NationStates Jolt Archive

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

You're not paying for the damage the hurricane caused, you're paying for the limited amount of gasoline that's available. It's not pleasent, but there isn't as much gas available as before and so America has to use less. The government could ration it, but it's much less of a headache and you're almost certainly better off with a price rise instead. And yeah, the oil companies make money. Of course maybe you own part of the oil company yourself through your retirement fund or something, so it might not be all bad for you.

Personally I think america would be better off if it didn't depend so much on oil. Maybe this price rise will convince people to be more economical.

And some good news is that some oil will be released from the strategic oil reserve to mitigate shortages, which will help keep the price from going even higher, in the short term.

UPDATE: Aparently eight refineries have shut down due to storm damage. That's puts a big dint in the amount of gasoline being produced. There just isn't enough gas to go around at the old prices.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

It's because New Orleans supplies a fifth of the refined gas, mostly to the East coast. The two major pipelines are shut down so no more gas is arriving in Pennsylvania, or down here in NC for that matter. So the price will skyrocket until the NO refineries get back online.

Stock up now, and consider youself lucky. There's literally no gas left in some towns, and Georgia is projected to completely run out pretty soon.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

The price has gone up not because of oil companies gouging you but because of a natural disaster. You can hardly blame the oil companies for hurricane Katrina. In fact, if it weren't for the oil companies, you would be paying even more for oil because you would literally have to go to an oil field and pump the stuff out of the ground yourself. Don't be so hasty to bite the hand that feeds you.

There's literally no gas left in some towns, and Georgia is projected to completely run out pretty soon.

Well damn.....looks like I moved from Ga. just in time.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??
CAlm down, this is due to limted recources, and the inability to pump oil out of the gulf of Mexico.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

Why don't you try informing yourself before blaming the oil companies?

I heard today that 49% of our oil platforms in the Gulf are no longer in postition to extract oil. That, coupled with the eight refinery shutdowns, has reduced domestic oil production by 92%. :eek:

Add in the fact that a large majority of our imported oil comes in through New Orleans (the nations second largest port, after NYC), and the fact that we simply don't have the docking space on the east coast to reroute it all, that means less oil coming in, and it has to go farther to get here.

The last hurricane of significant strength to hit the area was Andrew, and guess what? Gas went up nearly 35 cents in one day...in Wisconsin.

The energy companies knew to evacuate all their personnel from the area when Katrina was still over Florida. That means that all of the refinery workers are safe, instead of dead or in need of rescue. As soon as the refinerys reopen, they'll have a full workforce, instead of an exhausted and sickly one with reduced shifts because workers died in the hurricane.

I don't think very highly of energy companies, but in this case they did absolutely everything they could to make the supply and price situation something other than completely catastrophic.

As for the high prices...GET OVER IT!!! Buy a more fuel-efficient car...ride a bike...or start taking the bus.

In the long term, to reduce the shock when you see gas prices jump, you need to reduce the amount of gas you use. But that means that either you have to travel less or you have to pressure your government to build public transport or you have to live closer to where you want to go. But that means that people have to live closer to each other, which means a complete reversal of the housing policy in America, which means a complete change in the American suburbia culture. Wow. That's a lot to change. Start doing it now. Do yourself some good and do Earth some good.

Buy a more fuel-efficient car...ride a bike...or start taking the bus.

Those aren't the only options.

The only one that would "work" for me would be the bus route - and those stop running after I'm out of class. College's too far from my apartment for an effective bike ride. Friends? Ha! No help there. Basically... I'm screwed. Looks like I'll just *have* to pull the long bike ride to class but at the expense of a good amount of accumulated work hours. Hours which I need, of course, to fix my broken bike. Well, shit.

:p

Guess I'll have to um.. Bite the bullet.

I heard that damage to oil pipelines was less then expected, and oil refineries were in good shape. I think the Saudis will be able to cover us during this time, but we should look towards Canada and help them increase their own oil production. We should also look to build refineries other then the gulf coast. Personally, I think the supply is more then enough, but the refinery capacity is limited. However, I do see prices declining because of declining demand and on the fact that China cannot afford these prices (causing declining demand in their country). There will be immediate repairs done to the oil rigs and refineries (happening as we speak).

All in all, it could of been worse.... there could of been far more damage done, and we should all be grateful that is not the case.

You're not paying for the damage the hurricane caused, you're paying for the limited amount of gasoline that's available. It's not pleasent, but there isn't as much gas available as before and so America has to use less. The government could ration it, but it's much less of a headache and you're almost certainly better off with a price rise instead. And yeah, the oil companies make money. Of course maybe you own part of the oil company yourself through your retirement fund or something, so it might not be all bad for you.

Personally I think america would be better off if it didn't depend so much on oil. Maybe this price rise will convince people to be more economical.

And some good news is that some oil will be released from the strategic oil reserve to mitigate shortages, which will help keep the price from going even higher, in the short term.

UPDATE: Aparently eight refineries have shut down due to storm damage. That's puts a big dint in the amount of gasoline being produced. There just isn't enough gas to go around at the old prices.


What retirement fund? I have all I can do to fund my current living expenses, let alone retirement!! Current living eats up every last penny, I HAVE nothing to save for retirement. Thanks, Exxon-Mobil!!

East coast isn't the only place getting gouged.

Gas is now 3 bucks a gallon where I am ... and I'm in Houston (refinery capital of the US). Not pleasant.

I'm just glad I very recently bought a car that gets 32-34 mpg.

It's because New Orleans supplies a fifth of the refined gas, mostly to the East coast. The two major pipelines are shut down so no more gas is arriving in Pennsylvania, or down here in NC for that matter. So the price will skyrocket until the NO refineries get back online.

Stock up now, and consider youself lucky. There's literally no gas left in some towns, and Georgia is projected to completely run out pretty soon.

Well, me, personally...I got gas the day before it shot up. I paid $2.53. And the little amount that I drive means I will go a week and a half or longer, most likely, before I need more gas. But it burns me up no end that gas comapnies are gouging us like this, because my mom works two jobs, and has for years, because she feels a need to maintain a certain lifestyle she enjoyed when my dad was alive. So be it. That's her choice. BUT, she drives over 200 miles a day as a result. 70 miles on a rural newspaper-delivery route, and then 70 miles one-way each day to her full-time job (where she has been for SIXTEEN YEARS - so don't suggest she get somthing closer, she ain't leaving, and I don't blame her. At her advanced age, she isn't likely to get another job, anyway)

So they are gouging the crap out of my mom.
THAT'S MY FUCKING INHERITANCE THEY ARE MESSING WITH, DAMN THEM!! :D

No, in all seriousness, it just pisses me off, because I know the gas companies are taking advantage of us...and advantage of a lax, or even friendly, Administration, to gouge the shit out of the American public when the government is disinclined to do anything to stop them. EVERY single time there is anything...anything...they find a way to spin it into higher and higher and higher prices! Our fucking wages don't go up this fast!!

Airlines and cabs charge a "fuel surcharge" when gas goes up. Workers cannot charge their employers a "fuel surcharge" when the cost of their commute damn near doubles in less than a year! That's real horseshit! Why the hell should we have to keep cutting our budgets down to the bare bone, and how much of that budget-cutting can our economy withstand before we go into recession, and make matters even fucking worse?

Can you imagine a Depression caused by skyrocketing fuel prices...and how the hell does ANYONE pull themselves off the economic shit heap in such circumstances, once they find themselves there?

Do you think Bush and his oil buddies give a flying fuck, though? They have never known poverty, they have never known having to cut their budget or "do without." so why should they give a shit if Joe and Jane sixpack have to?

Bush is a lame duck now, anyway, and doesn't have to stand for re-election. I can guarantee you, were this an election year...and Bush had to stand for re-election, the gas companies who so love Bush would've sucked up and took it. but now, since they don't have to, they are jamming it to the American public, and without the benefit of K-Y Jelly.

The price has gone up not because of oil companies gouging you but because of a natural disaster. You can hardly blame the oil companies for hurricane Katrina. In fact, if it weren't for the oil companies, you would be paying even more for oil because you would literally have to go to an oil field and pump the stuff out of the ground yourself. Don't be so hasty to bite the hand that feeds you.

Bite the hand that feeds me?!?!? My ass!! More like bite the hand that is stealing the food out of my mouth!!

If I didn't live at home with my mom, I'd literally be in a position to have to choose whether to eat, or to fill up the car so I could go to work!

I, for one, am glad at the skyrocketing prices. It'll jar Americans out of their complacency and have them clamoring for better fuel sources. It's long overdue.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

demand is higher than supply

tell all your SUV-driving pals to buy regular passenger cars. Nobody needs to be driving a Hummer, Tahoe or Expedition (etc.) in a f*cking CITY.

Antre_Travarious']CAlm down, this is due to limted recources, and the inability to pump oil out of the gulf of Mexico.

Horse-shit. They always have an excuse. You tell me just WHEN the fucking price will EVER go down??

When they get their full capacity back, do you really expect me to believe they will drop it back to the $2.53 I paid the other day? I doubt the shit outta that!

Horse-shit. They always have an excuse. You tell me just WHEN the fucking price will EVER go down??

When they get their full capacity back, do you really expect me to believe they will drop it back to the $2.53 I paid the other day? I doubt the shit outta that!

Relax.

two American axioms:

1) The stock market will continue to rise, over time

2) When there are gas-price spikes, said prices will drop back down to normalcy at some point.

The Fundemental principle of Capitalism is the Invisible Hand guiding prices. The "Invisible Hand" is Supply and Demand. Since the Demand in North America is a lot higher than the Supply the natural thing to happen is for prices to go up. This is basic economics.

Why don't you try informing yourself before blaming the oil companies?

I heard today that 49% of our oil platforms in the Gulf are no longer in postition to extract oil. That, coupled with the eight refinery shutdowns, has reduced domestic oil production by 92%. :eek:

Add in the fact that a large majority of our imported oil comes in through New Orleans (the nations second largest port, after NYC), and the fact that we simply don't have the docking space on the east coast to reroute it all, that means less oil coming in, and it has to go farther to get here.

The last hurricane of significant strength to hit the area was Andrew, and guess what? Gas went up nearly 35 cents in one day...in Wisconsin.

The energy companies knew to evacuate all their personnel from the area when Katrina was still over Florida. That means that all of the refinery workers are safe, instead of dead or in need of rescue. As soon as the refinerys reopen, they'll have a full workforce, instead of an exhausted and sickly one with reduced shifts because workers died in the hurricane.

I don't think very highly of energy companies, but in this case they did absolutely everything they could to make the supply and price situation something other than completely catastrophic.

As for the high prices...GET OVER IT!!! Buy a more fuel-efficient car...ride a bike...or start taking the bus.


You got all the answers, don't you?!?!

My car already gets 38 MPG. You can't get more efficient than that without buying a hybrid. And what am I supposed to use to buy it, my good looks...I'M UN-EM-FUCKING-PLOYED!!!

Ride a bike? Great answer! I live in a rural area, at the end of a dirt road, in the middle of nowheresville! Yeah, just where did you think a bike was gonna get me? And as for a bus, forget it! There ain't any such thing as public transportation where I live. You won't see a bus in this entire county, except maybe the Greyhound that goes along Interstate 80, and wouldn't stop in this pissant county for anything!

No, out where I live, you are literally FUCKED if you don't have a car...and the oil companies got me and all my neighbors over a fucking barrel, WE HAVE NO CHOICE!!

why don't you learn the particulars of someone's situation, before you go spouting off your brilliant solutions? not everyone lives in NYC, Cjhicago, L.A. or somewhere where public transport is actually an option!

Like to see you try to ride 70 miles one way, every day, on a bike, to go to work, like my mom would have to!

You DO realize that Katrina shut down about a full quarter of the oil production in the U.S., right?

Horse-shit. They always have an excuse. You tell me just WHEN the fucking price will EVER go down??Oh, I guess not. So they also bribed every media outlet (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=katrina+u.s.+oil+production) as well to say that? An impressive conspiracy, well done I must say.

tell all your SUV-driving pals to buy regular passenger cars. Nobody needs to be driving a Hummer, Tahoe or Expedition (etc.) in a f*cking CITY.I actually agree with this. Other than driving up prices for the rest of us, the damnable things are impossible to see over, and it doesn't matter if you're driving an SUV or a normal car if you get in a fight with a semi - semi wins, every time.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??


Of course it is price gouging. Two years ago when the price of oil went under $40 a barrel people were asking why the price at the pumps did not go down right away. The answer the oil companies gave was that it took 6 weeks for the price on the market to be reflected at the pumps. Nice to see that those blood sucking vermin still keep that philosophy when the prices go up on the market :headbang:

In the long term, to reduce the shock when you see gas prices jump, you need to reduce the amount of gas you use. But that means that either you have to travel less or you have to pressure your government to build public transport or you have to live closer to where you want to go. But that means that people have to live closer to each other, which means a complete reversal of the housing policy in America, which means a complete change in the American suburbia culture. Wow. That's a lot to change. Start doing it now. Do yourself some good and do Earth some good.

you know what I say to that....FUCK THE EARTH! I WANT MY GAS PRICES BACK IN THE AREA OF REASONABLE!!

Goddam, the rich people all bitch when they get their money taxed from them...but I'm supposed to smile and enjoy it when the oil companies PAUPERIZE me?!!? WTF is that all about? I seem to see a conflict here.

Taxes bad. High oil prices good. WTF??

demand is higher than supply

tell all your SUV-driving pals to buy regular passenger cars. Nobody needs to be driving a Hummer, Tahoe or Expedition (etc.) in a f*cking CITY.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

Get people to stop using so much, and the demand will go down. Prices will follow.

Some may also say that it's about time we were paying what our cousins in Europe have been paying for decades now.

I'm seriously considering a Jetta TDI. Yeah, deisel's more expenisve, but damn, 45 MPG on the highway, and still have full power? I'll take it. The Honda Civic Hybrid is looking decent as well.

I, for one, am glad at the skyrocketing prices. It'll jar Americans out of their complacency and have them clamoring for better fuel sources. It's long overdue.

I'll refrain from saying what I would like at this junbcture, since it most definitely would be considered flaming. You can figure it out.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??


What I dont understand is the price has skyrocketed on gas that is already at the gas station. They already have the gas there for several days at least and in some cases are charging .50 more per gallon in just a few days.

Last night, gas was $2.99 per gal at the place I usually get it, where its usually the cheapest around. I dont want to know what the price is today.

This is starting a new trend- Americans are now having to CHARGE gasoline on their credit cards. For many-the cost of commuting to and from work has doubled inside of the past few months.
Between this and home heating costs this winter, we are going to have large amounts of people BORROWING to pay for fuel as interest rates go up. This is going to be bad for us in the long run.

demand is higher than supply

tell all your SUV-driving pals to buy regular passenger cars. Nobody needs to be driving a Hummer, Tahoe or Expedition (etc.) in a f*cking CITY.

couldn't agree with you more, I hate fucking SUV's. BUT, out in the rural area, in the mountains...that I live, you need a four-wheel drive vehicle in the wintertime. I live near the bottom of the mountain, so I manage to get by with my front-wheel-drive Toyota Tercel. But, my neighbors at the top of the mountain wouldn't get home at all without their four-wheel drive.

But they actually NEED that. I agree with you that you don't NEED a fucking SUV if you live in a city.

Relax.

two American axioms:

1) The stock market will continue to rise, over time

2) When there are gas-price spikes, said prices will drop back down to normalcy at some point.

You expect me to believe that?

1. The stock market has been virtually FLAT for five and a half years, since Bush took office. the dow is close to what it was on Inauguration Day, 2001.

2. You expect me to believe that? Gas prices haven't been NORMAL in nearly two years! For me, "normal" gas prices are around, say, $1.30 a gallon. I won't hold my breath waiting to see THAT price ever again!

I'll refrain from saying what I would like at this junbcture, since it most definitely would be considered flaming. You can figure it out.

If you think I LIKE paying these outrageous gas prices you're crazy. I'm just as annoyed at it in the short term as you are.

I'm trying to look at things in the long term, though. We've had the technology for alternate fuel sources for a long time, we just haven't had the impetus to make them viable in the marketplace. Maybe the absolute raping we're getting at the pumps will provide it.

Of course it is price gouging. Two years ago when the price of oil went under $40 a barrel people were asking why the price at the pumps did not go down right away. The answer the oil companies gave was that it took 6 weeks for the price on the market to be reflected at the pumps. Nice to see that those blood sucking vermin still keep that philosophy when the prices go up on the market :headbang:

THANK YOU!!! I'm glad SOMEONE has a memory here! I wasn't about to bring it up, because if I did, it would have been dismissed as more ranting and bitching and moaning. But I remember that, too. We were told it took six weeks for the supply price to get reflected at the pump, when the price should've come DOWN....it don't even take SIX FUXKING SECONDS for the supply price to be reflected at the pump when the price goes up, does it??

