NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't get me wrong, the whole issue is about racism, just it's not as justified as everyone (mainly aussies) think. Yes Lebs do stir shit, they can be real pricks when in groups. But so called 'lebs' refers not only to a small part of the lebanese population, but also to the youths of other cultures too. It seems clear to me that there really isn't a problem of ethnicity as it is one of juvenile delinquency. I mean, I could have participated in the 'lebanese counter-attack' (as they put it), being 19 years old and 1/2 Italian (In fact it is strange that I didn't, demographically speaking)

You know I don't really think it is that much about ethnicity as it seems. I mean, actual Lebanese don't make up a huge proportion of the 'troublemaker' population, from experience. Also, it's only the male Lebanese youths who cause this trouble, not the culture itself (The lebanese community actually condemns it and spends a lot of time/money trying unsuccessfully to combat youth delinquency amoungst male lebanese). While it's true young male lebs are trouble makers, this is also true of Russians, Yugoslavians, Arabs, italians, greeks, in fact, just about anyone (Including Aussies) who live in Sydney's southwest. Also, please note that Leb is quite often a term one would use to refer to any of these cultures ('Lebo' is more indicative of how someone dresses and behaves than where they were actually from).

Yeah, actually, I think I agree with you. Admittedly, my only real encounters with culture have been having to deal with mobs of loud-mouthed, abusive young men who feel the need to yell obscenties at my friends and I (especially the girls). The only older "leb" I've really met is the guy who runs one of the local pizza joints, and he's a nice guy, if a little eccentric. So yeah, I think you're right.

Yeah, actually, I think I agree with you. Admittedly, my only real encounters with culture have been having to deal with mobs of loud-mouthed, abusive young men who feel the need to yell obscenties at my friends and I (especially the girls). The only older "leb" I've really met is the guy who runs one of the local pizza joints, and he's a nice guy, if a little eccentric. So yeah, I think you're right.

Exactly, as far as everyone is concerned, though, those loudmouths were lebs. In a way they were, as in the colloqiual sense of the term deliberately use to describe those kind of people (even by those people). it is important not to confuse the two though, which is exactly what the Australian media has done, almost certainly in a deliberately to shake things up a bit more. My housemate didn't even know about the "Race-riots" which have been "rocking the nation and shaking the city"(as the headlines put it) until yesterday, when he overheard me and a mate talking about it. (And we live adjacent to the suburb in which the unrest occured). The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion by the media. Doesn't make me any less upset that it happened though...

Exactly, as far as everyone is concerned, though, those loudmouths were lebs. In a way they were, as in the colloqiual sense of the term deliberately use to describe those kind of people (even by those people). it is important not to confuse the two though, which is exactly what the Australian media has done, almost certainly in a deliberately to shake things up a bit more. My housemate didn't even know about the "Race-riots" which have been "rocking the nation and shaking the city"(as the headlines put it) until yesterday, when he overheard me and a mate talking about it. (And we live adjacent to the suburb in which the unrest occured). The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion by the media. Doesn't make me any less upset that it happened though...

Indeed. The media (both ours and foreign media) is making a bigger deal out of it than probably is warranted. What really gets me about all the coverage is that now there are these imfamous text messages springing up all over the place. I hope crap like this doesn't get pulled in Perth. I haven't lived there for a few months now and nothing is likely to happen where I live now, but I would still be very pissed.

Another thing I'd like to know is how "Aussie" became a term for white Australians only? As far as I've ever known, it simply meant "Australian". My Nyoongar and Asian friends are all self-identified "Aussies" and have never raised any objections when I've included them in the term. Is it some kind of Eastern States thing?

Another thing I'd like to know is how "Aussie" became a term for white Australians only? As far as I've ever known, it simply meant "Australian". My Nyoongar and Asian friends are all self-identified "Aussies" and have never raised any objections when I've included them in the term. Is it some kind of Eastern States thing?
No you're right, I'm using it because that is the word the media is using, and it is a convenient way of saying anglo-Australian. I most definately agree though, in my books an Australian is anyone who decides to call this place home. Regardless of race, religion, culture, even visa status. To me, Aussie means Australia is my home. That's all it takes, the desire.

