NationStates Jolt Archive

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?

I don't have kids but if I did then yes, I would check what they look at on the internet, up to a certain age.

Actually, not up to a certain age, but when they can prove to me that they can use it responsibly, and not need me to check on them, then I'll stop.

I think you're perfectly justified in doing so - they're your kids, and their safety is your (and their father's) responsibility.

Kids are kids. It's when people start trying to treat them like adults that we get into difficulties.

As long as they're in your house, they should follow your rules. They might think it will never happen to them, but the age and experience of parents should be there to guide them until they're ready to guide themselves.

I am a kid myself and i am my own computer admin, no one else here can access any history on this computer. NOT EVEN ME it is set to clear all history logs, and delete all temporary files (to save diskspace, and for process of software developement, long story). I at this moment in time have 100% unfiltered access to teh web!! but no i am not a maniac, i am fairly confident in my computer use and feel safe when browsing or talking to people, i only use IM with people i trust, and use fake names on forums and the such, bet you wouldn't of guessed im not really called cheese penguins :p

But i believe it is all down to how much the parents trust their kids, if they trust them then fine, if not check up on them, also about how resposable the child is in relation to the freedom they are given.

I don't let my kids on the internet unless they're looking up something for school and, in that case, I am sitting right next to them.

I am a kid myself and i am my own computer admin, no one else here can access any history on this computer. NOT EVEN ME it is set to clear all history logs, and delete all temporary files (to save diskspace, and for process of software developement, long story). I at this moment in time have 100% unfiltered access to teh web!! but no i am not a maniac, i am fairly confident in my computer use and feel safe when browsing or talking to people, i only use IM with people i trust, and use fake names on forums and the such, bet you wouldn't of guessed im not really called cheese penguins :p

But i believe it is all down to how much the parents trust their kids, if they trust them then fine, if not check up on them, also about how resposable the child is in relation to the freedom they are given.
I would never let my kid have complete access to the internet, that's crazy. It's like leaving your 2 year old at the mall for a few hours alone. Besides, with me there to see what they are up to, if something weird does pop up then at least I can have an intelligent conversation with them about it.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?
you have a 4 year old!

you should no more leave her alone on the net than you would leave her alone at the mall.

and i believe that is a good rule of thumb. if you would not leave your child alone at the mall, you shouldnt leave your child alone on the net. when you do feel they are old enough to be out at the mall all saturday with their friends, you certainly should talk to them about keeping safe, what to look out for and what to do in case of emergency.

same on the net. your child shouldnt be tossed out into cyberspace with its pervs and predators without being armed in some way. they need to know to not give out too much info and to not believe too many stories.

they should never have internet access in their rooms. (well not until they are adults) the computer that does have internet access should be right in the middle of where ever the family hangs out. the screen should be viewable to anyone walking by and WHENEVER a window is minimized when you walk by, you should look at it.

as they get older and have proven some degree of net responsibility, you should allow them their own email account and some degree of privacy (just not in their own room.) after all, that 16 year old is soon going to be living out on his own and will need some experience in making his own decisions.

If the kid is over 10 and still talks to strangers, you haven't raised them right.

don't have kids, but have a gorgeous 14 sister (she's 12 yrs younger than me) who has herown myspace.

i check up on her site evey once and awhile, and if there was something "bad" (ie slutty pics, or just something that might get her the attention of undesirerables) I would completely call her on it and probably let my parents know too.

there is a thing as being too overprotective. i would never read my kids diary or something like that, but i would check up on him/her if need be (internet, parties, things like that) not because i don't trust them, its other people i don't trust.

i watched the news report on the same thing Smunkee was talking about and not only did it make me seriously sick to my stomach, but it made me completely worry about my sister even more.

one of the zillion and one reasons my husband and i decided against having kids

you have a 4 year old!
yeah, she is in the same room with me when she is on the computer and I can see her screen at all times. However, I work with parents of kids at church though who are much older and may end up having to give a class on how to check up on your kids. My 4 year old really doesn't go much of anywhere on the net (her own webpage, and a few educational sites) but this kid getting mad at me for telling his parents how to check the history and stuff really freaked me out, it makes me worry about what he actually is doing online. I am guessing it had something to do with the fact that I told his parents how to check his IM history and stuff.

Four year olds can use computers?
The hell?

there is a thing as being too overprotective. i would never read my kids diary or something like that, but i would check up on him/her if need be (internet, parties, things like that) not because i don't trust them, its other people i don't trust.
I probably wouldn't read her diary unless she gave me reason to worry, although my first step in a situation like that would be to actually talk to her, then maybe counseling, reading her diary being a last resort.

Four year olds can use computers?
The hell?
yeah, mine can. She can fix her own lunch, and knows how to program the DVR too.

if I ever produce offspring I would keep an eye on what they do through monitoring internet History and storing there MSN conversations (without them knowing) until there about 13 after that I think there is nothing you can do but hope they turn out for the best

I think I would only step in for big things though anything above porn for an 11+ son (mind you I’m only 16 and it shows that as you get older you get allot less liberal with kids)

note: none of your poll options fit me

yeah, she is in the same room with me when she is on the computer and I can see her screen at all times. However, I work with parents of kids at church though who are much older and may end up having to give a class on how to check up on your kids. My 4 year old really doesn't go much of anywhere on the net (her own webpage, and a few educational sites) but this kid getting mad at me for telling his parents how to check the history and stuff really freaked me out, it makes me worry about what he actually is doing online. I am guessing it had something to do with the fact that I told his parents how to check his IM history and stuff.
parents do need to know the basics of how to check up on their kids online. but they more need to stop being so stupid and take the computer out of their kids room and dont put up with any bullshit "but thats my private stuff" online.

as long as everyone knows the rules, its not snooping

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?
Stupid predators. Your generation really dropped the ball this time.


But wait a minute... your kid is not the admin of your computer yet? She's four for crying out loud, she could manage that computer way more effectively than you could.

I would never let my kid have complete access to the internet, that's crazy. It's like leaving your 2 year old at the mall for a few hours alone. Besides, with me there to see what they are up to, if something weird does pop up then at least I can have an intelligent conversation with them about it.
You should really get your porn from a legit site Smunkee. ;)

I'm guessing it all really depends on the age of the kids. My parents never really checked on me, I had it once or twice that I'd be chatting to someone and my mom would ask me who it was, but that's pretty much as far as it went. I'm not planning to have kids anytime soon, so maybe by that time I'll have a different point of view, but I don't think I'd want to be spying on my kid. Then again, it also depends on the personality of the child, some kids are just much more likely to get into these things than others.

Spying on your own family.
Well, I suppose you're just following in Bush's example.

Stupid predators. Your generation really dropped the ball this time.


But wait a minute... your kid is not the admin of your computer yet? She's four for crying out loud, she could manage that computer way more effectively than you could.
she has her own computer. Her dad is the Admin on it, I don't touch it much, it's slow. LOL. (I do check up on her history, even though I am right there with her whenever she is online)


You should really get your porn from a legit site Smunkee. ;)
:eek:

I wasn't talking about porn (which btw, I don't download/look at anyway). There is a long list of crap that might pop up that I would want to talk to my kid about.

Spying on your own family.
Well, I suppose you're just following in Bush's example.

wow Bush must be under all that American stereotype a loving father how nice:)

she has her own computer. Her dad is the Admin on it, I don't touch it much, it's slow. LOL. (I do check up on her history, even though I am right there with her whenever she is online)

:eek:

I wasn't talking about porn (which btw, I don't download/look at anyway). There is a long list of crap that might pop up that I would want to talk to my kid about.
What are in pop-ups these days, besides porn. Haven't had one in months.

Spying on your own family.
Well, I suppose you're just following in Bush's example.
not so much. Learning from my parents, they didn't pay any attention to what was going on in my life, and I ended up addicted to drugs at age 12. I would like to spare my child from that experience and the ones that led up to me trying drugs at 9, if I can help it. Keeping them away from pedophiles seems like a smart move.

What are in pop-ups these days, besides porn. Haven't had one in months.
Adverts for IM smileys, 'You have won a free iPod' (I don't want a fucking pie-squad, free or not)...erm, that's all I get.

What are in pop-ups these days, besides porn. Haven't had one in months.
not sure. We have pop up blocker, I was mostly talking about her checking her email, and you know when she googles stuff.

not so much. Learning from my parents, they didn't pay any attention to what was going on in my life, and I ended up addicted to drugs at age 12. I would like to spare my child from that experience and the ones that led up to me trying drugs at 9, if I can help it. Keeping them away from pedophiles seems like a smart move.
If one of your kids were trying drugs at around that age, and you found out, what would you do? I mean, I imagine you'd talk to them about it, and at least try to stop them, but wouldn't you feel a little bit hypocritical?

If one of your kids were trying drugs at around that age, and you found out, what would you do? I mean, I imagine you'd talk to them about it, and at least try to stop them, but wouldn't you feel a little bit hypocritical?
I would talk to them about it, I would get them couseling (in case something was going on that they didn't feel comfortable talking to me about) and I would do everything in my power to try to stop them. I woudln't feel hypocritical at all, I made some bad choices, I learned from them, I can help others not to fuck up so bad. Where is the hypocracy? I am not doing drugs now.

I bet my parent's felt like hypocrites when they gave me the "drugs are bad" speech and grounded me for stealing their meth.

The more you guard your children, the farther they rebel as they grow older.
I've seen it happen to a very religious boy before, now die-hard punk.

If one of your kids were trying drugs at around that age, and you found out, what would you do? I mean, I imagine you'd talk to them about it, and at least try to stop them, but wouldn't you feel a little bit hypocritical?
No. She'll say she fucked up, tell her the goarry details about all the fucked up shit she did while on drugs, and tell her daughter what the future holds when she gets addicted. Smunkee know from experience, so she will know that what she is saying is not BS.

The more you guard your children, the farther they rebel as they grow older.
I've seen it happen to a very religious boy before, now die-hard punk.
yep, very religious kid, turned punk, then satanist, then back.

I plan to equip my kids to make good choices, not to be the mom that follows them everywhere, however, it's not the same thing checking up on them online, that's actually dangerous, it would be irresponsible for me not to know what they were doing online.

don't have kids, but have a gorgeous 14 sister (she's 12 yrs younger than me) who has herown myspace.

i check up on her site evey once and awhile, and if there was something "bad" (ie slutty pics, or just something that might get her the attention of undesirerables) I would completely call her on it and probably let my parents know too.

Pixplzkthx. ;) j/k

Seriously, yeah kids aren't little adults and they shouldn't be treated as if they are, which means their activities (including online) are free to be restrained and supervised by their parents, with increasing slack being given as they merit it. It's called being a parent.

The more you guard your children, the farther they rebel as they grow older.
I've seen it happen to a very religious boy before, now die-hard punk.
There's a difference between keeping them from going on porn/drug/"Pro-Ana"/other miscellaneous harmful sites and monitoring their internet conversations for suspicious signs, and not letting them do anything at all even though they're capable of making that decision. I'm in the former group, myself. My parents were reasonable about making sure I was safe, and I plan on being reasonable as well, when I have kids. Under 13, you SHOULD monitor everything your child does on the internet actively. 13 is the legal age for joining most reputable sites (Yahoo, Hotmail, etc.) for a reason, IMHO. After that, monitoring passively is all that should be done, and if you see something suspicious, mention something like "an article in a [paper/magazine]" at dinner/while having family time about whatever it was you saw, and talk to your kid about it and what exactly it is, etc. so that your kids see the glamourous side AND the facts so they can make an informed decision.

i don't really know what i'd do if i had kids. when i was younger my dad used to check up on what sites i'd been on occaisionally but he hardly ever confronted me on them. it was embarrassing to be found out when he did but i wasn't particularly angry, it was just another annoying infringement on my desire for privacy as an angsty teenager. i was never in any potential danger on the net though cuz i never liked chat rooms or forums. i'm quite forgetful and, as my flatmate frequently tells me, i'm the most irresponsible person she knows (in terms of my own safety and well-being at least) so i probably wouldn't monitor my kids internet usage simply because it just wouldn't occur to me that it might be advisable, although i'd like to think i'd be at least a little more careful of my kids safety than i apparently am about my own.:)

Without knowing much about the deeper details, I'd say that treating the computer like the forbidden friut is the simgle best way to make sure that it gets used improperly. Teaching children that the internet is "bad" is like saying "don't steal any cookies from the jar. Oh, by the way, I just filled it with your favorite ones."

You can't hold their hand for their whole life, and if you try you end up damaging them more than if you had just let them live and learn. Dumb kids will do dumb things in perpetuity. Remember that idiot kid who jumped off his swing set with a bungee cord tied around his ankle because he saw it on TV that ended up crushing his skull on impact? How about some of the stupid things everyone around here who's survived into adulthood can recount.

This thread reminds me of the South Park episode where the parents bought all their children dorky helmets because they were afraid of kidnappings.

The more you guard your children, the farther they rebel as they grow older.
I've seen it happen to a very religious boy before, now die-hard punk.
I announced I was going to grow a mohawk once. My mom told me to die it green. My uncle offered to teach me how. I got bored.

Reverse psychology wins every time. And that said, I would not let my children on the computer more than they have to be. They can go read some books.

I don't have kids, but when I do I will monitor their Internet usage.

"In Soviet Russia, Mozzila keeps tabs on you!"

yes, thats right, lets make every kid live under the conditions of a 1950's USSR or a Current North Korea. (or a future USA... :P ) great idea indeed!

tools.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?

IMHO, children do not have privacy rights as long as they are living under their parents roof.

