NationStates Jolt Archive

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

Star Trek: Data

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?
Now HERE'S something worth arguing about!!!!
;)

Star Trek: More sex

Star Trek: Data
What about Lore?

Or the "new" guy they "found" on ST:Nemesis?
Oh, that irked me so ....

Star Trek: More sex
Ah, a Brannon Braga fan/alumni.
Sure worked out for him .... (Jeri Ryan)

What about Lore?

Or the "new" guy they "found" on ST:Nemesis?
Oh, that irked me so ....

Ok, so lore had a few moments. And Nemesis was a stupid movie.

Star Trek: Flying rubber puke; pipe-cleaner-and-felt aliens; and hey, Abe Lincoln hung out with Jim Kirk. I don't see Abe Lincoln hanging out with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Nope.

Star Wars, all the time. I watch both, but Star Wars' general storyline is better than anything Trek has ever done, period. Also, we have Lord Vader, arguably one of the greatest SF characters of all time. No foolin! Star Wars also has the lightsaber, the coolest SF weapon of all time. And, as my compadre Fidel Gutierrez noted earlier:
I mean, it's obivous, Star Destroyer vs Galaxy Class?
Death Star vs Borg Cube? COME ON!
Thats no moon, for gods sakes! :P
Let's not forget production quality either....Star Wars was better than Trek even back when "A New Hope" was in theaters originally...

Ok, so lore had a few moments. And Nemesis was a stupid movie.
It wasn't just that .... it was an UNNECESSARY movie.
I could infer from the acting, very early on, that even Patrick Stewart knew they were dooming TNG with the flick. There was a resignation in his inflection that betrayed the argument he was having with his clone .... choices, yadda yadda.
I think he took the check and spun off to be a voice for American Dad and A Christmas Carol, and left the carcass of TNG smelling, steaming and oozing on the parched highway of fleeting viewer interest.

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

Don't force me to drag my Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, or Pride And Prejudice? Who would win? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531) back out of retirement in retaliation.

Consider it my doomsday weapon.

Star Trek: Data

Surely C3PO is the least annoying and best artificial intelligence character ever made? Blasphemer!

Star Trek: Flying rubber puke; pipe-cleaner-and-felt aliens; and hey, Abe Lincoln hung out with Jim Kirk. I don't see Abe Lincoln hanging out with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Nope.
Yes, but Obi-Wan can at least hang out with a bunch of aliens that don't specifically derive from a hominid base pair with the only apparent variation is a consensual shame of their bodies and disproportionate cranial ridges.
Well, there was that cool episode where Spock massaged that giant lasagna.
Hey Dobbs, give me slack or give me death.

Don't force me to drag my Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, or Pride And Prejudice? Who would win? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531) back out of retirement in retaliation.

Consider it my doomsday weapon.

So who wants to take bets on how long before it's raised now? I give it about 10-20 minutes before the abomination rears it's head.

Surely C3PO is the least annoying and best artificial intelligence character ever made? Blasphemer!
Yes, but where C3PO was fluent in over 6 million forms of communication,
Data was versed in multiple techniques of sensuality.

Although C3PO spins a good yarn, Data'd probably leave me with a smile on my face.
And Data's sense of humour would leave me in stitches, seeing as how he has a "magnetic personality"!

Star Wars pwnz you n00bz. It is the 1337. :p

Don't force me to drag my Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, or Pride And Prejudice? Who would win? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531) back out of retirement in retaliation.

Consider it my doomsday weapon.
"We will bury you!!!"
*shakes his fist in the air, flits off to sup Vodka*

Hey Dobbs, give me slack or give me death.
Well either you got it or you don't, so if you need to borrow a bit you're welcome to it - just don't go suckin' it, mind.

So who wants to take bets on how long before it's raised now? I give it about 10-20 minutes before the abomination rears it's head.
I'm thinking within the "10" range.
Then the follow-ups .... Coke vs. Pepsi,
Ford vs. Chevy,
Tastes Great vs. Less Filling,
Old Kolchak vs. New Kolchak .....

The chasm divides us evermore, evermore.... :(

Well either you got it or you don't, so if you need to borrow a bit you're welcome to it - just don't go suckin' it, mind.
So, how were your multiple partners today, dear?

Connie or Prairie Squid?
This is content for a well-reasoned, well-seasoned debate, IMHO.

EDIT: Btw, thanks for the 'frop.

Ever read Three-Fisted Tales of Bob? It's worth it.
That and High Weirdness by Mail.

Don't force me to drag my Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, or Pride And Prejudice? Who would win? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531) back out of retirement in retaliation.

Consider it my doomsday weapon.

Hahah you want to resort to Victorian literature? I have been wondering how the emphasis on family secrets and hidden family history in works like Oliver Twist and The Moonstone reflect upon the culture and mindset of the period? But maybe that is just me. :p

Well, I thought a lot about the coming of the Xists, what with it being Sunday and all, a hangover pseudo-spiritual rem-nant sort of a day, and having spent most of the morning and early afternoon in a caffeine-and-frop cycle of fasting, paid a visit to the local burger emporium to eat the Hell out of food I didn't have to cook. Then it was on to the grocery store to load up a few essentials, but mostly heaping piles of tasty gnosh-y things that'll come in handy later this month, when the Pinks let everybody take a couple days off for Jesus' birthday.

I saw some Yetis in the park walking home with my groceries. They had the frop going on, the Slack was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I live in a part of town where people know who Bob Dobbs is. Many of them have, at one point or another, thought of or even followed through on sending in their thirty bucks to Bob. I even made a pilgrimage to Cleveland to hand-deliver money to Ivan Stang on behalf of a half-dozen or so unsaved or latent Subgenii. I wear my Dobbshead t-shirts with pride.

But I'm getting sleepy.


Edit* yes, I have first editions of both those titles, Straughn - thanks.

Firefly/Serenity pwnz both.

I'm a sucker for hard scifi, which is rarely seen outside of literature. And while Firefly isn't quite as hard-scifi as an Arthur C. Clark or Greg Bear novel, it's the closest thing to hard scifi I've ever seen on TV.

Star Wars and Star Trek both disregard the laws of physics so blatantly and ridiculously that they really shouldn't be called "science" fiction at all. "Futurist fantasy" or something similar would be a much more fitting term.

Hahah you want to resort to Victorian literature? I have been wondering how the emphasis on family secrets and hidden family history in works like Oliver Twist and The Moonstone reflect upon the culture and mindset of the period?

Surely The Woman In White would be a better example here than The Moonstone (ignoring the fact that the internal chronology of the novel is all over the shop)? It seems to offer an embarassment of such secrets compared to The Moonstone's single one.

Surely The Woman In White would be a better example here than The Moonstone (ignoring the fact that the internal chronology of the novel is all over the shop)? It seems to offer an embarassment of such secrets compared to The Moonstone's single one.

Yes, I can see that, Wilkie Collins is an important player when considering many generalizations of Victorian literature and probably a better match than The Moonstone for the topic.

But I'm interested have you ever read Fingersmith by Sarah Waters?

Yes, I can see that, Wilkie Collins is an important player when considering many generalizations of Victorian literature and probably a better match than The Moonstone for the topic.

Eh? WC wrote TWiW as well as The Moonstone. I think it might just be a clumsy sentence construction that's got me confused here.

But I'm interested have you ever read Fingersmith by Sarah Waters?

No, never felt the urge.

Eh? WC wrote TWiW as well as The Moonstone. I think it might just be a clumsy sentence construction that's got me confused here.



No, never felt the urge.

No I actually got confused for a second and thought someone else wrote the Moonstone. But regardless you should take up Fingersmith, it's pretty good.

Well, I thought a lot about the coming of the Xists, what with it being Sunday and all, a hangover pseudo-spiritual rem-nant sort of a day, and having spent most of the morning and early afternoon in a caffeine-and-frop cycle of fasting, paid a visit to the local burger emporium to eat the Hell out of food I didn't have to cook. Then it was on to the grocery store to load up a few essentials, but mostly heaping piles of tasty gnosh-y things that'll come in handy later this month, when the Pinks let everybody take a couple days off for Jesus' birthday.

I saw some Yetis in the park walking home with my groceries. They had the frop going on, the Slack was so thick you could cut it with a knife. I live in a part of town where people know who Bob Dobbs is. Many of them have, at one point or another, thought of or even followed through on sending in their thirty bucks to Bob. I even made a pilgrimage to Cleveland to hand-deliver money to Ivan Stang on behalf of a half-dozen or so unsaved or latent Subgenii. I wear my Dobbshead t-shirts with pride.

But I'm getting sleepy.


Edit* yes, I have first editions of both those titles, Straughn - thanks.
Most excellent. *bows*
So when you read The Real Story, did the exact same thing happen to you that happened to me?
The reader shifted his weight ....

And what do you think of Bob's visage on the Sublime album? Is that kind of Sub- he's talking about?

*queries one, queries many*

Star Wars 4-6 rules ...
and Natalie Portman :D

Star Wars pwnz you n00bz. It is the 1337. :p
Star Wars!

its a toss up really

overall story: star wars
script: star trek (movies at least)

star trek. by miles.

should be a poll

its a toss up really

overall story: star wars
script: star trek (movies at least)
Further toss up ...
Amidala or Troi?

Leia or T'Pol?

Actually, i should include Major Kira, Dax, and Seven of Nine, Robin Lefler, The Dauphin ....
hey, i'm no longer convinced it's a toss up.

Star Wars 4-6 rules ...
and Natalie Portman :D
She nummy. :P

I should also mention Mirror Universe Kira as well. Boy howdy with a whip!

Further toss up ...
Amidala or Troi?

Leia or T'Pol?

Actually, i should include Major Kira, Dax, and Seven of Nine, Robin Lefler, The Dauphin ....
hey, i'm no longer convinced it's a toss up.


even more of a toss up...

movie endings: star trek (especially when the enterprise blows up or crashes. damn drunken co-pilots)
visual effects: star wars (no debate)

Don't force me to drag my Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, or Pride And Prejudice? Who would win? (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=390531) back out of retirement in retaliation.

Consider it my doomsday weapon.

Hans Blix is currently en route. :p

Can honestly say I've been having this argument with a frind of mine for about 10 years (bare in mind I'm only 18) He refuses to believe but George Lucas likes Star Trek better. He has been known to say that when he first made A New Hope he didn't care what success he got from the box office or from critics, he just wanted 1 Star Wars table at a Star Trek Convention.

Can honestly say I've been having this argument with a frind of mine for about 10 years (bare in mind I'm only 18) He refuses to believe but George Lucas likes Star Trek better. He has been known to say that when he first made A New Hope he didn't care what success he got from the box office or from critics, he just wanted 1 Star Wars table at a Star Trek Convention.

Welcome to the forum, glad to see you...now back to the thread

The first three Star Wars movies.

Hands down, changed the world...

Definitely Star Wars:
1. Lightsabers
2. Obi wan kenobi (the original)
3. Leia in a gold bikini

However out of star trek i prefer the original series.

Man, I don't even want to compare those two. I love StarWars. I love StarTrek. What's the big deal?

The only rules that help you survive in both universes are:

1) Don't piss off Darth Vader http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/duell.gif

2) Don't wear red shirts on away missions http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/buegeln.gif

It's really that easy.

1) Don't piss off Darth Vader http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/duell.gif

best. smilie. ever! :p


kirk: "i need three men for this away mission.... spock, bones... and ensign ricky"
ricky: "ah crap."

:D (yay for subtle FG quotes!)

best. smilie. ever! :p

kirk: "i need three men for this away mission.... spock, bones... and ensign ricky"
ricky: "ah crap."

:D (yay for subtle FG quotes!)
Thanks, PM ;)

I remember watching TOS with my little sister back in the days and she's like "I know those two guys, but who is that in a red shirt?"
I started snickering and answered that I hadn't seen that guy before - and that we were unlikely to ever see him again... (He died 5 minutes later)

I'd have to say Star Wars over all. Star Trek was awesome in places, but it had a lot failings. The main one was undoubtedly the technobabble, which got rather over the top at times and was at times blatantly implausible. Another one was the way some plot concepts tended to get reused to almost nonsensical levels ("magic ion storm" and variants, mainly).

And of course, as some people have pointed, out, the Federation seems to have purged all music from after 1950 and everyone loves Shakespeare as though it were a law.:D

And of course, as some people have pointed, out, the Federation seems to have purged all music from after 1950 and everyone loves Shakespeare as though it were a law.:DWell, some music of this time wouldn't be missed:D

edit: would be fun to see a Fed vessel hailing an enemey vessel with 'We are the champions' playing.:p

Star Wars, hands down. Star Trek is great...if you're a big wuss. :p

Well, some music of this time wouldn't be missed:D

edit: would be fun to see a Fed vessel hailing an enemey vessel with 'We are the champions' playing.:p

Wonder what kind of sound system you could fit in the Enterprise? Fit it with a body kit. Paint it orange. Chrome the nacelles. Give the crew baggie clothes and have Picard hailing people saying "What beeyotch?!?"

Star Wars tech is much more robust, more practical-appearing, more ergonomic, more safe.

How many warp cores did Picard have to eject?

Star Trek has more hot and loose babes, though, so at least you die with a smile on your face.;)

Ahhh, gotta stick with SW.

I want to live to get to the other side of the galaxy!:)

Star Trek has more hot and loose babes, though, so at least you die with a smile on your face.;)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Ezri_Dax.jpg/250px-Ezri_Dax.jpg

Yummy, but I still hafta go with Star Wars.

Star Wars tech is much more robust, more practical-appearing, more ergonomic, more safe.

pah! SW tech is made-up-on-the-spot crap, with seemingly little continutiy and practically no explaination on how it all works (outside the realms of fan fiction and the books)... unlike ST where its vaguely believable, continuous accross the franchise (and hence has much more staying power/credibility in my eyes), and if you watch just a few eps of ST you can piece together how stuff works precisely because things go wrong all the time.

i hate sci fi where they don't explain how stuff is supposed to be working *glares at farscape*

force,death star,R2-D2,laia in metallic bikini....come on the question is too easy!


SW video games rock.



but....ST has spock and he looks good a bikini too....tough choice. lol

For (http://www.sith.nl/multimedia/characters/leia/rotj/bikini.jpg)

teh (http://www.sith.nl/multimedia/characters/leia/rotj/bigngold.jpg)

WIN (http://www.sith.nl/multimedia/characters/leia/rotj/barge1.jpg)!

:cool:

Star Trek is my choice.

Transporters are really handy. Six of Nine isn't wearing any clothes.

And if you kill someone in Star Wars, there's all this mess left over. Whether you use a blaster or light saber, there's something left over to put on the old funeral pyre - which I don't have time to build every time I get the itch.

