NationStates Jolt Archive

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)

Edit: Please don't make this thread about religion, unless you have valid points.....moderatore WILL be informed if it goes OT

Not as long as the people involve consent and get paid. Prostitution, maybe, but not rape.

lol, why does your name have to be a prepositional phrase? The thread reads "Pornography, is it the same as rape of the underpants?"

What makes rape immoral is that it is forced. Is the pornography subject doing the job willingly? Is anyone being forced to look at it? If there is consent on all parts, then clearly, it is not even in the same ballpark as rape. Not even the same sport. Not even a sport.

No. Big difference. Porn is yummy and hurts no one. Rape is icky and a form of assault.
mmmmmm porn...
I know all about people like your prof. My sister is a total feminazi, and occasionally heckles guys standing outside of strip clubs...

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)

What the fuck? Porno actresses get paid a good deal of money to do what they do, and most of it is fake. They're able to quit their job, if they want to, so long as they're not under contract.

Rape, on the other hand, is violent, demoralizing, traumatizing, unwilling...to compare them, at all, is absolutely ridiculous and assinine.

What makes rape immoral is that it is forced. Is the pornography subject doing the job willingly? Is anyone being forced to look at it? If there is consent on all parts, then clearly, it is not even in the same ballpark as rape. Not even the same sport. Not even a sport.

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.

The only type of porn that's close to rape is rape porn and most of that is probably faked.

The people involved in a rape are a criminal and an unwilling or incompetant victim. The people involved in making porno are a cameraman and one or more actor/prostitutes. There's a big difference there.

lol, why does your name have to be a prepositional phrase? The thread reads "Pornography, is it the same as rape of the underpants?"

Leave me alone!! Every time I start a thread like this you jump on me!! lol....You don't like my underpants? :fluffle:

I think this man needs to get his testicles back.
This isn't even really an issue. Modern feminism is lunacy.

You don't like my underpants? :fluffle:

What gender are you? :D

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.

Now that is a stretch. That's like saying everytime a man has a sexual fantasy about some woman he is committing rape. There's a big difference between action and fantasy, so that argument doesn't work.

I wonder what his stance is on lesbian porn?

I feel that it may be wrong in circumstances where the person feels as though they have to do it. Oftentimes only the poor and disenfranchised do such things. Unfortunately such individualistic regulations would be hard to keep up. :D (Maybe I should rephrase that) As long as all consent and are reimbursed for their "efforts" I see no problem except when a person is forced to do such things out of necessity.

I think this man needs to get his testicles back.
This isn't even really an issue. Modern feminism is lunacy.

He's actually very happily married, and is trying for kids....but I think I know what you mean...apart from the lunacy bit

Jenna Jameson (I think it's her) is perhaps one of the best debaters on the pro-porn side... being both a female and model herself throws out irrelevant attacks against the validity of her views. She's incredibly well spoken about the topic and (in debates which a "winner" is declared) has a good record going. I suggest you try to search for transcripts of debates and such in which she's participated. Perhaps if you do further classwork on it, you could cite her as a source.

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.

Yeah, but most such people imagine the sex to be consensual, and about as many imagine being the rapists as imagine being the victim.

What gender are you? :D

Did you even read my first post? :D

I think this man needs to get his testicles back.
This isn't even really an issue. Modern feminism is lunacy.
If you feel that in order to be a "real man", you must not support feminism, that would suggest that you are insecure with your own masculinity and possibly sexuality as well.

if you are worried about passing some kind of "test" with this jerk next year, you need to go read some feminist literature on the subject, then make up your own mind about how you want to respond to him

yes porn can be seen as an immoral exploitation of women. it can in some cases be similar to date rape in the coercion of a desperate woman to consent to something she would not otherwise be willing to do. in some specific instances (deep throat) it is alleged that the actress was forced into participating thus making it a form of rape

but in general if a woman wants to make money in porn, its her business and she consents to it freely. there is no need to coerce anyone, there are pleny of willing workers. to equate THAT with rape is to have no sympathy for women who are forced into sex acts that they have in no way consented to and may end up in hospital or dead from.

the 2 things just are not the same in reality.

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.So porn is ok as long as guys don't watch it? Sounds good to me. Hand over your collection.

Now that is a stretch. That's like saying everytime a man has a sexual fantasy about some woman he is committing rape. There's a big difference between action and fantasy, so that argument doesn't work.

I wonder what his stance is on lesbian porn?

I believe it is the same.....suggesting that the man watching it is commiting rape simply by watching it....there have actually been precedants about people sueing for someone having sexual fantasies about women....can't think of them at the moment but will do a quick google.

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.

Still doesn’t make too much sense to me.
First, so what if the guy imagines himself doing something? If someone imagines killing a person, are they guilty of murder?
Second, I think most, if not all, of the porn actress know that the guys are imagining themselves in such a position. They still agreed to the job.

I believe it is the same.....suggesting that the man watching it is commiting rape simply by watching it....there have actually been precedants about people sueing for someone having sexual fantasies about women....can't think of them at the moment but will do a quick google.

So then what's his stance on gay porn? :-P

So then what's his stance on gay porn? :-P
Erm.....the same I guess....he didn't mention gay porn much to be honest....lesbian porn yes, because it involves women, but not much about gay porn....never thought about that b4, maybe he just doesn't like men....

I believe it is the same.....suggesting that the man watching it is commiting rape simply by watching it....there have actually been precedants about people sueing for someone having sexual fantasies about women....can't think of them at the moment but will do a quick google.

Wow, that's getting into thought crime land. Ask him if he's a big supporter of the PATRIOT Act.

Still doesn’t make too much sense to me.
First, so what if the guy imagines himself doing something? If someone imagines killing a person, are they guilty of murder?
Second, I think most, if not all, of the porn actress know that the guys are imagining themselves in such a position. They still agreed to the job.

Maybe they are guilty of murder though....it depends on what you listen to....I mean the christian bible is dead against mastarbation (where i've read it anyway) saying stuff about carnal desires etc...

So... Is he aware that, at least in mainstream hetero porn, the women get paid a helluva lot more than the men? The only person involved whose pay compares is usually the director (which is why Ron Jeremy is so rich... not from acting, but from directing). (As a sidenote, for male actors to get comparable pay they usually have to turn to "gay for pay".) The women are the "stars" and the men are just some anonymous person to be replaced with the male doing the fantasizing.

So in some sense, at least in mainstream porn, does it not marginalize the male actor more than the female actress?

Wow, that's getting into thought crime land. Ask him if he's a big supporter of the PATRIOT Act.

The patriot act?

Maybe they are guilty of murder though....it depends on what you listen to....I mean the christian bible is dead against mastarbation (where i've read it anyway) saying stuff about carnal desires etc...

The specific section that's cited as being anti-masturbatory... that character was actually smited for wasting seed when he was given a direct order to impregnate his wife. Many Catholics don't take that italicized portion into consideration.

So... Is he aware that, at least in mainstream hetero porn, the women get paid a helluva lot more than the men? The only person involved whose pay compares is usually the director (which is why Ron Jeremy is so rich... not from acting, but from directing). (As a sidenote, for male actors to get comparable pay they usually have to turn to "gay for pay".) The women are the "stars" and the men are just some anonymous person to be replaced with the male doing the fantasizing.

So in some sense, at least in mainstream porn, does it not marginalize the male actor more than the female actress?

Hey no argument here, but back to the rape aspect though. Can't you see where he's coming from? I mean you're looking at porn....what do you imagine? do you jack-off? What really is the difference between jacking-off and actully doing the deed?

LOL. This is the funniest question I've heard in a good long while. I don't know, I mean rape and porn both involve sex... right? And that is about it. There is no coercion in porn, either in being in a film or watching one, the actors are well paid, etc. With rape, there is force. There is a willing and unwilling party. That is what makes rape so wrong, and what causes all the psychological damage associated with rape.

If a professor of mine had asked this question I would have laughed in his face. Seriously, just broken out in peals of laughter, that one could be that dumb... and be a proffessor.

Here's a handy example -
Is walking into store and legally purchasing an item the same as coming in with a ski mask on, gun loaded, and forcibly removing that item?
Or for more accuracy - Is paying to watch a security tape of someone legally purchasing an item, the same as entering the store on the tape with ski mask on and gun drawn, and forcibly removing said item?
Because (^) is what he's saying basically.

The specific section that's cited as being anti-masturbatory... that character was actually smited for wasting seed when he was given a direct order to impregnate his wife. Many Catholics don't take that italicized portion into consideration.

But still - some people even non-strict-catholics still believe masturbation is a sin simly because they see the bible (or their own holy book - in other religions) as a list of instructions - You're job is to impregnate a woman and ensure your species survival

Hey no argument here, but back to the rape aspect though. Can't you see where he's coming from? I mean you're looking at porn....what do you imagine? do you jack-off? What really is the difference between jacking-off and actully doing the deed?I have a thing for Ron Jeremy. Is he a rape victim? Am I a rapist?

I have a thing for Ron Jeremy. Is he a rape victim? Am I a rapist?

His beliefs: Can you force parts of your anatomy inside his body? Then yes, to both.
My beliefs: I have no idea.

Hey no argument here, but back to the rape aspect though. Can't you see where he's coming from? I mean you're looking at porn....what do you imagine? do you jack-off? What really is the difference between jacking-off and actully doing the deed?

Well... To be honest, I don't watch much M-F (or F-F for that matter) porn.

However, the fantasizing aspect that accompanies watching porn is always a fantasy of mutual consent, in my case.

Also, to equate thought with action is wrong on its own. To carry through with such an action harms another individual. Imagination harms no one else.

Consider even that many women experience what are called "Rape fantasies". Although the nature of them isn't exactly as the name implies, Margaret Atwood's short story of that title is a good source as to that sort of thing.

Hey no argument here, but back to the rape aspect though. Can't you see where he's coming from? I mean you're looking at porn....what do you imagine? do you jack-off? What really is the difference between jacking-off and actully doing the deed?

I see where he's coming from, sure, left field. The difference is that one is a violent act perpetrated upon an unwilling person and the other is a fantasy carried out entirely in one person's mind. Your professor seeks to punish people for their thoughts.

His beliefs: Can you force parts of your anatomy inside his body? Then yes, to both.
My beliefs: I have no idea.Ok. Yes, I could, and EW!
And rape is not sex. It has nothing to do with sex. It's assault. It's about power, and it's wrong.

