NationStates Jolt Archive

:) I have the right to call my beliefs "truth" just as you have the right to call it "unproven beliefs."

Of course you do, then again I have the right to say that the world is full of mystical faries and that is the truth. That doesn't make it true though.

Of course you do, then again I have the right to say that the world is full of mystical faries and that is the truth. That doesn't make it true though.

And I'm not offended. However, I did miss your point. Was there one?

And I'm not offended. However, I did miss your point. Was there one?
Just because you say its true doesn't make it so is the point.

I always thought American schools were anti-religion in general, not just christianity.


Hahahaha! HA! HAhhahaha! No! If you're a Jew then the Public school system likes you. If you're a Muslim then the Public school system likes you. If you're a Christian then the Public school system doesn't like you. If you're a Catholic then the public school system likes you. If you're a Hinduist, Buddhist, Agnostic or athiest then the public school system LOVES you!

Just because you say its true doesn't make it so is the point.

I never claimed it was true simply because I said so. Please read and try to understand what you are replying to before you press the "submit reply" button.

I think it's hard being a christian teen with how the world is. It's even harder going to public school. However, it helps me stand up for my beliefs and be strong in the Lord because i face many trials on a day to day basis. What do you think?

lauren
I find it hard to be sympathetic toward you for thinking it is hard to be a Christian, regardless of age, when your country is over 75% Christian. You are hardly an abused minority. As for facing trials on a daily basis, it is also my experience that most teenagers don't have the slightest idea what real trials are. I'm not saying that's the case for you because I don't know what your life is like, but considering that you're living one of the richest countries in the world and are presumably being properly fed and clothed, you're already better off than a good half of the world's population.

:) I have the right to call my beliefs "truth" just as you have the right to call it "unproven beliefs." I pray you aren't offended that easily, else the world is a painful place for you. We will take every opportunity to help someone in need by offering them the comfort of knowing that there is a higher force out there watching out for them. Many people do not agree with "Christianity" simply because they are misinformed or the only "christians" they have met are the "holier-than-thou" kind aforementioned; therefore, we see it as our duty to present them with the option of Jesus whenever possible. Christians should not approach people with a high-and-mighty attitude; the Christian life is, essentially, humble and obedient following of our Lord. However, there is always that proverbial "bad apple."

First off im not offended i went back an edited in a part i forgot about that. On to the real subject, you have the right to call your beliefs whatever you want but under the english deffinition of the word truth, your beliefs are not truth. I dont agree with most christians because they tell my i will go to hell because i don't believe jesus christ is my saviour and they preach to me when it was unsolicited, I have no problem with the christian faith as a whole. Unfortunatly you seem to be the kind who believes in unsolicited preaching, is this the case?

I find you use of the word truth offensive, not really but its the wrong use of the word. Your beliefs aren't truth they are your unproven beliefs. Jesus isn't my saviour, you may believe him to be but again thats just you. If someone wants to learn about jesus they will do so, there is absolutley no reason to go around preaching it to those who don't want to hear it. Thats essentially spam of the worst kind.


If your neighbor's house is on fire will you call out, "FIRE?" Or will you stare at it and pressume the neighbor don't wanna hear none of dat? This is not so much telling unfaithful they are wrong (they are) but letting them know that there is something better waiting for them, that they have worth, that there is a dangerous fire encroaching. And would you say that the claim "George Washington lived" as truth? Sure, anybody would, it makes sense. Then again; have you ever seen George Washington? No. You go off of paintings and accounts. Well there are paintings of God and there are accounts of God. So if you want to talk about hypocrisy there it is! You believe George Washington existed but you refuse to believe God exists when there is proof enough for both of them.

First off im not offended i went back an edited in a part i forgot about that. On to the real subject, you have the right to call your beliefs whatever you want but under the english deffinition of the word truth, your beliefs are not truth. I dont agree with most christians because they tell my i will go to hell because i don't believe jesus christ is my savious and they preach to me when it was unsolicited, I have no problem with the christian faith as a whole. Unfortunatly you seem to be the kind who believes in unsolicited preaching, is this the case?

Well, seeing as this is a Christian thread according to the title, no, I'm not an unsolicited preacher. Anyone who willingly enters this thread is subjecting themselves to Christian thoughts and beliefs. Whether or not you believe what I call truth to be the "actual" truth is your choice; the fact of the matter remains that I can call it whatever I want. Your reference to Christian beliefs as "unproven" is questionable pertaining to the English language. Parts of the bible can be proven just as solidly as historical fact. To be entirely correct, the statement would be something like, "We will do our best to present our mostly faith-based (but, in some cases, historically proven) proverbs, beliefs, and testimonies to whomever (in our opinion) is in need of such support."

