NationStates Jolt Archive

No, I do not mean the evil thing known as the EU.

Anyway, I think europe (especially Poland) is a good place because it does not have bush or the superbowl, as the superbowl is a waste of our time. Also, it actually has some past, unlike america, which is prolly the youngest nation in the world. Also, contrary to popular belief, Europe has more freedom than America, because bush took away some of america's freedoms.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.

move to switzerland.

move to switzerland.
why??

Anyway, I think europe (especially Poland) is a good place because it does not have bush or the superbowl, as the superbowl is a waste of our time.
Well, I guess I agree. But then, Americans might say the same thing about the World Cup.

Also, it actually has some past, unlike america, which is prolly the youngest nation in the world.
I think that honour goes to East Timor.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.
No, if you think Europe is threatened, it's your job to change the EU, not to sit on the sidelines yelling profanities.

why??
They don't like the EU. They also don't like "dem damn immigants!"

the EU has its problems, but it is not evil and the idea is hardly a bad one.

i do love Europe, and i do love the history and culture - they are some things to be proud of. however there is a difference between respecting those and being stuck blindly following tradition...

why??
Because it's in Europe but not the EU?

Or Norway.

No, I do not mean the evil thing known as the EU.

Anyway, I think europe (especially Poland) is a good place because it does not have bush or the superbowl, as the superbowl is a waste of our time. Also, it actually has some past, unlike america, which is prolly the youngest nation in the world. Also, contrary to popular belief, Europe has more freedom than America, because bush took away some of america's freedoms.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.

You and the EU again.

What? D'you get all hot and sweaty everytime someone mentions the word.... FEDERALISM! Boo!

I know I'll regret it, but please refresh the memory again about how exactly Europe is 'threatened' by the EU? Have you come up with a better line then 'Sovereignty!' yet?

Well, I guess I agree. But then, Americans might say the same thing about the World Cup.
Who cares, americans do not know what sports are good and which are not.


I think that honour goes to East Timor.
Ever heard of an exaggeration??

No, if you think Europe is threatened, it's your job to change the EU, not to sit on the sidelines yelling profanities.
Change change to destroy, and you will have it right.

You and the EU again.

What? D'you get all hot and sweaty everytime someone mentions the word.... FEDERALISM! Boo!

I know I'll regret it, but please refresh the memory again about how exactly Europe is 'threatened' by the EU? Have you come up with a better line then 'Sovereignty!' yet?
What are you another of those anti-nationalsts?? Are you against the concept of sorvereignty, and think its a bad explaination just from that?

Because it's in Europe but not the EU?yes and it is not merely in europe, it is in the heart of europe or maybe the duodenum.

The EU is the future of Europe. A common trading zone with a standardized currency that allows free movement between its member nations is a windfall in terms of the economic, cultural, political, and social development the come with easier interaction between nations.

It may not be perfect, but it is a vast improvement over the system that existed prior to its inception. The expansion of the EU enables the nations of Europe to take responsibility and action for maintaining and expanding the economic opportunities of its member states as well as determining a central policy to address the issues of each member state in to the future.

Hopefully, the EU is the beginning of an evolution towards a global organization.

i love europe too , i love living in europe i love being from two european countrys ( i am an Irish Italian ) and i love the E.U. ,for i have seen single handly the good things it have done for my countrys and for all of europe and i also think europe is the best place in the world , for the people , culture , history , and places , oh and yes ireland is the best of all

for proof check out those sites lol .

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6529893


http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/1117/ireland.html

They don't like the EU. They also don't like "dem damn immigants!"

*Sigh*....Switzerland, maybe the last noble nation in Europe. How I love the Swiss and their country. Mainly the SVP, though.;)

What are you another of those anti-nationalsts?? Are you against the concept of sorvereignty, and think its a bad explaination just from that?

Nationalism is a dying concept. It has been responsible for numerous wars, economic devastation, mass oppression, and the sacrifice of individual rights and freedoms in favor of "the nation". The future lies in international cooperation and free flow of ideas regardless of borders. Surely Europe would recognize the dangers of nationalism more than anything.

No, I do not mean the evil thing known as the EU.

Anyway, I think europe (especially Poland) is a good place because it does not have bush or the superbowl, as the superbowl is a waste of our time. Also, it actually has some past, unlike america, which is prolly the youngest nation in the world. Also, contrary to popular belief, Europe has more freedom than America, because bush took away some of america's freedoms.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.

You know...if you want to make a thread about how great Europe is, thats fine. But are you really that self conscious about Europe that the only way to make it seem good is to put down America, grow up. I love America, but I dont have to show my love by saying, "America is awesome, and it will actually have a future, unline Europe, probably the most outdated area of the world." No, I dont have to, and you shouldnt either...but thats just my thought.

*Sigh*....Switzerland, maybe the last noble nation in Europe. How I love the Swiss and their country. Mainly the SVP, though.;)
Yeah. whean you look at it, and then the other nations, you see how much a threat the EU is to europe.

Who cares, americans do not know what sports are good and which are not.


Wow...that could be the dumbest statement EVER. I guess youv never heard of basketball, nor have you ever heard that Europeans play cricket....:p

Nationalism is a dying concept. It has been responsible for numerous wars, economic devastation, mass oppression,on the contrary, the attempts of regimes, who tried to build "advanced social orders" (socialism) to suppress nationalism has led to misery, oppression and massmurder, the soviet union, yugoslavia and germany are recent examples of that.

Nationalism is a dying concept. It has been responsible for numerous wars, economic devastation, mass oppression, and the sacrifice of individual rights and freedoms in favor of "the nation". The future lies in international cooperation and free flow of ideas regardless of borders. Surely Europe would recognize the dangers of nationalism more than anything.
Okay. first I said"sovereignty", not "nationalism" theres a diifernce.

Yeah. whean you look at it, and then the other nations, you see how much a threat the EU is to europe.

I wouldnt call it a threat, I would just say that the whole EU concept matches most of Europes current idealogy, however it does not come close to the Swiss's idealogy, which is why it isnt really a threat to any country, just not what the Swiss want.

I love Europe. :)

http://pmaci.customer.netspace.net.au/zo.htm

You guys might want to look at the "Zollverein". I think if we had this website in the 1850s, we might be having the exact same discussion about "National Sovereignty" and all the rest of it.

Wow...that could be the dumbest statement EVER. I guess youv never heard of basketball, nor have you ever heard that Europeans play cricket....:p
Cricket is not american. Also, basketball is a bad sport.

on the contrary, the attempts of regimes, who tried to build "advanced social orders" (socialism) to suppress nationalism has led to misery, oppression and massmurder, the soviet union, yugoslavia and germany are recent examples of that.

Generally, we could say that any attempt to force a particular method of social engineering on people is going to lead to oppression, murder, war, and mass hardship.

People should be free to pursue their own interests and exercise their freedoms in all cirumstances; social engineering is almost always an attempt to capitalize on fear or hardship to achieve policy goals that a rational observer would see as abhorrent.

I wouldnt call it a threat, I would just say that the whole EU concept matches most of Europes current idealogy, however it does not come close to the Swiss's idealogy, which is why it isnt really a threat to any country, just not what the Swiss want.
I disagree with you.

*Sigh*....Switzerland, maybe the last noble nation in Europe. How I love the Swiss and their country. Mainly the SVP, though.;)

And the chocolate, I wager? ;)

Mmmm... Chocolate :fluffle:

Okay. first I said"sovereignty", not "nationalism" theres a diifernce.

More often than not, there is no difference. Usually, "national sovereignty" only comes under attack when a nation sees itself being threatened by a new competitior, often from outside. This leads to a desire to protect national interests at any costs, with the result being protectionism and isolationism, and from there economic stagnation and decline.

Either that, or the nation decides to remove the competition entirely through war. Regardless of the methods, national sovereignty is often the same as nationalism, only a different title. There is nothing wrong with protecting national interests when they are unfairly taken advantage of, but that occurs rarely at best.

And the chocolate, I wager? ;)

Mmmm... Chocolate :fluffle:
Well, i like Swiss Chochlate.

Okay. first I said"sovereignty", not "nationalism" theres a diifernce.
So what difference would it make to you, as an individual, whether your governmental decisions were madein London, or whether they were made in another democracy?

No difference whatsoever to your daily life. You have no power now- you would have the same then ;)

More often than not, there is no difference. Usually, "national sovereignty" only comes under attack when a nation sees itself being threatened by a new competitior, often from outside. This leads to a desire to protect national interests at any costs, with the result being protectionism and isolationism, and from there economic stagnation and decline.

Either that, or the nation decides to remove the competition entirely through war. Regardless of the methods, national sovereignty is often the same as nationalism, only a different title. There is nothing wrong with protecting national interests when they are unfairly taken advantage of, but that occurs rarely at best.
Actualy, did you notice the word "national" was not in that previous post of mine.

Actualy, did you notice the word "national" was not in that previous post of mine.

What other kind of sovereignity does the EU deal with? It's a political union whose decisions affect the member states, and therefore any conflict in regard to EU membership would surely have to be drawn from national concerns.

I love Europe. I live there, I was born there and I can hardly vote anything else when I'm a member of an European Student Union now, can I?

I disagree with you.

Well, please, I'd love to hear why...

Cricket is not american. Also, basketball is a bad sport.

I never said it was, I said in case youv never noticed, you guys play cricket....so you cant call American sports dumb. Also, basketball is the best sport in the world.

*Loves basketball*

What other kind of sovereignity does the EU deal with? It's a political union whose decisions affect the member states, and therefore any conflict in regard to EU membership would surely have to be drawn from national concerns.
Look. I do not want Poland to become a puppet of any evil group, and the same goes with any other nation even. Thtas why I hate the EU. End of the story!

I never said it was, I said in case youv never noticed, you guys play cricket....so you cant call American sports dumb. Also, basketball is the best sport in the world.

*Loves basketball*
Actually basketball sucks. Football is better

Look. I do not want Poland to become a puppet of any evil group, and the same goes with any other nation even. Thtas why I hate the EU. End of the story!

The EU is evil? Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Look. I do not want Poland to become a puppet of any evil group, and the same goes with any other nation even. Thtas why I hate the EU. End of the story!
Please define "evil".

*Likes Cricket*

And the chocolate, I wager? ;)

Mmmm... Chocolate :fluffle:

Well that too. But mainly, I like how the Swiss think, socially (conservative) and economically (conservative)...I also like thier immigration process, and I like their Direct Democracy.

*Loves Switzerland:) *

Well, please, I'd love to hear why...
I say that all nations in Europe were once noble, but this has been destroyed by the evil EU.

Well that too. But mainly, I like how the Swiss think, socially (conservative) and economically (conservative)...I also like thier immigration process, and I like their Direct Democracy.

*Loves Switzerland:) *


I second that, being part swiss.

