NationStates Jolt Archive

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.

damn skippy I am proud to be an American (where at least I know I am free....)

I don't forsee a situation where I would want to leave the country, nor would I have to, but if I did, I am pretty sure they would be able to tell I was an American.

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, lalala...

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, lalala...
LOL, we are so cool. :p

I am proud to be American! :D

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, lalala...

SNIP *lots of words*

God.. Bless.. the.. U.S.A.!

Im a proud member of Americas armed forces and no matter were i go I will admit that I am a citizen of this country.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.
Or proud to be white...

(We all know where that leads) :D

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.


I am proud to be an American, proud to be an Oklahoman, proud to be a natural blonde, proud to be of Irish decent, I am proud to be a woman.........

I have pride damn it. it's not supposed to be rational.

I'm proud to be a Pennsylvanian!! :D

I'm proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free, And I won't forget the men who died who gave that right to me, And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today, lalala...
I am a proud patriotic Brit and suporter of the Empire and I think that the USA should still be Brittish call me old fasioned but that's the way I think. God Save the Queen!!

:D Oh well, rational is like sane.


Highly overrated.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.
True, but you can be proud of your nation's history or accomplishments. I don't really lean one way or the other, but I certainly don't hesitate to tell people I'm American if they ask where I'm from. *shrug*

I'm proud to be american. But then, I live in it's best part : Canada.

Of course I'm proud to be an American.
And I would identify myself as one when needed.

"As a Canadian, I am proud to be an American."

More seriously... this question sucks. "American" could refer to any of two continents and all of the nations on them, yet you only include one in the poll.

USA =/= America.

Why should I be "proud" of something over which I had no control?

because it's fun. :rolleyes: :D

"As a Canadian, I am proud to be an American."

More seriously... this question sucks. "American" could refer to any of two continents and all of the nations on them, yet you only include one in the poll.

USA =/= America.

I'm proud to be USian

Why should I be "proud" of something over which I had no control?
Because otherwise, Eutrusca will slap you with his trout of DOOM!!!1

because it's fun. :rolleyes: :D

I am a citizen of the world, a member of the human species.

These artificial national constructs have done us little good and much harm.

I'm proud to be USian
There, but for the grace of Mod and a healthy dose of common sense, go I.

"As a Canadian, I am proud to be an American."

More seriously... this question sucks. "American" could refer to any of two continents and all of the nations on them, yet you only include one in the poll.

USA =/= America.

I said "American" because thats what people from the US call themselves, and this question was directed at them.

I'm proud, definitely.:)

I'm proud to be american. But then, I live in it's best part : Canada.

Is the Canadian identity really that bad that you need to try to take ours?:rolleyes:

Or is it that your just jealous? :D

I'll just say that I love my country and that I love the principles that it's supposed to uphold even if it doesn't always live up to them. I do cherish the freedoms I enjoy and I respect the fact that they are not a given and should never be taken fro granted.

I said "American" because thats what people from the US call themselves, and this question was directed at them.

And you were right to do so. Dont listen to anything otherwise.

I said "American" because thats what people from the US call themselves, and this question was directed at them.
Well it leads to confusion. Better be more precise next time.

Is the Canadian identity really that bad that you need to try to take ours?:rolleyes:

Or is it that your just jealous? :D
Jealous? of the US? :rolleyes:

I was merely pointing out that the US does not have a monopoly on the term 'American'.

I guess I am.. but I keep hearing how we cry about gas prices yet drive huge SUVs. And how we knew Bush is an ass yet still elected him.. again..

So meh.. I'm moving to Canada.

I am not proud to live in this country because I didn't have a choice about where I was born. I am lucky to live in the US, because of relative wealth and the fact that we are something resembling "Free".

That does not, however, dim my shame for having such good fortune at a great cost to others.

Well it leads to confusion. Better be more precise next time.

That is precise, because thats what we call ourselves.

National identity is made up by a nations people.

If we choose to call ourselves Farfegnugans, and make it official, then we are Farfegnugans.

There are so many more important things to bitch about in the world, why must it be about the name we have given ourselves?

You Americans are crazy! You live in a country where the acumbant president received less of the popular vote than Kerry but still retained his title! A country where the electoral college still chooses the President rather than the people…. Where the north Democrats have more in common with the southern Republicans than the southern Democrats do. A place where the media tells you what to believe and you take it for law…. And a place so f**** up you have millions of illegal immigrants on protest who normally are keeping your economy alive and the majority of you want them out!

Jealous? of the US? :rolleyes:

I was merely pointing out that the US does not have a monopoly on the term 'American'.

*Checks CIA World Fact Book to see if any other people from other countries are called "American"*

Yes, it does.

I said "American" because thats what people from the US call themselves, and this question was directed at them.
Ok. So you'd say "Proud to be Français" or "Proud to be from Zhongguo" if this was directed at people from France or China? That's what they call themselves after all...

And Atlantian Islands, guess who wrote the CIA Factbook? A USian agency, no? :rolleyes:

America = USA, the land of the free home of the brave.

and it's currently on a world wide tour now call "FREEDOM FOR U" it's so far hit some big successes including iraq, and Afghanistan. But has had to cancel some of it's showings such as france.

all i need to say is that america has the biggest guns (PERIOD) meaning say what you will, and keep out of our way. cause if you stand in it, your going to be hit by one hell of a blast.

when i go somewhere i purposely instigate them into political discussions, things like "Ya, thank god for the usa! Hell without us you'd speak german you f-in frog." USA, the only place that makes freedom free, even for you!" things along those lines.

ya, america rocks this world.

everyone else just wishes they were like U.S. thats the reason for the jealousy hatred

*Checks CIA World Fact Book to see if any other people from other countries are called "American"*

Yes, it does.
... and misses an entire continent or two...

I therefore demand that you call me Canadien/Canadian because we two national languages and we call ourselves that. You must also stop using the terms German, Japanese, Chinese, Swede, and many more as they are not calling them by that term.

You Americans are crazy! You live in a country where the acumbant president received less of the popular vote than Kerry but still retained his title!

"Incumbent." And he received more votes than Kerry; less votes than Gore.

A country where the electoral college still chooses the President rather than the people….

That is indeed an absurdity.

Where the north Democrats have more in common with the southern Republicans than the southern Democrats do.

What are you talking about? Zell Miller compared to, say, Ted Kennedy? I guess it's somewhat true for the Black Congressmembers representing Black southern constituencies, though.

A place where the media tells you what to believe and you take it for law….

That is a problem.

And a place so f**** up you have millions of illegal immigrants on protest who normally are keeping your economy alive and the majority of you want them out!

Racism is a huge problem in this country, though a good portion of the population enjoys blinding themselves to this glaring fact.

... and misses an entire continent or two...

I therefore demand that you call me Canadien/Canadian because we two national languages and we call ourselves that. You must also stop using the terms German, Japanese, Chinese, Swede, and many more as they are not calling them by that term.

Nope, because those are the correct terms for those people, in English.

If you wanted to call America....los Ustados Unidos Americanos, because you were having a spanish conversion, you could do so.

Like if I was having a convo in German about Germany, I would be having a convo in Duetsch about Duetschland. But if I was having a convo in English about Germany, I would be having a convo in ENGLISH about GERMANY.

Your logic is flawed.

Why wouldn't I feel proud to be an American? The politicians don't make it up and what it represents still stands true.

I certainly would tell people I am from here, not that it would be neccessary. I understand most people can spot an American anyway, don't have to be told. :D

If you wanted to call America....los Ustados Unidos Americanos, because you were having a spanish conversion, you could do so.

If you were a really bad speaker of Spanish, sure.

And Atlantian Islands, guess who wrote the CIA Factbook? A USian agency, no? :rolleyes:

Sure an American agency wrote it, yet it would say exactly the same thing if a British agency wrote it. Why? I'm glad you asked that question. Because both countries speak English and in English that is the correct term for our country.

I'm proud be to an American, even if the free speech we're known for means I have to listen to non-words like "USian".

If you were a really bad speaker of Spanish, sure.

Real mature, you totally miss the point of my post to crack on my Spanish. :rolleyes:

Which part was wrong about it anyway? :p

Nope, because those are the correct terms for those people, in English.
But it isn't what they call themselves. Therefore, you shouldn't use those terms because you insist on being called by the USian name for itself.

An amusing double standard, isn't it...

The politicians don't make it up and what it represents still stands true.

What does it "represent"?

But it isn't what they call themselves. Therefore, you shouldn't use those terms because you insist on being called by the USian name for itself.

An amusing double standard, isn't it...

Thats cuz they speak other languages.

If I was having a conversation in Spanish with a Spanish guy in Spain...then YES, I would refer to his country as Espana.........BUT, since we are having a convo about America with Americans, you will refer to America as America.

I dont see what your missing here.

Sure an American agency wrote it, yet it would say exactly the same thing if a British agency wrote it. Why? I'm glad you asked that question. Because both countries speak English and in English that is the correct term for our country.
South Africa doesn't have a monopoly on the term "African", does it?

Then neither should the States have one on "American".

Besides, American has been used to refer to people from the Americas in general for much longer than it has been used to refer to the USA -- ever since 1497 or thereabouts when the first map appeared labeling them collectively "America". How long have USians been referring to themselves as Americans? Certainly not before 1620 or 1630 at the very least.

What does it "represent"?

Despite all the bullshit Bush has done lately it does still represent freedom and affluence. Given the state of the majority of the world's people there isn't a place to be that can be better than America.

Jealous? of the US? :rolleyes:

I was merely pointing out that the US does not have a monopoly on the term 'American'.

Canadians are not Americans. Equadorians are not Americans. Jamaicans are not Americans. While geographically these countries are part of the Americas, the United States is the only country that identifies it with their nationality. Thus the name United States of America.

BUT, since we are having a convo about America with Americans, you will refer to America as America.
See post #49.

A conversation about America with Americans, by me will be used to refer to a conversation about the American continents with residents of those continents. If I am having a conversation with US citizens about the USA, I will call them US citizens or a similar term and refer to it as the USA simply because it clears up confusion and shows that the US is not, much contrary to its own belief, the only country on the American continents.

Real mature, you totally miss the point of my post to crack on my Spanish. :rolleyes:

Which part was wrong about it anyway? :p

It's "Estados," not "Ustados," and "de América," not "Americanos."

Los Estados Unidos de América.

Edit: As for missing the point, the post was not directed at me, and I don't particularly care as to what people call those living in the United States.

I liked Canada, but now I'm not so sure. Are all Canadians like this, or just the ones on this forum? Why are they starting to want to be called Americans instead of just Canadians? If I was Canadian, I don't think I would rather be called American because it would cause too much confusion. I know the French don't call themselves French, but they don't call themselves European either do they?

Besides, wouldn't the Canadians be North Americans and not Americans?


I'm proud to be American, where at least I know I'm free.

Despite all the bullshit Bush has done lately it does still represent freedom and affluence. Given the state of the majority of the world's people there isn't a place to be that can be better than America.
Actually, in terms of per-capita income and freedom, Luxembourg, Great Britain, and Denmark outclass the USA by some degree. But I see that I'm sidetracking from your blind patriotism with facts. My sincerest apologies. :rolleyes:

I am proud to be an (not from the USA) American.

People from the USA (who correctly self-identify as Americans) should also be proud of being Americans!

South Africa doesn't have a monopoly on the term "African", does it?

Then neither should the States have one on "American".

Besides, American has been used to refer to people from the Americas in general for much longer than it has been used to refer to the USA -- ever since 1497 or thereabouts when the first map appeared labeling them collectively "America". How long have USians been referring to themselves as Americans? Certainly not before 1620 or 1630 at the very least.

We've been calling ourselves "Americans" for centuries. The non-word "USian" hasn't even been around a decade. :p

Canadians are not Americans. Equadorians are not Americans. Jamaicans are not Americans. While geographically these countries are part of the Americas, the United States is the only country that identifies it with their nationality. Thus the name United States of America.
Canadiens/Canadians, Jamaicans and Equadorians are most assuredly americans. So is the US Citizens. Unfortunately, the US is the only one who seem to lack originality when choosing it's nation name. So we get stuck with this problem.

We've been calling ourselves "Americans" for centuries. The non-word "USian" hasn't even been around a decade. :p
Would you prefer United statesian?

Would you prefer United statesian?

It's better than "USian", but it still sounds cumbersome.

We've been calling ourselves "Americans" for centuries. The non-word "USian" hasn't even been around a decade. :p
The people of the rest of the Americas have been calling themselves Americans for at least a century before the British Colonies began to even consider themselves United Statesmen or anything else other than Brits. :p

I liked Canada, but now I'm not so sure. Are all Canadians like this, or just the ones on this forum? Why are they starting to want to be called Americans instead of just Canadians? If I was Canadian, I don't think I would rather be called American because it would cause too much confusion. I know the French don't call themselves French, but they don't call themselves European either do they?

Besides, wouldn't the Canadians be North Americans and not Americans?


I'm proud to be American, where at least I know I'm free.
Why is that? Please don't tell me you think that every one agrees on the continents.

It's better than "USian", but it still sounds cumbersome.
Well ,we seem at an impass then because the less cumbersome term is USian.

I Am Proud To Be An American. When I Travel It Is Obvious That I'm American. Sometimes I Wear The Flag On My Clothing Or Luggage. Of Course I Don't Travel To The Middle East Right Now. (chuckle) There Is Nothing Wrong With Being Proud Of Where You Come From, Wherever That May Be.

II know the French don't call themselves French, but they don't call themselves European either do they?
.

There is a growing feeling in Europe to call themselves Europeans rather than their countries nationality or the use of both. This trend also scares your government because something such as the United States of Europe would be more than a simple rival against the power of the USA. I personally would love if such a thing occurred since the USA at the present moment with the collapse of the Soviet Union has too much of a monopoly of power around the globe!

Well ,we seem at an impass then because the less cumbersome term is USian.
How about just calling them colonials and leaving it at that. ;)

I'm off for the day. G'nite all.

Actually, in terms of per-capita income and freedom, Luxembourg, Great Britain, and Denmark outclass the USA by some degree. But I see that I'm sidetracking from your blind patriotism with facts. My sincerest apologies. :rolleyes:

I didn't actually say we were the richest, just that we are better off then most of the world. Besides is there something wrong with loving your country?

Why is that? Please don't tell me you think that every one agrees on the continents.


What do you mean? Aren't Canada, USA, and Mexico in North America? Or does everybody have different ideas of the continents too?

It's better than "USian", but it still sounds cumbersome.

I've never even heard the term "USian" until I came to NS. Not once have I heard anyone use that term. Must of missed something. :p

As asn American, I endear that which this country was founded upon; but, presently, I am ashamed of our policies, both domestic and international.

The people of the rest of the Americas have been calling themselves Americans for at least a century before the British Colonies began to even consider themselves United Statesmen or anything else other than Brits. :p

Really? Canada was also a British colony, and Mexico was owned by Spain. What part of America called themselves "American" before we did?

I know the French don't call themselves French, but they don't call themselves European either do they?
Look at it this way. Have you ever seen someone here tell something to the effect of "you europeans...", "european leftist" or anything similar?

