NationStates Jolt Archive

I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor. We do not need them we have millions of people in prison who could do the work. I say throw their sorry Mexican flag waving asses out of the country. If they think Mexico is so god dam great then we should send their sorry asses back. I am tired of driving by a bunch of stupid ass kids protesting blocking the roads and highways while they are waving their peice of shit Mexican flags. Send their sorry asses back and let prisoners pick the god dam fruit.

What's if it's an illegal in prison?

Then put their ass to work picking fruit. We might as well get some work out of them for the $30,000 a year we are spending on them staying in prison.

I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor. We do not need them we have millions of people in prison who could do the work. I say throw their sorry Mexican flag waving asses out of the country. If they think Mexico is so god dam great then we should send their sorry asses back. I am tired of driving by a bunch of stupid ass kids protesting blocking the roads and highways while they are waving their peice of shit Mexican flags. Send their sorry asses back and let prisoners pick the god dam fruit.
Ya know we don't even need the prisoners.

You have hereby demonstrated that you're unskilled enough for the job...

Pick up your basket by the truck, you got three fields to finish today, better get moving.

Let's see, replace people who come here for a better life for themselves and their families with people who have commited crimes and injured society. Yes, that's perfectly logical.

Ya know we don't even need the prisoners.

You have hereby demonstrated that you're unskilled enough for the job...

Pick up your basket by the truck, you got three fields to finish today, better get moving.

You have hereby demostrated that you are a dumbass that has no idea what the hell is going on in the borderstates. California is about to explode with racial tension. If this border issue is not taken care of soon the riots in France will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen in California.

cant you think of ANY drawbacks to this proposal?

little bitty things like the constitution outlawing slavery

or

the part where you have to have guards for prisoners

or

the part where its maybe not WISE to let murderers out

or

the part where there are more illegal aliens than there are prisoners and many many more than the prisoners trustworthy enough to let out of prison under guard

or

the transportation/housing problems

or

the part where maybe states dont want a flood of prisoners coming to their state even if it will get the lettuce picked

im sure i could keep going...

Let's see, replace people who come here for a better life for themselves and their families with people who have commited crimes and injured society. Yes, that's perfectly logical.

No it's replacing foriegn criminals who have crossed the border illegally domestic criminals

You have hereby demostrated that you are a dumbass that has no idea what the hell is going on in the borderstates. California is about to explode with racial tension. If this border issue is not taken care of soon the riots in France will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen in California.
But that's because there are too many white people. They should move them to Idaho.

No it's replacing foriegn criminals who have crossed the border illegally domestic criminals


How many illegal immigrants have committed any crimes other than crossing the border?

Prisoners have a demonstrated history of performing acts deemed detrimental to society. Illegal immigrants have a demonstrated history of crossing an semi-arbitrary line (no, I'm not arguing for eliminating the border or anything like that) in order to feed their families. Which one would you rather have out in the open in a situation where they could relatively easily go where they pleased and do as they wished?

You have hereby demostrated that you are a dumbass that has no idea what the hell is going on in the borderstates. California is about to explode with racial tension. If this border issue is not taken care of soon the riots in France will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen in California.
Just what the fuck is "racial tension" supposed to mean? I never got that. Is it that all of a sudden all whites become one against all something else becoming another? O, man, you really like the idiotic frame of mind out there in the border states of USia.

You have hereby demostrated that you are a dumbass that has no idea what the hell is going on in the borderstates. California is about to explode with racial tension. If this border issue is not taken care of soon the riots in France will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen in California.I'm a fifth generation native of the Great state of California. Y'know that place that was originally colonized by Spain, once part of Mexico and had it's original Constitution signed by Blacks, Indians and Mexicans as well as whites.

I have probably been voting and paying taxes longer than you have been alive.

Now take your bed sheet and run along, we've been dealing with this issue just fine for generations without your alarmist and racist input.

cant you think of ANY drawbacks to this proposal?

little bitty things like the constitution outlawing slavery

or

the part where you have to have guards for prisoners

or

the part where its maybe not WISE to let murderers out

or

the part where there are more illegal aliens than there are prisoners and many many more than the prisoners trustworthy enough to let out of prison under guard

or

the transportation/housing problems

or

the part where maybe states dont want a flood of prisoners coming to their state even if it will get the lettuce picked

im sure i could keep going...

Actually, in Uganda prisoners are put to work as farmers to produce their own food. In addition, surplus produce is sold at cheap prices to the general population. The system has been in place for decades with no issues. Federal prisons could quite sucessfully turn prisoners to such a form of manual labor. Now, in terms of legality, that might be another story. The extra guards would fit quite well into the budget due to the drop in expenditures on prison food.

You have hereby demostrated that you are a dumbass that has no idea what the hell is going on in the borderstates. California is about to explode with racial tension. If this border issue is not taken care of soon the riots in France will look like a cake walk compared to what will happen in California.

It's all in your head, kid. There is absolutely no "racial tension" that hasn't been created by politicians and the so called "Minutemen" with their silly worries about a problem that can't be solved realistically, and probably shouldn't.

Besides which, do you really want criminals to get jobs that HONEST hard-working people were doing before? It's purely silly to think our marijuanna users (oh NOES!) are worse than some guy who jumps the border to improve his families well being. It's like some kind of odd nationalism: "HA! See! Even our CRIMINALS are more deserving than your people!"

Actually, in Uganda prisoners are put to work as farmers to produce their own food. In addition, surplus produce is sold at cheap prices to the general population. The system has been in place for decades with no issues. Federal prisons could quite sucessfully turn prisoners to such a form of manual labor. Now, in terms of legality, that might be another story. The extra guards would fit quite well into the budget due to the drop in expenditures on prison food.
interesting story.

in a poor country like uganda that may well be the only way their prisoners are guaranteed food.

it has nothing to do with freaky's proposal though now does it?

cant you think of ANY drawbacks to this proposal?

little bitty things like the constitution outlawing slavery

WTF do you think illegal immigration is and here is an idea maybe the farmers could try paying a decent wage.

the part where you have to have guards for prisoners

Why can't the prison guards go to the orange grove?

the part where its maybe not WISE to let murderers out


Have you ever heard of a chain gang how would this be any differant

the part where there are more illegal aliens than there are prisoners and many many more than the prisoners trustworthy enough to let out of prison under guard

We only need enough prisoners to pick our crop and you forget this is America we have millions of prisoners.


the transportation/housing problems

The bus that took them to prison will do and we could drive them back to the prison or put them in well guarded tent cities.


the part where maybe states dont want a flood of prisoners coming to their state even if it will get the lettuce picked

Well most lettuce is grown in California and we have plenty of prisoners here to do the job.


im sure i could keep going...

Yes I am sure you could keep on going about why we need unskilled illegal immigrants to destroy the middle class.

interesting story.

in a poor country like uganda that may well be the only way their prisoners are guaranteed food.

it has nothing to do with freaky's proposal though now does it?

I fail to see how they're unrelated. They both deal with prisoners becoming farmers, don't they? Of course, its different from PRECISELY what Freaky's talking about (hiring prisoners on private land, which IS rather unrealistic). But if prisoners can be made to pick up trash on highways, why can't they be made to grow their own food?

Okay, I have an idea. Let's grant a pardon to all the illegals here right now, and then if they want to bring any more family across the border, they can pay to have it done legally.

Oh...wait...they tried that before...okay, time to annex Mexico.

But that's because there are too many white people. They should move them to Idaho.

Well if the white people go California would turn into what Mexico is now a third world nightmare.

Well if the white people go California would turn into what Mexico is now a third world nightmare.

Now that's just racist.

Oh...wait...they tried that before...okay, time to annex Mexico.
Yaay! Vieja, bring out the José Cuervo, the gringos are coming. We'll finally be able to unload this crap!

How many illegal immigrants have committed any crimes other than crossing the border?

Prisoners have a demonstrated history of performing acts deemed detrimental to society. Illegal immigrants have a demonstrated history of crossing an semi-arbitrary line (no, I'm not arguing for eliminating the border or anything like that) in order to feed their families. Which one would you rather have out in the open in a situation where they could relatively easily go where they pleased and do as they wished?

The prisoners won't go were they please they will be guarded. (Some one could invent one of those neck bombs that explode when you leave the perimenter like on The Running Man) But seriously
there are ways to do this prisoners have been doing manual labor for thousands of years.

Well if the white people go California would turn into what Mexico is now a third world nightmare.
Yeah, but at least there'll be no racial tension and it would have awesome beer.

The prisoners won't go were they please they will be guarded. (Some one could invent one of those neck bombs that explode when you leave the perimenter like on The Running Man) But seriously
there are ways to do this prisoners have been doing manual labor for thousands of years.

NECK BOMBS?!?!!? Now that's gonna go down REAL well....

Neck tazers, maybe.

Yaay! Vieja, bring out the José Cuervo, the gringos are coming. We'll finally be able to unload this crap!

Jose Cuervo....*shudder*

Now that's just racist.

Actually...he does have a point...

I really am sorry for those poor people living in poverty down in Mexico, but maybe they should get up off their ass and fix their own country like many other countries have tried. At least we could say they actually made an effort if they did...

Actually...he does have a point...

I really am sorry for those poor people living in poverty down in Mexico, but maybe they should get up off their ass and fix their own country like many other countries have tried. At least we could say they actually made an effort if they did...
So their failure to create a 1st world country makes them lazy?

Actually...he does have a point...

I really am sorry for those poor people living in poverty down in Mexico, but maybe they should get up off their ass and fix their own country like many other countries have tried. At least we could say they actually made an effort if they did...

Developing a nation in a world where America and the rest of the northern Hemisphere is DAMN hard. You don't exactly have much in the way of exports... Big business and philanthropists are seriously screwing over the thrid world. Big business by exploiting desperate people, and philanthropy by taking away their motivation. If I paid you to do nothing all your life, would you work?

Just what the fuck is "racial tension" supposed to mean? I never got that. Is it that all of a sudden all whites become one against all something else becoming another? O, man, you really like the idiotic frame of mind out there in the border states of USia.

Racial tension is beating people up in los angeles on the fourth of July for supporting independance day. Racial tension is when you take the American flag and set it on fire and then put your third world peice of shit Mexican flag up. Racial tension is walking out of class that is paid for by the US tax payer so you can wave your stupid peice of shit Mexican Flag and talk shit about America.

I really am sorry for those poor people living in poverty down in Mexico, but maybe they should get up off their ass and fix their own country like many other countries have tried. At least we could say they actually made an effort if they did...
Not very knowledgeable of Mexican modern history, are you?

I fail to see how they're unrelated. They both deal with prisoners becoming farmers, don't they? Of course, its different from PRECISELY what Freaky's talking about (hiring prisoners on private land, which IS rather unrealistic). But if prisoners can be made to pick up trash on highways, why can't they be made to grow their own food?
because freaky is talking about replacing an undesirable (to him) workforce with slave labor which is being used to profit private businesses.

prisoners arent forced to pick up trash, they do it to get out of jail for the day.

i believe there are already prisons in the country that have prison gardens. however, you cant starve prisoners who dont grow enough food eh? its fine in other countries but in the united states it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

Racial tension is beating people up in los angeles on the fourth of July for supporting independance day. Racial tension is when you take the American flag and set it on fire and then put your third world peice of shit Mexican flag up. Racial tension is walking out of class that is paid for by the US tax payer so you can wave your stupid peice of shit Mexican Flag and talk shit about America.
I'm sorry, but the America I live in is a multicultural democracy that allows both cultural pride and protests. Furthermore, what gives you the right to classify a country as a piece of shit?

California is about to explode with racial tension.

onwards aryan brother!

Developing a nation in a world where America and the rest of the northern Hemisphere is DAMN hard. You don't exactly have much in the way of exports... Big business and philanthropists are seriously screwing over the thrid world. Big business by exploiting desperate people, and philanthropy by taking away their motivation. If I paid you to do nothing all your life, would you work?

Yeah, actually. I grew up in a house where, if you didn't put in an honest amount of work, or at least the effort, you went without.

I didn't grow up in some middle class life style. I lived in a rather dilapidated house with no heating, air conditioning, running water, or any of those other yuppie 'necessities.'

I'm only here right now because I worked my ass off, and that's why I sympathize with the illegals, but my only problem is that they expect Constitutional representation when they weren't even born in this country, let alone applied for citizenship. That's where I draw the line.

I'm a fifth generation native of the Great state of California. Y'know that place that was originally colonized by Spain, once part of Mexico and had it's original Constitution signed by Blacks, Indians and Mexicans as well as whites.

I have probably been voting and paying taxes longer than you have been alive.

Now take your bed sheet and run along, we've been dealing with this issue just fine for generations without your alarmist and racist input.

Yes you commie liberals have been dealing with it so well just look at how well california is doing. The
standard of living is going down there are parts of the San Joaquin valley that are considerd third world living standards. You can take your hammer and sickle and shove it where the sun doesnt shine.

Yes you commie liberals have been dealing with it so well just look at how well california is doing. The
standard of living is going down there are parts of the San Joaquin valley that are considerd third world living standards. You can take your hammer and sickle and shove it where the sun doesnt shine.
Channeling Sen. McCarthy are we?

Yes you commie liberals have been dealing with it so well just look at how well california is doing. The
standard of living is going down there are parts of the San Joaquin valley that are considerd third world living standards. You can take your hammer and sickle and shove it where the sun doesnt shine.

Exqueeze me David Duke, but since when was Conan the Republican a Commie Liberal? It's his watch, his charge.

because freaky is talking about replacing an undesirable (to him) workforce with slave labor which is being used to profit private businesses.

prisoners arent forced to pick up trash, they do it to get out of jail for the day.

i believe there are already prisons in the country that have prison gardens. however, you cant starve prisoners who dont grow enough food eh? its fine in other countries but in the united states it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

If I had all the answers I'd be out making the world a better place. But none of us are. We squabble on a forum because we have some ideas that we'd like to have heard. I don't have the blueprints for a flawless prison farming system, but I do believe that it could work.

