NationStates Jolt Archive

The U.S. has done some great things, and the U.S. has done some terrible things.

I'm proud that the U.S. intervened in Bosnia, ambivalent about Iraq, and ashamed that the U.S. intervened in Iran in the 1950's.

The U.S. allowed slavery to progress from a bad idea to absolute tyranny, but also stopped slavery, and has campaigned against it abroad.

The U.S. established Freedom of Religion (largely through the work of Baptists like Roger Williams), and is now heading toward Theocracy (largely through the work of Baptists like Jerry Falwell).

The U.S. banned the use of cruel and unusual punishment, and the U.S. public approves of torture so long as it is called "treatment" and is inflicted on unpopular minorities.

But, to be fair, other countries have many of the same problems. Why would I want to be associated with Canada? About half the torture victims I know were tortured by the government in Canada (especially Quebec), not the U.S.



Baldur

What is the point of the name debate?

Everyone who lives in North or South America is an American (refering to continent of origin, not nationality), just as everyone from Europe is a European (again, refering to countinent of origin, not nationality)

Why have we had 16 pages of debate about it? Why?

North America
Canada = Canadian
United States of America = American
Mexico = Mexican
Central America...need I go on?

I believe America is the greatest country on earth that is or has ever been. But I completly and uterly hate the current government and very concerned on where its going, ie..police state. At that point I would have no problem taking up arms against. Hopefully with fellow Americans at my side.

Try elections before the gun please.

What personally annoys me about America, is more or less agreeing with something Eutrusca used to have in his signature, but that appears to have disappeared since I saw it.

It's the whole, home of the brave, land of the free (though since my national anthem claims to be the home of the poet and the bard there may be a case of dark looking cooking implement applicable) thing.

And then the blatant failure (especially recently) to live up to the laudable ideals, and then claiming to live up to them.


"UKians"
We're UKites damnit, and don't you forget it:p

I'm proud to be an American, and proud to have served 26 years in her military.

*throw newspaper away*

I'm proud that the U.S. intervened in Bosnia...

And what the FUCK do you know about Bosnia?

*Picks newspaper from the flor, sits down and starts reading article - Fuck you moron*

What do I know about Bosnia? I know that the Serbs, Croats, and Muslims were all led by assholes who sought political power and sold out their followers in order to get it. I know that in process, over a hundred thousand (mostly civilians) were killed, and 2 million displaced. I know that U.S. intervention resulted in the loss of life, but not nearly so much as would have happened if the U.S. had not intervened.

I have a friend whose Serbian girlfriend saw the house next to her bombed by the Americans, killing those inside. But that same friend had seen a 7 year old Muslim neighbor girl shot by a sniper, probably Serbian but no one was sure. She lay in the street for hours before she died, and no one dared save her because she had been shot as bait. He didn't like the American bombing, but he also understood it.

My guess is: you think your faction should have won?


Baldur

What do I know about Bosnia? I know that the Serbs, Croats, and Muslims were all led by assholes who sought political power and sold out their followers in order to get it. I know that in process, over a hundred thousand (mostly civilians) were killed, and 2 million displaced. I know that U.S. intervention resulted in the loss of life, but not nearly so much as would have happened if the U.S. had not intervened.

I have a friend whose Serbian girlfriend saw the house next to her bombed by the Americans, killing those inside. But that same friend had seen a 7 year old Muslim neighbor girl shot by a sniper, probably Serbian but no one was sure. She lay in the street for hours before she died, and no one dared save her because she had been shot as bait. He didn't like the American bombing, but he also understood it.

My guess is: you think your faction should have won?


Baldur
*gently puts newspaper on the table*

First bold text: How US untervened? There was no ground combat, and NATO bombs did less damage than toothpicks.

Second bold text: Yeah, probably, maybe Adolf Hitler shoot him with sniper? Geez. Like Muslims didn't own and used sniper to target innocent people! Did you know that largest number of Serbs on one place, after Belgrade was in Sarajevo? How many Serbs are living in Sarajevo now?

Third bold text: There is no my faction in Bosnia, i wasn't born in Bosnia, i only passed thry Bosnia few times, while on my way to the coast. And generally: Is there winner of Bosnian war? No - Serbs didn't get their republic and/or unification with Serbia, Muslims are in real controll of about 30% of teritorry of Bosnia and Coats about 20%, so tell me - do you see winner in any of these nations?

Uderlined: You speak truth!

Bold/italic/underlined: 80% of deaths happened in 1992, US troops arrived in 1993. There is one year gap, dont you think? Most of casaulties (military and civillian) have Bosnian Muslims - They fighted war on three fronts - against Serbs, against Croats, and civil war inside muslim faction between Alija's muslims (who wanted independed muslim country) and Fikret's Muslims (who wanted to stay in union with Serbia) - i bet that most of Americans didn't know about the last one! Second by number of casaulties are Serbs, and last is Croats, however Serbs and Croats together didnt have as much deaths as Muslims.

*gently takes newspaper back and starts reading article - there is no good guyes/bad guyes view at the world*

Whoa, biiiig paragraphs + my short American attention span = Time to see a movie or eat a TV dinner or play a video game or something.

Go America! =)

North America
Canada = Canadian
United States of America = American
Mexico = Mexican
Central America...need I go on?

But those are all still in North America/the Americas. So, someone from Canada is Canadian by nationality, American or North American by continent, someone from Boliva is Bolivan by nationality, South Americam or American by continent, someone from France is French by nationality, European by continent, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

Mmm. I'm not American and I never quite understand why American's are so patriotic. Just don't get it.

When I was in school, there were 7 continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Austraila, and Antarctica. I'm not sure why some people consider Eurasia and America one continent (each) instead of two, but until I hear a convincing reason otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.

Europe and Asia are connected to eachother by tectonic plate, and there are no oceans inbetween them, they're one big giant landmass. Africa is just barely connected to Asia and Europe. N and S America are two separate landmasses conected by an isthmus, aka Panama. Australia and Antarctica are relatively far away from the other continents, unless you over-play the Strait of Magellan between S America and Antarctica. ^.^

And Central America is really part of North America, but most of its countries seem to be more like S American countries (as far as language and Spanish heritage.)

But those are all still in North America/the Americas. So, someone from Canada is Canadian by nationality, American or North American by continent, someone from Boliva is Bolivan by nationality, South Americam or American by continent, someone from France is French by nationality, European by continent, et cetera et cetera et cetera.

The dictionary does support your point.

A·mer·i·can Audio pronunciation of "American" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-mr-kn)
adj.

1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
3. Of or relating to any of the Native American peoples.
4. Indigenous to North or South America. Used of plants and animals.


n.

1. A native or inhabitant of America.
2. A citizen of the United States.
3. American English.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10908623

Mmm. I'm not American and I never quite understand why American's are so patriotic. Just don't get it.

Most Americans feel that despite our country's faults, we have the best country in the world and we are proud of that.

Zukariaa']
And yes, US citizens are called Americans. Why? We're the only country with 'America' in our name, thank you very much. You can shove that 'USian' crap.
That's circular logic. IMO it was presumptuous for the United States to call itself 'The United states of America' in the first place. It tends to ignore the exitence of other American countries and doesn't allow for the possibility of other states in the Americas to unite without inevitable confusion. Now if they'd chosen a different name or even the name 'Some United States of America' the problem would never have arisen. It's probably Manifest Destiny's fault.

I'm proud to be an earthling.

Most Americans feel that despite our country's faults, we have the best country in the world and we are proud of that.

On what basis is USA the best country in the world?

The U.S. has done some great things, and the U.S. has done some terrible things.

I'm proud that the U.S. intervened in Bosnia, ambivalent about Iraq, and ashamed that the U.S. intervened in Iran in the 1950's.

The U.S. allowed slavery to progress from a bad idea to absolute tyranny, but also stopped slavery, and has campaigned against it abroad.

The U.S. established Freedom of Religion (largely through the work of Baptists like Roger Williams), and is now heading toward Theocracy (largely through the work of Baptists like Jerry Falwell).

The U.S. banned the use of cruel and unusual punishment, and the U.S. public approves of torture so long as it is called "treatment" and is inflicted on unpopular minorities.

But, to be fair, other countries have many of the same problems. Why would I want to be associated with Canada? About half the torture victims I know were tortured by the government in Canada (especially Quebec), not the U.S.



Baldur


I do belive that usa is one of the few countries in the west(including my own and many other nations) that still uses death penalty and if you look at the indirect vilence to the third world done by the west with mutch help from the world police it is not too mutch to be proud of. Im not proud of the way my contry is doing "buisniss", pouring oil into the market polluting the world. Manufacturing parts for personell mines togheter with france, sendt to turkey for assembeling then sold to the USA and others. Of course I like living in a ritch contry being able to travel and build a nice house or basicly do whatever i want without going hungry or poor, but the price of capitalism is that when you have a ritch you will have a poor. It takes 10 kg of grain to produce 1kg of meat. Its like that in capitalism only worse. We can easely feed the world, but its not proffitable so it wont be done with money still in power.

The world is not a nice place right now, but I would say that USA might just be the ugliest of the ugly. Beeing proud of doing the shit they do.

Sweep your own porch before sweeping others( bad translation of something often said in norwegian)

as for religious freedom i would not want to be a muslim in USA.
And its really sickening how you take sides in the middleeast. call yourself a protector of democrasy. :upyours: eviil bloodsuckers


and I do apologise to all nice people that i might offend when they read this.
USA is have very beautiful nature.

The dictionary does support your point.

A·mer·i·can Audio pronunciation of "American" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-mr-kn)
adj.

1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
3. Of or relating to any of the Native American peoples.
4. Indigenous to North or South America. Used of plants and animals.


n.

1. A native or inhabitant of America.
2. A citizen of the United States.
3. American English.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10908623
To my knowledge, Columbians are often referred to as "Americans" by other Latin Americans.

I'm soooo glad I don't live in the usa!! Norway is much better! :cool:

but I do like american malls.... and victoria's secret ... and six flags ... and the cheesecake factory... and starbucks.. and crispy cream...

Errinundera']On what basis is USA the best country in the world?

What I said was some of us feel it is the best counrty in the world. I'm sure there are people in outher countries that feel theirs is the best in the world. There is nothing wrong with anyone taking pride in their country.

:eek: :sniper: :upyours:

gotta love american teenage humor

:eek: :sniper: :upyours:

gotta love american teenage humor

Welcome to NS. You are either going to love it or hate it. No one is ever luke warm about it.

What I said was some of us feel it is the best counrty in the world. I'm sure there are people in outher countries that feel theirs is the best in the world. There is nothing wrong with anyone taking pride in their country.

Seriously, on what basis do you think that America is the best country in the world?

America is not, in any way, the best country in the world.

Mmm. I'm not American and I never quite understand why American's are so patriotic. Just don't get it.

Me neither.

But then again, I never understood how anybody can even claim to know which country is the best in the world without having actually seen them all?
I guess the basis for a statement like that must be pure ignorance.

I am a proud patriotic Brit and suporter of the Empire and I think that the USA should still be Brittish call me old fasioned but that's the way I think. God Save the Queen!!

i agree

The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

It's the land of religious fanaticism, pop music, and lard burgers. It's one of the few first world nations to practice the death penalty and it has the lowest quality education in the first world as well. Hardly something to be proud of. In a nation where almost everyone considers questioning the government treason, Britney Speares is considered great music, and 65% of people are overweight, pride is the last thing a sane person would feel.

Do they put the family first?

The dictionary does support your point.

A·mer·i·can Audio pronunciation of "American" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-mr-kn)
adj.

1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture.
2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere.
3. Of or relating to any of the Native American peoples.
4. Indigenous to North or South America. Used of plants and animals.


n.

1. A native or inhabitant of America.
2. A citizen of the United States.
3. American English.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10908623


Thank you very much. Hopefully we still won't have people saying that it's not corrent to refer to South Americans as Americans.

By the by, I love the quote in the sig :)


That's circular logic. IMO it was presumptuous for the United States to call itself 'The United states of America' in the first place. It tends to ignore the exitence of other American countries and doesn't allow for the possibility of other states in the Americas to unite without inevitable confusion. Now if they'd chosen a different name or even the name 'Some United States of America' the problem would never have arisen. It's probably Manifest Destiny's fault.

