NationStates Jolt Archive

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why. As If I know why, it just happened. Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume some are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word; disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men very much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad a lot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like. but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, it’s those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

You confuse some jerks out there with all men. It would be the same as, after having some bad relationship experiances, I stated that all women are bitches. They are not, nor are all men pigs.

I'm sorry you've run into the jerks and a$$holes of the world, but is it right to condem half of humanity for the actions of a few?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look likeNo. Hey, at least I'm honest!;)

You confuse some jerks out there with all men. It would be the same as, after having some bad relationship experiances, I stated that all women are bitches. They are not, nor are all men pigs.

I'm sorry you've run into the jerks and a$$holes of the world, but is it right to condem half of humanity for the actions of a few?



I'm not. There some good men, but the majority seem to be otherwise.

That is how I feel and nothing will change it.

Of everything you wrote, this statement is the most telling.

Sexual trolling.. nice. :cool:

No. Hey, at least I'm honest!;)



I am in no mood for jokes nor am I amused.

*sigh*

Sexual trolling.. nice. :cool:


Sexual trolling...wasn't that the Weird Al Yankovic version of "Sexual Healing"?

Limme guess... You're under 30.

And you're right, mostly.

We tend to be pigs, at least until we get a little experiance and realize that.

Then some of us wise up...

Not all, but some...

15? Could be 16. Not older than that. Yet she uses the word men all the time.

I am in no mood for jokes nor am I amused.
Who's joking?

Good lord. :rolleyes:


Can't you people TRY to act civilized?

Limme guess... You're under 30.

And you're right, mostly.

We tend to be pigs, at least until we get a little experiance and realize that.

Then some of us wise up...

Not all, but some...



20 and from my past experience with men alot tend to get worse. Some wised up but alot seem to get worse, like a former friend of mine who has 5 kids by 3 women.

I am in no mood for jokes nor am I amused.

I would've guessed that one of the benefits of being a lesbian would be not being particularly concerned about what men think. Why not replace righteous anger with effortless disinterest?

Sexual trolling.. nice. :cool:
Yeah not even bothering looking for understanding or discussion. Go strait to a non informitive rant.

Oh well if she was looking for a bunch of defensive males tired of geting slamed like this as much as she is tired of being treated as a sexual object, she is going to get it.

Good lord. :rolleyes:


Can't you people TRY to act civilized?

With all due respect, I don't think you've awarded us that same courtesy. I don't treat women like "pieces of meat". I never will. I find your suggestion that all men do so quite offensive, actually.

I'm not. There some good men, but the majority seem to be otherwise.
The majority? There are over 6 billion people on this planet. The male to female ratio is 51% to 49%, meaning that there is at least 3 billion males out there. Many of whom, I would go out on a limb and say, are nice enough folks who do treat women well (but I will add; within the bounds of their culture).

Have you met them all?

Like I said, I am sorry for the jerks and the fact that your sexuality attracts them. That is wrong and it shouldn't happen, and we're slowly changing that. I am sorry that there are always going to be guys who do view women as moving sex objects. But many do not, and it's not fair to condem all of the guys.

I'd say you wouldn't accept a guy condeming all women, or stating all women are just for sex, right? You state that you want guys to know you for you, your personality and individuality, right? Extend us the same courtasy please.

Good lord. :rolleyes:


Can't you people TRY to act civilized?
Like you did with that off the handle rant

That was hardly any more "civil" then the rest of them.

Good lord. :rolleyes:


Can't you people TRY to act civilized?

By making broad judgements about others?

With all due respect, I don't think you've awarded us that same courtesy. I don't treat women like "pieces of meat". I never will. I find your suggestion that all men do so quite offensive, actually.
Agreed ... having a "do as I say not as I do" attitude is very telling

Being a man I find this thread blatently offensive...

Except it's true.

Granted, it's not true of all men (and I like to fancy myself as being one of the 'enlightened'), but the behavior is not entirely the fault of men. It is partially the fault of women.

In a certain sense, what those "pigs" want is somewhat more pure than what the non-pigs want (or claim to want). This is due as much to biology as it is to society. Men think about sex a lot. Assuming that non-pig men are like me, then even they, though perfectly capable of having female friends based on criteria other than sexuality, will still think about what it would be like to have sex with those women. It's simply the nature of the beast.

The counter-argument is, of course, that women, too, have their own pigs. Granted they are of a type not generally viewed as being 'disgusting' by the populace in general, but they are there.

In conclusion, people are stupid, ugly animals.

20 and from my past experience with men alot tend to get worse. Some wised up but alot seem to get worse, like a former friend of mine who has 5 kids by 3 women.
Hey!


I have 5 kids by two women... what's the big deal! It doesn't mean I'm an asshole...


Three of them are adults now and I can honestly say I've supported all of them until they were at least 18...

I'm not. There some good men, but the majority seem to be otherwise.

I agree wholeheartedly, but I have to ask...define "good".

Agreed ... having a "do as I say not as I do" attitude is very telling
And what else is new with the rightously pissed off on this board? :D

This thread could use some Dr. Phil.

Hey!


I have 5 kids by two women... what's the big deal! It doesn't mean I'm an asshole...


Three of them are adults now and I can honestly say I've supported all of them until they were at least 18...



He cheated on all 3 women and left them for nothing.

Oh I just love generalization about a large group of people. :rolleyes:



To be straight forward...You are pigs! I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men all that much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad alot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

So, you're telling me that you interviewed ALL men around the world and they all act like this? Yea. To me, it's going to take more than a nice ass and tits to impress me. A woman got to be able to hold a converstation. Now I mean intelligence converstation. I don't want to talk about lipsticks, or boy bands etc. That stuff just causes me great mental pains. A woman must show that she is smart and is intrested in fair play. What I mean by fair play, she can't have everything her way, she must be willing to compromise.

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like, but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it.

Ah something I know too well. Before I had my last jaw reconstruction surgery, the general public haven't been able to get past my outer looks either. I have great characters, personality, a value system, and I am considered very intelligent. Espically in the field of history and the written art. However, most people just think I'm a retard because of the way I look and have lower expectation for me. Which sucks. So I agree with you on this point.

Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

:headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, its those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.

I would like to point out that not ALL men are like this.


That is how I feel and nothing will change it.

Let's play a little role reversal, and if I'm right, this should come back and bite me in the ass. You know women aren't so innocent. I mean I cannot count how many women I see on campus that wear shirts that umm show off their breast, or wear tight shorts that are too short. Some of them even have words written on the back of their short on their ass. What kind of repsonse are these women expecting by dressing like this? I avoid women like these and I go for the conservative dresser.

Women also have the same problem. I cannot tell you how many convo. I've heard between women where women ask about the guy's "size", or what car he drives etc. "Ohhh he's hot/cute/sexy etc." is a common phrase among women at my campus. Also, guys who don't meet up to these high standards are left in the dust, like me. Ah well. So you see women are guilty of this too.

So, before you start bitching about men, just remember that the door swings both ways.

And what else is new with the rightously pissed off on thos board? :D
Lol fair enough I just hope this turns into a discussion rather then people just angerly replying to the OP like normaly happens

Being a man I find this thread blatently offensive...

Except it's true.

Granted, it's not true of all men (and I like to fancy myself as being one of the 'enlightened'), but the behavior is not entirely the fault of men. It is partially the fault of women.

In a certain sense, what those "pigs" want is somewhat more pure than what the non-pigs want (or claim to want). This is due as much to biology as it is to society. Men think about sex a lot. Assuming that non-pig men are like me, then even they, though perfectly capable of having female friends based on criteria other than sexuality, will still think about what it would be like to have sex with those women. It's simply the nature of the beast.

The counter-argument is, of course, that women, too, have their own pigs. Granted they are of a type not generally viewed as being 'disgusting' by the populace in general, but they are there.

In conclusion, people are stupid, ugly animals.



That is why I hate the human race in general. I have stated that before. It is clear that all but maye 2 or 3 people elevated themselves about flaming and added something to this.

He cheated on all 3 women and left them for nothing.
OK well then say he's a cheat, his procreativity is really incidental.

That is how I feel and nothing will change it.

So much for the myth that only straight white men are capable of hate speech.

Please, please, please don't EVER become straight. Please avoid men at all costs, and especially men capable of being sperm donors, not to mention any sperm donated by said men. That way you will never reproduce. Passing on the genes of someone with your attitude, not to mention your deviant lifestyle choice, would be a crime against humanity.

And by the way, if you want not to be judged on your looks by men, just open your mouth whenever a man comes within earshot. He will be so repulsed by your vindictiveness, spite and hatred that more than likely he won't even remember what you look like, only how evil you sound.

Lol fair enough I just hope this turns into a discussion rather then people just angerly replying to the OP like normaly happens

What? How'd you get out here!? Bad optimist, bad! Now go back to your cage and play with the other optimists like the good little optimist you should be.

;)

He cheated on all 3 women and left them for nothing.
And how many men do you know who are kind and dedicated fathers who have never cheated?

This thread could use some Dr. Phil.

This thread could use some well-placed Quagmire, I say.. :)

On point, to the OP.. If you're comfortably lesbian, with no interest in "going straight," then why the hostility toward men? You needn't deal with them.. right?

Oh I just love generalization about a large group of people. :rolleyes:




So, you're telling me that you interviewed ALL men around the world and they all act like this? Yea. To me, it's going to take more than a nice ass and tits to impress me. A woman got to be able to hold a converstation. Now I mean intelligence converstation. I don't want to talk about lipsticks, or boy bands etc. That stuff just causes me great mental pains. A woman must show that she is smart and is intrested in fair play. What I mean by fair play, she can't have everything her way, she must be willing to compromise.



Ah something I know too well. Before I had my last jaw reconstruction surgery, the general public haven't been able to get past my outer looks either. I have great characters, personality, a value system, and I am considered very intelligent. Espically in the field of history and the written art. However, most people just think I'm a retard because of the way I look and have lower expectation for me. Which sucks. So I agree with you on this point.



:headbang:



I would like to point out that not ALL men are like this.



Let's play a little role reversal, and if I'm right, this should come back and bite me in the ass. You know women aren't so innocent. I mean I cannot count how many women I see on campus that wear shirts that umm show off their breast, or wear tight shorts that are too short. Some of them even have words written on the back of their short on their ass. What kind of repsonse are these women expecting by dressing like this? I avoid women like these and I go for the conservative dresser.

