NationStates Jolt Archive

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An innocent woman has to die because we have a revolving door prison system in this nation. Someone commits a crime and they are given next to no time. Individuals are walking our streets fearless and the police are unable to do anything to safeguard citizens.

-The federal Liberals under Martin Jr cut RCMP border stations thereby allowing more guns into the nation
-The federal justice minister stated in the summer that gun sentences are tough enough
-52 people have died due to guns in Toronto this year (and before someone says that is lower than in America, it is higher than in the rest of Canada and furthermore tell that to the 52 families who have lost loved ones, not to mention the countless other people who are in hospital and are recovering due to gun wounds).

The worst part of all of this however is that Prime Minister Martin lies to Canadians when he says he cares. The same way he tells Canadians he cares about healthcare when he was the finance minister that cut $48 billion in funding to healthcare, education, and social services in 1994.

Martin will no doubt tell the public that his gun ban will work when in actuality making laws without proper enforcement and justice is the real problem

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.
Seconded

I do kind of blame the social issues. I do remember a headline on the Toronto sun that struck me very hard. It was something like "It's easier to get a gun than a job", it was a quote I believe.

The other facts are that the police are understaffed and have a court system that is working against them, not with them. We need to make sure the cops are able to do their job and justice gets served (aka a guy actually stays in jail). One of the things that is preventing the cops from doing their job is everyone is calling the police racists or doing racial profiling. Just remember that the majority of gun crimes are either commited by blacks with the victims often black. I believe there was a situation in a shooting at a graveyard not too long ago proving that.

Another thing is we need a prime minister who is willing to accept the fact that the laws need to be changed and not point our problem to someone else. Paul Martin actually wanted to *sue* the Gun Manufacturers in the United States for crimes commited by Canadians. Banning Handguns is not the solution, just like banning alchohal didn't work for the Americans. The Mayor of Toronto blamed people getting their guns stolen as the problem (hooray for being a victim of a crime).

We need more police power, tougher laws, and throw away the political correct crap. If the criminal is a different color then me, he is still a criminal, and it's not because of the evil whitey cop that is making him do it.

Canada City']I do kind of blame the social issues. I do remember a headline on the Toronto sun that struck me very hard. It was something like "It's easier to get a gun than a job", it was a quote I believe.

The other facts are that the police are understaffed and have a court system that is working against them, not with them. We need to make sure the cops are able to do their job and justice gets served (aka a guy actually stays in jail). One of the things that is preventing the cops from doing their job is everyone is calling the police racists or doing racial profiling. Just remember that the majority of gun crimes are either commited by blacks with the victims often black. I believe there was a situation in a shooting at a graveyard not too long ago proving that.

Another thing is we need a prime minister who is willing to accept the fact that the laws need to be changed and not point our problem to someone else. Paul Martin actually wanted to *sue* the Gun Manufacturers in the United States for crimes commited by Canadians. Banning Handguns is not the solution, just like banning alchohal didn't work for the Americans. The Mayor of Toronto blamed people getting their guns stolen as the problem (hooray for being a victim of a crime).

We need more police power, tougher laws, and throw away the political correct crap. If the criminal is a different color then me, he is still a criminal, and it's not because of the evil whitey cop that is making him do it.


But then the gun-banners wouldn't be able to use crime as an excuse to confiscate and the "criminals rights" advocates would have a tougher time making them out as the "victims".

"Gun violence in Toronto-innocent 19 year old woman killed"

There are "innocent" 19-year-old women?? :eek:

"Gun violence in Toronto-innocent 19 year old woman killed"

There are "innocent" 19-year-old women?? :eek:
Well apparently so... after all, there is no guarentee that you can "corrupt" all 19 year olds in North America.

but Thanks for trying. :D



On a serious note, does Canada have a background check system to see that no guns are legally sold to people with priors?

Well apparently so... after all, there is no guarentee that you can "corrupt" all 19 year olds in North America.

but Thanks for trying. :D
ROFLMAO! But ... but ... I tried so hard! :D

ROFLMAO! But ... but ... I tried so hard! :D
If she WAS innocent, she obviously has never met any of us! :D

On a serious note, I think it's a horrible tragedy. I really wish there were more we could do, but I think some people are gonna be prone to violence not matter how tough the laws, or how many jobs are available.

Sadly enough, some people don't WANT to work for a living. Others just have such a bad temper that they CAN'T think about the repercussions of their actions. And the only recourse in those cases are very long sentences, keeping them locked up until they either mature enough to calm down, or are just too old to be violent successfully.

... just too old to be violent successfully.
When I reach this point, please shoot me! :eek:

When I reach this point, please shoot me! :eek:
I think you being shot, or killed is a sign that you cannot be Successfully violent.

These things can be down to access, just as much as they are down to culture. You need to strike a balance between education (with dare I say propaganda?) and deterrents which shouldn't always be negatively based.

Just a suggestion

I think you being shot, or killed is a sign that you cannot be Successfully violent.
LOL! Reeeely??? Hmmm. Then it shouldn't be all that difficult, right? Perhaps I just look mean.

On a serious note, does Canada have a background check system to see that no guns are legally sold to people with priors?

Background checks, registration, psych evals, family questionaires, etc. All of it has failed so now they're talking confiscation. The problem is, is that it's rare that a "legal" gun is used to commit a crime.

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.

I agree, in almost all neihborhoods that have a high poverty rate there is violence. Just a fact of life.

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.
I don't see that complaint in the preceding post. I see PopularFreedom making the valid complaint that laws are not properly enforced and criminals aren't properly sentenced and imprisoned. And that's a complaint I wholeheartedly agree with.

Now, if the young lady or if some bystander had been armed maybe the outcome had been different. I find it interesting that a off-duty policeman was involved, yet there was no mention that he was armed or unarmed.

An innocent woman has to die because we have a revolving door prison system in this nation. Could you point out where in that article there is even a mention of the suspects being repeat offenders?
They haven't even charged anyone yet according to that article.

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.Indeed.

Could you point out where in that article there is even a mention of the suspects being repeat offenders?
They haven't even charged anyone yet according to that article.

If you go by the odds, over half of Canadian crime is committed by repeat offenders on repeat offenders, the rest is still majority repeat.

So then, how long till Toronto adopts a 3 strikes law?

Canada City'] "It's easier to get a gun than a job"

I remeber reading those exact words.It really is sad.Toronto is filled with crime.Here is a horrible story;http://www.torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2005/12/27/1369655-sun.html.

A teenaged girl was killed by a gunshot to the head and at least six other people were hit by slugs flying through throngs of shoppers in a Boxing Day bloodbath on Yonge St. just north of the Eaton Centre yesterday afternoon.

Among the injured was an off-duty Toronto constable who was grazed in the leg during the 5:30 p.m. shooting two blocks north of Dundas St.

Toronto Chief Bill Blair said another person is in critical condition in hospital.

Police believe the city's 78th murder victim, the 52nd by gunfire, was an innocent victim caught in the middle of a deadly argument.

The tragedy, however, did little to stop shoppers seeking deals from finding them and some stores which had their front doors blocked by yellow police tape, opened rear doors to allow shoppers in.


Two young men were arrested at Castle Frank TTC station within 15 minutes of the shootings. One was armed with a handgun, which was seized by arresting officers. They were taken to 52 Division.

Police haven't said if they're hunting for anyone else.

Some witnesses said they saw gunmen fire from a car while others said they saw gunmen running away from the scene.

Blair said two men who were standing on the street opened fire for reasons that were not immediately clear. He did not say if the two were shooting at each other or targeting people in the crowd.

Blair said police would be reviewing video surveillance tapes from cameras in the area to piece together what happened.

There were six shooting victims but there could be as many as eight, police said.

A witness who identified himself only by his first name Vikram said he saw a BMW with two men in it drive north on Yonge and as it approached Elm, they opened fire.

"They had guns in there," Vikram said, adding the two men fired "eight to 10 shots."

He said he saw "two girls drop," injured by the gunfire.

"It's pretty sad, especially (during) the festive season like this," he said.

He described the victims as being young teens.

Vikram said shoppers dropped the ground or ran into area businesses seeking refuge.

He said it took two or three minutes before calm returned to the area, and that was because emergency crews began arriving.

"People were running all over," he said. "The people were running in (stores) to save their lives, lying down on the ground."

His cousin Avhay Rawat, who was shopping in the Future Shop, said a couple of people ran into the store screaming that shots were being fired.

Witness John O'Brien said he overheard two men arguing behind him on Yonge. He said he then heard a volley of shots and saw four victims on the ground, two in front of the Foot Locker store, and two by the neighbouring Pizza Pizza shop.

It's the third time the area has been the scene of a shooting this year.

SADLY FAMILIAR

In April, three innocent bystanders were wounded in a shooting, while in July, in front of police and hundreds of bystanders, a man was shot dead in a gang retribution attack.

Matt, who didn't want his last name used, said he was by Gerrard St. when he heard the gunfire and then saw a man running north on Yonge St. collapse of an apparent gunshot wound.

"I saw one of the guys involved fall down and I went over to try and help him," he said. "He was bleeding and his chest was full of holes. It was scary."

"I was hoping no one was injured," said book store clerk Ulrich Holler. "But another person has died for no reason at all. It's a sad day that someone else has died again."

He said he was in the back of the store at Gould St. when he heard the shots.

"We went through this before in the summer, so we knew kind of what was going on," Holler said. "We knew to lock the door. I knew just to stay in back, I knew we were safe."

So then, how long till Toronto adopts a 3 strikes law?heh, I was just gonna say "third strike, and you're dead"
Although I suppose Canada doesn't have the death penalty..

As an imigrant to Canada coming up, I lived through two different depressing neighbourhoods (one is Jane & Finch, and second is Glendower in Scarborough). With the daily shootings and several other criminal activities occuring within those communities, thank god I came from a civil war torn country, so I was already used to voilence of greater proportion. Now I'm living in "richer" community (meaning everyone has a Mercedes or a BMW) and living here is completly opposite. I believe that, gun voilence can be related to the social fabric of the community but definitly not for the Somalians, we moved in to those neighbourhoods for financial reasons then worked hard and moved out. The same can't be said for other folks who lived there way before us and still remain there. Most of the non-Somalian teens I've met never showed me that they had any hope and a bleek future lay for them.

As an imigrant to Canada coming up, I lived through two different depressing neighbourhoods (one is Jane & Finch, and second is Glendower in Scarborough). With the daily shootings and several other criminal activities occuring within those communities, thank god I came from a civil war torn country, so I was already used to voilence of greater proportion. Now I'm living in "richer" community (meaning everyone has a Mercedes or a BMW) and living here is completly opposite. I believe that, gun voilence can be related to the social fabric of the community but definitly not for the Somalians, we moved in to those neighbourhoods for financial reasons then worked hard and moved out. The same can't be said for other folks who lived there way before us and still remain there. Most of the non-Somalian teens I've met never showed me that they had any hope and a bleek future lay for them.
You've said something very important and I'm curious about it. You and your family moved into a poor neighborhood because it was what you could afford. Then you worked like hell to get out of it. Why do you think that the others that you mention were content to stay?

Hopefully it does some good.


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/12/25/1367833-cp.html

Nunavut using hunting, culture to curb violent crime
By BOB WEBER




IQALUIT, Nunavut (CP) - This morning they were young offenders, breathing the stale air of jail.

This afternoon they are hunters, zooming over the snowy tundra in snowmobiles and sleds.

Rifles sit beside them. Caribou skins wrap them to ward off the cold. It is December, when the sun never rises more than a hand's breadth above the horizon.

Together with two employees from the jail, the four young men scan the snow and stony hills for caribou, wolves, polar bears, ptarmigan - anything worth shooting.

Tonight they will be inmates again - but maybe not quite the same inmates they were when they set out.

This is Nunavut's great gamble - that teaching modern Inuit the ways of their ancestors will cut violent crime rates that are many times above the Canadian average.

Martin will no doubt tell the public that his gun ban will work when in actuality making laws without proper enforcement and justice is the real problem
So what is proper justice? Is it your idea of justice? Is it mine? Is it Harper's?

If you go by the odds, over half of Canadian crime is committed by repeat offenders on repeat offenders, the rest is still majority repeat.
Source please.

How does Canada compare with the US in regards to repeat offenders?

