NationStates Jolt Archive

The subject has been mentioned in other threads, but I haven't seen it really discussed.

Currently, the United States is working under the infamous "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy, a compromise between Clinton, who had promised open allowance of gays in the military, and conservatives. Under this policy, while they can boot you out for being gay, your commanding officer can't ask or try to find out.

What is your position on gays in the military?

Why not? If they wish to join the military let them.

I honestly don't see why not. In fact, I don't see how any kind of restriction on military personnel applicants can be kept up right now, especially since the next countries to be "liberated" are already selected. There's no way Bush can fight another 2 wars and keep anyone out of the military, no matter if he favors men, women, or pieces of fruitcake. As long as he doesn't institute a draft, it's fine.

"Gays in the military . . . here's how I feel about it, alright? Anyone . . . DUMB enough . . . to want to be in the military, should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement."

Bill Hicks

I gotta tell ya, this one buggs the hell outa me. The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out. If the people would rather have themselves defended by gays, fine. This is one of the last remainders of mans world and I am horrifed that it may be gone

I think gays should be COMPLETELY eliminated from the military and we must do everything in our power to FIND and STOP them!!!!



(hopefully then it'll be easier for me to get out of being drafted :p )

I gotta tell ya, this one buggs the hell outa me. The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out. If the people would rather have themselves defended by gays, fine. This is one of the last remainders of mans world and I am horrifed that it may be gone
Do you hear that sound? Its the sound of the world's smallest violin.

I think it makes no difference at all. The military is about fighting, and being gay or straight has nothing to do with it at all.

I gotta tell ya, this one buggs the hell outa me. The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out. If the people would rather have themselves defended by gays, fine. This is one of the last remainders of mans world and I am horrifed that it may be gone
Er....there are women in the military. Just in case you hadnt noticed.

Dosent really bother me much... All I know is that if im in the middle of a battlefield and being shot at, I wont really care whose next to me, as long as they know how to shoot and are brave enough to watch my back

Er....there are women in the military. Just in case you hadnt noticed.
Never said I cared for that either. Sides women in the military are mostly like broken door hingers. the make noise when they are made to move , get in the way of moving forward and better off replaced

I gotta tell ya, this one buggs the hell outa me. The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out. If the people would rather have themselves defended by gays, fine. This is one of the last remainders of mans world and I am horrifed that it may be gone

What makes it your military rather than their military?

Do you hear that sound? its the sound of the world's smallest violin.
What the hell does that mean anyways?

I think gays should be COMPLETELY eliminated from the military and we must do everything in our power to FIND and STOP them!!!!



(hopefully then it'll be easier for me to get out of being drafted :p )

Well that makes no sense whatsoever. Logically speaking, in a draft situation, if gays weren't allowed in, then there would be less military personel overall and more spots would need filling, thus increasing your chances of getting picked. Also, Why do you care if there are gays in the military? Would you rather be murdered in your bed by a terorist than saved by a gay? :fluffle:

What the hell does that mean anyways?
Its the equivalent of cry me a river.

Never said I cared for that either. Sides women in the military are mostly like broken door hingers. the make noise when they are made to move , get in the way of moving forward and better off replaced
So, really, the members of the army should all be white male straight christians?

Well that makes no sense whatsoever. Logically speaking, in a draft situation, if gays weren't allowed in, then there would be less military personel overall and more spots would need filling, thus increasing your chances of getting picked. Also, Why do you care if there are gays in the military? Would you rather be murdered in your bed by a terorist than saved by a gay? :fluffle:
I think he's saying that he's gay, thus would be undraftable.

Even Barry Goldwater said it only matters if they shoot straight.

What makes it your military rather than their military?
Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy

The day they are allowed into my military is the day I get out.

I have some sad, bone-chilling news for you then ....


There are a lot of gays in the military.

Pfft, America can be such a backwards place. Gays in the military is an issue? You'd think the Spartans and Alexander the Great would have taught you something...

The subject has been mentioned in other threads, but I haven't seen it really discussed.

Currently, the United States is working under the infamous "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy, a compromise between Clinton, who had promised open allowance of gays in the military, and conservatives. Under this policy, while they can boot you out for being gay, your commanding officer can't ask or try to find out.

What is your position on gays in the military?
DADT has been an unmitigated disaster. Dismissals as a result of the policy has lead to a drastic shortage of Arabic translators necessary to translate intelligence that right now there is a week-long backlog for. Not only that, but the US military is facing a dearth of soldiers wishing to join up. Gay soldiers would provide a large number of additional troops.

Putting utilitarian questions aside, DADT is one of the primary examples of enshrined discrimination that exists in the American political sphere today. People are disallowed from performing a service to the country simply because those who control it have an aversion to their lifestyle. It's not the government's place to label certain people as "undesireables," which is functionally what DADT does.

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy
"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun."

So, really, the members of the army should all be white male straight christians?

Well it would thin out the herd a bit. :D

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy
"This is my rifle, this is my gun!"

"This is for fighting, this is for fun!"

Pfft, America can be such a backwards place. Gays in the military is an issue? You'd think the Spartans and Alexander the Great would have taught you something...

We're Americans ... we are incapable of learning from history.

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy

Unless I'm very much mistaken homosexuals pay an equal tax rate to heterosexuals, and so they are funding 'your' rifle, 'your' trash can and 'your' corps as much per capita as anyone else, no?

"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun."
Damn it. You had to beat me.

Unless I'm very much mistaken homosexuals pay an equal tax rate to heterosexuals, and so they are funding 'your' rifle, 'your' trash can and 'your' corps as much per capita as anyone else, no?
Don't gays tend to be better educated as a whole, and thus earn more money (and get taxed more)?

So wouldn't they be paying more per capita then everyone else?

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps.

Oh ... Semper Fi, First to Die!

You have any idea how many of "your" corp's messes we Rangers had to clean up? Buncha spotty faced gimps the lot of you.

Unless I'm very much mistaken homosexuals pay an equal tax rate to heterosexuals, and so they are funding 'your' rifle, 'your' trash can and 'your' corps as much per capita as anyone else, no?



Unfortunatly yes. They are still allowed in public so there is no avoiding that aspect. However, criminals released from prison and working an honest job also pay for the military and they arent allowed in either. So are the "handy-capable". what next, lets let those in wheelchairs join? Hey they can fire a gun!

I kinda feel left out since im not in the army or any military or anything, But wount you guys rather be standing next to a gay person, than stand alone?

Unfortunatly yes. They are still allowed in public so there is no avoiding that aspect. However, criminals released from prison and working an honest job also pay for the military and they arent allowed in either. So are the "handy-capable". what next, lets let those in wheelchairs join? Hey they can fire a gun!
ah the trusty slippery slope argument


we cant let gays in the army! whats next? people marrying dogs?


or did i get two arguments crossed over there? meh, who cares, its all the same anyway.

Oh ... Semper Fi, First to Die!

You have any idea how many of "your" corp's messes we Rangers had to clean up? Buncha spotty faced gimps the lot of you.

Lets branch bash later-I'm in the middle of gay bashing right now! Sides, Marines say the same thing about you guys!

Unfortunatly yes. They are still allowed in public so there is no avoiding that aspect. However, criminals released from prison and working an honest job also pay for the military and they arent allowed in either. So are the "handy-capable". what next, lets let those in wheelchairs join? Hey they can fire a gun!
Not a logical comparison. Gays have done unfair towards their neighbors; unlike, say, a murderer or someone convicted of identity theft. Gays simply want to be able to live their lives like every other American.

Wheelchairs couldn't be particularly mobile in combat zones. Gays have legs like everyone else.

Where does your "unfortunate" bigotry come from?

Unfortunatly yes. They are still allowed in public so there is no avoiding that aspect.

Tsk, tsk, honey. You are such a poor troll. This queen's cookie you shall not have.

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy

This guy must be gay.

