NationStates Jolt Archive

that is so very zen of you.

personally, i'd die before i sold my guitar. i DO need it to survive. i'd go insane without it.

maybe death is somewhat dramatic.....but i do believe that i'd pick my guitar over rent and just about anything else in the world.

an imaginary scenario: i'm crossing a busy street and somebody bumps into me and knocks the guitar of my back, falling over in the process and breaking
their leg. a truck is coming. do i save the guitar or the person?

sorry man, the guitar comes first.

so in the situation where i was completely broke and forced to part with my guitar.....out of my dead hands maybe...

why?

it gives ne comfort like no woman possibly can; we orgasm simultaneously. it actually listens like no other possibly can. when i am depressed, it relieves everything; when i am hungry it reaps me the necessary few dollars to get me through.

life without a guitar is not worth living. not to me, anyways.

so it may be with some and their televisions, their game systems and anything else.

why bother living if it's just going to suck?

Thank you. My point exactly. And for me...without my mom, my dog, and my computer...i'd have offed myself already. Life would not be worth living if I didn't have them.

Gas prices rose by about € 0.08 average in Germany, if you need a comparison.

Get rid of the stuff I don't need, if I need to, before I complain that I can't afford things. Work my ass off to both meet the, now reduced, price of living and an account to save up for that stuff again.

let's say you sell everything you own, work your ass off and still can't pay the rent...then what are you going to do? you're going to wonder what the fuck you wasted all your time working for.

it happens. talk to some homeless people. talk to the germans after world war one.

they don't have the supply?

the pumps are still working here.

run out sooner in what respect? i thought we had a good twenty-five to thirty years left.

The pipelines are working on a limited basis. The refineries won't be up and running at full capacity for weeks.

If you put on a gas price cap, there will be lines as people rush to the stations to get the gas. You want to see the gas lines wrapping itself around the block?

let's say you sell everything you own, work your ass off and still can't pay the rent...then what are you going to do? you're going to wonder what the fuck you wasted all your time working for.

it happens. talk to some homeless people. talk to the germans after world war one.

It would seem I'm still living above my means.

Or I just have a crappy job and need to a) work overtime if I'm not already or b) try and find a better one/advancement in that job.

I think the fact that I'd still be eating would keep me from wondering why I'm working so hard. The fact that I'm still fucking ALIVE.

Being in a post-war economy/country where your country was completely reordered and damn near destroyed is pretty different from what we're in currently.

they don't have the supply?

the pumps are still working here.

run out sooner in what respect? i thought we had a good twenty-five to thirty years left.

It's not oil that's the problem... we've got plenty of that. The problem is that with 20-25% (someone can check that figure if they want, I'm admittedly only quoting what I've seen elsewhere on this board) of our refineries offline and pipelines out of New Orleans shut down, we're not turning that oil into gasoline fast enough to meet supply.

What I find interesting here is that some of the posters on here are forgetting that we have just suffered our worst Natural Disaster in our history.

Oil Refineries are now offline and won't be up and running for a few weeks. Pipelines were down but are now pumping on a limited basis (don't know what the limited basis is). Oil Platforms are gone thus extraction of the oil is gone. Not to mention our 2nd busiest port is underwater thus preventing oil from even entering the country.

Demand was already high prior to this disaster and now that our capacity to produce gas is nearly gone, demand is even higher thus our gas prices have gone up even more!

What I find interesting here is that some of the posters on here are forgetting that we have just suffered our worst Natural Disaster in our history.

To clarify what you're saying, it's not even just that. The worst natural disaster in U.S. history, on its own, would not be enough to cause this. No matter how much people talk about how it could have been worse, we were immensely unfortunate that the hurricane happened to hit New Orleans specifically. That's what really caused this mess.

I agree the oil companies are just trying to get richer while it is getting harder to pay for the fucking gas. The gas price in Massachusetts were I live is $3.84!! It is around $60 to fill up the goddamn gas tank.

To clarify what you're saying, it's not even just that. The worst natural disaster in U.S. history, on its own, would not be enough to cause this. No matter how much people talk about how it could have been worse, we were immensely unfortunate that the hurricane happened to hit New Orleans specifically. That's what really caused this mess.

Good point. If New Orleans wasn't flooded, things might've been better and gas prices wouldn't be rising the way they are.

The pipelines are working on a limited basis. The refineries won't be up and running at full capacity for weeks.

i somehow doubt that conservation is the driving force. we had an ice storm up here 7 or 8 years ago that knocked the water out for several weeks in some communities. shop owners started selling water for 10-15 bucks a bottle, which people had to pay in rural areas (where the damage was the worst) because the roads were not driveable. i don't know if you've ever lived through a serious ice storm or not, but people were ice-skating through the streets. there was a layer of ice on everything three-four inches thick in some places.

they weren't charging insane prices for water because they thought they were going to run out. they were charging insane prices for water because they knew people would have no other choice but to buy it from them at insane prices.

so, i think that lyric has a good point. perhaps supply has been knocked slightly but it's not enough that there is any serious concern about running out. bush's stated logic (which is always prone to error, but whatever) was that he was tapping into the reserves not because there were serious supply problems but because he already has a 35% approval rating and soaring gas prices aren't going to help that any at all....

If you put on a gas price cap, there will be lines as people rush to the stations to get the gas. You want to see the gas lines wrapping itself around the block?

i don't care, i drive a bicycle. i'm 24 and haven't even bothered getting a license, nor do i ever plan on it.

to be honest, i'd love to see it. it might make some people think long and hard about the way they live their lives.

besides....the price cap would be permanent. that effect would be short-term and rather pointless.

Or I just have a crappy job and need to a) work overtime if I'm not already or b) try and find a better one/advancement in that job.


your boss won't give you overtime and you have a grade 12 education, which is i believe more education than the (statistical) average american has.


I think the fact that I'd still be eating would keep me from wondering why I'm working so hard. The fact that I'm still fucking ALIVE.

who says you have enough for groceries? the price of gas just doubled and is threatening to triple.


Being in a post-war economy/country where your country was completely reordered and damn near destroyed is pretty different from what we're in currently.

if your society (and mine) doesn't find another source of fuel, there is going to be very little difference between what it looks like and what a country looks like post-war and in the process of "reordering".

It's not oil that's the problem... we've got plenty of that. The problem is that with 20-25% (someone can check that figure if they want, I'm admittedly only quoting what I've seen elsewhere on this board) of our refineries offline and pipelines out of New Orleans shut down, we're not turning that oil into gasoline fast enough to meet supply.

we're not?

have you been turned away?

i somehow doubt that conservation is the driving force. we had an ice storm up here 7 or 8 years ago that knocked the water out for several weeks in some communities. shop owners started selling water for 10-15 bucks a bottle, which people had to pay in rural areas (where the damage was the worst) because the roads were not driveable. i don't know if you've ever lived through a serious ice storm or not, but people were ice-skating through the streets. there was a layer of ice on everything three-four inches thick in some places.

