NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

America sucks. And saying we should be grateful won't win our mortal enemy any sympathy.

America sucks. And saying we should be grateful won't win our mortal enemy any sympathy.
Hey dude, if it wasn't for us you'd probably be posting in German right now.:p

Whats with all the bashign of America-bashers? Sure some of them talk shit about the entire country, and the ill-mannered, uneducated oafs that can't point out Germany on a map, but they are not representative of the majority who spend their time directly bashing the Bush administration so lay off of them. :p

Oh boy... here we go...

"Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone."

Oh, I see... So the Brits singledhandedly fought the Germans until you showed up... Then all the books, movies, games and documentaries must've been all lies, with what the constant references to the Soviets and the multitude of freedom fighters all around the European nations... But nono, GB and their diminutive child, the US of A, were the only who stood against the barbaric foes of the evil, evil Germans, and to a lesser extent, the quite angry, but not so impressive Italian forces. (Japan isn't counted in this, we're talking Europe, not the pacific...)

Oh boy... here we go...Yup
*Putz da Popcorn in da Microwave.. waits for fireworks*

Funny thing, Quaon, about people bashing America. If the average American were to bash another country and they tried to silence them, of course the first thing that the American would claim is that it's only an opinion and it's not hurting anybody. So what's the difference between others bashing America?

Also, you assume that only non-Americans bash America. As an American who hates and bashes most of America all the time, I resent that implication. Sure, a lot of the rest of the world has a skewed vision of us, and we don't all fall into the mold they try to place us in, but are you here to claim that your world view is going to be 100% accurate and we should all be held to that standard?

Generally, we are only bashing Bush.

I quite like Americans.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Wait, wait... you can't make that assumption! The non-existance of the US would go so far back and change so many things that it's unlikely either of the World Wars would have happened in any way similar to the way they did. Hitler would probably never have even existed.

Here's one example.

Why do people hate the USA?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't undrstand why people hate the America. We do so much good for the owrld. We stopped hitler we stopped communism, we spread democrasy and freedom. We have the freeest and strongest country in the world and we use it to help people. Plus we are a christian nation and we spread the word of the lord. Why do you hate us?http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=395202

Does anyone in this thread remember the "37 reasons why America is Great" thread? God I miss that, please bring it back :p

Anyway, we bash America because everyone hates Americans. Obviously.

¬_¬

Yup
*Putz da Popcorn in da Microwave.. waits for fireworks*

Will trade you some of my beer for some of that popcorn... I hope you got enough!

Here's one example.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=395202

Haha! :P Praise the Lord, for he and his holy land watch over us!

Hey dude, if it wasn't for us you'd probably be posting in German right now.:p
Ja. Das währe natürlich problematisch. Dafür schulde ich den drecks Ami's selbstredend natürlich ewige dankbarkeit.

[NS]Simonist is right. I am an American and I bash it all the time. And BTW, the President DOES represent America. That's his fricking job. I know he doesn't do his job, but that's automatic and he can't possibly screw that up. They don't call him "Head of State" for nothin'.

Ja. Das währe natürlich problematisch. Dafür schulde ich den drecks Ami's selbstredend natürlich ewige dankbarkeit.
My German really sucks. I think you're saying you owe us your eternal gratitude. At least that's what I'd assume you'd say.


No need to thank me. Just be a good American.

"Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone."

Oh, I see... So the Brits singledhandedly fought the Germans until you showed up... Then all the books, movies, games and documentaries must've been all lies, with what the constant references to the Soviets and the multitude of freedom fighters all around the European nations... But nono, GB and their diminutive child, the US of A, were the only who stood against the barbaric foes of the evil, evil Germans, and to a lesser extent, the quite angry, but not so impressive Italian forces. (Japan isn't counted in this, we're talking Europe, not the pacific...)Ok, here's my logic. England and Russia were basically the only state that had the military power to put up a fight against the Nazis. The English had great men, but sadly, they lacked the numbers to continue to fight the Nazis indefinatly. Russia, however, had a chance. However, if they had won without intervention from the other allied nations, they would have likely made Europe into a Soviet state. Thus, Europe as we know it would not exist.

Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone.
We were not alone, and who says that we wouldn't? Sure, it would have taken longer, but we could still do it. Don't forget that the war might not have happened had America not followed a policy of isolationism, and ignored Europe, making Hitler believe that the only other country, (except the Soviets) that would have been able to stand up to Hitler, and his ambitions in Europe.

My German really sucks. I think you're saying you owe us your eternal gratitude. At least that's what I'd assume you'd say.


No need to thank me. Just be a good American.
You should be able to spot sarcasm.

We were not alone, and who says that we wouldn't? Sure, it would have taken longer, but we could still do it. Don't forget that the war might not have happened had America not followed a policy of isolationism, and ignored Europe, making Hitler believe that the only other country, (except the Soviets) that would have been able to stand up to Hitler, and his ambitions in Europe.
Read my last post. It pretty much sums up my logic.

You should be able to spot sarcasm.
If my translation was correct I did spot the sarcasm. I was just being Drunk Commies and replying with a morbidly obtuse comment to get a chuckle. Come on now, do you really think I'd tell a German poster to be grateful that he's not posting in German?

America sucks. And saying we should be grateful won't win our mortal enemy any sympathy.
your mortal enemy, huh? what about the marshall plan that saved your sorry asses from communism, standing up to the soviet union, ridding your continent of nazism, the list goes on.

i'm not saying you should be kissing our feet, and i'm not saying you should agree with everything america does, but a little respect would be appreciated.

your mortal enemy, huh? what about the marshall plan that saved your sorry asses from communism, standing up to the soviet union, ridding your continent of nazism, the list goes on.
Yes. Mortal enemy. The worth of all the patents you stole from Germany, the V-2 only beeing the most famous one, exceeds the worth of the marshall plan. And we don't owe you shit. The US all did it out of self interest. And even today we have hostile occupation forces defiling our soil. Above and under the ground.

Ok, here's my logic. England and Russia were basically the only state that had the military power to put up a fight against the Nazis. The English had great men, but sadly, they lacked the numbers to continue to fight the Nazis indefinatly. Russia, however, had a chance. However, if they had won without intervention from the other allied nations, they would have likely made Europe into a Soviet state. Thus, Europe as we know it would not exist.

But you can't just pick a piece out of history and then expect it to go along as it actually did until a specific point. If the US hadn't existed, Europe as we know it wouldn't exist in the first place, let alone after the rise of the Nazis which may or may not have actually happened in the new timeline.

Yes. Mortal enemy. The worth of all the patents you stole from Germany, the V-2 only beeing the most famous one, exceeds the worth of the marshall plan. And we don't owe you shit. The US all did it out of self interest. And even today we have hostile occupation forces defiling our soil. Above and under the ground.
we invented our own stuff. sure, we took some ideas from you and probably other countries, but we modified it and made it our own. besides, if all you're pissed off about is us "stealing" your patents, then you're a patheitc person. The Marshall Plan was partially in self-interest, but more than that it was in generosity, especially when you consider that it was made by a country that embraced isolationism for most of its history up to that point.

If my translation was correct I did spot the sarcasm. I was just being Drunk Commies and replying with a morbidly obtuse comment to get a chuckle. Come on now, do you really think I'd tell a German poster to be grateful that he's not posting in German?


Is it me or have you been having to explain your sarcastic jokes a lot more in the last few days.

your mortal enemy, huh? what about the marshall plan that saved your sorry asses from communism, standing up to the soviet union, ridding your continent of nazism, the list goes on.

i'm not saying you should be kissing our feet, and i'm not saying you should agree with everything america does, but a little respect would be appreciated.

Why should I respect you because of what your grandfather did?

we invented our own stuff. sure, we took some ideas from you and probably other countries, but we modified it and made it our own. besides, if all you're pissed off about is us "stealing" your patents, then you're a patheitc person.
Stole is more like it. And nowadays we still have enemy occupation troops all over our continent.

The Marshall Plan was partially in self-interest, but more than that it was in generosity.
Keep telling that to yourself.

we invented our own stuff. sure, we took some ideas from you and probably other countries, but we modified it and made it our own. besides, if all you're pissed off about is us "stealing" your patents, then you're a patheitc person. The Marshall Plan was partially in self-interest, but more than that it was in generosity, especially when you consider that it was made by a country that embraced isolationism for most of its history up to that point.

Dude, the Marshall Plan was completely self-serving to guard against the apparent evils of Communism and the USSR. It has nothing to with generosity and everything to do with making sure that 'Them dang Commies' didn't take over any more countries that the US could ally with.

Why should I respect you because of what your grandfather did?
You don't have to agree with me, like me, or even respect me. However, America has definetely made a contribution to your country, and you should recognize that. So, saying something like "America is teh sucks" or "I hate All Americans!!" is more than slighty irritating, because we helped you out a great deal. Of course, you can still say those things and no one will try to stop you because you have freedom of speech, which you most likely wouldn't have if it wasn't for ...America.

Oh, and one more thing. My grandfather was in the soviet union. I was born in the soviet union, but now I live in America, and I consider myself an American.

Is it me or have you been having to explain your sarcastic jokes a lot more in the last few days.
I don't know. Maybe. In this case it might just have been lost in translation.

Stole is more like it. And nowadays we still have enemy occupation troops all over our continent.


Keep telling that to yourself.
Give me some concrete examples of what we "stole".

I already explained to you the whole Marshall Plan thing. And I conceded that it was partly in self-interest. If you refuse to believe me that it was really about gaining allies and helping out democracy, I don't think there's any point in trying to convince you otherwise, since it's highly unlikely that I will be able to convince you.

Dude, who cares? The US won, and took the spoils of war. At least we were much more friendly and accomodating leaders than the Soviets. Compare the state of West Germany to East Germany right after the Eastern bloc fell and you'll see how nice we were.

Dude, the Marshall Plan was completely self-serving to guard against the apparent evils of Communism and the USSR. It has nothing to with generosity and everything to do with making sure that 'Them dang Commies' didn't take over any more countries that the US could ally with.
Right, and can you blame America for wanting allies? What country doesn't want allies? And regardless of what the motivations were, the effects of the Marshall Plan were positive,.

The US should be thanking much of Europe because without them the US wouldn't even exist. So really I think they should pat themselves on the back for helping to create a country that became so powerful.

Especially the French.

I don't know. Maybe. In this case it might just have been lost in translation.


yeah, possible, but I just thought it was a kind of funny trend on its own.

The US should be thanking much of Europe because without them the US wouldn't even exist. So really I think they should pat themselves on the back for helping to create a country that became so powerful.

Especially the French.
OMG, you're right, in a twisted way!!

Actually, the hopeless conditions in Europe are what made Europeans come to America, and the Europeans built it up. Without the French, we probably wouldn't have won the war of independence, so yeah, you're basically right.

Then again, the French did it in self-interest.

OMG, you're right, in a twisted way!!

Actually, the hopeless conditions in Europe are what made Europeans come to America, and the Europeans built it up. Without the French, we probably wouldn't have won the war of independence, so yeah, you're basically right.

Then again, the French did it in self-interest.

Yep, therefore it was a negative action.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

You call him an idiot and yet you think he could take over the world. You, sir, are the idiot!

The US should be thanking much of Europe because without them the US wouldn't even exist. So really I think they should pat themselves on the back for helping to create a country that became so powerful.

Especially the French.

See, this is a past altering thing that makes sense! You can assume that the US wouldn't exist without Europe, given that Europeans did, in fact, start the colonies that eventually formed the US, and no matter how you shift things, lack of Europe will equal lack of US. Yar.

So we really should be thanking the Germanic tribes and Roman Empire that influenced the European countries interesting.

See, this is a past altering thing that makes sense! You can assume that the US wouldn't exist without Europe, given that Europeans did, in fact, start the colonies that eventually formed the US, and no matter how you shift things, lack of Europe will equal lack of US. Yar.

Discounting the whole other-countries-discovering-North America-who-are-not-part-of-Europe then yes.

Give me some concrete examples of what we "stole".

I already explained to you the whole Marshall Plan thing. And I conceded that it was partly in self-interest. If you refuse to believe me that it was really about gaining allies and helping out democracy, I don't think there's any point in trying to convince you otherwise, since it's highly unlikely that I will be able to convince you.
Rocketpropulsion comes to mind. Also patents from the before the war leading German chemical and electro industry. Some 346000 alltogether.

You don't have to agree with me, like me, or even respect me. However, America has definetely made a contribution to your country, and you should recognize that. So, saying something like "America is teh sucks" or "I hate All Americans!!" is more than slighty irritating, because we helped you out a great deal. Of course, you can still say those things and no one will try to stop you because you have freedom of speech, which you most likely wouldn't have if it wasn't for ...America.

Oh, and one more thing. My grandfather was in the soviet union. I was born in the soviet union, but now I live in America, and I consider myself an American.

Just because someone did something good in the past doesn't mean you have to like them in the now (or back then even...).

I mean, say someone saves your life and then 20 years later they come back and kill your family. Their having saved your life in the past isn't going to make you like them any more in the now.

So we really should be thanking the Germanic tribes and Roman Empire that influenced the European countries interesting.
Maybe we should be thanking an African band of hunter/gatherers who decided to hike North and populate Europe, setting the stage for Western Civilization.

So we really should be thanking the Germanic tribes and Roman Empire that influenced the European countries interesting.
Or the Africans. We all came from Africa.

Maybe we should be thanking an African band of hunter/gatherers who decided to hike North and populate Europe, setting the stage for Western Civilization.
damn, you beat me to it. (see post above)

The US should be thanking much of Europe because without them the US wouldn't even exist. So really I think they should pat themselves on the back for helping to create a country that became so powerful.

Especially the French.
Thats hardly something to be proud of.

Rocketpropulsion comes to mind. Also patents from the before the war leading German chemical and electro industry. Some 346000 alltogether.
some links would be nice.

how about, Americans invented the phone, car, airplane, telegraph, countless medicines...

