NationStates Jolt Archive

You should see the 1 1/2 year old screw up her face and in a creaky witchy voice say, "Yes my master?" It's HILARIOUS!!!!
Aahahahahahaha! [ struggles to imagine that! ] :D

Lil kids are sooo kewl! :D

King? Well I didn't vote for you! Just because some watery tart tossed you a sword...
"Watery tart!" ROFLMFAO! Sinuhue, you're on a roll! :D

And I was simply pointing out that you were attacking others. You then over-reacted to my post and, well, here we are.
Hmmm...overreacted to THIS:And who the fuck are you to tell me what traditions and cultures are wrong? Put the shoe on the other foot for once. Perhaps I have issues with your culture, but I dont go around starting shit and refusing to really allow an open discussion by flying off the handle anytime anyone posts anything you dont agree with.
Yeah, maybe I did. Because you full on accused me of TELLING YOU that certain traditions and cultures are wrong. So if I jump to defend myself against that accusation, perhaps you can understand why. Then you go on to accuse me of other things. So you know what, I think I reacted the way that post was MEANT to get me to react. With anger that you would just jump in and start talking shit about me.

"Watery tart!" ROFLMFAO! Sinuhue, you're on a roll! :D
*screams in rage*
Quit trying to stop me from sliding into a forum ban:D

When I got married, we kept our last names but also took the other's last name. We hypenated our names.

Thus, Mr. Smith and Ms. Jones became Mr. and Ms. Smith-Jones.

Again, what if they're in disagreement? The child would get confused if they had two different messages coming from the parents.
Happens far more often that you can imagine! :(

So you havent been telling Carnivorous that the way he and his family decide to interact was wrong?

Actually, it has seemed to be the other way. Sin has been trying to figure out exactly how Carn's family does interact, since what he has been describing has not matched up to what he has been saying. He's basically said, "I am the absolute head of my family. Oh, but we discuss everything and I don't force anything on my wife." Those two things aren't really compatible statements.

Meanwhile, Carn has tried to tell Sin more than once that she and her husband cannot be equal partners in their relationship - that one of them *must* be the head.

Actually, it has seemed to be the other way. Sin has been trying to figure out exactly how Carn's family does interact, since what he has been describing has not matched up to what he has been saying. He's basically said, "I am the absolute head of my family. Oh, but we discuss everything and I don't force anything on my wife." Those two things aren't really compatible statements.

Meanwhile, Carn has tried to tell Sin more than once that she and her husband cannot be equal partners in their relationship - that one of them *must* be the head.
THANK YOU FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DEM, because I'm starting to think I'm losing my mind, and while existing in a state of lobotomy, I've been running around telling everyone to shut up and do as I do. Cripes.

*screams in rage*
Quit trying to stop me from sliding into a forum ban:D


I think I just heard that scream! Are you smearing white out and hi-lighters on your face like war paint?

Anyway- "watery tart" is amongst my favorite non-obscene things to call a woman.
I didnt figure you for one quoting that scene.

We never argue in front of them. And decisions get discussed in private...none of this...dad said no, so I'll ask mom and she'll say yes crap.
Which can sometimes be a mistake. My out-laws were fond of having all their arguments in private ... right up to the point where their kids began asking my wife why there was something wrong with them ( their kids ) because they had arguments and their parents never did. :rolleyes:

I think I just heard that scream! Are you smearing white out and hi-lighters on your face like war paint?

Anyway- "watery tart" is amongst my favorite non-obscene things to call a woman.
I didnt figure you for one quoting that scene.
Haven't I told you I own the complete Monty Python collection?

And no war paint...but I did accidentally crush my water bottle, stomp it underfoot, twist it until it split open, then mashed it some more while I jumped around mouthing (not screaming...someone would hear) obscenities...

Why get married at all?
Exactly!

I just foresee ... differences of opinion on a lot of issues with me and my now-gf (possibly fiancee in a couple days? ;) ) because she was raised an only child, and I have a younger sister... so our ideas of raising a family are a little different. It should be interesting...
One of the very best things you can do for each other is to try and reach agreement on this sort of issue before you get married. You'll save yourselves a lot of grief and get to know each other even more. :)

Which can sometimes be a mistake. My out-laws were fond of having all their arguments in private ... right up to the point where their kids began asking my wife why there was something wrong with them ( their kids ) because they had arguments and their parents never did. :rolleyes:
It depends...we might argue over who gets the last piece of garlic bread...and we play wrestle, and hit each other with various objects for fun (we let the kids join in too)...but when it comes to serious matters, (an actual argument where we're mad at one another), we save it for a private time (which works out well, because of the make-up sex and all). As well, we've agreed that later on when the kids ask us for sleep-overs, piercings and so on, that the kids will NOT be privvy to our discussions, but rather our decisions and our rationale for those decisions. My parents did that...it meant we could never play them off one another.

Nothing bothers me more than parents who say hurtful things to each other in front of the kids, or who fight in public.

Actually, it has seemed to be the other way. Sin has been trying to figure out exactly how Carn's family does interact, since what he has been describing has not matched up to what he has been saying. He's basically said, "I am the absolute head of my family. Oh, but we discuss everything and I don't force anything on my wife." Those two things aren't really compatible statements.

Meanwhile, Carn has tried to tell Sin more than once that she and her husband cannot be equal partners in their relationship - that one of them *must* be the head.


Wait...did you just say "head"?


Maybe I havent stated what I wanted to clearly enough-Sin has a way of confusing the shit out of me and then I lose my desire to assert myself. She does spin wild circles sometimes.

I often make the final decisons after my wife defers to me or supports what I decide. I sign contracts, bills, checks loans, paperwork are in my name. I accept final responsibilty for our household.
but I dont blindly demand things go my way-I do pay attention to everyone else's wants and needs before I do anything. I act in a way I feel best suits my family. I dont make selfish decisions.

I pointed out to Sin that it doesnt appear they make equal decisons in her house, though she said they do. She has a very strong persnality. I dont see her bowing down to a man to often.
And I really joked about it.

I wont criticize other peoples way of running a family when it appears to work. Different groups work well in different ways.

Mine is going fine and I like to hear Sin's is too. So I dont have to go up there and straighten things out.

Haven't I told you I own the complete Monty Python collection?




You're kidding? Now I must taste you...

... it was about how much tv was being watched by our kids.
We threw ours out when the kids were in gradeschool and didn't buy another one until they were in HS. I didn't want to buy one even then, but my wife insisted because she "wanted the kids to be able to watch the Christmas specials." In retrospect she admits that was a bad decision. :p

Wait...did you just say "head"?


Maybe I havent stated what I wanted to clearly enough-Sin has a way of confusing the shit out of me and then I lose my desire to assert myself. She does spin wild circles sometimes.

I often make the final decisons after my wife defers to me or supports what I decide. I sign contracts, bills, checks loans, paperwork are in my name. I accept final responsibilty for our household.
but I dont blindly demand things go my way-I do pay attention to everyone else's wants and needs before I do anything. I act in a way I feel best suits my family. I dont make selfish decisions.

I pointed out to Sin that it doesnt appear they make equal decisons in her house, though she said they do. She has a very strong persnality. I dont see her bowing down to a man to often.
And I really joked about it.

I wont criticize other peoples way of running a family when it appears to work. Different groups work well in different ways.

