NationStates Jolt Archive

Are you aware of the irony of complaining that parents are doing too much to protect their kids and then bitching that they are lazy and apathetic about their kids?
Are you aware of the actual content of my post?

I realise I wrote that thing kind of stream-of-consiusness, but the essential point was that spying is the lazy way out. To repeat one of my examples, you wouldn't let your kid go to the mall "alone" then tail them secretly. You would either take them there yourself, or you wouldn't let them go.

Modern technology can give parents the illusion that they can be there for their kids when they aren't around, and some of them take that as an excuse not to be around. Blocking and logging software is not a replacement for actual parental monitoring.

Does that make any more sense?

What are you, 14, 15? Adults only seem thick to adolescents. That's because your little adolescent brains aren't fully connected yet and the parts that are connected are awash in hormones. Your perceptions are physiologically skewed..

I bolded everything incorrect with your bullshit post.
Egotism is not going to save you from the fact you have no idea what you're talking about.

Finally, progress is made.
progress? I said the same thing I have been saying the whole time. I can't control my kids, I don't want to. I can guide them, and help them to make wise choices, and I intend to.

why would they?

I want my children to be themselves, they know that.

However by making them attend church, submitting to your husband in their presence, monitering their internet use and discussing it, and instilling your morals into them, surely that will be the ultimate result.

I bolded everything incorrect with your bullshit post.
Egotism is not going to save you from the fact you have no idea what you're talking about.

I am actually paraphrasing an article that was in Science News. It said that adolescent neural systems, particularly those governing emotions were in the process of connecting and were not fully functioning. It said that from the onset of puberty until about the age of 20, the adolescent though process (if it can be called that), between the incomplete functioning of the connections and the presence of elevated levels of hormones was largely non-rational.

Go argue with the scientists.

However by making them attend church, submitting to your husband in their presence, monitering their internet use and discussing it, and instilling your morals into them, surely that will be the ultimate result.
I don't make them attend church, in fact when my 4 year old decided not to go for a few weeks I didn't make her.

I submit to my husband because it is my choice, I do it in their presence, I do it when they aren't around too, I don't see how it is harming them.

I am not instilling my morals into them any more than what rules I have to keep them safe, and teaching them how to be respectful.

I am completely different than my parents, even though they tried to raise me to be like them, so how is raising my kids to be their own person going to make them like me? unless of course they choose to be.

I am actually citing an article that was in Science News. It said that adolescent neural systems, particularly those governing emotions were in the process of connecting and were not fully functioning. It said that from the onset of puberty until about the age of 20, the adolescent though process (if it can be called that), between the incomplete functioning of the connections and the presence of elevated levels of hormones was largely non-rational.

Go argue with the scientists.

Hormones affect your thinking.
But the very fact a mention to the size of brain was in that was utter rubbish.
A brain's size is relationed to its host body's mass and size.
The massiveness of a brain does not affect intelligence of thinking in the least.

I found the part about neural systems not being in-place for emotions until a person reaches the 'working force' age humourous.

I am actually paraphrasing an article that was in Science News. It said that adolescent neural systems, particularly those governing emotions were in the process of connecting and were not fully functioning. It said that from the onset of puberty until about the age of 20, the adolescent though process (if it can be called that), between the incomplete functioning of the connections and the presence of elevated levels of hormones was largely non-rational.

Go argue with the scientists.
Either those "scientists" can't resist taking cheap shots at younger generations, or you're mischaracterising their research. Take your pick.

I bolded everything incorrect with your bullshit post.
Egotism is not going to save you from the fact you have no idea what you're talking about.
You are not obliged to show respect, but you are obliged to show tolerance. Please tone down your responses.

What are you, 14, 15? Adults only seem thick to adolescents. That's because your little adolescent brains aren't fully connected yet and the parts that are connected are awash in hormones. Your perceptions are physiologically skewed.

That is one of the most insulting things I have heard in a long time. And you managed to direct it at everyone in my age bracket. Well done. Let's pick it apart shall we?

your little adolescent brains

If you are refering to real size, then that is totally incorrect, you brain stays the same size throughout your life, indeed it is at the largest part of it's very small growth at 15. If simply used to be condecending, then I'm not sure it is worth dignifying with an answer.

aren't fully connected yet

Unless you don't know, that's GOOD. It means your mind is open to new things, it allows you to expand your hardware in your mind to fit new challenges, apart from just the software which is all most adults can do. To keep in this state you must continue to exercise your brain. But you'll still never be any better at it than a teen.

parts that are connected are awash in hormones

Umm, no. No hormones penertrate the brain. Yes we have more hormones traveling through our bloodstream, and yes that can cause mood swings, but it can be and often is under control.