Look. I do not want Poland to become a puppet of any evil group, and the same goes with any other nation even. Thtas why I hate the EU. End of the story!

So it is national sovereignty. You don't want you're nation to be "controlled" by any organization.

European nations stand to benefit from the EU. It provides a common market and facilitates the exchange of ideas, products, and people across borders without significant difficulty. A nation like Poland could do extrememly well if it joined the EU, with at least $23.2 billion in aid as well as more investment to help alleviate the crippling unemployment rate.

Please define "evil".

*Likes Cricket*
You do not know what evil is?? Anyway, I use it as a term to rrefer to anything that is athreat to the world.

The EU is evil? Sounds like a conspiracy theory.
define "conspiracy theory"

So it is national sovereignty. You don't want you're nation to be "controlled" by any organization.

European nations stand to benefit from the EU. It provides a common market and facilitates the exchange of ideas, products, and people across borders without significant difficulty. A nation like Poland could do extrememly well if it joined the EU, with at least $23.2 billion in aid as well as more investment to help alleviate the crippling unemployment rate.
Actually, the Eu does not benefit its members. It does the opposite.

Ok, HOW is the EU evil?

Jeesh, its like drawing blood from a stone.

Actually, the Eu does not benefit its members. It does the opposite.

Explain Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal.

Actually, the Eu does not benefit its members. It does the opposite.

Really? I seem to recall that the EU has dramatically increased the trade between nations, generated considerable gains in trade related employment, increased the competitiveness of the European labor market as well as provided funds to develop infrastructure in it Eastern European members.

Not to mention the EU provides a strong force to guarantee the preservation of individual rights and freedoms in its member states.

Ok, HOW is the EU evil?

Jeesh, its like drawing blood from a stone.
look. The EU is doing bad things to its members. Finland is a good example.

Look. I do not want Poland to become a puppet of any evil group, and the same goes with any other nation even. Thtas why I hate the EU. End of the story!

Look dude, here it is. The EU is the only hope for many Euro countries to actually have some wieght in the political world. With America staying on top, China and Japan rising, Europe just cant compete on an individual level.

This is even more true for former commie nations in East Europe, like your country, Poland. Poland is not the greatest of countries. While you can attribute some of that to being behind the Iron curtain for 50 years, Poland has always been overshadowed by Germany and Russia, and has sort of always been everyone bitch. Now here comes the EU, your countries only chance to change all that, to make it a strong country that I know a nationalistic Pole like you would want for his country.

Basically there are only two kinds of countries that should reject the EU. Countries that wont join it because they want to remain politcally nuetral, more or less, like Switzerland (among other reasons), and countries whos economy is astounding like Germany, even though Germany is still spearheading the EU. Poland doesnt seem to fall into place of either of those catagories, and you should be extreamily happy that you are fortunate to have a EU to take all the 2nd rate Eastern Euro and Balkan countries, bring them under the EU's wing, sacrficice huge ammounts of money from Western and Northern Europe, all to bring you guys up to par.

Personally, I'm against the EU, but only because I'm an American, and I dont want to see Europe getting more power, but I'm a biased sorce. HOWEVER, if I was a Euro, I would be pro EU because its the only glimpse of hope for your continent (save Germany) to play a role and be able to throw some weight around in the geo-political world.

You do not know what evil is??
Everyone defines it differently.

Anyway, I use it as a term to rrefer to anything that is athreat to the world.
Notice how this is a circular argument?

You say the EU is evil because it is a threat to the world because you don't want an evil organisation to take over your country.

Really? I seem to recall that the EU has dramatically increased the trade between nations, generated considerable gains in trade related employment, increased the competitiveness of the European labor market as well as provided funds to develop infrastructure in it Eastern European members.

Not to mention the EU provides a strong force to guarantee the preservation of individual rights and freedoms in its member states.
Actually Finland has an economy problem now, and it is caused by being an EU member.

*Likes Cricket*

Bastard...

Everyone defines it differently.


Notice how this is a circular argument?

You say the EU is evil because it is a threat to the world because you don't want an evil organisation to take over your country.
I did not say that evil means "a threat to the world", I just use it when talking about things that are.

look. The EU is doing bad things to its members. Finland is a good example.
SPECIFICS!

What bad things is an economic community doing to Finland? Spoiling the secret about Santa and Lapland?

I say that all nations in Europe were once noble, but this has been destroyed by the evil EU.

NOBLE! Ha!....Half your continent was under the influence of an evil empire, the other half was recovering from the worst war in history, not too mention one of the worst displays of humanity in history.

Bastard...
Why is he a bastard??

*hates EU*

NOBLE! Ha!....Half your continent was under the influence of an evil empire, the other half was recovering from the worst war in history, not too mention one of the worst displays of humanity in history.
well, just cause it was taken over by nazi germany does not automatically make it not noble...

SPECIFICS!

What bad things is an economic community doing to Finland? Spoiling the secret about Santa and Lapland?
Okay. Before joining the EU Finland had an enconomy problem. They thougth that "the benefits of EU membership" would help end it. however, EU membership made it worse, and just from that, Finland should leave the EU, and so should everyone else.

Actually Finland has an economy problem now, and it is caused by being an EU member.

Finland's recession was caused by the collapse of the USSR, which annihilated 20% of its foreign trade.

Even so, following its accession to the EU its economy has grown at a healthy clip, with unemployment falling from its peak of 16.6% in 1994 to around 7.9% now. GDP has grown at above 2% over the past 5 years, with the 2004 rate at 3.6% and the 2006 rate at 3.2%. Industrial production and exports have grown strongly while inflation remains tame.

well, just cause it was taken over by nazi germany does not automatically make it not noble...

No, but the fact is that those countries were engaging in war, some collaberting with the Nazis, some not. There was nothing noble about Europe during WWII. And we are not even discussing the other side up Europe..INCLUDING your country.

Why is he a bastard??

*hates EU*

Because he likes cricket, it was a joke...relax..and anyway why dont you reply to post #51 I made....tell me what you think.

Finland's recession was caused by the collapse of the USSR, which annihilated 20% of its foreign trade.

Even so, following its accession to the EU its economy has grown at a healthy clip, with unemployment falling from its peak of 16.6% in 1994 to around 7.9% now. GDP has grown at above 2% over the past 5 years, with the 2004 rate at 3.6% and the 2006 rate at 3.2%. Industrial production and exports have grown strongly while inflation remains tame.
Who cares about the cause. EU membership mad it worse.

Who cares about the cause. EU membership mad it worse.

No, actually the statistics I provided show a Finland that has seen improvement in its GDP growth, real income, unemployment rate, industrial production, and net exports since its joining of the EU in 1999.

Who cares about the cause. EU membership mad it worse.
Let's see your evidence, then.

Look dude, here it is. The EU is the only hope for many Euro countries to actually have some wieght in the political world. With America staying on top, China and Japan rising, Europe just cant compete on an individual level.

This is even more true for former commie nations in East Europe, like your country, Poland. Poland is not the greatest of countries. While you can attribute some of that to being behind the Iron curtain for 50 years, Poland has always been overshadowed by Germany and Russia, and has sort of always been everyone bitch. Now here comes the EU, your countries only chance to change all that, to make it a strong country that I know a nationalistic Pole like you would want for his country.

Basically there are only two kinds of countries that should reject the EU. Countries that wont join it because they want to remain politcally nuetral, more or less, like Switzerland (among other reasons), and countries whos economy is astounding like Germany, even though Germany is still spearheading the EU. Poland doesnt seem to fall into place of either of those catagories, and you should be extreamily happy that you are fortunate to have a EU to take all the 2nd rate Eastern Euro and Balkan countries, bring them under the EU's wing, sacrficice huge ammounts of money from Western and Northern Europe, all to bring you guys up to par.

Personally, I'm against the EU, but only because I'm an American, and I dont want to see Europe getting more power, but I'm a biased sorce. HOWEVER, if I was a Euro, I would be pro EU because its the only glimpse of hope for your continent (save Germany) to play a role and be able to throw some weight around in the geo-political world.
Actuall, You are wrong. Europe does not need the EU. Look at Switzerland.

Let's see your evidence, then.
ever read this "up with eurpe, down with the EU" thing?

Ok, so even in spite of facts presented to you saying you are in fact incorrect- you still maintain it is bad for all, correct?

Now, explain how it has been bad for Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal?

Actuall, You are wrong. Europe does not need the EU. Look at Switzerland.

Actually, the Swiss government has changed its laws to be standardized with those of the EU member states. They are free from the organization in name and politics only; economically thay are 100% integrated with the EU.

Ok, so even in fact in spite of facts presented to you saying you are in fact incorrect- you still maintain it is bad for all, correct?

Now, explain how it has been bad for Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal?
Are you now saying that it was good for most members its good for all. because its not.

Actually, the Swiss government has changed its laws to be standardized with those of the EU member states. They are free from the organization in name and politics only; economically thay are 100% integrated with the EU.
Soooo...

Are you now saying that it was good for most members its good for all. because its not.

You said it was bad for everyone- and that EVERYONE SHOULD LEAVE.

I have given you 4 countries that it has benefited immediately.

You are talking shit.

Soooo...

So that means that Switzerland isn't an example of a successful non-EU state, since economically it is tied to the EU and its laws are identical to EU policy. The only reason why they aren't a member is because of their historical neutrality.

You said it was bad for everyone- and that EVERYONE SHOULD LEAVE.

I have given you 4 countries that it has benefited immediately.

You are talking shit.
Well, just causr that they benefitted at first does not mean it will always be that way. becaus it wil not.

So that means that Switzerland isn't an example of a successful non-EU state, since economically it is tied to the EU and its laws are identical to EU policy. The only reason why they aren't a member is because of their historical neutrality.
sooo...

Actuall, You are wrong. Europe does not need the EU. Look at Switzerland.

What the hell is wrong with you. I just posted a whole freaking story that includes Switzerland as an example...and you just say..look at Switzerland.

That doesnt make sense...I'm starting to wonder, is this Soviet programming in you? Are you unable to think, read, and adopt new ideas from your readings. Damn...you guys over there in the former Soviet bloc need the EU more than I thought. My heart goes out to all you guys.

What the hell is wrong with you. I just posted a whole freaking story that includes Switzerland as an example...and you just say..look at Switzerland.

That doesnt make sense...I'm starting to wonder, is this Soviet programming in you? Are you unable to think, read, and adopt new ideas from your readings. Damn...you guys over there in the former Soviet bloc need the EU more than I thought. My heart goes out to all you guys.
Actually I am very anti-commie and anti-Ussr.

Actually I am very anti-commie and anti-Ussr.

No wonder, look what 50 years of it did to your mind!

Well, just causr that they benefitted at first does not mean it will always be that way. becaus it wil not.

So, how do you foresee it not benefiting countries in the long term then?