Mine is going fine and I like to hear Sin's is too. So I dont have to go up there and straighten things out.I also think that bystanders have a way of misunderstanding our level of bantering. You and I are used to the way we talk, and so we can say things to each other that might actually be insulting to others. I have no problem telling you to kiss my ass if you say something that pisses me off...and I know the reverse is true. In this case, I'm trying to define what it is that makes you consider yourself the head of the family. I think you've actually (finally, heheheh) done that...you're saying that you have the ultimate responsibility for your household is yours. But to me, that isn't the same as being the 'head' of the family in the traditional sense...

In any case...you're right, I don't bow down to my husband, but neither does he bow down to me. We defer to one another in specific cases...division of labour. I'm not going to tell him how to wire the house, and he's not going to tell me how to teach the girls guitar. But if he was a wuss, I wouldn't want him, and if I was an overbearing bitch, he'd get sick of me quick. Anyway.

It also not uncommon for grandparents to be involved in the process.
My wife and I never intervene in our children's affairs, including the rearing of their children, unless asked. We raised them the best we knew how and now it's their turn in the barrel! :D

We threw ours out when the kids were in gradeschool and didn't buy another one until they were in HS. I didn't want to buy one even then, but my wife insisted because she "wanted the kids to be able to watch the Christmas specials." In retrospect she admits that was a bad decision. :p
One lady I know raised her kids with no tv, and said that they constantly had problems because they never got any of the pop-culture references in school, or with their friends. She says now that she thinks they went overboard. My husband and I were worried about how much tv the kids were watching...I thought the solution would be to ditch the tv to the basement, where we never go, but he thought we should just keep it and it would work itself out. Well it didn't...the kids were watching a LOT of tv, so we went back to the drawing board, and set up a rigid schedule that no one is allowed to break (including ourselves). It's an inconvenience, but we feel strongly enough about it to do it.

My wife and I never intervene in our children's affairs, including the rearing of their children, unless asked. We raised them the best we knew how and now it's their turn in the barrel! :D
I wish my in-laws would follow your lead...nosy parkers.

You're kidding? Now I must taste you...
Careful, I'm covered in lark's vomit:D

Confusion still happens, but it is at a manageable level (and some level would occur even if people picked their own names because people coul well pick the same names) without surnames it wouldn't be manageable. You can't ask a newborn baby to choose a surname, so the parents have to, so it comes to the same thing really.

Surnames are unnecessary. One name can be just as original as two if we made an effort. What has more combinations, if I assigned you one 4-digit identifier or two 2-digit identifiers? Hint: They're the same. Because you're not original enough to come up with a good first name doesn't mean everyone needs to meet your convention.

No one suggested a newborn pick their name, so you're arguing a strawman. Adults, however, when marrying should be welcome to pick their name, the label by which people address them. I'll encourage it in my children. I made that clear the first time, yet you keep mentioning newborns. No one suggested that I wouldn't name my children only that I wouldn't encourage them to keep the name I gave them when they go out to start their own family.

and why not the wife's, it has to be one or the other, might as well be the husbands as the wife.

That's the point. Might as well be the wife's or the husband's. Right now it's always the husband's for no reason other than convention.

People have always wanted to watch the best in the sports they know and like. Men perform to a higher level than women, why is it wrong that they get more money? If Michelle Wie for example, makes it into a major golfing tournament then people will watch her because she has raised her performance to the level of the stars of the sport.

If you compared the talent and atheleticism of atheletes at the time when male sports made the same amount of money as female sports do now you'd see the same disparity. Take basketball. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant, would have smoked entire teams of players from the fifties or even the 70's. As the money for a sport goes up so does the pool of talent the sport can pick from, the amount money that goes into training from a young age, etc. When female professional atheletics become more mature you will see a similar level of talent. Men perform to a level higher than women only in sports that pay a lot of money.

Men and women are different but men are not more atheletic. Women martial artists often beat male martial artists in the same sport if it's on points. If it's based on power, then men win. Men tend to be bigger, stronger. Women have quicker reflexes, better peripheral vision. Women are better designed for defense and men are better designed for offense when it comes to martial arts, for example. Women are more flexible and more resillient. Men and women are different.

The difference in pay, however, is because we value sports more that have men. As we value the contribution of women more (much like in the workplace) we will see their contribution become more comensurate with mens'.

If you compared the talent and atheleticism of atheletes at the time when male sports made the same amount of money as female sports do now you'd see the same disparity. Take basketball. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant, would have smoked entire teams of players from the fifties or even the 70's. As the money for a sport goes up so does the pool of talent the sport can pick from, the amount money that goes into training from a young age, etc. When female professional atheletics become more mature you will see a similar level of talent. Men perform to a level higher than women only in sports that pay a lot of money.


This is such a weird off-topic conversation...

*screams in rage*
Quit trying to stop me from sliding into a forum ban:D
Noooo! Mwahahaha! [ evil grin! ] :D

I also think that bystanders have a way of misunderstanding our level of bantering. You and I are used to the way we talk, and so we can say things to each other that might actually be insulting to others. I have no problem telling you to kiss my ass if you say something that pisses me off...and I know the reverse is true. In this case, I'm trying to define what it is that makes you consider yourself the head of the family. I think you've actually (finally, heheheh) done that...you're saying that you have the ultimate responsibility for your household is yours. But to me, that isn't the same as being the 'head' of the family in the traditional sense...

In any case...you're right, I don't bow down to my husband, but neither does he bow down to me. We defer to one another in specific cases...division of labour. I'm not going to tell him how to wire the house, and he's not going to tell me how to teach the girls guitar. But if he was a wuss, I wouldn't want him, and if I was an overbearing bitch, he'd get sick of me quick. Anyway.

So...I DONT have to leave you bloodied and whimpering, sitting on the floor of a rest-stop bathroom?

Careful, I'm covered in lark's vomit:D


I dont even know what that is. It would have to be pretty bad though, to keep me from licking you roughly from head to toe. For like 3 hours.

Nothing bothers me more than parents who say hurtful things to each other in front of the kids, or who fight in public.
Hmm. Perhaps we're using different definitions for the word "fight." :confused:

So...I DONT have to leave you bloodied and whimpering, sitting on the floor of a rest-stop bathroom?
As long as the blood is minimal, and caused by biting during the throes of ecstasy, that actually sounds fine! Except the restroom better be clean...

I dont even know what that is. You missed my Monty Python reference? Shame on you!

Hmm. Perhaps we're using different definitions for the word "fight." :confused:
Hmmmm...don't know....you used the word argument, and I mean fight as in argue in this case.

doesn't make much sense to me either.
my mum kept her maiden name and i'm sure i only got just my dads' cos having both would sound weird :p (crazy mix of welsh and polish :D)

I often make the final decisons after my wife defers to me or supports what I decide. I sign contracts, bills, checks loans, paperwork are in my name. I accept final responsibilty for our household.
but I dont blindly demand things go my way-I do pay attention to everyone else's wants and needs before I do anything. I act in a way I feel best suits my family. I dont make selfish decisions.

*practical question*

are you leaving your wife without any bills or contracts in her name? does she have her own bank account?

not to criticize the way you run your home its just that its unwise to leave your wife without any credit history to draw on in the case of your sudden death.

But this is not usually done in Latin America. The woman keeps her own surname, and the children get the father's AND the mother's surname.


I know that in Cuba children keep both names, and in Korea (North and South) the woman keeps her own name when she gets married.

Different customs... It's good to bear in mind that our way is neither a "norm" nor the only one.

