NationStates Jolt Archive

impossible. i believe God is everywhere, even inside us if we've accepted him, but he's not tangible, as energy is. well, you can't touch energy, but you can harvest and use it
Then you've just contradicted your statement that god is energy. Which is it? Is god energy? Would you like to revise your definition so it's not falsifiable and you can hide from reason?

free will. have you or not?

Oh, if Jesus and the kid were the only beings around at the time you'd think the kid raped himself? How is that possible?

How do you know there wasn't anybody with god at the time the universe was made? Maybe Mrs. God. How do you know that god was even there?



if god wasn't there then who was?

break matter into its most basic form and then break it down agian and you get pure energy and nothing more that is what god is
Just energy? No thought? No Will? That's a neat supreme being. Just mindless radiation.

Then you've just contradicted your statement that god is energy. Which is it? Is god energy? Would you like to revise your definition so it's not falsifiable and you can hide from reason?


i'll just leave you to your telltale backstabbing tactics. i could say just the same for your concepts, but i'll just leave you to yourself. i'm praying for everyone on this thread. peace out.

if god wasn't there then who was?

no one

Just energy? No thought? No Will? That's a neat supreme being. Just mindless radiation.

Wait a minute... wouldn't that mean the sun is god? Hey, a reason to revive sun worship! ;)

No, because in the end I couldn't prove if either was true or not. Still, I feel that some things are beyond the scope of our ability to understand at this point in time and so should be considered as unaffected by belief, in theory. Time may prove differently however.
So, and PLEASE do correct me if I've misunderstood this, you think there may be one or more elements to existence that are unaffected by our belief in them, because we cannot understand them, but you're not sure on even that.

I have to say, that's pretty strong agnosticism. ;)

Let me ask the question another way. Do you think that you and I are living in the same universe?

break matter into its most basic form and then break it down agian and you get pure energy and nothing more that is what god is

pure is god,i hope we find fission energy soon it could save this world

Then you've just contradicted your statement that god is energy. Which is it? Is god energy? Would you like to revise your definition so it's not falsifiable and you can hide from reason?

I am not contradicting anything energy in its pure form cannot be used just changed
"Energy cannot be created nor destroyed just changed"

God?

It sounds too personal. Calling him/her/it is too Egocentric for humanity.

There is an unmoved mover of all things.

However, what we do affects the rift of reality which began from that unmoved mover.

The totality of all cannot be under one singular intelligence, if so, then we'd be like bees.

Nobody really knows the answer as to why but for so long as there is a reason it doesn't really mean that it's God.

It's subjective.

if god wasn't there then who was?
Perhaps nobody was. Perhaps several gods. Perhaps a goddess. Perhaps the dragon Tiamat. Perhaps a mindless force of creation. Those are just a few possibilities I came up with in a few seconds. It must have taken you even less than that to settle on god. Doesn't such an issue deserve more thought?

well, how about you pick up a Bible, and try reading it and interpreting it, without skewing it. like i said, i'm not wasting any more time explaining myself
I asked for proof, not stories. If you have any objective proof of God, then tellus. Otherwise, admit that it is purely a matter of faith, and I believe that the Bible itself says just that, that it's only a matter of faith, if I remember correctly.

i'll just leave you to your telltale backstabbing tactics. i could say just the same for your concepts, but i'll just leave you to yourself. i'm praying for everyone on this thread. peace out.
Backstabbing? I never pretended to be your pal. I've been your opponent in this since the beginning.

So, and PLEASE do correct me if I've misunderstood this, you think there may be one or more elements to existence that are unaffected by our belief in them, because we cannot understand them, but you're not sure on even that.

I have to say, that's pretty strong agnosticism. ;)

Let me ask the question another way. Do you think that you and I are living in the same universe?

It kind of borders on agnosticism, with polytheism and nature spiritism thrown in!

About the universes:
Maybe . Since the field of quantum mechanics is so deep and unexplored, it is entirely possible that we are from different universes, communicating through a link or overlap between Earth and one of its counterparts.

pure is god,i hope we find fission energy soon it could save this world
We've got fission working in every nuclear reactor in the country. Fusion has taken place at Princeton Plasma Physics, just a few short miles from my home. We can't keep a fusion reaction going though.

what is god?

pure is god,i hope we find fission energy soon it could save this world

Nuclear fission is used in every nuclear plant contructed. Do you mean fusion?

I asked for proof, not stories. If you have any objective proof of God, then tellus. Otherwise, admit that it is purely a matter of faith, and I believe that the Bible itself says just that, that it's only a matter of faith, if I remember correctly.
I don't think that the Bible ever says that the existence of God is a matter of faith. If you have a Bible reference that supports your statement, please give it, I'd like to check it out. :)

Backstabbing? I never pretended to be your pal. I've been your opponent in this since the beginning.

...are you drunk commies? as in the orriginal?..or just ..??

I am not contradicting anything energy in its pure form cannot be used just changed
"Energy cannot be created nor destroyed just changed"
I asked you to build a device to measure this god energy. You said it's intangible and can't be done. Doesn't sound like energy to me. It's either energy like you stated previously, and therefore can be measured, or it's not.

We've got fission working in every nuclear reactor in the country. Fusion has taken place at Princeton Plasma Physics, just a few short miles from my home. We can't keep a fusion reaction going though.

sarcasme

Just energy? No thought? No Will? That's a neat supreme being. Just mindless radiation.

if god is everywhere then god is in the minds of every thing in this universe and put the combined thinking power of everything on this planet and i really dont think that it is mindless
(im not defending religion I am trying to break the imaginary wall between religion and science)

...are you drunk commies? as in the orriginal?..or just ..??

bump

I asked you to build a device to measure this god energy. You said it's intangible and can't be done. Doesn't sound like energy to me. It's either energy like you stated previously, and therefore can be measured, or it's not.

not all energy can be measured. A black hole has immense energy but we dont know how much or even ,exactly, what they are

...are you drunk commies? as in the orriginal?..or just ..??
The one and only. I was deleted and had to make a new nation.

not all energy can be measured. A black hole has immense energy but we dont know how much or even ,exactly, what they are
god is a black hole .ask Hawkind.lol

The one and only. I was deleted and had to make a new nation.


i can't imagine why you were deleted.

The one and only. I was deleted and had to make a new nation.

Was the original DC wiped out along with Jesussaves or individually?

i can't imagine why you were deleted.


no response?

Bullshit on your whole post. Gravity is clearly defined, and easily measured. God is neither.
Um, not so easily measured. It has only been done once, and that was only possible because of a cosmological fluke.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

It kind of borders on agnosticism, with polytheism and nature spiritism thrown in!

About the universes:
Maybe . Since the field of quantum mechanics is so deep and unexplored, it is entirely possible that we are from different universes, communicating through a link or overlap between Earth and one of its counterparts.
An agnostic polytheistic spiritist. I think you're my first! And yes, I know that I have not just defined you, merely placed you in a semi-appropriate category to help me understand where you're coming from.

I think we have an entirely different theoretical concept of truth from each other. I used to be really quite agnostic, but I don't think I ever seriously challenged the existence of a shared universe that we all inhabit (though I know Douglas Adams did bring up the idea in "Mostly Harmless"). I now know that I can definitely not persuade you of the truth of Christianity using theoretical arguments, not that I'm sure that's a sufficiently useful idea anyway.