Anyhow, getting back to the issue of illegal immigrants. Anyone who thinks that illegal immigrants should be protected by the constitution hasn't really given this issue much thought. Consider this: we make traversing the border without any penalties or fees for an indefinite amount of time legal. What's stopping people from flocking to the US to get jobs and free education? Where does the money to support these people come from? Why do we have to pay taxes and they don't? Are you okay with supporting several families who you've never even met with money coming out of your paycheck? Seriously, illegal immigrants have no right living in our country. For god's sake its ILLEGAL.

And just to say this before someone points it out:

Let's assume that illegal immigrants aren't given the right to education and healthcare. Is it really okay to allow slums to crop up all over the US with a huge population of low-class workers?

Channeling Sen. McCarthy are we?

straight neo-nazi talking points, actually.

Now that's just racist.

So you are saying Mexico is a paradise than why are
over 11 million Mexicans coming here illegally .
You cant call truth racism

Where does the money to support these people come from?

how much support exactly do you think they need?

Why do we have to pay taxes and they don't?

they pay taxes too - even income taxes. and if you are really concerned about it, well, it was high time to shift the burden of all that paperwork even further onto bosses and bankers and away from individuals anyways.

Yeah, but at least there'll be no racial tension and it would have awesome beer.

Yes Mexicans do have good beer I will give them that.

how much support exactly do you think they need?



they pay taxes too - even income taxes. and if you are really concerned about it, well, it was high time to shift the burden of all that paperwork even further onto bosses and bankers and away from individuals anyways.

They're not illegal immigrants if they start paying taxes. Then they're permanent residents of the united states.

If I had all the answers I'd be out making the world a better place. But none of us are. We squabble on a forum because we have some ideas that we'd like to have heard. I don't have the blueprints for a flawless prison farming system, but I do believe that it could work.

Anyhow, getting back to the issue of illegal immigrants. Anyone who thinks that illegal immigrants should be protected by the constitution hasn't really given this issue much thought. Consider this: we make traversing the border without any penalties or fees for an indefinite amount of time legal. What's stopping people from flocking to the US to get jobs and free education? Where does the money to support these people come from? Why do we have to pay taxes and they don't? Are you okay with supporting several families who you've never even met with money coming out of your paycheck? Seriously, illegal immigrants have no right living in our country. For god's sake its ILLEGAL.

And just to say this before someone points it out:

Let's assume that illegal immigrants aren't given the right to education and healthcare. Is it really okay to allow slums to crop up all over the US with a huge population of low-class workers?

Okay, I'm not Christian, but I gotta admit, that deserves an Amen.

How many illegal immigrants have committed any crimes other than crossing the border?

Prisoners have a demonstrated history of performing acts deemed detrimental to society. Illegal immigrants have a demonstrated history of crossing an semi-arbitrary line (no, I'm not arguing for eliminating the border or anything like that) in order to feed their families. Which one would you rather have out in the open in a situation where they could relatively easily go where they pleased and do as they wished?
ha, crime statistics show illegal aliens bring a disproportionate amount of crime to an area. They also represent a hugely disproportionate amount of the population of prisons compared to the actual proportion of them in the general population. Besides that, someone who disrespects a law, i.e. border crossing illegally, is likely to disrespect any other law that doesn't suit them.

So you are saying Mexico is a paradise than why are
over 11 million Mexicans coming here illegally .
You cant call truth racism

No. You're blaming Mexico's current economic situation on their race. That is immature and ignorant. Mexico is not a paradise. But its not a bloody cultural phenomenon. Its a result of the modern economic restraints induced by world trade dominated by countries with more economic clout. Think before you go throwing around your ignorant racist comments.

They're not illegal immigrants if they start paying taxes. Then they're permanent residents of the united states.
Sorry but that is completely wrong. Paying taxes doesn't automatically make you able to legally permanently reside here.

ha, crime statistics show illegal aliens bring a disproportionate amount of crime to an area. They also represent a hugely disproportionate amount of the population of prisons compared to the actual proportion of them in the general population. Besides that, someone who disrespects a law, i.e. border crossing illegally, is likely to disrespect any other law that doesn't suit them.

Exactly!

Sorry but that is completely wrong. Paying taxes doesn't automatically make you able to legally permanently reside here.

In my mind its good enough. So long as they pay taxes they can stay. Sorry for mixing up legal terminology and my personal viewpoints.

They're not illegal immigrants if they start paying taxes. Then they're permanent residents of the united states.

sales taxes and property taxes are paid by everybody that buys things and lives somewhere. payroll taxes are paid by everyone who is employed in any psuedo-legitimate fashion (using fake id or a random string of numbers for social security, etc). hell, illegals can currently file tax returns using irs issued individual tax identification numbers.

I agree with Golgan about the taxes. If they pay them, they can stay.

Everyone else, GTFO!:mp5:

I agree with Golgan about the taxes. If they pay them, they can stay.

Everyone else, GTFO!:mp5:

Yay, supporters!! That means I made a point!! Whoo!! my first point on the forums!! :D

In my mind its good enough. So long as they pay taxes they can stay. Sorry for mixing up legal terminology and my personal viewpoints.
have you heard about the new plan congress is working on? There will be 11 "gateways" illegal immigrants will have to clear in 11 years. These include learning english, not being unemployed for longer than 45 days, no crimes, criminal background check, etc. The thinking is that if they can accomplish that, then they will be contributing to our country and they will deserve to be citizens and at that point will become one.

Yay, supporters!! That means I made a point!! Whoo!! my first point on the forums!! :D

Well, it's an excellent point! I mean, if I have to pay for your illegal child to have a free education, why not pay for my LEGAL child to have one, too?

I'm sorry, but the America I live in is a [B]multicultural democracy that allows both cultural pride and protests.

I don't think you have been to Southern California its all Mexican baby, there not multicultural population its a Mexican invasion where I live is 80% hispanic and they do not care or want to be part of the US. Viva la RAZA


Furthermore, what gives you the right to classify a country as a piece of shit?

Because if it was so good why are Mexicans leaving
by the Millions.

have you heard about the new plan congress is working on? There will be 11 "gateways" illegal immigrants will have to clear in 11 years. These include learning english, not being unemployed for longer than 45 days, no crimes, criminal background check, etc. The thinking is that if they can accomplish that, then they will be contributing to our country and they will deserve to be citizens and at that point will become one.

Hmm...seems like a reasonable proposal. My only objection to illegal immigration is that it produces a tax burden. If that tax burden is removed, then great! They're no longer a detriment to the country. Sounds like the congressional plan is a good way to make illegal immigrants legal residents. Though I'm not sure about 11 years...that's quite a bit. Thanks for that info! Please reply to fill me in if I missed something.

Edit: oops, didn't notice that that wasn't the full list of gateways!

If corporations were forced to pay illegal immigrants the same wages as citizens, there would be no more incentive to hire illegal immigrants and those selfsame companies would stop doing it.

Wanna get rid of the illegal immigrants? Fight for their labour rights.

If corporations were forced to pay illegal immigrants the same wages as citizens, there would be no more incentive to hire illegal immigrants and those selfsame companies would stop doing it.

Wanna get rid of the illegal immigrants? Fight for their labour rights.

I can't see a LOGICAL reason for them to stop, unless they were
a) fanatically nationalistic
b) racist

Hmm...seems like a reasonable proposal. My only objection to illegal immigration is that it produces a tax burden. If that tax burden is removed, then great! They're no longer a detriment to the country. Sounds like the congressional plan is a good way to make illegal immigrants legal residents. Though I'm not sure about 11 years...that's quite a bit. Thanks for that info! Please reply to fill me in if I missed something.
I think it's the right direction because it's too late to enforce current laws by deporting 11 million people. We'd be bankrupt. But my only concern is that in a way it's cutting in front of people who are still in their countries trying to get here legally, bc these people get to do the process here in the US, and it's sort of a reward, even after years, of breaking the law to originally come here. But then again, from the sound of it, there's probably only about three people still in their countries trying to do it legally, so cutting in line may not be that big of a deal.

Channeling Sen. McCarthy are we?

Hey how did you know?

If corporations were forced to pay illegal immigrants the same wages as citizens, there would be no more incentive to hire illegal immigrants and those selfsame companies would stop doing it.

Wanna get rid of the illegal immigrants? Fight for their labour rights.
the companies would also go out of business supposedly. that's the vicious cycle. illegals need us, in a way we need them.

I have several points to make here so i will keep it short.

If you want to send all the "illegals" back home, you better buy a plain ticjet buddy. Because we are all illegal aliens. Or did you forget that we stole this in the first place. Telling other people to leave land that never belonged to you in the first place is moronic.

Did you ever stop to think there might be a reason that they are behind bars?(other than the people the goverment imprisions illegaly)

Did you ever stop and think the reason there is so much racial tention, is ecause of people like you that share your judgement? People are allways going to kill eachother, as long as there is poverity in this country there is going to be crime, and gang related violence.

The reason crime is on the rise, is beacuse of all the loss of jobs nation wide do to our lovely presidents "political reforms". All the "racial tension" has nothing to do with immigration, it has to do with the lack of jobs do to the craptastic economy we have.

There are alot of problems in this country, and nothing shy of a well needed marxsist revilution will fix that.

********************************

here is a littel senario i worked out in my head that might exsplain some of the reason, "racial tension" is on the rise.

Immagrents come to this country seeking a better life and jobs. They get here and realise there are no jobs to be had other then a few under the table grunt work at a machanic, or sell drugs or guns with is a huge enterprise right now.

because it is a illiegal substance there is no regulation on waht is and isnt price gougeing, so one can easly get filthy ritch in a matter of weeks of your samrt.

As for the guns thats easy, beacuse there is crime do to know jobs. the people commiting the crimes struggle to control the areas of income they own and exsand it.

Just like us when we came to america, you cant gain terriory by throwing gummie bears at your apponent so the market for "boom sticks" is also high. Kill the rival gang take there land get more money.

All this could be solved if there were acually any jobs for them to take, that and the goverment need sto realise tey cant stop drug trade so they might as well monopolise it.
Also there is not such thing as a "Illeigal Immagrent" its just a term the Bourgeois capitalist pigs, use to brand people who take there money.

(I am sorry if i went way off topic) *shrug* Theres my 2 cents

I think it's the right direction because it's too late to enforce current laws by deporting 11 million people. We'd be bankrupt. But my only concern is that in a way it's cutting in front of people who are still in their countries trying to get here legally, bc these people get to do the process here in the US, and it's sort of a reward, even after years, of breaking the law to originally come here. But then again, from the sound of it, there's probably only about three people still in their countries trying to do it legally, so cutting in line may not be that big of a deal.

*scoffs* Eleven million?

Where'd you get that number, out of a hat. Dude, the media is WAAAAAAY off. When I was a kid, THAT number might have been accurate. I'm guessing the number's tripled, maybe even quadrupled since the seventies.

straight neo-nazi talking points, actually.

I would not know I have never watched the Hitler Factor.

ha, crime statistics show illegal aliens bring a disproportionate amount of crime to an area. They also represent a hugely disproportionate amount of the population of prisons compared to the actual proportion of them in the general population.

actually, that has to do with sample bias. illegal immigrants are disproportionately young males, who are always the main group of criminals everywhere. also illegal immigrants, when arrested, are far more likely to be incarcerated before and during trial than other accused criminals are. when these two facts are taken into account, it turns out that their rates of criminal activity are the same or lower than citizens.

see:
"Sociological Criminology and the Mythology of Hispanic Immigration and Crime" by John Hagan and Alberto Palloni
Social Problems, Vol. 46, No. 4, pp. 617-632.


and, of course, during this huge 'invasion' of illegal immigrants we've been experiencing, crime rates across the country have fallen. and, in fact, many of the border states and cities have actually had even lower crime rates than the states and cities deep inside the country.

I have several points to make here so i will keep it short.

If you want to send all the "illegals" back home, you better buy a plain ticjet buddy. Because we are all illegal aliens. Or did you forget that we stole this in the first place. Telling other people to leave land that never belonged to you in the first place is moronic.

Did you ever stop to think there might be a reason that they are behind bars?(other than the people the goverment imprisions illegaly)

Did you ever stop and think the reason there is so much racial tention, is ecause of people like you that share your judgement? People are allways going to kill eachother, as long as there is poverity in this country there is going to be crime, and gang related violence.

The reason crime is on the rise, is beacuse of all the loss of jobs nation wide do to our lovely presidents "political reforms". All the "racial tension" has nothing to do with immigration, it has to do with the lack of jobs do to the craptastic economy we have.

There are alot of problems in this country, and nothing shy of a well needed marxsist revilution will fix that.

********************************

here is a littel senario i worked out in my head that might exsplain some of the reason, "racial tension" is on the rise.

Immagrents come to this country seeking a better life and jobs. They get here and realise there are no jobs to be had other then a few under the table grunt work at a machanic, or sell drugs or guns with is a huge enterprise right now.

because it is a illiegal substance there is no regulation on waht is and isnt price gougeing, so one can easly get filthy ritch in a matter of weeks of your samrt.

As for the guns thats easy, beacuse there is crime do to know jobs. the people commiting the crimes struggle to control the areas of income they own and exsand it.

Just like us when we came to america, you cant gain terriory by throwing gummie bears at your apponent so the market for "boom sticks" is also high. Kill the rival gang take there land get more money.

