NationStates Jolt Archive

Its about time someone posted this

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536841-2,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17536989-2,00.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=75226

Basically

for years Lebanese men have been taunting women at a beach near Cronulla, About a week ago when a couple of lifesavers were bashed word spread about "take back the beach day" in which upto 5000 people turned up, when it turned violent and became a witch hunt. Not long ago a Lebanese gang turned up for revenge smashing cars and stabbing people


I have many thoughts about it but wanted to see what everyone else thought

Psst... For a start, it's spelt "Lebanese". They originate from Lebanon, not Lebonan.

Psst... For a start, it's spelt "Lebanese". They originate from Lebanon, not Lebonan.
*shrugs*
fixed

I am disgusted, dismayed and at least a little shocked..:(

This is sickening.

What the hell is a "ute"?

Webster says it's: "a member of an American Indian people orig. ranging through Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico" and "the Uto-Aztecan language of the Ute people." I doubt those were what they were talking about.

What the hell is a "ute"?


Short for utility vehicle. It's similar to the american pick-up truck.

What the hell is a "ute"?

Webster says it's: "a member of an American Indian people orig. ranging through Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico" and "the Uto-Aztecan language of the Ute people." I doubt those were what they were talking about.
a bit like a pick up truck, I believe ute is short for utility

Short for utility vehicle. It's similar to the american pick-up truck.
snap

Short for utility vehicle. It's similar to the american pick-up truck.

Daft Aussies.

Actually, I invoke Godwin.

These people are no better than Nazi's. Remember Kristallnacht?

I am disgusted, dismayed and at least a little shocked..:(
I have to say im far from shocked sadly it was a matter of time :(

now to see how it escalates

Daft Aussies.

Might seem that way in europe, but they're useful in our country, as travelling from one town to another can be a very long trip through desolate terrain. In a ute, you can carry all sorts of extra supplies much more easily than in a standard car.

Might seem that way in europe, but they're useful in our country, as travelling from one town to another can be a very long trip through desolate terrain. In a ute, you can carry all sorts of extra supplies much more easily than in a standard car.

No, the name is what's daft. I'm sure you antipodes get good use out of your "utes."

Actually, I invoke Godwin.

These people are no better than Nazi's. Remember Kristallnacht?
only this thread is far from over

Does anybody here mind expanding a little on the background of all this? The first post gives more detail on that than any one of those articles. Thanks.

Does anybody here mind expanding a little on the background of all this? The first post gives more detail on that than any one of those articles. Thanks.

Over here, Lebanese, and by extension, middle-eastern men are routinely stereotyped as rapists and gang members. For that matter, so are asians, though this has died down a little in recent years.

Combined with a recent upsurge of xenophobia by "TROO AUSSIES", which has even begun to show itself in day to day government, what with our throw-boat-people-into-prison policy, things are starting to heat up a little.

Ironically, you'll note that the chief instigators behind this violence (aside from the minor incident that kicked it off) are white Australians.

Over here, Lebanese, and by extension, middle-eastern men are routinely stereotyped as rapists and gang members. For that matter, so are asians, though this has died down a little in recent years.

Combined with a recent upsurge of xenophobia by "TROO AUSSIES", which has even begun to show itself in day to day government, what with our throw-boat-people-into-prison policy, things are starting to heat up a little.

Ironically, you'll note that the chief instigators behind this violence (aside from the minor incident that kicked it off) are white Australians.


Yet more evidence iun favor of my theory and Austrailia is just like the Deep South, only with better beaches.

Thanks, Kanabia!

Combined with a recent upsurge of xenophobia by "TROO AUSSIES", which has even begun to show itself in day to day government, what with our throw-boat-people-into-prison policy, things are starting to heat up a little.

That's funny (well, not funny haha, obviously), I always thought it was the Australian government, or even only a few top politicians, that were the ones going overboard with the anti-refugee stance, while the people themselves weren't quite so keen on jumping on the conservative bandwagon. Maybe I just only ever read the more left-leaning commentaries/articles.

As to the event at hand: I didn't quite get the specific beach-related outrage here. OP said girls were bothered on the beach - does that mean there were lewd comments and such, or rather (given that it is said to have come from guys of middle-eastern descent) disdain that they "displayed" themselves indecently? (Okay, after 5.3 seconds of thinking I remembered that many Lebanese are actually Christian, not Muslim. So maybe this is a moot point?)

Austrailia is just like the Deep South, only with better beaches.

:eek: Is it? Damn, you guys have such a good reputation over here in Old Europe!

Yet more evidence iun favor of my theory and Austrailia is just like the Deep South, only with better beaches.

Not all of us...it's like stereotyping all people in the USA as members of the Religious Right. It's just a very vocal minority that are extremists.


That's funny (well, not funny haha, obviously), I always thought it was the Australian government, or even only a few top politicians, that were the ones going overboard with the anti-refugee stance, while the people themselves weren't quite so keen on jumping on the conservative bandwagon. Maybe I just only ever read the more left-leaning commentaries/articles.

Ahh, not so. While we leftists are very vehemently and vocally opposed to the refugee policies, those very same policies are what has kept John Howard winning elections. The majority doesn't see a problem with them, and the chief opposition party also supports them (though elements within the party are strongly opposed). This isn't to say that most Australians would support pogrom-like uprisings, of course. I expect most people will be shocked at what transpired today.


As to the event at hand: I didn't quite get the specific beach-related outrage here. OP said girls were bothered on the beach - does that mean there were lewd comments and such, or rather (given that it is said to have come from guys of middle-eastern descent) disdain that they "displayed" themselves indecently? (Okay, after 5.3 seconds of thinking I remembered that many Lebanese are actually Christian, not Muslim. So maybe this is a moot point?)

It's probably the exact opposite. It was likely sexual harrassment rather than being annoyed at indecent exposure.

:eek: Is it? Damn, you guys have such a good reputation over here in Old Europe!

That's because the ones over there are the ones who managed to escape ;)

Not all of us...it's like stereotyping all people in the USA as members of the Religious Right. It's just a very vocal minority that are extremists.

...No, all of you. Every. Last. One. Men and women, its just a sea of mullets with Skynard as the sound track and burning crosses as far as the eye can see. No sarcasm intended. No sir. None at all....

...No, all of you. Every. Last. One. Men and women, its just a sea of mullets with Skynard as the sound track and burning crosses as far as the eye can see. No sarcasm intended. No sir. None at all....

That's only South Australia.

:D

I'm going to guess that basehed = beaten up?

That's disgusting... Just shows again how many people are just brainless thugs. "They bashed some innocent people, so let's go and beat up some innocent people too. Woo!"

That's only South Australia.

:D

LOL.:D

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.

That's because the ones over there are the ones who managed to escape ;)

Uhhhh - no. Definite no. The ones in Australia are the ones with the good rep, the ones over here are the ones getting shitfaced faster & worse than anybody else at the Munich Oktoberfest. ;)

I'm going to guess that basehed = beaten up?

Yes, Bashed = beaten up.

Uhhhh - no. Definite no. The ones in Australia are the ones with the good rep, the ones over here are the ones getting shitfaced faster & worse than anybody else at the Munich Oktoberfest. ;)

Well, that's what I plan to do when I travel to Europe, so.... :p

I was wondering about when someone would post this.

I'm glad it happened because this along with the french riots show that there are no Ivory Towers of decency and tolerance in the west.

Today was the first day that I was ashamed to have come from Sydney. I now live in Melbourne, but I'm invoking that I lived in New Zealand for the first 14 years of life as a defence.

If you're not contributing anything constructive or at least witty, maybe you should leave.

Hear hear! All in favour of humanity leaving the planet earth on an extended sabbatical, say aye!

Aye!

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.
That statement of yours is very revealing indeed. http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/kratz.gif

But honestly, I'm shocked and appalled and can only say "What the fuck's goin' on, mates?"

That's only South Australia.

:D

And Tasmania. And Queensland. :D

In all seriousness, it's not most Australians doing this, just these relatively few fuckwits.

I'm suprised at what's happened in Sydney. Here in Texas, we consider Australia to be our southern cousin: laid-back, mellow, friendly, decent. I always thought it was one of the more tolerant of nations, but I suppose there's ignorance everywhere, right? I just hope you fellas can being those fools to justice. Hooligans, indeed...

Von Witzleben: "It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims."

You've got to be kidding me, boyo. Have you ever known any Muslims? Have you ever known anyone who wasn't like you? I'll tell you this: I live in one of the most diverse cities on Earth, and the Muslims here are decent people trying to make something of themselves--no terrorist f.ckwits here. When all people are included in society, terrorism becomes a crime against terrorists, not just the faceless "them". Imagine that!

That's only South Australia.

:D
Oi :p

Von Witzleben: "It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims."

You've got to be kidding me, boyo. Have you ever known any Muslims? Have you ever known anyone who wasn't like you? I'll tell you this: I live in one of the most diverse cities on Earth, and the Muslims here are decent people trying to make something of themselves--no terrorist f.ckwits here. When all people are included in society, terrorism becomes a crime against terrorists, not just the faceless "them". Imagine that!
It not that he thinks they are terrorists, but here on our beaches, Bikini clad women are everywhere, this becomes a problem when a certain group is offended by the majority and starts to harrass them, a week ago it turned violent when the minority beat up some life guards. It was all the minorities fault, yet the authorities did nothing about it. This has caused the majority to respond in the worst possible way.

To all the Aussies out there. What do you think of the recent race riots in Sydney?

Personally I dont condone them, but I can understand them. I know this sounds corny but I am not racist... I live with a half Korean, I have Indian faimly, most of my friends in year 12 where from Asia... Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia and one of my closest freinds was from the UAE (United Arab Emirates). I also had a few aquitances via a freind from Kuwait, all nice guys who I got on well with.

However I can understand where this violence has come from. The first racism I ever witnessed was in fact being called a "fucking skip"* by some dickhead whose group of friends used to pick on mine, culminating in an event where they pulled a knife on us and threatened to slit our throats for telling them to fuck off after they tried to itimidate us.

I come from an area where there isn't a very strong ethnic element so I can only imagine the tensions in areas with high levels.

I am not going to beat around the bush. I think that the lebanese, the wogs or whatever you want to call them are responsible for a lot of this. I know that they probably got shit when they were young and have to live in a slight siege mentality becuase of Australian society but I know that when ever I see a group of "wogs"... and they do indentify themselves as wogs... as black gangs in America indenitfy themselves as "Niggas"... I exepect trouble. When groups of these young men from certain cultural backgrounds get together they just seem to want trouble.

Even taking a glance at them seems enough to draw bullshit... "what you loooking at" "hey mate whats your fucking problem you want something" and shit like that.

I know that this is partially the result of bad immigration practices and an often unforgiving and xenophpbic nation but they dont help anyone by acting like idiots. I know they probably have had a bad time from racists in thier past or people not accepting them but the answer isnt forming groups and acting tough.

I know I already probably sound like a bigot but to be honest I dont really care. I know I dont judge people by the colour of the skin or by thier religion, I judge them by thier behaviour.

This problem is probably over blown in terms of the level of gang violence and I expect the majority of people from lebanese of whatever backgrounds dislike the gangs as much as anyone else but to people really expect Australia to be tolerant.

The ABC reposting of the issue seemed to focus on how "unAustralian" the race riots where. What? Australia had a white only policy until 1972, we deported thousands of Chinese immigrants at federation, we had effective slavery in the queensland sugar can fields until the Islanders used where deported, we had massive race riots on the gold fields were Chinese gold diggers were attacked not for being bad but for being hardworking. Aboriginals only got the federal vote in 1967. We have had the Hansonites, we have had racial tensions stirred up over the boat people travesty where Howard manipulated bigot elements in society for political purposes.

Of course we have also had a largely peaceful racial history, partially becuase we have only allowed white people in for much of our history. I know Australias are however generally tolerant, but it is tolerance on certain conditions, that immigrants learn the language, adopt our culture and act a little humbly.

The constant political correctness we recieve from institutions like the ABC doesnt reflect the true nature of Australian society.

I have had discussions along these vague guidlines at uni with a Lebanese tutor and a class of many ethnicities. Oddly enough my viewpoints were most recoginesed by those who were "ethnic" and most of my fights were between me and anglos who wanted to believe in the PC ideals. However i noticed that that there where few anglos who spoke apart from the PC ones, indicating a silent majority whose views are need to complete a picture.

This is part of the problem. People feel they are not allowed to talk about matters of race and when thigns happen it builds up inside them and so a little thing can cuase massive outburts of hate like this.

Multicultralism is a farce. Australians do not want a myriad of cultures, we want a myraid of people with the same culture and every policy we have is designed at re-enforcing the will of the majority. (On this matter I reccomend people read White Nation: Fantasies of White Supremacy in a Multicultural Society by Ghassan Hage).


Anyway my post has been a bit eratic but thats how my thoughts have played out on this. Aussies please comment on this, this is a matter that is probably very important for a positive future and we have to be willing to speak honestly about how we feel to each others faces if we want a future together. Also be assured that I am not a white supremist and I honestly believe Australia is far better off with a mixed racial population, providing people can be honest with each other and share their beliefs openly and positively.

*Skip is short for skippy.. a racist insult against white Australians based on Skippy the bush Kangaroo

Lebanese Muslims have been committing violent acts in the Cronulla area for a long tims, and the police did nothing. Interestingly, our Dear Leader, Morris Iemma is also the Member for Lakemba, which has the largest Lebanese muslim concentration in Australia. Of course that would have nothing to do with the government's inaction against them.

A few judicious arrests could have stopped this long ago.

The problem is not people bringing their cultures here, the problems in immigration are twofold, firstly, people bringing values contrary to our own here, and the government subsidising it. Immigrants in a "multicultural" on welfare are simply the worst of both worlds, they impose a burden, yet have no loyalty, nor identification with Australia.

I think the answer is moving towards building a society that everyone accepts and works for. A culture we all identify with. Taking traditional Australian elements and evolving them with new cultural ideas.

Once again I belive multicultralism is a farce and I'm dead set against it. Who believes a policy that focus's on differences is going to create harmony. We need a policy that puts forward everyone being Australian and valued regardless of cultural or ethnic background. Rather than teaching children about what makes people different, teach them what makes us the same.

I have to say everyone has made some excellent points and so far I agree with them 100%.

The race relations issue in Australia is totally different to overseas- the Lebanese/Wogs weren't enslaved for centuries, they came here post WWI and WWII as refugees, and that generation were (and are) welcome and productive members of the Australian community.

Their kids, however, are not.

Brantor's summed up the situation pretty well... an awful lot of Leb kids (male and female) seem to be spoiling for a fight, for no reason.

If I see a large group of Asian teenagers, I'll probably not and say hello on the way past, and will receive the same courtesy from them. Ditto European Australians, and even Polynesians. I've never felt threatened or had racist remarks directed at me from any of the above groups (I'm a white Australian, although I was born in NZ).

However, even looking at a group of Lebanese or wog teenagers is going to get, at the least, a "What the fuck are you looking at???", and suggesting they might like to move to the left or the right a bit so you can get past and go on with your business is likely to be met with "get fucked!". I've seen fights in Brisbane as a result of this sort of thing- Macho guys and dolled up skanks encouraging them- and it needs to stop.

Having said all that, I don't believe in Multiculturalism. By all means keep and cherish your own culture, but in Australia you play by our rules. Don't like it? I'll drive you to the airport myself, to paraphrase the brilliant Aussie Lamb ads from a year or two ago.

I'm also in favour of simply rounding up every person convicted of gang offences, violence, or simply thugs, and deporting them. I know it would never work, but I think a lot of these Lebanese kids in gangs with their "Fully Sick Subwoofa" and hotted up Holden Commodore might change their tune when they're forced onto a an RAAF C-130H, flown to somewhere like Beirut or Sierra Leone, and then left standing on the runway. I know it would never work and it would never happen, but the only way, I think, Australia can continue to grow is to adopt an "Our Way Or The Highway" policy towards multiculturalism... in other words, you're an Australian first, and Lebanese/Vietnamese/English/New Zealand/Kenyan/Whatever second.

(Dons flame-retardent suit and waits for the inevitable backlash)

Please tell me that did not make international news....

Please tell me that did not make international news....

It did.. but if it's any consolation, almost no one will read about it..

It did.. but if it's any consolation, almost no one will read about it..

*sobs*

I don't care if a few people of ethnic appearance did commit a few crimes, it was not cause to brutally bash other innocent people of a similar appearance, or ethnicity, or run around shouting 'No lebs!!!'.

Just because Australia may have a history or tradition of racism does not mean we should continue it. This was a sad occurrence indeed
.

Those young male protesters are just a bunch of drunken punks, who because they ran out (i.e never had any) of valid points to make turned to the race card.

