NationStates Jolt Archive

So.. you don't like counselors, teachers, classmates, friends, or priests. And you're a self-declared "atheist." Sounds like you can't accept help from anyone but yourself. The problem is the only help you're offering yourself is cutting. In this case, think of yourself as a friend (because you've been very adamant that you have no others.). Would it still be ok if a friend was abusing you? Would you still want to be this person's friend, if you kept pleading with him for help and he kept convincing you that the only way was for him to abuse you?

In this case, you need to find a new friend. I know it sounds corny.. but from what you've told us, cutting is your only friend. It's your solution to everything... no, i wouldn't be good at sports. i'll just cut. no, a counselor wouldn't help. i'll just cut. no, meditation wouldn't help. i'll just cut. no, spirituality couldn't solve my problems... i'll just cut. It seems hard... but do you want to grow up and be an adult someday? Maybe even be happy? Cutting will only hold you back. You're wasting time. Find something, or someone, that makes you happy (self-injury does not cut it in the long run, i don't care what you think. no pun intended) - nothing could be more important.

World-hunger is really shitty, but there are thousands of kids dying - just in the US - every year, at their own hands, and you can't just give them food to cure their illness.

There is a reason why people can be institutionalized against their will - so they have no *choice* but to work with counselors.

I'm an avowed agnostic - I don't know and don't care whether God exists or not. I loathe sports. Meditation never worked for me. Long and short of it sounds like the OP and I are in similar circumstances. The only difference is that I actually did something about it. So, I propose the following suggestions to the Original Poster.

Make an effort to look acceptable according to society's standards, and get a job - you'll find that when you're at your job, you don't have the time to think of whatever is making you cut. When you have the money, move. Move away from whatever is restricting you so badly that you feel the need to cut. And then the influence is gone. You'll be much more healthy for it, and you won't be performing an action that would cause revulsion in about 75% of the people that hear about it.

Just some humble suggestions, considering that you refuse to do anything anyone else suggests.

Everyone has problems, get over it for f*ck sake.


Go to Ethiopa etc, and see what real problems are.

Everyone has problems, get over it for f*ck sake.


Go to Ethiopa etc, and see what real problems are.

Waaaait a minute... You aren't Legless Pirates, are you?

Waaaait a minute... You aren't Legless Pirates, are you?
nope. SETTLED pirate

nope. SETTLED pirate

Well, I was thinking... Because Legless Pirates has been gone for so long, and the name is eerily similar (and fitting for his current situation, or so I'm told).

I have come pretty close to self-harm, and have thought about it a lot. However I have never liked the idea of cutting myself, having a knife slicing into me is slightly phobic to be (childhood experience, but I won't go into that). The reason why I almost self-harmed was funnily enough to a certain extent for attention. I have the condition Attention Deficit Disorder, which along with the great gift of my creative mind leaves amoung other things a near-terminal sence of bordom. I have considered self-harm merely for the purpose of adding something to my life, to make this time special, different. I have even imagined doing something terminal, and then mentally looking back at how my world would change.

I, however, have been lucky enough to find another outlet. Whenever I feel down or choked by the structure of life, I do something creative. I am building up a collection of poetry for example. Plus any number of plays and stories that were merely started, before I moved on, at peace. Naliitr, I know you have an awful background, and probs feel very opressed in you normal life. But your escape doesn't need to be this. You can express your emotions on paper, and in words rather than in pain. You don't ever have to show someone them, it is just for you. It doesn't even have to be very good, as long as you get your feelings out. Would you try that for me? I do believe to could help you. :)

Everyone has problems, get over it for f*ck sake.


Go to Ethiopa etc, and see what real problems are.


Aw. Isn't that cute?

The old, 'I may have it better than you, but there are people who have it worse than you, so your problems mean nothing!' argument.

There are several problems with your inane comment.

For one, you cannot compare a North American or European to an Ethiopian. Even homeless people in the first two categories are generally better off than the middle-class in a third-world country. You need to compare people from similar socioeconomic situations or your argument fails.

Secondly, you cannot compare physical circumstances and mental disorders unless there's a direct link. Cutting is not a starvation of the mind, and people in Ethiopia aren't starving because they're mentally imbalanced. Another place where your argument fails.

Thirdly, simply because 'everyone has problems' doesn't give you the right to discount someone else's simply because you admit that you have problems of your own. Again, not a very well-thought-out argument.

Well, I was thinking... Because Legless Pirates has been gone for so long, and the name is eerily similar (and fitting for his current situation, or so I'm told).
Nope, sorry, my name comes froma doodle of a peg legged rum swilling pirate living in a semi detatched suburban house i drew,lol

I, however, have been lucky enough to find another outlet. Whenever I feel down or choked by the structure of life, I do something creative. I am building up a collection of poetry for example. Plus any number of plays and stories that were merely started, before I moved on, at peace. Naliitr, I know you have an awful background, and probs feel very opressed in you normal life. But your escape doesn't need to be this. You can express your emotions on paper, and in words rather than in pain.