So, on a not-entirely-unrelated argument, what do you think about Christians? I'm thinking of those you actually know personally, or whose writings you have read.

The one and only. I was deleted and had to make a new nation.

...the bastards...simmilar thing happened to me

did you see how god can "whiver away"in this tread"funny

Religion is opium to the people!! Can't u see ??
To make you believe that every bad guy is punished in "hell". and that you all good cristians will go to "heaven" for beeing good. What if the real test here on earth is to see wich of us who are naive enough to belive in something that isn't real? to separate the sain from the insane? All cristians say that they feel god through prayer, and thats their only way of saying that they can confirm the existance of god. And in every question on why (for an example) god kills babies not older than 2 weeks, the only answer is that the ways of god are beyond our understanding....
During prayer, this feeling u get. Couldn't it be a fiction of your imagination??
Becouse you want it so bad. Because if you don't believe in god you will be totaly shut out of the social part of your life. For an example, if a woman want to get pregnant really badly she could get symptoms of pregnancy even thou shes not pregnant. No Offence or anything, but i believe its the truth.
Feel free to comment.

nope

back on track then, shall we be


whoa...that sounds like Yoda

back on track then, shall we be


whoa...that sounds like Yoda
good force

Yes, I believe that there is a God.

even if big bang is correct:

a)What created the particles that were at rest?

and

b)What made them move?

if god is everywhere then god is in the minds of every thing in this universe and put the combined thinking power of everything on this planet and i really dont think that it is mindless
(im not defending religion I am trying to break the imaginary wall between religion and science)
Then god was mindless before animals evolved?

I don't think that the Bible ever says that the existence of God is a matter of faith. If you have a Bible reference that supports your statement, please give it, I'd like to check it out. :)
No, I don't have any verses. I just have what I remember from Bible school classes.
I sort of misphrased the 'matter of faith' bit, so let me try to explain it better.
The way they taught it was that there isn't a scientific proof of God or anything, and that the main elementof a proper relation with God was having faith in Him without needing proof of His existance. It seemed to be pretty well backed up with scripture too.
Of course, that was six years ago and I can't remember what the verses were or anything. It might just be that I went to a really wierd church or something like that, I dunno.

An agnostic polytheistic spiritist. I think you're my first! And yes, I know that I have not just defined you, merely placed you in a semi-appropriate category to help me understand where you're coming from.

So, on a not-entirely-unrelated argument, what do you think about Christians? I'm thinking of those you actually know personally, or whose writings you have read.

Unusual, but true. :)

Of Christians I know, I find them to be kind and compassionate people who live as Christ wanted them to. They are solid in their faith but not evangelical, and only discuss it when attacked or questioned about. I respect them very much and they are friends of mine. I don't have any dislike or hostility towards the religion because of the many excellent examples of the faith I have seen.

Of Christian writers I like the works of the early Church and the medieval theologians like Aquinas.

not all energy can be measured. A black hole has immense energy but we dont know how much or even ,exactly, what they are
But we can detect a black hole. We can see matter falling into it. We can pick up radiation from matter accelerating into it. Why can't we detect god in some fashion if it's there?

i can't imagine why you were deleted.
Mainly for posting stuff like you do.

what is god?

No, I don't have any verses. I just have what I remember from Bible school classes.
I sort of misphrased the 'matter of faith' bit, so let me try to explain it better.
The way they taught it was that there isn't a scientific proof of God or anything, and that the main elementof a proper relation with God was having faith in Him without needing proof of His existance. It seemed to be pretty well backed up with scripture too.
Of course, that was six years ago and I can't remember what the verses were or anything. It might just be that I went to a really wierd church or something like that, I dunno.


so what made those teachings unbelievable for you?

so what made those teachings unbelievable for you?
The fact that I've never been able to truly believe in something without evidence. That's what ended up turning me agnostic.

Then god was mindless before animals evolved?

this energy exists on all levels and in all planes.. including time quantom physics states that this energy can jump around in time and even be in two or more places at once therefore it is in everything there ever was and ever will be

The fact that I've never been able to truly believe in something without evidence. That's what ended up turning me agnostic.

well, why don't you take a leap of faith without hard-core evidence? it's what kept me from killing myself. if that's not convincing enough, i don't know what is.

Come on ,What is god?

But we can detect a black hole. We can see matter falling into it. We can pick up radiation from matter accelerating into it. Why can't we detect god in some fashion if it's there?

because we have nothing to compare it with

we can only tell that a black hole is there because we compare data from it with other data and yet god is everywhere so there is no data to compare it to

Was the original DC wiped out along with Jesussaves or individually?
Shortly after

this energy exists on all levels and in all planes.. including time quantom physics states that this energy can jump around in time and even be in two or more places at once therefore it is in everything there ever was and ever will be

.....budy..you are making this shit up

Come on ,What is god?

energy

.....budy..you are making this shit up

yup just me and all the quantom physicists in the world just sittin around makin crap up just to confuse you

energy
electricity?

ok, just because monkeys can use sticks to rustle up some termites does not mean they are nearing sentiency. but heck, they would make some funny commercials. I was thinking more Whales...

what, the things like stickand rock "gods"? yeah, i real sure a leaf could create a whole universe I find that offensive.

What of the gods of Greece and Rome?

They were definitely not sticks or rocks. Plus, a leaf is part of nature, which could then linked to a God of Nature, and from there to the higher Gods/Goddesses who actually created the universe. We pagans generally revere a Goddess rather than a god, but that can vary between both, one or ‘tother.

The big bang states that everything comes from nothingness. Physics also states that matter cannot be created nor distroyed. Yet QUANTUM physics states that it can. It’s energy that can’t be created or destroyed, btw.

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable
(3) Therefore, God exists. Lol, Yes!

Evolution states that the first living cell came to be when a lightning bolt struck the water in an atmosphere where ammonia is the prime element and yet ammonia does not create enough static energy to create lightning. Static energy? Oh, you mean charge...

The ions dissolved in the water around it would have had more than enough to attract the lightning. And anyway, water is grounded. (generally). Lightning charge is built up in the clouds, and is discharged into the earth or sea.

for some realy interesting views on god read


angels and deamons
and The da vinci code Da Vinci Code has a really crap ending...

I shall dwell for eternity in a paradise of hot women and cold beer. Groovy. There better be hot Guys in SummerLand too...

Shortly after

Did they trace it back to the source or was it known already that the two were linked?

yup just me and all the quantom physicists in the world just sittin around makin crap up just to confuse you

...i knew it!

electricity?

energy in its most basic form

energy in its most basic form

I'd assume that is radio energy?

i wiill repat it untill i get a decent awnser
but

What is god?

i wiill repat it untill i get a decent awnser
but

What is god?

God is an eternal being, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. he is not energy, he is not you or me, and he will judge all of us someday

God is cool... :D

God is an eternal being, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. he is not energy, he is not you or me, and he will judge all of us someday

Wat is god?

Did they trace it back to the source or was it known already that the two were linked?
They knew. They forumbanned me and I tried to post with another puppet. So the deleted the three of me.

i wiill repat it untill i get a decent awnser
but

What is god?

if you break down cells you get molecules break them down you get atoms break that down you get neuclie break that down you get quarks break that down you get photons

photons are a pure and simple energy and that is god

if you break down cells you get molecules break them down you get atoms break that down you get neuclie break that down you get quarks break that down you get photons

photons are a pure and simple energy and that is god
So god is all matter and energy in the universe. So god came into existance with the big bang then?

if you break down cells you get molecules break them down you get atoms break that down you get neuclie break that down you get quarks break that down you get photons

photons are a pure and simple energy and that is god


God is not energy. he is, as i said, a spiritual being, who knows, sees, and has the power to do, all. He is not you or I, and he IS NOT ENERGY!!!