The phaser is neat and clean. Pull trigger, repeat as necessary. Nice point and click interface. And the target turns into smoking footprints which can be wiped up with a Swiffer duster.

And if you kill someone in Star Wars, there's all this mess left over. Whether you use a blaster or light saber, there's something left over to put on the old funeral pyre - which I don't have time to build every time I get the itch.

Guess who wasn't paying attention during the first onscreen lightsabre fight?

Guess who wasn't paying attention during the first onscreen lightsabre fight?

That neatness only occurs when dead Jedis just fade away...

The phaser is neat and clean. Pull trigger, repeat as necessary. Nice point and click interface. And the target turns into smoking footprints which can be wiped up with a Swiffer duster.

Depends on the setting.

Depends on the setting.
I think I left mine on "Vaporize".

the original 3 star wars movies arent nesscessarily better than the new ones. All the new ones are are a clone of the old ones with better effects.
(just watched original trilogy and acting is terrible)

thus Star Wars will always be more entertaining than Star Trek.


but those damn special editions almost made me go to the Trek Side (Singing in ROTJ.. Shame on you Lucas..should have saved the singing for the Great Ewok Adventure)


also heres a question, who looks more threatening?

A. Someone holding a Blaster
B. Someone holding a phaser

the weapons in star wars are much much better.

I think I left mine on "Vaporize".

Mine's set on "stun." Only way I can get dates... :(

(...)
Would be fun to see a Fed vessel hailing an enemey vessel with 'We are the champions' playing.:p
Isn't that how the first Federation-Romulan war started?

Well besides Star Wars just kicking Star treks but, Star Wars has Storm troopers.

They will not hesitate to kick worfs butt!

Star wars would beat star trek any day. :mp5:

even more of a toss up...

movie endings: star trek (especially when the enterprise blows up or crashes. damn drunken co-pilots)
visual effects: star wars (no debate)
Agreed, mostly ... however it should be noted that it was irritating that the revamp of Episode IV of SW added that completely unnecessary and illogical equatorial pulse on the destruction of the first Death Star. WTF?

EDIT: I should point out i also hated it when they destroyed Praxis the same way in ST VI:The Undiscovered Country.

The main one was undoubtedly the technobabble, which got rather over the top at times and was at times blatantly implausible. Another one was the way some plot concepts tended to get reused to almost nonsensical levels ("magic ion storm" and variants, mainly).

Yeah well a big round of applause for Brannon Braga on that.
The Big R at least did his friggin' homework before most episodes, and ya gotta admit, TOS had quite a few things going on way ahead of their time.

Star Wars. No arguments.

Star Wars. No arguments.
Whaddya mean, no arguments?
WTH are you here for then?
*grr*

I'd have to say Star Wars over all. Star Trek was awesome in places, but it had a lot failings. The main one was undoubtedly the technobabble, which got rather over the top at times and was at times blatantly implausible. Another one was the way some plot concepts tended to get reused to almost nonsensical levels ("magic ion storm" and variants, mainly).


As a long time Trekker, I must disagree. I like Star Wars (Wookie!), but my love is Star Trek. Most--not all admittedly, but most of Star Trek's technology IS based on real-world science. The "subspace" mentioned? It's a flaw in some mathematical equations (about astronomy, if I remember the source right). Silicon-based life? A viable alternative to carbon-based life; it's below carbon on the periodic table. (Anyway, when was the last time you saw an SF FILM totally based on real science?)
The one thing I will say for Roddenberry was that he made huge leaps in getting the public to consider morality issues. First interracial kiss on television, and all that... he even did episodes based totally on gender bias and racial prejudice. The Great Bird of the Galaxy was definitely ahead of his time in content... but Lucas was the pioneer of the magic world of special effects and CGI.

Yes, I'm a total nerd. (Know the difference between a Federation phaser and a Klingon disrupter? The phaser heats things till they vaporize; the disrupter shakes them apart into individual molecules. More than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure. ;) )

Star Trek: Flying rubber puke; pipe-cleaner-and-felt aliens; and hey, Abe Lincoln hung out with Jim Kirk. I don't see Abe Lincoln hanging out with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Nope.
ahh... Nice to meet a fellow TOS fan.

let's not forget...
Balance of Terror
"Damit Jim, I'm a Doctor, not a Bricklayer"
and doesn't Scotty still hold the record for number of deaths in a series?

ok people i have looked it up, and well after revew of data given by tecknical books a star trek Galaxy Class ship is about as powerful as Boba Fetts Slave 1 a 20M tall craft...not to mention the plain power in numbers (Federashon fleets class al ships Shuttles, Fighters, Capital ships whatever in thier fleet numbers. they have a total of 7,000 some ships in thier fleet. the Empire has 13,000+ Star Destroyers and about 10-20 smaller Capital ships for each of them. and 72 fighters per Star Destroyer. so based on this the Empire could take over the Galaxy with a few hundred Star Destroyers. and if you give me a second i'll look up how many Borg Cubes a Death star is worth

sorry for my spelling

ahh... Nice to meet a fellow TOS fan.
We seem rare on this forum... not sure about the Scotty thing, but probably.
Want more trivia? In "Where No Man Has Gone Before", remember how Kirk's friend Gary had eyes that went all silvery? Foil contact lenses; they could only be worn for half an hour, because after that their eyes would start to overheat. And the way he tilts his head back? The holes in the contacts to let him see were in the wrong place, so he had to do that to see.
And contrary to popular belief, the exact phrase, "Beam me up, Scotty," is never heard in the original series. Fear the Trekker trivia!

“Well, gentlemen, we all have to take a chance— especially if one is all you have.” -Kirk, “Tomorrow is Yesterday”, TOS

ok people i have looked it up, and well after revew of data given by tecknical books a star trek Galaxy Class ship is about as powerful as Boba Fetts Slave 1 a 20M tall craft...

Out of curiosity, what book (or books) are you using? I think there's a couple floating around for each show of Star Trek, and at least one or two for Star Wars...

with SW weapons a Tactical Borg Cube has about this for weapons
184 laser cannons
184 Proton topedo launchers
92 Ion cannons
92 Cuncushon millile launchers


the DS1(DS2 was stronger in almost every way BTW) has

6,250 Turbo Lasers
6,250 Laser Cannons
2,500 Ion Cannons
1 Super Laser
7,200 Fighters
21,000 slave one sised craft
4 light crusers

I'd have to say Star Wars over all. Star Trek was awesome in places, but it had a lot failings. The main one was undoubtedly the technobabble, which got rather over the top at times and was at times blatantly implausible. Another one was the way some plot concepts tended to get reused to almost nonsensical levels ("magic ion storm" and variants, mainly).

And of course, as some people have pointed, out, the Federation seems to have purged all music from after 1950 and everyone loves Shakespeare as though it were a law.:D
technobable... like Mitachlorians?

Plot concepts like Jedi Knights being sent to Naboo to investigate the Blockade, yet they didn't report back to the Senate what they saw and experienced to get the Republic going?
or that apparently children older than 10 are too old to be trained in the ways of the Jedi?
or that a Padawan could hide his marriage from the council of elders who (in Yoda's Case) could see into the future?
or that Single seat fighters can traverse between solar systems and still have enough life support to keep them alive?
or the reasoning to erase C3-PO's Memory but keep R2-D2's intact?
Oh, and let's not forget Yoda's line. "With the Sith, there are alway two. A Master and Apprentice." So if Darth Maul Died in Episode 1, Where did Count Doku come from? Man, Darth Sideous did some really quick training with his new apprentice.
and for your information, they did have music in Star Trek. Money, was missing, but music was there.

Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections(not sure i trust this one much)

and the Star Trek Next Generation Technical Manual

We seem rare on this forum... not sure about the Scotty thing, but probably.
Want more trivia? In "Where No Man Has Gone Before", remember how Kirk's friend Gary had eyes that went all silvery? Foil contact lenses; they could only be worn for half an hour, because after that their eyes would start to overheat. And the way he tilts his head back? The holes in the contacts to let him see were in the wrong place, so he had to do that to see.
And contrary to popular belief, the exact phrase, "Beam me up, Scotty," is never heard in the original series. Fear the Trekker trivia!

“Well, gentlemen, we all have to take a chance— especially if one is all you have.” -Kirk, “Tomorrow is Yesterday”, TOS
yep. knew about the "Beam Me Up."

But here's one trivia you might not know.

Many of the old cast of TOS made apperances in later series. but did you know that so did a critter?

an acutal Tribble, the same one used in the TOS Episode, "Trouble with Tribbles" made an appearance in "Trials and Tribulations". not old footage, nor a mockup/rebuilt, but the actual prop. the Writer for Trouble with Tribbles kept one as a souvenir. so when they did the DS9 episode, he and his souvenir made a cameo apperance. After they get grilled by Kirk, the DS9 crew leave the transporter room and into a hall filled with tribbles. all of them were made for the episode, but the writer (the man in the red shirt) is petting one... his original tribble from the original Episode.

technobable... like Mitachlorians?

Plot concepts like Jedi Knights being sent to Naboo to investigate the Blockade, yet they didn't report back to the Senate what they saw and experienced to get the Republic going?
or that apparently children older than 10 are too old to be trained in the ways of the Jedi?
or that a Padawan could hide his marriage from the council of elders who (in Yoda's Case) could see into the future?
or that Single seat fighters can traverse between solar systems and still have enough life support to keep them alive?
or the reasoning to erase C3-PO's Memory but keep R2-D2's intact?
Oh, and let's not forget Yoda's line. "With the Sith, there are alway two. A Master and Apprentice." So if Darth Maul Died in Episode 1, Where did Count Doku come from? Man, Darth Sideous did some really quick training with his new apprentice.
and for your information, they did have music in Star Trek. Money, was missing, but music was there.

they where sent to end the blockade, and you should know how that ended up..

the age thing has to do with attachment to loved ones...

Yoda's ability was being blocked to some point by Sideous, and Yoda can't see all the future for anything, not to mention "uncertin the future is" is something he has said. and Jedi do not commenly probe others minds and can block other from probing the mind.

R2 droids are equiped with a memory box that can not be cracked, at least not with thier current teck, for all we know tryng to view the info would destroy it. and you can't really make an R2 talk

as for the two sith thing, it basicaly meens once one of the sith dies a new one is trained to take its place

Oh, and let's not forget Yoda's line. "With the Sith, there are alway two. A Master and Apprentice." So if Darth Maul Died in Episode 1, Where did Count Doku come from? Man, Darth Sideous did some really quick training with his new apprentice.

Dooku used to be a jedi; a jedi master, in fact. That's why there was that "quick training." Sidious didn't have to do any of it!!

and for your information, they did have music in Star Trek. Money, was missing, but music was there.
To be fair, they did reuse some of the songs in different episodes. But the music they used was great, and it fit the scenes, so I never much cared.

And remember, people, for the original series, the budget was cut after the first season, and by the third season it was cut so far back that they didn't have enough money to make many more sets for individual episodes; that's why the season 3 shows are mostly set on the Enterprise itself, or used existing sets (and why most of those episodes aren't considered as good by most fans.)

And I have to agree with JuNii... both Star Trek and Star Wars have occasional plot holes, but Star Wars is supposed to work as one continual story, broken into sections; Star Trek was designed in standalone episodes, without story arcs. That trend continued (more or less) through all of the spin-offs, making perfect continuity a little less vital.

Silly dad, for getting me hooked on Star Trek... saw it at eight, got hooked at eleven. Meh. I'll always be a Trekker at heart. :D

Overall I prefer Star Trek just because some of the mysticism and the explanations (The Force) in the Star Wars movies is rather cutesy and forced. Cut rate Shakepeare, in my book. Plus the dialogue is considerably better as a whole In Star Trek. I mean that in a broad general sense.

That being said, I like both of them. III - Revenge of the Sith almost made up for the last two abominations, I - Phantom Menace, and II - Attack Of The Clones.

Star Trek, because over 50% of its episodes don't suck. Can't say the same for Star Wars, I fear.

Overall I prefer Star Trek just because some of the mysticism and the explanations (The Force) in the Star Wars movies is rather cutesy and forced. Cut rate Shakepeare, in my book. Plus the dialogue is considerably better as a whole In Star Trek. I mean that in a broad general sense.

Of course, you could kind of stretch things and declare that the force is just quantum mechanics... a jedi's mind trained to "observe" what they want to happen, and that observation makes it real. Definitely a stretch, though.

(I beg forgiveness. My dad's an engineer who majored in physics. I am far too curious for my own good. I know lots of weird stuff.)

OK, simple answer....

The best are the first 3 Star Wars films (or episodes 4, 5 and 6, if u like) with Jedi remaining a firm favourite...

Then Star Trek TNG....

Then the other Star Treks (never realy got into the Deep Space/Intruder or whatever it was but looked ok)....

Then things you have the likes of Pride and Prejudice, Stallone's remake of Get Carter, the new Dukes of Hazzard movie... pretty much any old crap....

THEN come the new Star Wars movies... just a betrayal as far as I'm concerned... come on: Jar Jar Binks? That was a character just waiting for an immediate light-saber accident...

Anyway, that's my two-penneth :)

I like Star Trek better for alot of reasons. You can't really compare the two since one is mainly a TV show and the other mainly (I should say only 6) movies. Also Star Wars showed a tier 3 civilization, while Star Trek's only a tier 2 civilization, so you can't really compare their technological advancements. Star Trek has countless memorable quotes, countless allusions to literature and culture of today, not to mention a very optimistic view on life and the future, the Federation and all... Star Wars is mainly just illusions, magic, mysticism, better weapons, better special effects, more action-oriented, it doesn't have much inspiration on our normal daily lives. And this is what I find attractive in Star Trek, because at the essence of nearly every episode and movie (except some TOS and all ENT), were some sort of message alluding to our normal lives, whether they were well shot and acted, that is simply of secondary concern. Overall I think Star Wars is for children, and Star Trek for a more mature audience.

Star Wars. Its just better. From the aliens to the story, characters, tech, and universe.

Lucas may have sidelined it a bit with the first two episodes and hiring some less than great actors for the prequels, but even then it is just a better science fiction concept than Star Trek.

Star Trek's only grace are TNG's powerful actors. The rest of it is commy b.s.

Star Trek's only grace are TNG's powerful actors. The rest of it is commy b.s.

TNG was and probably always will be the best Star Trek.

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

Clearly, for the sake of William Shatner's musical career ALONE, Star Trek is far better. Who could forget Captain Kirk's version of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" or "Common People" with Ben Folds?! And let's not forget Mr. Spock's song "Bilbo Baggins"!!