You have still to back up any of your unfounded, irrational fears.

No wonder, look what 50 years of it did to your mind!
No. Look communism is worse than nazism. I don't even waanna talk with u.

Damn...you guys over there in the former Soviet bloc need the EU more than I thought. My heart goes out to all you guys.
You shouldn't generalise. Poland was once a powerful kingdom, they were one of the first nations with a proper constitution (earlier than the States I believe) and it all went to shambles because despots and tyrants destroyed them.

Since then Poland's been f*cked time and time again by various people, and only late in the 20th century have they managed to shake that off (Solidarnosc and all that). So as a result many Poles are sceptical that so soon they are supposed to give their relative independence away again.

But that's not a majority view. Most Poles realise that it's a good deal for them.

EU is sure to fall appart soon. Europe's only hope is Russia, and the way they trat Russia will determine if the Federation will support their needs for resources for reasonable prices. Europe has NO resources, they have depleated everything, and they historically depended on kikcing their neighbors ass or colonization for profits. Current world politics doesnt allow them to do either anymore..

Europe divides into the following
Worthy Nations:

Among the few European nations worthy of respect are Germany, UK,The Scandinavian nations (still with some room for resource and social development)

Political Prostitutes and Sell-offs and wannabes(Poland, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Bulgarians, Georgians, etc..)

I dont even see why there is a EU, throughout history Europe has never really been together, why they hell should they be now? Europe has always lived off someone elses account...they basically allowed arabs to populate European nations for cheap labor (sort of like the US did during the Industrial Revolution in the early 1800s), now those same Arabs are creating issues. Europe has absolutely no resources which they can develop to sustain their mini-"empire"
Which is exactly why Europe is on it's hind legs on trying to weaken resource-rich Russia and distance CIS nations by using pseudo-doctrine of democratic structure at the same time practicing double standards...

Plus why would you want to live in a country like the Netherlands... (legalized drugs, gay marriages, and prostitution).

This is very vague information...however when you put it together and look more into the details, Europe is degrading socially (yes allowing gays to prosper and spread is social degradation in my oppinion, economically, and the "selloffs" are losing significance (they only reason west and NATO needs them is for geopolitic reasons and emperial presence.)

Again, EU fall is inevitable..the worthy nations will find their way, the other will perish once again under another empire of some sort.

Personally I support a US/Russian/German partnership against the oncoming asian threat which may one way devestate us all.

P.S: Poland an Empire pssshhh...they got their asses kicked by eveyrone possible, and the only reason they exist is because Russia gave their kingdom a pretty big peice of land...and they were able to tear a bit from germany too (near gdansk)

You shouldn't generalise. Poland was once a powerful kingdom, they were one of the first nations with a proper constitution (earlier than the States I believe) and it all went to shambles because despots and tyrants destroyed them.


"In 1791 the Sejm of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth adopted the Constitution of May 3, Europe's first modern codified constitution, and the second in the world after the Constitution of the United States." www.wikipedia.com America had the first, Poland had Europes first.

Since then Poland's been f*cked time and time again by various people, and only late in the 20th century have they managed to shake that off (Solidarnosc and all that). So as a result many Poles are sceptical that so soon they are supposed to give their relative independence away again.


Right...but the effects and influence of Communism in Eastern Europe have not worn off in a mere 15 or so years, which was my point.

But that's not a majority view. Most Poles realise that it's a good deal for them.

Yes, seeing as how Poland as a whole is pro-EU

I love Europe, and I love the EU too.

In fact, as I have mentioned before and will probably do so again, it would tickle me pink if Canada were capable of entering.

The EU is a wonderful example of economic cooperation, and demonstrates how people can benefit from increased trade. I do like Canadian money, and think that it is important to have our Head of State (Our Queen) on it; but I would certainly rather start using the Euro rather than the US Dollar (As is perennially suggested here). I think the whole Schengen Area idea is brilliant. Being from a small/middle-sized country (In population), I can certainly see the advantages that being part of the EU has when dealing in multilateral negotiations.

Sure there are bound to be problems and disagreements now and then, but in my opinion there is far more to be gained through cooperation than by putting up barriers to it.

P.S.: I came upon this thread while taking a break from trying to narrow my graduate research essay topic, which is on Canada-EU trade; that is why it piqued my interest and generated such a big reaction. Really, though, I would say that overall the EU is a swell institution.

No. Look communism is worse than nazism. I don't even waanna talk with u.

That may be...but Nazism didnt stay with western Europe up till the turn of the century, Communism did (with the east, that is). Therefore, it is very possible that its influence has not lifted off you guys over there.

EU is sure to fall appart soon. Europe's only hope is Russia, and the way they trat Russia will determine if the Federation will support their needs for resources for reasonable prices. Europe has NO resources, they have depleated everything, and they historically depended on kikcing their neighbors ass or colonization for profits. Current world politics doesnt allow them to do either anymore..

Europe divides into the following
Worthy Nations:

Among the few European nations worthy of respect are Germany, UK,The Scandinavian nations (still with some room for resource and social development)

Political Prostitutes and Sell-offs and wannabes(Poland, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Bulgarians, Georgians, etc..)

I dont even see why there is a EU, throughout history Europe has never really been together, why they hell should they be now? Europe has always lived off someone elses account...they basically allowed arabs to populate European nations for cheap labor (sort of like the US did during the Industrial Revolution in the early 1800s), now those same Arabs are creating issues. Europe has absolutely no resources which they can develop to sustain their mini-"empire"
Which is exactly why Europe is on it's hind legs on trying to weaken resource-rich Russia and distance CIS nations by using pseudo-doctrine of democratic structure at the same time practicing double standards...

Plus why would you want to live in a country like the Netherlands... (legalized drugs, gay marriages, and prostitution).

This is very vague information...however when you put it together and look more into the details, Europe is degrading socially (yes allowing gays to prosper and spread is social degradation in my oppinion, economically, and the "selloffs" are losing significance (they only reason west and NATO needs them is for geopolitic reasons and emperial presence.)

Again, EU fall is inevitable..the worthy nations will find their way, the other will perish once again under another empire of some sort.

Personally I support a US/Russian/German partnership against the oncoming asian threat which may one way devestate us all.

P.S: Poland an Empire pssshhh...they got their asses kicked by eveyrone possible, and the only reason they exist is because Russia gave their kingdom a pretty big peice of land...and they were able to tear a bit from germany too (near gdansk)

Well, aside from some extreame views and your own history in there...you do make a couple good points mixed into it somewhere. :p

EU is sure to fall appart soon. Europe's only hope is Russia,
HAH!


and the way they trat Russia will determine if the Federation will support their needs for resources for reasonable prices. Europe has NO resources, they have depleated everything, and they historically depended on kikcing their neighbors ass or colonization for profits. Current world politics doesnt allow them to do either anymore..
Techonology my friend, education leading to technology is the only resource that matters in the 21st C. Stop thinking in the 1800's mentality of coal, and steel.


Europe divides into the following
Worthy Nations:

Among the few European nations worthy of respect are Germany, UK,The Scandinavian nations (still with some room for resource and social development)

Political Prostitutes and Sell-offs and wannabes(Poland, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Bulgarians, Georgians, etc..)

Sorry? Georgians? *Did I sleep through a geog class or two in school?*
And nevermind, Italy, France, Benelux, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Portugal, and the others. Pfft... who cares about them :rolleyes:


I dont even see why there is a EU, throughout history Europe has never really been together, why they hell should they be now?
Thats kinda the whole point...


Which is exactly why Europe is on it's hind legs on trying to weaken resource-rich Russia and distance CIS nations by using pseudo-doctrine of democratic structure at the same time practicing double standards..
Resource rich, yet politically corrupt, inept and an all round bully (see Ukraine). I doubt Europe would WANT to associate themselves with that sort of 'partner'.

Plus why would you want to live in a country like the Netherlands... (legalized drugs, gay marriages, and prostitution).
Why would you want to live in Russia? Ask a stupid question....


This is very vague information..
Yeah, you're right- it IS vague.

Europe is degrading socially (yes allowing gays to prosper and spread is social degradation in my oppinion, economically, and the "selloffs" are losing significance (they only reason west and NATO needs them is for geopolitic reasons and emperial presence.)
You say 'degrading'- We say 'evolving'


Again, EU fall is inevitable..the worthy nations will find their way, the other will perish once again under another empire of some sort.
Empire? I doubt it mate- the EU IS an Empire


Personally I support a US/Russian/German partnership against the oncoming asian threat which may one way devestate us all.

ah, yes. The obligatory 'Asian' hordes! :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Psychotic Mongooses]HAH!


Techonology my friend, education leading to technology is the only resource that matters in the 21st C. Stop thinking in the 1800's mentality of coal, and steel.


No matter how much technology has progressed....everything collides inot resources, it always had throughout history, there no reason it should stop now. Thats just how the world works im sorry. And plus what does Europe have to offer, sure alot of interesting new progrmas and technologies that nobody can afford, and no financial resources to keep them running until someone gaisn money and interest to realize them...

Lookin on the otherside Chocholate, watches, and Eurofighters (again who nobody can afford, and not that legendary at all) can really make a whole slum of money... enough to keep the evolved legalized and fully gay pseudo-empire runnin :p

P.S yeasterdays iron coal and steel is todays oil, uranium, and aluminium :)

"asian hordes..." yeah...only now they have nukes...and they are telling you what to do at the workplace.. Fair? I think not. US is too much of a worthy nation to have its populace and workforce slowly be dominated by asian empire-builders

Well, out of the G8... how many are European states? I don't think Europe is economically doomed at all... not for a long long time. ;)

US is too much of a worthy nation to have its populace and workforce slowly be dominated by asian empire-builders
You'll enjoy this lengthy article. That is, if people with your views enjoy reading. I have my doubts.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,398844,00.html

HAH!
Techonology my friend, education leading to technology is the only resource that matters in the 21st C. Stop thinking in the 1800's mentality of coal, and steel.

This is what I can't stand about the EU though. Tony Blair has it right. A modern, forward looking Europe that emphasises technology and science. Instead we get farm subsidies. I mean for fuck's sake! And I really don't like the whole integration at all costs mentality. People seem to forget that membership of the EU is primarily intended to benefit the countires. It shouldn't be an excuse to propose redundant legislation and bureaucracy in some misguided attempt to bind countries together byu aseries of more and more stringent obligations.

You'll enjoy this lengthy article. That is, if people with your views enjoy reading. I have my doubts.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,398844,00.html

Hmm..this certainly does have some interesting articles, even if I dont totally agree with them. Right now I am reading about "What American conservatives need to know about Europe".

I'm proud to be European with all the rich cultural diversities we have and I'm happy we have the EU, it may not be great, but it's up to us to make it better.