So god is all matter and energy in the universe. So god came into existance with the big bang then?

no god CREATED everything in the universe
it is the basic in which everything else is built apon

if you break down cells you get molecules break them down you get atoms break that down you get neuclie break that down you get quarks break that down you get photons

photons are a pure and simple energy and that is god
what is god? kung fu?(i practise it 15 jears now)

God is an eternal being, omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. he is not energy, he is not you or me, and he will judge all of us someday

Wouldn't those be attributes of God, not what he is? It seems that describing what God is is the key to finding God, and humans just can't seem to do it.

Wat is god?
Ah, now it makes sense... god is power... god is one big watt.

Of Christians I know, I find them to be kind and compassionate people who live as Christ wanted them to. They are solid in their faith but not evangelical, and only discuss it when attacked or questioned about. I respect them very much and they are friends of mine. I don't have any dislike or hostility towards the religion because of the many excellent examples of the faith I have seen.

Of Christian writers I like the works of the early Church and the medieval theologians like Aquinas.
This is a much more positive answer than I expected; I rather like the novelty of being pleasantly surprised on the General forum!

I'm really glad that you've had good experiences in your interactions with Christians so far. If that sounds condescending, it's not meant to. I've had several conversations with people here who have met some very unpleasant Christians, which drastically affects their opinion of the Christian system of belief for the worse.

So, my slightly-challenging-and-perhaps-controversial question is, if you have recognised kindness and compassion and other qualities worthy of respect in the Christians that you know, have you considered trying out their way of life to see what effect it has on you?

P.S. I haven't read much by the early church fathers, or Aquinas, though "The Rule of St. Benedict" was interesting.

God is not energy. he is, as i said, a spiritual being, who knows, sees, and has the power to do, all. He is not you or I, and he IS NOT ENERGY!!!

are you christian?

Ah, now it makes sense... god is power... god is one big watt. or a big blow without even touching your hart.

Wouldn't those be attributes of God, not what he is? It seems that describing what God is is the key to finding God, and humans just can't seem to do it.

well, those are attributes of his character. we would say "Johnny is tall"

God is the Holy One, The Beginning and The End, the King, and a heck of a lot more

are you christian?

yup

What is god?

This is a much more positive answer than I expected; I rather like the novelty of being pleasantly surprised on the General forum!

So, my slightly-challenging-and-perhaps-controversial question is, if you have recognised kindness and compassion and other qualities worthy of respect in the Christians that you know, have you considered trying out their way of life to see what effect it has on you?


I try to keep myself free from judgement because it is the right thing to do, and also simply because I am not moral nor worthy enough to judge others' beliefs.

In some ways, I do live as a Christian. Save the actual religous belief, I believe in many of Jesus' teachings about how to live. So it's kind of a mix, one that time may later clarify for me.

No, I don't have any verses. I just have what I remember from Bible school classes.
I sort of misphrased the 'matter of faith' bit, so let me try to explain it better.
The way they taught it was that there isn't a scientific proof of God or anything, and that the main element of a proper relation with God was having faith in Him without needing proof of His existance. It seemed to be pretty well backed up with scripture too.
Of course, that was six years ago and I can't remember what the verses were or anything. It might just be that I went to a really wierd church or something like that, I dunno.
My misunderstanding.
Your more detailed explanation tallies fairly closely with what I believe. I think I have subjective evidence of God's existence, but that's not the point you were addressing.

...does your god controll the future?
do you, acording to your religeon have free will?

I try to keep myself free from judgement because it is the right thing to do, and also simply because I am not moral nor worthy enough to judge others' beliefs.

In some ways, I do live as a Christian. Save the actual religous belief, I believe in many of Jesus' teachings about how to live. So it's kind of a mix, one that time may later clarify for me.

well, it's a start. but good deeds are purposeless if God is not at the center of it.

or a big blow without even touching your hart.
Or my wolf, or my ram.

I have a question on the faith topic that some people seem to be brining up. If I told you today that the Raelian religion was the true and only correct religion and you asked me why should you believe me and I respond by saying well you have to have faith in it and only that reason whould you believe me?

yup

Jesus stated that the kingdom of Heaven is smaller than a mustard seed

I am stating that god can be found everywhere and in everything
what else can you find to justify jesus on that statement?

Or my wolf, or my ram.

what is god?

Jesus stated that the kingdom of Heaven is smaller than a mustard seed

I am stating that god can be found everywhere and in everything
what else can you find to justify jesus on that statement?


yes, he is omnipotent, and maybe he is in energy, but he himself is not energy.

...does your god controll the future?
do you, acording to your religeon have free will?

bump

well, it's a start. but good deeds are purposeless if God is not at the center of it.


How egocentric of him...

what is god?
I am waiting with you, to hear an answer to that question.

*sits down beside*

yes, he is omnipotent, and maybe he is in energy, but he himself is not energy.

well why not? do you really believe that god is some old guy with a white beard that is watching over us?

no god CREATED everything in the universe
it is the basic in which everything else is built apon
There was no energy, time or space before the big bang, right? (I know that there was no "before" the big bang. I'm just phrasing it that way for simplicity's sake) So if god is energy, it didn't exist until the big bang. So then god created himself is what you're saying, right? God is limited to this universe, began at the big bang, and when the universe experiences heat death god will fall into an eternal coma.

not really. you can do all the good deeds you like, but if God is not your focus, your deeds, even if wonderful, are purposeless.

I believe that good deeds are an example of faith in a higher power, and they confirm my faith in those power(s) regardless of my actual belief. In my opinion, words are meaningless. What I do is what matters.

I try to keep myself free from judgement because it is the right thing to do, and also simply because I am not moral nor worthy enough to judge others' beliefs.

In some ways, I do live as a Christian. Save the actual religous belief, I believe in many of Jesus' teachings about how to live. So it's kind of a mix, one that time may later clarify for me.
When I talk about taking on the Christian way of life, I'm including such concepts as prayer to God, studying the Bible to find out some of God's will for us, and telling other people about what the Bible says about Jesus (if they want to have the conversation). I'm truly glad that you recognise the moral value in the teachings of Jesus, and I suggest to you that there is much more available to you, which I hope that God may later clarify for you.

I'm not sure what your point about judgement is. Could you explain further?

I am waiting with you, to hear an answer to that question.

*sits down beside*

well i already awnser it in chichen of the egg question.go back you will see it

There was no energy, time or space before the big bang, right? (I know that there was no "before" the big bang. I'm just phrasing it that way for simplicity's sake) So if god is energy, it didn't exist until the big bang. So then god created himself is what you're saying, right? God is limited to this universe, began at the big bang, and when the universe experiences heat death god will fall into an eternal coma.

energy cannot be created nor destroyed god came to this universe and created it god is not limited to this plain of existance

not really. you can do all the good deeds you like, but if God is not your focus, your deeds, even if wonderful, are purposeless.
How do you define purpose, then?

well why not? do you really believe that god is some old guy with a white beard that is watching over us?

i believe he is a spirit, intangible, but still real, and he does watch over us

well i already awnser it in chichen of the egg question.go back you will see it
Yes, I saw. But I am still waiting. ;)

god relates to us in the same way an AI in your videogame would relate to you:
the ai character can think and act of itself- ot has free will compared to the human-controlled characters. however, there is no way for an ai to know that you are there. even though they can 'think' for themselves. the laws of their universe are the rules that controll the game- you, the user (god-figure) can change them, but an ai character has no control and has has to follow them

How do you define purpose, then?

it depends on your objective

energy cannot be created nor destroyed god came to this universe and created it god is not limited to this plain of existance
Physical laws as we know them existed before the big bang? That's news to me.

