NationStates Jolt Archive

So we've moved from blatant political partisanship over to subjective analysis of WWI and WWII, the tactics used within and the contributing nations effect to the outcome of the war.
I guess that's probably progress.

1. Both Britain and France were being worn down from the war. Even if they had won the war without the US's help, the resulting depressions probably would have been even worse, as bad as Germany's

2. No...but then w/out America the UK and USSR probably wouldn't have won either. So it's kind of a non-issue.

Germans were starving in the street because the British navy was alive and healthy and blockading German ports. German soliders were eating crappy food, and the war was of brewing unpopularity of the home front. By the time America arrived, arguably the war had already been won.

This isn't meant to be an America-Bashing poll, I've just noticed that Americans don't seem to understand why it is that there country is so disliked.

Well, here's an oppurtunity for Europeans/Whatever to post some reasons. I don't want a sprawling xenophobic ramble. Lets keep it concise, logical and backed up by evidence if possible.


Let me list what I can...

1. American's do not see themselves as indoctrinated by their corporations. (30% of all books in classrooms starting in the 1950s were Corporate Propoganda)
2. American's do not see the glaring bias in their media.(Changing Moral values, torture given a green light, constantly "fear inducing" faked terror attacks, Non discussion of critical events, squashing of public debate)
3. American's only hear select news outside their country.(The BBC and Al-Jazzerra might not be known to many Americans)
4. Non-American's have more knowledge of world power structures.(They are directly effected by them)
5. Non-American's feel the direct effects of American Imperialism.(They are directly bombed by them)
6. American Corporations are the primary constituents of the "de-facto" world government (g8, WTO, people in the process of buying and selling the world)
7. Such private tyrannies (fortune 500 companies) accounted for 67% of the GNP of the US in 1995. They are likely much more now.
8. The atmosphere of Anti-union has taken a foothold (considered whiners)(A very important part of the Declaration of Human Rights)
9. Rampant Corruption and cronyism (Enron, Halliburton, Worldcom)
10. Openly Overt Conflicts of Interest (Rupert Murdock, Owns Fox, gets 12% of the internet infrastructure in 1996 through the new Telecommunications Act that year... something made by the people given to private tyranny, which they use to control you.)
11. Much evidence suggests the FBI played an important role in the last three major terrorist attacks on US soil, but no actual inquiries were allowed.
12. FEMA interment capacity can now hold 50% of the American Population in FEMA camps.
13. Military trained police officers, and PsyOps against civilians becoming common on US soil.
14. Violence is publically endorsed.(Acceptance of War)
15. Christian Morality is militantly enforced.(Supression of Civil Rights)

In short, America is no longer free. Even topics which you could say in the 1960s and 1970s you can not say now. Individuals will have no idea what you mean. Example, If I was to espouse that a much better form of government would be a socialist model with corporations only allowed to function under charter and they would dissolved once the function that they were created was completed, 90% of American's would not have a clue how that would be run or could envision a society like that. They are more likely to scream "Commie Commie Commie!" and run home to get their gun. Thats called "indoctrination to the Capitalist Model"

Also, American's so not see the hardships they place upon the world. The news always white-washes the US's activities. Even the Left winged media does this. Which is good, because if the media has the perception of being too liberal, then to go beyond "liberal" is like being off in space. Which is what people like me sound like to those who are indoctrinated. Unfortauntely to state loud cries from the Right that the media is to Liberal means that there is a push to bring the Left, more Right... And I don't think I have to tell you... Besides Saudi Arabia and Iran, there is country more Right (conservative) that the US. Canada's center is to the Far left of the US model, as is most European Unions members.

However, Greece seems to be pretty anal recently too...

We bombed the shit out of them, Dresden anyone?

The Dresden bombings happened after America entered the war if I remember my history lessons correctly

In fact, I don't exactly remember hearing anything about Allied bombers over heartland Germany before America entered WWII

Let me list what I can...

1. American's do not see themselves as indoctrinated by their corporations. (30% of all books in classrooms starting in the 1950s were Corporate Propoganda)
2. American's do not see the glaring bias in their media.(Changing Moral values, torture given a green light, constantly "fear inducing" faked terror attacks, Non discussion of critical events, squashing of public debate)
3. American's only hear select news outside their country.(The BBC and Al-Jazzerra might not be known to many Americans)
4. Non-American's have more knowledge of world power structures.(They are directly effected by them)
5. Non-American's feel the direct effects of American Imperialism.(They are directly bombed by them)
6. American Corporations are the primary constituents of the "de-facto" world government (g8, WTO, people in the process of buying and selling the world)
7. Such private tyrannies (fortune 500 companies) accounted for 67% of the GNP of the US in 1995. They are likely much more now.
8. The atmosphere of Anti-union has taken a foothold (considered whiners)(A very important part of the Declaration of Human Rights)
9. Rampant Corruption and cronyism (Enron, Halliburton, Worldcom)
10. Openly Overt Conflicts of Interest (Rupert Murdock, Owns Fox, gets 12% of the internet infrastructure in 1996 through the new Telecommunications Act that year... something made by the people given to private tyranny, which they use to control you.)
11. Much evidence suggests the FBI played an important role in the last three major terrorist attacks on US soil, but no actual inquiries were allowed.
12. FEMA interment capacity can now hold 50% of the American Population in FEMA camps.
13. Military trained police officers, and PsyOps against civilians becoming common on US soil.
14. Violence is publically endorsed.(Acceptance of War)
15. Christian Morality is militantly enforced.(Supression of Civil Rights)

In short, America is no longer free. Even topics which you could say in the 1960s and 1970s you can not say now. Individuals will have no idea what you mean. Example, If I was to espouse that a much better form of government would be a socialist model with corporations only allowed to function under charter and they would dissolved once the function that they were created was completed, 90% of American's would not have a clue how that would be run or could envision a society like that. They are more likely to scream "Commie Commie Commie!" and run home to get their gun. Thats called "indoctrination to the Capitalist Model"

Also, American's so not see the hardships they place upon the world. The news always white-washes the US's activities. Even the Left winged media does this. Which is good, because if the media has the perception of being too liberal, then to go beyond "liberal" is like being off in space. Which is what people like me sound like to those who are indoctrinated. Unfortauntely to state loud cries from the Right that the media is to Liberal means that there is a push to bring the Left, more Right... And I don't think I have to tell you... Besides Saudi Arabia and Iran, there is country more Right (conservative) that the US. Canada's center is to the Far left of the US model, as is most European Unions members.

However, Greece seems to be pretty anal recently too...

You've put every non-American's point into a concise list. Good man :)

So we've moved from blatant political partisanship over to subjective analysis of WWI and WWII, the tactics used within and the contributing nations effect to the outcome of the war.
I guess that's probably progress.


I don't know about that mate... ;) I'd say it's downgraded from what was suppose to be discussion and annalysis to petty squabbling.

Not to say that I'm not as guilty as the next man.

The Dresden bombings happened after America entered the war if I remember my history lessons correctly

Lancaster Bombers, RAF pilots. PLus, America was...um...the Allies...ahem

We're better than China at Human Rights. We're better than the UN at seeing and stopping genocide. So yes, we are better than them.

Indeed, this is the exact manifestation of what Europeans percieve as being the inherent "superiority complex" of the United States and its people.

Plus, I'm entitled to my opinions...I started this thread, but some idiot yank threw in something inflammatory that provoked a lot of Europeans. Something about piggies rolling, so we responded.

Of course, bigoted mongrels on both sides of the issue who obviously fail to discuss the matter with appropriate information and diplomatic neutrality (As in, not making petty remarks, personal jabs, or being obfuscated in one's views by unreasonable ethnocentrism and/or egos) always end up sending discussions to hell.

In any case, shame on Biggleses for creating a thread whose sole purpose was to begin his own series of rather unreasonable "venting". It is rather unfortunate that both sides of the Atlantic have an unreasonable view of eachother. I believe it is mainly due to the continuous vocalization of these issues by people with politically extreme views that are not representative of the general population.

It's an atrocity and an abscess on the civilized world.

To Christ it does. Sorry, but i'd rather please Christ than you. I'm pretty sure Christ would be on the side of the US in terms of IRaq... i don't imagine he'd feel much empathy for a ruthless dictator who favors only 20% of his population.

And as for impotent... lmao. I know you don't think we're impotent.
yes im sure christ would support bush on the war in Iraq.. haha are you kidding i could name a number of terrible things the 'allied' soldiers have done in Iraq.. like bush jr. authorized the use of cluster bombs and daisy cutter (the biggest non-nuclear bombs. They contributed to the death of 10000 innocent civilians.

Indeed, this is the exact manifestation of what Europeans percieve as being the inherent "superiority complex" of the United States and its people.



Of course, bigoted mongrels on both sides of the issue who obviously fail to discuss the matter with appropriate information and diplomatic neutrality (As in, not making petty remarks, personal jabs, or being obfuscated in one's views by unreasonable ethnocentrism and/or egos) always end up sending discussions to hell.

In any case, shame on Biggleses for creating a thread whose sole purpose was to begin his own series of rather unreasonable "venting". It is rather unfortunate that both sides of the Atlantic have an unreasonable view of eachother. I believe it is mainly due to the continuous vocalization of these issues by people with politically extreme views that are not representative of the general population.

On the contrary, I started this thread to educate American people. I had been making posts on other forums, and they had been behaving in a rude and unforgiveable manner. Thought this'd give them a wake up call for saying we had "mouths that looked like we'd eaten stools"

So we've moved from blatant political partisanship over to subjective analysis of WWI and WWII, the tactics used within and the contributing nations effect to the outcome of the war.
I guess that's probably progress.

Thats called Movies and Propoganda... In 100 years, once America either owns everything or has conquered the world, they will say that Hilter tried to espouse the views of white supremacy before, but now, 150 years after his defeat, we realized his and George W Bush's dream of a completely Totalitarian World, a New World Order.... Then everyone is force to stand and clap in synchronicity, or be shot... (and you are very thankful for that, because if you were brown or black, you would likely be dead in a mass grave...)

America will never be able to own everything, the people they annexed would never cease to rebel.

PLUS, Republic forever, Empire Never? Right ;)

Let me list what I can...

snip



OMW I think I love you.

We bombed the shit out of them, Dresden anyone?
Dresden's not something to be proud of, dude. Annihilating a city isn't something anyone should be proud of... and any intelligent American isn't proud of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

Dresden's not something to be proud of, dude. Annihilating a city isn't something anyone should be proud of... and any intelligent American isn't proud of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

A lot of you are proud of Iraq, though ;) QED

You have it backwards, the useless fat kid who talks too much is Europe/UN. The kids that actually get hings done are the Us, China and India.

Its the Europeans who claim all sorts of things(culture civilization ect) while not even eing able to clean up the messes in their own back yards(kosovo, serbvia ect).

The impotent fat kid..hell, even a fool will tell you that its france and germany.

well your right about china and india, but uh last time I checked the U.S. was truning out some of the lowest test scores in the world..... yeah, we REALLY get things done here, we show those other cats how its done :rolleyes:

Someone said earlier that Russia and Britain could not have won WWII without the US's help is an ignorant and overconfident fool. Many historians, even myself, believe that without the help of Russia, Hitler could have taken all of Europe, and possibly could have attacked the US. The Russians came to find the bane of the Panzer and Tiger tanks, not the US. Russia was on the east with everybody else on the west, if it were not for Russia, Hitler would not have had many of his forces on the east, although it did not have the effect he wanted, because the Russians were pissed at hitlers massacre in their country, so Hitler only lost the war because he had to fight his front and fight behind him. The war was ended by the Red Army who made it to Berlin. The US is just a cockyheaded "superpower"

- I am from America

Thats called Movies and Propoganda... In 100 years, once America either owns everything or has conquered the world, they will say that Hilter tried to espouse the views of white supremacy before, but now, 150 years after his defeat, we realized his and George W Bush's dream of a completely Totalitarian World, a New World Order.... Then everyone is force to stand and clap in synchronicity, or be shot... (and you are very thankful for that, because if you were brown or black, you would likely be dead in a mass grave...)

Perhaps I'm being naive, but Condi Rice is black . . . so I don't see mass graves in the near future.
Furthermore, I was talking about the evolution of this thread. I don't know where your response came from.

True that, the Axis bombed the literal shit out of European factories, once America was in the war, the Allies had a strong industrial base that was 90% safe from destruction.

Yeah, all those commonwealth countries didn't spend everything they had making stuff to sent to England just because American's finally decided which side of the War to get in on... Germany courted the US for 3 years before the US got involved. The Corporations kept America from joining the war sooner because they were DEEPLY involved in financing Germany. Fanta(Coke) IBM(Made the extermination transport system for the Jews and other "non-whites".) and of course my personal favorites Henry Ford(Anti-Semite) and Prescott Bush (Nazi-Collaborator and grandfather of the current Emperor, GW Bush)

The US didn't get into the war until someone didn't like you in particular(Pearl "yeah we saw it coming" Harbour). The screams and death throws of countless innocent lives in Europe made no difference for THREE YEARS... I doubt they would say they "owe you favours" its because of your businesses that so many died. The US was low on Aluminum for the War because by the time 42 rolled about most was SOLD to Germany!

(And I'm not yelling at YOU in particular sir.. Just "you" in general.. ;P )

Which is why the people who american's have kept down for so long are now attacking them. I mean, your government opresses me and I don't get a chance to vote (or have any say) in how you kill us, then yes, I can see why they now hold the people of america who vote for the corrupt and criminal individuals they put in power as responsible as those in power.

It makes logical sense, and as long as you kill them, they will kill you... Seems normal.

You really need to rewrite this with some sort of point of reference... I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about.

To Christ it does. Sorry, but i'd rather please Christ than you. I'm pretty sure Christ would be on the side of the US in terms of IRaq... i don't imagine he'd feel much empathy for a ruthless dictator who favors only 20% of his population.

And as for impotent... lmao. I know you don't think we're impotent.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Bush is pretty close to your definition. Look into how many innocent civilians we killed over in Iraq, and for what reason? Why, oil of course, it was not to save Iraqi citizens, there are people in the world more worse off than they were, and if we wanted to save them, why kill them?

A lot of you are proud of Iraq, though ;) QED

And you're proud of bombing the living Hell out of a city full of innocent civilians. I submit like I did earlier that you are no better than the Americans you despise so much.

Either way, I grow tired of this nonsense. You have done very little to prove to me that you can be responsible in your arguments, and you've done nothing to make yourself look intelligent or credible. My patience has run thin for this conversation and your utter lack of sincerity in being mature. Good evening.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but Condi Rice is black . . . so I don't see mass graves in the near future.
Furthermore, I was talking about the evolution of this thread. I don't know where your response came from.

I apologize if you couldn't follow. What I am saying is that the Unite States will probably cause world war three, and if they win, then the idea of creating a two tiered society (The Rich vs "The few left who work for the Rich") will be the standard. Then you will have a natural extension of the current trend to build an Authoritarian empire, which is pretty much in place now. See, it doesn's matter who gets elected, it's always "run" by the same Corporations. Thats why the allowable debate window in the US is exceedingly small.

And you're proud of bombing the living Hell out of a city full of innocent civilians. I submit like I did earlier that you are no better than the Americans you despise so much.

Either way, I grow tired of this nonsense. You have done very to prove to me that you can be responsible in your arguments, and you've done nothing to make yourself look intelligent or credible. My patience has run thin for this conversation and your utter lack of sincerity in being mature. Good evening.

I said I was proud? I care what you think? I think I've been quite responsible and retaliatory at best.

Someone said earlier that Russia and Britain could not have won WWII without the US's help is an ignorant and overconfident fool. Many historians, even myself, believe that without the help of Russia, Hitler could have taken all of Europe, and possibly could have attacked the US. The Russians came to find the bane of the Panzer and Tiger tanks, not the US. Russia was on the east with everybody else on the west, if it were not for Russia, Hitler would not have had many of his forces on the east, although it did not have the effect he wanted, because the Russians were pissed at hitlers massacre in their country, so Hitler only lost the war because he had to fight his front and fight behind him. The war was ended by the Red Army who made it to Berlin. The US is just a cockyheaded "superpower"

- I am from America
Wow i have never met an american like you you're my hero. Yes if it wasnt for russia Hitler would of won. Dont forget Russia was also being attacked by Japan. From what I have heard By winning in Stalingrad Hitler would of been able to have access to a lot of oil, also with out the lrussian winter the panzer and tiger tanks would of been fully opperational only adding more onto the allied casualties.

Look, Lets take the middle here peeps. Is the US policy today something we all agree on?, no. But consider. I am a Canadian. I do not like everything they do. BUUUTTT...They did stop the Nazi machine, they did win the cold war, there is untold (by the media) billions directed into helping the world. They have done a heapload of stuff that everyone forgets conviently to play the I know polictics game. How much did it cost them to deter a soviet invasion of europe? how much for ww1 ww2. The Asian domino game? It goes on and on. Call them cowboys but sometimes we need a big gun and u know it. So take the good with the bad and take the beast we need and try to control it. nuff said

Will you please just get over the fact that America did hardly anything for WW1? Plus, there's credible evidence that suggests the Russians won WW2 by "catching Germany's bullets". No, you really didn't stop Germany in WW1. GET OVER IT

Um? The entire French and British strategy in 1917 was to wait for the Americans, as they knew the Russians were likely to collapse, and Rumania would likely go with it. :rolleyes:

I'm sure the French and English combined could defeat the 50+ divisions coming from the East. Riiiiiiight.

America may have come in late, but it came in decisively. Without US involvement, Germany would have at LEAST gotten peace on it's terms, and possibly could have won.

This whole thing is pointless. Alliances happen because nations NEED them.

This must be a congregation of fat, spoiled, impotent, loud, annoying children... LIKE THE UN, US GOVERNMENT, and THE EU!!!

(See my earlier post... page 1 methinks)

Who do you think those kids in high school grow up to become and why you feel guilty 20 years later?

Um? The entire French and British strategy in 1917 was to wait for the Americans, as they knew the Russians were likely to collapse, and Rumania would likely go with it. :rolleyes:

I'm sure the French and English combined could defeat the 50+ divisions coming from the East. Riiiiiiight.

America may have come in late, but it came in decisively. Without US involvement, Germany would have at LEAST gotten peace on it's terms, and possibly could have won.

This whole thing is pointless. Alliances happen because nations NEED them.

Erm....ahem...Rumania didn't really contribute to the western war effort. We gave up on Russia after the Brusilov Offensive and I wouldn't stay taking pro-active action at sea and on the western front is 'waiting'.

Look, Lets take the middle here peeps. Is the US policy today something we all agree on?, no. But consider. I am a Canadian. I do not like everything they do. BUUUTTT...They did stop the Nazi machine, they did win the cold war, there is untold (by the media) billions directed into helping the world. They have done a heapload of stuff that everyone forgets conviently to play the I know polictics game. How much did it cost them to deter a soviet invasion of europe? how much for ww1 ww2. The Asian domino game? It goes on and on. Call them cowboys but sometimes we need a big gun and u know it. So take the good with the bad and take the beast we need and try to control it. nuff said sorry about this i just had to say america came into ww1 somthing like 3 months before it ended.. they came just in time to kill the surrendering german troops.

