NationStates Jolt Archive

Oh, and here's the SCUM manifesto if you're interested:

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

I particularly like passages like this:

"The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

Good god! She has said what all the scientists have being hiding from us all along!

What bothers me more is that they have convienced some gay men that it is possible.It's gotta be unhealthy in the long run.
probably, My cousin is gay and he tried to hide it, he tried to change it luckly he gave up and accepted it and is now openly gay.

It could quite easily drive someone into depression and unfortunatly suicide

Oh, and here's the SCUM manifesto if you're interested:

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

I particularly like passages like this:

"The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

Good god! She has said what all the scientists have being hiding from us all along!


what a loon. :rolleyes:

Oh, and here's the SCUM manifesto if you're interested:

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

I particularly like passages like this:

"The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

Good god! She has said what all the scientists have being hiding from us all along!

golden stuff there

atleast they have their name right

probably, My cousin is gay and he tried to hide it, he tried to change it luckly he gave up and accepted it and is now openly gay.

It could quite easily drive someone into depression and unfortunatly suicide
I say be yourself and fuck the begrudgers.(Unless you happen to be into eggwhisks in public)

I say be yourself and fuck the begrudgers.(Unless you happen to be into eggwhisks in public)
I think it was more a problem with admitting it to himself.

Ummm, just to clarify - is this a case of a Lesbian complaining that men find women attractive?

What?

Are we cutting into her dating market?

:p


The notion that MOST men don't look past beauty is BS. The flip-side, however, is that the expectation that men SHOULDN'T notice beauty at all is equally assinine. If you are a pretty girl, yes men will notice you. The fact that you have no interest in them I'm sure makes this more annoying to you than it would be to most. However, if this is the ONLY thing men notice about you (which I highly doubt), then maybe it's because it's the only side you show them. If you are the angry woman who won't give men the time of day, then you aren't giving them anything else to see now are you?

Just a thought.

Oh, and here's the SCUM manifesto if you're interested:

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

I particularly like passages like this:

"The male is a biological accident: the Y (male) gene is an incomplete X (female) gene, that is, it has an incomplete set of chromosomes. In other words, the male is an incomplete female, a walking abortion, aborted at the gene stage. To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

Good god! She has said what all the scientists have being hiding from us all along!
the X chromosome is bloated and inefficient! the planet would run better if men were in charge because none of us feel emotion and the world would be an efficient, bleak paradise! all hail the backlash!!!q1!



The flip-side, however, is that the expectation that men SHOULDN'T notice beauty at all is equally assinine

amen

golden stuff there

atleast they have their name right
Words fail me.If all were right with the world there would be a show down between Pat Robertson et al ,and these people with free chips and beer for onlookers.

Standpoint feminism is another funny one. That's the theory that only a female can give a truely objective view on the world because they're the only ones to have "suffered the life of a female" :DStandpoint feminism may well be bullshit, but your definition is incorrect. It means exactly what the name says it does; that you can only see reality from your standpoint. Therefore, standpoint feminists postulate that in fact there's no such thing as objective reality at all.

See, for example, Hawkesworth, M. E. (1989) `Knowers, Knowing, Known’: Feminist Theory and Claims of Truth, Signs 14:3: 533-57.

I haven't read through the 18 pages of stuff here, but I agree that the OP is a gross generalisation. The type of extremity she refers is something a few men do, though, and it is very annoying; we're people like they are. One thing that especially irritates me is when a man doesn't especially like to see two gay men kissing, but as soon as it's two women, it's like "w00t! Lesbians!" I haven't really seen this reversed much (ie. women not liking two women kissing, but instead liking two men).

However, the vast majority of men - that I've met anyway - are not sexist bastards who see a woman as a piece of meat, and it isn't fair to insinuate that all, or even most, of them are.

Words fail me.If all were right with the world there would be a show down between Pat Robertson et al ,and these people with free chips and beer for onlookers.
Im there
beer beer beer
chips chips chips

Standpoint feminism may well be bullshit, but your definition is incorrect. It means exactly what the name says it does; that you can only see reality from your standpoint. Therefore, standpoint feminists postulate that in fact there's no such thing as objective reality at all.


Ah, I stand corrected. It was only mentioned once very briefly on my course as an example of how theory could effect how research conducted - they said standpoint feminists only really wanted to interview females, but I guess I wasn't clear on the reason why.

Kishijoten:

Sounds to me as if you've been hanging out with some very immature men. Just an old man's thought on this.

Meh, sometimes the men who see nothing but a pair of tits and an ass serve their purpose. So long as you regard them as nothing but 10 fingers, a tongue and a cock at least.
What I don't get is that the threadstarter opens by saying that she chose to be a lesbian because jackasses drove her to it. You don't choose sexual orientation, you're attracted to who you're attracted to and that's what defines whether you're gay/straight/bi/whatever... I mean, unless she was initially bi and then through horrible experiences with men, she became conditioned to find them unattractive...?

Sounds to me as if you've been hanging out with some very immature men. Just an old man's thought on this.

That's easy for you to say, you shining example of chivalrous masculinity, you.

That's easy for you to say, you shining example of chivalrous masculinity, you.
thats Eut in a nutshell

Meh, sometimes the men who see nothing but a pair of tits and an ass serve their purpose. So long as you regard them as nothing but 10 fingers, a tongue and a cock at least.

Hey! I know how to use my big toes too!

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

would you like me to be sorry?
sorry for all the other bastards who make you feel like this?
cos i can. i'm sorry for men, i'm sorry that we abuse and hurt. i'm sorry you can't find the good ones out there.

but you can't be angry at us. you can't be angry at me. i am not a pig, i am a human being.
i've lost my friends because of women. i've become depressed over women. i've cryed more times then i'd like to admit because women didn't treat me like they should. you can be just as shallow. you can be just as cruel.
as humans we are based on our looks and so many have drawn short straws. its not a man thing. i am funny, smart, nice, kind and everything most would want in a guy. now you tell me why women only base me on what i look like??

i apologised for us, when will you apologise for ye?

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

Karen is that you?

That's easy for you to say, you shining example of chivalrous masculinity, you.
ROFLMFAO!!! Uh ... thanks, I think! :D

thats Eut in a nutshell
Heh! :D

would you like me to be sorry?
sorry for all the other bastards who make you feel like this?
cos i can. i'm sorry for men, i'm sorry that we abuse and hurt. i'm sorry you can't find the good ones out there.

but you can't be angry at us. you can't be angry at me. i am not a pig, i am a human being.
i've lost my friends because of women. i've become depressed over women. i've cryed more times then i'd like to admit because women didn't treat me like they should. you can be just as shallow. you can be just as cruel.
as humans we are based on our looks and so many have drawn short straws. its not a man thing. i am funny, smart, nice, kind and everything most would want in a guy. now you tell me why women only base me on what i look like??

i apologised for us, when will you apologise for ye?

touche

touche

i don't like to get serious, but i sure as well will if i have to :D

Hey! I know how to use my big toes too!
That sounds like it could be very gross.

i don't like to get serious, but i sure as well will if i have to :D
I didnt think you had it in you :p

I didnt think you had it in you :p

i know, quite the shock isn't it :p

Hey girl, don't get upset and give up on men altogether just because most are dicks.
Start dating punks!
Everyone knows punks respect everyone indifferent to age, sexe or skin color, so go for it!
(unless you're just lesbian, in that case, start dating female punks;))

ROFLMFAO!!! Uh ... thanks, I think! :D

You're welcome! Seriously, a lot of the current crop of young men could learn a lot from guys like you.

i know, quite the shock isn't it :p
quit it your scaring me, your ment to be like a universal constant

i apologised for us, when will you apologise for ye?I will. I'm am sorry for the women who have treated you like dirt. In some ways, to be honest, I feel that women can be more hurtful than men. I can only base this on personal observation, so it's hardly evidence (and is therefore not meant to be taken as an insinuation of a microcosmic representation), but a lot of the girls and women I've met in my life can be very bitchy and gossip behind people's backs. Men usually seem to be more upfront about it; if they have a problem with you, they just tell you. In a straightforward, blunt, non-bitchy manner.

I really do get on with men much better than women. My three best friends are all male and I have no close female friends. That is not to say that all men are wonderful, but neither are all women. Human beings to me are, for the most part, bastards anyway, regardless of their gender.

I will. I'm am sorry for the women who have treated you like dirt. In some ways, to be honest, I feel that women can be more hurtful than men. I can only base this on personal observation, so it's hardly evidence (and is therefore not meant to be taken as an insinuation of a microcosmic representation), but a lot of the girls and women I've met in my life can be very bitchy and gossip behind people's backs. Men usually seem to be more upfront about it; if they have a problem with you, they just tell you.

I really do get on with men much better than women. My three best friends are all male and I have no close female friends. That is not to say that all men are wonderful, but neither are all women. Human beings to me are, for the most part, bastards anyway, regardless of their gender.

i actually based my question towrds the OP
but thank you anyway :fluffle:

quit it your scaring me, your ment to be like a universal constant

yes sir

so erm.... death to the letter b???!!!

i actually based my question towrds the OP
but thank you anyway :fluffle:I know, but since she doesn't seem to be about, I thought someone ought to say it :) And you're welcome :fluffle:

"Quite unfortunately"? You want the opportunity to visit harm on somebody?

What's your view on the premise that when we harm others, we ultimately harm ourselves? (I'm not sold on it, since its easy to imagine conditions under which harming others might be seen as necessary).

Not just any somebody, very specific somebodies. And that comes from my overprotective side. As to the "harm another, harm yourself" premise, I would have to say it depends on what you mean by harming yourself. I have seen lots of people who spend damn near all their time hurting other people and seem to have no problem with it.

I know, but since she doesn't seem to be about, I thought someone ought to say it :) And you're welcome :fluffle:

well now all i have to do is remember to check this thread for a reply from her
i hope i get one

Oh Christ. Can I just say that, as a gay man, you are exactly what turns me off about women? Get off your high-horse and get over yourself. There are a lot of men out there who want absolutely nothing to do with you, won't ever look at your ass or tits, and don't even want to give you the time of day, and kudos to them for it, because a lot of women are just a waste of time because of how hung up they are on themselves and their supposedly alluring sexuality.

If you don't want men staring at your tits and ass, then stop wearing tight fitting jeans, stop wearing halter tops, stop wearing bikinis, and stop wearing short shorts. You don't see me walking around in a jockstrap, do you?

You're welcome! Seriously, a lot of the current crop of young men could learn a lot from guys like you.
some of us have been trying...

I will. I'm am sorry for the women who have treated you like dirt. In some ways, to be honest, I feel that women can be more hurtful than men. I can only base this on personal observation, so it's hardly evidence (and is therefore not meant to be taken as an insinuation of a microcosmic representation), but a lot of the girls and women I've met in my life can be very bitchy and gossip behind people's backs. Men usually seem to be more upfront about it; if they have a problem with you, they just tell you. In a straightforward, blunt, non-bitchy manner.

I really do get on with men much better than women. My three best friends are all male and I have no close female friends. That is not to say that all men are wonderful, but neither are all women. Human beings to me are, for the most part, bastards anyway, regardless of their gender.
now your getting it, just dont be a casualty, find a few of the decent humans beings and stick togeather, regardless when you find one special person worth having its all worth it in the end

So much for the myth that only straight white men are capable of hate speech.
Passing on the genes of someone with your attitude, not to mention your deviant lifestyle choice, would be a crime against humanity.


Hate to break it to you, but homosexuality isn't passed on from parent to child. Also, even if it were, I fail to see how such a thing would be a crime against humanity. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

now your getting it, just dont be a casualty, find a few of the decent humans beings and stick togeather, regardless when you find one special person worth having its all worth it in the end'Tis exactly what I have done :)

Kishijoten:

Sounds to me as if you've been hanging out with some very immature men. Just an old man's thought on this.

Eut, you may have missed this, but she's 20...Yes, she has been hanging out with some very immature men ;-)

Oh Christ. Can I just say that, as a gay man, you are exactly what turns me off about women? Get off your high-horse and get over yourself. There are a lot of men out there who want absolutely nothing to do with you, won't ever look at your ass or tits, and don't even want to give you the time of day, and kudos to them for it, because a lot of women are just a waste of time because of how hung up they are on themselves and their supposedly alluring sexuality.
From this I glean that you're a total asshole...