Acully, I'm pretty sure we're called the United States of America because of the articles of confederation. We don't have a nation name, each state has a name, and we are the united states that are on the continent of America. When the colonies first won independence, they were almost sovergn entities seperate from each other.

No, but I wasn´t trying to counter it, but showing that it was based on a false assumption. Calling a Venezuelan American is not the same as calling a New Zealander Australian, however it's the same as calling a New Zealander Oceanian. Or a Swedish European for that matter.

It is *exactly* the same thing: it is a falsehood.

Swedes are Europeans: they are a country in Sweden, and there is no "United States of Europe" to lay claim to the name. (I go into this more below, please read that part before responding to this part).

A New Zealander is not an Australian. Both may be Oceanians, if that is a continent. (I don't believe it is, but I must admit it does clean up the problem of having most of the Pacific being in Asia...)

It would, were such ignorance not the rule.

You get points for smugness, but not for impressing anybody with your attitude.

Google Surina, Guyana, and French Guyana.

Suriname- Independent from the Dutch in 1975.
French Guyana - Still part of France.
Guyana - Dutch, then British, independent since 1966.
Point granted.

That's your source? A school textbook? And you don't want me to patronize you?

We were talking about education, I believe. I can't easily scan other English books into NS for you, but that site is my point entirely: it is what is being taught.

Not nearly. And your book misses on General Captainships, the two later Viceroyalties and a lot of territorial give and take that went on for three centuries.

It's just one example. There are many more out there. Further, I doubt your own schoolbooks went into deep detail regarding the rule of Joseph the II in Austro-Hungary, or much about Patrick Henry. (Slovak vs. US schools, here).

Funny. An 1814 source in English. I haven't been able to find a single Portuguese source that calls Brazil New Portugal. The closest I've come to find is The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarve. That tells me the name was either limited to a single region of Brazil, very temporary or given to it by people not the Portuguese. Unless you can come with a Portuguese source from the 16th C.

You miss the point: You say there never was a New Portugal. I give you PROOF that it existed as a name. End of proof.

Funny? Hardly. 1814 is as valid a year as any other. Moreso, because it shows that it was in use at a specific time.
Or do you doubt that Brazil is not an independent country because the treaty with Portugal was signed in 1822? Was there no Brazil before then?

The fact that it is in English has no bearing: I speak English, Polish, Slovak, Czech and (some not very good) German. I'm not going to learn Portuguese and/or Spanish, so I'm just going to have to take your word that you can't find any.
That map is a PROOF. If you won't accept it, then I must leave this little debate since not only do you believe only what you were taught was right, but that even physical proof is worthless. In which case, I might as well have a debate about the Holocaust with David Irving.

Words can have to meanings. American can mean a natural of the USA or a natural of the American continent. What's the problem with that?
No one's saying that being born in the American continent gives you legal rights in the USA.

Because it is not the case: there is no American continent. There are the North and South American continents. America refers to the United States of America.

And actually, you are. If you were to go to any random place in the world that you've never been to (say, the Cafe Central in Vienna) and say you were born in America, they're going to ask you in which city or state.
If you say "La Paz, Boliva", they're going to think you're off your rocker.

Find me a Portuguese source first or a source from the 16th C. And yes, the Spanish took advantage of the fact that the pope was Spanish and argued that Portugal already had numerous colonies in Africa to get such an advantageous position. Portugal kept fighting and they eventually were conceded more territory. But you misunderstand, the point was not to divide South America (that was not even called that back then) but all the new territories that happened to be discovered. At the time they didn't even know how much that would be.

I don't need to, as I am not constrained to argue in a language I don't understand.
Nope, I know it was for all new territories. Exactly. And it was a lever applied in Asia as well.

Not until you can come up with a Portuguese or older source.

I've already submitted an example of New Portugal. If you don't accept what your eyes can see, I don't know what to tell you.

Why an older source?
If we are discussing history, an example from ANY period is valid.

Why a Portuguese source?
Are you saying that only the Brazilians and Portugese may record the history of an area, or that anyone else is not allowed an opinion? Excellent! I never want to hear ANYTHING about Iraq from anyone from a country whose troops are not there. :rolleyes:

I believe I already mentioned Guyana.

Yes, I accede your point.

And the Basques and Portuguese. Don't forget those. They had presence in Newfoundland too.

And the Swedes were in New Jersey and the Dutch in NY & Connecticut. However, none of these founded states -- only small/minor settlements that merged with the larger English settlements.
I'd hazard to say that the Basques and Portugese in Newfoundland were probably less of an influence than the Confederates that fled to Brazil or the Germans that fled to Argentina.

And yes, Americas has also been used to refer to the continent. The continent has also been called the West Indies, as well as America.
If you base your claim never having read America in that meaning, here, do some reading:
http://www.cubaminrex.cu/josemarti/jose%20marti%20vers%20ingles/marti-our%20america-ing.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1819bolivar.html -- sadly just a fragment, but look how Bolívar uses America, Americans and North Americans.
Here's a map from 1770: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MapaAm%C3%A9ricaJonghe.JPG
Here's another one a tad older: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/maps/3_0_exp/05140302_e.html

Okay:

RE: Marti's excerpt: I'd be more impressed if South America was one (or perhaps two to three) countries than what it is. He differentiates North America!
" these deserters who take up arms in the army of a North America that drowns its Indians in blood and is growing worse!"

RE: Bolivar's 1819 speech: He ALSO clearly seperates North America from South America. "Would it not be most difficult to apply to Spain the English system of political, civil, and religious liberty: Hence, it would be even more difficult to adapt to Venezuela the laws of North America"

Both of these are saying America is not North America. So obviously, they're in South America, and are merely dropping the "South", just as the OAS drops both the North and South for brevity's sake. Thanks for giving me the ammunition!

RE: 1770 map. I'm not going to be hard on you, because I assume you don't speak German. However in German, the plural of Amerika is... Amerika.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
The earliest known use of the name America for the greater landmass dates from 1507. It appears on a globe and a large map created by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges.
...which I don't argue. My quibble is that one there became a United States of America it became incorrect to speak of the whole landmass as America.

RE: 1570 map. As above, I don't argue that. My quibble is that one there became a United States of America it became incorrect to speak of the whole landmass as America.

Not at all, I know that perfectly. In fact, it's in that difference in perception that I base my argument that people from the continent can be called Americans without being in error. You say that it would be erroneous, yet there are numerous examples that this happens also in English. Even if we divide the continent in North and South, what do we call a group of people from the Americas? Americasians? No, they're simply Americans.

We call them North or South Americans here in the US. My friends/relatives in Slovakia do the same over there. The only ones I see calling themselves Americans (when they are not) are some folks from South America. Hmm.

And as we had seen before, the Organization of American States is a club for the 50 states of the USA, right?

Ok, I'll try it this way: The Organization of American States has members which are both North and South American. It not being called Organization of North and South American States doesn't do a thing to make Venezuelians Americans. They're from Venezuela, which is a South American country.

Further: The US plays football. Does that mean that if the Pittsburgh Steelers can play Treze Futebol Clube? I think not.
Yet but both teams would show up to play football. However, I would not say that Pele and Jeff Hartings are both football players. Jeff Hartings plays football, Pele played soccer. Or, if you prefer: Jeff Hartings plays American Football, Pele played football.

Until there is another government with the name "America" in it in either continent, there are no Americans other than the ones in the USA.

And yet, they are in one continent. Along with Hungary and Ukraine which are still more different. Saudi Arabia and Korea are also in the same continent. And that's one of my points, the division by cultural differences is ambiguous at best.

Hungary is of course an oddity, as it's a state founded by remnants of the Mongol invasion, but then so is Estonia.

The Germanic countries, Slavic countries, Romantic countries, Scandinavian countries and the Anglo countries all are subgroups of Europe. No one would try to put Italy in Africa or Morrocco in Europe.

Same goes for Asia: Saudi Arabia and Korea (and most of Asia) use a non-latin alphabet, are non-Christian in historical terms, and have far more similarities such as dealing with the Mongol invasion.

My other point is that they're not radically different. Not like, say, Pakistan and Uganda. For you personally it may be important, but an objective look says otherwise.

Uganda and Pakistan have far less in common than Saudi and Korea. They are also clearly on different continents.

However if you were talking about a summit of American presidents, what would they understand?

If the Presidents were the Bushes, Clinton, Ford and Carter, yes.
Otherwise, I'd have to explain that there is a summit between Bush, and the Presidents of the South & Central American countries.

Peru by itself, not much. But the entirety of the countries in the continent, it does make sense.

Calling it South America (which it is), makes sense. Calling it America does not, as can be misconstrued that you are referring to the United States of America:

"Hey, Joseph! Did you hear about the hurricane that is coming towards America?"
"No, where will it hit?"
"Cuba, then it will probably go back to sea."
"Man, don't scare me like that!"

America is short for the United States of America. Any other use is ambiguous.

Of course, because that would confuse whatever they're trying to say. It doesn't mean that in other context and other situations refering to them as Americans would be incorrect.

Again, yes it does.

Surely you've got to be kidding. You're being condenscending to the extreme, and are doing nothing other than declaring yourself an expert that cannot be questioned. ROTFLMAO.

You can question me, but with real objective arguments. After you've read the history of the settlement of the entire continent, which you clearly have not, then you'll be able to refute me. Until you do so, you'll have to take the paternalist tone.

:confused: I have no idea what you're talking about here. I'm complaining about your tone, and you continue as if you are the only authority on the subject. As for taking a paternalist tone, I can do so, but I don't think you'd like that. :D

And there's not country named Europe, yet there are Europeans. Do you really mean to tell me that if the USA had chosen another name (Franklinia, for example) there´d be no Americans? Is that what you're trying to say? That the USA invented the name America? That it didn't exist and wasn't used before 1776?

If there was a country whose name incorporated Europe or Asia in it, then there would have to be some renaming of the continents, no question.

If the US was called Frankinia, then yes, you could refer to anyone from either contient as Americans, because it is no longer a misrepresentation.

No, the USA didn't invent the name, it was in common parlance far before then: the British were referring to the Colonials as Americans even before Pitt the Elder was born.

You were keen on proper names when we were discussing New Spain, why are you not about America? Heck, go type America into Wikipedia and see what comes up. OR IN ANY OTHER SEARCH ENGINE. First hits are always about the USA. Because that's what America is.

No, I'm saying that if you care to know about the history of this continent you have to do more than read high school text books and watch PBS documentaries.

No, what you're saying is that what you "know" is right and what I "know" is wrong. It is absurd to not allow different viewpoints when considering history.
I might as well just say "Mexico was always led by corrupt leaders except when the Archduke Maximillian was the Emperor", and say that anything you say to the contrary is false. Because you're doing the same thing.

You may want to go to the text of those countries that started the colonization, for example. I mean, if you really care to learn about the continent. If you're happy in your corner, it's ok.

Yes, I'm happy being an American. And I'd be happy for you to be an American too. Just start paying your taxes to Washington and we'll add another 20 stars to the flag. I like the sound of "The Big 68".
Heck, get Canada to join, make it "The Continental 81"! Then everyone on the North & South American continents would be Americans, barring the islands in the Caribbean.

http://www.themoderatevoice.com/files/themoderatevoice-american-flag-small.gif

It's the land of religious fanaticism, pop music, and lard burgers. It's one of the few first world nations to practice the death penalty and it has the lowest quality education in the first world as well. Hardly something to be proud of. In a nation where almost everyone considers questioning the government treason, Britney Speares is considered great music, and 65% of people are overweight, pride is the last thing a sane person would feel.

Yet if gave the world modern Democracy, the first Constitution, is the #1 economy in the world, went to the moon, and has a long list of inventive firsts.
Not bad for a country founded by those whom Europe was prejudiced against and didn't want. :)

(Ie: Maryland was the state for Catholics. Georgia was originally a debtor's work camp. Massachusettes for the Puritans, Pennsylvania for the Quakers... and that's only the English wave. Now consider the Irish, Poles, Italians, Germans, Swedes etc...)

It is *exactly* the same thing: it is a falsehood.

Swedes are Europeans: they are a country in Sweden, and there is no "United States of Europe" to lay claim to the name. (I go into this more below, please read that part before responding to this part).

A New Zealander is not an Australian. Both may be Oceanians, if that is a continent. (I don't believe it is, but I must admit it does clean up the problem of having most of the Pacific being in Asia...)