I think it's hard being a christian teen with how the world is. It's even harder going to public school. However, it helps me stand up for my beliefs and be strong in the Lord because i face many trials on a day to day basis. What do you think?

lauren


Its christmas tree, not christian teen. And yes, its so hard to be.

Its christmas tree, not christian teen. And yes, its so hard to be.

... hard to be a Christmas tree? Do you have personal experience? :D

I never claimed it was true simply because I said so. Please read and try to understand what you are replying to before you press the "submit reply" button.

I understood the context of your post and I posted a reply to a specific part of it. Its fine and dandy for you to believe what you want and to say that its the truth but as I said before believeing something is the truth doesn't make it the truth and the same goes for the opposite.

I think it's hard being a christian teen with how the world is. It's even harder going to public school. However, it helps me stand up for my beliefs and be strong in the Lord because i face many trials on a day to day basis. What do you think?

lauren

its really not easy to stay true to moral and religious beliefs in todays society but just remember that God is always watching over all of us and He is there to help us when we need Him. We just need to ask. Pray a lot and read your bible. It's simple and it works wonders. :)
God Bless

I'm just interested, someone earlier said that god thinks you should go with your parents beleifs and whatnot, and therefore christians do and non-christians dont. in my case i have totoally aetheist parents, my dad's beleif is that christianity gets in the way of sanity most of the time, though he would never assume this rule to be absolute. someone also said that to be christian you gotta act like one and follow their rules. which leaves me in a catch-22-esque situation whereby i can chose no path on which not to contradict god. if i chose to embrace religion and its people i go against the will of both my parents, which would be sinful, resulting in me not being a christian and so i should be going off to hell when i die, and of course rejecting christianity wont get me to heaven either. so is it literally impossible for me to get to heaven? and if so should i start commiting as many sins as possible on a daily basis because it wont matter anyways?

Or hows about, dont pray alot, burn your bible, and try thinking for yourself?

I find it hard to be sympathetic toward you for thinking it is hard to be a Christian, regardless of age, when your country is over 75% Christian. You are hardly an abused minority. As for facing trials on a daily basis, it is also my experience that most teenagers don't have the slightest idea what real trials are. I'm not saying that's the case for you because I don't know what your life is like, but considering that you're living one of the richest countries in the world and are presumably being properly fed and clothed, you're already better off than a good half of the world's population.

Actually we are the minority. Did you know that only 4% of our generation of teenagers are professed Christians?

its really not easy to stay true to moral and religious beliefs in todays society but just remember that God is always watching over all of us and He is there to help us when we need Him. We just need to ask. Pray a lot and read your bible. It's simple and it works wonders. :)
God Bless

Under that notion, God led me astray when I asked for guidance six years ago, when I was a wee bit confused as to what to believe(I'm still searching for answers)?

You know, I don't mind Christians. However, I do mind Christians who believe they are being prosecuted and have it hard. Go to Ethiopa. See how hard life is. You have it easy compared to over there. Not only that, but guess what? Your religion isn't under attack by those who want to topple it. Infact, your religion isn't under attack at all. You only see it that way because you've been told to see it that way. Quite frankly, if you want your religion to be under attack, go to a Muslim nation. Until then, enjoy your freedom to believe what you want to, and don't force it onto others. In today's society it is SO much easier to stay a "true and moral" Christian than it was, say, 500 years ago. Back then if you were a woman who wore men's clothing, you'd be burned at the stake and called a heretic. You have it easy. Very easy.

Actually we are the minority. Did you know that only 4% of our generation of teenagers are professed Christians?

I find this statistic hard to believe. Do you have a source for that?

I'm just interested, someone earlier said that god thinks you should go with your parents beleifs and whatnot, and therefore christians do and non-christians dont. in my case i have totoally aetheist parents, my dad's beleif is that christianity gets in the way of sanity most of the time, though he would never assume this rule to be absolute. someone also said that to be christian you gotta act like one and follow their rules. which leaves me in a catch-22-esque situation whereby i can chose no path on which not to contradict god. if i chose to embrace religion and its people i go against the will of both my parents, which would be sinful, resulting in me not being a christian and so i should be going off to hell when i die, and of course rejecting christianity wont get me to heaven either. so is it literally impossible for me to get to heaven? and if so should i start commiting as many sins as possible on a daily basis because it wont matter anyways?