If you don't want men staring at your tits and ass, then stop wearing tight fitting jeans, stop wearing halter tops, stop wearing bikinis, and stop wearing short shorts. You don't see me walking around in a jockstrap, do you?
But I'm sure that you walk around wearing well fitted jeans, possibly a sweater that sits in all the right places and that you do things that show off your assets.
Let me tell you, I've been hit on guys while I worked in a factory wearing a baggy t-shirt and old, gross baggy jeans. I'm sure women in the arctic get hit on and stared at while wearing parkas for fuck's sake. We are sexual creatures and will be attracted ot people no matter whether they're wearing a potato sack or the most well put together outfit there is.

'Tis exactly what I have done :)
kudos

That sounds like it could be very gross.
Well, I don't know about you or what kind of people you frequent, but I keep my feet very clean, healthy, and my toe nails short.

yes sir

so erm.... death to the letter b???!!!
and the world again makes sence

I've only seen this page and the first page so forgive me if this or something similar has been said...

As a heterosexual female, I've noticed that there are girls who treat guys like a piece of meat, too. I'll say that a guy seems nice and the only thing the girl can talk about is what he looked like or how much money he probably has. Girls can be shallow, too!

I even had a friend admit to me that she wouldn't be surprised if her boyfriend (now ex-boyfriend, big surprise) accidentally jogged off a cliff one day. Guess she didn't a) mind that he was this idiotic and b) respect him enough to realize that he wasn't really that stupid or at least have the maturity to keep it to herself.

Still, I know enough decent folks of both genders to give me hope that people who want respect in dating relationships can get it :)

From this I glean that you're a total asshole....

If by asshole you mean a man who is tired of hearing women talk about how sick they are of being objectified, while in the meantime most encourage the objectification in one way or another. Stop buying the clothes, stop buying the magazines, stop supporting the celebrities. Objectification happens because people allow it to. Quit bitching, do something about it.



But I'm sure that you walk around wearing well fitted jeans, possibly a sweater that sits in all the right places and that you do things that show off your assets.

I'm 6'2 and 145 lbs, I couldn't find well fitted jeans if my life depended on it.

I do wear clothes that show off my prized assets. And that's because I want people to notice those assets. If you don't want people to look, stop wearing the clothes. I want people to look, and thus, I wear them.

Eut, you may have missed this, but she's 20...Yes, she has been hanging out with some very immature men ;-)

:eek:
as an 18 year old i am offended

*stamps his foot*
i am mature, your just a.... a.... a... meanie!!!
*blows a raspberry*

Hate to break it to you, but homosexuality isn't passed on from parent to child. Also, even if it were, I fail to see how such a thing would be a crime against humanity. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
*asumes austrian acent* This could lead to a nasty decent into the pathology of sexuality and thats somewhere I dont think you can take someone who thinks homosexuality is a crime against humanity. *polishes metal rimed glases and does another line*

and the world again makes sence

now let us discuss world politics

If by asshole you mean a man who is tired of hearing women talk about how sick they are of being objectified, while in the meantime most encourage the objectification in one way or another. Stop buying the clothes, stop buying the magazines, stop supporting the celebrities. Objectification happens because people allow it to. Quit bitching, do something about it.
Did you conveniently ignore the part where I got hit on and had some creepy old men stare at my tits while I wore a t-shirt and jeans that were both way too big for me (and hell, contsruction boots)? Not wearing sexy clothes will not guarantee a lack of interest.

Did you conveniently ignore the part where I got hit on and had some creepy old men stare at my tits while I wore a t-shirt and jeans that were both way too big for me (and hell, contsruction boots)? Not wearing sexy clothes will not guarantee a lack of interest.


Yeah, and sometimes straight women pull me into the bathrooms at gay bars and try to forcibly make out with me.


There are lots of freaks and lunatics out there. But, to say that because they exist, they somehow represent their group as a whole?

Removing the basis of objectification from our societies won't stop the harassment entirely, but it certainly would discourage it from those that aren't freaks and lunatics, and are instead brought up this way.

If by asshole you mean a man who is tired of hearing women talk about how sick they are of being objectified, while in the meantime most encourage the objectification in one way or another. Stop buying the clothes, stop buying the magazines, stop supporting the celebrities. Objectification happens because people allow it to. Quit bitching, do something about it.While in part I agree, the problem (to me) is that women who don't objectify themselves are still, on occasion, seen as objects by some men. Dakini is right; regardless of what you're wearing, how you're behaving or whatever, some people will still behave as if you're a piece of meat.

To use your examples, I'm not interested in sexy clothes (if it's non-hideous and fits, that's good enough), the only magazines I read are Computer Shopper and Private Eye and celebrities could go and die for all I care (most could already be dead for all I know). However, there have still be occasions on which I have been leered and jibed at by men.

Again, this is not to say that all men are bastards. They aren't. Some are, but so are some people belonging to any social group.

However, there have still be occasions on which I have been leered and jibed at by men.

could be your accent :p

Did you conveniently ignore the part where I got hit on and had some creepy old men stare at my tits while I wore a t-shirt and jeans that were both way too big for me (and hell, contsruction boots)? Not wearing sexy clothes will not guarantee a lack of interest.
Oh, yeah, creepy old men. But if when it is a dashing young man with dreamy eyes and a smile that can melt a glacier I bet you wouldn't be complaining, eh? eh?

Stop discriminating creepy old men! We have rights too! I mean... they... they have rights too!

could be your accent :pMaybe :D I don't sound like your typical Belfastian :p

][I think your into the feminism rubbish too much....obviously a severe case of a bad male experience....most guys are fine the others just need a little understanding then you would realise that all they do is demean themselves not women. You need to be more open minded about life!!!
I am a bi female and your talkin rubbish...............

I'm not. There some good men, but the majority seem to be otherwise.

the majority of HUMANITY, poor girl, seems to be otherwise. :eek:

Maybe :D I don't sound like your typical Belfastian :p
To me an Irish accent is sexy accent

Here's what I think about this...

Women are in general attracted to confidence in men, and the men who are jerks are more likely to be those with confidence, and they don't always show as assholes on the surface... it's not until later (after they've slept with them) that women realize that they're assholes.

And it's those type of guys who will come up to women in a club or something and start hitting on them... so that's the type of guy you see all the time, and so you geti a skewed representation.

I'm a nice guy, but I'm a lot more reserved than a lot of men, and I don't usually date all that much. And there are a lot of guys like me who make great friends, and awesome partners and lovers, but don't get noticed.
You and a lot of women have never approached many of us, or made the effort to get to know us... so you don't know how nice males can be..

So yeah, I've got no sympathy for women who keep getting hurt over and over again.

I think you'd be especially prone not to get to know the more reserved guys, because you have prejudice against men, and would judge them as "probably assholes".... and this shows the danger of a prejudice... if someone with these types of views gets into positions of power, it can really adversly affect people undeserving of scorn... as seen in genocides, opression of women, etc.

Think about re-evaulating your views... talk to the guys who don't come up and talk to you. I'd be willing to talk further (in a civil way) about this...

As a male driven by an age-old, genetic desire to reproduce, and as a representative of my sex, I apologise.

Now, show us your tits.

I havn't read through the entirety of this topic, so I apoligise if I say something already covered (I also apoligise for my spelling of apoligise :D )

I feel Kishijoten that you have given us men the short end of the stick. In fact you have just shown exactly the same level of generalisation by sex that you are accusing all men of doing. We do not all (in fact the greater number of us are not) think with our c**ks. Just like few women are bimbo airheads who can't hold up their end of a confesation (I know, spelling...). Men do sometimes take a peek, I must admit that I have before. But it is exactly the same as if someone walked past in a magnificent piece of clothing or something. It is simply: "Bloody hell! That's nice!", which it kinda a compliment if you think about it. And it does go both ways, just men don't really care when it is done to them. There will always be some creeps but they are really not representatitve of the majority.

The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less!
This from the creator of this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464997) particular gem.

Original Post *Snip*

A few things...

1. Female chauvinism is just as bad as male chauvinism.
2. Generalizations are rarely accurate and even more rarely a good idea.
3. The ability to think and understand beyond finite experience is one of the primary advantages of being human. Don’t neglect it.
4. Defining yourself by your dislike of a particular group of people is just plain shallow.
5. You did however describe a certain type of individual that I have come to loath fiercely in the last 10 years of my life. It does not however constitute anything even close to a majority… the implications of such a statement would be utterly mind boggling.
6. I have no problem with lesbians, I usually get along well with them, but could you please at least try to be an intellectually honest lesbian?

Okay, I have a few things to say.

If you aren't a hot lesbian, I don't care about your opinion (I'm a man, you said it yourself).

If you are a hot lesbian, have a hot pillow fight with another hot lesbian. Then I will respect you.

Shut up and scrub my floors.

I wanted to write a post how stupid (lesbian) feminists* are, and the women who think they're better than men, or their blah-blah rants with 0% meaningful content (like a women's brain) what's wrong with men. Well face it, men are just better. We can invent things, we can work harder, better, more precise. And we start wars? So what?

* the lesbians playing adult movies aren't really lesbians people, most of them resemble a male more than a female. Get your facts straight.

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.

I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.

I must admit, it always annoys the hell out of me when people ask a gay individual if they would "consider going back" to dating the opposite sex. Do we routinely ask straight people, "Would you ever think about going over to the 'other side'?" If a gal admits she is straight, do we insist that they just "haven't met the right woman"? Maybe in joking, but not nearly with the kind of frequency that gay individuals have their sexuality questioned.

I must admit that straight males are particularly annoying about this. I can't count the number of times that a straight male insisted that HIS penis would be enough to win over any lesbian...talk about pathetic.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie.

Then, to be perfectly frank, you are associating with the wrong sort of men. This may be due to your location or occupation, but it may also be due to the contexts you choose to place yourself in. If you choose to have no male friends, then it makes sense that you aren't going to have much positive male contact, and the only memorable contact you will have with males will be of a more...abbrasive...variety.

I recommend cultivating friendly relationships with persons of both sexes. If you find yourself insisting that you just can't find any women (or men) who you want to be friends with, then maybe you need to think about the possibility that YOUR attitudes and feelings could be contributing to the problem. I'm not saying you should blame yourself whenever somebody else is a jackass, but there are so many different kinds of men and women that I don't usually believe anyone who claims they can't find any decent persons of one gender or the other.


It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

You shouldn't have any view of "men" at all. "Men" is such a general group that it is meaningless, much like "brown-eyed people." If a brown-eye person is a jerk to you, does that mean you immediately start lumping all brown-eye people into one big nasty group? Of course not, because that would be silly. The same holds true for men and women. There are many men who are jerks, just as there are many women who are jerks. This does not mean you should choose to be disrespectful to all persons who are male or all persons who are female...instead of grouping by gender, group by "jerkishness."


All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it.

In a way, he's right. There is pretty much no chance that you will get your wish in your lifetime. You WILL be judged on your appearance. You WILL be judged based on your gender. The key comes in how you deal with it.

If you decide that this treatment is unfair, and therefore you're going to piss and moan and hate the menfolk, you're going to be both unhappy and utterly counterproductive. Instead, call people's attention to their behavior when they act like jerks, but do so in a respectful manner...you'd be surprised how many people aren't actually jerks, but are simply clueless individuals who never really thought about the matter.

Also, build a future for yourself where you don't have to tollerate the jerkishness. Become talented, capable, and everything they tell you that you cannot be. For instance, make yourself such a desirable employee that no employer can AFFORD to disrespect you for being female...if they disrespect you, just take your awesome self to one of the many other employers who is eager to make better use of your abilities.

When you KNOW that you are a capable, strong, intelligent person, it starts mattering less and less what some dingbat thinks of you.


Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

WANTING that doesn't make you ignorant. Believing that your desire is going to be realized is naive. You will not get a chance to live in a world where appearance is unimportant. Sorry. I wish it were otherwise.


I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with!

Absolutely. This is why it is important to call attention to such situations, and to make people face the realities. Many people "deal" with gender inequity by simply pretending they don't see it...instead, force them to see it, and make them have an opinion.