And I just had sex with you in my mind. It was good.

Well... To be honest, I don't watch much M-F (or F-F for that matter) porn.

However, the fantasizing aspect that accompanies watching porn is always a fantasy of mutual consent, in my case.

Also, to equate thought with action is wrong on its own. To carry through with such an action harms another individual. Imagination harms no one else.

Consider even that many women experience what are called "Rape fantasies". Although the nature of them isn't exactly as the name implies, Margaret Atwood's short story of that title is a good source as to that sort of thing.

But in the case that theres not much difference between jacking-off and actually doing the deed, you can't argue with that surely?

I think your lecturer has mental issues if he seriously that porn=rape.

Ok. Yes, I could, and EW!
And rape is not sex. It has nothing to do with sex. It's assault. It's about power, and it's wrong.

And I just had sex with you in my mind. It was good.

Was IT good or was I good? Lol. So under that view, SandM is wrong? You know dominatrixes etc

Was IT good or was I good? Lol. So under that view, SandM is wrong? You know dominatrixes etc
No, S&M is not "wrong" if it involves CONSENTING adults.

So under that view, SandM is wrong? You know dominatrixes etc

S&M is also consentual. Some people just... well, like to be dominated.

So in some sense, at least in mainstream porn, does it not marginalize the male actor more than the female actress?
this is one reason why i, as a woman, dont like porn all that much. way too often the man is reduced to a disembodied dick and its as exciting as fantisizing about a dildo.

No, S&M is not "wrong" if it involves CONSENTING adults.

But Oxwana waqs suggesting that it was the power that was wrong...

Tell your lecturer he is a twit with a PC bug up his ass, will ya? :p Seriously, tell him a guy called "New Fubaria" thinks he's a twit with a PC bug up his ass, in those exact words! :D

How could anyone think porn is the same as rape? That makes about as much sense as saying getting paid for a job is the same as stealing from your boss...

But in the case that theres not much difference between jacking-off and actually doing the deed, you can't argue with that surely?

Umm... yes, I can. I refer you back to the video tape of someone purchasing an item legally vs. stealing the item yourself analogy.

this is one reason why i, as a woman, dont like porn all that much. way too often the man is reduced to a disembodied dick and its as exciting as fantisizing about a dildo.

For women probably but not for most men, men can't imagine themselves being the dildo, but they can imagine themselves being the man....

Was IT good or was I good? Lol. So under that view, SandM is wrong? You know dominatrixes etcNo, no. S&M is very, very right. S&M is make-believe. All parties consent to pretend not to consent or pretend to force. Some things that we pretend to do would be no fun at all if it happened for real. Go check out the NS role-play board.
And you were very good. Better than Ron was when I had mind-sex with (about) him.

this is one reason why i, as a woman, dont like porn all that much. way too often the man is reduced to a disembodied dick and its as exciting as fantisizing about a dildo.

Then maybe you should watch gay porn. :p

Tell your lecturer he is a twit with a PC bug up his ass, will ya? :p Seriously, tell him a guy called "New Fubaria" thinks he's a twit with a PC bug up his ass, in those exact words! :D

How could anyone think porn is the same as rape? That makes about as much sense as saying getting paid for a job is the same as stealing from your boss...

Ah but in some cases it is true.....we're forgetting about most builders/plumbers lol....I would tell him that, but he holds my future in his hands....lol

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)

To me, it's a mix of prostitution and rape, in a way, but you have to really think about it. I mean, the people are paid, hince the prostitution thing and what if one or both of the people don't want to do it and the director and whatnot know. Whouldn't that make the whole thing 'rape on tape'?

Hey no argument here, but back to the rape aspect though. Can't you see where he's coming from? I mean you're looking at porn....what do you imagine? do you jack-off? What really is the difference between jacking-off and actully doing the deed?
if you are watching lots of rape porn and imagining yourself raping women, then yeah, you may have a problem. if what you are getting off on is the thought of hurting women and forcing them to do what you want, you might want to think about the implications of that

if you are watching porn featuring people having sex and you imagine yourself having sex right there with them, there is no "rape" in that, just fantasy like pretty much everyone in the world has.

Then maybe you should watch gay porn. :pThat's what I do. I highly recommend it.

That's what I do. I highly recommend it.

Good stuff, it is. :D

So... Is he aware that, at least in mainstream hetero porn, the women get paid a helluva lot more than the men?

You mean they have to PAY the men? :p

No, no. S&M is very, very right. S&M is make-believe. All parties consent to pretend not to consent or pretend to force. Some things that we pretend to do would be no fun at all if it happened for real. Go check out the NS role-play board.
And you were very good. Better than Ron was when I had mind-sex with (about) him.

Ah, but could that be because you've never met me, nor seen a photograph of me...?

But sometimes it is the pretense of consent that is the problem....some people (men and women) there are cases where people have claimed that the victim consented and the victim claimed that he/she didn't....so even the pretense sometimes is a problem leading to rape...

But Oxwana waqs suggesting that it was the power that was wrong...
No, she was suggesting that hurting someone else against their will was wrong, which, I believe, is. Rape is wrong because it is one person forcing another to commit an act which should be enjoyable. It's sick. S&M between CONSENTING adults is not "wrong".

The difference between one masturbating to pornography and raping another human being is that masturbating is not harming any other person. Not only that, those who chose to participate in the making of pornography usually CONSENTED to doing so.

CONSENT is the key word here.

Then maybe you should watch gay porn. :p
if you mean gay MAN porn, i prefer to have fantasies that might have ME in them.

if you mean lesbian porn, i havent ever seen any that wasnt made for men. (not that it doesnt exist, i just havent liked any ive seen so far)

if you are watching lots of rape porn and imagining yourself raping women, then yeah, you may have a problem. if what you are getting off on is the thought of hurting women and forcing them to do what you want, you might want to think about the implications of that

if you are watching porn featuring people having sex and you imagine yourself having sex right there with them, there is no "rape" in that, just fantasy like pretty much everyone in the world has.

But there are a lot of websites out there that cater for just that, people who want to watch men/women being raped....but somehow that isn't illeagal...or, for some people, wrong.

Ah, but could that be because you've never met me, nor seen a photograph of me...?

But sometimes it is the pretense of consent that is the problem....some people (men and women) there are cases where people have claimed that the victim consented and the victim claimed that he/she didn't....so even the pretense sometimes is a problem leading to rape...That's what safe words are for. And, just speaking from my experience, "Get off me" seems to be a universally understood phrase. Men never mistake that for dirty talk. Repeat after me girls: "Get off me!". Yay
There's my community service for the week.
And we had mind sex. Appearances mean nothing with mind-sex.
Rocketman.

To me, it's a mix of prostitution and rape, in a way, but you have to really think about it. I mean, the people are paid, hince the prostitution thing and what if one or both of the people don't want to do it and the director and whatnot know. Whouldn't that make the whole thing 'rape on tape'?
there are cases where someone is forced but they are very rare. for the most part, if someone changes her mind, she just walks away and they use another actor. there is no need to force anyone to do anything these days.

So different alltogether. On entirely different planes of existence.

Am I the only one who sees how dangerous this argument is to creative liscence as well as individuality, freedom of speech, and, well, freedom alltogether?

If you can't watch something, well, that inevitably means you cannot think about it. And if you cannot think about it, you cannot write about it. And if you... well, you get the picture. This man's argument is a direct blow to freedom of consciousness, and freedom of speech - if it was wrong to watch porn as he implies and for the reasons he implies, then it is wrong to do countless other things all correlating to the issue at the root of it all.

Ask him how he would feel if Feminism was declared the equivilent to Racism, and therefore outlawed. Then he would understand the layer cake he's prepared for his class.

No, she was suggesting that hurting someone else against their will was wrong, which, I believe, is. Rape is wrong because it is one person forcing another to commit an act which should be enjoyable. It's sick. S&M between CONSENTING adults is not "wrong".

The difference between one masturbating to pornography and raping another human being is that masturbating is not harming any other person. Not only that, those who chose to participate in the making of pornography usually CONSENTED to doing so.

CONSENT is the key word here.

But the man watching the porn, is imagining himself there....that's the point, and as I said in an earlier post, there are a lot of websites catering for this sort of porn (rape porn), so, you still say that this isn't the same as the man watching it commiting rape himself?

To me, it's a mix of prostitution and rape, in a way, but you have to really think about it. I mean, the people are paid, hince the prostitution thing and what if one or both of the people don't want to do it and the director and whatnot know. Whouldn't that make the whole thing 'rape on tape'?

So because someone COULD be forced it's rape. Doesn't that illogic make all sex rape? As for prositution as long as the prostitute (male of female) is doing so willingly what the hell is wrong with it?

But there are a lot of websites out there that cater for just that, people who want to watch men/women being raped....but somehow that isn't illeagal...or, for some people, wrong.

It's not illegal (or "wrong", necessarily) in that it's nothing more than Role Playing... in which case still isn't really the same as the action. (Comparable to playing a thief in a movie vs. stealing an item in a store, referring back to the same analogy).

if you mean gay MAN porn, i prefer to have fantasies that might have ME in them.

if you mean lesbian porn, i havent ever seen any that wasnt made for men. (not that it doesnt exist, i just havent liked any ive seen so far)

Just guessing, I would say that the reason guys like lesbian porn much more than girls like gay porn is probably because most girls don't particularaly enjoy getting fucked up the ass or giving oral.

But the man watching the porn, is imagining himself there....that's the point, and as I said in an earlier post, there are a lot of websites catering for this sort of porn (rape porn), so, you still say that this isn't the same as the man watching it commiting rape himself?

No, because the action was never completed. That is why imagining or fantasizing about murdering someone isn't murder (albeit weird) if the act is never committed. Rape is only rape if the man in question actually forces sex with a woman.

But there are a lot of websites out there that cater for just that, people who want to watch men/women being raped....but somehow that isn't illeagal...or, for some people, wrong.
if its real rape, its illegal. not to show but for the people who did the rape itself. if its acting, which 99.9% of the time it is, its just catering to peoples fantasies like any other fantasy out there.

its not WRONG to fantasize about rape. its just kinda creepy, especially if thats ALL you fantasize about. thats why if you are that kind of person, you might want to think about it.

there are all sorts of ugly things on the net. very few are illegal (child porn comes to mind). ugly is not the same thing as rape.

