NationStates Jolt Archive

But how do you know you really need it?
It could just be a weird human habit.

Try not breathing for a while. You will crave it. Now, isn't it odd that if people don't recieve it near constantly they cease to live? Needs are things required to live (for humans at least). Air is one of them.

Well, reality is always perceptible.

If you exist and know other things exist, your perception is correct. Perception does differ (example: I believe Bush is a moron, but some think he should be a king.) But as humans, that is normal.

That is circular logic, Pythogria.

You are saying that reality exists because we perceive it, and that we perceive because reality exists.

That is circular logic, Pythogria.

You are saying that reality exists because we perceive it, and that we perceive because reality exists.

I only say it because both are true.

Now, prove reality doesn't exist. I'll bet you can't.

I only say it because both are true.

You have not proven them to be true though. You have assumed the proof of both.

Now, prove reality doesn't exist. I'll bet you can't.

I cannot prove that reality does or doesn't exist. However, because I exist, I must assume reality also exists. But also because of this assumption, all I can trust is my own existence, I may be misinterpreting all that is around me.

Therefore all I can know is what is inside of me.

You have not proven them to be true though. You have assumed the proof of both.



I cannot prove that reality does or doesn't exist. However, because I exist, I must assume reality also exists. But also because of this assumption, all I can trust is my own existence, I may be misinterpreting all that is around me.

Therefore all I can know is what is inside of me.

1st. My proof is that you can percieve me posting here. There.

2nd. Misinterpretation is impossible. We interpret based on our senses being percieved by our brain. All brains are different. Thus, misinterpretation is impossible.

1st. My proof is that you can percieve me posting here. There.

You must prove perception to be true.

2nd. Misinterpretation is impossible. We interpret based on our senses being percieved by our brain. All brains are different. Thus, misinterpretation is impossible.

How do you account for the geocentric model of the solar system?

1st. It's happening, is it not?

2nd. Due to the information at the time, it was logical to believe that. However, when new informatio nwas found, the fact changed. You have to run on what's available.

1st. My proof is that you can percieve me posting here. There.

2nd. Misinterpretation is impossible. We interpret based on our senses being percieved by our brain. All brains are different. Thus, misinterpretation is impossible.

Are you for real?

/bad joke


How does he perceive you are posting here? Because he can read your words? What if he was blind? Then your proof is shot to hell on that instance. Or what if he perceives that you are posting, but in reality, its your younger brother? Or if he was hallucinating? Suffering from black outs or time lost. His perception of you posting could be forgotten...thus in his mind, in his reality....this whole conversation never existed and is not real.

BTW- Are you getting paid for the number of times you type the word proof or prove?

Are you for real?

/bad joke


How does he perceive you are posting here? Because he can read your words? What if he was blind? Then your proof is shot to hell on that instance. Or what if he perceives that you are posting, but in reality, its your younger brother? Or if he was hallucinating? Suffering from black outs or time lost. His perception of you posting could be forgotten...thus in his mind, in his reality....this whole conversation never existed and is not real.

BTW- Are you getting paid for the number of times you type the word proof or prove?

OK, fine, I'm defeated.
Why would someone disagree with REALITY?
EDIT: Oh, and I'm only defeated in this one regard. The "reality" thing. You still are crushed on all other fronts.

And no, I'm not getting paid. It's essential to any debate to provide proof. They haven't. I ask, and I get none.

1st. It's happening, is it not?

I don't know. Prove to me that it isn't a dream. Prove that it isn't the random firing of synapses in my subconscious that are confusing the hell out of my brain.

2nd. Due to the information at the time, it was logical to believe that. However, when new informatio nwas found, the fact changed. You have to run on what's available.

That doesn't mean that the perception did not lead them to faulty assumptions.

OK, fine, I'm defeated.

And no, I'm not getting paid. It's essential to any debate to provide proof. They haven't. I ask, and I get none.

