NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you truly believe there is a God? Are you an Atheist? Why would you say that there is or is not a God?

Yes I believe there is a God.

I've felt his power, and of late, too many things occured that just make me thing that there are people watching out for me.

i would say there is not a god, and the reason is the theories of evolution and the big bang logically make more sense than creationism (and indeed the idea of an all-powerful supreme being); and without faith all i have to go on is logic & rational thought. it is not, however, my place to tell others what to believe, thats just my opinion

I don't beleive that any gods exist. I need evidence to accept the existance of something that extraordinary. Still haven't found any.

I am agnostic. I have never had that feeling that most Christians say they have felt, and I cannot reasonably believe in a omnipotent, benevolent, conscious creator. I, however, have never learned anything that would preclude the existence of a God.

I'll warn you that you are going to get a million atheists coming to this thread trying to prove to you that God doesn't exist.

Do you truly believe there is a God? Are you an Atheist? Why would you say that there is or is not a God?
God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering.

Nope cant say i do.
Never have believed in that fairytale and never will.

I don't believe in any particular god. If it's got a name and a mythology built around it, I call bullshit on general principles.

God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering.

I disagree. I do not beleave in god(s) (esses). Anyone who has spoke to me knows that I am by no means a unhappy person. Well, time to go get chinese food. :)

I lack any belief in any gods... making me an Implicit Atheist.

I lack belief in god, because I have no reason to believe there IS a god, and many reasons to believe that none of the present religions offer a convincing explanation.

I have felt what people refer to as the touch of god, but I can explain it in other ways... without the need to fall back on the supernatural.

I'll warn you that you are going to get a million atheists coming to this thread trying to prove to you that God doesn't exist.

And then a million Christians telling them they are immoral and going to hell, and then the atheists yelling at the Christians... and so on. *sigh*

I disagree. I do not beleave in god(s) (esses). Anyone who has spoke to me knows that I am by no means a unhappy person. Well, time to go get chinese food. :)

I believe in chinese food. :)

I believe in chinese food. :)

My church is the Great Wall Chinese Buffet.

I dont know. If there is a god, i dont believe he is as cruel as my mother's church likes to present him. They all talk about how loving and kind [s]he is, but then everything they preach says that [s]he is egotistical and incredibly jealous. So i dont know.

My church is the Great Wall Chinese Buffet.
can i join your tasty, tasy church?

can i join your tasty, tasy church?

There is room for everyone, grab a plate. I would recommend the General Tso chicken.

Agnostic. Haven't seen any evidence either way on the existance of a God(s)(ess)(es).

I never used to give this topic much thought, either I beleived or I didn't, but there's nothing like the study of Philosophy to open your mind, now it sort of plagues me.
People who try to dis-prove the existance of god will tell you about the evolutionary theory, and the infinity of the universe, and the million other theories on how we came to be here. Everything is a theory within a theory within a theory and nothing is proved. People who try to spread beleif in god take everything on faith, I admire them, but I can't do that.
I have spoken to god, I have asked for god, I have searched for god, but in all eventuality, I have found nothing but the starry sky above us and the moral law within us. Despite this, at the end of the day I do have faith in some higher power, It may not be the god that any religion writes about, but I do have faith that in the total infinity of the universe it is entirely possible for there to be a "Creator", If I didn't then I would never have started looking.

Perhaps my feeligns on God are this, he may not know we are here, he may not care that we are here, we may have been a mistake, an accident, something he's forgotten, we do not need him to give hand down Morality from stone tablets, we do no need him to validate our existance, for all we know, he too may be searchign for his creator.

Edit: However, Pizza can only be the work of a devine power *converts to pizza fuelled theology*

Do you truly believe there is a God? Are you an Atheist? Why would you say that there is or is not a God?
I believe in god, but not in "God" with a big G, because that standard means the god of the Bible to most who read it, and that is just one of many images of god. I believe in the godhood that stems from the life, mind, body and soul* of a living human being.

No, I am not an athiest, although some might call me that.

I would say that there is no God, with a big G, because the images that we build up, portrayed in religious myth and in poetry, are but symbols of god, not god itself. I would say there is a god and that, because they have minds, bodies and hearts, all humans have the capacity to "real"-ise it. I feel that concretizing god (taking it from something strictly idealistic and giving it a form; in other words, making images of "God") is necessary to have something to relate to, but people fall into the trap of mistaking the symbol for the thing it represents. Both religious folk and atheists are guilty of this.


*Symbolised in the inner 'planets' of astrology: Sun, Mercury, Venus and Moon.

No(well not really) agnostic

people fall into the trap of mistaking the symbol for the thing it represents. Both religious folk and atheists are guilty of this.


How so?

Agnostic is the only way to go.

I don't beleive that any gods exist. I need evidence to accept the existance of something that extraordinary. Still haven't found any.

Surely it's not any more extraordinary than apes turning into humans? ;)

How so?
Are you asking, how does it come about that people mistake symbols for the thing they represent? I'm not sure what the explanation for it is, but I know it happens and I've made the same mistake myself. Perhaps just lack of learning (deemed not important enough for the education system to make a point of, and/or not a part of the philosophies passed on by parents). It's nothing I considered important until it was pointed out to me. Go figure.

A good example of it was had in a discussion not too long ago, with Alien Born on the nature of reality, regarding the meaning of words. Words are symbols: the written word composed of character symbols, the spoken word of sound symbols. The characters and sounds combine into something meaningful to the one who says them and to the one who interprets to them. But is the meaning in the words themselves or in the consciousness of the people who utilize them? We say "words have meaning," but is that what we really mean? Isn't it the people (the sender and receiver of the communication) who impart meaning to things? I think it is.

As you know i am a believer in the great God. You may think that i believe in a higher power just because of my own insecuritys throughout life wandering why i exist and what my purpose is. But ill tell you why i believe. I believe because 1 there is not enough proof to disprove or prove God (thats were faith comes in) and 2 because i would like to believe in something out there that i can live in and it understand me

I'm atheist.
I can't believe the existance of a supreme creator with no kind of evidence. I think religion is an invention of humans to explain the things they couldn't explain in other ways, and the more the science advances, the less important religion is. Also, ifeach religion has a different idea of god (or gods), why would any of them be right?

As you know i am a believer in the great God. You may think that i believe in a higher power just because of my own insecuritys throughout life wandering why i exist and what my purpose is. But ill tell you why i believe. I believe because 1 there is not enough proof to disprove or prove God (thats were faith comes in) and 2 because i would like to believe in something out there that i can live in and it understand me
If you cant prove or disprove god why did you select the positive (that there is indeed a god)?

I dont believe in god.

As i have said faith, now let me ask you why you select the negative?

I don't think there is, but who knows. I mean there is some freaky crap that goes down sometimes (ie, a chruch was leveled when its propane tank exploded, everything was spread around, but a statue of Mary was still standing)

So, that's why I'm agnostic (former Catholic).

As i have said faith, now let me ask you why you select the negative?
I dont I am agonstic

But most atheist (soft) do so because it is always good policy to not assume something till you have had some decent proof.
Otherwise to be consistant you would have to believe EVERYTHING is true untill disproved and that gets a bit harry

It is just more logical rather then emotional

Surely it's not any more extraordinary than apes turning into humans? ;)
We know the mechanism by which a population of apes can evolve into humans. We have evidence that it took place. What evidence do we have for god? We don't understand the mechanism that makes god's magic work either.

God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering.

Well, firstly I do not really share that experience, seconly even if those who believe in God do live a better life, this wouldnt make God exist, if he does not.
So do you rather believe in something in order to have a better life than seriously thinking about whether it is true?