No you're right, I'm using it because that is the word the media is using, and it is a convenient way of saying anglo-Australian. I most definately agree though, in my books an Australian is anyone who decides to call this place home. Regardless of race, religion, culture, even visa status. To me, Aussie means Australia is my home. That's all it takes, the desire.
Also, the only real Eastern-states term for Anglo-Aussie is an exclusively wog/lebo term 'skips' or 'skippy', but that is mainly derogatory.

What about the American Indians? Wait what about the celts in Britain before the Anglo Saxons came? What about the normans, what about the arab expoansion along north afric with islam? Heck what about the poor Eygpitians who got invaded by the Hitites?

You can barely call Aboriginals walking around the bush as a nation nor as a history.

Australia as a nation has been a majority white nation regardless of other factors
Okay, you ARE an ignorant racist.

This is why I think it should be compulsory for people to take Aboriginal studies at uni. :rolleyes:

In reality, sure there was never a unified nation, but there were distinct groups with distinct identities and cultures. They even formed interrelated confederations that came to be called nations later in their history. And if you think Indigenous people were "just walking around the bush" well... I just don't know what to say to that.

People like Yugoslavians, Balkans, Arabs, palestinians, even greeks and Italians will get rolled up as lebs in the event of trouble.

true, my mum is worried about my brother- we have a spanish ancestor somewhere along the line, and my brother has REALLY olive skin. he's really dark, as opposed to me, english skin- pale and sensitive.

true, my mum is worried about my brother- we have a spanish ancestor somewhere along the line, and my brother has REALLY olive skin. he's really dark, as opposed to me, english skin- pale and sensitive.hope thats not your Brother :eek:

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085592,00.jpg

and that guy does not look very "olive" ... does him?

yeah, if you're not carefull with that integretion talk, people'll take it the wrong way and things'll get worse
Oh I don't mean intergration in the "rabbit proof fence" style and all that horrible stuff in the past,heck no. I mean making people feel a part of Australia otherwise groups of people who feel left out feel hard done by and then gangs etc. spring up.

I've taken to wearing a sign that says "Not Lebanese" in case there is any confusion...

God this entire thread is so depressing. I'm ashamed of so many of my fellow countrymen, please understand we are not all like this.

Let's analyse this problem carefully and without idiotic oversentimentality, shall we?

1) A minority of disaffected/stupid Lebanese youth (I haven't met one in Perth yet), bands together and indulges in violence and abuse. Most likely due to a lack of good parental care, a failure to engage with the education system and likely low income levels.

2) People attempt to peacefully protest a recent violent attack of a lifeguard, Neo-Nazi elements such as the Patriotic Youth League get wind of this event and stir up an angry and alcoholic crowd with mindless nationalistic notions and racist slogans.

3) Protest explodes in stupidity as the crowd directs it's anger on TOTALLY FUCKING INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ORIGINAL ATTACK!

4) Lebanese/Ethnic youths (such a moronic word "ethnic") retaliate with more unfocused violence ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FUCKING RIOT!

5) Cycle repeats.

VERDICT

Violence and stupidity wins, common sense and humanity loses.


By the way, I'm getting tired of silly stereotypes about Western Australia. I can understand how some Eastern Staters might be uncomfortable with us driving the economy due to our massive mineral wealth and exports, but be fair, we're not the state that birthed One Nation. ;)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oi, don't lump us all into one group we Melbournians may be part of an Eastern State but we've a hell of a lot more class (and sense) than those damn Sydney siders, don't forget, we're the birth place of the VFL the grand daddy of the AFL . (Hopefully this wont come back and bite me in the ass this weekend).

Of course these idiots don’t represent Australia that would be like saying all Americans support the KKK, but that won’t stop many people consciously or not assuming it.

it seems like immigration from a different ethnic group is just a blanket bad idea - it always leads to trouble

Nope, despite what society and (strangely enough) the lebanese themselves would have you beleive, the vast majority are Christian (guess about 70ish%).

You see, the Lebanese who are currently causing trouble are the Australian born children and grandchildre of Migrants who came over between 40-100 years ago (most of them in the 60's). The initial immigrants who are ranging from 50+ years old now actually came to Australia in great respect of the country. They have no attitude problem at all.

However, the children who have grown up in the poorer areas of Sydney (which aren't really that bad, they're really not 'ghetto's') have developed a subculture of rebellion and general troublemaking. They like to seem more dangerous than they are (like, say, Punks in Britain).
More or less harmless you will find these guys (aged 15-25) engaging in light drug use/ trafficking, truancy, petty theft, and noise pollution in over done Hyundai excels. (Again, they aren't that poor, just..well isolated).

