NationStates Jolt Archive


Pope John Paul II near death [Multi-merged threads]

Pages : [1] 2
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 02:17
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=8054730
Pope John Paul II has a urinary tract infection that induced an extremely high fever. While he is responding to antibiotics, the damage may have been done. The Annointing of the Sick was administered to the Pope, which was the first time he ever recieved it since he was shot in 1981. Any thoughts?

And btw, say what you want about the Pope, but please, keep it from becoming silly. Otherwise, I'll have this thread locked.
Potaria
01-04-2005, 02:18
Well, it was a long time in coming. I thought he was going to die a long time ago.
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 02:20
i am not a Catholic, and i have little respect for some of the actions of the Catholic church under the current Pope.....but the man is a human, and if he is going to die soon, i wish him a quick and painless death....which is what i would wish upon anybody

:(
ElleDiamonique
01-04-2005, 02:22
I am saddened by the news that Pope John Paul II has gotten worse. I just pray that if it is his time to leave this earth - he has a painless and quick death. May GOD Bless him.
Fass
01-04-2005, 02:24
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409131 :rolleyes:

I dislike duplicate threads almost as much as I dislike the pope and I, for one, do not extend my sympathy.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 02:25
i am not a Catholic, and i have little respect for some of the actions of the Catholic church under the current Pope.....but the man is a human, and if he is going to die soon, i wish him a quick and painless death....which is what i would wish upon anybody

:(
Well, I guess that is better than many non-Catholics. Thank you.

Being a Catholic, I like this Pope. He did a lot to help end communism, expanded the church into Africa and Asia, revitalized it elsewhere, and was very generous. He wasn't perfect, but if he wasn't good, why would he be Pope?
Kervoskia
01-04-2005, 02:25
I don't think he'll live another six months.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 02:26
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=409131 :rolleyes:

I dislike duplicate threads almost as much as I dislike the pope and I, for one, do not extend my sympathy.
I know that this is a bit of a duplicate. I think that is a healthy aspect of debate.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 02:27
I don't think he'll live another six months.
Hell, he might not make it through the night.
Sllabecaps
01-04-2005, 02:35
Althoe I disagry with most of what he dose I must admit I respect him, even in his early preasthood he foght ageanst the nazis in his home nation and showed he has carrictor all thrue out his pappusly.


I respect him and hope he passes soon.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 02:40
Althoe I disagry with most of what he dose I must admit I respect him, even in his early preasthood he foght ageanst the nazis in his home nation and showed he has carrictor all thrue out his pappusly.


I respect him and hope he passes soon.
Thank you.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:13
bump
German Kingdoms
01-04-2005, 04:15
May God make his death quick and painless, may God also give him rest in Heaven.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:16
May God make his death quick and painless, may God also give him rest in Heaven.
Thank you.
Sdaeriji
01-04-2005, 04:18
I really wish he would resign and let the Church choose another Pope. No offense to the man, but he's clearly near death and is not able to fulfill his duties any more. For the good of the Church, he should resign and live the rest of his life without the burden on his shoulders of being the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

That being said, I hope he lives the rest of his life painlessly and dies in peace.
The Plutonian Empire
01-04-2005, 04:20
While I have little respect for religious leaders, I sure hope that the next pope will be pro-gay marriage. :)
German Kingdoms
01-04-2005, 04:20
Thank you.

Your welcome, and I am Catholic too, so yea.
Vetalia
01-04-2005, 04:20
Well, all I can say:

He was a brave man who truly sought to do good in the world. He even forgave the man who tried to kill him! He has lived a rewarding life, and although I do not believe as he does, I respect him and wish him only the best.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:21
I really wish he would resign and let the Church choose another Pope. No offense to the man, but he's clearly near death and is not able to fulfill his duties any more. For the good of the Church, he should resign and live the rest of his life without the burden on his shoulders of being the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.
A. He is in good mental health, and as far as most observers can tell, he is clearly at the head of the Catholic Church.
B. The Pope may authorize an interim pope to serve should he be ex communicato for a long time. We don't know if that is the case with this pope, but Pope John XXIV did authorize such a document just in case. However, we did not find out until after his death.
German Kingdoms
01-04-2005, 04:21
While I have little respect for religious leaders, I sure hope that the next pope will be pro-gay marriage. :)

Keep dreaming. :rolleyes:
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:22
Well, all I can say:

He was a brave man who truly sought to do good in the world. He even forgave the man who tried to kill him! He has lived a rewarding life, and although I do not believe as he does, I respect him and wish him only the best.
Again, thank you.
The Plutonian Empire
01-04-2005, 04:22
Keep dreaming. :rolleyes:
You're against it, aren't you? :(
Andaluciae
01-04-2005, 04:22
Poor pope...
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:23
You're against it, aren't you? :(
I'm sorry, but this is turning into a silly degression. Should I have this thread locked?
German Kingdoms
01-04-2005, 04:23
You're against it, aren't you? :(

Personally I don't care, not pro gay marriage, not anti-gay marriage. I just don't really give a damn about the issue. But don't expect the Catholic Church to change its position just because it changed Popes.
The Plutonian Empire
01-04-2005, 04:24
Personally I don't care, not pro gay marriage, not anti-gay marriage. I just don't really give a damn about the issue. But don't expect the Catholic Church to change its position just because it changed Popes.
YOu're right about that... :/

[/thread degeneration]
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:25
YOu're right about that... :/

[/thread degeneration]
Good. I won't request this thread locked, then.
Mt-Tau
01-04-2005, 04:28
I have nil respect for the man. Though for his latest remarks, I think he should be kept alive as long as possible, Robo-Pope anyone?
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:32
Well, none of the American news networks are reporting little about the Pope. It is reported sporadically, but they all seem to be fixated on Terri Schaivo. It is as if Terri Schaivo were the only person that ever existed. But I digress.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:35
While I have little respect for religious leaders, I sure hope that the next pope will be pro-gay marriage. :)
A little voice in the back of my head tells me that you might worry if the Dalai Lama had similar health.
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 04:50
bump
Aeruillin
01-04-2005, 04:56
I really wish he would resign and let the Church choose another Pope. No offense to the man, but he's clearly near death and is not able to fulfill his duties any more. For the good of the Church, he should resign and live the rest of his life without the burden on his shoulders of being the leader of the Roman Catholic Church.

That being said, I hope he lives the rest of his life painlessly and dies in peace.

He can't. As far as I know, the only pope to leave the office alive was some probably truly horribly incompetent pope who was impeached and voted out of office several centuries back. Barring that, you're pope until you're dead. Not a nice prospect.

Well, I'm protestant and agnostic, but I can imagine what the man has to go through, and also what he means to those who believe. I hope that his end is painless and with dignity.
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 05:00
He can't. As far as I know, the only pope to leave the office alive was some probably truly horribly incompetent pope who was impeached and voted out of office several centuries back. Barring that, you're pope until you're dead. Not a nice prospect.

there was the hermit Pope guy back in the 14th century. he quit and went off to live in a cave.

and a Pope can be deposed, its happened before...thats how they solved the Schism
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 05:03
there was the hermit Pope guy back in the 14th century. he quit and went off to live in a cave.

and a Pope can be deposed, its happened before...thats how they solved the Schism
But then, the Papacy was as much of a political post as it was spiritual. He who controlled the Papal Throne controlled large chunks of Italy and influenced the rest of Europe. A few popes can even be said to have been the undisputed leaders of all of Europe.
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 05:07
But then, the Papacy was as much of a political post as it was spiritual. He who controlled the Papal Throne controlled large chunks of Italy and influenced the rest of Europe. A few popes can even be said to have been the undisputed leaders of all of Europe.
its probably still possible to resign as Pope
Mystic Mindinao
01-04-2005, 05:09
its probably still possible to resign as Pope
It is. But it is very rare. The last time it happened was sometime in the 1400s, and that was in shame. No one wants to carry on the legacy. Maybe they should call it retirement instead. Give him another title to mark that he was once a pope.
IronCurtain
01-04-2005, 05:18
Hmm.....A sad day for the catholics, but a victory for the atheists ? , anyway....
Kinda ironic, since he is someone who preaced for God all these years, and now is about to see him, but unfortuantely, no one can substantiate that view...


RIP :)
The Sword and Sheild
01-04-2005, 19:31
According to CNN, reports of the Italian media are true that the Pope has just passed away.
Carnivorous Lickers
01-04-2005, 19:32
I just heard the same.
Pure Metal
01-04-2005, 19:33
:eek:
i'm not religious, but this is big news

and this better not be an april fools (link anyone?)
RX-8
01-04-2005, 19:33
May his soul rest in peace.
[NS]Ein Deutscher
01-04-2005, 19:34
And it teaches us that praying helps exactly Zilch :p
Lacadaemon
01-04-2005, 19:34
Hmm, makes my recent april fools joke seem a little tasteless.