The rest of it is commy b.s.
Socialist B.S., not commie B.S. ... get it right.
And per Shatner's music history .... well, i'm sure the ComChan presentation last night of Last Laugh 2005 gave him good props, him being Satan and all.

Mum: You know what they say, sir: "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Gimpy: [over radio] What movie is that from?
Mum: Uh...uh...
Guy: Just tell him it's Star Wars.
Mum: Star Wars.
Gimpy: Excellent

Undergrads is Hilarious.

Depends on what you want to include in which is better.
Only comparing ST TOS with SW first three episodes would IMNSHO put them on par.
However when you include all the ST crap from TNG on in and the so-so first three chapters of SW, it's SW that wins.

ok people i have looked it up, and well after revew of data given by tecknical books a star trek Galaxy Class ship is about as powerful as Boba Fetts Slave 1 a 20M tall craft...not to mention the plain power in numbers (Federashon fleets class al ships Shuttles, Fighters, Capital ships whatever in thier fleet numbers. they have a total of 7,000 some ships in thier fleet. the Empire has 13,000+ Star Destroyers and about 10-20 smaller Capital ships for each of them. and 72 fighters per Star Destroyer. so based on this the Empire could take over the Galaxy with a few hundred Star Destroyers. and if you give me a second i'll look up how many Borg Cubes a Death star is worth

sorry for my spelling
you're actually forgetting a number of key technologies

such as star trek's sheilds, which pwn anything in SW (bar maybe the planetary sheild from endor). i mean flying through a asteroid field in SW is a perilous activity, while in ST the deflector and sheilds simply push the asteroids out of the way and protect the ship nicely. just an example of the strength of ST shields...


then there's accuracy. SW blasters may be more powerful than ST phasers, but ST captains can target specific coordinates on anything they're shooting at, hence making any form of coordinated attack - even on something as large as a star destroyer - many times more deadly. it also gives ST a tactical advantage in that federation ships could simply disable the (massive and stupidly-big-target) engines on SW ships, leaving them 'sitting ducks' and pick them off one at a time afterwards.
ok so luke was able to specifically target the power core (or whatever it was) on the SD, but thats largely cos they would have been heat-seeking and besides, that's still the only time where a particular part of a ship has been targeted...
plus the photon and quantom torpedoes, comparible in power to SW weapons, and while having limited stock they can also be targeted in this way, and rapid-fired.


damn there used to be some good sites about about this but i can't find the best/most complete one now :(
here's a good one to get started tho http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html


with SW weapons a Tactical Borg Cube has about this for weapons
184 laser cannons
184 Proton topedo launchers
92 Ion cannons
92 Cuncushon millile launchers


the DS1(DS2 was stronger in almost every way BTW) has

6,250 Turbo Lasers
6,250 Laser Cannons
2,500 Ion Cannons
1 Super Laser
7,200 Fighters
21,000 slave one sised craft
4 light crusers
yes it makes so much sense to compare a giant flying moon of a ship to a relatively small, individual ship of noncomparable stature. :rolleyes:
for a start there's one DS (at a time), when there are tens of thousands of borg cubes...


Star Wars. Its just better. From the aliens to the story, characters, tech, and universe.

Lucas may have sidelined it a bit with the first two episodes and hiring some less than great actors for the prequels, but even then it is just a better science fiction concept than Star Trek.

Star Trek's only grace are TNG's powerful actors. The rest of it is commy b.s.
pfft star trek is just better. from the aliens to the story, characters, tech, universe, and acting... imho

and the best part about ST is its more than just "cowboys in space": (pretty much) each episode is some kind of morality play, and if you look past the sci fi you find some deep ethics and powerful philiosophy and thoughts covered in the episodes.
as a result, a single episode of TNG is so much more than the whole of SW.


and besides, commie bs is good :D

you're actually forgetting a number of key technologies

such as star trek's sheilds, which pwn anything in SW (bar maybe the planetary sheild from endor). i mean flying through a asteroid field in SW is a perilous activity, while in ST the deflector and sheilds simply push the asteroids out of the way and protect the ship nicely. just an example of the strength of ST shields...

The problem being that no naturally occuring asteroid field has the densities observed of the SW asteroid fields.
The fact that the deflector is a tractor/repulsor that sweeps the path infront of the ship for micrometeorites and smaller particles.
And then there is the problem that affects just about all of the ST TNG and further series, a weapon/shield is as weak or strong as the script writers want them to be.
A good example of this is the asteroid in which the Pegasus is embedded, that one would take about 300 or so photon torpedos to just pulverize (despite it being so hollow the enterprise could fly into it). Then there is the episode in Voyager where one of the same type of torpedo is fired on a similar sized asteroid and the crew is astonished it isn't vapourized. It is just not possible to infer from the episodes what weapon/shield strengths are.
That only leaves a document that has been classed as mere speculation (the tech manual) to get data from on weapon and shield strengths.
In this SW has an advantage since their version of the tech manual has been approved by Lucas.
If comparing those documents side by side then SW weaponry and shielding is magnitudes stronger then ST weaponry and shielding.


then there's accuracy. SW blasters may be more powerful than ST phasers, but ST captains can target specific coordinates on anything they're shooting at, hence making any form of coordinated attack - even on something as large as a star destroyer - many times more deadly. it also gives ST a tactical advantage in that federation ships could simply disable the (massive and stupidly-big-target) engines on SW ships, leaving them 'sitting ducks' and pick them off one at a time afterwards.
ok so luke was able to specifically target the power core (or whatever it was) on the SD, but thats largely cos they would have been heat-seeking and besides, that's still the only time where a particular part of a ship has been targeted...
plus the photon and quantom torpedoes, comparible in power to SW weapons, and while having limited stock they can also be targeted in this way, and rapid-fired.

The problem with the sitting duck is that a stardestroyer in motion has almost less maneuverability then that sitting duck. As a result the entire thing is studded with weapons pointing in all directions (and then there is the complement of fighters to prevent people from sneaking up on it).
You seem to forget one thing about those torpedos that Luke fired on the death star. They were not heat seeking otherwise any shot by any pilot should have been able to hit that section but only Luke, who incidentally turned of what ever targetting equipment was involved with the torpedos, was capable of doing it using the force. Also they performed an almost impossible 90 degrees turn in just a meter or two going at at least several hundred kilometers/hour. If they can do that there is no way anything the Federation has that can avoid those torpedos.
There are probably more times where specific ship sections were targetted in SW, the one I can remember easily were the engines on the ship that Leia tried to escape on with the death star plans.
Oh and you might want to explain that if ST ships are so good at hitting targets how it comes that they generally miss targets that are flying in straight lines or do graceful slow turns.


damn there used to be some good sites about about this but i can't find the best/most complete one now :(
here's a good one to get started tho http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

The site is fairly one sided I've to say. For example implying that a blaster can't be that powerful since a glancing hit only caused a wound on an arm instead of killing the target. Or having to resort to the novelization of the movie and selecting a part that contradicts the movie to show that the blasters as not that useful.

Heh accidentally stumbled over who the guy behind the website is. He's not only despised by the pro Star Wars people it seems that he's so hated by the pro Star Trek people that they'd rather never want to hear from him and his (krank) arguments again.



yes it makes so much sense to compare a giant flying moon of a ship to a relatively small, individual ship of noncomparable stature. :rolleyes:
for a start there's one DS (at a time), when there are tens of thousands of borg cubes...

Ok then replace the moon with star destroyers. More reasonable sized (but according to the tech manuals still way stronger in weaponry and shielding).
Depending on the count there are between tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of those. (If you'd follow up the same count of ships as with the cubes you'd end up with at least 2.5 million star destroyers, about 2.5 per system controlled, where the borg have about 4000 systems and the empire about a million)

heh, ok you want a better match up of ships based on info provided

Galaxy class ship has
2 laser cannons
2 Proton topedo launchers
1 Ion cannons
1 Cuncushon millile launchers
(note a Laser Cannon is an anti fighter weapon and will do very little against a ship the size of a Correlian Corvette(about 1/10th the size of a commen SD)

Star Destroyer very in class but the most commen includes this for weapons

60 TurobLasers
60 Ion Cannons
30 Slave 1 sized ships (about as strong as a Galaxy class ship)
72 fighters, normaly poor in type but can be as powerful as a the Slave 1

not to mention that the Federathon has only a few ships as powerful as a Galaxy class, the Empire has thousands of SDs


and as Whallop said the ST weapons and shields very. but i noticed that ST shields never seem to do very good against enemy weapons offten droping by 30% after the first hit...SW shields last much longer.

and again Luke only got the shot into the DS1 with the force. and the target wass shielded from enemy weapons. a Photon torpedo is charged with energy i do not think it would even enter the target if the shot was good.

weapons are very much in faver of SW ships. based on data from technical manuals it would take 1 or so hits from a Turbolaser to take out ST ships shields, it would take a fleet of ST ships and a few minutes of attacking to take out a Star destroyers shields.

and don't get me started on Ground battles



sorry for the bad spelling

Honestly, which moron in a TIE fighter would attack a StarFleet vessel such as the Enterprise D or E or the Akira class, even in great numbers?

They'd be like "assume attack formation" and then the SF captain goes "fire phasers at will"; pew pew pew: all gone.

Not to mention the nice idea of beaming shit which goes boom aboard other vessels - or simply beaming the pilots out of their TIEs...

On the other hand...

http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/borg.gifhttp://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/sithlord.gif

Honestly, which moron in a TIE fighter would attack a StarFleet vessel such as the Enterprise D or E or the Akira class, even in great numbers?

They'd be like "assume attack formation" and then the SF captain goes "fire phasers at will"; pew pew pew: all gone.

Not to mention the nice idea of beaming shit which goes boom aboard other vessels - or simply beaming the pilots out of their TIEs...

On the other hand...

http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/borg.gifhttp://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/sithlord.gif

thats why the EMpire brain washes its solders to do its bidding. all the Ties really need to do is fly and fire at the ship. Transporters don't work threw shields so as long as the shields are up they arn't beeming anything. and they have problems hiting ST shuttle craft, a TIE is faster and more monuverable not to mention smaller

(...)

Galaxy class ship has
2 laser cannons
2 Proton topedo launchers
1 Ion cannons
1 Cuncushon millile launchers
(note a Laser Cannon is an anti fighter weapon and will do very little against a ship the size of a Correlian Corvette(about 1/10th the size of a commen SD)

(...)
sorry for the bad spelling
Don't be sorry for the bad spelling - be sorry for the wrong weapon caracteristics you gave the Galaxy class for it has:

12 Type X Phasers emitters
3 Proton torpedo launchers (1 front, 1 back, 1 in the saucer never used in the series)
275 Photonentorpedos (what about upgrades to quantum torps?)

And they don't use lasers, they use phasers...

Besides, I'd like to see a StarDestroyer which is attacked from 180 - jump in, fire at the two shield towers, cripple the engines by releasing antimatter, and everything goes kaboom even before the first wave of ties has been launched...

Don't be sorry for the bad spelling - be sorry for the wrong weapon caracteristics you gave the Galaxy class for it has:

12 Type X Phasers emitters
3 Proton torpedo launchers (1 front, 1 back, 1 in the saucer never used in the series)
275 Photonentorpedos (what about upgrades to quantum torps?)

And they don't use lasers, they use phasers...

Besides, I'd like to see a StarDestroyer which is attacked from 180 - jump in, fire at the two shield towers, cripple the engines by releasing antimatter, and everything goes kaboom even before the first wave of ties has been launched...

....i was arming the Galaxy class with SW weapons to better show its power comared to a SD...not how many weapons they really have.

thats why the EMpire brain washes its solders to do its bidding. all the Ties really need to do is fly and fire at the ship. Transporters don't work threw shields so as long as the shields are up they arn't beeming anything. and they have problems hiting ST shuttle craft, a TIE is faster and more monuverable not to mention smaller
TIEs don't have shields... And as a SF-captain I couldn't care less if only half the pilot is beamed out of his cockpit. And they might be fast - but not fast enough for autotracking phaser relays.

....i was arming the Galaxy class with SW weapons to better show its power comared to a SD...not how many weapons they really have.
Oh. Okay. But why would you wanna do that? If you wanna compare you gotta compare what's there. ;)

StarTrek vs. StarWars = NERDWARS!!! :D:D:D

um.....there both for kids you know

they are both destroyed for breaking the laws of physics ST had a world war in the 1990's (still waiting) SW had the force (still trying to learn how to use it)

whereas species had a hot alien looking for no strings attached sex you do the math

Besides, I'd like to see a StarDestroyer which is attacked from 180 - jump in, fire at the two shield towers, cripple the engines by releasing antimatter, and everything goes kaboom even before the first wave of ties has been launched...

this is why they keep thier shields up and have smaller escort craft most of the time not to mention armor or large amount of weapons mounted on the back of the ship

Honestly, which moron in a TIE fighter would attack a StarFleet vessel such as the Enterprise D or E or the Akira class, even in great numbers?

They'd be like "assume attack formation" and then the SF captain goes "fire phasers at will"; pew pew pew: all gone.

Not to mention the nice idea of beaming shit which goes boom aboard other vessels - or simply beaming the pilots out of their TIEs...

On the other hand...

http://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/borg.gifhttp://www.studip.uni-goettingen.de/pictures/smile/sithlord.gif

The beaming out of the pilots might encounter several difficulties.
The notorious unreliability of transporters under any form of interference (a decent thunderstorm or some (dense) metal in the vicinity of the target is enough to stop it). It might be possible to just add some EW pods to all the fighters and no more ports (or use these shielded Tie-fighters which are accepted as existing by Lucas). Then there is the point that porting is slow. Believe a galaxy class running all the transporters could only beam around one target per second if that target was following a fixed course.

Oh and there is a little problem as well. While that ST ship is picking of the Tie-fighters big brother, the ship that carries the fighters, has the time to expose a broadside of weaponry onto the ship picking of the fighters

The whole thing is that if you follow the techmanuals for either side then regardless what you propose a single stardestroyer will have at least the same effect on any ST ship or group of ships as that Borg cube had at the battle of Wolf (and that is probably understating it).

Besides, I'd like to see a StarDestroyer which is attacked from 180 - jump in, fire at the two shield towers, cripple the engines by releasing antimatter, and everything goes kaboom even before the first wave of ties has been launched...

Seeing that in SW they have superluminal detection methods (The rebel base on Hoth detected the star destroyers while those were still in hyperspace) I doubt that it'll be possible to sneak up on a star destroyer.
And IIRC those towers are not shield towers but sensor towers (bit like radar domes), can't confirm don't have the cross sections book here.

But this is getting completely of topic. The relative strengths of either side doesn't matter. What was asked is what did/do you enjoy more, The Star Trek franchise or the Star Wars franchise?

