NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I was pleasantly surprised by this poll and post. I don't think the United States will fall anytime soon. Give it another 100-200 years, another 800 would be great, but I probably won't be around for that. The United States has faced and won against the British Empire, a Civil War, two World Wars, the Cold War, and multiple hick-ups of wars to somehow manage to keep on truckin'. As history has shown, no civilization will stay around forever. One day the US, as we know it, won't exist. I think we'll be around as a superpower (remember, we aren't the only one, there are others) and have influence throughout the world. Doubt we'll go the way of Rome, but the US will only fall from the inside out to make it weak enough for attackers. Those who think the US is going downhill next week (historically speaking) don't have any faith in the American people. I have a feeling the US will go more the way of China perhaps. Be really powerful, not so powerful, really powerful, and so on. China has been around for 3'000 years (as their written history shows) and have gone through that cycle, which they are coming up on again I would imagine.

The Iraqis as a whole were better off under Saddam then they are now.
American's as a whole were better off just being oppressed by the British government in the 1700's. We were better off a decade before the Civil War than we were during.

During the 1770's and the 1860's we participated in two terrible wars. We ended up better off each time.

In 50 or 60 years we might lose our place as the richest and most powerful country in the world.

But I doubt we'll "fall" for at least another 150 or 200 years. And even then, we'll still exist, just small and scattered throughout our ravaged continent.

I think that America's power will ebb and flow in this century. Will it always be the most powerful? Not likely, but it will remain powerful for quite sometime. I do not see America "falling" anytime in the forseeable future but then who knows the future?

i guess that good new for ME, since im an arab, but i guess our governments are too stupid to realize that, otherwise we would'v succeded in passing several resolutions in the UN.

hehehe

but i guess sooner or later our time will come again, but not in the near future i think!!!

Actually IMHO, things are will be looking down for you as Peak Oil shows up. Western nations, plus China and India, have already essentially used their natural, native oil up. They import mainly from the Middle East, and as oil becomes harder to come by, they will probably try to take it by force. Sadly the Arab states combined or divided cannot stand up to the weight and techological force of Europe, the US, China or India.

The best plan would be for the entire region to start immediately buying up any useful military technology they can, centralize it's military defense into one command, quickly bury the hatchet with Israel(really a big one. If on the side of it's region, Israel will add technology and experience,as well as nukes. If on another side, they will give that to the other power, plus a staging ground for a massive invasion), determine who the most powerful nation/union/alliance on earth is, and offer them oil in exchange for protection. Try to ensure that the ally of the Middle east takes the brunt of the casualties and of the cost. Then, when the stronger faction that you allied with wins, turn on them. They might be reduced enough in strength that you can simply destroy them. If you do not do that however, the Middle east would simply be out of the frying pan and into the fire. If victorious, the Middle east will be free from invaders for the forseeable future, and stands with the ability to highly influence the world.[/militarystrategylesson]

Not to sound mean, but I am SO against immargration, Immigratian will destroy america. The fact that terrorists can just walk over the canadian border is slightly frightning. I dont think that Akmed and Osama have the balls to do anything anytime soon, but in time to come we will fall due to immigrants and terrorism
What do you mean by immigration? You are an immigrant(unless you are pure "Native American"). I'm an immigrant, we're all immigrants. You can't have no immigration to America because that's what we thrive on. And how will it destroy America? If it weren't for immigration, we would be a little group of countries that are afraid of Indian attacks.

If the U.S. economy does completely die due to oil shortages, then the fall of the U.S.A. may be disintegration as states leave the union.
I hope the U.S. won't fall for a long time though, things are relatively comfy at the moment in comparison to other times in history.

I'm of the of the opinion that the government of the U.S. will fall somewhere between 2060 and 2080...and be replaced by an isolationist theocratic Christian dictatorship.

That government will fall somewhere between 2150 and 2170, and afterwards the current United States will split into anywhere from 5 to 10 seperate, independent nations.

These nations will not be "allies", but competitors and in some cases, enemies.