There were violent confrontations between these Anglo/Euro Australians and the police; isn't that enough to show how criminal they are? They didn't think through about the issues at all, they just wanted room at the beach (which was the fuse of the whole issue at first wasn't it)?

Thats an interesting point Roycelandia made. Almost any other group, despite the racism they face at times, and I have seen more racism directed against Asians than other groups, seem to be more amicable towards anglo Australians.

What do you think makes lebanese and some Italian youth so aggro? I dont think it can be put on religion becuase there are many Lebanese Christains and Islamic Malaysians and Indonesians.

jianggoun and mimblo I am not saying the riots were not criminal or that those involved should not be ashamed, rather that I can understand their viewpoint.

And mimblo its not the crimes that are causing all the trouble... its more the attitude some youth groups have and the way they act

Also on Roycelandia's other point about being Australian first I agree. I am not saying people need to forget the past or lose all of thier cultural idenity but rather that people see it as an added bonus to thier Australian identity

And mimblo its not the crimes that are causing all the trouble... its more the attitude some youth groups have and the way they act



I know its the underlying racial tension/ blatent blind hatred that is the cause for this violence, however as sparks for 'power kegs' go this was a pretty piss poor one.

Thats an interesting point Roycelandia made. Almost any other group, despite the racism they face at times, and I have seen more racism directed against Asians than other groups, seem to be more amicable towards anglo Australians.

What do you think makes lebanese and some Italian youth so aggro? I dont think it can be put on religion becuase there are many Lebanese Christains and Islamic Malaysians and Indonesians.

jianggoun and mimblo I am not saying the riots were not criminal or that those involved should not be ashamed, rather that I can understand their viewpoint.

And mimblo its not the crimes that are causing all the trouble... its more the attitude some youth groups have and the way they act

Also on Roycelandia's other point about being Australian first I agree. I am not saying people need to forget the past or lose all of thier cultural idenity but rather that people see it as an added bonus to thier Australian identity

Multiculturalism requires, and what people forget, is a willingness by both sides to embrace each others culture, on the immigrant side, 'when in rome, do as the romans do" and for the country, take on the positive aspects of that particular culture, and create a univeral Australian indentity based on the positive aspects of all cultures that make up the country.

update

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17549789-2,00.html

middle eastern gangs have responded by smashing anything they can find with assorted weapons

also reports of a shooting

Actually, I invoke Godwin.

These people are no better than Nazi's. Remember Kristallnacht?

*nods*

I'm just waiting for the Australian Parliament to burn down now, leading to the blame of anyone who does not have white skin.

There was one fat git who was going on about "OUR LAND"

Nah, originally, it was aborigine land.

It would be rather amusing to see aborigines beating up fat gits like him while shouting and screaming "OUR LAND!"

Beat up the fat git! Kick his blubber! Kick it! Harder! Kick it!

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.

And after reading your post, it should be very easy and natural to see why people get sick and tired of xenophobic Islamophobic individuals.

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.

Are they even Muslims? The news reports I've read didn't mention religion just that they were Lebanese or Mid-Eastern. And if I'm not wrong, there's a sizeable Lebanese Christian population in Sydney.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Look, if an Anglo gets into a fight with some guy about something (say, someone calls his girlfriend a skank), and the two guys are a bit drunk and decide to have a fistfight, then it's one on one (usually). If someone gets the crap beaten out of them, that should be the end of it, and the beaten party will have learnt the wisdom of not saying unpleasant things about other people's girlfriends/not getting into fights with people bigger than them.

Of course, once you get the Lebs and Wogs involved, it's a whole different ball game.

A colleague of mine used to be a bouncer at a Gold Coast nightclub, and has lost count of the number of times he refused entry to a lebanese patron because they were drunk (not for racist reasons- these guys were really, really drunk), and suddenly carloads of Lebs- this guy's brothers, cousins, mates, in-laws etc would show up later looking to bash the bouncers for not letting their drunk friend into a nightclub!

I'd like to say that people like this are a minority, but in my experience, they aren't. I can count on one hand the number of Wog males I've met aged between 18-30 who weren't aggro, rude, and extremely intimidating as a result.

It sounds like horrible racism, but as many Australians (of all ethnicities) will tell you, it's a statement of fact- for some reason, young male Lebanese Australians have a tendency to be violent thugs.

I'm sorry, Wogs?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458662

I'm sorry, Wogs?

Term for people of Middle Eastern or South European descent.

Term for people of Middle Eastern or South European descent.

How friendly.. and inclusive.

Ah guys, guys, guys.

First of all it wasn't a "bunch of drunkards" it was 5000 of them. And it is just a little part of Australia that was willing to riot. Imagine how many people feel the same way, that didn't turn up?

And the people that say, "Oh look Lebanese people are crims they should be arrested, who cares?" I say, look at the stats of criminals overall in Australia.

What percentage are ethnic minorities? A drop in the ocean. Why should we be focusing on apparent "Lebanese" (I say apparent because many are born in Australia) when the rates of Anglo-Aussie crime are huge?

I've been writing in about 17 different forums about this issue and my fingers hurt, so i'll stop now ;)

Ahem.

Where to start ? I am a western Sydney native myself. Born and bred in Bankstown. I grew up within 50 metres of what is now the Villawood Detention Centre.

I am old enough to remember some of the first Lebanese moving in to Lakemba, where my Aunt used to live. I also remember the first Lebanese moving in to Punchbowl, where my grandmother used to live.

The only Lebanese people any of my family have ever had problems with were 1> a crazy old guy who used to wander around Lakemba shouting abuse ( not in English ) at any women not wearing traditional moslem dress 2> the drug dealer who moved in to my grandmother's street - and who was chased out of Punchbowl by the Lebanese community themselves ( okay, the molotov cocktail in his garage was extreme but how many of us have thought about torching some bastard who we know has set up a speed lab ) and yes
3> groups of young drunken Lebanese dickheads with too much testosterone / machismo, no manners, no respect for women, who want to pick a fight with anyone they consider "Aussie".

If last weekend proved anything, it is that young drunken violent racist dickheads with no respect for women come in all colours.

*sobs*

I don't care if a few people of ethnic appearance did commit a few crimes, it was not cause to brutally bash other innocent people of a similar appearance, or ethnicity, or run around shouting 'No lebs!!!'.

Just because Australia may have a history or tradition of racism does not mean we should continue it. This was a sad occurrence indeed
.
The fucked up thing is that John Howard denied that Australia is a racist country. Yeah, 5000 racists turned up at Cronulla, how many more wanted to?

Also, there was NO reason why this should have been turned into a race issue at all. So some Arab teenagers bashed a lifesaver, punish them. When white kids do anything, do we feel the need to broadcast their race and take revenge? No we don't.

Some of the attitudes and language used in this thread are really disappointing. Urgh.

Oh and the Patriotic Youth League were there egging the rioters on. Losers. Oh and I'd just like to know just how you tell if someone's a "Leb." I mean my brother gets asked if he's Arabic all the time, and well, we're Indian. I've seen the words "Leb", "wog", "Arab", "Middle-easterm" and "Mediterranean" used interchangeably during these events, showing just how stupid this racism is. They don't even know just who they're vilifying!

Oi :p

I'm allowed to pick on South Australians seeing how I was born there. :D

The fucked up thing is that John Howard denied that Australia is a racist country. Yeah, 5000 racists turned up at Cronulla, how many more wanted to?

Also, there was NO reason why this should have been turned into a race issue at all. So some Arab teenagers bashed a lifesaver, punish them. When white kids do anything, do we feel the need to broadcast their race and take revenge? No we don't.

Some of the attitudes and language used in this thread are really disappointing. Urgh.

Oh and the Patriotic Youth League were there egging the rioters on. Losers. Oh and I'd just like to know just how you tell if someone's a "Leb." I mean my brother gets asked if he's Arabic all the time, and well, we're Indian. I've seen the words "Leb", "wog", "Arab", "Middle-easterm" and "Mediterranean" used interchangeably during these events, showing just how stupid this racism is. They don't even know just who they're vilifying!

Uh oh, I hear sirons. Looks like somebody called the Wambulance:rolleyes:

. So some Arab teenagers bashed a lifesaver, punish them.

they weren't teenagers and they didn't get punished. if police arrest them they are called racist. magistrates let them back on to the streets to they can rape and harrass women and kill people.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s1006742.htm it wasn't just one minor incedent. and what about Marubra and places like that? some woman got pashed in the face with a baseball bat.

http://cpds.apana.org.au/Teams/Archive/ethnic_violence.htm

There is really not much to say here. Other than it's those *ucking neo-nazis up to no good.

There is really not much to say here. Other than it's those *ucking neo-nazis up to no good.

no one was a neo nazi

no one was a neo nazi
Um, I beg to differ. The Patriotic Youth League, who had a presence at the riots are linked to several neo-nazi groups.

That said, it would be ignorant to foist all of this on the Nazi's. It is also symtomatic of a larger racism beneath the durface in Australia. :(

I AM TOTALLY FOR THESE SO CALLED "RACE RIOTS", NOT BECUSE I AM A BIGGIT OR ANY THING, BUT THESE LEBANESE GUYS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED. AND IT DIDN'T START WITH THEM HARASSING WOMEN AT THE BEACH AND ATTAKEING LIFEGAURDS, BUT WITH THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS MOVEING IN ON THE AUSSIE GANG TERRITORY. THE BEACH BELONGED TO SOME GANG DOWN THERE AND THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS HAVE TRYED TO TAKE IT BEFORE, SO IT WAS JSUT A MATTER OF TIME BE FORE THIS HAPPEND. AND THIS WILL JUST ESCOLATE, BECUSE THE AUSSIE GANGS DOWN HAVE JOIND, OR AT LEAST MOST OF THEM, SO SOON THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS WILL JOIN TOGETHER AND THERE WILL BE A BIG RACE/GANG WAR DOWN THERE.:sniper:

I AM TOTALLY FOR THESE SO CALLED "RACE RIOTS", NOT BECUSE I AM A BIGGIT OR ANY THING, BUT THESE LEBANESE GUYS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED. AND IT DIDN'T START WITH THEM HARASSING WOMEN AT THE BEACH AND ATTAKEING LIFEGAURDS, BUT WITH THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS MOVEING IN ON THE AUSSIE GANG TERRITORY. THE BEACH BELONGED TO SOME GANG DOWN THERE AND THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS HAVE TRYED TO TAKE IT BEFORE, SO IT WAS JSUT A MATTER OF TIME BE FORE THIS HAPPEND. AND THIS WILL JUST ESCOLATE, BECUSE THE AUSSIE GANGS DOWN HAVE JOIND, OR AT LEAST MOST OF THEM, SO SOON THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS WILL JOIN TOGETHER AND THERE WILL BE A BIG RACE/GANG WAR DOWN THERE.:sniper:
I hope you get caught in the crossfire. :rolleyes:

I AM TOTALLY FOR THESE SO CALLED "RACE RIOTS", NOT BECUSE I AM A BIGGIT OR ANY THING, BUT THESE LEBANESE GUYS GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED. AND IT DIDN'T START WITH THEM HARASSING WOMEN AT THE BEACH AND ATTAKEING LIFEGAURDS, BUT WITH THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS MOVEING IN ON THE AUSSIE GANG TERRITORY. THE BEACH BELONGED TO SOME GANG DOWN THERE AND THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS HAVE TRYED TO TAKE IT BEFORE, SO IT WAS JSUT A MATTER OF TIME BE FORE THIS HAPPEND. AND THIS WILL JUST ESCOLATE, BECUSE THE AUSSIE GANGS DOWN HAVE JOIND, OR AT LEAST MOST OF THEM, SO SOON THE MIDDLE EASTERN GANGS WILL JOIN TOGETHER AND THERE WILL BE A BIG RACE/GANG WAR DOWN THERE.:sniper:

Blooey, is that you?

I hope you get caught in the crossfire. :rolleyes:

Yeah, seriously. I might give him a push.

Yeah, seriously. I might give him a push.
Now that's not nice.

Say sorry.

Now that's not nice.

Say sorry.

No fucking way. I'm serious --- I wouldn't mind pushing shit like that into pissfire.

No fucking way. I'm serious --- I wouldn't mind pushing shit like that into pissfire.
*hands Pot some soap* Wash your mouth out young man :p

*hands Pot some soap* Wash your mouth out young man :p

*beats you with a gum wrapper*

NEVAR!!!

No fucking way. I'm serious --- I wouldn't mind pushing shit like that into pissfire.

So? He may be a shit bag, but you have no right to threaten violence over his political views.

Everyone is equally entitled, no matter how perverted you see them

Please tell me that did not make international news....If you check the World Newspapers at the Library... you will see that most have reported the Sydney explosion of racism ... with pictures.

From now on... the 2 most powerful kind of images (in my sub-conscience) about Australia are ... Sydney Olympics and ...Sydney Racism.

Crap written by someone who can't find the caps lock key

Why did your parents have to have sex?

Um, I beg to differ. The Patriotic Youth League, who had a presence at the riots are linked to several neo-nazi groups.

oh ok sorry. didn't know.

Why did your parents have to have sex?

Lets be civil here. All our parents had sex because they wanted to have nice babies to sell to the russian drug czars.

racism, xenophobia, paranoia.

That about sum it up?

racism, xenophobia, paranoia.

That about sum it up?

fear, anger, hate

racism, xenophobia, paranoia.

That about sum it up?

Sounds like a song by REM.

I think the racial aspect of the situation has been grossly overstated. Certainly there were racists involved, but 90% of it was mob mentality. Not meaning to be sterotypical here, but the average person involved in that was probably ~20, slightly drunk, unemployed and thuggish. It was just an excuse for a fight.

I think the racial aspect of the situation has been grossly overstated. Certainly there were racists involved, but 90% of it was mob mentality. Not meaning to be sterotypical here, but the average person involved in that was probably ~20, slightly drunk, unemployed and thuggish. It was just an excuse for a fight.

Yeah. Young, thuggish, male Sydneysiders are usually happy for any excuse to get into a fight, regardless of ethnicity.

"SYDNEY erupted in a second night of racial violence last night as Middle Eastern mobs fired shots into the air, attacked women and smashed shops around Cronulla" http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/armed-gangs-on-rampage/2005/12/12/1134236005902.html

This is a reoccuring event in multi-cultral western nations such as France and now Australia. Says something about multicultralism doesnt it?

And notice how only Western nations form multicultral societies while nations in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East consist of homogeneous populations. Perhaps we have something to learn from these foreign nations.

The problem is that Western and Muslim cultures are nearly incompatible. I don't even need to mention Theo van Gogh, Salman Rushdie, or the Danish newspaper staff currently fearing for their lives for daring to draw Mohammad (though I just did. oops). European nations in particular are having to deal with maintaining their identity amid waves of Arab immigrants, who don't place very much value on the right to free speech. Notice that when people question why these immigrants aren't assimilating into European culture, they are shouted down as "Islamophobic". Western governments may just give this all a fatalistic shrug, but their failure to adress these legitimate concerns are now giving rise to a very unsavory element (Le Pen, anyone?).

The problem is that Western and Muslim cultures are nearly incompatible. I don't even need to mention Theo van Gogh, Salman Rushdie, or the Danish newspaper staff currently fearing for their lives for daring to draw Mohammad (though I just did. oops). European nations in particular are having to deal with maintaining their identity amid waves of Arab immigrants, who don't place very much value on the right to free speech. Notice that when people question why these immigrants aren't assimilating into European culture, they are shouted down as "Islamophobic". Western governments may just give this all a fatalistic shrug, but their failure to adress these legitimate concerns are now giving rise to a very unsavory element (Le Pen, anyone?).

Again, are all the Lebanese rioting Muslims?

This is a reoccuring event in multi-cultral western nations such as France and now Australia. Says something about multicultralism doesnt it?

This is a recurring event in industrialized western nations such as France and now Australia. Says something about industrialization doesn't it? No. Nor does it say anything about 'multiculturalism.'


And notice how only Western nations form multicultral societies while nations in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East consist of homogeneous populations. Perhaps we have something to learn from these foreign nations.

Yes, because nations in the Middle East are beacons of peace and stability and we should model our society after them. Brilliant.

It is also symtomatic of a larger racism beneath the durface in Australia. :(
Agreed, racist muslems who dont respect the Australian way of life

This is a reoccuring event in multi-cultral western nations such as France and now Australia. Says something about multicultralism doesnt it?


Sure does, didnt you know people with completely different values can all live together in harmony :p

Agreed, racist muslems who dont respect the Australian way of life

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085592,00.jpg

So basically, what you're saying is, that's you in the picture wearing the camo hat and a grimace of hate, and that its the guy getting attacked who's at fault for not respecting your way of life?

Blaming the "muslems" for a riot in which muslims are targetted with mob violence is like blaming a rape victim.