Pornography is consensual in all regards, as far as I can tell.

However, the very fact that men are willing to pay money to watch a naked woman without getting to know anything else about her personality or character tells me that they value those women about as much as a rapist values a rape victim.

Not that I could possibly look down on other men who fall into the trap of pornography. I have these thoughts all the time. :eek: The curse of being a man, maybe. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

if you mean gay MAN porn, i prefer to have fantasies that might have ME in them.

if you mean lesbian porn, i havent ever seen any that wasnt made for men. (not that it doesnt exist, i just havent liked any ive seen so far)


Try M-M-F Bi porn, then.

Just guessing, I would say that the reason guys like lesbian porn much more than girls like gay porn is probably because most girls don't particularaly enjoy getting fucked up the ass or giving oral.We don't? Thanks for the heads-up.

That's what safe words are for. And, just speaking from my experience, "Get off me" seems to be a universally understood phrase. Men never mistake that for dirty talk. Repeat after me girls: "Get off me!". Yay
There's my community service for the week.
And we had mind sex. Appearances mean nothing with mind-sex.
Rocketman.

I like the sound of that....mind sex....i gotta remember that one, my g/f'd love it. lol.

the thing is.....some men DO 'mistake "get off me" as dirty talk' that's why the world has as many rapes as it does...

No, because the action was never completed. That is why imagining or fantasizing about murdering someone isn't murder (albeit weird) if the act is never committed. Rape is only rape if the man in question actually forces sex with a woman.
Precisely.
For example, I play Grand Theft Auto. I love the game. I run around and I kill innocent bystanders, I pick up prostitutes, I hold up stores and shoot clerks in the back of their heads while they have their hands up.
Am I committing murders? Am I, in my tangible body, having sex with prostitutes? No, because physically I've never left my seat, and I haven't harmed a single soul.

But the man watching the porn, is imagining himself there....that's the point, and as I said in an earlier post, there are a lot of websites catering for this sort of porn (rape porn), so, you still say that this isn't the same as the man watching it commiting rape himself?
No, it isn't. Do you think it is "wrong" to have fantasies about sex with another human being? :eek: That is only natural behavior!

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)

I highly doubt this is an accurate statement of your lecturer's beliefs.

At a minimum, I think it is likely a gross overgeneralization.

As stated, I'm not sure I am familiar with anyone -- feminist or otherwise -- that believes all pornography is "just the same" as rape.

There are some that think that some pornography causes or increases sex crimes.

There are some that think that some forms of pornography involves sex crimes -- including rape. (Which emperically is true. At least sometimes rape has been filmed and shown as pornography.)

There are some that think some pornography is similar to/analogous to sex crimes -- including rape.

There are some that object to the fact that some pornography displays sex crimes -- including rape -- for purient purposes.

Now, the extent to which one believes any of the above is true at all and, to the extent to which one believes any of the above is true, how much of the world of pornography it extends to are hotly debated.

Some of the strongest advocates on both sides of the issue are feminists.

That's what safe words are for. And, just speaking from my experience, "Get off me" seems to be a universally understood phrase. Men never mistake that for dirty talk. Repeat after me girls: "Get off me!". Yay
There's my community service for the week.
And we had mind sex. Appearances mean nothing with mind-sex.
Rocketman.

Actualy depending on what sort of game is being played it can be. That's why bannana or breakfast is a much better safty word.

No, because the action was never completed. That is why imagining or fantasizing about murdering someone isn't murder (albeit weird) if the act is never committed. Rape is only rape if the man in question actually forces sex with a woman.

But in the mans mind, the act IS committed. There are certain stats about people who stalk for instance, when they stalk they begin by jacking-off over their "victim" and then get closer and closer, breaking in stealing underwear etc, until finally the act is fully completed - with the woman that he has been fantasising about for so long...

Actualy depending on what sort of game is being played it can be. That's why bannana or breakfast is a much better safty word.

Or Philidelphia!

(If anyone gets that reference.)

I like the sound of that....mind sex....i gotta remember that one, my g/f'd love it. lol.

the thing is.....some men DO 'mistake "get off me" as dirty talk' that's why the world has as many rapes as it does...No, a lot of men mistake "no!" and "stop" and "you're hurting me" as dirty talk. Trust me, "get off me" always works.

<SNIP>

Those were actually his exact words - written down in my lecture and recorded by my dictaphone.

But in the mans mind, the act IS committed. There are certain stats about people who stalk for instance, when they stalk they begin by jacking-off over their "victim" and then get closer and closer, breaking in stealing underwear etc, until finally the act is fully completed - with the woman that he has been fantasising about for so long...

But imagining a crime does not equal the crime. I"m sure that the vast majority of male sexual fantasies would never be able to be legally fulfilled in action; would this mean that those men are guilty of rape? The answer is no, because in the end they never actually acted on that desire.

Stalking is different than fantasizing; just because someone fantasizes doesn't mean they will become obsessed with the woman involved. People who do that almost always have some kind of disorder that prevents them from distinguishing fantasy from reality.

Ah but in some cases it is true.....we're forgetting about most builders/plumbers lol....I would tell him that, but he holds my future in his hands....lol
lets be serious about this for a minute. if you are in film and media your whole career is going to be filled with assholes with your future in their hands. to succeed you are going to have to pick your fights carefully.

so ask yourself, is calling this guy on his assholishness worth what its going to do to your schooling? i advise you to use him as practice in getting along with fools. it is of course up to you.

if you want to be able to get along with him read susan brownmiller's "against our will: men women and rape". its a feminist classic that will be in the library. take a few notes so you can toss in a quote here and there to impress him. read several andrea dworkin books, she was big on "all sex is rape" as well as porn as rape for a while. there are some other feminist anti porn books out there that you will find in the womens studies section of the book store.

you dont have to agree with him to see the point he is making. you just have to understand it enough to throw in an "insightful" comment here and there.

it will be great practice for later on when every boss you ever have is a flaming asshole who has to be placated in order to get anything done.

I think your lecturer has mental issues if he seriously that porn=rape.

:eek: :D

No, it isn't. Do you think it is "wrong" to have fantasies about sex with another human being? :eek: That is only natural behavior!

Is it wrong to buy an urchin shell from a guy by a beach, even though you know they an urchin has been killed for that shell by that guy, probably brutally. Is it wrong to buy ivory from an ivory dealer even though you know it's illeagal to kill elephants?

No, a lot of men mistake "no!" and "stop" and "you're hurting me" as dirty talk. Trust me, "get off me" always works.

Some consenting adults choose to role play raping or being raped. In that situation (which is NOT rape only pretend) "Get off me" could conceavably be mistaken as part of the game. Hence using a word that will be a compleat non-sequiter.

But in the mans mind, the act IS committed. There are certain stats about people who stalk for instance, when they stalk they begin by jacking-off over their "victim" and then get closer and closer, breaking in stealing underwear etc, until finally the act is fully completed - with the woman that he has been fantasising about for so long...
You're really, really stretching to support your professor's theory. This isn't stalking, this is simple, stay-at-home masturbation. Something you see monkeys do at the zoo.

You're argument basically states that we are to be held responsible for our thoughts rather than our actions.

Maybe it's the same as rape in the minds of some men who want to fantasize about rape (and there is a surprisingly large population of women who fantasize about it as well), but for the most part, it's just a good old shagging in the minds of men.

Why does it have to be rape, anyways? Why can't it be a consensual one-night stand, or a couple making love without all the garbage before and after? Your Lecturer has put this in the worst possible context to make for a more interesting debate, but there is nothing substantial to his claim.

But in the mans mind, the act IS committed. There are certain stats about people who stalk for instance, when they stalk they begin by jacking-off over their "victim" and then get closer and closer, breaking in stealing underwear etc, until finally the act is fully completed - with the woman that he has been fantasising about for so long...

That's almost as gross a distortion as the "100% of sex offenders start as masturbators" faux argument. How often does it actually translate into doing the act?

I'm sure 100% of murderers had at one point fantasized about killing someone.
Then again, I'm sure a large majority of the general population has fantasized about it at some point or another.

It's also reminiscient of a very very weak slippery slope argument, which, by their nature are weak arguments to begin with.

Also, wrong, no matter how you try to twist it, can only be defined in terms of actions and how those effect other people, because, in the end, those are the only things that are able to be perceived by all and the only things that effect others.

Maybe they are guilty of murder though....it depends on what you listen to....I mean the christian bible is dead against mastarbation (where i've read it anyway) saying stuff about carnal desires etc...

Even if I allow that masterbation is wrong (and I don't), that only would show that watching it is wrong, not that making it or being in it is. The difference would then be the difference between having a carnal desire, and going out to fufill that desire on an unwilling victim. Clearly, the latter is worse, and is a very different case.

No, a lot of men mistake "no!" and "stop" and "you're hurting me" as dirty talk. Trust me, "get off me" always works.

Tell that to my girlfriend's best mate who was raped, the only thing she can remember saying during the "act" is "get off me"

Those were actually his exact words - written down in my lecture and recorded by my dictaphone.

Either you are in error or he is an idiot. (Possibly both.)

There are many valid viewpoints similar/related to connections/comparisons between pornography and sex crimes including rape. All pornography = rape isn't one of them.

Perhaps he was being provocative. I'm sure there must be some related reading. And some context to the statement.

Some consenting adults choose to role play raping or being raped. In that situation (which is NOT rape only pretend) "Get off me" could conceavably be mistaken as part of the game. Hence using a word that will be a compleat non-sequiter.I may or may not have, um, "experience" in that area. "Get off me is" the one that works. Just trust me on this one.

I highly doubt this is an accurate statement of your lecturer's beliefs.

At a minimum, I think it is likely a gross overgeneralization.

As stated, I'm not sure I am familiar with anyone -- feminist or otherwise -- that believes all pornography is "just the same" as rape.

There are some that think that some pornography causes or increases sex crimes.

There are some that think that some forms of pornography involves sex crimes -- including rape. (Which emperically is true. At least sometimes rape has been filmed and shown as pornography.)

There are some that think some pornography is similar to/analogous to sex crimes -- including rape.

There are some that object to the fact that some pornography displays sex crimes -- including rape -- for purient purposes.