I don't think there is, but who knows. I mean there is some freaky crap that goes down sometimes (ie, a chruch was leveled when its propane tank exploded, everything was spread around, but a statue of Mary was still standing)

So, that's why I'm agnostic (former Catholic).

Coincidence or a made up story. 9/11 - some dude up on one of the top floors survived with a broken leg. He fell all the way down. He was lucky due to the chance meeting of certain factors that enabled him to survive.

I must say that I do believe in god, but hardly like many other people do. I think the big bang did occur, and evolution happens, that we came from monkeys, and all that good stuff. I believe God set the universe in motion by causing the big bang, and that he layed down the laws of physics and biology and all that. He then just let it go, existance is now a self running machine. I do however feel that he intervenes in small ways where he pleases. I do not however think that we are his chosen species. We are just another cog in the giant clock that is the universe. That is just my belief.

And thats why i believe i do have proof you have proof everyone has proof you just choose not to believe the truths in front of you

As i have said faith, now let me ask you why you select the negative?
I select the negative because in the absence of any evidence the negative view is the default. For example, do you beleive in dragons? Probably not without seeing some evidence, right?

You cant test god's existence empirically.

I select the negative because in the absence of any evidence the negative view is the default. For example, do you beleive in dragons? Probably not without seeing some evidence, right?thats why i believe in God lack of evedence for anything else

And thats why i believe i do have proof you have proof everyone has proof you just choose not to believe the truths in front of you
Sorry, you have never demonstrated proof of god's existance. You are worshipping a fairy tale.

And thats why i believe i do have proof you have proof everyone has proof you just choose not to believe the truths in front of you
you just said you did not have enough


But ill tell you why i believe. I believe because 1 there is not enough proof to disprove or prove God

See?

In fact if god is meant to be limitless then he must be all things including what he is not. The concept of god is a paradox. So he doesnt exist. He doesnt have to follow the laws of human reason if he created them. He has to be beyond reason to do that in the first place. But if he is a contradicition he may as well not exist.

thats why i believe in God lack of evedence for anything else
Then why don't you beleive in many gods? Or a goddess? Or a mindless force of creation? All of those have just as much evidence as your god. They must all be true!

Let's say there's been a brutal rape and murder, and no evidence pointing to a suspect. Should we incarcerate your god? By your logic he obviously is guilty. Have fun worshipping your rapist, murderous god.

I don't believe in any deites.

There's no evidence either way and I don't think it's possible ot prove the existance or non-existance of a deity.

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs"

I will add though that I dont think the Bible is fact. I believe in God, but not the bible.

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs"
LOL you have NO proof that EVERY person existed ... the bible does not count that is circular logic

I know more then you do about the bible as a historical document then you do :) (and that is what YOUR beliefs are bassed on)
Maybe you should ask yourself about it (infact I remember you saying you have only read 12 books of the most important book to your existance)

Then why don't you beleive in many gods? Or a goddess? Or a mindless force of creation? All of those have just as much evidence as your god. They must all be true!

Let's say there's been a brutal rape and murder, and no evidence pointing to a suspect. Should we incarcerate your god? By your logic he obviously is guilty. Have fun worshipping your rapist, murderous god.You know in a way im like the church of smyrma i know whats going to happen to you and to be honest i pity you and your words and works i realy do

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs"
:D
You're funny.

You know in a way im like the church of smyrma i know whats going to happen to you and to be honest i pity you and your words and works i realy do
As we do you ... kind of fitting is it not

Why do you pity one of the few

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs"
Who says everyone in the bible existed?

Of course some celebrities may be accurate, the kings, the neighbourign tribes, doesn't mean that what they did was exaggerated or an outright fabrication.

Why do you pity one of the few
I ment the genaric you not the specific

Hmm... this has really gotten too hostile... The believers are jumping around saying GOD IS REAL BELIEVE NO PROOF HE DOESN'T EXIST RAWR WORSHIP!

And the athiests and what not are storming in STUPID PERSON DAMN YOUR FAITH SEE HARD FACT BELIEVE FOOLISH FOOLS NO PROOF SEE NO PROOF RAWR

Ahem... but then again that statement didn't add to much so I guess I am not practicing what I preach.

i would say there is not a god, and the reason is the theories of evolution and the big bang logically make more sense than creationism (and indeed the idea of an all-powerful supreme being); and without faith all i have to go on is logic & rational thought. it is not, however, my place to tell others what to believe, thats just my opinion
i'd like to point out two things. first of all, evolution is the only theory not supported by experiments, and even if it was, it does not conflict with a Creator. secondly, the big bang also does not conflict with the idea of God, in fact it supports it. I have some quotes (somewhere) from scientists, professional and respected scientists, who have spent years studying all evidence concerning the origin of life and the origin of the universe, and concluded things like "it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe that God exists and created the universe and everything in it, including life itself. i agree, it's no-one's place to tell others what to believe, unless it is backed by enough evidence to make it the prime theory. unfortunately (for u guys), there is more evidence supporting Christianity than any other religion or "conflicting" theory.

You know in a way im like the church of smyrma i know whats going to happen to you and to be honest i pity you and your words and works i realy do
I'm sure your wrong. I know what will happen to you, and I pity you for living a lie.

Hmm... this has really gotten too hostile... The believers are jumping around saying GOD IS REAL BELIEVE NO PROOF HE DOESN'T EXIST RAWR WORSHIP!

And the athiests and what not are storming in STUPID PERSON DAMN YOUR FAITH SEE HARD FACT BELIEVE FOOLISH FOOLS NO PROOF SEE NO PROOF RAWR

Ahem... but then again that statement didn't add to much so I guess I am not practicing what I preach.
ahhh its fine no real hostility on my part

The problem is instead of just saying they have belief the god toters keep saying "WE HAVE PROOF!!!11!!!" in which they in fact dont

That is usualy why we fight they seem to need to think they have verifyable proof to justify their beliefs

LOL if your right nothing will happen to me

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs"
Every person in alot of books has existed. But nobody ever rose from the dead, turned water into wine, raised the dead, etc. Those are all just stories told to sucker people into handing over their money and control over their own lives.

i'd like to point out two things. first of all, evolution is the only theory not supported by experiments, and even if it was, it does not conflict with a Creator. secondly, the big bang also does not conflict with the idea of God, in fact it supports it. I have some quotes (somewhere) from scientists, professional and respected scientists, who have spent years studying all evidence concerning the origin of life and the origin of the universe, and concluded things like "it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe that God exists and created the universe and everything in it, including life itself. i agree, it's no-one's place to tell others what to believe, unless it is backed by enough evidence to make it the prime theory. unfortunately (for u guys), there is more evidence supporting Christianity than any other religion or "conflicting" theory.
LOL it is hardly the ONLY theory :p and (and there are PLENTY of experaments on the small scale including the nylon big)
LOL MORE information for Christianity how so? (besides creationism is not a scientific theory so it could not be a "conflicting theory" )

There had to have been something to create something, I believe that there has to be some creator, regardless if it is the exact religion of _____ whatever there had to be a creator.

Religion is so infantile. I won't go out of my way to disprove the existence of a deity because frankly, I don't care.

i'd like to point out two things. first of all, evolution is the only theory not supported by experiments, and even if it was, it does not conflict with a Creator. secondly, the big bang also does not conflict with the idea of God, in fact it supports it. I have some quotes (somewhere) from scientists, professional and respected scientists, who have spent years studying all evidence concerning the origin of life and the origin of the universe, and concluded things like "it takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe that God exists and created the universe and everything in it, including life itself. i agree, it's no-one's place to tell others what to believe, unless it is backed by enough evidence to make it the prime theory. unfortunately (for u guys), there is more evidence supporting Christianity than any other religion or "conflicting" theory.
lol.