Have we provided sufficient prove to the notion that one cannot prove perception to be true?

that which remains when there is no more sound is the sound of a dog getting fucked

Prove it.

Have we provided sufficient prove to the notion that one cannot prove perception to be true?

No. Most perceptions are correct. A minority aren't.

OK, fine, I'm defeated.
Why would someone disagree with REALITY?
EDIT: Oh, and I'm only defeated in this one regard. The "reality" thing. You still are crushed on all other fronts.

And no, I'm not getting paid. It's essential to any debate to provide proof. They haven't. I ask, and I get none.


What other fronts would that be? I chimed in only recently.

Why would someone disagree with REALITY?

One cannot disagree with reality, one must question our perception of it though.

Prove it.

:D

What other fronts would that be? I chimed in only recently.

That concidinces are hidden communications, that I am a UNA puppet, etc.

No. Most perceptions are correct. A minority aren't.

You can no more prove that than you can prove reality.

You can no more prove that than you can prove reality.

When I see a road, I know a road is there. When I smell pie, I know pie is there. When I touch a wall, I know it is there. When I taste steamed broccoli, I now it is there. How can you argue with that?

Sister Peech, TG

When I see a road, I know a road is there. When I smell pie, I know pie is there. When I touch a wall, I know it is there. When I taste steamed broccoli, I now it is there. How can you argue with that?

You assume, you don't know.

In a dream, I assume that I am falling, I don't know.

When I see a road, I know a road is there. When I smell pie, I know pie is there. When I touch a wall, I know it is there. When I taste steamed broccoli, I now it is there. How can you argue with that?
But how do you know they really are there?
It could just be your faulty perception.
Now show us some real proof.

But how do you know they really are there?
It could just be your faulty perception.
Now show us some real proof.

Gah! Fine! I cave in! I am defeated on thge "Reality"front. OK? Good. Your first victory.

Now support your puppet argument, Mustapha.

Gah! Fine! I cave in! I am defeated on thge "Reality"front. OK? Good. Your first victory.

Now support your puppet argument, Mustapha.


Hey, I was the one who defeated you on the reality front. Give credit where credit is due.


*Tg VO

When I see a road, I know a road is there. When I smell pie, I know pie is there. When I touch a wall, I know it is there. When I taste steamed broccoli, I now it is there. How can you argue with that?


I have a candle that smells exactly like apple pie. If you smelled it, you might think I had just baked one, but alas I only lit my candle.

They make tofu dishes that taste and feel like broccoli, bet I could fool you on that one easy enough.

I have a candle that smells exactly like apple pie. If you smelled it, you might think I had just baked one, but alas I only lit my candle.

They make tofu dishes that taste and feel like broccoli, bet I could fool you on that one easy enough.
I SAID I WAS DEFEATED!
Does ANYONE listen to instructions around here?
Now, any other NON-REALITY EXISTANT OR NOT EXISTANT topics to argue about?

I SAID I WAS DEFEATED!
Does ANYONE listen to instructions around here?
Now, any other NON-REALITY EXISTANT OR NOT EXISTANT topics to argue about?

There are multitudes of topics to argue about. Pick something besides the puppet thing...its old and boring.

I SAID I WAS DEFEATED!
Does ANYONE listen to instructions around here?
Now, any other NON-REALITY EXISTANT OR NOT EXISTANT topics to argue about?

How do you know you were defeated?

How do you know you were defeated?

Because it happened. Now leave that behind. Anyway, onward and upward! Anything else?

Because it happened. Now leave that behind. Anyway, onward and upward! Anything else?

The way I see it, I think you just won a battle with yourself.

A lot like that Risk game earlier.

Don't give up. And don't go either onward or upward. You're nearly there.

How do you account for the geocentric model of the solar system?

That's false: because F=Ma.

That's false: because F=Ma.

I got you there, he just said that we cannot misinterpret reality.

The way I see it, I think you just won a battle with yourself.

A lot like that Risk game earlier.

