NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not a Christian and don't believe in any religion, whatsoever. I lean towards believing in the Old Testament, but not Jesus. Furthermore, I also have a substantial amount of pornography.

Well, out of curiousity, I had decided to try to find the argument for how they argue that masturbation is immoral from a secular standpoint.

The previous Pope wrote about sexuality in his declaration, Persona Humana (http://www.dignityusa.org/persona-humana.html). And it's a decent argument:
The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self ("ipsation"), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes "the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love." All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of "impurity," "unchasteness" and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.
From a scriptural standpoint, it's solid. But from a philosophical standpoint, the Pope asserts that masturbation and sex counteract the end result of love.

In other words, when sex is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to develop love, there is greater selfishness in the world and less love. In my experiences in America, this is certainly true, no different than with wealth or anything that is pleasurable. We've made steps forward morally in encouraging tolerance and equality, but made steps backward when it comes to violence and sexuality.

Because the same principle applies universally. When any pleasurable activity is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to do good, that creates evil. All of the sins, including lust and greed, are merely a specific means of desire towards self-gratification at the expense of others. While masturbation, unlike greed, doesn't directly harm others, it can, indirectly, by the attitude of selfishness it creates. It also creates suffering, in that people grow old, ugly, and out-of-shape, never taking care of themselves, because why should they need to? They have pornography. And in the end, they die alone.

So, simply put: The seven sins, which include "lust" (masturbation) are merely the Buddhist concept of desire broken down into several categories. It is no surprise that eastern religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, also encourage chastity.

However, what I will say is that the means by which such morality would be enforced are inappropriate. It is our psychological nature to desire what we cannot have even more. So, cutting us off from our desires, whether it's lust or greed, only makes them stronger. For this reason, I don't believe censorship or any moral prohibition would work. But rather, the best way to address such moral issues is to show people the consequences and explain it rationally, letting them decide as individuals. If you give the government the power to enforce morality, then you give them the power and inevitable consequence of enforcing immorality, with the same power.

*snip*
What's scary is the fact that I'd been debating on making a similar thread or not, just a few hours ago.

Presented in this manner, yes, it makes more sense as to why they'd believe it to be "immoral", but I fail to agree, for reasons you likely already know. Couldn't it be argued that masturbation is a form of self-love, if sex is supposed to be a form of love, as well?

As to the example of someone relying on pornography and masturbation for sexual pleasure growing out of shape and unattractive as a result of their use of that material, I find a stretch. Yes, it is feasible that it could encourage a general apathy toward's maintaining one's health, I find it unlikely. One would still have to interact with the physical world of humanity (unless one completely isolated themselves from it), and would feel at least some pressure to maintain a certain physique.

What's scary is the fact that I'd been debating on making a similar thread or not, just a few hours ago.
No no, what's scarier is that I waited until AFTER I masterbated to read this topic.

No no, what's scarier is that I waited until AFTER I masterbated to read this topic.
Scariest of all is if you're masterbating WHILE reading the topic... :D

Lafier']Scariest of all is if you're masterbating WHILE reading the topic... :D
"Look mom! No hands!" :eek:

Sex is only for procreation? What are we ... cattle?

Sex is only for procreation? What are we ... cattle?
:D if we are... I'm sure glad God got the Udder Idea out of his system before getting to us Humans. :D

Lafier']Scariest of all is if you're masterbating WHILE reading the topic... :D

lmfao

Regardless, the whole point is mute. Regardless of what the late pope says, masterbation is a completely normal activity. There are various studies on the matter as well as websites. (that naturally I'm not going to link to.) Unless you're a bible thumper, you're not going to pay attention anyhow...so who cares?

Lafier']:D if we are... I'm sure glad God got the Udder Idea out of his system before getting to us Humans. :D

*points to boobs*

um....?

*points to boobs*

um....?
Yes, very good. *thumbs up*

*points to boobs*

um....?Boobs are NOT Udders...

Lafier']Boobs are NOT Udders...
Well, on some women... And some of the really overweight males. ew...

Your (or the Pope's) reasoning is easily applicable to the use of sexual faculty inside of conjugal relations. Sex between two individuals is just another hobby. Those two selfish, greedy, jerks. Let's ban sex. In fact, let's ban recreation of any kind, so we can help other people abstain from recreation. Sure, the world will be a duller place, but everyone will be a dullard. Let's start with games of any kind ... monopoly? Trash. Solitaire? Utter rubbish. As long as people have fun, they are immoral and evil.

So porn makes people neglect themselves and die alone? Please find me the individual who would pass up sex with a pornstar in favor of watching a movie of someone else in that position. Oh, what am I thinking, there must be plenty. In fact, the next time you see a physically ugly and overweight man, feel free to assume that they prefer porn to sex, because it's true! They can't get a date because they don't want one! Masturbation is so much better! Are we begging the question just a little? Of course not!

Your (or the Pope's) reasoning is easily applicable to the use of sexual faculty inside of conjugal relations. Sex between two individuals is just another hobby. Those two selfish, greedy, jerks. Let's ban sex. In fact, let's ban recreation of any kind, so we can help other people abstain from recreation. Sure, the world will be a duller place, but everyone will be a dullard. Let's start with games of any kind ... monopoly? Trash. Solitaire? Utter rubbish. As long as people have fun, they are immoral and evil.

So porn makes people neglect themselves and die alone? Please find me the individual who would pass up sex with a pornstar in favor of watching a movie of someone else in that position. Oh, what am I thinking, there must be plenty. In fact, the next time you see a physically ugly and overweight man, feel free to assume that they prefer porn to sex, because it's true! They can't get a date because they don't want one! Masturbation is so much better! Are we begging the question just a little? Of course not!


LMAO

Woooo, Good and Evil!

Buncha voodoo and nonsense, nothing more.

Well, on some women... And some of the really overweight males. ew...
Eeewwwww.... but they're still not Udders... to high up and less then 4 teats...

Presented in this manner, yes, it makes more sense as to why they'd believe it to be "immoral", but I fail to agree, for reasons you likely already know. Couldn't it be argued that masturbation is a form of self-love, if sex is supposed to be a form of love, as well?
No, because there's no such thing as "self-love." Love is an appreciation for the amount that others care for you. Self-love is pride and vanity.

As to the example of someone relying on pornography and masturbation for sexual pleasure growing out of shape and unattractive as a result of their use of that material, I find a stretch. Yes, it is feasible that it could encourage a general apathy toward's maintaining one's health, I find it unlikely. One would still have to interact with the physical world of humanity (unless one completely isolated themselves from it), and would feel at least some pressure to maintain a certain physique.
But not to the same extent and without that same drive.

Sex is only for procreation? What are we ... cattle?
Sex doesn't need to be for procreation only. I don't really understand the Judeo-Christian taboo against contraception, either. According to Judaism, though, sex can be fun and you can have kinky sex. You just have to be married and have to "finish," inside the girl without contraception.

Your (or the Pope's) reasoning is easily applicable to the use of sexual faculty inside of conjugal relations. Sex between two individuals is just another hobby. Those two selfish, greedy, jerks. Let's ban sex. In fact, let's ban recreation of any kind, so we can help other people abstain from recreation. Sure, the world will be a duller place, but everyone will be a dullard. Let's start with games of any kind ... monopoly? Trash. Solitaire? Utter rubbish. As long as people have fun, they are immoral and evil.
It's not the point that it's recreation, but that it's recreation for the sake of one's own pleasure. That's Hedonism, which is never good. Although Conservatives make exceptions when it comes to wealth and Liberals make exceptions when it comes to everything else.

So porn makes people neglect themselves and die alone? Please find me the individual who would pass up sex with a pornstar in favor of watching a movie of someone else in that position.
Please, tell me. How many people who watch porn have a chance with an intelligent, attractive person? Now, how many people who DON'T watch porn have a chance with an intelligent, attractive person? And finally, tell me the ratio between them. Case in point.

No no, what's scarier is that I waited until AFTER I masterbated to read this topic.
Ha!!

*FLORT*
This one and your other ones too!

Lafier']Scariest of all is if you're masterbating WHILE reading the topic... :D

Ah, thank you! That made me laugh!

Anyway, I see no real reason why anyone needs to condemn anything sexual. God gave us bodies and a free will.

If you wish to abstain, all the power to ya'. If not, fine by me. Simple as that.

Maybe a petition ought to make it 'round for a voluntary pope-masturbation rally. Either in effigy or, if he's up for it (admittedly or not), in person.
All involved should be wearing those cute little pointy-hat numbers.

EDIT: Just noticed this ref'd the LATE pope ...
:eek:
hmmm....
well, guess someone should bring the heat-jelly.

