NationStates Jolt Archive

Prince Rupert guy? I feel offended... jk :p

as far as i know, you are not a conservative

the brains part. . . . . . .well . . . . . :p

kidding.

Anarchy!
Tired of self-righteous ideologies controlling your life?
Then vote for Anarchy and see what happens.

I had to download it too, on dial up, and it's the manifesto I support. At least you don't have to look at it.
Well, considering that people are supposed to vote for you, you might want to consider creating a thread here, with the manifesto on page one, just to inform potential voters, without making it difficult for them.

At any rate, I have Acrobat Reader, and it works for everything else, but if I click on that link, it's just an empty page, and if I try to save as, I just download an empty html-file.

Anyone up for another round of debate?Sure, why not. How about...... SAME-SEX MARRIAGE!!! :D

Sure, why not. How about...... SAME-SEX MARRIAGE!!! :D
Er, that'll be all the leftist, NSCL, NBIP, and maybe the ESP agreeing on it and the NSCP on the other. Oy! :D

Ummm... Healthcare? pretty touchy issue here in Canada.

Or maybe Education?

I've got an idea. In the Netherlands we have a kind of voting website which determines which party matches your opinions the most.

This is done by giving some issues on which both the parties and the voter can say if they agree or not (or neutral). After 30(but for NS I suggest 10) of these issues you can then count which party agrees with you the most.

For people that speak dutch(or Frisian): www.stemwijzer.nl

I've got an idea. In the Netherlands we have a kind of voting website which determines which party matches your opinions the most.

This is done by giving some issues on which both the parties and the voter can say if they agree or not (or neutral). After 30(but for NS I suggest 10) of these issues you can then count which party agrees with you the most.

For people that speak dutch(or Frisian): www.stemwijzer.nl
I've seen many websites like this before.

How would that really translate into NS parties? Besides, I think most everyone knows their PC position, so whichever party has the most people closest to them would probably best suit them.

Text Version of The Manifesto (Scroll Down) (http://www.hostmybb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=71&mforum=nscp#71)
T-Shirts anybody?

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1327/dsp1b0bpsss5cr.jpg

Grazi, although I made a few changes. :D

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9246/alteredshirt7xq.png

Like winners?
He does! (http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3091/alansugarvotesesp2sn.jpg)
VOTE ESP!

Text Version of The Manifesto (Scroll Down) (http://www.hostmybb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=71&mforum=nscp#71)


Grazi, although I made a few changes. :D

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1356/alteredshirt7vx.png


Nations States Counter-strike!!! Yay!!!

:D

Nations States Counter-strike!!! Yay!!! :D

The updated version is a little better. :p

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

Say no to privatization of public services

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

between who?

between who?
The one who's making the shirts. I want 3.

My t-shirts are locally made, not made in some outsourced foreign country where workers there don't get their fair share.

My t-shirts are locally made, not made in some outsourced foreign country where workers there don't get their fair share.

But then they are turned into my shirts, which require a hand and a pen, so everyone gets them 60% off. :D

My t-shirts are locally made, not made in some outsourced foreign country where workers there don't get their fair share.
Locally? You mean you didn't make them yourself? How bourgeois.

My t-shirts are locally made, not made in some outsourced foreign country where workers there don't get their fair share.
Yes, because where you are living is soooo much nicer.

Anarchy!
Because all governments are corrupt.

The UDCP will not try to sway you with flashy fonts... The UDCP will present its case and let you make your own descision. Education for all! Health care for all! Food for all! Housing for all! Clothing for all! The UDCP is for the benefit of the masses. We have political democracy. It is up to us to create economic democracy! Vote UDCP!

The UDCP will not try to sway you with flashy fonts... The UDCP will present its case and let you make your own descision. Education for all! Health care for all! Food for all! Housing for all! Clothing for all! The UDCP is for the benefit of the masses. We have political democracy. It is up to us to create economic democracy! Vote UDCP!
And taxes for all! By the boatloads :D

Well of course you need to pay the government for the benefits you receive. People don't seem to realize that taxes ultimately benefit the taxpayers. Think of what the world be like if there weren't any taxes... We'd have the majority of the people in shacks with small gated communities for the rich with lavish schools and hospitals. Taxes give the state power and the state is given power by the people anyway.

But then they are turned into my shirts, which require a hand and a pen, so everyone gets them 60% off. :DI hate you...

:D

Oh and btw, it's union made too.

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

The Conservative only cares about their corporate cronies, DSP cares about everybody. That's because everyone matters.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

Well of course you need to pay the government for the benefits you receive. People don't seem to realize that taxes ultimately benefit the taxpayers. Think of what the world be like if there weren't any taxes... We'd have the majority of the people in shacks with small gated communities for the rich with lavish schools and hospitals. Taxes give the state power and the state is given power by the people anyway.

So you take your citizen's income to support them, when if you didn't take their money at all they could support themselves anyways.

Or the alternative, you take their money to support all of those who do not have an income therefore making those who work for their money poorer, while those who you give the tax money still remain to be poor with a few well-taken bucks. So, everyone is poor and given hand me outs by your government because you took their money... Makes sense to me.


I hate you...

:D

Would you like a 60% off T-Shirt to ease the hate?

Would you like a 60% off T-Shirt to ease the hate?You're selling "your" t-shirts at a price?

I give away these t-shirts at a donation

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1327/dsp1b0bpsss5cr.jpg

Union made t-shirts, go and get one.

I'm not making money out of these t-shirt btw.

So you take your citizen's income to support them, when if you didn't take their money at all they could support themselves anyways.
Supporting themselves by building roads and funding education while buying 100 new F-22s for defense and then some? Yes that makes sense. Let's have complete anarchy with no central government what so ever.

VOTE
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8641/ad62si.png
Because we think you matter enough to let you decide where your money goes.
And because we have cheap T-Shirts.

Supporting themselves by building roads and funding education while buying 100 new F-22s for defense and then some? Yes that makes sense. Let's have complete anarchy with no central government what so ever.hear hear!!!

And because we have cheap T-Shirts.
We have FREE T-Shirts!

Supporting themselves by building roads and funding education while buying 100 new F-22s for defense and then some? Yes that makes sense.
Private companies build roads and run schools just fine, better than the government in fact.

OR: The proletariat can build these roads and run these schools without the need for money. They will recognize it is in their better interest to do so.

Military defense is unnecessary in the modern world, especially weapons that can only be used offensively, like fighter jets.
Let's have complete anarchy with no central government what so ever.
Now you’re speaking my language.

You're selling "your" t-shirt at a price?

I give away this t-shirt at a donation

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1327/dsp1b0bpsss5cr.jpg

Union made t-shirts, go and get one.

I'm not making money out of these t-shirt btw.

Well they are 60% from whatever you were selling them for, so I guess I'll give them 6 Valutas and a T-Shirt. :p


Supporting themselves by building roads and funding education while buying 100 new F-22s for defense and then some? Yes that makes sense. Let's have complete anarchy with no central government what so ever

So you have a 10% income tax, and the government takes care of the roads, education, and defense while I still buy my own Coca-Cola and Clothing.

We have FREE T-Shirts!Hmm, i rather give away by donation, oh well.

So you have a 10% income tax, and the government takes care of the roads, education, and defense while I still buy my own Coca-Cola and Clothing.
Already with a progressive income tax, the wealthy people who can afford to hire good tax attourneys can cut their tax payments nearly in half, so it almost becomes regressive. A flat tax isn't going to help unless all possible loopholes are closed, which would require massive amounts of red-tape.