Oh well.
Teh coca cola company
01-04-2005, 19:35
source??
Carnivorous Lickers
01-04-2005, 19:36
No-its not an April Fool's joke. Its being reported by everyone now.
May he rest in peace.
Regulastan
01-04-2005, 19:36
Fox News is also saying it
God Rest Pope John Paul II
The Parthians
01-04-2005, 19:37
Yahoo news is confirming this
Whatia
01-04-2005, 19:37
BREAKING NEWS: POPE NOT DEAD YET

according to the bbc and cnn
Drunk commies reborn
01-04-2005, 19:38
I hope they get a third world pope to take his place. Maybe from sub-saharan Africa.
The Macabees
01-04-2005, 19:38
BREAKING NEWS: POPE NOT DEAD YET

according to the bbc and cnn


They are confirming his death through Vatican sources.. the pope is cofirmed to be unconcious.
The Sword and Sheild
01-04-2005, 19:39
Ok, apparently they have gone back on their earlier reports, it has not been independently confirmed. There are still reports of him shallowly breathing, but it is undoubted he is in his last day.
The Silver Federation
01-04-2005, 19:39
I may not be as religous as others here, but may the Pope John Paul II rest in peace before God, I hope he died peaceful and content.

May our next Pope be just as good,
The Silver Federation
Fass
01-04-2005, 19:39
Meh.
Kroblexskij
01-04-2005, 19:39
unless this is an april fool he hasnt according to the BBC
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 19:39
BBC and Reuters both currently saying hes not dead yet


Pope John Paul II's health has taken a turn for the worse, the Vatican said.

His breathing is shallow, his blood pressure is low and he is having difficulties with both his heart and his kidneys, a spokesman said.

Millions of Catholics around the world have been praying for the Pope, and a special Mass was being held for him as the latest news was announced.

Cardinals - who will elect a new pope - are arriving in Rome from all over the world, the Italian media have reported.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said on Friday evening that the Pope's overall condition had been "notably compromised".

But he added that the Pope was visibly participating in prayers around his sickbed.

The Pope's condition deteriorated on Thursday after he developed a urinary tract infection that later brought on "septic shock and a cardio-circulatory collapse".

He was given the Catholic sacrament for the sick and dying - called the Anointing of the Sick.

But the Pope decided not to return to Rome's Gemelli hospital.

He was being treated in his apartment by a team of four top consultants and his private doctor Renato Buzzonetti.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 19:40
No body here has said hes dead... The opposite actually.
Carnivorous Lickers
01-04-2005, 19:41
I may not be as religous as others here, but may the Pope John Paul II rest in peace before God, I hope he died peaceful and content.

May our next Pope be just as good,
The Silver Federation


I concur-well spoken.
Teithril
01-04-2005, 19:41
Yahoo news has not yet confirmed this...They have an article about his failing health and an article that says that he is ready to die b/c he will not return to the hospital. But as of right now no confirmation.
The Macabees
01-04-2005, 19:42
According to CNN Reuters got their info from the Italians.
Amorado
01-04-2005, 19:42
OMG!!! the pope died????!!! *collapes* my whole life is over!!!! *breaks out in tears and runs away*

oh never mind... cnn says he's clinging to life. Any ideas who the new pope will be?
Greedy Pig
01-04-2005, 19:42
Hope it's not a twisted April Fools joke. And suddenly bounce back full health tomorrow.

Wait a second... Hope it's a April fools Joke. We don't want him dead do we?
Pure Metal
01-04-2005, 19:42
this is not a very nice thread to go trolling in
Gauthier
01-04-2005, 19:43
Hey, this means Robbie Coltrane has a real shot at becoming Pope now!

:D
Teh coca cola company
01-04-2005, 19:43
Damn! :( I was already beginning to feel happy!
It would be the best if we just got rid of all those religious wackos!
Religious people are put in a mental hospital in my country. That should tell something about my perspective to all those religions.
You are the one who sould be sent to a mental hospital! Do you think it's normal to celebrate a man who's done nothing against you's death?
Sumamba Buwhan
01-04-2005, 19:43
April Fools
Lacadaemon
01-04-2005, 19:45
April Fools

I already did this.
Rogue Angelica
01-04-2005, 19:46
TV says he's dead. Turn on Fox, if you don't believe me. :rolleyes:

My thoughts on the dead guy:

Shit. Christian sympathy. We're gonna be faith-based for a bit, here--hold on, everybody.

Oops, guess we're all busted. Trying to help it along--too late. :p
The Parthians
01-04-2005, 19:47
Yahoo news has not yet confirmed this...They have an article about his failing health and an article that says that he is ready to die b/c he will not return to the hospital. But as of right now no confirmation.

Refresh it, the top headline says Pope reportedly Dead.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 19:47
Oh... Fox it must be right... No news channels I've seen say it
Reaganodia
01-04-2005, 19:48
O Father, we now pray for your servant, Pope John Paul II who has faithfully and tirelessly proclaimed in word and deed the Good News of Jesus Christ. As he enters the "autumn" of his wonderful service, Lord, hold Him close to your heart; heal and comfort him, let Him know your deep, intimate presence as He continues to pour himself out for you and, in your Son, for the sake of the world.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 19:49
well I don't see why they wouldn't confirm it right away.
Teithril
01-04-2005, 19:50
Refresh it, the top headline says Pope reportedly Dead.

When I posted it wasn't confirmed...I'll check now.
Quentulus Qazgar
01-04-2005, 19:50
You are the one who sould be sent to a mental hospital! Do you think it's normal to celebrate a man who's done nothing against you's death?
Just think of it. We are nothing but problem waste. The animals in the forest are every way higher beings when compared to us. It's never wrong to celebrate someone's death.
Edenburg
01-04-2005, 19:52
Well According to MSNBC, and CNN. He isn't dead yet. I just checked websites. And I have been watching CBS. I'm sure they would have a special report by now. He is in bad shape, but I haven't heard death.

And if the person who started this thread really did here this from a news source, boy is somebody gonna get suied.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 19:53
Why is Fox saying that he is dead, when he obviousy isn't. Unless the BBC and Yahoo are holding back. The BBC even keeps on watching the Vatican saying that he's still alive
The Mindset
01-04-2005, 19:55
I won't believe it until the BBC reports it.
Teithril
01-04-2005, 19:56
Yahoo still has no confirmation...I'm trying to get onto the actual Vatican site but it's loading really slow and I'm on a T1 line. Alot of people trying to see what the deal is I guess.
Teithril
01-04-2005, 19:57
This is from the Yahoo front page...

Condition worsens; News agency recants on report of Pope's death.
The Alma Mater
01-04-2005, 19:59
CNN says that the vatican denies the passing of the pope.
Edenburg
01-04-2005, 20:00
Went to Reuters website. They say. Italian News People. RAI made a mistake. They contridicted themselves and our now changing their story. The pope is not dead. Sorry for the alarm.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 20:01
Thats probably because he isn't dead. What a horrible thing for Fox to get the news wrong on.
Tuesday Heights
01-04-2005, 20:02
The Vatican just said he's not dead. No hope, but he's not gone, yet.
Nutterstown
01-04-2005, 20:02
He's Not dead..i got links open to CNN,Sky,FOX, and all the BBC news channles..he's critical but he's not dead yet.
Franziskonia
01-04-2005, 20:05
I hope they get a third world pope to take his place. Maybe from sub-saharan Africa.

I don't. The last time I saw a report on the matter, the only "eligible" African Bishop is more hardcore conservative than Ronald Reagan, Jack Chick and Maggie Thatcher combined.

But then again, all his followers are rumoured to be, so who cares. My bet is Kardinal Ratzinger.

Fran
Renshahi
01-04-2005, 20:06
Wow, alot of famous deaths going on right now. Johnnie Cochrain, Terri The Pope and the Iraq WMD intel.
PBEMO
01-04-2005, 20:07
someone must have said he was dead almost an hour ago; yahoo, fox, and nbc all said he was dead, then quickly changed back when they realized they were wrong
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 20:08
Wow, alot of famous deaths going on right now. Johnnie Cochrain, Terri The Pope and the Iraq WMD intel.
and Prince Rainier is going to kick the bucket any time soon
Drunk commies reborn
01-04-2005, 20:09
I don't. The last time I saw a report on the matter, the only "eligible" African Bishop is more hardcore conservative than Ronald Reagan, Jack Chick and Maggie Thatcher combined.

But then again, all his followers are rumoured to be, so who cares. My bet is Kardinal Ratzinger.