I'm not a Christian and don't believe in any religion, whatsoever. I lean towards believing in the Old Testament, but not Jesus. Furthermore, I also have a substantial amount of pornography.

Well, out of curiousity, I had decided to try to find the argument for how they argue that masturbation is immoral from a secular standpoint.

The previous Pope wrote about sexuality in his declaration, Persona Humana (http://www.dignityusa.org/persona-humana.html). And it's a decent argument:

From a scriptural standpoint, it's solid. But from a philosophical standpoint, the Pope asserts that masturbation and sex counteract the end result of love.

In other words, when sex is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to develop love, there is greater selfishness in the world and less love. In my experiences in America, this is certainly true, no different than with wealth or anything that is pleasurable. We've made steps forward morally in encouraging tolerance and equality, but made steps backward when it comes to violence and sexuality.

Because the same principle applies universally. When any pleasurable activity is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to do good, that creates evil. All of the sins, including lust and greed, are merely a specific means of desire towards self-gratification at the expense of others. While masturbation, unlike greed, doesn't directly harm others, it can, indirectly, by the attitude of selfishness it creates. It also creates suffering, in that people grow old, ugly, and out-of-shape, never taking care of themselves, because why should they need to? They have pornography. And in the end, they die alone.

So, simply put: The seven sins, which include "lust" (masturbation) are merely the Buddhist concept of desire broken down into several categories. It is no surprise that eastern religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, also encourage chastity.

However, what I will say is that the means by which such morality would be enforced are inappropriate. It is our psychological nature to desire what we cannot have even more. So, cutting us off from our desires, whether it's lust or greed, only makes them stronger. For this reason, I don't believe censorship or any moral prohibition would work. But rather, the best way to address such moral issues is to show people the consequences and explain it rationally, letting them decide as individuals. If you give the government the power to enforce morality, then you give them the power and inevitable consequence of enforcing immorality, with the same power.



The main reason it is immoral is because it requires lewd thoughts and lusts to facilitate it.


Matthew 5:27-30 27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

The main reason it is immoral is because it requires lewd thoughts and lusts to facilitate it.


Matthew 5:27-30 27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

I believe that the correct translation replaces "woman" in that quotation with "another man's wife". Jesus didn't prohibit sexuality or sexual lust entirely, just adulterous thoughts.

Also, you can choke the bishop without necessarily being lustful. I don't know about you, but there are times when I have to do it simply to get the dumb thing down and flacid so I can sleep.

Sex is only for procreation? What are we ... cattle?

In a way, yes. I don't know why people assume since we have the ability to think and decide makes us any different than say, a cow. We have no greater purpose we are just a product of evolution. Its our ability to think and judge that have us assume we are better than animals but in reality we are basicly the same, just a little smarter.

Please, tell me. How many people who watch porn have a chance with an intelligent, attractive person? Now, how many people who DON'T watch porn have a chance with an intelligent, attractive person? And finally, tell me the ratio between them. Case in point.

To be honest I don't know of a single man who doesn't watch porn.

Masturbation is a disgusting act, in fact you dont even need to do it, if you show some self control, and just wait long enough your seed will just fall out anyway, with some fantasying in your head, if you believe me, just go without for a month and you will see I'm right.

To be honest I don't know of a single man who doesn't watch porn.

I dont, I like to keep my mind free of such immoral rubbish, so I can focus on the higher things of our nature.

Sex is only for procreation? What are we ... cattle?

That's not the point the Pope was making. What he was saying is actually the opposite of making human beings into cattle.

He was saying that making sex purely an act of physical pleasure, as in masturbation is wrong because it devoids sexuality of love.

On that note, I wonder if that legitimizes masturbation if you're a narcissist?

I dont, I like to keep my mind free of such immoral rubbish, so I can focus on the higher things of our nature.

And I bet you dont have a chance with an intelligent, attractive woman. As a matter of fact you'll probably get one of those hairy tree-hugging hippies.

I believe that the correct translation replaces "woman" in that quotation with "another man's wife". Jesus didn't prohibit sexuality or sexual lust entirely, just adulterous thoughts.

Also, you can choke the bishop without necessarily being lustful. I don't know about you, but there are times when I have to do it simply to get the dumb thing down and flacid so I can sleep.

Adultery, in it's truest form and the form the Church and scripture implies, is any immoral sexual action. It has merely come to mean sexual infidelity to your spouse.

And I bet you dont have a chance with an intelligent, attractive woman. As a matter of fact you'll probably get one of those hairy tree-hugging hippies.

I dont equate intelligent women with porn.

I'm curious - for those of you who see masturbation as inherently immoral/adulturous, do you differentiate at all between masturbating while watching porn and masturbating while thinking about an absent significant other? Is there a difference from a moral standpoint?

To be honest I don't know of a single man who doesn't watch porn.
And lots of married ones too! ;)

all I got to say is he can play hide and go fuck himself

I'm curious - for those of you who see masturbation as inherently immoral/adulturous, do you differentiate at all between masturbating while watching porn and masturbating while thinking about an absent significant other? Is there a difference from a moral standpoint?
Not if you're Catholic or any of several other branches of Christianity.

In a way, yes. I don't know why people assume since we have the ability to think and decide makes us any different than say, a cow. We have no greater purpose we are just a product of evolution. Its our ability to think and judge that have us assume we are better than animals but in reality we are basicly the same, just a little smarter.



The ultimate end of atheism: Equating us with animals.

And I bet you dont have a chance with an intelligent, attractive woman. As a matter of fact you'll probably get one of those hairy tree-hugging hippies.



Personally, I'm attracted to a man who exhibits such self-restraint and doesn't indulge in sinful thoughts like heathen do. Now, I may not agree with many other things he says, but this is a pretty big turn-on.

The ultimate end of atheism: Equating us with animals.

Pretty much, Id bet every person that enjoys beastiality, is probably an atheist.

The ultimate end of atheism: Equating us with animals.
Well, we're certainly not vegetables or minerals. :D

Pretty much, Id bet every person that enjoys beastiality, is probably an atheist.



Or too stupid and socially inept to make a decision either way :D

Pretty much, Id bet every person that enjoys beastiality, is probably an atheist.
Lol I KNOW you are wrong there :p

Or too stupid and socially inept to make a decision either way :D
nope the one I knew was not that either

The ultimate end of atheism: Equating us with animals.

We ARE animals. We are members of Kingdom Animalia. This has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or atheism, and everything to do with understanding basic scientific concepts. We are not better than cows. We are different from cows, just as cows are different from sheep, squirrels, and whales.

The ultimate end of atheism: Equating us with animals.
NR, stop trying to make every single damn thread that you are in into some atheism bashfest.

NR, syop trying to make every single damn thread that you are in into some atheism bashfest.
Come on. It’s entertaining. :D

@Neo Rogolia, What about pagans?

nope the one I knew was not that either



You knew one!? Did you make sure to keep Sir Scruffy under your supervision at all times?

Or too stupid and socially inept to make a decision either way :D
Tell that to the fundamentalist Christian senator who recently admitted that he fucked a horse.

We ARE animals. We are members of Kingdom Animalia. This has nothing whatsoever to do with religion or atheism, and everything to do with understanding basic scientific concepts. We are not better than cows. We are different from cows, just as cows are different from sheep, squirrels, and whales.



The thing that seperates us from cows: We have souls, we are capable of rational thought, and we are aware of ourselves.

Tell that to the fundamentalist Christian senator who recently admitted that he fucked a horse.



I'm sorry but the fundamental tenets of Christianity and beastiality are mutually exclusive.

You knew one!? Did you make sure to keep Sir Scruffy under your supervision at all times?
No a man who was not atheist who enjoyed bestiality

I'm not a Christian and don't believe in any religion, whatsoever. I lean towards believing in the Old Testament, but not Jesus. Furthermore, I also have a substantial amount of pornography.

Well, out of curiousity, I had decided to try to find the argument for how they argue that masturbation is immoral from a secular standpoint.

The previous Pope wrote about sexuality in his declaration, Persona Humana (http://www.dignityusa.org/persona-humana.html). And it's a decent argument:

From a scriptural standpoint, it's solid. But from a philosophical standpoint, the Pope asserts that masturbation and sex counteract the end result of love.

In other words, when sex is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to develop love, there is greater selfishness in the world and less love. In my experiences in America, this is certainly true, no different than with wealth or anything that is pleasurable. We've made steps forward morally in encouraging tolerance and equality, but made steps backward when it comes to violence and sexuality.

Because the same principle applies universally. When any pleasurable activity is treated as a commodity and a hobby, rather than a means to do good, that creates evil. All of the sins, including lust and greed, are merely a specific means of desire towards self-gratification at the expense of others. While masturbation, unlike greed, doesn't directly harm others, it can, indirectly, by the attitude of selfishness it creates. It also creates suffering, in that people grow old, ugly, and out-of-shape, never taking care of themselves, because why should they need to? They have pornography. And in the end, they die alone.