Hmm, i rather give away by donation, oh well.
meh, same thing almost.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7747/tshirt7qk.png

From the label: "Made in Bangladesh... by child labour"

So you're selling these at Wal-Mart 60% off?

Wow, we're getting off topic right now. Damn t-shirts...

Debate anyone?

How about Education?

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

Supporting the Kyoto protocol for clean environment

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

How about Education?
Well obviously it should be taken over by anti-government types of differing varieties and used as one of the nation’s money drains with which to irreversibly burden it with debt.

VOTE

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8641/ad62si.png

And have some free hats.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/4179/blackcap9nn.pnghttp://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9586/redcap6vl.png


(Hey you said no more T-shirts)

I believe public education should be funded with more teachers, smaller class sizes, and better support for ESL and special needs students.

As for post-secondary students, we should either lower or freeze tuition fees, or offer some sort of financial aids to help student to make ends meet.

I believe public education should be funded with more teachers, smaller class sizes, and better support for ESL and special needs students.

like what the BC teachers wanted when they went on strike last October?

like what the BC teachers wanted when they went on strike last October?Yeah. Back in September, 42 of my classmates attended the only Principles of Math 12 class in my school, now there's only 32 left.

I heard BCTF are thinking of having a another strike vote.

Teachers never get along with the BC government, no matter which party is in power.

Sad situation.... :(

BC Government under the BC Liberals is the worst btw.

Is it too late to declare a party?

Yeah. Back in September, 42 of my classmates attended the only Principles of Math 12 class in my school, now there's only 32 left.

I heard BCTF are thinking of having a another strike vote.

Teachers never get along with the BC government, no matter which party is in power.

Sad situation.... :(

BC Government under the BC Liberals is the worst btw.

yeah, they are talking of another strike next september. Personally, I hope the strike won't happen, or at least will be put off for another year, AFTER I've graduated.

You know why? Our province is poor, it constantly gets screwed over by the States (softwood lumber), and protesting hippies rule the province. But still, the Liberals are NOT helping the situation. But what can you do? It's not like the Liberals are going to get kicked out of power soon. Another 4 years with them, joy...:rolleyes:

I still buy my own Coca-Cola and Clothing.
Or be like me, buy Coca-Cola Clothing.

Is it too late to declare a party?
nope.

yeah, they are talking of another strike next september. Personally, I hope the strike won't happen, or at least will be put off for another year, AFTER I've graduated.You're in Gr.11 right now? Geez, felt sorry for you kid.
You know why? Our province is poor, it constantly gets screwed over by the States (softwood lumber), and protesting hippies rule the province. But still, the Liberals are NOT helping the situation. But what can you do? It's not like the Liberals are going to get kicked out of power soon. Another 4 years with them, joy...:rolleyes:Yeah, quite wondering why our schools and hospitals are underfunded while the gov't are throwing money at gordo's olympics.

Idiots... :rolleyes:

Glad to have my former elementary teacher's husband as an NDP MLA. Cool guy, better than that fat BC Liberal bastard.

Btw, where do you live?

nope.

All right! :D

By popular acclaim (so far 11-0 in the poll (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473164)), I declare the existance of the Birthday Party! (Seriously.)

All right! :D

By popular acclaim (so far 11-0 in the poll (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473164)), I declare the existance of the Birthday Party! (Seriously.)I voted yes. :D

btw, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :D :p :D

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

More teachers, smaller class sizes, better education.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

I voted yes. :D

btw, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :D :p :D

Thanks. I'll try to put up a thread withb a party platform through tomorrows hangover haze.

Ooooh...don't suppose the Birthday Party would consider an alliance with the ESP? There be a link to our thread on the first page.
ESP
EVERY DAY IN POWER WILL BE A PARTY

Vote UDCP! We don't have to bribe you with clothing for your vote, because we know our party is better than the others!

To reply on the matter of education, here is what our (UDCP) manifesto says:


EDUCATION
* Education, including university education, would be made free for all.
* Education would be compulsory for all, from the age of four to university level (with flexible years).
* Education would be a high priority.
* Lessons in philosophy and critical thinking would be compulsory.
* Training and apprenticeship schemes would be introduced and encouraged on top of existing learning methods with vocational courses.
* Individuals would be nurtured and encouraged, their varied skills and abilities being taken into account.
* Sex education would be highly prioritised along with general health and safety.


We believe everyone should have access to an education, and should be encouraged to think for themselves, and develop the means to do so. That is why we will enable everyone to have a complete and thorough education, suited to each learner but covering a wide range in terms of knowledge and abilities, and focusing on critical thinking.

Ignorance is slavery. Give yourselves the means to decide your own destiny.

Vote UDCP, for a real education!

As a reminder, the vote opens on Friday. Check the OP for the list of confirmed parties.

Does the NSCL confirm it is taking part?

If the Birthday Party wishes to take part, it must have at least two members, and a manifesto.

As a reminder, the vote opens on Friday. Check the OP for the list of confirmed parties.

Does the NSCL confirm it is taking part?

If the Birthday Party wishes to take part, it must have at least two members, and a manifesto.

The Technocratic Party has a manifesto, and at least two members (since another person announced interest on this thread), so why are we not confirmed?

Why haven't you put the NSCPs manifesto on the front page, I've posted all the info..

You're in Gr.11 right now? Geez, felt sorry for you kid.
Thanks? I think...
Yeah, quite wondering why our schools and hospitals are underfunded while the gov't are throwing money at gordo's olympics. Idiots... :rolleyes:
And did you hear what our darling premier said about the goal of the olympics? to bring more tourists. Yes, to bring more bleeping tourists. No, not for the olympic spirit, not for the better of our country, but for money. And they've already exceeded their budget twice for the 2010 constructions. And guess where that money's going to come from?

Glad to have my former elementary teacher's husband as an NDP MLA. Cool guy, better than that fat BC Liberal bastard.
I have high hopes for Carrol James and her new MLA's. But compared to Campbell's sleaze-ball party, almost anything's better.
Btw, where do you live?
Victoria, the largest concentration of hippies in Canada. There are almost weekly protests down at the legislature nowadays.

I'm leaning towards the ESP. w00t.

As a reminder, the vote opens on Friday. Check the OP for the list of confirmed parties.

Does the NSCL confirm it is taking part?

If the Birthday Party wishes to take part, it must have at least two members, and a manifesto.
sign me up for the birthday party.

Why haven't you put the NSCPs manifesto on the front page, I've posted all the info..

Done.


The Technocratic Party has a manifesto, and at least two members (since another person announced interest on this thread), so why are we not confirmed?

Could you point me to it, please? I can't find the link to your thread and manifesto in this thread, nor can I thind the thread by searching for the Technocratic Party, nor by searching for your user name.


sign me up for the birthday party.

All right. You now need to talk to the party founder, and together come up with a manifesto. At least ten full lines in length.

Vote UDCP! We don't have to bribe you with clothing for your vote, because we know our party is better than the others!

pomposity will get you nothing!

why bribe us when you can just take our money for us

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

We believe in clean honest responsible government that works for everyone.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3665/mlppolice6jz.jpg






If anyone has any questions, DHomme made me the Party Spokesperson.

The communists want to abolish money. The Socialists want to take your money.

CONSERVATIVES let YOU keep YOUR money!

VOTE
NSCONSERVATIVEPARTY

CONSERVATIVES let YOU keep YOUR money!
Except for the part you tax people, and provided they spend it on wholesome things a good old conservative can agree with of course.

posters suck. on all sides.

how does what amouts to essentially spam work? this coming from a former poster. . poster myself.