So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.

Personally, I think the #1 issue that needs to be given more attention is the warped views many people hold about rape. For instance, many people believe a husband cannot rape his wife, or a boyfriend his girlfriend. Many people believe that if a girl agrees to make out with a guy then it cannot be rape if he proceeds to have sex with her against her wishes. Many people believe that prostitutes or strippers cannot be raped because they are "easy." These are myths that need to be ATTACKED.

The sad thing is that the people who need to attack them are MALE...men need to stop allowing each other to get away with rape. If your frat brother mentions the passed-out girl up stairs and asks if you want your turn, TELL HIM HE IS A RAPIST. If your friend talks about how he likes to spike girls' drinks so he can have sex with them, TELL HIM HE IS A RAPIST. Report these things to the police, and warn any women who are unlucky enough to encounter your "friend."

Most men will, if pressed, insist that they don't approve of rape. But many of them aren't prepared to stand up to rapists even when the situation is very very clearly one of rape. Even more of them fail to recognize rape situations when they occur.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.
If you know that not all men are like this, then use more careful language. DO NOT fall into the stupid stereotype trap of talking about what "men" are like or what "women" are like..."men" are individuals. "Men" do not categorically all show the same pattern of behavior. "Men" are not the ones you are angry at.

Just keep reminding yourself of that last one, and I think it might help.

I wanted to write a post how stupid (lesbian) feminists* are, and the women who think they're better than men, or their blah-blah rants with 0% meaningful content (like a women's brain) what's wrong with men. Well face it, men are just better. We can invent things, we can work harder, better, more precise. And we start wars? So what?

* the lesbians playing adult movies aren't really lesbians people, most of them resemble a male more than a female. Get your facts straight.

feminists do not think women are better then men. we think we are equal. and suld have the same rights and dutys. to bad that in 2006 that still isnt the case. im from holland and today was on the news that even in holland women get less payd for there jobs then men do. wy is that?
We can invent things, we can work harder, better, more precise. And we start wars? So what?
the fact that men now still dominate in big jobs is cus its only bin normal for a few years that women go to scool and dont quit when the get pregnant or get married (exept for a few exeptions) . tho a lot of them still do cus its realy hard to combine children whit work. you will see that the next genaration. my genaration will resolv to a hell of a lot more wommen on high places.

or their blah-blah rants with 0% meaningful content (like a women's brain) what's wrong with men. Well face it, men are just better
:rolleyes: sigh... bravo. you are doing as expected. the will be glad that there message is still going strong. halleluja

This from the creator of this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464997) particular gem.

hahahahaha, oh my freaking god
you've got to be kiddin me?
this person whose been lecturing guys on their chauvinism has started a thread called "Would you hit it?"
i can't stop laughing, what a contradictory sanctimonious bitch

Mmm, pie.

Mmm, pie.

an excellent point, i wish to subscribe to your newsletter

feminists do not think women are better then men. we think we are equal. and suld have the same rights and dutys. to bad that in 2006 that still isnt the case. im from holland and today was on the news that even in holland women get less payd for there jobs then men do. wy is that?<snip>

There are actually different groups of femenists, and the more active vocal ones seem to honestly believe they are better than men. It is so much simpler to have no respect for the human race in general and allow individuals to earn their respect. Then you can be equally biased against all groups.

What are you talking about? Men ROCK! YEAH! WHOO!

*drinks beer*

an excellent point, i wish to subscribe to your newsletter
I was glazing over the rant, then I saw pie, and I was like "I would like some pie now: apple pie, cherry pie, pumpkin pie, blueberry pie..."

<snip>
Sorry, but that was just way long. Very good points though.

I must admit, it always annoys the hell out of me when people ask a gay individual if they would "consider going back" to dating the opposite sex. Do we routinely ask straight people, "Would you ever think about going over to the 'other side'?" If a gal admits she is straight, do we insist that they just "haven't met the right woman"? Maybe in joking, but not nearly with the kind of frequency that gay individuals have their sexuality questioned.

I must admit that straight males are particularly annoying about this. I can't count the number of times that a straight male insisted that HIS penis would be enough to win over any lesbian...talk about pathetic.


Then, to be perfectly frank, you are associating with the wrong sort of men. This may be due to your location or occupation, but it may also be due to the contexts you choose to place yourself in. If you choose to have no male friends, then it makes sense that you aren't going to have much positive male contact, and the only memorable contact you will have with males will be of a more...abbrasive...variety.

I recommend cultivating friendly relationships with persons of both sexes. If you find yourself insisting that you just can't find any women (or men) who you want to be friends with, then maybe you need to think about the possibility that YOUR attitudes and feelings could be contributing to the problem. I'm not saying you should blame yourself whenever somebody else is a jackass, but there are so many different kinds of men and women that I don't usually believe anyone who claims they can't find any decent persons of one gender or the other.


You shouldn't have any view of "men" at all. "Men" is such a general group that it is meaningless, much like "brown-eyed people." If a brown-eye person is a jerk to you, does that mean you immediately start lumping all brown-eye people into one big nasty group? Of course not, because that would be silly. The same holds true for men and women. There are many men who are jerks, just as there are many women who are jerks. This does not mean you should choose to be disrespectful to all persons who are male or all persons who are female...instead of grouping by gender, group by "jerkishness."


In a way, he's right. There is pretty much no chance that you will get your wish in your lifetime. You WILL be judged on your appearance. You WILL be judged based on your gender. The key comes in how you deal with it.

If you decide that this treatment is unfair, and therefore you're going to piss and moan and hate the menfolk, you're going to be both unhappy and utterly counterproductive. Instead, call people's attention to their behavior when they act like jerks, but do so in a respectful manner...you'd be surprised how many people aren't actually jerks, but are simply clueless individuals who never really thought about the matter.

Also, build a future for yourself where you don't have to tollerate the jerkishness. Become talented, capable, and everything they tell you that you cannot be. For instance, make yourself such a desirable employee that no employer can AFFORD to disrespect you for being female...if they disrespect you, just take your awesome self to one of the many other employers who is eager to make better use of your abilities.

When you KNOW that you are a capable, strong, intelligent person, it starts mattering less and less what some dingbat thinks of you.


WANTING that doesn't make you ignorant. Believing that your desire is going to be realized is naive. You will not get a chance to live in a world where appearance is unimportant. Sorry. I wish it were otherwise.


Absolutely. This is why it is important to call attention to such situations, and to make people face the realities. Many people "deal" with gender inequity by simply pretending they don't see it...instead, force them to see it, and make them have an opinion.


Personally, I think the #1 issue that needs to be given more attention is the warped views many people hold about rape. For instance, many people believe a husband cannot rape his wife, or a boyfriend his girlfriend. Many people believe that if a girl agrees to make out with a guy then it cannot be rape if he proceeds to have sex with her against her wishes. Many people believe that prostitutes or strippers cannot be raped because they are "easy." These are myths that need to be ATTACKED.

The sad thing is that the people who need to attack them are MALE...men need to stop allowing each other to get away with rape. If your frat brother mentions the passed-out girl up stairs and asks if you want your turn, TELL HIM HE IS A RAPIST. If your friend talks about how he likes to spike girls' drinks so he can have sex with them, TELL HIM HE IS A RAPIST. Report these things to the police, and warn any women who are unlucky enough to encounter your "friend."

Most men will, if pressed, insist that they don't approve of rape. But many of them aren't prepared to stand up to rapists even when the situation is very very clearly one of rape. Even more of them fail to recognize rape situations when they occur.


If you know that not all men are like this, then use more careful language. DO NOT fall into the stupid stereotype trap of talking about what "men" are like or what "women" are like..."men" are individuals. "Men" do not categorically all show the same pattern of behavior. "Men" are not the ones you are angry at.

Just keep reminding yourself of that last one, and I think it might help.



Thank you for giving me an intelligent response. You are one of the few who elevated yourself above childish flames and tried to add something to this, now If everybody would follow your lead.

There are actually different groups of femenists, and the more active vocal ones seem to honestly believe they are better than men. It is so much simpler to have no respect for the human race in general and allow individuals to earn their respect. Then you can be equally biased against all groups.

thats the mistake. the are not feminists. the are men haters who think the are feminists. big diverence. look it up in the dictionary my frend

Thank you for giving me an intelligent response. You are one of the few who elevated yourself above childish flames and tried to add something to this, now If everybody would follow your lead.
What's wrong with pie?

Thank you for giving me an intelligent response. You are one of the few who elevated yourself above childish flames and tried to add something to this, now If everybody would follow your lead.

i gave a intelligent response and you ignored me...:(

thats the mistake. the are not feminists. the are men haters who think the are feminists. big diverence. look it up in the dictionary my frend


sadly there are feminists who hate men and think women are better. Feminist is viewedto mean different things by different people.

i gave a intelligent response and you ignored me...:(



And where did you do that? All I saw was you calling me a bitch. Which is FAR from intelligent.

Ok. I think the short summary of the first post is as follows:

1. Casual sex is wrong
2. Treating women as inferior is wrong
3. Some men do these, and are thus evil.
4. The poster is annoyed that 3 is true.

And where did you do that? All I saw was you calling me a bitch. Which is FAR from intelligent.He did make a few fair points here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10302193&postcount=268).

thats the mistake. the are not feminists. the are men haters who think the are feminists. big diverence. look it up in the dictionary my frend

That's the problem with definitions...everyone takes words to mean different things. For example, many people are not really people but overevolved apes pretending at civilization. (And as Planet of the Apes demonstrates, overevolved apes aren't very nice either)

What's wrong with pie?



The pie you are thinking of and the pie I am thinking of ar 2 different types of pie.:)

The pie you are thinking of and the pie I am thinking of ar 2 different types of pie.:)

Or so you think ;)

And where did you do that? All I saw was you calling me a bitch. Which is FAR from intelligent.

silly girl, you did start a thread called "would you hit that?"
how can you do that and then have the audacity to start this thread?

and Kazcaper (who has been nothin but charming may i add) has pointed out my other significant post

So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

Should I start by getting them tried on crimes against morality?

I wish I had the power to make everyone a "good" person or at least not an asshole. However, that in turn is by no means good in itself. Part of being good is being tolerant no matter how ignorant, abbrasive, and foolish the other may be.

My years in high school were probably the worst because a lot of my closest friends became "bad". Oh well, honor is just about dead anyway.

silly girl, you did start a thread called "would you hit that?"
how can you do that and then have the audacity to start this thread?

and Kazcaper (who has been nothin but charming may i add) has pointed out my other significant post



That thread was more about me wanting to know if others found her attractive. Should have stated that better.


What is it with you europeans and calling girls silly? I know a guy from the netherlands who calls me that and little chibi to.

But its cute when he does it.

Should I start by getting them tried on crimes against morality?

I wish I had the power to make everyone a "good" person or at least not an asshole. However, that in turn is by no means good in itself. Part of being good is being tolerant no matter how ignorant, abbrasive, and foolish the other may be.

My years in high school were probably the worst because a lot of my closest friends became "bad". Oh well, honor is just about dead anyway.



Honor. There was a time when that was respected and demanded of all men. I know what killed or better who killed it...but if I said it all hell would break loose.

That thread was more about me wanting to know if others found her attractive. Should have stated that better.


What is it with you europeans and calling girls silly? I know a guy from the netherlands who calls me that and little chibi to.

But its cute when he does it.

you do know you completely ignored pretty much everything i said and instead concentrated me on my use of the word silly. so i can't use bitch nor silly, any words i can use?

and the fact you started a thread about the attractiveness of her....
what if she read it and felt she was being treated like the piece of meat you were treating her like? :eek:

Should I start by getting them tried on crimes against morality?

I wish I had the power to make everyone a "good" person or at least not an asshole. However, that in turn is by no means good in itself. Part of being good is being tolerant no matter how ignorant, abbrasive, and foolish the other may be.

My years in high school were probably the worst because a lot of my closest friends became "bad". Oh well, honor is just about dead anyway.

