NationStates Jolt Archive

There's a difference between expecting people to talk in English (this is Philadelphia, after all) and posting a sign that basically say "talk english or get out". But from the description DCD made, I can see it from people who get annoyed when you take your time to order. They want productivity. That's good when there's a lot of people about but that's a bad business decision. It drives away customers. And when people will get fed up from being bossed around, they'll take their money and go elsewhere. I know I would not be a customer if they tell me to get at the back of the line and learn to order.

Actually, it may drive away the one or two self-centered type-A's, but for the countless other people who were stuck behind the ass-hole who cannot order in the language the person handling the transaction understands, or behind the people who still are trying to figure out what they want, it encourages them back, since they know the management won't put up with them.

It has no sense really.

it was something like..."I want a I show your facts"

Indeed. It was the obverse of Spanglish.
On the 'el fast ball no es bueno, porque?'-level.

If you go to Germany or France, where English is taught to all high schoolers, and order in English, you wont get anything. It shows some decency and respect to try and learn the local language. In the United States of America, the local language is English. I understand if you have limited command of English, or are learning it, but it seems to me that many people assume that we will speak spanish for them just because they speak it. I know spanish is growing in speakers in the United States, but for now at least, the language is English. Please try to speak it.

Geno's = PR stunt. All I want is a steak wit wiz and witout, I dont really care if you dont serve in Spanish.

Just so you know, before you all rush out to post 'english only' signs at your workplace, and if no one has mentioned it yet, Genos was recently sued over the sign alleging discrimination based on national origin.

Here's why: Those who do not speak english or speak it poorly are likely to be of a national origin other than that of the USA. National Origin is a protected class based on Title VII of the Civil RIghts act of 1964.

Geno's will probably end up settling the case and being forced to take down the sign as part of the settlement.

Personally, as a lawyer (who specializes in Hospitality business law) I would have told him not to put up the sign in the first place. Making political statements is fine, but its best to keep such a thing seperate from the workplace. The best defense against lawsuits is to minimize liability, and making potentially discriminatory statements is a bad way to do so.

And as an aside, I don't think Geno's should have put up the sign anyway. If you've ever been to Geno's and talked to the people there, you realize that the language used in south philly is barely english as it is. I mean I'm not perfect with my grammar and such, but since when did, "'ey, youse gon order or what?" become a shining example of the english language?

When I went down to Panama in 1998, I ordered in Spanish.
And what exactly did you say?

You know, that reminds me of my homestay in Mexico and my early days in Japan. I did a lot of point and "uno por favor"/"hitotsu onigaishimasu" ("one please" in Spanish and Japanese) ordering. (I still do this sometimes, as Japanese characters can sometimes be very difficult to decipher when written in certain styles.)

Even with learning English not being a magical automatic, it doesn't really take a high level of English to point at a menu and say "one please". Even easier, most people have a general idea of what's served at a restaurant. I can tell you that it's not that hard to learn to say a few basic food items, count to 10, and learn the basic polite phrases. I managed that in both Spanish and Japanese in about a week or two, and I'm a hard study when it comes to foreign languages. (Don't ask me to order in Spanish any more, though. It's been more than 15 years and I haven't used it at all - almost all gone. :( But I can still order "un cerveza, por favor!" and ask for the bano.)

And as an aside, I don't think Geno's should have put up the sign anyway. If you've ever been to Geno's and talked to the people there, you realize that the language used in south philly is barely english as it is. I mean I'm not perfect with my grammar and such, but since when did, "'ey, youse gon order or what?" become a shining example of the english language?

"you want dat steak wit or witout?"

Just so you know, before you all rush out to post 'english only' signs at your workplace, and if no one has mentioned it yet, Genos was recently sued over the sign alleging discrimination based on national origin.

Here's why: Those who do not speak english or speak it poorly are likely to be of a national origin other than that of the USA. National Origin is a protected class based on Title VII of the Civil RIghts act of 1964.

Geno's will probably end up settling the case and being forced to take down the sign as part of the settlement.

