NationStates Jolt Archive

As long as marriage is a government institution, gay marriage should be allowed. If it is a religious institution, it would be wrong to force the matter. The line is rather blurry, but since the government makes specific laws and allowances for married couples I would argue marriage is a governmental institution. Thus, to maintain equal protection of laws, I argue that the government has an obligation to legalize gay marriage.
Blurry line? Not according to Calvin or Luther it wasn't; marraige was government-business only!

To requote one example...

So, you were saying it was religious, right? In the protestant America, and the Protestant evangelical churches, it certianly shouldn't be! So in fact... they are traitors to their faith...
Yes, originally it was mostly a religious cermony.
If memory serves it quite quickly got some legal issues on it as well, but since most lawmen in those days also were priests or priestesses, the religion went right along with the legal one.

Note that this was in the days of the Assyrians and Babylonians or posibly even before that.

For our times I think that as far as granting rights go, it should be a purely secular cermony, and those who wish can have a religius cermony as well.

Well in The pledge of Allegiance, The words " One nation under God" come up. And therefore if our nation is under God. And God clearly says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriages should be banned

Yes, originally it was mostly a religious cermony.
If memory serves it quite quickly got some legal issues on it as well, but since most lawmen in those days also were priests or priestesses, the religion went right along with the legal one.

For our times I think that as far as granting rights go, it should be a purely secular cermony, and those who wish can have a religius cermony as well.
Jesus... those times? You mean when the lawmen were religious but not priests? Look at the law under the Puritans, that a JP had to marry a couple not a priest. Also look at the reference to Roman marriage... in only one of three cases was a priest part of the matter.

Well in The pledge of Allegiance, The words " One nation under God" come up. And therefore if our nation is under God. And God clearly says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriages should be banned
Only since the fifties has it said that and that was to fight the "evil commie menace"... anyway, which God?

what is beleifs? anyways, I WILL not be tolerant of what he said. No way not now, not ever. Tolerance is for people with sane ideas. This is just like telling black people back when segregation was in style that it's acceptable to have different water fountains, bathrooms, schools, etc for black people. No it's not right.

That's exactly what I mean. But the thing is: in the case of blackpeople and segregation; quite simply put, they ARE people, as oppossed to gay "beings" which are nothing mre than filth; undeseving of the hate they recieve (notice that I put "which" isnstead of "who" which would imply that they are a human being, heh). And if I don't know better, I would say you are possibly gay, and that is why you are so defensive concerning this subject and others' criticism, or you are unsure about your sexuality and are wrestling with your desires and emotions. Frankly, I am not homophobic, I do not "fear" gays or am jittery/scared/uncomfortable around them. Most of those people are secretly gay and do not want to be around the object of their guilt, thus trying to prove that theya re not. I simply view them as filth, disgusting, verminous filth deserving nothing more than complete and total extermination. The blasphemy of Homosexuality is such that onll one solution is acceptable: Extermination. One Glorious day, I shall conquer the planet, bringing mankind (the only true God) under one banner, creating a justand righteous place for man, but before one can be pure, one must be CLEANSED, thus we shall hunt down, kill, burn, and destroy these despicable abominations, and purify our race of this disgusting pestilence. One day... all shall fall before us; Thee killings will be quick, decisive, and with EXTREME prejudice. We seek no truce, we offer no mercy; Surrender, or be destroyed. We WILL save your soul; even if you die in the proccess...

Well in The pledge of Allegiance, The words " One nation under God" come up. And therefore if our nation is under God. And God clearly says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriages should be banned
But it doesn't specify it as the christian God, does it?
Even though the founding fathers were christians.


Actually, if we go with your definition, you're not going far enough.
As homosexuals clearly are abominations before God, it is your christian duty to hunt them down and kill them so they may be judged by God.

The ssame goes for everyone who is not christian actually, though those that "merely" are of another faith can be given the option of converting.

Wow, this poll is not a good measurement of America's view point.
Most Americans view marriage between a man and a woman union only.
Bottom line: This is not a scientific poll.

The state of CA (a liberal state with San Francisco) voted that marriage is between a man and a woman.
No shit Sherlock, if you need to see the outcome of the poll to realize that the sampling population is non representative and non random then you may want to stay away from statistics as a career

god is like the word car. car is a type of vehicle. god is a type of being. if there was a car called Car. the 'c' would be upper case. Because it's a name. So when we say God in the pledge. It's The God of the bible.

god is like the word car. car is a type of vehicle. god is a type of being. if there was a car called Car. the 'c' would be upper case. Because it's a name. So when we say God in the pledge. It's The God of the bible.
...Right. So in effect its a law with regards to establishment of Christianity right?

god is like the word car. car is a type of vehicle. god is a type of being. if there was a car called Car. the 'c' would be upper case. Because it's a name. So when we say God in the pledge. It's The God of the bible.
Which sect … all you guys perceive it differently.

I'd choose to be straight for a couple of reasons... primarily straight people don't get discriminated against, and there's no chance of being a target of hatecrime for my sexuality!

So why would a homosexual choose to live that life?

Oh yeah, he/she doesnt.

As long as marriage is a government institution, gay marriage should be allowed. If it is a religious institution, it would be wrong to force the matter. The line is rather blurry, but since the government makes specific laws and allowances for married couples I would argue marriage is a governmental institution. Thus, to maintain equal protection of laws, I argue that the government has an obligation to legalize gay marriage.

With that logic: Farmers should be given the ok to marry Sheep......polygama will be ok now......Cheaters on Highway multipassenger lanes, should be aloud to marry blowup dolls...........etc

But it doesn't specify it as the christian God, does it?
Even though the founding fathers were christians.


Actually, if we go with your definition, you're not going far enough.
As homosexuals clearly are abominations before God, it is your christian duty to hunt them down and kill them so they may be judged by God.

The ssame goes for everyone who is not christian actually, though those that "merely" are of another faith can be given the option of converting.
neither am I. who is God but me? Who is God but you? WE ARE the ONLY GOD. There is no God, in the Bible, Qo'ran, Tora or any other religion that has accomplished waht e have. LOOKAT US! WE create towers that reach to the sky, as if to pluck the very stars from the sky. Which is why it is my "HOLY" duty, not christian. Self-preservation. Even the simplest organism follows this rule. Are we ment to be less than the animals? NO! we are infinetely superiror!!And we must rid ourselves of this "threat" (however minuscle it can be) to ensure our survival! Just the same as we must ban, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Not because "God" does'nt like it but becuse we must ensure the purityof the genepool if we are to survive. The killings will be just righteous and holy. Round them up, gun them down, burn them on a cross, tear them apart and feed them to the worms of the Earth, drag them out of their beds at night, force them into death camps, nuke their cities, unleash flesh-eating viruses upon them; but kill them, kill them! KILL THEM!WE must maintain order and purity above all, and homosexuality is, by far, the GREATEST ABOMINATION OF ALL.

Which sect … all you guys perceive it differently.
Ah that no one knows. In order to find that out we would have to ask the founding fathers.

So why would a homosexual choose to live that life?

Oh yeah, he/she doesnt.
Exactly. Like I say, if I had a choice, I'd choose to be straight... I don't though.

Sn, what kind of twisted logic is that? And what is it with you lot and bestiality comparisons huh?

Jesus... those times? You mean when the lawmen were religious but not priests? Look at the law under the Puritans, that a JP had to marry a couple not a priest. Also look at the reference to Roman marriage... in only one of three cases was a priest part of the matter.
No meant back in the days of Assyrians and Babylonians.
If memory serves, the lawmen were also priests then. At least most of them, but not all.

What is a JP? I'm not familiar with the term (english isn't my first language).

I'm not too informed about the roman cermonies, but your claim of marriage only being made by priests in a third of the cases makes sense, particularily in view of the roman society.

Also, note that I'm not advocating that marriage should be a religious thing. I only noted that it was for a lot of time in the west's history.
For this reason it will be hard to get rid of the religious tie.

However, my support goes for marriage being a secular thing only, when it comes to the juridical rights the couple recieved.

neither am I. who is God but me? Who is God but you? WE ARE the ONLY GOD. There is no God, in the Bible, Qo'ran, Tora or any other religion that has accomplished waht e have. LOOKAT US! WE create towers that reach to the sky, as if to pluck the very stars from the sky. Which is why it is my "HOLY" duty, not christian. Self-preservation. Even the simplest organism follows this rule. Are we ment to be less than the animals? NO! we are infinetely superiror!!And we must rid ourselves of this "threat" (however minuscle it can be) to ensure our survival! Just the same as we must ban, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Not because "God" does'nt like it but becuse we must ensure the purityof the genepool if we are to survive. The killings will be just righteous and holy. Round them up, gun them down, burn them on a cross, tear them apart and feed them to the worms of the Earth, drag them out of their beds at night, force them into death camps, nuke their cities, unleash flesh-eating viruses upon them; but kill them, kill them! KILL THEM!WE must maintain order and purity above all, and homosexuality is, by far, the GREATEST ABOMINATION OF ALL.

Clearly sir you have not seen Manos the Hands of Fate.

With that logic: Farmers should be given the ok to marry Sheep......polygama will be ok now......Cheaters on Highway multipassenger lanes, should be aloud to marry blowup dolls...........etc
With one small difference … the things you listed (besides polyamory (or polygamy) ) are not between consenting adults. Homosexual marriage is .

So take your strawman elsewhere

Ah that no one knows. In order to find that out we would have to ask the founding fathers.
Nope... "under God" was added, as I say, in the MacCarthy era because supposedly "godless commies" wouldn't say it...

Erketrum, a JP is a justice of the peace, an English office.

Clearly sir you have not seen Manos the Hands of Fate.
Ihave no idea what that "manos" thing is.

Ah that no one knows. In order to find that out we would have to ask the founding fathers.
The founding fathers did not put that phrase in the pledge … that was added in the 1900’s So asking them would do no good

Ihave no idea what that "manos" thing is.

You are truely blessed then. Not even the gods of MST3K can soften the blows of it.

god is like the word car. car is a type of vehicle. god is a type of being. if there was a car called Car. the 'c' would be upper case. Because it's a name. So when we say God in the pledge. It's The God of the bible.
That is your view.
For me, God is God is God.
All faiths are valid, for they are all equally true. For a given value of truth.

Nope... "under God" was added, as I say, in the MacCarthy era because supposedly "godless commies" wouldn't say it...

Erketrum, a JP is a justice of the peace, an English office.




Well you have me there i guess. I'm way to lazy to trakc down other stuff. so i guess you have the upper hand. But i still think the quire muffins should be shiped away

Well you have me there i guess. I'm way to lazy to trakc down other stuff. so i guess you have the upper hand. But i still think the quire muffins should be shiped away
I think straight.... uh, I dunno... but straight people should be shipped away. (Actually I don't, but just to make an equally ridiculous point)
Where do you want to send us anyway, Madagascar? (I wonder, will yo get that reference?)

neither am I. who is God but me? Who is God but you? WE ARE the ONLY GOD. There is no God, in the Bible, Qo'ran, Tora or any other religion that has accomplished waht e have. LOOKAT US! WE create towers that reach to the sky, as if to pluck the very stars from the sky. Which is why it is my "HOLY" duty, not christian. Self-preservation. Even the simplest organism follows this rule. Are we ment to be less than the animals? NO! we are infinetely superiror!!And we must rid ourselves of this "threat" (however minuscle it can be) to ensure our survival! Just the same as we must ban, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Not because "God" does'nt like it but becuse we must ensure the purityof the genepool if we are to survive. The killings will be just righteous and holy. Round them up, gun them down, burn them on a cross, tear them apart and feed them to the worms of the Earth, drag them out of their beds at night, force them into death camps, nuke their cities, unleash flesh-eating viruses upon them; but kill them, kill them! KILL THEM!WE must maintain order and purity above all, and homosexuality is, by far, the GREATEST ABOMINATION OF ALL.
Have you been reading Nietzsche ?
But if humanity is divine, she can do no fault, because it is she who does it.

