NationStates Jolt Archive

Ah. So you can tap a "boing 747" for one white mana?
He DEFINATELY won't get that one.

Is it just me or this turned into a giant flame war between gays and straights?

Yay we have a funny guy.

" Working there asses off = Working verry hard to accomplish a goal they set as a " great opstical in life ". "

In my case, I need to " work my ass off ", or better known to you, work till I am bloody all over, to achieve what I want. And I want to be in the Marine corps. Why am I working so hard? I don't want to fuck up my chances of getting in the Marine corps by fucking up at school for not doing my hw.
It's their asses. Possessive use of that word. Not there.

Like people read my posts anyways:

Don't get me wrong. Its not like I am saying that people should not have the choice to hate homosexuals. I am just throwing in my 2 cents. I'm not " ecstatic " about there being homosexuals, and I'm not all " GOD PLEASE GIVE US THE TRIALS OF TRIBULATION NOW!! RID OF THESE DEMON INFESTED GAYS! ".

Sure, I don't really support Homosexuality, but I just have the heart where I really don't like seeing man treating man like hounds.

Unfortunatly true. YOu can make a mockery of marriage, mess up kids lives and prance about in what should be a mans uniform. Congrats

Yes, I do quite enjoy corrupting young minds and bringing on the fall of civilization, thank you for asking. I'm almost having too much fun at it.

this brings up an interesting point: the reason for laws to exist.

the idea of a legal system is to make sure that people can do whatever they want so long as it doesn't cause harm to others. killing and eating someone would be harming someone. having gay sex with a willing participant would not.
Many would argue it would be quite kind.

It's their asses. Possessive use of that word. Not there.

Oh thats what you meant..sorry I'm, apparently, not the best with my Grammar lol.

...with an elephant.
....blindfolded

Ah. So you can tap a "boing 747" for one white mana?
ROFLMAO <3.

He DEFINATELY won't get that one.
MTG!
Awsome!

fairytale about a sky wizard?

You obviously don't know what we mean by the term "God".

It’s ridiculous, you’re sex should never determine you’re life studious. In the words of the leader of The Democratic Republic of Meryl Streep, you can be strait but not narrow. The world cries out for equality among the sexes. Why not equality among sexual preference? So what you’re gay, that doesn’t make you inapt to “fight” or anything else the military dose! :sniper: :gundge:

All i've got to say is... Do not bring those kids to America. Because they will get picked on till the point of suicide, and im actually serious about that

No, you're a liar. I've known plenty of kids adopted into homosexual families who were far better adjusted than the ones born into heterosexual families.

Love makes a family, not genitalia.

It's not like every gay wants to fuck you, that would be arrogance on your part.

huh.. of course every gay wants to fuck me... im unbearable even to myself. hell if i were gay, id fuck me too...

anyway, im not saying that ever gay wants to do every straight guy.. im saying theres no problem with the dont ask dont tell policy b/c the army is not the place to be parading ur sexuality, whether ur straight or gay... its just not the place.. leave it for when ur @ home by urself on a computer, or @ a gay bar or something... please!

He DEFINATELY won't get that one.
To be honest, I doubt he'd get any joke I made even if it hit him the the face.

You obviously don't know what we mean by the term "God".

A magical being in the sky. Hence sky wizard.

Is it just me or this turned into a giant flame war between gays and straights?

No, but it certainly appears to have taken a turn for the mildly homoerotic.

No, you're a liar. I've known plenty of kids adopted into homosexual families who were far better adjusted than the ones born into heterosexual families.

Love makes a family, not genitalia.

Are you completly nuts??? have you gone to a high school these days? You would have to send the kid to a private school with bodyguards. That kid will get picked on till the point of suicide and ill put all my money on it

Is it just me or this turned into a giant flame war between gays and straights?

Not between gays and straights. Between ignorant bigots and humans.

All i've got to say is... Do not bring those kids to America. Because they will get picked on till the point of suicide, and im actually serious about that

That's a bunch of crap, and you should know it. Why would anyone want to go to such a dump like where you live?

Yes, I do quite enjoy corrupting young minds and bringing on the fall of civilization, thank you for asking. I'm almost having too much fun at it.
STOP! For (arguably non-existent, although existent in my opinion) God's sake, many of these people believe in a homosexual conspiracy to turn their kids gay. They don't know that you're kidding. STOP!

Unfortunatly true. YOu can make a mockery of marriage, mess up kids lives and prance about in what should be a mans uniform. Congrats
I'm going to tell you a story. This story is about a couple of lesbians, one of whom was married. She had a child, but soon after left her husband to be with a woman. I know this couple because each is an old friend and former roommate of one of my parents, and ended up introducing them.

The child they raised turned into a nice, well mannered, functioning, intellignet, and most importantly extrmely tolerant young man. He's almost 30 now, and they have now been together for almost three decades with no signs of stopping. Most marriages don't last that long.

Don't talk about things you don't understand.

Sure, I don't really support Homosexuality, but I just have the heart where I really don't like seeing man treating man like hounds.

So basically you're of the position that homosexuals should be allowed in the military, but there should be no military?

Are you completly nuts??? have you gone to a high school these days? You would have to send the kid to a private school with bodyguards. That kid will get picked on till the point of suicide and ill put all my money on it

Ummmm ... I teach in a junior high these days. No, those kids do not get picked on to the point of suicide.

"A magical being in the sky."

not really.

Its more like "Supreme Entity"

Are you completly nuts??? have you gone to a high school these days? You would have to send the kid to a private school with bodyguards. That kid will get picked on till the point of suicide and ill put all my money on it
Not where I live. In fact, anyone picking on a gay kid would be ostracized.

STOP! For (arguably non-existent, although existent in my opinion) God's sake, many of these people believe in a homosexual conspiracy to turn their kids gay. They don't know that you're kidding. STOP!

Oh, please, mocking bigots is one of the true joys of life. You know why? Cause I don't care what they think of me.

Quite frankly, i cannot STAND people who cannot tolerate homosexuals. I'll be blunt about it- All such people are bigoted, ignorant, misinformed, uneducated... bigots! Especially if they're OPEN about it! If you're against homosexuality, why do you have to be open about it? It's pretty hypocritical! Being open against openness, that is.

I don't usually make such blunt posts, but this is REALLY pissing me off.

is it just me or do the "homophobes" get treated worse on these forums then the freaks they're supposedly trying to opress? just an observation..

That's a bunch of crap, and you should know it. Why would anyone want to go to such a dump like where you live?

It might be a dump but ill sure as hell call it my home

"A magical being in the sky."

not really.

Its more like "Supreme Entity"
Like Yawgmoth?

....blindfolded
while wearing chaps...

No, you're a liar. I've known plenty of kids adopted into homosexual families who were far better adjusted than the ones born into heterosexual families.

Love makes a family, not genitalia.

I think his point was actually that other kids are 'evil'* and will pick on your kids, rather than there being any defficiency or fault with your kids.



* as is the nature of the young.

is it just me or do the "homophobes" get treated worse on these forums then the freaks they're supposedly trying to opress? just an observation..
Well duh. The racists get treated worse than the blacks, so the homophobes are treated worse than the gays.

A magical being in the sky. Hence sky wizard.
Sky wizard? God is not a sky wizard! And He's not 'magical' He is the creator of all life, there's a difference! :headbang:

A magical being in the sky. Hence sky wizard.
Sky wizard? God is not a sky wizard! And He's not 'magical' He is the creator of all life, there's a difference! :headbang:

Okay, think of this for awhile:

So, a friend of mine is a big homophobe. I mean, just the loudest homophobe out there. He kept on going how Gays should be executed and all that crap. And I'm trying to get this point across that all humans are somehwat gay... and then so I decided to ask him:

Guy: " Hey, you like to watch Porn...right? "

Homophobe: " Well fuck ya man, you should know that by now! "

Guy: " Okay. Well, do you like to watch Lesbian porn, or a couple doing it? "

Homophobe: " Ah heck, a couple doing it. Why? "

Guy: " Okay, do you enjoy the porno if the guy has this tiny ass dick or this huge one? "

Homophobe: " Fuck, I love them hard and long. What good is a male on female porn when the guy has this small penis? "

Guy: ..." Now think just a second. About what I said. Now, arn't we all at a degree of homosexuality? "

Homophobe: " Ohhh.... "

---

I can't remember how Ron White said it, but I just tried to make my own version of it.

But yea, I think thats hillarious.

So I finally got around to deleting this admittedly stupid and out-of-line post.
There are plenty of references to it so it's not like I'm trying to pretend it didn't happen. but I thought mabey if I deleted it My apology would seem more sincere. Sorry everyone. Ive already kicked myself plenty over this. :(

Its more like "Supreme Entity"

And that makes it somehow less magical and imaginary?

Sky wizard? God is not a sky wizard! And He's not 'magical' He is the creator of all life, there's a difference! :headbang:

You just keep telling yourself that.