I've been through many an Ice Storms. Some of them were pretty bad. One knocking out the power for several hours. Luckily for us, our pipes didn't freeze. As for the Price of water being sold at $10-15 a bottle, I have to ask for proof of that because I haven't seen that at the stores that I've been into after big ice storms. Wheree are you located?

they weren't charging insane prices for water because they thought they were going to run out. they were charging insane prices for water because they knew people would have no other choice but to buy it from them at insane prices.

And if they were actually cut off, demand>supply=higher prices. If your not going to get water anytime soon, as you are implying with this post, I'm not surprised.

so, i think that lyric has a good point. perhaps supply has been knocked slightly but it's not enough that there is any serious concern about running out.

Tell that to Georgia.

bush's stated logic (which is always prone to error, but whatever) was that he was tapping into the reserves not because there were serious supply problems but because he already has a 35% approval rating and soaring gas prices aren't going to help that any at all....

And its not just high gas prices driving that approval rating and from my understanding, a more reliable sorce puts it at about 40%

i don't care, i drive a bicycle. i'm 24 and haven't even bothered getting a license, nor do i ever plan on it.

That's fine. I have no problems with that.

to be honest, i'd love to see it. it might make some people think long and hard about the way they live their lives.

It has happened before in 1979 and I believe in 1973 as well.

besides....the price cap would be permanent. that effect would be short-term and rather pointless.

Actually, it'll have long term consequences.

I agree the oil companies are just trying to get richer while it is getting harder to pay for the fucking gas. The gas price in Massachusetts were I live is $3.84!! It is around $60 to fill up the goddamn gas tank.

that's considerably more than a day's worth of work for a lot of people.

your boss won't give you overtime and you have a grade 12 education, which is i believe more education than the (statistical) average american has.

If I have a grade 12 education and think that's enough to keep everything I'd want from life, then I'm a simplistic fool.

Of course, if I'm going through school at the time it's a different story.



who says you have enough for groceries? the price of gas just doubled and is threatening to triple.

The prices are what they are. You budget for what they ARE, not what they were. Buying generic and in bulk saves quite a bit of money, depending where you go, and you should never discount being close to where you shop/work.


if your society (and mine) doesn't find another source of fuel, there is going to be very little difference between what it looks like and what a country looks like post-war and in the process of "reordering".

This I agree with, to a degree.

we're not?

have you been turned away?

Not personally, no, but Texas hasn't really been hit by shortages. Gas in the Austin area is still under $3.00. From what I'm hearing, it's mainly a problem for the East Coast. Georgia reportedly has very little left.

I've got a question to those in America. Is there really intense criticism of how Bush is handling the situation? The claim was made on a German commercial channel news program, so I have my doubts.

making 70% profit on a barrel of oil is despicable.

I've got a question to those in America. Is there really intense criticism of how Bush is handling the situation? The claim was made on a German commercial channel news program, so I have my doubts.

I haven't heard much criticism and nothing has popped up in the brief Washington Post blurps I get in my email box.

Of course, I've been watching the Weather Channel most of the time and only now getting back into the political world again.

I've got a question to those in America. Is there really intense criticism of how Bush is handling the situation? The claim was made on a German commercial channel news program, so I have my doubts.

Haven't heard much of that, no. The news networks at this point are devoting all their time to covering the actual disaster, though, so it's possible that the criticism just isn't getting any airtime.

All Bush has really done at this point is release some oil from the reserves (which won't make any difference, but it'll reassure the roughly 90% of Americans who don't know that) and ask for calm. Not much to criticize.

And we move the arguement back to our originally scheduled program, Supply and demand.

It isn't Cheney's or his buddies fault Layarteb. It goes back to Supply and Demand. Very high demand to little supply = high prices.

Even supply and demand has its limits. This is beyond supply & demand.

If the gas stations had waited 'till they'd sold the gas they had or new shipments arrived I'd have not been as upset. They couldn't wait 'till the new shipments arrived in a few days. As far as I'm concerned the gas companies are no better than the people looting liqour stores down there in New Orleans. Anyone that ups there percentage of profits due to national emergencies or war is despicable.
That's why you can't have a totally free market place. You have to have some control over people who view others' hardships as nothing more than opportunity for profit.

Even supply and demand has its limits. This is beyond supply & demand.

Actually it isn't. With refinery capacity cut and pipelines not at full capacity, it really does become a supply and demand issue.

Gas stations are already running out of gas. A gas station in Dalpni, AL is out of gas and it won't be long till other areas begin to run out of gas. GA is literally on fumes. Since Demand is so high right now, it is little wonder that gas prices are going up.

Transportation capacity to transport the refined gas from refineries is also down due to the damage to the oil refineries as well as major arteries being underwater. Not to mention a major city that had the 2nd busies port in the country.

Haven't heard much of that, no. The news networks at this point are devoting all their time to covering the actual disaster, though, so it's possible that the criticism just isn't getting any airtime.

All Bush has really done at this point is release some oil from the reserves (which won't make any difference, but it'll reassure the roughly 90% of Americans who don't know that) and ask for calm. Not much to criticize.Excellent. One more reason for me to avoid watching commercial channel news programs.

I've been through many an Ice Storms. Some of them were pretty bad. One knocking out the power for several hours. Luckily for us, our pipes didn't freeze. As for the Price of water being sold at $10-15 a bottle, I have to ask for proof of that because I haven't seen that at the stores that I've been into after big ice storms. Wheree are you located?


if the worst thing that happened was power out for a few hours, you've never been through a big ice storm.

i tried searching google but didn't find anything on water gauging. i'm talking about the eastern ontario/southern quebec ice storm of 1998 which knocked out power where i lived in nepean (a suburb of ottawa) for three or four days. it is widely acknowledged as the worst natural disaster in canadian history.


And if they were actually cut off, demand>supply=higher prices. If your not going to get water anytime soon, as you are implying with this post, I'm not surprised.

there was no threat of running out. the store owners were just assholes. many of them were driven from their communities in the months after the fact.


Tell that to Georgia.


i'd like to see a source for this myself.


And its not just high gas prices driving that approval rating and from my understanding, a more reliable sorce puts it at about 40%


i think it's the war that's driving his ratings down, but if gas prices stay ridiculous they're certainly not going back up.

the last source i saw (which was reuters, i believe) said 36%.


It has happened before in 1979 and I believe in 1973 as well.


i'd say to get used to it.