"Keep YOUR money"

Are you referring to the money that was made off of the exploitation of workers? The system puts them in the situation to surrender their labour to gain minimal pay. It is not the Old Guard who have earned, they merely took it by brute force, it is the worker's money. The MLP would let you keep more than money. We'll let you keep your labour and your ability to use your talents freely.

EDUCATION
* Education, including university education, would be made free for all.
Making post-secondary institutions tuition free will drive us into fiscal deficit or taxpayers will pay outrageously high taxes. What if Grade 12 students planned not to go to colleges, universities, or polytechnic institutions? Then that would be a waste of money.

My plan is that Grade K to 12 education should be made available for everyone, tuition free. Also we should publicly fund post-secondary institutions and lower or freeze tuition fees to make it affordable for students. We should also offer students finacial aids such as student loan and scholarship programs.

* Education would be compulsory for all, from the age of four to university level (with flexible years).Disagree, all children should be registered in public or private schools at age 6. All students should be required to complete school from grade K to 12. Pre-school and post-secondary education is optional.
* Education would be a high priority.
agreed
* Lessons in philosophy and critical thinking would be compulsory.we don't brainwash kids with partisan philosophy.
* Training and apprenticeship schemes would be introduced and encouraged on top of existing learning methods with vocational courses.Trades and apprenticeship programs should be made available in post-secondary institution.
* Individuals would be nurtured and encouraged, their varied skills and abilities being taken into account.agreed.
* Sex education would be highly prioritised along with general health and safety. agreed. Should be part of the Career and Personal Planning curriculum.

If you read the NSCP manifesto you would see that we support the worker's right to organize.

Support your right to organize

SUPPORT

NSCONSERVATIVEPARTY

The MLP will give the workers their independence. Organization is only the first step.

The communists want to abolish money. The Socialists want to take your money.

CONSERVATIVES let YOU keep YOUR money!

VOTE
NSCONSERVATIVEPARTY

Conservative fiscal plan equals:

- cutting funding to affordable healthcare, resulting crowded ER, closed beds, and longer waiting lists.
- less teachers, oversized classrooms, no support for ESL and special needs students
- undermaintained infastructures
- privatisation of essential government services
- dirty environment
- corporate tax cuts for the well off

This time...
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

-Protecting workers from job outsourcing
-Guaranteeing workers' job security
-Defending workers' rights and freedoms

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

The Communist&Socialist Plan for Healthcare and Education:
-Underfunded socialized healthcare that results in longer lines and low quality prescription drugs
-Underfunded schools with out of date books and underpaid teachers

The Communist&Socialist Fiscal Plan:
-"Let's all be poor together!"

Vote for a tomorrow full of poverty and inefficiency

VOTE
COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST '06!

Funny...

This...

The Communist&Socialist Plan for Healthcare and Education:
-Underfunded socialized healthcare that results in longer lines and low quality prescription drugs
-Underfunded schools with out of date books and underpaid teachers

The Communist&Socialist Fiscal Plan:
-"Let's all be poor together!"

Vote for a tomorrow full of poverty and inefficiency

VOTE
COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST '06!

... is exactly what I said about them.


Conservative fiscal plan equals:

- cutting funding to affordable healthcare, resulting crowded ER, closed beds, and longer waiting lists.
- less teachers, oversized classrooms, no support for ESL and special needs students
- undermaintained infastructures
- privatisation of essential government services
- dirty environment
- corporate tax cuts for the well off

This time...
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif
Nice try tories.

We advocate for more health and education funding, not cutting funding like you guys do. :rolleyes:

So Conservatives, what's your position on education???

It's a shame, TCR, that you don't realize the unrealism of your plans. History has proven that government run, socialized, half baked healthcare is inefficient. The result is longer lines, low grade medicine, and underpaid doctors who then move to other countries. That's why so many doctors have left Canada to practice in America, they can't afford to work and live at the same time in Canada.

When will you Soviets realize that socialism and communism have failed?

It's a shame, TCR, that you don't realize the unrealism of your plans. History has proven that government run, socialized, half baked healthcare is inefficient. The result is longer lines, low grade medicine, and underpaid doctors who then move to other countries. That's why so many doctors have left Canada to practice in America, they can't afford to work and live at the same time in Canada.

When will you Soviets realize that socialism and communism have failed?Incase you didn't know, here in the province of British Columbia. Our healthcare system has failed more patients than ever before because of massive, massive, and massive tax cuts and privatization of healthcare under this BC Liberal Government. They tried to usher in private healthcare in our province, and how many people CAN AFFORD private healthcare.

As for low priced drugs. They're not low grade, they're subsidized. I can get an asprin for an affordable price at a same brand than the one in the states.

BTW, BC Liberals is a right-wing party, not centre-left

A CONSERVATIVE Plan for Education:
-Merit Based pay for teachers
-Utilizing technology in schools
-Higher standards for students
-Local control of K-12 schools
-Right for parents to relocate students to private schools with assistance through vouchers
-Merit based scholarships for students who display good grades and work ethic

The CONSERVATIVE Education Philosophy

Teaching the Learners of Today to be the Leaders of Tomorrow!

A Communist/Socialist Plan for Education:
-Larger classes
-Underpaid teachers
-Failing test scores

The Commie/Socialist Education Philosophy

Throw Money at the Problem Until the Beuracracy Shuts Up

Funny, seems like you're copying our plan:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10577522&postcount=293

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10581517&postcount=322 (made minor corrections about registry btw.)

You tories must be desperate aren't you.

Btw, your education plan won't work with your "keep your money" fiscal plan.

I promise that the education system will get more funding towards improvement. New funding for improvement, not repairing as a problem solver.

The Commie/Socialist Education Philosophy

Throw Money at the Problem Until the Beuracracy Shuts Up


better than taking that money away :rolleyes: .

hey, has anyone seen anything about their own views with the NSCP? well, more The Mowers?

i'm pretty sure you can't run on a platform of 'the other guy sucks'

Could you point me to it, please? I can't find the link to your thread and manifesto in this thread, nor can I thind the thread by searching for the Technocratic Party, nor by searching for your user name.


The thread seems to have been destroyed in the recent upheaval. I'll repost it.

hey, has anyone seen anything about their own views with the NSCP? well, more The Mowers?That's because they're desperate.

I should report this to Ariddia. I think it's against election rules.

Fleckenstein, think about reading the manifesto? Then perhaps you can state we don't have plans or ideas. Personally if I were the Commies/Socialists then I would hide the manifesto, maybe then they could hide who they really are.

I propose a pact. This is ironic coming from me considering the ads, but I'm going to sign this. No negative ads or direct attacks. What'd you say?


*extends hand to NSCP this once. Extends other hand to NSDSP*

OK look, you can stop with conservative propaganda for once and think about what you're saying. Being an American student, I can say that the American educational machine has failed. The vast majority of students don't care about education. American education no longer has any soul. Education should come from the natural desire to improve oneself and feed one's thirst for knowlege. Education comes from the heart and the mind, and America, perhaps the most capitalist place on Earth, has forgotten both of these aspects of humanity. If you you think all we're trying to do is throw money at the problem, you are dead wrong. We're setting out to change the system itself. Read about socialism's educational triumph in this article:

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/2876/1/154/

Fleckenstein, think about reading the manifesto? Then perhaps you can state we don't have plans or ideas. Personally if I were the Commies/Socialists then I would hide the manifesto, maybe then they could hide who they really are.I think Conservative has a hidden agenda. But right now, they got a copycat/"make something up quick" agenda.