But that's just my own outlook. :)

Define Fall?

This isn't an America-bashing post, I just want to ask you guys when you think the USA's dominance over the world will end.

Not soon enough to suite the rest of the world no doubt.

As far as Im concerned though. Rather then live under any other form of govt or under any other nations rule. Id rather see the nukes fly. :gundge:

I voted in the next 10-25 yrs but it is more likely 50-100. There can be NO doubt that the US is following the path laid out by several "empires" of the past! The whole Gay issue as I have said several times has ALWAYS come up in the declining side of the civilization. Not that I am starting an arguement there or think that gays are the problem it is just a historical FACT to show where the US is at. So no I will not even respond to arguements there! Uncontrolled inflation usually shows up right about the peak and the whole oil/gas issue shows where we as a Western civilization (Canada, USA, GB, Aussies, etc...) are at. As the gas prices continue to soar out of control the price of everything else will undoubtedly follow and in some cases has already!

I'd say five to ten (sounds like a sentence, ay?). The country is already on its downward spiral and although it will kick and scream, eventually the gravity will do its work.

hmmm... Honestly, it is in my opinion that America will fall when the core values of her people, (not values defined by the Constitution but morals that were followed by the society of our Founding Fathers) changes completely.

our morals have been steadily falling... I know I didn't read all the posts, and i'm about to go back thru and do so, so don't be suprised if you see a few more posts from me tonight.

I just left the house of two of my friends here in upstate NY... we talked politics and the current ecconomic, political, and social trends. America will fall, and I fear soon, extremely soon. Politically, we're shooting ourselves in the foot with our hubris. Ecconomically, we're a mess, and will remain so for a long while. Socially, we can seem to only agree to disagree.

Here's what I see:
Our government is less concerned with the welfare of it's people, and more concerned with the welfare of our businesses. This needs to change, and soon. While people need to work, and work hard, people also need to eat, to be healthy, and to be happy.
Prices are going to rise on everything. In three days time, I've watched the price of a gallon of gas jump from $2.64 & 9/10's per gallon to $3.31 & 9/10's a gallon. In other words, if you commute daily to your job and it takes you three gallons of gas per day one way (which is outrageous, but more common than some might believe) what cost you before $7.92 one way to work now costs you $9.93... that's two bucks more per day, ten bucks more per week, 40 bucks more per month, $480.00 per year more.... people seem to think the prices will lower themselves in a few days, at most two weeks. WRONG!! Try four months, if not more, assuming that things stay relatively close to their current standings. It's predicted prices will rise to $4.00 by the end of this upcoming weekend. Already lines have started forming at gas stations, and fights have even broken out for the lesser priced gas...
People don't see a correlation between the rising cost of oil based products and daily life. This is a blinding point, one that will cost our nation dearly. With a sharp increase in the price of gas and disel, transportation of goods will have an increase in price. Which means good will have an increase in price. Follow it out, people. If it costs $250 to ship a trailer full of tee shirts to a wal mart depot, then costs another $250 to ship them from that depot to the stores themselves, they charge $5.00 a shirt, to make profit and be able to pay employees and other costs of their business. That's just for a handful of stores, and only one depot. Now increase the cost of shipping that same trailer to the depot from $250. to $350. (if disel cost $2.50 a gallon before, and costs $3.50 a gallon now, then there's a $100 increase in costs, per trailer) so now they've gotta make $200 ($100 increase to the depot, $100 increase to the stores) up, and the only way to do this is increase prices by $0.10 to $ 0.25 cents per shirt... doesn't seem like a large increase, but now work it out over all products and services offered to you at your local Wal-mart, and the weekly amount you spend there could rise by ten to twenty dollars per week, assuming prices for disel stay the same, which, as with gasoline, will not happen.
The prices of heating oil and propane will rise. This will increase your monthly energy costs dramatically.
Now tie all of these 'minor' additions to your monthly expenses together, and you'll see a huge increase in your annual payments... for anyone who only has ten or twenty dollars left at the end of the month, you'll be the first to go over your budget just to continue to live closely to what you've been living.