Personally, as a lawyer (who specializes in Hospitality business law) I would have told him not to put up the sign in the first place. Making political statements is fine, but its best to keep such a thing seperate from the workplace. The best defense against lawsuits is to minimize liability, and making potentially discriminatory statements is a bad way to do so.

And as an aside, I don't think Geno's should have put up the sign anyway. If you've ever been to Geno's and talked to the people there, you realize that the language used in south philly is barely english as it is. I mean I'm not perfect with my grammar and such, but since when did, "'ey, youse gon order or what?" become a shining example of the english language?

Did you even bother to read this thread? ;)

The "racism" lawsuit has been one of the main topics. And while yes, those of other national origins are protected by law (the morality of which is questionable), as I and other's have been hammer away at here and in the other thread, the ability to speak a language does not equate with ethnicity or national origin. To suggest so is to suggest that non-natives are inherently stupid because they are incapable of learning even the minimum language sufficient to order (see my post immediately above re this).

And, as I understand it (not being a lawyer, correct me if I am wrong) they face a one time fine of US$300. I suspect they'd be willing to eat that.

(Oh, and you're a brave one - admitting to being a lawyer here... :eek: I suspect at least one or two denzins will open a can of flame....)

Actually, they could face a much more substantial fine than $300.

If it is proven that Geno's discriminates based on national origin against customers, what does that say about their hiring practices. Do you really think the EEOC or some other agency won't investigate the business or that other lawsuits won't be filed?

The real problem is that, if the EEOC does charge them with discrimnination in hiring, Genos not only faces compensatory damages, but also the potential for punitive damages sought by the Commission.

With Fed-Ex recently having had to pay, I believe it was 33 Million in punitive damages, based on an issue of national origin, if I were Geno's I'd be stepping carefully.

And, if I get flamed for my profession so be it. After all,I'm not out there defending the guy who killed your family for a buck, I consult with hospitality businesses. Business law, yum.

True. True.

It doesn't show that the restaurant is racist. It show a lazy tendency, nothing more.
The restaurant is lazy because the owner and employees don't want to go take Spanish classes but the immigrants aren't lazy because they won't go take English classes.

The restaurant is lazy because the owner and employees don't want to go take Spanish classes but the immigrants aren't lazy because they won't go take English classes.
Both are lazy. I've never said otherwise.

Why is that? There's no official language in the USA. There's no law saying you HAVE to speak english.

Furthermore, do you agree that you HAVE to speak german in Germany? You have to be fluent in french to go to France? Then why do you have to speak english in the US? Can't tourist no appreciate a good Cheese Cake in Philadelphia by trying to communicate their want in their native tongue? No... you HAVE to use english to order. What a lazy way to do business.

on the other hand, since the vast majority of people who buy cheese STEAKS in Philadelphia probably can speak English fluently...

it probably would not be cost-effective to hire a multilingual interpreter.

I suggest they update their menu so that it shows pictures of the sandwiches/fries (or whatever), with a number next to each picture.

that way some poor guy from Timbuktu could order the mushroom-and-onions-double-meat cheese steak with Cheese Whiz (as opposed to Provolone), even if he has no idea what it's called.

hehe

But I can still order "un cerveza, por favor!" and ask for the bano.

As a polite correction, without the meaning of being extremely grammar nazi.

Beer is a female noun in spanish :D

"Una cerveza, por favor"

on the other hand, since the vast majority of people who buy cheese STEAKS in Philadelphia probably can speak English fluently...

it probably would not be cost-effective to hire a multilingual interpreter.

I suggest they update their menu so that it shows pictures of the sandwiches/fries (or whatever), with a number next to each picture.

that way some poor guy from Timbuktu could order the mushroom-and-onions-double-meat cheese steak with Cheese Whiz (as opposed to Provolone), even if he has no idea what it's called.

hehe
The thing is, there's a polite way to say things and a dumbass way to say things.

"Please, use english when ordering" is polite.

"This is america, use english" is dumbass. It's also asking for people to be offensed. I think the owner is stupid and I will not eat at his place. Just from a sign he put on his window. His loss, I guess. Not that it should bring a lawsuit, but he's asking for a protest in front of his store that disrupt his business.

Actually, they could face a much more substantial fine than $300.