Fran
Personally I think that's what the catholic church needs. Sort the wheat from the chaff. Drive the liberal catholics to other religions. Let's face it, there's plenty of catholics who just don't feel the need to actually follow the rules of catholicism. Best to get rid of those.
Nadkor
01-04-2005, 20:10
someone must have said he was dead almost an hour ago; yahoo, fox, and nbc all said he was dead, then quickly changed back when they realized they were wrong
local Italian news was saying a while back that his heart had stopped and that there was no brain activity, but the Vatican denied it
Katganistan
01-04-2005, 20:11
http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=124769

.... though I've no doubt it will be soon.
Fass
01-04-2005, 20:12
Would it be possible to merge all the pope threads?
Snake Eaters
01-04-2005, 20:14
I give him a few weeks at best... but I'm morbid
Oddardynia
01-04-2005, 20:20
I'm not Catholic or even Christian, but I'll pray for him. I hope he dies peacefully, poor guy. I mean; he's... 84, is it? That's a long time to live, and he's been sick for a while now.
Renshahi
01-04-2005, 20:29
Personally I think that's what the catholic church needs. Sort the wheat from the chaff. Drive the liberal catholics to other religions. Let's face it, there's plenty of catholics who just don't feel the need to actually follow the rules of catholicism. Best to get rid of those.
I agree, I know I dont agree with alot of things the pope says, but if you are Catholic, you are commiting yourself to the belief that he speaks for God. If you believe he speaks for God, you gotta do as he asks. There are plenty of other faiths for those who dont want to behave according to the Pope's laws
Crossman
01-04-2005, 20:31
Well, I'm not Catholic, but he was a good man. I mean, Catholicism has its flaws, but John Paul II was a pretty good guy in my book.
Daekerius
01-04-2005, 20:34
Even if many arent Catholic or even Christian, he should be looked at as one who assisted the fall of Communism in Europe, he also even spoke out against the Sudan, and Rwanda Genocides before the US got involved. He is the most traveled Pope in history, and has seen the most of the world out of all the Popes. The Pope was good man in my book. He may not have the same beliefs concerning same-sex marriage, or abortion, but still, the accomplishments he has done in his life surpass the majority of us here. May he Rest in Peace when the time comes
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 20:35
According to CNN, reports of the Italian media are true that the Pope has just passed away.

Wrong!

From the Vatican: Pope Not Dead!

At least, not yet.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 20:40
He won't survive this day in the Eastern US!

May God rest his soul. He was a great man!
Deleuze
01-04-2005, 20:48
Just checked CNN.com...still living.
Stroudiztan
01-04-2005, 20:50
He doesn't want to go on the cart!
The Parthians
01-04-2005, 20:54
This is from the Yahoo front page...

Condition worsens; News agency recants on report of Pope's death.

Looks like the evidence they used was faulty. The poor man has septic shock though, and the likelyhood of him living more than 2 days is 10-20%
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 20:57
Who cares?
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:02
Who cares?

My Grandfather, My aunts and uncles on my dad's side of the family. My ex-gf and her family.

Every catholic basically.
The Alma Mater
01-04-2005, 21:03
Who cares?

Everyone should. The Pope is someone who wields quite a lot of power, so who occupies the position effects a lot of people.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 21:03
Im not even catholic and I care.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:04
Im not even catholic and I care.

I'm not either and I also care.

Oh and I forgot my half-sister and her family in my litany.

May the Lord bless his soul and to comfort the people.
Legless Pirates
01-04-2005, 21:05
In the name of the father, the son, the mother.... oh no.... err.... the..... daughter?..... no?...... OH OH! I know.... The holy spirit

Amen (http://img183.exs.cx/img183/1913/pope7kl.jpg)
PioMagnus
01-04-2005, 21:06
I would ask that all of you, even those of you who do not believe in Christianity, and more specifically Catholicism, to pray for Pope John Paul II. He's in his last hours and he needs our prayers.

Please don't turn this into a flame thread.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 21:06
Looks like the evidence they used was faulty. The poor man has septic shock though, and the likelyhood of him living more than 2 days is 10-20%
I doubt there was evidence.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:07
Legless Pirate, stop with the humor.

Do it in another thread.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:07
I doubt there was evidence.

He means info Seosavists.
Kusarii
01-04-2005, 21:08
I won't pray (I don't pray), but I am thinking about him.

Raised a Catholic, now I don't know what I am.
Legless Pirates
01-04-2005, 21:13
Legless Pirate, stop with the humor.

Do it in another thread.
He's not dead :rolleyes:
The Internet Tough Guy
01-04-2005, 21:13
My prayers wouldn't do much good for you.

But I do hope the Pope passes peacefully.
Triveneto
01-04-2005, 21:16
Raised a Catholic, now I don't know what I am.
Same here.

Must pay an awful lot of respect to John Paul II, though, I believe his mistakes are by far outnumbered by his efforts towards peace between different cultures.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:17
He's not dead :rolleyes:

We know he isn't. It won't be long now however.
Legless Pirates
01-04-2005, 21:20
We know he isn't. It won't be long now however.
As long as he isn't I see no reason not to make a little and harmless joke
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 21:20
He's not dead :rolleyes:
still if you want to joke around don't do it in a serious thread.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:23
The pope is by definition a papist, I'm a protestant and a calvinist, his death is no loss to this world.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:25
The Pope has lost consciousness! :(
Swimmingpool
01-04-2005, 21:25
Meh.
Come on, I know he was a conservative Catholic but he was a great man as well. Even I as a libertarian atheist can appreciate that!
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:26
The pope is by definition a papist, I'm a protestant and a calvinist, his death is no loss to this world.

And I'm methodist whats your point?

This is a time for the Christian Community to come together and mourn the passing of a great man.
Keruvalia
01-04-2005, 21:28
Man ... it's like Arafat ...

I'm not dead!
Here, he says he's not dead.
Well he soon will be.
I can't take him like that.

It ain't over 'till they close the door.
1337onia
01-04-2005, 21:29
I am praying, and have been for many days. I am Catholic, and i also pray that the college of bishops elects a worthy new pope when the time comes, as it soon is coming.
Silver Skies
01-04-2005, 21:31
I've gone to each of the pacific's and the RR, and proposed a a stop to recruiting/spaming until the UN-update, so far people are respecting it.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:33
And I'm methodist whats your point?

This is a time for the Christian Community to come together and mourn the passing of a great man.


You don't know much about calvinism do you? The pope is not a great man, he is a mouthpiece for whoever happens to be telling him what to say today. He is barely able to function, he WAS a great man in his youth, now he is nothing more than a shell.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:33
I've gone to each of the pacific's and the RR, and proposed a a stop to recruiting/spaming until the UN-update, so far people are respecting it.

:confused:

Don't you have the wrong thread?
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:35
You don't know much about calvinism do you? The pope is not a great man, he is a mouthpiece for whoever happens to be telling him what to say today. He is barely able to function, he WAS a great man in his youth, now he is nothing more than a shell.

Its still a time for the Christian Community to come together.

You sir, are acting in a nonchristian manner.

I am not Catholic however, I respect the pope and what he means to those that do believe in Catholicism.

Even when his health was deterioting he was still doing all he can for people of this planet.
Kroblexskij
01-04-2005, 21:38
um he's not dead yet
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 21:39
:confused:

Don't you have the wrong thread?
he mean's in respect for the pope I think.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:39
Its still a time for the Christian Community to come together.

You sir, are acting in a nonchristian manner.

I am not Catholic however, I respect the pope and what he means to those that do believe in Catholicism.

Even when his health was deterioting he was still doing all he can for people of this planet.


I am acting according to my beliefs, my beliefs say the pope is not your friend. When the pope dies that is no skin off my nose. Were he other than he is I would most likely mourn his passing, as it is I find that I cannot.
Harlesburg
01-04-2005, 21:40
The Pope is not dead yet!
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:40
I am acting according to my beliefs, my beliefs say the pope is not your friend. When the pope dies that is no skin off my nose. Were he other than he is I would most likely mourn his passing, as it is I find that I cannot.

Then leave!
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 21:43
The Pope is not dead yet!
We know. Appearantly some of the 24 hour news channels got it wrong.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:44
No. I will speak my mind. The pope is not doing much for the world, other than limiting birth control, making pointless declarations, and serving as a focal point for the center of a near cult. I know I'm gonna get jumped on for this and I can back it up.
Silver Skies
01-04-2005, 21:44
he mean's in respect for the pope I think.

yeah, sorry i was in a hurry.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:47
No. I will speak my mind. The pope is not doing much for the world, other than limiting birth control, making pointless declarations, and serving as a focal point for the center of a near cult. I know I'm gonna get jumped on for this and I can back it up.