It's not impossible for you to go to heaven. The Bible says to HONOR thy mother and father. If they are a bad influence, always remember that God is your father first and foremost. Obey them when it is in the will of God. The worst punishment is for those who led children astray. Jesus says, "I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - a man's enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me..." Matthew 10:35-37

Well, seeing as this is a Christian thread according to the title, no, I'm not an unsolicited preacher. Anyone who willingly enters this thread is subjecting themselves to Christian thoughts and beliefs. Whether or not you believe what I call truth to be the "actual" truth is your choice; the fact of the matter remains that I can call it whatever I want. Your reference to Christian beliefs as "unproven" is questionable pertaining to the English language. Parts of the bible can be proven just as solidly as historical fact. To be entirely correct, the statement would be something like, "We will do our best to present our mostly faith-based (but, in some cases, historically proven) proverbs, beliefs, and testimonies to whomever (in our opinion) is in need of such support."

Im not saying your posts in here are unsolicited im talking about refference you made to telling people about jesus, you seemed to imply that you do this in unsolicited situations. I don't know if you do thats why i asked. Most of your beliefs are unproven, this shouldn't offened you as its really about faith instead of proven fact.

If your neighbor's house is on fire will you call out, "FIRE?" Or will you stare at it and pressume the neighbor don't wanna hear none of dat? This is not so much telling unfaithful they are wrong (they are) but letting them know that there is something better waiting for them, that they have worth, that there is a dangerous fire encroaching. And would you say that the claim "George Washington lived" as truth? Sure, anybody would, it makes sense. Then again; have you ever seen George Washington? No. You go off of paintings and accounts. Well there are paintings of God and there are accounts of God. So if you want to talk about hypocrisy there it is! You believe George Washington existed but you refuse to believe God exists when there is proof enough for both of them.

Preaching about god and jesus is in no way the same as telling people that their house is on fire. I don't believe there house is on fire, it is on fire i can see the flames. You have no actual proof of god. The comparison of George Washington to god is just drivel, George Washington was seen by many people at the same when they were in a perfectly lucid state. There is legal documentation of his existence, land deeds etc. He left a mark on this world that is undeniably left by him, god did not. No group has seen god walking down the street, there really is no factual proof of gods existence. You may believe he left this but again thats not fact, as other religions have explinations for these facts of god, thats what you believe. Now i'm not saying you are wrong maybe there is a god, no one really knows for sure. Im sure you'll comeback and say you do but that argument holds no weight so hopefully we can skip that. You sir are the type of person i have no hope for. You refuse to accept that your beliefs aren't then end all an be all, there is no more proof that your god exists then there is that greek gods exists. Yet you would tell these people that they are wrong just because you believe it to be so, basically you have no tolerance and its people like you that started the crusades. You like to portray your beliefs as facts and that is not the case they are your beliefs get over it an accept that. You have the holier-then-thou attitude.

This is not so much telling unfaithful they are wrong (they are)

I want to single this out because this really shows your ignorance, you say we are wrong but you really have no basis to say that. I mean whats your proof, the bible and other religous documents? Every religion has those and they dont prove the existence of their god. It sets the beliefs they should follow and thats fine but it in no way proves that its the one true correct religion.

You say WE have no tolerance, but most of the flaming going on here is being committed by the anti-christian posters. I had to point that out, but I'm hoping we can all mature a bit and get over the name-calling, "you're closed-minded and ignorant" stage. I was looking forward to a friendly debate; you cite your beliefs and your basis, we cite ours. I do not believe I am an "unsolicited preacher." When someone is distressed or in great need of comfort, I do my best to offer what I have. Is that so terrible? I don't shove my beliefs down their throat; I simply remind them of the open offer. If they seem to be offended, I stop. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Also, I wasn't offended by you calling my beliefs "unproven." I was simply pointing out that if we were to be entirely correct, (as you implied with your statement about how my definition of "truth" was apparently whacked), the controversiality of that statement had to be addressed.

Well, I would really like to continue this conversation, but it's about 1 AM here and I've only got about enough time to take a nap before I have to get up for school. Heh... :rolleyes: I hope you have a nice night or good day or whatever time it is wherever you are. I'm sorry if I came on as too harsh; I really didn't mean to. I hope to talk to you later on the forums - you really are a good debatist... if that's even a word.

Piresia i didn't mean to offened you and i dont recall calling you ignorant or saying you have no tolerance or saying that all christians have no tolerance. As i said i was asking if you preach unsolicited, if someone comes to you and asks for help then it isn't unsolicited so you should just answer no ;) Like i said i have no problems with your beliefs. I believe in a higher power myself, i don't necessarily believe it is divine though.

As for the other person i replied too, can be bothered to look up his name, to tell me and others that im wrong because i don't share his beliefs is the deffinition of intolerance and ignorance.