All this could be solved if there were acually any jobs for them to take, that and the goverment need sto realise tey cant stop drug trade so they might as well monopolise it.
Also there is not such thing as a "Illeigal Immagrent" its just a term the Bourgeois capitalist pigs, use to brand people who take there money.

(I am sorry if i went way off topic) *shrug* Theres my 2 cents

Marxism degrades into Stalinism. Figure the rest out yourself.

I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor. We do not need them we have millions of people in prison who could do the work. I say throw their sorry Mexican flag waving asses out of the country. If they think Mexico is so god dam great then we should send their sorry asses back. I am tired of driving by a bunch of stupid ass kids protesting blocking the roads and highways while they are waving their peice of shit Mexican flags. Send their sorry asses back and let prisoners pick the god dam fruit.

Well you've got my vote, I figure if we remove all the illegal Aliens we can build technology to replace what they do , the reason there is no inovation in those jobs is that well there is a cheap supply of illegal Aliens.
Dont' get me wrong, I figure we can increase the pipeline for legal immigration that way we meet some of the need.
I hate to think that we have to rely on people who have broken the law. I mean if they broke the law once and get away with it , then whats to stop them the next time and no I don't buy the arguement that they are one time offenders (there is no proof to back that up besides many of them also commit tax fraud (and Identity Theft and all the connected set of crimes)).
But I'm willing to listen to the other side just that I'm not convinced that amnesty will work ( okay fine the ones that have broken the law now and make it a felony for future offenders (I'll accept that)).
just a thought
Steven

New Gothland, I don't even know where to start.

We are not illegal aliens. For that matter neither are the children of illegal aliens that are born in the US.

A reason who is behind bars. What you are trying to say isn't clear there.

You say as long as there is poverity in this country there is going to be crime, and gang related violence. Is it not possible illegals trying to live under the radar contribute ALOT to poverty, crime, gang related violence.

I'm not even going to mention Marxism because socialism doesn't work!!!

*scoffs* Eleven million?

Where'd you get that number, out of a hat. Dude, the media is WAAAAAAY off. When I was a kid, THAT number might have been accurate. I'm guessing the number's tripled, maybe even quadrupled since the seventies.
well it was about 4 million during Regan's amnesty in the 80s.

Let's see, replace people who come here for a better life for themselves and their families with people who have commited crimes and injured society. Yes, that's perfectly logical.
Isn't jumping the boarder a crime? Isn't prison work rehabilitating the convict?

Let's see, screw the people who might actually change from when they were in prison. Let's give those illegal mexicans the jobs LEGAL citizens could do. Yep, increase poverty, drugs related crimes. Hey! Maybe they'll end up in jail and working the farm anway!

well it was about 4 million during Regan's amnesty in the 80s.

Bull. Reagan pulled that out of his ass when he talked about that. In reality, it was somewhere along the lines of 15 million. It's probably about 45-60 million now.

actually, that has to do with sample bias. illegal immigrants are disproportionately young males, who are always the main group of criminals everywhere. also illegal immigrants, when arrested, are far more likely to be incarcerated before and during trial than other accused criminals are. when these two facts are taken into account, it turns out that their rates of criminal activity are the same or lower than citizens.

see:
"Sociological Criminology and the Mythology of Hispanic Immigration and Crime" by John Hagan and Alberto Palloni
Social Problems, Vol. 46, No. 4, pp. 617-632.


and, of course, during this huge 'invasion' of illegal immigrants we've been experiencing, crime rates across the country have fallen. and, in fact, many of the border states and cities have actually had even lower crime rates than the states and cities deep inside the country.

Unfortunately I don't have that textbook at hand. I am talking simple proportions, fractions. If there are only 5% hispanic in Oregon, why are they represented at 30% of the prison population. YOur fact doesn't account for such a huge discrepancy. Also, Oregon is not a border state.

Bull. Reagan pulled that out of his ass when he talked about that. In reality, it was somewhere along the lines of 15 million. It's probably about 45-60 million now.
I don't know abuot that. The whole US pop. is only 295mil. Whether you agree or not, that's the accepted number.

Marxism degrades into Stalinism. Figure the rest out yourself.


Thats were your wrong, Marxsim leads to communism.

Communism is the perfect govement, try reading the manifesto.

The Soviet union, China, North Korea, Cuba.

None of them are communist. Its all just a massive propaganda campain. "yeah we are communist.." <.< >.>

Then they have you exsicuted...*sigh*

Isn't jumping the boarder a crime? Isn't prison work rehabilitating the convict?

Let's see, screw the people who might actually change from when they were in prison. Let's give those illegal mexicans the jobs LEGAL citizens could do. Yep, increase poverty, drugs related crimes. Hey! Maybe they'll end up in jail and working the farm anway!

I love how you add that up, because it's so true!:D

I have several points to make here so i will keep it short.

If you want to send all the "illegals" back home, you better buy a plain ticjet buddy. Because we are all illegal aliens. Or did you forget that we stole this in the first place. Telling other people to leave land that never belonged to you in the first place is moronic.
There's a difference between morality and law. We didn't break any laws taking this nation from the Native Americans. It wasn't NICE, but it wasn't illegal, either. Frankly, its a seperate question from illegal immigrants who have broken laws.

There are alot of problems in this country, and nothing shy of a well needed marxsist revilution will fix that.
Steady on there, let's not go waving the Marxist flag - its a pretty flawed system, but well intentioned. But that's a seperate argument.

here is a littel senario i worked out in my head that might exsplain some of the reason, "racial tension" is on the rise.

Immagrents come to this country seeking a better life and jobs. They get here and realise there are no jobs to be had other then a few under the table grunt work at a machanic, or sell drugs or guns with is a huge enterprise right now.

because it is a illiegal substance there is no regulation on waht is and isnt price gougeing, so one can easly get filthy ritch in a matter of weeks of your samrt.

As for the guns thats easy, beacuse there is crime do to know jobs. the people commiting the crimes struggle to control the areas of income they own and exsand it.

Just like us when we came to america, you cant gain terriory by throwing gummie bears at your apponent so the market for "boom sticks" is also high. Kill the rival gang take there land get more money.

All this could be solved if there were acually any jobs for them to take, that and the goverment need sto realise tey cant stop drug trade so they might as well monopolise it.
Also there is not such thing as a "Illeigal Immagrent" its just a term the Bourgeois capitalist pigs, use to brand people who take there money.

(I am sorry if i went way off topic) *shrug* Theres my 2 cents
No such thing as 'Illegal Immigrant'?? What? No, no, they didn't fulfill their legal obligations when they crossed the border. Ergo, they broke the law during immigration - hence the term 'Illegal Immigrant'. As for all that drug trade stuff....that's an interesting idea, but monopolizing it won't change anything unless they sell the drugs dirt cheap. Which they won't. Because they'll have to pass purity examinations, which jack the price. And illegal producers will sell it cheaper and STILL make a tidy profit. Not a solution. It just makes drugs more available.

No. You're blaming Mexico's current economic situation on their race. That is immature and ignorant.
Tell me where I said that Mr. Weenie Wagger?



Mexico is not a paradise. But its not a bloody cultural phenomenon. Its a result of the modern economic restraints induced by world trade dominated by countries with more economic clout. Think before you go throwing around your ignorant racist comments.

It a result of a corrupt Mexican government who does not give a shit about its people. Mexicans should stop waving their piece of shit flag protesting our laws and go back to their own country and fix it.

cant you think of ANY drawbacks to this proposal?
the part where you have to have guards for prisoners
Simple solution: We hire wetback Mexicans to be the guards, as they're cheap!

Thats were your wrong, Marxsim leads to communism.

Communism is the perfect govement, try reading the manifesto.

The Soviet union, China, North Korea, Cuba.

None of them are communist. Its all just a massive propaganda campain. "yeah we are communist.." <.< >.>

Then they have you exsicuted...*sigh*
WEll my understanding is the society is oppressed under capitalism to become a socialist and classless society.

OKay, I see what you are saying. Maybe on paper it works. Like a law of consecration. The problem comes in with the people in control=corruption. That's always the case in history.

Okay, I'd like to point out something that I learned while in college.

When Marxism is applied to a country, a sense of equality, in every aspect, is meant to take hold.

However, when this sense of equality is spread, some people just can't take it and become power-hungry dictators, like Stalin, or Mao Se Tung.

Suddenly, nothing is equal because you find out that there are leaders. Okay, well, if there are leaders, they are going to try and bend the law just enough to make it work in their personal favor, right?

Seems to me that's how Marxism will always work, now and in the future.

have you heard about the new plan congress is working on? There will be 11 "gateways" illegal immigrants will have to clear in 11 years. These include learning english, not being unemployed for longer than 45 days, no crimes, criminal background check, etc. The thinking is that if they can accomplish that, then they will be contributing to our country and they will deserve to be citizens and at that point will become one.

Did we not already make a deal with the Mexicans in the 80's? They will never be satisfied we need to put our foot down now before this gets worse.

Also, Arizona is overwhelmed by racial tension. Not to mention half the speed limit sighns near the border towns are in KPH, and one actually has to look in some places for English directions.:sniper:

New Gothland, I don't even know where to start.

We are not illegal aliens. For that matter neither are the children of illegal aliens that are born in the US.

A reason who is behind bars. What you are trying to say isn't clear there.

You say as long as there is poverity in this country there is going to be crime, and gang related violence. Is it not possible illegals trying to live under the radar contribute ALOT to poverty, crime, gang related violence.

I'm not even going to mention Marxism because socialism doesn't work!!!


So movieng into a country that is not yours, killing the people that live there rape them,murder them, and ensalve them. Is ok.

The two concepts are the same thing, we were not allowed to come here. We never filled out a paper that said "Who wants to be a american!!"

Nethier did these "illegal aliens", also to futher destroy your logic.

If for some reason canada decided to invade us and they won. The push us off our lands, rape, murder, and kill us. I guess that will go over jsut fine with the rest of the world (sad part is it most likely would)

As for my rant about prisnoners, think of the reasons one might be a prisoner and the first place.

As for socialism it dose work. France has a socalist economy its doing fine. So dose that ex soviet satilite (name escapes me bella something) They are one fo the only eastern eroupean countrys that is not eaten by crime.

And the reason "illiegals" are contributing to crime is, hmm didnt i alread say this? yes i did. Because there are no jobs left for them to take.

Did we not already make a deal with the Mexicans in the 80's? They will never be satisfied we need to put our foot down now before this gets worse.
they key there is two parts.

employers. take some responsiblity and govt enforce the laws to see that they do.

Seal up the borders. There's not only endless Mexicans coming at the encouragement of their own president. There's all kinds of things coming over. Not to mention the terrorist types.

Another part of the plan is to double border agents, and to create a "virtual" wall. This will be patrolled by cameras, unmanned vehicles, etc., as opposed to a physical wall.

Tell me where I said that Mr. Weenie Wagger?

Right here:
Well if the white people go California would turn into what Mexico is now a third world nightmare.
And 'Mr. Weenie Wagger'? What are you, 3?

It a result of a corrupt Mexican government who does not give a shit about its people. Mexicans should stop waving their piece of shit flag protesting our laws and go back to their own country and fix it.

Did you read anything that I said about the modern world trade system favoring rich nations while keeping poor countries poor? For that matter, have you EVER considered that problem at all? You're presenting a highly uninformed opinion here. I don't doubt that their government is corrupt, but do you think our politicians are saints? A successful government draws its power from harnessing inherent human greed. That's why ours has been successful, so far. Checks and balances.

For that matter, put yourself in their place. You have this great nation where you can prosper and live a great life just north of you, or you can sit at home and work your ass off all your life to buy the most basic amenities. I'll bet that you'd do the same thing in their position.

Okay, Gothland, since you put it that way, I'm going to go take over capitol hill now, that way I can find that shiny, little red button Bush has hidden somewhere in there. It says don't touch unless it's an emergency and has a radioactive sign on it. Maybe it's like the Staples Easy Button and will fix the world's problems?

WEll my understanding is the society is oppressed under capitalism to become a socialist and classless society.

OKay, I see what you are saying. Maybe on paper it works. Like a law of consecration. The problem comes in with the people in control=corruption. That's always the case in history.


I can agree with you there, it will work. But people get power mad. The end up takeign a good idea and bending it so far in the opposite derection.

It can work, the way it is exsplained in the communist manifesto is its a slow digression. Things dont take place over the night (one of the main reason the boshlaviks failed)

Slowly over the cource of time the goverment is put to sleep, and the society slowly adapted to the correct utopia. There will allways be trouble makers, thats why the govemrent is "asleep" until the people need it again.

So in essance it would take a true demmocracy in order to get to a true communist society. Like i said its a slllooowww change. The Russians jumped the gun, and tried to basicaly say.

"ok your all communist now!" and because of that, is while in the end it went to the dogs.

Okay, I'd like to point out something that I learned while in college.

When Marxism is applied to a country, a sense of equality, in every aspect, is meant to take hold.

However, when this sense of equality is spread, some people just can't take it and become power-hungry dictators, like Stalin, or Mao Se Tung.

Suddenly, nothing is equal because you find out that there are leaders. Okay, well, if there are leaders, they are going to try and bend the law just enough to make it work in their personal favor, right?

Seems to me that's how Marxism will always work, now and in the future.

Damn straight. Here's a person who knows their stuff.

Okay, Gothland, since you put it that way, I'm going to go take over capitol hill now, that way I can find that shiny, little red button Bush has hidden somewhere in there. It says don't touch unless it's an emergency and has a radioactive sign on it. Maybe it's like the Staples Easy Button and will fix the world's problems?


*points to above post*

So movieng into a country that is not yours, killing the people that live there rape them,murder them, and ensalve them. Is ok.

The two concepts are the same thing, we were not allowed to come here. We never filled out a paper that said "Who wants to be a american!!"