What do you refer those inhabitting the American continent?

Really? Canada was also a British colony, and Mexico was owned by Spain. What part of America called themselves "American" before we did?
Britain and Spain was calling those living over here Americans before those colonials from some states decided to revolt.

What do you mean? Aren't Canada, USA, and Mexico in North America? Or does everybody have different ideas of the continents too?

Depends. Some people define all of the Americas as one continent. Some think it is two continents: North America and South America. Some say it is three: North America, Central America, and South America.

What do you mean? Aren't Canada, USA, and Mexico in North America? Or does everybody have different ideas of the continents too?
Continents vary depending on where you learned your geography. Some say there are 5,6,7 or 8. Some lump Europe and Asia into Eurasia, some lump North and South american into one big America. So yeah, people have different ideas on continents.

Look at it this way. Have you ever seen someone here tell something to the effect of "you europeans...", "european leftist" or anything similar?

What do you refer those inhabitting the American continent?


It depends on which American continent. North Americans, South Americans, and I've never been sure exactly where this is, but Central Americans.

How about just calling them colonials and leaving it at that. ;)

I'm off for the day. G'nite all.
same reason we don't call Europians African/Middle Eastern immagrents. We've been here a while.

It depends on which American continent. North Americans, South Americans, and I've never been sure exactly where this is, but Central Americans.
and what about those who see America as one continent?

I'm Canadian.
You couldn't pay me enough to move to America.
Might be okay for vacationing. Especially when our dollar starts to kick the American dollars ass. It's coming. Believe you me.

Continants vary depending on where you learned your geography. Some say there are 5,6,7 or 8. Some lump Europe and Asia into Eurasia, some lump North and South american into one big America. So yeah, people have different ideas on continents.

When I was in school, there were 7 continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Austraila, and Antarctica. I'm not sure why some people consider Eurasia and America one continent (each) instead of two, but until I hear a convincing reason otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.

I'm Canadian.
You couldn't pay me enough to move to America.
Might be okay for vacationing. Especially when our dollar starts to kick the American dollars ass. It's coming. Believe you me.
your reasoning being?

When I was in school, there were 7 continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Austraila, and Antarctica. I'm not sure why some people consider Eurasia and America one continent (each) instead of two, but until I hear a convincing reason otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.
When I was in school, there were 6 continents: America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and Antartica. I'm not sure why some people consider north and south america to be a different continent, but until I hear a convincing reson otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.

and with that, I'm off.

Didn't we just have this conversation? Let me check the minutes.

It's correct to call a citizen of the USA American since, sadly, that's the name they came up with.

It's also correct to call a citizen of any other country in the American continent (or the Americas, however you prefer) American, since that's how the continent's been known for almost five centuries.

If there's a danger of confusion, then you specify.

Use of USian or something else, although not prefered, is not inappropriate (except for Eutrusca, who finds it offensive)

It went downhill after that.

When I was in school, there were 7 continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Austraila, and Antarctica. I'm not sure why some people consider Eurasia and America one continent (each) instead of two, but until I hear a convincing reason otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.
Because it depends on how you slice it, geography, culture, darts on a map, plenty of good reasons. This is however a good example of poor education, learning to regergitate facts insted of reasoning.

Proud Canadian. But I don't need to proclaim that everywhere I go. And I don't believe my country is better than any other. I believe that if people want to live in a country, then it's worth living in, whether it's the US, South Africa, the UK, Canada, Iraq, China, wherever.
I will say this, though: mainland Europeans are a great people. They are the friendliest I've ever met. They'll go to a restaurant, get a coffee or something small, then talk with their friends. 3 hours later, they'll still have the food because they spent all that time talking... and then when they get ready to leave, they'll stay at the front door for another half hour or an hour...o.o; And it's fun conversation, too. They don't drone...
Anyway, that's off-topic. I think Americans are right to live proudly, but they have a way of screaming it to every other nation in the world...like they're the best or something. (Not all of them, obviously, but those that are "proud Americans" have a tendency to do this) Kinda like Catholics, which is ironic, too, because there are many Catholics that believe that Wicca = Satanic and that Satanism is all about evil and how evil is right.... and this is often associated with the American.

Calling Canadians only "North Americans?" No way. Why, should Americans (United States) be called "Middle of North America, North Americans?"

My opinon, technically, people from Canada and any south American country are considered "Americans" because they come from an "America" (South, North..), but if you were to go to another country and tell someone you're American they automatically assume you're from The United States. It's really just a communication problem. Heh.

As I am from the United States, am I proud to be an American? Most of the time. But I can't lie, I do get angry with our government. A lot. I love the country, how we're free with everything and such, but people do stupid things here.

When I was in school, there were 7 continents: North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Austraila, and Antarctica. I'm not sure why some people consider Eurasia and America one continent (each) instead of two, but until I hear a convincing reason otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.
There's no real reason to clump them in any particular way other than historical. And that's just custom.

East Canuck, North America and South America are different continents according to the UN and every geography/map book i've ever seen. According to your arguement you could say Europe and Asia are one continent.

Also, the correct term for a US citizen is American.

I'm somewhat proud, although that idiot Bush has made all of us look bad.

I live in the US and am a citizen, though I have no particular pride or hatred for it at the moment. I look at actions and principles. Right now the US is pretty neutral. So I stay. If it falls to anarchy masquerading as liberalism (not true liberalism) which is where the country seems to be headed, then I will rebel. If not, I'll stay.

Country of origin does not matter; what the country does matters.

A little, I mean I wouldn't tell people I come from Canada or anything like that. And I do like a few of the ideals that they teach you in grade school the USA stands for, shame we don't live up to most of them.

The country is in a degenerative, downward spiral, and I don't foresee a major shift in the pitiable ignorance level of its masses or in the contemptible partisan state of mind that continues to pervade the two major political herds. I'm beyond being ashamed - I no longer consider myself an American.

Look at it this way. Have you ever seen someone here tell something to the effect of "you europeans...", "european leftist" or anything similar?

What do you refer those inhabitting the American continent?
Which one? We learn there are two american continents that just happen to be connected the same way that Eurasia and Africa are connected, so we don't have the same problem distinguishing between the two that you have. Personally I'm still confused as to why the Americas are one continent, but Eurasia and Africa aren't.

There are 7 continents: North America, South America, Africa, Europe, Asia, Austrailia, an Antartica. If it wasn't for people on Nationstates forums, I would have thought everyone knew that.

When I was in school, there were 6 continents: America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and Antartica. I'm not sure why some people consider north and south america to be a different continent, but until I hear a convincing reson otherwise, I'll go with what I learned.

and with that, I'm off.
See, I don't get this North And South America are connected by a fairly thin strip of land, geographicaly speaking, yet you regard them as more connected than Europe and Asia which are seperated by a mountain range?

In the sense of national identity, yes I am proud to be a citizen of the United States. I feel very fortunate.

However, there a goodly number of Americans that piss me off, irritate the crap out of me, and I generally view as an embarassment to my country.

I don't think I need to go into specifics who. I think it is rather obvious.

So that puts me foursquare into the "Somewhat" category.

East Canuck, North America and South America are different continents according to the UN and every geography/map book i've ever seen. According to your arguement you could say Europe and Asia are one continent.

Also, the correct term for a US citizen is American.

I'm somewhat proud, although that idiot Bush has made all of us look bad.
And if you read back, you'll se that people do see europe and asia as one continent some places. Who's right, who's wrong? What does it matter?

Did you read every geography book on the planet or a small sampling coming from the same educational system?

Which one? We learn there are two american continents that just happen to be connected the same way that Eurasia and Africa are connected, so we don't have the same problem distinguishing between the two that you have. Personally I'm still confused as to why the Americas are one continent, but Eurasia and Africa aren't.
me too. It depends on what you learned in school, it seems. So who's right? Who's wrong?

There are 7 continents: North America, South America, Africa, Europe, Asia, Austrailia, an Antartica. If it wasn't for people on Nationstates forums, I would have thought everyone knew that.
There are 6 continents: America, Africa, Europe, Asia, Australia and Antartica. If it wasn't for people on Nationstates forums, I would have thought everyone knew that. :)

See, I don't get this North And South America are connected by a fairly thin strip of land, geographicaly speaking, yet you regard them as more connected than Europe and Asia which are seperated by a mountain range?
I know, weird isn't it. It would seem we inherited the definition of continents from Europe when we came over here.

Then, for some reason, the US went and differentiated between north and south America. I wonder why?

Why would I be proud of a throw of the dice?

Damn straight I'm proud to be 100% all American.

Im fucking proud to be drunk. I've just got 1 bottle and a half of 55° kick ass good rhum. Damn for that I'm proud.

I know, weird isn't it. It would seem we inherited the definition of continents from Europe when we came over here.

Then, for some reason, the US went and differentiated between north and south America. I wonder why?
Because they are about as physicaly connected as Eurasia and Africa? Anyway, how do you know the US were the first to differentiate between N and S America, that could have been done by any of the European powers fiddling around in this hemishpere, maybe upon discovering more about the physical characteristics of the area.

I know, weird isn't it. It would seem we inherited the definition of continents from Europe when we came over here.

Then, for some reason, the US went and differentiated between north and south America. I wonder why?
Well, I am European and learned there are 7 continents. So maybe the Canadians are the odd one out?

The country is in a degenerative, downward spiral, and I don't foresee a major shift in the pitiable ignorance level of its masses or in the contemptible partisan state of mind that continues to pervade the two major political herds.

Welcome to modern American thought, 1650 to present.

I'm beyond being ashamed - I no longer consider myself an American.

That's a shame.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.

Then I'll say that I'm damned glad I was born in the USA and not somewhere else. And I love my country and will do my best to be a creditable citizen. If I can't say I'm proud of my country (and I am, so there), I hope that I can be proud of myself for being a good American.

No way am i proud to be american. Have u seen our President?

Thanks to the immigrant crap, I am now proud to be a real American.

I'm Canadian and i would prefer to be called Canadian than American, but it wouldn't offend me if someone called me American.

I learned there were seven continents too, so obviously even schools here are different from eachother.

I have many friends in the U.S. and i have been there on vacation numerous times. I love Canada, but if i had a good reason to move to New York City, i'd do it in a heartbeat, it's my favorite place in the world.

Well, I suppose you could call us all United States of Americans, though you might get tired of typing/saying that all the time. Even if you don't agree with our president and are from the USA, suck it up. I didn't like the last guy when he was in power, and he screwed us over royally (in some cases literally, in other cases, only in foreign policy).

Because they are about as physicaly connected as Eurasia and Africa? Anyway, how do you know the US were the first to differentiate between N and S America, that could have been done by any of the European powers fiddling around in this hemishpere, maybe upon discovering more about the physical characteristics of the area.
Maybe. Who knows why some places differentiate between the two and some don't. My point is that there is no consensus on continents so American can refer to those living in the US or on "Smaller giant landmass". Therefore, you do not have the monopoly on the term "American".

Well, I am European and learned there are 7 continents. So maybe the Canadians are the odd one out?
Maybe. It doesn't matter, though. Some of us did learn that America refer to this giant landmass between the pacific ocean and the atlantic ocean.

I voted God bless the USA.

Another great thread that should have had a Public Poll.

I am an American and an individual member of a society. I could not help the place of my birth or the fact that I was raised to feel comfortable here. It would be unreasonable to be either proud or ashamed of what I am.

Maybe. Who knows why some places differentiate between the two and some don't. My point is that there is no consensus on continents so American can refer to those living in the US or on "Smaller giant landmass". Therefore, you do not have the monopoly on the term "American".
Not a monopoly but not a restriction on its use either.

Heh, if he were still alive I'm sure Amerigo Vespucci would be proud that so many people are arguing over whether they deserve to be named after him. :p

Anyway, there are no other countries that use a derivative of his name in their national name, so it's fair to call someone from the United States of America an American with respect to their nationality. It seems uncommon to refer to someone from the Americas (any nation) by their continental origin, since the other continental designations (African, Asian, European) tend to be associated with ethnic indicators and that's not typically relevant to people from the Americas. It would still be accurate to call someone from Canada, Columbia, Mexico, Panama, etc., an American, but it's more acceptable to use their national designation instead.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.
You may have no choice in where you are born, but once you're old enough you do have the right to choose whether you want to keep living where you were born or if you would rather emigrate to another place that will have you. If you continue to live in your place of birth even after you have the right or ability to move elsewhere, then you've implicitly given your consent that you would rather live where you are, and so being a matter of preference it's not quite so irrational to be proud of where you live, no moreso than any other choice.

Am I proud to be an American? Meh, somewhat--I don't particularly agree with its understanding of freedom but I do appreciate the quality of life that's been made possible due to the labor of those who came before me.

I'm not proud to be an American. I feel slightly lucky, but not proud.

And I'll call myself an American if I feel like it. If someone is confused by my use of the word, I'll just explain it too them. I will also attemt to call other people how they want to be called. American is just what I'm used to, and while I don't see anything wrong with the term USian, I would appreciate it if people called me American, cause thats what I would like to be called.

Well, I suppose you could call us all United States of Americans, though you might get tired of typing/saying that all the time. Even if you don't agree with our president and are from the USA, suck it up. I didn't like the last guy when he was in power, and he screwed us over royally (in some cases literally, in other cases, only in foreign policy).

As I said, it's this president, but more importanly it's the people in power, the ones who have been in power the past 2 decades, and the actions of all those in power over the years that gets to me.




For all of you who want to hate Bush so much and say he's destroying freedom, I say to you that freedom and privacy were destroyed a long time ago. Bush is just being less sneaky about it, because he created a war fever, so he can.

But more importantly, Bush is not running things. Cheany is, Rumsfeild is, Wolfewitz is, Ashcroft is. You want a full list of who's been running the country for the past 2 decades? Just check out the list of authors of this:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

No way am i proud to be american. Have u seen our President?

That's not really a good reason to reject your nationality

Now, if you wanted to look at every single Us president, at the way our government has acted for the past 200 years, and especially the US military over the years, there's plenty of reasons not to be proud to be an american.

I'm not against america because of our current leader, I am because of the way our government and military has been run for the past 200 years.

You may have no choice in where you are born, but once you're old enough you do have the right to choose whether you want to keep living where you were born or if you would rather emigrate to another place that will have you. If you continue to live in your place of birth even after you have the right or ability to move elsewhere, then you've implicitly given your consent that you would rather live where you are, and so being a matter of preference it's not quite so irrational to be proud of where you live, no moreso than any other choice.
bla bla bla it's not true or I would be on a sunny island in south pacific right now. If you are born in the US or in Europe, you stay there and if you are unlucky enough to be borned elsewhere, you get bombed and want to go where there is the money. I'm not proud to live where the money is, I'm just trying to survive.

bla bla bla it's not true or I would be on a sunny island in south pacific right now. If you are born in the US or in Europe, you stay there and if you are unlucky enough to be borned elsewhere, you get bombed and want to go where there is the money. I'm not proud to live where the money is, I'm just trying to survive.