Yeah, I took down a poster that claimed to have quotes from some "scientists" that stated things like that. Upon further investigation, they were not said by scientists, when they were said at all. It seems they were either fasley attributed, misquoted or a combination thereof.

And furthermore, experiments in evolution take a lot longer, and nor s experimentation the only way to demonstrate a scientific theory, there is also the all-important observation. This has been done extensively. It seems that life hasn't been the same on this planet since it started, what do you know?

LOL if your right nothing will happen to me
Besides wasting your life? no

But if one of the other religions are right you are (by your faith) going to hell ;) so not only do you have to be right on if there is a god but also which one
Choose well by your faith your very imortal soul depends on it

Every person in alot of books has existed. But nobody ever rose from the dead, turned water into wine, raised the dead, etc. Those are all just stories told to sucker people into handing over their money and control over their own lives.How can you explain NDE then

i've noticed that everyone on this thread either believes, or is desperately trying to come up with excuses not to believe simply because they don't want to. is the point that the Bible is 100% accurate? is it that God, if He exists, lets bad things happen? i don't think so. i think the point is that God loves everybody, and wants u all to go to heaven, and alot of u are making lame excuses not to believe that, probably because there's some aspect of ur life u don't want to give up....if anyone has actual reasons why they don't believe, instead of reasons made up to cover their unwillingness to believe, please, please PLEASE telegram me(i won't be checking this thread again)

How can you explain NDE then
I think you have to explain what the hell NDE is before anyone can investigate it.

God's spirit resides inside each and everyone of us. I see his spirit on a daily basis in the eyes of those I come into contact with. Those that repress their inner God sense are more likely wearing a frown, are unhappy, and probably make themselves unhappy on a daily basis.

Those that are aware of their God sense tend to display a smile and are quick to forget their own problems to help those that are suffering.

My Jesus sense is... tingling! *dodges your lousy argument just in time*

Ahem... I find that those who self-identify as god-believers are no happier or unhappier than those who do not. While believing that a magic man in the sky is holding a safety net beneath you just in case something icky happens in life may be comforting, there's nothing stopping atheists or agnostics from being happy. Nothing whatsoever. I've been an atheist for years; I view all gods and magical creatures as fictional characters and treat them just like I do Bilbo Baggins or Darth Vader. And I'm quite happy with my life indeed.

i've noticed that everyone on this thread either believes, or is desperately trying to come up with excuses not to believe simply because they don't want to. is the point that the Bible is 100% accurate?
I'm sorry, have we been reading the same thread and/or the same bible?

if anyone has actual reasons why they don't believe, instead of reasons made up to cover their unwillingness to believe, please, please PLEASE telegram me(i won't be checking this thread again)
Well, I'll tell you here...

There's no proof either way.

There had to have been something to create something, I believe that there has to be some creator, regardless if it is the exact religion of _____ whatever there had to be a creator.
Everything needs a creator. Then who created the creator? Ok, then not everything needs a creator. Well, why is god exempt and not the universe?

Near Death Experiences

How can you explain NDE then
Why don't you explain it first. I have no idea what those letters mean.

lol.

Yeah, I took down a poster that claimed to have quotes from some "scientists" that stated things like that. Upon further investigation, they were not said by scientists, when they were said at all. It seems they were either fasley attributed, misquoted or a combination thereof.

And furthermore, experiments in evolution take a lot longer, and nor s experimentation the only way to demonstrate a scientific theory, there is also the all-important observation. This has been done extensively. It seems that life hasn't been the same on this planet since it started, what do you know?
i never said i don't believe in evoluition, i do. i just don't see how it conflicts with God. and yes, there are manyflase quotes, but there are several that i've managed to authenticate, althought i don't have them here...it's also been almost proved, but not quite, that life could not spontaneously arise from the elements present at the time when it supposedly happened

Otherwise to be consistant you would have to believe EVERYTHING is true untill disproved and that gets a bit [hairy]
*Raises eyebrow.* Who says people are consistent? Logic is nice, but it's not natural.

Why don't you explain it first. I have no idea what those letters mean.did you read what i just said?

Near Death Experiences
NEAR death experiences. People who's hearts have stopped, but were saved before their brains had died. They have hallucinations similar to people on Ketamine because from an electro chemical standpoint all hell is breaking loose in their brain as the cells are deprived of oxygen.

Near Death Experiences
Simple they are strikingly similar to hallucinations

This is all a meaningless discussion. Atheists do not accept the "proofs" of the believers... The believers can not think rationally, as the atheists do. It is theoretically impossible to come to a compromise, other than: we just keep believing (believers) and we just don't (atheïsts).

So stop waisting time and use it on something useful. Go plant potatoes or something *waving hand in dismissing gesture*.

Everything needs a creator. Then who created the creator? Ok, then not everything needs a creator. Well, why is god exempt and not the universe?
there's a small flaw there. not everything needs a cause, but only that which comes into being. therfore, the "cause" must never have come into being, meaning it always was and is and shall be. we call the cause God.

did you read what i just said?
Lag in the forum.

*Raises eyebrow.* Who says people are consistent? Logic is nice, but it's not natural.
True I guess I value consistency ... consistency in application generally leads to consistency in output

People believe only what they want to believe in.period.

I must say that I do believe in god, but hardly like many other people do. I think the big bang did occur, and evolution happens, that we came from monkeys, and all that good stuff. I believe God set the universe in motion by causing the big bang, and that he layed down the laws of physics and biology and all that. He then just let it go, existance is now a self running machine. I do however feel that he intervenes in small ways where he pleases. I do not however think that we are his chosen species. We are just another cog in the giant clock that is the universe. That is just my belief.
That's not an unusual belief at all. :)

That's not an unusual belief at all. :)
Deffinatly ... if I could make the leap of faith I have a feeling this is deffinatly what I would believe in

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. if you don't believe in a theory of how the universe came to be, then you are aimlessly wandering through life. even if Christianity was fake (and it's not, thank God), note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. everyone always goes for the one doing the job better than them.

all the glory to Him

Near Death Experiences
That's not hard at all.

The brain thinks it's dying, neurons are firing, resulting in an appearance of a white light and flashbacks of memories from one's life. One is saved (perhaps through medical intervention) and regains consciousness remembering the time they spent teetering on the brink of leaving this world and report it. The white light phenomenon is because of the optical nerves firing a lot if I recall.

In fact if god is meant to be limitless then he must be all things including what he is not. The concept of god is a paradox. So he doesnt exist. He doesnt have to follow the laws of human reason if he created them. He has to be beyond reason to do that in the first place. But if he is a contradicition he may as well not exist.
It is not a limitation to say that god is not what he is not.

there's a small flaw there. not everything needs a cause, but only that which comes into being. therfore, the "cause" must never have come into being, meaning it always was and is and shall be. we call the cause God.
One problem with calling it god. God comes along with certain definitions. People who beleive in god don't think of it as a mindless force. They consider god to be a thinking being who has goals and achieves them. You can't prove the "cause" is not a mindless force like gravity.

it's also been almost proved, but not quite, that life could not spontaneously arise from the elements present at the time when it supposedly happened
tisk tisk.

You should know it's rather impossible to prove a negative.

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. if you don't believe in a theory of how the universe came to be, then you are aimlessly wandering through life. even if Christianity was fake (and it's not, thank God), note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. everyone always goes for the one doing the job better than them.

all the glory to Him
Lol you are silly :p do you even know what atheist means?