Nethier did these "illegal aliens", also to futher destroy your logic.

If for some reason canada decided to invade us and they won. The push us off our lands, rape, murder, and kill us. I guess that will go over jsut fine with the rest of the world (sad part is it most likely would)

As for my rant about prisnoners, think of the reasons one might be a prisoner and the first place.

As for socialism it dose work. France has a socalist economy its doing fine. So dose that ex soviet satilite (name escapes me bella something) They are one fo the only eastern eroupean countrys that is not eaten by crime.

And the reason "illiegals" are contributing to crime is, hmm didnt i alread say this? yes i did. Because there are no jobs left for them to take.
don't take this the wrong way but I am totally laughing and crying at the same time.

The situation with Native Americans that you mention was not a good one. But no one alive did that. Also, every country in the world was taken from some other group of people at some point. We can't operate by saying , okay we moved here without permission, so screw it and we'll suffer because we have no ground to stop others from taking it from us. Where's the logic there, and what does that accomplish?

One might be a prisoner bc they committed an illegal act. This could include crossing a border illegally.

France has an umemployment rate of 10% and ayouth unemployment rate of 20%plus. The reason is their famed social net. haven't you been watching the news and seen all the protests and problems going on over there in the past while?

no jobs left for them to take? I believe one of the major points they are making is that only they will take jobs that Americans wont do. There are plenty of those jobs, enough that some people think our economy will collapse without illegals here to fill all of them.

one of my friends recently posted this on myspace

Recently the below has been posted by quite a few people that i know. I am sorry but it is ignorange. After looking over most of the text of the HR4437 law, and keeping in mind Bush's poposal for Immigration, i have seen that this poem, and the protest tomorrow is obsurd. Can you blame a country for trying to keep taxes down? Or trying to keep their country safe? Lowering inflation? Having general concern for her citizens? If so then this poem is right on Viva la revolution! If not then it seems a bit wrong to me. In my opinion this is EXACTLY what has needed to happen for a very very long time. Things have needed to change. The simple truth is that Illegal aliens, from anywhere, do nothing but hurt America's economy. The only exception to that is the core selection of migrant workers in central calfornia. This has been an ongoing argument since before Ceasar Chaves. But that is changing now, Bush has implemented a new plan that acts as a sister to this law. His plan makes is going to increase the yearly allowance of green card holders. And those who dont want to, or cant, wait can apply for temperary citizenship. That lasts up to three years, is renewable, and allows them to go back to their home country and return without fear of experation. so it is complete nonsense to revolt and scream and riot about something that is going to help both sides of the situation. Nobody from anywhere should be allowed to come into a country and rape its economy. and then take advantage of its welfare w/o paying taxes. So NO it is not wrong for this law to be passed in fact i would vote for it. KEEP OUR BORDERS SAFE. But more importantly don;t be ignorant. educate yourselves.


call us wetbacks or beaners
que son puros ruidos
you can't calm us down
you can't keep us quiet
you pass H.R. 4437
I swear to god we will riot.
we may be humble
we may be poor
but go against our people
we won't hesitate to start civil war.
we may not have papers
but we still pay our taxes
without our feria
the pinche U.S collapses!
I call out to mi gente
to stick up for the brown,
you ain't kicking us out,
we're sticking around!!!

PASS DIS IF UR A TRUE MEXICANO.......

no dont pass "dis" on if your a true mexicano....pass this on if you are truly ignorant.

and by the way...the law isn't against mexicans, it is against illegal aliens.

here is the whole proposal:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR04437:@@@L&summ2=m&

Thats were your wrong, Marxsim leads to communism.

Communism is the perfect govement, try reading the manifesto.

The Soviet union, China, North Korea, Cuba.

None of them are communist. Its all just a massive propaganda campain. "yeah we are communist.." <.< >.>

Then they have you exsicuted...*sigh*

Points finger*** laughs hysterically.
Are you some kind of demented comedian?

The way I see it:

They are not able to obtain sufficient jobs in their country, so they come to America because they can get work here. America is supposed to be the "land of opportunity," though every day it seems less and less.

If it was legal for them to just come, then they would not be criminals because they would not be breaking any laws.

There really is no reason why we should not let them come get work.. the work gets done and they can get paid. It's a win-win situation.

I at least think learing English should be mandatory, and how about instead of kicking all the illegals out, kick out the criminals, and if some people refuse to learn English, then kick them out too.:upyours:(Although, i don't see why people would'nt learn English, it could only benefit them, and i'm certainly not saying that they should't be allowed to speak their native language)Oh, and one more thing, if anyone thinks that the entire world would be happy about America falling,(and by anyone i mean BRAINWASHED LIBERAL MORONS!!!) then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, because true Americans like their country!!:upyours:

I can agree with you there, it will work. But people get power mad. The end up takeign a good idea and bending it so far in the opposite derection.

It can work, the way it is exsplained in the communist manifesto is its a slow digression. Things dont take place over the night (one of the main reason the boshlaviks failed)

Slowly over the cource of time the goverment is put to sleep, and the society slowly adapted to the correct utopia. There will allways be trouble makers, thats why the govemrent is "asleep" until the people need it again.

So in essance it would take a true demmocracy in order to get to a true communist society. Like i said its a slllooowww change. The Russians jumped the gun, and tried to basicaly say.

"ok your all communist now!" and because of that, is while in the end it went to the dogs.
as one for small govt, I am predicting the govt will never downsize, nor would they allow themselves to be phased out. It's all about power, no one will be giving that up soon.

As for the slow change, people are already going nuts over being in Iraq for less than 5 years. No one has that kind of patience or vision. I appreciate your point, however, but respectfully disagree that it's worthwhile or would ever work.

Points finger*** laughs hysterically.
Are you some kind of demented comedian?

Actually he's half right. The nations he mentioned are all far from being communist. A true communist nation is perfectly equal. The nations in question are dictatorial police states. NOT an actual feature of a communist government. They share only an economic system.

as one for small govt, I am predicting the govt will never downsize, nor would they allow themselves to be phased out. It's all about power, no one will be giving that up soon.

As for the slow change, people are already going nuts over being in Iraq for less than 5 years. No one has that kind of patience or vision. I appreciate your point, however, but respectfully disagree that it's worthwhile or would ever work.

Yea. That's the issue. Communism requires people to act in a perfectly selfless manner. Now, I dunno about the rest of you, but I don't know more than a few people who act that way.

The way I see it:

They are not able to obtain sufficient jobs in their country, so they come to America because they can get work here. America is supposed to be the "land of opportunity," though every day it seems less and less.

If it was legal for them to just come, then they would not be criminals because they would not be breaking any laws.

There really is no reason why we should not let them come get work.. the work gets done and they can get paid. It's a win-win situation.

We live in a world of capitalism. We give them jobs, they take our money and say, "Fuck you, gringo pueta!" They're ungrateful. As a matter of fact, any country that receives any aid from the U.S. and says "Fuck you, you suck!" is ungrateful.

Oh, and by taking our jobs, this puts U.S. Citizens in the poverty slot.

Lemme go find Bush's Easy Button...:D

Yea. That's the issue. Communism requires people to act in a perfectly selfless manner. Now, I dunno about the rest of you, but I don't know more than a few people who act that way.
Ha, If only Mother Theresa was still here. She'd be perfect for the job.

Ha, If only Mother Theresa was still here. She'd be perfect for the job.

lollerz

This thread is sickening.

This thread is sickening.

Why? There's def. a few people here being pretty outrageous...but what's inherently sickening about it?

This thread is sickening.

Oh, do put in your two cents.

I'd love to hear another intelligent individual speak their mind.

they key there is two parts.

employers. take some responsiblity and govt enforce the laws to see that they do.

Seal up the borders. There's not only endless Mexicans coming at the encouragement of their own president. There's all kinds of things coming over. Not to mention the terrorist types.

Another part of the plan is to double border agents, and to create a "virtual" wall. This will be patrolled by cameras, unmanned vehicles, etc., as opposed to a physical wall.

Hey I agree with everything you say we need to penalize the employers and everything else you listed. First we need to throw all the illegals out of the country and stop pandering to them. We should take people from Europe, Asia , and Africa and stop taking in so many Mexicans.

Have you been paying attention to americas situation? We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. we had a trade defficate (last time i checked) Of 6 trillion.

A socalist economy in a whole will never do as well as a caplitalist economy. Because a capitalist economy is built from the backs of the poor, only the rich will prosper.

A true socalist economy trys to level the playing fiels for eveyone, for exsample: Everyone is payed the same regardless of occupation. This destorys most of the rich poor divsion.

There will allways be the people that jsut spend spend spend, and those that save there money. So there will still be some up down diffrence. But it wont be as bad as.

"Ha ha! I have more money than i will ever need, and that guy lives under a newspaper!"


And i already said, there is no such thing as a "illegal immagent" in MO. Becausre if there is, all off our ansetores fall under that catigory.

As for the jobs no american will take, there are very few of those. Because im sure if you told the homless guy he could get payed enough money for food, by just picking fruit. Then dont you think he would take it.

The problem is, many of you dont look on both sides of the fence. As for communism why dotn you read the mannifesto. Instead of going by historys exsample.

Hisotory is a bad exsampke kiddies. Dont drink and drive!

Hey I agree with everything you say we need to penalize the employers and everything else you listed. First we need to throw all the illegals out of the country and stop pandering to them. We should take people from Europe, Asia , and Africa and stop taking in so many Mexicans.
It doesn't matter where they're from. It matters if they are being productive, law abiding, and contributing. at the same time it's way too late to kick all of the illegals out. Way too many. We have to balance observance of the laws with a just outcome for all the illegal families here now. Many of them are partially illegal, and partially born in the US, how do you split them up? I don't think you can.

Hey I agree with everything you say we need to penalize the employers and everything else you listed. First we need to throw all the illegals out of the country and stop pandering to them. We should take people from Europe, Asia , and Africa and stop taking in so many Mexicans.

excuse me? what's the difference?

Why? There's def. a few people here being pretty outrageous...but what's inherently sickening about it?

The topic itself is what I find disgusting.

Yes, let's throw out good, hard-working people who are providing for their families, and let the rats of society do the work for free!

Fuck that.

WAIT! A STUNNING REVELATION!

Whenever jobs are in short supply, so is intelligence!

Maybe there's a connection...:rolleyes:

WAIT! A STUNNING REVELATION!

Whenever jobs are in short supply, so is intelligence!

Maybe there's a connection...:rolleyes:

Enough with the flamebait. You can do it all you want, but I won't bite. Go ahead and keep making an ass of yourself.

Yea. That's the issue. Communism requires people to act in a perfectly selfless manner. Now, I dunno about the rest of you, but I don't know more than a few people who act that way.


people can only take so much abuse, after awhile they will react. As for the govemrent not being put to sleep.

Its run by the people as a whole, there is no "all powerful" figure to stand in the way.

If nobody has that kind of drive, look at the amish or the christains.

The amish seem to be driven

The chrsitans sure seem to be driven..Though im not quiet sure how,"Love they brother and thine enemy" turned into "Kill everyone!!"

Enough with the flamebait. You can do it all you want, but I won't bite. Go ahead and keep making an ass of yourself.

Actually, this next part might amaze you!

I WASN'T DIRECTING THAT COMMENT AT YOU!

You just assumed I did.

The topic itself is what I find disgusting.

Yes, let's throw out good, hard-working people who are providing for their families, and let the rats of society do the work for free!

Fuck that.


I agree, its jsut another Right wing/Left wing argument.

And what a suprise the left wing is out numbered..again.

Actually, this next part might amaze you!

I WASN'T DIRECTING THAT COMMENT AT YOU!

You just assumed I did.

Well, judging from the previous post, I thought as such. My mistake.

Have you been paying attention to americas situation? We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. we had a trade defficate (last time i checked) Of 6 trillion.

A socalist economy in a whole will never do as well as a caplitalist economy. Because a capitalist economy is built from the backs of the poor, only the rich will prosper.

A true socalist economy trys to level the playing fiels for eveyone, for exsample: Everyone is payed the same regardless of occupation. This destorys most of the rich poor divsion.
yes, we all know socialism is perfect. But for the third time: it will never happen. Stalinism wasn't a freak occurrence. People are just GREEDY. You can't expect all of them to live happily under a system where no one can get ahead. Also, I think that if you speak to most (analytical and intelligent) people who have lived under socialism you'll find that they they dissaproved of it. Look at the case study of the private gardens owned by kulaks during Collectivisation.

And i already said, there is no such thing as a "illegal immagent" in MO. Becausre if there is, all off our ansetores fall under that catigory.

Did our ancestors break any laws when they cheated the Native Americans out of their lands? That's rhetorical. It was morally reprehensible, but not illegal in any way. Please read the replies that people post.

Have you been paying attention to americas situation? We have one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. we had a trade defficate (last time i checked) Of 6 trillion.

A socalist economy in a whole will never do as well as a caplitalist economy. Because a capitalist economy is built from the backs of the poor, only the rich will prosper.

A true socalist economy trys to level the playing fiels for eveyone, for exsample: Everyone is payed the same regardless of occupation. This destorys most of the rich poor divsion.

There will allways be the people that jsut spend spend spend, and those that save there money. So there will still be some up down diffrence. But it wont be as bad as.

"Ha ha! I have more money than i will ever need, and that guy lives under a newspaper!"


And i already said, there is no such thing as a "illegal immagent" in MO. Becausre if there is, all off our ansetores fall under that catigory.

As for the jobs no american will take, there are very few of those. Because im sure if you told the homless guy he could get payed enough money for food, by just picking fruit. Then dont you think he would take it.