Most of them have masculinity complexes, and all of them are nice guys when they are not with their 'bros'. No matter what the media tells you Sydney doesn't truly have organised gangs as such. Lebo gangs would better be described as large loosely connected youths ranging from greek, italian, arab, lebo, even russians who all get pinned as lebo's. When you bash one up, then all of his mates use it as an excuse to get into a fight and show everyone how 'hard' they are. By this theory, If i have a mate who is lebanese (or knows a few lebos), than I am technically part of a lebo gang.

It really isnt a racial thing on behalf of the lebo's, more of a juvenile delinquent thing. What was racial was the group of 'Aussies' (Whatever the f that is) who were specifically hunting down lebos/arabs, when they should have been hunting juvenile delinquents (they shouldn't have been hunting anyone, but ..you know what i mean).

It is important to note the proportion of wannabe-lebs in these so called gangs as well. Heaps of Aussie kids dress and talk like lebs in areas where the leb thing is widespread. So in short it was racists vs delinquent youths
Yeah. That pretty much sounds like the situation in every country which failed to send the muslim guestworkers back home after their contracts ended. Allthough you seem to downplay it. Juvenile delinquent thing. Right.

Okay, you ARE an ignorant racist.

This is why I think it should be compulsory for people to take Aboriginal studies at uni. :rolleyes:

In reality, sure there was never a unified nation, but there were distinct groups with distinct identities and cultures. They even formed interrelated confederations that came to be called nations later in their history. And if you think Indigenous people were "just walking around the bush" well... I just don't know what to say to that.

Um no. I actually do have a farefully good idea of Aboriginal history. And that is pretty much it. They got here, lived here, in some areas there were areas of semi-permenant habitatation but it was limited. I said there wasnt a nation ebcuase as you said there wasnt. There where hundreds of launaguegs and thousdands of dialects with a huge range of cultures.

There was no unified nation only tribes. Things like the Didigeredoo which is meant to be aboriginal was infact only found in areas of Northen Australia.

Secondly I am not racist. If you read my early posts i mention the people i live with, the people I am friends with and the FAMILY I have. Also as a kid who spent a lot of time holyidaying in the riverland in SA were my mother grew up my siblings and I actually used to play with the Aboriginal kids rather than the white ones becuase we found the Aboriginal kids a lot more accepting, nicer and a lot more fun. When I think of Aboriginals I think of diving in Lake Bonny with other kids. I also had an Aboriginal teacher at school who taught us about Aboriginal culture who used to facisnate me. I didn't say Aboriginals were bad or anything, simply that Australia as a nation has always been a white nation. Theres no point in being PC about fact.

Before white settlement and for much of it Aboriginal tirbes were nomads... they did walk around the bush hunting and gathering, some tribes moved with seasons, especially those on the coast.

AT federation Australia was a British colony and the British were and still are white. Deal with it.

People like you who are to quick to throw labels like racist are part of the problem. People feel afraid to say what they think becuase they think they will be labbeled as racist and be isolated.

As I have said I never judge people by the colour of their skin. I friends and family, not to mentions respected tutors and lectuers, of many ethnicities. I dont care about the colour of skin I care about peoples behaviour.

Please inform what else the Aboriginals did besides hunt and gather.

God this entire thread is so depressing. I'm ashamed of so many of my fellow countrymen, please understand we are not all like this.

Let's analyse this problem carefully and without idiotic oversentimentality, shall we?

1) A minority of disaffected/stupid Lebanese youth (I haven't met one in Perth yet), bands together and indulges in violence and abuse. Most likely due to a lack of good parental care, a failure to engage with the education system and likely low income levels.

2) People attempt to peacefully protest a recent violent attack of a lifeguard, Neo-Nazi elements such as the Patriotic Youth League get wind of this event and stir up an angry and alcoholic crowd with mindless nationalistic notions and racist slogans.

3) Protest explodes in stupidity as the crowd directs it's anger on TOTALLY FUCKING INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ORIGINAL ATTACK!

4) Lebanese/Ethnic youths (such a moronic word "ethnic") retaliate with more unfocused violence ON PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FUCKING RIOT!