I have heard of some who claim that ALL sex is rape. Never underestimate stupidity, it's more common in out universe than hydrogen.

Is it wrong to buy an urchin shell from a guy by a beach, even though you know they an urchin has been killed for that shell by that guy, probably brutally. Is it wrong to buy ivory from an ivory dealer even though you know it's illeagal to kill elephants?
Neither one of those is a natural behavior, nor do they include intelligent human beings, nor have anything to do with pure entertainment value.

In answer to your questions, the first is not, in my opinion, and the second is. However, my opinion on either one is irrelevant as your comparison is clearly flawed.

Tell that to my girlfriend's best mate who was raped, the only thing she can remember saying during the "act" is "get off me"

No, I beleive he is saying that it alwayse works in S&M roleplay where the dominant individual actualy respects the wishes of the submisive one. Of course it would not work durring a real rape because rapists are assholes.

Tell that to my girlfriend's best mate who was raped, the only thing she can remember saying during the "act" is "get off me""Get off me" is not some magic rape-stopping bullet. It's the most effective way to convey that the fun is over; that you no longer give your consent.

I have heard of some who claim that ALL sex is rape. Never unserestimate stupidity, it's more common in out universe than hydrogen.

The actual feminists who are alleged to have claimed that sex is rape never actually said that. Not even close.

Although the sex = rape argument is usually believed to exist by those that use it to ridicule feminists, there are undoubtedly some misguided idiots that believe it.

You are right that idiots of all kinds exist out there.

My primary point is that pornography = rape is not a view of anyone of significance.

(And, I still think Of the underpants misunderstood and/or is not explaining the context of what his/her lecturer said.)

Neither one of those is a natural behavior, nor do they include intelligent human beings, nor have anything to do with pure entertainment value.

In answer to your questions, the first is not, in my opinion, and the second is. However, my opinion on either one is irrelevant as your comparison is clearly flawed.

No, in buying rape-porn, you are telling the makers to make more, more realistic rape-porn, as with both, the urchins and the elephants.

No, I beleive he is saying that it alwayse works in S&M roleplay where the dominant individual actualy respects the wishes of the submisive one. Of course it would not work durring a real rape because rapists are assholes.Thank you.

But in the case that theres not much difference between jacking-off and actually doing the deed, you can't argue with that surely?
What about men who feel the urge to rape women but instead decide to watch porn and jack-off? Are they still rapists?

No, in buying rape-porn, you are telling the makers to make more, more realistic rape-porn, as with both, the urchins and the elephants.
I was not aware you were referring to a specific type of porn. However, rape is still a physical sexual act, not a mental one. Imagining rape or fantasizing about it is not wrong in and of itself. For some people, that what they naturally associate with sex. Commiting the actual physical act would be.

I think it's worth pointing out that the use of the word feminist thus far has been moreso feminazi. Nearly everyone (in most developed countries) is a feminist in its true, original sense. My ex girlfriend was always irked by both the misuse of the word feminist and being called a feminazi, so I felt obligated to point it out. :p

The actual feminists who are alleged to have claimed that sex is rape never actually said that. Not even close.

Although the sex = rape argument is usually believed to exist by those that use it to ridicule feminists, there are undoubtedly some misguided idiots that believe it.

You are right that idiots of all kinds exist out there.

My primary point is that pornography = rape is not a view of anyone of significance.

(And, I still think Of the underpants misunderstood and/or is not explaining the context of what his/her lecturer said.)

Transcript: "It is my personal belief that pornography is the same as rape"

He was talking about feminism and giving examples of feminism....this is his actual view - i've been to enough staff-student socials to know that this is his actual view.

Saying pornography is the same as rape is absurd. If porn is equavilant to rape, then simply having sexual thoughts must be equavilant to rape, too. Rape is something that is forced. If the people involved are involved willingly and the people watching it are doing so willingly, then it can't be considered on the same level as rape. As long as nothing is forced, it's fine.

I don't believe nybody with that skewed a view on, well, anything, has ny business being an educator.

What if you were imagining yourself in the place of the guy, but then inserted an imaginary woman in the place of the actual woman. Would that still be rape by your teacher's standards, if you're not imagining a real girl? Can you rape the idea of a person that doesn't exist?

I was not aware you were referring to a specific type of porn. However, rape is still a physical sexual act, not a mental one. Imagining rape or fantasizing about it is not wrong in and of itself. For some people, that what they naturally associate with sex. Commiting the actual physical act would be.

I wasn't originally, but now it seems to have gone that way...

I don't believe nybody with that skewed a view on, well, anything, has ny business being an educator.
I don't think anybody has any business being an "educator", either. :p

Its patently absurd. Probably a provacative comment meant to stimulate intellectual discussion, otherwise its the rantings of a sadly deluded induvidual with sexual identity problems.

Porn is a form of legalised prostitution, Rape is a form of assault. Two very different things even on the surface.

I have heard of some who claim that ALL sex is rape. Never underestimate stupidity, it's more common in out universe than hydrogen.

That is almost one of his other beliefs, that is, he has been known to agree with that, but seeing that him and his wife are trying for kids, I guess he doesn't really believe that one.

I think this man needs to get his testicles back.
Nah...he need to be butt raped...so he can tell the differnce...

nothing like first hand experience... :D

Nah...he need to but raped...so he can tell the differnce...

nothing like first hand experience... :D

That's no way near funny. If you truly believe that, then do you really deserve to be living?

That is almost one of his other beliefs, that is, he has been known to agree with that, but seeing that him and his wife are trying for kids, I guess he doesn't really believe that one.

Or possibly he doesn't feel that it applies to him, or doesn't care because he knows his version of rape is socially legitimized.

Or possibly he doesn't feel that it applies to him, or doesn't care because he knows his version of rape is socially legitimized.

Then you're suggesting that he is a knowing rapist?

That's no way near funny. If you truly believe that, then do you really deserve to be living?It was not funny; it was in extremely poor taste... but I kind of agree. I'm not sure how many rape victims would appreciate this guy equating their suffering to a lucrative career (as a female porn star). There's a big difference, and your prof really needs to know that.

Well it seems pretty obvious by the poll what the general opinion is. I don't think ive ever seen such a one sided poll

It was not funny; it was in extremely poor taste... but I kind of agree. I'm not sure how many rape victims would appreciate this guy equating their suffering to a lucrative career (as a female porn star). There's a big difference, and your prof really needs to know that.

Fair comment I suppose...but are you seriously suggesting someone should rape my lecturer?

It's pretty damn simple. These they just usually just asked if they want to be flimed. Everyone is a porn star these days. In the 60s, 70s and 80s, it was all just flims and magazines and these films would regularly star the big porn stars and "b-list" porn stars. Now every that agrees to be filmed is one, and likely they're not going to be doing more (becuase most of the ones I seen are were they ask girls off the street). So no, porn is not rape if your asked to do it. It may seem like rape but it's not.

So who on here actually agrees with my lecturer? someone sure does....

So who on here actually agrees with my lecturer? someone sure does....

I can't agree because how can you compare a regulated industry to rape. Porn has safeguards against things like STD's and has their own union. Rape is just abuse.

I can't agree because how can you compare a regulated industry to rape. Porn has safeguards against things like STD's and has their own union. Rape is just abuse.

Some rapists use condoms, that's safeguard against STDs...does that mean they're allowed?

So who on here actually agrees with my lecturer? someone sure does....

Nah, only about 6 people do, which falls within the margin of error.

Those butterfly poll options confuse the elderly. You're lucky people didn't pick "Pat Bucannon" as an option...or Myrth ;)

Some rapists use condoms, that's safeguard against STDs...does that mean they're allowed?

Obviously there are other things that was just one example. Rapists sometimes physically abuse their victims whereas porn stars do not without the abused agreeing. Women porn stars are paid quite a bit of money. Whereas rape victims are paid in mental issues.
Porn stars choose to be in the position they are in (pardon the pun) they have decided to do said line of work. Rape victims haven't chosen to be raped (except Kurt Cobain).

A better comparrison for me would be Porn stars and Prostitutes

Nah, only about 6 people do, which falls within the margin of error.

Those butterfly poll options confuse the elderly. You're lucky people didn't pick "Pat Bucannon" as an option...or Myrth ;)

They didn't pick those as an option, because i didn't put them as an option. It's 8 people actually...one of those is me, I just wanna know who the other 7 are.

Pornography is a vast category of literature, films, audio and visual aids to help obtain sexual gratification.

Rape is a non-consensual act.

Unless the subject of the porn is underage, mentally deficient, was forced, or was under the influence (that is, unable to give consent) it is not rape.

I don't think anybody has any business being an "educator", either. :p

O_O Have I missed something here?

<SNIP> Rapists sometimes physically abuse their victims </SNIP>

Explain...

O_O Have I missed something here?
Everyone has extremely skewed views towards something.

NAY, it is not. :fluffle:

They didn't pick those as an option, because i didn't put them as an option. It's 8 people actually...one of those is me, I just wanna know who the other 7 are.
in what way do you think that porn is rape?

setting aside porn that IS pictures of rape or by women who were forced into it. do you think that photos and films of 2 consenting adults having sex is always a form of rape?

Explain...

Sorry I see what you mean now. Rape is already a physical abuse in the first place. I meant more specifically that rapists will punch strangle and bruise their victims into submission. Rapists could also use a weapon to make people have sex with them

This is not allowed without specific consent in the porn industry

Fair comment I suppose...but are you seriously suggesting someone should rape my lecturer?No.

in what way do you think that porn is rape?

setting aside porn that IS pictures of rape or by women who were forced into it. do you think that photos and films of 2 consenting adults having sex is always a form of rape?

Yes, in a way. The man viewing the pictures/videos knows full-well what he is doing and does intend to do with his part. (I am male, I'd like to re-explain). In the sense of the man he IS raping the woman - she doesn't know that he, specifically, wants to have sex with her, and he IS, for his sake, having sex with her. Therefore he is raing her.

Sorry I see what you mean now. Rape is already a physical abuse in the first place. I meant more specifically that rapists will punch strangle and bruise their victims into submission. Rapists could also use a weapon to make people have sex with them

This is not allowed without specific consent in the porn industry

Fair enough...but then even with consent, surely the person allowing these things to happen to her has something mentally wrong with her, so therefore any subsequent sexua act on a mans part with said woman is rape, because she is not in sound mind.