Women also have the same problem. I cannot tell you how many convo. I've heard between women where women ask about the guy's "size", or what car he drives etc. "Ohhh he's hot/cute/sexy etc." is a common phrase among women at my campus. Also, guys who don't meet up to these high standards are left in the dust, like me. Ah well. So you see women are guilty of this too.

So, before you start bitching about men, just remember that the door swings both ways.



I know that women can be just as bad, some of my female friends gush about about just what you said, But I was never like that and hope never to be. Maybe I should have included women to, but you did that just fine.

20 and from my past experience with men alot tend to get worse. Some wised up but alot seem to get worse, like a former friend of mine who has 5 kids by 3 women.

Bitter and judgemental, all before 21. I'm beginning to think we could be related.

He cheated on all 3 women and left them for nothing.
Yeah, well, he is a prick. This doesn't make all men pricks.

You know, there are women who do things like this too. I have a friend whos father was disabled in workplace accident. My friend was young at the time. The mother packed up and left him and his brother with their father - and didn't pay any support. I wonder what it's like to sustain yourself and two children on a disability pension?

Does this make all women like this? No.

Judge individuals. Don't generalise.

What? How'd you get out here!? Bad optimist, bad! Now go back to your cage and play with the other optimists like the good little optimist you should be.

;)
Me waddles on back to my cage

Lol

Wow this is a cool cage! and it can only get better from here!

OMG look at this glass ... its half full! sweet!

Lol fair enough I just hope this turns into a discussion rather then people just angerly replying to the OP like normaly happens
I'd give it a 50% chance, there might be an actuall discussion coming out of this, but I'm willing to bet that sooner or later a Mod is going to have to put out the fires in here.

And how many men do you know who are kind and dedicated fathers who have never cheated?



Me? None. Even nmy own father cheated on my mother.

That is why I hate the human race in general. I have stated that before. It is clear that all but maye 2 or 3 people elevated themselves about flaming and added something to this.

What has anybody said that's more vicious than hating the human race in general?

How do you even fit that much hate in your heart?

I know that women can be just as bad, some of my female friends gush about about just what you said, But I was never like that and hope never to be. Maybe I should have included women to, but you did that just fine.

Well I just want you to keep in mind that this does happen on BOTH sides. :)

Excuse me ma'am, I respect your decision to be a lesbian, however, I sincerely think that you are making a wrong decision in generalizing all men into this stereotype. If you are too narrow minded to look at men in a positive light then I think that you need to look at your sexual stance again. Maybe you should just become asexual and not procreate. Also, I believe that this was just a post for attention because honestly, who would post something like that on this website.

P.S. If you would like to make a valid argument without sounding like a dumbass, it would be in your best interest to bulk up on your grammar and spelling.

P.P.S. If you feel offended by this, feel free to take it out on my nation, The Jingoistic States of Lupitopia

What has anybody said that's more vicious than hating the human race in general?

How do you even fit that much hate in your heart?



20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.

So much for the myth that only straight white men are capable of hate speech.

Never heard of the New Black Panther Party, have you?

Please, please, please don't EVER become straight.

Given that sexual orientation is probably around 90% genetics, that shouldn't be too difficult.

Please avoid men at all costs, and especially men capable of being sperm donors, not to mention any sperm donated by said men. That way you will never reproduce. Passing on the genes of someone with your attitude, not to mention your deviant lifestyle choice, would be a crime against humanity.

Every bit as much a crime against humanity as God's choice to give you a brain. Especially since you don't seem to be using it....

And by the way, if you want not to be judged on your looks by men, just open your mouth whenever a man comes within earshot. He will be so repulsed by your vindictiveness, spite and hatred that more than likely he won't even remember what you look like, only how evil you sound.

I'm not quite sure how to address this. Perhaps I should be throwing down a gauntlet and demanding that you show some steel?

I'll try to keep calm and somewhat understandable, But I can't promise that much.


I am a Lesbian if you didn't know, but some people have asked me why..Like I know it just happened. But still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or atleast be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! I assume somebody are confused as why, and some even think I flat out hate men, Hate is a strong word, disgusted is a better one. I can state why.


To be straight forward...You are pigs! I knew my sexual choice was women before this, but I still can't stand men all that much, more in recent months. The reason is simple, far too many of you view women as something to screw, a pair of tits and a nice ass, nothing more and nothing less! The majority of the men I have come in contact with show women respect and drool over them like a piece of meat or a fruit pie. It got so bad alot of them won't even get passed the body and when you complain about it they get mad at you! Should I have a high view of men when so many act like that?

All I ask is to be respected for who I am and not what I look like, but based on my personality and the content of my character, that is not to much to ask, but obviously some think it is; one guy even called me ignorant for wanting that and said its nature get over yourself and deal with it. Wait, let me get this straight, if I want to be judge based on who I am on the inside and not how I look on the outside, I am ignorant and need to get over myself? Pardon me while I punch a hole in my wall with my head! :headbang:

I know that as humans we should have gotten passed this stupidity, I understand that men are attracted to women and nobody should have a problem with that, but so many men view women as meat and don't respect them, and that is a problem nobody should be ok with! So pardon me if I think men should be taught to respect women and not view us as meat, its those same men who rape us and leave women alone with kids.


That is how I feel and nothing will change it.
You're right, and a lot of us are pigs. Even the best of us have this problem, but we're programmed to be this way. We don't choose to be this way, it's just that so few of us choose to act "good" and those that do have a lot of trouble because they are fighting their instincts. The fact that it's the social norm for men to act this way makes the problem even more difficult.

Let me further note that many men I know [Myself included] are at least trying to be less piggish, but it isn’t as easy as it sounds.

Let me further note that you can say whatever you want about this, but being a woman you don't have any experience as to what it’s like to live with this instinct. I’m not trying to seem sexist, but you shouldn’t expect people to be perfect when you haven’t lived with what your are complaining about.

Me? None. Even nmy own father cheated on my mother.
Try looking around then, I know quite a few.

Stone Bridges expresses what I feel better than I could.

And its right, the door does swing both ways. And its not like girls don't try to get into guys' pants ever. They can be just as manipulative as men. Their dress, the way they act in their dresses, some girls put on a real good show to and then get right down to business. The only thing is, the show isn't what they really are most of the time. I've had totally fake personas presented to me when I first met certain women, and then they totally changed as I got to knew them.

Anyhow, its seems that you've been hurt by these jerks. And you're angry about it. That's good. But now you have to face your problems, and not just always be angry about it. You can be what you want, but please think about the whole hating men thing.

Well I just want you to keep in mind that this does happen on BOTH sides. :)



I knew that fine. Atleast you didn't flame me as much as the other "people" did.

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.
Ah that explains a lot

I am sorry for your situation, life does blow sometimes

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.

Sounds terrible... however, no one has the power to corrupt your soul, not with force or beatings or insults.. Do you attend church, or have you considrered it?

I knew that fine. Atleast you didn't flame me as much as the other "people" did.

Like I said, I like Intelligent converstation.

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.Sounds like you had some bad luck...


Can I kiss it and make it better?

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.

If you've let somebody put that much hate in your heart, you were beaten in more ways than one. Lots of us grew up in places where screams preceded slaps, and slaps became worse, and you made excuses to your friends about that marks, and they pretended to believe you.

Not everybody who went through that hates the world in general.

Sounds like you had some bad luck...


Can I kiss it and make it better?

Not nice.

It pretty much boils down to the ladder theory.

What has anybody said that's more vicious than hating the human race in general?

How do you even fit that much hate in your heart?

Although I'm not the subject of this, I feel I must respond.

I both love and hate humanity.

Humanity is disgusting, perverted, ugly, and generally has yet to prove that God should have allowed it to survive for so long.

On the other hand, there are those who give me hope, that humanity can be transformed into a wondrous being, worthy of every bit of love and compassion that Men say God claims to reserve for it.

It's simply a question of which part of mankind's nature will win out in the end. I pray for the latter, but prepare for the former.

20 years of pure hell. And having a man beat you.

Ah, and now we find the real issue. You see, while you may not believe this (and that is quite irrelevant anyway) most men, despite being pigs and jerks, are highly protective. Regardless of who was doing the beating, I am relatively certain that you could have easily found someone to go vigilante and return the favor. I fit into this category quite nicely. When someone takes advantage of their size/age to hurt someone else, they are asking to meet a very violent end. I might just make a poll out of that.

After some consideration - yes, I think I will make a poll out of it.

It pretty much boils down to the ladder theory.

Ugh.

If you've let somebody put that much hate in your heart, you were beaten in more ways than one. Lots of us grew up in places where screamed preceded slaps, and slaps became worse, and you made excuses to your friends about that marks, and they pretended to believe you.

Not everybody who went through that hates the world in general.
I am lucky ... I only had to deal with molestation lol

So many things perpetrated on young kids sometimes

Not nice.Aww comeon... lighten up...


Life's too short to take everything so seriously...

They have such a poor sense of discernment they are incapable of choosing a man who would respect them or they pick on a man as a project to mould into their own version and blame the man for their own failure.
If women were half as competent as they thought they were it wouldn't be a man's world and they wouldn't be left holding the baby.
It's a pity that a woman's brain is geneticaly engineered not to kick in until they've had at least one child. As one who managed many women in a work environment I wouldn't employ women until their family had left home and then they beat men employees hands down.

Just like we're the answer to just about everything else, your answer here is gay men. We can still be pigs (and we can be worse than straight blokes sometimes), but we don't care what you female types look like. And since you're a lesbian, you can go to pride parades and protest marches together, and bitch about how crappy America and other countries are for denying us fags and dykes our marriage rights.

Honestly, though, men ARE pigs but a lot of us do our best to keep it under control.

Sounds terrible... however, no one has the power to corrupt your soul, not with force or beatings or insults.. Do you attend church, or have you considrered it?



All the churchs I know are very conservative and I am gay...You can see why I might avoid it. I went once and was told all fags are going to hell. I tried to keep an open mind but felt it better to just avoid it.

Aww comeon... lighten up...


Life's too short to take everything so seriously...

Under more trivial situations, i'd usually agree, but I believe it's common sense to draw the line when someone mentions something like that.