You've said something very important and I'm curious about it. You and your family moved into a poor neighborhood because it was what you could afford. Then you worked like hell to get out of it. Why do you think that the others that you mention were content to stay?

I don't like to talk for other people but maybe it's got to do with the generation of family. Most of us were born in another country and starting up within this society is new and exciting while others were born in those depressing neighbourhoods (within Canada). I've got family members who are doctors, scientists, University professors, and so on from several Western countries, so I've got people to look up to. Also, if young Somali teens start to slip up in life, most of them are sent back to Somalia for few years to experience the hardship our fellow Somalians are going through and how we (Somalian Canadians) are fortunate.

Source please.

How does Canada compare with the US in regards to repeat offenders?

I'll edit: Over half of Canadian "murders" are commited by priors.

http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/columbine/Homicide-in-Canada99.pdf

In the US, it's about 50% w/ a criminal history.

I don't like to talk for other people but maybe it's got to do with the generation of family. Most of us were born in another country and starting up within this society is new and exciting while others were born in those depressing neighbourhoods (within Canada). I've got family members who are doctors, scientists, University professors, and so on from several Western countries, so I've got people to look up to. Also, if young Somali teens start to slip up in life, most of them are sent back to Somalia for few years to experience the hardship our fellow Somalians are going through and how we (Somalian Canadians) are fortunate.
Thanks. It's encouraging to hear from people that can work their way out of lousy circumstances. I wish that this idea could energize the folks that are resigned to life in the depressed neighborhoods. I think society would be so much better off.

I'll edit: Over half of Canadian "murders" are commited by priors.

http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/columbine/Homicide-in-Canada99.pdf
A link from a pro gun advocate doesn't work for me. Try something more official please.

In the US, it's about 50% w/ a criminal history.
Source please.

A link from a pro gun advocate doesn't work for me. Try something more official please.


Source please.

Really don't care what "works for you".

Not going to waste my time w/ a statistics war CH.

I tried for about a half an hour to track down a back-pager of a story that ran in the print edition of the (ultra-rightwing) tabloid rag The Toronto Sun early last week, to no avail.

It was a story concerning two American GIs who recently got their sorry asses busted trying to smuggle handguns to sell illegally in Canada.

However, I couldn't locate it - not in that rat's maze known as the archives of Sun Media, nor through a Google News search.

I wish you Americans would hurry up and build your continental-girdling 24-foot iron curtai- , erm, security enclosure. Put down that turkey sandwich and get to isolating yourselves - if you all pitch in you can get the job done before Valentine's Day.

Really don't care what "works for you".

Not going to waste my time w/ a statistics war CH.

It isn't worth it anyway because he'll claim whatever site you used as bias unless it is an anti-something website.

Keep up the good Kecibukia :)

As to this, I am predicting a rise in gun deaths in 2006 in Canada.

I wish you Americans would hurry up and build your continental-girdling 24-foot iron curtai- , erm, security enclosure. Put down that turkey sandwich and get to isolating yourselves - if you all pitch in you can get the job done before Valentine's Day.

Dobbsworld, that fence aint' going around Canada but it is going up along Mexico to keep those friggin illegals out of our country.

Dobbsworld, that fence aint' going around Canada but it is going up along Mexico to keep those friggin illegals out of our country.
Damnit!

I wanted to see the continental US wrapped like a display by Christo. :(

Damnit!

Sorry to burst your bubble but you do realize that the US and Canada have the longest undefended border on the planet right?

I wanted to see the continental US wrapped like a display by Christo. :(

Well we all can't get what we want now can we?

Sorry to burst your bubble but you do realize that the US and Canada have the longest undefended border on the planet right?
Yeah, heard about it early on in elementary school, dude - thirty-plus years ago. But look at a new iron curtain as this kinda 'win-win' situation: You get to crow over saving American youths from the scourge of high-potency Canadian weed and American grandmothers from the grasping reach of international terrorists, while we get a break from enterprising young sociopaths dumping illegal American weapons on the streets of Canadian cities.

Works for me.

Yeah, heard about it early on in elementary school, dude - thirty-plus years ago. But look at a new iron curtain as this kinda 'win-win' situation: You get to crow over saving American youths from the scourge of high-potency Canadian weed and American grandmothers from the grasping reach of international terrorists, while we get a break from enterprising young sociopaths dumping illegal American weapons on the streets of Canadian cities.

Works for me.
agreed

I wanted to see the continental US wrapped like a display by Christo. :(re-enforced with duct tape, works for me.

Maybe if you Canadians put down the weed, some of you would be enterprising enough to sell the guns yourselves at a lower cost and make it unprofitable for us the be exporting them to you. Geez, learn some economics.

Maybe if you Canadians put down the weed, some of you would be enterprising enough to sell the guns yourselves at a lower cost and make it unprofitable for us the be exporting them to you. Geez, learn some economics.
We don't want 'em. Some of our more misguided young people seem to believe the bullshit culural exports of US popular culture that we permit up here, and have armed themselves a la "Da Hood" - but Joe Average Canadian doesn't want 'em, and doesn't want our young morons having them, either.

If only you Americans would take up the weed, some of you would be better able to see that profiting from human misery is as hollow as it gets.

If only you Americans would take up the weed, some of you would be better able to see that profiting from human misery is as hollow as it gets.

Or perhaps we should get the game, movie, and music industry to stop peddling that sort of crap

Or perhaps we should get the game, movie, and music industry to stop peddling that sort of crap
Fat chance of that happening this century. Better to fence in your nation of sociopathic entrepeneurs.

Fat chance of that happening this century. Better to fence in your nation of sociopathic entrepeneurs.

Actually, there's a good chance of that but it would require parents to actually be parents and I don't see that happening.

We don't want 'em.

Thats not what your retailers say. Firearms do sell in Canada.



If only you Americans would take up the weed, some of you would be better able to see that profiting from human misery is as hollow as it gets.

Are you kidding? Drugs are a way bigger industry than weapons here.

*Finishes reading the posts between Dobbsworld and Corneliu*

*Sits back with HUGE tub of Popcorn to watch the battle.*

Are you kidding? Drugs are a way bigger industry than weapons here.
Oscar Wilde said that the definiton of a cynic is that the cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

And that means what to the conversation? You said we should do drugs and we wouldn't want the weapons. I pointed out how we do way more drugs than we use weapons, so it shoots down your idea.

And don't quote Oscar Wilde to an educated Irishman.

Why is it that it violence commited with a firearm is considered to be in a different class than any other sort of violent act?

Because guns are loud and scary looking and an easy target.

Its a lot easier to point at gun manufacturers than the guy in the mirror.

And that means what to the conversation? You said we should do drugs and we wouldn't want the weapons. I pointed out how we do way more drugs than we use weapons, so it shoots down your idea.

And don't quote Oscar Wilde to an educated Irishman.
That you'd need me to explain it in full defeats the purpose.

And don't go claiming to be at once American then later Irish. Choose. Or are you perpetually-hyphenated?

Here is a different take on the same story.

Canada blames U.S. for gun violence (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html)

**ducks behind desk to avoid incoming shit**

Mmhmm, now the Canadian Prime Minister refuses to say that it was a Canadian's fault, and points to their scrapegoat.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html

Next thing you'll know, he'll claim Americans keep running into Canada, shoot some people dead, and run out.

Or maybe he'll get kicked out for being such a sorry leader. Yeah that sounds better. The elections are in a month or so, right?

Hmmm. Could this mean that guns do commit crimes? And that having them for protection is no excuse?

Could it be that maybe weapons should be banned?

Naaaaaaa. The NRA is right.

The US is always right.

No, I'm an American from an Irish family. My folks immagrated. I just use Irishman occasionaly because its easier than "American from and Irish family". But I am, first and foremost an American and I do take care to make the distinction.

That you'd need me to explain it in full defeats the purpose.

So, in other words, it has no place in the conversation. You just wanted to sound smart and got called on it. Do you ever actually back up what you say?

Next thing you'll know, he'll claim Americans keep running into Canada, shoot some people dead, and run out.No, they'll cut-and-run after they get their money. Like usual.

Or maybe he'll get kicked out for being such a sorry leader. Yeah that sounds better. The elections are in a month or so, right?
*laughs*

(... and I'm not even a Martin supporter...)

Hmmm. Could this mean that guns do commit crimes?

An inanimate object commits crimes? Break this one down for me.


And that having them for protection is no excuse?

How does a perfectly logical reason for a law abiding citizen owning a tool for protection have any affect on this poor girl being shot by a maniac with an illegal weapon?

Could it be that maybe weapons should be banned?

Ya, because criminals hate breaking laws.

Naaaaaaa. The NRA is right.

In this limited scope, probably.

The US is always right.

Its just so much easier to pile on another country than it is to actually address the problems, isn't it?

Do you ever actually back up what you say?
Look, if I were to "back up" every bloody thing you in particular seem to want to take me to task over, I'd be here all night long, every night, in fact it would seem, explaining in ever-increasingly simple, nay monosyllabic words each and every thing that I've said that have clearly gone well over your pointed little head.

No thanks.

Instead, I've long since given up attempting to mollify and encourage people who apparently would like me to write a frickin' thesis every time I post on NS. Being a n00b, maybe you don't know this already. A little benefit of the doubt for the pugnacious hyphenated American fellow, here. But that's as far as it goes. Rather than thrash out each and every utterance and see dialogue devolve into dissection, I assume a reasonable level of comprehension from those I choose to interact with on NS and try moving things forward from there.

Or maybe I just find you hopelessly dull and pedantic. I dunno, a little from column 'a' and a little from column 'b', I guess. Jury's still out on the pugnacious n00b of hyphenated extraction. It's like the old 'Mystery Date' game. What mysteries will he pull from his hat next?

I'm so (un)gripped, I think I'll go eat some of Junii's popcorn.

*edit: and yes, the Wilde quote is relevant. Particularly in reference to the post in question.

*second edit: it's not a question of 'sounding smart'. It's the smart ones who have trouble not sounding stupid.

*sticks thumbs in ears and wags fingers menacingly*

*sticks thumbs in ears and wags fingers menacingly*
You forgot to stick out your tongue, BTW. Just thought you should know.

*removes thumbs from ears*

What?

Oh - oh right!

*re-inserts thumbs, sticks out tongue, and proceeds to wag fingers yet again, this time more vigorously and with clearly anti-everything-moral-and-decent-in-this-world gleaming in the villainy of my bulging bloodshot eyes*

Thanks on that one.

*removes thumbs from ears*

What?

Oh - oh right!

*re-inserts thumbs, sticks out tongue, and proceeds to wag fingers yet again, this time more vigorously and with clearly anti-everything-moral-and-decent-in-this-world gleaming in the villainy of my bulging bloodshot eyes*

Thanks on that one.
*positions you behind a Soviet flag backdrop*

NOW we're talkin'! :D

Why is it that it violence commited with a firearm is considered to be in a different class than any other sort of violent act?

Among many reasons:

1. Violence committed with a firearm generally is more dangerous/causes more damage than other violence.

2. It is particularly easy to commit violence with a firearm. Much easier to commit murderous violence.

Look, if I were to "back up" every bloody thing you in particular seem to want to take me to task over, I'd be here all night long, every night, in fact it would seem, explaining in ever-increasingly simple, nay monosyllabic words each and every thing that I've said that have clearly gone well over your pointed little head.

Thats it, try and say I'm the stupid one.

How about you worry less about using a lot of words and worry about using better ones? Spouting quotes that simply don't belong in a conversation and trying to be all smug about it really doesn't make you look smart.



Instead, I've long since given up attempting to mollify and encourage people who apparently would like me to write a frickin' thesis every time I post on NS.

No, I just want you to actually say something relevent. An original thought that you can back up and argue for.

Being a n00b, maybe you don't know this already.

Actually this is my 5 or 6 time in this game. I've been here on and off since the NS boards started lo those years ago. We've had conversations before. I've seen you and others try this crap.

A little benefit of the doubt for the pugnacious hyphenated American fellow, here.

I don't hyphenate.

But that's as far as it goes. Rather than thrash out each and every utterance and see dialogue devolve into dissection, I assume a reasonable level of comprehension from those I choose to interact with on NS and try moving things forward from there.

Has it occured to you that maybe its not the reading comprehension thats the problem? You obviously haven't read anything I or some others have said. You bounce around and bring up irrelevent points to the conversation.