I propose a pact. This is ironic coming from me considering the ads, but I'm going to sign this. No negative ads or direct attacks. What'd you say?


*extends hand to NSCP this once. Extends other hand to NSDSP*
Dude, we were running a smooth campaign. The conservatives at the other hand, Valori is t-shirt/baseball cap bribing and Mower is making copycat/attack ads.

Fleckenstein, think about reading the manifesto? Then perhaps you can state we don't have plans or ideas. Personally if I were the Commies/Socialists then I would hide the manifesto, maybe then they could hide who they really are.

Oh, you mean this 'hidden' manifesto? The one on the first page? Every day? (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472567)

or this possibly broken link? (http://freeuploader.com/view.php/128389.pdf)

and, oh yeah, all you have done is bash us. at least we split positive/negative 70/30.

Dude, we were running a smooth campaign. The conservatives at the other hand, Valori is t-shirt/baseball cap bribing and Mower is making copycat/attack ads.
Oh, no this is to keep me from attacking unfairly. You're here so, I extended my hand.

I too am an American student and I have seen its successes. If you compare the progress in schools between when Bill Clinton and George Bush were president you will see the progress was made under the conservative agenda of George Bush. Bill Clinton's plan was to simply throw money at the problem, raise taxes and give it to schools who haven't improved. That system failed, no progress was made. Since 2001 when President Bush got into office you began to see local districts take control of education (with the exception of NCLB). That's how education should be run, by the local districts, they know the needs of the students the best.

Here in New Jersey (a very liberal state where even most Republicans are liberal) ,where I'm from, the Supreme Court of NJ passed a ruling stating that failing school districts should receive an unfair percentage of state funding for education. This ruling has been in effect for years and the school district has not improved. Right now my township only receives about twenty percent of the money back for schools that it puts in, the rest goes to one of about six underperforming districts. This is quintessential of a failed socialist policy.

Dude, we were running a smooth campaign

sorry. botched that recently. well, its not that bad. i guess.

I RUINED IT! GAAAAAH!

*runs and cries*

you will see the progress was made under the conservative agenda of George Bush

only because the standards were lowered :rolleyes: . for instance, 4th grade ESPAs, 96th-98th percentile for me. GEPAs, after NCLB, 99th percentile. in all of them. i dont think i got smarter.

my local school failed a few times before NCLB. then, miraculously, they suddenly passed. with the same scores.

what happens under NCLB when a district/school fails?

EDIT: i live in south jersey and went to public school for eight years.

I propose a pact. This is ironic coming from me considering the ads, but I'm going to sign this. No negative ads or direct attacks. What'd you say?


*extends hand to NSCP this once. Extends other hand to NSDSP*

I'll sign the pledge, I simply responded to the Socio-Commies personal attacks on me from earlier. I too have brought forth a positive agenda, preaching prosperity and common sense Conservatism. Sure at times I've exposed the other side for what it is, but if that's considered negative attacks then to each his own. But i'm willing to quiet down on some of the rhetoric.

I'll sign the pledge, I simply responded to the Socio-Commies personal attacks on me from earlier. I too have brought forth a positive agenda, preaching prosperity and common sense Conservatism. Sure at times I've exposed the other side for what it is, but if that's considered negative attacks then to each his own. But i'm willing to quiet down on some of the rhetoric.

*grrrrrrrrrygfdyuodysuohxusndocsnuanzzzizn!!!!!*

fine. i'll stop. that was the last outburst.
that's utter bullshit. i'm lying.
really.
haha. wait till they start again.
i'm serious.

Yes! Another attack ad against the conservatives. :D

This was your smooth, positive campaign TCR?

Our education is getting worst under a conservative government, that is the BC Liberals. Less teachers, closing schools, large class sizes, a 2-week teachers strike, and in some school districts, a 4-day school week. In Prince Rupert Secondary School (my school that is), a school with 700 students, with 150 grade 12 students, there is only ONE Principles of Math 12 for the WHOLE SCHOOL YEAR. In September, there are 41 classmates in my Math 12 class, now there are 32. Underfunded education system under the BC Liberal... joy. :rolleyes:

You find those education problems in many areas of Canada, you can't blame the BC Libs for it. Here in NJ, USA the failing school districts are all run by Democrats (libs) and theyre the ones that are failing.

EDIT: i live in south jersey and went to public school for eight years.
Where in South Jersey?

Yes! Another attack ad against the conservatives!:DThis was your smooth, positive campaign TCR?

did you really quote this? or is it made up?

which post was it? i want proof.

I propose a pact. This is ironic coming from me considering the ads, but I'm going to sign this. No negative ads or direct attacks. What'd you say?


*extends hand to NSCP this once. Extends other hand to NSDSP*
Will not sign until NSCP agrees to run on their OWN manifesto, not ours. Also, NSCP should not make up plans on the spot, must be from their own manifesto.

Where in South Jersey?

sicklerville. gloucester township. near washington township.

This was your smooth, positive campaign TCR?Did I say "positive"???

Will not sign until NSCP agrees to run on their OWN manifesto, not ours.
That is completely understandable.

I'll not agree until all arms are put down. *nods*

I would like to point out that it is not how much, so-called private schools do well with less, but it's how it's spent. The currenct solution in the US is to create a structure that punishes those that need it the most. I ask how can a school improve if it is denied the funds because it hasn't the tools to improve? It's a typical catch-22. This is unacceptable.

Hey, Aridda, the Technocrat Manifesto is back up. The link is in my sig.

Ok, I propose another pact. Similar to Neo Kervoskia's pact except that all parties MUST agree that they should run only under their OWN manifesto. Plans and proposals MUST be from their own manifesto. At this point, they will not allow to revise their manifesto until the elections IS OVER.

*extends hand to all parties*

The Conservatives: Lower tax to reduce fiscal surplus and cut spending to public healthcare, open private hospitals and clinics... for the wealthy.


IDK, this is pretty bad. But w/e I don't want to get into a "who was worse" game...despite the fact that I'd win :p

In regards to speaking off of our manifesto, if you read closely the educaiton plan I mentioned, I stated specifically (unedited) that it was "A Conservative Education Plan". Not "The Conservative Education Plan". This is simply a plan that I, as a conservative propose, which I'm sure many conservative coleagues would agree with (though I won't speak for them). As for running on your manifesto, I have yet to see that this is true.

too bad your manifesto is in pdf format...

Ok, I propose another pact. Similar to Neo Kervoskia's pact except that all parties MUST agree that they should run only under their OWN manifesto. Plans and proposals MUST be from their own manifesto. At this point, they will not allow to revise their manifesto until the elections IS OVER.

*extends hand to all parties*

I'm probably not too relevant, but I really can't agree to that last part. I still haven't received much of a within-party response as to what works and what doesn't, so I may have to revise to at least some extent.

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

Supporting same-sex marriage

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

same-sex marriage debate anyone?

Who wants to put a ban on banner ads too?

The MLP fully supports same-sex marriage. Why should spectators deny you legal marriage because its against their traditions?

The DSP believes that same-sex marriage is a fundamental right.

The UUP believes that it is NOT a right, however allows it, but it is called a union, not a mairrage. Mairrages are man and woman.

The MLP fully supports same-sex marriage. Why should spectators deny you legal marriage because its against their traditions?Religious groups, homophobics?

The UUP believes that it is NOT a right, however allows it, but it is called a union, not a mairrage. Mairrages are man and woman.UUP? What party is that? :confused:

Btw, so you mean marriage is a PRIVILEDGE? How strange.

