NationStates Jolt Archive

Let me be blunt: all of you who whine about homosexuality not being a choice are flat out wrong. And so are the heterosexuals. Why? Allow me to make a statement that will shock you, titillate you, and challenge everything you have ever believed...

Sexuality is a choice.

That's right, you can read it again. Go ahead. I'll wait. Done? Good.

The fact is, unlike what the media will constantly try to tell you, with the incessant cries of "Do it!" and constant flood of sexual propaganda, you don't have to have sex.\ Humanity has free will. You may have sexual impulses, but the fact is, if you still have a fully functioning brain, you can decide to have sex or not have sex. What's more, you can decide who you can have it with. You can go "do" a guy, a girl, even a freakin' beaver if you so desire.

Now, some of you may argue that you are not attracted to a certain sex. But the fact is, it's only perception, and perceptions can be controlled. For example, I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.

So in short, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and sexuality in general is a choice.

Have any proof?

Can you provide conclusive proof of this, or are you simply going to provide rhetoric?

Asexual eh? Oh wait, you had that thread where you said people should stop fucking. Eh. People will believe wha they want. Ill stick to my opinion that Homosexuality is a disease/mental disorder.

I can't be sure. It seems that given the discrepancy in the time of "sexuality awareness" that orientation is not entirely a choice nor a genetic trait. Still, there is a choice factor, but I feel that it is influenced by earlier genetic factors.

who you have sex with does not define your sexuality

Myself. I'm not talking basic urges, but about the fact that you can control and manipulate your actions. Nobody is forcing you to have sex.

I would agree that homosexual and heterosexual behavior is a choice. But homo or hetero attraction is not. There is a difference IMHO.

Myself. I'm not talking basic urges, but about the fact that you can control and manipulate your actions. Nobody is forcing you to have sex.
I should hope people will have sex or everyone would die within a hundred years or so... Besides it feels goooood.

Myself. I'm not talking basic urges, but about the fact that you can control and manipulate your actions. Nobody is forcing you to have sex.
One person being able to change their sexuality is nowhere near proof that all sexuality is a choice.
On top of the fact that sexual orientation isn't just having sex. I don't have sex, yet I am quite definately a lesbian.
You are right that sexual behaviour is a chocie, but what you've said doesn't have a great deal to do with the orientation itself.

I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.

What a shitty accomplishment. :headbang:

What a shitty accomplishment. :headbang:

Agreed.

What a shitty accomplishment. :headbang:

Unless you're in China. The eunuchs had it good! Plus, they buried them with their genitals when they died.

I'd like to see some facts.

Not just the yammerings of a sexually frustrated 12 year old on the internet. Just because you can't get any doesn't mean that they're choosing to be gay.

I agree with everything they said. You have a choice to do what you want, thats why they call it free choice. If we were all hetero what fun would that be? Plus, some of the guys that say its bad usually watch lesbian porn anyway.

Unless you're in China. The eunuchs had it good! Plus, they buried them with their genitals when they died.

Of course if you never had them removed you would be buried with them anyways...

I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.
Oh come on you have to fuck sometime or another, otherwise if you're a guy, DSB.

Oh course if you never had them removed you would be buried with them anyways...

Yeah, but you got the title "the Three Jeweled Eunuch"!

Unless you're in China. The eunuchs had it good! Plus, they buried them with their genitals when they died.

I thought most people who weren't eunuchs got buried with their genitals, too.

I thought most people who weren't eunuchs got buried with their genitals, too.
Beat you to it.

I thought most people who weren't eunuchs got buried with their genitals, too.

Unless you're Benito Mussolini! :p

Asexual eh? Oh wait, you had that thread where you said people should stop fucking. Eh. People will believe wha they want. Ill stick to my opinion that Homosexuality is a disease/mental disorder.
actually, he didn't start that thread, that was New Anthrus, at least if he isn't a puppet of New Anthrus

I agree with everything they said. You have a choice to do what you want, thats why they call it free choice. If we were all hetero what fun would that be? Plus, some of the guys that say its bad usually watch lesbian porn anyway.
Lesbian porno turns me off. I don't know why, it just does...

actually, he didn't start that thread, that was New Anthrus, at least if he isn't a puppet of New Anthrus

Eh, so shoot me. :/

Eh, so shoot me. :/
*BANG!*

Let me be blunt: all of you who whine about homosexuality not being a choice are flat out wrong.

Two things wrong here:

1] If you were to have sex, who would it be with? Male or Female? Just because you're not having sex doesn't mean you're not hetero or homo, you're just celibate. Sex does not sexuality make.

2] We'll need a control group for the experiment. When you wake up tomorrow, I want you to choose to be homosexual. I want you to go out and actively seek buttsaiks from large, well hung men and enjoy every moment of it. I want you to seek strength and masculinity in a life partner. I want you to *choose* to be homosexual. If you can't, I understand, but it's important to the scientific method that you give it the old college try.

We will await the results.

I didn't start that thread. Ah, and the fact is, we have no idea, as of yet, what controls people's initial desires. We don't know if its environmental, a subconscious choice, genes, etc. But the fact is, with enough will power, you can determine your sexuality. After all, notice how normally straight people who would puke at the sight of gay sex suddenly become gay in prison?

Oh, and I'm not asexual because I "can't get any." I find sex repulsive, love wasteful and pointless, etc.

And I'm most definitely not 12.

*BANG!*

*ka-ping*

OK, let's just say for a second that who you are sexually attrected to is a choice [which it obviously isn't considering you had to TRAIN yourself to be anti-sexual or whatever you term for not getting any is]. Even, if it is a choice, what is the problem? If people choose to have sex with other consenting members of the same sex, what in the blue hell is wrong with that?

i'm sorry but is there actually any point in this topic ..... at all?

I didn't start that thread. Ah, and the fact is, we have no idea, as of yet, what controls people's initial desires. We don't know if its environmental, a subconscious choice, genes, etc. But the fact is, with enough will power, you can determine your sexuality. After all, notice how normally straight people who would puke at the sight of gay sex suddenly become gay in prison?

Oh, and I'm not asexual because I "can't get any." I find sex repulsive, love wasteful and pointless, etc.

And I'm most definitely not 12.

Yes, but do you masterbate?

i'm sorry but is there actually any point in this topic ..... at all?
Well, there was originally.

i'm sorry but is there actually any point in this topic ..... at all?

Not in this particular universe, but in bizarro world it's all the rage.

Asexual eh? Oh wait, you had that thread where you said people should stop fucking. Eh. People will believe wha they want. Ill stick to my opinion that Homosexuality is a disease/mental disorder.

Stop living in the pre-1970 age, please, and consult any medical book written after then, please.

Tell you what. I'll call in gay tomorrow. Let's see if that'll be an acceptable reason for sick-leave.

Well, there was originally.

Divergence is great. It means I can jump in at any time without reading earlier pages. :)

I'll call in gay tomorrow.

Classic! :D

Two things wrong here:

1] If you were to have sex, who would it be with? Male or Female? Just because you're not having sex doesn't mean you're not hetero or homo, you're just celibate. Sex does not sexuality make.

2] We'll need a control group for the experiment. When you wake up tomorrow, I want you to choose to be homosexual. I want you to go out and actively seek buttsaiks from large, well hung men and enjoy every moment of it. I want you to seek strength and masculinity in a life partner. I want you to *choose* to be homosexual. If you can't, I understand, but it's important to the scientific method that you give it the old college try.

We will await the results.
1. No one. Ever. Sex disgusts the hell out of me.
2. I could very well and go out and have "buttsaiks" (well, actually I couldn't, seeing as how I'm under 18) with a man, or for that matter, a woman. I don't want to, seeing as how I like being asexual. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with choosing one sexuality over another---It's just that I want people to realize that they could change it.

After all, notice how normally straight people who would puke at the sight of gay sex suddenly become gay in prison?

They don't.

And I'm most definitely not 12.

Stop acting like it, then.

Yes, but do you masterbate?
Hell no! What part of "anti-sexual/asexual" ddi you miss?

Tell you what. I'll call in gay tomorrow. Let's see if that'll be an acceptable reason for sick-leave.

I'd like to hear the reply to that! :)

While any sort of sexual preference or even preference in general can be a choice, there are definitely people who start out as homosexual or heterosexual. That doesn't mean it can't be a choice, but it does mean that in many cases (I heard somewhere more in gays then lesbians) it isn't.

As for those who say its never a choice, you're wrong. It takes a while, but the human mind can be trained to be turned on by just about anything. I bet people that do internet porn are turned on by the sound a computer makes as it starts up. Such sorts of things happen.

Let me be blunt: all of you who whine about homosexuality not being a choice are flat out wrong. And so are the heterosexuals. Why? Allow me to make a statement that will shock you, titillate you, and challenge everything you have ever believed...

Sexuality is a choice.

That's right, you can read it again. Go ahead. I'll wait. Done? Good.

The fact is, unlike what the media will constantly try to tell you, with the incessant cries of "Do it!" and constant flood of sexual propaganda, you don't have to have sex.\ Humanity has free will. You may have sexual impulses, but the fact is, if you still have a fully functioning brain, you can decide to have sex or not have sex. What's more, you can decide who you can have it with. You can go "do" a guy, a girl, even a freakin' beaver if you so desire.

Now, some of you may argue that you are not attracted to a certain sex. But the fact is, it's only perception, and perceptions can be controlled. For example, I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.

So in short, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and sexuality in general is a choice.
so what youre saying is....

that you could have hot steamy incredibly orgasmic sex with a man if you decided to? youve thought about it, imagined it, dreamt about it, and you know that its only your WILL that keeps you from going gay right now?

Stop living in the pre-1970 age, please, and consult any medical book written after then, please.

Tell you what. I'll call in gay tomorrow. Let's see if that'll be an acceptable reason for sick-leave.

Um, no. Like I said, I consider it to be a disease, or psycological disorder. Its nothing to be ashamed of, why would you be ashamed if you had cancer? Being sick is no reason to hate someone... its not like they can help it.

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.

Hell no! What part of "anti-sexual/asexual" ddi you miss?

