NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't remember any mass demonstrations by muslims condeming these few radicals. I do remember mass celebrations after the 911 attacks and mass protests and violence over a couple of cartoons.

Stop watching Fox then. The mass celebrations were not just Muslim, but most Arab countries. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Americans are hated. You butt in to make a profit where you are not wanted and stir up a bees nest with the capture of Saddam. Then another nest is stirred up with a cartoon imaging an idol the Muslims have a strict code saying should not be made into an image. If you want the problems to cease, stop fucking everything you touch up. Just like a goddamn kid in a glass store...you're bound to break something.

It's the Islamic culture which makes them into it.

Ah, of course, Hillary. And it's the video game culture which makes people shoot each other in the US. Blah blah blah.


Now your just beeing childish. One muslim on an internet forum is proof that I'm totaly wrong? Please.

No. It's proof that where you merely *supposed* the existence of non-raping/terrorist Muslims, their hypothetical existence or else such people were "hiding," you were either lying or ignorant. Or just generalizing - as usual.

Maybe though, you could point out to me how it's Islamic culture that makes people rape. And then explain why the US has a higher percentage of rapes than any Islamic country.

What? Link?
its actually from a book ill try to find the title

the koran says that it is ok to rape women of non muslim beleif also it says eat with a jew because he dos not eat pork and sleep in a christan home for he will not kill you later the koran syays that the jew is a filthy son of a pig and that all christans must die.. this is from a former Muslim Iama its kind of a priest ( I hope thats spelled right)

Right, that also explains why so many Muslims and Jews can be seen in cafeterias eating together, and how come every Muslim immigrant can be found in a Southern Baptists guest bedroom.

its actually from a book ill try to find the title

Yep.

Stop watching Fox then. The mass celebrations were not just Muslim, but most Arab countries. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Americans are hated. You butt in to make a profit where you are not wanted and stir up a bees nest with the capture of Saddam. Then another nest is stirred up with a cartoon imaging an idol the Muslims have a strict code saying should not be made into an image. If you want the problems to cease, stop fucking everything you touch up. Just like a goddamn kid in a glass store...you're bound to break something.
whats with you and fox news???

Stop watching Fox then. The mass celebrations were not just Muslim, but most Arab countries.
And Arab countries are what religion again? And I don't watch Fox.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but Americans are hated.
I have no love for them either.
Then another nest is stirred up with a cartoon imaging an idol the Muslims have a strict code saying should not be made into an image. If you want the problems to cease, stop fucking everything you touch up. Just like a goddamn kid in a glass store...you're bound to break something.
They have no problem making cartoons about others though.

whats with you and fox news???

What's with you, period?

whats with you and fox news???

Fox is the stupidest, most unreliable source of "information" that has ever come to this Earth.

(Other than supermarket tabloids, of course.)

What's with you, period?

Hey, don't be rude.

And Arab countries are what religion again? And I don't watch Fox.

I have no love for them either.

They have no problem making cartoons about others though.

Then the Muslim religion is equally hypocritical. But if we're to burn the Muslims at the stake as Something apparently wants to do, why not everyone else?

its ok i watch fox news to get a good laugh after work

its ok i watch fox news to get a good laugh after work

I should start doing that.

Fox is the stupidest, most unreliable source of "information" that has ever come to this Earth.

(Other than supermarket tabloids, of course.)

The current owner of Fox got his start with his own tabloid.

Then the Muslim religion is equally hypocritical. But if we're to burn the Muslims at the stake as Something apparently wants to do, why not everyone else?
except the muslims are the ones who want to burn everbody to the stake

The current owner of Fox got his start with his own tabloid.

O_o

Really?

except the muslims are the ones who want to burn everbody to the stake

Proof?

Blah blah blah.
The only worthwhile sentence in the first part.




No. It's proof that where you merely *supposed* the existence of non-raping/terrorist Muslims, their hypothetical existence or else such people were "hiding," you were either lying or ignorant. Or just generalizing - as usual.
What?

Maybe though, you could point out to me how it's Islamic culture that makes people rape. And then explain why the US has a higher percentage of rapes than any Islamic country.
Their own women are like holy cows. Not to be touched unless your married to them. Non muslim women however fair game. To be toyed with to their hearts content. Because non muslims are second rate citizens according to the Quaran. And how many reliable sources about rapes in Islamic countries do you have?

Stop watching Fox then. The mass celebrations were not just Muslim, but most Arab countries. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Americans are hated. You butt in to make a profit where you are not wanted and stir up a bees nest with the capture of Saddam. Then another nest is stirred up with a cartoon imaging an idol the Muslims have a strict code saying should not be made into an image. If you want the problems to cease, stop fucking everything you touch up. Just like a goddamn kid in a glass store...you're bound to break something.

Pssss....as much as you'd like to blame America for your problems, your countries problems, your peoples problems, the worlds problems, the suns inevitable death....Denmark printed the cartoons;)

Their own women are like holy cows. Not to be touched unless your married to them. Non muslim women however fair game. To be toyed with to their hearts content. Because non muslims are second rate citizens according to the Quaran. And how many reliable sources about rapes in Islamic countries do you have?

Prove this.

The Opening Line of Every Chapter of the Koran:

“In the name of God, the Merciful and the Compassionate.”

Single Out Jews and Christians for Discrimination:

*
The Jizya:

"Fight against those to whom the scriptures are given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and his apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay the tribute out of hand and are humbled." Sura: 9:29 1

*
Don't Take Jews and Christians as Friends:

"O you who believe! Take not the Jew and the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever of you befriends them is one of them. Allah does not guide the people who do evil." Sura: 5:56 2

prove me wrong please

Then the Muslim religion is equally hypocritical. But if we're to burn the Muslims at the stake as Something apparently wants to do, why not everyone else?
I don't want to burn them at the stake. I simply want them to leave my country. My continent if possible. In their native countries they can live as Islamic as they like.

except the muslims are the ones who want to burn everbody to the stake

Please, just stop talking. You lie through your teeth claiming your religious refugee status in the past, then become a hypocrite with that statement.

The Opening Line of Every Chapter of the Koran:

“In the name of God, the Merciful and the Compassionate.”

Single Out Jews and Christians for Discrimination:

*
The Jizya:

"Fight against those to whom the scriptures are given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and his apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay the tribute out of hand and are humbled." Sura: 9:29 1

*
Don't Take Jews and Christians as Friends:

"O you who believe! Take not the Jew and the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever of you befriends them is one of them. Allah does not guide the people who do evil." Sura: 5:56 2

prove me wrong please


Then most Muslims I know do not follow that.

Insult of Jews

*
Jews "Slew the Prophets":

"Wretchedness and baseness were stamped upon them, and they were visited with wrath from Allah. This was because they disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets wrongfully. That was for their disobedience and transgression." Sura 2:61 3

Unbeliever Must Change Religion to Islam or Die:

*

"Surely those who disbelieve in our signs. We shall certainly roast them at a Fire; as often as their skins are wholly burned. We shall give them in exchange other skins, that they may taste the chastisement." Sura, 55-60
* ".it is not for the Prophet (Mohammad) and the believers to ask pardon for the idolaters, even though they are near kinsmen, after that it has become clear to them that they will be the inhabitants of Hell." Sura IX 110-1
*

".Take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them , and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact, or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people..If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them wherever you come on them; against them We have given you a clear authority." Sura IV 90-95
*

". Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, & perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is all-forgiving, All-compassionate. And if any of the idolaters seek of thee protection, grant him protection till he hears the words of God; then do thou convey him to his place of security that, because they are people who do not know." Sura IX 5-10

I don't want to burn them at the stake. I simply want them to leave my country. My continent if possible. In their native countries they can live as Islamic as they like.

Why do you want them to leave?

I don't want to burn them at the stake. I simply want them to leave my country. My continent if possible. In their native countries they can live as Islamic as they like.


Your country. It's that attitude that has caused endless wars. Without any respect or understanding, your worst off than them.

Then most Muslims I know do not follow that.
yet its their holy scriptures

Insult of Jews

*
Jews "Slew the Prophets":

"Wretchedness and baseness were stamped upon them, and they were visited with wrath from Allah. This was because they disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets wrongfully. That was for their disobedience and transgression." Sura 2:61 3

Unbeliever Must Change Religion to Islam or Die:

*

"Surely those who disbelieve in our signs. We shall certainly roast them at a Fire; as often as their skins are wholly burned. We shall give them in exchange other skins, that they may taste the chastisement." Sura, 55-60
* ".it is not for the Prophet (Mohammad) and the believers to ask pardon for the idolaters, even though they are near kinsmen, after that it has become clear to them that they will be the inhabitants of Hell." Sura IX 110-1
*

".Take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them , and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact, or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people..If they withdraw not from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, take them, and slay them wherever you come on them; against them We have given you a clear authority." Sura IV 90-95
*

". Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, & perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is all-forgiving, All-compassionate. And if any of the idolaters seek of thee protection, grant him protection till he hears the words of God; then do thou convey him to his place of security that, because they are people who do not know." Sura IX 5-10

Then every last Muslim I know does not follow any of that...

Then the Muslim religion is equally hypocritical. But if we're to burn the Muslims at the stake as Something apparently wants to do, why not everyone else?
When did I say anything about killing them? I'd just want them out of the country.

The Opening Line of Every Chapter of the Koran:

“In the name of God, the Merciful and the Compassionate.”

Single Out Jews and Christians for Discrimination:

*
The Jizya:

"Fight against those to whom the scriptures are given, who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, who forbid not what Allah and his apostle have forbidden, and follow not the true faith, until they pay the tribute out of hand and are humbled." Sura: 9:29 1

*
Don't Take Jews and Christians as Friends:

"O you who believe! Take not the Jew and the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever of you befriends them is one of them. Allah does not guide the people who do evil." Sura: 5:56 2

prove me wrong please
Strange, I have muslim friends. Ohhh!! I know, it's because I'm an atheist, not a christian or a jew!!

Prove this.
Read the Qua'ran. Visit cities as Paris or Berlin-Neukoeln or Duisburg-Marxlo. Try to flirt with a Turkish or Arab girl. I hope for you, you can run fast.

yet its their holy scriptures

You ca nbelieve in a part of a religion. You don't need to believe it all.

On Male Rule and Violence Against Women:

*

"God charges you, concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two females.." Sura IV,10-15
*

"Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them." Sura IV,35-40

Read the Qua'ran. Visit cities as Paris or Berlin-Neukoeln or Duisburg-Marxlo. Try to flirt with a Turkish or Arab girl. I hope for you, you can run fast.

I don't plan to do the second bit.

(Mainly because I can't run well.)

On Male Rule and Violence Against Women:

*

"God charges you, concerning your children: to the male the like of the portion of two females.." Sura IV,10-15
*

"Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them." Sura IV,35-40

Then the Muslims I know... simply disobey all of that...

Your country. It's that attitude that has caused endless wars. Without any respect or understanding, your worst off than them.
Respect has to be earned. They haven't earned it. Theres no reason to keep them here.

Stop watching Fox then. The mass celebrations were not just Muslim, but most Arab countries. I'm not sure if you realize this, but Americans are hated. You butt in to make a profit where you are not wanted and stir up a bees nest with the capture of Saddam. Then another nest is stirred up with a cartoon imaging an idol the Muslims have a strict code saying should not be made into an image. If you want the problems to cease, stop fucking everything you touch up. Just like a goddamn kid in a glass store...you're bound to break something.

Except -- AMERICANS had nothing to do with the cartoon.
That was Denmark.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670370.stm

Please get your facts straight.