"prance about in what should be a mans uniform"

Naw, you know what? we'll give they're own special uniform, Rainbow, big purple triangle, the works. That should be a good target for an AK-47, and make a good diversion too.
So we really should kill people for their beliefs? Heil, mein Fuh...you get the idea.

Sky wizard? God is not a sky wizard! And He's not 'magical' He is the creator of all life, there's a difference! :headbang:
God's Ubbo-Sathla?

Yeah, it's obscure. So sue me.

Sorry, seems my computer was acting up. Anyway, teachers dont really see what kids go through these days, and if they do its seriously messed up that they dont do anything to stop it.. Oh and im mainly speaking about the United States, I dont know much about other countries views toward homosexuality

You just keep telling yourself that.

Ahaha ... I just noticed your sig. When did you install that?

Ok so the uniform bit was out of line. I only said it cause I was getting pissed off.

can you please explain you're self? i think i agree with you. :confused:

Sorry, seems my computer was acting up. Anyway, teachers dont really see what kids go through these days, and if they do its seriously messed up that they dont do anything to stop it.. Oh and im mainly speaking about the United States, I dont know much about other countries views toward homosexuality
Not where I live. As I noted, anyone who attacked gays would be ostracized.

Ahaha ... I just noticed your sig. When did you install that?

Oh, some 15 pages ago ;)

can you please explain you're self? i think i agree with you. :confused:
Who are you talking to?

Not where I live. As I noted, anyone who attacked gays would be ostracized.

For some reason the U.S seems to have the rudest people in the whole world

Ok so the uniform bit was out of line. I only said it cause I was getting pissed off.
It's strange that I'm still lucid and inoffensive when genocide of some of my close friends was suggested.

I realized along time ago Its impossible to get you people to understand the concept of God.

For some reason the U.S seems to have the rudest people in the whole world
I'm in the U.S. I'm from that tolerant part called New England. Perhaps you've heard of it.

I realized along time ago Its impossible to get you people to understand the concept of God.

What "concept"? People have been inventing deities and other fictional charactes for ages. Yours isn't special in any way.

Ok so the uniform bit was out of line. I only said it cause I was getting pissed off.

i just listened to Wretched by Before God, it helps.

Sorry, seems my computer was acting up. Anyway, teachers dont really see what kids go through these days, and if they do its seriously messed up that they dont do anything to stop it.. Oh and im mainly speaking about the United States, I dont know much about other countries views toward homosexuality

We do see what kids go through and we do everything we can to stop it. Of the kids I teach, three current students are adopted into homosexual families. Of those, not one is suicidal and not one gets picked on. As a matter of fact, the other day I overheard one student telling one of these adoptees that, "You're lucky cuz you have two daddies. My dad's always working and never has time to practise baseball with me."

In the entire district high schools, there have passed through our system 26 students, male and female, who were adopted into homosexual families since 1990. Out of those 26, 0 have committed suicide and only 2 are themselves homosexual. Number of heterosexual students who have committed suicide when a particular girl wouldn't go out with them: 14 since 1990.

Don't give me guff about the US, either. I teach in Texas.

I realized along time ago Its impossible to get you people to understand the concept of God.
Quite right. I've given up trying to explain myself to atheist friends. It's a question of faith and can't be explained, only partially justified, rationally. Either you feel something or you don't. There's no point arguing over it.

I don't want to get this threat off-topic though - there's a lot to discuss about bigotry (particularly in the US) against homosexuals.

I think that people should be allowed in the military based on their qualifications. Would you rather have an excellent soldier who can speak fluent Arabic, but is gay, or would you rather have a sub-par soldier who is straight? That's not to say that Gays are any better at fighting, its just that it seems like gays are being forced out of the military without taking into account the fact that they may be good soldiers.

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're white, middle class, most likely female, live in the suburbs, vote democrat, and belong to a book club.

and/or

are gay.

So only white suburban middle class female democrats have any sense?
This white poor female socialist living in BFE feels so left out.

:headbang: wow you people r fast.

We do see what kids go through and we do everything we can to stop it. Of the kids I teach, three current students are adopted into homosexual families. Of those, not one is suicidal and not one gets picked on. As a matter of fact, the other day I overheard one student telling one of these adoptees that, "You're lucky cuz you have two daddies. My dad's always working and never has time to practise baseball with me."

In the entire district high schools, there have passed through our system 26 students, male and female, who were adopted into homosexual families since 1990. Out of those 26, 0 have committed suicide and only 2 are themselves homosexual. Number of heterosexual students who have committed suicide when a particular girl wouldn't go out with them: 14 since 1990.

Don't give me guff about the US, either. I teach in Texas.

"Your lucky cuz you have two daddies". "My dads always working and never has time to practise baseball with me"....

You mind telling me what grade you teach? Cause there is no way that those words came out of a teenager

I realized along time ago Its impossible to get you people to understand the concept of God.
I understand it. God is some omniscient, omnipotent being. Like Nyarlathotep, only less subtle in his homocidal assholery.

"Your lucky cuz you have two daddies". "My dads always working and never has time to practise baseball with me"....

You mind telling me what grade you teach? Cause there is no way that those words came out of a teenager

Those words came out of a 12 year old. Kids are a lot smarter and more perceptive than you seem to think.

"Your lucky cuz you have two daddies". "My dads always working and never has time to practise baseball with me"....

You mind telling me what grade you teach? Cause there is no way that those words came out of a teenager
Sigh. If you note, not every part of the U.S. consists of insane fundamentalist zealots. In fact, an enormous part, called cities are tolerant.

Sigh. If you note, not every part of the U.S. consists of insane fundamentalist zealots. In fact, an enormous part, called cities are tolerant.

Well, to be fair, he *is* from Florida ... that is, after all, America's wang.

Locked for review.

They need to gather them all up and fucking launch them into fuckign space or sum shit. Get rid of em. Nobody here wants them. Or if nasa dont wanna waste the money i'll do it my self.What the hell is a boing 747? A fucking plain dumb assNaw, you know what? we'll give they're own special uniform, Rainbow, big purple triangle, the works. That should be a good target for an AK-47, and make a good diversion too.
BlackOpps and Kholar, neither of you seem to be able to post without flaming. If you can't behave like civilized members of the NationStates public, find yoursleves another game to play. At this site, we debate with at least an effort at civility. There is a link to the rules of this game under my signature.
READ THE RULES STICKY.

then it will be ok to have the whole military full of fruitcakes and fudgepackers. Sure we should let them in, but they're the first line of defense! Think about it, most of the gays die, and some of the enemy die with them.
And Under BOBBY and Pot Smoking Dragons, you aren't the only trolls in this thread, but you're the worst. If you can't back up your language with facts and not just more vitriol, you will find yourselves on the outside of these forums looking in.

As for the rest of you, don't feed the trolls. I just wasted a perfectly good half hour dredging thru this crap when I could have been doing something productive. Thanks for nothin'.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator
The One-Stop Rules Shop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023)

If you don't like being a mod, nobody forces you ;)

Does this mean we can keep talking?

THIS WHOLE THREAD'S HILLARIOUS!!!

And for all those who are talking about gay guys checking out straight guys or whatever, y'all need to read history. Ancient Sparta encouraged homosexual relationships in their army and they were the strongest military power in Greece for 500 years.

I might also add, gay people pay taxes and are paying for the military just like everyone else. They have a right to join if they want to. You'd think with matters as bad as they are, y'all wouldn't be too picky whose offering their lives for y'all.

how does he know I wasen't trying to be civil? I was but it's not easy when your surrounded by people who are effectivly screaming, I kinda makes you want to scream to. I had a momentary lapse of control.

Yay, I dirint do anything wrong!!

how does he know I wasen't trying to be civil? I was but it's not easy when your surrounded by people who are effectivly screaming, I kinda makes you want to scream to. I had a momentary lapse of control.
Arguing with moderators is no way to endear yourself to them, especially after being warned just a little while ago.

Look at all this hate! It's very sad. I can't stand this level of racisim, sexisim, etc. Gays ARE people, too. Many of which are better than us straights.

how does he know I wasen't trying to be civil? I was but it's not easy when your surrounded by people who are effectivly screaming, I kinda makes you want to scream to. I had a momentary lapse of control.
Momentary...?

Be at peace, grasshoppers.

Yee-haa! A fight!
I'll take a swing at that Wicca! And a miss. You darned witch!

Wee, anyway, I'll take some time to post on my own thread.

Personally, I would find it almost comforting that the guy next to me in the foxhole would have more than one reason to want to keep my ass in one piece. But I digress.

This policy recently cost us a number of arabic transaltors. As a result of this, intelligence data from the field written in Arabic is backed up a week. So all you army boys, just think of that. Think of making an assault on an enemy position and finding out too late that they've been reinforced by another group because the report filed by the iraqi informant is #33798 in the que to get translated because seven skilled translators were fired for being gay.

Yee-haa! A fight!
I'll take a swing at that Wicca! And a miss. You darned witch!


Yea. Everyone tries and fails at that.

Well it was like 18 pages of flaming....