Actually, it'll have long term consequences.

like what?

i somehow doubt that conservation is the driving force. we had an ice storm up here 7 or 8 years ago that knocked the water out for several weeks in some communities. shop owners started selling water for 10-15 bucks a bottle, which people had to pay in rural areas (where the damage was the worst) because the roads were not driveable. i don't know if you've ever lived through a serious ice storm or not, but people were ice-skating through the streets. there was a layer of ice on everything three-four inches thick in some places.

they weren't charging insane prices for water because they thought they were going to run out. they were charging insane prices for water because they knew people would have no other choice but to buy it from them at insane prices.

so, i think that lyric has a good point. perhaps supply has been knocked slightly but it's not enough that there is any serious concern about running out. bush's stated logic (which is always prone to error, but whatever) was that he was tapping into the reserves not because there were serious supply problems but because he already has a 35% approval rating and soaring gas prices aren't going to help that any at all....



i don't care, i drive a bicycle. i'm 24 and haven't even bothered getting a license, nor do i ever plan on it.

to be honest, i'd love to see it. it might make some people think long and hard about the way they live their lives.

besides....the price cap would be permanent. that effect would be short-term and rather pointless.
That is precisely my theory for the high gas prices right now. Yeah there was some damage...but not this much. someone's profiteering, and that is pissing me off!

It's one thing to recoup losses. It's another to gouge and charge insane prices, because you got people in a position where they have no choice, and you are thus getting rich on the backs of the poor and working folks, and nothing...I say nothing...gets me more pissed off than rich guys taking advantage of poor guys, especially in a situation like this.

Transportation capacity to transport the refined gas from refineries is also down due to the damage to the oil refineries as well as major arteries being underwater. Not to mention a major city that had the 2nd busies port in the country.I thought I'd heard that it was THE busiest... I could be wrong though...

i'd like to see a source for this myself.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68623
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=1&url_article_id=5847&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

No indication of how widespread the problem really is, but this information fits with what I've read in posts from NSers in Georgia.

If the gas stations had waited 'till they'd sold the gas they had or new shipments arrived I'd have not been as upset. They couldn't wait 'till the new shipments arrived in a few days. As far as I'm concerned the gas companies are no better than the people looting liqour stores down there in New Orleans. Anyone that ups there percentage of profits due to national emergencies or war is despicable.
That's why you can't have a totally free market place. You have to have some control over people who view others' hardships as nothing more than opportunity for profit.

Bingo. 'Nuff said.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68623
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=1&url_article_id=5847&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

No indication of how widespread the problem really is, but this information fits with what I've read in posts from NSers in Georgia.

I dunno. My brother lives in Fortson, Georgia, and has not mentioned this to my mom. My brother and I don't talk at all, and haven't for nearly seven years now, so of course he wouldn't have said anything to ME about it...but surely, he'd have mentioned it to my mom.

If I have a grade 12 education and think that's enough to keep everything I'd want from life, then I'm a simplistic fool.

you just called the majority of your country simplistic fools.

ignoring the cheap shot on my behalf, although it was so wide open i'm still giggling, does that mean that the majority of your population is not fit to live above the poverty line?

or does it mean that everybody in your country has the resources, abilities and opportunities to attend and complete a program at an institution of higher learning and those that don't are simply fools?

The prices are what they are. You budget for what they ARE, not what they were.

but if your budget was so tight you were barely squeaking through before the price gauging started, how are you to deal with a budget now?

people speak of supply and demand as though it is a simple concept, ignoring the inevitable greed that comes inherently with capitalism and the free market. yet they can't understand the simple concept of having x dollars and needing y dollars, y>x, to survive.

this is why banks and credit card companies survive as well as they do; it is virtually impossible to survive on a minimum wage income without living with several roomates and owning nothing, and even then it's not particularly easy.

our system is very dissapointing given our great wealth.

Buying generic and in bulk saves quite a bit of money, depending where you go, and you should never discount being close to where you shop/work.

"buy in bulk" is the ultimate catch 22.

up here, you can't buy in bulk unless you have a "secret membership" at the "price club" or some other store, which you can't get unless you have a high paying job, which prevents all the people that need to buy bulk from buying bulk.

but, all of the money you were saving buying in bulk just got sent to exxon, anyways, so you're no better off. what do you do?

"i need to go to work because i need to pay for my car, and i need to have a car to get me to work."

I dunno. My brother lives in Fortson, Georgia, and has not mentioned this to my mom. My brother and I don't talk at all, and haven't for nearly seven years now, so of course he wouldn't have said anything to ME about it...but surely, he'd have mentioned it to my mom.

Hmm. That's outside the Atlanta metro area, right? It may well be that the reports of the entire state having run out are exaggerated, and it's just the Atlanta area.

Has he mentioned gas prices approaching $6? Because that's been verified, and it's certainly consistent with a severe shortage.

you just called the majority of your country simplistic fools.

ignoring the cheap shot on my behalf, although it was so wide open i'm still giggling, does that mean that the majority of your population is not fit to live above the poverty line?

or does it mean that everybody in your country has the resources, abilities and opportunities to attend and complete a program at an institution of higher learning and those that don't are simply fools?


If you think you can have a high paying job and enjoy the luxuries of life with just a high school education, you're a fool. Hell, it's hard with Bachelor Degrees in some circles.

Now, if you're working while going through school for a better job, then you're exluded.

I'd say most people could work to get in or could get some sort of scholarship... I know the college I'm going to offers a scholarship for being below 5', among many other things. :eek:



but if your budget was so tight you were barely squeaking through before the price gauging started, how are you to deal with a budget now?

people speak of supply and demand as though it is a simple concept, ignoring the inevitable greed that comes inherently with capitalism and the free market. yet they can't understand the simple concept of having x dollars and needing y dollars, y>x, to survive.

this is why banks and credit card companies survive as well as they do; it is virtually impossible to survive on a minimum wage income without living with several roomates and owning nothing, and even then it's not particularly easy.

If your budget is that tight and you're down to the basics, you need another job. Or a closer job, if you're spending that much on gas. Save your pennies... they could be your car or new house.

Personally, I plan on credit cards being a last resort... me having one would be me maxing it on stuff I'd never use. >.<




"buy in bulk" is the ultimate catch 22.

up here, you can't buy in bulk unless you have a "secret membership" at the "price club" or some other store, which you can't get unless you have a high paying job, which prevents all the people that need to buy bulk from buying bulk.

but, all of the money you were saving buying in bulk just got sent to exxon, anyways, so you're no better off. what do you do?