Deffinatly ... if I could make the leap of faith I have a feeling this is deffinatly what I would believe in

moses saw God face to face. God told him what to write. scientific theories could not work in conjunction with the Bible, because the Bible would be lying, and God wouldn't exist. if even one part of the Bible is a lie, the whole thing is a big stinkin' lie.

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. if you don't believe in a theory of how the universe came to be, then you are aimlessly wandering through life. even if Christianity was fake (and it's not, thank God), note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. everyone always goes for the one doing the job better than them.
What do you mean, 'using the word improperly'? An atheist is someone who who lacks belief in a God. They quite certainly have theories as for how the universe came to be.

What sort of definition were you thinking of? I am fairly sure you had an incorrect one.

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. if you don't believe in a theory of how the universe came to be, then you are aimlessly wandering through life. even if Christianity was fake (and it's not, thank God), note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. everyone always goes for the one doing the job better than them.

all the glory to Him
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=atheist

I don't beleive god exists. I'm an atheist. Deal with it.

I don't believe in the traditional Semitic idea of God, or others with the same kinds of qualities, but I'm open to less demanding definitions of deity.

so if you're an atheist, why do you believe we exist?

this is the egg and the chicken question.and you can not awser it since you will not be able to give the awnser to the living one (when you are dead),this tread is doomed

moses saw God face to face. God told him what to write. scientific theories could not work in conjunction with the Bible, because the Bible would be lying, and God wouldn't exist. if even one part of the Bible is a lie, the whole thing is a big stinkin' lie.
Congratulations. You've taken a big step towards living in the real world rather than the christian fairy tale.

the chicken came first. Genesis doesn't say "and God created all the eggs of the land"

sorry, I always have to answer that question

Hmm... this has really gotten too hostile... The believers are jumping around saying GOD IS REAL BELIEVE NO PROOF HE DOESN'T EXIST RAWR WORSHIP!

And the athiests and what not are storming in STUPID PERSON DAMN YOUR FAITH SEE HARD FACT BELIEVE FOOLISH FOOLS NO PROOF SEE NO PROOF RAWR

Ahem... but then again that statement didn't add to much so I guess I am not practicing what I preach.
Hehe, it's interesting for two reasons: the opinions evolve before your eyes, and you can detect small but visible trends in people's philosophies if you watch long enough (and if the ones you watch participate often enough); and also, there's always one or two new ideas introduced every time we go through this exercise.

f even one part of the Bible is a lie, the whole thing is a big stinkin' lie.
Well, there a quite a few inaccuracies in the Bible. The one I can remember at the moment is a statement that pi is equal to three.

You might wish to rethink your statement.

so if you're an atheist, why do you believe we exist?
We find our own reasons. A tree is knocked down by a storm. It ends up falling accross a stream. The storm didn't intend to build a bridge, but the person who uses the tree as a bridge has his own purpose for it.

the chicken came first. Genesis doesn't say "and God created all the eggs of the land"

sorry, I always have to answer that question

so without mankind nobody will be aware of god

Congratulations. You've taken a big step towards living in the real world rather than the christian fairy tale.

can you not pick out from my reply that i am a Christian? i was merely pointing out a flaw in another post.

(i am a Christian) DUH!!!

so if you're an atheist, why do you believe we exist?
The currently accepted theory seems to be the Big Bang and evolution.

the chicken came first. Genesis doesn't say "and God created all the eggs of the land"

sorry, I always have to answer that question
The egg came first. A bird that wasn't quite a chicken had a mutation occur in it's eggs that caused them to hatch chickens.

The currently accepted theory seems to be the Big Bang and evolution.

currently accepted with scientists. look, even non-religious people don't all believe the same theory. for all you know, i could be lying, and I could really believe that the whole world hatched from a magical egg

can you not pick out from my reply that i am a Christian? i was merely pointing out a flaw in another post.

(i am a Christian) DUH!!!
No shit? I from your post I thought you were a member of the church of Satan.

My response to you doesn't even make sense unless you're a christian. I was pointing out that you've identified a weakness in your faith.

I believe primarily in nature deuties, especially Pan, although I believe all gods have some truth in them. This stems primarily from my love of nature and wild places, as well as carefree behavior and having a good time.

no, I said that if scientific theories DID work in conjunction with the Bible, it would be full of flaws. note the part about the SCIENTIFIC THEORIES!!!

currently accepted with scientists. look, even non-religious people don't all believe the same theory. for all you know, i could be lying, and I could really believe that the whole world hatched from a magical egg
What does that have to do with anything?
:confused:

which part?

i repeat
so without mankind nobody will be aware of god

i repeat
so without mankind nobody will be aware of god


without mankind? without mankind, there would be no discussions about this. there would be nobody!!!

moses saw God face to face. God told him what to write. scientific theories could not work in conjunction with the Bible, because the Bible would be lying, and God wouldn't exist. if even one part of the Bible is a lie, the whole thing is a big stinkin' lie.
How's this: there's no way that just one man and just one woman started our species off.

Mitochondrial DNA is passed on matrilinially. If there was only one woman at the birth of our species, everyone would have the same mitochondrial DNA. This is not the case, so there must have been more than one woman.

Y chromosomes don't interact as the other chromosomes do. As a result, it does not mutate nearly as much and remains largely consistent from generation to generation. Given strict biblical timelines and the assumption that there was one man to start with, there would not be time for the y chromosome to mutate and divsersify as it has. Every man would have the same or at least pretty similar y chromosome.

So what do you know, Adam and Eve wasn't how it all happened.

without mankind? without mankind, there would be no discussions about this. there would be nobody!!!
who said they will be nobody?

i repeat
so without mankind nobody will be aware of god



without mankind, we wouldn't be here to be aware of God!!!!

no, I said that if scientific theories DID work in conjunction with the Bible, it would be full of flaws. note the part about the SCIENTIFIC THEORIES!!!
Ok, then since evolutionary theory shows that the creation stories in the bible didn't happen that makes the bible somehow flawless?

without mankind? without mankind, there would be no discussions about this. there would be nobody!!!
Yes, we are the only and most important species on this planet. :rolleyes:

And you know, there's not a chance in hell that there's something else out there orbiting one of the billions upon billions of stars with potential planets...

who said they will be nobody?


without mankind, there would be no people. mankind is people. without mankind there is NOBODY!!!!

Yes, we are the only and most important species on this planet. :rolleyes:

And you know, there's not a chance in hell that there's something else out there orbiting one of the billions upon billions of stars with potential planets...


oh great. an animal rights activist and alien believer rolled into one. :rolleyes:

where's Ffc when I need him?

and i forgot wich god are you all speaking about?

without mankind, there would be no people. mankind is people. without mankind there is NOBODY!!!!
Do bobobos count as people? According to a thread yesterday they use language, have complex societies, and can create art and music. That seems alot like people to me.

the chicken came first. Genesis doesn't say "and God created all the eggs of the land"

sorry, I always have to answer that question
Well, really, dinosaurs were laying eggs long beofre chickens came along and fish before them I bet.

As for chickens and chicken eggs... the egg came first, for what laid the egg was not quite a chicken.

without mankind, there would be no people. mankind is people. without mankind there is NOBODY!!!!
is god arrogant?

oh great. an animal rights activist and alien believer rolled into one. :rolleyes:
So you're completely oblivious to the fact that we depend on other species (I didn't even just say animals either, plants, fungi, bacterium even are more important to the health of this planet than our species is...) and I never said that there were aliens, I said with the large number of galaxies and stars out there, there's bound to be life of some sort somewhere in the universe other than just here. If I was a gamber, I'd put my money on it.