Just like I can back it up that he has done good in the world. Facts mean nothing when both sides are armed.

Name one "pointless" declaration.

He is the center of the CATHOLIC RELIGION, which is a CHRISTIAN FAITH!!!! I'm methodist, a Christian Faith as well and its taking all of my energy not to flame.
Keruvalia
01-04-2005, 21:47
No. I will speak my mind. The pope is not doing much for the world, other than limiting birth control, making pointless declarations, and serving as a focal point for the center of a near cult. I know I'm gonna get jumped on for this and I can back it up.

Yeah ... you and Jack Chick.

God I hate Calvinists. Thank Allah for Methodism.

Why are you even in this thread? Why don't you just make a "Bash the Pope" thread instead? Stop being an attention whore and go watch your kiddie porn.
Silver Skies
01-04-2005, 21:48
I would like to remind people that there is a ban on recruiting/spaming until the UN-update, so for the Pope please respect this.

and i don't want everyone thinking i'm an extreme catholic, i haven't gone to chruch in over 4 months (personal problems) and I respect all other religions, also i'm just doing this because the Pope is a great man.
So please just no recruiting/spaming until the UN-update.

This is my message.
Zombie Lagoon
01-04-2005, 21:48
No. I will speak my mind. The pope is not doing much for the world, other than limiting birth control, making pointless declarations, and serving as a focal point for the center of a near cult. I know I'm gonna get jumped on for this and I can back it up.

It's a religion. Take it or leave it.
Homeglan
01-04-2005, 21:49
I am a protestant (CofE) but this is equally sad news to me as it is to any Catholic.
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 21:49
No. I will speak my mind. The pope is not doing much for the world, other than limiting birth control, making pointless declarations, and serving as a focal point for the center of a near cult. I know I'm gonna get jumped on for this and I can back it up.


Darn right you'll be jumped on for this, there is a time and place for everything and I in some ways agree with your point of view but please have at least some respect for a man who honestly believes he is doing what is right and has done many great things for our world. The manis dying thats not the right time to be airing your petty grievences and complaints.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:49
Just like I can back it up that he has done good in the world. Facts mean nothing when both sides are armed.

Name one "pointless" declaration.

He is the center of the CATHOLIC RELIGION, which is a CHRISTIAN FAITH!!!! I'm methodist, a Christian Faith as well and its taking all of my energy not to flame.


The catholics are not truly christian, they place more emphasis on intercession from preists than they do on a personal relationship with God, they're almost as bad as mormons and jehovas witnesses.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:50
Yeah ... you and Jack Chick.

God I hate Calvinists. Thank Allah for Methodism.

Why are you even in this thread? Why don't you just make a "Bash the Pope" thread instead? Stop being an attention whore and go watch your kiddie porn.

Amen.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:50
Darn right you'll be jumped on for this, there is a time and place for everything and I in some ways agree with your point of view but please have at least some respect for a man who honestly believes he is doing what is right and has done many great things for our world. The manis dying thats not the right time to be airing your petty grievences and complaints.


I respect the man not the pope, there is a difference.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:51
The catholics are not truly christian, they place more emphasis on intercession from preists than they do on a personal relationship with God, they're almost as bad as mormons and jehovas witnesses.

Prove that they are not true Christians. Be advised that your about to insult my father (former Catholic), His father and his siblings, my ex-gf and her family, and my half-sister and her family.
Custodes Rana
01-04-2005, 21:52
According to CNN, reports of the Italian media are true that the Pope has just passed away.


May he be with his god.
Kamadhatu
01-04-2005, 21:52
Actually, according to BBC, CBC, and CNN, he's still alive. Barely, but still alive.
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 21:53
I respect the man not the pope, there is a difference.


If you truly respected him then you wouldn't be celebrating his death. Any life lost but specificly the life of a strong religeous leader, should be mourned. Not celebrated.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 21:53
May he be with his god.
he's still alive for now, they where mistaken.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:54
Yeah ... you and Jack Chick.

God I hate Calvinists. Thank Allah for Methodism.

Why are you even in this thread? Why don't you just make a "Bash the Pope" thread instead? Stop being an attention whore and go watch your kiddie porn.


Jack chick is not a calvinist you dumbass he is a fundamentalist, calvinism is not fundamentalism. As for kiddie porn I think I'll just hang you by a razor wire if you even suggest that I have anything to do with pedophelia ever again. :D Clear?
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:54
If you truly respected him then you wouldn't be celebrating his death. Any life lost but specificly the life of a strong religeous leader, should be mourned. Not celebrated.

Amen to that Cognative
Left-crackpie
01-04-2005, 21:55
I hope they get a third world pope to take his place. Maybe from sub-saharan Africa.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
GOD, THATS HILARIOUS! oh, wait...youre serious...
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:56
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
GOD, THATS HILARIOUS! oh, wait...youre serious...

Its a possibility.

Heck, an American could be the next Pope but I don't think that'll happen.
Cape Porpoise2
01-04-2005, 21:56
Actually, according to BBC, CBC, and CNN, he's still alive. Barely, but still alive.
Fox News is saying that too. He'll be dead by tonight though
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 21:57
Fox News is saying that too. He'll be dead by tonight though

3-1 odds the next announcement from them is that he is dead.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 21:59
Prove that they are not true Christians. Be advised that your about to insult my father (former Catholic), His father and his siblings, my ex-gf and her family, and my half-sister and her family.

And my Aunt and Uncle, whats your point? Any way, they are a cult because the do not follow the biblical acceptance of christ as your savior but the ritual of confirmation. They also do not believe in a personal and I mean truly personal relationship with God, all interactions go through the priest. The priest has the ability to absolve sin, but that power lies with God and The Holy Spirit, not a mortal of any denomination.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:00
And my Aunt and Uncle, whats your point? Any way, they are a cult because the do not follow the biblical acceptance of christ as your savior but the ritual of confirmation. They also do not believe in a personal and I mean truly personal relationship with God, all interactions go through the priest. The priest has the ability to absolve sin, but that power lies with God and The Holy Spirit, not a mortal of any denomination.

Prove it!
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:02
This is my message.

This is mine, kiss my ass.
Bottle
01-04-2005, 22:03
given my opinion of the Pope, i think the most appropriate thing i can say is: may he be sent to his God to receive his eternal justice.
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 22:05
This is mine, kiss my ass.


Could you PLEASE drop the stupidity, I'll start a new thread for you if you wnat to argue the Christianity of the Catholic church, but please just keep it out of here, this isn't the place for trolling.
ElleDiamonique
01-04-2005, 22:06
Fox News is saying that too. He'll be dead by tonight though

He could linger, you know. I hope he doesn't - he has suffered enough.
Keruvalia
01-04-2005, 22:07
Jack chick is not a calvinist you dumbass he is a fundamentalist, calvinism is not fundamentalism. As for kiddie porn I think I'll just hang you by a razor wire if you even suggest that I have anything to do with pedophelia ever again. :D Clear?

Don't worry about that ... I'm not one of the Elect. :p
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:09
He could linger, you know. I hope he doesn't - he has suffered enough.

He isn't suffering right now.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:09
Prove it!


1. There is no way to the father but through me, all men fall short of the glory of God.

2. Same as number 1

3. Same as 1 and 2 plus the Priest is not God, the pope is not God, the bishop, cardinal, and various other ranks in the church are not God, God is the only one who can absolve sin, it's part of being God. They may have declared papal infallability but thats obviously wrong, since he is mortal and therefore is born in sin and not perfect, to be infallible would require perfection.
JRV
01-04-2005, 22:10
He's still alive, but apparently 'touching the Lord'. I think he'll go any minute now...
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:12
Could you PLEASE drop the stupidity, I'll start a new thread for you if you wnat to argue the Christianity of the Catholic church, but please just keep it out of here, this isn't the place for trolling.

Sorry about that one, but I will not be dictated to by anyone, and that's what he did, by saying there was to be no spamming, etc. he dictated that I should be quite, that is something that I will not allow.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:12
1. There is no way to the father but through me, all men fall short of the glory of God.

Correct. Even I had to accept Jesus Christ as Savior of man.

2. Same as number 1

Same reply

3. Same as 1 and 2 plus the Priest is not God, the pope is not God, the bishop, cardinal, and various other ranks in the church are not God, God is the only one who can absolve sin, it's part of being God. They may have declared papal infallability but thats obviously wrong, since he is mortal and therefore is born in sin and not perfect, to be infallible would require perfection.

I have not heard one person state that the pope wasn't infallible, not in my family nor in my ex-gf's family. I have grown up around catholicism and I haven't heard anyone state that the Pope wasn't Infallible.
The Cottonmouth
01-04-2005, 22:13
The catholics are not truly christian, they place more emphasis on intercession from preists than they do on a personal relationship with God, they're almost as bad as mormons and jehovas witnesses.