The problem is, many of you dont look on both sides of the fence. As for communism why dotn you read the mannifesto. Instead of going by historys exsample.

Hisotory is a bad exsampke kiddies. Dont drink and drive!
america's unemplymetn rate is in the 4% range. That is low. I don't know where you're getting your facts.

socialism doesn't work, you proved that by listing all the "socialist" countries of the world and saying they aren't really socialist because no one can correctly carry out the plan without corruption.

why should we level the playing fields. for example, Doesn't a doctor deserve to make more than a shoe shine boy. One field requires 10 plus years, the other 10 minutes.

I'll give you the defecit, with the caveat that we are at war, and we have to pay for that somehow.

there is such a thing as an illegal immigrant. it's someone that crosses the border without authorization. agree to disagree here, okay?

maybe a homeless guy would pick fruit. I don't know, it's his choice. At least he can if he wants to. maybe he'd rather sit under the newspaper. that's really an individual situation.

how do you know i haven't read the manifesto? that is the theory, and we have history to show us the success of it's application. It's liek a science experiment. We hypothesize it will work, but then we put it to the test, collect the data, analyze it, record it (history), and conclude that it doesn't work after all.

people can only take so much abuse, after awhile they will react. As for the govemrent not being put to sleep.

Its run by the people as a whole, there is no "all powerful" figure to stand in the way.

If nobody has that kind of drive, look at the amish or the christains.

The amish seem to be driven

The chrsitans sure seem to be driven..Though im not quiet sure how,"Love they brother and thine enemy" turned into "Kill everyone!!"

Actually, this isn't the first time that's happened.

Look at the crusades.

We live in a world of capitalism. We give them jobs, they take our money and say, "Fuck you, gringo pueta!" They're ungrateful. As a matter of fact, any country that receives any aid from the U.S. and says "Fuck you, you suck!" is ungrateful.

Oh, and by taking our jobs, this puts U.S. Citizens in the poverty slot.

Lemme go find Bush's Easy Button...:DThat's such Bullshit.

First off we're not talking about a country recieving aid form the US, we're talking about individuals looking for a better life. None of the immigrants I know, illegal or legal are ungrateful for just the opportunity to earn a living, none are asking for a handout.

And they certainly aren't driving any US citizens into poverty just by trying to scrape out a living here. They consume goods and services just like anyone else, maybe they aren't as conspicuous in their consumption, but they certainly don't have a negative impact on the economy. Placing blame on immigrants for economic woes is a favorite tactic of conservatives that shifts focus on the true problemsn that face our economy.

I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor. We do not need them we have millions of people in prison who could do the work. I say throw their sorry Mexican flag waving asses out of the country. If they think Mexico is so god dam great then we should send their sorry asses back. I am tired of driving by a bunch of stupid ass kids protesting blocking the roads and highways while they are waving their peice of shit Mexican flags. Send their sorry asses back and let prisoners pick the god dam fruit.

You know, the most interesting part of this debate is that if this same vital fervor was applied by Mexicans within the nation of Mexico, and aimed at the corrupt government, there would be NO need whatsoever for Mexicans to even come here and end up in protests to begin with. Could it just be that in reality, Mexicans couldn't care less about the conditions of Mexico, because it's that much easier to just come here and protest instead?........

I agree, its jsut another Right wing/Left wing argument.

And what a suprised the left wing is out numbered..again.

Sadly, yeah. Though that doesn't happen too often here...

...But when it does, oh god, is it embarrassing. Embarrassing in the sense that people can so willingly show their ignorance and stupidity.

The topic itself is what I find disgusting.

Yes, let's throw out good, hard-working people who are providing for their families, and let the rats of society do the work for free!

Fuck that.
wow, that was rational and well thought out!!

people can only take so much abuse, after awhile they will react. As for the govemrent not being put to sleep.

Its run by the people as a whole, there is no "all powerful" figure to stand in the way.

If nobody has that kind of drive, look at the amish or the christains.

The amish seem to be driven

The chrsitans sure seem to be driven..Though im not quiet sure how,"Love they brother and thine enemy" turned into "Kill everyone!!"
don't know what that last comment means. what are you talking about? anyway, the religion is better than the imperfect people that live it. Just because every Christian isn't perfectly following their religions precepts, doesn't mean they're bad, it means they're human.

socialism doesn't work

*Rest of post truncated; deemed unnecessary, as this already displays its shortcomings in both the factual and idealogical areas.

Yeah, I'm in a jerk mood at the moment, but so what? At least I'm having a good bit of fun.

I agree, its jsut another Right wing/Left wing argument.

And what a suprise the left wing is out numbered..again.
that's okay, if you want support for the left wing, check out some mainstream media.

that's okay, if you want support for the left wing, check out some mainstream media.

Hahahaha. Another American going on about how Democrats are Leftists. Fucking classic.

people can only take so much abuse, after awhile they will react. As for the govemrent not being put to sleep.

Its run by the people as a whole, there is no "all powerful" figure to stand in the way.

If nobody has that kind of drive, look at the amish or the christains.

The amish seem to be driven

The chrsitans sure seem to be driven..Though im not quiet sure how,"Love they brother and thine enemy" turned into "Kill everyone!!"

Christians? CHRISTIANS?!?! Being a christian has nothing to do with your personal ambition. The Kings of the Old World claimed that they were chosen by God to set up their dictatorial regimes.
As for the Amish...yes, they've come close, but people leave Amish communities, you know. Yes, there are selfless people, but selfish people will always crop up amongst them.
Let's assume your Utopian paradise comes to pass. Mere decades in, people begin to forget what the world was like before hand. One selfish person starts to consolidate power with a band of selfish followers (and a large one it would be). They sieze power and...BAM! Dictatorship. Congrats.

Well, judging from the previous post, I thought as such. My mistake.

That's all right.

Oh, and me? A conservative?

*laughs*

I thoroughly despise the conservative way of thinking. If anything, I use both sides of the plate and thensome.

And yes, it is their fault that U.S. citizens are getting fucked over. Mind telling me why I see more homeless white, black, and asian people on the streets nowadays? Even in a prestigious neighborhood such as Granite Bay, California?

Loss of jobs due to influx illegal immigration. Where do these illegals come from? Nearly seventy percent of them - if not, more - come from Mexico.

And 'Mr. Weenie Wagger'? What are you, 3?

3 1/2 thank you

For that matter, put yourself in their place. You have this great nation where you can prosper and live a great life just north of you, or you can sit at home and work your ass off all your life to buy the most basic amenities. I'll bet that you'd do the same thing in their position.

You just admitted my point we live in a great nation where we have the ability to prosper. So why are these idiots flying their piece of shit Mexican flag that represants a land that oppressed
them and burning the American flag that gives them a Job and a chance at life and spouting bull shit like the reconquista of the American south west so they can turn it into the hell hole they left.

america's unemplymetn rate is in the 4% range. That is low. I don't know where you're getting your facts.

socialism doesn't work, you proved that by listing all the "socialist" countries of the world and saying they aren't really socialist because no one can correctly carry out the plan without corruption.

why should we level the playing fields. for example, Doesn't a doctor deserve to make more than a shoe shine boy. One field requires 10 plus years, the other 10 minutes.

I'll give you the defecit, with the caveat that we are at war, and we have to pay for that somehow.

there is such a thing as an illegal immigrant. it's someone that crosses the border without authorization. agree to disagree here, okay?

maybe a homeless guy would pick fruit. I don't know, it's his choice. At least he can if he wants to. maybe he'd rather sit under the newspaper. that's really an individual situation.

how do you know i haven't read the manifesto? that is the theory, and we have history to show us the success of it's application. It's liek a science experiment. We hypothesize it will work, but then we put it to the test, collect the data, analyze it, record it (history), and conclude that it doesn't work after all.

America dose have a high unemployment rate. The full force of Mr. bushes damage is not been done yet.

He is slowly takeing money from the poor and giveing it to the rich. As for the doctor, shoe shine boy thing. Medical treatment would not cost alot of money, so he doesnt need to be payed alot.

This concept came from this. Most of the time the workers in the facotory would work there whole lives away for almost nothing. But they needed all the money they could get.

The were suffering while the bosses that owned said facotories were getting fat and never did a damn thing. The concept of everyone is payed the same, stops this from happaning. So nobody can no longer benifette from anothers pain.

Yes it has failed so far, but how many times has a product failed before they finally got the right ammount of chemicals to make it work. I belive it can work, God is the opiate of the masses. And this may seem cruel one of the main reaons why people are the way they are is relgion.

Agree to disagree.

Im off to bed kiddies.

Sadly, yeah. Though that doesn't happen too often here...

...But when it does, oh god, is it embarrassing. Embarrassing in the sense that people can so willingly show their ignorance and stupidity.
where are your brilliant points? what have you added besides silly little criticisms like what's quoted here? Let's hear the amazing left wing agenda that will save us all. Where is it?

That's all right.

Oh, and me? A conservative?

*laughs*

I thoroughly despise the conservative way of thinking. If anything, I use both sides of the plate and thensome.

And yes, it is their fault that U.S. citizens are getting fucked over. Mind telling me why I see more homeless white, black, and asian people on the streets nowadays? Even in a prestigious neighborhood such as Granite Bay, California?

Loss of jobs due to influx illegal immigration. Where do these illegals come from? Nearly seventy percent of them - if not, more - come from Mexico.

1: It's only their fault in a roundabout way. Is it their fault that their government doesn't care enough about them to do something about the dire state of their home country? Conversely, is it their fault that our own country has done nothing in regard to wage laws for illegal immigrants?

2: True. But, the illegal immigration wouldn't even be a problem if our government wasn't so ardently "free-market". You know, allowing out-sourcing for dime-a-day labor, which effectively takes more jobs away than illegal immigration.

You know, the most interesting part of this debate is that if this same vital fervor was applied by Mexicans within the nation of Mexico, and aimed at the corrupt government, there would be NO need whatsoever for Mexicans to even come here and end up in protests to begin with. Could it just be that in reality, Mexicans couldn't care less about the conditions of Mexico, because it's that much easier to just come here and protest instead?........The protests in the United States are largely being staged by Americans of Mexican descent. Not illegal immigrants as the OP paints them. In truth they have have just as much right to be here as he does. They are protesting the policies of their own Government. What is happening in Mexico is moot.

I agree, its jsut another Right wing/Left wing argument.

And what a suprise the left wing is out numbered..again.
I wasn't the first one to say left wing vs. right wing. Just repeating waht's already been said.

have you heard about the new plan congress is working on? There will be 11 "gateways" illegal immigrants will have to clear in 11 years. These include learning english, not being unemployed for longer than 45 days, no crimes, criminal background check, etc. The thinking is that if they can accomplish that, then they will be contributing to our country and they will deserve to be citizens and at that point will become one.
Agreed on part, BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK EVERY, SINGLE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL GO THROUGH THAT HONESTLY??? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO THINK?:rolleyes: (and since i know this is a sensitive subject, i would like to state that first of all, i'm not a racist pig, and second, if people are thinking what i'm saying is directed towards hispanic immigrants, your dead wrong. what i'm saying is directed toward any and every illegal immigrant, regardless of race:D)

where are your brilliant points? what have you added besides silly little criticisms like what's quoted here? Let's hear the amazing left wing agenda that will save us all. Where is it?

So far, all I've seen from you are rehashed viewpoints I've seen from other android conservatives dozens of times before. Old, out-dated, and quite frankly, boring.

You'll have to do better than this to get the response you're so desperately searching for.

America dose have a high unemployment rate. The full force of Mr. bushes damage is not been done yet.

He is slowly takeing money from the poor and giveing it to the rich. As for the doctor, shoe shine boy thing. Medical treatment would not cost alot of money, so he doesnt need to be payed alot.

This concept came from this. Most of the time the workers in the facotory would work there whole lives away for almost nothing. But they needed all the money they could get.

The were suffering while the bosses that owned said facotories were getting fat and never did a damn thing. The concept of everyone is payed the same, stops this from happaning. So nobody can no longer benifette from anothers pain.

Yes it has failed so far, but how many times has a product failed before they finally got the right ammount of chemicals to make it work. I belive it can work, God is the opiate of the masses. And this may seem cruel one of the main reaons why people are the way they are is relgion.

Agree to disagree.

Im off to bed kiddies.
ok, so we are basing this off of your vision of the future? As a final word, I don't know who indoctrinated you, but they did a thorough job.

But that's because there are too many white people. They should move them to Idaho.

I hope this is a joke, but if it's not, then this post alone should tell you why so many of us whites are fed up to the teeth with this. Mestizos come to this country in search of better lives? Fine, I'll buy that for a dollar....but be fekking greatfull when you get here!! We don't own you anything, and there is absolutely no way in hell that we whites could go to Mexico and do this down there.

Suggesting, even in jest, that whites abandon the towns and cities that they built and have maintained is ridiculous and exactly the reason why whites' blood is boiling over this.

3 1/2 thank you
lol, good to see we're not all losing our heads over this :p

You just admitted my point we live in a great nation where we have the ability to prosper. So why are these idiots flying their piece of shit Mexican flag that represants a land that oppressed
them and burning the American flag that gives them a Job and a chance at life and spouting bull shit like the reconquista of the American south west so they can turn it into the hell hole they left.

Yes. We do. That's the point. I never said that the protestors were being logical. I agree with you that their fervent nationalism doesn't make much sense. As with every group of protestors ever, they're extremists. I'm not arguing for militant fanatics. I strongly dissaprove of them. But not ALL of the illegal immigrants are fanatics. Most of them are just desperate people.

1: It's only their fault in a roundabout way. Is it their fault that their government doesn't care enough about them to do something about the dire state of their home country? Conversely, is it their fault that our own country has done nothing in regard to wage laws for illegal immigrants?