Actually we are the minority. Did you know that only 4% of our generation of teenagers are professed Christians?
I don't generally know things that aren't true. Only 4% of teens are evangelicals (1999), but at last count, 82% were Christians (1999), with 62% believing that the Bible is completely accurate in all of its teachings (2000). I doubt that the number of Christian teens has dropped from 82% to 4% in the past six years.

You say WE have no tolerance, but most of the flaming going on here is being committed by the anti-christian posters.

But you DID see those threads opened by The Loyal Christians all the time? What would you call that, if not flaming non-Christians?

Ok, I'll admit that he's doing a lousy job by being such an obvious troll, but my point stands.

then by your own words, how in the world can you people try and force all that christian crap down our throats? you think we are stupid because our religion doesn't believe in jesus while being ignorant of the rest and you try and force your opinion down our throats, taking away our rights of opinion
this is what i get for finishing my exams?

I believe people are incorrect in not following Jesus. I dont believe they are stupid. There are many very intellegent people who don't follow Christianity. Intgellegence is not corisponding to being accurate. As for forcing Christianity down peoples throats, I dont do that. I tell people about it and explain it etc but I dont force it.

I believe people are incorrect in not following Jesus. I dont believe they are stupid. There are many very intellegent people who don't follow Christianity. Intgellegence is not corisponding to being accurate. As for forcing Christianity down peoples throats, I dont do that. I tell people about it and explain it etc but I dont force it.

And it is your right to voice your opinion.
However, every right comes with a responsibility. If you drone on and on about Christianity and about the fact that your belief is the right one whereas all other beliefs are wrong (or incorrect), you'll have to live with the fact that people will get annoyed with you and let you know.
That's basically their right to voice their opinion...

There are a whole bunch of you "holier-than-thou", God shall smite anyone who doesn't think EXACTLY as I do Christian freaks at my school, so I have ZERO sympathy for you.

I hope your life becomes a living hell, since you seem to think that is where everyone who doesn't think EXACTLY as you do will wind up for DARING to disagree with you!

i second that
have you read the old testament? if you're like most "christians" you probably haven't... but that's reason enough for no one to want anything to do with that abomination you call your religion.

i second that
have you read the old testament? if you're like most "christians" you probably haven't... but that's reason enough for no one to want anything to do with that abomination you call your religion.

Most Christians I personally know, including myself, have read the entire Bible.

My daughter is 13, and has already read the entire thing several times. On her own, without being forced to do so.

Of course you can add most of Walt Whitman, Tolkein, and Emily Dickinson and myriad other authors to the list she's read... most of them before she was eight.

Christains have a victim complex. Alot of people say it's America in general, but it's not. It's the christains who think not turning Science class into Sunday School is an attack upon morality.

The 'victim complex' you refer to is not so much about Christians in America, but about Christians around the world, see here

For most citizens of Iraq, the invasion meant the end of tyranny. For one group, however, it meant a new start: the country’s historic Christian community. When the war stopped, persecution by Islamists, held in check by Saddam, started.

At a church in Basra I visited a month after the war ended, the women complained of attacks against them for not wearing the Islamic veil. I saw many Christian-owned shops that had been firebombed, with many of the owners killed for exercising their legal right to sell alcohol. Two years and many church attacks later, Iraq may still be occupied by Christian foreign powers, but the Islamist plan to ethnically cleanse Iraq of its nearly 2,000-year-old Assyrian and Armenian Christian communities is reaching fruition.

There is nothing unusual about the persecution of Iraqi Christians, or the unwillingness of other Christians to help them. Rising nationalism and fundamentalism around the world have meant that Christianity is going back to its roots as the religion of the persecuted. There are now more than 300 million Christians who are either threatened with violence or legally discriminated against simply because of their faith — more than any other religion. Christians are no longer, as far as I am aware, thrown to the lions. But from China, North Korea and Malaysia, through India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they are subjected to legalised discrimination, violence, imprisonment, relocation and forced conversion. Even in supposedly Christian Europe, Christianity has become the most mocked religion, its followers treated with public suspicion and derision and sometimes — such as the would-be EU commissioner Rocco Buttiglione — hounded out of political office.

I am no Christian, but rather a godless atheist whose soul doesn’t want to be saved, thank you. I may not believe in the man with the white beard, but I do believe that all persecution is wrong. The trouble is that the trendies who normally champion human rights seem to think persecution is fine, so long as it’s only against Christians. While Muslims openly help other Muslims, Christians helping Christians has become as taboo as jingoistic nationalism.