Star Trek: More sex

There is sex in Star Trek? :eek:

There is sex in Star Trek? :eek:

Yes, for example: Worf and Dax. *shudder*

I must say Star Trek on the basis that it came first, sparked my imagination as a child, and got me into Star Wars. Afterwards I got into Sci-Fi like Ender's Game and fantasy (and thus began my D&D days...*sigh* I miss those days, surely I do...)

(...)
But this is getting completely of topic. The relative strengths of either side doesn't matter. What was asked is what did/do you enjoy more, The Star Trek franchise or the Star Wars franchise?
Yeah, well, what'd you expect?

I already stated that I love'em both and refuse to pick one only. I have ST and SW franchise which is both cool.

Can't beat the classic SW toys, though. But there's more ST to watch, so...

As I've stated before - I love'em both, no matter what ;)

I must say Star Trek on the basis that it came first, sparked my imagination as a child, and got me into Star Wars. Afterwards I got into Sci-Fi like Ender's Game and fantasy (and thus began my D&D days...*sigh* I miss those days, surely I do...)
Just read that last year and I must say - great stuff! Grew up with TOS on TV and the first movie I ever saw at the cinema was ESB.

um.....there both for kids you know

they are both destroyed for breaking the laws of physics ST had a world war in the 1990's (still waiting) SW had the force (still trying to learn how to use it)

whereas species had a hot alien looking for no strings attached sex you do the math
Uhm... No.
And who cares about physics? At least ST tries to be close - and just look at how ST inspired computers and stuff. Ever saw those "discs" Spock used? Look at lot like 3.5ers or minidiscs to me ;)

And the 1990s saw the Eugenic Wars. WWIII happened between 2050-53. :p

Edit: Yay! 1600.

Why are people equivocating the Starfleet phaser bank to a single laser cannon? Hardly. The Enterprise is around 700-800 meters long, making it smaller than a Star Destroyer. However, its weapon complement is similar and perhaps even more powerful, considering that I'm fairly certain they see lasers as obsolete in Star Trek. A Galaxy-class or Sovereign-class starship would have no problem standing up to a Star Destroyer. And they don't have weapons all over a Star Destroyer hull; there's a significantly smaller number of guns on the stern of their vessel. Given superior mobility, enhanced targeting sensors, more powerful torpedoes (let's not forget that proton torpedoes are starfighter complement weapons... a photon torpedo next to them would be like an ICBM next to a SAM), more three-dimensionally thinking commanders, higher yield primary weapons (a single phaser, on a starship, at least, has very high yield), and more dynamic shielding technology, I'll take the Federation starship any day. This doesn't even factor in the Defiant.

Comparing just about anything in Star Wars to a Borg Cube doesn't work for the simple reason that the Borg can adapt to any technology thrown their way. Considering that all anyone in Star Wars does is rely on technology, I'm surprised they haven't been assimilated already.

I love both franchises, but my first love is Star Trek, and to that I'll hold. It's got the Enterprise, for crying out loud! Not to mention Data.

Considering that all anyone in Star Wars does is rely on technology, I'm surprised they haven't been assimilated already.

And this, boys and girls, is a classic example of someone missing the point entirely. The entire narrative drive of the original Star Wars movie and its whole storyline is shaped so as to create a point in the plot where TEH EVIL can only be defeated by not relying on technology. But hey, to be fair to Arrlia. maybe they confused Star Wars with Breakin' 2 - Electric Boogaloo, an easy mistake to make, and one to which we have all fallen prey at one time in our lives, no?

And this, boys and girls, is a classic example of someone missing the point entirely. The entire narrative drive of the original Star Wars movie and its whole storyline is shaped so as to create a point in the plot where TEH EVIL can only be defeated by not relying on technology. But hey, to be fair to Arrlia. maybe they confused Star Wars with Breakin' 2 - Electric Boogaloo, an easy mistake to make, and one to which we have all fallen prey at one time in our lives, no?


I direct your attention to the Episodes 1, 2, 3.

And I respectfully agree with your statement, whilst asking that you turn your attention back to the actual context of the statement you thought you were tearing up, when in fact you missed the point yourself. Luke Skywalker would still have failed if the Death Star was a Borg Sphere... proton torpedoes had been used on it a couple minutes beforehand, and it would have adapted to them by then. The only way to stop the Borg is through non-energy means, like swords. Now THAT would be a fight to see. The Borg would probably adapt with razors and sword-stuff of their own... :cool:

Luke Skywalker would still have failed if the Death Star was a Borg Sphere... proton torpedoes had been used on it a couple minutes beforehand, and it would have adapted to them by then. The only way to stop the Borg is through non-energy means, like swords. Now THAT would be a fight to see. The Borg would probably adapt with razors and sword-stuff of their own... :cool:

Regardless of the nature of an explosive charge, it is still able to harm things within the real world, unless we are going to wave goodbye to physics entirely. The point of SW is that we cannot trust technology when it overtakes our humanity (the fact that it peddles a line of bullshit mysticism as it delivers this message is here irrelevant).

Explain to me how a sword is to be classified as a 'non-energy means', would you? True or false: the damage inflicted by a sword is directly proportional to the kinetic energy which it possesses.

Am I also to assume that you don't consider a sword to be a piece of technology?

Ah, I should have clarified. I meant technologies that deal with energy-based attacks like the futuristic lasers and phasers and stuff of that nature. Picard was able to riddle the Borg with bullets in the holodeck and Worf was able to slice and dice a Borg with his knife. Physical damage, from a physical object striking them, is unable to be blocked by their force field.



True, I agree with you on the Star Wars message; Star Wars has all this technology, and who wins out? The farmboy from Tatooine who convinces his dad chuck the Emperor off a ledge.

Ah, I should have clarified. I meant technologies that deal with energy-based attacks like the futuristic lasers and phasers and stuff of that nature. Picard was able to riddle the Borg with bullets in the holodeck and Worf was able to slice and dice a Borg with his knife. Physical damage, from a physical object striking them, is unable to be blocked by their force field.

So basically what you're saying is that a bunch of Ewoks could take on the Borg?

Yub yub! :D :p

Well, that entire scene of them managing to drub "An entire legion of [the Emperor's] best troops" is kind of funny. But then again, the stormies were wearing white in a forest...

EDIT: Well, they could, conceivably, but they don't have the speed and sharp weapons that might be necessary for such an attack, unless they've gained skills I was previously unaware of.

ST tech is not realistic...they just use real terms, and attach technobabble explanations.

Better to just show what your stuff can do, like SW...

ST=better babes

SW=better tech (25,000 years of a galaxy-spanning civilization, travel from galactic center to edge in a few hours vs how many years for Voyager to go from one quadrant to another?)

Turbolasers=|=lasers :gundge:

Is there a "neither" option?

Star Wars: The Empire

Star wars was definatly the best, General Grievous rocked, Darth Vader rocked and who could forget R2-D2?

Star wars was definatly the best, General Grievous rocked, Darth Vader rocked and who could forget R2-D2?

The General Grievous part kind of ruins your credibility. But you did say that Star Wars was the best, so that's good.

There is sex in Star Trek? :eek:
Like Eddie Smurfy says ...
"Yeah, i'm f*ckin' the green bitch!"
*grunt grunt*

Orion slave girl, btw.

Also - Kirk and Leela got it on. Zoidberg and Truman ALMOST got it on. Mmmm.

Vacuous StarWars 1977= Ripoff of Japans 1974 anime boom inspiring Space Battleship Yamato. :cool:

StarTrek-TNG and ALL the new Trek blow chunks. :mp5:

Original Trek Triumphs over all. :p :D

YES even "Spocks Brain" is better entertainment then the Yap, yap, yap, techno R.D.Moore-ON (Ruin BattlestarGalactica) babble.:headbang:


Rich

So basically what you're saying is that a bunch of Ewoks could take on the Borg?


hey man rocks hurt when they hit you.:D

Since its really opinion, I liek Star Wars better. The sheer variety of fighter as well as capital ships is much better in Star Wars than in Star Trek. The storylines in both are interesting at times, and I like most of the TNG episodes but the origal 3 Star Wars movies had a ncie storyline and plotline which spawned the entire Star Wars world of books and side stories.

As for tech, everyone seems bent on comparing an Imperial Star Destroyer Mark II to the Galaxy-class Enterprise. How would the Galaxy fair against a squadron of X-wings? Or B-wings which were designed to combat capital ships?

In all honesty, both series are good, except for the new Star Wars movies which got weird as storylines go. I like TNG the best of all Star Trek, but as movies go, Star Wars get the nod.

if you want to find out facts power etc of ST ships... try the DITL (http://www.ditl.org) This has a lot of cannon information on ship stats and powere created etc... For Example The galaxy class ships phasers together produce a total power outage of 50,000 TeraWatts.. Thats a lot of power to throwing at your enemy especially when you can give a short burst or keep it going...


But anyways... i like ST I like SW.... should we really be having this argument. Both have their good points and both their bad... (Enterprise... WTF!!! and Jar Jat Binks... [no way he was written in originally.. that had to be for the kids])

Why are people equivocating the Starfleet phaser bank to a single laser cannon?


because based on info provided by tech books thats what ST weapons are worth compared to SW ones. as for the lasers, well SW lasers are not the same thing as ST lasers. not by a long shot


As for tech, everyone seems bent on comparing an Imperial Star Destroyer Mark II to the Galaxy-class Enterprise. How would the Galaxy fair against a squadron of X-wings? Or B-wings which were designed to combat capital ships?


i was using an Imp Mark I not a mark II

based on tech books a B-wing has more firepower then a Galaxy class and it would be much harder to hit

Socialist B.S., not commie B.S. ... get it right.
And per Shatner's music history .... well, i'm sure the ComChan presentation last night of Last Laugh 2005 gave him good props, him being Satan and all.
Yeah, sure, socialist commies whatever they are. Basically they are baby sat wimps throughout the rest of their life and can't do anything unless their swelling burecratic mass of omnipresent government gives them the say so.

Anyway, can't we all stop fighting and agree that Star Wars is just better? We are wasting good thread time here for crying out loud.

TIEs don't have shields... And as a SF-captain I couldn't care less if only half the pilot is beamed out of his cockpit. And they might be fast - but not fast enough for autotracking phaser relays.

I'm only going to say this. Who is in charge of targetting in most ST ship to ship fights? Red shirts! Stormtroopers without their fancy white armour. And its been proven that red shirts have about as much accuracy as a stormtrooper, which is to say none at all.

Why else would they miss other cap ships doing nice slow turns so often?

Anyway, can't we all stop fighting and agree that Star Wars is just better? We are wasting good thread time here for crying out loud.

Of course Star Wars is better given their ships would kick the crap out of Trek ships.

Star Trek is clearly superior.
I don't know where to start on this one, really. I mean, they've got more scientific accuracy, their ships can go faster, they don't have lame-ass characters like Jar Jar Binks, their adventures are more fun and more varied and occasionally they're downright philosophical instead of just having one storyline...

Of course Star Wars is better given their ships would kick the crap out of Trek ships.
I doubt that very much.
I think the Borg would make short work of Vader and his death star...

I'm only going to say this. Who is in charge of targetting in most ST ship to ship fights? Red shirts! Stormtroopers without their fancy white armour. And its been proven that red shirts have about as much accuracy as a stormtrooper, which is to say none at all.

Why else would they miss other cap ships doing nice slow turns so often?
The post you responded to was going on about simply beaming the tie fighter pilots out into space instead of fighting them. Since they don't have shields, this would be very easy, just lock onto a life form and beam them the hell out. Voila, dead pilot, ship that's a sitting duck.

Anyway, can't we all stop fighting and agree that Star Wars is just better? We are wasting good thread time here for crying out loud.
Because Star Trek >>>>> Star Wars.

The post you responded to was going on about simply beaming the tie fighter pilots out into space instead of fighting them. Since they don't have shields, this would be very easy, just lock onto a life form and beam them the hell out. Voila, dead pilot, ship that's a sitting duck.

heh, well thats already out, because Ties are close range they need a a ship to carry them. so the ST ship would have to fight that larger ship..this invalves raising shields. as we already know transporters can't be used with shields up so the fighter pilots are safe from the transporter


the Borg can only addapt to weapons if the ship has time to transmit tactical info. a Super laser ends that chance. and the DS1 could fire a bunch of Turbolasers at a fleet of Cubs, not to mention Ion cannons...they would be hell to the borg

Star Trek is clearly superior.
I don't know where to start on this one, really. I mean, they've got more scientific accuracy, their ships can go faster, they don't have lame-ass characters like Jar Jar Binks, their adventures are more fun and more varied and occasionally they're downright philosophical instead of just having one storyline...


ships go faster? where did you get that? more monuverable yes, faster no

ships go faster? where did you get that? more monuverable yes, faster no
Warp drive is faster than light speed.

Star Wars ships travel at light speed, most of the time Star Trek ships travel at many times that. (Warp 1 is light speed, Warp 2 is double light speed et c)

Warp drive is faster than light speed.

Star Wars ships travel at light speed, most of the time Star Trek ships travel at many times that. (Warp 1 is light speed, Warp 2 is double light speed et c)

again, wrong. SW ships go to Light speed before entering Hyperspeed. Hyperspeed can take a ship accross the Galaxy in about a day depending on the class of hyperdrive. warp speed would take as i remember from ST Voyager. over 70 years at warp 9.975

again, wrong. SW ships go to Light speed before entering Hyperspeed. Hyperspeed can take a ship accross the Galaxy in about a day depending on the class of hyperdrive. warp speed would take as i remember from ST Voyager. over 70 years at warp 9.975
Well, if you're comparing bad guy ships... the Borg's transwarp could probably beat the hell out of hyperspeed. They could probably also assimilate Vader and company rather quickly...

The post you responded to was going on about simply beaming the tie fighter pilots out into space instead of fighting them. Since they don't have shields, this would be very easy, just lock onto a life form and beam them the hell out. Voila, dead pilot, ship that's a sitting duck.

I should have cut out a bit more, but I was talking about the autotracking relays he seemed so proud about. The damn thing misses about as often as a stormtrooper. And these are capital ship sized targets their missing.

Star Trek is clearly superior.
I don't know where to start on this one, really. I mean, they've got more scientific accuracy, their ships can go faster, they don't have lame-ass characters like Jar Jar Binks, their adventures are more fun and more varied and occasionally they're downright philosophical instead of just having one storyline...
Scientific accuracy? with what, the lithium crystals and berillium spheres and the like? Scotty's breaking of physics in most episodes of TOS? Time Travel? or what about the near human races that can cross-breed with humans (even though we can't crossbreed with the closest species on our planets)?