You get points for smugness, but not for impressing anybody with your attitude.



Suriname- Independent from the Dutch in 1975.
French Guyana - Still part of France.
Guyana - Dutch, then British, independent since 1966.
Point granted.



We were talking about education, I believe. I can't easily scan other English books into NS for you, but that site is my point entirely: it is what is being taught.



It's just one example. There are many more out there. Further, I doubt your own schoolbooks went into deep detail regarding the rule of Joseph the II in Austro-Hungary, or much about Patrick Henry. (Slovak vs. US schools, here).



You miss the point: You say there never was a New Portugal. I give you PROOF that it existed as a name. End of proof.

Funny? Hardly. 1814 is as valid a year as any other. Moreso, because it shows that it was in use at a specific time.
Or do you doubt that Brazil is not an independent country because the treaty with Portugal was signed in 1822? Was there no Brazil before then?

The fact that it is in English has no bearing: I speak English, Polish, Slovak, Czech and (some not very good) German. I'm not going to learn Portuguese and/or Spanish, so I'm just going to have to take your word that you can't find any.
That map is a PROOF. If you won't accept it, then I must leave this little debate since not only do you believe only what you were taught was right, but that even physical proof is worthless. In which case, I might as well have a debate about the Holocaust with David Irving.



Because it is not the case: there is no American continent. There are the North and South American continents. America refers to the United States of America.

And actually, you are. If you were to go to any random place in the world that you've never been to (say, the Cafe Central in Vienna) and say you were born in America, they're going to ask you in which city or state.
If you say "La Paz, Boliva", they're going to think you're off your rocker.



I don't need to, as I am not constrained to argue in a language I don't understand.
Nope, I know it was for all new territories. Exactly. And it was a lever applied in Asia as well.



I've already submitted an example of New Portugal. If you don't accept what your eyes can see, I don't know what to tell you.

Why an older source?
If we are discussing history, an example from ANY period is valid.

Why a Portuguese source?
Are you saying that only the Brazilians and Portugese may record the history of an area, or that anyone else is not allowed an opinion? Excellent! I never want to hear ANYTHING about Iraq from anyone from a country whose troops are not there. :rolleyes:



Yes, I accede your point.



And the Swedes were in New Jersey and the Dutch in NY & Connecticut. However, none of these founded states -- only small/minor settlements that merged with the larger English settlements.
I'd hazard to say that the Basques and Portugese in Newfoundland were probably less of an influence than the Confederates that fled to Brazil or the Germans that fled to Argentina.



Okay:

RE: Marti's excerpt: I'd be more impressed if South America was one (or perhaps two to three) countries than what it is. He differentiates North America!
" these deserters who take up arms in the army of a North America that drowns its Indians in blood and is growing worse!"

RE: Bolivar's 1819 speech: He ALSO clearly seperates North America from South America. "Would it not be most difficult to apply to Spain the English system of political, civil, and religious liberty: Hence, it would be even more difficult to adapt to Venezuela the laws of North America"

Both of these are saying America is not North America. So obviously, they're in South America, and are merely dropping the "South", just as the OAS drops both the North and South for brevity's sake. Thanks for giving me the ammunition!

RE: 1770 map. I'm not going to be hard on you, because I assume you don't speak German. However in German, the plural of Amerika is... Amerika.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
The earliest known use of the name America for the greater landmass dates from 1507. It appears on a globe and a large map created by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemüller in Saint-Dié-des-Vosges.
...which I don't argue. My quibble is that one there became a United States of America it became incorrect to speak of the whole landmass as America.

RE: 1570 map. As above, I don't argue that. My quibble is that one there became a United States of America it became incorrect to speak of the whole landmass as America.



We call them North or South Americans here in the US. My friends/relatives in Slovakia do the same over there. The only ones I see calling themselves Americans (when they are not) are some folks from South America. Hmm.



Ok, I'll try it this way: The Organization of American States has members which are both North and South American. It not being called Organization of North and South American States doesn't do a thing to make Venezuelians Americans. They're from Venezuela, which is a South American country.

Further: The US plays football. Does that mean that if the Pittsburgh Steelers can play Treze Futebol Clube? I think not.
Yet but both teams would show up to play football. However, I would not say that Pele and Jeff Hartings are both football players. Jeff Hartings plays football, Pele played soccer. Or, if you prefer: Jeff Hartings plays American Football, Pele played football.

Until there is another government with the name "America" in it in either continent, there are no Americans other than the ones in the USA.



Hungary is of course an oddity, as it's a state founded by remnants of the Mongol invasion, but then so is Estonia.

The Germanic countries, Slavic countries, Romantic countries, Scandinavian countries and the Anglo countries all are subgroups of Europe. No one would try to put Italy in Africa or Morrocco in Europe.

Same goes for Asia: Saudi Arabia and Korea (and most of Asia) use a non-latin alphabet, are non-Christian in historical terms, and have far more similarities such as dealing with the Mongol invasion.



Uganda and Pakistan have far less in common than Saudi and Korea. They are also clearly on different continents.



If the Presidents were the Bushes, Clinton, Ford and Carter, yes.
Otherwise, I'd have to explain that there is a summit between Bush, and the Presidents of the South & Central American countries.



Calling it South America (which it is), makes sense. Calling it America does not, as can be misconstrued that you are referring to the United States of America:

"Hey, Joseph! Did you hear about the hurricane that is coming towards America?"
"No, where will it hit?"
"Cuba, then it will probably go back to sea."
"Man, don't scare me like that!"

America is short for the United States of America. Any other use is ambiguous.



Again, yes it does.



:confused: I have no idea what you're talking about here. I'm complaining about your tone, and you continue as if you are the only authority on the subject. As for taking a paternalist tone, I can do so, but I don't think you'd like that. :D



If there was a country whose name incorporated Europe or Asia in it, then there would have to be some renaming of the continents, no question.

If the US was called Frankinia, then yes, you could refer to anyone from either contient as Americans, because it is no longer a misrepresentation.

No, the USA didn't invent the name, it was in common parlance far before then: the British were referring to the Colonials as Americans even before Pitt the Elder was born.

You were keen on proper names when we were discussing New Spain, why are you not about America? Heck, go type America into Wikipedia and see what comes up. OR IN ANY OTHER SEARCH ENGINE. First hits are always about the USA. Because that's what America is.



No, what you're saying is that what you "know" is right and what I "know" is wrong. It is absurd to not allow different viewpoints when considering history.
I might as well just say "Mexico was always led by corrupt leaders except when the Archduke Maximillian was the Emperor", and say that anything you say to the contrary is false. Because you're doing the same thing.



Yes, I'm happy being an American. And I'd be happy for you to be an American too. Just start paying your taxes to Washington and we'll add another 20 stars to the flag. I like the sound of "The Big 68".
Heck, get Canada to join, make it "The Continental 81"! Then everyone on the North & South American continents would be Americans, barring the islands in the Caribbean.



I refer you to the dictionary passage quoted in the post above.

Errinundera']The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

Interestingly, 6 of the 20 are English speakers.
English is the 21st century's lingua franca!! ;)

I refer you to the dictionary passage quoted in the post above.

Thanks, but I'm working on a usage front. Since the dictionary goes both ways, it hardly settles the matter. Not that posting in forums has ever settled anything anyway. :)

Interestingly, 6 of the 20 are English speakers.
English is the 21st century's lingua franca!! ;)

Has been for a bit.

Acully, I'm pretty sure we're called the United States of America because of the articles of confederation. We don't have a nation name, each state has a name, and we are the united states that are on the continent of America. When the colonies first won independence, they were almost sovergn entities seperate from each other.
I don't see how that changes matters. Maybe you should have thought up a proper nation name instead of some open ended description that marginalises the other countries on the continent.

I don't see how that changes matters. Maybe you should have thought up a proper nation name instead of some open ended description that marginalises the other countries on the continent.

Marginalise? Not at all! We're always interested in new members... it's been a little while (1959) since the most recent 2.

Marginalise? Not at all! We're always interested in new members... it's been a little while (1959) since the most recent 2.
That's sort of what I meant with the manifest destiny comment. It seems open ended enough a name to allow for, if not anticipate, more of the countries on the continent joining up.

Yet if gave the world modern Democracy...

And I thought the French gave the modern world democracy. Silly me.

As a non-American, America, in general, includes all the land from Canada to Chile. It can also specifically refer to the USA. English is full of ambiguities, ie the word "cat" is used specifically for the domestic pet but is also used for the whole genus, including lions and tigers.

That's sort of what I meant with the manifest destiny comment. It seems open ended enough a name to allow for, if not anticipate, more of the countries on the continent joining up.

Yep. Personally, I keep hoping for the Quebecois to win a vote. Canada without Quebec really isn't viable, and it would cut down on crime a lot if we only had to guard a southern border.
Mind you, we'll lose cheap drugs for seniors, but on the plus side will save a couple of minutes by only having to sing one national anthem at NHL games. :D

America = USA, the land of the free home of the brave.

and it's currently on a world wide tour now call "FREEDOM FOR U" it's so far hit some big successes including iraq, and Afghanistan. But has had to cancel some of it's showings such as france.


That is a load of crap. If you actually look properly, you should see that the way the Americans are running Iraq is almost as bad as when Saddam was running it. So, yeah, you can call it a success if you mean in terms of f***ing up the country.

Errinundera']And I thought the French gave the modern world democracy. Silly me.

As a non-American, America, in general, includes all the land from Canada to Chile. It can also specifically refer to the USA. English is full of ambiguities, ie the word "cat" is used specifically for the domestic pet but is also used for the whole genus, including lions and tigers.

Yes, indeed silly. The First French Republic was in 1792. The US Constitution was ratified in 1788, with Independence having been declared in 1776.
Never mind the Orleanists and the Napoleons running the place for awhile.

Yes, indeed silly. The First French Republic was in 1792. The US Constitution was ratified in 1788, with Independence having been declared in 1776.
Never mind the Orleanists and the Napoleons running the place for awhile.

You learn something every day.

Errinundera']You learn something every day.

:)

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_monarchs
...if you add up all the time from 1804 (fall of the 1st Republic) to 1870 (rise of the 3rd Republic), there are 62 years (read: all but 4 -- the 2nd Republic) in which France was led by a King or Emperor.

:)

BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_French_monarchs
...if you add up all the time from 1804 (fall of the 1st Republic) to 1870 (rise of the 3rd Republic), there are 62 years (read: all but 4 -- the 2nd Republic) in which France was led by a King or Emperor.

Next you're gonna tell me Americans invented ironclad warships.

Yet if gave the world modern Democracy.

That's a fairly controversial claim to make, and on that off the top of my head depends heavily on your definition of modern democracy.

Unless anyone here's Native American, then no-one else can really call themselves "American" (from USA)

I don't see how that changes matters. Maybe you should have thought up a proper nation name instead of some open ended description that marginalises the other countries on the continent.

Hey man, I didn't name it.

I'm on your side, it's correct to call anyone from North or South America an American. But at the same time, there nothing wrong with folk from the US being called Americans. It's alot shorter then "citizen of the US"

Yes, indeed silly. The First French Republic was in 1792. The US Constitution was ratified in 1788, with Independence having been declared in 1776.
Never mind the Orleanists and the Napoleons running the place for awhile.

Dispite the fact that the decleration of independence is basically paraphrased French philosophers, and the Constitution draws heavily on French philosophy, as well as Greek and Scandinavian idea that had been around for thousands of years.......

The founders didn't invent modern democracy, they realised that those Greeks and French were right.

Hey man, I didn't name it.
Yes, sorry about that; I'm normally more careful when talking about historical events to not use 'we' and 'you'. I did of course mean "They should have thought up a proper name".

All you international panzy's arejust pissed because america bitch slapped your country and no are doing our bidding. America conquerd the world.:eek:

Errinundera']And I thought the French gave the modern world democracy. Silly me.