To be perfectly honest, if I ever get married, I *would* like my wife to take my name. Call it male egocentrism of whatever you like. If she didn't want to, I'd be disappointed, but it wouldn't be a major problem. I would never decide whether or not to marry someone based on whether or not she agrees to take my name. ;)

That was the general impression I was getting. I'm pretty traditional in many aspects of life/lifestyle. I see tradition often questioned and challenged in here as if it were wrong.
My family flourishes under the system we have. Everyone is respected and has their own identity. I'm not some oppressive, overbearing loudmouth from the 50s, looking for the missus to have a drink in her hand and a bow in her hair when I get home.

Actually, from an outside the conversation point of view, it appeared to me that you told everyone that families are dictatorships, not just your family. She called you on it and said hers wasn't. Your response was to take an example of how they worked something out and took the opportunity to point it out as evidence that her family is a dictatorship as well. What she said about your family is that she doesn't understand it (if it works with you having the final say in all things). While she doesn't agree with your style, she didn't attack you and your wife for wishing to adhere to it.

Take your implications and roll them into a big ball and stuff 'em! :p

Won't fit.

This is such a weird off-topic conversation...
*looks guilty* /hijack

I know that in Cuba children keep both names, and in Korea (North and South) the woman keeps her own name when she gets married.

Different customs... It's good to bear in mind that our way is neither a "norm" nor the only one.

True, Japanese and Chinese women also keep their maiden names. Also, naming customs rarely give insight to the actual social context. Korea is just about the most patriarchal society in the world. In that corner of the world women are expected to be servants and are inherently not as resepcted as men. Things are changing in Korea, however, with the influx of western ideas like feminism.

True, Japanese and Chinese women also keep their maiden names. Also, naming customs rarely give insight to the actual social context. Korea is just about the most patriarchal society in the world. In that corner of the world women are expected to be servants and are inherently not as resepcted as men. Things are changing in Korea, however, with the influx of western ideas like feminism.
Yes! This is the point I missed making...my family assumed that my husband would want my name changed, because Chilean society is still more patriarchal than Canadian society. We assumed that patriarchal=more traditional than we, and for some reason, we thought that meant a name change. In fact, Canadians seem more hung up on the name change, though that does not seem to reflect on their level of patriarchy (or lack thereof). I was genuinely surprised to find out that something I'd assumed was universal (for no reason) was actually rather limited in scope.

*practical question*

are you leaving your wife without any bills or contracts in her name? does she have her own bank account?

not to criticize the way you run your home its just that its unwise to leave your wife without any credit history to draw on in the case of your sudden death.


Yes-thanks. I understand exactly what you're saying and yes, we have most things jointly, but she does have a seperate checking account for shopping, etc, as well as a long established credit history-jointly-as well as credit cards in her name only.
The foundation is pretty solid here. And we each have a sensible life insurance policy in the event either of us passes. She works for lawyers too, and as a result, all our affairs are in proper order, so their wont be any drawn out legal jockeying if God forbid, we needed it.
I also have enough cash readily available to run things for several months. I try to have a contingent plan for everything.

Actually, from an outside the conversation point of view, it appeared to me that you told everyone that families are dictatorships, not just your family. She called you on it and said hers wasn't. Your response was to take an example of how they worked something out and took the opportunity to point it out as evidence that her family is a dictatorship as well. What she said about your family is that she doesn't understand it (if it works with you having the final say in all things). While she doesn't agree with your style, she didn't attack you and your wife for wishing to adhere to it.

What I meant to convey was that families should be a dictatorship-not that all are.

believe me-i express myself much better in person. I lose track and interest in here often.

unless we are talking about some type of lewd behavior.

Yes! This is the point I missed making...my family assumed that my husband would want my name changed, because Chilean society is still more patriarchal than Canadian society. We assumed that patriarchal=more traditional than we, and for some reason, we thought that meant a name change. In fact, Canadians seem more hung up on the name change, though that does not seem to reflect on their level of patriarchy (or lack thereof). I was genuinely surprised to find out that something I'd assumed was universal (for no reason) was actually rather limited in scope.
Yeah, this is a pretty interesting discussion and goes to show that naming conventions are more like cultural quirks that are just wildly varied around the world. I think the tradtioinal Jewish culture is similar to Cree culture in that the child's inherent "essence" is traced through the mothers for the very same reason, that is, we can only be assured that hte mother is the real parent. However, traditional Jewish surnames are the fathers surname. In Asia children are generally named after the father's surname, but in many instances (for example, if the mother's family is far more prominent than the fathers family, or if the maternal grandparents have nothing but daughters and therefore the maternal surname's surivval is threatened) then it is completely desirable that the child take the maternal surname. The permutations of naming philosophies are just endless.

What I meant to convey was that families should be a dictatorship-not that all are.

believe me-i express myself much better in person. I lose track and interest in here often.

unless we are talking about some type of lewd behavior.
This would never even be an issue, had Neutered Sputniks not decided that I was a total bitch who needed to be schooled in manners...and had YOU not backed him up by acting like you'd been nursing some secret hurt, believing I'd attacked you and your family, feeling so relieved that someone had come to champion you:rolleyes: Jerk.:fluffle:

What I meant to convey was that families should be a dictatorship-not that all are.

Wouldn't that imply that families that are not dictatorships are "wrong"?

Yes-thanks. I understand exactly what you're saying and yes, we have most things jointly, but she does have a seperate checking account for shopping, etc, as well as a long established credit history-jointly-as well as credit cards in her name only.
The foundation is pretty solid here. And we each have a sensible life insurance policy in the event either of us passes. She works for lawyers too, and as a result, all our affairs are in proper order, so their wont be any drawn out legal jockeying if God forbid, we needed it.
I also have enough cash readily available to run things for several months. I try to have a contingent plan for everything.

im glad to hear it. too many men who think of themselves as boss of the family end up leaving their wives in very vulnerable positions.

i feel i understand your "head of the family" stance quite well now.

Yes! This is the point I missed making...my family assumed that my husband would want my name changed, because Chilean society is still more patriarchal than Canadian society. We assumed that patriarchal=more traditional than we, and for some reason, we thought that meant a name change. In fact, Canadians seem more hung up on the name change, though that does not seem to reflect on their level of patriarchy (or lack thereof). I was genuinely surprised to find out that something I'd assumed was universal (for no reason) was actually rather limited in scope.Well, not to be pedantic, but the Chilean tradition is still patriarchial. It's not the wife's name that is being adopted (or kept) - it's the wife's FATHER'S name. Traditionally, they're linking the two patriarchies.

i feel i understand your "head of the family" stance quite well now.
Except under all his posturing abour 'dictatorships' is just him trying to hide his teddy bear interior under a patriarchal exterior:p

Well, not to be pedantic, but the Chilean tradition is still patriarchial. It's not the wife's name that is being adopted (or kept) - it's the wife's FATHER'S name. Traditionally, they're linking the two patriarchies.
No, the wife's name is a combination of her father's and her mother's name.

Oh, I see...but the mother's name would be her father's name...

Ok, I can see that, and yes, it's still going through the male line, but in a different way than I expected. I thought that like in Canada, the husband would supercede the father.

What I meant to convey was that families should be a dictatorship-not that all are.

believe me-i express myself much better in person. I lose track and interest in here often.

unless we are talking about some type of lewd behavior.