Gays are arguing for stupid stuff these days... Marriage? Military service? Whatever happened to dancing all night all coked up followed by week long orgies? Being gay sure has turned lame.

Renshahi
Rakenshi

I smell something afoot.

So are the "handy-capable". what next, lets let those in wheelchairs join? Hey they can fire a gun!

Does somebody want to mention Roosevelt here?

This guy must be gay.
"Only two things come from Texas. Steers and queers."

Renshahi
Rakenshi

I smell something afoot.

Well i got Rakenshi from a Demon in a video game, I dont know who renshahi is though

Well i got Rakenshi from a Demon in a video game, I dont know who renshahi is though
I just thought the names sounded similar. That's all.

I really don't thin homosexuals should be allowed into the military for a simple reason - they like men and are willing to :fluffle: with them. Let's say you are a straight soldier (without a pathetically large ego) and you are changing in front of many other men. Its probably not embarrassing because, well, they are men too and are not going to care about or stare at another man's naked body. But let's say there is a homosexual there...would it not be more embarrassing and uncomfortable? That is one of the very basic reasons. I mean, at the risk of sounding offensive, gay men in the army may as well be women (no matter how masculine they are).

Gays are arguing for stupid stuff these days... Marriage? Military service? Whatever happened to dancing all night all coked up followed by week long orgies? Being gay sure has turned lame.

When disco broke out from the over-ground in the early seventies all night dancing whilst coked up and suburban orgies were co-opted by the mainstream. Now, pretty much as ever, the homosexuals remain the trendsetters and the real avant-garde.

Gays are arguing for stupid stuff these days... Marriage? Military service? Whatever happened to dancing all night all coked up followed by week long orgies? Being gay sure has turned lame.

There's a time and place for everything. We still do the orgies and dance all night all coked up, but not on weekdays. While politics is in now, fucking never goes out of style.

"Only two things come from Texas. Steers and queers."
"I bet you could suck a golf ball through a garden hose."

"Only two things come from Texas. Steers and queers."
Naw Arizona. Its country lite

Same great readneck flavor
but with less BS then TX

I really don't thin homosexuals should be allowed into the military for a simple reason - they like men and are willing to :fluffle: with them.

Lesbians don't.*







* somewhat of a generalisation, but hey, it is troll-week on NS apparently.

Join the military and find out. Everything is mine. This is my rifle, this is my trash can this is my corps. Sides, we gave gays musicals and interior decorating to do, they should be plenty busy
Well excuse me Monsieuer Hotshit.

I really don't thin homosexuals should be allowed into the military for a simple reason - they like men and are willing to :fluffle: with them. Let's say you are a straight soldier (without a pathetically large ego) and you are changing in front of many other men. Its probably not embarrassing because, well, they are men too and are not going to care about or stare at another man's naked body. But let's say there is a homosexual there...would it not be more embarrassing and uncomfortable? That is one of the very basic reasons. I mean, at the risk of sounding offensive, gay men in the army may as well be women (no matter how masculine they are).
And women are allowed in the army. Lucky you for shooting your own argument in the foot.

hey, it is troll-week on NS apparently.
Don't feed them. Sometimes they get violent and then the trainers have to subdue them.

The anti-gays in the military lobby here seem to be ignoring the issue that it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT that any participation in hot steamy manlove renders you incapable of shooting straight for the rest of your life.

I really don't thin homosexuals should be allowed into the military for a simple reason - they like men and are willing to :fluffle: with them. Let's say you are a straight soldier (without a pathetically large ego) and you are changing in front of many other men. Its probably not embarrassing because, well, they are men too and are not going to care about or stare at another man's naked body. But let's say there is a homosexual there...would it not be more embarrassing and uncomfortable? That is one of the very basic reasons. I mean, at the risk of sounding offensive, gay men in the army may as well be women (no matter how masculine they are).

Women in the army often use the same facilities as men, and do indeed change and shower with them and all of that intimate stuff.

Contrary to whatever you may believe, if you've ever been to a public shower, someone gay has seen you. Did you notice? Probably not, because our dicks don't get hard over ugly, straight people.

We're Americans ... we are incapable of learning from history.


HAHAHA HOW TRUE HOW TRUE

America: :headbang:

Don't feed them.

Ach, but it is fun seeing them explode as a result of their own gluttony.

Gays can be in the military, as long as they don't love someone in the military. But this goes with males and females too.

The anti-gays in the military lobby here seem to be ignoring the issue that it is a SCIENTIFIC FACT that any participation in hot steamy manlove renders you incapable of shooting straight for the rest of your life.
*Hoping its irony*

Gays can be in the military, as long as they don't love someone in the military. But this goes with males and females too.

There are many couples who work in the military.

Omg just ignored the 16 yeard old.. The hell do I have to do, run around naked?

*takes of clothes and starts running around*

Ach, but it is fun seeing them explode as a result of their own gluttony.
Touche, salesman.

Gay soldiers would provide a large number of additional troops.


no they wouldn't. gays are a tiny segment of the population and i'm guessing most of them that join the military are doing it to make some sort of "statment".

And women are allowed in the army. Lucky you for shooting your own argument in the foot.


And Every woman I have ever served with, except one have always proved to be a waste of uniform. Last one up a hill, last one in from a run and always bitchin. Trust me, when a new woman comes into a unit, the first word passed is "none of you guys F#45 her! We dont need another problem!"

no they wouldn't. gays are a tiny segment of the population and i'm guessing most of them that join the military are doing it to make some sort of "statment".

Your guess is pure BS.

no they wouldn't. gays are a tiny segment of the population and i'm guessing most of them that join the military are doing it to make some sort of "statment".
10% isn't tiny kid.

no they wouldn't. gays are a tiny segment of the population and i'm guessing most of them that join the military are doing it to make some sort of "statment".
Actually, aproximately one ninth or 11 percent of America's 300-odd million people are homosexual. That's over 15 million gay men. It may be a percentage minority, but 15 million people is a very big number. And also, so what if they join to make a "statement", so long as they serve the military well, who cares why they joined?

no they wouldn't. gays are a tiny segment of the population and i'm guessing most of them that join the military are doing it to make some sort of "statment".
Do the math.

10% of the population are homosexual. That's 28 million Americans. Say roughly 7 million are service-age. If only 1% of that 7 million join, that's an extra 70,000 troops in the US military. Sure could use that many more soldiers in Iraq.

Trust me, when a new woman comes into a unit, the first word passed is "none of you guys F#45 her! We dont need another problem!"

Two questions:

1. How do you 'F#45' someone?
2. Are you also told not to fuck her?

There are many couples who work in the military.


Its generally frowned upon. Usually they don't work for the same unit.

Do the math.

10% of the population are homosexual. That's 28 million Americans. Say roughly 7 million are service-age. If only 1% of that 7 million join, that's an extra 70,000 troops in the US military. Sure could use that many more soldiers in Iraq.
That oft quoted number is based on flawed methodology. For males it is much lower.

And Every woman I have ever served with, except one have always proved to be a waste of uniform. Last one up a hill, last one in from a run and always bitchin. Trust me, when a new woman comes into a unit, the first word passed is "none of you guys F#45 her! We dont need another problem!"
Dude, you need to watch more Stargate. Military women kick ass in combat.

Sure could use that many more soldiers in Iraq.

Given the choice I would much rather have zero American soldiers in Iraq, regardless of who they shag.

Lets branch bash later-I'm in the middle of gay bashing right now! Sides, Marines say the same thing about you guys!

But branch bashing is way more fun. Besides, when you bash gays, you're probably bashing your CO, jarhead. :p

Ok enough.. You guys want to talk about gays in the army? Just check the navy. Being stuck on a boat brings lots of them to turn gay for a night, I mean come on They even make you leave the ship with a condom...

Its generally frowned upon.

That's not the impression I get from the people I know in the US military. If it is, then it's silly.

Usually they don't work for the same unit.

Two gay soldiers could have the same arrangement. A lot probably already do.