I may mentian to all whom it may concern, I am in the USAF, and yet I am a left wing Witch. How could this happen one may ask?

( Try and Post a guess)

I don't see much point in starting a thread about homosexuality. has anybody around here changed they're mind or admitted they're wrong? It seems to be deadlocked.

I may mentian to all whom it may concern, I am in the USAF, and yet I am a left wing Witch. How could this happen one may ask?

( Try and Post a guess)
Well it is the Air Force :rolleyes:

Try to look at things from a professional piont of view.
As long as they do thier given task effectivly and above standards, who gives a shit if thier gay, straight, male, female, black, white, pink, yellow, purple, red, catholic, protestant, athiest, devil worshiper.

The UK military has a few homosexuals (I know because I've worked with them), the difference is that nobody really gives a toss as long as they do thier job, weather it's shooting the bad guys or filing paperwork.

Yes, But I am enlisting in the UHOA, The United Hobos Of America.

ummm... someone told you USAF stood for Uncle Sam's Almond Factory?

Try to look at things from a professional piont of view.
As long as they do thier given task effectivly and above standards, who gives a shit if thier gay, straight, male, female, black, white, pink, yellow, purple, red, catholic, protestant, athiest, devil worshiper.

The UK military has a few homosexuals (I know because I've worked with them), the difference is that nobody really gives a toss as long as they do thier job, weather it's shooting the bad guys or filing paperwork.


That Really is the point, is it not?

I may mentian to all whom it may concern, I am in the USAF, and yet I am a left wing Witch. How could this happen one may ask?

( Try and Post a guess)

Tests have determined that broomsticks make excellent spy planes?

You know, we in the Air Force really are taken for granted. You Marines, Grunts, Navy boys, and Reservists couldn't function without us, just as we couldn't function without you.

Try to look at things from a professional piont of view. SNIP
Oh! So the minute the shelling begins the gays amongst the troops don't turn into a group of ass-pirates!? 20 pages for nothing then.

Try to look at things from a professional piont of view.
As long as they do thier given task effectivly and above standards, who gives a shit if thier gay, straight, male, female, black, white, pink, yellow, purple, red, catholic, protestant, athiest, devil worshiper.

The UK military has a few homosexuals (I know because I've worked with them), the difference is that nobody really gives a toss as long as they do thier job, weather it's shooting the bad guys or filing paperwork.
You bring up another interesting point. Since Britain allows gays to serve openly and US and UK troops have been serving together in Iraq US troops have been working with openly gay people, and pretty well at that.

You bring up another interesting point. Since Britain allows gays to serve openly and US and UK troops have been serving together in Iraq US troops have been working with openly gay people, and pretty well at that.

Agreed :D

well, I have to go

I wonder if anyone has ever changed anyones mind on this forum? If so I've never witnessed it. makes it seem kinda pointless.....drat

This subject is such that we could argue it out for hours and still discuss the fundimental point; How much Rights should Gays be alotted?
I say How many rights should HUMAN BEINGS be given?

Agreed :D
We as well.
Tell me, are you acually in England?

The lead singer for Judas Priest is Gay. They are one of the Worlds Greatest bands.

This subject is such that we could argue it out for hours and still discuss the fundimental point; How much Rights should Gays be alotted?
I say How many rights should HUMAN BEINGS be given?
True. Gay people should never be allowed to die for their country!

well, I have to go

I wonder if anyone has ever changed anyones mind on this forum? If so I've never witnessed it. makes it seem kinda pointless.....drat
I've seen it once, though truly it is a rare occurance. I think it requires drinking the blood of a virgin during a solar eclipse, or something along those lines.

We are everywhere :) In the military, the government, etc., etc. I guess I'm saying; doesn't matter what I think or anyone else thinks about gays in the military. We are already there. :)

True. Gay people should never be allowed to die for their country!


Hell, No One should have to die from WAR, But Oh well.

We as well.
Tell me, are you acually in England?

Yeah, I live in Berwick-Upon-Tweed, on the right side of the country, south of the scottish border :)

We are everywhere :) In the military, the government, etc., etc. I guess I'm saying; doesn't matter what I think or anyone else thinks about gays in the military. We are already there. :)


I think that refering to gays as "them" simply Alienates them. We are all united people, Oh no. I'm beginning to sound communist.

Yeah, I live in Berwick-Upon-Tweed, on the right side of the country, south of the scottish border :)


Oh, Cool. I've never been, but I would very much like to go, especialy to Briggham.

Oh, Cool. I've never been, but I would very much like to go, especialy to Briggham.

Is that brigham near carlisle? or a typo (i.e. birmingham :) )

Is that brigham near carlisle? or a typo (i.e. birmingham :) )


I'm not sure, nor am I familiar with the area. It is where Black Sabbath is from.

What Kind of music do you like?

Oh cool! One has to have dreams. 'To be able to visit Brigham'. And where do you live? Skipsea?

I live in Hobbiton, just short of Baggend, in the Shire.

* Looks at the still smoking ruins of the thread. *

My god, there are people living in the ashes.

Not sure if that's where Black Sabbath came from :confused:
I'm into newer rock (linkin park, evanesence etc) and some of the classics like meatloaf.
But without appearing rude fella, we've kind of hijacked the thread, and I think it should get back to it's original topic :D
I'll add you to my dossier so we can talk again :cool:

Ghehe.
I'll just get me cloak. Play easy. :D
Edit: the hijacking was the best thing ever happened in this thread.

Where did all my beautiful flames go?

Not sure if that's where Black Sabbath came from :confused:
I'm into newer rock (linkin park, evanesence etc) and some of the classics like meatloaf.
But without appearing rude fella, we've kind of hijacked the thread, and I think it should get back to it's original topic :D
I'll add you to my dossier so we can talk again :cool:


No offense taken. I telegrammed you.

Finally, I got to the last post. After reading this for over an hour, I'd really like to post what I think.

Though slightly defeatist and off-topic, I had to mention that the homophobic ignoramuses seem to have no concept of grammar. Then again, we must'n't judge...we hire professionals to do that.

Right, now, on topic:

Gays in the military? Why not? Really... For those of you able to grasp ideas that haven't been shoved into your mind from birth, or even ideas that you don't BELIEVE IN (whoaa), you'll realize that people in the military are there to fight for the country, no? I'm just a little boy, but I'd like to think that people join the military to fight for some cause...for protection, for the honor...for an opportunity in life, something.

Should a man be gay, big deal. Should he find me attractive enough to possibly want to know if I'm gay, big deal. I'll reply no, and things will be fine. Should this gay man proceed in "putting the moves on me," I'd politely ask him to stop, just if some chick was picking her nose. (I clarifiy this later)

I live in LA. I've a very diverse upbringing. I'm grateful beyond belief for that. The sad thing is, one can't control being gay. No, lemme rephrase that, it's sad that people are being harassed for something genetic.

I admire those who have "come out," doesn't it feel nice? A few of my friends are still "in," and one has recently come out. I know he feels better. I'm digressing, but I don't care, I'm on a roll and I ain't stoppin.

Gays in the military. Jews in the military. ASIANS IN THE MILITARY. Jeeze, why does it always have to be the black man, or the jew? At least someone mentioned a Hindu, that made me smile. Lets not forget the Asians, eh? (Please, don't mention some other group....I was making a point on how one's focus can become highly limited to standard forms of debate when aggravated)

I agree with the "if you wanna join, do it." As for the homophobes, we shouldn't bash them either. Look, I get weirded out with people who pick their nose. Okay, I'm a nosepickeraphobe. Because nose-picking is a trait that one can fix, I believe it's okay to say "ew."

As for making a negative comment about being gay, keep it to yourself, eh? Don't gimme that "First Ammendment" crap. By law, you can't yell "fire" in a theater, eh? Yeah.


AND STOP MENTIONING GOD!!! This isn't about God, this is about whether Gays can be in the military.

I'm tolerant, and I vote "yea" for gays in the armed forces. No, I go even further. I vote "yea" for acceptance. (how lame was that?)

Ignorance is not a crime, it's an epidemic. One must crush the foul beast with knowledge. Intelligence, however, is a characteristic. The dumb stay dumb. The ignorant can change. Think about it again. The ignorant can become enlightened, but no matter how hard the intellectually-misfortuned soul studies, he / she shall remain in this state. Thus, one shouldn't yell at the dumb or ignorant. Ignore the dumb, and enlighten the ignorant.

By the way, what ever happened to the original debatees? debators? They were fun.

This forum has opened my eyes to that which I already knew: People have different opinions and so be it. I just ask that people think before they speak.

Oh, I also ask that open gays be allowed into the military, or should I already have my request answered, that it remain so.

More people to fight for my protection? Wicked.

Please, tear my argument apart. Rip it apart. I want to know where I've faltered. Now, for an ethical appeal: Go ahead and rip up a plea for equality.