Discounting the whole other-countries-discovering-North America-who-are-not-part-of-Europe then yes.

Wrong! Because even if North America was discovered by another nation the circumstances involved with them setting up a colony and governing it and such and such would be so different that anything that resulted from it would likely not resemble the US in any way.

Just because someone did something good in the past doesn't mean you have to like them in the now (or back then even...).

I mean, say someone saves your life and then 20 years later they come back and kill your family. Their having saved your life in the past isn't going to make you like them any more in the now.
that's like saying that although america helped europe with the marshall plan, we nuked them twenty years later, which simply isn't the case

Wrong! Because even if North America was discovered by another nation the circumstances involved with them setting up a colony and governing it and such and such would be so different that anything that resulted from it would likely not resemble the US in any way.

Right...that can be proven :rolleyes:

The circumstances would be different, but there really is NO telling exactly how it would play out. Whether a global superpower would emerge resembling or not resembling the US is nothing but speculation.

Thats hardly something to be proud of.
No one's proud of it.

What are you, german? Nazism is hardly something to be proud of, and it occurred a mere 61 years ago, wheras the french helped us out 210 years ago.

some links would be nice.

how about, Americans invented the phone, car, airplane, telegraph, countless medicines...
The phone and the car?

This is not a joke. Everyone is un-grateful to the USA. We invented all kinds of stuff like radio pennicilin jet planes and tv. You would all be living in caves if not for us.

that's like saying that although america helped europe with the marshall plan, we nuked them twenty years later, which simply isn't the case

My example was presenting the point to extremes. The actual situation doesn't have to mirror it exactly. I could have said 'Just because someone bought you an icecream a month ago, doesn't mean you have to like them when they punch you in the face.'

The phone and the car?

I thought of that very quote when he said it.

Right...that can be proven :rolleyes:

The circumstances would be different, but there really is NO telling exactly how it would play out. Whether a global superpower would emerge resembling or not resembling the US is nothing but speculation.

Who said anything about being able to prove it? I quite clearly said "would likely not resemble the US in any way. Through a bizarre series of events, the US could exist even in an alternate timeline. That would be highly unlikely. The vast majority of potential outcomes would not be the US, though, whether or not they resemble it or not.

some links would be nice.
I have them somewhere.

how about, Americans invented the phone, car, airplane, telegraph, countless medicines...
How about no?

Who said anything about being able to prove it? I quite clearly said "would likely not resemble the US in any way. Through a bizarre series of events, the US could exist even in an alternate timeline. That would be highly unlikely. The vast majority of potential outcomes would not be the US, though, whether or not they resemble it or not.

"You can assume that the US wouldn't exist without Europe, given that Europeans did, in fact, start the colonies that eventually formed the US, and no matter how you shift things, lack of Europe will equal lack of US."

You cannot assume that the US woudn't exist without Europe.

The US is one of, if not the first modern democracies. Sure, we had some checks and balances to prevent a mob mentality, but we were, and are still, a democracy. The US's victory in the war for independence is credited for sparking other revolutions, most notably, France's partially failed revolution. I say partially failed because they basicly went from king to nutjob to emperor in only a few decades.

I think the US was a major part of the allied victory in WWI. Think about it. For years, both sides used the same outdated and laughable tactics. They each sent large groups of soldiers against enemy machine guns, only to see them mowed down before they could fire a shot. The allies mortared and artilleried the German lines before they sent the tanks out. Since the Germans were well prepared and were smarter than the stubborn allied commanders, they went underground to hide from the bombs, only to come out and destroy the tanks.(how hard could it be? the tanks weren't bulletproof)

The AMerican presence late in the war not only provided more troops for a massive counterattack, it boosted morale because here comes some fresh blood after the war weakened everyone else. Plud, the US went through the same thing with the Civil War, so it learned from history.

The British may have held out against the Nazis, but the US helped. The US sent Britian war supplies. I mean, the US was basicly a big, protected factory for Britian. The US was about twice as effiecient as the Nazis in war production and five times as efficient as Japan. So what if the US benefited. Would you want Britian's largest foreign(not counting parts of the British empire) to be under attack? Would you want the enemy to bomb what are basicly your factories?

I think anti-Americanism is one part jealousy, one part political, and one part ignorance. Jealouy because the the US is the most powerful nation in the world. It is also the richest and third most populated. Political because while Europe is largely left wing, the US is pretty much right wing. Plus, in the elections, we were in the infamous "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. Incompetent party A or even more incompetent, and divided, party B. Ignorance because you won't believe how many adults in how many nations never heard of WWII or anything like that.

Hate the government. Hate the policies. Just don't hate the people unconnected to the two. It's like hating a WWII German soldier who was kept in the darkabout the Holocaust all because of an evil program he was unconnected to. After all, in Germany, there were the Germans and there were the Nazis. Don't confuse the two.

The US is one of, if not the first modern democracies. Sure, we had some checks and balances to prevent a mob mentality, but we were, and are still, a democracy.

It's actually rather similar to the Roman Republic, albeit more forcefully balanced.

"You can assume that the US wouldn't exist without Europe, given that Europeans did, in fact, start the colonies that eventually formed the US, and no matter how you shift things, lack of Europe will equal lack of US."

You cannot assume that the US woudn't exist without Europe.

Eh. It's unlikely enough that you pretty much can. I don't think it's actually possible for the US of today to exist without the existence of Europe.

Either way, it makes a lot more sense to say than 'if the US didn't exist, the Nazis would have conquered Europe' or whatever it was exactly...

We were not alone, and who says that we wouldn't? Sure, it would have taken longer, but we could still do it. Don't forget that the war might not have happened had America not followed a policy of isolationism, and ignored Europe, making Hitler believe that the only other country, (except the Soviets) that would have been able to stand up to Hitler, and his ambitions in Europe.

You forget the great depression. We were in no position to make any serious difference at the time.....

Yes. Mortal enemy. The worth of all the patents you stole from Germany, the V-2 only beeing the most famous one, exceeds the worth of the marshall plan. And we don't owe you shit. The US all did it out of self interest. And even today we have hostile occupation forces defiling our soil. Above and under the ground.

Plunders of war my boy.

You forgot the scientists we stole as well!

Plunders of war my boy.

You forgot the scientists we stole as well!

God bless the CIA and Operation Paperclip...

Stole is more like it. And nowadays we still have enemy occupation troops all over our continent.

Hmmm?

Blame your government. For that matter; blame yourself for not making the government tell them to GTFO.

Hmmm?

Blame your government. For that matter; blame yourself for not making the government tell them to GTFO.

Can they even be called occupation troops? Aaren't they just sort of there now? Surely the occupation ended in '89?

The phone and the car?

It's our new education system! :p

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance No...by the time he reached Western Europe Cheney would realize what a bad idea that is, shoot him and become president himself, hoping to be greeted as a "liberater".

But all in all, we're actually a pretty damn great country (to live in). I mean we're not a third world country...most of us have jobs and food and shelter and get at least high school educations. We have freedom of religion here and journalists who aren't afraid they'll vanish in the middle of the night if they say a bad thing about our president.

We're only 230 years old. Hopefully by the time we reach the age of most Western European countries, we'll be choosing better politicians and listening more to the UN.

The AMerican presence late in the war not only provided more troops for a massive counterattack, it boosted morale because here comes some fresh blood after the war weakened everyone else. Plud, the US went through the same thing with the Civil War, so it learned from history.


Actually, there are many that would argue our entry to the war was what led to the last great push by the Germans.

They might have settled the problem and it might have avoided the financial collapse of Germany which led to the rise of Hitler.


The British may have held out against the Nazis, but the US helped. The US sent Britian war supplies. I mean, the US was basicly a big, protected factory for Britian.


Our supply lines were not that big and never mind the fact if we were overtly sending supplies; it would have violated neutrality. Even though we did cheat....

The US was about twice as effiecient as the Nazis in war production and five times as efficient as Japan. So what if the US benefited. Would you want Britian's largest foreign(not counting parts of the British empire) to be under attack? Would you want the enemy to bomb what are basicly your factories?

You are leaving out the Soviet production capabilites. Rudel and 60 men he trained took out 6000 armored vehicles. And yet the tanks kept coming.

Never mind the fact that when they developed the T-34, Germany was screwed.


I think anti-Americanism is one part jealousy, one part political, and one part ignorance. Jealouy because the the US is the most powerful nation in the world. It is also the richest and third most populated. Political because while Europe is largely left wing, the US is pretty much right wing. Plus, in the elections, we were in the infamous "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation. Incompetent party A or even more incompetent, and divided, party B. Ignorance because you won't believe how many adults in how many nations never heard of WWII or anything like that.


Well some of those stats could be argued. Richest as in what? Per capita?

Also, don't be tossing the ignorant label. Many Americans get their WWII history from TV and the movies.....

No...by the time he reached Western Europe Cheney would realize what a bad idea that is, shoot him and become president himself, hoping to be greeted as a "liberater".

But all in all, we're actually a pretty damn great country (to live in). I mean we're not a third world country...most of us have jobs and food and shelter and get at least high school educations. We have freedom of religion here and journalists who aren't afraid they'll vanish in the middle of the night if they say a bad thing about our president.

We're only 230 years old. Hopefully by the time we reach the age of most Western European countries, we'll be choosing better politicians and listening more to the UN.
Can we skip the part about listening to the UN? Personally I think it's a bad idea to listen to a body that has nations like Sudan on it's human rights commitee.

Can they even be called occupation troops? Aaren't they just sort of there now? Surely the occupation ended in '89?

Yup. Now it's mainly about money. We really don't have many places to put these troops and the German Government doesn't mind the money we pay.

Yup. Now it's mainly about money. We really don't have many places to put these troops and the German Government doesn't mind the money we pay.

Are the US troops still having big drug and behaviour problems there, like they did back i the 70's and 80's?

And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist.


Correction. The United States did not save Europe

The United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, France, Greece, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway and Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Normandy), as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_resistance#Notable_Persons) as (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonhoffer) many (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessing_Church) civilians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Schindler), helped save Europe.

They're called the Allies for a reason; it was a group effort. Continuing to spread this idea that the United States was the sole savior of Europe isn't likely to subdue so-called "America bashing" anyway.

Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone.

Hitler's incompetence, dissent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abwehr#The_Abwehr_During_World_War_II), and a very angry neighbor to the east (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_army_soldiers_raising_the_soviet_flag_on_the_roof_of_the_reichstag_berlin_germany.jpg) would have, however.

"What's With The America Bashing?"

Simple answer: People just don't like you. Get over it!

A couple of points, first off, the Soviets would have been unable to turn the tide without American intervention, if Hitler wasn't forced to turn his attention to North Africa and England, he would have crushed the soviet's. Truth is that if you take the US, England, or the USSR out of the equation you don't have an allied victory.

Second off, this "you should be greatful" bullshit is really starting to get to me, yes, you should be greatful for the sacrafice of the many men who gave their lives to prevent Hitler from taking over the world... but it was not the administration of today who is responsible for that, it's not even the people of today responsible for that, quit taking credit for something you had nothing to do with.

Er, I know I said two, but here's another one, Bush is a direct representation of the people, he was elected democratically like it or not, he mislead the people yes, but it only displays the gullability of the people. Sure he didn't win by the majority in 2000, but this merely displays how outdated we've allowed our system to become. A democracy represents the people, this administration may not represent our opinions, but this is no ones fault but our own. They used scare tactics, we were afraid, old saying, life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you deal with it.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Most of us don't "bash" Americans without any cause. If you say something stupid, we will bash you. That is all. Most of you are seemingly a bit too right-wing and conservative for European tastes.

Also, we've heard so fucking much about World War two from you people (and you're totally wrong, the Germans were royally buggered by late 1943 and probably would have lost at about the same time that they did regardless of America or not, the USSR was going to win anyway, the western Europeans would have just taken a little more time to sort themselves out) that we don't care about what you did any more. Yes, you helped out a bit with 10 months to go. Cheers.

Also, you utterly skewed WW2 towards your favour. See films made about said topic. U-571(?) for example. In the film, the Americans steal the Enigma mahine. In reality, they weren't even in Europe yet by that point. This is grating.

Saving Private Ryan - quite a good film, granted. But what about the British and Canadians? They're hardly in it at all. You fought at one beach. We fought at four and did much, much better (although there was less cinematic death, I suppose).

I'd also really like to know why you hate communism so much. Is it not the best type of government, when you think about it? (Fine, it never really works, but that's by the by)

Also, the richest per capita nation in the world is Lichtenstein, so there. You are not the richest. Your unemployment is quite high. Your entire economy is propped up by the EU, essentially. Your debt is ridiculously high, and will get even higher as the war in Iraq drags on, just like it did in Vietnam.

And the reason why a lot of European people don't like Americans is because a lot of you are quite impolite. Remember - Politeness costs you nothing and gains you everything. Nobody cares if you have the third largest standing army in the world, that doesn't mean that you can push people around. Remember that and people might think of you better. :)

Anyway, I hope that this helped, sorry if I sound rude at all.

"What's With The America Bashing?"

Simple answer: People just don't like you. Get over it!
People love me. I just don't like people.

People love me. I just don't like people.

That's not what you told me last night! :(

That's not what you told me last night! :(
What is that supposed to mean? Are you some kind of commie pinko liberal dope smoking hippie or something?

Also, you utterly skewed WW2 towards your favour. See films made about said topic. U-571(?) for example. In the film, the Americans steal the Enigma mahine. In reality, they weren't even in Europe yet by that point. This is grating.

Saving Private Ryan - quite a good film, granted. But what about the British and Canadians? They're hardly in it at all. You fought at one beach. We fought at four and did much, much better (although there was less cinematic death, I suppose).


You do realize that they are movies and not documentaries right?