On the face of it, the idea of Christians facing serious persecution seems as far-fetched as a carpenter saving humanity. Christianity is the world’s most followed religion, with two billion believers, and by far its most powerful. It is the most popular faith in six of the seven continents, and in both of the world’s two biggest economies, the US and Europe. Seven of the G8 richest industrial nations are majority Christian, as are four out of five permanent members of the UN Security Council. The cheek-turners control the vast majority of the world’s weapons of mass destruction.

When I bumped into George Bush in the breakfast room of the US embassy in Brussels last month, standing right behind me were two men in uniform carrying the little black ‘nuclear football’, containing the codes to enable the world’s most powerful Christian to unleash the world’s most powerful nuclear arsenal. Christians claiming persecution seem as credible as Bill Gates pleading poverty. But just as Christian-majority armies control Iraq as it ethnically cleanses itself of its Christian community, so the power of Christian countries is of little help to the Christian persecuted where most Christians now live: the Third World.

Across the Islamic world, Christians are systematically discriminated against and persecuted. Saudi Arabia — the global fountain of religious bigotry — bans churches, public Christian worship, the Bible and the sale of Christmas cards, and stops non-Muslims from entering Mecca. Christians are regularly imprisoned and tortured on trumped-up charges of drinking, blaspheming or Bible-bashing, as some British citizens have found. Just last month, furthermore, Saudi Arabia announced that only Muslims can become citizens.

The Copts of Egypt make up half the Christians in the Middle East, the cradle of Christianity. They inhabited the land before the Islamic conquest, and still make up a fifth of the population. By law they are banned from being president of the Islamic Republic of Egypt or attending Al Azhar University, and severely restricted from joining the police and army. By practice they are banned from holding any high political or commercial position. Under the 19th-century Hamayouni decrees, Copts must get permission from the president to build or repair churches — but he usually refuses. Mosques face no such controls.

Government-controlled TV broadcasts anti-Copt propaganda, while giving no airtime to Copts. It is illegal for Muslims to convert to Christianity, but legal for Christians to convert to Islam. Christian girls — and even the wives of Christian priests — are abducted and forcibly converted to Islam, recently prompting mass demonstrations. A report by Freedom House in Washington concludes: ‘The cumulative effect of these threats creates an atmosphere of persecution and raises fears that during the 21st century the Copts may have a vastly diminished presence in their homelands.’

Fr Drew Christiansen, an adviser to the US Conference of Bishops, recently conducted a study which stated that ‘all over the Middle East, Christians are under pressure. “The cradle of Christianity” is under enormous pressure from demographic decline, the growth of Islamic militancy, official and unofficial discrimination, the Iraq war, the Palestinian Intifada, failed peace policies and political manipulation.’

In the world’s most economically successful Muslim nation, Malaysia, the world’s only deliberate affirmative action programme for a majority population ensures that Muslims are given better access to jobs, housing and education. In the world’s most populous Muslim nation, Indonesia, some 10,000 Christians have been killed in the last few years by Muslims trying to Islamify the Moluccas.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, most of the five million Christians live as an underclass, doing work such as toilet-cleaning. Under the Hudood ordinances, a Muslim can testify against a non-Muslim in court, but a non-Muslim cannot testify against a Muslim. Blasphemy laws are abused to persecute Christians. In the last few years, dozens of Christians have been killed in bomb and gun attacks on churches and Christian schools.

In Nigeria, 12 states have introduced Sharia law, which affects Christians as much as Muslims. Christian girls are forced to wear the Islamic veil at school, and Christians are banned from drinking alcohol. Thousands of Christians have been killed in the last few years in the ensuing violence.

Although persecution of Christians is greatest in Muslim countries, it happens in countries of all religions and none. In Buddhist-majority Sri Lanka, religious tension led to 44 churches being attacked in the first four months of 2004, with 140 churches being forced to close because of intimidation. In India, the rise of Hindu nationalism has lead to persecution not just of Muslims but of Christians. There have been hundreds of attacks against the Christian community, which has been in India since ad 100. The government’s affirmative action programme for untouchables guarantees jobs and loans for poor Hindus and Buddhists, but not for Christians.

Last year in China, which has about 70 million Christians, more than 100 ‘house churches’ were closed down, and dozens of priests imprisoned. If you join the Communist party, you get special privileges, but you can only join if you are atheist. In North Korea, Christians are persecuted as anti-communist elements, and dissidents claim they are not just imprisoned but used in chemical warfare experiments.

Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, director of the Barnabas Trust, which helps persecuted Christians, blames rising global religious tension. ‘More and more Christians are seen as the odd ones out — they are seen as transplants from the West, and not really trusted. It is getting very much worse.’