All of it. You just dont make sense...

They don't.


They don't? Oh really? You do know that it's fairly well established that homosexuality is almost a norm in many same-sex prisons? Desperate men(and women) do desperate things...

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.

I like to have sex, but don't want to have kids at any time for any reason.

1. No one. Ever. Sex disgusts the hell out of me.
2. I could very well and go out and have "buttsaiks" (well, actually I couldn't, seeing as how I'm under 18) with a man, or for that matter, a woman. I don't want to, seeing as how I like being asexual. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with choosing one sexuality over another---It's just that I want people to realize that they could change it.
Homosexuals have been forced to undergo "cures" like that. What happened was that they either commited suicide, or abstained from homo sex because they were bisexual. Read about it. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_repar.htm)

Um, no. Like I said, I consider it to be a disease, or psycological disorder. Its nothing to be ashamed of, why would you be ashamed if you had cancer? Being sick is no reason to hate someone... its not like they can help it.

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.
I'm straight, well Monday through Friday, and I do not want kids currently, but I AM insane that is known to anyone who knows me.

so what youre saying is....

that you could have hot steamy incredibly orgasmic sex with a man if you decided to? youve thought about it, imagined it, dreamt about it, and you know that its only your WILL that keeps you from going gay right now?
No, I don't want to. I don't want to have sex at all. But I very well could, if I made my mind up to do it. The power of the human will is strong; some people have had stigmatism simply through sheer will.

I like to have sex, but don't want to have kids at any time for any reason.
*sigh* But the reason why we evolved/were created to enjoy sex was that it would give us a desire to reproduce and have offspring. In all honesty, if sex didnt feel good would you do it?

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.

Sperm doesn't dry up because you're gay. Eggs don't vanish from the ovaries.

Gay people procreate all the time.

No, I don't want to. I don't want to have sex at all. But I very well could, if I made my mind up to do it. The power of the human will is strong; some people have had stigmatism simply through sheer will.
....you're actually serious aren't you? You don't want sex?! You must have more will-power than anyone else here.

Someone who won't have sex shouldn't tell people who do need it how to go about their business. QED.

Homosexuals have been forced to undergo "cures" like that. What happened was that they either commited suicide, or abstained from homo sex because they were bisexual. Read about it. (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_repar.htm)
Ah, because they don't want to change it. Not really. Societal pressures aside, they do desire people of the same sex. But they, like heterosexuals, can not only abstain from it (nobody's holding a gun to your head to have sex, after all) but change it. Human will is very, very, very strong.

*sigh* But the reason why we evolved/were created to enjoy sex was that it would give us a desire to reproduce and have offspring. In all honesty, if sex didnt feel good would you do it?

The desire to reproduce does not come from the enjoyment of sex, but rather a more primitive need to carry on the gene pool. Very few species on the planet enjoy sex, but all species do it in one form or another.

Sex, sexuality, and procreation are all independent of each other.

Um, no. Like I said, I consider it to be a disease, or psycological disorder. Its nothing to be ashamed of, why would you be ashamed if you had cancer? Being sick is no reason to hate someone... its not like they can help it.

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.

It's illogical to have faith in a god that you can't prove exists. I suppose all those who believe in a supreme being simply have a mental disease?

*sigh* But the reason why we evolved/were created to enjoy sex was that it would give us a desire to reproduce and have offspring. In all honesty, if sex didnt feel good would you do it?

Hell no. Plus, that's why man developed contraceptives, to get out of that unpleasant procreation clause! :)

Sperm doesn't dry up because you're gay. Eggs don't vanish from the ovaries.

Gay people procreate all the time.

Are you thick? Heres a definition of the word since you obviously have no idea what it means.

pro·cre·ate v. pro·cre·at·ed, pro·cre·at·ing, pro·cre·ates:

1.To beget and conceive (offspring).
2.To produce or create; originate.

Now does having sex just for the fun of it fall under this definition? No, that goes for sraight sex with birth control, and gay sex.

....you're actually serious aren't you? You don't want sex?! You must have more will-power than anyone else here.
Yup. I never have wanted sex, don't want sex, and never will. I do have random hormonally triggered urges (My hormones are sadly, beyond my control) but my mind is pretty good at squashing them. Ah, and it also helps that I am horrifically ugly, stupid, and obnoxious. It's really a perfect bargain, you see. I desire no one, and no one desires me.

It's illogical to have faith in a god that you can't prove exists. I suppose all those who believe in a supreme being simply have a mental disease?

Yes, it is illogical to belive in something that cant be proven that exists. But of course we arent all Vulcans (Spock). If we were life would be pretty dull. But the truth of the matter is that humans are illogical creatures.

Um, no. Like I said, I consider it to be a disease, or psycological disorder. Its nothing to be ashamed of, why would you be ashamed if you had cancer? Being sick is no reason to hate someone... its not like they can help it.

You obviously have no idea what a disease is. Could you please care to explain the aetiology, symptomatology, pathology, treatment and epidemiology of it? Could you also explain it visavi a health theory, perhaps Boorse's or Nordenfeldt's. Then I would like to have your credentials that make you capable of drawing such a conclusion. I will accept an M.D., but would prefer a Ph.D. and some clinical experience.

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.

No, no need for flames. Your parading of your ignorance is quite enough.

They don't? Oh really? You do know that it's fairly well established that homosexuality is almost a norm in many same-sex prisons? Desperate men(and women) do desperate things...

Homosexual behaviour != homosexuality. Really, you seem to know very little about this subject. I can't say I'm surprised.

No, I don't want to. I don't want to have sex at all. But I very well could, if I made my mind up to do it. The power of the human will is strong; some people have had stigmatism simply through sheer will.
ya ya you dont WANT to because you have done something to your head to suppress your sex drive. i get that part

the part im wondering about is HOW you know that its a matter of choice to be gay. it seems to ME that if you think that gay people choose it then you think that YOU could choose it too. that you think that if you decided to be gay you could have hot steamy utterly orgasmic sex with a man. the kind of hot hot sex that only a truly gay man could have.

so is that what you think?

2. I could very well and go out and have "buttsaiks" (well, actually I couldn't, seeing as how I'm under 18) with a man, or for that matter, a woman. I don't want to, seeing as how I like being asexual. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with choosing one sexuality over another---It's just that I want people to realize that they could change it.
Ah, but it's not about being able to go out and have gay sex. Anybody could do that.
What it's about is the wanting to.
Could you make yourself want to?
Until you try, and succeed, your argument that all sexual orientation is a choice doesn't hold water.

Are you thick? Heres a definition of the word since you obviously have no idea what it means.

pro·cre·ate v. pro·cre·at·ed, pro·cre·at·ing, pro·cre·ates:

1.To beget and conceive (offspring).
2.To produce or create; originate.

Now does having sex just for the fun of it fall under this definition? No, that goes for sraight sex with birth control, and gay sex.

A gay man can produce sperm, which is then implanted into the egg of a gay woman and we thus have in vitro fertilisation and, hence, GAY PEOPLE CAN PROCREATE!

Oy gevalt ... so many mishugoyim in the world.

Are you thick? Heres a definition of the word since you obviously have no idea what it means.

pro·cre·ate v. pro·cre·at·ed, pro·cre·at·ing, pro·cre·ates:

1.To beget and conceive (offspring).
2.To produce or create; originate.

How is that something that gay people can't do? How do you explain that several of my gay friends have children?

You obviously have no idea what a disease is. Could you please care to explain the aetiology, symptomatology, pathology, treatment and epidmiology of it? Could you also explain it visavi a health theory, prehaps Boore's or Nordenfeldt. Then I would like to have your credentials that make you capable of drawing such a conclusion. I will accept an M.D., but would prefer a Ph.D. and some clinical experience.



No, no need for flames. Your parading of your ignorence is quite enough.

Cute. Just becuase I dont have any medical experience means I cant forumlate an opinion? And I could list sources out of my ass but would most likely be excused as biased, outdated, or all of the above. After all everyone here would agree that homosexuality as a disease theory fell out of popularity with most medical doctors in the first half of the 20th century.

Yes, it is illogical to belive in something that cant be proven that exists. But of course we arent all Vulcans (Spock). If we were life would be pretty dull. But the truth of the matter is that humans are illogical creatures.

So... if humans are illogical creatures... then all humans have a mental disease. Glad we cleared that up. :rolleyes:

So... if humans are illogical creatures... then all humans have a mental disease. Glad we cleared that up. :rolleyes:


Hrm...just for clarification...am I gay because I'm crazy or am I crazy because I'm gay? Answer that ! mwhahaha :eek:

Cute. Just becuase I dont have any medical experience means I cant forumlate an opinion?

Exactly! If you have no authority or knowledge to determine what a disease is, you cannot label something a disease. To think you can is being ignorant. The "opinion" that something is a disease is ludicrous without the wherewithal to prove and argue for it, and is as silly as someone proclaiming "blondness" to be a disease.


And I could list sources out of my ass but would most likely be excused as biased, outdated, or all of the above.

Exactly! Because they are just that. There is a crushingly overwhelming support in the medical community that homosexuality is as much a disease as heterosexuality is.

After all everyone here would agree that homosexuality as a disease theory fell out of popularity with most medical doctors in the first half of the 20th century.

It fell "out of popularity" because that stance did not stand to scientific review. That's how things work in medical science. Look up evidence based medicine, please.

Ah, but it's not about being able to go out and have gay sex. Anybody could do that.
What it's about is the wanting to.
Could you make yourself want to?
Until you try, and succeed, your argument that all sexual orientation is a choice doesn't hold water.
I've already managed to change myself from straight to asexual. I could make myself gay, but I honestly don't want to, because sexuality as a whole does not interest me. But the fact is, human tastes and beliefs are very malleable things. Being "prison gay" is a fine example. Mind you, I don't want this to turn into another gay vs nongay thread. I'm applying this to heterosexuals as well.

How is that something that gay people can't do? How do you explain that several of my gay friends have children?

Yes. Artificial insemination

A gay man can produce sperm, which is then implanted into the egg of a gay woman and we thus have in vitro fertilisation.