Europe is OK. Like America, Japan, the Middle-East, Hell... everywhere, it has it's upsides and it's downsides. I'd certainly prefer to live in Europe than a number of places I could mention.

I like living here. And I also like the EU, for various reasons. It did do a lot to promote cultural exchange between nations, therefore doing a brilliant job in softening up old and ancient animosities, it is a stabilising force. It could do with a more democratic concept, and a process that's possible to follow without a PhD in economics.
Other than that, I greatly profited from it, as it allowed me to move to Ireland and get a job here without any paperwork at all. :D

I like living here. And I also like the EU, for various reasons. It did do a lot to promote cultural exchange between nations, therefore doing a brilliant job in softening up old and ancient animosities, it is a stabilising force. It could do with a more democratic concept, and a process that's possible to follow without a PhD in economics.
Other than that, I greatly profited from it, as it allowed me to move to Ireland and get a job here without any paperwork at all. :D

I have a question about that. I believe that an EU citizen can live anywhere in the EU, correct,? But how do things like voting and social services work. Can a german vote in irish elections after having lived there for long enough, or do you have to become an irish citizen?

Other than that, I greatly profited from it, as it allowed me to move to Ireland and get a job here without any paperwork at all. :D
Hehe, me too, and we're not even in the EU :D

edit: right... err... Switzerland, that is...

I have a question about that. I believe that an EU citizen can live anywhere in the EU, correct,? But how do things like voting and social services work. Can a german vote in irish elections after having lived there for long enough, or do you have to become an irish citizen?

I can vote in EU election, and I think in local elections. Government elections I can't participate in unless I'm Irish citizen. As far as I know....

I can vote in EU election, and I think in local elections. Government elections I can't participate in unless I'm Irish citizen. As far as I know....

ah, ta much.

I really should know this, but I've never bothered to check it out.

ah, ta much.

I really should know this, but I've never bothered to check it out.

Well, I'm not 100% sure about those local elections... to be honest, I never voted here before

Well, I'm not 100% sure about those local elections... to be honest, I never voted here before

Well I was just curious in case I decided to ever move back to europe, but didn't go back to the UK. (Which would be highly unlikely).

Yes, seeing as how Poland as a whole is pro-EU
Actually that was back in 2003. Now, 35% of all poles are anti-EU.

Well, I'm not 100% sure about those local elections... to be honest, I never voted here before
Don't worry. Hardly anyone bothers to vote in local elections.

After 5 years you can get residency- pretty much makes you a citizen and all the 'benefits' it brings.

This is what I can't stand about the EU though. Tony Blair has it right. A modern, forward looking Europe that emphasises technology and science. Instead we get farm subsidies. I mean for fuck's sake! And I really don't like the whole integration at all costs mentality. People seem to forget that membership of the EU is primarily intended to benefit the countires. It shouldn't be an excuse to propose redundant legislation and bureaucracy in some misguided attempt to bind countries together byu aseries of more and more stringent obligations.
SAme here.

Don't worry. Hardly anyone bothers to vote in local elections.

After 5 years you can get residency- pretty much makes you a citizen and all the 'benefits' it brings.

Yep, that's one of my aims here. I figure it can't hurt to have it :D
And if I ever decide to go back to Canada, that piece of paper might make things a bit easier.

Empire? I doubt it mate- the EU IS an Empire

And thats why I hate the EU.

And thats why I hate the EU.That's ok. Nobody's perfect :P

That's ok. Nobody's perfect :P
Okay, also, I Must tell yo that I want Poland out of the EU.

Okay, also, I Must tell yo that I want Poland out of the EU.

I'm sure there's democratic processes within Poland that will enable you to start a referendum or something similar. You can't possibly expect us to kick them out, right?

I think Europe is great - I've studied a lot of European history, visited many European countries and am proud that Britain is part of such a richly cultured continent. I only wish that more of my fellow countrymen felt the same way.

However, I do agree with Tony Blair on the issue of the EU - it should be about science and technology, not paying French farmers to do sod all.

Who cares, americans do not know what sports are good and which are not.

Ever heard of an exaggeration??

Change change to destroy, and you will have it right.

Responses follow the order in which they were said by the person quoted:

Well, what he's saying is fair enough. Besides, who is to say Europe knows what sports are good? Aside from rioting over soccer? Of course, I shouldn't say too much about Europeans rioting over soccer, as I'd have to look more into the facts.

We're trying to be accurate here, the search for truth takes precedence over exaggerations and emotional outbursts, which do nothing but hinder our efforts.

?.....right....well, I'm going to have to look at what exactly the circumstances where on you saying that...

Plus why would you want to live in a country like the Netherlands... (legalized drugs, gay marriages, and prostitution).


We also have gay marriages, legalized cannabis (i guess...nobody understands the legislation) and prostitution (do you know one country where there aren't any prostitutes?)...ieeeuw who would want to live in Belgium?

Maybe it would be better if you weren't that narrow minded and actually knew where you are talking about.
Russia is one of the least developped countries in Europe with a lot of economical and social problems (mostly due to communism). It's not because it's a big country it would be good to have a coalition with them.

For the record I love Europe and I like the EU.

i love europe too , i love living in europe i love being from two european countrys ( i am an Irish Italian ) and i love the E.U. ,for i have seen single handly the good things it have done for my countrys and for all of europe and i also think europe is the best place in the world , for the people , culture , history , and places , oh and yes ireland is the best of all

for proof check out those sites lol .

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6529893


http://www.rte.ie/business/2004/1117/ireland.html
Yes we are great arent we? Nach bhfuilaimid go hiontach anseo i Eire?sorry. just brushing up on my Irish.:) the EU's latest official language *sigh*

The EU is evil? Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

Well, we Poles (I am one too) are masters of conspiracy theories. There are no politicians who are not claimed to be secret agents, communists, Jews, freemasons or so*... It's good he hasn't claimed yet that the EU was set up by Jews :)

*(edit: fortunately those who think so are usually elderly people, ultraconservatives, nationalists or other funny guys;) )

Well, we Poles (I am one too) are masters of conspiracy theories. There are no politicians who are not claimed to be secret agents, communists, Jews, freemasons or so*... It's good he hasn't claimed yet that the EU was set up by Jews :)

*(edit: fortunately those who think so are usually elderly people, ultraconservatives, nationalists or other funny guys;) )

Is Poland anti semetic...like Russia?

Europe has no spine

Europe has no spine

The disadvantage of spines is that they can be broken. Now, hydorstatic skeletons on the other hand.... :D

Wow...that could be the dumbest statement EVER. I guess youv never heard of basketball, nor have you ever heard that Europeans play cricket....:p

Well, Englishmen play cricket, and a few welsh, but other than the nearest cricketting nations to Europe are the West Indies (thats 'Carribean' to anyone born after 1940) and Pakistan (thats 'the bit on the top-left side of that place where the film 'Ghandi' was set, to anyone born between California and New England*)

In all fairness, cricket is shit. Soccer (pronounced 'FUT-bawl', or 'FIT-BA!' if you're scottish) is by far the greatest sport in the world. I'd like to see you play American Football with a tin-can and two jumpers.

I personally don't see what the fuss is about with American Football (pronounced 'FEYURT-BWARL', apparently**). It seems that the entire game is based on big people throwing a ball to little people who run and run until someone shouts 'pile-on!'*** in which case he gets mobbed. Thing is, that would be a kickass game if only they didn't stop play every ten seconds.

Baseball is just Rounders (which is a game that english school girls have played for the last hundred years) but with less excitement and a bigger bat (ah, mister Freud, how d'you do?)

Basketball and Ice Hockey, however, i can deal with. I like Ice Hockey a lot, and Basketball at least commands a decent degree of skill. Can't see either of them ever being as big as soccer (hereafter reffered to as 'Football' because thats what its called) though.

I dunno, if you're going to start an argument over whether European sport or American sport is better, then the only fair example you could use as a 'European sport' is Football. Europeans (bar the British Isles, Ireland, Italy and France) don't take Rugby seriously, just as the UK doesn't take hand-ball seriously.

Either way i'd prefer to have one god-given sport than four average, staccato, over-complicated ones

*just kidding. the 'americans suck at geography' thing is as old and un-funny as it is inaccurate. I can't recall the capital of Ohio just as the average american (or I myself for that matter) probably can't recall the capital of Dijibouti.

**This joke is for my own amusement only

***Anyone who didn't go to a british comprehensive school between 1978 and 1996 probably won't get this joke

Europe has no spine
Lie. it just needs tie (thats right, time, not a stupid union) to fix up what the evil USSR screwed up.

Is Poland anti semetic...like Russia?
No. The anti-semitic nazis took over and forced the people to be anti-semitic.

"asian hordes..." yeah...only now they have nukes...and they are telling you what to do at the workplace.. Fair? I think not. US is too much of a worthy nation to have its populace and workforce slowly be dominated by asian empire-builders

If an Asian can do the same job as an American better and for more money, there is no reason why that person does not deserve the job. What is happening in India especially is the rise of Asia as a major member of the world economy, with the end result being a greater degree of economic growth, reduced poverty, and freer international competition in not only India but the rest of the world including the US and EU.

China is not representative of the future, in my opinion. It lacks the "soft" assets of India that are the path to the future, and relies entirely on foreign investment for its growth. This is combined with crippling unemployment, deflation in rural China, unstable growth, falling real incomes, and rising poverty. The Chinese "boom" is really only benefitting the people who already had the wealth.

This contrasts sharply with India, where there is a growing middle class, a booming homegrown IT and consultancy sector, and rising real income. Not to mention India also boasts a free, independent press, the world's largest democracy, and a future of guaranteed religious and cultural tolerance. Can't say the same about China, where a single "subversive" blog post can get you hard labor for a decade.

If an Asian can do the same job as an American better and for more money, there is no reason why that person does not deserve the job. What is happening in India especially is the rise of Asia as a major member of the world economy, with the end result being a greater degree of economic growth, reduced poverty, and freer international competition in not only India but the rest of the world including the US and EU.

Why do so many Americans think of the EU as a nation. Its not, and fortunately, it does noot look like it will be any time soon.

Why do so many Americans think of the EU as a nation. Its not, and fortunately, it does noot look like it will be any time soon.

Because it's a political and economic unit, and it would take an awful lot of time and effort to list every single nation in every single post....

Because it's a political and economic unit, and it would take an awful lot of time and effort to list every single nation in every single post....
Still, they think that the eu is a nation when its not.

Still, they think that the eu is a nation when its not.

Who said that? There's no reference to the EU as nation anywhere. Just as a political and social entity...

Who said that? There's no reference to the EU as nation anywhere. Just as a political and social entity...
still, since the nations can be very different, they should not be so lazy as to just write EU.

What are you another of those anti-nationalsts?? Are you against the concept of sorvereignty, and think its a bad explaination just from that?