I'm all for trying people for crimes against morality...but...whose morality are we going to use? Some people's morality is terrifying.

you do know you completely ignored pretty much everything i said and instead concentrated me on my use of the word silly. so i can't use bitch nor silly, any words i can use?

and the fact you started a thread about the attractiveness of her....
what if she read it and felt she was being treated like the piece of meat you were treating her like? :eek:



I was just asking why alot of europeans use that words. Just a question, did I say you couldn't use it?


I doubt she care, what woman would be mad if men said how pretty she was?

Honor. There was a time when that was respected and demanded of all men. I know what killed or better who killed it...but if I said it all hell would break loose.

Now now, don't pick fights...otherwise I might be tempted to mention that honor hasn't been demanded from women in recorded history. Decency maybe, but certainly not honor.

Honor. There was a time when that was respected and demanded of all men. I know what killed or better who killed it...but if I said it all hell would break loose.

I would like to know what or who killed honor.

Is it because the general populace believes injustice profits more than justice? The Republic

It is that kind of narrow mindedness that causes people to hate blacks or gays or jews or what ever you may be. You make a broad stereotype of men and then come and spew in on a message forum. Bravo. I can say for one I don't fit that stereotype tho I can understand why you have it. Every day I hear this crap from guys and it does get tiring. But the thing is to put your self above all that. Not stoop down to a level of "I hate all men because blah blah blah" I could say "I hate all blacks because I got beat up by one" but I don't because Thats just retarded. Or I could say I hate all women because my Ex girlfriend cheated on me for 6 months and dumped me. But I don't. You need to grow out of this child like mentality of having things be black and white.

Now now, don't pick fights...otherwise I might be tempted to mention that honor hasn't been demanded from women in recorded history. Decency maybe, but certainly not honor.



I'm not picking fights, trying to avoid one.

Ok. I think the short summary of the first post is as follows:

1. Casual sex is wrong
2. Treating women as inferior is wrong
3. Some men do these, and are thus evil.
4. The poster is annoyed that 3 is true.

Should I assume that my interpretation is accurate?

Should I assume that my interpretation is accurate?



Its not that simple Kzord.

Well to rebut what keeps this stereotypical male mentality alive?

If women stopped buying into it then the profit of said mentality would reach zero. So we can come to the conclusion that: is the supplier of a bad deed more evil than the ones who demand said deed?

Basically I blame humanity.

Its not that simple Kzord.

What did I miss out?

Well to rebut what keeps this stereotypical male mentality alive?

If women stopped buying into it then the profit of said mentality would reach zero. So we can come to the conclusion that: is the supplier of a bad deed more evil than the ones who demand said deed?

Basically I blame humanity.


Not all women buy into it.

I was just asking why alot of europeans use that words. Just a question, did I say you couldn't use it?


I doubt she care, what woman would be mad if men said how pretty she was?

ya but then you stuck in that comment about cuteness, my mistake if i mis interpreted.

back to the point at hand. you had a rant that men treat women like meat, but then you go and get men (and women) to say if they "hit" something

now i am a man and i would never use the word "hit" as in to have sex with cos to me it seems crude, especially in a serious situation. strange how i could now rant on you.....

"MY RANT ON LESBIANS"
All these lesbians keep treatin my female friends like meat. they point them out and then say things like "i'd hit it". my friend feels bad, its terrible, i am sick of them. all of them, even the ones who are NOTHING like that at all. stupid lesbians.

EDIT: ps i know there happens to be a large bit of sarcasm here, but when me and like 70% of my friends get insulted in one swoop i get a teensy bit offended

"Not all women buy into it."

Just like all men don't act like sex starved fools looking for a peice of ass.

Not all women buy into it.

Not all men sell it so to speek.

Like I said before, both genders are at fault for the rise of this type of immorality.

You're welcome! Seriously, a lot of the current crop of young men could learn a lot from guys like you.
Uh ... so could a lot of the current crop of young women! :D

Well I thought that if there was one forum that didn't subscribe to stereotypes, it was NS. I guess I was wrong.

Uh ... so could a lot of the current crop of young women! :D

honestly Eut
i'm thinkin of signin up for your classes :D :p

Excuse me, but please, get to scrubbing my damn floors woman. Do I have to get my belt off to beat you again?

You obey your patriarchal master or you get beaten, don't like it? Tough shit.

Thank you for giving me an intelligent response. You are one of the few who elevated yourself above childish flames and tried to add something to this, now If everybody would follow your lead.

Meh. Maybe if you didnt start a troll thread which flamed half the world's population you'd get more intelligent replies. But since you did all you can expect is flames in return.

An excellent quote from a friend of mine:

"When a woman doesn't know her place, just tell her to get in the kitchen and bake you a pie."

:)

Excuse me, but please, get to scrubbing my damn floors woman. Do I have to get my belt off to beat you again?

You obey your patriarchal master or you get beaten, don't like it? Tough shit.
That is un called for
Even as a joke

An excellent quote from a friend of mine:

"When a woman doesn't know her place, just tell her to get in the kitchen and bake you a pie."

:)
That is a horrible quote

Some people have no material of their own ... they can only steal half assed jokes form southpark

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.


I second every word of that, sister!
>=D

An excellent quote from a friend of mine:

"When a woman doesn't know her place, just tell her to get in the kitchen and bake you a pie."

:)

I've heard better, much better actually.

Excuse me, but please, get to scrubbing my damn floors woman. Do I have to get my belt off to beat you again?

You obey your patriarchal master or you get beaten, don't like it? Tough shit.

An excellent quote from a friend of mine:

"When a woman doesn't know her place, just tell her to get in the kitchen and bake you a pie."

:)I know these comments were almost certainly meant in jest, but even supposed humour about these issues is the kind of thing that leads Kishijoten (and others) to have the negative opinions about men that they do. For the most part, I believe that such negative opinions are unjustified, but if you wanted to actually help her cause, then you have both done an excellent job.

As the daughter of a woman who was beaten by her husband for years, I must confess to being rather offended by Kriegorgrad's remark, whether or not it was made in "humour".

That is a horrible quote

Some people have no material of their own ... they can only steal half assed jokes form southpark


I'll have you know South Park is a disgusting show.

I'm just very conservative with traditional values.

I'll have you know South Park is a disgusting show.

I'm just very conservative with traditional values.
Then you best not quote friends who did a bad job stealing jokes from it.

I'll have you know South Park is a disgusting show.

I'm just very conservative with traditional values.

Cognative dissonance...head exploding...no, wait - it makes perfect sense that someone with said values would not like south park, which openly derides them.

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

HEY!!! It really pisses me of when people blam whole groups of people for something... And I'm male, so I'm pissed off x2!!! And now, for my revenge!

My rant on lesbians:

I hate lesbians. They always kick me in the balls when I walk by. They insult me for being male. And, this one time, one of them GRABBED MY GIRLFRIENDS ASS!!! Down with lesbians:sniper: :mp5: :gundge: !!! Except for lesbian porn...

NOTE: The above was DRENCHED with sarcasm!

Just, don't blame whole groups of people for things. It's not my fault that all the guys you know are sexist assholes, so don't blame me for it.

Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like.
I'm a man. All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not for who a bunch of asshole men are.

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with!
So many women view men as meat and don't respect them. There are seriously a large number of women out there who think that men cannot be emotionally devastated; only their egos get bruised sometimes. This belief often leads to them treating men as toys, playing cruel games, etc. Fortunately because I don't "get involved" with just any girl with a transient lust for me, I have generally avoided this, but some friends of mine have not had such luck.

Just, don't blame whole groups of people for things. It's not my fault that all the guys you know are sexist assholes, so don't blame me for it.

I believe that is the point that most of the people on this thread have conveyed...either that or a general disgust with humanity...sometimes both.

As the Futurama-fan I am I have to correct you. It is not Prof Hubert that say this, but the nr 1.0 of the Central Bureaucracy in the episod "How Hermes Requisitioned His Groove Back".

I stand corrected, you're completely right.

Clearly, I'm in need of further review of Futurama, and would ask the community to support my education by chipping in to buy me those episodes that are available on DVD.

In deference to the original post, I promise to be more like Kiff than Zapp.

Ehh... Why are threads like this even allowed to reach a second page?

So many women view men as meat and don't respect them. There are seriously a large number of women out there who think that men cannot be emotionally devastated; only their egos get bruised sometimes. This belief often leads to them treating men as toys, playing cruel games, etc. Fortunately because I don't "get involved" with just any girl with a transient lust for me, I have generally avoided this, but some friends of mine have not had such luck.

You don't need to become involved with someone for them to treat your feelings like a plaything.

I'm a man. All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not for who a bunch of asshole men are.


So many women view men as meat and don't respect them. There are seriously a large number of women out there who think that men cannot be emotionally devastated; only their egos get bruised sometimes. This belief often leads to them treating men as toys, playing cruel games, etc. Fortunately because I don't "get involved" with just any girl with a transient lust for me, I have generally avoided this, but some friends of mine have not had such luck.
Well done, I think this thread is dually sexist, and nothing but flame.

Ehh... Why are threads like this even allowed to reach a second page?

Because so many people love to argue over them? 25 pages is quite impressive though

An excellent quote from a friend of mine:

"When a woman doesn't know her place, just tell her to get in the kitchen and bake you a pie." :)

uhhh.. if she doesn't know her place, how's telling her to get in her place gonna help? ;)

Humanity sucks.
People suck.

Get the fuck over it.

I know a few guys myself who are not like that, yes.
But the majority of them are. It's like I said to a friend of mine once;

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.
It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.

Humanity sucks.
People suck.

Get the fuck over it.

I know a few guys myself who are not like that, yes.
But the majority of them are. It's like I said to a friend of mine once;

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.
It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.
Ouch, the angst!

Ouch, the angst!
Yah. Sorry about that.

I had to do it to get my point across, however.

Ouch, the angst!

:D
-Equal Opportunity hater since 1990, because hating just ONE group of people makes no sense at all

Humanity sucks.
People suck.

Get the fuck over it.

I know a few guys myself who are not like that, yes.
But the majority of them are. It's like I said to a friend of mine once;

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.
It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.

a) Define "the majority".

b) And the majority of women aren't stupid, vapid bitches?

Humanity sucks.
People suck.

Get the fuck over it.

I know a few guys myself who are not like that, yes.
But the majority of them are. It's like I said to a friend of mine once;

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.
It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.

Oi. The only guy I know who's even remotely close to being like that is my dad's best friend.

End the dickery already, people.

Why is it the overall opinion that this behaviour is exclusive to men?

Sorry for the late post, but I'd just like to point out...

"The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect"

and then...

"and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie."

... whaaat? I might just be reading this wrong, but I didn't think drooling showed an immense amount of respect towards women.

a) Define "the majority".

b) And the majority of women aren't stupid, vapid bitches?

Touche, I suppose.

The majority, is 8 out of every 10 dudes I met.

And most are, yes.
However, it's annoying how men treat woman, especially lesbians.

Most men think we're in love for them, so we'll do them.

Females can be just as much of assholes as men can, but I have yet to met a female who has wanted me for my body and my body alone, as most men do.

Woman are cruel, yes.
But men can be just as cruel, if not more.

Humanity sucks.
People suck.

Get the fuck over it.

I know a few guys myself who are not like that, yes.
But the majority of them are. It's like I said to a friend of mine once;

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.
It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.

Oh for the love of.....

Please dont encourage these people any more, they need to be sectioned off from society where they can practise their man hating in peace and not make stupid threads on internet message boards.

For the record the VAST majority of men I know are nothing like your description of the average male, so lets stop with the anecdotal evidence....m'kay?

Oh come on, I'm sure if guys didn't give women this amount of attention we would be in trouble for that also.

As the daughter of a woman who was beaten by her husband for years, I must confess to being rather offended by Kriegorgrad's remark, whether or not it was made in "humour".

Well, I'm not a complete bastard, so I'll acknowledge that what I said was offensive: my bad.

However, to other people who've criticised me: look here. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=women_smell)

Oh come on, I'm sure if guys didn't give women this amount of attention we would be in trouble for that also.

That's because everything is our fault. Once you accept that, life is so much easier.

Oh for the love of.....

Please dont encourage these people any more, they need to be sectioned off from society where they can practise their man hating in peace and not make stupid threads on internet message boards.