Or maybe I just find you hopelessly dull and pedantic. I dunno, a little from column 'a' and a little from column 'b', I guess. Jury's still out on the pugnacious n00b of hyphenated extraction. It's like the old 'Mystery Date' game. What mysteries will he pull from his hat next?

I don't care if you find me frothy with no aftertaste, it still doesn't change the fact that you can't hold on to the discussion and try red herrings and other grade school crap to avoid facing up to what you are saying. And it sure as hell doesn't make any of us stupid for not buying your act.

*edit: and yes, the Wilde quote is relevant. Particularly in reference to the post in question.

In what way? How does it relate to me pointing out how drugs are a bigger bussines in this country than guns?

*second edit: it's not a question of 'sounding smart'.

Good, because you don't

It's the smart ones who have trouble not sounding stupid.

No, I do a good job of not sounding stupid. Then again, I wait until I have something relevent and well thought out to say.

*sticks thumbs in ears and wags fingers menacingly*

That would be the smartest thing you've done so far.

Maybe if you Canadians put down the weed
Go ask a BC'er. Tell them to stop growing weeds for your folks down south, and tell your people to stop buying weed from us.
some of you would be enterprising enough to sell the guns yourselves at a lower cost and make it unprofitable for us the be exporting them to you. Geez, learn some economics.We don't need guns.

*smiles and arches brow*

Then why be so coy and use an attack puppet?

Afraid to speak your mind with your 'real' identity? Or afraid to get your hands dirty?

Why don't you and your fellow aggrieved NSers form a union or something? The 'NS Anti-Dobbsworld Local 001', perhaps. Better yet, why don't I save myself the trouble, and throw you onto my 'ignore list' instead.

Might as well put away the popcorn and settle in for a bit of pedantry instead. Penetrobe and his vast unseen thronging majority of tongue-clucking forum-buddies apparently want to liven the place up a bit with... with whatever it is they do.

Later,

DW.

*edit: steals kernel of popcorn on way out

snipWow, you sound like a cry-baby like Man in Black.

*snip*

It is unfortunate that you are either unfamiliar with or unable to grasp the use of wit.

Dobbsworld simply made a witty comment. You are making yourself look silly by getting your panties in such a twist about it.

*smiles and arches brow*

Then why be so coy and use an attack puppet?

Afraid to speak your mind with your 'real' identity? Or afraid to get your hands dirty?


I only have his one identity. Its just that when you leave your account alone for a while, they delete it for inactivity and I have to make a new name.


Why don't you and your fellow aggrieved NSers form a union or something? The 'NS Anti-Dobbsworld Local 001', perhaps.

I'm not aggrieved. Just calling you on a garbage tactic.

Better yet, why don't I save myself the trouble, and throw you onto my 'ignore list' instead.

Because that would cut into the attention you so desperatly crave.

Better yet, just admit you were wrong.


Might as well put away the popcorn and settle in for a bit of pedantry instead. Penetrobe and his vast unseen thronging majority of tongue-clucking forum-buddies apparently want to liven the place up a bit with... with whatever it is they do.

I don't claim anyone else on my side but me. I'm sure anyone that agrees with me will speak up just fine if they want to.

Later,

DW.

*edit: steals kernel of popcorn on way out

Like you can stay away for long.

It is unfortunate that you are either unfamiliar with or unable to grasp the use of wit.

Dobbsworld simply made a witty comment. You are making yourself look silly by getting your panties in such a twist about it.agreed :p

It is unfortunate that you are either unfamiliar with or unable to grasp the use of wit.

Dobbsworld simply made a witty comment. You are making yourself look silly by getting your panties in such a twist about it.

No he used a quote out of context and has several times made many comments that simply didn't fit in with the discussion. And then he gets ambiguous and talks down to people who don't get whatever point he thinks he made.

No he used a quote out of context and has several times made many comments that simply didn't fit in with the discussion. And then he gets ambiguous and talks down to people who don't get whatever point he thinks he made.Nice try kiddo. :rolleyes:

Cat-Tribe is right, Dobbsworld actually made serious comments. You are just being a little whiny 5 year old.

...I like the bit about 'talking down to people'. By his own admission, this poster uses or has used up to six different personae on NS at one time or another.

For all I know now, I may actually offend only one person on NS.

*edit: it's actually rather novel only seeing his posts as quotations contained in other posts. I do this so rarely, after all. Hmm, lends credence to my earlier supposition.

...I like the bit about 'talking down to people'. By his own admission, this poster uses or has used up to six different personae on NS at one time or another.

For all I know now, I may actually offend only one person on NS.

*edit: it's actually rather novel only seeing his posts as quotations contained in other posts. I do this so rarely, after all. Hmm, lends credence to my earlier supposition.You mean Penetrobe is a puppet? :confused:

I just use Irishman occasionaly because its easier than "American from and Irish family".


Easier but false.

Look, if I were to "back up" every bloody thing you in particular seem to want to take me to task over, I'd be here all night long, every night, in fact it would seem, explaining in ever-increasingly simple, nay monosyllabic words each and every thing that I've said that have clearly gone well over your pointed little head.

No thanks.

Instead, I've long since given up attempting to mollify and encourage people who apparently would like me to write a frickin' thesis every time I post on NS. Being a n00b, maybe you don't know this already. A little benefit of the doubt for the pugnacious hyphenated American fellow, here. But that's as far as it goes. Rather than thrash out each and every utterance and see dialogue devolve into dissection, I assume a reasonable level of comprehension from those I choose to interact with on NS and try moving things forward from there.

Or maybe I just find you hopelessly dull and pedantic. I dunno, a little from column 'a' and a little from column 'b', I guess. Jury's still out on the pugnacious n00b of hyphenated extraction. It's like the old 'Mystery Date' game. What mysteries will he pull from his hat next?

I'm so (un)gripped, I think I'll go eat some of Junii's popcorn.

*edit: and yes, the Wilde quote is relevant. Particularly in reference to the post in question.

*second edit: it's not a question of 'sounding smart'. It's the smart ones who have trouble not sounding stupid.

*sticks thumbs in ears and wags fingers menacingly*got butter in it. hope that's ok with you.

*Nearly chokes on popcorn at Dobb's 'Gesture'*

Nice try kiddo. :rolleyes:

Cat-Tribe is right, Dobbsworld actually made serious comments. You are just being a little whiny 5 year old.

Was it witty or serious? Was he just joking with me or really trying to make a point?

...I like the bit about 'talking down to people'. By his own admission, this poster uses or has used up to six different personae on NS at one time or another.


I actually read lots of threads and have seen you talk down to others. I only use one name at a time. It would be too much trouble for me to keep several names going at once.

Are both sides gonna debate or is everyone just attacking each other's credibility? :confused:

Why can't we debate like civilized people and not resort to attacking each other?

I wish I knew Colodia. This isn't the first time someone's created an attack-puppet to hector me, though. And probably won't be the last.

Adios, amigos.

*poof*

When I reach this point, please shoot me! :eek:

You dying from a gunshot would be so degrating, and I'd probably cry, Eutrusca. For you to die from something like that when I imagine you taking down two grizzly bears bare handed (no pun intended, really), I'd be heartbroken. :( Then what crusty old superhuman veteran would I have to look up to? :(

:D

What kind of message are you sending by just talking about it on here? If you are really serious about you should commit yourselves to doing something about it. What about sending in a letter to your official MP, MPP etc. You want to help? Try volunteering in the community, get to know your neighbours and actively petition signatures against gun violence. What we need are active advocates not people who just sit idly by and waste time talking on here. (Of course now I'm contradicting myself because I'm adding to the talking) Even though I am one person, I make a difference because I am going to petition when I canvas for the March of Dimes in January, and get signatures from people on my street. Commit yourself to the idea that if you want change it has to happen from inside. You can't expect people to change for you if you don't address your needs to them. You want a change in the way that things are run here in Toronto, change the way you view your opinion. Voice your opinion, soon you will know that we are all singing along the same tune. And agreeing. Change will come from inside.

Or perhaps we should get the game, movie, and music industry to stop peddling that sort of crap

Ah, censorship, always the best solution to a given problem! Perhaps while we're doing away with this "Gangster Rap" we can get Elvis to stop shaking his hips. Just yesterday my youngest, Petunia, was overcome by one of his garish displays and we had to fetch the vapors.

I'd say that that attitude is why right after freedom of speech there is the freedom to own a weapon, but that be in bad taste considering the thread.

Oh...wait...shit...*shrug*

Actually, there's a good chance of that but it would require parents to actually be parents and I don't see that happening.

Mwahuhhuh? Surely you must not have children. It is just so hard to be a parent these days. You have no idea what they're doing with their TVs when you aren't in the room, with your money when you aren't in the store, with their oPids and videogames. Honestly, its hard and they won't like you if you tell them no. No...we definately need the government to step in, then we don't have to be the bad guys...

Was it witty or serious? Was he just joking with me or really trying to make a point?

Agree or disagree, someone can do both, ya know. I mean, I can't think of a single time I've agreed with Dobbs, but I'll admit, wit and substance do tend to go hand in hand with him/her/it.

What kind of message are you sending by just talking about it on here? If you are really serious about you should commit yourselves to doing something about it. What about sending in a letter to your official MP, MPP etc. You want to help? Try volunteering in the community, get to know your neighbours and actively petition signatures against gun violence. What we need are active advocates not people who just sit idly by and waste time talking on here. (Of course now I'm contradicting myself because I'm adding to the talking) Even though I am one person, I make a difference because I am going to petition when I canvas for the March of Dimes in January, and get signatures from people on my street. Commit yourself to the idea that if you want change it has to happen from inside. You can't expect people to change for you if you don't address your needs to them. You want a change in the way that things are run here in Toronto, change the way you view your opinion. Voice your opinion, soon you will know that we are all singing along the same tune. And agreeing. Change will come from inside.
You try doing all that as a 15 year old. Once I've graduated college, we'll talk. For now, this is all I can do.

It always bothers me when people toss around the term "innocent". The first thing I would want to ask about this "innocent woman" is on what charges was she indicted? I suppose, if anything, she was guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and sentenced to death.

Ok, that doesn't sound any better either, so let's leave the poor woman out of this, shall we? It's not like it makes this man's actions any more just.

Obviously, locking people up for a time doesn't deter them from crime, so maybe we should consider other punishments? How about putting people's hands in casts so they can't close their hands around a gun? Sure that would make lots of other things inconvenient, but I kind of figured that would be the point.

Got any better ideas?

Really don't care what "works for you".

Not going to waste my time w/ a statistics war CH.
Well if you want to toss out statements, then you should be prepared to back them up with reliable sources.

While I am disturbed by the recent escalation of gun related murders in Toronto, I fully realize that most urban US centres are far worse statistically.

It is estimated that half the guns used in Toronto crime are coming from the US. That revelation is not surprising considering the lax gun laws in certain States.

It isn't worth it anyway because he'll claim whatever site you used as bias unless it is an anti-something website.

Keep up the good Kecibukia :)

As to this, I am predicting a rise in gun deaths in 2006 in Canada.
Ahhh nice of you to contribute your usual dose of nothing substantial to add to the debate.

Thanks for playing.

but Joe Average Canadian doesn't want 'em, and doesn't want our young morons having them, either.

You mean "Joe Urban Ontario Canadian."

There is a huge spike of gun sells in the west recently since Martin was talking about banning hand guns.

Here is a different take on the same story.

Canada blames U.S. for gun violence (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/12/27/canada.crime.ap/index.html)

**ducks behind desk to avoid incoming shit**

Nothing new. This "Canada's problems don't exist" stance the liberal government has taken has been going on for months.

It is estimated that half the guns used in Toronto crime are coming from the US. That revelation is not surprising considering the lax gun laws in certain States.

Now, now, let's not go blaming the guns either. It's like Archie Bunker said: "Would it make you feel better if she was pushed out of a window?" Rather than ask "how do we keep guns from entering Toronto?", why not ask "What is causing Toronto's citizens to become so murderous?"

What I'm saying is that if people want to make a difference Colodia, it shouldn't matter what age you are. We have been conditioned to accept what has been given to us, and not been able to speak up for ourselves when it comes to the standards that the government imposes. If you want change seek from within your heart and find the truth. Seek and ye shall find. Don't expect someone to do the job for you. Spread the word that you want change in the way people view crime and deviance. It's all about spreading what you believe which could be done through letters, petitions, or just volunteering your time to the community. We would all be better off if we reached out more and helped others instead of all the hurt in this world.