2: True. But, the illegal immigration wouldn't even be a problem if our government wasn't so ardently "free-market". You know, allowing out-sourcing for dime-a-day labor, which effectively takes more jobs away than illegal immigration.
isn't that an oxymoron or something? wage LAWS for ILLEGAL immigrants. why do we need to make laws for people that aren't supposed to be here?

ok, so we are basing this off of your vision of the future? As a final word, I don't know who indoctrinated you, but they did a thorough job.

Ah, so only by indoctrination can one come to the conclusion that Socialism is sound?

Keep in mind that about 22% of the global population has a decent living standard, while about 78% is in poverty. Under Capitalism.

Agreed on part, BUT DO YOU REALLY THINK EVERY, SINGLE, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WILL GO THROUGH THAT HONESTLY??? DID YOU EVEN TRY TO THINK?:rolleyes: (and since i know this is a sensitive subject, i would like to state that first of all, i'm not a racist pig, and second, if people are thinking what i'm saying is directed towards hispanic immigrants, your dead wrong. what i'm saying is directed toward any and every illegal immigrant, regardless of race:D)
No I don't. Just informing all of the recent plans. But I think another part of the plan is to deport all who are found not being honest. But first they have to find them.

isn't that an oxymoron or something? wage LAWS for ILLEGAL immigrants. why do we need to make laws for people that aren't supposed to be here?

They come here regardless of border laws, and our government and corporations know this. Still, they do nothing about the wages.

Face it --- wage laws for illegal immigrants would do a world of good for the current state of affairs.

1: It's only their fault in a roundabout way. Is it their fault that their government doesn't care enough about them to do something about the dire state of their home country? Conversely, is it their fault that our own country has done nothing in regard to wage laws for illegal immigrants?

2: True. But, the illegal immigration wouldn't even be a problem if our government wasn't so ardently "free-market". You know, allowing out-sourcing for dime-a-day labor, which effectively takes more jobs away than illegal immigration.

On point 1: You make a very good point. However, it is their fault for not getting off their ass and doing something about their own country. About our own...well, that's a whole different topic that is only linked into this topic because of those civil liberties unions.

One point 2: At least we agree on something, even if it is only a partial agreement. I still think this 'Free-market' crap needs to be flushed, because it's clogging the rest of the social drain pipe. Of course, both out-sourcing and illegal immigration go hand in hand for most situations.

So far, all I've seen from you are rehashed viewpoints I've seen from other android conservatives dozens of times before. Old, out-dated, and quite frankly, boring.

You'll have to do better than this to get the response you're so desperately searching for.

What's wrong? Why do we have to extract your viewpoint from you like a KGB man pulling teeth?

excuse me? what's the difference?

Its called diversity not having 90% of all immigrants from one country.

Its called diversity not having 90% of all immigrants from one country.

So you're saying that you have a race bias?

So far, all I've seen from you are rehashed viewpoints I've seen from other android conservatives dozens of times before. Old, out-dated, and quite frankly, boring.

You'll have to do better than this to get the response you're so desperately searching for.
Okay, don't flatter yourself. I'm not trying to get a flare up from you. I was on here before you and I was making the same points before you piped up in this thread. I am trying to make said points so in a non-confrontative manner. You may have noticed I am not flagrantly throwing around obscenity as you are in my efforts to do so. Sorry if you are bored. Maybe you feel I am rehashing because I happen to share opinons that are the same as other people. Maybe that tells you it's a majority opinon?

On point 1: You make a very good point. However, it is their fault for not getting off their ass and doing something about their own country. About our own...well, that's a whole different topic that is only linked into this topic because of those civil liberties unions.

One point 2: At least we agree on something, even if it is only a partial agreement. I still think this 'Free-market' crap needs to be flushed, because it's clogging the rest of the social drain pipe. Of course, both out-sourcing and illegal immigration go hand in hand for most situations.

1: While that may be true for some people, it's not true for most of them. Most of Mexico is in shambles, and their small towns are stuck in the past. Many places are so poor and behind the times that people can't get jobs. That's even true in Mexico City, which has well over twenty million people. And the crime rate in that city is beyond any other place on Earth. Mexico is broken, and that's that.

2: Point made, point taken.

I hope this is a joke, but if it's not, then this post alone should tell you why so many of us whites are fed up to the teeth with this. Mestizos come to this country in search of better lives? Fine, I'll buy that for a dollar....but be fekking greatfull when you get here!! We don't own you anything, and there is absolutely no way in hell that we whites could go to Mexico and do this down there.

Suggesting, even in jest, that whites abandon the towns and cities that they built and have maintained is ridiculous and exactly the reason why whites' blood is boiling over this.
why does it have to be white and brown? I am thinking in terms of American and illegally here.

HEY! Potarius, is that kind of language really that necessary during a cvilized debate? I believe that in a public access area, only ignorant, overly-loquacious, outspoken vermin need to use vulgarity and profanity to get a point out. any civilized person i hope would agree with me. Anyway, so i can put it in terms even you can understand, GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!

Maybe that tells you it's a majority opinon?

Aha! The classic "majority makes it right" approach.

Tell me... Were the majority "right" when they wanted slavery? Were they "right" when they wanted to keep blacks and whites segregated?

Honestly, I was hoping you could do better.

Ah, so only by indoctrination can one come to the conclusion that Socialism is sound?

Keep in mind that about 22% of the global population has a decent living standard, while about 78% is in poverty. Under Capitalism.
1. the whole globe isn't capitalist.
2. read the posts. I have already said to the other person that it works in theory, not in history. It's already been said. Okay, maybe it's sound - ON PAPER. You can't argue that it's worked. WEll I suppose you could, but how would you back that one up?

The topic itself is what I find disgusting.

Yes, let's throw out good, hard-working people who are providing for their families, and let the rats of society do the work for free!

Fuck that.

More like lets throw out the foriegn criminals and rehabilitate our own. I find you disgusting

HEY! Potarius, is that kind of language really that necessary during a cvilized debate? I believe that in a public access area, only ignorant, overly-loquacious, outspoken vermin need to use vulgarity and profanity to get a point out. any civilized person i hope would agree with me. Anyway, so i can put it in terms even you can understand, GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT OR SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!

Whoa whoa whoooooooa there, bucko. I used "fuck" once, I think. Maybe twice... Including this, possibly three times.

But I have, for the most part, kept in line with the topic.

1: While that may be true for some people, it's not true for most of them. Most of Mexico is in shambles, and their small towns are stuck in the past. Many places are so poor and behind the times that people can't get jobs. That's even true in Mexico City, which has well over twenty million people. And the crime rate in that city is beyond any other place on Earth. Mexico is broken, and that's that.

But even then, can't they even make some kind of effort instead of running away? I mean, c'mon! In comparison to those who live in poverty and those who live in wealth down there, the wealthy are out-numbered about 100 to 1. Since this IS the case, most of their military is part of that 100 in comparison to that 1. So, in all reality, they could win, but they're either too ignorant to see it, or they're just too damned scared.

Well I see that this is rapidly dissolving into a flame war :(

Good to see a few interesting and thoughful opinions on here tonight.

I hope this discussion has somehow enlightened each and every one of you :rolleyes:

'Night all!

Unfortunately I don't have that textbook at hand. I am talking simple proportions, fractions. If there are only 5% hispanic in Oregon, why are they represented at 30% of the prison population. YOur fact doesn't account for such a huge discrepancy. Also, Oregon is not a border state.

too bad you just made up that huge discrepancy. a quick bit of googling got me the real numbers. oregon is 8% latino (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/41000.html), and 9.76% of its inmates (http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/RESRCH/docs/inmate_profile.pdf) are latino. oh no!

moving on, this site (http://www.usimmigrationlawyers.com/resource.cfm/state/or/article/11551/90000-Illegal-Aliens-Resided-In-Oregon.html) says that the irs estimated there were 90,000 illegal immigrants in oregon as of 2000. let's pretend that that number has only grown to 100,000, just for kicks. this site (http://www.usbc.org/profiles/2004profiles/0204oregon.htm) claims that the oregon corrections dept. says that there were 716 inmates who immigration officials wanted to deport as of this feb. that gives a grand total rate of 716 per 100,000 of illegal immigrants incarcerated in oregon. less if my additional 10,000 illegal immigrants over 6 years is an underestimate.

and then, of course, we'd need to check the corrections rate for the entire state - corrections rather than straight incarceration because illegal immigrants are not particularly likely to be out on probation once in the system. looky that (http://www.nicic.org/StateCorrectionsStatistics/OR.htm), it's fucking 3,082 per 100,000. crazy.

and since the female prison population is like 10% or less, and illegals are disproportionately male anyway, we might as well take a look at male incarceration rates, just for the hell of it. human rights watch (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Table5.pdf) gives oregon a rate of 535 per 100,000 white males incarcerated, and 4758 per 100,000 black males. 700ish per 100,000 illegal immigrants makes them closer to the white population than the black population, despite the known bias in policing, prosecuting, and sentencing aimed at latinos that typically puts them somewhat closer to the black population incarceration rate.

it looks like, if anything, illegals keep their heads down and stay out of trouble. exactly what all the real data ever collected has said.

1. the whole globe isn't capitalist.


BULL SHIT!

China may claim to be communist, but they hopped on the capitalist band wagon immediately after Chairman Mao went six feet under!

Aha! The classic "majority makes it right" approach.

Tell me... Were the majority "right" when they wanted slavery? Were they "right" when they wanted to keep blacks and whites segregated?

Honestly, I was hoping you could do better.
They were right when they repealed it. What's with all the challenges when you have yet to state your plan here. why keep accusing me of "classic" approaches? I'm not trying to befuddle you, I"m trying to make points. Where's yours?

1. the whole globe isn't capitalist.
2. read the posts. I have already said to the other person that it works in theory, not in history. It's already been said. Okay, maybe it's sound - ON PAPER. You can't argue that it's worked. WEll I suppose you could, but how would you back that one up?

1: It's true that it isn't, but the global economy is de facto Capitalist. We have corporations in the industrialised nations with factories and distribution centers in developing countries, where the outsourced jobs are. The workers there get paid next to nothing; some even work in sweatshops. Plenty of them are children.

2: It has worked well in history. The Paris Commune, for example. The U.S.S.R., North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and China were and are not Communist. They're Totalitarian states that control almost every aspect of the citizens' lives. They started with Marx's putrid, perverted form of "Communism", one that would never work in any time or place.

Along with that, all of these states had/have a state-run Capitalist economic system. The workers control nothing --- the government controls everything.

They were right when they repealed it. What's with all the challenges when you have yet to state your plan here. why keep accusing me of "classic" approaches? I'm not trying to befuddle you, I"m trying to make points. Where's yours?

I'll make my points when you write an original thought.

There's a difference between morality and law.

indeed. morality is vastly more important and are the standard by which laws should be judged. a standard which current immigration law (and all the proposed 'permanent underclass' ones too) fail miserably.

too bad you just made up that huge discrepancy. a quick bit of googling got me the real numbers. oregon is 8% latino (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/41000.html), and 9.76% of its inmates (http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/RESRCH/docs/inmate_profile.pdf) are latino. oh no!

moving on, this site (http://www.usimmigrationlawyers.com/resource.cfm/state/or/article/11551/90000-Illegal-Aliens-Resided-In-Oregon.html) says that the irs estimated there were 90,000 illegal immigrants in oregon as of 2000. let's pretend that that number has only grown to 100,000, just for kicks. this site (http://www.usbc.org/profiles/2004profiles/0204oregon.htm) claims that the oregon corrections dept. says that there were 716 inmates who immigration officials wanted to deport as of this feb. that gives a grand total rate of 716 per 100,000 of illegal immigrants incarcerated in oregon. less if my additional 10,000 illegal immigrants over 6 years is an underestimate.

and then, of course, we'd need to check the corrections rate for the entire state - corrections rather than straight incarceration because illegal immigrants are not particularly likely to be out on probation once in the system. looky that (http://www.nicic.org/StateCorrectionsStatistics/OR.htm), it's fucking 3,082 per 100,000. crazy.

and since the female prison population is like 10% or less, and illegals are disproportionately male anyway, we might as well take a look at male incarceration rates, just for the hell of it. human rights watch (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Table5.pdf) gives oregon a rate of 535 per 100,000 white males incarcerated, and 4758 per 100,000 black males. 700ish per 100,000 illegal immigrants makes them closer to the white population than the black population, despite the known bias in policing, prosecuting, and sentencing aimed at latinos that typically puts them somewhat closer to the black population incarceration rate.

it looks like, if anything, illegals keep their heads down and stay out of trouble. exactly what all the real data ever collected has said.
sorry, didn't make up those numbers, quoting news radio program today.

But even then, can't they even make some kind of effort instead of running away? I mean, c'mon! In comparison to those who live in poverty and those who live in wealth down there, the wealthy are out-numbered about 100 to 1. Since this IS the case, most of their military is part of that 100 in comparison to that 1. So, in all reality, they could win, but they're either too ignorant to see it, or they're just too damned scared.

You obviously don't know what being poor and disadvantaged is like...

I've been to Mexico. It's amazing that people can even live in the small border towns, much less feed their families. Turning Mexico around isn't as easy as you think, and if it's going to happen, it'll take generations.

The protests in the United States are largely being staged by Americans of Mexican descent. Not illegal immigrants as the OP paints them. In truth they have have just as much right to be here as he does. They are protesting the policies of their own Government. What is happening in Mexico is moot.

Bullshit you have no idea what you are talking about. I have seen nothing but spanglish speaking illegals at all the protest around here. Never mind that they are waving that piece of shit Mexican flag every where.

sorry, didn't make up those numbers, quoting news radio program today.

Oh, the irony...