-Mianimas

Once again, or a first if I'ven't done so already, I'd like to thank the participants in this debate for sharing their views. No qualifiers, their views. Not "largely ignorant views" or "quite hilarious views," but views. I've seen sides to this debate I've pondered but never seen in action. As I told a friend of mine earlier this evening, "yeah, it's one debate I never have at school, because these people are too afraid of discussing real issues."

Thank you.

-Mianimas

:sniper: This whole debate has gotten really retarded. I've decided i dont care if they join just make it like women. they can only be in certain stuff. Cause i'm goign into special forces and it's men only and straight men only. Thats how it should be. Then it wouldnt bug me :sniper:

:sniper: This whole debate has gotten really retarded. I've decided i dont care if they join just make it like women. they can only be in certain stuff. Cause i'm goign into special forces and it's men only and straight men only. Thats how it should be. Then it wouldnt bug me :sniper:

Question 1: Where does this 'should' come from?

Question 2: Would you accept special homosexual special forces units?

Question 3: Why do you assume that all men in special forces are heterosexual? Theer doesn't seem to be any evidence that heterosexuality would better equip a person for such a role rather then homosexuality.

Question 4: Why the fascination with the sniper smily?

Question 5: Why should women be restricted to only certain roles in the military solely on the basis of their gender?

I think the main reason that they don't want gays in the US military on this forum is because they're worried about 1,000 men with M-16s yelling, "Who'd you call a faggot?"

I must admit, I find it difficult to believe that people don't want gays in the military for the sole reason of their orientation. That's completely ridiculous. Have you actually heard yourself?

What is your position on gays in the military?

If a man or woman is willing to sell their soul to the U.S. government and ensure the security of the nation I live in so that I can continue to enjoy my Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I don't care if they want to screw men, women, monkeys, watermelons, or whatever else...as long as they're not screwing when they're supposed to be soldiering, more power to them.

Unlike a lot of the posters, I'm old enough to remember when Clinton chickened out on the whole gays in the military bit. I remember an interview with a servicewoman that really stuck with me. At least the part where she said something to this effect.
All the guys are just terrified some guy is going to make an unwanted advance on them. So what? They'll have to put up with the same crap I do.

Question 1: Where does this 'should' come from?

Question 2: Would you accept special homosexual special forces units?

Question 3: Why do you assume that all men in special forces are heterosexual? Theer doesn't seem to be any evidence that heterosexuality would better equip a person for such a role rather then homosexuality.

Question 4: Why the fascination with the sniper smily?

Question 5: Why should women be restricted to only certain roles in the military solely on the basis of their gender?
for number 2 no i wouldnt
number 3: i'm not ositive but i almost am that there are non ecause i no alot of em
number 4: cause i'm a sniper
number 5: because it has been proven that men handel stress and the type of stuff that they need to better then women :sniper:

for number 2 no i wouldnt
number 3: i'm not ositive but i almost am that there are non ecause i no alot of em
number 4: cause i'm a sniper
number 5: because it has been proven that men handel stress and the type of stuff that they need to better then women :sniper:
Besides the fact that DADT is in effect and they are legally obligated not to come out of the closet or be fired.

I'm very impressed with the literacy and well thought out positions of some male snipers. :p

for number 2 no i wouldnt

Why not? Are you suggesting that homosexuals make less effective troops purely on the basis of their sexuality?

number 3: i'm not ositive but i almost am that there are non ecause i no alot of em

The 'Don't Ask/Don't Tell' policy means that they they would not be able to tell you, no? Besides which you say that you aren't positive that there aren't any homosexuals, yes? Surely if your argument holds up it would be obvious if there were any homosexuals as a break down in order and fighting effectiveness would have taken place as a result.

number 4: cause i'm a sniper

Really? So you're trained how to penetrate other men's bodies for a living?

number 5: because it has been proven that men handel stress and the type of stuff that they need to better then women :sniper:

Who proved this and do you have a link to the findings?

number 4: cause i'm a sniper
Metal Gear Solid doesn't count.

number 5: because it has been proven that men handel stress and the type of stuff that they need to better then women :sniper:
Since we all know that it's the woman freaking out when she enters labor, and not the man.

Really? So you're trained how to penetrate other men's bodies for a living?

Ow.

number 3: i'm not ositive but i almost am that there are non ecause i no alot of em

Yes, because I'm sure the ones that are/might be are just dying to tell you because you are such a nice, accepting, compassionate guy.

Guys in the military? I think it's a great idea. Our women don't do enough for us? Now we want them to defend countries by themselves without us even lifting a finger? BAH!

Gays shouldn't be in the military because then if I get drafted I can lie and say I'm gay to get out of it.

number 3: i'm not ositive but i almost am that there are non ecause i no alot of em

It's considered proper ettiquite to debate in a language the other participants understand.

I honestly don't see why not. In fact, I don't see how any kind of restriction on military personnel applicants can be kept up right now, especially since the next countries to be "liberated" are already selected. There's no way Bush can fight another 2 wars and keep anyone out of the military, no matter if he favors men, women, or pieces of fruitcake. As long as he doesn't institute a draft, it's fine.

If there's a draft, I'm goin' to Canada, Bitch!

i personally feel like they shouldnt even be aloud to live. this country is going to hell in a hand basket real quick, we're compromising to many things these days. i say stick to our guns and not let them in. if you dont like it to bad. move.

IMO this is just silly. I don't see how homosexuals can be banned from the military. You'd think this faction would have more problems with homosexuals being educators. If they have such a problem with homosexuality why not let them die defending our country and not let them influence their children?

It's considered proper ettiquite to debate in a language the other parcipitants understand.
I don't think he knows a language the other participants understand.

I don't think he knows a language the other participants understand.

Now, now, let's not be nasty.

i personally feel like they shouldnt even be aloud to live. this country is going to hell in a hand basket real quick, we're compromising to many things these days. i say stick to our guns and not let them in.

Which country? If you mean the USA, then its too late, the flood gates are already open.


if you dont like it to bad. move.

Makes rather a mockery of the USA's genesis as a nation born of dissent, no?

Ok, here's my take on it. The reason Clinton made the compromise is that once he got into office, he got the info that the guys in the military did not want gays fighting alongside them in battle. It lowers morale and reduces the comradery among soldiers. It's the same thing with women, who the men believe they must protect on the battlefield instead of treating them like equal soldiers capable of providing equal protection in return. This is the reason women are not on the army frontlines and gays are not allowed to come out in the military. It's a morale issue, and I agree with the compromise, though I personally think there should be an effort to remove them entirely.

Obviously gays are so perverted than under heavy gun fire, rather than worrying about fighting they'd just be attempting to penetrate me......right..... :headbang:

i personally feel like they shouldnt even be aloud to live. this country is going to hell in a hand basket real quick, we're compromising to many things these days. i say stick to our guns and not let them in. if you dont like it to bad. move.

Funney, I feel the same way about you.
And maybe your the one who should move, if you don't like the direction we're taking the country.
I hear they have lots of nice theocracies in the middle east...

Ok, here's my take on it. The reason Clinton made the compromise is that once he got into office, he got the info that the guys in the military did not want gays fighting alongside them in battle. It lowers morale and reduces the comradery among soldiers. It's the same thing with women, who the men believe they must protect on the battlefield instead of treating them like equal soldiers capable of providing equal protection in return. This is the reason women are not on the army frontlines and gays are not allowed to come out in the military. It's a morale issue, and I agree with the compromise, though I personally think there should be an effort to remove them entirely.


Yes, which is why the armed forces of Australia, Israel and Great Britain have seen such a simliar slump in morale. Not too mention half a dozen of our other major allies.

Obviously gays are so perverted than under heavy gun fire, rather than worrying about fighting they'd just be attempting to penetrate me......right..... :headbang:

Ok, I'm not saying that that will happen. I'm just saying it reduces morale and comradery among soldiers, which reduces combat efficiency.

Now, now, let's not be nasty.I'm trying not to be, but stupidity + intolerance + illiteracy really bug me. Besides, it probably went over his head, so no harm done.

Ok, I'm not saying that that will happen. I'm just saying it reduces morale and comradery among soldiers, which reduces combat efficiency.

And yet the experiences of our allies doesn't show that. Indeed the experiences of some of my friends who were in the military doesn't show that. They seem to be more tolerant than the general population.

Ok, here's my take on it. The reason Clinton made the compromise is that once he got into office, he got the info that the guys in the military did not want gays fighting alongside them in battle. It lowers morale and reduces the comradery among soldiers. It's the same thing with women, who the men believe they must protect on the battlefield instead of treating them like equal soldiers capable of providing equal protection in return. This is the reason women are not on the army frontlines and gays are not allowed to come out in the military. It's a morale issue, and I agree with the compromise, though I personally think there should be an effort to remove them entirely.

I suppose it may affect morale [even though people SHOULD be open minded, they are not] and it is the Government's job to ensure we are protected from international threats as best as they can, so a higher morale is obviously good. However, isn't the government also there to ensure that it's people have freedom? Doesn't this kind of trump the need for national defence? You should fix things domestically before worrying about international issues.