I realize that you and Sinuhue understand each other well, which is why I simply read it rather than chastising you (I know how you like to be chastised) about how you were saying it. Until NS made the claims that Sinuhue was attacking you, I felt no need to mention it at all. I was merely pointing out that, of the two, you were being far more critical of her claims than she of yours, if one were to be objective and not consider any of the context of your relationship to her. With context, we both know she's a snarling bi... nevermind... she's, uh, difficult at times. :p I'm certain that Sin and you were both merely defending your beliefs rather than truly attacking the other's.

To be perfectly honest, if I ever get married, I *would* like my wife to take my name. Call it male egocentrism of whatever you like. If she didn't want to, I'd be disappointed, but it wouldn't be a major problem. I would never decide whether or not to marry someone based on whether or not she agrees to take my name. ;)
i too would quite *like* my (eventual) wife to take my name... its kinda exemplifies the bonding on a sort of individualistic level (that you share a part of your identity shows how much a part of your identity one's partner is)
maybe i'm just a soppy, idealistic romantic :P

but then i gotta ask myself a question: would i really want to take her name? if i were her, would i do it?
frankly, i don't know the answer to that question. part of me says "no!", and part of me says yes for the reason above.
so i figure the only fair thing to do is let one's wife make that decision on her own.

again with my parents, my mum kept her maiden name for many years, but over time she's become less militant feminist (always a source of fun in our family :headbang: ) and has used the family name more and more... she got her passport name changed about 10 years ago now.
unfortunatley she still has some cards and accounts in one name, and her "official"/passport name in the other, so she's reallyoften stopped at airports and that kind of thing :p

This would never even be an issue, had Neutered Sputniks not decided that I was a total bitch who needed to be schooled in manners...and had YOU not backed him up by acting like you'd been nursing some secret hurt, believing I'd attacked you and your family, feeling so relieved that someone had come to champion you:rolleyes: Jerk.:fluffle:

No-silly. A secret hurt? are you kidding? This is me you're talking to. Yo uwere relentless in your quest not to understand me.
And you already know I dont care.

No-silly. A secret hurt? are you kidding? This is me you're talking to. Yo uwere relentless in your quest not to understand me.
And you already know I dont care.
No, I was relentless in my quest TO understand you. Because for all your talk about dictatorships, you weren't describing one. SISSY MAN!

Except under all his posturing abour 'dictatorships' is just him trying to hide his teddy bear interior under a patriarchal exterior:p
oh i understand that part very well

im glad to hear it. too many men who think of themselves as boss of the family end up leaving their wives in very vulnerable positions.

i feel i understand your "head of the family" stance quite well now.


Nothing matters to me more than my family. As long as they are all happy, healthy, safe and well adjusted, I feel I've done a good job. So far. When they are happy-I am happy.

Its a constantly changing job and it takes all my effort.

but its well worth it.

No, I was relentless in my quest TO understand you. Because for all your talk about dictatorships, you weren't describing one. SISSY MAN!

maybe your looking for a cruel despot ruling wit han iron fist.

no-mine is a benevolent dicktatorship. I love them more than myself and I'm not at all worried about an over throw. And,I have an excellent advisor that knows what I want before I do.

seat sniffing trollop

Except under all his posturing abour 'dictatorships' is just him trying to hide his teddy bear interior under a patriarchal exterior:p

dont forget the throbbing member

... seat sniffing trollop
ROFLMFAO!!! [ gets more popcorn ] :D

I realize that you and Sinuhue understand each other well, which is why I simply read it rather than chastising you (I know how you like to be chastised) about how you were saying it. Until NS made the claims that Sinuhue was attacking you, I felt no need to mention it at all. I was merely pointing out that, of the two, you were being far more critical of her claims than she of yours, if one were to be objective and not consider any of the context of your relationship to her. With context, we both know she's a snarling bi... nevermind... she's, uh, difficult at times. :p I'm certain that Sin and you were both merely defending your beliefs rather than truly attacking the other's.


Yep-and the whole time she is seriously yapping and feverishly proving her point, I'm thinking of picking her up by the hips and having at her, real savage-like.
In her head, she's writing her thesis.
In mine, she's doing other things entirely.

Yep-and the whole time she is seriously yapping and feverishly proving her point, I'm thinking of picking her up by the hips and having at her, real savage-like.
In her head, she's writing her thesis.
In mine, she's doing other things entirely.
Oh silly...debate is my mating call. Arguing politics gets me randier than hell. I'm hoping I'll piss you off enough that you'll do exactly as threatened!

I'm going to run now.

My wife, who has taken my name, better have my fucking dinner ready. And it better be good. And all the kids faces freshly scrubbed too.

later- *L*

Oh silly...debate is my mating call. Arguing politics gets me randier than hell. I'm hoping I'll piss you off enough that you'll do exactly as threatened!


you like piss, dont you? You're a dirty girl....

be well.

Oh silly...debate is my mating call. Arguing politics gets me randier than hell. I'm hoping I'll piss you off enough that you'll do exactly as threatened!
[ frantically takes notes for future reference! ] :D

you like piss, dont you? You're a dirty girl....

be well.
And I love it when you talk dirty to me:)

Goodnight...we all know it's you who's going to be making supper:D

its an annoying tradition that should go by the wayside

it makes married women invisible unless you happen to know who they married. whereas a mans marital status is irrelevant to his social visibility

consider those people you went to highschool with but have lost contact with. the boys all have their same names (prettymuch) but to find the girls you have to ask around about what their name might be now. if they got married out of town to someone no one knows, you may not ever be able to find them. that just sucks

its also a problem as you work your way up the ladder in a career. if you impressed boss #1 with your incredible work ethic when you cahnge your name to your husbands that fact may slip through the cracks. if you marry several times, the problem is compounded.

That's actually funny that you mentioned the highschool thing. I went to an all girls highschool. Thinking about it, if most of them get married I'd probably not be able to find my old friends with any ease. That's something I never thought about. I myself am married. I haven't been able to change my last name yet(long story short, it involves the death of a mayor and some white-out on the marraige certificate). I like being able to change my last name to my husband's I don't feel inferior or anything like that because of it. I personally want to change my last name to his because I don't want any obvious connections to my father. And at least with the marraige thing I don't have to go too far out of my way and spend thousnads just to get my name changed on my own. ^_^ Plus to some women it might be more of an emotional thing. They might feel even closely bonded to them by changing their last name.

Apparently my boy is taking my last name, or at the very least the kids are getting mine because its "more interesting."

It definitely shouldn't be expected for the woman to take her husbands name. That just takes you back to a time when women were property...

It saves space and is traditional. Imagine having all your ancestors surnames:

Bob Johnson Smith Jones Walker Van Hickle McProd

Why should a woman take a man's last name upon marriage?

Yeah, why should she.

You don't HAVE to anymore, but there is a strong cultural belief in North America that the woman should take her husband's last name. Even if she doesn't, the children rarely take the mother's name. It's thought of as strange...a denial of the father. Well what about the mother?

It wasn't until I met my husband that I realied this practice is not as widespread as I believed. Being from Chile, I assumed he would be 'traditional' and want me to change my name. But this is not usually done in Latin America. The woman keeps her own surname, and the children get the father's AND the mother's surname.
There is no deep reason for the woman to abandon her name. The only problem is that with generations, the number of surnames after the first one just gets way too long.

It has something to do with the complex of white men. They have this thing that I call "the small member complex" and it makes them take out all the hatred towards their own bodies on others..And make women feel like lesser beings.
That's a classic feminist conspiracy theory if there ever was one! Why do only white men get such rap?