To force one view upon the others would thus mean a war of the gods.

Edit: Gah! I swear, spelling that name gives me a headache. No wonder Nietzsche was so angry.

YES to gay marriage

The dimwitted good-for-nothing people of faith can kiss my tanned white arse.

Killing sacred cows since 2005

That is your view.
For me, God is God is God.
All faiths are valid, for they are all equally true. For a given value of truth.


No God is the name of the god of christian, or jews(but they use other name too) Upper case means it's a name! Like Mustang is a type of car. You couldn't rightly call it a GMC yukon could you. You can see gods defferently, But not God. And keep in mind not all faiths worship God.

Nope... "under God" was added, as I say, in the MacCarthy era because supposedly "godless commies" wouldn't say it...

Erketrum, a JP is a justice of the peace, an English office.
Ah, thank you.
When looking back at the posts I saw you had posted the text with the information about the Romans. I hadn't seen that post when I posted.

Thanks for providing it though. It's always nice when people provide texts or links so I can lessen my ignorance. :)
(No, I wasn't sarcastic.)

No God is the name of the god of christian, or jews(but they use other name too) Upper case means it's a name! Like Mustang is a type of car. You couldn't rightly call it a GMC yukon could you. You can see gods defferently, But not God. And keep in mind not all faiths worship God.
Islam does, Judaism does, Hinduism does, etc. Most theistic religions do in fact!

Erk, I try.

neither am I. who is God but me? Who is God but you? WE ARE the ONLY GOD. There is no God, in the Bible, Qo'ran, Tora or any other religion that has accomplished waht e have. LOOKAT US! WE create towers that reach to the sky, as if to pluck the very stars from the sky. Which is why it is my "HOLY" duty, not christian. Self-preservation. Even the simplest organism follows this rule. Are we ment to be less than the animals? NO! we are infinetely superiror!!And we must rid ourselves of this "threat" (however minuscle it can be) to ensure our survival! Just the same as we must ban, drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Not because "God" does'nt like it but becuse we must ensure the purityof the genepool if we are to survive. The killings will be just righteous and holy. Round them up, gun them down, burn them on a cross, tear them apart and feed them to the worms of the Earth, drag them out of their beds at night, force them into death camps, nuke their cities, unleash flesh-eating viruses upon them; but kill them, kill them! KILL THEM!WE must maintain order and purity above all, and homosexuality is, by far, the GREATEST ABOMINATION OF ALL.


Ensure our survival? You advocate murder. How is that survival of the species? How is taking out 10% of the population NOT detrimental to our population? I think murder is the abomination here.

Blurry line? Not according to Calvin or Luther it wasn't; marraige was government-business only!

I searched the entire Book of Concord and could not find your quote from Luther. I did, however, find a whole lot of other ones; "Gen 1:28 teaches that men were created to be fruitful and that one sex should have a proper desire for the other" (Apology of the Augsburg confession, Article 23), in the Large Catechism on the discussion of the Sixth Commandment "... his wife, who is one flesh and blood with him... it is explicitly forbidden here to dishonor his wife" (suspiciously worded like it is Church sanctioned), and in the same discussion "he (God) established [marriage] as the first of all institutions, and he created man and woman differently, not for lewdness but to be true to each other...".

Please use caution when quoting to insure you represent the intent of the author, in this case Martin Luther. No insult or antagonism intended...

Lord's peace,
heroze

Faith is important, but has should not interfere with the politics of any nation. Legal marriage is about money right? Money is unholy (the reason jews were bankers is because the pope would excommunicate bankers), so why should the church rally for any one type of government marriage license? I don't care what one curch or the other does about gay marriage, just have them bugger off of our governments.

Faith is important, but has should not interfere with the politics of any nation. Legal marriage is about money right? Money is unholy (the reason jews were bankers is because the pope would excommunicate bankers), so why should the church rally for any one type of government marriage license? I don't care what one curch or the other does about gay marriage, just have them bugger off of our governments.
Marriage isn't about money, but about a mob of other rights as well.... as well as showing ultimate commitment.

Money is unholy (the reason jews were bankers is because the pope would excommunicate bankers)

Wow. Money is not unholy, according to scripture. Also, the Pope does not make rules for the majority of Christians.

Wow. Money is not unholy, according to scripture. Also, the Pope does not make rules for the majority of Christians.
1 Timothy 6:10; "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

And at the time, on the continent, he was.

No God is the name of the god of christian, or jews(but they use other name too) Upper case means it's a name! Like Mustang is a type of car. You couldn't rightly call it a GMC yukon could you. You can see gods defferently, But not God. And keep in mind not all faiths worship God.
I think you missed my point, or we're just disagreeing.

In my belief, the christain faiths are worshiping one aspect of God, the muslims another and the hinduists yet a third aspect.
Even the Bhuddist who doesn't whorship any God as such, adhers to an aspect of God (love/holding all life sacrosanct).

To me, it doesn't matter. They all worship God, because God is not limited to the definitions put upon Him by humans.

Islam does, Judaism does, Hinduism does, etc. Most theistic religions do in fact!

Erk, I try. well let take a look in history. the oldest one of those religions you named is probly Judaism. And as you may know, goes by the old testament of the bible. So all the other must be spawn off from it...

well let take a look in history. the oldest one of those religions you named is probly Judaism. And as you may know, goes by the old testament of the bible. So all the other must be spawn off from it...
Actually Hinduism is probably the oldest and also probably not related to the others as its an Eastern religion. Do you know anything about Hinduism at all?

The Lord granted freewill to all people ... so let the gays marry.

Actually Hinduism is probably the oldest and also probably not related to the others as its an Eastern religion. Do you know anything about Hinduism at all?

i know there basic beliefs. but not there history. But i do have to wounder if God, upper case 'g', is realy in hinduism. Like please take quotes from what text they may have and show me. And i also don't realy believe that Hinduism is the oldest. Please also show historical facts about that

With one small difference … the things you listed (besides polyamory (or polygamy) ) are not between consenting adults. Homosexual marriage is .
So take your strawman elsewhere
Two consenting adults.......I see child age laws now in jeopardy.

My point was that gays are challenging the traditional marriage. You want it now to be between consenting adults. Others may argue strong points that are beyond your definition. Those are my fears…when does it stop?

Judges don't care about the will of the people. CA already voted that marriage is between a man and a woman. One judge took it upon himself to change the will of the people...declaring it unconstitutional. How he came up with that is unconstitutional.

i know there basic beliefs. but not there history. But i do have to wounder if God, upper case 'g', is realy in hinduism. Like please take quotes from what text they may have and show me. And i also don't realy believe that Hinduism is the oldest. Please also show historical facts about that
Hindu religion pre-dated 3000BCE
While
Jewish history begins during the Bronze age in the Middle East.
From the BBC...
Hindus believe in aspects of the one god Brahma, which is where the idea of polytheism comes from.

i know there basic beliefs. but not there history. But i do have to wounder if God, upper case 'g', is realy in hinduism. Like please take quotes from what text they may have and show me. And i also don't realy believe that Hinduism is the oldest. Please also show historical facts about that

Step 1: go to www.google.com
Step 2: Search for "oldest religion"
Step 3: Find out that the oldest religion is Hinduism and look like an idiot.

Actually Hinduism is probably the oldest and also probably not related to the others as its an Eastern religion. Do you know anything about Hinduism at all?
Yeah, it's really cool!
They have an archer guy with blue skin, a guy with the head of an elephant, and this realy cool gal with six arms and a belt of severed penises!
Lording over it all, but not really, is this everpresent spirit who's like, one with the cosmos man.

Oh, and Shiva is probably the most badass name ever!


((No, I'm not really as ignorant as this post makes me seem. It was just for fun. :p ))

1 Timothy 6:10; "For the love of money is the root of all evil:

So you agree with me. It is the LOVE of money that is the problem, not money. Thanks.

My point was that gays are challenging the traditional marriage.

You mean the traditional arranged marriages that we no longer follow? And look, society has done just fine.

You want it now to be between consenting adults. Others may argue strong points that are beyond your definition. Those are my fears…when does it stop?

1) Who cares?
2) If the definition is between a man and a woman, that doesnt really do much to protect marraige. Wheres the love?

Judges don't care about the will of the people. CA already voted that marriage is between a man and a woman. One judge took it upon himself to change the will of the people...declaring it unconstitutional. How he came up with that is unconstitutional.

Uh, its called the first amendment? You know, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof? Saying marriage is between a man and a woman imposes a religion and blows off all that believe marriage is between any 2 adults that love each other.

While

From the BBC...
Hindus believe in aspects of the one god Brahma, which is where the idea of polytheism comes from.

and there we have it. Hindus clearly don't believe in God, they believe in Brahma. Taken from the bible Worship of the God of abraham( The god of christianity) began from the creation of the world

So you agree with me. It is the LOVE of money that is the problem, not money. Thanks.
Money is power, power corrupts; money makes you love money. Without money you cannot have the love thereof (as Lycurgus said)

and there we have it. Hindus clearly don't believe in God, they believe in Brahma. Taken from the bible Worship of the God of abraham( The god of christianity) began from the creation of the world

Please explain how something Hindu, which was created long before christianity, somehow took something from christianity? Did they travel into the future? Do they know the secret of time travel?

and there we have it. Hindus clearly don't believe in God, they believe in Brahma. Taken from the bible Worship of the God of abraham( The god of christianity) began from the creation of the world
So... Jews don't believe in God as they believe in Jaweh? Muslims don't because they believe in Allah?
And it was the god of the Jews whose worship began at the begining of the world in Genesis, a book proven to be wrong anyway, meaning the whole argument's basis on Genesis is a fatal flaw.

So... Jews don't believe in God as they believe in Jaweh? Muslims don't because they believe in Allah?

Same god by the way!

No shit Sherlock, if you need to see the outcome of the poll to realize that the sampling population is non representative and non random then you may want to stay away from statistics as a career

You did not respond to what I was really stated in my mesg. Gomer. lol

PS All this polls says is that people here are really a minority sampling of America.

Same god by the way!
Exactly my point.

You did not respond to what I was really stated in my mesg. Gomer. lol

PS All this polls says is that people here are really a minority sampling of America.

You do realize this board is made up of people from multiple nations right?

Has there even been a gay opinion on this yet :confused: ... well here's one:

First things first, our love is no differant then your love, we are more natural then skyscrapers and causing the extincation of thousands of species (so that's one reason out the window!) and since when is hetero-marriage holy? Are you telling me Britany Spears 15-hour marriage was holy and right, nope, didn't think so :( .

Many gays also benefit society (I know this is slightly off-topic but "BURN THEM ALL" fits under that too) and I know that every gay male in my class, in-fact ONLY gay males in my class are doing highers (not to say straights or dumb or anything like that). The bible doesn't work, lets face it, ut's full of contradictions, believing in God and His basic messages is fine, even great, but litralists will suffer if they follow the opinios of thousands of years of arrogant priests.

And also (back to marriage) if every couple is pro-reproductive, then were do the orphans go, not to gay couples because of course we've BURNT them, so what?! they rot? is that what you want? AND (apprently) gay marriage figures have shown a very succesful, I think we have a 1 in 200 and something figure for divorce!! (I may be wrong, just what I've heard).

