NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi all!

I live in the U.S. so I'm curious if any of you over in this area know anything about this, or will know anything about this. I think that this report is just sick and sad at the same time. I don't just blame the 2 kids that did it, I also blame the parents and society in general.
What message are we sending to kids? These are kids having kids!
This is just sad all around I think. What 11 year old girl decides one night to go out and get drunk? I know she could've been pressured in to it.
It is possible to get pregnant at 11, if a girl has had a period then she can get pregnant. However physically and emotionally it isn't good for the young girl!
She's a baby having a baby.
The best thing is she should've gotten an abortion or give the kid up for adoption.
You know who'll take care of the kid?
One guess: The girl's parents
It's just sick and sad in my opinion.
What are your thoughts?
Just because the plumming's in doesn't mean the house is ready to occupy.


Boy charged over 11-year-old pregnant girl
Saturday, 13 May 2006 12:20
Boy charged over 11-year-old pregnant girl

Police have charged a 15-year-old boy with statutory rape after it was revealed yesterday that an 11-year-old girl became pregnant.

The West Lothian girl, who cannot be named, told all to a newspaper revealing that she became pregnant after losing her virginity to a 15-year-old boy while drunk.

Sex with a person under 12 is illegal in the UK, regardless of consent. The boy, who also cannot be named for legal reasons, will appear on July 10 at Edinburgh sheriff court.

The girl told the newspaper that she plans to keep the baby, due in just a few weeks. The successful birth will make her the youngest mother in the United Kingdom. Dorset's Jenny Teague is currently Britain's youngest mum after giving birth at 12 and nine months in 1997 to a baby girl named Sasha.

The news has brought outcries from many groups, who are condemning the pregnancy as an indication of the disintegration of public morals.

A spokesman for the Catholic Church said: "It is indicative of an increasingly promiscuous culture.

"Scotland does not seem to be as concerned as it should be about underage sexual activity and promiscuous behaviour on the part of older teenagers."

Scotland has a teenage pregnancy rate of 7.5 per 1,000 teenagers aged 13 to 15. The UK has the second highest teenage birth rate in developed countries,
at 32 per 1,000 teenagers in this age group.

Scottish Conservative health spokeswoman, Nanette Milne says the latest incident highlights the failings of the messages that are being sent out to youngsters
in regards to sex and alcohol.

"I hope this incident will draw attention to failings that have allowed such a young girl to go on a night out, get drunk and get pregnant, yet seemingly
be ignorant about the risks and consequences," said Ms Milne.

"Any sustainable change in behaviour and attitudes can only be family and society-driven."

The Scottish Executive has made no comment on the latest case but has spoken in support of the sex education programme in schools, which it says "stresses the importance of relationships with a family context".

Sex with a person under 12 is illegal in the UK, regardless of consent. That's absurd, what if two 11-year-olds have sex?

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.

Ouch, that girl has a lot of very tough years ahead of her. The silverlining(though not much of one) is that she didn't get pregnant around the time of her exams(whatever the exams are in Scotland when one is leaving school).

Hell, at 11 the last thing I wanted was a screaming brat.

I didn't even know what sex was at 11! We learned it in school later on that year (I was in grade 5).

It's unbelievebale and sickening to hear something like that.

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
Because being an stupid, immoral dirty whore is a capital offence, right?

In a developing country it would, but most likely they'll do a Caesarian section.

I didn't even know what sex was at 11! We learned it in school later on that year (I was in grade 5).
I think I knew, but only that sex=>pregnancy. That was about the sum of it.

Oh, how awful. My spleen is set to explode with outrage. :rolleyes:

If she was so irresponsible, she deserves to have to keep the baby, and if it kills her, well... one less person to worry about, 6+ billion to go. I mean seriously, that's why we have contraceptives. Sigh.

Because being an stupid, immoral dirty whore is a capital offence, right?

In a developing country it would, but most likely they'll do a Caesarian section.

Then she has the glorious honor of taking care of a baby! Of course, her parents will most likely take care of it, as they will be proud of being the youngest grandparents on the block. :D

Oh, how awful. My spleen is set to explode with outrage. :rolleyes:

If she was so irresponsible, she deserves to have to keep the baby, and if it kills her, well... one less person to worry about, 6+ billion to go. I mean seriously, that's why we have contraceptives. Sigh.
Who's going to sell condoms to an 11 year old? Most likely nobody.

I hope the boy's going to jail

I hope the boy's going to jail
Why?

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
Yes, this attitude is quite disgusting.

Why?

Because I'm mean :mad:

Because I'm mean
Huh. Sucks to be you then, I guess.

Huh. Sucks to be you then, I guess.

Bah humbug

Who's going to sell condoms to an 11 year old? Most likely nobody.
There's always the option of just not doing it...

The boy was fifteen, he surely had a higher chance of being able to buy condoms, but I don't know of many 15 year olds who would. It's just a tradgic situation.

Yes, this attitude is quite disgusting.

I've seen things worse than this. I've grown callosued and cold to these sorts of things.

And, I forgot to comment on the guy. He is even worse for taking advantage of someone who most likely did not know the consequences of their actions.

There's always the option of just not doing it...
Ya, but where's the fun in that? ;)

The boy who impregnated her was 15yo. At that age he should know that you do not have sex with someone who is 11!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes the girl is stupid for doing it, but the boy is totally wrong, too, and more so.....

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.

Why not ? Did you expect an 11 year old girl to think and act in a responsible way ?

The boy who impregnated her was 15yo. At that age he should know that you do not have sex with someone who is 11!
Yes the girl is stupid for doing it, but the boy is totally wrong, too, and more so.....
We don't know that he knew she was 11. She could have lied about her age.

Why not ? Did you expect an 11 year old girl to think and act in a responsible way ?

No. But now that she has it, thinking about it will not make it go away.

And, the guy is even worse, in my opinion.

It seems that they left out some details out of this story. I read about this yesterday, apparently on some other site. In that version they told that the girl started smoking when she was 9 and drinking when she was 10. She continues smoking today and says that "she could quit anytime, but doesn't feel it hurts the child". So not only does she endanger herself, she does double damage to the baby as well.

It seems that they left out some details out of this story. I read about this yesterday, apparently on some other site. In that version they told that the girl started smoking when she was 9 and drinking when she was 10. She continues smoking today and says that "she could quit anytime, but doesn't feel it hurts the child". So not only does she endanger herself, she does double damage to the baby as well.

I take back my comment about the guy being worse. Especially if this is true.

It seems that they left out some details out of this story. I read about this yesterday, apparently on some other site. In that version they told that the girl started smoking when she was 9 and drinking when she was 10. She continues smoking today and says that "she could quit anytime, but doesn't feel it hurts the child". So not only does she endanger herself, she does double damage to the baby as well.
Ugh. Do you have a source? I hope you don't, cos I'd be a much happier person if that wasn't true.

No. But now that she has it, thinking about it will not make it go away.

True. But again: she is eleven. Is she capable of actually making such a decision ?

Who's going to sell condoms to an 11 year old? Most likely nobody.
Well that does prove a point and I'm most certainly not going to do what she did.......at least not anytime soon ;) and besides, you can die from having a birth that young,no sympathy for the girl:eek: , her fault she got drunk:rolleyes:

True. But again: she is eleven. Is she capable of actually making such a decision ?

Maybe not, but she is certainly capable of having it. If I was her, I would abort it, only for the fact that there could be some major complications.

I blame the parents.

FU<£iING CHAV SCUM

yeah i bet she was a chav in which case she is an idiot and like all of her kind should be castrated to control the population, leaving only the sane

Well that does prove a point and I'm most certainly not going to do what she did.......at least not anytime soon ;)
The fact that 11 years olds probably can't buy condoms proves nothing about you.
and besides, you can die from having a birth that young
C section
,no sympathy for the girl:eek: , her fault she got drunk:rolleyes: [/COLOR]
How do you know?

FU<£iING CHAV SCUM

yeah i bet she was a chav in which case she is an idiot and like all of her kind should be castrated to control the population, leaving only the sane
Only the sane? I guess that puts you high on the list for castration.

You reap what you sow.
God giveth, and so God taketh away.
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Serves the girl right.

FU<£iING CHAV SCUM

yeah i bet she was a chav in which case she is an idiot and like all of her kind should be castrated to control the population, leaving only the sane
How do you castrate a girl?

How do you castrate a girl?

Maybe she is a transvestite. :D

Well. Alchohol will do that.

You're all saying how she might die, etc., but she wants to have the baby (which will ruin her life...), and it's not like that baby will grow up to be "nice and normal" with that kind of a parent... so, why not get rid of the darned thing? Seriously, what's wrong with demanding that that girl go and get rid of what will, almost certainly, be a disfunctional human being, who will likely act only as a drain on the welfare system... anyway, doing that would let her not risk dieing, and let her go to school... and not grow up to be an uneducated low-wage worker...
Just tossing the idea out there, since it needs to be considered. (No, I'm not a fascist or anything! I'm not thinking about "genetic purity" or anything! I'm just thinking about what would be best for that poor girl and for society - if she has a baby, she is all but guarenteed to not finish school and so on, while if she doesn't have that baby, she might grow up to be a productive, educated, member of society.)

Again, just tossing the idea out there...

Ugh. Do you have a source? I hope you don't, cos I'd be a much happier person if that wasn't true.

Here it is (unfortunately): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=385968&in_page_id=1774&in_a_source=&ct=5

Here it is (unfortunately): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=385968&in_page_id=1774&in_a_source=&ct=5

Ugh. Now I really don't feel sorry for her. That's just plain stupidity.

FU<£iING CHAV SCUM

yeah i bet she was a chav in which case she is an idiot and like all of her kind should be castrated to control the population, leaving only the sane
It's Ned. Scottish Chavs are called Neds.:)

Government are asking people in there early-twenties to have kid's because of population decline but eleven is far to young in my opinion.

Government are asking people in there early-twenties to have kid's because of population decline but eleven is far to young in my opinion.

Really? Please give the government a message (say it's from me, of course) and tell them that it is none of their business to tell people when and if to have kids.

You're all saying how she might die, etc., but she wants to have the baby (which will ruin her life...), and it's not like that baby will grow up to be "nice and normal" with that kind of a parent... so, why not get rid of the darned thing? Seriously, what's wrong with demanding that that girl go and get rid of what will, almost certainly, be a disfunctional human being, who will likely act only as a drain on the welfare system... anyway, doing that would let her not risk dieing, and let her go to school... and not grow up to be an uneducated low-wage worker...
Just tossing the idea out there, since it needs to be considered. (No, I'm not a fascist or anything! I'm not thinking about "genetic purity" or anything! I'm just thinking about what would be best for that poor girl and for society - if she has a baby, she is all but guarenteed to not finish school and so on, while if she doesn't have that baby, she might grow up to be a productive, educated, member of society.)

Again, just tossing the idea out there...

I respect your opinion, Danteri, because unlike most advocates of abortion, you look at the long term consequences of the mother, the child, and society. Most people would just say that the baby should be aborted so the girl doesn't have to raise it. You make a more understandable case.

However, I believe that while the child is destined to an unproductive life, it is still a human life. To take it is murder. On the most basic scale, the baby's life is worth no less than ours. And who is to say that the girl would be better off in life with an abortion? I have a friend who volunteers with women who have had abortions, who feel guilty, depressed, and suicidal about what they did. If anything, you the girl can have the baby and put it up for adoption, and then go on to be a semi-productive member of society.