Shit, I remember one day, about 2 weeks ago, when I was driving to the store for a couple of items I'd run short on at the house. I passed the gas station, and gas was $2.44 a gallon. On my way back from the store, not even ten minutes later, I passed the same gas station, and the price was $2.57 a gallon!

Horse-shit. They always have an excuse. You tell me just WHEN the fucking price will EVER go down??

When they get their full capacity back, do you really expect me to believe they will drop it back to the $2.53 I paid the other day? I doubt the shit outta that!


Its scary that this situation will have some people happy to ONLY pay $2.53 a gallon again. Last year, people were pretty pissed off when gas topped $1.50 per gallon. is this just a ruse to get everyone used to paying over $2.00 per gallon?

There is always some bullshit excuse. When there is a shortage, prices go up, when there is a glut prices go up. When the demand is high and when it is low, prices go up. When there isa problem, prices increase immediately, but when the problem has passed, prices linger.

I have no idea what the solution is. I dont have a big SUV and my wife and I have both managed to make our jobs such that we work 95% of the time from home. I dont put 10 miles a week on my car. I'm not sure what more I can do to have done my part. I'm using a very small percentage of fuel compared to what the average person uses. We even put off a vacation this year and decided to stay close to home and do things around here for fun with the kids, instead of driving several hundred miles.
If there is anything else I can do to help the cause, I need to know it.

What I dont understand is the price has skyrocketed on gas that is already at the gas station. They already have the gas there for several days at least and in some cases are charging .50 more per gallon in just a few days.

Last night, gas was $2.99 per gal at the place I usually get it, where its usually the cheapest around. I dont want to know what the price is today.

This is starting a new trend- Americans are now having to CHARGE gasoline on their credit cards. For many-the cost of commuting to and from work has doubled inside of the past few months.
Between this and home heating costs this winter, we are going to have large amounts of people BORROWING to pay for fuel as interest rates go up. This is going to be bad for us in the long run.
DING DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

If you think I LIKE paying these outrageous gas prices you're crazy. I'm just as annoyed at it in the short term as you are.

I'm trying to look at things in the long term, though. We've had the technology for alternate fuel sources for a long time, we just haven't had the impetus to make them viable in the marketplace. Maybe the absolute raping we're getting at the pumps will provide it.

FUCK THE LONG-TERM....I'M GETTING PAUPERIZED NOW!!!

DING DING DING DING, WE HAVE A WINNER!!!


I'm sure there is some solid and honest reason for that, but it just isnt clear to a simple man like myself. I'm sure its for my own good.

Its scary that this situation will have some people happy to ONLY pay $2.53 a gallon again. Last year, people were pretty pissed off when gas topped $1.50 per gallon. is this just a ruse to get everyone used to paying over $2.00 per gallon?

There is always some bullshit excuse. When there is a shortage, prices go up, when there is a glut prices go up. When the demand is high and when it is low, prices go up. When there isa problem, prices increase immediately, but when the problem has passed, prices linger.

I have no idea what the solution is. I dont have a big SUV and my wife and I have both managed to make our jobs such that we work 95% of the time from home. I dont put 10 miles a week on my car. I'm not sure what more I can do to have done my part. I'm using a very small percentage of fuel compared to what the average person uses. We even put off a vacation this year and decided to stay close to home and do things around here for fun with the kids, instead of driving several hundred miles.
If there is anything else I can do to help the cause, I need to know it.


Wish I had a job...and if so, that I could telecommute!! shit, I'm such a hermit by nature that, if I didn't HAVE to, I'd never leave the house.

Generally, I hate people, anyway. I don't trust them. Once bitten, twice shy, you know? Except I've been bitten a million times. I'm like a female Howard Hughes without the hair, fingernails, or money.

I'm sincere, too. I sincerely don't like being around people. Never have. I've always wondered just when they were gonna try to stick the knife in my back.

Maybe these high gas prices will start people clamoring to their companies to allow for telecommuting, and that might, in the long term, solve our problems...and in the short-term, stop us from being pauperized!

And for me, it would be ideal, because I am exactly the kind of person telecommuting was invented for. Because I hate people, and I hate gossip, and I hate little office "cliques" I hate all the head games people play on each other. Maybe because I'm no good at playing them.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

I totally AGREE!
If we used all the oil in our own country instead of importing it from everywhere else we wouldnt be in this mess. There are so many oil wells just sitting idle in pa, cause it wasnt worth pumping them anymore, because of our lame ass government! As for better fuel economy. Everytime some smart genius designs a engine that can get 100mpg, the oil companys buy the right to it or shut the guy up for good. NO way can they have less money in their pocket if people only had to get gass once a month!

FUCK THE LONG-TERM....I'M GETTING PAUPERIZED NOW!!!

I don't mean this to be insulting, so please don't take it that way..

But didn't you just say that you were unemployed and lived with your mom? How is it that gas prices are pauperizing you? Wouldn't that be the fault of your not having a job?

All I'm saying is that the utter ridiculousness of gas prices might finally get the process underway where we, as Americans, are no longer dependent upon fossil fuels AT ALL. Surely that's not something to scoff at.

Wish I had a job...and if so, that I could telecommute!! shit, I'm such a hermit by nature that, if I didn't HAVE to, I'd never leave the house.

Generally, I hate people, anyway. I don't trust them. Once bitten, twice shy, you know? Except I've been bitten a million times. I'm like a female Howard Hughes without the hair, fingernails, or money.

I'm sincere, too. I sincerely don't like being around people. Never have. I've always wondered just when they were gonna try to stick the knife in my back.

Maybe these high gas prices will start people clamoring to their companies to allow for telecommuting, and that might, in the long term, solve our problems...and in the short-term, stop us from being pauperized!

And for me, it would be ideal, because I am exactly the kind of person telecommuting was invented for. Because I hate people, and I hate gossip, and I hate little office "cliques" I hate all the head games people play on each other. Maybe because I'm no good at playing them.

Well- you're way off topic and seem to have some severe social issues. Keep in mind- the trade off for telecomuting and not having to drive to a job everyday is that one morning the owner of managing partner of your co decides he will make a lot more money by outsourcing your job to a much cheaper English speaking person that doesnt need or demand those pesky benefits like health insurance. I have that hanging over me. They could get 5 people in India to replace me-working 4 hours to my 1 hour and still not pay out HALF of what they pay me. And no benefits, lunches or paid time off.

Please God tell me that someone has bothered to mentioned OPEC. I can't help but get a little irritated when people blame the "oil companies" for prices since OPEC has a lot more to do with it than they do. Of course the gas stations and refineries and such always turn a profit, but the margin typically doesn't vary that much. Also, you should remember that there is a tax that in some places probably approaches $.50 on the dollar, which doesn't help either. Please stop blaming your government's bullshit issues on the private sector: they're operating more or less as they always have.

When gas stations set prices, what happens is they have an agent who negotiates the price of their purchase in order to set prices. In this case, it's probably spiking a bit because a quater of our domestic oil supply comes from the Gulf, and the storm has disabled a lot of our infrastructure in that area.

And yes, we've had storms down there before but none were this bad or hit us this hard over such a large area. The age of cheap gas is over anyway, so you might as well get used to it. Chances are, we'll be paying close to or over $2 a gallon for the rest of our lives in most places.

Its scary that this situation will have some people happy to ONLY pay $2.53 a gallon again. Last year, people were pretty pissed off when gas topped $1.50 per gallon. is this just a ruse to get everyone used to paying over $2.00 per gallon?


In Australia we are paying 1.35 a liter... about 6AU a gallon - probably 5US a gallon...

this is very high for us... but $1 a liter is OK... which would still be 3.75US a gallon or so...

Some of my Transport Geography Lecture notes for your enjoyment:
More speed – less access
Easy to increase speed, harder to increase ease of access
“When people save time, they use it to buy more distance”
The amount of time people devote to travel is approximately the same, irrespective of how fast or far they travel. Gains in time are consumed as an increase in distance travelled.

We use technology to increase speed, but we consume speed as distance. We still work, eat sleep and play in roughly the same proportions. We simply do them further apart.

But people often say that despite the gains in speed they have less free time. Why - possibly because of the time they need to spend at work to earn the money to pay for the increased transport

Effective Speed
The average speed of a vehicle after hidden time costs are considered”

What is the formula for “Speed”?
“Speed = distance divided by time”

distance is the total kilometres traveled,
time is the total time devoted to the mode of transport (including the time spent at work to earn the money to pay all the costs created by the particular mode of transport) 

“The typical American male devotes more than 1,600 hours a year to his car. He sits in it while it goes and while it stands idling. He parks it and searches for it. He earns the money to put down on it and to meet the monthly instalments. He works to pay for petrol, tolls, insurance, taxes and tickets. He spends four of his sixteen waking hours on the road or gathering his resources for it” (Illich, 1974, 18-19).
The model American puts in 1,600 hours to get 7,500 miles: less than five miles per hour” (Illich, 1974, 19


Speed consumed by distance
distances between destinations increases (hospitals, jobs, schools, shops)
speed of travel increases
families buy faster cars
governments build faster roads and railways
time savings promote even more spreading of the city, leading to increased demand for time savings

Is it “really” easy to increase speed in cities?
Potentially yes, in terms of trip speeds, but as more people get cars, congestion increases
Actual speed of driving in New York: - about walking speed (5 km/h)

Space pollution
The faster the mode of travel the more space it requires
A car at 40 km/h needs more than 3 times the space of car at 10 km/h
A car at 40 km/h with one person needs 75 times the space of a pedestrian, 20 times as much as a cyclist
A car at 150 km/h needs many hundred times as much as a pedestrian

Pollution of community
How does speed of travel affect a sense of local community “… the decision to travel longer distances (and save time at higher speeds) means that little time is available for interaction with neighbours and so there is less chance of genuine community developing “

Time pollution
In a mechanistic view of the world, time must be ‘saved’ rather than enjoyed or used
“The urge to save time is fuelled by the belief that the next task is more important than the present task, and that speed and crowded diaries correspond to social importance” (Whitelegg, 1995, 78)
Time pollution comes from the way we value time, and whose time we value.
Planners value speed, but particularly the speeds of motorists, air travellers and high speed rail users
Do planners value:Pedestrians time (even the time of pedestrians who have just completed a car trip)?
Costs of parents escorting children?
If they did, our transport systems may be very different

Story - imagine living in a small village about 200 years before now. Your main job is to walk to a nearby creek each day and bring back two buckets of water. This takes you an hour each day.

You are a genius, so you invent a machine to collect the water for you. Your machine has a system of springs, pulleys, cables and levers. All you have to do to get the water is to pull on a lever, and the buckets get taken down to the river, filled with water and come back to you.

Only catch is, you have to spend an hour a day winding up a spring.

Two questions:
1 Have you saved any time? Clearly NO!
2 Is your machine worth having? This is a more complex question. It might be - it might mean that you can avoid being attacked by wild animals. But it might not be. You might miss out on social contact with people, your buckets might injure people who don’t see them coming along the cables. But is certainly not worth having if you’re main aim is to save time.

In our society, the equivalent of sitting there winding up the spring is sitting at work, earning the money to pay for all the expenses associated with your car, or whatever means of transport you use.



Heres some interesting Australian sites on the "sustainable transport" issue
http://www.ara.net.au/society/society.php?id=24


and some references (Harvard referencing system) (perhaps use google scholar)
Kemp, D. and Anderson, J. (2003) New Fuel Consumption Labels on Cars, Australian Government, Accessed from www on 2 September 2004, http://www.deh.gov.au/minister/env/2003/mr01jul03.html
Illich, I. (1974) Energy and Equity, London: Harper and Row.

Tranter, P. J. (2004) Effective Speeds: Car Costs are Slowing Us Down, Department of the Environment and Heritage, Available on the www: at http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/tdm/publications/pubs/effectivespeeds.pdf,

Whitelegg, J. (1993a) Time Pollution, The Ecologist, 23,(4), pp. 131-134.

Whitelegg, J. (1993b) Transport for a Sustainable Future: the Case for Europe, London: Belhaven Press.

O’Brien, C. 2003, Transportation that’s Actually Good for the Soul, National Center for Bicycling and Walking (NCBW) Forum (Canada), 54, 1-13

Whitelegg, J 1990: The European experience: space, speed and greed. In James, P. (Eds) Technocratic Dreaming of Very Fast Trains and Japanese Designer Cities. Left Book Club. Melbourne.

Laird P., Newman P., Bachels M., Kenworthy J., 2001, Back on Track: Rethinking transport policy in Australia and New Zealand UNSW Press, Sydney

The sad thing is, even at $4/L, the price of gas wouldn't cover its actual costs: environmental damage, road repairs, accidents, oil exploration/drilling/refining, related health expenses, etc.

Note to North Americans, and I freely include myself in this: there is no such thing as a God-given right to cheap energy. Even now, when we're all crying "omgz teh oil cartels set us up the prices!", we're paying less than the rest of the developed world for gasoline (not to mention electricity).

So, you've been living for the past twenty years in the middle of nowhere, and suddenly it's getting expensive to drive 100+ miles to work? Consider that a gentle wakeup call, stop complaining, and move. If you can't change the location of your job, change the location of your house or apartment. Maybe your mortgage or rent will be higher, but even if it is, you'll be saving heaps of money on gasoline.

The sad thing is, even at $4/L, the price of gas wouldn't cover its actual costs: environmental damage, road repairs, accidents, oil exploration/drilling/refining, related health expenses, etc.

Note to North Americans, and I freely include myself in this: there is no such thing as a God-given right to cheap energy. Even now, when we're all crying "omgz teh oil cartels set us up the prices!", we're paying less than the rest of the developed world for gasoline (not to mention electricity).

So, you've been living for the past twenty years in the middle of nowhere, and suddenly it's getting expensive to drive 100+ miles to work? Consider that a gentle wakeup call, stop complaining, and move. If you can't change the location of your job, change the location of your house or apartment. Maybe your mortgage or rent will be higher, but even if it is, you'll be saving heaps of money on gasoline.

Not everyone can just move and use less gas!
I own my own company.. I do construction, and I have to drive all over the place to jobs.. The thing is we all are going to pay more over and over. I have to raise my prices now to pay for the rising fuel prices. So my customers are not only paying high prices for their fuel, but paying for mine too! Its a losing situation!

Not everyone can just move and use less gas!
I own my own company.. I do construction, and I have to drive all over the place to jobs.. The thing is we all are going to pay more over and over. I have to raise my prices now to pay for the rising fuel prices. So my customers are not only paying high prices for their fuel, but paying for mine too! Its a losing situation!


And I'm sure you're aware that the prices on all of your material will start climbing shortly- everything-EVERTHING we buy was trucked to the retailer and those trucking/transport companies are all paying for the higher fuel costs. This is going to make or break a lot of small businesses. I dont know where you are, but I know that there is about to be many years worth of construction work in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.

Best wishes to you.

And I'm sure you're aware that the prices on all of your material will start climbing shortly- everything-EVERTHING we buy was trucked to the retailer and those trucking/transport companies are all paying for the higher fuel costs. This is going to make or break a lot of small businesses. I dont know where you are, but I know that there is about to be many years worth of construction work in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.

Best wishes to you.

Its a domino effect and it hurts.. everyone just has to pass it on down the line..

Its a domino effect and it hurts.. everyone just has to pass it on down the line..

Yeah...except, of course, the workers and commuters at the bottom...WE don't GET to pass it on, WE HAVE TO EAT IT!!

Yeah...except, of course, the workers and commuters at the bottom...WE don't GET to pass it on, WE HAVE TO EAT IT!!
Are you in any way aware of what the rest of the world has been paying for gas for the last 50 years?

Are you in any way aware of what the rest of the world has been paying for gas for the last 50 years?

I doubt it.

Nothing goes wrong in Lyric's life that can't be righted with an obscene and LIBERALLY CAPITALIZED set of accusations against big business.

Of course it is price gouging. Two years ago when the price of oil went under $40 a barrel people were asking why the price at the pumps did not go down right away. The answer the oil companies gave was that it took 6 weeks for the price on the market to be reflected at the pumps. Nice to see that those blood sucking vermin still keep that philosophy when the prices go up on the market :headbang:

It has nothing to do with the cost of oil, or the amount of oil we've got. Once again, we have plenty of oil, but we don't have the refining capacity to produce enough gasoline to meet demand. Now, as you know if you've ever taken an economics class, when demand is greater than supply, prices tend to rise, and they won't wait six weeks to do it.

Its a domino effect and it hurts.. everyone just has to pass it on down the line..

yep, its called inflation and it doesn't hurt in the long term. You'll put up your prices, other wages will go up so on a so forth. This then filters through to growth on the corporate bottom line. Its just part of the great Capitalist dream.