I am, nationalism is one the worst illness of mankind. We have European history to prove it, EU is the only good answer I've ever heard.

still, since the nations can be very different, they should not be so lazy as to just write EU.

Why not? If they are talking about the EU, why would they call it anything else?
If they were talking about the Iberian peninsula, would you force them to call it Spain, Portugal and Gibralta?
If they were talking about Scandinavia, do they have to say Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland anytime they refer to it?
And don't you think you are getting a bit paranoid here?

I am, nationalism is one the worst illness of mankind. We have European history to prove it, EU is the only good answer I've ever heard.
Actually i think that mankid always messes around with new things, and national sovereignty was not an excep. Im sure there would not be this trouble anymore even if these stupid unions did not exist.

Why not? If they are talking about the EU, why would they call it anything else?
If they were talking about the Iberian peninsula, would you force them to call it Spain, Portugal and Gibralta?
If they were talking about Scandinavia, do they have to say Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Finland anytime they refer to it?
And don't you think you are getting a bit paranoid here?
WEll, if they refering to the whole of europe, they should write europe, not European union.

Actually, the Eu does not benefit its members. It does the opposite.


I respect your opinion but I think it's not very well based. As a Spanish (I think Poland is quite similar in many things to Spain) I can swear you that the EU has benefit us a lot, even if it hasn't been the perfect relationship. But is there any?

WEll, if they refering to the whole of europe, they should write europe, not European union.

Well, if they are refering to the European Union as the political and economic union it happens to be, why should they refer to the continent instead? :rolleyes:

Because it's a political and economic unit, and it would take an awful lot of time and effort to list every single nation in every single post....

Its 14:36 by my clock.

Scotland England Wales Eire Northern Ireland Iceland Finland Faero Isles Denmark Norway Sweden Germany France Belgium Netherland Luxembourg Switzerland Spain Andorra Malta Gibraltar Italy Austria San Marino Hungary Ukraine Belorussia Poland Serbia Montenegro Croatia Macedonia Romania Bulgaria Russia Liechtenstein Lativa Estonia Lithuania Bosnia Herzogovina Greece Turkey Cyprus The Other Part of Cyprus Kazahkstan Uzbekistan Azerbaijan.

Thats most of them in four minutes :)

edit: tho the forum clock is faster than my pc's clock.

edit 2: apologies to the Portuguese, the Czechs, Slovenians, Slovakians and Georgians :)

Its 14:36 by my clock.

Scotland England Wales Eire Northern Ireland Iceland Finland Faero Isles Denmark Norway Sweden Germany France Belgium Netherland Luxembourg Switzerland Spain Andorra Malta Gibraltar Italy Austria San Marino Hungary Ukraine Belorussia Poland Serbia Montenegro Croatia Macedonia Romania Bulgaria Russia Liechtenstein Lativa Estonia Lithuania Bosnia Herzogovina Greece Turkey Cyprus The Other Part of Cyprus Kazahkstan Uzbekistan Azerbaijan.

Thats most of them in four minutes :)

edit: tho the forum clock is faster than my pc's clock.

edit 2: apologies to the Portuguese, the Czechs, Slovenians, Slovakians and Georgians :)

And the Austrians, I guess ;)

The Superbowl is a waste of our time?

This years superbowl capped a beautiful story and saw the retirement of a man who will become a legend in later years. Besides it's not like someone forces you to watch it every year.

Drawing objective conclusions from a biased outlook is just ignorance plain and simple. You don't like American Football, good for you, just don't try to convince me it's a waste of time.

At some point in my life I want to visit Europe but the general sentiment I've seen towards Americans is making me think otherwise.

At some point in my life I want to visit Europe but the general sentiment I've seen towards Americans is making me think otherwise.

Oh come on ... come and visit Europe and you will find out that you are very welcome. Of course there are some resentments, but who'd expect some 450 million people to think similar?
There are some reasons for these resentments of course.
1.) People know the US only from hearsay/ are biased
2.) the media! Check out this site and you'll know what I mean:

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/

It's the left-wing media basically ...

But please be aware that this is media and not automatically what the people think. If I'd meet you and you'd tell me you're American I'd be friendly and curious about your opinion - as most of the people I know would be.

At some point in my life I want to visit Europe but the general sentiment I've seen towards Americans is making me think otherwise.

If I took all Americans to be represented by the nutcases on NS General, I would never contemplate travelling across the Altantic.

Don't be so sensitive.

The Superbowl is a waste of our time?

This years superbowl capped a beautiful story and saw the retirement of a man who will become a legend in later years. Besides it's not like someone forces you to watch it every year.

Drawing objective conclusions from a biased outlook is just ignorance plain and simple. You don't like American Football, good for you, just don't try to convince me it's a waste of time.

At some point in my life I want to visit Europe but the general sentiment I've seen towards Americans is making me think otherwise.
Look. Nobody outside the United Spades of Amerika watches the superbowl. It may not be a waste of America's time, byt its a waste of everybody else's time.

Look. Nobody outside the United Spades of Amerika watches the superbowl. It may not be a waste of America's time, byt its a waste of everybody else's time.

To be honest, that one I didn't get, either. It's not like that event even made the news, let alone the sports programs over here (well, Ireland and Germany). Is it actually being broadcasted in Poland, or what are you so angry about?

To be honest, that one I didn't get, either. It's not like that event even made the news, let alone the sports programs over here (well, Ireland and Germany). Is it actually being broadcasted in Poland, or what are you so angry about?
Still, nobody in poland watches it.

Still, nobody in poland watches it.

Then how exactly is it wasting your time?

it depends , i mean, i love Europe as a place to live, especially the mediterranean coast, but hate to be around Norway, Iceland and finland...
i love the French, Italians and switz, but dislike the brits, scots and irish ( its an edducational problem, not more)

it depends on what part im talking about, politically, i think the EU is two faced, especially with policies to do with where i come from, Arab world, Middle east etc...

about the EU..

i believe that the EU is the worlds only (near) hope of making a balanced super power, even if they are both allies... the EU is the ONLY block able to say a VITO to the US, i mean, Russia can be bribed and China doesnt give a dam about world politics...

it depends , i mean, i love Europe as a place to live, especially the mediterranean coast, but hate to be around Norway, Iceland and finland...
i love the French, Italians and switz, but dislike the brits, scots and irish ( its an edducational problem, not more)

it depends on what part im talking about, politically, i think the EU is two faced, especially with policies to do with where i come from, Arab world, Middle east etc...

about the EU..

i believe that the EU is the worlds only (near) hope of making a balanced super power, even if they are both allies... the EU is the ONLY block able to say a VITO to the US, i mean, Russia can be bribed and China doesnt give a dam about world politics...

Actually, european nations can become supeperpowers on their own. they just need a bit of time to fix what the USSR screwed up.

The Superbowl is a waste of our time?

This years superbowl capped a beautiful story and saw the retirement of a man who will become a legend in later years. Besides it's not like someone forces you to watch it every year.

Drawing objective conclusions from a biased outlook is just ignorance plain and simple. You don't like American Football, good for you, just don't try to convince me it's a waste of time.

At some point in my life I want to visit Europe but the general sentiment I've seen towards Americans is making me think otherwise.

Superbowl, any match, does not deserve parity with Istanbul May 2005, or, for that matter, Barcelona, Nou Camp, May 1999

Actually, european nations can become supeperpowers on their own. they just need a bit of time to fix what the USSR screwed up.

*lol

Sorry... I just had the mental image of the superpower Czech Republic (great country, I really like it, but still...)

Actually, european nations can become supeperpowers on their own. they just need a bit of time to fix what the USSR screwed up.

Oh really? And what country in Europe do you think is going to acheive superpowerdom on its own, without the EU??

Actually, european nations can become supeperpowers on their own. they just need a bit of time to fix what the USSR screwed up.

not likely, Superpowers are BIG NATIONS, able to control nations economically, politically and militarly, France is suffering in Ivory Coast, Britian is suffering in Afghanistan and Iraq, and are leaving soon, and so are the rest who have sent troops to Kosovo and the Balkans...
the EU together can stand against the US, but small countries cant...

*lol

Sorry... I just had the mental image of the superpower Czech Republic (great country, I really like it, but still...)
Yeah. I always have dreams of Poland becoming a vast superpower nation, and no EU involved.

it depends on what part im talking about, politically, i think the EU is two faced, especially with policies to do with where i come from, Arab world, Middle east etc...

Maybe because where you come from, the arab world, they hate the western way of life. It has nothing to do with Europe being two faced, dont blame your regions problems on Europeans and claim that they are two faced.

Yeah. I always have dreams of Poland becoming a vast superpower nation, and no EU involved.

That wouldnt happen. Poland just isnt the type of nation that could do it. No offense, but its just not one of the better nations in our world. If you want to see Poland acheive greatness, it will have to be hand in hand with the rest of Europe.

not likely, Superpowers are BIG NATIONS, able to control nations economically, politically and militarly, France is suffering in Ivory Coast, Britian is suffering in Afghanistan and Iraq, and are leaving soon, and so are the rest who have sent troops to Kosovo and the Balkans...
the EU together can stand against the US, but small countries cant...
They won't always be small, and were not always (Poland was huge during the middle ages.)

Britian is suffering in Afghanistan and Iraq, and are leaving soon

Why, exactly, do you think Britian is suffereing by helping out its ally in need?

And what makes you think its leaving soon?

Oh really? And what country in Europe do you think is going to acheive superpowerdom on its own, without the EU??
any.

That wouldnt happen. Poland just isnt the type of nation that could do it. No offense, but its just not one of the better nations in our world. If you want to see Poland acheive greatness, it will have to be hand in hand with the rest of Europe.
Look. this is something very unpredictable. What the world is like now might not be how it will be 50 years later.

They won't always be small, and were not always (Poland was huge during the middle ages.)

The world has changed, and Poland hasnt. All through European history, since the renaissance till today, Poland has remained behind the rest of Europe, and was the last European country to keep a medievel economy. Later it was dominated by Russia and Germany (Prussia). And now, finally, it just doesnt have the country to acheive super power status. I'm sorry but the truth hurts.

Why, exactly, do you think Britian is suffereing by helping out its ally in need?

And what makes you think its leaving soon?

The date for the commencement of our withdrawal is at a juncture in March. Enjoy the mess Bush created, we truly do not want to spoil it for you....

Look. this is something very unpredictable. What the world is like now might not be how it will be 50 years later.

It will be, in 50 years, America, Japan, China, India, maybe Russia (depending), and if there is a EU, the EU. You guys just have to face it, you dont have the population, the economy, the resources, or the geographical expanse to become a major power, individually.

Yeah. I always have dreams of Poland becoming a vast superpower nation, and no EU involved.

Sweet dreams, then... Don't be disappointed if it never happens, though.