So, simply put: The seven sins, which include "lust" (masturbation) are merely the Buddhist concept of desire broken down into several categories. It is no surprise that eastern religions, including Hinduism and Buddhism, also encourage chastity.

However, what I will say is that the means by which such morality would be enforced are inappropriate. It is our psychological nature to desire what we cannot have even more. So, cutting us off from our desires, whether it's lust or greed, only makes them stronger. For this reason, I don't believe censorship or any moral prohibition would work. But rather, the best way to address such moral issues is to show people the consequences and explain it rationally, letting them decide as individuals. If you give the government the power to enforce morality, then you give them the power and inevitable consequence of enforcing immorality, with the same power.


My only comment: If God had intended for us not to masturbate, He would've made our arms shorter!

No a man who was not atheist who enjoyed bestiality



I know.

My only comment: If God had intended for us not to masturbate, He would've made our arms shorter!



If God did not intend for us to murder, He would have prevented us from manufacturing instruments capable of such an act ;)

I'm a Christian and I think masturbation is perfectly moral and fine. There's nothing wrong with taking a piss, there's really not much of a difference. If God wants us to have sex every time we feel the desire to, why would we be required to get married?

I know.
Figured you did but had to re read to make sure I hadent messed something up lol

But in all seriousness I did my priest liked it

Tell that to the fundamentalist Christian senator who recently admitted that he fucked a horse.

Yeah..."family values," my ass!! You tell 'em CthulhuFhtagn!!!

I just LOVE IT when these holier-than-thou fuckheads are caught with their pants down!!

I'm a Christian and I think masturbation is perfectly moral and fine. There's nothing wrong with taking a piss, there's really not much of a difference. If God wants us to have sex every time we feel the desire to, why would we be required to get married?



So, guys think of nude women whenever they use the restroom? I hadn't heard of that before.


Edit: Oh wait, I just noticed you were being sarcastic. Sorry! ^^;

So, guys think of nude women whenever they use the restroom? I hadn't heard of that before.
Yes. We think of nude women all the time.

I just LOVE IT when these holier-than-thou fuckheads are caught with their pants down!!
He wasn't caught. He admitted it on live television. He thought everyone did it.

Yeah..."family values," my ass!! You tell 'em CthulhuFhtagn!!!

I just LOVE IT when these holier-than-thou fuckheads are caught with their pants down!!



I think this constitutes a flame, no?

If God did not intend for us to murder, He would have prevented us from manufacturing instruments capable of such an act ;)

I already told you, on another thread...I want NO DIALOGUE whatsoever with you, Neo. What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? Please quit responding to my posts, and please return me the favor of putting me on your ignore list. You've been on mine forever.

What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? I want to pretend you do not exist, get it?

I already told you, on another thread...I want NO DIALOGUE whatsoever with you, Neo. What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? Please quit responding to my posts, and please return me the favor of putting me on your ignore list. You've been on mine forever.

What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? I want to pretend you do not exist, get it?



Don't insult my religion and I won't talk to you. I'd rather not have anything to do with you either, but you just have to keep pushing my buttons :rolleyes:

If thinking of nude women was the main problem, then we'd all be going to hell wouldn't we? I mean, I don't think God is that strict as to not let us even THINK of a nude woman.

I think this constitutes a flame, no?
Not when it's targeting people not on the board.

If thinking of nude women was the main problem, then we'd all be going to hell wouldn't we? I mean, I don't think God is that strict as to not let us even THINK of a nude woman.



Where did you get that notion? Lust is one of the seven deadly sins.

Not when it's targeting people not on the board.



<---- fundamentalist Christian.

Where did you get that notion? Lust is one of the seven deadly sins.
So is sloth. And since you're wasting time on this board...

Where did you get that notion? Lust is one of the seven deadly sins.
And so is gluttony, and if it is, all of us who like food will go to hell. I don't think God puts as much emphasis on the seven sins as most people think he does.

I think this constitutes a flame, no?


NO IT DOESN'T!! I'm not flaming anyone. i'm saying I just love it when these self-righteous Christian Conservatives are discovered to be the hypocrites they are!

My attack is aimed at the politicians in question, and specifically at the horse-fucking Senator who wants to claim he is so much "better" Holier" and more "moral" than the rest of us.

Just because YOU don't like your face shoved in it when someone from YOUR TEAM screws up...that isn't flaming.

Oh, it was perectly fine for you guys to keep going off on CLINTON forever, though, wasn't it?? Wassa matter, can't take what ya dish out??

From the hottest of the hot, to the nottest of the not, every guy I know watches porn, and many many of them have no trouble getting high quality dates.

<---- fundamentalist Christian.
Then you flamed me when you insulted atheism a few pages back.

Don't insult my religion and I won't talk to you. I'd rather not have anything to do with you either, but you just have to keep pushing my buttons :rolleyes:


Then put my ass on Ignore!!

Why the hell do you think YOU are on MY ignore list?? Because YOU keep pressing MY buttons!!!

Why can you just simply pretend I don't exist, and I can pretend you don't exist, we can go back to not knowing each other, and both be VERY happy?

The thing that seperates us from cows: We have souls, we are capable of rational thought, and we are aware of ourselves.

Well first, you didn't answer the question. If these are true, what makes US better than cows. You gaves examples of differences, but say how that makes us better.

Prove to me a cow does not have a soul. Prove to me a human does have one.(personally, I believe humans and animals have souls, but here I'm using my rational thought...or maybe I'm just being confrontational, who knows?)

Rational Thought? Wait, no, as a whole humanity generally drifts toward irrational thought. Wouldn't that make us "worse than animals? Having a gift like this and choosing not to use it, as compared to a cow, which doesn't have the gift in question.

Prove to me a cow is not aware of itself. It may not sit around thinking, "Hey, I'm a cow. Oh happy day!", but that doesn't mean it isn't aware of itself.

From the hottest of the hot, to the nottest of the not, every guy I know watches porn, and many many of them have no trouble getting high quality dates.
Amen, friend, amen. Except for the high-quality dates part, that part always seems to elude me. At least, the "high quality" part does. That doesn't mean the girls are unattractive, they're just psycho crazy.

I already told you, on another thread...I want NO DIALOGUE whatsoever with you, Neo. What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? Please quit responding to my posts, and please return me the favor of putting me on your ignore list. You've been on mine forever.

What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? I want to pretend you do not exist, get it?
Got to love an open forum.
Heaven forbid anybody actually be open-minded enough to talk to those of differing ideology.

<---- fundamentalist Christian.

Tough shit! I happen to be, as you well know...leading an alternate lifestyle! Therefore, every time someone makes a crack, as you often do...about GLBT people...is THAT a flame??

sorry, but you have no more right than I do...and if you can make snarky comments about people leading alternate lifestyles, then I can make snarky comments about fundamentalist Christians who are found to be HYPOCRITES!!

I think this constitutes a flame, no?

If that were considered a flame you, me and about 85% of this forum would have been deleted a long time ago.

Then you flamed me when you insulted atheism a few pages back.



Think about it though: If we have no souls, what are we but animals who can reason?

Got to love an open forum.
Heaven forbid anybody actually be open-minded enough to talk to those of differing ideology.


Oh, I'm perfectly willing to talk to someone with a different ideology...when they are willing to ACTUALLY LISTEN, in turn...to mine! Neo isn't. she has, over time, proven this.

Her arguments are all..."I'm right because I say so...or because God said so..." and she offers no backup for any argument, she is basically just a poor debater, and quite frankly, she gets very badly under my skin...and so I put her on Ignore...and wish she would return the favor, and put ME on her Ignore, I don't want anything to do with her.

If that were considered a flame you, me and about 85% of this forum would have been deleted a long time ago.



I was specifically referring to the part where she called all fundamental Christians f***heads.

I was specifically referring to the part where she called all fundamental Christians f***heads.

I didn't. Only those who seek to force their ways, beliefs and views on others...and then turn out to be foul hypocrites...are fuckheads. and that is my opinion, and I stand by it.

I NEVER said "ALL fundamentalist Christians are fuckheads." Show me the quote.

This topic is veering WAY off course. Whatever happened to the wholesome conversation that was occuring before this?

Think about it though: If we have no souls, what are we but animals who can reason?
yup thats exactly what we are

[QUOTE=Lyric]NO IT DOESN'T!! I'm not flaming anyone. i'm saying I just love it when these self-righteous Christian Conservatives are discovered to be the hypocrites they are!

Your assuming that every Christian conservative is like that.