As a non-American, America, in general, includes all the land from Canada to Chile. It can also specifically refer to the USA. English is full of ambiguities, ie the word "cat" is used specifically for the domestic pet but is also used for the whole genus, including lions and tigers.


thats funny and all this time I thouight it was the Greek philosophers and others that inspired many of the intelligenista of Europe and that a large group of them having emigrated to the colonies decide to actually attempt
the experament...Parrellel with those in Britain that had pretty much started the ball rolling with the Magna Carta...and I also note that AFTER the revolution in the colonies that formed The United States of America and the first modern democratic republic ( the US is a republic..not a " democracy " ) .
Then the French inspired by the example of the former colony of Great Britain decided to break out a can of whoop ass and take out the monarcy and have their own revolution...but since their were no Red Coats around they just killed each other.. "au loin avec sa tête ! " And once their bloody little revolution ended and they ran out of steam...they gave good old Napoleon Bonnaparte a big collective group hug and screaming.." liberte egalite et fraternite " !! then proceeded to go around Europe conquering the living shit outta people ...you arte free monsiour...now bow down before the emperor ! .....ahhh yes the good old days BTW what repulic number are the French up to these day's I lost track durring the immigration riots ..


Nowadays in France people are always remembered by the glorious day of 14 th july 1789

Declaration of Independence is dated 1776...we celibrate in the US independence day on July 4 th and our last centenial ( bicentenial celibration ) was celibrated in 1976..

At any rate do the math..


At any rate we as Americans are not defined by race ...we are NOT French or German or Russian or Italian etc...we are Americans and are held toghether by a belief in America and the ideals set forth in the CONSTITUTION ..the world is America and anyone can be an American .
The united States of America has its borders defined . Americans do not ..you may even be an American just waiting to break out ...;)


Pas comme le géant d'airain de la renommée grecque, avec conquérir des membres à califourchon sur de la terre à la terre ; Ici à notre mer-lavé, les portes de coucher du soleil s'élèveront la femme puissante de A avec un incendier, dont la flamme est la foudre emprisonnée, et sa mère nommée des exils. De sa balise-main rougeoie la bienvenue mondiale ; ses yeux doux commandent le port air-jeté un pont sur que les villes jumelles encadrent. "gardez, les terres antiques, vos storied la splendeur!" cris elle avec les lèvres silencieuses. "donnez-moi votre fatigué, vos pauvres, vos masses blotties aspirant à respirer librement, les ordures misérables de votre rivage de coulée. Envoyez ces derniers, le sans-abri, tempête-tost à moi, je soulèvent ma lampe près de la porte d'or!"

yu-hu, i believe there are millions of irrational muslims that are saying differently. Besides, the british empire was the biggest ever seen, so we win.

the world is America and anyone can be an American..

Sounds to me like the United Soviet American Republics.

Ahhh yes the " pax britania "... but then you went and ruined it with the opium war...not to mention letting your crazy cousin Kaiser Wilhelm II (Wilhelm, the son of Emperor Frederick II and Victoria, daughter of Queen Victoria, was born in Berlin in 1859. ) drag you into WW I ..with great enthusiasm I might add.." the world needs an enema " !

The great rallying cry of WW I ..too much peace for too long dammit..!


BTW how hard was it to give up the colony habit ?

Errinundera']Sounds to me like the United Soviet American Republics.


Try to buy a big mac in a soviet republic...or an apple or a pear...or a bowl of rice or own a home .. United States of America = the state belongs to you ..The united soviet anything = YOU belong to the state

seem to remember a Rousseu guy saying something along those lines ..

walk around as an " illegal ' immigrant protesting that you dont have the rights you want...go ahead why dont ya ...:D

in fact try some of that in France...oops you did...how long did the cars burn ??:D

Ultraextreme Sanity posted some things....

What I was alluding to was the way the Russian revolutionaries didn't see the revolution as a Russian event. It was an uprising of the proletariat of all nations. Thus the Soviet Union could include the entire world.

Your post had the same sinister tone.

Hmmm you take the fact that " America" is an Idea that all people can live together freely under the rule of law and prosper ..or fail no matter what race , creed , religion , gender as a sinister thing ?

Must explain why the fanatical Muslims have their panties in a bunch...I never thought of it that way..

Thanks for pointing that out .


Ohh and BTW the French had the same idea of "exporting " their revolution ..

The US on the other hand lets you export yourself right over here...unless you are an Iraqi and must be given liberty lessons using "shock and awe" and such....But in five ten years we will see how that turns out..:)

Interestingly, 6 of the 20 are English speakers.
English is the 21st century's lingua franca!! ;)
They also have considerably smaller populations than the US does, I think.

Unless anyone here's Native American, then no-one else can really call themselves "American" (from USA)
So you are saying that I'm the only who can call myself American? Actually we use Native American so as to distinguish ourselves from the Americans who are not Native Americans.

Whats nice about America is that clever people like me with a predilection for control and greed can do very well for themselves. If youre dumb and "hate the man" there are plenty of countries who will give support and aid to people too lazy or too unintelligent to work, but this isnt one of them. As far as international policy goes America sucks the big one, but where else will my lack of morality be accommodated so well? God I love America

They also have considerably smaller populations than the US does, I think.

Yeah... and more homogenic too.

Dispite the fact that the decleration of independence is basically paraphrased French philosophers, and the Constitution draws heavily on French philosophy, as well as Greek and Scandinavian idea that had been around for thousands of years.......

The founders didn't invent modern democracy, they realised that those Greeks and French were right.

Not despite, but because of.
Consider: all of the major powers had jet technology by the end of WW2. It took France & the UK to make the Concorde some 20 years earlier.
Just having an idea and putting it into practice are two very different things. That's why the Wright Brothers (of, if you like, Gustav Whitehead) were the first to fly and not Leonardo. :)

The American founding fathers most certainly invented modern democracy. That's not to say that there weren't ancient democracies (ie: Athens), or that others didn't have similar ideas, ideals, or thoughts.
But they put their necks on the line to make it happen. Indeed, if you look at the signers of the Declaration, most ended up dead by the Revolution, impovrished, or both.
Indeed, without the American experience, there is little chance that the ideals of the Revolution (American or French) would have come when they did.
The French King did a strange thing in backing the colonies against another King -- he basically set his nation up for its own bloodbath. Yet it still took way over 100 years (1918) for the majority of the royal houses of Europe to give way to Democracy.

Thats cuz they speak other languages.

If I was having a conversation in Spanish with a Spanish guy in Spain...then YES, I would refer to his country as Espana.........BUT, since we are having a convo about America with Americans, you will refer to America as America.

*cough*
not everyone here is american...
yes I do know I wasn't invited in here :\

I'm not proud to be American, this is because I'm British, yay for me 'n' such...

I never understood the point of pride in the lump of rock you were born on... personally I'm not proud of my nation anyway, too much corruption, too much racism, too much crime... can't be proud of any society that lets such things exist so much.

I had to put somewhat, as there are parts I am proud of to no end, and parts that I hate.

I am damn proud of the democratic system the United States set up. The US is the true father of modern democracy (although it did exist far earlier, they revolutionized and popularized it) and had never ceased being a democratic nation. I am also proud of the many freedoms we enjoy, including freedom of press, speech, religion, and all that.

I don't like a lot of things, some past, some present. I hate how I live on land stolen from it's rightful owners, the Native Americans. I HIGHLY dislike the Redaphobia and huge capitalist thing, being a commie. I also have to disagree with US imperialism, both past and present, including Spanish-American War aqcuistions like Cuba and Phillipines (which we did free later, but I'm still not proud of it) and current imperialist conquests like Iraq. Last, I don't approve of the fact that we have to say stuff like "under God" in the pledge of alligence, as I'm an athiest. But that's not too big a deal. I can skip it.

Obviously, present is more important than past, as if you were to judge on the past every country would be evil. But I must still remember it, and I think most of them apply today. I am still unsure if I will move out when I get out of college or stay in the US. I may stay and go to Arizona, or perhaps leave and live in Cuba, which will hopefully still be commie but more democratic, or if not, perhaps Austrailia or France (or quite possibly Vietnam, depending on the conditions there).


I bet you're all sitting there thinking "man, this guy has got some really long-winded posts, don't he?" :D

Despite all the bullshit Bush has done lately it does still represent freedom and affluence. Given the state of the majority of the world's people there isn't a place to be that can be better than America.

we have freedom and affluence in england... we also have less guns over here

we have freedom and affluence in england... we also have less guns over here

Yet amazingly, many Brits complain when Margret Thatcher got them TO that affluent stage. :D

BTW: Guns are not bad.

I had to put somewhat, as there are parts I am proud of to no end, and parts that I hate.

I am damn proud of the democratic system the United States set up. The US is the true father of modern democracy (although it did exist far earlier, they revolutionized and popularized it) and had never ceased being a democratic nation. I am also proud of the many freedoms we enjoy, including freedom of press, speech, religion, and all that.

I don't like a lot of things, some past, some present. I hate how I live on land stolen from it's rightful owners, the Native Americans. I HIGHLY dislike the Redaphobia and huge capitalist thing, being a commie. I also have to disagree with US imperialism, both past and present, including Spanish-American War aqcuistions like Cuba and Phillipines (which we did free later, but I'm still not proud of it) and current imperialist conquests like Iraq. Last, I don't approve of the fact that we have to say stuff like "under God" in the pledge of alligence, as I'm an athiest. But that's not too big a deal. I can skip it.

Obviously, present is more important than past, as if you were to judge on the past every country would be evil. But I must still remember it, and I think most of them apply today. I am still unsure if I will move out when I get out of college or stay in the US. I may stay and go to Arizona, or perhaps leave and live in Cuba, which will hopefully still be commie but more democratic, or if not, perhaps Austrailia or France (or quite possibly Vietnam, depending on the conditions there).


I bet you're all sitting there thinking "man, this guy has got some really long-winded posts, don't he?" :D
How ironic. My girlfriend in France just told me she hates France and might be moving to the US.

How ironic. My girlfriend in France just told me she hates France and might be moving to the US.
That's okay. People are allowed to have bad taste. :p

I'm glad to be an American, but I'm dissapointed in my government. It's all filled with four different maniacs:

1. Democrats: Politicians who are against Republicans but have very little idea of what to do.
2. Republicans: Politicians who seem to want everything that's bad for America and they get it all passed.
3. Independents: Politicians who count as a third party but practically have nothing to say and have no say in anything.
4. Today's Politicians In General: All politicians today do is address the problems of America but they don't do anything to solve them. And when they do, there's a ton of complaining that goes on and how alternatives might have been better or simply just as good.

I don't consider Canada a part of America at all! I am Canadian and wouldn't live in america for any amount of money. Not that I hate America or anything like that, It's just that I love my country and love being Canadian and would be quite happy to live out my life here! I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but as bad as our Prime Minister is, I would take him any day over George Bush!

How ironic. My girlfriend in France just told me she hates France and might be moving to the US.

A girlfriend in France? Strange, you strike me as the "Freedom Fries" sort, so I'm rather surprised you'd even talk to anyone even remotely connected with France.

If the US hates France so much then why not give the Statue of Liberty back? It came from the french! The ultimate symbol of freedom! By the way, anyone in the US who calls french fries 'freedom fries' just makes themselves look stupid. It's just a food and your not making a point. Nobody cares! especially the french!

By the way, anyone in the US who calls french fries 'freedom fries' just makes themselves look stupid. It's just a food and your not making a point. Nobody cares! especially the french!

Well spoken. I can't understand what kind of message (If any) would be sent by renaming food. Freedom Fries..... That just doesn't sound right.

A girlfriend in France? Strange, you strike me as the "Freedom Fries" sort, so I'm rather surprised you'd even talk to anyone even remotely connected with France.
You'd be surprised. I have actually have 3 girlfriends. Two in Arizona and one in France who might possibly be moving to Cali. One's a nurse, another is hostess at a restaurant, and the third one is a chemical engineer.
It would be 4 is you count that California girl that I've been talking to also.
Or 5 if you include that girl from Latvia, but I haven't talked to her in a while so she doesn't really count.
And they know about each other too. And they're cool with it. :) :) :)

i'm ashamed to be american. i love what we're supposed to stand for, but it seems that in the last 6 years, all we've stood for is the opposite of what we're supposed to. Ever hear of the "Patriot" Act? or how about domestic spying?

There's these great things that we're supposed to have in this country, known as CIVIL RIGHTS. like the right to free speech, the right to be whatever religion you want...etc. But now, unless you are white, christian or jewish (because not even the most extreme america lovers would tolerate someone that hates jews...and i'm jewish so i have every right to say this) and middle class or upper class, then you arent equal in this country. If you're black and there's a in your neighborhood, you're the first one questioned. If you're Muslim, you can be arrested and thrown in jail with out being charged, while the government claims your a terrorist and that they're just compiling evidence. So much for "All men are created equal," huh?