You really need to rewrite this with some sort of point of reference... I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about.

Sorry... I expect people to know the references... America and the USSR played spy games... Influencing this and that and both had large terrorist networks consisting of other Nations even (Honduas, Guatemala, Indonesia, Israel...) Constantly bombing and attacking each other. Now, however, as there is no "other side" people over there are realizing whats happening and see the hardships in their country completely the responsibility of the imperial states, those state who use their power to make more money off the poorer states, so naturally, they turned on their masters and try and kill off Americans. It makes logical sense.

Thats all I'm saying... If you want to lower terrorism, stop participating in it... I think thats a lesson... ;P

Not of all, I guess, I personaly know some (not very good, but I know them).
And moreover: What is "THE" American culture.
As far as I have heard there are two different cultures. One conservative (especially Central USA) and one more liberal (esp. coastal states).

Wow. Something on topic! :)

The whole red/blue thing is a bunch of hooey. It's politics, sure, but we're all pretty much the same. There are REGIONAL differences in the US. IE: You can't get pizza in Nebraska (or, nothing a New Yorker would call pizza), and you can't get grits in Boston.

I live in Connecticut and work in New York City. I've been in over 30 states, and spend a lot of time in Washington DC and South Carolina. I never feel like I do when I'm in Prague or London or Vienna.

Sorry... I expect people to know the references... America and the USSR played spy games... Influencing this and that and both had large terrorist networks consisting of other Nations even (Honduas, Guatemala, Indonesia, Israel...) Constantly bombing and attacking each other. Now, however, as there is no "other side" people over there are realizing whats happening and see the hardships in their country completely the responsibility of the imperial states, those state who use their power to make more money off the poorer states, so naturally, they turned on their masters and try and kill off Americans. It makes logical sense.

Thats all I'm saying... If you want to lower terrorism, stop participating in it... I think thats a lesson... ;P

Here here. In my opinion the worst way to make a child like you is to kick him. The kicker is America, the 'CHild' the Islamic world. (The metaphor was not meant to be derogatory in anyway, I didn't mean to suggest that people from the Middle East are children etc.)

I have a new, and unposted (as of yet) reason for why people hate America:

(drum roll, please)

They hate your freedom. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I felt that this had not yet been discussed, and would contribute in real and tangible ways, to the discussion

You've put every non-American's point into a concise list. Good man :)

Thank you kindly, occasionally... My ranting makes sense... :fluffle:

I have a new, and unposted (as of yet) reason for why people hate America:

(drum roll, please)

They hate your freedom. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I felt that this had not yet been discussed, and would contribute in real and tangible ways, to the discussion

How does that work?

I don't think Americans have freedom at all. Abortion, for example? Other countries are far more leniant. If you're pro-choice, then that's not freedom. Surely it's opinion?

To a secularly minded non-christian, the US is about as far from freedom as one can get.

Originally Posted by Ubiqtorate
I have a new, and unposted (as of yet) reason for why people hate America:

(drum roll, please)

They hate your freedom.

Sorry, but I felt that this had not yet been discussed, and would contribute in real and tangible ways, to the discussion

It's the Americans who hate freedom. Apparently I'm unpartiotic according to the Right and Bush because I disagree with them... :rolleyes:

Apparently disagreeing with an injust war and saying so is unsupportive of a the country. I do support the war, I just don't agree with it. In 20 years they're going to put me in jail if I say something like this.

"You've been charged with treason."

"How so?"

"You said 'Make Peace Not War'"

"Oh... that... Well... "

"You know what this means?"

"Death"

"Worse. Castration!"

::faints:: :(

How does that work?

I don't think Americans have freedom at all. Abortion, for example? Other countries are far more leniant. If you're pro-choice, then that's not freedom. Surely it's opinion?

To a secularly minded non-christian, the US is about as far from freedom as one can get.

The rolling eyes denoted sarcasm. I guess its harder to convey without tone of voice.
It's a quote from King George W. ("They hate our freedom.")

Wow. Something on topic! :)

The whole red/blue thing is a bunch of hooey. It's politics, sure, but we're all pretty much the same. There are REGIONAL differences in the US. IE: You can't get pizza in Nebraska (or, nothing a New Yorker would call pizza), and you can't get grits in Boston.

I live in Connecticut and work in New York City. I've been in over 30 states, and spend a lot of time in Washington DC and South Carolina. I never feel like I do when I'm in Prague or London or Vienna.


.. Well conversely, when I enter America, I feel alot more fearful. Of course, that could be the numbers of statistics running through my head... Of course numbers like ... In 2002 ~150 Police officers were shot on the job in the US... Where as in my country there have been ~650 deaths on duty since the founding of my country. Those are BIG number changes... ;P

It's the Americans who hate freedom. Apparently I'm unpartiotic according to the Right and Bush because I disagree with them... :rolleyes:


Ubiq's being sarcastic by pointing out the reason Bush used for why the terrorists attacked the USA ;)

Finally! They released the "original" State of the Union address!!

http://www.compfused.com/directlink/106/


Type it in and see what you think!

How does that work?

I don't think Americans have freedom at all. Abortion, for example? Other countries are far more leniant. If you're pro-choice, then that's not freedom. Surely it's opinion?

To a secularly minded non-christian, the US is about as far from freedom as one can get.

First of all, freedom isn't about being able to do what you want. It's about being able to do anything you're entitled to do, by whatever authority or non-authority you choose.

Second of all, abortion is perfectly legal in this country.

Ubiq's being sarcastic by pointing out the reason Bush used for why the terrorists attacked the USA ;)

Very astute. You make me happy. :D

The rolling eyes denoted sarcasm. I guess its harder to convey without tone of voice.
It's a quote from King George W. ("They hate our freedom.")



And... it would seem he beat me to the punch in explaining that...

It's the Americans who hate freedom. Apparently I'm unpartiotic according to the Right and Bush because I disagree with them... :rolleyes:

Ok, I know some people may call things unpatriotic that aren't really, but saying that your country hates the thing it's supposed to stand for is without a doubt unpatriotic. If that were true, being unpatriotic wouldn't even be a bad thing, but it would still be unpatriotic. Of course, it's not.

First of all, freedom isn't about being able to do what you want. It's about being able to do anything you're entitled to do, by whatever authority or non-authority you choose.

Second of all, abortion is perfectly legal in this country.

'legal' it's twisted and contorted by many a state legislature so it's almost impossible in that region, and you're well aware of that I'm sure. Plus, freedom to do anything you're entitled to? Which is why communists, racists etc. aren't allowed to vocalise their opinions? That's ANARCHY. Anyone might consider different things to be 'entitlements'.

Very astute. You make me happy. :D


Glad to hear it mate. ;)

Erm....ahem...Rumania didn't really contribute to the western war effort. We gave up on Russia after the Brusilov Offensive and I wouldn't stay taking pro-active action at sea and on the western front is 'waiting'.

Really? So they weren't fighting the Austro-Hungarians? :rolleyes:

Pro active sea action??? What, the convoy system?? Putting up defenses that ought to have been in place in 1914?

Ah yes. That was in the summer of 1916 I believe. Good thing Russia & Germany didn't sign the Treaty of Brest-Livotsk until March 1918, eh?
Those 50+ divisions would have played hell at the Battle of the Somme. Might have wiped out the BEF. :(

Please list British accomplishments in 1917.
Losing the Battle of Gaza?
Losing the Battle of Cambrai?
The Canadians making the difference at Third Ypres?
The Aussies making the difference at Third Gaza?
(Funny how the Americans didn't have to fight Charlevoux Mill more than once...)

I don't see much, except for perhaps renaming the Royal line "Windsor" :p

Note: I like the UK and Europe very much. But I find your idea of history to be odd.

Erm...how is American culture popular? A minority of Chavs in Europe like Rap Music. Well hunkey dorey, isn't that just great. These people are looked down upon and MOCKED for being like Americans. Give me a break, the world hates America.

Are you like high or something? Have you perfected some new strain of crack? And might I have some? Chavs are hated for being thuggish, brainless morons. They were chavs before they happened to think rap was cool, and they will be chavs after they lose interest. The rest of Britain has figured this out some years ago.

Pop music, Rap music, Rock music, Hip-hop, Metal, Nu-Metal, modern Punk, Emo, Indie, almost every single kind of high-selling music is either an American effort, or is based on America styles. Most modern music stems, in one way or another, from Rock'n'Roll, in turn a descendant of Jazz - both American cultural items. Much of the world might hate America, but they sure as hell love its cultural exports.

Movies, I shouldn't even have to go into. Only two places produce a reasonable number of good movies; the US and the Orient. End of. Sure, occasionally you get Shaun of the Dead, or Bicycle Thieves, or La Haine, and... that's it. You don't get something of the standard of Million Dollar Baby coming along every year or two. Completely average American movies still tend to be worth watching.

Books may be the only place the rest of the world has a chance in, and I still can't think of too many good authors (Well, that's actually relevant to everywhere. Most of the good ones are dead. =/).

Videogames; the US, Japan, and the UK are the only places worthy of mention really. Plus Ubisoft. But the UK has fallen well behind in recent years (Since Psygnosis and Bullfrog went down, really.), which leaves, yet again, only the US and the Orient.

1. American's do not see themselves as indoctrinated by their corporations. (30% of all books in classrooms starting in the 1950s were Corporate Propoganda)

O___o some kind of proof, mayhap? And there's a big difference between indoctrination, and giving half an ear to a commercial which says 'Mt. Dew good!'

2. American's do not see the glaring bias in their media.(Changing Moral values, torture given a green light, constantly "fear inducing" faked terror attacks, Non discussion of critical events, squashing of public debate)

Yes, because the internet is completely closed off to all Americans, and they certainly cannot purchase alternate publications or view different TV/listen to different radio channels in their acquisition of the news. Besides which, it's nothing to European tabloids aren't at.

3. American's only hear select news outside their country.(The BBC and Al-Jazzerra might not be known to many Americans)

So does every other country on Earth. We only see other country's news reports here in England if something big happened there; generally to show reactions of the newsreaders (EG Earthquake in Japan, they show a Japanese newsreader.). Countries report their own news. If you want more, purchase a 24-hour news channel, and you'll get a little more. Or just use this internet thingy we're on right here.

4. Non-American's have more knowledge of world power structures.(They are directly effected by them)

So now it's a hideous crime to not care about something which barely affects you? Gee, damn, how about that! I wonder how much interest the average Polish citizen gives to the governmental and economic structure of India.

5. Non-American's feel the direct effects of American Imperialism.(They are directly bombed by them)

I'm not... ok, justify your 'Imperialism' comment, then we can talk.

6. American Corporations are the primary constituents of the "de-facto" world government (g8, WTO, people in the process of buying and selling the world)

Boo-hoo. They happened to be best at capitalism, because their government wasn't some hippy filled socialist delusion.

7. Such private tyrannies (fortune 500 companies) accounted for 67% of the GNP of the US in 1995. They are likely much more now.

So what?

8. The atmosphere of Anti-union has taken a foothold (considered whiners)(A very important part of the Declaration of Human Rights)

I don't see much NEED for unions, and given all the bitching about how great Americans have things compared to most of the world, I can't see why anyone would be pro-US-unions.

9. Rampant Corruption and cronyism (Enron, Halliburton, Worldcom)

Paul van Buitenen, Marta Andreasen, Charles Pasqua; do those names mean anything to you? As for cronyism, Jesus H. Christ, Europe is a thousand times worse than America could ever achieve.

10. Openly Overt Conflicts of Interest (Rupert Murdock, Owns Fox, gets 12% of the internet infrastructure in 1996 through the new Telecommunications Act that year... something made by the people given to private tyranny, which they use to control you.)

I don't even understand the point there. Your assumption that because a powerful person owns something, that something is inherantly flawed, is flawed in and of itself. Moreover, the apparent suggestion that there are no alternate forms of news available is, as I have pointed out, laughable. I don't see websites getting shut down left and right, and I doubt I shall.

11. Much evidence suggests the FBI played an important role in the last three major terrorist attacks on US soil, but no actual inquiries were allowed.

Evidence? Might we, pechance, see some of that evidence? The worst charge that can be levelled with actual seriousness is a gross case of negligence. A very serious accusation, no doubt, but hardly one which suggests your completely -insane- conspiracy theories.

12. FEMA interment capacity can now hold 50% of the American Population in FEMA camps.

Been playing a bit too much Deus Ex, have we? For Christ's sake, FEMA are disaster relief.

13. Military trained police officers, and PsyOps against civilians becoming common on US soil.

HOES NOES! PLZ NO PLZ! DON'T LET US HAVE WELL-TRAINED POLICEMEN! THINK OF TEH CRIMINZALS!!1!four!

14. Violence is publically endorsed.(Acceptance of War)

Violence... is publically... endorsed? First of all, a large number if not the majority of the America people opposed the War in Iraq. Violence may be accepted in certain quarters; this probably stems from the US's better grip on reality.

15. Christian Morality is militantly enforced.(Supression of Civil Rights)

Where? Proof, please? I agree that Christian morality has no place making government regulations but I don't see it outside of the gay marriage issue.

.. Well conversely, when I enter America, I feel alot more fearful. Of course, that could be the numbers of statistics running through my head... Of course numbers like ... In 2002 ~150 Police officers were shot on the job in the US... Where as in my country there have been ~650 deaths on duty since the founding of my country. Those are BIG number changes... ;P

Where are you from, and what is the population difference? :D

I have a new, and unposted (as of yet) reason for why people hate America:

(drum roll, please)

They hate your freedom. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I felt that this had not yet been discussed, and would contribute in real and tangible ways, to the discussion


Thats constantly used as a scapgoat by the politicos... They hate your freedom? Why should they care? If they wanted to attack freedom, then Canada and the Netherlands would have the abolsute shit blown out of them.

They hate what "freedom and progress" means to them. Usually it means another corporation will roll in, pretending to be a saviour. The US's policies on that country keep most of the individuals quite poor and willing to trade their bodies for money, since thats all they have (labour). So they make Nikes for 6c's a sneaker or something like that. They want to be more than slaves.
They dislike when they know the new infrastructure promised to Indonesia on the "side deal" which was announced by Bush shortly after the Tusnami was targetted to build roads and repair bridges to get the poor people back to the Western corporations sweatshops. It's very discouraging to be treated like that.
Those in the middle east really dislike being bombed indisciminatedly, or alternately not getting anything for the natural resources which are being removed from under their feet. Of course, the people feel they have a right to benefit from their own work an resources, but American or Russia corporations have always held the rights...

Do they hate your freedom? not at all... They want your freedom to stop oppressing them. And they recognize the way to be free (of your freedom)is to do what American's did to the British... Fight for it. Which they are going to do until they win the right to control their own lives.

Damn I can't find the quote

The reason you guys in Canada don't have as many police officer deaths is that you don't have as many black people! No, I'm not a racist... well somewhat... there are those people who speak Ebonics and Jive and after my experiences with them I'm racist against Ebonic speakers.

I go to a private school in Baltimore City. Through my observations the Black kids who speak like White, Asian, and Hispanic Marylanders act like them. I'm friends with those kids. However those who speak Ebonics are deragatroy to all those who don't speak "jive", are more prone to violence, vandalism, and sheer stupidity. I don't get along with them well. I think it has to do with the language and subulture

I'm ready to be falgged as a racist.. but this is from my personal experience... and i don't hate all blacks, just the Urban Jive-speaking subculture, the wiggers included.

Is that the U.S. "Government" and “culture" IS the People of the United States. Dislike those things and you dislike us, and I do mean US ALL!

You see, in the United States we have this little thing known as Free Will, and just as I have disliked the actions of the people who Represent me in the past, I understood that as an Untied States citizen my Government Represents ME!

If I don't like it, I have the Freedom and Liberty, in this Country, to do something to either change it or LEAVE if it has gotten to the point that I don't wish to be Represented by the Government of my Country.

So, while you are free to feel whatever way you like about our "Government and culture", please don't try and make it sound like it aint so bad just because YOU don't associate such things with the People, because many, if not most truly Patriotic U.S. citizens would tell you what I just did...

When Clinton was President, I didn't disassociate myself from the U.S., I did something to change it. He was still MY President, no matter how many Laws he broke and no matter what actions he took that I disagreed with. THAT is how a Democratic Republic WORKS!

Regards,
Gaar

"The culture and the government, but not the people. "

The culture and the government are reflective OF the people. :rolleyes:

The government WOULD be reflective of the people if it wasn't so corrupt. I'm an American, and I love the freedoms that I have, and I appreciate the opportunities that are in my life, but I don't think the government represents the people at all, it represents what rich, corrupt politicians want. I love this country, but I'm a little disillusioned at the moment.

Ok, I know some people may call things unpatriotic that aren't really, but saying that your country hates the thing it's supposed to stand for is without a doubt unpatriotic. If that were true, being unpatriotic wouldn't even be a bad thing, but it would still be unpatriotic. Of course, it's not.


Being unpatriotic is something to be cherished, not dismissed. when you have dissent, you have public discourse, and discourse can change the direction of the people. If they people you see speaking are all the same people, or come from a certain point of view (say... buisiness) then there is not public debate and the end result is the State does whatever it wants.

'legal' it's twisted and contorted by many a state legislature so it's almost impossible in that region, and you're well aware of that I'm sure. Plus, freedom to do anything you're entitled to? Which is why communists, racists etc. aren't allowed to vocalise their opinions? That's ANARCHY. Anyone might consider different things to be 'entitlements'.

I disagree. They even sell pills over the counter that you can take after procreation to destroy anything that may have formed. The worst you'll have to deal with is maybe a few people picketing the doorway. As for the second point, absolute freedom is not a 100% good thing without perfect morals. The most suiting level of freedom is anything that doesn't infringe on another person's freedom, and that includes the person's freedom to have a good quality of life. I'm not claiming America provides this; no one on earth could possibly provide this. America tries its best to provide this, however.

So, while you are free to feel whatever way you like about our "Government and culture", please don't try and make it sound like it aint so bad just because YOU don't associate such things with the People, because many, if not most truly Patriotic U.S. citizens would tell you what I just did...

Being Patriotic does not mean the way you represent it- disagreeing with your government or other things people would consider that are against your country does not mean you are unpatriotic

'legal' it's twisted and contorted by many a state legislature so it's almost impossible in that region, and you're well aware of that I'm sure. Plus, freedom to do anything you're entitled to? Which is why communists, racists etc. aren't allowed to vocalise their opinions? That's ANARCHY. Anyone might consider different things to be 'entitlements'.

Actually Anarchy is the freedom to do whatever you find your moral compass points you towards. Authoritarian is "Freedom to do anything WE entitle you to."...

See, like I said, people say remarkable rediculous things when they are indoctrinated... Look at that... "Freedom to do anything you're entitled to"... Who the hell sets who's entitled? If its anyone but the people, working under any framework other than the Declaration of Huamn Rights, then you are living in an Authoritarian (argueable Totalitarian in some aspect) State.

Is that the U.S. "Government" and “culture" IS the People of the United States. Dislike those things and you dislike us, and I do mean US ALL!