So, that's just taking into effect the gas situation. now lets discuss the current social trends that are sending this 'great' land of ours down the toilet head first:
Too many social programs - the government is already in debt, and isn't overly willing to pay out more money...
Too many splinter groups - gays vs. non gays, blacks vs. whites, rich vs. poor, have's vs. have not's. We're so busy arguing about just one little topic, that the big ones fall by the wayside. And that is hubris blinding us.
Loose spending - this one drives me nuts. People seem to not be able to pay their debts, but can buy new toys to play with. Be responsible for yourselves before you try and take on more responsibility.
Decipetion - insurance fraud, tax fraud, social program fraud.. it costs us more than you might think, and makes life more difficult for everyone.
Sue happy nation - what person needs 8.7 million dollars for falling on ice on a sidewalk.. sounds crazy? better check again, folks. our products and goods cost so much because we're paying for billions of dollars worth of insurance, simply because if something goes wrong, the company doesn't wanna pay for it, and the people involved want more money than any three kings would require. Greed will bring us down.


With all those things stated, I forsee the downfall of the United States Of America sooner than most are willing to admit, or realize.

With that stated, all I can say is hope, and prepare. It breaks my heart to think the nation that's been defended by my ancestors for over 200 years will fall in such a way, when so many before us have worked so hard to make this country the land that it's (well, used to be thought of) become.

Thank you for your time.

Whoa.. I must've picked the right time to post.. no one posted after me... alright, after reading each and every post, this is what I've decided...

Stephistan
I think the USA will collapse in my lifetime. But not from a stronger power. I think it will implode economically. I'd guess in the next 15-25 years. Perhaps sooner. I think America is her own worse enemy.
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it's that last line that rings true. we are our own worst enemy.

Glamorgane
Umm... yeah. They were greeting us because we had freed them from a brutal, oppressive dictator. Something they could not do on their own.

Of course they're going to greet us.
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If I recall correctly, wasn't it America that helped Saddam rise to power in Iraq, as a ploy to protect ourselves from Iran? I could be quite wrong, but I recall hearing it that way in school.


Arab League
so you think that arabs control the american superpowerhood???
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Is the pope catholic?

Lyric
ZX81 H4x0r0r
But, as polarized as we are, politically, in this country, I can see a Civil War, possibly in our lifetimes, when too many people get too pissed off about not getting their way. When the status quo becomes intolerable to too many people. And that may precipitate the fall you so obviously desire to see.
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That right there is so true it hurts.. and that's what's gonna get the ball rolling towards a collapse...

Baratstan
Stop using first person, no-one's a country.
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Thank you for stating that...

Wingarde
And East America, that doesn't change the fact that the Anti-Catastrophe units are still in Iraq. I even read it from American press.
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*sigh* I stopped believing the american press when I went to college for radio-tv broadcasting.. fair and balances doesn't exist in our press, as I see it. I could be wrong. It's happened before.

Snetchistan
What do people reckon to the possibility of America in the future sort of somehow splitting into two, roughly along republican and democrat lines? I mean, from an external viewpoint the two sides seem to be so different as to be separate countries. There are plenty of ways the gap could be widened further; more charges of electoral irregularities in the next election, more unpopular wars, accusations of an anti-christian agenda and so on. You could add in external pressures to increase the tension, oil crises and so on. Introduce some charismatic individuals on one side or both. Could anything come out of this scenario, a secession or even civil war?
__
I can see america splitting, but not only two lines... because there are too many involved in those two sides that would want more seperate groups. And I definately see a civil war... either between races (if you don't think racism exists here, you're either a fool or you've been sheltered), or between those with possessions, and those without.