Exactly how are Catholics not truly Christian, Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church you know?
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 22:14
1. There is no way to the father but through me, all men fall short of the glory of God.

2. Same as number 1

3. Same as 1 and 2 plus the Priest is not God, the pope is not God, the bishop, cardinal, and various other ranks in the church are not God, God is the only one who can absolve sin, it's part of being God. They may have declared papal infallability but thats obviously wrong, since he is mortal and therefore is born in sin and not perfect, to be infallible would require perfection.



Hammer, I agree with you on most of these things but who are you to decide who is of His fold? God chooses who he wishes to save and if ou make attempts to try to usserp this authority, you will suffer His concequences.

p.s. 'you' is not refering directly to mr. Hammer, rather it is a basic overview of all who fall under this rule i.e. everyone
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:15
I want to say it was in the latter 17th century the church declared papal infallability, but I'm not positive about the century, it may have been the 16th or 18th.
Sarzonia
01-04-2005, 22:16
According to CNN and MSN, he's still alive but his breathing is shallow.

I can't say I didn't see it coming.
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 22:16
Exactly how are Catholics not truly Christian, Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church you know?


beware of false facts Cottonmouth, the church that was created by christ when he asked peter to tend his flock was the early christian church, Catholicism brewed out of that.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 22:17
1. There is no way to the father but through me, all men fall short of the glory of God.

2. Same as number 1

3. Same as 1 and 2 plus the Priest is not God, the pope is not God, the bishop, cardinal, and various other ranks in the church are not God, God is the only one who can absolve sin, it's part of being God. They may have declared papal infallability but thats obviously wrong, since he is mortal and therefore is born in sin and not perfect, to be infallible would require perfection.
They never claim to be God, they want to deliever Gods message.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:17
Exactly how are Catholics not truly Christian, Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church you know?


No a roman founded catholicism. Christ founded christianity, big, big, big, big, BIG difference.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:18
I want to say it was in the latter 17th century the church declared papal infallability, but I'm not positive about the century, it may have been the 16th or 18th.

Everyone knows the Pope is just as infallible as any human being.
JRV
01-04-2005, 22:18
The Vatican will make an announcement shortly. I suspect he's dead.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:19
The Vatican will make an announcement shortly. I suspect he's dead/

I suspect this as well. :'(
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 22:20
The Vatican will make an announcement shortly. I suspect he's dead.
I heard the opposite, they won't make a statement till tommorrow, but we'll know he's dead if the light goes off in (I forget where).
Brain Death
01-04-2005, 22:20
Yeah ... you and Jack Chick.

God I hate Calvinists. Thank Allah for Methodism.

Why are you even in this thread? Why don't you just make a "Bash the Pope" thread instead? Stop being an attention whore and go watch your kiddie porn.


He gives you a true statement and you accuse him of being a pedophile... That in't very christian of you..
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:22
I heard the opposite, they won't make a statement till tommorrow, but we'll know he's dead if the light goes off in (I forget where).

The Papal Apartment! As well as a ringing of bells.
East Canuck
01-04-2005, 22:22
Sorry about that one, but I will not be dictated to by anyone, and that's what he did, by saying there was to be no spamming, etc. he dictated that I should be quite, that is something that I will not allow.
I strongly suggest you go read the rules of the forums you greed upon by posting here. No flaming, spamming, etc. is allowed. Your right to say anything you want is limited here and you agreed to it by posting.

So, I'd suggest to put your ego in your back pocket, look over your posts to see if his criticism is warranted and act according to the rules and etiquete of the forum. If you find that you did nothing wrong, then kindly ignore criticism and don't let it degenerate in a deletable offense.
JRV
01-04-2005, 22:23
I heard the opposite, they won't make a statement till tommorrow, but we'll know he's dead if the light goes off in (I forget where).

What channel are you watching? I'm watching Television New Zealand News, not sure where they are getting their information...
Cognative Superios
01-04-2005, 22:26
I strongly suggest you go read the rules of the forums you greed upon by posting here. No flaming, spamming, etc. is allowed. Your right to say anything you want is limited here and you agreed to it by posting.

So, I'd suggest to put your ego in your back pocket, look over your posts to see if his criticism is warranted and act according to the rules and etiquete of the forum. If you find that you did nothing wrong, then kindly ignore criticism and don't let it degenerate in a deletable offense.


There is no right for any regular member of this site to be telling other regular members to stop posting. He was not flaming, only missplacing his post. No reason to tell him to go away.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:26
I'm hearing any moment now.

As for tomorrow, is that tomorrow our time or theirs? It is close to 1130 At night at the Vatican!

I bet they are waiting till midnight their time to announce it.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 22:28
What channel are you watching? I'm watching Television New Zealand News, not sure where they are getting their information...
BBC news
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:29
They never claim to be God, they want to deliever Gods message.

But their actions make them de-facto gods, by making others commune with the priest you prevent a truly personal relationship with God. The essence of calvinism is that you and God can have direct interaction without priestly intercession. Also, by removing the public profession of faith and replacing it with the confirmation they remove one of Christs requisites for being saved, paraphrased it goes something like this: you must profess your faith before men or it shall be as though you had not done so.
Bunnyducks
01-04-2005, 22:30
LOL
and you thought the NS april fool's joke was good!

The pope is as fit as in his goal keeping days. He never was ill!
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:30
given my opinion of the Pope, i think the most appropriate thing i can say is: may he be sent to his God to receive his eternal justice.


You are wise.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:30
Even the Muslims are offering up prayers for the ailing Pontiff.

From the Clerics to anti-western Demonstrators.
JRV
01-04-2005, 22:31
BBC news

TVNZ is getting their stuff from BBC also... odd. Do you keep getting shots of the Vatican with annoying and repetitive voiceovers?
East Canuck
01-04-2005, 22:33
There is no right for any regular member of this site to be telling other regular members to stop posting. He was not flaming, only missplacing his post. No reason to tell him to go away.
Begging your forgiveness but I didn't read the original exchange. I just read the comment I quoted and let it be know that the "you can't stop me! I can say anything I bloody well want!" attitude is not true when it comes to forums. I even made it clear to think about it and look at what he posted. I never said he was wrong or anything of the sort.

Also, it has been established that the poster who starts a thread has the right to ask people not to post in his thread. It has been a longstanding tradition. So, regular member have a right to say to others not to post in certain circumstances.

Besides, I strongly believe in moderating ourselves without having to go to the mods for every offense, so if poster tell you "Dude, stop flamming" you might want to consider looking over your previous posts to see if you didn't went too far. It's not a right so much as a suggestion.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:33
I strongly suggest you go read the rules of the forums you greed upon by posting here. No flaming, spamming, etc. is allowed. Your right to say anything you want is limited here and you agreed to it by posting.

So, I'd suggest to put your ego in your back pocket, look over your posts to see if his criticism is warranted and act according to the rules and etiquete of the forum. If you find that you did nothing wrong, then kindly ignore criticism and don't let it degenerate in a deletable offense.


He has no right to tell anyone wether or not they can post, as such he was out of line. My response was also out of line. I am not flaming, I am expressing an opposing viewpoint, if that is flaming then this board serves no purpose.
East Canuck
01-04-2005, 22:36
He has no right to tell anyone wether or not they can post, as such he was out of line. My response was also out of line. I am not flaming, I am expressing an opposing viewpoint, if that is flaming then this board serves no purpose.
Then consider my post to be a statement that disagree with your assertion that nobody can tell you what to post or not. We have mods for that very specific purpose.

Sorry if I seemed harsh.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 22:38
But their actions make them de-facto gods, by making others commune with the priest you prevent a truly personal relationship with God.
I don't agree

The essence of calvinism is that you and God can have direct interaction without priestly intercession. That's fine got nothing wrong with it. I have nothing wrong with you being indifferent, you just don't have to go around announceing it.
Also, by removing the public profession of faith and replacing it with the confirmation they remove one of Christs requisites for being saved, paraphrased it goes something like this: you must profess your faith before men or it shall be as though you had not done so.
It doesn't stop you from professing your faith openly.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:38
Then consider my post to be a statement that disagree with your assertion that nobody can tell you what to post or not. We have mods for that very specific purpose.

Sorry if I seemed harsh.

He was not a mod and lacked authority, that was my only point. It's okay about the harsh thing too, it happens.
Silver Skies
01-04-2005, 22:42
I said that we SHOULD stop spaming/recruiting until the UN update, not that you HAVE to, and yes I can't tell you what to do, but please like another member said, "Put your ego in your pocket", everyone else (barring about 4 people) has agreed to give a day of no spam.