I suppose it may affect morale [even though people SHOULD be open minded, they are not] and it is the Government's job to ensure we are protected from international threats as best as they can, so a higher morale is obviously good. However, isn't the government also there to ensure that it's people have freedom? Doesn't this kind of trump the need for national defence? You should fix things domestically before worrying about international issues.

You know how they say there are no atheists in the trenches? Well I doubt there are any homophobes either. All you care about is the person next you being able to hold a gun.

Ok, I'm not saying that that will happen. I'm just saying it reduces morale and comradery among soldiers, which reduces combat efficiency.

Yeah, you make a good point. That post was aimed more at the moron extremists in this thread and the world in general.

I suppose it may affect morale [even though people SHOULD be open minded, they are not] and it is the Government's job to ensure we are protected from international threats as best as they can, so a higher morale is obviously good. However, isn't the government also there to ensure that it's people have freedom? Doesn't this kind of trump the need for national defence? You should fix things domestically before worrying about international issues.

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environment, and the close living quarters with gays is extremely uncomfortable and offensive to many straights. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environment, and the close living quarters with gays is extremely uncomfortable and offensive to many straights. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environment (I'm sorry, this just has to be ironic. Non-hostile work environment IN THE MILITARY?), and the close living quarters with blacks is extremely uncomfortable and offensive to many whites. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environment, and the close living quarters with gays is extremely uncomfortable and offensive to many straights. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environmnet, and the close living quarters with blacks is extremely uncomfortable to and offensive to many whites. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

You know how they say there are no atheists in the trenches? Well I doubt there are any homophobes either. All you care about is the person next you being able to hold a gun.

You aren't always in the trenches, you know. And being able to form a close bond with your unit is important, and this can be very difficult when gays are involved.

You know how they say there are no atheists in the trenches? Well I doubt there are any homophobes either. All you care about is the person next you being able to hold a gun.

Yeah I agree but what about muslim trenches? :)

What I wrote came out funny though. I'm saying that before we worry about troop moral so we can better protect our rights, we should ensure that EVERYONE is getting those rights. Including the right for gays to join the military.

Plus, if they have time to induldge in homosexual activity then all the other people are probably induldging in heterosexual activity, weather it be between two or more men and women in the armed forces of whacking off alone to a nudy mag. What's the difference? They should both get back to work!

You aren't always in the trenches, you know. And being able to form a close bond with your unit is important, and this can be very difficult when gays are involved.


Again, I reiterate as you have chosen to ignore: This simply hasn't happened in the armed forces of our allies. They are doing just fine. If someone cannot get along with their unit, that is THEIR problem.

Yes if a gay man hits on your repeatedly that is a problem--with their behavior. The same occurs if a man repeatedly hits on a female coworker. You get one shot, tell them no, and move on. If they dont' stop its stalking.

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environmnet, and the close living quarters with blacks is extremely uncomfortable to and offensive to many whites. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

Race is not a choice for anyone, so it is not a reasonable basis for discrimination. However, sexuality is a choice. This makes it a reasonable basis for discrimination. This ranges from homosexual activity to heterosexual activity, both of which can get you thrown out, by the way.

Race is not a choice for anyone, so it is not a reasonable basis for discrimination. However, sexuality is a choice. This makes it a reasonable basis for discrimination. This ranges from homosexual activity to heterosexual activity, both of which can get you thrown out, by the way.
Prove it.

Race is not a choice for anyone, so it is not a reasonable basis for discrimination. However, sexuality is a choice. This makes it a reasonable basis for discrimination. This ranges from homosexual activity to heterosexual activity, both of which can get you thrown out, by the way.

Sexuality is not a choice. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm sure the APA, AMA, and everyone professional scientific organization would love to hear it.

However, having sex IS a choice. And has been pointed out, no one should have sex on the job.

Ok, you may not agree that homosexuality is a choice (though I believe it is), but you can't deny that there is a choice to engage in any sexual activity. If homosexuals just don't practice or preach their preference in the military, under current rules they are not in any danger.

Pracus, I agree with you completely. We may disagree on the choice of preference, but we agree sex should stay out of the workplace. Any workplace, including the military.

Ok, you may not agree that homosexuality is a choice (though I believe it is), but you can't deny that there is a choice to engage in any sexual activity. If homosexuals just don't practice or preach their preference in the military, under current rules they are not in any danger.
In theory. In practice, no.


And why can't they say what their sexuality is any more then any other individual?

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?
Yes, it does. How can we have that freedom WITH that strong military [one where gays are banned]? That strong military is coming at the expense of those freedoms!

The people in the military, by the way, have the right to a non-hostile work environment, and the close living quarters with gays is extremely uncomfortable and offensive to many straights. Shouldn't we protect their rights, too?

I think the RIGHT to defend one's country would trump the 'RIGHT' to have a comfortable work environemnt.

Ok, you may not agree that homosexuality is a choice (though I believe it is), but you can't deny that there is a choice to engage in any sexual activity. If homosexuals just don't practice or preach their preference in the military, under current rules they are not in any danger.

So basically they should be content to just be quiet and pushed to the corner because someone else might not like them. That sounds remarkably like jr. high school behavior to me.

I have a message for everyone out there:

Grow Up. Not everything is going to make your comfortable or happy. However, gay people are doing no harm to you. They want to be themselves, to have their relationships recognized by the government, and the right to fight to defend the country they love (even if that country doesnt' love or respect them).

That does no harm. And again (as you continue to ignore) GAYS BEING OUT IN THE MILITARIES OF OUR ALLIES HAS CAUSED *NO* FAILURE OF MORALITY.

Pracus, I agree with you completely. We may disagree on the choice of preference, but we agree sex should stay out of the workplace. Any workplace, including the military.


And because of that, there is no reason that gays shouldn't be able to be in the military and be as "out" about it as any heterosexual is.

Ok, you may not agree that homosexuality is a choice (though I believe it is),
Sorry to break it to you, but the universe doesn't conform to your beliefs.

Again, I reiterate as you have chosen to ignore: This simply hasn't happened in the armed forces of our allies. They are doing just fine. If someone cannot get along with their unit, that is THEIR problem.

Yes if a gay man hits on your repeatedly that is a problem--with their behavior. The same occurs if a man repeatedly hits on a female coworker. You get one shot, tell them no, and move on. If they dont' stop its stalking.

*Sobs* I remember when being persistant was romantic....

Pracus, I agree with you completely. We may disagree on the choice of preference, but we agree sex should stay out of the workplace. Any workplace, including the military.



okay

agreed


Only one condition though, we also need a DADT rule for heteros as well

Sorry to break it to you, but the universe doesn't conform to your beliefs.

Nor those of others including the AMA and such. There is no concrete proof either way. To me, though, it doesn't really matter. If it is a choice, it is a choice they should be allowed to make without recourse, so it's a moot point anyway to me......so I don't really know why I posted at all.

Ok, I'm not saying that that will happen. I'm just saying it reduces morale and comradery among soldiers, which reduces combat efficiency.They said the same thing about blacks in the military serving with white troops. They got over it then, they will again.

You're saying that the freedom to join the military trumps the need for national defense! How can you have that freedom without a strong military?

The Vatican City seems to manage quite well with 12 or so Swiss troops...

Question: should gays be allowed to bear arms in the USA, given that the main reason for the right to bear arms seems to be tied to defense of the realm?

The Vatican City seems to manage quite well with 12 or so Swiss troops...

Yeah, but those Michaelangelo uniforms must count for at least thirty or forty divisions though.

The Vatican City seems to manage quite well with 12 or so Swiss troops...

Question: should gays be allowed to bear arms in the USA, given that the main reason for the right to bear arms seems to be tied to defense of the realm?

THE REALM OF UNDERWORLD!!!!

Sorry, Mortal Kombat flashbacks.

THE REALM OF UNDERWORLD!!!!

Sorry, Mortal Kombat flashbacks.

That would be a young person's reference, I take it?

I say draft all the gays we can, give them an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle :mp5: , and put them on the front line. (Operation Meatshield.) Might sound kinda harsh to some people, but hey, kinda makes both sides happy at the same time. Everybody wins. :sniper:

I say draft all the gays we can, give them an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle :mp5: , and put them on the front line. (Operation Meatshield.) Might sound kinda harsh to some people, but hey, kinda makes both sides happy at the same time. Everybody wins. :sniper:

I agree, only I think we should do it with the homophobes. After they are gone, gays will get into the military and no on will have to be unhappy about it.

... :mp5: .... :sniper:

Am I the only one noticing a strong correlation between homophobia and smilies with guns?

I say draft all the gays we can, give them an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle :mp5: , and put them on the front line. (Operation Meatshield.) Might sound kinda harsh to some people, but hey, kinda makes both sides happy at the same time. Everybody wins. :sniper:
Everybody wins except for decency compassion and fairness

I say draft all the gays we can, give them an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle :mp5: , and put them on the front line. (Operation Meatshield.) Might sound kinda harsh to some people, but hey, kinda makes both sides happy at the same time. Everybody wins. :sniper:

gee whiz, you're so funny! Lol, I bet the American public would be dying with laughter over that body count. *ha*! Aye, "lets throw all them gays into war, let em die on the frontlines, yay!"