I'm not sure I have a firm opinion on it. I think that everyone, regardless of age, should have somewhere they can do something unsupervised - probably the best place for that'd be a diary at an early age and working their way up as they mature - though I'd never stick an age to anything. I matured much faster than my peers - if I was stuck in some age restriction, all I'd be is bitter for it, it wouldn't teach me anything. I certainly remember being annoyed at age classifications when I was just a few years younger. I grew up on a diet of "aliens" and other such movies, and haven't been affected by them in any negative way, so to be arbitrarily excluded from the cinema on some made up grounds that I wasn't mature enough just annoyed me.

To bring some conclusion to the point. I was never supervised on the net, at any age, though I only got access to it when I was about 16. My little brother is 13 and is equally unsupervised, but we both know not to be idiots.

Though I will say one thing. I've met up with several people from the internet, and none of them have been predators. I'm quite good friends with all of them. Some people have bought into the medias scaremongering a little too thoroughly.

It would depend on their age.
If we're talking elementary school, I would block IM and unsuitable pages. But I would not monitor what my kid does.
If we're talking teens, I wouldn't block or monitor anything any more. They are old enough to hang out with friends, they are old enough to go to the cinema, park, etc alone, so what point is there in monitoring what they do online???

You cannot watch children of that age 24h. It's not good for either of you.

I announced I was going to grow a mohawk once. My mom told me to die it green. My uncle offered to teach me how. I got bored.

Reverse psychology wins every time. And that said, I would not let my children on the computer more than they have to be. They can go read some books.

*lol

Didn't work with us.
My mom sat me and my two brothers down when we were in our teens (I was 16, my brothers are younger than me), and told us that we could shave off, dye and pierce anything we wanted. But if one of us came home with a tattoo, she'd freeze our pocket money.
I got a couple of piercings, so did both my brothers. One of them dyed his hair blue and got a mohawk, the other one dyed ot black and took to wearing makeup.
I got a tatto last summer :D

If the parents would have known what the kid was up to, this could have been avoided and the sicko could have been thrown in jail before commiting such a horrendous act. The internet is by no means a safe place and it should be treated by parents as such. As far as the killer goes, I say take him out like he took out that girl.

If the parents would have known what the kid was up to, this could have been avoided and the sicko could have been thrown in jail before commiting such a horrendous act. The internet is by no means a safe place and it should be treated by parents as such. As far as the killer goes, I say take him out like he took out that girl.

Yep. ;-;

Pixplzkthx. ;) j/k




ahhh, yeah, umm...no....;)

Logic: Monitoring the internet usage of children up until grade seven.
Stupidity: Monitoring the internet usage of children who are old enough to go out alone and are independant thinkers (This usually develops by Grade 7-8 at the latest)

Logic: Being aware of internet predators
Stupidity: Reading a few articles about them and locking down your computer like it's a gateway to your child's virginity.

Since parents know better than their children, they should monitor their children to ensure that they aren't doing something harmful or getting into trouble, and also to protect them. Since the government/police knows better than normal civilians, they should monitor them to ensure that they aren't committing any crimes or getting into trouble, and also to protect them. Ideally, everybody would be monitored and nobody would be able to do what that sick guy did again.

Are you parents really this protective? Seriously. We all aren't THAT stupid. But then again, your kids might not be as intelligent as I think. No offense. I'm not saying they aren't intelligent, I'm just saying they might not be, and that might be the reason why you monitor them.

Since parents know better than their children, they should monitor their children to ensure that they aren't doing something harmful or getting into trouble, and also to protect them. Since the government/police knows better than normal civilians, they should monitor them to ensure that they aren't committing any crimes or getting into trouble, and also to protect them. Ideally, everybody would be monitored and nobody would be able to do what that sick guy did again.
*shudder*
Big brother is watching you!

*shudder*
Big brother is watching you!

Is there anything wrong with that? It's not like Big Brother is going to pry into anyone's personal life or anything like that. He will, however, significantly decrease crime and protect everybody (except the criminals). Parent internet monitoring is microcosmic of a Big Brother ideology, and, as the article proves, it is worthwhile as long as there are people like that in the world.

they more need to stop being so stupid and take the computer out of their kids room and dont put up with any bullshit "but thats my private stuff" online.

Hell, yeah.

Yeah, I'm a kid and I wish my parents would monitor me a bit more closely...not suffocatingly closely but just enough to show they care.

If I had kids I'd let them do whatever the hell they want. I'm not going to get into my kids crap on the computer. Besides that, who am I to just get into what they do on the computer? Its the computer and the only thing on a computer that can harm anyone is being stupid enough to let someone know where you live when you don't know who they are.

As far as the killer goes, I say take him out like he took out that girl.

I prefer to think that if there is justice in the afterlife, he will experience what he did to her eternally.

Since parents know better than their children, they should monitor their children to ensure that they aren't doing something harmful or getting into trouble, and also to protect them.
This much I agree with.

Since the government/police knows better than normal civilians, they should monitor them to ensure that they aren't committing any crimes or getting into trouble, and also to protect them. Ideally, everybody would be monitored and nobody would be able to do what that sick guy did again.

I'm sorry, no. There is a reason why there are limits on what the government is allowed to do vis a vis searches and seizure of property.

I'm sorry, no. There is a reason why there are limits on what the government is allowed to do vis a vis searches and seizure of property.

They shouldn't be allowed to seize your property or enter your house -- that would be breaking and entering and theft, both of which are unlawful. They should, however, put video cameras everywhere so that they can see what everybody is up to.

They shouldn't be allowed to seize your property or enter your house -- that would be breaking and entering and theft, both of which are unlawful. They should, however, put video cameras everywhere so that they can see what everybody is up to.

Warrent says legal.
Cameras are invasion of privacy.
Anyone disagree here?

Lol Haiku response.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?


While I would back off being a comp security expert my kids better expect that they will be monitored when online. I will do it in a minamalist fassion but I will make sure they are safe

(Hey btw Smukville if you want some recomendations on monitoring your kids instant messages (all forms) and all kinds of neat stuff like that contact me ... that has been an in demand service for me for the last few years)

Wow, I just read the article and discovered the complete ignorance of calling this something to do with the internet.

The body of a 10-year-old girl was found in a plastic tub in her neighbour’s closet, and police said her death was part of his elaborate plan to eat human flesh.

She knew Underwood, who would entertain her with his pet rat on his shoulder, Kuykendall said. The night before her disappearance, Underwood offered to let her use the telephone to order a pizza, the prosecutor said.

Wow, you people are awful to think this article has the least to do with internet safety. She was murdered by her NEIGHBOUR she knew him in REAL LIFE. Please tell me how by peering into your child's chat logs with their friends is going to stop them by being lured by trustable neighbours?

Wow, I just read the article and discovered the complete ignorance of calling this something to do with the internet.





Wow, you people are awful to think this article has the least to do with internet safety. She was murdered by her NEIGHBOUR she knew him in REAL LIFE. Please tell me how by peering into your child's chat logs with their friends is going to stop them by being lured by trustable neighbours?
ROFLSAUCE!!!!!!!!

When I have them, I do plan to block and monitor computer use until such time as I feel they are smart enough to warrent taking the blocks down.

But they don't get admin rights till they buy their own computer and I will make sure to tell them that if I suspect anything, I can and will go through logs and install a key stroke monitor.

But mainly I think the best practice, as with all things, is actually talking with your child and setting the rules and boundries clearly.

Warrent says legal.
Cameras are invasion of privacy.
Anyone disagree here?

Yes. The laws prohibiting invasion of privacy via camera should be repealed if they haven't been already (what about traffic cameras and the like?). They are clearly detrimental to our society because they breed increased criminal acts and aid criminals in their desire to commit crimes. Pros: less crimes. Cons: the state might know that you like Tickle-Me-Elmo.

When I have them, I do plan to block and monitor computer use until such time as I feel they are smart enough to warrent taking the blocks down.

But they don't get admin rights till they buy their own computer and I will make sure to tell them that if I suspect anything, I can and will go through logs and install a key stroke monitor.

But mainly I think the best practice, as with all things, is actually talking with your child and setting the rules and boundries clearly.
There are better methods then a keystroke monitor but I know the idea and I agree in general

I will try to give them the max freedom that I think they can handle though unless they make me think otherwise

Trust me my kids wont want to come up against me in computer security

There are better methods then a keystroke monitor but I know the idea and I agree in general
Oh, I know. But I'm also not going to give them the full game plan and have them do an end run around on me either. ;)

I remember my own younger year well enough to know as soon as I knew what the security was, I found a way to bi-pass it.

I will try to give them the max freedom that I think they can handle though unless they make me think otherwise
Which is what parents should do. The conflict comes from the kids believing that they can handle more than they really can... and parents still thinking their child is the cute 3 year-old.

Oh, I know. But I'm also not going to give them the full game plan and have them do an end run around on me either. ;)

I remember my own younger year well enough to know as soon as I knew what the security was, I found a way to bi-pass it.


Which is what parents should do. The conflict comes from the kids believing that they can handle more than they really can... and parents still thinking their child is the cute 3 year-old.
Yeah ... well I remember where I was at at age 16 or so ... I am lucky I am not in prision lol

There are better methods then a keystroke monitor but I know the idea and I agree in general

I will try to give them the max freedom that I think they can handle though unless they make me think otherwise

Trust me my kids wont want to come up against me in computer security
its not really a matter of trusting your child. there is only so much trouble they can get into online (outside of breaking into the bank of american site and setting up a billion dollar bank account in the cayman islands)

its keeping your child safe from those who would get them into trouble.

same as leaving your child at the mall, you dont tell your 11 year old that she cant spend the day alone at the mall because you think she is going to shoplift marykate and ashely clothes, you dont let her go because someone might notice that she is alone and grab her.

your kids have to learn that not every "18 year old captain of the football team" is what he says he is. that not every dead person really dies. that not every person who needs help really needs help. that posting your picture and addresss online might lead to people showing up that you dont want at your house.

your 13 year old doesnt need to be having cyber sex with some 50 year old man via aim. she doesnt need to be receiving pictures of anyones penis.

sometimes she just needs to know you are paying attention.

that not every dead person really dies

Oh shit, zombies!

I told his parents how to check his IM history and stuff.
You can do that!?

its not really a matter of trusting your child. there is only so much trouble they can get into online (outside of breaking into the bank of american site and setting up a billion dollar bank account in the cayman islands)

its keeping your child safe from those who would get them into trouble.

same as leaving your child at the mall, you dont tell your 11 year old that she cant spend the day alone at the mall because you think she is going to shoplift marykate and ashely clothes, you dont let her go because someone might notice that she is alone and grab her.

your kids have to learn that not every "18 year old captain of the football team" is what he says he is. that not every dead person really dies. that not every person who needs help really needs help. that posting your picture and addresss online might lead to people showing up that you dont want at your house.

your 13 year old doesnt need to be having cyber sex with some 50 year old man via aim. she doesnt need to be receiving pictures of anyones penis.

sometimes she just needs to know you are paying attention.
This is true, but when I am talking trust, I also mean Net survival skills. They are just the same as survival skills in real life.

Eventually that daughter will be old enough to go to the mall on her own, but only when I (assuming it is my daughter) am convinced that she knows enough to keep her safe.

The line that needs to be walked is keeping her safe, but also letting her grow up.

There are plenty of ADULTS whose judgment of who they are with is poor and gets them killed -- how is a pre-teen to teen supposed to exercise better judgment of character than someone who supposedly has more experience than they do?

P.S. Being stalked is not fun.

This is true, but when I am talking trust, I also mean Net survival skills. They are just the same as survival skills in real life.

Eventually that daughter will be old enough to go to the mall on her own, but only when I (assuming it is my daughter) am convinced that she knows enough to keep her safe.

The line that needs to be walked is keeping her safe, but also letting her grow up.
Agreed ... said better then I was going to say

You can do that!?
Yes Easy

Logic: Monitoring the internet usage of children up until grade seven.
Stupidity: Monitoring the internet usage of children who are old enough to go out alone and are independant thinkers (This usually develops by Grade 7-8 at the latest)

Logic: Being aware of internet predators
Stupidity: Reading a few articles about them and locking down your computer like it's a gateway to your child's virginity.

We have a winner. :)

Yes Easy
Like what you type down, or just the times you were online?

There are plenty of ADULTS whose judgment of who they are with is poor and gets them killed -- how is a pre-teen to teen supposed to exercise better judgment of character than someone who supposedly has more experience than they do?

P.S. Being stalked is not fun.
I mean I understand this to a point

But just because some one is older does not "Set the bar" if it did I am pretty sure there is someone that is older then all of us has managed to also drop the ball therefore set the bar higher

I mean at some point it will be up to the parent to decide when the child reaches maturity in this respect

Like what you type down, or just the times you were online?
Give me 15 minuits on your machine not only will I know what you type but also what is sent to you

Not only that but it will Email or FTP me the contents of thoes logs

Hell if I wanted I could have it only log conversations with certian words present (such as "sex")

I mean I understand this to a point

But just because some one is older does not "Set the bar" if it did I am pretty sure there is someone that is older then all of us has managed to also drop the ball therefore set the bar higher

I mean at some point it will be up to the parent to decide when the child reaches maturity in this respect

Agreed -- but I've been hearing a lot of OMG you don't trust us you think we're stupid.

I'm saying we don't think you're stupid -- but you are less experienced and therefore more prone to lapses in judgement... and people who are confident in their judgment who have more experience have shown spectacularly that they were incorrect.

Give me 15 minuits on your machine not only will I know what you type but also what is sent to you

Not only that but it will Email or FTP me the contents of thoes logs

Hell if I wanted I could have it only log conversations with certian words present (such as "sex")

*looks shifty left and right*

dude, that's kinda creepy...useful, but well, creepy...

