian, last I checked.

Way to blow my cover :rolleyes: :p

So you're more turned on by a body with no curves, no waist and a dangly penis than a curvy, soft, silky, tight-fitting female?

I'll never understand gays.

You must be shocked every time a woman decides to go out with you.

If, in fact, it ever happens at all...

Nah, straight is the "default setting".

If it wasn't how would we ever survive as a species?
What if homosexuality lowered competition when we were in small groups and this also slowed the rates of infanticide by aggressive males looking to be the dominant patriarch?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

Really? So no one ever finds the male body attractive. It's just a reaction to a chemical. I guess Michelangelo's David doesn't exist?

yup this is what always happens. person makes a religious related post and imediatly becomes a flame war. the point originally made was this.

Bible says no gay relations. So the Gays using bibles to justify the homosexuality, when the bible bans it, is contradicting. and as a believer, i just wanna smack some of them. Not because i hate gays. i dont. i have nothing against homosexual people. I just dont support what they do. what they do is non of my buisness. i just think its gross and unnatural. is that wrong? to think that something that someone does is gross? if so, well.......too bad. i dont support homosexuality. and im not gonna compromise my morals to just to support your life style.The Bible also bans the eating of shrimp, but goddamn, those Baptists sure scoop it up off the buffet after Sunday service.

Here's a glass of reality. The Bible contradicts itself on any number of topics, and that's not even getting into version and translation analysis. Oh, and our level of smackitude desire is mightily beyond thine.

Nah, straight is the "default setting".

If it wasn't how would we ever survive as a species?


wouldnt bi technically be the defaut since it is tho only one whic is open to change?

I still could careless.

Oh well. Remain in the dark, for with apathy thou shalt never see the light.

Good.
Yes. Yes it is.


You see, this is where the snag is occuring. You know NOTHING of the processes leading up to finding a mate(companion). Attraction is key. The only choice here, is the looks of the mate. I was attracted to my fiance and she was attracted to me. While that, another girl in my sociology class was attracted to me, but it was only one-sided because I wasn't to her. Since I wasn't attracted to her, I will never have sex with her. So I don't have to try it to know for sure.

Attraction built up over years of lying and decieving yourself. An oft-repeated lie becomes a truth.

Gays pursuade themselves they're gay, deviating from the natural straight "setting", and then they falsely believe themselves to be attracted to members of the same sex.

Way to blow my cover :rolleyes: :p

Making assinine comments in a lame attempt at sarcasm, while being a lesbian is hard to pick out. I'm not going through your enormous post count just to figure it out.

Really? So no one ever finds the male body attractive. It's just a reaction to a chemical. I guess Michelangelo's David doesn't exist?

Is beauty always about looks to you?

And they should care exactly why?

never said they should care. people tell me im a horrible person cause i dont support homosexuality. and i say blow me. i have my morals. you have your own. that being said lets move on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo_bird

What if homosexuality lowered competition when we were in small groups and this also slowed the rates of infanticide by aggressive males looking to be the dominant patriarch?

Mere hypothesising.

Is beauty always about looks to you?
So you could find beauty in another man.

Mere hypothesising.
Pretty good job of it.

Is beauty always about looks to you?
That is the definition of beauty, ya know.

Is beauty always about looks to you?

Ha. Yes, because I brought up looks. Oh, wait, that was you. You brought up looks and then you tried to change the argument. You've completed pulled apart your own argument.

Is it about looks or not? You don't understand gay men because of looks but people are attracted to men not by looks but by chemicals. What part of the word contradiction do you know understand?

Making assinine comments in a lame attempt at sarcasm, while being a lesbian is hard to pick out. I'm not going through your enormous post count just to figure it out.

Not my problem, you're the one who took the bait :p

Okay, i'll just reiterate what someone else said. Most gay people don't use the Bible to justify homosexuality. They don't point to it and say "look, it says right here that being gay is okay." They use it to point out that gay people shouldn't be judged or hated for who they are. Some do say that it's never outright condemned, but whether that's right or wrong, it's still not the same as saying it's praised or accepted, just that it isn't mentioned much at all.

Erg, I'm sick of bible-thumpers picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow! The bible condones slavery, rape and degradation of women, polygamy, sex with animals, and you choose to point out one stupid part of an old book of fiction, perhaps with a few grains of truth to condone hatred. Well, here's my opinion: Jesus taught to love your fellow men, and to forgive. Paul taught hatred. Christians should be following JESUS' teachings, not Paul.

Nah, straight is the "default setting".

If it wasn't how would we ever survive as a species?

Oh well I'm sorry, let's just ignore the fact that we've survived regardless of the history of humankind being riddled with gay sex, like, all the time.

Oh and you just admitted to evolution and natural selection and used them as an argument. Gj, Christian Fundamentalist.

never said they should care. people tell me im a horrible person cause i dont support homosexuality. and i say blow me. i have my morals. you have your own. that being said lets move on.