Faster? see above about hyperspeed.

Jar Jar was lame in Episode 1, but how many crappy alien races that just add a ridge or a new color and become Nazis or Commies and can have sex with the captain?

Trek adventures fun? compaired to the space opera of Star Wars? you crazy?

Star Wars not philiosphical? again, are you crazy?

Scientific accuracy? with what, the lithium crystals and berillium spheres and the like? Scotty's breaking of physics in most episodes of TOS? Time Travel? or what about the near human races that can cross-breed with humans (even though we can't crossbreed with the closest species on our planets)?
1. I wasn't counting original series, I never really got into it as it was before my time. There is actual physics to back say, warp drive.
2. Time travel is conceivably possible, especially on a quantum level...
3. The non-human races are the same species still. See the episode of TNG where they talk about the seeding of all the planets by another earlier species.

Jar Jar was lame in Episode 1, but how many crappy alien races that just add a ridge or a new color and become Nazis or Commies and can have sex with the captain?
Captain Picard>>>>Kirk and Picard didn't get laid by too many alien women...
I'm not talking about TOS.

Trek adventures fun? compaired to the space opera of Star Wars? you crazy?
Yes, Star Trek adventures kick ass. Plus Star Trek has Data who is quite possibly the most kick-ass character in science fiction. There's also more character development, imo, though this could be a consequence of it being a series rather than movies...

Star Wars not philiosphical? again, are you crazy?
Not nearly as much as Star Trek. Star Wars to me was more or less like an action movie, yeah, it's fun to watch and whatever, but when you leave the theater, who cares?

Also, wtf at sails in space exactly?

Star Trek, no freakin contest, I don't know who started this idiotic comparison, but I just don't see how someone with the ability to think for themselves can come to the conclusion that star wars is superior. Really irks me.

are there any new trek shows planned for the future?

Star Trek, no freakin contest, I don't know who started this idiotic comparison, but I just don't see how someone with the ability to think for themselves can come to the conclusion that star wars is superior. Really irks me.
I know..

are there any new trek shows planned for the future?

No, other than fan-produced efforts available on the web. With the end of both SW and ST for the foreseeable future we all have much to be glad for.

No, other than fan-produced efforts available on the web. With the end of both SW and ST for the foreseeable future we all have much to be glad for.

well then it was good while it lasted...

Well, if you're comparing bad guy ships... the Borg's transwarp could probably beat the hell out of hyperspeed. They could probably also assimilate Vader and company rather quickly...

well, normal transwarp will take months to get accross the Galaxy. but with w TW hub. yes the borg can move faster

Vader would be hard. he could simply brake each and every one of the borg with the force. or just push them away. as with any other Jedi/Sith but if they had the number it would go to the borg. though thier are many things that would be good for fighting the borg, Wookies and Trandoshians are good and strong fighters as well as many droids. i would also love to see a Borg addapt to a Geonosian Sonic blaster

Well, if you're comparing bad guy ships... the Borg's transwarp could probably beat the hell out of hyperspeed. They could probably also assimilate Vader and company rather quickly...

I think the Transwarp is maybe on par with the Hyperdrive maybe. And forget about it. Darth Vader could not be assimilated by the borg he would lightsaber them until they adapted and then use the Force to like throw them around the room. Plus, he is already mostly machine. Also the emperor could just electrocute them all to death.

Star Trek, no freakin contest, I don't know who started this idiotic comparison, but I just don't see how someone with the ability to think for themselves can come to the conclusion that star wars is superior. Really irks me.

It's quite simple, really. If one has the ability to think for themselves they will realize that Star Wars is infinitely superior to Star Trek.

I would say Star Wars simply because the Imperial Fleet has more tenacity than any Federation ship in ST, and I would be putting my money on the SD when it faced the Enterprise...it only has one main beam cannon right(?).

Also you just have to think about it, some of the aliens and the languages they come up in Trek are just too stupid and close to the english or other Earth languages to be real SF. no, in the way of creating 'REAL' aliens, SW takes the cake. Thats something that ole George prides himself on.

And if you think jar jar is annoying, then I could begin a long list of trek ones as well.

Not only that but ST is more of a soap opera. Theres too much crap involved. When the captain gave an order to his crew on the enterprise, they stopped and thought about it before doing so and asked questions back. WTF!? The Fleet is a part of the military. A captain is teh supreme comander aboard a ship, he's God unless he says othewise, you dont questiona damned order, or even think about it; you do it! If you don't it can get you killed, along with your ship.

No, SW is much better, or at least, that is my opinion.

Just saw this thread and have to add comment.

Star Wars is infinitaly superior to Star Trek.

Lightsaber vs. phaser, no contest, saber would win

Force vs. Empath, come on now, the force can change the course of someone's thought if there weak minded and if it doesn't, hey, a saber would do just fine.

SSD (Super Star Destroyer for those who don't watch SW), vs. Galaxy Class, hmmm lemme think, not only is the SSD heavily armed but it also has hangers for some 400 or so Tie fighters.

Sith vs. Romulan, Gee there's a no brainer

Captain Kirk vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi, another no brainer

Aang-Ti vs. Klingon, Both cloak but the Aang-Ti can destroy an entire fleet while cloak and remain undetected in less time than it takes than a borg cube can eraticate 6 Galaxy Class ships.

and for the end comment.

Story vs. Story, Star Wars has a solid running story with the ressurection of Emperor Palpatine and his 2nd death to the hands of Luke Skywalker, Luke becoming an Uber Jedi/Shadow Jedi, the death of Chewbacca and Han's need to find peace due to the death, the death of Anikan Solo. Star Trek has a no brainer story, meet new alien race, fight, have sex with the new alien race, fight some more. kill the alien you had sex with and go on to define a peace treaty and go onto the next untouched alien planet and hope the romulans and klingon don't toast ya, oh wait, they did !

Star Wars is far superior to Star Trek in every aspect.

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

I like them both... but... I like Star Wars slightly better - even if the Prequel romance lines made me want to vomit.

Mainly, I like the epic storyline and its general style of storytelling better than Star Trek. Star Wars (prequels aside) usually has better characters than Trek, and it forces its personalities into dramatic conflicts with much better regularity. In the end, I like the Joseph-Campbellian style of character epic better than the episodic Trek format. And I like Star Wars' galactic backdrop; there's an epic war between an evil empire and democratic rebels, but there's still enough room in the galaxy for lots of aliens, other powers, and secret plots. And (again, prequels aside), Star Wars has much better dialog. Darth Vader is very quotable.

I prefer the Star Wars approach to technology better; Star Trek makes up unrealistic technology then pretends its realistic via gobs of time-wasting technobabble, Star Wars just admits its technology is unrealistic from the get go.

In addition, there's a few more things about Trek that annoy me - the technobabble can get excessive, the communist Federation's preachiness, and the fact that Trek keeps reusing plots. I tried watching the first season of Enterprise, but quit after it failed to surprise me.

The main thing annoying me about Star Wars is some of the crap in the prequels (which I enjoyed despite their flaws). Star Trek's flaws just jump out at me more.

However, I still like Star Trek (I'm in a Trek RP now). I like the exploration element, and how they made a distinct aesthetics for all of the alien races. The Original Series is still my favorite, and was far ahead of its time. And, DS9's Dominion War space violence was entertaining (the Dominion just kicks ass too).

Universe vs. Universe

As for which one would win - this is answering the wrong question. Any writer can make a powerful universe, and having greater technology isn't going to make me like a show better. But, as its fun to argue about fictional universes, I'll join in anyway.

However, I think the Galactic Empire would own any of the "normal" Star Trek nations (Borg probably included). The Q-Continuum could, of course, defeat the Galactic Empire.

It would have taken Voyager years to cross the galaxy, judging from the prequel movies it takes a mere Star Wars fighter days or possibly hours. They have tens of thousands of capital ships that dwarf Star Trek vessels, each of which can level whole planets singularly. As far as I can tell, Star Trek does not have planetary shields strong enough to repel such bombardment.

This means an Imperial strike force could simply cruise through Star Trek's defensive lines at vast speeds without fear of interception, then systematically reduce the major worlds of a Federation-style state to rubble before a response arrived. The Federation could not do a similar thing to the Empire; their ships would be too slow.

I'm to lazy to edit the quote so red=me

1. I wasn't counting original series, I never really got into it as it was before my time. There is actual physics to back say, warp drive.
2. Time travel is conceivably possible, especially on a quantum level...
3. The non-human races are the same species still. See the episode of TNG where they talk about the seeding of all the planets by another earlier species.

2. Time-travel creates to manyparadoxes to be considered possible, the only time-travel that's possible is to the future, which we are making right now.
3. And evolution would not have messed that up the same way it would have done on earth with us and our closest species?

Captain Picard>>>>Kirk and Picard didn't get laid by too many alien women...
I'm not talking about TOS.


Yes, Star Trek adventures kick ass. Plus Star Trek has Data who is quite possibly the most kick-ass character in science fiction. There's also more character development, imo, though this could be a consequence of it being a series rather than movies...

Data? a pale useless android...
Not nearly as much as Star Trek. Star Wars to me was more or less like an action movie, yeah, it's fun to watch and whatever, but when you leave the theater, who cares?

It's a friggin epic saga of galactic proportions *force choke*

Also, wtf at sails in space exactly?

Well...since NASA are looking into sails to drive spaceships with solarwinds, doesn't this contradict your precious Star Trek "realism"? oops...

Anyway the force surrounds all living (and inanimate) things, vader could just kill every damn ST-creature/entity/whatever with it, hahahahaha we win.

oh...and ground-battle? your precious remote-controls and red shirts won't save you from the wrath of the imperial artillery or it's walkers...

ta-ta!

ST tech is not realistic...they just use real terms, and attach technobabble explanations.

Better to just show what your stuff can do, like SW...

ST=better babes

SW=better tech (25,000 years of a galaxy-spanning civilization, travel from galactic center to edge in a few hours vs how many years for Voyager to go from one quadrant to another?)

Turbolasers=|=lasers :gundge:

I disagree about the babes, there are more of them, true, but come on! Leia...*drool*...Padmé...*drool*

I disagree about the babes, there are more of them, true, but come on! Leia...*drool*...Padmé...*drool*

Plus all those hot Twi'Lek Dancers.

Star Wars, all the time. I watch both, but Star Wars' general storyline is better than anything Trek has ever done, period. Also, we have Lord Vader, arguably one of the greatest SF characters of all time. No foolin! Star Wars also has the lightsaber, the coolest SF weapon of all time. And, as my compadre Fidel Gutierrez noted earlier:
I mean, it's obivous, Star Destroyer vs Galaxy Class?
Death Star vs Borg Cube? COME ON!
Thats no moon, for gods sakes! :P
Let's not forget production quality either....Star Wars was better than Trek even back when "A New Hope" was in theaters originally...

Come'on you had to love the entire DS9 series: The Dominon WAR!

Huge starship battles
Cardassians, Romulans, Kilingons and the Bajorans....
The Entire Galaxies Future pivoted on its outcome.... Prophets & Pah-Wraiths

It was EXCELLENT!

I really like Ezri Dax.....

Most Memorable Character...... Worf..... He has his hands in so many things,
TNG, DS9, Not to mention incredible Movie action!

And ST Nemisis? It was so cool. When the Enterprise plays Chicken with the Scimitar. Breathtaking! The bridged is breached, and Data get blown up!
DOWN SIDE: The LCARS graphics where crap! They where using real responding computers but it didn't look good.

STARTREK DS9 for SURE!

DS9 was, by far, the best of the Star Trek series.

And I already posted a pic of Ezri in this thread. *drool*

Come'on you had to love the entire DS9 series: The Dominon WAR!

Huge starship battles
Cardassians, Romulans, Kilingons and the Bajorans....
The Entire Galaxies Future pivoted on its outcome.... Prophets & Pah-Wraiths

It was EXCELLENT!

I really like Ezri Dax.....

Most Memorable Character...... Worf..... He has his hands in so many things,
TNG, DS9, Not to mention incredible Movie action!

And ST Nemisis? It was so cool. When the Enterprise plays Chicken with the Scimitar. Breathtaking! The bridged is breached, and Data get blown up!
DOWN SIDE: The LCARS graphics where crap! They where using real responding computers but it didn't look good.

STARTREK DS9 for SURE!


i havn't seen much of DS9, i have wanted to for a long time. i have seen most of TOS and Voyager and all of TNG. but only a little of DS9.

i hated ST Nemisis.

all i can currently say about The Dominon war is from what i have read about it on the internet. as far as i can tell it shows just how poor the commen ST space comabt is when fighting in large numbers. though i still want to see it

I love how people are saying oh the empire would own the federation... yeah true.. but the federation arent a war like race... they are scientifc researchers... really the only cannon warship that was ever built was the prometheus and even that was a transwarp prototype ship..

The Romulans and the Klingons on the other hand.. very war like i mean, comeon.. the scimitar... that might just be able (well, if you had 3 or 4) be able to own 1 ISD (before they get deccimated by the hundreds of other ISD's)

Comparibly, if all the major races of ST aligned... and they had a fleet comparible to fleets the size of the empires they would own the empire.. and besides im sure the rebels wouldnt mind a little hand :P


However, you shouyld not compare ST and SW technologiwes because SW happened A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY where they are onbviously far superior to us ;)

However, you shouyld not compare ST and SW technologiwes because SW happened A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY where they are onbviously far superior to us ;)

Yeah, and so their civilization must have collapsed spectacularly by now. They should have had a Star Trek episode where they find a dead, bombed-out planet (Coruscant) and a statue that says, "I am Palpatine, king of kings; look on my works, ye mighty, and despair." :p

DS9 was, by far, the best of the Star Trek series.

*raises eyebrow*

two things:
1. ds9 was teh suckz0rs and voyager rules.
2. Ezri dax wasn't the hot one... she was annoying! :mad:

http://www.roswell.dsl.pipex.com/images/seven/seven7.jpg
(random 7 of 9 shot thrown in for fun)

What if they all evoved into the organians??? (sorry... thts the ST nerd in me coming out)

I doubt that very much.
I think the Borg would make short work of Vader and his death star...

You think a battlestation the size of "a small moon" couldn't deal with Borg ships? If nothing else, the TIE fighters would get past the Borg's defenses.

Ties couldnt do shit and ST weapons are designed for locking onto big ships and small ships... they could easily track and destroy a tie... However... with the amount of Ties carried by the deathstar at least some could get through... BUT since lasers are an energy weapon and i dont think you can chnage the 'modulation' then theyd become pretty useles very quickly... They wouldnt have time to adapt to the Super laser though...


so borg cubes vs DS1, Borgcubes win... Borg Cubes vs DS2, DS2 wins.