You see, in the United States we have this little thing known as Free Will, and just as I have disliked the actions of the people who Represent me in the past, I understood that as an Untied States citizen my Government Represents ME!

If I don't like it, I have the Freedom and Liberty, in this Country, to do something to either change it or LEAVE if it has gotten to the point that I don't wish to be Represented by the Government of my Country.

So, while you are free to feel whatever way you like about our "Government and culture", please don't try and make it sound like it aint so bad just because YOU don't associate such things with the People, because many, if not most truly Patriotic U.S. citizens would tell you what I just did...

When Clinton was President, I didn't disassociate myself from the U.S., I did something to change it. He was still MY President, no matter how many Laws he broke and no matter what actions he took that I disagreed with. THAT is how a Democratic Republic WORKS!

Regards,
Gaar

So say it turned out your congressman was a neo-nazi who eats natives in his spare time. As your elected represetative, do you hate him, or do you still view him as representative of your views?

As for the second point, absolute freedom is not a 100% good thing without perfect morals. The most suiting level of freedom is anything that doesn't infringe on another person's freedom, and that includes the person's freedom to have a good quality of life.
And doesn't this describe why Morals should not be "Legislated" and only "Regulated"? And if we applied that standard to the U.S> Constitution, it actually espouses the very belief you espouse in your assertion...

"The most suiting level of freedom is anything that doesn't infringe on another person's freedom"

That is the basis of the Constitution, ensuring the Individuals Right's. Somewhere we have gone off track and some of us are trying desperately to "fix" that... Others seem to believe they have some Right to force their "Morals" on others and make crimes of things that should not be crimes.

Why do you think that is?

Regards,
Gaar

Being unpatriotic is something to be cherished, not dismissed. when you have dissent, you have public discourse, and discourse can change the direction of the people. If they people you see speaking are all the same people, or come from a certain point of view (say... buisiness) then there is not public debate and the end result is the State does whatever it wants.

Ok, now I don't even know where to start. I said, there is a point where being unpatriotic is a good thing. If you truly believe your country is a bad thing, then being unpatriotic isn't bad at all. But USA definitely does not hate freedom. Now, a little public dissent is not unpatriotic, at least not in America, in fact it's defending the things we stand for. But despite what many claim, the current government does not discourage this practice.

Damn I can't find the quote

The reason you guys in Canada don't have as many police officer deaths is that you don't have as many black people! No, I'm not a racist... well somewhat... there are those people who speak Ebonics and Jive and after my experiences with them I'm racist against Ebonic speakers.

I go to a private school in Baltimore City. Through my observations the Black kids who speak like White, Asian, and Hispanic Marylanders act like them. I'm friends with those kids. However those who speak Ebonics are deragatroy to all those who don't speak "jive", are more prone to violence, vandalism, and sheer stupidity. I don't get along with them well. I think it has to do with the language and subulture

I'm ready to be falgged as a racist.. but this is from my personal experience... and i don't hate all blacks, just the Urban Jive-speaking subculture, the wiggers included.

I've never felt fear from any coloured individual while in my Country. In the US, I have. Of course, in America, Cultures and Races tend to flock together (protection? Familiarity?), not as much in Canada.

Damn I can't find the quote

The reason you guys in Canada don't have as many police officer deaths is that you don't have as many black people! No, I'm not a racist... well somewhat... there are those people who speak Ebonics and Jive and after my experiences with them I'm racist against Ebonic speakers.

I go to a private school in Baltimore City. Through my observations the Black kids who speak like White, Asian, and Hispanic Marylanders act like them. I'm friends with those kids. However those who speak Ebonics are deragatroy to all those who don't speak "jive", are more prone to violence, vandalism, and sheer stupidity. I don't get along with them well. I think it has to do with the language and subulture

I'm ready to be falgged as a racist.. but this is from my personal experience... and i don't hate all blacks, just the Urban Jive-speaking subculture, the wiggers included.

Listen mate, I would hate for you to get beat o a pulp once you leave your private school due to talk like that, so a quick lesson. Violence is a result of economic desparity between rich and poor. Basically the bigger gap there is the more violence. It's not exclusive to any particular ethnicity.

I know from personal experience that going to a private school can shelter you, which is why I spent a year living and working amoung the poor and homeless after secondary school.

I've never felt fear from any coloured individual while in my Country. In the US, I have. Of course, in America, Cultures and Races tend to flock together (protection? Familiarity?), not as much in Canada.

The college I went to was 90 % foreign exchange students. I liked it. I never heard of violence or racism there, and when I asked my freind Badmos from Nigeria he said ne never realy saw it either.

Is that the U.S. "Government" and “culture" IS the People of the United States. Dislike those things and you dislike us, and I do mean US ALL!

You see, in the United States we have this little thing known as Free Will, and just as I have disliked the actions of the people who Represent me in the past, I understood that as an Untied States citizen my Government Represents ME!

If I don't like it, I have the Freedom and Liberty, in this Country, to do something to either change it or LEAVE if it has gotten to the point that I don't wish to be Represented by the Government of my Country.

So, while you are free to feel whatever way you like about our "Government and culture", please don't try and make it sound like it aint so bad just because YOU don't associate such things with the People, because many, if not most truly Patriotic U.S. citizens would tell you what I just did...

When Clinton was President, I didn't disassociate myself from the U.S., I did something to change it. He was still MY President, no matter how many Laws he broke and no matter what actions he took that I disagreed with. THAT is how a Democratic Republic WORKS!

Regards,
Gaar

Proof indoctrination works... Thank you Gaar! ;P

"He was still MY President, no matter how many Laws he broke and no matter what actions he took that I disaggreed with." - God, I gotta write that down...

So... Lets say your a German living during WWII, Chancellor Hitler says "Blah Blah Blah, Bomb people not like us Blah Blah..." and you say to justify his actions... (I'll stop typing because the train of logic should be obvious as to where I am going with this...)

Ok, now I don't even know where to start. I said, there is a point where being unpatriotic is a good thing. If you truly believe your country is a bad thing, then being unpatriotic isn't bad at all. But USA definitely does not hate freedom. Now, a little public dissent is not unpatriotic, at least not in America, in fact it's defending the things we stand for. But despite what many claim, the current government does not discourage this practice.


If Americans tuly belive what their country stands for then Dissent in the epitome of Patriotism.
It was founded by dissenters, after all.

Listen mate, I would hate for you to get beat o a pulp once you leave your private school due to talk like that, so a quick lesson. Violence is a result of economic desparity between rich and poor. Basically the bigger gap there is the more violence. It's not exclusive to any particular ethnicity.

I know from personal experience that going to a private school can shelter you, which is why I spent a year living and working amoung the poor and homeless after secondary school.

The only way Americans see it fit for you to express your opinions is by getting beat up on right? So what you say is that the people the statement goes to will threaten (which is infringing his rights) and beat him up? Sounds like Americans are particularly stupid in terms of solving problems

So say it turned out your congressman was a neo-nazi who eats natives in his spare time. As your elected represetative, do you hate him, or do you still view him as representative of your views?
Well, if it were discovered that he ate people, I am pretty sure he would be arrested and disqualified from his seat, and he would no longer Represent me...

And then I would pray for his/her sick demented soul.

And shame on me for Electing the scum bag, I should have done a bit of legwork before I decided who was going to Represent me, shame on me for not being fully informed BEFORE pulling that lever.

You see, I believe we all share the responsibility in what our Government does in our name. And if we can't be bothered to learn how it work and try to make it more representative of us, then perhaps some shouldn’t bother to Bitch about what it does in their name.

But hey, in this Country, even the People who do nothing to change it have a Right to Bitch about it and what it is doing in THEIR name...

Regards,
Gaar

I disagree. They even sell pills over the counter that you can take after procreation to destroy anything that may have formed. The worst you'll have to deal with is maybe a few people picketing the doorway. As for the second point, absolute freedom is not a 100% good thing without perfect morals. The most suiting level of freedom is anything that doesn't infringe on another person's freedom, and that includes the person's freedom to have a good quality of life. I'm not claiming America provides this; no one on earth could possibly provide this. America tries its best to provide this, however.


I think living in other societies or countries would show you that the level of freedom in the US is far lower than in Canada or in probably most of Europe. I'm not saying some in the government don't try, but corruption is rampant...

The only way Americans see it fit for you to express your opinions is by getting beat up on right? So what you say is that the people the statement goes to will threaten (which is infringing his rights) and beat him up? Sounds like Americans are particularly stupid in terms of solving problems


I didn't mean it as a threat, and I'm sorry it was taken that way. I'm in no way trying to infridge on others oppinions, I merely wished to point out that some people wouldn't take kindly to being refered to as the cause of violence.

And doesn't this describe why Morals should not be "Legislated" and only "Regulated"? And if we applied that standard to the U.S> Constitution, it actually espouses the very belief you espouse in your assertion...

"The most suiting level of freedom is anything that doesn't infringe on another person's freedom"

That is the basis of the Constitution, ensuring the Individuals Right's. Somewhere we have gone off track and some of us are trying desperately to "fix" that... Others seem to believe they have some Right to force their "Morals" on others and make crimes of things that should not be crimes.

Why do you think that is?

Regards,
Gaar

Well, despite how the extremists on *both* sides try, most legislations that harm people's personal freedoms have been prevented. You can say this law or that law violates freedoms, and your opposition can tell you how they are protecting themselves from having their freedoms violated. It's mostly opinions. You can't say who has the right to what without morals. Laws are there to ensure people act off morals. Not Christian morals, just the common morals of the people, be that what it may.

Well, if it were discovered that he ate people, I am pretty sure he would be arrested and disqualified from his seat, and he would no longer Represent me...

And then I would pray for his/her sick demented soul.

And shame on me for Electing the scum bag, I should have done a bit of legwork before I decided who was going to Represent me, shame on me for not being fully informed BEFORE pulling that lever.

You see, I believe we all share the responsibility in what our Government does in our name. And if we can't be bothered to learn how it work and try to make it more representative of us, then perhaps some shouldn’t bother to Bitch about what it does in their name.

But hey, in this Country, even the People who do nothing to change it have a Right to Bitch about it and what it is doing in THEIR name...

Regards,
Gaar

As far as I'm concerned, it is possible to hate the actions of a government or govt. forces
(for instance, My Lai) without hating the people who elected the government. When you only have two options to vote for, you pick the best available, even if you disagree with some of their policies.

As far as I'm concerned, it is possible to hate the actions of a government or govt. forces
(for instance, My Lai) without hating the people who elected the government. When you only have two options to vote for, you pick the best available, even if you disagree with some of their policies.


I strongly recommend you find a third option. Unfortunately in the cards is seems very seriously that War will likely be the thiird option.

Once the US goes after Iran (They are trying selling oil through Europe instead of the US) then I suspect most countries will be building military defences in preparation for US invasions.

I think living in other societies or countries would show you that the level of freedom in the US is far lower than in Canada or in probably most of Europe. I'm not saying some in the government don't try, but corruption is rampant...

Could you be specific? I can think of a few possibilities... Some countries are more lax about drugs. That's infringing on your own right to a quality life, not to mention risking other people's safety over what you might do in a drug induced state. I know a lot of countries don't have the right to bear arms... Infringing on one person's right to not get shot, maybe, but laws are in place to try and minimize that. The freedom to defend yourself from being shot is worth it. What else?

"He was still MY President, no matter how many Laws he broke and no matter what actions he took that I disaggreed with." - God, I gotta write that down...
Please do... You see, I did everything within my power as an individual citizen to see that he was VOTED out of Power and made to account for his Lawlessness. But alas, the Democratic principles won out, in a very bi-partisan Vote, and he remained my President. I CHALLENGED that Authority, and I was told NO by the "People". Something about a Democracy you are having a hard time understanding?

So... Lets say your a German living during WWII, Chancellor Hitler says "Blah Blah Blah, Bomb people not like us Blah Blah..." and you say to justify his actions... (I'll stop typing because the train of logic should be obvious as to where I am going with this...)
I say, as a German during that time, if I don't do everything in my power to try and change what is happening or even if I do and it doesn't change, I have two choices...

I can either LIVE with what is being done in my name by those that have been duly Elected to do such, or I can LEAVE and find a Country that does better Represent my person values and beliefs.

Is that any clearer for you? Or are you going to try and convince me that Hitler was the only "bad guy" in Germany and everyone else shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of the man THEY ELECTED?!?!

Regards,
Gaar

If Americans tuly belive what their country stands for then Dissent in the epitome of Patriotism.
It was founded by dissenters, after all.

ok, again with the repeating what I just said. Are you supporting me?

One thing I've noticed in a lot of these debates is that people often refer to the US, Canada, India, China and Europe, usually favouring one side as they're entitled to do. However, there is one problem here people overlook and that's that Europe is comprised of at 15-20 countries with different ideals and cultures. It's hard to regard Europe as a seperate unit in this context because it feuds with itself because of these clashes in interest. The former country of Yugoslavia and the conflicts in it's product nations (Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia), as mentioned earlier, could have been dealt with a lot better, but if the same situation had happened in say, India, they would have reacted a lot quicker because being a country, only one authority would have been required.
This is because Europe is full of countries which were imperial powers until the 1930's who still have past grudges. They still have their own governments. In a way, the EU is like the UN on a lesser scale but without the complexities of it's additional councils (ie the Security Council) and only recently did it develop a peacekeeping force. Also, with the Eastern European countries getting back on their feet after corrupted Soviet domination at a pretty slow rate, due to lack of money available, Europe is hard to summarise as a region because there is such a disparity (that said, countries like Estonia are making an impressive amount of progress).
It is with this in mind, that people must acknowledge that it is quite extreme to hate the entire of the United States because it was formed from some the similar peoples who inhabited Europe (albeit the more pious ones. Whether this is seen as positive or negative is purely personal opinion). For example, when the USA went into the war with Iraq, as in Britain, Germany, France and various other countries, there were protests. As much as the administrations of such countries said "Yes, we will fight the Iraqis", you can only disagree with the decision made or the protestors. Even then, that's too vague as several reasons for either decision existed.
This is why total xenophobia should have no place - a decision made by a country was really made by a few hundred out of millions, and when did the last government you elected deliver every promise and intent you expected them to? You may dislike a decision, but you must remember that your country's never perfect. You in that context is addressed to everyone. For example, the way Britain exploited India with salt taxation and cruelties under imperial rule was completly and utterly wrong. I say this as a Englishman. I'm not proud of it, but I have to accept that I am one. Nowadays, I can still point out several areas in which my country's going wrong, yet I can find fault in others as well, but even then, I must remember it is my own opinion.

While I'm not a very religious person, the most appropriate quote I can think of here is attibuted to a parable in the Bible (although this is a paraphrase) - How can you take out the splinter from your brother's eye when you have a log in yours?

I appreciate that this is a long post. Thanks if you took the time to read it.

As far as I'm concerned, it is possible to hate the actions of a government or govt. forces
(for instance, My Lai) without hating the people who elected the government. When you only have two options to vote for, you pick the best available, even if you disagree with some of their policies.
Yes, you may dislike or even HATE something that is done in your name, just as I hated what Clinton did, but that doesn't make it any less an action of the Government that Represents me, does it?

I hated that Clinton wasn't Impeached, but he wasn't and that was done in my name... And look, someone is holding "me" accountable for it now, no matter how much I disliked the action personally, just as they should.

:D

Regards,
Gaar

I strongly recommend you find a third option. Unfortunately in the cards is seems very seriously that War will likely be the thiird option.

Once the US goes after Iran (They are trying selling oil through Europe instead of the US) then I suspect most countries will be building military defences in preparation for US invasions.

I meant that when a US voter only has two choices, it's difficult to chose. In Canada, where I live, things are a bit better.

Well, despite how the extremists on *both* sides try, most legislations that harm people's personal freedoms have been prevented. You can say this law or that law violates freedoms, and your opposition can tell you how they are protecting themselves from having their freedoms violated. It's mostly opinions. You can't say who has the right to what without morals. Laws are there to ensure people act off morals. Not Christian morals, just the common morals of the people, be that what it may.
In order for a "crime" to be committed someone's Right's must be infringed, right?

"The culture and the government, but not the people. "

The culture and the government are reflective OF the people. :rolleyes:

Doesn't that depend on what part of the country you're talking about? If you think the whole country is a giant, uniform blob, you're delusional. We here in Massachusetts (one of what I like to call "The Rational States") are very different from the people in places like, say, Texas, where there is a very different culture. We're also not exactly represented in the executive branch of the federal government, which would probably ship the lot of us off to Guantanamo Bay as seditionists if it had its way.

Saying "the culture and government are reflective" of the entire US population would be like saying that all Chinese people people are good at math, or that all French people are obnoxious, or that all British people are lousy cooks, or all Irish people are lushes. Ridiculous stereotypes all.

Yes, you may dislike or even HATE something that is done in your name, just as I hated what Clinton did, but that doesn't make it any less an action of the Government that Represents me, does it?

I hated that Clinton wasn't Impeached, but he wasn't and that was done in my name... And look, someone is holding "me" accountable for it now, no matter how much I disliked the action personally, just as they should.

:D

Regards,
Gaar

If someone wants to hold me accountable for Jean Chretien and the Shawinigate scandal- go ahead. But I'm not. You are not responsible for the actions of a govt. you have never supported. Claiming that you are is selling your right to freedom and personal choice; contracting it out to your elected representative.
The leader may be responsible for the followers, but the followers are not always responsible for the leader.

In order for a "crime" to be committed someone's Right's must be infringed, right?

Are you trying to corner me here? Well, yes, theoretically. What crime do you have in mind?

I think living in other societies or countries would show you that the level of freedom in the US is far lower than in Canada or in probably most of Europe. I'm not saying some in the government don't try, but corruption is rampant...
Really!?!?

Shall we compare? You know, the things your "Government" forces on its People are not Freedoms, right? Those are your Freedoms that you have "given" to the Government, right? Anytime the Government is doing for the People what the People could very well do for themselves that isn't "more" Freedom but less, right?

Just want to make sure these things are "understood" before such a discussion is begun...

Regards,
Gaar

Are you trying to corner me here? Well, yes, theoretically. What crime do you have in mind?
Drug Laws

I have concluded that the United States of America and Europe have chosen fundamentally different paths, and so our values are very different.

There's simply no point in criticising one another any longer, and admittedly there was a degree of my own interest at stake when I posted this thread.

What is has taught me, and probably any of us with half a brain, is that Americans and Europeans will always have their differences. One continent has chosen the liberal path, the other seems to have chosen the conservative path.

Whether this changes remains to be seen.

Point is, that the United States is a world of power, Europe of paradise.

Europeans by and large are happy to live in liberal democracies that don't really get involved in wars, that's their idea of a Utopia. They've tried, diplomatically, to change things in Iran and even tried in Iraq. They've taken a predominantly defensive stance towards terrorism. American people on the whole seem to feel very patriotically about their country and recent support for the war against Terror would suggest they're proactively trying to sort out the world's problems in the manner they perceive to be the correct one.

That's a generalisation, but from what I can see it's the case.