We find our own reasons. A tree is knocked down by a storm. It ends up falling accross a stream. The storm didn't intend to build a bridge, but the person who uses the tree as a bridge has his own purpose for it.
Oh, well done! *polite applause*

That's the same reason god exists.

Well, really, dinosaurs were laying eggs long beofre chickens came along and fish before them I bet.

As for chickens and chicken eggs... the egg came first, for what laid the egg was not quite a chicken.



oh, great. evolutionists. how do you know it wasn't a chicken. you weren't there when God made chickens. i'll ask Adam when I get to Heaven and you guys are...

So you're completely oblivious to the fact that we depend on other species (I didn't even just say animals either, plants, fungi, bacterium even are more important to the health of this planet than our species is...) and I never said that there were aliens, I said with the large number of galaxies and stars out there, there's bound to be life of some sort somewhere in the universe other than just here. If I was a gamber, I'd put my money on it.


you'd be bankrupt in a few seconds.

oh, great. evolutionists. how do you know it wasn't a chicken. you weren't there when God made chickens. i'll ask Adam when I get to Heaven and you guys are...
how do you know god is not a human made fable?

oh, great. evolutionists. how do you know it wasn't a chicken. you weren't there when God made chickens. i'll ask Adam when I get to Heaven and you guys are...
Did you miss my debunking of the one man one woman started the human race myth? It's on the page before this one (unless this makes a new page, then it's the page before that)

And no, I wouldn't really be broke betting that there is some other form of life out there somewhere, hell, the second they find microbial life on Europa I win, and it's really quite impossible to prove me wrong without visiting every single star and investigating every planet that orbits it.

Oh, well done! *polite applause*

That's the same reason god exists.
I didn't ask for a reason god exists. I don't beleive that any gods exist. It would be like asking the reason bigfoot exists.

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you

Here is a question: If Earth is the only planet with life, why did God create the universe. Why not make our planet the universe? What is the purpose of the other 99.99999....% of the universe if only Earth has life?

you'd be bankrupt in a few seconds.

Jesus never liked business

[QUOTE=And no, I wouldn't really be broke betting that there is some other form of life out there somewhere, hell, the second they find microbial life on Europa I win, and it's really quite impossible to prove me wrong without visiting every single star and investigating every planet that orbits it.[/QUOTE]


ok, well you go visit them stars with YOUR OWN tax dollars

I don't believe in any particular god. If it's got a name and a mythology built around it, I call bullshit on general principles. Amen to that. I’m a Wiccan, btw.

Surely it's not any more extraordinary than apes turning into humans? If there’s one thing I can’t stand, it’s people mis-stating the theory of evolution in order to prove their point.

I assume that you all know what DNA is, and that it is a basal code passed on from your parents (sometimes with minor mutations). Also know that 40% of our DNA is the same as a rose-bushes, and 90% (or it could have been 99%) the same as a chimpanzee’s. Minor changes in the genetic code can produce quite drastic changes in the phenotype.

Okay. It isn’t one chimp eating magic beans and losing its hair. It’s that when specific genes are beneficial, i.e. they allow the wielder to live longer, then they are passed on, as the organisms with those genes survive long enough to breed.

Now, let’s say, that one day, a chimp baby was born with a mutation - its thumbs stuck out oddly from the rest of the hand, and could be pressed against the other fingers of that hand. This was a useful tool, and that chimp lived longer and produced more offspring, and by a few generations the opposable thumb was common among chimps.

Changes are generally gradual, not sudden.

I must say that I do believe in god, but hardly like many other people do. I think the big bang did occur, and evolution happens, that we came from monkeys, and all that good stuff. I believe God set the universe in motion by causing the big bang, and that he layed down the laws of physics and biology and all that. He then just let it go, existance is now a self running machine. I do however feel that he intervenes in small ways where he pleases. I do not however think that we are his chosen species. We are just another cog in the giant clock that is the universe. That is just my belief. That’s commonly known as ‘Deism’.

false? is that why every person in the Bible has existed just be sheer coincidence? Oh and btw how much do you realy know about your "beliefs" What?

i've noticed that everyone on this thread either believes, or is desperately trying to come up with excuses not to believe simply because they don't want to. *laughs!* No dearie, we don’t believe because we don’t believe, it’s that simple.

look, anyone who says they are an atheist is either improperly using the word, or cannot come up with a better word. there is no such thing as an atheist. *looks around at all the atheists* They look solid enough to me...

note that Christians are not the ones cutting off limbs or flying planes into buildings and/or bombing them. No, planes weren’t invented during the Witch-hunts or the Crusades.

And you do realise that Islam is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judaism, right?

it's also been almost proved, but not quite, that life could not spontaneously arise from the elements present at the time when it supposedly happened
I’m not sure where you’re getting your data from, to tell the truth. Just last week I read an article stating that there may have been more Hydrogen in the atmosphere then was originally thought...

Oh, and just so you know, the needed materials are Methane (or Hydrogen and Carbon, or any other Hydrocarbon), Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide, with Water present. When enough energy is supplied, through electricity (lightning) or ultraviolet radiation, these react together to form amino acids - the building blocks of life.

without mankind? without mankind, there would be no discussions about this. there would be nobody!!! Oh, I’m sure that some other critters are nearing sentiency...


And, for the record, this is one of these: :headbang: descussions.

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you

Have people been around millions of years testing the existence of God?

oh, great. evolutionists. how do you know it wasn't a chicken. you weren't there when God made chickens. i'll ask Adam when I get to Heaven and you guys are...
I know it wasn't a chicken because chickens aren't found all the way through the fossil record. And when we're both dead, we'll just be rotting in the ground. Luckily for you you won't exist to be disappointed.

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you
you can not proove it with "god"

I didn't ask for a reason god exists. I don't beleive that any gods exist. It would be like asking the reason bigfoot exists.
You didn't, indeed. *grin*

Oh, I’m sure that some other critters are nearing sentiency...


ok, just because monkeys can use sticks to rustle up some termites does not mean they are nearing sentiency. but heck, they would make some funny commercials.

Have people been around millions of years testing the existence of God?


no, only about 6,500 years. a little less, maybe.

no, only about 6,500 years. a little less, maybe.

But for over 2/3 of that time God was never even mentioned outside of Judaism. What is to say that the "pagan" gods do not exist?

You didn't, indeed. *grin*

he had a point.if not he did lay an egg

ok, well you go visit them stars with YOUR OWN tax dollars
But you see, if you're the one placing the bet against me then you're the one who has to pony up the dough to prove me wrong if you want your *looks in wallet* $10 CDN and $2 USD.

what, the things like stickand rock "gods"? yeah, i real sure a leaf could create a whole universe

ok, just because monkeys can use sticks to rustle up some termites does not mean they are nearing sentiency. but heck, they would make some funny commercials.
You, sir know fuck-all as you continue to demonstrate.

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you
We know evolution isn't a fable because all of the available evidence points to evolution having occured. Plus predictions made on the basis of evolution have panned out.

what, the things like stickand rock "gods"? yeah, i real sure a leaf could create a whole universe

don't think this tread is

what, the things like stickand rock "gods"? yeah, i real sure a leaf could create a whole universe

What of the gods of Greece and Rome?

They were definitely not sticks or rocks. Plus, a leaf is part of nature, which could then linked to a God of Nature, and from there to the higher Gods/Goddesses who actually created the universe.

he had a point.if not he did lay an egg
A very good point, yes.

ok, just because monkeys can use sticks to rustle up some termites does not mean they are nearing sentiency. but heck, they would make some funny commercials.
How about the fact that some apes display empathy and ethics?