Ties couldnt do shit and ST weapons are designed for locking onto big ships and small ships... they could easily track and destroy a tie... However... with the amount of Ties carried by the deathstar at least some could get through... BUT since lasers are an energy weapon and i dont think you can chnage the 'modulation' then theyd become pretty useles very quickly... They wouldnt have time to adapt to the Super laser though...


so borg cubes vs DS1, Borgcubes win... Borg Cubes vs DS2, DS2 wins.
Borg Adapt, so Borg will still win over the DS2.


however, I got an image of the borg assimulating Ewoks and The Gungains... and now I have little cyber teddy bears as well as Robotic Rastafarians running through my brain... :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

however, I got an image of the borg assimulating Ewoks and The Gungains... and now I have little cyber teddy bears as well as Robotic Rastafarians running through my brain... :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

lmao!! that's actually quite frightening! :p

i agree tho. borg would pwn anything in the SW universe and eventually eat their way through the empire like a virus

Ties couldnt do shit and ST weapons are designed for locking onto big ships and small ships... they could easily track and destroy a tie... However... with the amount of Ties carried by the deathstar at least some could get through... BUT since lasers are an energy weapon and i dont think you can chnage the 'modulation' then theyd become pretty useles very quickly... They wouldnt have time to adapt to the Super laser though...

so borg cubes vs DS1, Borgcubes win... Borg Cubes vs DS2, DS2 wins.

Don't think a borg cube being about 2 kilometers cubed can take the amount of energy needed to blow up a planet and adapt to it, just to much energy.
Besides what they call turbolaser or superlaser is not a real laser seeing that these guns have recoil, are slower then light and radiate light when fired in space (a real laser would do none of these) seems more like they are firing some kind of plasma and ST shields have shown a remarkable weakness to that (to the point that they use a gas explosion in Insurrection to destroy a ship which shields can't be penetrated by the Enterprise phasers).

Just to give you an impression of how much more powerful the SW ships are compared to ST ships the following:
The ambassador class ships (the TNG Enterprise is one of these) is the most powerful ship type the federation has. According to Riker in one of the episodes the entire ship produces less then one terawatt of power, that is less then 1 terajoule/second or less then 1E12 J/sec.
Then we have Slave-1 (from SW episode 2), it's guns are rated at 2 kiloton. That means that they do the equivalent damage of 2 million kilos of TNT.
TNT detonates with an energy 4.2E6 J/kg. This means that a single shot of these guns has 8.4E12 joules worth of energy. Which means that to fire this weapon once you need to turn the entire Enterprise off for more then 8 seconds (and probably longer seeing that it produces less then 1 terawatt power) to fire this weapon once, the Slave-1 fired these guns several times a second.
So we have the Slave-1 that is twenty times smaller then the Enterprise and just for it's weapons it is using at least 16 times more energy then the Enterprise can produce for the whole Enterprise. And that Slave-1 is a bountyhunter fighter not a military fighter (fighter is the correct classification seeing it's size) not even a capital ship (as the Enterprise is).

Don't think a borg cube being about 2 kilometers cubed can take the amount of energy needed to blow up a planet and adapt to it, just to much energy.
Besides what they call turbolaser or superlaser is not a real laser seeing that these guns have recoil, are slower then light and radiate light when fired in space (a real laser would do none of these) seems more like they are firing some kind of plasma and ST shields have shown a remarkable weakness to that (to the point that they use a gas explosion in Insurrection to destroy a ship which shields can't be penetrated by the Enterprise phasers).

Just to give you an impression of how much more powerful the SW ships are compared to ST ships the following:
The ambassador class ships (the TNG Enterprise is one of these) is the most powerful ship type the federation has. According to Riker in one of the episodes the entire ship produces less then one terawatt of power, that is less then 1 terajoule/second or less then 1E12 J/sec.
Then we have Slave-1 (from SW episode 2), it's guns are rated at 2 kiloton. That means that they do the equivalent damage of 2 million kilos of TNT.
TNT detonates with an energy 4.2E6 J/kg. This means that a single shot of these guns has 8.4E12 joules worth of energy. Which means that to fire this weapon once you need to turn the entire Enterprise off for more then 8 seconds (and probably longer seeing that it produces less then 1 terawatt power) to fire this weapon once, the Slave-1 fired these guns several times a second.
So we have the Slave-1 that is twenty times smaller then the Enterprise and just for it's weapons it is using at least 16 times more energy then the Enterprise can produce for the whole Enterprise. And that Slave-1 is a bountyhunter fighter not a military fighter (fighter is the correct classification seeing it's size) not even a capital ship (as the Enterprise is).

i said this all along. and with that 100 fully loaded Imperial Star Destroyers could take over the Federashon, Cardassians, Romulins, Kilngons...and much more

Borg Adapt, so Borg will still win over the DS2.

You're kidding, right? The Borg couldn't even assimilate Data!

You're kidding, right? The Borg couldn't even assimilate Data!
The Borg assimilate biological beings by incorporating technology in them. Data is not biological, so they would have to give him organs and such (which they did to some degree).

Whallop: the Ent-D is a Galaxy class, not Ambassador. The Ent-D is not the strongest vessel in the fleet anymore (until the end of TNG it was, however).

[Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?[/QUOTE]

STAR WAR RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAR TREK SUCKS!!!!!!!!
1)for one the Jedi can wipe out all the Federations troops and crew members without trouble
2)star wars weaponry is much more better
phasers cast one continuous beam of energy
3)blasters and other star wars weaponry have semi-automatic and automatic functions as well as missle lauchers
4)star wars has body armor designed to protect from energy weapons
5)star trek doesn't have fighters just starships
6)star wars can beat and eliminate the Borg

My bad, mixed it up with the Enterprise C.

the Ent-D is a Galaxy class, not Ambassador. The Ent-D is not the strongest vessel in the fleet anymore (until the end of TNG it was, however).

true, but the fact that SW is vastly suppirior still remains

I don't even think you should be compairing them... after all Star Wars happened "A long time ago, in a galexy far, far away." and Star Trek is set in post 3000 A.D. in this Galexy.

This brings about the question, when the enterprise reaches the galexy far, far away, can they still use the phrase "To boldly go where no man has gone before"?:(

I don't even think you should be compairing them... after all Star Wars happened "A long time ago, in a galexy far, far away." and Star Trek is set in post 3000 A.D. in this Galexy.

This brings about the question, when the enterprise reaches the galexy far, far away, can they still use the phrase "To boldly go where no man has gone before"?:(

the idea is that the Q sent the 2700ish AD Galaxy back in time to meet the Old but far more powerful people of SW :p

[Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

STAR WAR RULEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAR TREK SUCKS!!!!!!!!
1)for one the Jedi can wipe out all the Federations troops and crew members without trouble
2)star wars weaponry is much more better
phasers cast one continuous beam of energy
3)blasters and other star wars weaponry have semi-automatic and automatic functions as well as missle lauchers
4)star wars has body armor designed to protect from energy weapons
5)star trek doesn't have fighters just starships
6)star wars can beat and eliminate the Borg[/QUOTE]

Personally I enjoy Star Wars more, Dispite technoballe or flaws in reality ST and SW are mainly designed to entertain, and I get more entertainment from SW. Lightsabers are fun, the force is fun, and scifi war is fun. ST tries to avoid Scifi war through diplomacy which I find lacking for entertainment. But to settle the debate of who is stronger SW or ST.

Picard : Hail that strange new ship, ALien ship identify yourself I am Capt. Picard of the uss enterprise...

*A strange black helmet guy appears on screen*

Picard : choke choke...

Riker: Dr. Crusher to the bride medical emergency,

Dr. Crusher Beam the captain to sickbay--- *picard dies*

ST is over without picard

hell, when Q sent picard to meet the borg.. they got dicked... had he sent them to meet the deathstar... oh shit!!

i think the final decider of who wins the arguement will be a massive battle between teh ewoks and the tribbles.

Thats It!!! Thats How U Beat The Empire!!! Tribbles!!!

Star Trek wins without a doubt, and for many reasons. They include the things that it lacks:

1. Ewoks. Seriously.
2. Jar-Jar Binks.
3. "Hydrospanners". And you thought Star Trek technobabble was bad...
4. Ships that make the "Kessel Run" in less than twelve "parsecs." As any third grader will tell you, a parsec measures distance, not time.
5. Laser weapons that glow in the vacuum of space. At least in Star Trek they give a passing nod to the lawas of physics when they bothered to call them "phasers" to make up for their impossible properties.
6. Ships powered by a solar/magnetic sail that somehow manage to travel between solar systems (and halfway across the galaxy, in fact) in less than ten years.
7. Hyperdrives whose speeds max out at "0.5 past light speed". This figure is pathetically slow; it would take thousands of years to travel from the galactic core to its edge.


In general, Star Wars shows such obvious disrespect for the entire discipline of physics that I cannot classify it as sci-fi; rather, it is fantasy in space. Given that, the two are not really comparable. I like them both, but I will always prefer Star Trek.

As for which is strongest, I have only this to say...

The Borg have the Force.


It's true. In the episode in which they are first introduced, the Borg vessel is seen repairing itself after taking a punishment from the Enterprise's weapon systems. The crew notes, with astonishment, that the Borg are re-knitting the structure of their vessel using the collective energy of their unified consciousness. If that doesn't sound like the Force, I don't know what does.


And, as for the Death Star, all you have to do is fly to the other side of it. It's really not that hard. The primary weapon might be useful against the floating space barges that are Rebellion capital ships, but against anything possessing a warp drive, or even a functioning impulse drive, it would be utterly useless. That leaves you with destroying planets... not an efficient way to proceed. And need I even comment on the fact that the most advanced Imperial weapons are still just lasers? I recall a Star Trek episode in which one clue that the crew of the Enterprise had been tricked into fighting in an alien war was that their opponents were using laser weaponry - something so primitive that an entire fleet, when so armed, could not stand up to a single federation starship.

Star Trek is actually set several hundred years ahead of Star Wars. Why it should surprise people that Star Trek would win in a battle is beyond me. It is no judgement on the merit of either series to say that the more technologically advanced would win.

6. Ships powered by a solar/magnetic sail that somehow manage to travel between solar systems (and halfway across the galaxy, in fact) in less than ten years.
Yeah, what the fuck is up with that?! If you know anything about the density of particles and solar winds in the galaxy you know that thing isn't going anywhere.

Thats It!!! Thats How U Beat The Empire!!! Tribbles!!!

there should be a tribble movie.


hell they shat out 2 ewok movies they can make a tribble one.

btw just found this:


HAYDEN Christensen does not suffer hecklers gladly. The actor, currently shooting "Awake" with Jessica Alba, was leaving his trailer to do a scene inside Bellevue Hospital the other day when a fan approached. But instead of asking Christensen for an autograph, the fan yelled, "You ruined the 'Star Wars' movies!" Our set-side source says the annoyed Anakin Skywalker "chased the guy down the street and scared him away." A spokeswoman for the Weinstein Co., which is producing "Awake," declined comment.

4. Ships that make the "Kessel Run" in less than twelve "parsecs." As any third grader will tell you, a parsec measures distance, not time.

There was an explanation behind this at some point of time on NS general. Given that the Kessel region was supposedly filled with black holes (or just one large one), the Kessel Run became measured in distance because the less distance you took, the closer you were to the black hole as you passed it by.


5. Laser weapons that glow in the vacuum of space. At least in Star Trek they give a passing nod to the lawas of physics when they bothered to call them "phasers" to make up for their impossible properties.

I think they called them turbolasers. General consensus among most SW fans is that it is actually some form of plasma based weaponry. Possibly a plasma bolt with a laser used initially to clear micro-debris in the trajectory path of the bolt, thus increasing possible range without the issue of diffusion due to debris interference.

1. Ewoks. Seriously.

Neelix is worse than any Ewok.

2. Jar-Jar Binks.

Borg Kids. Ezri 'This reminds me of another thing Jadzia said in an earlier episode' Dax.

4. Ships that make the "Kessel Run" in less than twelve "parsecs." As any third grader will tell you, a parsec measures distance, not time.

You mean as opposed to Trek, where you measure power in joules instead of watts and energy in watts instead of joules? Where you can cool something below Absolute Zero? Where you can dig up alloys?

5. Laser weapons that glow in the vacuum of space. At least in Star Trek they give a passing nod to the lawas of physics when they bothered to call them "phasers" to make up for their impossible properties.

Turbolasers aren't lasers. Don't you notice how the bolts from them don't travel at the speed of light? Should I point out that a phaser rifle doesn't have a rifled barrel, and therefore isn't a rifle?

Should I point out that in Trek it's possible to use sonic weapons in space?

7. Hyperdrives whose speeds max out at "0.5 past light speed". This figure is pathetically slow; it would take thousands of years to travel from the galactic core to its edge.

Hyperdrive doesn't max out at .5 C, it maxes out at millions of times C. You're chosing dialog over visuals, which is silly. Han Solo also said it was impossible to blow up a planet: should we therefore assume the Death Star did not blow up Alderaan?

I recall a Star Trek episode in which one clue that the crew of the Enterprise had been tricked into fighting in an alien war was that their opponents were using laser weaponry - something so primitive that an entire fleet, when so armed, could not stand up to a single federation starship.

'No limits' fallacy. The ship in question was tiny and technologically inferior to the Enterprise in every way. This does not mean any laser, no matter how powerful, can be repelled by a Trek sheild. And a turbolaser isn't a laser.

It is no judgement on the merit of either series to say that the more technologically advanced would win.

Yes, the Empire would indeed win. Treknology is so poorly designed that capital ships regularly explode due to minor equipment malfunctions, computer errors or slight external damage. The Enterprise and Voyager have both in their time been repeatedly commandeered and threatened with destruction by their own recreation facilities [the holodeck], even!

There was an explanation behind this at some point of time on NS general. Given that the Kessel region was supposedly filled with black holes (or just one large one), the Kessel Run became measured in distance because the less distance you took, the closer you were to the black hole as you passed it by.
Further, there is the issue of gravitational dilation to take into account
(as in, our own tech experiences dilation between orbital and ground-based timing systems, must be synched with GPS, et cetera)

I don't even think you should be compairing them... after all Star Wars happened "A long time ago, in a galexy far, far away." and Star Trek is set in post 3000 A.D. in this Galexy.