But it is the conventional view that to Procreate means to have acutal sexual intercourse, not just artificial insemination.

Hrm...just for clarification...am I gay because I'm crazy or am I crazy because I'm gay? Answer that ! mwhahaha :eek:

Oh you know ... a little from column A ... a little from column B ... a little of this, a little of that, a lot of dreams ... some ruby slippers and pixie dust with a sprinkling of Christmas magic. :D

Yup. I never have wanted sex, don't want sex, and never will. I do have random hormonally triggered urges (My hormones are sadly, beyond my control) but my mind is pretty good at squashing them. Ah, and it also helps that I am horrifically ugly, stupid, and obnoxious. It's really a perfect bargain, you see. I desire no one, and no one desires me.

I'm not going to argue your cause, point, or whatever the hell else you think you're doing here.

I'd just like to say:

Thank you for NOT reproducing so we don't have more people like you.

Homosexual behaviour != homosexuality. Really, you seem to know very little about this subject. I can't say I'm surprised.
Ahh, but wanting to engage in homosexual acts defines one as gay, doesn't it? If you want to engage in gay sex, isn't it pretty much guaranteed that you have chosen to be attracted to that gender?

But it is the conventional view that to Procreate means to have acutal sexual intercourse, not just artificial insemination.

No no no no no no no!

YOU gave the definition:

pro·cre·ate v. pro·cre·at·ed, pro·cre·at·ing, pro·cre·ates:

1.To beget and conceive (offspring).
2.To produce or create; originate.

Where, in that definition, is the word "intercourse"?

Yes. Artificial insemination

Actually, no. Very few of them did it that way, as it wasn't avaliable to them in Sweden through the medical system when they had their kids. Gays have had children all the time, even before IVF and other, modern methods came along.

Homosexuality is really not that big a hurdle to overcome if you want children, and heterosexuality is most certainly not necessary for knocking someone up, or getting knocked up.

Hrm...just for clarification...am I gay because I'm crazy or am I crazy because I'm gay? Answer that ! mwhahaha :eek:

I wouldn't worry too much about it and just accept both to be true, hehe... if that doesn't make sense, it's because I'm illogical like that ;)

So... if humans are illogical creatures... then all humans have a mental disease. Glad we cleared that up. :rolleyes:

I agree with this. And some of the worse diseases are evident on this very forum.

I'm not going to argue your cause, point, or whatever the hell else you think you're doing here.

I'd just like to say:

Thank you for NOT reproducing so we don't have more people like you.
No problem. But really, what have I done to you? I'm simply stating my beliefs that human willpower can overcome anything. I'm not forcing anything on you, or insulting you, or doing any harm.

Ahh, but wanting to engage in homosexual acts defines one as gay, doesn't it? If you want to engage in gay sex, isn't it pretty much guaranteed that you have chosen to be attracted to that gender?

Not necessarily. Bisexuals want to have both kinds of intercourse, and there are some people who may be somewhat interested in one sex but more so toward another.

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!

Oh you know ... a little from column A ... a little from column B ... a little of this, a little of that, a lot of dreams ... some ruby slippers and pixie dust with a sprinkling of Christmas magic. :D


:eek: How'd you know about the pixie dust :s *Is shocked, and amazed*

Actually, no. Very few of them did it that way, as it wasn't avaliable to them in Sweden through the medical system when they had their kids. Gays have had children all the time, even before IVF and other, modern methods came along.

Homosexuality is really not that big a hurdle to overcome if you want children, and heterosexuality is most certainly not necessary for knocking someone up, or getting knocked up.

Im sorry but that sounds really unessecary to have sex with someone who you dont want to have sex with just for a kid when you could go to another country or something to have a artificial insemination done.

Actually, no. Very few of them did it that way, as it wasn't avaliable to them in Sweden through the medical system when they had their kids. Gays have had children all the time, even before IVF and other, modern methods came along.

Homosexuality is really not that big a hurdle to overcome if you want children, and heterosexuality is most certainly not necessary for knocking someone up, or getting knocked up.
Hmmm? Wait, how do gays have kids without artificial insemination?

Yup. I never have wanted sex, don't want sex, and never will. I do have random hormonally triggered urges (My hormones are sadly, beyond my control) but my mind is pretty good at squashing them. Ah, and it also helps that I am horrifically ugly, stupid, and obnoxious. It's really a perfect bargain, you see. I desire no one, and no one desires me.

But aren't those urges what we're talking about? And aren't they in your case specifically heterosexual? And couldn't they just as easily be homosexual? So isn't there some genetic/hormonal component in there with all the self training?

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!
aww...look at the cute little troll

Hmmm? Wait, how do gays have kids without artificial insemination?
the same way every other guy and girl go about having a kid without artificial insemination

Ahh, but wanting to engage in homosexual acts defines one as gay, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. I could fuck a woman tomorrow. Won't mean I'm straight.

If you want to engage in gay sex, isn't it pretty much guaranteed that you have chosen to be attracted to that gender?

No, it doesn't.

Really, you need to read Michel Foucault's "History of Sexuality".

Ahh, but wanting to engage in homosexual acts defines one as gay, doesn't it? If you want to engage in gay sex, isn't it pretty much guaranteed that you have chosen to be attracted to that gender?
nope. sometimes you just see a man and WANT him without thinking about it in any way other than "damn he's hot"

most people find trying to change that basic reaction to be an exercise in futility. they can stop acting on it but they cant stop feeling it.

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!

I just want to say before the flames begin that there is no chance this guy is serious.

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!
Hmm, it's ite that seems to equate sadism and feces fetishes with homosexuality.
It's just a tad off....
:rolleyes:

And who cares if the kids don't like what their parents do? I didn't like that my parents were very conservative Christians, but I had to live with it. Kids aren't guaranteed parents that they perfectly agree with.

Hmmm? Wait, how do gays have kids without artificial insemination?

What, now you need lessons about the "birds and the bees"?

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!


Of course, everything from the Catholic Church is true. :rolleyes: "think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay." How come that doesn't work for straight parents? Gay children come from straight parents all the time. Maybe your argument is a bit flawed?

:headbang: wow, i really cant believe this is what im hearing...do you know the health, *and i pause before i put it this was but its true* risks associated with homosexuality? just look: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html. If you feel this is too biased, just do some research, you;; be amazed at the statistics. Its just not healthy! Not only that, think about the children. Its not just the issue of, if they grow up with gay parents they'll be gay. It that what if that kid grows up and doesnt approve of their lifestyle? They CANT do ANYTHING to change it and they DIDNT pick their parents so its NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS!

THINK ABOUT THE KIDS!
This doesnt even dignify a response.

:eek: How'd you know about the pixie dust :s *Is shocked, and amazed*

I was issued my decoder ring in 1986.

I can decide bagel or toast, eggs or oatmeal, but I've never woken up in the morning and asked myself male or female.

The human is a rather complex animal with an amazing ability for physical and psychological adaptation. It has been found that humans can be bisexual from both physical and psychological causes. The brains of male humans can be "patterned" into the female form via hormonal overdose during fetal development.

The hormonal overdose can happen naturally when a mother is either over stressed or in the case of the East German sports teams of the 1970s through injections of hormones. There has even been talk of DDT causing this effect since it breaks down in mammals to form a estrogen mimic. The heavy use of DDT as a pesticide in the 40s, 50s, and 60s closely mirrors the explosion of the adult male gay population in the US. Also if you consider that the first birth control pills were a hundred times more powerfull than the ones sold today, estrogen overdose of male fetuses could have happened throughout the 1960s, if the mother continued to mistakenly take the pills through the period of early fetal brain development.

Since the petrochemical and pharmaceutical industry could face hundreds of billions in lawsuits they dump millions on right wing ministers and "Family Values" organizations to place homosexuality in a purely moral framework rather than a biological one. They are preparing for the battles to come.

But aren't those urges what we're talking about? And aren't they in your case specifically heterosexual? And couldn't they just as easily be homosexual? So isn't there some genetic/hormonal component in there with all the self training?
I do agree that there are natural urges. I don't know if the type of urges (straight or gay) are due to natural causes (hormones, genes) environment (somehow relating to childhood) or a choice (a subconscious, ingrained one---when you convince yourself so much that you are of a particular sexuality that you believe you can't change it), but then again, I really don't care. What matters is that these are changeable. I'm not saying you have to change (although, I think everyone would be better off as asexual), I'm just saying you can.

Im sorry but that sounds really unessecary to have sex with someone who you dont want to have sex with just for a kid when you could go to another country or something to have a artificial insemination done.

Later, a lot of people went abroad and did it there, but a lot of people found artificial insemination too sterile. They got together with a friend and had an agreement. Really, it's quite a simple arrangement. The ends just justify the means.

What, now you need lessons about the "birds and the bees"?
I never got the part about "Two men having a baby..." in my birds and bees" lesson.

Later, a lot of people went abroad and did it there, but a lot of people found artificial insemination too sterile. They got together with a friend and had an agreement. Really, it's quite a simple arrangement. The ends just justify the means.

Not to mention the good ol' turkey baster standby.

I never got the part about "Two men having a baby..." in my birds and bees" lesson.

No, you apparently got stuck at the phase where you thought that heterosexuality had something to do with it.

I can decide bagel or toast, eggs or oatmeal, but I've never woken up in the morning and asked myself male or female.

The human is a rather complex animal with an amazing ability for physical and psychological adaptation. It has been found that humans can be bisexual from both physical and psychological causes. The brains of male humans can be "patterned" into the female form via hormonal overdose during fetal development.

The hormonal overdose can happen naturally when a mother is either over stressed or in the case of the East German sports teams of the 1970s through injections of hormones. There has even been talk of DDT causing this effect since it breaks down in mammals to form a estrogen mimic. The heavy use of DDT as a pesticide in the 40s, 50s, and 60s closely mirrors the explosion of the adult male gay population in the US. Also if you consider that the first birth control pills were a hundred times more powerfull than the ones sold today, estrogen overdose of male fetuses could have happened throughout the 1960s, if the mother continued to mistakenly take the pills through the period of early fetal brain development.