Triad City
Honestly, if a nuclear bomb goes off in this country, who do you think most Americans will blame for it?
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depends on the american in question, I suppose... some might blame middle eastern states, some will blame Bin Laden, some might blame russia, china, or even North Korea... some might even blame Canada.. all in all, I'm gonna blame ourselves, because we've been stupid and have brought the animosity and hatred of many a people against us, simply trying to be #1.... hubris....

all this stems back to my original post... our economy is garabge, to say otherwise is incorrect. The numbers may look good some days, but overall, we're shot there. Also, we say we're 'standing together' and 'unified' but seriously, folks, that's B.S. and you should know it. We're unified on T.V., and that's about it....

So, it could happen any day now. It could take a century or two.. but the seeds of decay are planted, and are starting to sprout trees of rotten fruit.

With that said, it seems to me that, while most of the posters on this topic posted true to the question, there seemed to be a serious disagreement amongst posters about religion... If any muslim/arab wonders why we would be hostile towards your religion, look back at your posts... If any american wonders why they speak the way they do, look back at your own posts. The world isn't perfect, simply because man himself (herself, we're not sexist in Esmiral, tyvm!) is not perfect. People will continue to argue, disagree, rape, pillage, murder, and destroy, because it's inside of us, and will not be burned out of our souls, reguardless of your spiritual diety cleansing you. It's there. And in order for this world to move along towards the ideals of peace for everyone, an end to poverty, et cetera, we've gotta understand that one religion is not better than another, one man is not better than another, one place is not better than another.

Sadly, I fear this will be a harsh lession indeed for the U.S. of A. :(

(sorry for being kinda preechy)

Depends by what you mean by fall.

When Rome fell, the empire ceased to, exist.

When the British Empire fell, Britain still existed as a powerful nation.

I don't think the USA will fall like Rome, but will eventually lose power, probably to China.

But there will probably always be an America in some form, even if less powerful then it is today.

I agree with your sentiments, though I have my doubts about China. They are getting heavily involved in Africa, and will get their hands baddly burnt (GO CURUPTION and NEPOTISM!!), India and Russia will offsett each other and China, so that leaves the EU, which will slowly superceed the US's economic dominance in the next 10 to 15 years - mainly by absorbing Turkey, Ukraine, Georga and the little side nations.

On the Military front, well my guess is India will become the worlds dominant military force, because unlike China, it is democratic and it is a long proven fact that Soldiers generally are more committeed to democratic institutions than to Autocratic ones, plus India has greater groth potential.

Culturally The US is not competing against a nation or group of nations but against anti-american counter cultures as well as historically stronger cultures - European Secular Enlightenment, Islam, Nationalism and possibly a rebirth of socialism (not communism). But none of them have Hollywood - saddly

Depends by what you mean by fall.

When Rome fell, the empire ceased to, exist.

When the British Empire fell, Britain still existed as a powerful nation.

I don't think the USA will fall like Rome, but will eventually lose power, probably to China.

But there will probably always be an America in some form, even if less powerful then it is today.

I almost completely agree with you, but nothing would never always exists. I think in 50 years the american century will be finished

I voted in the next 10-25 yrs but it is more likely 50-100. There can be NO doubt that the US is following the path laid out by several "empires" of the past! The whole Gay issue as I have said several times has ALWAYS come up in the declining side of the civilization. Not that I am starting an arguement there or think that gays are the problem it is just a historical FACT to show where the US is at. So no I will not even respond to arguements there! Uncontrolled inflation usually shows up right about the peak and the whole oil/gas issue shows where we as a Western civilization (Canada, USA, GB, Aussies, etc...) are at. As the gas prices continue to soar out of control the price of everything else will undoubtedly follow and in some cases has already!
Why occidental it's just anglo-saxon for you?

My foreseeable future is one week ahead, so......

I would assume that the point at which China becomes a fully capitalist nation ought to engender the USA's descent from power, since the China possesses all the constituent elements to facilitate economic dominance, in an extensive and cheap workforce, reserves of natural resources, expanses of unused land, and the aspiration towards dominance. It is, to use a cliche, an inevitability, since nations procure power in eras when the international and economic situations are condusive to their intent, and the USA is nation founded upon a revolutionary principle, and with an inherent adherence to liberty. Such a premise facilitated prosperity in the twentieth century, the twenty first will belong to a federal Europe and China.