The world has changed, and Poland hasnt. All through European history, since the renaissance till today, Poland has remained behind the rest of Europe, and was the last European country to keep a medievel economy. Later it was dominated by Russia and Germany (Prussia). And now, finally, it just doesnt have the country to acheive super power status. I'm sorry but the truth hurts.
Still, it was once a superpower. No wonder you flunked history. You cannot just say the parts when it was weak, and use that to make me think it was always weak.

Maybe because where you come from, the arab world, they hate the western way of life. It has nothing to do with Europe being two faced, dont blame your regions problems on Europeans and claim that they are two faced.

Respect meter rising inordinately....

Quite true, unlike the Arabic world, we possess a free press, not a free press compelled to propogate Islamic propaganda (Masscre the western dogs, really now? Where will your benefits come from old boy?) whilst deploring that of other faiths (when was the last time a christian blew himself up in Damascus?)

The date for the commencement of our withdrawal is at a juncture in March. Enjoy the mess Bush created, we truly do not want to spoil it for you....

Well, well see if you guys truley withdraw, I am hoping that the British government does not cave to pressure.

Anyway whether or not you guys agree with us for going into Iraq, I would just like to thank every citizen of a coalition country, personally, for helping an ally in need, it means alot to me, and my country.

And yes, I'm even thanking you, Poland.

Sweet dreams, then... Don't be disappointed if it never happens, though.
I wont. It already was once in history.

It will be, in 50 years, America, Japan, China, India, maybe Russia (depending), and if there is a EU, the EU. You guys just have to face it, you dont have the population, the economy, the resources, or the geographical expanse to become a major power, individually.
Or maybe something else. Its unpredictable.

Still, it was once a superpower. No wonder you flunked history. You cannot just say the parts when it was weak, and use that to make me think it was always weak.

Let's put it this way : Austria was a huge Empire during the Middle Ages and well into modern times. What are the odds of it being a superpower again within the next 100 or 200 years, do you think?

Respect meter rising inordinately....

Quite true, unlike the Arabic world, we possess a free press, not a free press compelled to propogate Islamic propaganda (Masscre the western dogs, really now? Where will your benefits come from old boy?) whilst deploring that of other faiths (when was the last time a christian blew himself up in Damascus?)

Ha, thanks for that respect. I may not agree with Europe on many things, but if theres one thing I hate, its an arab blaming Europe/America or Europeans/Americans for their problems in the middle east and say we are racist and intolerant because we refuse to deal with it, the way they would there.

To that arab from Egypt, you say Europeans are two faced? Where is the rioting and bitching when you guys decapitate a European journalist? No it only comes up when some Danes over 4000 miles away from you draw a CARTOON, give me a fucking break. Stop blaming your problems on us, we are not subject to your law.

Well, well see if you guys truley withdraw, I am hoping that the British government does not cave to pressure.

Anyway whether or not you guys agree with us for going into Iraq, I would just like to thank every citizen of a coalition country, personally, for helping an ally in need, it means alot to me, and my country.

And yes, I'm even thanking you, Poland.

I disagree, Blair is seeking to reassert, or, to my mind, save his image to posterity, and a trapid withdrawal would go some way to achieving such an end.

As for the thanks, I sincerely doubt you were in need, and frankly, the entire affair has been both unjustified, and worth not a drop of coalition blood.

Let's put it this way : Austria was a huge Empire during the Middle Ages and well into modern times. What are the odds of it being a superpower again within the next 100 or 200 years, do you think?
Unknown. I am not saying that a european nation will become a superpower on its own too soon, however, the distant future is very unpredictable.

I disagree, Blair is seeking to reassert, or, to my mind, save his image to posterity, and a trapid withdrawal would go some way to achieving such an end.

As for the thanks, I sincerely doubt you were in need, and frankly, the entire affair has been both unjustified, and worth not a drop of coalition blood.

I understand that many of you guys were against our war, but that still doesnt sever my appreaciation and respect for you guys for helping us. Whether you agree with us or not, I, and my country are truley grateful, espeacily for countries like England, Italy, Poland, and Japan.

I understand that many of you guys were against our war, but that still doesnt sever my appreaciation and respect for you guys for helping us. Whether you agree with us or not, I, and my country are truley grateful, espeacily for countries like England, Italy, Poland, and Japan.

Quite true, now as for North Korea, Pakistan, Zimbabwe or China, fire away, I'd join up for the fun..

Unknown. I am not saying that a european nation will become a superpower on its own too soon, however, the distant future is very unpredictable.

Right, but if you just look at it, some countries have the capabilites to go on to great things on an indiviudal basis, but most dont. Honestly, the only 3 Euro countries I can see staying alive in the geopolitical world in the nea future would be Germany, Russia, and MAYBE England. But as a whole, you guys wouldnt obviously be a force to be feared.

Unknown. I am not saying that a european nation will become a superpower on its own too soon, however, the distant future is very unpredictable.

What time frames are we talking? 500 years? 1000? It's not even possible to say what countries will be in existence then...

I thank you for your kindness Atlantian Islands, but you must understand that in Britain way over 60% of people don't actually think we should have gone to war, because it was never justified and breached international law. Some people may not see a breach of international law as very important, but remember that we are all global citizens and one day, not soon but one day the entire world will be united as one nation.

Quite true, now as for North Korea, Pakistan, Zimbabwe or China, fire away, I'd join up for the fun..

Personally, I think the list looks more like this. Iran, North Korea, Sudan...but thats just my opinion.

Anyway I hope that for this whole Iran deal, America and Europe can pull off another Korean war type scenario, where we go in together, acomplish our mission and leave together, better allies than we were before the war started.

I thank you for your kindness Atlantian Islands, but you must understand that in Britain way over 60% of people don't actually think we should have gone to war, because it was never justified and breached international law. Some people may not see a breach of international law as very important, but remember that we are all global citizens and one day, not soon but one day the entire world will be united as one nation.

Lol, yeah, well that is European thinking, not American. But again, and even more in light of those recent numbers, I thank you guys.

Personally, I think the list looks more like this. Iran, North Korea, Sudan...but thats just my opinion.

Anyway I hope that for this whole Iran deal, America and Europe can pull off another Korean war type scenario, where we go in together, acomplish our mission and leave together, better allies than we were before the war started.

To be very honerst, why Sudan? I honestly am truly ignorant of why Sudan needs to be invaded.

No, I do not mean the evil thing known as the EU.

Anyway, I think europe (especially Poland) is a good place because it does not have bush or the superbowl, as the superbowl is a waste of our time. Also, it actually has some past, unlike america, which is prolly the youngest nation in the world. Also, contrary to popular belief, Europe has more freedom than America, because bush took away some of america's freedoms.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.

Anyway, I think America (especially Maryland) is a good place because it does not have Chirac or The World Snooker Championships, as the The World Snooker Championships is a waste of our time. Also, it actually has some youth, unlike Europe, which is prolly the oldest, most hoary continent in the world. Also, contrary to popular belief, America has more freedom than Europe, because Chirac took away some of Europe's backbone.

See, it's all in one's point of view, and both statements sound like talking points taken from various agendas. Try thinking for yourself. BTW -- I *do* live in America, but I was born in good old Great Britain -- Witney, Oxon to be precise.

What time frames are we talking? 500 years? 1000? It's not even possible to say what countries will be in existence then...
Thats what makes it so unpredicatable.

To be very honerst, why Sudan? I honestly am truly ignorant of why Sudan needs to be invaded.

They are just another typical African/Middle Eastern genocidal mass murdering regime...not unline whats going on in Rhonda (sp), though I admit probablly not to the same extent.

So why dont we add Rhonda (sp) to that list, as well. :p

Quite true, now as for North Korea, Pakistan, Zimbabwe or China, fire away, I'd join up for the fun..
anyone seen this yet?:)

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php

Anyway, I think America (especially Maryland) is a good place because it does not have Chirac
Well, Chirac only rules france, not all of europe
or The World Snooker Championships, as the The World Snooker Championships is a waste of our time
A European would say the same.
Also, it actually has some youth, unlike Europe, which is prolly the oldest, most hoary continent in the world.
Thaat would mean no future, not no youth
Also, contrary to popular belief, America has more freedom than Europe, because Chirac took away some of Europe's backbone.
What does that mean?

I you want to say this stuff about how you love america, start your own thread.

Maybe because where you come from, the arab world, they hate the western way of life. It has nothing to do with Europe being two faced, dont blame your regions problems on Europeans and claim that they are two faced.

we dont hate the western way of life... we dont agree on it, but dont hate it and try to destroy it... unlike the west... forcing gay rights on some arab countries, and trying to stop multuple marriages...
we dont hate the western way of life, we try to take the good stuff in it that we ddont have, and accomodate it with our way of life, like freedom of speech, women rights etc...

we dont hate the western way of life... we dont agree on it, but dont hate it and try to destroy it... unlike the west... forcing gay rights on some arab countries, and trying to stop multuple marriages...
we dont hate the western way of life, we try to take the good stuff in it that we ddont have, and accomodate it with our way of life, like freedom of speech, women rights etc...

Gay rights isnt a Western thing, its a left wing thing. Only 3 or 4 countries in the world have legalized gay marriage...I hardly call that a Western thing.

Also, if you guys dont agree with our western way of life, why do you move to our countries? Why dont you just stay in the middle east, in your theocratic paradises?

Well, Chirac only rules france, not all of europe

A European would say the same.

Thaat would mean no future, not no youth

What does that mean?

I you want to say this stuff about how you love america, start your own thread.

Did you read the rest of my post at all?!?!

Did you read the rest of my post at all?!?!
yes. sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo?

Gay rights isnt a Western thing, its a left wing thing. Only 3 or 4 countries in the world have legalized gay marriage...I hardly call that a Western thing.

Also, if you guys dont agree with our western way of life, why do you move to our countries? Why dont you just stay in the middle east, in your theocratic paradises?

what are you retarded, I'AM in the Middle East... plus i personally dont agree with emmigration to the west,

and i have NO idea what theocratic paradises mean...

what are you retarded, I'AM in the Middle East... plus i personally dont agree with emmigration to the west,

and i have NO idea what theocratic paradises mean...

I know you are, but many arabs are leaving the middle east for the west, even though they dislike our culture/soceity.

Also, theocratic just means a government ruled by religion.

I know you are, but many arabs are leaving the middle east for the west, even though they dislike our culture/soceity.

Also, theocratic just means a government ruled by religion.

ooh, ok, well from where i come from, islamists are put jail, i guess thats a suprise for you hunh???, the government is considered an athiest to the eyes of the citizens, both Muslims and christians... the only islamist arab governments are Saudi arabia, Hamas(Palestine) and Mauritania...
other then that there are 20 western-wannabe states...
and i dont agree on that, you probably got mixed up between Iran, afghanistan and us...