But you see, if you're the one placing the bet against me then you're the one who has to pony up the dough to prove me wrong if you want your *looks in wallet* $10 CDN and $2 USD.


oh, i'm not bettin money against you. you do realize what's on the line for me is your soul. i don't want anyone, no matter how idiotic or confused they may be, to rot in hell for eternity

what, the things like stickand rock "gods"? yeah, i real sure a leaf could create a whole universe
Hindhuism is older than judaism. As is Zoroastrianism.

For some time the people who were the ancestors to the jewish people were quite polytheistic. Hell, El is one of the Elohim, a race of gods... the chief god, actually.

You, sir know fuck-all as you continue to demonstrate.

they know empathy
edited(wrong quote)

Take your pick from th following

www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm)

no, only about 6,500 years. a little less, maybe.
Tens of thousands of years as I recall. Longer if you consider other hominids human.

oh, i'm not bettin money against you. you do realize what's on the line for me is your soul. i don't want anyone, no matter how idiotic or confused they may be, to rot in hell for eternity
Don't worry, I won't.

I'm hoping for reincarnation, 80 years or so is far too short to spend on such an interesting planet.

i would say there is not a god, and the reason is the theories of evolution and the big bang logically make more sense than creationism (and indeed the idea of an all-powerful supreme being); and without faith all i have to go on is logic & rational thought. it is not, however, my place to tell others what to believe, thats just my opinion

are they really seperate?

The big bang states that everything comes from nothingness. Physics also states that matter cannot be created nor distroyed.

Evolution states that the first living cell came to be when a lightning bolt struck the water in an atmosphere where ammonia is the prime element and yet ammonia does not create enough static energy to create lightning.

so what better to break the laws of physics then the almighty one?

But you see, if you're the one placing the bet against me then you're the one who has to pony up the dough to prove me wrong if you want your *looks in wallet* $10 CDN and $2 USD.



no, not really. even if you're an idiot, which i don't know for sure, i don't want you(or anyone else on this thread)to rot in hell forever

oh, i'm not bettin money against you. you do realize what's on the line for me is your soul. i don't want anyone, no matter how idiotic or confused they may be, to rot in hell for eternity

How are our souls on the line? I live a generally moral life and respect others, so I should be rewarded by my deity regardless of belief. Anyway, why are there multiple religions if there is only one true one?

no, not really. even if you're an idiot, which i don't know for sure, i don't want you(or anyone else on this thread)to rot in hell forever
Also, if anyone here is an idiot...

Nah, your level is too low to sink to.

A very good point, yes.

that's call sarcasm,but you are welcome

How are our souls on the line? I live a generally moral life and respect others, so I should be rewarded by my deity regardless of belief. Anyway, why are there multiple religions if there is only one true one?


your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell

But again, why do other religions exist?

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell

welcome to hell brother/sister

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell
Hahaha.

I thought that puppets spouting this kind of crap were forbidden, we know what happened with Jesussaves...

And if you are serious.... then as far as I'm concerned, hell would be an eternity spent with the likes of you.

The short answers today i think.

are they really seperate?

The big bang states that everything comes from nothingness.


No it doesnt. and...

Evolution states that the first living cell came to be when a lightning bolt struck the water in an atmosphere where ammonia is the prime element and yet ammonia does not create enough static energy to create lightning.


No, just...no, the theory of evolution really doesnt state that.

that's where human sin comes in. people want a tangible god(reference asherah poles and buddhas). they want a god that is like them. people do not want to accept the fact that they will be judged, so they try to erase God from their mind

no replies in the last two minutes. what, now pondering whether this could be true?

that's where human sin comes in. people want a tangible god(reference asherah poles and buddhas). they want a god that is like them. people do not want to accept the fact that they will be judged, so they try to erase God from their mind

so you will burn people because they are/don't think like you are?

The short answers today i think.



No it doesnt. and...


No, just...no, the theory of evolution really doesnt state that.

I have been studying theoretical physics for years and all the top physicists seem to agree yes ... yes they do (but you know your basic crash course in physics may be more advanced then them)

so you will burn people because they are/don't think like you are?


i wouldn't burn em. i would just try to tell them the truth and try to get them to realize that it is true.

i wouldn't burn em. i would just try to tell them the truth and try to get them to realize that it is true.
what thuth yours or mine?

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell
And what are you basing that on? Do you have any independant confirmation that such an event will happen? I can say that if you do beleive in Jesus you will spend eternity being sodomized by demons who's genetalia are composed of red hot barbed baseball bats.

i wouldn't burn em. i would just try to tell them the truth and try to get them to realize that it is true.

Why are yours true while others' aren't?

so you will burn people because they are/don't think like you are?


also this is an example...it says nowhere in the Ten Commandments "Go preach to everyone", it says don't kill. and just saying, but, I don't use say this in conjuction with catholicism

what thuth yours or mine?


neither. just God's truth

i belive in god and the big bang states that everything came from energy not nothing


for some realy interesting views on god read


angels and deamons
and The da vinci code

And what are you basing that on? Do you have any independant confirmation that such an event will happen? I can say that if you do beleive in Jesus you will spend eternity being sodomized by demons who's genetalia are composed of red hot barbed baseball bats.


ok, now you're saying that demons exist. where do they come from, then?

neither. just God's truth
God told me he wants you to turn gay. It's true. Question me and you will burn.

Why are yours true while others' aren't?
Putting on hold temporarily the question of whether the claims of Christianity are true, do you believe there IS such a thing as absolute, objective truth, independent of observers and how people feel about it?

neither. just God's truth

Another time: If your truth is the only one, why are there so many different religions today?

ok, now you're saying that demons exist. where do they come from, then?
The same place as god. From the human imagination.

your souls are on the line, because one day you will be judged before the Almight One, and if you don't got Jesus, you don't got nothing but a one-way ticket to hell

Well thank you, oh perfect one...

Really, I think its clear that you have no place telling others what to beleive. Most christians are under this false impression that they have a right to push others around spiratually, but it isn't true at all. I have chosen to risk rotting in hell at the hands of "God". I know what you think the cost is, and I dissagree. I don't want my "soul" "saved" because I don't beleive that I have one. Preach all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that all you are doing is creating resentment, which isn't helping your god at all now is it?

neither. just God's truth

but you believe in it ,so it become yours,isn't it?

i belive in god and the big bang states that everything came from energy not nothing


for some realy interesting views on god read


angels and deamons
and The da vinci code

you are right the matter did come from energy and that energy is believed to be god

Putting on hold temporarily the question of whether the claims of Christianity are true, do you believe there IS such a thing as absolute, objective truth, independent of observers and how people feel about it?

No, because I have a more or less polytheistic belief and I can fit others in without any problem, because in my opinion it is possible that all of the gods of human history exist.

The same place as god. From the human imagination.


so why do you use it as a referenece?

I have been studying theoretical physics for years and all the top physicists seem to agree yes ... yes they do (but you know your basic crash course in physics may be more advanced then them)

Why does everyone assume i know nothing? I do have a degree in physics you know. The big bang theory does not state anything about the universe before it banged. It is a theory about how it started, not how that state came to be. There are various hypotheses about what was before the big bang but at the moment they dont have a lot of evidence behind them.

I know there is a god, because I am him. Its very convienient actually. I don't have to waste time going to church to pray to myself. The prayers can get annoying, but I can tune them out. By the way, all that crap about hating gay people got in the bible by mistake. I was just mad about that cuz some gay guy kept hitting on me. It was just a bad day. And guess what? No matter what the voice in your head says, I am not talking to you. So don't kill your wife.

