Point is, I think the biggest difference between the two is whether to solve problems through force or through diplomacy/standing back and letting things take their natural course. In a way, this is representative of what the continents are...one is an Old World which has lived through most of the history, the other is a New World whcih is only now experience the peak of its greatness. Europeans hate the young teenage America because he rushes around, thinks he knows best. Americans hate doddery old Europe because it sits back, seems a little apathetic and too wise and thinks he knows best.

We think that the other thinks he knows best and has it right. It's up to us to decide which 'side' we agree with.

If you want the middle ground, the UK is probably just about there and that's why I like living here.

It's very, very important to remember...finally, that both Europe and America are democratic continents and they both stand for the same things (funadamentally): The good of humanity.

They both think they're doing the right thing for people as a whole, so surely neither continent is evil or wrong in its motives? Even if we think their conduct incorrect?

Just food for thought.

If someone wants to hold me accountable for Jean Chretien and the Shawinigate scandal- go ahead. But I'm not. You are not responsible for the actions of a govt. you have never supported. Claiming that you are is selling your right to freedom and personal choice; contracting it out to your elected representative.
The leader may be responsible for the followers, but the followers are not always responsible for the leader.
Well then, therein lies the difference between you and I...

I do not believe, for a second, that just because the "other side" wins the day that I am no longer responsible for the actions of the Government that Represents me...

We will have to agree to disagree on that then, because your lack of faith in the System in which you live is not something I share as a value. My faith never falters; it is however tested at times.

And when it is tested, I try to do something about why it is being tested, not disavow my faith simply because I don't like something.

Regards,
Gaar

Point is, that the United States is a world of power, Europe of paradise.

Europeans by and large are happy to live in liberal democracies that don't really get involved in wars, that's their idea of a Utopia. They've tried, diplomatically, to change things in Iran and even tried in Iraq. They've taken a predominantly defensive stance towards terrorism. American people on the whole seem to feel very patriotically about their country and recent support for the war against Terror would suggest they're proactively trying to sort out the world's problems in the manner they perceive to be the correct one.
So, Europe basically starts the two largest and bloodiest Wars we have ever seen on Earth, within just the last century, and it is Europe and not the U.S. that is a "Paradise" and doesn't want War!?!?

Just how does that work, in your mind?

Regards,
Gaar

Well then, therein lies the difference between you and I...

I do not believe, for a second, that just because the "other side" wins the day that I am no longer responsible for the actions of the Government that Represents me...

We will have to agree to disagree on that then, because your lack of faith in the System in which you live is not something I share as a value. My faith never falters; it is however tested at times.

And when it is tested, I try to do something about why it is being tested, not disavow my faith simply because I don't like something.

Regards,
Gaar

We will need to agree to disagree. I have never had faith in the system, it is what it is, and we all operate in it, but since I didn't decide how it got here, I merely accept it as something I must use and live within and change if I can. I don't view it as something that I am responsible for.
My faith is toward things I consider more worthy of it.

So, Europe basically starts the two largest and bloodiest Wars we have ever seen on Earth, within just the last century, and it is Europe and not the U.S. that is a "Paradise" and doesn't want War!?!?

Just how does that work, in your mind?

Regards,
Gaar

A serbian assassin, the Tsar and the Kaiser are not Europe.

Hitler isn't Europe, if you remember Britain tried to appease him. We're the peaceful ones right? Earlier you were criticising appeasement. Just where do you stand ;)

America is starting bloody wars as we speak.

Drug Laws

I mentioned this already on this thread. For one thing, on several drugs, people lose judgement on a much greater scale than they would on alcohol. They can become a danger to several people. For another thing, it infringes on the buyer's right to buy a safe product. Personally, I think pot should be legalized, but not importing or distributing of it. It's pretty much the same difference; just a technicality. Anyway, I said most. And there are plenty of countries in Europe that don't allow drugs.

Oh, yeah, and another thing is that on the greater scale of things, having drugs on our streets has been proven to increase crime.

I have concluded that the United States of America and Europe have chosen fundamentally different paths, and so our values are very different.
...
They both think they're doing the right thing for people as a whole, so surely neither continent is evil or wrong in its motives? Even if we think their conduct incorrect?

Just food for thought.

I wouldn't put it quite the way you did... For one thing, I'm sure we'd all like to live in paradise, Americans believe this can be achieved in basically the same way Europeans do, except that paradise can't possibly last as long as there is a continually growing population of people who want us all dead. And they don't want us dead just because we have a few embassies and military bases in their countries, which is about what we had before this war started, they want us dead because they have a fundamental difference of morals with us, and they believe violence is the way to resolve this.
On the other hand, Europeans see Americans as just making things worse. They believe our cause is unfounded and paranoid, and only making trouble. They believe that leaving these people to their own affairs will ensure their own safety, allowing them to live in their "paradise".

But now I've rambled much longer than I intended to. Mostly you seem to have a reasonable perspective on things. But of course, this could all just as easily change in the next round of elections. Europe changes slowly, America changes frequently. That fits in your analogy as well, I think.

I mentioned this already on this thread. For one thing, on several drugs, people lose judgement on a much greater scale than they would on alcohol. They can become a danger to several people. For another thing, it infringes on the buyer's right to buy a safe product. Personally, I think pot should be legalized, but not importing or distributing of it. It's pretty much the same difference; just a technicality. Anyway, I said most. And there are plenty of countries in Europe that don't allow drugs.

Oh, yeah, and another thing is that on the greater scale of things, having drugs on our streets has been proven to increase crime.
And as I have mentioned, on more than one occassion...

Regulate away, just as we do with Alcohol and Tobacco!

But where do you garner any "Constitutional Right" or even "Absolute Right" to outlaw somthing that does no one any harm?

Regards,
Gaar

And as I have mentioned, on more than one occassion...

Regulate away, just as we do with Alcohol and Tobacco!

But where do you garner any "Constitutional Right" or even "Absolute Right" to outlaw somthing that does no one any harm?

Regards,
Gaar

This doesn't belong here.

A serbian assassin, the Tsar and the Kaiser are not Europe.

Hitler isn't Europe, if you remember Britain tried to appease him. We're the peaceful ones right? Earlier you were criticising appeasement. Just where do you stand ;)

America is starting bloody wars as we speak.

Actually, when viewed in a historical context we start blood light wars. It is almost medeival in its style. If you read about many medeival and ancient battles it seems like one side always took horrendous casualties while the other side got off light. (whether this is just propaganda by the winner we can't know).
These days the US tends to inflict high casualties upon its enemies while getting of light ourselves.

A serbian assassin, the Tsar and the Kaiser are not Europe.

Yeah so... You guys went to War over it, we didn't. You guys drug our asses in BOTH times, remember?
Hitler isn't Europe, if you remember Britain tried to appease him. We're the peaceful ones right? Earlier you were criticising appeasement. Just where do you stand ;)

America is starting bloody wars as we speak.
Yes, Britain was busy appeasing him and ignoring Churchill, until they NEEDED Churchill...

I am against appeasement, when did I ever support appeasement? I believe I support self-responsibility, and when you see your neighbor beating his wife you should do something about it.

Unfortunately, "your neighbor" can live down the street a bit in this day and age...

Regards,
Gaar

This is an extremely silly thread.

Stuff about America sucks. Stuff about Europe sucks. Everybody sucks! We're humans! Humans are, by and large, SUCKY!

Thank you, I'll be here all night.

We will need to agree to disagree. I have never had faith in the system, it is what it is, and we all operate in it, but since I didn't decide how it got here, I merely accept it as something I must use and live within and change if I can. I don't view it as something that I am responsible for.
My faith is toward things I consider more worthy of it.
Yes, and I have looked at my "System" as well as all others and compared the "empirical evidence" of the successes of these Systems and decided that the U.S. is indeed the best System that fits my own "Moral" code, as it were, and therefore my "faith" in my System...

I am sorry you have not found a "System" to reconcile yourself in such a manner... Perhaps some day you will.

Regards,
Gaar

Actually, when viewed in a historical context we start blood light wars. It is almost medeival in its style. If you read about many medeival and ancient battles it seems like one side always took horrendous casualties while the other side got off light. (whether this is just propaganda by the winner we can't know).
These days the US tends to inflict high casualties upon its enemies while getting of light ourselves.
Sorry, while I tend to agree I don't like to have such discussions, because they look as though you are trying to minimize the reality of DEATH in War...

I prefer to say that... "Freedom isn't Free, and War is Hell." And sometimes the latter needs to be performed in order to obtain or ensure the first.

Regards,
Gaar

Sorry, while I tend to agree I don't like to have such discussions, because they look as though you are trying to minimize the reality of DEATH in War...

I prefer to say that... "Freedom isn't Free, and War is Hell." And sometimes the latter needs to be performed in order to obtain or ensure the first.

Regards,
Gaar

Oh, I agree, each life lost in a war is terrible. I just find the cyclical nature of history interesting. We move from Total war to Gentlemen's Warfare and back again and again, each time people arguing whether or not this form of war is effective or evil.
In fact so much of our lives are cyclical. What comes around. . .

Oh, yeah, and another thing is that on the greater scale of things, having drugs on our streets has been proven to increase crime.
Yeah, when you make things crimes, that are not crimes, that is going to tend to happen.

And here is what I contend...

When you make Laws that are easily broken and no ill affect comes of it, People begin to look at Laws in a less "respectful" manner. They begin to see the Law as something someone is trying to force on them and not something that ensures the Societies security.

So people start seeing the Law as something less than it is, an ultimate Authority over securing a persons Right's, not to take them away...

So when we find a need to "Regulate" rather than "Legislate" something those Laws become more and more ignored or discounted as something less than what they are.

Regards,
Gaar

To Christ it does. Sorry, but i'd rather please Christ than you. I'm pretty sure Christ would be on the side of the US in terms of IRaq...I dont think so.

Yeah, when you make things crimes, that are not crimes, that is going to tend to happen.

And here is what I contend...

When you make Laws that are easily broken and no ill affect comes of it, People begin to look at Laws in a less "respectful" manner. They begin to see the Law as something someone is trying to force on them and not something that ensures the Societies security.

So people start seeing the Law as something less than it is, an ultimate Authority over securing a persons Right's, not to take them away...

So when we find a need to "Regulate" rather than "Legislate" something those Laws become more and more ignored or discounted as something less than what they are.

Regards,
Gaar

I guess I need to clarify *other* laws. And the main reason is that once a person is addicted to some of the harder drugs, he could do just about anything to get it. He loses the ability to function in society. The only way to survive is to make enough revenue stealing, prostituting, and begging to support his drug habbit and have enough for food. It's a serious problem, and crack makes it happen much more than legal substances like alcohol does.

And as I have mentioned, on more than one occassion...

Regulate away, just as we do with Alcohol and Tobacco!

But where do you garner any "Constitutional Right" or even "Absolute Right" to outlaw somthing that does no one any harm?

Regards,
Gaar

What are you talking about? What's being regulated that does no one harm? At the very least, drugs are harming the user. Even if not in a significant physical way, mentally it's a sure way to deaden your synapses.

What are you talking about? What's being regulated that does no one harm? At the very least, drugs are harming the user. Even if not in a significant physical way, mentally it's a sure way to deaden your synapses.
Yes, for a bit and they come back as good as new...

There are a lot of Medical applications for such a Drug.

And eating too much fat "harms" the user, we going to outlaw fat too? How about coffee, we see how some people get on too much caffien? Chocolate? I hear it is addictive and is another cause of people being overweight, which is a "cost" to the Society?

Do you see where this can go? Just how far do we go with such things?

Regards,
Gaar

I guess I need to clarify *other* laws. And the main reason is that once a person is addicted to some of the harder drugs, he could do just about anything to get it. He loses the ability to function in society. The only way to survive is to make enough revenue stealing, prostituting, and begging to support his drug habbit and have enough for food. It's a serious problem, and crack makes it happen much more than legal substances like alcohol does.
You mean the way an Alcoholic does?

This is an extremely silly thread.

Stuff about America sucks. Stuff about Europe sucks. Everybody sucks! We're humans! Humans are, by and large, SUCKY!

Thank you, I'll be here all night.
aww he's offline, but he speaks pearls of wizdom

You mean the way an Alcoholic does?

Like I said, crack does it much more than alcohol does. Most people can drink alcohol without becoming an alcohol. People who use crack more than experimentally find themselves facing serious risk of hopeless addiction. It's not sheer principle, the freedoms saved need to be weighed against the freedoms lost.

Bush is just another wanna be Neo Nazi

Hes turning into hitler

He wants POWER POWER POWER skrew everyone else, he goes on about jesus and peace but all he wants is to rule the world

please tell me if you agree


remylebeau6201@Aol.com

The government WOULD be reflective of the people if it wasn't so corrupt. I'm an American, and I love the freedoms that I have, and I appreciate the opportunities that are in my life, but I don't think the government represents the people at all, it represents what rich, corrupt politicians want. I love this country, but I'm a little disillusioned at the moment.

Psst... it's always been like this. :(
(At least, since the Industrial Revolution.)

Like I said, crack does it much more than alcohol does. Most people can drink alcohol without becoming an alcohol. People who use crack more than experimentally find themselves facing serious risk of hopeless addiction. It's not sheer principle, the freedoms saved need to be weighed against the freedoms lost.
Shall we tell that to the hundreds of thousands of "VICTIMS" of drunken drivers every year?

How many U.S. citizens do you believe died at the hands of ALL "Hard Drugs" last year? Now compare that number to the vitims of drunken driving... and now the victims of Tobacco use...

Shall we go on?

Regards,
Gaar

Yes, for a bit and they come back as good as new...

There are a lot of Medical applications for such a Drug.

And eating too much fat "harms" the user, we going to outlaw fat too? How about coffee, we see how some people get on too much caffien? Chocolate? I hear it is addictive and is another cause of people being overweight, which is a "cost" to the Society?

Do you see where this can go? Just how far do we go with such things?

Regards,
Gaar

Maybe I should explain something to you before you hurt yourself permanently (assuming you practice what you preach): only very limited amounts of brain damage are reversible. Even then, your brain just has to work around the damaged parts. Eventually, you'll wind up with detrimental damage, and become what can only be described as a "burned out hippie". I've got nothing against hippies, but it's just not smart to dabble too much in these things. On the larger scale, drug dependancy still becomes a burden on society, ultimately harming everyone. Lawmakers weighed out the freedoms saved versus the freedoms lost in outlawing pot, and apparently the majority of Americans finds that the freedoms saved are more important. If America ever changes its mind, it's not set in stone.

Like I said, crack does it much more than alcohol does. Most people can drink alcohol without becoming an alcohol. People who use crack more than experimentally find themselves facing serious risk of hopeless addiction. It's not sheer principle, the freedoms saved need to be weighed against the freedoms lost.
And I have said nothing about not being able to "Regulate" it, even to the point it may have to be taken in a Clinic or what not...

I am just trying to get you to address where you get a Right to outlaw it entirely?

Regards,
Gaar

Maybe I should explain something to you before you hurt yourself permanently (assuming you practice what you preach): only very limited amounts of brain damage are reversible. Even then, your brain just has to work around the damaged parts. Eventually, you'll wind up with detrimental damage, and become what can only be described as a "burned out hippie". I've got nothing against hippies, but it's just not smart to dabble too much in these things. On the larger scale, drug dependancy still becomes a burden on society, ultimately harming everyone. Lawmakers weighed out the freedoms saved versus the freedoms lost in outlawing pot, and apparently the majority of Americans finds that the freedoms saved are more important. If America ever changes its mind, it's not set in stone.
Perhaps you need to do just a bit of Reasearch on the matter...

Marijuana has been shown to do NO BRAIN DAMAGE what-so-ever. It has the perfect receptor in the Brain. Many Scientist believe this is because it has been "used" by Humans for longer than we know. It is one of the oldest "cultivated" crops known to man. Likely because it had so many uses.

Regards,
Gaar

EDIT: http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/marijuana/3mjmyths.html
http://www.cannabis.com/untoldstory/hemp_9.shtml
http://www.lovedup.co.uk/artic/14.html

This Has Nothing To Do With The Thread!!

Shall we tell that to the hundreds of thousands of "VICTIMS" of drunken drivers every year?

How many U.S. citizens do you believe died at the hands of ALL "Hard Drugs" last year? Now compare that number to the vitims of drunken driving... and now the victims of Tobacco use...

Shall we go on?

Regards,
Gaar

OK, now let's assume for a minute that crack was every bit as common as alcohol. or smoking. Not a pretty picture. Americans, despite the statistics, still value these freedoms above the freedoms gained from outlawing them. The same is not true for drugs.

This Has Nothing To Do With The Thread!!

Sorry, they started it. I'll quit if they will. No, I'll quit regardless. Sorry about that.

Back in High School, why did you hate that fat annoying kid who seriously claimed to be good at everything - academics, athletics - when he really was a rather dim candle and had no athletetic ability. He would always act pompous, bragging about his amazing abilities and qualities, which the only thing he had less than abilitiy were friends. He would have an annoying voice, often times high, or he'd lisp, or it would sound very much like his mouth was full of saliva. He would talk fast and incoherently, and no matter how valid his point you still wouldn't want to listen to it and it would still sound stupid, mostly deafened by your own seething hatred. God, I hate people like that... (I'm still in High School) This I hope was an accurate analogy portraying America.

Backed up by evidence? Pssh! That was all the evidence I needed!

(Heh Anal is in Analogy hehehehehehe... yeah I'm American)

America's more like the captain of the football team who's also on the honor roll and gets the hottest girl in school. America backs up their arrogance. You're implying that they don't, and also, as an American yourself, you're more than wrong.

America's more like the captain of the football team who's also on the honor roll and gets the hottest girl in school. America backs up their arrogance. You're implying that they don't, and also, as an American yourself, you're more than wrong.

Ok. ENOUGH with the schoolboy metaphors:

Britain is the neutral kid, who takes the middle ground and actually decides what his opinion is when he's lined up what he considers to be the arguments of either side.

Europe and America are two kids on either side, trying to get the better of the other.

Neither is the fat impotent kid, neither the Rugby star. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

Ok. ENOUGH with the schoolboy metaphors:

Britain is the neutral kid, who takes the middle ground and actually decides what his opinion is when he's lined up what he considers to be the arguments of either side.

Europe and America are two kids on either side, trying to get the better of the other.

Neither is the fat impotent kid, neither the Rugby star. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

lmao...so after you yell at me for making a "schoolboy metaphor" you continue to make not one, but three of your own. :rolleyes:

America is arrogant, but face it, it's fun to gripe about the winner (because, face it, we are). Sometimes we (I'm American) deserve it, other times we do not.

Doesn't that depend on what part of the country you're talking about?

Nope. And if you buy into the red-blue state thing, you need to turn off the pundits you're listening to. I watch FOX News and I listen to NPR. (In case you're wondering, I've voted GOP twice, DEM twice, and Independent once in the 5 presidential elections since 1988.)

If you think the whole country is a giant, uniform blob, you're delusional. We here in Massachusetts (one of what I like to call "The Rational States") are very different from the people in places like, say, Texas, where there is a very different culture.

Horse hockey. This Connecticut Yankee totally disagrees with you on that!
Aside from marginal food differences, there is almost no difference between your average Texan, Californian or New Yorker. People *move*. We're all Americans. (Please see example on bottom of page.)