They have such a poor sense of discernment they are incapable of choosing a man who would respect them or they pick on a man as a project to mould into their own version and blame the man for their own failure.
If women were half as competent as they thought they were it wouldn't be a man's world and they wouldn't be left holding the baby.
It's a pity that a woman's brain is geneticaly engineered not to kick in until they've had at least one child. As one who managed many women in a work environment I wouldn't employ women until their family had left home and then they beat men employees hands down.Oh crap...


you stepped in it now...

Although I'm not the subject of this, I feel I must respond.

I both love and hate humanity.

Humanity is disgusting, perverted, ugly, and generally has yet to prove that God should have allowed it to survive for so long.

On the other hand, there are those who give me hope, that humanity can be transformed into a wondrous being, worthy of every bit of love and compassion that Men say God claims to reserve for it.

It's simply a question of which part of mankind's nature will win out in the end. I pray for the latter, but prepare for the former.

Broad generalizations. I respect your right to feel and say however and whatever you like; I find it melodramatic and uncompelling.

All the churchs I know are very conservative and I am gay...You can see why I might avoid it. I went once and was told all fags are going to hell. I tried to keep an open mind but felt it better to just avoid it.
Yeah ... I know how you feel
It was made worse that I am BI and was molested by my priest

I am not welcome anywhere and dont really care to attend even if I did

All the churchs I know are very conservative and I am gay...You can see why I might avoid it. I went once and was told all fags are going to hell. I tried to keep an open mind but felt it better to just avoid it.

Have you ever simply try talking to God in your own time, or whatever deity you believe in?

Remember, Jesus preached love and peace. It is a shame that people chose to corrupt his message for their own purpose.

Like I said, I like Intelligent converstation.




You seem to be in the minority here. I like intelligent conversation too, I just have a habit of getting hot headed sometimes. I used to be worse, atleast it didn't include swear words. :)

Under more trivial situations, i'd usually agree, but I believe it's common sense to draw the line when someone mentions something like that.It's been my experiance that everyone has some tragedy somewhere in their lives...


and I find that laughing at it rather than crying over it is a better way of dealing.



But that's just my opinion...

All the churchs I know are very conservative and I am gay...You can see why I might avoid it. I went once and was told all fags are going to hell. I tried to keep an open mind but felt it better to just avoid it.

Not all churches are such. I know of at least one Moravian church in Minnesota whose preacher is the spitting definition of a Christ-like Christian. More along the lines of the clergy who spearheaded the Civil Rights Movement and the complete opposite of the Religious Rights' love-whores.

There are also other churches that are not Christian that would probably be very tolerant, such as Buddhists.

They have such a poor sense of discernment they are incapable of choosing a man who would respect them or they pick on a man as a project to mould into their own version and blame the man for their own failure.
If women were half as competent as they thought they were it wouldn't be a man's world and they wouldn't be left holding the baby.
It's a pity that a woman's brain is geneticaly engineered not to kick in until they've had at least one child. As one who managed many women in a work environment I wouldn't employ women until their family had left home and then they beat men employees hands down.

You sound like you must have some kind of polyploidal condition, seeing as you also seem to have this condition of having your brain kick in only after you've become pregnant. And since you're evidently a man...

You seem to be in the minority here. I like intelligent conversation too, I just have a habit of getting hot headed sometimes. I used to be worse, atleast it didn't include swear words. :)

LOL, I know how that is. I used to be hot headed too, but thanfully I've learned how to control my temper through good thoughts and meditation.

Under more trivial situations, i'd usually agree, but I believe it's common sense to draw the line when someone mentions something like that.



That was direct at me and I wasn't insulted at all. Tacky yes, but I have heard worse.

All the churchs I know are very conservative and I am gay...You can see why I might avoid it. I went once and was told all fags are going to hell. I tried to keep an open mind but felt it better to just avoid it.
You just met the most annoying people in the congregation. They are quickly forgotten and pass on, if they are even regular Church goers. Most people of faith are very compassionate and understanding. Most don't care about your sexual orientation. I'd suggest giving it another try. People that say that don't have the smallest concept on Jesus and the like. They don't turely represent the faith.

And on homosexuals going to Hell, if God made them that way, why would he condemn them? Its religious BS instituted by man (as in humans).

Broad generalizations. I respect your right to feel and say however and whatever you like; I find it melodramatic and uncompelling.

Then would you care to explain why you're so optimistic about mankind?

It's been my experiance that everyone has some tragedy somewhere in their lives...

From personal experience, I think that isn't far from the mark.

and I find that laughing at it rather than crying over it is a better way of dealing.

No, I don't think so. Every person deals with things differently. If they choose to laugh at it, that's their way. But I don't think that gives anyone else the right to.

It's been my experiance that everyone has some tragedy somewhere in their lives...


and I find that laughing at it rather than crying over it is a better way of dealing.



But that's just my opinion...

How do you exactly laugh at abuse, or molestation?

It's been my experiance that everyone has some tragedy somewhere in their lives...


and I find that laughing at it rather than crying over it is a better way of dealing.



But that's just my opinion...

Agreed. For people that spend much of their time watching the world around them, the options are to laugh at everything, or to never stop crying.

LOL, I know how that is. I used to be hot headed too, but thanfully I've learned how to control my temper through good thoughts and meditation.




I could use that, right now I just try real hard. That doesn't always work.

You seem to be in the minority here. I like intelligent conversation too, I just have a habit of getting hot headed sometimes. I used to be worse, atleast it didn't include swear words. :)
*LOL* You'll fit right in here then.

That was direct at me and I wasn't insulted at all. Tacky yes, but I have heard worse.

Fine. But you might have been. I don't think it's something that should be joked about at all.


How do you exactly laugh at abuse, or molestation?

My point exactly.

Ugh.


You act as if my words delivered a swift punch to the abdomen. :)

How do you exactly laugh at abuse, or molestation?
I make priest jokes all the time

Even though it was three years of my life

Then would you care to explain why you're so optimistic about mankind?

EDIT: Your statement contains a poor assumption and false dichotomy.

Just because I find a widely cast disdain to be unreasonable doesn't mean I carry a global optimism.

Universalized declarative statements have to be carefully rendered to be meaningful, and anger usually doesn't help.

That was direct at me and I wasn't insulted at all. Tacky yes, but I have heard worse.See? She got it...

it was meant to be tacky but not insulting....

You just met the most annoying people in the congregation. They are quickly forgotten and pass on, if they are even regular Church goers. Most people of faith are very compassionate and understanding. Most don't care about your sexual orientation. I'd suggest giving it another try. People that say that don't have the smallest concept on Jesus and the like. They don't turely represent the faith.

And on homosexuals going to Hell, if God made them that way, why would he condemn them? Its religious BS instituted by man (as in humans).


Nah, some people in all walks of live are good. To me I would rather try wicca as it has always had a warm spot in my heart. (Yes I do have a warm spot)

I could use that, right now I just try real hard. That doesn't always work.
I understand

But do you understand how hurtfull it can be?

I mean I have taken all kinds of shit being BI but being bashed for just being male invokes much of the same defense mechanisms

Me? None. Even nmy own father cheated on my mother.

yeah, I think you should follow others' advice and go look. For example:

My father, grandfathers, and uncles have never cheated, to my knowledge, and much of the male married population probably hasn't either.

Really, generalizations based upon only a very limited amount of evidence are never good evidence for a point you are trying to make. Which, honestly, is what your entire first post was. A huge generalization based upon only your limited experiences.

So next time, perhaps try not to generalize as much about half the population of the planet.

Poor assumption and false dichotomy. Because I find a widely cast disdain to be unreasonable doesn't mean I carry a global optimism.

Universalized declarative statements have to be carefully rendered to be meaningful, and anger usually doesn't help.

Should I be giving you the "Question Avoidance Award"?

Fine. But you might have been. I don't think it's something that should be joked about at all.



My point exactly.




To be honest, I just don't care enough about what he said to be bothered by it. Some might see that as rude, but its just a fact.

You act as if my words delivered a swift punch to the abdomen. :)

No, i'm just sick of that ladder theory BS.

Nah, some people in all walks of live are good. To me I would rather try wicca as it has always had a warm spot in my heart. (Yes I do have a warm spot)
Well, wherever your road leads, may you find healing on it.

Oh, and don't listen to a few people on this forum about converting to Flying Spagetti Monsterism.

Should I be giving you the "Question Avoidance Award"?

No, you should try to understand that your question is flawed in its presuppositions.

Do you follow that its possible to object to generalized hatred without espousing generalized optimism?

You seem to be in the minority here. I like intelligent conversation too, I just have a habit of getting hot headed sometimes. I used to be worse, atleast it didn't include swear words. :)

Who doesn't get hot headed sometimes? (ok, a little (late) warning here for anybody who is confused about my seemingly contradictory posts on this thread)- my ideas of what statements contradict each other will vary from the ideas of any sane person. I promise, I'm not actually contradicting myself

To be honest, I just don't care enough about what he said to be bothered by it. Some might see that as rude, but its just a fact.

Fair enough.

yeah, I think you should follow others' advice and go look. For example:

My father, grandfathers, and uncles have never cheated, to my knowledge, and much of the male married population probably hasn't either.

Really, generalizations based upon only a very limited amount of evidence are never good evidence for a point you are trying to make. Which, honestly, is what your entire first post was. A huge generalization based upon only your limited experiences.

So next time, perhaps try not to generalize as much about half the population of the planet.


I can only go based on what my experience are, maybe you should be angry that anybody has those type of bad ones.

Nah, some people in all walks of live are good. To me I would rather try wicca as it has always had a warm spot in my heart. (Yes I do have a warm spot)Now you're talking! I know some wiccan's and you'd probably like them....


And I got a warm spot too... I'm too much of a gentleman to make her sleep in it...;)

No, i'm just sick of that ladder theory BS.

Ladder theory has been scientifically proven. It is an infallible doctrine. It obviously considers all the factors involved in relationships...

Who doesn't get hot headed sometimes? (ok, a little (late) warning here for anybody who is confused about my seemingly contradictory posts on this thread)- my ideas of what statements contradict each other will vary from the ideas of any sane person. I promise, I'm not actually contradicting myself



Everybody contradicts themselves at some point. I do it when I try not to, but that just because my beliefs bounce all over the place.

I can only go based on what my experience are, maybe you should be angry that anybody has those type of bad ones.
Do you really think that men are not angry when they hear about abuse and hurt?

Seriously, do you?