That oft quoted number is based on flawed methodology. For males it is much lower.
I think you're wrong on this one, considering that many homosexuals as of yet still not sure would write heterosexual on the survey.

That oft quoted number is based on flawed methodology. For males it is much lower.
It's lower for females. It's actually higher for males.

Given the choice I would much rather have zero American soldiers in Iraq, regardless of who they shag.
Different discussion. I assumed our antagonist wanted the US to succeed in Iraq.

Ok enough.. You guys want to talk about gays in the army? Just check the navy. Being stuck on a boat brings lots of them to turn gay for a night, I mean come on They even make you leave the ship with a condom...

What's the big difference between being stuck on a boat with someone and sharing a slit-trench with them?

I was in the military (but I'm German, so I was in the German Bundeswehr). It sucked, not because it's military but because it's so stupid being a soldier. I figured out during basic training that being a soldier is the last thing I want to do. Being gay helped me get out, thank god :p Besides that, I have to admit that a few of the guys in my "unit" were quite good looking. But straight as arrows *grmbl*

Dude, you need to watch more Stargate. Military women kick ass in combat.
Dude, you need separate the difference between TV and reality.

Seriously, you do.

That's not the impression I get from the people I know in the US military. If it is, then it's silly.



Two gay soldiers could have the same arrangement. A lot probably already do.


Thats part of the problem. The last thing we need is two men having a lovers spat in the middle of Iraq.

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.

participation in hot steamy manlove

This is all I saw in that message.

What's the big difference between being stuck on a boat with someone and sharing a slit-trench with them?
I believe that's the point.

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.
And that's different from normal hetero relationships in the army how?

What's the big difference between being stuck on a boat with someone and sharing a slit-trench with them?

Huge difference. In a trench your under fire, Dosent give you enough time to think about that, not to forget that your not gonna have sex in a mud forsaken hellhole... Unless your extremly kinky

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.
no...because you seem to be missing one important fact - gay people are human too.

Dude, you need separate the difference between TV and reality.

Seriously, you do.
It's called a sense of humor. Get one, they're grrreeeaat! (Probably missed that last joke too).

Thats part of the problem. The last thing we need is two men having a lovers spat in the middle of Iraq.

What part of "different unit" did you not understand? Whatever you may believe, we are capable of being professional.

So, go away, troll.

Dude, you need to watch more Stargate. Military women kick ass in combat.
Agreed :) Women can be extremely tough soldiers. Now, I don't know how they act off the battle field, but who cares? Sure, there are women (as there are men) who aren't right for the military, but who is forcing them to join? Point is, well trained, disciplined women are an asset to any army. Many women are brilliant warriors.

As for gay people joining the army, I think its totally okay. Someone should be judged on how they fight and perform, not what their sexual orientation is etc. All of that is irrelevant. Judge a person for who they are, not what they are. Meaning, if a gay person is a good soldier, why should they be prohibited from joining? Such views are primitive and prejudiced, and usually are due to ignorance.

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.
Doesn't make sense. Only an incredibly callous person would leave an entire unit to die just because they had a fight with one person. That's no different than two hetero male friends having a huge fight over a girl back home who was one's girlfriend and the other's lover.

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.


Well, it's like this.

Straight man A likes straight woman B.
straight woman B breaks up with Straight man A, and now straight man A hates straight woman B.

straight woman B's unit is under fire, getting owned, straight man may just leave her to die.

Look at that second quote, i've changed it to circumstances that are just a likely, but the government doesn't doing anything about men and women both being in the militay does it?

Well, it's like this.

Gay guy A likes gay guy B.
Gay guy B breaks up with gay guy A, and now gay guy A hates gay guy B.

Gay guy B's unit is under fire, getting owned, gay guy A may just leave him to die.

Ermmmm ... not in a properly trained military. Gay or Straight, the training is there. I absolutely guarantee you that there are gay men and women in the military and your scenario has never been an issue.

I stood side by side and fought with people whom in civilian life I would punch in the teeth with a baseball bat - including, but not limited to: gay bashers, racists, republicans, and antisemites. I did not "leave them to die" simply for not liking them.

I think you're wrong on this one, considering that many homosexuals as of yet still not sure would write heterosexual on the survey.
Eh you might be right, I took an intro to sociology class, where the teacher gave a lecture about how the original 10 percent figure was reached by researchers interviewing transients and hitch hikers asking if they have ever had a homosexual experience. The flaw was that these classes of people had a much higher percentage of people who have engaged in homosexual activities then the general population. But I am not an expert on sex issues. I live in lower manhattan where it seems like everyone is gay so I don't have a real good sense of what the percentage is for the average american town.

Huge difference. In a trench your under fire, Dosent give you enough time to think about that, not to forget that your not gonna have sex in a mud forsaken hellhole... Unless your extremly kinky

Are you claiming that every time an American soldier is in a trench he/she is under fire? Surely not. You also seem to be working under the illusion that the navy are never underfire, no?

As far as having sex in mud forsaken hellholes goes, can I suggest that you take a look at Georges Bataille's novel The Blue Of Noon if you have never seen the attraction of fucking like primal beasts caked in mud and soil?

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are gay.. they wont have a problem with you. Idont care how many ppl this would help in a draft or something.. and honestly, it doesnt matter b/c were not gonna have another draft again (most likely never again in the future of American history)- but thats anotehr issue. Women in teh military are fine because in most cases nowadays, guys wont have as many problems with a woman than the problems with an openly gay guy.

so in conclusion.. keep the openly gay guys out of the military (dont ask about gay women, cause thats another story altogehter)

Eh you might be right, I took an intro to sociology class, where the teacher gave a lecture about how the original 10 percent figure was reached by researchers interviewing transients and hitch hikers asking if they have ever had a homosexual experience. The flaw was that these classes of people had a much higher percentage of people who have engaged in homosexual activities then the general population. But I am not an expert on sex issues. I live in lower manhattan where it seems like everyone is gay so I don't have a real good sense of what the percentage is for the average american town.
I had heard it came from Alfred Kinsey's studies of human sexuality.

And that's different from normal hetero relationships in the army how?
Ummm women arent allowed in combat arms? Allright true, sometimes it happens (Cough Jesssica Lynch COugh). Look, personal shit always happens in the military. Combat ops or not. How bout this


Fruit 1 loves fruit 2
Fruit 2 gets hit and goes down
fruit 1 drops weapon to check on fruit 2 becaue he loves him
Other members in the unit now have to fight that much harder


Think it wont happen? See someone in a crisis any crisis with a loved one, their intrest will always go to them first

Well, thats just my stand on the military and gays.

Personally, I don't think females should be in the infantry. Or at least they shouldn't fight along side males. That should be self explanatory.

Huge difference. In a trench your under fire, Dosent give you enough time to think about that, not to forget that your not gonna have sex in a mud forsaken hellhole... Unless your extremly kinky

Trench? WWI vet? wow ... you must be ancient!

Do you hear that sound? Its the sound of the world's smallest violin.

well played. well played indeed.

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are gay.. they wont have a problem with you. Idont care how many ppl this would help in a draft or something.. and honestly, it doesnt matter b/c were not gonna have another draft again (most likely never again in the future of American history)- but thats anotehr issue. Women in teh military are fine because in most cases nowadays, guys wont have as many problems with a woman than the problems with an openly gay guy.

so in conclusion.. keep the openly gay guys out of the military (dont ask about gay women, cause thats another story altogehter)
Black man and a Ku Klux Klan member in the same unit. Not prohibited as it would be unconstitutional under anti-segregation precedent. Much more damaging to unit cohesion. Come again with better arguments.

if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. .

...snip...

so in conclusion.. keep the openly gay guys out of the military (dont ask about gay women, cause thats another story altogehter)

Is it just me or does this work equally well as an argument to allow homosexuals in the military, but instead to exclude homophobes?


Why are lesbians any different? Are you claiming that within the military there are no homophobic women?