Incidentally, culturally, the USA has little to be superceded by, its culture is despised, ridiculed and lambasted, and justifiably so, since it is a parody of western culture bereft of sophistication, but rewards ostentatiousness, and "american english" is a vile parody of a elegant language, that simplifies spelling for the moronic, inserts "ghetto" terms to replace eloquence, and contravenes accepted grammatical practice. American "culture" is an oxymoron, what little can be labelled as culture is depraved, simplistic, gregarious and abhorrent, with the exception of the intellectual, artistic and musical (excluding rap, r n'b and other assorted bilge) communities, who are insightful and progressive.

Glamorgane
Umm... yeah. They were greeting us because we had freed them from a brutal, oppressive dictator. Something they could not do on their own.

Of course they're going to greet us.
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If I recall correctly, wasn't it America that helped Saddam rise to power in Iraq, as a ploy to protect ourselves from Iran? I could be quite wrong, but I recall hearing it that way in school.


And this has what to do with the Iraqi people dancing in the streets when we rolled into Baghdad? Yes, we helped prop up Saddam when he was fighting a nation that, at the time, had just held Americans hostage for a year and a half. That changes nothing about how glad the Iraqi people were to see us when we finally corrected our mistake.

My foreseeable future is one week ahead, so......

Optomistic, but best thing put forward yet actually i think :)

Oh, they'll fall, but they'll take the as many of us with them as they can...

:eek: :sniper:

I would assume that the point at which China becomes a fully capitalist nation ought to engender the USA's descent from power, since the China possesses all the constituent elements to facilitate economic dominance, in an extensive and cheap workforce, reserves of natural resources, expanses of unused land, and the aspiration towards dominance. It is, to use a cliche, an inevitability, since nations procure power in eras when the international and economic situations are condusive to their intent, and the USA is nation founded upon a revolutionary principle, and with an inherent adherence to liberty. Such a premise facilitated prosperity in the twentieth century, the twenty first will belong to a federal Europe and China.

Incidentally, culturally, the USA has little to be superceded by, its culture is despised, ridiculed and lambasted, and justifiably so, since it is a parody of western culture bereft of sophistication, but rewards ostentatiousness, and "american english" is a vile parody of a elegant language, that simplifies spelling for the moronic, inserts "ghetto" terms to replace eloquence, and contravenes accepted grammatical practice. American "culture" is an oxymoron, what little can be labelled as culture is depraved, simplistic, gregarious and abhorrent, with the exception of the intellectual, artistic and musical (excluding rap, r n'b and other assorted bilge) communities, who are insightful and progressive.

Is there anything quite so pompous as a person who thinks their definition of culture is the only valid one?

And does anyone else think it's amusing that the poster here says that all of American culture is abhorrent... except intellectually, artistically and musically? What else is there?

Poetry? I think that Whitman and Frost might argue.

Literature? How about Hemingway, Faulkner, Clemens/Twain?

Exactly what abhorrent culture are you slamming?

Is there anything quite so pompous as a person who thinks their definition of culture is the only valid one?

And does anyone else think it's amusing that the poster here says that all of American culture is abhorrent... except intellectually, artistically and musically? What else is there?

Poetry? I think that Whitman and Frost might argue.

Literature? How about Hemingway, Faulkner, Clemens/Twain?

Exactly what abhorrent culture are you slamming?

General culture, as in that adhered to by the masses. I merely feel that the average American citizen is considerably more ignorant of the world in general than the average French citizen, less aware of religion, the arts, music, and more willing to pass the hours in front of daytime television instead of reading. The same is irrefutably and depressingly true for the general populace of Britain.

And poetry? Milton, Owen, Blake, Shakespeare, Shelley, Byron etc.

Literature? Shakespeare, Dickens, Chaucer, Tolkein, Conan Doyle, Austen et al.