There's no particular reason why a woman should take a man's last name, just as there is no particular reason for the opposite to occur. I wouldn't consider marrying a person who wanted to take my name, just as I wouldn't consider marrying a person who expected me to give up mine.
But isn't "your name" actually just your father's name? Or perhaps you hyphenate with your mother's name too. How many generations of the woman's name do you have after your first name?

I'm only speaking of the US and Canada (shouldn't really be saying North America, because Mexico does not have this tradition), but I always assumed the rest of the world did this too. Now I realise this is false...is this tradition in Sweden as well?
Remember that North American culture is strongly derived from Western European culture.

As far as I am concerned, a new surname should be created for the couple. Surnames are the legacy of a patriarchal system.

As far as I am concerned, a new surname should be created for the couple. Surnames are the legacy of a patriarchal system.I don't think the bureaucracy would care much for it. It's much easier to keep track if the surname stays the same through generations.
Also easier on genealogists.

Yep-and the whole time she is seriously yapping and feverishly proving her point, I'm thinking of picking her up by the hips and having at her, real savage-like.
In her head, she's writing her thesis.
In mine, she's doing other things entirely.
Oh silly...debate is my mating call. Arguing politics gets me randier than hell. I'm hoping I'll piss you off enough that you'll do exactly as threatened!
lol, classic NS General!

Apparently my boy is taking my last name, or at the very least the kids are getting mine because its "more interesting."

It definitely shouldn't be expected for the woman to take her husbands name. That just takes you back to a time when women were property...
Oh horsecrap! Try telling my wife that she's my "property" because her last name is Horn! Sheesh!

Personally, I think everyone coming into my family should have their last name changed to Horn, including those who marry my daughters. That way, the family name is guaranteed in perpetuity. Heh! :p

well i think the reson this traditon is keptis because its been happening for a few thousand years

Oh horsecrap! Try telling my wife that she's my "property" because her last name is Horn! Sheesh!

Personally, I think everyone coming into my family should have their last name changed to Horn, including those who marry my daughters. That way, the family name is guaranteed in perpetuity. Heh! :p
If you read my post properly I said that if a woman is EXPECTED to change her name, that is reminiscent of those days. :rolleyes:

If you read my post properly I said that if a woman is EXPECTED to change her name, that is reminiscent of those days. :rolleyes:
What ... EVER! :rolleyes:

So who is going to tell a woman that she HAS to change her name?

What ... EVER! :rolleyes:

So who is going to tell a woman that she HAS to change her name?

FFS. She may be pressured bu her family, friends, husband. Society has this way of expecting things of people. She may not want to have to explain to everyone why she didn't change her name. It's called soft power. Read some Gramsci.

FFS. She may be pressured bu her family, friends, husband. Society has this way of expecting things of people. She may not want to have to explain to everyone why she didn't change her name. It's called soft power. Read some Gramsci.
LOL! No thanks. BTDT.

So if she doesn't want to explain, then she should just keep her mouth shut. If she doesn't like being pressured by others, tell them for STFU. Simple. :D

I don't think the bureaucracy would care much for it. It's much easier to keep track if the surname stays the same through generations.
Also easier on genealogists.
Then why should a woman inherit her husband's surname? Why not vice-versa?

LOL! No thanks. BTDT.

So if she doesn't want to explain, then she should just keep her mouth shut. If she doesn't like being pressured by others, tell them for STFU. Simple. :D
My, you are an arrogant piece of work, aren't you?

Why should a woman take a man's last name upon marriage?

Yeah, why should she.
Oh, I don't know .... maybe a bit of respect for the guy who loved her enough to ask her to spend the rest of her life with him? :rolleyes:

My, you are an arrogant piece of work, aren't you?
Old habits die slowly...especially in old men :p

My, you are an arrogant piece of work, aren't you?
ROFLMAO!!! Touche! Sometimes I can come across that way, yes.

U gotta prollem wid dat, young dweeb? :D

Oh, I don't know .... maybe a bit of respect for the guy who loved her enough to ask her to spend the rest of her life with him? :rolleyes:
So he can't show her that amount of respect? Its a mutual engagement to my knowledge.

So he can't show her that amount of respect? Its a mutual engagement to my knowledge.
Um ... and just where, pray tell, did I indicate otherwise??? Hmmm? :p

Um ... and just where, pray tell, did I indicate otherwise??? Hmmm? :p
You don't seem to be of opinion that he should inherit her name.

Old habits die slowly...especially in old men :p
Heh! Oh? And would you mind answering the following questions?

1. What "old habits?"

2. What do you consider "old?"

3. Why resort to agism and place your prejudices on display for all to see? :D

Personally, I think everyone coming into my family should have their last name changed to Horn, including those who marry my daughters. That way, the family name is guaranteed in perpetuity. Heh! :p
Don't have that problem. Having a very common last name means I have worries that it will die out anytime soon. ;)

You don't seem to be of opinion that he should inherit her name.
Oh? And just how did you arrive at that rather startling conclusion, young phoole? :p

Oh? And just how did you arrive at that rather startling conclusion, young phoole? :p
Right then. What if your wife asked you to take her surname instead?

Don't have that problem. Having a very common last name means I have worries that it will die out anytime soon. ;)
Kewl ... um, I guess. :confused:

Right then. What if your wife asked you to take her surname instead?
I would hope we could work that out, but if not ... byeeeee! :D

I would hope we could work that out, but if not ... byeeeee! :D
Work it out how?

Children took the father's name because of the historical ancestral power going through the male line. Like there used to be laws in most countries that only allowed male children to ascend to the throne. So therefore, they took the name of their fathers so that they could more easily be identified, and felt more proud of their roots.

The reason it happens nowadays is because of tradition, really.

Work it out how?
LOL! STFU! [ kidding ]

Work it out like actual, you know ... thinking adults? Discussion, reason, logic.

LOL! STFU! [ kidding ]

Work it out like actual, you know ... thinking adults? Discussion, reason, logic.
And what if she insisted that you took it or that you at least created a hyphenated version?

Both myself and my girlfriend have really embarrassing names, and hyphenating them would just sound stupid. If we do ever get married, it would be easier if we just did the traditional thing... I think she'd rather have mine, than I take hers anyway. Lol.

If I ever got married to a guy I'd probably adopt my mother's maiden name and hyphenate it.

If I ever got married to a guy I'd probably adopt my mother's maiden name and hyphenate it.

Hyphenating names is just so "posh". Lol.

The reason why it ever happened was when two families got together, and both names had "weight" in the social arena. At least that would be my best educated guess.

And what if she insisted that you took it or that you at least created a hyphenated version?
Hmmm. Well, I like to think that we loved each other sufficiently to work something as innane as that out. If not, then we need to reconsider marriage. Heh!