5) Cycle repeats.

VERDICT

Violence and stupidity wins, common sense and humanity loses.



Very true, but the size of the events suggests bigger problems. None the less that pretty much sums up the events on the day

Very true, but the size of the events suggests bigger problems. None the less that pretty much sums up the events on the day
And here we are wishing it would end up like Mad Max.

Please inform what else the Aboriginals did besides hunt and gather. Umm, make art? Utterly change the landscape of Australia? Create a massively complex and diverse culture?

Quite frankly I think your idea of what constitutes a civilisation is pretty insulting.

Also, tribes did unify at certain points, break apart at others. The whole of Australia was a gigantic mess of alliances, enemies and pacts for the best part of 40,000+ years

Very true, but the size of the events suggests bigger problems.

Yes, there is a bigger problem at hand here, which is violence, particularly youth violence.

I think the key causes of these problems are:
1) Poor education
2) Stupid welfare initiatives
3) Lack of convergence and respect ON BOTH SIDES - A multicultural society is based on the notion that people must strive for understanding TOGETHER.

hope thats not your Brother :eek:

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085592,00.jpg

and that guy does not look very "olive" ... does him?


thankfully no, but my mother worries it could. dark skin is what many people here connect with foriegners.

Umm, make art? Utterly change the landscape of Australia? Create a massively complex and diverse culture?

Quite frankly I think your idea of what constitutes a civilisation is pretty insulting.

Also, tribes did unify at certain points, break apart at others. The whole of Australia was a gigantic mess of alliances, enemies and pacts for the best part of 40,000+ years



Yes, there is a bigger problem at hand here, which is violence, particularly youth violence.

I think the key causes of these problems are:
1) Poor education
2) Stupid welfare initiatives
3) Lack of convergence and respect ON BOTH SIDES - A multicultural society is based on the notion that people must strive for understanding TOGETHER.


When I was in Perth, (god that was fun) I noticed how many of the aboriginals were treated/looked upon. That was the only unpleasant part of the leave.

OT BTW, there was a tattoo parlor w/ a sign of a tattooed male head. The owner's head/face was also heavily tattooed. Are you familiar w/ it?

One of my good chums, whose family is from Darwin, once told me that Australians have a "famously low tolerance for bullshit."

To me, this seems similar to that fiasco in Paris not long ago.

The difference being that while the French tried to police the issue (I didn't see many Parisians turning out to protest the proestors/rioters), the Australians got some sticks and whacked some people.

I'm not saying that whacking people with sticks is the appropriate course of action, but it makes more sense than standing by and doing nothing.

That's only South Australia.

:D

Oi !!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you mean Queensland
Our Redneck wonderland :D

one thing i have noticed is gangs, usually racially bassed, of youths commiting acts of random violence. whether it be lebonese here in NSW, vietnamese in Adelaide, in my former home state of SA, or others. and when i say youths, i usually mean between 16 and 30. i know 30 seems a high number, but quite a few of these are actually in their mid twenties. i am not a racist or ageist person. i am 24, 25 in a months time, with a fiance who is half chinese. there just seems to be something with some youth that the rest of society owes them something. just the other week, 2 youths, both anglo-australian if i remember, stabbed a radio news presenter who was leaving a work party for no apparent reason. i dont condone what happened at cronulla, but like a few on here i can see why those people did what they did. there are too many of these gangs, no matter what race, that are getting away with too much, and because of this, they think they can keep on doing it. something needs to be done. last weekend was a snap reaction to a problem that has been simmering for quite a while. the ones i really feel sorry for here is the police. they are there to do a job, but if it affects a person from a certain background, you get people kicking up about it. this weekend just passed, and the Maquarie Fields riots are just two examples of police copping shit for something. whilst i disagree with some policies and tactics (speed guns and cameras, since they have been proven faulty), i do acknowledge they have a job to do, and should be allowed to do it.


btw, Kaniba, i agree with you. i am a former south aussie, and they are definatly 5 years and a half an hour behind the eastern states

btw, Kaniba, i agree with you. i am a former south aussie, and they are definatly 5 years and a half an hour behind the eastern states

you say that like it's a bad thing :)

When I was in Perth, (god that was fun) I noticed how many of the aboriginals were treated/looked upon. That was the only unpleasant part of the leave.