You know, its people like you that remind me of how Australia originates from a bunch of criminals.

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085592,00.jpg

So basically, what you're saying is, that's you in the picture wearing the camo hat and a grimace of hate, and that its the guy getting attacked who's at fault for not respecting your way of life?

You know, its people like you that remind me of how Australia originates from a bunch of criminals.
you really dont get it do you? I dont condone this behaviour but have you really thought about why 5000 odd people have just snapped. These attacks however wrong are not unprovoked. You are only seeing the symptoms not the underlying problem. You need to wake up and think about things before you speak.


Do you really believe people should get away with the violence/ harrasment and rape, because it is their belief?

You know, its people like you that remind me of how Australia originates from a bunch of criminals.
now who is being racist? hypocrite :rolleyes:

you really dont get it do you? I dont condone this behaviour but have you really thought about why 5000 odd people have just snapped.

Well, it must be because whoever they attacked, DESERVED it, right?

These attacks however wrong are not unprovoked. You are only seeing the symptoms not the underlying problem. You need to wake up and think about things before you speak.

Oh OK, and the underlying problem is "muslems." Yeah, I get it. Those durn muslems and not respecting your cherished Australian way of life... of mob violence.


Do you really believe people should get away with the violence/ harrasment and rape, because it is their belief?

No. I never said I did. Do you really believe the women the mob attacked were guilty of rape?

Now who is being racist? hypocrite

Hmm, nope, it's still you being racist. Australia DOES originate from British criminals. That's the truth, not racism, particularly as "Australian" is not a race.

Try again, this time using your brain.

Hmm, nope, it's still you being racist. Australia DOES originate from British criminals. That's the truth, not racism, particularly as "Australian" is not a race.

I agree with your other points, but I feel that I should point out that the vast majority of Australians do not descend from convicts.

I agree with your other points, but I feel that I should point out that the vast majority of Australians do not descend from convicts.

So noted, but all i was saying was Australia itself descends from being a prison colony. And sometimes, it still resembles one.

So noted, but all i was saying was Australia itself descends from being a prison colony. And sometimes, it still resembles one.

Yeah. It's fucking disgusting.

You know, most people i've spoken to are proud of "getting our own back" against the "fucking lebs"?

I am sick to the core. I hate this country.

So noted, but all i was saying was Australia itself descends from being a prison colony. And sometimes, it still resembles one.
In what way does Australia still resemble a prison colony?

As to the whole event itself, it's just small minorities perpetrating the violence. They should all be rounded up (white or not, muslim or not) and put in prison for 20 years. More needs to be done by all Australian sub-communities to argue for the virtues of Australia, and where we lack virtues, to work to create them, as opposed to the easier option of just rioting.

Edit: Or, as in the previous poster's case, just being annoyed about it. Yes its a black mark on our country that this happens and such people exist here, but we can improve it.

I am an australian and personally the riots make me ashamed but what else this thread has made me realise is how ignorant other people are of australians, most people didn't know what a ute was but i know what a lorry is and a pick-up and i know a lorry isn't the same as a ute and how does it resemble a prison colony still, wtf? u people make me sick

So noted, but all i was saying was Australia itself descends from being a prison colony. And sometimes, it still resembles one.

You should do some actual research on Australia before making such a broad statement about a country. South Australia was founded without any convicts, it was set up by free people in search of a better life.

Its amazing how people focus on this aspect of Australia, even though the British only did this because they couldn't send the convicts to America anymore after they (the Americans) rose up against British rule. America isn't refered to as a "Prison Colony" whenever some racist American starts on about white superiority.

What happen in Sydney is a discrace and should be condemed by everyone, BUT in condeming this do not fall into the trap of being judgemental of ALL Australians. For if you do, then you too become just as guilty as those commiting the riots of hate and fear against fellow humans.

I think they went way over the top but none of it would have happened if they had sorted the problem out in the first place.

So? He may be a shit bag, but you have no right to threaten violence over his political views.

Everyone is equally entitled, no matter how perverted you see them

Notice that I didn't exactly threaten. Ah, yes, freedom of speech. :D

Yeah. It's fucking disgusting.

You know, most people i've spoken to are proud of "getting our own back" against the "fucking lebs"?

I am sick to the core. I hate this country.
Don't bother coming here the 'Bloody Maori' are taking all the land back.:mad:

"SYDNEY erupted in a second night of racial violence last night as Middle Eastern mobs fired shots into the air, attacked women and smashed shops around Cronulla" http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/armed-gangs-on-rampage/2005/12/12/1134236005902.html

This is a reoccuring event in multi-cultral western nations such as France and now Australia. Says something about multicultralism doesnt it?

And notice how only Western nations form multicultral societies while nations in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East consist of homogeneous populations. Perhaps we have something to learn from these foreign nations.
I'd just like to point out that most countries in Africa and Asia (the Middle East is actually in Asia/Africa) aren't and never have been monocultures. :rolleyes:

This stuff makes me sick. What a world.

I'd just like to point out that most countries in Africa and Asia (the Middle East is actually in Asia/Africa) aren't and never have been monocultures. :rolleyes:

This stuff makes me sick. What a world.

Too bad there's not more people like us, eh?

Hm, that might become boring. Wait... What am I saying? It'd kick ass.

Of course, once you get the Lebs and Wogs involved, it's a whole different ball game.

Wow, you really are a well-intergrated member of society.


I can count on one hand the number of Wog males I've met aged between 18-30 who weren't aggro, rude, and extremely intimidating as a result.

As a result of what? Being a 'Wog'?


It sounds like horrible racism,

You do listen to what you're saying then?

Good. Maybe you'll realise you how repulsive you are thinking and sounding and reflect.

I'd just like to point out that most countries in Africa and Asia (the Middle East is actually in Asia/Africa) aren't and never have been monocultures. :rolleyes:

This stuff makes me sick. What a world.
But they always use Military force at some stage or a Feudal system.......

But they always use Military force at some stage or a Feudal system.......
Eh? I was just retorting to the suggestion that these nations are monocultures. You know, that those evil brownies have the right to say who gets into their countries but poor Western countries don'r have a say. Or something...

Eh? I was just retorting to the suggestion that these nations are monocultures. You know, that those evil brownies have the right to say who gets into their countries but poor Western countries don'r have a say. Or something...
Ofay.

I was saying the muslim hordes swept into africa and implanted their seed into the bellies of africans and now we have a mix of spicey dishes and Gangaweed gangs in Somalia.
*Unsure*

Well, it must be because whoever they attacked, DESERVED it, right? do you even read the thread before posting? I never implied they did.



Oh OK, and the underlying problem is "muslems." Yeah, I get it. Those durn muslems and not respecting your cherished Australian way of life... of mob violence.

point_conception-indian-summer-fca-.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/findcale/point_conception-indian-summer-fca-.jpg)
this is an example of acceptable dress at a beach in Australia
can you tell me how long this woman would last in a muslim country before she was raped? Or do you believe in oppressing women too?

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Please use URL tags, not IMG tags, for large images. [/modedit]


No. I never said I did. Do you really believe the women the mob attacked were guilty of rape?

the picture you are refering to was male but anyway, if you actually read anything ive written or maybe its that you are having trouble understanding it, you would see that I am against these mobs from both sides. Yet if you have done any reaseach you would know that a couple of years ago there was a string of gang rapes by men of "middle eastern appearence" who taunted their victims by calling them Aussie sluts, this gang wasnt prosecuted. while It still isnt moral to start attacking innocent people for their ethnicity, there have been event such as these for years, the authorities have done nothing. which is where the blame should lie, but when the authorities fail for so long mob mentality develops. Sad but true


Hmm, nope, it's still you being racist. Australia DOES originate from British criminals. That's the truth, not racism, particularly as "Australian" is not a race.
false, as Kanabia has mentioned SA (where im from) was founded by free settlers. Australia is very multicutural however the majority of the population are of European decent but we are far from a British penal colony

Try again, this time using your brain.
Try again, this time using your brain and some facts.
-edit-
By the way grow up and get over the spelling mistake what are you in Primary School?

Served with the Irish army on peacekeeping duties in the Leb and visited Austrailia on several ocassions, I really cannot see any comparisons between the Lebanese in the mid east and the Aussie/lebanese.Actualy have friends from both countries from alot of different backgrounds and the only conclusion I can reach is that if the aussie/lebs are causing trouble it is limited to a few violent thugs and not repersentitive of the aussie/leb community as a whole.As for white racisim it did seem to be pretty endemic down under ,but then again it was not so long ago that Austrailia was virtualy an aparthid state.Its seems if its not the Abo's its the Wogs or the Paddies or god forbid the Yanks.Maybe some people are just born to not get along with people of different cultures/race.

As a result of what? Being a 'Wog'?


Just so you know "Wog" is an accepted term, there is actually a movie called "the wogboy" it us primarily used to describe someone of Italian or Greek decent. Just like we call New Zealanders, Kiwis it isnt defamatory.

Just so you know "Wog" is an accepted term, there is actually a movie called "the wogboy" it us primarily used to describe someone of Italian or Greek decent. Just like we call New Zealanders, Kiwis it isnt defamatory.
Western Oriental Gentleman, WOG.

Western Oriental Gentleman, WOG.
The majority of which are Italian or Greek. Its a moot point.

OK, Let's make a few things clear for the non-australians

1) Wog(s) are those eurasians that do not have white skin of northern europeans or the yellow skin of the asians... ie the arabs, the mediterrians, the indians, etc etc... The notion that wog stands for Western/Worthy/Wily Oriental Gentleman or Worker Of Government is a furfy. There is no definitive proof where the term "wog" came from.

2) The main reason these riots have broken out can be summed up in one word: Respect. Or more to the point the lack of it. A certain group of individuals cannot respect the australian way of life. These people continue thier cultural traditions and beliefs which conflict with the established culture of the nation in which they are now living or have been born into from immigrant parantage.

3) For a long time now australian media has been covering stories of those of different cultural backgrounds disrespecting the Australian way of life (Assults, Basic Crime, Selling drugs, Abduction/Rapes). While these are not limited to one cultural group or ethnic minority, certain groups have shown no remorse or regrets for things such as forcing 13 year old girls into a car at knife point and then taking them to a location where they can be assulted and raped by one or more persons, and infact boast and brag about doing so.

4) The State Government (of which Sydney is a part of) draws a lot of its votes from working class and from ethnic minority groups (becuase the opposition party is more geared towards the middle and upper class voter). As someone pointed out earlier, the State premiers electorate surrounds the area where one of the groups (those of the ethnic minority) comes from. So what actions the premier does will affect his number of votes in the next state election.

5) The flashpoint was one group that travels from another part of the city to a beach which is populated by a different and more established culture. This visiting group proceeds to abuse and harrass those of the other group. This leads to a confrontation that sees 2 lifeguards (volunteers who watch for people in trouble at the beach) bashed for trying to break up the fight that was occurring. This makes national news and there is outrage in the established community. The backlash arrives in the form of rioting and revenge attack after revenge attack that now have world attention.

I will not pass judgement on either side of these riots. But what I will say is if you don't like the country and the values that the majority of the population want, then go to another country that is more to your liking. That especially goes for that poster from Melbourne who says she hates the country in which she lives in and is over 1000 kilometers away from sydney and has no clue as to what has led up to these events. Guessing from her hatred of australians of anglo decent, is from an ethnic background herself, and therefore would have a biased viewpiont.

Well, it's pretty obvious that the people who do this (on both sides) are dickheads who would do well to sit in jail for a while.

The "Australia First" party is heavily involved in this, so it is a racist agenda. There were also attempts to attack Mosques, although the original attackers on the lifeguards my have been Lebanese Christians or other. So again, an indicator that this is about racism, and the sort of climate that anti-terror campaigns have caused.
http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/cronulla.html

this is an example of acceptable dress at a beach in Australia
can you tell me how long this woman would last in a muslim country before she was raped? Or do you believe in oppressing women too?
Please don't tell me you actually believe this. There are undoubtedly countries and areas in which this would not be okay.
But do you know what a great fashion industry Pakistan has? With Bikini models and everything?
What about Miss Lebanon (http://www.missworld.tv/bio/bio.sps?iBiographyID=51869)?
Fact of the matter is that the Islamic community here has no interest in outlawing Australian beach fashion, and that sort of thing should never even have entered this discussion.

Yet if you have done any reaseach you would know that a couple of years ago there was a string of gang rapes by men of "middle eastern appearence" who taunted their victims by calling them Aussie sluts, this gang wasnt prosecuted.
It was, but that's another matter.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/08/1078594295482.html

Has'nt Australia suffered from a racist uncurrent in its society throughout its history, does it not share the colonial heritage that leaves a legacy of racial intolerence, wether its Australia, South Africa, NZ or the US the similarity in White thinking is similar. I do have a number of aussie mates of either Anglo-Saxon or Lebanese descent (both muslims and Maronite christians), both accept that there are barriers, cultural or otherwise, that has led to this impasse on both sides. Australian society as a whole needs to face the fact that there is a problem in regards to race relations and seek a solution for it while immigrants need to accept the fact that there needs to be a degree of assimilation into the wider society, accepting its norms and values, what you do, speak or believe in behind closed doors is down to the individual.

Well, it must be because whoever they attacked, DESERVED it, right?



Oh OK, and the underlying problem is "muslems." Yeah, I get it. Those durn muslems and not respecting your cherished Australian way of life... of mob violence.



No. I never said I did. Do you really believe the women the mob attacked were guilty of rape?



Hmm, nope, it's still you being racist. Australia DOES originate from British criminals. That's the truth, not racism, particularly as "Australian" is not a race.

Try again, this time using your brain.


Hey frucktard America was a prisony colony for the British too. Australia was settled becuase after the American indepdance war the British couldnt send thier crims to America any more.

Furthemore very few Australians have convict heritage. I am 8th generation Australian and there isnt a drop of convict blood in me.

So noted, but all i was saying was Australia itself descends from being a prison colony. And sometimes, it still resembles one.

Uhu. Well at least we didnt have to kill each other to end slavery. Nor have we had race riots as large as LA.

Furthermore Australia is made up from people all over the world, very few have british convict heritage. Most don't. Despite stuff like this we are still one of the most tolerant nations in the world and we arent all racist. Nor are some of the racists racist against anyone but Lebanese.

Paying out Australia doesnt add anything to this conversation and becuase you obviously have no insight to this conversation please leave. This is aimed at Aussies

OK, Let's make a few things clear for the non-australians

1) Wog(s) are those eurasians that do not have white skin of northern europeans or the yellow skin of the asians... ie the arabs, the mediterrians, the indians, etc etc... The notion that wog stands for Western/Worthy/Wily Oriental Gentleman or Worker Of Government is a furfy. There is no definitive proof where the term "wog" came from.

2) The main reason these riots have broken out can be summed up in one word: Respect. Or more to the point the lack of it. A certain group of individuals cannot respect the australian way of life. These people continue thier cultural traditions and beliefs which conflict with the established culture of the nation in which they are now living or have been born into from immigrant parantage.

3) For a long time now australian media has been covering stories of those of different cultural backgrounds disrespecting the Australian way of life (Assults, Basic Crime, Selling drugs, Abduction/Rapes). While these are not limited to one cultural group or ethnic minority, certain groups have shown no remorse or regrets for things such as forcing 13 year old girls into a car at knife point and then taking them to a location where they can be assulted and raped by one or more persons, and infact boast and brag about doing so.

4) The State Government (of which Sydney is a part of) draws a lot of its votes from working class and from ethnic minority groups (becuase the opposition party is more geared towards the middle and upper class voter). As someone pointed out earlier, the State premiers electorate surrounds the area where one of the groups (those of the ethnic minority) comes from. So what actions the premier does will affect his number of votes in the next state election.

5) The flashpoint was one group that travels from another part of the city to a beach which is populated by a different and more established culture. This visiting group proceeds to abuse and harrass those of the other group. This leads to a confrontation that sees 2 lifeguards (volunteers who watch for people in trouble at the beach) bashed for trying to break up the fight that was occurring. This makes national news and there is outrage in the established community. The backlash arrives in the form of rioting and revenge attack after revenge attack that now have world attention.

I will not pass judgement on either side of these riots. But what I will say is if you don't like the country and the values that the majority of the population want, then go to another country that is more to your liking. That especially goes for that poster from Melbourne who says she hates the country in which she lives in and is over 1000 kilometers away from sydney and has no clue as to what has led up to these events. Guessing from her hatred of australians of anglo decent, is from an ethnic background herself, and therefore would have a biased viewpiont.
hurrah

That especially goes for that poster from Melbourne who says she hates the country in which she lives in and is over 1000 kilometers away from sydney and has no clue as to what has led up to these events. Guessing from her hatred of australians of anglo decent, is from an ethnic background herself, and therefore would have a biased viewpiont.