Trench? WWI vet? wow ... you must be ancient!

Bah... I never thought trenches were used anymore.. He compared a Navy boat to a Trench, thats why I though they were still using them

Why do we even have to discuss this? Why does it matter if the people who are fighting for are coutry are gay? Most of the people who are against it, won't get of there butts and fight anyway. That just irritates me!

Fruit 1 loves fruit 2
Fruit 2 gets hit and goes down
fruit 1 drops weapon to check on fruit 2 becaue he loves him
Other members in the unit now have to fight that much harder


If the person you're fighting beside goes down, you will stop to check on them regardless of whether you're having butt sex with them or not. You will check them, call a medic, and make sure they're in a position of safety.

You sure you're a veteran?

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are gay.. they wont have a problem with you. Idont care how many ppl this would help in a draft or something.. and honestly, it doesnt matter b/c were not gonna have another draft again (most likely never again in the future of American history)- but thats anotehr issue. Women in teh military are fine because in most cases nowadays, guys wont have as many problems with a woman than the problems with an openly gay guy.

so in conclusion.. keep the openly gay guys out of the military (dont ask about gay women, cause thats another story altogehter)
So you discriminate against gays because some one could be a bigot, instead of dealing with the problem at its root (bigotry).

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are gay.. they wont have a problem with you.

But the military still recruits people who are openly racist, antisemmite, or just plain bastards, and people like that can compromise a unit's unity.

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly gay guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with gays, the straight soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are gay.. they wont have a problem with you. Idont care how many ppl this would help in a draft or something.. and honestly, it doesnt matter b/c were not gonna have another draft again (most likely never again in the future of American history)- but thats anotehr issue. Women in teh military are fine because in most cases nowadays, guys wont have as many problems with a woman than the problems with an openly gay guy.

so in conclusion.. keep the openly gay guys out of the military (dont ask about gay women, cause thats another story altogehter)

ok heres the deal... it doesnt matter if they want to get in or not.. the fact is, that the military is broken into units... each unit.. especially during a time of war acts as a "family". they must communicate with one anotehr, and not have problems with one another... if there is an openly Jewish guy in a unit, and someone else has a problem with Jews, the racist soldier will feel uncomfortable, there will obviously be a problem with the unity in the unit. THIS IS BAD!.. since unity is one of the keys to survival when you are on a mission. The dont ask dont tell policy is fine the way it is.. if no one knows you are Jewish.. they wont have a problem with you. Idont care how many ppl this would help in a draft or something.. and honestly, it doesnt matter b/c were not gonna have another draft again (most likely never again in the future of American history)- but thats anotehr issue. Catholics in teh military are fine because in most cases nowadays, guys wont have as many problems with a Catholic than the problems with an openly Jewish guy.

so in conclusion.. keep the openly Jewish guys out of the military (dont ask about black guys, cause thats another story altogehter)

Ummm women arent allowed in combat arms? Allright true, sometimes it happens (Cough Jesssica Lynch COugh). Look, personal shit always happens in the military. Combat ops or not. How bout this


Fruit 1 loves fruit 2
Fruit 2 gets hit and goes down
fruit 1 drops weapon to check on fruit 2 becaue he loves him
Other members in the unit now have to fight that much harder


Think it wont happen? See someone in a crisis any crisis with a loved one, their intrest will always go to them first
1 and 2 are best friends.
2 gets hit and goes down.
1 drops weapon to check on 2.

2 is married to 1's sister.
2 gets hit and goes down.
1 drops weapon to check on 2.

Just as plausible, currently legal.

Are you claiming that every time an American soldier is in a trench he/she is under fire? Surely not. You also seem to be working under the illusion that the navy are never underfire, no?

As far as having sex in mud forsaken hellholes goes, can I suggest that you take a look at Georges Bataille's novel The Blue Of Noon if you have never seen the attraction of fucking like primal beasts caked in mud and soil?

Are trenches even used anymore? Plus its preety obvious that being in a trench is much more dangerous than in a navy boat. If your in a trench, most likely your about to go under fire. And although its extremly sexy to see a girl covered in mud.. Theres just something about having sex in it that creeps me out

If the person you're fighting beside goes down, you will stop to check on them regardless of whether you're having butt sex with them or not. You will check them, call a medic, and make sure they're in a position of safety.

You sure you're a veteran?

As sure as I'm in Iraq right now. And yes you will check on someone and call corpsman or medic, but if you are romantically involved you will spend alot more time dealing with them then going back to your job

Black man and a Ku Klux Klan member in the same unit. Not prohibited as it would be unconstitutional under anti-segregation precedent. Much more damaging to unit cohesion. Come again with better arguments.


-where has there been a case of that ever happening?


Is it just me or does this work equally well as an argument to allow homosexuals in the military, but instead to exclude homophobes?

-nope.. being uncomfortable around a gay guy is natural... being gay is where the problem lies.

As sure as I'm in Iraq right now. And yes you will check on someone and call corpsman or medic, but if you are romantically involved you will spend alot more time dealing with them then going back to your job

Not if you're properly trained, you won't.

-nope.. being uncomfortable around a gay guy is natural...

Evidence for this assertion?

As sure as I'm in Iraq right now. And yes you will check on someone and call corpsman or medic, but if you are romantically involved you will spend alot more time dealing with them then going back to your job
Proof?

nope.. being uncomfortable around a gay guy is natural...

prove it

being gay is where the problem lies

prove it

-where has there been a case of that ever happening?




-nope.. being uncomfortable around a gay guy is natural... being gay is where the problem lies.

I'm much too lazy to do Lexis work right now, but my point was theoretical (and almost definately happened). You also have not provided a specific case to prove your general assertion.

That's the bigotry talking.

[QUOTE=And Under BOBBY]-
Quote about antijews and jews in the same unit causing loss of unity..
where has there been a case of that ever happening?QUOTE]

Correct question would be "where has there been a documented case of that ever happening?" It happens all the time, I assure you, but for most purposes, if it isn't recorded, it doesn't happen. And by the way..
where has there been a documented case of a gay making someone uncomfortable and losing unit cohesion ever happening?

-nope.. being uncomfortable around a gay guy is natural... being gay is where the problem lies.

You poor, homophobic person. You need a hug.

I'm much too lazy to do Lexis work right now, but my point was theoretical (and almost definately happened). You also have not provided a specific case to prove your general assertion.

That's the bigotry talking.
Wow you do lexisnexis research for nationstates debates??? You must be like the best debater ever!

Wow you do lexisnexis research for nationstates debates??? You must be like the best debater ever!
Haven't yet. It's just the first thing I think of when I think research.

Not if you're properly trained, you won't.
And if you are properly trained, you will not get your convoy lost. But if your convoy is loss, being properly trained, your weapon will be clean and ready to fire at all times. IF your weapon jams you will be properly trained and not cower in a corner while your teamates are killed and get captured by the enemy. OOOOOOO wait a minute....PFC Lynch...thats right, a whole convoy got wasted in an afternoon.... SHit happens, people make mistakes

And if you are properly trained, you will not get your convoy lost. But if your convoy is loss, being properly trained, your weapon will be clean and ready to fire at all times. IF your weapon jams you will be properly trained and not cower in a corner while your teamates are killed and get captured by the enemy. OOOOOOO wait a minute....PFC Lynch...thats right, a whole convoy got wasted in an afternoon.... SHit happens, people make mistakes
Whats that got to do with anything in this thread?

And if you are properly trained, you will not get your convoy lost. But if your convoy is loss, being properly trained, your weapon will be clean and ready to fire at all times. IF your weapon jams you will be properly trained and not cower in a corner while your teamates are killed and get captured by the enemy. OOOOOOO wait a minute....PFC Lynch...thats right, a whole convoy got wasted in an afternoon.... SHit happens, people make mistakes
The irrelevance/self-defeating nature of this post needs not be pointed out.