OT BTW, there was a tattoo parlor w/ a sign of a tattooed male head. The owner's head/face was also heavily tattooed. Are you familiar w/ it?

I went over to Perth five years ago for the Australian Junior Darts Championships. We went out in the city a few nights and had some run ins with the locals. Once sitting on a bus, one of my friends was threatened by a drunk aboriginal man, who happened to have a rather large knife. Twice, myself and another friend were threatened (once at a bus stop, once outside a store) by a group of drunk aboriginals, with beer bottles. They mistook our laughing at a joke for us laughing at them. Fortunately, darts being the type of sport that it is, we have had plenty of experience with a range of aboriginal people, so we all just took it as an example of drunken behaviour by a group of people. Though, the two admittedly aboriginal people on the trip did say "its no wonder people hate us when we behave like that." My point is that we all were fortunate enough to have had experience with a range of people. Other people, such as tourists coming to Perth, or white kids who go to say, Guildford Grammar, or a school outside Perth may not be so fortunate. If this type of experience is the only one you have with a race, then you may find yourself predisposed to think ill of the race as a whole. Especially if you have never even seen "a sober aboriginal" (which is what one of my friends from a small town in outback Queensland had the gall to say). Its not right, certainly, but it is understandable.

When I was in Perth, (god that was fun) I noticed how many of the aboriginals were treated/looked upon. That was the only unpleasant part of the leave.

OT BTW, there was a tattoo parlor w/ a sign of a tattooed male head. The owner's head/face was also heavily tattooed. Are you familiar w/ it? If you mean the one in Northbridge yes, otherwise sorry no.

I'm well aware of a general cultural mistrust of the aboriginal people here, it's sad but in a way it's kinda understandable. The poverty and criminality of so much urban aboriginal society has weakened people's trust. I posted a thread here quite recently about an attack on my home and family by a gang of Aboriginals.

Yeah. That pretty much sounds like the situation in every country which failed to send the muslim guestworkers back home after their contracts ended. Allthough you seem to downplay it. Juvenile delinquent thing. Right.

No. Thats not what I said at all. My first sentance stated that the majority of Lebs are christian. This has nothing to do with religion, it never has. Some people seem to want to make it about religion, but it's really not at all.

Secondly, on the guestworker garbage you are spouting, they are perhaps the most influential groups in the setting up of a nationwide infra-structure which allowed for the economic high upon which Australia currently rides. Muslims do not cause any more trouble than any other group in Australia, it's just 'okay' to make a big deal about it since we've become so interested in adhering to American socio-political dogma. If you slander an Aboriginal you're a racist, if you slander a muslim you're 'sort-of-discriminating'.

My grandparents came over as 'guestworkers', my mother was born on the boat. My Nonno (thats 'Grandfather' in dirty wogspeak, if your inconceivably narrow perspective prevented you from learning that already) was involved in something known as the 'snowy mountains scheme', (google it). He got paid to come and improve the country, as did many greeks, Lebanese, and others from all over europe and the middle east. The fact of the matter was that 'anglo-australians' weren't qualifying themselves, so anyone with any qualification was paid to come. With out these vocationally skilled individuals Australia would be an imploded welfare state.

You seem to want to boil down the issue to a simple key problem to which you could relate. It just isn't that simple. If you had your way, and there was a govt led 'final solution' eliminating the 'lebanese problem' you would look like a bloody galah when it turned out that there were still juvenile delinquents doing the same thing. Why not eliminate them too? If we just killed all poor people and lebs, then there would be no problems. But why stop there? How about we just wipe all minorities from Australia, or the worlrd?!

Why? Because, you're ideas are absolute nonsense. Sure, it's easy to blame a minority. After all, a lot of people will agree with you. In the end, however, this doesn't fix anything, and actually hastens the deterioration of the situation. I ask you, Von Witzlenben, what are you really after? Someone to blame, and general acceptance, or the truth and hopefully an eventual solution. Think about that for a bit before you answer, do you truly, honestly believe that muslims are the source of all of this trouble?

If I have been agressive, I apologise, I don't take kindly to intolerance (especially that directed at my own family, be it inadvertent ot not). I am not trying to make you look like a fool, I am trying to point out that the true cause of all of this isn't nearly as simple as you are propagating. Race is the issue, but it is not the cause. To tell you the truth, I wish it was that simple, I wish we could say, "Hey you guys! Get out of our country, this is all your fault". What a solution, why didn't we think of that before? A scapegoat only appeases an issue in the most superficial of terms.