Both of the above are considerably longer....

i think it will take about 5 years, a superpower falls when it starts treating other nations bad... like the greek, persians, romans, british, russian
greeks treated persians badly
romans treated europeans badly
persians, well they treated everyone badly
british, well africans and indians mainly
japanese
russians treated central asians and others
americans are now treating Iraqis, Muslims and Arabs badly
so unless they change their way of treating then they will be boming downwards
1;Romans were Europeans.
2;British - Japanese?
3;You missed out Genghis Khan
4;What planet are you from?

General culture, as in that adhered to by the masses. I merely feel that the average American citizen is considerably more ignorant of the world in general than the average French citizen, less aware of religion, the arts, music, and more willing to pass the hours in front of daytime television instead of reading. The same is irrefutably and depressingly true for the general populace of Britain.

And poetry? Milton, Owen, Blake, Shakespeare, Shelley, Byron etc.

Literature? Shakespeare, Dickens, Chaucer, Tolkein, Conan Doyle, Austen et al.

Both of the above are considerably longer....

How a nation spends its time is not indicative of its level of culture. If they want to spend their time in mindlessly entertaining pursuits, that's their prerogative. As you yourself said, it's not as if other countries don't do the same. I think this is just your blind hatred of America coming through again.

I didn't say my lists were comprehensive. I didn't even try to make them comprehensive. I was simply refuting the idea that America was culturally abhorrent. Pointing out English cultural history is irrelevant. I said nothing about your cultural history. I was refuting what you had to say about MY country's.

America will fall soon. The dollar is getting weaker, petrol more expensive and China's economy is booming (though their ageing population will fuck them up big time). The euro is powerful, America is currently involved in two (or is it more now?) wars, with some evidence that it might go into another. If I remember correctly, crime is a major problem, plus the new flood will create a new financial problem. Eventually, America will start falling behind with it's military spending and slip down into merely a greater, or if it's realy bad, a middle power.

How a nation spends its time is not indicative of its level of culture. If they want to spend their time in mindlessly entertaining pursuits, that's their prerogative. As you yourself said, it's not as if other countries don't do the same. I think this is just your blind hatred of America coming through again.

I didn't say my lists were comprehensive. I didn't even try to make them comprehensive. I was simply refuting the idea that America was culturally abhorrent. Pointing out English cultural history is irrelevant. I said nothing about your cultural history. I was refuting what you had to say about MY country's.

Not to be pedantic but pertaining to American cultural and general history, you lack either. And I disagree, mind numbing pursuits do imply a lack of culture, since the accepted concept of culture is sophistication, and accordingly, both the United Kingdom and USA are bereft of culture generally.

greeks treated persians badly

I sincerely doubt it, Alexander was Thracian or Macedonian, and the Persians instigated all of the Greaco-Persian wars, generally through imperialism and avarice on the behalf of the shah. Furthermore, the Greeks were civil to the Persians whom they captured, and enacted no percieved "war crimes" upon the Persian forces.

Not to be pedantic but pertaining to American cultural and general history, you lack either. And I disagree, mind numbing pursuits do imply a lack of culture, since the accepted concept of culture is sophistication, and accordingly, both the United Kingdom and USA are bereft of culture generally.

Culture implies the ability to appreciate artistic media, not the desire to use it as entertainment. What a nation does to entertain itself is not necessarily indicative of its cultural strength.

If you define culture as the output of American artists then you are ridiculously mistaken. A great deal of art has come out of America, as you alluded to yourself in a previous post.

When you say that we have no history, I say we have just the right amount for a country only 229 years old. Indeed, I think relatively speaking we have a great deal of history for such a "short" lifespan. Pick any 230 year time frame for any country and I'll put my country's history up against any of them.

It gets even more interesting if I am allowed to use history from our colonial period as well.

The Greeks didn't treat the Persians badly. At least not under Alexander. If anything the Greeks were TOO nice to the Persians. Alexander's army wasn't particularly fond of Alexander's Persophile nature.