Respect has to be earned. They haven't earned it. Theres no reason to keep them here.

Like I said, your worst off than them. Continue with your holier than thou attitude and things won't ever get better for you. And you'll just pass it off to your kids. World peace will never be achieved it seems.

except the muslims are the ones who want to burn everbody to the stake


No, dearie -- that was traditionally Christians.

Strange, I have muslim friends. Ohhh!! I know, it's because I'm an atheist, not a christian or a jew!!
honestly i wam only venting because it seems that we are only turning ablind eye to the world.. The christans had a holy war and look what happned BUT there are many diffrent types of christans so im not bashing the muslims but the fact that they hide behind a book that clearly says to kill and dont they do it?? look at the beheadings the muslims who live here are also in danger because the lreligous leaders are targeting them because they have "left to live in the evil west"

What?


If you cannot remember what you yourself have said earlier in this thread, I'm afraid this discussion will go nowhere since I'll have to keep reminding you.

Their own women are like holy cows. Not to be touched unless your married to them. Non muslim women however fair game. To be toyed with to their hearts content. Because non muslims are second rate citizens according to the Quaran. And how many reliable sources about rapes in Islamic countries do you have?

Okay, don't answer the question then. I love the generalizations though. How do you feel about Jews and Blacks? Don't be shy, don't be cowardly and don't try to put on a politically correct face. Let's hear your opinion.

Except -- AMERICANS had nothing to do with the cartoon.
That was Denmark.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4670370.stm

Please get your facts straight.

Never said Americans were involved with the cartoon. I just said another nest was stirred. Please, get yours straight.

*snip*

prove me wrong please

Cut and paste slander.

There are some not so nice passages in the OT as well.

Then the Muslims I know... simply disobey all of that...
the ones that live in western countires try to meet a muslim that lives in the Fanatically controlled countries see what he says

Ah right. Racialist..:rolleyes:
And yet again, a prime example of claiming victimisation as a weapon of defence.
ra·cial·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rsh-lzm)
n.

An emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events.
Policy or practice based on racial considerations.
Chiefly British. Variant of racism.

Why don't you dust off that old crooked Nazi-bat of yours.
Hey, so far you've been bashing yourself quite well.

What quotes would that be?
Todesfuge
Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken sie abends
wir trinken sie mittags und morgens wir trinken sie nachts
wir trinken und trinken
wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng
Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
dein goldenes Haar Margarete

er schreibt es und tritt vor das Haus und es blitzen die Sterne
er pfeift seine Rüden herbei
er pfeift seine Juden hervor läßt schaufeln ein Grab in der Erde
er befiehlt uns spielt auf nun zum Tanz

Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich morgens und mittags wir trinken dich abends
wir trinken und trinken
Ein Mann wohnt im Haus der spielt mit den Schlangen der schreibt
der schreibt wenn es dunkelt nach Deutschland
dein goldenes Haar Margarete
Dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

wir schaufeln ein Grab in den Lüften da liegt man nicht eng

Er ruft stecht tiefer ins Erdreich ihr einen ihr andern singet und spielt
er greift nach dem Eisen im Gurt er schwingts seine Augen sind blau
stecht tiefer die Spaten ihr einen ihr anderen spielt weiter zum Tanz auf

Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich mittags und morgens wir trinken dich abends
wir trinken und trinken
ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Sulamith er spielt mit den Schlangen

Er ruft spielt süßer den Tod der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
er ruft streicht dunkler die Geigen dann steigt ihr als Rauch in die Luft
dann habt ihr ein Grab in den Wolken da liegt man nicht eng

Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken
der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau
er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel er trifft dich genau
ein Mann wohnt im Haus dein goldenes Haar Margarete
er hetzt seine Rüden auf uns er schenkt uns ein Grab in der Luft
er spielt mit den Schlangen und träumet der Tod ist ein Meister aus
Deutschland

dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Sulamith
It says a lot that you would choose this one line out of a poem that says absolutely nothing nice about Germans - and make it a quote about a hardened, aryan hero who never misses a shot.

Secondly, Clausewitz' quote is meant to say something quite different to the use which you are obviously aiming at, considering the context of your other quotes and general demeanour.
http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/ECHEVAR/ECHJFQ.htm
Clausewitz's description of war as a "continuation of politics (Politik) by other means" is of course well known. But it is unfortunately interpreted to mean that war is merely an act of state policy brought forth to acheive a political aim. At least part of the confusion surrounding this misunderstanding stems from the ambiguity of the German term Politik, for it means both policy and politics. But Clausewitz, too, deserves some blame, for he neglected to define in simple language how he wanted this multivalent term to be understood. Indeed, German scholars and soldiers alike have puzzled over this question since the late nineteenth century. Historian Eberhard Kessel argued, for example, that, for Clausewitz, Politik consisted of subjective and objective elements. The former pertained to the choice or choices made by the political leadership regarding the type of war to be waged and the specific aims to be pursued. The latter involved the dominant ideas, emotions, and political interrelationships unique to a given time and place.*4

You're a German Nationalist, a German Supremacist, with racialist tendencies. You tell me what you would call that.

Ypur knowledge of nazis seems un ending were did you get all this information at your local skinhead club??:upyours:

Cut and paste slander.

There are some not so nice passages in the OT as well.
but christans follow the new testament

Ypur knowledge of nazis seems un ending were did you get all this information at your local skinhead club??:upyours:

Hes German and informed...is there a law against that?

Ypur knowledge of nazis seems un ending were did you get all this information at your local skinhead club??:upyours:

History.

And don't be rude.

sorry i got a little overwhelmed

sorry i got a little overwhelmed

Obviously...plus since your new you wouldnt see the irony in calling Neu Leonstein a skinhead. :p

sorry i got a little overwhelmed

At least you apologized.

So...was that about me just then?

one thing i would like to point out is that there seems to be a lot of muslims who have no choice but to follow a fanatic because the secret police would get you and it seems that all the muslims around the world who are causing problems are not in it for a solution

Obviously...plus since your new you wouldnt see the irony in calling Neu Leonstein a skinhead. :p
have you seen "THE BELIVER"

one thing i would like to point out is that there seems to be a lot of muslims who have no choice but to follow a fanatic because the secret police would get you and it seems that all the muslims around the world who are causing problems are not in it for a solution

Erm...

No. There's no "secret police".

Many rapists think that rape is an poetically just punishment for wearing "revealing" clothes. They know that their victim will be damaged by it. They see it as a just punishment for daring to wear such clothes.

Actually, that would be rapist apologists. You know, the kind of people who say "Yeah, she was raped. But she deserved it"

Most rapists, as is often argued on NS, do it because of power. The need to dominate someone utterly such as it is.

Erm...

No. There's no "secret police".
actually many muslim countries have a special force that monitors all non belivers and "helps" belivers who have left Islam

actually many muslim countries have a special force that monitors all non belivers and "helps" belivers who have left Islam

Proof, my friend, wins debates.

one thing i would like to point out is that there seems to be a lot of muslims who have no choice but to follow a fanatic because the secret police would get you...
Well, you're right and wrong.

In countries like Syria, Egypt and others, oppressive secular governments have taken out their oppositions, one by one. They out-nationalisted the nationalists. They out-socialisted the socialists. They out-reformed the reformers.
And then shot them all in the back of the head.

So the only opposition left now is the force that no earthly government can ever get rid off - religion. The Muslim Brotherhood and its sister-organisations are the only groups left to criticise the government. And they speak for the poor.

When governments like that of Syria then start fueling religious anger, as has happened with the Danish cartoon business, they do that because they try to out-evangelise the evangelists.

...and it seems that all the muslims around the world who are causing problems are not in it for a solution
"All" is the wrong operator here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4676524.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4682262.stm
http://www.thehindu.com/2006/02/07/stories/2006020705131400.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=376254&in_page_id=1770

http://www.zentralrat.de/3037.php

Actually, that would be rapist apologists. You know, the kind of people who say "Yeah, she was raped. But she deserved it"

Most rapists, as is often argued on NS, do it because of power. The need to dominate someone utterly such as it is.
so those muslims that are teated as secound class in denmark obviously see the "need " to dominate a helpless person in order to not feel like a low class person

So...was that about me just then?

Yepppp...he was offended that you knew German and about the Nazis, I guess...but he apologized.

have you seen "THE BELIVER"

Nope, why?

Christian held by Egyptian police
September 24, 2003
Egyptian Christian Bolis Rezek-Allah was pulled off an international flight this afternoon in Cairo, Egypt, and is being held by Egyptian secret police. Rezek-Allah, who had been granted an immigrant visa to Canada, was on the plane to leave Egypt when police arrested him.

His wife, Enas Badawi, a former Muslim who converted to Christianity, is also being sought by police but has not yet been apprehended. She had planned to eventually join her husband in Canada, but now is in hiding.

In Egypt it is illegal for a Christian man to marry a Muslim woman, and in the eyes of the police and government Badawi is still a Muslim, as they refuse to recognize her conversion.

“It is interesting that the Egyptian government has no problem with Muslim men marrying Christian women,” said VOM spokesman Todd Nettleton, “but they won’t recognize the right of Christian men to marry Muslim women. There is complete freedom for Christians if they want to convert to Islam, but no freedom for Muslims to choose to follow Christ.”

http://www.amcoptic.com/news_2003/egypt_police.htm

Christian held by Egyptian police
September 24, 2003
Egyptian Christian Bolis Rezek-Allah was pulled off an international flight this afternoon in Cairo, Egypt, and is being held by Egyptian secret police. Rezek-Allah, who had been granted an immigrant visa to Canada, was on the plane to leave Egypt when police arrested him.

His wife, Enas Badawi, a former Muslim who converted to Christianity, is also being sought by police but has not yet been apprehended. She had planned to eventually join her husband in Canada, but now is in hiding.

In Egypt it is illegal for a Christian man to marry a Muslim woman, and in the eyes of the police and government Badawi is still a Muslim, as they refuse to recognize her conversion.

“It is interesting that the Egyptian government has no problem with Muslim men marrying Christian women,” said VOM spokesman Todd Nettleton, “but they won’t recognize the right of Christian men to marry Muslim women. There is complete freedom for Christians if they want to convert to Islam, but no freedom for Muslims to choose to follow Christ.”

http://www.amcoptic.com/news_2003/egypt_police.htm

That page is unreliable.

Nope, why?[/QUOTE]
its a decent movie were a jewish boy who battles himself because he is a skinhead and belives the nazi propoganda based on a true story

That page is unreliable.
of course who would belive that this is happining?

of course who would belive that this is happining?

Use something reliable. Something like that would be all over. Here, three pages, including the one you posted and I'l lbelieve you.

what about this....
PAKISTAN: Christian Falsely Accused of Blasphemy Released After Five Years

on April 8th that Pakistani Christian, Parvez Masih, who was arrested and jailed under false blasphemy charges five years ago in April 2001, was released. After years of inhumane treatment, threats, beatings and trials, the headmaster of a private Christian middle school was found not guilty of violating Law 295C (blaspheming the prophet Mohammed).

When Parvez Masih’s Iqbal Memorial School (comprised of 25 Christian and 125 Muslims students in 2004) was gaining influence in a village near Lahore, Pakistan early in 2001, the jealousy of a Muslim group running a rivaling school was roused. Shortly thereafter, some of Parvez’ students asked him if it was true that Mohammed had a nine-year-old wife, to which he graciously mentioned her name, “Aisha,” while telling them to find more information about her from their religious leaders (Mullahs).