Even in what was, before multiculturalism, known as Christendom, Christians are persecuted. I have spoken to dozens of former Muslims who have converted to Christianity in Britain, and who are shunned by their community, subjected to mob violence, forced out of town, threatened with death and even kidnapped. The Barnabas Trust knows of 3,000 such Christians facing persecution in this country, but the police and government do nothing.

You get the gist. Dr Paul Marshall, senior fellow at the Centre for Religious Freedom in Washington, estimates that there are 200 million Christians who face violence because of their faith, and 350 million who face legally sanctioned discrimination in terms of access to jobs and housing. The World Evangelical Alliance wrote in a report to the UN Human Rights Commission last year that Christians are ‘the largest single group in the world which is being denied human rights on the basis of their faith’.

Part of the problem is old-style racism against non-whites; part of it is new-style guilt. If all this were happening to the world’s Sikhs or Muslims simply because of their faith, you can be sure it would lead the 10 O’Clock News and the front page of the Guardian on a regular basis. But the BBC, despite being mainly funded by Christians, is an organisation that promotes ridicule of the Bible, while banning criticism of the Koran. Dr Marshall said: ‘Christians are seen as Europeans and Americans, which means you get a lack of sympathy which you would not get if they were Tibetan Buddhists.’

Christians themselves are partly to blame for all this. Some get a masochistic kick out of being persecuted, believing it brings them closer to Jesus, crucified for His beliefs. Christianity uniquely defines itself by its persecution, and its forgiveness of its persecutors: the Christian symbol is the method of execution of its founder. Christianity was a persecuted religion for its first three centuries, until Emperor Constantine decided that worshipping Jesus was better for winning battles than worshipping the sun. In contrast, Mohammed was a soldier and ruler who led his people into victorious battle against their enemies. In the hundred years after the death of Mohammed, Islam conquered and converted most of North Africa and the Middle East in the most remarkable religious expansion in history.

To this day, while Muslims stick up for their co-religionists, Christians — beyond a few charities — have given up such forms of discrimination. Dr Sookhdeo said: ‘The Muslims have an Ummah [the worldwide Muslim community] whereas Christians do not have Christendom. There is no Christian country that says, “We are Christian and we will help Christians.”’

As a liberal democrat atheist, I believe all persecuted people should be helped equally, irrespective of their religion. But the guilt-ridden West is ignoring people because of their religion. If non-Christians like me can sense the nonsense, how does it make Christians feel? And how are they going to react? The Christophobes worried about rising Christian fundamentalism in Britain should understand that it is a reaction to our double standards. And as long as our double standards exist, Christian fundamentalism will grow

People don't kill each other solely over religion, or ideology, either. I know it sounds stupid, but religion as a cause of war is used by ignorant athiests. Check up on it. Name me one war were the cause was specifically religion.

Have you ever heard of the Crusades, probably the most famous of religious wars? What about the numerous wars between Protestant and Catholic rulers in the 1560s in Europe? There was also the Thirty Years War between 1618-1648. Hindus and Muslims are constantly fighting in India. The war in Bosnia-Herzegovina was among the religions of Muslim, Roman Catholic, and Serbian Orthodox. The wars in Northern Ireland between Protestants and Catholics is based on religion. Part of the religion of Islam includes jihads, or holy wars. And although the genocide commited in World War II by Hitler against the Jews was not specifically about religion, it stems back to an ideal that religion upholds, which is "I am better than you; my religion is the right one". I could name you many more examples if you are still unsure. Look into the history of Africa, Indonesia, Russia, the Middle East, early South American and Mexican, Eastern Europe, or most anywhere else in the world. There are so many wars based on religion. And as with all war, other elements of course come into play, but many wars have been founded on religious beliefs. It seems that maybe you should study up a little more before accusing others of being ignorant. In 1999 many world leaders from Buddhist, Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian, Jewish, Muslim and many other faiths issued the Geneva Spiritual appeal asking political and religious leaders and organizations to ensure that religions are not used to justify violence in the future, which shows that all of these people who were a part of this document and passed it, the leaders and succesors of these wars believed they were based on religion and spirituality. Such a document would not be needed if some wars were not based on religion.

Screw the whole christian thing. Its one of the most senseless religions in the world. Become a Jew. w00t w00t.

Ooo and referin 2 what the guy above was sayin.

Spanish Inquesition
Cold War
Jihad
HaMass
September 11
Slaying Infedels (both christians and muslems)
WorldWar II

Screw the whole christian thing. Its one of the most senseless religions in the world. Become a Jew. w00t w00t.