Your perceptions are physiologically skewed.
Same to you. But as a teen with a literal 'open mind', our perceptions are less skewed than yours. We are programmed to explore information and to worry it like meat, whereas an adult does much less of that, relying on old information to justify the experience.

That is one of the most insulting things I have heard in a long time. And you managed to direct it at everyone in my age bracket. Well done. Let's pick it apart shall we?



If you are refering to real size, then that is totally incorrect, you brain stays the same size throughout your life, indeed it is at the largest part of it's very small growth at 15. If simply used to be condecending, then I'm not sure it is worth dignifying with an answer.



Unless you don't know, that's GOOD. It means your mind is open to new things, it allows you to expand your hardware in your mind to fit new challenges, apart from just the software which is all most adults can do. To keep in this state you must continue to exercise your brain. But you'll still never be any better at it than a teen.



Umm, no. No hormones penertrate the brain. Yes we have more hormones traveling through our bloodstream, and yes that can cause mood swings, but it can be and often is under control.


Same to you. But as a teen with a literal 'open mind', our perceptions are less skewed than yours. We are programmed to explore information and to worry it like meat, whereas an adult does much less of that, relying on old information to justify the experience.

The brain is not a computer. The brain not being 'wired' properly does not make you open minded and receptive to new information. Open-mindedness is a personality trait.

Your perceptions are physiologically skewed, the exent of that, however, depends on the individual.

You are not programmed to worry information like meat, nor are adults programmed to rely on information and previous experience. The closest thing you have to programming are your basic animal instincts and your reflex actions.

The brain is not a computer. The brain not being 'wired' properly does not make you open minded and receptive to new information. Open-mindedness is a personality trait.

It is not miswired. It is like a computer that can still grow new wires. I was trying to explain that. And it can often bring about open-mindedness, and prejudices are not concrete within the mind.

Your perceptions are physiologically skewed, the exent of that, however, depends on the individual.

You are not programmed to worry information like meat, nor are adults programmed to rely on information and previous experience. The closest thing you have to programming are your basic animal instincts and your reflex actions.

By programming I meant the behaviour automatically exibited by the mind upon receving new information. It is an automatic process and much akin to instincts.

First of all: Go Moto! Woooooo! WOOOOOOO!!
Second: I know I'm not the first to point this out, but the case in question had nothing to do with the internet according to the site posted and some other site I saw it on.
EDIT: Found it. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/15/ok.missinggirl/index.html)
And if anyone is willing to argue it had anything to do with the internet, I provide you with this line from the article I linked above:
Police suspect she was selected simply because she walked past Underwood's apartment on Wednesday.

It is not miswired. It is like a computer that can still grow new wires. I was trying to explain that. And it can often bring about open-mindedness, and prejudices are not concrete within the mind.



By programming I meant the behaviour automatically exibited by the mind upon receving new information. It is an automatic process and much akin to instincts.

You also the brain grows only a tiny amount. Does this tiny amount affect whether one is open or close minded? Does that tiny amount of growth concrete prejudicess into place that were learned as a child? I wouldn't think so. As I said, open or close mindedness is a personality trait, I believe, and is more dependant than your upbringing and enviroment and experiences than your brain.

Yes, the brains reaction to new information would be automatic. But you are still wrong, adults and children do not react differently to information, or rather there brain does not. If I were to tell a 10 year old and a 50 year old that the sky was pink, their brains would recieve that information in the same way. How they act on it will differ, thought they'll both surely inform me that I'm mistaken.

First of all: Go Moto! Woooooo! WOOOOOOO!!
Second: I know I'm not the first to point this out, but the case in question had nothing to do with the internet according to the site posted and some other site I saw it on.
EDIT: Found it. (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/15/ok.missinggirl/index.html)
And if anyone is willing to argue it had anything to do with the internet, I provide you with this line from the article I linked above:

Ya, I think the fact that she knew him in real life came up already. I'm not sure. But the article got little mention in the discussion so far.

Personally, I'm for my (future) kids having computers in their own rooms. I will show them the same respect that my parents showed me - I won't check their e-mail, I won't snoop through their computers.

Then again, I believe in little things like 'parenting' and 'communication'. *shrug*

Ya, I think the fact that she knew him in real life came up already. I'm not sure. But the article got little mention in the discussion so far.
it's come up a few times, and I have explained a few times that he met her on the internet and moved into the apartment below her to get closer to her, or at least that's what I am hearing from the family.

I'm 15. I'm not going to show my parents evry single post i make here or on any other forum or on MSN. Really I think it all comes down to letting your kids know that the world is not perfect and that there are sick sad horrible people out there and that meeting up with people from the internet isn't the best idea... example there's no way I would meet up with anyone from NS unless I was in the middle of the crowded food court at a shopping centre on a busy day. It's safer if there's more people.

I can understand if you feel the need to check up on your kids sometimes but I believe that (if you have a good relationship with your kids) then showing you trust them is going to make them a whole lot more sensible. And eventually you're going to have to let them live for themselves move out of home and make all sorts of stupid decisions just like every other person in this whole world.

I'm 15. I'm not going to show my parents evry single post i make here or on any other forum or on MSN. Really I think it all comes down to letting your kids know that the world is not perfect and that there are sick sad horrible people out there and that meeting up with people from the internet isn't the best idea... example there's no way I would meet up with anyone from NS unless I was in the middle of the crowded food court at a shopping centre on a busy day. It's safer if there's more people.

I can understand if you feel the need to check up on your kids sometimes but I believe that (if you have a good relationship with your kids) then showing you trust them is going to make them a whole lot more sensible. And eventually you're going to have to let them live for themselves move out of home and make all sorts of stupid decisions just like every other person in this whole world.


/claps/

Well said.

I'm 15. I'm not going to show my parents evry single post i make here or on any other forum or on MSN. Really I think it all comes down to letting your kids know that the world is not perfect and that there are sick sad horrible people out there and that meeting up with people from the internet isn't the best idea... example there's no way I would meet up with anyone from NS unless I was in the middle of the crowded food court at a shopping centre on a busy day. It's safer if there's more people.

I can understand if you feel the need to check up on your kids sometimes but I believe that (if you have a good relationship with your kids) then showing you trust them is going to make them a whole lot more sensible. And eventually you're going to have to let them live for themselves move out of home and make all sorts of stupid decisions just like every other person in this whole world.
ah, but when I say kids I don't mean teenagers, I mean, kids like under 12. There is a huge difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old right?

ah, but when I say kids I don't mean teenagers, I mean, kids like under 12. There is a huge difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old right?


Ah, right well.. Under 12? Then yeah, children that young are likely to say something (like an adress) ignorantly.

/coughs/ Then again.. /stares at myspace/

it's come up a few times, and I have explained a few times that he met her on the internet and moved into the apartment below her to get closer to her, or at least that's what I am hearing from the family.
From the line I quoted obviously not, it seems like he decided on that specific victim shortly before he commited the crime.
Not to mention the word internet or anything related to it doesn't come up in either of those two articles.
And if there was some connection to the internet, the news would be sure to note it, it's one of those things they influence people to be excessively paranoid about.(violent video games, criminals who decide victims randomly, theres gotta be something else but I can't think of it)

Ah, right well.. Under 12? Then yeah, children that young are likely to say something (like an adress) ignorantly.

/coughs/ Then again.. /stares at myspace/
yeah, that's all I am saying. I wouldn't really go through my kids IM logs unless I was worried about them, although I might set it up to email me when they add a new buddy and check out who that is. (not that my kids are allowed to IM anyway)

From the line I quoted obviously not, it seems like he decided on that specific victim shortly before he commited the crime.
Not to mention the word internet or anything related to it doesn't come up in either of those two articles.

yeah, I probably shouldn't say too much more about what I found out from her family.
Even the news media says that he had this all well planned out ahead of time, and had chosen her as a victim weeks before he did this (as evidenced by his blogs, and his personal writings found in his apartment.

And if there was some connection to the internet, the news would be sure to note it, it's one of those things they influence people to be excessively paranoid about.(violent video games, criminals who decide victims randomly, theres gotta be something else but I can't think of it)
they are talking about it a lot around here.

Either those "scientists" can't resist taking cheap shots at younger generations, or you're mischaracterising their research. Take your pick.
Here's a nice summary of current thought about teen brain development:
http://www.lcsc.edu/ps205/inside.htm

And yes, teen brains are not wired the way adult brains are, nor are they processing information the way adults do (see Piaget for more details).

What is seen is that areas in the brain are starting to "light up" in ways that are close to adults, add in physical development that is close to adult stature, and the start of formal operations processing and you get teens who think they know more than they do and who feel they are ready for more than they are.

Thus is the complaint about teens who feel that they are indestructable and know everything born.

Now, honestly, many parents are too protective of their children at this stage, perhaps not seeing the daily changes that are occuring within their child, but many teens really do think they can handle more than they really can.

Trust me on this one, I teach junior high school. I can see my kids literally growing up, but, to quote Vader, they are not Jedi yet.