For the record the VAST majority of men I know are nothing like your description of the average male, so lets stop with the anecdotal evidence....m'kay?

Did you read my post after that?
*sigh*

I got a little out of control, but the problem remains the same;
I met a lot of dudes like that.
It's just...

*shudder*

Yaaaaaahhhh...
You'd be surprised. A lot of men aren't like that. But there a lot that are. That's what I mean.
And it drives me insane.

*stabs self in the eye with a pencil for reading this thread*

I respect women, but I don't respect whiney bitchy feminists. Seriously, stop whining and just go be a lesbian quietly. You don't hear gay men saying "OH THANK GOD I'M GAY! I DON'T NEED TO PUT UP WITH WOMEN!"

My rambling leads to one point: stop failing.

That's because everything is our fault. Once you accept that, life is so much easier.
Well it's true that if a woman makes a sexist joke about a guy, it's funny. But when a guy makes a sexist joke about a woman, it's sexist and depraved.

*stabs self in the eye with a pencil for reading this thread*

can i have that pencil after you?

can i have that pencil after you?

*pulls pencil out of eternally ruined eye*

It's all yours, dude.

...
I'm sorry to hear that.

I do, however, agree that men who fit that description are worthy of only being purged from the gene pool like my ex-boyfriend. But, there are guys out there who are far better and treat you right. Like my current boyfriend. He acts like a child some times, but, hey, it's better than him acting like an asshole.

Girl... men aren't all the bad. I mean, what about some of your male relatives? Are they all really that evil?

Well it's true that if a woman makes a sexist joke about a guy, it's funny. But when a guy makes a sexist joke about a woman, it's sexist and depraved.

That was a biased statement.

I see guys making sexist jokes in groups of women all the time and visa versa. It depends on your familiarity with the group hearing the joke.

If I hear a woman making a sexist joke odds are I'm going to laugh but if it isn't funny then I might get a little angry. It all depends on circumstance.

Did you read my post after that?
*sigh*

I got a little out of control, but the problem remains the same;
I met a lot of dudes like that.
It's just...

*shudder*

Yaaaaaahhhh...
You'd be surprised. A lot of men aren't like that. But there a lot that are. That's what I mean.
And it drives me insane.

No i didnt read you other post. You posted it whilst I was writing mine.

I sometimes still get amazed how people still love treating groups of people like they are all the same instead of seeing individuals. Then any opinion they have about that group in reinforced in their mind if they see it again and any contradictory behaviour is dismissed as a freak occurence. Saves on thinking time I suppose. But what the hell do I know, maybe thats just crap.

*pulls pencil out of eternally ruined eye*

It's all yours, dude.

great.

*accidentaly stabs a bit too far and hits brain tissue*

*dies*

*is grateful*

That was a biased statement.

I see guys making sexist jokes in groups of women all the time and visa versa. It depends on your familiarity with the group hearing the joke.

If I hear a woman making a sexist joke odds are I'm going to laugh but if it isn't funny then I might get a little angry. It all depends on circumstance.

It all depends on if it's funny.

Plus everything is the man's fault. Everything. Accept, move on, get laid more often. Problem solved

I respect women, but I don't respect whiney bitchy feminists. Seriously, stop whining and just go be a lesbian quietly. You don't hear gay men saying "OH THANK GOD I'M GAY! I DON'T NEED TO PUT UP WITH WOMEN!"

My rambling leads to one point: stop failing.

/defeated

However, I will say this:
Woman still aren't getting what they deserve.
In almost every job woman get 75 cents to ever dollar a man gets.

I'm not an extremist feminist, but there are too many men like that out their in the world.
If you want to change it, change them.

Help us take down those assholes sullying YOUR name, and life goes on hitchless!

No i didnt read you other post. You posted it whilst I was writing mine.

I sometimes still get amazed how people still love treating groups of people like they are all the same instead of seeing individuals.

We are all part of a group. Sometimes, it's a group of one. Sometimes, seven in the same head.

You don't need to become involved with someone for them to treat your feelings like a plaything.
True. I mean don't let yourself get into a position where they can treat your feelings like a toy before you know them enough to trust that they won't.

I think my overall point was pretty valid. Men don't have a monopoly on being self-centred and whatever other complaints the OP had about us.

Help us take down those assholes sullying YOUR name, and life goes on hitchless!

As stated before you can't punish people for having a horrendous personality, as much as I wish we could.

I'm glad I'm a lesbian. It means I don't have to put up with a lover who always has their brian on their ass and their thoughts on their dick.

It also means I don't have to put up with them defining "Woman" as the fat tissue surronding the vagina.
See post #371 (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10305098&postcount=371).

Most men don't just think with their dick. I also notice that the guys who do so generally deserve the shallow girls that they do pick up. (I also notice how both archetypes generally think of themselves as the 'alphas' within their sex.)

/defeated

However, I will say this:
Woman still aren't getting what they deserve.
In almost every job woman get 75 cents to ever dollar a man gets.

I'm not an extremist feminist, but there are too many men like that out their in the world.
If you want to change it, change them.

Help us take down those assholes sullying YOUR name, and life goes on hitchless!

Done. While I'm busy doing that, could you do me a favor and go take out the manipulative cruel bitches sullying yours?

As stated before you can't punish people for having a horrendous personality, as much as I wish we could.

I was getting to you
*spin*

Okay. Here we go.

Yes. You can't.
But when everyone some one pisses me off, I just piss them off back. How?
Smacking them right across the face.
Then I completely ignore them.

(I also notice how both archetypes generally think of themselves as the 'alphas' within their sex.)

Personally, I'd rather be a gamma. we penetrate far more.

[/physics nerd

Done. While I'm busy doing that, could you do me a favor and go take out the manipulative cruel bitches sullying yours?

Agree.

Let this topic be a pact between us all! We shall rid the world of those who hurt others and run the name of our gender.

Personally, I'd rather be a gamma. we penetrate far more.

[/physics nerd

Bah, you cancer causing rays! Make me an electron..then I don't even have to bother existing when nobody's watching me (power to quantum physics)

Bah, you cancer causing rays! Make me an electron..then I don't even have to bother existing when nobody's watching me (power to quantum physics)

gamma isn't that dangerous in small amounts; it tends to go right through

Well, being a man (and abit of a newcomer here, so looking for good topics), I felt the need to comment.

OK, I have stuff to say, and my mind is screwy, so I need to put it in a linear order.


I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


Thank you very, very much.

I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.

I can understand what you’re going through, from an outsiders perspective. One of my family members is Homosexual, and she described great, great deals of unhappiness when she was growing up. Really, some people are stupid how they assume that homosexuality is a choice.





I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?



Now here is where I differ from you, being a man myself. The view of men being an obsessive species with lust and food on our minds is as cliché as it is absurd. I will admit that that is one of the first things we ogle, but don’t shoot us down. You guys (women in general, I should say) are quite beautiful. As such, there are certain body parts that seem to be picked out and stared at: the breasts, hips, and buttocks to name a few? Why? The curves, to be frank.
Secondly, that is not all that fascinates us. I guarantee you that if you sit next to a guy and laugh you will make him happier easily than if you let him stare. The happiness of Females are bloody infectious. God, you make even the best of us turn into babbling fools.




All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:


A’ight, you are respected, provided you have clothes on. Not to say that you don’t, but the women who walk around with tooth floss thongs and than bitch about unwanted attention are just being stupid. Stupidly stupid.
Secondly, MY GOD!!! WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT ONE GUY HAS SAID??? I have collected several different unpleasant names for being a nerd, bi, and other such things…but I’m not a pessimistic bastard about it! (Not calling you a bastard, I respect you for bringing this up…really!)




I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.



As humans we have not gotten past stupidity. There will never be getting past stupidity, it’s human nature. That being said, why let it affect you?
Oh yeah, the rapists? Think of them as people with really weird Oedipus Complex’s. They were screwed w/ as kids (beaten, ignored, molested, etc…), and as a result are screwy as adults. Don’t try and pull Thompson-esque crap by saying that it’s definitely the fact we’re men that makes us rapists, no way it could be an outside source. (BTW, I’m referring to Jack Thompson, video game dick)




I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

How much is enough to justify resentment? How many Nazi’s before it’s a holocaust? How many politicians before it’s bureaucratic shit? Look, there are cases of stupidity all over the place. And has anyone really, really snapped at you? I’ve perused this topic, and even other men have supported you, albeit denying your claim of all men being walking dicks.

Last thing, I promise, and than I'll shut up. Please excuse me if there are spelling errors or anything like that, I'm in a stoopid mood.

I was getting to you
*spin*

Okay. Here we go.

Yes. You can't.
But when everyone some one pisses me off, I just piss them off back. How?
Smacking them right across the face.
Then I completely ignore them.

As a guy; slapping someone across the face, especially in a zero tolerance college, leads to a lot of trouble.

Most of the guys in my hallway cheat on their girlfriends back home. How am I going to insure justice is done? I have pictures, but right now I'm debating within myself whether it's better for their loving girlfriends to know, or to go on peacefully.

However, I will say this:
Woman still aren't getting what they deserve.
In almost every job woman get 75 cents to ever dollar a man gets.



*Rises from the grave to make one more post*

First of all: please dont take this off topic.

Second: have you ever considered maybe dicrimination isnt the fault here?
Women have babies, and are more likely than men to stay at home to raise their kids, setting their careers back by years.
Men are more likey to ask for pay raises, therefore they are more likely to get them.
Maybe discrimination still has a hand in it, but you're going to have to a hell of a lot more to convince me of that than quoting one stat.

*Rises from the grave to make one more post*

First of all: please dont take this off topic.

Second: have you ever considered maybe dicrimination isnt the fault here?
Women have babies, and are more likely than men to stay at home to raise their kids, setting their careers back by years.
Men are more likey to ask for pay raises, therefore they are more likely to get them.
Maybe discrimination still has a hand in it, but you're going to have to a hell of a lot more to convince me of that than quoting one stat.


Eh, they want equality, but we pay, open doors and pull out chairs.

P.S. Sorry, more of a personal thing.

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

That is scary.People can write this shite and get away with it. All jokes aside - this is real hatred. It reminds me of parts of Mein Kampf. And noone bats an eyelid.

hey go to my rant on women, it'll show ya! women are really the eebil ones!

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

That is scary.People can write this shite and get away with it. All jokes aside - this is real hatred. It reminds me of parts of Mein Kampf. And noone bats an eyelid.

It is wonderfully refreshing to know that there are people who, using nothing more than words, can ignite rage sufficient to burn the world. Some people a violent death is far too good for.

Oy, oy, not cool! No matter how piss-headed a person is, is it really OK to cause pain to them?

Haha.

troll?

I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?
And how do women treat attractive men? The same way? Thought so.
You can have your self righteousness, but when it comes right down to it, we are all shallow, greedy bastards, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

troll?

Factual post you dismiss by labelling as a troll

Personally, I'm an asexual misogynist/misanthrope. I despise women as the lazy, greedy, catty, vain, hypocritical parasites that they are, but I don't like men either. I don't treat women like sexual objects, I just leave them alone.

It's awesome!:)

Anyway, to all those women out there who wish men would stop seeing women as sexual objects, be cafeful what you wish for. I have a strong suspicion that the male sex drive is the only thing stopping us from using you as target practice.

Factual post you dismiss by labelling as a troll

Uh woechamber I think you really were trolling, you totally dissed the women, had no facts, and even suggested that if I were to rape a woman I liked, thatshe would want me too. you also said that woman have made no contribution to society..

Well, I've been asked to lock this thread, and after several hours reading it all, I can finally render judgement.

Kishijoten, I suspect that you were angry or upset when you wrote the initial post - you come across as more reasonable later in the topic. However, that initial post is doing you no favours.

You also seem to be having some trouble distinguishing between flaming and constructive, if upset, opinion; most of the people here, especially in the first section of the thread, seem to be of the latter sort. Being tarred with the same brush will offend people of whatever stripe.

With that said, there are people who've posted in this thread with no intention of being constructive.

Kriegorgrad, flamebait is against NationStates rules, not to mention common ettiquette. This is your official warning - according to my paperwork it's your first. Please don't make a habit of it.

