NationStates Jolt Archive

If the case happened where I knew that my father had killed someone else's father, I might be inclined to apologise to that person on his behalf. But on the whole nobody should be made to feel guilty for something they haven't done, especially not on the basis of skin colour.

People of all shades have killed millions of people. Genghis Khan killed millions. The Aztecs killed and cannibalized their own. Blacks are slaughtering each other in Africa even today. Ever hear of Rwanda?

Stop blaming Whitey and use your brain. You liberals believe in Darwins theory. Whites killed the Indians because our civilizations came into conflict. Ours was stronger, we won. If the tables we're turned, the Indians & Aztecs would've went to Europe and wiped out the white folks. Get a grip.

Unfortunately, extending this reasoning to its logical extreme means that murderers, rapists, looters, robbers, etc, will be able to use the argument of evolution at work if caught.

Actually, it seems to encourage a form of anarchist view.

Hell no. For two reasons- 1, I have no comtrol over my ancestors, 2, I am not my ancestors, and 3, I don't know enough about my ancestors to know if they did anything bad or not. I assume at least a few of them did, though. I am disgusted with the way people have behaved and are behaving now, but why should I feel guilty if I didn't do it and had no control whatsoever over it?

Her recent ancestors supported a regime that committed unspeakable atrocities. Those atrocities are recognised as such in the international community, but she herself did not participate in them. Should she feel guilty? Should the decendants of ANYONE who has committed atrocities (or supported them, again, like the genocide of Native Americans, slavery, etc etc) feel guilty? What could they possibly do to expunge their FEELINGS of guilt?

I'm German too, so I guess I'm biased on this issue, but I think although you shouldn't be guilty of your ancestors crimes, you need to be responsible for them. This means recognizing what was done by your ancestors and making sure this isn't forgotten.

I feel no shame or guilt for the 'sins of the fathers'. I don't feel that connection to the past that is a prerequisite for such guilt. That said, I don't have any sense of loyalty to country, ancestors (beyond the generations currently liveing), etc, so I think it's more to do with an innate sense of belonging only to the here and now. The past has nothing to do with me personally.

Well, it's bad all that stuff happened, but isn't it kind of ridiculous to say the same situation applies to only "whiteys"? Everybody has anscestors that did wrong, and just because modern society feels white people's sins should be emphasized, doesn't mean everyone who isn't white has purely innocent heritage. I don't mean that in a racist way at all, it's just that we're all sinners here.

While we should learn from the past, it's time we got over our stupid hang-ups and realize that old sin is only history. Let's move on, people.

well, we whites are probably the most cruel skin color in the history of forever. what color was the Roman's skin. white. what color was great britains skin. white. what was the skin color of the colonists and the Germans? white. I have no guilty conscience, so i have to go with no. even though i'm descended from every one of those people i mentioned.

Let me explain before you take the title at face value and start answering in a silly manner (DC...). I was talking to a German girl (in my French class) who said that she feels like the collusion of her grandparents with the Nazis was a shame she could never live down. Now, the Holocaust is somewhat more recent than say, the genocide of Native Americans, so perhaps her guilt has some foundation, but I'm not really sure how I feel about it.

Her recent ancestors supported a regime that committed unspeakable atrocities. Those atrocities are recognised as such in the international community, but she herself did not participate in them. Should she feel guilty? Should the decendants of ANYONE who has committed atrocities (or supported them, again, like the genocide of Native Americans, slavery, etc etc) feel guilty? What could they possibly do to expunge their FEELINGS of guilt?

I for one am torn. Yes, I want people in the present to recognise that what their forefathers did was bad. I want some effort to be made to right past wrongs, and I want people to acknowledge what those wrongs were....but I don't see how wandering around with this guilt on your shoulders is either constructive, or particularly healthy. I aim this at white people (disregard the fact that race is a farce) because it is commonly said (mostly by white people:)) that they are being made to feel guilty for the sins of their fathers, etc. Thoughts?
Talk about your White Liberal Guilt.What Utter Garbage! You can not pay for the transgressions of your ancestors any more then you can travel into the past and stop them. I am Canadian but i hardly feel guilty about what my distant relatives did in the distant past as bad and as reprehensible as it was, with the stealing of land, the introduction of alcohol ,among other things. Real guilt forces you to face the past , make reparations and never ,hopefully, do it again. How can you do anything when both the sinner and the sinned against are both long gone. This feeling of guilt in this country has lead to in my view,has led to some truly disastorous decisions sucessive governments have made on how to treat our native population,i.e. the basic segregation of most Indians, Reservations, the exemption from some taxes, the special hunting and fishing permits and the general throwing of money at any native problem shows the direction that acting on these feelings of guilt can do. Does your friend see that people are going to see this willingness to bend over backwards to assuage her feelings as something to take advantage of as well? That serves nobody.

I do not feel guilt because of the actions of my race, gender, or nationality.

Those things aren't supposed to define a person, remember?

Governments that were responsible, however, have a duty to rectify crimes of the past.

This person makes a very good point.

I've always felt that those groups that go around complaining that they are owed and that whites should feel guilty where part of the worst common donominator of their ethnic groups. Some people are just looking for the free lunch.

My feelings are mine, no one else's. I own them, I am responsible for them. They don't control me, I control them. I can choose to be happy, or choose to not feel guilty.
Again, quite true. We can control them after they happen, but not before.

...

This is one of those idiotic notions people get from believing in such BS as 'original sin' and so forth...

Based on these arguments:

Since I have Native American ancestry, every non-Native in America owes me. INCLUDING the 'black' people, because they're all living on Native land now.

Since I have English ancestry, I owe MYSELF, because of the whole Trail of Tears thing.

Because I'm part French, America owes me for saving it from me: Because I'm part English, I should be irritated at myself for helping the American colonies break free.

Because my ancestor, millions of years ago, killed a baby dinosaur, I owe birds today.

Because I have relatives who are thieves, I should be in jail.

What a bunch of fricking garbage.

well, we whites are probably the most cruel skin color in the history of forever. what color was the Roman's skin. white. what color was great britains skin. white. what was the skin color of the colonists and the Germans? white. I have no guilty conscience, so i have to go with no. even though i'm descended from every one of those people i mentioned.

...And the Japanese used to bind the feet of women...

...And most of the African slaves were initially enslaved by other African tribes...

...And the Middle East has people who slam planes in to buildings...

...And Native Americans had slavery....

...And Aztecs ripped hearts out...


However, the Blue People are perfectly innocent.

Actually, it was the Chinese who bound feet.

Guilt - No
Shame - Yes
A feeling that as much ought to be done as possible to redress the wrongs - Yes
How much is possible? - Unfortunatley, not much.

My thoughts exactly.

Actually, it was the Chinese who bound feet.

True.

But the Japanese are descended from the Chinese, so it's also their doing, so they should feel guilty!

:D

...And Aztecs ripped hearts out...

And damn tasty those things are!


However, the Blue People are perfectly innocent.
The ones in the Intel ads? I don't know, they look creepy.

And damn tasty those things are!


The ones in the Intel ads? I don't know, they look creepy.

I think it means the old scot warriors like in Braveheart who were actually shit and lost.

I don't feel guilty. I have never personally done anything to ever hurt anyone, well except perhaps their feelings. I am only responsible for what *I* do. I am not responsible for the acts of others. Either is anyone else.