And finally, how can you blame someone for something in which they had no choice? It's not anyone's fault, did I choose this, did I choose to sit in a lonely closet for 15 years to come out to be potentiel ridculed for a further two years in high school? People are MURDERED because of their sexuality, how you could wish that on someone I don't know.

(sorry that was angry, it's only to those bigots down at the white-house and any around here, sorry again ;) )

So... Jews don't believe in God as they believe in Jaweh? Muslims don't because they believe in Allah? Jaweh was a name for God in the old testmament. Allah is the Translation of the god of the old testamment. Keep in mind Both of these religions have the old testmament. so any translation of the name God would speak of the God of the old testmament

Has there even been a gay opinion on this yet :confused: ... well here's one:

First things first, our love is no differant then your love, we are more natural then skyscrapers and causing the extincation of thousands of species (so that's one reason out the window!) and since when is hetero-marriage holy? Are you telling me Britany Spears 15-hour marriage was holy and right, nope, didn't think so :( .

Many gays also benefit society (I know this is slightly off-topic but "BURN THEM ALL" fits under that too) and I know that every gay male in my class, in-fact ONLY gay males in my class are doing highers (not to say straights or dumb or anything like that). The bible doesn't work, lets face it, ut's full of contradictions, believing in God and His basic messages is fine, even great, but litralists will suffer if they follow the opinios of thousands of years of arrogant priests.

And also (back to marriage) if every couple is pro-reproductive, then were do the orphans go, not to gay couples because of course we've BURNT them, so what?! they rot? is that what you want? AND (apprently) gay marriage figures have shown a very succesful, I think we have a 1 in 200 and something figure for divorce!! (I may be wrong, just what I've heard).

And finally, how can you blame someone for something in which they had no choice? It's not anyone's fault, did I choose this, did I choose to sit in a lonely closet for 15 years to come out to be potentiel ridculed for a further two years in high school? People are MURDERED because of their sexuality, how you could wish that on someone I don't know.

(sorry that was angry, it's only to those bigots down at the white-house and any around here, sorry again ;) )
Yes, a number of the posters here are gay.
I read through the first 19 pages, but then I gave up. The thread had 16 pages when i started to read, but at the end, a new page had come into being while I read the one I was at, so I skipped from 19 to 23. ;)

Some good points though. Welcome to the deba... discussio... er, argument.

You did not respond to what I was really stated in my mesg. Gomer. lol

PS All this polls says is that people here are really a minority sampling of America.
Minority sampling would be incorrect (or at least non descriptive)

Non representative would be a better description (as every survey could be considered a “Minority” sampling whatever that means)

Well, I'd kinda like to put out there an opinion I think I first heard from a column that Boy George writes. It's not an argument against legalising gay marriage, but it's an argument against gays marrying. It basically runs that marriage is conformist, and reeks of trying to "fit in". I mean, it could be argued that gay people shouldn't be so eager to join an institution that is messed up in the first place. He also comments that many many straight couples nowadays are opting to not get married and even to keep separate houses. He then goes on to ask whether homosexual couples are getting more hetero, or vice versa? It's interesting.

But as I said, in the column he was fully for ALLOWING gay marriages for those who want them. I personally would still like to believe that the right man'll come along... And I'm hoping that by the time he does, we'll be allowed to get married :D

Neither choice was adequate. Where in the Constitution is Congress authorized to legalize or ban gay marriage? [on p. 1]

Saluton
Damn...good point! Would it be permitted in the "pursuit of happiness" bit? not specifically of course, but...partly as a defense of it???...

Speaking as a gay guy, living in the u.s.a.:

personally, as long as it is called the same, and the same benefits AND responsibilities are given, I am all for it.

it is ego-stroking to be the same thing, but change the name...ie...for those who think marriage is too much, but civil union is okay.

it leads to further discrimination, which leads, in time, to yet another reason for civil war, if the rights and benefits are not the same.

I am one of those g0y/gay guys who does NOT want special rights. A special-interest-group of people become hated when their rights, privledges, and responsibilities are EITHER less OR more then any other group.

Read history. [note to the one warming the chair in the oval office...if he is ever sitting in it, instead of being on holiday!]

how many right-handed, straight, white, pure euro-ancestry, chrisitan, republican, blond haired, blue-eyed people do you know?

all the rest are seen as second class in the u.s.a.

think on this,
Senjoro Rafe
La Rafe Sistemon
The Rafe System

yes. if they wanna get married they should be able to. anyway, the only reason why the republicans brought up the issue is to gain some popularity for the election. the whole gay marriage thing is just an excuse to get our minds off of more urgent issues. whatever...

Gay marriage!

what is USA supposed to be based on???? freedom.. i'm a proud american.. but i realize that we have moved way way too far away from our old free will thoughts... we need more freedom these days

as long as they don't come after me or hit on me.. i'm fine.. let them get married.

No, its unnatural.
Indeed.

If gays can marry, I think we should allow polygamy as well; frankly, if a guy and his favorite sheep were in love, perhaps they should be allowed to marry as well.

What the hell, marry your favorite sex toy.

If gays can marry, I think we should allow polygamy as well; frankly, if a guy and his favorite sheep were in love, perhaps they should be allowed to marry as well.

What the hell, marry your favorite sex toy.
Yes, because marrying a human of the same sex is clearly equal to marrying animals or inanimate objects.

Has there even been a gay opinion on this yet :confused: ... well here's one:

First things first, our love is no differant then your love, we are more natural then skyscrapers and causing the extincation of thousands of species (so that's one reason out the window!) and since when is hetero-marriage holy? Are you telling me Britany Spears 15-hour marriage was holy and right, nope, didn't think so :( .

Many gays also benefit society (I know this is slightly off-topic but "BURN THEM ALL" fits under that too) and I know that every gay male in my class, in-fact ONLY gay males in my class are doing highers (not to say straights or dumb or anything like that). The bible doesn't work, lets face it, ut's full of contradictions, believing in God and His basic messages is fine, even great, but litralists will suffer if they follow the opinios of thousands of years of arrogant priests.

And also (back to marriage) if every couple is pro-reproductive, then were do the orphans go, not to gay couples because of course we've BURNT them, so what?! they rot? is that what you want? AND (apprently) gay marriage figures have shown a very succesful, I think we have a 1 in 200 and something figure for divorce!! (I may be wrong, just what I've heard).

And finally, how can you blame someone for something in which they had no choice? It's not anyone's fault, did I choose this, did I choose to sit in a lonely closet for 15 years to come out to be potentiel ridculed for a further two years in high school? People are MURDERED because of their sexuality, how you could wish that on someone I don't know.

(sorry that was angry, it's only to those bigots down at the white-house and any around here, sorry again ;) )

I see you read my post...heh.
To answer your ques-...er, hm, excuse me, mindless rambling, gays cannot, and will not ever be a productive part of society. Why? Ho ho ho, my dear friend(s) (only the strait ones, all you verminous abominations, do not think for even a second that I am your "friend") there is a simpe reason for this: Gays are not memebers of our society. Maybe members of their own filthy, depraved pitiful attempts at forming a working society, but not members of our sophisticated and efficient Human society. We, as humans, are meant to be infinetley better than the animals with which we share this world, and even they now what evolution and life itself intends of them, can we do any worse? No, we should aspire to more. There will come a day, when we will no longer have need of the pitiful fleshy organs which nature gave us to reproduce. No, we shall create our progeniture in massive, silicon and metal plants where we shall create...ourselves we, have the power, to create life those who depreciate that power (I'm talking about you filthy abominations, not those who choose not to pro-create) are undeserving of their title as masters of the Earth, to choose not to reproduce, that's one thing, but to choose to ignore your power of reproduction, that is, quite simply put, undeserving of your title as humans. And as for killing 10% of the population for ensuring "survival" of course it is correct as a course of action, kill 10% now, before you have to kill more!During the 70's, someone firebombed the GAA (gay activist assoc. or somethin like that, to think that filth like that merit a name is apalling, names imply legitimacy, vermin deserve extermination, but I wish I could have been there, listen to their screams...) why, can't things like this happen today? And as for a ques-...ahem,erm, someone "asked" earlier; well, to be human, one requires a mere 3 things: Intelligence, the desire to live and reproduce (or ensure the survival of the race), and finally, the desire to achieve, to perfect, to succeed, to be more... something you despiccable beings lack, else you would not have fallen form your glory.

No, its unnatural.


It's not unnatural, homosexual behavior occurs in nature all the time. It is, however, not the norm. It would therefore be more accurate to say it's not normal. That doesn't mean it's a sin, anymore than it's a sin to be a redhead (occurs naturally, but it's not the norm).

I really don't understand how anyone with two brain cells to rub together could think that the American people would, for one minute, be fooled by Bush's transparent attempt at distracting us from what's important by trying to make what is, at most, a state's rights issue into a Constitutional issue. Or am I too optimistic about the intelligence of my fellow Americans?

I see you read my post...heh.
To answer your ques-...er, hm, excuse me, mindless rambling, gays cannot, and will not ever be a productive part of society. Why? Ho ho ho, my dear friend(s) (only the strait ones, all you verminous abominations, do not think for even a second that I am your "friend") there is a simpe reason for this: Gays are not memebers of our society. Maybe members of their own filthy, depraved pitiful attempts at forming a working society, but not members of our sophisticated and efficient Human society. We, as humans, are meant to be infinetley better than the animals with which we share this world, and even they now what evolution and life itself intends of them, can we do any worse? No, we should aspire to more. There will come a day, when we will no longer have need of the pitiful fleshy organs which nature gave us to reproduce. No, we shall create our progeniture in massive, silicon and metal plants where we shall create...ourselves we, have the power, to create life those who depreciate that power (I'm talking about you filthy abominations, not those who choose not to pro-create) are undeserving of their title as masters of the Earth, to choose not to reproduce, that's one thing, but to choose to ignore your power of reproduction, that is, quite simply put, undeserving of your title as humans. And as for killing 10% of the population for ensuring "survival" of course it is correct as a course of action, kill 10% now, before you have to kill more!During the 70's, someone firebombed the GAA (gay activist assoc. or somethin like that, to think that filth like that merit a name is apalling, names imply legitimacy, vermin deserve extermination, but I wish I could have been there, listen to their screams...) why, can't things like this happen today? And as for a ques-...ahem,erm, someone "asked" earlier; well, to be human, one requires a mere 3 things: Intelligence, the desire to live and reproduce (or ensure the survival of the race), and finally, the desire to achieve, to perfect, to succeed, to be more... something you despiccable beings lack, else you would not have fallen form your glory.
How often does the NS forum get joke members like this guy?

I see you read my post...heh.
To answer your ques-...er, hm, excuse me, mindless rambling, gays cannot, and will not ever be a productive part of society. Why? Ho ho ho, my dear friend(s) (only the strait ones, all you verminous abominations, do not think for even a second that I am your "friend") there is a simpe reason for this: Gays are not memebers of our society. Maybe members of their own filthy, depraved pitiful attempts at forming a working society, but not members of our sophisticated and efficient Human society. We, as humans, are meant to be infinetley better than the animals with which we share this world, and even they now what evolution and life itself intends of them, can we do any worse? No, we should aspire to more. There will come a day, when we will no longer have need of the pitiful fleshy organs which nature gave us to reproduce. No, we shall create our progeniture in massive, silicon and metal plants where we shall create...ourselves we, have the power, to create life those who depreciate that power (I'm talking about you filthy abominations, not those who choose not to pro-create) are undeserving of their title as masters of the Earth, to choose not to reproduce, that's one thing, but to choose to ignore your power of reproduction, that is, quite simply put, undeserving of your title as humans. And as for killing 10% of the population for ensuring "survival" of course it is correct as a course of action, kill 10% now, before you have to kill more!During the 70's, someone firebombed the GAA (gay activist assoc. or somethin like that, to think that filth like that merit a name is apalling, names imply legitimacy, vermin deserve extermination, but I wish I could have been there, listen to their screams...) why, can't things like this happen today? And as for a ques-...ahem,erm, someone "asked" earlier; well, to be human, one requires a mere 3 things: Intelligence, the desire to live and reproduce (or ensure the survival of the race), and finally, the desire to achieve, to perfect, to succeed, to be more... something you despiccable beings lack, else you would not have fallen form your glory.
Sarcasm?