Nothing goes wrong in Lyric's life that can't be righted with an obscene and LIBERALLY CAPITALIZED set of accusations against big business.


*L*

yep, its called inflation and it doesn't hurt in the long term. You'll put up your prices, other wages will go up so on a so forth. This then filters through to growth on the corporate bottom line. Its just part of the great Capitalist dream.
I don't see minimum wage increasing to support higher gas prices or the need to buy new hybrid cars so they won't pay body parts in gas prices though

demand is higher than supply

tell all your SUV-driving pals to buy regular passenger cars. Nobody needs to be driving a Hummer, Tahoe or Expedition (etc.) in a f*cking CITY.


you sir, must live in a place with good public transportation. Whether no one needs to be driving a hummer et al, it's their fucking choice to do so. I drive a "regular" car (4-cylinder ford ranger) and i spent 40$ filling up for a tank of gas i've paid 20 for. Unfortunately, Texas is HUGE and places are FAR from each other. Quit being a dickhead and acknowledge that prices are too high.

Gas is a necessity, whether it's for a 4 cylinder, or a semi. It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

/should bring back the thread about boycotting gas stations

Are you in any way aware of what the rest of the world has been paying for gas for the last 50 years?

sure we're aware. but do they hafta drive over 1200 miles just to get to one location in their country? Do those countries have their own companies that produce gasoline?

sure we're aware. but do they hafta drive over 1200 miles just to get to one location in their country? Do those countries have their own companies that produce gasoline?
1) No. At least, not in most cases.

2) Yes.

I'm pointing out that we've got a national infrastructure built for mobility, and that it has its advantages and disadvantages. For whatever reason we're still paying remarkably less than most other countries.

you sir, must live in a place with good public transportation. Whether no one needs to be driving a hummer et al, it's their fucking choice to do so. I drive a "regular" car (4-cylinder ford ranger) and i spent 40$ filling up for a tank of gas i've paid 20 for. Unfortunately, Texas is HUGE and places are FAR from each other. Quit being a dickhead and acknowledge that prices are too high.

Gas is a necessity, whether it's for a 4 cylinder, or a semi. It shouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

/should bring back the thread about boycotting gas stations

Yes, it is a choice. That's what economics is--the decision on how to use LIMITED resources. Laws of supply and demand have been around a long time. It comes down to if you CHOOSE to use (purchase) more gas (by purchasing a vehicle that uses more), you will cause the market to respond by raising prices on the limited resource (fuel).

Are gas companies gouging, yes, but not as much as everyone is screaming that they are.

This is how a free market works. You pay what you're willing to pay and then you find alternatives.

I think oil companies are realizing that fuel will continue to rise, and that the public will demand alternative fuels and vehicles that will utilize those fuels, so they're trying to squeeze the most out of the rock that's drying up. It's typical. If you don't like the market, find a different way--that's how it works.

No one NEEDS gasoline. People CHOOSE to live on mountains, or other restricted spaces, where supplies are more difficult to get. They also can choose to live in places where supplies are easier to get a hold of. That is the choice someone makes on their own.

...I'M UN-EM-FUCKING-PLOYED!!!

You know... everyone here is dancing around the point. Here in lays your problem. :rolleyes:

sure we're aware. but do they hafta drive over 1200 miles just to get to one location in their country? Do those countries have their own companies that produce gasoline?

I live in Australia... We have a much larger spacing than you do in the US cause well there are 20 Million people living in something the size of the USA.

We pay more for fuel than you - call it about twice maybe three times the price... you get it very cheap...

(oh yes we are also a crude oil net EXPORTER, and have our own refineries wells etc...)

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??

Wrong! Price of gas is going up because of Hurricane Katrina. You do know that we lost alot of oil production in the Gulf Coast region right? We lost refineries as well as oil platforms when that Category 4, 140mph hit us.

I'm not surprised that prices jumped up the way they did. I also give credit to President Bush to open up the Oil Reserves to try to LOWER prices. Its not the oil companies in this case that sparked the gas price hike. It was Katrina. Nice try though.

I also give credit to President Bush to open up the Oil Reserves to try to LOWER prices.

It won't make a difference, but it's a nice gesture.

What retirement fund? I have all I can do to fund my current living expenses, let alone retirement!! Current living eats up every last penny, I HAVE nothing to save for retirement. Thanks, Exxon-Mobil!!

Get a clue would you?

I, for one, am glad at the skyrocketing prices. It'll jar Americans out of their complacency and have them clamoring for better fuel sources. It's long overdue.

And hence the energy bill that Congress passed not to long ago. I'm glad I keep up with current events.

Horse-shit. They always have an excuse.


Blinded by pure hatred. You can't see the truth because your so head over heels that it is someone's fault regardless of the fact that about a thousand plus probably died with a natural disaster that hit the United States. But I guess that won't spark a gas price hike! Learn something about economics and what a natural disaster can do.

While your at it, grow up.

If gas prices are going up because of natural circumstances out of our control, fine.

But gas is an integral component in modern life. It is needed, at least for now. So if the gas prices go up, very well. But my wages had better go up as well to compensate.

Somehow I don't think they will.

And that is why there are a lot of pissed off people, regardless of whether we pay less for gas than the rest of the world.

Nothing goes wrong in Lyric's life that can't be righted with an obscene and LIBERALLY CAPITALIZED set of accusations against big business.

Regretably, I agree with this statement.

Yes, it is a choice. That's what economics is--the decision on how to use LIMITED resources. Laws of supply and demand have been around a long time. It comes down to if you CHOOSE to use (purchase) more gas (by purchasing a vehicle that uses more), you will cause the market to respond by raising prices on the limited resource (fuel).
i'll agree w/ this. i don't like it, but i'll agree :P

Are gas companies gouging, yes, but not as much as everyone is screaming that they are.
Thanks for acknowledging this, gouging is supposed to be illegal, it doesn't matter how much it is.

This is how a free market works. You pay what you're willing to pay and then you find alternatives.

I think oil companies are realizing that fuel will continue to rise, and that the public will demand alternative fuels and vehicles that will utilize those fuels, so they're trying to squeeze the most out of the rock that's drying up. It's typical. If you don't like the market, find a different way--that's how it works.
again i'll agree, and unfortunately i'm a bit impatient when it comes to alternative fuels. (must be the typical American in me)

No one NEEDS gasoline. People CHOOSE to live on mountains, or other restricted spaces, where supplies are more difficult to get. They also can choose to live in places where supplies are easier to get a hold of. That is the choice someone makes on their own.
This i will disagree with. W/O gasoline, cars and some forms of public transportation wouldn't exist. I don't live in a mountain, but due to the poor public transportation system where i live (it would take me two hours to get to work on a bus, versus 25 minutes by car), it's more economical time-wise for me to take my own vehicle, plus, i have school immediately after work, and i'm stressed to get there on time w/ just my car, i think i would be late every day by bus. We have no train system here in North Texas, except long-haul lines, that and Dallas/Ft. Worth have their own little rail lines that they cart ppl around in, but i don't live in Dallas, i live in a suburb of that, where no trains go (i think they're working on fixing this however, again, i can't wait :P)
I actually moved closer to my job because of the distance it took me to get to work, gas was starting to be around $2.30, so i'm glad i moved when i did. I've also seen gas skyrocket 35 cents at the cheapo gas stations since Monday. In Texas, you NEED gas, if you don't have a car, it's very difficult for you to get around.

I live in Australia... We have a much larger spacing than you do in the US cause well there are 20 Million people living in something the size of the USA.

We pay more for fuel than you - call it about twice maybe three times the price... you get it very cheap...

(oh yes we are also a crude oil net EXPORTER, and have our own refineries wells etc...)

Right... i've been to Australia. The city i visited (Brisbane) has an EXCELLENT train system. and the only time we went driving was when we went to the gold coast. Australia may be larger than the US, but except for the rural areas, you don't really need to drive. Gas there is more of a luxury than it is here.

*edit*
i do admit, the above bolded part is an assumption on my part :P i could be wrong.

i see that this discussion has moved to another thread...

*bump, wants replies damnit!*

This i will disagree with. W/O gasoline, cars and some forms of public transportation wouldn't exist. I don't live in a mountain, but due to the poor public transportation system where i live (it would take me two hours to get to work on a bus, versus 25 minutes by car), it's more economical time-wise for me to take my own vehicle, plus, i have school immediately after work, and i'm stressed to get there on time w/ just my car, i think i would be late every day by bus. We have no train system here in North Texas, except long-haul lines, that and Dallas/Ft. Worth have their own little rail lines that they cart ppl around in, but i don't live in Dallas, i live in a suburb of that, where no trains go (i think they're working on fixing this however, again, i can't wait :P)
I actually moved closer to my job because of the distance it took me to get to work, gas was starting to be around $2.30, so i'm glad i moved when i did. I've also seen gas skyrocket 35 cents at the cheapo gas stations since Monday. In Texas, you NEED gas, if you don't have a car, it's very difficult for you to get around.

I guess I'll keep backing up to the choice to go places. I know it's not easy to get a job within 15 minutes of home, and that not everything will be within reach, but lifestyle choices, living space choices, and vehicle choices are what cause this "need" to be able to get around, there isn't actually an inherent need to get around to live, work, or eat.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's almost impossible to do what I'm suggesting, given the society we live in today, but I just wanted people to realize that the "hardship" is coming from choices we've all made--not because someone decided to just hike prices on fuel. Our financial limits come from our financial and life choices.

Now, to get on your side a bit--I don't like the gas prices going up any more than anyone else--I like to be able to have fun, as opposed to limit the fun, so I can get to work reliably and be able to get food. And yes, under current law, price gouging is illegal. Will someone look at it? I don't know.

Right... i've been to Australia. The city i visited (Brisbane) has an EXCELLENT train system. and the only time we went driving was when we went to the gold coast. Australia may be larger than the US, but except for the rural areas, you don't really need to drive. Gas there is more of a luxury than it is here.

*edit*
i do admit, the above bolded part is an assumption on my part :P i could be wrong.

Heh...Australia is the sixth largest country in terms of land area. The US is third, due in no small part to Texas, I might add. :D

Heh...Australia is the sixth largest country in terms of land area. The US is third, due in no small part to Texas, I might add. :D

You forgot Alaska, Florida, California, New York, and Pennsylvania! All large states :D

Anyway, I don't see price gouging here! Just a standard reaction to a massive natural disaster that shut down our capacity to keep the gas flowing.

You forgot Alaska, Florida, California, New York, and Pennsylvania! All large states :D


Nah, I remembered those, but I was just pointing out Texas because Mirchaz is from there. :)


Anyway, I don't see price gouging here! Just a standard reaction to a massive natural disaster that shut down our capacity to keep the gas flowing.

When prices dropped on oil, experts were stating that it would take six weeks to see the effect--the exact same should apply to a rise.

They're "padding".

You got all the answers, don't you?!?!

My car already gets 38 MPG. You can't get more efficient than that without buying a hybrid. And what am I supposed to use to buy it, my good looks...I'M UN-EM-FUCKING-PLOYED!!!

Ride a bike? Great answer! I live in a rural area, at the end of a dirt road, in the middle of nowheresville! Yeah, just where did you think a bike was gonna get me? And as for a bus, forget it! There ain't any such thing as public transportation where I live. You won't see a bus in this entire county, except maybe the Greyhound that goes along Interstate 80, and wouldn't stop in this pissant county for anything!

No, out where I live, you are literally FUCKED if you don't have a car...and the oil companies got me and all my neighbors over a fucking barrel, WE HAVE NO CHOICE!!

why don't you learn the particulars of someone's situation, before you go spouting off your brilliant solutions? not everyone lives in NYC, Cjhicago, L.A. or somewhere where public transport is actually an option!

Like to see you try to ride 70 miles one way, every day, on a bike, to go to work, like my mom would have to!

get a job then. jesus h, is everything someone else's fault? You do live in America, right? You have options and ultimate control over your choices.

When prices dropped on oil, experts were stating that it would take six weeks to see the effect--the exact same should apply to a rise.

They're "padding".

Actually they aren't. Not in this case. Any other time I would agree with you but when your capacity is shut down. Prices tend to jump. It'll take longer for Gas to get from point A to point B now since New Orleans is 80% under water.

Also, the gas lines are down as well as oil refineries and oil platforms. This will have a devestating effect on oil production. It is no wonder that the price per gallon shot up 50 cents in places around the country. GA is nearly out of gas and gas at other joints will begin to pitter out. It'll be weeks before things will straighten out.

get a job then. jesus h, is everything someone else's fault?

With her, it apparently is. Also, she has a pure hatred that she can't overcome and that'll cost her one of these days. Once she gets over her hatred with the world, then maybe she can see sense!

You DO realize that Katrina shut down about a full quarter of the oil production in the U.S., right?

Oh, I guess not. So they also bribed every media outlet (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=katrina+u.s.+oil+production) as well to say that? An impressive conspiracy, well done I must say.

I actually agree with this. Other than driving up prices for the rest of us, the damnable things are impossible to see over, and it doesn't matter if you're driving an SUV or a normal car if you get in a fight with a semi - semi wins, every time.

not to mention, you can't single-park an SUV in a normal curb-side parking spot... they take up so much damn space.

SUVs represent a total waste of resources in about 99% of the instances in which they are bought. (IE, where you don't regularly use the SUV as it is intended -- for off-road transport)

With her, it apparently is. Also, she has a pure hatred that she can't overcome and that'll cost her one of these days. Once she gets over her hatred with the world, then maybe she can see sense!

well I like her and intended to give her some tough love... we don't do so well (usually) with defeatist attitudes in which we view ourselves as helpless.

I'm not surprised that prices jumped up the way they did. I also give credit to President Bush to open up the Oil Reserves to try to LOWER prices. Its not the oil companies in this case that sparked the gas price hike. It was Katrina. Nice try though.

I'm not surprised either. Obviously with the disaster in the Gulf, it was to be expected, although prices were going up even before Katrina.

I don't really think Bush had a choice but to open up the oil reserves unless he wanted to be seen as an asshat. However you have one problem with your understanding of it. It will not lower prices one bit. It's a band-aid solution. It is only meant to stabilize the market, which will not translate into lower prices. Don't forget what is being released is crude oil, not refined product. Prices will continue to go up. It will get far worse before it gets better. Opening the reserves was just an attempt to calm the market. It won't make a difference to the average Joe at the pump.

let's see if i got my conversion right... (Please correct me if i don't)

Drudge shows gas @ 5.87 a gallon.
5.87 US is converted to 4.71 Euro.

1 gallon = 3.78 litres.

4.71 euro per 3.78 litre = 1.25euro a litre?


pretty expensive in the US now, neh? :P

I'm not surprised either. Obviously with the disaster in the Gulf, it was to be expected, although prices were going up even before Katrina.

I don't really think Bush had a choice but to open up the oil reserves unless he wanted to be seen as an asshat. However you have one problem with your understanding of it. It will not lower prices one bit. It's a band-aid solution. It is only meant to stabilize the market, which will not translate into lower prices. Don't forget what is being released is crude oil, not refined product. Prices will continue to go up. It will get far worse before it gets better. Opening the reserves was just an attempt to calm the market. It won't make a difference to the average Joe at the pump.

Thank you for stating the obvious. I already knew it wasn't going to do a bit of good. I already knew it was a stabilization move that has no hope of working out. I already knew it was crude oil too.

You are right that prices will still go up and hopefully when we get our oil refineries back online, prices will drop some.

With her, it apparently is. Also, she has a pure hatred that she can't overcome and that'll cost her one of these days. Once she gets over her hatred with the world, then maybe she can see sense!

weird... i always thought Lyric was a guy.

Thank you for stating the obvious. I already knew it wasn't going to do a bit of good. I already knew it was a stabilization move that has no hope of working out. I already knew it was crude oil too.

You are right that prices will still go up and hopefully when we get our oil refineries back online, prices will drop some.

Oh, I see, I thought you had the belief that this would lower prices. If I misunderstood you, my mistake. Sorry.

Also, prices were still quite high even before Katrina, so I'm not sure how much lower they will go even after the refineries that Katrina brought down go back online. I suppose only time will tell.

You're not paying for the damage the hurricane caused, you're paying for the limited amount of gasoline that's available. It's not pleasent, but there isn't as much gas available as before and so America has to use less. The government could ration it, but it's much less of a headache and you're almost certainly better off with a price rise instead. And yeah, the oil companies make money. Of course maybe you own part of the oil company yourself through your retirement fund or something, so it might not be all bad for you.

Personally I think america would be better off if it didn't depend so much on oil. Maybe this price rise will convince people to be more economical.

And some good news is that some oil will be released from the strategic oil reserve to mitigate shortages, which will help keep the price from going even higher, in the short term.

UPDATE: Aparently eight refineries have shut down due to storm damage. That's puts a big dint in the amount of gasoline being produced. There just isn't enough gas to go around at the old prices.