Religious groups, homophobics?
Yes, if they actively fight against same-sex marriage, then they are in that category.

The Technocrats support same sex marriage, not because it's a right but because it has no documented harms.

Yes, if they actively fight against same-sex marriage, then they are in that category.Since DSP supports the seperation between church and state, DSP will fully support gay marriage despite opposition from religious groups.

Hmmm, The Mowers left the debate? I haven't heard their conservative views on same-sex marriage. Anybody want to move on to a different topic?

too bad your manifesto is in pdf format...

*ahem* (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10576450&postcount=238)

UUP? What party is that?

My party, the Utopian Unique Party. Look at here for our (somewhat incomplete) manifesto:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472586&highlight=Utopian+Unique+Party

*ahem* (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10576450&postcount=238)
exactly :p

My party, the Utopian Unique Party. Look at here for our (somewhat incomplete) manifesto:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=472586&highlight=Utopian+Unique+PartyHmm, I think I remember this party ran in the 2nd NS General Election, not sure.

Hmm, I think I remember this party ran in the 2nd NS General Election, not sure.

coincidence? or something more?

are they legal or what?

coincidence? or something more?

are they legal or what?
I don't think so. Ariddia has yet to recognise them.

I don't think so. Ariddia has yet to recognise them.

Then again, Ariddia hasn't confirmed us either, though we meet the prereqs.

Then again, Ariddia hasn't confirmed us either, though we meet the prereqs.Did you have more than two members?

Did you have more than two members?

Someone else expressed interest earlier in this thread, that's why we're listed as to be confirmed rather than not listed at all like the UUP. Ariddia just hasn't checked back on our manifesto yet.

Neo Kervoskia, wanna start that smooth ad campaign again. I'll give you 3 posts head start btw. :D

Neo Kervoskia, wanna start that smooth ad campaign again. I'll give you 3 posts head start btw. :D
You're on. ;)

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/2687/untitled6660kb.png


There we go.

you forgot that [img] tag. :D

Time to answer the right way.

In the discussion of education. The NSCP has not discussed education in the manifesto, and while I have my personal views on the subject they do not represent the party as a whole. Therefore the NSCP abstains from this discussion, do to the absence of an educational discussion in the Manifesto.

Secondly, as stated in the manifesto, the NSCP is againt Gay marriage because we feel that marriage is an institution between a man and a woman (which is the general denotation). However, we do realize that what happens between two people, should be between those two people (to a certain extent) and are open to discussion on Civil Unions.


I propose a pact. This is ironic coming from me considering the ads, but I'm going to sign this. No negative ads or direct attacks. What'd you say?


*extends hand to NSCP this once. Extends other hand to NSDSP*

I'd sign the pact, then again I haven't had any negative ads (other then a sarcastic T-shirt altering post). Then again, it would seem I'm the only liked Conservative in this thread, and I'm not even completely Conservative.

I personally admit that I like Valori as person than the other two.

Btw, I will refrain from posting attack ads eventhough I will not sign the pact.

Valori, will you do me a favour? :D

Trust the Computer...

VOTE TECHNOCRAT
The Only Party that Guarantees Competence

Dell Computer?

jk jk :D

I read all the manifesto's and could not find one which I really liked. The Classic Liberal's was ok, but not great. I would write my own, but haven't the time, and not many would agree with me anyways.

I'll just write in Lunatic Goofballs for NS Imperial Dictator whenever elections come around.

As promised yesterday, here is the thread for the Birthday Party's platform: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473303

In revising the DSP's manifesto I have taken a lot of care to learn from the mistakes made both by Socialist and Social Market Economies in the past. I incorporated plans by people like Milton Friedman (OMFG! Teh Commies!!!11!).

On Healthcare:
We support the right of every individual in the country to get decent and affordable healthcare. We are aware that the government controlling the industry is inefficient and has in the past led to inferior outcomes.

Therefore, we plan to allow doctors to operate in the normal legal framework as they wish. The government will not interfere with pricing until collusion or other illegal activities take place.

However, we will subsidise the use of healthcare by providing customers with government funds. The government will be paying a large share of standard procedures. This will allow even the poorest to attain a decent quality of healthcare, but also allow doctors to set their own prices. The higher they set their prices, the less business they will get, but if they set prices close to the level of government subsidy, they will have a steady flow of income. We expect a corrected market like this to function efficiently and effectively.

On Education:
The government will continue to run public schools. However, those who wish to let their kids attend a private school may do so.
We will use a fixed amount of funds per individual as investment in the future. Parents can choose to either use those funds by sending their children to a public school and not pay fees, or sending their kids to a private school, where they will be supported with a voucher system (a voucher being worth the equivalent of attending a public school) but will have to pay the additional costs themselves.

Private Schools will still have to adhere to a standardised curriculum and a code of conduct. But importantly, if they can compete with and improve over the public schools in terms of quality of education and efficiency of fund allocation, they are bound to succeed, leaving the whole of society with a better outcome.

Considering that our manifesto is full of this kind of sensible, pragmatic solution, I can not but interpret campaigns of association with unsuccessful socialist states (not once was the fact mentioned that in Cuba less infants die per capita than in the US) as smear campaigns.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif

Thank for clarifying our stance on healthcare and education, Neu Leonstein. ;)

I still believe that healthcare should be a public service, not a for-profit business making money on the sick. But I know some people willing to spend more money for better healthcare, so I think private clinics should be regulated. My consern about two-tier healthcare is that private healthcare will attract doctors from the public system, leaving doctor shortage in public hospitals and ordinary people won't get a decent healthcare they deserve.

What about our views on post-secondary education?

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif

-snip-
We'll discuss that in the party thread. :)

right on. ;)

The Technocratic Party is in.

The Birthday Party is not yet in (incomplete manifesto). Likewise the UUP (incomplete manifesto, and only one member).

NSCL, still waiting for confirmation that you're taking part?

Making post-secondary institutions tuition free will drive us into fiscal deficit or taxpayers will pay outrageously high taxes.

Not true. It works in France, and several other countries.


we don't brainwash kids with partisan philosophy.

I'm glad to hear it. Though obviously you've misread our manifesto. Teaching philosophy and critical thinking is the exact reverse of propaganda. The aim is to encourage people to think for themselves, and develop a critical, analytical approach to anything they're told/taught.

Ignorance is slavery. Vote for a real education!
Vote UDCP!

I personally admit that I like Valori as person than the other two.

Btw, I will refrain from posting attack ads eventhough I will not sign the pact.

Valori, will you do me a favour? :D

As long as it doesn't require me to run around in a leotard screming, "I'm a Torie", then maybe....:cool:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7034/openborders8un.jpg

So a human being is never illegal, even when they've commited murder, genocide, rape, etc.?

That makes sense :rolleyes:

I agree we need to open up the borders a bit, but it still needs some restriction...

So a human being is never illegal, even when they've commited murder, genocide, rape, etc.?

That makes sense :rolleyes:

I agree we need to open up the borders a bit, but it still needs some restriction...

I think you missed the point of the poster. A human being themselves cannot be declared illegal, like has happened to immigrants. Only an action can be illegal.

Has a date been set for the start of the election yet? And how long will voting last for?

I think you missed the point of the poster. A human being themselves cannot be declared illegal, like has happened to immigrants. Only an action can be illegal.


But it's still their doing, so a government is not allowed to deny them access to their country if they're a convicted murderer? They should be forced to let them in to kill the countries citizens?

I think you need to explain the poster a bit more clearly.