Give me 15 minuits on your machine not only will I know what you type but also what is sent to you

Not only that but it will Email or FTP me the contents of thoes logs

Hell if I wanted I could have it only log conversations with certian words present (such as "sex")
Keyloggers? My friend put one of those on my computer to hack into my Zone account.

*looks shifty left and right*

dude, that's kinda creepy...useful, but well, creepy...
I am a security consultant ... its my job to know :)

Sorry, Smunkee, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

There was no Internet when my kids were little, so this wasn't an issue for them and me. If I had younger kids now, I would hope I could know them sufficiently well that I could judge at what point I could trust each of them to make wise judgments about a variety of things. If, knowing them well, as I did with my other five, I would make a decision on when each of them could be trusted online. Until then, they would have access only to programs resident on our family PC.

Trust is a strange thing. Every day we make judgments on who to trust with what, when. Not only does a parent need to know when he or she can trust their children under what circumstances, but children need to know they can trust their parents to make wise decisions about what is best for them. It takes lots of good communication and true concern and compassion to make trust a constant in any relationship, especially between parent and child.

Keyloggers? My friend put one of those on my computer to hack into my Zone account.
Nope a bit more refined then that

This will break it down into log files that clasify it by times that you were chatting or instant messenger

You could not get all the info with a keyloger as you do with some of this ... a keyloger only gets what YOU typed

Usefull at times ... not in this case ... not only would you get too much info but also would be messy and only geting half the convo

Agreed -- but I've been hearing a lot of OMG you don't trust us you think we're stupid.

I'm saying we don't think you're stupid -- but you are less experienced and therefore more prone to lapses in judgement... and people who are confident in their judgment who have more experience have shown spectacularly that they were incorrect.
Thus is the eternal conundrum, just when is a child adult enough?

[QUOTE=Smunkeeville]-snip-[QUOTE]
I wouldn't, we've had a computer at my house ever since I was eight with full interenet and nothing blocked, I wasn't ignorant of these things aparently I am more responsible (and more paranoid as it seems) than most people on a computer but I would afford my kid the same rights as I had when I was younger.

I wasn't ignorant of these things, we were always taught about them at school we even and to sign something so that we could use the computers.

I wouldn't, we've had a computer at my house ever since I was eight with full interenet and nothing blocked, I wasn't ignorant of these things aparently I am more responsible (and more paranoid as it seems) than most people on a computer but I would afford my kid the same rights as I had when I was younger.

I wasn't ignorant of these things, we were always taught about them at school we even ad to sign something so that we could use the computers.
The problem is finding a balance ...

While I understand you happened to be lucky or smart or whatever and managed to both not make major bad decisions nor have someone else target you does not mean your kids will have the same luck

Just because I was not abducted as a kid in the mall does not mean that my kids will not have the good luck of not ever being approached by a stranger intent on abducting them

I want to make sure it is knoledge and wisdom that protects them when they get to that point not luck

I announced I was going to grow a mohawk once. My mom told me to die it green. My uncle offered to teach me how. I got bored.

Reverse psychology wins every time. And that said, I would not let my children on the computer more than they have to be. They can go read some books.
I want a mohawk. But I'd look ike shit with it. And my school doesn't let you dye it funky colour. Stupid authority. I'm a rebel with a cause. Wait. What I meant to say is that I read books equally to athe amoutn of learning I do on the internet. I'm not that fucked up... wait. I am on NS Gen aren't I?:p

yep, very religious kid, turned punk, then satanist, then back.

I plan to equip my kids to make good choices, not to be the mom that follows them everywhere, however, it's not the same thing checking up on them online, that's actually dangerous, it would be irresponsible for me not to know what they were doing online.
I thought that said then black I was very confused for a second.

Yeah, I'm a kid and I wish my parents would monitor me a bit more closely...not suffocatingly closely but just enough to show they care.
Same. But my parents are in their fifties and not exactly computer-savvy. My mum knows how to use Google and Gmail. My dad? He doesn't even know how to use a cell phone (an after thought I don't think my mum does either...)

*shudder*
Big brother is watching you!
It will be soon if you're a US Citizen...

I want a mohawk. But I'd look ike shit with it. And my school doesn't let you dye it funky colour. Stupid authority. I'm a rebel with a cause. Wait. What I meant to say is that I read books equally to athe amoutn of learning I do on the internet. I'm not that fucked up... wait. I am on NS Gen aren't I?:p
i was always tempted to try flouting those school rules, see how far the old 'freedom of expression' argument would get me. but i got bored.

Are you parents really this protective? Seriously. We all aren't THAT stupid. But then again, your kids might not be as intelligent as I think. No offense. I'm not saying they aren't intelligent, I'm just saying they might not be, and that might be the reason why you monitor them.

there is a difference between stupidity and inexperience. I know that my kids aren't stupid, but they don't have the "real life experience" that adults do, and nor should someone expect them to.

I work a lot with kids of all ages and up until about 13 or 14 they are very naive, being on the internet isn't the same as being out "in the real world" a lot of kids, esp. young ones assume that what people tell them is true, that nobody is really going to hurt them and that the people online are their friends.

I found out a few hours ago that I know (indirectly) this family, they are cousins of my friend, and the little girl was allowed to go on the internet without any warnings, supervision or even discussion with her parents, the friend I have said that this guy had been grooming her over the internet for months, and that is what scares me.

I am giving a talk at church next week about how to check the IM logs of your kids, how to find out if they have a blog and how to keep track of it, and how to see where they are online and what they are doing. I am also going to give a talk to the kids (and when I say kids, there are kids as young as 5 at my church on the internet, not including my 4 year old) about saftey online. I am trying to find a balance between scaring the hell out of them and actually giving them the info they need.

I am giving a talk at church next week about how to check the IM logs of your kids, how to find out if they have a blog and how to keep track of it, and how to see where they are online and what they are doing. I am also going to give a talk to the kids (and when I say kids, there are kids as young as 5 at my church on the internet, not including my 4 year old) about saftey online. I am trying to find a balance between scaring the hell out of them and actually giving them the info they need.
why would a kid keep those records if (s)he thought others were going to be reading them? IM logs especially are easy to delete/prevent.

Personally, I'd just have a talk with my kids every so often. In fact, I'm going to encourage them to talk with me about everything - I'll aim to have very philosophical conversations with them.

I know my kid is going to try to masturbate to porn on the internet (more if it's a boy than not), so I'm not gonna sit there going "No porn! None!" because he'll find a way, if not the internet then something else. If anything, I might instruct him on which sites to go to so that he's safe (this is age 15+, mind you - before that he's on his own) and doesn't infect the computer with spyware. I'll give him an example of what may be a 'fake girl' online, such as going on a yahoo chatroom and just talking with him while chatting and going "Dude... look, that one is so a 50 year old fatass, I swear." and we'll laugh about it and I'll tell him why I'm talking to him about this kind of thing, because that 50 year old fatass could try to trick him.

It basically comes down to having open communication with your children. The quicker they mature and understand things, the faster they can protect themselves when you're not around. If my kid's smart enough, he'll know better, and I'll make sure he knows better.


If it turns out I have a girl, then the whole gameplan changes and I'll just wing it.

why would a kid keep those records if (s)he thought others were going to be reading them? IM logs especially are easy to delete/prevent.
Depends are you using an independant application? to log or the application themselfs

Not only that some of the majors provide parental versions of the software which make it rather tough to fool with the logs (it can be done but yeah)

there is a difference between stupidity and inexperience. I know that my kids aren't stupid, but they don't have the "real life experience" that adults do, and nor should someone expect them to.

I work a lot with kids of all ages and up until about 13 or 14 they are very naive, being on the internet isn't the same as being out "in the real world" a lot of kids, esp. young ones assume that what people tell them is true, that nobody is really going to hurt them and that the people online are their friends.

I found out a few hours ago that I know (indirectly) this family, they are cousins of my friend, and the little girl was allowed to go on the internet without any warnings, supervision or even discussion with her parents, the friend I have said that this guy had been grooming her over the internet for months, and that is what scares me.

I am giving a talk at church next week about how to check the IM logs of your kids, how to find out if they have a blog and how to keep track of it, and how to see where they are online and what they are doing. I am also going to give a talk to the kids (and when I say kids, there are kids as young as 5 at my church on the internet, not including my 4 year old) about saftey online. I am trying to find a balance between scaring the hell out of them and actually giving them the info they need.


Again if you want some recomendations ... I have them :)

Do teenage girls masturbate to things on the internet?
A bit odd of a question but still a serious one.

why would a kid keep those records if (s)he thought others were going to be reading them? IM logs especially are easy to delete/prevent.
most of the kids that are inexperienced enough to get in trouble online also don't know how to disable IM logs, or clear out their history and cache. You wouldn't believe how many kids I know that I have been able to find their blogs online with just Google, and from their blogs I was surprised that all of them hadn't been kidnapped or killed yet.

There is a huge problem in my state with kids online meeting up with their "chat buddies" and getting sold into child prostitution, most of them end up going back home, but are still involved in the sex trade, they arrested just a few days back 3 adults who were running kids across state lines that they had met on the internet selling them on the streets. I know the internet isn't to blame for all the stupid crap kids do, but if me scaring the crap out of parents for them to wake up and pay attention to what the heck their kids are doing, then yeah, I will do it.


Oh, and my hubby pointed out over dinner that if they have myspace and their blog is public then they don't really have a leg to stand on with the "privacy" argument, since your parents can see it without any subterfuge.

most of the kids that are inexperienced enough to get in trouble online also don't know how to disable IM logs, or clear out their history and cache. You wouldn't believe how many kids I know that I have been able to find their blogs online with just Google, and from their blogs I was surprised that all of them hadn't been kidnapped or killed yet.

There is a huge problem in my state with kids online meeting up with their "chat buddies" and getting sold into child prostitution, most of them end up going back home, but are still involved in the sex trade, they arrested just a few days back 3 adults who were running kids across state lines that they had met on the internet selling them on the streets. I know the internet isn't to blame for all the stupid crap kids do, but if me scaring the crap out of parents for them to wake up and pay attention to what the heck their kids are doing, then yeah, I will do it.


Oh, and my hubby pointed out over dinner that if they have myspace and their blog is public then they don't really have a leg to stand on with the "privacy" argument, since your parents can see it without any subterfuge.

You would be amazed at what you can do with just a name

Even to an adult online

Social engeneering is alive and well ... some of my biggest hacks were done that way (I may not like the phone but it is amazing what you can trick corporate employees into with their name and an amazingly easy email address spoof)

You would be amazed at what you can do with just a name

Even to an adult online

Social engeneering is alive and well ... some of my biggest hacks were done that way (I may not like the phone but it is amazing what you can trick corporate employees into with their name and an amazingly easy email address spoof)
oh yeah, I know. It's frightening.


My husband was showing me how even though I have my IM logs turned off he can go in and show me all my conversations, if I didn't think the parents at church were so dumb about computers I would have them show him too. LOL

Social engeneering is alive and well ... some of my biggest hacks were done that way (I may not like the phone but it is amazing what you can trick corporate employees into with their name and an amazingly easy email address spoof)
And thus is phishing alive and well.

I don't know how many times I had to yell at people about that.

oh yeah, I know. It's frightening.


My husband was showing me how even though I have my IM logs turned off he can go in and show me all my conversations, if I didn't think the parents at church were so dumb about computers I would have them show him too. LOL
:) If you want to get really sneaky try something like chatwatch
http://www.zemericks.com/products/chatwatch/

Simple solution parents can use to easily keep track of such things

And thus is phishing alive and well.

I don't know how many times I had to yell at people about that.
Yup know the feeling :)

Do teenage girls masturbate to things on the internet?
A bit odd of a question but still a serious one.
yes.

but probably not the same ones that boys get off on.

yes.

but probably not the same ones that boys get off on.
what, like shoes and things? sorry, couldn't help it...

wow smunkee those are appalling statistics, especially since you suggest it is a statewide problem.

wow smunkee those are appalling statistics, especially since you suggest it is a statewide problem.

my state has a lot of problems, most of which are caused equally by the religious nuts and also the meth addicts. (although most of the time those are completely different groups)

Monitoring your children - whether on the net, watching television, the movies they see, the books they read or the friends they have, is part of parental responsibility.

The level of monitoring changes with the age and level of maturity of the child. I would no more let a four-year-old have access to everything on the internet than I would let him/her stick fingers in a light socket. But, as the child gets older, give proper guidance and grounding in values early on, the level should decrease. By the time they're 18, they should be have all the tools to make appropriate judgements, whether they actually do or not. If they don't have these tools at that age, it's too late.

Do teenage girls masturbate to things on the internet?
A bit odd of a question but still a serious one.

Well I had one that did.....

Do teenage girls masturbate to things on the internet?
A bit odd of a question but still a serious one.
Yes, but probably not to the same things that teenage boys do.

I think the whole snooping stuff is a bit much. I know I'll take a LOT of flak for this, but I'm not going to mince words. Let's say your 10-year-old girl is talking to some cannibal freak who's into German Scheisse porn. As long as you don't let her physically go anywhere with a stranger, the freak won't be able to harm her. If he does something that creeps her out, e.g. says something obscene, she'll probably block his ass. Hell, I get blocked all the time, and most of the people I talk to are in their late teens to 20's. (I'm 24, and I don't even get obscene.)

Most of what people talk about on AIM is pretty mundane stuff, talking about personal interests, plans for the future and the like.

Monitoring your children - whether on the net, watching television, the movies they see, the books they read or the friends they have, is part of parental responsibility.

The level of monitoring changes with the age and level of maturity of the child. I would no more let a four-year-old have access to everything on the internet than I would let him/her stick fingers in a light socket. But, as the child gets older, give proper guidance and grounding in values early on, the level should decrease. By the time they're 18, they should be have all the tools to make appropriate judgements, whether they actually do or not. If they don't have these tools at that age, it's too late.
I agree across the board *so far

I think the whole snooping stuff is a bit much. I know I'll take a LOT of flak for this, but I'm not going to mince words. Let's say your 10-year-old girl is talking to some cannibal freak who's into German Scheisse porn. As long as you don't let her physically go anywhere with a stranger, the freak won't be able to harm her. If he does something that creeps her out, e.g. says something obscene, she'll probably block his ass. Hell, I get blocked all the time, and most of the people I talk to are in their late teens to 20's. (I'm 24, and I don't even get obscene.)
and what happens when the freak moves into the apartment downstairs from her, to get closer to her (like he did in this case)

I think the whole snooping stuff is a bit much. I know I'll take a LOT of flak for this, but I'm not going to mince words. Let's say your 10-year-old girl is talking to some cannibal freak who's into German Scheisse porn. As long as you don't let her physically go anywhere with a stranger, the freak won't be able to harm her. If he does something that creeps her out, e.g. says something obscene, she'll probably block his ass. Hell, I get blocked all the time, and most of the people I talk to are in their late teens to 20's. (I'm 24, and I don't even get obscene.)

Most of what people talk about on AIM is pretty mundane stuff, talking about personal interests, plans for the future and the like.
I would not let my kid "Just talk" privatly to a stranger while Me or someone with apropreate athority and trust was around why would I let them the electronic equivelent?

I don't have kids. But I honestly couldn't see myself curtailing any hypothetical children of mine online. I have a pretty good idea of the general demeanour of my hypothetical children based on my observations of my siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews - and I'd put my money on the hypothetical perv landing up in an ICU on that basis.

what, like shoes and things? sorry, couldn't help it...
.
well a great pair of shoes at a really good price can be very .....stimulating...

I think the whole snooping stuff is a bit much. I know I'll take a LOT of flak for this, but I'm not going to mince words. Let's say your 10-year-old girl is talking to some cannibal freak who's into German Scheisse porn. As long as you don't let her physically go anywhere with a stranger, the freak won't be able to harm her. If he does something that creeps her out, e.g. says something obscene, she'll probably block his ass. Hell, I get blocked all the time, and most of the people I talk to are in their late teens to 20's. (I'm 24, and I don't even get obscene.)

Most of what people talk about on AIM is pretty mundane stuff, talking about personal interests, plans for the future and the like.

Actually that is a tad simplistic for a solution.

Women getting attacked happens much more then they will let on. Fifteen women I am related to, work with, or are friends have been attacked to some degree or another. Hell I learned a couple nights ago the husband of a baby sitter wacked off in front of my sister years ago.

Fact is keeping her from meeting the sick bastard sounds simple but it doesn't prevent him from stalking and grabbing her. All it takes is a name and an address.

well a great pair of shoes at a really good price can be very .....stimulating...
LOL! You nut! :p

If the kid is over 10 and still talks to strangers, you haven't raised them right.


I am nearly 19 and i talk to random people...and i am still ok...oh look candy! -runs over to white van-:rolleyes:

Joking aside...this man should be executed...this was brutal enough that i would allow a execution to occur

Fact is keeping her from meeting the sick bastard sounds simple but it doesn't prevent him from stalking and grabbing her. All it takes is a name and an address.And it's really easy to get an address if you talk long enough. I know this because I've talked to someone over the internets before, and I know I could find out if I wanted (not going to, but it's the ability that counts).

Snooping? Sure, do it; it helps protect them, keeps them safe. But when they're adults, perhaps they should be treated as adults - no longer do they need oversight, for good or ill. It's their job to do then, not the parents'.

The way I see it, there are two reasons that a parent might be interested in what their kid is doing online. Either they want to keep their kid safe from 'online predators' or to monitor the content they access(we all know what I'm talking about - the pr0n.)

The first reason is valid, it's difficult to fault someone who's simply protecting their child from bad people out there.

As to the second reason, I find the very idea loathesome. The right to free thought is one enshrined in every accepted code of Human Rights, including the UN Declaration of Human Rights (Article XVIII - "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion..." Article XIX - "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers"), of which every nation on Earth is a signatory. Free Thought is not free unless access to information is preserved. The content that parents try to block from their kids is information. Ergo, parents are trying to restrict the ability of their children to freely form thought and opinion by controlling access to information they deem unacceptable. This contravenes Human Rights as we know it.

Without strong evidence that access to such content is physically or psychologically harmful to children(and to the best of my knowledge, no such proof exists anywhere), one is forced to err on the side of Liberty and Human Rights and not monitor a child's online behavior if one's purpose is simply to control that child's access to information.

So my answer? Snoop on your kids perhaps when it comes to protecting them from online predators in chatrooms and whatnot. Do not use such snooping to control their access to content you may find distasteful.

When people's rights aren't respected when they are children, is it any wonder that they don't value them after they grow up and the government comes to take them away?

To the original poster, that kid was right, you were telling that kid's parents to spy on him.

The solution to the world's problems is not to put everyone under constant survalence "for their own protection". The solution is to teach responsiblity.

You don't need to monitor your kids' online activities if you've actually explained to them not to pot identifying information, and why you aren't supposed to do that. Treating your kids like they aren't capable of understanding reason, or worse, trying to protect them from the knowledge that there are bad things in the world is only going to breed resentment and make the world a more dangerous place for your kids.

If you really have so little trust for your kids that you feel you have to spy on their activities online, why are you letting them online unsupervised in the first place? Would you let them go to the mall alone, but then secretly tail them? Be honest with yourselves. Reading IM logs is spying just as much as picking up the phone in the other room when your kid is talking to his/her friend is spying.

If you don't think your kids should be trusted, don't let them do anything. If you do think your kids should be trusted, trust them. Don't go the half-assed route and monitor them secretly. All that will do is create bad blood.

I know everyone's too busy these days to spend time actually teaching their kids about how the world works, and to be there when your kids encounter a situation they have questions about, but that's no excuse to punish your kids for your own inability to be there for them.

When you decided to have kids, you accepted the responsibility to raise them and teach them what they need to know to function in the world, and I'm not going to give my blessing for you to be lazy, lousy parents who only tell their kids something important after they find out their kid's been into the information on their own.

If you're worried about sexual predators, explain that there are bad people online who will pretend to be their friend so they can get close to them and hurt them. This doesn't just apply online, but anywhere else as well. You explain to your kids not to take candy from strangers before a stranger comes along and offers, don't you? Then why not explain to your kids about the dangers that are there online before you find out they've been chatting with a child molester/canibal?

Seriusly, were parents always this lazy and apathetic toward how their kids growing up?

Are you parents really this protective? Seriously. We all aren't THAT stupid. But then again, your kids might not be as intelligent as I think. No offense. I'm not saying they aren't intelligent, I'm just saying they might not be, and that might be the reason why you monitor them.
I don't know, but it just might be your complete lack of tact that keeps you lonely. Did you read that before you posted it?

*snip the BS*
Seriusly, were parents always this lazy and apathetic toward how their kids growing up?
I'll let the parents on the forum have this one.

*sits back, munches popcorn*

Do teenage girls masturbate to things on the internet?
A bit odd of a question but still a serious one.
Yes, but as others have said, not to the same stuff. The stuff with a somewhat more realistic plot and some actual romance (Not just the woman stripping and sucking the guy off in the first 5 minutes) is more along female teenage 'taste' in pr0n. Images don't convey that, so they don't figure so strongly. Yay for Peer To Peer. xD

The way I see it, there are two reasons that a parent might be interested in what their kid is doing online. Either they want to keep their kid safe from 'online predators' or to monitor the content they access(we all know what I'm talking about - the pr0n.)

The first reason is valid, it's difficult to fault someone who's simply protecting their child from bad people out there.

As to the second reason, I find the very idea loathesome. The right to free thought is one enshrined in every accepted code of Human Rights, including the UN Declaration of Human Rights (Article XVIII - "Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion..." Article XIX - "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers"), of which every nation on Earth is a signatory. Free Thought is not free unless access to information is preserved. The content that parents try to block from their kids is information. Ergo, parents are trying to restrict the ability of their children to freely form thought and opinion by controlling access to information they deem unacceptable. This contravenes Human Rights as we know it.

Without strong evidence that access to such content is physically or psychologically harmful to children(and to the best of my knowledge, no such proof exists anywhere), one is forced to err on the side of Liberty and Human Rights and not monitor a child's online behavior if one's purpose is simply to control that child's access to information.

So my answer? Snoop on your kids perhaps when it comes to protecting them from online predators in chatrooms and whatnot. Do not use such snooping to control their access to content you may find distasteful.

You're not mentioning an age for these kids. 5 year olds should have access to porn, online versions of the Anarchist's Cookbook, and other such harmful sites? No, they should get guided closely until they've the maturity of a 12-14 year old (by their parents' judgement, not theirs) and then allowed free access with PASSIVE monitoring. As I've said before, watching passively (Just keeping a log of some kind of what sites they access, like the one that's built in to most browsers) is the way to go after 13ish, and if you see something controversial/that you blocked them from before, you mention something at the dinner table or during family time about some article in a magazine or newspaper about it, and then you explain the facts to your kid so they know both sides and can make an informed decision. You shouldn't hold your kid's hand right through to adulthood, but you should stand beside them after a certain age so that you can let them know the good and the bad sides of things in life.

Here's an even better question;
Why the hell are you even letting a five year old use the computer?

Christ, it wasn't until I was around seven that we got a computer. And not until ten that we purchased a dial-up connection. Is there really any purpose to letting a child that young use a computer, most young kids I've seen on computers in the past just play Dora The Explorer or some kind of game like that for hours on end.

Yeah, no shit giving them access to such a wide-spread sea of information can lead to them going where they shouldn't. So maybe you should just restrict them from the internet instead of spying on them like a creep. Your child wouldn't even know it if she found a bad website, I doubt a 4-5 year old can comprehend terrorism and anarchism, porn is beyond them for years to come, most children that young don't even know what a penis is.

Oh yes, I'd love to see what happens when your child discovers you've been spying on them for years of their life. If it were me, I'd get the fuck away from those twisted parents as fast as possible, that or ignore them for years of my life.

My parents weren't computer-savvy enough to do anymore than look at what I was doing. Well they still aren't, but they don't try and see what I'm doing much anymore. At this stage I'm the go-to-guy when it comes to the computer. And I'm not even all that great with the damn things, I'm just better than them or my sister.

There's one thing about this topic - most kids know more about their home computer than the parents do (unless the parents are switched on about computers). Some parents think you can install some magic software which blocks all the bad stuff - and find out the kids can disable it easily.

There's one thing about this topic - most kids know more about their home computer than the parents do (unless the parents are switched on about computers). Some parents think you can install some magic software which blocks all the bad stuff - and find out the kids can disable it easily.
Agreed ...

Some how I wont feel sorry for my kids though :)

Agreed ...

Some how I wont feel sorry for my kids though :)

Bad luck for the kids if the parents are IT Administrators. :p

Here's an even better question;
Why the hell are you even letting a five year old use the computer?

Christ, it wasn't until I was around seven that we got a computer. And not until ten that we purchased a dial-up connection. Is there really any purpose to letting a child that young use a computer, most young kids I've seen on computers in the past just play Dora The Explorer or some kind of game like that for hours on end.

Yeah, no shit giving them access to such a wide-spread sea of information can lead to them going where they shouldn't. So maybe you should just restrict them from the internet instead of spying on them like a creep. Your child wouldn't even know it if she found a bad website, I doubt a 4-5 year old can comprehend terrorism and anarchism, porn is beyond them for years to come, most children that young don't even know what a penis is.

Oh yes, I'd love to see what happens when your child discovers you've been spying on them for years of their life. If it were me, I'd get the fuck away from those twisted parents as fast as possible, that or ignore them for years of my life.

Im not sure in your or this scenaro that it is the parents that are twisted. Specialy if it is specified by the parents clearly that anything you do on the computer can and will be monitored

Hell it is done by employers just to make sure man hours are not lost ... somehow my kids are more important to me then a few man hours.

Bad luck for the kids if the parents are IT Administrators. :p
:) Though we might raise a bunch of hoolagins lol, I know where I was at at age 16 without a comp geek mentor (almost in prision) lol

Im not sure what would have happened with that extra boost of knoledge, I might have gotten in even more over my head lol

Okay imagine;

Your daughter finds the recordings of everything she has done on the internet for the past few years. All the gossiping conversations she has had with friends about boys, all their girl talks. That boy band website she used to go to, her MySpace or Deviant Art site that she expressed her deep emotions to others. Forum sites she has went to and all the information she has learned or shared. She finds out that maybe mom was so quiet around her that week because over AIM she called her a bitch, in privacy.

All of that, years and years of those records and invasion of privacy.
Any parent who subjects their children to that kind of stalking is a horrible person.

:) Though we might raise a bunch of hoolagins lol, I know where I was at at age 16 without a comp geek mentor (almost in prision) lol

Im not sure what would have happened with that extra boost of knoledge, I might have gotten in even more over my head lol

A bit of hooligan myself ... :eek: :)

I voted the bottom two, I'm neutral. My parents know i'm sensible and don't bother with it. I monitor what they go on instead:p

Okay imagine;

Your daughter finds the recordings of everything she has done on the internet for the past few years. All the gossiping conversations she has had with friends about boys, all their girl talks. That boy band website she used to go to, her MySpace or Deviant Art site that she expressed her deep emotions to others. Forum sites she has went to and all the information she has learned or shared. She finds out that maybe mom was so quiet around her that week because over AIM she called her a bitch, in privacy.

All of that, years and years of those records and invasion of privacy.
Any parent who subjects their children to that kind of stalking is a horrible person.

Well her mother should have told her that her activities on the internet can and will be monitored(echo.....echo.....echo ;) ), for her own good.
If I ever have children I will monitor what they do on the internet, and let them know that I'm going to cos the internet isn't totally safe. As they get older and more mature and experienced I'll monitor them less and less. Eventually I'll 'give them the keys' to the monitoring software or whatever and let them get rid of it, as a gesture of trust.

Well her mother should have told her that her activities on the internet can and will be monitored(echo.....echo.....echo ;) ), for her own good.
If I ever have children I will monitor what they do on the internet, and let them know that I'm going to cos the internet isn't totally safe. As they get older and more mature and experienced I'll monitor them less and less. Eventually I'll 'give them the keys' to the monitoring software or whatever and let them get rid of it, as a gesture of trust.

But you get the "control freak" parents, who won't. :p

Bad luck for the kids if the parents are IT Administrators. :p

Tell me about it :(

Still, although he had everything set up against me, I have still found that it is easier to be the hacking son than be the protecting father. There is always a way around. It takes some computer know-how, but there is ALWAYS a way to get around it. And a semi computer literate parent doesn't have a chance. All you're doing is advertising the fact that you don't trust your child.

Anyway, now I have my own computer with no restrictions where I'm the admin etc, so I guess he trusts me. Which for any child is the most important thing to build. No fooling, any teens here who want to be free to do mostly whatever they want, and certainly have all the privacy they want, just act like an adult to them. They will respond in kind. I have never taken that 'Respect your elders' 'I'm right and you're wrong' bullshit. No matter what age you are, as long as you act like an adult with your parents then they will be happy to give you your freedoms.

Also, just a little comment to the parents who wish to monitor everything your child does. Do you lock all the doors and trap your child indoors when you're at home? I doubt it. You trust them not to open that door and go out into the outside world. Trust them the same way with the internet. Tell them where they should and shouldn't go, and give them the freedom to CHOOSE to go along with your wishes. It is the only way to make sure they are doing it because they accept it is the right thing to do, rather than because you will shout at them if they don't. OK?

Tell me about it :(

<snip with chainsaw and lightsaber>

OK?

That's the general approach I'd take. I'd put restrictions if rules get broken and if they break the PC, they fix it.

Monitering your children is fine if you tell them.
I'm talking about if you actually do it without telling them, that is my beef.

Tell me about it :(

Still, although he had everything set up against me, I have still found that it is easier to be the hacking son than be the protecting father. There is always a way around. It takes some computer know-how, but there is ALWAYS a way to get around it. And a semi computer literate parent doesn't have a chance. All you're doing is advertising the fact that you don't trust your child.

Anyway, now I have my own computer with no restrictions where I'm the admin etc, so I guess he trusts me. Which for any child is the most important thing to build. No fooling, any teens here who want to be free to do mostly whatever they want, and certainly have all the privacy they want, just act like an adult to them. They will respond in kind. I have never taken that 'Respect your elders' 'I'm right and you're wrong' bullshit. No matter what age you are, as long as you act like an adult with your parents then they will be happy to give you your freedoms.

Also, just a little comment to the parents who wish to monitor everything your child does. Do you lock all the doors and trap your child indoors when you're at home? I doubt it. You trust them not to open that door and go out into the outside world. Trust them the same way with the internet. Tell them where they should and shouldn't go, and give them the freedom to CHOOSE to go along with your wishes. It is the only way to make sure they are doing it because they accept it is the right thing to do, rather than because you will shout at them if they don't. OK?

Depending on how young the child is you do lock the doors and windows. My parents had to get locks on the windows after I jumped out one(on the ground floor). If you don't let your kids go outside on their own, why let them go on the internet?

Being 18 (soon to be 19) puts me in a position where I can still remember the hoops I jumped through to escape parental control a few years earlier, and also understand and picture myself trying to impose the same controls on my kids, if I ever should have any.

My conclusion: Controls cannot be completely effective. It seems that parents beyond a certain age fail to appreciate their kids' inventiveness and technical skill. When I was 15, I knew next to nothing about programming or technology (I hadn't even learned HTML), and yet I remember there were few things online that I wanted to do and my parents could effectively keep me from doing.

No, I guess this would have stopped at porn sites or downloading dialer viruses - I didn't want to do that anyway. But I still remember how I planned for an entire week to get back internet access which had been cut because I had forgotten a piece of homework - it involved installing a keylogger, gaining admin access on my parents' machine and disabling the Jana proxy server that was set up on it.

With that in mind, I would feel uneasy about trying to keep my future progeny from doing something that they set their mind to. It would be far more effective to explain the risks to them.

As for those who claim the children cannot understand this: If they are too young to understand a risk that is explained to them, they have no business being anywhere NEAR electronic devices, let alone computers with internet access.

Being 18 (soon to be 19) puts me in a position where I can still remember the hoops I jumped through to escape parental control a few years earlier, and also understand and picture myself trying to impose the same controls on my kids, if I ever should have any.

My conclusion: Controls cannot be completely effective. It seems that parents beyond a certain age fail to appreciate their kids' inventiveness and technical skill. When I was 15, I knew next to nothing about programming or technology (I hadn't even learned HTML), and yet I remember there were few things online that I wanted to do and my parents could effectively keep me from doing.

No, I guess this would have stopped at porn sites or downloading dialer viruses - I didn't want to do that anyway. But I still remember how I planned for an entire week to get back internet access which had been cut because I had forgotten a piece of homework - it involved installing a keylogger, gaining admin access on my parents' machine and disabling the Jana proxy server that was set up on it.

With that in mind, I would feel uneasy about trying to keep my future progeny from doing something that they set their mind to. It would be far more effective to explain the risks to them.

As for those who claim the children cannot understand this: If they are too young to understand a risk that is explained to them, they have no business being anywhere NEAR electronic devices, let alone computers with internet access.

I'm in the same position. Well not exactly, my big accomplishment was realising I could delete my internet history. Even then I spent ages trying to perfectly size my IE windows so the innocent one I pretened to look at would totally hide the pr0n, and so there was enough overlap so I could swtich quickly. I even made sure to have enough windows open so all the IE windows got grouped together on the desktop taskbar. I considered myself a mastermind.

Back in the Dark Ages when Firefox didn't exist, I used Opera. I stayed the hell away from IE, mostly because my parents told me how it was awfully insecure. :P

Anyway, tabbed browsing makes hiding the questionable stuff far easier. Just open 10-15 tabs in the window where you're surfing, so the title is not shown on the tab anymore. Then, whenever you need to switch quickly, you can just click another tab. Very convenient.

You do need to watch WHICH tab to activate, of course. Just in case there are several questionable ones.

*snip the BS*
Seriusly, were parents always this lazy and apathetic toward how their kids growing up?

I'll let the parents on the forum have this one.

*sits back, munches popcorn*

since you asked....

parents today are a thousand times more careful of their kids than they were in past generations.

sure many moms stayed home but they didnt spend all day watching the kids. they had work to do cleaning, cooking and otherwise managing the home. they weren't babysitters to their own children.

in the summertime i was out the door before 10 am and not home again until dark (or until i was hungry). no one checked up on me. this is before i was 10 years old. and no, i wasnt from a neglectful family.

Back in the Dark Ages when Firefox didn't exist, I used Opera. I stayed the hell away from IE, mostly because my parents told me how it was awfully insecure. :P

Anyway, tabbed browsing makes hiding the questionable stuff far easier. Just open 10-15 tabs in the window where you're surfing, so the title is not shown on the tab anymore. Then, whenever you need to switch quickly, you can just click another tab. Very convenient.

You do need to watch WHICH tab to activate, of course. Just in case there are several questionable ones.

Despite the fact my family all use firefox I don't think any of them know how to open new tabs, or know that there's the possibility of doing so. The only reason they use firefox is when I installed it an icon got put on their desktops too, and I told them to use it.

I'm in the same position. Well not exactly, my big accomplishment was realising I could delete my internet history. Even then I spent ages trying to perfectly size my IE windows so the innocent one I pretened to look at would totally hide the pr0n, and so there was enough overlap so I could swtich quickly. I even made sure to have enough windows open so all the IE windows got grouped together on the desktop taskbar. I considered myself a mastermind.
Wow I feel like a geek I actualy went in and edited choice applications so that they would not show up on the task bar in school lol

Monitering your children is fine if you tell them.
I'm talking about if you actually do it without telling them, that is my beef.
well yeah

snoopy parents are creepy. even a kid should have some privacy.

privacy online should be carefully considered, however. if you can see what pages a you child is going to (because its right there in the living room for anyone to see) and all they are doing is going to places like NSgeneral, i think its OK to not go behind their backs to look up all their posts (who wants to find out that their 16 year old is an anarchist??)

but each person is different. the smart boy who never gave you a bit of trouble might be online creating some kind of plan to blow up his highschool. the sweet 16 year old girl might be running a personal porn site from her bedroom with payments going to her paypal account.

or more commonly, suzie might be making plans to meet her online boyfriend who lives the next city over. suzies bf might be the nice 16 year old boy he says he is, or he might be a 45 year old perv. suzy might not be wise enough to meet him in a nice public place where she can easily walk away if necessary.

being a parent is tough. you have to walk a fine line between keeping your child safe and letting them grow up. there are so many dangers in the world. can you really fault a parent whose kid seems hellbent on finding all the trouble he can for wanting to hold him back?

Wow I feel like a geek I actualy went in and edited choice applications so that they would not show up on the task bar in school lol

Lol. I'm bored so I'm gonna go and make a diagram of my mastermind-ness. Watch this space >.> <.<

since you asked....

parents today are a thousand times more careful of their kids than they were in past generations.

sure many moms stayed home but they didnt spend all day watching the kids. they had work to do cleaning, cooking and otherwise managing the home. they weren't babysitters to their own children.

in the summertime i was out the door before 10 am and not home again until dark (or until i was hungry). no one checked up on me. this is before i was 10 years old. and no, i wasnt from a neglectful family.
Exactly. So long as I was home before the streetlights lit, or came immediately when Mom blew her nickel-plated police whistle, I was free to raom our neighborhood. Not neglect, not abuse -- I was armed with (dare I say it to this freedom-wanking generation) RULES.

If I believed that snooping on one's kids would reduce the likelihood of something bad happening to them, I would support it. However, my experience does not support that belief.

In my experience, kids with extremely snoop-happy parents are no less likely to get into trouble while they are living with their parents. Once these kids leave home, I have found that they are dramatically MORE likely to get into dangerous situations. I know that I personally went out of my way to do some dangerous things in college, specifically because my parents were no longer able to monitor my behavior. I did several things I wasn't really that interested in, for no reason other than the thrill of knowing that now I could do these things without my parents knowing about it or preventing it. I was not alone by any stretch of the imagination.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=179620520&p=y796zyzz6
so a few nights ago an Amber alert goes out on my TV, a little girl was missing and believed to be with a grown man she had met on the internet, flash forward a few days and they found her body, in a near by apartment, dismembered, partially decapitated, and apparently the guy had been planning on eating her (among other really gross things before hand)

It's scary to me that there are sickos in the world like that. Anyway, I was talking to a parent at church today about how to best moniter their child's internet comings and goings (no, I wasn't trying to be funny with that sicko) anyway, the kid walks up in the middle of the conversation and is mad at me "you are basically telling them to spy on me!"

well, I moniter my kid online (even though she isn't able to chat or IM or anything because I have blocked it)

am I snooping?

I don't think so, I figure it's my computer, my internet connection, and my house, she doesn't deserve any privacy and even if she did, it's more important for me to keep her safe.

What do you think?

If I had children, I would inform them of the dangers, reinforce the message and show them cases of internet abduction. However, I would not descend to monitering their activities on the internet after the age of 14 (I don't know how old your kids are), nor blocking chat and IM facilities on the computer.

Lol. I'm bored so I'm gonna go and make a diagram of my mastermind-ness. Watch this space >.> <.<
How to hide your pr0n windows! IE version! (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/NuGo1988/HowtohidepornforIE.jpg)
+1 ;)

Here's an even better question;
Why the hell are you even letting a five year old use the computer?
she needs it for school, most of my friends homeschool their kids.

Christ, it wasn't until I was around seven that we got a computer. And not until ten that we purchased a dial-up connection. Is there really any purpose to letting a child that young use a computer, most young kids I've seen on computers in the past just play Dora The Explorer or some kind of game like that for hours on end.
first a good parent doesn't leave their child on the computer for hours on end, second, my 2 year old is growing bored with Dora, seriously what kind of idiot 5 year olds do you know that are still entertained by it?

Yeah, no shit giving them access to such a wide-spread sea of information can lead to them going where they shouldn't. So maybe you should just restrict them from the internet instead of spying on them like a creep. Your child wouldn't even know it if she found a bad website, I doubt a 4-5 year old can comprehend terrorism and anarchism, porn is beyond them for years to come, most children that young don't even know what a penis is.
the kids I am giving the talk to are between 5 and 9, and that is the age of kids that need to be monitored and talked to about their internet activities.

Also, children should know what a penis is, how do they not know? I mean every kid I have ever known has asked about it when they were about 1 or 2, how do you not answer them?