First off, the jump in prices overnight was not due to a suddenly more dwindling oil supply. It is price gouging.

Point #2 - We keep paying it so it will keep going up. Eventually the oil companies will stop making excuses and just say, "Yeah it's $5 a gallon, if you don't like it TOO BAD"

Perhaps if we had more hydrogen stations setting up we could start importing the Euro Hyrdrogen cars and and say "SCREW YOU GAS MAN".

Unfortunately the GWB regime has brought the kibash down on that.

I'm not surprised either. Obviously with the disaster in the Gulf, it was to be expected, although prices were going up even before Katrina.

I don't really think Bush had a choice but to open up the oil reserves unless he wanted to be seen as an asshat. However you have one problem with your understanding of it. It will not lower prices one bit. It's a band-aid solution. It is only meant to stabilize the market, which will not translate into lower prices. Don't forget what is being released is crude oil, not refined product. Prices will continue to go up. It will get far worse before it gets better. Opening the reserves was just an attempt to calm the market. It won't make a difference to the average Joe at the pump.

Too true, Tattoo! :(

Actually they aren't. Not in this case. Any other time I would agree with you but when your capacity is shut down. Prices tend to jump. It'll take longer for Gas to get from point A to point B now since New Orleans is 80% under water.

Also, the gas lines are down as well as oil refineries and oil platforms. This will have a devestating effect on oil production. It is no wonder that the price per gallon shot up 50 cents in places around the country. GA is nearly out of gas and gas at other joints will begin to pitter out. It'll be weeks before things will straighten out.

You have several valid points.

weird... i always thought Lyric was a guy.

Why? Just curious...

First off, the jump in prices overnight was not due to a suddenly more dwindling oil supply. It is price gouging.

Point #2 - We keep paying it so it will keep going up. Eventually the oil companies will stop making excuses and just say, "Yeah it's $5 a gallon, if you don't like it TOO BAD"

Perhaps if we had more hydrogen stations setting up we could start importing the Euro Hyrdrogen cars and and say "SCREW YOU GAS MAN".

Unfortunately the GWB regime has brought the kibash down on that.

Small problem--electrolysis is too slow (unless you covered each coast with plants), and the other method involves using natural gas to create hydrogen. So, it costs fossil fuels to make the gas to replace fossil fuels...catch 22.

you know what I say to that....FUCK THE EARTH! I WANT MY GAS PRICES BACK IN THE AREA OF REASONABLE!!


I agree. Will the hippies let us start drilling in Alaska now?

Perhaps if we had more hydrogen stations setting up we could start importing the Euro Hyrdrogen cars and and say "SCREW YOU GAS MAN". Unfortunately the GWB regime has brought the kibash down on that.
Um... you do know how many problems there are with hydrogen, right? For starters, it either has to be created through electrolysis - a process requiring a large input of electricity - or it's distilled from hydrocarbons (normally natural gas or oil).

So. You can either use fossil fuels to create hydrogen, or you can use electricity - which, in the US, comes from coal-powered generation stations, nuclear plants, and the odd hydroelectric project.

Then you need to store the stuff. And the stuff doesn't like to be stored. Hydrogen is the smallest, lightest, simplest element around. It's tiny. It finds gaps and cracks in watertight tanks, and seeps merrily out into the atmosphere. It also has very low energy density - to be effective, it has to be either highly compressed, liquified, or bonded to a solid to form combustible metal hydrides. All of those things require - guess what? - even more energy input, and they raise some fairly major transportation issues as well. Liquid hydrogen would need to be kept at about -252C, which would require some pretty impressive refridgeration. If compressed sufficiently as a gas, the pressure would be such as to warrant incredibly thick transportation units. Ever dropped a CO2 tank, and watched it ricochet down a hallway smashing everything in sight? Picture a compressed air tank the size of a schoolbus getting jarred loose in an accident and flying down a highway.

Now, having said all that: hydrogen is feasible in some parts of the world, and for some purposes. Iceland, for example, has geothermic and hydroelectric power bubbling up from the ground, and they're well on their way to developing a functional hydrogen economy. Even their fishing fleet is switching to hydrogen, with all its storage problems. If it's produced locally, from a renewable source of energy, and used immediately, hydrogen is a great fuel. But don't expect it to replace gasoline any time soon, if ever.

Oh, I see, I thought you had the belief that this would lower prices. If I misunderstood you, my mistake. Sorry.

No problem :) We all make mistakes Steph :) I was just giving him credit for opening it up! Don't know where its going to be refined at but at least he did open it.

Also, prices were still quite high even before Katrina, so I'm not sure how much lower they will go even after the refineries that Katrina brought down go back online. I suppose only time will tell.

I agree time will tell. Hopefully prices do drop but I know it won't drop that much when production gets back online. Alwell...I can dream can I? :D

You have several valid points.

Thanks. :)

It is rare I get this form of a compliment so I'll cherish it!

Hawkintom']I agree. Will the hippies let us start drilling in Alaska now?

I wish they would! Alaska wants to do that. The Majority of their population infact would welcome it.

Unfortunately, the greenie weenies won't allow it and even a devestating hurricane won't change their minds.

Alwell! I guess we'll have to make due. Also, I wish they let us build more refineries! That would also help lower the price of gas. To much to ask for I guess.

Thanks. :)

It is rare I get this form of a compliment so I'll cherish it!

Hey, facts are facts. <bows>

I wish they would! Alaska wants to do that. The Majority of their population infact would welcome it.

Unfortunately, the greenie weenies won't allow it and even a devestating hurricane won't change their minds.

Alwell! I guess we'll have to make due. Also, I wish they let us build more refineries! That would also help lower the price of gas. To much to ask for I guess.

Unfortunately, the EPA has done a lot to harm our society. :mad:

I don't mean this to be insulting, so please don't take it that way..

But didn't you just say that you were unemployed and lived with your mom? How is it that gas prices are pauperizing you? Wouldn't that be the fault of your not having a job?

All I'm saying is that the utter ridiculousness of gas prices might finally get the process underway where we, as Americans, are no longer dependent upon fossil fuels AT ALL. Surely that's not something to scoff at.

And high gas prices are part of the reason I am unemployed and living with my mom, thank you very much!!

I have written, in other threads, how my last employer screwed us all over and lied about the wages we might expect...slashing our wages by, in some cases, over 3 dollars an hour...just at the time the gas prices really started to skyrocket (from $1.40 to $1.70 a gallon in just a month!!)

I decided that I could not afford a wage cut that I was promised would not happen, just at the time gas prices were skyrocketing, and I quit my job in protest over the lies about our wages. Haven't had a decent job since.

But if I'd kept the job, I'd be in the freaking poorhouse, bigtime now!! Because they would've cut wages even further, and NOW look at gas prices!!

Are you in any way aware of what the rest of the world has been paying for gas for the last 50 years?

Hey...that's the rest of the world, and I quite frankly don't give a shit! We're used to what we are used to...we have made our budgets based on what we are used to...and now, all of a sudden, in the past two years, gasoline prices have more than DOUBLED...which is killing our budgets!!

Our wages are not going up to compensate us for the extra cost of commuting.

Taxi drivers and airlines, they get to charge "fuel surcharges" when gas prices go up like this. Workers can't very well charge their employers a "feul surcharge" when the cost of our daily commute over doubles in less than a year...no, we gotta EAT that...and we have to cut our budgets and "do without" somewhere else, and that just ain't fair!

Why? Just curious...

i dunno, just they way they typed. I've never met a woman w/ so much hate, but i've seen guys do it.

*shrug*

I wish they would! Alaska wants to do that. The Majority of their population infact would welcome it.

Unfortunately, the greenie weenies won't allow it and even a devestating hurricane won't change their minds.

Alwell! I guess we'll have to make due. Also, I wish they let us build more refineries! That would also help lower the price of gas. To much to ask for I guess.

When would that gas get to us? I'd think it would take years to build the facilities and then I don't have a clue for how long it would take to refine.

And this is it for today from me. Hopefully, I have enough gas to get home. (:

It has nothing to do with the cost of oil, or the amount of oil we've got. Once again, we have plenty of oil, but we don't have the refining capacity to produce enough gasoline to meet demand. Now, as you know if you've ever taken an economics class, when demand is greater than supply, prices tend to rise, and they won't wait six weeks to do it.

Fine and dandy. Thanks for the Economics 101. So tell us, O Great Swami Copiosa...why do they wait six weeks to LOWER the fucking prices?!?!

And why is that okay? Why is it only okay for Joe and Jane Sixpack to take it on the chin, and never the big oil companies?

i dunno, just they way they typed. I've never met a woman w/ so much hate, but i've seen guys do it.

*shrug*

Interesting take.

1) No. At least, not in most cases.

2) Yes.

I'm pointing out that we've got a national infrastructure built for mobility, and that it has its advantages and disadvantages. For whatever reason we're still paying remarkably less than most other countries.

That may well be, Melkor, and I'm not disputing that....BUT THIS SHARP INCREASE IS BREAKING THE BACK OF OUR BUDGETS!!

I don't know if y'all care...but,

there is an article at Brother Jonathon http://brojon.com that explains ALL the questions about oil

It's listed as "Hot Gold, Black Gold"

---
C.H.F.

Price of gas up here in the Northeastern part of Pennsylvania just shot up FORTY FUCKING CENTS overnight!! You can't mean to tell me that Katrina cost the oil companies this much?? We have had CAT 4 and 5 hurricanes over the Gulf before without gas going up this much!!

THIS IS PRICE-GOUGING, PURE AND SIMPLE, AND THE OIL COMAPNIES SUCK HUGE DEAD GREEN DONKEY DICK!!

Yeah, the poor, desperate folks in New Orleans who are looting stuff are "trashy people who should be shot on sight" but the oil companies gouging out our goddamn pocketbooks, are just real nice, stright, up-front, honest businessmen,...RIGHT??
Yup, the oil folk are total wankers.

Easy solution: STOP DRIVING. Oil companies can suck it, as far as I am concerned, and I'm not about to pad their wallets any more than my heating bill already requires.

Wrong! Price of gas is going up because of Hurricane Katrina. You do know that we lost alot of oil production in the Gulf Coast region right? We lost refineries as well as oil platforms when that Category 4, 140mph hit us.

I'm not surprised that prices jumped up the way they did. I also give credit to President Bush to open up the Oil Reserves to try to LOWER prices. Its not the oil companies in this case that sparked the gas price hike. It was Katrina. Nice try though.

Yeah? Then why didn't Andrew or Ivan see a similar spike...those hurricanes were both very, very strong, and went thru the Gulf, too.

Nice fuckin' try. The oil companies are gouging.

It isn't like we haven't seen CAT 4 or CAT 5 hurricanes in the Gulf before. No excuse for the spike we're seeing. NONE.

Fine and dandy. Thanks for the Economics 101. So tell us, O Great Swami Copiosa...why do they wait six weeks to LOWER the fucking prices?!?!

And why is that okay? Why is it only okay for Joe and Jane Sixpack to take it on the chin, and never the big oil companies?

You want to know why? Two reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

1) The "Greens" making it impossible for any energy companies to expand capabilities.

2) The NIMBY principle followed by many Joe and Jane Sixpacks throughout the country making it impossible for any energy companies to expand capabilities.

We're running off of an energy grid/production capacity that hasn't seen major improvement or expansion since the 1970's.

Yup, the oil folk are total wankers.

Easy solution: STOP DRIVING. Oil companies can suck it, as far as I am concerned, and I'm not about to pad their wallets any more than my heating bill already requires.
much easier said than done. I already cut on my driving. I rarely go out unless i hafta. However, some ppl's jobs require that they drive.

Yeah? Then why didn't Andrew or Ivan see a similar spike...those hurricanes were both very, very strong, and went thru the Gulf, too.

Nice fuckin' try. The oil companies are gouging.

It isn't like we haven't seen CAT 4 or CAT 5 hurricanes in the Gulf before. No excuse for the spike we're seeing. NONE.

They also didn't destroy the refining capabilites of the entire region.

If gas prices are going up because of natural circumstances out of our control, fine.

But gas is an integral component in modern life. It is needed, at least for now. So if the gas prices go up, very well. But my wages had better go up as well to compensate.

Somehow I don't think they will.

And that is why there are a lot of pissed off people, regardless of whether we pay less for gas than the rest of the world.

Bingo! Exactly. We're pissed, because this is breaking the backs of our budgets, because it is going up way too much...and way too quickly! And our wages are not rising to compensate us for this. so our buying power is decreasing. And so we are pissed off. You'd be pissed off, too, if, all of a sudden, instead of 1 hour a week going towards the cost of your commute, suddenly four hours a week are going towards the cost of your commute!

much easier said than done. I already cut on my driving. I rarely go out unless i hafta. However, some ppl's jobs require that they drive.
I purposefully have moved so I live and work in cities with mass transit, to avoid that situation. I pay slightly more for rent so that I can live in a location that's more convenient for this lifestyle, even though I also have to sacrifice some square footage. It's actually not that hard to do.

The best way to stick it to the oil companies is to stop giving them money. Stop needing them. Stop using their product. If Americans were willing to stop being such oil gluttons, the oil companies couldn't afford to be such jackasses.

Yeah? Then why didn't Andrew or Ivan see a similar spike...those hurricanes were both very, very strong, and went thru the Gulf, too.

Nice fuckin' try. The oil companies are gouging.

It isn't like we haven't seen CAT 4 or CAT 5 hurricanes in the Gulf before. No excuse for the spike we're seeing. NONE.

did andrew or ivan drown 80% of a city? did they damage oil producing machineries?

Regretably, I agree with this statement.

And that is why you are on my ignore list, Corny. Anyone else wanna join him?

Yup, the oil folk are total wankers.

Easy solution: STOP DRIVING. Oil companies can suck it, as far as I am concerned, and I'm not about to pad their wallets any more than my heating bill already requires.
We have the third biggest city in the state, no public transportation. I go to school 20 minutes away. I guess I will shout "I have the power," jump on the back of the creature my cat turned into and ride to school.

You forgot Alaska, Florida, California, New York, and Pennsylvania! All large states :D

Anyway, I don't see price gouging here! Just a standard reaction to a massive natural disaster that shut down our capacity to keep the gas flowing.

Of course you wouldn't see anything like price gouging, Mr. "I-Love-Big-Business-Fuck-The-Average-Joe" Republican.

The price has gone up not because of oil companies gouging you but because of a natural disaster. You can hardly blame the oil companies for hurricane Katrina. In fact, if it weren't for the oil companies, you would be paying even more for oil because you would literally have to go to an oil field and pump the stuff out of the ground yourself. Don't be so hasty to bite the hand that feeds you.


Obviously u know nothing of business, because thats what oil companies are. They have insurance for these types of situations. Plus there has been no abrupt shortage over the past few months, they are gouging plain and simple. I waqsn't going to bite the hand that feeds me, just the one that rapes me every week! :headbang:

Nah, I remembered those, but I was just pointing out Texas because Mirchaz is from there. :)



When prices dropped on oil, experts were stating that it would take six weeks to see the effect--the exact same should apply to a rise.

They're "padding".

Exactly what I'm complaining about. they are padding...and they NEVER drop the price in response to the market as quickly as they RAISE it in response to the market! What do they think, we were all born yesterday?? That we have no long-term memory??

A couple years ago, when crude dropped below 40 bucks a barrel, and people asked why we weren't seeing it at the pump, we were told it took six weeks for the supply price to have an effect at the pump. guess that only applies to a price DECREASE. when it's an INCREASE, it takes all of SIX FUCKIN' SECONDS to have an effect at the pump...that is what I'm pissed about!

I DON'T FUCKIN' LIKE BEING LIED TO!!

You expect me to believe that?

1. The stock market has been virtually FLAT for five and a half years, since Bush took office. the dow is close to what it was on Inauguration Day, 2001.

2. You expect me to believe that? Gas prices haven't been NORMAL in nearly two years! For me, "normal" gas prices are around, say, $1.30 a gallon. I won't hold my breath waiting to see THAT price ever again!

virutally flat ?? for five years... obviously you didn't graduate from a reputablie college.. and if u did.. u may as well shred that diploma cause its worthless.. before you spout ignorance check your stats. Over five years the Stockmarket has rebounded significantly. And if you consider 1.30 a gallon normal get a reality check.. America has enjoyed low gas prices because of government subsides... if u didn't know.. the rest of the world already pays 5 bucks a liter.. even less then a gallon!! Get use to these prices because the vacation is over bucko. Its not the evil rich gas companies taking advantage of you but the real world catching up to u. And if your unemployed.. how bout u get out of ur mommies house and find a job like the rest of humanity and stop blaming everyone else!

get a job then. jesus h, is everything someone else's fault? You do live in America, right? You have options and ultimate control over your choices.