To all that made this country what it is today:
:upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:

They're french fries dammit.

There's no such thing as freedom fries.

Well spoken. I can't understand what kind of message (If any) would be sent by renaming food. Freedom Fries..... That just doesn't sound right.
what's next after that? Changing French toast to Freedom toast?

If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

If you left the country, I wouldn't think you would need to tell people that you were an American. Even if you were really a Canuck.

If you left the country, I wouldn't think you would need to tell people that you were an American. Even if you were really a Canuck.

very good point

i'm ashamed to be american. i love what we're supposed to stand for, but it seems that in the last 6 years, all we've stood for is the opposite of what we're supposed to. Ever hear of the "Patriot" Act? or how about domestic spying?

There's these great things that we're supposed to have in this country, known as CIVIL RIGHTS. like the right to free speech, the right to be whatever religion you want...etc. But now, unless you are white, christian or jewish (because not even the most extreme america lovers would tolerate someone that hates jews...and i'm jewish so i have every right to say this) and middle class or upper class, then you arent equal in this country. If you're black and there's a in your neighborhood, you're the first one questioned. If you're Muslim, you can be arrested and thrown in jail with out being charged, while the government claims your a terrorist and that they're just compiling evidence. So much for "All men are created equal," huh?

To all that made this country what it is today:
:upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours: :upyours:

Glad to see someone who thinks this way also. Anyway, here are some quotes by Benjamin Franklin himself people who support Bush should think about:

They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety

There was never a good war, or a bad peace.

Where liberty is, there is my country.

Don't believe me? Click: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benjamin_franklin.html

what's next after that? Changing French toast to Freedom toast?

Heheheheee. Freedom Toast. Sounds more like a joke than a message. It just sounds funny is all. Good point though.

If the US hates France so much then why not give the Statue of Liberty back? It came from the french! The ultimate symbol of freedom! By the way, anyone in the US who calls french fries 'freedom fries' just makes themselves look stupid. It's just a food and your not making a point. Nobody cares! especially the french!

Not to mention that the origin of French Fries is clearly in doubt, and the Belgians seem to have the strongest claim to the invention of the French Fry.

J.R. Simplot, of Boise, Idaho, invented the frozen french fry. Ore-Ida is a JR Simplot brand.

Not to mention that the origin of French Fries is clearly in doubt, and the Belgians seem to have the strongest claim to the invention of the French Fry.

J.R. Simplot, of Boise, Idaho, invented the frozen french fry. Ore-Ida is a JR Simplot brand.
No they really are French fries. The Belgian ones are a lot thicker.

Errinundera']The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

my l33t contry wtflazerpawnzor jor n00b 4meric4 pew pew pew:sniper:

No they really are French fries. The Belgian ones are a lot thicker.

<sigh>

The French call fried potatoes "pomme frites" or literally, fried potatoes.

Size or thickness is irrelevant. The Belgians claim to have invented the french fried potato sliced long and in the manner we see them today.

Proper British chips are thick and long and served with malt vinegar and catsup.

It is now terribly common to hear in Europe the term, "American fries" when referring to what we call "french fries."

The small, thin french fry was made wildly popular in the United States by Ray Kroc the founder of McDonalds.

But fries in their current iteration are decidedly NOT French, and with Belgium and Spain the leading claimants to the invention of fries, the whole "freedom fry" nonsense seems exactly that. Nonsense.

I am proud that America still resists Socialism, and we still remain a capitalist nation. If you work hard here and you can earn your fortune. The American Dream is still very much alive. The taint of socialism increases every year, however.

The corruption of our political parties is highly disturbing, but the sad thing is that even our corrupt government is more efficient, just, and less-corrupt than most others.

Also, I am proud to be part of a group of pioneers who tamed a rugged land and forged the mightiest nation in the world. My hat is off to the brave settlers who left society and headed west into the unknown.

I am proud that I did not eat a piece of cheesecake after dinner, even though it had chocolate chips in it.

I am also proud that I can claim citizenship in more than one country. I rule.

Also, I am proud to be part of a group of pioneers who tamed a rugged land and forged the mightiest nation in the world. My hat is off to the brave settlers who left society and headed west into the unknown.

that really makes me sick.

Taming a rugged land? You mean exploiting the nature and killing off the people already living there.



Do you even know why the midwest became a dustbowl in the frist way?
Couse the "brave" settlers used all the water. The settlers where there couse they where poor and the state gave them free land so that somone would live there in the first place. Your USA`s history is not old but is still one of the most bloodiest and ugliest in the world. :upyours: buddy

that really makes me sick.

Taming a rugged land? You mean exploiting the nature and killing off the people already living there.



Do you even know why the midwest became a dustbowl in the frist way?
Couse the "brave" settlers used all the water. The settlers where there couse they where poor and the state gave them free land so that somone would live there in the first place. Your USA`s history is not old but is still one of the most bloodiest and ugliest in the world. :upyours: buddy


ummm no unlike Iceland and other area's we Americans try to actually cooexist and like nature...note national parks and land set asides in almost every community and wayyyy too many other things to mention ..including tree huggers...

The dust bowl is what happens when farmers and the government do not follow the advice of those that know better about soil conditions the proper crops the right rotation of those crops and where to leave forrest as wind breaks on a great plain and a coincidence of natural factors .

Nothing to do with drinking or using all the water...I thought the schools in europe were fairly good ..what happened ?

And I know Norwegians just plopped down out of the sky on Norway..no blood or settlement or war or history. BTW ask someone in Iceland what happened to their trees.... Glass house...no stones .


Bwahahahaahaha

In the 9th century Norway consisted of a number of petty kingdoms. According to tradition, Harald Fairhair gathered the small kingdoms into one and in 872 with the battle of Hafrsfjord, he became the first king of a united Norway.

The Viking age (8th to 11th centuries) was one of national unification and expansion. The Norwegians settled on Iceland, the Faroe Islands, Greenland and parts of the British Islands and attempted to settle at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada (it is the Vinland of The Saga of Eric the Red). Norwegians founded the modern day Irish cities of Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Waterford and captured the Anglo-Saxon city of Eoforwic renaming it Jorvik, today known as York. The Norwegian Rollo invaded and was ceded Normandy by the West Frankish king Charles the Simple in 911. Rollo's great-great-great-grandson William the Conqueror successfully invaded and conquered England in 1066. Etc.


Hmmm killing and coquering...NOT Norway....ohhhhhh no.............the nice peace loving VIKINGS...they never would hurt a wittle fly....:D :D :D :D


You guys crack me up .

that really makes me sick.

Taming a rugged land? You mean exploiting the nature and killing off the people already living there.



Do you even know why the midwest became a dustbowl in the frist way?
Couse the "brave" settlers used all the water. The settlers where there couse they where poor and the state gave them free land so that somone would live there in the first place. Your USA`s history is not old but is still one of the most bloodiest and ugliest in the world. :upyours: buddy

Now wait a minute.

I will agree with you that the United States has more than it's fair share of bloody and bad history, but we are not alone in our bad behavior. The human race as a rule has a bloody and violent history.

Europe's hands are not pristine, sir, and I am by no means anti-European. The history of the human race is replete with bad behavior, tragedy and examples of foolishness. The triggers for World War One and World War Two are almost strictly due to political instability in Russo-European relations. Certainly in WWII, Japan would not have entered on the Axis side if it were not for some really awful diplomacy on the part of the United States and the loss of face in the world Japan endured. Heck, we almost taunted them into war.

The US in that time period (especially between the Great War and WWII) was isolationist.

The Dustbowl was created due to poor farming techniques (overfarming) and a drought, not excessive water use. It occurred in the US Great Plains and Canada. From 1934 to 1939, great black dust storms stripped off the crucial layer of topsoil and blew it out to the Atlantic Ocean. Could the Dustbowl been prevented? Yes. But we sealed our fate by pressing the land harder than it should have been pressed, and the killing off of all the great Buffalo herds kept the land from recovering as the major source of natural fertilization had been hunted out of existence in the late 1800's.

Yes, we have a bad and bloody history...but so does your nation.

...which I don't argue. My quibble is that one there became a United States of America it became incorrect to speak of the whole landmass as America.
Sadly I'm at work and can not respond in full to your post, but I think we've hit the core of the matter.

You see, your opinion above is what pisses us off about the usage of America as only applying to the citizens of the US. I'm glad you concede the point that America is the name of the continent, or at least the origina name, but it is the pinnacle of smugness to suggest that the continent has to change name if a country names itself after it.

And it is a matter of education too, since we are taught that America is one continent, divided in two subcontinents. That's why Bolivar is known as "El libertador de America" and there's a "Despertador americano," why theres was a "Congreso Americano" in Angostura and why there is a "Libertadores de America" soccer cup.

And you've gone to the dictionary too, where you've seen how it is correct to refer as American to someone from either North or South America, your point now being that American is more used to refer to a citizen of the USA. And yes, it is, and yes, it would be confusing if you just answered America to someone who asks where you're from. That's undeniable. That doesn't mean that the second meaning is wrong or that there are no context where it would be wrong to use it. Otherwise the dictionary wouldn't record it.

Now, if you prefer not to use it and it's your opinion that it should be wrong, well, that's your opinion, but that doesn't make it wrong.

By the way, anyone in the US who calls french fries 'freedom fries' just makes themselves look stupid.

That was the entire point of my statement. By saying he struck me as the "Freedom Fries" sort, I was implying he struck me as the stereotypically blindly nationalist sort who irrationally hate the French just for being French. And I meant the whole thing in jest more than anything else.

It's funny how even the mention of the term "Freedom Fries" made several people go off on a tangent, as though someone had said that they use that term.

I live in England and I LOVE America. I've been on holiday there twice when I was a child and it is my first choice for a holiday destination when I save enough money!!

AMERICA IS GREAT!! (Great Britain is greater! :p )

p.s. Without America there would be no FAMILY GUY, or AMERICAN DAD!

Errinundera']The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany


Wtf does this mean?? We dont give our people enough free cheese??

I live in England and I LOVE America. I've been on holiday there twice when I was a child and it is my first choice for a holiday destination when I save enough money!!

AMERICA IS GREAT!! (Great Britain is greater! :p )

p.s. Without America there would be no FAMILY GUY, or AMERICAN DAD!


I sometimes wish our politicians acted a more like european parliment intellectuals (nothing to do with intelligence). American politicians are more political rather than idealogical (whatever idealogy that may be) when they campaign and speak on the floor of the senate/house (house does an ok job though).

I sometimes wish our politicians acted a more like european parliment intellectuals (nothing to do with intelligence). American politicians are more political rather than idealogical (whatever idealogy that may be) when they campaign and speak on the floor of the senate/house (house does an ok job though).

Actually I think our lot in the House of Commons are pretty much the same. At least in the US your president is allowed a maximum of only two terms in office (subject to votes of course). Here we've got to put up with the same guy if he wins a THIRD time! :headbang:

p.s. America has NASA! (sweet)

Actually I think our lot in the House of Commons are pretty much the same. At least in the US your president is allowed a maximum of only two terms in office (subject to votes of course). Here we've got to put up with the same guy if he wins a THIRD time! :headbang:

p.s. America has NASA! (sweet)
But you have ESA

I sometimes wish our politicians acted a more like european parliment intellectuals (nothing to do with intelligence). American politicians are more political rather than idealogical (whatever idealogy that may be) when they campaign and speak on the floor of the senate/house (house does an ok job though).
actually they are very ideological when they are campaigning and these days, it spills over into the Congress cause the word compromise has become a dirty word in politics. But sometimes you get people who ideologize on the campaign trail and then do politicing once they are in office.
That's the problem with the current immigration debate. The two mainsides are so polarized that it is ripping America apart. They are so entrenched that they talk past each other without hearing what the other side has to say. The only way their going to resolve the immigration problem is through compromise. Otherwise its only going to get worse. That means the pro immigrants have to give up something and the anti immigrants have to give up something.

I live in England and I LOVE America. I've been on holiday there twice when I was a child and it is my first choice for a holiday destination when I save enough money!!