If it is proven that Geno's discriminates based on national origin against customers, what does that say about their hiring practices. Do you really think the EEOC or some other agency won't investigate the business or that other lawsuits won't be filed?

The real problem is that, if the EEOC does charge them with discrimnination in hiring, Genos not only faces compensatory damages, but also the potential for punitive damages sought by the Commission.

With Fed-Ex recently having had to pay, I believe it was 33 Million in punitive damages, based on an issue of national origin, if I were Geno's I'd be stepping carefully.

Well, as I understand it, part of the reason for the posting of the sign was that their Spanish speaking employee was being swamped. That suggest to me quite the opposite - they seem to hire regardless. (I'll leave my opinions/questions of the morality and constitutionality of the EEOC and like agencies out for the moment...)

As a polite correction, without the meaning of being extremely grammar nazi.

Beer is a female noun in spanish :D

"Una cerveza, por favor"

Like I said, it's been a long time and I'm not the greatest language student. But you know what? I always got a beer when I said that. Ordering in broken Spanish will get you a better result than not ordering in Spanish at all... Same with English in English speaking countries or anywhere else. :D

The thing is, there's a polite way to say things and a dumbass way to say things.

"Please, use english when ordering" is polite.

"This is america, use english" is dumbass. It's also asking for people to be offensed. I think the owner is stupid and I will not eat at his place. Just from a sign he put on his window. His loss, I guess. Not that it should bring a lawsuit, but he's asking for a protest in front of his store that disrupt his business.
Ah, but don't forget all the press coverage his restaurant is getting. And all he had to do was put up a sign.

That's debatable. I believe most of the world uses the 7 continent system, whereby there is North America and South America, and not merely one. If you want to get really technical, "The United States" is more of a prefix, like "The Democratic Republic" or "The People's Republic" or "The Grand, Uber Vast Imperial Dominion." Thus, while "The People's Republic" sometimes conjures up China automatically, China is still the name of the country, not 'The People's Republic.'

At any rate, this isn't something worth nitpicking. Precedence and common usage dictates that America on its own dictates the United States of America.

It may not be worth nitpicking, but I'm going to for a bit. The other examples you gave were a description of the form of government, followed by the name of the country. There is no form of government called a "United States". If we were called "The Federal Republic of America" that would make more sense, but we're not. The name United States of America is referring to a group of states located in America who are united. Except for Hawaii, they're not located in America in this particular sense, but I'm sure the Founding Fathers didn't anticipate an island in the pacific joining their Union.

i still remember a decent amount of it several years later. j'aime le poumplemousse, sil'vous plait.

If you'll allow me to indulge in a bit of grammar naziism, you should say "Je voudrais le pamplemousse, s'il vous plait". What you say does literally mean, "I like the grapefruit, please", but if you told me that I would think "Is he asking me if he's allowed to like grapefruits? Or is he just telling me that he likes them?" This is because the word "voudrais" is a form of "vouloir" which means "to want", and "aime" is a form of "aimer" which means to like, and saying "I would like" doesn't work in French the way that it does in English. If they spoke English I imagine that they would figure out what you were trying to say, but if they didn't it would probably be a rather frustrating time for everyone.

Well, you got one thing right: societies have a right to demand conformity.

Erm... sure... in 17th Century France. Welcome to Western liberalism, circa 1800's. Have you heard of this nice little concept "individual freedoms"?

The restaurant is lazy because the owner and employees don't want to go take Spanish classes but the immigrants aren't lazy because they won't go take English classes.

Why do you think they are lazy??? And why should they have to speak Spanish? I think if they are forced to have to speak Spanish that is discrimination against them. :headbang:

Yeah, sure. If by "worse" you mean "incredibly awesome"!

Mmm... No. Pretty sure I meant you talk like gibbons.

I speak a smattering of the following:

Japanese
German
Spanish
French
Russian
Italian
Have you ever tried to order food using those languages only in a real life situation?

Again, I'm not saying that stores and other places of buisness need to be the bloody UN and have translators for everyone, I just find it annoying (as someone who is now in that situation) to find people who seem to think that language learning is simple and just memorizing a phrase book will give you command of the language. It REALLY is not that simple.