How often does the NS forum get joke members like this guy?
Often

Human beings go around killing eachother due to their beliefs, for land, for the thrill, for money, etc. Men rape women, people molest children, we kidnap and torture and neglect. Is that your idea of the sophistication and intelligence that gay people are supposedly undermining? Is that how we're better than the animals? At least animals have an excuse, they live by instinct and don't have the reasoning ability we supposedly have as human beings.

If it was sarcasm, i apologize. If not, i feel sorry for you.

Often
Too often.

I see you read my post...heh.
To answer your ques-...er, hm, excuse me, mindless rambling, gays cannot, and will not ever be a productive part of society. Why? Ho ho ho, my dear friend(s) (only the strait ones, all you verminous abominations, do not think for even a second that I am your "friend") there is a simpe reason for this: Gays are not memebers of our society. Maybe members of their own filthy, depraved pitiful attempts at forming a working society, but not members of our sophisticated and efficient Human society. We, as humans, are meant to be infinetley better than the animals with which we share this world, and even they now what evolution and life itself intends of them, can we do any worse? No, we should aspire to more. There will come a day, when we will no longer have need of the pitiful fleshy organs which nature gave us to reproduce. No, we shall create our progeniture in massive, silicon and metal plants where we shall create...ourselves we, have the power, to create life those who depreciate that power (I'm talking about you filthy abominations, not those who choose not to pro-create) are undeserving of their title as masters of the Earth, to choose not to reproduce, that's one thing, but to choose to ignore your power of reproduction, that is, quite simply put, undeserving of your title as humans. And as for killing 10% of the population for ensuring "survival" of course it is correct as a course of action, kill 10% now, before you have to kill more!During the 70's, someone firebombed the GAA (gay activist assoc. or somethin like that, to think that filth like that merit a name is apalling, names imply legitimacy, vermin deserve extermination, but I wish I could have been there, listen to their screams...) why, can't things like this happen today? And as for a ques-...ahem,erm, someone "asked" earlier; well, to be human, one requires a mere 3 things: Intelligence, the desire to live and reproduce (or ensure the survival of the race), and finally, the desire to achieve, to perfect, to succeed, to be more... something you despiccable beings lack, else you would not have fallen form your glory.

I hearby declare you "Whackjob lunatic of the day". Enjoy.

Or am I too optimistic about the intelligence of my fellow Americans?

WAY too optimistic.

they shouldnt be able to get married in a christian church because its against the religious principles of the christian faith and they have every right to deny gays marriage, whether or not this is "ethical" or "fair" you shouldnt be able to deny gay people the right to register their partnership and have the same legal protection as a married couple, after all if they have been living together for the past x amount of years surely they have the same rights to half of everything or whatever is decided in a court just as straight couples do? it shouldnt be a question of it being natural or unnaatural, just about protecting peoples legal rights

No.

So what if they are born with it (which hasn't been proven!)? Others are born with spina bifida (sp?). Does that mean spina bifida is not a problem?

So what if it's genetic (which also hasn't been proven!)? Diabetes is genetic also. Does that mean diabetes isn't a problem?

So what if we see it in nature? We also see cannibalism (sp?). Should we permit cannibalism.

All the arguments for homosexuality to be allowed and accepted do not mean anything. The only arguments that have any weight are that a homosexual relationship is voluntary (the relevancy of that can be debated though) and that it isn't harming anyone (which also can be debated).


Another thing that should have been pointed out: you are referring to 2 diseases here, things that have an inherently negative impact on the life of the person, thus they are not comparable to homosexuality, you only showed one aspect of each... just because 2 things share one thing doesnt mean they are identical or are interchangeable. As for cannibalism it is a type of behavior used by animals for purposes of survival alone, and you would therefore be stating that humans only purpose is to survive, in which case morals shouldnt exist :p

they shouldnt be able to get married in a christian church because its against the religious principles of the christian faith and they have every right to deny gays marriage, whether or not this is "ethical" or "fair" you shouldnt be able to deny gay people the right to register their partnership and have the same legal protection as a married couple, after all if they have been living together for the past x amount of years surely they have the same rights to half of everything or whatever is decided in a court just as straight couples do? it shouldnt be a question of it being natural or unnaatural, just about protecting peoples legal rights
I bet there are a few christian churches that would marry gay couples ... if not now in the next few years

I bet there are a few christian churches that would marry gay couples ... if not now in the next few years

well fair enough, then its up to the discression of whatever the churches governing body is, but the state should certainly recognise the rights of gay couples

I bet there are a few christian churches that would marry gay couples ... if not now in the next few years
There are here in Canada, and there are many in europe as well.

Human beings go around killing eachother due to their beliefs, for land, for the thrill, for money, etc. Men rape women, people molest children, we kidnap and torture and neglect. Is that your idea of the sophistication and intelligence that gay people are supposedly undermining? Is that how we're better than the animals? At least animals have an excuse, they live by instinct and don't have the reasoning ability we supposedly have as human beings.

If it was sarcasm, i apologize. If not, i feel sorry for you.

Do not. I intend to fix all of these problems. Of COURSE I AM Aware of this corruption! But first, we must purify the unclean, then burn the heretic and evil. All those who do something against another "HUMAN" will be punished for their misdeed, afterall justice must be satisfied, but our society is far from perfect and we must fix. Gays/Lesbians/Bi's are only one of the many evils.

Do not. I intend to fix all of these problems. Of COURSE I AM Aware of this corruption! But first, we must purify the unclean, then burn the heretic and evil. All those who do something against another "HUMAN" will be punished for their misdeed, afterall justice must be satisfied, but our society is far from perfect and we must fix. Gays/Lesbians/Bi's are only one of the many evils.
Right behind religous zellots

Do not. I intend to fix all of these problems. Of COURSE I AM Aware of this corruption! But first, we must purify the unclean, then burn the heretic and evil. All those who do something against another "HUMAN" will be punished for their misdeed, afterall justice must be satisfied, but our society is far from perfect and we must fix. Gays/Lesbians/Bi's are only one of the many evils.

Youre one of the many evils. Gays are not.

I am a troll! PH33R ME! BLEAAAARGH!

:D

:D

??? ??? !!!

when did I post that?!^^^^

??? ??? !!!

when did I post that?!^^^^
He read between the lines

The powers of irony are lost on me!

I AM INVINCIBLE! BWAHAHAHAHAH!

*rolls on the floor, laughing*

*rolls on the floor, laughing*
Hahahhaaha

I nominate you for winner of the thread!

I feel there is no good reason for disallowing civil marriages for gays.

They are not going to be interested in people of the opposite gender, so it's not as if gay marriage is taking potential mates off the market.

And people must be VERY insecure if they think what another couple does in their personal relationship has any bearing whatsoever on their relationship with their own spouse.

There is a double standard here regarding "the sanctity of marriage". After all, nobody complains of divorce and ITS effect on the sanctity of marriage....
It's not that it affects us, it is just that the concept is just wrong. And i am against divorce! Am i nobody? Don't say yes bitch! Anyway, someone told me that gays are as 'straight' as non-gays. But that isn't true. If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!

Hahahhaaha

I nominate you for winner of the thread!
*Dances the dance of victory, and accepts the honors gladly*

I always slap my forehead whenever I see someone trying to use reason against a troll. Everyone knows there are only two ways to slay the beasts: a blast of I.G.N.O.R.E cannons, or make them see their own relfexion through humoristic comments that don't take what they say seriously.

It's not that it affects us, it is just that the concept is just wrong. And i am against divorce! Am i nobody? Don't say yes bitch! Anyway, someone told me that gays are as 'straight' as non-gays. But that isn't true. If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!
Dude, I'm gay, not infertile. If I ever chose to do so, I could knock a woman up just like any other guy here.

It's not that it affects us,

If it doesn't affect you, then stop complaining it about it; it's none of your business.

I find American football to be "just wrong," but I don't think it should be banned, or its players denied equal rights.

hear Hear!

Nice.
and good job ska-somethin, (responsible for the Ia m a troll PH33R me! Bleaarghhh! thing)
Even I had to laugh, especially with the Bleaaarghhh! thing!!!
hahahaha.

hear Hear!

Nice.
and good job ska-somethin, (responsible for the Ia m a troll PH33R me! Bleaarghhh! thing)
Even I had to laugh, especially with the Bleaaarghhh! thing!!!
hahahaha.
:D I'm glad you can take me poking a little fun at you with good grace. I'm pretty sure just by your wording you're just saying those things to get reactions, not because you really think them. Still, be careful not to get caught, as trolling is against forum rules, methinks.

Anyway, someone told me that gays are as 'straight' as non-gays. But that isn't true. If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!
The natural reproduction argument only works if you think that straight couples should have to have their own biological children, not just adopt, and if you think that infertile couples also shouldn't get married and aren't straight. (After all, they can't naturally reproduce together, either!)

I hearby declare you "Whackjob lunatic of the day". Enjoy.

I second the motion!

I voted yes

Civil Union---Marriage

I think everyone should study semantics.

I voted "yes" because although I find it a bit...odd I have nothing against the people I just don't understand anyone would be gay. I don't mean this to be offensive to any gay person who may see it, it's just well I am very...homophobic...there I atmitted it (seriously though I have no problem with gay people its just I find it weird (for lack of a better word)).

Doesn't mean you're homophobic, it just means you're a fairly heterosexual guy. Most straight people have some reversion to homosexual behaviours just because they're straight and don't see things from the opposite end of the sexuality scale.

I voted "yes" because although I find it a bit...odd I have nothing against the people I just don't understand anyone would be gay. I don't mean this to be offensive to any gay person who may see it, it's just well I am very...homophobic...there I atmitted it (seriously though I have no problem with gay people its just I find it weird (for lack of a better word)).

I also voted yes. I'm all for peoples freedoms. But I too am homophobic. I don't hate them, but the vast majority of gays that I know have that horrible high pitched voice and tend to elongate certain words. I just can't stand it. Every time I hear it I want to remove their voice box. So I try to distance myself from them. I don't hate gays, but I also don't like anything about them.

I also voted yes. I'm all for peoples freedoms. But I too am homophobic. I don't hate them, but the vast majority of gays that I know have that horrible high pitched voice and tend to elongate certain words. I just can't stand it. Every time I hear it I want to remove their voice box. So I try to distance myself from them. I don't hate gays, but I also don't like anything about them.
I want to know where the hell all of you come from … up here we have next to 0 of those campy style homosexuals. Sometimes I wonder if people are not just making most of it up to try and justify things.

I want to know where the hell all of you come from … up here we have next to 0 of those campy style homosexuals. Sometimes I wonder if people are not just making most of it up to try and justify things.


Australia. What about you?

If I wanted to hate someone, I wouldn't need a justification.:rolleyes:

I'm against it, to be honest. Not out of bigotry, but respect I guess for marriage.