Fair enough...but then even with consent, surely the person allowing these things to happen to her has something mentally wrong with her, so therefore any subsequent sexua act on a mans part with said woman is rape, because she is not in sound mind.

if she is mentally incoherent . Then she's not allowed to be in porn because its a form of rape as far as i know. But if she is of sane mind then she thinks the moneys worth it. Don't ask me to understand why, but it surely goes on.

I highly doubt it as the women, however exploited, are paid, though I suppose you could consider it so broadly, perhaps wage rape in the same sense as wage slavery. I tend to go for hentai myself to sidestep this issue.

Fair enough...but then even with consent, surely the person allowing these things to happen to her has something mentally wrong with her, so therefore any subsequent sexua act on a mans part with said woman is rape, because she is not in sound mind.Excuse me?
She must have something mentally wrong with her? A few pages ago someone posted that he was surprised that the guys had to get paid at all. Macho men and messed up women, is that it? It's easy money, and I would imagine, an enjoyable career. I'd do it. Am I not of sound mind?
Hoser.

Yes, in a way. The man viewing the pictures/videos knows full-well what he is doing and does intend to do with his part. (I am male, I'd like to re-explain). In the sense of the man he IS raping the woman - she doesn't know that he, specifically, wants to have sex with her, and he IS, for his sake, having sex with her. Therefore he is raping her.
No, he is not. In most porn, the woman has CONSENTED to participate in the filming.
Definition of rape: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Arape&btnG=Google+Search
force (someone) to have sex against their will; "The woman was raped on her way home at night"
the crime of forcing a woman to submit to sexual intercourse against her will
Rape is a crime wherein the victim is forced into sexual activity against his or her will. Effectively, it co-opts the victim's own sexual anatomy as a weapon of domination. It is considered, by most societies, to be among the most severe crimes.
(Emphasis mine)
Every definition of rape in the literal sense includes the words "force" and the phrase "against one's will" or "without the victim's consent". Not only that, it includes the actual act of sexual intercourse. Therefore, pornography is not rape by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, in a way. The man viewing the pictures/videos knows full-well what he is doing and does intend to do with his part. (I am male, I'd like to re-explain). In the sense of the man he IS raping the woman - she doesn't know that he, specifically, wants to have sex with her, and he IS, for his sake, having sex with her. Therefore he is raing her.

So fantasy is rape? What about fictional characters? Can you rape Jessica Rabbit? You seem to be confused in your definitions here. Thought is action?

Remember, the man is not imagining that he is RAPING the woman by definition, he could be, but that's a fetish thing. The man is imagining a sexual liasion with a woman on a TV screen or other medium. That's fantasy, not reality.

If an induvidual cannot tell the different between reality and fantasy...

if she is mentally incoherent . Then she's not allowed to be in porn because its a form of rape as far as i know. But if she is of sane mind then she thinks the moneys worth it. Don't ask me to understand why, but it surely goes on.

But to sacrafice your body to something of that magnitude....sex should only be given in love not anything else....then they are surely insane, then anyone doing things to her are raping her.

Excuse me?
She must have something mentally wrong with her? A few pages ago someone posted that he was surprised that the guys had to get paid at all. Macho men and messed up women, is that it? It's easy money, and I would imagine, an enjoyable career. I'd do it. Am I not of sound mind?
Hoser.

Of the underpants, was talking about a specific type of porn where the women get physically abused eg hit, kicked and give the impretion they are being raped on film

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)
Umm, right, I wouldn't pay much mind to anything your lecturer has to say if he's that stupid. Though listening to his arguement for such a belief would probably be good for a laugh...

Prostitution maybe, but definitely not rape.

But to sacrafice your body to something of that magnitude....sex should only be given in love not anything else....then they are surely insane, then anyone doing things to her are raping her.

If she wants to make money that way then its not for us to judge. If it is within the law then we should accept it.

Consider that possibly The only real Similarity between Rape and Pornography is that they both view the victim/subject? as objects. In most discussions I've had with feminists, the objection to pornography is more that the sexual act(s) being perpetrated are shaping attitudes and reinforcing values that tend to objectify women than it is about the pornography itself....similar issue to beauty shows.

:confused: ;) No rape is having sex. Porn is just pictures :

If she wants to make money that way then its not for us to judge. If it is within the law then we should accept it.

But what I'm saying is that it SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW...think about it, if you try to commit suicide, you have a mental illness; if you self-harm, you have a mental illness therefore, if you allow yourself to be beaten and "raped" then you have a mental illness and anyone, ANYONE taking advantage of that is a rapist.

I think his beliefs stem from the fact that every male watching porn has the equipment with which to rape the woman in the movie/picture, and in fact, in theory, imagines himself in the part of the male on the movie/picture.

Except that most televisions, that ive seen at least, dont have the equipment to be raped

Pornography is the same as rape?...this teacher of yours must not understand what rape means.

But to sacrafice your body to something of that magnitude....sex should only be given in love not anything else....then they are surely insane, then anyone doing things to her are raping her.
but underpants, throughout the ages women have been given in marriage to men they dont know, have stayed with men they no longer love, have bartered sex for security or favors.

and what about the women who enjoy going out on a friday evening in hopes of bring a man home with her? she certainly doesnt LOVE him. she is wanting a good sexual experience. you think she is crazy?

are prostitutes nutz? is it rape for a man to visit a brothel?

women have sex for lots of reasons other than love. its not rape for a man to oblige her as long as she is completely willing to complete the transaction. to deny her right to use her sexuality as she sees fit is, as you have, to deny her very humanity (by reducing her to an insane person incapable of consent). we may not agree with her choice but its hers to make.

and just why ISNT it crazy for a man to have sex with women he doesnt love? are you sure the prostitute isnt raping the insane man just to get his money?

I highly doubt it as the women, however exploited, are paid, though I suppose you could consider it so broadly, perhaps wage rape in the same sense as wage slavery. I tend to go for hentai myself to sidestep this issue.

Mmhmm, ive been thinking alot lately about the thin line between prostitution and pornography, i promise ive had plenty of research ;)

I find it extremely difficult to figure out how anyone could equate pornography with rape. Although I happen to watch porn on occassion, I realize that it does tend to cheapen sex, particularly those awful sites which refer to women in derogatory terms and refer to the acts men perform on them as "abuse" or "humiliation." That not only cheapens the sexual act, it degrades both the women who appear in the movies and the men who "abuse" them.

Any form of relationship, including transient sexual encounters, is based on a degree of trust and mutual respect. If it's not, then it may indeed be "abuse" or "humiliation."

By what distorted view of people can we justify calling the females who appear in porn "sluts," "whores," "bitches," or even the highly impersonal "MILF," ( Mothers I'd Love to F**k ) while referring to the male actors as men, guys or whatever?

In this sense, porn may indeed have some of the same effects on the female actresses as rape does on victims. But it's still leagues away from the total domination and violation inflicted on a rape victim. Comparing porno to rape, IMHO, tends to devalue the impact rape has on its victims.

But what I'm saying is that it SHOULD BE AGAINST THE LAW...think about it, if you try to commit suicide, you have a mental illness; if you self-harm, you have a mental illness therefore, if you allow yourself to be beaten and "raped" then you have a mental illness and anyone, ANYONE taking advantage of that is a rapist.

But these people don't have a mental illness

Of the underpants, was talking about a specific type of porn where the women get physically abused eg hit, kicked and give the impretion they are being raped on filmAnd?

The only probably thing about rape in pornography is probably those really cheap Asian pornography, where they force poor girls into taping them. But thats the same with prostitution, just adding a camera.

Then again, there are many types of prostitution. Some do it because it's easy cash. And there's some forced into it.

Pornography is a willing sexual act viewed for the purpose of self gratifiication,
Rape is the act of forcing a sexual act on another person,
very similar to prostitution but not at all to rape.

but underpants, throughout the ages women have been given in marriage to men they dont know, have stayed with men they no longer love, have bartered sex for security or favors.

and what about the women who enjoy going out on a friday evening in hopes of bring a man home with her? she certainly doesnt LOVE him. she is wanting a good sexual experience. you think she is crazy?

are prostitutes nutz? is it rape for a man to visit a brothel?

women have sex for lots of reasons other than love. its not rape for a man to oblige her as long as she is completely willing to complete the transaction. to deny her right to use her sexuality as she sees fit is, as you have, to deny her very humanity (by reducing her to an insane person incapable of consent). we may not agree with her choice but its hers to make.

and just why ISNT it crazy for a man to have sex with women he doesnt love? are you sure the prostitute isnt raping the insane man just to get his money?

Hey, I never said it wasn't crazy for a man to have sex with a woman he doesn't love - I think all porn stars are crazy!! I am very much in love with my girlfriend and we didn't have sex until we were both very sure that we were both in love. I personally think that anyone that has sex without love is as insane as michael jackson.

Well i consider that first of all flaming, second a strange view point.
As much as i enjoy being called mentaly unstable its strange for me to think of the natural instinct of sex as a mental illness any more than is eating and drinking.

But these people don't have a mental illness

So what, people who attemp to commit suicide also have no mental illness? because they are allowing harm to come to their bodies, which is a recognisable mental illness....ask anyone and they will say that self harmers have a mental illness, so anyone who allows themselves to be beaten and"raped" must also have a mental illness because they are allowing someone to harm their bodies!!

I personally think that anyone that has sex without love is as insane as michael jackson.

O GOD O GOD WERE ALL GOING TO DIE..... I'm sorry but that just comes to mind if that statement is true.

Hey, I never said it wasn't crazy for a man to have sex with a woman he doesn't love - I think all porn stars are crazy!! I am very much in love with my girlfriend and we didn't have sex until we were both very sure that we were both in love. I personally think that anyone that has sex without love is as insane as michael jackson.
see now i can understand calling it stupid, immoral, dangerous, shortsighted, maybe even demeaning, but not crazy. people make these decisions in full possession of their faculties.

ask anyone and they will say that self harmers have a mental illness, so anyone who allows themselves to be beaten and"raped" must also have a mental illness because they are allowing someone to harm their bodies!!

Some people say there's a fine line between fear, pain and pleasure. Caused by Chemicals produced in our brain, sometimes we can't differentiate it.