Yes, I saw. But I am still waiting. ;)
what are you waiting for?

it depends on your objective
On mine, eh? Then how does any action have no purpose?

if god is everything he must be your thoughts and then youre not controlling anything you just believe you do that sounds a bit manipulating and here is some fun things abuot how over reacting inocent murdering god really is :) this was written in some other line but i just love it."God" slaughtered innocent babies because of Pharaoh's stubbornness: "At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.” (Exod. 12:29)

"God" had babies dashed to pieces and pregnant women ripped open: "The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

"God" wanted children to be murdered as human sacrifices: "I let them become defiled through their gifts - the sacrifice of every firstborn - that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.” (Ezek. 20:26)

"God" threatened to have innocent children be devoured by wild animals: “I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.” (Lev. 26:22)

"God" threatened to have children cannibalized: "If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.” (Lev. 26:27-29)

"God" ordered the genocide of women, children and babies: "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.”” (1 Sam. 15:2-3)

"God" aborted fetuses and murdered children in answer to the prophet Hosea's prayer: "Give them, O Lord – what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry .... Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring." (Hosea 9:14-16)

"God" murdered a baby because of David's adultery: “Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." (2 Sam. 12:13-14)

"God" ordered people to kill their brothers, friends and neighbors: “Then he said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'" (Exod. 32:27)

Physical laws as we know them existed before the big bang? That's news to me.

why not?

what are you waiting for?
For an answer to the question.

I'm not a one to mistake the chicken for a fable about the chicken.

I'll leave you a thought about why people should not need proof to believe, I believe Christ said, 'Blessed are those who have not seen but still believe.'

and allso i think god is somthing that human created to controll other people and to explain all this so that they could understand it..... and who can say its wrong? noboody knows so the chance of it being like in the bible is not very big is it? :rolleyes:

For an answer to the question.

I'm not a one to mistake the chicken for a fable about the chicken.

ok!
without mankind,no god.period

there goes the kind, loving, tolerant god theory

ok!
without mankind,no god.period
Yes; but that doesn't answer the question. ;)

:D and allso i think god is somthing that human created to controll other people and to explain all this so that they could understand it..... and who can say its wrong? noboody knows so the chance of it being like in the bible is not very big is it? :rolleyes:

a sort of brain washing power to make people beleive in a higher force, so that they do what you want them to...clever

I'm not sure what your point about judgement is. Could you explain further?

In the aformentioned case, only in the religious and political sense. That doesn't mean I won't debate about it, however. :)

Yes; but that doesn't answer the question. ;)
wich one?

Well, this does it for me. Time to move on... :(

wich one?
What is god?

[first post]
Until recently, I was an implict atheist & saw religion as a waste of time. Now I essentially follow Buddhist teachings. (Karma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Reincarnation etc)

[/first post]

What is god?

energy

I'll leave you a thought about why people should not need proof to believe, I believe Christ said, 'Blessed are those who have not seen but still believe.'
if u belive somthing you havent seen and think thats the only right tihing to belive i think youre quite odd.... if u belive in anything you havent seen you can belive in anything and the possibilty that jesus and god and the "gang" did this and that is not so large you can come up with anything to belive in atleast some 10000000000000000000000000000000000000 things not so good oods right?

God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering. Bien sur!!! Very sweetly said, Canuck. :) I'll admit that christianity is illogical, but it's still completely true. The best week of my life was spent on a mission trip in the summer, and I think I got alot closer to God that summer. ^.^ I guess the point I'm trying to make is that yes, I believe in God.

[first post]
Until recently, I was an implict atheist & saw religion as a waste of time. Now I essentially follow Buddhist teachings. (Karma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Reincarnation etc)

[/first post]


..jolly good show

What is god?
you mean what people want to believe in?

Do you truly believe there is a God? Are you an Atheist? Why would you say that there is or is not a God?


I belive in God, but it's just my belief.

if u belive somthing you havent seen and think thats the only right tihing to belive i think youre quite odd.... if u belive in anything you havent seen you can belive in anything and the possibilty that Jesus and God and the "gang" did this and that is not so large you can come up with anything to belive in atleast some 10000000000000000000000000000000000000 things not so good oods right? I beg of you, at least have the respect to capitalize your saviors' names...as for the 'believe anything' thing, we christians have the bible . We believe that. :)

you mean what people want to believe in?
No, I just mean: What is god?

People believe in things for reasons. Being aware of something is the first clue that there is something to be aware of. ;)

jesus huh?...MY saviors died on the beaches of normandy, dunkirk and guadocanal 60 years ago and your god did nothing to stop them dying

I beg of you, at least have the respect to capitalize your saviors' names...as for the 'believe anything' thing, we christians have the bible . We believe that. :)
It is grammatically proper to capitalize the word "Bible".

It is grammatically proper to capitalize the word "Bible".
Okay, I should have thought of that, thank you for correcting me! ^.^

In the aformentioned case, only in the religious and political sense. That doesn't mean I won't debate about it, however. :)
No, sorry, I still don't understand. Then again, it is quite late . . .

;)

Let's try anyway!

Are you saying you have no way of determining the truth or falsehood of the claims of Christianity? Or that you don't feel you have the moral right to criticize others whose beliefs you think are wrong? Or something else?

I believe in God (Allah). I support the Republicans in Eire. I am a Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist. I am anti-Zionist, Iraq war, Afghanistan war, Guantanamo bay, house arrest proposals in Britain. Lots of people have resons to hate me.

I also support the Cornish people, Welsh people, Scottish people, Basques, Catalans, Occitans and all other small unrecognised nations. They should all have independence.

Originally Posted by The Unspeakable Feast
"I must say that I do believe in god, but hardly like many other people do. I think the big bang did occur, and evolution happens, that we came from monkeys, and all that good stuff. I believe God set the universe in motion by causing the big bang, and that he layed down the laws of physics and biology and all that. He then just let it go, existance is now a self running machine. I do however feel that he intervenes in small ways where he pleases. I do not however think that we are his chosen species. We are just another cog in the giant clock that is the universe. That is just my belief.

My dear god, lol, that is exactly what i believe, minus the species part ( I believe there is no chosen species)

By the way, why are you aethists (sorry if spelled wrong) so determined to tell us we are wrong (by we, I do of course, mean believers)? Most of us dont go around trying to convince you your wrong. I mean, what's wrong with believing in something bigger? Its almost a form of modesty. I guess you can say that we like believing in something protecting us. By the way, you dont just go to hell, you earn it. One last thing a quote somewhere from the bible, dont know where exactly and this isnt the exact wording either, "What you have bound on earth shall be bound in heaven." It pretty simple, if you believe in something, God will recognize this belief and set it to work and have for you your own personal heaven i guess. My interperation

"jesus huh?...MY saviors died on the beaches of normandy, dunkirk and guadocanal 60 years ago and your god did nothing to stop them dying"


Maybe it was their time? By the way, with free will they had the option of taking there own lives into their own hands.