This has to be one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen here. Not out of bigotry? What respect for marriage? Marriage is a social contract, nothing more, nothing less. The main reason people are against gay marriage is because of their own moralistic and religious views.

They typical reasoning by evangelicals and the like usually goes something like this: "My bible says homosexuality is evil, and since I'm not one I am superior and gays are inferior, because they are evil and will burn in hell. And I'm not going to alow inferior beings to elevate themselves to my station. And thats why I don't support gays getting married."

This is the stance a lot of "christians" are taking on this issue. If the church refuses to recognize gay marriage, fine, no problem. But the state must guarantee that right to ALL citizens.

This legislation will not pass, because most people see it for what it is, as another stab at trying to rally the conservative base Bush has steadily lost the past few years. This is not a new issue either, this has been batted around in the US since the late 80s. Will the US join Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa and the Netherlands in legalising gay marriage? Not anytime soon, sadly enough.

Australia. What about you?

If I wanted to hate someone, I wouldn't need a justification.:rolleyes:
Minnesota but I have been all over the us ... the only time I ever hear really campy fellow homo's is in a parade or something

There are more feminine ones yes but we just dont get anything like that anywhere I have been

If anyone would beat you up for being gay, I would want them thrown in jail. I am not preaching hatred. You can love each other, I don't care about that, but if you want to get married, then go to Canada or the Netherlands. We don't have to bend over backwards(No pun intended) to please you.

What you don't understand is that you don't have to bend over backwards. If I choose to marry a man I love, it does not "attack" your marriage. What I do in the privacy of my home is none of your business. The same applies to me, what you do in the privacy of your home is none of my business. It does NOT affect me.

I don't want you to please me, hell...you don't even have to accept me personally. What you do have to do is to get your nose out of my business. I don't protest and say "traditional" marriage is under attack when the guy next door cheats on his wife, I don't cry out that "traditional" marriage is under attack when heterosexuals (who have abused the right of marriage by failing to take responsibility for their relationships) divorce at right on a 60% clip, and finally I do not look on in disgust when you hold hands or kiss your wife, girlfriend or significant other of the opposite sex and say "that's icky," I find love to be a highly desirable and commendable state of affairs, since this world has precious little enough of that around anyway.

Why should I move to Canada or the Netherlands to get married? I was BORN HERE, I am a citizen of the United States born with the same inalienable rights as you. I have fought for my country in the military (even though intolerant assholes say that being gay somehow mysteriously invalidates my 22.5 years of service to my country), and you enjoy that nice comfy sleep at night because a QUEER like me had the guts to stand a post and put my life on the line JUST LIKE STRAIGHT GUYS. I'm gay, if you don't like that, fine. But don't you dare suggest that I don't have same FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS as you do.

Is that the royal "we?" Speak for yourself.

This has to be one of the most hypocritical things I have ever seen here. Not out of bigotry? What respect for marriage? Marriage is a social contract, nothing more, nothing less. The main reason people are against gay marriage is because of their own moralistic and religious views.

They typical reasoning by evangelicals and the like usually goes something like this: "My bible says homosexuality is evil, and since I'm not one I am superior and gays are inferior, because they are evil and will burn in hell. And I'm not going to alow inferior beings to elevate themselves to my station. And thats why I don't support gays getting married."

This is the stance a lot of "christians" are taking on this issue. If the church refuses to recognize gay marriage, fine, no problem. But the state must guarantee that right to ALL citizens.

This legislation will not pass, because most people see it for what it is, as another stab at trying to rally the conservative base Bush has steadily lost the past few years. This is not a new issue either, this has been batted around in the US since the late 80s. Will the US join Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa and the Netherlands in legalising gay marriage? Not anytime soon, sadly enough.

Well, I think the concept of marriage comes from the bible, churches, general religiosity, the temporeal, whatever. For a state to ORDER a church - if such would be the case - to marry people against it's doctrine would be wrong.

I say, attack it arse on (no pun intended) and banish the word "marriage" from all federal documents and points of referance. Now we have state civil unions for ALL, and marriage can remain in the respective religous house of whatever religion is involved.

they should be banned.


listen, it's not a question of ethics or morels. it's not wether they should be happy or not. it's about seperatation of church and state. Think about it. what is marrige. is it not a union of two people in the face of god, wether ahalla, yawhee, or whoever. look at the animal world. do animals marry, no. marrige came to be because of religion. really, marrige is nothing without religion. thus, it is Unconstitutional for the goverment to interfere in something that without religion, wouldn't exist. what should happen is that delagets from each major relgion decide what should happen for their relgion. and the government should step out of the church.

That's actually somewhat inaccurate. There are SEVERAL species of mammals, birds, and possibly even fish and reptiles that mate in MONOGAMOUS PAIRS for LIFE. That is our equivalence of marriage. They have no need for ceremony because it's rather pointless. But guess what. There are reports of HOMOSEXUAL MONOGAMOUS PAIRS. So if certain gay animals can pair up in the wild, why can't we?

I'm a gay Christian. Do I believe that I should have the right to get married? Yes. Should I have the right to adopt a child? Yes. Do I want to? Not really. But just because I believe in a certain religion doesn't mean that I believe all facets of the religion are correct. The bible may have been inspired by God, but it was written and translated by man, and it is obvious that bias filtered into the translations.

Certain translations of the bible are INTENTIONALLY mistranslated to speak against homosexuality when the original version only speaks of a two men not sleeping in the marriage bed. That's ALL. Back in those days, when two people were married, the woman was carried off into the back room and they had intercourse. The bible only says you can't do that with a man. It doesn't say that homosexuality is wrong, or that two men or women can't get married. It just says you can't sleep in the marriage bed which doesn't even exist in modern culture.

Neither. Let them have civil unions, but leave it up to religious institutions to decide on marriage- marriage is a religious institution, after all.

Marriage is not a religious institution... It is coordinated by the state.

Im against gay marriage for religous reasons. The old testement refers to homosexuality as an abomination against God. And throughout the bible in many places it says that marriage is between a man and a women.

I think that people have the right to their opinions dont call me "close minded" or the like because IT is not your "right" nowhere in the Constitution are you given the "right" to marriage but we all have the right to our opinions and free speech and thats why we have this very hot topic debate.

1. The Constitution does not give rights... It enumerates pre-existing ones.
2. The Constitution is not a complete enumeration of ones possessed rights.

You receive a resounding F in Civics.

Minnesota but I have been all over the us ... the only time I ever hear really campy fellow homo's is in a parade or something

There are more feminine ones yes but we just dont get anything like that anywhere I have been


What an odd country. :p

Because of Adam and Eve. Most people don't like that, but that's the argument. Can any government be free of religious influence? And if it's free of relgious influence, can it refrain from hurting relgions?

My answer to both is no. And that's a discussion for another thread. But because my relgious beliefs demand that God's Law influence all parts of my life and my society (including government) I must insist that homosexuality be recognized as a problem which leads to sin and homosexual couples be refused any recognition under the law.

I believe on similar grounds as you do... Except I have not perverted God's word to my own ends to demand and force compliance to His Law upon unbelievers... It's amazing someone like your would simutaneously laud the word of God while pissing all over it....

What if some of us believe thatn the Church and the state should be one? Ah, but this is a topic for another thread.

You are most certainly free to believe that... Try to put into power, however, and you will be executed.

As I said before, the Church and the state are one. I do not have time to explain it now, but TG Sol Giuldor and we can continue this debate later.

God in His immortal wisdom has raised up men to create a state wherein institutionalized religion (the Church) is no longer its master, nor one that could be master over the church.... And yet, Sol Giuldor has spit in God's face and denied God His own wisdom to do this act, because Sol Giuldor knows better than God, and has decided to raise himself and other puny men into the place of God.

I voted No simply to go against the majority. I really dont have a stance on the issue...

My issue with banning same sex marriage is that you are giving men and women different rights. A woman only has the right to marry a man, and a man only has the right to marry a woman.

Not allowing consenting adults to marry if they are both male, takes away from them a right that females have. That's kinda sexist, isn't it?

My issue with banning same sex marriage is that you are giving men and women different rights. A woman only has the right to marry a man, and a man only has the right to marry a woman.

Not allowing consenting adults to marry if they are both male, takes away from them a right that females have. That's kinda sexist, isn't it?

Not at all. It balances out when a woman marries a woman.

Why not a third option? "States' Rights to declare for themselves whether or not to allow such an act." A similar line of thought is being requested for abortion and various drugs.

Personally that would be fair, except the Fundies and other such like would never go for it... since that would require them to be tollerant, considering they would have to allow and recognize still the union when such a couple moved from the state which allowed such a union to the state which did not.

While it may be true that religion, or lack thereof, influences how one reacts to an occurence; I don't believe that just because the Pope, Dali-Lama, or Rabbi tells you something is against your religion that you should deny someone the civil liberty of being legaly bound by the state. Because like Isaac Asimov said: "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." And I think that whatever the church may tell us, it is wrong to deny these people, who through no fault of their own love someone of the same sex and want to live with them without being critisized and without becoming outcasts in our society (as it seems to me like they are fast becoming now). I may be unconfortable with the idea of people of the same sex being married, but the fact remains that it should be their right to do so if they so choose.

If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!People can't reproduce with male geese, whether they be opposite or not. :p

I will never understand all the problems with this issue, if people want to get married and they are of the same sex so what? Its not like they are asking for permission to force people into marrying them, its something they both want.

At the end off the day life is short, if something makes you happy and it harms no one else, go for it.

Well let me put it this way.....a few points.

Don't take one part of your Word, and use it to condemn a specific group when the majority of the society is not even abiding by the rest of the Word.

Jesus was a healer, an embodiment of God's Love on Earth, and had beautiful teachings. Do you think he wants his children to be prosecuters, persecuting people? Christians should use the beauty of God's teachings to lead people to Jesus, if they want to lead any one, not condemn people and continue to act like the Rabbis and Romans did in persecuting Jesus. Any one remember the prostitute "Thou shalt not cast the first stone"?

Jesus stood up for minorities and outcasts, not always agreeing with what they did, but understanding that people should not be persecuted.

As far as this issue, an amendment against gay marriage is ridiculous. How does anyone have the nerve to deny anyone a personal choice, and equal rights under the law. The United States is about Freedom and Equal Rights. Equal rights does not mean telling two people that are in love, living and supporting one another that they cannot get married.

Oh but I guess it is perfectly alright for the man who is beating up on his wife or cheating on his wife to be married to her, their just the image of the American dream and whats right about the United States? Or the huge divorce rate? I mean how could you possibly reach from your sphere of personal life, into somebody else's personal life, and tell them they should not have equal rights? Really look deep within and ask the true point and look at what is going on. How do you have the right to condemn somebody else for something their doing that does not even affect you. Trust me, stopping gay marriage is not going to stop gay people.

Gay people will continue to be together, and be in public as well as louder than ever I am sure until they get what they feel is equal rights. They might as well be married, I mean its not like your protecting your children or anything by not giving them the right to marry, their going to be together and hold hands in public any way.

Your just saying they don't deserve equal legal rights as you do, and so this will make them even louder and more in your faces. I am sure the recent GAY MARRIAGE AMENDMENT Headlines on the News and Paper and debate has done more to bring children and people who you don't want influenced to the culture more than anything else has. In fact, I am sure EVERYONE is getting an education about homosexuality now since its all over the news and papers. And imagine, if they just got their equal rights, the news could be covering something more important, like the War in Iraq.