Remember this is for the POPE not the religion.
Spikerfluff
01-04-2005, 22:42
just to let u know that catholocism is NOT the only representation of christianity in FACT god actually warns christians in the bible of seperatism and religion ( sorry folks this is addressed to the guy that said close the catholic church down!!!!!) ( it states that religion is when man takes spirituality and adds his own slant and customs that have nothing to do with pure teachings of Jesus) i know this sounds odd and far fetched but thats cos we are all brainwashed by organised man made religion like the pharisees and sajicess ( is that how u spell it) of the bible were and Jesus told them they were totally wrong...... and no im not a nutter its just that christianity was meant to be one thing and mankind turned it into a farce........

that said i am sorry for the popes passing but no more than i would be of any other man that had tried to live a spiritual life according to his beliefs....

the christian message is NOT being upheld properly, with men and women fighting about what is right and wrong and using the popes death to do it.

anyway just thought i would have a small rant.....


you cant find the truth about christianity unless u read the bible... you wont get it from catholocism, church of scotland or any other denomination that has man made laws and rules.... the only place u will find it is in churches that are truly directed by the bible and THATS IT......


sigh sorry about that folks




so please all stop arguing :(
Holy Sheep
01-04-2005, 22:43
He gives you a true statement and you accuse him of being a pedophile... That in't very christian of you..
Keru is Muslim..
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:43
I don't agree
That's fine got nothing wrong with it. I have nothing wrong with you being indifferent, you just don't have to go around announceing it.

It doesn't stop you from professing your faith openly.


I believe that in the interest of peace we will have to agree that neither will ever convince the other, as such I will no longer attempt to prove my beliefs, if you do not demonize me for them.
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:46
I said that we SHOULD stop spaming/recruiting until the UN update, not that you HAVE to, and yes I can't tell you what to do, but please like another member said, "Put your ego in your pocket", everyone else (barring about 4 people) has agreed to give a day of no spam.

Remember this is for the POPE not the religion.


I have not agreed, your actions do not affect mine, so be quiet and take yourself elsewhere, as I will shortly be doing to prevent further conflict.
Seosavists
01-04-2005, 22:47
<snip>
so please all stop arguing :(
You do know that post is most likely only going to create more arguement.

I believe that in the interest of peace we will have to agree that neither will ever convince the other, as such I will no longer attempt to prove my beliefs, if you do not demonize me for them.
Agreed.
Corneliu
01-04-2005, 22:48
I have not agreed, your actions do not affect mine, so be quiet and take yourself elsewhere, as I will shortly be doing to prevent further conflict.

You can't tell him what to do just like he or I can't tell you what to do.

Now your acting like a hypocrit. You complained when someone told you to be quiet then you turn around and tell him to be quiet.

Practice what you preach.
Cogitation
01-04-2005, 22:50
Damn! :( I was already beginning to feel happy!
It would be the best if we just got rid of all those religious wackos!
Religious people are put in a mental hospital in my country. That should tell something about my perspective to all those religions.
Quentulus Qazgar: Official Warning - Trolling.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NuMetal
01-04-2005, 22:50
Rest In Peace....


And I hope that even those who are not part of the Church and perhaps have negative feelings toward it can remain respectful of the fact that a human is dying...
Hammers Slammers
01-04-2005, 22:50
I am, this is good-bye.
Keruvalia
01-04-2005, 23:04
He gives you a true statement and you accuse him of being a pedophile... That in't very christian of you..

Good thing I'm not Christian, then!
--Kyrie Eleison--
01-04-2005, 23:58
May he go peacefully, despite being a severe extremist as pope.
Sel Appa
02-04-2005, 00:56
His death is projected within the next 24-36 hours...I hope he doesn't die. He's cool, so old and crippled and yet he still can talk and control one-sixth of the world.
Clamparapa
02-04-2005, 01:04
I'm a Catholic Christian. You know, in between a Christian and Catholic. I know that if the Pope dies he will find peace in Heaven.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:11
His Holiness John Paul II

Short Biography

[Updated: 25.02.2005]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Karol J√≥zef Wojtyła , known as John Paul II since his October 1978 election to the papacy, was born in Wadowice, a small city 50 kilometres from Cracow, on May 18, 1920. He was the second of two sons born to Karol Wojtyła and Emilia Kaczorowska. His mother died in 1929. His eldest brother Edmund, a doctor, died in 1932 and his father, a non-commissioned army officer died in 1941.
He made his First Holy Communion at age 9 and was confirmed at 18. Upon graduation from Marcin Wadowita high school in Wadowice, he enrolled in Cracow's Jagiellonian University in 1938 and in a school for drama.

The Nazi occupation forces closed the university in 1939 and young Karol had to work in a quarry (1940-1944) and then in the Solvay chemical factory to earn his living and to avoid being deported to Germany.

In 1942, aware of his call to the priesthood, he began courses in the clandestine seminary of Cracow, run by Cardinal Adam Stefan Sapieha, archbishop of Cracow. At the same time, Karol Wojtyła was one of the pioneers of the "Rhapsodic Theatre," also clandestine.

After the Second World War, he continued his studies in the major seminary of Cracow, once it had re-opened, and in the faculty of theology of the Jagiellonian University, until his priestly ordination in Cracow on November 1, 1946.

Soon after, Cardinal Sapieha sent him to Rome where he worked under the guidance of the French Dominican, Garrigou-Lagrange. He finished his doctorate in theology in 1948 with a thesis on the topic of faith in the works of St. John of the Cross. At that time, during his vacations, he exercised his pastoral ministry among the Polish immigrants of France, Belgium and Holland.

In 1948 he returned to Poland and was vicar of various parishes in Cracow as well as chaplain for the university students until 1951, when he took up again his studies on philosophy and theology. In 1953 he defended a thesis on "evaluation of the possibility of founding a Catholic ethic on the ethical system of Max Scheler" at Lublin Catholic University. Later he became professor of moral theology and social ethics in the major seminary of Cracow and in the Faculty of Theology of Lublin.

On July 4, 1958, he was appointed Auxiliary Bishop of Cracow by Pope Pius XII, and was consecrated September 28, 1958, in Wawel Cathedral, Cracow, by Archbishop Baziak.

On January 13, 1964, he was nominated Archbishop of Cracow by Pope Paul VI, who made him a cardinal June 26, 1967.

Besides taking part in Vatican Council II with an important contribution to the elaboration of the Constitution Gaudium et spes, Cardinal Wojtyła participated in all the assemblies of the Synod of Bishops.

Since the start of his Pontificate on October 16, 1978, Pope John Paul II has completed 104 pastoral visits outside of Italy and 146 within Italy . As Bishop of Rome he has visited 317 of the 333 parishes .

His principal documents include 14 encyclicals , 15 apostolic exhortations , 11 apostolic constitutions and 45 apostolic letters. The Pope has also published five books : "Crossing the Threshold of Hope" (October 1994); "Gift and Mystery: On the 50th Anniversary of My Priestly Ordination" (November 1996); "Roman Triptych - Meditations", a book of poems (March 2003); "Rise, Let Us Be On Our Way" (May 2004) and "Memory and Identity" (pubblication spring 2005).

John Paul II has presided at 147 beatification ceremonies ( 1,338 Blesseds proclaimed ) and 51 canonization ceremonies ( 482 Saints ) during his pontificate. He has held 9 consistories in which he created 231 (+ 1 in pectore) cardinals . He has also convened six plenary meetings of the College of Cardinals .

From 1978 to today the Holy Father has presided at 15 Synods of Bishops : six ordinary (1980, 1983, 1987, 1990, 1994, 2001), one extraordinary (1985) and eight special (1980, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1997, 1998[2] and 1999).