Just think about it.

i wonder how many of those 'Aussie Pride' people have a family history here in australia dating back befor WWII? I know i can definatly trace one side of my family back to 1860, from Breslau, Prussia, to Adelaide, South Australia, and probably back further through the lines, but there were quite a few that came out after WWII, just like the 'lebs' and the 'wogs' that are the targets for this.

i wonder how many of those 'Aussie Pride' people have a family history here in australia dating back befor WWII? I know i can definatly trace one side of my family back to 1860, from Breslau, Prussia, to Adelaide, South Australia, and probably back further through the lines, but there were quite a few that came out after WWII, just like the 'lebs' and the 'wogs' that are the targets for this.

The difference being that some people identify themselves as Australians. And some, like those who bashed the lifeguard, who continually harrass the women and girls of this country, who continually decry our traditions and our way of life, don't identify as Australian. They identify as "Leb" or "Wog".

...dark skin is what many people here connect with foriegners.like in almost everywhere else (skin color is the first motor for racism... Accent is the second)

Well, nothing like that's happened in the US yet. Maybe there still is one ivory tower of decency and tolerance in the West. Come to think of it, UK and Canada and many others haven't seen this kind of mob violence involving Muslims and/or Muslim haters either. Seems there are a whole bunch of those Ivory towers in the west.

Hate to say this, but we (the UK) have had rascist riots.

http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradford__district/bradford/riot/

I was there on the day, though fortunately not involved.

There were also riots in Oldham and a few other towns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2001/summer_of_violence/default.stm

And after reading your post, it should be very easy and natural to see why people get sick and tired of xenophobic Islamophobic individuals.


HEAR HEAR

Oi !!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you mean Queensland
Our Redneck wonderland :D

Hahaha...

I was born in South Australia... :p

Hahaha...

I was born in South Australia... :p
Mongrel!
You have lived in nearly all of them(States/Terrortories(SP)).

Mongrel!
You have lived in nearly all of them(States/Terrortories(SP)).

Yeah...South Australia, then moved to Western Australia, then moved to Victoria....only state I haven't visited is Queensland.

it seems like immigration from a different ethnic group is just a blanket bad idea - it always leads to trouble


How narrow a view.

Immigration (and i work in a place that has out of 17 people in the office 9 different nationalities) brings new ideas, Great FOOD, different culture and understandings.

We in Australia make it work.

And just because in every nationality there are f**kwits or a few bad apples. The belief that immigration is bad, shows a huge lack of personal development and narrow mindness that is the root of the problems with immigration as you see it.

In Australia, we work together, eat together, ride public transport together, cheer together (for australia or nations of origin in sport), weep together (for the Tsunami and Katrinia and sport (to the rest of the Aussies you know what i mean) ;) ), we grow together and we live together.

What happened in Sydney is bad from the side of the Anglo Australians and the Lebanese Australian alike, and though people are referring to the Lebanese Australians as Wogs that will probably mean some of the Italian Australian will be affected, along with the Greek Australians. And not to be out done the the Vietnamese Australians, the Chinese Australians, and the Indonesian Australians may also be dragged in, whether by the Lebanese Australians or the Anglo Australians.
Does any one see the trend i am making???

In Australia we do come from many places, and many groups bring their culture, food and beliefs with them (good and bad). We welcome them and as with all the human race there will be some who go bad. Yes the police should have arrested the Lebanese who based the lifeguard. And the Anglo Australians should not have retaliated, but it is only one place in Australia this has happened. And so the multi-cultural enviroment still flurishes everywhere else.

Most of us enjoy the mix Immigration has brought, Those who don't....... Well I am sorry for you.
For all around the world though you may not have the same mix as us, or the same volume. The mentality should be for understanding, acceptance, and willingness to get along.
Please leave all narrow mindness at the door or if you can't then i am truely sorry for you all for all you will miss.

Now i am taking my rose coloured glasses off, and guess what? I still see the Australia and the world in the same light.

Yeah...South Australia, then moved to Western Australia, then moved to Victoria....only state I haven't visited is Queensland.
The Best State.......

The Best State.......

Haha...no...nothing there but tourists and rednecks with mullets ;)

South Australia is like Queensland without the tourists, stonefish, crocodiles and canetoads :D

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.