Are you referring to me?

*Runs to the W.A. Seccessionist Movement*

Wow, you really are a well-intergrated member of society.



As a result of what? Being a 'Wog'?



You do listen to what you're saying then?

Good. Maybe you'll realise you how repulsive you are thinking and sounding and reflect.

Um actuallly I am going to back Rocyalandia. I only started using the word wog becuase I got called a skip.

There was an letter in the AUstralian - a national paper - today by an American who married a vietmanese woman and moved to Australia and had mixed race kids. He said his kids were always accepted and they always accepted others except "wogs". He then when onto to say that people from "wog" backgrounds seem to have a macho chip on their shoulder that makes it hard for people to get along with them. That was from an American with a vietmanese wife and mixed race kids.

What many people dont realise is that it isnt just white Australians who have trouble with "wogs". I have a number of Asian friends, both Asian Aussies and international students, who hate wogs with a passion after going to school with them.

Once again it is becuase of young macho males who give a bad name to the group and set community opinoin against them. As I have previously mentioned it is ahrd to be accepting when you are called a skip and constantly insulted and threatned by these groups besides the fact that they are a minority within a minority.

Sure people probably express racism and have predujices but a lot of it is a reaction to people they have met.

Well, it's pretty obvious that the people who do this (on both sides) are dickheads who would do well to sit in jail for a while.
obviously



The "Australia First" party is heavily involved in this, so it is a racist agenda. There were also attempts to attack Mosques, although the original attackers on the lifeguards my have been Lebanese Christians or other. So again, an indicator that this is about racism, and the sort of climate that anti-terror campaigns have caused.
http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/cronulla.html

this has been a problem long before the war on "terror"

Please don't tell me you actually believe this. There are undoubtedly countries and areas in which this would not be okay.
But do you know what a great fashion industry Pakistan has? With Bikini models and everything?
What about Miss Lebanon (http://www.missworld.tv/bio/bio.sps?iBiographyID=51869)?
Fact of the matter is that the Islamic community here has no interest in outlawing Australian beach fashion, and that sort of thing should never even have entered this discussion.

ahhh so the continuous harrassment of any bikini clad woman at the beach has nothing to do with the islamic mentality? or is this you conceeding this point
There are undoubtedly countries and areas in which this would not be okay.


It was, but that's another matter.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/08/1078594295482.html
Wrong this didnt start just over the assault of life guards (an Australian icon) who volunteer their time to save lives, it has been going on atleast since these rapes.



You have to understand this problem isnt just out of the blue, its been building for years and the authorities have dont nothing to stop it

Are you referring to me?
your a pretty manly looking woman mate :p

i think this is too much,:mad:


im just curious but if a bunch of Caucasian teens attacked lifeguards n harrassed the people of Cronnulla ( sorry if i spelled it wrong ) would everyone throw racist comments at them and tell them to go back where they come from????


i think this is unfair and that the remarks made is unnessacary and that Australia was not Caucasian land but originally belonged to the native aboriginals so , remarks such as " go back to your country this is ours" , by a caucasian is unacceptable.

but what was done by those teens was wrong and they should be punished by law only but not racists slurs towards their people.

**Concerned**

Uhu. Well at least we didnt have to kill each other to end slavery. Nor have we had race riots as large as LA.

Furthermore Australia is made up from people all over the world, very few have british convict heritage. Most don't. Despite stuff like this we are still one of the most tolerant nations in the world and we arent all racist. Nor are some of the racists racist against anyone but Lebanese.

Paying out Australia doesnt add anything to this conversation and becuase you obviously have no insight to this conversation please leave. This is aimed at Aussies

But you do have a problem with the indigenous population of Australia, in regards to equal rights and poverty, or is that just fantasy.

your a pretty manly looking woman mate :p

Heh, well, he might have assumed I was female.

But you do have a problem with the indigenous population of Australia, in regards to equal rights and poverty, or is that just fantasy. With equal rights, no. With poverty yes. It's an embarassing issue for Australia brought about by our shameful neglect and abuse of the native population, followed up by idiotic welfare initiatives.

With equal rights, no. With poverty yes. It's an embarassing issue for Australia brought about by our shameful neglect and abuse of the native population, followed up by idiotic welfare initiatives.

And its still going on, coupled with this recent outbreak of racial violence Australia no longer seems idyllic (if it ever was), it worries me that in Australia you have the term 'WOG', i am of mixed German/Spanish and Filopino descent, does that make me a 'WOG'??, these sort of racial generalizations are not the mark of a mature toloerant society.

http://network.news.com.au/image/0,10114,5085592,00.jpg

So basically, what you're saying is, that's you in the picture wearing the camo hat and a grimace of hate, and that its the guy getting attacked who's at fault for not respecting your way of life?

Blaming the "muslems" for a riot in which Muslims are targeted with mob violence is like blaming a rape victim.On a side note...

here is some Knowledge base on mob violence survival...

When attacked by mob violence... you must do like the "muslem" on the picture...
Cover your Face with your hands...and cover your stomach/genitals with your legs (baby position).. in the Pic he is protecting his stomach/genitals with the car.

That "muslem" knows what he is doing...he must have some experience with being attacked... or maybe they teach that at the Australian Mosques.

That statement of yours is very revealing indeed.
Oh realy? And what does it reveal?

Actually, most of my European mates use the term wog to refer to themselves. It's no more a racist term than the use of Kiwi, or Yank.

I don't live in Sydney, so I can't speak as to the specific instances there, but if my experience with Lebanese and Muslim males and females in Brisbane is anything to go by, I can definitely understand the reaction of the Cronulla mob.

Let me just enlighten you as to how Lebs behave in my area (although they've gotten shut up by the Islander gangs more than once). Walking down the street with my ex-boyfriend (while I was in high school over five years ago), the Lebanese boys would refer to me as a slut, and offer to teach me how to please my boyfriend as we walked home from school (both of us in school uniform - it's mandatory here.). Lebanese boys on the train I rode to uni and to my prac teaching post often made lewd comments about Aussie girls (some of them obviously were older than high school age, and were making these comments to young primary school students). They harassed the other boys on the train constantly, looking for a fight, whatever culture they were from. Lebanese boys at the clubs I used to go to in Brisbane (this is why I stopped going to them) constantly pick fights with the guys in a group, calling them racist names.

The families' of the boys who committed the Sydney rapes and many members of both the Lebanese and Muslim communities made many statements to the effect that "Aussie girls are into group sex" and that "Aussie girls are asking for it all the time because they go out and get drunk and dress provocatively." The Lebanese girls and Muslim girls who do the same are of course, not asking for it, because they have morals.

Now onto the Muslims. When discussing the Sydney rapes with female friends, some of whom were Muslim, the Muslim girls said that we had to understand why they got raped, and that Aussie girls who dress like we do (I and my friends happen to be rather conservative dressers by Australian standards) had to expect to be raped by Muslim men, because it was well-known that we had a lower moral standard, and we made ourselves objects of lust for men, so we got what was coming to us.

Throughout my time at uni, the Muslim students have shoved me and my friends around, calling us Aussie bitches and sluts, and have made many disgusting and lewd comments towards us. I have often overheard a particular group of Lebanese Muslim students including girls, making disgusting comments about Australian girls and boys.

Whenever we complained to the university about it, we were told that we were being culturally insensitive, and it was implied that we were racist (the nice bouncers at nightclubs were a totally different matter).

It is experiences like these which lead many Australians to their hatred of Lebanese and of Muslims. Constant harrassment and bombardment of racism, hatred etc. and a complete refusal by the authorities to do anything about it.

Actually, most of my European mates use the term wog to refer to themselves. It's no more a racist term than the use of Kiwi, or Yank.

I don't live in Sydney, so I can't speak as to the specific instances there, but if my experience with Lebanese and Muslim males and females in Brisbane is anything to go by, I can definitely understand the reaction of the Cronulla mob.

Let me just enlighten you as to how Lebs behave in my area (although they've gotten shut up by the Islander gangs more than once). Walking down the street with my ex-boyfriend (while I was in high school over five years ago), the Lebanese boys would refer to me as a slut, and offer to teach me how to please my boyfriend as we walked home from school (both of us in school uniform - it's mandatory here.). Lebanese boys on the train I rode to uni and to my prac teaching post often made lewd comments about Aussie girls (some of them obviously were older than high school age, and were making these comments to young primary school students). They harassed the other boys on the train constantly, looking for a fight, whatever culture they were from. Lebanese boys at the clubs I used to go to in Brisbane (this is why I stopped going to them) constantly pick fights with the guys in a group, calling them racist names.

The families' of the boys who committed the Sydney rapes and many members of both the Lebanese and Muslim communities made many statements to the effect that "Aussie girls are into group sex" and that "Aussie girls are asking for it all the time because they go out and get drunk and dress provocatively." The Lebanese girls and Muslim girls who do the same are of course, not asking for it, because they have morals.

Now onto the Muslims. When discussing the Sydney rapes with female friends, some of whom were Muslim, the Muslim girls said that we had to understand why they got raped, and that Aussie girls who dress like we do (I and my friends happen to be rather conservative dressers by Australian standards) had to expect to be raped by Muslim men, because it was well-known that we had a lower moral standard, and we made ourselves objects of lust for men, so we got what was coming to us.

Throughout my time at uni, the Muslim students have shoved me and my friends around, calling us Aussie bitches and sluts, and have made many disgusting and lewd comments towards us. I have often overheard a particular group of Lebanese Muslim students including girls, making disgusting comments about Australian girls and boys.

Whenever we complained to the university about it, we were told that we were being culturally insensitive, and it was implied that we were racist (the nice bouncers at nightclubs were a totally different matter).

It is experiences like these which lead many Australians to their hatred of Lebanese and of Muslims. Constant harrassment and bombardment of racism, hatred etc. and a complete refusal by the authorities to do anything about it.
The Dutch have a similar problem with the Marrocans.

The Dutch have a similar problem with the Marrocans.
Interesting. I guess it's just a matter of time before other nations take the lead away from the US in the "war on terror". Evidently, a lot of people outside the US have taken the idea far beyond where the US has gone.

Paranoia is taking over.

I was wondering about when someone would post this.

I'm glad it happened because this along with the french riots show that there are no Ivory Towers of decency and tolerance in the west.
Well, nothing like that's happened in the US yet. Maybe there still is one ivory tower of decency and tolerance in the West. Come to think of it, UK and Canada and many others haven't seen this kind of mob violence involving Muslims and/or Muslim haters either. Seems there are a whole bunch of those Ivory towers in the west.

Actually, most of my European mates use the term wog to refer to themselves. It's no more a racist term than the use of Kiwi, or Yank.

I don't live in Sydney, so I can't speak as to the specific instances there, but if my experience with Lebanese and Muslim males and females in Brisbane is anything to go by, I can definitely understand the reaction of the Cronulla mob.

Let me just enlighten you as to how Lebs behave in my area (although they've gotten shut up by the Islander gangs more than once). Walking down the street with my ex-boyfriend (while I was in high school over five years ago), the Lebanese boys would refer to me as a slut, and offer to teach me how to please my boyfriend as we walked home from school (both of us in school uniform - it's mandatory here.). Lebanese boys on the train I rode to uni and to my prac teaching post often made lewd comments about Aussie girls (some of them obviously were older than high school age, and were making these comments to young primary school students). They harassed the other boys on the train constantly, looking for a fight, whatever culture they were from. Lebanese boys at the clubs I used to go to in Brisbane (this is why I stopped going to them) constantly pick fights with the guys in a group, calling them racist names.

The families' of the boys who committed the Sydney rapes and many members of both the Lebanese and Muslim communities made many statements to the effect that "Aussie girls are into group sex" and that "Aussie girls are asking for it all the time because they go out and get drunk and dress provocatively." The Lebanese girls and Muslim girls who do the same are of course, not asking for it, because they have morals.

Now onto the Muslims. When discussing the Sydney rapes with female friends, some of whom were Muslim, the Muslim girls said that we had to understand why they got raped, and that Aussie girls who dress like we do (I and my friends happen to be rather conservative dressers by Australian standards) had to expect to be raped by Muslim men, because it was well-known that we had a lower moral standard, and we made ourselves objects of lust for men, so we got what was coming to us.

Throughout my time at uni, the Muslim students have shoved me and my friends around, calling us Aussie bitches and sluts, and have made many disgusting and lewd comments towards us. I have often overheard a particular group of Lebanese Muslim students including girls, making disgusting comments about Australian girls and boys.

Whenever we complained to the university about it, we were told that we were being culturally insensitive, and it was implied that we were racist (the nice bouncers at nightclubs were a totally different matter).

It is experiences like these which lead many Australians to their hatred of Lebanese and of Muslims. Constant harrassment and bombardment of racism, hatred etc. and a complete refusal by the authorities to do anything about it.

And that calls for Mob justice?, and do White australians in white dominated areas always treat non whites with respect? is white australia is model of racial tolerance themselves? i am not condoning what muslim youths do but the reaction of these white mobs shows Australia to be a place of intolerence, especially when you take in Australia's record in regard to its indigenous people.

Well, nothing like that's happened in the US yet. Maybe there still is one ivory tower of decency and tolerance in the West. Come to think of it, UK and Canada and many others haven't seen this kind of mob violence involving Muslims and/or Muslim haters either. Seems there are a whole bunch of those Ivory towers in the west.
We haven't had mass violence towards Muslims - just hate crimes and the occasional murder of people mistaken for Muslims (such as Sikhs, who aren't even Muslim).

And that calls for Mob justice?, and do White australians in white dominated areas always treat non whites with respect? is white australia is model of racial tolerance themselves? i am not condoning what muslim youths do but the reaction of these white mobs shows Australia to be a place of intolerence, especially when you take in Australia's record in regard to its indigenous people.

I have never made a racist comment in my life, and I have never held racist views. I have grown up in one of the most ethnically diverse areas in my state. These mobs do indeed show Australia to be a place of intolerance - as much as the Lebanese gangs threatening our way of life do. I am not condoning the riots in any way, but when the authorities sit by and do nothing, young men who have had to protect their sister or cousin or girlfriend one too many times from harrassment and threats of rape, who have walked away from more than one racial provocation end up expressing their anger and frustration in the way that is most effective, and most immediately satisfying - violence.

No nation on Earth can really speak as to their record with regard to their own indigenous people. So don't discuss Australia's record with disdain, until your nation can be proved to be doing better.

Heh, well, he might have assumed I was female.
Well you carried on like a little bitch with a skinned knee, so I just assumed you had a vagina. Sorry, My bad. (And apologies to the females reading this for assuming this sad little toerag was a woman)

But that still doesn't change my opinion. If you don't like Australia, f**k off out of the country.

I have never made a racist comment in my life, and I have never held racist views. I have grown up in one of the most ethnically diverse areas in my state. These mobs do indeed show Australia to be a place of intolerance - as much as the Lebanese gangs threatening our way of life do. I am not condoning the riots in any way, but when the authorities sit by and do nothing, young men who have had to protect their sister or cousin or girlfriend one too many times from harrassment and threats of rape, who have walked away from more than one racial provocation end up expressing their anger and frustration in the way that is most effective, and most immediately satisfying - violence.

No nation on Earth can really speak as to their record with regard to their own indigenous people. So don't discuss Australia's record with disdain, until your nation can be proved to be doing better.

The crimes are the crimes of individuals, not of the lebanese community, while the incidents you posted are indeed anger inducing and don't get me wrong in that position i would very very hard to keep my cool but the fault for non prosecution lays with the Australian governement and police, so why not burn down there buildings and attack there staff? if it is a matter of venting anger vent it at the truly culpable

As for indigenous policies i am a member of a indigenous people that was granted independence from a colonial power, and while they left a legacy of corruption and abuse they did not relegate our people to the desert and seize our children to be raised by the government or non-indigenous families like Australia has, i have every right to speak of Australia's record with DISDAIN, because the indigenous populace of Australia is indeed living in poverty and discrimination or is that fantasy?

What those outside australia aren't realising is that this group does not want to assimilate into the australian culture or be a part of the australian way of life. They only identify themselves as of middle-eastern background. I have no problem with that if they live in the middle-east.

Kiwis, Asians, Poms, Yanks, Indians, Eskimos, Russians, Jews, et. al. seem to have no problem with how Australians go about thier day-to-day lives and are more than happy to support and grow in the country that has taken them in and given them a new beginning.

Why is it when the majority stand up and say "enough is enough" that they are branded as racists, and when extremists of an ethnic minority preach hatred it's "cultural diversity"?

What those outside australia aren't realising is that this group does not want to assimilate into the australian culture or be a part of the australian way of life. They only identify themselves as of middle-eastern background. I have no problem with that if they live in the middle-east.