Some girls/guys just like to do it for it's kicks. But in a safe and controlled environment. Pain... But not harmed. No one wants to be harmed, maybe bruised.

Hence bondage.. rape scenario's etc. Not that they want to get raped-per se. But the thrill on both sides, especially the feeling of power, submission and animalistic lust.

I personally think that anyone that has sex without love is as insane as michael jackson.

Have to admit, I'll like to agree with you.

But It's not true in most cases. Sex should be with love, but sometimes it just isn't with love. And to call it insane is also uncalled for.

It's lustful sex, sex without boundries or restrictions or personal attachment involved. Just pleasing the flesh, in other words.

see now i can understand calling it stupid, immoral, dangerous, shortsighted, maybe even demeaning, but not crazy. people make these decisions in full possession of their faculties.

But the point of sex is to make babies (yes and the enjoyable factor as well), you don't wanna make babies with someone you don't love because then you'd be stuck with him/her for the rest of your life (one way or another). (even the enjoyable factor isn't enjoyable when you're thinking, Oh my god, we could get pregnant by mistake) But if you're with someone you love, this simply isn't a problem, because you love her/him and want to spend the rest of your life with her/him anyway.

Originally Posted by Of the underpants
"... anyone who allows themselves to be beaten and"raped" must also have a mental illness because they are allowing someone to harm their bodies!!"

Please, please tell me you didn't mean this the way it sounds! :(

Some people say there's a fine line between fear, pain and pleasure. Caused by Chemicals produced in our brain, sometimes we can't differentiate it.

Some girls/guys just like to do it for it's kicks. But in a safe and controlled environment. Pain... But not harmed. No one wants to be harmed, maybe bruised.

Hence bondage.. rape scenario's etc. Not that they want to get raped-per se. But the thrill on both sides, especially the feeling of power, submission and animalistic lust.

You have worded it better than me so yeah I agree

Some people say there's a fine line between fear, pain and pleasure. Caused by Chemicals produced in our brain, sometimes we can't differentiate it.

Some girls/guys just like to do it for it's kicks. But in a safe and controlled environment. Pain... But not harmed. No one wants to be harmed, maybe bruised.

Hence bondage.. rape scenario's etc. Not that they want to get raped-per se. But the thrill on both sides, especially the feeling of power, submission and animalistic lust.

Now, that's going into the realms of zoophilia, which apprently isn't illeagal in most states in the US......that is truly wrong.

But the point of sex is to make babies (yes and the enjoyable factor as well), you don't wanna make babies with someone you don't love because then you'd be stuck with him/her for the rest of your life (one way or another). (even the enjoyable factor isn't enjoyable when you're thinking, Oh my god, we could get pregnant by mistake) But if you're with someone you love, this simply isn't a problem, because you love her/him and want to spend the rest of your life with her/him anyway.
"The point of sex" is far, far more than the simple act of procreation. It has many emotional and psychological, and perhaps even spiritual, effects as well as the obvious physical ones.

Some people say there's a fine line between fear, pain and pleasure. Caused by Chemicals produced in our brain, sometimes we can't differentiate it.

Some girls/guys just like to do it for it's kicks. But in a safe and controlled environment. Pain... But not harmed. No one wants to be harmed, maybe bruised.

Hence bondage.. rape scenario's etc. Not that they want to get raped-per se. But the thrill on both sides, especially the feeling of power, submission and animalistic lust.Well said.

But the point of sex is to make babies (yes and the enjoyable factor as well), you don't wanna make babies with someone you don't love because then you'd be stuck with him/her for the rest of your life (one way or another). (even the enjoyable factor isn't enjoyable when you're thinking, Oh my god, we could get pregnant by mistake) But if you're with someone you love, this simply isn't a problem, because you love her/him and want to spend the rest of your life with her/him anyway.
anytime you have sex when you dont want to get pregnant you worryabout it. its always something of a problem when you have an unwanted pregnancy.

that still doesnt make it nutz to have sex with someone you dont love. just risky

Now, that's going into the realms of zoophilia, which apprently isn't illeagal in most states in the US......that is truly wrong.
"Zoophilia?" Huh??? It appears you suffer from a lack of information in this topic area. :(

I'm not done reading all the posts, but I'd just like to say:
Thought != Action
So no, I don't think porn is equal to rape, not even rape porn.

"The point of sex" is far, far more than the simple act of procreation. It has many emotional and psychological, and perhaps even spiritual, effects as well as the obvious physical ones.

Even more reason to only have sex with someone you love!

I personally think that anyone that has sex without love is as insane as michael jackson.

I think its giving in to carnal needs. Some need to be satisfied more than others. The annoying thing about love is its not made to order.
I know I will want to have sex again but I don't think I will ever love again. I know I'm only 20 and young to say such a thing but I believe it to be true.

anytime you have sex when you dont want to get pregnant you worryabout it. its always something of a problem when you have an unwanted pregnancy.

that still doesnt make it nutz to have sex with someone you dont love. just risky

Which ruins the enjoyment of sex anyway, so why do it, and why watch people doing it? *yawn* I'm tired now.

Now, that's going into the realms of zoophilia, which apprently isn't illeagal in most states in the US......that is truly wrong.

you mean beastiality? Sex with animals? And no it isn't .

Even more reason to only have sex with someone you love!
Please define "love" for me.

you mean beastiality? Sex with animals? And no it isn't .
Yep. It really should be illeagal all over the world, it is wrong in every sense of the word.


Love is where you know you want to spend every minute of every day with someone, where you can be yourself, where you know you can rely on the other to feel the same, where you light up everytime she walks into the room (and i don't mean a ciggarette), where you feel unconditional gratitude, and warmth towards the other person, where you just know you want to spend the rest of your life with this person. This is what love is.

But the point of sex is to make babies (yes and the enjoyable factor as well), you don't wanna make babies with someone you don't love because then you'd be stuck with him/her for the rest of your life (one way or another). (even the enjoyable factor isn't enjoyable when you're thinking, Oh my god, we could get pregnant by mistake)

Oh boy,

Though I'm a conservative christian, and I share the same views with you. That sex should be for married couples though.

But it just doesn't happen alot nowadays. The meaning of sex has ..um... deragorated (too harsh a word :p).. reduced to just simple pleasures between a man and women (or nowadays same sex.. etc).

Which ruins the enjoyment of sex anyway, so why do it, and why watch people doing it? *yawn* I'm tired now.

Tired? It's only 10am!! Well.. for me it is :p

Oh boy,

Though I'm a conservative christian, and I share the same views with you. That sex should be for married couples though.

But it just doesn't happen alot nowadays. The meaning of sex has ..um... deragorated (too harsh a word :p).. reduced to just simple pleasures between a man and women (or nowadays same sex.. etc).

I think the same, but i also think that marriage should be allowed for gay couples. me and my girlfriend were going out for a long time before we realised that we really truly loved each other, and before we had sex....sex before marriage? fine. as long as you really love her, yes by all means do it, as long as you plan to spend the rest of your life with her....go for it - and I do, i really really do.

Tired? It's only 10am!! Well.. for me it is :p
it's 10 to three am here....i'm gonna hit the sack soon....keep the thread going though...

Love is where you know you want to spend every minute of every day with someone, where you can be yourself, where you know you can rely on the other to feel the same, where you light up everytime she walks into the room (and i don't mean a ciggarette), where you feel unconditional gratitude, and warmth towards the other person, where you just know you want to spend the rest of your life with this person. This is what love is.
I would call those the effects of love. What I'm looking for is a definition of love itself. Why do you feel that way? What is happening?

Love is where you know you want to spend every minute of every day with someone, where you can be yourself, where you know you can rely on the other to feel the same, where you light up everytime she walks into the room (and i don't mean a ciggarette), where you feel unconditional gratitude, and warmth towards the other person, where you just know you want to spend the rest of your life with this person. This is what love is.

Actually no. Thats probably puppy love, or emotion.

Your love can die as flames of passion fades. There will come a time, when she walks into the room, and you wonder, why she didn't close the door behind her :p. Just like the way your sibling or friend enters your room.

Love is a choice. Or at least by my definition. But this is meant for another thread. We are... sidetracking. :)

I would call those the effects of love. What I'm looking for is a definition of love itself. Why do you feel that way? What is happening?

Well to be honest, it probably has something to do with chemistry and biology, but on the other hand it means you've found the perfect woman/mate for you and that makes love. love=sex. sex does not unfortunately mean love though, it should but people don't see it like i do and i hate it..... sex without love, in my point of view, is rape. I'm sure you must've read my earlier posts? I've already said this.

sex without love, in my point of view, is rape. I'm sure you must've read my earlier posts? I've already said this.

Hence, they've argued over the symantics, that rape isn't sex without love. But forced sex without the consent of the other partner. Well.. its either your definition, or the general accepted definition of the word.

Hence, they've argued over the symantics, that rape isn't sex without love. But forced sex without the consent of the other partner. Well.. its either your definition, or the general accepted definition of the word.

Yeah but what we were saying earlier was that someone who wants harm done to themselves has a mental illness (by definition) and a lot of pornography harms the female involved, therefore the female involve (who is allowing this to happen to her willingly) must have a mental illness to continue to allow this to happen.

*yawn* me sleep now.....keep thread going. :fluffle:

Actresses in porn consent.

Rape victims do not consent.

The big difference between rape and sex is the consent issue. So really, as long as the actress isn't forced to have sex in the porno, it's not rape.
Prostitution, possibly...

Okay, what? Sex without love is rape? Hold the phone, what? *grumbles* Come in on these things on page twelve or thirteen - feh!


Sex without love is sex without love. That's what it is. Rape is rape. Rape entails sexual acts, or assaults, really - and certainly an act of rape could hardly be described as an act of love under any circumstances...but just because rape entails sex without love, it does not then ring true that sex without love is necessarily rape.

It can be just sex - just mutual or self-gratification. It might be shallow, it might not be what the poster would choose themselves, but that's of no consequence. It's a choice, not an assault. There is such a thing as consent among adults, after all...