Hmmm. Could this mean that guns do commit crimes? And that having them for protection is no excuse?

Could it be that maybe weapons should be banned?

Naaaaaaa. The NRA is right.

The US is always right.

We banned murder, robbery, and drinking/driving. They still exist.

And I remember you americans banned beer and that didn't work out too well.

Banning stuff doesn't solve the problem.

Canada City']There is a huge spike of gun sells in the west recently since Martin was talking about banning hand guns.
Really?

Come on now, please view my first one on this issue on page 6.

What I'm saying is that if people want to make a difference Colodia, it shouldn't matter what age you are. We have been conditioned to accept what has been given to us, and not been able to speak up for ourselves when it comes to the standards that the government imposes. If you want change seek from within your heart and find the truth. Seek and ye shall find. Don't expect someone to do the job for you. Spread the word that you want change in the way people view crime and deviance. It's all about spreading what you believe which could be done through letters, petitions, or just volunteering your time to the community. We would all be better off if we reached out more and helped others instead of all the hurt in this world.
Okay. YOU try going to your local high school and explain everyone why Bush is making the country a bad place to live.

*Finishes reading the posts between Dobbsworld and Corneliu*

*Sits back with HUGE tub of Popcorn to watch the battle.*

You forgot the beer.

Don't want to disappoint the liberals.

Canada City']
Banning stuff doesn't solve the problem.
Agreed. Usually what happens when you ban stuff is the main people you don't want to have it, the bad guys, are the only ones that do have it. Strange how that works that way...

Now, now, let's not go blaming the guns either. It's like Archie Bunker said: "Would it make you feel better if she was pushed out of a window?" Rather than ask "how do we keep guns from entering Toronto?", why not ask "What is causing Toronto's citizens to become so murderous?"Well since 70+ murders in Toronto were gun-related, I say that's a very good question.

Really?

YA RLY

http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/story/ed_handgun-sales-20051219.html

EDIT: Okay, not the entire west, but to say that "Canadians don't need a handgun" is bullshit. Ontario is NOT Canada.

Are both sides gonna debate or is everyone just attacking each other's credibility? :confused:

Why can't we debate like civilized people and not resort to attacking each other?

This is NS General. There are no civilized debates :D

Canada City']You forgot the beer.

Don't want to disappoint the liberals.

lol

Well since 70+ gun-related murders were in Toronto, I say that's a very good question.
And murders only happen in Toronto when a gun is involved?

Technically I couldn't do that since I'm not an American, but what I do believe is that (I'm getting off topic) is that the US needs to take care of their own issues ie: Skid Row for example, and investing in education, and social welfare but knowing the way they operate it would never happen. Anyways stick to the subject Colodia. (By the way I do my part by working in the school system anyways) Just stating the obvious that today's youth don't seem to care. Hence the low average percentage of youths that are of age who vote. Let's just say, that if you're of the age where you can vote, please make sure you participate in the elections this year and vote for a party that you believe relates to your issues.

Canada City']YA RLY

http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/story/ed_handgun-sales-20051219.html

uh huh.

EDIT: Okay, not the entire westThat's what I thought.

But to say that "Canadians don't need a handgun" is bullshit.
What? We need a handgun? Well, there's a 1 and a infinitive number chance of getting hit by a terrorist you know. :rolleyes:

Ontario is NOT Canada.
true.

I only use one name at a time. It would be too much trouble for me to keep several names going at once.
Well then, what are your other aliases? Perhaps you want to create a new personna because everyone had your number, or is it that you enjoy the split personality complex?

And murders only happen in Toronto when a gun is involved?oops. Sorry, I'm talking about gun murders in Toronto, not the rest of Canada. http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10168106&postcount=99

Mwahuhhuh? Surely you must not have children. It is just so hard to be a parent these days. You have no idea what they're doing with their TVs when you aren't in the room, with your money when you aren't in the store, with their oPids and videogames. Honestly, its hard and they won't like you if you tell them no. No...we definately need the government to step in, then we don't have to be the bad guys...

No children yet but I will tell you this! When I do have children, I'm going to be involved in their daily lives, guiding them. Yes they'll make mistakes and they'll learn to live with them. They'll tell me where they are going or they won't be going anywhere for awhile.

My parents had a profound affect on my life. They were always there to answer my questions and I knew what I could and could not get away with. The same will be true for my kids as well.

What? We need a handgun? Well, there's a 1 and a infinitive number chance of getting hit by a terrorist you know.


To be a bit off-topic, you need to remember that there is a bunch of Canadian hostages right now who were against the war captured by terrorists. In their eyes, we are the same as Americans.

That being said, I wouldn't mind having a hand gun of my own for protection due to my experience for two near-witnessing shootings so far. One being near one of the biggest malls in Ontario, Square One, where a fellow got a shot in the head at the mall entrance. Another one at Richmond street, where many young kids and clubbers go out on saturday nights.

That, and I would use it for recreational proposes like target practice.

Either way, the majority of the west does use guns mainly for protection against animals or hunting purposes. And last time I checked, according to our geography, they are part of Canada.

Canada City']Nothing new. This "Canada's problems don't exist" stance the liberal government has taken has been going on for months.

Don't you mean years?

Don't you mean years?

Ah yes, if we are counting other problems besides the nice rise of gun shootings.

Now, now, let's not go blaming the guns either. It's like Archie Bunker said: "Would it make you feel better if she was pushed out of a window?" Rather than ask "how do we keep guns from entering Toronto?", why not ask "What is causing Toronto's citizens to become so murderous?"
I think Cat Tribe summed it up beautifully:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10167612&postcount=65

Canada City']Ah yes, if we are counting other problems besides the nice rise of gun shootings.

Just checking :D

Canada City']That being said, I wouldn't mind having a hand gun of my own for protection due to my experience for two near-witnessing shootings so far. One being near one of the biggest malls in Ontario, Square One, where a fellow got a shot in the head at the mall entrance. Another one at Richmond street, where many young kids and clubbers go out on saturday nights.So you won't need cops then?

For those youths who feel that they aren't able to take action check out: http://www.unac.org/learn/wwwp/youthaction.html

For those youths who feel that they aren't able to take action check out: http://www.unac.org/learn/wwwp/youthaction.html

Hey, that's a pretty good site.

So you won't need cops then?

Don't twist my words around.

It's pretty obvious the cops aren't too happy about the situation and when you have politicians and mayors breathing down on you for some stupid crap like "racial profliling" or cutting funds, despite the situation, there is going problems enforcing the law.

However, I do not want to rely my own personal safety on JUST the cops. If I have the means to defend myself, I should, whether it is some martial arts program to a gun. Why shouldn't I be able to defend myself? Cops are there to enforce the law, but unless we develop technology that allows instant teleportation, you shouldn't rely your life to them 100%.

Interesting reading (http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/layne/Epidemiology%20220/01.intro.pdf#search='worldwide%20deaths%20per%20year')

I was curious as to how many people died every year around the world, and it's right around 57 million. Most of these are in third world countries from starvation and disease. Besides, what's worse? 70 people getting shot because we can't control guns or 7 million people dying because nobody gives a crap about them?

No children yet but I will tell you this! When I do have children, I'm going to be involved in their daily lives, guiding them. Yes they'll make mistakes and they'll learn to live with them. They'll tell me where they are going or they won't be going anywhere for awhile.

My parents had a profound affect on my life. They were always there to answer my questions and I knew what I could and could not get away with. The same will be true for my kids as well.

Good, I hope you hold to those ideals. The world would be a better place if more parents parented.

Interesting reading (http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/layne/Epidemiology%20220/01.intro.pdf#search='worldwide%20deaths%20per%20year')

I was curious as to how many people died every year around the world, and it's right around 57 million. Most of these are in third world countries from starvation and disease. Besides, what's worse? 70 people getting shot because we can't control guns or 7 million people dying because nobody gives a crap about them?
As far as this thread is concerned, it is about people being shot in Toronto. If you want to start a thread about the other 57 million, you have every right to do so.

Good, I hope you hold to those ideals. The world would be a better place if more parents parented.

And precisely what I ment by my comment regarding parents actually parenting instead of letting their children run wild.

http://www.controlarms.org/downloads/video1.htm
Another site to check out.
As far as the whole witnessing Square One and Richmond Street, how could you have Canada City?? They took place fairly far apart from each other. I could have said that I witnessed it too because I'm around that area but it's a useless concept to think that just because you have a gun means it's going to be used in defence? Having a weapon can be used against you. That's why in prisons officers don't carry them in case the prisoners turn on them.

And precisely what I ment by my comment regarding parents actually parenting instead of letting their children run wild.

I'd guessed, but I decided to use it as a soap box anyway. Kneejerk censorship reactions to the media are one of my raw nerves and sometimes I get to ranting. Sorry if there was a miscommunication, I wasn't trying to imply that you were pro-censorship. Perhaps I should have dropped in sarcasm tags.

I'd guessed, but I decided to use it as a soap box anyway. Kneejerk censorship reactions to the media are one of my raw nerves and sometimes I get to ranting. Sorry if there was a miscommunication, I wasn't trying to imply that you were pro-censorship. Perhaps I should have dropped in sarcasm tags.

Probably. I'm against most censorship but if it incites violence (as most of the music, video games, and movies do it seems) then maybe there should be. Not saying it'll solve anything but it could be a start.

Canada City']That being said, I wouldn't mind having a hand gun of my own for protection due to my experience for two near-witnessing shootings so far. One being near one of the biggest malls in Ontario, Square One, where a fellow got a shot in the head at the mall entrance. Another one at Richmond street, where many young kids and clubbers go out on saturday nights.Also, how's that gonna help reduce gun-violence? I rather see a gun-free enviroment than a warfare involving handguns.

I think Cat Tribe summed it up beautifully:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10167612&postcount=65

One would think explosives would exceed firearms in their devastation, both on lives and property, but nobody complains about explosives much.

"Oh, but explosives aren't as commonly used"

Yeah, and guns aren't as commonly used as other implements of violence.

One other interesting quote I found:here (http://fact.on.ca/news/news0210/gm021003.htm)
"The World Health Organization estimates that, globally, more than 1.6 million people died in violent circumstances in the year 2000.

Of that total, 815,000 committed suicide, 520,000 were murdered and 310,000 died in armed conflicts, including terrorist attacks."

More people are killing themselves than are being murdered. That seems more of a tragedy to me.

Yeah, and guns aren't as commonly used as other implements of violence.
In the US, firearms are used in almost 70% of murders. Handguns are the weapon of choice for obvious reasons.

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.

You nailed it once again.

http://www.controlarms.org/downloads/video1.htm
Another site to check out.
As far as the whole witnessing Square One and Richmond Street, how could you have Canada City?? They took place fairly far apart from each other. I could have said that I witnessed it too because I'm around that area but it's a useless concept to think that just because you have a gun means it's going to be used in defence? Having a weapon can be used against you. That's why in prisons officers don't carry them in case the prisoners turn on them.

I didn't say I witnessed them, near witnessed.

Square One was literally after I just entered the building and had a quick lunch before I went bike riding again. Went outside to get my bike and tadah, cops around.

Richmond Hill was few months ago, during a friend's birthday party. The same night we went out clubbing at Richmond Street, there was a shooting in the area.


Also, how's that gonna help reduce gun-violence? I rather see a gun-free enviroment than a warfare involving handguns.


What choice do we have? Already there is major restrictions on firearms and as everyone else stated, Canadians don't see a real need for guns. Guess what's happening? Cops are understaffed and the victims have no way of defending themselves.

I guarantee you that either the cops need to start improving, or if people of Toronto really care about their communities, start pulling some vigilante shit. I for one am rather sick and tired of the pacifist approuch in all of this, and I really hope that whoever wins the election on Jan 23rd, be it Liberal or Conservative, actually tries to monitor this problem right away.

Fears of John Kerry getting elected and banning Semi-automatic center fire rifles is what caused me to buy my SKS. Don't see why Canadians are any different when it comes to Pistoleros.

One would think explosives would exceed firearms in their devastation, both on lives and property, but nobody complains about explosives much.

"Oh, but explosives aren't as commonly used"

Yeah, and guns aren't as commonly used as other implements of violence.

One other interesting quote I found:here (http://fact.on.ca/news/news0210/gm021003.htm)
"The World Health Organization estimates that, globally, more than 1.6 million people died in violent circumstances in the year 2000.