Ooo and referin 2 what the guy above was sayin.

Spanish Inquesition
Cold War
Jihad
HaMass
September 11
Slaying Infedels (both christians and muslems)
WorldWar II

Jewish? now I don't mean to sound offensive, but COME ON
that's one of the most cult-like large religions, a lot of meaningless rituals and stuff.

But really any religion is a bad idea (note:religion, not faith, faith is fine)

I go to school and I'm shocked and diusgusted by the open sex that goes on there. They all advocate sex before marriage, they all see no problem with blashpeming. I find it disturbing.
For gods sake! Whats wrong with sex before marrage? I presume that you mean kissing and hugging not actaul open sex here. This is from a teen by the way who goes to a secondary modern school. Yes we, me and my mates that is, have to problem with sex before marrage, and kiss and hug and lot. We blaspheme a lot as Chirst Almighty and jesus are regular words in conversation. But i fail to see why you should see this as desturbing-but if you do i hope you'll have no problem with me seeing your belifs as disturbing?

i agree, it's very, very hard being a christian teen. people ask you "does god hate me because i'm gay?" and they want a 2-second answer. if you can't give them one, they decide your god sucks. if you compress it into a 2-second answer, it's "no", and then they murder the school chaplain (stupid cathlic schools...) for lying. people find you have a bible in you rbackpack, what do they do? tear it to pieces. and burn it. and throw it in a puddle. (this all taking place in a catholic school). i had everything i had with me at the time stolen/destroyed for stating that my gf and i are not planning on having sex. that's the typical life a christian teen. so thanks to all the rest of you who stand firm in your faith, makes me feel like i'm not the only one. this post is probably waaaaaaaay out of context by now, but w/e.

and people, please stop dissing us for what we believe. as far as i know (forgive me if i'm wrong) we don't ever diss you for not believing what we believe. and it breaks our hearts to *believe* that you're not gonna make it to heaven, so please quit giving us crap when we try to help. cuz that's all we wanna do. help.

Screw the whole christian thing. Its one of the most senseless religions in the world. Become a Jew. w00t w00t.

Ooo and referin 2 what the guy above was sayin.

Spanish Inquesition
Cold War
Jihad
HaMass
September 11
Slaying Infedels (both christians and muslems)
WorldWar II

The cold war was between russia and america... it was basically an arms race. It had precious little to do with religion....

From one perspective the Cold War had something to do with religion. The Communist Bloc cut straight into the heart of where most religions started. So, most of the nations that were adamently opposed to Communism were primarily Christian and Muslim. They "banned together" to fight off the Communists and then proved that they really are wrong by going straight back to fighting each other. A side note: how the hell is it "hard being a christian these days"? Try being a Communist. You think that's easy? Try going to school and being mistaken for a Nazi (it happens, it really does). But your right, having more than 75 percent of the population share your religious beliefs must be really difficult. I mean, it must be horrible to know that you have 3/4 of the nation behind you. Oh wait thats right, Christians are so divided between the little sub-religions that they think of themselves as practically separate religions. Try going to school and being sent to the office for no other reason than the fact that you checked out the Communist Manifesto from the school library. That actually happened, I needed a political book for a history class so I went to the school library and rented it (my copy was at home) and the next day they practically had a McCarthy hearing in the office. Until the government collapeses and the Chinese take over (I wish for it every day), in which case you would REALLY know what being persecuted feels like, quit bitching and enjoy your theocracy while it lasts. This very forum proves me right, look at the lot of you, arguing over which religion is right instead of dealing with problems that actually matter. If there really is a god, I'll bet he's siding with the Communists. Because the Communists are actually focusing on forcing tolerance and getting rid of gender/racial/religious motivated prejudice.

P.S. I'll bet that little bit about God liking Communists steamed up you Christians/Muslims. Just want you to know that I could care less about pissing you off, I just want to prove a point. I could sit here all day and make fun of religion, but I don't want to be writing that long...discuss.

Try going to school and being sent to the office for no other reason than the fact that you checked out the Communist Manifesto from the school library. .


Seriously? Sheesh. I mean, its not even that good! :eek:

If anyone's got the time I've been wondering for a while about the idea of all human beings are sinful until they are saved. As I understand it the idea of all people being sinful came down from the Garden of Eden and original sin, how do Christians who believe in evolution justify it?

I realise that this is irrelevant to the thread but I have been puzzled by this for a while and I'd appreciate it if someone could explain. Thanks :)

If anyone's got the time I've been wondering for a while about the idea of all human beings are sinful until they are saved. As I understand it the idea of all people being sinful came down from the Garden of Eden and original sin, how do Christians who believe in evolution justify it?

