NationStates Jolt Archive

What the heck makes you think they need permission?

Oh, and by the by, the anthem should have been translated long ago, Spanish being the second largest language in the US.

How couldn't it be, close to 20 million illegal immigrants live in the U.S. and are growing at about half a million a year not including more illegal immigrants flooding over the border.

I'm not saying all of them are necessarily Hispanic, but most about 70-80% are indeed Hispanic.

If illegals want to earn their right in the U.S. and gain our respect as Americans as well. Simply, allpy for citizenship like most of our parents, grandparents, or great grand parents did, and wait in line for your turn. Also, take the time to learn the English language like the majority of us did as well, past and present so you can honor and recite important lyrics such as our National Anthem.

They are going way too far.

i'm surprised you can imagine at all.

I'll let you continue being an ass and i'll just ignore your comments. As a rule of thumb, when you want anyone to take your comment seriously, you don't be a prick in the next comment. But eh, trolls will be trolls.

C'est à moi d'être méchant avec les autres enfants aujourd'hui. Il te faudra attendre ton propre tour.
It's much more fun to ....matronise you?

How couldn't it be, close to 20 million illegal immigrants live in the U.S. and are growing at about half a million a year not including more illegal immigrants flooding over the border.

I'm not saying all of them are necessarily Hispanic, but most about 70-80% are indeed Hispanic.

If illegals want to earn their right in the U.S. and gain our respect as Americans as well. Simply, allpy for citizenship like most of our parents, grandparents, or great grand parents did, and wait in line for your turn. Also, take the time to learn the English language like the majority of us did as well, past and present so you can honor and recite important lyrics such as our National Anthem.

Isn't it funny how you assume all Spanish-speakers are illegal. Oh, and they could just as easily promote the use of Spanish.

It's much more fun to ....matronise you?

Me? You matronise everyone. It's getting stale, to be honest. I'm being sincere here.

i'm surprised you can imagine at all.

You must be easily suprised.

I'll let you continue being an ass and i'll just ignore your comments. As a rule of thumb, when you want anyone to take your comment seriously, you don't be a prick in the next comment. But eh, trolls will be trolls.

And you should that saying stupidly obvious things like "it's you opinion" about someone else's opinion does exactly make you look like Einstein, or be taken "seriously," like you seem to value.

Me? You matronise everyone. It's getting stale, to be honest. And I'm being sincere here.
Well, we all have our personality quirks. Some of those quirks annoy others to no end, and others endear us to them...but you can sweetly fuck off if you think that your bitchy mood gives you any right to start getting snarky with me.

No, I realise that...but you have no official languages...so why should it matter what language the song is in? And if the translations differ...so what?

Because this song is not the national anthem though they are claiming it is.

Well, we all have our personality quirks. Some of those quirks annoy others to no end, and others endear us to them...but you can sweetly fuck off if you think that your bitchy mood gives you any right to start getting snarky with me.

Snarky? You need snarky. I miss the fun Sinuhue, not this one that seems to have grown old ahead of time and is so fucking meek it makes me miss the old one twice as much, because she'd have her for breakfast.

agreed, time to get back on topic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521196/

has one of the lyrical changes:





meh... i don't think it's the national anthem anymore... i see only a minor problem w/ not saying bombs and rockets, but "fierce combat" conveys that. However, completely changing the lyrics to let's not start a war w/ the workers.... It changes the meaning of the anthem.

Sounds like communism when they start saying lets not start a war with the workers.

Because this song is not the national anthem though they are claiming it is.
I'm not sure that is their claim...the news stories are pretty sensationalised. If you just look at the lyrics, it seems like it is a different song, simply pulling lines from the anthem and translating them. I haven't seen it claimed that this song would replace the anthem for Spanish-speaking people.

How couldn't it be, close to 20 million illegal immigrants live in the U.S. and are growing at about half a million a year not including more illegal immigrants flooding over the border.