As long as it doesn't require me to run around in a leotard screming, "I'm a Torie", then maybe....:cool:Nah.

Smack The Mower on the forehead. :p :D

Has a date been set for the start of the election yet? And how long will voting last for?Friday. ;)

Friday. ;)
And another question - which question was that an answer to? :p

And another question - which question was that an answer to? :pOh, the 1st question. :D

Has a date been set for the start of the election yet? And how long will voting last for?

It starts tomorrow (probably within the next ten to fourteen hours), and will last five days.

Nah.

Smack The Mower on the forehead. :p :D

Hey if a socialist wants to hit me on the head then I must be doing something right. :p ;)

As for the gay marriage debate the fact is that everybody has the right to marry....someone of the opposite sex. Many claim that laws discriminate against homosexuals. Not true, the fact is that the same law presides over everyone, and that is to marry someone of the opposite sex.

As for the gay marriage debate the fact is that everybody has the right to marry....someone of the opposite sex. Many claim that laws discriminate against homosexuals. Not true, the fact is that the same law presides over everyone, and that is to marry someone of the opposite sex.

Which is absurd. It's as if I were to say heterosexuals were allowed to get married... but only to someone of the same sex. Or to a dog.

Putting it another way, saying homosexuals may marry someone of the opposite sex makes about as much sense as giving men the right to become pregnant, or women the right to grow a beard.

I would be very interested to hear on what grounds you oppose same-sex marriage. Try as I might, I can think of no rational reason not to allow it.

The UDCP favours rationality over prejudice.
Vote UDCP!

TBc proposes an alliance between all rational parties of the centre and the right to defeat the spectre of socialism and communism.

Hey if a socialist wants to hit me on the head then I must be doing something right. :p ;)

As for the gay marriage debate the fact is that everybody has the right to marry....someone of the opposite sex. Many claim that laws discriminate against homosexuals. Not true, the fact is that the same law presides over everyone, and that is to marry someone of the opposite sex.

or something wrong :D . nah, i apologize for the insults and political banter.

not the .pdf comment/poster. that was more funny than political.

TBc proposes an alliance between all rational parties of the centre and the right to defeat the spectre of socialism and communism.

And yet it seems that we communists are being a lot more rational than the conservatives. See my post above your own.

And yet it seems that we communists are being a lot more rational than the conservatives. See my post above your own.

I oppose you economically and politically. In terms of civil liberties, I am more inclined to follow the line adopted by the UDCP.

I oppose you economically and politically. In terms of civil liberties, I am more inclined to follow the line adopted by the UDCP.

Good. I think there are matters most of us can indeed agree on. Hopefully those are matters we can get through Parliament. Regarding civil liberties, I'm assuming most parties will form one large majority against the Conservatives.

Good. I think there are matters most of us can indeed agree on. Hopefully those are matters we can get through Parliament. Regarding civil liberties, I'm assuming most parties will form one large majority against the Conservatives.

Indeed. Granted suchunions are civil and secular, and not held in a religious house, they justify themselves.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8641/ad62si.png

Nah.

Smack The Mower on the forehead. :p :D

That depends, can I use a fish?

Hey if a socialist wants to hit me on the head then I must be doing something right. :p ;)
No, for being a copycat.

Hey if a socialist wants to hit me on the head then I must be doing something right. :p ;)

As for the gay marriage debate the fact is that everybody has the right to marry....someone of the opposite sex. Many claim that laws discriminate against homosexuals. Not true, the fact is that the same law presides over everyone, and that is to marry someone of the opposite sex.So you think discrimination against homosexual is not true? Then you must be homophobic.

Btw, from our manifesto on same-sex marriage:

"Marriage between two consenting adults of the same sex is a fundamental right and will be permitted"

That depends, can I use a fish?Eut's smiley? :D

Eut's smiley? :D

yeah, but without the smiling! :p

or something wrong :D . nah, i apologize for the insults and political banter.

not the .pdf comment/poster. that was more funny than political.Certainly not forgiving The Mower and his copycat attack ads... ;)

Certainly not forgiving The Mower and his copycat attack ads... ;)

nonononononno, apologizing for destroying his platform in a not nice way.

sorry if there was any confusion.

"His" platform that resembles like ours?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10581783&postcount=332

Something that never existed on their own manifesto.

Btw, are you joking?

Irregardless of mine, or Mowers, personal opinion the NSCP manifesto states that we are against gay marriage, but we are open to discussion on civil unions.

Whatever any of our personal beliefs are doesn't matter, as that is not what our manifesto says. As I am sure you are all aware, Conservatives believe in following the morals and values of the past (to an extent) so we look at marriage as it is denotated, "The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife". However, we do realize that homosexual people should have the right to be together, which is why we are very open to discussion on Civil Unions.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1435/ad74dj.png (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10577359#post10577359)

As I am sure you are all aware, Conservatives believe in following the morals and values of the past (to an extent) so we look at marriage as it is denotated, "The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife".

But why? You need an actual reason to oppose gay marriage. Or, by your reasoning, society would never evolve. Women would never have obtained the right to vote, for example.

So, leaving aside the "values of the past", what reason have you got to oppose same-sex marriage?

But why? You need an actual reason to oppose gay marriage. Or, by your reasoning, society would never evolve. Women would never have obtained the right to vote, for example.

So, leaving aside the "values of the past", what reason have you got to oppose same-sex marriage?

You miss the intricacies of the point. Valori is willing to countenance homosexual civil unions, both morally and legally, however a marriage contains moral and religious connotations that, whilst being debatable, are nonetheless valid. Essentially, same sex civil unions would be allowed, a marriage in the religious sense, no.

You miss the intricacies of the point. Valori is willing to countenance homosexual civil unions, both morally and legally, however a marriage contains moral and religious connotations that, whilst being debatable, are nonetheless valid. Essentially, same sex civil unions would be allowed, a marriage in the religious sense, no.

I'd argue my point, but he did it for me very well.

I'd argue my point, but he did it for me very well.

Why bother, we probably agree. I can't legislate against them in a secular union, but they could not have a religious union.

Civil unions don't carry the same rights and benefits as legal marriage do. And as for religion, some Churches do allow same-sex marriage to be performed.

Btw, marriage doesn't have to be recognized by a religious body. Marriage can be legally recoginized by the state, or Civil Marriage.

In some jurisdiction, civil unions don't carry the same rights and benefits as legal marriage do. And as for religion, some Churches do allow same-sex marriage to be performed.

What I was trying (poorly I know), to assert was that no religious establishment would be obliged to perform a single sex marraige if it found it objectionable. As for the legal rights, that ought to be rectified or the secular society.

I'd argue my point, but he did it for me very well.

But a marriage doesn't have to be religious. Are you opposed to civil same-sex marriages on the basis of past religious connotations of the word?

Also, in a secular society, where State and Church are theoretically distinct, how can you justify basing policies on religious considerations?

But a marriage doesn't have to be religious. Are you opposed to civil same-sex marriages on the basis of past religious connotations of the word?

Also, in a secular society, where State and Church are theoretically distinct, how can you justify basing policies on religious considerations?Pretty much what I said here. Marriage can also be CIVIL.

Some churches don't give a shit and perform same-sex marriage anyway...

To most people religion is a big part of marriage, and are we to completely change the beliefs and ideologies of others because there are a select few who do not agree with it. For example, say there was one political party, for this instance we will use the Democrats. So, there is opposition to the Democratic party, and there is another group of people who have completely different views. So, are we to combine the two parties into one party where the unhappy group switches people, or are we to create another party, such as Republicans, to allow all parties to be happy.