Since the petrochemical and pharmaceutical industry could face hundreds of billions in lawsuits they dump millions on right wing ministers and "Family Values" organizations to place homosexuality in a purely moral framework rather than a biological one. They are preparing for the battles to come.
You're using weak science. While its true that its a theory, no hard proof for a chemical connection has been found. Especially considering the fact that there were no petrochemical and pharmaceutical companies in Ancient Greece...

Not to mention the good ol' turkey baster standby.

I find it ever so comforting that the procreative, heterosexual intercourse is so dispensable that it can be replaced by a cup and a pipette.

This doesnt even dignify a response.

So lets not respond to it, shall we? Anyway, as I said, this guy isn't serious.

Back to topic: I know from experience and from my friends that it is possible to train yourself as to what turns you on Pavlovian style. That doesn't mean all forms of homosexuality are a choice. As our esteemed non-sexual admitted, hormones still cause urges independent of training. This is the non-choice part of homosexuality. Saying that the fact they can train themselves to oppose it is like saying I have chosen to be bad at sports because I didn't join kidsports when I was a kid. Tacit consent only applies to morality.

No, you apparently got stuck at the phase where you thought that heterosexuality had something to do with it.
Had to do with what? Heterosexual sex?

Let me be blunt: all of you who whine about homosexuality not being a choice are flat out wrong. And so are the heterosexuals. Why? Allow me to make a statement that will shock you, titillate you, and challenge everything you have ever believed...

Sexuality is a choice.

That's right, you can read it again. Go ahead. I'll wait. Done? Good.

The fact is, unlike what the media will constantly try to tell you, with the incessant cries of "Do it!" and constant flood of sexual propaganda, you don't have to have sex.\ Humanity has free will. You may have sexual impulses, but the fact is, if you still have a fully functioning brain, you can decide to have sex or not have sex. What's more, you can decide who you can have it with. You can go "do" a guy, a girl, even a freakin' beaver if you so desire.

Now, some of you may argue that you are not attracted to a certain sex. But the fact is, it's only perception, and perceptions can be controlled. For example, I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.

So in short, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and sexuality in general is a choice.



Bluntly, no.

I have talked to homosexuals, and they think that you would have to be nuts to choose a lifestyle of persecution. That, and it is just a fact that humans have sexual impulses. You don't get to choose which way those impulses go.

Had to do with what? Heterosexual sex?

Procreation. Do try to follow, but heterosexual sex is in no way dependant on heterosexuality.

given the social stigma attached, why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay?

given the social stigma attached, why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay?

Because it's superior, silly.

given the social stigma attached, why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay?

Interestingly enough, the stigma against homosexuality is fairly recent. Ancient cultures were far more accpeting of it than modern society is.

Bluntly, no.

I have talked to homosexuals, and they think that you would have to be nuts to choose a lifestyle of persecution. That, and it is just a fact that humans have sexual impulses. You don't get to choose which way those impulses go.
Ahh. But there's the rub, so to speak. A homosexual could go out and make out with a member of the opposite sex. A heterosexual could go out and have sex with a member of the same sex. The fact is, people don't always realize they have a choice. But while people do have initial leanings, they can train themselves to control them. Take me for example: I was born with hetero leanings, but am now 100% asexual.

I find it ever so comforting that the procreative, heterosexual intercourse is so dispensable that it can be replaced by a cup and a pipette.

Heh ... well ... human condition and all that schtuss. Fortunately, while sex can be replaced, good parenting cannot.

I guess I always figured that love made a family, not genitals. But I guess there are some sickos out there who affirm their genitals to their children.

I do agree that there are natural urges. I don't know if the type of urges (straight or gay) are due to natural causes (hormones, genes) environment (somehow relating to childhood) or a choice (a subconscious, ingrained one---when you convince yourself so much that you are of a particular sexuality that you believe you can't change it), but then again, I really don't care. What matters is that these are changeable. I'm not saying you have to change (although, I think everyone would be better off as asexual), I'm just saying you can.

My point is that if you haven't yet changed then your current state is not due to choice. You have chosen to be non-sexual, but would you consider the non-sexuality of young children to be a choice? This is the way it works with some homosexuals.

Don't get me wrong, many are homosexual by choice. I don't think pure biological luck was how one of my friends had three bisexual girlfriends at the same time last year. I'm just saying that some don't choose.

I didn't start that thread. Ah, and the fact is, we have no idea, as of yet, what controls people's initial desires. We don't know if its environmental, a subconscious choice, genes, etc. But the fact is, with enough will power, you can determine your sexuality. After all, notice how normally straight people who would puke at the sight of gay sex suddenly become gay in prison?

Oh, and I'm not asexual because I "can't get any." I find sex repulsive, love wasteful and pointless, etc.

And I'm most definitely not 12.

The fact is, we have no idea why it is the way it is, and we will never know.

I have to say, I respect your views, but I wish to ask a few questions:

1 - Why do you find sex "repulsive, love wasteful and pointless"

2 - How can you call it pointless when it is how we REPRODUCE?!?!?!

3 - Exactly how old are you?

I guess I always figured that love made a family, not genitals. But I guess there are some sickos out there who affirm their genitals to their children.

Nope, we all know that only heterosexuals can raise children well and instill "family values"! :rolleyes:

given the social stigma attached, why would anyone CHOOSE to be gay?

For bisexual women the "social stigma" is often positive. Many girls at my school are bi simply because its rebellious and sexy.

The fact is, we have no idea why it is the way it is, and we will never know.

I have to say, I respect your views, but I wish to ask a few questions:

1 - Why do you find sex "repulsive, love wasteful and pointless"

2 - How can you call it pointless when it is how we REPRODUCE?!?!?!

3 - Exactly how old are you?

One thing: we probably should not make fun of the non-sexual. Sometimes these people have decent reasons. One girl at my school is at least currently abstinent because of how seriously she's seen sex mess up various people's lives. Sometimes the fear is legitamate.

Nope, we all know that only heterosexuals can raise children well and instill "family values"! :rolleyes:

Oh that's right :D

[side tangeant begins] Hey ... weren't Dahmer's parents hetero? Hitler's? Bush's? Jim Jones's? Falwell's?

Ah ... good old fashioned hetero parenting. Schweet. [/tangeant]

I'd have to agree with the anyone who said it really isn't a choice. This is one of those things that just occurs, and while you may be able to try to convince yourself that you don't like your own gender, that doesnt mean it isn't true.

Quote:

Adam (gay): Well, I'm already going to hell for being gay so I don't really worry about committing sins anymore. God hates me.

Rachel (Christian): God doesn't hate you, he just doesn't like what you're doing.

For bisexual women the "social stigma" is often positive. Many girls at my school are bi simply because its rebellious and sexy.

God knows why, or maybe I should say God doesn't know why.

Caealan']I'd have to agree with the anyone who said it really isn't a choice. This is one of those things that just occurs, and while you may be able to try to convince yourself that you don't like your own gender, that doesnt mean it isn't true.

Quote:

Adam (gay): Well, I'm already going to hell for being gay so I don't really worry about committing sins anymore. God hates me.

Rachel (Christian): God doesn't hate you, he just doesn't like what you're doing.

It can be a choice, though it takes a lot of self training, etc. It isn't usually, though as I've said before a lot of girls I know seem to be bi specifically because its cool. Point is, you can change what turns you on over time.

True, Mcguyveria the health risks are far more than for heterosexual behaviour in western countries at the present time, but the largest HIV area is Africa, which is largely heterosexual however it is still a 'choice' of actions, look at smoking, and thsat a true choice
However, why would some one make the 'choice' and be constanmtly ridiculed, denounced by many faiths and societies and targeted for abuses of a verbal and phyiscal nature?
It is not a disease, but a psychological condition with several forms and causes, and physical symptoms and triggers
The only case of I can think of involving 'choice' was a raped woman of my acquiatance turning lesbian, but even then it was not a choice but a reaction to a deeply traumatic event. And then case she reverted to heterosexuality recently so i think is was more a trial of homosexuality/theapy/recovery period than a change in sexuality
Besides as a sexually inactive male (due to lack of oppurtunity than lack of desire), i'm am still definately heterosexual.
Besides they are just gay, it is not anyone's business but their own unless they make it ours

God knows why, or maybe I should say God doesn't know why.

But Goddess definitely knows why.

But Goddess definitely knows why.

I know for sure that the Gods and Goddesses know why, of course.

Procreation. Do try to follow, but heterosexual sex is in no way dependant on heterosexuality.
So you're referring to those who have hetero sex simply for procreation?

God knows why, or maybe I should say God doesn't know why.

Personally, on this issue, I don't think God cares. :D

So you're referring to those who have hetero sex simply for procreation?

I think you've went and completely lost track of the thread and what parts of it you were jumping into. Reread, and try again.

I'm homosexual and I'm pretty certain that it is not a choice.
If it were a choice I probably would have just stuck with being straight because that's the easier option. If I were straight I would find it easier to get a partner, I won't have to hide my relationships and I wouldn't have to be worried about being picked on by many people.

If I had a choice I probably would have been straight but I'm not.

Personally, on this issue, I don't think God cares. :D

I know Pan doesn't. :cool:

True, Mcguyveria the health risks are far more than for heterosexual behaviour in western countries at the present time, but the largest HIV area is Africa, which is largely heterosexual however it is still a 'choice' of actions, look at smoking, and thsat a true choice
However, why would some one make the 'choice' and be constanmtly ridiculed, denounced by many faiths and societies and targeted for abuses of a verbal and phyiscal nature?
It is not a disease, but a psychological condition with several forms and causes, and physical symptoms and triggers
The only case of I can think of involving 'choice' was a raped woman of my acquiatance turning lesbian, but even then it was not a choice but a reaction to a deeply traumatic event. And then case she reverted to heterosexuality recently so i think is was more a trial of homosexuality/theapy/recovery period than a change in sexuality
Besides as a sexually inactive male (due to lack of oppurtunity than lack of desire), i'm am still definately heterosexual.
Besides they are just gay, it is not anyone's business but their own unless they make it ours


Not that its usually a choice, but your main argument that it can't be seems to hinge on a stigma that is not actually as universal as you may think. There's a substantial group of girls at my school that is definitely bisexual by choice, because in women bisexuality is considered rebellious and sexy.