Oh, I saw that whited text. That was with some people who are my friends and I believe do not want thei identities plastered on the Internet.

I got you there, he just said that we cannot misinterpret reality.

Yes. Reading back I see that - well I see what he said about misinterpreting things being impossible: I disagree on that score.

Nevertheless, F=Ma, is still the ultimate rebutall to the geocentric model. Whether or not that can ever be 'proved' to the satisfaction of philosophers is another thing.

I keep reading Pythogria as "Pythagorean Theorem".

I do that with a lot of Nation names.....they sound different in my head.

I keep reading Pythogria as "Pythagorean Theorem".

I do that with a lot of Nation names.....they sound different in my head.
Maybe you should make friends with mustapha. Everything sounds 'different' in his head too. :D

Maybe you should make friends with mustapha. Everything sounds 'different' in his head too. :D

I think he's on to something.


Mustapha.....now I'm thinking about Mufasa in Lion King.

Don't give up. And don't go either onward or upward. You're nearly there.
but you never really get there you just get to a new nowhere

Oh, I saw that whited text. That was with some people who are my friends and I believe do not want thei identities plastered on the Internet.

I don't blame them.

I think he's on to something.


Mustapha.....now I'm thinking about Mufasa in Lion King.

dammit that's how you spell mufasa? i was thinking that was the whole point of his name, to be mufasa... guess not.

either that or Mr. Mistoffelees.

dammit that's how you spell mufasa? i was thinking that was the whole point of his name, to be mufasa... guess not.

either that or Mr. Mistoffelees.
read whatever meaning you want into it there are no masters here

What did that just mean?

who does not know that the solar fires are excited at the rising of the dog star Sirius in august--undoubtely dogs are most likely to be rabid during this entire cycle

who does not know that the solar fires are excited at the rising of the dog star Sirius in august--undoubtely dogs are most likely to be rabid during this entire cycle

And how can you prove that? That does sound interesting.

damnit....i'd better go put on some pants

No... wait... just a few more minutes... ;)

And how can you prove that? That does sound interesting.
you must become more aware of the world around you by escaping all your pre conditioned and fake view of reality

I read through about six pages of this before it all started blurring together. Peech's advice about the blindfold though...THAT I think I just might use. Seems like it couldn't really hurt, at least.

But everything else just made me feel dumb. Thanks guys. Now I've got writer's block again. :(

you must become more aware of the world around you by escaping all your pre conditioned and fake view of reality

I percieve reality pretty much the same way as all sane humans. It's worked for a good while, so I'm not planning to become a conspiracy buff. Now prove it.

I read through about six pages of this before it all started blurring together. Peech's advice about the blindfold though...THAT I think I just might use. Seems like it couldn't really hurt, at least.

But everything else just made me feel dumb. Thanks guys. Now I've got writer's block again. :(
your not dumb--your mind is just busy embracing the Universe and has temporarily escaped the bondage of language

I percieve reality pretty much the same way as all sane humans. It's worked for a good while, so I'm not planning to become a conspiracy buff. Now prove it.
Ill prove it if you stop thinking--deal?

your not dumb--your mind is just busy embracing the Universe and has temporarily escaped the bondage of language

Actually, no, he's attempting to understand incoherent, illogical arguments which you proposed, which is impossible, as it is illogical.

Ill prove it if you stop thinking--deal?

No, as thinking expands to all skill, rationality, logic, and personality. Nobody, myself included, will give that up.

In all seriousness, why would you want that anyway?

Actually, no, he's attempting to understand incoherent, illogical arguments which you proposed, which is impossible, as it is illogical.
Logic is vastly overrated

No, as thinking expands to all skill, rationality, logic, and personality. Nobody, myself included, will give that up.