...See, what we've got here is a classic case of the radio program fudging the information to please its rather scrubby audience. Obviously, they did their job.

sorry, didn't make up those numbers, quoting news radio program today.

which, in turn, made them up

that piece of shit Mexican flag

http://www.maps-of-mexico.com/guerrero-state-mexico/guerrero-mexico-state-flag-bandera-estado.gif

1: It's true that it isn't, but the global economy is de facto Capitalist. We have corporations in the industrialised nations with factories and distribution centers in developing countries, where the outsourced jobs are. The workers there get paid next to nothing; some even work in sweatshops. Plenty of them are children.

2: It has worked well in history. The Paris Commune, for example. The U.S.S.R., North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and China were and are not Communist. They're Totalitarian states that control almost every aspect of the citizens' lives. They started with Marx's putrid, perverted form of "Communism", one that would never work in any time or place.

Along with that, all of these states had/have a state-run Capitalist economic system. The workers control nothing --- the government controls everything.
so you are saying it hasn't been tested yet? bc the exaples you listed aren't really true examples? we did talk about that with some other fellow already. am I understanding you correctlY?

sorry, didn't make up those numbers, quoting news radio program today.
Who were you quoting? Michael Savage?

Actually, Potarius, if you read back a few pages, I do understand what they go through.

And that is a very good point. Of course it'll take generations, but it took generations to make this country what it is now, am I right? Put a little elbow grease into it, and you can make anything happen.

Hell, Hitler took over nearly a whole seventh of the world on his own. I'm sure Mexico could turn their backwards society forward again.

Bullshit you have no idea what you are talking about. I have seen nothing but spanglish speaking illegals at all the protest around here. Never mind that they are waving that piece of shit Mexican flag every where.So because someone can speak spanish they're automatically an illegal? I bet you never got out of your car. Your bullshit is wasted on me, I've seen them in person too.

so you are saying it hasn't been tested yet? bc the exaples you listed aren't really true examples? we did talk about that with some other fellow already. am I understanding you correctlY?

Did you even read my post thoroughly? There have been places where real Communism has been tried and tested. The Paris Commune in the 15th (or was it the 16th?) century, and Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

Both worked quite well... Though Spain was quickly taken by the Fascists.

I'll make my points when you write an original thought.
back to that again? well this is cyclical and seems to be a waste of time. I am not trying to convert you, no matter how badly you seem to want me to. I am stating my opinons independently of your remarks. If you have already heard them, fine, someone out there thinks the same way I do. What's your plan then?

Actually, Potarius, if you read back a few pages, I do understand what they go through.

And that is a very good point. Of course it'll take generations, but it took generations to make this country what it is now, am I right? Put a little elbow grease into it, and you can make anything happen.

Hell, Hitler took over nearly a whole seventh of the world on his own. I'm sure Mexico could turn their backwards society forward again.

They could, no doubt. But, I'm sure a lot of these immigrants have lost all hope for their country. And, truthfully, it's not hard to see why.

Who were you quoting? Michael Savage?

*practically throws up his dinner after laughing so hard*

which, in turn, made them up
fine, aren't 99% of all stats made up? i didn't mean to start a stats conv.

Bullshit you have no idea what you are talking about. I have seen nothing but spanglish speaking illegals at all the protest around here. Never mind that they are waving that piece of shit Mexican flag every where.

onwards aryan brother!

seriously, why bother pretending?

sorry, didn't make up those numbers, quoting news radio program today.
That's a pretty poor response.

I don't see what people's problem is with "illegals" anyway. These are people who do the one thing that one needs to become American: They are willing to work hard to achieve their goal.

That's the American Dream, guys. They are living it.

Now what, because your privileged asses have been born in between some arbitrary lines, you think you have the right to tell others what to do with their life, the product of their labour?

What's your plan then?

No. You failed to entertain me, so you're not getting a present this morning.

*practically throws up his dinner after laughing so hard*
no but I am a fan. sorry but I listen to conservative radio. I also listen to NPR if that helps any of you feel better.

That's a pretty poor response.

I don't see what people's problem is with "illegals" anyway. These are people who do the one thing that one needs to become American: They are willing to work hard to achieve their goal.

That's the American Dream, guys. They are living it.

Now what, because your privileged asses have been born in between some arbitrary lines, you think you have the right to tell others what to do with their life, the product of their labour?

Right. Fucking. On.

lol, good to see we're not all losing our heads over this :p



Yes. We do. That's the point. I never said that the protestors were being logical. I agree with you that their fervent nationalism doesn't make much sense. As with every group of protestors ever, they're extremists. I'm not arguing for militant fanatics. I strongly dissaprove of them. But not ALL of the illegal immigrants are fanatics. Most of them are just desperate people.

I agree with you but their are around 4billion people living in poverty and its a sad thing. We however can not take in every one in the world it would destroy America and why do we have to take in only Mexican why can we not get Asians, Europeans and Africans why do we have to have a majority of Mexican immigrants.

As a final word before i leave, remember, we are all americans here, regardless of race, religion, or political opinion. So, try to treat each other with at least some courtesy, no matter how annoying or offensive a telegram or note might be. In conclusion, may God(or whatever deity you believe in) protect America. PACIS!PACES!FRIEDE! PAIX! MILCZENIE! PACE! And in whatever other language that i forgot,PEACE!



(P.S. if anyone wants to telgram me, feel free to):D

Did you even read my post thoroughly? There have been places where real Communism has been tried and tested. The Paris Commune in the 15th (or was it the 16th?) century, and Spain during the Spanish Civil War.

Both worked quite well... Though Spain was quickly taken by the Fascists.
I don't know about the Paris Commune. I didn't want to misunderstnad, just asking for clarification, bc we already covered some of that earlier.

I agree with you but their are around 4billion people living in poverty and its a sad thing. We however can not take in every one in the world it would destroy America and why do we have to take in only Mexican why can we not get Asians, Europeans and Africans why do we have to have a majority of Mexican immigrants.

I get it. You just hate Mexicans.

There wasn't more to your bullshit afterall. Shame on you.

So you're saying that you have a race bias?

Yes immigrants should come from all over the world not just Mexico.

They could, no doubt. But, I'm sure a lot of these immigrants have lost all hope for their country. And, truthfully, it's not hard to see why.

And at that point, both of us can agree and finish this part.

My only problem with illegal immigrants is when they ask for Constitutional representation when they've obviously broken a Federal law by crossing the border without a visa or without trying to apply for citizenship.

It disturbs me to think that a bunch of Mexican nationalists claim they want to be Americans when all they do is spout out negative comments about it. It's disgusting and outright laughable.

I agree with you but their are around 4billion people living in poverty and its a sad thing. We however can not take in every one in the world it would destroy America and why do we have to take in only Mexican why can we not get Asians, Europeans and Africans why do we have to have a majority of Mexican immigrants.You're an American by an accident of birth skippy, why does that give you some divine right to live better than 4 out of 5 of your fellow inhabitants of this rock we ride through space. Time to grow up and realize that borders are imaginary lines on the ground and we're all on this planet together. Stop drawing lines in the sandbox saying the rest of the kids can't play with your Tonka trucks.

Yes immigrants should come from all over the world not just Mexico.
well obviously mroe will come from mex bc of it's proximity to the US. the point is illegality, not race or ethnicity.

Yes immigrants should come from all over the world not just Mexico.

We get immigrants from all over the world, Einstein. It's just that Mexico is one of our closest neighbors, and that country happens to be in shambles. Canada is pristine, so there are virtually no illegal immigrants from there.

That's a pretty poor response.

it's ok, i'm sure the census people and oregon dept of corrections are just making things up too, to cover up the monumental problm of illegal immigrant criminality that obviously must exist (what with them being lesser humans and all)

You're an American by an accident of birth skippy, why does that give you some divine right to live better than 4 out of 5 of your fellow inhabitants of this rock we ride through space. Time to grow up and realize that borders are imaginary lines on the ground and we're all on this planet together. Stop drawing lines in the sandbox saying the rest of the kids can't play with your Tonka trucks.
well wht makes America so special? why does everyone want to come here? If borders are invisible lines that mean nothing, why are they clamoring to cross them? everyone's welcome to play in the sandbox, if they can follow the rules

And at that point, both of us can agree and finish this part.

My only problem with illegal immigrants is when they ask for Constitutional representation when they've obviously broken a Federal law by crossing the border without a visa or without trying to apply for citizenship.

It disturbs me to think that a bunch of Mexican nationalists claim they want to be Americans when all they do is spout out negative comments about it. It's disgusting and outright laughable.

1: Agreed.

2: Well, there are a lot of illegal immigrants in my town, and to be honest, they're scared to death of a lot of the people here. It's like that for most illegal immigrants in most areas, and that's why they want those ammendments. It's not really a bad thing. They just want the opportunity to have a good life, and let their kids grow up healthy with the potential to go places --- something they never would've had in Mexico.

2: I'll say this... There are idiots in every group of people in every part of the world. They're far from the majority.

it's ok, i'm sure the census people and oregon dept of corrections are just making things up too, to cover up the monumental problm of illegal immigrant criminality that obviously must exist (what with them being lesser humans and all)
yeah i don't know. maybe you misunderstood the stats. or maybe the source I got them from did. who knows. I am going to finish this little argumetn with a shrug.

a weary shrug

well wht makes America so special? why does everyone want to come here? If borders are invisible lines that mean nothing, why are they clamoring to cross them? everyone's welcome to play in the sandbox, if they can follow the rulesHave you been paying attention? The rule they keep getting accused of breaking is the one saying they can't come here.:headbang:

This will affect your final grade, you're going to have to stay after class and do make-up work.

Have you been paying attention? The rule they keep getting accused of breaking is the one saying they can't come here.:headbang:

This will affect your final grade, your going to have to stay after class and do make-up work.

Hahahaha. I actually laughed out loud!

*hands you a special cookie*

Ooooh yeah, it's "special". :D

Have you been paying attention? The rule they keep getting accused of breaking is the one saying they can't come here.:headbang:

This will affect your final grade, you're going to have to stay after class and do make-up work.
first of all the questions are rhetorical.

secondly, THERE IS NO RULE SAYING THEY CAN'T COME HERE LEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!

There is, however a rule that they can't come ILLEGALLY. You see, there's a difference there. What do you have against people putting int he time and effort to get here legally? I know it can be done, I know people who have done it. And once they get here, they have a better quality of life bc they are legal and have all the rights, responsiblities, and privileges due the rest of us.

Okay, boys and girls, I'm off to bed.

Thanks for givin' me a mental workout.

Catch y'all later.

So because someone can speak spanish they're automatically an illegal?

Well if they are not an illegal they should certainly be shipped the hell out of here because they obviously do not want to assimilate.

Have you been paying attention? The rule they keep getting accused of breaking is the one saying they can't come here.:headbang:

This will affect your final grade, you're going to have to stay after class and do make-up work.
Yeah, that was cute, but please see the difference here.

legal vs. illegal.

that's all I am trying to say

Well if they are not an illegal they should certainly be shipped the hell out of here because they obviously do not want to assimilate.
Assimilate into what? The whole point of the US is that people don't assimilate.

Assimilate into what? The whole point of the US is that people don't assimilate.
This is really the first time a group of immigrants want to come here and not assimilate.

In the old days, for example, take the chinese or irish. They wanted to assimlite, but couldn't. People put signs up in their stores that said things like, Irish need not apply. they weren't allowed to assimilate immediately, but of course they eventually did.

Today there are many immigrants who do not wish to learn english or the skills we need to get by here. But today it's by their choice mostly. And I"m not specifically referring to Mexicans, though there are obviously more of them than other countries coming here.

Well if they are not an illegal they should certainly be shipped the hell out of here because they obviously do not want to assimilate.What are you, the freakin' Borg? America is a nation of immigrants or haven't you heard? Despite your objections there still is no qualification for entry saying you have to deny your heritage and remake yourself into a caricature of the wholesome American family of the fifties.

What are you, the freakin' Borg? America is a nation of immigrants or haven't you heard? Despite your objections there still is no qualification for entry saying you have to deny your heritage and remake yourself into a caricature of the wholesome American family of the fifties.
that's a bit extreme. I don't think that's what they're saying. but isn't it helpful to learn english? how can you get along without that skill in the US? learning it helps both parties.

onwards aryan brother!

seriously, why bother pretending?

Laughs at commie girlie man. (I also have Mexican flag toilet paper.) seriously, I do not understand how it does not make anyone sick to see these idiots burning the US flag and then flying the the flag of a corrupt opressive government that keeps its people in poverty. How the Mexicans can call for the reconquista of the American southwest and than call me a racist for getting mad about it.
Very, Very funny :p

Yeah, that was cute, but please see the difference here.

legal vs. illegal.

that's all I am trying to sayAnd all I'm saying is they are not violating any morals or commiting criminal acts. Your label of illegal is sole based upon them being on what you percieve is the wrong side of what is essentially an imaginary line.

that's a bit extreme. I don't think that's what they're saying. but isn't it helpful to learn english? how can you get along without that skill in the US? learning it helps both parties. Despite what Freakyjsin would like to (and have others) believe, he has no evidence that the protesters he despises can not in fact speak English. The one's I talked to certainly could. His narrow mind has a hard time grasping the concept that, since he witnessed them speaking Spanish, they could also speak English.

I get it. You just hate Mexicans.

There wasn't more to your bullshit afterall. Shame on you.

I get it. You got the hammer and sickle up your you know what. You also like to call any one a racist who
doesnt agree with you.

i find all this passion about the legal status of some paperwork to be utterly incomprehensible.

normally americans love to complain about the utter stupidity of the paperwork they have to fill out, and get pissed off when it turns out that their paperwork isn't correct and they aren't allowed to hold their garage sale or whatever.