No, you should try to understand that your question is flawed in its presuppositions.

Do you follow that its possible to object to generalized hatred without espousing generalized optimism?

Yes.

Do you think it's possible to answer such a question with qualitifcations stating that, while you don't believe in x, you don't believe in y either, but instead believe in a. And, perhaps, why it is that you believe in a instead of x or y?

snipp It is an infallible doctrine. snip
Which is exactly why your first statement could not possibly be right
scientifically proven

I can only go based on what my experience are, maybe you should be angry that anybody has those type of bad ones.

Very well said. Sums up my personal bitterness and anger toward humanity quite well.

Do you really think that men are not angry when they hear about abuse and hurt?

Seriously, do you?




Sad as it may be, millions do not.

Yes.

Do you think it's possible to answer such a question with qualitifcations stating that, while you don't believe in x, you don't believe in y either, but instead believe in a. And, perhaps, why it is that you believe in a instead of x or y?

I don't believe there's a meaingful property "a" that applies universally to all genders or all people, so any such designation is of limited value.

So, if you understand the above premise, why did you assume that I had some worldwide "optimism"?

Which is exactly why your first statement could not possibly be right

My sarcasm is just not hitting the mark tonight.

Very well said. Sums up my personal bitterness and anger toward humanity quite well.



Was that a compliment? :eek:



You kind of came out of nowhere with that one, you scared me.

Ladder theory has been scientifically proven. It is an infallible doctrine. It obviously considers all the factors involved in relationships...

What a load of crap. Scientifically proven by whom? Which major psychological institutions have endorsed it as an "infallible doctrine"? Which psychology course contains a major in ladder theory?

What about a good friend of mine who got into a relationship with her boyfriend after being friends for two years?

"Oooh, that's an exception because they were already secretly high on eachothers ladder, see"

Heh. You can keep your cruddy theory.

My sarcasm is just not hitting the mark tonight.
Naw I got it afterwords
Sorry :) it is 2 am here lol I am tired

Yes.

Do you think it's possible to answer such a question with qualitifcations stating that, while you don't believe in x, you don't believe in y either, but instead believe in a. And, perhaps, why it is that you believe in a instead of x or y?



Could somebody explain to me wtf he just said? I would normally try myself but I am far to tired too. That and I have headache.

Sad as it may be, millions do not.
But there are hundreds of millions who would be. Has the the reation of the people in this forum to your annoucement proved that?

What a load of crap. Scientifically proven by whom? Which major psychological institutions have endorsed it as an "infallible doctrine"? Which psychology course contains a major in ladder theory?


I have to agree with Kanabia on this point. "The Ladder Theory" is one part pop-psychology, two parts marketing, and 7 parts dismissive of the complexity of interpersonal heuristics.

My sarcasm is just not hitting the mark tonight.

Oh, my bad. :D

Was this the first time you dropped this little bomb on a bunch of random strangers? Is this some kind of strange party trick? What was the point? I have read 7 pages of this thread and some people sound offended and others feel for you. Which reaction were you looking for? And why?

What a load of crap. Scientifically proven by whom? Which major psychological institutions have endorsed it as an "infallible doctrine"? Which psychology course contains a major in ladder theory?

What about a good friend of mine who got into a relationship with her boyfriend after being friends for two years?

"Oooh, that's an exception because they were already secretly high on eachothers ladder, see"

Heh. You can keep your cruddy theory.

National Geographic. "Now watch as the ferocious young male lion err human approaches his pray. He stalks and waits for the opportune time to strike......here he goes.... but wait! He is on the friends ladder!!! Failure for the male human this time folks."

I have to agree with Kanabia on this point. "The Ladder Theory" is one part pop-psychology, two parts marketing, and 7 parts dismissive of the complexity of interpersonal heuristics.

You forgot to put in "depressed virgins lamenting not being able to score" somewhere. :P

Was that a compliment? :eek:



You kind of came out of nowhere with that one, you scared me.

My work is done, I'm never completely satisfied with myself for the day unless I shock/scare someone ;-) Seriously, did you think I was kidding with the "we could be related" comment about your bitterness?

Could somebody explain to me wtf he just said? I would normally try myself but I am far to tired too. That and I have headache.

Although I'm sure New Rafnaland can speak very well for themselves, my understanding of their statement was that it is insufficient to refute a particular view without presenting an alternative.

My difficulty here is that I find general models of human behaviour (and thus global judgements of that behaviour) to have many caveats and few uses, so I eschew extreme statements related to them, whether love or hate.

I don't believe there's a meaingful property "a" that applies universally to all genders or all people, so any such designation is of limited value.

So, if you understand the above premise, why did you assume that I had some worldwide "optimism"?

Because you stated that you did not understand how a person could be universally cynical/pessimistic towards humanity. The assumption then, would be that you have the opposite opin. Especially given my interpretation of your wording of it. It seemed to me like Obi-Wan Kenobi saying something profound about the Sith, if you'll forgive it.

My work is done, I'm never completely satisfied with myself for the day unless I shock/scare someone ;-) Seriously, did you think I was kidding with the "we could be related" comment about your bitterness?



I didn't know how to take that comment. If you are as bitter as I am, well then the world is in for some dark days. ;)

-snip-
Certainly not me. The girl I'm currently having a thing with, when I first met her I thought she was going to be a bitch, so then I got to know her, and found out I actually kinda liked her. That was over a year ago, now I can't stop thinking about her. Which is hard, cause now we live in different towns. I hate college, I really do.

Although I'm sure New Rafnaland can speak very well for themselves, my understanding of their statement was that it is insufficient to refute a particular view without presenting an alternative.

My difficulty here is that I find general models of human behaviour (and thus global judgements of that behaviour) to have many caveats and few uses, so I eschew extreme statements related to them, whether love or hate.

In my statement, x could be taken to mean universal optimism and y universal pessimism. And a would be Saint Curie's interpretation of human nature which I was curious about.

Could somebody explain to me wtf he just said? I would normally try myself but I am far to tired too. That and I have headache.

ooh! I can do that.

He was pretty much saying that while he understands it is possible to be opposed to general negativity without being sickeningly optimistic, a clearer response would have been to state their actual position, rather than just striking at the negative. This would be accompanied by reasons for being neither optimistic about the world nor pessimistic about it. That help?

My difficulty here is that I find general models of human behaviour (and thus global judgements of that behaviour) to have many caveats and few uses, so I eschew extreme statements related to them, whether love or hate.
The only generality that I have ever oberved about humans, and one that fits no matter the person is that "Humans beings are highly illogical".

Seems to say it all right there. ;)

I didn't know how to take that comment. If you are as bitter as I am, well then the world is in for some dark days. ;)

Oh more, much much more...see, I'm bitter about stuff that doesn't even happen to me. I disagree that the world is in for dark days (well, it is, but not for that reason) because I am also thoroughly insane and maintain the viewpoint that I can do something about the sad state of affairs and actually help make the world a better place. And if you have a better definition of delusional or insane than that, I'd like to hear it.

Because you stated that you did not understand how a person could be universally cynical/pessimistic towards humanity. The assumption then, would be that you have the opposite opin. Especially given my interpretation of your wording of it. It seemed to me like Obi-Wan Kenobi saying something profound about the Sith, if you'll forgive it.

Your assumption defies the above stated premise that denying one does not embrace the other; I don't view globalized love and hate as Boolean.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. My question, previously stated as "How can you fit that much hate in your heart?" does not preclude habitual pessimism (which functions as a coping mechanism in some instances).

Rather, I think that for an individual to truly hate another individual (not "I hate mondays" or "I hate NSYNC", but the abiding, profound, encompassing hatred) it takes everything you've got. To hate the whole world would require one to divide their capacity for experience/expressing emotion so thinly about the populace that it would be rendered empty.

ooh! I can do that.

He was pretty much saying that while he understands it is possible to be opposed to general negativity without being sickeningly optimistic, a clearer response would have been to state their actual position, rather than just striking at the negative. This would be accompanied by reasons for being neither optimistic about the world nor pessimistic about it. That help?



Oddly enough yes it did.


I think my headache has turned into a hangover. Just stating for the record.

Oh more, much much more...see, I'm bitter about stuff that doesn't even happen to me. I disagree that the world is in for dark days (well, it is, but not for that reason) because I am also thoroughly insane and maintain the viewpoint that I can do something about the sad state of affairs and actually help make the world a better place. And if you have a better definition of delusional or insane than that, I'd like to hear it.



I am the same way. How can the world get better if nobody tries to make it better?

Oddly enough yes it did.


I think my headache has turned into a hangover. Just stating for the record.

I should totally be a teacher. Kids don't care that I'm crazy :cool:

I should totally be a teacher. Kids don't care that I'm crazy :cool:



No offense, but maybe yoy should stay away from children. ;)

The only generality that I have ever oberved about humans, and one that fits no matter the person is that "Humans beings are highly illogical".

Seems to say it all right there. ;)

Were I inclined to present some support for that idea, I would suggest that a consistent logical system would require a collectively agreeable set of values, operators, and axioms that were inviolate by the entirety of humanity.

That may take a while...

You know what really depresses me? There's a growing minority in younger (teens mostly) girls who are responding in kind by adopting those same shallow ideals for themselves.

Personally I hate that guys act like that (and I am a guy!), but it's even more annoying (for me) to see women adopting the traits they claim to hate in men.

That's not a personal attack against the writer of this thread, just my own observation. The shallow culture goes two ways.

I am the same way. How can the world get better if nobody tries to make it better?

Well, I suppose a nuclear war would wipe out the human race...and cause a very long winter, so the world would have time to recover from the past couple hundred years or so, and new life would evolve (if you believe in evolution) or God would say...well damn, guess that didn't go well, time to start over (if you're more of a creationist). In this situation, nobody tried to make things better, but from a certain perspective (and a very long view of time) things do get better.

Your assumption defies the above stated premise that denying one does not embrace the other; I don't view globalized love and hate as Boolean.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. My question, previously stated as "How can you fit that much hate in your heart?" does not preclude habitual pessimism (which functions as a coping mechanism in some instances).

Rather, I think that for an individual to truly hate another individual (not "I hate mondays" or "I hate NSYNC", but the abiding, profound, encompassing hatred) it takes everything you've got. To hate the whole world would require one to divide their capacity for experience/expressing emotion so thinly about the populace that it would be rendered empty.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was Boolean. It's just how my mind works. For instance, if a person says that the cat dish isn't full, it can be interpreted as meaning that the cat dish is empty, and vice versa.