Well to be honest, it probably has something to do with chemistry and biology, but on the other hand it means you've found the perfect woman/mate for you and that makes love. love=sex. sex does not unfortunately mean love though, it should but people don't see it like i do and i hate it..... sex without love, in my point of view, is rape. I'm sure you must've read my earlier posts? I've already said this.
Yes, I read your earlier posts and responded to them. Perhaps you should pay me the same courtesy. This post, for example:

"I find it extremely difficult to figure out how anyone could equate pornography with rape. Although I happen to watch porn on occassion, I realize that it does tend to cheapen sex, particularly those awful sites which refer to women in derogatory terms and refer to the acts men perform on them as "abuse" or "humiliation." That not only cheapens the sexual act, it degrades both the women who appear in the movies and the men who "abuse" them.

"Any form of relationship, including transient sexual encounters, is based on a degree of trust and mutual respect. If it's not, then it may indeed be "abuse" or "humiliation."

"By what distorted view of people can we justify calling the females who appear in porn "sluts," "whores," "bitches," or even the highly impersonal "MILF," ( Mothers I'd Love to F**k ) while referring to the male actors as men, guys or whatever?

"In this sense, porn may indeed have some of the same effects on the female actresses as rape does on victims. But it's still leagues away from the total domination and violation inflicted on a rape victim. Comparing porno to rape, IMHO, tends to devalue the impact rape has on its victims."

After going back and reading the entirety of this thread, I'm beginning to question the sanity of the thread's starter as well (already questioned the sanity of his lecturer from just reading the first post)...

I mean, I'm not really comfortable with having sex with someone I do not truly love either, but I can certainly fantasize about it and see the appeal, and things like equating jacking off while watching porn to walking up to some girl on the street, throwing her down, ripping her clothes off and having your way with her suggests to me at least there's something wrong with you and your ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. I am personally quite fascinated with the thought of rape and everything associated with it from both sides, yet at the same time, I am disgusted by the actual physical act of such, because I can recognize a vast difference between thinking about something and actually doing it. Of the underpants seems to give the impression that he doesn't understand this difference.

I am starting to believe this is a one-sided debate. There is talk from both sides, but no discussion.

Try as I might, I can't find anyone really addressing the points brought up in defense of Pornography. Is anyone really willing to DEFEND the stance that porn is rape here? Or just mention that it is and avoid discussion as to why?

But the point of sex is to make babies (yes and the enjoyable factor as well), you don't wanna make babies with someone you don't love because then you'd be stuck with him/her for the rest of your life (one way or another). (even the enjoyable factor isn't enjoyable when you're thinking, Oh my god, we could get pregnant by mistake) But if you're with someone you love, this simply isn't a problem, because you love her/him and want to spend the rest of your life with her/him anyway.


Hooray for sex that can never ever result in children!

Is it wrong to buy an urchin shell from a guy by a beach, even though you know they an urchin has been killed for that shell by that guy, probably brutally. Is it wrong to buy ivory from an ivory dealer even though you know it's illeagal to kill elephants?

God you are possibly one of the most confusiing ppeople, ever, listen by fantasizing, you are not taking or giving anything from/to anyone, it is a personal mental action, the only thing expended is your own energy, i dont understand your urchin analogy at all

not rape...

but is is not right...
fantasies lead to stalking and pediphiles
and aids

not rape...

but is is not right...
fantasies lead to stalking and pediphiles
and aids
I vote OP as the most pathetic excuse for a troll on the entire forum.

not rape...

but is is not right...
fantasies lead to stalking and pediphiles
and aids


Uh... huh...

What???

Matthew 5:27-30 27"You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c]"You shall not commit adultery.'[d] 28But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.




That being said, lust and rape are kinda different :rolleyes:

not rape...

but is is not right...
fantasies lead to stalking and pediphiles
and aids

Fantasies leed to stalking and pedophiles the same waywatching a baseball game might make u wanna play baseball

well you might be right actually,

except on the AIDS bit, you cant claim a mental action leads to a deadly physical syndrome unless you go through a long indirect hazey path of connections, the same way i could say that the iraq war is george washingtons fault.

Matthew 5:27-30 27"You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c]"You shall not commit adultery.'[d] 28But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

LOL
my lord that is one funnnny book, no offense to any christians, i just found this verse veerrry funny
LOL

LOL
my lord that is one funnnny book, no offense to any christians, i just found this verse veerrry funny
LOL




-.-

Fantasies leed to stalking and pedophiles the same waywatching a baseball game might make u wanna play baseball

well you might be right actually,

except on the AIDS bit, you cant claim a mental action leads to a deadly physical syndrome unless you go through a long indirect hazey path of connections, the same way i could say that the iraq war is george washingtons fault.
man has fantasies...
man gives in to fantasies...
man has intercourse with anyone he can...
man gets HIV...
man gets as much intercourse as possible in next 7 years and spreads HIV...

not rape...

but is is not right...
fantasies lead to stalking and pediphiles
and aidsNo, mental illness leads to pedophilia and stalking. AIDS is caused by unprotected sex, not immorality.

LOL
my lord that is one funnnny book, no offense to any christians, i just found this verse veerrry funny
LOL
Actually, it's a disgusting book, in my opinion. However, there are a few good pieces of wisdom within. That particular verse wasn't one of them.

Actually, it's a disgusting book, in my opinion. However, there are a few good pieces of wisdom within. That particular verse wasn't one of them.




I'm sure any non-Christian would find the Bible abhorred, as it condemns a life of sin :)


Job 28:28 28And to man He said,
"Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom,
And to depart from evil is understanding."'

I vote OP as the most pathetic excuse for a troll on the entire forum.
??
troll as in big, stupid thing?
or looking for conflict?
i'm not out for a fight...
and i'm small and stupid....

man has fantasies...
man gives in to fantasies...
man has intercourse with anyone he can...
man gets HIV...
man gets as much intercourse as possible in next 7 years and spreads HIV...

George washinton served as our countrys general in the revolutionary war
200 some years later that country is involved in a war

there are too many decisions involved in between fantasy and HIV to list fantasy as the cause, also i doubt that by fantasizing hes going to "have intercourse with anyone he can" also too many other variables;
protection?
Testing?
what was his dating process, or did he just involve himself in massive roman style orgies because he fantasized at his computer?
ive dreampt of skydiving, im not going to jump out of ever plane i see, and im definately gonna wear a parachute, if ya know what i mean

three replies to my first post!!!!
AWESOME!!! :D

three replies to my first post!!!!
AWESOME!!! :D
you should be very proud, many congrats(:

I've just finished my first year of a Creative writing and Media Studies degree, and one of my lecturers is really HOT on this subject. He (yes, he, not she) is a feminist, and seriously DOES believe that pornography is just the same as rape. Anyway, this is a subject that I feel (as a 19 year-oldmale) I should be interested in, (plus, the amount he was talking about it this year, I think it's gonna be part of the "test" as it were, next year).... so here's the question....what do you believe?

Poll coming (hehehe)
That your professor is an imbecile. Saying "pornography is rape" is idiotic. What she, like many feminists, mean to say is that "pornography causes rape", which is false.

Japan has more pornography, less restrictions, and their pornography is more extreme, yet their rate of rapes is 1\50th of the United States. And when I say "rate", that's what I mean. Not total, but their average number of rapes for their country's size is 1\50th than ours.

European countries, where they have nudity on public TV, are relatively comparable. The only places rape is incredibly high is in poor, uncivilized countries, including wacko, Islamic countries.

Attributing rape to pornography is like saying that playing videogames or watching movies makes you kill. Neither of which have been proven.

George washinton served as our countrys general in the revolutionary war
200 some years later that country is involved in a war

there are too many decisions involved in between fantasy and HIV to list fantasy as the cause, also i doubt that by fantasizing hes going to "have intercourse with anyone he can" also too many other variables;
protection?
Testing?
what was his dating process, or did he just involve himself in massive roman style orgies because he fantasized at his computer?
ive dreampt of skydiving, im not going to jump out of ever plane i see, and im definately gonna wear a parachute, if ya know what i mean
note: this only applies to a very few
he masturbates at the comp, wonders what the real thing is like, tries it with a desperate. likes it, and gets addicted. wanders the bars, looking for a woman that will have him for the night. gets one. repeats last two steps until he gets an HIV positive, but is too drunk to remember a condom. contracts. gets tested, and falls into depression. tries to bring as many down with him as possible.
hardly the majority, but it does happen.

I'm sure any non-Christian would find the Bible abhorred, as it condemns a life of sin :)


Well since under strict christianity anyone and everyone who hasn accpeted jesus and requarly repents is a sinner and doomed to eternity in hell (i personallythink the lake of fires probably quite lovely this time of year), its a pretty good reason not to like the book.

note: this only applies to a very few
he masturbates at the comp, wonders what the real thing is like, tries it with a desperate. likes it, and gets addicted. wanders the bars, looking for a woman that will have him for the night. gets one. repeats last two. gets an HIV positive, but is too drunk to remember a condom. contracts. gets tested, and falls into depression. tries to bring as many down with him as possible.
hardly the majority, but it does happen.




TMI >.<

OP: A troll, in the context of this forum, is one who posts something specifically to sufficiently irritate and capture the attention of the other members within the forum. Seeing as how you were so pleased that your post got so much attention, I would place you in the category.

Well since under strict christianity anyone and everyone who hasn accpeted jesus and requarly repents is a sinner and doomed to eternity in hell (i personallythink the lake of fires probably quite lovely this time of year), its a pretty good reason not to like the book.



I can understand that, but, remember, we bring it upon ourselves by our rejection of Christ and God.

Matthew 5:27-30 27"You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c]"You shall not commit adultery.'[d] 28But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.




That being said, lust and rape are kinda different :rolleyes:


Well, lust and fantasizing are a bit different in English. I'm not sure of the language of origin how much difference the language made, but in English lust means an all-consuming desire which impairs normal thought. In other words, an extreme-ized fantasization.

note: this only applies to a very few
he masturbates at the comp, wonders what the real thing is like, tries it with a desperate. likes it, and gets addicted. wanders the bars, looking for a woman that will have him for the night. gets one. repeats last two steps until he gets an HIV positive, but is too drunk to remember a condom. contracts. gets tested, and falls into depression. tries to bring as many down with him as possible.
hardly the majority, but it does happen.

Once again you cant link that on fantasy, if you are going to choose a certain event in the series of events which cause him to contract HIV, dont pick a random one, pick puberty, or birth maybe, how about his grat great great great grandparents knockin the boots? fantasy doesnt leed to sex, fantasy is a biproduct of sexual urge.