Based on the testimonies of two of the questioning boys, Parvez was arrested on April 1, 2001 and accused of blaspheming Mohammed under Law 295C. He was taken to a nearby river and told to deny his faith in Jesus at gunpoint on this date, but he would not. The accusations are believed to have been instigated by a teacher of the rival school. While in prison, eight cellmates have fought with Parvez many times, and he has suffered three police beatings.

On December 7, 2003, local Muslim leaders made a public announcement for community members to assemble against Parvez at the December 9th courthouse hearing to pressure the judge into making a quick guilty verdict. About 60 appeared at the courtroom, wanting the judge to hand Parvez over if a speedy conviction was not decided, but police drove the radical Muslims away.

During the trial(s), a witness for Parvez’ defense, Muhammad Yaqoob, was frightened by threats of the prosecuting party and withdrew his support from the case. The chief accuser in the case, Muhammad Ibraham, challenged another key witness, Muhammad Younas, “Why did you support the Christian?” to which he replied, “I only spoke the truth.”

is this also a fabrication.. seems like alot of detail was put in to it

what about this....
PAKISTAN: Christian Falsely Accused of Blasphemy Released After Five Years

on April 8th that Pakistani Christian, Parvez Masih, who was arrested and jailed under false blasphemy charges five years ago in April 2001, was released. After years of inhumane treatment, threats, beatings and trials, the headmaster of a private Christian middle school was found not guilty of violating Law 295C (blaspheming the prophet Mohammed).

When Parvez Masih’s Iqbal Memorial School (comprised of 25 Christian and 125 Muslims students in 2004) was gaining influence in a village near Lahore, Pakistan early in 2001, the jealousy of a Muslim group running a rivaling school was roused. Shortly thereafter, some of Parvez’ students asked him if it was true that Mohammed had a nine-year-old wife, to which he graciously mentioned her name, “Aisha,” while telling them to find more information about her from their religious leaders (Mullahs).

Based on the testimonies of two of the questioning boys, Parvez was arrested on April 1, 2001 and accused of blaspheming Mohammed under Law 295C. He was taken to a nearby river and told to deny his faith in Jesus at gunpoint on this date, but he would not. The accusations are believed to have been instigated by a teacher of the rival school. While in prison, eight cellmates have fought with Parvez many times, and he has suffered three police beatings.

On December 7, 2003, local Muslim leaders made a public announcement for community members to assemble against Parvez at the December 9th courthouse hearing to pressure the judge into making a quick guilty verdict. About 60 appeared at the courtroom, wanting the judge to hand Parvez over if a speedy conviction was not decided, but police drove the radical Muslims away.

During the trial(s), a witness for Parvez’ defense, Muhammad Yaqoob, was frightened by threats of the prosecuting party and withdrew his support from the case. The chief accuser in the case, Muhammad Ibraham, challenged another key witness, Muhammad Younas, “Why did you support the Christian?” to which he replied, “I only spoke the truth.”

is this also a fabrication.. seems like alot of detail was put in to it

Different incident. And no link!

of course who would belive that this is happining?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/22/plane.diverted.stevens/

www.undergroundusa.org/pakistan_news.html
vineyardfederalway.org/pages/missions/persecution/html/Pakistan.htm
www.pww.org.pk/detailcases3.asp
is this enough to at least show you the proof??

Nope, why?
its a decent movie were a jewish boy who battles himself because he is a skinhead and belives the nazi propoganda based on a true story[/QUOTE]

....And are you supposed to feel sorry for him? :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/09/22/plane.diverted.stevens/
because it is more sensational to have th US involved than what a 3rd world country is doing

its a decent movie were a jewish boy who battles himself because he is a skinhead and belives the nazi propoganda based on a true story

....And are you supposed to feel sorry for him? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
no it just shows how diffrent people can really be

www.undergroundusa.org/pakistan_news.html
vineyardfederalway.org/pages/missions/persecution/html/Pakistan.htm
www.pww.org.pk/detailcases3.asp
is this enough to at least show you the proof??

If those are reliable I will eat my hat, foot, and winter jacket.

Different incident. And no link!
sorry here it is
http://www.persecution.com/news/index.cfm?action=fullstory&newsID=396

If those are reliable I will eat my hat, foot, and winter jacket.
yet each story has the same person and incident mabey they are all in on a big conspiracy

because it is more sensational to have th US involved than what a 3rd world country is doing
No, because you are blaming a religion for the actions of a government.

yet each story has the same person and incident mabey they are all in on a big conspiracy

And yet they also are not considered reliable. I still don't believe you fo r the most part.

And please, please don't tell me you're a conspiracy nut.

Nothing hysterical about it. I spent most of my childhood in a town with a large population of muslims (Though not a majority) and they completely ruined the town, pulling it even further down the toilet than it ever was before.

<snip>
Just out of curiosity, before the Muslims moved in, who was pulling your town down the toilet? And after you get rid of all the Muslims, who will you want to get rid of next?

And yet they also are not considered reliable. I still don't believe you fo r the most part.

And please, please don't tell me you're a conspiracy nut.
Why does it frighten you??:eek: any way im not

Why does it frighten you??:eek: any way im not

No, it makes me raise my eyebrow. If it is put on a RESPECTABLE site, I'll believe you.

Oh, and good. But why do you believe this crap then?

No, because you are blaming a religion for the actions of a government.
but you at least know that their religon is part of the goverment you cannot deny that.. they have rules that prohibit women from showing their faces and this is not part of a religous law

but you at least know that their religon is part of the goverment you cannot deny that.. they have rules that prohibit women from showing their faces and this is not part of a religous law
In Egypt? (http://www.missegyptonline.com/)

Extremist Islam in Pakistan
Religious Atmosphere: Muslims make up 97.6% of Pakistan's 160,000,000 people.
Hindus make up 1.5% and Christians 1.7%. 70% of the Christian population is in
the poorest segment of society. The growth of the Christian church is calculated
at 3.9% and there is estimated to be 736 missionaries in Pakistan.

Extremist Groups:

There are numerous extremist Muslim groups currently operating within this
country. The government's inability to provide basic services in recent years
has left room for many of these groups to step in and assume various
responsibilities. These responsibilities include running clinics and hospitals,
setting up job training, providing dowries, and operating institutes of higher
education. In addition to the universities, these groups also operate madrassas,
which are Islamic schools whose curriculum often includes military/weapons
training. Most of these groups maintain their own cadre of fighters and even
give them battle experience fighting for Muslim causes in areas like
Afghanistan. The graduates of these madrassas are joining the junior officer
ranks of the military, a traditionally secular institution. Three of the main
extremist groups are Jamaat-e-Islami, Tanzeem Ilhwane-e-Pakistan,
Sipah-I-Sahabah and Lashkar-e-Taiba. All of these groups maintain popular public
support due to the services and hope they provide.

Government:

The constitution sets up Islam as the state religion.

Members of a religious minority are barred from ever holding the office of
President or Prime Minister by the constitution.

The voting system has been compared to religious apartheid. Individuals must
vote for the candidates of the same religion. As a result, religious minorities
are under represented at all levels of government. It also means that a Muslim
legislator can overlook members of religious minorities in their district
because they have no electorate power.
Conversions are not illegal but proselytizing among Muslims is prohibited.

Local law enforcement officials commonly fail to take precautions against
Islamic extremists abusing religious minorities or to investigate and prosecute
those responsible for such actions.

All Pakistani citizen are subject to a form of shari'a law, which was
introduced in 1991. These laws are based on Islamic laws and are not supposed to
apply to non-Muslims. Despite this fact, these laws have been applied in
disputes between Muslims and non-Muslims.

In a court of law, a Christian man's testimony is worth half of a Muslim man's
and a Christian woman's testimony is worth only a quarter. As a result, many
Christian women are raped and not able to obtain convictions against the
perpetrators. Quite often, the victim is charged with having illicit sexual
intercourse.

A high court ruling stated that if a woman converts to Islam, her marriage,
performed according to the rites of her previous faith, is null and void. There
have been reports of this law being exploited by individuals abducting young
women and forcing them to convert to Islam.

A law currently on the books, Section 295(c) of the Penal Code, applies a death
sentence to anyone who defiles the name of the Prophet Mohammed. This law only
requires the testimony of four Muslims for a conviction. It is laws like this
and the lack of proper law enforcement that encourages an environment were
Muslims feel free to use intimidation and violence against religious minorities
for personal gain as illustrated above.

Recent Actions:

Ongoing — Christians in Pakistan are generally the descendants of Hindu
converts in the 19th century. They often live in limbo in squatter type
settlements. Quite often they are being forced off their settlements as urban
renovation projects destroy their dwellings to make way for new buildings. As
they are allowed no land rights, they are thus being made homeless in large
numbers.

Ongoing – Christians who are accused of blasphey are often killed while
awaiting trial. Between 1990 and 1998 at least 5 Christians were murdered after
being charged with blasphemy. Mukhtar Masih was allegedly tortured to death in
police custody. Tahir Iqbal was poisoned while in prison. Bantu Masih, Manzoor
Masih, and Namat Ahmer were killed by armed attackers. Five Christians that were
acquitted on blasphemy charges left the country, fearing for their safety.

October 28, 2001 – Five masked gunmen with “bags of guns and bullets” (AK47)
rushed into Saint Dominic’s Church and opened fire on 60-100 worshipping
Christians, murdering 16 people and screaming “Graveyard of Christians –
Pakistan and Afghanistan,” “This is just a start,” and “Allah-u-Akbar” (God is
Greater). Four children, four women, and eight men were slain in the attack,
including the Pastor Emmanuel and a Muslim police officer, Mohammad Salim. On
the bullet-riddled wall above the bodies, a biblical epitaph was painted in red:
“We want peace, order and harmony.”

August 9, 2001 – The dead body of a 23-year-old Bible College student was found
outside of his church along with a letter that said “Stop Preaching to Muslims”.
The Christian man, identified only as Sheraz, was kidnapped on August 2 as he
left his place of work in Lahore. Militant Muslims are suspected in the murder.

July 25, 2001 – The Lahore High Court rejected the appeal of Ayub Masih, a
Christian sentenced to death by the Sahiwal District Court in 1998. There is
only one possible appeal left in this case. If the Supreme Court of Pakistan
does not overturn the ruling of the lower courts, Masih will be executed by
hanging. The death sentence is the maximum punishment under Pakistan Penal Code
295/c for blasphemy against the Prophet of Islam. However, no Christian has yet
been executed under the notorious blasphemy laws.

June 25, 2001 – Islamic extremists in Sabu Mahaal village robbed the home of
Christian Hamid Masih and also raped his wife. Hamid is the brother of Saleem
and Rasheed Masih, two men convicted of blasphemy in May of last year. Hamid has
been caring for his brothers’ wives and children. However, the family is now in
fear for their lives.

April 1, 2001 – Christian teacher Pervez Masih was arrested on charges of
blasphemy. Mr. Masih, who ran his own high school in Chailayke village, Sialkot
district, was accused of uttering blasphemous remarks against Muhammed during
tutoring sessions with three former students. It is believed that the teacher of
a rival high school has implicated Mr. Masih falsely in order to force the
school to close and gain the business for himself. Mr. Masih could face the
death sentence if found guilty under Blasphemy Law 295/c.

March 11, 2001 – The families of two men helping to support 8 Christian girls
who were raped in May of 2000 were threatened by Islamic extremists. Pastor
Fareed Masih and Ashiq Masih were not present at the time that the extremists
forcibly entered their homes and assaulted their family members, including
Pastor Fareed’s mother. The group left a message for the two men, saying that if
they did not stop supporting the Christian girls, they would be killed.