Of that total, 815,000 committed suicide, 520,000 were murdered and 310,000 died in armed conflicts, including terrorist attacks."

More people are killing themselves than are being murdered. That seems more of a tragedy to me.

The UN should make suicide, murder, and terrorist attacks illegal.

The UN should make suicide, murder, and terrorist attacks illegal.UN can't make laws.

UN can't make laws.

DING DING DING!

In the US, firearms are used in almost 70% of murders. Handguns are the weapon of choice for obvious reasons.

The funny thing is the gun grabbers are trying thier damnest to grab center fire semi-auto rifle. However those are used less than knifes in homicides. :p

You know even, though their group is small they have done a lot in the social welfare of things. Even though they may not win their efforts have been great and we need more of them in the seats.

Canada City']What choice do we have? Already there is major restrictions on firearms and as everyone else stated, Canadians don't see a real need for guns. Guess what's happening? Cops are understaffed and the victims have no way of defending themselves.Well this is a Toronto problem, right? These people who are behind the shootings are young people who are in poverty and really don't have a bright future ahead of them. These guys need help, there should be social programs that should be helping them.

DING DING DING!
Did I win something? :D

You know even, though their group is small they have done a lot in the social welfare of things. Even though they may not win their efforts have been great and we need more of them in the seats.
Vote:

http://www.ndp.ca/themes/ndp/images/ndp_logo.gif

Well this is a Toronto problem, right? These people who are behind the shootings are young people who are in poverty and really don't have a bright future ahead of them. These guys need help, there should be social programs that should be helping them.


It's not just a Toronto problem, it is an Ontario one, and the cutting of social programs by Mike Harris has been on eof the primary contributing factors in my opinion. HE seemed to have this opinion that if you could punish people enough for being poor that they'd find their own ways out of poverty. Frankly, there are better ways to motivate people to better themselves, and going about putting in extra impediments as he did was a stupid idea that Toronto is now paying for.

It's not just a Toronto problem, it is an Ontario one, and the cutting of social programs by Mike Harris has been on eof the primary contributing factors in my opinion. HE seemed to have this opinion that if you could punish people enough for being poor that they'd find their own ways out of poverty. Frankly, there are better ways to motivate people to better themselves, and going about putting in extra impediments as he did was a stupid idea that Toronto is now paying for.
There is certainly some merit to what you have put forth.

This is the third age I've heard. I heard 16 on Global News tonight, maybe I miss heard.

At the very least someone was killed by stray bullets. We will never no what really happened.

I can only assume the 2o year old male in critical condition will most likely be able to give more information if there is any.

Eatons center of all places..

Atleast it ain't IRAQ. People are killed there daily.

This is the third age I've heard. I heard 16 on Global News tonight, maybe I miss heard.

At the very least someone was killed by stray bullets. We will never no what really happened.

I can only assume the 2o year old male in critical condition will most likely be able to give more information if there is any.

Eatons center of all places..

Atleast it ain't IRAQ. People are killed there daily.

Yeah, one of the biggest places in Toronto and someone get's shot.

During Christmas, I went from the Eaton's center to Queen street. Didn't even notice ONE cop around.

Canada City']Yeah, one of the biggest places in Toronto and someone get's shot.

During Christmas, I went from the Eaton's center to Queen street. Didn't even notice ONE cop around.
Toronto is averaging one and a half murders every week. Perhaps you should visit "gun happy" Richmond, Virginia (population 195,000) where they are averaging 2 murders per week. Maybe that would put things in perspective for you?

"Gun violence in Toronto-innocent 19 year old woman killed"

There are "innocent" 19-year-old women?? :eek:
The article now says she was 15, not 19.

They really need better gun control in Canada, esp. not handing out guns to suspicious people.

The article now says she was 15, not 19.

They really need better gun control in Canada, esp. not handing out guns to suspicious people.

No, that isn't how they get their guns. Either is smuggled from the US or it is stolen from one of our gun owners.

We have the pathetic gun registry program for the paperwork. As you can tell, NOT WORKING.

Did I win something? :D

Yep. You just proved that you do have an intelligence after all :D.

*stops there before he threadjacks*

Probably. I'm against most censorship but if it incites violence (as most of the music, video games, and movies do it seems) then maybe there should be. Not saying it'll solve anything but it could be a start.


I guess that is a reasonable position. I don't really agree that movies, music, or videogames do incite (I mean, there are a few laboratory tests that indicate they might make people more aggressive, but the effects are small and the studies had rather flawed methodologies). Honestly, we haven't seen any real field studies that indicate they do, and even though the media has become increasingly violent, crime has been on the decline for more than a decade in the U.S.

Granted, this is somewhat apocryphal, but I've been a member of Chicago's heavy metal community for a long time. Headbangers watch violent movies, listen to agressive music, drink heavily, and a good deal of us love extremely violent videogames. Still, as a group, we aren't particularily criminal or violent. I only know two people with felony convictions, one for stealing from his job when he was quite poor and one for marijuana possession. Hell, I'm a pretty big fan or Scandinavian black metal, I've yet to burn a church to the ground.

I've always felt that violence is, in most cases, a combination of poor economic conditions and poor socialization, which is why you see less of it when you address the underlying causes. Say what you want, but a city like Chicago (that was, for a very long time, very violent) didn't really start becoming a safe place to live until you had more police presence, community based policing (which is amazingly effective and not much more expensive than standard policing), and a reduction of ghettos for the poor (moving to scattered site housing rather than large public housing communities, etc).

Also, how's that gonna help reduce gun-violence? I rather see a gun-free enviroment than a warfare involving handguns.

A gun free enviornment would be great, but it can't work. Prohibition ALWAYS fails. More importantly, prohibition of guns leaves only criminals armed. Sure, it'd be great if you could press a button and unmake every gun in existance, but it just isn't a possability. Hell, banning guns doesn't even keep them out of the country. I mean, is there cocaine in canada?

The vast majority of gun owners are responsible people who have never, and will never, be involved in criminal activity. They own guns because they want to hunt, because they enjoy shooting sports (like target or skeet shooting), because they want to be able to protect their homes (believe me, it happens more often than you think), because the guns were handed down over the generations and have become heirlooms, because they enjoy the inherant beauty of the machine. Banning guns punishes these people. A criminal who is planning on robbing someone at gunpoint or killing a rival dealer isn't exactly afraid to do something illegal.

They really need better gun control in Canada, esp. not handing out guns to suspicious people.Bzzt! Irrational/incorrect statement! Connotation that US "hands out firearms" incorrect, spurious and inflamatory.

All non-private firearms transfers require a government form and NCIS check.

No Cookie for you.

The article now says she was 15, not 19.

They really need better gun control in Canada, esp. not handing out guns to suspicious people.

My question to you is: How do you intend to make laws against something that is already illegal?

It's kinda like the politians here... "I am going to make tougher laws on drugs and guns." Translation: I am going to make repressive laws on something that is already illegal that only effects lawabiding citizens. I think the big problem is, no one sees through thier words and votes them in.

Good, I hope you hold to those ideals. The world would be a better place if more parents parented.
...Just think how much better a place it'd be if people didn't breed at all.

...Just think how much better a place it'd be if people didn't breed at all.


At the very least, it would be nice and quiet.

My question to you is: How do you intend to make laws against something that is already illegal?

It's kinda like the politians here... "I am going to make tougher laws on drugs and guns." Translation: I am going to make repressive laws on something that is already illegal that only effects lawabiding citizens. I think the big problem is, no one sees through thier words and votes them in.

No kiddin' man.

Politicians should quit trying to make things harder for me and just start putting more bad guys in the ground.

They really need better gun control in Canada, esp. not handing out guns to suspicious people.
No-one's "handing out guns" to anybody. American entrepeneurs, acting in the best interests of their wallets, and not in the best interests of human beings, are dumping illegal weapons onto our streets - weapons our pinheaded young people think they need/are cool, due to the relentless torrents of US-produced cultural imports that we allow to be seen and heard.

Duh.

If titties are too much for the sensibilities of American television viewers, I put it to you that 50 Cent, Freddy Kreuger, and Dirty Harry are all too much for the sensibilities of Canadians. Fuck American stylized ultra-violence and gore, give us the naked titties.

And shut down that fucking border while we're at it. Goddamn capitalist rat-bastard gun-running American arseholes, selling misery, death and worse.

Keep your fucking gun-culture south of the border, American idiots.

No-one's "handing out guns" to anybody. American entrepeneurs, acting in the best interests of their wallets, and not in the best interests of human beings, are dumping illegal weapons onto our streets - weapons our pinheaded young people think they need/are cool, due to the relentless torrents of US-produced cultural imports that we allow to be seen and heard.

Duh.

If titties are too much for the sensibilities of American television viewers, I put it to you that 50 Cent, Freddy Kreuger, and Dirty Harry are all too much for the sensibilities of Canadians. Fuck American stylized ultra-violence and gore, give us the naked titties.

And shut down that fucking border while we're at it. Goddamn capitalist rat-bastard gun-running American arseholes, selling misery, death and worse.

Keep your fucking gun-culture south of the border, American idiots.


Ya know, I posted an article earlier about Inuits , in Canada, trying to lower crime by teaching hunting. With Guns.

Martin's rants on ban's, buybacks, and confiscations have INCREASED Canada's "Gun Culture".

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051225.wxguns26/BNStory/National/


That is the "Gun Culture". What you're ranting about is the "criminal culture" that has nothing to do w/ legal firearm ownership.

But, as always, it's just easier to blame the US.

No-one's "handing out guns" to anybody. American entrepeneurs, acting in the best interests of their wallets, and not in the best interests of human beings, are dumping illegal weapons onto our streets -Ah... tell me how a legal business can sell someting that is illegal - much less "dump" it onto the streets of another country? If you are refering to criminals as "entrepreneurs", I could always say the same about the good Canadian folks running Bud down here (which they trade for guns btw....) How about sticking to the facts, eh?
And shut down that fucking border while we're at it. Goddamn capitalist rat-bastard gun-running American arseholes, selling misery, death and worse.Nice Flame. Adds wonderful intellectual reinforcement to your nonsensical "dumping illegal weapons" rant. Keep your fucking gun-culture south of the border,Try going North to the YT - they have a pretty good "gun culture" there too. American idiots.Another Nice Flame. :rolleyes:

Ya know, I posted an article earlier about Inuits , in Canada, trying to lower crime by teaching hunting. With Guns.
Just to be picky...Inuit is already plural:)

Ah... tell me how a legal business can sell someting that is illegal - much less "dump" it onto the streets of another country? If you are refering to criminals as "entrepreneurs", I could always say the same about the good Canadian folks running Bud down here (which they trade for guns btw....) How about sticking to the facts, eh?
All capitalists are criminals, whether or not their activities are 'legal' or otherwise. I am in fact, referring to American 'criminals' who certainly ARE dumping weapons onto our streets.

Dope doesn't kill anybody. Illegal weapons do. You Americans, as always, get the better end of the deal, so it's hardly surprising you're not complaining too loudly. We, on the other hand, are stuck with the shit end - as usual.

I live about five blocks from where this went down, so sue me if I'm surly and not in a mood to accomodate suburban gun-nut apologists and squirrel-shooting country bumpkins.

Just to be picky...Inuit is already plural:)

Thank you. I'll remember that for future reference.

All capitalists are criminals, whether or not their activities are 'legal' or otherwise. I am in fact, referring to American 'criminals' who certainly ARE dumping weapons onto our streets.

Dope doesn't kill anybody. Illegal weapons do. You Americans, as always, get the better end of the deal, so it's hardly surprising you're not complaining too loudly. We, on the other hand, are stuck with the shit end - as usual.

I live about five blocks from where this went down, so sue me if I'm surly and not in a mood to accomodate suburban gun-nut apologists and squirrel-shooting country bumpkins.

This is actually entertaining. Come on DW, rant some more.