Hmmm. Well, I like to think that we loved each other sufficiently to work something as innane as that out. If not, then we need to reconsider marriage. Heh!
You are avoiding giving me a direct answer :p

You are avoiding giving me a direct answer :p
You noticed! :eek:

Hmmm. Well, I like to think that we loved each other sufficiently to work something as innane as that out. If not, then we need to reconsider marriage. Heh!
surely if you married a woman close to your own age you would not insist that she change her name from the one she had had for so very long and that her children probably have.

as long as she's not divorced, i find those women who insist on keeping their ex husbands last name instead of reverting to their maiden name or taking the new husbands name just ODD. with an exception for women who are famous with that name and need to keep it for professional reasons. then i still feel they should use their new husbands name socially.

surely if you married a woman close to your own age you would not insist that she change her name from the one she had had for so very long and that her children probably have.

as long as she's not divorced, i find those women who insist on keeping their ex husbands last name instead of reverting to their maiden name or taking the new husbands name just ODD. with an exception for women who are famous with that name and need to keep it for professional reasons. then i still feel they should use their new husbands name socially.
Yo, Legs! S'up? :D

The topic never even came up when my wife and I were discussing marriage. We did discuss whether I should adopt the three children from her first marriage though. We decided that we would let them grow into teenagers first, then ask them what they wanted to do. They all chose to have their names changed to Horn. :D

Heh. I got married recently, and boy was this an issue. My husband was taken completely by surprise - basically I announced one day, halfway through the wedding plans, 'Oh, by the way, I'm taking your surname.' He looked baffled and wanted to know why. (He was a bit flattered, though.)

It broke down like this, when I made the decision at least:

* About 50 per cent - my conservative streak rearing its ugly head, as it occasionally does, by vaguely informing me that 'it would be a nice thing to do' and 'I would feel more married that way' (it lied about the latter, I feel exactly the same).

* About 25 per cent - my old surname is unpronounceable and unspellable, and the new one isn't. Rhymes with my first name, though.

* About 20 per cent - with all this talk about heads of household I should just keep out of the discussion, but it can't be helped. I am one bossy woman. I do make a concerted effort not to act like the head of a household or to veto decisions, and to involve him in major decisions, but it's a learning process. Basically I wanted to demonstrate that I was capable of giving as well as taking, if that makes any sense.

* About five per cent - a way to declare to the world, 'See these identical surnames? He's MINE. Mess with him and you'll answer to me.'

The more I think about it, the more I think that points three and four may have had a lot more weight than I initially gave them.

Anyway, everyone was surprised, given my feminism/financial independence/loud opinions/tendency to want my own way, and a lot of my friends wanted to know what on earth was going on. I've had a lot of explaining to do...

Heh. I got married recently, and boy was this an issue. My husband was taken completely by surprise - basically I announced one day, halfway through the wedding plans, 'Oh, by the way, I'm taking your surname.' He looked baffled and wanted to know why. (He was a bit flattered, though.)

It broke down like this, when I made the decision at least:

* About 50 per cent - my conservative streak rearing its ugly head, as it occasionally does, by vaguely informing me that 'it would be a nice thing to do' and 'I would feel more married that way' (it lied about the latter, I feel exactly the same).

* About 25 per cent - my old surname is unpronounceable and unspellable, and the new one isn't. Rhymes with my first name, though.

* About 20 per cent - with all this talk about heads of household I should just keep out of the discussion, but it can't be helped. I am one bossy woman. I do make a concerted effort not to act like the head of a household or to veto decisions, and to involve him in major decisions, but it's a learning process. Basically I wanted to demonstrate that I was capable of giving as well as taking, if that makes any sense.

* About five per cent - a way to declare to the world, 'See these identical surnames? He's MINE. Mess with him and you'll answer to me.'

The more I think about it, the more I think that points three and four may have had a lot more weight than I initially gave them.

Anyway, everyone was surprised, given my feminism/financial independence/loud opinions/tendency to want my own way, and a lot of my friends wanted to know what on earth was going on. I've had a lot of explaining to do...

Hurrah, my first double post. Oopsie.

Curse my slow server and impatient nature.

Hurrah, my first double post. Oopsie.

Curse my slow server and impatient nature.
Why did you yield in the end? :confused:

The reason I would like my fiance to take my name is because I am traditional. I figure it would be the least she could do, since without making her sign a prenup I'm giving her a free ride towards half my stuff when she jumps ship.

You don't HAVE to anymore, but there is a strong cultural belief in North America that the woman should take her husband's last name. Even if she doesn't, the children rarely take the mother's name. It's thought of as strange...a denial of the father. Well what about the mother?

It wasn't until I met my husband that I realied this practice is not as widespread as I believed. Being from Chile, I assumed he would be 'traditional' and want me to change my name. But this is not usually done in Latin America. The woman keeps her own surname, and the children get the father's AND the mother's surname.

Taking the man's surname is a new tradition for my people as well. In our belief, the only parent you can be sure of is the mother. Oh yes, there are now paternity tests, and so on, and if it really matters, you may choose to spend the bucks to get one, but unless you are even suspicious, why would you? And why should it matter?

We look at things always down through the mother's line. Things are passed down through that line, heirlooms, knowledge, names. But now, we are following the North American custom of giving the children, and the wife, the surname of the man. This does not just affect our names...(hell, we didn't HAVE surnames before contact anyway), but it actually affects our lines of succession. It's rather annoying.

So what are your opinions on this? Why is it important that a wife, or children, take the man's surname?

Takeing the husbands name was not the norm in England or in Ireland until like the 19th century, but then after Mary Todd Lincoln began to sign all her names important papers &etc with Mrs. Abraham Lincoln, the innovation really took off.
Everyone goes on about how oppresed Muslim women are, but they don't take their husbands name, only their father's name. The kids get the father's name.
So why is it this takeing the husband's name took root in Northern Europe and in North America? I don't know. It's a wierd custom.

I can tell you in Morocco it is not a custom for the wife to take the husbands name. My wife as example in Morocco is still considered by her birth name even though a marriage took place there. The US what we did is used her last name as her middle name. It is also not of custom to use middle names there. Our daughter we used my wifes birth name as her middle name to "connect" her with her mothers side. Although in the US you do not have to take your husbands name. I think its just a personal choice. I don't mind either way. It doesn't make me less of a man.

The reason I would like my fiance to take my name is because I am traditional. I figure it would be the least she could do, since without making her sign a prenup I'm giving her a free ride towards half my stuff when she jumps ship.You know, that goes both ways. A pre-nup protects both people. Particularly since you're using "when" and not "if"...

As far as I am concerned, a new surname should be created for the couple. Surnames are the legacy of a patriarchal system.
This is on a par with certain ethic groups naming their children with names pulled out of thin air. What we're going to wind up with is a whole passle of children with names that mean nothing. :p

lol, classic NS General!
I like the "real savage like" part. Reminds me of that song "Tusk." :D

This is an easy item when it comes to the adults - do what makes you cofortable. but near in mind that the issues with children become more complex.

Hyphenation CAN be a nasty option if both of you have long last names.

Or do you pick straws over what last name for the children? Or alternate? This lets them have to go through repeated explanations why their sibling has a different name. Might make them wonder if the parent whose name they didn't get prefered the other. What if you gave one of your children YOUR last name, and at the age of 10 they came to you and said that they really wanted the other. Would you feel rejected? Will you enjoy the paperwork and costs involved? Or will you tell them they're stuck with what you gave them thereby doing to them what you refused to do to yourself - forcing a name on them.

Or, have you ever tried taking children accross the border for a vacation on your own if their names differ from yours? Bring on the paperwork!

Is it neccessary? No.

Do I think people should do it if they feel uncomfortable about it? Also no.

But if you feel that you are changing your name is an implied ownership feeling on the part of your husband, then you are probably marrying the wrong person.

Mind you, it's not like you got to pick your name originally either, so if you look at it that way it was already something you didn't get to choose.


However, from the daily living standpoint for families, there certainly is some ease in consistency.

This is on a par with certain ethic groups naming their children with names pulled out of thin air. What we're going to wind up with is a whole passle of children with names that mean nothing. :p

As far as most people are concerned, names do mean nothing.