Furthermore...
The Bible condemns fornication (sex before marriage) far more than it does homosexuality, in many more verses. Do you want the State to make laws against fornication, so if you have sex with someone outside of marriage it is illegal? If your going to condemn homosexual people marrying because of the "Bible" or a society based on "Christian values" lets make sure the law enforces all the values, not just one? But I guess the point is moot...if you realized it, youd realize you were going by what society says is alright and is marginally acceptable and legal (Fornication) but homosexuality to Christians is a HUGE issue and damnable more than anything yet thats not what the Bible indicates. Did you tell a lie recently?.....

It's not that it affects us, it is just that the concept is just wrong. And i am against divorce! Am i nobody? Don't say yes bitch! Anyway, someone told me that gays are as 'straight' as non-gays. But that isn't true. If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!

Name calling will get you absolutely no where, especially towards a moderator, of all people. Knock it off.

Well let me put it this way.....a few points.


*snip*


Everything you said is completely true. Thank you.

*SNIP*

*applauds* :)

I voted yes. Marriage in the United States is no longer and hasn't been sacred in quite some time. Divorce rates are sky high and the nuclear family is almost non-existant anymore. I say that if the gay community wants to marry, and wants to be as miserable as the rest of the people in marriage....then let them. Who the fuck cares if they cannot reproduce? It's grand to know that less idiots will be born because of it. Besides, who are we to deny their rights?

Sol should probably get it through his head that if the church and state are one, then it is imposing a belief on the people. When a belief is imposed, its NO LONGER A FRIGGIN BELIEF, ITS TYRANNY. This is the thing our founding fathers fought and died to eliminate. By Sol saying this, he is insulting every man that has died to create this country.

Several decent points were stated in this thread. One of which is the notion that Marriage is a religious ideology. For those people who are denied marriage in the United States, why do you not sue for your right to marry under the First Ammendment. Since the government is supposed to have a seperation of Church and State, then one could attempt to argue that the idea of state marriage lisences is unconstitutional. I do not think it would work, but it would be interesting of someone tried.
Personally I would like to see the government out of the marriage business all together … let religions have marriage, and the state provide ONLY unions, for any consenting adults.

It's not that it affects us, it is just that the concept is just wrong. And i am against divorce! Am i nobody? Don't say yes bitch! Anyway, someone told me that gays are as 'straight' as non-gays. But that isn't true. If people can only naturally reproduce through sex with the opposite gander, how the hell can anyone else be 'straight' in that sense?!!!

Boy, did someone wake up on the wrong side of the warren or what?

Personally I would like to see the government out of the marriage business all together … let religions have marriage, and the state provide ONLY unions, for any consenting adults.

Yeah but see, that would make sense, and we dont do that here in America.

I voted No simply to go against the majority. I really dont have a stance on the issue...

yeah right:rolleyes:

I voted No simply to go against the majority. I really dont have a stance on the issue...
I hope you don't partake in national or state elections with that attitude....

I also voted yes. I'm all for peoples freedoms. But I too am homophobic. I don't hate them, but the vast majority of gays that I know have that horrible high pitched voice and tend to elongate certain words. I just can't stand it. Every time I hear it I want to remove their voice box. So I try to distance myself from them. I don't hate gays, but I also don't like anything about them.

most of the ones I know are regular masculine looking acting guys and so am I, that person you describe are one of the few* more umm for a lack of a better word flamier types. Unfortunately this is the stereotype of gay men that straight guy see, that flaming gay dude, but serious most are average joes that respect straight dudes and just want to be treated equally.

most of the ones I know are regular masculine looking acting guys and so am I, that person you describe are one of the few* more umm for a lack of a better word flamier types. Unfortunately this is the stereotype of gay men that straight guy see, that flaming gay dude, but serious most are average joes that respect straight dudes and just want to be treated equally.
Yup, basically. Most people have no clue I'm gay. In fact, I was called gay FAR more often before I came to terms with myself than I am now. Most people can't even tell unless I cling to a guy or something.

Also to add to that, usually the straight acting masculine, guy is usually attracted to another straight acting masculine, guy at least that is the culture of today younger gay guys. They think if they wanted a flaming queen type guy, they would rather be with a real woman. that's that I usually get from all my gay friends that I have.

Yes.

Homosexuality Is A Sin. Accept It People.

Homosexuality Is A Sin. Accept It People.

Keep throwing stones...

Homosexuality Is A Sin. Accept It People.
A) Which, of course, has nothing to do with the laws of secular nation, and

B) People who don't subscribe to your religion are not likely to care whether you think it's a sin or not, are they?

Originally Posted by UpwardThrust
Personally I would like to see the government out of the marriage business all together … let religions have marriage, and the state provide ONLY unions, for any consenting adults.
Yep. :)

Yeah but see, that would make sense, and we dont do that here in America.
And yep. :(

Im against gay marriage for religous reasons. The old testement refers to homosexuality as an abomination against God. And throughout the bible in many places it says that marriage is between a man and a women.

I think that people have the right to their opinions dont call me "close minded" or the like because IT is not your "right" nowhere in the Constitution are you given the "right" to marriage but we all have the right to our opinions and free speech and thats why we have this very hot topic debate.

Old testement? Interesting Freudian slip.
While I see why you hold your beliefs, please remember that not everyone is Christian - nor even religious. Since the Constituition and government are supposed to reflect the will of all the people -- not just the Christian people -- such an amendment as the "preservation of marriage" or whatever it's called these days would be, in fact, discriminatory.

If someone wants to suck their own feces from their lovers' meatus, that's cool. Just don't come to work smelling like it please. Nasty mofos.


Nice. And warned.

Think about what your people are promoting. In fact scrap that comment. Two men= Two hairy bung holes!! We are setting the wrong example for a more decent society. Myself I prefer the muff. My question to the gay man is, what is it about another mans hairy asshole that turns you on? I just can’t fathom the thought: Im sure your parents are so proud of you!!!:sniper:


I note from your omission you don't seem to have a problem with two ladies being together.

Homosexuality Is A Sin. Accept It People.

Yeah, but thats what YOU think. You, not everyone.

Many things are constituted as sins in accordance to the bible, what makes homosexuality any different? I hate it when people select which sins are worse.

You can believe that homosexuality is a sin all you want, but that doesnt change the fact that homosexuality exists in all aspects of any given society in this world. You must learn to accept THIS.

Nothing. women really should wax.

You first! What's good for the goose...

Totally agreed.
But you're still going to get the "well, them gays' lifestyle is directly harming me and my families christian moral".


If that is the argument, then some of my Christian brothers and sisters are VERY insecure in their faith if they think that the examples of others can destroy what they themselves believe.

Because of Adam and Eve. Most people don't like that, but that's the argument. Can any government be free of religious influence? And if it's free of relgious influence, can it refrain from hurting relgions?

My answer to both is no. And that's a discussion for another thread. But because my relgious beliefs demand that God's Law influence all parts of my life and my society (including government) I must insist that homosexuality be recognized as a problem which leads to sin and homosexual couples be refused any recognition under the law.

Does that make me intolerant? Oh, yes. So don't bother telling me. You can curse me if you like, but I can do nothing else.


You know, Christians were persecuted in the years of the religion. They would do well to remember that when they get on their intolerant high horses.

Those who claim to be Christian yet are gay and have gay sex and lust, yet claim it is normal, do not deserve to be called Christians.
You see, your ignorance about Christianty leads you to attack it terribly, as only ignorant fools ignore the truth of Christ. Apparently, you yourself are ordering others to conform, so stop that argument right now. It is our DUTY as Christians to STAND AGAINST immorality and to SPREAD the truth of our fiath. In reality, the gays are the "wackjob protest junkies"


You seem to be making a faulty leap in judgment here.
Who said ANY, never mind ALL, homosexuals count themselves as Christian or are demanding to be married in a church?

The attempt to block civil marriages is what is being discussed here.

Quite simply put, it is NATURAL and NORMAL. Homosexualtiy is NOT, it is a MENTAL ILLNESS that is UNCURABLE. They must cope with their condition.


Not according to the DSM-IV, which is the bible for diagnosing mental disorders. Try again.

Ah, if not a mental illness then an illness of the soul. I am not judging, I am simply stating that homosexuality is NOT natural, the Holy Family was NOT Joseph, Bob and Jesus. Jesus ALSO said that he who did not follow the commandments would be cast into the inferno. Gays are breaking the commandments.


Not everyone is Christian. And not all Christian sects are against homeosexuality -- as should be evident in openly homosexual officiants.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030608-124346-1938r.htm

This is a typical Anarchist attitude, one devoid of any moral fiber.


This is a typical Conservative attitude, one devoid of any compassion, desperate to control others, and intolerant of the thought that anyone can hold a different viewpoint.

As I said before, the Church and the state are one. I do not have time to explain it now, but TG Sol Giuldor and we can continue this debate later.

Incorrect, at least in the United States. This is not a Theocracy yet.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

And also, f*ck religion in this case. The US was founded by cathlics and thats why are goverment acts like the pope with a shot gun and crack.(no offense to the guy) The costituition talks about freedom and says everyone is free. Well taking away someones right to marry who the f*ck they want is taking away one of those freedoms. Also taking a way someones right to marry who they love is predgidous.

By CATHOLICS? are you quite sure?

(I love ranting)

Any to f*cking arrogant to treat gay people with resect should burn cause they aren't helping anybody


Trolling. Stop now.

Ok shut the f*ck up about teh judging stuff. The only judge that really matters in this Thread is teh kind that marries people. So please drop it

Warned. Flaming.

Homosexuality Is A Sin. Accept It People.

The Seven Deadly Sins for your edification.

1. Superbia/Pride
2. Invidia/Envy
3. Ira/Anger
4. Avaritia/Avarice
5. Tristia/Sadness
6. Gula/Gluttony
7. Luxuria/Lust

Back reading all of your posts you have exhibited Pride, Envy and Anger.

To put this bluntly, sonny boy, you need to work on yourself before you come knocking on my door.

If I didn't hint hard enough in my other two posts, I'll be blunt here. Keep your nose out of my affairs. My relationship with God is none of your business. My relationship with my significant other is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

You are arrogant, prideful and thoroughly unqualified to sit in judgement over me. Go away now, little man...shoo.

Sex is not meant to be enjoyed, it is meant for reproduction.

Then why did God make it so pleasurable?

Contraceptives should be illegal as a matter of fact.

Why should you care about other people and their procreation?
Unless all the anti-contraceptive people plan on raising unwanted kids, leave contraception alone.

People do not need to have sex all the time after marriage.


You contradict yourself. You said earlier it created intimacy. Now you want to prohibit the intimacy of a married couple?

*shakes head*

Ok since enough people have tried to defend the anti-homosexual view, please explain the benefits of homosexuality?
i like a balanced arguement

Intimacy with a person that you love. You know, like heterosexuals get.
Being able to be with someone you are attracted to. You know, like heterosexuals get. Being in a stable, long term relationship with someone who loves and respects you. You know....

Then why did God make it so pleasurable?
Just to spite the st00pid fundies who feel guilty after their yearly attempt at reproduction to have liked it so much.

Heck, I'm certain the big guy up there has a sense of humor.

I could say your opinions are unfounded and ignorant to. I know the facts. I have decided that I just think gay marriage is wrong. The only reason they want to get married is so they get a bunch of financial benefits, which totally defeats the purpose of marriage.
Untrue. They want to have their civil union recognized by the state to have the same protections as married couples: being able to speak for their loved one's wishes when the loved on can no longer... to avoid being thrown out of the home they've built and shared with their loved one upon their loved one's death, to be able to place their loved one on their insurance just like any other married couple...