Not to be pedantic but pertaining to American cultural and general history, you lack either. And I disagree, mind numbing pursuits do imply a lack of culture, since the accepted concept of culture is sophistication, and accordingly, both the United Kingdom and USA are bereft of culture generally.
Sophistication equal culture? No I do not see the relationship. What is see as sophistacted today is simple in a decade. Sophistication is more closely related to fashion than culture, and fashion is vapid compared to culture.
As to the US lacking history, yes they have a shorter history than many nations in Europe, but european history is also thiers, the US is just another branch. The history of any nation cannot exist outside the history of the world, world history is what gives it context, so no country has less or more than any other. Some do have more convoluted history, but no more.

There is too much american Hubris. The dollar is only kept a float by Chinese buying dollar based assets. America itself as a country if last for a time but America itself cannot remain a superpower, its just isn't capable of doing anthing oversees, Iraq, Vietnam and probably Iran in future all show how when it comes to domination America can't take it. There's more to being a superpower then being rich and even that won't last for ever.

The end of Europe's colonial empires were as much a result of American, Russian and Chinesse activities as they were of maladministration by Whitehall, the Elysse Palace and Lisbon. When we look at America, the maladministration is there in bucketloads, and the undermining by external influences is there... the question of how long America can maintain itself in its presant form is like asking how long is a piece of string, not infinate, but aside from that, who knows.

I think its a case of sooner rather then later for America's foreign dominance but I think as a nationstate it'll be alright for a good while.

And this has what to do with the Iraqi people dancing in the streets when we rolled into Baghdad? Yes, we helped prop up Saddam when he was fighting a nation that, at the time, had just held Americans hostage for a year and a half. That changes nothing about how glad the Iraqi people were to see us when we finally corrected our mistake.

actually, I quoted that for the brutal dictator part of quote.... We set up that brutal dictator... think of it this way.. if France set up our president, and he turned into a vicious psychopath, wouldn't you be glad to see French soldiers coming to fix the mess they made?

actually, I quoted that for the brutal dictator part of quote.... We set up that brutal dictator... think of it this way.. if France set up our president, and he turned into a vicious psychopath, wouldn't you be glad to see French soldiers coming to fix the mess they made?

Whether we helped prop him up or not is irrelevant at this point. Foreign policy is never as black and white as people like to make it. It's easy to second guess, but the fact of the matter is Saddam was fighting someone who we perceived as being a bigger enemy than he was.

ANd in the end the whole reason I said anything about it at all is that someone was saying the Iraqis greeted the Americans with gunfire when that was patently false.

Fari enough, sir. I now understand your point, and according to the american press, as well as reports from soldiers that fought there, or are fighting there, most have been welcomed graciously, not with violence. However, as with anything, I'm certain that some soldiers have been welcomed with an unkind 21 gun salute, so perhaps both points are valid....

Irreguardless, at this junction, I think Bush should pull all troops worldwide home, simply to save on government spending there, because the people are gonna need that money to help out with our current ecconomic standpoint.

Well, yes and no. IF America fails in Iraq(I said If god damnit, don't bitch at me plz), then my guess is the bloody eye will be sufficient to keep america from being Imperial for a few years at least.

IF the arab states just refuse to fuel America, then the US will fall, as the Middle East controls most of the world's oil, of which America is the biggest addict.

But I'm talking about this - www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

Which will essentially kill civilization as we know and love it, and America too :p
I've read that website, lifeaftertheoilcrash.net. It's full of misinformation. For example, one of the biggest errors is that it claims that thermaldepolymerization isn't a solution because it's only 85% efficient. Bullshit. Refining oil from the ground isn't 100% efficient either, yet it supplies our energy needs today. Thermaldepolymerization can turn all of our organic waste into oil, natural gas, water, and fertilizer. The fertilizer and water will grow more crops that will later become part of the waste stream. It's like a permanent way of recycling our biomass into energy and back into biomass again.

i guess that good new for ME, since im an arab, but i guess our governments are too stupid to realize that, otherwise we would'v succeded in passing several resolutions in the UN.

hehehe

but i guess sooner or later our time will come again, but not in the near future i think!!!
If arabs as we know them now take over as the world's superpower the earth will be thrust back into the dark ages. You're too backward to rule right now. You need to embrace new ideas and discard old cultural and social models that you mindlessly cling to.

wow the Arab League Combined would rank 9th
And without oil, which is running out, it will rank nearly last. Congratulations, Arabs have taken the opportunity provided by all that oil wealth and thrown it away.