My point is that if you haven't yet changed then your current state is not due to choice. You have chosen to be non-sexual, but would you consider the non-sexuality of young children to be a choice? This is the way it works with some homosexuals.

Don't get me wrong, many are homosexual by choice. I don't think pure biological luck was how one of my friends had three bisexual girlfriends at the same time last year. I'm just saying that some don't choose.
But I have changed. Biologically, I started with hetero urges. (And occasionally still get them) but I've turned asexual.

But I have changed. Biologically, I started with hetero urges. (And occasionally still get them) but I've turned asexual.

Anything cause this? Or was it just a decision you came to?

Personally, on this issue, I don't think God cares. :D

He's very saddened by it. As a practicing Muslim, you should be too.

But I have changed. Biologically, I started with hetero urges. (And occasionally still get them) but I've turned asexual.

You're deluding yourself.

I'm homosexual and I'm pretty certain that it is not a choice.
If it were a choice I probably would have just stuck with being straight because that's the easier option. If I were straight I would find it easier to get a partner, I won't have to hide my relationships and I wouldn't have to be worried about being picked on by many people.

If I had a choice I probably would have been straight but I'm not.

For you, I agree. In places more accepting or even encouraging of homosexuality, not as much.

But I have changed. Biologically, I started with hetero urges. (And occasionally still get them) but I've turned asexual.

What I meant was, many gays didn't change. You have, probably at least. And you may even have good reasons. Perhaps you just have a lot of chocolate.

Originally Posted by The Winter Alliance
God knows why, or maybe I should say God doesn't know why.
Replied to by Keruvalia
Personally, on this issue, I don't think God cares.

Precisely. I have searched for any information and proof that God hates gay people. (Out of context perhaps, sorry)
Besides it's the child molesting preists I'm really hunting
Oh for moral provacation to be a defense in court

Anyway back onto the subject (so of)
Why would God care if they did not hurt anyone. It may not be natural, although there are those gay penguins in that European zoo, but there are far worse crimes than getting jiggy with a consenting adult of the same sex

For you, I agree. In places more accepting or even encouraging of homosexuality, not as much.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your whole basis for this seems to be the "bisexuality" of some teenage girls who'd say anything to look cool? You don't know how many fake-bisexuals there are out there, who say they are just to shock mommy or daddy or to get attention.

But I have changed. Biologically, I started with hetero urges. (And occasionally still get them) but I've turned asexual.

You've made yourself believe that.
If you still get hetro urges you must be hetro...or bi, depends on whether you get homo urges as well.

I don't really think it's a choice.

I can't imagine being with a guy, not that i find it repulsive, just not as great as being with a woman. ^^ Would it be easier being straight? Probably, but it wouldn't be half as much fun. ;)

Anything cause this? Or was it just a decision you came to?
Just a gradual decision. I realized that the whole idea of sex just seemed pointless and disgusting, and was horrified at what it did to my friends, who were becoming practically slaves to woman's thighs.

Mind you, I was never an open heterosexual. I had general urges, but they were during the period when everyone pretends to be asexual, and when it came to middle school, where everyone suddenly became straight, I realized the problems it entailed.

What I meant was, many gays haven't actively chosen.
Why are we fussing over them NEways? If people choose to be gay then that's good for them. I for one, and straight. They're not any less of a person. In fact, gay guys are the best kind of guys to talk to!

He's very saddened by it. As a practicing Muslim, you should be too.

Granted, part of this issue is very saddening. Allah, as well as myself, does find great sadness in anyone denegrating or having malicious and ignorant thoughts concerning their fellow man.

Whether or not someone is gay, straight, bi, or asexual ... Allah doesn't care. Everything Allah created is perfect. From birth onwards every child should be taught to know that Allah created him/her to be Allah's Khalifah. Even the gay ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your whole basis for this seems to be the "bisexuality" of some teenage girls who'd say anything to look cool? You don't know how many fake-bisexuals there are out there, who say they are just to shock mommy or daddy or to get attention.

Many are fake, but some of these people have definitely gone beyond the superficial. As I've said before you can train your sexual preferences, especially in teenage years when they're still somewhat fluid.

Just a gradual decision. I realized that the whole idea of sex just seemed pointless and disgusting, and was horrified at what it did to my friends, who were becoming practically slaves to woman's thighs.

Mind you, I was never an open heterosexual. I had general urges, but they were during the period when everyone pretends to be asexual, and when it came to middle school, where everyone suddenly became straight, I realized the problems it entailed.

I dont see the problem with people saying they're gay or not! There's nothing wrong with them, they're not any less of a person!

You've made yourself believe that.
If you still get hetro urges you must be hetro...or bi, depends on whether you get homo urges as well.
No, I;ve never had homo urges. And I'm not straight. My whole point is that I have convinced myself I was asexual, because of the problems I have with sexuality. And it proves my point that mental willpower can change sexuality. I'm not arguing over the causes of initial leanings, whether originally leaning towards the hetero or homo side is a choice or not, but that later on in life, through sheer will, one can change it.

Why do I think its a disease? Its simply illogical to not want to procreate. You may procede to flame me.


Um, I thought the need to have sex covers the desire to procreate, whether it's with the same gender or the opposite is neither here nor there, your body doesn't know

Many are fake, but some of these people have definitely gone beyond the superficial. As I've said before you can train your sexual preferences, especially in teenage years when they're still somewhat fluid.

How many of those are "bisexual" when they grow up? Very few, I'd reckon.

Granted, part of this issue is very saddening. Allah, as well as myself, does find great sadness in anyone denegrating or having malicious and ignorant thoughts concerning their fellow man.

Whether or not someone is gay, straight, bi, or asexual ... Allah doesn't care. Everything Allah created is perfect. From birth onwards every child should be taught to know that Allah created him/her to be Allah's Khalifah. Even the gay ones.
Erm, from what bits of managed to read of the Koran (I'm working on reading it all) Allah does condemn homosexuality in pretty stark terms.

Many are fake, but some of these people have definitely gone beyond the superficial. As I've said before you can train your sexual preferences, especially in teenage years when they're still somewhat fluid.
Anyone can train themselves to think something. Eight year olds can be trained to think that Funimation and 4Kids Corp. are the best things in the world, but really they're lying cheating meanies. Teens can make themselves be "turned-on" by the same sex, it's simple.

No, I;ve never had homo urges. And I'm not straight. My whole point is that I have convinced myself I was asexual, because of the problems I have with sexuality. And it proves my point that mental willpower can change sexuality. I'm not arguing over the causes of initial leanings, whether originally leaning towards the hetero or homo side is a choice or not, but that later on in life, through sheer will, one can change it.

You don't have any homosexual urges appear... you have an occasional heterosexual urge... you're straight but supressing your desires... -_-

I suppose you are right that whether or not you have sex or not is a choice... but I still have doubts that your sexual orientation (or whatever it is called nowadays) is a choice. I mean... do you know anyone who is willing to risk rejection by practically the whole world (possibly being lynched)... Maybe that isn;t a good argument, but there is extreme psychological proof out there.

I have noticed a trend that supports the idea that people are born "gay or Lesbian". I personally believe this to be a cop out! What's next? People are born to have sex with children? Animals? Will it ever stop?

Wake up people!

Erm, from what bits of managed to read of the Koran (I'm working on reading it all) Allah does condemn homosexuality in pretty stark terms.

Allah much more strongly condemns those who take Allah's will upon themselves. Allah condemns *all* sexual activity outside of marriage, hetero or otherwise.

However, it is a far worse crime against Allah to spit on your fellow man or to claim to be among the righteous. The worst sin in Islam is hatred.

I have noticed a trend that supports the idea that people are born "gay or Lesbian". I personally believe this to be a cop out! What's next? People are born to have sex with children? Animals? Will it ever stop?

Wake up people!
were you born straight?

I'm not supressing my desires. I'm supressing the hormonal fluctuations of an irrational body. Mentally, I am very happy to be asexual.

Erm, from what bits of managed to read of the Koran (I'm working on reading it all) Allah does condemn homosexuality in pretty stark terms.
Doesn't Allah pretty much condemn pretty much everything? Especially Christianity?

I have noticed a trend that supports the idea that people are born "gay or Lesbian". I personally believe this to be a cop out! What's next? People are born to have sex with children? Animals? Will it ever stop?

Wake up people!

Silly troll. Slippery slope. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html)

Doesn't Allah pretty much condemn pretty much everything? Especially Christianity?

Ummm ... no.

I have noticed a trend that supports the idea that people are born "gay or Lesbian". I personally believe this to be a cop out! What's next? People are born to have sex with children? Animals? Will it ever stop?

Wake up people!
I totally agree! But some people do have sex with children.

Silly troll. Slippery slope. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html)

Come now, Fass. Surely you know that the legalisation of homosexual marriage and the societal acceptance of gay couples is the final sign which precedes the zombie apocalypse.

I don's believe in differences in sexuality - homosexuality and heterosexuality. I think that people of both sexes find something about some people sexualt attractive. For lesbians, they like breasts maybe, or a feminine curve to their lovers, for gay men, maybe a big package, but in the same way 'straight' people find the same things attractive about people of the opposite sex. No matter who you ask on this entire planet, you will find that everyone likes in particular something specific about potential partners. It's not sexual preference, it's an attraction to a particular physical attribute

You don't have any homosexual urges appear... you have an occasional heterosexual urge... you're straight but supressing your desires... -_-

my point exactly, thank you costa bella.

Allah much more strongly condemns those who take Allah's will upon themselves. Allah condemns *all* sexual activity outside of marriage, hetero or otherwise.

However, it is a far worse crime against Allah to spit on your fellow man or to claim to be among the righteous. The worst sin in Islam is hatred.
True, but from what I've read (in a direct translation of the Koran, not the watered down nice version that many get here in the US) Allah does single out homosexuality, attacking it seperately from the "all sexual activity outside of marriage" part. So Allah/God does care. Of course, I'm sure He is against those who would harm them as well, orbably even more so, but to say He doesn't care is a tad revisionist.