You have got to be joking with this comment right???

If not, then I'm seriosuly concerned....

Haha...no...nothing there but tourists and rednecks with mullets ;)South Australia is like Queensland without the tourists, stonefish, crocodiles and canetoads :D

Hey, I'm not a tourist, or a redneck...I don't think. And I don't have a mullet in any case...:D

Hey, I'm not a tourist, or a redneck...I don't think. And I don't have a mullet in any case...:D

Then you're just waiting to escape ;)

Then you're just waiting to escape ;)

I'm trying. I'll be working on the Gold Coast next year. God help me.

Hahaha...

I was born in South Australia... :p
i was born there too.... took me 23 1/2 years to get out of the whole, but i did

The difference being that some people identify themselves as Australians. And some, like those who bashed the lifeguard, who continually harrass the women and girls of this country, who continually decry our traditions and our way of life, don't identify as Australian. They identify as "Leb" or "Wog".
the thing is, these guys dont destinguish between Lebs, Wogs (which are, to me, those from southern europe, mainly greeks and from the balkans) and those who concider themselves australian but look like they are from those groups.

<snipp>

I don't know what to say. Thank you I think is the best way to sum it up.

For the past week I have been feeling stupid, ashamed, and ultimately nihilistic. The race riots broke me, I used to be a very proud Australian. I have posted a few times in this thread in a effort to reach out to other Aussies and in some way come to terms with a new racist Australia (both in my mind, and the eyes of the world.

That was my problem, I'd felt like Australia had changed in some integral way. In reality though, nothing is different. There are f-wits everywhere in the world. I don't have to accountable for that sh*t. They are the ones who should be ashamed, not Australia.

For anyone who has lived in Australia, they will know how tolerant (or apathetic) of a place it is. I like that! I've always loved that in my country it's not an issue of acceptance, it's an issue of care- and most people really don't. Mild interest at most.

While it's true that there are a growing number of people who are losing sight of reason in light of the current political world environment, that's all it is. Did you notice how little about race/religion the cause of all this was? It was never about racism, it was about delinquents. However, due to current tensions people made it about race/religion, perhaps to blow off some steam.

The fact is a lot of so called 'lebos' causing trouble aren't even lebanese; they are yugoslavian, greek, italian, palestinian, russian, anglo-aussie (ever heard of wannabe-wogs?). Those who are indeed lebanese, weren't born even there (their parents/grandparents came to Australia in respect of the oppurtunities it offers). Most Lebanese aren't even Muslim! (It is a lesser known fact that the majority of Lebanese-Australians are Christian. Understand that in the mid-20th century the Lebanon these people left was app. 50% Christian).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon#Religious_Population_Statistics

It now seems clear to me that this whole thing is a giant release of govt/media built racial tension. If the 'leb muslims' who are the cause/subject of all of this aren't exclusively lebanese, and aren't usually muslim, then the whole thing is a bit of a diversion of blame.

Is anyone with me, then, in the notion that perhaps the unofficial govt/media muslim demonising played a more significant role in the riots taking place? I mean, there's not even evidence that the individuals who bashed the lifeguards are actually lebanese. If you actually read the article, it was hardly unprovoked.

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17492835-5001021,00.html

But a sector of the public react by protesting against muslims/lebs. Even a casual review of the issue would point the problem at juvenile delinquents. After all, have you ever heard of 30-50 leb trouble makers? If anyone cared to listen they would hear that the lebanese community has condemned youth agression. They would know that the lebanese community funnels immense time and money into reducing delinquency amongst 'at risk' lebanese youth who mainly live in lower class areas. There is clearly not a race-war between 'lebs' and anglo-australians, people want it to be, but it's not. This to me means the true problem isn't "why are muslim lebs assaulting our culture?" and much more to the effect of "why are we so keen to scapegoat middle-easterners/muslims, or more to the point, is it fair?".

Thanks again, Accountopia, for restoring fully my faith in that Australia as a great, free multi-cultral nation.

Haha...no...nothing there but tourists and rednecks with mullets ;)

South Australia is like Queensland without the tourists, stonefish, crocodiles and canetoads :D
*Tries to find some witty comment can't so uses the Generic Convict Reply*

That or you Harboured Nazi's.......