You do realize that they are movies and not documentaries right?

However, the way that they are portrayed "Based on a true story" leads people to believe that they are true. Especially if that person has no prior knowledge of that event.

Why the America Bashing? The reasons are still valid even to this day. Click and read. (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)

Most of us don't "bash" Americans without any cause. If you say something stupid, we will bash you. That is all. Most of you are seemingly a bit too right-wing and conservative for European tastes.

Also, we've heard so fucking much about World War two from you people (and you're totally wrong, the Germans were royally buggered by late 1943 and probably would have lost at about the same time that they did regardless of America or not, the USSR was going to win anyway, the western Europeans would have just taken a little more time to sort themselves out) that we don't care about what you did any more. Yes, you helped out a bit with 10 months to go. Cheers.

Also, you utterly skewed WW2 towards your favour. See films made about said topic. U-571(?) for example. In the film, the Americans steal the Enigma mahine. In reality, they weren't even in Europe yet by that point. This is grating.

Saving Private Ryan - quite a good film, granted. But what about the British and Canadians? They're hardly in it at all. You fought at one beach. We fought at four and did much, much better (although there was less cinematic death, I suppose).

I'd also really like to know why you hate communism so much. Is it not the best type of government, when you think about it? (Fine, it never really works, but that's by the by)

Also, the richest per capita nation in the world is Lichtenstein, so there. You are not the richest. Your unemployment is quite high. Your entire economy is propped up by the EU, essentially. Your debt is ridiculously high, and will get even higher as the war in Iraq drags on, just like it did in Vietnam.

And the reason why a lot of European people don't like Americans is because a lot of you are quite impolite. Remember - Politeness costs you nothing and gains you everything. Nobody cares if you have the third largest standing army in the world, that doesn't mean that you can push people around. Remember that and people might think of you better. :)

Anyway, I hope that this helped, sorry if I sound rude at all.You mis-stake the verbal minorities for the majority. Most of us actually aren't insane, although the religious right would have you think differently.

Also, we've heard so fucking much about World War two from you people (and you're totally wrong, the Germans were royally buggered by late 1943 and probably would have lost at about the same time that they did regardless of America or not, the USSR was going to win anyway, the western Europeans would have just taken a little more time to sort themselves out) that we don't care about what you did any more. Yes, you helped out a bit with 10 months to go. Cheers.And you Europeans have a way of downplaying American involvment, so it's all good. Face it, without the lend lease act England would have fallen to the Nazi's. Without the North African Front, the USSR would have never been able to drive the Nazi invasion back, not to mention, without the US, Japan would have done what it was meant to and attacked the Soviet Union, forcing them into a war on two fronts.

Saving Private Ryan - quite a good film, granted. But what about the British and Canadians? They're hardly in it at all. You fought at one beach. We fought at four and did much, much better (although there was less cinematic death, I suppose).Read a book, America took the two worst beaches. Naturally, we had more casualties.

I'd also really like to know why you hate communism so much. Is it not the best type of government, when you think about it? (Fine, it never really works, but that's by the by)Not sure about my fellow Americans, but I hate communism because there's no margin for error, it requires 100% support of the population, and therefor any real world applications remove freedom of speach. Not to mention, in order for communism to be true communism, all must be equal, therefor ambition is impossible because it makes you better than the others, forcing communism into a constantly declining society.

Also, the richest per capita nation in the world is Lichtenstein, so there. You are not the richest. Your unemployment is quite high. Your entire economy is propped up by the EU, essentially. Your debt is ridiculously high, and will get even higher as the war in Iraq drags on, just like it did in Vietnam.Smaller economies are more efficient.

And the reason why a lot of European people don't like Americans is because a lot of you are quite impolite. Remember - Politeness costs you nothing and gains you everything. Nobody cares if you have the third largest standing army in the world, that doesn't mean that you can push people around. Remember that and people might think of you better. For being so much more liberal than us, you sure seem to be closed minded towards other cultures.

For being so much more liberal than us, you sure seem to be closed minded towards other cultures.

Rudeness is a culture?

what is considered polite and not polite is based on culture, yes

And you Europeans have a way of downplaying American involvment, so it's all good. Face it, without the lend lease act England would have fallen to the Nazi's. Without the North African Front, the USSR would have never been able to drive the Nazi invasion back, not to mention, without the US, Japan would have done what it was meant to and attacked the Soviet Union, forcing them into a war on two fronts.

Read a book, America took the two worst beaches. Naturally, we had more casualties.

Not sure about my fellow Americans, but I hate communism because there's no margin for error, it requires 100% support of the population, and therefor any real world applications remove freedom of speach. Not to mention, in order for communism to be true communism, all must be equal, therefor ambition is impossible because it makes you better than the others, forcing communism into a constantly declining society.

Smaller economies are more efficient.

For being so much more liberal than us, you sure seem to be closed minded towards other cultures.

We were already in Africa, actually. Yes, you helped. But not that much. Lend-lease was handy for both countries, we got some things, you got more money than you can shake a golden stick at. Your economy was buggered until another world war cropped up, remember that. Also, the Chinese would have doubtless helped the USSR were the Japanese to invade.

I've read many books upon the subject, a lot of the deaths at the U.S. beaches were caused by your sinking tanks and the rush to get to Berlin before the USSR. The haste involved didn't help your actions at all.

Granted, communism does require 100% support, but so does democracy, if you think about it. Your free speech is removed by the Patriot Act. And would you really rather that the poor starved than that you could one-up your fellow countrymen?

The smaller economies argument is a poor one. You're still in massive debt and propped up by the EU.

And what do you mean by your last point? I was just trying to point out that politeness is just a good thing. Sorry...

Why the America Bashing? The reasons are still valid even to this day. Click and read. (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)

That was a funny read. You could almost feel the spittle of the author as he typed!

Thank you.

Why the America Bashing? The reasons are still valid even to this day. Click and read. (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)

Well, that made me hate America. I can now disagree with everything America does.

However, the way that they are portrayed "Based on a true story" leads people to believe that they are true. Especially if that person has no prior knowledge of that event.

Yes. Based on a true story says events are true but the story is fictional.

Much different then "This is a true story"

I guess that is the difference between us and that limey speak you have over there. :p

Well, that made me hate America. I can now disagree with everything America does.
Me too, and I started this thread!

I've read many books upon the subject, a lot of the deaths at the U.S. beaches were caused by your sinking tanks and the rush to get to Berlin before the USSR. The haste involved didn't help your actions at all.


Oh this should be fun.

Do list some of your library.

Me too, and I started this thread!

The author said do your research.

Some of his points are right on.

Many are leaving out other issues.

We were already in Africa, actually. Yes, you helped. But not that much. Lend-lease was handy for both countries, we got some things, you got more money than you can shake a golden stick at. Your economy was buggered until another world war cropped up, remember that. Also, the Chinese would have doubtless helped the USSR were the Japanese to invade.You never would have succeeded in Africa without American intervention, however. Not to mention there wouldn't have been a sufficient push from the West with Britain being the sole power involved. Understand that the Germany that the Soviets beat was only half, and vice versa.

I've read many books upon the subject, a lot of the deaths at the U.S. beaches were caused by your sinking tanks and the rush to get to Berlin before the USSR. The haste involved didn't help your actions at all.Of course there was a great deal of haste involved, the USSR was as big of a threat as Germany really....


Granted, communism does require 100% support, but so does democracy, if you think about it. Your free speech is removed by the Patriot Act. And would you really rather that the poor starved than that you could one-up your fellow countrymen?Democracy does not require 100% support, an election can be won by 51%. I agree that the patriot act has removed our freedoms, but that has nothing to do with democracy, that has to do with a corrupt system. The poor aren't starving in America, I know because I grew up in that situation.

The smaller economies argument is a poor one. You're still in massive debt and propped up by the EU.The West is one big economy really, and a country the size of the US comes with a debt that fits.

Edit: btw, you got me to read up a bit on our debt, and turns out the Brits are only up on us by 1 trillion... for several thousand years of imperialism, you folks sure don't manage your money well.

Edit: btw, you got me to read up a bit on our debt, and turns out the Brits are only up on us by 1 trillion... for several thousand years of imperialism, you folks sure don't manage your money well.

You forget that's our fault as well. ;)

You never would have succeeded in Africa without American intervention, however. Not to mention there wouldn't have been a sufficient push from the West with Britain being the sole power involved. Understand that the Germany that the Soviets beat was only half, and vice versa.

Of course there was a great deal of haste involved, the USSR was as big of a threat as Germany really....

Democracy does not require 100% support, an election can be won by 51%. I agree that the patriot act has removed our freedoms, but that has nothing to do with democracy, that has to do with a corrupt system. The poor aren't starving in America, I know because I grew up in that situation.

The West is one big economy really, and a country the size of the US comes with a debt that fits.

Edit: btw, you got me to read up a bit on our debt, and turns out the Brits are only up on us by 1 trillion... for several thousand years of imperialism, you folks sure don't manage your money well.

There didn't need to be a push from the west! By June 1944, almost every country previously under the control of the Germans had formed resistance movements, pushed them out, and started going on the offensive. Also, the "half" that the Russians retook was incredibly important. They had the manpower and will to take the whole of Germany over, and along with the resistance movements they probably could have.

How was the USSR as great a threat as Nazi Germany? Oh yeah, they're commies and things. Now I remember. Sworn enemies.

Democracy does require 100% support. Despite and election being won by 51%, unless you put a "dissolve this crap and bring in a benevolent dictatorship/monarchy/let this area be a seperate state" option on a ballot, then it doesn't give the opinions of the whole populace, especially if only 40% of people can really be bothered to vote. And as such isn't really democratic.

The western world is not one big economy. The economies of Europe and the USA are vastly different. They might both be privatised, but in Europe, businesses give money back to the government and in the USA the government helps fund big businesses. A huge difference, you'll see.

And what do you mean by that "thousands of years of imperialism" shite?

Our empire lasted for about 450 years. That's it. 450 is 0.45 of one thousand. Which is not a plural. And to be honest, at least we had the kindness to help our various colonies by giving them healthcare, transport, education and crime safety. What have you given Iraq and Afghanistan? A first-class ticket back to the iron age.

I'd also like to point out that you took all of our money after world war two, so our debt is mostly your fault. Which was rather unpleasant of you.

There didn't need to be a push from the west! By June 1944, almost every country previously under the control of the Germans had formed resistance movements, pushed them out, and started going on the offensive. Also, the "half" that the Russians retook was incredibly important. They had the manpower and will to take the whole of Germany over, and along with the resistance movements they probably could have.
They'd also have taken France, Italy and so on. On the whole, it was probably better for me personally that they didn't.

Nonetheless, militarily, the Western Allies didn't make that big an impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
This should really convince most people that D-Day and all that was little more than a diversion from where the real action was.

They'd also have taken France, Italy and so on. On the whole, it was probably better for me personally that they didn't.

Nonetheless, militarily, the Western Allies didn't make that big an impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
This should really convince most people that D-Day and all that was little more than a diversion from where the real action was.

They may well have taken Italy, but what would they have wanted France for? They were allies all of the way through the first half of the 20th century. I don't think that they'd invade France by any means.

They may well have taken Italy, but what would they have wanted France for? They were allies all of the way through the first half of the 20th century. I don't think that they'd invade France by any means.
This is Stalin we're talking about. As the leader of a country that has just won the biggest war in history, and suffered the greatest casualties for it.

And besides, there was no French government to speak of.

France would have suffered the same fate as Romania, Hungary or Czechoslovakia.

your mortal enemy, huh? what about the marshall plan that saved your sorry asses from communism, standing up to the soviet union, ridding your continent of nazism, the list goes on.


Well some of them don't think being saved from communism was a good thing. Personally, in hindsight I say we should have stayed home in WW2 and let the Nazis and Soviets batter each other into oblivion. To quote Kissenger, it's a shame both of them could not have lost.

I can understand why people despise us. They used to despise Great Britain at one time when the sun never set on her empire and went around the world staking claim to the world in the name of Her Majesty. All we have done is taken up the torch where the Brits left off.

Personally I am an isolationist and could really care less if Saddam was killing 500,000 or 5 million. As long as he's leaving us alone, who gives a damn? Nobody else did so why should we? Attack us and we turn your country into glass, it's that simple. Think about it, no one hates Sweden or Switzerland. Lets play in our own house and let the chips fall where they may. I am tired of every administration whether it's the current chucklehead invading Iraq or the last moron bombing Serbia or trying to feed starving Somalis. It's gotten us nothing but grief and international emnity.

It would be nice to have a candidate run on a America First and to hell with the rest platform. In this current political climate he/she would probably do very well :upyours:

This is Stalin we're talking about. As the leader of a country that has just won the biggest war in history, and suffered the greatest casualties for it.

And besides, there was no French government to speak of.

France would have suffered the same fate as Romania, Hungary or Czechoslovakia.

I personally doubt that, but since this is a hypothetical situation there's little point in arguing over it.

And @ That American chappie who posted before me -

Giving aid and getting involved in wars is very different. The EU gives vast sums of aid out, but hasn't got involved in any frivolous wars in recent years.

I'm all for countries stopping acting as global police (the UK included) and I hope that the money saved would be put into research into curing HIV or giving food out to people, but it'll never happen, I reckon.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

If the UK had kept control of the 13 colonies and France had kept control of Louisiana, thereby keeping America from ever having existed, then they would probably have been strong enough to defeat Germany. If nothing else, the capital of UK would have moved to New York until they had beaten the Germans back enough.

What's more. Hitler had already lightened up on Britain before the US entered the war. This whole, "forgive us for the evil we do now because we were good for something 60 years ago," really is getting a little old.

I personally doubt that, but since this is a hypothetical situation there's little point in arguing over it.


Why would he have stopped? Neu is right. Given the opportunity he would have taken it. Master of all Europe? He would have taken the chance. Especially if the US had sat out the war.