Kiwis, Asians, Poms, Yanks, Indians, Eskimos, Russians, Jews, et. al. seem to have no problem with how Australians go about thier day-to-day lives and are more than happy to support and grow in the country that has taken them in and given them a new beginning.

Why is it when the majority stand up and say "enough is enough" that they are branded as racists, and when extremists of an ethnic minority preach hatred it's "cultural diversity"?

Granted, Assimilation of Islamic communities is a problem here in europe as well, however mob jsutice when enriched by racial overtones cannot be construed as liberal minded!! when the hundreds of german Nazi's attacked jewish areas during Kristalnacht, was that an example of the majority standing up and saying "enough is enough"? whats the point in representative democracy and a judiciary if we allow mob violence

...Nazi's attacked jewish areas during Kristalnacht, was that an example of the majority standing up and saying "enough is enough"? whats the point in representative democracy and a judiciary if we allow mob violence
Trying to win an arguement with a comparison of todays society with one from 70 years ago that lacked the amount of worldwide communication of today, and was pumped full of propaganda and brain washing for years, is like winning a f*cktard race.

You may be a winner in your eyes, but you are still a f*cktard.

Well you carried on like a little bitch with a skinned knee, so I just assumed you had a vagina. Sorry, My bad. (And apologies to the females reading this for assuming this sad little toerag was a woman)

But that still doesn't change my opinion. If you don't like Australia, f**k off out of the country.
OK, i'm going to reconsider. There's nothing wrong with the country, just the people like you that comprise it.

Trying to win an arguement with a comparison of todays society with one from 70 years ago that lacked the amount of worldwide communication of today, and was pumped full of propaganda and brain washing for years, is like winning a f*cktard race.

You may be a winner in your eyes, but you are still a f*cktard.

please i am far to modest to claim to be a winner and mate the comparison is valid, regardless of how you paint it the rioting that now spread outside of Sydney is proof enough and cannot be condoned regardless of the circumstances, the rule of law must apply.


OK, i'm going to reconsider. There's nothing wrong with the country, just the people like you that comprise it.

AMEN

And that calls for Mob justice?, and do White australians in white dominated areas always treat non whites with respect? is white australia is model of racial tolerance themselves? i am not condoning what muslim youths do but the reaction of these white mobs shows Australia to be a place of intolerence, especially when you take in Australia's record in regard to its indigenous people.good post...

Indeed.. Bad Immigrants... Bad Bad Immigrants.. Woks... Moslems... Lebs or whatever..

But.. Lets draw an events timeline for a minute...

#1 Newspapers around the World show horrible picture of Sidney Racist mobs attacking Immigrants...

#2 Someone post a thread about it...

#3 Several Aussie NSers (some new accounts too) Post multiple allegations about personal stories.. about ugly behavior by Immigrants.

#4 OceanDrive3 thinks that if Immigrants behave like that.. they do deserve to be deported... But OceanDrive3 wonders about the timing of these new allegations.

OK, i'm going to reconsider. There's nothing wrong with the country, just the people like you that comprise it.Feel free to attempt insult me more from your bedroom in your parents house, insulated from real life with your pseudo-smugness.

I'm guessing you are/were bullied at school and you would like to blame racism for that when it comes down to the simple fact that you are a gimp that no-one likes.

Face it: This is the best country in the world, love it or f**k off. You don't see me saying how bad Australia is and how much I hate it. Even if it does have cultural radicals and pathetic whingers (such as yourself) in it.

Authors note: Yes I do realise that insulting this fat sack of ducks**t doesn't further my cause or the argument at hand, but f**k it, fight fire with fire

Feel free to attempt insult me more from your bedroom in your parents house, insulated from real life with your pseudo-smugness.

I'm guessing you are/were bullied at school and you would like to blame racism for that when it comes down to the simple fact that you are a gimp that no-one likes.

Face it: This is the best country in the world, love it or f**k off. You don't see me saying how bad Australia is and how much I hate it. Even if it does have cultural radicals and pathetic whingers (such as yourself) in it.

Authors note: Yes I do realise that insulting this fat sack of ducks**t doesn't further my cause or the argument at hand, but f**k it, fight fire with fire

Are you Lebanese then, or anglo-saxon or perhaps Aboriginal?

the rioting that now spread outside of Sydney
And where pray tell has this rioting spread to? Considering its the early hours of the morning here, I'd like to know where you got that choice bit of information from.
Are you Lebanese then, or anglo-saxon or perhaps Aboriginal?
If thats your idea of an insult, then you have a lot to learn.

#4 OceanDrive3 thinks that if Immigrants behave like that.. they do deserve to be deported... But OcenaDrive3 wonders about the timing of these new allegations.

They aren't new, though. The various things that have been discussed in this thread have been going on for years, and people have been making complaints about them to authorities for as long. The only reason they seem new is because there haven't been riots over them before, so there hasn't been international attention before. Most people in the area, and in the the country, are aware of the problems and have been for some time.

I don't condone pulling the kind of crap that the drunken yobs over in Sydney pulled, violence of that kind is never acceptable in my book, and some of the attitudes being espoused were disgusting. However, I can perhaps understand what motivated it. The problems have been there for a long time, and nothing has been done.

But frankly, a lot of people of other countries in the region (and hence, their media) simply don't like Australia and see it as an interloper in "their" territory, and are eager to jump on anything that makes the nation look bad. If there weren't a chance to say "Oooh! Look at the drunken, racist dickheads in Sydney... The whole country and everyone in it must be racist! You damn whities hate us all! We were right all along!!", it would never have made the news outside of Australia.

Is it just me, or has this argument basically broken down to "they started it" "no, THEY started it!"? They, in both cases being an entire population suddenly represented by a small(ish) group of morons?

On a side note...

here is some Knowledge base on mob violence survival...

When attacked by mob violence... you must do like the "muslem" on the picture...
Cover your Face with your hands...and cover your stomach/genitals with your legs (baby position).. in the Pic he is protecting his stomach/genitals with the car.

That "muslem" knows what he is doing...he must have some experience with being attacked... or maybe they teach that at the Australian Mosques.

Huh. I didn't know that knowledge based on mob violence survival myself.

But by the same token... since YOU Know about it... I could say YOU must have some experience with being attacked, or maybe you learnt it at Church! ;)

small(ish) group of morons?

Thanks for that.

Is it just me, or has this argument basically broken down to "they started it" "no, THEY started it!"? They, in both cases being an entire population suddenly represented by a small(ish) group of morons?

It only took 19 hijackers, 1 failed hijacker, and a guy in a cave in Afghanistan to start the war on terror...

And where pray tell has this rioting spread to? Considering its the early hours of the morning here, I'd like to know where you got that choice bit of information from.

If thats your idea of an insult, then you have a lot to learn.

you what? it was a question not an insult, as for the info that was has been conveyed to me in my workplace, the news department at a television channel, not my parents house.

But frankly, a lot of people of other countries in the region (and hence, their media) simply don't like Australia and see it as an interloper in "their" territory, and are eager to jump on anything that makes the nation look bad. If there weren't a chance to say "Oooh! Look at the drunken, racist dickheads in Sydney... The whole country and everyone in it must be racist! You damn whities hate us all! We were right all along!!", it would never have made the news outside of Australia.
Exactly... and who is one of the loudest trumpet blowers on this bandwagon? Why Singapore of course... becuase of Australias attempt to stop the execution of someone with an australian passport who has caught trying to traffic drugs through thier country. (Even though I am all for the execution of drug trafficers)

As for the info that was has been conveyed to me in my workplace, the news department at a television channel, not my parents house.
What area has the rioting spread to outside of Sydney? What news channel released that information? Stop acting like a media outlet and deal in fact, and not in making a good story.

Exactly... and who is one of the loudest trumpet blowers on this bandwagon? Why Singapore of course... becuase of Australias attempt to stop the execution of someone with an australian passport who has caught trying to traffic drugs through thier country. (Even though I am all for the execution of drug trafficers)

I don't know about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Tit for tat, you know? We call them murderers, they call us racists.

What area has the rioting spread to outside of Sydney? What news channel released that information? Stop acting like a media outlet and deal in fact, and not in making a good story.

and my question? are you going to answer that or keep flapping

since YOU Know about it... I could say YOU must have some experience with being attacked, or maybe you learnt it at Church! ;)Got that from my uncle.. he is in da Police force... He got that kind of training.. thanks God I never had to use it.Huh. I didn't know that knowledge based on mob violence survival myself.Now you know..

Who says we learn nothing at NS :D

It only took 19 hijackers, 1 failed hijacker, and a guy in a cave in Afghanistan to start the war on terror...
Which I think best illustrates the ridiculousness of generalising. I wonder how few natives it would take to start an institutionalised War on First Nations?

It only took 19 hijackers, 1 failed hijacker, and a guy in a cave in Afghanistan to start the war on terror...
Aren't you forgetting 1 president of the most influential country on the planet and his business partners?

OK, I just want to say some things on this issue. I usually stay well away from the General Forum, but here it goes anyway.

I am from Canada and am currently going to university. Canada has its share of race problems dating back to colonisation, with tension between Natives and those of European descent, though nothing like that in the States, we chose not to start mass slaughtering our aboriginal population, for the most part. One major exception (See Newfoundland) .

That seems to be the major one, they are seen by some bigots to be always drunk, freeloaders, lazy, etc. But you must still compare this with racial tension in the states, up here it is nothing in comparison.

Now, I am going to a university, I work very hard here and have been elected President of the Student government. After 9/11, we got a large group of Middle eastern descent people at our school, fine, everyone was cool with that, out school went out of its way to make them comfortable and welcome.

My school is pretty small, with maybe 1700-1800 students and maybe 150-200 of them being Middle Eastern. Well, last year when I ran for President, I was running against a very nice girl who I respected. I am white male, she is white female.

At the last minute, a Muslim decided to run against us. Not a big deal, no one thought anything of it. The problem is, he stated that he wanted to, “tear down this school,” and that is why he was running. He started going around calling us racists and so on. I don’t know where he was getting that from, I had not really talked to him before.

You see, that racial community hangs around in the student center and yells and horses around and basically harasses people that are going by, to the point that people, especially women, avoid that area completely. They are loud, obnoxious, rude, and try to intimidate people as much as possible. They do the same in the computer labs and so on, to the point that people can’t even work in there.

During the election, friends of the guy running started picking on and bullying my opponent, to the point where she broke down that she was too scared to campaign anymore. I went to the Dean of Students, and asked for some help in reigning them in, because I didn’t feel that it was fair. They tried to do it to me, but let’s just say that I’ve spent too many nights on the streets to be intimidated by the likes of them.

During the debates, his supporters and friends, all Middle Eastern , mostly Lebanese, showed up and yelled so loud during mine and my female opponents speeches that we could hardly be heard, and when the question period cam afterwards, many of them stood up and accused us of being racists. It was horrible.

During the polling days, many of his supporters hung around outside of the polling stations, and intimidated people so that those that they didn’t feel would “Vote Mo!” wouldn’t go in.

Then, when they were asked to leave there, they moved to other parts of the school and started telling people who were “ethnic”, their words not mine, to get out and vote for Mo, just because he was ethnic too.

Luckily, the controversy caused people to come out in force, and I was elected by the highest amount of voters in University history.

Since, there has been many issues involved with intimidation, and that group has had their library privileges revoked for harassing the “sluts” that work their, you know anyone who tells them to please be quiet.

Also, there was an instance wherein they caused some sizable vandalism, and even though that was minor, (it was an accident caused by horseplay) when they never came forward, a white student fingered them to the Dean, and when they found out about it, they threatened him with violence.

Now, as President of the student government, I am chairing the disciplinary committee that is going to recommend action against this student, if the evidence holds forward. The problem is, at every step where the administration has stepped in to protect the other students from these people, they have claimed loudly that they were being racially discriminated against. Now, if the recommendation is to say, take action and thrown one or more of them out of school, they will probably get lawyers, and they might even win. Even though they were at fault.

I have no problem with Middle Eastern/Lebanese people, nor Muslims, but no matter what their background or color, most of these people are assholes. But if you call them on it, you are at best called a racist, and at worst beat up by a group of twenty of them.

Just wanted to let you know that I don’t condone violent behavior, but I do understand that frustration that could lead to it.

Tsar Wingert the Great.

Hey frucktard America was a prisony colony for the British too. Australia was settled becuase after the American indepdance war the British couldnt send thier crims to America any more.

Furthemore very few Australians have convict heritage. I am 8th generation Australian and there isnt a drop of convict blood in me.


Uhu. Well at least we didnt have to kill each other to end slavery. Nor have we had race riots as large as LA.

Big fucking deal. I never said the USA was better. Quit smashing strawmen, they didn't do anything to you.

Despite stuff like this we are still one of the most tolerant nations in the world and we arent all racist. Nor are some of the racists racist against anyone but Lebanese.

Oh, well if its ONLY racism against ONE minority...! That doesn't count then! You know, many Ku Klux Klan members are racist against only black people.



Paying out Australia doesnt add anything to this conversation and becuase you obviously have no insight to this conversation please leave.

No thanks, I think I'll exercise my right to partake in a conversation. I'm glad you said "please" though. Maybe you ARE tolerant!

this is an example of acceptable dress at a beach in Australia
can you tell me how long this woman would last in a muslim country before she was raped? Or do you believe in oppressing women too?


Rapes per capita (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_rap_cap) in Saudi Arabia are 0.00329321 per 1,000 people. It is ranked #65th. Australia, in comparison, has 0.777999 per 1,000 people and is ranked #3. So it seems like you Australians are committing more rapes than those evil Muslim countries. I guess I would have to say that that woman would "last longer" in a muslim country than she would in Australia.

But hey, I'm sure you'll just blame all rape in Australia on those evil muslims anyway, right?

And wtf are you trying to say by posting that picture anyway... that women who wear seductive clothing are "asking for it" when they get raped?

Aren't you forgetting 1 president of the most influential country on the planet and his business partners?
I'm talking about who "started" it, not "who kept it going".

and my question? are you going to answer that or keep flapping
Dont try to change the subject. I am guessing by your lack of facts to back up your statement that rioting had spread outside of sydney, that you were talking out of your arse.

Wow, you are a bigger knobend than I gave you credit for.

I'm talking about who "started" it, not "who kept it going".
Well technically bin-liner et. al didn't start the war on terror. They were the terror that war was declared on.

Dont try to change the subject. I am guessing by your lack of facts to back up your statement that rioting had spread outside of sydney, that you were talking out of your arse.

Wow, you are a bigger knobend than I gave you credit for.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2401582005

Attacks linked to two nights of race rioting in Sydney have been reported in two other Australian cities, but an uneasy calm has returned to the streets of Sydney.

Dont try to change the subject. I am guessing by your lack of facts to back up your statement that rioting had spread outside of sydney, that you were talking out of your arse.

Wow, you are a bigger knobend than I gave you credit for.

your mother raised you well, try reading a newspaper mate.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sydneys-racial-hatred-spills-over-to-rest-of-the-country/2005/12/13/1134236063916.html

Yeah, I'm all the way over here in America, and I can find links to Australian news sources putting related violence outside of the Sydney area.

Sydney's racial hatred spills over to rest of the country

December 14, 2005

ATTACKS on a Middle Eastern family in Perth and a Lebanese taxidriver in Adelaide have been linked to Sydney's race violence.

The Perth family was targeted on Monday night by a group of 11 Caucasian men, who threw eggs, kicked their garage door and shouted abuse. The father of the family, who does not wish to be identified, said they were badly shaken. "I don't know if we were mistakenly identified," he told ABC Radio. "What I definitely know is it was something linked to the escalation in NSW."

Superintendent Shayne Maines, of Perth police, said he could not rule out a link between the attack and the Sydney riots. "There was some suggestion they did make ethnically related comments to the occupant of the house."

In Adelaide, Hossein Kazemi was injured when a passenger punched him during a row over a taxi fare. "Apparently during the assault, the victim, because he was of Lebanese origin, was taunted about the stuff in Sydney and Cronulla beach," police said.

Text messages targeting ethnic groups are calling for people to start "cracking skulls" at a beach demonstration on the Gold Coast. And in Melbourne, the offices of the Islamic Council of Victoria were targeted by vandals for the second time in a month.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2401582005
This article fails to name these cities mentioned, nor gives any information on what occoured in said cities.

Possible Explination: Said foreign newspaper is beating up the story to sell more copies.

Just becuase someone writes a news story doesnt make it true... Playing NationStates you should be familiar with the issue about truth in media.

This article fails to name these cities mentioned, nor gives any information on what occoured in said cities.

Possible Explination: Said foreign newspaper is beating up the story to sell more copies.

Just becuase someone writes a news story doesnt make it true... Playing NationStates you should be familiar with the issue about truth in media.