I'm not saying all of them are necessarily Hispanic, but most about 70-80% are indeed Hispanic.

If illegals want to earn their right in the U.S. and gain our respect as Americans as well. Simply, allpy for citizenship like most of our parents, grandparents, or great grand parents did, and wait in line for your turn. Also, take the time to learn the English language like the majority of us did as well, past and present so you can honor and recite important lyrics such as our National Anthem.
You know, chances are one of your ancestor is an illegal immigrant. Care to check your lineage before throwing stones?

A National Anthem has only the importance the individual gives it. For example, I don't care for my Anthem, english or french.

Snarky? You need snarky. I miss the fun Sinuhue, not this one that seems to have grown old ahead of time and is so fucking meek it makes me miss the old one twice as much, because she'd have her for breakfast.
Huh. Interesting. Not sure what's brought this on...did I back out of a fight that you felt I should've continued in or something?

Well, whatever Fass. I can't always be the 'old one'...whatever image of such that you've constructed in your mind. You're hardly the one to tell me who I am.

But this sure reminds me of when we first met.

Huh. Interesting. Not sure what's brought this on...did I back out of a fight that you felt I should've continued in or something?

You're so non-confrontational nowadays, and you'd rather be friends with people here than be right, even though you are so clearly right most of the time.

Well, whatever Fass. I can't always be the 'old one'...whatever image of such that you've constructed in your mind. You're hardly the one to tell me who I am.

Perhaps, but I can tell you're different and I'm acclimatising.

But this sure reminds me of when we first met.

I can't say the same thing, which may be good for you, I suppose.

Ugh. Enough of this. Enough.

You're so non-confrontational nowadays, and you'd rather be friends with people here than be right, even though you are so clearly right most of the time. Then you've been reading the wrong threads, hon. A couple (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=479301) spring (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=476257) to mind in which I was anything but friendly...though I have been working off some of my bitchiness elsewhere as this forum has paled somewhat for me...that could be part of it.


Ugh. Enough of this. Enough.Sounds good.

agreed, time to get back on topic.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12521196/

has one of the lyrical changes:
Hate to burst your bubble sparky, but that's not a lyrical change, it's an insert, it's even in English. And it's not in most versions floating around.

Nice try at distorting the issue though...

Hate to burst your bubble sparky, but that's not a lyrical change, it's an insert, it's even in English. And it's not in most versions floating around.

Nice try at distorting the issue though...

most versions of what floating around? From what someone said earlier in the post, their transformation of the national anthem apparently hasn't been posted in full yet.

I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We speak English in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here.

fuck yeah! i'm looking at you, puerto rico.

fuck yeah! i'm looking at you, puerto rico.
It doesn't count for some reason I will now mumble into a kleenex...

most versions of what floating around? From what someone said earlier in the post, their transformation of the national anthem apparently hasn't been posted in full yet.You need to get a life beyond your computer. You can hear it at rallies or on the radio. The net is not all there is to life.

Because this song is not the national anthem though they are claiming it is.

Because it isn't sung in the ubertongue?

One would think that you would welcome everyone to embrace the Star-Spangled Banner and the ideals it upholds. But apparently only if they do it in the "right" language.

You need to get a life beyond your computer. You can hear it at rallies or on the radio. The net is not all there is to life.
this response didn't at all answer my question. hear "what" the new anthem? or a translated version of it?

I don't listen to spanish stations, sorry. i don't like the music. and the rest of the world is apparently hearing this for the first time too.

*edit*
and please don't make assumptions about me.

Because it isn't sung in the ubertongue?

One would think that you would welcome everyone to embrace the Star-Spangled Banner and the ideals it upholds. But apparently only if they do it in the "right" language.
i think he's trying to say that it's no longer the national anthem because they changed the wording of it to mean something else.

this response didn't at all answer my question. hear "what" the new anthem? or a translated version of it?