Yeah? Exactly what am I supposed to do?? Bring a gun to the interview, hold it to the guy's head, and MAKE him hire me?? You think I'm not fucking TRYING to get a job??

Actually they aren't. Not in this case. Any other time I would agree with you but when your capacity is shut down. Prices tend to jump. It'll take longer for Gas to get from point A to point B now since New Orleans is 80% under water.

Also, the gas lines are down as well as oil refineries and oil platforms. This will have a devestating effect on oil production. It is no wonder that the price per gallon shot up 50 cents in places around the country. GA is nearly out of gas and gas at other joints will begin to pitter out. It'll be weeks before things will straighten out.


And how much ya wanna bet that once everything DOES get straightened back out, they will be in NO HURRY to lower the prices back to what they were?

Thank you for stating the obvious. I already knew it wasn't going to do a bit of good. I already knew it was a stabilization move that has no hope of working out. I already knew it was crude oil too.

You are right that prices will still go up and hopefully when we get our oil refineries back online, prices will drop some.
They won't, though. Mark my words. The greedy asshat oil companies won't lower their prices. There's too much money to be made. Fuck the American public, and fuck Joe Sixpack, right Exxon-Mobil?

And how much ya wanna bet that once everything DOES get straightened back out, they will be in NO HURRY to lower the prices back to what they were?

I realize you have no concept of world events or whats happening to cause rises in gas price.. did you ever think gas was a limited resource ?? Saudi Arabia is already aproaching the peak of their production limit while the US and China along with the rest of the developing world is sucking up all the oil avalible. U want low prices.. start writing to your congressmen to get a bill to push alternative sources of energy like hydrogen fuel cells.... experts already expect oil to read nearly 90 - 100 dollars a gallon.. u can bet in the next few years gas will go upwards of 5 - 6 dollars a gallon. Things only get worse from here buddy...

weird... i always thought Lyric was a guy.

You thought wrong.

And how much ya wanna bet that once everything DOES get straightened back out, they will be in NO HURRY to lower the prices back to what they were?

Possibly because they cannot?

What you are missing is that this is not due to price gouging- even in a year or two when everything is running smoothly again and production is back to where it once was, there is simply too high an oil demand and not enough oil to keep the prices down. This isn't a single-nation deal. Almost every nation is increasing demand globally, including most notably China. It might fall a bit, but realistically there's not gonig to be cheap gasoline for the forseeable future.

Yeah? Exactly what am I supposed to do?? Bring a gun to the interview, hold it to the guy's head, and MAKE him hire me?? You think I'm not fucking TRYING to get a job??

Did you ever think that it may be the hostility in your attitude that you present?

We have the third biggest city in the state, no public transportation. I go to school 20 minutes away. I guess I will shout "I have the power," jump on the back of the creature my cat turned into and ride to school.
Go to a school closer to your home. Or move to a home closer to your school. If driving is such a pain in the ass, then rearrange your life so you don't have to do it. If it's such an expense, rearrange your life so you don't have to do it. If it's not worth the trouble to do those things, then it's obviously not that big a problem for you.

i dunno, just they way they typed. I've never met a woman w/ so much hate, but i've seen guys do it.

*shrug*
Well now you have.

Go to a school closer to your home. Or move to a home closer to your school.
The college I go to is the closest one I can. My scholarship does not cover housing. I do not have the money to move into a home closer to school, I live at home with my parents. Hell, I only have cash for another few months of gas, if that.

If driving is such a pain in the ass, then rearrange your life so you don't have to do it. If it's such an expense, rearrange your life so you don't have to do it. If it's not worth the trouble to do those things, then it's obviously not that big a problem for you.
I have a better idea: you should take into account facts you know nothing about, but should assume exist, before going around making statements.

Yup, the oil folk are total wankers.

Easy solution: STOP DRIVING. Oil companies can suck it, as far as I am concerned, and I'm not about to pad their wallets any more than my heating bill already requires.

I wish I could, Bottle! I got no choice...living out in the effing boonies like I do, I got no choice but to drive. And I can't beat the rent I'm paying here, with my mom ($150 a month, all bills - including food, paid)

The only thing I pay for is clothes and my own gas and insurance, and discretionary bills, for example, my cell phone. And, of course, laundry. We have our own machines, but both of us pay into a coffee can every time we use it...so that we have money to fix it when it needs it.

Well now you have.

yep. and you prolly have the most hate i've seen in a person. .... on a lighter note, you aren't a redhead by chance are you? :P (mebbe that's where i've heard of angry women, if they were redheads....)


seriously tho. why hate the world? it's just wasted energy.

*edit*

and i'm still waiting on a response to the answer of did andrew or ivan drown 80% of a city/damage oil producing machineries....

And how much ya wanna bet that once everything DOES get straightened back out, they will be in NO HURRY to lower the prices back to what they were?

They will, because before long one of those oil companies is going to realize, "Hey, if we drop our prices, we can undercut the competition and sell more!" Simple economics.

The college I go to is the closest one I can. My scholarship does not cover housing. I do not have the money to move into a home closer to school, I live at home with my parents. Hell, I only have cash for another few months of gas, if that.

Get a job to cover more expenses, or apply for loans, or get a scholarship, or transfer to another school that would give you more support or would help you live on campus.

Or, decide that driving isn't really that much of a hastle and expense, and stop complaining about it. If it's not worth working to change, it's not worth bitching about.


I have a better idea: you should take into account facts you know nothing about, but should assume exist, before going around making statements.
I took into account the facts I think you are referring to. I simply don't agree with your conclusions. I believe that you can tell how important a problem is to you by figuring out how much you're willing to do to fix it...if you're not willing to work to fix it, then it can't be very important to you. If it's just something to bitch about, save your time and have fun instead!

much easier said than done. I already cut on my driving. I rarely go out unless i hafta. However, some ppl's jobs require that they drive.

exactly! I'm the same way. I often skip weeks of church now...just because I don't wanna burn the gas.

and it really pisses me off when I gotta go out, and burn a shitpile of gas to go to a job interview...AND THEN THEY DON'T GIVE ME THE GODDAM JOB!!

exactly! I'm the same way. I often skip weeks of church now...just because I don't wanna burn the gas.

and it really pisses me off when I gotta go out, and burn a shitpile of gas to go to a job interview...AND THEN THEY DON'T GIVE ME THE GODDAM JOB!!

yah, that blows. it really bugs me when ppl say "change your habits, move closer to work/school"


my question is... have you ever tried moving? moving sucks. shit gets lost/broken, and if you can't afford it, moving all the heavy shit yourself can hurt you.

i don't think they realize it's much more of an inconvienance to change schools/jobs/locations where you live, than it is to just bitch about the gas. besides, bitching about it makes ppl feel better.

yah, that blows. it really bugs me when ppl say "change your habits, move closer to work/school"

Sorry, but that's my opinion.


my question is... have you ever tried moving? moving sucks. shit gets lost/broken, and if you can't afford it, moving all the heavy shit yourself can hurt you.

I have moved every year for the last 6 years. I don't hire moving companies, and I've never had more than 2 other people on hand to help me. Yes, I know how hard it is.


i don't think they realize it's much more of an inconvienance to change schools/jobs/locations where you live, than it is to just bitch about the gas. besides, bitching about it makes ppl feel better.
If it makes you feel better to bitch, then that's fine I suppose. I, personally, don't think something's worth bitching about if it's not also worth working to change. If driving problems aren't a big enough problem for you to be willing to change your lifestyle, then they aren't worth bitching about. I save my bitching energy for the things that really really matter...that way, I can REALLY BITCH when the time is right! :)

virutally flat ?? for five years... obviously you didn't graduate from a reputablie college.. and if u did.. u may as well shred that diploma cause its worthless.. before you spout ignorance check your stats. Over five years the Stockmarket has rebounded significantly. And if you consider 1.30 a gallon normal get a reality check.. America has enjoyed low gas prices because of government subsides... if u didn't know.. the rest of the world already pays 5 bucks a liter.. even less then a gallon!! Get use to these prices because the vacation is over bucko. Its not the evil rich gas companies taking advantage of you but the real world catching up to u. And if your unemployed.. how bout u get out of ur mommies house and find a job like the rest of humanity and stop blaming everyone else!

1. check the Dow Average for when Clinton left office, and compare it to the Dow today. You won't see much change, either up or down, from four and a half years ago. That's a fact. Look it up for yourself, I'm not doing your homework, and you wouldn't believe me, anyway. So look it up for yourself. If you're too lazy to look it up yourself, then don't you go telling me I'm full of shit, unless you wanna do some fact-checking.

2. Guess what?? I'm unemployed. This means I have no income. How likely am I to be approved for a lease anywhere, even if I could afford it? Where, exactly, do you propose that I live, then....a ditch? A carboard box? Under a fucking bridge? Yeah, I'm sure to get a job that way, aren't I??

I hope the hell YOU never fall on hard times, and are forced to swallow YOUR pride, and give up your independence, and move back in with YOUR mom...because if you ever are, and I find out about it, I'm gonna rub your words right back in your face until it really fuckin hurts! You think I LIKE having had to move back in with Mom after ten fuckin years out on my own!?!? You are extremely hurtful, and you're lucky I'm controlling myself right now, and not saying what first comes to my mind! You figure it out, you seem like a bright boy. I'll give ya a hint...it's not polite!

Or, decide that driving isn't really that much of a hastle and expense, and stop complaining about it. If it's not worth working to change, it's not worth bitching about.
I was replying to you going "STOP DRIVING"

They will, because before long one of those oil companies is going to realize, "Hey, if we drop our prices, we can undercut the competition and sell more!" Simple economics.
I know that's how it's supposed to work but at the moment they all seem to be saying "hey people are still buying our oil, we're all making great money lets keep it that way"


Oh and to Lyric: I'm not sure how you get it but did you here about this offer;
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/

That Evil socialist Chavez! :D ;)

1. check the Dow Average for when Clinton left office, and compare it to the Dow today. You won't see much change, either up or down, from four and a half years ago. That's a fact. Look it up for yourself, I'm not doing your homework, and you wouldn't believe me, anyway. So look it up for yourself. If you're too lazy to look it up yourself, then don't you go telling me I'm full of shit, unless you wanna do some fact-checking.

ok.. so ill tell u now.. ur full of shit!!! http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/dow-long.html

U dont look at the starting and ending numbers to determine how flat the stockmarket has been.. look at the chart..from over 11,000 during clinton to as low as 7,000 after 9/11 to today back near 11,000.. that is FLAT ?

2. Guess what?? I'm unemployed. This means I have no income. How likely am I to be approved for a lease anywhere, even if I could afford it? Where, exactly, do you propose that I live, then....a ditch? A carboard box? Under a fucking bridge? Yeah, I'm sure to get a job that way, aren't I??

then get a bloody job! there are people out there working 2 or 3 part time jobs to make up for it.. thats what i do... how about you start volunteering and interning to make urself more compeditative instead of sitting at home sulking... people like you bitch about the economy all the time.. the economy simply isn't as bad as you think it is... so get out there and learn about it

I hope the hell YOU never fall on hard times, and are forced to swallow YOUR pride, and give up your independence, and move back in with YOUR mom...because if you ever are, and I find out about it, I'm gonna rub your words right back in your face until it really fuckin hurts! You think I LIKE having had to move back in with Mom after ten fuckin years out on my own!?!? You are extremely hurtful, and you're lucky I'm controlling myself right now, and not saying what first comes to my mind! You figure it out, you seem like a bright boy. I'll give ya a hint...it's not polite!

if this is control its no wonder u havn't goten a job yet... and politeness ? because you've been overflowing with curitsy thus far. if Mexicans can come over the board with nothing and make it.. you who have a college education (or so i assume) can certainly get a job whatever type it maybe and move out and stop bitching about things no one has control over! We live in a capitalist society.. welcome to the real world of supply and demand

yah, that blows. it really bugs me when ppl say "change your habits, move closer to work/school"


my question is... have you ever tried moving? moving sucks. shit gets lost/broken, and if you can't afford it, moving all the heavy shit yourself can hurt you.

i don't think they realize it's much more of an inconvienance to change schools/jobs/locations where you live, than it is to just bitch about the gas. besides, bitching about it makes ppl feel better.

No shit! Just in March, I moved 1,700 miles, from my former home in Austin, Texas...to the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania...because I could no longer manage to live on my own, and thank God Mom was willing to take me back! But I wish I coulda got HER to move down with ME, instead, because Austin is much more conducive to public transportation, etc. However, she's got sixteen years in at her company, and at nearly 60, she isn't likely to find another job.
Anyway, I drove a fifteen-foot Penske truck, towing my Toyota Tercel on a car dolly behind it...for 1,700 miles...all alone, one driver, and with my dog in the cab of the moving truck with me!

My mom stumped up the 700 bucks for the moving truck and dolly, and an additional 300 bucks for the gas (I ended up actually using $360 in gas on the trip - gas averaged about $1.89 a gallon back then)

And moving is a grand-royal bitch. Anyway, I made the entire distance, one driver...in four days. I stopped in Little Rock, Ark. my first day. I stopped in Louisville, Kentucky, my second day, and stayed with a friend...took a rest day the third day. The fourth day, I stopped in Harrisburg, PA, and then, the last day, I drove the remaining hour and a half...so that the truck-rent place would be open, and I could drop the car....otherwise, I'd not have bothered to stop in Harrisburg.

Anyway, I don't have a choice other than to live where I do. And it IS a mutually-beneficial arrangement. She's a widow, and needed help and company. I pay a small amount in rent ($150 a month) and I do a lot of the cooking and cleaning and yardwork right now, since I'm unemployed. I converted the upstairs into a studio apartment for myself, and my mom has the downstairs, so, if we ever get on each other's nerves (happens once in a while) I can go upstairs, and she can stay down, until we cool off. Mostly we get along great.

I planned on moving in with Mom, anyway, when she retired, because I didn't want her to be alone, anymore, at that point. But that was to be seven years from now. And then it woulda been by choice, not economic force.

Anyway, way off topic, but I'll close this by saying there's no way in hell I'm moving back out on my own, at this point. for what? so I can move back in in a couple more years when my mom does retire? That's just stupid. Might as well stay here now.

No shit! Just in March, I moved 1,700 miles, from my former home in Austin, Texas...to the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania...because I could no longer manage to live on my own, and thank God Mom was willing to take me back! But I wish I coulda got HER to move down with ME, instead, because Austin is much more conducive to public transportation, etc. However, she's got sixteen years in at her company, and at nearly 60, she isn't likely to find another job.
Anyway, I drove a fifteen-foot Penske truck, towing my Toyota Tercel on a car dolly behind it...for 1,700 miles...all alone, one driver, and with my dog in the cab of the moving truck with me!

^snipe^



you see what the problem is... fiscal disipline... almost no one has it in this country and its their own faults.. learn to manage money and these kind of hardships are far fewer ... And you live in pennsylvania for gods sake... try living in New York with the highest property taxes in the country! let alone soaring energy costs and such. What you pay is pennies... PENNIES!!!

I know that's how it's supposed to work but at the moment they all seem to be saying "hey people are still buying our oil, we're all making great money lets keep it that way"

I'm well aware of what they're doing right now. I was responding to Lyric's baseless concern that they'd keep prices high once we're producing enough gasoline to meet demand again.

Furthermore, the fact that local shortages are starting to crop up suggests to me that they could raise prices even higher and continue increasing their profits. I'd say they've shown some restraint.

ok.. so ill tell u now.. ur full of shit!!! http://www.the-privateer.com/chart/dow-long.html

U dont look at the starting and ending numbers to determine how flat the stockmarket has been.. look at the chart..from over 11,000 during clinton to as low as 7,000 after 9/11 to today back near 11,000.. that is FLAT ?


You made the argument that the stock market is going up over time. I pointed out the fact that it hasn't gone UP jack-shit, in four and a half years...that compared to four and a half years ago...to right now...it's flat! Meaning, no net gain/loss from four and a half years ago. That wasn't the case under Clinton, was it?

And the NASDAQ...well, there's a whole 'nother ball o wax for ya, sonce it WAS over 5,000...and today it's hovering near 2,000!!!

you see what the problem is... fiscal disipline... almost no one has it in this country and its their own faults.. learn to manage money and these kind of hardships are far fewer ... And you live in pennsylvania for gods sake... try living in New York with the highest property taxes in the country! let alone soaring energy costs and such. What you pay is pennies... PENNIES!!!

Yep. And that is what employers out here PAY...pennies.
You gotta drive into Jersey if you want to make decent money. Which I'm more than willing to do. But not if gas prices are gonna keep doubling every damn year, and my wages aren't gonna go up to compensate!