Woechamber, it upsets me that your first post here on the NationStates forums is something so filled with malice and ill-feeling that I am forced to delete it. You're forumbanned for three days - when you get back, please make reading the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) a priority.

Ultimately, this thread is not so terrible as to require locking (indeed, it contains, in places, some of the most intelligent discussion I've seen in General). I'm leaving it open for now, but I would like it to stay on topic, and I would rather not have to rule upon it again.

Please have a wonderful day.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Well, I've been asked to lock this thread, and after several hours reading it all, I can finally render judgement.

Kishijoten, I suspect that you were angry or upset when you wrote the initial post - you come across as more reasonable later in the topic. However, that initial post is doing you no favours.

You also seem to be having some trouble distinguishing between flaming and constructive, if upset, opinion; most of the people here, especially in the first section of the thread, seem to be of the latter sort. Being tarred with the same brush will offend people of whatever stripe.

With that said, there are people who've posted in this thread with no intention of being constructive.

Kriegorgrad, flamebait is against NationStates rules, not to mention common ettiquette. This is your official warning - according to my paperwork it's your first. Please don't make a habit of it.

Woechamber, it upsets me that your first post here on the NationStates forums is something so filled with malice and ill-feeling that I am forced to delete it. You're forumbanned for three days - when you get back, please make reading the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) a priority.

Ultimately, this thread is not so terrible as to require locking (indeed, it contains, in places, some of the most intelligent discussion I've seen in General). I'm leaving it open for now, but I would like it to stay on topic, and I would rather not have to rule upon it again.

Please have a wonderful day.

~ Tsar the Mod.

Ok...I was wondering why I couldn't find the origination of the trolling comment. Thanks for not locking the thread, parts of it are providing interesting discussion. :)

Well, I've been asked to lock this thread, and after several hours reading it all...


:eek: Sweet Jebus.

Though I hardly agree with miss Kishijoten's views upon men, I would like to point out the fact that this thread has rather frightening large reply base. I find this to be rather telling and I do wonder if some people, men in this case, feel attacked by her statements?

Ofcourse her very post was ment as an attack at men in general, though you must wonder if this was untrue then why then did it deserve such large amount of replies? ( Discarding the fact many posts where somewhat not quite usefull to the topic at hand).

I find that posts such as these truelly do not deserve the attention they enjoys. It has to be said that her experiance with men is very regrettable and sad. However does that allow people to make such a grotesque generalisation of nearly half the world population? A discussion that starts from these roots will hardly be productive, but then again a rant isn't a objective statement.

Dare I say to her that she should change her view upon men in the risk of sounding arrogant? Why not, I doubt my post is much worse than some of the "helpfull" comments ive seen earlier.

Miss Kishijoten, perhaps your view of men of been tainted by the men that have surrounded you early in life. It might be possible that because of this experiance you allready have with men you might have become rather selective in the traits men exhibit, tending only to view those traits connected with the negative aspect of the male personality.
Perhaps an attempt not to view every men as a potential "pig" would be in place here and view them just as another human being and judge them case by case upon character. Afterall...is that not the very same thing you ask us to do with you?

This was as they say "my 5 cents" and do forgive my poor attempt at mastering the english language.

I think this thread is getting out of hand. Time for make up sex.

Though I hardly agree with miss Kishijoten's views upon men, I would like to point out the fact that this thread has rather frightening large reply base. I find this to be rather telling and I do wonder if some people, men in this case, feel attacked by her statements?

Ofcourse her very post was ment as an attack at men in general, though you must wonder if this was untrue then why then did it deserve such large amount of replies? ( Discarding the fact many posts where somewhat not quite usefull to the topic at hand).

I find that posts such as these truelly do not deserve the attention they enjoys. It has to be said that her experiance with men is very regrettable and sad. However does that allow people to make such a grotesque generalisation of nearly half the world population? A discussion that starts from these roots will hardly be productive, but then again a rant isn't a objective statement.

Dare I say to her that she should change her view upon men in the risk of sounding arrogant? Why not, I doubt my post is much worse than some of the "helpfull" comments ive seen earlier.

Miss Kishijoten, perhaps your view of men of been tainted by the men that have surrounded you early in life. It might be possible that because of this experiance you allready have with men you might have become rather selective in the traits men exhibit, tending only to view those traits connected with the negative aspect of the male personality.
Perhaps an attempt not to view every men as a potential "pig" would be in place here and view them just as another human being and judge them case by case upon character. Afterall...is that not the very same thing you ask us to do with you?

This was as they say "my 5 cents" and do forgive my poor attempt at mastering the english language.


My god, I love you.

Question, though. I responded not because I felt attacked but because
A) I felt that a great wrong had been done to this woman
B) I love, absolutely love discussions like these where I have to (electronically) defend myself.

So, does that mean that I responded because I felt attacked? HA!! no, I just enjoy discussions! Now, i cannot speak for the rest of my group (men) when i say this, because obviously there are some who have no place in this forum, considering all they do is throw crap at each other, and occasionally drop it on themselves in the process. I am of course talking about Hughton:

Personally, I'm an asexual misogynist/misanthrope. I despise women as the lazy, greedy, catty, vain, hypocritical parasites that they are, but I don't like men either...

...the male sex drive is the only thing stopping us from using you as target practice.

(speaking of the dung-throwing) Anti-social, are we?

I think this thread is getting out of hand. Time for make up sex.

Remember that make-up sex, as stated in the syllabus, requires a note from a doctor explaining why you missed the regularly scheduled sex. The professor also reserves the right to present more challenging sex for the make-up. Regardless, make-up sex must be completed within ten days of the original sex date.

Remember that make-up sex, as stated in the syllabus, requires a note from a doctor explaining why you missed the regularly scheduled sex. The professor also reserves the right to present more challenging sex for the make-up. Regardless, make-up sex must be completed within ten days of the original sex date.

Mehercules!

after several hours reading it all

Christ on a bike.

*hands you a coke and some doritos*

Christ on a bike.

*hands you a coke and some doritos*
http://www.20six.co.uk/pub/Xfm_Breakfast_Show/christbike.jpg

http://www.20six.co.uk/pub/Xfm_Breakfast_Show/christbike.jpg

Speechless, eh?

Speechless, eh?
Yup :) unless you consider the old addage "A pictures worth a thousand words"

Wow... that was funny.

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.


Unfortunately, I agree with you. Most men are selfish conniving creatures that tend to use every woman they encounter. But then, I believe that 9 out of every 10 people you will ever meet are jerks. Of both sexes. So the odds are not very good. Unfortunately, however, most women are conditioned from birth to look for qualities in a man that lead them right to the very types they claim they abhor. Eventually, they grow disillusioned. Welcome to the club. This also applies to men, as well, but most of us men were quite happy with that situation. I was not. When I finally found my "perfect woman", I found that she was quite morally corrupt. I just wanted someone to love me for what I am, and to be as faithful to me as I wanted to be to her. I finally got that, in time. And I hope you find it as well, with whomever makes you happy. Don't give up on your happiness.

What's the point of ranting about your sexuality? You are who you are, and assuming you really are a lesbian, and not just a bisexual who hates men, the fact that you're attracted to women has nothing to do with the fact that men are pigs.

Must have burned her husbands dinner. Poor dear.

If women dont want to be seen as objects then whats with the "I will wear as little as legally possible" look that is so commen when they are out on the town.

Can't have it both ways dearie, sides men are biologically primed to notice curvy bits. Apreactating a womans body doesnt mean you disrespect her.

Maybe your just fat and ugly and couldnt get a guy!

*waits for explosion*

Oh Christ. Can I just say that, as a gay man, you are exactly what turns me off about women? Get off your high-horse and get over yourself. There are a lot of men out there who want absolutely nothing to do with you, won't ever look at your ass or tits, and don't even want to give you the time of day, and kudos to them for it, because a lot of women are just a waste of time because of how hung up they are on themselves and their supposedly alluring sexuality.

If you don't want men staring at your tits and ass, then stop wearing tight fitting jeans, stop wearing halter tops, stop wearing bikinis, and stop wearing short shorts. You don't see me walking around in a jockstrap, do you?

GAY POWER!!! You guys rock, not only do you not fight for women but you defend us hetros. WOOT GAY GUYS!

Let me tell you, I've been hit on guys while I worked in a factory wearing a baggy t-shirt and old, gross baggy jeans. I'm sure women in the arctic get hit on and stared at while wearing parkas for fuck's sake. We are sexual creatures and will be attracted ot people no matter whether they're wearing a potato sack or the most well put together outfit there is.

Its only natural to want to breed. Otherwise we would be dead

Well, I've been asked to lock this thread, and after several hours reading it all, I can finally render judgement.

Kishijoten, I suspect that you were angry or upset when you wrote the initial post - you come across as more reasonable later in the topic. However, that initial post is doing you no favours.

You also seem to be having some trouble distinguishing between flaming and constructive, if upset, opinion; most of the people here, especially in the first section of the thread, seem to be of the latter sort. Being tarred with the same brush will offend people of whatever stripe.

With that said, there are people who've posted in this thread with no intention of being constructive.

Kriegorgrad, flamebait is against NationStates rules, not to mention common ettiquette. This is your official warning - according to my paperwork it's your first. Please don't make a habit of it.

Woechamber, it upsets me that your first post here on the NationStates forums is something so filled with malice and ill-feeling that I am forced to delete it. You're forumbanned for three days - when you get back, please make reading the rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) a priority.

Ultimately, this thread is not so terrible as to require locking (indeed, it contains, in places, some of the most intelligent discussion I've seen in General). I'm leaving it open for now, but I would like it to stay on topic, and I would rather not have to rule upon it again.

Please have a wonderful day.

~ Tsar the Mod.


Good god. I am sorry for making you read all that. I am a very emotional person and have a habit of going based on that alone, but that is something I have gotten better at over the past years. I am however still a tad bit young to over come it completely. When you are as depressed as I am, it makes it hard to go on anything but that.

This was intended to spark some kind of debate, and hopefully cause both sides to see the errors in the way they treat each other; I hope people will refrain from flaming and take this chance to do just that. Even though I should have stated this better.

Ultimately, this thread is not so terrible as to require locking (indeed, it contains, in places, some of the most intelligent discussion I've seen in General).

Please have a wonderful day.

~ Tsar the Mod.
I bet that hurt to say

I stand corrected, you're completely right.

Clearly, I'm in need of further review of Futurama, and would ask the community to support my education by chipping in to buy me those episodes that are available on DVD.

In deference to the original post, I promise to be more like Kiff than Zapp.

Well, If you ever are in Umeå, Sweden you can always borrow my collection :)

Futurama is a good education to be a good guy. Kiff (nice guy) gets nice girl, Zapp (not so good guy) don't get girl.

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.


Phew...I just finished reading this entire thread-about 3hrs-and I know this is late, so I apologize. I also apologize if anything below has already been said and for the length of this post. The length is a necessary evil, in this case, in order to get my point across(Just bear with me, because I believe that I make some very valid points.):

I think that what we are all forgetting here is that one of the main reasons that women are objectified and degraded, nowadays that is, is because of the media. I mean think about it-seriously-when was the last time you heard any rap or hip-hop song that WASN'T about sex, being a pimp is cool, or being a player and cheating on your wife/girlfriend is okay?:confused:

Not to mention, all of the slutty clothes that are sold today, and just so they fit in all of the women buy them, even if they know they shouldn't be wearing them for any variety of reasons(ex:overweight). And the media glorifies all of this and even appears to condone such vulgarities, and yet there's not a single protest from anyone-adult, male, female, etc.-about removing such things from our society(at least no heard or credible protests). Plus, something that bugs me is that men are made to look like total idiots on a majority of T.V. shows/movies and pretty much the women are the only one's with any noticeable intelligence-the work, no doubt, of feminists and/or feminist sympathizers.(With the exception of horror movies, of course, where the women always trip and get killed first.)