In all seriousness, why would you want that anyway?
because logic prevents you from seeing that which is essential

Logic is vastly overrated

How so? Sanity is overrated? I have talked to those with schitznophria-- and they say the kind of "insanity" they experienced was not freedom. It was their worst fears being thrown at them again and again. Absolute horror. A nightmare which you can't climb out of.

because logic prevents you from seeing that which is essential

How is insanity essential?

How so? Sanity is overrated? I have talked to those with schitznophria-- and they say the kind of "insanity" they experienced was not freedom. It was their worst fears being thrown at them again and again. Absolute horror. A nightmare which you can't climb out of.
must be hell for them

How is insanity essential?
the opposite of logic isnt insanity

but you never really get there you just get to a new nowhere
You're there already.


You've always been there.

the opposite of logic isnt insanity

It is. Without rationality means chaos, the basis of insanity.

must be hell for them

Yes, a virtual one. Thank God for medication.

You're there already.


You've always been there.
you must be there too then to recognize a fellow travellor:p

Yes, a virtual one. Thank God for medication.
thank God for our God given drugs

It is. Without rationality means chaos, the basis of insanity.
there is an Order within chaos

there is an Order within chaos

That's contradictory. Chaos is the lack of order. Therefore, order cannot take place in chaos.

thank God for our God given drugs

Well, I think people take a bit too many, but sometimes they're needed.

Ummm WTF? :confused:

That's contradictory. Chaos is the lack of order. Therefore, order cannot take place in chaos.
Linear thinking'll get you somewhere, but only one somewhere out of a grand total of one potential somewheres. Chaos and order are ideals, not states of being.

Ummm WTF? :confused:
phyth is trying to impose logic on reality again

Linear thinking'll get you somewhere, but only one somewhere out of a grand total of one potential somewheres. Chaos and order are ideals, not states of being.

The definition of "Chaos" in English, according to Webster's, is the lack of order. The belief chaos should riegn is anarchism.

Linear thinking'll get you somewhere, but only one somewhere out of a grand total of one potential somewheres. Chaos and order are ideals, not states of being.
there concepts the primitive mind clings to for an unreal sense of security

phyth is trying to impose logic on reality again

Which is correct. Really, by your standards (without logic), that means you would believe it if I said I was a goldfish right now.

there concepts the primitive mind clings to for an unreal sense of security

No. They are English definitions of words.

The definition of "Chaos" in English, according to Webster's, is the lack of order. The belief chaos should riegn is anarchism.
:D :D :D oh a dictionary

how QUaint:D :D

btw thats not the definition of anarchism--Webster is a Neocon spinner of reality:mad:

I think that when so many things are uncertain, logic is a key tool in understanding. Logic = reason, by definition.
There's no point in challenging an idea on the basis that it was what you have grown up with, rather than how reasonable it seems.

:D :D :D oh a dictionary

how QUaint:D :D

btw thats not the definition of anarchism--Webster is a Neocon spinner of reality:mad:
So, what dictionary do you use? Or are all dictionaries part of a greater Neo-con movement to take over the world?

:D :D :D oh a dictionary

how QUaint:D :D

btw thats not the definition of anarchism--Webster is a Neocon spinner of reality:mad:

Oh, and what d oyou use to define words, O Illogical One?

So, what dictionary do you use? Or are all dictionaries part of a greater Neo-con movement to take over the world?
dictionarys are one of the many tools neocons use to altar reality in their hideous image

:D :D :D oh a dictionary

how QUaint:D :D

btw thats not the definition of anarchism--Webster is a Neocon spinner of reality:mad:

Oh brother. Now I've heard everything.

Oh, and what d oyou use to define words, O Illogical One?
I dont IMPOSE meanings on words much less the perverted definitions that Webster uses

dictionarys are one of the many tools neocons use to altar reality in their hideous image

That's it! Some one call the guys in the white jackets. This guy is nuts.

Not to mention illogical and has no idea what the real world is like apparently.

I dont IMPOSE meanings on words much less the perverted definitions that Webster uses

You have to know what the words mean before you can pervert them. Heck, you're already perverted :D

definition = limitation. With every word you utter, you diminish potential.

definition = limitation. With every word you utter, you diminish potential.