Get your head out of your ass, and take a lil bit to think before you post, eh?

And whaddya mean about "both sides?" The bigoted and the enemy? oh, so you mean "two sides," not "both sides." I get it. I was almost offended by you sweeping me into your ignorant group.

Good thing we straightened that one out. (nice pun)

-Mianimas

oh, and the gays that dont wanna fight


and all the people who care about them



and everyone else, as if drafts were reinstated, eventually they would need more people and theyd come a knovking to everyones door

The homophobes are just scared they might have to be grateful for a gay man being more manly than they are, and saving their lives in combat.

Feel free to rip that one up, as it was completely hypocritical (I didn't think before I posted) of my last statement.

-Mianimas

Actually, homophobes suffer from ignorant views. Blame society, not them.

That would be a young person's reference, I take it?

Yeah, it's a video game.......grandpa! {sorry couldn't help it]

I've an idea.

Lets make military service compulsory for everyone over the age of 12.

Give em a few minutes to learn what the hell they're doing, then send em to die.

That way, everyone's happy! No more population crisis, and I bet those "damn gays" are dead too! yay!!

Btw, I support gays in the military, and the military itself.

-Mianimas

Am I the only one noticing a strong correlation between homophobia and smilies with guns?
LMAO
Can we say fear of inadequate masculinity?

Lets make military service compulsory for everyone over the age of 12.

Give em a few minutes to learn what the hell they're doing, then send em to die.

Pah. Bed-wetting liberal. If sending 9 year olds in human waves was good enough for the Iranian military 1980-88, then it should be good enough for the USA.

If they have to restart the draft, which they might, the fact that they don't allow gays in will create huge problems. Why? Because every person who didn't want to get drafted would say that he was gay to get out of it. This would undermine the effectiveness of the draft in a huge way.

might seem kind of random but would all the people here suporting homos in the military also support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities?


Am I the only one noticing a strong correlation between homophobia and smilies with guns?

i have not used a single gun smiley yet, and i'm sure many of you would label me a homophobe...

might seem kind of random but would all the people here suporting homos in the military also support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities?




i have not used a single gun smiley yet, and i'm sure many of you would label me a homophobe...
He said strong not absolute

And yes I would support co-ed washrooms though I am more of a total privacy sort of guy irregardless if it is female or male company

I think that if someone is willing to risk their life for their country and their beliefs, they should at least have the priviledge of boinking whoever they want. :) (Assuming the boinkee approves.)

I really don't thin homosexuals should be allowed into the military for a simple reason - they like men and are willing to :fluffle: with them. Let's say you are a straight soldier (without a pathetically large ego) and you are changing in front of many other men. Its probably not embarrassing because, well, they are men too and are not going to care about or stare at another man's naked body. But let's say there is a homosexual there...would it not be more embarrassing and uncomfortable?

So those soldiers, trained to administer quick and efficient death and destruction, charged with fearlessly defending your nation against enemies and providing aid amidst the horrors of disaster would cower in fear and shock on the prospect of someone thinking they are attractive ? So if the enemy sends homosexuals at them, they would run away screaming like proverbial little girls ?

Maybe it would be better to adress that fear instead of repressing it.

So those soldiers, trained to administer quick and efficient death and destruction, charged with fearlessly defending your nation against enemies and providing aid amidst the horrors of disaster would cower in fear and shock on the prospect of someone thinking they are attractive ? So if the enemy sends homosexuals at them, they would run away screaming like proverbial little girls ?

Maybe it would be better to adress that fear instead of repressing it.

Maybe Al Qaeda should employ gay rapists. :D

Hmm, maybe straight guys in the military get jealous over the fact that gay men have the possibility of scoring while they don't. The solution? More women in the military and co-ed shower rooms! :fluffle:s for everyone!

Metal Gear Solid doesn't count.
.


Really? So you're trained how to penetrate other men's bodies for a living?
.
How bout you people shet the hell up ok. I do shit to help keep you ppl safe at night and u ppl dotn give a rats ass. It's ppl liek you that make me sick. You have no appreciation for your service men. Just cause i'm a really good shot. You ppl need to learn some respect for your soilders. If it wasnt for us it'd be just like iraq here. we'd beliving in fear every day. w/ no freedom. I think you ppl just need to shut up.

Maybe Al Qaeda should employ gay rapists. :D
We wouldn run away we'd shoot them. Thats what we do.

"You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight." - Late Conservative Senator Barry Goldwater's view on this subject

How bout you people shet the hell up ok. I do shit to help keep you ppl safe at night and u ppl dotn give a rats ass. It's ppl liek you that make me sick. You have no appreciation for your service men. Just cause i'm a really good shot. You ppl need to learn some respect for your soilders. If it wasnt for us it'd be just like iraq here. we'd beliving in fear every day. w/ no freedom. I think you ppl just need to shut up.
I'm not very happy with our president's decision to go to war.

You aren't saving us. We were better off before the war. Your saving Iraqis who don't want to be influenced by our culture

How bout you people shet the hell up ok. I do shit to help keep you ppl safe at night and u ppl dotn give a rats ass. It's ppl liek you that make me sick. You have no appreciation for your service men. Just cause i'm a really good shot. You ppl need to learn some respect for your soilders. If it wasnt for us it'd be just like iraq here. we'd beliving in fear every day. w/ no freedom. I think you ppl just need to shut up.


--cheapass comment edited out here---

Explain to me how invading Iraq on the pretext of non-existent weapons of mass destruction makes me safer, would you?

Surely, if you are actually a US serviceman, one of the things you are fighting to protect is the right of free speech, no? Rather hard to square that with being told to shut up.

Aside from the fact that I am not, nor have I ever been an American citizen...

I gotta tell ya, this one buggs the hell outa me. The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out. If the people would rather have themselves defended by gays, fine. This is one of the last remainders of mans world and I am horrifed that it may be gone
im sorry to tell you this but the dont ask dont tell policy lets them be in the military.
bye. i hear they still hate gays in Italy maybe you can try there.

might seem kind of random but would all the people here suporting homos in the military also support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities?


Of course I support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities. The college I'm going to has mainly co-ed bathrooms, which stay incredibly clean, and it really seems irrational to me why everyone's embarrassed over things that are just parts of the body.

Yes, which is why the armed forces of Australia, Israel and Great Britain have seen such a simliar slump in morale. Not too mention half a dozen of our other major allies.

I was in the UK military and I know for fact the molale was low.... but this had nothing to do with gays.
It was about bullshit politics and defence cuts.
Lots of good servicemen lost theirs jobs because there wasn't enough room for promotion, lots of others left because of the iraq war, people who stayed in got pissed off because there wasn't enough funding for decent kit, spares, and tools.
Oh, and servicemen had to do twice the work-load because of the budget cuts/ personell cuts.

So yeah you was right about the worrying slump in moral, but not the reasons behind it.

The guy who has a locker next to mine in PE is bisexual. I don't feel uncomfortable in that situation, it's not my problem what his sexual orientation is, so why would I have any objections to getting stuck in a trench with him if I was in the military? If a man or woman can get the job done, they should be allowed in the military.

no one should be allowed to join the US military.

might seem kind of random but would all the people here suporting homos in the military also support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities?

Sure, why not ?

might seem kind of random but would all the people here suporting homos in the military also support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities?

I bet the homos wouldn't. :D

I was in the UK military and I know for fact the molale was low.... but this had nothing to do with gays.
It was about bullshit politics and defence cuts.
Lots of good servicemen lost theirs jobs because there wasn't enough room for promotion, lots of others left because of the iraq war, people who stayed in got pissed off because there wasn't enough funding for decent kit, spares, and tools.
Oh, and servicemen had to do twice the work-load because of the budget cuts/ personell cuts.

So yeah you was right about the worrying slump in moral, but not the reasons behind it.


Yeah, I just realized that i typed that wrong. I was meaning to say that our allies haven't seen a slump in moral DUE to gays in their militaries. Hell, the Israeli military in particular is doing just fine.

I bet the homos wouldn't. :D

Sorry, incorrect answer. This homo at least would. Now, I'd rather them have private stalls (as someone pointed out previously) but that's just because I'm a private person anyways, regardless of which gender is in the restroom with me.

I'm not very happy with our president's decision to go to war.

You aren't saving us. We were better off before the war. Your saving Iraqis who don't want to be influenced by our culture
So what your saying is that your fellwo americans dyign for freedom is rong that were dying for the wrong reason. You make me sick

The subject has been mentioned in other threads, but I haven't seen it really discussed.

Currently, the United States is working under the infamous "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy, a compromise between Clinton, who had promised open allowance of gays in the military, and conservatives. Under this policy, while they can boot you out for being gay, your commanding officer can't ask or try to find out.

What is your position on gays in the military?