I appologize for misinterpreting you.

I am the same way. How can the world get better if nobody tries to make it better?

Do you feel that more hate or less hate makes the world better?

No offense, but maybe yoy should stay away from children. ;)

Aw, but adults don't like much that I encourage thought and questioning things. Maybe I should though...I might be contageous and I'd hate to be responsible for so many people being miserable by actually observing the world around them.

Do you feel that more hate or less hate makes the world better?



Less hate. But unlike love hate is easy.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was Boolean. It's just how my mind works. For instance, if a person says that the cat dish isn't full, it can be interpreted as meaning that the cat dish is empty, and vice versa.

I appologize for misinterpreting you.

No, this is as much my fault. Its unfair to hold you to a rigorous standard of definitions that we haven't agreed on. Although I don't agree with your assumption, you make a good point that a nebulous position isn't useful either.

Aw, but adults don't like much that I encourage thought and questioning things. Maybe I should though...I might be contageous and I'd hate to be responsible for so many people being miserable by actually observing the world around them.



Have you ever thought of over throwing a small african nation? Just asking.

Less hate. But unlike love hate is easy.

I believe this to be a true statement.

Less hate. But unlike love hate is easy.

Not true, love is just as easy as hate. The difference is it's far more painful. (moderation through balancing of extremes)

No, this is as much my fault. Its unfair to hold you to a rigorous standard of definitions that we haven't agreed on. Although I don't agree with your assumption, you make a good point that a nebulous position isn't useful either.

Your humility is flattering and reflects well upon your character, especially given that I was unaware that I had made such a point: You give me credit where none is due.

Have you ever thought of over throwing a small african nation? Just asking.

Sweet! I've thought about starting my own island nation, but all the good ones are taken. I bet nobody would even notice either.

Sweet! I've thought about starting my own island nation, but all the good ones are taken. I bet nobody would even notice either.


You are nuts. :D

Not true, love is just as easy as hate. The difference is it's far more painful. (moderation through balancing of extremes)

Love, to be authentic, asks for diligence and sacrifice.

Hate comes freely, unbidden, carried in by Anger, asking no effort on our part, except perhaps a moments carelessness with the hearts of those in our life.

Sweet! I've thought about starting my own island nation, but all the good ones are taken. I bet nobody would even notice either.

That's good, though. It means you might actually die of old age before the ICC catches up to you. ;)

Your humility is flattering and reflects well upon your character, especially given that I was unaware that I had made such a point: You give me credit where none is due.

No, you stated it, mathematically, even.





"You're technically correct. The best kind of correct"

- Prof Hubert Farnsworth

Love, to be authentic, asks for diligence and sacrifice.

Hate comes freely, unbidden, carried in by Anger, asking no effort on our part, except perhaps a moments carelessness with the hearts of those in our life.


Yeah. You can hate anybody for any reason. I could hate you for having the name saint in your SN...I don't but just stating a point.

Yeah. You can hate anybody for any reason. I could hate you for having the name saint in your SN...I don't but just stating a point.

My name is taken from Madame Curie, a brilliant scientist who gave her life to further human understanding. She gets Sainthood in the Church of Me.

My name is taken from Madame Curie, a brilliant scientist who gave her life to further human understanding. She gets Sainthood in the Church of Me.



I know who she is, I was just saying anybody could use that as an excuse to hate you.

No, you stated it, mathematically, even.

Bah. Math is overglorified.

"You're technically correct. The best kind of correct"

- Prof Hubert Farnsworth

Nah. The best kind of correct is technical and feels correct. If it feels correct, you don't need to worry (too much) about people straying from it. And being technically correct just means that those feelings happen to be correct. :p

You are nuts. :D

How boring would I be if I was sane?

I know who she is, I was just saying anybody could use that as an excuse to hate you.

I was explaining the "Saint" part, and anybody who would hate me for bestowing an honorific on Madame Curie clearly needs no excuse.

Such a person would just have so much hate, they project it indiscriminately. That kind of hate says much about the hater, and little about me.

Bah. Math is overglorified.

Nah. The best kind of correct is technical and feels correct. If it feels correct, you don't need to worry (too much) about people straying from it. And being technically correct just means that those feelings happen to be correct. :p

If you limit yourself to the subset of knowledge that overlaps with intuitive knowledge, you may find it hindering.

Where I live, math is rarely even studied thoroughly, much less glorified. Leaving poor fools like me to play catchup with the rest of the world...

Love, to be authentic, asks for diligence and sacrifice.

Hate comes freely, unbidden, carried in by Anger, asking no effort on our part, except perhaps a moments carelessness with the hearts of those in our life.

We differ in opinion here. What you call hate, I call rage. Hate can be built on rage, but that is relatively unstable. In my opinion, hate can be just as deep and complex as love - but oversimplified, is thus: The dark, cold as death feeling that a thing should end and never be seen again.

If you limit yourself to the subset of knowledge that overlaps with intuitive knowledge, you may find it hindering.

My stances on politics are mostly dictated by what I found to be right, logically. The "feel" came later. For somethings it still isn't there....

Where I live, math is rarely even studied thoroughly, much less glorified. Leaving poor fools like me to play catchup with the rest of the world...

Well the only math I've studied is High School Algebra and a couple of college-level courses in statistics (which is appropriate, given that I took one in college).

We differ in opinion here. What you call hate, I call rage. Hate can be built on rage, but that is relatively unstable. In my opinion, hate can be just as deep and complex as love - but oversimplified, is thus: The dark, cold as death feeling that a thing should end and never be seen again.

Well, let us say we differ on semantics, but for purposes of this discussion, I find your definitions reasonable as clarified.

Well, let us say we differ on semantics, but for purposes of this discussion, I find your definitions reasonable as clarified.

I may be rare in this respect, but I have no problem having both hate as so defined, and love, as similarly but oppositely defined as coexisting forces on my life, and feel both quite easily.

That is how I feel and nothing will change it.
Hey, we're not all that bad...:(

My stances on politics are mostly dictated by what I found to be right, logically. The "feel" came later. For somethings it still isn't there....


Well, sometimes certain axioms are presented "a priori", especially in politics (as an outgrowth of applied philosophy). It may be unavoidable, really.

However, for discoverable issues of fact, or the internal consistency of a premise, sometimes the conclusions can be surprising, the opposite of what "felt" true.

What we feel is so vulnerable to so many things, even by the moment. Cognition can be such a fickle lens... magnifying, warping and twisting things. Of course, some argue that even formal logic must be filtered through it...

Well, sometimes certain axioms are presented "a priori", especially in politics (as an outgrowth of applied philosophy). It may be unavoidable, really.

However, for discoverable issues of fact, or the internal consistency of a premise, sometimes the conclusions can be surprising, the opposite of what "felt" true.

What we feel is so vulnerable to so many things, even by the moment. Cognition can be such a fickle lens... magnifying, warping and twisting things. Of course, some argue that even formal logic must be filtered through it...

I have often pondered such things....

I may be rare in this respect, but I have no problem having both hate as so defined, and love, as similarly but oppositely defined as coexisting forces on my life, and feel both quite easily.

I'm not sure which I'd be more wary of, easy love or easy hate.

I'm sure it varies by person. Hate has the lure of gratifying many of the baser urges. Love satisfies others, but to be practiced genuinely, I think it calls for more care in how one acts. Hate gives you the false but intense impetus to do whatever you want.

I'm not sure which I'd be more wary of, easy love or easy hate.

I'm sure it varies by person. Hate has the lure of gratifying many of the baser urges. Love satisfies others, but to be practiced genuinely, I think it calls for more care in how one acts. Hate gives you the false but intense impetus to do whatever you want.


So does Love

So does Love

In a general sense, such as love of a cause giving you free reign to act in its furtherance, or the euphoric feeling of love impeding judgement? Something different?

Depending on the person it could be any of those.

In a general sense, such as love of a cause giving you free reign to act in its furtherance, or the euphoric feeling of love impeding judgement? Something different?
What I meant was that love could cause you to act in ways that are not all together dissimilar to hate.

Depending on the person it could be any of those.

I think if you truly Love something, you will limit your actions to those that are fair, reasonable, and in mutual consideration of those involved. Ideally, even intense Love would warrant this discipline.


When you Hate (or Rage, if we're using that set of definitions), you might excuse yourself, deliberately, from adherence to reason or fairness. That unfetters you, in a way that Love doesn't.

*Sighs*

It's people like this that make me prejudiced against lesbians. I really hate prejudice of all kinds, and I don't like this element in myself, but I just can't help thinking that a lot of lesbians aren't gay because they are attracted to females, but because they have had bad experiences with a couple of guys and now are just ultra sexist and hateful. I know that it's not the case for all, and probably even most lesbians - my brothers best friend is a lesbian after all. It's just, when I hear someone is a lesbian, I generally tense up a little and try to avoid them. I suspect they might go off on some anti-male rant about how all the worlds genius's stole their work from women, how men are an inferiour gender and how males should be exterminated so the world can revert to it's natural state of lesbian hunter-gatherers. Of course, any male babies born in this world would be swiftly and bloodily sacrificed to the amazon goddesses.

It's so strange you don't get this irrational hatred of the other gender from gay males, and I don't have any problem whatsoever with them. I suppose it's because fewer males have being abused as a child be females, so their sexuality is purely about attraction to their own gender and not hatred of the opposite.

By the way, I really never understood the attraction of lesbians, they are a massive turn off for me if anything. I find myself being a lot more attracted to a woman if I know she is attracted to me too, so I could never be attracted to a lesbian. My mental image of a lesbian is Millie Tant from the Viz :

http://semiskimmed.net/pix/viz_millietant.gif

What I meant was that love could cause you to act in ways that are not all together dissimilar to hate.

I'll buy that.

What I meant was that love could cause you to act in ways that are not all together dissimilar to hate.

Precisely. I tend to not act on hatred however, as there is more than enough of that going around. It is all a matter of balance, and if you put a 2 ton weight on either end of a beam, it's going to be just as balanced (though probably less stable) as having a 1 pound weight on either end. Besides, people do far worse things out of "love" than I could ever bring myself to do out of hate.