In Mongolia you are happy to ride your horse, tend your herd, and sleep in a tent. In parts of Africa you are happy to dance and stick-fight and raise cattle. It's mostly in poor yet industrialised countries where you get bombed/shot/sick/starving/all that other bad crap.

That's not to say that the Mongolian steppes or African bush is a paradise, and there are no wars, and you are as healthy as a westerner, because those things arn't true, but as I said, they arn't huddling in slums wishing they were a rich white guy.

I'm proud to be who I am, and nothing more. When you remove all the arbitrary, meaningless definition, there is no such thing as an American, Canadian, Iraqi, etc. It frustrates me to no end to hear people rant about the "American people" or the "great nation of Iran." Because that's the attitude that leads to division and strife, and it seems like nearly every nation on earth is guilty of it. The interests of one group of people falling under the arbitrary jurisdiction of an arbitrarily defined region of the earth put ahead of the interests of another group of people falling under the arbitrary jurisdiction of an arbitrarily defined region of the earth. It's utterly stupid.

I was born in the geographic region called America. Under U.S. law, I am defined as an American citizen. The "rights" I enjoy as such are not inherent to being an American citizen, nor are they any more deserved because of this. I am not an American. I am a human, and that's all that matters. I don't even care how shamefully the U.S. government acts. Even if it were the purest, most benevolent government in existence, I would not call myself an American.

I'd be more likely to tell people I was from Arizona then America...I don't know why I love the desert but I do. Does that make sense? Proud of my state but so-so on my country?

I'll just say that I love my country and that I love the principles that it's supposed to uphold even if it doesn't always live up to them. I do cherish the freedoms I enjoy and I respect the fact that they are not a given and should never be taken fro granted.

Damned right! http://peta-sucks.com/smf/Smileys/default/icon_flag.gif

The way I see things, "The Americas" refers to both American continents--North and South America, the Caribbean, et cetera. "South America" refers to the continent of the same name. Ditto for "North America." "America" refers to the USA.

Not that I particularly care what I'm called, so long as I'm not called an "imperialist, heretic dog" or some such nonsense.

And with that in mind, I'm damned proud and glad to be an American. Sure, I'm frustrated with the state of our legislative government and the rampant partisan politics, but I am proud of some of my country's accomplishments. Sure, there are probably better countries out there, but as far as countries go, I could have been born in far worse countries.

bla bla bla it's not true or I would be on a sunny island in south pacific right now. If you are born in the US or in Europe, you stay there and if you are unlucky enough to be borned elsewhere, you get bombed and want to go where there is the money. I'm not proud to live where the money is, I'm just trying to survive.
Your Eurocentrism is showing. :p By your logic there would never be any emigration from the United States or Europe, or any developed nation, which simply isn't true. Course people will usually migrate from one developed nation to another, such as United States to Canada or Britain to Japan, but that's still a matter of choosing is it not?

Fuck yeah Im proud to be an American! America rules all!

Your Eurocentrism is showing. :p By your logic there would never be any emigration from the United States or Europe, or any developed nation, which simply isn't true. Course people will usually migrate from one developed nation to another, such as United States to Canada or Britain to Japan, but that's still a matter of choosing is it not?
No it's not. USA = Japan = EU. Still no choice.

Ok. So you'd say "Proud to be Français" or "Proud to be from Zhongguo" if this was directed at people from France or China? That's what they call themselves after all...


that's fucking stupid. Of course you wouldn't say "Proud to be Français or Zhongguo" because that's a fucking different language than english. You'd say, "fier d'être français" if you were french and however it'd be said in chinese (because babelfish doesn't do pinyin).

I'd be more likely to tell people I was from Arizona then America...I don't know why I love the desert but I do. Does that make sense? Proud of my state but so-so on my country?

I think a lot more people feel that way than we may realize. As in being more proud of their state than the USA as a whole. When I was in the Army the standard thing (not regulation, but something just often done) was to put a US flag in the top of your helmet. I do remember once when we were in Kuwait and everyone had grounded all of their gear while waiting for a bus. Probably 80% of those with flags had US flags in their helmets, but about 20% had state flags.

I personally hate the desert, but I'm from Michigan and my biggest experience with the desert was a year in Iraq, so that would explain that.

The US used to be cool. Then she turned all hypocrital and mean.

Absolute Power corrupts absolutley. And, the US has Absolute Power (well, least did till china starting playing superpower).

Btw, Canada PWNS!

I'm somewhat proud of the US for what we have accomplished but I am also ashamed of our actions in many instances. Humanity as a whole shames me though. So like, you know, what everrrr. There are plenty of places that are just as good if not better than the US so why should I be all nationalistic? What purpose does it serve? Screw "God Bless the USA" more like "God bless the world"

I merely deal with being American.

I have a sticker that sums up my feelings on the matter:

"Proud to be American; ashamed of my government."

And as far as the whole use of the term "American" goes, I agree that it's not quite right because ALL residents of South and NOrth America are technically "Americans," but I can't think of a better term. "Citizen of the United States of America" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. So until something better and more accurate comes up, it's what I'll call myself.

I'm ashamed of my country everytime I see MTV or Jerry Springer, and think of some of the other crappy "entertainment" the rest of the world gets to enjoy because of us.

I like our free speech and bill of rights and whatnot.

"Proud to be American; ashamed of my government."

'Couldn't have said it better myself.

I have a sticker that sums up my feelings on the matter:

"Proud to be American; ashamed of my government."

And as far as the whole use of the term "American" goes, I agree that it's not quite right because ALL residents of South and NOrth America are technically "Americans," but I can't think of a better term. "Citizen of the United States of America" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. So until something better and more accurate comes up, it's what I'll call myself.


We've had this discussion here and people are going to hate me for this... "USian" lol - man that riles some people up.

We've had this discussion here and people are going to hate me for this... "USian" lol - man that riles some people up.

Oh Christ.

It doesn't bother us because it's offensive.

It bothers us because it's corny.

It's like somebody "saying you go girl" or bling.

Oh Christ.

It doesn't bother us because it's offensive.

It bothers us because it's corny.

It's like somebody "saying you go girl" or bling.

*looks for the post where I said it was offensive* Nope, ndidn't say it, BUT if you look at the thread where we discussed this for pages upon pages, there WERE people who said it was offensive, so I imagine you don't speak for everyone who doesn't like the term.

I live to be corny. :p

USian sounds like crap, this coming from a Canadian.

But I keep telling you, go with United Statesman. It's descriptive. It sounds somehow badass because it points out that you're part of something bigger than just a single country.. you're a collection of states that are united. That strikes me as way cooler than just being a citizen of an ordinary country.

It even has a bit of a martial feel to it, which just works these days, all things considered.

If you United Statesmen want to be called Americans, I suppose that's fine, but don't begrudge me my right to the continent I live on as well.

USian sounds like crap, this coming from a Canadian.

But I keep telling you, go with United Statesman.

Statesman?

That's sexist.

Masters/Mistresses of the Universe seems like a good choice to me.

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.
Yes, I will tell people that I am an American if I travel abroad. If they don't like it, they can shove it.

Statesman?

That's sexist.

And hence even more descriptive!

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.
[ points at his signature block ] :D

And hence even more descriptive!


Don't worry, one day, by working together we can end womans' suffrage.

[ points at his signature block ] :D

:p Good one.

The freedom's my country retains for me, like not making me pay for permits yearly to watch TV, nor making me vote or fining me, make me glad I live here.

The government very regularly makes me wary, and if there's ever been a bunch of treasonous bastards in this country, it's the current Congress.


/Won't rant here.

i am very embarrassed of being an american
the government and the pig-headed citizens that follow bush give all americans a bad rep.


america sux, i hate it here


DOWN WITH THE STARS AND STRIPES OF CORRUPTION



BUSH ADMINISTRATION:upyours:

i am very embarrassed of being an american
the government and the pig-headed citizens that follow bush give all americans a bad rep.


america sux, i hate it here


DOWN WITH THE STARS AND STRIPES OF CORRUPTION



BUSH ADMINISTRATION:upyours:
You must be 13 years old.

I am proud to be an American, proud to be an Oklahoman, proud to be a natural blonde, proud to be of Irish decent, I am proud to be a woman.........

I have pride damn it. it's not supposed to be rational.



cheers to that. Pride is somethign for ourselves not for anyone else. Pride is what we feel. Ireevalancy has no meaning in anything. We are not comparing anythign so how can that be irrevalent to the question "are you proud of being an american" Im proud for this country and the freedom it gives us. I would rather be no where else

You must be 13 years old.

:eek: (Never thought I'd say this).. I agree.

:eek: (Never thought I'd say this).. I agree.
I could understand and agree with an intelligent argument, as I'm no fan of the Bush admin. myself, but rants in capital letters tend to make me lose my respect for the perpetrator of said actions. And that smiley was the last straw.

And as far as the whole use of the term "American" goes, I agree that it's not quite right because ALL residents of South and NOrth America are technically "Americans," but I can't think of a better term. "Citizen of the United States of America" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. So until something better and more accurate comes up, it's what I'll call myself.

Actually, they're not. We're either North or South Americans. Calling a Bolivian an American because he lives in South American makes as much sense as calling a Kiwi (New Zealander) an Australian. ;)

If you want to go further back to the pre-Bolivar days, anyone south of the US-Mexican border is still not an American: they're residents of New Spain (except Brazil, which was New Portugal).
So until the US buys Mexico and Central America outright... they're not American States. They're states in South America, but not American States like the 50.

Canada? Obviously they're NORTH Americans, sure. :D

I love my country and when I traveled alone for several months in the Middle East I was always honest about being an American. I thought and still think that those who pretended to be Canadian were cowards. Be proud of this great country even if you disagree with actions it's government has taken. Anyone who judges you without first knowing you is not worth your time.

You Americans are crazy! You live in a country where the acumbant president received less of the popular vote than Kerry but still retained his title!
President Bush won the popular vote by three million votes.


That does not, however, dim my shame for having such good fortune at a great cost to others.
I'm reminded of something President Reagan said back in 1964:

We have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion that the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one.

The developing countries, the "victims" of so-called "American imperialism", are the countries (I'm talking about people, not governments) which have the most positive opinion of American influence in the world.


america sux, i hate it here

Then why don't you leave? I'd be happy to take your place (and I say this as a Canadian).

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.
Damn right I'm proud...!

Dog bless the USA! Yes, Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Dog bless the USA! Yes, Dog the Bounty Hunter.

Now THAT'S a sentiment I can get behind :)

Screw "God Bless the USA" more like "God bless the world"

Nice. That's pretty much how I feel. God bless everyone.

Actually, they're not. We're either North or South Americans. Calling a Bolivian an American because he lives in South American makes as much sense as calling a Kiwi (New Zealander) an Australian. ;)

If you want to go further back to the pre-Bolivar days, anyone south of the US-Mexican border is still not an American: they're residents of New Spain (except Brazil, which was New Portugal).
So until the US buys Mexico and Central America outright... they're not American States. They're states in South America, but not American States like the 50.

Canada? Obviously they're NORTH Americans, sure. :D
Gee... The obvious conclusion is that you haven't bothered to read the thread or you would have known that there is no consensus on continents. :rolleyes:

Gee... The obvious conclusion is that you haven't bothered to read the thread or you would have known that there is no consensus on continents. :rolleyes:
Nor on stupid, derogatory names for America, obviously. [ points at his signature block ] :(

Actually, they're not. We're either North or South Americans. Calling a Bolivian an American because he lives in South American makes as much sense as calling a Kiwi (New Zealander) an Australian. ;)
They're both from Oceania, aren't they?

If you want to go further back to the pre-Bolivar days, anyone south of the US-Mexican border is still not an American: they're residents of New Spain (except Brazil, which was New Portugal).
Once again, nothing astounds me more than the ignorance portrayed by US people about the history of our continent. It's like for them it doesn't exist, like the US is an isolated island floating in the middle of the ocean.

Not all the Spanish colonies were New Spain, Brazil was not New Portugal, the English colonies were the English colonies, and America was the name given by Europeans to the entire continent. I mean, people, at least start reading some history on the colonization of the continent and the origin of its name before you start revealing your ignorance.
So until the US buys Mexico and Central America outright... they're not American States. They're states in South America, but not American States like the 50.
They're not part of the USA, but they're American States. Google Organization of American States.

Nor on stupid, derogatory names for America, obviously. [ points at his signature block ] :(
WTF? Where did I use a derogatory term in this thread?

Cut the stupid crap, nobody is out to insult you any time they can. Despite your condescending attitude.

Frist off, anyone who lives in North or South America can accuratly be call an American, just as anyone from any nation in Europe can be called European.

Second, I really don't see the problem with calling people from the US Americans. So long as you realise it's also accurate to call someone from Mexico or Boliva an American.

Third, USian is not a derogitory term. It just isn't.

The reason there's so much confision is because we're the only nation who's nation name is the same as the name of the continent we're on.

Accully, the name of the nation is the United States of America, America is just alot easyer to say. Because it's shorter.



But, of course, you all will still argue about it.

But, of course, you all will still argue about it.
No, we already had that argument, 1200 or so posts of it, last week.

I concluded that the US citizenry is an oversensitive arrogant bunch, but if they find USian offensive then I'll use something else to describe them. I will not however use American as that refers to all of the people on the two or three continents.

i.e. I am conceding to their sensitivities but they are as arrogant as ever with respect to the term American. Go figure.

I concluded that the US citizenry is an oversensitive arrogant bunch, but if they find USian offensive then I'll use something else to describe them. I will not however use American as that refers to all of the people on the two or three continents.

I haven't really come across somebody who considers Usian offensive, they just think is sounds awkward. And the reason we (as a whole) get arrogant when called something other than Americans is because we've been called Americans for the past 200 or so years.

I haven't really come across somebody who considers Usian offensive, they just think is sounds awkward. And the reason we (as a whole) get arrogant when called something other than Americans is because we've been called Americans for the past 200 or so years.

I would link to the thread, but it was locked and thus linking to it is not a good idea. However I created a poll on this issue and some 60 or so people indicated that they found it offensive. (Admittedly more people voted Chocolate Hobnobs, but then this is NS General)

I would link to the thread, but it was locked and thus linking to it is not a good idea. However I created a poll on this issue and some 60 or so people indicated that they found it offensive. (Admittedly more people voted Chocolate Hobnobs, but then this is NS General)

Wow. Well people I come into contact with on a daily basis don't find it offensive. How's that?

Wow. Well people I come into contact with on a daily basis don't find it offensive. How's that?

Ask Eutrusca about it.

Wow. Well people I come into contact with on a daily basis don't find it offensive. How's that?

Because this is the NS forum, people here are poltically charged/polerized/minded/what have you.

Plus, a thread like that is bound to attract those offended.

I really don't care what you call me. I'm Greek. I live in Rockville, just outside of DC. I live in the US. American, USian, whatever.

How it can, in any way, be construed as a derogotory term is beyond me.

How you can deny that someone from the Americas is American is beyond me, as well.

You wanna name yourself the same thing as the continent, whatever, but that don't give you a monopoly on the word.