Perth is one of the cities. The paper for one of the links is the Sydney Morning Herald, which I suppose you believe is a foreign newspaper.

This article fails to name these cities mentioned, nor gives any information on what occoured in said cities.

Possible Explination: Said foreign newspaper is beating up the story to sell more copies.

Just becuase someone writes a news story doesnt make it true... Playing NationStates you should be familiar with the issue about truth in media.

so its all fantasy obviously and the world is just picking on poor Australia

:upyours:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sydneys-racial-hatred-spills-over-to-rest-of-the-country/2005/12/13/1134236063916.html
I hate to break it to you but there has been racial violence in Perth for years. Due to the high level of "white pride" organisations there (Western Australia is pretty much like the confederate south of the USA).

And like in many western countries a lot of migrants drive cabs. And there isnt a day that goes by when some drunken idiot gets into a fight with a cab driver after a night on the piss.

Text mesages are being passed from both sides of the fight.

A victorian mosque is attacked for the 2nd time in a month.. meaning that it was attacked before the cronulla riots have occurred. And we wont mention groups of middle-eastern vandals attacking Retired Serviceman Clubs and pulling down their flags and urinating upon and burning them, nor thier vandalism of war memorials.

I'm afraid once again you are the victim of the media distorting facts to make a better news story.

I'm afraid once again you are the victim of the media distorting facts to make a better news story.
So, you're saying it's not a problem? Happens all the time, and it's ok that it happens?

Good for you.

So, you're saying it's not a problem? Happens all the time, and it's ok that it happens?

Good for you.

It's not that it isn't a problem, it is, but various media outlets have been quick to link events to the Sydney riots, when in fact they are "everyday" things, that likely have no direct link at all. The fact that they are "everyday" things is terrible, but there it is.

I think a lot of the uproar over this is due to the fact that Australia often promotes itself as a very tolerant country, and this sort of thing conflicts sharply with that. Australia, in my experience, really isn't a very accepting and tolerant country. There is a lot of casual racism here, and I mean a LOT. But it looks good if we promote ourselves as tolerant. It just wouldn't do to say: "Australia. A nation of racist shits. But our racist shits come from EVERY ethnicity!"

your mother raised you well, try reading a newspaper mate.
I have read as many articles and watch as much TV coverage as I can on the unfolding events.

It seems my mother has taught me more about the world works, unlike you and yours who seem to simply react to, and take as gospel what media reports.

If that were the case, I would have to believe that the story about 20 lebanese men bashed me with iron bars that was reported in the Daily Telegraph a few years back, rather than the tale of scare mongering they cooked up from the few details they learnt second hand days after the event occured.

iLock pending Moderator review.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

Well you carried on like a little bitch with a skinned knee, so I just assumed you had a vagina. Sorry, My bad. (And apologies to the females reading this for assuming this sad little toerag was a woman)

But that still doesn't change my opinion. If you don't like Australia, f**k off out of the country.
OK, i'm going to reconsider. There's nothing wrong with the country, just the people like you that comprise it.The personal attacks are going to stop.

Trying to win an arguement with a comparison of todays society with one from 70 years ago that lacked the amount of worldwide communication of today, and was pumped full of propaganda and brain washing for years, is like winning a f*cktard race.

You may be a winner in your eyes, but you are still a f*cktard.NeuEuropa: Official Warning - Flaming.

Feel free to attempt insult me more from your bedroom in your parents house, insulated from real life with your pseudo-smugness.

I'm guessing you are/were bullied at school and you would like to blame racism for that when it comes down to the simple fact that you are a gimp that no-one likes.

Face it: This is the best country in the world, love it or f**k off. You don't see me saying how bad Australia is and how much I hate it. Even if it does have cultural radicals and pathetic whingers (such as yourself) in it.

Authors note: Yes I do realise that insulting this fat sack of ducks**t doesn't further my cause or the argument at hand, but f**k it, fight fire with fireModerator's note: Insults against other NationStates players are not acceptable under any circumstances. Under NationStates rules, you are not permitted to fight fire with fire. Any belief to the contrary will jeaporadize your privilege to post on this forum.

NeuEuropa: Official Warning - Flaming.

please i am far to modest to claim to be a winner and mate the comparison is valid, regardless of how you paint it the rioting that now spread outside of Sydney is proof enough and cannot be condoned regardless of the circumstances, the rule of law must apply.You were asked to provide a link to verify this source of information. Be aware that posting false or misleading information to start or continue a fight is punishable as forum trolling, if we Moderators come to the conclusion that this is what you are doing.

iUnlock. The remainder of this discussion will remain civil.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

It's fascinating that this is occurring in Australia at this point. Because that's one of the places in the world where natural resources and creature comforts are the scarcest, and where global warming is already having an impact. Perhaps that is inducing ethnic rivalry.

Oh yes and attacking people because of their ethnicity is evil. It doesn't matter the situation. Whether it's black people attacking whites in the LA riots or white people attacking Lebanese in Sydney, the action is still considered criminal (at least in the US that is). Just thought I'd help clear that up.

With regards to incidents in other cities:

Elsewhere around the country:

PERTH — a family of Middle Eastern origin endured an attack on their home by a group of 11 men who threw eggs, shouted abuse and kicked at the garage door.

ADELAIDE — a taxi driver of Lebanese origin was injured when punched by a passenger who taunted him about racial violence in Sydney.

MELBOURNE — The Islamic Council of Victoria said vandalism of its Melbourne offices was retaliation for the Sydney violence.

GOLD COAST — mobile phone text messages targeting ethnic groups have called for people to attend a demonstration on Sunday and to start "cracking skulls".

Link: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=76953

Just so you know "Wog" is an accepted term, there is actually a movie called "the wogboy" it us primarily used to describe someone of Italian or Greek decent. Just like we call New Zealanders, Kiwis it isnt defamatory.
Bullshit. Wogboy was a film produced by people who would be called "wogs," thus diffusing any negative connotations. The term can, and is, used in a derogatrory manner, although yeah, its potency has declined over the years. It still isn't completely devoid of any negative connotations.

Are you referring to me?I think they're referring to me, nevermind that I AM in Sydney at the moment (where my family lives) AND have an Anglo boyfriend AND closest friend. :D I guess they're both race traitors or something.

Edit: Ok they were referring to you, on the sexist assumption that a "whinger" must be a woman. The feminist in me seeeeethes.

You know, I've read through all 13 pages of this thread so far, and I've noticed something:

Not one single Aussie poster (and there have been a lot of them, including myself) have come up with examples of POSITIVE behaviour by young male Wogs (and I'm using the term in it's non-derogatory, descriptive sense- especially since it would take ages to type "Persons of Middle Eastern Ethnicity" all the time. More importantly, they self-identify as Wogs).

I sincerely hope no-one is trying to claim that they're ALL violent thugs, because this is clearly not the case. As others have posted, the Macho thing seems to be largely confined to guys under 30 or so.

Yes, there are plenty of yobbish, thuggish males under 30 of all ethnicities- but certainly in Queensland, they don't abduct and gang-rape young women at knife-point, they don't cruise around in massive packs and bash people with little or no provocation (alcohol related, usually), and it certainly seems that a large percentage of them have a macho chop on their shoulder.

I've said it before, but I'm in favour of a "Our Way Or The Highway" law- calm the hell down and accept you're in Australia now, or hand over your Passport at the airport and you can have a one-way flight to anywhere else in the world.

Anglo people commit crimes too- but a disturbing amount of the vicious bashings committed in Australia appear to be committed by non-Anglos. The Bouncer who bashed cricketer David Hookes to death was a Wog, there was that nasty pack-rape in Sydney a year or two ago, and pretty much any time you see a pack-bashing of someone on TV, it's a group of Wogs (admittedly bashing other Wogs, but that's not the point).

I feel really sorry for the non-trouble makers out there, but I'm having a hard time being convinced that they're a minority, or that they don't have the approval of a sizeable number of members of their communities- otherwise, you'd think the Lebanese community leaders would have done something about it a long time ago.

Yes, Anglos have some work to do to, but like it or not, Australia was a white country for most of it's existence and a lot of people would like it to stay that way, as evidenced by these riots.

I don't condone the riots, but as others have said, 5,000 is a LOT of people to be showing up to such an event, which means there are deeper problems than people beating up lifesavers.

Bear in mind the rest of the country has long had to suffer because of Sydney and Melbourne's problems (as another poster mentioned, Queensland doesn't have as much of an ethnic gang problem because the Polynesians keep them in line, as do the police), so we'll be hearing about this for quite some time, I think...

Yes, Anglos have some work to do to, but like it or not, Australia was a white country for most of it's existence and a lot of people would like it to stay that way, as evidenced by these riots.
What about the 40 000 or so years before invasion?

It's only natural for people to get sick and tired of muslims.


Well hold on a moment. Even if we don't get into what's wrong with your statement on the surface, these people were assualted because of their ethnicity, not their religion. I can't really imagine a mob stopping and asking someone their religious beliefs before beating them.

What about the 40 000 or so years before invasion?

A very good point. Or does that not 'count' as history in your mind?

ahhh so the continuous harrassment of any bikini clad woman at the beach has nothing to do with the islamic mentality? or is this you conceeding this point
I'd say that this is largely fabricated by precisely the people who are now after a bit of bashing.
Not a single Muslim person I have met (and there are thousands at UQ) has had any problem with bikinis, although a few of the girls didn't want to wear them. Fine by me.

You have to understand this problem isnt just out of the blue, its been building for years and the authorities have dont nothing to stop it
The problem is primarily one of Australians hanging on to the idea that Australia is an Anglo-Saxon country, and treating others that way. I have witnessed myself that people have asked a friend of mine, born and bred Australian, where he's from. He answered "From Australia", and they still keep asking where he's really from.
It just so happens that his parents are from Ghana...

Like that old adage goes, if you can't behave like an animal in a frat house because you aren't part of that group, you might as well do so at a public beach.

Treating women badly is something most men are guilty of.

Does anybody here mind expanding a little on the background of all this? The first post gives more detail on that than any one of those articles. Thanks.
A couple of years ago a group of Lebanese young men whent on a rapeing spree of white Australian woman. The mother of one of the accused stated that he had done nothing wrong as white Australian woman are sluts.
A group of Lebanese young men have recently been arrested for planning terrorist attacks. They are not affiliated with any known groups .
As to the above men I grew up in the same area as some of them and know well how violent and malicious these people can be.
I saw one of them pick up a neighbers kitten and slam it against a wall for fun.
I used to help a slightly slow class mate at school who was lebonese so all the other lebonese in the area left me alone. But I could see the amount of hatred they where stiring up .

Islam strikes again......:sniper:

The crimes are the crimes of individuals, not of the lebanese community, while the incidents you posted are indeed anger inducing and don't get me wrong in that position i would very very hard to keep my cool but the fault for non prosecution lays with the Australian governement and police, so why not burn down there buildings and attack there staff? if it is a matter of venting anger vent it at the truly culpable

As for indigenous policies i am a member of a indigenous people that was granted independence from a colonial power, and while they left a legacy of corruption and abuse they did not relegate our people to the desert and seize our children to be raised by the government or non-indigenous families like Australia has, i have every right to speak of Australia's record with DISDAIN, because the indigenous populace of Australia is indeed living in poverty and discrimination or is that fantasy?

Thats right - they are crimes of individuals. But unfortunately, in this country, the Lebanese community has openly supported these crimes and the criminals, claiming that it is the fault of everyone but their sons. and unfortunately, our police officers and courts are too pissweak to do anything about the situation for fear of offending the precious fucking Muslims and Lebs. So Australian boys who are raised to be proud of this great nation, get very angry about it. Couple that with a macho culture, and an emphasis on conformity, and hey presto, mob violence. It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with the frustration of young men and women at police and politicians who refuse to help them.

And now for your point about the indigenous people. I would love to know what country you are from? And I would also like to point out to you that we no longer "force them to live in the desert". Furthermore, where did you get your information about Stolen Generation from? Been watching the great lie that is Rabbit-Proof Fence?

Our Indigenous citizens are living in poverty, just like many of our farmers. I am not denying that we don't have issues, but you really need to shut your mouth because you have no idea what you are talking about. Some of the indigenous issues wew are currently experiencing actually come from the fact that ATSIC squandered money for many years leaving the Aboriginal people with nothing. For your information, ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Council) was run entirely by Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders. Some of the indigenous issues we are experiencing with regard to education are rife throughout rural areas, not just indigenous communities, because the schools in most rural areas (in Queensland where I'm from) do not go beyond year 10 in most cases and Year 7 in a significant minority. Due to the dwindling size of indigenous communities this is particularly pronounced. The other major issue is language. There is no funding given for ESL in Indigenous communities, despite the fact that many rural indigenous students are ESL.

Furthermore, the health issues being experienced by many indigenous communities are also experienced in many cases by the poor in Australia. It is due to the fact that many Aboriginals refuse to get their children immunised, because they (quite understandably) fear white man's medicine etc. Many programs are attempting to rectify this, including one run by Leah Purcell, one of our finest actresses. It is having particular success because she herself is indigenous, so the communities feel more at ease.

I'm still at a loss as to how our indigenous citizens are experiencing discrimination in contemporary Australia, except through of course, the language barrier...but I'm sure you'll be happy to point that out for me of course.

[QUOTE=Neu Leonstein]I'd say that this is largely fabricated by precisely the people who are now after a bit of bashing.
Not a single Muslim person I have met (and there are thousands at UQ) has had any problem with bikinis, although a few of the girls didn't want to wear them. Fine by me.
[QUOTE]


I guess our Muslims are a bit more tolerant then...;)

I do recall a couple of years ago that a vocal Muslim group in Sydney wanted Bondi beach either shut down, or a section cordoned off from public view so that the Muslim women could go bathing without being seen by Australian men. Many Muslim men expressed this wish for themselves, so that they didn't have to be disgusted by the sight of Aussie sluts parading around in underwear for the pleasure of men.

I also recall that there was a group in one of the southern states trying to get pools closed for a period of time each day so that their women could go swimming without being seen by Aussie men and women.

Kinda upset the populace a little bit.

Elsewhere around the country:
Link: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=76953
*Sigh* I wish people would read the whole thread before jumping in with material already covered.

For the benifit of Ravenclaws and Others (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458802&p=10090000) (Post #176)

What about the 40 000 or so years before invasion?
I knew it wouldn't be long before someone played the "invasion" card.

History is littered with one tribe conquerring another. In fact even Aboriginals tribes fought one another. And if you go back further in history you'll find that when the Aboriginals "invaded" australia, totally wiped out the indiginious population (a race of pigmy-like people) when they arrived. But it seems ok for one ethnic group to commit racial genocide against another as long as one of the ethnic groups isn't of northern european decent.

It just so happens that the english were quite good at "invasion" and made an empire that covered a good percentage of the world. Thats the way things were done back then. If the local population had been better organised with better technology they might have been able to repel the invaders. But they weren't and they didn't, so a country they roamed as hunter-gathers became part of a larger "more civilised" empire.
Some of the indigenous issues wew are currently experiencing actually come from the fact that ATSIC squandered money for many years leaving the Aboriginal people with nothing. For your information, ATSIC (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Council) was run entirely by Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders.
To add to this ATSIC has been dissolved by the government due to the corruption of the ATSIC board for keeping the goverment funding to aid the aboriginal population for themselves and thier own families, not putting it to use helping thier entire community escape poor education and health that plagues them.

I guess its not so bad when members of your own culture screw you over though.

It's fascinating that this is occurring in Australia at this point. Because that's one of the places in the world where natural resources and creature comforts are the scarcest

Australia is VERY rich in natural resources. We supply coal, natural gas, gold, iron, copper, tin, wheat, wool, cotton, etc etc to some of the worlds largest countries (such as china, india, countries in the middle-east)

According to the OECD, we also have one of the highest standards of living on the planet.

Yet another case of someone deploying thier mouth before thier brain was enguaged.

I knew it wouldn't be long before someone played the "invasion" card.

History is littered with one tribe conquerring another. In fact even Aboriginals tribes fought one another. And if you go back further in history you'll find that when the Aboriginals "invaded" australia, totally wiped out the indiginious population (a race of pigmy-like people) when they arrived. But it seems ok for one ethnic group to commit racial genocide against another as long as one of the ethnic groups isn't of northern european decent.

It just so happens that the english were quite good at "invasion" and made an empire that covered a good percentage of the world. Thats the way things were done back then. If the local population had been better organised with better technology they might have been able to repel the invaders. But they weren't and they didn't, so a country they roamed as hunter-gathers became part of a larger "more civilised" empire.

I agree 100%- you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Even more importantly, "Native" peoples like the Maori and the Indians learned to shoot back. I'm not aware of any instances in Australian Colonial History where a large number of Aboriginals acquired firearms and actually made any sort of organised attempt to fight the British. I've got a lot of respect for the Maori, the Indians, the Zulu, etc because they fought back.