"i need to go to work because i need to pay for my car, and i need to have a car to get me to work."

ah, well, here, we have a store that's basically devoted to bulk buying. I swear, things there are for if the world explodes. It's a bit cheaper then the other store, which doesn't provide bulk buying.

Again, if EVERY inch of your savings are going to exxon, you need a closer/better job.

I realise getting a new job isn't easy. Or a first one, for that matter. But, if it's that close, something needs to be done.

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=68623


ok, this is from the first one:

Two pipelines that supply the Southeast with gasoline resumed partial operations on Thursday, allowing some gas stations in the Metro Atlanta area to refuel.

A panic caused by false rumors that the governor would shut down all of the state's gas stations or ration gas starting Wednesday afternoon caused a rush of people to the pumps.

By Thursday, dozens of gas stations had been forced to shut down because they had run out of gas.

-------

so it seems to be that what happened was a false rumour that they were running out of gas started spreading, which tricked so many people into buying gas that they really DID run out of gas.....and that now they're back in order again when the temporary problem (caused by increased demand and not decreased supply) subsided.



http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=1&url_article_id=5847&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2



same thing.

sounds like you guys have been "had".

It's because New Orleans supplies a fifth of the refined gas, mostly to the East coast. The two major pipelines are shut down so no more gas is arriving in Pennsylvania, or down here in NC for that matter. So the price will skyrocket until the NO refineries get back online.

Stock up now, and consider youself lucky. There's literally no gas left in some towns, and Georgia is projected to completely run out pretty soon.

Georgia has had a long standing reputation for having the cheapest gas in the nation, though, and the area that I lived in (Northern Suburban Atlanta) had the cheapest in the entire state thanks to gas station competition up there. This shock is only temporary. It's not like we are going to live on like this for years. In the meantime, people need to reassess their budget and driving habits. Remember, its not like the gas stations aren't getting more in, just smaller quantities of it. Stores in the immediate shock were depleted much, much faster than normal, meaning that there is going to be much less demand for gas over the following week. It's a problem, but not one that is going to shut down the city so much as sting the consumer for one or two fill-ups. Atlanta is still thousands of times more fortunate than New Orleans, after all.

I've got a question to those in America. Is there really intense criticism of how Bush is handling the situation? The claim was made on a German commercial channel news program, so I have my doubts.

Not in the least, and rightly so. Bush doesn't have the power to turn back natural disasters, after all, nor is he responsible for the handling of the relief efforts.

sounds like you guys have been "had".

I'd disagree. The information wasn't bad, just old. And yes, the pipelines are running at partial capacity again, but they'll have to be at full before we can expect to see prices drop.

I'd say most people could work to get in or could get some sort of scholarship... I know the college I'm going to offers a scholarship for being below 5', among many other things. :eek:


because the colleges/universities in america are large enough to handle educating close to half f it's population?

that's, what, 350 million people?



If your budget is that tight and you're down to the basics, you need another job.

ok, i know you're only 17. but, you must realize that this is not always a possibility.

what do you do for the months or years it takes to find a better job?

Or a closer job, if you're spending that much on gas.

....or the months or years it takes to find an apartment, roomates, and the cash to move closer to work?


Save your pennies... they could be your car or new house.

i believe that the scenario rules out having pennies to save.

say, what if you're in debt (as most people are) on top of it?

Has he mentioned gas prices approaching $6? Because that's been verified, and it's certainly consistent with a severe shortage.

it's also consistent with gas companies (or regional store owners) capitalizing (note my choice of words) on (perhaps manufactured) mass panic.

Ah....at last, and finally, SOMEONE gets my point...and understands what my rant is REALLY all about...and what is REALLY pissing me off. Someone gets it. Someone actually GETS IT!! :D Someone finally understands what is behind all my anger!


Move countries to one with a lower cost of living...

Ok-yesterday morning, the price of a gallon of gas at the cheapest place in town hit $3.09. Its gone up .60 cents per gallon in three days. On the same delivery of gas.

And now the laws of Supply and Demand are in full swing.

This should get even more interesting.

because the colleges/universities in america are large enough to handle educating close to half f it's population?

that's, what, 350 million people?


If all 350 million went at once, probably not.

If people realised that a high school education doesn't cut it anymore, then there would be.



ok, i know you're only 17. but, you must realize that this is not always a possibility.

what do you do for the months or years it takes to find a better job?



....or the months or years it takes to find an apartment, roomates, and the cash to move closer to work?

I know it's not easy. It doesn't have to be the best job ever... there are many jobs people, including me, wouldn't take because 'they're too dirty'. Or their pride doesn't let them.

You obviously don't quit your job while you have no prospects for another; that's just idiocy.

For an apartment, you don't have to look for one of your own, then find a roommate, and all that... I'm willing to bet there's hundreds of people looking for a roommate at any one moment.





i believe that the scenario rules out having pennies to save.

say, what if you're in debt (as most people are) on top of it?

Unless you are paying with every bit of change, you'll probably have loose pennies around. I meant it literally, not meaning as a small bit of money.

If you're in debt, something is going wrong. You're using too much credit with money you don't, and probably won't, have. Not keeping to your budget too well, then.

ok, i know you're only 17. but, you must realize that this is not always a possibility.

what do you do for the months or years it takes to find a better job?

....or the months or years it takes to find an apartment, roomates, and the cash to move closer to work?


Actually, for being 17, she's remarkably wise.

Yes it is always a possiblity. There are always jobs out there--you may not WANT to take them, but they're there--at least for some income.

Here's the problem: You get people that somehow think they're "above" specific types of jobs, and they will not pursue them.

You will not always have the job you went to school to learn, not anything remotely in the same field. That is reality.

Life goes on, regardless the level of fun one is having--it's hardwired into all of us. If someone don't feel like taking a job at a McDonald's, then that's a person ruling it out and limiting themselves. It's their fault, and their responsiblity. Not a company's or a government's.

Personal responsibility seems to have died in the US.

Hmm. That's outside the Atlanta metro area, right? It may well be that the reports of the entire state having run out are exaggerated, and it's just the Atlanta area.

Has he mentioned gas prices approaching $6? Because that's been verified, and it's certainly consistent with a severe shortage.

Nope. My mom woulda mentioned it to me if he'd said anything like six dollar gas to her. Anyways, Fortson is about 100 miles south/southwest of Atlanta, as I understand it, it's on the Alabama border, right near the part of the western border of Georgia that isn't straight...with Alabama, where, the line goes from having been straight, to being a little crooked...and then straight again south of that point...look on a U.S. map, you'll see what I'm talking about. Anyways, it's my understanding that that is where Fortson is.

I wouldn't even know the name of the town, except that I've seen the return-address on some of the stuff my brother has sent my mom, since we live together and get our mail from the same box. My brother and I are that embittered and embattled with one another.