If the UK had kept control of the 13 colonies and France had kept control of Louisiana, thereby keeping America from ever having existed, then they would probably have been strong enough to defeat Germany. If nothing else, the capital of UK would have moved to New York until they had beaten the Germans back enough.

Hmmmm probably not.

If the UK had kept the colonies then they would have fought over them. Napoleon probably would have been more interested at the prospects of Canada and the the colonies.

What ifs are fun! ;)

Because, as I said, France and the USSR were allies. By the time that the USSR was in Berlin, most of the German troops in France would have to have been recalled to Berlin and the French resistance groups could have re-formed a French government.

Stalin was also not entirely crazy. He knew where to draw the line. Attacking a nation that had supported him would have crippled his reputation and probably have caused British troops to attack (probably through Finland via Sweden) the USSR.

And @ That American chappie who posted before me -

Giving aid and getting involved in wars is very different. The EU gives vast sums of aid out, but hasn't got involved in any frivolous wars in recent years.


Yep. And a lot of good it's done considering the 3rd world is still a basket case. I'm a capitalist and believe in seeing a return on my investment. If I give a nation a billion dollars in aid I expect to see an improvement not the current Bono pleading for more money to be shoveled down a rathole.

I mean take the Marshall plan. It worked because Western Europe wisely used the money to rebuild. Japan is another example. Bombed literally into the stone age in WW2 and after reconstruction is one the top economic powers in the world with zero natural resources.

The US and the EU has pumped untold billions of development aid into Africa and it's worse off than it was 30 years ago. Hello McFly! Does no one see a pattern there? Countries like the Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe and Liberia which were once the shining beacons of development and success are now total shitholes. What has all that aid gotten them or us? Nothing but guilt trips to send more money.

Sorry but that money could be better put to use in our own country.

Well some of them don't think being saved from communism was a good thing. Personally, in hindsight I say we should have stayed home in WW2 and let the Nazis and Soviets batter each other into oblivion. To quote Kissenger, it's a shame both of them could not have lost.

I can understand why people despise us. They used to despise Great Britain at one time when the sun never set on her empire and went around the world staking claim to the world in the name of Her Majesty. All we have done is taken up the torch where the Brits left off.

Personally I am an isolationist and could really care less if Saddam was killing 500,000 or 5 million. As long as he's leaving us alone, who gives a damn? Nobody else did so why should we? Attack us and we turn your country into glass, it's that simple. Think about it, no one hates Sweden or Switzerland. Lets play in our own house and let the chips fall where they may. I am tired of every administration whether it's the current chucklehead invading Iraq or the last moron bombing Serbia or trying to feed starving Somalis. It's gotten us nothing but grief and international emnity.

It would be nice to have a candidate run on a America First and to hell with the rest platform. In this current political climate he/she would probably do very well :upyours:

1: Yes, we should always sit idly by and watch people get oppressed. Great idea.

2: Agreed.

3: You have a point, but I for one have a problem with countries that oppress people because they think they have the "right to do so". Now, I wasn't for invading Iraq for the reasons that were given, and I sure as hell didn't agree with the military strategy (or lack thereof) involved. I would've been all for an invasion if it was just to oust Saddam, but that would've been problematic anyway, because there are a lot of extremist Muslims who will do whatever they can to put an oppressive regime in power (which is exactly what they're doing now).

4: No. Countries like ours going isolationist in this day and age is ridiculous. We need more nations in the global field, not less. And that "smilie" really needs to be scrapped.

It's because we're an easier target than everyone else.

Because, as I said, France and the USSR were allies. By the time that the USSR was in Berlin, most of the German troops in France would have to have been recalled to Berlin and the French resistance groups could have re-formed a French government.

Stalin was also not entirely crazy. He knew where to draw the line. Attacking a nation that had supported him would have crippled his reputation and probably have caused British troops to attack (probably through Finland via Sweden) the USSR.

Reputation for what? He would have changed the name of Europe to the USSR.

British troops attacking through Sweden? With what? British Tanks again T-34's hmmmmm

Finally, why would he be loyal? The communists remembered the little invasion by the US, Britain and France at the time of the Revolution.

Yep. And a lot of good it's done considering the 3rd world is still a basket case. I'm a capitalist and believe in seeing a return on my investment. If I give a nation a billion dollars in aid I expect to see an improvement not the current Bono pleading for more money to be shoveled down a rathole.

I mean take the Marshall plan. It worked because Western Europe wisely used the money to rebuild. Japan is another example. Bombed literally into the stone age in WW2 and after reconstruction is one the top economic powers in the world with zero natural resources.

The US and the EU has pumped untold billions of development aid into Africa and it's worse off than it was 30 years ago. Hello McFly! Does no one see a pattern there? Countries like the Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe and Liberia which were once the shining beacons of development and success are now total shitholes. What has all that aid gotten them or us? Nothing but guilt trips to send more money.

Sorry but that money could be better put to use in our own country.

Africa's a shithole because of the corrupt leaders there, many of whom you put (if indirectly) into power. Sorry about that.

@Zatarack

If by that you mean "because they've got more reason to" then yes, but let's not have any more fucking self-pity, alright? The world's grown weary of it.

We don't hate your freedom or whatever crap Fox News forces down your throat (I have it on Sky and as such can watch it - what utter bullshit it claims to be true...). Read that site. Learn the real reasons that people don't like America.

*edits*

A Churchill kicks the crap into a T-34, as does a Comet.

And I'm sure that he did remember the minor invasion, but it was a pretty pitiful effort and the October Revolution wasn't really halted by it at all.

Why would he want the whole of Europe under his control anyway? The sheer level of corruption that would ensue would ruin communism in the USSR even faster than by 1991.

4: No. Countries like ours going isolationist in this day and age is ridiculous. We need more nations in the global field, not less. And that "smilie" really needs to be scrapped.

Never mind the fact we really can't.

Factory production is pretty well gone.
Food production is slowly getting that way.

Not going to happen.....

We don't hate your freedom or whatever crap Fox News forces down your throat (I have it on Sky and as such can watch it - what utter bullshit it claims to be true...). Read that site. Learn the real reasons that people don't like America.

One could easily say that site is full of bullshit.

One could easily say that site is full of bullshit.

You could, if you were willfully ignoring the truth of the issue.

Africa's a shithole because of the corrupt leaders there, many of whom you put (if indirectly) into power. Sorry about that.

Who? The US? Au Contraire. Pardon me but who exactly had colonies in Africa? Last time I checked, the US was late into the imperialism game and had to settle for Cuba and the Philipines. We didn't get a chance to get to the Dark Continent. You might want to take a look at your own country's less than stellar contribution to the post-colonial era.

You could, if you were willfully ignoring the truth of the issue.

One could also easily make a site about all the great things that the United States of America has done for the world. I won't deny that the site may have some points, but it ignores the good America has done. A site like that could easily also be made for pretty much every nation on this planet.

What do you mean by that?

We give more aid than the French, and they conquered more of Africa than us. The ex-British countries are also the ones which are seemingly doing better.

One could also easily make a site about all the great things that the United States of America has done for the world. I won't deny that the site may have some points, but it ignores the good America has done. A site like that could easily also be made for pretty much every nation on this planet.

Alright, name 60+ good things that the USA has done, then?

World Wars 1 and 2 count as two things.

Alright, name 60+ good things that the USA has done, then?

World Wars 1 and 2 count as two things.

You want me to name 60+ good things the USA has done for the world? If I don't you will say my point no longer counts. If I do you will say they are all wrong or are only good for some. No matter what answer I choose you will still continue with current trend of posts.

What do you mean by that?

We give more aid than the French, and they conquered more of Africa than us. The ex-British countries are also the ones which are seemingly doing better.
Now that's just bullshit. All the colonial powers fucked up Africa and you know it. Now you are just downplaying your own nation's faults.

A Churchill kicks the crap into a T-34, as does a Comet.

And I'm sure that he did remember the minor invasion, but it was a pretty pitiful effort and the October Revolution wasn't really halted by it at all.

Why would he want the whole of Europe under his control anyway? The sheer level of corruption that would ensue would ruin communism in the USSR even faster than by 1991.

And how many Churchills and Comets were in use?

Point of the invasion comment is that "France is our ally" would probably not have prevented it.

I really doubt he was woried about Corruption when they kept East Germany, Poland, Hungary, etc.

He probably wouldn't have worried about it in Germany, Italy or France as well.

Oh and -editing- a response in to me in a reply to somebody else does look a tad strange. ;)

Can we skip the part about listening to the UN? Personally I think it's a bad idea to listen to a body that has nations like Sudan on it's human rights commitee.

Snap ! Ha ha ha, that was good one. But seriously, lets get back to the real debate.

What do you mean by that?

We give more aid than the French, and they conquered more of Africa than us.

So what? The point I was making is all the aid being pumped in is doing zero good unless you're President of the Week.

The ex-British countries are also the ones which are seemingly doing better.

Yeah Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) is a real success story. Oh Somalia (formerly Somaliland) is just a thriving nation. Uganda...yeah Idi Amin was just a misunderstood chap. Oh and lets not forger that humanitarian beacon known as the Sudan.

Your argument is like saying Iraq is better off without Saddam.

1: Yes, we should always sit idly by and watch people get oppressed. Great idea.

Why not, what's it gotten us? We bombed a bunch of white Christians to stop them from killing a bunch of Muslims and what do they do after 9/11? Dance in the streets. Funny, guys like Milosovec and Saddam killed a helluvua lot of Muslims but the chants are always Death to America.


3: You have a point, but I for one have a problem with countries that oppress people because they think they have the "right to do so". Now, I wasn't for invading Iraq for the reasons that were given, and I sure as hell didn't agree with the military strategy (or lack thereof) involved. I would've been all for an invasion if it was just to oust Saddam, but that would've been problematic anyway, because there are a lot of extremist Muslims who will do whatever they can to put an oppressive regime in power (which is exactly what they're doing now).

So where does it end? Are we going after Iran or Syria next? How about Saudi Arabia? North Korea? Hey, I'm a hawk myself. If this country is attacked, I say turn the attacker into glass. But this crusading trying to install democracies into nations that don't have the political maturity to handle it is a waste of time, money and lives.


4: No. Countries like ours going isolationist in this day and age is ridiculous. We need more nations in the global field, not less.

No it isn't. Like I said, you don't see anyone yelling Death to Sweden! do you?
I'm not saying we can't be in the international community but when it comes to dealing with say, Iran, screw them. Let someone else deal with it. The reason is because once we get one the negotiating table, everyone looks for us to take the lead and when it ends up going south, we get blamed for fooking it up.

The problem is Americans want results. Take the case of Iran, those negotiations have been going on forever. The Iranians will not give up on enrichment, period. So you either concede it, force sanctions or use military action. The UN won't go for sanctions, the Euros won't use military force so its a moot point and the Iranians know it. Sudan was another prime example. The UN could not even agree on sanctions so Khartoum is free to do as it pleases because they know the EU won't use military force. So why should we stick our neck out when none of our 'allies' will back us up?

Alright, name 60+ good things that the USA has done, then?

World Wars 1 and 2 count as two things.

Do the same for Great Britain.

snip

You beat me to it. I was going to post somehting like this but I'll spare the forum two simmilar threads.

Anyway I find it odd that a few at the very worst 500 insurgents are turtured and the world panics while thousands are killed and turuted dailly in China North Korea and Darfur. I'm not supporting what happened at Abu-Grabe but who would rather turture some people who just blew up a buch of civilians or soem random guy who did nothing wrong? yes we're arogent but so are you. When we police the world we're imperialists when we don't we don't care about human life. Find someone esle to blame. Like Greenland. Who lives in Greenland anyway? It must be all their fault.

A Churchill kicks the crap into a T-34, as does a Comet.
1) The Brits sent tanks to the Soviets as part of the support scheme. The Russians tried them, and weren't impressed. They asked for more trucks and other such simple things instead.

2) The Churchill was a heavy tank, the T-34 a medium tank intended for use in masses. The Comet came in so late that it doesn't even count.

3) If you wanna compare heavy tanks, go right ahead. But the Soviets had things like the IS-3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IS-2), which was proabably the most powerful tank of the entire war, or the KV-Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KV-1).

4) The T-34 was also being improved all the time. At the end of the war, they became the T-44 and ultimately T-54/55.

Alright, name 60+ good things that the USA has done, then?

World Wars 1 and 2 count as two things.

Modern Democracy in the world, or I could spilt that up into every country that has a democracy. I think that's about 160ish.
Bosnian Genocide
both WW's
Cold war. (that was 40 years of helping you)
The fact that Europe doesn't need a strong Army because you know damn well we'd save your ass again.
I could go into every invetion made in the US but I won't.
Hey... wait a minute! 60+ is one hell of a lot of things and I doubt you could find any country with that many, at least not off the top of your head unless you're a history major.

That was a funny read. You could almost feel the spittle of the author as he typed!

Thank you.

Whatever floats your boat. Unlike your typical FOX News employee however, each of those points are based in fact. Can you refute all of them?

Whatever floats your boat. Unlike your typical FOX News employee however, each of those points are based in fact. Can you refute all of them?

Actually you sound like a Fox News employee since you belive them without question.

As I have said some of them he is right on. More then a few he over simplifies.

But you wouldn't believe that anyway.

-edit-

I might add that the author takes an interesting approach. Guilty until proven innocent. That way he doesn't have to defend his comments as he himself says he didn't research them and leaves it for other people.

Overall, it's a bitter persons dirty list of a country he hates. You can find crappy acts in every major nation.

In response to the first post . . .

it's been gone over a million times--Bush won both elections legally. Please, please, get over the BS that he stole them. It isn't true.

On to other topics--Americans are just like anyone everywhere else in the world. We just want to live our lives the best way we think possible. Sure some of our ideas may be different, and we're probably at least a good 50 lbs heavier than everyone else . . . but if you take the time to know us, you'll learn that we're pretty much exactly like you.