This brings about the question, when the enterprise reaches the galexy far, far away, can they still use the phrase "To boldly go where no man has gone before"?:(
How can we trust what you say, that you have the merits to argue this?
Your nation name seems too ... innocuous. Maybe even legit. :eek:
Not weird enough to make someone think you have an arsenal of sci-fi geek lore for which you should be soundly reckoned.
;)

You're kidding, right? The Borg couldn't even assimilate Data!that's because Data was using programming baised off of Microsoft Windows. :D

that's because Data was using programming baised off of Microsoft Windows. :D
Where it hurts, where it hurts ....

there should be a tribble movie.
I wanna see them make a movie about the Great Tribble Massacre as described by Worf in "Trials and Tribbulations"

Star Trek is easily the best, as Captain Jean-Luc Picard is the best captain ever.

Although 'Enterprise' the new series is crap!!

DS9 rules!

1. Ewoks. Seriously.

That is why you can be happy that they'd be most likely wiped out after the destruction of the second deathstar.
It can't be good for anything living on Endor to have a power generator as needed by the deathstar blowing up like that, let alone the rain of dinosaur killer sized wreckage raining down on the surface of Endor.

2. Jar-Jar Binks.

Were it just for this ST would win 200%.


3. "Hydrospanners". And you thought Star Trek technobabble was bad...

Well there is a reason that ST gave us the words technobabble and treknobabble.
This in combination with the increasing mangling of how research & engineering works, abuse of technical words, abuse of theories, etc is what made me stop watching ST regularly around the end of the second season of TNG

4. Ships that make the "Kessel Run" in less than twelve "parsecs." As any third grader will tell you, a parsec measures distance, not time.

Did you see the faces of Obi and Luke when he said that?
Seems Han was trying to brag and they didn't buy it.

5. Laser weapons that glow in the vacuum of space. At least in Star Trek they give a passing nod to the lawas of physics when they bothered to call them "phasers" to make up for their impossible properties.

Maybe they operate like this because they are not lasers. I already gave a few reasons why they can't be.
For giggles I looked up the star trek definition of what a ST phaser is.
By G. Roddenberry:
A (usu. hand-held) weapon incorporating a laser beam whose "phase" can supposedly be altered to create different effects (such as stunning, annihilation, etc.) on the target.
To bad that a laser beam does not work like the phaser we see operating in ST (there is no way you can use a laser beam, how ever you modify it, to get organic material to vanish). Which requires you to create a whole set of never before observed physics as an explanation on how the thing actually works, where SW just has to say that a turbolaser is for example named after the primary method to exite gas to plasma or named for/from old times when they did use lasers.

6. Ships powered by a solar/magnetic sail that somehow manage to travel between solar systems (and halfway across the galaxy, in fact) in less than ten years.

If you've seen the movie that sail is not a solar/magnetic sail. It would at most give a 1/10G of acceleration (an seeing it's size compared to the ship a much lower figure is very likely) while the ship under it's own power manages to leave orbit of the planet in seconds after taking of which requires a lot more acceleration.

7. Hyperdrives whose speeds max out at "0.5 past light speed". This figure is pathetically slow; it would take thousands of years to travel from the galactic core to its edge.

And seeing that Han, Luke and Obi don't die of old age while flying to Alderaan your interpretation of going only 1.5 times the speed of light is wrong.
Maybe the following helps:
On the behind the magic CD they also list a table of travel times.
From Coruscant to Tatooine takes over 22 days. But if you go from Coruscant to Dantooine then from there to Tatooine it takes less then 2 days.
So it seems that something in hyperspace slows down ships.
Could it have been that Han was claiming that his ship could do these trips is 1/2 the normal time?

In general, Star Wars shows such obvious disrespect for the entire discipline of physics that I cannot classify it as sci-fi; rather, it is fantasy in space. Given that, the two are not really comparable. I like them both, but I will always prefer Star Trek.
I disagree on this one, if there is a setting that disrespects physics it Star Trek.
Just my argument at your point 5 should be enough to counter this but there is more incase you still don't agree
They can't even keep their SI units correct. Most common is the interchange of joules for watts and watts for joules.
Mangle just about every theory you come across. For example evolution on several occasions, each and every time it should have been classed as transformation not evolution.
Or what about that time when, I believe it was, Voyager escapes through a crack in the event horizon which is a mathematical definition not something physical.
Or what about praxis exploding and having enough force to propel debris out at supra luminal speeds wihthout shredding the Klingon home planet but the shockwave having enough force (and density) that a ship light years away turns into the shockwave to minimize it's exposure.
Or what about a universe that is so different from our own that what we call space in our universe is a fluid but the changes in constants needed for that not affecting Voyager/Borg nor the ships from that universe being adversely affected by entering the ST universe.

In short ST is not more faithful to physics as SW. They are both playing fast and loose with it (I can set up a similiar list for SW).

I think they called them turbolasers. General consensus among most SW fans is that it is actually some form of plasma based weaponry. Possibly a plasma bolt with a laser used initially to clear micro-debris in the trajectory path of the bolt, thus increasing possible range without the issue of diffusion due to debris interference.
1. "turbolasers". shit and highly unimaginative name

2. at least in ST you get a sense or even vague explaination as to how phasers work. SW you get bugger all and just have to assume "they work cos they do. look thats them shooting stuff on the screen there"

3. i'd rather have BS technobabble explainations than none at all


for me, the tech in SW is boring, predictable and just uninspired.
and its only "better" (ie it could beat ST tech in a fight) because someone, somewhere along the line, decided to put some extra zeros in the power equations.
if you ignore the fact that "blasters pwn phasers cos someone says they have more nrG!11!", i think it would be a tough battle. the empire are much larger (obviously - they own the galaxy), so its not fair to pit them against the federation - only fair to pit them against the whole ST galaxy too. dispite that i do believe starfleet alone could give the empire a run for their money with more adaptable, accurate technologies and superior strategy... but they would be overwhelmed with numbers.
but if it were one galaxy vs the other... the borg would be in it and pwn. simple. apart from that you'd end up with a more comparible number of ships, so a more even fight.


but you also got to remember, the empire eventually fell. the federation is alive and well waay into the 29th century, at least.

Yes, the Empire would indeed win. Treknology is so poorly designed that capital ships regularly explode due to minor equipment malfunctions, computer errors or slight external damage. The Enterprise and Voyager have both in their time been repeatedly commandeered and threatened with destruction by their own recreation facilities [the holodeck], even!
hmm i wonder why this could be... oh yes, there's about a thousand times the volume of star trek as there is star wars.... so its small wonder there are things to pick at with ST.
SW: 6 movies totalling maybe 15 hours max at a guess.
thats the equivalent to ONE series of ST.
of which there are 7 of voyager alone, and 9 of TNG (i think).... so its small wonder shit happens when you see more of it.

i'm sure if you watched the empire for that length of time/that much detail you'd see all sorts of crap like darth getting his coffee too hot...





but stepping away from the ubernerdiness, i prefer ST by miles because it is so much more than SW (in terms of the show and the entertainment). the latter is badly acted cowboys in space with a linear and quite simplistic plot... that could be any one ST episode ;)
ST is better for me in every way - they're both fiction and i enjoy ST far, far more - and frankly i don't care what a bunch of SW internet fanboys say otherwise

Are we perhaps losing sight of the meaning of Science Fiction here?

Are we perhaps losing sight of the meaning of Science Fiction here?
quite.
ST is better for me in every way - they're both fiction and i enjoy ST far, far more [as entertainment]

Haha I started this thread as a joke. But whatever as long as people enjoy it. It is nice to see, no matter how many people start to use it, the internet is still just as dorky as it always was.

As for my two cents the lightsaber is awesome(I'm sure people have said this before I dind't read the whole thread) and I read a theory on how it could be theoretically possible somewhere. Which I will now sum up because it is kind of interesting.

If we could ever design a power source small enough to fit into the handle you could create a circuit of super heated plasma magnetically held in place. Since it would need to be a full circuit it would actually be a very skinny figure 8 shape that only appears to be a single "blade". You can try to look it up if you want for a much better explanation. So now I'll just wait for cold fusion to be invented and miniturized so I can slice up some shit, although I think it would still pass through other sabers and bullets and such. So, it wouldn't be quite as cool.

@Pure metal:
I like your reasoning why you find Star Trek better.

Just one thing, thanks to this topic I've been digging around a bit (I think I got a good chance at winning the waste of time trophy for that) and it seems there is a lot more material that is classed as belonging to the Star wars universe. The big difference being that most of it is novels and books like the incredible cross sections ones detailing the ships.
What I mean to say is that it is easier to pick on ST then on SW because the ST series are well known and the SW books aren't but the people who have the books do it.

How can we trust what you say, that you have the merits to argue this?
Your nation name seems too ... innocuous. Maybe even legit. :eek:
Not weird enough to make someone think you have an arsenal of sci-fi geek lore for which you should be soundly reckoned.
;)

The reason that warp 9.999E99 has a limited speed and warp 10 is considered to be infinite is that at warp 9.999E99 you are still only warping space, but at warp 10 you actualy start to fold space placing you at all locations at once.

is that better?

If I had to guess which would win, SW or ST, I would say ST. The fight would be over before it started, The Q don't like anyone who challenges their athority, and they have a nasty habit of "smiting" anyone who does.;)

2. at least in ST you get a sense or even vague explaination as to how phasers work. SW you get bugger all and just have to assume "they work cos they do. look thats them shooting stuff on the screen there

Much like the Inertial Dampers on Trek ships, and all other non-obnoxious Treknology. Those huge descriptions are just there to waste airtime and pad the script, they add nothing to the show.

so its not fair to pit them against the federation - only fair to pit them against the whole ST galaxy too.

Why? Since when has the ST universe ever managed to unite against anything?

ST galaxy too. dispite that i do believe starfleet alone could give the empire a run for their money with more adaptable, accurate technologies and superior strategy

Strategy like trying to defend an outpost with just rifles and pistols? Like Nelsonian fleet tactics where boarding actions are still a valid tactic in capship-vs-capship engagements? With Earth so poorly defended the Breen could have laid waste to it if ST firepower figures were anything like the silly estimates some newsgroup posters try to give them?

but if it were one galaxy vs the other... the borg would be in it and pwn.

No, they wouldn't. The Borg are helpless against anything that doesn't use phase-coherent technology [which is why 'transphasic torpedoes' worked], have only ever been seen to be able to beam through Trek shields [which oscillate, which is probably why Trek ships take damage even when they're up], helpless against anything they can't assimilate [and the huge technical gulf would mean they couldn't assimilate Imperial technology; assimilation isn't magic], unable to adapt to physical impacts [Tommy guns, Worf's various Pointy Things] and are slow and stupid. A single program running on a Federation starship [the Doctor] was found to have greater processing power than the entire Borg collective, remember?

but you also got to remember, the empire eventually fell. the federation is alive and well waay into the 29th century, at least.

That's like saying that the modern Japanese Self Defence Force would easily beat the entire cold war era Soviet military because the Soviet Union no longer exists. It's an answer, but it just avoids the real issue.

If I had to guess which would win, SW or ST, I would say ST. The fight would be over before it started, The Q don't like anyone who challenges their athority, and they have a nasty habit of "smiting" anyone who does.;)

Ah, the classic Deus Ex Machina comes out. Q has threatened to destroy the Enterprise, the Federation or the entire human race how many times? How do you know he wouldn't help the Empire, given his past record?

'The Phantom Menace', 'Attack of the Clones' and 'Revenge of the Sith' never happened.

You hear me, NEVER happened!

I find this one of the more convincing arguments :p

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2132191450919625556&q=star+wars+conan

I find this one of the more convincing arguments :p

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2132191450919625556&q=star+wars+conan

Excellent contribution to the thread. Very, very funny!

:D

I'm thinking within the "10" range.
Then the follow-ups .... Coke vs. Pepsi,
Ford vs. Chevy,
Tastes Great vs. Less Filling,
Old Kolchak vs. New Kolchak .....

The chasm divides us evermore, evermore.... :(


You forgot:

Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla
Godzilla vs Mothra
Godzilla vs King Kong
Godzilla vs Gamera
Godzilla vs Gidra and....
Godzilla vs [insert latex rubber monster here]

star trek. by miles.

should be a poll
How can you say that?
The Trekkies are the Evil Empire unlike th 'Rebels' in Star Wars.

How can you say that?
The Trekkies are the Evil Empire unlike th 'Rebels' in Star Wars.

Trekkies are people too. Now George Lucas, he is evil.

SW... cuz seriously, it has jedi in it! and Boba Fett... no one ever comes close to the bad assness of Boba Fett, not even Shatner...

Star Wars.

Trekkies are people too. Now George Lucas, he is evil.
He is part of the Empire.
*shifty eyes*

I hereby bump this thread in the name of sir Geekalot, noble prince of geekness.

Darth Nihilius from Kotor 2 would just feed on the life-energies of everyone with the force...so long Star trek suckers. :D

Lets see...

SW spawned record grossing box office sales, several wards for achievement, changed the face of Hollywood forever, and spawned the greatest Sequel of all time..and four more movies, all of wich did extremely well and is loved by billions of fans all over the world.

Star Trek was a cheesy show, with a cult following, wich hit a resurgence of popularity in the mid to late 80's, several mediocre films starring an aging cast, several spin off's who also had mediocre films, and appeals mainly to males aged 12-30, especially sci-fi nerds.

There really is no debate....

Star Wars kicks ass all over Star Trek.

Lets see...

SW spawned record grossing box office sales, several wards for achievement, changed the face of Hollywood forever, and spawned the greatest Sequel of all time..and four more movies, all of wich did extremely well and is loved by billions of fans all over the world.

Star Trek was a cheesy show, with a cult following, wich hit a resurgence of popularity in the mid to late 80's, several mediocre films starring an aging cast, several spin off's who also had mediocre films, and appeals mainly to males aged 12-30, especially sci-fi nerds.

There really is no debate....

Star Wars kicks ass all over Star Trek.
star trek is a multimillion dollar franchise. you know it took 4 million US dollars to make a single episode of TNG back in the day? based on that, assuming paramount made profit from ST (which they did), ST must be more than "some cheesy show with a cult following"

I say the Ur-Quan win.

star trek is a multimillion dollar franchise. you know it took 4 million US dollars to make a single episode of TNG back in the day? based on that, assuming paramount made profit from ST (which they did), ST must be more than "some cheesy show with a cult following"


I was referring to the original series, when I said "Cheesy".
It was...you must admit it.

TNG probably had better ratings than ST ever did.

Taste in entertainment is subjective, so theres no way to accurately judge wich one is "better".
All we can do, is go by popularity, and gross sales, and achievements.
In that regard, Star Trek doesnt even come close to Star Wars.

Besides..we all know that even the lowliest Jedi could kick the arses of every ST bridge officer at once.
At the same time.

I was referring to the original series, when I said "Cheesy".
It was...you must admit it.

TNG probably had better ratings than ST ever did.