I don't listen to spanish stations, sorry. i don't like the music. and the rest of the world is apparently hearing this for the first time too.

*edit*
and please don't make assumptions about me.What 'new' anthem? All there is is a translated anthem. The 'changed lyrics' you claim are just a rap line inserted (in English) in one version of the Spanish translated Star Spangled Banner.

What is the big deal? The national anthem I'm most familiar with had its orgiginal lyrics in another language. Americans should be honoured that there is a new proud American culture!

i think he's trying to say that it's no longer the national anthem because they changed the wording of it to mean something else.

Oh really, well there are two problems with that theory: it isn't what Corny said and it doesn't appear to be true.

Translating --especially a song -- naturally requires some leeway, but what evidence is there that the basic meanings of the song have been changed.

(Yes, I am familiar with the fact that there is one version that inserts an additional set of lines -- that doesn't purport to be a mere translation. That is different than changing the meaning of the whole song.)

It doesn't count for some reason I will now mumble into a kleenex...

ah yes, i had forgotten about that reason. it's all so clear now.

Because it isn't sung in the ubertongue?

One would think that you would welcome everyone to embrace the Star-Spangled Banner and the ideals it upholds. But apparently only if they do it in the "right" language.


It doesnt seem so much a question of the "right" language as of the "pure" language.

As corny said, singing it in another language 'debases' it.

As corny said, singing it in another language 'debases' it.

but what about the commonly sung version that is technically incorrect?

"josé, can you see by the donzerly light?"

but what about the commonly sung version that is technically incorrect?

"josé, can you see by the donzerly light?"


I dont wear that cone-shaped cap of corny's, so I cant communicate with magical answers and jesuses the way he can, so I really can't answer that.

"josé, can you see by the donzerly light?"

and jay leno just stole my line. bastard.

fuck yeah! i'm looking at you, puerto rico.

1) Puerto Rico is not a state

2) It is technically its own nation as they do participate under its own flag during the Olympics.

Because it isn't sung in the ubertongue?

One would think that you would welcome everyone to embrace the Star-Spangled Banner and the ideals it upholds. But apparently only if they do it in the "right" language.

When they change the lyrics and claim it to be the anthem, I have a problem with that.

1) Puerto Rico is not a state

2) It is technically its own nation as they do participate under its own flag during the Olympics.

and yet they are USian citizens...

and yet they are USian citizens...

Without voting rights for the election of the President of the United States.

So, two mexicans, Raul and Jose, slip across the border one day to watch a baseball game in the USA. Now, being mexican, they don't have any money, so when they get to the stadium, they're stuck outside and can't see the game.
"What are we going to do?" says Jose.
"Why don't you climb up the flagpole there, and then you can look over the wall. You can describe what's going on to me, and halfway through, you climb down, and I'll go up," Raul decides.
So Jose climbs up to Old Glory, and waits for the game to start. However, just when they start singing the national anthem, Jose quickly slides down the pole and starts running away. Raul finally catches up to him, and asks him what went wrong.
"They saw me, hombre. They saw me!"
"How do you know?"
"Well, just when the music started, the entire stadium looked at me and sang: Jose, can you see...

:D :D I liked it!

When I heard they had translated it to spanish I thought it was a real translation to spanish, not spanglish... It's awful. We have spanish from mexico, argentina, cuba, chile, venezuela, spain... Half of the lyrics doesn't have any sense to me.

Without voting rights for the election of the President of the United States.

whatever. back on point, do you think the people of puerto rico should be stripped of their US citizenship just so that your statement,

I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We speak English in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here.would be slightly less flagrantly ridiculously wrong and stupid?

whatever. back on point, do you think the people of puerto rico should be stripped of their US citizenship just so that your statement,

would be slightly less flagrantly ridiculously wrong and stupid?

Hey they can split whenever they feel like for all I care.