Lets all stop speaking then :D

That's it! Some one call the guys in the white jackets. This guy is nuts.

Not to mention illogical and has no idea what the real world is like apparently.

Yep, it's gone to far. I'm abandoning this thread.

I dont IMPOSE meanings on words much less the perverted definitions that Webster uses

By constructing a sentence out of words, you impose definitions on them to communicate. I hope you realise the irony of it.

Yep, it's gone to far. I'm abandoning this thread.
but its YOUR thread

I guess you sense your impending defeat?

By constructing a sentence out of words, you impose definitions on them to communicate. I hope you realise the irony of it.
its the only way to communicate with people addicted to thoughts of limitation:(

but its YOUR thread

I guess you sense your impending defeat?

SO full of yourself I see.

He's abandoning this thread because your nuts. I'm surprised it took him this long to do so. I noticed from the start that your nuts, illogical and an idiot.

but its YOUR thread

I guess you sense your impending defeat?

No, it's just that you qualify as Ferrous Cranus. Impossible to defeat because of your illogical reasoning systems and irrationality.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm

SO full of yourself I see.

He's abandoning this thread because your nuts. I'm surprised it took him this long to do so. I noticed from the start that your nuts, illogical and an idiot.

Well, I like to try and impose reason, but in some places it is impossible. At the beginning it was fun. But now... I don't think so.

There's an Oompa-Loompa out there with a song just for you, Corneliu. And you Pythogria.

Well, I like to try and impose reason, but in some places it is impossible. At the beginning it was fun. But now... I don't think so.

Reason is lost on those that do not wish to see reason. They will believe whatever they want, no matter how illogical it is and there is nothing that a reasonable person can do about it.

Why choose irrationality over logic?

Why choose irrationality over logic?

Because they are insane :D

Reason is lost on those that do not wish to see reason. They will believe whatever they want, no matter how illogical it is and there is nothing that a reasonable person can do about it.

I guess you're right.

Reason is lost on those that do not wish to see reason. They will believe whatever they want, no matter how illogical it is and there is nothing that a reasonable person can do about it.
Project much?

No, it's just that you qualify as Ferrous Cranus. Impossible to defeat because of your illogical reasoning systems and irrationality.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
that link is jeenyus. be-smegging-eautiful.

that link is jeenyus. be-smegging-eautiful.

Lol. thanks!

Oh look, here come some of the little bastards now. And they're singing...
Oompa Loompa doompa dee doo,
I have a perfect puzzle for you -
Oompa Loompa doompa da dee,
If you are wise you'll listen to me!

What do you think with a buttoned-down mind?
Certainty of the linear kind.
Like a Tralfamadorian I'll watch you with glee,
Every time you go poop or pee.

You'll get no...
You'll get no...
You'll get no more bog roll!

Dobbie should punish himself for speaking ill of... oh wait, that's just for his masters. Carry on then.

This is the most amazing thread ever. It immediately reminded me of this video (http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2413)

Cool video!

*eats a wonka bar*

SO full of yourself I see.

He's abandoning this thread because your nuts. I'm surprised it took him this long to do so. I noticed from the start that your nuts, illogical and an idiot.
but its ok for him to gloat when he imagines he defeats me

Well, I like to try and impose reason, but in some places it is impossible. At the beginning it was fun. But now... I don't think so.
because you realize you cant contain reality in little preconceived boxes but this should make you happy not sad

How old are you kid?

but its ok for him to gloat when he imagines he defeats me

It was a thorough defeat too. Your irrational arguements where your undoing. Not to mention your inability to provide proof when called on to do so didn't help your case either.

How old are you kid?

That's the million dollar question.

This guy is worse than I am.