AMERICA IS GREAT!! (Great Britain is greater! :p )

p.s. Without America there would be no FAMILY GUY, or AMERICAN DAD!
How low have we sunk that these two shows are an example of artistic merit.

what is "American Dad"? I've never heard of that one.

I am embarrassed to live in this country because of Bush and his cohorts creating wars based on lies and ruining foreign relation. I've never considered myself an American; the world would be better off it all the classification were removed. So, instead of people refering to themselves as American, Japanese, gay, straight, black, white, etc, we should just refer to ourselves as Humans.

How low have we sunk that these two shows are an example of artistic merit.

Those cartoons carry a fairly powerful message disguised within the entertainment. This trend started with the Simpsons. Where authority is questioned routinely, and American social mores and political dysfunctionality are raked over the coals.

All you need is a talking dog and a American football headed, evil baby to make the comments and it goes over most people's heads.

American Dad makes light of US political attitudes and the fight between liberals and conservatives almost constantly.

The message is disguised in a palatable coating.

Is that art? Animated TV shows have certainly done a better job of making people think than the drivel called "reality" tv. It might not be art, but for the most part it does a nice job of sending up US society in a country where in some states if I say a single bad thing about Bush, I would get my happy, gay ass kicked.

The Warner Cartoons served much the same purpose in the early decades of the 20th century.

Those cartoons carry a fairly powerful message disguised within the entertainment. This trend started with the Simpsons. Where authority is questioned routinely, and American social mores and political dysfunctionality are raked over the coals.

All you need is a talking dog and a American football headed, evil baby to make the comments and it goes over most people's heads.

American Dad makes light of US political attitudes and the fight between liberals and conservatives almost constantly.

The message is disguised in a palatable coating.

Is that art? Animated TV shows have certainly done a better job of making people think than the drivel called "reality" tv. It might not be art, but for the most part it does a nice job of sending up US society in a country where in some states if I say a single bad thing about Bush, I would get my happy, gay ass kicked.

The Warner Cartoons served much the same purpose in the early decades of the 20th century.

And they are VERY VERY funny!!!

Although there are many things about my country I find distasteful, on the whole, I am proud to be a citizen of the U.S.A.

that really makes me sick.

Taming a rugged land? You mean exploiting the nature and killing off the people already living there.

Do you even know why the midwest became a dustbowl in the frist way?
Couse the "brave" settlers used all the water. The settlers where there couse they where poor and the state gave them free land so that somone would live there in the first place. Your USA`s history is not old but is still one of the most bloodiest and ugliest in the world. :upyours: buddy

Given the tremendous number of Scandinavians that settled the midwest, I find this damn funny!

As for bloody, I think you might want to hide those longships, eh? :rolleyes:

Actually I think our lot in the House of Commons are pretty much the same. At least in the US your president is allowed a maximum of only two terms in office (subject to votes of course). Here we've got to put up with the same guy if he wins a THIRD time! :headbang:

p.s. America has NASA! (sweet)


Well i mean on the basis of the political culture... for example British Parliment members write books and are political anaylist while doing other stuff. In america all the politician in the senate or house does is be a senator or member of the house. They leave it to analist and the media to bring thier message to the american people and the issues and laws proposed are not clearly presented to the american people from the "horeses mouth"

actually they are very ideological when they are campaigning and these days, it spills over into the Congress cause the word compromise has become a dirty word in politics. But sometimes you get people who ideologize on the campaign trail and then do politicing once they are in office.
That's the problem with the current immigration debate. The two mainsides are so polarized that it is ripping America apart. They are so entrenched that they talk past each other without hearing what the other side has to say. The only way their going to resolve the immigration problem is through compromise. Otherwise its only going to get worse. That means the pro immigrants have to give up something and the anti immigrants have to give up something.


Devision is a good thing on demestic policy. While i hope my side wins but debate in general over most issues is what makes democracy great. Sometimes though in the middle of war devision is viewed as a weakness to our enemies: the problem of a free society with a media craze during a war.

The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

Good old Deutschland is number 20?!? We're behind the >gasp, moan< Americans?!? God, that's pitiful...

Sadly I'm at work and can not respond in full to your post, but I think we've hit the core of the matter.

Fair enough. I'm jealous... I can't hit NS from work.

You see, your opinion above is what pisses us off about the usage of America as only applying to the citizens of the US. I'm glad you concede the point that America is the name of the continent, or at least the origina name, but it is the pinnacle of smugness to suggest that the continent has to change name if a country names itself after it.

Yep. And you are welcome. :D
As you point out, America isn't the original name for it either -- there simply wasn't one. If you renamed a fusion of Brazil, Chile and Argentina to "The Grand Union of South America" I would be just as annoyed, BTW. You simply can't refer to a country and a continent's denizens as the same thing.

And it is a matter of education too, since we are taught that America is one continent, divided in two subcontinents.

At least we agree on it being a matter of education.

That's why Bolivar is known as "El libertador de America" and there's a "Despertador americano," why theres was a "Congreso Americano" in Angostura and why there is a "Libertadores de America" soccer cup.

And you've gone to the dictionary too, where you've seen how it is correct to refer as American to someone from either North or South America, your point now being that American is more used to refer to a citizen of the USA.

On the 4th choice, sure. And I disagree with it. The same way that a Kwanzaa is a divisible unit of Angolan currency, not a "holiday".

And yes, it is, and yes, it would be confusing if you just answered America to someone who asks where you're from. That's undeniable. That doesn't mean that the second meaning is wrong or that there are no context where it would be wrong to use it. Otherwise the dictionary wouldn't record it.

Yeesh. We've debated this for pages now, so I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

Now, if you prefer not to use it and it's your opinion that it should be wrong, well, that's your opinion, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Nope. And debating anything on the 'Net never solved anything either. :)

Likewise, I'm happy you now agree that someone with a differing viewpoint is not ignorant.

Later on,
Mark

The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

Good old Deutschland is number 20?!? We're behind the >gasp, moan< Americans?!? God, that's pitiful...

PSST! It gets worse... you're selling Budweiser at the Cup!!

I don't support most of the policies of the US government.
I don't like what has become of American people.
I don't like how centralized our government has become.

But with God as my witness, I love this ground, this state, this country, and the fact that I can disagree with and have a say in our proud, free, democratic polity.

God bless the United States of America! :)

The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

Good old Deutschland is number 20?!? We're behind the >gasp, moan< Americans?!? God, that's pitiful...

Well the Human Devlopment Index is based according to its report ( http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf )
on 3 major factors. The first is Health Expectancy at Birth, the second is the gross literacy rate (which thier is no data for some of the top countries) combined with the Gross enrollment rate in primary secondary and tertiary schools. The last factor is the standard of living based on gdp per capita in perchasing power.

The only part of the data i could contest is the second factor of education in many nations. For example in the USA Home Schooling is fairly common and on the rise. This factor of rigorouse home schooling is not a factor in the HDI.

Plus the life expectancies are really close.... check out the actual data ( http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf ). this is the full chart from above with actual data.. not that far off from each other.

LOL on further review thier really is no major diffrence between each on HDI calculation

l

You simply can't refer to a country and a continent's denizens as the same thing.
Erm... why?

On the 4th choice, sure. And I disagree with it. The same way that a Kwanzaa is a divisible unit of Angolan currency, not a "holiday".
Depends on the dictionary. Merriam-Webster has "citizen of the United States of America" in third, after "American Indian of North or South America" and "a native or inhabitant of North or South America."

I don't know why you think words should have only one meaning. That's not good for someone who speaks a language in which the word "set" has dozens of meanings and even the word "mean" can mean four or five different things.

Nope. And debating anything on the 'Net never solved anything either. :)
But it helps to pass the time.

Likewise, I'm happy you now agree that someone with a differing viewpoint is not ignorant.
It is not being in dissagreement that's the demonstration of ignorance, it's how you get there. For example in the post previous to this one you say something like (and I'm paraphrasing): "the British called their colonies American colonies" and I have to think "Geez! What do you think the Spanish called theirs? The Martian colonies? The Keep-on-Rockin' Expedition?" Of course not, they called them "American colonies." When somebody left for the colonies they even used the expression "hacer la America" (to make America).

I suppose this is something you didn't know, perhaps because it wasn't taught to you, but you still didn't know it. You were therefore ignorant of this fact which also happens to be central to our discussion. On the other hand, you could just be wilfully disregarding it or being contemptuous. Since ignorance is the natural state of the human being (another word with more than one meaning), I prefer to believe it is this and not malevolence.

I'm ignorant on many subjects, but I try not to hold too hard to the opinions I may have on that matter. When I do know about the subject, however... :) yup, I'm an arrogant asshole.

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.
I am proud to be an American, I am not sure what that has to do with being embarrassed by the behavior of others...I am not sure how to be embarrassed by the behavior others actually as I am not responsible for them.

I am however ashamed of people like you.

The United Nations publishes a thing called the Human Development Index. It is based on a formula looking at educational attainment, health and wealth. In 2005 these were the top 20 nations. There are only 3 countries outside Europe and America. The US rates as tenth.

1. Norway
2, Iceland
3. Australia
4. Luxembourg
5. Canada
6. Sweden
7. Switzerland
8. Ireland
9. Belgium
10. United States
11. Japan
12. Netherlands
13. Finland
14. Denmark
15. United Kingdom
16. France
17. Austria
18. Italy
19. New Zealand
20. Germany

Good old Deutschland is number 20?!? We're behind the >gasp, moan< Americans?!? God, that's pitiful...
worthy of own thread, perhaps?:mp5:

Also, I am proud to be part of a group of pioneers who tamed a rugged land and forged the mightiest nation in the world. My hat is off to the brave settlers who left society and headed west into the unknown.
Let's not romanticize the era of Manifest Destiny any more than we have to, hmm?

The same way that a Kwanzaa is a divisible unit of Angolan currency, not a "holiday".


The holiday of Kwanzaa was created by Dr. Maulana Karenga in 1966, during the period of US history in which African Americans were involved in struggles for their civil rights. This was the period of Martin Luther King, the Civil Rights movement, and Black Power.

The fact that the word is used in two forms changes nothing, there are hundreds, thousands of words with two meanings especially Since Kwanzaa is an American Holiday, it doesnt matter what it means in Angola.

Since Kwanzaa is Swahili for Fruit, Swahili being the common language associated with Africa in the United States by the 60's Black Power movement, and also not being a Language spoken in Angola you need to go to the nations of Tanzania(Official Language), Kenya(Official Language), Uganda(National Common Dialect), Democratic Republic of Congo(One of Four spoken Languages Officially), Rwanda(National Common Dialect), Burundi(Etiquette -Business Language), Somalia( A large portion of populace as common dialect),Mozambique(A large portion of populace as common dialect), and Ethiopia(Urban Dialect, Educated Speakers).

Go to those countries and explain that what they call fruit is wrong because Angola uses that word to mean curreny....Of course since the mosty common language in Angola besides Bantu is Portuguese-I doubt you will command much respect with your declaration.

Kwanzaa is the name of an American Holiday(English)
It is the name of fresh fruit in over half dozen nations(Swahili)
It is also the word for currency in Angola(Bantu)

Next time instead of just using google try actually reading.

Let's not romanticize the era of Manifest Destiny any more than we have to, hmm?


Aye....conquest, murder, and theft glofified. US history in a nutshell.

Also, to the guy you quoted, you didn't yourself go into the wilderness, and someone else's land, build your own cabin, kill the natives, and build a life for yourself. So you have no right to the pride of those accomplishments. I'm Greek, but I can't claim to be proud of Socraties's ideas, because I didn't come up with them.

The holiday of Kwanzaa was created by Dr. Maulana Karenga in 1966, during the period of US history in which African Americans were involved in struggles for their civil rights. This was the period of Martin Luther King, the Civil Rights movement, and Black Power.

The fact that the word is used in two forms changes nothing, there are hundreds, thousands of words with two meanings especially Since Kwanzaa is an American Holiday, it doesnt matter what it means in Angola.

Since Kwanzaa is Swahili for Fruit, Swahili being the common language associated with Africa in the United States by the 60's Black Power movement, and also not being a Language spoken in Angola you need to go to the nations of Tanzania(Official Language), Kenya(Official Language), Uganda(National Common Dialect), Democratic Republic of Congo(One of Four spoken Languages Officially), Rwanda(National Common Dialect), Burundi(Etiquette -Business Language), Somalia( A large portion of populace as common dialect),Mozambique(A large portion of populace as common dialect), and Ethiopia(Urban Dialect, Educated Speakers).