The idea that anyone can class it as merely a mercenary concern shows precisely how close-minded, bigoted, and antagonistic people are about this. Why should they NOT have the same benefits as any other committed couple, other than the fact that some people think their union icky?

the problem being that there are drawbacks including the tax increase as we have to pay for treatment for sexually transmitted drugs because of homosexuals. im not saying that all this is becuase of homosexuals but in some countries it costs us a pretty penny


We have to pay for organ transplants.
We have to pay for fertility treatments.
We have to pay for cosmetic surgery.
We have to pay for childbirth.
We have to pay for sexually transmitted diseases in the heterosexual population.
We have to pay for AIDS drugs for children born to mothers with AIDS and for people who got it through tainted blood transfusions.

So your point exactly...?

Then go to somewhere in Canada and get married. Not every country has to allow it. Its called soverignty.

That's right, and NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE living in the country you so blithely tell them to leave agree with you.

Well what if I loved an animal? Should I be allowed to marry an animal?

Are you equating homosexuals with animals now?

If anyone would beat you up for being gay, I would want them thrown in jail. I am not preaching hatred. You can love each other, I don't care about that, but if you want to get married, then go to Canada or the Netherlands. We don't have to bend over backwards(No pun intended) to please you.

Who precisely is "we"?

Doesn't exist in the Constitution. All it says is freedom "of" religion, not freedom "from" religion.

Baloney.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

There. There is NO established religion of the US -- no OFFICIAL religion. Says so right in the first sentence of the first amendment.

I already consider you equal to me, but I just don't think you need to get married.

Funny. The more you say, the more ridiculous and untenable your position appears.

You cannot consider someone equal if you do not afford them the same rights. I suggest a quick reread of Plessy v. Ferguson and Brown v the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, where that idea was thrown out as unconstitutional.

This issue is just as stupid as the issue of blacks drinking out of public water fountains. The only reason for forbidding it is plain old bigotry. I don't really mind, but at least own up to your own dispicable character.

From a purely economic standpoint, opening marriage to gay would eventually destroy a country.
Why? It's not my cup of tea, but I see absolutely no harm in it.
I don't understand why gays would even want to get married except to flout victory at pushing forward an agenda.
By that reasoning, "I don't understand why heterosexuals want to keep marriage an elitist exclusive club, except to feel superior in some way because they have withheld a basic human right from others.
Most gays do not participate to life long mahoganies relationships anyway. My stand and the stand of my country is marriage is between one man and one woman, instituted for life.

The word is monogamous; mahogany is wood. And I would not talk about monogamous relationships anyway in a country where the rate of divorce is projected at anywhere between 43-50%, depending on whom you ask.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/10/31/walking_the_walk_on_family_values/
This, however, I found quite interesting.

I consider the people who harmed you to be pieces of worthless shit that I hope burn in hell.

Not a particularly Christian attitude.

well thats what happens, someone tries to help smooth things over between two sides which hate each others guts and in the end one side turns on them, if you were smart enough to notice i was trying to evaluate both sides of the story but since you happy getting no where ill leave it be :headbang:

P.s, if im driving and a gay crosses the street, i speed up ;)

Warned. Trolling.

No. Let them have the same legal rights as partners (hospital visitation and the like) but to allow them to marry is out of the question.

For what reason?

Well in The pledge of Allegiance, The words " One nation under God" come up. And therefore if our nation is under God. And God clearly says homosexuality is wrong. Gay marriages should be banned

Which God? Does it say One Nation Under The Christian God?

Besides, that argument is weak, given that those words were added in the 1950s to the original pledge to help combat communism; additionally, the courts have ruled that it is unconstitutional to require anyone to repeat those particular words or the pledge at all.

http://www.socialstudiesforkids.com/articles/ushistory/pledgeofallegiancehistory.htm
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2004/03/24_choper.shtml

No God is the name of the god of christian, or jews(but they use other name too) Upper case means it's a name! Like Mustang is a type of car. You couldn't rightly call it a GMC yukon could you. You can see gods defferently, But not God. And keep in mind not all faiths worship God.

I can say quite definitely that my God is not YOUR God.
And for that, I am truly thankful.
Amen.

Wow. Money is not unholy, according to scripture. Also, the Pope does not make rules for the majority of Christians.

Money is just a tool. Money is not the problem. LUSTING for it is.
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.

I voted no, luckily ns is not representive of the American public.

I voted no, luckily ns is not representive of the American public.
Considering the American public is generally uninformed and looks to escapes from reality, I would rephrase that to 'unfortunately'.

I see you read my post...heh.
To answer your ques-...er, hm, excuse me, mindless rambling, gays cannot, and will not ever be a productive part of society. Why? Ho ho ho, my dear friend(s) (only the strait ones, all you verminous abominations, do not think for even a second that I am your "friend") there is a simpe reason for this: Gays are not memebers of our society. Maybe members of their own filthy, depraved pitiful attempts at forming a working society, but not members of our sophisticated and efficient Human society. We, as humans, are meant to be infinetley better than the animals with which we share this world, and even they now what evolution and life itself intends of them, can we do any worse? No, we should aspire to more. There will come a day, when we will no longer have need of the pitiful fleshy organs which nature gave us to reproduce. No, we shall create our progeniture in massive, silicon and metal plants where we shall create...ourselves we, have the power, to create life those who depreciate that power (I'm talking about you filthy abominations, not those who choose not to pro-create) are undeserving of their title as masters of the Earth, to choose not to reproduce, that's one thing, but to choose to ignore your power of reproduction, that is, quite simply put, undeserving of your title as humans. And as for killing 10% of the population for ensuring "survival" of course it is correct as a course of action, kill 10% now, before you have to kill more!During the 70's, someone firebombed the GAA (gay activist assoc. or somethin like that, to think that filth like that merit a name is apalling, names imply legitimacy, vermin deserve extermination, but I wish I could have been there, listen to their screams...) why, can't things like this happen today? And as for a ques-...ahem,erm, someone "asked" earlier; well, to be human, one requires a mere 3 things: Intelligence, the desire to live and reproduce (or ensure the survival of the race), and finally, the desire to achieve, to perfect, to succeed, to be more... something you despiccable beings lack, else you would not have fallen form your glory.


Warned for flaming and trolling.

1. The Constitution does not give rights... It enumerates pre-existing ones.
2. The Constitution is not a complete enumeration of ones possessed rights.

You receive a resounding F in Civics.

Indeed.

Amendment IX - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Just to spite the st00pid fundies who feel guilty after their yearly attempt at reproduction to have liked it so much.

Heck, I'm certain the big guy up there has a sense of humor.

Absolutely.

How else to explain: the platypus, the giraffe, the avocado?

Wow go kat setin them up and knockin them down

Wow go kat setin them up and knockin them down
Indeed. Remind me NOT to get into an argument with Kat. ;)

Nice. And warned.
warned? I said please. Ffrrrrttttt, I hope my gas doesn't arouse you too much.

Absolutely.

How else to explain: the platypus, the giraffe, the avocado?

Dinosaurs...

warned? I said please. Ffrrrrttttt, I hope my gas doesn't arouse you too much.WTF?

Then why did God make it so pleasurable?

Because if it wasnt, nothing would do it.

What people need to understand is that there are instinctual urges that all animals (yes, humans are animals) experience in order to prolong the life of the species. You feel hungry when you havent eaten. Its an urge to eat. If you never felt hunger, you wouldnt eat. You eat not for survival, but to satisfy that urge. Same goes with sex.

I'm against it, to be honest. Not out of bigotry, but respect I guess for marriage.

you're kidding right? How is two of the same sex disrespecting it? All we'd be doing by allowing it would be broadening the definition of it, which I think it's time we did.

Homosexuals are cool.

I say remove government from marriage. It's none of their business. What's so great about marriage anyway? People want their partner to be monogamous but don't trust them to be so without coercion?

homosexuals should not get married

No. They could be a couple, but not married. It's just too weird.

Care to put any reasoning instead of just "No I don't think they should get married?" Because it's better to have a reason instead of just blatently saying no.

Care to put any reasoning instead of just "No I don't think they should get married?" Because it's better to have a reason instead of just blatently saying no.
i can't explain i don't want to type that much

i can't explain i don't want to type that much

it's better to take an amount of time to explain reasoning behind your choice, instead of keeping it simple like that, giving no reason, and giving people a reason to think that you're just saying that to try to follow the majority of Society that thinks Gay Marriage shouldn't be allowed.

it's better to take an amount of time to explain reasoning behind your choice, instead of keeping it simple like that, giving no reason, and giving people a reason to think that you're just saying that to try to follow the majority of Society that thinks Gay Marriage shouldn't be allowed.
I do have a opinion different from society i dont like faggots i dont care who knows it and if we let gays get married that just opens a gate way to all kinds of marriages like incest marriage or poligamy, beastiality stop now so we never have to see this kind of thing happening

If you republicans love america so much and love free speech and personal freedoms then why take the right to get married. You got owned :sniper:!

Let me also say that the only reason people are against it is because they are homophobes or religious ass wholes.:gundge:

I do have a opinion different from society i dont like faggots i dont care who knows it and if we let gays get married that just opens a gate way to all kinds of marriages like incest marriage or poligamy, beastiality stop now so we never have to see this kind of thing happening

what does a pile of sticks have to do with this thread exactly?

If you republicans love america so much and love free speech and personal freedoms then why take the right to get married. You got owned :sniper:!

Let me also say that the only reason people are against it is because they are homophobes or religious ass wholes.:gundge:
for one i am not a republican i hate them two being religiou is the only reason i am not trying to kill faggots three you get locked in jail you will become homophobic:D i have not been in jail never gonna be

die faggots:sniper: :gundge: :mp5:

what does a pile of sticks have to do with this thread exactly?ok smart ass homosexuals

for one i am not a republican i hate them two being religiou is the only reason i am not trying to kill faggots three you get locked in jail you will become homophobic:D

die faggots:sniper: :gundge: :mp5:
your the one who should be locked up in jail:mp5:

ok smart ass homosexuals
being right dosnt make u a smart ass it makes u right:D

your the one who should be locked up in jail:mp5:
No my butt hurts just thinking of jail

being right dosnt make u a smart ass it makes u right:D
can we just drop it you know what i mean

ok smart ass homosexuals

just because I'm not going by the "idiot's definition" of the word doesn't make me a smart ass, seeing as the true definition of the word is in fact "A bundle of sticks or twigs"

What is your problem with homosexuals anyways? Afraid you're going to catch it and become one of them? Grow up. Homosexuals are just as much of a person as the rest of us, and should be treated as such.

Are you as big of a racist as you are sexual discriminator?

No my butt hurts just thinking of jailwhy do u hate homosexurals so much and want to kill all of them?

just because I'm not going by the "idiot's definition" of the word doesn't make me a smart ass, seeing as the true definition of the word is in fact "A bundle of sticks or twigs"

What is your problem with homosexuals anyways? Afraid you're going to catch it and become one of them? Grow up. Homosexuals are just as much of a person as the rest of us, and should be treated as such.

Are you as big of a racist as you are sexual discriminator?exactly. Homosexurals have been alive sence the dawn of time and u want to kill them all for no reason? Whats next kill all the jews oh wait been done. how about arabs, oh wait we are doing that. Hm what hasnt been killled white people! oh yes white poeple never have never been genocided

Grow up. Homosexuals are just as much of a person as the rest of us, and should be treated as such.