Why the hell is this a discussion about scripture?

The scriptural basis for masturbation being immoral is only relevant to Christians and Jews, not the other 75% of this forum.

Whoever hijacked this thread can go to hell.

And making a slippery slope fallacy is idiotic.

Man masturbates.
Man goes to NS.
MAN TELLS YOU ALL TO STFU.

It might happen. It might not. It's a slippery, slippery slope.

Read my last post on how Japan has worse porn and less rape.

Why the hell is this a discussion about scripture?

The scriptural basis for masturbation being immoral is only relevant to Christians and Jews, not the other 75% of this forum.

Whoever hijacked this thread can go to hell.



Which is exactly where you'll be going with such desires for the fate of your fellow man :mad:

I can understand that, but, remember, we bring it upon ourselves by our rejection of Christ and God.

Or the fact that neither of us have proof either to the existance or nonexistance to god, so lets leave it at that i and many others may be damned to hell if we dont cut off our right hand or whatever or we may not, lets not turn this into a christianity thread.

OP: A troll, in the context of this forum, is one who posts something specifically to sufficiently irritate and capture the attention of the other members within the forum. Seeing as how you were so pleased that your post got so much attention, I would place you in the category.
note: my post was not meant to irritate. it was a random thing of sponteneousness. i am sorry that you are offended.
as for the joy at having replies, i am usually not taken seriously...

Or the fact that neither of us have proof either to the existance or nonexistance to god, so lets leave it at that i and many others may be damned to hell if we dont cut off our right hand or whatever or we may not, lets not turn this into a christianity thread.




All threads are eventually turned in to Christianity threads from what I've seen :D

note: this only applies to a very few
he masturbates at the comp, wonders what the real thing is like, tries it with a desperate. likes it, and gets addicted. wanders the bars, looking for a woman that will have him for the night. gets one. repeats last two steps until he gets an HIV positive, but is too drunk to remember a condom. contracts. gets tested, and falls into depression. tries to bring as many down with him as possible.
hardly the majority, but it does happen.I have never in my life been too drunk to use a condom. Too drunk to remember having used the condom, yes, but never too drunk to forget to protect myself. Promiscuous sex does not lead to STIs or HIV, necessarily. Unprotected sex with a few people is much more likely to lead to that then safe sex with many.

Which is exactly where you'll be going with such desires for the fate of your fellow man :mad:
Qu'ran [2:111]

Some have said, "No one will enter Paradise except Jews or Christians!" Such is their wishful thinking. Say, "Show us your proof, if you are right."

I have never in my life been too drunk to use a condom. Too drunk to remember having used the condom, yes, but never too drunk to forget to protect myself. Promiscuous sex does not lead to STIs or HIV, necessarily. Unprotected sex with a few people is much more likely to lead to that then safe sex with many.
allow me to modify my last line...
it is slightly possible that this could happen to a minute percentage of porn addicts

judge not lest ye be judged,
love thy neighbor,
shabot shalom mother f*cker,
ok are we done with religon?

note: this only applies to a very few
he masturbates at the comp, wonders what the real thing is like, tries it with a desperate. likes it, and gets addicted. wanders the bars, looking for a woman that will have him for the night. gets one. repeats last two steps until he gets an HIV positive, but is too drunk to remember a condom. contracts. gets tested, and falls into depression. tries to bring as many down with him as possible.
hardly the majority, but it does happen.Hey, did you happen to write the story for Cyber Seduction (http://imdb.com/title/tt0457270/)? :P

Qu'ran [2:111]

Some have said, "No one will enter Paradise except Jews or Christians!" Such is their wishful thinking. Say, "Show us your proof, if you are right."



John 14:6 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

allow me to modify my last line...
it is slightly possible that this could happen to a minute percentage of porn addicts

Ok now i agree with you, youve changed your post to the extent that it is nothing like the original, what you are saying is that there is an EXTREMELY SMALL chance among an EXTREMELY SMALL group of people who have certain mental conditions that they MAY contract HIV, which MAY or MAY not be connected to fantasy

Hey, did you happen to write the story for Cyber Seduction (http://imdb.com/title/tt0457270/)? :P
why no, i don't believe i did...

... w-what? No.

John 14:6 6Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
That isn't proof, because Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim scriptures all contradict it.

In any case, now that we've clarified that religion is Irrelevant, with a capital I, to this discussion and that there are no souls here who want to be saved, are there any individuals here who have something to say about Japan and Europe?

In Europe, nudity is on TV. In Japan, they have all kinds of freaky pornography. But their rate of rape is significantly less than ours. I certainly didn't hear about America's rape rate spiking after seeing Janet's boob, did you?

What the religious zealots and militant feminists fail to realize as well is that a fantasy does not require pornography. There is also pornographic literature, which it would be insane to censor. And furthermore, monkeys and dolphins masturbate, yet you don't see them swapping Hustler magazines.

Nope i sure didnt, and we need more wardrobe malfunctions and less violence.
Im no fan of censorship, but if they need a certain subject to focus on let it be the awful action that is violence against our fellow men and women rather than my favorite organs

In any case, now that we've clarified that religion is Irrelevant, with a capital I, to this discussion and that there are no souls here who want to be saved, are there any individuals here who have something to say about Japan and Europe?

In Europe, nudity is on TV. In Japan, they have all kinds of freaky pornography. But their rate of rape is significantly less than ours. I certainly didn't hear about America's rape rate spiking after seeing Janet's boob, did you?I think it's nice to see that some countries aren't so worried about the mind warping qualities of the human nipple.

Yeah, I had to skip back a few pages to see where the Baby Jesus and his faceless Dad figured into all this.

And surprise, surprise, they don't. Actually.

You guys've hijacked this thread with all the skill of swarthy men wielding box-cutters. Grats.

Well since under strict christianity anyone and everyone who hasn accpeted jesus and requarly repents is a sinner and doomed to eternity in hell (i personallythink the lake of fires probably quite lovely this time of year), its a pretty good reason not to like the book.
There are other reasons, though. Example: Luke 12. Aparently, we are slaves to this so-called "god", and if we do not fear him, we will be cast into hell. GOODY!

That isn't proof, because Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim scriptures all contradict it.

In any case, now that we've clarified that religion is Irrelevant, with a capital I, to this discussion and that there are no souls here who want to be saved, are there any individuals here who have something to say about Japan and Europe?

In Europe, nudity is on TV. In Japan, they have all kinds of freaky pornography. But their rate of rape is significantly less than ours. I certainly didn't hear about America's rape rate spiking after seeing Janet's boob, did you?

What the religious zealots and militant feminists fail to realize as well is that a fantasy does not require pornography. There is also pornographic literature, which it would be insane to censor. And furthermore, monkeys and dolphins masturbate, yet you don't see them swapping Hustler magazines.



Ah, but Christ rose from the dead. Did Mohammad? Christ performed miracles, as did his apostles. Did Mohammad?

There are other reasons, though. Example: Luke 12. Aparently, we are slaves to this so-called "god", and if we do not fear him, we will be cast into hell. GOODY!



You are either a slave to God or a slave to Satan. It's a black-and-white issue, really. That which is not of God is of Satan. So, yes, I suppose you could call me a slave of God. But don't let the negative connotation of the word slave delude the meaning of this truth.

Really people, do not make me spank you with the dead sea scrolls,

this thread is about rape/porn, not jesus moses muhammid krishna buddha or whoever else

I feel that it's important for someone to say...

THIS IS NOT A DAMN RELIGION DISCUSSION. GET THE FUCK OUT.

I've seen some disgusting "porn" where it seems the girls really dont want to be there and are not enjoying themselves one bit. Usually this is japanese scat stuff (which I only watch for gross out material) though. Maybe they are there willingly and doing it for the money but sometimes they almost seem like they are being forced to be there. I don't personally know, but you can tell when a woman is enjoying herself or not and I dare say that in most cases it is definitely not rape.

Ah, but did Christ, Mohammad, Moses or any other personages of considerable ecumenical import have sex without love?

No?

Then why bring any of 'em up in this thread?



/shrug


I gave my position on the issue which was scriptural and somehow the topic just digressed into a religious one :D

note: my post was not meant to irritate. it was a random thing of sponteneousness. i am sorry that you are offended.
as for the joy at having replies, i am usually not taken seriously...
I was not offended. Perhaps I would be offended by a properly formatted, well-spelt, and well thought-out post which was a direct insult to me. Your fit none of the above criteria.

I feel that it's important for someone to say...

THIS IS NOT A DAMN RELIGION DISCUSSION. GET THE FUCK OUT.
http://members.aol.com/FreeHandyFun/Anim1/Applause.gif

I suppose you could call me a slave of God.

I'll call you a thread hijacker instead.

oh everyknowledge, you tickle my fancy,
anywho, This has been said before but needs to be said again
PICK UP A DICTIONARY AND LOOK UP BOTH WORDS
rape=nonconsentual sex
Pornography=sexual material viewed and/or read in order to aid self gratification

NOTE: neither of these is an actual dictionary definition btw

I'll call you a thread hijacker instead.



LOL
my lord that is one funnnny book, no offense to any christians, i just found this verse veerrry funny
LOL



That's where the thread hijacking began, and it wasn't my statement :(

I've seen some disgusting "porn" where it seems the girls really dont want to be there and are not enjoying themselves one bit. Usually this is japanese scat stuff (which I only watch for gross out material)Of course.
Maybe they are there willingly and doing it for the money but sometimes they almost seem like they are being forced to be there. I don't personally know, but you can tell when a woman is enjoying herself or not and I dare say that in most cases it is definitely not rape. I can tell you that I never look like I'm enjoying myself when I'm at work. Because I'm not enjoying myself! I'm doing it for the money! A lot of us have unpleasant jobs, and most of us would not go to work were we not getting paid.
I'd do porn. It's easier than construction, and pays better.

I was not offended. Perhaps I would be offended by a properly formatted, well-spelt, and well thought-out post which was a direct insult to me. Your fit none of the above criteria.
What can i say? I'm too tired at the moment to worry about formatting.
(can I have some aloe for that burn?)

WTF !!! i said that in response to you quoting scripture, dont just lie man

NOTE: neither of these is an actual dictionary definition btw

Wow. I so did not like, know that or anything?