Hey they can split whenever they feel like for all I care.

since they don't apparently care to, and they are going to continue using spanish as an official language for the foreseeable future, that doesn't appear to answer the question. care to try again?

I wonder what year congress will officially recognize a spanish version of the national anthem.

20? 30? 40 years down the road?


Demographic facts will eventually have their say on the issue.

Hey they can split whenever they feel like for all I care.


And if they vote one of these days to accept statehood?

Maybe we should pass a racist law commanding them to use english.

You know, so we dont debase our country with spanish.

since they don't apparently care to, and they are going to continue using spanish as an official language for the foreseeable future, that doesn't appear to answer the question. care to try again?

They technically run their own affairs. I do not care if they have an official language. They are not a US State. Just like Guam, American Samoa, Northern Marianas are not US States.

And if they vote one of these days to accept statehood?

Maybe we should pass a racist law commanding them to use english.

You know, so we dont debase our country with spanish.

Who said I had a problem with Spanish?

I wonder if the British got all upset when Francis Scott Key and his brother-in-law decided to change the lyrics of "To Anacreon in Heaven."

"Key gave his poem to his brother-in-law, Judge Joseph H. Nicholson, who recognized that the poem fit the tune of 'To Anacreon in Heaven,' a popular melody dating from the mid-1760s, written in London by John Stafford Smith. Nicholson took the poem to a printer. These broadside copies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Defence_of_Fort_M%27Henry_broadside.jpg), the song's first known printing, were printed anonymously in Baltimore on September 17 — of these, two known copies still exist.

"On September 20, both the Baltimore Patriot and The American printed the song, with the note 'Tune: Anacreon in Heaven.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Defence_of_Fort_M%27Henry_broadside.jpg) The song quickly became popular, with 17 newspapers from Georgia to New Hampshire printing it. Soon after, Thomas Carr of the Carr Music Store in Baltimore published the words and music together under the title 'The Star-Spangled Banner.' The song quickly became popular, and the first public performance of 'The Star-Spangled Banner' took place in October, when Baltimore actor Ferdinand Durang sang the song at Captain McCauley's tavern."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star-Spangled_Banner

Apparently "artists" "steal" each other work all the time and all throughout history. ( :eek: !!!!!!!!!! ) It is kind of hard to criticize individuals who have altered the lyrics of the national anthem when the national anthem itself is a song whose lyrics were altered. I saw a relative of Key on the news last night talking about how debasing someone else's music is so bad and wrong. You mean like Francis Scott Key and his brother-in-law did themselves? Ummm, hello? :headbang:

Who said I had a problem with Spanish?


We don't but we should. However, when one debases the national anthem by 1) singing it in a different language and 2) changing the words, that makes me mad.


You did, corny!

You did, corny!

I said singing it in a different language here disgusts me. I never stated that I had a problem with espanol

Buenos Dias Senor.

I said singing it in a different language here disgusts me. I never stated that I had a problem with espanol

Buenos Dias Senor.


You certainly implied it.

It was the word "debase" that you used.


At any rate, english isnt the official language, and shouldnt be.

If we contradict the founders and delve into official languages, experience shows that having more than one makes the country safer.

Canada is safer than the US, and Switzerland is even safer than canada!

Its republican reasoning!

They technically run their own affairs. I do not care if they have an official language. They are not a US State. Just like Guam, American Samoa, Northern Marianas are not US States.

so to be part of the us requires being a state, therefore washington dc isn't part of the united states?

so to be part of the us requires being a state, therefore washington dc isn't part of the united states?

Actually they are for they also vote for President and is the seat of government. It is also called the federal district for that very reason.

Actually they are for they also vote for President and is the seat of government. It is also called the federal district for that very reason.

is the presidential vote part important? because if so then dc wasn't part of the united states until the 1960s. i'm just a little confused as to what your specific requirement for "being part of the nation" is.