In response to the first post . . .

it's been gone over a million times--Bush won both elections legally. Please, please, get over the BS that he stole them. It isn't true.

On to other topics--Americans are just like anyone everywhere else in the world. We just want to live our lives the best way we think possible. Sure some of our ideas may be different, and we're probably at least a good 50 lbs heavier than everyone else . . . but if you take the time to know us, you'll learn that we're pretty much exactly like you.

Just because he won them legally doesn't me I have to like it!

summary of this entire board is as follows:
hey look at this site America sucks
hey you better shut up we saved you guys in WWII

repeat about fifty times.

To those who can't stand it when some one critises their country: suck it up, princiness. No country has the right ot not be offended and some criticism is healthy. No-one likes a whiner, and this mesage goes to EVERYONE (even the North Koreans).

I'm an American, but until I see a Government that has a set of Brains, who are a bunch of Religious Extreme Right Wing Neo-Facists in a Neo-Con disguise. When I can say that this is not
The United States of Haliburton! Then I will stop.

But for now. I'll laugh at this stuff: http://wever.ytmnd.com/

(Heh United States of Halliburton I need to put that as my Location Tag)

You want me to name 60+ good things the USA has done for the world? If I don't you will say my point no longer counts. If I do you will say they are all wrong or are only good for some. No matter what answer I choose you will still continue with current trend of posts.

And how, may I ask, do you know that?

As I said, give me 60+ good things and I might change my mind.

To that chap who post some (sorry about downplaying them, but some of them just made mepractically scream out loud!) -

Tell me that America started off democracy in the various nations of the world is just ridiculous. Several countries had it before America. Really, Iceland is the starter of a modern democracy. Also remember that your form of democracy, with checks and balances and the Electoral College, the Congress etc. is very different from the democracy of almost every other country in the world.

As I said, both world wars are two things, granted.

Yes, you helped in Bosnia quite a lot. But where were you in Rwanda? Still reeling from Somalia.

The cold war was a ridiculous waste of everyone's time. Keeping the world on edge simply because you don't like somebody's ideology is a bit strange. I wouldn't have done it, but then I probably know nothing about what was really going on. Also - we lend-leased you hovercrafts and weapons in the Vietnam war - that's help, isn't it?

Europe has a strong army because it knows what a loose cannon the USA is.

I could go into every invention made by the British that you claimed to be your own, but I won't.





Right... onto the USSR issue.

You can't claim that Comets "don't count" whilst mentioning T-44s. There were about as many T-44s as Comets.

A Churchill isn't comparable to an IS-series tank, they were in a different class entirely. And a Churchill utterly pans a KV.

True, the USSR had many, many tanks, but the crewing of said tanks was (generally) pretty poor. A British-controlled Comet could take out several T-34s of any series (probably even a T-34/85).


And now onto the Africa issue.

Sudan, Zimbabwe, Somalia. Admittedly terrible and it is mostly our fault, true.

Now onto the French colonies.

The Ivory Coast (Côte D'Ivoire if you must), Sierra Leonne, The RCA and many more.

It's the same real problem in both, so you can't really level it at either side. Crap leaders now are not really the fault of people who left years ago.

And yes, Iraq is much worse off without Saddam, but I don't see how that's relevant to Africa.


P.S @ LondoMari

The UK isn't so universally hated that it has to defend itself. The USA is rapidly approaching that fact. It might not be a fair comment, but it is quite true.

P.P.S @ The Jovian Moons

The Darfur region, China and North Korea don't operate under the pretence that they're the most fair nation in the world, who spreads democracy, though, do they?

Europe has a strong army because it knows what a loose cannon the USA is.
Europe is not a country, thus it does not have an army.

The EGF could easily be used as an army, plus there's talk of melding the EU's forces into one super-large army.

The EGF could easily be used as an army, plus there's talk of melding the EU's forces into one super-large army.
Which has not materialized yet.
Economically speaking, we could lump the EU countries together and call them Europe, but as far as martial strength goes we must still look at them as individual countries.

The EGF has materialised! I've seen videos of them training to fight violent riots and such.

And no, Europe is not yet one military state. I don't see why not, though. Then the UK wouldn't send its troops off to wherever the USA tells it to go. And that would be for the best.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Just gotta say, not that I agree with you or anything, but I get the feeling you won't get much in the way of useable answers. Though, who knows, maybe we'll both be pleasantly suprised.

The EGF has materialised! I've seen videos of them training to fight violent riots and such.
I've never heard of this organization, unless you're talking about the European Genetics Foundation or the obscure European Go Foundation.

The EGF has materialised! I've seen videos of them training to fight violent riots and such.

And no, Europe is not yet one military state. I don't see why not, though. Then the UK wouldn't send its troops off to wherever the USA tells it to go. And that would be for the best.

UK wouldn't send its troops off to wherever the USA tells it to go, but Australia does! :p :eek:

Just gotta say, not that I agree with you or anything, but I get the feeling you won't get much in the way of useable answers. Though, who knows, maybe we'll both be pleasantly suprised.
Or you know, there are lots of usable answers, but you don't like them and ignore them. (which is most likely)

Europe had its turn at being World Superpower. Let someone else have a chance. BTW if i had the chance to take over the world even if it was only for a few days i would do it.

Or you know, there are lots of usable answers, but you don't like them and ignore them. (which is most likely)

Ouch. You just proved my implied position and I bet you'll deny it after I comment on it even.

The EGF could easily be used as an army, plus there's talk of melding the EU's forces into one super-large army.
To what end?

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Pisses me off too.

How to solve this? Just do not read anything that pisses you off. Ignore the ignorant bastards. Screw them, no not literally.




Looks as if this thread has turn into a "my stick is bigger than your stick" thread.

To what end?
There's talk about that as well.

Pisses me off too.

How to solve this? Just do not read anything that pisses you off. Ignore the ignorant bastards. Screw them, no not literally.


Yeah, that's exactly what GW Shrub does as a president.


Looks as if this thread has turn into a "my stick is bigger than your stick" thread.

That's what you get when talking about a nation which uses a big stick to whack other nations into line.

There's talk about that as well.
What's the discussion?

What's the discussion?
The expected. Most of the stuff I've read is about, "If Russia invades, who will protect us?!"
Nothing really progressive or useful.
I personally think the EU should only have a small force for peace-keeping and intervention. The rest should be slated under the UN or NATO.

The expected. Most of the stuff I've read is about, "If Russia invades, who will protect us?!"
Nothing really progressive or useful.
I personally think the EU should only have a small force for peace-keeping and intervention. The rest should be slated under the UN or NATO.


And I really thought the EGF ( or what acronym it is this year ) was about the ability to act independently from NATO. The UN is neither organised nor authorised to have its own force-structure.

And I really thought the EGF ( or what acronym it is this year ) was about the ability to act independently from NATO. The UN is neither organised nor authorised to have its own force-structure.
I have no idea what EGF is. I can't comment on that.
I know the UN cannot have its own force-structure. What I was trying to express is that if the EU does gain the ability to have its own army so to say, that should be the organization to send troops on UN peace-keeping missions and the like. As there would be problems for smaller nations falling under both EU and UN obligations. However, I'm not all that well read on the subject, and reeling from spring allergies.

I have no idea what EGF is. I can't comment on that.
I know the UN cannot have its own force-structure. What I was trying to express is that if the EU does gain the ability to have its own army so to say, that should be the organization to send troops on UN peace-keeping missions and the like. As there would be problems for smaller nations falling under both EU and UN obligations. However, I'm not all that well read on the subject, and reeling from spring allergies.


Have a ( virtual ) pill - care of the NHS.

The acronym for New European Defense Identity has been changing yearly ever since the Wall fell - and the same thing can be said about the theories defining the role and raison d'etre it would have.
Which isn't perhaps all that strange, for EGF would be not-NATO. And the good old Alliance itself has been suffering from severe identity-confusion since 1989.

Centralising each and every bit of military power on the planet under control of the Big Five of the Sec.Council would really get my vote, but a lot of folks seem to have severe objections. It may be mere coincidence,
but one can't help noting that the severest objections come from those who seem to be entertaining ideas of starting something if they could get away with it.
Of course, it may be mere coincidence but the parties that seem most interested in retaining the power to start something are all sort-of involved in the current Clash of Cultures. Equally divided on both sides.

This goes way beyond Bush. America's culture of violence, lack of concern for other citizens, arrogance and naive Christian fundamentalism is disgusting. It is bad because it is pro-suffering.

Have a ( virtual ) pill - care of the NHS.
I'm actually coping quite well. I have horseradish (http://www.cajom.com/pepparrot1.jpg)!
-snip-
Thanks for the lesson.
Centralising each and every bit of military power on the planet under control of the Big Five of the Sec.Council would really get my vote, but a lot of folks seem to have severe objections.
It'd get my vote as well.
It may be mere coincidence, but one can't help noting that the severest objections come from those who seem to be entertaining ideas of starting something if they could get away with it.
Of course, it may be mere coincidence but the parties that seem most interested in retaining the power to start something are all sort-of involved in the current Clash of Cultures. Equally divided on both sides.
I don't like crying, "Clash of Cultures!" because then the situation sounds hopeless. I'll think of a catch-pharase for it later, not to mention the business terminology for "catch-phrase".

I'm actually coping quite well. I have horseradish (http://www.cajom.com/pepparrot1.jpg)!

Thanks for the lesson.

It'd get my vote as well.

I don't like crying, "Clash of Cultures!" because then the situation sounds hopeless. I'll think of a catch-pharase for it later, not to mention the business terminology for "catch-phrase".

*grin* horseradish gets my vote too.

Meh - nothing is ultimately hopeless. Even cultures eventually die. So, chin up!

But, anyway, some 15 years ago ( after Francis Fukuyama flogged his End of History notion ) I made meself a litle short-list of Folks Who Will Prove Fukuyama Wrong. With the exception of the PRC, the whole battalion has been present and accounted for, by now.

*grin* horseradish gets my vote too.

Meh - nothing is ultimately hopeless. Even cultures eventually die. So, chin up!

But, anyway, some 15 years ago ( after Francis Fukuyama flogged his End of History notion ) I made meself a lit short-list of Folks Who Will Prove Fukuyama Wrong. With the exception of the PRC, the whole battalion has been present and accounted for, by now.

I had to read The End of History for a uni module a few weeks ago. What a load of twaddle; no wonder he keeps having to change what he said and defending it constantly. What defy's the imagination more is that he just released another book...

I had to read The End of History for a uni module a few weeks ago. What a load of twaddle; no wonder he keeps having to change what he said and defending it constantly. What defy's the imagination more is that he just released another book...

He's been revoking the idea ( belatedly ) admitting he was so utterly and totally off the mark.

Which is a good thing, since the NeoCon contingent ( I nominate them for the new name ClueLessCons ) are still appealing to ideas whose originator ( Francis ) has already renounced himself.

I'd substitute Spengler's Decline of the West in that course instead- but then again, I don't get to define uni modules. That civilisations continously rise and fall, and that there is no final state possible, is a lesson that can't be reinforced enough.

To what end?

To better defend Europe, of course.

And the EGF is the European Gendarmerie Force (spelling?). It's essentially a super-elite crime tackling force. They've got CBQ training and such, as well as the best weapons around.

So they're sort of like X-COM, but against criminals (to anyone who doesn't know what X-COM is, download the first game from Abandonia and learn).

Meh - nothing is ultimately hopeless. Even cultures eventually die. So, chin up!
*laughs while fetching a sandwich*
Enlightening, but not uplifting, due to my unwillingness to fully accept reality.
That civilisations continously rise and fall, and that there is no final state possible, is a lesson that can't be reinforced enough.
The never ending "thesis, antithesis, and sythesis" cycle is something Hegel, Marx, and Fukuyama ignore all too convienently.

*laughs while fetching a sandwich*
Enlightening, but not uplifting, due to my unwillingness to fully accept reality.

The never ending "thesis, antithesis, and sythesis" cycle is something Hegel, Marx, and Fukuyama ignore all too convienently.

They're all doing eschatology. Generally accepted as belonging to metaphysics, not to the comfy and soundly sane surroundings of logic. Not really science. Scratch that: not science at all. And books on eschatology ought to care a little warning-label.



And let me get this on the record now, as I keep forgetting it in religious and philosophical threads:

In the realm of metaphysics, stunning departures from logic and rationality are allowed by the rulebook! ( just be careful about transposing metaphysical rules to every day life...)

Give me some concrete examples of what we "stole".
Rocket propulsion.
Synthetic gasoline.
Synthetic rubber and fabrics.
Electro engines for submarines and planes.
Variouse drugs.
http://www.deutschland-bewegung.de/weiter/d_verluste2.html

I already explained to you the whole Marshall Plan thing..
Which was a big hoax.

And let me get this on the record now, as I keep forgetting it in religious and philosophical threads: In the realm of metaphysics, stunning departures from logic and rationality are allowed by the rulebook!
You could avoid all that forgetting and just transcribe it into your siggy.
( just be careful about transposing metaphysical rules to every day life...)
Too late, sorry.
Every time I open my fridge, Marx materializes on my left shoulder and procedes to argue with Adam Smith and Anders Chydenius on my right, whether or not my motives for eating smoked turkey and not balogna are purely based on my real income.

Rocket propulsion.
Synthetic gasoline.
Synthetic rubber and fabrics.
Electro engines for submarines and planes.
Variouse drugs.
http://www.deutschland-bewegung.de/weiter/d_verluste2.html


Which was a big hoax.