I realise that this is irrelevant to the thread but I have been puzzled by this for a while and I'd appreciate it if someone could explain. Thanks :)


evolution n christianity don't mix bc if u don't believe in creation in 7 litteral days you are calling God a lier and then u might as well not believe ne thing else he says bc then that means God is flawed which he isn't

lauren

evolution n christianity don't mix bc if u don't believe in creation in 7 litteral days you are calling God a lier and then u might as well not believe ne thing else he says bc then that means God is flawed which he isn't

lauren

I know quite a few Christians who believe in evolution. I think the Vatican also issued a statement recently saying that parts of the Bible (including Genesis) were not meant to be taken literally but rather as metaphor. Also, IIRC there are two accounts of Creation in Genesis so one of them must be false.

I won't start yet another evolution vs. creationism argument here though as I realise this is a Christian discussion.

evolution n christianity don't mix bc if u don't believe in creation in 7 litteral days you are calling God a lier and then u might as well not believe ne thing else he says bc then that means God is flawed which he isn't

lauren
Funny, the Catholic fricking Church seems to have no problem with the ToE. Neither does the Society of Friends, the Unitarians, UCC, and most other Christian churches. When you get down to it, only a very tiny minority of Christians don't accept evolution.

P.S. Use capitalization, punctuation, grammar, and actual words.

Funny, the Catholic fricking Church seems to have no problem with the ToE. Neither does the Society of Friends, the Unitarians, UCC, and most other Christian churches. When you get down to it, only a very tiny minority of Christians don't accept evolution.

P.S. Use capitalization, punctuation, grammar, and actual words.


Sorry for not using capitalization, punctuation, grammar and for using computer slang. That's just the way I am i'm sorry if that offends you.

If you're a Christian then the Public school system doesn't like you. If you're a Catholic then the public school system likes you.

Fallacious statment?

evolution n christianity don't mix bc if u don't believe in creation in 7 litteral days you are calling God a lier and then u might as well not believe ne thing else he says bc then that means God is flawed which he isn't

lauren

Do people actually believe that the universe was created in the time it would take for the earth to rotate on its axis seven times? For sure, no plant or animal in the best of circumstances could be created in seven "literal" days. Come on give your head a shake. And, if you don't believe that that is possible, you are not "calling God a liar". That is ridiculous and makes no logical sense. If God is indeed the mysterious force that created the universe, it isn't human, and it seems unlikely that it ever "said" anything to anyone... never mind lied about anything.

evolution n christianity don't mix bc if u don't believe in creation in 7 litteral days you are calling God a lier and then u might as well not believe ne thing else he says bc then that means God is flawed which he isn't

lauren
Just wondering if you've ever heard of a metaphore?

Noodle--

I am saying this as a friend and a Catholic. You must realize you in mostly enemy territory. To many of these people, religion is fine as long as you don't actually believe in it. That is who you are dealing with here. This is a "pick your battles" moment.

Noodle--

I am saying this as a friend and a Catholic. You must realize you in mostly enemy territory. To many of these people, religion is fine as long as you don't actually believe in it. That is who you are dealing with here. This is a "pick your battles" moment.
No, I have no problemw ith religion, even if you do balive it. Just keep it to yourself and don't try to convert me.

i must say that cathlics have had about 500 years more to think about this so:
one must make his own chocie to become part of god
now for all you who dont understand that this means: to go to hevan one has to make the choice to go to hevean,

you can not convert you can only urge one might say well what about the inquisition and the conquestadors, what van i say they were spainsh it was a power thing and nothing to do with a belifes

i give my non chistian friends thanks for putting up with my faith
ado from a cathlic

Noodle--

I am saying this as a friend and a Catholic. You must realize you in mostly enemy territory. To many of these people, religion is fine as long as you don't actually believe in it. That is who you are dealing with here. This is a "pick your battles" moment.

I think this statement is a little unfair. The majority of the Atheists on this forum (myself included) have no problem with religion as long as nobody tries to force it on us. I only queried Noodle's statement on evolution when she effectively said that any Christian who accepts Evolution wasn't a proper Christian, thereby dismissing most European Christians as 'fake'.

Sorry for not using capitalization, punctuation, grammar and for using computer slang. That's just the way I am i'm sorry if that offends you.

:D Its not offensive Lauren, its just plain irritating! 'Txt spk' might seem like its easier and faster to read, but its neither. Plus it appears on the surface that you don't put much effort into your typing, which transcends into putting effort into your argument ;)

Seriously, do you actually believe the literal version that it took 7 days to make the world? Seriously?!