If i didn't know better i'd swear that was stolen straight from Catch-22
Who needs absurdist fiction when you've got US politics eh?

Wow, I'm impressed. I read all 13 of this guys posts and he's 100% consistent. An absolute idiot.

I'm not sure why people think that the armed forces should be pandering to misplaced fear and ignorance in its staff. You'd think that they'd have more important things to worry about like, say, getting shot.

Anyway, there's a wonderful solution to this dilemma; so obvious, in fact, that I'm surprised nobody's implemented it yet. All you have to do is ask each recruit whether or not they have a problem with serving alongside a homosexual. If they have, they're put into the high-risk regiments and given all the nasty Operation Certain Death assignments.

All we need to do is ensure that there's a steady supply of bigots and the unthinking. Evolution in action, and everybody's happy! Everybody wins!

(Well, the meat shields might end up blown to pieces, but they'll have the comfort that they were blown to pieces in a traditional manly way, without any of those damned fags eyeing up what's left of their corpses).

I'm not sure why people think that the armed forces should be pandering to misplaced fear and ignorance in its staff. You'd think that they'd have more important things to worry about like, say, getting shot.

Anyway, there's a wonderful solution to this dilemma; so obvious, in fact, that I'm surprised nobody's implemented it yet. All you have to do is ask each recruit whether or not they have a problem with serving alongside a homosexual. If they have, they're put into the high-risk regiments and given all the nasty Operation Certain Death assignments.

All we need to do is ensure that there's a steady supply of bigots and the unthinking. Evolution in action, and everybody's happy! Everybody wins!

(Well, the meat shields might end up blown to pieces, but they'll have the comfort that they were blown to pieces in a traditional manly way, without any of those damned fags eyeing up what's left of their corpses).

i love how nothing happens when someone says something like this but if you were to say the same thing about homos... well people have already done that and we saw how it turned out.

good job with the whole impartiality thing mods...

i love how nothing happens when someone says something like this but if you were to say the same thing about homos... well people have already done that and we saw how it turned out.

good job with the whole impartiality thing mods...

Well when gays start hating straight people for no good reason, then they too will deserve this treatment. Until then, you'll kindly notice he didn't mention anything about tolerant straights with more than half a brain getting sent to certain death, which was the point of the post.

So what your saying is that your fellwo americans dyign for freedom is rong that were dying for the wrong reason. You make me sick

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Iraq wasn't invaded in the name of freedom, but instead because of the possibility of the regime there possessing weapons of mass destruction in breach of UN regulations put in place at the end of the first Gulf War, yes? Or were the political leaders of 'the Coalition of the Willing' lying to their people when they told us this?

Gays in the military - how bout this? I forget where I heard this, but:
Just leave the decision up to their commanding officer if their homosexuality is causing their unit a problem. Granted, some commanding officers might be homophobes but that doesn't seem like a bad risk...

Gays in the military - how bout this? I forget where I heard this, but:
Just leave the decision up to their commanding officer if their homosexuality is causing their unit a problem.

Question: is it their homosexuality that is causing a problem, or the homophobia of others?

The Theban sacred band was one of the greatest military units of their day. And they were ALL gay.

Just thought I'd say.

We're Americans ... we are incapable of learning from history.
*laughs at all the silly americans*

look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... Where did you get that from? Most dogs are bi, jumping on each other and humping people’s legs...

Now what the flying fuck was that?! You implied that African Americans, women, and porn are weird? Well, if thats what you think then I won't stop you. Its your right.
I think that they were saying that they were considered as unequal back in the times when they ‘wern’t allowed’...

I realized along time ago Its impossible to get you people to understand the concept of God. Do you understand the concept of the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

because it has been proven that men handel stress and the type of stuff that they need to better then women Oh pu-lease! Excuse the generalisation, but Woman (is general) are better at coping with mental anything than Men. Men can occasionally punch harder.

I do shit to help keep you ppl safe at night and u ppl dotn give a rats ass.
*translates out of profanity*

“I do nothing to help keep you people safe at night and you people don’t care.”

What?

I say draft all the gays we can, give them an hour or two to learn how to use an automatic rifle :mp5: , and put them on the front line. (Operation Meatshield.) Might sound kinda harsh to some people, but hey, kinda makes both sides happy at the same time. Everybody wins. :sniper:
[horrible misquote]"And the rest of you will be part of Operation Get Behind the Darkies." [/horrible misquote]

How bout you people shet the hell up ok. I do shit to help keep you ppl safe at night and u ppl dotn give a rats ass. It's ppl liek you that make me sick. You have no appreciation for your service men. Just cause i'm a really good shot. You ppl need to learn some respect for your soilders. If it wasnt for us it'd be just like iraq here. we'd beliving in fear every day. w/ no freedom. I think you ppl just need to shut up.
No, you don't. 12-year olds aren't allowed in the military.

No, you don't. 12-year olds aren't allowed in the military.
What the hell are you talkign about. I'm 25 asshole.

What the hell are you talkign about. I'm 25 asshole.
Learn how to spell and type then. You write like a 12 year old.

I was in the military. I knew some service members who were gay. I don't see what the big deal is. They didn't cause any problems and did their jobs. And when it's time to run a security drill involving a hostage taking, you can't do better for a hostage than the flaming queer. High comedy.

Then there were the two straight guys who claimed to be gay just so they could get thrown out. You just know those guys had to kiss each other and make it look like they liked it in front of some officer somewhere. Again, high comedy. And anyone who would go to those lengths to get thrown out isn't someone I want to serve beside, anyway.

I certainly wouldn't want to serve with this BlackOpps guy, either. I'm not sure if he knows which end of the gun is supposed to point at the enemy.

Then there were the two straight guys who claimed to be gay just so they could get thrown out. You just know those guys had to kiss each other and make it look like they liked it in front of some officer somewhere. Again, high comedy. And anyone who would go to those lengths to get thrown out isn't someone I want to serve beside, anyway.

That is funny.

Tarakaze[/B] Oh pu-lease! Excuse the generalisation, but Woman (is general) are better at coping with mental anything than Men. Men can occasionally punch harder.


Like what?
Can you explain the screaming?

Like what?
Can you explain the screaming?Just because I'm noisy doesn't mean I can't kick ass.
And if guys had to give birth, the species would be extinct. Besides, I've known a lot more guys than girls who whine like they're dying everytime they have the flu/headache/hangnail. :p

Just because I'm noisy doesn't mean I can't kick ass.
And if guys had to give birth, the species would be extinct. Besides, I've known a lot more guys than girls who whine like they're dying everytime they have the flu/headache/hangnail. :p
And I have seen plenty of girls do the same ... (Im sorry I am all for females in the military but it hurts to be belittle just to make the point that females can do a good job too (I know you ... you can make your point without bringing the other side down))

And I have seen plenty of girls do the same ... (Im sorry I am all for females in the military but it hurts to be belittle just to make the point that females can do a good job too (I know you ... you can make your point without bringing the other side down))
Sorry. My roommates (both guys) point out I male bash a bit. But the statement about the whiny sick men I've known is true. I always put it down to the idea that men are used to women taking care of them when they're sick. Women are used to being the care-taker more often, so they don't get to be the nursee, just the nurser.

Sorry. My roommates (both guys) point out I male bash a bit. But the statement about the whiny sick men I've known is true. I always put it down to the idea that men are used to women taking care of them when they're sick. Women are used to being the care-taker more often, so they don't get to be the nursee, just the nurser.

Oh. My. Fucking. God. I know what you're talking about. I can relate.

My dad's a total whiner when he gets sick. Tasks I can easily accomplish myself when I have an ailment such as the Flu, well, he won't even get out of bed for them when he has a headcold. What the fuck is it with guys like him? Is it so hard to walk thirty feet to the kitchen to get yourself a glass of water when your head is stuffy?

Oh, and he's big on the whole double-standard thing. I think that might be one of the main causes.

Learn how to spell and type then. You write like a 12 year old.

Hey, that's an insult to twelve-year-olds. When I was that age, I could type pretty much just as well as I do now, sir/ma'am/whatever.

Sorry. My roommates (both guys) point out I male bash a bit. But the statement about the whiny sick men I've known is true. I always put it down to the idea that men are used to women taking care of them when they're sick. Women are used to being the care-taker more often, so they don't get to be the nursee, just the nurser.
Then there are those like me that have not so much as taken a sick day in 7 years of work and pull 72 hrs a week + collage + teaching 2 classes

They are not always representative of the whole gender (neither am I)
But you based your argument off of detracting from the male rather then giving full credit to those that are female (a much better standpoint) and a much stronger foothold

I can see if someone made the claime that men always 'buckle down and take it" or something else and you were pointing out that in fact they do not. but that’s not what happened here (unless I mis-read or forgot to read something ... if that is the case forgive me)

Don’t get me wrong ... I just don’t like being stereotyped (I don’t think anyone does)

I kinda feel left out since im not in the army or any military or anything, But wount you guys rather be standing next to a gay person, than stand alone?

i rather stand alone or die for that matter

[QUOTE=Bitchkitten][QUOTE]And if guys had to give birth, the species would be extinct.