I know that's how it's supposed to work but at the moment they all seem to be saying "hey people are still buying our oil, we're all making great money lets keep it that way"


Oh and to Lyric: I'm not sure how you get it but did you here about this offer;
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/23/chavez.gasoline.reut/

That Evil socialist Chavez! :D ;)

Sweet! Castro and Chavez are all right! I KNEW there was a reason I'm a Socialist and a leftist! And YES, by the way, folks, I AM a Socialist. I hope Chavez and Castro find a way to manage this one! I think I'll start buying my gas at Citgo. We have a couple of Citgo stations not too far from where I live.

Only problem is...right now, I've not seen any noticeable difference in price between Citgo and other places.

I'm seeing a lot of excuses and a lot of assumptions and not a lot of reasons. You made the bed, now you have to sleep in it.

Expect Katrina to cause a short-term tanking of the US economy. This type of damage is going to be unrecoverable for months.

I'm glad to hear people crying about gas prices too. At least you can get gas; there is little to none left in Georgia.

When you start getting charged $4, $5, even $6 dollars a gallon for fuel, then you can complain. Until then, count yourself among the fortunate.

You made the argument that the stock market is going up over time. I pointed out the fact that it hasn't gone UP jack-shit, in four and a half years...that compared to four and a half years ago...to right now...it's flat! Meaning, no net gain/loss from four and a half years ago. That wasn't the case under Clinton, was it?

And the NASDAQ...well, there's a whole 'nother ball o wax for ya, sonce it WAS over 5,000...and today it's hovering near 2,000!!!

omg.. dont even try to atribute the economys bubble to clinton.. when do u think all the corporate fruad that further sent us into recession happend ? thats right.. under clinton... and given the fact that in 2000 the stockmarket was inflated and we went into recession and then came back over 3000 points in the stockmarket in just the past 3 years.. i woudln't exactly say its FLAT ! and still if you look at the trend over time... the stockmarket has continually increased in value.. not decreased. so you are wrong all the way around!

and again.. the NASDAQ was INFLATED!! in that it wasn't really worth 5000 thats why it crashed to begin with.

Sweet! Castro and Chavez are all right! I KNEW there was a reason I'm a Socialist and a leftist! And YES, by the way, folks, I AM a Socialist. I hope Chavez and Castro find a way to manage this one! I think I'll start buying my gas at Citgo. We have a couple of Citgo stations not too far from where I live.

Only problem is...right now, I've not seen any noticeable difference in price between Citgo and other places.

never mind the fact that if you voiced this kind of opinion against their governments.. you'd be thrown in jail never to be heard of again... oh the joys of socialism!

i find it funny how everyone bitches of american facisim.. but its the socialist nations imprisioning those people who speak out against the government... meanwhile the american government sucks it up!

Fine and dandy. Thanks for the Economics 101. So tell us, O Great Swami Copiosa...why do they wait six weeks to LOWER the fucking prices?!?!

And why is that okay? Why is it only okay for Joe and Jane Sixpack to take it on the chin, and never the big oil companies?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9561864&postcount=135
1. check the Dow Average for when Clinton left office, and compare it to the Dow today. You won't see much change, either up or down, from four and a half years ago. That's a fact. Look it up for yourself, I'm not doing your homework, and you wouldn't believe me, anyway. So look it up for yourself. If you're too lazy to look it up yourself, then don't you go telling me I'm full of shit, unless you wanna do some fact-checking.

2. Guess what?? I'm unemployed. This means I have no income. How likely am I to be approved for a lease anywhere, even if I could afford it? Where, exactly, do you propose that I live, then....a ditch? A carboard box? Under a fucking bridge? Yeah, I'm sure to get a job that way, aren't I??

I hope the hell YOU never fall on hard times, and are forced to swallow YOUR pride, and give up your independence, and move back in with YOUR mom...because if you ever are, and I find out about it, I'm gonna rub your words right back in your face until it really fuckin hurts! You think I LIKE having had to move back in with Mom after ten fuckin years out on my own!?!? You are extremely hurtful, and you're lucky I'm controlling myself right now, and not saying what first comes to my mind! You figure it out, you seem like a bright boy. I'll give ya a hint...it's not polite!

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9561686&postcount=120
They won't, though. Mark my words. The greedy asshat oil companies won't lower their prices. There's too much money to be made. Fuck the American public, and fuck Joe Sixpack, right Exxon-Mobil?

I've warned you before about your temper, repeatedly, and you haven't taken any of my advice whatsoever. These posts, along with many others that I've seen across General has given me more than sufficient evidence.
Lyric: Official Warning for Flaming

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9561864&postcount=135


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9561643&postcount=117


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9561686&postcount=120


I've warned you before about your temper, repeatedly, and you haven't taken any of my advice whatsoever. These posts, along with many others that I've seen across General has given me more than sufficient evidence.
Lyric: Official Warning for Flaming


Post 117 is not my post. That is what someone ELSE posted in response to me. And, while I'm not going to argue with you...i'd like to know exactly where I flamed anybody. cussing isn't flaming, that I know of, or everyone's guilty of it. Flaming, as I understand it, is when you directly attack another NS player, on the forums. Flamebaiting is when you invite someone to attack by posting stuff you know is going to cause them to react.

anyway, flat-out cussing, as far as I'm aware...is not flaming. I plead guilty as charged to excessive cussing, but that is the way I get when I get mad. I cuss a lot. I know that. Now, CUSSING, itself...or excessinve cussing...may be against the rules, I'm not sure...but it is NOT flaming...is it?

that said, Warning is noted. However, I feel that if any warning is even deserved here, it is being issued for the wrong reason, and I'd like to note for the record that post 117 is NOT MY POST.

never mind the fact that if you voiced this kind of opinion against their governments.. you'd be thrown in jail never to be heard of again... oh the joys of socialism!

i find it funny how everyone bitches of american facisim.. but its the socialist nations imprisioning those people who speak out against the government... meanwhile the american government sucks it up!
In Venezuela they aren't. Lyric never said she was an authoritarian socialist, she in fact said a lefist and a socialist.
(Note: While I disagree with full socialism, I'm a social democrat myself (or is it democratic socialist? I always confuse the two anyway I'm the one which keeps capitalism.

My bad, that isnt yours, but the same point remains. Excessive cursing generally leads to flaming, and many posts of yours have been borderline.

virutally flat ?? for five years... obviously you didn't graduate from a reputablie college.. and if u did.. u may as well shred that diploma cause its worthless.. before you spout ignorance check your stats. Over five years the Stockmarket has rebounded significantly. And if you consider 1.30 a gallon normal get a reality check.. America has enjoyed low gas prices because of government subsides... if u didn't know.. the rest of the world already pays 5 bucks a liter.. even less then a gallon!! Get use to these prices because the vacation is over bucko. Its not the evil rich gas companies taking advantage of you but the real world catching up to u. And if your unemployed.. how bout u get out of ur mommies house and find a job like the rest of humanity and stop blaming everyone else!


You can quit it with the baiting, now.
Invidentias: Official Warning for Flamebaiting

Down with the capitalist pig-dogs! They're money-hungry and are taking advantage of a natural disaster. Our prayers and thoughts should be directed towards the victims and survivors not making money. I despise the American burgeoise :headbang:

Down with the capitalist pig-dogs! They're money-hungry and are taking advantage of a natural disaster. Our prayers and thoughts should be directed towards the victims and survivors not making money. I despise the American burgeoise :headbang:

Knock off the trolling, Michaelic France.

Has anyone else realized that Bush opening up the petroleum reserves doesn't help?

That's not refined oil.

The problem is in the refineries.

:headbang:

Has anyone else realized that Bush opening up the petroleum reserves doesn't help?

That's not refined oil.

The problem is in the refineries.

:headbang:

Several of these refineries are coming back on line in the next few days...

Releasing these petroleum reserves makes up for extraction shortfalls from the gulf.

I say we start looking at oil sands in Alberta more closely now.

Unfortunately, the EPA has done a lot to harm our society. :mad:

I agree with you there. THey have done far more to hurt us than they have in helping us.

Hey...that's the rest of the world, and I quite frankly don't give a shit! We're used to what we are used to...we have made our budgets based on what we are used to...and now, all of a sudden, in the past two years, gasoline prices have more than DOUBLED...which is killing our budgets!!

Welcome to life Lyric. About time you realize that not everything can go your way.

Our wages are not going up to compensate us for the extra cost of commuting.

Alwell. Tough luck.

Taxi drivers and airlines, they get to charge "fuel surcharges" when gas prices go up like this. Workers can't very well charge their employers a "feul surcharge" when the cost of our daily commute over doubles in less than a year...no, we gotta EAT that...and we have to cut our budgets and "do without" somewhere else, and that just ain't fair!

Tough. Life isn't fair. You really should've learned that lesson by now.

That may well be, Melkor, and I'm not disputing that....BUT THIS SHARP INCREASE IS BREAKING THE BACK OF OUR BUDGETS!!

Then adjust your budgets accordingly. Simple as that.

I agree with you there. THey have done far more to hurt us than they have in helping us.

Damnit, I hate agreeing with you.

Yeah? Then why didn't Andrew or Ivan see a similar spike...those hurricanes were both very, very strong, and went thru the Gulf, too.

Take alook where Ivan and Andrew hit then take alook where Katrina hit. Katrina plowed into an area where most of our refineries were at. Andrew and Ivan didn't.

Nice fuckin' try. The oil companies are gouging.

No they aren't.

It isn't like we haven't seen CAT 4 or CAT 5 hurricanes in the Gulf before. No excuse for the spike we're seeing. NONE.

Depending on where a Hurricane actually hits, it does have an effect. Learn something about Geography and Meteorology before spouting off your big mouth.

Take alook where Ivan and Andrew hit then take alook where Katrina hit. Katrina plowed into an area where most of our refineries were at. Andrew and Ivan didn't.

Actually partially right. You are right about the fact that refineries were hit (but all in all, the damage seems to be limited from assessment and they only need to be powered back online).. however, Ivan hit pipelines knocking out production but not refineries.

No they aren't.


Yep.

Individual gas station owners are doing that.

Of course you wouldn't see anything like price gouging, Mr. "I-Love-Big-Business-Fuck-The-Average-Joe" Republican.

Excuse me, but at least I know why we are seeing gas prices they way they are. Your to blind and stupid to relize that our 2nd busiest port is gone. Oil refineries gone. Oil platforms gone.

All due to ONE DAMN STORM!!!

Why don't you actually study a problem before jumping to your brainwashed conclusions?

*note* sorry if i either flamed or flamebaited but really, she really does need to put her hatred aside.

They won't, though. Mark my words. The greedy asshat oil companies won't lower their prices. There's too much money to be made. Fuck the American public, and fuck Joe Sixpack, right Exxon-Mobil?

I'll mark your words and bet you that gas will fall below 3.00 a gallon in those places that is already over 3.00! Gas prices won't drop right away but they will drop some. Not to the levels seen before but they will drop some. How much? I don't know.

I'll mark your words and bet you that gas will fall below 3.00 a gallon in those places that is already over 3.00! Gas prices won't drop right away but they will drop some. Not to the levels seen before but they will drop some. How much? I don't know.

After labor day, this will be apparent. I predict $2.55-$2.75 in my area after Labor Day, because demand will fall substantially.

Also one thing, the construction industry will grow substantially in the next few months as people rebuild. I think the construction industry will be a pretty hot sector, as it helps people rebuild their homes.

Excuse me, but at least I know why we are seeing gas prices they way they are. Your to blind and stupid to relize that our 2nd busiest port is gone. Oil refineries gone. Oil platforms gone.

All due to ONE DAMN STORM!!!

Why don't you actually study a problem before jumping to your brainwashed conclusions?

*note* sorry if i either flamed or flamebaited but really, she really does need to put her hatred aside.

Apologizing for it doesn't redeem you. Don't do it again.

You made the argument that the stock market is going up over time. I pointed out the fact that it hasn't gone UP jack-shit, in four and a half years...that compared to four and a half years ago...to right now...it's flat! Meaning, no net gain/loss from four and a half years ago. That wasn't the case under Clinton, was it?

Are you really that dunse that you can't figure out that it hit an altime low then is near its altime highs? Yes I can see that you are. Why don't you actually study economics as well as what the stock market is really doing before you go off on a tangent on something you know nothing about it?

And the NASDAQ...well, there's a whole 'nother ball o wax for ya, sonce it WAS over 5,000...and today it's hovering near 2,000!!!

There goes the tech bubble that was in the Nasdaq. That's right Lyric! The tech bubble was in Nasdaq. That was why it was at 5000. When it burst under Clinton, down goes the stocks and we lost jobs because of it.

After labor day, this will be apparent. I predict $2.55-$2.75 in my area after Labor Day, because demand will fall substantially.

Also one thing, the construction industry will grow substantially in the next few months as people rebuild. I think the construction industry will be a pretty hot sector, as it helps people rebuild their homes.

I will back you up here. Maybe I should invest in Home Depo and Lowes stocks :D

Apologizing for it doesn't redeem you. Don't do it again.

My apologisese!

I shouldn't let my anger get the best of me!

I will back you up here. Maybe I should invest in Home Depo and Lowes stocks :D

Oh definitely. There is no question about this assessment. I'd dump everything in construction stocks right now.

A tidbit I heard from the news:

More people are trading their SUVS in for small cars. This is not isolated, but huge. This . Congrats, people are growing some sense. Especially the Prius for one.

Entergy is also saying most of the refineries will be online in 7-10 days (not all, but most). That's what I've seen on the news...

You can quit it with the baiting, now.
Invidentias: Official Warning for Flamebaiting

Thank you. That is the Post 117 I referred to before, in my response to your warning. Now, if that alone, was the basis for warning me...I'd like my warning retracted. Because I do not believe that excessive cussing can be considered "flaming." Maybe there is a separate rule against excessive cussing, I dunno. But to be warned for flaming, I feel is not accurate in my case. Unless you can point out where I was flaming. again, not gonna argue with you, because mere players can never win an argument with a Mod, I know that well enough, but, if I am to be warned, I'd at least like it to be for the right reason, and to know exactly what I actually did that caused me to be warned. Otherwise, the warning serves no purpose.

Welcome to life Lyric. About time you realize that not everything can go your way.



Alwell. Tough luck.



Tough. Life isn't fair. You really should've learned that lesson by now.

Oh, no...life is always fair to the rich. just not to the poor. If someone don't finally put their foot down the big companies will keep grabbing and grabbing and grabbing. We need to collectively put our foot down and say NO to price-gouging.

Then adjust your budgets accordingly. Simple as that.

There's no ROOM left TO adjust. what, would you have average to poor Americans just starve? You probably wouldn't care. I know Bush don't.

Take alook where Ivan and Andrew hit then take alook where Katrina hit. Katrina plowed into an area where most of our refineries were at. Andrew and Ivan didn't.



No they aren't.



Depending on where a Hurricane actually hits, it does have an effect. Learn something about Geography and Meteorology before spouting off your big mouth.

How about you learn about something called the milk of human kindness??

Actually partially right. You are right about the fact that refineries were hit (but all in all, the damage seems to be limited from assessment and they only need to be powered back online).. however, Ivan hit pipelines knocking out production but not refineries.



Yep.

Individual gas station owners are doing that.

thanks for the meager support, Mesa. Gas station owners ARE engaging in gouging right now.

I'll mark your words and bet you that gas will fall below 3.00 a gallon in those places that is already over 3.00! Gas prices won't drop right away but they will drop some. Not to the levels seen before but they will drop some. How much? I don't know.

Well, if things are back to 100 percent, and the price doesn't go ALL THE WAY BACK TO WHAT IT WAS then someone is profiteering.

Oh, no...life is always fair to the rich. just not to the poor. If someone don't finally put their foot down the big companies will keep grabbing and grabbing and grabbing. We need to collectively put our foot down and say NO to price-gouging.

Gotta prove it first.

In this case, Demand will outstrip supply thus prices go up. You do understand ecnomics right?

If those refineries haven't gone down as well as the oilplatforms in the Gulf being destroyed. If our 2nd busies port isn't under water, then you might have a case.

As of right now, you don't. Go study economics some more.

There's no ROOM left TO adjust. what, would you have average to poor Americans just starve? You probably wouldn't care. I know Bush don't.

Oh grow up! Do you know I'm leaving paycheck to paycheck? I have to watch what I buy to make sure I have money to get me till my next paycheck. I get paid just over minimum wage due to my position and that's including a 5 cent payraise. I'm making just over 6 bucks an hour. I walk everywhere here on campus. I don't drive. I take the bus to the mall when I want (though that is free! Gotta love university ids :D)

I have to make choices. If that means I can't buy the best then so be it.

How about you learn about something called the milk of human kindness??

Why don't you learn the fine art of diplomacy as well as being more polite?

Well, if things are back to 100 percent, and the price doesn't go ALL THE WAY BACK TO WHAT IT WAS then someone is profiteering.

You can't be that naive. Prices won't fall all the way back to where there is. If you believe that then there's a beach for sail in Miami.