Of course, the topic of this discussion isn't Australo-Aboriginal Australian Relations, especially because it's one of those things no-one outside Australia can possibly hope to understand...

I agree 100%- you've taken the words right out of my mouth.

Even more importantly, "Native" peoples like the Maori and the Indians learned to shoot back. I'm not aware of any instances in Australian Colonial History where a large number of Aboriginals acquired firearms and actually made any sort of organised attempt to fight the British. I've got a lot of respect for the Maori, the Indians, the Zulu, etc because they fought back.

Of course, the topic of this discussion isn't Australo-Aboriginal Australian Relations, especially because it's one of those things no-one outside Australia can possibly hope to understand...

Actually there were several examples of organised Aboriginal resistance. Check out:

http://www.murumittigar.com.au/history/

http://www.upstarts.net.au/site/ideas/landrights/landrights_resistance.html

http://www.cat.org.au/forgottenwar/
http://www4.tpgi.com.au/2juls/resistance.html

Thanks for the links... very interesting readings, although I stand by my earlier comments re: the lack of an Australian version of the Maori Wars or the Indian Wars.

Western Oriental Gentleman, WOG.
It is actually Wiley Oriental Gentleman.

Thanks for the links... very interesting readings, although I stand by my earlier comments re: the lack of an Australian version of the Maori Wars or the Indian Wars.

Yeah. I do respect the Maori people a great deal for their organised resistance. I tend to attribute a lot of the Aboriginal lack of resistance to both the lack of a unifying language, as the Maoris had, and also a larger landmass which meant that the tribal territories were separate and extremely isolated. But I really don't know why there was no unified attempt at resistance. It really is a little troubling to me.

It is actually Wiley Oriental Gentleman.
Yet again another post by someone who doesnt fully read the thread.

Post #116: Point 1 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458802&page=8)

Yet again another post by someone who doesnt fully read the thread.

Post #116: Point 1 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458802&page=8)

I believe it is a shortened form of golliwog, and came to include anyone east of suez.

(Though by 1945, it had been redefined to include anything not British: "wogland begins at Calais").

But you do have a problem with the indigenous population of Australia, in regards to equal rights and poverty, or is that just fantasy.

SO does America with its native population or did you forget the Indian wars and the current living standards of American Indians. Sriously US citizens stay out of this unless you have some insightful comments. Insulting AUstralia is going to just incite more anger.

And its still going on, coupled with this recent outbreak of racial violence Australia no longer seems idyllic (if it ever was), it worries me that in Australia you have the term 'WOG', i am of mixed German/Spanish and Filopino descent, does that make me a 'WOG'??, these sort of racial generalizations are not the mark of a mature toloerant society.

Seriously non AUstralians should stay out of this. Wog refers to people from Meditaranean countries, normally eastern ones. And the race riots in Britain, US, Malaysia, Indonesia, the neo Nazis in Germany and the riots in France prove we aren't the onyl society with problems.

Actually, most of my European mates use the term wog to refer to themselves. It's no more a racist term than the use of Kiwi, or Yank.

I don't live in Sydney, so I can't speak as to the specific instances there, but if my experience with Lebanese and Muslim males and females in Brisbane is anything to go by, I can definitely understand the reaction of the Cronulla mob.

Let me just enlighten you as to how Lebs behave in my area (although they've gotten shut up by the Islander gangs more than once). Walking down the street with my ex-boyfriend (while I was in high school over five years ago), the Lebanese boys would refer to me as a slut, and offer to teach me how to please my boyfriend as we walked home from school (both of us in school uniform - it's mandatory here.). Lebanese boys on the train I rode to uni and to my prac teaching post often made lewd comments about Aussie girls (some of them obviously were older than high school age, and were making these comments to young primary school students). They harassed the other boys on the train constantly, looking for a fight, whatever culture they were from. Lebanese boys at the clubs I used to go to in Brisbane (this is why I stopped going to them) constantly pick fights with the guys in a group, calling them racist names.

The families' of the boys who committed the Sydney rapes and many members of both the Lebanese and Muslim communities made many statements to the effect that "Aussie girls are into group sex" and that "Aussie girls are asking for it all the time because they go out and get drunk and dress provocatively." The Lebanese girls and Muslim girls who do the same are of course, not asking for it, because they have morals.

Now onto the Muslims. When discussing the Sydney rapes with female friends, some of whom were Muslim, the Muslim girls said that we had to understand why they got raped, and that Aussie girls who dress like we do (I and my friends happen to be rather conservative dressers by Australian standards) had to expect to be raped by Muslim men, because it was well-known that we had a lower moral standard, and we made ourselves objects of lust for men, so we got what was coming to us.

Throughout my time at uni, the Muslim students have shoved me and my friends around, calling us Aussie bitches and sluts, and have made many disgusting and lewd comments towards us. I have often overheard a particular group of Lebanese Muslim students including girls, making disgusting comments about Australian girls and boys.

Whenever we complained to the university about it, we were told that we were being culturally insensitive, and it was implied that we were racist (the nice bouncers at nightclubs were a totally different matter).

It is experiences like these which lead many Australians to their hatred of Lebanese and of Muslims. Constant harrassment and bombardment of racism, hatred etc. and a complete refusal by the authorities to do anything about it.


Funny how none of the people reading this from overseas seem to understand that white people aren't the only ones capable of violence.

As I and many others have said this is just general racism it is anger at the behaviour of young people from certain specific backgrounds who as presviously mentioned by many people is very hostile, very macho and very agressive.

Notice it isnt just white Australians who are making comments about "wogs"

Interesting. I guess it's just a matter of time before other nations take the lead away from the US in the "war on terror". Evidently, a lot of people outside the US have taken the idea far beyond where the US has gone.

Paranoia is taking over.


THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM. ITS ABOUT SOCIAL COMMUNICATION AND BEHAVIOUR. NO AUSTRALIAN HAS MENTIONED TERRORISM AND NO ONE AT THE RIOTS WHERE RIOTING BECUASE OF TERRORISM.

Im getting frustrated at people without any insight posting, and especially those from hypocritical countries like the US

Well, nothing like that's happened in the US yet. Maybe there still is one ivory tower of decency and tolerance in the West. Come to think of it, UK and Canada and many others haven't seen this kind of mob violence involving Muslims and/or Muslim haters either. Seems there are a whole bunch of those Ivory towers in the west.

What do you mean not in the US. How about the LA riots? US citizens shut your goddamn hypociritcal mouths unless you want to do something but talk about how great the US and about how everyone else sucks

good post...

Indeed.. Bad Immigrants... Bad Bad Immigrants.. Woks... Moslems... Lebs or whatever..

But.. Lets draw an events timeline for a minute...

#1 Newspapers around the World show horrible picture of Sidney Racist mobs attacking Immigrants...

#2 Someone post a thread about it...

#3 Several Aussie NSers (some new accounts too) Post multiple allegations about personal stories.. about ugly behavior by Immigrants.

#4 OceanDrive3 thinks that if Immigrants behave like that.. they do deserve to be deported... But OceanDrive3 wonders about the timing of these new allegations.

I never said immigrants. Most of the youth are second or third generation Australia. Few people have mentioned immigration

Yet again another post by someone who doesnt fully read the thread.

Post #116: Point 1 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=458802&page=8)
I can play that game too.
What makes you think you are right?
I have read books so i am telling you it is Wiley Oriental Gentleman.>.<

What do you mean not in the US. How about the LA riots? US citizens shut your goddamn hypociritcal mouths unless you want to do something but talk about how great the US and about how everyone else sucks

Seriously non AUstralians should stay out of this.

Sriously US citizens stay out of this unless you have some insightful comments. Insulting AUstralia is going to just incite more anger.

You sure do seem to have a problem with anyone posting in this thread unless they're sanctioned by you. Here's a clue: you can't dictate who gets to post on this forum.

And that last quote of yours sounds like you're saying, "If anyone not from Australia posts again, we'll riot and it'll be your fault!"

It's fascinating that this is occurring in Australia at this point. Because that's one of the places in the world where natural resources and creature comforts are the scarcest, and where global warming is already having an impact. Perhaps that is inducing ethnic rivalry.

Oh yes and attacking people because of their ethnicity is evil. It doesn't matter the situation. Whether it's black people attacking whites in the LA riots or white people attacking Lebanese in Sydney, the action is still considered criminal (at least in the US that is). Just thought I'd help clear that up.

Um ok. You think good stuff now. AUstralia is a major exporter of raw materials both food and mineral. We also have the 7th highest standard of living in the world and yes racism is a crime.

You sure do seem to have a problem with anyone posting in this thread unless they're sanctioned by you. Here's a clue: you can't dictate who gets to post on this forum.

And that last quote of yours sounds like you're saying, "If anyone not from Australia posts again, we'll riot and it'll be your fault!"
Oh no i am not from Australia!:eek:

A very good point. Or does that not 'count' as history in your mind?

What about the American Indians? Wait what about the celts in Britain before the Anglo Saxons came? What about the normans, what about the arab expoansion along north afric with islam? Heck what about the poor Eygpitians who got invaded by the Hitites?

You can barely call Aboriginals walking around the bush as a nation nor as a history.

Australia as a nation has been a majority white nation regardless of other factors

Islam strikes again......:sniper:

This not about religion. Dont comment without knowledge

I can play that game too.
What makes you think you are right?
I have read books so i am telling you it is Wiley Oriental Gentleman.>.<

I have also read a book saying it is a bastardisation of the Arabic word for dog take by Aussie soldiers from the Arabs in North Africa who reffered to the Italian soldiers in this manner.

POintless argument dont continue it

You sure do seem to have a problem with anyone posting in this thread unless they're sanctioned by you. Here's a clue: you can't dictate who gets to post on this forum.

And that last quote of yours sounds like you're saying, "If anyone not from Australia posts again, we'll riot and it'll be your fault!"

Um no but i can suggets those with no real insight stop making fools of themselves. I have seen you on many other forums Santa Barbara and most of your comments tend to inflame conversations and anger people.

Also I am fine with people form other nations commenting but I dont like people like you who just say things like "the US is so great" and "AUstralia must be a shithole" without adding any depth to the conversation or adding any real points.

Um no but i can suggets those with no real insight stop making fools of themselves. I have seen you on many other forums Santa Barbara and most of your comments tend to inflame conversations and anger people.

Truth hurts, what can I say. I'm not delicate and tactful like some people 'round here, thats all, but I certainly don't flamebait.


Also I am fine with people form other nations commenting but I dont like people like you who just say things like "the US is so great" and "AUstralia must be a shithole" without adding any depth to the conversation or adding any real points.

I added real points and have never said anything like "the US is so great." IIRC it was you who brought up the US in the first place, as a half-assed way to justify this situation. As if its suddenly OK if the USA does it.

I have also read a book saying it is a bastardisation of the Arabic word for dog take by Aussie soldiers from the Arabs in North Africa who reffered to the Italian soldiers in this manner.

POintless argument dont continue it
Surprising seeing as i thought all you guys did was get into drunken Brawls in Cairo.

Seriously non AUstralians should stay out of this. Wog refers to people from Meditaranean countries, normally eastern ones. And the race riots in Britain, US, Malaysia, Indonesia, the neo Nazis in Germany and the riots in France prove we aren't the onyl society with problems.

What the hell, are the rest of the world not allowed to pass comment on Australia?, nobody is saying that Australia is the only nation with problems regarding ethnic groups or indigenous problems what is getting right up our non-australian noses is the attitude of some Aussie's who have tried and failed to justify the actions of the barbaric mob that sparked this thread in the first place and seem to think that Australia is above criticism, if you cannot handle an open debate then switch your PC off. THIS IS NOT A CAMPAIGN AGAINST AUSTRALIA, clear enough for you.

you really dont get it do you? I dont condone this behaviour but have you really thought about why 5000 odd people have just snapped.

Well, it must be because whoever they attacked, DESERVED it, right?

Attitudes like this are what causes the tension that led to these sorts of riots in the first place. Any criticism of middle easterners is automatically branded as "racist", whether or not it actually is.

as an australian, i think what the lebanese were doing was bad, but what the "protesters" were doing was far worse. what moron decided that alcohol and peacefull protests mix? i knew bad things would happen as soon as i heard about them trying to organise that protest and the wording of the messages to do so

as an australian, i think what the lebanese were doing was bad, but what the "protesters" were doing was far worse. what moron decided that alcohol and peacefull protests mix? i knew bad things would happen as soon as i heard about them trying to organise that protest and the wording of the messages to do so

granted, i do not think anyone is saying that the protests are without reason, but when citizens go onto the street to dispense Mob justice with a total disregard for the rule of law then there is something seriously wrong regardless of wether it has racial overtones or not.

Some Aussie's have posted to the effect that the government is to blame, of this i have no doubt, Prime Minister Howard can hardly be marketed as a symbol of multi culturalism hence why he and his administration should be attacked, not innocents walking the streets who are beaten simply for not looking caucasian. Australia's international image has taken a beating wether its justified or not.

granted, i do not think anyone is saying that the protests are without reason, but when citizens go onto the street to dispense Mob justice with a total disregard for the rule of law then there is something seriously wrong regardless of wether it has racial overtones or not.

Some Aussie's have posted to the effect that the government is to blame, of this i have no doubt, Prime Minister Howard can hardly be marketed as a symbol of multi culturalism hence why he and his administration should be attacked, not innocents walking the streets who are beaten simply for not looking caucasian. Australia's international image has taken a beating wether its justified or not.
yeah, i think mobs are useless and violence breeds violence. we really need to find a better way to sort this out, though blaming it all on johnnie isn't enirely fair, it's not all within his control

yeah, i think mobs are useless and violence breeds violence. we really need to find a better way to sort this out, though blaming it all on johnnie isn't enirely fair, it's not all within his control

But it does seem that wether its his adminsitration, the Sydney city authorities or the police action to curb lawlessness by ethnic gangs was not taken, this sithuation were White aussies are complaining of bad behaviour by Lebanese gangs seems to be an issue thats has been alive for a while (from what i can read up on and from postings by Aussie's on this thread). Lawlessness by gangs of any ethnicity should have been knipped in the butt some time ago, instead of waiting for the pressure to blow.

But it does seem that wether its his adminsitration, the Sydney city authorities or the police action to curb lawlessness by ethnic gangs was not taken, this sithuation were White aussies are complaining of bad behaviour by Lebanese gangs seems to be an issue thats has been alive for a while (from what i can read up on and from postings by Aussie's on this thread). Lawlessness by gangs of any ethnicity should have been knipped in the butt some time ago, instead of waiting for the pressure to blow.
i hate it when people are right, damn you logic!!!!!!11!1!one e^(i2pi)

(Spelling mistakes up ahead :( )

Right...So its ok to bash anyone who even looks lebanese cause of a bunch of youth gangs consisting of lebanese teenagers? :headbang: Oh that is some great logic there!

What the heck is "Our way or the highway"? Its not the europeans country just as someone metioned earlier that it wasn't the aborignals country either ( I didn't really know someone pre-dated them ).

Unless the poster of that assumes that every non european person is disrespecting good ole aussie law(must...resist...urge..to spam "white australia policy" for the godwin) in which case,following that same logic every australian person currently residing in Indonesia,Singapore and wherever else the drugs are going these days :p should be jailed.

Hell besides if you reckon that the minoirity groups aren't acting like Australians for the sole reason that they are not europeans then make an acutal EFFORT to intergrate them into Australian soiciety. I agree,some people of any race can just be assholes but it is criminal for John Howard not to be making an effort at all as that incites someone who feels like causing trouble to play the "race card" and call up all of his buddies and twist the story of what happened so it looks like he was being repressed.

If there is at least an effort to represent the Lebanese commuity as a whole then you won't get this so called "repression" (though in some parts it might actually be happening what with those patortic youth league people about)




of course the war in iraq doesn't really help matters...gg john howard

<snip>
yeah, if you're not carefull with that integretion talk, people'll take it the wrong way and things'll get worse

(Spelling mistakes up ahead :( )

Right...So its ok to bash anyone who even looks lebanese cause of a bunch of youth gangs consisting of lebanese teenagers? :headbang: Oh that is some great logic there!

What the heck is "Our way or the highway"? Its not the europeans country just as someone metioned earlier that it wasn't the aborignals country either ( I didn't really know someone pre-dated them ).

Unless the poster of that assumes that every non european person is disrespecting good ole aussie law(must...resist...urge..to spam "white australia policy" for the godwin) in which case,following that same logic every australian person currently residing in Indonesia,Singapore and wherever else the drugs are going these days :p should be jailed.