If a nation in Europe named themselves the Republic of Europe, it would still be correct to call someone from England or Germany European.

I meant "How's that?" as a way to end my statement, it wasn't really a question. I probably should have made that clearer someway, but whatever.

And when I talked about how we take offense to USian, etc., I was talking about the country as a whole (which is why I said "we (as a whole)"), not myself personally. Like you, I really don't care what people call me.

Ask Eutrusca about it.

or rather, don't because he's never given a good reason as to why and we'll just see a stream of verbal diarreah come rushing out as us.

This is only one of the reasons why I love America ..the United States of America.....

What is the wierdest body part you have had stuck in the wierdest place

I could go on and on...but .....WTF ..??? Why bother ?

Ask someone who doesnt live here and just wants to get in ...THEY might give you a clue .

try one of the people marching around with the " illegal " immigrants ...ask them why they risk what ever JUST to get HERE then get thrown out or worse...

They most likely will give you a CLUE...

Me I like my MTV ....and the Sophrano's and my PS 2 ...my cars ...my computers...my ..life ....my job....and a few thousand other things that come with being a FREE man...in a FREE country..


And I have the second ammendment to the " CONSTITUTION " that makes sure no one can take it ..without a fight .

What more can you want .


Free to live

Free to die

as you see fit .

This is only one of the reasons why I love America ..the United Staes of America.....



I could go on and on...but .....WTF ..??? Why bother ?

Ask someone who doesnt live here and just wants to get in ...THEY might give you a clue .

try one of the people marching around with the " illegal " immigrants ...ask them why they risk what ever JUST to get HERE then get thrown out or worse...

They most likely will give you a CLUE...

Me I like my MTV ....and the Sophrano's and my PS 2 ...my cars ...my computers...my ..life ....my job....and a few thousand other things that come with being a FREE man...in a FREE country..


And I have the second ammendment to the " CONSTITUTION " that makes sure no one can take it ..without a fight .

What more can you want .


Free to live

Free to die

as you see fit .


Damned well said.

And I tend to think that Etrusuca found USians offensive because the people who came up with that here at NS are in the habit of denigrating the U.S., American citizens and pretty much anything to do with the U.S. He found it offensive because of the source.

My personal thought is; it's stupid and it sounds like something some namby-pamby PC rwit would come up with just tobe smug..

And it really looks like someone couldn't spell Asian worth a damn.

Gee... The obvious conclusion is that you haven't bothered to read the thread or you would have known that there is no consensus on continents. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: Yes, I've read the whole thread. I am going under these criteria:
* Getting a consensus in a forum is about as likely as getting an "I love the
President!" rally in Boston.
* There are 7 continents according to teachers (granted, I graduated high school in 1991, so it's been a little while) but: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe (goes to the Urals), North America and South America (seperated by the Panama Canal.) OF COURSE I'm going to post from my POV. Sheesh! :D

They're both from Oceania, aren't they?

Oceania? (checks Wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania
Looks pretty vague. I'd say that it is no more or less valid than my POV.

Once again, nothing astounds me more than the ignorance portrayed by US people about the history of our continent. It's like for them it doesn't exist, like the US is an isolated island floating in the middle of the ocean.

(chuckle) And nothing astounds me more than the disdain portrayed by non-US people about the history of our continent. It's like for them it doesn't exist, like south of the US is actually important.

See? I can flame too. Now make points or don't bother replying.

Not all the Spanish colonies were New Spain,

Name a few. Please, I'd love to hear about how the Pope didn't divide South America in half at the Treaty of Tordesillas.
(Sorry, it's been 10 years since I was going for my Bachelor's in History, so I don't recall the Pope's name).

Brazil was not New Portugal,

Oh? So how did they manage to move to Monarchy there in Napoleon overran the Iberian peninsula? Was Brazil not Portugese?

the English colonies were the English colonies,
Yep. And entirely in North America.

and America was the name given by Europeans to the entire continent.
Yes. Giving credit to Amerigo Vespuci over Columbus. So? It wasn't like the native tribes had a name for the place.
Are you saying that the Panama Canal does not divide the two landmasses, or that the cultures of North and South America aren't radically different? (Ie: Mexico NOT being a Bolivar revolution, etc)?

I mean, people, at least start reading some history on the colonization of the continent and the origin of its name before you start revealing your ignorance.

They're not part of the USA, but they're American States. Google Organization of American States.

Even a simpleton would understand I was differentiating between the 50 US states and states as defined as countries.
(like me flaming? there, I'll stop now).
Re: The Organization of American States. I fail to see your point. The Organization of American States comprises states from both North America and South America, much like NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
Calling it the OAS is no problem at all, just like not mentioning Europe or North America isn't a problem with NATO.

BTW: You *may* just want to stop to consider that there are different interpretations to history, and different points of view. Some people love Rome, some hate it. Some think Bolivar was a hero ala George Washington, other a womanizing drunkard. Either way, throwing barbs and calling someone ignorant is not acceptable in a civilized discussion.

I dont see how USian works either. I mean plenty of countries start with US. The official title of mexico on its money is estados unidos de mexico. So who knows what you talking about. I'll tell you how. Because there has been a precedent. Now stop bitchin bout callin in America and realize it doesnt matter.

Damned well said.

And I tend to think that Etrusuca found USians offensive because the people who came up with that here at NS are in the habit of denigrating the U.S., American citizens and pretty much anything to do with the U.S. He found it offensive because of the source.

My personal thought is; it's stupid and it sounds like something some namby-pamby PC rwit would come up with just tobe smug..

And it really looks like someone couldn't spell Asian worth a damn.
LOL! Exactly. :D

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.


If tomorrow all the things were gone,
I’d worked for all my life.
And I had to start again,
with just my children and my wife.

I’d thank my lucky stars,
to be livin here today.
‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
and they can’t take that away.

And I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

From the lakes of Minnesota,
to the hills of Tennessee.
Across the plains of Texas,
From sea to shining sea.

From Detroit down to Houston,
and New York to L.A.
Well there's pride in every American heart,
and its time we stand and say.

That I’m proud to be an American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

And I’m proud to be and American,
where at least I know I’m free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
‘Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.


Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just covering up

[chorus:]
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

I got in a little hometown jam
And so they put a rifle in my hands
Sent me off to Vietnam
To go and kill the yellow man

[chorus]

Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
I go down to see the V.A. man
He said "Son don't you understand"

[chorus]

I had a buddy at Khe Sahn
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone
He had a little girl in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years down the road
Nowhere to run, ain't got nowhere to go

I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

Bruce Springsteen

USA NUMBER ONE

Am I proud to be an American?

To tell the truth, I would have been 60 years ago, but not now. I am ashamed of most Americans for this reason:

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute chat with the average voter"
Sir Wiston Churchill

we should just " borrow" this from scotland ..sorry dudes ..God knows you live it and earned it ..And make it our new national motto..


" Nemo me impune lacessit "


I'm sure they would understand .


Or we could just put up the old

"BITE ME "

Flag...
Its not like anyone can do much about it antway.....and I fear that is our biggest problem..


No one wants our ability to crush and dispose just about anyone we please at any time we desire to be allowed in this world . History scares them...no other country with our power did not SCREW UP ..in recorded history .

But then again no other country is the United States and there is no place like it ...

So who knows ...we may let you all live after all..


Bwaaaaahahahahahahahahaahaha .

Am I proud to be an American?

To tell the truth, I would have been 60 years ago, but not now. I am ashamed of most Americans for this reason:

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute chat with the average voter"
Sir Wiston Churchill

man do YOU have a point...


But he also said ;


It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
Sir Winston Churchill

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: die usa lol only playin

man do YOU have a point...


But he also said ;
That includes socialism and theocratic fundamentalism.

me love usa

Bruce Springsteen
Springsteen isn't a veteran.

man do YOU have a point...


But he also said ;

I am not saying anything bad about democracy, Just that if people aren't concerned with how there lives work, they will eventually fail. Americans are becoming increasingly bored with governing themselves. Take The Roman Empire as an example.

Springsteen isn't a veteran.
I know. But it has a good beat. :p

And this guy said a mouthfull...


The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.
John F. Kennedy

along with this gem

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy



Wonder what he would have said about " hanging Chads " ?

And this guy said a mouthfull...
True.

In 'Nam we said it a slightly different way: Never give up, never surrender, never say "die," and take no mother-fucking prisoners! :D

I'm ashamed of a LOT of what this country has done. Period. And if you want to know why, I could give you a neverending list of reasons...

"nemo me impune lacessit"

Thats whats written around my Eagle on my arm . ( olive barnch & arrows /stars n stripes shield ) ...I honor the memory of My father and Brother who have gone before me ( Ranger / Marine ) ..;)

I only regret I have but one life to give for my country.

I'm ashamed of our current situation because our leaders have messed up a few times, but ultimately I am still very proud to be an American. Couldn't call myself a Fascist if I wasn't a nationalist.

The Unofficial National Anthem of the United States of America


While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer. "

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home

Irving Berlin

The unofficial national anthem of the United States was composed by an immigrant who left his home in Siberia for the USA when he was only five years old. The original version of "God Bless America" was written by Irving Berlin (1888-1989) during the summer of 1918 at Camp Upton, located in Yaphank, Long Island, for his Ziegfeld-style revue, Yip, Yip, Yaphank. "Make her victorious on land and foam, God Bless America..." ran the original lyrics. However, Irving decided that the solemn tone of "God Bless America" was somewhat out of keeping with the more comedic elements of the show, so the song was laid aside

The official National Anthem of the United States of America

Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'T is the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us as a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

America is not alone in having imbeciles amongst their populace.

I do not see how nationality makes a difference. Intelligence (or lack thereof) is beyond borders.

America is not alone in having imbeciles amongst their populace.

I do not see how nationality makes a difference. Intelligence (or lack thereof) is beyond borders.

True.

:rolleyes: Yes, I've read the whole thread. I am going under these criteria:
* Getting a consensus in a forum is about as likely as getting an "I love the
President!" rally in Boston.
* There are 7 continents according to teachers (granted, I graduated high school in 1991, so it's been a little while) but: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe (goes to the Urals), North America and South America (seperated by the Panama Canal.) OF COURSE I'm going to post from my POV. Sheesh! :D
So who died and made you the authority on how many continents there were and what they are? Please, enlighten me 'cause I'm dying to know.

I learned from my teacher that there were 6. I graduated high school in '95. So who's to say who's right? So while you may think you are the final word on continents, I will continue to point out that your points are as valid as anyone else's.

Sorry ..but songs ...no matter how great and revered cant top the examples of :

Millions of ILLEGAL immigrants marching peacfully for a chance to be part of this great country....and being if not openly accepted at respected by most EVERYONE...

The scumbag mousawi (or whatever ) NOT getting the death penalty because an AMERICAN jury of his peers thought he was too stupid to have anything to do with 9-11..except in a minor way....DESPITE the pressure and the visceral emotion during the trial...despite the desire to just hang his silly ass and be done with it ..despite the intense desire for good old revenge..the rule of law prevailed....although I wonder what the odds are of him surviving in prison ..IF ..he ever gets any...umm company ? Or just gets to hang with the rest of the guys... BUT we will see...chances are we have heard the last of him..

BTW France had their immigrants ...umm " demonstrate "...hehehehe

And France may want the goony bird to serve his time in a French jail...good luck ..

Ahhh I love it here ...

Damned well said.

And I tend to think that Etrusuca found USians offensive because the people who came up with that here at NS are in the habit of denigrating the U.S., American citizens and pretty much anything to do with the U.S. He found it offensive because of the source.

My personal thought is; it's stupid and it sounds like something some namby-pamby PC rwit would come up with just tobe smug..

And it really looks like someone couldn't spell Asian worth a damn.
Well, geeze. By that rationale, if I go on a rant on the stupid americans, it becomes a derogatory term and we can't use it anymore.

This argument coming from people saying PC has got to go... :rolleyes:

So who died and made you the authority on how many continents there were and what they are? Please, enlighten me 'cause I'm dying to know.

I learned from my teacher that there were 6. I graduated high school in '95. So who's to say who's right? So while you may think you are the final word on continents, I will continue to point out that your points are as valid as anyone else's.

Um... EC... please go back and read my post. I never said I was "the authority" or any such thing. Just that I believe that there are 7, and that is my position.
Exactly.

I am by no means proud to be an american. More like, ashamed. I wish I could live in Canada. I didn't choose to be born here, and I can't wait to get out.

Bye ! More pie for the rest of us .:p

I'm ashamed my country's leaders and what it's been doing lately. Other than that I'm fine with it.

I'm proud of America the country, ashamed of America the government.

Well, geeze. By that rationale, if I go on a rant on the stupid americans, it becomes a derogatory term and we can't use it anymore.

This argument coming from people saying PC has got to go... :rolleyes:

Heh, and you were one of the people I was thinking of when I wrote that. Go figure.

Not really, simply put, the derogatory part of that, I.E. the word "stupid", would be the offensive part, the only accurate part would calling us Americans.:cool:

Actually, I don't give a rats ass what you think of Americans, though I do wonder how many you've met. You have a bad habit of painting a massive circle around 300 some odd million people because of the actions of a tiny fraction of them. I could say some pretty rude things about Canadians after dealing with the BC side of the animation studio I work for, but I don't because unlike yourself, I don't assume that all Canadians are the same as that little group.

Heh, and you were one of the people I was thinking of when I wrote that. Go figure.

Not really, simply put, the derogatory part of that, I.E. the word "stupid", would be the offensive part, the only accurate part would calling us Americans.:cool:

Nice way to misread something.

Are you claiming there are no stupid Americans? EC is not saying he would be going on a rant about Americans, all of whom are stupid; but on a rant about that sector of US citizens who are stupid. If you wish to count yourself in that sector and be offended then be my guest.

As I was one of the posters who used USian, and I am by no stretch of the imagination anti-US, your rational simply does not work in my case.

(I am anti-Bush, but I do clearly separate the President from the Nation.)

Some Yanks think that they can menace whomever they want with their military, that's just no good. I'm more proud to be a citisen of my country, than to have been born here. (Canada=#1!) :)

MEGA POST

Mine eyes have seen the glory
Of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage
Where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning
Of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watchfires
Of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar
In the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence
By the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ
In burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with My contemners,
So with you My grace shall deal":
Let the Hero born of woman
Crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet
That shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men
Before His judgement seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him;
Be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies
Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom
That transfigures you and me;
As He died to make men holy,
Let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on


Yes! we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,

We will rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.

The Union forever, hurrah boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;

While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.




We are springing to the call of our brothers gone before,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,

And we'll fill the vacant ranks with a million freemen more,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.

The Union forever, hurrah boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;

While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.




We will welcome to our numbers the loyal true and brave,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,

And altho' he may be poor he shall never be a slave,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.

The Union forever, hurrah boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;

While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.




So we're springing to the call from the East and from the West,
Shouting the battle cry of freedom,

And we'll hurl the rebel crew from the land we love the best,*

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.

The Union forever, hurrah boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitor, up with the star;

While we rally round the flag, boys, rally once again,

Shouting the battle cry of freedom.