I'll agre with you that the US stole more than a little technology from the Germans. However I believe your labeling of the Marshall Plan as a hoax to be wrong. It was a not a hoax; more than $13 Billion was appropriated by Marshall and Congress to give to European countries after 1947. Whilst it was certainly a self-serving plan, used to gain allies against the USSR via economic bribery, it cannot be said to be a hoax. The economic benefits for the European countries that accepted the economic aid cannot be denied.

http://i2.tinypic.com/t8sv3a.gif

And how, may I ask, do you know that?

As I said, give me 60+ good things and I might change my mind.


Yes, you helped in Bosnia quite a lot. But where were you in Rwanda? Still reeling from Somalia.

Well lets seem where exactly was Britain or the rest of the forward thinking EU? The Dutch I think were doing the most by getting out of the country as fast as they could. I find it interesting you can criticize our lack of involvment while you're nation was sitting on it's hands. Some might call that hypocrisy.


The cold war was a ridiculous waste of everyone's time. Keeping the world on edge simply because you don't like somebody's ideology is a bit strange.

I guess you can make the same argument about National Socialism as well right?


I wouldn't have done it, but then I probably know nothing about what was really going on.

That much is obvious.



Also - we lend-leased you hovercrafts and weapons in the Vietnam war - that's help, isn't it?

What? Got any evidence to support this?


Europe has a strong army because it knows what a loose cannon the USA is.

Sorry, I almost fell out of my chair in laughter on this one. Outside of Britain and perhaps France, there is no European country that can project force. At best, the Brits can ferry two divisions internationally and the French maybe a heavy brigade. As for the rest, nothing more than glorified policie forces.



And now onto the Africa issue.

Sudan, Zimbabwe, Somalia. Admittedly terrible and it is mostly our fault, true.

Now onto the French colonies.

The Ivory Coast (Côte D'Ivoire if you must), Sierra Leonne, The RCA and many more.

It's the same real problem in both, so you can't really level it at either side. Crap leaders now are not really the fault of people who left years ago.

Well based upon a previous post you made, you indicated Africa's troubles were due to corrupt leaders that we (the US) placed there. Glad to see that you're at least admitting your own country's role. And yes, crap leaders are your fault. It's called the post-colonial vacum that you left behind. Rather than sticking it out and trying to shepard a viable political model like Hong Kong or India, you just cut and run and let the house of cards fall so yes, it is your problem.


And yes, Iraq is much worse off without Saddam, but I don't see how that's relevant to Africa.

You stated that African colonies that were under British rule were doing oh so much better than the others. I refuted that comment with examples. You're saying that former Brit African colonies were better is like saying Iraq is better off without Saddam.


P.S @ LondoMari

The UK isn't so universally hated that it has to defend itself. The USA is rapidly approaching that fact. It might not be a fair comment, but it is quite true.

I agree which is why I advocate a withdrawl from not only Iraq, but also all our aid and military and let the rest of the world fend for itself and just leave the message that any attack on the US will be met with massive retaliation. Just like French said they would do.


The Darfur region, China and North Korea don't operate under the pretence that they're the most fair nation in the world, who spreads democracy, though, do they?

Kinda of missing the point as to why they are on the UN human rights commission. Forget pretenses, they simply don't qualify.

You could avoid all that forgetting and just transcribe it into your siggy.

Too late, sorry.
Every time I open my fridge, Marx materializes on my left shoulder and procedes to argue with Adam Smith and Anders Chydenius on my right, whether or not my motives for eating smoked turkey and not balogna are purely based on my real income.

Actually, I was kind of thinking about using the Great Snark Hunt for my sigfile.

*laughs*

I'm often interrupted at night by Kung-Fu-Tse and Jesus having it out over the existence and final destiny of my soul. Buddha tries to play Referee - with maximum ineffectiveness.

But who on earth is Anders Chydenius?

OMG - this is becoming a wee bit to vain.
Right - I'll put my thoughts on scandalous parties that stick huge loads of cash into the wrong place vz scandalous parties that stick huge ( deleted ) into the wrong place.

But who on earth is Anders Chydenius?
He's a Finland-Swede that wrote essentially Adam Smith presented in "The Wealth of Nations" years earlier. The catch: His works have never been translated (until recently maybe, but it really doesn't matter). It is also neccessary to know that Chydenius only presented his ideas in a practical letter style to the Swedish state, and didn't write a book about it in the same way Smith did, who pretty much said, "Hey, governments, stop caring about the economy if you wish to be liberal!" You might be able to guess what he would have said better, seeing as to how you're near Scotland and all.

He's a Finland-Swede that wrote essentially Adam Smith presented in "The Wealth of Nations" years earlier. The catch: His works have never been translated (until recently maybe, but it really doesn't matter). It is also neccessary to know that Chydenius only presented his ideas in a practical letter style to the Swedish state, and didn't write a book about it in the same way Smith did, who pretty much said, "Hey, governments, stop caring about the economy if you wish to be liberal!" You might be able to guess what he would have said better, seeing as to how you're near Scotland and all.


Er... he should'ave presented his plan to the Government in Copenhagen?
Made some references to Saab's for the Masses?
Adding more Lutheran themes?
The obsession with saving half a penny on the price of a needle doesn't necessarily translate outside Scotland...
(I'm lost for once )


btw: for anyone who thinks we're hijacking the thread - we don't! We're indulging in the ultimate form of anti-americanism, we totally ignore the Americans.

Excuse me while I read up on Anders Chydenius.
I will return.

Excuse me while I read up on Anders Chydenius.
I will return.

I'll try to wait.

( Mind you, I feel like a wastrel for just having thrown away the but of a roll-your-own cig instead of recycling it, so perhaps the Scottish Attitude is indeed contagious. )
( And I plan to recycle my sig every week or so. )

Er... he should'ave presented his plan to the Government in Copenhagen?
After I checked which city he would be writing to, I can only guess it would have been Åbo/Turku, who would then send the letter to Stockholm or Uppsala later. Apparently, the Swedish capital has moved quite often.
Made some references to Saab's for the Masses?
No, but said that personal freedoms are nice and dandy. This is totally lazy, but just copy and paste what Adam Smith said here, but when you read it, read it with a Swedish accent. That's the ticket.
Adding more Lutheran themes?
No, but he did enjoy gardening. He tested new agricultural methods in swamps and such. He was also a doctor that lead the fight against smallpox.
The obsession with saving half a penny on the price of a needle doesn't necessarily translate outside Scotland...
Buy two needles and save a penny?

After I checked which city he would be writing to, I can only guess it would have been Åbo/Turku, who would then send the letter to Stockholm or Uppsala later. Apparently, the Swedish capital has moved quite often.

No, but said that personal freedoms are nice and dandy. This is totally lazy, but just copy and paste what Adam Smith said here, but when you read it, read it with a Swedish accent. That's the ticket.

No, but he did enjoy gardening. He tested new agricultural methods in swamps and such. He was also a doctor that lead the fight against smallpox.

Buy two needles and save a penny?

*thinks hard - and tries to fake a Swedish Accent*

Hallo, jeg er Anders Chydenius.

Buy one needle and trei one for FREE!

Only in EAKI, so act now!

*thinks hard - and tries to fake a Swedish Accent*
Sorry to let you down, but I can't do the accent either...

Sorry to let you down, but I can't do the accent either...


Aland. ALAND. ALAND!!!!

Suomolaisi?

Aland. ALAND. ALAND!!!!

Suomolaisi?
Northwest England! Northwest England! Northwest England!
or
Northeast England! Northeast England! Northeast England!

"Suömolaisi"? Jag är inte suomalienen, men bara en oäkta som bor här!

So you're not finn... but I didn't quite follow the rest of the sentence.


PS: Come on, BORO!

*checks Monty Python for an accent*

Wei not trei a holiday in Sveden this year? Telephone-system!

So you're not finn... but I didn't quite follow the rest of the sentence.
What I said was:
"I'm not Finnish, but only a fake who lives here." ;)

I hear Monty did something on Finland. Where'd he do it?

What I said was:
"I'm not Finnish, but only a fake who lives here." ;)

I hear Monty did something on Finland. Where'd he do it?


Monty Python: Finland

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Pony trekking or camping,
Or just watching TV.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
It's the country for me.

You're so near to Russia,
So far from Japan,
Quite a long way from Cairo,
Lots of miles from Vietnam.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I want to be,
Eating breakfast or dinner,
Or snack lunch in the hall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.


You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored,
A poor second to Belgium,
When going abroad.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.

Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I quite want to be,
Your mountains so lofty,
Your treetops so tall.
Finland, Finland, Finland.
Finland has it all.

Finland has it all.

Composer: Michael Palin
Author: Michael Palin
Arranger: John Du Prez
Lead Singer: Michael Palin

Er, you are an american exchanging on the aland islands?

PS: I loved Pajat Pojat ( sp )

Er, you are an american exchanging on the aland islands?
Yup. :p

Hey, that bloody song isn't on the Worthless Monty Python website!

Yup. :p

Hey, that bloody song isn't on the Worthless Monty Python website!


Doesn't it have a warning: don't visit this site? ( the interactive CD had a warning: don't buy this product. )


*googled: Monty Python Finland *

Doesn't it have a warning: don't visit this site? ( the interactive CD had a warning: don't buy this product. )
*googled: Monty Python Finland *
What? Dunno. Anyhow, I found this (http://www.mwscomp.com/sound.html). Seems promising.

But they totally ignored Finland. Disgraceful.

( But then again, I must say that a bit of MP googling gave me the perfect tagline for my attacks on non-proportional election-systems )

Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

What's with he America bashing?
They either have some innane ideology which reqirues them to bash the US, or their only source of information about America is our news media. They don't understand that the information on the news is the exception rather than the rule ... which is why it's news. :)

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice.

Bush didn't cheat to win the election twice. If anything, the dems tried to cheat.

Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Your right about one thing, Great Britain couldn't beat nazi Germany alone. The USSR was doing that.

They either have some innane ideology which reqirues them to bash the US, or their only source of information about America is our news media. They don't understand that the information on the news is the exception rather than the rule ... which is why it's news. :)

Ahhh, I see. So anyone criticising the US is either an idealogical nutter, or can only watch FOX and CNN? Well, that of course covers everybody, and they are of course fools for even attempting to criticise the perfect United States and its government. Because, as we all know, it's perfect...

Ignorance Is Strength!

They A either have some innane ideology which reqirues them to bash the US, or B their only source of information about America is our news media. They don't understand that the information on the news is the exception rather than the rule ... which is why it's news. :)


BOTH at the same time, actually...
But cussing at the Super Sized Version of what you'd like to be is pretty much required by human nature. As far as I'm concerned, it's what the entire Clash of Cultures/War on Terror is all about.

*hides*

Dinnertime! See y'all tomorrow.

They either have some innane ideology which reqirues them to bash the US, or their only source of information about America is our news media. They don't understand that the information on the news is the exception rather than the rule ... which is why it's news. :)

However true....but Washington would be behind me on criticizing it because of the unforgivable flaws and the way the country is being run.

your mortal enemy, huh? what about the marshall plan that saved your sorry asses from communism, standing up to the soviet union, ridding your continent of nazism, the list goes on.

i'm not saying you should be kissing our feet, and i'm not saying you should agree with everything america does, but a little respect would be appreciated.

Were you standing up to the USSR, or was it standing up to you? It can be seen both ways.
And no matter what all the films, games and other WWII-based forms of entertainment say, you did not "save" Europe from Nazism, you just did it in the flashiest way. The USSR had been fighting Germany since 1941, the British and Free French since 1940 and the USA only set foot in Europe in 1944 as part of D-Day.

If you want respect, you must earn it, and so far you have been doing the opposite - demanding it simply because you are the most arrogant country on the planet. Have a little respect for sovereignty and a little thing we call 'borders', often affiliated with the word 'jurisdiction', which you seem to think is just about everywhere for you.
All you have to do to gain respect is to is lie less, cheat less, imprison without trial less, persecute less...is there any point going on?

A little of what I am talking about:
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
http://www.zmag.org/shalomhate.htm

Ahhh, I see. So anyone criticising the US is either an idealogical nutter, or can only watch FOX and CNN? Well, that of course covers everybody, and they are of course fools for even attempting to criticise the perfect United States and its government. Because, as we all know, it's perfect...

Ignorance Is Strength!

He's talking about American-bashing (i.e. "Amerikkka is teh suxors") rather that critising America (i.e "I disagree with Americas war in Iraq for reason X").

Were you standing up to the USSR, or was it standing up to you? It can be seen both ways.
And no matter what all the films, games and other WWII-based forms of entertainment say, you did not "save" Europe from Nazism, you just did it in the flashiest way. The USSR had been fighting Germany since 1941, the British and Free French since 1940 and the USA only set foot in Europe in 1944 as part of D-Day.

If you want respect, you must earn it, and so far you have been doing the opposite - demanding it simply because you are the most arrogant country on the planet. Have a little respect for sovereignty and a little thing we call 'borders', often affiliated with the word 'jurisdiction', which you seem to think is just about everywhere for you.
All you have to do to gain respect is to is lie less, cheat less, imprison without trial less, persecute less...is there any point going on?

A little of what I am talking about:
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
http://www.zmag.org/shalomhate.htm

To be fair, US troops were fighting in North Africa since mid-1942, and aided the war effort in vital ways, what with becoming a huge factory for the allied effort, as well as having combat troops in most fronts aiding British, Commonwealth and other troops.
Though your main point is well-taken. The US does seem to think it won the war all by itself, when it didn't. It was in truth a joint effort between Britain, Russia and the United States. Although the USSR probably could have won anyway.

He's talking about American-bashing (i.e. "Amerikkka is teh suxors") rather that critising America (i.e "I disagree with Americas war in Iraq for reason X").

Perhaps, although I think Eutrusca might extend it to valid criticism as well, especially of the US military.

Why the puppet Gauthier?

Were you standing up to the USSR, or was it standing up to you? It can be seen both ways.


So they kept Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc as a message to us? The troop placements along the Berlin wall was because they were scared of us?