My attack is aimed at the politicians in question, and specifically at the horse-fucking Senator who wants to claim he is so much "better" Holier" and more "moral" than the rest of us.

The horse fucker having committed the vile act is really no longer much of a Christian, why he admitted this publically is beyond me.
Maybe it was to him the ultimate act of repentance, and for that he is to be commended.

ust because YOU don't like your face shoved in it when someone from YOUR TEAM screws up...that isn't flaming.

Someone isnt all of us.
It takes nothing away from our faith with God, this was his fuckup, not ours.

Oh, it was perectly fine for you guys to keep going off on CLINTON forever, though, wasn't it?? Wassa matter, can't take what ya dish out??

We werent denigrating an entire faith but, because of the actions of one man.

Think about it though: If we have no souls, what are we but animals who can reason?

Regardless of whether or not we have souls, that's exactly what we are. And what's wrong with that?

Apparently, I'd make a very bad Catholic.

And so is gluttony, and if it is, all of us who like food will go to hell. I don't think God puts as much emphasis on the seven sins as most people think he does.



gluttony

n 1: habitual eating to excess 2: eating to excess (personified as one of the deadly sins) [syn: overeating, gula]




Eating that which is necessary does not include gorging oneself on twinkies until one weighs 400 pounds.

Oh, I'm perfectly willing to talk to someone with a different ideology...when they are willing to ACTUALLY LISTEN, in turn...to mine! Neo isn't. she has, over time, proven this.

Her arguments are all..."I'm right because I say so...or because God said so..." and she offers no backup for any argument, she is basically just a poor debater, and quite frankly, she gets very badly under my skin...and so I put her on Ignore...and wish she would return the favor, and put ME on her Ignore, I don't want anything to do with her.
And yet you continue responding, despite your ignore list.
If you really must, just ignore her completely. Don’t respond when she replies to you. She’ll stop quoting you when she realizes she isn’t going to get a rise out of you.

Whatever happened to the wholesome conversation that was occuring before this?
Most of the participants got ideas, and need some alone time.

Apparently, I'd make a very bad Catholic.
I'm a Methodist myself, and I find nothing wrong with masturbating every once in a while. If God didn't want us to do it, why did he make it so enjoyable? What really pisses me off is how most women think it's disgusting if you tell them you do it, yet they'll turn around and jerk some guy off. That's just plain hypocritical.

Apparently, I'd make a very bad Catholic.
I know I would lol

And yet you continue responding, despite your ignore list.
If you really must, just ignore her completely. Don’t respond when she replies to you. She’ll stop quoting you when she realizes she isn’t going to get a rise out of you.


I'm not giving her uncontested ability to twist my words!! I click on VIEW POST when I see her around something I posted, because I just KNOW she will have made a snarky comment to it...and I will not allow her snarky comment to go uncontested.

Which is why I have ASKED her to put ME on HER ignore, as well.

I want to totally not see or hear her...EVER.

Regardless of whether or not we have souls, that's exactly what we are. And what's wrong with that?


The Bible makes many distinct references to man apart from beasts, creeping things, creatures of the sea, and fowl. It also states that man is above the animals and apart from them. We may be classified as mammalian in scientific nomenclature, but there is a fundamental difference which places us above animals.

I'm a Methodist myself, and I find nothing wrong with masturbating every once in a while. If God didn't want us to do it, why did he make it so enjoyable?
Or healthy? Studies have shown that masturbation drastically cuts cancer rates.

I was specifically referring to the part where she called all fundamental Christians f***heads.

He didn't call all fundamental Christians fuckheads. He called holier-than-thou types fuckheads. People who trumpet the fact that they are somehow better than others. He was calling those kinds who get caught with their pants down hypocrites and fuckheads.

I'm not giving her uncontested ability to twist my words!! I click on VIEW POST when I see her around something I posted, because I just KNOW she will have made a snarky comment to it...and I will not allow her snarky comment to go uncontested.

Which is why I have ASKED her to put ME on HER ignore, as well.

I want to totally not see or hear her...EVER.


<.<

>.>


Boo!

Or healthy? Studies have shown that masturbation drastically cuts cancer rates.
Exactly, I mean if something is so enjoyable and healthy, and you carry it around ALL THE TIME, why WOULDN'T you do it? It might be different if there seemed to be some reason not to do it aside from procreation, but there just isn't.

And yet you continue responding, despite your ignore list.
If you really must, just ignore her completely. Don’t respond when she replies to you. She’ll stop quoting you when she realizes she isn’t going to get a rise out of you.


Oh, and just by the way...I am NOT out to intentiaonally get her banned from the board...which is what she is TRYING to do to me!!

every time I say ANYTHING, she comes out accusing "flame" she is guilty of this through several threads.

She is attempting to TRAP me into being deleted. I just want her to leave me the fuck alone. She can post here all she wants. I just want her to leave ME the fuck alone.

I already have her on ignore. Now if she would simply return the favor, we could go on our merry ways, and just act like each other doesn't exist. Which would suit ME just fine. But her...no, she actually WANTS to see me get banned. She's desperately TRYING to get me banned. Can you not see this?

Imho, if it makes you feel good, do it. Also imho, Hell is just a way to scare people into believing because they're afraid of the consequences. A horrible use of propaganda. I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just stating my opinions, so please respect them. That being said, I'm going to stare at two girls get freaky naughty...I'll just stop right there. :D

...That's just plain hypocritical.
Seems to be a lot of that going around.
[QUOTE]...The horse fucker having committed the vile act is really no longer much of a Christian, why he admitted this publically is beyond me...It takes nothing away from our faith with God, this was his fuckup, not ours...
I love how you use what is often considered one of the most vile cusses when talking about The Lord our God. This is exactly what Lyric was talking about. Hypocrisy

I'm a Methodist myself, and I find nothing wrong with masturbating every once in a while. If God didn't want us to do it, why did he make it so enjoyable? What really pisses me off is how most women think it's disgusting if you tell them you do it, yet they'll turn around and jerk some guy off. That's just plain hypocritical.




The very purpose of sin is to provide temporary pleasure. If sin were not enjoyable, would anyone ever sin? This is where the whole concepts of humility, selflessness, and abstaining from evil come into play.

Oh, and just by the way...I am NOT out to intentiaonally get her banned from the board...which is what she is TRYING to do to me!!

every time I say ANYTHING, she comes out accusing "flame" she is guilty of this through several threads.

She is attempting to TRAP me into being deleted. I just want her to leave me the fuck alone. She can post here all she wants. I just want her to leave ME the fuck alone.

I already have her on ignore. Now if she would simply return the favor, we could go on our merry ways, and just act like each other doesn't exist. Which would suit ME just fine. But her...no, she actually WANTS to see me get banned. She's desperately TRYING to get me banned. Can you not see this?


Not really, you're doing all this to yourself lol.

On the horse fucking do you guys know this song?
Sung to 'He's aRhinestone Cowboy' by Glen Cambell.

He's been aploughin in the fields all dayyyy
Working behind that Bayyyyy
And he says to himself, its a fine lookin horse.
So he takes it down behind a treeeeee
To let the horse have a peeeeee
And he lifts up the tail
to check if its a sheeeeeeee
And he sees this huge vaginaaaaaa
And he says what could be finaaaaaaa
And its down with the reins
And down with the overalls toooooooo!!


He's a well hung plow boy!
Sneakin up on his horse
And having intercourrrrrsssssssse!!
Hes a well hung plowboy!
And the smile on his face
Showed no remorrrrrrssse!!

He went home for his supper
And his wife yelled
Your a horse fucker!!
I saw you behind that bay
I went to see a lawyer just today
You were up behind that horse
You were fucking with great force
And the smile on your face showed no remorrssseee
Dont know the rest.

Imho, if it makes you feel good, do it. Also imho, Hell is just a way to scare people into believing because they're afraid of the consequences.
Now I don't mean to step on your views here, but I think a post like this will only hurt our cause. It's not the reason for doing it that matters, it's the reasons not to do it. I myself think that there are more reasons to do it than not to do it. I don't do EVERYTHING because it feels good, but I think this is a necessary and natural thing. And I think that I'm not commiting any major sins here.

If thinking of nude women was the main problem, then we'd all be going to hell wouldn't we? I mean, I don't think God is that strict as to not let us even THINK of a nude woman.

Random Bible quote! "But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matt 5:28)

That's from a pamphlet on Modesty that s manic street preacher gave me. Unless we all become sexless drones, we're all going to Hell anyway. Might as well enjoy yourself before you go.

The very purpose of sin is to provide temporary pleasure. If sin were not enjoyable, would anyone ever sin? This is where the whole concepts of humility, selflessness, and abstaining from evil come into play.
So sin is also healthy? Because masturbation is.