CIA Factbook


Independence:
none (territory of the US with commonwealth status)
National holiday:
US Independence Day, 4 July (1776); Puerto Rico Constitution Day, 25 July (1952)
Constitution:
ratified 3 March 1952, approved by US Congress 3 July 1952, effective 25 July 1952
Legal system:
based on Spanish civil code and within the US Federal system of justice
Suffrage:
18 years of age; universal; island residents are US citizens but do not vote in US presidential elections
Executive branch:
chief of state: President George W. BUSH of the US (since 20 January 2001); Vice President Richard B. CHENEY (since 20 January 2001)


/7 You know you're gonna have to face it, you're addicted to wrong /7

Actually they are for they also vote for President and is the seat of government. It is also called the federal district for that very reason.
The US Constitution recognized unincorporated territories as part of the United States. They just can't vote for president, but they have almost all other rights that States have. They're part of the United States.

And Wales compete under their own flag in the World Cup. So what?

*Snip*

Then why do they participate under their own flag during the Olympics?

When they change the lyrics and claim it to be the anthem, I have a problem with that.

Just following on from debate we've had in other threads... since you have no problem accepting the Bible - even though it is ENTIRELY a 'translation', from no less than THREE other languages (and not a very faithful translation, either, quite often)... how can YOU possibly object to translated material?

If you claim this translation is NOT the Anthem, does that mean you are also admitting you've never read the Bible?

Then why do they participate under their own flag during the Olympics?

You just got served, dude. Seriously.

You just got served, dude. Seriously.

Why do they participate under their own flag during the Olympics?

Why do they participate under their own flag during the Olympics?

What does THAT even matter?

The Olympics is NOT some cosmic arbiter of nationality and juridiction.

What does THAT even matter?

The Olympics is NOT some cosmic arbiter of nationality and juridiction.

No its not but yet many "nations" that participate in the olympics belong to a few other nations are in the olympics.

Makes me wonder just how independent one nation is.

Why do they participate under their own flag during the Olympics?

the same reason that aruba (a state of the kingdom the netherlands) gets to.

No its not but yet many "nations" that participate in the olympics belong to a few other nations are in the olympics.

Makes me wonder just how independent one nation is.

And, again... it is completely irrelevent... and doesn't (in any way) respond to the fact that New Granada just handed you your ass on a silver platter.

Why does Wales participate under a Welsh flag? Why does it MATTER?

And, again... it is completely irrelevent... and doesn't (in any way) respond to the fact that New Granada just handed you your ass on a silver platter.

Why does Wales participate under a Welsh flag? Why does it MATTER?

Call me curious.

Call me curious.

the answer is that the ioc doesn't base recognition on being an independent nation or even having any particular level of sovereignty. they'd probably let des moines have it's own noc if there was enough interest.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/noc/index_uk.asp

the answer is that the ioc doesn't base recognition on being an independent nation or even having any particular level of sovereignty. they'd probably let des moines have it's own noc if there was enough interest.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/noc/index_uk.asp

mesa curiouso gracias senior.

Call me curious.
Because they have their own Olympic Committee. :rolleyes:
Heck, there may be an Independent Puerto Rico Numismatic Association. That doesn't mean Puerto Rico is not part of the USA.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm surprised it hasn't been translated into other languages decades ago. They can translate it into Estonian or Tagalog for all I care. More power to them.

That having been said, I think that all immigrants to this country should learn English rather than expect the rest of us to accomodate their lack of English. Countries with more than one official language have nothing but trouble on this point (Belgium, Canada, India, etc.).

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. I'm surprised it hasn't been translated into other languages decades ago. They can translate it into Estonian or Tagalog for all I care. More power to them.

That having been said, I think that all immigrants to this country should learn English rather than expect the rest of us to accomodate their lack of English. Countries with more than one official language have nothing but trouble on this point (Belgium, Canada, India, etc.).

Especially switzerland, with its four officials languages, ESPECIALLY when you combine it with all the guns they have.