No other Pope has encountered so many individuals like John Paul II: to date, more than 17,600,000 pilgrims have participated in the General Audiences held on Wednesdays (more than 1,160). Such figure is without counting all other special audiences and religious ceremonies held [more than 8 million pilgrims during the Great Jubilee of the Year 2000 alone] and the millions of faithful met during pastoral visits made in Italy and throughout the world. It must also be remembered the numerous government personalities encountered during 38 official visits and in the 738 audiences and meetings held with Heads of State , and even the 246 audiences and meetings with Prime Ministers .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From me-

Pope John Paul II has been one of the greatest Popes of all time and one of the world's greatest figures. He was the force behind the fall of communism, and he demonstrated the loving forgiveness of Christ himself not only when he forgave his would-be assasin, but when he has traveled the world, speaking out against the evils of poverty, war, abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, murder, secularization, perversion, genocide, ect. He has stood firm in his defense of the Catholic Church and her people, yet has also opened arms to Jews (apologizing for past crimes against them), Muslims, and Protestants, in an effort to unite us all under the Lord God. He has protected sacred tradition and scripture from liberalism/secularization, refusing to give in to heretical ideals like tolerating infanticide (abortion), homosexuality, and a new priesthood. He puts his faith in Jesus Christ the Lord, not political correctness. He has made the Catholic Church the biggest donater to charity in the entire world. He helped the Vatican II council and has punished self-proclaimed "traditionalists" who deny the validity of that council. He has made bold and brave statements, standing up for the children when other countries have allowed them to be massacred in the womb. When we lose Pope John Paul II the world will have not only lost the Vicar of Christ, but an exteremely great man who will be remembered as a hero for all of time to come.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:12
PJPII is a hero and the representitive of God on earth. May he continue to spread the word if the Lord!
Via Ferrata
02-04-2005, 01:32
Commando3']PJPII is a hero and the representitive of God on earth. May he continue to spread the word if the Lord!
Hmmm, he is not, he is only a hero for uninformed or really right wing extremists, don't forget all the African aids deads or the centrists that stand against the South American dictatures and were killed by those regimes that this Reaganesque Adolf pope supported. Popie Jopie was no hero, surely not for the poor that only saw and felt a enemy with him, only uninformed people or extreme right subjects see a hero in him.

One of the worst popes ever for the third world and centrist catholics.
One of the best for Pinochet, Reagan, Mobutu, the killers of Romero, and other extremists.

God give us a more humble and a pope of the people now!
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:37
Hmmm, he is not, he is only a hero for uninformed or really right wing extremists, don't forget all the African aids deads or the centrists that stand against the South American dictatures and were killed by those regimes that this Reaganesque Adolf pope supported. Popie Jopie was no hero, surely not for the poor that only saw and felt a enemy with him, only uninformed people or extreme right subjects see a hero in him.

One of the worst popes ever for the third world and centrist catholics.
One of the best for Pinochet, Reagan, Mobutu, the killers of Romero, and other extremists.

God give us a more humble and a pope of the people now!

The pope is a hero you liberal heretic. He stands by the babies, disabled, faithful, and poor while the secular world abandons them and leaves them to the wrath of Satan.
Via Ferrata
02-04-2005, 01:38
May he go peacefully, despite being a severe extremist as pope.
Can't agree more.
Armandian Cheese
02-04-2005, 01:40
How is he now? Anyone know more specifics on his status...? Poor man. He has suffered so much, and done so good. He deserves to rest with the Lord.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:42
Enough with the inflaming.

I don't care if you agreed with him or not. However, show some respect for a dying man for God's sake.

This isn't a time for politics. This is a time to come together to mourn the passing of the Pope.

We as Christians need to put aside our religious backgrounds and come together as one.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims are praying for a peaceful passage of this man.

May he go with God and may he go Peacefully.

In the name of the Lord,

Amen.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:42
How is he now? Anyone know more specifics on his status...? Poor man. He has suffered so much, and done so good. He deserves to rest with the Lord.

Still clinging to life but worsening

Pope Condition Worsens (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152147,00.html)
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:43
But their actions make them de-facto gods, by making others commune with the priest you prevent a truly personal relationship with God. The essence of calvinism is that you and God can have direct interaction without priestly intercession. Also, by removing the public profession of faith and replacing it with the confirmation they remove one of Christs requisites for being saved, paraphrased it goes something like this: you must profess your faith before men or it shall be as though you had not done so.

Calvinism? hahahah the denomination with the heretical, unbiblical belief of predestination.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:44
Commando3']Calvinism? hahahah the denomination with the heretical, unbiblical belief of predestination.

Commando3,

Please try and not bash other religions please. There's been enough of that for one day here.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:48
The catholics are not truly christian, they place more emphasis on intercession from preists than they do on a personal relationship with God, they're almost as bad as mormons and jehovas witnesses.

Calvinists are not truly Christian, as they blatently go against Catholic teaching, and the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ upo St. Peter the Rock. God has given us the 7 sacraments, and there are biblical statements supporting every Catholic practice. Jesus himself established confession, by giving the Pope (Peter) and priests (disciples) to forgive sins. However Calvinism is a bunch of un-biblical heresy made by a fanatic named John Calvin who enjoyed burning people alive and whose religion murdered innocent Catholics all over Europe.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:49
Commando3,

Please try and not bash other religions please. There's been enough of that for one day here.

I'm sick of Calvinists preaching their heresy and hate.
Armandian Cheese
02-04-2005, 01:49
I got really ticked off by that early morning false alarm. The media went crazy screaming "The Pope is dead!", sending me into sorrow, and then they take it all back. It's like some sick april fool's joke.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:50
While I have little respect for religious leaders, I sure hope that the next pope will be pro-gay marriage. :)

The Catholic Church will never pervert and stain the sacrament of marriage for a bunch of perverted sodomites.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:52
Commando3']I'm sick of Calvinists preaching their heresy and hate.

I don't care! It really is inappropriate and he isn't coming back to respond. And it is a good way to start a religious war here on the forums and that we don't need.
Via Ferrata
02-04-2005, 01:53
Commando3']The pope is a hero you liberal heretic. He stands by the babies, disabled, faithful, and poor while the secular world abandons them and leaves them to the wrath of Satan.

Sorry, ego te absolvum, I am in the church, you are not!
So it is my right to say that you are a extremist fascist heretic. Vade retro satanas and go back to your banned friends in hell: Adolf, Pinochet aso..

VADE RETRO SATANAS!
You extremist thug and enemy of the common people!
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:53
I got really ticked off by that early morning false alarm. The media went crazy screaming "The Pope is dead!", sending me into sorrow, and then they take it all back. It's like some sick april fool's joke.

Considering I missed the early reports, I can agree with you.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 01:54
Sorry, ego te absolvum, I am in the church, you are not!
So it is my right to say that you are a extremist fascist heretic. Vade retro satanas and go back to your banned friends in hell: Adolf, Pinochet aso..

VADE RETRO SATANAS!
You extremist thug and enemy of the common people!

Via, please stop flaming.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 01:56
Sorry, ego te absolvum, I am in the church, you are not!
So it is my right to say that you are a extremist fascist heretic. Vade retro satanas and go back to your banned friends in hell: Adolf, Pinochet aso..

VADE RETRO SATANAS!
You extremist thug and enemy of the common people!

coughliberalcough
Via Ferrata
02-04-2005, 02:03
Via, please stop flaming.

Who are you to decide that my response towards that ridiculous joke was flaiming. I could say the same (if I wanted to from your posts). BTW, you like to be a MOD but you aren't one.
Corneliu, that extremist guy is a joke and my post towards that Adolf or freak is appreciated by informed people, (thought you were one.. :) )
Super-power
02-04-2005, 02:03
Via, please stop flaming.
Yeah Via, knock it off!
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 02:06
Who are you to decide that my response towards that ridiculous joke was flaiming. I could say the same (if I wanted to from your posts). BTW, you like to be a MOD but you aren't one.
Corneliu, that extremist guy is a joke and my post towards that Adolf or freak is appreciated by informed people, (thought you were one.. :) )

I'm not an extremist, I have morals unlike you lust-driven secular liberal scum.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 02:09
Who are you to decide that my response towards that ridiculous joke was flaiming. I could say the same (if I wanted to from your posts). BTW, you like to be a MOD but you aren't one.
Corneliu, that extremist guy is a joke and my post towards that Adolf or freak is appreciated by informed people, (thought you were one.. :) )

I may not be a mod but I do know the rules regarding flaming and that was flaming.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 02:09
I may not be a mod but I do know the rules regarding flaming and that was flaming.

Tell me about it.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 02:10
Commando3']I'm not an extremist, I have morals unlike you lust-driven secular liberal scum.

Commando, knock off the flaming as well.

Its people like you that give us conservatives a bad name.
Via Ferrata
02-04-2005, 02:10
Yeah Via, knock it off!
Please Commando3 and Super-power, stop flaiming and spamming the thread. You guys are really hijacking the thread with extremisme. Let the people have their say without your flaiming please. If not this will have to go to the moderation forum.

Cheers.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 02:11
Please Commando3 and Super-power, stop flaiming and spamming the thread. You guys are really hijacking the thread with extremisme. Let the people have their say without your flaiming please. If not this will have to go to the moderation forum.

Cheers.

We are here to honor the Vicar of Christ not bash him heretic.
[NS]Commando3
02-04-2005, 02:12
Commando, knock off the flaming as well.

Its people like you that give us conservatives a bad name.