Never encourage people to write shitty poetry. We have enough Waaaaaaah!ngst happening in the music scene. Lord knows we don't need another band whining about how their parents wouldn't give them a big-screen TV for Christmas.

A better suggestion would be to express yourself in whatever way you you're best at and feel is appropriate -other- than cutting. Play the accordion. Sing. If it turns out to be writing, so be it, but writing should never be a person's first go-to unless they *know* they're good at it.

It seems that the OP is being too pessimistic - maybe even intentionaly. He hasn't so much as considered any suggestions in a 7 page thread:

See a conselor: He'll tell everyone - fact
See a priest: He'll try to exorcise me - fact
A priest won't, go and see one: My mum won't drive me there
Take public transport: I'll get kidnapped and molested - fact (like all the other minors who go on public transport :rolleyes: )

You are making a concious effort to eleminate any possiblity of help rather than try it - that may be because you don't want anything to disrupt the perception of helplessness you have, which may seem bad but comforts you to think that you know what's going on.

Anyway:

I think you know how illogical it is to believe that everything possible is bad, You could probably think of a load of good things if you try.
If you genuinly are depressed, nothing's going to fix it instantly, but trying to help yourself is undeniably better than not.

I'll stop now, I'm starting to sounding like a complete nutcase...

Mmmmmm... Albert Fish...

Aw. Isn't that cute?

The old, 'I may have it better than you, but there are people who have it worse than you, so your problems mean nothing!' argument.

There are several problems with your inane comment.

For one, you cannot compare a North American or European to an Ethiopian. Even homeless people in the first two categories are generally better off than the middle-class in a third-world country. You need to compare people from similar socioeconomic situations or your argument fails.

Secondly, you cannot compare physical circumstances and mental disorders unless there's a direct link. Cutting is not a starvation of the mind, and people in Ethiopia aren't starving because they're mentally imbalanced. Another place where your argument fails.

Thirdly, simply because 'everyone has problems' doesn't give you the right to discount someone else's simply because you admit that you have problems of your own. Again, not a very well-thought-out argument.
Excuse me , but i do have authority on the subject. Having previously got help for attempted suicide. I look back and iam ashamed, i did it lookin for pity and attention that i thought i deserved for going through hard times. Which is what i suspect alot of "self harmers" want too.

and saying "your so messed up" or " you need help" is like fuel, they thrive on it.

So think, maybe other people know what they are talking about before you go passing them off as "cute"

Excuse me , but i do have authority on the subject. Having previously got help for attempted suicide. I look back and iam ashamed, i did it lookin for pity and attention that i thought i deserved for going through hard times. Which is what i suspect alot of "self harmers" want too.

and saying "your so messed up" or " you need help" is like fuel, they thrive on it.

So think, maybe other people know what they are talking about before you go passing them off as "cute"

I don't understand why you seem to think that you're the only person who has ever tried to kill themselves. For your information, I have also attempted it. And that is all I will say about it.

If you are ashamed, then your counselor did something wrong. You are supposed to feel that it's just something else that happened, and move on. Although considering that you did it for pity and attention, you obviously weren't serious about it. If you felt you deserved attention because you were going through hard times, please, keep your trap shut and leave the floor to those who actually have mental disorders.

Attention whore.

Never encourage people to write shitty poetry. We have enough Waaaaaaah!ngst happening in the music scene. Lord knows we don't need another band whining about how their parents wouldn't give them a big-screen TV for Christmas.

A better suggestion would be to express yourself in whatever way you you're best at and feel is appropriate -other- than cutting. Play the accordion. Sing. If it turns out to be writing, so be it, but writing should never be a person's first go-to unless they *know* they're good at it.

I suppose your right. But the defining factor shouldn't be what you're good at, it should be what gives you the feeling of release. It doesn't matter if it's shit if no-one sees it.

I suppose your right. But the defining factor shouldn't be what you're good at, it should be what gives you the feeling of release. It doesn't matter if it's shit if no-one sees it.

If it's shit, how can you be proud of it? If you are proud of it, it's easier to be happy about it - because it's something you're good at. Good advice from my counselor.

You could be proud because instead of cutting your arm open you sat down to write. You can be especially proud if you did it to help yourself, and not so you could show it off later. Maybe not proud of the writing, but proud that for once instead of hurting yourself you expressed yourself.

You could be proud because instead of cutting your arm open you sat down to write. You can be especially proud if you did it to help yourself, and not so you could show it off later. Maybe not proud of the writing, but proud that for once instead of hurting yourself you expressed yourself.