All capitalists are criminals, whether or not their activities are 'legal' or otherwise. Ah. Why debate a fool? (Except to make him more foolish... good enough for me...) I am in fact, referring to American 'criminals' who certainly ARE dumping weapons onto our streets. I see. "dumping" implies the diliberate undercutting of a current market by providing a good at less than cost. Doesn't sound very "Capitalist" or "Entreprenurial" to me.
Dope doesn't kill anybody. Illegal weapons do. Nope. Criminals with guns kill people. But huess what? I gan get more Weed-per-dollar by trading a gun than I can for a cash buy. I wonder why that is? I guess Canadian Criminals like guns too eh? You Americans, as always, get the better end of the deal, so it's hardly surprising you're not complaining too loudly. We, on the other hand, are stuck with the shit end - as usual.As usual? Explain. The rant should be humorous.
I live about five blocks from where this went down, so sue me if I'm surly and not in a mood to accomodate suburban gun-nut apologists and squirrel-shooting country bumpkins.Way to go. You've just insulted Sinuhue. I hope you're proud. :rolleyes:

Way to go. You've just insulted Sinuhue. I hope you're proud. :rolleyes:

So much for being "progressive". eh?

"dumping" implies the diliberate undercutting of a current market by providing a good at less than cost. Doesn't sound very "Capitalist" or "Entreprenurial" to me.Go ahead and play word games while people are getting killed. How very clever of you.Way to go. You've just insulted Sinuhue. I hope you're proud.Tough shit. I don't care who you happen to think I'm insulting.

Frankly, I don't give a damn for any of you, today. Not you, or your pedantic reindeer games. Go polish your gun barrels.

Sorry guys, I'm not about to take offense...I think Dobbs has made it clear that she's in a bad mood, and as such (having been in many a bad mood myself) I'm not going to quibble on little points. We all just lose our tempers sometimes.

Go ahead and play word games while people are getting killed. How very clever of you.Tough shit. I don't care who you happen to think I'm insulting.

Frankly, I don't give a damn for any of you, today. Not you, or your pedantic reindeer games. Go polish your gun barrels.

And yet US crime has decreased even though ownership has increased. According to you then, Capitalism is causing drops in crime.

Sorry guys, I'm not about to take offense...I think Dobbs has made it clear that she's in a bad mood, and as such (having been in many a bad mood myself) I'm not going to quibble on little points. We all just lose our tempers sometimes.
Yes, but being in a bad mood and losing one's temper is no excuse for bad data. When I get pissed, the things I say/find out are supportable. What Dobbs has said is not supportable in any way. If Canadian Criminals are aquiring guns from the US, it's not because US Criminals are crossing the border to sell them guns - it's because there is a two-way illegal traffic of prohibited items wanted on both sides. The US Criminals want Weed to sell, and the Canadian Criminals want guns to terrorize the oterwise unarmed Urban Canadian population. (Notice that this criminal activity rarely happens to "country bumpkins"...)

But, you know, Dobbs is partially right. Nobody is doing enough to curb the crime problem created and exported by Urban Centers Crowd enough self centered people into a small space and they start to kill each other off like rats. That's all they know, so of course they are going to project their psychosis on the non-urban world. :rolleyes:

...Just think how much better a place it'd be if people didn't breed at all.

Thats crossed my mind on more than one occasion, but eugenics creeps me out and I'm no more willing to tell people they can't breed than to tell them they have to.

Foiled again by my respect for civil liberties! Damn my hippy parents! ;)

Y The US Criminals want Weed to sell, and the Canadian Criminals want guns to terrorize the oterwise unarmed Urban Canadian population. (Notice that this criminal activity rarely happens to "country bumpkins"...)

But, you know, Dobbs is partially right. Nobody is doing enough to curb the crime problem created and exported by Urban Centers Crowd enough self centered people into a small space and they start to kill each other off like rats. That's all they know, so of course they are going to project their psychosis on the non-urban world. :rolleyes:

I would like to know which category I fit in. I was raised in the Suburbs of Chicago and was less supportive of firearms than now but am now becoming a "country bumpkin" but have never shot a squirrel (possum yes, squirrel no).

No-one's "handing out guns" to anybody. American entrepeneurs, acting in the best interests of their wallets, and not in the best interests of human beings, are dumping illegal weapons onto our streets - weapons our pinheaded young people think they need/are cool, due to the relentless torrents of US-produced cultural imports that we allow to be seen and heard.

Duh.

If titties are too much for the sensibilities of American television viewers, I put it to you that 50 Cent, Freddy Kreuger, and Dirty Harry are all too much for the sensibilities of Canadians. Fuck American stylized ultra-violence and gore, give us the naked titties.

And shut down that fucking border while we're at it. Goddamn capitalist rat-bastard gun-running American arseholes, selling misery, death and worse.

Keep your fucking gun-culture south of the border, American idiots.

I'm sorry, but this is starting to piss me off more than a little. Yeah, I understand America is the big boy and that means everyone gets to rip on it, but I'm really fucking sick of being accused of things because some six-toed televangelist in the deep south opened his mouth and started vomiting shit.

I've got no problem with tits on tv, or violence, or knitting workshops. I've got a big problem with people cherry picking what human rights they're interested in. What is this "allow" you keep talking about? You allow people to see or hear things? You're losing the moral high ground here, Dobbs. Take your ad hominem attacks, your blame shifting, and your knee-jerk reactions home. You're not adding to the discussion, you're just polluting the air, you know, like 50 cent or Jerry Fallwell.

And yet US crime has decreased even though ownership has increased. According to you then, Capitalism is causing drops in crime.
And the main reason that crime has decreased in the US? Could it be record rates of incarceration?

The number of people in US prisons and jails rose again last year to 2,267,787 people, continuing a trend of increasing incarceration rates that has gone on unabated for more than two decades. According to a report released in October by the US Department of Justice, by the end of 2004 there were 1.4 million prisoners in federal and state facilities and 700,000 in local jails.

One out every 109 US males was incarcerated in a state or federal prison in 2004, reflecting a 32 percent increase in the number of male prisoners since 1995. In 1980 the number in prison or jail in the US totaled 503,000. By 1990 this had doubled to over a million and by mid-year 2002 it doubled again, to surpass the 2 million mark.

The historical increase in the US prison population has been out of proportion to the general rise in population. In 2004 the US incarceration rate hit 486 sentenced inmates (those with sentences exceeding one year) per 100,000 residents, up 18 percent from 411 per 100,000 a decade ago, according to the government report.

Though US crime rates have actually fallen in recent years, a law-and-order atmosphere and more jail time and longer sentences under mandatory minimums and three-strikes laws are keeping the prisons filled. The prison system is a key component of political repression, designed to keep a lid on growing social tensions resulting from unprecedented levels of social inequality in the US.

The US has the highest prison population in the world, both in percentage of its population and in sheer numbers of people kept behind bars. Only China, with a population more than four times that of the US, even comes close, with 1.5 million prisoners. The overall US incarceration rate—724 per 100,000—is 25 percent higher than that of any other nation in the world, according to the Sentencing Project, a prisoner advocacy group.

What say you now Mercutio?

I live about five blocks from where this went down, so sue me if I'm surly and not in a mood to accomodate suburban gun-nut apologists and squirrel-shooting country bumpkins.

And I live in Chicago. I'm an urban gun nut and I'm not an apologist of any kind. I own guns because I like them and because you just can't depend on the police to get where they need to be, especially if you happen to live in a neighborhood with too dark a complexion. I live in the real world, a world where bad people have guns and use them to do bad things, a world in which the best response you can hope for from the police in an emergency is about 120 seconds, which is enough time to end up dead or start getting raped. I'm sorry if I'm not willing to give up the security of my family because you and yours are finally starting to run into the same problems the rest of the world has had to deal with for decades. You built the welfare state, and people are still poor, there are still criminals, and people who don't look enough like the majority are still marginalized. But it can't be a failure on your part. No, its the big bad Americans with our guns (fewer per capita than Canada, btw) and our scary black rappers and our movies with blood.

What say you now Mercutio?


I say your little attempts at stats mongering w/ an obvious cutnpaste in response to a sarcastic post means you have way too much time on your hands.

CH,

Gun crime is going down here in the US! Even Pittsburgh has seen a drop in the gun violance area.

Why do you think that is? It isn't because of gun control that's for sure.

I would like to know which category I fit in. I was raised in the Suburbs of Chicago and was less supportive of firearms than now but am now becoming a "country bumpkin" but have never shot a squirrel (possum yes, squirrel no).
You are a "Suburban Gun Nut Apologist" becoming a healthy "Country Bumpkin". Welcome to the club. ;)

I say your little attempts at stats mongering w/ an obvious cutnpaste in response to a sarcastic post means you have way too much time on your hands.
You call it "stats mongering" and I call it shooting down your argument.

Your feeble reply suggests that you have nothing more substantive to back your previous claim. :D

What say you now Mercutio?This is what I say...
And the main reason that crime has decreased in the US? Could it be record rates of incarceration?That sure helps - though there are people who would rather see predators out on the streets...

Though US crime rates have actually fallen in recent years, I thought it was lower because of increast rates of incarceration and keeping recidivists off the street... Oh well, maybe there are other factors too - of which civilian CCW is one. a law-and-order atmosphere and more jail time and longer sentences under mandatory minimums and three-strikes laws are keeping the prisons filled. The prison system is a key component of political repression, designed to keep a lid on growing social tensions resulting from unprecedented levels of social inequality in the US.Ah. keeping criminals off the streets is repression. Got it. See point #1.
The US has the highest prison population in the world, both in percentage of its population and in sheer numbers of people kept behind bars. Only China, with a population more than four times that of the US, even comes close, with 1.5 million prisoners. The overall US incarceration rate—724 per 100,000—is 25 percent higher than that of any other nation in the world, according to the Sentencing Project, Edit: Of course, A lot more of those "any other countries" tend to "dissappear" their criminal element too... [b]a prisoner advocacy group.A criminal advocacy group doesn't like jails. Who'd a thunk it?

But OK. Get rid of Jails and let me shoot the bastards when the come to try to prey on me and mine. Saves the State the cost of trying and feeding them.

You call it "stats mongering" and I call it shooting down your argument.

Your feeble reply suggests that you have nothing more substantive to back your previous claim. :D


The fact that I wasn't making an arguement (that whole sarcasm thing I mentioned) and this trollish reply only substantiates my "claim" that you have too much time on your hands.

Even Pittsburgh has seen a drop in the gun violance area.
Proof. :D

This is what I say...
That sure helps - though there are people who would rather see predators out on the streets...

I thought it was lower because of increast rates of incarceration and keeping recidivists off the street... Oh well, maybe there are other factors too - of which civilian CCW is one.Ah. keeping criminals off the streets is repression. Got it. See point #1.
A criminal advocacy group doesn't like jails. Who'd a thunk it?

But OK. Get rid of Jails and let me shoot the bastards when the come to try to prey on me and mine. Saves the State the cost of trying and feeding them.

But remember, defending yourself is also wrong. We're supposed to let the Gov't be able to search our houses w/o warrants and confiscate any property they determine is "harmful" and to protect us from criminals by closing all the prisons and putting cameras in our homes.

Note just for CH: Since you seem unable to grasp the difference, this is *sarcasm*, not a "claim".

Proof. :D

HAHA! Its called Fox 53, WPXI, KDKA, and WTAE.

The fact that I wasn't making an arguement (that whole sarcasm thing I mentioned) and this trollish reply only substantiates my "claim" that you have too much time on your hands.
At least Syniks made an attempt at rationalizing the argument. Your twice "trollish" replies about "too much time" on my hands leads me to believe that you are lost for any substantive reply. :eek:

HAHA! Its called Fox 53, WPXI, KDKA, and WTAE.
Well thats nice. You are the one that loves to ask for proof, and I am just returning the same.

Now go get some hardcore numbers or quit wasting my time.

Well thats nice. You are the one that loves to ask for proof, and I am just returning the same.

Now go get some hardcore numbers or quit wasting my time.

As opposed to you ignoring other figures that have been presented to you time and again that you have blantantly ignored? Sorry CH, I'm not about to play that game.

At least Syniks made an attempt at rationalizing the argument. Your twice "trollish" replies about "too much time" on my hands leads me to believe that you are lost for any substantive reply. :eek:

A "substantive reply" to what? A cutnpaste response to a sarcastic comment?

Does me not bothering in digging into details to "refute" it "prove" anything? You "believe" anything you want CH, it really doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

As opposed to you ignoring other figures that have been presented to you time and again that you have blantantly ignored? Sorry CH, I'm not about to play that game.

Oh, but since you didn't provide a "substantive reply", you must be "lost". CH can now "believe" he's won the non-arguement.