Oh yes, I'd love to see what happens when your child discovers you've been spying on them for years of their life. If it were me, I'd get the fuck away from those twisted parents as fast as possible, that or ignore them for years of my life.
She knows I look (even though I don't have to now) it's the rule, we sit together and go through her history and talk about all the webpages. I don't ever advocate lying to your kids. I do advocate being an actual parent and talking to them, and guiding them.

Also, children should know what a penis is, how do they not know? I mean every kid I have ever known has asked about it when they were about 1 or 2, how do you not answer them?


Seriously! It is scary to me that there are people who equate "knowing what a penis is" with "watching porno on the internet."

Children should be taught "penis" and "vulva" and "testicles" and "vagina" at the same time that they are taught "elbow" and "nose" and "arm." They are all body parts, for crying out loud.

People who can't figure out how to teach their toddler the names for their body parts should probably not be allowed to parent at all. If you're going to have children, you should try to grow up first. :)

Seriously! It is scary to me that there are people who equate "knowing what a penis is" with "watching porno on the internet."

Children should be taught "penis" and "vulva" and "testicles" and "vagina" at the same time that they are taught "elbow" and "nose" and "arm." They are all body parts, for crying out loud.

People who can't figure out how to teach their toddler the names for their body parts should probably not be allowed to parent at all. If you're going to have children, you should try to grow up first. :)

In what kind of wierd porno are the words penis and vagina ever used anyway?

Seriously! It is scary to me that there are people who equate "knowing what a penis is" with "watching porno on the internet."

Children should be taught "penis" and "vulva" and "testicles" and "vagina" at the same time that they are taught "elbow" and "nose" and "arm." They are all body parts, for crying out loud.

People who can't figure out how to teach their toddler the names for their body parts should probably not be allowed to parent at all. If you're going to have children, you should try to grow up first. :)
yep, I know. I figure if they are old enough to ask the question they are old enough to know the answer. Besides those are just body parts, my kids know that, they aren't bad or dirty or secret, they are body parts. I remember when I was a kid and there were all these stupid names for things, it made me uncomfortable to talk about them (mostly because the names were stupid) I want my kids to be able to talk to me about anything, even their bodies.

yep, I know. I figure if they are old enough to ask the question they are old enough to know the answer. Besides those are just body parts, my kids know that, they aren't bad or dirty or secret, they are body parts. I remember when I was a kid and there were all these stupid names for things, it made me uncomfortable to talk about them (mostly because the names were stupid) I want my kids to be able to talk to me about anything, even their bodies.
When my mother was pregnant with my younger brother, I went to a class for "big brothers and sisters" that was being opperated at the local hospital. This class was to help kids understand the changes they were going to see in Mommy's body, and help them know what to expect with the new baby.

I was disgusted with the class.

They said there was a "baby in Mommy's tummy," when I knew damn well that it was in her uterus. If it was going to be in her tummy for 9 months then we were going to get one hell of a well-digested baby.

One kid asked how the baby got out of Mommy's tummy, and was told that "the baby comes out when it is ready." Then the "teacher" refused to answer any further questions, even though the kids were all curious as to HOW it was going to get out. I overheard a father telling his child that the baby comes out through Mommy's belly button, and to this day I wonder if that man might have actually believed this is how it works.

I was present at the birth of my younger brother. I saw the baby come out of Mommy's vagina. I saw that the baby was gooey and purple and had a yucky-looking wormy thing coming out of its tummy, which I could identify as the um-bill-ickle cord. I was not traumatized for life by this experience. I did not immediately go out and start having sex. I did not become obsessed with porn. I did not get pregnant as a teen (nor have I yet been pregnant). I have never contracted an STD.

Knowing about body parts and human reproduction does not create sluts. This should not be a revelation for anybody. And yet, here we are. :P

Wanting to keep your kids safe is great. Thinking that they will be safer if you keep them ignorant is just plain stupid.

she needs it for school, most of my friends homeschool their kids.


first a good parent doesn't leave their child on the computer for hours on end, second, my 2 year old is growing bored with Dora, seriously what kind of idiot 5 year olds do you know that are still entertained by it?


the kids I am giving the talk to are between 5 and 9, and that is the age of kids that need to be monitored and talked to about their internet activities.

Also, children should know what a penis is, how do they not know? I mean every kid I have ever known has asked about it when they were about 1 or 2, how do you not answer them?


She knows I look (even though I don't have to now) it's the rule, we sit together and go through her history and talk about all the webpages. I don't ever advocate lying to your kids. I do advocate being an actual parent and talking to them, and guiding them.

A question then. At what age would you stop monitering them?

As for the last point relating to you sitting with the child and discussing the web pages, are you training her to be a fucking social worker? If not, stop.

For god's sakes, stop getting so politically correct.
I'm not saying that a child doesn't know their body parts.
I'm saying a child has no understanding about sexual activites, if they saw porn on the internet they would have no idea what it was about besides naked people touching each other.

As for the last point relating to you sitting with the child and discussing the web pages, are you training her to be a fucking social worker? If not, stop.
:confused:
Why should she stop?

I have kids or if i had kids I would do it
I am a kid and my parent's should leave me alone, I need privacy

I voted A and D. I don't know what your definition of a kid is (my 15th birthday is on wednesday) but I do know that one of the most feared aspects of the internet by parents - pornography - is immoral and imo shouldn't exist in our culture. However, it does, so I take advantage of it occasionally. If I had my own children, I wouldn't restrict them from using IMs, if someone told me not to ever give my ID out i'd be insulted, I'm not stupid enough to get trapped by a paedophile. Then again, IMO, until your children leave home, you can restrict/monitor whatever you like.

If I had my own children, I would tell them never to look at pr0n before I let them use the internet, and if they did I would bollock them and restrict their internet.

:confused:
Why should she stop?

I find asking children to justify what they do with their leisure time to be wrong.

You don't see the complete irony in this?
You are just creating a long chain of "I looked at porn but my child can't"
Your child will start looking at porn then they will eventually have kids and say "I looked at porn but my child can't"

Oh yes, question time;

What is wrong with pornography

I find asking children to justify what they do with their leisure time to be wrong.
I got the impression it would be more like 'What's on that site?' as opposed to 'Why do you like what's on that site?'

For god's sakes, stop getting so politically correct.
I'm not saying that a child doesn't know their body parts.
I'm saying a child has no understanding about sexual activites, if they saw porn on the internet they would have no idea what it was about besides naked people touching each other.
Um, where do you live? If there are kids who are old enough to be on the net and yet don't know what sex acts are, then their parents are morons.

I got the impression it would be more like 'What's on that site?' as opposed to 'Why do you like what's on that site?'

I get the impression that it was the other. Seriously, how uncomfortable would you be explaining the websites you visit to your parents?

You don't see the complete irony in this?
You are just creating a long chain of "I looked at porn but my child can't"
Your child will start looking at porn then they will eventually have kids and say "I looked at porn but my child can't"

Oh yes, question time;

What is wrong with pornography

Where has anyone said that?


And porn is great! Boobs ftw!

Um, where do you live? If there are kids who are old enough to be on the net and yet don't know what sex acts are, then their parents are morons.

I highly fucking doubt a four year old child knows what sex is.
If they do, their parents are fucking left-wing pot brains.

I highly fucking doubt a four year old child knows what sex is.
If they do, their parents are fucking left-wing pot brains.

Inspired!!!!:)

Possibly the most amusing term I have heard all day.

But of course you aren't serious.

I get the impression that it was the other. Seriously, how uncomfortable would you be explaining the websites you visit to your parents?

Well I'm 18, Smunkee's daughter is (I think) 4, I'm not going to get questioned on what I look at on the internet. Though it would be damn wierd if I did. I mean, how the hell could I explain NS?!:p

You can pass anything off as educational.
Nationstates would be easy to explain to a parent.

You can pass anything off as educational.
Nationstates would be easy to explain to a parent.
It was a joke, and I'm never going to have to explain NS to my parents.

I said children in grade seven or above should be able to be roam the information highway without monitoring.
A four year old child should in no way be looking at pornography, I stated that if they did they wouldn't understand it. But then it was stated that the children's parents should help them understand it, thus why I said those parents were pot brains.

You really shouldnt monitor your childrens internet use, or go through their stuff (except to avoid inadvertantly washing money) or listen to their phonecalls. If you are worried about them talking to someone pretending to be achild, and then meting them, you should educate your kids and make sure they arent dumb enough to do that. If your worried about them looking at inappropriate material, teach them about sex so they can understand it. Or (and i wouldnt advise this) put software on the computer blocking porn sites. If you dont trust your kids then they wont respect you. If you go through their stuff they will get better at hiding it. They will do all the things you try to stop them doing, and keep secrets and tell lies. Teach them how to be safe, dont spy on them.

And what is wrong with porn anyway? well it does show sex from an idealised male perspective, so if your kids look at porn you should also force them to watch romantic comedies to get the female perspective.

You really shouldnt monitor your childrens internet use, or go through their stuff (except to avoid inadvertantly washing money) or listen to their phonecalls. If you are worried about them talking to someone pretending to be achild, and then meting them, you should educate your kids and make sure they arent dumb enough to do that. If your worried about them looking at inappropriate material, teach them about sex so they can understand it. Or (and i wouldnt advise this) put software on the computer blocking porn sites. If you dont trust your kids then they wont respect you. If you go through their stuff they will get better at hiding it. They will do all the things you try to stop them doing, and keep secrets and tell lies. Teach them how to be safe, dont spy on them.

And what is wrong with porn anyway? well it does show sex from an idealised male perspective, so if your kids look at porn you should also force them to watch romantic comedies to get the female perspective.

Or just force them to watch lesbian porn like healthy teenage boys do.

I said children in grade seven or above should be able to be roam the information highway without monitoring.
A four year old child should in no way be looking at pornography, I stated that if they did they wouldn't understand it. But then it was stated that the children's parents should help them understand it, thus why I said those parents were pot brains.

Ah, sorry bout that so.

Or just force them to watch lesbian porn like healthy teenage boys do.
I've always wondered how many of the women in lesbian porn(as in the type aimed at males, not at other lesbians) are actually gay.

I got my first computer at 15, along with unrestricted high speed internet. Before that I used my older sisters computer and internet with her supervision (I started using the internet at 14.)

My mom never monitored my internet usage, never asked who I talked to on the internet, what sites I went to, etc.

I simply just told her on my own who I talked to, what I did, and where I went with absolute honesty. She knows all the names of everyone I talk to on IM and every bit of info I know about them, she knows.

I even admitted to looking at pornography, and she didn't flip out. She was quite all right with it, she just gave me a "I don't like porn or think it's good for the mind" kind of thing and that was done with it.

She could possibly look at my history and such when I'm gone, because I am quite often, but now that I'm 18 she probably doesn't feel the need to check up on what I do. I haven't been kidnapped and killed yet, so I guess I'm doing all right?

You really shouldnt monitor your childrens internet use, or go through their stuff (except to avoid inadvertantly washing money) or listen to their phonecalls. If you are worried about them talking to someone pretending to be achild, and then meting them, you should educate your kids and make sure they arent dumb enough to do that. If your worried about them looking at inappropriate material, teach them about sex so they can understand it. Or (and i wouldnt advise this) put software on the computer blocking porn sites. If you dont trust your kids then they wont respect you. If you go through their stuff they will get better at hiding it. They will do all the things you try to stop them doing, and keep secrets and tell lies. Teach them how to be safe, dont spy on them.

And what is wrong with porn anyway? well it does show sex from an idealised male perspective, so if your kids look at porn you should also force them to watch romantic comedies to get the female perspective.

Cruel and Unusual punishment me'thinks.;)

I find asking children to justify what they do with their leisure time to be wrong.
I am not asking her to justify anything. I think you misunderstand the conversations we have about the webpages she visits.

When my mother was pregnant with my younger brother, I went to a class for "big brothers and sisters" that was being opperated at the local hospital. This class was to help kids understand the changes they were going to see in Mommy's body, and help them know what to expect with the new baby.

I was disgusted with the class.

They said there was a "baby in Mommy's tummy," when I knew damn well that it was in her uterus. If it was going to be in her tummy for 9 months then we were going to get one hell of a well-digested baby.

One kid asked how the baby got out of Mommy's tummy, and was told that "the baby comes out when it is ready." Then the "teacher" refused to answer any further questions, even though the kids were all curious as to HOW it was going to get out. I overheard a father telling his child that the baby comes out through Mommy's belly button, and to this day I wonder if that man might have actually believed this is how it works.

I was present at the birth of my younger brother. I saw the baby come out of Mommy's vagina. I saw that the baby was gooey and purple and had a yucky-looking wormy thing coming out of its tummy, which I could identify as the um-bill-ickle cord. I was not traumatized for life by this experience. I did not immediately go out and start having sex. I did not become obsessed with porn. I did not get pregnant as a teen (nor have I yet been pregnant). I have never contracted an STD.

Knowing about body parts and human reproduction does not create sluts. This should not be a revelation for anybody. And yet, here we are. :P

Wanting to keep your kids safe is great. Thinking that they will be safer if you keep them ignorant is just plain stupid.
yeah, I know, I was careful when pregnant with my 2nd to fully explain about having a womb for babies to grow in, I remember being little and my aunt said "I have a baby in my tummy" and I was scared that she had eaten a baby LOL

I am not asking her to justify anything. I think you misunderstand the conversations we have about the webpages she visits.

I probably have. My bad.

I highly fucking doubt a four year old child knows what sex is.
If they do, their parents are fucking left-wing pot brains.
interesting. My 4 year old knows what sex is, and I doubt anyone who knows me would describe me as a "left-wing" anything.