Have you ever tried to order food using those languages only in a real life situation?

Yes I have. In Panama in 1998.

IMO, it's more prudent to say I'm an Americani dont know.. these days many US citizens feel its more prudent to say "I am Canadian". :D

www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=132&fArticleId=2337193
www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/07/canadian-tshirt041207.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6666338

i dont know.. these days many US citizens feel its more prudent to say "I am Canadian". :D

www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=132&fArticleId=2337193
www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/12/07/canadian-tshirt041207.html
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6666338

Being a Michigander I've only rarely been recognized as being American overseas. Almost everyone thinks I'm Canadian.

Yes I have. In Panama in 1998.
And? Were you able to order with native flair, knowing and comprehending everything asked of you, being able to read the offerings and comprehending... in other words, like you can at home in English.

Or were you more than a little hesitant, flustered, and reduced to finding something that looked slightly familar and pointing a lot?

Can't tourist no appreciate a good Cheese Cake in Philadelphia by trying to communicate their want in their native tongue? No... you HAVE to use english to order. What a lazy way to do business.

So you say EVERY Waiter\Waitress, Cashier in the place, in order to do their job, must learn every language in the world or something? That's what you're implying? How Idiotic.

And? Were you able to order with native flair, knowing and comprehending everything asked of you, being able to read the offerings and comprehending... in other words, like you can at home in English.

Or were you more than a little hesitant, flustered, and reduced to finding something that looked slightly familar and pointing a lot?

And so what if you are. Communication is a human talent, and people will establish meaningful exchange with just pointing and smiling if necessary.

When I arrived in Brazil I spoke exactly six words in Portuguese, but I could still manage to communicate. Fluency and flair are as necessary as a pork butcher at a bar mitzvah.

Half of the fun of eating in a foreign country is finding out exactly what it is you ordered.

And so what if you are. Communication is a human talent, and people will establish meaningful exchange with just pointing and smiling if necessary.
Indeed, but at this joint, this is no longer allowed, English only.

When I arrived in Brazil I spoke exactly six words in Portuguese, but I could still manage to communicate. Fluency and flair are as necessary as a pork butcher at a bar mitzvah.
And yet some of the people on this thread seem to be of the opinion that anyone coming to this place needs to be able to order in full and proper English, even though it takes quite a bit to get there.

That's my point. To get to native ability takes a long time. And sometimes all you can do is point and smile if you have no idea what to call that or what to say. But the above cheesesteak place seems to be of the opinion that only well spoken English will surfice.

Half of the fun of eating in a foreign country is finding out exactly what it is you ordered.
Ignoring food allergies, that can be dangerous. Especially in Japan where they have no qualm about feeding unsuspecting guests natto. :D

Indeed, but at this joint, this is no longer allowed, English only.
Pointing and smiling are English. :p


And yet some of the people on this thread seem to be of the opinion that anyone coming to this place needs to be able to order in full and proper English, even though it takes quite a bit to get there.

That's my point. To get to native ability takes a long time. And sometimes all you can do is point and smile if you have no idea what to call that or what to say. But the above cheesesteak place seems to be of the opinion that only well spoken English will sufice.
There are those in this thread that seem to be arguing that, however I really don't believe it. The cheesesteak place is probably just indicating that the only language they make any commitment to understanding is English. So it is no good shouting at them in Spanish and waving your arms about. Nowhere, does it indicate that the English has to be welll spoken. "To deez plis" probably works with the help of a pointing finger.


Ignoring food allergies, that can be dangerous. Especially in Japan where they have no qualm about feeding unsuspecting guests natto. :D
Allergies aside (I am allergic to crustacea but only to the degree that they make me violently ill) I would not try it in a culture so different to ours as the Japanese or Ashanti, unless I had no choice, in which case, what the heck - they eat it and it doesn't kill them. .

Half of the fun of eating in a foreign country is finding out exactly what it is you ordered.
"Dammit! I wanted to know where I can find some sex, not Sikhs!"

Pointing and smiling are English. :p
*LOL* Ok, I liked that. I think you're gonna get slammed for it, but I loved it!