The thing is, if in the past we had combined unahappy groups, into a larger unhappy group then nothing ever would have happened (such as taking black people and white people and turning them into Afro Caucasians so they could vote together). Whereas, if we allow the group to be seperate, while still having equal opportunity, everyone gets what they want. Also, you assume that we have some set definition on Civil Unions. What a civil union allows, has yet to be discussed.

And the thing is, that in all of our countries that are involved in this debate not all states and religions are seperate. So can you justify allowing homosexual marriage in a religious states where their religion and state is againt homosexuality?

The thing is, if in the past we had combined unahappy groups, into a larger unhappy group then nothing ever would have happened (such as taking black people and white people and turning them into Afro Caucasians so they could vote together). Whereas, if we allow the group to be seperate, while still having equal opportunity, everyone gets what they want. Also, you assume that we have some set definition on Civil Unions. What a civil union allows, has yet to be discussed.Seems like you support racial segregation don't you? Way to back up your view on same-sex marriage.

And the thing is, that in all of our countries that are involved in this debate not all states and religions are seperate. So can you justify allowing homosexual marriage in a religious states where their religion and state is againt homosexuality?Tell you what, NationStates is not Jesusland.

pomposity will get you nothing!

why bribe us when you can just take our money for usThe UDCP doesn't believe in money. How can we take something for you if you nor we have it? ;)

And the thing is, that in all of our countries that are involved in this debate not all states and religions are seperate. So can you justify allowing homosexual marriage in a religious states where their religion and state is againt homosexuality?At least as much as somebody can justify not having religion and state separate, if not more. Can somebody justify not having religion and state separate?

As for Civil Unions, if we're going to have a debate on this before it is put into bill, we're going to have a large disagreement on which rights and benefits should Civil Unions have. Same-sex couples will have to wait longer to get "married".

The point is gays and lesbians WANT TO GET MARRIED, they want to have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Not binded by Civil Unions, which is a mediocre version of Civil Marriage.

The MLP supports equal rights for gay and straight partnerships. If that means gays want to devalue their relationships to little more than an economic union in the eyes of the state then so be it!

Seems like you support racial segregation don't you?

Oh Yes, because God forbid my cousin (who by the way is mixed) go to the same college as those who are completely white.
*Your assumed, blank statements are showing again, might want to cover them up*

My point is, that while we do not want to be forced to change our views we do not want to force our views onto other people (which is what you claim Conservatives do, when you are the one doing it right now). People are never going to agree on the subject of gay marriage, much like people are never going to agree on any other political subject, and by forcing one group to change their beliefs to appease the minority, you just agitate the majority.

The NSCP is willing to give homosexual men and women the right to be together, and to be joined together both politically and morally, however we refuse to call it a marriage. You and me are not going to agree on this discussion, however, we are willing to give a little (because we do realize that no one view will be 100% correct) however, it seems you are so deadset on imposing your rights on us that you would not allow them to be together unless it was given the title you wanted.

And once again, you assume that our definition of a Civil Union is that of the United States.

care to read it again?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10586670&postcount=439

Oh Yes, because God forbid my cousin (who by the way is mixed) go to the same college as those who are completely white.
*Your assumed, blank statements are showing again, might want to cover them up*Or maybe you want to cover this up:
The thing is, if in the past we had combined unahappy groups, into a larger unhappy group then nothing ever would have happened (such as taking black people and white people and turning them into Afro Caucasians so they could vote together).
----------------------------------------
however, it seems you are so deadset on imposing your rights on us that you would not allow them to be together unless it was given the title you wanted.As oppose to you denying same-sex couples the right to marry, which is even worst. They want to get married! That's the point!

The NSCP is willing to give homosexual men and women the right to be together, and to be joined together both politically and morally, however we refuse to call it a marriage.
I don't think anyone cares what the hell you call it or not. You are just a person.

But a government cannot take a moral position like this, one founded in bigotry, lack of understanding and refusal to accept change as a part of life. Whether or not John and James go to church and get married, what is it to me? How does that matter to anyone but themselves? How is trying to prevent them from having their wish anything but a vile encroachment on their livelihood, inspired by intolerance?

Many churches do gay marriages all the time, and are happy to do so. Since when is it up to a government to then meddle in these people's affairs?

All I am saying on this is that no government has the right to treat couples differently based on their gender. Gay couples will get the exact same contract to sign that hetero couples get. Whether or not they then go to a church and get married is up to them and the church.

care to read it again?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10586670&postcount=439

I don't need to read it again to realize I'm reading a post full of speculation. Everything you have argued against our ideas on same-sex marriage has been based on what you assume the NSCP represents. You have some preconceived notion that all Conservative's are a bunch of, as you so affectionately refer to them, Tories who refuse to allow people rights. You are so busy theorizing, and determining what our party thinks (based on your opinions), that you refuse to read what I have said. You refuse to get it into your head, that God forbid, we aren't the persecutory puritans that you want us to be, because it makes you feel a little better about your ideals and a little more sure about what Conservatives represent.

If you care to re-read my post, it states, "The NSCP is willing to give homosexual men and women the right to be together, and to be joined together both politically and morally, however we refuse to call it a marriage."

Now, if you are willing to drop your presumptions and you read what I said then you'll realize we are willing to give homosexual men and women rights to be together. Also, you will notice I said politically as well as morally. We don't want to stall how long they get married, and we don't want to forbid them from being a family, we want to allow them their rights. We just don't want to call it a marriage, and you can say they, "WANT TO GET MARRIED" in caps locks all you want, but the point is we seem to be the party out of the two who is willing to compromise. In fact, we seem to be the party who is offering them rights, and a means to accomplish it through exchanging ideas rather then taking one blank idea and statement and repeating it over and over until, hopefully, the other party gives in.

Although, this will be the end of my argument because my ears are ringing a little bit from having the same thing yelled in them over and over.

All I am saying on this is that no government has the right to treat couples differently based on their gender.

While I respect your opinion, all I'm saying is that the government also has no right to infringe on the people's rights and beliefs who are so vehemently against it. But then again who am I to respect what you think.

You have some preconceived notion that all Conservative's are a bunch of, as you so affectionately refer to them, Tories who refuse to allow people rights.
Tell me, what is Conservatism?

While I respect your opinion, all I'm saying is that the government also has no right to infringe on the people's rights and beliefs who are so vehemently against it.
"Right"? What, a right not to be offended?

Tell me, what is Conservatism?
There you go Valori.

"Right"? What, a right not to be offended?Funny, everytime I post my opinion on same-sex marriage, Valori felt offended. :D

Tell me, what is Conservatism?

My dear friend, I am 100% positive you are capable of pulling out a dictionary, although, I will humor your question.

A "Conservative" is A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order. (Dictionary.com)

However, you will find that that definition of Conservatism which everybody assumes to be the only definition has transfered to the neo-cons. While Conservatives do want to secure the established order, we do realize that (as I already stated before) we will not be 100% correct which is why we are realizing to give a lot to let everyone get a lot also.

Funny, everytime I post my opinion on same-sex marriage, Valori felt offended. :D

I am a Libertarian in a Liberal or Conservative world, I have learned not to get offended. I just get argumentative, although don't think I love you or your T-shirts any less. :cool:

Although, I don't mind debating as long as the thoughts are mine and not some copy, and pasted changed crap as I have unfortunately witnessed in this thread.

Btw, I'll be back for more debate. Gotta go walk my dog. Cya. ;)

This thread is filled with aggro. Why doesn't everybody just sit back for a second, take a deep breath, and then become a militant communist?