She asked, I answered.

yeah, I know, I was careful when pregnant with my 2nd to fully explain about having a womb for babies to grow in, I remember being little and my aunt said "I have a baby in my tummy" and I was scared that she had eaten a baby LOL

I remember when the mother of a little girl my mam used to babysit was having twins, the little girl said her mam had 'tins in her belly'. When she first said it I was way up there on the WTF-ometer, cos I didn't know her mam was pregnant.

I am a kid and i am told by my parents that i am not suposed to go on instant messaging cos they've heard storys ...:mad: :mad: :mad: :upyours: is all that i say...i cant get any privaleges...:headbang: o well it is their house an they're computer ect. ect.

And they are lookin out for me.

...

but i can't see why

...

i can look after myself

...

i can only talk to people i no...cant i?????

apparently not... "they might not be hu they seem" :headbang: B*ll*cks

I am a kid and i am told by my parents that i am not suposed to go on instant messaging cos they've heard storys ...:mad: :mad: :mad: :upyours: is all that i say...i cant get any privaleges...:headbang: o well it is their house an they're computer ect. ect.

And they are lookin out for me.

...

but i can't see why

...

i can look after myself

...

i can only talk to people i no...cant i?????

apparently not... "they might not be hu they seem" :headbang: B*ll*cks

is it your computer? do you pay for the internet access?

even if it was and you did, it's not your house.

honor your mother and father, they make rules for a reason, if you think it's a crappy reason then maybe get a little more of a loving attitude and go talk to them in a normal tone and with intelligent points. If that doesn't work then either live with it, or get a job and move out.

I said children in grade seven or above should be able to be roam the information highway without monitoring.
A four year old child should in no way be looking at pornography, I stated that if they did they wouldn't understand it. But then it was stated that the children's parents should help them understand it, thus why I said those parents were pot brains.
Let me guess you are in or around grade 7

I am a kid and i am told by my parents that i am not suposed to go on instant messaging cos they've heard storys ...<snip> is all that i say...i cant get any privaleges...<snip> o well it is their house an they're computer ect. ect.

And they are lookin out for me.

...

but i can't see why

...

i can look after myself

...

i can only talk to people i no...cant i?????

apparently not... "they might not be hu they seem" <snip> B*ll*cks

Please note the following acceptable smilies::) :fluffle: :confused: :eek: :cool: :p ;) :rolleyes: . Oh and :( . You can use :XheadbangX: too, maybe:XmadX: Don't use the others, you'll only look silly.
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Smilie Police

You might try a compromise, you can use IMs, but only with the people they've met. And let them see what you're saying.

Let me guess you are in or around grade 7

16.
And yes parents do have a child's best interests in mind.
Problem is, they have no idea how to go about it without acting like total jerks.

16.
And yes parents do have a child's best interests in mind.
Problem is, they have no idea how to go about it without acting like total jerks.

Presuming you mean 16 years old, how does that translate to grades, for those of us who aren't aquainted with the education system in wherever you're from.

16.
And yes parents do have a child's best interests in mind.
Problem is, they have no idea how to go about it without acting like total jerks.
Lol so shortly thereafter lol now I see why you put the "bar" where you did

Lol so precious. Every kid thinks the bar should be just a little bit lower then where they are at now .

I am sure if you were in grade 6 you would think that un restricted access should be in grade 5 or 6 lol

am I snooping?
Yes, you are. Whether or not it is justified is another question entirely. I should note, however, that the person in question knew this man in real life beforehand.

Yes, you are. Whether or not it is justified is another question entirely.
yeah, I have decided that it's not snooping as long as I am 100% honest about it with my kid, then it's just looking while she is there over my shoulder. LOL see? I can rationalize anything.



I should note, however, that the person in question knew this man in real life beforehand.
that's not what I am hearing from the familly.

It's also precious to see mothers trying such desperate acts as monitoring their children in the hope they can actually control a child's hormones and curiosity. Irony splashes upon the shores of stupidity, you will never and can never raise a 'perfect' child.

Your parents obviously tried to raise you perfectly but I doubt you never crossed a rule. Futile attempt.

It's also precious to see mothers trying such desperate acts as monitoring their children in the hope they can actually control a child's hormones and curiosity. Irony splashes upon the shores of stupidity, you will never and can never raise a 'perfect' child.

Your parents obviously tried to raise you perfectly but I doubt you never crossed a rule. Futile attempt.


do you seriously not understand the difference between trying to keep your kids from making harmful decisions, and trying to control everything in their lives?

I have found blogs of kids that I know, with suggestive pictures of themselves on them, you don't think that's something a parent might need to know about, might want to talk to their 11 year old daughter about?

It's also precious to see mothers trying such desperate acts as monitoring their children in the hope they can actually control a child's hormones and curiosity. Irony splashes upon the shores of stupidity, you will never and can never raise a 'perfect' child.

Your parents obviously tried to raise you perfectly but I doubt you never crossed a rule. Futile attempt.
So parents should give up just because it is not possible to raise a 'perfect' child?

I also don't find what is particularly ironic about the situation ... perhaps you are misusing the word?

Did you mean hypocritical (possibly)?

It's also precious to see mothers trying such desperate acts as monitoring their children in the hope they can actually control a child's hormones and curiosity. Irony splashes upon the shores of stupidity, you will never and can never raise a 'perfect' child.

Your parents obviously tried to raise you perfectly but I doubt you never crossed a rule. Futile attempt.

The child is 4. Were she 15, you would have a point. As it is, you don't.

It's also precious to see mothers trying such desperate acts as monitoring their children in the hope they can actually control a child's hormones and curiosity. Irony splashes upon the shores of stupidity, you will never and can never raise a 'perfect' child.

Your parents obviously tried to raise you perfectly but I doubt you never crossed a rule. Futile attempt.

To whom are you reffering?

So parents should give up just because it is not possible to raise a 'perfect' child?

I also don't find what is particularly ironic about the situation ... perhaps you are misusing the word?

Did you mean hypocritical (possibly)?

No, it's ironic because there is a constant stream of disobeying parents. You probably disobeyed your parents, your parents probably disobeyed their parents. By trying to be so protective you are actually just provoking the exact same situation to happen and furthering the stream of non-loyalty to a parent's wishes.

No, it's ironic because there is a constant stream of disobeying parents. You probably disobeyed your parents, your parents probably disobeyed their parents. By trying to be so protective you are actually just provoking the exact same situation to happen and furthering the stream of non-loyalty to a parent's wishes.
that's interesting.

I would like to hear your parenting theory, you know so I can laugh about it.

Trust your kids.

Trust your kids.
trust is earned. I trust my kids with things I know they can handle, I don't trust them to navigate the world all alone without any guidance.

I would no more trust a 7 year old to drive my car, than I do trust the same kid to navigate internet relationships all alone without any training to back it up.


trust your kids, isn't a parenting theory, it's something that kids say because they are pissed off that their parents are questioning them about their decisions.

No, it's ironic because there is a constant stream of disobeying parents. You probably disobeyed your parents, your parents probably disobeyed their parents. By trying to be so protective you are actually just provoking the exact same situation to happen and furthering the stream of non-loyalty to a parent's wishes.
Again, there's a difference between what Smunkee's doing and being overprotective. Her kid is 4. She's not ready to see a lot of stuff on the internet. I believe Smunkee spoke of letting her have more freedom as she gets older and is more able to handle it. Parents have every right to monitor their children's activities. The kids should be informed that it's happening, but it's every parent's prerogative to protect their children. Do YOU have kids, or have experience dealing with kids much younger than yourself full-time?

Trust your kids.
You do know that's what everyone has been saying for most of this thread. More or less.

I've said this what, two times now?
I understand limiting a four year old greatly, I never said give them freedom.
I'm talking about a young adult, preteen, whatever you want to call them.
Ages 1-9 are realistic moderation periods, children that young can't think for themselves and don't know their dick from their ass.

However, once children start becoming aware of 'the real world' and it's issues I think it is safe to say they are ready to venture into uncharted waters. Also, what right do you have telling another parent how to raise their child?

I've said this what, two times now?
I understand limiting a four year old greatly, I never said give them freedom.
I'm talking about a young adult, preteen, whatever you want to call them.
Ages 1-9 are realistic moderation periods, children that young can't think for themselves and don't know their dick from their ass.

However, once children start becoming aware of 'the real world' and it's issues I think it is safe to say they are ready to venture into uncharted waters. Also, what right do you have telling another parent how to raise their child?
Who's telling? o.o; Sorry, I don't recall telling anybody anything, just offering my opinions/suggestions.

As for ages 9+, freedom shouldn't come all at once. That's like pushing your kid into deep water when they don't know how to swim, the way I see it. It should come gradually, until about age 13-14 (when a kid enters high school, in North America) when they're able to browse at will. However, I do think parents should keep an eye on their browser's logs, and if they see something odd, casually mention it (not saying that you saw it in your browser's history) and make it like one of The Talks that kids usually get from their parents about the various facts of life. That would seem to be the logical way to go about it, anyway, to me.

I've said this what, two times now?
I understand limiting a four year old greatly, I never said give them freedom.
I'm talking about a young adult, preteen, whatever you want to call them.
Ages 1-9 are realistic moderation periods, children that young can't think for themselves and don't know their dick from their ass.

However, once children start becoming aware of 'the real world' and it's issues I think it is safe to say they are ready to venture into uncharted waters. Also, what right do you have telling another parent how to raise their child?
me? people ask me. Believe it or not, most people think I am a good parent. I wouldn't say anything to them, except they ask.

I can agree that up until 9 kids need to be monitored, also, if your kid has proven trustworthy they can be given more freedom a little bit at a time, but how will you know how trustworthy they are if you don't sit down with them and talk to them about their internet activity, going through and talking about it the whole time? I know some 16 year olds that absolutely should not be on the internet at all. It's a good thing to know something like that about your kid.

I know more about the teens at my church than most of their parents do, and that's pathetic.

Trust your kids.

Yes, insofar as they are mature enough to be trusted. This is an individual thing. I would not trust a five-year-old behind the wheel of a car, I would trust an 18-year-old. They have to be taught about actions and consequences, about who to trust and who not to trust. They have to be taught values and ethics. ANd until you are certain that they can take care of themselves, you, the parent, have to take care of them. You don't just turn a person loose on the world (or turn the world loose on a person) without giving them grounding - that would be (and has been) disastrous.

I know more about the teens at my church than most of their parents do, and that's pathetic.

And this is based around what?
Did you read their MySpace profiles or blogs?
Or perhaps, you are just being another 'know-it-all' Christian mother who thinks everything is solved by moralistic values and hiding your child from the world until they are out of the house.

Wether you believe it or not, talking to your child about certain things will actually confuse them even more. Why? Because you will offer your opinions and feelings on the subject and the child will most likely swear by those for the rest of their lives, even if it's a bunch of bullshit. Have you ever watched American History X? The boy is talking about reading an African American novel at school, the father cuts in and offers his opinion about the subject and the boy decides he is right. Then what happens - the boy turns into a neo nazi skinhead.

And this is based around what?
Did you read their MySpace profiles or blogs?

I know them, they talk to me, I know their friends, I know who is dating who, who is mad at who, all that stuff, I know which kids cut, which kids smoke pot, which kids, are atheists and go to church only so they can go out on Friday nights, I know which kids are in a band, their parents know nothing.
Or perhaps, you are just being another 'know-it-all' Christian mother who thinks everything is solved by moralistic values and hiding your child from the world until they are out of the house.
I don't hide my children from anything, I am honest, I talk to them about the world around them, and help them to figure out what they think about it.
Wether you believe it or not, talking to your child about certain things will actually confuse them even more. Why? Because you will offer your opinions and feelings on the subject and the child will most likely swear by those for the rest of their lives, even if it's a bunch of bullshit.
so don't talk to my kids?

Have you ever watched American History X? The boy is talking about reading an African American novel at school, the father cuts in and offers his opinion about the subject and the boy decides he is right. Then what happens - the boy turns into a neo nazi skinhead.
I have watched the movie, and what I learned from it is that you need to teach your children how to think, how to pick apart other people's opinions to pull all the BS out of it, and be left with what holds true.

After the beginning stages of decency
(Example: Rape = Bad)
And the child develops a moral social sense it is then the duty of the parent to let the child decide what is right and what is wrong.

You give the child the facts, not your opinions and beliefs.
Here is what communism is about, is it good or bad?
You don't say, here is what communism is about and it's for idiots, never follow their ways, boy.

I grew up aroud a very anti-religious father.
He often stated his aggressive opinions about the 'holy rollers'.
Basically molding me into an atheist, had I just known the facts I could have decided if I were to be religious or not however that is hardly an option any longer.

After the beginning stages of decency
(Example: Rape = Bad)
And the child develops a moral social sense it is then the duty of the parent to let the child decide what is right and what is wrong.

You give the child the facts, not your opinions and beliefs.
Here is what communism is about, is it good or bad?
You don't say, here is what communism is about and it's for idiots, never follow their ways, boy.

I grew up aroud a very anti-religious father.
He often stated his aggressive opinions about the 'holy rollers'.
Basically molding me into an atheist, had I just known the facts I could have decided if I were to be religious or not however that is hardly an option any longer.

Offering your opinion wouldn't necessarily be damaging as long as you make clear it's your opinion, and that they can form their own opinion on the subject, in fact they should, not just can.

Offering your opinion wouldn't necessarily be damaging as long as you make clear it's your opinion, and that they can form their own opinion on the subject, in fact they should, not just can.
that's what I thought, I tell them "this is what I think, and this is what other people think" and then talk to them about what they think. My kids and I already have lengthy discussions about politics and they are very different than I am, and that is okay.

Offering your opinion wouldn't necessarily be damaging as long as you make clear it's your opinion, and that they can form their own opinion on the subject, in fact they should, not just can.