There's no ROOM left TO adjust. what, would you have average to poor Americans just starve? You probably wouldn't care. I know Bush don't.

There's always room. For example:

Do you have a TV?

You don't need that. Sell it for gas money.

You obviously have a computer. You don't need that either. Sell it, and you can save on your internet bill, too. Less electricity if you get rid of both, too.

Sure, it might blow a bit for connections to things, but hey, you can catch up at work, right? Hear it from someone else, go somewhere instead of doing it online.

Do you buy brand name food?

You don't need the brand name, either... generic stuff can be just as good and even cheaper.

There are hundreds of things you probably have and pay for that you don't need... budget them out for things that you do need.

Until then, stop whining about how you can't afford other things.

Can you imagine a Depression caused by skyrocketing fuel prices...and how the hell does ANYONE pull themselves off the economic shit heap in such circumstances, once they find themselves there?

you go to war to fight for more oil, the winner then looking out for the next big field to butcher their way into.

it's an absolutely brilliant plan, isn't it?

There's always room. For example:

Do you have a TV?

You don't need that. Sell it for gas money.

You obviously have a computer. You don't need that either. Sell it, and you can save on your internet bill, too. Less electricity if you get rid of both, too.

Sure, it might blow a bit for connections to things, but hey, you can catch up at work, right? Hear it from someone else, go somewhere instead of doing it online.

Do you buy brand name food?

You don't need the brand name, either... generic stuff can be just as good and even cheaper.

There are hundreds of things you probably have and pay for that you don't need... budget them out for things that you do need.

Until then, stop whining about how you can't afford other things.


he's absolutely right, you know. things that are enjoyable? you don't need those. they don't increase your labour efficiency, so they are of no value.

your apartment? what do you NEED that for? you should just move right into work. this would also save a lot of time on transportation, allowing you to work longer hours.

he's absolutely right, you know. things that are enjoyable? you don't need those. they don't increase your labour efficiency, so they are of no value.

your apartment? what do you NEED that for? you should just move right into work. this would also save a lot of time on transportation, allowing you to work longer hours.

I'm a she, for future refrence :p

You can't be that naive. Prices won't fall all the way back to where there is. If you believe that then there's a beach for sail in Miami.

So then someone is obviously gouging and profiteering, and taking advantage of a situation.

If, when we get back to 100 percent of where we were...and the prices do not go back down to exactly where they were before Katrina...then someone is profiteering at the expense of Joe Sixpack.

And, as you may well have figured out by now about me...NOTHING PISSES ME OFF MORE THAN RICH PEOPLE GETTING RICHER THRU THE DETRIMENT OF POOR PEOPLE.

If ya can get rich while NOT HURTING the poor, more power to ya. But if a corporation gets rich off the backs of hard working average and poor Americans, then they suck. and I mean, literally, they suck. Because they are vampires, sucking out our life blood for the profit of their white-collar stockholders who don't work worth a damn...just sit on their ass and collect dividends while the poor working schlump takes it on the chin once again. which is why I hate capitalism.

There's always room. For example:

Do you have a TV?

You don't need that. Sell it for gas money.

You obviously have a computer. You don't need that either. Sell it, and you can save on your internet bill, too. Less electricity if you get rid of both, too.

Sure, it might blow a bit for connections to things, but hey, you can catch up at work, right? Hear it from someone else, go somewhere instead of doing it online.

Do you buy brand name food?

You don't need the brand name, either... generic stuff can be just as good and even cheaper.

There are hundreds of things you probably have and pay for that you don't need... budget them out for things that you do need.

Until then, stop whining about how you can't afford other things.
Why the hell should I HAVE to give up those things, just to fatten Exxon-Mobil's bottom line?

he's absolutely right, you know. things that are enjoyable? you don't need those. they don't increase your labour efficiency, so they are of no value.

your apartment? what do you NEED that for? you should just move right into work. this would also save a lot of time on transportation, allowing you to work longer hours.

Beautiful. Thanks for making my point.

Why the hell should I HAVE to give up those things, just to fatten Exxon-Mobil's bottom line?

Ah, so it's not that you don't have the means to get the money, it's that you just want everything dropped so you, an unemployed person, may have luxuries and afford everything else you want.

I'm 17 and I can see that's bullshit. The world doesn't work that way.

Beautiful. Thanks for making my point.


housing is far different then TV, a computer, cable, gaming systems, or any other luxury.

Do you need the latter to survive? Absolutely not.
Does it make it better? Surely.

So then someone is obviously gouging and profiteering, and taking advantage of a situation.

Once again, your ignoring basic Economics of Supply and Demand. When demand is higher than supply, prices go up! When Supply is higher than demand, prices go down.

Oil supply is lower than oil demand. Therefore, oil prices will go up.

If, when we get back to 100 percent of where we were...and the prices do not go back down to exactly where they were before Katrina...then someone is profiteering at the expense of Joe Sixpack.

Supply and demand drive most of the market. Didn't you learn this in school?

And, as you may well have figured out by now about me...NOTHING PISSES ME OFF MORE THAN RICH PEOPLE GETTING RICHER THRU THE DETRIMENT OF POOR PEOPLE.

No wonder you haven't found a job yet. Don't you know how to be polite and diplomatic?

he's absolutely right, you know. things that are enjoyable? you don't need those. they don't increase your labour efficiency, so they are of no value.

your apartment? what do you NEED that for? you should just move right into work. this would also save a lot of time on transportation, allowing you to work longer hours.well, I don't have Cable, I have used VCR's and use my PS2 as a DVD player also, My refridgerator is almost empty, My car is gathering dust because Gas here is too high, So I use public transportation. I don't have internet connection at home, I use the ones at school/work. I have no phone line, I use my cell phone for that.

I compare shop and bargin hunt, I also clip coupons and got rid of all but one of my Credit Cards, that one I've asked the bank to lower the limit to reduce my spending.

I pick up hobbies that will keep me occupied with little cash outflow and you know what? I'm happy and saving money for things that really count.

Ah, so it's not that you don't have the means to get the money, it's that you just want everything dropped so you, an unemployed person, may have luxuries and afford everything else you want.

I'm 17 and I can see that's bullshit. The world doesn't work that way.

A 17yo telling a fully grown woman that she's spouting BS? Priceless.

Look, Lyric, if you're just going to treat the entire field of economics like it doesn't exist, what's the point of this discussion?

A 17yo telling a fully grown woman that she's spouting BS? Priceless.

Age doesn't make you know everything. I don't claim to know everything... I KNOW I don't. I'm willing to risk my life that the oldest person doesn't know eveyrthing either.

Age doesn't make you know everything. I don't claim to know everything... I KNOW I don't. I'm willing to risk my life that the oldest person doesn't know eveyrthing either.

I don't know everything either and apparently she knows nothing in regards to economics. I just found it funny that you told her that what she was saying was BS.

Thank you. That is the Post 117 I referred to before, in my response to your warning. Now, if that alone, was the basis for warning me...I'd like my warning retracted. Because I do not believe that excessive cussing can be considered "flaming." Maybe there is a separate rule against excessive cussing, I dunno. But to be warned for flaming, I feel is not accurate in my case. Unless you can point out where I was flaming. again, not gonna argue with you, because mere players can never win an argument with a Mod, I know that well enough, but, if I am to be warned, I'd at least like it to be for the right reason, and to know exactly what I actually did that caused me to be warned. Otherwise, the warning serves no purpose.

That post, when taken out, did not add to the fact that you received a warning. You've received many unofficial warnings to watch your tone, and to calm down before you post. You haven't done any. You received a warning for multiple (and I do mean a lot) borderline flames. If you'd like me to get links, I will.

Look, Lyric, if you're just going to treat the entire field of economics like it doesn't exist, what's the point of this discussion?

So she can bad mouth big business and let us all know that she is unemployed! Something she brings up in every thread she is in.

That post, when taken out, did not add to the fact that you received a warning. You've received many unofficial warnings to watch your tone, and to calm down before you post. You haven't done any. You received a warning for multiple (and I do mean a lot) borderline flames. If you'd like me to get links, I will.

I don't need you to do that. I just wanted to know for precisely what I was being warned. I wanted to know if excessive cussing was it...or did I actually flame someone. Obviously, in the case examples you provided on the thread, the answer is no...but that they were BORDERLINE flames. I can accept that. I just wanted to know exactly what I'd done, since, in your orignal post warning me, you attributed to me a post that was not mine...and you later warned the guy who actually made the post you originally attributed to me.

Not trying to pick a nit or give you a hard time, but, I wanted some clarification. You have provided that, the warning is noted.

Have a nice day.

Bite the hand that feeds me?!?!? My ass!! More like bite the hand that is stealing the food out of my mouth!!

If I didn't live at home with my mom, I'd literally be in a position to have to choose whether to eat, or to fill up the car so I could go to work!
You do realize that the price of a gallon of gas is around equal to that of a gallon of milk right? That's really not that expensive.

So she can bad mouth big business and let us all know that she is unemployed! Something she brings up in every thread she is in.

Better than you always running to big business's defense!! Hell, to hear you, I'd think you were a CEO of one of these mega-corporations, because, in your world, they can NEVER do wrong, can they?

Are you really that dunse that you can't figure out that it hit an altime low then is near its altime highs? Yes I can see that you are. Why don't you actually study economics as well as what the stock market is really doing before you go off on a tangent on something you know nothing about it?



There goes the tech bubble that was in the Nasdaq. That's right Lyric! The tech bubble was in Nasdaq. That was why it was at 5000. When it burst under Clinton, down goes the stocks and we lost jobs because of it.

I will assume that while I posted my warning, Corneliu was typing this up; however, that still doesn't give him room to call anyone dense. It isn't enough to get an official warning, but next time, it will be.

Both of you need to lay off each other.

You do realize that the price of a gallon of gas is around equal to that of a gallon of milk right? That's really not that expensive.

It is when you consider that the price of milk...which is usually part of the average person's budget...hasn't DOUBLED in the past year! Can you say that for gasoline? Didn't think so! Because gasoline HAS doubled in the past year.

If the price of milk doubled in one year, I'd be pissing about milk prices, too, bet your butt I would be!

You do realize that the price of a gallon of gas is around equal to that of a gallon of milk right? That's really not that expensive.

This is true, but you get more utility from a gallon of milk than from a gallon of gas. A gallon of milk will last me two or three days. A gallon of gas won't even get me downtown and back.

Better than you always running to big business's defense!! Hell, to hear you, I'd think you were a CEO of one of these mega-corporations, because, in your world, they can NEVER do wrong, can they?

I'm actually a 22 yo college student, studying Political Science and History and working for $6.05 as an Intramural supervisor. I am also going to be running the scoreboard clock for Field Hockey games and will be getting paid for that too.

I have to make decisions everyday regarding the money I have currently and the money I will be getting from my paycheck that I live day to day on.

I know about fiscal responsibility. Apparently you don't.

housing is far different then TV, a computer, cable, gaming systems, or any other luxury.

Do you need the latter to survive? Absolutely not.
Does it make it better? Surely.

I don't own a TV. and, since I already OWN the computer, bought and paid for...WHY THE HELL SHOULD I HAVE TO SELL IT TO FEED EXXON-MOBIL'S GREED?!!?

Besides, my computer is about five years old, not like I'd get much for it...maybe one tankful.

I don't know everything either and apparently she knows nothing in regards to economics. I just found it funny that you told her that what she was saying was BS.

Why?

because I'm sitting here with a computer?

I paid for it myself over 3 years... during which I had no money and was able to buy NOTHING without accepting charity (which i don't do for personal reasons) from my parents.

Or some other reason I'm just not getting?

I will assume that while I posted my warning, Corneliu was typing this up; however, that still doesn't give him room to call anyone dense. It isn't enough to get an official warning, but next time, it will be.

Both of you need to lay off each other.

Sorry! Her hatred is most defintely getting to me. Not to mention her refusal to acknowledge basic economics doesn't help either.

I'm actually a 22 yo college student, studying Political Science and History and working for $6.05 as an Intramural supervisor. I am also going to be running the scoreboard clock for Field Hockey games and will be getting paid for that too.

I have to make decisions everyday regarding the money I have currently and the money I will be getting from my paycheck that I live day to day on.

I know about fiscal responsibility. Apparently you don't.

You still didn't answer my question, did you? Try looking at the bolded print this time..

It is my opinion that...in your world, mega-corporations can NEVER do anything wrong, can they??

Now how about you answer the question?

Sorry! Her hatred is most defintely getting to me. Not to mention her refusal to acknowledge basic economics doesn't help either.
And your unwavering defense of huge mega-corporations is most definitely getting to ME!!!

I don't own a TV. and, since I already OWN the computer, bought and paid for...WHY THE HELL SHOULD I HAVE TO SELL IT TO FEED EXXON-MOBIL'S GREED?!!?

Besides, my computer is about five years old, not like I'd get much for it...maybe one tankful.
then sell your car and buy a bike, or take public transportation like buses or trains.

Don't feed Exxon-Mobil one more dollar of your hard earned cash. using a bike you also get exercise and also help cut down on pollutants.

Get together with classmates/co workers and carpool. spilt the costs, if you're hurting, then chances are they are to. and spilting the gas money can go a long way.

A 17yo telling a fully grown woman that she's spouting BS? Priceless.

FLAMEBAIT!!

Better than you always running to big business's defense!! Hell, to hear you, I'd think you were a CEO of one of these mega-corporations, because, in your world, they can NEVER do wrong, can they?

The problem is that you're attacking these businesses with little understanding of how their decisions actually get made. I haven't personally seen other instances of Corneliu defending big business, but in this case he's right. The higher prices are a natural result of the loss of 20-25% of our refining capacity, not a nefarious plot by the oil companies to screw the poor with a branding iron.

FLAMEBAIT!!


...that was directed at me and really, I didn't find it all that offensive.

It's how the world works, ne? Until you're about 21, you don't know much. :P

editted to up the age a bit.

It is when you consider that the price of milk...which is usually part of the average person's budget...hasn't DOUBLED in the past year! Can you say that for gasoline? Didn't think so! Because gasoline HAS doubled in the past year.

If the price of milk doubled in one year, I'd be pissing about milk prices, too, bet your butt I would be!
Assume half the cows in the united states died. Same damned thing would happen.

You still didn't answer my question, did you? Try looking at the bolded print this time..

It is my opinion that...in your world, mega-corporations can NEVER do anything wrong, can they??

Now how about you answer the question?

Yes they can do wrong. However, I don't go around blaming them for everything under the sun as you do. Unlike you, I do know the causes of how oil goes up. Sometimes its speculators, other times its political events in nations and with others, natural disasters.

This is true, but you get more utility from a gallon of milk than from a gallon of gas. A gallon of milk will last me two or three days. A gallon of gas won't even get me downtown and back.
What do you drive?

then sell your car and buy a bike, or take public transportation like buses or trains.

Don't feed Exxon-Mobil one more dollar of your hard earned cash. using a bike you also get exercise and also help cut down on pollutants.

Get together with classmates/co workers and carpool. spilt the costs, if you're hurting, then chances are they are to. and spilting the gas money can go a long way.
Great answer!! You assume I live in a city, don't you?
Like to see you live where I live and get ANYWHERE useful on a bike!! and public transportation, forget it. Closest public transportation is about 20 miles away.
Read My Lips...I LIVE IN A RURAL AREA!!!

And your unwavering defense of huge mega-corporations is most definitely getting to ME!!!

I defend them because in this case, they are innocent of what is happening with the gas prices.

The problem is that you're attacking these businesses with little understanding of how their decisions actually get made. I haven't personally seen other instances of Corneliu defending big business, but in this case he's right. The higher prices are a natural result of the loss of 20-25% of our refining capacity, not a nefarious plot by the oil companies to screw the poor with a branding iron.

That so? then why does even Corny admit that, when things get back to 100 percent, the price will not drop all the way back to what it was?!?!

What do you call that, if not screwing the poor with a branding iron?

Because that is what I call it.

The problem is that you're attacking these businesses with little understanding of how their decisions actually get made. I haven't personally seen other instances of Corneliu defending big business, but in this case he's right. The higher prices are a natural result of the loss of 20-25% of our refining capacity, not a nefarious plot by the oil companies to screw the poor with a branding iron.

Thank you! I'm so glad that you know about the basics of economics.

...that was directed at me and really, I didn't find it all that offensive.

It's how the world works, ne? Until you're about 21, you don't know much. :P

editted to up the age a bit.

I don't care WHO it was directed at. It referred to me...and he knew it would piss me off...hence, it's flamebait.

What do you drive?

The car I use most often? I couldn't tell you how many miles to the gallon it gets, considering I rarely drive at all. At the moment I'm home for the summer, and when I'm at school (in Chicago) I take public transportation everywhere I go. Here, I'm about 20 miles from downtown Austin, so I probably wouldn't be able to get there and back on a single gallon in anything short of a hybrid.