I believe in God (Allah). I support the Republicans in Eire. I am a Marxist-Leninist-Trotskyist. I am anti-Zionist, Iraq war, Afghanistan war, Guantanamo bay, house arrest proposals in Britain. Lots of people have resons to hate me.
I don't hate you!

:)

You do seem to have an unusual collection of religious and political positions, some of which I agree with, and some I disagree with.

No, I just mean: What is god?

People believe in things for reasons. Being aware of something is the first clue that there is something to be aware of. ;)

may be it is a way to make a metaphysic relation with the material world.but since it is base on myths i could say the same about a lot of myths thoughtout hystory....it also could be a way to escape this world.but since it stays hypothitesis it still bullshit(god)...
so what is god?

I also support the Cornish people, Welsh people, Scottish people, Basques, Catalans, Occitans and all other small unrecognised nations. They should all have independence.

your saying that the cornish people should have independence?...whare would they begin?

Well, I tried.
(see post #213)


This isn't a debate, it's a lot of childish bickering. Those involved must like this process. I find it tedious and wasteful, but hey, that's America. And for those of you in this mockery of a debate who aren't from the US, I apologize, and you should know better).

Well, I tried.
(see post #213)


This isn't a debate, it's a lot of childish bickering. Those involved must like this process. I find it tedious and wasteful, but hey, that's America. And for those of you in this mockery of a debate who aren't from the US, I apologize, and you should know better).

...i humbly accept your apology..um..thankue...i think..

I apologise for the lateness of my reply. Thank you for the people who don't hate me. As for Cornish independence, well, devolution would be a start. A national assembly like in Wales.

may be it is a way to make a metaphysic relation with the material world.but since it is base on myths i could say the same about a lot of myths thoughtout hystory....it also could be a way to escape this world.but since it stays hypothitesis it still bullshit(god)...
so what is god?
Myth is the method of the metaphysical. Myth is written in the language of poetry, incorporating symbolism to express feelings and concepts that have no definition, no substance. Things that come from the spirit.

Spirit is to the body what mind is to the brain. Emotion is its vehicle. Myth is its tool.

Religion is a way to relate to god. Myth is the method and spirit the means. So what is god?

God is us.

I apologise for the lateness of my reply. Thank you for the people who don't hate me. As for Cornish independence, well, devolution would be a start. A national assembly like in Wales.

if bits of the country just started dispersing off we would end up with a dozen little bits with terrible ways of government and ...well quite frankly it would not be british

We thought of God. He is our thoughts. He is also a great big good guy in the sky (I think).
All these athiests i see (talking about my experiences now) are so determined to make me not believe in God, yet they complain about Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking at your door. They're just trying to save you from Hell, but you (the athiests) are trying to rid us (believers) of part of our hopes and dreams. Why?

God is us.
All of us? Some of us? Some part of us? Real or imagined? or does it matter?

Aah, but why is it so neccesary to be British?

Imagined, real, he's still there. (God, that is).

Myth is the method of the metaphysical. Myth is written in the language of poetry, incorporating symbolism to express feelings and concepts that have no definition, no substance. Things that come from the spirit.

Spirit is to the body what mind is to the brain. Emotion is its vehicle. Myth is its tool.

Religion is a way to relate to god. Myth is the method and spirit the means. So what is god?
an excuse?

Aah, but why is it so neccesary to be British?

because it is!...and ....well.....because....yes...hmm...its better than being spanish!...or many other peoples actually..come to think of it....

We thought of God. He is our thoughts. He is also a great big good guy in the sky (I think).
All these athiests i see (talking about my experiences now) are so determined to make me not believe in God, yet they complain about Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking at your door. They're just trying to save you from Hell, but you (the athiests) are trying to rid us (believers) of part of our hopes and dreams. Why?

because the jehovah witnesses do the same to us.

if god is all powerfull then heordanes the future....that means we have no free will that means that what ever i am doing your god has decided i must do it...that means that he has already decided wheather i am going to heaven or hell

Anyway, even if God didn't originally exist, he exists now. Let me explain. Lets take someone (lets call him Fred) who doesn't exist. For thousands of years, people everywhere exalted Fred, or Fre's friends or family, all in different ways, so that everyone knew about a variation of Fred. Now, can you say that Fred doesn't exist? When everyone knows about him, lots of people know he exists, believe in him like a rock, die for him? And anyway, does it matter? If enough people think he exists, then he might as well exist.

Religion is a way to relate to god
what is religion?if not the need to beleive

As for why it's important to be British, why, if being British is better than being anything else, it depends who else is British

I don't believe in that predestination stuff

an excuse?
Isn't that a bit of a cop-out?

Anyway, like I said... still waiting for an answer.

As for why it's important to be British, why, if being British is better than being anything else, it depends who else is British

god save the queen(off topic)

Anyway, even if God didn't originally exist, he exists now. Let me explain. Lets take someone (lets call him Fred) who doesn't exist. For thousands of years, people everywhere exalted Fred, or Fre's friends or family, all in different ways, so that everyone knew about a variation of Fred. Now, can you say that Fred doesn't exist? When everyone knows about him, lots of people know he exists, believe in him like a rock, die for him? And anyway, does it matter? If enough people think he exists, then he might as well exist.

dragon theory: lets take a few hundred years back...people beleived the world was flat ...are you saying that the because people beleived the world was flat then it may as well be so?

Isn't that a bit of a cop-out?

Anyway, like I said... still waiting for an answer.
no,don't wait yopu will loose your time like i 'm loosing mine now

what is religion?if not the need to beleive
It is a type of relationship.

I don't believe in that predestination stuff

then you avoid one of the of arguments against god?
and i dont beleive in your god but i will still be stopped in the street by some pathetic fool waving a leaflet telling me to repent. if you ignore something it does not go away

I don't believe in that predestination stuff
Good lad!

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. if you don't believe in a theory of how the universe came to be, then you are aimlessly wandering through life. even if Christianity was fake (and it's not, thank God), note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. everyone always goes for the one doing the job better than them.

all the glory to Him

An atheist is someone who does not believe in god or gods.

I am an atheist... meaning I do not believe in god or gods.

How am I misusing the word?

dragon theory: lets take a few hundred years back...people beleived the world was flat ...are you saying that the because people beleived the world was flat then it may as well be so?
You could say: it may as well have been flat back then.

if god is all powerfull then heordanes the future....that means we have no free will that means that what ever i am doing your god has decided i must do it...that means that he has already decided wheather i am going to heaven or hell
I think God limits Himself in order to give us the ability to make decisions. But, as it's quite late, I don't think I can make this point thoroughly, so I'll leave you with that.

Good night!

An atheist is someone who does not believe in god or gods.

I am an atheist... meaning I do not believe in god or gods.

How am I misusing the word?

you are not..i think this ple...pl....this guy does not understand what aetheism means

no,don't wait yopu will loose your time like i 'm loosing mine now
Aww...

It is a type of relationship.
but since i think people beleive only what they want to ,it is going nowhere.
Respect... ;)

then you avoid one of the of arguments against god?
and i dont beleive in your god but i will still be stopped in the street by some pathetic fool waving a leaflet telling me to repent. if you ignore something it does not go away
I don't see many muslims waving leaflets all over the place. Do you? Muslims don't believe in predestination, so why shouldn't I? I'm a Muslim.