The place is practically a war-zone, average male life expectancy is something like 35 because they have so many official languages.

I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We speak English in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here.We lost that right when we started annexing Spanish-speaking countries.

Especially switzerland, with its four officials languages, ESPECIALLY when you combine it with all the guns they have.

The place is practically a war-zone, average male life expectancy is something like 35 because they have so many official languages.
It's not so much the language as the culture. Language is acceptance is only the beginning. See Quebec.

I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We speak English in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here.


Not a hair's breadth from:

"I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We worship Jesus in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here."

Not a hair's breadth from:

"I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We worship Jesus in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here."

I honestly do not care what religion people are so I advise against stereotyping.

I honestly do not care what religion people are so I advise against stereotyping.

Read what I wrote and then respond to it, corneliu.

What you said has nothing to do at all with what I posted, corneliu.

I dont have any bother with other translations of God Save Queen, then I dont a have a offical Language or a offical National Anthem

I dont have any bother with other translations of God Save Queen, then I dont a have a offical Language or a offical National Anthem


The US doesnt have an official language either, the founders nixed that idea.

The US doesnt have an official language either, the founders nixed that idea.Maybe because they saw the hypocrisy in adopting one in a nation composed almost entirely of immigrants...

The US doesnt have an official language either, the founders nixed that idea.

i tihnk propably the best idea not to have any offical language, let it be just be de facto

Not a hair's breadth from:

"I don't honestly care. This is the USA. We worship Jesus in this nation. If they cannot understand that then they should not be here."
Well, there is a significant difference between multiple languages in a nation and multiple religions. Languages have important economic repercussions down to the level of having to create menus in more than one language and that costing paper but really the language changing required for things would reach a ridiculous level. It causes problems for interpersonal dealings involving multiple languages because it is not very possible for somebody who speaks english to talk to somebody who speaks spanish without a translator and this can cause misunderstanding and distrust on both sides of the fence. It is better for us to have set expectations for what the language will be and let newcomers conform than let established residents have to struggle because a group from another country usurped their nation, at the very least it would make more sense as I think that immigrants really should know or learn the language of the country that they enter.

Doesn't everyone sing their national anthem in broken English? Anyone who knows more than the first three lines and the last one is dangerously patriotic.

Ha! I know the entire "Star Spangled Banner" AND all of "O Canada" in English! Of course, all that proves is that I love going to hockey games...

Anyway, all of this is silly. It's as though people think that English is somehow some sort of "pure" language, and translating something as "holy" as the national anthem into one of those heathen tongues would end the universe or something. It's not as though God descended from Heaven and said "Lo, I give unto you this song for your nation, but let it be sung only in English, or I shall smite thee!"

Well, there is a significant difference between multiple languages in a nation and multiple religions. Languages have important economic repercussions down to the level of having to create menus in more than one language and that costing paper but really the language changing required for things would reach a ridiculous level. It causes problems for interpersonal dealings involving multiple languages because it is not very possible for somebody who speaks english to talk to somebody who speaks spanish without a translator and this can cause misunderstanding and distrust on both sides of the fence. It is better for us to have set expectations for what the language will be and let newcomers conform than let established residents have to struggle because a group from another country usurped their nation, at the very least it would make more sense as I think that immigrants really should know or learn the language of the country that they enter.


Immigrants hardly "usurp" the nation, it is a nation comprised completely of immigrants.

It may be conventient to whine that immigrants from south america must speak english instead of spanish today, while their numbers are relatively small, but in the next few decades, those numbers will rise exponentially, and spanish will become an even stronger linguistic force, and in more widespread regions.

Read what I wrote and then respond to it, corneliu.

What you said has nothing to do at all with what I posted, corneliu.

I did respond to what you posted.

I did respond to what you posted.


tu ne comprends pas, tu ne comprends pas.

tu ne comprends pas, tu ne comprends pas.

Oh I comprehended it just fine.

He who has ears, let him hear.