Go to those countries and explain that what they call fruit is wrong because Angola uses that word to mean curreny....Of course since the mosty common language in Angola besides Bantu is Portuguese-I doubt you will command much respect with your declaration.

Kwanzaa is the name of an American Holiday(English)
It is the name of fresh fruit in over half dozen nations(Swahili)
It is also the word for currency in Angola(Bantu)

Next time instead of just using google try actually reading.

It's a black christmas with jewish overtones. My workmate from Gabon laughs at it. It is NOT an African holiday.

Oh, I'm not saying that words cannot have multiple meanings. However, Kwanzaa is a BS holiday, the same as Columbus Day, Cinco de Mayo or Martin Luther King Day-- all of them "minority" holidays that divide, not unite people and are NOT celebrated in their native lands!!!

(NB: I have an especial dislike of MLK day, since he was not a President. Why does he get a day and so many do not? Why don't Lincoln and Washington have their own days anymore? Heck, why not a day for the Apollo 11 crew? or Eisenhower?) The list is endless.

Note: I have no trouble with REAL holidays. Easter, Mardi Gras, Chinese New Year, Chanukah, Thanksgiving, St. Patrick's Day, WHATEVER, fine. There's a cultural/religious reason to celebrate it.

Tell me where in Spain or Italy they celebrate Columbus Day? Or that Cinco de Mayo is not bigger in the US than in Mexico? :rolleyes:

PS: Google? Smeg off. The reason why I brought up Kwanza is because when I first heard of it (circa 1994) I looked it up in my 1989 Webster's dictionary. And that was the definition. :D

Cinco de Mayo is not a BS holiday, just a regional celebration in Mexico.

I will grant you the US will do just about anything to set another holiday to party on, but this one is legitimate.

The holiday of Cinco De Mayo, The 5th Of May, commemorates the victory of the Mexican militia over the French army at The Battle Of Puebla in 1862. It is primarily a regional holiday celebrated in the Mexican state capital city of Puebla and throughout the state of Puebla, with some recognition in other parts of the Mexico, and especially in U.S. cities with a significant Mexican population. It is not, as many people think, Mexico's Independence Day, which is actually September 16.

Im a proud member of Americas armed forces and no matter were i go I will admit that I am a citizen of this country.
Good for you on both counts.

I wonder how many of those that responded <<God bless the U.S.A.!>> actually believe in God.

Cinco de Mayo is not a BS holiday, just a regional celebration in Mexico.

I will grant you the US will do just about anything to set another holiday to party on, but this one is legitimate.

The holiday of Cinco De Mayo, The 5th Of May, commemorates the victory of the Mexican militia over the French army at The Battle Of Puebla in 1862. It is primarily a regional holiday celebrated in the Mexican state capital city of Puebla and throughout the state of Puebla, with some recognition in other parts of the Mexico, and especially in U.S. cities with a significant Mexican population. It is not, as many people think, Mexico's Independence Day, which is actually September 16.

That's about the size of it... so that makes it important in the US for other than marketing purposes? ;)

So: yes, it's a holiday. In mexico. But in the US? It's marketing.

(Check this out: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7737611/from/RL.2/)

I am proud to be an American, proud to be an Oklahoman, proud to be a natural blonde, proud to be of Irish decent, I am proud to be a woman.........

I have pride damn it. it's not supposed to be rational.


RIGHT ON! except im a guy, and i have light brown hair, and im Californian living in korea... but i am an american! and i have pride in my country

Of course its supposed to be rational. Reason is the absolute of civilization.
And as a reasonable person, I cannot be proud of the actions of people that are either dead or in another time zone, but either way not influenced in the slightest by myself. The fact that Im assosiated with them is the unfortuanate result of the need to classify and categorize for convenience.

p.s.: I was born in the US, but would never admit it to anyone if I can get away with it.

Im ashamed of my once great country. I was born in the Netherlands, moved here, and just recently attained citizenship. I have lived here for 10 years, and I can't stand it now. I'm moving back as soon as possible.

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.
You can be embarrased by most Americans and still be proud to be an American.

I am not American, I find Bush's policies and most of the GOP's policies to be terribly disagreeable with my own views, most of American foreign policy troubles me.. , etc... but I would still be proud to be an American if I were in fact an American. The USA is still a beacon of light on this planet, especially to the millions of people all over the world that immigrate to the states.

I am not American, I find Bush's policies and most of the GOP's policies to be terribly disagreeable with my own views, most of American foreign policy troubles me.. , etc... but I would still be proud to be an American if I were in fact an American. The USA is still a beacon of light on this planet, especially to the millions of people all over the world that immigrate to the states.

But to 40,000 dead Salvadorians, 30,000 dead Chileans, 4 million dead southeast Asians, countless dead Nicuagians, millions of dead, maimed, starving, and impoverished across the third world.......America is executioner, tormenter, and jailer.

Proud not to be.

But to 40,000 dead Salvadorians, 30,000 dead Chileans, 4 million dead southeast Asians, countless dead Nicuagians, millions of dead, maimed, starving, and impoverished across the third world.......America is executioner, tormenter, and jailer.
Indeed they are.
I hope this doesn't sound like I am an apologist for atrocity, but I'm sure the locals have done much worse than those figures at some point in their history. Make no mistake. I find that American amoral foreign policy, the kind that was defended by Kissinger and now by neoconservatives, is wrong and highley objectionable. Despite all this. I still feel that America has alot to be proud of.

To me a Neo Con is someone who thinks that a world that consist of only " democracy " Is a world without war...I hear " No Democracy ever declared WAR ETC. Ad nauseam ..etc.
OK....


I sit back and think ...( no joints involved ) ....( different story ) .....


I says to myself....I believe in democracy.....ok ? ....ummm and when a whole group ...or counntry say...


YOU MUST DIE INFIDEL..or even ASSHOLE.....ummmm...thats not a good thing right ?

After all just because a WHOLE GROUP OF ASSHOLES think you should die...

Well...I says to meself...Ummmmm what if they are like wrong...and besides fuck them I aint ready yet ?

What if MY idea of ASSHOLE is different ...?


Hmmmm....do you say ,,, ?? Well it meets the international standards so lets do it ...( cable rights cost 30 + ..call 1 -8000 fckrslfifyrlcky ?


So we gets to a REPUBLIC...with a constitution and rights that are guaranteed ...who cares if I can spell ....its the point you say ????


Ok hers the point ..


The US has a constitution

We all read it ....well we are supposed to...


BUt then again I was always told if I pulled my pud I would go blind....


at any rate ...


Slavery was found to be CONSTITUTIONAL.
So was SEGRAGATION.
So was taking citizens of Japanese ancestors and taking away their property and putting them in concentration camps...

OK so we did not make lamp shades out of their skin or soap from their bones or just throw them in ovens and use them for fertlizer...The germans kind of ..well under Hitler anyway ..beat us to it ..


The bottom line is ..we have a constitution and a second ammendment...


But if a bunch of us want to be assholes and no one cares...

Well you see what can happen..

NO shit ..just look around..google stuff..


BUT

Do us all a favor ...when you finally decide you give a shit ..

VOTE .

the alternative is a gun .

Indeed they are.
I hope this doesn't sound like I am an apologist for atrocity, but I'm sure the locals have done much worse than those figures at some point in their history. Make no mistake. I find that American amoral foreign policy, the kind that was defended by Kissinger and now by neoconservatives, is wrong and highley objectionable. Despite all this. I still feel that America has alot to be proud of.

They do. But let me put it this way. I'm a rich guy, and I donate hundreds of thousands each year to charity. I built my own fortuine from the ground up. I'm in great shape, and I have a nice family. I have alot to be proud of. But, I'm been kidnapping, raping, and killing children on the side the whole time. I get caught, I fry. No "but he accomplished so much good" "he help such-and-such" "he was nice to his dog" No. It's "fry, you baby-fucking bastard."

Accomplishing things does not erase the blood on your hands. Especially if alot of your economic success (we're talking about America again here) comes from the death of other human beings.

So, while there is good, I just cannot be proud of a country that has, and continues to do, and has never atoned for or showed any remorse about, such evil.

All I ask is that you are proud enough to vote .

Am I proud to be an American? Fuck yes. Does that mean I always support American policies? No. Does that mean I will go to other countries and shove it in their face that they're American? No.

...but you're damn right that I'm proud to be an American.

All I ask is that you are proud enough to vote .
and also, do you care enough to vote. :cool:

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.

Being proud of your country is not the same as agreeing unilaterally with everything it does. Yes I am proud to be an American but I am ashamed of the actions of this current administration and some of the situations this nation has been involved in previously.

Nor do I think the vast majority of Americans are worth the skin they're made out of. But I am proud of the ideals this country was founded on and I am willing to fight anyone, including my own goverment or countrymen to defend those ideals.

I keep hearing:

"I don't agree with the current or past governments, but I'm proud of my country"

My question is: What exactly are you proud of?

If you're against the evil that the government has done, and that the people supported/let happen, what is it you are proud of?

Not the government (for those who are, this isn't directed at you)

You haven't met and don't 99.99999999999999999......9999% percent of the people

Is it the physical dirt?

I can see being proud of a plot of land you shaped and tended yourself, but a whole land mass, most of which you have never touched or saw?

Is it the prinicples? In that case, it's not really the country, but certain ideas (freedom, seperation of powers, democracy, justice) that you like. And might I add, the US is no longer the sole sewert of theose values (not since about 200 years ago, and even then not the sole stewerts), and falls woefully short on many on them, why still claim to be a proud American?


I just don't see the need to relate or identify yourself with a spacific country of origin. I define myself by what I think and do, I think of myself as part of a family, part of a group of friends, but not so much as a citizen of "my country." I think of the US the same way I think of any other nation, as an abstraction, as a group of people, but not nessicaily *mine*

I am, and always will be proud to be an American.

I am proud to be an American, just as I believe an English person is proud to English or a French peson is proud to be French.

However, I loathe the song the poll is refering to. Seriously, don't use initials in a song; it just sounds wrong.

well, my answers are...
I keep hearing:

"I don't agree with the current or past governments, but I'm proud of my country"

My question is: What exactly are you proud of? that the people can change this country with their votes. Granted there are other countries out there that are also democracies, but I was born and live in the US, so I am proud to be an American
If you're against the evil that the government has done, and that the people supported/let happen, what is it you are proud of?because, ultimately, while we can blame the person in charge (I.E. the President) the true responsiblity lies on the People.

Not the government (for those who are, this isn't directed at you)

You haven't met and don't 99.99999999999999999......9999% percent of the people

Is it the physical dirt?

I can see being proud of a plot of land you shaped and tended yourself, but a whole land mass, most of which you have never touched or saw?

Is it the prinicples? In that case, it's not really the country, but certain ideas (freedom, seperation of powers, democracy, justice) that you like. And might I add, the US is no longer the sole sewert of theose values (not since about 200 years ago, and even then not the sole stewerts), and falls woefully short on many on them, why still claim to be a proud American?It's the principals, the Ideals, the Dream that is America. Granted we are not perfect, but no country is. sure we fall short in many areas, but we still strive for perfection. Sure our Ideals may not match the rest of the world, but who's does. I'm Proud to be an American. Just like I expect a Japanese to be proud to be Japanese, or a Canadian to be Proud to be Canadian. if you are ashamed, then move. if your pride is only baised on the Unblemished record of any country, I challenge you to find one. and if or when you do, feel free to move there with my blessing.
I just don't see the need to relate or identify yourself with a spacific country of origin. I define myself by what I think and do, I think of myself as part of a family, part of a group of friends, but not so much as a citizen of "my country." I think of the US the same way I think of any other nation, as an abstraction, as a group of people, but not nessicaily *mine*noble sentiment, however, as long as a One-World government does not exsist. As long as you need papers and government forms to cross most international borders I ask you to allow me my pride and ideals in an abstract entity.

I'm proud to be from the U.S., and I voted with the first option but I see no reason why Divine Providence ought to rain down more in favour of one group of people than on another.

Damn you forum pollsters, editorialising what could've been a simple yes or no!
*shakes fist*

I mean, sure there are plenty of bad things about this country, but there is not a single country that doesn't have blood on its hands or skeletons in its closet. I'm no nationalist or cultural supremacist. I'm just happy I have the opportunity to be an inheritor of a set of traditions, institutions, and unique cultures.