There are those in this thread that seem to be arguing that, however I really don't believe it. The cheesesteak place is probably just indicating that the only language they make any commitment to understanding is English. So it is no good shouting at them in Spanish and waving your arms about. Nowhere, does it indicate that the English has to be welll spoken. "To deez plis" probably works with the help of a pointing finger.
I dunno... the comments made by the owner... But, as I have said, this is his right. Just as it's my right not to go to such a place who has said requierment.

Not that's much of an impact considering I'm currently on the other side of the globe from said place and have no plans to visit the city it's in any time soon. ;)

Allergies aside (I am allergic to crustacea but only to the degree that they make me violently ill) I would not try it in a culture so different to ours as the Japanese or Ashanti, unless I had no choice, in which case, what the heck - they eat it and it doesn't kill them. .
*carefully does not note the 12 or so deaths each year in Japan due to eating fugu*

Geno's Steaks, the best place in Philadelphia for a cheesesteak sandwich, recently got accused of being racist for putting up signs saying "Please speak English when ordering". What's so bad about that? They don't refuse to serve customers who can't speak English well, they just ask that customers who can speak English do so.

It's daft I know. Depends on who's saying it, and who hears it. How do I know? Well, a long time ago, I was using a forujm and someone started speaking a foreign language. I suggested they speak English. I got a roasting for it. Recently, on the very same (just updated version) message board, someone else said about certain people not speaking English when they go somewhere, and the person who said that has had no bad replies so far.

So you say EVERY Waiter\Waitress, Cashier in the place, in order to do their job, must learn every language in the world or something? That's what you're implying? How Idiotic.
How on earth did you jump to this conclusion?

There is a difference between asking politely if the customer can talk english and "Yo! Learn to order in english. This is America, damnit! In the meantime, back of the line!"

The latter is just idiotic.

Indeed, but at this joint, this is no longer allowed, English only.


And yet some of the people on this thread seem to be of the opinion that anyone coming to this place needs to be able to order in full and proper English, even though it takes quite a bit to get there.

That's my point. To get to native ability takes a long time. And sometimes all you can do is point and smile if you have no idea what to call that or what to say. But the above cheesesteak place seems to be of the opinion that only well spoken English will surfice.

Nope and nope. The quotes from the owner in all the articles have said they haven't turned away customes for not speaking English, that broken English is OK, and that pointing is OK.

Ignoring food allergies, that can be dangerous. Especially in Japan where they have no qualm about feeding unsuspecting guests natto. :D

That's why I call my early days of Japanese restauranting "Japanese Roulette" - it's like the Russian version, only played with the stomach. (And yes, I got some awful stuff.)

Pointing and smiling are English.

:D

There are those in this thread that seem to be arguing that, however I really don't believe it. The cheesesteak place is probably just indicating that the only language they make any commitment to understanding is English. So it is no good shouting at them in Spanish and waving your arms about. Nowhere, does it indicate that the English has to be welll spoken. "To deez plis" probably works with the help of a pointing finger.

I think we're fairly close in agreement here.

One question for NERVUN: You do think immigrants should at least make an effort to learn the local language, ne? ;))

And one for AB: I may have heard before and just forgotten, but is your mother tounge English or Portugese (or both - bilingual upbringings rock).

And?

And what? I answered your question. I tried (notice the word tried) to order in spanish.

Were you able to order with native flair, knowing and comprehending everything asked of you, being able to read the offerings and comprehending... in other words, like you can at home in English.

WHat? I need to be fluent in a language before I can order in it?

Or were you more than a little hesitant, flustered, and reduced to finding something that looked slightly familar and pointing a lot?

I got what I wanted across. I knew how to pronounce spanish words and I did it slowly and carefully.

And what? I answered your question. I tried (notice the word tried) to order in spanish.



WHat? I need to be fluent in a language before I can order in it?



I got what I wanted across. I knew how to pronounce spanish words and I did it slowly and carefully.

Heh, I actually prefer the pointing and smiling when that happens.

But then again, I agree entirely that inmigrants should make, not just an effort, but their best effort in learning their new country's language.