I think if you truly Love something, you will limit your actions to those that are fair, reasonable, and in mutual consideration of those involved. Ideally, even intense Love would warrant this discipline.


When you Hate (or Rage, if we're using that set of definitions), you might excuse yourself, deliberately, from adherence to reason or fairness. That unfetters you, in a way that Love doesn't.
I disagree. Maybe I have seen to many films but it seems just as likely that an intense love of something/one can be just a destructive a force as rage or anger. An intense love (or perhaps your interpretation of said love) can cause people to disregard all other worldly concerns.

Precisely. I tend to not act on hatred however, as there is more than enough of that going around.

Some views on neuroplasticity suggest that the continuous experience of certain thoughts or emotional states can result in changes in the brain that could result in behaviour influenced by those states. I have no idea if its true.

That said, I think moderate hateful thoughts, not actualized, are probably normal and occasionally inevitable.

Some views on neuroplasticity suggest that the continuous experience of certain thoughts or emotional states can result in changes in the brain that could result in behaviour influenced by those states. I have no idea if its true.

That said, I think moderate hateful thoughts, not actualized, are probably normal and occasionally inevitable.

I would be the last to call my hateful thoughts "moderate" but they do tend (without any effort on my part) to balance almost perfectly with however much love is in my life at any given time.

Edit - completely aside, but in defense of that theory, for a long time suicidal thoughts were completely normal for me, they were my default comfort zone that I would fall into whenever there was any kind of trouble. Years of therapy were required to put that down(mostly).

I disagree. Maybe I have seen to many films but it seems just as likely that an intense love of something/one can be just a destructive a force as rage or anger. An intense love (or perhaps your interpretation of said love) can cause people to disregard all other worldly concerns.

I don't think those situations are limited to cinema; I'm sure an examination of personal lives, historical and private, might reveal times when "Love" or its impostors have spurred terrible actions.

I would propose that those cases may be Hate masquerading as Love, like when the abusive parent beats the child "to make 'em strong, 'cause I love 'em". It would be difficult to prove, though.

I didn't bother to read the entire thread as it is ridiculously long and probably doesn't say much more than the first and last pages do. An attack, 'I hate men', and defense or the attack is brushed off the shoulder with a joke, or some sympathy. So here's mine.

I would never trust a man so I understand your preference for women. However, many women have sexual drives as strong or stronger than men, yet they are programmed by society to either suppress these feelings or express them in more subtle ways. I am currently in a casual sexual relationship but it is difficult for me because I want a more committed relationship as I feel they are more rewarding emotionally and sexually. Not that I can complain about the no-strings sex. But in getting to know her before we were sleeping together, she is an inspiration. I admire her dreams and ambitions. I learn from her every time I'm with her. She is free and loving it, so I have to respect that if I'm to remain in her life for this brief moment. I've learned that everyone is different, and you have to take them as they come. That doesn't mean be ignorant of your past, but if you want to be more human, try being more forgiving. Without that relief from pain, you'll always be emotionally stunted, and it will cause you to miss out on a lot of good people and experiences. Of course, like everything in your life, it is your choice, so the way you feel is your fault, your responsibility. There is no good reason to be happy in a world full of suffering, you just have to choose it.

I would be the last to call my hateful thoughts "moderate" but they do tend (without any effort on my part) to balance almost perfectly with however much love is in my life at any given time.

If they are manageable to the point where they are not acted on, they would seem to be adequately "moderate".

I don't think those situations are limited to cinema; I'm sure an examination of personal lives, historical and private, might reveal times when "Love" or its impostors have spurred terrible actions.

I would propose that those cases may be Hate masquerading as Love, like when the abusive parent beats the child "to make 'em strong, 'cause I love 'em". It would be difficult to prove, though.
Particularly difficult with such an undefined term. Not that everthing we know isnt arbirtary anyway.

If they are manageable to the point where they are not acted on, they would seem to be adequately "moderate".

That's actually where the balance comes in. Any harm that I would wish to visit on someone has been countered (quite unfortunately in my opinion) by the knowledge that doing so would hurt someone I cared about. I suppose that tenous balance could be called moderate, as the resultant behavior is, and the only accurate way to judge someone is based on their behavior.

Particularly difficult with such an undefined term. Not that everthing we know isnt arbirtary anyway.

A friend recommended a book to me, I'm trying to get around to it. Lakoff and Nunez, "Where Mathematics Comes From", wherein the authors present the idea that since any system, mathematical or otherwise, is ultimately held and evaluated by the subjective human mind, there is no system that is free of the blurred human perspective.

A friend recommended a book to me, I'm trying to get around to it. Lakoff and Nunez, "Where Mathematics Comes From", wherein the authors present the idea that since any system, mathematical or otherwise, is ultimately held and evaluated by the subjective human mind, there is no system that is free of the blurred human perspective.
Sorry it getting late here. Does that mean, we cannot know anything without having put our own slant on it?

That's actually where the balance comes in. Any harm that I would wish to visit on someone has been countered (quite unfortunately in my opinion) by the knowledge that doing so would hurt someone I cared about. I suppose that tenous balance could be called moderate, as the resultant behavior is, and the only accurate way to judge someone is based on their behavior.

"Quite unfortunately"? You want the opportunity to visit harm on somebody?

What's your view on the premise that when we harm others, we ultimately harm ourselves? (I'm not sold on it, since its easy to imagine conditions under which harming others might be seen as necessary).

Sorry it getting late here. Does that mean, we cannot know anything without having put our own slant on it?

Yes, well put it, I believe thats it.

"Quite unfortunately"? You want the opportunity to visit harm on somebody?

What's your view on the premise that when we harm others, we ultimately harm ourselves? (I'm not sold on it, since its easy to imagine conditions under which harming others might be seen as necessary).
A consequentialist would say doing any harm is doing us all harm.
Well... they might say that.

A consequentialist would say doing any harm is doing us all harm.
Well... they might say that.

May we say that to not take action that would've prevented harm is the same as doing harm? (For example, something is falling, and its within my ability to pull them back up, but I don't, so am I guilty of something?)

If so, does failing to inflict a lesser harm to prevent a greater one constitute having commited a harm oneself?

May we say that to not take action that would've prevented harm is the same as doing harm? (For example, something is falling, and its within my ability to pull them back up, but I don't, so am I guilty of something?)

If so, does failing to inflict a lesser harm to prevent a greater one constitute having commited a harm oneself?
I think I would have to cowardly resort to the intent. If you do not act because you wish harm onto someone then yes you are guilty. But if you do not act because of your own legitimate fear or handicap then no you are not guilty. I feel as though have backed me into a logical trap I cannot see.

May we say that to not take action that would've prevented harm is the same as doing harm? (For example, something is falling, and its within my ability to pull them back up, but I don't, so am I guilty of something?)

If so, does failing to inflict a lesser harm to prevent a greater one constitute having commited a harm oneself?
As to the second question Consequentialism is naerly defined by its math based approach. If one is a lesser harm then the other and no other choice is appearent you must do the lesser harm so the greater good is served.

Love, to be authentic, asks for diligence and sacrifice.

Hate comes freely, unbidden, carried in by Anger, asking no effort on our part, except perhaps a moments carelessness with the hearts of those in our life.
I disagree, hate is active. It takes energy and thought to actually hate. When you really hate something, you have to go out of your way to want to destroy it, or avoid it. But it isn't easier.

I think you're confusing hate with indifference or apathy.

I think I would have to cowardly resort to the intent. If you do not act because you wish harm onto someone then yes you are guilty. But if you do not act because of your own legitimate fear or handicap then no you are not guilty. I feel as though have backed me into a logical trap I cannot see.

I don't think its cowardly to examine intent. One might say that there can be no guilt without some formation of intent.

Its not so much a trap, but rather tests the rules of "Harm to any is harm to all". Even under such a dictum, might there be conditions under which deliberate harm prevents another, worse harm?

Of course, how do we quantify and ordinally compare "harm"? I'm sure there are many ways to go down this road.

What was the original topic, she's really pissed at men? I think she's angry and/or hurt, and may just be venting.

I don't think its cowardly to examine intent. One might say that there can be no guilt without some formation of intent.

Its not so much a trap, but rather tests the rules of "Harm to any is harm to all". Even under such a dictum, might there be conditions under which deliberate harm prevents another, worse harm?

Of course, how do we quantify and ordinally compare "harm"? I'm sure there are many ways to go down this road.

What was the original topic, she's really pissed at men? I think she's angry and/or hurt, and may just be venting.
Well that was my original question. What was the point of this thread? Why vent to us? But why should I ask? Why did I read it?

people are stupid, ugly animals.

You have discovered the entire sentance to describe humanities incompitence and idiocity. Therfor, you are not one of those animals.

After reading through most of this topic, I am slightly amused and also slightly disgusted. (i am female myself, so I agree with most of what the first post said)
But, however, being a tomboy I find it difficult to build a relationship with men in general. Even when they seem like very nice people, they suddenly turn into arrogant jerks who want nothing more than to screw you.
I haven't been screwed, but psychologically I feel that all of society has been.
If a man makes me feel bad, I just smack them really hard. That normally shuts them up especially on the topic of women being weaker and very inferior to men, it also keeps many of the jerks away from you.
If you want jerks to leave you alone, just show your status and make them know you are not weaker than they are and can actually inflict pain onto them...not always physicaly, but mentaly. (I find the psychological method works best)

I have, however, met some men who are very nice and don't get worse....but from MY experience from the men I have met, about 70% of the men I have met are arrogant jerks.
20% of men I have met are actually nice and have made me feel like I have been respected as a person and not some bag of trash, and the remaining 10% I have met where nice but turned bad.

This doesn't apply to ALL men in the world, these are just from the majority of people I have met in my neighbourhood and town.
Like Johnny The Homicidal maniac said about a pervert: "This guy is just an animal disguised to look like something intelligent, the real humans are harder to find"

I disagree, hate is active. It takes energy and thought to actually hate. When you really hate something, you have to go out of your way to want to destroy it, or avoid it. But it isn't easier.

I think you're confusing hate with indifference or apathy.

Could be.

Although, I see it as easier to destroy/avoid what you hate, and more difficult to excercise selfless devotion to the things you love.

Maybe I'm just too unambitious in my expression of hate. I feel when I hate something, I don't owe it anything, so I can do whatever. Maybe that's a kind of indifference.

When I love, I owe much, and must behave with careful thought.