However, your point that anyone can screw up in any situation is well taken.

prove it

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.. being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)

And if you are properly trained, you will not get your convoy lost. But if your convoy is loss, being properly trained, your weapon will be clean and ready to fire at all times. IF your weapon jams you will be properly trained and not cower in a corner while your teamates are killed and get captured by the enemy. OOOOOOO wait a minute....PFC Lynch...thats right, a whole convoy got wasted in an afternoon.... SHit happens, people make mistakes
What he said. Can YOU claim that if someone you were romantically involved with went down in a battle, you wouldn't make sure they are okay in a greater amount of time than if it was the guy you don't really like who you just lost 50 bucks to in poker? If you can, you are not human, and it's being human that allows us to have all these wonderful gifts, like bigotry.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.. being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)
O.o.


No. Just no.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.. being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)
Firsthand evidence that's false. I'm convinced that my dog is a lesbian.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion..
What i meant was show me one occasion where it is undeniable that a person being gay has led directly to a military problem.

If you worry - give them a whole different division of their own. Don't be descriminatin'. The most feared divisions in WW2 were the Russian Women who would castrate those men they captured. Maybe not as scary - but why not gang rape? Yeah - sorry, not very tasteful... But I've seen some gay men who can handle themselves very well and some gay men who are nasty pieces of work. Just imagine the fear. 'Oooh, I don't want to be caught... They'll rape me!' Straight men - like those who don't want gay men in the army - would probably think along such illogical lines. Let them in the army - just give them different shower blocks or something if you're going to whine.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.

http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1999/03/cov_15featurea.html

being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)

Wow, you're just pulling this stuff out of your ass, aren't you? It's impressive how much it can stretch for all this BS to come out.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.. being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)
That makes absolutely no sense. If true homosexuality is a genetic disorder, then why wouldn't animals have it? And also, I challenge to you prove that no animal is or ever was homosexual.

And if you are properly trained, you will not get your convoy lost. But if your convoy is loss, being properly trained, your weapon will be clean and ready to fire at all times. IF your weapon jams you will be properly trained and not cower in a corner while your teamates are killed and get captured by the enemy. OOOOOOO wait a minute....PFC Lynch...thats right, a whole convoy got wasted in an afternoon.... SHit happens, people make mistakes

Is PFC Lynch a gay man?

being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)

Are you refering here to the 1993 Hamer study which has been repeated since then without being able to replicate the results?

You guys are taking this too far... Eather way its never gonna be solved. People will like gay people, hate them, or will want to just leave them alone. About them going to the army, its gonna happen. You guys might hate it but its how life is. As cultures grow people become more accepted to weird stuff, first it was African Americans, then Women, then Pornography, its obvious gays are next. So like it or not, get used to them cause their gonna be with us for the rest of our lives

Just because they dare to be different, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to fight for our country. It's rediculous that some of you people are actually saying that you want to eliminate some of the people that defend your country! If anyone's morally corrupt, it's you people for saying that shit! :sniper:

You guys are taking this too far... Eather way its never gonna be solved. People will like gay people, hate them, or will want to just leave them alone. About them going to the army, its gonna happen. You guys might hate it but its how life is. As cultures grow people become more accepted to weird stuff, first it was African Americans, then Women, then Pornography, its obvious gays are next. So like it or not, get used to them cause their gonna be with us for the rest of our lives
Although I know what you meant, I think it's funny to see women referred to as "weird stuff."

What is wrong with being homosexual? WHY is there any discrimination between homosexuals and non-homosexuals? And WHY do we INSIST on mangling a perfectly good word like 'gay' and turning it into an offensive name for a person SOME people consider to be bad?
Sorry, I can rant for hours about that, but personally, I also think that whoever is stupid enough to join the military, heck, they can join! Why not?
(Why is my favorite word)

You guys are taking this too far... Eather way its never gonna be solved. People will like gay people, hate them, or will want to just leave them alone. About them going to the army, its gonna happen. You guys might hate it but its how life is. As cultures grow people become more accepted to weird stuff, first it was African Americans, then Women, then Pornography, its obvious gays are next. So like it or not, get used to them cause their gonna be with us for the rest of our lives


True. Society changes. Spartans (yes I know they were gay alot of the time) were once a great warrior nation. They changed so much their culture was defeated by their own slaves. Romans also a world power that was changed so much (specially by christianity) that they too fell. Change is not always a good thing.

And women are allowed in the army. Lucky you for shooting your own argument in the foot.

women are also kept in seperate quarters and are sent to a seperate boot camp. maybe we should just keep all the gays isolated so they wont cause any problems because we all know they love to stir things up.

semper fi.

True. Society changes. Spartans (yes I know they were gay alot of the time) were once a great warrior nation. They changed so much their culture was defeated by their own slaves. Romans also a world power that was changed so much (specially by christianity) that they too fell. Change is not always a good thing.
And the times where one class of group was considered to be morally/physically inferior to another? That's right, slavery and the Holocaust! Change away from those two things, probably good.

You guys are taking this too far... Eather way its never gonna be solved. People will like gay people, hate them, or will want to just leave them alone. About them going to the army, its gonna happen. You guys might hate it but its how life is. As cultures grow people become more accepted to weird stuff, first it was African Americans, then Women, then Pornography, its obvious gays are next. So like it or not, get used to them cause their gonna be with us for the rest of our lives
Now what the flying fuck was that?! You implied that African Americans, women, and porn are weird? Well, if thats what you think then I won't stop you. Its your right.
*implodes*

And WHY do we INSIST on mangling a perfectly good word like 'gay' and turning it into an offensive name for a person SOME people consider to be bad?

Huh? The word 'gay' in this context has its origins as a code word amongst homosexuals to describe themselves. There has been no 'mangling'.

True. Society changes. Spartans (yes I know they were gay alot of the time) were once a great warrior nation. They changed so much their culture was defeated by their own slaves. Romans also a world power that was changed so much (specially by christianity) that they too fell. Change is not always a good thing.
If the US has a run anywhere near as long as the Roman's (especially the eastern bit), we're golden.

Now what the flying fuck was that?! You implied that African Americans, women, and porn are weird? Well, if thats what you think then I won't stop you. Its your right.
*implodes*

When is porn going to be allowed in the military?

Now what the flying fuck was that?! You implied that African Americans, women, and porn are weird? Well, if thats what you think then I won't stop you. Its your right.
*implodes*
He means strange for the military.

Women are allowed in, but it's strictly non-combat. Support personnel, not infantry.

As for the gay thing, I think the Don't ask Don't tell policy is the best. If you're gay, fine, sign up. Don't make a big deal of it. We won't ask you about it and we don't want you to bother us with it.
Win-Win, if you ask me.

He means strange for the military.

Porn strange for the military? I doubt it.

Porn strange for the military? I doubt it.
Strange b/c there was that huge flap over it a few years back.

And the times where one class of group was considered to be morally/physically inferior to another? That's right, slavery and the Holocaust! Change away from those two things, probably good.

If the Nazi's had won, they wouldnt have been seen to be as Evil as they are now(no I dont support them) YOu have a point, change can be good. However in this case it is bad.

I think being gay can be a genetic benefit to humanity. It would help cut back on overpopulation and not being overpopulated means humanity will survive in the future. I see no problem with gays (or lesbians) being in the millitary. All people should be given the right to fight for their country if they so choose. The only problems involved is the bigots in the millitary who harrasse gays and lesbians who sign up.

He means strange for the military.
I still don't see hwo that is strange, unless you view it from a different historical perspective.

BWO, porn is in the military...wouldn't you need some sort of enjoyment?

If the Nazi's had won, they wouldnt have been seen to be as Evil as they are now(no I dont support them) YOu have a point, change can be good. However in this case it is bad.
Dodged the analogy. DADT is an example of how gays are second-class citizens in American society. My argument was that being able to classify human lives as valuable or not valuable is bad - it was the only logic that could lead to the Holocaust or slavery. This is a reason why change in this context is good.