Sorry ..but songs ...no matter how great and revered cant top the examples of :

Millions of ILLEGAL immigrants marching peacfully for a chance to be part of this great country....and being if not openly accepted at respected by most EVERYONE...

The scumbag mousawi (or whatever ) NOT getting the death penalty because an AMERICAN jury of his peers thought he was too stupid to have anything to do with 9-11..except in a minor way....DESPITE the pressure and the visceral emotion during the trial...despite the desire to just hang his silly ass and be done with it ..despite the intense desire for good old revenge..the rule of law prevailed....although I wonder what the odds are of him surviving in prison ..IF ..he ever gets any...umm company ? Or just gets to hang with the rest of the guys... BUT we will see...chances are we have heard the last of him..

BTW France had their immigrants ...umm " demonstrate "...hehehehe

And France may want the goony bird to serve his time in a French jail...good luck ..

Ahhh I love it here ...

Woody Guthrie


This land is your land,
This land is my land,
From California
To the New York island,
From the Redwood Forest,
To the Gulf stream waters,
This land was made for you and me.
.
As I was walking,
That ribbon of highway,
I saw above me
That endless skyway,
I saw below me
That golden valley.
This land was made for you and me.
.
I've roamed and rambled
And I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me
.
The sun comes shining
As I was strolling
The wheat fields waving
And the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me
.
As I was walkin'
I saw a sign there
And that sign said no tress passin'
But on the other side
It didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!
.
In the squares of the city
In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office
I see my people
And some are grumblin'
And some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.
.
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking
That freedom highway
Nobody living can make me turn back
This land was made for you and me


I walked through a county court house square
On a park bench an old man was sitting there
I said, "Your court house is kinda run down"
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town"
I said, "Your flag pole has leaned a little bit
And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it"
He said, "Have a seat" and I sat down
"Is this the first time you've been in our little town?"

I said, "I think it is," he said, "I don't like to brag
But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag
You see, we got a little hole in that flag there
When Washington took it across the Delaware
And it got powder burned the night Francis Scott Key
Sat watchin' it writing "Say Can You See'
And it got a bad rip in New Orleans
With Packinham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams
And it almost fell at the Alamo
Beside the Texas flag but she waved on through

She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill
There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard and Bragg
And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag
On Flanders Field in World War I
She got a big hole from a Bertha Gun
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp and low by the time it was through
She was in Korea and Vietnam

She went where she was sent by her Uncle Sam
Native Americans, brown, yellow and white
All shed red blood for the Stars and Stripes
In her own good land here she's been abused
She's been burned, dishonored, denied and refused
And the government for which she stands
Has been scandalized throughout the land
And she's getting threadbare and waring thin
But she's in good shape for the shape she's in
'Cause she's been through the fire before
And I believe she can take a whole lot more

So we raise her up every morning, take her down every night
We don't let her touch the ground and fold her up tight
On second thought I do like to brag
'Cause I'm mighty proud of that Ragged Old Flag."

You're a grand old flag,
You're a high flying flag
And forever in peace may you wave.
You're the emblem of
The land I love.
The home of the free and the brave.
Ev'ry heart beats true
'neath the Red, White and Blue,
Where there's never a boast or brag.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot,
Keep your eye on the grand old flag


Dear Land of Hope, thy hope is crowned.
God make thee mightier yet!
On Sov'ran brows, beloved, renowned,
Once more thy crown is set.
Thine equal laws, by Freedom gained,
Have ruled thee well and long;
By Freedom gained, by Truth maintained,
Thine Empire shall be strong.

Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.

Thy fame is ancient as the days,
As Ocean large and wide:
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride:
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.

Remember Lexington
Remember the Alamo
Remember Pearl Harbor
Remember 911
Freedom is never free, it is always paid for by the blood of patriots
who went before us
There can be no freedom is if no picks up a gun

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream today.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe -- the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans -- born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage, and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty

To those new states whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom -- and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.

To those people in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required -- not because the Communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.

Finally, to those nations who would make themselves our adversary, we offer not a pledge but a request: that both sides begin anew the quest for peace, before the dark powers of destruction unleashed by science engulf all humanity in planned or accidental self-destruction

In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe
In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility -- I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it. And the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world, ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

Today we are committed to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free. And when Americans are sent to Viet-Nam or West Berlin, we do not ask for whites only.
Yes, as you know, the United States for more than a decade has been assisting the government, the people of Viet-Nam, to maintain their independence. Way back in December 23, 1950, we signed a military assistance agreement with France and with Indochina which at that time included Viet-Nam, Laos, and Cambodia. We also signed in December of 1951 an agreement directly with Viet-Nam.

Just 2 hours ago, allied air forces began an attack on military targets in Iraq and Kuwait. These attacks continue as I speak. Ground forces are not engaged.

This conflict started August 2nd when the dictator of Iraq invaded a small and helpless neighbor. Kuwait -- a member of the Arab League and a member of the United Nations -- was crushed; its people, brutalized. Five months ago, Saddam Hussein started this cruel war against Kuwait. Tonight, the battle has been joined.
We will not fail.
Our objectives are clear: Kuwait will once again be free.
it is our hope that Iraq will live as a peaceful and cooperative member of the family of nations
Some may ask: Why act now? Why not wait? The answer is clear: The world could wait no longer. Sanctions, though having some effect, showed no signs of accomplishing their objective
While the world waited for sanctions to work, Saddam Hussein systematically raped, pillaged, and plundered a tiny nation, no threat to his own. He subjected the people of Kuwait to unspeakable atrocities -- and among those maimed and murdered, innocent children.
While the world waited, while Saddam stalled, more damage was being done to the fragile economies of the Third World, emerging democracies of Eastern Europe, to the entire world, including to our own economy
While the world prayed for peace, Saddam prepared for war.
Saddam was warned over and over again to comply with the will of the United Nations. Saddam has arrogantly rejected all warnings
These countries had hoped the use of force could be avoided. Regrettably, we now believe that only force will make him leave.
We have no argument with the people of Iraq. Indeed, for the innocents caught in this conflict, I pray for their safety. Our goal is not the conquest of Iraq
Thomas Paine wrote many years ago: "These are the times that try men's souls.'' Those well-known words are so very true today. I prefer to think of peace, not war. I am convinced not only that we will prevail but that out of the horror of combat will come the recognition that no nation can stand against a world united.
No President can easily commit our sons and daughters to war. They are the Nation's finest. Ours is an all-volunteer force, magnificently trained, highly motivated. The troops know why they're there. And listen to what they say, for they've said it better than any President or Prime Minister ever could.

Listen to Hollywood Huddleston, Marine lance corporal. He says, "Let's free these people, so we can go home and be free again.''
The terrible crimes and tortures committed by Saddam's henchmen against the innocent are an affront to mankind and a challenge to the freedom of all.
Listen to Master Sergeant J.P. Kendall of the 82nd Airborne: "We're here for more than just the price of a gallon of gas. What we're doing is going to chart the future of the world for the next 100 years. It's better to deal with this guy now than 5 years from now.''

Yesterday, December 7th, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy -- the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

I believe that I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory, and our interests are in grave danger.

I am not now thinking of the loss of property involved, immense and serious as that is, but only of the wanton and wholesale destruction of the lives of non-combatants, men, women, and children, engaged in pursuits which have always, even in the darkest periods of modern history, been deemed innocent and legitimate. Property can be paid for; the lives of peaceful and innocent people cannot be.

The present German submarine warfare against commerce is a warfare against mankind.

It is war against all nations.

American ships have been sunk, American lives taken, in ways which it has stirred us very deeply to learn of, but the ships and people of other neutral and friendly nations have been sunk and overwhelmed in the waters in the same way. There has been no discrimination. The challenge is to all mankind.

Each nation must decide for itself how it will meet it. The choice we make for ourselves must be made with a moderation of counsel and temperateness of judgment befitting our character and our motives as a nation. We must put excited feeling away. Our motive will not be revenge or the victorious assertion of the physical might of the nation, but only the vindication of right, of human right, of which we are only a single champion.

I believe that it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures
The world is not static, and the status quo is not sacred. But we cannot allow changes in the status quo in violation of the Charter of the United Nations by such methods as coercion, or by such subterfuges as political infiltration. In helping free and independent nations to maintain their freedom, the United States will be giving effect to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
It would be an unspeakable tragedy if these countries, which have struggled so long against overwhelming odds, should lose that victory for which they sacrificed so much. Collapse of free institutions and loss of independence would be disastrous not only for them but for the world

Neither the United States of America nor the world community of nations can tolerate deliberate deception and offensive threats on the part of any nation, large or small. We no longer live in a world where only the actual firing of weapons represents a sufficient challenge to a nation's security to constitute maximum peril

There is sin and evil in the world, and we're enjoined by Scripture and the Lord Jesus to oppose it with all our might. Our nation, too, has a legacy of evil with which it must deal. The glory of this land has been its capacity for transcending the moral evils of our past. For example, the long struggle of minority citizens for equal rights, once a source of disunity and civil war is now a point of pride for all Americans. We must never go back. There is no room for racism, anti-Semitism, or other forms of ethnic and racial hatred in this country.
I urge you to speak out against those who would place the United States in a position of military and moral inferiority
So, in your discussions of the nuclear freeze proposals, I urge you to beware the temptation of pride --the temptation of blithely declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire, to simply call the arms race a giant misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong and good and evil.

Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts. The victims were in airplanes or in their offices: secretaries, business men and women, military and federal workers, moms and dads, friends and neighbors. Thousands of lives were suddenly ended by evil, despicable acts of terror
These acts of mass murder were intended to frighten our nation into chaos and retreat. But they have failed. Our country is strong.
A great people has been moved to defend a great nation. Terrorist attacks can shake the foundations of our biggest buildings, but they cannot touch the foundation of America
America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world. And no one will keep that light from shining. Today, our nation saw evil -- the very worst of human nature -- and we responded with the best of America.
This is a day when all Americans from every walk of life unite in our resolve for justice and peace. America has stood down enemies before, and we will do so this time. None of us will ever forget this day, yet we go forward to defend freedom and all that is good and just in our world.



Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

------------------------------------------------------------
The struggle to defend freedom both ours and that of others, is a repeating cycle. All these words qouted, should be familiar to all Americans. Because they were all spoken by American Presidents at one time or another. With the exception of the 2nd paragraph. I'll bet you can't figure out who said what.

Oceania? (checks Wiki) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania
Looks pretty vague. I'd say that it is no more or less valid than my POV.

Which is pretty vague too. Which would mean that considering North and South America as two distinct continents is pretty vague too, and that makes it ok for the people from all over the continent to be known as American.

(chuckle) And nothing astounds me more than the disdain portrayed by non-US people about the history of our continent. It's like for them it doesn't exist, like south of the US is actually important.

See? I can flame too. Now make points or don't bother replying.
If I had written something unsensical and without a point, like you just did, it would be a flame. As you're about to find out mine was not a flame, but pointing out a fact. And that is that you, and a lot of people that deny the fact that America is the name of a continent, know next to nothing about the history of the continent and they don't even care to improve that knowledge:

Name a few. Please, I'd love to hear about how the Pope didn't divide South America in half at the Treaty of Tordesillas.
Did I say that it was not divided? Did I say that there was no Portuguese colony. No. What you said was that the south was all New Spain and New Portugal, which is quite wrong:
Spain had the following Viceroyalties: New Spain, New Granada, Peru and Rio de la Plata; and the following General Captainships: Guatemala, Venezuela and Chile. As you see, it was not all New Spain. Each of those political divisions defined the countries they would become later.

Portugal divided their colony in America in just one way: Brazil. There was no New Portugal.

The treaty of Tordesillas divided not just South America, but the entire continent, as the extent of it was unknown and gave to Spain everything in the new lands (the name of America was not even in common use yet) west of a line 370 leagues west of Cape Verde.

So far you have made two basic, easily reseachable and fundamental errors: assuming there was a single political division of the Spanish colonies, and assuming that it was South America that was divided. And two less serious: the division was not in half (in fact it was cause of much friction between Portugal and Spain), and the name of the Portuguese colony was not New Portugal.

(Sorry, it's been 10 years since I was going for my Bachelor's in History, so I don't recall the Pope's name).
Alexander VI, the Borgia, although it was modified later. It's been 15 years since we touched the subject in high school.

Oh? So how did they manage to move to Monarchy there in Napoleon overran the Iberian peninsula? Was Brazil not Portugese?
Did I say it wasn't? Please show where. All I said was that it wasn't New Portugal.

Yep. And entirely in North America.
Not so. Britain had colonies all over the continent. The main colonies were in North America, of course, but there were also important ones in the Caribbean, South and Central America. They were all American colonies. Another error on your part.

Yes. Giving credit to Amerigo Vespuci over Columbus. So? It wasn't like the native tribes had a name for the place.
That's right. So the European name is used now. And that name was America, and was given to the entire continent and was in use even long before Jamestown.

Are you saying that the Panama Canal does not divide the two landmasses, or that the cultures of North and South America aren't radically different? (Ie: Mexico NOT being a Bolivar revolution, etc)?
It doesn't and they aren't. The Panama Canal is artificial and a completely arbitrary way to make a division. You could say that the continent is divided there as easily as at the border between Panama and Colombia or Panamá and Costa Rica, or any other line that you care to mention.
And they aren't radically different. Even if Mexico was not part of the Bolívar revolution, it keeps lots of ties and similarities with the other countries of America. And by heritage of the first settlers, the US has a lot of similarities with other countries in America. The entire continent shares a history of European colonialism, liberal philosophies which ended in independence movements, slavery and genocide, etc.
Even if the entire US consisted only of New England, they would be no more different than Britain and Spain.
There are cultural differences, sure, but nothing radical. If you travel to Chile or Brazil, you'll feel right at home after some getting used to the language and food. I've had no trouble whatsoever adapting to Canada, and most people from the rest of the continent have no problem either (except for the winter)

Even a simpleton would understand I was differentiating between the 50 US states and states as defined as countries.
(like me flaming? there, I'll stop now).
No, you were saying they couldn't be called American because they were not like the 50 US states. To which I responded that although they are not part of the USA they can be called, and indeed are called, American states:

Re: The Organization of American States. I fail to see your point. The Organization of American States comprises states from both North America and South America, much like NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
The point is that the "American" part of the name is a completely acceptable and correct way to refer to the countries in the continent, and therefore, its citizens.

BTW: You *may* just want to stop to consider that there are different interpretations to history, and different points of view. Some people love Rome, some hate it. Some think Bolivar was a hero ala George Washington, other a womanizing drunkard. Either way, throwing barbs and calling someone ignorant is not acceptable in a civilized discussion.
Pointing out the ignorance when this is a sticking point preventing civilized discussion is totally acceptable in a civilized discussion. Keep in mind that I didn't call you a moron, an imbecil, stupid or any of that, and I don't think you are; but that you lack basic knowledge about the continent's history, some of which I clarify in lines above.