I think God limits Himself in order to give us the ability to make decisions. But, as it's quite late, I don't think I can make this point thoroughly, so I'll leave you with that.

Good night!

and as it is quite late i shall bid you good night to.

*goes off to see how her Bigfoot thread is doing*

At least there's something people can believe in. ;)

Why couldn't the earth have been flat? It's been proved wrong now. For all we really truely know it might have been flat a hundred years ago or whatever but i changed to being a sphere just to spite astronauts or whoever

And with that, good day and good night. Don't let the infidels bite! (jokes)

I don't see many muslims waving leaflets all over the place. Do you? Muslims don't believe in predestination, so why shouldn't I? I'm a Muslim.

i am sorry that kind of came out rong...look its..late so i have to go....this was an interesting debate and it has definatly got me thinking...i bid you good night and i ope to debate with you again in the future.

Why couldn't the earth have been flat? It's been proved wrong now. For all we really truely know it might have been flat a hundred years ago or whatever but i changed to being a sphere just to spite astronauts or whoever

...would god really bother changing all that amount of stuff just to spite a few scientists?...whats the point?

the chicken came first. Genesis doesn't say "and God created all the eggs of the land"

sorry, I always have to answer that question

Actually - go back just a few handfulls of hundreds of years, and you'll find no records of chickens...

They are the domesticated form of 'jungle fowl'.... thus - the egg MUST have come first.

Actually - go back just a few handfulls of hundreds of years, and you'll find no records of chickens...

They are the domesticated form of 'jungle fowl'.... thus - the egg MUST have come first.

indeed.
the chickens parents were not necaserallly chickens themselves..not what we would class as the modern chicken...thats evolution at work

*goes off to see how her Bigfoot thread is doing*

At least there's something people can believe in. ;)
;) or in democracy

well good night people.
this was fun, we really must do it again some time......um..i think i will be off very soon

I Believe in God.

I stronly believe that he is real and he will soon return for the tribulation and redeem his believers.

Read Revaltions, it shows you what will come possibly in our life time.

oh great. an animal rights activist and alien believer rolled into one. :rolleyes:

A peculiarly dismissive attitude, for someone who seems to believe in stories about talking donkeys, and that all men were made by a big bearded pixie.

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you

Because evolution doesn't try to answer the question BEFORE it sees the phenomenon.

Evolution is just a theoretical mechanism to explain something that IS observed.

'Faith' attempts to shape observation to fit a pre-ordained set of rules.

no, only about 6,500 years. a little less, maybe.

Which is weird... because many christians claim the ruins of Jericho as scientific evidence of the veracity of biblical stories... yet science ALSO dates the remaining Jericho structures to about 9000 years ago.

Curious, no?

The very evidence that is used to prove the bible 'true', proves that the chronology of the bible is false...

I'll leave you a thought about why people should not need proof to believe, I believe Christ said, 'Blessed are those who have not seen but still believe.'

This is an interesting saying. Okay so say we are all in an empty room together and I say that there is a pink elephant standing next to me. You point out all different types of proof as to why the elephant isnt there but I refuse to acknowledge your points saying I believe it is there. Does that still justify that the elephant is there?

I don't believe in God and to that only those who believe will get to Heaven. I believe that everyone no matter what do they bow to their garden tree or to Allah they get to final destination or into this power of all. It's not that you will get in you'r own form(your memories, thoughts, opinions) but you'r inner life force that keep you going will get into that nirvana if you need somekind of word. This life is just a phase nothing important and you can make anything you like, just moral codes in there,little bit of shame here. Well this is how I look my world through my eyes, it's tricky to put your own thoughts into shape of text.

The big bang states that everything comes from nothingness.


No, it doesn't.


Physics also states that matter cannot be created nor distroyed.


No, it doesn't.


Evolution states that the first living cell came to be when a lightning bolt struck the water in an atmosphere where ammonia is the prime element and yet ammonia does not create enough static energy to create lightning.


No, it doesn't.

Three from three. Good going.

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell

Or, alternatively - the story YOU believe isn't true... maybe the Islamic image is true... maybe the Norse Pantheon are the real 'gods'.

Big risk, I think... you have to assume that: not ONLY is it possible for there to be gods, but that your small fragment of the thousands of possible answers turns out to be the true one...

No, it doesn't.



No, it doesn't.



No, it doesn't.

Three from three. Good going.


Grave n idle can i ad you as a buddy..you are so much better at the evolution vs creationism debates than i am :)

you are not..i think this ple...pl....this guy does not understand what aetheism means
That's a shame... I had hoped that the fellow (fellow-ess?) in question was going to have SOMETHING to back up their (no doubt, well reasoned) claim.

Ah well... :)

Yes, I previously practiced a enlightening and delicious blend of moderna Buddhism and Thorism until I viewed this documentary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/babelfish.shtml

After watching this it became apparent to me that man was as far as it got.
I believe you will come to the same conclusion

That's a shame... I had hoped that the fellow (fellow-ess?) in question was going to have SOMETHING to back up their (no doubt, well reasoned) claim.

Ah well... :)

....um... :( :)

i 'll go to dream now but i still don't know :What is god?
have nices dream everyone! see you around ;)

i 'll go to dream now but i still don't know :What is god?
have nices dream everyone! see you around ;)

god is ....socks..and marmite....just a few guesses...

Grave n idle can i ad you as a buddy..you are so much better at the evolution vs creationism debates than i am :)
:)

Why, thank you!

Feel most welcome to add me as a buddy. I have been appreciating your sterling work in this very thread, so I would consider myself honoured by the association. :)

If you feel like adding some serious 'big guns' to your portfolio, you might want to look up posts by Bottle, Dakini and UpwardThrust.

"The love that has created the hereafter, that comforts the suffering with the thought of the hereafter, is the love that heals the sick after they are dead, that slakes the thirsty and feeds the hungry after they have died of hunger and thirst"
L. Feuerbach

You may believe in god if u want to, but i am afraid that when u die you will feel very dissapointed! The problem is that i won't be there to laugh at u, because as every other creature with my death i will cease to exist!

:)

Why, thank you!

Feel most welcome to add me as a buddy. I have been appreciating your sterling work in this very thread, so I would consider myself honoured by the association. :)

If you feel like adding some serious 'big guns' to your portfolio, you might want to look up posts by Bottle, Dakini and UpwardThrust.

well i dont know about the other two but i dont think upward thrust is to keen on me.
and thankue for your compliment but i feel that you wer doing all the hard work, i was sort of cheer leading..well i hope you sucseed in whatever you put your mind to :)

God is :fluffle: . Jesus said it and I happily accept it. But why those guys are hurting each others in name of Loving God, maybe His tears have made us grim. Still I have rest in my own mind no need to ponder am I going to hell or is there Mr. Jimbo the bussdriver to get me into the next place I need only faith. I love and let love live.Yes, oh yes baby.

well i dont know about the other two but i dont think upward thrust is to keen on me.
and thankue for your compliment but i feel that you wer doing all the hard work, i was sort of cheer leading..well i hope you sucseed in whatever you put your mind to :)

Thanks, friend. :)

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/IUP/Big_Bang_Primer.html

The big bang theory states that at some time in the distant past there was nothing. A process known as vacuum fluctuation created what astrophysicists call a singularity. From that singularity, which was about the size of a dime, our Universe was born.
You aer aware that's not the only theory out there right?