Sorry if you feel that way, however you have to fight fire with fire.
Neo Drexus
02-04-2005, 02:12
First of all, the liberal cracks are offensive..you CAN be a liberal (or democrat..I prefer that title) and be in the christian church so thats very inappropriate. Second, let's not turn the topic into a flame war..third, lets stay on topic and keep your comments to yourself...if you dont like the Pope, fine. But keep it to yourself..go start another topic about it if you want to rant about him.. Im not a huge fan of him either but I respect the guy and I respect his life and work so it is a rather sad thing to see him die. Im Protestant but I still feel sad for other christians in the Catholic belief.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 02:13
Commando3']Sorry if you feel that way, however you have to fight fire with fire.

No you don't.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 02:14
Please Commando3 and Super-power, stop flaiming and spamming the thread. You guys are really hijacking the thread with extremisme. Let the people have their say without your flaiming please. If not this will have to go to the moderation forum.

Cheers.

Commando3 was flaming but Super-Power was not.
Sloshnia
02-04-2005, 02:16
First of all, the liberal cracks are offensive..you CAN be a liberal (or democrat..I prefer that title) and be in the christian church so thats very inappropriate.

Well, its not that simple anymore. You can certainly be a democrat and be a part of the Christian church, although you will be a minority by far thanks to the hijacking of the democratic party by liberal and leftist idealology.

To be a proud member of the liberal movement, it is bad form to proclaim yourself as a Christian since there is a core conflict of interest with sensitive issues such as abortion, gay marriage, creationism vs. evolution, etc.
Neo Drexus
02-04-2005, 02:19
ok Im anti-gay marriage..and pro-life..people give democrats the liberal title..However, I am a christian democrat and not because of those issues am I a democrat. I agree with their economic and political ideals for the most part. And creationism and evolution really isnt a political battle except for the whole courthouse thing..I agree with seperation of church and state but no one's arguing between creationism and evolution trying to figure out which is true..
Neo Drexus
02-04-2005, 02:20
in the government I mean..
Silent Truth
02-04-2005, 02:29
When I read the title of this thread it wasn't "Come Praise The All Mighty Pope!" so as far as I can tell people can say whatever they want.

Personally, I have enough respect for a dieing man not to kick him while he's down, but just because you're offended by what these people are saying doesn't mean they can't say it. This is a public forum.

On a final note, just because someone is a liberal, democrat, etc. doesn't mean they have no morals, a point that's lost on most conservatives. Key word there is most, not all, most, I have met some very well educated conservatives.
Neo Drexus
02-04-2005, 02:36
Thank you very much Silent Truth for the ending of your post there. It is true it is a public forum and you can say whatever you want but people should have the decency to not bash someone who seems to mean a lot to people on the board. They can say it..Im just saying its kind of poor taste.
Frisbeeteria
02-04-2005, 02:41
Commando3']The Catholic Church will never pervert and stain the sacrament of marriage for a bunch of perverted sodomites.

We are here to honor the Vicar of Christ not bash him heretic.
[NS]Commando3, you've lost at least two nations for flaming and trolling. You're about to lose another one.

If you had stopped writing before the portions I bolded, this conversation would be fine. By adding personal insults and flamebait to the mix, you stepped over the line of acceptable behavior. You've had multiple threads locked for this, and I tire of having to be the policeman here.

Sorry if you feel that way, however you have to fight fire with fire.
Not here you don't. Around here we fight fire with water. Go cool off for a week. You're forumbanned.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator


Next time somebody wants to start a flamefest here, just report them to moderation and let us deal with it, please. We don't want to see remembrance threads trashed any more than the rest of you.
Xanaz
02-04-2005, 02:45
Who cares? He is JUST a man, right? I don't recall the bible ever mentioning a "Pope" , in fact if there is a god, you can almost bet that the Catholics have it wrong, because the pope to me falls under "worshiping false idols" Whoever said the Pope was gods rep on earth? Other men? That don't cut the mustard by any means. I do think the man, was a good man and I hope he doesn't suffer and dies soon, so that he doesn't suffer. But lets face it, if there is a god, the Catholics are wrong.
Bushrepublican liars
02-04-2005, 03:05
Verry strange, in post 230, Via Ferrata talks to Corneliu and in post 232, N ational S ocialist (if that is not fascist) Commando3 talks back :eek: . Busted? Same person, puppet :confused: .

My opinion as a protestant, get a Cardinal Daneels and forget the "Panzerkardinal" Ratzinger. A decent figure between the extreme right and center conservatisme can bring the Catholic churc somewhat back to their faithfull and the poor. Persons like him or others can help the world to forget what was done in South America and other regions, remember Romereo aso.and other deep links between extreme right goverments and the Vatican.


BTW, for Corneliu, I allways find it strange when you say that people flame when they use the terms: "fascist" (Franco, Mussolini adn the Allianza Nationale wich is part of the government in Italy and has as frontwomen Alessandra Mussolini, a die hard fan of GW. Bush) or use the term Nazi (a regime, awfull and bad but linked to your own presidents family and a lot of South American dictators sponsored by the US in the 70ies till early 90ies). I never saw you acting the same when a extremist accuses other people for beiing a communist or "liberal".

You have a double standard, if people like Via and many others here are accused by you and other rightwingers for flaiming because they use the terms "fascist" .A movement wich is still a very friendly and powerfull, now pro Israel, pro US republican and anti Arab- party in Eastern and Western EU towards the US and also in the US itself by local extremist republicans. Same goes when those guys use the term "Nazi", I never see you or other right wing extremists condemning the opposite of spectre: communists. When people call one a fascist or nazi, the rightwingers that have a lot in common with those species (the "extremist" I mean) never point out other rightwing extremist like superpower or NS Commando and many others when they accuse centrists people or centre left people for being "communist", for me a regime that is as bad as Nazisme.

A double standard, when you say that a person is flaiming when he points out the fascist intentions or worse, nazi intentions, you have to do so when extremist point people by "communist".

Never saw you doing that.
Well, I am not often on NS but my eye fell on that before. I wish you all a good debate. :) and I really hope that NS becomes somewhat more centre, even late PINOCHETwould feel at home here now, a counterballance and debate is needed more then ever.
Corneliu
02-04-2005, 03:44
Verry strange, in post 230, Via Ferrata talks to Corneliu and in post 232, N ational S ocialist (if that is not fascist) Commando3 talks back :eek: . Busted? Same person, puppet :confused: .

Don't know! I doubt it.

My opinion as a protestant, get a Cardinal Daneels and forget the "Panzerkardinal" Ratzinger. A decent figure between the extreme right and center conservatisme can bring the Catholic churc somewhat back to their faithfull and the poor. Persons like him or others can help the world to forget what was done in South America and other regions, remember Romereo aso.and other deep links between extreme right goverments and the Vatican.

We'll see who the Conclave elect as the new Pope.

BTW, for Corneliu, I allways find it strange when you say that people flame when they use the terms: "fascist" or use the term Nazi.I never saw you acting the same when a extremist accuses other people for beiing a communist or "liberal".

Maybe I've gotten wiser as to the flames that have been spouting. Passions are running high and I don't want things to spiral out of control. Alot of times the throwing of commi or liberal that occur is in friendly jousting. I've seen it used in friendly context. However in this case, it wasn't and it really was flaming. That is why I said something. Normally I let it go when I know an arguement isn't going to spiral out of control but here it would have because of the religious aspect of this.

You have a double standard, if people like Via and many others here are accused by you and other rightwingers for flaiming because they use the terms "fascist" .A movement wich is still a very friendly and powerfull, now pro Israel, pro US republican and anti Arab- party in Eastern and Western EU towards the US and also in the US itself by local extremist republicans. Same goes when those guys use the term "Nazi", I never see you or other right wing extremists condemning the opposite of spectre: communists. When people call one a fascist or nazi, the rightwingers that have a lot in common with those species (the "extremist" I mean) never point out other rightwing extremist like superpower or NS Commando and many others when they accuse centrists people or centre left people for being "communist", for me a regime that is as bad as Nazisme.

It was more than the word Fascist actually. I advise you to read all posts before making an assumption such as that. Also, I am not a right wing extremist. I like to know where you pulled that one from :confused: I have never been a right wing extremist nor will I ever be. I have condemned Communism. I've stated it on these boards when it was appropriate to do so. When NS Commando3 flamed, I called him on it as well. I guess you missed my that goes for you too Commando3 post. Don't make assumptions about me.

A double standard, when you say that a person is flaiming when he points out the fascist intentions or worse, nazi intentions, you have to do so when extremist point people by "communist".

Never saw you doing that.

:confused:

Well, I am not often on NS but my eye fell on that before. I wish you all a good debate. :) and I really hope that NS becomes somewhat more centre, even late PINOCHETwould feel at home here now, a counterballance and debate is needed more then ever.

Counterbalance is always needed in debate. However, trashing someone for a different viewpoint isn't counterbalance. That happens alot on these forums.