Please define what is SO different? Everyone keeps harping on it, but no one every quantifies!! What is it? That it's hard to get a gun license in Mass? That you can drink in public in Texas?
Oh, big deal... let's talk about something like the difference between Bavarians and Catalans in terms of culture. :D

We're also not exactly represented in the executive branch of the federal government, which would probably ship the lot of us off to Guantanamo Bay as seditionists if it had its way.

Please feel free to name an American that has been sent to GitMo. No? Shaddup already then! You may not like who's in office, but don't make crap up. :rolleyes:
Seriously: that's like me saying "you know, before JFK Jr., the Kennedys used to drown their women one at a time". -- it's silly, it's abrasive, and it's not constructive.

Saying "the culture and government are reflective" of the entire US population would be like saying that all Chinese people people are good at math, or that all French people are obnoxious, or that all British people are lousy cooks, or all Irish people are lushes. Ridiculous stereotypes all.

Exactly... which is what you seem to be promoting between the regions of the US.
The government and culture of the US is MOST definitely reflective of the US: we are the people.
If you took 500 people (any number will do, but let's say 10 per state for easy math), 10 from each state. How twisted would you have to make the questions to not get even 75% of people to agree on something? Really think about that. (Note: questions about politics notwithstanding.)

Bush is just another wanna be Neo Nazi

Hes turning into hitler

He wants POWER POWER POWER skrew everyone else, he goes on about jesus and peace but all he wants is to rule the world

please tell me if you agree


remylebeau6201@Aol.com

I agree you're a looney. :rolleyes:

lmao...so after you yell at me for making a "schoolboy metaphor" you continue to make not one, but three of your own. :rolleyes:

Correct ones, though.

A serbian assassin, the Tsar and the Kaiser are not Europe.

Hitler isn't Europe, if you remember Britain tried to appease him. We're the peaceful ones right? Earlier you were criticising appeasement. Just where do you stand ;)

America is starting bloody wars as we speak.


Nope. America is ending them as you bloviate.

Nope. America is ending them as you bloviate.

No, starting them. America doesn't end a war, it carries on and on and on until the country is a shit hole. Look at Iraq

No, starting them. America doesn't end a war, it carries on and on and on until the country is a shit hole. Look at Iraq

Yep. And Japan, Germany, and South Korea look like the moon, too. :rolleyes:

Yep. And Japan, Germany, and South Korea look like the moon, too. :rolleyes:

Do they? Oh dear...your geography is a little awry ;)

No, starting them. America doesn't end a war, it carries on and on and on until the country is a shit hole. Look at Iraq


Iraq is already better off than the day before we set foot there. Even if the BBC is all you pay attention to you'd know that.

Do they? Oh dear...your geography is a little awry ;)

As is your perspective of America. :headbang:

Iraq is already better off than the day before we set foot there. Even if the BBC is all you pay attention to you'd know that.

BBC is government owned. The government is Blair's government. QED. Iraq is better off? It has had an alien political system thrust upon it. To me, that's no better off.

BBC is government owned. The government is Blair's government. QED. Iraq is better off? It has had an alien political system thrust upon it. To me, that's no better off.


No alien government-though that sounds pretty exotic. A from of government they want to give a chance. Going out and voting despite the threat of violence. It may just work. Or maybe they'll want to go back to the secret police rounding up quotas of people off of the street randomly, for torture and murder to appease a pscyhotic military dictator?

Yep. And Japan, Germany, and South Korea look like the moon, too. :rolleyes:


Isnt it funny how when the United States has military action somewhere, when the dust settles, the country still has the same name it did before the war? And that country is usually helped back up and can be considered as flourishing a short while later? And the country isnt looted and pillaged?

No. The impotent, stupid fat kid is America. I thought it was very well put. Fighting wars under the banner of Christ doesn't make a nation decent.

You thought it was very well put because you have a limitted grasp of english vocabulary. Fighting wars(despite what you think of their necessity) and impotent are contradictions. You do know what impotent means right?

Fighting wars under the banner of Christ?? Where did that come from? Why dont you start using that thing between your ears. Even if America was doing that, it would hardly be impotent.

I just wanted to point out a couple things to Biggleses.

1. There is no such word as religiocracy. The word you were looking for is theocracy.

2. I'm calling BS on the 80% church attendance figure, regardless of whether we're talking about monthly or weekly.

I found a rather interesting report regarding another poll done by using actual head counts at various churches. Gallup uses telephone polls and has people self reporting their church attendance. The article I found discusses people's tendancy to self report with great inaccuracy, especially in regards to what they perceive as positive traits. Here's the study (http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RIN%20Vol.1No.2/Church_lies_polling.htm). It's actually quite interesting, and puts the weekly church attendance numbers closer to 20% for protestants and 28% for catholics. This was in 1998 so if trends of declining attendance have held steady, the figures are probably lower now.

Your basic statement though, that religion is being allowed to have an undue influence on our socio/political policies is right on the mark. Those who follow a christian faith will often deny this as it's the beliefs of their religion being forced on the populace, therefor causes no discomfort to them.

I'm not going to get in on the U.S. bashing however. It is my country and as a person who honors the premises under which this country was founded, I will speak my dissent with letters to my representatives and with my votes.

Those of you who enjoy jumping on this currently very popular bandwagon would do well to remind yourselves what country it is that provides the most financial, humanitarian and medical assistance to the rest of the world. That's right. The self absorbed, self important United States.

We're not perfect. We're just better than you. ;)

Yes, that last statement was a good natured jab.

Their economy is very strong, and they have plenty to offer in the world of trade. There is a reason why the Euro is stronger than the Dollar, you know.

.

The EUs economy as a whole is not very strong. The most developed countries in the EU have anemic growth rates and staggering unemployment rates.

A countries currency relative to others is not indicative of that countries economy. there are many reasons why the dollar is "weak" relative to the Euro, one of the big ones is our trade deficit. Keep in mind that all a trade deficit means is that we are doing well enough to keep buying stuff from other countries.

Isnt it funny how when the United States has military action somewhere, when the dust settles, the country still has the same name it did before the war? And that country is usually helped back up and can be considered as flourishing a short while later? And the country isnt looted and pillaged?
Damn! I knew there was something we were forgetting... :rolleyes:

And to think, we call our Leaders "Great" when they can't even get something that simple done right! :headbang:

:p :rolleyes:

Regards,
Gaar

Isnt it funny how when the United States has military action somewhere, when the dust settles, the country still has the same name it did before the war? And that country is usually helped back up and can be considered as flourishing a short while later? And the country isnt looted and pillaged?

Aw, leave Big alone. Remember, his nation went to war with Argentina over the FALKLANDS. And won't give Gibralter back to Spain...
He's got the moral high ground! ;)

The war in Iraq? Afghanistan? Poorly disguised religious crusades.

You sir, are ignorant.

Aw, leave Big alone. Remember, his nation went to war with Argentina over the FALKLANDS.

The war that proved that Americans aren't the only ones who go to war in places that the people don't know the location of. :p

And won't give Gibralter back to Spain...
He's got the moral high ground! ;)

Why should Gibraltar go back to Spain. There is a huge majority (in fact I think it may be larger then a super majority) in Gibraltar that wants to remain British.

Isnt it funny how when the United States has military action somewhere..... that country is usually helped back up and can be considered as flourishing a short while later?
Yep. Japan, Germany......Haiti, Rep.Dominicana, Honduras, Guatemala, Salvador, Iran, Laos, cambodgia, Vietnam, Philipines, Panama, Somalia, Afghaninstan, etc, etc.

...Haiti, Rep.Dominicana, Honduras, Guatemala, Salvador, Iran, Laos, cambodgia, Vietnam, Philipines, Panama, Somalia, Afghaninstan, etc, etc.

Um... please telll me when the US has never fought Iran, Haiti, Domenican Republic, Guatemala, San Salvador, or El Salvador.

The war that proved that Americans aren't the only ones who go to war in places that the people don't know the location of. :p

Ayep.

Why should Gibraltar go back to Spain. There is a huge majority (in fact I think it may be larger then a super majority) in Gibraltar that wants to remain British.

There's a huge majority in Iraq that hated living under Saddam Hussein, and that hated living under the Taleban in Afghanistan, but that doesn't seem to matter to lots of folks here. :(

Isnt it funny how when the United States has military action somewhere..... that country is usually helped back up and can be considered as flourishing a short while later?

Um... please telll me when the US has never fought Iran, Haiti, Domenican Republic, Guatemala, San Salvador, or El Salvador.

San Salvador is a City, El salvador is a Country.

lets do one at a time.

Haiti: 1891 and 1914

Two hundred years ago, when colonialism and slavery were overthrown and a republic established in Haiti, Thomas Jefferson, in whose name the U.S. calls itself a "Jeffersonian democracy", refused to recognise the Republic - and so it remained, unrecognised, until 1862 - like the Cuba of today. The history of U.S. military interventions in Haiti dates back to mid-19th century, and the U.S. Navy entered Haitian waters 24 times between 1849 and 1913 to save "American lives and property". In 1914, the liberal U.S. President Woodrow Wilson deployed the Marines to Haiti "to maintain order during a period of chronic and threatened insurrection", almost exactly the excuse under which the Bush administration has now sent in the Marines about a century later. Then the U.S. directly occupied Haiti in 1915 and ruled it for 19 years, leaving only when it was able to hand power over to the murderous National Guards which it had created, and only after it had imposed upon it a Constitution that gave the U.S. corporations unrestricted access to its resources, markets and labour force. In 1956, Francois Duvalier (Papa Doc) took over with firm U.S. backing and the dictator, in turn, granted to the U.S. corporations such "incentives" as no customs duties, a minimum wage by far the lowest in the western hemisphere, the suppression of labour unions, and the right to repatriate their profits.

We may declare a war, but it's just because our president tells us its just. It is okay if the goverment strips us of our liberties because it's the right thing to do for our own protection. We may kill citizens, but that's something we had to do; It is war and the safety of our troops is what we need to be concerned about. We don't have to follow U.N. policy because we're the most powerful country in the world. We can do whatever the hell we want. Hey, Free world. We don't have to look for democratic solutions, or try to make peace: We can throw our weight around and keep them in line. All other nations are evil. They're not misguided. They are not wrong. They are not different. They are evil and its our job, as the last super power, the most powerful country in the world to snuff them out (first the ones with that will give us the economic edge over the other ones) because we, not the UN, are the International Peacekeepers. We determine which nations are evil, for we are infallible! :rolleyes: Any War We Declare Is A 'Just War'

The mail?? I read the Telegraph and the Guardian.

That is your biggest problem read something else, You are no better than the useful idiots that get news from one source in America.

Let this thread die. Like Terri Schiavo, it's in a persistent vegetative state.

The same cast of Bush apologists (Markreich, Urantia II, Carnivorous Lickers, Arammnar,etc.) will always denigrate the rest of the world while maintaining an "America Can Do No Wrong Ever" stance.

The inverse can be said of the other side.

Two goats butting heads with no progress. Much like the trench warfare of WW1 now that I think of it.

Just let it die.

Someone said earlier that Russia and Britain could not have won WWII without the US's help is an ignorant and overconfident fool. Many historians, even myself, believe that without the help of Russia, Hitler could have taken all of Europe, and possibly could have attacked the US. The Russians came to find the bane of the Panzer and Tiger tanks, not the US. Russia was on the east with everybody else on the west, if it were not for Russia, Hitler would not have had many of his forces on the east, although it did not have the effect he wanted, because the Russians were pissed at hitlers massacre in their country, so Hitler only lost the war because he had to fight his front and fight behind him. The war was ended by the Red Army who made it to Berlin. The US is just a cockyheaded "superpower"

- I am from America

If it wasn't for America entering when they did and holding the Japanese down in the Pacific. Germany would of been able to bring more of its troops from the West/Africa and Japan would of been able to concentrate from the East. Or maybe you have forgotten Pearl Harbor? Or the fact that France surrendered without much of a fight and England was huddled on their island with the navy on the run in the world.

I think you are a delusioned public educated moron from the liberal biased school system.

'legal' it's twisted and contorted by many a state legislature so it's almost impossible in that region, and you're well aware of that I'm sure. Plus, freedom to do anything you're entitled to? Which is why communists, racists etc. aren't allowed to vocalise their opinions? That's ANARCHY. Anyone might consider different things to be 'entitlements'.

You have freedom of speech in this country and are free to say anything you want. As proven by the morons that get on the news everyday spouting off nonsense on both sides.

I think you are a delusioned public educated moron from the liberal biased school system.
What upsets me with the Right is that they're always whining about the left. Everything is biased liberally. Liberals are pansies. They're unpatriotic because they think war is bad. They're immoral because they have different beliefs. The media and school systems are biased. For the most part, conservative press is just liberal bashing, not really much news. The liberal press, sure it's biased, but at least it has news. Conervative talk radio is a bunch of old republicans patting each other on the back talking about how the liberals screw everything up and how everything is biased in favor of the liberals. Though I'm labelling right now, it always seems Republicans are obsessed with labelling who's liberal and what's liberal.

"Ohhhh, that's liberal..."

"Hmm?"

"Um... liberal means... bad, evil... Dont make me get out the dictionary."

The Education system grows more conservative.

Screw the rest of the world, America is the sole superpower, and we are the worldly superior. I don't care what you guys think of me and my fellow citizens, America is better than the rest. How about the people around the world that LIKE America, never see those polls do you... I would like to know the ratio of American lovers verse haters, every citizen in the Europe, Asia, Australia, and other Non-American countries. Heh Mexico better like us, after all we're soon to be their greatest source of income.

What upsets me with the Right is that they're always whining about the left. Everything is biased liberally. Liberals are pansies. They're unpatriotic because they think war is bad. They're immoral because they have different beliefs. The media and school systems are biased. For the most part, conservative press is just liberal bashing, not really much news. The liberal press, sure it's biased, but at least it has news. Conervative talk radio is a bunch of old republicans patting each other on the back talking about how the liberals screw everything up and how everything is biased in favor of the liberals. Though I'm labelling right now, it always seems Republicans are obsessed with labelling who's liberal and what's liberal.

"Ohhhh, that's liberal..."

"Hmm?"

"Um... liberal means... bad, evil... Dont make me get out the dictionary."

The Education system grows more conservative.



Bullshit!

"Bullshit"

Well I can't fight that argument

-----------

Screw the rest of the world, America is the sole superpower, and we are the worldly superior. I don't care what you guys think of me and my fellow citizens, America is better than the rest. How about the people around the world that LIKE America, never see those polls do you... I would like to know the ratio of American lovers verse haters, every citizen in the Europe, Asia, Australia, and other Non-American countries. Heh Mexico better like us, after all we're soon to be their greatest source of income.

This is supposed to be satirical, right? :rolleyes:

I don't hate the yanks. Their ignorance scares (and sometimes amuses me). Apart from the pollution and the Ghengis Khan attitude, I don't mind them.
I haven't met many of them, and most of the ones I've met were asshole soldiers looking for drugs in the clubs, and I doubt those are a good example of Americans in general. I doubt the americans on NS are either, as all of them seem either to be nationalist gun-strokers or hardcore communists (or maybe that's why they call it "the land of extremes"?) .

I love them for the fact that whenever there is weird news (transexual shoots coworkers then chews off own leg. Claims jesus spoke to him from his freezer), it comes from the USA.

I don't hate the yanks. Their ignorance scares (and sometimes amuses me). Apart from the pollution and the Ghengis Khan attitude, I don't mind them.

Haven't met many of them, and most of the ones I've met were asshole soldiers looking for drugs in the clubs, and I doubt those are a good example of Americans in general. I doubt the americans on NS are either, as all of them seem either to be nationalist gun-strokers or hardcore communists (or maybe that's why they call it "the land of extremes"?) .

I love them for the fact that whenever there is weird news (transexual shoots coworkers then chews off own leg. Claims jesus spoke to him from his freezer), it comes from the USA.

Us hardcore communists come up with those stories to tease the nationalist gun-stokers. Who do you think writes THE WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, and who do you think takes it seriously?

Oddly enough, If you say "Yank" in the US (Or atleast in the South), they'll think your talking about Pennsylvannia and the the states above it. You confused me there for a second.

NS really does represent the extremes because the extremes care most about politics. Basically, the gun-stoking nationalists (or at least they seem) to think the U.S. is infallible and the one beacon of hope and think everyone else is out to get them, whereas the Hardcore communists are all for excessive civil rights and don't like war until the whole nation is in flames. I'm a Hardcore Communist :D

I'm American, from Philadelphia to be exact, and don't hate America. However, I'm staunchly anti-Bush.

But I'm a Socialist, so whatever.

Us hardcore communists come up with those stories to tease the nationalist gun-stokers. Who do you think writes THE WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, and who do you think takes it seriously?

Oddly enough, If you say "Yank" in the US (Or atleast in the South), they'll think your talking about Pennsylvannia and the the states above it. You confused me there for a second.

NS really does represent the extremes because the extremes care most about politics. Basically, the gun-stoking nationalists (or at least they seem) to think the U.S. is infallible and the one beacon of hope and think everyone else is out to get them, whereas the Hardcore communists are all for excessive civil rights and don't like war until the whole nation is in flames. I'm a Hardcore Communist :D

I'm not familiar with the weekly world news, I assume it's like one of those english "bigfoot to wed elvis" type of magazines?"

I don't understand. You can care about politics without being an extremist, no? You have only two political parties, both extreme rightwing parties (I don't think there has ever been any party in my country that is as far right wing as either of them). And the only people further leftwing than the democratic party seem to be extremists that want to change the country into a second USSR. Why is that?

Simple, it is the hegamonic power of our time. People hated the Brits when it was their time too. I want the US to be the Hegamonic power because it is democratic, Western, and best of all, not the runner up to hegamony, a communist, repressive country called China.

There has to be a hegamonic power, I'm just thankful, they they speak my language, and are a Western democracy, who may not be perfect, but is way better than the alternative.

Simple, it is the hegamonic power of our time. People hated the Brits when it was their time too. I want the US to be the Hegamonic power because it is democratic, Western, and best of all, not the runner up to hegamony, a communist, repressive country called China.

There has to be a hegamonic power, I'm just thankful, they they speak my language, and are a Western democracy, who may not be perfect, but is way better than the alternative.

That is a good point. Also, we're the country that comes up with the most "stuff", so next time you want to bitch about something online, just know that we run the internet.

To Christ it does. Sorry, but i'd rather please Christ than you. I'm pretty sure Christ would be on the side of the US in terms of IRaq... i don't imagine he'd feel much empathy for a ruthless dictator who favors only 20% of his population.

And as for impotent... lmao. I know you don't think we're impotent.

Gee, a ruthless dictator who only favours 20% of the population...who does that remind you of? *cough* Bush *cough*.
As for Christ, he was a PASCIFIST!!!!!!!!! He was AGAINST the slaughter of 30000 innocent people, you moron.

Gee, a ruthless dictator who only favours 20% of the population...who does that remind you of? *cough* Bush *cough*.
As for Christ, he was a PASCIFIST!!!!!!!!! He was AGAINST the slaughter of 30000 innocent people, you moron.