The last time we spoke was at my father's funeral (unless you count me answering the phone at home, realizing who it is...and immediately passing the phone to my mom without a word...but with a LOOK she well understands) and the next time I plan to speak to him is at my mother's funeral...and then, never again.

The sad part of it is I have a niece and a nephew who are virtually strangers to me. My brother does not want me to be a part of their lives, and, since they are minors, and he is their father, what am I to do? I can't even send them birthday cards or gifts, because he would make sure they did not get them...he'd send 'em back, or worse, pocket the money for himself and tell the kids I hadn't sent anything.

He has them convinced I some sort of evil Grendel that would pillage the village and eat the children, I guess. Isn't brainwashing lovely?

anyways, that is way off-topic, but I wanted you to understand how serious this breach of communication is so that you will understand just how very second-hand my information about the situation in Georgia actually is. If you've some first-hand info that conflicts my second-hand info, I would place more faith in the first-hand info, and that was my point in impressing upon you just how little REAL info I actually have.

But, if there were $6 a gallon gas and fuel shortages and outages in Fortson, Georgia, I'm sure my brother woulda mentioned it to my mom, and my mom woulda mentioned it to me.

Actually, for being 17, she's remarkably wise.

Yes it is always a possiblity. There are always jobs out there--you may not WANT to take them, but they're there--at least for some income.

Here's the problem: You get people that somehow think they're "above" specific types of jobs, and they will not pursue them.

You will not always have the job you went to school to learn, not anything remotely in the same field. That is reality.

Life goes on, regardless the level of fun one is having--it's hardwired into all of us. If someone don't feel like taking a job at a McDonald's, then that's a person ruling it out and limiting themselves. It's their fault, and their responsiblity. Not a company's or a government's.

Personal responsibility seems to have died in the US.
Maybe they don't feel like it, because they know damn well they will work their fingers to the bone for not enough money to live on...did you ever consider THAT possibility as to WHY someone would rule out McDonald's? I know I have ruled it out, and for that very reason.

Yeah, all's I need to do is have it on my resume that I worked for McDonald's for a year, and any future employer will see me as a loser and a sucker, and willing to work for far less than I'm worth!

errr most employers would take someone who has 1 year at macca's over someone who doesnt have a work history...

correction... ALL employers...

Maybe they don't feel like it, because they know damn well they will work their fingers to the bone for not enough money to live on...did you ever consider THAT possibility as to WHY someone would rule out McDonald's? I know I have ruled it out, and for that very reason.

Yeah, all's I need to do is have it on my resume that I worked for McDonald's for a year, and any future employer will see me as a loser and a sucker, and willing to work for far less than I'm worth!

Your choice. I've done the fast food thing to survive. It worked quite nicely--I'm still here. Did I like the work? No. Did I have to work hard? Yes--more than I really wanted to. Did it kill my chances for a better job? Well, I'm in information security today, so....again, no.

These are YOUR assumptions, Lyric--not necessarily fact in the real world.

Were I an employer, and saw that someone went from computer support to McDonald's back to something computer related (what I went through), that shows that the person wanted to work, as opposed to getting picky on what they would or would not do. It shows ambition and drive.

Nope. My mom woulda mentioned it to me if he'd said anything like six dollar gas to her. Anyways, Fortson is about 100 miles south/southwest of Atlanta, as I understand it, it's on the Alabama border, right near the part of the western border of Georgia that isn't straight...with Alabama, where, the line goes from having been straight, to being a little crooked...and then straight again south of that point...look on a U.S. map, you'll see what I'm talking about. Anyways, it's my understanding that that is where Fortson is.

I wouldn't even know the name of the town, except that I've seen the return-address on some of the stuff my brother has sent my mom, since we live together and get our mail from the same box. My brother and I are that embittered and embattled with one another.

The last time we spoke was at my father's funeral (unless you count me answering the phone at home, realizing who it is...and immediately passing the phone to my mom without a word...but with a LOOK she well understands) and the next time I plan to speak to him is at my mother's funeral...and then, never again.

The sad part of it is I have a niece and a nephew who are virtually strangers to me. My brother does not want me to be a part of their lives, and, since they are minors, and he is their father, what am I to do? I can't even send them birthday cards or gifts, because he would make sure they did not get them...he'd send 'em back, or worse, pocket the money for himself and tell the kids I hadn't sent anything.

He has them convinced I some sort of evil Grendel that would pillage the village and eat the children, I guess. Isn't brainwashing lovely?

anyways, that is way off-topic, but I wanted you to understand how serious this breach of communication is so that you will understand just how very second-hand my information about the situation in Georgia actually is. If you've some first-hand info that conflicts my second-hand info, I would place more faith in the first-hand info, and that was my point in impressing upon you just how little REAL info I actually have.

But, if there were $6 a gallon gas and fuel shortages and outages in Fortson, Georgia, I'm sure my brother woulda mentioned it to my mom, and my mom woulda mentioned it to me.

Alright, thanks for the additional information, and my condolences for your family situation. I'd probably be pretty angry myself if things like this had happened to me, but if you get anything from this thread, I hope it's the knowledge that not everyone out there is as cruel and uncaring as you think, and that unfortunate circumstances like the current oil spike aren't always due to malice and greed.

errr most employers would take someone who has 1 year at macca's over someone who doesnt have a work history...

correction... ALL employers...

Not saying they wouldn't. but it would forever be a scar on your resume, and would immediately let every employer know that you are a loser and a sucker, and willing to work for far less than you are worth, and it will negatively impact your career for the rest of your life (or at least as long as you have to list on your resume that you worked at a shithole like Mickey Dees.)

i'm not willing to kill myself for the rest of my life by attaching a "sucker" label to my forehead, thank you very much.

Your choice. I've done the fast food thing to survive. It worked quite nicely--I'm still here. Did I like the work? No. Did I have to work hard? Yes--more than I really wanted to. Did it kill my chances for a better job? Well, I'm in information security today, so....again, no.

These are YOUR assumptions, Lyric--not necessarily fact in the real world.

Were I an employer, and saw that someone went from computer support to McDonald's back to something computer related (what I went through), that shows that the person wanted to work, as opposed to getting picky on what they would or would not do. It shows ambition and drive.

Maybe. But how do you get that FIRST job after Mickey Dees? An employer looks at that and says, what, didn't anyone think you were WORTRH anything?? Why should I think you're worht anything? Back to the shitheap with you, Mickey-Dee boy...

It's different if you're high-school age when you worked there. But, if you're 34, like me...well, Micket Dees on your resume says you are desperate, you're a sucker, you'll come for lower wages, you're a loser, and obviously, nobody thought you were worth a REAL job, which is why you ended up at McD's...so why should THEY now think you are worth a REAL job, and why should they pay you what you're worth, when you are so obviously willing to work for less?