I know you are, but many arabs are leaving the middle east for the west, even though they dislike our culture/soceity.
Those that leave like it (most, of course you'll find those that are unhappy, and they generally go back if they can). They like the lifestyle, they like the freedom, they like the quality of life.

It's their kids which (kinda like Americans who think they're German) find themselves in a identity crisis (caused partly by us and partly by them) which invariably leads them to redefine themselves as Arabs/Muslims etc even if their parents never took that seriously.
And a part of this way to seperate themselves from those different from them, and to get together with those that are like them is to become more pious, go to Mosque all the time and so on.

It's all happened before with the Italian guestworkers. The exact same discussion, the exact same fears, the exact same arguments (even Catholicism vs Protestantism came up sometimes).

Give it some time.

Those that leave like it (most, of course you'll find those that are unhappy, and they generally go back if they can). They like the lifestyle, they like the freedom, they like the quality of life.

It's their kids which (kinda like Americans who think they're German) find themselves in a identity crisis (caused partly by us and partly by them) which invariably leads them to redefine themselves as Arabs/Muslims etc even if their parents never took that seriously.
And a part of this way to seperate themselves from those different from them, and to get together with those that are like them is to become more pious, go to Mosque all the time and so on.

It's all happened before with the Italian guestworkers. The exact same discussion, the exact same fears, the exact same arguments (even Catholicism vs Protestantism came up sometimes).

Give it some time.

Well...you may be right, only time will tell.

Also, I dont think I'm German!!! lol....All I was saying was that my backgroud is. I am American , through and through, born in Los Angeles, California.

what are you retarded, I'AM in the Middle East... plus i personally dont agree with emmigration to the west,

and i have NO idea what theocratic paradises mean...
There are no such things as theocratic paradises. Theocracy is evil.

Well, I feel obliged to explain the situation behind Swilatia's behaviour. Don't consider him as the representant of Poland here. In fact, he can only be the representant of Polish right-wingers, who are usually fiercely anticommunist and conservative and have a distrust to EU. Unfortunately he seems to present himself as one of more thoughtless and more far-right-wing right-wingers. But I please you to understand: there are lots of commie-lovers here, but no one treats their nations as procommunistic, and I hope no one would treat my nation by means of one's behaviour.


[edit: and Poland is not more antisemitic than any other country. There are some people explaining all problems with Jewish conspiracies and there is the rest, as everywhere else.]

Well, I feel obliged to explain the situation behind Swilatia's behaviour. Don't consider him as the representant of Poland here. In fact, he can only be the representant of Polish right-wingers, who are usually fiercely anticommunist and conservative and have a distrust to EU. Unfortunately he seems to present himself as one of more thoughtless and more far-right-wing right-wingers. But I please you to understand: there are lots of commie-lovers here, but no one treats their nations as procommunistic, and I hope no one would treat my nation by means of one's behaviour.

Not at all. My country is only one of 2 (possibly 3) states in the EU that has an essential 'open door' policy of immigration. The influx of Poles in particular has been of tremendous help to our overall economy- so many now that in less then a year, the population of the state is now somewhere 3-5% Polish.

Having worked alongside Poles for many years, I can tell you they are the nicest, friendliest, most welcoming and open people I have ever come across.

There is very little a Polish person can do to start of 'bad' in my mind. :)

Not at all. My country is only one of 2 (possibly 3) states in the EU that has an essential 'open door' policy of immigration. The influx of Poles in particular has been of tremendous help to our overall economy- so many now that in less then a year, the population of the state is now somewhere 3-5% Polish.

Having worked alongside Poles for many years, I can tell you they are the nicest, friendliest, most welcoming and open people I have ever come across.

There is very little a Polish person can do to start of 'bad' in my mind. :)

That definitely cheers me up:)

I find it interesting that the original poster doesn't mention the several hundred million Euro poured into Poland every year. Oh, and the EU is holding the pitcher and doing the pouring.

However, europe is rhreatened by the EU, and the EU most be stopped.

Whats wrong with the EU, free trade between the developed countries, billions in development grants going to the poorer ones, businesses investing in former soviet countries thus invigorating their economies. take a look at Spain and Ireland, both transformed from relativly backward nations into thriving modern states since they joined the EU, the same will probably happen with the new members to the East.

Whats wrong with the EU, free trade between the developed countries, billions in development grants going to the poorer ones, businesses investing in former soviet countries thus invigorating their economies. take a look at Spain and Ireland, both transformed from relativly backward nations into thriving modern states since they joined the EU, the same will probably happen with the new members to the East.
It may have economic benefits, but has many unrelated drawbacks. The EU is an attempt to turn european nations into a vast empire against their will. It is an attampt to create a second USSR. I do not trust the EU.

we dont hate the western way of life... we dont agree on it, but dont hate it and try to destroy it... unlike the west... forcing gay rights on some arab countries, and trying to stop multuple marriages...
we dont hate the western way of life, we try to take the good stuff in it that we ddont have, and accomodate it with our way of life, like freedom of speech, women rights etc...

What with suicide bombings, burning flags and anti-western administrations and all...:rolleyes:

It may have economic benefits, but has many unrelated drawbacks. The EU is an attempt to turn european nations into a vast empire against their will. It is an attampt to create a second USSR. I do not trust the EU.

Um, first of, the EU is not forcing any single country to join in. Second, an empire of who? The Belgians?
And third, comparing the EU with the USSR? Did you have to much coffee, or are you usually this paranoid?

What with suicide bombings, burning flags and anti-western administrations and all...:rolleyes:
Why do you have such stereotypes that the entire mideast is that way. Oly islamist nations are embagoing denmark.

Um, first of, the EU is not forcing any single country to join in. Second, an empire of who? The Belgians?
And third, comparing the EU with the USSR? Did you have to much coffee, or are you usually this paranoid?
Actually, I am saying that the EU is trying to take over the world, not that it has the exact same ideology as the USSR.

Actually, I am saying that the EU is trying to take over the world, not that it has the exact same ideology as the USSR.
And that's why they called the whole thing 'European' Union, right? :p

Actually, I am saying that the EU is trying to take over the world, not that it has the exact same ideology as the USSR.

Yup. That musst then be why they put countries on waiting lists to get in... :rolleyes:

And that's why they called the whole thing 'European' Union, right? :p
its not that simple. The EU is trying to become a nation, and that must be stopped.

Why do you have such stereotypes that the entire mideast is that way. Oly islamist nations are embagoing denmark.

Evidently the rest of the middle east beyond Israel not, indeedm being Isalmic, but secular, oh how foolish of me:rolleyes:

Yup. That musst then be why they put countries on waiting lists to get in... :rolleyes:
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

its not that simple. The EU is trying to become a nation, and that must be stopped.
No it's not, ergo...no stopping needs to be done.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Ever heard of a place called Turkey (http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/1951.cfm)?

No it's not, ergo...no stopping needs to be done.
How can u be so sure?

How can u be so sure?

*lol
How can you be so sure of the opposite? ;)

Ever heard of a place called Turkey (http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/1951.cfm)?
Actually its still not even a "to be admitted" nation yet.

Actually its still not even a "to be admitted" nation yet.

Well, it's been in discussion for a few decades now. Why would the EU keep them waiting that long if all it wanted to do was swallow as many countries as possible whole?

*lol
How can you be so sure of the opposite? ;)
Its massive size, and that it has an "EU currency", "EU flag", and had a failed attempt to make an "EU constitution".

Well, it's been in discussion for a few decades now. Why would the EU keep them waiting that long if all it wanted to do was swallow as many countries as possible whole?
Because turkey is in asia, and their plan is to make Europe a bad place.

Yeah. I always have dreams of Poland becoming a vast superpower nation, and no EU involved.

<shudder>

VAST? Are you hoping Poland is going to go on an invasion spree? Ruling out this option (given Poland's anemic military) Poland has less than 40m people, a population far too small to compete with large global acotrs like the US (280m), China (1,000m) and the EU (480m) (all figures V. approximate!)

Besides, Poland is socially backward, economically backward and politically backward and has lagged behind western European nations for centuries. How can you attack the EU? Do you not realise the EU (using my taxes) is pumping millions into that post-communist nightmare of a nation? Despite this conservative anti-EU feeling is running high in Poland. What I'd like to know is if you hate the EU so much why don't you just leave and allow the EU to help other, more needy, more enthusiatic and grateful member states? Poland clearly doesn't subscribe to the EU's liberal democratic principles - one need only look at the Polish government's/general population's views on homosexuality.

Because turkey is in asia, and their plan is to make Europe a bad place.

Who's they?

Sica']<shudder>

VAST? Are you hoping Poland is going to go on an invasion spree? Ruling out this option (given Poland's anemic military) Poland has less than 40m people, a population far too small to compete with large global acotrs like the US (280m), China (1,000m) and the EU (480m) (all figures V. approximate!)

Besides, Poland is socially backward, economically backward and politically backward and has lagged behind western European nations for centuries. How can you attack the EU? Do you not realise the EU (using my taxes) is pumping millions into that post-communist nightmare of a nation? Despite this conservative anti-EU feeling is running high in Poland. What I'd like to know is if you hate the EU so much why don't you just leave and allow the EU to help other, more needy, more enthusiatic and grateful member states? Poland clearly doesn't subscribe to the EU's liberal democratic principles - one need only look at the Polish government's/general population's views on homosexuality.
Poland is not backwards. Also, I think that legalized gay marriage is stupid.

Its massive size, and that it has an "EU currency", "EU flag", and had a failed attempt to make an "EU constitution".

And why on earth are you using superfluous quotation marks? Are you trying is some small, pathetic way to detract from the fact that the Euro is the world's second most used currency and that the EU flag not only flys over most of Europe, but is also generally acknowledged as being rather atheistically pleasing too?

So the EU Constitution project didn't work out, big deal, its a constantly evolving organisation and has overcome bigger hurdles before.

Who's they?
The EU.

Poland is not backwards. Also, I think that legalized gay marriage is stupid.

Really? What does it need those massive subventions for, then?

Poland is not backwards. Also, I think that legalized gay marriage is stupid.

Do elaborate.

Sica']And why on earth are you using superfluous quotation marks? Are you trying is some small, pathetic way to detract from the fact that the Euro is the world's second most used currency and that the EU flag not only flys over most of Europe, but is also generally acknowledged as being rather atheistically pleasing too?

So the EU Constitution project didn't work out, big deal, its a constantly evolving organisation and has overcome bigger hurdles before.
I say that the Euro is destruction of national symbols, and so is the EU flag. Also, I put EU currency in quotations because not all EU nations use it.

The EU.