That old chestnut, we cant prove if its true or false, so its irrelevant.
You are aware of course that the majority of western women take drugs now to cope with the pain during childproof. Kind of takes away from your primitive chest thumping abit doesnt it?

Besides, I've known a lot more guys than girls who whine like they're dying everytime they have the flu/headache/hangnail.

Its to get your attention, so you can play mother, we know you like doing that, so we complain and whine.
Havent you figured that out yet?

no matter what race, sex, citisenship, social class, a citizen belongs to, if they want to join the military they should be welcomed as any other person.
If the US start picking people by their beliefs the mulitary wouldn't have much people.

on the original topic:

interestingly in my experience i notice most people who are for allowing gays in the military have never actually served in the military or know much about it.

nearly every male in my family, and almost every good friend i have has been in the military or is currently in. as such i have a different perspective.

the military is not like civilian life. it is an entirely different world ruled by the UCMJ(uniform code of military justice) regulation, chain of command, and tradition.

allowing gays in the US military is and always will be a bad idea because it negatively affects squad cohesion and teamwork soldiers are trained in and rely on. both of which are life and death issues in combat. similarly adultry is a crime in the military for much the same reason even though it hasn't been one in civilian society for over 100 years.

What the hell are you talkign about. I'm 25 asshole.
If you're 25 then our education system is even more fucked than I thought. Learn to write, kid. Nobody likes illiterates.

Then there are those like me that have not so much as taken a sick day in 7 years of work and pull 72 hrs a week + collage + teaching 2 classes

What type of collages do you make?

i rather stand alone or die for that matter
I'll send flowers.

on the original topic:

interestingly in my experience i notice most people who are for allowing gays in the military have never actually served in the military or know much about it.
Hi there. I'm the guy a couple posts back who said he was a veteran, and didn't see what the fuss was about. Remember me? Incidentally, that was a pretty common attitude. That really effeminate dude I told the anecdote about earlier (the hostage drill) was widely known to be gay, and as far as I know, nobody made a big deal out of it. He got ragged on from time to time, but it was the military, and everybody got ragged on from time to time.

nearly every male in my family, and almost every good friend i have has been in the military or is currently in. as such i have a different perspective.
All that proves is that you know a lot of homophobes.

the military is not like civilian life. it is an entirely different world ruled by the UCMJ(uniform code of military justice) regulation, chain of command, and tradition.
And your point is?

And forget about tradition. The military had a lot of traditions which were just plain stupid, and following tradition was never an excuse if you got called up in front of the old man for some non-judicial punishment.
allowing gays in the US military is and always will be a bad idea because it negatively affects squad cohesion and teamwork soldiers are trained in and rely on. both of which are life and death issues in combat. similarly adultry is a crime in the military for much the same reason even though it hasn't been one in civilian society for over 100 years.
You're right about cohesion, but you're wrong about how you achieve it. If you think keeping gays away is the answer, then why stop there? Why not just segregate the entire force by race, religion, home state, political persuasion, education level, and music preference?

Military units are made up of people from widely divergent backgrounds and lifestyles, and still manage cohesion. They do it through unity of purpose, and shared circumstance. Who pumps who in the what has nothing to do with whether you can count on someone under fire.

Of course I support co-ed washrooms/showering facilities. The college I'm going to has mainly co-ed bathrooms, which stay incredibly clean, and it really seems irrational to me why everyone's embarrassed over things that are just parts of the body.

So its not because you like perving on naked chicks? :)

What do you people get so fired up about this debate for? What's the point of discussing anything with a person who has volunteered for military service anyway? Adding that he's an American surely rules out an ability to reason or have an objective view on things. These poor suckers are fed propaganda from day one and end up believing their country is a great, freedom-loving, democratic, caring-for-the-well-being-of-the-world nation. While the rest of us know them for the right-wing, neo-fascist, capitalist murderers they are. How did they get this stupid? Well, the people that did leave Europe for America were the ones that weren't able to make it here; they're all bred from the same shallow gene-pool.

Oh, and remember: the Iraqis fighting the US troops aren't terrorists, their a regular resistance movement, well within their rights to fight an occupying force, just like the Palestinians. Do historians call resistance movements in Europe during WWII terrorists? I think not.

(I realize all of this is a bit unfair towards the Americans that can think for themselves and know how the world works... they do infact exist. But I'm just trying to make a point here.)

What do you people get so fired up about this debate for?
If all you can contribute is flaming and bashing you should refrain from posting. In short words, stfu.

What do you people get so fired up about this debate for? What's the point of discussing anything with a person who has volunteered for military service anyway? Adding that he's an American surely rules out an ability to reason or have an objective view on things. These poor suckers are fed propaganda from day one and end up believing their country is a great, freedom-loving, democratic, caring-for-the-well-being-of-the-world nation. While the rest of us know them for the right-wing, neo-fascist, capitalist murderers they are. How did they get this stupid? Well, the people that did leave Europe for America were the ones that weren't able to make it here; they're all bred from the same shallow gene-pool.

Oh, and remember: the Iraqis fighting the US troops aren't terrorists, their a regular resistance movement, well within their rights to fight an occupying force, just like the Palestinians. Do historians call resistance movements in Europe during WWII terrorists? I think not.

(I realize all of this is a bit unfair towards the Americans that can think for themselves and know how the world works... they do infact exist. But I'm just trying to make a point here.)

Unfortunately, the American government has taken on a bigger responsibility in the world, perhaps much more than it should have done so soon, but the key disturbing fact here is that most of these "insurgent" groups fighting the occupation were actually trained and supplied during the first Gulf War by the Allies to help topple Saddam's regime, with the promise they would never be left behind ...as no american soldier would, but nope... the Allies left alot of them and their families to be slaughtered with their lies.... I TOTALLY understand them, problem being you get other groups who are not fighting for their own right and freedom, but instead are just evil using the situation as an excuse to grow their own small power base. Throughout history this happens in any conflict which involves certain elements of a civil war.

As you said, the Dutch and French resistance in WW2 against the Germans could be deemed "Terrorists" back then, it's the propaganda that throws public opinion......

Gays in the military, main topic .... I personally wouldn't have any problems fighting alongside them, they bleed the same, fight the same wars, they are human ....and to be honest, if your too worried about your arse getting looked at whilst your firing off heavy armour against an opposing force, quit the damn military and get a job in some corporation office.
How many straight guys start firing off rounds and all of a sudden start fantasising about their favourite lady pr0n star? ....not many, and how long would they survive if that were the case?

Suprising anyone could even have a negative opinion against them on this, look at the Bill Hick's quote, it's spot on.

on the original topic:

interestingly in my experience i notice most people who are for allowing gays in the military have never actually served in the military or know much about it.

nearly every male in my family, and almost every good friend i have has been in the military or is currently in. as such i have a different perspective.

the military is not like civilian life. it is an entirely different world ruled by the UCMJ(uniform code of military justice) regulation, chain of command, and tradition.

allowing gays in the US military is and always will be a bad idea because it negatively affects squad cohesion and teamwork soldiers are trained in and rely on. both of which are life and death issues in combat. similarly adultry is a crime in the military for much the same reason even though it hasn't been one in civilian society for over 100 years.

The homophobes in the military just need to get over it. The same bullshit arguement about morale and troop cohesion was given as an objection when blacks and whites were integrated in the military.
My brother is in the army and it wouldn't bother him a bit. He's had gay roommates and has even slept in the same bed with my gay roommate. (They came in drunk and couldn't decide who got the bed)
I'm happy to say that even though my brother is straight, he doesn't think it makes him better than someone who's not.

If Gays are "mincing" about pissing me off , then sure ....they would have to go, but in all honest ...and this goes for EVERYONE on this board, can you honestly say that straight people haven't annoyed you more so in your lifetime?... sure they have, simply because they are the majority.

All issues aside, I got a campaign to plan for ...called "STRAIGHT RIGHTS" and i'm going to parade through town with my straight brothers and sisters in unification, showing how proud we are of our straight sexuality, only one problem being is that nobody would join me as they are too busy having grievances with "fags , queers and dykes" !!

Such a de-evolved race of retards if these questions are still being asked, with all this technology boom and hype, think we forgot on how to evolve as human beings, the simple things count for so much more as there are more of them.

I got a campaign to plan for ...called "STRAIGHT RIGHTS" and i'm going to parade through town with my straight brothers and sisters in unification, showing how proud we are of our straight sexuality, only one problem being is that nobody would join me as they are too busy having grievances with "fags , queers and dykes" !!
already had this discussion...

the problem with such a campaign is that it is politically incorrect. you would immediantly be labeled as intolerant, an extremists, a homophobe and a host of other un-flattering labels. people would not join you because they were "to busy with grievances" but rather that as the majority they would not want to appear as having any of theses negative labels applied to them.

not to mention the gay community would be offended and the ACLU would probably sue you.
;)