I mean, sure there are plenty of bad things about this country, but there is not a single country that doesn't have blood on its hands or skeletons in its closet. I'm no nationalist or cultural supremacist. I'm just happy I have the opportunity to be an inheritor of a set of traditions, institutions, and unique cultures.
Nice... now I feel like playing my "School House Rock: America" CD...

[singing]
Rocking and a Rolling,
Splishing and Splashing
Over the Horizon,
what can it be...

Nice... now I feel like playing my "School House Rock: America" CD...
Excellent. Glad to know I had that effect on someone. Even if the result was a healthy dose of the kind of kitschy American civics that middle school teachers have a habit of showing on crappy VHS recordings when they run out of ideas.

I mean, sure there are plenty of bad things about this country, but there is not a single country that doesn't have blood on its hands or skeletons in its closet. I'm no nationalist or cultural supremacist. I'm just happy I have the opportunity to be an inheritor of a set of traditions, institutions, and unique cultures.


You also forgot to add thier are alot more good things about this country than bad.

Then id agree with you almost 100%

Whenever think of my country or the flag i remember the men who threw down thier gun in the face of the enemy to carry the flag. This nation is what i am proud to inherity from them.

I also profess the belief in American exeptionalism which for some reason our own countrymen find distastefull.

Excellent. Glad to know I had that effect on someone. Even if the result was a healthy dose of the kind of kitschy American civics that middle school teachers have a habit of showing on crappy VHS recordings when they run out of ideas.
Don't knock School House Rocks. it got me an A for social Studies assignment when we had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution.

Two words:

Hell no.

Don't knock School House Rocks. it got me an A for social Studies assignment when we had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution.
Hey, I didn't say it was bad. ;)

I also profess the belief in American exeptionalism which for some reason our own countrymen find distastefull.
In what way are we exceptional?

Why in the world would I be proud that ny sheer random chance I was one of the few people lucky enough to have been spit out of my mother on American soil?

That is absolutely silly.

Pride in one's country, that's something else entirely.

Though, I do like the fact I have dual citizenship. That's kinda fun.

and also, do you care enough to vote. :cool:


i figure I owe it to all the people who gave blood to enable me...I guess I am a little crazy that way...but I have not missed ONE election ...local/primary/national...that I have been eligable to vote in ..


but I'm old ...I believe in " civic responsibility ' and " practice what you preach'..along with " free love'...and other crap that doesnt matter anymore...


or so it seems..



BTW..The free love stuff was just in case..Aids and shit came along to ruin all that...it aint free...not to mention child support or kids....but it was a good idea while it lasted..and then I grew up and reality smacked the living shit outta me .

All terrrorist must die ....and Free love ? is that like a ,,,contradiction or something ?

Or could it be I am just a horny dude ?

And ...not for nothing ..is "horny dude " an oxymoron... ?

I gotta stop smoking this shit .

They do. But let me put it this way. I'm a rich guy, and I donate hundreds of thousands each year to charity. I built my own fortuine from the ground up. I'm in great shape, and I have a nice family. I have alot to be proud of. But, I'm been kidnapping, raping, and killing children on the side the whole time. I get caught, I fry. No "but he accomplished so much good" "he help such-and-such" "he was nice to his dog" No. It's "fry, you baby-fucking bastard."

Accomplishing things does not erase the blood on your hands. Especially if alot of your economic success (we're talking about America again here) comes from the death of other human beings.

So, while there is good, I just cannot be proud of a country that has, and continues to do, and has never atoned for or showed any remorse about, such evil.
All points taken. I feel that the world would be better off if more Americans shared your vein of ideas.

I am a proud citizen and a soldier in the united states army, i would shout that i am an american to anyone who asks with pride. This country rox sox but we have a lot of stupid people...anyway, yeah im proud to be an american.

I gotta stop smoking this shit .Yeah man. there's barely enough for me. :(

I am a proud citizen and a soldier in the united states army, i would shout that i am an american to anyone who asks with pride. This country rox sox but we have a lot of stupid people...anyway, yeah im proud to be an american.

So if someone at a dinner party would ask where you come from, your answer would be shouting "I'M AN AMERICAN!!! FUCK YEAH" ?

So if someone at a dinner party would ask where you come from, your answer would be shouting "I'M AN AMERICAN!!! FUCK YEAH" ?
No, he would bend over and show them the American flag sewn onto his ass! Heh! That makes just about as much sense as your comment. :p

Proud to be SICILIAN-AMERICAN, not American (if that makes sense).

I'm truely ashamed of my country.

I am not American
Though I live in North America
Which is part of the Americas
Which should make me an American

Geographically Canadians
Are certainly American
As are Venezuelans
But not Hawaiians

They're out in the middle of the o-ce-an
Just like the US Virgin I-li-ands
Who really shouldn't say they are American
Or even Vir-gi-ans

How could two whole continents
Lose their name to one constituent?
Where were we when the US went
And took the word American away?

But to be fair to them
Their other name op-ti-ons
Like USAers and United Statesians
Were pretty bad

Still I want to be as American
As the French are European
Or those in Antarctica are Antarctican
Even if they're just penguins

That leaves us Canadians
As Northern North Americans
But Alaska's Norther, curse them!
We're surrounded by Americans Americans

I just called those USAers, Americans
A name meant for two continents not just them
For if I said I were American
People'd probably think I came from Maine

But I think I have a plan
Let's join up with the penguins
And become Antarctican, we're just like them
We're not American!
-The Arrogant Worms

No, he would bend over and show them the American flag sewn onto his ass! Heh! That makes just about as much sense as your comment. :p
I believe his response was a reference to the movie "Team America" where the title song goes "America, FUCK YEAH!"

well, my answers are...
that the people can change this country with their votes. Granted there are other countries out there that are also democracies, but I was born and live in the US, so I am proud to be an American

True 'nuff.

because, ultimately, while we can blame the person in charge (I.E. the President) the true responsiblity lies on the People.

Which is why "love the country, hate the government" doesn't make much sence to me, but anyways...

It's the principals, the Ideals, the Dream that is America. Granted we are not perfect, but no country is. sure we fall short in many areas, but we still strive for perfection. Sure our Ideals may not match the rest of the world, but who's does. I'm Proud to be an American. Just like I expect a Japanese to be proud to be Japanese, or a Canadian to be Proud to be Canadian. if you are ashamed, then move. if your pride is only baised on the Unblemished record of any country, I challenge you to find one. and if or when you do, feel free to move there with my blessing.

Many people do strive for perfection, many do not. In my opinion, those in power many times do not, and instead pay lip service to the ideals while furthering their own agenda. Which quite oft gets people killed/exploited. And once again, this ties into the blame ultimatly falling on the people (me included, by the by).

I wouldn't only be proud of an umblemished country. But there are more catigories then "blemished" and "unblemished" the US, Iraq under Saddam, Joe Stalin, and Belguim all fall under the catigory of "blemished." Obviously each to different degrees. It's just a matter of how blemished you see a nation. I see America as more bad then good, more bad then can be forgiven, especially since no atonement has ever been sought. You see things differently. There is no conflict of values here, no diagreement on any priciple or defintion of right or wrong. We just hold different views on the subject, probably based on what facts we have heard/believed.

As for the "if you don't like it, move" mentality:

I don't move for the fallowing reasons

1) I only speak English
2) My whole extended family lives here in Maryland, I don't want to leave them
3) I have to right to live where I damn please, no government or man is ganna drive me off
4) Instead of run off to a country more in line with my ideals where I'd be happyer, I'd rather stay, help with the good, try to change the bad, and overall try to make my community a better place.
5) I'd rather fight against those who I feel are doing wrong, not throw,up my hands and flee.

noble sentiment, however, as long as a One-World government does not exsist. As long as you need papers and government forms to cross most international borders I ask you to allow me my pride and ideals in an abstract entity.

Not that it's really relivent, but One-World government would be a terrible thing, in my opinion.

But to adress the quote:

I don't mean to harrass you because of your pride, which I feel like I'm doing a litte, and as I said above, I see how we have our differing viewpoints, but even so, it just doesn't make sence to me. I also have pride in/support the ideas, but the problem with the absrtact entity is that it translates into a concrete entity (the US government), which many times does not deserve your pride, and your pride and patriotism, while admerable, is what's allowing it to go on killing South Americans unhindered, is what enables less scrupulous men (read: politicians) to whip the country into a patriotic ferver, and then direct it where and how they choose, and muster support for their own, often wicked, agenda.


"I ask you to allow me my pride and ideals in an abstract entity"

You don't have your pride on my or anyone else's allowance. Your own conscience is the only aproval and validation you need. While I disaree with you, I recgonize your absolute right to your own mind and ideas, and I am happy to shake hands, acknowledge your viewpoint, celebrate the parts we agree on, and part ways as friends.

You also forgot to add thier are alot more good things about this country than bad.

That's just not true.


I gotta stop smoking this shit .

Pass some of it my way :)

Proud to be SICILIAN-AMERICAN, not American (if that makes sense).

I'm truely ashamed of my country.

I'd be ashamed of Italy too... did you see the last election?
[/sarcasm]

I'd be ashamed of Italy too... did you see the last election?
[/sarcasm]
That would have made me proud to be Italian. </no sarcasm>

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, lalala...

Don't forget the men who gave us that right, don't taint their memory by giving any of those rights away either.

America = USA, the land of the free home of the brave.

and it's currently on a world wide tour now call "FREEDOM FOR U" it's so far hit some big successes including iraq, and Afghanistan. But has had to cancel some of it's showings such as france.

all i need to say is that america has the biggest guns (PERIOD) meaning say what you will, and keep out of our way. cause if you stand in it, your going to be hit by one hell of a blast.

when i go somewhere i purposely instigate them into political discussions, things like "Ya, thank god for the usa! Hell without us you'd speak german you f-in frog." USA, the only place that makes freedom free, even for you!" things along those lines.

ya, america rocks this world.

everyone else just wishes they were like U.S. thats the reason for the jealousy hatred

The French gave us the Statue of Liberty. Without them we wouldn't have gained independence.

Sometimes I Wear The Flag On My Clothing Or Luggage.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

What do you mean? Aren't Canada, USA, and Mexico in North America? Or does everybody have different ideas of the continents too?

And Central America is just a region, all countries within it are are in fact a part of North America.

I'm proud to be an American but i'm ashamed you're one.

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

NICE! Haha, that's great. I'll have to point that out to.......everybody :)

i love the usa and the song god bless the usa by lee greenwood is great it makes me pround to me a american and if anyone says there not proud the theres somthin wrong with em

i love the usa and the song god bless the usa by lee greenwood is great it makes me pround to me a american and if anyone says there not proud the theres somthin wrong with em

No, there is something wrong with you. Read the past few pages, not just come in with some bullshit opinion without responding to what has been said.

So I'm proud to be an American, but I'm not religious in the least. *sigh*:

Stereotypes...

i love the usa and the song god bless the usa by lee greenwood is great it makes me pround to me a american and if anyone says there not proud the theres somthin wrong with em

You may be proud to be an American, but you're clearly not proud of the English language. Do your country Internet a favor, and spend less time listening to Lee Greenwood and more time studying grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling.

You may be proud to be an American, but you're clearly not proud of the English language. Do your country Internet a favor, and spend less time listening to Lee Greenwood and more time studying grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling.

Yes, since "Do your country Internet a favor" is proper grammar, isn't it?

Yes, since "Do your country Internet a favor" is proper grammar, isn't it?

Hehehe... mea culpa on that one. I planned on writing "your country and the Internet," but changed my mind halfway through, and obviously didn't quite get around to deleting everything.

So... I suck. Do as I do, not as I say. Or wait... no... say as I do, not as I... crap. Whatever. :D

I happened to America, not America happened to me-so to speak. Seems backwards to be proud of it, it should be proud (or not) of me, really...

I love Northern California, and I'm glad I was born here. I'm not proud, per se, because I didn't do anything to be born here, and while I work harder and pay more just to stay, that's still not something to really be proud of. I'd tell anyone I'm from Northern California, it's a great place. It doesn't mean I agree with everyone here.

It's not a big deal, a lot of people love where they live.