Heh, I actually prefer the pointing and smiling when that happens.

I do my best when in a foreign country. Now I'm hoping to save up money and go to spain next summer.

But then again, I agree entirely that inmigrants should make, not just an effort, but their best effort in learning their new country's language.

Agreed.

And one for AB: I may have heard before and just forgotten, but is your mother tounge English or Portugese (or both - bilingual upbringings rock).

My mother tongue is point and make googoo noises (like every one else) :) - no English, and I spoke no Portuguese at all until I was over 30. (I did speak a lot of French and some German as well as C++, Pascal, Fortran, Lisp etc. all of which is now buried deep in my subconscious)

"Dammit! I wanted to know where I can find some sex, not Sikhs!"

Yes but it is better than having a shit on the bed. ;)

That's why I call my early days of Japanese restauranting "Japanese Roulette" - it's like the Russian version, only played with the stomach. (And yes, I got some awful stuff.)
I made some disasters. Peanut butter and wakame paste sandwiches don't taste good AT ALL.

One question for NERVUN: You do think immigrants should at least make an effort to learn the local language, ne? ;))
Of course. And for the most part, they do (The local paper back home notes that every single ESL class in Washoe County has a huge waiting list for it. They can't hire teachers fast enough to keep up with demand), I haven't seen a large segment of the immigrant population that absolutly refuses to attempt to learn the dominate language.

It just annoys the hell out of me when it's assumed that language learning is easy and that anyone who doesn't speak English obviously is a lazy bastard.

Geno's Steaks, the best place in Philadelphia for a cheesesteak sandwich, recently got accused of being racist for putting up signs saying "Please speak English when ordering". What's so bad about that? They don't refuse to serve customers who can't speak English well, they just ask that customers who can speak English do so.

You ever been to Philadelphia? Those folks don't do such a great job speaking English (I'm referring to the English speakers). How about Geno's hiring an English teacher to evaluate whether or not their customers are speaking proper English?

(snip)
It just annoys the hell out of me when it's assumed that language learning is easy and that anyone who doesn't speak English obviously is a lazy bastard.
Then direct your ire at Fass... because it was he/she/it who first put forth the argument that

it's Spanish, not Xhosa. You could pick it up in six months, what with it being so prevalent in the US (and on the rise ). There is no excuse except laziness, or wilful ignorance.

Then direct your ire at Fass... because it was he/she/it who first put forth the argument that
Fass has been MIA for the last few days.

And Fass is a he, BTW.

Fass has been MIA for the last few days.

And Fass is a he, BTW.
What I cannot understand is why is what Fass said taken as Gospel. As an individual, he might enjoy a gift for languages. Yet this poster who keeps on referring to him would seem to think that language-learning is a fairly uncomplicated affair. Perhaps, at a rudimentary level. However, to attain fluency it is a constant and involved process.

What I cannot understand is why is what Fass said taken as Gospel. As an individual, he might enjoy a gift for languages. Yet this poster who keeps on referring to him would seem to think that language-learning is a fairly uncomplicated affair. Perhaps, at a rudimentary level. However, to attain fluency it is a constant and involved process.
Because arguing with Fass can be an interesting experiance? Damned if I know.

What I cannot understand is why is what Fass said taken as Gospel. As an individual, he might enjoy a gift for languages. Yet this poster who keeps on referring to him would seem to think that language-learning is a fairly uncomplicated affair. Perhaps, at a rudimentary level. However, to attain fluency it is a constant and involved process.
In the other thread on this same story, I was trying to use Fass argument agaisnt him. No one else bothered to call him on his assertions.

But again, how easily or not one can learn a language is besides the point.

Private property rights aside, is requesting that one use English to order at a business racist?

In the other thread on this same story, I was trying to use Fass argument agaisnt him. No one else bothered to call him on his assertions.
I see. Well, both Nervun and I have questioned those assertions in this thread repeatedly. They are simply too subjectibe.

But again, how easily or not one can learn a language is besides the point.
Fair enough.

Private property rights aside, is requesting that one use English to order at a business racist?
Personally, I do not believe it is racist. Discriminatory? Perhaps. However, if the business cannot find multilingual employees, and feels it should best serve its clients by warning them that ordering in any other language will lead to poor results, then no. It is even less so discriminatory if it simply advises its clients to use English.