It's not the interpretation I have a problem with, but the not knowing simple stuff that is basic to understand why America is the name of the entire continent and how the peoples of this continent consider themselves American. If you don't know this basic things, how can you expect to put together a good argument?

That's not flaming, it's just calling things by their name. The good thing about being an ignorant is that it's not a permanent condition. We all are ignorant, at something or other, but can get knowledge if we care to.

Nice way to misread something.

Are you claiming there are no stupid Americans? EC is not saying he would be going on a rant about Americans, all of whom are stupid; but on a rant about that sector of US citizens who are stupid. If you wish to count yourself in that sector and be offended then be my guest.

As I was one of the posters who used USian, and I am by no stretch of the imagination anti-US, your rational simply does not work in my case.

(I am anti-Bush, but I do clearly separate the President from the Nation.)

1) I didn't even hint at that. I know plenty of stupid fucks here in the U.S. Especially the row of jackasses doing 40mph in front of me on the damned freeway. Read what I said. I said he has had the habit of doing so. past tense, I wasn't referring to what was being said now, but at other points in the past. EC has done so in several threads in the past. Which is exactly what I was referring to.

2) Not how I saw it reading other things you've posted, but that comes down to interpretation I suppose.

3) Good for you, that just means you are more level-headed than some. For the record, I am anti-Bush, anti-Clinton, anti-Bush, anti-Reagan, anti-Carter, anti-Ford, anti-Nixon, and anti-Johnson. And more than likely, anti-Establishment.

The struggle to defend freedom both ours and that of others, is a repeating cycle. All these words qouted, should be familiar to all Americans. Because they were all spoken by American Presidents at one time or another. With the exception of the 2nd paragraph. I'll bet you can't figure out who said what.
I hereby award you with the Award for Least Content to Words Ratio in the History of Mankind with special mention for Pointlessness and use of Cut & Paste.

Good. Then lets annex them and make them real American states.
They wouldn' have to worry about right or left dictators then.

Good. Then lets annex them and make them real American states.
They wouldn' have to worry about right or left dictators then.

They are real American States. They are not members of your particular union, that is all.

They are real American States. They are not members of your particular union, that is all.
That can be fixed. US constitution guarantees to every state in America a Republican government. If they don't have republican govts, it is our duty to use all means necessary to make sure they get one. Including invasion and annexation.

That can be fixed. US constitution guarantees to every state in America a Republican government. If they don't have republican govts, it is our duty to use all means necessary to make sure they get one. Including invasion and annexation.
Does the Consitution say "America" or "United States of America"?

That can be fixed. US constitution guarantees to every state in America a Republican government. If they don't have republican govts, it is our duty to use all means necessary to make sure they get one. Including invasion and annexation.

No, the US Constitution guarantees every state that is a member of the United States a republican government. I would say "You must be joking" but I know you're not.

1) I didn't even hint at that. I know plenty of stupid fucks here in the U.S. Especially the row of jackasses doing 40mph in front of me on the damned freeway. Read what I said. I said he has had the habit of doing so. past tense, I wasn't referring to what was being said now, but at other points in the past. EC has done so in several threads in the past. Which is exactly what I was referring to.
Fair enough. I was basing my reaction on that one post.

2) Not how I saw it reading other things you've posted, but that comes down to interpretation I suppose.
I can be critical where criticism is, in my view, deserved. Thus I can criticise the US administration for some things. I can also criticise some aspects of US culture and attitudes. However this does not make me opposed to, or a detractor of, the USA. I do the same witrh respect to the UK, France, Brazil, etc. If it is wrong, it is wrong, the nationality is irrelevant. WHat I have found is that there is a tendency of many, but not all by a long way, US based posters to be over defensive. No nation is perfect, why then should any criticism of something from the USA be seen as being anti- USA?

3) Good for you, that just means you are more level-headed than some. For the record, I am anti-Bush, anti-Clinton, anti-Bush, anti-Reagan, anti-Carter, anti-Ford, anti-Nixon, and anti-Johnson. And more than likely, anti-Establishment.
Fair enough. I do not know enough about the policies and actions of say Carter to be able to form an opinion. I am politically opposed to anything more than a minimal government, and in this I share common ground with many US citizens. However I judge individual politicains in the context of the government they are part of. I dislike the UK labour party, for example, but I can respect and admire Gordon Brown whilst at the same time detesting Tony Bair.

I hereby award you with the Award for Least Content to Words Ratio in the History of Mankind with special mention for Pointlessness and use of Cut & Paste.
Actually it's not done but I'm retiring for now. That was too much work to look all those up.
Of course someone like yourself could never appreciate the importance of beliefs and statements to REAL americans such as myself, Aaronthepissedoff, Eutrusca, and other real americans on this forum.
The post is to remind them of what America is, and why we must fight.

You wouldn't understand any of that though. And it would be totally pointless for the post to be targeted at you.

To non American posters and American liberal bush hating posters, America is building a democratic government in Iraq and that makes America evil. The American people didn't vote Bush out in 2004, again something the anti americans claim makes America evil.

Does the Consitution say "America" or "United States of America"?
It can be fixed by incorporating the rest of the Western Hemisphere into the United States.

No, the US Constitution guarantees every state that is a member of the United States a republican government. I would say "You must be joking" but I know you're not.
True but we can make them members of the United States.

Absolutely not. I decided this when the Supreme Court gave the gov't the ability to confiscate private property so that it can be made somebody else's private property. When I heard that, I said aloud to myself that I am no longer proud to be an American, and nothing has changed since then, except that I've decided there a lot of other reasons to be ashamed of this country, including its:

Spending money on Zionists
Hypocrisy regarding Iran
Support for crooked regimes
Unwillingness to educate children
Demanding respect without paying it

Because of this, I am reaching out my tendrils and researching my emigration opportunities after I finish seamanship school. If I do move, I won't make any effort to hide my previous nationality -- As long as I avoid helping the government as much as possible, there is no reason at all for me to be ashamed of having been born in Maryland.

+1

True but we can make them members of the United States.

Forcing states to join our Union would completely destroy the purpose of having the Union. States should only join of their own free will, and bringing them in by force would be a monstrous crime not only to the state being forced in but to the states which joined willingly.

The whole purpose of this exercise is to allow people to live as they wish. Forcing them to join our Union does not accomplish this. I do agree that if someone wants in we should do our best to accomodate them, but if and only if they want in willingly.

edit:

Whittier, you seem to be of the opinion that deep inside everyone in the world is a flag waving, red white and blue blooded American just dying to get out. I used to think the same thing when I was younger, but then I actually travelled overseas. I can assure you that it is simply not the case. From what I can tell you're in Iraq right now, and I'd have thought that would make you understand that not everyone lives or even wants to live exactly as we do. Yes, democracy is a good thing, but it's not something you can impose.

People have to want it for themselves, you can't give it away. I honestly believe that most Iraqis want democracy, but they have to be the ones to win it for their country, not us. The exact same thing follows for Latin America. I could imagine helping a democratic movement in a country, but we'd have to support the democratic choice of those people, even if they choose things that we may disagree with, such as a socialist government or a government that is influenced by Sharia. If that's what the people want, that's what they want.

Of course someone like yourself could never appreciate the importance of beliefs and statements to REAL americans such as myself, Aaronthepissedoff, Eutrusca, and other real americans on this forum.
The post is to remind them of what America is, and why we must fight.
Which makes it the much sadder to consider that someone who claims to have these words in such high regard will just throw them out of context like a bunch of confetti with no other purpose but propaganda.
You've taken the passion and the spirit out of the words, any one can google and cut and paste; but to actually understand what's behind those words and what they stand or stood for is what's important:

To non American posters and American liberal bush hating posters, America is building a democratic government in Iraq and that makes America evil. The American people didn't vote Bush out in 2004, again something the anti americans claim makes America evil.
See? No understanding.

I'm proud to live in a country where even vice presidents have the freedom to shoot other people. God Bless America!

It can be fixed by incorporating the rest of the Western Hemisphere into the United States.
Please do so. In fact, one of my great hopes is that such a union takes place in the future. I wonder how the nearly 400 million new people will affect political decisions and social development when finally joined together in a democratic union. At least instead of having important decisions imposed on us, we'll get a chance to vote and modify them in a way that fits us best.

Actually it's not done but I'm retiring for now. That was too much work to look all those up.
Of course someone like yourself could never appreciate the importance of beliefs and statements to REAL americans such as myself, Aaronthepissedoff, Eutrusca, and other real americans on this forum.
The post is to remind them of what America is, and why we must fight.

I have news for you pally. I'm a REAL American. I was born and raised here, I served my country for 22 years in the United States Air Force. Just because I don't like the President and think he is the worst thing to happen to this country since Herbert Hoover does not invalidate my citizenship or my service.

George W. Bush, you...the talking heads on AM Radio can't take that away from me. So kiss my butt, big boy and live with the FACT that I earned my right to speak my mind.


You wouldn't understand any of that though. And it would be totally pointless for the post to be targeted at you.

Understand? What is there for this person to understand? America does not live in a vacuum and every act we commit in the world be it rightous or not affects the rest of the world. You seem to be all for globalization until another country or it's citizens dare speak out against the United States, and then we are the imperial power with the undisputed right to make unilateral decisions without consulting or giving any respect to the rest of the citizens of this planet who just might have to live with the consequences of any stupid, foolish, arrogant and brain-dead decisions our current President might make.


To non American posters and American liberal bush hating posters, America is building a democratic government in Iraq and that makes America evil. The American people didn't vote Bush out in 2004, again something the anti americans claim makes America evil.

Bullcrap. The current government in Iraq is not democratic and it never will be. Democratic implies representation for all, and the last I checked the past two elections you and your buddies have touted have resulted in a Shia monopoly.

If you wish to debate me, roll the dice and take your chances. But I will be immersed in sheep dip if I stand for you holding that smug, superior attitude over me and anyone who dares question your almighty wisdom.

I'm no complainer, your guy won. But I retain the right to call him an immoral, murdering scumbag whose decisions are about as un-Constitutional as they come. I guarantee you thirty-two years ago this guy would have been tossed out on his ear faster than Nixon got it. It is a damn shame the Republican party is loaded with gutless cowards who sit there and grimace every time this guy pulls some of the stunts he does, but refuse to challenge this guy in a meaningful way.

His biggest lie to date is his campaign promise to bring honor and integrity back to the White House.

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.

then move some where else...or go into politics and be a whore.

not to be nasty,but you just pandering to the left to gain favor,your an american or you are not...if your unhappy with the path your country is taking,get involved(one of the few countries you can at least try...try going against the grain in serbia or russia)

so stop whining and move to the utopia you envision or get off your ass and work to change things,at least you have a shot in the bad ole usa!

i know i love my country as probably everyone else does on this forum,but if your a us citizen..you got a shot at change.....crying about how bad your country is ..is...simply pathetic...go somewhere else.

if not,fight to make a difference...or your nothing better then a whiney little bitch that dont deserve to be here to start with..or dont they teach history anymore?

i love my country...period...i love everyone actually...but it starts at home...crying may gain you favor with our enemies/detractors....but if you care..you will stand up/man up and be heard about how you feel.

go to law school and screw the ashats that ae screwing you...you can at least try here..good luck in iran/somalia/russia/palestine/etc etc.

For all the other Americans out there... Are you proud to be an American? If you leave the country, will you tell people you are American?

I am truely embarrased by most of my countrymen.

Yeah, I'm proud to be an American. And I'll tell anybody, even if they have a gun to my head. (Bold words, I know, hopefully I won't ever have to test them.) But I agree with you. Other people in this country are dragging it down. Ari Fleischer stated before the election that the President feels that the American way of life is god-given. By way of life he was talking about expending more natural resources and energy more than anybody else per capita. And then we re-elected this guy (Bush). It says to me that most Americans can't grow up. They're like a teenager with destructive habits because of their sense of entitlement. This sense of entitlement extends to almost every aspect of American society including litigation, social security, etc. Americans won't grow up until their sense of entitlemen leads to their collective crashing (like a teenage drug-addict). I don't want to be here when that happens, and there isn't really anything I can do about it. Many Americans were raised with incorrect values, and if they believe their narcissism is god-sanctioned then who am I to tell them otherwise?
On the other hand, even with recent civil liberties breaches, we still enjoy more civil rights than most so-called "free" nations. And I don't speak the languages of the few nations that beat us out for civil rights, so that's a problem, but it's surmountable. Well anyway, I'm conflicted, in case you couldn't tell. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the world doesn't want America to "crash and burn" either, and are trying to gently coax us into realizing that we have to wake up and face the music. We are not "special" like our elementary school teachers told us. But even though we're not special, I still have a strong sense of heritage and patriotism, so becoming a citizen of another country would be problematic emotionally.

of course, but i hate the government

I have news for you pally. I'm a REAL American. I was born and raised here, I served my country for 22 years in the United States Air Force. Just because I don't like the President and think he is the worst thing to happen to this country since Herbert Hoover does not invalidate my citizenship or my service.

George W. Bush, you...the talking heads on AM Radio can't take that away from me. So kiss my butt, big boy and live with the FACT that I earned my right to speak my mind.



Understand? What is there for this person to understand? America does not live in a vacuum and every act we commit in the world be it rightous or not affects the rest of the world. You seem to be all for globalization until another country or it's citizens dare speak out against the United States, and then we are the imperial power with the undisputed right to make unilateral decisions without consulting or giving any respect to the rest of the citizens of this planet who just might have to live with the consequences of any stupid, foolish, arrogant and brain-dead decisions our current President might make.



Bullcrap. The current government in Iraq is not democratic and it never will be. Democratic implies representation for all, and the last I checked the past two elections you and your buddies have touted have resulted in a Shia monopoly.

If you wish to debate me, roll the dice and take your chances. But I will be immersed in sheep dip if I stand for you holding that smug, superior attitude over me and anyone who dares question your almighty wisdom.

I'm no complainer, your guy won. But I retain the right to call him an immoral, murdering scumbag whose decisions are about as un-Constitutional as they come. I guarantee you thirty-two years ago this guy would have been tossed out on his ear faster than Nixon got it. It is a damn shame the Republican party is loaded with gutless cowards who sit there and grimace every time this guy pulls some of the stunts he does, but refuse to challenge this guy in a meaningful way.

His biggest lie to date is his campaign promise to bring honor and integrity back to the White House.

I guess you choose to ignore the fact the current fighting is between the Sunni's that do not want to join the new government and those that do .
It's a shame that you must disrespect the hard working ..brave as all hell ..Iraqi's who choose to Join the Democratic proccess instead of kill each other.
A Democracy / Republic is not formed overnight. Give the Iraqi's credit for the bravery they have shown and the honest desire they have to join the " FREE " world .
no one is foolish enough to think a stable government in Iraq is doable without the Sunni to participate.. They are working on it...slowly but surely..
those brave people should be honored and respected for what they face and overcome every day and will PROVE to the rest of the world more than capable of becoming a great and Democratic.. (in the style THEY CHOOSE )country and a regional power in their own right. and it will be worth every drop of blood it cost .
they have paid dearly for " Liberty " I cant see them throwing it away .