February 11, 2001 – 14-year-old Naira Nadia was kidnapped from her home in
Mariam-a-bad, Shiekhupura district, by Maqsood Ahmed Shiekh, along with a number
of other Islamic extremists. Mr. Shiekh was angered that Naira had dared to
share her faith in Jesus Christ with her school mates, including Mr. Shiekh’s
daughter. Thus, Mr. Shiekh and his armed companions kidnapped and brutally raped
the young girl. She is being held in an undisclosed location.

January 25, 2001 – Three Christians accused of blasphemy in 1998 were acquitted
by the Lahore High Court. Hussain Masih, Isaac Masih and Iqbal Sehar Ghauri were
accused of desecrating the Quran and uttering derogatory statements about the
Prophet Muhammed on November 25, 1998. A Muslim neighbor had filed a complaint
against the men after he supposedly found torn pages of the Quran and derogatory
remarks written on a piece of paper in his lawn. The court acquitted the men
after finding that there was no concrete evidence against the accused. The
Muslim neighbor, Ejaz Ahmad, is now being investigated for fabricating the
charges.

January 19, 2001 – After 8 days in prison Khalid Masih and Nasir Masih were
both freed when the other Christians in their group paid Rs. 60,000
(approximately $1000) bail. Both reported being beaten during their detention.
All 8 group members are scheduled to stand trial on January 30, 2001.

January 11, 2001 – Local Muslims leaders complained about a group of 8
Christians distributing Christian literature and copies of the Jesus film in
Jacobabad, northern Sindh province. Khalid Masih and Nasir Masih were arrested
on the charge that their materials were anti-Islamic and constituted blasphemy.
Shortly afterwards residents reportedly held protests calling for the arrest of
Pastor Yousaf Masih and Bruener Newton, the principal of Victor Public Secondary
School. The two men were accused of being part of the Christian literature
distribution. Principal Newton was also accused of distributing anti-Islamic
materials in his school.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.security.terrorism/browse_thread/thread/6ae15f95d7c3fb29/74b89231e7e464be%2374b89231e7e464be

In Egypt? (http://www.missegyptonline.com/)
no pakistan, egypt has started to move into a more "secular' goverment

Extremist Islam in Pakistan
Religious Atmosphere: Muslims make up 97.6% of Pakistan's 160,000,000 people.
Hindus make up 1.5% and Christians 1.7%. 70% of the Christian population is in
the poorest segment of society. The growth of the Christian church is calculated
at 3.9% and there is estimated to be 736 missionaries in Pakistan.

Extremist Groups:

There are numerous extremist Muslim groups currently operating within this
country. The government's inability to provide basic services in recent years
has left room for many of these groups to step in and assume various
responsibilities. These responsibilities include running clinics and hospitals,
setting up job training, providing dowries, and operating institutes of higher
education. In addition to the universities, these groups also operate madrassas,
which are Islamic schools whose curriculum often includes military/weapons
training. Most of these groups maintain their own cadre of fighters and even
give them battle experience fighting for Muslim causes in areas like
Afghanistan. The graduates of these madrassas are joining the junior officer
ranks of the military, a traditionally secular institution. Three of the main
extremist groups are Jamaat-e-Islami, Tanzeem Ilhwane-e-Pakistan,
Sipah-I-Sahabah and Lashkar-e-Taiba. All of these groups maintain popular public
support due to the services and hope they provide.

Government:

The constitution sets up Islam as the state religion.

Members of a religious minority are barred from ever holding the office of
President or Prime Minister by the constitution.

The voting system has been compared to religious apartheid. Individuals must
vote for the candidates of the same religion. As a result, religious minorities
are under represented at all levels of government. It also means that a Muslim
legislator can overlook members of religious minorities in their district
because they have no electorate power.
Conversions are not illegal but proselytizing among Muslims is prohibited.

Local law enforcement officials commonly fail to take precautions against
Islamic extremists abusing religious minorities or to investigate and prosecute
those responsible for such actions.

All Pakistani citizen are subject to a form of shari'a law, which was
introduced in 1991. These laws are based on Islamic laws and are not supposed to
apply to non-Muslims. Despite this fact, these laws have been applied in
disputes between Muslims and non-Muslims.

In a court of law, a Christian man's testimony is worth half of a Muslim man's
and a Christian woman's testimony is worth only a quarter. As a result, many
Christian women are raped and not able to obtain convictions against the
perpetrators. Quite often, the victim is charged with having illicit sexual
intercourse.

A high court ruling stated that if a woman converts to Islam, her marriage,
performed according to the rites of her previous faith, is null and void. There
have been reports of this law being exploited by individuals abducting young
women and forcing them to convert to Islam.

A law currently on the books, Section 295(c) of the Penal Code, applies a death
sentence to anyone who defiles the name of the Prophet Mohammed. This law only
requires the testimony of four Muslims for a conviction. It is laws like this
and the lack of proper law enforcement that encourages an environment were
Muslims feel free to use intimidation and violence against religious minorities
for personal gain as illustrated above.

Recent Actions:

Ongoing — Christians in Pakistan are generally the descendants of Hindu
converts in the 19th century. They often live in limbo in squatter type
settlements. Quite often they are being forced off their settlements as urban
renovation projects destroy their dwellings to make way for new buildings. As
they are allowed no land rights, they are thus being made homeless in large
numbers.

Ongoing – Christians who are accused of blasphey are often killed while
awaiting trial. Between 1990 and 1998 at least 5 Christians were murdered after
being charged with blasphemy. Mukhtar Masih was allegedly tortured to death in
police custody. Tahir Iqbal was poisoned while in prison. Bantu Masih, Manzoor
Masih, and Namat Ahmer were killed by armed attackers. Five Christians that were
acquitted on blasphemy charges left the country, fearing for their safety.

October 28, 2001 – Five masked gunmen with “bags of guns and bullets” (AK47)
rushed into Saint Dominic’s Church and opened fire on 60-100 worshipping
Christians, murdering 16 people and screaming “Graveyard of Christians –
Pakistan and Afghanistan,” “This is just a start,” and “Allah-u-Akbar” (God is
Greater). Four children, four women, and eight men were slain in the attack,
including the Pastor Emmanuel and a Muslim police officer, Mohammad Salim. On
the bullet-riddled wall above the bodies, a biblical epitaph was painted in red:
“We want peace, order and harmony.”

August 9, 2001 – The dead body of a 23-year-old Bible College student was found
outside of his church along with a letter that said “Stop Preaching to Muslims”.
The Christian man, identified only as Sheraz, was kidnapped on August 2 as he
left his place of work in Lahore. Militant Muslims are suspected in the murder.

July 25, 2001 – The Lahore High Court rejected the appeal of Ayub Masih, a
Christian sentenced to death by the Sahiwal District Court in 1998. There is
only one possible appeal left in this case. If the Supreme Court of Pakistan
does not overturn the ruling of the lower courts, Masih will be executed by
hanging. The death sentence is the maximum punishment under Pakistan Penal Code
295/c for blasphemy against the Prophet of Islam. However, no Christian has yet
been executed under the notorious blasphemy laws.

June 25, 2001 – Islamic extremists in Sabu Mahaal village robbed the home of
Christian Hamid Masih and also raped his wife. Hamid is the brother of Saleem
and Rasheed Masih, two men convicted of blasphemy in May of last year. Hamid has
been caring for his brothers’ wives and children. However, the family is now in
fear for their lives.

April 1, 2001 – Christian teacher Pervez Masih was arrested on charges of
blasphemy. Mr. Masih, who ran his own high school in Chailayke village, Sialkot
district, was accused of uttering blasphemous remarks against Muhammed during
tutoring sessions with three former students. It is believed that the teacher of
a rival high school has implicated Mr. Masih falsely in order to force the
school to close and gain the business for himself. Mr. Masih could face the
death sentence if found guilty under Blasphemy Law 295/c.

March 11, 2001 – The families of two men helping to support 8 Christian girls
who were raped in May of 2000 were threatened by Islamic extremists. Pastor
Fareed Masih and Ashiq Masih were not present at the time that the extremists
forcibly entered their homes and assaulted their family members, including
Pastor Fareed’s mother. The group left a message for the two men, saying that if
they did not stop supporting the Christian girls, they would be killed.

February 11, 2001 – 14-year-old Naira Nadia was kidnapped from her home in
Mariam-a-bad, Shiekhupura district, by Maqsood Ahmed Shiekh, along with a number
of other Islamic extremists. Mr. Shiekh was angered that Naira had dared to
share her faith in Jesus Christ with her school mates, including Mr. Shiekh’s
daughter. Thus, Mr. Shiekh and his armed companions kidnapped and brutally raped
the young girl. She is being held in an undisclosed location.

January 25, 2001 – Three Christians accused of blasphemy in 1998 were acquitted
by the Lahore High Court. Hussain Masih, Isaac Masih and Iqbal Sehar Ghauri were
accused of desecrating the Quran and uttering derogatory statements about the
Prophet Muhammed on November 25, 1998. A Muslim neighbor had filed a complaint
against the men after he supposedly found torn pages of the Quran and derogatory
remarks written on a piece of paper in his lawn. The court acquitted the men
after finding that there was no concrete evidence against the accused. The
Muslim neighbor, Ejaz Ahmad, is now being investigated for fabricating the
charges.

January 19, 2001 – After 8 days in prison Khalid Masih and Nasir Masih were
both freed when the other Christians in their group paid Rs. 60,000
(approximately $1000) bail. Both reported being beaten during their detention.
All 8 group members are scheduled to stand trial on January 30, 2001.

January 11, 2001 – Local Muslims leaders complained about a group of 8
Christians distributing Christian literature and copies of the Jesus film in
Jacobabad, northern Sindh province. Khalid Masih and Nasir Masih were arrested
on the charge that their materials were anti-Islamic and constituted blasphemy.
Shortly afterwards residents reportedly held protests calling for the arrest of
Pastor Yousaf Masih and Bruener Newton, the principal of Victor Public Secondary
School. The two men were accused of being part of the Christian literature
distribution. Principal Newton was also accused of distributing anti-Islamic
materials in his school.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.security.terrorism/browse_thread/thread/6ae15f95d7c3fb29/74b89231e7e464be%2374b89231e7e464be

I wonder why one isn't in an official news source.

Fake. You've been fooled.

no pakistan, egypt has started to move into a more "secular' goverment
Your first story was in Egypt.

At any rate, the law in Pakistan allows women to go without headscarves, if they so wish.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4861666.stm

funny, what do muslims say against christans and jews??
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6431

funny, what do muslims say against christans and jews??
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6431

Funny how that isn't respected either.

Those burkha's and stuff will be mandatory in Norway 70 years later. Because muslims will be a majority...

If the amount of Muslims you guys are importing doesn't drop off soon, it will be more like 10 or 15 years.

If the amount of Muslims you guys are importing doesn't drop off soon, it will be more like 10 or 15 years.

What's wrong with Muslims?

funny, what do muslims say against christans and jews??
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6431
I don't know. Could it be that their religion is one of hatred and war, and should be eliminated, their countries eliminated and their followers converted?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4841334.stm

although it is not pakistan but afghanistan who before alqida took over was a growing country

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4841334.stm

Hmm. You actually retaliated. Good job.