There's also the multiverse theory, for instance, which I think is slightly more popular than the vacuum fluctuation one.

edit: I should correct myself, the hypotheses on what existed before our own universe are not theory. It is impossible to test or observe outside our universe so it is impossible to confirm any suspcions about what happened before our universe came to be.

If you feel like adding some serious 'big guns' to your portfolio, you might want to look up posts by Bottle, Dakini and UpwardThrust.
Woah, people know I exist?

*blushes*

I'm glad I hopped back into the thread just now.

Wait a minute... wouldn't that mean the sun is god? Hey, a reason to revive sun worship! ;)
Hell, sun and nature worship makes a hell of a lot more sense than the worship of an intangible deity. We know that the sun sustains our lives and the lives of most everything on this planet we know that we cannot live without water, we know that we can't live without food and that it is the earth that allows us to grow food. We also know that all these things exist. We don't know whether a deity exists and if one (or many did) we don't know what (if anything) they do for us.

That's why I pretty much celebrate the solstices and equinoxes. Well, I recognize them and their importance. My personal favourite is the winter solstice, as a person with mild seasonal affective disorder, it is very pleasing to know that the days will begin to get longer once again.

yup just me and all the quantom physicists in the world just sittin around makin crap up just to confuse you
That's not quantum. That's you making shit up.

*is a physics student*

well, it's a start. but good deeds are purposeless if God is not at the center of it.
No they're not.

Einstein said it best: A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

There is much purpose to life, to helping others to doing good without a deity. If you cannot see that, then you are the one to be pitied here.

Hell, sun and nature worship makes a hell of a lot more sense than the worship of an intangible deity. We know that the sun sustains our lives and the lives of most everything on this planet we know that we cannot live without water, we know that we can't live without food and that it is the earth that allows us to grow food. We also know that all these things exist. We don't know whether a deity exists and if one (or many did) we don't know what (if anything) they do for us.


You may be onto something there with sun worship. I think it'll come back in a big way once people realize the sun just pwnz God.

The sun is, from a practical standpoint, immortal. We can pollute the biosphere, but what human activity's gonna affect the sun? It's beyond anything we've got.

It's omni-benevolent. It benefits all life, directly or indirectly.

Arguably, the Sun IS the creator! Earth spawned from it materially, and without the sun there is no life on Earth (or Earth as we know it). The sun is the progenitor of our planet and all living things on it. Fact!

How many other immortal omni-benevolent things do we know of? NONE! Plus, the sun even has vitamin D. Can you say that of God, I think no.

Hell, sun and nature worship makes a hell of a lot more sense than the worship of an intangible deity. We know that the sun sustains our lives and the lives of most everything on this planet we know that we cannot live without water, we know that we can't live without food and that it is the earth that allows us to grow food. We also know that all these things exist. We don't know whether a deity exists and if one (or many did) we don't know what (if anything) they do for us.

That's why I pretty much celebrate the solstices and equinoxes. Well, I recognize them and their importance. My personal favourite is the winter solstice, as a person with mild seasonal affective disorder, it is very pleasing to know that the days will begin to get longer once again.
Do you honestly believe our ancestors knew about photosynthesis?

Just curious: what "importance" do you suppose the solstices had?

You may be onto something there with sun worship. I think it'll come back in a big way once people realize the sun just pwnz God.
or vice-versa *snort*

You may be onto something there with sun worship. I think it'll come back in a big way once people realize the sun just pwnz God.

The sun is, from a practical standpoint, immortal. We can pollute the biosphere, but what human activity's gonna affect the sun? It's beyond anything we've got.

It's omni-benevolent. It benefits all life, directly or indirectly.

Arguably, the Sun IS the creator! Earth spawned from it materially, and without the sun there is no life on Earth (or Earth as we know it). The sun is the progenitor of our planet and all living things on it. Fact!

How many other immortal omni-benevolent things do we know of? NONE! Plus, the sun even has vitamin D. Can you say that of God, I think no.psst... skin cancer...

Do you honestly believe our ancestors knew about photosynthesis?

Just curious: what "importance" do you suppose the solstices had?
Uh... the solstices had importance when it came to growing crops. (there are religious mythologies associated with them as well, for instance the death/rebirth of horus...)

They weren't idiots, they noticed that when the sun was up more, they could grow food and it got warmer. You act like they're idiots or something. Look at some ruins of the ancient world, look at the pyramids, those fuckers have the curvature of the earth built into the side of them... and you're acting like they didn't notice the simple correlation between the length of time the sun stays up and how warm it is/how easy it is to grow crops.

Furthermore, these people have the movements of the heavenly bodies tracked rather precicely (well, it depends on the group, some only tracked the sun and moon, look at stonehenge, it marks out where the sun rises and sets on the solstices and equinoxes) these people didn't have t.v., they had to find something to do.

psst... skin cancer...
psst... you can't live without the sun. Even if it does cause cancer in large amounts, that's why dark skin came about (well, it was around first) lighter skin evolved to absorb more vitamin D, which is very important in bone growth and fetal development.

psst... you can't live without the sun. Even if it does cause cancer in large amounts, that's why dark skin came about (well, it was around first) lighter skin evolved to absorb more vitamin D, which is very important in bone growth and fetal development.But you still get Cancer from Sun Worship.

if you wish to worship such a thing, something that will kill you if you shower it with praise, something that you have to protect yourself from, then go right ahead.

Uh... the solstices had importance when it came to growing crops. (there are religious mythologies associated with them as well, for instance the death/rebirth of horus...)

They weren't idiots, they noticed that when the sun was up more, they could grow food and it got warmer. You act like they're idiots or something. Look at some ruins of the ancient world, look at the pyramids, those fuckers have the curvature of the earth built into the side of them... and you're acting like they didn't notice the simple correlation between the length of time the sun stays up and how warm it is/how easy it is to grow crops.

Furthermore, these people have the movements of the heavenly bodies tracked rather precicely (well, it depends on the group, some only tracked the sun and moon, look at stonehenge, it marks out where the sun rises and sets on the solstices and equinoxes) these people didn't have t.v., they had to find something to do.
Haha! That's an excellent example of modern knowledge imposed on history.

So they had the curvature of the Earth, that means they knew about photosynthesis?

You're extrapolating beyond belief.

Um, so the "heavenly bodies" have some influence on life on Earth?

Haha! That's an excellent example of modern knowledge imposed on history.

So they had the curvature of the Earth, that means they knew about photosynthesis?

You're extrapolating beyond belief.

Um, so the "heavenly bodies" have some influence on life on Earth?
Of course, the women with the "heavenly bodies" tended to mate and produce Babies... that influenced the dominate genes of the species. :D :D :D

But you still get Cancer from Sun Worship.

if you wish to worship such a thing, something that will kill you if you shower it with praise, something that you have to protect yourself from, then go right ahead.
:rolleyes:

I didn't mean worshipping the sun by spending all day lying on your back soaking it in.

I meant sun worship like recognizing that we would be royally fucked without it.

So they had the curvature of the Earth, that means they knew about photosynthesis?
Does it matter if they knew how the sun made plants grow?
I'm saying they weren't idiots and that they grew crops. With no knowledge of plants you can easily figure out that the sun or a light source at least helps to make it grow and that water is also necessary in this process.

It isn't brain surgery.

:rolleyes:

I didn't mean worshipping the sun by spending all day lying on your back soaking it in.