It was a thorough defeat too. Your irrational arguements where your undoing. Not to mention your inability to provide proof when called on to do so didn't help your case either.
How ironic. Coming from you. :D

How ironic. Coming from you. :D

yea i know. At least though I have some basis of facts in my arguements. He doesn't even have that.

the only thing a fact can prove is itself ot doesnt prove the argument

the only thing a fact can prove is itself ot doesnt prove the argument

Now can we have the proper english please?

we had to carry Pythogoria out of this thread now dont you start questioning the nature of what is--I feel somewhat bad about it now being its his thread and all--Im gonna evacuate it myself so he can have it back

we had to carry Pythogoria out of this thread now dont you start questioning the nature of what is--

All I ask was for the proper english so that I can respond to it. Jeez! Oh and no one had to carry Pythogoria out of this thread. He got himself out of this thread because of your illogical responses that have no basis of facts to it.

I hate to say this, but your even worse than MKULTRA was.

I feel somewhat bad about it now being its his thread and all--Im gonna evacuate it myself so he can have it back

I accept your surrender.

Now can we have the proper english please?
Seriously, I can't understand every single sentence he wrote.

Seriously, I can't understand every single sentence he wrote.

He's been like this since I met him. He doesn't like it when facts get in the way of his illogical mind.

I hate to say this, but your even worse than MKULTRA was.Who is MKULTRA btw?

Well, thank you, Mustapha, for your surrender.

You have seen logic.

Who is MKULTRA btw?

An all-around political hack who always took an extreme leftist view.

One thing about him though that I did admire was that he had a sense of humor and recognized sarcasm. He and my sister actually got along quite well with all of their jabs they thrown at one another.

He bashed everything.

He's been like this since I met him. He doesn't like it when facts get in the way of his illogical mind.
Ok... can you tell us somethinhg we don't know yet...

Additionally, it seems that coherent English gets in the way of his mad ramblings. :D

Ok... can you tell us somethinhg we don't know yet...

Additionally, it seems that coherent English gets in the way of his mad ramblings. :D

I don't know. I think he's a left wing troll who is a Howard Dean wanna be.

*does the dean scream* :D

Well, thank you, Mustapha, for your surrender.

You have seen logic.
I Yield Not--I Fight

An all-around political hack who always took an extreme leftist view.

One thing about him though that I did admire was that he had a sense of humor and recognized sarcasm. He and my sister actually got along quite well with all of their jabs they thrown at one another.

He bashed everything.
is your sister The South Islands?

Mustaphamond516's arguement contradicts itself; If 'everything should be questioned', he should question that 'everything should be questioned' as well.
Questioning should be done on a basis of logic (and that's a 'pre-concieved notion' - but just try to find some reason why irrationality is better).

is your sister The South Islands?

No!

Now can we have the proper english please?Why? He managed to spell "argument" right while you didn't...

I don't know. I think he's a left wing troll who is a Howard Dean wanna be.
Either way, he's giving us lefties a bad name. (This doesn't include you since you're a righty from what I've seen; but, if he was a righty, he'd be making the rest look like a pack of raving lunatics.)

Why? He managed to spell "argument" right while you didn't...
Wow, one whole word... :rolleyes:

Either way, he's giving us lefties a bad name. (This doesn't include you since you're a righty from what I've seen; but, if he was a righty, he'd be making the rest look like a pack of raving lunatics.)

This guy makes a leftist look like a conservative and I did not think that was possible.

This guy makes a leftist look like a conservative and I did not think that was possible.
Well... that too.

Mustaphamond516's arguement contradicts itself; If 'everything should be questioned', he should question that 'everything should be questioned' as well.
Questioning should be done on a basis of logic (and that's a 'pre-concieved notion' - but just try to find some reason why irrationality is better).Uh... why would you want to prove the superiority of irrationality with something as rational and inferior as a reason, which presumably would be based in some sound reasoning? Maybe that's a plus point for irrationality.

Uh... why would you want to prove the superiority of irrationality with something as rational and inferior as a reason, which presumably would be based in some sound reasoning? Maybe that's a plus point for irrationality.