Hmm. You actually retaliated. Good job.
i know there is information just had to dig deeper

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4841334.stm
That's old news and has long since been resolved, you know.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,411903,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,400204,00.html
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,399965,00.html

i know there is information just had to dig deeper
Now, you stil lcannot prove all Muslims are that extreme.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2333085.stm
herers more

although it is not pakistan but afghanistan who before alqida took over was a growing country
"Growing", as in a Soviet colony? :p

"Growing", as in a Soviet colony? :p
they had you know luxuries like schools, hospitals, and electricity

This is very much not a solid board on which to base far-right wing views. Most Muslims abhor rape. There are a few loonies who must be deported, but I think for the most part it is better to educate the rest in liberal western ways so that they can become productive members of our society. Some, especially women, will also return to their nations of ancestry and show people there how much better life is in liberal Europe and in the ultra-conservative hell holes of the Middle East.

Heh,,,yeah good luck with that. Sorry to go totally un-PC on here but Islam, despite being touted as the religion of peace is actaully the most intolerant religion practiced today (aside from your fringe cults and paganists). As a Christian, I have my faith and you have yours. The difference between me and the fanatic Islamist is that I am not going to behead you for being an infidel. Heck even your looney tunes fundamentalist born again Christian who sends his weekly paycheck to Reverand Billy Joe Jim Bob stop short of chopping off heads to make a religious point. We stopped doing that sort of thing oh, about 450 years ago.

Perhaps Islam can catch up with the times.

"Growing", as in a Soviet colony? :p

Afghanistan was much better off under the Communists than under the warlords and the Taliban.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html
terrorist who use Islam as their main motivation..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2333085.stm
herers more
Before you start going overboard here...don't you think we know that radical Muslims exist?

The onus is on you to prove that their radicality actually is a result of their religion, that Islam itself is as bad as you say it is.

What you're doing is to take this (to quote one of your posted articles):
Hitler said: “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them…”
And say that therefore Christianity is a vile, genocidal cult of hatred.

they had you know luxuries like schools, hospitals, and electricity
You should do a little more research. Those luxuries were only available in the capital, and were destroyed when the communists took over and the Soviets invaded.
There is absolutely no way in which you can blame Islam for the fact that Afghanistan was destroyed.

Afghanistan was much better off under the Communists than under the warlords and the Taliban.
at least it wasnt step back 600 years with no hospitals and schools and electricity

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html
terrorist who use Islam as their main motivation..
Hehehehehe...you're using Bush quotes to prove a point. :D

Hehehehehe...you're using Bush quotes to prove a point. :D

Something wrong with that?

Does our leader lack credibility?

Hitler said: “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them…”
yet we took him down ... how many fanatical clerics have the muslims took down that supported war on the west

(Here, got to go to sleep now. Let's continue NS General Debate War 76596593 tommorow.)

yet we took him down ... how many fanatical clerics have the muslims took down that supported war on the west
That depends on who you count as "the muslims".

Suffice to say that you "took Hitler down", not because of religion or the genocide, but because of politics.

That depends on who you count as "the muslims".

Suffice to say that you "took Hitler down", not because of religion or the genocide, but because of politics.
but you pointed out he used the word christan in his sentence

Does our leader lack credibility?
Let him answer that:
"As you can possibly see, I have an injury myself — not here at the hospital, but in combat with a cedar. I eventually won. The cedar gave me a little scratch. As a matter of fact, the Colonel asked if I needed first aid when she first saw me. I was able to avoid any major surgical operations here, but thanks for your compassion, Colonel."
—George W. Bush, after visiting with wounded veterans from the Amputee Care Center of Brooke Army Medical Center, San Antonio, Texas, Jan. 1, 2006

the cleris say they are true muslims and do what is necessary to convert people-- christanity does not force you to convert or kill you if you dont because christianity is a religon of choice were the beliver must decide

Let him answer that:
if he is stupid to you then so what he was voted in by majority so he must be doing something right

And yet again, a prime example of claiming victimisation as a weapon of defence.

ra·cial·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rsh-lzm)
n.

An emphasis on race or racial considerations, as in determining policy or interpreting events.
Policy or practice based on racial considerations.
Chiefly British. Variant of racism.
Someone made muslims a race and didn't tell me about it?



Hey, so far you've been bashing yourself quite well.
Ah no. I leave that to you.



It says a lot that you would choose this one line out of a poem that says absolutely nothing nice about Germans - and make it a quote about a hardened, aryan hero who never misses a shot.

Secondly, Clausewitz' quote is meant to say something quite different to the use which you are obviously aiming at, considering the context of your other quotes and general demeanour.
http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/ECHEVAR/ECHJFQ.htm


You're a German Nationalist, a German Supremacist, with racialist tendencies. You tell me what you would call that.
It says nothing about me. They simply sounded cool. But it does say alot about you making these assumptions. I would stop that for that career as a fortune teller if I were you.

Heh,,,yeah good luck with that. Sorry to go totally un-PC on here but Islam, despite being touted as the religion of peace is actaully the most intolerant religion practiced today (aside from your fringe cults and paganists). As a Christian, I have my faith and you have yours. The difference between me and the fanatic Islamist is that I am not going to behead you for being an infidel. Heck even your looney tunes fundamentalist born again Christian who sends his weekly paycheck to Reverand Billy Joe Jim Bob stop short of chopping off heads to make a religious point. We stopped doing that sort of thing oh, about 450 years ago.

Perhaps Islam can catch up with the times.
Excuse me? Who are these "paganists" you speak of?

(:rolleyes: Don't tell me I'm going to have to have this argument in two threads now.)

[QUOTE=Von Witzleben]Someone made muslims a race and didn't tell me about it?
ya they did

Let him answer that:

Dude, I'm not gonna lie.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that.

but you pointed out he used the word christan in his sentence
:confused:
I pointed out that he used Christianity as a justification for his plans at times. Obviously that doesn't mean that Christianity has anything to do with the plans.

And I contend that the same is true for many "Islamic" terrorist groups.

And wasn't there a case of Christians blowing up an abortion clinic or something? Would that make Christianity a violent, terrorist religion?

if he is stupid to you then so what he was voted in by majority so he must be doing something right
Oh, you poor thing. Look, you're a new American. I was born here. Take it from me, he doesn't have to be doing anything right. This is the country where anyone can be president -- and I do mean anyone.

:confused:
I pointed out that he used Christianity as a justification for his plans at times. Obviously that doesn't mean that Christianity has anything to do with the plans.

And I contend that the same is true for many "Islamic" terrorist groups.

And wasn't there a case of Christians blowing up an abortion clinic or something? Would that make Christianity a violent, terrorist religion?

except that there seems like alot more islamic terrorist groups than Christans ex. HAMAS
Al-Qudia
taliban

Oh, you poor thing. Look, you're a new American. I was born here. Take it from me, he doesn't have to be doing anything right. This is the country where anyone can be president -- and I do mean anyone.

No they cant.

You have to be over 35 and domestic born.

Oh, you poor thing. Look, you're a new American. I was born here. Take it from me, he doesn't have to be doing anything right. This is the country where anyone can be president -- and I do mean anyone.
except me because i lived in a former commie country

Someone made muslims a race and didn't tell me about it?
In the same way that Jews are a race. As a faceless "evil", a generalisation that one can direct one's anger at and distract from one's own shortcomings.

It says nothing about me. They simply sounded cool. But it does say alot about you making these assumptions. I would stop that for that career as a fortune teller if I were you.
Claiming a lack of knowledge never works.
If you use a quote, I expect you to know exactly where it is from, and what it represents. And in this case, the "cool" is shooting Jewish prisoners whom he let dig their own graves first.

if he is stupid to you then so what he was voted in by majority so he must be doing something right
Would it perhaps say something about the majority? ;)

:confused:
I pointed out that he used Christianity as a justification for his plans at times. Obviously that doesn't mean that Christianity has anything to do with the plans.

And I contend that the same is true for many "Islamic" terrorist groups.

And wasn't there a case of Christians blowing up an abortion clinic or something? Would that make Christianity a violent, terrorist religion?
Indeed, a number of abortion clinics, and some even murdered some doctors. The bombers and shooters all claimed they did it because they were true Christians doing God's work. Their churches disagreed with them, of course. Nope, nobody's claiming they represent all of Chrisitianity or that Christianity teaches violence.

except that there seems like alot more islamic terrorist groups than Christans
Right...

Is that your proof? If it is, collect the data and do the statistical analysis. Isolate the parameter of religion and tell me whether it matters.

Or alternatively, read the book by someone who did something like that.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2005/07/03/why_do_suicide_bombers_do_it/?page=full
http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/0405/Jun13_05/03.shtml

In the same way that Jews are a race. As a faceless "evil", a generalisation that one can direct one's anger at and distract from one's own shortcomings.
Of which you seem to have many.


Claiming a lack of knowledge never works.
If you use a quote, I expect you to know exactly where it is from, and what it represents. And in this case, the "cool" is shooting Jewish prisoners whom he let dig their own graves first.
Where have I claimed lack of knowledge? I know where I got the quotes from and what they mean. And they still sound cool. No matter how much you get your panties in a twist.

except me because i lived in a former commie country
Don't give up hope. Arnold Schwarzenegger might fix that for you. And much happiness may it bring you.

In the same way that Jews are a race. As a faceless "evil", a generalisation that one can direct one's anger at and distract from one's own shortcomings.


Claiming a lack of knowledge never works.
If you use a quote, I expect you to know exactly where it is from, and what it represents. And in this case, the "cool" is shooting Jewish prisoners whom he let dig their own graves first.


Would it perhaps say something about the majority? ;)
like in any country a small group of people decide for everybody on what to do this includes
Republican party
HAMAS
Al-Quida
nazis
comminist
in all they are the same because we follow them as a trade off for jobs security food and shelter

Don't give up hope. Arnold Schwarzenegger might fix that for you. And much happiness may it bring you.
arnie is from a facist govt they HATE communist plus communist killed a majority of my family and took away all their wealth which was substancal

Of which you seem to have many.
And you think you will make me angry by insulting me?

Where have I claimed lack of knowledge? I know where I got the quotes from and what they mean. And they still sound cool. No matter how much you get your panties in a twist.
Oh, fair enough. But calling the execution of Jewish civilians "sounding cool" will get you a Nazi-tag, panties or not.

If you use a quote, I expect you to know exactly where it is from, and what it represents. And in this case, the "cool" is shooting Jewish prisoners whom he let dig their own graves first.

What quote is this and what number post was it where he posted it...I cant find it?

No they cant.

You have to be over 35 and domestic born.
I guess the sarcastic use of italics for emphasis was lost on the audience. I was thinking of the following quote from a famous American political journalist whose name escapes me, who said this about the crop of politicians running for office in his day: "When I was a boy, my parents told me that, in America, anybody can become president. I fear they may have been right."

2) What? I'm saying all muslims should leave europe...

Fucking racist.

And you think you will make me angry by insulting me?


Oh, fair enough. But calling the execution of Jewish civilians "sounding cool" will get you a Nazi-tag, panties or not.
you are just as responsible, did you know that bosnia had an ethnic cleansing going on and nobody cared-- only after hundreds of thousands of people were killed did you care or even aware of it probally not so that would make you a follower like the germans in WW2 when the nazis killed those people

What quote is this and what number post was it where he posted it...I cant find it?
It's in his signature.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10797274&postcount=296

like in any country a small group of people decide for everybody on what to do this includes
Republican party
HAMAS
Al-Quida
nazis
comminist
in all they are the same because we follow them as a trade off for jobs security food and shelter

No one follows Al-Queda for food and shelter...neither do they follow Hamas...those are terrorist groups.

And I sure as hell don't depend on shrub and his lackeys for my food and shelter.