I meant sun worship like recognizing that we would be royally fucked without it.we'll be royally fucked without water... food... and Oxygen.
Besides, I'm not disagreeing with you... just Santa Barbara's notion of Sun Worship.

we'll be royally fucked without water... food... and Oxygen.
Well, my initial post on the subject was more towards elemental/nature worship than anything.

Besides, I'm not disagreeing with you... just Santa Barbara's notion of Sun Worship.
Fair enough.

Or my wolf, or my ram.
Angel fan?

why not?
Because without time, space, matter, energy, a gravitational constant, etc. I thought you couldn't have any physical laws. All that came to be at the moment of the big bang. That's what I'd always heard. I'm not a physicist, I'm just an interested layman, but I'd really like to know your credentials as a physicist. Some of what you've posted doesn't jibe with some of what I've read in books and science magazines.

Woah, people know I exist?

*blushes*

I'm glad I hopped back into the thread just now.

:)

Lol. I've noticed you doing serious work in the forum for quite a while.

So - here's your 15 minutes of fame. :)

Haha! That's an excellent example of modern knowledge imposed on history.

So they had the curvature of the Earth, that means they knew about photosynthesis?

You're extrapolating beyond belief.

Um, so the "heavenly bodies" have some influence on life on Earth?

Why SHOULDN'T our ancestors have known about photosynthesis?

Maybe not the chemistry of it... but it is fairly easy to see that plants grow towards the sun (even if you don't know about auxin), and that plants grow better when it is warmer and brighter (even if you don't know about chlorophyll).

Our ancestors could even have noticed that the air was 'easier to breathe' around green plants... (even if they didn't know about Carbon Dioxide).

Why assume that our ancestors were mindless savages?

earlier on someone asked how so many different skin types and races could have originated from just adam and eve. go to this site for a thorough explanation from a learned scientist

http://r2rministries.com/science/X0196_Creationism_explains.html

earlier on someone asked how so many different skin types and races could have originated from just adam and eve. go to this site for a thorough explanation from a learned scientist

http://r2rministries.com/science/X0196_Creationism_explains.html

Although the person your cite CLAIMS to be a scientist, the openeing paragraph shows a clearly non-Scientific approach. Even before any observation of evidence, this individual feels capable of asserting certainly, that "we are reminded that the nations are a testimony of a creative God who desired individual diversity when He created man".

Thus - a bias is introduced to the scientific proceedings, even before any evidence is assessed.

This 'scientist' then continues through a debate about the superiority or inferiority of separate gene-pools... not in terms of individual environments, but in terms of 'racist' propoganda... perhaps voiced by evolutionists of the past, but still irrelevent to the actual meaning of the evolutionist mechanism.

Evolution doesn't say that the white man will be 'superior' to the black, or vice versa. What it DOES 'say', is that there will likely be situations where the one will be superior to the other.

Example: higher colour content in skin reduces sun-damage.

Example: resistence to sickle-cell anemia increases longevity prospects.

Each of these characteristics must be advantageous in some way, although perhaps detrimental in others.

Evolution doesn't create ONE perfect evolved form, but instead - forms best adapted to SPECIFIC situations.

The last point I wished to discuss: "If Adam and Eve were the parents of the human race, then how did the diversity in humans come about? The answer is really quite simple: it is the result of genetic variation that existed in Adam and Eve".

We have a (supposedly) accurate account of the creation of Eve - and the book version tells us that she was created in her entirety from Adam's genetic material. Thus - aside from the gender, Eve must have beena perfect clone of Adam. Which means that, ignoring mutation, her genetic material would be identical.

Whoever told this essayist that he was a 'scientist' was perhaps being overly generous with the term.

God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering.

I do tend to agree with you. I was never a happy person. I was so very hateful. One day I met a girl. She is the best girl in the world. After our first day I went to my lonely house. I was still partially filled with Daniell's presence and I still felt rather happy. The first time in my life that I was truly happy. It was at that point that I decided that someone in this wide universe was the giver of this beautiful present of happiness. I knew that the only possible answer was God. So I prayed to God. My room did not fill with light. I did not suddenly feel a breeze float through the room, nor did I hear my lord's voice. But I continued to feel happy and content. Then I realized that this feeling is God's presence. So yes, I do believe in God. :)

I, for one, do not believe in an omnipotent, ever-present God, like the Judeo-Christian God. I believe there must have been something, i dont know what, and neither will i assume, to start the universe before the big bang. Then, this "thing" chilled and is still chilling.

I do tend to agree with you. I was never a happy person. I was so very hateful. One day I met a girl. She is the best girl in the world. After our first day I went to my lonely house. I was still partially filled with Daniell's presence and I still felt rather happy. The first time in my life that I was truly happy. It was at that point that I decided that someone in this wide universe was the giver of this beautiful present of happiness. I knew that the only possible answer was God. So I prayed to God. My room did not fill with light. I did not suddenly feel a breeze float through the room, nor did I hear my lord's voice. But I continued to feel happy and content. Then I realized that this feeling is God's presence. So yes, I do believe in God. :)

So why did you associate this happiness with God, rather than with the girl you had just been with?

So why did you associate this happiness with God, rather than with the girl you had just been with?
No kidding it is kind of sad that this girl has made him so happy and yet he does not give her credit for being herself

Yes, I believe that God exists.
Let me clarify that I do not mean to say that I know that God exists. I certainly will not claim to have proof of God's existance. Knowledge, proof, and belief are three entirely different matters. Knowledge comes from evidence and logic. The scientific method is absolutely the best system for gaining knowledge, although personal experience can also add to one's knowledge. Proof is a mathematical process for guaranteeing the truth of a statement. It is an ideal that cannot be reached in most fields of knowledge. Belief comes, (for me) not only from knowledge and proof but also from ...













hope. I didn't say faith. Yay! I really do not see the point of faith for its own sake. That, however, seems to be exactly what some of my fellow Christians are advocating. I, personally, find Pascel's wager very disturbing.
Douglas Adam's genius response to Pascel's wager: "If it turns out that I've been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway"
Hope is different from faith. When I say that my belief in God comes from hope, I mean that my natural optimism causes me to believe that which I want to be true so long as I find it plausible. (Especially in the case of religion since belonging to a religious group such as Christianity really doesn't hurt as long as one takes the right approach to one's religion-I put this in bold because it is very important.) Therefore, I believe in God, and I believe, that if one is going to be religious, as I am, then belief through hope is the right way to do it. Furthermore, if you do not believe that God ought to exist, or if you do not care, I don't blame you whatsoever, nor do I think that non-Christians will be excluded from Heaven.

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Until recently, I was an implict atheist & saw religion as a waste of time. Now I essentially follow Buddhist teachings. (Karma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Reincarnation etc)

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Isn’t Buddhism atheist anyway?

I also support the Cornish people, Welsh people, Scottish people, Basques, Catalans, Occitans and all other small unrecognised nations. They should all have independence.
Cornwall is a county, not a nation. And yes I do know - I live a quarter of an hour away from the Tamar.

Most of us dont go around trying to convince you your wrong.
You are joking, right?

As for why it's important to be British, why, if being British is better than being anything else, it depends who else is British
I’m British.

How many other immortal omni-benevolent things do we know of? NONE! Plus, the sun even has vitamin D. Can you say that of God, I think no.
Not to rain on the Sun-parade, but the vitamin D is in our skin and the sunlight just releases it. ^_^