Hell besides if you reckon that the minoirity groups aren't acting like Australians for the sole reason that they are not europeans then make an acutal EFFORT to intergrate them into Australian soiciety. I agree,some people of any race can just be assholes but it is criminal for John Howard not to be making an effort at all as that incites someone who feels like causing trouble to play the "race card" and call up all of his buddies and twist the story of what happened so it looks like he was being repressed.

If there is at least an effort to represent the Lebanese commuity as a whole then you won't get this so called "repression" (though in some parts it might actually be happening what with those patortic youth league people about)




of course the war in iraq doesn't really help matters...gg john howard

Exactly the rule of law must prevail or whats the point? i agree Howard should have and should be doing more....

Exactly the rule of law must prevail or whats the point? i agree Howard should have and should be doing more....
the question is: is he doing it quietly, without telling us? it'd probably work out better that way
BTW: if you're replying to a large post, you should remove the contents and leave the persons name (often called snipping, normally text is replaced with <snip>) - good to keep the forum easy to read

What the heck is "Our way or the highway"? Its not the europeans country just as someone metioned earlier that it wasn't the aborignals country either ( I didn't really know someone pre-dated them ).


Well, actually, I'd say Australia *IS* a European's country. When Captain Cook and Co. arrived in the late 1700s, they found a very big, very empty country inhabitated by a small number of stone age peoples, who were quite content to run around almost totally naked and throw pointed sticks at each other, as well as the local wildlife. There was, in short, nothing at all that even came close to the European definition of "Civilisation". So, what did the British do?

They shot them and nicked their country, to paraphrase Captain Edmund Blackadder.

The Australia that declared Federation on 1/1/1901 was based on the former British Colonies, operating under British laws, speaking the English Language, and was about as British as you could get (see also: New Zealand).

The Australia that fought in the Boer War, WWI, and WWII was basically British, as was NZ. None of this "Multiculturalism" malarkey- if one of those Foreigners moved to Australia, they got with the programme and learned English, by Jove! And if not, then they could look forward to a lifetime of doing other people's laundry, cooking, cleaning, and maybe running a fruit & veg shop if they were lucky!

The point is, until the 1950s, Australia WAS a European country. The Aboriginals didn't get the vote until the 1960s, and even now, the vast majority of Australians are of European descent, and Australia's laws and legal system are based on those of England, and when you think of the perspm that best sums up All That Is Right With Australia, you'll typically get an ANZAC or a Lighthorseman- in short, a young white male, in uniform, with a .303 rifle.

They represent Mateship, Doing Your Part, Courage Under Adversity, and Putting It All On The Line For Everyone Back Home- and a lot of the War Vets I've spoken to say that they didn't fight the Japanese and the Germans (and the Arabs) in WWII (and later the VietCong) only to have their kids move to the country and try and tell everyone how to run it.

So when I say "Our Way Or the Highway", I mean it like this: If you move to Australia from overseas, integrate into the Australian way of doing things or clear off. That doesn't mean not speaking your native language, observing your religious customs, etc- but it does mean not forcing them on others, and not complaining at things that you personally find offensive when no-one else has a problem with them (See: Recent controversy over Tree-Huggers and a minority of Muslims who are offended by "Christmas").

The same goes for your kids- they may be born in Australia, but if they don't like the culture, they're free to move somewhere else. It doesn't have to be a foreign country- just another area of Australia where their views are more likely to be tolerated (After all, Australia is a huge place).

I was born in NZ, and didn't like the direction the country was heading in, and so I exercised my right to move somewhere else (Australia), and I don't regret it for one moment. I know it's not easy moving countries, but I didn't stay in NZ and whinge about how much I hated the place- I did something about it and left, and I think that I, Australia, and New Zealand are all better for that. (And don't even think about quoting that line about how Kiwis moving to Australia improve the IQ of both countries! ;-) )

:eek: Is it? Damn, you guys have such a good reputation over here in Old Europe!

I used to be quite the patriot,till now. No doubt the feeling will come back, eventually, but right now I can't help but feel morbidly ashamed and dismayed. Quotes like the above...well, I'm not proud. I used to believe Australia was one of the best countries in the world to live in. A place where no matter who you were, where you are from, you could come and live in an apathetic centrist paradise. I am but 19 years old, and I have lived in 10 different Aussie towns/cities, attending 11 schools, living in 5 different States and Territories. All of my life, from corner to corner of this nation I have never seen such...HATE.
It destroys me to know that this is MY country. It never used to be like this (not in the last 50 years). The racism was always there, just like everywhere in the world, but it was always so inconvicted and apathetic. No one cared, not really. But now...I feel stupid. I really believe I, we as a nation, have lost something. Everyday I see my country moving to the right. This kind of thing only happens in countries like USA...(sigh)...

What the hell, are the rest of the world not allowed to pass comment on Australia?, nobody is saying that Australia is the only nation with problems regarding ethnic groups or indigenous problems what is getting right up our non-australian noses is the attitude of some Aussie's who have tried and failed to justify the actions of the barbaric mob that sparked this thread in the first place and seem to think that Australia is above criticism, if you cannot handle an open debate then switch your PC off. THIS IS NOT A CAMPAIGN AGAINST AUSTRALIA, clear enough for you.

Note I continued to say people can comment but random insults dont help anything and just anger people like me who want a real debate. Which seems to be prevented by people making stupid comments and then angered people replying in kind and no real debate happening

Surprising seeing as i thought all you guys did was get into drunken Brawls in Cairo.

This is the kind of thing I mean. This is not relevant. Its just a stupid off topic comment.

And in response. How about Tobruck?

Gah if you read some of the early posts people were making real comments then it turns into this free for all insult session (which I admit I became part of) becuase people like Santa Barbara and guys like this just say stupid things like these

Well hold on a moment. Even if we don't get into what's wrong with your statement on the surface, these people were assualted because of their ethnicity, not their religion. I can't really imagine a mob stopping and asking someone their religious beliefs before beating them.
Perhaps not. But in his case religion and ethnicity go hand in hand.

I used to be quite the patriot,till now. No doubt the feeling will come back, eventually, but right now I can't help but feel morbidly ashamed and dismayed. Quotes like the above...well, I'm not proud. I used to believe Australia was one of the best countries in the world to live in. A place where no matter who you were, where you are from, you could come and live in an apathetic centrist paradise. I am but 19 years old, and I have lived in 10 different Aussie towns/cities, attending 11 schools, living in 5 different States and Territories. All of my life, from corner to corner of this nation I have never seen such...HATE.
It destroys me to know that this is MY country. It never used to be like this (not in the last 50 years). The racism was always there, just like everywhere in the world, but it was always so inconvicted and apathetic. No one cared, not really. But now...I feel stupid. I really believe I, we as a nation, have lost something. Everyday I see my country moving to the right. This kind of thing only happens in countries like USA...(sigh)...

Actually I can kinda of agree. These days on matters of Australia I seem to swap between nilihistic apathy and intense rage at what is happening.

But if things like this happen, as others have said, it indicates major problems no matter the cuase and we need to adress them.

Paranoia is taking over.
It's not paranoia. Just the miracle that is multi-culturalism.

Perhaps not. But in his case religion and ethnicity go hand in hand.

No they dont. Lebanese are Islamic and Christain. And there are many different dominations of both including Maronites (the largest Christain group), Greek Orthodox, Amernian, Catholic, Syriac, Drews (an Islamic sect), Shiite and Sunnis.

Religion is not really a strong factor here, Lebanons civil war was down religious lines suggesting that religion is not a linking factor of ethnicity

No they dont. Lebanese are Islamic and Christain. And there are many different dominations of both including Maronites (the largest Christain group), Greek Orthodox, Amernian, Catholic, Syriac, Drews (an Islamic sect), Shiite and Sunnis.

Religion is not really a strong factor here, Lebanons civil war was down religious lines suggesting that religion is not a linking factor of ethnicity
I know there are christian lebanese. But are the lebanese in question, the rapistsdrugsealersrobbersetc....majority muslim or christian? I have a hunch you will find they are mostly Islamic.

Note I continued to say people can comment but random insults dont help anything and just anger people like me who want a real debate. Which seems to be prevented by people making stupid comments and then angered people replying in kind and no real debate happening

Agreed but the behaviour of some the proud aussies who have posted on this thread have resorted to unwarranted insults in ultra defensive hissy fits have been far worse in my opinion than most of those obviously not por-australia, we all want a debate otherwise why are we logged on?

Drews (an Islamic sect),

It's Druze.

I know there are christian lebanese. But are the lebanese in question, the rapistsdrugsealersrobbersetc....majority muslim or christian? I have a hunch you will find they are mostly Islamic.

Is that to imply that muslims are more inclined to crime than other folk? can one of you aussie's clarify something for me, in your national crime statistics do lebanese commit the majority of offences?

But if things like this happen, as others have said, it indicates major problems no matter the cuase and we need to adress them.

What are you supposed to do? I used to be an extremely convicted, motivated, and political individual. Now I can't help feeling powerless. I actually saw a group of men beating another a few days ago in eastlakes. I don't know, it just broke me. It wasn't reasonable. I could rationalise, argue, and debate as much as I want- hate isn't reasonable. What is one supposed to do? "Hey everybody! You've got it all wrong, the real problem here is..." Even if you could get a message out there, you would only be preaching to the choir. The people that count won't listen.

Christ! Listen to me, I've never been this...pessimistic about everything. Seriously though, all we can do wait for it to blow over and hope it doesn't happen again.

Please try to convince me otherwise, I would really apreciate it. Perhaps it is a perspective thing, but it really seems pointless. How do you defeat racism? Has anyone done it before? Where did it come from? I swear it wasn't always like this.

I mean riots! In sydney?! WTF?! I really just feel like packing up and moving to NZ.(Until it happens there...)

What are you supposed to do? I used to be an extremely convicted, motivated, and political individual. Now I can't help feeling powerless. I actually saw a group of men beating another a few days ago in eastlakes. I don't know, it just broke me. It wasn't reasonable. I could rationalise, argue, and debate as much as I want- hate isn't reasonable. What is one supposed to do? "Hey everybody! You've got it all wrong, the real problem here is..." Even if you could get a message out there, you would only be preaching to the choir. The people that count won't listen.

Christ! Listen to me, I've never been this...pessimistic about everything. Seriously though, all we can do wait for it to blow over and hope it doesn't happen again.

Please try to convince me otherwise, I would really apreciate it. Perhaps it is a perspective thing, but it really seems pointless. How do you defeat racism? Has anyone done it before? Where did it come from? I swear it wasn't always like this.

I mean riots! In sydney?! WTF?! I really just feel like packing up and moving to NZ.(Until it happens there...)

You can't really fight racism. All you can do is try to educate people and hope that they listen. Unfortunately, many people don't want to listen and will cling to their narrow ideas no matter how hard you try to show them different. This is true of people of ALL ethnicities. One of things that irritates me is this attitude that "it's only racism if a white person does it". There are racists on both sides, here.

But, as has been said before, it seems that this particular ethnicity is having a harder time fitting in than many others. From all the things I've seen, heard and read over the years, it seems to me that many people of that ethnic background simply aren't interested in living in a multicultural country, and on the other side, there are many people (of many ethnicities, not just the evil, racist whities) who don't seem to want them here, either. I'm not sure which came first, but that is the overall feeling I've gotten from the issue ever since I first began to hear about it.

I'm not really sure what can be done about it, without major compromises on both sides. And I get the impression that neither side is really willing to compromise.

I know there are christian lebanese. But are the lebanese in question, the rapistsdrugsealersrobbersetc....majority muslim or christian? I have a hunch you will find they are mostly Islamic.

Nope, despite what society and (strangely enough) the lebanese themselves would have you beleive, the vast majority are Christian (guess about 70ish%).

You see, the Lebanese who are currently causing trouble are the Australian born children and grandchildre of Migrants who came over between 40-100 years ago (most of them in the 60's). The initial immigrants who are ranging from 50+ years old now actually came to Australia in great respect of the country. They have no attitude problem at all.

However, the children who have grown up in the poorer areas of Sydney (which aren't really that bad, they're really not 'ghetto's') have developed a subculture of rebellion and general troublemaking. They like to seem more dangerous than they are (like, say, Punks in Britain).
More or less harmless you will find these guys (aged 15-25) engaging in light drug use/ trafficking, truancy, petty theft, and noise pollution in over done Hyundai excels. (Again, they aren't that poor, just..well isolated).

Most of them have masculinity complexes, and all of them are nice guys when they are not with their 'bros'. No matter what the media tells you Sydney doesn't truly have organised gangs as such. Lebo gangs would better be described as large loosely connected youths ranging from greek, italian, arab, lebo, even russians who all get pinned as lebo's. When you bash one up, then all of his mates use it as an excuse to get into a fight and show everyone how 'hard' they are. By this theory, If i have a mate who is lebanese (or knows a few lebos), than I am technically part of a lebo gang.

It really isnt a racial thing on behalf of the lebo's, more of a juvenile delinquent thing. What was racial was the group of 'Aussies' (Whatever the f that is) who were specifically hunting down lebos/arabs, when they should have been hunting juvenile delinquents (they shouldn't have been hunting anyone, but ..you know what i mean).

It is important to note the proportion of wannabe-lebs in these so called gangs as well. Heaps of Aussie kids dress and talk like lebs in areas where the leb thing is widespread. So in short it was racists vs delinquent youths

Is that to imply that muslims are more inclined to crime than other folk? can one of you aussie's clarify something for me, in your national crime statistics do lebanese commit the majority of offences?
I don't think so, petty crime yes, but widespread actual crime...hang on, I'll check...
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-ch3.pdf
No. Actuall Lebanese didn't even make it on to the list as a majority. As I said before, People like Yugoslavians, Balkans, Arabs, palestinians, even greeks and Italians will get rolled up as lebs in the event of trouble.

Nope, despite what society and (strangely enough) the lebanese themselves would have you beleive, the vast majority are Christian (guess about 70ish%).

You see, the Lebanese who are currently causing trouble are the Australian born children and grandchildre of Migrants who came over between 40-100 years ago (most of them in the 60's). The initial immigrants who are ranging from 50+ years old now actually came to Australia in great respect of the country. They have no attitude problem at all.

However, the children who have grown up in the poorer areas of Sydney (which aren't really that bad, they're really not 'ghetto's') have developed a subculture of rebellion and general troublemaking. They like to seem more dangerous than they are (like, say, Punks in Britain).
More or less harmless you will find these guys (aged 15-25) engaging in light drug use/ trafficking, truancy, petty theft, and noise pollution in over done Hyundai excels. (Again, they aren't that poor, just..well isolated).

Most of them have masculinity complexes, and all of them are nice guys when they are not with their 'bros'. No matter what the media tells you Sydney doesn't truly have organised gangs as such. Lebo gangs would better be described as large loosely connected youths ranging from greek, italian, arab, lebo, even russians who all get pinned as lebo's. When you bash one up, then all of his mates use it as an excuse to get into a fight and show everyone how 'hard' they are. By this theory, If i have a mate who is lebanese (or knows a few lebos), than I am technically part of a lebo gang.

It really isnt a racial thing on behalf of the lebo's, more of a juvenile delinquent thing. What was racial was the group of 'Aussies' (Whatever the f that is) who were specifically hunting down lebos/arabs, when they should have been hunting juvenile delinquents (they shouldn't have been hunting anyone, but ..you know what i mean).

It is important to note the proportion of wannabe-lebs in these so called gangs as well. Heaps of Aussie kids dress and talk like lebs in areas where the leb thing is widespread. So in short it was racists vs delinquent youths

Yeah, you make some good points here. Actually, I think you're probably more correct here than most of the other stuff has been, including my own.

Wannaba-Wogs are sort of like Australia's answer to the US's wiggas.

But, as has been said before, it seems that this particular ethnicity is having a harder time fitting in than many others. From all the things I've seen, heard and read over the years, it seems to me that many people of that ethnic background simply aren't interested in living in a multicultural country, and on the other side, there are many people (of many ethnicities, not just the evil, racist whities) who don't seem to want them here, either. I'm not sure which came first, but that is the overall feeling I've gotten from the issue ever since I first began to hear about it.


You know I don't really think it is that much about ethnicity as it seems. I mean, actual Lebanese don't make up a huge proportion of the 'troublemaker' population, from experience. Also, it's only the male Lebanese youths who cause this trouble, not the culture itself (The lebanese community actually condemns it and spends a lot of time/money trying unsuccessfully to combat youth delinquency amoungst male lebanese). While it's true young male lebs are trouble makers, this is also true of Russians, Yugoslavians, Arabs, italians, greeks, in fact, just about anyone (Including Aussies) who live in Sydney's southwest. Also, please note that Leb is quite often a term one would use to refer to any of these cultures ('Lebo' is more indicative of how someone dresses and behaves than where they were actually from).