Assume half the cows in the united states died. Same damned thing would happen.

Well, half the cows didn't die, did they? And I'd expect that when the cattle herd was back to what it had been, milk prices would go back to what they were, because, if they didn't, then the consumer is getting screwed with a branding iron.

Thank you! I'm so glad that you know about the basics of economics.

Lyric has a point about the prices not dropping though. When has the price of oil ever dropped after a disaster was cleared up? Come to think of it, I've never seen the price of oil drop ever.

What do you drive?

Me, I drive a ten year old Toyota Tercel that gets 38 MPG.

Don't you get it?? It's the PRINCIPLE of the thing that is pissing me off!!

Because I know, and Corny even admits...that when production is back at 100 percent...the price won't go back to what it was...meaning someone is screwing us. Someone is getting rich off us, and nothing in the world pisses me off more than that! Remember, I AM A SOCIALIST!!

Great answer!! You assume I live in a city, don't you?
Like to see you live where I live and get ANYWHERE useful on a bike!! and public transportation, forget it. Closest public transportation is about 20 miles away.
Read My Lips...I LIVE IN A RURAL AREA!!!
So did I. I got around on my Bike, or I walked. Buses, they're not on the Island I am on (unless you count those Tour Buses that don't stop for normal commuters.) So I biked or Walked to get anywhere. Now I'm in a city with a job and guess what... I still use buses, bikes or walk wherever I need to go.

and for your Pocketbook knowledge, on an Island, everything has to be shipped in. so you add a percentage to everything you buy and you're close to what I have to pay. Especially since there is only ONE shipping company that can ship anything from the Mainland to Hawaii. (They own the only Cargo Flagship on the West Coast.)

But if you're so determined to say you're screwed, and are more determined to stay that way without effort on your part, then I say, find a job and pay for the higher gas prices, or are you going to blame your lack of finding a job on the Government and Big Business also.

That so? then why does even Corny admit that, when things get back to 100 percent, the price will not drop all the way back to what it was?!?!

What do you call that, if not screwing the poor with a branding iron?

Because that is what I call it.

I'm tired of sounding like a broken record. The reason they won't go back all the way down is due to the basic economic concept of Supply and Demand.

Demand is outdoing Supply. THerefore, prices will stay up. When the refineries come back online, more supply will become available but not much of a supply that will lower prices considerably. Now if we can open up ANWAR and drill where we need to drill, the price of oil will drop because alot more supply will be introduced into the market.

I'm actually a 22 yo college student, studying Political Science and History and working for $6.05 as an Intramural supervisor. I am also going to be running the scoreboard clock for Field Hockey games and will be getting paid for that too.

I have to make decisions everyday regarding the money I have currently and the money I will be getting from my paycheck that I live day to day on.

I know about fiscal responsibility. Apparently you don't.

Dang and I feel bad for buying a 600$ "assault weapon" on a 7.50 an hour salary :D

So did I. I got around on my Bike, or I walked. Buses, they're not on the Island I am on (unless you count those Tour Buses that don't stop for normal commuters.) So I biked or Walked to get anywhere. Now I'm in a city with a job and guess what... I still use buses, bikes or walk wherever I need to go.

But if you're so determined to say you're screwed, and are more determined to stay that way without effort on your part, then I say, find a job and pay for the higher gas prices, or are you going to blame your lack of finding a job on the Government and Big Business also.

Well, Government tanked the economy, and big business won't open their damn purse strings to hire people, so yes, I am blaming them.

The thing that really peeves me though...is I go drive 20 miles or so to a job interview (there are no REAL jobs lewss than 20 miles from where I live) and after I spend all that gas, I still don't get the job...so it's like I just wasted my gas, time, and money (what little of it I have!)

Well, half the cows didn't die, did they? And I'd expect that when the cattle herd was back to what it had been, milk prices would go back to what they were, because, if they didn't, then the consumer is getting screwed with a branding iron.


All those cows wouldn't come out of thin air. You would have to pay for them, which would keep prices up for a while after. When you did suddenly have more milk for cheaper, everyone would rush to buy it for a 'deal'... creating more demand then there is supply, driving the prices up.

Same thing with oil.

The demand is almost always going to be greater then the supply, especially when the product is suddenly cheaper from a big supply.

Lyric has a point about the prices not dropping though. When has the price of oil ever dropped after a disaster was cleared up? Come to think of it, I've never seen the price of oil drop ever.

THANK YOU!! SOMEONE FINALLY GOT MY POINT!! It only took sixteen damn pages!!

That so? then why does even Corny admit that, when things get back to 100 percent, the price will not drop all the way back to what it was?!?!

I personally wouldn't go so far as to say prices definitely won't go back to where they were, just because that's hard to predict. There are several factors, though, that could easily prevent it from doing so. We're still dealing with a rise in the price of crude oil, courtesy of OPEC -- but if for any reason that price falls enough, we could eventually see gas prices lower than before Katrina. Labor Day weekend demand will probably keep prices somewhat high for the short term. We're putting more cars on the road every month, so normal demand will continue to increase. Oil isn't really getting any cheaper to extract either.

So, while prices could conceivably fall to the levels they were at before, current market forces don't make that look like a likely outcome.

Well, Government tanked the economy, and big business won't open their damn purse strings to hire people, so yes, I am blaming them.

Not entirely correct about the Government tanking the economy. Infact, it is mostly inaccurate.

Lyric has a point about the prices not dropping though. When has the price of oil ever dropped after a disaster was cleared up? Come to think of it, I've never seen the price of oil drop ever.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/security/gdpwop.gif

Now you have. :)

Well, half the cows didn't die, did they? And I'd expect that when the cattle herd was back to what it had been, milk prices would go back to what they were, because, if they didn't, then the consumer is getting screwed with a branding iron.

Well, to extend the analogy, assume it was only a fifth of the dairy cows in America that died. Then assume that by the time the herd was repopulated, the number of milk-drinkers in America had increased at roughly the same rate as the number of additional cars on the road. Assume on top of this that a cattle feed cartel jacked up the prices on the feed necessary to keep the cows healthy and producting milk, and that the grain fields providing the feed were stricken with a disease that made the process of growing the grain more expensive, time-consuming, and labor-intensive.

That's a better picture of what's going on.

The car I use most often? I couldn't tell you how many miles to the gallon it gets, considering I rarely drive at all. At the moment I'm home for the summer, and when I'm at school (in Chicago) I take public transportation everywhere I go. Here, I'm about 20 miles from downtown Austin, so I probably wouldn't be able to get there and back on a single gallon in anything short of a hybrid.
Any light manual four-banger should get you there in under a gallon, as long as you don't abuse it. Civic, Cooper, Protege, 318, Beetle and Golf or their TDI versions respectively. Plenty of cars out there.

Any light manual four-banger should get you there in under a gallon, as long as you don't abuse it. Civic, Cooper, Protege, 318, Beetle and Golf or their TDI versions respectively. Plenty of cars out there.

Ah, my approximation was incorrect, then. For what it's worth, when I drive, it's usually in the parents' Mercury Sable. If I owned a car myself, it'd likely be one of those you mention.

Ah, my approximation was incorrect, then. For what it's worth, when I drive, it's usually in the parents' Mercury Sable. If I owned a car myself, it'd likely be one of those you mention.
If you can find one in good condition, or if it's fixable and you know cars and can get ahold of the tools, a BMW 318 is a really fun little car. It's one of the few out there that are RWD and it handles really nicely.

Supply and demand drive most of the market.

ah....supply, schupply.

listen, i'm surviving alright myself. i'm in a little apartment, i work crazy hours in the summer and survive on student loans in the winter. i was smart enough to position myself in a place very close to school and i'm in good enough shape that i don't mind bicycling up to an hour either way to get back and forth from work.

i don't have a tv because i don't want one; i have a large cd collection, a couple of old beat up guitars, a handful of close friends, family near by and a computer with an internet hookup. this, in conjunction with my library card, is enough to keep me content.

however, i know where lyric is coming from. halfway through my third year, my stepmother tossed me out of the house with little more than my wits to survive on. i had just gone through a long, gruelling seperation between myself and all of my closest friends due to a giant misunderstanding. luckily enough, my girlfriend took me in.

had i not had her to take me in at the time i would have been completely lost. i began to question what the value of life was - i had nothing of interest to me besides one person and a handful of books, the books looking rather uninteresting in the face of giant economic hurdles. did i really want to spend 40 hours a week working, 40 hours a week studying and 50 hours a week sleeping? factor in 14 or so in transportation, another 20 or so eating/bathing/showering/etc and what's left? absolutely nothing.

if life is nothing but work, life has no value. this is what being broke taught me; and it's a very valuable lesson. for people that are already spending all of their time working to make ends meet - and my ends certainly do not need a lot to make them meet - but those that do are now going to need to work even more often to keep up with transportation costs, cutting into free time, which is much more valuable than any kind of paper, goods or credits. sure, they could sell their tv. however, that might just be the one thing that keeps their life somewhat enjoyable, as sheepish and pathetic as that may seem to me.

you can think of it like this, and i do: if a person must spend all of their time working two, three jobs in order to survive......do they truly live in a free society? in what respect are they free?

as for supply and demand....they have the supply. we should demand they are reasonable in their demand; i think the state should have more control over the markets as far as price caps go....and that goes for a lot of things, not just oil. the profit margin on coffee, for example, is just ridiculous.

Right... i've been to Australia. The city i visited (Brisbane) has an EXCELLENT train system. and the only time we went driving was when we went to the gold coast. Australia may be larger than the US, but except for the rural areas, you don't really need to drive. Gas there is more of a luxury than it is here.

*edit*
i do admit, the above bolded part is an assumption on my part :P i could be wrong.

In Melbourne we have a radial train network, an inner city only basically tram network and buses which suck. At best they end at 9pm, and at most run every 20 minutes with very few exceptions, most run every 1/2 hour to hour, and not on sat/sun, so if you dont live inner city you need a car, if you do then you generally dont need one but have one for visiting people who dont live inner city (inner being within 20km radius from CBD on the east and 10km radius on the west...)


Heh...Australia is the sixth largest country in terms of land area. The US is third, due in no small part to Texas, I might add
Not contiguos (sp?) land... im not counting alaska cause its not attached (or hawai but its kinda irrelivent here...)

as for supply and demand....they have the supply. we should demand they are reasonable in their demand; i think the state should have more control over the markets as far as price caps go....and that goes for a lot of things, not just oil. the profit margin on coffee, for example, is just ridiculous.

Due to reduced refining capacity, they don't have the supply. That's kind of what we've kept coming back to for the last 16 pages. Price caps will only make the available gasoline run out sooner.

I went to bed it was around $2.75 ish. I woke up, it was $3.20ish. I got out of class 3 hours later it was $3.50ish. This has gone too far. I no longer believe this is the price of gas but that people are getting rich at our expense. I may be conservative but I think this is even far too out of hand. To hell with Cheney and his buddies.

I went to bed it was around $2.75 ish. I woke up, it was $3.20ish. I got out of class 3 hours later it was $3.50ish. This has gone too far. I no longer believe this is the price of gas but that people are getting rich at our expense. I may be conservative but I think this is even far too out of hand. To hell with Cheney and his buddies.

And we move the arguement back to our originally scheduled program, Supply and demand.

It isn't Cheney's or his buddies fault Layarteb. It goes back to Supply and Demand. Very high demand to little supply = high prices.

housing is far different then TV, a computer, cable, gaming systems, or any other luxury.

Do you need the latter to survive? Absolutely not.
Does it make it better? Surely.

that is so very zen of you.

personally, i'd die before i sold my guitar. i DO need it to survive. i'd go insane without it.

maybe death is somewhat dramatic.....but i do believe that i'd pick my guitar over rent and just about anything else in the world.

an imaginary scenario: i'm crossing a busy street and somebody bumps into me and knocks the guitar of my back, falling over in the process and breaking
their leg. a truck is coming. do i save the guitar or the person?

sorry man, the guitar comes first.

so in the situation where i was completely broke and forced to part with my guitar.....out of my dead hands maybe...

why?

it gives ne comfort like no woman possibly can; we orgasm simultaneously. it actually listens like no other possibly can. when i am depressed, it relieves everything; when i am hungry it reaps me the necessary few dollars to get me through.

life without a guitar is not worth living. not to me, anyways.

so it may be with some and their televisions, their game systems and anything else.

why bother living if it's just going to suck?

Oh, and if you haven't yet watch the hurricane report found here (http://www.illwillpress.com). If you've been to Stephi's thread you should have seen it already. Calm down and bow to Foamy's advice.

that is so very zen of you.

personally, i'd die before i sold my guitar. i DO need it to survive. i'd go insane without it.

maybe death is somewhat dramatic.....but i do believe that i'd pick my guitar over rent and just about anything else in the world.

an imaginary scenario: i'm crossing a busy street and somebody bumps into me and knocks the guitar of my back, falling over in the process and breaking
their leg. a truck is coming. do i save the guitar or the person?

sorry man, the guitar comes first.

so in the situation where i was completely broke and forced to part with my guitar.....out of my dead hands maybe...

why?

it gives ne comfort like no woman possibly can; we orgasm simultaneously. it actually listens like no other possibly can. when i am depressed, it relieves everything; when i am hungry it reaps me the necessary few dollars to get me through.

life without a guitar is not worth living. not to me, anyways.

so it may be with some and their televisions, their game systems and anything else.

why bother living if it's just going to suck?


This is my way of thinking:

Get rid of the stuff I don't need, if I need to, before I complain that I can't afford things. Work my ass off to both meet the, now reduced, price of living and an account to save up for that stuff again.

I'm not saying you should sell it and go on with your life like that forever. Yes, it would be hard... but if it comes between selling stuff and being able to afford what I *need* to keep that stuff, or even get food!, then that stuff is going until I CAN afford it.

ah....supply, schupply.

listen, i'm surviving alright myself. i'm in a little apartment, i work crazy hours in the summer and survive on student loans in the winter. i was smart enough to position myself in a place very close to school and i'm in good enough shape that i don't mind bicycling up to an hour either way to get back and forth from work.

i don't have a tv because i don't want one; i have a large cd collection, a couple of old beat up guitars, a handful of close friends, family near by and a computer with an internet hookup. this, in conjunction with my library card, is enough to keep me content.

however, i know where lyric is coming from. halfway through my third year, my stepmother tossed me out of the house with little more than my wits to survive on. i had just gone through a long, gruelling seperation between myself and all of my closest friends due to a giant misunderstanding. luckily enough, my girlfriend took me in.

had i not had her to take me in at the time i would have been completely lost. i began to question what the value of life was - i had nothing of interest to me besides one person and a handful of books, the books looking rather uninteresting in the face of giant economic hurdles. did i really want to spend 40 hours a week working, 40 hours a week studying and 50 hours a week sleeping? factor in 14 or so in transportation, another 20 or so eating/bathing/showering/etc and what's left? absolutely nothing.

if life is nothing but work, life has no value. this is what being broke taught me; and it's a very valuable lesson. for people that are already spending all of their time working to make ends meet - and my ends certainly do not need a lot to make them meet - but those that do are now going to need to work even more often to keep up with transportation costs, cutting into free time, which is much more valuable than any kind of paper, goods or credits. sure, they could sell their tv. however, that might just be the one thing that keeps their life somewhat enjoyable, as sheepish and pathetic as that may seem to me.

you can think of it like this, and i do: if a person must spend all of their time working two, three jobs in order to survive......do they truly live in a free society? in what respect are they free?

as for supply and demand....they have the supply. we should demand they are reasonable in their demand; i think the state should have more control over the markets as far as price caps go....and that goes for a lot of things, not just oil. the profit margin on coffee, for example, is just ridiculous.

Ah....at last, and finally, SOMEONE gets my point...and understands what my rant is REALLY all about...and what is REALLY pissing me off. Someone gets it. Someone actually GETS IT!! :D Someone finally understands what is behind all my anger!

I went to bed it was around $2.75 ish. I woke up, it was $3.20ish. I got out of class 3 hours later it was $3.50ish. This has gone too far. I no longer believe this is the price of gas but that people are getting rich at our expense. I may be conservative but I think this is even far too out of hand. To hell with Cheney and his buddies.

Thank you, God!! All is not lost!! some folks are finally waking up!!

Welcome to my reality! This is where I have been at for years, and it's why I'm so pissed! I've been seeing it for YEARS. I just wish everyone else had, because if everyone got as pissed as me, something would get done about it!

Due to reduced refining capacity, they don't have the supply. That's kind of what we've kept coming back to for the last 16 pages. Price caps will only make the available gasoline run out sooner.

they don't have the supply?

the pumps are still working here.

run out sooner in what respect? i thought we had a good twenty-five to thirty years left.