Fari enough, sir. I now understand your point, and according to the american press, as well as reports from soldiers that fought there, or are fighting there, most have been welcomed graciously, not with violence. However, as with anything, I'm certain that some soldiers have been welcomed with an unkind 21 gun salute, so perhaps both points are valid....

Irreguardless, at this junction, I think Bush should pull all troops worldwide home, simply to save on government spending there, because the people are gonna need that money to help out with our current ecconomic standpoint.

If we did that it would destroy Iraq and any chance they have for self-determination. We can't leave until the Iraqi government is stable. Once it is,you can be sure we'll be leaving. hehehe

General culture, as in that adhered to by the masses. I merely feel that the average American citizen is considerably more ignorant of the world in general than the average French citizen, less aware of religion, the arts, music, and more willing to pass the hours in front of daytime television instead of reading. The same is irrefutably and depressingly true for the general populace of Britain.

And poetry? Milton, Owen, Blake, Shakespeare, Shelley, Byron etc.

Literature? Shakespeare, Dickens, Chaucer, Tolkein, Conan Doyle, Austen et al.

Both of the above are considerably longer....

You racist bastard. We have more of a culture than you'll ever have. If you are French then you should know that you yourself came from a bunch of barbaric hordes that banded together to fight the Romans. You say that we have no history? Let's remove us from the picture for just the last 100 years. We saved your butts twice and were coerced by our alliance with you into the Vietnam War. I say we shouldn't have lended you all that money in WWI and in fact, we should have left you with the Nazis( which you loved anyway). After the war, as punishment to Germany, we should've at least given you back to them. You say we have no culture, and I've heard it tons of times before from scum like you. We do have a culture, and just because you're too racist to admit that you don't let anyone else into your country incase they "taint" your precious "French" culture. Our culture is a world one. We let every one in and their culture is infused with ours. You say we're not intelligent? Then why do we have such higher technological advancements than you? How many Frenchmen have you sent into space? We haven't added a section of the government to make up new American sounding words for every new thing that comes out. English may not be a romance language, but then again, why does it really matter that much?

Art- Do you call putting a doorframe in the middle of the room art? Because if you do, you've got a weird perception of art. The French artist that thought of this strange and frankly stupid form of art was either an anarchist or a communist. Both suck.

History- 1.Maginot Line
2. How much resistance did you put up against the Nazi invasion?
3. Who built a major seaport below sea level?
4. Which Republic are you on now? Third? Fourth?
5. Who completed the Panama canal?

How many showers do the French take a week? Just wondering.

The French have always hated the British(though it's not justified now, they helped save your butts too) so that's more understandable than why you hate America, but for some reason, in the past couple of years, we have come to despise each other.

Oh ya, you can't even win at the tour de France, against a guy who survived cancer.

T.V.- how about all those people who don't have a T.V. or even those that do that don't watch it except on weekends because they're too busy working and playing outside to watch it? You are relying on the steryotype that has been set forward in the past twenty years. You can not judge an entire culture on a current generation.

Reading- what do you consider a good read? Shakespeare? H.G. Wells? Robert Heinlen? Terry Pratchett? Tom Clancy? Stephen R. Lawhead? Samuel Griffith? Eric Flint? J.R.R. Tolkein? Do you know over half of these names? Probably not. These are some of the hundreds of authors I have found (and read most of them) just in my house.

Considerably less ignorant of the world than the average French citizen? In parts of this great nation, this may be true. But how do you know that the general American citizen is ignorantof world events? Have you gone around and asked, or are you just assuming from stereotypes?

One last thing- thanks for the Statue of Liberty, the Louisiana pucrchase, and French bread.