Are you as big of a racist as you are sexual discriminator?
I am not a racist they can be the same race as me but it would not matter to me they are still the same "should be treated the same way" now that's funny

I am not a racist they can be the same race as me but it would not matter to me they are still the same
so all gays are the same? :confused:

exactly. Homosexurals have been alive sence the dawn of time and u want to kill them all for no reason? Whats next kill all the jews oh wait been done. how about arabs, oh wait we are doing that. Hm what hasnt been killled white people! oh yes white poeple never have never been genocided
every other race has been treated badly so why not

think of the jews they got there bad years out of the way in the beginning
blacks have done there bad years and so on it is only fair that whites get whats coming to them
and dont think i'm racist im just saying it would only be fair
and i am white

so all gays are the same? :confused:
i mean black gays white gays jewish gays it dont matter to me but i dont hate them i just dislike them a lot

exactly. Homosexurals have been alive sence the dawn of time and u want to kill them all for no reason? Whats next kill all the jews oh wait been done. how about arabs, oh wait we are doing that. Hm what hasnt been killled white people! oh yes white poeple never have never been genocided
Genocided is a most excellent word! Bravo...

No, its unnatural.And so are the Internet and clothes and cars. Should we outlaw those things too?

Genocided is a most excellent word! Bravo...
lol i dont think its a word but ed implys past tence

And so are the Internet and clothes and cars. Should we outlaw those things too?
if it means out lawing gay marriages sure why not

I am not a racist they can be the same race as me but it would not matter to me they are still the same "should be treated the same way" now that's funny

So if we were to compare two people that were homosexual:

Johnny, 17, has a boyfriend that he constantly abuses every day. He's controlling, and very demanding as well.

Timothy, 19, has a boyfriend, and they get along great. They go on dates together as much as they can, and share equal control in the relationship, making it the best they can be.

So even with those differences, you consider them the same? You're a close minded, arrogant idiot if you think every single homosexual person in the world is the same. EVERY single person in the world is different, no matter how much you want to disagree with that.

And yes, they should be treated the same. Why not? They're people just like everyone else. They believe in something different, oh well. That's the beauty of the world. Just because they believe it's alright to go out with someone of the same gender, doesn't mean we should condemn them all and destroy them, that's like saying "Ok, we're going to round up all the Jews, Buddhists, Hinduists, etc... here, and kill them all because they don't have the same exact views and beliefs as we, the christians do."

It's pathetic, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that they should be treated any different than anyone else.

every other race has been treated badly so why not

think of the jews they got there bad years out of the way in the beginning
blacks have done there bad years and so on it is only fair that whites get whats coming to them
and dont think i'm racist im just saying it would only be fair
and i am white
well i hope it never happens to anyone anymore

lol i dont think its a word but ed implys past tence
didn't really know it had a past tence

I'm against it, to be honest. Not out of bigotry, but respect I guess for marriage.So then Britney Spears' 24-hour marriage for publicity was less disrespectful than a same-sex couple wanting to get married because they're truly committed to each other?

i mean black gays white gays jewish gays it dont matter to me but i dont hate them i just dislike them a lot

You don't hate them? Just seconds ago you were saying you wanted to kill them all. I'd say that's a bit more than disliking.

lol i dont think its a word but ed implys past tence
It might not've been a word before, but it is now.

Language isnt stagnant, its always changing, growing, adapting. Shakespeare made up words. Why can't you? Seriously. And the brilliance of the word is that the reader understands what you meant by it, without ever having heard the word before or having to look it up in a dictionary. And no one should be genocided. Its as horrible an idea as it is excellent a word.

I suppose I ought to actually contribute to the conversation.

Let the GLBT's marry. No civil unions. Seperate but equal is inherently unequal.

So if we were to compare two people that were homosexual:

Johnny, 17, has a boyfriend that he constantly abuses every day. He's controlling, and very demanding as well.

Timothy, 19, has a boyfriend, and they get along great. They go on dates together as much as they can, and share equal control in the relationship, making it the best they can be.

So even with those differences, you consider them the same? You're a close minded, arrogant idiot if you think every single homosexual person in the world is the same. EVERY single person in the world is different, no matter how much you want to disagree with that.

And yes, they should be treated the same. Why not? They're people just like everyone else. They believe in something different, oh well. That's the beauty of the world. Just because they believe it's alright to go out with someone of the same gender, doesn't mean we should condemn them all and destroy them, that's like saying "Ok, we're going to round up all the Jews, Buddhists, Hinduists, etc... here, and kill them all because they don't have the same exact views and beliefs as we, the christians do."

It's pathetic, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking that they should be treated any different than anyone else.that johnny thing sounds like a prison story and do you really you can change what goes on in my mind with just a few big words

didn't really know it had a past tence
Does now! :)

that johnny thing sounds like a prison story and do you really you can change what goes on in my mind with just a few big words

well, with those grammar mistakes and missing words, I really doubt it.

You don't hate them? Just seconds ago you were saying you wanted to kill them all. I'd say that's a bit more than disliking.
hating is when you hate everything about them hair shoes toe nails so on(some on them have great hair)

disliking is different disliking is not liking their ways or their personality

Im against gay marriage for religous reasons. The old testement refers to homosexuality as an abomination against God. And throughout the bible in many places it says that marriage is between a man and a women.

I think that people have the right to their opinions dont call me "close minded" or the like because IT is not your "right" nowhere in the Constitution are you given the "right" to marriage but we all have the right to our opinions and free speech and thats why we have this very hot topic debate.There's a little thing in the US and most democratic countries called Separation of Church and State. Just because one's religion is against gay marriage doesn't mean that the country should outlaw it.

well, with those grammar mistakes and missing words, I really doubt it.
you can see now how i almost failed english

that johnny thing sounds like a prison story and do you really you can change what goes on in my mind with just a few big wordsso celebs who get married for a month have more of a right to get married then a gay person who truley loves his partner

hating is when you hate everything about them hair shoes toe nails so on(some on them have great hair)

disliking is different disliking is not liking their ways or their personality

So you don't have to hate a person to want to kill them? Interesting. I always thought that's what brought about the IDEA of killing a person anyways, was because you hate everything about them and want to see them dead.

Oh, wait. It is.

well, with those grammar mistakes and missing words, I really doubt it.
psst, i think he needs you to use much smaller words and shorter sentences. also, you do know that you are right and he is wrong, and it is unlikely you will change his mind. Why do you continue to argue?

homosexuals will burn in hell and if you dont believe in hell and god you will get the same faith if they just get out of that lifestyle and start believeing in god they could go to heaven

psst, i think he needs you to use much smaller words and shorter sentences. also, you do know that you are right and he is wrong, and it is unlikely you will change his mind. Why do you continue to argue?

I dunno, boredom I guess. :D

There's a little thing in the US and most democratic countries called Separation of Church and State. Just because one's religion is against gay marriage doesn't mean that the country should outlaw it.
Not really bush makes laws using the bible.

so celebs who get married for a month have more of a right to get married then a gay person who truley loves his partnerno it's wrong to divorce only marry when you found your true love even if you hate your partner try to make it work

So you don't have to hate a person to want to kill them? Interesting. I always thought that's what brought about the IDEA of killing a person anyways, was because you hate everything about them and want to see them dead.

Oh, wait. It is.i hate no living creature

homosexuals will burn in hell and if you dont believe in hell and god you will get the same faith if they just get out of that lifestyle and start believeing in god they could go to heavenGod's a big hypocrite if he creates humans just so he can send them to burn eternally in Hell on purpose. Why would he create gay people if he didn't like them? Because he's not a bigot and a hypocrite. He's filled with compassion and love, and does not hate homosexuals.

You're more likely to go to Hell, not homosexuals.

I dunno, boredom I guess. :D
boredom can do that to you

homosexuals will burn in hell and if you dont believe in hell and god you will get the same faith if they just get out of that lifestyle and start believeing in god they could go to heaven1. My friend's mom is a Christian minister and she says that hateful biggots are more likely to burn in Hell more than gays.

2. There are these things nowadays called "Punctuation" and "Knowing When to Use Capital Letters." They're free and easy to use and it's generally considered polite to use them, and they also make text look pretty. I suggest you use them.

homosexuals will burn in hell and if you dont believe in hell and god you will get the same faith if they just get out of that lifestyle and start believeing in god they could go to heaven

I believe in god. But guess what? I'm also a homosexual.

But look at it this way, I would rather live my life helping out those around me, volunteering at the elementary school to help the kids succeed, and I like to be a good person without having to resort to cussing (unless provoked), or resorting to violence. I try to be as nice of a person I can be to people, having a friendly face, a warm smile, and a friendly attitude.

But, because I like guys, I'm going to go to hell?

Whoa there boy, go back to reality here. No offense, but just because the bible says "Homosexuals will be condemed to hell" doesn't mean it's true. Think about who wrote it, a HUMAN. And guess what? Humans are capable of exaggerating things, or adding things that aren't necessarily true! Can you believe it?!

So no, I don't think I'm going to hell. Try that again in the next life kiddo.

homosexuals will burn in hell and if you dont believe in hell and god you will get the same faith if they just get out of that lifestyle and start believeing in god they could go to heaven
:rolleyes: I was of the belief God decided who would "burn in hell". Nice to meet you God. Who else, besides athiests and homos get to burn in hell? people who dont capitalize the g in God? oh, since you left it lowercased, to polytheists get to go to heaven? (poly=many theist=God, people who believe in many gods). How about Muslims and Jews? Im so happy I found you God, I have so many questions to ask.

Wait. Your gonna tell me you arent God, right? Then for Pete's sake what the heck are you doing telling people how they will spend their afterlife?

no it's wrong to divorce only marry when you found your true love even if you hate your partner try to make it work
What if your spouse beats you?

God's a big hypocrite if he creates humans just so he can send them to burn eternally in Hell on purpose. Why would he create gay people if he didn't like them? Because he's not a bigot and a hypocrite. He's filled with compassion and love, and does not hate homosexuals.

You're more likely to go to Hell, not homosexuals.
it was adam and eve's fault we have sin and go to hell not god's and jesus saved us from eternal damnation as long as we accept him into his heart and being gay isn't a born with thing you can chose you sexuality because he gave us free will if i wanted to i could be gay but that is just not an opinion with me

i hate no living creature

yet you have the want to kill certain people? No offense, but the desire to want to kill someone doesn't come alone. It doesn't just come into you going "Oh, I don't like the way that person is. I dislike them, so I'm going to kill them!!!" It usually flies at you as "Arg, I hate the way these people are, i wish they would just die!"

When you're wishing that person would die, that's the exact same as saying you hate that person.

as someone this could apply to, i am in full support of gay marriage. marriage is no longer a strictly religious practice, and it has become a symbol of pure love between two people. why not allow two people, be them of the same gender or not, to experience this, which to some is the defining moment in their lives?

What if your spouse beats you?some people get beat and it's not their fault they just try to make the marriage work but one of the spouses have to be a jackass who thinks he/she is superior and they feel like a man/woman when they hit their spouses

I dunno, boredom I guess. :D
Oh boredom... I'd much rather just point and laugh at him. He is so pathetic.

Wait, I just read the post that said you're Christian and try to do good things, etc etc. I suppose you will not aid me in relentless mocking? Well, I suppose i shall just have to argue along with you then.

it was adam and eve's fault we have sin and go to hell not god's and jesus saved us from eternal damnation as long as we accept him into his heart and being gay isn't a born with thing you can chose you sexuality because he gave us free will if i wanted to i could be gay but that is just not an opinion with meHmm. I don't really believe what you said about how you can choose to be gay. Prove it to me. Go gay right now.

Yes, makit gay marriage legal. I support it 100%.