So, it begs to question how any woman-esp. teen age group-can expect gentlemanly type behavior from the majority of men-also esp. teen age group-and vice versa(men expecting womanly behavior from women)when that type of behavior is no longer promoted, and nowhere to be found in today's society for the majority(From what I've seen, at any rate.), due to media glorification of the opposite behaviors. Plus, it seems to me, as far as I can see, that morality on whole is shunned, and having morality, or teaching it for that matter, is seen as opressing one's personal freedom, which is total BS by the way. Following a moral code in no way lessens one's freedom, because you can still decide if you want to follow it or not, right?

Anyway, back on topic. So, how can people like the OP judge the male gender on a factor that for all intents and purposes is being erased from our society as a whole. Now, the OP's statements do not offend me in any way, even though I'm a male, because I know them to not be based on solid evidence, and only on her particular case. This is not to say that I blame her, however, for having these feelings though, because all she can go on is her case/situation.

One final point is also that in our society we use the motto-"Sex Sales"-which is unfortunately true, because this kind of mindset is what helps to spur the abhorent/vulgar behavior, that is often mentioned in this thread, from both genders. So, in other words, both genders are at fault in this matter and not one or the other. Both "parties" have an equal part in these problems, and therefore both share the responsibility of solving these problems, and thus need to work together, instead of opposing each other, to solve these problems.

There I've said my peace, and once again I apologize for the length. Also, let me know if you're confused about anything in my post, and I'll gladly explain away your confusion.:)

she completely ignored me again
i try and get a intelligent convo goin and put in good points only to be ignored. typical :(

she completely ignored me again
i try and get a intelligent convo goin and put in good points only to be ignored. typical :(
Women eh?:rolleyes:

Phew...I just finished reading this entire thread-about 3hrs-and I know this is late, so I apologize. I also apologize if anything below has already been said and for the length of this post. The length is a necessary evil, in this case, in order to get my point across(Just bear with me, because I believe that I make some very valid points.):

<snip>


You get the point. I second this wholeheartedly!
I'm not annoyed about the OP and regret her bad experiences.
But I'm totally annoyed about this obnoxious media propaganda!
And I think it's a global, or, at least, a Western culture phenomenon.
Or should I say disease?
We do have the exactly same crap in the media here in Germany.
Over here you could admire an episode of a TV series called "Only a dead man is a good man". "Only a dead women is a good woman" on the other hand would be ABSOLUTELY impossible and politically incorrect of course.
This is not to say that I would endorse a show that mocks women the same way, but this ridiculous man-bashing needs to find an end!

You get the point. I second this wholeheartedly!
I'm not annoyed about the OP and regret her bad experiences.
But I'm totally annoyed about this obnoxious media propaganda!
And I think it's a global, or, at least, a Western culture phenomenon.
Or should I say disease?
We do have the exactly same crap in the media here in Germany.
Over here you could admire an episode of a TV series called "Only a dead man is a good man". "Only a dead women is a good woman" on the other hand would be ABSOLUTELY impossible and politically incorrect of course.
This is not to say that I would endorse a show that mocks women the same way, but this ridiculous man-bashing needs to find an end!

I see it a lot in advertising over here.

For example, there used to be a Kleenex advert where three women sit around in this cafe insulting men. I think it goes something like this:

"New man sized tissues? Why are they anything to do with men?"
"Well, they're thicker" *Here they all watch a man pushing a door marked "Pull" and all smirk...because we all know all the male genius's in the world stole their work from women*
"They're softer.." *Shows a gormless man helping his wife/girlfriend carry a lot of stuff for her...as if that's somehow a bad thing. They all laugh, then one drops the pack of tissues. An attractive male bends down and picks it up for them, smiling*
"And they're easier to pick up!"

Imagine an advert like that with a load of men sitting around talking about women and laughing about how moronic, emotionally unstable and sluttish they are.

They recently did show an advert for a mens magazine, with women attempting to do some tasks traditionally associated with men, such as DIY and washing the car whilst the man sits and reads the magazine. The woman always screws it up and the narrative says "Women - don't expect any help on a thursday". However, whilst the kleenex advert didn't make anyone bat an eyelid, people went mental over these adverts and complained by the hundreds.

I see it a lot in advertising over here.

For example, there used to be a Kleenex advert where three women sit around in this cafe insulting men. I think it goes something like this:

"New man sized tissues? Why are they anything to do with men?"
"Well, they're thicker" *Here they all watch a man pushing a door marked "Pull" and all smirk...because we all know all the male genius's in the world stole their work from women*
"They're softer.." *Shows a gormless man helping his wife/girlfriend carry a lot of stuff for her...as if that's somehow a bad thing. They all laugh, then one drops the pack of tissues. An attractive male bends down and picks it up for them, smiling*
"And they're easier to pick up!"

Imagine an advert like that with a load of men sitting around talking about women and laughing about how moronic, emotionally unstable and sluttish they are.

They recently did show an advert for a mens magazine, with women attempting to do some tasks traditionally associated with men, such as DIY and washing the car whilst the man sits and reads the magazine. The woman always screws it up and the narrative says "Women - don't expect any help on a thursday". However, whilst the kleenex advert didn't make anyone bat an eyelid, people went mental over these adverts and complained by the hundreds.
quite. its objectionable... if its sexist for men to say those things about women, then the reverse is true. oh, but no... its 'just a bit of fun' when women do it. :rolleyes:
my mum's a bit of a feminist (a lot of a feminist when she was younger) and she still gets tonnes of feminist joke emails sent to her... always degrading in some way about how stupid men are or how much better women are at everything. to her its "just a bit of fun" but when we can't even get away with 'dumb blonde' jokes, its unfair. either both sides can be sexist or neither. i told her a few years back that those emails irritated me and she stopped reading the (apparently) funny ones out.

seriously, its about respect. feminism is about men respecting women, not about women disrespecting men (as so often seems to be the case, re those jokes or those adverts of yours)

hold on you cant condemn men because of our sexual urges , what do you want us to do chop off our nads, its a biological impulse to want to f**k someone you find attractive and there are plenty of fucked up women in the world like the ones who tell guys that they are on the pill when they're not so they can get pregnant ant trap the guy in the relationship so we can all f**kin generalise but i think judgeing the many by the actions of the few is moronic and immature

seriously, its about respect. feminism is about men respecting women, not about women disrespecting menYes! I'm sure it's been said many times on this thread, but feminism - by the definition I was taught when I took an undergraduate module in it, anyway - simply seeks mutual equality and mutual respect. A lot of people complain about the name, but during first wave feminism, it was simply factual that women were subjugated in the vast majority of cases. Therefore, the name focused on those that sought equality and it stuck.

Unfortunately, it's now the vocal man-hating minority that make a name for feminism. They are mad, radical, pathetic bitches for the most part and I consider their claims and behaviour to be an insult to those of us that simply want to be afforded the same respect and opportunities as men.

The jokes that your mother was sent, the ads that Laenis talks about, all the rest of that kind of shit - that's not expressing true feminist sentiments, in my humble opinion. Such things are just stupid.

Yeah, there seem to be boatloads of examples like these :rolleyes:

I just read a nice article about feminism:


http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/mikeadams/2006/01/23/183352.html

Also some comments are really "lovely".

And for not being misunderstood I want to remark that I dislike feminism but
not women. As already said in prior posts in this thread: It's about the person not the gender.
Maybe one day the media will realise that, too!

Maybe one day the media will realise that, too!
the media sure would seem a cause of the problems with feminism. its a more interesting story to talk about man-hating radical 'feminists' than to write about true and worthwhile feminism. it sells more papers.
ergo, the media portrays the feminist movement (past and present) as radical.
and somehow that pervades into popular culture, ends up seeming 'ok' and you get the dichotomy of sexism we see today, where its ok for women to be sexist about men (we see it on tv and read it in magazines all the time... its part of popular culture) but for men to be sexist about women: that's a no-no.

the media is (at least a large part) to blame, but so are all of us for lapping it up and just allowing this false view of feminism to colour our culture. perhaps there does need to be a masculinist movement - a backlash as was discussed before - to correct this... not so sure myself, but i don't see this anti-man sentiment going away otherwise.


the other thing is, of course, so much has been achieved by the feminist movement throughout the last century or so... things aren't quite equal yet, but they are a damn sight better than they were. hence the plight of everyday women is no longer a big enough story for the media to latch onto and they move towards the radical end of the spectrum to get their stories whenever the feminist issue rises up again.


*sigh* in so many ways, i hate the media (and journalists)... this is just another reason :headbang:

Women eh?:rolleyes:

i mean its rare i even wander into a serious thread in general
*sighs*

eminism is about men respecting women, not about women disrespecting men
Not quite. Feminism is about the idea that ALL PEOPLE deserve the same respect, regardless of their gender or sex. It's not about men respecting women in particular, it's about men and women recognizing that there is no reason to differentiate between the sexes when it comes to the level of respect you show.

hold on you cant condemn men because of our sexual urges , what do you want us to do chop off our nads, its a biological impulse to want to f**k someone you find attractive and there are plenty of fucked up women in the world like the ones who tell guys that they are on the pill when they're not so they can get pregnant ant trap the guy in the relationship so we can all f**kin generalise but i think judgeing the many by the actions of the few is moronic and immature
I don't think anybody is condemning men for HAVING sexual impulses. What people are complaining about (and rightfully so) is that many men feel entitled to express those urges whenever, wherever, and however they wish. That isn't "manly," that's childish, like spitting in somebody else's house.

Not quite. Feminism is about the idea that ALL PEOPLE deserve the same respect, regardless of their gender or sex. It's not about men respecting women in particular, it's about men and women recognizing that there is no reason to differentiate between the sexes when it comes to the level of respect you show.


i could substantiate why i put it the way i did, but i can't be bothered :P
suffice to to say... *nods*

Imagine an advert like that with a load of men sitting around talking about women and laughing about how moronic, emotionally unstable and sluttish they are.

And imagine all the adverts that portray female human beings as nothing more than life-support for a pair of tits.

Let's face it, the advertising world is generally pretty disgusting. For example, look at commercials for domestic products: commercials continue to perpetuate the image of a bumbling, incapable, unattractive husband who is helpless to change a diaper until his surprisingly model-ish wife steps in to do his chores for him. These images demean both genders; men are portrayed as incompentant children who need to marry Mommy-women because they can't perform simply household tasks, and women are depicted as over-sexualized servant drones that exist only to fulfill male desires.

If you want to find gender equity and respect, you probably shouldn't be watching adverts.

i could substantiate why i put it the way i did, but i can't be bothered :P
suffice to to say... *nods*
Lol, fair enough...knowing you, I figured that was what you were getting at, but it never hurts to repeat the message a few extra times! :)

/defeated

However, I will say this:
Woman still aren't getting what they deserve.
In almost every job woman get 75 cents to ever dollar a man gets.

I'm not an extremist feminist, but there are too many men like that out their in the world.
If you want to change it, change them.

Help us take down those assholes sullying YOUR name, and life goes on hitchless!

Oh I don't mind about equality - it's only fair after all. But when a feminist like this comes along, it just begs for such an... Inappropriate response. As I've said, women get my respect, feminists who judge all men on their interactions with a few don't get my respect. Enough said.

However, the wage thing shouldn't happen; we're in the West, and isn't the West meant to be meritocratic? Crusade for that, please, but when one of the more extreme feminists screams "MEN ARE INFIDELS! GLORY TO MOTHER FEMALE", give them a nice old fashioned "shut up."

Thanks.

And Tsraine, I understand I've been very naughty.

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?




You don't sound like a lesbian , you sound like a Pissed off confused Hetrosexual who has been hurt by some boy/man. If you were a true lesbian you would not care about male sexual behavior.

the media sure would seem a cause of the problems with feminism. its a more interesting story to talk about man-hating radical 'feminists' than to write about true and worthwhile feminism. it sells more papers.
ergo, the media portrays the feminist movement (past and present) as radical.
and somehow that pervades into popular culture, ends up seeming 'ok' and you get the dichotomy of sexism we see today, where its ok for women to be sexist about men (we see it on tv and read it in magazines all the time... its part of popular culture) but for men to be sexist about women: that's a no-no.

the media is (at least a large part) to blame, but so are all of us for lapping it up and just allowing this false view of feminism to colour our culture. perhaps there does need to be a masculinist movement - a backlash as was discussed before - to correct this... not so sure myself, but i don't see this anti-man sentiment going away otherwise.


the other thing is, of course, so much has been achieved by the feminist movement throughout the last century or so... things aren't quite equal yet, but they are a damn sight better than they were. hence the plight of everyday women is no longer a big enough story for the media to latch onto and they move towards the radical end of the spectrum to get their stories whenever the feminist issue rises up again.