And no matter what all the films, games and other WWII-based forms of entertainment say, you did not "save" Europe from Nazism, you just did it in the flashiest way.

That doesn't make any sense.

The USSR had been fighting Germany since 1941, the British and Free French since 1940 and the USA only set foot in Europe in 1944 as part of D-Day.

So? Americans were involved. Ever hear of the American Eagle squadren?


If you want respect, you must earn it, and so far you have been doing the opposite - demanding it simply because you are the most arrogant country on the planet.

Wow I thought that title belonged to French (Well Parisians ;) ).

Have a little respect for sovereignty and a little thing we call 'borders', often affiliated with the word 'jurisdiction', which you seem to think is just about everywhere for you.

I really doubt that you would change your opinion. Can you even name one major power that has always respected borders?

All you have to do to gain respect is to is lie less, cheat less, imprison without trial less, persecute less...is there any point going on?

Surrree....

A little of what I am talking about:
http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html
http://www.zmag.org/shalomhate.htm

You do love that vitriolic bile don't you? Guilty until proven innocent? Rather easy way to condem people as it excludes you from having to prove the claims.

As said before it is nothing more then foamy at the mouth rantings of a hateful individual. Yes it's a dirty event list but can you name any major nation that hasn't done anything wrong?

The US does seem to think it won the war all by itself, when it didn't. It was in truth a joint effort between Britain, Russia and the United States. Although the USSR probably could have won anyway.

Now now a sweeping generalization? ;)

Ignorant Americans happen to think that. People are overlooking that fact that WWII is slowly becoming ancient history in the US. People arguing about the actions of their great-grandfathers (shudders I am feeling old. At least I am not as old a Eut! :p )

But I have a unique perspective as my relatives fought for Poland, England and the US.

I will also give a comment from a gentleman I met in Scotland. He was Col. Chisholm who comanded the Scottish Comandos. I mentioned some of the revisionism of the US actions and he scoffed saying such people don't know what they are talking about. I can tell you I was happy to have the Yanks here. I knew we were going to survive.

Ahh well that's the fun of historical debates eh? :)

To those who can't stand it when some one critises their country: suck it up, princiness. No country has the right ot not be offended and some criticism is healthy. No-one likes a whiner, and this mesage goes to EVERYONE (even the North Koreans).

I can handle some ciriticism but when every person in the world seems to yell at us if we cough wrong I get a littel pissed. I get very pissed when they are doing or have done worse things than us and yell at us.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Let's break this down.

"Not everybody in America likes Bush." Congratulations. But unfortunately, a lot of America bashers aren't just talking about Bush being thick. We don't like capitalist culture, or an overly insecure society that's taking everybody with it into a downward spiral... take your pick.

"If it wasn't for us, then you wouldn't be here! So respect us!" Hmm, probably. But the same is true vice versa. Nobody can claim that the Americans were the almighty superheroes that pulled Britain back from the brink of defeat, or saved Europe. For a start, Britain hadn't even been invaded, and was doing a pretty good job of defending itself in air and sea. It isn't a black and white matter, and you can't predict the possible future from any point in history, with any amount of hindsight.

Or do you want to talk about the pilgrims of Europe, who basically created your forefathers. Perhaps you should bow down to the French, who helped you defeat Britain to become an independancy. Kneel at Mikhail Gorbachev's feet, for he disbanded the Soviet Union. The world is not "America, and The Rest," with America being the superhero country who saved the world in the past. The world is the world, and a lot of it doesn't like America for a lot more reasons than your president being a twat.

<snip>
So, essentially what you're saying is.....exactly what everybody else, even several Americans, has been saying since about page two or three?

How very insightful.

Simonist']So, essentially what you're saying is.....exactly what everybody else, even several Americans, has been saying since about page two or three?

How very insightful.

I don't read previous pages, I read the statement and add my comments. Whether you want to take my comments along with everybody elses or seperate is up to you, but you were wrong in thinking that I might be adding to any kind of ongoin "conversation."

I don't read previous pages, I read the statement and add my comments. Whether you want to take my comments along with everybody elses or seperate is up to you, but you were wrong in thinking that I might be adding to any kind of ongoin "conversation."
Oh, golly, my bad. How wrong I was to assume that you were here on this forum for the same reason that every single other member is. How completely selfish of me.

Conversation over, I certainly wouldn't want to put you out.

Simonist']Oh, golly, my bad. How wrong I was to assume that you were here on this forum for the same reason that every single other member is. How completely selfish of me.

Conversation over, I certainly wouldn't want to put you out.

It's alright bud, settle down. You made a well-educated guess that turned out to have an answer that lies in an uncommon group of circumstances. I'm not saying you're a bad person for it, so make your life easier and relax about the situation.

It's alright bud, settle down. You made a well-educated guess that turned out to have an answer that lies in an uncommon group of circumstances. I'm not saying you're a bad person for it, so make your life easier and relax about the situation.
For the record, and you'd better learn this fast because lots of people get pissy about it, don't assume gender based off of the name. And please dont' call me "bud", even if I were a guy that'd be annoying as hell. Furthermore, I never assumed you meant I was a bad person, I was actually just mocking you for your apparent overreaction. Geez. Learn to read into it a wee bit less.

I can handle some ciriticism but when every person in the world seems to yell at us if we cough wrong I get a littel pissed. I get very pissed when they are doing or have done worse things than us and yell at us.


OK. you have a point there. Some people WILL jump on everything.

But how about you provide a bit of ammunition on your side then instead of just complaining about naysayers. I open the floor with this golden opportunity:

So.... what major initiatives is America currently undertaking that the world should view as a positive and selfless act for the betterment of all?
Or even in matters of domestic policies?

In other words, what are you most proud of your country for right now?

Simonist']For the record, and you'd better learn this fast because lots of people get pissy about it, don't assume gender based off of the name. And please dont' call me "bud", even if I were a guy that'd be annoying as hell. Furthermore, I never assumed you meant I was a bad person, I was actually just mocking you for your apparent overreaction. Geez. Learn to read into it a wee bit less.

I didn't look at your name. I can't remember ever calling you a man.
I call all my friends bud, and they return the habit. Even the women.
When I said "relax about the situation," I meant "relax about the situation."
My apologies if you thought my first post was full of anger. It wasn't.
My first post, incidentally, was a simple explanation.
If you got pissed because I said that you were wrong, then I apologize. That wasn't my intention.
Relax about this whole thing - it's just a misunderstanding, OK?

http://www.deutschland-bewegung.de/
http://www.schildersmilies.de/noschild/laughoutloud.gif

Best. Website. Ever.

Why the puppet Gauthier?

Puppet? BWAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!

:D

If I have anything to say, this is the Forum Name you'll see it under, not any others. Ask any mod and they can confirm Hitler Cakes or any other nation you are suspicious of is not a puppet of mine. I don't do puppets.

So they kept Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, etc as a message to us? The troop placements along the Berlin wall was because they were scared of us?

No. Those were kept as satellite states. The Berlin Wall had nothing to do with fear of the United States or any Western nation. It was all about keeping the East Germans from fleeing to the West, or did you miss out on your history class?

That doesn't make any sense.

Makes sense to me. Basically Americans are making a big deal out of being late comers to WW2 and thus the freshest players in the game.

So? Americans were involved. Ever hear of the American Eagle squadren?

And was Eagle Squadron anywhere near Europe prior to Pearl Harbor? World War 2 didn't just start on December 7, 1941 despite what you'd like to believe.

Wow I thought that title belonged to French (Well Parisians ;) ).

French-bashing. Somehow I'm not surprised, it's a jingoistic American copout to a challenge of being held accountable.

I really doubt that you would change your opinion. Can you even name one major power that has always respected borders?

The "They Did It First" excuse. Another copout despite America always billing itself as the most democratic and human rights respecting nation in the world the way FOX News always sings "Fair and Balanced" more than Al Bundy sings about scoring 4 touchdowns in a single game.

Surrree....

No answer. No surprise.

You do love that vitriolic bile don't you? Guilty until proven innocent? Rather easy way to condem people as it excludes you from having to prove the claims.

And while you love to dismiss this as mere piss tripe, much like your Beloved Dear Leader Bush it's amazing how it's not too difficult to find actual dirt with an honest effort at research. I take it you don't believe The School of the Americas exists at all do you?

As said before it is nothing more then foamy at the mouth rantings of a hateful individual. Yes it's a dirty event list but can you name any major nation that hasn't done anything wrong?

Can you name any major nation that has done anything wrong while still proclaiming itself to be a shining bastion of all that is just and humane to the entire world constantly?

Puppet? BWAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!

:D

If I have anything to say, this is the Forum Name you'll see it under, not any others. Ask any mod and they can confirm Hitler Cakes or any other nation you are suspicious of is not a puppet of mine. I don't do puppets.


Actually I really don't care. It was just a guess as that person posted your beloved link.


No. Those were kept as satellite states. The Berlin Wall had nothing to do with fear of the United States or any Western nation. It was all about keeping the East Germans from fleeing to the West, or did you miss out on your history class?

You ignored the point.


Makes sense to me. Basically Americans are making a big deal out of being late comers to WW2 and thus the freshest players in the game.

And was Eagle Squadron anywhere near Europe prior to Pearl Harbor? World War 2 didn't just start on December 7, 1941 despite what you'd like to believe.


Speaking of taking history classes. The first squad was formed in 1940.


French-bashing. Somehow I'm not surprised, it's a jingoistic American copout to a challenge of being held accountable.

Ahh your ignorance is showing. Our French workers even bash the Parisians.

Hmmm jingoism. You should talk.


The "They Did It First" excuse.

Actually that is a copout answer. It just shows the greator hypocracy of people like yourself who scream "HOW DARE YOU" when it probably can be shown your country has commited questionable actions.


Another copout despite America always billing itself as the most democratic and human rights respecting nation in the world the way FOX News always sings "Fair and Balanced" more than Al Bundy sings about scoring 4 touchdowns in a single game.

Are you really that ignorant? Heres a newsflash. Not all Americans watch Fox news. I haven't watched in several years.


No answer. No surprise.

Not surprised by your response. As with that other person. No matter the answer you wouldn't belive it.


And while you love to dismiss this as mere piss tripe,

As said again. Some of it's right on and much of it is rather simplistic "piss tripe"

much like your Beloved Dear Leader Bush it's amazing how it's not too difficult to find actual dirt with an honest effort at research.

Not my beloved learder. It you had bothered looking 58 million of us didn't vote for him.

As to research? Even your favorite link the author says he won't do as he doesn't need to.

Again guilty until proven innocent. Rather easy approach that is.

I take it you don't believe The School of the Americas exists at all do you?

:rolleyes: You really belive we are all retards don't you?

Whatever.



Can you name any major nation that has done anything wrong while still proclaiming itself to be a shining bastion of all that is just and humane to the entire world constantly?

Ahh so you agree all major nations have a dirty event list.

Good progress is made.

Actually I really don't care. It was just a guess as that person posted your beloved link.

Nothing says "I Don't Care" about something like dramatically pointing it out. :rolleyes:

You ignored the point.

And what the point? That the United States was so powerful that the fear of it had to be the biggest reason the Berlin Wall was built and the Soviet Union held onto those satellite states?

Speaking of taking history classes. The first squad was formed in 1940.

And you were just making a nice sermon on ignoring the point. Eagle Squad was formed in 1940 but did it see any action in Europe before Pearl Harbor? I believe not.

Ahh your ignorance is showing. Our French workers even bash the Parisians.

Some French bash Parisians, therefore it's acceptable to bash the French as a whole. I guess you'd find it acceptable to use the N word just because blacks use it with each other?

Hmmm jingoism. You should talk.

Can you cite where I've been jingoistic talk or is this just your form of the "I know you are, but what am I?" retort?

Actually that is a copout answer. It just shows the greator hypocracy of people like yourself who scream "HOW DARE YOU" when it probably can be shown your country has commited questionable actions.

There is much humorous irony in that statement. My country does scream "HOW DARE YOU" when it has committed questionable actions, and still does to this day.

Are you really that ignorant? Heres a newsflash. Not all Americans watch Fox news. I haven't watched in several years.

And you try to avoid the overall point of that statement by nitpicking on a specific portion of it. Unlike the United States, none of the other nations that have fucked up severely ever bragged about being the bastion of democracy and freedom to the world on a constant basis.

Not surprised by your response. As with that other person. No matter the answer you wouldn't belive it.

As opposed to someone who insists refuses to believe his country is anything but infallible.

Ahh so you agree all major nations have a dirty event list.

Good progress is made.

Again, you try to avoid the point. The United States so far is the only nation that has taken extensive and continuous efforts to advetise itself as the standard for democracy and freedom while having a huge list of dirty events.

Nothing says "I Don't Care" about something like dramatically pointing it out. :rolleyes:



And what the point? That the United States was so powerful that the fear of it had to be the biggest reason the Berlin Wall was built and the Soviet Union held onto those satellite states?

Ok. If you want to ignore the point then that's ok I guess.


And you were just making a nice sermon on ignoring the point. Eagle Squad was formed in 1940 but did it see any action in Europe before Pearl Harbor? I believe not.

Nope. Squadron 71 was formed in September 1940 and started defensive duties on Feburary 5th 1941.


Some French bash Parisians, therefore it's acceptable to bash the French as a whole. I guess you'd find it acceptable to use the N word just because blacks use it with each other?

Ahh bringing up the word ******. :rolleyes:

Well my hypocrite friend. You try and accuse me of bashing the French (which I have been to the country since we have 2 offices there and have no issues with them) and yet you bash Americans. Go figure.

Can you cite where I've been jingoistic talk or is this just your form of the "I know you are, but what am I?" retort?

Do I really have to list out your anti-american rhetoric and the times you posted your favorite link?


There is much humorous irony in that statement. My country does scream "HOW DARE YOU" when it has committed questionable actions, and still does to this day.