The Bible makes many distinct references to man apart from beasts, creeping things, creatures of the sea, and fowl. It also states that man is above the animals and apart from them. We may be classified as mammalian in scientific nomenclature, but there is a fundamental difference which places us above animals.

Until this "fundamental difference" can be in any way defined or demonstrated, I don't buy it. We are animals, no better or worse than any other animal. And you know what? That's an okay thing to be. We don't need to feel superior to cows in order to be glad to be human or to worship God, and I really doubt God would want us to do so. Pride, after all, is one of the seven deadly sins. ;)

This thread makes me horny.

[snip]

:eek:

[QUOTE=Gessler]
Seems to be a lot of that going around.

I love how you use what is often considered one of the most vile cusses when talking about The Lord our God. This is exactly what Lyric was talking about. Hypocrisy

Its just a word to me, but I respect other Christians or anyone for that matter if their offended by hearing it.

This thread makes me horny.
You know what makes me horny

Song of solomon

Does anyone know if it is wrong to masturbate to the bible?

Now I don't mean to step on your views here, but I think a post like this will only hurt our cause. It's not the reason for doing it that matters, it's the reasons not to do it. I myself think that there are more reasons to do it than not to do it. I don't do EVERYTHING because it feels good, but I think this is a necessary and natural thing. And I think that I'm not commiting any major sins here.

I meant sexually, and if it's consensual, which it usually is with masturbation. Imagine if one's hand had a mind of its own...and it were a mind who thought I was immoral, I can't bear to think it anymore... :p

Does anyone know if it is wrong to masturbate to the bible?
Nope.

Does anyone know if it's wrong to masturbate with the bible?

He didn't call all fundamental Christians fuckheads. He called holier-than-thou types fuckheads. People who trumpet the fact that they are somehow better than others. He was calling those kinds who get caught with their pants down hypocrites and fuckheads.

Exactly!!

I was calling all those holier-than-thou types who are SO EAGER to point their finger at others...when they, themselves, have skeletons in their closets, thus making them hypocrites...I was calling THEM fuckheads.

I had some fundie Christian neighbors back when I lived in Kentucky. They are, and remain, among the nicest people I ever knew! We didn't agree on a whole hell of a lot, but we respected each other. They lived what they believed...and believed what they lived.

They never tried to force their ways on me. They never felt the need to hide the children when I came home from work. They were always friendly,, they waved when I waved, or vice versa. They were good people.

What I was attacking are the ones who TRUMPET how much better they are than everyone else...and then, lo and behold, we find out they got a few dirty little secrets of their own, making them HUGE hypocrites. Those people I was calling fuckheads...and I stand by that opinion.

No, not all fundie Christians are fuckheads. Anyone who knew my ex-neighbors would know that. they were some of the decentest, nicest people I knew.

Nope.

Does anyone know if it's wrong to masturbate with the bible?
Good Im not the only one that "trimmed" a few pages ... no one will notice till they try to open it up anyways

You know what makes me horny
Song of solomon
Does anyone know if it is wrong to masturbate to the bible?

Well its definitely wrong to masturbate in it, as Marilyn Manson is prone to doing as part of his stage act.

But her...no, she actually WANTS to see me get banned. She's desperately TRYING to get me banned. Can you not see this?
Not until you pointed it out. But I guess I can see that. You have a point.
Silencing those that you disapprove of is bad form, definitely.
Its just a word to me, but I respect other Christians or anyone for that matter if their offended by hearing it.
Rodger that!

Nope.

Does anyone know if it's wrong to masturbate with the bible?

From a Christian perspective, I'm pretty sure God would come down and open up a can of whoop-ass, or just send you to hell on judgement day. From an agnostic standpoint, why do it? There are sooooooooooooooo much more better lthings to do it to.

Good Im not the only one that "trimmed" a few pages ... no one will notice till they try to open it up anyways

Do you that in the Koran too?

Good Im not the only one that "trimmed" a few pages ... no one will notice till they try to open it up anyways

I'm not saying don't do that because I'm Christian... but man, think of the papercuts. That ain't even right.

Well its definitely wrong to masturbate in it, as Marilyn Manson is prone to doing as part of his stage act.
Hmmm saw him a few years ago and he dident do that ... had his GF in a big green martini glass though :p

Not really, you're doing all this to yourself lol.

Nope. Because I am not flaming. But you are trying to make it out as if I am. Everyone here has clearly expressed the opinion that what I did was NOT flame...yet you continue to TRY and yell "FLAME!!" all the time, on people....and yet, YOU actually are as guilty, if not moreso, of the very things you are accusing others of.

NOW...WHAT PART OF "NO FUCKING DIALOGUE" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND??

Leave me the fuck alone!

Do you that in the Koran too?
Naw dont have one right now only one of thoes I have is electronic ... dont have enough printer paper

I don't think women can judge us men for masturbating. You will never know why we do it, or how it feels, it would be like us judging you for childbirth or something. We will never experience it, and you will never know what we feel like when we masturbate and how our body needs it.

Well its definitely wrong to masturbate in it, as Marilyn Manson is prone to doing as part of his stage act.
It is? Damn you, Book of Kings! Damn you and your lies! This relationship is over!

Well, this thread has taken a turn for the bizarre.

It is? Damn you, Book of Kings! Damn you and your lies! This relationship is over!

Well, this thread has taken a turn for the bizarre.
Personaly better then random acusations that all bestiality fans are atheists :p

Random Bible quote! "But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matt 5:28)

That's from a pamphlet on Modesty that s manic street preacher gave me. Unless we all become sexless drones, we're all going to Hell anyway. Might as well enjoy yourself before you go.



*sigh* If only people would read the Bible itself instead of just pamphlets and whatever Preacher Joe tells them, I wouldn't have to deal with all of this. Ok *stretches fingers in preperation for an explanation*, here goes: One of the many purposes of marriage is to allow individuals the freedom to gratify the urges they have been faithfully restraining for the years.



1 Corinthians 7:1-9 1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.



Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.


I had another excerpt, but I forgot it while getting the others :(

I don't think women can judge us men for masturbating. You will never know why we do it, or how it feels, it would be like us judging you for childbirth or something. We will never experience it, and you will never know what we feel like when we masturbate and how our body needs it.

Are you implying that we don't masturbate?

*le sigh*

Nope. Because I am not flaming. But you are trying to make it out as if I am. Everyone here has clearly expressed the opinion that what I did was NOT flame...yet you continue to TRY and yell "FLAME!!" all the time, on people....and yet, YOU actually are as guilty, if not moreso, of the very things you are accusing others of.

NOW...WHAT PART OF "NO FUCKING DIALOGUE" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND??

Leave me the fuck alone!



/poke

No, not all fundie Christians are fuckheads. Anyone who knew my ex-neighbors would know that. they were some of the decentest, nicest people I knew.
You could have just said decent, but thanks all the same. :)

From a Christian perspective, I'm pretty sure God would come down and open up a can of whoop-ass, or just send you to hell on judgement day. From an agnostic standpoint, why do it? There are sooooooooooooooo much more better lthings to do it to.

Everytime you masturbate, a little angel flys up to heaven and whispers in Gods ear while pointing at you.

Dont touch it, show some self control. Resist your basic urges, and rise to a higher form of being.
Eventually your penis will leak the seed out while you sleep giving you great comfort.

You know what makes me horny

Song of solomon

Does anyone know if it is wrong to masturbate to the bible?

Well, for at least some Jewish people I know, it's traditional to read the Song of Songs to your spouse on [holiday whose name I can't recall at the moment] and then have hot steamy sex. So it's at least fair game for foreplay. :p

Are you implying that we don't masturbate?

*le sigh*
No, I'm saying that they are totally different in every way. Our orgasm is kind of a release, like taking a piss after holding it in for a year or so, and God knows what the hell yours is.

/poke
That has got to be the single worst attempt at flamebait ever.

Until this "fundamental difference" can be in any way defined or demonstrated, I don't buy it. We are animals, no better or worse than any other animal. And you know what? That's an okay thing to be. We don't need to feel superior to cows in order to be glad to be human or to worship God, and I really doubt God would want us to do so. Pride, after all, is one of the seven deadly sins. ;)



This isn't really much an issue of pride as it is an issue of fact. Do you think we relish in the thought that we are greater than animals? We are lower than too many other things to be proud of it.

I don't think women can judge us men for masturbating. You will never know why we do it, or how it feels, it would be like us judging you for childbirth or something. We will never experience it, and you will never know what we feel like when we masturbate and how our body needs it.

Women masturbate too dude, its just not as obvious.