Now what the flying fuck was that?! You implied that African Americans, women, and porn are weird? Well, if thats what you think then I won't stop you. Its your right.
*implodes*

Since it seems to confuse you ill write it better...

African Americans- They were considered nothing more than items, slaves were considered 3/5 of a person, most of them were mainly considered items such as beds, or houses, preety much property. During that time it was absurd for the idea of them voting, now their treated as equal by MOST PEOPLE.

Women- Although considered human, they were considered Inferrior to men. During the middle ages, a single woman was preety much left to the streets, they could not hold land or any items. During WW1, and WW2 most women had to take over mens job considering most of them were fighting the war. It showed that women were equal as men, yet they had to go back to their kitchens. It was during the 1960's that the civil rights movement sparked Feminism, which preety much brought to the equality between men and women(which is ironic considering theres so much sexism flying around)

Pornography- Come on... Do I really have to explain this? You guys saw the 20's-60's, A showing of ankles would consider you immoral. Now look at us, they even have books on positions.

So as you can see, Gay to us is preety much African American to Civil War america... They might not have liked it, but it still happened

I still don't see hwo that is strange, unless you view it from a different historical perspective.

BWO, porn is in the military...wouldn't you need some sort of enjoyment?
See above.

I agree with the second line wholeheartedly.

its not something that can be proven... its a persons opinion.. and about being gay.. look anywhere in nature where being gay is helpful... no animals are gay... this was on teh discovery.. being truly gay is like a genetic disorder... the the abnormal deletion of a locus on the X chromosome = thats the problem.. while everyone else is normal (sexually speaking at least)

there are over three hundred species whose members have been recorded engaging in homosexual activity.

try again.

"Gays in the military . . . here's how I feel about it, alright? Anyone . . . DUMB enough . . . to want to be in the military, should be allowed in. End of fucking story. That should be the only requirement."

Bill Hicks
what the hell is your problem. Beign in the military is an honor dillhole. Without us you'd be screwed. I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out. The only reason Clintion was going to let them in was cause hes one of em. :sniper:

Pornography- Come on... Do I really have to explain this? You guys saw the 20's-60's, A showing of ankles would consider you immoral. Now look at us, they even have books on positions.


Strange time period you chose there: the jazz age to the permissive sixties. Have you ever seen a picture of a Flapper girl? Maybe you got confused by the lyrics to Cole Porter's Anything Goes (1934)?

"Only two things come from Texas. Steers and queers."
That joke is lamer than FDR's legs.

I think gays should be allowed in (and as far as I know, the Canadian Forces don't care) same with everyone else willing to enlist, provided they're of age.

Dodged the analogy. DADT is an example of how gays are second-class citizens in American society. My argument was that being able to classify human lives as valuable or not valuable is bad - it was the only logic that could lead to the Holocaust or slavery. This is a reason why change in this context is good.


I agress gays are 2nd class. My argument is that they should stay that way. And as for human lives being valuable, value is in the eye of the beholder. I would risk my neck for an American (even a gay one) before I even lift a finger for a non American

what the hell is your problem. Beign in the military is an honor dillhole. Without us you'd be screwed. I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out. The only reason Clintion was going to let them in was cause hes one of em. :sniper:
Hate to tell you but, THERE ARE GAYS IN THE MILITARY. So long as they stay in their own bunks, and don't let you get shot in the field, why the hell does it matter that they are gay?

f they allow them in I'm out.

News for you: they are allowed in the military.

So when are you quitting?

what the hell is your problem. Beign in the military is an honor dillhole. Without us you'd be screwed. I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out. The only reason Clintion was going to let them in was cause hes one of em. :sniper:

Hooh doggy. New troll.

They're already allowed in, dip****. The only question is if they can be open about it. See the rest of the discussion for reasons why your position is untenable.

No self-respecting gay man would be caught in the Oval Office with a woman, let alone Monica Lewinski.

what the hell is your problem. Beign in the military is an honor dillhole. Without us you'd be screwed. I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out. The only reason Clintion was going to let them in was cause hes one of em. :sniper:
Quit then.

I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out.

Good riddence, probably.

I would risk my neck for an American (even a gay one) before I even lift a finger for a non American

What gives Americans a greater value than non-Americans?

Hooh doggy. New troll.

They're already allowed in, dip****. The only question is if they can be open about it. See the rest of the discussion for reasons why your position is untenable.

No self-respecting gay man would be caught in the Oval Office with a woman, let alone Monica Lewinski.


Funny I thought the whole thing about being gays was a lack of self-respect.

there are over three hundred species whose members have been recorded engaging in homosexual activity.

try again.

Question: does engaging in homosexual activity make you a homosexual?

dare to be different my ass. They need to gather them all up and fucking launch them into fuckign space or sum shit. Get rid of em. Nobody here wants them. Or if nasa dont wanna waste the money i'll do it my self. :sniper:
And get arrested for murder.

*hint* I could get you arrested for that comment. Lay off. You're aiming for a ban.

I agress gays are 2nd class. My argument is that they should stay that way. And as for human lives being valuable, value is in the eye of the beholder. I would risk my neck for an American (even a gay one) before I even lift a finger for a non American
Again, you miss the point. When the government can say "Oh, you, you're not as good as everyone else in this country. You're a threat to our nation's moral and sexual purity," history would tell us that institutions like slavery and events like the Holocaust crop up becuase of a desire to eliminate the undesireables. Your logic gives the government the power to mobilize mass slaughter. I say your methodology is bad.

What gives Americans a greater value than non-Americans?

umm because they are MY country men. I see four type of people. Americans
Allies who work along side us
enemies
future enemies

what the hell is your problem. Beign in the military is an honor dillhole. Without us you'd be screwed. I dont want no gay guy sleepign in the bunk above me. Thats bull****. If they allow them in I'm out. The only reason Clintion was going to let them in was cause hes one of em. :sniper:


exactly!!

being gay is not being normal, end of story... and stop bringing up the idea of a black man and a ku klux klan guy together... society would favor the black man b/c they are now accepted in american society as equals.. 80 years ago, i dont think that would have been the case... right now a majority of the people in the country dont agree with gay people...deal with it for another 50 years.. then it will be ok to have the whole military full of fruitcakes and fudgepackers.

Question: does engaging in homosexual activity make you a homosexual?
Not unless we've come up with a new definition for the word that I'm not aware of.

Renshahi, your comment on risking your life for an American before lifting a finger for a non-american is pretty brutal. What makes the American so special? Myself (a member of the Canadian Forces) would be willing to risk my life for anyone, Canadian, American, nationality, ethnicity, religion, none of it makes a difference...they're all human, they're all our brothers and sisters.

Funny I thought the whole thing about being gays was a lack of self-respect.
Definately not true. Have you ever interacted with a homosexual????

Its preety funny.... Theres already Homosexuals in the army, their not open about it but there is... So there wount be a big difference if they allowed OPEN gay people inside the army.. itll just be the same, plus I doubt feminist homosexuals would join something like the army, most of them would be masculine so they wount really be a big difference if their open about it or not

Funny I thought the whole thing about being gays was a lack of self-respect.

I respect myself plenty.

exactly!!

being gay is not being normal, end of story... and stop bringing up the idea of a black man and a ku klux klan guy together... society would favor the black man b/c they are now accepted in american society as equals.. 80 years ago, i dont think that would have been the case... right now a majority of the people in the country dont agree with gay people...deal with it for another 50 years.. then it will be ok to have the whole military full of fruitcakes and fudgepackers.
Why do you hate freedom so much? The terrorists hate freedom.

I'm reminded of a line I heard in U-571

"This Isn't a goddamn democracy, this is the navy!"
something like that anyway.

The military is selective so it can be cohesive.
they don't allow much "diversity" in haircuts and clothes do they?
and I expect if you exercised "free speech" to mouth off to a superior they wouldn't "tolerate" it very well.