Actually, they're not. We're either North or South Americans. Calling a Bolivian an American because he lives in South American makes as much sense as calling a Kiwi (New Zealander) an Australian.

They're both from Oceania, aren't they?
Which is pretty vague too. Which would mean that considering North and South America as two distinct continents is pretty vague too, and that makes it ok for the people from all over the continent to be known as American.

I don't understand what you are saying. My point was that calling South Americans "Americans" makes as much sense as calling New Zealanders "Australians". You counter with Oceania as being a continent. I look it up, decide it's kind of vague, but go with it. It still doesn't do anything about the original point. Are Australia, New Zealand, etc all in Oceania? Well, sure/maybe. But that still doesn't counter the proposition of calling New Zealanders "Australians".

If I had written something unsensical and without a point, like you just did, it would be a flame. As you're about to find out mine was not a flame, but pointing out a fact. And that is that you, and a lot of people that deny the fact that America is the name of a continent, know next to nothing about the history of the continent and they don't even care to improve that knowledge:

"Once again, nothing astounds me more than the ignorance portrayed by US people about the history of our continent."
-- That is most certainly a flame.

Did I say that it was not divided? Did I say that there was no Portuguese colony. No. What you said was that the south was all New Spain and New Portugal, which is quite wrong:
Spain had the following Viceroyalties: New Spain, New Granada, Peru and Rio de la Plata; and the following General Captainships: Guatemala, Venezuela and Chile. As you see, it was not all New Spain. Each of those political divisions defined the countries they would become later.

Still waiting for a non-Spanish or Portugese South American colony.
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/colony5a.htm
"Spain had two great Viceroyalties in the New World. One was named New Spain. It included all the Spanish provinces north of the Isthmus of Panama. The other was Peru which covered all of Spanish South America except the coast of Venezuela.
Technically Spanish Colonial America (including Mexico) was New Spain. "

...ok, I acknowledge I didn't know that Peru was seperate from New Spain, I thought New Spain was the term for the whole thing.

Portugal divided their colony in America in just one way: Brazil. There was no New Portugal.

A map from 1814:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:1:./temp/~ammem_63Jv::
If you zoom the lower right corner, you can clearly see "A Map of Brazil, now called New Portugal".

The treaty of Tordesillas divided not just South America, but the entire continent, as the extent of it was unknown and gave to Spain everything in the new lands (the name of America was not even in common use yet) west of a line 370 leagues west of Cape Verde.

Exactly. So how can South Americans claim to be Americans? As I said two posts ago: they're not in the USA, they are living in states within South America. Not one of the South American countries has the word "America" it's name. Not Americans, ala your "New Spain" example.

So far you have made two basic, easily reseachable and fundamental errors: assuming there was a single political division of the Spanish colonies, and assuming that it was South America that was divided. And two less serious: the division was not in half (in fact it was cause of much friction between Portugal and Spain), and the name of the Portuguese colony was not New Portugal.

See map above. New Portugal. Also, the division was also taking into account the Portugese presence in Africa.

Did I say it wasn't? Please show where. All I said was that it wasn't New Portugal.

And I just refuted it above. :D

Not so. Britain had colonies all over the continent. The main colonies were in North America, of course, but there were also important ones in the Caribbean, South and Central America. They were all American colonies. Another error on your part.

The Caribbean is part of Central America, which is part of North America in my geography. I assume you mean Belize (nee British Hondouras) and Jamaica and other islands. However, none of these is south of the canal.

That's right. So the European name is used now. And that name was America, and was given to the entire continent and was in use even long before Jamestown.

Yep. And the French and English were fishing off the waters of Canada long before Jamestown, too. But as far as everything I've ever read, it was always referred to as "The Americas". Heck, the BBC still does so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/ -- And "The Americas" means North and South.

It doesn't and they aren't. The Panama Canal is artificial and a completely arbitrary way to make a division. You could say that the continent is divided there as easily as at the border between Panama and Colombia or Panamá and Costa Rica, or any other line that you care to mention.

Yep. But what you've ignorantly ignored (see how annoying that word can be?) is that we are both speaking from our own (different!) educations, how we learned the world.

And they aren't radically different. Even if Mexico was not part of the Bolívar revolution, it keeps lots of ties and similarities with the other countries of America.

Yep. We Americans have about 6 million of them here without papers right now. You might have seen them marching on TV.

But you mistype: it is similar to America, not the other countries in America. America is made up of 50 states and a few territories.
South America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_america) has 13 countries
and Central America (part of North America) has 7 countries.

And by heritage of the first settlers, the US has a lot of similarities with other countries in America. The entire continent shares a history of European colonialism, liberal philosophies which ended in independence movements, slavery and genocide, etc.

That's the first thing you've said that I can agree with totally.

Even if the entire US consisted only of New England, they would be no more different than Britain and Spain.
There are cultural differences, sure, but nothing radical. If you travel to Chile or Brazil, you'll feel right at home after some getting used to the language and food. I've had no trouble whatsoever adapting to Canada, and most people from the rest of the continent have no problem either (except for the winter)

Yeah, but London is to me just like being in Boston (with worse cooks and odd money, but still). LA is more foreign to me than that.
I consider North and South America to be very different. The cultures of England, Spain, Germany, France are also quite different, as are their languages.

No, you were saying they couldn't be called American because they were not like the 50 US states. To which I responded that although they are not part of the USA they can be called, and indeed are called, American states:
The point is that the "American" part of the name is a completely acceptable and correct way to refer to the countries in the continent, and therefore, its citizens.

Which is clearly false, or at least wooly thinking.
The whole planet calls citizens of the US "Americans". When I go back to Slovakia and we discuss Chavez or Castro, NO ONE would even consider calling him an American.

So what is the point of calling Peru and American state? Unless it has a star on Old Glory, it clearly isn't. It's a country of its own. In South America.

Further:
I've never heard a Canadian call himself an American.
I've never had anyone I've worked with (Salvadorans, Mexicans, Columbians, etc) ever say they were Americans unless they were citizens of the USA.

Pointing out the ignorance when this is a sticking point preventing civilized discussion is totally acceptable in a civilized discussion. Keep in mind that I didn't call you a moron, an imbecil, stupid or any of that, and I don't think you are; but that you lack basic knowledge about the continent's history, some of which I clarify in lines above.

Surely you've got to be kidding. You're being condenscending to the extreme, and are doing nothing other than declaring yourself an expert that cannot be questioned. ROTFLMAO.

It's not the interpretation I have a problem with, but the not knowing simple stuff that is basic to understand why America is the name of the entire continent and how the peoples of this continent consider themselves American. If you don't know this basic things, how can you expect to put together a good argument?

The majority of Americans (real, 50 state Americans) do not consider you Americans. Nor do most people in the world. There is only one America: The United States of. There only other one was the Confederate States of, and that only lasted half a decade.
There has not been, nor (given the squabbles, especially between the ABC countries) a Latin States of America, or any other such thing.

If you don't know this basic thing, how can you expect to put together a good arguement?

That's not flaming, it's just calling things by their name. The good thing about being an ignorant is that it's not a permanent condition. We all are ignorant, at something or other, but can get knowledge if we care to.

Wow. You're saying that agreeing with you is to become educated?
I'm deeply impressed with your sense of being right. :rolleyes:

Heh, and you were one of the people I was thinking of when I wrote that. Go figure.

Not really, simply put, the derogatory part of that, I.E. the word "stupid", would be the offensive part, the only accurate part would calling us Americans.:cool:

Actually, I don't give a rats ass what you think of Americans, though I do wonder how many you've met. You have a bad habit of painting a massive circle around 300 some odd million people because of the actions of a tiny fraction of them. I could say some pretty rude things about Canadians after dealing with the BC side of the animation studio I work for, but I don't because unlike yourself, I don't assume that all Canadians are the same as that little group.
You completely misread my reply.

Your argument was: USian is a derogatory term because those who use it are usually critical of the States.

My argument: by that logic, if those same people use 'American' instead of 'USian' it becomes derogatory since they are critical of the States. Therefore 'American' cannot be used either.

Your counter: No. Because that's what we're called.

My next counter: Well, you are called USian too. So we can use it now, right?


another thing I found funny in your post is that you accuse those who agree to PC to use 'USian'. Which makes you opposed to PC, in my estimation. Those opposed to PC are usually those with the argument 'so what if I use a derogatory term. Live with it. You don'T have the right to be offended.' and then you insist we don't use 'USian' because it's offensive. Welcome to the PC side...

As for me painting the UnitedStatesian with a large brush, I believe that if you go and read my posting history you'll see i've been critical of the government and rarely used generalizations. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good argument.

I have news for you pally. I'm a REAL American. I was born and raised here, I served my country for 22 years in the United States Air Force. Just because I don't like the President and think he is the worst thing to happen to this country since Herbert Hoover does not invalidate my citizenship or my service.

George W. Bush, you...the talking heads on AM Radio can't take that away from me. So kiss my butt, big boy and live with the FACT that I earned my right to speak my mind.



Understand? What is there for this person to understand? America does not live in a vacuum and every act we commit in the world be it rightous or not affects the rest of the world. You seem to be all for globalization until another country or it's citizens dare speak out against the United States, and then we are the imperial power with the undisputed right to make unilateral decisions without consulting or giving any respect to the rest of the citizens of this planet who just might have to live with the consequences of any stupid, foolish, arrogant and brain-dead decisions our current President might make.



Bullcrap. The current government in Iraq is not democratic and it never will be. Democratic implies representation for all, and the last I checked the past two elections you and your buddies have touted have resulted in a Shia monopoly.

If you wish to debate me, roll the dice and take your chances. But I will be immersed in sheep dip if I stand for you holding that smug, superior attitude over me and anyone who dares question your almighty wisdom.

I'm no complainer, your guy won. But I retain the right to call him an immoral, murdering scumbag whose decisions are about as un-Constitutional as they come. I guarantee you thirty-two years ago this guy would have been tossed out on his ear faster than Nixon got it. It is a damn shame the Republican party is loaded with gutless cowards who sit there and grimace every time this guy pulls some of the stunts he does, but refuse to challenge this guy in a meaningful way.

His biggest lie to date is his campaign promise to bring honor and integrity back to the White House.
Actually you are wrong about the Iraqi government. It is not only democratic but inclusive. It is not a Shia monopoly as you call it. There are a good many Kurds and Sunnis in the government.
And a government does not have to represent everyone in order to be a democracy. Government serves its own citizens not forigners.

Likewise, the American government represents American citizens, not the immigrants from other lands.

I don't understand what you are saying. My point was that calling South Americans "Americans" makes as much sense as calling New Zealanders "Australians". You counter with Oceania as being a continent. I look it up, decide it's kind of vague, but go with it. It still doesn't do anything about the original point. Are Australia, New Zealand, etc all in Oceania? Well, sure/maybe. But that still doesn't counter the proposition of calling New Zealanders "Australians".



"Once again, nothing astounds me more than the ignorance portrayed by US people about the history of our continent."
-- That is most certainly a flame.



Still waiting for a non-Spanish or Portugese South American colony.
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/colony5a.htm
"Spain had two great Viceroyalties in the New World. One was named New Spain. It included all the Spanish provinces north of the Isthmus of Panama. The other was Peru which covered all of Spanish South America except the coast of Venezuela.
Technically Spanish Colonial America (including Mexico) was New Spain. "

...ok, I acknowledge I didn't know that Peru was seperate from New Spain, I thought New Spain was the term for the whole thing.



A map from 1814:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:1:./temp/~ammem_63Jv::
If you zoom the lower right corner, you can clearly see "A Map of Brazil, now called New Portugal".



Exactly. So how can South Americans claim to be Americans? As I said two posts ago: they're not in the USA, they are living in states within South America. Not one of the South American countries has the word "America" it's name. Not Americans, ala your "New Spain" example.



See map above. New Portugal. Also, the division was also taking into account the Portugese presence in Africa.



And I just refuted it above. :D



The Caribbean is part of Central America, which is part of North America in my geography. I assume you mean Belize (nee British Hondouras) and Jamaica and other islands. However, none of these is south of the canal.



Yep. And the French and English were fishing off the waters of Canada long before Jamestown, too. But as far as everything I've ever read, it was always referred to as "The Americas". Heck, the BBC still does so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/ -- And "The Americas" means North and South.



Yep. But what you've ignorantly ignored (see how annoying that word can be?) is that we are both speaking from our own (different!) educations, how we learned the world.



Yep. We Americans have about 6 million of them here without papers right now. You might have seen them marching on TV.

But you mistype: it is similar to America, not the other countries in America. America is made up of 50 states and a few territories.
South America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_america) has 13 countries
and Central America (part of North America) has 7 countries.



That's the first thing you've said that I can agree with totally.



Yeah, but London is to me just like being in Boston (with worse cooks and odd money, but still). LA is more foreign to me than that.
I consider North and South America to be very different. The cultures of England, Spain, Germany, France are also quite different, as are their languages.



Which is clearly false, or at least wooly thinking.
The whole planet calls citizens of the US "Americans". When I go back to Slovakia and we discuss Chavez or Castro, NO ONE would even consider calling him an American.

So what is the point of calling Peru and American state? Unless it has a star on Old Glory, it clearly isn't. It's a country of its own. In South America.

Further:
I've never heard a Canadian call himself an American.
I've never had anyone I've worked with (Salvadorans, Mexicans, Columbians, etc) ever say they were Americans unless they were citizens of the USA.



Surely you've got to be kidding. You're being condenscending to the extreme, and are doing nothing other than declaring yourself an expert that cannot be questioned. ROTFLMAO.



The majority of Americans (real, 50 state Americans) do not consider you Americans. Nor do most people in the world. There is only one America: The United States of. There only other one was the Confederate States of, and that only lasted half a decade.
There has not been, nor (given the squabbles, especially between the ABC countries) a Latin States of America, or any other such thing.

If you don't know this basic thing, how can you expect to put together a good arguement?



Wow. You're saying that agreeing with you is to become educated?
I'm deeply impressed with your sense of being right. :rolleyes:
All the Canadians, Mexicans and Guatamalans I know, don't refer themselves as Americans. They call themselves Canadians, Mexicans, or Guatamalans.

I guess you choose to ignore the fact the current fighting is between the Sunni's that do not want to join the new government and those that do .
It's a shame that you must disrespect the hard working ..brave as all hell ..Iraqi's who choose to Join the Democratic proccess instead of kill each other.

<snort> Ignore? I have nothing but respect for those people. MY disgust is purely aimed at the political opportunists who use Iraq as an excuse to push a set of unrealistic policies that have no bearing on how the world works.


A Democracy / Republic is not formed overnight. Give the Iraqi's credit for the bravery they have shown and the honest desire they have to join the " FREE " world .

I give them credit everyday, and I feel sorry for them too. Here we are three years later and they average four hours of uninterrupted power per day, their infrastructure is a shambles, and all of that reconstruction money paid to Halliburton/Kellogg, Brown and Root and others have been for nowt. It is utterly shameful the conditions the BRAVE IRAQI people are forced to endure because some asshole with a no-bid contract is robbing them and our government blind.