And all I'm saying is they are not violating any morals or commiting criminal acts. Your label of illegal is sole based upon them being on what you percieve is the wrong side of what is essentially an imaginary line.
is it immoral to break the law? i vote yes.

it isn't my label. It's the label made by the individuals we elected to represent all of us. If you don't like it, run for office, write a letter to your congressman, move to mexico.

It's not MY perception, it's the laws of this country!!!

It's not an imaginary line, it's the border of a sovern nation.

do you even like this country? Just wondering.

hmmm, i totally agree. i'm from australia, and we have enough prisoners that could do the work for us. yet our government grants thousands of visas each year because it says we need the labour? it's crazy.

hmmm, i totally agree. i'm from australia, and we have enough prisoners that could do the work for us. yet our government grants thousands of visas each year because it says we need the labour? it's crazy.
yeah, common sense has totally gone out the window, along with black and white, right and wrong, and a sense of shame when it is deserved.

This is really the first time a group of immigrants want to come here and not assimilate.
Hardly. I can very much imagine that the same would have been said about Chinese, Irish or Italian people in their times.

The same thing is being said about the Turks in Germany at the moment.
Of course, somehow everyone conveniently forgot that the exact same lines about them never wanting to integrate, and parallel societies and all that, were used before - when the Italians came in the sixties and seventies. And guess what, they integrated, even though it took a few years.

they weren't allowed to assimilate immediately, but of course they eventually did.
And considering how many Mexicans have assimiliated already, I don't see what the issue is.
The problem there might be right now in some areas is one of second-generation immigrants with an identity crisis, which is (lo and behold) the same as in Europe.

Today there are many immigrants who do not wish to learn english or the skills we need to get by here. But today it's by their choice mostly.
Find me some examples. I think it's ridiculous to claim this, because not only is some sort of language proficiency part of the paperwork to get in (if they're legal immigrants), but the south-western part of the US is largely bilingual anyway.
Not only that, but the children of immigrants will learn English in school, even if their parents may forever have trouble with it (which is also understandable - my parents will never be fully fluent in English either).

Laughs at commie girlie man. (I also have Mexican flag toilet paper.) seriously, I do not understand how it does not make anyone sick to see these idiots burning the US flag and then flying the the flag of a corrupt opressive government that keeps its people in poverty. How the Mexicans can call for the reconquista of the American southwest and than call me a racist for getting mad about it.
Very, Very funny :p
Gee, the only people I know of talking about reconquista are 1) fringe mexican groups, 2) hardline aryan nation racists, and 3) Michelle Malkin. "The Mexicans," no matter how you try to lump everyone in, are not calling for reconquista.

You're an American by an accident of birth skippy, why does that give you some divine right to live better than 4 out of 5 of your fellow inhabitants of this rock we ride through space. Time to grow up and realize that borders are imaginary lines on the ground and we're all on this planet together. Stop drawing lines in the sandbox saying the rest of the kids can't play with your Tonka trucks.

Hey skippy you do not understand that my ancestors built a great country and illegals are threatening what makes it great (the middle class).

Its time for you to grow up and take your ass across that imaginary line into Mexico and burn the Mexican flag and call for the fall of the Mexican government and see how long you will be alive on that side of the sand box.

is it immoral to break the law? i vote yes.

it isn't my label. It's the label made by the individuals we elected to represent all of us. If you don't like it, run for office, write a letter to your congressman, move to mexico.

It's not MY perception, it's the laws of this country!!!

It's not an imaginary line, it's the border of a sovern nation.

do you even like this country? Just wondering.Laws and morals should never be confused with each other. I don't need your advice on political activism, I do my share to try to change what I percieve is wrong with this country, have been for thirty years.

Borders and sovereignity are good excuses to deny and kill others. I love my country but I place more priority on the good of mankind and the world as a whole than I do on the good of my country. All humans should.

Hey skippy you do not understand that my ancestors built a great country and illegals are threatening what makes it great (the middle class).

Its time for you to grow up and take your ass across that imaginary line into Mexico and burn the Mexican flag and call for the fall of the Mexican government and see how long you will be alive on that side of the sand box.
The Bush administration is doing far more to destroy the middle class than illegal immigrants are. In fact, conservative economic philosophies dating back 25 years to the Reagan administration are what has deecimated the middle class in the US, so take your fucking racist bullshit and jam it.

Hey skippy you do not understand that my ancestors built a great country and illegals are threatening what makes it great (the middle class).

Its time for you to grow up and take your ass across that imaginary line into Mexico and burn the Mexican flag and call for the fall of the Mexican government and see how long you will be alive on that side of the sand box.So you're an American Indian?

No?

then STFU...

Being here first doesn't make you special. Just hypocritical.

Hardly. I can very much imagine that the same would have been said about Chinese, Irish or Italian people in their times.

The same thing is being said about the Turks in Germany at the moment.
Of course, somehow everyone conveniently forgot that the exact same lines about them never wanting to integrate, and parallel societies and all that, were used before - when the Italians came in the sixties and seventies. And guess what, they integrated, even though it took a few years.


And considering how many Mexicans have assimiliated already, I don't see what the issue is.
The problem there might be right now in some areas is one of second-generation immigrants with an identity crisis, which is (lo and behold) the same as in Europe.


Find me some examples. I think it's ridiculous to claim this, because not only is some sort of language proficiency part of the paperwork to get in (if they're legal immigrants), but the south-western part of the US is largely bilingual anyway.
Not only that, but the children of immigrants will learn English in school, even if their parents may forever have trouble with it (which is also understandable - my parents will never be fully fluent in English either).
I live in Utah, not a border state. There's way more kids in the schools who only speak spanish than we can handle. And their parents don't learn english either, making it impossible to communicte to the families.

and yeah, I was saying the earlier groups of immigrants did what they could to assimilate, even though at the time resident americans did not want them here. at least those groups tried to assimilate, and they have done so by now. I'm saying that today, lots of people don't bother to try to assimilate, as evidenced by my experience mentioned above in our schools.

What are you, the freakin' Borg? America is a nation of immigrants or haven't you heard? Despite your objections there still is no qualification for entry saying you have to deny your heritage and remake yourself into a caricature of the wholesome American family of the fifties.

There is an idea we should put cybernetic implants in the illegals. I might go for that good suggestion.

Hey skippy you do not understand that my ancestors built a great country and illegals are threatening what makes it great (the middle class).
a) The ones who built the US were not middle-class.
b) "Your ancestors" built. Not you. Lazy Bum.
c) These people are actually working, and working hard, to earn their living. They are doing exactly what "your ancestors" were doing - yet you disagree?

Despite what Freakyjsin would like to (and have others) believe, he has no evidence that the protesters he despises can not in fact speak English. The one's I talked to certainly could. His narrow mind has a hard time grasping the concept that, since he witnessed them speaking Spanish, they could also speak English.

Do you have any statistics to support this? Did you take a personal poll of all the protestors.

I live in Utah, not a border state. There's way more kids in the schools who only speak spanish than we can handle. And their parents don't learn english either, making it impossible to communicte to the families.
I can do little more than call bullshit on this. But since you can't provide evidence to support your point, and I can't prove that you're lying, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Laws and morals should never be confused with each other. I don't need your advice on political activism, I do my share to try to change what I percieve is wrong with this country, have been for thirty years.

Borders and sovereignity are good excuses to deny and kill others. I love my country but I place more priority on the good of mankind and the world as a whole than I do on the good of my country. All humans should.
the good of mankind, might be to strengthen all countries. okay I'm stopping here actually bc there will not be a conssensus, the disagreement is too fundamental. But laws are morals are closely related. Laws are made largely to reflect a society's morals. for ex, we all think murder is bad, morally wrong, so we make a law against it to punish offenders.
I;m not trying to advise you on political activism, just saying that we need to abide by the laws, or change them.

I can do little more than call bullshit on this. But since you can't provide evidence to support your point, and I can't prove that you're lying, we'll have to agree to disagree.
well that can be said for every statement on this thread. what 's the point of this? we are all just insomniacs I guess bc nothing is being heard here. later.

Gee, the only people I know of talking about reconquista are 1) fringe mexican groups, 2) hardline aryan nation racists, and 3) Michelle Malkin.

and you, sir, are no michelle malkin

I live in Utah

ah, there's your problem then

ah, there's your problem then
hold up. i was going to leave but i can't let this one slide. utah is GREAT! my eyes just glaze over when i hear things like that. People have no idea, just misconceptions and stereotypes about this place.

Gee, the only people I know of talking about reconquista are 1) fringe mexican groups, 2) hardline aryan nation racists, and 3) Michelle Malkin. "The Mexicans," no matter how you try to lump everyone in, are not calling for reconquista.

Bullshit MECHA is in every highschool in california their motto is"For the race every thing for those outside the race nothing" You have no idea what you are talking about.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html

hold up. i was going to leave but i can't let this one slide. utah is GREAT! my eyes just glaze over when i hear things like that. People have no idea, just misconceptions and stereotypes about this place.

oh, it'll probably be nice, once the mormons are hopelessly outnumbered and the church loses all influence.

Bullshit MECHA is in every highschool in california their motto is"For the race every thing for those outside the race nothing" You have no idea what you are talking about.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html
yikes, that's scary. is that true? I never heard that before. I am worrying when it's all about race.

oh, it'll probably be nice, once the mormons are hopelessly outnumbered and the church loses all influence.
well it is nice. are you from here? you sound like you are mormon because you said "the church" without saying which church. that's a classic sign usually.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

onwards, aryan brother! (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175)

take your fucking racist bullshit and jam it.

OOH your knee jerk left wing name calling gives me a hard on keep it up this is better than porn.

a) The ones who built the US were not middle-class.
b) "Your ancestors" built. Not you. Lazy Bum.
c) These people are actually working, and working hard, to earn their living. They are doing exactly what "your ancestors" were doing - yet you disagree?

My ancestors got free education, they got free health care, they could get on welfare. I did not know this you should show me the link.

are you from here? you sound like you are mormon because you said "the church" without saying which church. that's a classic sign usually.

nah, i'm from chicago. but i've lived in idaho and a good friend of mine is an ex-mormon originally from salt lake city.

Okay I'll take silence as yes.

this seems to be degrading into ridiculousness and this talk appears to be over.

nah, i'm from chicago. but i've lived in idaho and a good friend of mine is an ex-mormon originally from salt lake city.
so you know a little about things here. i hope you aren't getting ALL your information about utah from someone who's no longer a mormon. There are other perspectives here from mormons and nonmormons alike.

onwards, aryan brother! (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175)

Yes all people who call for protection of the middle
class are obviously racist.

I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor. We do not need them we have millions of people in prison who could do the work. I say throw their sorry Mexican flag waving asses out of the country. If they think Mexico is so god dam great then we should send their sorry asses back. I am tired of driving by a bunch of stupid ass kids protesting blocking the roads and highways while they are waving their peice of shit Mexican flags. Send their sorry asses back and let prisoners pick the god dam fruit.You are one bigoted individual. Tell me, you're not a racist are you? (that was called sarcasm)

Yes all people who call for protection of the middle
class are obviously racist.

no. people who show up typing racist code words, using racist talking points, and linking to racist websites are either racists or terrifically naive and confused.

You are one bigoted individual. Tell me, you're not a racist are you? (that was called sarcasm)

What is racist about it? A country that keeps its people in poverty is a shit country. Therefore the mexican flag is a piece of shit flag. The people at these protest loyalty lie with Mexico not America. I know this becuase they burn the American flag and
wave the mexican flag proudly. So if they love Mexico and hate America why should they not go back to Mexico? Nothing racist at all about what I wrote unless you are some knee jerk left wing dip shit.

no. people who show up typing racist code words, using racist talking points, and linking to racist websites are either racists or terrifically naive and confused.

Code words wtf. Racist talking points and how was that web site racist. SO calling the Mexican racists
racist makes me a racist. Call me what ever, sticks and stones may brake my bones but words will never hurt me.

What is racist about it? A country that keeps its people in poverty is a shit country. Therefore the mexican flag is a piece of shit flag. The people at these protest loyalty lie with Mexico not America. I know this becuase they burn the American flag and
wave the mexican flag proudly. So if they love Mexico and hate America why should they not go back to Mexico? Nothing racist at all about what I wrote unless you are some knee jerk left wing dip shit.A country that is in economic poverty is an example of why capitalism is a failed economic philosophy. It's basis is profit for the few and exploitation for the many. The problem is not Mexico but countries like the usa who are plundering the planets resources and destroying the environment.

Not all usa flag burning people come from Mexico, maybe lots of international communities engage in this. Perhaps you should be trying to understand the reasons why?

You have not dealt with the fact that you are a racist, which is why all your arguments are flawed and suspect

Originally Posted by Freakyjsin
I am tired of hearing why we need the Illegal aliens for their unskilled labor

WOW they use aliens to pick fruit? I thought that they just worked in the X-files, Star Wars and other space movies. We don't get any aliens where I live, just human beings. How boring is that? Do they come in space ships or are they beamed there?

Marry me Freakyjsin. I would say something about this but you about sum it all up for me

Bullshit MECHA is in every highschool in california their motto is"For the race every thing for those outside the race nothing" You have no idea what you are talking about.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.htmlMECHA is not in every high school in california. Now you're just making shit up.

You have not dealt with the fact that you are a racist, which is why all your arguments are flawed and suspect

You support the wage slavery of illegal immigrants. You support the destruction of the middle class so the Elite can brake the back of the middle class using cheap illegal labor. Yet you call me the evil capitalist racist. Very funny

MECHA is not in every high school in california. Now you're just making shit up.

Bull shit they are in every hight school with a significant number of mexicans. Prove me wrong or stfu.