I'm sure than the teens in this thread are now going to yell at me about how I don't know and how they should be given more freedom, etc. (Teens forget that adults were teens too, adults don't wanna remember their teens years. ;) ), but I challenge you this: if you feel you've reached full adulthood now and will not change between your teen years and, say, 21; I invite you to wait till then and actually see.

If you have not, I will gladly buy you dinner and then kidnapp you for research because you will have bucked the trend and are worth studying.

Here's a nice summary of current thought about teen brain development:
http://www.lcsc.edu/ps205/inside.htm

And yes, teen brains are not wired the way adult brains are, nor are they processing information the way adults do (see Piaget for more details).

What is seen is that areas in the brain are starting to "light up" in ways that are close to adults, add in physical development that is close to adult stature, and the start of formal operations processing and you get teens who think they know more than they do and who feel they are ready for more than they are.

Thus is the complaint about teens who feel that they are indestructable and know everything born.

Now, honestly, many parents are too protective of their children at this stage, perhaps not seeing the daily changes that are occuring within their child, but many teens really do think they can handle more than they really can.

Trust me on this one, I teach junior high school. I can see my kids literally growing up, but, to quote Vader, they are not Jedi yet.

I'm sure than the teens in this thread are now going to yell at me about how I don't know and how they should be given more freedom, etc. (Teens forget that adults were teens too, adults don't wanna remember their teens years. ;) ), but I challenge you this: if you're a teen and feel I am wrong, wait till you're 21ish and come back. If you can honestly say that you haven't changed more between 16 and 21 in all that I said above, I will gladly buy you dinner and then kidnapp you for research because you will have bucked the trend and are worth studying.

Thank you.

I raised two children, a boy and a girl. I would not go through their teen years again for money. Neither would they. The drama, the arguments, the confrontations were more stressful than any job I've ever had. It's over now. They're grown and doing well, but it was touch and go.

yeah, I probably shouldn't say too much more about what I found out from her family.
Even the news media says that he had this all well planned out ahead of time, and had chosen her as a victim weeks before he did this (as evidenced by his blogs, and his personal writings found in his apartment.

Ok, gimme a source.

EDIT:
If you can honestly say that you haven't changed more between 16 and 21 in all that I said above,
This quote makes no grammatical sense. You'll have to fix it before somebody can take you up on this.

Ok, gimme a source.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1850202

as far as a source from what I hear from the family, I can't really post one since it's mostly been on the phone.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1850202
This/\ does not prove this \/ as it does not say anything about the victim or anything. It just says he was planning to do this to somebody quite a bit beforehand, which I never mentioned. I tried to imply that if it wasn't that specific victim during the planning, then he couldn't have moved there because he stalked her over the internet.

/snip/
Even the news media says that he had this all well planned out ahead of time, and had chosen her as a victim weeks before he did this (as evidenced by his blogs, and his personal writings found in his apartment.

EDIT:

This quote makes no grammatical sense. You'll have to fix it before somebody can take you up on this.
Sorry, trying to type and answer questions at the same time does not make for understandablity, especially when trying to switch between two different languages.

Any case, what I meant was that if you feel you've reached full adulthood now and will not change between your teen years and, say, 21; I invite you to wait till then and actually see.

At 18 when I left home, I felt that I had grown compleatly and was an adult, so on and so forth. When I turned 21 I realized that the me who went to college would not reconize the me who was 21. I reasoned very differently than I did previously. When I graduated, I was still further removed from myself as a teenager, but not nearly as far from the 21 year-old.

In my studies for human development, I learned that this growth is something everyone does, which is why I challenge you to prove differently. And why I say there will be a lot of people interested in studying you if you do so.

I don't think anybody's saying they won't change between now and 21. I think it's that they argue that they're still trustworthy enough now in spite of this.

I don't think anybody's saying they won't change between now and 21. I think it's that they argue that they're still trustworthy enough now in spite of this.
Actually what they seem to be arguing is that now they are as trustworthy as an adult and are as capable as an adult.

For a given value of adult of course. :p

Actually what they seem to be arguing is that now they are as trustworthy as an adult and are as capable as an adult.

For a given value of adult of course. :p
I haven't seen these people.
But if they do exist, it seems to be a moot point anyway, as the discussion seems to be about 1-12 year olds. So they've won anyway. Odd.

I don't think anybody's saying they won't change between now and 21. I think it's that they argue that they're still trustworthy enough now in spite of this.

True. A different version of you exists for each passing moment, you never stay the same deep down inside of you either.

ah, but when I say kids I don't mean teenagers, I mean, kids like under 12. There is a huge difference between a 9 year old and a 15 year old right?

Yep, understood:)

Thanks for support Amecian :fluffle:

Good idea.