Ask any random guy or girl on the street what their name means and they'll probably have no idea, or they'll think you're being metaphorical. A "what does ____ mean to you?" sort of thing. How many Peters know that peter means rock? How many Monicas know that monica means solitary? At least everyone knows that Apple means a fruit and Jor-el means Superman's dad.

The whole idea of of a woman taking her husbands name is a legacy of the patriarchal system, and it is completly meaningless in a society where most people don't know their great grandfather's name, or can name even one of their second cousins. Few enough people even know what a second cousin is, let alone any of their identities.

That said, my wife did take my name, but she said it was because she liked mine better than hers. It's a British last name and she thought it sounded fancy. Hers was truncated eastern European via Ellis Island. She told me if I had a name like Lipshitz she'd have kept her maiden name. Another legacy of the patriarchal system, because she was certainly no maiden when we got married.

Let's see...why should the woman take the man's last name? I hate to say it, but I know of no better system for all to use universally. Obviously, no system will be used universally, but if we were to go to a single method, then I would pick that one just because it's how a lot of people have always done it.

I suppose we could ALWAYS go with the woman's last name too. No reason not to. Of course, as a society, we have generally gone with the man's last name, so we would have to start flipping things around for the most part. Not too many people would be cool with that.

We could have everyone hang onto their last names. But then what? Whose name do the kids get? Sure, some names are easy to blend, but some are not, and pretty soon, last names become mangled and nonsensical and probably completely made up. That's fine, except tracing genealogy might be a bit trickier.

We could hyphenate, I suppose. Pretty soon, if everyone hyphenates, people have ridiculously long last names. "Hey, let's meet the Smith-Taylor-Jackson-Hawkins-Michaels-Cobb-Sampson-Nahasapeemapetilon family for dinner! Then we can invite the Johnson-Herald-Francis-Mitchell-Isaacson-Carroll-Xavier-Sasparilla family for poker." And that's just after three generations.

I suppose we could do away with last names entirely. OK, so we do away with a big way of identifying people. We could always go with numbering schemes, I suppose (making me Ice Hockey Players 1, a la Logan's Run.) That's fine if everyone is to have unique names. If two people in the same generation have the same first and middle name, then what? Different numbers? Why can't I be Ice Hockey Players 1? Why do I have to be Ice Hockey Players 2? A simple game of Rock Paper Scissors could solve most of these conflicts, sure, but there would still be conflicts.

My fiancee has told me she will take my last name when we get married. I am happy with that; I would be just as happy if she kept her own name. I would be less happy if she hyphenated, since I think that's too confusing, and I told her my last name is staying put. I was fortunate with her. Lots of people have this disagreement; I got lucky and don't have it.

Then how would the child pick which last name to keep, if they've grown up as Johnson-Smith?
I've grown up as "DadName-MomName," and I have no problem choosing which name to keep...they're both mine, and I'm keeping them both!

This is on a par with certain ethic groups naming their children with names pulled out of thin air. What we're going to wind up with is a whole passle of children with names that mean nothing. :p
"Mean nothing"? According to whom? I believe my first and middle names mean a great deal, and my parents "pulled them out of thin air." I am honored to carry my parents' surnames, but I would have been equally honored to carry a surname they picked out for me.

In a way, a selected surname would mean even more, because I wouldn't just be getting it because I happened to be born to Fred Jones and Freda Smith or whatever...I would be getting it because Fred Jones and Frida Smith thought long and hard about the right name for their child. In that sense the pre-set surname customs make surnames even more meaningless, particularly for females who are expected to toss aside any possible heretitary value of their surname as soon as they become their husband's prop--er, wife.

Let's see...why should the woman take the man's last name? I hate to say it, but I know of no better system for all to use universally. Obviously, no system will be used universally, but if we were to go to a single method, then I would pick that one just because it's how a lot of people have always done it.

I suppose we could ALWAYS go with the woman's last name too. No reason not to. Of course, as a society, we have generally gone with the man's last name, so we would have to start flipping things around for the most part. Not too many people would be cool with that.

We could have everyone hang onto their last names. But then what? Whose name do the kids get? Sure, some names are easy to blend, but some are not, and pretty soon, last names become mangled and nonsensical and probably completely made up. That's fine, except tracing genealogy might be a bit trickier.

We could hyphenate, I suppose. Pretty soon, if everyone hyphenates, people have ridiculously long last names. "Hey, let's meet the Smith-Taylor-Jackson-Hawkins-Michaels-Cobb-Sampson-Nahasapeemapetilon family for dinner! Then we can invite the Johnson-Herald-Francis-Mitchell-Isaacson-Carroll-Xavier-Sasparilla family for poker." And that's just after three generations.

I suppose we could do away with last names entirely. OK, so we do away with a big way of identifying people. We could always go with numbering schemes, I suppose (making me Ice Hockey Players 1, a la Logan's Run.) That's fine if everyone is to have unique names. If two people in the same generation have the same first and middle name, then what? Different numbers? Why can't I be Ice Hockey Players 1? Why do I have to be Ice Hockey Players 2? A simple game of Rock Paper Scissors could solve most of these conflicts, sure, but there would still be conflicts.


One solution I've heard (which I happen to like) is for each child to be given the mother's first name as a surname, the father's surname as a middle name (or vice versa, I suppose), and their own brand-new first name. The reason for using the first names is because first names are chosen for us rather than asigned to us based on parental surname...the upshot becomes that your entire name is composed of names that were chosen for individuals (you, your mother, and your father), and thus have much more personal and individual meaning. When you meet somebody and hear their name, you get to learn something about their parents as well, and this could be particularly helpful when dating (to know your girlfriend/boyfriend's parents' names).

Tradition, Simplicity.

But isn't "your name" actually just your father's name? Or perhaps you hyphenate with your mother's name too. How many generations of the woman's name do you have after your first name?

My name is a hyphenation of my father's name and my mother's name. It is true that my mother's name is only her father's, but for me it is symbolic; my name represents the equal partnership my parents formed, and their willingness to break with silly traditions.

My middle name happens to be a "female tradition" in our family as well, but my parents mostly gave it to me because my first name is very unusual (I've never met another person who shares it) and they wanted to give me a traditional middle name in case I grew up and decided I didn't want to use the "weird" first name. Plus it placated the relatives who still couldn't get over my mother keeping her own name.

The most popular, once upon a time was taking the mother's maiden name as a middle name to show your matrilineal connection. And I believe Latin America has a system where there's two last names, and it's the father's last name that gets passed on.

My middle name happens to be a "female tradition" in our family as well, but my parents mostly gave it to me because my first name is very unusual (I've never met another person who shares it) and they wanted to give me a traditional middle name in case I grew up and decided I didn't want to use the "weird" first name.

Man, now I'm all curious as to what your name is........ =)

Man, now I'm all curious as to what your name is........ =)
Well, here are a couple of hints:

My first name translates to "little dark one," while my middle name means, "sunrise" or "sunshine." The humor was not lost on my parents.

"Mean nothing"? According to whom? I believe my first and middle names mean a great deal, and my parents "pulled them out of thin air." I am honored to carry my parents' surnames, but I would have been equally honored to carry a surname they picked out for me.