Ok. This is quite simple. Weather you believe in God or not this works both ways! The reason humans are here on this earth is to populate the earth to keep it going. Simple. So that means people are naturally born to be heterosexualy. So either Homosexuality is a complete choice (which I dont really believe in) or its is a mental disorder/disease (which makes alittle more sense then choice) But none the less. Religious or not. The fact is we are here to pro-create so we are naturally born to be attracted to the opposite sex!

my point exactly, thank you costa bella.
.... I'm lost. Could you explain it in littler words please?

Anyone can train themselves to think something. Eight year olds can be trained to think that Funimation and 4Kids Corp. are the best things in the world, but really they're lying cheating meanies. Teens can make themselves be "turned-on" by the same sex, it's simple.
My point exactly! I don't know if initial leanings are by choice or genes or whatever, but you can control it later on!

True, but from what I've read (in a direct translation of the Koran, not the watered down nice version that many get here in the US) Allah does single out homosexuality, attacking it seperately from the "all sexual activity outside of marriage" part. So Allah/God does care. Of course, I'm sure He is against those who would harm them as well, orbably even more so, but to say He doesn't care is a tad revisionist.

Meh ... not really as singled out or judged as harshly as anyone else. The translation I read is Yusuf Ali's "The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an" ... not exactly watered down revisionism.

Much of the strong condemnation of homosexuals comes more from Sunnah and Hadith than Qur'an. Muhammed was quite the homophobe. Allah is not.

Allah created them and everything Allah creates is perfect.

Ok. This is quite simple. Weather you believe in God or not this works both ways! The reason humans are here on this earth is to populate the earth to keep it going. Simple. So that means people are naturally born to be heterosexualy. So either Homosexuality is a complete choice (which I dont really believe in) or its is a mental disorder/disease (which makes alittle more sense then choice) But none the less. Religious or not. The fact is we are here to pro-create so we are naturally born to be attracted to the opposite sex!
If you think about it, they BOTH make sense.

weather someone is born with a big hormone or however ppl think that homosexuality happens, you can still make the choice of being gay if you make yourself stick with it for long enough. It's like having new shoes. You hate them at first because they hurt, but then they don't hurt as much and you get used to them

Ok. This is quite simple. Weather you believe in God or not this works both ways! The reason humans are here on this earth is to populate the earth to keep it going. Simple. So that means people are naturally born to be heterosexualy. So either Homosexuality is a complete choice (which I dont really believe in) or its is a mental disorder/disease (which makes alittle more sense then choice) But none the less. Religious or not. The fact is we are here to pro-create so we are naturally born to be attracted to the opposite sex!

Bullshit. Also, what are your credentials to label anything a disease? As I said earlier, I'll accept an M.D., but prefer a Ph.D. with clinical experience. Normal rules and levels of evidence apply, of course.

Ok. This is quite simple. Weather you believe in God or not this works both ways!

weather someone is born with a big hormone


Ok ... sorry guys ... but it's "whether". "Weather" is what's going on outside ... rain, snow, sunshine, etc.

Bullshit. Also, what are your credentials to label anything a disease? As I said earlier, I'll accept an M.D., but prefer a Ph.D. with clinical experience. Normal rules and levels of evidence apply, of course.
Ok Fass. Say everyone in the world was gay or lesbian. THE WORLD WOULD DIE. men cannot firtilize men. Women cannot firtilize women. People are born attracted to the other sex so everyone wouldn't marry their best friend if they're the same sex!

I'm not supressing my desires. I'm supressing the hormonal fluctuations of an irrational body. Mentally, I am very happy to be asexual.

All the ladies must be heartbroken

Bullshit. Also, what are your credentials to label anything a disease? As I said earlier, I'll accept an M.D., but prefer a Ph.D. with clinical experience. Normal rules and levels of evidence apply, of course.


I was just stating that is my personal opinion! It could be a choice to as some said a post above yours. That does make sense also. The bottom line is no matter what you believe we are born naturally attracted to the opposite sex because we are put on this earth to repopulate it! Homosexuality does NOT repopulate the earth! CASE CLOSED!

Ok Fass. Say everyone in the world was gay or lesbian. THE WORLD WOULD DIE. men cannot firtilize men. Women cannot firtilize women. People are born attracted to the other sex so everyone wouldn't marry their best friend if they're the same sex!

Gay men can fertilise gay women.

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The bible is clear. When you stand before a Holy God and try to explain away his words I wish you luck.

Ok. This is quite simple. Weather you believe in God or not this works both ways! The reason humans are here on this earth is to populate the earth to keep it going. Simple. So that means people are naturally born to be heterosexualy. So either Homosexuality is a complete choice (which I dont really believe in) or its is a mental disorder/disease (which makes alittle more sense then choice) But none the less. Religious or not. The fact is we are here to pro-create so we are naturally born to be attracted to the opposite sex!


Don't know about you but I've often confused a guy for a girl and vice versa. We can be attracted to the opposite sex when they look like the same sex, isn't it possible then that we can find the same sex attractive. As was said before, behaviour is a concious act, all it takes is someone to act on that attraction

Plus, the ancient Greeks considered sex between two men to be the highest form of love that could exist between two people. And they were a bright bunch!

Ok ... sorry guys ... but it's "whether". "Weather" is what's going on outside ... rain, snow, sunshine, etc.
I can never get the two straight. Either that, or I forget one or the other. Sorry!

Meh ... not really as singled out or judged as harshly as anyone else. The translation I read is Yusuf Ali's "The Meaning of the Holy Qur'an" ... not exactly watered down revisionism.

Much of the strong condemnation of homosexuals comes more from Sunnah and Hadith than Qur'an. Muhammed was quite the homophobe. Allah is not.

Allah created them and everything Allah creates is perfect.
That's odd. You're a Muslim, but dislike Muhammed? And while it's not as condemned as many other things, the fact that it is condemned does mean He cares. It may be minor, but saying that teaching should be ignored is like saying the rule against alcohol should be ignored.

we are put on this earth to repopulate it!

That's a very sad world view you have there.

Gay men can fertilise gay women.
But they wont do it if they're gay. Everyone would be cheating on everyone else and the whole world would turn into chaos!

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The bible is clear. When you stand before a Holy God and try to explain away his words I wish you luck.
oh i do hope the clothes you are wearing are made out of only one material.

Now, some of you may argue that you are not attracted to a certain sex. But the fact is, it's only perception, and perceptions can be controlled. For example, I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.


So what you're saying is that you're not only dense, but boring and unattractive to either heteros or homos and that you've decided to placate your deflated ego by introducing this crap.

Okay. Cool. Just so long as the truth is out there.

Sorry, pal, but while you're correct in saying that humanity is nominally in control of our urges, attraction (read also temptation) is something of which we're most definitely not in control. Nothing you can do, say or show me can make me attracted to another man. I can certainly see the aesthetics inherent in making a man an object of desire, but I'll never desire one. Nor will I ever desire an buck-toothed, halibut-tailed industrial mammal.

So nice try there, Kinsey, but your vessel doesn't hold water and is instead fulla shit.

That's odd. You're a Muslim, but dislike Muhammed? And while it's not as condemned as many other things, the fact that it is condemned does mean He cares. It may be minor, but saying that teaching should be ignored is like saying the rule against alcohol should be ignored.
I know! Isn't Muhammad like that "Angel of Allah" who wrote the Koran?

But they wont do it if they're gay. Everyone would be cheating on everyone else and the whole world would turn into chaos!
just...like...what happens with most people being straight?

Don't know about you but I've often confused a guy for a girl and vice versa. We can be attracted to the opposite sex when they look like the same sex, isn't it possible then that we can find the same sex attractive. As was said before, behaviour is a concious act, all it takes is someone to act on that attraction

Plus, the ancient Greeks considered sex between two men to be the highest form of love that could exist between two people. And they were a bright bunch!
Again, sexuality is a malleablem conscious choice.

But just because the Greels thought something doesn't mean it was right...Spartans thought bathing more than once a year was a sign of weakness, after all, and the only reason they felt that man sex was the highest form of love was bexause they were misogynists...

I was just stating that is my personal opinion!

Your opinion is worth shit when you try to make medical assumptions. You clearly lack any sort of knowledge of the things you have an opinion about, like medicine and the classification of diseases.

It could be a choice to as some said a post above yours. That does make sense also. The bottom line is no matter what you believe we are born naturally attracted to the opposite sex because we are put on this earth to repopulate it!

First you need to prove there is a purpose. Then prove that there is such a purpose. Then prove that it is binding for all humans. And then explain how humans came to be 6 billion+ on this planet, despite homosexual individuals. And then explain why everbody doesn't seem to need to procreate. And also explain why homosexuals are capable of procration.

Homosexuality does NOT repopulate the earth! CASE CLOSED!

Are you truly so ignorant of the birds and the bees, that you think homosexual people to be sterile?

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The bible is clear. When you stand before a Holy God and try to explain away his words I wish you luck.

But I saw an image of the virgin mary appear in a bowl of cheerios and she told me "thou shalt hump mankind as womankind".

Again, sexuality is a malleablem conscious choice.

But just because the Greels thought something doesn't mean it was right...
and just because you think something doesnt mean its right.

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The bible is clear. When you stand before a Holy God and try to explain away his words I wish you luck.


I have found many more then just those two. Alot of people disapprove of those two because they are of the old convenant. I did however find some in the new testament though as well! But I dont remember where off hand.

I was just stating that is my personal opinion! It could be a choice to as some said a post above yours. That does make sense also. The bottom line is no matter what you believe we are born naturally attracted to the opposite sex because we are put on this earth to repopulate it! Homosexuality does NOT repopulate the earth! CASE CLOSED!

Yes we do need to repopulate the earth but we also need to control how we do it. In different species that live and work togethor in a community you find homosexuals, it's natures way of controlling the population. Did dolphins choose to become homosexual?

So what you're saying is that you're not only dense, but boring and unattractive to either heteros or homos and that you've decided to placate your deflated ego by introducing this crap.