This is true, but the words of my counselor still stand.

It's a lot easier to be proud of something that you enjoy and which you're good at. Something that you can look back on and find renewed strength in, instead of looking back on and thinking, 'wow, that's crap - what was I thinking?'

You could be proud because instead of cutting your arm open you sat down to write. You can be especially proud if you did it to help yourself, and not so you could show it off later. Maybe not proud of the writing, but proud that for once instead of hurting yourself you expressed yourself.
Brilliant post, my friend.

things that help me to release pain and anger: smashing stuff (usually my own stuff so it won't bother others), breaking pieces of wood, writing poems, drawing (not even proper pictures, just big masses of colour that let my emotions out)

http://www.statik.tk may also help those who self-harm

Peace

It's a lot easier to be proud of something that you enjoy and which you're good at. Something that you can look back on and find renewed strength in, instead of looking back on and thinking, 'wow, that's crap - what was I thinking?'

Agreed. But it's hard to stop one thing and do another in its place. At first all your writing is gonna be crap, since you're only doing it so you don't cut. You have to change from wanting to harm, to wanting to write - or else your writing will just be a cheap substitute.. and probably crap.

edit: i think the same is true for drugs and such. you have to turn writing into something you genuinely enjoy. as long as it's just a placeholder for what you really want, it'll be crap.

Agreed. But it's hard to stop one thing and do another in its place. At first all your writing is gonna be crap, since you're only doing it so you don't cut. You have to change from wanting to harm, to wanting to write - or else your writing will just be a cheap substitute.. and probably crap.

And it's easier to want to do something that you're proud of because you're good at it.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

And it's easier to want to do something that you're proud of because you're good at it.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Maybe you could try some kind of sport, or a Martial Art? Martial Arts are great for making you feel good and releasing pent-up emotions (if you join a good class).

Maybe you could try some kind of sport, or a Martial Art? Martial Arts are great for making you feel good and releasing pent-up emotions (if you join a good class).

Well, if that was a general 'You' and not specifically directed at me, then yes, that's a great idea.

Personally, I've been considering martial arts because I need to develop more self-discipline. University isn't working out like I thought it would.

And it's easier to want to do something that you're proud of because you're good at it.

Do you see where I'm coming from?
I don't know if this is your intention, though I highly doubt it is, but it's starting to seem that you're actually coming from the standpoint of defending the fact that he cuts himself, even though you're apparently coming from a background where you know it's probably not a healthy alternative.

Personally, though none of us can know the exact details about what your counselor said on the issue, it seems that your counselor's advice is very much different than what many other counselors or therapists have said in the past. Even mine went with the old "Find any possible outlet other than the unhealthy ones, and soon it'll feel much more natural" advice, though my problems were certainly a bit different than just self-abuse.

Additionally, Naltiir, I'd like to know why exactly it is (and I know I'm going back waaaaay far) that the "emos" only cut for attention, but it doesn't count as attention whoring if you're posting discussion on an internet board about how you cut yourself. Also interesting to me is that you continually seem to claim that people should "hush" about it if they don't know what you're going through or if they've never been through it themselves....if that's the case, then it doesn't seem you'd have gotten nearly the amount of input you had. I just think that in a situation such as this, narrowing the field to "Go ahead and join my discussion, but only if you're going to say something I don't absolutely disagree with" is perhaps not the best idea.

Simonist']I don't know if this is your intention, though I highly doubt it is, but it's starting to seem that you're actually coming from the standpoint of defending the fact that he cuts himself, even though you're apparently coming from a background where you know it's probably not a healthy alternative.

Personally, though none of us can know the exact details about what your counselor said on the issue, it seems that your counselor's advice is very much different than what many other counselors or therapists have said in the past. Even mine went with the old "Find any possible outlet other than the unhealthy ones, and soon it'll feel much more natural" advice, though my problems were certainly a bit different than just self-abuse.

Additionally, Naltiir, I'd like to know why exactly it is (and I know I'm going back waaaaay far) that the "emos" only cut for attention, but it doesn't count as attention whoring if you're posting discussion on an internet board about how you cut yourself. Also interesting to me is that you continually seem to claim that people should "hush" about it if they don't know what you're going through or if they've never been through it themselves....if that's the case, then it doesn't seem you'd have gotten nearly the amount of input you had. I just think that in a situation such as this, narrowing the field to "Go ahead and join my discussion, but only if you're going to say something I don't absolutely disagree with" is perhaps not the best idea.

I'm not defending cutting at all. I just don't think it's 'stupid', per se. It put me in a mental state close to what I assume people get from meditation. I know it's not healthy. I stopped because I lost the desire to do it because my desire stemmed from my deep dissatisfaction with my life and my feeling of helplessness.