Could be.

Although, I see it as easier to destroy/avoid what you hate, and more difficult to excercise selfless devotion to the things you love.
Is it though? Look at the efforts used to destroy the Jews by Nazi Germany (Yes, I know I'm skirting Godwin's Law, but please bear with me). That was a lot of energy and throught to bring that hatred to fruitation.

Like I said, there's a difference between dislike, or apathy, and hate. Hate, as you said, builds rage, which is a very powerful emoution and one that feeds on itself till it either burns out, or destroys itself. When you hate something, you want it gone, removed from your world. If that isn't possible, you want it to suffer and you do the best you can to bring that about.

Hate, as it's been said, is love with its back turned, the oposet of what being in love means and what you want to do.

Maybe I'm just too unambitious in my expression of hate. I feel when I hate something, I don't owe it anything, so I can do whatever. Maybe that's a kind of indifference.
Perhaps, then, you have never truely hated something or someone. Which is a good thing of course. Of course as there are shades of love, I'd say there are also shades of hate as well.

Is it though? Look at the efforts used to destroy the Jews by Nazi Germany (Yes, I know I'm skirting Godwin's Law, but please bear with me). That was a lot of energy and throught to bring that hatred to fruitation.


I think you're clear of any Godwin risk; I'm not certain, but I think you have to compare my position to the Nazi doctrine or compare me to Hitler before its a Godwin.

That said, I think what we saw there may have been greed, desperation, and a lack of empathy, pushed by the hate of a few. I guess the really overachieving haters can make a job of it, but in day to day life, I doubt most people hate with that kind of vigor. I must just be a lazy hater.

Speaking of lazy, I'm gonna hit the sack. I do hate getting up early...

That is how I feel and nothing will change it.

It's very difficult for me to feel any respect for someone who makes such sweeping generalisations as you do.

I'm a man, and I happen to feel rather disgusted at men who can't see past appearances and don't give a damn about a woman's personality and intelligence.

Maybe your generalisations comfort you in simplistic anger, but they hardly reflect the whole truth.

"You're technically correct. The best kind of correct"

- Prof Hubert Farnsworth

As the Futurama-fan I am I have to correct you. It is not Prof Hubert that say this, but the nr 1.0 of the Central Bureaucracy in the episod "How Hermes Requisitioned His Groove Back".

If a man makes me feel bad, I just smack them really hard. That normally shuts them up especially on the topic of women being weaker and very inferior to men, it also keeps many of the jerks away from you.


Just out of curiousity, how do you expect men to react to this, and how have they in the past? Also, does this mean you agree with men who beat their wives when they are being made to feel bad by them?

Hey, we're not all that bad...:(


How many times have I said I know that? How many time more do I have to?

How many times have I said I know that? How many time more do I have to?

Untill you edit the first post so it doesnt sound so trollish and sexist?

How many times have I said I know that? How many time more do I have to? until you edit your first post, be prepared to keep repeating that. ;)

(not everyone likes to read long threads.)

that post does make it seem that you are painting all men with the same brush and color.

I am sorry to hear about all your negative experiences with men through.

until you edit your first post, be prepared to keep repeating that. ;)

(not everyone likes to read long threads.)

that post does make it seem that you are painting all men with the same brush and color.

I am sorry to hear about all your negative experiences with men through.



I did edit my first post. I fixed some of the grammer and spelling. I also added something at the end. I'll edit it again if need be.

[snip]
I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.while I do like this over the other last line you had. You also need to realize that some women also go out of their way to encourage that kind of thought, yet you place the blame on men.

if you have a banquet table infront of a person, would you blame him for eating?

some women are D!@kteasers, some women are skanks and whores because they like the sex. not all women are Pure and innocent, at the same time, not all men are sex starved pigs.

just my $.02

at the same time, not all men are sex starved pigs.

We can also be sex-starved without being pigs. Just so that's clear

As the Futurama-fan I am I have to correct you. It is not Prof Hubert that say this, but the nr 1.0 of the Central Bureaucracy in the episod "How Hermes Requisitioned His Groove Back".
i was about to say that :p


though in response to the OP, as has already said many, many times i'm sure: not all men are like that. far from it.
there is a level of 'animal' physical attraction that all men feel for women (maybe not gay men...ah you know what i mean) to one degree or another - this could be misconstrued as thinking women are 'meat' or, as is more commonly phrased, 'objects'. but appearance is all you have to go on when you first meet someone, or see someone walking down the street. there's a big difference between leering at a woman in a short skirt and actually acting in a derogatory way towards women in that they become 'objects'. the former is natural and cannot be helped - it's attraction, pure and simple, in a way seeing some women as 'objects of desire', maybe - but the latter is what seperates most men from the assholes the OP has seemingly had most interactions with. either that, or the OP is just really sensitive to the former...

while I do like this over the other last line you had. You also need to realize that some women also go out of their way to encourage that kind of thought, yet you place the blame on men.

if you have a banquet table infront of a person, would you blame him for eating?

some women are D!@kteasers, some women are skanks and whores because they like the sex. not all women are Pure and innocent, at the same time, not all men are sex starved pigs.

just my $.02


In all fairness, I am not talking about women. Some women are sluts, I resent them. But i never had anything to do with them.

i was about to say that :p


though in response to the OP, as has already said many, many times i'm sure: not all men are like that. far from it.
there is a level of 'animal' physical attraction that all men feel for women (maybe not gay men...ah you know what i mean) to one degree or another - this could be misconstrued as thinking women are 'meat' or, as is more commonly phrased, 'objects'. but appearance is all you have to go on when you first meet someone, or see someone walking down the street. there's a big difference between leering at a woman in a short skirt and actually acting in a derogatory way towards women in that they become 'objects'. the former is natural and cannot be helped - it's attraction, pure and simple, in a way seeing some women as 'objects of desire', maybe - but the latter is what seperates most men from the assholes the OP has seemingly had most interactions with. either that, or the OP is just really sensitive to the former...


I already stated in the first post being attracted to women is fine, but seeing us as sex objects and there for you to screw is not. You want to find me attractive, fine; just don't think I am here to please you.

I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this, but enough to justify resentment. So instead of snapping at me, try going after the men who make you look bad.

Well thats still pretty damn useless. "enough to justify resentment"? Fuck you, I dont blame all women just because a few of them are bitches, in fact the majority of them are great you just dont let the minority spoil it for you. And since when am I responsible for all men? I shouldnt have to go after anyone just because a few people who act like assholes happen to be the same gender as me.

Why dont you just get run away for a bit, get a new nation and then come back and annoy us again in a few weeks.

I already stated in the first post being attracted to women is fine, but seeing us as sex objects and there for you to screw is not. You want to find me attractive, fine; just don't think I am here to please you.

Well, that's the basic initial response to an attractive person.

Oh great. Another "hate men because they're human" thread. I'd like to see you produce 10 times as much testosterone and not be sex crazed.:rolleyes:

Oh great. Another "hate men because they're human" thread. I'd like to see you produce 10 times as much testosterone and not be sex crazed.:rolleyes:

Y'know, I think I'd rather she did become sex crazed.

Y'know, I think I'd rather she did become sex crazed.

Why's that?

Well, that's the basic initial response to an attractive person.




Not by everybody, Believe it or not that is the 3rd or 4th thing to come to my mind. I'd be lying if I said it never did.

Y'know, I think I'd rather she did become sex crazed.



Never gonna happen again. I am past that phase of my life. I'm happier now. Horny but happy.;)

Oh great. Another "hate men because they're human" thread. I'd like to see you produce 10 times as much testosterone and not be sex crazed.:rolleyes:

Is that true about the 10x testosterone thing? I did once seen a bit on tv about how a women's testosterone level rises up to about the same as man's (when sober) when she has had about 14 units of alcohol (about 7 pints) as alcohol tends to increase testosterone levels but I didnt know how true it was.

Never gonna happen again. I am past that phase of my life. I'm happier now. Horny but happy.;)


Aww:(

Well, that's the basic initial response to an attractive person.
i think its the difference between wanting to screw and actually going out of your way just to get inside her pants and not caring about the actual person.
then there's the issue of derogatory comments which falls somewhere in-between. i rarely make comments like "look at that fine piece of ass" etc... you know the sort. i wouldn't like someone to think of me as just a 'piece of ass', so i don't say it (or generally think it) about women. can still be attracted to them though :P

and Kishijoten, i suppose i was just clarifying or expanding on your point.

Never gonna happen again. I am past that phase of my life. I'm happier now. Horny but happy.;)

Can I just clarify this? You're a lesbian? And you chose to be a lesbian because men are pigs?

i think its the difference between wanting to screw and actually going out of your way just to get inside her pants and not caring about the actual person.
then there's the issue of derogatory comments which falls somewhere in-between. i rarely make comments like "look at that fine piece of ass" etc... you know the sort. i wouldn't like someone to think of me as just a 'piece of ass', so i don't say it (or generally think it) about women. can still be attracted to them though :P

and Kishijoten, i suppose i was just clarifying or expanding on your point.


Wow. I think you got it! :)

And since when am I responsible for all men? I shouldnt have to go after anyone just because a few people who act like assholes happen to be the same gender as me.


My thoughts exactly. I resent being pre-judged on the basis of my gender, or being told I'm somehow responsible for the disgusting, numbskull behaviour of people I've never met and wouldn't want to know if I ever did meet them.

Kishijoten, you're not doing yourself any favours by speaking in such black-and-white terms.

Is that true about the 10x testosterone thing? I did once seen a bit on tv about how a women's testosterone level rises up to about the same as man's (when sober) when she has had about 14 units of alcohol (about 7 pints) as alcohol tends to increase testosterone levels but I didnt know how true it was.

I looked up the actual figure (10x) up on a website. I'd find it again for you but it was far too difficult to find the first time and I can't be bothered doing it again.

Wow. I think you got it! :)
hooray!! :fluffle: :p


now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to get some porn! ;)
j/k... but that is a whole other issue...

i think its the difference between wanting to screw and actually going out of your way just to get inside her pants and not caring about the actual person.
then there's the issue of derogatory comments which falls somewhere in-between. i rarely make comments like "look at that fine piece of ass" etc... you know the sort. i wouldn't like someone to think of me as just a 'piece of ass', so i don't say it (or generally think it) about women. can still be attracted to them though :P

That makes sense. Maybe I'm just a pig after all ;)

To clarify: I don't make comments like that to people's faces (except my girlfriend, and only when it's just us, but that's a different point entirely). Nor do I (or did I, before I had a gf) attempt to get laid without thinking about the other person.

hooray!! :fluffle: :p


now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to get some porn! ;)
j/k... but that is a whole other issue...