In a way, a selected surname would mean even more, because I wouldn't just be getting it because I happened to be born to Fred Jones and Freda Smith or whatever...I would be getting it because Fred Jones and Frida Smith thought long and hard about the right name for their child. In that sense the pre-set surname customs make surnames even more meaningless, particularly for females who are expected to toss aside any possible heretitary value of their surname as soon as they become their husband's prop--er, wife.
Heh! Very funny. :rolleyes:

Perhaps this issue isn't a good one for me to discuss, since I come from the Southern US where people are more tradition-minded, and where names actually do mean something, and where your family tree can carry a bit more weight than it apprently does to many of those who have posted on here.

I was named after two Southern Generals: Nathan Bedford Forrest and Robert E. Lee. My family name, Horn, is old European, specifically Swedish. I can give you a list of every member of our family, all the way from my youngest grandchild, back about ten generations on both sides. I take it this is not very common outside the Southern US. :)

Heh! Very funny. :rolleyes:

Perhaps this issue isn't a good one for me to discuss, since I come from the Southern US where people are more tradition-minded, and where names actually do mean something, and where your family tree can carry a bit more weight than it apprently does to many of those who have posted on here.

I was named after two Southern Generals: Nathan Bedford Forrest and Robert E. Lee. My family name, Horn, is old European, specifically Swedish. I can give you a list of every member of our family, all the way from my youngest grandchild, back about ten generations on both sides. I take it this is not very common outside the Southern US. :)

I've got news for ya, it's not very common inside the Southern US. I've spent pretty much all my life here and I've met one person who can trace things back that far (and he's my boyfriend's father). Meanwhile, being named after someone doesn't necessarily give extra meaning to the name. It is what you do that gives meaning to your name to other people.

Because its been done that way for years and I dont feel like changing the system.

Well, for me, it's a tradition. Not incredibly important, of course, but I will sub-consciously expect my wife to take my name and I can't say I won't be a little disappointed if she doesn't.

That being said, last names aren't that important. I actually consider myself as much a Martin as I am a Matt, but that might be a function of me living MUCH closer to all of the people in my mom's side of the family. Like I'm part of both families, it's just that my last name is Matt whereas their names are Martin (or Pogerzelski in the case of one of them).

It's just kind of one of those things, I guess. You know, not all tradition is bad.

If I ever have kids, they take the family name, no question.. every last letter of it, tacked on to mine, like so:

______ Pepe Diego Jose Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santisma Trinidad Ruiz y Dominguez.

:p

I have my mother's surname. My mother didn't change her name after marriage because she didn't like my father's last name (nor does he) and they decided to give both I and my brother my mother's surname, too. I don't see what the big deal is either way.

I think you should choose the name that sounds better

Boy what a bunch of feminist baloney on the front page. Get off of your soap box, it's starting to fall apart.

I was named after two Southern Generals: Nathan Bedford Forrest and Robert E. Lee. My family name, Horn, is old European, specifically Swedish. I can give you a list of every member of our family, all the way from my youngest grandchild, back about ten generations on both sides. I take it this is not very common outside the Southern US. :)


Tough break being named after two rebels who fought to destroy everything our founding forefathers died to create. My names were picked because they sounded nice. Marc Thomas Hallacker. The Marc is the French spelling of Mark but my parents thought the C looked nicer. Go figure. Forrest made most of his money from the slave trade before the war and Lee hardly had any surprisingly brilliant moments in the war. Mostly he was on the defensive and did what anybody might do.

If I ever have kids, they take the family name, no question.. every last letter of it, tacked on to mine, like so:

______ Pepe Diego Jose Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno de los Remedios Cipriano de la Santisma Trinidad Ruiz y Dominguez.

:p

How the heck do you remember all that?

How the heck do you remember all that?

Consulting my Art History text works in a pinch.. :)

I have a surname that is even more difficult to pronounce in English than it is in German (won't spell it out here). If I ever get married, I'd much rather take my wife's name than vice versa.

Unless, of course, her name turns out to be worse. You never know.

I hate my surname*, so always planned that if I did ever get married, I would take the man's solely for pragmatic reasons. But I concluded that I don't want to be seen as an adjunct of my husband - not that that's how everyone sees it, but it's an interpretation anyway. So, if it happens, I'm just planning to change my surname anyway, to something unrelated to either myself or my husband.

If I don't get married, I'll change it at some point anyway. I've avoided doing so since I was 18 (when I would have first been legally able to do so) because of all the bureaucracy that would inevitably permeate such an action, but I'll bite the bullet and do it eventually.

* Mostly because I dislike the association with my arsehole father and partly because it's just a shite name.

I didn't.

I told him he didn't plan to change his name, why should I. I was still the same person.

It used to be a sign of ownership. That should be outdated.

Though I'm sure that's been covered, just adding my two cents.

And I love it when you talk dirty to me:)

Goodnight...we all know it's you who's going to be making supper:D


No-my wife made dinner- a most excellent one too. The nshe went out to a friends.
And I discovered the dishwasher was broken.

Yay!!!

I didn't.

I told him he didn't plan to change his name, why should I. I was still the same person.

It used to be a sign of ownership. That should be outdated.

Though I'm sure that's been covered, just adding my two cents.


I think its been batted back and forth several times.

My wife gladly chose to take my last name. its a great last name to-I really like it. I certainly never thought of her as property.

Anyway, my kids would be in fourth grade before they could have spelled her maiden name.

I can trace my family back through my mother's line at least six hundred years without breaking a sweat. The rest I'd have to consult with my grandmother on...she remembers the lines further than we. And yet, until the 1950s, none of those relatives had last names. Sure, it makes it EASIER to track your family through a surname, but a lack of one does not make it impossible. What's in a name? Most English surnames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#English-speaking_countries) are believed to have originated as occupations (smith, wankerson, baker etc.), personal characteristics (dumbass, brown), places or geologicial features (windsor, hill, etc.) or ancestry (clan MacDonald being shortened to just MacDonald). And it's not just the English names that originated this way. In fact, it sounds a lot like how WE used to name people...though we didn't bother with surnames, our first names were some sort of description.

Boy what a bunch of feminist baloney on the front page. Get off of your soap box, it's starting to fall apart.
Wow. Clearly you didn't actually bother to read the first page. Interesting...do you see communists under your bed too?

we didn't bother with surnames, our first names were some sort of description.
Um ... "Lusty Sinuhue?" :D

It is what you do that gives meaning to your name to other people.
I've spent most of my life living UP to the name of "Horn!" :D

Consulting my Art History text works in a pinch.. :)
Keheheheheee...when we were thinking of names for our girls, the families on both sides kept vetoing our choices. We got sick of it, and finally told them they really didn't have a choice in the matter...even if THEY thought the name was ugly, they'd grow to love it anyway because it would be part of the child who had it. Then we said, "So we've decided on a name. For a girl, we want to name her Petrolila del Carmen Rosario de la Cruz and if it's a boy, it will be Lautaro Che Fidel Silvio". They were so horrified...we kept it up for a full three weeks just so they'd accept the real names as much better than those:)

Um ... "Lusty Sinuhue?" :D
If by my naming day I'd lived up to that description, then sure...but it would've just been Lusty:)

When I got married, I kept my name and added his to the end of it. No hyphen, just a space. Two last names. His family is Cuban so the concept of having two surnames was not that unusual. I didn't do it out of any sense of obligation or tradition, though, I just liked the way it sounded.

The thing that always surprises me is that I hear more snide remarks about it from women than men. It’s just a name. I fail to see how it’s a threat to anyone.

If by my naming day I'd lived up to that description, then sure...but it would've just been Lusty:)
Heh! Man, that would have been an EARLY start, yes? :D