Oh. So, "they" are Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Poland, Denmark, the UK, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, and all the others? All in all a bit more than 456 million people. And all dead set on turning the place they live in into hell on earth?
Talk about mass-masochism :D

If you love EUROPE why don't you just kiss the ground then. If you love the world you're even sicker. The place the world is today for us is outrageous. Do not love anything, be unsatisfied untill you die, and make a diffrence. Common humans!!! Wake Up!!!!



:sniper:

If you love EUROPE why don't you just kiss the ground then. If you love the world you're even sicker. The place the world is today for us is outrageous. Do not love anything, be unsatisfied untill you die, and make a diffrence. Common humans!!! Wake Up!!!!



:sniper:
No need to post flames. If you want to see people stop being proud of (insert place) then why don't you post your own thread on why you think its wrong.

The EU is important for Europe without it all EU nations would fall into a deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep recession, Alone European nations dont mean much anymore (except germany but not much) but together they have a greater GDP then anyone.

Some of you are pretty patehtic saying that the EU is nothing because of its constitution rejection, You could go into american Politics Immdiatly cause well as soon as things go bad you leave :D. No pain No Gain.

If you love EUROPE why don't you just kiss the ground then. If you love the world you're even sicker. The place the world is today for us is outrageous. Do not love anything, be unsatisfied untill you die, and make a diffrence. Common humans!!! Wake Up!!!!



:sniper:

Do not, ever, refer to me as common:mad:

So, I'm gonna take a stance against the EU and against Swatila.

Let's start with the former. Swatila, how's life in your little fascist bubble? "Oh yeah, I like my country, it's so better than others. I hope we invade the whole fuckin' Europe". Way to reproduct EU and to call it " The Pole Empire", eh?

As for EU, some people are against it for very different reasons. While Swatila, an ultra-nationalist, is against it due to the fact it makes Poland "less of a nation" in a conglomerate of nations, some, like me, are against it because of its free-market policies. The only goal politicians have with this scrap of paper (European constitution) is to have a more imposing political voice and to destroy the workers rights (including their salary).

Free market? Pfft. Only profitable to the rich.

Oh. So, "they" are Belgium, France, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Poland, Denmark, the UK, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, and all the others? All in all a bit more than 456 million people. And all dead set on turning the place they live in into hell on earth?
Talk about mass-masochism :D
No. I ,ean the EU itself. the evil beuracracies in Brussels, not the EU member nations.

No. I ,ean the EU itself. the evil beuracracies in Brussels, not the EU member nations.

The EU member nations make the EU itself. And EU beurocrats are nothing but representatives of their respective countries.

Poland is not backwards. Also, I think that legalized gay marriage is stupid.

Poland has less than half the average EU GDP per capital. And that average is dragged down by 40 million Poles. Poland isn't permitted to join the Euro because of the backward state of its economy. Though I'm sure you're exceedingly happy that you get to hold on to your bajillions of Zloty.

I really want you to explain how you can label the rights and concerns of a large minority group as "stupid" AT the same time as explaining how Poland's treatment of homosexuals is not backward.

Sica']Poland has less than half the average EU GDP per capital. And that average is dragged down by 40 million Poles. Poland isn't permitted to join the Euro because of the backward state of its economy. Though I'm sure you're exceedingly happy that you get to hold on to your bajillions of Zloty.

I really want you to explain how you can label the rights and concerns of a large minority group as "stupid" AT the same time as explaining how Poland's treatment of homosexuals is not backward.
Actually, gay rights is not something modern, its something left-wing. A lot of nations are against homosexuality.

Poland is not backwards. Also, I think that legalized gay marriage is stupid.

Poland is behind Western Europe but hey that’s for now. (I not from Poland, Sweden is more like it) About EU, what a great idea, it brings peace, contacts in Europe but why in the name of the people is it just controlled by capitalist pigs that don’t give a dame about the people? I do not say that we should be communists but why cant we just stop sucking out the last drop of life from the poor ones?

Second, Gay-marriages are just as stupid as any marriages. Let anyone marriage how he/she wants. There trouble not the states.

As for EU, some people are against it for very different reasons. While Swatila, an ultra-nationalist, is against it due to the fact it makes Poland "less of a nation" in a conglomerate of nations, some, like me, are against it because of its free-market policies. The only goal politicians have with this scrap of paper (European constitution) is to have a more imposing political voice and to destroy the workers rights (including their salary).

Free market? Pfft. Only profitable to the rich.

If politicians really wanted to destroy worker rights they probably wouldn't start by signing up to all those EU conventions protecting people from being exploited. The EU Working TIme directive is whats forcing countries to adjust their employment law to prevent exploitation of junior doctors for example.

Poland is behind Western Europe but hey that’s for now. (I not from Poland, Sweden is more like it) About EU, what a great idea, it brings peace, contacts in Europe but why in the name of the people is it just controlled by capitalist pigs that don’t give a dame about the people? I do not say that we should be communists but why cant we just stop sucking out the last drop of life from the poor ones?

Second, Gay-marriages are just as stupid as any marriages. Let anyone marriage how he/she wants. There trouble not the states.
I disagree a lot. First, I am an atheist who does not give a -censored- about the sanction of marriage. Anyway, I think the is onj the wrong track. it was okay until they came up with the Maastricht Treaty.

Actually, gay rights is not something modern, its something left-wing. A lot of nations are against homosexuality.

You are so narrow minded.

Gay rights are neither left wing nor right wing issue. Trying to label it as such is to try and label it in terms of US domestic politics, which is just retarded.

Gay rights are a human rights issue. Most of the older EU nations are bringing in, or have brought in marriage or civil partnership legislation - Spain and the UK spring to mind immediately.

I disagree a lot. First, I am an atheist who does not give a -censored- about the sanction of marriage. Anyway, I think the is onj the wrong track. it was okay until they came up with the Maastricht Treaty.

Then leave the EU, leave behind the millions we pump into your country and simply become part of the European Free Trade Area. Norway and Switzerland both decided they wanted to trade with the EU without any of the political strings. Why doesn't Poland do the same?

Sica']Then leave the EU, leave behind the millions we pump into your country and simply become part of the European Free Trade Area. Norway and Switzerland both decided they wanted to trade with the EU without any of the political strings. Why doesn't Poland do the same?
Well, thats what I was thinking myself.

Sica']You are so narrow minded.

Gay rights are neither left wing nor right wing issue. Trying to label it as such is to try and label it in terms of US domestic politics, which is just retarded.

Gay rights are a human rights issue. Most of the older EU nations are bringing in, or have brought in marriage or civil partnership legislation - Spain and the UK spring to mind immediately.
Acually, its more of a left-wing issue. The statement "Its a human rights issue" is what supporters use a propaganda.

Possibly because Poland wants our money too much and is happy to simply take it and stick two fingers up to European social principles?

You still haven't explained why you think gay marriage is stupid. Or do you think the "stupid" argument stands all by itself?

Actually, gay rights is not something modern, its something left-wing. A lot of nations are against homosexuality.

For once, aggreed.

Gay rights is just a a word to make it sound like Gays are being discriminated against and held without their rights like the blacks used to be. There is no Gay rights, they have the same rights as everyone, INCLUDING the right to a TRADITIONAL, normal marriage.

Acually, its more of a left-wing issue. The statement "Its a human rights issue" is what supporters use a propaganda.

It's about humans, and it's about their rights as stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted unanimosly by the General Assembly of the United Nations (another "evil organisation to take over world supremacy, no doubt) in 1948.
Which part of that is left-wing?

It's about humans, and it's about their rights as stated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted unanimosly by the General Assembly of the United Nations (another "evil organisation to take over world supremacy, no doubt) in 1948.
Which part of that is left-wing?
The UN just does not work.

I disagree a lot. First, I am an atheist who does not give a -censored- about the sanction of marriage. Anyway, I think the is onj the wrong track. it was okay until they came up with the Maastricht Treaty.

Well i guess that i cant convince you about gay marriage thing so I let you live you life in you way.

EU: Yes in can agree there. Maastricht was the first step in a direction of some kind of "super state". That’s just dumb. That’s what, the Romans, Napoleon and Hitler tried an that didn’t work out. Hitler failed because he was a as hole. Napoleon and the Romans because Europeans are not one people. Its more like a hundred.

The UN just does not work.

That's not quite what I asked....

For once, aggreed.

Gay rights is just a a word to make it sound like Gays are being discriminated against and held without their rights like the blacks used to be. There is no Gay rights, they have the same rights as everyone, INCLUDING the right to a TRADITIONAL, normal marriage.

And here we strike on the key difference between thought in Western Europe and thought outside it. In the US and other places they simply ignore the concerns of gay people and label them as whinging, whining freaks who could live a normal life if they just shut up and got on with it.

Where I live, its acknowledged that gay people are a minority which has often been discriminated against and are thus in need protection from the law to ensure their rights are safeguarded. Its also accepted that gay people should be allowed marry who they want to.

I prefer where I live, its more tolerant, friendly and sane.

EU: Yes in can agree there. Maastricht was the first step in a direction of some kind of "super state". That’s just dumb. That’s what, the Romans, Napoleon and Hitler tried an that didn’t work out. Hitler failed because he was a as hole. Napoleon and the Romans because Europeans are not one people. Its more like a hundred.
Well, Ithink we should then be glad that the "EU constitution" treaty failed miserably.

Well, Ithink we should then be glad that the "EU constitution" treaty failed miserably.

I don't get it. What is your problem? If you don't like the EU, leave. There's plenty of countries outside the EU you can choose from...
Personally, I'm more than grateful for it's existance, as otherwise, I definitely wouldn't be here right now.

Sica']And here we strike on the key difference between thought in Western Europe and thought outside it. In the US and other places they simply ignore the concerns of gay people and label them as whinging, whining freaks who could live a normal life if they just shut up and got on with it.

Where I live, its acknowledged that gay people are a minority that have been discriminated against who need protection from the law to ensure their rights are safeguarded.

Another fine line between the Euros and the Americans. Just for the record, gay "rights" is a left-wing thing over here, by the way.

Anyway American soceity just does not want gay marriage, and a few gays whinning about it arnt going to change anything. Even some people who arnt republicans dont want gay marriage. And, in California about 5 years ago, the whole state actually voted to make gay marriage illegal, (although San Francisco conviently forgets this). California is, without a doubt, one of our most liberal states so that just goes to show.

Sica']And here we strike on the key difference between thought in Western Europe and thought outside it. In the US and other places they simply ignore the concerns of gay people and label them as whinging, whining freaks who could live a normal life if they just shut up and got on with it.

Where I live, its acknowledged that gay people are a minority which has often been discriminated against and are thus in need protection from the law to ensure their rights are safeguarded. Its also accepted that gay people should be allowed marry who they want to.

I prefer where I live, its more tolerant, friendly and sane.

And I prefer where I live, as its more tolerant to the opinions of the vast majority, conservative, and sane.

See how well we see eye to eye? :p