Taste in entertainment is subjective, so theres no way to accurately judge wich one is "better".
All we can do, is go by popularity, and gross sales, and achievements.
In that regard, Star Trek doesnt even come close to Star Wars.

Besides..we all know that even the lowliest Jedi could kick the arses of every ST bridge officer at once.
At the same time.
ah well if you meant TOS then thats fair enough - it is cheesy :p


and yes, any jedi could pwn any ST bridge crew.... except commander Wharf... because he's just too cool! :D

*cough* (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/129560)
*cough* (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/179616)

ah well if you meant TOS then thats fair enough - it is cheesy :p


and yes, any jedi could pwn any ST bridge crew.... except commander Wharf... because he's just too cool! :D

*cough* (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/129560)
*cough* (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/179616)


Warf??

Hes no Boba Fett.
Although that may be a good fight.

Kirk...that is all

Star Wars - X-Wing.

Star Wars - X-Wing.
big deal Star Trek had the defiant...eventually...but you know what Star Trek never had....Jar Jar Binks

big deal Star Trek had the defiant...eventually...but you know what Star Trek never had....Jar Jar Binks

Yet they had Tribbles.

Yet they had Tribbles.

I'll take tribbles over Jar Jar Binks and Ewoks anyday...not to mention the Xmas special

I'll take tribbles over Jar Jar Binks and Ewoks anyday...not to mention the Xmas special

True, but they'll soon be a thousand times more Tribbles. And that might get inconvenient.

http://www.scoutwalker.com/

That about wraps it up...ST is chanceless against the sexyness...

Lets see...

SW spawned record grossing box office sales, several wards for achievement, changed the face of Hollywood forever, and spawned the greatest Sequel of all time..

Star Wars spawned Aliens/Day Of The Dead/Mad Max II?

big deal Star Trek had the defiant...eventually...but you know what Star Trek never had....Jar Jar Binks

I really couldn't care less about either of them. Jar Jar Binks, Tribbles, I don't care. I just like X-Wings.

Although that may be a good fight.
*nods* damn right

big deal Star Trek had the defiant...eventually...but you know what Star Trek never had....Jar Jar Binks
No, they had worst...Wesley

Star Trek. I set the phaser on kill, and I turn people into smoking footprints.

Also, there's the transporter, which is a really neat plot device.

And there's no Jar Jar Binks in Star Trek. Annoying characters yes, but nothing as bad as Jar Jar.

Star Trek. I set the phaser on kill, and I turn people into smoking footprints.
Star Wars. Building giant armored battlestations, blow up planets :D

Also, there's the transporter, which is a really neat plot device.
Unless there's an ion storm in the area...or any sort of electrical interference...strange metals...weird gases too...

And there's no Jar Jar Binks in Star Trek. Annoying characters yes, but nothing as bad as Jar Jar.
The unholy combination of Wesley and Neelix trumps anything Jar Jar can be accused of, and we only had to deal with his nonsense for a 2hr movie. You were stuck with those guys for entire seasons.

Eh, the phaser set to kill has so many holes. Like the fact that a phaser on kill can't even burn a metal crate, but hey, never mind that medieval knights would be unaffected by sci-fi weapons.

I say, in a fight, SW takes it any days. an ISD would be able to take out the federation single handed, and probably mop up their allies for afterwards. Double this under the circumstances that the federation tries to stand up in a ground fight. Ever seen a fed tank? or even anything bigger than that odd rocket launcher Worf had? What about an HMG? oh well. Not to mention that even Han Solos blaster pistol rips pretty big chunks out of a concrete wall on tatooine, and Jango Fetts siesmic charges can rip asteroids to shreds with casual ease, whilst the turbolaser batteries on an ISD can literally vapourise asteroids. Then we've got the sheer size of the Empire. 12 million systems, and the production capability to build the death star IN SECRET in six months. As for teleporters? When you consider that an imperial marine contingent aboard an ISD is 9,700, and that fed transporters can be blocked by common ore in mountainsides.... yeah.

Removing myself from "canon" arguments, SW is just more entertaining than ST, and has an expanded universe with pretty unbelievable depth.

To begin with keep in mind you are comparing feature length films (created as such) against series (where there must be an episode storyline, a season story line adn and overall story line)
With the constraints that Trek has over the constraints that Wars has then obviously Star Wars has the greater potential to be a better story because it doesnt have to give you a definate ended after each episode (or double barreled episode :P) also consider that the budget for films is usually higher (and or less spread than on a series)

Regardless of these constraints they are both completely different and i liek them both but id say Star Trek wins outright :P theres just more watchability, ive seen all the star wars films within the last year so i wont watch tehm again for ages but every time i turn on the tv im almost guarenteed an episode of star trek (TNG, DS9, etc etc) that i havnt seen in ages or have never seen.

Star Wars is certainly more of a just for everyone film (Where as Star Trek requires some interest in Sci-Fi) based on the fact that they dont really explain anything, The technology just works, they just get there and anything they do explain "Use the Force" tends to sum it up. (Its more of an action film with a bit of Sci-Fi where as Trek is a Sci-Fi with a bit of action)

Well, if I had to pick my favorite scifi series/film, it wouldn't be SW or ST.

My favorite series was Babylon 5.

While ive got you SW fans and Sci Fans together :)
Something that i came up with, or noticed after watching teh first I II & III (newest) three films was a n argument of Capatilism over Communisim (Marxism maybe a better example) using Star Wars as a base :P

(anyone who doesnt care can move on now lol)

Its not concrete ofc just a very vague outline, (Force Power = Wealth Sorta :P)

Dark Side - Values = Do things for yourself, if you are stronger (richer) you are higher ranked as such and there are only a few highest ranked Dark Sith (Low distribution of power/wealth)
(One of Adam Smiths trading thing was the best thing someone can do for the group is to do what is best for himself) == Capatism

(obviously they arnt mirror images but its closer, excusing the part of doing evil ofc imo doing everythign for profit and ignoring who pays for it is evil :P)

Light Side - Values = Everyone is equal and you do the best thing for the group by helping others, the Jedi concil sits and they are all equal (yoda although he may be listened to and respected more gets no extra votes :P) == Marxism.

I know I know they arnt direct mirror images but i do think that each side looks like it wasnt necessarily influenced by Capalism/Communism (maybe just by the values which each were also influenced by)
I.e. what im trying to say that in a perfect world (it would be like the Good/Light Side of the force) and much closer to Communism (the ideals of) where everyone is equal and you do things to help others just for the sake of helping others (and do nothing for yourself because that leads to the dark side, when you start to abuse your power for yourself you are led to doing more evil things with it)
Than to Capatism which would (in an extreme view, remembering that the Good/Evil, Light/Dark allows no gray areas like modern life) allow for much greater doing things to get stuff for myself, using my talents skills and abilitys to make money for myself to buy things for myself.

Anyway sorry for making this political its just something i noticed with the newest films and wondered if anyone thinks im talking compeltel ballax or i shold publish it in a report to high level government :P lol

Well, if I had to pick my favorite scifi series/film, it wouldn't be SW or ST.

My favorite series was Babylon 5.

Hell yes i loved that series better than both, absolutely loved it. I watch a series a week for 5 weeks :P we are talking 3 or 4 hours of it a night at some points, in fact i think i may have watched 7/8 episodes back to back just to see what happened :)

Although my favorite Sci-Fi Series is Stargate Sg-1 :P i like the realisticness/time period its set in (it could be going on right now! :P !) the Sci-Fi is always good (as Sci-Fi is always good) and the religious references it has :)

Hell yes i loved that series better than both, absolutely loved it. I watch a series a week for 5 weeks :P we are talking 3 or 4 hours of it a night at some points, in fact i think i may have watched 7/8 episodes back to back just to see what happened :)

Although my favorite Sci-Fi Series is Stargate Sg-1 :P i like the realisticness/time period its set in (it could be going on right now! :P !) the Sci-Fi is always good (as Sci-Fi is always good) and the religious references it has :)

I wish Firefly had kept going.

I wish Firefly had kept going.

Yes its a shame, in my head it will always keep going :D

In fact i may end up watching the whole series from start to finish again.. (this is all your fault!!! :P) i should have it on dvd somewhere :)

Star Wars spawned Aliens/Day Of The Dead/Mad Max II?


If it weren't for SW you wouldn't have the SFX-industry you have today...so yeah. :D ;)

Who will win the battle??


Wil WHeaton V. Hayden Christensen in a bare knuckles brawl

http://www.starfleetlibrary.com/tng/images/WilWheaton02.gif VS. http://movietab.com/wp-content/0030.jpg


BEGIN!

I'd have to say Star Wars, overall. It has an epic quality, like a myth, that makes it very enjoyable. Star Trek seems like a documentary at times by contrast.:D

To begin with keep in mind you are comparing feature length films (created as such) against series (where there must be an episode storyline, a season story line adn and overall story line)...
Star Wars is certainly more of a just for everyone film (Where as Star Trek requires some interest in Sci-Fi) based on the fact that they dont really explain anything, The technology just works, they just get there and anything they do explain "Use the Force" tends to sum it up. (Its more of an action film with a bit of Sci-Fi where as Trek is a Sci-Fi with a bit of action)

So you think they really explain things in Star Trek? They just make up a new elementary particle to explain the odd effect in that particular episode.

Although you do have to love Geordi LaForge's "Wait a minute..." last-second crisis-solving ability. As in "Wait a minute - if we can re-route one huge bursty of tetrinoid particles through the secondary calibrators..."
Also: the main deflector dish is the most multipurpose device in existence. Makes the super-deluxe Swiss Army Knife look small minded... :)

I wish Firefly had kept going.
OMFG!
Somethine ELSE i COMPLETELY concur with DK about! :eek:

*scrubs vehemently*
"Unclean! Unclean!" ;)

Well, if I had to pick my favorite scifi series/film, it wouldn't be SW or ST.

My favorite series was Babylon 5.
Excellent writing. Shows what a 5-year script plan can provide versus single-episode-drop theory.

You forgot:

Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla
Godzilla vs Mothra
Godzilla vs King Kong
Godzilla vs Gamera
Godzilla vs Gidra and....
Godzilla vs [insert latex rubber monster here]
True. My bad.

Is this some kind of sick joke? Star Wars.. *sigh*

Oh, it would've been cool to have a poll. :)

I hereby bump this thread in the name of sir Geekalot, noble prince of geekness.

Darth Nihilius from Kotor 2 would just feed on the life-energies of everyone with the force...so long Star trek suckers. :D
You bastard! YOU DID THIS!!!


....KHAN!!!!!
*echoes across a barren moonscape, dissipates into space's lack of reverberative integrity, embeds into psyches of impressionable fans*

I generally prefer Star Wars, but good old Patrick Stuart makes ST worth watching any time.

Then again, I vastly prefer Babylon 5 to both, much less geekery, much more poetry. It is in a different galaxy, if you'll excuse the pun.

Theres no doubt about it Star Wars whips Star Trek anyday. But what about the next sci-fi movie and or t.v. series that comes all and has a following greater then the two combine. My guess it will also be called Star something maybe Star Voyage or Star Battles! lol

Theres no doubt about it Star Wars whips Star Trek anyday. But what about the next sci-fi movie and or t.v. series that comes all and has a following greater then the two combine. My guess it will also be called Star something maybe Star Voyage or Star Battles! lol
Well, you can cross Wagon Train to the Stars off the list ;)

Or it could be called Trek to the Star Wars or Star Treking to the Wars!

Theres no doubt about it Star Wars whips Star Trek anyday. But what about the next sci-fi movie and or t.v. series that comes all and has a following greater then the two combine. My guess it will also be called Star something maybe Star Voyage or Star Battles! lol

The new version of Battlestar Galactica is pretty damn good so far.

And yes, Star Wars is far superior to Trek. Although the newer flicks leave something to be desired, Trek is filled with too much 'mamby-pamby crap.'
How many times do they have to be caught in a time paradox/use the deflectors to create a tachyon pulse/have the holodeck breakdown/struggle with tribbles, etc?

The new version of Battlestar Galactica is pretty damn good so far.

And yes, Star Wars is far superior to Trek. Although the newer flicks leave something to be desired, Trek is filled with too much 'mamby-pamby crap.'
How many times do they have to be caught in a time paradox/use the deflectors to create a tachyon pulse/have the holodeck breakdown/struggle with tribbles, etc?
You can blame *some* of that on Braga. *curses under breath*
The rest you can blame on other things, many of which are likely to be well-deserved.

Bodies Without Organs this in answer to your request in my last thread. :D

Star wars or Star trek? Which do you like better and why?

The forum shudders and shakes with the waves of power and violent disagreement as THE ULTIMATE QUESTION arrives at NS General.....

As far as the actual debate goes? STAR WARS! It isn't even a question.

STAR WARS > star trek

7H3 517H PWN J00!!!1110101011

Star Wars: Grand, majestic space opera with unforgettable characters and an interesting story, especially in the new movies, even though the new ones' dialogue and such aren't as good. There's a reason the movies have branded themselves onto our cultural consciousness - they're just that fundamental, timeless, and powerful. 9 out of 10 people can't do much more than say 'Star Trek' when you say 'Capt. Picard', if even that. But say 'Darth Vader', and you'll hear the breathing, the Imperial March theme, and quotes from his dialogue out of everyone's mouth.

Star Trek: Deus ex machina-filled show (how many times can you connect the Alpha Crystal with the Red Cable and solve everything?) that's utterly unrealistic even when it attempts to be the opposite. Star Wars doesn't try - the point isn't the technology. Star Trek, on the other hand, has all this complicated-sounding scientific jargon - but it's all meaningless gibberish. The aliens are also just people in makeup (unlike SW), and the storyline is convoluted and pointless. The whole show is just kinda dumb.

Star Wars: Know the Dark Side, and you will achieve a power greater than you can imagine.

Star Trek: This does not compute, Captain!

9 out of 10 people can't do much more than say 'Star Trek' when you say 'Capt. Picard', if even that. But say 'Darth Vader', and you'll hear the breathing, the Imperial March theme, and quotes from his dialogue out of everyone's mouth.
Well, you're right about Vader, but anytime anyone says "Capt. Picard" to me, i immediately think,
"Aaaaard kraxon Leeeeesss... Risssssss... Trassssss.... Trasulah!"
and that part where he tossed the gun to his other hand and punched out the Ferengi,
and the part where he yelled "NO FURTHER!" and smashed the display case on the U.S.S. Enterprise 1701-E.
But you can have it your way i guess ... :(

Star Wars is clearly better. It has lightsabers, the gold bikini and Padme Amidala.

The only thing that comes close in the Star Trek universe is the ToS.

Anyway, Star Trek is just so fucking twee these days, it makes me want to puke.