Offended anyone yet? Good. Get over it. Cuz my being god is just about as likely as Jesus being god.

so why do you use it as a referenece?
You made an unsupported assertion based on an imaginary being, so I countered it with an unsupported assertion based on another immaginary being. Have fun being sodomized by demons, beleiver.

You made an unsupported assertion based on an imaginary being, so I countered it with an unsupported assertion based on another immaginary being. Have fun being sodomized by demons, beleiver.

I think Pan needs to pay them a visit. They could use some sex and drinking.

a questuion for all.
do you believe in Ulysses odyssey?

No, because I have a more or less polytheistic belief and I can fit others in without any problem, because in my opinion it is possible that all of the gods of human history exist.
I think you misunderstand me.
I'm not even supporting monotheism at this point. I'm just asking you what you believe about the nature of truth and existence.
Do you believe that the universe, the total state of existence, that each of us inhabit is determined by what we believe about it, or do you believe that the nature of things is independent of our beliefs? Or something else?

a questuion for all.
do you believe in Ulysses odyssey?
Sure I do. The places mentioned actually existed. That proves that the odessy was true. Ulysses did go through all that crap, including being held prisoner by a cyclops.

a questuion for all.
do you believe in Ulysses odyssey?

Yes and no. I think that a journey did occur, and beyond that I can't be 100% sure. Still, I wish, (gods don't I wish) that the mythological aspects were 100% true as well! :)

Sure I do. The places mentioned actually existed. That proves that the odessy was true. Ulysses did go through all that crap, including being held prisoner by a cyclops.

welcome to the club.lol

do we need fantaisy to be ourselves?

Do you believe that the universe, the total state of existence, that each of us inhabit is determined by what we believe about it, or do you believe that the nature of things is independent of our beliefs? Or something else?

I think it is both. There is undoubtedly a paranormal aspect beyond the scope of human belief that we cannot begin to comprehend, and yet at the same time there is a portion of our world that is determined by us, simply because we have to believe in it for it to happen.

no replies in the last two minutes. what, now pondering whether this could be true?
Bored with the lack of compotence on the theistic side of the debate is more like it.

Why does everyone assume i know nothing? I do have a degree in physics you know. The big bang theory does not state anything about the universe before it banged. It is a theory about how it started, not how that state came to be. There are various hypotheses about what was before the big bang but at the moment they dont have a lot of evidence behind them.

Theories grow and become a complete picture. As the evidence comes into play we slowly rewind the universe to see what actually happened then. the theory at one time only stated what happened in the minutes afterward but now it speculates that the universe was created from nothing physical and just a burst of energy

Bored with the lack of compotence on the theistic side of the debate is more like it.

That poster hasn't given us any replies in 2+ minutes... I wonder if what we said is true? ;)

wow. i left for like ten minutes and we're already way off topic. so, let's repeat the question: do you believe in God?

I think it is both. There is undoubtedly a paranormal aspect beyond the scope of human belief that we cannot begin to comprehend, and yet at the same time there is a portion of our world that is determined by us, simply because we have to believe in it for it to happen.
Can you describe to me, on some level, your understanding of the parts of existence that carry on without our affecting them, and the parts that we have direct impact on?

oh, yes, i am back everyone. mwahahahahaha

wow. i left for like ten minutes and we're already way off topic. so, let's repeat the question: do you believe in God?

wat is god?

Theories grow and become a complete picture. As the evidence comes into play we slowly rewind the universe to see what actually happened then. the theory at one time only stated what happened in the minutes afterward but now it speculates that the universe was created from nothing physical and just a burst of energy

linky?

wat is god?


oh, hahaha very funny. well, when you die, you'll find out.

oh, hahaha very funny. well, when you die, you'll find out.

what is god?

Can you describe to me, on some level, your understanding of the parts of existence that carry on without our affecting them, and the parts that we have direct impact on?

No, because in the end I couldn't prove if either was true or not. Still, I feel that some things are beyond the scope of our ability to understand at this point in time and so should be considered as unaffected by belief, in theory. Time may prove differently however.

I managed to get through about half of this thread. I only read that much because of the respect I have for folks like Ffc and for those in other threads (see "Roe v Wade Destroyed American Politics") who can argue a very contentious topic without resorting to gainsaying or circular arguments or claiming that one or the other side is irrational. Alas, I was not to be so rewarded in this thread.

There really is no point in arguing the existence of God because faith, by its very definition, needs no proof. My only question is why either side argues from a standpoint of conversion. Atheists are never going to convince deists that they're wrong (that kind of apostasy usually happens on its own over time, anyway), and atheists only look like foolish bullies when they try. Neither side has proof -- you can cry evolution and the fossil record all you want, but it doesn't prove that God doesn't exist.

Similarly, atheists will never convert to religion when the deists are beating them over the head with a book of dubious origin, purpose and provenance (that kind of revelation usually happens on its own over time, anyway).

The very least you can do is attempt to remain civil in the face of all the arguments that are so repugnant to your sensibilities that you want to scream. Why? Because I can guarantee you that the person you're arguing with feels the same frustration that you do...and nobody wants to hear a bunch of metaphysical caterwauling (well, maybe Nietzsche, but he's dead now and, ironically, now knows far better than any of us the answer to this debate).

Science and Religion are both faiths. Science believes that everything can be explained with enough study and enough logic, and can back it up with selected research. Religion believes that everything is a form of God's will and can back it up with selected passages from this book or that prophet. It's a wash, folks.

What I'd sincerely like to see in a thread like this is for people to describe, in their own experience and in positive, as opposed to negation of the supposed opposite, terms, what led them to where they are now with regard to cosmology and metaphysics.

As for me, if you're curious (which by now you're likely not, given how long I've ranted), I was baptized Episcopalian and allowed to make up my own mind after six years of semi-compulsive church attendance. Being the kid I was, I chose to take Sunday for myself. As an adolescent, I chose to make my default atheism active and militant. I went out of my way to argue God and evolution and abortion and everything else, but I realized I was basically an intellectual bully. In my 20s, I became an agnostic. Still pissed at all the coercion I saw from religious groups trying to make everyone think like them, but realizing that, as I met more an more people of genuine faith, that the caricature that's commonplace is far from the reality. I met more and more Christians and Mormons and whatnot who were really, really intelligent, but who had faith to guide and comfort them when their intelligence could not. I figured that if people smarter than me had faith, there must be something to it -- even if all it meant was not being constantly depressed at the general state of the world and of my position in it. Now, in my 30s, I find myself a proponent of the Divine. Not a singular supreme being, per se but a force -- something responsible for my reaction to music, art, poetry, and even the elegance of science.

The way I like to put it now is that I believe in the Divine, but I will never claim to have its phone number. So things like prayer and individual God interventions are still past my ability and desire to believe. It just seems to me that if God's Will, as it's championed by the zealots and evangelists, is real, and when we pray for something not in His Will and therefore do not get our prayer answered, and that works out to about 50% of the time -- what's the point in asking at all? Why not just trust? Thankfulness is one thing, favors are quite another. Do I still find myself talking to the Divine when nothing else comforts me? Yes. Do I think an all-knowing Man In The Clouds actually receives this wish? No. But I do believe that thoughts held in mind produce after their kind, and it comforts me to wish well myself and my family and friends and those with whom I sympathize.

And in the end, comfort is what the vast majority are seeking from God, in one form or another. So I would ask the atheists, what's so illogical about that? I would ask the zealots, why beat someone over the head with what comforts you when you know that everyone is utterly different? If we're all unique, our faiths should be, too.