And you try to avoid the overall point of that statement by nitpicking on a specific portion of it. Unlike the United States, none of the other nations that have fucked up severely ever bragged about being the bastion of democracy and freedom to the world on a constant basis.

"Nitpicking" is less of an issue the a generalization about a whole people.

The claim of hypocracy is not invalid.

As opposed to someone who insists refuses to believe his country is anything but infallible.
I dare you to prove I have EVER made that claim.


Again, you try to avoid the point. The United States so far is the only nation that has taken extensive and continuous efforts to advetise itself as the standard for democracy and freedom while having a huge list of dirty events.

And continue to overlook the point. Every major nation has a dirty event list.

Ok. If you want to ignore the point then that's ok I guess.

It's easy to ignore a point that hasn't been made clear.

Ahh bringing up the word ******. :rolleyes:

Well my hypocrite friend. You try and accuse me of bashing the French (which I have been to the country since we have 2 offices there and have no issues with them) and yet you bash Americans. Go figure.

I'm sure that would have been a lot more clearer if you said "Parisian" instead of "French." :rolleyes: But hey, instinctual thoughts right?

Do I really have to list out your anti-american rhetoric and the times you posted your favorite link?

Go ahead and list them. It's only Anti-American to you because they're not complete asskissing at all.

I dare you to prove I have EVER made that claim.

The word "insists" shouldn't be there. You haven't made an actual claim that the United States never makes mistakes, but on the other hand have you ever found anything about it to criticize at all?

[QUOTE[And continue to overlook the point. Every major nation has a dirty event list.[/QUOTE]

And you continue to overlook still. No other major nation with a dirty event list went around bragging about how it was the shiniest, cleanest nation in the world in regards to human rights and democracy.

It's easy to ignore a point that hasn't been made clear.

Whatever.


I'm sure that would have been a lot more clearer if you said "Parisian" instead of "French." :rolleyes: But hey, instinctual thoughts right?

Oh yea. I am american so I must be anti-french. Whatever.


Go ahead and list them. It's only Anti-American to you because they're not complete asskissing at all.

Whatever.


The word "insists" shouldn't be there. You haven't made an actual claim that the United States never makes mistakes, but on the other hand have you ever found anything about it to criticize at all?

Quite a few times. Actually. I lost 2 friends in Rwanda. The only country with any level on honor over that mess is Canada.


And you continue to overlook still. No other major nation with a dirty event list went around bragging about how it was the shiniest, cleanest nation in the world in regards to human rights and democracy.
Whatever.

Whatever.

Whatever.

Whatever.

And all you can do is reply like a valley girl instead of responding in a comprehensible manner. No need to go on then. Hmph.

:rolleyes:

I didn't look at your name. I can't remember ever calling you a man.
I call all my friends bud, and they return the habit. Even the women.
When I said "relax about the situation," I meant "relax about the situation."
My apologies if you thought my first post was full of anger. It wasn't.
My first post, incidentally, was a simple explanation.
If you got pissed because I said that you were wrong, then I apologize. That wasn't my intention.
Relax about this whole thing - it's just a misunderstanding, OK?
[NS]Simonist will always find a way to be offended. She uses it to avoid talking about the issue when her points fail.

And you continue to overlook still. No other major nation with a dirty event list went around bragging about how it was the shiniest, cleanest nation in the world in regards to human rights and democracy.
At its height, the British Empire did exactly that. I also don't see how it matters much that the US claims to be about freedom more than other countries. It's the actions that matter not the words. Just because North Korea doesn't claim to be about freedom and democracy does not make its actions any better.

At its height, the British Empire did exactly that. I also don't see how it matters much that the US claims to be about freedom more than other countries. It's the actions that matter not the words. Just because North Korea doesn't claim to be about freedom and democracy does not make its actions any better.

I could see that with the British Empire, White Man's Burden and all. Of course it matters that the US claims to be about freedom more than other countries precisely because actions matter more than words. When the rest of the world hears Freedom and Democracy sound bites over and over yet news of incidents in the Abu Ghraib scale of cruelty continue to emerge, it disillusions many people to the ideals and principles of Freedom and Democracy that keep getting spouted.

"What's With The America Bashing?"

Simple answer: People just don't like you. Get over it!

That's OK. We don't like you either. Perhaps all of you should "Get over it!" too.

That's OK. We don't like you either. Perhaps all of you should "Get over it!" too.
I think everyone on both sides sorta got over it some time ago.

Until crackpots from both sides started attacking each other, and now we have this whole mess again. :)

How was the USSR as great a threat as Nazi Germany? Oh yeah, they're commies and things. Now I remember.

Um, so you are saying life under Stalin would have been OK for you? Really?

I think everyone on both sides sorta got over it some time ago.

Until crackpots from both sides started attacking each other, and now we have this whole mess again. :)

I do wish we would (get over it, I mean) - I was responding to the tone of this post than the content. I am deeply disturbed by the path that America is taking right now. I see the government headed up by people bent on enriching themselves and their friends, and following ideologies that do not reflect those of many Americans. For example, it's OK for us to invade a soveriegn country that did not attack us first, and it's OK for thousands to die as a result, but we have to prohibit abortion and protect stem cells? (One tiny example of what I mean).

Oh great. So now the Allies only consisted of America and UK?

Come on.

There was Australia, New Zealand, Malta, a bunch of other colonies.

Remember that you guys were LATE!

I hate on governments of countries - not the countries themself.

I have no real problem with American's - although some seem to have a "we're better than you" attitude, they are the minority.
For the most part, I just don't give a shit. But I'll like America a lot more when there is finally a President who doesn't think (s)he is the ruler of the world.
You might be a leading "super power" but throwing that weight around will make people hate you.

Oh great. So now the Allies only consisted of America and UK?

Come on.

There was Australia, New Zealand, Malta, a bunch of other colonies.

Remember that you guys were LATE!

And that was after some bunch of Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour into the ground.

Yes, our president is an idiot who would conquer the entire world given the chance, but America bashing in general is really starting to make me mad. For one, Bush does not represent us, as he cheated to win the election twice. Also, check his approval rating. 30%. That's the lowest since Nixon. And, more, most of the Europeans posting negative things about us wouldn't even be here if we didn't exist. Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

Tony Blair cheated to win the election here (Britain). Americans don't bash us for it. Enough said.

(he cheated in several ways, one of which being postal votes where a person had to send their vote to their MP - who, if he was a Labour MP, was most likely instructed to rip it up if it wasn't for Labour (Tony Blair's party))

And that was after some bunch of Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour into the ground.
And all but three ships were able to be used again. Don't forget that all of the aircraft carriers had been on an exercise, conveniently just when the Japanese attacked.

And all but three ships were able to be used again. Don't forget that all of the aircraft carriers had been on an exercise, conveniently just when the Japanese attacked.

Convienently? No, orders had been sent to all outposts and bases warning of an attack, and the carriers had sailed some time before. Tell me, if it was a conspiracy, why did the Americans leave the vessels used to resupply the Carriers at Pearl Harbour to be sunk? Doesn't make much sense to send the Carriers away but let their supply ships, without which they're helpless, be sunk, does it?

Great Britian would not have beaten the Nazis alone. I hate our government, but bashing America is really ungrateful and ignoring the facts.

This is true. If it wasn't for the Russians we'd have been fucked...

We've always slaged on Americans, now we just have a reason.

We've always slaged on Americans, now we just have a reason.

it's "slagged off" :P

[NS]Simonist will always find a way to be offended. She uses it to avoid talking about the issue when her points fail.
And what points of mine exactly "failed" there, Half-Hidden? All I did was point out that the poster had essentially summed up the entire thread. Don't think I was exactly wrong on that, last time I checked.... :rolleyes:

Nice try though.

And all you can do is reply like a valley girl instead of responding in a comprehensible manner. No need to go on then. Hmph.

:rolleyes:

Valley talk is so 1980s.

Some people know when to get off the nonsense argument merry-go-round.

Enjoy your ride.

I could see that with the British Empire, White Man's Burden and all. Of course it matters that the US claims to be about freedom more than other countries precisely because actions matter more than words. When the rest of the world hears Freedom and Democracy sound bites over and over yet news of incidents in the Abu Ghraib scale of cruelty continue to emerge, it disillusions many people to the ideals and principles of Freedom and Democracy that keep getting spouted.

And the merry-go-round ride continues.....

Oh great. So now the Allies only consisted of America and UK?

Come on.

There was Australia, New Zealand, Malta, a bunch of other colonies.

Remember that you guys were LATE!

*sigh* Yes the Americans sat around saying "Wait for it! WAIT FOR IT!" OK NOW WE ARE INVOLVED.

I think this is the showed up late and claimed all the glory argument.

This is true. If it wasn't for the Russians we'd have been fucked...

Guess who help the Russians in the early part of the Invasion?

Simonist']And what points of mine exactly "failed" there, Half-Hidden? All I did was point out that the poster had essentially summed up the entire thread. Don't think I was exactly wrong on that, last time I checked.... :rolleyes:

Nice try though.

Not to worry. Many of us like an angry woman! If only you had red hair! :p

Not to worry. Many of us like an angry woman! If only you had red hair! :p
I used to. Too many guys were like "oooh, I like girls with red hair, ooooh" and it creeped me out. Now I just constantly keep it more to the brown-tone because it looks better on me.

Besides, I think a lot of people on here misconstrue anger with....well, pretty much every other emotion. Very rarely do I get angry on the forums. Usually when I do, I don't even bother posting about it. It's therefore incredibly nonsensical for somebody to say "She gets angry when she can't back up her point", because I don't post in anger.

Eh, whatever.....Half-Hidden had a shit point to begin with, and is a coward in my eyes for attacking somebody with which he has no beef.

And the merry-go-round ride continues.....

So much for all your holier-than-thou talk of "knowing when to get off the ride":

Some people know when to get off the nonsense argument merry-go-round.

Enjoy your ride.

You're getting off the ride all right. :gundge:

it's "slagged off" :P
Not in Australia, mate! :p

America is the greatest country in the world, thats why millions immigrate from other countries to come here, when they can stay there for all i care,

oh yeah, we will kick every other countries ass in a war, intellectually, economically, or militarilly

Oh joy! another troll. :rolleyes:

America is the greatest country in the world, thats why millions immigrate from other countries to come here, when they can stay there for all i care,

oh yeah, we will kick every other countries ass in a war, intellectually, economically, or militarilly

Hahahahaha America (as a nation) beating almost any other intellectually is laughable, and you lost so badly in Vietnam that you ran back with your tail between your legs.

And China beats the crap out of you economically too.

America is the greatest country in the world, thats why millions immigrate from other countries to come here, when they can stay there for all i care,

oh yeah, we will kick every other countries ass in a war, intellectually, economically, or militarilly

Hey look, it's UN abassadorship.

Hahahahaha America (as a nation) beating almost any other intellectually is laughable, and you lost so badly in Vietnam that you ran back with your tail between your legs.

And China beats the crap out of you economically too.

Yes, all Americans are stupid. I guess that means Mensa (http://www.us.mensa.org) has no American members.

Vietnam was a clusterfu*k. Nobody will deny that and if they do.. well, I'm sorry but they are idiots.

Go ahead and compare Vietnam to Iraq. Of course with vietnam having: US dead: 58,226
US wounded: 153,303
Bailed out of area.
To Iraq's
2,321 total deaths
17,269 combat wounded
Removed dictator in power, Established free elections.


Of course. China beats the US economically too..

China GDP: 8.182 Tril
GDP Per Capita : $6,300
Unemployment 4.2% in Urban - 20% rural
Population 1,313,973,713
USA GDP $12.41 trillion
GDP Per Capita $42,000
Unemployment 5.1%

Yes, China sure is beating us up..
Population 298,444,215

It's UN abassadorship. Don't even reply to it, you're just giving him more attention to wank himself on.

Yes, all Americans are stupid. I guess that means Mensa (http://www.us.mensa.org) has no American members.

That's not what I said, could you honestly say that the USA is the most enlightened place on the planet?

Vietnam was a clusterfu*k. Nobody will deny that and if they do.. well, I'm sorry but they are idiots.

Go ahead and compare Vietnam to Iraq. Of course with vietnam having: US dead: 58,226
US wounded: 153,303
Bailed out of area.
To Iraq's
2,321 total deaths
17,269 combat wounded
Removed dictator in power, Established free elections.

Yeah, and look at what good that's done Iraq. Now there's a civil war and a completely ineffective government. Most Iraqis probably want Saddam back, I know that I would.

Also, compare this period to the period when there were "Advisors" only in Vietnam. It's quite similar.

Of course. China beats the US economically too..

China GDP: 8.182 Tril
GDP Per Capita : $6,300
Unemployment 4.2% in Urban - 20% rural
Population 1,313,973,713
USA GDP $12.41 trillion
GDP Per Capita $42,000
Unemployment 5.1%

Yes, China sure is beating us up..
Population 298,444,215

Look at the growth of both economies, that tells more than how much you earn at the moment.

Yeah, and look at what good that's done Iraq. Now there's a civil war and a completely ineffective government. Most Iraqis probably want Saddam back, I know that I would.




Look at the growth of both economies, that tells more than how much you earn at the moment.

Funny how the main consumers of Chinese products are Americans.

Funny how the main consumers of Chinese products are Americans.

No accident really when American corporations (namely Wal-Mart) push for manufacturing jobs to be outsourced to China in order to reduce labor costs (I wonder how...) and pressure potential sellers into doing so.

No accident really when American corporations (namely Wal-Mart) push for manufacturing jobs to be outsourced to China in order to reduce labor costs (I wonder how...) and pressure potential sellers into doing so.

Sigh

Funny how the main consumers of Chinese products are Americans.

And this means what?

When was the last time you had an option other then "Made In China"

Is that because we like it or it's simply the only option made available?