You forget the fact that kids try their hardest to make their parents proud.
Which is why they tend to follow in their 'opinions'.

You forget the fact that kids try their hardest to make their parents proud.
Which is why they tend to follow in their 'opinions'.
Which is why you encourage them to form their own opinion and come to their own conclusions, while not forgetting to mention you don't care what their opinion is, provided it's properly informed and thought out.

You forget the fact that kids try their hardest to make their parents proud.
Which is why they tend to follow in their 'opinions'.
earlier you said that kids rebel and disobey and so you shouldn't make rules for them, now you say that they will do anything to make their parents proud, so which is it?

earlier you said that kids rebel and disobey and so you shouldn't make rules for them, now you say that they will do anything to make their parents proud, so which is it?

Exactly.
Rebellion is caused by the kids finally breaking free of the illusion their parents cast over them. They understand that the parents have been force-feeding them bullshit and lies for a greater part of their life and have stressful expectations of a child.

So the child gets the whole 'fuck you' attitude.
Supposedly, now I haven't witnesses this for sure, the rebellious teens later in their life come back and try to make their parents proud once again.

It's all about chronological order.

Exactly.
Rebellion is caused by the kids finally breaking free of the illusion their parents cast over them. They understand that the parents have been force-feeding them bullshit and lies for a greater part of their life and have stressful expectations of a child.

So the child gets the whole 'fuck you' attitude.
Supposedly, now I haven't witnesses this for sure, the rebellious teens later in their life come back and try to make their parents proud once again.

It's all about chronological order.

Rebellion is because teenagers want indepandance from their parents. Parents resist because they know their children aren't ready for that independance. Most teenagers realise this eventually.

And what's wrong with making your parents proud?

In the final analysis, we are children at one point and we all grow up. We don't grow up in a vacuum. It is much easier for the children (not the parents) if they grow up with limits, if they know where they stand and if they have parents who care enough to establish these limits. Children will rebel, it's not just an emotional reaction, it's chemical as well. And parents, having been children once, know this (believe it or not, we do remember what it was like to be young - that's why we want to help you avoid the mistakes we made).

I have seen children who grew up without limits. They are miserable as adults. People don't generally like to be around them. Reality hits them hard and below the belt. They don't have a notion of what it is like to care and be cared for.

Those who grew up with reasonable limits grew up to be, generally, much happier. They understand teamwork and responsibility. They also have the extremely satisfying knowledge that their parents loved them.

I, however, do not for one minute advocate raising unthinking robots. I do believe in making sure information is available to children as they demonstrate the ability to handle it.

In the final analysis, we are children at one point and we all grow up. We don't grow up in a vacuum. It is much easier for the children (not the parents) if they grow up with limits, if they know where they stand and if they have parents who care enough to establish these limits. Children will rebel, it's not just an emotional reaction, it's chemical as well. And parents, having been children once, know this (believe it or not, we do remember what it was like to be young - that's why we want to help you avoid the mistakes we made).

I have seen children who grew up without limits. They are miserable as adults. People don't generally like to be around them. Reality hits them hard and below the belt. They don't have a notion of what it is like to care and be cared for.

Those who grew up with reasonable limits grew up to be, generally, much happier. They understand teamwork and responsibility. They also have the extremely satisfying knowledge that their parents loved them.

I do not for one minute advocatie raising unthinking robots. I do believe in making sure information is available to children as they demonstrate the ability to handle it.

:D *applauds*

that's why we want to help you avoid the mistakes we made).

I've seen this alot amongst the adult posters here.
What mistakes did you make as a child that you are so sorefully trying to protect your children from?

I've seen this alot amongst the adult posters here.
What mistakes did you make as a child that you are so sorefully trying to protect your children from?
so many, too many to list. Most of them so bad that if I hadn't made those mistakes my life would be greatly different now. You can't recover from everything, some lessons are best learned from the sidelines.

me? people ask me. Believe it or not, most people think I am a good parent. I wouldn't say anything to them, except they ask.

I can agree that up until 9 kids need to be monitored, also, if your kid has proven trustworthy they can be given more freedom a little bit at a time, but how will you know how trustworthy they are if you don't sit down with them and talk to them about their internet activity, going through and talking about it the whole time? I know some 16 year olds that absolutely should not be on the internet at all. It's a good thing to know something like that about your kid.

I know more about the teens at my church than most of their parents do, and that's pathetic.


Whyever not? Is this because, to your moral judgement and perspective, they abuse it?

As for trust, how many children willingly trust their parents prior to gaining trust? Very few. A more prudent policy is simply to trust said child in certain affairs until such a point as they prove to be untrustworthy.

Smoking?
Drinking?
Friends?
School?
Socialness?

You need to be more specific of what you did that you think you can prevent from happening.

Smoking?
Drinking?
Friends?
School?
Socialness?

You need to be more specific of what you did that you think you can prevent from happening.
Kids don't know everything, kid. It's the fact that they think they do, and that we know from our own experience that they think they do, that adults have to step in. Let a kid run amok with their own 'immortality' and we'll be left with a hell of a lot of things to clean up.

Whyever not? Is this because, to your moral judgement and perspective, they abuse it?
because they are going to get themselves into the kind of trouble you can't easily get out of.

As for trust, how many children willingly trust their parents prior to gaining trust? Very few. A more prudent policy is simply to trust said child in certain affairs until such a point as they prove to be untrustworthy.
your children trust you because you have proven yourself trustworthy. I trust my child with things I know they can handle, I don't let my 2 year old take a bath out of my arms reach, because I don't trust her not to drown herself. I try to keep them safe, monitoring their online activity until they are mature enough to do so responisbly is part of the same idea.

An interesting thought, considering wiith the 'information era' children are getting significantly more intelligent than generations previous.

An interesting thought, considering wiith the 'information era' children are getting significantly more intelligent than generations previous.
An excellent way to prove my point.



Hurrah! 1,000th post at last. *Does a little dance*

because they are going to get themselves into the kind of trouble you can't easily get out of.


your children trust you because you have proven yourself trustworthy. I trust my child with things I know they can handle, I don't let my 2 year old take a bath out of my arms reach, because I don't trust her not to drown herself. I try to keep them safe, monitoring their online activity until they are mature enough to do so responisbly is part of the same idea.

That seems reasonable. I suppose the problem is differentiating between the two.

An interesting thought, considering wiith the 'information era' children are getting significantly more intelligent than generations previous.
true, but intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom are all three different things.

it's wisdom that children are lacking (well, and knowledge to some degree too)

That seems reasonable. I suppose the problem is differentiating between the two.
how so?

I proved your point.
You proved my point.
Lovely.

how so?

The child can think that its in the right, the parent the same. Who wins?

(I assume the diferent answers could be predictable here)

I've seen this alot amongst the adult posters here.
What mistakes did you make as a child that you are so sorefully trying to protect your children from?

We all make mistakes, it's part of being human. But if you learn from the mistakes your parents made, instead of repeating history, you'll be making history. And at risk of repeating a stale but nonetheless true cliche, "just wait until you have children of your own."

But, if you want examples, marrying too young; staying in a job I hated for too long; not doing work I loved because it didn't pay enough; choosing friends because I knew my parents would hate them, not because they were appropriate friends - the list could go on forever. Some mistakes I made have had lifelong consequences - they were avoidable.

The child can think that its in the right, the parent the same. Who wins?

(I assume the diferent answers could be predictable here)
the parent wins. You forget I am highly religious, children are to submit to their parents as I am to submit to my husband.

You can't teach wisdom.
It comes with experience, telling someone how to go abotu a situation is vastly different than what would actually transpire if the situation were to happen.

It's like teaching kids about stalkers, reference to the origin of this thread.
You can tell your child all about the dangers of them, how to avoid them.
I would almost guarantee they would throw away all that knowledge the moment "Your dad's friend from work" came to their house while they were alone so he could "Get a file from his computer".

the parent wins. You forget I am highly religious, children are to submit to their parents as I am to submit to my husband.
the parent wins

and im not religious at all.

the parent wins. You forget I am highly religious, children are to submit to their parents as I am to submit to my husband.

I am not highly religious, being agnostic, but, while I don't believe in the wife submitting to the husband, I do believe that children, until they are legally adults, must submit to the parents (except in cases of abuse). It's quite simple really: the parents know more and they are legally and morally responsible for the children until they are of age. If you are responsible for someone's behavior you have not only the right, but the obligation to limit that behavior. I.e., the parent wins.

Seriusly, were parents always this lazy and apathetic toward how their kids growing up?

Are you aware of the irony of complaining that parents are doing too much to protect their kids and then bitching that they are lazy and apathetic about their kids?

Here's an even better question;
Why the hell are you even letting a five year old use the computer?

Christ, it wasn't until I was around seven that we got a computer. And not until ten that we purchased a dial-up connection. Is there really any purpose to letting a child that young use a computer, most young kids I've seen on computers in the past just play Dora The Explorer or some kind of game like that for hours on end.

Yeah, no shit giving them access to such a wide-spread sea of information can lead to them going where they shouldn't. So maybe you should just restrict them from the internet instead of spying on them like a creep. Your child wouldn't even know it if she found a bad website, I doubt a 4-5 year old can comprehend terrorism and anarchism, porn is beyond them for years to come, most children that young don't even know what a penis is.

Oh yes, I'd love to see what happens when your child discovers you've been spying on them for years of their life. If it were me, I'd get the fuck away from those twisted parents as fast as possible, that or ignore them for years of my life.

Perhaps because Smunkee feels her four year old is able to use the computer with supervision and because your parents did not?

Why all the rage about her child having internet access and you not having it till you were ten?

Perhaps because Smunkee feels her four year old is able to use the computer with supervision and because your parents did not?

Why all the rage about her child having internet access and you not having it till you were ten?
When I was ten, very few people even knew what the internet was. :p

You can't teach wisdom.
It comes with experience, telling someone how to go abotu a situation is vastly different than what would actually transpire if the situation were to happen.

no duh, that's what I am saying, that's why adults try to keep you from making mistakes, they have the wisdom of their experiences and you don't.

It was actually more or less an issue of computers not being commonplace in households back in the early 90's compared to them relating to popularity throughout households such as a television nowadays.

no duh, that's what I am saying, that's why adults try to keep you from making mistakes, they have the wisdom of their experiences and you don't.

But does your child truly want to emulate you?

Smunkee why are you so thick.
You can't teach a child how to react to a situation.
You can give him some advice but ultimately it is them who will make a choice.
Wisdom from adults doesn't do shit.

But does your child truly want to emulate you?

That's not the point. I DON't necessarily want my children to emulate me, I want them to learn from me. They aren't the same thing.

Smunkee why are you so thick.
You can't teach a child how to react to a situation.
You can give him some advice but ultimately it is them who will make a choice.
Wisdom from adults doesn't do shit.
Then what do you suggest? Not talk with them and let them do whatever the hell they want when they want it?

But does your child truly want to emulate you?
why would they?

I want my children to be themselves, they know that.

Teaching them intelligence and knowledge is the only way they can gain wisdom in a situation. Recounting your 'old days' and telling them of all the mistakes you made and how to correct them won't do diddly squat.

I think parents should respect their kids' privacy, being 14 myself. Not that I do anything stupid on the internet, but I think there should be restrictions. Like after a certain age, they should be on their own, but before 11 they should be monitored. And before 11 they should be taught about internet safety, like not giving out oyur actual address and meeting people you met online. That's what's causing this Myspace trouble, there are kids left and right throwing caution into the winds and talking to perverts online and agreeing to meet God-knows-who at God-knows-where. Whatever happened to internet safety? It's not really Myspace itself that is the issue. It does give you the choice to post information, but it's the people who make those choices and get themselves killed. In no way should Myspace be blamed for internet-related crimes. It is the people who post way too much. End of story. :mad:

There is only one computer in this house that actually works (the other one has a virus and basically sucks so nobody uses it). I'm on it whenever I can get on, and normally I'm either on NationStates, RuneScape, and MuggleNet. Whenever I do use AIM or MSN messenger, I only talk to people I know (my parents, and people from school). There is nobody on either buddy list that I haven't met at school or around my (very small, hardly even on the map) town. The only two people that do not live in the state of N. Carolina (and yes, I am being safe, there's tons of net users in N. Carolina) are my two cousins who live in Indiana. That is it.

My parents don't spy on me anyways, using the computer. They trust me and my 12 year old sister (and we are both Myspace users). If there is a situation that arises when they worry too much (and 99% of the time it's my mom that worries too much) they use the old-fashioned third degree. :headbang:

Smunkee why are you so thick.
You can't teach a child how to react to a situation.
You can give him some advice but ultimately it is them who will make a choice.
Wisdom from adults doesn't do shit.

What are you, 14, 15? Adults only seem thick to adolescents. That's because your little adolescent brains aren't fully connected yet and the parts that are connected are awash in hormones. Your perceptions are physiologically skewed.

You can and do make decisions for children until they have acquired the tools to make those decisions themselves. Good parents do their damnedest to make sure that they teach the obtuse little monsters those tools.

Smunkee why are you so thick.
You can't teach a child how to react to a situation.
You can give him some advice but ultimately it is them who will make a choice.
Wisdom from adults doesn't do shit.
I can teach them how to react in a situation, whether they do it or not I have no control over. I teach my children how to think for themselves, I try to teach them the value of their existence and the gravity of their choices, in the end I don't hve absolute control over anything they do, I wouldn't want it either. I want them to be fully educated and make wise decisions, and by talking to them, and guiding them to think for themselves I feel that I am helping them accomplish that goal.

I can teach them how to react in a situation, whether they do it or not I have no control over.

Finally, progress is made.