You're all just wasting time. I'm not gonna waste my time on any of you anymore. Why don't you start another one of those 'here's-a-photo-of-my-favourite-penile-enhancement-fetish/totem' threads, so you can all get hard thinking about pointless gun ownership and bragging rights.

I'm sure we're all in desperate need of another one of those.

Seeya later, depraved gun-culture adherents. Maybe I'll be back in the New Year. Maybe not.

Either way, I'm sick of you all.

*slams door*

You're all just wasting time. I'm not gonna waste my time on any of you anymore. Why don't you start another one of those 'here's-a-photo-of-my-favourite-penile-enhancement-fetish/totem' threads, so you can all get hard thinking about pointless gun ownership and bragging rights.

I'm sure we're all in desperate need of another one of those.

Seeya later, depraved gun-culture adherents. Maybe I'll be back in the New Year. Maybe not.

Either way, I'm sick of you all.

*slams door*

:fluffle:

You're all just wasting time. I'm not gonna waste my time on any of you anymore. Why don't you start another one of those 'here's-a-photo-of-my-favourite-penile-enhancement-fetish/totem' threads, so you can all get hard thinking about pointless automobile ownership and bragging rights.http://wwwheels.com/cars/A2100576.jpg
http://wwwheels.com/cars/A2114628.jpg
http://wwwheels.com/cars/A2110549.jpg
I'm sure we're all in desperate need of another one of those.

Seeya later, depraved motorheads. Maybe I'll be back in the New Year. Maybe not.

Either way, I'm sick of you all.

*slams door*BuhBye. I'm so glad you want to treat me like a Criminal because of my choice of sporting goods.

However, I'll chalk up your abuse to being both afraid and unable to defend yourself from wanton acts of criminality and predation. How nice of your government to do that to a woman. :rolleyes:

As opposed to you ignoring other figures that have been presented to you time and again that you have blantantly ignored? Sorry CH, I'm not about to play that game.
When asked for proof, you come back with your usual hollow rhetoric. Just go away....please. :D

When asked for proof, you come back with your usual hollow rhetoric. Just go away....please. :D

Only after you begin to recognize stats that knock you out of the water and that has happened on more than one occassion.

Only after you begin to recognize stats that knock you out of the water and that has happened on more than one occassion.
Sorry,but I am not going to play your cat and mouse game. :D

BTW, rape in Pittsburgh is up 27% (first half of 2005) over last year.

Sorry,but I am not going to play your cat and mouse game. :D

BTW, rape in Pittsburgh is up 27% (first half of 2005) over last year.

And if ya notice, I never said anything about Rape so you lose on that account.

And if ya notice, I never said anything about Rape
I know. :D

I put a little cheese in the trap and.......ZAP!! :)

I am sure Pittsburgh is a nice city and all (a friend of mine lives there), but maybe ya really should take a look at Philadelphia?

Just because the gun crime is down in Pittsburgh doesn't mean that applies to the whole country where the murder rate was up more than 2% nationally.

I am sure Pittsburgh is a nice city and all (a friend of mine lives there), but maybe ya really should take a look at Philadelphia?

1) I live in the suburbs of Pittsburgh. I know what the city is like and I wouldn't want to live inside it.

2) I attend a university that is 1.5 hours from Philly. *shudders* The stories I hear from there is enough to make my hair curl.

Just because the gun crime is down in Pittsburgh doesn't mean that applies to the whole country where the murder rate was up more than 2% nationally.

Actually no. According to the FBI, its down.

Actually no. According to the FBI, its down.
Proof. :)

Proof. :)

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48495

The FBI reported that for the first time since 1999, homicides declined last year 5.4 percent in cities with more than 1 million people, and overall, murders fell 3.6 percent nationwide.

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48495
That is last year. The article I was quoting was a comparison of the first 6 months of this year (2005) over the first 6 months of last year (2004).

Back to the research lab for you.

That is last year. The article I was quoting was a comparison of the first 6 months of this year (2005) over the first 6 months of last year (2004).

Back to the research lab for you.
may I point out CH, that this is a tradegy that happened in Canada. your post, #22 (http://www.orange-road.com/img/EveTokimatsuriThumb.jpg) was the first to try to shift it to the US (incidently, it was also your first post on this thread.)

this isn't about the US statistics on violent Crimes. (which is going down, dispite the fact that it was LAST YEARS report.) but the trends in CANADA.

Can you defend the Status Quo in Canada without trying to shovel blame on the US? or are you just trying to cloud the issue?

Yep. You just proved that you do have an intelligence after all :D.

*stops there before he threadjacks*

Aww, no prize? Meanie.:mad: :D

Aww, no prize? Meanie.:mad: :D
*hands you cookies*

Anyway, Toronto is getting very dangerous these days. First of all there's child kidnappings, rape, and murders all in one last year I think, now there's gun violence involving young people, then what's next? car theft?. Like, this is very sad now, Toronto used to be the safest city in Canada, now 'Toronto has lost its innocence'. :(

may I point out CH, that this is a tradegy that happened in Canada.
I am aware of that fact.

your post, #22 (http://www.orange-road.com/img/EveTokimatsuriThumb.jpg)
Cute picture. :)

was the first to try to shift it to the US (incidently, it was also your first post on this thread.)
Actually post # 4 (Canada City) was the first to mention the US connection.

Then my gun friend from the US (Kecibukia) chipped in his two cents in post 5.

this isn't about the US statistics on violent Crimes. (which is going down, dispite the fact that it was LAST YEARS report.) but the trends in CANADA.
Yes and how that relates to increased gun traffic from the US.

Can you defend the Status Quo in Canada without trying to shovel blame on the US? or are you just trying to cloud the issue?
Not trying to cloud the issue at all. Just trying to figure out the root causes.

Several Americans and a wannabe have suggested that it is a failure in Canada's gun control laws, and of course that always leads to the inevitable comparisons.

Please folks, don't confuse CanuckHeaven with CanadaCity...because despite both having Canada in their names, a number of people are reasonably certain that only the former is actually Canadian:D

This thread needs some sanity injected into it. Here's my nickel into the thread.


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8534/1119398509874twoamigos17ep.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8053/762akm6fo.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6599/dsc015572yc5es.jpg


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1091/flagm1withbayonetwallpapermemo.jpg


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8684/image3857187wu.jpg

We Americans love our AKs :D .

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5242/pileofaks8qh.jpg

Please folks, don't confuse CanuckHeaven with CanadaCity...because despite both having Canada in their names, a number of people are reasonably certain that only the former is actually Canadian:D
*CanuckHeaven is reasonably certain that he is indeed a Canadian. :D

As far as Canada City is concerned, I did mention a long time ago that it seemed very strange for him/her to refer to Canadians in the 3rd person ("you Canadians"), among other missteps along the way. :eek:

I am aware of that fact.


Cute picture. :)


Actually post # 4 (Canada City) was the first to mention the US connection.

Then my gun friend from the US (Kecibukia) chipped in his two cents in post 5.

Try again CH. Canada City did not mention a "US Connection", only that Martin had mentioned sueing US companies. I followed w/ a sarcastic comment. You, however, tried to start a debate on recidivism rates.


Yes and how that relates to increased gun traffic from the US.

And the reductions made in Border Patrol.



Not trying to cloud the issue at all. Just trying to figure out the root causes.

Several Americans and a wannabe have suggested that it is a failure in Canada's gun control laws, and of course that always leads to the inevitable comparisons.

Oh, BS. You have tried over and over to push the issue over to a "US is worse and it's all thier fault ,etc" stat mongering contest. Same as usual.

snipwhat about it?

This thread needs some sanity injected into it. Here's my nickel into the thread.

Look children - a poorly hung man.

Look children - a poorly hung man.

I thought you were leaving?

I havent bothered to read most of this thread, but I assume the usual characters are whining about how evil guns are because of this, and how if only they were banned the world would be a utopian paradise?

Obviously, the gun registration program didn't stop gun violence from doubling in Toronto over the past year.

Maybe the problem isn't the guns - it's the criminals and the social conditions that breed crime that are the problem.

One would think that a party which claims to address social welfare problems would have a social welfare solution to crime - but it looks like they would rather blame the inanimate objects than the criminals or the conditions which create them.

I agree with the above. It seems that Toronto suffers the same fate as most of the major cities here in the States, especially the inner city. The poverty, lack of education and very often the lack of motivation to get out of these social conditions lead to the tragedies that we see everyday. Gang wars, drug wars, innocent bystanders very often suffering the bullet. If the social ills of our societies could be solved then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about these tragedies.

I havent bothered to read most of this thread, but I assume the usual characters are whining about how evil guns are because of this, and how if only they were banned the world would be a utopian paradise?

You would be correct :D

*hands you a cookie*

You would be correct :D

*hands you a cookie*

Mmm, cookies! Everyones giving me cookies, you, the NSA... it's cookielicious! :)

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates.

See you Sin, see you CH, Dhomme, TCR et al - I can sense all too well that this sandbox we're all scratching around in is so liberally drenched in American kitty-cat urine that the stench, apart from being overbearing and omnipresent, is beginning to rub off on me.

To my foes, I bid you all a fond fuck you.

So go on and post as many photos of capguns, stapleguns, photon guns, or any other kind of cylindrical device constructed for the express purpose of spewing something-or-other out the far end. Go on and post unending popularity polls. Go on and regale each other with jokes culled from television. Compare sci-fi franchises. Argue the merits of one brand of fizzy brown water versus another.

And do it all, knowing full well you're killing time. Do it knowing you're doing absolutely nothing to improve your lot or the lot of anyone around you. Do it all while Rome burns around you - but always remember to adhere rigorously to the authoritarian hierarchical structures you claim to cherish, oh my foes. Failure to grovel will in future be met with far more than a stern rebuke or a clever witticism from ol' Dobbsy.

You're on your own. And while some of you no doubt will view this egress as some sort of victory, there are those who will realize this community is getting poorer by the minute. Enjoy the circle-jerk while it lasts. Especially you unspeakably dreadful militarists with the major fetish for all things 14th-century and Japanese. And the rest of you with souls like accountants, you're the most cynical of all - and perhaps the single greatest reason why I've made up my mind to split.

No tears, no announcement thread, no kiss-kiss, no bang-bang. And before some dullard types the inevitable,
"don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - consider that door ripped from it's hinges and solidly lobbed squarely at the place where your brains supposedly reside. Lucky for you all it's just about as bereft of encumbrance as the blackened, hollowed-out pit where your hearts are supposed to be, but haven't been for nigh on years - and in some cases, it's doubtful whether you've ever possessed that particular organ at all.

But I digress. Enjoy yourselves in the American sandbox. I'm going to wash this cat urine off and have fun with my life. And now I'll indulge in a little emoticon fun before I go:

xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
:eek: xxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:

Someday. Right up against it, arseholes. You'll see.

I havent bothered to read most of this thread, but I assume the usual characters are whining about how evil guns are because of this, and how if only they were banned the world would be a utopian paradise?
No, if only you bastards would quit selling them it would.

*LAST DIG*

No, if only you bastards would quit selling them it would.

*LAST DIG*

We're not the only ones selling guns.

We're not the only ones selling guns.

The Romanians, Every bike shop in the middle east and Africa, Russians, Bulgarians, Chinese.....

Lots of people sell guns..

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates.

Yeah, because thats what guns are.... to you. Freud would have something to say about ... you.


To my foes, I bid you all a fond fuck you.

And they say the anti-gun crowd isn't compassionate.


And do it all, knowing full well you're killing time.

OH NO someone is MURDERING time! :( :( Let's ban watches!!!

Do it knowing you're doing absolutely nothing to improve your lot or the lot of anyone around you.

Okay.

Just hope you don't think your ranting is any different. This is just a forum, so its hardly unique of any of us here to be wasting time.

And the rest of you with souls like accountants, you're the most cynical of all - and perhaps the single greatest reason why I've made up my mind to split.

I'm flattered!


No tears, no announcement thread, no kiss-kiss, no bang-bang. And before some dullard types the inevitable,
"don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - consider that door ripped from it's hinges and solidly lobbed squarely at the place where your brains supposedly reside.

Is this your idea of a rip-roaring good exit flame? Because really, it sounds like you were waiting a long time for the chance to say something like that, and now that you got the balls to do it I have to admit to being less than impressed.

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates.

See you Sin, see you CH, Dhomme, TCR et al - I can sense all too well that this sandbox we're all scratching around in is so liberally drenched in American kitty-cat urine that the stench, apart from being overbearing and omnipresent, is beginning to rub off on me.