He favors 20% of the populations? Too bad 51% of the population favors him.

He favors 20% of the populations?
Probably he means...Bush favors the Rich...

more like 10% of his pop.

BTW Hitler was elected with more than 51%

When I lived in Russia, I hated America because my government told me to.

But when I moved here, I lerned that America is not so diffrent from Russia.

Were both misunderstood.


Europeans say that America fights wars for christ.

Which was practicly invented by the Europeans.



Europeans call Americans arogent and snoby.

And if they just took a good look in the mirror they would be the same.


Europeans say America is polted to the extream.

When Europe is just as bad if not worse, and not getting better.


In truth, its just human nature for people to dislike other people.

We all need a scape goat. And for Europe, its the US. And for the US, its Europe. And it will NEVER end.

Were all arogent, selfish, and alittle poluted at times. Its all just a part of human nature.

And every nation dose it at about the same scale as every other nation.

But what it is right now is this.

Europe dosn't like how we told them to go F themselves. At the begining of the Iraqi war. And they are flat out scared. Because they know that the only Superpower in the world, isn't there puppet anymore.


P.S. Fourm members from other nations. We really dont care weather you like us or not. And what are we going to do about anything you tell us.

Well first we'll give you the finger... :D

Probably he means...Bush favors the Rich...

more like 10% of his pop.

BTW Hitler was elected with more than 51%

If anything Bush favors the good of most people in the world.

Ungrateful or otherwise. :D

BTW Hitler was elected with more than 51%

Ever heard of rigging an election?

This funny watching people debateing why America sucks. Yes we have some problems but when bombs fall on a country, sadly to say they are eaither ours. Or afte they fall, that county want Americas help. Its like Police officers. Usually no one likes them until they help you. Then after that they still hate there ticket giving, party stopping selves. America is the worlds super power and the world police force that no one like until the help them.
The world already has a police force. It's called the UN. It is not America's right to police the world, no matter how much better than everyone else they think they are.

I don't hate the yanks. Their ignorance scares (and sometimes amuses me). Apart from the pollution and the Ghengis Khan attitude, I don't mind them.
I haven't met many of them, and most of the ones I've met were asshole soldiers looking for drugs in the clubs, and I doubt those are a good example of Americans in general. I doubt the americans on NS are either, as all of them seem either to be nationalist gun-strokers or hardcore communists (or maybe that's why they call it "the land of extremes"?).

You haven't met many "Yanks" (by your own admission) and those you have met you don't consider to be the 'average' and yet our "ignorance" scares and amuses you?!?!

Who just showed their own "ignorance" by painting US with such broad strokes after admitting you don't really know any?

Funny how that works, eh?

Regards,
Gaar

Look at Foriegners try to tell us how many U.S. citizens our President favors...

And might I point out...

The minute a U.S. citizen calls themselves an "American" on these Forums, they are immediately jumped for misrepresenting themselves, and yet Europeans call us that all the time here and no one says a word to them, why is that?

Regards,
Gaar

If anything Bush favors the good of most people in the world.care to aleborate?

I hope this is not "the good guys vs the bad guys" childish crap.

Yeah the WWN is the main American supermarket "alian lesbians are forced into a weightloss program by Satan for rescuing bigfoot from Elvis's maniacal clutches" tabloid.

Most Americans don't seem to care about politics, except when Bush talks about chastising "the axis of evil" :rolleyes: . The extremists are the NS players, because they care most about politics here. They care most about politics because they actually listen to president Bush - who either really pisses them off, or convinces them that without a doubt the US is on the right course of action.

One group is obsessed with maintaing Bush's course of war, punishing "enemies", and placing a law against anything you can, and spreading the word of Jesus while the other group is obsessed with avoiding war even when the threat is clear, keeping their freedoms despite the danger to the country, giving the people excessive freedoms, and spreading "political correctness"

I wouldn't say our two political parties are both extreme right-wingers. The Republican party is right wing - some, like Bush and Mike Savage being more extreme then others - but the Democratic party is actually fairly liberal, though there are right-wingers their two. The United States has grown cynical, paranoid, and insecure; that's why both main political parties seem right-wing. Though the next largest parties, the libertarians and greens are very liberal.

I hope this somehow almost answers your question...

I actually don't consider myself an extremist. I consider myself a left-leaning moderate both socially and economically.

Look at Foriegners try to tell us how many U.S. citizens our President favors...

And might I point out...

The minute a U.S. citizen calls themselves an "American" on these Forums, they are immediately jumped for misrepresenting themselves, and yet Europeans call us that all the time here and no one says a word to them, why is that?
He says he is Russian...now a converted US citizenship...

likely he is a Bushite...Like most migrants from commie countries.

You haven't met many "Yanks" (by your own admission) and those you have met you don't consider to be the 'average' and yet our "ignorance" scares and amuses you?!?!

Who just showed their own "ignorance" by painting US with such broad strokes after admitting you don't really know any?

Funny how that works, eh?

Regards,
Gaar

Yes...Ignorance. I haven't met many americans in person. But american culture is everywhere, you are exposed to the views of americans just like everyone elses on the internet, you see americans on television...National Geographic even has hard data on the ignorance of americans.
Sorry that I didn't state it more clearly in my post above: I've met plenty of american soldiers. And those guys are stupid.

Why is is that whenever someone criticizes America, someone says that it's unjustified because they've never been there. And yet people make fun of the English, the French, the Australians and the Germans all the time without actually going to those countries. I think a lot of this problem stems from Americans being oversensitive about their country. And that's probably because they've been pumped full of "patriotic" crap from birth and seriously believe their country to be the best in the world.

Yes...Ignorance. I haven't met many americans in person. But american culture is everywhere, you are exposed to the views of americans just like everyone elses on the internet, you see americans on television...National Geographic even has hard data on the ignorance of americans.
Sorry that I didn't state it more clearly in my post above: I've met plenty of american soldiers. And those guys are stupid.
Just as are Bigot's who judge an entire culture by the "ads" and Articles they have read and Soldiers they have met.

I have met plenty of Europeans myself as well as worked with some from many of the different European Nations (being the Localization Producer for PC Video Game Series, you get to talk to a few of them) and I have met and talked to quite a few "Idiots" from each of the Countries. Does that lead me to conclude that everyone in each of those Countries is an Idiot? No, I tend to give the rest of you the benefit of the doubt and try not to judge you on the small but extensive sample I have happened to come across.

Obviously you believe you can do such a thing, and I won't say you can't, I just wanted to point out you were...

Regards,
Gaar

Just as are Bigot's who judge an entire culture by the "ads" and Articles they have read and Soldiers they have met.

I have met plenty of Europeans myself as well as worked with some from many of the different European Nations (being the Localization Producer for PC Video Game Series, you get to talk to a few of them) and I have met and talked to quite a few "Idiots" from each of the Countries. Does that lead me to conclude that everyone in each of those Countries is an Idiot? No, I tend to give the rest of you the benefit of the doubt and try not to judge you on the small but extensive sample I have happened to come across.

Obviously you believe you can do such a thing, and I won't say you can't, I just wanted to point out you were...

Regards,
Gaar
I agree with you insofar as it is stupid to judge a whole country by a few people you've met and what you see on TV. The president, however is clearly a fascist. He went to war with Iraq without any evidence that they had WMDs and he clearly knew there were none, otherwise he would have let Hans Blix find them. And now, when the war is over and thousands apon thousands of civillians have been slaughtered, he stil hasn't found anything.

Why is is that whenever someone criticizes America, someone says that it's unjustified because they've never been there. And yet people make fun of the English, the French, the Australians and the Germans all the time without actually going to those countries. I think a lot of this problem stems from Americans being oversensitive about their country. And that's probably because they've been pumped full of "patriotic" crap from birth and seriously believe their country to be the best in the world.
It isn't just "Patriotic crap", there is plenty of empirical Data we can go over if you like...

I'm sure I have posted most of it on one Thread or another in the past few weeks, but we can disseminate it again here, or on another Thread, specifically for that, if you like…

Shall we?

Regards,
Gaar

Actually, the US does have the most attractive lesbians. Or so several movies I have watched lead me to believe.

Therefore, we win.

Why is is that whenever someone criticizes America, someone says that it's unjustified because they've never been there. And yet people make fun of the English, the French, the Australians and the Germans all the time without actually going to those countries..I have noticed too.
not so long ago..some Indian Dude claiming that people all over the world (exept western EU) likes Bush...

... that's probably because they've been pumped full of "patriotic" crap from birth ...To be fair... most Govs do that..I ve seen it with my own eyes..

Actually, the US does have the most attractive lesbians. Or so several movies I have watched lead me to believe.

Therefore, we win.LOL

:D :D :eek: :D

It isn't just "Patriotic crap", there is plenty of empirical Data we can go over if you like...

I'm sure I have posted most of it on one Thread or another in the past few weeks, but we can disseminate it again here, or on another Thread, specifically for that, if you like…

Shall we?

Regards,
Gaar
Okay, let's go.

P.S. I enjoy arguing with you, because you're intelligent and, unlike most people who share your viewpoint, you actually have facts to back it up.

America:
The huge fat kid that isnt extraordinarily bright, but is nonetheless quite strong and capable of kicking any two other kids arses.

China:
The other enourmous fat kid who spends all his time on the other side of the playground picking on the Freshmen.

France:
The short, skinny, loudmouth who THINKS he is increadibly intelligent, but relies on the teachers to keep himself from being eaten alive.

Canada:
The nerdy kid who sits all alone and reads books and gets picked on alot. Secretly makes fun of picker-oners.
(BTW, this is also applied to me :P)

Britain:
The kid who was ultra-strong back in the sixth grade, but has apparently lost a bit of muscle in the transition to high school, has yet to realize this.

Japan:
The really smart kid who goes psycho when people pick on him.

Germany:
The really smart, really quiet kid who gives people disturbing looks when they pick on him.

Russia:
The enourmously fat kid who is sick all the time.

The Middle East:
The short Mexican kids who look weak but can lay out just about anybody else if provoked.

SE Asia:
The Freshmen :P (Sorry guys)

Africa:
The REALLY skinny kids (sick joke :P)

Australia:
The new kid on the block.

I agree with you insofar as it is stupid to judge a whole country by a few people you've met and what you see on TV. The president, however is clearly a fascist. He went to war with Iraq without any evidence that they had WMDs and he clearly knew there were none, otherwise he would have let Hans Blix find them. And now, when the war is over and thousands apon thousands of civillians have been slaughtered, he stil hasn't found anything.
Sorry, just because the evidence, that he put before the UN, has yet to be proven true and may not ever be proven true, doesn't make him a "fascist" for wanting to help rid Iraq of a Dictator, does it?

We had seen something happen here in the U.S. that no one had really every thought possible. They had several different Intelligence Sources from several different Country's that were all saying the same thing...

He made a DECISION and he continues to stand by that decision, and so do I!

And that they haven't found anything may be just a bit of a misnomer, no?

I believe they have found the ONE THING they have been searching for in that part of the World for quite some time, it is called...

Freedom and Democracy... And we are watching as the entire Region now reacts to such things and start to call for such changes themselves, in their own Country's. And you are going to try and convince me that is a bad thing, eh?

How about you read what this U.S. citizen feels about this War in Iraq and afterward, if you have any further questions you may feel free to ask...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404171
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404882

Regards,
Gaar

America:
The huge fat kid that isnt extraordinarily bright, but is nonetheless quite strong and capable of kicking any two other kids arses...
Actually he can kick all the other kids collective arses...

exept the 3 kids with nukes.

Yeah the WWN is the main American supermarket "alian lesbians are forced into a weightloss program by Satan for rescuing bigfoot from Elvis's maniacal clutches" tabloid.

Most Americans don't seem to care about politics, except when Bush talks about chastising "the axis of evil" :rolleyes: . The extremists are the NS players, because they care most about politics here. They care most about politics because they actually listen to president Bush - who either really pisses them off, or convinces them that without a doubt the US is on the right course of action.

One group is obsessed with maintaing Bush's course of war, punishing "enemies", and placing a law against anything you can, and spreading the word of Jesus while the other group is obsessed with avoiding war even when the threat is clear, keeping their freedoms despite the danger to the country, giving the people excessive freedoms, and spreading "political correctness"

I wouldn't say our two political parties are both extreme right-wingers. The Republican party is right wing - some, like Bush and Mike Savage being more extreme then others - but the Democratic party is actually fairly liberal, though there are right-wingers their two. The United States has grown cynical, paranoid, and insecure; that's why both main political parties seem right-wing. Though the next largest parties, the libertarians and greens are very liberal.

I hope this somehow almost answers your question...

I actually don't consider myself an extremist. I consider myself a left-leaning moderate both socially and economically.

Thank you.
I guess you're right about the extremists :)
The democrats seem like the better of the two parties to me. The whole Jesus/war thing is scary. In fact, the strong link between religion and politics is really weird, because your system has one ours doesn't: Seperation of church and state (and I envy that).

Actually he can kick all the other kids collective arses...

exept the 3 kids with nukes.
Only 3?
I know GB, France, Russia, India, Pakistan, and North Korea have nukes...theres more though, I think.

Thank you.
I guess you're right about the extremists :)
The democrats seem like the better of the two parties to me. The whole Jesus/war thing is scary. In fact, the strong link between religion and politics is really weird, because your system has one ours doesn't: Seperation of church and state (and I envy that).
That's why we don't worry about them here...

We know they can espouse their beliefs all they want but they will never get them into Legislation.

I am a Religious Conservative and I do not believe in "legislating" (forcing) my Morals on anyone...

Unfortunately, you see all kinds of Liberals who believe they can do JUST THAT, it is not just the Conservatives. Anyone who believes that the State has a Right to make Drugs outright illegal is a Hypocrite to Individual Rights, and nothing else.

Regards,
Gaar

Sorry, just because the evidence, that he put before the UN, has yet to be proven true and may not ever be proven true, doesn't make him a "fascist" for wanting to help rid Iraq of a Dictator, does it?

Oh, COME ON! He threatened the people who did the report on the intelligence behind 9/11 to say that Iraq had something to do with it, which they didn't. Call me crazy, but this doesn't sound like a man whose intentions are as pure as you suggest.

We had seen something happen here in the U.S. that no one had really every thought possible. They had several different Intelligence Sources from several different Country's that were all saying the same thing...

You do know the CIA forged documents about WMDs, right?

He made a DECISION and he continues to stand by that decision, and so do I!

And that they haven't found anything may be just a bit of a misnomer, no?

If he really thought there was anything to find, why didn't he let the weapon inspectors do their jobs?

I believe they have found the ONE THING they have been searching for in that part of the World for quite some time, it is called...

Freedom and Democracy...

Don't those word bring a tear to every American's eye? *sniff*. Too bad all those civllians had to get murdered by American soldiers to achieve it.

And we are watching as the entire Region now reacts to such things and start to call for such changes themselves, in their own Country's. And you are going to try and convince me that is a bad thing, eh?

Again, freedom and democracy are not bad things, but bombing the shit out of a place and rebuilding from scratch in order to get it is very bad.

How about you read what this U.S. citizen feels about this War in Iraq and afterward, if you have any further questions you may feel free to ask...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404171
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=404882

Regards,
Gaar

I'll go read it now.

That the Terrorists made a grave miscalculation about how the U.S. would respond to the attacks of 9/11…
The "response" has played in the hands of A.Q.

so far its best case scenario for them...we are losing the War on terror.

The "response" has played in the hands of A.Q.

so far its best case scenario for them...we are losing the War on terror.
Read the links and then we can talk... Don't and I fear we cannot go further.

Otherwise, you will have me restating my already made case on these Forums, yet again.

Regards,
Gaar

Only 3?
I know GB, France, Russia, India, Pakistan, and North Korea have nukes...theres more though, I think.
there is only 3 that can deliver enough warheads to the US.

Just as are Bigot's who judge an entire culture by the "ads" and Articles they have read and Soldiers they have met.

I have met plenty of Europeans myself as well as worked with some from many of the different European Nations (being the Localization Producer for PC Video Game Series, you get to talk to a few of them) and I have met and talked to quite a few "Idiots" from each of the Countries. Does that lead me to conclude that everyone in each of those Countries is an Idiot? No, I tend to give the rest of you the benefit of the doubt and try not to judge you on the small but extensive sample I have happened to come across.

Obviously you believe you can do such a thing, and I won't say you can't, I just wanted to point out you were...

Regards,
Gaar

So before you have an opinion or something, or say anything about anything, you have to "live" it? Come on now... A nation that chooses Bush as their president can't be all that smart.
My opinion comes from what I have seen, that's how most people form opinions. The soldiers I run into are people you guys send as representives of your country overseas. If I were to base my opinion on americans only on those guys (and some people do), I'd think america was full of people wandering around at night asking where you can find xtc or shrooms.

there is only 3 that can deliver enough warheads to the US.
and there are only 0 that would live to see the next day.

For everyone else, here's a good link that details many of the reasons the rest of the world resents the United States:

USA: Why Do They Hate Us So Much? (http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html)[/QUOTE]

An excellent post, and the link provides a great many reasons why people hate Americans. Its a pity that so few American people know that these things occur in the first place.

and there are only 0 that would live to see the next day.
Absolutly right, as long as the US is included in that 0.

and there are only 0 that would live to see the next day.its a two way street.

its a two way street.
or its an all way street... watch War Games (?) for this way of thought...

Nukes4All :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

I'm sure that if America's history was as long as Europe, we would have at least as much blood on our hands. We came from Europe, you know, and we took part in all the conflicts. Don't for get that Christopher Columbus didn't 'discover' the west. It was already here, we just stole it from the people who had lived here for thousands of years. Didn't we start coming over because 'our church was better than theirs?'

No, people came for land,religious freedom, persecution, economic opprotunity etc

That's why we don't worry about them here...

We know they can espouse their beliefs all they want but they will never get them into Legislation.

I am a Religious Conservative and I do not believe in "legislating" (forcing) my Morals on anyone...

Unfortunately, you see all kinds of Liberals who believe they can do JUST THAT, it is not just the Conservatives. Anyone who believes that the State has a Right to make Drugs outright illegal is a Hypocrite to Individual Rights, and nothing else.

Regards,
Gaar

Uhm...I think you misunderstood. Religion is not forced on anyone nor does it play any role in politics. We pay "religion-tax". You can choose which church the money goes to (a registered one, or none at all, in which case, the money goes to the universities), but most people choose to pay to the national church (protestant). As an atheist, the religion tax money I pay goes to the university.
It's the only tax I don't like paying.

its a two way street.
I don't know...

What has Intelligence suggested recently?

That as many as 80% of the Russian Nuke Arsenal would never have flown, and it could be closer to over 90%+...

I guess they forgot to make most of their silo's be able to empty accumulating water and most were flooded.

Besides, don't believe for one minute that our "Nuclear Shield" doesn't work, that's what we tell everyone so they don't get too excited... :p :D

Regards,
Gaar

Uhm...I think you misunderstood. Religion is not forced on anyone nor does it play any role in politics. We pay "religion-tax". You can choose which church the money goes to (a registered one, or none at all, in which case, the money goes to the universities), but most people choose to pay to the national church (protestant). As an atheist, the religion tax money I pay goes to the university.
It's the only tax I don't like paying.
Do you have Drug Laws that outlaw Drugs entirely?