How do they find out you don't support homosexuality? By the way, I don't support homosexuality either? I don't think they need my support in their private practices. I do however support their equal treatment.

...people tell me im a horrible person cause i dont support homosexuality. and i say blow me.That sounds like a very Christian thing to do. :rolleyes:

Pretty good job of it.

Yeah, it made sense.

Oh well. Remain in the dark, for with apathy thou shalt never see the light.


Yes. Yes it is.




Attraction built up over years of lying and decieving yourself. An oft-repeated lie becomes a truth.

Gays pursuade themselves they're gay, deviating from the natural straight "setting", and then they falsely believe themselves to be attracted to members of the same sex.

I pity those who would actually go through your past posts. I'd rather not waste my time.


Attraction is not something you can force on yourself. But I really fail to see what exactly you're trying to prove. Your only argument has the basis of 'well gay is bad, so the homos force it upon themselves since everyone finds it bad'

Why struggle through persecutions for a lie?

Erg, I'm sick of bible-thumpers picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow! The bible condones slavery, rape and degradation of women, polygamy, sex with animals, and you choose to point out one stupid part of an old book of fiction, perhaps with a few grains of truth to condone hatred. Well, here's my opinion: Jesus taught to love your fellow men, and to forgive. Paul taught hatred. Christians should be following JESUS' teachings, not Paul.

Bullshit, who the hell ever heard of a Christian following Christ? I mean, it's not like it's in the name or anything.



... Wait...

Not my problem, you're the one who took the bait :p


You failed then. That crap has no place in a debate, especially when that sarcasm bordered on the line of stupidity which people like you often exhibit.

Bullshit, who the hell ever heard of a Christian following Christ? I mean, it's not like it's in the name or anything.



... Wait...

Hmmm... and who did the OP quote? Who is it that generally gets quoted to support the religious right? Hint: It's not Christ.

never said they should care. people tell me im a horrible person cause i dont support homosexuality. and i say blow me. i have my morals. you have your own. that being said lets move on.

And if the "people" in question are men, and you tell them to blow you... and then LET them, what does that make you*? (let's not always see the same hands, folks)



*I am assuming, from your name, The sons of tarsonis, and from the fact that "blow me" means very little when said by a woman, that you are, in fact, male. If I am mistaken, then my attempt at humor will probably fall a little flat, but it is a calculated risk that I am willing to take.

Will you go to hell if you are gay?
Will God hate you if you are gay?

I dont know those questins can some please help me. This is really inportant!

Sure it is. You decide, over a period of telling yourself until you believe it (lies repeated become the truth, and all that), that you're gay, and you then choose to sleep with a member of the same sex.

Lol then explain to me why it isn't so easy for some gays who try to lie themselves back into heterosexualness?

You failed then. That crap has no place in a debate, especially when that sarcasm bordered on the line of stupidity which people like you often exhibit.

She failed? Are you claiming you didn't miss her sarcasm when many of the rest of us saw it clearly?

Hmmm... and who did the OP quote? Who is it that generally gets quoted to support the religious right? Hint: It's not Christ.

He quoted Paul and referenced Romans and hinted at Leviticus.

Three guys who are NOT the son of god.


I've asked this before, but has anyone read the Gospel of Mary? Does it say anything about gays or equal treatment?

Oh well I'm sorry, let's just ignore the fact that we've survived regardless of the history of humankind being riddled with gay sex, like, all the time.

Yeah, but at least back then they did the right thing and punished them.

Oh and you just admitted to evolution and natural selection and used them as an argument. Gj, Christian Fundamentalist.

I'm not even going to start on why evolution is crap.

Will you go to hell if you are gay?
Will God hate you if you are gay?

I dont know those questins can some please help me. This is really inportant!

No, and "God doesn't hate anyone."

You failed then. That crap has no place in a debate, especially when that sarcasm bordered on the line of stupidity which people like you often exhibit.

It wasn't all sarcasm. Some of it was Devil's Advocating. There's a difference. And there's every place for it in a debate.

She failed? Are you claiming you didn't miss her sarcasm when many of the rest of us saw it clearly?

I'm a select poster here. I would have clearly saw it, had I known her to be a lesbian. In fact, I didn't even know she was a 'she'? Point is, this is the first time I've even heard of her.

Will you go to hell if you are gay?
Will God hate you if you are gay?

I dont know those questins can some please help me. This is really inportant!

Depends on who you ask...
Almost no one claims God hates you if you are gay, and most (moderate, not extremist) christians I know say that since all have sinned and are therefore equal in God's eyes, then if you believe Jesus died for your sins (or whatever requirement there is to get into heaven) then you'll go to heaven anyway.

Will you go to hell if you are gay?
Will God hate you if you are gay?

I dont know those questins can some please help me. This is really inportant!
God won't respond to my phone calls.