It seemed that Mustapha was suggesting that logic was a load of bull because it was a 'pre-concieved notion', and I was challening anyone to find a reason why irrationality was better than reason. It shows that irrationality cannot be proved better than reason by definition - unless there is no reason and they just want to do everything without reason, like standing on a tortoise and yelping the national anthem...

A life in which everything is questioned is questionable

It seemed that Mustapha was suggesting that logic was a load of bull because it was a 'pre-concieved notion', and I was challening anyone to find a reason why irrationality was better than reason. It shows that irrationality cannot be proved better than reason by definition - unless there is no reason and they just want to do everything without reason, like standing on a tortoise and yelping the national anthem...Oh, hush with your logic. Wait, what was that about the tortoise?.. OMG! *runs outside to find a tortoise*

The whole format of the responses really reminds me of someone... and I'm trying to remember which one it was... the subject matter is different, but the 'style' (ahem) is so familiar...?

VoteEarly (or whatever it was called), maybe?

Mustaphamond516's arguement contradicts itself; If 'everything should be questioned', he should question that 'everything should be questioned' as well.
Questioning should be done on a basis of logic (and that's a 'pre-concieved notion' - but just try to find some reason why irrationality is better).

No, he has only said that you should question what you percieve to be reality. He believes that your perceptions have been conditioned to accept lies as truth, and reject truth as "insanity".

Therefore the only thing one should not question is what one knows inside themself.

No, he has only said that you should question what you percieve to be reality. He believes that your perceptions have been conditioned to accept lies as truth, and reject truth as "insanity".

Therefore the only thing one should not question is what one knows inside themself.

What's the point in questioning if you'll never get an answer? If you question the reality around you, any answers you get will be questioned agian - making the whole process futile.

Having said that, I think this is the point where there are only opinions as oppose to observation. So we may have to agree to disagree.

Mustaphamond516's arguement contradicts itself; If 'everything should be questioned', he should question that 'everything should be questioned' as well.
Questioning should be done on a basis of logic (and that's a 'pre-concieved notion' - but just try to find some reason why irrationality is better).
because there are truths and realities that go way beyond logic so why just limit yourself to one way of perceiving

No!
gimme a hint

gimme a hint

You never met her.

No, he has only said that you should question what you percieve to be reality. He believes that your perceptions have been conditioned to accept lies as truth, and reject truth as "insanity".

Therefore the only thing one should not question is what one knows inside themself.
thats the organic unconditioned truth and logic has nothing to do with it

What's the point in questioning if you'll never get an answer? If you question the reality around you, any answers you get will be questioned agian - making the whole process futile.

Having said that, I think this is the point where there are only opinions as oppose to observation. So we may have to agree to disagree.
not all observations are explainable thru logic or at least not logic as you know it

You never met her.
oh yeah

not all observations are explainable thru logic or at least not logic as you know it

What can you explain without logic? Without logic there is only unfounded guesswork, which isn't a definitive answer.

Wow,it sounds MustaphaMond has been on www.theforbiddenknowledge.com way too much,or he's just start raving mad.

Or mabye he is right,who knows?:p

Speaking of which,mustapha,what about UFO's?What are they?Bush's secret police?

What can you explain without logic? Without logic there is only unfounded guesswork, which isn't a definitive answer.
no theyres something called intuitive knowing and emotional intelligence and all manner of alternative perceptions

Wow,it sounds MustaphaMond has been on www.theforbiddenknowledge.com way too much,or he's just start raving mad.

Or mabye he is right,who knows?:p

Speaking of which,mustapha,what about UFO's?What are they?Bush's secret police?
Your government is poised to inject you with a tracking chip manufactured by Applied Digital Solutions called, "Veri Chip"--that storys true-I did a report on it once

UFOs in the Final Battle will unite with The Mighty People of the world to fight against CorporateBeast which seeks to enslave the human race

OK everyone, I'm going to have to say something here, even though I said I would leave this topic.