Okay. Cool. Just so long as the truth is out there.

Sorry, pal, but while you're correct in saying that humanity is nominally in control of our urges, attraction (read also temptation) is something of which we're most definitely not in control. Nothing you can do, say or show me can make me attracted to another man. I can certainly see the aesthetics inherent in making a man an object of desire, but I'll never desire one. Nor will I ever desire an buck-toothed, halibut-tailed industrial mammal.

So nice try there, Kinsey, but your vessel doesn't hold water and is instead fulla shit.

I think if you try hard enough, you can control your tempations and attractions.

That's odd. You're a Muslim, but dislike Muhammed? And while it's not as condemned as many other things, the fact that it is condemned does mean He cares. It may be minor, but saying that teaching should be ignored is like saying the rule against alcohol should be ignored.

I don't have to like Muhammed. Muhammed was a man, a messenger, nothing more and not worthy of worship. He had his faults, he sinned, he died and returned to the earth from whence he came.

Muslims should not ask "What Would Muhammed Do?" but rather ask "What would be pleasing to Allah?"

In the end, I do not believe Allah cares about such trivial physical things. These bodies, these shells, will be as useless to us as your mother's placenta is to you now. It is our hearts and minds that Allah is primarily concerned with.

We are human and make mistakes. Allah will not cast a person into eternal punishment for drinking a beer or enjoying a smoke. Not the Allah I have come to understand, anyway.

just...like...what happens with most people being straight?
Yes, but not everyone in the world is gay, so we still have reproduction skills, and we're not cheating on each other to save to world from extintion.

But they wont do it if they're gay. Everyone would be cheating on everyone else and the whole world would turn into chaos!

They do it all the time. Famous case: Melissa Etheridge. Just how do you suppose she had them babies? Miracle?

Yes, but not everyone in the world is gay, so we still have reproduction skills, and we're not cheating on each other to save to world from extintion.
you do realise that homosexuals arent automatically infertile?

I don't have to like Muhammed. Muhammed was a man, a messenger, nothing more and not worthy of worship. He had his faults, he sinned, he died and returned to the earth from whence he came.

Muslims should not ask "What Would Muhammed Do?" but rather ask "What would be pleasing to Allah?"

In the end, I do not believe Allah cares about such trivial physical things. These bodies, these shells, will be as useless to us as your mother's placenta is to you now. It is our hearts and minds that Allah is primarily concerned with.

We are human and make mistakes. Allah will not cast a person into eternal punishment for drinking a beer or enjoying a smoke. Not the Allah I have come to understand, anyway.

There's a two-faced god starin you right in the soul, then.

Ok Fass. Say everyone in the world was gay or lesbian. THE WORLD WOULD DIE. men cannot firtilize men. Women cannot firtilize women. People are born attracted to the other sex so everyone wouldn't marry their best friend if they're the same sex!

I could impregnate a woman tomorrow if need be. My homosexuality in no way makes me incapable of knocking someone up. My spermcount is actually quite good.

Yes, but not everyone in the world is gay, so we still have reproduction skills, and we're not cheating on each other to save to world from extintion.


So if we can safely rule out the theory that humanity is heading towards extinction, then why do people stress so much about homosexual relationships? o.O

you do realise that homosexuals arent infertile?
YES! You know what, I'm confusing myself. I'm just fine with people being gay, alright? But if the whole world were gay, that'd be a problem to me.

I know! Isn't Muhammad like that "Angel of Allah" who wrote the Koran?

Ummmm .... no.

Asexual eh? Oh wait, you had that thread where you said people should stop fucking. Eh. People will believe wha they want. Ill stick to my opinion that Homosexuality is a disease/mental disorder.

Disease?! That's disgusting. Mental disorder I can condone, but disease is an irrational explanation. I hate to be all 'rainbows and kittens' but what do we care whether or not men fuck eachother? Let them have it w/o labeling them diseased.

So if we can safely rule out the theory that humanity is heading towards extinction, then why do people stress so much about homosexual relationships? o.O

I'm not stressing homosexuality in itself, i'm stressing the whole world being gay. I can't even remember how I got on this topic

YES! You know what, I'm confusing myself. I'm just fine with people being gay, alright? But if the whole world were gay, that'd be a problem to me.


It'd sure be a lot more festive.

Disease?! That's disgusting. Mental disorder I can condone, but disease is an irrational explanation. I hate to be all 'rainbows and kittens' but what do we care whether or not men fuck eachother? Let them have it w/o labeling them diseased.

Yeah, cause "mental disorder" is so much better. Hypocrite!

I have found many more then just those two. Alot of people disapprove of those two because they are of the old convenant. I did however find some in the new testament though as well! But I dont remember where off hand.

The bible never was "the word of god" as some people put it, nor was it Jesus' direct words, it wasn't even made until several years after his death. It's gone through so many translations and so many opinions that it is definately no word of god.

Again, sexuality is a malleablem conscious choice.




To name one - Elton John lived life as a heterosexual man for years, married and all, but bitter and resentful. It was only when he came out of the closet that life took a turn for the better for him. Now he's divorced and openly gay and HAPPY, emphasise HAPPY with his life

Ummmm .... no.
Thats what I was taught.

YES! You know what, I'm confusing myself. I'm just fine with people being gay, alright? But if the whole world were gay, that'd be a problem to me.

The whole won't be gay. The whole world won't be straight. You need to get over and stop hiding behind your impossible hypothetical.

There's a two-faced god starin you right in the soul, then.

You sure about that, or are you simply following the corruption that men give to Allah's word? Allah exists outside of a book. Qur'an is an instruction guide, not the embodiment of Allah.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

God bless all here.

I think we should make homosexuality and abortions mandatory.

The bible never was "the word of god" as some people put it, nor was it Jesus' direct words, it wasn't even made until several years after his death. It's gone through so many translations and so many opinions that it is definately no word of god.
The bible is the word of god, but people have degraded it to fit society so much it isn't anymore. Stick with the NKJV, and that'll set ya straight

This whole thread pisses me off.
I understand the perception idea. It was present in ancient China when fat women were considered super models. But sexuality is not a choice.
Who would choose that sort of life?
And choosing not to like sex, or not to have sex, have nothing to do with homosexuality.
I'm attracted to men.
Making me heterosexual.
I'm also attracted to women but would never have sex with them. That would probably make me bisexual.
Now is that my choice?
No.
Despite the fact that I deny myself bisexual sex, I'm still bisexual.

We're all forgetting the point here. Yes, the human mind is capaple of creating many exuses and reasons for just about anything. Yes, a person can convince themselves they are asexual. But ther real point is not that you have convinced yourself of such, Armandian Cheese, but rather that you are afraid of sex. Perfectly understandable. One who has suffered from mollestation may find the thought of all intimacy repulsive, and I know this from experiance. The real sign of skill in convincing your own mind is to convince yourself that you have nothing to fear.

I think we should make homosexuality and abortions mandatory.
MANDATORY!?!?!?!?!? You really want the world to die, don't you?

The bible is the word of god, but people have degraded it to fit society so much it isn't anymore. Stick with the NKJV, and that'll set ya straight

Who gives a rat's ass about the Bible?

Thats what I was taught.

By whom?

Muhammed was a man, not an Angel in any sense of the word. He was a prophet, yes, but prophets are just men who receive a Divine message and deliver it.

Any Muslim who holds Muhammed in line with Allah is a blasphemer and needs re-education.

This whole thread pisses me off.
I understand the perception idea. It was present in ancient China when fat women were considered super models. But sexuality is not a choice.
Who would choose that sort of life?
And choosing not to like sex, or not to have sex, have nothing to do with homosexuality.
I'm attracted to men.
Making me heterosexual.
I'm also attracted to women but would never have sex with them. That would probably make me bisexual.
Now is that my choice?
No.
Despite the fact that I deny myself bisexual sex, I'm still bisexual.
You can stop the temptations, past what all the shrinks out there say to you.

So what you're saying is that you're not only dense, but boring and unattractive to either heteros or homos and that you've decided to placate your deflated ego by introducing this crap.

Okay. Cool. Just so long as the truth is out there.

Sorry, pal, but while you're correct in saying that humanity is nominally in control of our urges, attraction (read also temptation) is something of which we're most definitely not in control. Nothing you can do, say or show me can make me attracted to another man. I can certainly see the aesthetics inherent in making a man an object of desire, but I'll never desire one. Nor will I ever desire an buck-toothed, halibut-tailed industrial mammal.

So nice try there, Kinsey, but your vessel doesn't hold water and is instead fulla shit.
Firstly, I'm not introducing this to placate my ego. I am anti-sexual by choice, and my craptacular worthlessness as a human being only helps me say anti-sexual.

Second, you can control and modify yourself. You have free will, no? And I'm sure what you said was repeated by many a man before he went to prison...

And DO NOT compare me to that shitbag asshole Kinsey. I don't wish to be so vulgar, but he was an immoral perverse bastard who encouraged pedophilic "experiments" on children. Also, I'm not saying all sexual practices are morally acceptable. Personally, I view homosexuality as immoral. All I'm saying is that the power of the human will is immeasurable.

By whom?

Muhammed was a man, not an Angel in any sense of the word. He was a prophet, yes, but prophets are just men who receive a Divine message and deliver it.

Any Muslim who holds Muhammed in line with Allah is a blasphemer and needs re-education.
my aunt home-shooled my 'til two years ago

MANDATORY!?!?!?!?!? You really want the world to die, don't you?

Again! My homosexuality in no way makes me incapable of knocking a woman up.

The world will never be all gay. The world will never be all straight. You need to stop hiding behind your impossible hypothetical.

MANDATORY!?!?!?!?!? You really want the world to die, don't you?

No, it would be better for the world...Soon we'd all be hooked on buggery and have a stem-cell holocaust on our hands.
And everyone would feel really important knowing they are the last of mankind.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;


Clue: Paul was an asshole.

Find Jesus's words condemning homosexuality. Jesus himself, not some misogynistic power mongering jack-ass.

my aunt home-shooled my 'til two years ago

Mmkay .... is your aunt Muslim?