I respect myself plenty.
Then why do you let another man do that to you?

Then why do you let another man do that to you?
Why let another woman do that to you?

Then why do you let another man do that to you?
I've heard two things:

a) It's actually fun.

b) People reciprocate.

Sure we should let them in, but they're the first line of defense! Think about it, most of the gays die, and some of the enemy die with them. Also I think that we should seperate the gays' barracks, and the straight people's barracks, to prevent outbreaks and possible *ahem* homosexual harassment.

exactly!!

being gay is not being normal, end of story...


Again with this assertion: homosexuality has been with us as long as recorded history and we can see homosexual activity in other creatures, so what evidence do you hgave to claim that it is unnatural?

Then why do you let another man do that to you?

Do what to me? Caress me? Love me? Kiss me? Fuck me? Make me come like no woman will ever even be able to dream of making someone come?

Because I love it.

I agress gays are 2nd class. My argument is that they should stay that way. And as for human lives being valuable, value is in the eye of the beholder. I would risk my neck for an American (even a gay one) before I even lift a finger for a non American
I love you.

The subject has been mentioned in other threads, but I haven't seen it really discussed.

Currently, the United States is working under the infamous "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy, a compromise between Clinton, who had promised open allowance of gays in the military, and conservatives. Under this policy, while they can boot you out for being gay, your commanding officer can't ask or try to find out.

What is your position on gays in the military?
I have absolutely no objections whatsoever! If anyone, male, female, gay, lesbian, transgenger, or what...EVER, wants to serve, more power to 'em! :)

Sure we should let them in, but they're the first line of defense! Think about it, most of the jews die, and some of the terrorists die with them. Also I think that we should seperate the jew barracks, and the aryan barracks, to prevent outbreaks and possible *ahem* jew harassment.

Note the changes.

Does anybody here RESPECT homosexuals? I kinda do, their preety much put through hell. I mean publicity, sexism, close minded retards... I mean these peoples lives cant be easy, considering most of them live as outcasts

Hooo boy,

this thread is one of the funniest I've read in a long time.

Makes me rather happy not to be in a crazy nation where blasting portions of the population into space and treating people as second class citizens is an opinion led by many.

Besides, who wants a military with guns and stuff? I personally think every member of the military should be replaced with a ninja. Ninjas rock.

Well, off to put on black pajamas and sneak around, because ninjas do things like that, and ninja's rock.

Heh.. if that happened, we would then have issues with gay ninjas.

Why do you hate freedom so much? The terrorists hate freedom.

dont give me that bullshit... your the same person that says: if we dont go on planes the terrorists win, if we dont buy that new lexus, the terrorists win... theres a thick line between terrorism and the majority of feelings in america... i believe if u want to be gay in the army.. u follow the rules and keep it to yourself... why wud anyone want to be open.. its not like ur looking for a boyfriend @ a gay bar.. its the army for godsakes... no one needs to know.. and trust me.. no one wants to know.

Does anybody here RESPECT homosexuals? I kinda do, their preety much put through hell. I mean publicity, sexism, close minded retards... I mean these peoples lives cant be easy, considering most of them live as outcasts

Quit living in the dark ages. My life is not at all like that. Some of us are lucky to live in better societies.

Just because they dare to be different, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to fight for our country. It's rediculous that some of you people are actually saying that you want to eliminate some of the people that defend your country! If anyone's morally corrupt, it's you people for saying that shit! :sniper:

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're white, middle class, most likely female, live in the suburbs, vote democrat, and belong to a book club.

and/or

are gay.

I have nothing against anyone joining the Military or any other branch of the Armed Forces.

Gays, Straights, Blacks, Whites, Females, Males, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc.

Seriously, when the hell will you all fucking realize that the real thing that makes the world weak is using these bs biased things. " Gays shouldn't be allowed to join the Military, they'll touch me. " Yea...okay that is stupid as hell.

My say also is, were all fucking human. Come on...and whoever it said what I am about to say, I agree with him ( and I edited it a bit lol ): " Gay or straight, as long as the person has got a fucking back bone and will follow his orders like the brave soldier he is trying to say he is, then I'm cool with it. But if he is not willing to fight or protect my back or our fellow soldier's backs, then kick HIM out of the Armed Forces. "

I think it is really idiotic to base the world on skin color, beliefes, sexual profile, gender, etc.

" Heh, Bob...look at them, there eyeballs are big. Yea lets ban them from the Armed Forces ."

"there are over three hundred species whose members have been recorded engaging in homosexual activity."

yes, and a lot of animals kill and/or eat thier own kind too, so should we do that? I think not

Again with this assertion: homosexuality has been with us as long as recorded history and we can see homosexual activity in other creatures, so what evidence do you hgave to claim that it is unnatural?
cause ppl are fucked up. it hasent been here as long as recorede history. God didnt make Adam gay onr Eve a lesbian. I just plain sin. And it started becasue ppl wanted to be difyant to God

dont give me that bullshit... your the same person that says: if we dont go on planes the terrorists win, if we dont buy that new lexus, the terrorists win... theres a thick line between terrorism and the majority of feelings in america... i believe if u want to be gay in the army.. u follow the rules and keep it to yourself... why wud anyone want to be open.. its not like ur looking for a boyfriend @ a gay bar.. its the army for godsakes... no one needs to know.. and trust me.. no one wants to know.
Then why be an open heterosexual? Its not like you're looking for a good fuck.

Pornography- Come on... Do I really have to explain this? You guys saw the 20's-60's, A showing of ankles would consider you immoral. Now look at us, they even have books on positions.

ever heard of the roaring twenties?

i'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're white, middle class, most likely female, live in the suburbs, vote democrat, and belong to a book club.

and/or

are gay.

And before you criticise me, I'm white, good enough class, male, live in a urbanized city, and vote Republican, and belong in a group of highschoolers working there asses off so they are prepared for the Military.

Oh and,

Straight.

cause ppl are fucked up. it hasent been here as long as recorede history. God didnt make Adam gay onr Eve a lesbian. I just plain sin. And it started becasue ppl wanted to be difyant to God

God doesn't exist, silly!

Question: does engaging in homosexual activity make you a homosexual?

unless you also engage in heterosexual activity, yes.

Quit living in the dark ages. My life is not at all like that. Some of us are lucky to live in better societies.

I live in Miami.. And dude it is the Dark ages down here. If your openly gay down here, your preety much gonna be an outcast for your whole life. And unless this upcoming generation dosent grow up, you might find yourself being kicked out of your job for being Homosexual..

cause ppl are fucked up. it hasent been here as long as recorede history. God didnt make Adam gay onr Eve a lesbian. I just plain sin. And it started becasue ppl wanted to be difyant to God
Here it is in proper grammar:

Because people are fucked up. It hasn't been here as long as recorded history. God didn't make Adam gay or Eve a lesbian. It is pure sin and it started because people wanted to defy God.

Then why be an open heterosexual? Its not like you're looking for a good fuck.

in the army no one goes around saying "hey guys, how you doing today, im heterosexual".. when ur heterosexual.. theres nothing open or closed about it.. which is part of the reasaon that its normal... im not saying unnatural, im saying normal

dont give me that bullshit... your the same person that says: if we dont go on planes the terrorists win, if we dont buy that new lexus, the terrorists win... theres a thick line between terrorism and the majority of feelings in america... i believe if u want to be gay in the army.. u follow the rules and keep it to yourself... why wud anyone want to be open.. its not like ur looking for a boyfriend @ a gay bar.. its the army for godsakes... no one needs to know.. and trust me.. no one wants to know.
No, no. What I was using is called "irony." It's desigend to point out flaws in certain modes of thinking. The line about terrorists hating freedom is internally contradictory as long as we discriminate against people in our own country.

The rest of this post is incoherent. I would say that most people do want to know, however.