Not saying they wouldn't. but it would forever be a scar on your resume, and would immediately let every employer know that you are a loser and a sucker, and willing to work for far less than you are worth, and it will negatively impact your career for the rest of your life (or at least as long as you have to list on your resume that you worked at a shithole like Mickey Dees.)

i'm not willing to kill myself for the rest of my life by attaching a "sucker" label to my forehead, thank you very much.

Being unemployed is MUCH worse than being underemployed--for any length of time. Ask any HR person.

Maybe. But how do you get that FIRST job after Mickey Dees? An employer looks at that and says, what, didn't anyone think you were WORTRH anything?? Why should I think you're worht anything? Back to the shitheap with you, Mickey-Dee boy...


What did you do before your unemployment stint? If you already had experience in your field of choice, having a McDonald's section of your resume shouldn't affect it. Especially after they interview you, where you can explain why you were laid off or whatever.


It's different if you're high-school age when you worked there. But, if you're 34, like me...well, Micket Dees on your resume says you are desperate, you're a sucker, you'll come for lower wages, you're a loser, and obviously, nobody thought you were worth a REAL job, which is why you ended up at McD's...so why should THEY now think you are worth a REAL job, and why should they pay you what you're worth, when you are so obviously willing to work for less?

And yet I got hired again, doing what I did before...even after being out of the field for over a year. Your unsubstantiated opinions are being disproven by my actual, factual experience.

You are assuming everything you're spouting--you have no facts to back this up, do you? If you do, I'd like to see you post them, and put your money where your mouth is--because I've seen otherwise first-hand.

Alright, thanks for the additional information, and my condolences for your family situation. I'd probably be pretty angry myself if things like this had happened to me, but if you get anything from this thread, I hope it's the knowledge that not everyone out there is as cruel and uncaring as you think, and that unfortunate circumstances like the current oil spike aren't always due to malice and greed.

See, that is just the problem. I really DO believe everyone is cruel and uncaring, and even someone who claims to be "your best friend" would sell you for a wooden nickel, if that was all he could get for you.

And I really DO believe that malice and greed is what drives almost everybody.

I've experienced too much of a shitstorm to believe otherwise. I'd like to think better of people, really I would...but my experience in life has left me no choice but to think the way I do of people...and of society in general. If you had been shit on, and beaten down as hard as I have, you'd feel the same way.

How'd you like to KNOW you have great skills...and not get a job, and KNOW (without them ever SAYING it, of course) that the only reason you didn't get a job is because you are a transsexual, and therefore everyone thinks you are a "freak" and employers who think your resume looks great on paper...recoil when you get to the interview, and they might as well broadcast their thought (I don't want to hire a FREAK like that!!) And have no legal recourse? How would you like it?

How else do you explain that I get better than average resopnse on resumes I send out, yet still don't get a job? It is simply because physically attractive people have an unfair advantage in the workplace...and "freaks" like me have a decided disadvantage. It isn't fair and it isn't right, and I've been building up a reservoir of anger over this treatment for a hell of a long time.

What did you do before your unemployment stint? If you already had experience in your field of choice, having a McDonald's section of your resume shouldn't affect it. Especially after they interview you, where you can explain why you were laid off or whatever.



And yet I got hired again, doing what I did before...even after being out of the field for over a year. Your unsubstantiated opinions are being disproven by my actual, factual experience.

You are assuming everything you're spouting--you have no facts to back this up, do you? If you do, I'd like to see you post them, and put your money where your mouth is--because I've seen otherwise first-hand.

Read my last post. I ALREADY go in with a "freak" label attached to my forehead. I'm already at a great disadvatage. The last thing I need is to add a sucker and loser label. and let them know I'm willing to work at a shithole like McD's, because then they will know that, since obviously no one thinks I'm worth a REAL job...not even me...then why should THEY give me a real job...."back to the shit-heap with you, freak!!" Oh, they won't SAY it, but their facial expression and body language shouts it.

Eh, gas is $3 here, but I'm complaining too much. I filled up a week and a half ago and only now I'm on half a tank so I can easily hold out another week to see if things go down, and if they don't, we still don't have much in the way of complaining rights when you consider so many other countries have already been higher than what we pay.
Besides, I just laugh at the idiots who just had to have that Hummer or other gas-guzzler that they honestly didn't need xp Especially since I got this really dirty look from a lady last time I was the gas station. She had a Ford Expedition and she was pumping gas into it when I got there, still pumping gas into it when I was leaving and was royally pissed at me XD

Read my last post. I ALREADY go in with a "freak" label attached to my forehead. I'm already at a great disadvatage. The last thing I need is to add a sucker and loser label. and let them know I'm willing to work at a shithole like McD's, because then they will know that, since obviously no one thinks I'm worth a REAL job...not even me...then why should THEY give me a real job...."back to the shit-heap with you, freak!!" Oh, they won't SAY it, but their facial expression and body language shouts it.

That's all you, Lyric. You're the one hitting the interview with the negative attitude.

If you get the interview, that means the McDonald's thing didn't matter to them--you're talking about two different parts of the hiring process.

Stop with the doom and gloom, and you might get somewhere.

What's your field of expertise? What did you do before you quit in protest? (Remember, that was also a choice that you, alone, made)

I'm fed up with it all. If Bush really cared about the rest of the nation he would put a cap on the gas prices. But now even now the oil companies will come out on top, now they get rid of the EPA laws and now they can outsource in US shipping.

Ha! You Americans with your 'capitalisim' and your 'Free and un-corrupt government'.

Im sorry, did I say that?

Anyway, In the UK and Europe we all get by with $6 a gallon petrol. Find a way to deal with it!

Oil and petrol prices ARE too high. Its because of OVER-consumption. I sympathise with people who have to live in the country and drive long distances.

Hopefully you never voted for Bush/Cheney!

My dad said he pays £100 ($180) a week to drive him, me, and my brother to our school, and then to his work.

He deals with it, you just have to cut back you're spending. or work overtime. Unles you work at wal Mart.

Read my last post. I ALREADY go in with a "freak" label attached to my forehead. I'm already at a great disadvatage. The last thing I need is to add a sucker and loser label. and let them know I'm willing to work at a shithole like McD's, because then they will know that, since obviously no one thinks I'm worth a REAL job...not even me...then why should THEY give me a real job...."back to the shit-heap with you, freak!!" Oh, they won't SAY it, but their facial expression and body language shouts it.

There's a flaw in that. A HUGE one.

Two people quit their jobs in protest.