This isn't really much an issue of pride as it is an issue of fact. Do you think we relish in the thought that we are greater than animals? We are lower than too many other things to be proud of it.
Oh demonstrate the soul you say seperates us

Sense it is fact lets see it

*sigh* If only people would read the Bible itself instead of just pamphlets and whatever Preacher Joe tells them, I wouldn't have to deal with all of this. Ok *stretches fingers in preperation for an explanation*, here goes: One of the many purposes of marriage is to allow individuals the freedom to gratify the urges they have been faithfully restraining for the years.


I actually have read the Bible. I was a very devout Christian for years, actually... I still disagree on it's views of sexuality. I doubt there is any changing your mind on the subject, judging by your previous post, but I don't believe sex is or should be exclusive to married, opposite-sex couples. That excludes alot of us... single lady here. I am not going to deprive myself of sexual experience. That seems unhealthy and unnatural to me.hh

Edit

Everytime you masturbate, a little angel flys up to heaven and whispers in Gods ear while pointing at you.
No, God kills a kitten. Don't you read the manual?

Dont touch it, show some self control. Resist your basic urges, and rise to a higher form of being.
Eventually your penis will leak the seed out while you sleep giving you great comfort.
But then we have to change our underwear. And we don't get the health benefits. Or the pleasure. Or the $50 per hour we get as part of some kinky sex show.

God I need sleep.

Women masturbate too dude, its just not as obvious.
Yeah, but like I said earlier, it's a totally different thing. Theirs is some sort of thing involving nerves and cells and whatever the hell it is, but ours is a releasing of pressure that we build up all day. They don't release anything, they just have nerves that get touched or something, I don't have a fucking clue what theirs is.

This isn't really much an issue of pride as it is an issue of fact. Do you think we relish in the thought that we are greater than animals? We are lower than too many other things to be proud of it.

If it's an issue of fact, why do you seem to disagree with me? There is no factual evidence to indicate that we are anything more than, as you put it, animals that can reason - which seems to me to be a perfectly good thing to be, anyway.

And honestly, I get the impression that most people who argue that we are somehow intrinsically superior to all other species do take a perverse pride in that, although I don't really understand why.

Yeah..."family values," my ass!! You tell 'em CthulhuFhtagn!!!

I just LOVE IT when these holier-than-thou fuckheads are caught with their pants down!!
You seem to have an awful lot of hostility in there somewhere. Any particular reason?

The real question is not wether or not mastubation is sinful, but rather, is picking your nose...in front of the pope...naked...sinful?

Oh demonstrate the soul you say seperates us

Sense it is fact lets see it



And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.

I already told you, on another thread...I want NO DIALOGUE whatsoever with you, Neo. What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? Please quit responding to my posts, and please return me the favor of putting me on your ignore list. You've been on mine forever.

What part of NO DIALOGUE do you not understand? I want to pretend you do not exist, get it?
Again with the hostility. What on earth is bothering you so much???

The real question is not wether or not mastubation is sinful, but rather, is picking your nose...in front of the pope...naked...sinful?
Good question. Good thing I'm a Methodist instead of a Catholic, otherwise I would be trying it out right now. Or not. I wouldn't try anything too drastic in front of "Herr Poppen Uberdalis", or as I like to call him "Nazi Pope".

And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.
I would just like to say that no one can say for sure that the soul is not corporeal. People in the 13th century would have laughed if you had told them that signals could be transmitted by invisible "radio waves". Why can't the soul exist in a similar fashon?

And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.
Well you said it was simply fact

If so lets see it if not calling it "fact" is hardly lending itself to an acurate description

More correct is you believe it is true that we all have souls

That would be much closer to reality

Again with the hostility. What on earth is bothering you so much???



She is the one person whom I don't have to flamebait to get a negative reaction. She makes up her own troll, so I don't have to do it :D

Good question. Good thing I'm a Methodist instead of a Catholic, otherwise I would be trying it out right now. Or not. I wouldn't try anything too drastic in front of "Herr Poppen Uberdalis", or as I like to call him "Nazi Pope".
I prefer to refer to him as "Pope Sidious" or "P-Dizzle"

Yeah, but like I said earlier, it's a totally different thing. Theirs is some sort of thing involving nerves and cells and whatever the hell it is, but ours is a releasing of pressure that we build up all day. They don't release anything, they just have nerves that get touched or something, I don't have a fucking clue what theirs is.
Don't release anything??? LOL! You've obviously never seen a woman squirt!

The female orgasm is the physical counterpoint of the male orgasm. Taking, pulling, milking, as opposed to thrusting, penetrating, spurting. We're very well matched! :D

The real question is not wether or not mastubation is sinful, but rather, is picking your nose...in front of the pope...naked...sinful?
With the amount of money he pays for that, it's got to be a sin.

(What the hell is up with me today?)

Well you said it was simply fact

If so lets see it if not calling it "fact" is hardly lending itself to an acurate description

More correct is you believe it is true that we all have souls

That would be much closer to reality



I think we both have differing definitions of fact. Mine is objective, i.e. nobody needs to acknowledge or verify it in order for it to be a truth.

I prefer to refer to him as "Pope Sidious" or "P-Dizzle"
Pope Noonien Singh (Star Trek nerds will get this one).

I think we both have differing definitions of fact. Mine is objective, i.e. nobody needs to acknowledge or verify it in order for it to be a truth.
Au contraire. If it's objective, it has to be verifiable.

With the amount of money he pays for that, it's got to be a sin.

(What the hell is up with me today?)
I suggest "Tucker Death Mix" (TM) in as large of a quantity as possible.

She is the one person whom I don't have to flamebait to get a negative reaction. She makes up her own troll, so I don't have to do it :D
Hmmm. Is what you two have what they sometimes refer to as a "cat fight?" :D

Good question. Good thing I'm a Methodist instead of a Catholic, otherwise I would be trying it out right now. Or not. I wouldn't try anything too drastic in front of "Herr Poppen Uberdalis", or as I like to call him "Nazi Pope".



He deserted the Hitler Youth, so calling him a Nazi is tantamount to calling black white.

I think we both have differing definitions of fact. Mine is objective, i.e. nobody needs to acknowledge or verify it in order for it to be a truth.
And you BELIEVE the soul falls into an objecitve truth catagory

Thats all good and fine but without some evidence personaly dont believe it

So unless you can move it beyond the realm of belief it is still up in the "air" and you still believe it is fact

I actually respect the Pope despite being a Protestant, I just like kidding around about him.

He deserted the Hitler Youth, so calling him a Nazi is tantamount to calling black white.
When has being wrong ever stopped us?!

I would just like to say that no one can say for sure that the soul is not corporeal. People in the 13th century would have laughed if you had told them that signals could be transmitted by invisible "radio waves". Why can't the soul exist in a similar fashon?


I never said it couldn't, in fact, a lot of recent research tends to support the notion that thought is transmissible. Of course, this evidence won't be accepted by a scientific community that embraces materialism anytime soon :D Anyways, the soul and the mind are different, the soul is the spiritual manifestation of the Self, whereas the mind is the physical manifestation.

When has being wrong ever stopped us?!


Good point :D

I never said it couldn't, in fact, a lot of recent research tends to support the notion that thought is transmissible. Of course, this evidence won't be accepted by a scientific community that embraces materialism anytime soon :D Anyways, the soul and the mind are different, the soul is the spiritual manifestation of the Self, whereas the mind is the physical manifestation.
Or does the soul exist because it is recognized and observed as a manifestation of the Self? Ooooo, spooky. Thank you quantum mechanics...and wavefunction collapse...and Schrodinger...and...pie? *brain fizzle*

And you BELIEVE the soul falls into an objecitve truth catagory

Thats all good and fine but without some evidence personaly dont believe it

So unless you can move it beyond the realm of belief it is still up in the "air" and you still believe it is fact



I believe it's one of those facts that can't be verified by science. Like everything else metaphysical.

i was under the impression that the catholic church talked about tolerance and such....

i know im going to hell, ive accepted it.

i dont like christians or any religions telling me i need to change my ways.
if i masturbate, thats my buisness, i know its a sin in your eyes, im gonna do it anyway. the church cant stop people from having impure thoughts, not unless they put cameras in every house and passed laws that made everythign they think is a sin illegal...

and here i was thinking they taught tolerance..that doesnt seem very tolerant to me

I bet you marry was hot

I bet you marry was hot
If you mean Mary Magdeline, you are probably right. Freaking whore.

I believe it's one of those facts that can't be verified by science. Like everything else metaphysical.
Thats perfectly fine that does not make it right or wrong but what it is not is demonstratable fact

So like I said you believe that humans have a soul ... I do not

Unless either of us can prove it , it will stay up in the air lol

Hmmm. Is what you two have what they sometimes refer to as a "cat fight?" :D



It's a one-way catfight. I don't instigate or retaliate, I just sit back and enjoy myself :D

And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.
Yeah. You’ll throw a tantrum.