You were doing so well until that porn comment. ;)

Wow. I think you got it! :)

I think most of us had got that, you know. ;) I agree fully with what PM has said, and I fall in the same category as he does.

So far, you've been essentially preaching to the choir in this thread.

You confuse some jerks out there with all men. It would be the same as, after having some bad relationship experiances, I stated that all women are bitches. They are not, nor are all men pigs.

I'm sorry you've run into the jerks and a$$holes of the world, but is it right to condem half of humanity for the actions of a few?



you cant get mad @ all men because the ones you've met were jerks that's not right because i know i am a nice guy so dont label me:mad: :mad:

You were doing so well until that porn comment. ;)
haha that was the point of the comment... i can't seem totally conscientious now can i? :p

I would like to add on this a simple fact. I know not all men are like this.
your only redeeming comment, ill forgive you for the rest of the offencive crap.
Sorry to hear you've had a bad run, there are alot of jerks out there but you're not the only one who dislikes them alot of us guys dislike them too. Grouping us all together isnt really fair, ive had a girlfriend cheat on me for a year but I dont hate women for it just her. Lay the blame where it belongs and you may find yourself becoming much happier.
goodluck
*hugs*

We can also be sex-starved without being pigs. Just so that's clear
Yep, I, for one, am a sex-starved Gentelman. :D

you cant get mad @ all men because the ones you've met were jerks that's not right because i know i am a nice guy so dont label me:mad: :mad:

*shudders*

You're new, so here's a word of friendly advice. I appreciate what you're trying to say, but if you want to be taken seriously, you may want to

a) use capitalisation where required

b) use commas

c) use (but not misuse) apostrophes; these three points can be summed up as: make use of correct punctuation, and structure your sentences properly

d) go easy on the annoying smilies.

This is a forum thread, not an AIM chat window, and incorrect use of the English language weakens your point by making the form look childish.

your only redeeming comment, ill forgive you for the rest of the offencive crap.
Sorry to hear you've had a bad run, there are alot of jerks out there but you're not the only one who dislikes them alot of us guys dislike them too. Grouping us all together isnt really fair, ive had a girlfriend cheat on me for a year but I dont hate women for it just her. Lay the blame where it belongs and you may find yourself becoming much happier.
goodluck
*hugs*
agreed - people are different in so many ways... generalisations generally don't work (;))

In all fairness, I am not talking about women. Some women are sluts, I resent them. But i never had anything to do with them. understood, but just trying to point out that there are all kinds on both sides of the fence... so to speak.

Someones probably made this point already, but what would happen if someone put up a thread about how much they hate women. It would probably be deleted straight away. Anyway, I could be wrong about this, but answer me this : if you hate the personalites of all these men, why were you with them in the first place? Could it be because you liked how they looked?! That's what your accusing men of, but women do it the whole time too.
I don't mean any offence, Im just sick of hearing this antimen rubbish everywhere.

-snip-

So what about gay men?

a) use capitalisation where required

boo!1!! :mad: :gundge: :mp5:


:D

True that some men are dogs, but it's been my experience that there are just as many dredful women out there. Maybe its a human nature thing and not a gender problem. For so long, men have been stereotyped as "dogs", and after a few decades of that, it's just assumed that most men are like that. It really isnt fair to the great guys who are out there who show respect for everyone-not just women. I'm sorry youve had such a bad experience with men. I hope you wont let a few bad apples spoil the whole barrel. :)

Someones probably made this point already, but what would happen if someone put up a thread about how much they hate women. It would probably be deleted straight away.

Yeah...personally I find this kinda funny the way that so many men jumped to her defence, when not a single person would have defended a gay man who went on a massive rant about how males are the Master Gender. Pretty much disproves her point about men being asses more than women, although that would never happen, as gay males don't just become gay because they hate women.

If you hate males so much, then good for you - either suppress your bigotry and deal with the fact half of all people DARE to be born with a different set of sexual organs, or go and form a male-free society where you can burn effiges (sp?) of penises and rant about how inferiour males are all you like. Don't stay here and try and convince us all of how evil we are.

agreed - people are different in so many ways... generalisations generally don't work (;))
All generalisations are worthless - except this one

Yeah...personally I find this kinda funny the way that so many men jumped to her defence, when not a single person would have defended a gay man who went on a massive rant about how males are the Master Gender. Pretty much disproves her point about men being asses more than women, although that would never happen, as gay males don't just become gay because they hate women.

If you hate males so much, then good for you - either suppress your bigotry and deal with the fact half of all people DARE to be born with a different set of sexual organs, or go and form a male-free society where you can burn effiges (sp?) of penises and rant about how inferiour males are all you like. Don't stay here and try and convince us all of how evil we are.

Valerie Solanas(is?). Society for Cutting Up Men. I do believe she should resurrect VS with magic, and they could team up and cut a bloody path across the world.

Valerie Solanas(is?). Society for Cutting Up Men. I do believe she should resurrect VS with magic, and they could team up and cut a bloody path across the world.

I've heard of her and read her manifesto - I had to study ultra-radical-feminism (Basically man-hating lesbianism) for my sociology A level. She's always good for a laugh, and really not an evil person. After all, after her new male-free order is recognised "pervert fags" will be allowed to live their lives, as second class citizens obviously, but since all male babies will aborted then it will be only for the first generation - such compassion!

Can't edit, so gotta double post:

Standpoint feminism is another funny one. That's the theory that only a female can give a truely objective view on the world because they're the only ones to have "suffered the life of a female" :D

Kishijoten.
I believe some of what you have been experiencing may be as a result of sterotypes held by a certain type of mindsets.

Still some ask me if I would ever go back to men or at least be BI, and I always answer no way in hell! .

Alot of people ,mostly men, cannot seem to get their heads around the idea of lesbianisim.They assume its something that a woman chose after some bad experience with some man.Prehaps in their minds a lesbian can be 'fixed'.This presents a challange to some men who see it as their 'mission' to 'fix' the Lesbian.Sad I know.I can really see where you are coming from though.

I've heard of her and read her manifesto - I had to study ultra-radical-feminism (Basically man-hating lesbianism) for my sociology A level. She's always good for a laugh, and really not an evil person. After all, after her new male-free order is recognised "pervert fags" will be allowed to live their lives, as second class citizens obviously, but since all male babies will aborted then it will be only for the first generation - such compassion!
i find that form of ultra-feminism to be offensive. actually i find a lot of feminism offensive when it goes beyond seeking sexual equality, willingly or not: it becomes sexism-in-reverse. i don't know the specifics about that particular person or her ideas, but if you put it on its head and were to say women were useless and there should be a new women-free order, that would be shot down in flames with cries of sexism within a heartbeat.
i often find it amusing that there is no counter 'masculinist' movement in this way (or none that has any credence)


you can't have one group be sexist (or racist) "because everyone else is" or because "thats how the world is"... that just perpetuates the problem and polarises the issue to the realms or the unsolvable


maybe that lady gives reasons why her ideas aren't sexist, but effectively killing off half the population of the planet, if i have understood correctly, is genocide and belongs in the realms of utter nonsense. i do hope nobody takes her seriously.

hm this is almost worthy of a new thread if i knew what i was talking about...

Kishijoten.
I believe some of what you have been experiencing may be as a result of sterotypes held by a certain type of mindsets.
Alot of people ,mostly men, cannot seem to get their heads around the idea of lesbianisim.They assume its something that a woman chose after some bad experience with some man.Prehaps in their minds a lesbian can be 'fixed'.This presents a challange to some men who see it as their 'mission' to 'fix' the Lesbian.Sad I know.I can really see where you are coming from though.
I believe the same thing happens with gay men, alot of people try to "fix" them

i often find it amusing that there is no counter 'masculinist' movement in this way (or none that has any credence)



This is sadly too true.Even men who are not granted fair access to their kids cannot seem to get the issue taken too seriously.But the minute any kinda organisation is mentioned it either gets hijacked by some ultra left wing nut-job with another motive or stamped on by the ultra right who want the women looking after the kids.

i find that form of ultra-feminism to be offensive. actually i find a lot of feminism offensive when it goes beyond seeking sexual equality, willingly or not: it becomes sexism-in-reverse. i don't know the specifics about that particular person or her ideas, but if you put it on its head and were to say women were useless and there should be a new women-free order, that would be shot down in flames with cries of sexism within a heartbeat.
i often find it amusing that there is no counter 'masculinist' movement in this way (or none that has any credence)


you can't have one group be sexist (or racist) "because everyone else is" or because "thats how the world is"... that just perpetuates the problem and polarises the issue to the realms or the unsolvable


maybe that lady gives reasons why her ideas aren't sexist, but effectively killing off half the population of the planet, if i have understood correctly, is genocide and belongs in the realms of utter nonsense. i do hope nobody takes her seriously.

hm this is almost worthy of a new thread if i knew what i was talking about...


Luckily, she never really raised much support. In fact, she was sent to prison for following her own ideology and attempting to murder her own husband (Forget if she was successful or not). Her "society" was mainly filled with complete mental cases like herself.

Although, ultra radical feminism does have more support in slightly less extreme forms - they call for a segregation of males and females completely, like Malcom X argued for a complete segregation of white and black people. The idea is men are so evil that patriarchy is inevitable, so females must form their own male free society along side a female free society.

I believe the same thing happens with gay men, alot of people try to "fix" them
What bothers me more is that they have convienced some gay men that it is possible.It's gotta be unhealthy in the long run.

Although, ultra radical feminism does have more support in slightly less extreme forms - they call for a segregation of males and females completely, like Malcom X argued for a complete segregation of white and black people. The idea is men are so evil that patriarchy is inevitable, so females must form their own male free society along side a female free society.
:rolleyes:
i should read some of this stuff... i need a good laugh.

:rolleyes:
i should read some of this stuff... i need a good laugh.

The problem is that the more of it there is around, the worse it is going to be for the liberal feminists cause. Radicalism tends to lead to backlash - my sociology teacher was convinced that there will probably be a masculinist backlash in the next 20 years just as females almost have full equality.