I guess the sarcastic use of italics for emphasis was lost on the audience. I was thinking of the following quote from a famous American political journalist whose name escapes me, who said this about the crop of politicians running for office in his day: "When I was a boy, my parents told me that, in America, anybody can become president. I fear they may have been right."

Lol...yeah I missed it and nice quote by the way..:p

No one follows Al-Queda for food and shelter...neither do they follow Hamas...those are terrorist groups.

And I sure as hell don't depend on shrub and his lackeys for my food and shelter.
except HAmAs is now the leading group in palistinian govt

except HAmAs is now the leading group in palistinian govt

There is no government in that area, it's all controlled by the Isreali government, theres only the illusion of one.

you are just as responsible, did you know that bosnia had an ethnic cleansing going on and nobody cared-- only after hundreds of thousands of people were killed did you care or even aware of it probally not so that would make you a follower like the germans in WW2 when the nazis killed those people
a) I was a kid back then.
b) I don't get to make the decisions of what Germany or the EU does. I wish I did.
c) Not sure whether it really was hundreds of thousands. Possible though.
d) Not doing something about it is a different degree from calling it "cool".
e) And now the German Army, alongside many European nations, is in the region trying to keep the peace and settle the Kosovo conflict.

except HAmAs is now the leading group in palistinian govt

They use violence to acheive a political/religious end.

That's fucking terrorism.

There is no government in that area, it's all controlled by the Isreali government, theres only the illusion of one.
true so people follow them because there is no govt and they Do provide something

And you think you will make me angry by insulting me?
And you think by insulting me you automaticly win?


Oh, fair enough. But calling the execution of Jewish civilians "sounding cool" will get you a Nazi-tag, panties or not.
I put it in there cause it sounds cool. And not for the twisted fantasies of what your making out of it.
You wanna ''Nazi-tag'' me? Whatever. Believe what you want.
Don't forget to curse your grandparents should they still be alive.

It's in his signature.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10797274&postcount=296

Is it normal that I cant see quotes when I'm logged in and posting, but only when I'm logged out.

In any event I cant see his sig right now...could you post it?

a) I was a kid back then.
b) I don't get to make the decisions of what Germany or the EU does. I wish I did.
c) Not sure whether it really was hundreds of thousands. Possible though.
d) Not doing something about it is a different degree from calling it "cool".
e) And now the German Army, alongside many European nations, is in the region trying to keep the peace and settle the Kosovo conflict.
ok so lets try something newer how bout Africa?? are you doing anything to stop the ethnic cleansing there??

e) And now the German Army, alongside many European nations, is in the region trying to keep the peace and settle the Kosovo conflict.

Ehem...and America

And you think by insulting me you automaticly win?
You can take it as an insult, or not. I was merely stating the facts as I see them - everyone here will interpret them as they see fit.

thousands of people are dying right now how much must die before you care??\
its easy to label someone and harder to label your self

Is it normal that I cant see quotes when I'm logged in and posting, but only when I'm logged out.

In any event I cant see his sig right now...could you post it?
Here you go:

War is the continuation of politics using different means ~ Carl von Clausewitz

Diplomacy without power is like an orchestra without notes ~ Frederick II the Great

Brute force, if it's not working your not using enough.

"Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, sein Auge ist blau. Er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel, er trifft dich genau."
Paul Celan

ok so lets try something newer how bout Africa?? are you doing anything to stop the ethnic cleansing there??

It's not "us", first of all.

Besides, we tried to stop the violence in Somalia.

Look where it got us.

Ehem...and America

Yes, they are. What I think he's trying to do is state that the German Army, which was once a instrument of mass-murder, is actively trying to stop it now in the Balkens.

arnie is from a facist govt they HATE communist plus communist killed a majority of my family and took away all their wealth which was substancal
Come on, Unionist, even Russians aren't this grim and literal all the time. Arnie's an action movie star. In the US, this automatically makes him a joke, even while people are voting for him. That's how seriously we take our politicians -- we'd vote for the Terminator and laugh while doing it. We get pissed off at him later, but still it was funny at the time.

Oh, and at least officially, the US hates fascists as much as it hates communists. Officially, we're against racism and religious intolerance, too. Just mentioning.

I don't know if this is relevant or not but the US per capita number of rapes is 3.29 times higher than Denmarks per capita rate.

Here you go:

War is the continuation of politics using different means ~ Carl von Clausewitz

Diplomacy without power is like an orchestra without notes ~ Frederick II the Great

Brute force, if it's not working your not using enough.

"Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, sein Auge ist blau. Er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel, er trifft dich genau."
Paul Celan

Oh, alright..thanks. I love Frederick the Great..he has great quotes.

Also, is it normal for me to not be able to see quotes when I'm logged in?

It's not "us", first of all.

Besides, we tried to stop the violence in Somalia.

Look where it got us.



Yes, they are. What I think he's trying to do is state that the German Army, which was once a instrument of mass-murder, is actively trying to stop it now in the Balkens.
i see

Denmark has 2% muslim population. Yet they commit 68% of rapes...I think all muslims should return to their own countries....

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/62605.html

By this logic, humans should be forced to leave Earth. After all, we do commit 99.9% of all crime.

I don't know if this is relevant or not but the US per capita number of rapes is 3.29 times higher than Denmarks per capita rate.
the US is MUCh bigger so that means More people

thousands of people are dying right now how much must die before you care??\
its easy to label someone and harder to label your self

Good. Start labelling yourself ignorant, first of all.

Good. Start labelling yourself ignorant, first of all.
only after you label your self

By this logic, humans should be forced to leave Earth. After all, we do commit 99.9% of all crime.

But where would we go?

The Martians sure wouldn't appreciate us raping those beautiful blue Shick girls, would they?

the US is MUCh bigger so that means More people

You do know what per capita means?

only after you label your self

As what? Well-informed?

Sure, I'll do that.

I don't know if this is relevant or not but the US per capita number of rapes is 3.29 times higher than Denmarks per capita rate.

Well its not as we are talking about Denmark....but America has its own minority problems.


But thats another thread.....;)

But where would we go?

The Martians sure wouldn't appreciate us raping those beautiful blue Shick girls, would they?
uranus seems uninhabited plus lots of energy ie methane

the US is MUCh bigger so that means More people

It means that if Denmark were the size of the United States, the U.S. would have more than three times the rapes.

But where would we go?

The Martians sure wouldn't appreciate us raping those beautiful blue Shick girls, would they?

I figure we could shoot ourselves into the Sun. Afterall, we do come from the stars.

I don't know if this is relevant or not but the US per capita number of rapes is 3.29 times higher than Denmarks per capita rate.

The US also has 91.49 times more per-capita rapes than Saudi Arabia. I don't know if it's relevant either, but it sure is interesting.

Oh, alright..thanks. I love Frederick the Great..he has great quotes.

Also, is it normal for me to not be able to see quotes when I'm logged in?
Umm..no. Try adjusting your profile. You probably have something turned off.

uranus seems uninhabited plus lots of energy ie methane

And no solid surface.

And no breathable air.

And no way to get there.

And super-cold conditions.

the US is MUCh bigger so that means More people
You missed the point. The US rate PER capita for rapes is 3.29 times higher than Denmark's.

As what? Well-informed?

Sure, I'll do that.
one sees himself as right in his eyes just like stalin, hitler, osama , ho chi mhin and other various dictators/terrorist have

Is it normal that I cant see quotes when I'm logged in and posting, but only when I'm logged out.
You have to go into "profile" on the top left, and change it in "options".

In any event I cant see his sig right now...could you post it?
"Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, sein Auge ist blau. Er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel, er trifft dich genau." - Paul Celan
ie
"a master from Germany death comes with eyes that are blue
with a bullet of lead he will hit in the mark he will hit you"

This is the quote in question. The poem it is from is in my post from before. And here (http://www.artofeurope.com/celan/cel8.htm) is the translation.
If he had just used the whole poem, fine. But to take this particular line out of context says something IMHO.

ok so lets try something newer how bout Africa?? are you doing anything to stop the ethnic cleansing there??
Me?
No, the best I have done is repeatedly condemn it. As I said, I don't get to make political decisions a lot.

Ehem...and America
True.

You can take it as an insult, or not.
How could I interpret it in any other way?

The US also has 91.49 times more per-capita rapes than Saudi Arabia. I don't know if it's relevant either, but it sure is interesting.
Of course it is interesting and certainly relative.

one sees himself as right in his eyes just like stalin, hitler, osama , ho chi mhin and other various dictators/terrorist have

Are you comparing me to meglomaniacs, dictators, and mass-murderers simply because you are wrong and too afraid to admit it?

Seems awfully familiar.

And no solid surface.

And no breathable air.

And no way to get there.

And super-cold conditions.

we are industrious so pluto it is plus now that we would live closer we could either get along or kill each other faster:p

How could I interpret it in any other way?
Think about it.

"Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, sein Auge ist blau. Er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel, er trifft dich genau." - Paul Celan
ie
"a master from Germany death comes with eyes that are blue
with a bullet of lead he will hit in the mark he will hit you"

This is the quote in question. The poem it is from is in my post from before. And here (http://www.artofeurope.com/celan/cel8.htm) is the translation.
If he had just used the whole poem, fine. But to take this particular line out of context says something IMHO.

Paranoia can be treated you know. And I don't think the entire poem would have fitted in the sig.

we are industrious so pluto it is plus now that we would live closer we could either get along or kill each other faster:p

Perfect. Pluto has the same problems, it's just rocky and barren.

Think about it.
Tell me.

mabey one day when the war with china starts we will all think about this and laugh because history repeats it self

Paranoia can be treated you know.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”

And I don't think the entire poem would have fitted in the sig.
A link would. Two or three lines would. More than that one, specifically chosen line would.

Tell me.
I told you enough.

Perfect. Pluto has the same problems, it's just rocky and barren.
mabey the plutonians have already killed each other off??

mabey one day when the war with china starts we will all think about this and laugh because history repeats it self

Actually, China would most likely lose on the conventional front due to the fact that United States and Allied Forces are better trained and equipped than Chinese troops, who still use old ex-Soviet equipment.

Not that it will ever happen, because China's economy will go down the shitter if it loses it's business with the United States.

Actually, China would most likely lose on the conventional front due to the fact that United States and Allied Forces are better trained and equipped than Chinese troops, who still use old ex-Soviet equipment.

Not that it will ever happen, because China's economy will go down the shitter if it loses it's business with the United States.
throw in nukes and china not fighting USA but the middle east

throw in nukes and china not fighting USA but the middle east

Are you done taking this thread off topic?

Are you done taking this thread off topic?
not quite but im tired so to make you happy you win mabey ill win in another topic

not quite but im tired so to make you happy you win mabey ill win in another topic

What in God's name are you talking about?

You haven't won anything, you'll simply proved that you are completely ignorant and stubborn to most of the General-goers.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance”
So why are you then propagating I should stop beeing ''vigilant''?


A link would. Two or three lines would. More than that one, specifically chosen line would.
Which was the coolest sounding line in the entire poem.


I told you enough.
In other words you don't know.

What in God's name are you talking about?

You haven't won anything, you'll simply proved that you are completely ignorant and stubborn to most of the General-goers.
really its OK because a topic revolving religons in general can last years and still have no definite end

"Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland, sein Auge ist blau. Er trifft dich mit bleierner Kugel, er trifft dich genau." - Paul Celan
ie
"a master from Germany death comes with eyes that are blue
with a bullet of lead he will hit in the mark he will hit you"

This is the quote in question. The poem it is from is in my post from before. And here (http://www.artofeurope.com/celan/cel8.htm) is the translation.
If he had just used the whole poem, fine. But to take this particular line out of context says something IMHO.