You cannot form a Democracy/Democratic Republic in conditions akin to what is going on there. Plus you simply cannot FORCE a set of ideas onto people who DON'T WANT IT. Until the Iraqi people come to this idea on their own, without being pressed by Washington or anyone else into it we are not going to realistically succeed.

The only construction project that is anywhere near meeting the deadline is the American Embassy...odd that.


no one is foolish enough to think a stable government in Iraq is doable without the Sunni to participate.. They are working on it...slowly but surely..
those brave people should be honored and respected for what they face and overcome every day and will PROVE to the rest of the world more than capable of becoming a great and Democratic.. (in the style THEY CHOOSE )country and a regional power in their own right. and it will be worth every drop of blood it cost .
they have paid dearly for " Liberty " I cant see them throwing it away .

How many times must you be told? Honoring and respecting is NOT the issue here, it never has been. When I was in the First Gulf War we went in with a clearly defined set of goals, a realistic war plan with enough firepower to succeed and a clear plan for post war operations, and most importantly we had a withdrawal plan with a clear timetable and benchmarks that had to be hit.

With this guy and his group of neoconservative idiots we have NOTHING but cute slogans, banners on aircraft carriers, and LIES.

This war is clearly not worth the cost of lives, American and Iraqi. The sad part is that it could have been worth it. If only Bush had listened to General Anthony Zinni whose force recommendations were based on SOUND military doctrine, instead Rumsfeld and Bush ran one hell of a Marine out. They toddled out poor General Powell whose only mistake was being the good soldier and not fighting hard enough for his beliefs, he had to know he was presenting a false case to the UN and the people of the United States. Any General officer who did not share the mad vision of Wolfowitz and his foul breed was run out, force retired and ridiculed.

You have swallowed their arguments hook, line and sinker. Congratulations. But kindly do not equate Iraq with arguments for freedom, liberty and the American way of life for Iraqis. That's unvarnished horseshit.

After all, they've changed their reasoning more times as to why this sad adventure happened, when the simple fact of the matter is, this is a war they wanted. They chose it. God knows why, but they chose it.

They have betrayed this country and weakened it in the eyes of the world, and now the conflict that myself and other analysts said was looming on the horizon is happening. Iran.

We have 200,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen tied up with Iraq (150,000 or so in country, the remainder tied up in logistical and support roles), now you tell me. What have we left for the REAL crisis?

Actually you are wrong about the Iraqi government. It is not only democratic but inclusive. It is not a Shia monopoly as you call it. There are a good many Kurds and Sunnis in the government.
And a government does not have to represent everyone in order to be a democracy. Government serves its own citizens not forigners.

Likewise, the American government represents American citizens, not the immigrants from other lands.

Just how much REAL power do the Sunnis and Kurds wield? They certainly do not have enough representation to do anything other than scream at the top of their lungs. The key to a government is who has the wherewithal to do things. The Sunnis and Kurds cannot do anything unless the Shia approve it. That simple.

Just how much REAL power do the Sunnis and Kurds wield? They certainly do not have enough representation to do anything other than scream at the top of their lungs. The key to a government is who has the wherewithal to do things. The Sunnis and Kurds cannot do anything unless the Shia approve it. That simple.
Then how is it they were able to pressure the Shia's into changing their guy in that one spot (presidency or prime minister it was one of those two).

I don't understand what you are saying. My point was that calling South Americans "Americans" makes as much sense as calling New Zealanders "Australians". You counter with Oceania as being a continent. I look it up, decide it's kind of vague, but go with it. It still doesn't do anything about the original point. Are Australia, New Zealand, etc all in Oceania? Well, sure/maybe. But that still doesn't counter the proposition of calling New Zealanders "Australians".
No, but I wasn´t trying to counter it, but showing that it was based on a false assumption. Calling a Venezuelan American is not the same as calling a New Zealander Australian, however it's the same as calling a New Zealander Oceanian. Or a Swedish European for that matter.


"Once again, nothing astounds me more than the ignorance portrayed by US people about the history of our continent."
-- That is most certainly a flame.
It would, were such ignorance not the rule.



Still waiting for a non-Spanish or Portugese South American colony.
Google Surina, Guyana, and French Guyana.

http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/colony5a.htm
"Spain had two great Viceroyalties in the New World. One was named New Spain. It included all the Spanish provinces north of the Isthmus of Panama. The other was Peru which covered all of Spanish South America except the coast of Venezuela.
Technically Spanish Colonial America (including Mexico) was New Spain. "
That's your source? A school textbook? And you don't want me to patronize you?

...ok, I acknowledge I didn't know that Peru was seperate from New Spain, I thought New Spain was the term for the whole thing.
Not nearly. And your book misses on General Captainships, the two later Viceroyalties and a lot of territorial give and take that went on for three centuries.



A map from 1814:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:1:./temp/~ammem_63Jv::
If you zoom the lower right corner, you can clearly see "A Map of Brazil, now called New Portugal".
Funny. An 1814 source in English. I haven't been able to find a single Portuguese source that calls Brazil New Portugal. The closest I've come to find is The United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and Algarve. That tells me the name was either limited to a single region of Brazil, very temporary or given to it by people not the Portuguese. Unless you can come with a Portuguese source from the 16th C.


Exactly. So how can South Americans claim to be Americans? As I said two posts ago: they're not in the USA, they are living in states within South America. Not one of the South American countries has the word "America" it's name. Not Americans, ala your "New Spain" example.
Words can have to meanings. American can mean a natural of the USA or a natural of the American continent. What's the problem with that? No one's saying that being born in the American continent gives you legal rights in the USA.


See map above. New Portugal. Also, the division was also taking into account the Portugese presence in Africa.
Find me a Portuguese source first or a source from the 16th C. And yes, the Spanish took advantage of the fact that the pope was Spanish and argued that Portugal already had numerous colonies in Africa to get such an advantageous position. Portugal kept fighting and they eventually were conceded more territory. But you misunderstand, the point was not to divide South America (that was not even called that back then) but all the new territories that happened to be discovered. At the time they didn't even know how much that would be.



And I just refuted it above. :D
Not until you can come up with a Portuguese or older source.



The Caribbean is part of Central America, which is part of North America in my geography. I assume you mean Belize (nee British Hondouras) and Jamaica and other islands. However, none of these is south of the canal.
I believe I already mentioned Guyana.


Yep. And the French and English were fishing off the waters of Canada long before Jamestown, too. But as far as everything I've ever read, it was always referred to as "The Americas". Heck, the BBC still does so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/ -- And "The Americas" means North and South.
And the Basques and Portuguese. Don't forget those. They had presence in Newfoundland too.

And yes, Americas has also been used to refer to the continent. The continent has also been called the West Indies, as well as America.
If you base your claim never having read America in that meaning, here, do some reading:
http://www.cubaminrex.cu/josemarti/jose%20marti%20vers%20ingles/marti-our%20america-ing.htm
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1819bolivar.html -- sadly just a fragment, but look how Bolívar uses America, Americans and North Americans.
Here's a map from 1770: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MapaAm%C3%A9ricaJonghe.JPG
Here's another one a tad older: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/maps/3_0_exp/05140302_e.html


Yep. But what you've ignorantly ignored (see how annoying that word can be?) is that we are both speaking from our own (different!) educations, how we learned the world.
Not at all, I know that perfectly. In fact, it's in that difference in perception that I base my argument that people from the continent can be called Americans without being in error. You say that it would be erroneous, yet there are numerous examples that this happens also in English. Even if we divide the continent in North and South, what do we call a group of people from the Americas? Americasians? No, they're simply Americans.

But you mistype: it is similar to America, not the other countries in America. America is made up of 50 states and a few territories.
South America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_america) has 13 countries
and Central America (part of North America) has 7 countries.
And as we had seen before, the Organization of American States is a club for the 50 states of the USA, right?


Yeah, but London is to me just like being in Boston (with worse cooks and odd money, but still). LA is more foreign to me than that.
I consider North and South America to be very different. The cultures of England, Spain, Germany, France are also quite different, as are their languages.
And yet, they are in one continent. Along with Hungary and Ukraine which are still more different. Saudi Arabia and Korea are also in the same continent. And that's one of my points, the division by cultural differences is ambiguous at best.

My other point is that they're not radically different. Not like, say, Pakistan and Uganda. For you personally it may be important, but an objective look says otherwise.

Which is clearly false, or at least wooly thinking.
The whole planet calls citizens of the US "Americans". When I go back to Slovakia and we discuss Chavez or Castro, NO ONE would even consider calling him an American.
However if you were talking about a summit of American presidents, what would they understand?

So what is the point of calling Peru and American state? Unless it has a star on Old Glory, it clearly isn't. It's a country of its own. In South America.
Peru by itself, not much. But the entirety of the countries in the continent, it does make sense.

Further:
I've never heard a Canadian call himself an American.
I've never had anyone I've worked with (Salvadorans, Mexicans, Columbians, etc) ever say they were Americans unless they were citizens of the USA.
Of course, because that would confuse whatever they're trying to say. It doesn't mean that in other context and other situations refering to them as Americans would be incorrect.



Surely you've got to be kidding. You're being condenscending to the extreme, and are doing nothing other than declaring yourself an expert that cannot be questioned. ROTFLMAO. [/qoute]
You can question me, but with real objective arguments. After you've read the history of the settlement of the entire continent, which you clearly have not, then you'll be able to refute me. Until you do so, you'll have to take the paternalist tone.



[QUOTE=Markreich]The majority of Americans (real, 50 state Americans) do not consider you Americans. Nor do most people in the world. There is only one America: The United States of. There only other one was the Confederate States of, and that only lasted half a decade.
There has not been, nor (given the squabbles, especially between the ABC countries) a Latin States of America, or any other such thing.

If you don't know this basic thing, how can you expect to put together a good arguement?
And there's not country named Europe, yet there are Europeans. Do you really mean to tell me that if the USA had chosen another name (Franklinia, for example) there´d be no Americans? Is that what you're trying to say? That the USA invented the name America? That it didn't exist and wasn't used before 1776?



Wow. You're saying that agreeing with you is to become educated?
I'm deeply impressed with your sense of being right. :rolleyes:
No, I'm saying that if you care to know about the history of this continent you have to do more than read high school text books and watch PBS documentaries.

You may want to go to the text of those countries that started the colonization, for example. I mean, if you really care to learn about the continent. If you're happy in your corner, it's ok.

I just can't be proud of a country who brought Pinnochet into power, of a country that trades with and strengthens the brutal communist China regime, while reducing a much less violent and less opressive nation (Cuba) to the level of third world with our sanctions. A nation that cuts off the supply of TB vaccine to a country in the middle of an epidemic for political reasons. A country that illegally sells weapons to terrorists to fund other terrorists and cocane runners. A nation that arms and trains death squads in South America. A nations with a massive nuclear, chemical, and bio-weapons program. A nation that spends billions on bombs creating new enemies, while neglecting it's own people. A nation that sends kids to schools with crumbling walls, no books, and only half a fire alarm system. A nation that builds schools and houses on toxic waste dumps. A nation with a government that lies to and spys on it's people. A nation that gives patens on the genetic codes of living organizms. A nation where 40,000,000 people don't have health insurance, and a spranged ankle can cost 15,000. God help you if you have to go to the hospital with chest pains. A nation that expanded through conquest. A nation where Corperation and State are nearly indistinguishable. A militeristic, materialistic, statist, imperalist power, that once was the freest nation on earth, but now ranks behind almost every developed nation in human rights anc civil rights.

So no, I am not proud to be an American. Not untill this country earns my respect.


If you wanna respond, don't just do a blanket statement like you like to so much. Quote and respond to each of my points. Otherwise, you are admitting I am right.

You have no choice in what nation you're born in. It's irratational to be proud of being an American.

That'd be like saying I'm proud I have brown hair, it's irrelevant.
Rationality sucks.
Im proud to be American, and I would tell anybody who asked that I was such.
What I WOULDNT do was stand in the middle of a street in, say, Istanbul and shout, "I AM AN AMERICAN!" or something along those lines. If I wanted to be kidnapped, I would do it in a country where they dont sodomize you.[/endstereotyping]

What is the point of the name debate?

Everyone who lives in North or South America is an American (refering to continent of origin, not nationality), just as everyone from Europe is a European (again, refering to countinent of origin, not nationality)

Why have we had 16 pages of debate about it? Why?

I don't think I'd go as far to say I'm fervently or zealously proud, just because of the certain choices of our government and the vast majority that believes that the government is always looking out for you. I am proud of our accomplishments, but not proud of the ignorance that is so common place here.

TOO PROUD FOR MY OWN GOOD! *Chants* USA! USA!

I believe America is the greatest country on earth that is or has ever been. But I completly and uterly hate the current government and very concerned on where its going, ie..police state. At that point I would have no problem taking up arms against. Hopefully with fellow Americans at my side.

I believe America is the greatest country on earth that is or has ever been. But I completly and uterly hate the current government and very concerned on where its going, ie..police state. At that point I would have no problem taking up arms against. Hopefully with fellow Americans at my side.

I hear alot of people say this. But here's the thing. The current administration isn't really that different, and hasn't been doing things much worst then past administrations. They are just more blantent and open about it, seeing as they've created a war atmosphere, which always makes it easyer. Also, you know about the past what history records. History doesn't record the fuck-ups, the bullshit, the lies, the murder, for the most part. So really, you, like me, believe in what the nation origonally stood for. But that hasn't really been the case for many, many years.

We all believe in the same things: Freedom, justice, equality, oppertunity, the gov not being all up in your face, the sanctity of human life. I just think that not only this administration, but pretty much every one for the past 200 years, have betrayed those things.

I am NOT American/USian/Yankee or whatsoever, so i don't care!

I love my country. I am proud to be an American.

Why do people find Patriotism bad? If someone is proud to be an American, by all means they should be aloud to.

And yes, US citizens are called Americans. Why? We're the only country with 'America' in our name, thank you very much. You can shove that 'USian' crap.

Zukariaa']... And yes, US citizens are called Americans. Why? We're the only country with 'America' in our name, thank you very much. You can shove that 'USian' crap.

ROFL, USians.... :D :D :D !! Back when I was a wee little one, online, before I knew ANYTHING, I'd call those British folks "UKians" ... Waaay back when. Well not too long ago, but still. I swear, I made it up. Those were the days. :p

Zukariaa']I love my country. I am proud to be an American.

Why do people find Patriotism bad? If someone is proud to be an American, by all means they should be aloud to.

No, patriotism is not bad. Just as loyalty is not bad. But patriotism and loyalty to something that is bad, or that is doing wrong, now that is bad.

When Hitler came to power and built Germany back into a superpower, many Germans were patriotic and loyal to the state. Others, being patriotic in a different way, were repulsed by what Hitler was doing in Germany, and secretly hid their fellow countrymen who were suddenly "enemies of the state." I'm not saying the US is the same as Nazi Germany, just showing that patriotism isn't intrensically good or bad. It all depends on how it effects your choices and actions

Of course you're allowed to be proud to be American. You're allowed to be whatever you want. It's part of basic freedoms.