*sigh* in so many ways, i hate the media (and journalists)... this is just another reason :headbang:


To be fair, though, I've been around enough dedicated feminists (which is odd, since I count myself as a dedicated feminist) to say that from what I've seen, the man-hater is more of an exaggeration about what is going on than an outright fabrication.

What I mean by this is that feminists will not, at least not usually or initially, posit themselves as hating men; they like men, but just want men to respect them. The problem, however, is that respect in this instance is deemed as anything that suggests that a woman could in any way do anything inferior to any man. We were talking the other day in my Ethnic and Minority Politics course, and the subject about women's ability to read directions came up. Of course, there is a stereotypical view that women can't find their way around in a car, but one based to some extent on biology: most studies I've read have concluded that on average, women have less wiring in their brains in the area devoted to spatial orientation than men. As a result, on average women have a harder time determining direction, which is something that is fairly consistently found on tests like there West Point orienteering course, where women officers consistently lag behind their fellow (male) officer's scores. Of course, this doesn't mean that no women could ever do as well as a man, or that there aren't men who are bad at reading maps, but that on average, a man will be able to read a map faster and more efficiently than the average woman. Based on the biology, the empirical data, and the fact that there is an evolutionary story for this (women in prehistoric days didn't need to know how to get from point A to point B when they were busy nursing and digging up yams, whereas men did if they wanted to go kill a wildebeast and bring the meat back), you would think that this would be fairly uncontested. Yet all the women in the class were quick to say that they didn't believe this. Start talking about how women have superior reflexes or G-tolerance, which makes them better suited for combat pilot duty however, and these women will cheer you on.

What's the point of this extended anecdote? Simply that if I had tried to point out the fact that women in the aggregate are less naturally inclined then men in the aggregate in a skill, they would have looked at me suspiciously or dangerously and denounced what I said despite the fact that the evidence and the evolutionary story are on my side. Had I pointed out how women can do something better than a man, however, I would have been rewarded for my behavior. Most of the women doing this would call themselves feminist, but this is not feminism. It's a perversion of it. Feminism isn't about the denial of reality in physical differences, or at least it shouldn't be, but about the fact that women in the aggregate are not as good as men in the aggregate at reading maps or picking up heavy weights is one that has no bearing on their political rights as human beings; more specifically, that those material facts are inconsequential when speaking about equality, because we base our granting of rights upon the rationality of a human being, not his or her map-reading capacity. The fact that the feminists in that class don't seem to recognize it and appear hostile to any contrary views suggests to me that the man-hating stereotype is not as incorrect, however stereotypical, as you suggest.

******************************************************

On the main point about how men treat women as sex objects, I feel it necessary to ask: how many of you women who complain about being degraded by men actually reward good male behavior with dates, sex, etc? I ask because it seems to me that while you really admire chivalrous behavior in the abstract, the basis of who you have sex with is based purely on charisma, a trait that goes far more hand-in-hand with douchebaggery than the humility of a true paladin. As such, I find it highly unsurprising that you often find yourself going out with guys who disrespect you and only want to get in your pants: you reward that behavior, rather than asking out the shy guy who always holds the door open and offers to carry your books but trips over his own words when he speaks. If nice guys didn't always finish last, you might find more of them around.

<snip>
On the main point about how men treat women as sex objects, I feel it necessary to ask: how many of you women who complain about being degraded by men actually reward good male behavior with dates, sex, etc? I ask because it seems to me that while you really admire chivalrous behavior in the abstract, the basis of who you have sex with is based purely on charisma, a trait that goes far more hand-in-hand with douchebaggery than the humility of a true paladin. As such, I find it highly unsurprising that you often find yourself going out with guys who disrespect you and only want to get in your pants: you reward that behavior, rather than asking out the shy guy who always holds the door open and offers to carry your books but trips over his own words when he speaks. If nice guys didn't always finish last, you might find more of them around.

Wow...you don't often hear paladins used in everyday comparisons. Personally, I think it's flawed, because paladins tend to be somewhat religious zealots, but definate points for using the comparison. (CG>LG any day of the week, btw ;))

as some of you sayd bevore, feminism is NOT about women hating man or women thinking that the are better then man. its about fighting for equal rights! fighting for the same payment. fighting for the right to vote, fighting to get the same good jobs as men. fighting to go to scool etc. and yes we still need that. im surprised that not every female on this earth is a feminist!

ppl still confuse feminists whit women who hate men so much that the turn in to those women who dont shave there armpits and spit on every men the come acros etc. you kno the kinde i mean. but thats not who we are. we are not like that. what will the world be if we turn it around? we wuld have the same, but then women wuld rule. and men wuld be surpresed that will put us in the same place thats not what we want we just want to be found equal.

thank god that in most countrys we have pretty much the same rights now (thanks to feminists male and female) . but in a lot of them we dont. just look at china and idiots as the taliban or those poor women in africa who get raped on a dayli bases cus those assholes think the have the right to stick it were ever the want to. :upyours:

Wow...you don't often hear paladins used in everyday comparisons. Personally, I think it's flawed, because paladins tend to be somewhat religious zealots, but definate points for using the comparison. (CG>LG any day of the week, btw ;))

I was using paladin more in the general sense of upright knight who upholds a strict code of courtesy and honor, especially to women, than the D&D sense, but you go with what works, I suppose;). . .

I was using paladin more in the general sense of upright knight who upholds a strict code of courtesy and honor, especially to women, than the D&D sense, but you go with what works, I suppose;). . .

True, paladins do get shinier armor than knights, and thus make for a better comparison *oooh, shiny*

Hey, Kishijoten,

I just read your post, and damn, hit on spot! Let's make one thing clear, I'm male, and straighter then an arrow, but I can see where you're coming from - the obsession with females bodies is almost disgusting, and I can see where you're coming from. I'm nauseated by guys of my age going "Wow she's got a nice rack" and "Damn I'd like to bang her", but not all are doing that.

Myself, I appreciate beauty - I'm not gonna lie, a nice pair of breasts is certainley attractive, however I won't stare at them, at most I'll look at them for a flash (I *try* to look in the face =P), since I understand that not many women appreciate that from everyone. Nowadays I've got a girlfriend and well she's got all I need and some more, and even then I tend to look into the face (except when appropriate to look at other places =P) nor will I comment on hers or anyone else's figure and looks unless I feel it is fitting and could possibly put a smile on her face and make her feel appreciated.

You see, the thing is, that I think you look towards the group that you see mostly - those are the loud, obnoxious jerks. Like it or not, the nice guys you can usually find sitting silently in the corner of the classroom, or walking in the supermarket (passing by geeky assecories of his choice). Thing is most people don't see these people at all, since we're so quiet of ourselves. Attention is not something we enjoy to much of, apart from certain peers =P.

Hey, Kishijoten,

I just read your post, and damn, hit on spot! Let's make one thing clear, I'm male, and straighter then an arrow, but I can see where you're coming from - the obsession with females bodies is almost disgusting, and I can see where you're coming from. I'm nauseated by guys of my age going "Wow she's got a nice rack" and "Damn I'd like to bang her", but not all are doing that.

Myself, I appreciate beauty - I'm not gonna lie, a nice pair of breasts is certainley attractive, however I won't stare at them, at most I'll look at them for a flash (I *try* to look in the face =P), since I understand that not many women appreciate that from everyone. Nowadays I've got a girlfriend and well she's got all I need and some more, and even then I tend to look into the face (except when appropriate to look at other places =P) nor will I comment on hers or anyone else's figure and looks unless I feel it is fitting and could possibly put a smile on her face and make her feel appreciated.

You see, the thing is, that I think you look towards the group that you see mostly - those are the loud, obnoxious jerks. Like it or not, the nice guys you can usually find sitting silently in the corner of the classroom, or walking in the supermarket (passing by geeky assecories of his choice). Thing is most people don't see these people at all, since we're so quiet of ourselves. Attention is not something we enjoy to much of, apart from certain peers =P.

right!, the thing is we dont minde if a guy looks at us whit that look in his aye that says Dang! if i see a cute guy i look at him that way as wel. its those guys that are walking behinde you and make rude guestures and rude comments etc. thats annoying and shows no respect but sadly those are the once you remember the most cus the usualy piss you off. and maybe let you think `those`men are annoying. Its ok if you finde a girl or boy hot. that natural but stay civelised

With all due respect, I don't think you've awarded us that same courtesy. I don't treat women like "pieces of meat". I never will. I find your suggestion that all men do so quite offensive, actually.
She specifically states not all men are like that.

Yeah, some things men are better at and some things women are better at. Like the whole multi-tasking thing - women are always pointing out how females are naturally better at multi tasking, which is an undisputed fact. However, if you point out "Well, yes, that's true. Men are better at giving one task their full concentration though" they go ape, and act as if you are a sexist because you think men are equal to women, not inferior.

Men are more likely to be genius's, but they are also more likely to go to the other extreme and be mentally retarded or just really dumb. Each gender has its advantages and disadvantages, and overall I think it evens out.

Yeah, some things men are better at and some things women are better at. Like the whole multi-tasking thing - women are always pointing out how females are naturally better at multi tasking, which is an undisputed fact. However, if you point out "Well, yes, that's true. Men are better at giving one task their full concentration though" they go ape, and act as if you are a sexist because you think men are equal to women, not inferior.

Men are more likely to be genius's, but they are also more likely to go to the other extreme and be mentally retarded or just really dumb. Each gender has its advantages and disadvantages, and overall I think it evens out.
the male brain is larger but the female brain has more folds...

(IIRC)

the male brain is larger but the female brain has more folds...

(IIRC)

To be fair, though, I'm not sure that matters. There has never been a correlation between brain size and intelligence, and those people who actually have no wrinkles in their brain (there are actually some) tend to be only slightly mentally retarded, but not overly so. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a linear relationship between the depth of the folds in the brain and intelligence either.

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.
Well there really is the heart of your opinion isn't it. You who have lived an extraordinarly difficult life are projecting your bias's and negativity in the form of general hate. Your opinions are based on no real universal truths but overly unique circumstances which for the general population do not apply.

A statement that because as a child I was molested and abused by a homosexual and thus all homosexuals are pedofiles holds the same truth as your argunment..(essentially none). There are plenty of girls who live perfectly happy lives, date gentlemen, get married and have perfectly lovely children never experiancing abuse or adultery.... just not you.

And you put down men for acting on impules every human experiances. When you see someone your attracted to on the street.. your not thinking my what a wonderful personality... your opinion is based on one thing, phyisiology. Man or woman, straight or not.. we are imprinted to act this way. Why do we like physically fit people over unhealthy people (at first glance) because our bodies say they have better genes, and so those genes are fit to be spread to our off spring. Even though you (obviously being homosexual) dont logically or conciously think this way.. your body does.

Men are simply more confident to express these feelings outright, while you arn't. Only looking at what is in the inside is by its nature shallow... and so your opinions are thus.

sum up...this discussion has revealed how shallow and bias you are.. sorry to hear it, hopefully insight will open your mind. You are as closed as the sexist men you dehumanize. THis is not to be outright insulting but to be the viewpoint of an objective observer

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

That is scary.People can write this shite and get away with it. All jokes aside - this is real hatred. It reminds me of parts of Mein Kampf. And noone bats an eyelid.
Noone bats an eyelid? Isn't the vast majority of this thread condemning extreme "feminists" even when to a much much lesser degree than this?

I don't quite understand why people in this thread are acting like noone cares about this kind of thing when it's obvious that they do from the responses iright here n this thread. Not to say that it isn't a problem or that people shouldn't be doing something to combat it, but it seems obvious to me that people like this don't just "get away with it" and that it isn't accepted.

Also, the reason it differs to Mein Kampf is that the person who wrote it has no real power and is going to get nowhere so people don't pay as much attention to it. It's just as sickening of course, but not the same because I highly doubt anything will become of it (or I sincerely hope not).