While the poem is sickening...(how could anyone write about making people dig their own graves???) I find that part of his quote simply stands out and I dont know why, "death comes with eyes that are blue"...its just sounds very good, terrible...but sounds good.

Anyway, after reading this poem I have to say...these guys were more infatuated with light hair colors and blue eyes than I thought possible.

So why are you then propagating I should stop beeing ''vigilant''?
You know, maybe we're not that different, you and me.

Which was the coolest sounding line in the entire poem.
Only because it was playing to your ego.

In other words you don't know.
Tell me, since when would someone like you feel insulted if you were called a Nazi?

While the poem is sickening...(how could anyone write about making people dig their own graves???).
Well, he was a Jew, and he spent time doing forced labour. His mother is most likely the girl in the poem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Celan

What in God's name are you talking about?

You haven't won anything, you'll simply proved that you are completely ignorant and stubborn to most of the General-goers.
no i just havent accepted your views so that does not make me a General-goer
and i dont expect you to accept my ideas so relax and enjoy life:cool:

While the poem is sickening...(how could anyone write about making people dig their own graves???) I find that part of his quote simply stands out and I dont know why, "death comes with eyes that are blue"...its just sounds very good, terrible...but sounds good.
Ah. Finally someone who understands.
And it was Celans way of coping with the events of the holocaust.

Anyway, after reading this poem I have to say...these guys were more infatuated with light hair colors and blue eyes than I thought possible.
Celan wasn't ''one of those guys''.

And I wish you to live happily.

In North Korea.

You are no better than he is by saying that.

You know, maybe we're not that different, you and me.
Just on opposite sides it appears.


Only because it was playing to your ego.
If you want to believe that.


Tell me, since when would someone like you feel insulted if you were called a Nazi?
Someone like me.... what?

Ah. Finally someone who understands.
Lost in translation, I suppose. :rolleyes:

Actually, China would most likely lose on the conventional front due to the fact that United States and Allied Forces are better trained and equipped than Chinese troops, who still use old ex-Soviet equipment.

Not that it will ever happen, because China's economy will go down the shitter if it loses it's business with the United States.

So would America's economy. And with it, the West's.

Lost in translation, I suppose. :rolleyes:
Your just simply lost.

Someone like me.... what?
Well, Germany reached its greatest power under the Nazis. Everything that was Germany until then finally found its peak and fulfillment. No foreign elements were allowed. Discipline and self-sacrifice was put above the individual's right to live and let live. Politics was eliminated. Greed was eliminated.
Is that not everything you want to see in Germany?

You are no better than he is by saying that.

I think, perhaps, that you're missing the point.

Well, Germany reached its greatest power under the Nazis. Everything that was Germany until then finally found its peak and fulfillment. No foreign elements were allowed. Discipline and self-sacrifice was put above the individual's right to live and let live. Politics was eliminated. Greed was eliminated.
Is that not everything you want to see in Germany?
Your even dumber then I thought.

Your even dumber then I thought.
:D
Well...so the Federal Republic as it exists is okay then, I take it?

Ah. Finally someone who understands.
And it was Celans way of coping with the events of the holocaust.

I guess

Celan wasn't ''one of those guys''.

I was obviously talking about the Nazis, not the prisoners...

Well, he was a Jew, and he spent time doing forced labour. His mother is most likely the girl in the poem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Celan

Yeah just seems like something horrible to write about, in my opinion, thats all.

:D
Well...so the Federal Republic as it exists is okay then, I take it?
Minus the muslims it's just fine. Far from perfect though.

Minus the muslims it's just fine. Far from perfect though.

The sad, sad song of the reactionary.

The xenophobe.

The racist.

The Nazi.

The sad, sad song of the reactionary.

The xenophobe.

The racist.

The Nazi.
The sad, sad song of the mentaly deluded.

So would America's economy. And with it, the West's.

We COULD be self-sufficient, but what fun would that be? :p

Well, Germany reached its greatest power under the Nazis. Everything that was Germany until then finally found its peak and fulfillment. No foreign elements were allowed. Discipline and self-sacrifice was put above the individual's right to live and let live. Politics was eliminated. Greed was eliminated.
Is that not everything you want to see in Germany?

I'm gonna bold the stuff I dont like.

Cant one still admire Germany for his greatness..while still hating the Nazis?

I strongly admire the German war machine, the German willpower and the German motivation and aspiration...yet I only wish they had a non extremist government.

For example, in WWI..had we not went in against Germany, I would have supported Germany. In WWII, had German not been NAZI Germany...how could you not have admired and supported them?

The sad, sad song of the mentaly deluded.

The sad song of the stubborn bigot.

The sad, sad song of the mentaly deluded.

If you say so.

Sieg Heil!

You know what? the only FUCKING reason we have these problems is because of people like all of you. YOU'RE ALL FUCKING BLINDED BY RELIGION!!! why don't you get off ur carpets, get out of churches and just stop praying??? what has god done for you??? let thousands of people die. that's what. religion is the root of all evil alongside money. Don't you people understand? Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus... they all kill people because "the book says i can" Bull shit.

If the world were perfect, there would be no religion.

Open your eyes!!!

This issue really isn't about muslims, it's about rapists!!! send the rapists away!

If anything, adopt a peaceful religion like Shinto.

For example, in WWI..had we not went in against Germany, I would have supported Germany. In WWII, had German not been NAZI Germany...how could you not have admired and supported them?

World War I was a pointless war and should have never happened. Therefore, if World War I hadn't happened, Nazism wouldn't have rosen in Germany and most likely World War II (at least in Europe) would have never occured.

We COULD be self-sufficient, but what fun would that be? :p

Not much. Most of us would be poor subsistance farmers, slowly starving to death, while the rest would be rapists and murderers in the local 'militia'.

Minus the muslims it's just fine. Far from perfect though.
You're mystery.

What's with the politician-bashing then? The "end the occupation"? The "pay us for the patents you stole"? The links to websites calling for the restoration of "German dignity"? The reverence for the Wehrmacht?

From a political theory standpoint, that sort of thing is fascism (http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/MOD/mussolini-fascism.html). Hell, why would you choose the name for your nation that you chose? Von Witzleben was a fascist, even if he didn't like Hitler's way of doing things.

All these things, yet still a democrat? Still a liberal? How does that work?

Could you explain your view of the world to me, for future reference and so that I can finally understand you as you should be understood?

Cant one still admire Germany for his greatness..while still hating the Nazis?

Nope. If you admire German greatness in any kind which isn't conform to PC policies you get the Neu Leonsteins Nazi-tag.

You know what? the only FUCKING reason we have these problems is because of people like all of you. YOU'RE ALL FUCKING BLINDED BY RELIGION!!! why don't you get off ur carpets, get out of churches and just stop praying??? what has god done for you??? let thousands of people die. that's what. religion is the root of all evil alongside money. Don't you people understand? Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus... they all kill people because "the book says i can" Bull shit.

If the world were perfect, there would be no religion.

Open your eyes!!!

This issue really isn't about muslims, it's about rapists!!! send the rapists away!

If anything, adopt a peaceful religion like Shinto.

HEY LOOKIT ME! I'M A PISSED OFF ATHEIST! WOOO!

And, hey, dumbass, the book say Thou Shalt Not Kill. It's the people who say differently.

You know what? the only FUCKING reason we have these problems is because of people like all of you. YOU'RE ALL FUCKING BLINDED BY RELIGION!!! why don't you get off ur carpets, get out of churches and just stop praying??? what has god done for you??? let thousands of people die. that's what. religion is the root of all evil alongside money. Don't you people understand? Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus... they all kill people because "the book says i can" Bull shit.

If the world were perfect, there would be no religion.

Religion doesn't make men commit evils. It gives them excuses. No religion condones them.

If anything, adopt a peaceful religion like Shinto.

Peaceful, huh? Try telling that to the Chinese!

World War I was a pointless war and should have never happened. Therefore, if World War I hadn't happened, Nazism wouldn't have rosen in Germany and most likely World War II (at least in Europe) would have never occured.

World War I wasnt about IF it would happen, it was simply about WHEN it would happen.

If you have studied it in school you would know that there were multiple short term and long term causes for the outbreak of the Great war....it was going to happen.

Nope. If you admire German greatness in any kind which isn't conform to PC policies you get the Neu Leonsteins Nazi-tag.

Oh, such ironies.

Such sad, sad ironies....

Not much. Most of us would be poor subsistance farmers, slowly starving to death, while the rest would be rapists and murderers in the local 'militia'.

I'm talking economically self-sufficent, like we were in the post-war years.

I'm talking more Made-in-America types of things.

This may be a tad bit off topic but I though I'd post it anyway

I am an ex-muslim and I can tell you that the vast majority of muslims are good people. Islam however is a religion that is pure evil to the core (which is why I left it), I've read the quran and the Hadith and I can confidently say that the prophet Muhammad was not a good man.

The verses that terrorists use to justify their actions are not taken out of context at all. Take a look at these verses.

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Jiza is a tax to be imposed on non-muslims once they have been conquered)

9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

The majority of muslims are not aware of thses verses, since they read the quran in arabic without understanding the meaning of it, and even if they decide to read the english translations, they subconsciously come up with all sorts of reasons to justify these violent verses, hence the out of context, or relevance of time arguement...both of which do not really hold any water because those verses are perfectly clear and because according to islam muhammad was sent as a guidance to all mankind from that period of time onwards (which is why he's the final prophet and all).

As for rape, the prophet allowed it to be commited on female prisoners of war, here is one verse from the quran that supports this :

33:50
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Or perhaps I've taken this verse "out of context" as well:rolleyes: ...This is further supported by the Hadith ( The hadith is a biography of the prophet which muslims look upon as there second most holy text, next to the quran), one instance that I can recall is Bani Quraiza, this was a jewish town that the prophet decided to anhialate, once he captured it he had his followers bring the chief to him, and asked him to convert to islam, when he refused Muhammad cut off his head, that same night he forced the chiefs daughter to have sex with him. Here is part of that Hadith :

Here the Prophet married Safiyah. She was groomed and made-up for the Prophet by Umm Sulaim, the mother of Anas ibn Malik. They spent the night there. Abu Ayyub al-Ansari guarded the tent of the Prophet the whole night. When, in the early dawn, the Prophet saw Abu Ayyub strolling up and down, he asked him what he meant by this sentry-go; he replied: "I was afraid for you with this young lady. You had killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives, and till recently she was an unbeliever. I was really afraid for you on her account".

The prophet also married a 6 year old child named ayesha and consumated the marriage when she was 9 he was in his 50's at that time so to me that constitutes as rape. Here is one source of proof:

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4915 and Number 4915
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

As a muslim you are supposed to emulate whatever the prophet did, so don't be surprised by what some of the muslim fundementalists do, they are simply following the teachings of their disgusting faith.

Just so you know, I am not some mindless muslim hater, as I stated before, I am an ex-muslim who grew disgusted by his faith and left it, my problem is with islam, not with muslims.

P.S pardon me if my english was not up to standards, it is a second language to me.

World War I wasnt about IF it would happen, it was simply about WHEN it would happen.

If you have studied it in school you would know that there were multiple short term and long term causes for the outbreak of the Great war....it was going to happen.

Yes, I know Europe was a powder keg, I'm saying World War I specifically should have never happened. I never said anything about a different conflict occuring. It could have ruined, say, England, and we would have had Fuhrer Churchill threatening all of Europe, who knows?

What if scenarious are fun, come on.