Edited note: I will return to this thread later. I have to go make some sfincione now.

Homosexuality does NOT repopulate the earth! CASE CLOSED!

Okay, Jerry Falwell, I hate to wave another in a series of endless facts in front of your face just to have it utterly missed like the parade of them that must have passed prior, but the world's population is set to crack SEVEN BILLION. Now forgive me, but if miracles are supposed to be rare, the so-called "miracle" of childbirth (no more a miracle to me as a process than the production of turds after a good meal) is spreading like wildfire. Now I know you likely don't believe that the miracle counts if the chief beneficiary of the increase in population are brown people, but stick with me on this one.

The world's resources as we're using them now are FINITE. Unless you're one of those Left Behinders who are counting on The Rapture to pluck The Righteous from the perils of environmental degradation, even you must see that still MORE mewling cabbages is NOT the solution to overpopulation. I'm not gay, but I don't see a problem with something that involves a potential for loving relationships that doesn't involve one of the couple becoming a brood mare for the state.

Besides, do you seriously believe that homosexuality in ANY way threatens the heterosexual ability to pump out another unit ever nine months? Even if homos were to become 50% of the population, there'd still be plenty of water-headed miracle baby-children to replace you and be the vessel into which you pour your sociopolitical views.

There are SO MANY OTHER and FAR MORE IMPORTANT things for you to complain about. Why not take on something that's doing actual harm to the world as opposed to something you personally just don't like. I don't like the intrusion of religion into my life, but I don't go out and picket churches. I laugh, shake my head at the infinite variety of human perception and get on with my OWN LIFE. I suggest you do the same, but of course, you don't need to. It is, for the time being, still a free country.

THINK -- It's patriotic.

But just because the Greels thought something doesn't mean it was right...Spartans thought bathing more than once a year was a sign of weakness, after all, and the only reason they felt that man sex was the highest form of love was bexause they were misogynists...


Mankind is misogenistic to a degree, trampling womens rights, burn the bra, etc, etc, etc. Muslim women are expected to hide their faces to all but their immediate family and husbands. Mankind has a history of treating women like shit, it wasn't limited to the Greeks

my aunt home-shooled my 'til two years ago

Oh, so you're just a troll then. I.G.N.O.R.E. cannons engaged.

Firstly, I'm not introducing this to placate my ego. I am anti-sexual by choice, and my craptacular worthlessness as a human being only helps me say anti-sexual.

Second, you can control and modify yourself. You have free will, no? And I'm sure what you said was repeated by many a man before he went to prison...

And DO NOT compare me to that shitbag asshole Kinsey. I don't wish to be so vulgar, but he was an immoral perverse bastard who encouraged pedophilic "experiments" on children. Also, I'm not saying all sexual practices are morally acceptable. Personally, I view homosexuality as immoral. All I'm saying is that the power of the human will is immeasurable.
I'm not in any hurry to date right now, but that doesn't mean I'm asexual, does it?

Who gives a rat's ass about the Bible?

Answer: about 1 billion people do.

We're all forgetting the point here. Yes, the human mind is capaple of creating many exuses and reasons for just about anything. Yes, a person can convince themselves they are asexual. But ther real point is not that you have convinced yourself of such, Armandian Cheese, but rather that you are afraid of sex. Perfectly understandable. One who has suffered from mollestation may find the thought of all intimacy repulsive, and I know this from experiance. The real sign of skill in convincing your own mind is to convince yourself that you have nothing to fear.
I'm not scared of sex, I simply dislike it. And I most definitely was not molested! But the human mind is malleable. Willpower can do amazing things.

I don't understand how anyone can believe that sexuality is a choice.

Think about all the crap that gay people are put through in life. Why would they go through that if they could CHOOSE to erase these problems by becoming hetero?

Personally, I believe that sexual preference is the same as any other sort of preference. I hate team sports, for example, and no amount of will power or prodding will make me join a basketball team. Sexuality is no different.

It just doesn't make sense.

Answer: about 1 billion people do.

Why I should give a fuck about them deluding themselves? Shoo troll, shoo!

Oh, so you're just a troll then. I.G.N.O.R.E. cannons engaged.
Lol ^_^ I'm just stating what's fact, it's not like I knew better.

Muslim women are expected to hide their faces to all but their immediate family and husbands.

No they aren't. The veil is a myth. Qur'an calls for modesty, but does not say anything about covering the face.

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).

Guarding modesty ... both men and women.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).

Note the "when abroad".

I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.



Well now, there's something to be grateful for.

I don't understand how anyone can believe that sexuality is a choice.

Think about all the crap that gay people are put through in life. Why would they go through that if they could CHOOSE to erase these problems by becoming hetero?

Personally, I believe that sexual preference is the same as any other sort of preference. I hate team sports, for example, and no amount of will power or prodding will make me join a basketball team. Sexuality is no different.

It just doesn't make sense.
But you can change your taste buds, can't you? Sexuality is the same way.

it doesnt matter if its a choice or not. the gov still has no reason to take away their right of marriage.

i dont see how it could be choice. i dont see why someone would want to totally change their natural instinct (and dont say sexuality isnt natural instinct), especially considering that in most places of today's society it is socialy unnacceptable and often results in a person being alienated from family and friends.

Ok, this may not fit in so directly to the current debate...arguement...whatever the hell it is, but dont you think it shouldnt matter what people do in their personal lives as long as it doesnt hurt others? i mean, you dont seem like the type of person who would approve of homosexuals if nothing else, but just because you dont like what they are doing doesnt mean it is wrong. ill be honest with you i might feel a little akward if i saw two guys making out, but i wouldnt tell them to stop. its my fualt for being uncomfterble, not their fualt for doing what makes them happy. they arent trying to hurt me or make me feel uncomfterble. furthermore, even if what your originally said about homosexuality being completely choice, dont people have the right to choose what they want as long as it doesnt interfere with the rights of others? i choose to to do creepy drawings sometimes for instance, and even though my art teacher doesnt always love it he knows he cant tell me no, and he shouldnt, because it makes me happy, and im not hurting him. i think people have to be a little more accepting of one another. it doesnt mean you have to like them, but stop going so nuts trying to change them. worry about your life, what makes you happy, and dont get all upset and bent out of shape trying to change everyone else and decide what should make them happy. if you want to have sex with the same sex, or the opposite sex, or no one, or jugle flaming bottles of marachino cherries, thats up to you, you have the right to choose how you live. nuetrality people... this is one of those things that just isnt worth worrying about. to the people arguing with this guy i say go find something else to talk about and stop worrying, and to the originator... go take a nap and youll feel better when you wake up. :D

[QUOTE=Armandian Cheese]I'm not scared of sex, I simply dislike it. QUOTE]

Did you choose to dislike it (and when I say "choose", I'm not referring to "training yourself" to squelch sexual desires. I mean actually forcing yourself to find it detestable)?

If so, may I ask why?

No they aren't. The veil is a myth. Qur'an calls for modesty, but does not say anything about covering the face.

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty......And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms...." (Quran 24:30,31).

Guarding modesty ... both men and women.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).

Note the "when abroad".

Then why do Muslim women get beaten everytime their veil slips?

It does "make sense." Its how hypnosis works; changing your "tastes" may be hard, but is not impossoble. I'm living proof of that.

[QUOTE=Armandian Cheese]I'm not scared of sex, I simply dislike it. QUOTE]

Did you choose to dislike it (and when I say "choose", I'm not referring to "training yourself" to squelch sexual desires. I mean actually forcing yourself to find it detestable)?

If so, may I ask why?
If your training yourself to dislike it, then you're choosing to dislike it, and making your body do the same thing.

"But you can change your taste buds, can't you? Sexuality is the same way."

I disagree.

I can't force myself to like the taste of, say, black licorice any more than a gay man can force his penis to become erect at the sight of naked breasts.

Then why do Muslim women get beaten everytime their veil slips?

Stop feeding it, Keruvalia. Please.

Guarding modesty ... both men and women.

"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their bodies (when abroad) so that they should be known and not molested" (Quran 33:59).

Note the "when abroad".

'When abroad' can mean 'when outside'. OK, the Taliban rule is over and women are a little more liberal in Afghanistan, but the head covering remains, even in western countries. Doesn't apply to men though

"But you can change your taste buds, can't you? Sexuality is the same way."

I disagree.

I can't force myself to like the taste of, say, black licorice any more than a gay man can force his penis to become erect at the sight of naked breasts.
I've been to a bar a few times and I've had gay guys coming up to me and asking to feel my breasts.

[QUOTE=Armandian Cheese]I'm not scared of sex, I simply dislike it. QUOTE]

Did you choose to dislike it (and when I say "choose", I'm not referring to "training yourself" to squelch sexual desires. I mean actually forcing yourself to find it detestable)?

If so, may I ask why?
Oh, I chose it. Many reasons...
1. Quite simply, copulation is disgusting. As is kissing. All of it is an exchange of filthy bodily fluids.
2. Irrationalty-It's a primitive desire that overcomes rational thought.

Let me be blunt: all of you who whine about homosexuality not being a choice are flat out wrong. And so are the heterosexuals. Why? Allow me to make a statement that will shock you, titillate you, and challenge everything you have ever believed...

Sexuality is a choice.

That's right, you can read it again. Go ahead. I'll wait. Done? Good.

The fact is, unlike what the media will constantly try to tell you, with the incessant cries of "Do it!" and constant flood of sexual propaganda, you don't have to have sex.\ Humanity has free will. You may have sexual impulses, but the fact is, if you still have a fully functioning brain, you can decide to have sex or not have sex. What's more, you can decide who you can have it with. You can go "do" a guy, a girl, even a freakin' beaver if you so desire.

Now, some of you may argue that you are not attracted to a certain sex. But the fact is, it's only perception, and perceptions can be controlled. For example, I have trained myself to ne utterly anti-sexual.

So in short, homosexuality, heterosexuality, and sexuality in general is a choice.


Haha you're like that guy on Da Ali G show who is hactually trying not to ave sex! I loved how he called him "virgin" the whole time.