Mustapha, you have provided absolutely *NO* proof for your arguments. At all. You denounce logic, and bombard us with what is, in esscense, crap. In the end, you cannot prove ANYTHING you have said, thus meaning we cannot logically believe you without it being guesswork. If you can prove it, sumbit it.

But you can't.

Thus, you have been crushed.

Logical Coalition: 1

MustaphaMond516: 0

Good day.

you cant prove the existence of the material world--all it is is a mass of swirling atoms with no real substance

OK everyone, I'm going to have to say something here, even though I said I would leave this topic.

Mustapha, you have provided absolutely *NO* proof for your arguments. At all. You denounce logic, and bombard us with what is, in esscense, crap. In the end, you cannot prove ANYTHING you have said, thus meaning we cannot logically believe you without it being guesswork. If you can prove it, sumbit it.

I shouldn't have to point this out, but you can't prove or disprove logic.

Asking someone to prove that logic is faulty is like asking someone who denies mathematics to add.

So, as MM has said, you cannot prove his belief, only accept it.

You can prove belief by putting it to a test. >.> Just like a person who hates math to use it every day.

You can prove belief by putting it to a test.

Correct, but as the proof Pythogria is looking for is the result of a logical deduction, his repeated calls for it are absolutely pointless.

MM says that you cannot logically prove anything, to which Pythogria replies "Prove it." Do you get what I am saying?

Just like a person who hates math to use it every day.

Not hates math, denies its concept as a whole. Someone who denies math would say that one plus one does not necessarily equal two.

yeah I dont have to use Logic

you cant prove the existence of the material world--all it is is a mass of swirling atoms with no real substance
What the hell...? Ok, now that is the stupdiest thing I've ever read here and I've been around for quite sometime and my bullshit immunity level is quite high.

The material world, in the sense that we understand it to be, is tangible, and therefore, its existance doesn't need to be proved because it is right there in front of us.

Oh and the secret police that Bush uses? ;) Why else does he have the Secret Service (SS)? He and all the other previous presidents needed it because they wanted to show that they were as far as the left as possible by embracing a right wing idea... :p

yeah I dont have to use Logic
In Soviet Russia, logic uses you!

What the hell...? Ok, now that is the stupdiest thing I've ever read here and I've been around for quite sometime and my bullshit immunity level is quite high.

The material world, in the sense that we understand it to be, is tangible, and therefore, its existance doesn't need to be proved because it is right there in front of us.

Oh and the secret police that Bush uses? ;) Why else does he have the Secret Service (SS)? He and all the other previous presidents needed it because they wanted to show that they were as far as the left as possible by embracing a right wing idea... :p
are you trying to say Bush is a nanny state fascist?--I think hes more of a corporate terrorist

yeah the stuff is right in front of us but its not what you think it is--it has no solidity

no theyres something called intuitive knowing and emotional intelligence and all manner of alternative perceptions

These things could leave you to believe anything, and since there is no logic behind them there is no reason trust them anymore than lies. Gut feelings from yourself do not necessarily prove anything about the environment aroung yourself.

These things could leave you to believe anything, and since there is no logic behind them there is no reason trust them anymore than lies. Gut feelings from yourself do not necessarily prove anything about the environment aroung yourself.
But using logic against a person who denies the whole concept isn't getting you anywhere either.

But using logic against a person who denies the whole concept isn't getting you anywhere either.

Now this is logic.

are you trying to say Bush is a nanny state fascist?--I think hes more of a corporate terrorist

yeah the stuff is right in front of us but its not what you think it is--it has no solidity
No, I'm saying that if you're going to call Bush a terrorist that all the other previosu administrations had their leanings as well.

Also, I'm just making fun of the fact that both have an SS, though each both serve different purposes. Further, it seems that my sarcasm was wasted on you. I guess the smileys didn't help... pity really.