HEY LOOKIT ME! I'M A PISSED OFF ATHEIST! WOOO!

And, hey, dumbass, the book say Thou Shalt Not Kill. It's the people who say differently.

Hey redneck. Piss off. Your "holy" people vs. their "holy" people. hmmm... who wins? the people who don't get involved with worshipping figments of some guy in the past's imagination, that's who. your president bush = protestant.

Don't get me wrong, religion has it's good points, but the things done in the name of religion? that's sad.

Nope. If you admire German greatness in any kind which isn't conform to PC policies you get the Neu Leonsteins Nazi-tag.

Eh, well I doubt any sane person would actually call me a Nazi...even if I do admire German greatness.

I dont agree at all with Nazi racial policy.

I dont agree at all with National Socialism.

I dont like big government.

I'm Jewish.


Yeah, I think I'm covered.

Hey redneck. Piss off. Your "holy" people vs. their "holy" people. hmmm... who wins? the people who don't get involved with worshipping figments of some guy in the past's imagination, that's who. your president bush = protestant.

Don't get me wrong, religion has it's good points, but the things done in the name of religion? that's sad.

My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend.

Yes, I know Europe was a powder keg, I'm saying World War I specifically should have never happened. I never said anything about a different conflict occuring. It could have ruined, say, England, and we would have had Fuhrer Churchill threatening all of Europe, who knows?

What if scenarious are fun, come on.

And all I'm saying was it would be IMPOSSIBLE for WWI to not have happend.

Hey redneck. Piss off. Your "holy" people vs. their "holy" people. hmmm... who wins? the people who don't get involved with worshipping figments of some guy in the past's imagination, that's who. your president bush = protestant.

Don't get me wrong, religion has it's good points, but the things done in the name of religion? that's sad.

I'm not a redneck. Nor do I support the Republican Party or President Bush. In fact, I'm fairly liberal. Maybe you should stop being so judgemental of other people's beliefs before telling them to "piss off".

Get off your high horse.

And all I'm saying was it would be IMPOSSIBLE for WWI to not have happend.

WWI the way it played out in history (Germany's economy ruined by a prolonged two front war and the heavy reparations of the Allies leading to the Weimer Republic which lead to the rise of Nazism which then lead to the Second World War as we know it), I'm saying. You're completely right about Europe's situation, I know.

Religion doesn't make men commit evils. It gives them excuses. No religion condones them.



Peaceful, huh? Try telling that to the Chinese!
Shinto has/had no more to do with the Japanese being vicious to people than Islam has to do with terrorism or Christianity has/had to do with gay bashing or witch hunts. And the Chinese are not models of pacifism and compassion either. Which of their religions would you blame for the cruelties in their history?

When are we going to get away from all these prejudicial labels/excuses and just hold individuals responsible for their own actions?

EDIT: Looking at your post without the quote in between, your statements contradict each other. If no religion condones violence, how can you label Shinto a violent, non-peaceful religion?

Peaceful, huh? Try telling that to the Chinese!

Ahh, but see the japanese didn't believe in shinto entirely, they also believe in buddhism. and if you do any reading, the japanese acted that way because: 1. their social hierarchy brought them up that way (the oppression from the higher chastes) 2. They had limited ways to release tense (from the social background) 3. They simply passed on the abuses that their commanders inflicted on them in boot.

Trust me, if you knew the simple harmony of Shinto, you would understand. Imagine sitting on a moss covered boulder and drinking tea while contemplating the meaning of your life, that is bliss.

WWI the way it played out in history (Germany's economy ruined by a prolonged two front war and the heavy reparations of the Allies leading to the Weimer Republic which lead to the rise of Nazism which then lead to the Second World War as we know it), I'm saying. You're completely right about Europe's situation, I know.

No, but....ahhhh...got it :D

I'm not a redneck. Nor do I support the Republican Party or President Bush. In fact, I'm fairly liberal. Maybe you should stop being so judgemental of other people's beliefs before telling them to "piss off".

Get off your high horse.

same goes for you. sorry for the redneck accusation, though.

Nope. If you admire German greatness in any kind which isn't conform to PC policies you get the Neu Leonsteins Nazi-tag.
HRE and before...fine. I'm fairly indifferent.
Prussia...fine. I'm usually quite supportive.
Bismarck...fine. I'm very supportive.
Wilhelm II....well if you want to support a buffoon like that, feel free.
Germany in WWI....fine. I'll generally take that side in debates.
Weimar Republic...fine.
Freikorps etc...not fine.
Hitler & NSDAP...not fine.
Drittes Reich...not fine.
Resistance (ie Stauffenberg, von Witzleben etc)...fine.
German engineering...fine.
Wehrmacht...not fine. The thing was a Nazi creation, don't kid yourself. There were some in it whom I admire, but most were Nazis or at least supporters. The Wehrmacht committed many war crimes, it is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents.
BRD...fine. Obviously.
DDR...not fine.
Neonazis, Skinheads, NPD, other right-wing scum...not fine.
Antifa...fine. :D ;)

Just for future reference.

1. their social hierarchy brought them up that way (the oppression from the higher chastes) 2. They had limited ways to release tense (from the social background) 3. They simply passed on the abuses that their commanders inflicted on them in boot.

Judging from Japanese atrocities in Naking, it's more of a lack of military professionalism and the simple fact that they didn't respect the Chinese that drove them to commit wanton acts of mass-murder and rape. Officer's actively encouraged slaughter of civilians and POWs alike, and the only man who actively discourage such acts, the supreme commander of the Japanese forces in the city, was confined to bed due to illness.

My invisible friend is better than your invisible friend.

LOL.

HRE and before...fine. I'm fairly indifferent.
Prussia...fine. I'm usually quite supportive.
Bismarck...fine. I'm very supportive.
Wilhelm II....well if you want to support a buffoon like that, feel free.
Germany in WWI....fine. I'll generally take that side in debates.
Weimar Republic...fine.
Freikorps etc...not fine.
Hitler & NSDAP...not fine.
Drittes Reich...not fine.
Resistance (ie Stauffenberg, von Witzleben etc)...fine.
German engineering...fine.
Wehrmacht...not fine. The thing was a Nazi creation, don't kid yourself. There were some in it whom I admire, but most were Nazis or at least supporters. The Wehrmacht committed many war crimes, it is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocents.
BRD...fine. Obviously.
DDR...not fine.
Neonazis, Skinheads, NPD, other right-wing scum...not fine.
Antifa...fine. :D ;)

Just for future reference.

Meredes Benz...fine. :p

Ahh, but see the japanese didn't believe in shinto entirely, they also believe in buddhism. and if you do any reading, the japanese acted that way because: 1. their social hierarchy brought them up that way (the oppression from the higher chastes) 2. They had limited ways to release tense (from the social background) 3. They simply passed on the abuses that their commanders inflicted on them in boot.

Trust me, if you knew the simple harmony of Shinto, you would understand. Imagine sitting on a moss covered boulder and drinking tea while contemplating the meaning of your life, that is bliss.

Oh no, where do I set my tea! My next mission in life is to find a moss covered boulder with a convenient nightstand.

Judging from Japanese atrocities in Naking, it's more of a lack of military professionalism and the simple fact that they didn't respect the Chinese that drove them to commit wanton acts of mass-murder and rape. Officer's actively encouraged slaughter of civilians and POWs alike, and the only man who actively discourage such acts, the supreme commander of the Japanese forces in the city, was confined to bed due to illness.

Yea, i kno. i got those reasons from "Rape of Nanking" by Iris Chang. that's the subliminal reasons. i forgot wht the commander who was sick's name, but i feel really bad for him because he took all the blame in the tribunals.

As for POWs it's the whole "Samurai honor" thing. japanese soldiers rather die in combat or suicide than be a prisoner.

You're mystery.

What's with the politician-bashing then? The "end the occupation"? The "pay us for the patents you stole"? The links to websites calling for the restoration of "German dignity"? The reverence for the Wehrmacht?
Because I think the BRD as a concept is "alright'' I can't dislike, or even hate, certain politicians? The end of occupation? Absolutely. NATO and all US bases have to IMO. The 2+4 treaty needs to be rewritten. Mainly article 3 putting a ceiling on how big the BW is allowed to be.
I'm not sure what links to ''restoring German dignity'' you mean specificly. But yes. I do find that a good cause. Like with that one fellow. Goldhagen. He can write the worst things about Germans and Germany. And teach it to his studentsAnd what happens? He gets the democracy price and teaches at Harvard. If anyone had written something even slightly similar about Jews they would be thrown in jail for Volksverhetzung. And forget about prizes. Or the articles in the sun. You think a campaign like that would be tolerated in the Bild for a longer period? Not much dignity there since they just swallow it.
So yes. It does need an overhaul.

From a political theory standpoint, that sort of thing is fascism (http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/MOD/mussolini-fascism.html).
No. Only from an overly PC pov it is.

Hell, why would you choose the name for your nation that you chose? Von Witzleben was a fascist, even if he didn't like Hitler's way of doing things.
Thats just the same old bull. They weren't REAL democrats, meaning left. So they weren't the right kind of democrats.

All these things, yet still a democrat?
Yes.
Still a liberal?
Not the American kind of liberal.

How does that work?
It works when you don't solely commit yourself to one branch/version of dogma.
You have to be...flexible.

same goes for you. sorry for the redneck accusation, though.

It's fine, try not to jump into a debate with a intent to flame next time, others aren't so forgiving.

One thing about the Jews and the Holocaust:

Hitler never really wanted to kill the jews, he just wanted them out. Nazism was self-destructive, meaning "If we can't win, we're taking everyone down with us." Nazi Germany's original stance with the Jews was "Get out of germany with your life, leave ur business and assets behind." then, as the allies began winning, they decided that the Jews had to be completely gone from German soil and thus began the "Final Solution."

It's fine, try not to jump into a debate with a intent to flame next time, others aren't so forgiving.

well, after reading around 30 pages of random religion bashing, neonazism, and that junk, i get ticked off.

HRE and before...fine.
Prussia...fine.
Bismarck...fine. I'm very supportive.
Wilhelm II....Fine
Germany in WWI....fine.
Weimar Republic...fine.
Freikorps etc...not fine.
Hitler & NSDAP...not fine.
Drittes Reich...not fine.
Resistance (ie Stauffenberg, von Witzleben etc)...fine.
German engineering...fine.
Wehrmacht...Generally fine. Exceptions excluded.
BRD...fine.
DDR...not fine.
Neonazis, Skinheads, NPD, other right-wing scum...not fine.
Antifa...Same shit as the one above. They just have a different color.

The thing was a Nazi creation, don't kid yourself. There were some in it whom I admire, but most were Nazis or at least
Ah. So the majority of the 15 million or so who served in the Wehrmacht were Nazi's or supporters?

No. Only from an overly PC pov it is.
You read the link, right?

Thats just the same old bull. They weren't REAL democrats, meaning left. So they weren't the right kind of democrats.
"Left"? Left as in allowing elections?

Not the American kind of liberal.
You will never ever hear me use that word to mean "leftist" when I'm serious. I've done enough political economics and polisci to know better.
I mean the kind of liberal that puts the individual first, that is all about "live and let live". That considers the mind of every one of us to be above all governments, nations, peoples, borders.
The kind that would respect a person's right to have any religion. The right of anyone who wishes to live anywhere to do so, as long as he or she doesn't violate anyone else by doing so.

It works when you don't solely commit yourself to one branch/version of dogma.
You have to be...flexible.
Flexibility in politics is also known as hipocrisy, you know. :p

Volkswagon?