So there it is, folks. It isn't an argument, it's an individual choice. Who's to say whose choice is the more valid, when it all comes down to what lets you sleep at night?

Shade and Sweet Water,

NdL

oh, hahaha very funny. well, when you die, you'll find out.

So the so-called "loving" God would cast me down in to Hell to suffer for eternity regardless of my morality and personal behavior on this Earth simply because I didn't believe that Jesus Christ is God. What of the Jews, God's "chosen people" in that case?

oh, hahaha very funny. well, when you die, you'll find out.
Are we to assume that you don't even know what it is that you beleive in? Or perhaps you're reluctant to define it because you might inadvertantly make it falsifiable, and then we'll prove you wrong.

what is god?

what is god?

In my opinion: Pan, Zeus, Poseidon, Ares.... :)

oh, now you ponder your fate?

linky?

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/IUP/Big_Bang_Primer.html

The big bang theory states that at some time in the distant past there was nothing. A process known as vacuum fluctuation created what astrophysicists call a singularity. From that singularity, which was about the size of a dime, our Universe was born.

oh, now you ponder your fate?

I always have done so. That's why I believe the way I do.

oh, now you ponder your fate?

what is your fate?

This thread should have included a poll.

Asking if God exists is similar to asking if gravity exists. Nobody has actually seen gravity, but we all have seens its effects. I don't understand how people can pay attention to what's going on around them and not believe in God. Many otherwise observant, wise, educated people profess a lack of belief in God simply because they aren't comfortable with anything that they don't understand. One cannot fit God into a box, and as a result, many people choose not to see God.

Even if you don't believe in God, God still believes in you.

oh, now you ponder your fate?
I shall dwell for eternity in a paradise of hot women and cold beer. Groovy.

Again .what is god?

I shall dwell for eternity in a paradise of hot women and cold beer. Groovy.

Sounds good to me! :cool:

This thread should have included a poll.

Asking if God exists is similar to asking if gravity exists. Nobody has actually seen gravity, but we all have seens its effects. I don't understand how people can pay attention to what's going on around them and not believe in God. Many otherwise observant, wise, educated people profess a lack of belief in God simply because they aren't comfortable with anything that they don't understand. One cannot fit God into a box, and as a result, many people choose not to see God.

Even if you don't believe in God, God still believes in you.

now that is bullshit

Are we to assume that you don't even know what it is that you beleive in? Or perhaps you're reluctant to define it because you might inadvertantly make it falsifiable, and then we'll prove you wrong.


no, i'm just saving breath. as intangelon said, i'm never going to convince you, and you're never going to convince me, so i think i'll just sit here and argue for the heck of it now.

the idea of just one all powerfull all knowing supreme creator is just bull to me. so no, i dont believe in a god

how do you know evolution isn't a man made fable? oh wait...IT IS!!!! have people been around millions of years testing animals? NO!!! answer me back with a sensible and proven answer, and i'll answer you
We can say the exact same thing about your claims for God. Give us 'a sensible and proven answer'.

This thread should have included a poll.

Asking if God exists is similar to asking if gravity exists. Nobody has actually seen gravity, but we all have seens its effects. I don't understand how people can pay attention to what's going on around them and not believe in God. Many otherwise observant, wise, educated people profess a lack of belief in God simply because they aren't comfortable with anything that they don't understand. One cannot fit God into a box, and as a result, many people choose not to see God.

Even if you don't believe in God, God still believes in you.
Bullshit on your whole post. Gravity is clearly defined, and easily measured. God is neither. All of the "evidence" presented for god boils down to such idiocy as "You don't know where the universe came from, therefore god made it". Such statements are as stupid as "A kid was kidnapped, raped and killed. Nobody knows who did it, therefore I blame Jesus".

now that is bullshit


maybe to you. i still hope you'll see the truth someday.

Bullshit on your whole post. Gravity is clearly defined, and easily measured. God is neither. All of the "evidence" presented for god boils down to such idiocy as "You don't know where the universe came from, therefore god made it". Such statements are as stupid as "A kid was kidnapped, raped and killed. Nobody knows who did it, therefore I blame Jesus".

amen brother

Again .what is god?

god is a pure energy that lives within everything

maybe to you. i still hope you'll see the truth someday.

I hope you do too.

See I can be patronising as well!

maybe to you. i still hope you'll see the truth someday.
that is even more bullshitt.live and see

no, i'm just saving breath. as intangelon said, i'm never going to convince you, and you're never going to convince me, so i think i'll just sit here and argue for the heck of it now.
Unlike you, I've actually searched for god, and I'm still open to real evidence. You've made your mind up, and it appears you haven't even thought much about your decision.

We can say the exact same thing about your claims for God. Give us 'a sensible and proven answer'.

well, how about you pick up a Bible, and try reading it and interpreting it, without skewing it. like i said, i'm not wasting any more time explaining myself

god is a pure energy that lives within everything

what is pure energy?you? me? us? or him?

god is a pure energy that lives within everything


new age thinker, eh?

god is a pure energy that lives within everything
Energy can be measured. It's effects can be observed. Build me a god energy detector please.

maybe to you. i still hope you'll see the truth someday.

Pan be with you!

Bullshit on your whole post. Gravity is clearly defined, and easily measured. God is neither. All of the "evidence" presented for god boils down to such idiocy as "You don't know where the universe came from, therefore god made it". Such statements are as stupid as "A kid was kidnapped, raped and killed. Nobody knows who did it, therefore I blame Jesus".

if jesus and the kid were the only two things in existance at the time then yes yes it is exactly the same ... minus the raping

i do belive in something mystical, not sure what.
im interested in religion, iv gone into catholic and protestant churchs, read books bout buddhism and bout some more.
its all about moral, forces controling you and nature etc, its true, how could be possible for something to exist without such force? christian god or not, there is something,and the trueth is out there.

well, how about you pick up a Bible, and try reading it and interpreting it, without skewing it. like i said, i'm not wasting any more time explaining myself
don't even try to explain god anymore :upyours:

Energy can be measured. It's effects can be observed. Build me a god energy detector please.


impossible. i believe God is everywhere, even inside us if we've accepted him, but he's not tangible, as energy is. well, you can't touch energy, but you can harvest and use it

if jesus and the kid were the only two things in existance at the time then yes yes it is exactly the same ... minus the raping
Oh, if Jesus and the kid were the only beings around at the time you'd think the kid raped himself? How is that possible?

How do you know there wasn't anybody with god at the time the universe was made? Maybe Mrs. God. How do you know that god was even there?

what is pure energy?you? me? us? or him?

break matter into its most basic form and then break it down agian and you get pure energy and nothing more that is what god is

i do belive in something mystical, not sure what.
im interested in religion, iv gone into catholic and protestant churchs, read books bout buddhism and bout some more.
its all about moral, forces controling you and nature etc, its true, how could be possible for something to exist without such force? christian god or not, there is something,and the trueth is out there.


i hope you find what you're looking for, and i even more hope that you find it's Jesus Christ almighty

How do you know there wasn't anybody with god at the time the universe was made? Maybe Mrs. God. How do you know that god was even there?

That is why I like polytheism.

This thread should have included a poll.

Asking if God exists is similar to asking if gravity exists. Nobody has actually seen gravity, but we all have seens its effects. I don't understand how people can pay attention to what's going on around them and not believe in God. Many otherwise observant, wise, educated people profess a lack of belief in God simply because they aren't comfortable with anything that they don't understand. One cannot fit God into a box, and as a result, many people choose not to see God.

Even if you don't believe in God, God still believes in you.
Well, if you can show some objective evidence for the existance of God in the same way as you can for gravity, then yes. Otherwise, no.