One doesn't get another job. They don't want some shitty job clogging up their resume. So they just run around trying to get a 'real' job.

One gets a job they HATE. for min. wage, long hours, few benefits.

Now, both get an interview for the same job. Equally qualified, same amount of time laid off and everything.

Guess who's going to get it?

Yes, that's right... the person who put aside their pride to get a job, proving that they care about where their next paycheck comes from.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??
Since the hurricane hit... prices in Arkansas went up 60 cents over night, and is now up 90 cents. However, it's not price gouging--it's lack of common sense/knowledge on your part.

Tons of oil facilities throughout the Gulf of Mexico had to be evacced. And now New Orleans, a major American oil refining city, is not going to be habitable for as long as 16 weeks. Tons of facilities will not be able to be used at all, and that's what is costing the oil companies so much. Just be glad your prices aren't over 3 bucks a gallon yet.

Since the hurricane hit... prices in Arkansas went up 60 cents over night, and is now up 90 cents. However, it's not price gouging--it's lack of common sense/knowledge on your part.

Tons of oil facilities throughout the Gulf of Mexico had to be evacced. And now New Orleans, a major American oil refining city, is not going to be habitable for as long as 16 weeks. Tons of facilities will not be able to be used at all, and that's what is costing the oil companies so much. Just be glad your prices aren't over 3 bucks a gallon yet.

Like hell they aren't!! $3.39 today, thank you.

Like hell they aren't!! $3.39 today, thank you.

And when the refineries get up and running and the pipelines get back to full production, prices will drop since supply will be there again.

I just wish the dems would stop being idiots and let the Alaskan people have whta they want, artic drilling in ANWAR, that'll drop the prices considerably.

And when the refineries get up and running and the pipelines get back to full production, prices will drop since supply will be there again.

I just wish the dems would stop being idiots and let the Alaskan people have whta they want, artic drilling in ANWAR, that'll drop the prices considerably.
Has anyone ever honestly seen the price of gas "drop considerably?" Ever?

If you're in debt, something is going wrong. You're using too much credit with money you don't, and probably won't, have. Not keeping to your budget too well, then.

i think i'm done with this.

but you need to realize that pretty much everybody is in debt to someone - whether it's student loans (my case) or mortgage payments to the bank (ask your parents).

even the government is heavily in debt. that's the way the real world works in a capitalist society - you borrow more money than you can make in order to survive and pay off the interest as you go. maybe, one day, when you're 55-60 you'll be out of debt; otherwise, the debt dissapears when you die as it comes out of whatever inheritence your kids get.

the other solution is to live on nothing until your thirty-five to forty and can buy a house with straight cash, but even that presupposes that you're well-off enough to put away 15-30 grand a year.

you *will* borrow money.

Has anyone ever honestly seen the price of gas "drop considerably?" Ever?

I've seen the price of oil drop considerably. Again, once you introduce supply, prices will drop. Its simple case of economics.

If ANWAR is opened up to what the Alaskans themselves are clammering for, you'll be introducing supply to the market. Granted not right away, but the meer mention of it will drop the price of oil and therefor, gas.

Actually, for being 17, she's remarkably wise.

Yes it is always a possiblity. There are always jobs out there--you may not WANT to take them, but they're there--at least for some income.

Here's the problem: You get people that somehow think they're "above" specific types of jobs, and they will not pursue them.

You will not always have the job you went to school to learn, not anything remotely in the same field. That is reality.

Life goes on, regardless the level of fun one is having--it's hardwired into all of us. If someone don't feel like taking a job at a McDonald's, then that's a person ruling it out and limiting themselves. It's their fault, and their responsiblity. Not a company's or a government's.

Personal responsibility seems to have died in the US.

who are you debating? it's not me.

6.05*40 = 242. 242*4=968.

i don't know what the tax rate is down there but they take 13% of my cheque.

968*.13 = 125.84. 968-125.84=842.16.

so, we can say that the average minimum wage income in the united states is about 850 dollars/month, if they're getting 40 hours/week, which is a lot in a fast food restaurant. more reasonable is 30-35 which cuts it dramatically. this is not the workers fault, it is a policy of the restaurants who rarely staff fulltime because it's expensive to provide benefits to fulltime workers....and these places are generally not impressed with people working more than one job as it fucks with scheduling (i've seen many a person just canned in their three month probation period for finding a second job, even if it's part-time).

you can understand that after rent, hydro, heating and food there's not a lot left and that's presuming that you're only looking after yourself. boost energy costs and you're _fucked_.

it's not a question of not working shitty jobs. it's a question of whether shitty jobs are adequate to support even the most spartan of lifestyles, and they barely are as it is. the vast masses of minimum wage drone workers are the ones, as usual, that are going to suffer from the impending energy crisis, hurricane or not.

it's not as simple as telling them to get a better job. there's an unemployment rate as it is and it's not because people are lazy.

I've seen the price of oil drop considerably. Again, once you introduce supply, prices will drop. Its simple case of economics.

The point was when...

I've seen the price of oil drop considerably. Again, once you introduce supply, prices will drop. Its simple case of economics.

If ANWAR is opened up to what the Alaskans themselves are clammering for, you'll be introducing supply to the market. Granted not right away, but the meer mention of it will drop the price of oil and therefor, gas.

....for a couple of years.

then there's a big mess up there and you're back to the same problem.

it's a quick fix. they should take what they were going to spend on anwar and funnel it into r&d for a better fuel source.

....for a couple of years.

then there's a big mess up there and you're back to the same problem.

it's a quick fix. they should take what they were going to spend on anwar and funnel it into r&d for a better fuel source.

If you bothered to read excerpts of the Energy bill that just recently passed, you will see that money is being pumped into R&D for better fuel sources.

If you bothered to read excerpts of the Energy bill that just recently passed, you will see that money is being pumped into R&D for better fuel sources.

so we should drill for more oil, then, if we're expending enough resources to get to a point where we don't need oil any more?

r&d for a better fuel source is THE most important thing on the planet right now. it needs all the funding it can get...

i understand that throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it, but it does make it easier to solve it.

so we should drill for more oil, then, if we're expending enough resources to get to a point where we don't need oil any more?

r&d for a better fuel source is THE most important thing on the planet right now. it needs all the funding it can get...

i understand that throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it, but it does make it easier to solve it.

All I'm saying is that if you want the price of oil, and in effect gas, to drop, then you have to introduce more supply. There is oil in this country that we aren't pumping out for various reasons and if we tap into that then the price of oil and gas will drop because more supply would be introduced into the market.

All I'm saying is that if you want the price of oil, and in effect gas, to drop, then you have to introduce more supply. There is oil in this country that we aren't pumping out for various reasons and if we tap into that then the price of oil and gas will drop because more supply would be introduced into the market.