In the other thread on this same story, I was trying to use Fass argument agaisnt him. No one else bothered to call him on his assertions.
If I happened to have been in that thread, I would have.

But again, how easily or not one can learn a language is besides the point.
I don't actually feel it is. I think it is very much the point when dealing with this. Because it does take time, it does take effort, and what are you supposed to do until then?

Private property rights aside, is requesting that one use English to order at a business racist?
That's harder to qualify. Racist? No, not as such because it is not just non-whites who use langauges other than English. Discriminatory? Possibly. Is it his place so he can do so? Yes, yes he can. I think it's bad buisness sense, but he can do it as much as requesting shirts and shoes.

How it plays against anti-discrimination laws is another story through.

Pats is the best. I live here I know ...Geno's is second best...IMO .

Joe is brilliant for getting his little tiny CHEESESTEAK shop about a billion dollars world wide publicity and should be commended for his brilliance as a Businessperson only .

I made some disasters. Peanut butter and wakame paste sandwiches don't taste good AT ALL.

And sugar and salt look far too much alike. For some reason, people get upset when you buy the wrong one for the teachers room coffee station sugar cup and they end up with 3 spoonfuls of salt in their coffee...

Of course. And for the most part, they do (The local paper back home notes that every single ESL class in Washoe County has a huge waiting list for it. They can't hire teachers fast enough to keep up with demand), I haven't seen a large segment of the immigrant population that absolutly refuses to attempt to learn the dominate language.

It just annoys the hell out of me when it's assumed that language learning is easy and that anyone who doesn't speak English obviously is a lazy bastard.

And fair enough, we're on the same page, at least more or less.

And sugar and salt look far too much alike. For some reason, people get upset when you buy the wrong one for the teachers room coffee station sugar cup and they end up with 3 spoonfuls of salt in their coffee...
Gee... I wonder why... ;)

Gee... I wonder why... ;)

I dunno. The coffee smelled the same to me, and even salt would make it taste better than it already does... (GD&Runs from the coffee drinkers!)

I dunno. The coffee smelled the same to me, and even salt would make it taste better than it already does... (GD&Runs from the coffee drinkers!)
I admit that I finally had enough of the instant coffee my school uses and went out and bought a huge can of Hills Brothers from an import store. God did it taste good!

Actually, they could face a much more substantial fine than $300.

If it is proven that Geno's discriminates based on national origin against customers, what does that say about their hiring practices. Do you really think the EEOC or some other agency won't investigate the business or that other lawsuits won't be filed?

The real problem is that, if the EEOC does charge them with discrimnination in hiring, Genos not only faces compensatory damages, but also the potential for punitive damages sought by the Commission.

With Fed-Ex recently having had to pay, I believe it was 33 Million in punitive damages, based on an issue of national origin, if I were Geno's I'd be stepping carefully.

And, if I get flamed for my profession so be it. After all,I'm not out there defending the guy who killed your family for a buck, I consult with hospitality businesses. Business law, yum.

Your wish is my command.
And some wonder why so many dislike lawyers so much.

when you give them a spanking at the same time.

Your wish is my command.
And some wonder why so many dislike lawyers so much.

Really? cool. Uhm, go dig me a pool in my backyard and then get me a margarita and rub my feet.

Please.

I admit that I finally had enough of the instant coffee my school uses and went out and bought a huge can of Hills Brothers from an import store. God did it taste good!

All coffee could be improved by adding salt to it. :eek: (I do not like it here or there. I do not like it anywhere. I do not like it, Sam I am. )

All coffee could be improved by adding salt to it. :eek: (I do not like it here or there. I do not like it anywhere. I do not like it, Sam I am. )
Where's Eut with his trout when you need someone smacked silly?



;)

Where's Eut with his trout when you need someone smacked silly?



;)

Funnily enough, I was just commenting this afternoon on my nations bad taste - from the recent "fur coat" issue and the trout fishing ranks, it appears that Daistallia 2104 is a major producer of trout fur coats...