To my foes, I bid you all a fond fuck you.

So go on and post as many photos of capguns, stapleguns, photon guns, or any other kind of cylindrical device constructed for the express purpose of spewing something-or-other out the far end. Go on and post unending popularity polls. Go on and regale each other with jokes culled from television. Compare sci-fi franchises. Argue the merits of one brand of fizzy brown water versus another.

And do it all, knowing full well you're killing time. Do it knowing you're doing absolutely nothing to improve your lot or the lot of anyone around you. Do it all while Rome burns around you - but always remember to adhere rigorously to the authoritarian hierarchical structures you claim to cherish, oh my foes. Failure to grovel will in future be met with far more than a stern rebuke or a clever witticism from ol' Dobbsy.

You're on your own. And while some of you no doubt will view this egress as some sort of victory, there are those who will realize this community is getting poorer by the minute. Enjoy the circle-jerk while it lasts. Especially you unspeakably dreadful militarists with the major fetish for all things 14th-century and Japanese. And the rest of you with souls like accountants, you're the most cynical of all - and perhaps the single greatest reason why I've made up my mind to split.

No tears, no announcement thread, no kiss-kiss, no bang-bang. And before some dullard types the inevitable,
"don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - consider that door ripped from it's hinges and solidly lobbed squarely at the place where your brains supposedly reside. Lucky for you all it's just about as bereft of encumbrance as the blackened, hollowed-out pit where your hearts are supposed to be, but haven't been for nigh on years - and in some cases, it's doubtful whether you've ever possessed that particular organ at all.

But I digress. Enjoy yourselves in the American sandbox. I'm going to wash this cat urine off and have fun with my life. And now I'll indulge in a little emoticon fun before I go:

xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
:eek: xxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:

Someday. Right up against it, arseholes. You'll see.
A bientot, mon ami. :)

Not to quibble, but the unfortunate girl was just that, a girl of fifteen. Not a woman of nineteen as the thread's title states.

Chau Dobbs...and take care. Make sure you take a vacation at some point, once you've been at your job long enough to do so:)

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates.

See you Sin, see you CH, Dhomme, TCR et al - I can sense all too well that this sandbox we're all scratching around in is so liberally drenched in American kitty-cat urine that the stench, apart from being overbearing and omnipresent, is beginning to rub off on me.

To my foes, I bid you all a fond fuck you.

So go on and post as many photos of capguns, stapleguns, photon guns, or any other kind of cylindrical device constructed for the express purpose of spewing something-or-other out the far end. Go on and post unending popularity polls. Go on and regale each other with jokes culled from television. Compare sci-fi franchises. Argue the merits of one brand of fizzy brown water versus another.

And do it all, knowing full well you're killing time. Do it knowing you're doing absolutely nothing to improve your lot or the lot of anyone around you. Do it all while Rome burns around you - but always remember to adhere rigorously to the authoritarian hierarchical structures you claim to cherish, oh my foes. Failure to grovel will in future be met with far more than a stern rebuke or a clever witticism from ol' Dobbsy.

You're on your own. And while some of you no doubt will view this egress as some sort of victory, there are those who will realize this community is getting poorer by the minute. Enjoy the circle-jerk while it lasts. Especially you unspeakably dreadful militarists with the major fetish for all things 14th-century and Japanese. And the rest of you with souls like accountants, you're the most cynical of all - and perhaps the single greatest reason why I've made up my mind to split.

No tears, no announcement thread, no kiss-kiss, no bang-bang. And before some dullard types the inevitable,
"don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - consider that door ripped from it's hinges and solidly lobbed squarely at the place where your brains supposedly reside. Lucky for you all it's just about as bereft of encumbrance as the blackened, hollowed-out pit where your hearts are supposed to be, but haven't been for nigh on years - and in some cases, it's doubtful whether you've ever possessed that particular organ at all.

But I digress. Enjoy yourselves in the American sandbox. I'm going to wash this cat urine off and have fun with my life. And now I'll indulge in a little emoticon fun before I go:

xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
:eek: xxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:

Someday. Right up against it, arseholes. You'll see.


Christ on a bike, how many goodbye-cruel-world posts are you gonna make?

A bientot, mon ami. :)

Canuck, He said circle jerk. :eek:










Who am I standing next to again?













:D

Canuck, He said circle jerk. :eek:
Vous etes un cochon. :cool:

Who am I standing next to again?
Avec tous les autres cochons. :D

Snip

Those are some nice looking rifles there!

Dobbs, It's not the size but in how you use it. Even a Darrenger has stopping power! :D

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates.

See you Sin, see you CH, Dhomme, TCR et al - I can sense all too well that this sandbox we're all scratching around in is so liberally drenched in American kitty-cat urine that the stench, apart from being overbearing and omnipresent, is beginning to rub off on me.

To my foes, I bid you all a fond fuck you.

So go on and post as many photos of capguns, stapleguns, photon guns, or any other kind of cylindrical device constructed for the express purpose of spewing something-or-other out the far end. Go on and post unending popularity polls. Go on and regale each other with jokes culled from television. Compare sci-fi franchises. Argue the merits of one brand of fizzy brown water versus another.

And do it all, knowing full well you're killing time. Do it knowing you're doing absolutely nothing to improve your lot or the lot of anyone around you. Do it all while Rome burns around you - but always remember to adhere rigorously to the authoritarian hierarchical structures you claim to cherish, oh my foes. Failure to grovel will in future be met with far more than a stern rebuke or a clever witticism from ol' Dobbsy.

You're on your own. And while some of you no doubt will view this egress as some sort of victory, there are those who will realize this community is getting poorer by the minute. Enjoy the circle-jerk while it lasts. Especially you unspeakably dreadful militarists with the major fetish for all things 14th-century and Japanese. And the rest of you with souls like accountants, you're the most cynical of all - and perhaps the single greatest reason why I've made up my mind to split.

No tears, no announcement thread, no kiss-kiss, no bang-bang. And before some dullard types the inevitable,
"don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" - consider that door ripped from it's hinges and solidly lobbed squarely at the place where your brains supposedly reside. Lucky for you all it's just about as bereft of encumbrance as the blackened, hollowed-out pit where your hearts are supposed to be, but haven't been for nigh on years - and in some cases, it's doubtful whether you've ever possessed that particular organ at all.

But I digress. Enjoy yourselves in the American sandbox. I'm going to wash this cat urine off and have fun with my life. And now I'll indulge in a little emoticon fun before I go:

xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
:eek: xxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:
xxxxxxxxxx:sniper:

Someday. Right up against it, arseholes. You'll see.

If it makes you feel any better I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you.

If it makes you feel any better I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you.
WOW!! You join the thread for one post and end up making such a profound contribution. I am truly impressed. :rolleyes:

If it makes you feel any better I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you.Asshole.

Those are some nice looking rifles there!

Dobbs, It's not the size but in how you use it. Even a Darrenger has stopping power! :D

Yup. AKs and building them are a hobby of mine.

See you Sin, see you CH, Dhomme, TCR et al - I can sense all too well that this sandbox we're all scratching around in is so liberally drenched in American kitty-cat urine that the stench, apart from being overbearing and omnipresent, is beginning to rub off on me.Bye and take care dude. Come back soon.

Vous etes un cochon. :cool:


Avec tous les autres cochons. :D

I don't speak French man. "Abien tot" and "Putan" are about it.

Yup. AKs and building them are a hobby of mine.ENOUGH!

This is getting off topic! This is a thread about gun violence and how to prevent it, not AK-47 "show and tell" or all those gun avocating BS.

If this BS continues, then I will declare this thread LOCKED!

Geez, "this thread had almost lost its innocence".

Dobbsy..... gone?

:(

Dobbsy..... gone?

:(
Yeah. :(

He left with a bang, not a whimper.

I don't know anymore whether I mentioned it in this thread, or in my TG to Sinuhue, but this is precisely what I was expecting. Photos of phallus surrogates. ... So go on and post as many photos of capguns, stapleguns, photon guns, or any other kind of cylindrical device constructed for the express purpose of spewing something-or-other out the far end....

Looks at above....

Looks at previous post... (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10170716&postcount=188)

:confused: "Cylindrical phallus surrogates" are worthy of reproach but SexCars aren't?
but always remember to adhere rigorously to the authoritarian hierarchical structures you claim to cherish, oh my foes. Failure to grovel will in future be met with far more than a stern rebuke or a clever witticism from ol' Dobbsy.And somehow telling me that I should not be allowed to spend my money as I see fit, so long as I hurt no one is not Authoritarion? I just don't get it.

Alas, angst and irrational anger seem to have overcome yet another "progressive". Oh well. Can't say as I'm too surprised.

Oh, CH... I haven't been a Pig since I stopped working for the Norman PD about 25 years ago. :p

Oh, CH... I haven't been a Pig since I stopped working for the Norman PD about 25 years ago. :p
Nope. Didn't say you were one either. It was directed at the subject in question and it had nothing to do with police or you.

Next time, go for the literal translation (4 legged variety) rather than the slang.

Nope. Didn't say you were one either. It was directed at the subject in question and it had nothing to do with police or you. Next time, go for the literal translation (4 legged variety) rather than the slang.

Oh, I dunno.... "With all the other pigs" seems to be directed at anyone who supports a position contra-Dobbs.

I just refused to take it as the insult you intended. :rolleyes:

Yarrr this thread's been hijacked. I smell Drama a'brewin.

ENOUGH!

This is getting off topic! This is a thread about gun violence and how to prevent it, not AK-47 "show and tell" or all those gun avocating BS.

If this BS continues, then I will declare this thread LOCKED!

Geez, "this thread had almost lost its innocence".

Flashing an Avtomat Kalashnikov at a murderer or rapist is a great way to prevent crime.

Or start putting more bad guys in the ground.

Farewell Dobbs, but never Goodbye. *raises a toast to Dobbs*

Does Canada have a Constitution that give the right to bear arms?

Flashing an Avtomat Kalashnikov at a murderer or rapist is a great way to prevent crime.

Or start putting more bad guys in the ground.

Heh, I bet the look on the face of someone attempting to steal your car as you flash a AK would be pretty funny. Not to mention save your car, and you don't even have to pull the trigger.

Heh, I bet the look on the face of someone attempting to steal your car as you flash a AK would be pretty funny. Not to mention save your car, and you don't even have to pull the trigger.
IIRC from a recent issue of "The Rifleman" discussing NO, precicely that happened to the article's author... A group of thuggish types were looking like they wanted to "acquire" the (soon to evacuate himself's) SUV. They sort of found better things to do when he ran outside with his AK and an AR15 on his back... :D

IIRC from a recent issue of "The Rifleman" discussing NO, precicely that happened to the article's author... A group of thuggish types were looking like they wanted to "acquire" the (soon to evacuate himself's) SUV. They sort of found better things to do when he ran outside with his AK and an AR15 on his back... :D

That is what I was referencing too! Have a cookie!

Flashing an Avtomat Kalashnikov at a murderer or rapist is a great way to prevent crime.

Or start putting more bad guys in the ground.
Dude! This thread is about gun-violence! How does shooting a murderer prevent gun violence? What does rape have to do with guns? :rolleyes:

Oh, I dunno.... "With all the other pigs" seems to be directed at anyone who supports a position contra-Dobbs.

I just refused to take it as the insult you intended. :rolleyes:
Well, you can take it however you wish but I can assure you that you were not included. For some strange reason, I have a certain amount of respect for you, even though I disagree with your passion for guns.

The comment was directed towards ARF for his unnecessary off colour comment, and for all others of his ilk.

Dude! This thread is about gun-violence! How does shooting a murderer prevent gun violence? What does rape have to do with guns? :rolleyes:

Some rapes are done by gunpoint.

That is what I was referencing too! Have a cookie!
TrashCat gets to read all the best magazines...

But I really don't understand what you see in Pr0n.... :p

Some rapes are done by gunpoint.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/trashcat.jpg

Some rapes are STOPPED at clawpoint too...

Dude! This thread is about gun-violence! How does shooting a murderer prevent gun violence? What does rape have to do with guns? :rolleyes:

Perferating a murderer with bullets WOULDN'T have prevented violence?

WTF? Are you doing that to mock me?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/trashcat.jpg

Some rapes are STOPPED at clawpoint too...

HAHA True