This is the kind of thing I mean. This is not relevant. Its just a stupid off topic comment.

And in response. How about Tobruck?

Gah if you read some of the early posts people were making real comments then it turns into this free for all insult session (which I admit I became part of) becuase people like Santa Barbara and guys like this just say stupid things like these
Tobruk.

Well that is simple you held it we saved your arses and then the South Africans were given the task of defending it and ran all the way to Cairo.

Where funnily enough some of your boys said...
"Back from Cairo so soon?"

This comment caused a fight to break out.

Umm, make art? Utterly change the landscape of Australia? Create a massively complex and diverse culture?

Quite frankly I think your idea of what constitutes a civilisation is pretty insulting.

Also, tribes did unify at certain points, break apart at others. The whole of Australia was a gigantic mess of alliances, enemies and pacts for the best part of 40,000+ years


*sigh*. They had a culture. Which I said. They did not have a civilisation. Most civilisations require permenant habitation and a recognised system of government and law as well as a homeland and some sort of infrastructure. We do not refer to African bush men as having a civiliasation, depsite the fact they are an ancient group but we do acknowledge they have a culture. A big difference. The Aboriginals had no judicary, no law beyond tribal law, no unified leader or system of governemnt beyond tribal law. A culture does not imply civilisation. Otherwise the Kurds would be considered a civilisation. They have a culture and a language but they do not have a civilisation. Same applies to a lot of other groups. Culture does not imply civilisation.

You find it insulting? WTF? Are you aboriginal? I don't think many aboriginals would be insulted. I acknwoledged thier cultures and did in no way infer whites were better by virtue of race. What you really mean is I am a whinny PC with no real political opinoin and probabl haven't spent any time with Aboriginal people I just feel a sense of socialised guilt and so put forward this PC bullshit that is based on reality.

as for this


3) Lack of convergence and respect ON BOTH SIDES - A multicultural society is based on the notion that people must strive for understanding TOGETHER.

Yes as I have previously mentioned, everybody have a sense of idenity that links them to this land regardless of ethnicity. We do not have a multicultral nation, that implies many seperate cultures in one nation, instead we have a society tolerant of most cultural practices that do not directly condradict the law of the land or the existing culture which has been mis correctly labbeled as multiculturalism.

Haha...no...nothing there but tourists and rednecks with mullets ;)

South Australia is like Queensland without the tourists, stonefish, crocodiles and canetoads :D
So do you count Tasmania?

*sigh*. They had a culture. Which I said. They did not have a civilisation. Most civilisations require permenant habitation and a recognised system of government and law as well as a homeland and some sort of infrastructure. We do not refer to African bush men as having a civiliasation, depsite the fact they are an ancient group but we do acknowledge they have a culture. A big difference. The Aboriginals had no judicary, no law beyond tribal law, no unified leader or system of governemnt beyond tribal law. A culture does not imply civilisation. Otherwise the Kurds would be considered a civilisation. They have a culture and a language but they do not have a civilisation. Same applies to a lot of other groups. Culture does not imply civilisation. Actually, most scholars and archeologists have discarded the notion of "civilisation", I assumed you were in the same boat insofar as there are no longer "civilised" and "uncivilised" people, only cultures and societies. I apologise for the confusion.

You find it insulting? WTF? Are you aboriginal? I don't think many aboriginals would be insulted. I acknwoledged thier cultures and did in no way infer whites were better by virtue of race. What you really mean is I am a whinny PC with no real political opinoin and probabl haven't spent any time with Aboriginal people I just feel a sense of socialised guilt and so put forward this PC bullshit that is based on reality. I'd learn something about the internet if I were you Brantor. You don't know me and making insulting postulations about my character is called "flaming", avoid doing it if you can.

BTW, not that it really matters but yes I DO have quite a lot of experience and contact with Aboriginals, having done Teaching Assistance in the city and in rural areas with communities.

Yes as I have previously mentioned, everybody have a sense of idenity that links them to this land regardless of ethnicity. We do not have a multicultral nation, that implies many seperate cultures in one nation, instead we have a society tolerant of most cultural practices that do not directly condradict the law of the land or the existing culture which has been mis correctly labbeled as multiculturalism. From dictionary.com:
multiculturalism

n : the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can co-exist peacefully and equitably in a single country [ant: nationalism]

Seems to be what Australia is doing to me.