My dear friend, I am 100% positive you are capable of pulling out a dictionary, although, I will humor your question...
Hey, I've dealt with enough PoliSci to know the dictionary definitions. I am after your definition.

Neocons are a completely different breed, and no one has accused you of being such.

I just think you misunderstand what underlies conservatism.

I believe change and development is fundamental to human existence. It's the reason we exist. Conservatism doesn't believe that. It is deeply rooted in an almost religious sense that some sort of order always existed and always will, an order to which any change is necessarily a bad thing.
That is the reason you oppose things that shouldn't concern you in the least, like whether Swedish people can get married in a church (http://www.sweden.se/templates/cs/NewsML____12744.aspx?newsid=1117), even if they might both have the same genitals.

Essentially, Conservatism is the enemy of reason, of progress, of the free will of people to make their decisions. It believes that the individual is worth nothing, because anything individualistic it does would necessarily violate the established order, and is thus bad.

Conservatives don't believe in humans, they believe in traditions. And I will never ever accept such a demeaning philosophy.

I know this won't sound like it, but to say "Conservatism is just Fascism lite" is actually philosophically and conceptually correct. The mindset is the same.

This thread is filled with aggro. Why doesn't everybody just sit back for a second, take a deep breath, and then become a militant communist?

It's fun aggro though. We argue, and then go back to loving everybody until I have to argue to fix what others are saying.

So unfortunate that I have to clean up our trail.

I'm back...

... has been based on what you assume the NSCP represents... You are so busy theorizing, and determining what our party thinks (based on your opinions)Uhh, before you start ranting about me assuming what the Tories thinks, consider your old pal Mower:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10581654&postcount=327
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10581783&postcount=332

that you refuse to read what I have said.
Sure, whatever you say... :rolleyes:

Btw, four parties including the DSP supports civil same-sex marriage, your party refused to support that right.

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

The progressive choice

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

I think you missed the point of the poster. A human being themselves cannot be declared illegal, like has happened to immigrants. Only an action can be illegal.

I hate when you and I wind up agreeing.

That depends, can I use a fish?
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/5779/ultimatrout7nq.gif

Now that's the smiley I was looking for.:D

Has the NSCL confirmed yet? If not, I'll do whatever needs to be done.

Has the NSCL confirmed yet? If not, I'll do whatever needs to be done.Dunno, you got 2+ members and a manifesto.

Uhh, before you start ranting about me assuming what the Tories thinks, consider your old pal Mower

As I've already mentioned, unless what he is saying comes directly from the NSCP manifesto, act as if he has not said anything.

I'd love to take my personal opinion and use it to argue against you (we'd probably get along much better) but I can't, and will not, however my friend there gets a tad bit too into his own politics rather then that of the party.
In other words, don't argue with him, argue with me.

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/5779/ultimatrout7nq.gif

That's flippin awesome... Now I can do you that favor.


http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/5779/ultimatrout7nq.gif
~~~Me----Mowers

Debate on worker's rights and job outsourcing?

Dunno, you got 2+ members and a manifesto.

Alright, then I'll confirm that we're going to run. God only knows what our PR stuff is...I don't even know if we have any.

That's flippin awesome... Now I can do you that favor.


http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/5779/ultimatrout7nq.gif
~~~Me----Mowers
thanks, right on. :D

There you go again, TCR. You are taking what I said out of context. In my education post I mentioned that it was "A Conservative Education Plan" not "The Conservative Education Plan". So please, TCR, get off of a ridiculous topic that you seem to fret so much about.

In response to the ginormous fish I was just hit with,
"It's only a flesh wound"

BTW Neu Leonstein, if you really looked at the whole picture of the political spectrum and their success record in history, you will see that communism went down as the biggest failure of any government action taken in the history of mankind. Also, you are taking conservatism in an extremely distorted politically irrelevent form. If you look at Conservatism in the modern sense of the word, you will see that what Antonio (Valori) said is correct.

Debate on worker's rights and job outsourcing?

The NSCP supports the workers right to organize.

Support Your Right to Organize

Support

NSCONSERVATIVEPARTY

And that's all? Just a right to form a union?

You, the Conservatives made:
-No mention on job security
-No opinion on outsource of local jobs
-No mention of workers' protection, rights, and benefits

This time...
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif

There you go again, TCR. You are taking what I said out of context. In my education post I mentioned that it was "A Conservative Education Plan" not "The Conservative Education Plan". So please, TCR, get off of a ridiculous topic that you seem to fret so much about. Do you really know what Valori and I are talking about?

We're talking about this:

... has been based on what you assume the NSCP represents... You are so busy theorizing, and determining what our party thinks (based on your opinions)

A Communist/Socialist Plan for Education:
-Larger classes
-Underpaid teachers
-Failing test scores

The Commie/Socialist Education Philosophy

Throw Money at the Problem Until the Beuracracy Shuts Up

not this:

A CONSERVATIVE Plan for Education

BTW Neu Leonstein, if you really looked at the whole picture of the political spectrum and their success record in history, you will see that communism went down as the biggest failure of any government action taken in the history of mankind. Also, you are taking conservatism in an extremely distorted politically irrelevent form. If you look at Conservatism in the modern sense of the word, you will see that what Antonio (Valori) said is correct.Jesus... Neu Leonstein studied Political Science and you still criticize him? Shame...

I believe we should defend workers rights and freedom, a right to form unions, guarantee job security and benefits (such as heathcare and worker's compensation), ensure safety for each and everyone, and against outsourcing to cheap foreign labour markets. We are for job creation, not job outsourcing like American and Canadian companies practiced.

This time...
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gif

For anyone interested, here's the Birthday Party platform thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=10588214

VOTE Birthday Party, and Party ON!

It starts tomorrow (probably within the next ten to fourteen hours), and will last five days.1 to 5 hours 'til election week!!! :p :p :p

Anybody still want to debate on certian topics before voters "X" mark the spot in a few hours?... ;)

This time...

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8409/dsp1b0bp.gif

A fresh new government that works for everybody.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/263/dsp1blittle0rh.gifPlease visit the official DSP thread for our 2006 Manifesto.

BTW Neu Leonstein, if you really looked at the whole picture of the political spectrum and their success record in history, you will see that communism went down as the biggest failure of any government action taken in the history of mankind.
Well, there were some pretty bad ones before, and there will be pretty bad ones after. Nonetheless, since I am neither with the MLP nor the UDCP, I don't know what that has to do with anything.
I suggest you do me the same favour I did you, and read my party's manifesto.

Also, you are taking conservatism in an extremely distorted politically irrelevent form. If you look at Conservatism in the modern sense of the word, you will see that what Antonio (Valori) said is correct.
I don't think I disagreed with him. I just went into a bit more detail to look at the underlying belief system. Unless you know this, you can't understand how I feel about Conservatism.

But I suppose I have to ask you as well: What is your personal definition of Conservatism?

Jesus... Neu Leonstein studied Political Science and you still criticize him? Shame...
Well, strictly speaking it was Political Economy, but it comes out the same thing. ;)

The election has begun (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=473476).

Debate on worker's rights and job outsourcing?

JUST SAY NO...
TO BOSSES

if you really looked at the whole picture of the political spectrum and their success record in history, you will see that communism went down as the biggest failure of any government action taken in the history of mankind. How can communism be listed as a government action that's failed when it's never been a government action at all?

TCR and NL, what have I said.....

Where's my fish....

TCR and NL, what have I said.....
Who cares about that now? The vote has started! :p