If so, you are forcing your Morals on the whole of Society.

Regards,
Gaar

We know they can espouse their beliefs all they want but they will never get them into Legislation.

I am a Religious Conservative and I do not believe in "legislating" (forcing) my Morals on anyone...thats what democracy is all about.
if 70% of the US pop is pro-religion and want to bring the prayer back to US schools...I think they should be entitled to do it...
thats what democracy is all about.

.
BUT, Invading another Country...installing a new Gov...thats should not be up to the US population...
that should be Up to the World pop. AKA UN

As an American, here is what I think causes people to dislike America:

I: We are powerful. More powerful than any other one nation, and more powerful than any existing and functional military alliance.
Ia: This makes us unpredictable. Our options, the limitations on which are not highly visible because we are the olny present world superpower, are not easily understandable. This makes them appear to be very many, whether they are or not (and often they are--for instance, the Clinton administration's policy was that America would engage in war if it felt like it, not because American interests were at risk).
Ia1: That which cannot be understood cannot be ruled out as a threat and thus is dangerous. That which is dangerous is distrusted; that which is distrusted is disliked.
Ia2: Our options may include things that are damaging to other nations, particularly European ones. This makes us a threat and therefore disliked.

II: We are more conservative. More conservatism exists in America than in most other Western nations. Take the same dislike between Democrats and Republicans in America and apply it to Europeans and Americans in the world.

III: We are arrogant. We know that we are powerful--too powerful to be controlled.
IIIa: We think that Europe owes us something for saving it in WWII and the Cold War. Europeans both dislike the fact that we think they owe us something, and dislike the possibility that maybe they really do.

thats what democracy is all about.
if 70% of the US pop is pro-religion and want to bring the prayer back to US school...I think they should be entitled to do it...

thats what democracy is all about.

BUT, Invading another Country...installing a new Gov...thats should not be up to the US population...
that should be Up to the World pop. AKA UN
the UN is a failure. its only purpose is to stall further diplomacy between countries/allies/enemies while it asks for more pay from the U.S....
seriously, we give at least half of the funds given to the UN

Do you have Drug Laws that outlaw Drugs entirely?

If so, you are forcing your Morals on the whole of Society.

Regards,
Gaar

Alcohol and tobacco are legal. You really think legalizing drugs would be a good thing? I think Holland and Christiania have proven that it's ineffective.

thats what democracy is all about.
if 70% of the US pop is pro-religion and want to bring the prayer back to US school...I think they should be entitled to do it...

thats what democracy is all about.

BUT, Invading another Country...installing a new Gov...thats should not be up to the US population...
that should be Up to the World pop. AKA UN
That's a Regulation of, not an outlawing of...

Outlawing is saying that they can't pray anywhere in School.

And in order to "take" a Right from the People, at least here in the U.S., you have to specifically enumerate that Right you are taking in the Constitution and say to whom that Authority is being given.

Regards,
Gaar

Alcohol and tobacco are legal. You really think legalizing drugs would be a good thing? I think Holland and Christiania have proven that it's ineffective.
What?

http://www.lovedup.co.uk/artic/14.html

Shall we talk about the facts, or the "Brainwashing" the Government has been doing?

Regards,
Gaar

That's a Regulation of, not an outlawing of...

Outlawing is saying that they can't pray anywhere in School.
regardless...my view is that the majority of the US pop. should be able to decide what is best for the US people.

Like I said that is what democracy is all about.

regadless...my view is that the majority of the US pop. should be able to decide what is best for the US people.

Like I said that is what democracy is all about.
Sorry, but you are wrong...

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/principles/what.htm

-Democracy rests upon the principles of majority rule, coupled with individual and minority rights. All democracies, while respecting the will of the majority, zealously protect the fundamental rights of individuals and minority groups.

-Democracies understand that one of their prime functions is to protect such basic human rights as freedom of speech and religion; the right to equal protection under law; and the opportunity to organize and participate fully in the political, economic, and cultural life of society.

-Democracy subjects governments to the rule of law and ensures that all citizens receive equal protection under the law and that their rights are protected by the legal system.

...minorities...
Govs will protect the minorities for as long as the people think its fair...

IMO...if prayer is out of the Schools it must be because the people thinks its fair...

It should not be because an unelected SC Judge made up his mind.

Erm... I'm not going to read 31 pages of material, so... I'll just answer the first post.

I think America is hated because we're arrogant, and (what really makes them angry) is that we have good reason to be arrogant. They hate us because none of them can, or ever will be able to, control us. No one likes the big, powerful group, even if they ARE mostly benevolent. And frankly, I don't really care if I'm hated for being a citizen of the strongest country to stride the Earth. As it was once put in the Roman(I believe) era: "Let them hate us as long as they fear us." I know Liberals are going to tear me apart for saying that, but it's undeniably true, no matter how blunt I was.

You hate america because your jealous. All you fat little european piggies are rolling around eating frog legs and kicking balls into nets while we americans are hard at work. We have success because we are willing to work for it, and you european folk are jealous because you cant get the same success by eating eel pie and pumping your babies full of wine.

i wouldnt be calling anyone fat if i were american...and i wont coz im australian and oiur obesity levels are through the roof too.

I dont hate america but of course i do disagree with some of the things they're government do but i think even alot of americans would support me there.

oh and Go Aussie Go

Erm... I'm not going to read 31 pages of material, so... I'll just answer the first post.

I think America is hated because we're arrogant, and (what really makes them angry) is that we have good reason to be arrogant. They hate us because none of them can, or ever will be able to, control us. No one likes the big, powerful group, even if they ARE mostly benevolent. And frankly, I don't really care if I'm hated for being a citizen of the strongest country to stride the Earth. As it was once put in the Roman(I believe) era: "Let them hate us as long as they fear us." I know Liberals are going to tear me apart for saying that, but it's undeniably true, no matter how blunt I was.
*shudders in fear at the US displaying it's awesome might in befriending the Iraqi insurgency*

Seriously... you are so off the mark, it's not even funny.

Govs will protect the minorities for as long as the people think its fair...

We used to have a policy like that in Europe. I think it was called "Nazism".

Erm... I'm not going to read 31 pages of material, so... I'll just answer the first post.

I think America is hated because we're arrogant, and (what really makes them angry) is that we have good reason to be arrogant. They hate us because none of them can, or ever will be able to, control us. No one likes the big, powerful group, even if they ARE mostly benevolent. And frankly, I don't really care if I'm hated for being a citizen of the strongest country to stride the Earth. As it was once put in the Roman(I believe) era: "Let them hate us as long as they fear us." I know Liberals are going to tear me apart for saying that, but it's undeniably true, no matter how blunt I was.

There is never a good reason to be arrogant.

And Europe doesn't fear you, we know that you're too hated to make any real threats against any real power.

Govs will protect the minorities for as long as the people think its fair...

IMO...if prayer is out of the Schools it must be because the people thinks its fair...

It should not be because an unelected SC Judge made up his mind.
Again, our Constitution is about "preserving Right's" of the Individual, first and foremost. You want to make something illegal outright, you need to show me where you have a Constitutional Right to do it, that supercedes my Constitutional Rights.

It's not a hard concept, really...

You just need to be open minded.

Regards,
Gaar

San Salvador is a City, El salvador is a Country.

lets do one at a time.

Haiti: 1891 and 1914

Two hundred years ago, when colonialism and slavery were overthrown and a republic established in Haiti, Thomas Jefferson, in whose name the U.S. calls itself a "Jeffersonian democracy", refused to recognise the Republic - and so it remained, unrecognised, until 1862 - like the Cuba of today. The history of U.S. military interventions in Haiti dates back to mid-19th century, and the U.S. Navy entered Haitian waters 24 times between 1849 and 1913 to save "American lives and property". In 1914, the liberal U.S. President Woodrow Wilson deployed the Marines to Haiti "to maintain order during a period of chronic and threatened insurrection", almost exactly the excuse under which the Bush administration has now sent in the Marines about a century later. Then the U.S. directly occupied Haiti in 1915 and ruled it for 19 years, leaving only when it was able to hand power over to the murderous National Guards which it had created, and only after it had imposed upon it a Constitution that gave the U.S. corporations unrestricted access to its resources, markets and labour force. In 1956, Francois Duvalier (Papa Doc) took over with firm U.S. backing and the dictator, in turn, granted to the U.S. corporations such "incentives" as no customs duties, a minimum wage by far the lowest in the western hemisphere, the suppression of labour unions, and the right to repatriate their profits.

(I knew that San was the capital, I edited wrong. Sorry about that)

So: the US has never fought Haiti, but has gone in several times to restore order, as has France. I see.

I fail to see how that makes Haiti worse off than it would have been. I submit that it could have devolved into a Rwanda like situation several times. So this one hardly proves the original point that the US leaves places worse off than when it intervened.

Probably he means...Bush favors the Rich...

more like 10% of his pop.

BTW Hitler was elected with more than 51%

Would somebody PLEASE tell me who "the rich" are?

If you mean someone who gets a tax break under the Bush system, that's the top 50%. They pay 96% of the taxes! So I guess you're rich if you make above $ 28,654?? :rolleyes:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincome.html

Europeans/Whatever
thats why

Would somebody PLEASE tell me who "the rich" are?

If you mean someone who gets a tax break under the Bush system, that's the top 50%. They pay 96% of the taxes! So I guess you're rich if you make above $ 28,654?? :rolleyes:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincome.html
i make $36000 and i had to pay money the last 2 years, so yeah, that was a great tax break for me

i make $36000 and i had to pay money the last 2 years, so yeah, that was a great tax break for me

How the heck did you pay?? Do you have more than one dependent or have less taken out of your paycheck?

I've been trying TO pay: I prefer not to give the feds an interest free loan. I usually end up getting some back tho.

How the heck did you pay?? Do you have more than one dependent or have less taken out of your paycheck?

I've been trying TO pay: I prefer not to give the feds an interest free loan. I usually end up getting some back tho.
i really dont know, i went to H&R block and i was excited thinking id get some money to buy a guitar and they said well you owe the government $3000 and some change.

i really dont know, i went to H&R block and i was excited thinking id get some money to buy a guitar and they said well you owe the government $3000 and some change.

Likely you just didn't have enough withholding. You have to be very careful and not take the withholding calculation on the W-2 at face value. My experience has been that if you take the number of exemptions the government tells you to, you will not have withheld enough and have to pay more when you file.

The IRS does this because they hate to give you money back, even though they've had it interest-free.

The whole income tax system sucks, IMO.

Bring on a progressive flat tax and get rid of all these stupid, confusing rules.

How the heck did you pay?? Do you have more than one dependent or have less taken out of your paycheck?

I've been trying TO pay: I prefer not to give the feds an interest free loan. I usually end up getting some back tho.


I make over $36,000 per year. so does my wife. We have a mortgage and 3 kids. We file electronically and get money back every year-direct deposit, in February. I dont like paying tax, always feel like its too much, but I follow the rules and we are doing fine.

I just dislike Bush. I don't know why. There's something about his face that just makes me want to punch him until he stops breathing. Couldn't give two shits where they're attacking and why. At least some people died.

I also don't hate all of the american people. Just the ones I've had the 'pleasure' of conversing with and even so, there are exceptions.

Just on an innocent, teensy weensy little side note, what did the government tell to the families of the few american soldiers that fell in that "war" of theirs? "Ma'm, I'm afraid to say that your son has fallen in battle. Man, what are the odds?"

I just dislike Bush. I don't know why. There's something about his face that just makes me want to punch him until he stops breathing. Couldn't give two shits where they're attacking and why. At least some people died.

I also don't hate all of the american people. Just the ones I've had the 'pleasure' of conversing with and even so, there are exceptions.

Just on an innocent, teensy weensy little side note, what did the government tell to the families of the few american soldiers that fell in that "war" of theirs? "Ma'm, I'm afraid to say that your son has fallen in battle. Man, what are the odds?"

Who is they (the ones attacking) and who died?

How many Americans have you talked to?

You side note, what are you talking about?

How does that have anything to do with the colonial struggles over the American colonies between France and England and Napoleon's desire to expand upwards from Mexico and into America???

You are correct, U.S. schools are so way out to lunch, they actually teach that the entire Mississippi Valley was purchased from the French. They also teach that Napolean had desires to expand into Russia, the Germanic city states, North Africa. I am confused by those peoples also not speaking French.

Back to the books for me, anyone seen the Revisionist History section?

"The culture and the government, but not the people. "

The culture and the government are reflective OF the people. :rolleyes:
Going to have to agree, if you think you can dislike the government and culture without also disliking the people responsible for both, you haven't really given much thought to things. I may know plenty of exceptions, but in the broad scope of things, America as a whole should be ashamed of itself but is just too proud to care.

Wow there are alot of people who post on this thread... :)


Ok, how about this.

America: The Carthage of the grope, compleatly misunderstood and not really popular. But obviously not a bully.

Russia: Wants more power but cant seem to get anything right. And not loved...

England: Trys to impress the US and keep the baby called Europe happy. A baby sitter.

France: a big baby who when things dont go his way gets really PO'd and blames all the worlds problems on who ever did it.

Germany: The kid who sits there crying about how no one pays attention to him.

Italy: Hey! They have the Pope. And they secretly support the US.

Spain: Also secretly supports the US.

China: The kid who thinks he owns everything.

Japan: Really smart kid who wishes that he could win a war for once.

South America: Likes the US openly, but commonly ignored.

Africa: Still hates Europe for something called Imperalism.

Middle East: ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH!

South Korea: Cant stop complaining about its twin brother N Korea.

North Korea: Cant stop picking on his brother S Korea.

Canada: Englands lap dog. Ohh come on admit it.

Austrailia: Rebelious of the 3 brothers *US, Canada, and them* dosnt like to talk to people.

The UN: The worst mistake EVER.

The EU: heh have fun being ruled by France.

Poland: ANOTHER secret supporter of the US...

Phillipenes: And yet ANOTHER secret supporter.

Cuba: Lets all grow our finger nails REALLY long.



Well that summs it up for me.

I've never heard of the one about Cuba, hm.

Wow there are alot of people who post on this thread... :)
.

bit narrow minded..who would want spain as an allie?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe Muslims and such will like America better if..ummm..America just stops killing them? Mostly by bombing extremely important targets like Mosques, Hospitals and Schools.

Wow there are alot of people who post on this thread... :)


Ok, how about this.

I see this and again it smacks of Bushevik Jingoism.

:rolleyes:

America: The Carthage of the grope, compleatly misunderstood and not really popular. But obviously not a bully.

More like Rome, started out as a Republic, then turned into an Empire that kept on invading and expanding. Lasted a long time but eventually crumbled from within.

Russia: Wants more power but cant seem to get anything right. And not loved...

Putin is making moves to reconsolidate what used to be the old Soviet Union, starting off by absorbing Yukos into the state oil company. And Russia could care less about being loved as long as it has power, fear and respect.

England: Trys to impress the US and keep the baby called Europe happy. A baby sitter.

Yes, and (apologies to Louise Woodward) in kissing up to Bush and his Uncle Jimbo style foreign policy, Tony Blair has ended up another British Nanny who shook quite a few babies and got them killed. And his own constituents are talking as if he'll pay out his ass for that.

France: a big baby who when things dont go his way gets really PO'd and blames all the worlds problems on who ever did it.

Aside from Chirac who's a slimeball on his own to begin with, France has had to endure being the battleground of two World Wars and being dismissed and ridiculed by the United States for not kissing Bush's ass.

Germany: The kid who sits there crying about how no one pays attention to him

The only time anyone payed attention to Germany usually involves the mobilization of military forces, and Germany is trying to get attention without resorting to that. See? I can make assumptions just as easily as you.

Italy: Hey! They have the Pope. And they secretly support the US.

And they got thanked by the US with a cable car full of skiers dropped from high and crushed like grapes not to mention an intelligence agent who died protecting a recently freed journalist from an American checkpoint putting the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine into practice. "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM...

Italy is pulling out of the Coalition.

Spain: Also secretly supports the US.

And they got thanked with the Madrid Train Bombings. After that the voting population pretty much said "Hell No We Won't Go (to Iraq)!!"

China: The kid who thinks he owns everything.

The kid who knows that he owns all the factories that make cheap consumer products for America and has America billions in debt to it.

Japan: Really smart kid who wishes that he could win a war for once.

Japan doesn't care about winning any land wars when it practically owns the American electronics market.

South America: Likes the US openly, but commonly ignored.

The government officials maybe. The common folks know a good deal about getting sodomized by America politically, especially in Brazil, Columbia, Chile, Panama and Nicaragua.

Africa: Still hates Europe for something called Imperalism.

And they're not showing any more love towards apathetic America either.

Middle East: ALLAH ALLAH ALLAH!

And when they look at the United States, they hear "PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! BURN SAND NIGGERS!! BURN SAND NIGGERS!! BURN SAND NIGGERS!!"

South Korea: Cant stop complaining about its twin brother N Korea.

When America has a country ruled by a psychotic nutcase with delusions of grandeur, little regard for human rights and access to nuclear weapons next door... oh wait, it's not next door, it's right here!

:rolleyes:

North Korea: Cant stop picking on his brother S Korea.

Yes, the only part of the Axis of Evil bragging about WMDs and America continues to let it pick on South Korea. Wow.

Canada: Englands lap dog. Ohh come on admit it.

Yes. Lapdogs that had 4 of their troops doing ground exercises in Afghanistan by a fighter pilot who thought he was Tom Cruise playing Afterburner.

:rolleyes:

Austrailia: Rebelious of the 3 brothers *US, Canada, and them* dosnt like to talk to people.

Because like England, they are held captive by a Prime Minister who is kissing Bush's ass.

The UN: The worst mistake EVER.

No. The second proof in history than when it comes between cooperating with the world as a whole and choosing to rule over an Animal Farm style "All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal Than Others" legislature, America will inevitably choose the latter. The first was the League of Nations.

The EU: heh have fun being ruled by France.

France has yet to be bombed the shit out of by Al Qaeda, so they must be doing something right. But it's not the Secularization Policy of their schools that's for sure.

Poland: ANOTHER secret supporter of the US...

Because like a showdog Poland gets fed treats by America whenever it does tricks on command.

Phillipenes: And yet ANOTHER secret supporter.

Since when was Ferdinand Marcos a secret American supporter?

Cuba: Lets all grow our finger nails REALLY long.

More like "We have very long middle fingers and America is still pissed that we never kissed its ass." Three words: Bay of Pigs.

Well that summs it up for me.

As well as the term "Bushevik Apologist."

Yes, but there are an awful lot of Chavs.

At any rate, didn't you watch the channel four special: Chav Culture? With that fat cow from the the soap opera. You know, chav and proud &ct. Chav hating is apparently a snobish, Daily Mail reader pastime.

(Unless you actually are a tory voter, in which case it is natural).

Edit: And you idiots sure do buy a lot of our overpriced third rate "designer" tat.