That having been said, lets list a few things that are also unhealthy but are relatively socially acceptable. All of these behaviors, done in moderation, do not harm the person very much.

Drinking alcohol
Eating fatty foods
Smoking cigarettes

The same is true of cutting. For some people, it can be very relaxing and theraputic. The huge moral outrage comes from the fact that people are much more relaxed about things killing them slowly because they don't look to the future. People, on average, get much more upset about dropping atomic bombs and suicide than they do about global warming and the effects of eating McDonalds for forty years straight.

Edit: I'm morally neutral on the topic of cutting. There are pros (which most people will not admit) and cons. It's not my place to judge those who do, just offer information about my experiences with it.

With regards to my counselor, she was a very kind and giving woman. She helped me find my strengths, and encouraged me to take them as far as I could. Because of her encouragement, not only am I alive today, but I'm going to be published in at least one poetry magazine fairly soon. Her advice was perfect and exactly what I needed to hear to break out of *my* mental shell of helplessness. She adapted herself to my problems and got right inside my head - although I was so desperate to be happy that I was more than willing to allow it.

I don't remember a lot of what she said, as it was a few years ago, but every so often, something I hear reminds me of something I said or felt, and her response pops into my head. It's why I'm more mentally healthy than not, these days, despite not seeing another counselor after moving.

Well, if that was a general 'You' and not specifically directed at me, then yes, that's a great idea.

Personally, I've been considering martial arts because I need to develop more self-discipline. University isn't working out like I thought it would.

Well I did some Martial Arts and they're brilliant when you've learned enough to be allowed to do "sparring" or "free fighting" - quite like actual fighting, though there are safety rules and a lot of the times it's not full contact - judo throws, even in free fighting, ARE full contact though :)

Just make sure you get a good club:

do the people there seem to be enjoying themselves?

is there good discilpine? (even in a relaxed atmosphere, it's not good for there to be no discipline whatsoever - eg. for people to be able to walk on and off the mat

what governing body does the instructor belong to?

what are their qualifications?

what grade are they? in most martial arts, teachers should at least be black belts (or a belt lower but under the supervision of a black belt)

and any other questions that interest you :)

just don't believe all the stuff you're told about self-defence - even in good martial arts clubs, some techniques are there purely because they've been there historically, not because they have been shown to work

<snip>
.....Should I clarify that I wasn't intending it as an attack on you, and it seemed a little like you just got really scary for a moment.....?

I'm really kinda flip-floppy on the issue of cutting. I see it as something that's not a healthy outlet and that many people do regret later on in life, but at the same time I don't get down on my friends who are moderate drinkers or moderate LSD users or anything like that, so it's more an issue of where you draw the line. Personally, though, I say from experience that it was self-abuse, though not in the form of cutting, that lead me into a lot more of them problems that I did have, and that's why it's self-abuse in particular that I tend to be a bit more intense and serious about. I don't see it as an issue of judging an individual, unlike a lot of people who haven't been there (and some that have), I see it more as an opportunity on their part to make a million more harmful mistakes, and I wouldn't wish the path I chose on anybody, no matter how much I may hate them.

It's a way of getting rid of frustration, anger, to calm down. Not saying it's a good way, but it's a way

Simonist'].....Should I clarify that I wasn't intending it as an attack on you, and it seemed a little like you just got really scary for a moment.....?

I'm really kinda flip-floppy on the issue of cutting. I see it as something that's not a healthy outlet and that many people do regret later on in life, but at the same time I don't get down on my friends who are moderate drinkers or moderate LSD users or anything like that, so it's more an issue of where you draw the line. Personally, though, I say from experience that it was self-abuse, though not in the form of cutting, that lead me into a lot more of them problems that I did have, and that's why it's self-abuse in particular that I tend to be a bit more intense and serious about. I don't see it as an issue of judging an individual, unlike a lot of people who haven't been there (and some that have), I see it more as an opportunity on their part to make a million more harmful mistakes, and I wouldn't wish the path I chose on anybody, no matter how much I may hate them.

Scary? I apologize. And no, I never took it as an attack.

And yes, I see where you're coming from in the last paragraph.

What I generally do is let the cutters know that I've been where they were. I don't condemn, don't suggest, don't cajole - I just tell them that if they need to talk, I'm there - and that no matter what they say, I'm not gonna judge them.

I'm a veritable warehouse of secrets, now, and a few of my friends no longer cut simply because I've helped them find their substitute that makes them proud. People who cut generally have a cause. I like to help them find that cause, if they're not conciously aware of it, and help them through it.

That is just one of the things that makes me proud.

It's a way of getting rid of frustration, anger, to calm down. Not saying it's a good way, but it's a way

Exactly.