God doesn't exist, silly!
Then how do you explain everythign around you. Not that big bang crap. Thats like saying if a tornado went through a junk yard it would asemble a perfect boing 747

And before you criticise me, I'm white, good enough class, male, live in a urbanized city, and vote Republican, and belong in a group of highschoolers working there asses off so they are prepared for the Military.

Oh and,

Straight.
"there asses"?

God doesn't exist, silly!
Silence infidel!

Then why do you let another man do that to you?

Do what and are there pictures?

I live in Miami.. And dude it is the Dark ages down here. If your openly gay down here, your preety much gonna be an outcast for your whole life. And unless this upcoming generation dosent grow up, you might find yourself being kicked out of your job for being Homosexual..

Yeah, well, the US and Florida ain't exactly the peak of civilization.

10% isn't tiny kid.

omg..

heads up, Kinsey's word isn't the gospel. i don't know about the rest of the world but here in Canada the percent of ANY homosexuals (bi, transgender etc.) is under 2% and full blown homos are under 1%.

Then how do you explain everythign around you. Not that big bang crap. Thats like saying if a tornado went through a junk yard it would asemble a perfect boing 747
What the hell is a boing 747?

(take a look at some of the evolution threads. That's been answered here millions of times)

Here it is in proper grammar:

Because people are fucked up. It hasn't been here as long as recorded history. God didn't make Adam gay or Eve a lesbian. It is pure sin and it started because people wanted to defy God.

If you want to throw it into religious terms:

Yea I don't support homosexuality. Fine I may be somewhat homophobic. But I don't think God made it our duty to treat Gays like shit for being Gay. God wheeps for all his sinning children, I'm sure he cries a lot for those who chose the homosexual life style. But I am not about to start treating someone like a worthless hound for there beliefe or choices.

"Do what to me? Caress me? Love me? Kiss me? Fuck me? Make me come like no woman will ever even be able to dream of making someone come?

Because I love it."

please shut up. your making me ill

if you can fight, you can pick up a gun and shoot another human being then you should be allowed to fight, i have a hard time believeing a gay guy whos say, a haridresser could kill someone but if he can and he does it better than a strait man, let him in. Even though my religion says homosexuality is an abomination, i also have to face the fact they are human and live in the same country i do.

Do what and are there pictures?

Yes, there are. But I only show them to school children during my recruitment run.

I just plain sin.

Someone explain this to me.

God doesn't exist, silly!
I agree with you, but that's getting really close to trolling.... not that half this board isn't.....

in the army no one goes around saying "hey guys, how you doing today, im heterosexual".. when ur heterosexual.. theres nothing open or closed about it.. which is part of the reasaon that its normal... im not saying unnatural, im saying normal
I never heard a gay or lesbian say that in the military. "Normal"

Yeah, well, the US and Florida ain't exactly the peak of civilization.
We have the biggest guns, we make the most money and we have the best science. Yeah I would say we are the peak. Though Florida may not be the peak of US society

What the hell is a boing 747?


A fucking plain dumb ass

Quite frankly, i cannot STAND people who cannot tolerate homosexuals. I'll be blunt about it- All such people are bigoted, ignorant, misinformed, uneducated... bigots! Especially if they're OPEN about it! If you're against homosexuality, why do you have to be open about it? It's pretty hypocritical! Being open against openness, that is.

I don't usually make such blunt posts, but this is REALLY pissing me off.

Sure we should let them in, but they're the first line of defense! Think about it, most of the gays die, and some of the enemy die with them. Also I think that we should seperate the gays' barracks, and the straight people's barracks, to prevent outbreaks and possible *ahem* homosexual harassment.


This is a rather inauspicious beginning, Pot Smoking Dragons. Play nicely.

I just plain sin.
Calling Dr. Freud.

Yeah, well, the US and Florida ain't exactly the peak of civilization.

I've been in the U.S for the last 8 years of my life, and havent had a chance to visit other countries.. So I cant really say much about how they treat gays in other countries

I agree with you, but that's getting really close to trolling.... not that half this board isn't.....

Umm, no, it's not.

Yes, there are. But I only show them to school children during my recruitment run.

:D :D :D

A fucking plain dumb ass
Oh, like the sort we have out in the mid west?

"there asses"?

Yay we have a funny guy.

" Working there asses off = Working verry hard to accomplish a goal they set as a " great opstical in life ". "

In my case, I need to " work my ass off ", or better known to you, work till I am bloody all over, to achieve what I want. And I want to be in the Marine corps. Why am I working so hard? I don't want to fuck up my chances of getting in the Marine corps by fucking up at school for not doing my hw.

I've been in the U.S for the last 8 years of my life, and havent had a chance to visit other countries.. So I cant really say much about how they treat gays in other countries

We get to get married and adopt children and join the army and, well, are just like any other citizen.

homophobic

I hate that term.
I'm not scared of homosexuality, I DETEST it.

A fucking plain dumb ass
Ah. So you can tap a "boing 747" for one white mana?

please shut up. your making me ill

You sure you don't mean "giving me wood"?

And before you criticise me, I'm white, good enough class, male, live in a urbanized city, and vote Republican, and belong in a group of highschoolers working there asses off so they are prepared for the Military.

Oh and,

Straight.

how unusual.

only option left is that you're retarded.

I never heard a gay or lesbian say that in the military. "Normal"


because theres the dont ask dont tell policy.. thats why they dont say it.. and it should stay that way.. its not a place to be telling ppl what ur sexual preference is anyway... Anyway.. the guys in the military are usually the buff dudes that no one expects to be gay.. not the flamboyant hairdressers and pansies... so its better to not know the big dudes that can bench 500 lbs are gay... just let it go... sexuality shouldnt be discussed openly in the military... which goes back to the dont ask dont tell, which is perfectly fine by me

"Do what to me? Caress me? Love me? Kiss me? Fuck me? Make me come like no woman will ever even be able to dream of making someone come?

Because I love it."

please shut up. your making me ill
I love watching the little homophobes squirm.

What the hell is a boing 747?

It's when you have sex 747 times.

We get to get married and adopt children and join the army and, well, are just like any other citizen.

All i've got to say is... Do not bring those kids to America. Because they will get picked on till the point of suicide, and im actually serious about that

A fucking plain dumb ass

Is it a fruited plain?

We get to get married and adopt children and join the army and, well, are just like any other citizen.
Unfortunatly true. YOu can make a mockery of marriage, mess up kids lives and prance about in what should be a mans uniform. Congrats

homophobic

I hate that term.
I'm not scared of homosexuality, I DETEST it.
There's a word for that too. Bigoted troll.

because theres the dont ask dont tell policy.. thats why they dont say it.. and it should stay that way.. its not a place to be telling ppl what ur sexual preference is anyway... Anyway.. the guys in the military are usually the buff dudes that no one expects to be gay.. not the flamboyant hairdressers and pansies... so its better to not know the big dudes that can bench 500 lbs are gay... just let it go... sexuality shouldnt be discussed openly in the military... which goes back to the dont ask dont tell, which is perfectly fine by me
It's not like every gay wants to fuck you, that would be arrogance on your part.

"there are over three hundred species whose members have been recorded engaging in homosexual activity."

yes, and a lot of animals kill and/or eat thier own kind too, so should we do that? I think not

this brings up an interesting point: the reason for laws to exist.

the idea of a legal system is to make sure that people can do whatever they want so long as it doesn't cause harm to others. killing and eating someone would be harming someone. having gay sex with a willing participant would not.

It's when you have sex 747 times.

...with an elephant.

Then how do you explain everythign around you.

With science and reason, and not some fairytale about a sky wizard.

Not that big bang crap. Thats like saying if a tornado went through a junk yard it would asemble a perfect boing 747

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

"All such people are bigoted, ignorant, misinformed, uneducated... bigots!"

How very intolerant of you! :D

homophobic

I hate that term.
I'm not scared of homosexuality, I DETEST it.

A phobia doesn't necessarily mean "fear". It also means a "strong or irrational aversion to". Hence, you *are* homophobic.