Chav hating is not snobbish. I utterly despise Chavs and would indeed shoot a lot of them in the head if this were legal. They are a substantial majority, but then so are peasents. And bacteria. And Chavs have the combined intellect of the two.
I and almost all of my friends hold that Chavs are indeed an underclass, and would have the qualms about sending them all to concertration camps. The rest of my companions merely hate chavs. I assure you Chav hating is not snobbish.

Sorry to go off topic by the way. At least I didn't bash America ;)

Oh, I don't know. Maybe Muslims and such will like America better if..ummm..America just stops killing them? Mostly by bombing extremely important targets like Mosques, Hospitals and Schools.

Or if other Muslims stop killing them, exploiting them, using them as human shields, that kind of thing. Did you know that Michael Schumacher donated $10,000,000 to the Asian Tsunami fund? That's the same as Saudi Arabia. Where's this vaunted 'all Muslims are one' stance now, eh?

You have it backwards, the useless fat kid who talks too much is Europe/UN. The kids that actually get hings done are the Us, China and India.

Its the Europeans who claim all sorts of things(culture civilization ect) while not even eing able to clean up the messes in their own back yards(kosovo, serbvia ect).

The impotent fat kid..hell, even a fool will tell you that its france and germany.

Uh, no, it's the US. Europeans are not fat, unhealthy, and stupid...that isn't an opinion thats a proven fact (however, the "stupid" connotation is more vague) its Americans. Either one envies the US or is too ignorant/arrogant when they rant about those who have obviously rose above them.

Uh, no, it's the US. Europeans are not fat, unhealthy, and stupid...that isn't an opinion thats a proven fact (however, the "stupid" connotation is more vague) its Americans. Either one envies the US or is too ignorant/arrogant when they rant about those who have obviously rose above them.

Has anyone noticed the unusually high number of posts by nations with low post counts and Germanic names of late? Hmm. :p

i really dont know, i went to H&R block and i was excited thinking id get some money to buy a guitar and they said well you owe the government $3000 and some change.

That's just plain bizarre. Unless you have some impressive capital gains, I'd say you need to lower the number of dependents on your W2.

I claim one (myself) and I have a few deductions (house, stuff I buy for work, some charity), and I end up with a tax rate that varies, but is around 20-25%...

I see this and again it smacks of Bushevik Jingoism.

:rolleyes:

... Thats a raceist comment...



More like Rome, started out as a Republic, then turned into an Empire that kept on invading and expanding. Lasted a long time but eventually crumbled from within.

No, Carthage. Big, Powerful, misunderstood, not liked. Yep Carthage.



Putin is making moves to reconsolidate what used to be the old Soviet Union, starting off by absorbing Yukos into the state oil company. And Russia could care less about being loved as long as it has power, fear and respect.

You proved my point.



Yes, and (apologies to Louise Woodward) in kissing up to Bush and his Uncle Jimbo style foreign policy, Tony Blair has ended up another British Nanny who shook quite a few babies and got them killed. And his own constituents are talking as if he'll pay out his ass for that.

Yea he is a Bush nanny, for Europe... Some one needs to hold them in line.



Aside from Chirac who's a slimeball on his own to begin with, France has had to endure being the battleground of two World Wars and being dismissed and ridiculed by the United States for not kissing Bush's ass.

I think everyone in France is a slimeball... They really are!



The only time anyone payed attention to Germany usually involves the mobilization of military forces, and Germany is trying to get attention without resorting to that. See? I can make assumptions just as easily as you.

Sounds like a little kid whos parents abuse him. May wanna show Germany some love.



And they got thanked by the US with a cable car full of skiers dropped from high and crushed like grapes not to mention an intelligence agent who died protecting a recently freed journalist from an American checkpoint putting the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine into practice. "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM...

Italy is pulling out of the Coalition.

So? We really dont need there help.



And they got thanked with the Madrid Train Bombings. After that the voting population pretty much said "Hell No We Won't Go (to Iraq)!!"

As if spain has never suffered from terrorist. They are ALWAYS being hurt ny terorist.



The kid who knows that he owns all the factories that make cheap consumer products for America and has America billions in debt to it.

Thats why there our ally.



Japan doesn't care about winning any land wars when it practically owns the American electronics market.

Thats why there our ally.



The government officials maybe. The common folks know a good deal about getting sodomized by America politically, especially in Brazil, Columbia, Chile, Panama and Nicaragua.

They still dont call us sleese balls.



And they're not showing any more love towards apathetic America either.

Heh, they like Europe worse.



And when they look at the United States, they hear "PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! Several raceist terms were used here buy the person quoated. They have been removed because I care and he dosn't.

Allah... I wasnt talking about their God... And we don't do that.



When America has a country ruled by a psychotic nutcase with delusions of grandeur, little regard for human rights and access to nuclear weapons next door... oh wait, it's not next door, it's right here!

:rolleyes:

What did that have to do with South Korea? Ohh I get it, your blowing hot air...



Yes, the only part of the Axis of Evil bragging about WMDs and America continues to let it pick on South Korea. Wow.

Not for long comrade.



Yes. Lapdogs that had 4 of their troops doing ground exercises in Afghanistan by a fighter pilot who thought he was Tom Cruise playing Afterburner.

:rolleyes:

And you think that was on purpose?



Because like England, they are held captive by a Prime Minister who is kissing Bush's ass.

I really takeit you don't like Bush.



No. The second proof in history than when it comes between cooperating with the world as a whole and choosing to rule over an Animal Farm style "All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal Than Others" legislature, America will inevitably choose the latter. The first was the League of Nations.

THIS IS COOPERATION?!?!? This is a Fukin witch hunt! All Europe is doing is useing American and Bush as witches. And your no help eather.



France has yet to be bombed the shit out of by Al Qaeda, so they must be doing something right. But it's not the Secularization Policy of their schools that's for sure.

They have been warned... They also dont seem to like the scarves that the Muslim girls have... Or do you ignore that?



Because like a showdog Poland gets fed treats by America whenever it does tricks on command.

No they don't... They would do that with Russia... Maybe.



Since when was Ferdinand Marcos a secret American supporter?

Sence the start of the Iraqi war.



More like "We have very long middle fingers and America is still pissed that we never kissed its ass." Three words: Bay of Pigs.

I was jokeing about Castro, have you ever seen his nails?



As well as the term "Bushevik Apologist."

So its bad to say "Burn the black guy"... but when "Burn the Rooskii" comes around its ok?

What you said to me was a raceist and slanderic term.

Do you really think your argument has any more leverage? HOW YOU CANT PRATICE WHAT YOU PREACH? "No raceism to the Blacks, Jews, Irish, Mexicans, and about any one ells... Ohh but go ahade and be raceist against Russians... Because I dont like them." Thanksfully I have the good sence not to go stupe to your level.

Back in High School, why did you hate that fat annoying kid who seriously claimed to be good at everything - academics, athletics - when he really was a rather dim candle and had no athletetic ability. He would always act pompous, bragging about his amazing abilities and qualities, which the only thing he had less than abilitiy were friends. He would have an annoying voice, often times high, or he'd lisp, or it would sound very much like his mouth was full of saliva. He would talk fast and incoherently, and no matter how valid his point you still wouldn't want to listen to it and it would still sound stupid, mostly deafened by your own seething hatred. God, I hate people like that... (I'm still in High School) This I hope was an accurate analogy portraying America.

Backed up by evidence? Pssh! That was all the evidence I needed!

(Heh Anal is in Analogy hehehehehehe... yeah I'm American)

wow, i knew someone just like that! exactly like that! i hated them. i was fair at archery, i was best in the class but nothing compared to some of the people at compititions i've been too. and whenever he'd see me he'd talk about how good at archery he was, but he didn't know the difference between a recurve and a compound when i asked him! he was one of those christians that don't even believe in the big bang, evolution, or that humans are animals.

Sorry to quote something from so long ago in the post, but...

Back in High School, why did you hate that fat annoying kid who seriously claimed to be good at everything - academics, athletics - when he really was a rather dim candle and had no athletetic ability. He would always act pompous, bragging about his amazing abilities and qualities, which the only thing he had less than abilitiy were friends. He would have an annoying voice, often times high, or he'd lisp, or it would sound very much like his mouth was full of saliva. He would talk fast and incoherently, and no matter how valid his point you still wouldn't want to listen to it and it would still sound stupid, mostly deafened by your own seething hatred. God, I hate people like that... (I'm still in High School) This I hope was an accurate analogy portraying America.

Backed up by evidence? Pssh! That was all the evidence I needed!

(Heh Anal is in Analogy hehehehehehe... yeah I'm American)


That fat kid isn't America. That fat kid is, pretty much, every country.

I knew a kid like that once... a kid who was really anoying and no one wanted to be around him at all. But this is not a good description of the US. *Maybe France, but not the US*

The US would be the kid who did something REALLY good for you're school, and was really popular for a while... But then when the schoolyard bullies *The Nazis & the CCCP* were gone, no one wanted him anymore. Then he would try to seclude him self from the rest of the kids, only to come out when the school needed money for lunch or for him to beatup some kid for them.

You know, the big strong kid whom you would think be loved by all. Maybe not the sharpest nail in the shed but good kid none the less. The kid who saved every one from the bullies, and became hated by all.

------------------------------------------------

The only crime the US has commited is by being a superpower that is not in Europe. In a world that is slowly being overtaken by Europe.

So let me ask this. What if the US pulled out of Iraq as soon as they had an army. And never went back? What if we just sat in our contry and didn't get involved in the worlds affairs? Would the world truly be a safer place?


Some of you may say no, but most of you would say yes Im willing to bet.

Some of you may celebrate and say how nice the world would be from then on. And things would look good... For a while. But what happins when there is no Superpower looking down the necks of every nation in the world? War. Wars happin because there is a power gap. And with out a superpower, there is a MAJOR power gap.

We would be replaced with an even worse superpower, and if your really unlucky it will be China. And then you wont be able to control them like you try to control the US.

I see this and again it smacks of Bushevik Jingoism.

:rolleyes:

... Thats a raceist comment...

"Bushevik" is a word play combining "Bush" with "Bolshevik." And the Bolsheviks were one of the pre-Soviet Union political parties in Russia struggling for power. Therefore your accusation of racist remarks is way off-mark and disingenuous. If anything "Bushevik" is meant to draw on people's perceptions of the Bolshevik and apply similar behavior to the unquestioning Bush supporters.


No, Carthage. Big, Powerful, misunderstood, not liked. Yep Carthage.

Do you really want to portray America as Carthage? After all Carthage lost the war with Rome and got absorbed.


You proved my point.

Your analogy on Russia paints Russia as trying to be loved. My point was Russia isn't bothering to look for love. But since I apparently prove your point, you prove mine as well.

Yea he is a Bush nanny, for Europe... Some one needs to hold them in line.

In other words, he's a Bush apologist. Not quite a Bushevik, but he's getting there.

I think everyone in France is a slimeball... They really are!

And yet despite this quote, I'm the one making racist statements apparently.

:rolleyes:

Sounds like a little kid whos parents abuse him. May wanna show Germany some love.

And in certain historical context Germany was. Its involvement in WW1 started when it committed to defending its traditional ally Austria-Hungary after Franz Ferdinand was assassinated.

When WW1 ended, the Allies especially France decided to label Germany as solely responsible for starting it. The Armistice and Treaty of Versailles basically lumped enormous financial punishment on Germany in addition to stripping it of its military force... which wrecked Germany's economy and made conditions ripe for the rise of Adolf Hitler.


And they got thanked by the US with a cable car full of skiers dropped from high and crushed like grapes not to mention an intelligence agent who died protecting a recently freed journalist from an American checkpoint putting the Uncle Jimbo Doctrine into practice. "LOOK OUT IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!!" BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM...

Italy is pulling out of the Coalition.

So? We really dont need there help.

If we don't really need Italy's help, why did Bush keep sweet talking to Berlusconi. If we don't really need Italy's help, I guess that means we can close down Aviano Air Base and give all the land back to them.

You're just having sour grapes.

And they got thanked with the Madrid Train Bombings. After that the voting population pretty much said "Hell No We Won't Go (to Iraq)!!"

As if spain has never suffered from terrorist. They are ALWAYS being hurt ny terorist.

The Basque separatists deliberately go out of their way for the most part to avoid civilian casualties. Al Qaeda is not so thoughtful when it comes to achieving their objectives. And Al Qaeda really had no interest in Spain until they got drafted into Bush's Coalition

The kid who knows that he owns all the factories that make cheap consumer products for America and has America billions in debt to it.

Thats why there our ally.

With an ally like China, America doesn't really need enemies. Then again you are either ignorant of this or are a willing collaborator. If China decides to call in those debts, the United States is going to be deep shit.

Japan doesn't care about winning any land wars when it realistically owns the American electronics market.

Thats why there our ally.

If America is too short-sighted and impatient in business to corner a market the Japanese moves in on, they're not complaining. They're only allies as long as it keep America buying those cars and Playstations.

The government officials maybe. The common folks know a good deal about getting sodomized by America politically, especially in Brazil, Columbia, Chile, Panama and Nicaragua.

They still dont call us sleese balls.

Actually they do but America pays the ordinary people no real attention. Hugo Chavez is tending towards socialism however and if he gets real successful, America will step on him quick.

And they're not showing any more love towards apathetic America either.

Heh, they like Europe worse.

America hasn't been involved in Africa in any shape or form since the Slave Trade or Somalia. While you can gloat and dance about Europe messing things up in Africa, America has not done anything significant to fix the mess in Sudan or Zimbabwe either.

And when they look at the United States, they hear "PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! PAHRAISE THA LAWD!! Several raceist terms were used here buy the person quoated. They have been removed because I care and he dosn't.

Allah... I wasnt talking about their God... And we don't do that.

You care about Muslims about as much as Bush cared about Terri Schiavo; convenient until the purpose has been served, then disposed of conveniently. Your stereotyping of the Middle East as fanatical infidel-killing zealots just highlights part of what the rest of the world finds resentful of America.

When America has a country ruled by a psychotic nutcase with delusions of grandeur, little regard for human rights and access to nuclear weapons next door... oh wait, it's not next door, it's right here!

:rolleyes:

What did that have to do with South Korea? Ohh I get it, your blowing hot air...

The Hindenburg had less hot air than your head and it burned down.

That little comment aside from painting similiarities between Kim Jong-Il and George W. Bush was to illustrate the point that you like most Busheviks suffer from the "It's Not Happening To Me Disease." ie. you think any other country's problem is insignificant as long your country is not affected by it.

Yes, the only part of the Axis of Evil bragging about WMDs and America continues to let it pick on South Korea. Wow.

Not for long comrade.

Comrade? Me? Ohhhh I get it. You want to copout from defending your thesis by labelling me a communist. Aaaaaaah ha ha hah hah haaaa...

Not.

And it took less time for Bush to declare Iraq had WMDs then invade it than has passed since North Korea openly declared having nukes.

Bush is doing nothing.


Yes. Lapdogs that had 4 of their troops doing ground exercises in Afghanistan by a fighter pilot who thought he was Tom Cruise playing Afterburner.

:rolleyes:

And you think that was on purpose?

Testimony from the trial of the pilot indicated he was reckless and ignored quite a few important protocols not to mention did not bother to learn about where the troop exercises were being held. So yes, it was on purpose.

Because like England, they are held captive by a Prime Minister who is kissing Bush's ass.

I really takeit you don't like Bush.

I'm not the only one in the world, apart from you obviously.

No. The second proof in history than when it comes between cooperating with the world as a whole and choosing to rule over an Animal Farm style "All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal Than Others" legislature, America will inevitably choose the latter. The first was the League of Nations.

THIS IS COOPERATION?!?!? This is a Fukin witch hunt! All Europe is doing is useing American and Bush as witches. And your no help eather.

No different from America using the United Nations as a rubber stamp (go Rumsfeld!) to invade any country it wishes to, and then underfunds, ignores and obstructs it the rest of the time.

France has yet to be bombed the shit out of by Al Qaeda, so they must be doing something right. But it's not the Secularization Policy of their schools that's for sure.

They have been warned... They also dont seem to like the scarves that the Muslim girls have... Or do you ignore that?

And you do not read properly that statement you quoted. I said the Secularization Policy is the one thing that is NOT working. Try some remedial Reading classes.

Because like a showdog Poland gets fed treats by America whenever it does tricks on command.

No they don't... They would do that with Russia... Maybe.

Yes they do. I believe some of the contracts for oil pipelines in Eastern Europe are being promised to Poland in exchange for fielding troops in Iraq and kowtowing to Bush.

Since when was Ferdinand Marcos a secret American supporter?

Sence the start of the Iraqi war.

Uh... you said secret ally. Marcos was anything but secret about his alliance with America. But then again considering he was yet one more in the series of Pokemon Dictators America kept during the Red Scare, I don't see why he shouldn't.

More like "We have very long middle fingers and America is still pissed that we never kissed its ass." Three words: Bay of Pigs.

I was jokeing about Castro, have you ever seen his nails?

Who should be laughing at who? You at Castro's long fingernails, or Castro for giving America the finger for so long?

As well as the term "Bushevik Apologist."

So its bad to say "Burn the black guy"... but when "Burn the Rooskii" comes around its ok?

What you said to me was a raceist and slanderic term.

Do you really think your argument has any more leverage? HOW YOU CANT PRATICE WHAT YOU PREACH? "No raceism to the Blacks, Jews, Irish, Mexicans, and about any one ells... Ohh but go ahade and be raceist against Russians... Because I dont like them." Thanksfully I have the good sence not to go stupe to your level.

Junior, assuming you skipped the top of this post, "Bolshevik" was a POLITICAL term. Not racial, not ethnic. POLITICAL. If being termed a willing drone of Bush's anti-global policies and rule strikes you as slanderous, then boo fucking hoo.

A bit off topic,

next person to come up with an analogy comparing a country to a schoolboy, child, student, person owes me a quarter. I did it first, and the plaigarism has gotten silly...

I don't hate the US, but I have a strong dislike.

I like North America and North Americans quite a lot (Canada) :fluffle:

On the other hand, I met personally very nice US-Americans outside and inside of the US.

For me it's basically the obsession of the US with violence and their dislike of naked skin (except if they visit the brothels in South-East Asia).

Religious fundamentalism and excessive voyeurism (as in Terry Schiavo's case) are just two more points out of the MINUS box.

The world hates America for many reasons. One, It boasts about being the BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! Two, America has messed with too many countries. We've been to war with too many countries and have lied, and betrayed too many countries. Three, many countries did not like the Vietnam war. What we did was wrong. Too many wars. :mp5: :sniper:

How good of you to exhume this great thread.

[/sarcasm off]

Funny... I just came home from Germany and I happend to see a comedian on TV there going "Thank you Amercia! We Germans have to thank you from the bottom of our hearts!
For years, the world hated Germany, Hitler was regarded as the incarnation of pure evil. And then you elected George W. Bush... Really, we cannot thank you enough! Now the world hates you more than it ever hated us"

This may not the absolute and complete truth, but I think it comes kind of close...

Oh God, not another one of these threads!

Oh God, not another one of these threads!
It's not a new thread, just a resurrected one. I assume this is grave digging.