Honestly, Neo Rogolia why do you argue these things with unbelievers? Knowing the Truth is like having one’s eyes opened for the first time. You can’t explain sight to the blind. God finds those that are susceptible to His Truth. Maybe he will use you in revealing Himself to someone; maybe He already has, but all you are doing here is convincing these people that Christians are intolerant buffoons. They have shown no interest, expressed no feeling of being lost. So why do you continue to invoke mockery upon us?

If you mean Mary Magdeline, you are probably right. Freaking whore.
Her too ... but the mother of god has to be a hottie

i was under the impression that the catholic church talked about tolerance and such....

i know im going to hell, ive accepted it.

i dont like christians or any religions telling me i need to change my ways.
if i masturbate, thats my buisness, i know its a sin in your eyes, im gonna do it anyway. the church cant stop people from having impure thoughts, not unless they put cameras in every house and passed laws that made everythign they think is a sin illegal...

and here i was thinking they taught tolerance..that doesnt seem very tolerant to me



Christ never teaches acceptance of sin, lol.

Good point :D
I am amazed. I get on the internet in a stupor to look up something, get lost, and in the process someone tells me that an angry, incoherant comment I made was actually a good point. You, Miss, have made a mockery of me, and I of you, and together we have done the same to the entire system of order and logic in the cosmos! *Bwuahahahahahahaha! *honk* *clown nose* I REALLY should go to bed, but I think there is a good chance I may get lost getting there, that's how incoherant I am.

Her too ... but the mother of god has to be a hottie
No man, I'm not going there. But I will agree with you on Magdeline. I don't think Jesus would take too kindly to me thinking of his mom that way. I mean, I am trying to get into the afterlife. And Jesus is my homie.

Yeah. You’ll throw a tantrum.

Honestly, Neo Rogolia why do you argue these things with unbelievers? Knowing the Truth is like having one’s eyes opened for the first time. You can’t explain sight to the blind. God finds those that are susceptible to His Truth. Maybe he will use you in revealing Himself to someone; maybe He already has, but all you are doing here is convincing these people that Christians are intolerant buffoons. They have shown no interest, expressed no feeling of being lost. So why do you continue to invoke mockery upon us?



Powi asked what seperates us from animals, did you expect me to be rude and ignore it? I never asked to get into a debate over the soul, I was just explaining what we believe seperates us from beasts.

Christ never teaches acceptance of sin, lol.
Your right it was creig christ ... that man was a party animal!
"the question is not what would jesus do but where will you be when the creig machine comes partying through"

No man, I'm not going there. But I will agree with you on Magdeline. I don't think Jesus would take too kindly to me thinking of his mom that way. I mean, I am trying to get into the afterlife. And Jesus is my homie.
Being all knowing he has to already know his mom was a milf

If you mean Mary Magdeline, you are probably right. Freaking whore.
Totally, totally, and I do mean TOTALLY, uncalled for. There are millions of people in the world who revere Mary. Why would you say that? Just to be controversial? Would you say the same sort of thing about Mohammed, or Bhudda, or any of a number of other religious icons?

Totally, totally, and I do mean TOTALLY, uncalled for. There are millions of people in the world who revere Mary. Why would you say that? Just to be controversial? Would you say the same sort of thing about Mohammed, or Bhudda, or any of a number of other religious icons?
They revere magdline? I thought they reviered jesus mom marry more?

I don't think Jesus would take too kindly to me thinking of his mom that way.
He fucked his own mother. He'll cut you if you even ponder it. He's got this weird-ass oedipal complex.

Would you say the same sort of thing about Mohammed, or Bhudda, or any of a number of other religious icons?
Maybe. If I was gay. And it's a fact, Mary Magdeline WAS a prostitute. Look it up online somewhere, or better yet CHECK THE BIBLE.

He fucked his own mother. He'll cut you if you even ponder it. He's got this weird-ass oedipal complex.
True god is his own daddy :p

Hmm... Hey Pope! Don't knock until you've tried it!

And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.

You dont believe in that 21 grams bullshit do you?

And how am I supposed to demonstrate an immaterial essence? Don't play that "you can't prove it therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" game with me.

You're being deliberately ingenuous. What he said is much closer to "you can't offer any evidence supporting it, therefore I have no reason to believe it exists" - which is a highly reasonable position. If I tell you that the room you are currently in is actually full of invisible bunny rabbits, would you believe me? Probably not. If, however, you reached out your hand and felt something fuzzy in midair, you'd be a lot more inclined to take me seriously, even though the existence of invisible bunnies would still be far from proven.

You simply can't redefine words to mean whatever you like in a rational discussion - proof is different from evidence, and facts are different from beliefs. That doesn't mean beliefs are inferior, but that you can't present them as facts. You believe humans have souls and cows don't. I believe that we all have "souls" in some sense, cows included. Neither of us can prove the other wrong, and neither of our beliefs are admissible as fact. What is admissable as fact is that, to date, there has been no evidence to suggest that humans have any spiritual essence cows lack.

Maybe. If I was gay. And it's a fact, Mary Magdeline WAS a prostitute. Look it up online somewhere, or better yet CHECK THE BIBLE.
When I was a kid I used to get thoes two confused (really little) too many marries

I would just like to say that no one can say for sure that the soul is not corporeal. People in the 13th century would have laughed if you had told them that signals could be transmitted by invisible "radio waves". Why can't the soul exist in a similar fashon?

Well maybe I can see into the future? And contact the dead with my supernatural powers.

Hmm... Hey Pope! Don't knock until you've tried it!

Even the Pope masturbates. It's human nature.

Maybe. If I was gay. And it's a fact, Mary Magdeline WAS a prostitute. Look it up online somewhere, or better yet CHECK THE BIBLE.
I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.

I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.
Again what religion reveres marry Magdalene (at least on the same scale as your Buddha examples? ) I am honestly curious

I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.
You know who's really hot, whoever the hell that European pagan goddess is. Now SHE is a FOX.

Powi asked what seperates us from animals, did you expect me to be rude and ignore it? I never asked to get into a debate over the soul, I was just explaining what we believe seperates us from beasts.
This is not the only incidence of your buffoonery. You’ve done it many times before.

Even the Pope masturbates. It's human nature.
That could be a website
popeporn.com

Or
Vaticannights.com

You know who's really hot, whoever the hell that European pagan goddess is. Now SHE is a FOX.
Fuck ya someone like Aphrodite serve me up another plate of her!

(Christian term pagan … as in not Christian lol … not actually pagan definition)

Christ never teaches acceptance of sin, lol.

so?
i was just saying my opinion that they arent tolerant
i stated taht i have sinned acording to you and im ok with that
i simply state this so i can tell you or all the religious people who think they know whats best for me and such, i dotn like that...and things like that make me think christians arent as tolerant as they say

This (http://www.americannaziparty.com/) is what the Pope masturbates to, not that pansy porno stuff everybody else does it to.

(I don't endorse any of the ignorant garbage on that site, but for the purpose of humor it MUST be posted)

Again what religion reveres marry Magdalene (at least on the same scale as your Buddha examples? ) I am honestly curious
That was a misapprehension on my part. I thought the poster was referring to Mary, Mother of Jesus, not Mary Magdaline. My bad.

I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.
Right. Calling her a prostitute is an attempt to undermine the influence of sin in everyday people, and possibly to undermine women.

That was a misaprehension on my part. I thought the poster was referring to Mary, Mother of Jesus, not Mary Magdaline. My bad.
I did but I was not so harsh (and don’t worry I get them confused all the time) :p :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.

It's funny - the last few times I've heard anyone say "You're wrong - it's in the Bible," whatever they're claiming to be true is not, in fact, in the Bible. It makes one wonder if these people have read their own holy book...

(And Eutrusca is quite right. No one claimed Mary Magdalene was a prostitute until something like the sixth century. It's very definitely not in the Bible.)

I did but I was not so harsh (and don’t worry I get them confused all the time) :p :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:
Heh! What? Me worry? I read Mad! :D

I've read the Bible cover to cover several times and nowhere in the Bible does it either say or indicate that Mary Magdaline was a prostitute. Making a bald-faced assertion like this requires some proof. So far all you've offered is hostile rhetoric.

Actually, the hostile rhetoric came from the Catholic church. Pope Gregory the Great in 591 called Mary a whore and it's only been in the last few decades that church revisionists have pointed out the error. It may take 1400 years or so, but eventually the church gets things right. I suspect that by the year 3505, Pope Jerry the 25th will give wacking off his papal "thumbs-up".