You should see how bad things are in Russia with population decline dropped by millions since 1990.

They just want more people so that they can take more taxes. :p

That mother of the girl is a stupid bitch! She'll be low life trash, just like her own mom apparently is from what I've read now.
I'm not surprised the girl got knocked up with parents like that. Most likely, some tv network will do a documentary on her one day.
Stupid whore for thinking that smoking doesn't affect the baby, when I'm sure doctors have told her otherwise.
If she doesn't listen to doctors, most likely she doesn't listen to anyone in authority or someone that knows better.

Stupid, stupid trashy chick!

Ah stupidity, the only thing in the universe more common than hydrogen.

Ah stupidity, the only thing in the universe more common than hydrogen.

Yep, I agree!

Ah stupidity, the only thing in the universe more common than hydrogen.

At least hydrogen can be useful.

People suck.

At least hydrogen can be useful.
Stupidity is useful too. Soylent green is made of stupid people.

Stupidity is useful too. Soylent green is made of stupid people.

Eh? What exactly is soylent green?

Eh? What exactly is soylent green?
Soylent green is people! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green)

I have no sympathy for the girl.

If she's physically developed to the point where she can bear children, there is likely the need in place to pursue the opposite sex. There is a great chance that she probably lied about her age.

What 15 year old boy would honestly want to get it on with an 11 year old, unless that 11 year old had... certain 'benefits'?!

Oh and I find this part rather... disturbing:
She told the Sun: "I didn't think I'd get pregnant because it was my first time. But I'm really excited and looking forward to being a mum.

"I can't wait to take the baby swimming and out for walks in the pram. I think I'll be able to cope as I've had lots of practice looking after my brothers.

Soylent green is people! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green)


Hahaha! I get it!

"She's a baby having a baby."

IMVHO, 11 year olds don't count as babies. Children, maybe. But not babies.

Oh, and:

"Plumming" = Plumbing. FYI.

PS: GP Forums FTW.

"She's a baby having a baby."

IMVHO, 11 year olds don't count as babies. Children, maybe. But not babies.

Oh, and:

"Plumming" = Plumbing. FYI.

PS: GP Forums FTW.

"Kids having Kids" might fit better

Reading the article and the comments herein.

This girl sucks big time.

At least her mom is trying to be helpful, but being proud of her? I know I wouldn't be proud.

*hopes this girl dies* for the sake of the child. Or that the child does, for its own sake.

Damn, I feel most sorry for the child.

The guy sucks ass too.

So far, the majority of posts here either chastise the girl or the young boy for getting pregnant. What about the irresponsible, absentee parents in this situation? What kind of worthless parents are so detached form their 11 year old daughter that they could allow something like this to happen? Of course we are all responsible for our own actions, but an 11 year old CHILD is just that, a CHILD, and parents are responsible for their children.

I hope the boy's going to jail
What a stupid suggestion. He's only a horny little bastard as it is. Send him to jail and who knows, he'll probably become a aerosol-sniffing vandal.

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
Nice. You get the Dobbsworld 'three thumbs up' for being a complete and utter bastard.

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
If you cant feel sorry for the death of a child that did not have the ability to make an informed decision (she was both drunk AND 11 fucking years old)

Then you are truly heartless

There is a reason why abortion reduces crime and idiot people having kids like she is doing is a large part of that reason.

If you cant feel sorry for the death of a child that did not have the ability to make an informed decision (she was both drunk AND 11 fucking years old)

Then you are truly heartless
Yeah, but not entirely brainless though, a child that is drunk and pregnant at the age of 11 is probably not going to get very far in life and the child probably isn't either.

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.

You're a monster. Subhuman and truly undeserving of existance. If I weren't opposed to violence, I would wish some upon you.

The mom sucks. "PROUD" OF HER DAUGHTER? The mom should be shot first.

Yeah, but not entirely brainless though, a child that is drunk and pregnant at the age of 11 is probably not going to get very far in life and the child probably isn't either.
Possibly ... possibly not ... but that person was not talking in the relm of logic ... he was talking about in the relm of "feeling sory"

Just shoot her before she learns, from personal experience, what is worse than death. If the girl is that stupid, death would indeed be merciful for her kid. Then again, suffering for the rest of your life is better than a quick death, right?

You're a monster. Subhuman and truly undeserving of existance. If I weren't opposed to violence, I would wish some upon you.
Undeserving of existence? What? Because his system of ethics is different than yours? That girl is not going to do anything good for anyone, in fact, she will probably do the opposite. What future is there for an 11 year old mother? There is no good future and really all that she will do is probably contribute to the crime rate either through her own life or that of her children and her children will not get the parent that they deserve. It would be better for her to die now rather than pump out some more bastards who will probably live horrible existences and possibly even cause others to have those existences as well. Like I said, there is a reason why abortion brings down crime and it is really because of the fact that crappy parents and children in crappy conditions bring up the crime rate.

Yeesh...Guess this sort of news scares off a bit o' reason?

Just shoot her before she learns, from personal experience, what is worse than death. If the girl is that stupid, death would indeed be merciful for her kid. Then again, suffering for the rest of your life is better than a quick death, right?
I dont know I have had a few friends that had kids very early on (not quite that early but very early)

They are not "Suffering" right now , in fact three of the early parents I knew now have houses ... are maried and are making as much as I am per year. They seem rather happy

Who's going to sell condoms to an 11 year old? Most likely nobody.
Surely he could have gone to one of those dispensers they have in toilets, they don't check your age, and are cheap.

Possibly ... possibly not ... but that person was not talking in the relm of logic ... he was talking about in the relm of "feeling sory"
Well considering all of the worthier people to feel sorry for it is only rational to not ration out feeling sorry for her death. He never said anything about feeling sorry for her life and he probably does which is why he made the comment, I certainly feel sorry that this happened, but really I would not feel sorry if she dies because I do feel sorry that she lives like she does. Logically it would be better to not feel sorry if she dies because there is the fact that she in all likelyhood should not be a parent and dying would prevent that and therefore be good and feeling sorry for a good thing is illogical, it is like feeling sorry that you ate a good sandwich.

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.

That doesn't happen too much these days, unless the state of medicine over there is worse than I thought.

Abortion is an option. She should take it.

Undeserving of existence? What? Because his system of ethics is different than yours? That girl is not going to do anything good for anyone, in fact, she will probably do the opposite. What future is there for an 11 year old mother? There is no good future and
*snips drivel*
Your defence of that curmudgeonly prat, Legendary Rock Stars, hinges on one single word: probably.

As in, you're probably a judgemental prick with nothing better to do than to pick on 11-year-olds.

People suck.
Wow, we agree. :)

Really? Please give the government a message (say it's from me, of course) and tell them that it is none of their business to tell people when and if to have kids.
Only if this goes alongside complete freedom to abort.

Her parents have power over her. They should sort this mess out. Not that it is her fault entirely, they are both to blame.

Your defence of that curmudgeonly prat, Legendary Rock Stars, hinges on one single word: probably.

As in, you're probably a judgemental prick with nothing better to do than to pick on 11-year-olds.
Well, it is more likely that she will do harm than good so therefore statistically it would be better for her to die than not to. Also, what makes you think I am doing this to pick on 11 year olds? I would say the same about a 28 year old crack head, age may be a contributing factor but the fact that she gets drunk and smokes according to previous posters is enough to consider her to be a danger to her child. You may look at this moralistically or not but the fact remains the same, it would be a curse to have that person for your mother.

Really? Please give the government a message (say it's from me, of course) and tell them that it is none of their business to tell people when and if to have kids.
They're not telling, they're asking.

Only if this goes alongside complete freedom to abort.

Her parents have power over her. They should sort this mess out. Not that it is her fault entirely, they are both to blame.
Freedom to abort is a necessary freedom because of the fact that abortion is linked with crime, if abortion is banned then crime increases. A fetus that is unwanted or that will be born to bad parents is not worth the life of a law abiding citizen.

You may look at this moralistically or not but the fact remains the same, it would be a curse to have that person for your mother.
Well, that's not for me to say. Nor is it for you, either.

Nosey.

Surely he could have gone to one of those dispensers they have in toilets, they don't check your age, and are cheap.
It's a she.

Freedom to abort is a necessary freedom because of the fact that abortion is linked with crime, if abortion is banned then crime increases. A fetus that is unwanted or that will be born to bad parents is not worth the life of a law abiding citizen.
As a libertarian, I support abortion.

Your defence of that curmudgeonly prat, Legendary Rock Stars, hinges on one single word: probably.

As in, you're probably a judgemental prick with nothing better to do than to pick on 11-year-olds.

Heh. Too bad that the post you read wasn't actually mine.

Freedom to abort is a necessary freedom because of the fact that abortion is linked with crime, if abortion is banned then crime increases. A fetus that is unwanted or that will be born to bad parents is not worth the life of a law abiding citizen.
How can you be sure that a child with a bad parent/s won't be a law abiding citizen? Similarly how do you know that having a child wouldn't turn a person's life around and make them realise the error of there ways and change them? Or maybe more likely, the child get's taken from it's parents by Social Services or their equivilant and gets fostered by good parents?

Well, that's not for me to say. Nor is it for you, either.

Nosey.
Blah blah blah, I'll say what I feel is true. It is for anyone to say that feels that it is true and when dealing with a case this extreme it may well be warranted. Honestly, your entire defense is based on a moral thought that I don't necessarily believe in and is not based on logic but rather your distaste in my ideas. It is like a theist angered at an atheist or some other parallel thingy that I can't think of at this moment.:D

Meh, whatever life is life, there are those who live that should die and there are those that die that should live... and it would be really cool if somebody right now had that quote by Gandalf from lord of the rings.:)

Heh. Too bad that the post you read wasn't actually mine.
Nice try.
Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
Now try again.

Nice try.

Now try again.

You quoted the wrong post, then.

Blah blah blah, I'll say what I feel is true. It is for anyone to say that feels that it is true and when dealing with a case this extreme it may well be warranted. Honestly, your entire defense is based on a moral thought that I don't necessarily believe in and is not based on logic but rather your distaste in my ideas. It is like a theist angered at an atheist or some other parallel thingy that I can't think of at this moment.:D
Pretty much my view on many things, especially economics.

Meh, whatever life is life, there are those who live that should die and there are those that die that should live... and it would be really cool if somebody right now had that quote by Gandalf from lord of the rings.:)
Everyone should die.

You quoted the wrong post, then.
Learn to read threads properly - I don't have time for correcting the misapprehensions of a willful fool.

Learn to read threads properly - I don't have time for correcting the misapprehensions of a willful fool.

I don't have time to partake in pointless arguments over something so insignificant.

I don't have time to partake in pointless arguments over something so insignificant.
Can't be bothered to flip back a page or two, then? Fine then, be a moron - I won't be feeling sorry for you once your cheeks flush red.

Can't be bothered to flip back a page or two, then? Fine then, be a moron - I won't be feeling sorry for you once your cheeks flush red.

Nah, I can't be bothered to argue about whether you quoted the wrong post or not.

And, I still don't feel sorry for her. She got pregnant, she now has to live with it.

Nah, I can't be bothered to argue about whether you quoted the wrong post or not.

And somehow I still see you doing it? Funny, no?

Nah, I can't be bothered to argue about whether you quoted the wrong post or not.

And, I still don't feel sorry for her. She got pregnant, she now has to live with it.
:confused: You were the one who decided to argue that point in the first place, and when I point out it was you who was in fact in error, you slough it off?

Welcome to my ignore list, you lazy dick.

/ignore

:confused: You were the one who decided to argue that point in the first place, and when I point out it was you who was in fact in error, you slough it off?

Welcome to my ignore list, you lazy dick.

/ignore

At least I don't have to resort to name-calling.

How can you be sure that a child with a bad parent/s won't be a law abiding citizen? Similarly how do you know that having a child wouldn't turn a person's life around and make them realise the error of there ways and change them? Or maybe more likely, the child get's taken from it's parents by Social Services or their equivilant and gets fostered by good parents?
Well, I don't necessarily know that but I can figure out what we expect to be the results. I mean, there are some that will be law abiding citizens but I don't think that those will outweigh the number that will not be and besides, if a parent does not want to be a parent enough so that they get an abortion then they probably should not be a parent or at least should not be one at that point in time. The likely thing to happen is that the parent will keep the child, raise it in an inferior manner due to negligence, ignore bad boyfriends, not give it proper moral education, not give schooling much thought etc etc... and that child will grow up to be a citizen reflecting the values and ideals of that parent. Whether you look at growing up as a function of nature or nurture(I would really look at nurture more than anything) that child will get the bad end of the stick and really Social Services is not likely to fix the problem anyway. The most likely thing is that we just get an individual that is morally and intellectually inferior due to the poor choice of environment.

Well, I don't necessarily know that but I can figure out what we expect to be the results. I mean, there are some that will be law abiding citizens but I don't think that those will outweigh the number that will not be and besides, if a parent does not want to be a parent enough so that they get an abortion then they probably should not be a parent or at least should not be one at that point in time. The likely thing to happen is that the parent will keep the child, raise it in an inferior manner due to negligence, ignore bad boyfriends, not give it proper moral education, not give schooling much thought etc etc... and that child will grow up to be a citizen reflecting the values and ideals of that parent. Whether you look at growing up as a function of nature or nurture(I would really look at nurture more than anything) that child will get the bad end of the stick and really Social Services is not likely to fix the problem anyway. The most likely thing is that we just get an individual that is morally and intellectually inferior due to the poor choice of environment.
There is also the option of adoption. But I would agree that parents who do not believe they could provide a good life for their child should consider an abortion or adoption.

There is also the option of adoption. But I would agree that parents who do not believe they could provide a good life for their child should consider an abortion or adoption.

What if they do believe it, but in reality, are not?

Blah blah blah, I'll say what I feel is true. It is for anyone to say that feels that it is true and when dealing with a case this extreme it may well be warranted. Honestly, your entire defense is based on a moral thought that I don't necessarily believe in and is not based on logic but rather your distaste in my ideas. It is like a theist angered at an atheist or some other parallel thingy that I can't think of at this moment.:D

Meh, whatever life is life, there are those who live that should die and there are those that die that should live... and it would be really cool if somebody right now had that quote by Gandalf from lord of the rings.:)
'Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. There are many who live that deserve to die, and there are many who die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so quick to deal out death and(in?) judgement'

What if they do believe it, but in reality, are not?

Well, parenting lisences are often suggested, but as of now, not much we can do

Everyone should die.
I don't think that was Gandalf's quote, he was talking about Gollum/Smeagal but it is a rather true statement in some respects. The environment would do a lot better if everyone died, in fact, it would really help fungal and plant growth if everyone died as we would not only stop using herbicides but our corpses would allow for more growth.

What if they do believe it, but in reality, are not?
Hmmm. Perhaps doctors should discuss these thing with pregnant women?

I don't think that was Gandalf's quote, he was talking about Gollum/Smeagal but it is a rather true statement in some respects. The environment would do a lot better if everyone died, in fact, it would really help fungal and plant growth if everyone died as we would not only stop using herbicides but our corpses would allow for more growth.

Indeed. http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050808/pf/050808-4_pf.html

I don't think that was Gandalf's quote, he was talking about Gollum/Smeagal but it is a rather true statement in some respects. The environment would do a lot better if everyone died, in fact, it would really help fungal and plant growth if everyone died as we would not only stop using herbicides but our corpses would allow for more growth.
Of course plant life would suffer from the sudden drop in recycled oxegen levels now that we aren't respiring. Though animal life would most likely catch up in time.

I don't think that was Gandalf's quote, he was talking about Gollum/Smeagal but it is a rather true statement in some respects. The environment would do a lot better if everyone died, in fact, it would really help fungal and plant growth if everyone died as we would not only stop using herbicides but our corpses would allow for more growth.
That was my nihilist side speaking; if we were dead, the environment would mean nothing since we wouldn't be able to perceive it anyway. So its continued existence would be inconsequential, to us. That is, assuming things don't have a raison d'etre.

Hmmm. Perhaps doctors should discuss these thing with pregnant women?
What a noval idea :eek: Helping to inform people about their decisions and the impacts:eek:

There is also the option of adoption. But I would agree that parents who do not believe they could provide a good life for their child should consider an abortion or adoption.
Well, if they would all give their kids up for adoption or something that would be great but the thing is that I tend to doubt that many would give up their child for adoption simply because actually giving birth personalizes it. Abortion by itself is a horrible thing, Roe of Roe vs Wade even came over to the anti-abortion side of things. However, abortion is a sad necessity created by people who cannot handle their own lives.

'Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. There are many who live that deserve to die, and there are many who die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be so quick to deal out death and(in?) judgement'
Ok, that is the quote, cool, I was just thinking of it, mainly because of the part in the middle about deserving life and dying and vice versa. I just had a bit of silliness going through me in that post. I mean, I was being a bit too cold and serious with Dobbsworld and I felt that it was in my interest to just lighten up and be fun.

What a noval idea :eek: Helping to inform people about their decisions and the impacts:eek:
Well having never been a pregnant woman I can't claim to know if doctors do discuss the possibilites of adoption or abortion or what kind of life you could give your child.

Of course plant life would suffer from the sudden drop in recycled oxegen levels now that we aren't respiring. Though animal life would most likely catch up in time.
No, they have a lot of CO2 and would not suffer at all. I mean, we have a lot of CO2, they would just get busy and have fun being... well... mindless plants.

No, they have a lot of CO2 and would not suffer at all. I mean, we have a lot of CO2, they would just get busy and have fun being... well... mindless plants.

...A lot comes from the continued exhalation of animals...

That was my nihilist side speaking; if we were dead, the environment would mean nothing since we wouldn't be able to perceive it anyway. So its continued existence would be inconsequential, to us. That is, assuming things don't have a raison d'etre.
Well, I was using my nihilistic/cynical side too, but mine has a sense of humor. I mean, if I were serious then yes I would say the same things as you are but rather I made it seem beneficial because it is based off of logic and yet runs counter to what most people think. My cynical side can often have a sense of humor.

...A lot comes from the continued exhalation of animals...
And all other animal life on the planet most likely outnumbers human life.

Nobody seems to have taken the 15-year olds perspective... He was bangin an 11-year old for fuck's sake, he probably assumed she couldn't get the preggers yet!(hence why no condom was used).

This is pretty sad... the baby is going to be a wreck, with an ignorant-ass mom like that and a dumb-ass grandma like that. She started smoking at 9? Horrid. The UK's limit of 16 for sex always seemed reasonable to me (a 15 year old). I think we can all safely assume that this is the fault of the whole "smoking & drinking is cool" mindset. Smoking kills you. killing you =/= cool. Drinking gives you balls. Drinking in moderation ~ cool.

This case is the perfect argument to why primary and secondary schools should always be separated, and why cigs/fags should not be sold ever to people incapable of true reasoning (namely, 16 upwards).

Take the example of religion. When a catholic couple has a baby, they (usually) baptise it right away. When he/she's about 9-11 it takes it's first communion. But when they are 16-18 (when they start really thinking) they can choose wether or not to get confirmed. 16 is the younguest it should be when it comes to smoking/drinking/sex/drugs.

...A lot comes from the continued exhalation of animals...
True, but still, our CO2 levels are above average... it is just a stupid comment anyway. I am no atmospherologist or ecosystemonomist or any other profession whose name I have chosen to slaughter. Besides, don't funguses exhale CO2 anyway? I said fungi, those little things might pick up our slack, I mean, some decomposer would have to emerge to consume our freshly dead corpses, which means high fly population growth and all sorts of things.

Well, I was using my nihilistic/cynical side too, but mine has a sense of humor. I mean, if I were serious then yes I would say the same things as you are but rather I made it seem beneficial because it is based off of logic and yet runs counter to what most people think. My cynical side can often have a sense of humor.
I suppose my sense of humour is non-functional tonight. Must be the thought of upcoming exams. Bleh.

Hrm. I think the best way forward is to let the girl give birth then forcibly remove the newborn from the care of her family.

As callous as this might sound, hear me out.

Here we have an 11 year old girl who has been smoking from 9, drinking from 10 and having unprotected sex with older men before she's even in her teens. Neither she nor her parents are evidently capable of raising a child. In fact, the girl is not actually old enough to have legal responsibility over a human being.

It is evident in this scenario that it is not in the child's interests nor in the mother's interests for the baby to be raised in the girl's own care. Financially and socially, the mother is underequipped. To allow the child to be raised in the typical family environment would cripple the wider family as a whole. However, this is no reason to deny the child the right to life of some sort. Besides, with only a few weeks remaining (presumably into the third trimester), it is past the point at which the child can be reasonably aborted without severe ethical questioning.

There is another argument in favour of this proposal; the mother herself wants to go ahead with the parenthood. In removal of the child, the girl will experience at least some degree of anguish which should, one hopes, provide a warning to her about the pains of parenting that she seems so oblivious to.

The only remaining question is what to do with the child. I would suggest that the child be treated as a relative-less orphan, whereby the rights of parenting go entirely to a family elsewhere in the country who is willing to adopt them after an appropriate fostering period.

Well worded indeed.

Nobody seems to have taken the 15-year olds perspective... He was bangin an 11-year old for fuck's sake, he probably assumed she couldn't get the preggers yet!(hence why no condom was used).
Yes, the poor little baby. :rolleyes:

Then again, 15 years in a boy = 11 years in a girl. So I guess they had the same level of maturity. Bravo.

Nobody seems to have taken the 15-year olds perspective... He was bangin an 11-year old for fuck's sake, he probably assumed she couldn't get the preggers yet!(hence why no condom was used).
You also assume he knew she was 11, and you further assume that no condom was used.

This is pretty sad... the baby is going to be a wreck, with an ignorant-ass mom like that and a dumb-ass grandma like that.
Indeed. I certainly don't envy that child.
She started smoking at 9? Horrid.
And continues to smoke. Foolish child.
The UK's limit of 16 for sex always seemed reasonable to me (a 15 year old). I think we can all safely assume that this is the fault of the whole "smoking & drinking is cool" mindset. Smoking kills you. killing you =/= cool. Drinking gives you balls. Drinking in moderation ~ cool.
Drinking can kill you too. And some people do just enjoy smoking. I know of one only, but it seems reasonable to assume that if there's one there could be more.

This case is the perfect argument to why primary and secondary schools should always be separated,
Why is that?
and why cigs/fags should not be sold ever to people incapable of true reasoning (namely, 16 upwards).
Well younger children do get older ones to buy the fags. Much like drink.

Take the example of religion. When a catholic couple has a baby, they (usually) baptise it right away. When he/she's about 9-11 it takes it's first communion. But when they are 16-18 (when they start really thinking) they can choose wether or not to get confirmed. 16 is the younguest it should be when it comes to smoking/drinking/sex/drugs.
I would say 16 is a bit too young, since not everyone matures at the same rate. At 18 it's more likely that they can properly appreciate the consequences of their actions.

Hrm. I think the best way forward is to let the girl give birth then forcibly remove the newborn from the care of her family.

As callous as this might sound, hear me out.

Here we have an 11 year old girl who has been smoking from 9, drinking from 10 and having unprotected sex with older men before she's even in her teens. Neither she nor her parents are evidently capable of raising a child. In fact, the girl is not actually old enough to have legal responsibility over a human being.

It is evident in this scenario that it is not in the child's interests nor in the mother's interests for the baby to be raised in the girl's own care. Financially and socially, the mother is underequipped. To allow the child to be raised in the typical family environment would cripple the wider family as a whole. However, this is no reason to deny the child the right to life of some sort. Besides, with only a few weeks remaining (presumably into the third trimester), it is past the point at which the child can be reasonably aborted without severe ethical questioning.

There is another argument in favour of this proposal; the mother herself wants to go ahead with the parenthood. In removal of the child, the girl will experience at least some degree of anguish which should, one hopes, provide a warning to her about the pains of parenting that she seems so oblivious to.

The only remaining question is what to do with the child. I would suggest that the child be treated as a relative-less orphan, whereby the rights of parenting go entirely to a family elsewhere in the country who is willing to adopt them after an appropriate fostering period.


While I agree that it is obvious that the girl and her parents are not sutable parents for a human being

Personaly I would add abortion to the list of options avaliable to them (but not forced upon them) to the list

Whatever happens there is no ability here (unless lets say an uncule wants to take responsibility or something) to raise a child, this child should not be put into danger that way.

I would say 16 is a bit too young, since not everyone matures at the same rate. At 18 it's more likely that they can properly appreciate the consequences of their actions.
As our maximum age increases, so does the age at which we mature. I find it peculiar that younger people tend to get more rights, when in fact the age at which you are mature is going up.

Hrm. I think the best way forward is to let the girl give birth then forcibly remove the newborn from the care of her family.

As callous as this might sound, hear me out.

Here we have an 11 year old girl who has been smoking from 9, drinking from 10 and having unprotected sex with older men before she's even in her teens. Neither she nor her parents are evidently capable of raising a child. In fact, the girl is not actually old enough to have legal responsibility over a human being.

It is evident in this scenario that it is not in the child's interests nor in the mother's interests for the baby to be raised in the girl's own care. Financially and socially, the mother is underequipped. To allow the child to be raised in the typical family environment would cripple the wider family as a whole. However, this is no reason to deny the child the right to life of some sort. Besides, with only a few weeks remaining (presumably into the third trimester), it is past the point at which the child can be reasonably aborted without severe ethical questioning.

There is another argument in favour of this proposal; the mother herself wants to go ahead with the parenthood. In removal of the child, the girl will experience at least some degree of anguish which should, one hopes, provide a warning to her about the pains of parenting that she seems so oblivious to.

The only remaining question is what to do with the child. I would suggest that the child be treated as a relative-less orphan, whereby the rights of parenting go entirely to a family elsewhere in the country who is willing to adopt them after an appropriate fostering period.
This arguement is strengthened by the fact that the mother and her mother(presumably) see nothing wrong with her continuing to smoke through her pregnancy, almost certainly against the advice of doctors. She is already harming her baby before it has even been born.

Very good post.

As our maximum age increases, so does the age at which we mature. I find it peculiar that younger people tend to get more rights, when in fact the age at which you are mature is going up.
More rights? How so?

More rights? How so?
For instance, the age at which you may legally have sex has gone down, the age at which you may legally drink keeps on going down, the age at which you may vote has even gone down in some cases. This may be meritted in certain situations, though in others (such as the voting age) it's an oddity, especially if it is based on the assumption that the age at which one matures is going up.

For instance, the age at which you may legally have sex has gone down, the age at which you may legally drink keeps on going down, the age at which you may vote has even gone down in some cases. This may be meritted in certain situations, though in others (such as the voting age) it's an oddity, especially if it is based on the assumption that the age at which one matures is going up.
What time scales are you operating on? The last decade or something?

I mean my parents remember times when around here the drinking age was 18, it’s now up to 21

And if you look in the long run (the scales you are talking about with lifespan increases) marriage was encouraged for those under age 18.

I mean overall I fail to see freedoms moving to lower age brackets on any long term scale

This is as optomistic as I can be: At least it bodes well that this is such big news. We've come a very long way from, say...one hundred years-one hundred and fifty years ago. This honestly wouldn't have been as big a deal, so despite the claims in the original story of this as an indication of moral decay, isn't it an indication of moral growth that people are so shocked and appalled?

What time scales are you operating on? The last decade or something?

I mean my parents remember times when around here the drinking age was 18, it’s now up to 21
Why do you Americans assume we all live in your country?

Here: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html
I am not sure how up-to-date it is, but it should give an indication.

And if you look in the long run (the scales you are talking about with lifespan increases) marriage was encouraged for those under age 18.

I mean overall I fail to see freedoms moving to lower age brackets on any long term scale
I am primarily concerned with the voting age.

This is as optomistic as I can be: At least it bodes well that this is such big news. We've come a very long way from, say...one hundred years-one hundred and fifty years ago. This honestly wouldn't have been as big a deal, so despite the claims in the original story of this as an indication of moral decay, isn't it an indication of moral growth that people are so shocked and appalled?

A bit too shocked and apalled if you ask me...first calling for her death, then the death of the guy, then the death of her parents, then the death of the kid, then the death of the people calling for the deaths of them.

There is a reason why abortion reduces crime and idiot people having kids like she is doing is a large part of that reason.
I can't believe this comment got totally passed by! Abortion does not significantly reduce crime! I can tell you that the crime rate has gone down in the United States over the past thirty years, but definitely not because abortion has been legalized. Way to oversimplify the issue at hand. Did you consider that the overall economic development in nations experiencing a decline in criminal behavior might have a large impact? Might prosperity have something to do with this decline? Or how about laws allowing private citizens the right to defend themselves with force against common criminals? Concealed carry perhaps? Or are you one of those blind ones who cannot see that, in the United States, areas with concealed carry laws experience a drastic decline in overall violent crime rates almost immediately following the passage of such laws? What effect might tougher penalties have on criminal behavior? Abortion reduces crime! Poor women aren't even the ones who go in large numbers to kill their unborn children, and these are the families from which criminals more statistically come!

OMG let's all chew out the girl, call her an idiot, call her a whore! That'll fix everything! Oh, and what about the dude? Oh it's so obvious that he took advantage of the girl! Yes, that is the only option there is in the entire universe. Oh no wait, I got it! Let's all wish death upon all three of them, since they're all just scum unworthy of feeling sorry for! Yeah, that sounds like a swell idea.

OMG let's all chew out the girl, call her an idiot, call her a whore! That'll fix everything! Oh, and what about the dude? Oh it's so obvious that he took advantage of the girl! Yes, that is the only option there is in the entire universe. Oh no wait, I got it! Let's all wish death upon all three of them, since they're all just scum unworthy of feeling sorry for! Yeah, that sounds like a swell idea.
Death is release.

Death is release.
What a pleasant start to a new page.:)

While I agree that it is obvious that the girl and her parents are not sutable parents for a human being

Personaly I would add abortion to the list of options avaliable to them (but not forced upon them) to the list

Whatever happens there is no ability here (unless lets say an uncule wants to take responsibility or something) to raise a child, this child should not be put into danger that way.
It really is too late, in my opinion and, I gather from general reading, that of the medical profession, to ethically allow abortion to take place if there are single-figure weeks remaining in the full pregnancy term. It is possible at this stage for the child to survive if removed from the uterus, thus the ramifications of causing its death become not an abortion but an involuntary euthanasia issue.

In the general case, were the decision to be made during the first and even second trimester (I think), then the option of abortion is available, yes; especially in rape cases - though, of course, the degree to which either girl or boy were either culpable or capable of consent for their actions is severely bending common legal definition. In this particular scenario, however, I feel that it has gotten to the stage where this child will be born, and the question is merely to decide what to do with it/him/her.

What a pleasant start to a new page.:)
What else would you expect from a ray of sunshine such as myself?

It really is too late, in my opinion and, I gather from general reading, that of the medical profession, to ethically allow abortion to take place if there are single-figure weeks remaining in the full pregnancy term. It is possible at this stage for the child to survive if removed from the uterus, thus the ramifications of causing its death become not an abortion but an involuntary euthanasia issue.

In the general case, were the decision to be made during the first and even second trimester (I think), then the option of abortion is available, yes; especially in rape cases - though, of course, the degree to which either girl or boy were either culpable or capable of consent for their actions is severely bending common legal definition. In this particular scenario, however, I feel that it has gotten to the stage where this child will be born, and the question is merely to decide what to do with it/him/her.
Sorry I was being a bit more general at parts with the abortion … yes with as late term as it is I agree with you there in this case.

What else would you expect from a ray of sunshine such as myself?
Sunburn.

Sunburn.
You could do with a tan anyway, living in Ireland and all.

You could do with a tan anyway, living in Ireland and all.

Haha, you should look at my skin. :D

Why do you Americans assume we all live in your country?

Here: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html
I am not sure how up-to-date it is, but it should give an indication.


I am primarily concerned with the voting age.
I did not really assume anything I was just pointing out local examples.

And the link you posted shows drinking ages of individual countries but does not really show that the freedom of drinking is migrating younger. Im not quite sure where you were going with that link.

I did not really assume anything I was just pointing out local examples.

And the link you posted shows drinking ages of individual countries but does not really show that the freedom of drinking is migrating younger. Im not quite sure where you were going with that link.
Oh, I was just showing how low it is in some countries.

Haha, you should look at my skin. :D
Mine is fair, and that is how it will stay. I hate tans.

Oh, I was just showing how low it is in some countries.
Yeah some countries have it really low or no limit. But that’s not showing change. Hell for all I know maybe the legal drinking age for most countries is migrating UP.

Personally I would be willing to bet over the long term it sort of fluctuates in most countries

Yeah some countries have it really low or no limit. But that’s not showing change. Hell for all I know maybe the legal drinking age for most countries is migrating UP.

Personally I would be willing to bet over the long term it sort of fluctuates in most countries
I know that in some countries it has actually gone down, but you are perhaps right. Parties change frequently, and I suppose so do drinking laws.

I know that in some countries it has actually gone down, but you are perhaps right. Parties change frequently, and I suppose so do drinking laws.
Yeah I’m sure there are a bunch of predictors … everything from religious prevalence to current political climate.

It would be interesting to get my hand on some hard data and try and use my stats skills on it

Atlas raw data is hard to get sometimes.

Yeah I’m sure there are a bunch of predictors … everything from religious prevalence to current political climate.

It would be interesting to get my hand on some hard data and try and use my stats skills on it

Atlas raw data is hard to get sometimes.
Indeed, that is what can sometimes frustrate me about statistics. That, and the fact that to interpret it well you need a thorough knowledge of the circumstances surrounding certain phenomena.

I wonder what the judge is going to say on that July 10th court date?
I also blame the nonexistant parents of these kids in this sad case.

This is just awful. I would say that anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with an 11-year old having sex has got some serious issues. Of course with a girl this young and a 15-year old boy we can't blame them totally, they are just children. Obviously the parents are partly to blame, as they obviously were not around to try to prevent this. Society at large as well perhaps? Perhaps I am seriously naive but if there are lots of 11-year olds getting drunk and having sex then I really fear for our future.

This is just awful. I would say that anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with an 11-year old having sex has got some serious issues. Of course with a girl this young and a 15-year old boy we can't blame them totally, they are just children. Obviously the parents are partly to blame, as they obviously were not around to try to prevent this. Society at large as well perhaps? Perhaps I am seriously naive but if there are lots of 11-year olds getting drunk and having sex then I really fear for our future.
Indeed.

This is just awful. I would say that anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with an 11-year old having sex has got some serious issues. Of course with a girl this young and a 15-year old boy we can't blame them totally, they are just children. Obviously the parents are partly to blame, as they obviously were not around to try to prevent this. Society at large as well perhaps? Perhaps I am seriously naive but if there are lots of 11-year olds getting drunk and having sex then I really fear for our future.

There are a lot of kids that age having kids, and that is not an overstatement. It seems that people are having more sex at a younger age.

This is just awful. I would say that anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with an 11-year old having sex has got some serious issues. Of course with a girl this young and a 15-year old boy we can't blame them totally, they are just children. Obviously the parents are partly to blame, as they obviously were not around to try to prevent this. Society at large as well perhaps? Perhaps I am seriously naive but if there are lots of 11-year olds getting drunk and having sex then I really fear for our future.
One can hope that things will change.

Death is release.
It's not the only release, and it's not the best one.

But that aside, I find it despicable that people can be as heartless as I've read in this thread. It's especially despicable that they find the need to be horridly abrasive about it.

Your posts aren't abrasive, and I can tell that you mean well, so you don't count even though I disagree with you. I just wish more people in this thread had tact like you do.

This is just awful. I would say that anyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with an 11-year old having sex has got some serious issues. Of course with a girl this young and a 15-year old boy we can't blame them totally, they are just children. Obviously the parents are partly to blame, as they obviously were not around to try to prevent this. Society at large as well perhaps? Perhaps I am seriously naive but if there are lots of 11-year olds getting drunk and having sex then I really fear for our future.
It seems as though inevitably the future will see a return to a Victorian-esque class heirarchy. I just don't see democracy working in a world where there is a distinction between the educated and the breeders.

It seems as though inevitably the future will see a return to a Victorian-esque class heirarchy. I just don't see democracy working in a world where there is a distinction between the educated and the breeders.
Some people simply don't want to be educated, it would seem.

It's not the only release, and it's not the best one.

But that aside, I find it despicable that people can be as heartless as I've read in this thread. It's especially despicable that they find the need to be horridly abrasive about it.
Welcome to NS.

Your posts aren't abrasive, and I can tell that you mean well, so you don't count even though I disagree with you. I just wish more people in this thread had tact like you do.
With what do you disagree exactly?

Some people simply don't want to be educated, it would seem.

I suppose, when welfare and blaming other people for their own misfortune is so much easier.

I suppose, when welfare and blaming other people for their misfortune is so much easier.
Why take the path laden with thorns when you can have it so much better?

Ah stupidity, the only thing in the universe more common than hydrogen.
There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and stupidity. And I'm not sure about the former
My god, not only is this 11 year old going to have this child, she's a smoker, and drinker (for 2 years now) and she's not going to stop. She thinks that it won't harm her pregnancy... I feel sorry for the baby (The unborn one, not the 11 year old one), he/she is going to have so many problems as a result of this that they will have virtually no chance of functioning in society.

*snip*
From those lovely quotes one could infer that Ifreann is indeed Einstein.

I suppose, when welfare and blaming other people for their misfortune is so much easier.

I totally agree with you!!
I'd say that here in the U.S. you most likely have 98 or so percent of people don't deserve wellfare. I used to be friends with someone that's on wellfare, he was just to damn lazy but most of all stupid to keep a job for no more than a couple months.
He's been the cause of bringing 2 more useless lives in to this already fucked up world..a 4 year old brat and a 1 year old daughter whom I feel bad for.
Stupid people shouldn't raise kids.

Hi all!
Sex with a person under 12 is illegal in the UK, regardless of consent.

"Under 12"? That's $%#^*^& CRAZY! Under 18 should be more like it. LIBERAL NUTS!

*snip*
A tad too harsh, even for my tastes.

"Under 12"? That's $%#^*^& CRAZY! Under 18 should be more like it. LIBERAL NUTS!
I don't think adults are allowed to have sex with a 12 year old though.

Either way, 15 would seem more logical an age for kids to have sex with each other in my view, as they are somewhat matured, but that is more the parent's responsibility to watch out for, and not the government's.

I don't think adults are allowed to have sex with a 12 year old though.

Haha. Nope.

This is nothing new, IMO. It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen. People have to accept this.

Until we learn acceptance, humanity will never evolve as a civilization.

Unfortunately, acceptance is not gonna happen anytime soon. :(

*Cheers on the Gods of Promiscuity*

This is nothing new, IMO. It has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen. People have to accept this.

Until we learn acceptance, humanity will never evolve as a civilization.

Unfortunately, acceptance is not gonna happen anytime soon. :(

*Cheers on the Gods of Promiscuity*

Accepting something like this is the same as giving in which is something that can't be done.

Either way, 15 would seem more logical an age for kids to have sex with each other in my view, as they are somewhat matured, but that is more the parent's responsibility to watch out for, and not the government's.
Not only do I disagree that a 15 year old is mature enough to handle a sexual relationship, but I also disagree of its usage as a legal limit. As it stands, the legal definition of a minor is one who is under the age of 16 in Britain. Kids should not be permitted to engage in procreative activity before they are legally capable of becoming citizens in their own right.

Not only do I disagree that a 15 year old is mature enough to handle a sexual relationship, but I also disagree of its usage as a legal limit. As it stands, the legal definition of a minor is one who is under the age of 16 in Britain. Kids should not be permitted to engage in procreative activity before they are legally capable of becoming citizens in their own right.
Who cares? They'll have sex anyway.

with all the additives they put in food and drinks now a days i wouldnt be too surprised to see a 5 year old get pregnant

Undeserving of existence? What? Because his system of ethics is different than yours? That girl is not going to do anything good for anyone, in fact, she will probably do the opposite. What future is there for an 11 year old mother? There is no good future and really all that she will do is probably contribute to the crime rate either through her own life or that of her children and her children will not get the parent that they deserve. It would be better for her to die now rather than pump out some more bastards who will probably live horrible existences and possibly even cause others to have those existences as well. Like I said, there is a reason why abortion brings down crime and it is really because of the fact that crappy parents and children in crappy conditions bring up the crime rate.

Suggesting a little girl should die because she got pregnant is pretty shitty.

Perhaps if your moral code allows for killing children you and him can have a nice civil debate, but I'm opposed to murdering children, even if it prevents them from being little whores and spewing out kids. For all you know she might not have another one ever, or wait twenty years.

with all the additives they put in food and drinks now a days i wouldnt be too surprised to see a 5 year old get pregnant

...How would food additives make someone pregnant?:confused:

I can't believe this comment got totally passed by! Abortion does not significantly reduce crime! I can tell you that the crime rate has gone down in the United States over the past thirty years, but definitely not because abortion has been legalized. Way to oversimplify the issue at hand. Did you consider that the overall economic development in nations experiencing a decline in criminal behavior might have a large impact? Might prosperity have something to do with this decline? Or how about laws allowing private citizens the right to defend themselves with force against common criminals? Concealed carry perhaps? Or are you one of those blind ones who cannot see that, in the United States, areas with concealed carry laws experience a drastic decline in overall violent crime rates almost immediately following the passage of such laws? What effect might tougher penalties have on criminal behavior? Abortion reduces crime! Poor women aren't even the ones who go in large numbers to kill their unborn children, and these are the families from which criminals more statistically come!
The economics of a nation would not affect the murder rate very significantly and yet that dropped as well in the 90s. The concealed carry laws only took effect in 37 states as of 2004, the effect was noticed across the nation just like Roe vs Wade was. The idea that abortion is linked to crime comes from economists Steven Levitt and John Donuhue... well... it doesn't come from them but they are 2 major academics who have supported that idea with both correlational evidence from our country and another nation. Anyway, whatever, don't really care one way or another, I am not getting an abortion any time soon.

Suggesting a little girl should die because she got pregnant is pretty shitty.

Perhaps if your moral code allows for killing children you and him can have a nice civil debate, but I'm opposed to murdering children, even if it prevents them from being little whores and spewing out kids. For all you know she might not have another one ever, or wait twenty years.
For all I know the sky could start raining men. The thing is that it is not likely to happen. I never said anything about killing children but truly, the most important thing for any moral action is its consequences. We can make claims up and down about what is important and why insuring camels insults the holy heavens but what it comes down to is what works. If I help my fellow man more by causing harm to one individual then so be it, it is better for more people to do well than for my "moral well-being", I can't eat moral well-being but I can eat tasty girl flesh after it is cooked at 450 degrees fahrenheit for 30 minutes MUA hA HA HA!! No but seriously, I am a consequentialist and I believe that the important thing is the consequences. I would not kill that girl simply because it sets a bad precedent but seriously she is not a good thing for society and you can spew whatever bs you want but a girl who smokes, drinks, and gets pregnant at that age has a snowballs chance in hell of doing well and your moralism to ignore that fact does not mean that it is not true.

...How would food additives make someone pregnant?:confused:
Don't you know??? Babies come from the baby virus!! It is usually an STD but some poorly prepared food can give it to you as well. Thank goodness it only affects women.:D

a 5 year old get pregnant
That actually happened once, don't remember when though.

Something with a gland in the brain causing faster than normal growth, i think.

I just feel bad for the baby..poor thing didn't asked to be born to her.
I also blame the parents.

I feel extremely sorry for the girl, the 15 year old boy, and both of their parents. For one the girl will no longer have a "life" to herself, and her parents will most likely be lumbered with the responsibility. Also the boy and his parents will probably be forced to pay support (not that its a bad thing, after all the babys there responsibility as well). Also, since when have 11 year old (grade 5's, or years 6 in England) think of going drinking, I dont know what to blame really. Also isnt a bit early to be even able to become pregnant. Its probaly all the steroids in the meat causing puberty to comr quickly. BTW you religious nuts dont "wish" for the young girl to die, yes it was irresponsible and downright stupid, but no body deserves to die for a mistake like that, just imagine yourself in that position and just how aweful it would be.

(I would of found a way to blame capitalism but I couldnt think of anything.... BUT I WILL!)

Haha..this thread has more pages than the girl's age..just find that funny for some reason.
And, ironic

...How would food additives make someone pregnant?:confused:

it isnt the additive that would get someone pregnant

but...

some of the additives they put in foods in an effort to mass produce food and to also make them more apealing has been and is still being questioned as a reason some people seem to be developing physiclly faster then others or previous generations

Who cares? They'll have sex anyway.
That doesn't mean that they should be legally permitted to.

I completely disagree with almost everything the girl's done thus far. She was smoking at nine, drinking at ten, and pregnant at eleven. That is a terrible lineup. But I was reading the article itself there, and one thing just jumped out at me. It was something she said herself:

"I knew straight away that I couldn't have an abortion because that's something I don't believe in."

I mean, despite what she's done, despite her appalling habits, she's still a strong enough person to follow her own beliefs in the face of an overwhelming majority of people who demanded she get rid of the child. That, if nothing else, is going to give me hope for the girl and the poor child. I'm not saying that the situation is all well and good because of that - because it certainly isn't - but at least there's the possibility for things to be set right. Get someone to watch out for the young mother-to-be, and get her off of those addictions. Make sure she doesn't fall for any more. And, if the parents are involved enough - and the girl dedicated enough - she may yet finish her high school education, at least.

All the best, unnamed girl, and shame on you.

I completely disagree with almost everything the girl's done thus far. She was smoking at nine, drinking at ten, and pregnant at eleven. That is a terrible lineup. But I was reading the article itself there, and one thing just jumped out at me. It was something she said herself:

"I knew straight away that I couldn't have an abortion because that's something I don't believe in."
I would say that's more evidence of her own naivety, hypocrisy (of parents, perhaps?) and stupidity than 'strong moral character'.

Bah. This is why every country should have had a Trond Viggo (A nationally famous guy in Norway who among other things made a book for young children about sex)
How can she have foreseen anything if she hasnt been told how things work? Information is the key, and I think children should get that kinda information as soon as possible, it could even protect them from unwittingly be lured out with a pedophile and such.

I cant lay blame on an eleven year old child, there is obviously something wrong with how her parents have brought her up when she manage to go out and get drunk at the age of 10.

Sex with a person under 12 is illegal in the UK, regardless of consent. The boy, who also cannot be named for legal reasons, will appear on July 10 at Edinburgh sheriff court.

The girl told the newspaper that she plans to keep the baby, due in just a few weeks. The successful birth will make her the youngest mother in the United Kingdom. Dorset's Jenny Teague is currently Britain's youngest mum after giving birth at 12 and nine months in 1997 to a baby girl named Sasha.

The news has brought outcries from many groups, who are condemning the pregnancy as an indication of the disintegration of public morals.

A spokesman for the Catholic Church said: "It is indicative of an increasingly promiscuous culture.



Not so much a 'promiscuous culture' in this case as opposed to one full of really bad parents. Why should it be solely the responsibility of the church to teach people about morality? What's more, there is a large Christian population here in Scotland yet we have the worst rates of teenage pregnancy. Says something about the ability of the church to bring 'em up on the straight and narrow...

The pregnancy could also be an indication of rubbish sex education; for example, I'm a 16-year-old in Glasgow (west of the area in question) and I've only JUST been given a full, properly informative lesson on contraception - I'd taken the liberty of teaching myself about it in previous years, despite deciding to remain a virgin for a good while yet, because the sex education in schools was at best patchy and at worst outdated and patronising. It's obvious that the number of teenagers having sex has gone up and is showing no sign of decreasing, and yet there is still this insistence that they be kept in the dark for as long as possible. What's more, the drinking culture here is atrocious, with children as young as ten getting drunk and going out causing trouble. In the majority of cases, this is down to the parents not disciplining them properly or simply not caring what their kid does every night provided they don't wake them up. What makes it worse is the lack of activities available to younger people in many more deprived areas.
For the record, the minimum age of consent here is actually 16, not 12.

This article reminds me of the story of a 5-year-old girl in South America who gave birth. It's on Snopes somewhere.

this topic seems to essentially have come down too a few almost seperate discussions:

1/methods of sexual education

2/parenting discussions

3/age of consent.

4/abortion

now its all kinda valid because they all link in to each other dont they? a little about myself, im 25, my girlfriend of 4 years is 23. in my life ive had several freinds fall pregnant. one of them was 13 when she fell pregnant, more recently, two 21 year olds and a 20 year old.

in my opinion none of them were in the right situation to be raising children, none of them were in a position to provide for the child without trouble.

however, they have all gone "baby-crazy" trying to do the best they can. the 13 year old went on to have the child, and eventually went back to school at age 17 and has recently completed a university degree and has made some thing of herself. one of the 21 year olds is in a stable long-term relationship and is making good, the other 2, there on welfare.

before i met the girl that fell pregnant at 13 i had an opinion much like the rest of you, generally speaking a quite brutal perspective on it, i believed that the state should remove children from those unable to care, and a minor by definition cannot care for the child. however, the birth of her child turned the girls life around, and she has dedicated herself to self-improvement so she can give her child everything that she didnt have.

not every teenage mother is like her, many of them become content to live of the state for the rest of their lives, locking their children into a poverty trap as difficult to break from as in any 3rd world nation. however some of them make good, and thats why sweeping judgements are unfair. i loath people that live of the state, i object to my taxes being spent to look after a person, be it the chronically unemployed, a single mother, or a teenage mother. i have no issue with people who are willing to work their way out of their situation.

going back to me and my girlfriend, i come from a very "liberal" family when it comes to religion, sex, politics and to be honest most things. the house was stocked with phenomenal levels of literature about anything, so if i wanted to know, i found a book and started reading. my girlfriend came from a vey conservative background, their wasnt any oppurtunity within the family for discussions of "difficult" topics with her parents, or any other form of learning about them.

i lost my virginity at the age of 15, she lost hers at the age of 13 (seperately, lol). why was it that she lost hers so much earlier than me? was it because the only source of education was experimentation?

my girlfriend has had several pregnancy scares in her life, mistakes happen. every time it has miscarried due to ovarian cysts (i think that the right term). we have had 2 pregnancy scares, one where she actually was, and one was stress induced postponement of her menstrual cycle. as i said, im 25 and shes 23, if she hadnt miscarried as early as she did, we would have aborted because neither of us feel ready. when we do have children we want to be in a position to provide for them utterly.

i suppose what im trying to say is that the judgemental views, vile language and horrendous prejudice displayed in this thread are really quite disgusting. ive read the article, it claims that they had unprotected sex and that the girl though she wouldnt get pregnant as it was her first time. fine, ok, she was REALLY fucking dumb, but can any of you actually imagine how fucking terrifying being pregnant at eleven years old could be? this girl could have that child and by the time her gcse's come round it could be in childcare and she could be back in school, and she will have something that very few other children have at that age, something that needs her to succeed. maybe she will do well, maybe she will fuck up, but for fuck's sake, let her try and fix her mistake, and if she doesnt, THEN you can rip shit out of her.

how many of you have made a mistake and wished you could fix it?
how many of you would want the chance to fix it?

darkside

sorry about the rant guys, just think that peeps here need to read the stereotypes thread and try and avoid judging without the facts a little more, know what i mean?

darkside

sorry about the rant guys, just think that peeps here need to read the stereotypes thread and try and avoid judging without the facts a little more, know what i mean?

darkside

I agree.

sorry about the rant guys, just think that peeps here need to read the stereotypes thread and try and avoid judging without the facts a little more, know what i mean?

darkside
I understand where you're coming from regarding the character of the mother, but the link between underage pregnancy and underage sex is not a stereotype; it is, to be blunt, a bloody obvious indication of behaviour.

I consider myself to be relatively liberal. You're free to make your own decisions and I have no right to stop you. But it is my experience that kids under the age of 16 can be one of two things:

1) They can be equipped in the talents and skills required to economically provide for themselves and a potential family, or
2) They can be emotionally prepared to raise a family.

No child, regardless of social background, is ever both of these things. It is simply how the education and development in kids works in this country; until the later years of their academic life (read maturity), they are either underperformers, they are social outcasts or they are both. What's more, the younger they are, the less capable they are in these traits.

Now, yes, it can work. If the child is sufficiently emotionally developed, they can depend on other sources for economic provision during parenthood while they build up the skills that they should have done before. But this is an unfair and, frankly, unnecessary burden to lump upon anyone else. Depending on one's parents or wider family and community is no different ethically to depending on the state; it still implies a shift in responsibility to those better equipped to deal with the problem and a theft of resources from those individuals.

Where did your 13-year old friend get the money to deal with the kid? What happened to it while she was being educated? How many people did she inconvenience and hassle over it? Whether or not she eventually became ready and able to be a parent does not change the fact that she was not ready or able at the time of conception or birth. If she had been, which stands a greater chance of being the case at a later age, she would have been a great parent from the word "go" rather than being forced to let other people make up for her shortfalls in the meantime.

This is essentially what it all boils down to - becoming a parent as a minor can not a personal right since the new mother can not possibly be capable of providing for it by herself. To do so out of selfish "curiosity" or "experimentation" is an enfringement upon those around you, whether that is your intention or not. Thus I do not feel that I am being stereotypical in my condemnation of teenage or preteen pregnancy.

However, I must reaffirm, of course, that I merely disapprove of the parents, and I wish no harm on them. I just want them to acknowledge the folly of their actions, is all.

I had to have an abortion when I was ten. The baby probably would have killed me, and would have had some serious genetic problems because the father was also my father. But still, I wonder if I did the right thing. It was a baby...

To all those who have wondered about rather heartless statements:

If the child had just been raped and had become pregnant, I might've understood it and accepted it, blaming the boy for all her problems.

First, however, she is drinking and drunk. At eleven. Without supervision. Now, I don't mind drinking when you are that young, but you should have supervision, simply on account of the fact that you probably have no clue when to stop - at least an older sibling or good friends, not friends like that boy.

Second, she has been smoking since 9. Okay, other people have too. She gets pregnant and she continues to smoke and arrogantly states that she could stop whenever, but doesn't feel it harms the child. Sorry bitch, it does and no, you can't just stop unless you actually do it. And I wouldn't be surprised if she's also been drinking during her pregnancy.

Third, she doesn't seem to realize what it means to be a parent. I congratulate her mother for being helpful (although being proud? wtf? I guess she is being rather brave). Regardless...

She has shown how irresponsible she is and she is fully incapable of taking care of this child. Her mother has shown equally how worthless she is. If she dies, I won't cry, just like I wouldn't cry about any other person that has died that I didn't know. Some people I don't know, I might feel sorry for their death, but I won't feel sorry for her. If her child is taken away from her, I will not be surprised, as she seems fully incapable to take care of this child.

I had to have an abortion when I was ten. The baby probably would have killed me, and would have had some serious genetic problems because the father was also my father. But still, I wonder if I did the right thing. It was a baby...
Erm...

... wow. That is a dilemma.

It would not be fair to force you to go ahead with that birth. It is a decision that you and you alone are allowed to make, and it is one where both results will be understood and accepted. In this scenario, I think it is best for you to have done what you did. That child would most likely have prevented the life of any other children you may have in the future and would have gained very little in return.

I know it's not much comfort, but most of that which would have been the child may be reformed in the future into other children that will live full and decent lives with you. The child is still potential within you, and still has a chance to live. So I would not grieve for it just yet.

You're a monster. Subhuman and truly undeserving of existance. If I weren't opposed to violence, I would wish some upon you.
So people who believe things different from you don't deserve to exist? That is in itself a contemptible attitude. But while I'm not opposed to violence in the slightest, in fact I revel in it, I won't wish any upon you because you really aren't worth my time.

I cant lay blame on an eleven year old child, there is obviously something wrong with how her parents have brought her up when she manage to go out and get drunk at the age of 10.
Sigh. The parents are indeed partly at fault here. But I'm still more inclined to blame her for going out and doing those things anyway. There's always the choice not to. I can think of no way in which the parents could have caused such a thing, except by physically forcing her to drink and smoke, which seems a bit unlikely...

That doesn't mean that they should be legally permitted to.
And making contraceptives readily available will induce promiscuity. And legalising homosexuality will make everyone turn gay. :rolleyes:

So people who believe things different from you don't deserve to exist? That is in itself a contemptible attitude. But while I'm not opposed to violence in the slightest, in fact I revel in it, I won't wish any upon you because you really aren't worth my time.


Sigh. The parents are indeed partly at fault here. But I'm still more inclined to blame her for going out and doing those things anyway. There's always the choice not to. I can think of no way in which the parents could have caused such a thing, except by physically forcing her to drink and smoke, which seems a bit unlikely...

There isn't much in the way of choice when your one parent is hopped up on drugs all the time, is there? You'd leave. And think of something to pass the time.

There isn't much in the way of choice when your one parent is hopped up on drugs all the time, is there? You'd leave. And think of something to pass the time.
There are plenty of other things to do to pass the time. When my parents were not paying much attention to me as a kid I found plenty of things to do that didn't involve drinking, smoking, or sexual intercourse.

That kind of things happen here in Venezuela on a daily basis. My brother is chief of an ER, and he sees that kind of stuff at least thrice a day.

How different our cultures are! We stopped to amaze ourselves at that. at least it still affect your public opinion matrix!

There are plenty of other things to do to pass the time. When my parents were not paying much attention to me as a kid I found plenty of things to do that didn't involve drinking, smoking, or sexual intercourse.

I'm assuming, however, that your parents weren't chasing the dragon...

And making contraceptives readily available will induce promiscuity. And legalising homosexuality will make everyone turn gay. :rolleyes:
I'm confused. I'm all in favour of contraceptives and legal homosexuality; there are very few reasons against either of them.

My questioning was whether or not common occurance necessitates legality. Take distribution of music in violation of copyright. Everyone does it. However, there is a reason it is illegal, and that is in order to protect the ability of an individual to retain the rights to distribute their own intellectual property. Any reconsideration of its legality needs to take this into account.

It is similarly the case with underage sex. Sure, kids might do it all the time, but if there are other serious concerns about legally permitting them to do so then it will not necessary be legalised.

See, I cant really complain about people that young having sex. Puberty unleashes an animalian instinct to have sex. The problem I have is that alot of responsibility comes with having sex, especially having a baby, and they are too young to handle that responsibility. These children were never taught that. Somewhere along the line, someone screwed up, and I am not going to blame the child.

My questioning was whether or not common occurance necessitates legality. Take distribution of music in violation of copyright. Everyone does it. However, there is a reason it is illegal, and that is in order to protect the ability of an individual to retain the rights to distribute their own intellectual property. Any reconsideration of its legality needs to take this into account.

Well first of all, The recording industry takes the materials of the artists they sign and make it their own. An artist makes next to nothing on cd sales anyway. Promotions, endorsements, and tours are what rakes in the cash.

Second, many people file share and its not hurting them one bit.

What youre asking is a topic that goes under philosophy of law, and possibly requires its own thread, because theres alot to say about it.

I'm confused. I'm all in favour of contraceptives and legal homosexuality; there are very few reasons against either of them.
The reasoning you're using against underage sex is very similar to the reasoning anti-gay and anti-contraceptive people use: just because it happens frequently doesn't mean it should be legal, as legalising it would cause more people to do it.

It is similarly the case with underage sex. Sure, kids might do it all the time, but if there are other serious concerns about legally permitting them to do so then it will not necessary be legalised.
What are these other serious concerns?

The reasoning you're using against underage sex is very similar to the reasoning anti-gay and anti-contraceptive people use: just because it happens frequently doesn't mean it should be legal, as legalising it would cause more people to do it.
Well yes, but there are other reasons to encourage contraception, and no reason to disallow homosexuality (I'm not saying encourage, since the idea of actively encouraging any sort of sexual preference seems a little silly).

What are these other serious concerns?
Essentially, beyond the typical "it's conventional, therefore breaking it is obviously wrong" deontological argument that most people seem to resort to, the concerns are threefold;

1) The economic and social issues of teen pregnancy, which have mostly been raised already.

2) The demonstrable inability of children to maintain relationships with their sexual partners to any long-term degree, the implication of promiscuity this suggests and the resulting fears of STDs and health problems.

3) The fragility of the maturing emotional and intellectual psyche. The way people relate to others and to themselves is often well founded in their growth during their teens, and sex is certainly a powerful emotional experience that may damage them mentally in the long run.

Lowering the legal age of consent requires formal ethical consideration of these issues, to which there appears to be little opposition beyond "But they like it, and will do it anyway".

legal age of sex in the UK is actually 16 not 12

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.

Agreed!:gundge:

This' way too sickening:headbang:

I think this is all a bit ridiculous, myself. Mostly, I can't understand the parents. Obviously, they're not talented in the parenting area, if something like this was even abled to happen.

I only have time to read the first page of posts, but let me get something clear.

Have any of you asses seen the pic of that 11-year-old "child"? She's bigger than her fucking mother! She could pass for 19, and then some. If she didn't tell the boy what her age was, how the hell was he supposed to know? Now, if she did tell him her age, what he did was disgusting. But, like I said, if he didn't know, he didn't know.

And that baby's not going to kill that girl, that is, unless the baby's going to be a 20 pound behemoth.

Have any of you asses seen the pic of that 11-year-old "child"? She's bigger than her fucking mother! She could pass for 19, and then some. If she didn't tell the boy what her age was, how the hell was he supposed to know? Now, if she did tell him her age, what he did was disgusting. But, like I said, if he didn't know, he didn't know.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

I mean, what 15 year old boy would have sex with an 11 year old, unless her physical appearance deceived the eye about her age? Now, unless that boy was really ugly, he could've been laid by someone about his age...

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

I mean, what 15 year old boy would have sex with an 11 year old, unless her physical appearance deceived the eye about her age? Now, unless that boy was really ugly, he could've been laid by someone about his age...

There are some people that would have sex with anything.

I had to have an abortion when I was ten. The baby probably would have killed me, and would have had some serious genetic problems because the father was also my father. But still, I wonder if I did the right thing. It was a baby...
I think the chance of malformation due to inbreeding is low during the first two generations of inbreeding, and skyrockets after that. I could be wrong though.

I don't know wether the incest in your case was consensual or not, but if it wasn't, then he probably deserves to be jailed, if he isn't already.

EDIT: But if you must know, i'm (personally, not officially) against abortion in all cases except rape.

I only have time to read the first page of posts, but let me get something clear.

Have any of you asses seen the pic of that 11-year-old "child"? She's bigger than her fucking mother! She could pass for 19, and then some. If she didn't tell the boy what her age was, how the hell was he supposed to know? Now, if she did tell him her age, what he did was disgusting. But, like I said, if he didn't know, he didn't know.

And that baby's not going to kill that girl, that is, unless the baby's going to be a 20 pound behemoth.
That reminded me. Where's the link on the first post/page?

Who here still thinks capital punishment is morally wrong? :headbang:



>The Jackson Sun
>
>
>JACKSON, Tenn. - McKenzie, Tenn., police have charged two Carroll County
>parents with raping their child.
>
>The parents, ages 19 and 18, are charged with raping their 1-day-old girl
>before she was taken home from McKenzie Regional Hospital about six weeks
>ago, said McKenzie Police Lt. Tim Nanney.
>
>
>
>
>Although both parents have been charged, the mother's bond was reduced
>because police still are investigating what role, if any, she played in the
>possible rape of her child, Nanney said. She was charged because "I could
>not exclude her from being part of it, so I had to charge her also. I could
>not exclude her at the time from being a participant of it."
>
>Nanney said hospital officials notified police of the possible rape after
>noticing injuries to the child's rear during a routine examination given
>before newborns are released from the hospital.
>
>"There were some skin tears in and around the private (back) area of the
>child," he said.
>
>The investigation led to the child's parents, Nanney said, and there was no
>indication that any hospital worker was involved in the incident.
>
>"Based on the investigation, we ruled out everyone but the mom and the dad,"
>Nanney said.
>
>The Tennessee Department of Children's Services has placed the baby girl
>with a relative, Nanney said. The parents are not allowed to have contact
>with the girl, who is now about 6 weeks old.
>
>The couple was engaged to be married and was living at the Value Inn Motel
>on Highland Drive in McKenzie at the time of the incident. The mother is a
>McKenzie native, and the father also has relatives living in Carroll County,
>though Nanney did not know his hometown.
>
>The father is being held in the Carroll County Jail in lieu of $100,000
>bond.
>
>The mother's bond was reduced to $5,000 after her arraignment. Nanney did
>not know if she still was being held or had been released.
>
>While no trial date has been set, Nanney said one probably would not occur
>before September.
>
>The Tennessean does not identify alleged victims of sexual assault, and the
>parents' names are being withheld to protect the identity of the child.

I think the chance of malformation due to inbreeding is low during the first two generations of inbreeding, and skyrockets after that. I could be wrong though.

I don't know wether the incest in your case was consensual or not, but if it wasn't, then he probably deserves to be jailed, if he isn't already.

EDIT: But if you must know, i'm (personally, not officially) against abortion in all cases except rape.

So children whose mothers' were raped don't deserve life? Granted, the mother didn't want the child, but adoption can give that child a chance to live.

Who here still thinks capital punishment is morally wrong? :headbang:



>The Jackson Sun
>
>
>JACKSON, Tenn. - McKenzie, Tenn., police have charged two Carroll County
>parents with raping their child.
>
>The parents, ages 19 and 18, are charged with raping their 1-day-old girl
>before she was taken home from McKenzie Regional Hospital about six weeks
>ago, said McKenzie Police Lt. Tim Nanney.
>
>
>
>
>Although both parents have been charged, the mother's bond was reduced
>because police still are investigating what role, if any, she played in the
>possible rape of her child, Nanney said. She was charged because "I could
>not exclude her from being part of it, so I had to charge her also. I could
>not exclude her at the time from being a participant of it."
>
>Nanney said hospital officials notified police of the possible rape after
>noticing injuries to the child's rear during a routine examination given
>before newborns are released from the hospital.
>
>"There were some skin tears in and around the private (back) area of the
>child," he said.
>
>The investigation led to the child's parents, Nanney said, and there was no
>indication that any hospital worker was involved in the incident.
>
>"Based on the investigation, we ruled out everyone but the mom and the dad,"
>Nanney said.
>
>The Tennessee Department of Children's Services has placed the baby girl
>with a relative, Nanney said. The parents are not allowed to have contact
>with the girl, who is now about 6 weeks old.
>
>The couple was engaged to be married and was living at the Value Inn Motel
>on Highland Drive in McKenzie at the time of the incident. The mother is a
>McKenzie native, and the father also has relatives living in Carroll County,
>though Nanney did not know his hometown.
>
>The father is being held in the Carroll County Jail in lieu of $100,000
>bond.
>
>The mother's bond was reduced to $5,000 after her arraignment. Nanney did
>not know if she still was being held or had been released.
>
>While no trial date has been set, Nanney said one probably would not occur
>before September.
>
>The Tennessean does not identify alleged victims of sexual assault, and the
>parents' names are being withheld to protect the identity of the child.

That's fucking sick!!!
That makes me sick..yes, can we kill them? If not, I think this is a special case in which it would be propper.
It's like, you can't believe something like that happened, but who wants to believe something like that happened.

So children whose mothers' were raped don't deserve life? Granted, the mother didn't want the child, but adoption can give that child a chance to live.
You have a point there, but I refuse to interfere in the personal decision of a rape victem, except to voice my opinions and be supportive.

It seems that they left out some details out of this story. I read about this yesterday, apparently on some other site. In that version they told that the girl started smoking when she was 9 and drinking when she was 10. She continues smoking today and says that "she could quit anytime, but doesn't feel it hurts the child". So not only does she endanger herself, she does double damage to the baby as well.


I have lost all faith in Humanity.....

GAH! A ZOMBIE!

http://www.boudist.com/images/zombie.jpg

Who here still thinks capital punishment is morally wrong? :headbang:



>The Jackson Sun
>
>
>JACKSON, Tenn. - McKenzie, Tenn., police have charged two Carroll County
>parents with raping their child.
>
>The parents, ages 19 and 18, are charged with raping their 1-day-old girl
>before she was taken home from McKenzie Regional Hospital about six weeks
>ago, said McKenzie Police Lt. Tim Nanney.
>
>
>
>
>Although both parents have been charged, the mother's bond was reduced
>because police still are investigating what role, if any, she played in the
>possible rape of her child, Nanney said. She was charged because "I could
>not exclude her from being part of it, so I had to charge her also. I could
>not exclude her at the time from being a participant of it."
>
>Nanney said hospital officials notified police of the possible rape after
>noticing injuries to the child's rear during a routine examination given
>before newborns are released from the hospital.
>
>"There were some skin tears in and around the private (back) area of the
>child," he said.
>
>The investigation led to the child's parents, Nanney said, and there was no
>indication that any hospital worker was involved in the incident.
>
>"Based on the investigation, we ruled out everyone but the mom and the dad,"
>Nanney said.
>
>The Tennessee Department of Children's Services has placed the baby girl
>with a relative, Nanney said. The parents are not allowed to have contact
>with the girl, who is now about 6 weeks old.
>
>The couple was engaged to be married and was living at the Value Inn Motel
>on Highland Drive in McKenzie at the time of the incident. The mother is a
>McKenzie native, and the father also has relatives living in Carroll County,
>though Nanney did not know his hometown.
>
>The father is being held in the Carroll County Jail in lieu of $100,000
>bond.
>
>The mother's bond was reduced to $5,000 after her arraignment. Nanney did
>not know if she still was being held or had been released.
>
>While no trial date has been set, Nanney said one probably would not occur
>before September.
>
>The Tennessean does not identify alleged victims of sexual assault, and the
>parents' names are being withheld to protect the identity of the child.



I rest my case



GAH! A ZOMBIE!

http://www.boudist.com/images/zombie.jpg


hahahaha!!!

...The successful birth will make her the youngest mother in the United Kingdom. Dorset's Jenny Teague is currently Britain's youngest mum after giving birth at 12 and nine months in 1997 to a baby girl named Sasha...


I wonder if Jenny is upset that her record may soon be broken. She could lose some endorsement deals.

I only have time to read the first page of posts, but let me get something clear.

Have any of you asses seen the pic of that 11-year-old "child"? She's bigger than her fucking mother! She could pass for 19, and then some. If she didn't tell the boy what her age was, how the hell was he supposed to know? Now, if she did tell him her age, what he did was disgusting. But, like I said, if he didn't know, he didn't know.

And that baby's not going to kill that girl, that is, unless the baby's going to be a 20 pound behemoth.
Do you have a picture?

She's supposed to pop that kid out like what, July or something? Or June..who knows she may have already had it. Does anyone know?

That's fucking sick!!!
That makes me sick..yes, can we kill them? If not, I think this is a special case in which it would be propper.
It's like, you can't believe something like that happened, but who wants to believe something like that happened.
Am I the only one who noticed that there was no evidence against the father mentioned in that entire article. Only "the elimination of all other suspects".

What the hell? They don't need evidence against you to take your child away and lock you up? All they need is evidence that something happened to your child and no evidence that it wasn't you who did it?

I repeat. What the hell?

Sweet Zombie Jesus!
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/lblackwell/2005/03/01/thread_necromancer.png

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.
Die.

She sounds very Neducated. Maybe she'll miscarry from all that smoking, Buckfast and MD20/20.

Yes, this attitude is quite disgusting.

I agree that is quite a disgusting attitude to have.
I mean think about this, kids learn from their parents and their enviornment, calling her a whore only means she was taught to b that way by the surroundings. And what kinda parent allows their 11 year old kid to go out and get drunk. Lets hope this kid isn't raised by the grandparents, because obviously they rnt' good at it.

We're supposed to be having babies as teens...

@ Christian Groups: Go away! :gundge:

I'd feel sorry for the baby most of all when it grows up. Your mother smoking and drinking while pregnant, being raised by someone who was irresponsible enough to be having unprotected sex at 11 with grandparents who were relatively okay with that, possibly aunts and uncles younger than you and being raised without a father or a father who has been imprisoned.

That kid will have some serious problems in later life.:(

We're supposed to be having babies as teens...

@ Christian Groups: Go away! :gundge:

I agree

I cannot beleive the attitude towards the girl I am seeing in th eposts this morning. Yes, she was stupid, yes, whe was dumb, but I think the thing that you all are forgetting is that she is 11 !!! At that age, making smart, sound, rational descisions is not something majority of 11 year olds can do. Hell, at eleven, I was still in 4th grade playing with dolls.

Obviously, if the girl thought she couldn't get pregenant since it was her first time, then she isn't all that educated. She had gotten kicked out of school for fighting, she drinks, and she smokes, do you all think that she is living a wonderful life at home? and where the hell are her parents? I am proud of my daughter...wha-whaaat???

all I am saying that wishing death upon this girl, that saying there is no remorse or feeling pity for her, well, I don't know if I necessarily agree. at that age, there is still a responsibility of the parents to instil values, raise their childeren, and, in general, watch out for them. of course, this is in a perfect world, but still, you would expect some sort of parenting from her parents. it just really bothers me that we are all so quick to dismiss her at a white trash whore, but in reality, she was uneducated, not taken care of, and probably had a very different home life than any of us (broad sweeping generalization, sorry)

again, yes, she is dumb, yes is she has no idea what the hell is going on, but I don't beleive that this is all her fault. put a little blame on the "proud mother." at age 11, this girl needed to have a hell of a lot more guidence.

Wow.

An eleven year old was drunk? That's strange enough.
Then she had sex with a 15yr old.. Damn. That 15yr old, wtf? That's fucked up. He needs a good smacking.

Who the hell was her mother who allowed to GO OUT WITH A 15 YEAR OLDand get drunk? It almost seems as if the mother WANTED this to happen.

We're supposed to be having babies as teens...

@ Christian Groups: Go away! :gundge:

:D

When I first started reading it, I assumed it was in the American South.
Then, I saw it was in Scotland.

and then it made sense...

The girl is smoking, drinking, **cking and pregnant at the age of 11? I swear, when that baby is born it's going to turn out to be like the son of satan or something...like The Omen. :p

The girl is smoking, drinking, **cking and pregnant at the age of 11? I swear, when that baby is born it's going to turn out to be like the son of satan or something...like The Omen. :p
How many days has she been pregnant? :eek:

Disgusting.

There is a very high chance that having the baby will kill her, and I won't feel sorry for her.I think your comment is disgusting.

Who the hell bumped this shit? It's ancient.

Who the hell bumped this shit? It's ancient.

I actually thought the same thing lol..i know i posted the thread, however I was really surprised.

It's funny that the Church would speak out on this considering that child brides were fairly common until the last century or so (my Irish Great-Grandmother was married at 12 and had her first of fourteen children at the age of 13).

Yes, that was common back then.

That kid will have some serious problems in later life.:(

This unborn kid actually sounds like someone who will go on to do great things in life... one of those crap roots things. If you look at the History, the rembered men and women usually come from terrible surroundings. Or were filthy rich to begin with...

I don't just blame the 2 kids that did it, I also blame the parents and society in general.
Everybody always wants to blame the parents. Whatever happened to individual responsibilty?

I know what I'm sick of. I'm sick of hearing people say she deserves it and they hope it kills her, etc. Thats fucking stupid. She's just a kid that screwed up. As for the 15 year old, thats a bit worse, considering I'm pretty sure he would know about sex by the time he's 15, and the kinda gross fact that he had sex with someone that young, but even so, if they were drunk, you don't exactly think straight when your drunk, and most kids get drunk and do stupid shit when they're that young. You people that say this shit about it are terrible.

I read about this several months ago. There was speculation that the girl was still smoking and drinking into the pregnancy, and her mother was quoted as being "proud" of her daughter. wtf?


EDIT: Aha! Here's a link http://movingoutmovingon.bloghi.com/2006/05/14/girl-11-will-be-britain-s-youngest-mother.html

Everybody always wants to blame the parents. Whatever happened to individual responsibilty?
At age 11 they are not considered to be completely personally responsible ... our society has recognized that inability to make fully competent decisions and therefore extends that responsibility to their legal GUARDIAN. That guardian is supposed to make the big decisions FOR the minor. The mother failed miserably at guarding her charge.

This unborn kid actually sounds like someone who will go on to do great things in life... one of those crap roots things. If you look at the History, the rembered men and women usually come from terrible surroundings. Or were filthy rich to begin with...

That child is not more or less likely to be remembered than any other person born today. Personal drive, ambition, encouragement from others -- those are the things that make someone more likely to succeed. Poverty, statistically, does increase one's chances of dying young, becoming a criminal, and having multiple, unplanned children,though.

This child may very well grow up with the ambition to outdo its mother -- either by being better or worse.

At age 11 they are not considered to be completely personally responsible ... our society has recognized that inability to make fully competent decisions and therefore extends that responsibility to their legal GUARDIAN. That guardian is supposed to make the big decisions FOR the minor. The mother failed miserably at guarding her charge.
Meh. If you're old enough to make a baby, you're old enough to deal with the consequences.

You know, I've heard a theory that the reason kids are hitting puberty earlier and thus bearing children younger has to do with the hormones in beef and such. Anybody know if there is any truth to that?

Meh. If you're old enough to make a baby, you're old enough to deal with the consequences.

You know, I've heard a theory that the reason kids are hitting puberty earlier and thus bearing children younger has to do with the hormones in beef and such. Anybody know if there is any truth to that?
How does ones ability to make a baby reflect on their mental capabilities?

Technically a 8 year old would be able to sign their name on a housing contract or loan paper but we don’t let them because they are not able to make an INFORMED decision. Why is this any different?