Or how about decreasing demand...by finding alternate energy sources, and outlawing SUV's? I mean, in your world, everything is supply and demand, never is ANY company ever GOUGING, or asnything like that, oh, no, the corporations are all ethical, moral saints that can do no wrong...but, since you want to insist on pure supply-and-demand, which, in this case, I think is horseshit that doesn't apply (the only thing I think applies here is GREED) but...even so, for the sake of argument, it seems that lowering demand should have the same effect as raising supply, no?

Or how about decreasing demand...by finding alternate energy sources, and outlawing SUV's?

I'm all in favor of banning SUVs but then that is taking away the people's right of choice. I have a person in one of my classes whose SUV is sitting in the drive way and is driving her smaller car that gets better gas miliage. Good luck in getting it banned. I'll support it but I just don't see it being feasible. As for finding alternate energy sources, that is what the energy bill is going to do. It won't be overnight but it will start.

I mean, in your world, everything is supply and demand, never is ANY company ever GOUGING, or asnything like that, oh, no, the corporations are all ethical, moral saints that can do no wrong...but, since you want to insist on pure supply-and-demand, which, in this case, I think is horseshit that doesn't apply (the only thing I think applies here is GREED) but...even so, for the sake of argument, it seems that lowering demand should have the same effect as raising supply, no?

In my world? Oh brother. My world is the same as your world. However, unlike you, I don't live in a fantasy world where everything should be going my way. Guess what? Nothing hardly ever goes my way. Not a damn thing. Because of my computer breaking then crashing, we nearly went into debt. Thanks to insurance was I able to fix my computer and for a meer $20 was able to get my computer up and running. If my computer wasn't important, I wouldn't have bothered with it but I needed it for school and thus had to fork out the money to fix it.

You maybe unemployed, sorry that you are, however, my family isn't as financially sound as you may think. Military pay sucks and we have to live paycheck to paycheck half the time. We were nearly bankrupt when the friggin government shut down and was able to scrap up enough to keep food on our table.

Also, stop placing words in my mouth. Most of what is going on is supply and demand. There really is no way to deny that. The energy department has only received 5,000 calls of allegations of price gouging but even they don't know how many of that is true. Of course, that number was at last check. You can call the Energy Department's Price Gouging hotline if you like. The number is somewhere but I don't have it handy.

As for lowering demand, the best way to do that is to stop driving. Less cars on the road = less demand for gas = more supply of gas = lower prices. If people will stop driving then yes, prices will also drop because there will be less demand for gas. That is why if prices continue as they are, prices will start to drop because people will find other means to travel by so I'll agree with you on that point.

Has anyone ever honestly seen the price of gas "drop considerably?" Ever?

Mid to late eighties in the US. In Wisconsin, we had gas around 1.22. It got down to 65 cents. It has dropped in the past.

so, we can say that the average minimum wage income in the united states is about 850 dollars/month, if they're getting 40 hours/week, which is a lot in a fast food restaurant. more reasonable is 30-35 which cuts it dramatically. this is not the workers fault, it is a policy of the restaurants who rarely staff fulltime because it's expensive to provide benefits to fulltime workers....and these places are generally not impressed with people working more than one job as it fucks with scheduling (i've seen many a person just canned in their three month probation period for finding a second job, even if it's part-time).

you can understand that after rent, hydro, heating and food there's not a lot left and that's presuming that you're only looking after yourself. boost energy costs and you're _fucked_.

it's not a question of not working shitty jobs. it's a question of whether shitty jobs are adequate to support even the most spartan of lifestyles, and they barely are as it is. the vast masses of minimum wage drone workers are the ones, as usual, that are going to suffer from the impending energy crisis, hurricane or not.

it's not as simple as telling them to get a better job. there's an unemployment rate as it is and it's not because people are lazy.


Not all of it, no. But there are those that do think jobs are beneath them, or will not alter their lifestyles to fit their incomes--that rent part? Get a roommate.

I've lived on minimum wage--it's quite possible. And there is still room to move up in the world, in income terms.

You'll never be able to convince me otherwise, especially with numbers, because I've DONE it. Did I have a lot of fun while I was doing it? No. That's why it's called working toward something. Work generally isn't fun.

Or how about decreasing demand...by finding alternate energy sources, and outlawing SUV's? I mean, in your world, everything is supply and demand, never is ANY company ever GOUGING, or asnything like that, oh, no, the corporations are all ethical, moral saints that can do no wrong...but, since you want to insist on pure supply-and-demand, which, in this case, I think is horseshit that doesn't apply (the only thing I think applies here is GREED) but...even so, for the sake of argument, it seems that lowering demand should have the same effect as raising supply, no?

Lowering demand should decrease price, yes. Good luck getting people to stop using gas or cars, though.

Lowering demand should decrease price, yes. Good luck getting people to stop using gas or cars, though.
One does not need to stop using their cars outright, just decrease use. Only drive when necessary.

News flash:

The Refinery Revitialization Act is expected to Pass Congress. This will give us new refineries for the first time in 25 years.

The Refinery Revitialization Act is expected to Pass Congress. This will give us new refineries for the first time in 25 years.

Thank God. Put those on old military bases first, and then wherever they are needed. This will create thousands of high paying jobs ($20 per hour in many cases!) and will be great for our economy.

i think i'm done with this.

but you need to realize that pretty much everybody is in debt to someone - whether it's student loans (my case) or mortgage payments to the bank (ask your parents).

even the government is heavily in debt. that's the way the real world works in a capitalist society - you borrow more money than you can make in order to survive and pay off the interest as you go. maybe, one day, when you're 55-60 you'll be out of debt; otherwise, the debt dissapears when you die as it comes out of whatever inheritence your kids get.

the other solution is to live on nothing until your thirty-five to forty and can buy a house with straight cash, but even that presupposes that you're well-off enough to put away 15-30 grand a year.

you *will* borrow money.


I should have been more clear... I'm talking about debt you keep building from buying stuff you can't afford. Things you're buying that you don't need.

I don't believe in borrowing more money then I make. That's stupid and will only end in me playing twice what it was worth, if it was even worth the original price.

Another solution would be to start putting away money early and NOT have to go for the best-so-many-rooms-I-can't-use-them house you see.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

I agree ^^^^
Fuck those guys.

One does not need to stop using their cars outright, just decrease use. Only drive when necessary.

I guess I'll keep going down that road....good luck determining when "necessary" is.

Here's the problem, you're going to run into those that "need" a big mac, and won't be disuaded otherwise.

It's a nice theory, but unless you can really hit them for extended periods of time, it's not going to do much.