Right. Calling her a prostitute is an attempt to undermine the influence of sin in everyday people, and possibly to undermine women.
Earlier mistranslations refered to Magladene as a prostitute, but have since been corrected.

Right. Calling her a prostitute is an attempt to undermine the influence of sin in everyday people, and possibly to undermine women.
Really ...for what reson then was she suposed to be stoned for ?

Earlier mistranslations refered to Magladene as a prostitute, but have since been corrected.
Yeah I thought so an early church thing but this portion of the bible is not my strong point lol

It's funny - the last few times I've heard anyone say "You're wrong - it's in the Bible," whatever they're claiming to be true is not, in fact, in the Bible. It makes one wonder if these people have read their own holy book...

(And Eutrusca is quite right. No one claimed Mary Magdalene was a prostitute until something like the sixth century. It's very definitely not in the Bible.)
Which is just one more reason I long ago parted company with traditional religions. Why bother to claim you believe something when you don't even know what it is that you're claiming to believe? :)

Really ...for what reson then was she suposed to be stoned for ?

Mary Magdalene was never supposed to be stoned. That's a different woman, unnamed in the Bible.

I don't like the belief that we were created by a higher being and that if we don't do this and that we will go to hell.

Until someone can do the one thing no one has been able to do... PROVE IT... then I'm going to look at the world in a logical way.

When I read the bible ( boring week off ), well let's face it. EVERYONE IS GOING TO HELL. I dare anyone to honesly say they are going to heaven.

It's funny - the last few times I've heard anyone say "You're wrong - it's in the Bible," whatever they're claiming to be true is not, in fact, in the Bible. It makes one wonder if these people have read their own holy book...
Oh, and by the way everybody, you can't masturbate. It's in the bible.

Really ...for what reson then was she suposed to be stoned for ?
She wasn't. That was the otherwise unidentified "Woman taken in adultery."

Really ...for what reson then was she suposed to be stoned for ?
General consensus is that Magladene is a composite of various women. The primary one (who was possibly Yeshua's wife, as supported by the water into wine miracle) was not a prostitute.

Mary Magdalene was never supposed to be stoned. That's a different woman, unnamed in the Bible.
Hmmm I am still dealing with a lot of religous misadvertising then ... such is life all these organizations all have their own interpretations on things

Of course everybody thinks theirs is the one and only

Oh, and by the way everybody, you can't masturbate. It's in the bible.
Once again with the inaccuracies and hostilty. You, my friend, have serious, serious issues.

I like to whack off.

Even the Pope masturbates. It's human nature.

I doupt it, hes too old for that shit.

I like to whack off.

Where?
Do you do it in public?

I doupt it, hes too old for that shit.
He's never too old for Levitra. "The official boner juice of Coach Ditka and DA BEARS."

II dare anyone to honesly say they are going to heaven.
I am.

Aren't I, God?

YES. NOW PLEASE REMOVE THE PITCHFORK FROM MY SPLEEN. IT HURTS. A LOT.

I have sex with my gf in the public you sicko. I like to whack off when she isnt there with me.

I have sex with my gf in the public you sicko. I like to whack off when she isnt there with me.
In "the public" what??? Bathroom?

Once again with the inaccuracies and hostilty. You, my friend, have serious, serious issues.
He was parodying the whole '"It's in the Bible" being always wrong' thing.

Okay.... here's a thorny theological puzzle... Can we wack-off once we get to heaven? I mean... once were in heaven, we're there - we made it. I'd think it would be anything goes then.

He's never too old for Levitra. "The official boner juice of Coach Ditka and DA BEARS."
Levitra can be hazardous to your health. I recommend trying Cialis or Viagra if you want an extra boost. And they're just not for "erectile dysfuntion," boys and girls! :D

...Do you people know where to have sex in public places? In fun places. Where you can get caught. Downside is 50% of the time we got caught. :sniper:

Okay.... here's a thorny theological puzzle... Can we wack-off once we get to heaven? I mean... once were in heaven, we're there - we made it. I'd think it would be anything goes then.
Sometimes I ponder becoming a Muslim. Because I mean, how can it truly be heaven without 70 virgins waiting for you? I'll tell you what heaven is going to be like, it's going to be Barnhill's Buffet, with hookers for waitresses.

He was parodying the whole '"It's in the Bible" being always wrong' thing.
He is a paraody. ;)

Okay.... here's a thorny theological puzzle... Can we wack-off once we get to heaven? I mean... once were in heaven, we're there - we made it. I'd think it would be anything goes then.
Maybe being in heaven will be like one big orgasm
An eternal orgasm

I hope they have a mop

I have sex with my gf in the public you sicko. I like to whack off when she isnt there with me.

The public what?

Levitra can be hazardous to your health. I recommend trying Cialis or Viagra if you want an extra boost. And they're just not for "erectile dysfuntion," boys and girls! :D
Have you seen robin Williams live on brodway standup? If not you might want to catch the Viagra portion :p

The public what?

Typo. I think he meant "in the pubic"

In "the public" what??? Bathroom?
In the public. Literally. They're like 3 inches high.

I'm beginning to suspect that Benadryl might have some side-effects.

Have you seen robin Williams live on brodway standup? If not you might want to catch the Viagra portion :p
LOL! I know I would love that! He's hilarious. :D

Okay.... here's a thorny theological puzzle... Can we wack-off once we get to heaven? I mean... once were in heaven, we're there - we made it. I'd think it would be anything goes then.

What makes you think you will even have a penis?
No more hand shandies with the soap for you my friend.

He is a paraody. ;)
Who cares what you think. You can't even spell parrot. ;)

Edit: This thread is so off-topic. This is what late-night posting gets you.

LOL! I know I would love that! He's hilarous. :D
“look kids grapmpa’s got wood! Hehehehe”

Maybe being in heaven will be like one big orgasm
An eternal orgasm


Dear god, I hope not. Do you have any idea how exhausting that gets after a few minutes?

Who cares what you think. You can't even spell parrot. ;)
ROFLMFAO!!! Now, I've heard that somewhere before. Hmmm! ;)

Who cares what you think. You can't even spell parrot. ;)

Edit: This thread is so off-topic. This is what late-night posting gets you.
I think us three are the only ones in here forum “old” enough to remember that lol

So where in the Bible does it outlaw jerking-off? The only part I remember is something about not spilling your seed on the ground. What if we keep it off the ground? What if you used a paper cup or something? Would that be okay?

“look kids grapmpa’s got wood! Hehehehe”
Hey! Who da hell u callin' "grapmpa," you friggin' neophyte! :D

So where in the Bible does it outlaw jerking-off?
It doesn't.

Typo. I think he meant "in the pubic"
He's "pubic enemy number one". Dun-Dun-Tsh! (http://www.ilovewavs.com/Effects/Music/RimShot.wav)

Hey! Who da hell u callin' "grapmpa," you friggin' neophyte! :D
Lol that is in his skit … I told you … you should really catch it :)

grandma: "dont stick that rusty thing in me I havent had a tetnas shot"

Lol that is in his skit … I told you … you should really catch it :)

grandma: "dont stick that rusty thing in me I havent had a tetnas shot"
My ex: "Oh no you don't! I have no idea where it's been!" ROFLMAO!!!!!

i never knew robin williams was such a dirty minded person till i saw one of those shows

I have sex with my gf in the public you sicko. I like to whack off when she isnt there with me.

Where did you and your girlfriend do it in public?
And what was the highest risk factor you two got off on?

Mines while driving through the city at night.

My ex: "Oh no you don't! I have no idea where it's been!" ROFLMAO!!!!!http://geek.upwardthrust.us/roflcopter.gif

*snip*

I can certainly understand this opening argument and it is very sound, and I agree with it to some extent.

Theres a profound difference here though.

You have:
(A) a single fifty year old man whos fat and lives in his moms basement and never tried to meet women for decades and whacks off to boxes and boxes of porn,

and

(B) a fifteen year old who cranks one out in the shower every now and then and goes on to lead a perfectly normal life happily married with children.


Masturbation in the boys case, I believe is a normal step in development, and a healthy outlet for sexual tension (and fluids :p)

Porn Masturbation in case A is an unfulfiling lifestyle which is the bad form of masturbation

http://geek.upwardthrust.us/roflcopter.gif
Thank you, thank you. :)

That's what she actually said, the last time I busted a move on 'er. And that was right after a discussion where she told me that "oral sex is wrong." Groan! The woman has serious issues.

Thank you, thank you. :)

That's what she actually said, the last time I busted a move on 'er. And that was right after a discussion where she told me that "oral sex is wrong." Groan! The woman has serious issues.
You must really have loved her. I don't think I could manage to make a relationship last more than a week with such a frigid person :eek: