NationStates Jolt Archive

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe there are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Pearl Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

Another poster ( The Alma Mater ) referred me to an article about the current differences between how Americans view the world and how Europeans view the world. I highly recommend it, since it goes a long way toward explaining these differing world views: http://www.policyreview.org/JUN02/kagan.html

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

*applauds*

I hate the "America Sucks" crowd.

I especially agree with point number three. "Forget it and move on" is not, never has been, and will never be option for September 11th. It was a big deal, and those who lost their lives would never want it to be forgotten.

However, I don't mind honest American criticism when its well supported and founded. I am by no means a supporter of the current administration, but I still don't want to hear "Bush is an idiot and Americans are idots and you guys need to mind your own business." Give me some rational, well thought out reasons why you dislike America/Americans.

Give me some rational, well thought out reasons why you dislike America/Americans.

America stole my cat.

1.We make a good target
2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America.
3. Envy.
4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world.
you see, thats something

some people dislike the american attitude that anyone who dislikes them must just be jealous

which completely misses the point

This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated.
Now, what was it that one american sergeant said after they had taken over an airfield in northern Afghanistan...
Oh yeah, something like this: "Now we've landed and taken over a piece of Afghanistan."...
And don't start telling me he's the only officer acting like that.
And no, I'm no from any of those countries you mentioned. I'm finnish and our country's always been too small to become a superpower (not becouse of the lack of trying...)

People attack America because their current foreign policies suck. People attack Americans because they're ignorant.

EDIT: I mean the people who attack Americans and ignorant, not the other way around.

America stole my cat.


Well there you go. I'd hate America too.


If I didn't hate cats. ;)

Give me some rational, well thought out reasons why you dislike America/Americans.
i dont dislike all Americans, but heres a few reasons

you spent 40 years propping up dictatorships and helping terrorists.

the vast majority of the IRAs funding comes from the US, and the IRA has done its best to destroy the place where i live

America prances round the world like it knows best, like someone has given them the position of the world police, being entirely hypocritical in its foreign affairs, and telling other countries what to do

that enough?

I think 1 & 4 certainly are good points. But they only contribute to a greater tributary as it flows into the river of Hate.

But I know I personally dislike 'America' because of it's undermining behaviour towards the history of other nations. On the forums, there is a degree of a feeling among Americans that 'anything before America is irrelevant unless it can be used negatively against the world'. Then of course, there are those who are very proud in their heritage... TOO proud.

Of course, America has slated most other countries. And then, 'in comparison', what have they done? They've introduced fast food, which has made people fat. They've introduced shows that make TV a lifestyle, making people lazy. They've made films in recent years that are so dull that a good film is few and far between. They've started to praise the rising but still ELDCs in the world instead of praising those countries which have already developed (especially France and Germany) for not doing what the US wants to do. :D It's not envy. I wouldn't say it was an authority figure in the sense I am talking about. I think more of a peer, which has suddenly turned selfish and contradictory.

A lot of people would deny that America has an 'empire' too. While Americans talk about how America is a super power. A lot of Americans do claim that America has taken over countries with their 'culture'. Then act as if the world owe them something. =P

you see, thats something

some people dislike the american attitude that anyone who dislikes them must just be jealous

which completely misses the point
So enlighten me. What, exactly, is "the point?"

The "proof", as it were, is in the Pudding...

Does anyone believe that Lybia would have ended their WMD Program had it not been for the War in Iraq?

Does anyone believe that there would have been Elections in either Afghanistan or Iraq had the U.S. not intervened?

Does anyone think, for one moment, that Palestinians would be asking Syria to LEAVE so they can hold their own Elections if there had not been an Iraq War?

Does anyone think that Saudi Arabia would have had even the most symbolic of Democratic votes recently if it had not been for the Iraq War?

And yet all we were hearing for the entire time that we have been there is how bad we are making things Worldwide!

I'm sorry but, the events that I have cited versus what they are saying just don't seem to coincide, do they? They were all saying that these Elections weren’t going to “change” anything in the Region, and yet we are SEEING all kinds of change, are we not? Just how long do these others get to be wrong before they realize that THEY themselves have been part of the problem for a very long time now?

So while "they" will continue to ESPOUSE the many falsehoods they have been espousing, we will continue to DO what is Right...

Regards,
Gaar

Well there you go. I'd hate America too.


If I didn't hate cats. ;)

Well I didn't like the cat. So in a way I'm grateful.

But theft is theft. I have mixed feelings on the issue.

America stole my cat.
No. I stole your cat. While I am an American, you must not confuse me with America.

So enlighten me. What, exactly, is "the point?"
everyone has different reasons, but im pretty certain for the vast majority of people who arent too fond of the US at the minute, the reason is not jealousy or envy

its also incredibely self centred to say America...you really should have said the USA. the rest of America is pretty much fine

America is also a hub of fundamentalist Christians... and there are quite a few of them on the NS forums. They talk as if segregated enlightenment is universal truth and that annoys atheists, agnostics and other religious folk across the world. The US media 'truth' that America is controlled by the religiously influenced George Bush is also horror beyond comprehension in a world where everyone is meant to have the right to practise their beliefs.

Now, what was it that one american sergeant said after they had taken over an airfield in northern Afghanistan...
Oh yeah, something like this: "Now we've landed and taken over a piece of Afghanistan."...
And don't start telling me he's the only officer acting like that.
And no, I'm no from any of those countries you mentioned. I'm finnish and our country's always been too small to become a superpower (not becouse of the lack of trying...)

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Today pray for our Nation and our Soldiers.

Regards,
Gaar

Now, what was it that one american sergeant said after they had taken over an airfield in northern Afghanistan...
Oh yeah, something like this: "Now we've landed and taken over a piece of Afghanistan."...
And don't start telling me he's the only officer acting like that.
And no, I'm no from any of those countries you mentioned. I'm finnish and our country's always been too small to become a superpower (not becouse of the lack of trying...)
I suspect that comment represents little more than the pride of the soldier in question. I am sure that when the government in Afghanistan is stable and its military are capable of dealing with those who want to overthrow it, all American troops will promptly leave. It has never been America's policy or practice to annex foreign soil.

BTW ... seargents are not officers.

3. Envy.You do realise that saying people are jealous of you makes them hate you even more, right? It makes you all look like a bunch of egotistical, bigheaded dicks.

Why not?

Some less-than-self-congratulatory ideas on why people dislike america and the americans:

1) America's bankrupt culture
This refers broadly to the comparative stupidity of the americans on average to people in other developed countries. Their religiosity, lack of education and lack of critical reasoning.

2) America's corrupt leadership

3) America's vast avarice
As a proportion of GDP, america's aid contributions are paltry in comparison to those of much else of the developed world.
Also, americans already pay the lowest taxes in the developed world, but constantly hem and haw in their greed for more money.

I would wager that if you actually asked some people who didnt like the US or the americans, those would be the kind of answers they gave.

You do realise that saying people are jealous of you makes them hate you even more, right? It makes you all look like a bunch of egotistical, bigheaded dicks.
how enlightening. :rolleyes:

No. I stole your cat. While I am an American, you must not confuse me with America.

No chance. If I can confuse myself with the king and queen of cheese, inclusive, confusing a person with a nation is really not likely to get solved incredibly soon.

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

^^^ sucks

(perspective of an ex pat american who "aint" never going back to that hole again.)

And of course your thread is flame bait..... Don't think you can call it the other way, then watch it blow up thus absolving you from your patriotic monkey knuckle dragging chest poundings. Anti-American???? No, anti imperialist expansionist empire with loose ethics for dealings with anything non american.
That's the truth..... sucks to be you for swallowing your propaganda so heartily.

Good Day.

i dont dislike all Americans, but heres a few reasons

you spent 40 years propping up dictatorships and helping terrorists.

the vast majority of the IRAs funding comes from the US, and the IRA has done its best to destroy the place where i live

America prances round the world like it knows best, like someone has given them the position of the world police, being entirely hypocritical in its foreign affairs, and telling other countries what to do

that enough?

Yes, we have done some very bad things in the past, just as we have done some very good things.

Are either of those two things ANY reason to not do what is right, right now?

Regards,
Gaar

I do not care for their current government - Bush n' Pals. But the people seem all right. At least the ones I met in the past. While it's true they supported petty tin pot dictaters in the past as well as had promising condidates for election in other countries assasinated. Most countries have done something like that in the past.

-----------------------------------------

"The foundation of many a nation is founded on genecide. And there is a figure in the distance who holds a bloody sword or a smoking gun"

- Myself -

I think 1 & 4 certainly are good points. But they only contribute to a greater tributary as it flows into the river of Hate.
I don't hate. :cool:

But I know I personally dislike 'America' because of it's undermining behaviour towards the history of other nations. On the forums, there is a degree of a feeling among Americans that 'anything before America is irrelevant unless it can be used negatively against the world'. Then of course, there are those who are very proud in their heritage... TOO proud.

Certainly not my view...

Of course, America has slated most other countries. And then, 'in comparison', what have they done? They've introduced fast food, which has made people fat. They've introduced shows that make TV a lifestyle, making people lazy. They've made films in recent years that are so dull that a good film is few and far between. They've started to praise the rising but still ELDCs in the world instead of praising those countries which have already developed (especially France and Germany) for not doing what the US wants to do. :D It's not envy. I wouldn't say it was an authority figure in the sense I am talking about. I think more of a peer, which has suddenly turned selfish and contradictory.
We didn't make other people buy the stuff though. If it wasn't appealing on some level or another, I don't think it would be there. Basic market economics. If you hate American fast food, movies and tv, then don't partake of them. No one is making you or your fellow countrymen.

A lot of people would deny that America has an 'empire' too. While Americans talk about how America is a super power. A lot of Americans do claim that America has taken over countries with their 'culture'. Then act as if the world owe them something. =P
It's not as if we made other countries accept our culture, if they don't like it, then they don't buy it.

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Today pray for our Nation and our Soldiers.

Regards,
Gaar
I love that quote. And I pray for my Country and its military personnel every day of my life. :)

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Today pray for our Nation and our Soldiers.

Regards,
Gaar

Like that question hadn't been pre-anticipated?

And that's another thing...

OUR nations and OUR soldiers. It feels like a blatant ignorance that you refer to what appears like US soldiers. Why not all the troops who are in Iraq right now? That annoys me. It probably annoys other people.

It's like trying to argue with a wall.

People will always invent reasons to hate something, and those reasons can always gain large amounts of support from entire nations, even. Like Nazis.

America-bashers are basically anti-American Nazis.

Heil Kofi?

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Today pray for our Nation and our Soldiers.

Regards,
Gaar

It should come as no surprise that colin powell would lie to the archbishop of canterbury to further the interests of the US, he has proven himself to be an unabashed liar.

A more accurate characterization of the US model of foreign intervention would be. "Over the years, america has sent its young men out to various countries and killed innumerable foreigners, all we have asked in return is the cooperation of friendly new governments with the industries best represented in our own."

America's arrogance exemplified by your post is one reason.

You unwittingly pointed out one of the reasons in your own post:
Preoccupation with military strength. It's typical of many American internet users to speak of strong and weak countries, as if something as complex as global influence could be reduced to such terms. This oversimplification leads to disastrous misunderstandings, including the following:
"The Kyoto Treaty is a big mistake, because it was made to punish America"
"We should be careful about the EU because they're jealous of our power and will try to get stronger"
Dismantling either of these claims is such a monumental task that instead of trying, many Europeans will simply adopt a smug attitude. I'll be the first to grant that arrogance is just as condemnable as ignorance, so I can't accept the European reaction. If someone has wrong info, wouldn't it be common courtesy to correct it?

Another point that causes friction is the general idea that America has more "freedom" than the rest of the world. However, when it comes to providing proof or even anecdotes, jingoists are at a loss. They can point out sections in the US Constitution (one of the finest documents ever penned), but this tells nothing of the situation in practice. In reality, there are nations with higher standards of press freedom and lower government corruption than the USA. Another indicator of freedom might be degree to which individual citizens can affect policymaking. A two-party system isn't really ideal in this respect.

Whereas America-bashers need to get their facts straight, Americans need to realise that not all criticism of USA is jealous diatribe. Some of it is thoughtful and worthy of consideration by Americans. There are times when I feel that US citizens are fundamentally opposed to any change that originates from abroad.

I think the part of your post on "Envy" puts a finger on the problem; not in what you posted but that you posted such a thing. It is the superiority attitude that Americans put across, and that others respond to, that is what brings on the alleged anti-American attitude in response. In saying such things, you, like many Americans, come across as being self-ignorant, seemingly unaware that what you say and do could possibly invoke negative emotion in others.

I don't hate. :cool:



Certainly not my view...


We didn't make other people buy the stuff though. If it wasn't appealing on some level or another, I don't think it would be there. Basic market economics. If you hate American fast food, movies and tv, then don't partake of them. No one is making you or your fellow countrymen.


It's not as if we made other countries accept our culture, if they don't like it, then they don't buy it.

Yes, but we buy it. We do with it as we please. We buy it because we want it. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden we are a 'Little America far from home' as some people would see, only witnessing the development of a world-wide American dominance due to purchase of American goods from foreign countries.

i dont dislike all Americans, but heres a few reasons

you spent 40 years propping up dictatorships and helping terrorists.

the vast majority of the IRAs funding comes from the US, and the IRA has done its best to destroy the place where i live

America prances round the world like it knows best, like someone has given them the position of the world police, being entirely hypocritical in its foreign affairs, and telling other countries what to do

that enough?
America has never supported the IRA. Irish-Americans have contributed money to the IRA, but here in America what individuals do with their own money is largely their own business.

As to American propping up dictatorships, that was largely a function of the Cold War, using the analogy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." I have never thought that was a good idea, and now that it is American policy to support the development of democracy around the world, some of the same people who use to rant about our "propping up dictatorships" are the same people ranting that it's not America's "place" to "impose democracy on other nations."

I for one, intensely desire our government to simply do what is right and to hell with anyone who has a problem with it. But then, that's just my "American arrogance" coming through. :rolleyes:

Like that question hadn't been pre-anticipated?

And that's another thing...

OUR nations and OUR soldiers. It feels like a blatant ignorance that you refer to what appears like US soldiers. Why not all the troops who are in Iraq right now? That annoys me. It probably annoys other people.

I suppose it was because he was being ASKED about OUR Troops and OUR Soldiers...

So it would seem to me that his answer was appropriate for the question asked, was it not?

Regards,
Gaar

I do not care for their current government - Bush n' Pals. But the people seem all right. At least the ones I met in the past. While it's true they supported petty tin pot dictaters in the past as well as had promising condidates for election in other countries assasinated. Most countries have done something like that in the past.



Have you met americans who travelled overseas, or lived here?

Yes, but we buy it. We do with it as we please. We buy it because we want it. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden we are a 'Little America far from home' as some people would see, only witnessing the development of a world-wide American dominance due to purchase of American goods from foreign countries.
I'd almost say we're talking about two different points...

Have you met americans who travelled overseas, or lived here?
Ooh! Ooh! I have! I've been overseas!

America stole my cat.

We had a cat that moved into one of our bathrooms when the weather got cold and won't leave it. Could it be yours?

Yes, but we buy it. We do with it as we please. We buy it because we want it. It doesn't mean that all of a sudden we are a 'Little America far from home' as some people would see, only witnessing the development of a world-wide American dominance due to purchase of American goods from foreign countries.

Often people from other nations have no choice but to buy american goods as their leaders or either strong armed through political, economic, and or military methods. It amounts to extortion.

Some of the worst atrocities from america have happened when it has no enemies.

"and the blue collared people go whoop da whoop da whoop whoop whoop da whoop whoop whoop whoop da da whoop whoop" :rolleyes:

It should come as no surprise that colin powell would lie to the archbishop of canterbury to further the interests of the US, he has proven himself to be an unabashed liar.

A more accurate characterization of the US model of foreign intervention would be. "Over the years, america has sent its young men out to various countries and killed innumerable foreigners, all we have asked in return is the cooperation of friendly new governments with the industries best represented in our own."

Hmmmm....

All that money we put into Europe, through the Marshal Plan, and we didn't do any of what you mentioned here, did we?

So because our "Industry", which is not controlled by our Government by the way, comes in to make products that you obviously are buying but refer to as "westernizing", is somehow OUR fault? If you don't like the "goods" don't BUY THEM! Then "Western Businesses" would go away, since they are based in MAKING MONEY and wouldn't be able to do so if you didn't patronize them...

Something about Freedom, Democracy and Capatalism you don't get?

Regards,
Gaar

Often people from other nations have no choice but to buy american goods as their leaders or either strong armed through political, economic, and or military methods. It amounts to extortion.

Some of the worst atrocities from america have happened when it has no enemies.

"and the blue collared people go whoop da whoop da whoop whoop whoop da whoop whoop whoop whoop da da whoop whoop" :rolleyes:
The national governments may be forced to allow American companies in, but no one is forcing the people to buy their goods.

Or maybe you are talking about foreign "aid." Here's a little lesson on foreign aid. When nation A gives nation B foreign aid, nation A attaches a caveat that the money must be spent on nation A companies. That's how every nations foreign aid is. No one is innocent of this. We don't just hand out money to be nice.

Is it really wrong to give someone money and tell them to spend the money at a friends store?

I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Personally I've never been for knee jerk reactions, the speak to the moment and have usually little to do with the facts. I have always believed that actions speak louder than words, so people can tell me the sky is green all they like, but if I look up and see blue, that's all I need. In other words, perhaps when the actions back up the words, things might be like the old days, who knows, stranger things have happened.

I suppose it was because he was being ASKED about OUR Troops and OUR Soldiers...

So it would seem to me that his answer was appropriate for the question asked, was it not?

Regards,
Gaar

Even so, the US is the only country I would expect to do that because I've seen it do it so many times before. America is certainly guilty of self adoration - perhaps if he had acknowledged other countries in his answer, his answer would have been completely sound.

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

Because Anti-Americanism is the term employed by so many conservatives these days to mean criticism of our current government's policies, I shall take your use of the term to include it, if not to refer specifically to that.

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

Well, being a large target certainly makes it easier to hit. Pretty much anything America does on the international scene is going to have bad consequences for some nation, even if it tries to make things better for the world as a whole. We don't really do that though, we do what's best for us in the short term and that leaves a lot of people in countries left worse off for our gain.

We've become the proverbial 500 lbs. gorilla. We don't technically have to care about the people who's beds we're siezing, but we don't really have a right to comlpain that they're not happy for the privilege of being shat upon by us.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

So then explain our intervention in Iraq. It had nothing to do with terrorism and didn't harbor terrorists until we overthrew Sadam. The US has never intervened because of human rights. We intervene because of money and use human rights as an excuse whereever it's plausible. Remember the "ethnic Albanians" under Clinton? Check out how that region fared after the IMF got through with it as a result of our intervention.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

I'll remember this next time you complain bout rap culture. This would be what in ebonics would be termed, "a playa bustin' on da hataz." But which if applied to rappers you would probably call uncultured hoods wallowing in depravity and not even knowing how wrong their lifestyle is, so they just accuse others of jealousy.

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

Is that why we invade and overthrow democratically elected governments in South America and replace them with Right wing death squads? Ever heard of a little something called Iran/Contra? And of course the "gassed his own people" incident with Sadam didn't keep us from being friends with him for a long time afterwards. We didn't get upset about it until we realized the invasion of Kuwait, that we told him we didn't care about, was in fact against a British oil company, the stock of which was a large part of the portfolio's of many prominent American billionaires.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

You mean like the Phillipenes, Hawaii, Guam, the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, the former Lakota nation and the Cherokee nation? Those places? We never made an effort to keep any of them and we've given them all back?

Besides which, America is almost an empire with just it's own 50 states. An empire is a government which rules over lesser governments. The only thing that seperates an empire from a Federalist Republic is meaningful votes and respect for civil rights. Both of which are eroding tremendously in this country.

There is also the matter that empires, in the classical sense, are a bit of an anachronism. These days it is much more efficient to simply control their trade. Most people don't realize that while ancient Rome commited some atrocities in creating its empire, it mostly only concerned itself with collecting their wealth. They didn't really excersise a lot of control on the territories themselves. In that sense, America is already an empire as are the other G8 nations to a much lesser degree.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

Well, I may have been a little sarcastic, but I think I've been rather calm and reasoned. People in other countries seem to have very just cause in their dislike for American policy and those of us here who don't like it have some very moral and rational reasons for doing so.

Have you a defense for America's recent behavior that goes beyond the fallacious argument that we're "spreading democracy," which we hardly ever do, and with little success when we do it, or dismissing foreigners dislike for our policies with something along the lines of "America roolz dammit?"

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Today pray for our Nation and our Soldiers.

Regards,
Gaar

I don't know how to put this politely, but you've been had.
What you posted is known in the urban legend community as a glurge (http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp).

What's even more sad is that the person who originally said that was a Soviet general lamenting a failed military campaign: "We gained 57,000 km² [22,000 square miles] of territory. Just enough to bury our dead."
(Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War))

Hmmmm....

All that money we put into Europe, through the Marshal Plan, and we didn't do any of what you mentioned here, did we?

So because our "Industry", which is not controlled by our Government by the way, comes in to make products that you obviously are buying but refer to as "westernizing", is somehow OUR fault? If you don't like the "goods" don't BUY THEM! Then "Western Businesses" would go away, since they are based in MAKING MONEY and wouldn't be able to do so if you didn't patronize them...

Something about Freedom, Democracy and Capatalism you don't get?

Regards,
Gaar



It is to america's great discredit that the men, now deceased, responsible for such things as the marshall plan have had their country put on all fours by its leadership since then.

I do not buy american trash, or american trash made in china. This however, is a luxury, as the americans and chinese have established consumer hegemony with their ability to mass produce things at low cost.

Also, as you seem quite new, I reside in Arizona so your banter about 'western business' makes even less sense than it would if I lived in, say, France.

One of the things we must realize here, is that the US now realizes that it has made mistakes in the past. We realize that our support of dictators during the cold war has created a brew that tastes downright nasty. As such, we are trying to remedy our mistakes, one by one. We are starting in the middles east, but we are trying to spread it out. I

Maybe America is making new decisions from the old ones.

The national governments may be forced to allow American companies in, but no one is forcing the people to buy their goods.

Or maybe you are talking about foreign "aid." Here's a little lesson on foreign aid. When nation A gives nation B foreign aid, nation A attaches a caveat that the money must be spent on nation A companies. That's how every nations foreign aid is. No one is innocent of this. We don't just hand out money to be nice.

What a limited view you hold on the US... You have no idea what other nations deal with on a day to day basis.

I'm not talking about foreign aid.... that's your attempt at painting other nations as weakened pet projects of the US, which require a helpful hand of god, in american speak.... America.

Many nations recieve nothing from the US in aid as it's not required.... that's when trade wrangling comes in.... politics and capitalism merge... ceo's and senators with hands in each other's pockets construct mandates which has other nations prevented from selling their own goods in their country because it's all the sudden been outlawed subtlely.

Crops are burnt, grains rot in silos, animals are snuffed.... as large co2 banana boats and orange tankers make their revolutions around the seas waiting for the moment to gas their green cargo and drop of the gear on nations.

America destroys it's competition... one way or another.

While Americans blindly swear allegiance to it, and act like hooligans online when asked to consider that their nation is just as shitful, if not more than other nations around the world.

I hope someone drops an estrogen bomb on the states.... all the boneheads walking around might get a reprieve from acting disfunctionally erect.

And for your information... America is not the greatest nation in the world. Take that info from an american who has spent the last 14 years luckily away from it.

I'd almost say we're talking about two different points...

Perhaps because your reply wasn't all that good? =D I mean, I DON'T buy fast food, but that doesn't mean I can stop the rest of the country buying fast food. I would if I could. Fast food is poor and America is to blame for it :P It's just a shame kids love the little cartoon characters that endorse it. Fine cuisine and good food need not stoop to that level... but then, I haven't met a kid who likes extravagant food.

Chinese and Indian takeaways in place of every McDonalds and Subway (my God, why do those places smell like pressure sores? And you complain British food is bad, LOL)

Listen, both sides are really like talking to a wall. It's just really sad that people actually HATE America. We have our share of problems, to be sure, and our current administration is horrible, but on the whole, we are simply trying to do our best in this world. Sure, many people in this country claim that America is superior to all, but there are those in every country.
It's really unfortunate that someone could HATE a country that has saved so many. Yes, our actions have also killed many, and we've made our share of mistakes, but largely, we've tried to do our best. Believe it or not, the majority of Americans DO care for the rest of the world and would rather not see conflict. I don't hate any country, not even NK or Iran. I might hate their governments, but that doesn't mean the people should be hated. Listen, all I'm trying to say is that many of you need to cut the U.S. a little more slack. As it is, we basically get none because we are in the spotlight. Be a little more reasonable people.

So people hate America and Americans (well, they dislike the governemt actually) because of the positive things America does? How odd.

One of the things we must realize here, is that the US now realizes that it has made mistakes in the past. We realize that our support of dictators during the cold war has created a brew that tastes downright nasty. As such, we are trying to remedy our mistakes, one by one. We are starting in the middles east, but we are trying to spread it out. I

Maybe America is making new decisions from the old ones.

But the problem is that we're going about it with the same thick-headed, our-way-or-be-damned methods that we used throughout the Cold War. When we wanted to remedy our mistakes in the middle east, Iraq in particular, we didn't work with the world to find the best solution. We said, "We know what the best way to go about things is and we're going to do it regardless of what the rest of you think."

1. You unwittingly pointed out one of the reasons in your own post: Preoccupation with military strength. It's typical of many American internet users to speak of strong and weak countries, as if something as complex as global influence could be reduced to such terms.

2. Another point that causes friction is the general idea that America has more "freedom" than the rest of the world.

3. Americans need to realise that not all criticism of USA is jealous diatribe. Some of it is thoughtful and worthy of consideration by Americans. There are times when I feel that US citizens are fundamentally opposed to any change that originates from abroad.
1. America has learned the hard way that having a strong military is often the only means to remaining free. There are other ways to influence, but in the final analysis, not keeping your powder dry can get you real dead.

2. America compared to whom? Sweden? No. Chad? Yes. Some examples would be nice.

3. Americans can be rather touchy about this issue. We see ourselves not only as being perfectly capable of managing our own affairs ( as do most citizens in a democracy ), but also see ourselves as being a mixture of sufficient diverse nationalities, religions and what have you, to have a sufficiency of differing views not to need non-Americans to tell us what we "really" need.

So people hate America and Americans (well, they dislike the governemt actually) because of the positive things America does? How odd.
Actually, there's considerable truth in that.

I would wager that the majority of people in the world who genuine *hate* american and the americans fall into two categories:

1) People who have had loved ones killed by the american or israeli military.

2) People who hate israel, and hate america for being israel's patron state.

Perhaps because your reply wasn't all that good? =D I mean, I DON'T buy fast food, but that doesn't mean I can stop the rest of the country buying fast food. I would if I could. Fast food is poor and America is to blame for it :P It's just a shame kids love the little cartoon characters that endorse it. Fine cuisine and good food need not stoop to that level... but then, I haven't met a kid who likes extravagant food.

Chinese and Indian takeaways in place of every McDonalds and Subway (my God, why do those places smell like pressure sores? And you complain British food is bad, LOL)
I'd say it's more the people who purchase the foods fault. If it wasn't desirable in some manner or another, and they stopped buying it, then it might just improve to attempt to get people to purchase.

If I offer muddy water as a curative health drink for twenty dollars a glass, and people buy it, is it my fault that it's popular?

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

right on, brother. i hate all the people who bitch about america, especially when they can't back it up.

Even so, the US is the only country I would expect to do that because I've seen it do it so many times before. America is certainly guilty of self adoration - perhaps if he had acknowledged other countries in his answer, his answer would have been completely sound.

Really? Perhaps you wouldn't mind citing a specific "example" instead of just "saying" that you have "seen it" so many other times?

Because I can point to MANY times in which not only Colin Powel but Bush himself has cited the assistance of ALL of the other Countries involved not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan...

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/n06052003_200306052.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2004/n05202004_200405205.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3228650.stm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/iraq-030328-afps06.htm

Regards,
Gaar

1. America has learned the hard way that having a strong military is often the only means to remaining free. There are other ways to influence, but in the final analysis, not keeping your powder dry can get you real dead.

2. America compared to whom? Sweden? No. Chad? Yes. Some examples would be nice.

3. Americans can be rather touchy about this issue. We see ourselves not only as being perfectly capable of managing our own affairs ( as do most citizens in a democracy ), but also see ourselves as being a mixture of sufficient diverse nationalities, religions and what have you, to have a sufficiency of differing views not to need non-Americans to tell us what we "really" need.

2. Why did you even reply to that, lol? You know very well the kind of reference which was being made. Britain would be a perfect example. It seems there is less censorship in British media and art, I've heard many Americans (Matt Groening for one, being that he is a very important figure to make reference to)... I'll throw some names out for the hell of it... Canada, Germany, Sweden, Australia... I would say France, but... HEH!

I'd say it's more the people who purchase the foods fault. If it wasn't desirable in some manner or another, and they stopped buying it, then it might just improve to attempt to get people to purchase.

If I offer muddy water as a curative health drink for twenty dollars a glass, and people buy it, is it my fault that it's popular?

If you spend untold millions of dollars having the muddy water engineered to taste as appealing as possible to as many people as possible,

then untold more millions of dollars convincing people that it was good and that they ought to want and buy it,

and if you made it less expensive than healthier substitutes and much more convenient to get,
your analogy would apply.

And culpability would be largely yours.

1. America has learned the hard way that having a strong military is often the only means to remaining free. There are other ways to influence, but in the final analysis, not keeping your powder dry can get you real dead.

2. America compared to whom? Sweden? No. Chad? Yes. Some examples would be nice.

3. Americans can be rather touchy about this issue. We see ourselves not only as being perfectly capable of managing our own affairs ( as do most citizens in a democracy ), but also see ourselves as being a mixture of sufficient diverse nationalities, religions and what have you, to have a sufficiency of differing views not to need non-Americans to tell us what we "really" need.

2. Why did you even reply to that, lol? You know very well the kind of reference which was being made. Britain would be a perfect example. It seems there is less censorship in British media and art, I've heard many Americans (Matt Groening for one, being that he is a very important figure to make reference to)... I'll throw some names out for the hell of it... Canada, Germany, Sweden, Australia... I would say France, but... HEH!

Some of the worst atrocities from america have happened when it has no enemies.
Name one.

Really? Perhaps you wouldn't mind citing a specific "example" instead of just "saying" that you have "seen it" so many other times?

Because I can point to MANY times in which not only Colin Powel but Bush himself has cited the assistance of ALL of the other Countries involved not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan...

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2003/n06052003_200306052.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2004/n05202004_200405205.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3228650.stm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/iraq-030328-afps06.htm

Regards,
Gaar

Do you really need to make me look through forums just for a reference? I think most people have seen a time or another where it's happened. And I'm not talking about Bush or Powell... They know better than to f**k up so much when they're under international watch. Your links are irrelevant, because I was talking of the average American who decides to log in on the internet. I didn't say I would expect it from Bush or anybody in a political international stance to say otherwise. It's just a point of respect more than anything and while the topic is why people dislike America... I thought it was relevant.

But food for thought... Why 'God Bless America'? I've always wanted to know. Sure, within the country it is fine... But I'm sure people use it out of spite on these internationally used forums and on the internet in general.

Personally I've never been for knee jerk reactions, they speak to the moment and have usually little to do with the facts. I have always believed that actions speak louder than words, so people can tell me the sky is green all they like, but if I look up and see blue, that's all I need. In other words, perhaps when the actions back up the words, things might be like the old days, who knows, stranger things have happened.

I actually should qualify this. I dislike the American government and the things it has done over the last 50 years or so.. However, I do not dislike most American people.

Personally I've never been for knee jerk reactions, the speak to the moment and have usually little to do with the facts. I have always believed that actions speak louder than words, so people can tell me the sky is green all they like, but if I look up and see blue, that's all I need. In other words, perhaps when the actions back up the words, things might be like the old days, who knows, stranger things have happened.
Is this a riddle or something? Care to elaborate and be a bit more specific?

Well I'm an American, and I have heard a few good compliants lodged against my country, as well as alot of bad ones. Here is a list of some things that bring about criticism both good and bad about the US:

1. It seems that many Americans are very wasteful because we take things for granted. Example "I remember helping with a Church garage sale for my Church youth group. Me and my mom got really annoyed with the people in charge of the group because they kept throwing aways things that were slightly broken. Several of these items could have been fixed easily or used as spare parts. Another example would be to look at how much food we, Americans, throw away.

2. Compared to Europeans, the Americans are more gong-ho about war. This isn't because we are a bunch of warmongering bigots, unlike the Europeans countires, the US hasn't ever suffered massive devastion caused by a war. Frankly, if my hometown had been destroyed by 2 World Wars in less than a century and many of my members were killed in the process. Well I would be a bit reluctant to start a war, and it would have little to do with being a coward.

3. Our govenment's actions, as well as the actions of other nations, are influenced by the rule of: "My people come first and I don't give a shit if I fuck everyone else over." Face the US gov't serves US citizens, the French gov't serves French citizens, neither one gives a damn about what non-citizens have to about them. Of course being a Superpower, only amplifies problems caused by following the above rule because it makes it easier for the US gov't to get what it wants.

4. Ignorance, which has been helped quite a bit by anti-American individuals. Its not hard to hate someone, if some bigot only feeds you information on all of the bad things that they have done.

5. Egotism, almost everyone suffers from. Unfortunately, there a quite a few people who will go to great lengths to make sure that his or her ego isn't hurt.

Note: That Americans can also be guilty of both 4 and 5.

I don't know how to put this politely, but you've been had.
What you posted is known in the urban legend community as a glurge (http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp).

What's even more sad is that the person who originally said that was a Soviet general lamenting a failed military campaign: "We gained 57,000 km² [22,000 square miles] of territory. Just enough to bury our dead."
(Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War))
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/powell.asp

Snopes is a much more reputable source than Wikipedia, since anyone can post anything on Wikipedia at any time.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

Aah. So Mexico just gave you California cause they liked you so much?
And those bases were not installed to defend other nations. They were installed to keep the US save.

2. America compared to whom? Sweden? No. Chad? Yes. Some examples would be nice.

My point was that America is not any "freer" than most developed Western nations. If you want some numbers, here's the International Press Freedom Index (http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715) for 2004, by Reporters Without Borders and the Global Corruption Index (http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2004/cpi2004.en.html#cpi2004) by Transparency International.

Hmmmm....

All that money we put into Europe, through the Marshal Plan, and we didn't do any of what you mentioned here, did we?

Actually, we did. Wealthy Europeans had more than enough money to pay for basic rebuilding of national infrastructure (which is what we did), but we preferred that they keep their money in New York banks, invested in our companies, rather than investing them for the public good. The American taxpayer had to bail out the European taxpayer, while the rich stayed at about the same level they were at before the war. And during the Cold War, West Germany was very happy to deal in American goods and German goods that Americans held stock in.

I would wager that the majority of people in the world who genuine *hate* american and the americans fall into two categories:

1) People who have had loved ones killed by the american or israeli military.

2) People who hate israel, and hate america for being israel's patron state.
So those posting their hate on here are either relatives of dead terrorists or Israel-haters? Hmmm.

Aah. So Mexico just gave you California cause they liked you so much?
And those bases were not installed to defend other nations. They were installed to keep the US save.

I believe a great factor in the end of the Cuban Missile Crisis was due to the US Turkish missile bases. So to some degree this is true. Of course, I'm not saying any other country is free of dirty tactics... I just find that the US is not so true to themselves. I mean, all other superpowers have played filthy, the US is not so dirty. I think I would feel more safe and happy if the US if they just admitted they were as evil as the rest of us. :P

I mean, 'the police of the world'? Kinda racist police.

Aah. So Mexico just gave you California cause they liked you so much?

You choose to generalize and place all americans into one category because of something the government did. in this case, you refer to government actions of over a century ago. newsflah: not a single american alive today was involved in the annexation of california. you don't like the fact that the government at the time took it? tough. please stop bitching at me for something i wasn't involved in.

They were installed to keep the US save.

and this is a crime? stop living in your own twisted little world. someone else already said it, but i'll say it again. the US government serves the US.

"This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations."

I am a very patriotic American, but this is untrue we took:
Florida, Cuba, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, ect from Spain
California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas from Mexico
Hawaii from Hawaii
Islands and bases in Japan, Germany, Italy, ect
the Panama Canal from Colombia

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/powell.asp

Amazing. It's somehow spooky that Powell would use the rhetoric of a totalitarian Communist state. Having studied international politics, he must have stumbled across the original quotation at some point, though. Perhaps it was just a simple mistake.

So those posting their hate on here are either relatives of dead terrorists or Israel-haters? Hmmm.
*butting in for a sec* You don't have to be a relative to love someone.

Have you met americans who travelled overseas, or lived here?

I worked with them at "dig" sites as we in my field call it. Like I said they seem alright to me. I just don't care for the current government, that's all.

Actually, we did. Wealthy Europeans had more than enough money to pay for basic rebuilding of national infrastructure (which is what we did), but we preferred that they keep their money in New York banks, invested in our companies, rather than investing them for the public good. The American taxpayer had to bail out the European taxpayer, while the rich stayed at about the same level they were at before the war. And during the Cold War, West Germany was very happy to deal in American goods and German goods that Americans held stock in.

Is that anything like the rest of the world having to pay for September 11th in insurance premium hikes while the US did very little to take care of an act of war within it's own public budget?

:rolleyes:

*butting in for a sec* You don't have to be a relative to love someone.

touching, but then that just means that you would agree that anti-american posters on here loved dead terrorists and anti-israelis.

First of all, while most 1st world nations don't have the debt, erm I mean the super power status of the United States, I fail to see where "envy" would come into play given many first world nations, my country included have a much higher standard of living than that of the United States. So that's a non-starter.

I could go through point by point, but I'd just be accused of "hating" America which I don't. I'm not terribly fussy on some of the actions that the American government has carried out over a long period of time since the end of WWII. However, that is a personal opinion, no different than Americans who think their country is the greatest is also a personal opinion.

I believe a great factor in the end of the Cuban Missile Crisis was due to the US Turkish missile bases. So to some degree this is true.
But the Cuban missiles were aimed at the US. Not Turkey.

touching, but then that just means that you would agree that anti-american posters on here loved dead terrorists and anti-israelis.
That makes no sense.

If you spend untold millions of dollars having the muddy water engineered to taste as appealing as possible to as many people as possible,

then untold more millions of dollars convincing people that it was good and that they ought to want and buy it,

and if you made it less expensive than healthier substitutes and much more convenient to get,
your analogy would apply.

And culpability would be largely yours.

And if you hired "union breakers" to destroy the businesses of anyone who tried to set up competing businesses. Or got America to grant you a "foreign monopoly" which means that the american government will put pressure on local governments to supress competition.

But the Cuban missiles were aimed at the US. Not Turkey.

I think he means that the USSR put nuclear missles in Cuba and pointed them at us because we put them in Turkey and pointed them at the USSR.

You choose to generalize and place all americans into one category because of something the government did. in this case, you refer to government actions of over a century ago. newsflah: not a single american alive today was involved in the annexation of california. you don't like the fact that the government at the time took it? tough. please stop bitching at me for something i wasn't involved in.
So what about Eutruscas statement that the US NEVER kept any land? Or was that your statement?



and this is a crime? stop living in your own twisted little world. someone else already said it, but i'll say it again. the US government serves the US.
No. But don't pretend it was a great noble thing which was only done to benefit the nations that had those bases planted on their soil.

I actually should qualify this. I dislike the American government and the things it has done over the last 50 years or so.. However, I do not dislike most American people.

You're not being logical. The american government is the democratically elected representation of the american people.

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"


You've just answered your own question. The majority of Americans are ignorant and arrogant. The worst possible mix.

I think he means that the USSR put nuclear missles in Cuba and pointed them at us because we put them in Turkey and pointed them at the USSR.
Ah ok. Then I misunderstood him.

'cause china has'nt attacked you yet

That makes no sense.

someone said that people post anti-american stuff on here because they had loved ones killed by the american military

etrusca replied that that would mean that the anti-american posters were relatives of dead terrorists and anti-israelis

you 'butted in' saying that you don't need to be related to someone to love them

this would mean that, at least logically following etrusca's statement (as i assumed you were) you feel that anti-american posters LOVED dead terrorists or anti-israelis.

But the Cuban missiles were aimed at the US. Not Turkey.

Cuba has missiles directed towards the US.
Turkey had missiles directed towards the USSR.

The Cuban missiles were from the USSR. The Turkish missiles were from the US. Don't quote me on the pedantics (I'm not sure where the missiles were made), but I know the sides were as such.

You're not being logical. The american government is the democratically elected representation of the american people.
51% majority is not = representing *all* the people.

People hate America because it's trendy.

I personally could not care less what someone in Sweden says about my country. Is this because I'm ignorant?

Nuh-uh... I know damn well that Sweden is higher than the US on these "quality of life" lists that the UN puts out. Of course, someone in Europe sees that and they say "HA! America must suck!" and then they come here and wave that link around like a mighty e-penis. Now, tell me who is more ignorant.

The person who knows about the UN list and accepts it as the truth, shrugs, and continues with his life

or

The person who saw one 'fact' on the list and goes around using it as a nerf bat to hit people in the crotch.

I lean towards the first myself, but maybe I'm just ignorant ;)

And then the Foreign Aid comment? I couldn't agree more.

It's simply stupid to just hand away money and say "Oh here don't spend it all in one place" like Grandma used to. Anyone who had a Grandma like that probably went out and spent it all in one place just to spite her.

Now Grandma gives you a gift cerficate to Foot Locker (or a comparable shoe store). Well, you're still all spending it all in one place, but now you're spending it in the place that Grandma wanted you to shop at. You get shoes which you needed, and Grandma gets the satisfaction that her $50 or however much was spent on something useful and not a new controller for your X-box.

Human nature is the name of the game here. Everyone's a bit racist/nationalist whether they want to say it or not. I'm gonna get quoted and flamed for that last sentence, but anyone who does it is just displaying ignorance. We all want to be better than the next guy. It doesn't matter if the next guy is your best friend or is some guy in Sweden talking about how great this list of UN countries is with the names in alphabetical order that puts all of Europe above the United States, making European nations superior (just kidding). You'll be better than your friend by going and buying a new X-box before him, and you'll try to justify being better than the Swede by making a half-assed attempt to explain American Foreign Policy (like I kind of did above, but I'm a little bit nationalist ;) ).

I bet if Sweden were the superpower and America were the socialist European nation, Sweden would be getting all of the flak and we'd be sitting pretty. But, whatever.

Personally its because you keep trying to push us around up north. We say no, you say "BLAME CANADA". We say yes, you say "Good Dog". We say that we want to put money into healthcare, you say "NORTH KOREA HAS N00Kz! OMFG BUY OUR MISSILES AND SUPPORT OUR MILITARY ECONOMIC COMPLEX!"

lmao - I would find some irony with America arguing with the rest of the world to the point where China or India etc. managed to obtain their own global power which had an equal strength as the US, then have said nation turn around and say 'We hate America'.

"This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations."

I am a very patriotic American, but this is untrue we took:
Florida, Cuba, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, ect from Spain
California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas from Mexico
Hawaii from Hawaii
Islands and bases in Japan, Germany, Italy, ect
the Panama Canal from Colombia

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Typical anti american cowardice. Retreating behind facts and "truth" when the irrational polemic is so clearly against you. Why don't you go and grow a backbone and get an opinion of your own instead of repeating stuff just because it happens to be true. ;)

"This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations."

I am a very patriotic American, but this is untrue we took:
Florida, Cuba, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, ect from Spain
California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas from Mexico
Hawaii from Hawaii
Islands and bases in Japan, Germany, Italy, ect
the Panama Canal from Colombia

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Yeah but how of those places were bloodbaths

I have always believed that actions speak louder than words, so people can tell me the sky is green all they like, but if I look up and see blue, that's all I need.

The sky isn't blue, you know. :D

I would wager that the majority of people in the world who genuine *hate* american and the americans fall into two categories:

1) People who have had loved ones killed by the american or israeli military.

Should we starting count the casualties caused by France(Cote d'Ivorie, Rwanda) or the UK(Kenya)? Or is the Middle East the only area in the world with the monopoly on grudges?

2) People who hate israel, and hate america for being israel's patron state.

Compared to the UK and France invading and occupying the Suez Canal in concert with Israel? Must be nice to have such a short memory...

Compared to Frace building Israel a nuclear reactor, thus giving the Israelis the necessary tools to start a nuclear weapons program??To bad the US didn't do it then you could whine about this!

So what about Eutruscas statement that the US NEVER kept any land? Or was that your statement?

first, i made no such statement, and i fully understand that the US has kept a great deal of the land it has taken. while i disagree with your side of the argument, whoever made that statement needs to do a little research.

second, what does this have to do with your gross over-generalizations?

No. But don't pretend it was a great noble thing which was only done to benefit the nations that had those bases planted on their soil.

are you high? stop putting words in my mouth. again, i made no such claim. when i said the US gov. serves the US, i was expressly stating that i don't believe it SHOULD be the priority of the US to protect other countries; the priority should be US citizens.

First of all, while most 1st world nations don't have the debt, erm I mean the super power status of the United States, I fail to see where "envy" would come into play given many first world nations, my country included have a much higher standard of living than that of the United States. So that's a non-starter.

I could go through point by point, but I'd just be accused of "hating" America which I don't. I'm not terribly fussy on some of the actions that the American government has carried out over a long period of time since the end of WWII. However, that is a personal opinion, no different than Americans who think their country is the greatest is also a personal opinion.

I can see how some people could envy a country that has a lower standard of living then his or her own country because his or her own country doesn't have the amount of influence as some other country. Not trying to start a flame war but you should realize that some people do happen to be rather vain and can't appreciate what they already have.

51% majority is not = representing *all* the people.


nor are squeezing out all but two main parties, in a voluntary voting system and expecting one or the other to be majority representative.

So those posting their hate on here are Israel-haters? Hmmm.I think it mostly true.
israel is mostly like USA, in most of the cases. therefore any reason that used somebody to attack israel could used to attack USA (either by USA direct actions, or by her support of israel).
we had so much similarities it hard to decide from where to start: both are radicaly capitalistic, fought the terror, don't sign kyoto agreement, and seen as militaristic and imperialistic by most of the world. both had opposite from the same groups in europe and the arab world and both support each other when all the world was against the other.
the only differnce is USA aren't hated by anti-semitics, and israel aren't hated by her coltural conquering of the world.

lmao - I would find some irony with America arguing with the rest of the world to the point where China or India etc. managed to obtain their own global power which had an equal strength as the US, then have said nation turn around and say 'We hate America'.


I wouldn't quite say that India has equal and opposite power compared to the US just yet.

China, on the land maybe, but we still pretty much control the sea.

IMAFO, you guys are dicks as soon as other countries start getting nuclear weapons you go and invade them puh you guys have heaps.

someone said that people post anti-american stuff on here because they had loved ones killed by the american military

etrusca replied that that would mean that the anti-american posters were relatives of dead terrorists and anti-israelis

you 'butted in' saying that you don't need to be related to someone to love them

this would mean that, at least logically following etrusca's statement (as i assumed you were) you feel that anti-american posters LOVED dead terrorists or anti-israelis.
I shutter to think at what kind of logic allows for such a conclusion. Oh wait.. it's called fallacy.

IMAFO, you guys are dicks as soon as other countries start getting nuclear weapons you go and invade them puh you guys have heaps.

Name the countries that we have invaded that had nukes

You've just answered your own question. The majority of Americans are ignorant and arrogant. The worst possible mix.

i've had it with the disgusting over-generalizations about americans. "THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE IGNORANT AND ARROGANT." how can you be serious? how many americans do you know? do you even live in america?
i have never said 'All Canadians are ignorant and arrogant," nor will i ever because until i have met THE MAJORITY i will be entirely unable to make an informed statement. by making this statement you have proved that it is you who are, indeed, ignorant.

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"



sigh....you disappoint me

don't listen to what he says about how other countries feel about america and even how americans feel about america. I'm both American and European ok so i know what i'm talking about.

I shutter to think at what kind of logic allows for such a conclusion. Oh wait.. it's called fallacy.

my conclusion was perfectly logical, as any reasonable person can see. if you don't want to support your comments after getting involved in a topic, save your warm and fuzzy revelations for another conversation.

IMAFO, you guys are dicks as soon as other countries start getting nuclear weapons you go and invade them puh you guys have heaps.

You demonstrate a profound ignorance of American international military policy.

We invade before they get the bomb. If we waited until "as soon" well then we'd be fighting people that had the friggin bomb!

North Korea learned that lesson well. "If you don't have weapons of mass destruction the US will get you, so get 'em while their hot."

Compared to the UK and France invading and occupying the Suez Canal in concert with Israel? Must be nice to have such a short memory...

Compared to Frace building Israel a nuclear reactor, thus giving the Israelis the necessary tools to start a nuclear weapons program??To bad the US didn't do it then you could whine about this!
this is past. then israel was much closer to europe and especially britain and france. before that we were closer to russia.
now most israelis look on those places as anti-semitic (not my personal view), and those places mostly see us as war nation.
maybe it is short memory, and maybe the situation changed. this is the reality.

Name the countries that we have invaded that had nukes

Well at the start of the invasion of Iraq you guys wanted to think they had any(which of course the didnt and wont unless its planted

my conclusion was perfectly logical, as any reasonable person can see. if you don't want to support your comments after getting involved in a topic, save your warm and fuzzy revelations for another conversation.
So if I point out the fallacy you'll stop being rude?

everyone has different reasons, but im pretty certain for the vast majority of people who arent too fond of the US at the minute, the reason is not jealousy or envy

its also incredibely self centred to say America...you really should have said the USA. the rest of America is pretty much fine

now your simply becoming fickle with terminology which is determined by a difference of cultures.. All of western cultures recognize the United STates as AMerica, and her citizens as Americans... it is only those south Americans which try to no avalie to propgate the idea that they are somehow incorporated with the term "American".

Its just like south americans trying to link North America with South America as one contient.. (a event which is unquie and recognized ONLY by south america.. strangly enough)

ANd of course.. people hating/or arguing against america will not recognize or (if they do recognize) admit Envy is the cause of their hatrid.. but nationalism is often the cause of strong feelings

Well at the start of the invasion of Iraq you guys wanted to think they had any(which of course the didnt and wont unless its planted

nobody ever claimed that iraq had NUCLEAR weapons before the invasion. WMD's, yes, but we aren't talking about those.

Should we starting count the casualties caused by France(Cote d'Ivorie, Rwanda) or the UK(Kenya)? Or is the Middle East the only area in the world with the monopoly on grudges?


Compared to the UK and France invading and occupying the Suez Canal in concert with Israel? Must be nice to have such a short memory...

Compared to Frace building Israel a nuclear reactor, thus giving the Israelis the necessary tools to start a nuclear weapons program??To bad the US didn't do it then you could whine about this!

You can not see it can you?
The point is not that other countries have done bad things in their time as well. These other countries have since changed their methods and are willing in most cases to apologise and say that with the wisdom of hidsight they know that they were wrong. It is not a matter of memory, it is amatter of present attitude.
The primary cause of anti-american feeling in the area of the world that I live in is the overbearing arrogance of believing that the american way is the way the world has to follow and will be forced to follow. The schoolyard bully, beating up on the smaller kids who don't support the same team as he does.
That is the image most around here have. That there have been other bullies in the past does not excuse the current one.
The "We are big tough men and you will do what we say fascist attitude." generates hatred from the people who genuinely value their freedom.

This leads to the second point. The hypocrisy. The world is to be free and democratic, so long as this suits the USA. Where full democracy returns a political leader that is contrary to the American neo-con agenda then the democratic principle has been conveniently forgotten too many times. The current target of this type of thing is Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Now politically I am opposed to him, but he was democratically elected (more so than Bush, as it is was direct presidential election, no electoral college stuff in the way). This means what. That if you support freedom and democracy you have to support Venezuela in its democracy. (Forget the threat to the oil supplies, or is that just me being cynical).
Bush spouts on about freedom and at the same time introduces the patriot act. The US requires fingerprinting of all foreigners entering their territory, fair enough, but don't complain when other territories require this of US citizens.
etc.

I have nothing against individual americans as people, I have a great deal against the bully boys and hypocrites.

So those posting their hate on here are either relatives of dead terrorists or Israel-haters? Hmmm.

This goes a long way to demonstrating distaste for intellectually bankrupt american culture as exemplified by you.

Given "America only kills terrorists who threaten us and Israel."
Given "Some people disagree with American policies."
Conclusion "Only terrorists disagree with American policies."

This sentiment is present to some degree in our political discourse.
Drug dealers - Narco terrorists.
Labor unions - Marko terrorists.
Politicians who vote against republican pet projects - Legislative terrorists.
Next month -- AARP Geriatro-terrorists.

You're not being logical. The american government is the democratically elected representation of the american people.
Actually, the US gov't doesn't really represent 100% of the population. We don't have a plural(I think that the word I'm looking for) system for elections, its a winner take all system. A candidate doesn't even to need over 50% to win an election, they just need more votes then everyone else. Then, add in the cost of campaigning and the fact that in house elections for the US congress, its nearly impossible to beat an incumbent. Finally, add in the fact that people pick the candidate the expresses more of their bliefs then the other candidate. So one can like most americans and hate our gov't, also we can get elected officials that try doing something that only like 5% of the voting population likes.

So if I point out the fallacy you'll stop being rude?

it's getting very frustrating to talk to you.

you replied to one of my posts by saying "That doesn't make sense." i replied to you trying to explain what i had meant. you replied to me with sarcasm. now you complain that i am rude. i give as good as i get.

and what fallacy? it's easy for you to say that, but you still haven't supported it.

Jurian States']I can see how some people could envy a country that has a lower standard of living then his or her own country because his or her own country doesn't have the amount of influence as some other country. Not trying to start a flame war but you should realize that some people do happen to be rather vain and can't appreciate what they already have.


Yeah, but those types of people tend to be power hungry politicians, to which I do not believe play Nationstates.. ;)

now your simply becoming fickle with terminology which is determined by a difference of cultures.. All of western cultures recognize the United STates as AMerica, and her citizens as Americans... it is only those south Americans which try to no avalie to propgate the idea that they are somehow incorporated with the term "American".

Its just like south americans trying to link North America with South America as one contient.. (a event which is unquie and recognized ONLY by south america.. strangly enough)

ANd of course.. people hating/or arguing against america will not recognize or (if they do recognize) admit Envy is the cause of their hatrid.. but nationalism is often the cause of strong feelings

South Americans want nothing to do with North America, and it's in fact an insult to call someone from south america, an "american". South American, yes..though.

The US doesn't own the word "America", or the Americas....

They denote regions, not nations in true meaning.


Envy is not applicable.... the US has little most countries want.. It's the US that insists that it's the cat's meow, nothing more or less.

51% majority is not = representing *all* the people.
So now we have to elect our representatives by acclimation? Sigh. :(

Its just like south americans trying to link North America with South America as one contient.. (a event which is unquie and recognized ONLY by south america.. strangly enough)


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Never in your wildest dreams would South America want to be part of North America. Canada, maybe. Mexico is part of Latin America. We do not want to be part of the USA. Look at the ALCA (FTAA) negotiations, and see how it was refused when the USA asked.

IMAFO, you guys are dicks as soon as other countries start getting nuclear weapons you go and invade them puh you guys have heaps.

The last thing Europe wants is to have other countires with nukes as well.. (seeing how they are more dependent on the middle east region then America is) ... the only difference is.. Europe lacks the means to consider all options.. and if diplomacy fails... their efforts fail (or maybe they stil think sanctions have some kind of effect even after Pakistan, and India)

So now we have to elect our representatives by acclimation? Sigh. :(
Just stating a fact.

"This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations."

I am a very patriotic American, but this is untrue we took:
Florida, Cuba, Phillipines, Puerto Rico, ect from Spain
California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas from Mexico
Hawaii from Hawaii
Islands and bases in Japan, Germany, Italy, ect
the Panama Canal from Colombia

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Cuba is its own nation.

The Philippines are an independent nation.

Puerto Rico can't decide whether it wants to continue as a protectorate or become a State.

The Panama Canal now belongs to Panama.

We no longer occupy any of the Japanese islands.

Germany doesn't have any islands and it won't be much longer before we have no bases in Germany.

Granted that Califonia, New Mexico, Texas and Hawaii were annexed, but that was part of the "manifest destiny" popular at the time.

Jurian States']Actually, the US gov't doesn't really represent 100% of the population. We don't have a plural(I think that the word I'm looking for) system for elections, its a winner take all system. A candidate doesn't even to need over 50% to win an election, they just need more votes then everyone else. Then, add in the cost of campaigning and the fact that in house elections for the US congress, its nearly impossible to beat an incumbent. Finally, add in the fact that people pick the candidate the expresses more of their bliefs then the other candidate. So one can like most americans and hate our gov't, also we can get elected officials that try doing something that only like 5% of the voting population likes.

ACTUALLY.. it is not nearly impossible to beat an incumbent.. while incumbents do have an advantage.. only 7 presidents have been elected to two terms.. And it is my opnion that Leadership should not be dictated by popularity polls.. or aproval ratings... leadership is meant to be set by a LEADER... in that one person with all the knowledge makes decisions in the best interest of our nation. It is hard to phatum how the average uninformed person not having nearly any of the information can make a more informed decision then a government offical

Germany doesn't have any islands
So what are Helgoland, Rügen or Peenemünde then?
and it won't be much longer before we have no bases in Germany.

I'd wish that wasn't a lie.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Never in your wildest dreams would South America want to be part of North America. Canada, maybe. Mexico is part of Latin America. We do not want to be part of the USA. Look at the ALCA (FTAA) negotiations, and see how it was refused when the USA asked.

Uh, actually, Canada, United States and Mexico are all North America with Canada being the largest land mass. (In North America) Just FYI.. ;)

Uh, actually, Canada, United States and Mexico are all North America with Canada being the largest land mass. (In North America) Just FYI.. ;)
Down here in the South we know this. Hence the expression of a willingness to maybe join up with Canada being mentioned when Invidentia suggested that we wanted to unite with North America. What would stop us is that little bit of the New World between yourselves and Mexico. The politicians there seem to think they can run the world.

I don't know how to put this politely, but you've been had.
What you posted is known in the urban legend community as a glurge (http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp).

What's even more sad is that the person who originally said that was a Soviet general lamenting a failed military campaign: "We gained 57,000 km² [22,000 square miles] of territory. Just enough to bury our dead."
(Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War))

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/powell.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/powell.asp

Addressed this already. Still doesn't change the delicious irony (that Russian quotation is genuine).

you see, thats something

some people dislike the american attitude that anyone who dislikes them must just be jealous

which completely misses the point

The point which you're unwilling to make. You'll just sit back and infer Americans are bad like the whiner you are. How about this for a suggestion: Mind your own business. We'll deal with the terrorists. We'll deal with Iraq and Afghanistan. We'll be the leader of NATO. We'll be the biggest donor of money and support to the world... Oh wait, we already do those things without all of you Monday-morning Quarterbacks whining all the time. But, you wouldn't know about QB's, because you think soccer is soooooooo superior. I think the arrogant arses are the America-bashers, who don't have any more control, and look down their collective nose at America. Go boohoo somewhere else. America is tired of hearing you whine. You can start acting like our superiors when you've done something MORE for the world.

For the record, Hawaii, California and Texas were all independant states that joined the US of their own volition.

Also, the vast majority of the "Ihate/love America" crowd are just bandwagon jumpers. Seriously, read these posts. Most people are just spouting off things they heard thrid hand that have no basis in fact. Humans beings like to join groups.

Being the patriotic American I am, I do think we are the best, but I know thats because I live here and that shapes my personal beliefs and philosophies. I think most of the people spouting off their dislikes about American society and culture are either misinformed or don't really see our line of thinking.

I think people who bitch about "cultural imperialism" and spout off about our movie industry (which is actually quite the international affair) and our fast food and our television need to go outside and do something. Unless American troops have burnt down your local library and/or food production indistry, you only have yourselves to blame.

So those posting their hate on here are either relatives of dead terrorists or Israel-haters? Hmmm.

I wonder if you might give five examples of people who hate the united states on this forum.

Now, what was it that one american sergeant said after they had taken over an airfield in northern Afghanistan...
Oh yeah, something like this: "Now we've landed and taken over a piece of Afghanistan."...
And don't start telling me he's the only officer acting like that.
And no, I'm no from any of those countries you mentioned. I'm finnish and our country's always been too small to become a superpower (not becouse of the lack of trying...)

And the Finnish have done what for the world? Besides breed some good looking women? That Sergeant was an excited warrior who landed in a country which supported the men who killed innocent women and children. You see, unlike the Finnish, we actually don't stand by when our people are murdered. I suppose the Finnish people wouldn't want to kick some ass, if, let's say, over 3,000 of your innocents were slaughtered.

I wonder if you might give five examples of people who hate the united states on this forum.

Case in point, the "anti-america" crowd are tripping over themselves. They don't even know who each other are.

I wonder if you might give five examples of people who hate the united states on this forum.
Name names and get banned? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

And the Finnish have done what for the world? Besides breed some good looking women? That Sergeant was an excited warrior who landed in a country which supported the men who killed innocent women and children. You see, unlike the Finnish, we actually don't stand by when our people are murdered. I suppose the Finnish people wouldn't want to kick some ass, if, let's say, over 3,000 of your innocents were slaughtered.

While I sympathise with all those who lost relatives, friends and loved ones in the world trade towers, I have difficulty with this attitude of "we do something about it" with regard to terrorism. Would you care to repeat that to the thousands of relatives of the victims of the IRA. Could you realy stand there and say that the USA does something to prevent terrorism to those who lost loved ones due to US based funding for a terrorist organisation. There are people in the world who have reason to hate the US hypocrisy over terrorism. Remember that.

i dont dislike all Americans, but heres a few reasons

you spent 40 years propping up dictatorships and helping terrorists.

the vast majority of the IRAs funding comes from the US, and the IRA has done its best to destroy the place where i live

America prances round the world like it knows best, like someone has given them the position of the world police, being entirely hypocritical in its foreign affairs, and telling other countries what to do

that enough?

You people are amazing. Who thinks they know best? You do. America has done many thousands of great things, that have nothing to do with propping up dictatorships. But you don't want to talk about that. America doesn't prance, but two-bit jerks like you want to believe that. You take shots at America and Americans all day, passively like a coward, and when Americans, who call it like it is, bluntly I might add, tell you there's a place for you to shove it, you whine and cry about how Americans are arrogant, etc., etc.

You people are amazing. Who thinks they know best? You do. America has done many thousands of great things, that have nothing to do with propping up dictatorships. But you don't want to talk about that.

I would be very happy to talk about these, if I knew what they were. I don't. So could you please offer examples or evidence rather than rhetoric. This would let us be more positive.

Watch as certain patriotic gasbags sit on their faked laurels and ridicule the rest of the world for speaking the truths as the rest of the world live them.

I'm an anti american, american..... and I'll tell you one thing. The only thing valuable I ever recieved from the US, is a good command of the english language, however watered down... and a US passport.

The rest of it is just crap to me. I'll take the small out of the way paradises far removed from the arrogance and unethical actions of the US government and private enterprise.

But that's become increasingly harder and harder to do as the years progress. America is like a virus not content until it infects every nook and cranny of this unfortunate earth it rests upon.

Having said that. I don't have a problem with american citizens... as long as they don't mouth off about shit or act like peacocks.

Name names and get banned? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:


You're aware how to use the quote function arent you?

I think 1 & 4 certainly are good points. But they only contribute to a greater tributary as it flows into the river of Hate.

But I know I personally dislike 'America' because of it's undermining behaviour towards the history of other nations. On the forums, there is a degree of a feeling among Americans that 'anything before America is irrelevant unless it can be used negatively against the world'. Then of course, there are those who are very proud in their heritage... TOO proud.

Of course, America has slated most other countries. And then, 'in comparison', what have they done? They've introduced fast food, which has made people fat. They've introduced shows that make TV a lifestyle, making people lazy. They've made films in recent years that are so dull that a good film is few and far between. They've started to praise the rising but still ELDCs in the world instead of praising those countries which have already developed (especially France and Germany) for not doing what the US wants to do. :D It's not envy. I wouldn't say it was an authority figure in the sense I am talking about. I think more of a peer, which has suddenly turned selfish and contradictory.

A lot of people would deny that America has an 'empire' too. While Americans talk about how America is a super power. A lot of Americans do claim that America has taken over countries with their 'culture'. Then act as if the world owe them something. =P

What? You could be the dumbest arrogant person on Earth. America doesn't make the world fat and lazy. You, eating the junk food and watching TV on your fat arse, make yourself fat, lazy (and obviously dumb as well). All you can do is moan about movies? Oh shut up you idiot.

People here hate america becouse you are ruling the world and you are srewing up, your time is over US basterds death to you :sniper:

You people are amazing. Who thinks they know best? You do. America has done many thousands of great things, that have nothing to do with propping up dictatorships. But you don't want to talk about that. America doesn't prance, but two-bit jerks like you want to believe that. You take shots at America and Americans all day, passively like a coward, and when Americans, who call it like it is, bluntly I might add, tell you there's a place for you to shove it, you whine and cry about how Americans are arrogant, etc., etc.


care to step out of your nation? I'll see you on smokers corner.

The "proof", as it were, is in the Pudding...

Does anyone believe that Lybia would have ended their WMD Program had it not been for the War in Iraq?

Does anyone believe that there would have been Elections in either Afghanistan or Iraq had the U.S. not intervened?

Does anyone think, for one moment, that Palestinians would be asking Syria to LEAVE so they can hold their own Elections if there had not been an Iraq War?

Does anyone think that Saudi Arabia would have had even the most symbolic of Democratic votes recently if it had not been for the Iraq War?

And yet all we were hearing for the entire time that we have been there is how bad we are making things Worldwide!

I'm sorry but, the events that I have cited versus what they are saying just don't seem to coincide, do they? They were all saying that these Elections weren’t going to “change” anything in the Region, and yet we are SEEING all kinds of change, are we not? Just how long do these others get to be wrong before they realize that THEY themselves have been part of the problem for a very long time now?

So while "they" will continue to ESPOUSE the many falsehoods they have been espousing, we will continue to DO what is Right...

Regards,
Gaar

YES!

So, negotiating the peace accords and cross training with the SAS does nothing to prevent IRA terrorist attacks? You're right. You'll have a tomohawk missile in your backyard by tomorrow night. Happy?

What? You could be the dumbest arrogant person on Earth. America doesn't make the world fat and lazy. You, eating the junk food and watching TV on your fat arse, make yourself fat, lazy (and obviously dumb as well). All you can do is moan about movies? Oh shut up you idiot.

The "culture" which the US tries desperately to export consists of laziness and the overconsumption of unhealthy food.

What? You could be the dumbest arrogant person on Earth. America doesn't make the world fat and lazy. You, eating the junk food and watching TV on your fat arse, make yourself fat, lazy (and obviously dumb as well). All you can do is moan about movies? Oh shut up you idiot.

Evidence in point. Insult and arrogance, the American way. What is not to hate about it?

So, negotiating the peace accords and cross training with the SAS does nothing to prevent IRA terrorist attacks? You're right. You'll have a tomohawk missile in your backyard by tomorrow night. Happy?

Cutting off their funding would have been a damn sight more effective. Why was it not done?

everyone has different reasons, but im pretty certain for the vast majority of people who arent too fond of the US at the minute, the reason is not jealousy or envy

its also incredibely self centred to say America...you really should have said the USA. the rest of America is pretty much fine

Actually, many parts of the rest of America aren't fine. Besides, the majority of people around the world refer to the USA as "America". There is envy and SPITE. There is an inferiority complex (I don't know why since many countries have a lot to offer). What amazes me though, is if it isn't envy, why are you all so fixated on what America does? Do you love the Afghanis so much that you want to know everything about the US vs Afghanistan conflict? Nope, you just don't have enough to do in your own country. Americans are just focused on America. You ought to try to focus on your own damn countries, even though there obviously isn't much on which to focus.

Because our government doesn't fun the IRA.

Actually, many parts of the rest of America aren't fine. Besides, the majority of people around the world refer to the USA as "America". There is envy and SPITE. There is an inferiority complex (I don't know why since many countries have a lot to offer). What amazes me though, is if it isn't envy, why are you all so fixated on what America does? Do you love the Afghanis so much that you want to know everything about the US vs Afghanistan conflict? Nope, you just don't have enough to do in your own country. Americans are just focused on America. You ought to try to focus on your own damn countries, even though there obviously isn't much on which to focus.

Ya, don't bitch about us bombing places until we get around to bombing you personally. :rolleyes:

Evidence in point. Insult and arrogance, the American way. What is not to hate about it?


You are right, because the comment he was responding to certainly was an even better example of insult and arrogance, with a healthy dose of ignorance.

And now for a little comic relief in this most serious of threads :eek: ....


a side trip to the Twilight Zone or perhaps the Wizard of Oz (http://www.moviewavs.com/0056218974/MP3S/Movies/Good_Morning_Vietnam/wrongspeed.mp3) is in order?

:D

Actually, many parts of the rest of America aren't fine. Besides, the majority of people around the world refer to the USA as "America". There is envy and SPITE. There is an inferiority complex (I don't know why since many countries have a lot to offer). What amazes me though, is if it isn't envy, why are you all so fixated on what America does? Do you love the Afghanis so much that you want to know everything about the US vs Afghanistan conflict? Nope, you just don't have enough to do in your own country. Americans are just focused on America. You ought to try to focus on your own damn countries, even though there obviously isn't much on which to focus.


Have you traveled much?

I have, and in my experience found not a shred of evidence that people in any developed nation envy the US or wish to spite the US.

Most express sympathy that I have to go back to the place. You dont seem to grasp the idea that most people in the developed world have good reason to consider themselves the moral, intellectual and cultural superiors of the US and the majority of its people.

It is an old world, america acts its age and is regarded accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorlania
What? You could be the dumbest arrogant person on Earth. America doesn't make the world fat and lazy. You, eating the junk food and watching TV on your fat arse, make yourself fat, lazy (and obviously dumb as well). All you can do is moan about movies? Oh shut up you idiot.



Evidence in point. Insult and arrogance, the American way. What is not to hate about it?

"Evidence in point"? Not hardly. Make a point besides being another whiner in the crowd. When someone claims his country is fat and lazy, or anyone in the world is fat and lazy, because of America, they're an idiot. It's truth, not arrogance. Besides, if I were arrogant, I would say, "I'm so much smarter." But you seem to be the type to point fingers and run. You probably couldn't type more than one sentence anyway. But I invite you to do so. Make a point, please. Go beyond an elementary school version of finger pointing and make an intelligent, articulate point. I invite you to be more than passively arrogant, and make a point.

You dont seem to grasp the idea that most people in the developed world have good reason to consider themselves the moral, intellectual and cultural superiors of the US and the majority of its people.

It is an old world, america acts its age and is regarded accordingly.

What was tht about arrogance?

For the record, Hawaii, California and Texas were all independant states that joined the US of their own volition...

It's amazing what invasion and occupation will do for a country's volition. If we put several million people on airbusses and shipped them to Iraq, then declared them citizens and let them vote American politicians into office who would then declare Iraq the 51'st state, would that count as Iraq joining us of their own volition?

... Unless American troops have burnt down your local library and/or food production indistry, you only have yourselves to blame.

Actually, that's precisly what America does fairly often. Don't you know where the phrase Bannana Republic comes from? America invading south american countries and installing right wing dictatorships who sell land to U.S. fruit companies for a song.

They only thing that they're at fault for is trying to use their own land to grow their own food. Then we show up and tell them to enter the 20'th century and sell us food for less money than they need to buy the food they could have grown for nothing.

Have you traveled much?

I have, and in my experience found not a shred of evidence that people in any developed nation envy the US or wish to spite the US.

Most express sympathy that I have to go back to the place. You dont seem to grasp the idea that most people in the developed world have good reason to consider themselves the moral, intellectual and cultural superiors of the US and the majority of its people.

It is an old world, america acts its age and is regarded accordingly.

I don't seem to realize? You don't have to come back to the USA. None of your third world friends, who according to your ridiculous internet claims, think the USA is such an unfortunate place to be, have to come here either. Why are you in the USA? Why does the USA have the largest amount of requests for visas in the world? Why do your third world friends beg for and take the money from the US government? You're just feeling uppity in the internet chat. Most of the people I've met, across Asia and Europe, wouldn't feel unfortunate to be in America. You're talking out your arse. Nice try though hero.

What was tht about arrogance?

EXACTLY.

You people are amazing. Who thinks they know best? You do. America has done many thousands of great things, that have nothing to do with propping up dictatorships. But you don't want to talk about that. America doesn't prance, but two-bit jerks like you want to believe that. You take shots at America and Americans all day, passively like a coward, and when Americans, who call it like it is, bluntly I might add, tell you there's a place for you to shove it, you whine and cry about how Americans are arrogant, etc., etc.

Can you really say this? I bet you that even Americans bash other countries and torment them because they're not as big of a 'powerhouse' as you are. I bet you that if say China was the biggest powerhouse like the USA is then everyone would be bashing them instead. I'm not American and frankly I dislike them but I don't hate them. They may do wrong things but that's the way they're brought up and that's the way they're led. If you come to Canada(that's where i live) you'll find tons of people that both hate and like the USA. My Social Studies teacher likes the USA but hates Bush, and I'm sure many people here do too but just think back when it was WWII I bet you that everyone would bashing Germany right now just because they were causing wars, and guess what, the USA is causing wars right now too. There wouldn't have been an Iraq War if Suddam Husein would have been killed in the Persian Gulf War.

Saying this its true that if the USA hadn't stepped up and attacked Iraq they probably would have attacked with they're supposed 'weapons of mass destruction' , which by the way were never found now were they?

Ya, don't bitch about us bombing places until we get around to bombing you personally.

I'm sure that was sarcasm and you were just kidding, or at least I hope you were. If the USA bombed say Europe or Canada or something they'd be swarmed by so many countries it wouldn't even be funny. Just think how many people want to get their hands on the USA, how many countries still hold grudges on them. The USA has been making more enemies than allies and that's the truth.

You are right, because the comment he was responding to certainly was an even better example of insult and arrogance, with a healthy dose of ignorance.

The post he was replying to actually had some content. It ay be that he disagreed with the content, in which case a normal reasonable response would have been to say so and say why. No he could not do that, he resorted to an unnecessary series of ad hominem attacks. That is what I was criticising.

The post he responded to accused the USA of promoting a sedentary and unhealthy life style. This is done through the mass media that is USA dominated and the fast food chains. There are valid counter arguments. Such as no one is made to watch US films or TV. No one is force fed McDonalds or Hershy bars. But instead of this he attacked the person not the argument.

Arrogance and ignorance combined to provide unnecessary insult. This is too typical of those that defend the USA here. I am not saying it applies to all of the pro US people, but it is the image that the US has.

You defend him, without realising just how out of line his attack was. You could defend the imagge of the USA by arguing as I have above, but not by defending an ignorant bully.

Ya, don't bitch about us bombing places until we get around to bombing you personally. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because we're bombing everyone and the agenda is to get to your house of whining tomorrow... :rolleyes:

Because our government doesn't fun the IRA.

Ignoring the rather inapropriate typo - The US government and its intelligence agencies knew, know and have always known who is responsible for funding the IRA in the USA. Nothing whatsoever was done to hinder their activities. It was condoned by the US government.

I don't seem to realize? You don't have to come back to the USA. None of your third world friends, who according to your ridiculous internet claims, think the USA is such an unfortunate place to be, have to come here either. Why are you in the USA? Why does the USA have the largest amount of requests for visas in the world? Why do your third world friends beg for and take the money from the US government? You're just feeling uppity in the internet chat. Most of the people I've met, across Asia and Europe, wouldn't feel unfortunate to be in America. You're talking out your arse. Nice try though hero.

You might look up the distinction between "developed" and "developing" and which one is synonymous with "third world."

Expatriation takes time and money ma cherie. But the process has begun :)

No, the comment he was responding to was a typical "fat, lazy American" comment. It had no real substance, nothing to back it up.

And the "no one is forcing you to eat it" argument is the best response and very true, but just gets tossed away by those who aren't into real arguments. Look how many times its been repeated in this thread alone.

The post he was replying to actually had some content. It ay be that he disagreed with the content, in which case a normal reasonable response would have been to say so and say why. No he could not do that, he resorted to an unnecessary series of ad hominem attacks. That is what I was criticising.

The post he responded to accused the USA of promoting a sedentary and unhealthy life style. This is done through the mass media that is USA dominated and the fast food chains. There are valid counter arguments. Such as no one is made to watch US films or TV. No one is force fed McDonalds or Hershy bars. But instead of this he attacked the person not the argument.

Arrogance and ignorance combined to provide unnecessary insult. This is too typical of those that defend the USA here. I am not saying it applies to all of the pro US people, but it is the image that the US has.

You defend him, without realising just how out of line his attack was. You could defend the imagge of the USA by arguing as I have above, but not by defending an ignorant bully.


You're a bandwagon jumper Alien. You're passive agressive, and when someone confronts you directly, you finally decide to make a point. I'm tired of people like you. Oh, you're holier than the world in an internet message room, but when someone directy criticizes your post, or responds less than perfectly to it, you whine.

You might look up the distinction between "developed" and "developing" and which one is synonymous with "third world."

Expatriation takes time and money ma cherie. But the process has begun :)

Well, I'll be happy to see you go. I'm in the process of teaching English to quite a few residents who want to become citizens, and they'll be happy to take your place. :rolleyes:

no one is forcing you to eat it

They may not be forced to eat it but just think how many fast food commercials and advertisements you see in one day. There are tons of them and I don't see any goverenment of ANY country trying to do something about it. The USA may have come up with fast food but it is now a world-wide issue that almost every country has to deal with. I personally find fast food disgusting but in the USA there are people that eat it 3 times a day seven days a week. The USA is the most obese country in the world but the American government is doing almost nothing to stop it.

It's amazing what invasion and occupation will do for a country's volition. If we put several million people on airbusses and shipped them to Iraq, then declared them citizens and let them vote American politicians into office who would then declare Iraq the 51'st state, would that count as Iraq joining us of their own volition?


Airbus? Are you freaking kidding me? Do you honestly think that the United States is going to buy any amount of planes from the French? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

HEY I'M SARCASMING GUYS

Edit: Frankly if the American government starts telling me what I can and cannot eat I'm going to go start my own damn country. To hell with that.

Well, I'll be happy to see you go. I'm in the process of teaching English to quite a few residents who want to become citizens, and they'll be happy to take your place. :rolleyes:
:p if this thread was real life, there would have been a brawl by now. i love this.

Because our government doesn't fun the IRA.
So you can't stop it!?

Hey al-qaeda you can get support from americans the government stop you! :rolleyes:

So you can't stop it!?

Hey al-qaeda you can get support from americans the government stop you! :rolleyes:

i think i speak for everyone when i say

"Huh?" :confused:

The "culture" which the US tries desperately to export consists of laziness and the overconsumption of unhealthy food.

The USA does NOT try to export that culture. McDonald's is invading your country, not the USA. And if McD's can whoop the will of your people... well, the USA is out of your league. Stop your moaning. The original claim of the USA exporting that culture was ridiculous, just as much as your current moaning and whining and only slightly veiled hatred for the USA is. Eat the Big Mac, don't eat the Big Mac. Blame your local business man, or blame the fat kid who eats it. If your country can't control itself, then that's a problem with you and your people, not a problem with the USA exporting a "grease culture". The USA is handling its fat problem... Maybe your country will deal with its arrognance problem.

The deal is this, the USA and its people are blunt and call it like it is. All of these "older" countries are passive-aggressive. We'll tell you to your face what you say in chat rooms and behind our backs. You think that makes us arrogant. Nope. It makes us real.

You see, in the rest of the free world we have somthing called "Free Speech". We Criticize whomever we want.


And criticizing America is not anti-american. It is Anti-American not to criticize.

Do any of you think for even a second that if you're country was the foremost superpower in the world that you all would act any differently? If you do, you are fooling yourself very much, indeed. Doesn't mean you can't call us on stuff, by all means, do so. However, quit being so arrogant and antagonistic about it. If you do this, I will truly thank you.

Sincerely,

Bryan

The USA is handling its fat problem... Maybe your country will deal with its arrognance problem.



Eating its problem away is it?

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

...Oh.

:p if this thread was real life, there would have been a brawl by now. i love this.

Yeah, no kidding. But it's fun. :cool:

The USA does NOT try to export that culture. McDonald's is invading your country, not the USA. And if McD's can whoop the will of your people... well, the USA is out of your league. Stop your moaning. The original claim of the USA exporting that culture was ridiculous, just as much as your current moaning and whining and only slightly veiled hatred for the USA is. Eat the Big Mac, don't eat the Big Mac. Blame your local business man, or blame the fat kid who eats it. If your country can't control itself, then that's a problem with you and your people, not a problem with the USA exporting a "grease culture". The USA is handling its fat problem... Maybe your country will deal with its arrognance problem.

The deal is this, the USA and its people are blunt and call it like it is. All of these "older" countries are passive-aggressive. We'll tell you to your face what you say in chat rooms and behind our backs. You think that makes us arrogant. Nope. It makes us real.

well said.

"Evidence in point"? Not hardly. Make a point besides being another whiner in the crowd. When someone claims his country is fat and lazy, or anyone in the world is fat and lazy, because of America, they're an idiot. It's truth, not arrogance. Besides, if I were arrogant, I would say, "I'm so much smarter." But you seem to be the type to point fingers and run. You probably couldn't type more than one sentence anyway. But I invite you to do so. Make a point, please. Go beyond an elementary school version of finger pointing and make an intelligent, articulate point. I invite you to be more than passively arrogant, and make a point.

Well let me see now:
This post in this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363263&postcount=119) you might have seen if you read the thread.

or

this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363921&postcount=167) which came later (cut and run I think not) and suggests an aproach that you might have taken, but you chose to insult instead.

OK. Or are you going to insult me further as you actually don't have any arguments or evidence to support you. I have asked you for some here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363760&postcount=144) but you have not seen fit to respond to this request.

(It would damn well help if jolt didn't keep staling on me.)

Eating its problem away is it?

Maybe you'd like to address the other points in my post. But wait, that would probably be too hard for you, looking at the truth I mean. You're lots of laughs. :D

There are many specific reasons people use to justify their hatred of USians. But, at its core it is simply the historical norm. All the most powerful nations are hatred by many people. It has always been so.
When Britain was the most powerful empire they were characterized as ignorant people who were arrogant and bullying. When they gave up their empire, this criticism faded away. When a new superpower rises it will find itself in the same position we USians find ourselves in today.
I used to worry about this hatred of my country and I still disagree with it. However, I don't care about it or worry about it anymore. We are currently in the winning position historically and all the anti-US ranting will do very little to hinder the US. Hate us all ya want folks, it really doesn't matter.
I do not include reasoned, well thought arguements with anti-US ranting, I have read some good arguements on these boards. Only things like, "Americans are all ignorant." or "USians like to attack countries and murder puppies for breakfast." etc. etc.

speaking of breakfast. . .where did I put that puppy. . .?

Do any of you think for even a second that if you're country was the foremost superpower in the world that you all would act any differently? If you do, you are fooling yourself very much, indeed. Doesn't mean you can't call us on stuff, by all means, do so. However, quit being so arrogant and antagonistic about it. If you do this, I will truly thank you.

Sincerely,

Bryan

agreed. at least some people on this thread can back up their opinions.

The deal is this, the USA and its people are blunt and call it like it is. All of these "older" countries are passive-aggressive. We'll tell you to your face what you say in chat rooms and behind our backs. You think that makes us arrogant. Nope. It makes us real.

I'm sorry to say but that must be the lamest thing anyone has said yet. I don't see any American's coming into other countries and bashing them. Don't try to say that the USA is any different from any other developed country 'cause it isn't.

Do any of you think for even a second that if you're country was the foremost superpower in the world that you all would act any differently

I agree and as I said before people would be bashing that country instead.

They may not be forced to eat it but just think how many fast food commercials and advertisements you see in one day. There are tons of them and I don't see any goverenment of ANY country trying to do something about it

Its called free market. You know you can change the channel or, heaven forbid, turn off the television. I also have this wonderful collection of items called books. Its like television with words instead of pictures, and there aren't any commercials.

. The USA may have come up with fast food but it is now a world-wide issue that almost every country has to deal with. I personally find fast food disgusting but in the USA there are people that eat it 3 times a day seven days a week.

I don't touch the crap either, but thats part of free will. People will do what they want. Freedom has its ugly side.

And you know what, fast food itself isn't inherintly evil. Its not that healthy, but overcomsumption of anything is bad for you.

The USA is the most obese country in the world but the American government is doing almost nothing to stop it.

What should they do? Schools already teach nutrition. But, if you can't figure it out, the government can't do much more to help.

You're a bandwagon jumper Alien. You're passive agressive, and when someone confronts you directly, you finally decide to make a point. I'm tired of people like you. Oh, you're holier than the world in an internet message room, but when someone directy criticizes your post, or responds less than perfectly to it, you whine.

As I thought, you show your true colours (with a u) Any body who faces your diatribe is simply subjected to unjustified flamming and lies. I have not "whined" anywhere. I have simply suggested that your manners are lacking. You went right ahead and proved it.

Well let me see now:
This post in this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363263&postcount=119) you might have seen if you read the thread.

or

this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363921&postcount=167) which came later (cut and run I think not) and suggests an aproach that you might have taken, but you chose to insult instead.

OK. Or are you going to insult me further as you actually don't have any arguments or evidence to support you. I have asked you for some here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8363760&postcount=144) but you have not seen fit to respond to this request.

(It would damn well help if jolt didn't keep staling on me.)

Oh angry little alien, instead of cutting and pasting and whining, why don't you tell us about why you didn't like that I responded negatively to the claim that the USA is exporting a lazy culture. You need to meet the real world, in which people disagree, WITH PASSION, sometimes. I know your fine sensibilities might not be able to handle it, but if I passionately disagree, and someone is being an idiot, then I am going to say it. Type instead of cutting and pasting.

There are only two things I don' t like:
people who are discrimanting against certain countries and the Dutch.

people who are discrimanting against certain countries and the Dutch.

....That's not funny

As I thought, you show your true colours (with a u) Any body who faces your diatribe is simply subjected to unjustified flamming and lies. I have not "whined" anywhere. I have simply suggested that your manners are lacking. You went right ahead and proved it.

Not "just as you thought". I can see you're setting up running away. Make a point. Instead of doing what you're claiming I am.

i think i speak for everyone when i say

"Huh?" :confused:
American people funded the IRA this is a terrorist group, the US government can stop it but doesn't.

....That's not funny
Not an Austin Powers fan?

Is a seosavist like a theosophist?

*CanuckHeaven* was going to simply roast some marshmallows, but considering the intensity of the flames, has decided that a Nation States pig roast is in order!! :)

http://www.mrfa.org/images/Ayres2.jpg

Bon appetite!!

Do any of you think for even a second that if you're country was the foremost superpower in the world that you all would act any differently? If you do, you are fooling yourself very much, indeed. Doesn't mean you can't call us on stuff, by all means, do so. However, quit being so arrogant and antagonistic about it. If you do this, I will truly thank you.

Sincerely,

Bryan

Well, since I'm an american citizen and I still criticize american policy I guess that does mean that if my country was the reigning superpower I'd still be critical.

For a country that lacks the information on how their policies affect the rest of the world or excludes the citizenry from the political process the damage caused by that country really can't be held against its population.

We have that information at our disposal however and instead we, as a people, choose to bury it and pretend it doesn't work that way. There's a government body in Texas whose job it is to choose the books that every school in the biggest state of the union will use.

There's a woman on that board who's married to an oil tycoon and she refuses to allow any sciencebook to point out how much pollution is pumped into the atmosphere because of oil usage. In her words "why are the oil companies always made out to be the bad guys."

We are turning ignorance into one of our core values. Just take a look at the "pro-american" argument the self proclaimed conservatives have been presenting. "we never siezed territory in any military exercise." For all I know their schools may have actually taught them that, but even if they know it's untrue, they see it as the patriotic thing to believe. Knowing the truth is now unpatriotic.

That is why we deserve more criticism than the British, French or Pre-republic German empires.

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

Correct. However, I must add the US does everything it can to make itself a good target. Example: a president that appears to be an idiot. He probably isn't, but most of the people in e.g. European countries are convinced he is. Bad PR. And his Bushisms don't help.

"Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.
Very few people actually object to that. Quite a lot object to the beating up of the wrong guy. Even though that guy is a jerk.

3. Envy.

No doubt true. However:

Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

Depends how the products were made. Take things like environmental issues, exploitation and childlabour into account please. And what the impact of said products is. Destroying a culture is not good[tm].

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

Democracy is an inferior form of government in my opinion, as well as that of many others. Like the founding fathers. Which is why the USA isn't one.
A government based on democratic principles however seems nice at first sight. But assuming that since it it good for you it will also be good for a comletely different culture with different social values and beliefs is incredibly shortsighted. It may even worsen the situation. Especially if you force it down peoples throat.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world.

Yes. And that is scary since it seems to be coming complete with the belief that the American way is the only way - and that everything else is inferior.

Not an Austin Powers fan?

i got it :p

American people funded the IRA this is a terrorist group, the US government can stop it but doesn't.

A few USians supported the IRA, a few of them were arrested but most were not. The US governemnt never supported the IRA. I am sure they can stop it just like they can stop the flow of drugs or collect all the guns in the US. Oh wait, it is pretty much impossible to stop anything.

Why do think I said Americans are going into other countries and bashing them? I think you're interpretation may be the lamest one yet. Every developed country is different than every other developed country. What I have seen from a variety of perspectives/countries, is that the USA is more blunt culturally. Sexually repressed, but loud and clear about how we feel.




I'm sorry to say but that must be the lamest thing anyone has said yet. I don't see any American's coming into other countries and bashing them. Don't try to say that the USA is any different from any other developed country 'cause it isn't.



I agree and as I said before people would be bashing that country instead.

Well, since I'm an american citizen and I still criticize american policy I guess that does mean that if my country was the reigning superpower I'd still be critical.

For a country that lacks the information on how their policies affect the rest of the world or excludes the citizenry from the political process the damage caused by that country really can't be held against its population.

We have that information at our disposal however and instead we, as a people, choose to bury it and pretend it doesn't work that way. There's a government body in Texas whose job it is to choose the books that every school in the biggest state of the union will use.

There's a woman on that board who's married to an oil tycoon and she refuses to allow any sciencebook to point out how much pollution is pumped into the atmosphere because of oil usage. In her words "why are the oil companies always made out to be the bad guys."

We are turning ignorance into one of our core values. Just take a look at the "pro-american" argument the self proclaimed conservatives have been presenting. "we never siezed territory in any military exercise." For all I know their schools may have actually taught them that, but even if they know it's untrue, they see it as the patriotic thing to believe. Knowing the truth is now unpatriotic.

That is why we deserve more criticism than the British, French or Pre-republic German empires.

If you'll read closely, I did advocate criticsm of America. i just aked people not to be blowhards about it.

Oh angry little alien, instead of cutting and pasting and whining, why don't you tell us about why you didn't like that I responded negatively to the claim that the USA is exporting a lazy culture. You need to meet the real world, in which people disagree, WITH PASSION, sometimes. I know your fine sensibilities might not be able to handle it, but if I passionately disagree, and someone is being an idiot, then I am going to say it. Type instead of cutting and pasting.

Passion does not exclude intelligence. Why should I retype everything just to save you clicking on a link.
I did say why I did not like your reply. Go back and read and think.

You then accuse me of posting single sentences, when I show that that is not my style what do I get? A retraction, an apology? No, just a further insult.

The pure arrogance to think that your way is the only way, that it is the best way that no one can ever be allowed to suggest that it is deficent in some way, is what creates the hatred of the USA.

You are being an excellent example of it. Thank you.

[QUOTE=Aggassari]I'm sorry to say but that must be the lamest thing anyone has said yet. I don't see any American's coming into other countries and bashing them. Don't try to say that the USA is any different from any other developed country 'cause it isn't.

Why do you think I said Americans are going into other countries and bashing them? I think you're interpretation may be the lamest one yet. Every developed country is different than every other developed country. What I have seen from a variety of perspectives/countries, is that the USA is more blunt culturally. Sexually repressed, but loud and clear about how we feel.

Two-faced policies don't do any favours for the USA.

Such as
1 - refusing to condemn israel for any of the atrocities it has committed, while condemning the Palestinians
2 - criticising other countries human rights while torturing people held without trial in guantanamo
3 - looking to develop new kinds of nuclear weapons while telling Iran they cannot develop any
4 - propping up economically favourable dictators while attacking those who aren't valuable trade partners


Oh, and Libya gave up their WMD programme because of economic pressure - they couldn't afford to carry it on under the embargo, so why not end it and get trade options? That's what 18 months of diplomatic negotiations was about.

Christian fundamentalism also concerns us. I mean, creationism in text books? What the hell is that about!

Do you guys hate the environment? I heard a guy from Texaco say he didn't care about global warming, because he could afford to live somewhere nice anyway. I mean, come on...

And constanly rambling about how you "saved Europes ass" in WW2. Russia did more too liberate Europe and it was THEIR troops who died in their millions to defeat Hitler. American troops (with Canadians, Indians, Australians, Brits and every other country that fough) did their bit, but stop with the saved us from the Nazis B/S.

And one more gripe. Killing OUR troops in the Gulf war. Are all Americans blind? Does the US army require troops to have an IQ of 12 before they give them a gun? I mean Soviet built tanks / British built tanks. It's not that tough.

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

The achievements for the American ruling class are not achievements for the rest of the world. Did the entire world attack Socialist China when it was the most powerful nation in the world? No, because it didn't parade around the world looking for the greatest profits and new indigenous environments it could consume. Fuck US imperialism.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

Oh please. It never ceases to amaze me how Americans are STILL whining about the middle east taking 6000 lives when the USA alone is responsible for taking 1.4 million Middle Eastern lives in the last decade alone, and upholds the largest terrorist state in the Middle East. THE STATE OF ISRAEL

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

Your reduction of people to nationalism disgusts me. The world is divded by classes, not nations. The fact that Russian people who actually understand Dialectics (unlike you Americans who do not leanr it in schools) simply reinforces their hatred for US Imperialism. Do you think the members of these nations like having their countries defaced with your corporate logos, raped of their culture?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

The USA does no such thing. The USA advocates CAPITALISM and nothing else. Look at Nepal. They uphold a king who supports their economic needs while the calling those are actually fighting for democracy in Nepal terrorists. Let's not forget Saddam Hussein was a popularly elected leader twice before they pulled him out of power for not trading with them.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

You are completely missing the point of the American Empire. The empire's purpose is to exploit indigenous people's around the world for cheap labor and natural resources. One cannot do that as easily f they are citizens, because their economy because the US economy and therefore cannot be raped. But even if this were not the case, the USA has seized various countries in the past for it's own profit such as Panama, Hawaii, and the Phillipines. In either scenario the purpose of the USA's military conquests are to install puppet governments and establish good trade relations to maximize profits for the American ruling class.

Is a seosavist like a theosophist?

Absolutely. Even though we disagree, it's a good thing.

i got it :p
Yay!


Ow and I hate America, boo! Bah!...

close one

I don't hate America and I don't hate Americans, what I do hate is the arrogant, self righteous attitude that a lot of Americans possess i.e. the 'we know better' attitude. The post that sparked this debate goes some way to highlight this issue.

"Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible"

"Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?"

America it seems should be set on a pedastool, that is according to the author of this thread. If for one moment the said author could move outside of himself/herself and assimilate what they have said but from another individuals perspective (say a non-Americans) then perhaps he/she would take a step closer in understanding where some negative feeling towards the American people are derived from. However, whether any amount of understanding on this level is at all pheasable is an entirely different matter.

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

I'm not suprised you think this way. At first I was, because of how long you have been on this board and how many rational people have posed some really good constructive criticism within that time, but then I remembered that whenever somebody says anything about the US that isn't praise you merely put your hands over yoru ears and close your eyes and go "lalalalalala". Those are some high quality blinders you got on there Etrusca. Let me guess... now I'm an America hater in your eyes.

So I shall not try to show you the light as I don't think you will ever see it and instead I will give the patented "Etrusca Response to Negative Information About The U.S.":

You're about 12 cans short of a six pack you loonytoon :headbang:

Ahhh how refreshing.

Passion does not exclude intelligence. Why should I retype everything just to save you clicking on a link.
I did say why I did not like your reply. Go back and read and think.

You then accuse me of posting single sentences, when I show that that is not my style what do I get? A retraction, an apology? No, just a further insult.

The pure arrogance to think that your way is the only way, that it is the best way that no one can ever be allowed to suggest that it is deficent in some way, is what creates the hatred of the USA.

You are being an excellent example of it. Thank you.

You are so arrogant. Say something now, instead of focusing on fighting with me. SAY SOMETHING. You need to get some therapy, because everything in this post can, and should, be directed at you.

Two-faced policies don't do any favours for the USA.

Such as
1 - refusing to condemn israel for any of the atrocities it has committed, while condemning the Palestinians
2 - criticising other countries human rights while torturing people held without trial in guantanamo
3 - looking to develop new kinds of nuclear weapons while telling Iran they cannot develop any
4 - propping up economically favourable dictators while attacking those who aren't valuable trade partners


Oh, and Libya gave up their WMD programme because of economic pressure - they couldn't afford to carry it on under the embargo, so why not end it and get trade options? That's what 18 months of diplomatic negotiations was about.

Christian fundamentalism also concerns us. I mean, creationism in text books? What the hell is that about!

Do you guys hate the environment? I heard a guy from Texaco say he didn't care about global warming, because he could afford to live somewhere nice anyway. I mean, come on...

And constanly rambling about how you "saved Europes ass" in WW2. Russia did more too liberate Europe and it was THEIR troops who died in their millions to defeat Hitler. American troops (with Canadians, Indians, Australians, Brits and every other country that fough) did their bit, but stop with the saved us from the Nazis B/S.

And one more gripe. Killing OUR troops in the Gulf war. Are all Americans blind? Does the US army require troops to have an IQ of 12 before they give them a gun? I mean Soviet built tanks / British built tanks. It's not that tough.

Finally someone said it, saved Europes ass, my ass, The wermacht lost 6 million troops++allies of theirs on the eastern front.. ON other fronts losses were all together under 1 million... IF anyone should have the honer of saving europe from nazis it should be the brave men and women of the red army..

And offcorse the heroic fight of brits in the battle of britain, even tough they seemed screwed they did not give up, and they made it through..



And what about their, we are free, my ass how come black people were not allowed to vote in the 2001 elections in florida...

America is controlled by Free Maisons and Jews..'

What about what they did in chile?? They armed pinoche and overthrew an elected goverment... I dont hate americans, but i hope they lose their position as world super power... ONce and for all...

Death to fachist scum and impirialists

Is a seosavist like a theosophist?
No, my name has nothing to do with that. My real name is Seosamh(its Irish for Joseph just pronounce it Joseph with a S)


Absolutely. Even though we disagree, it's a good thing.
:confused:

America stole my cat.

Sorry about that. I've got two noisy parrots you can have instead. They're in the mail.

You see, in the rest of the free world we have somthing called "Free Speech". We Criticize whomever we want.


And criticizing America is not anti-american. It is Anti-American not to criticize.
dingdingdingdingdingdingding

The USA does NOT try to export that culture. McDonald's is invading your country, not the USA. And if McD's can whoop the will of your people... well, the USA is out of your league. Stop your moaning. The original claim of the USA exporting that culture was ridiculous, just as much as your current moaning and whining and only slightly veiled hatred for the USA is. Eat the Big Mac, don't eat the Big Mac. Blame your local business man, or blame the fat kid who eats it. If your country can't control itself, then that's a problem with you and your people, not a problem with the USA exporting a "grease culture". The USA is handling its fat problem... Maybe your country will deal with its arrognance problem.

The deal is this, the USA and its people are blunt and call it like it is. All of these "older" countries are passive-aggressive. We'll tell you to your face what you say in chat rooms and behind our backs. You think that makes us arrogant. Nope. It makes us real.

Of course you're right.......

And companies like McDonalds, Pepsi, Coca Cola don't sit it on special invite only world think tanks along side US presidents, industrialists, elitists, and religious leaders to discuss the very americanised direction the world should take, albeit sin media in attendance.

Americans are often ignorant of what their own nation does, or worse yet, feign ignorance.

I don't hate America and I don't hate Americans, what I do hate is the arrogant, self righteous attitude that a lot of Americans possess i.e. the 'we know better' attitude. The post that sparked this debate goes some way to highlight this issue.

"Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible"

"Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?"

America it seems should be set on a pedastool, that is according to the author of this thread. If for one moment the said author could move outside of himself/herself and assimilate what they have said but from another individuals perspective (say a non-Americans) then perhaps he/she would take a step closer in understanding where some negative feeling towards the American people are derived from. However, whether any amount of understanding on this level is at all pheasable is an entirely different matter.

Here's the thing: Americans, for the most part, don't think they know better. But we hear all this ciritcism from all over the world, and we're thinking, "when did you get here?" or "Hey, get involved and we'll talk." Americans, as much as the bashers hate us, are good people who love much of the rest of the world (bashers will surely repond to that). We are people that give a lot - money, support, military... We know we don't do it right all of the time and we know our government screws up. But we're good people with REALLY good intentions. Now, enter the bashers, who only see our government, or negative foreign policy. They don't look at what the citizens have done across the world, or the other good things America has done. The world gets pissed, even though the United States is the largest contributor in aid of all kinds throughout the world. Many countries ask us for military help. We often give it. We just aren't, and probably never will be, on the sidelines. Maybe we ought to be, to get away from all of this negativity. If the world doesn't want our military or our money or our culture, then all the world has to do is say "no." But contrary to what you'll read by the bashers here, the world isn't saying "no". It's saying "no", "maybe" and "yes" and everything else in between, criticizing when they don't get what they want from the USA, and giving little thanks when the USA plays the role that they want. Americans are frustrated and irritated at the bashing, because we know who we are what we intend, and unfortunately, we don't get a chance to thank the rest of the world for what they've done for us in the past, or hear any gratitude for some of the stuff we've done, because the whining and the moaning of the America-hating mob is drowning out everything else.

You are so arrogant. Say something now, instead of focusing on fighting with me. SAY SOMETHING. You need to get some therapy, because everything in this post can, and should, be directed at you.

Let me see. What type of thing could you want me to say. I have already indicated to you my views by providing links to them. You don't comment on the views. I have challenged you to provide examples and evidence of god things that the USA has done. You have not done so. I believe the ball is in your court. Taking my accusations of you and trying to turn them against myself simply makes you look even more stupid. First I am a band wagoner, and now I am arrogant. Make up you petty little mind.
When you provide some evidence for your views I will contiure the discussion. I decline to carry on trading insults. It gains no one anything.
I await the evidence of the good acts by the USA.

look, everybody, isn't it clear?

The world is made up of dicks, pussies, and assholes.
Americans ARE dicks, and the people who don't like what america's been doing are pussies.
now, the 14,000 innocent people america killed in Iraq wouldn't like what America's been doing because sometimes dicks fuck pussies.
But dicks ALSO fuck assholes, and Saddam Hussein is an asshole. The Americans fucked him up.
Hell, if the dicks hadn't fucked the assholes, the assholes would have just shit all over everything. Cause that's all assholes want to do: SHIT ALL OVER EVERYTHING.
So the pussies need to realize why this is happening.

What? You could be the dumbest arrogant person on Earth. America doesn't make the world fat and lazy. You, eating the junk food and watching TV on your fat arse, make yourself fat, lazy (and obviously dumb as well). All you can do is moan about movies? Oh shut up you idiot.

On Earth? Heh no. Arrogant? Yes, but I don't believe my post reflected that, since I didn't praise myself... nor did I see it as particularly arrogant. Dumb? Again, hardly so. If you think I'M dumb, obviously you're an elitist type. And why are you referring to ME? I don't eat the food. I don't make myself fat or lazy. And at fast food restaurants, you don't eat in front of the TV. As you make the reference toward myself being dumb... it really does not do yourself much good either, considering your argument is piss weak. I was simply talking about American culture. That is what the majority of the world see American culture... Food and TV. If you don't like it, do something about it. Of course, there is more to it, but if you're going to offend someone as stiff as myself, perhaps you should think again as to your approach of this topic. Idiot? Heh... I can't remember the last good film I saw made recently... but that doesn't make me lazy or fat. ;)

look, everybody, isn't it clear?

The world is made up of dicks, pussies, and assholes.
Americans ARE dicks, and the people who don't like what america's been doing are pussies.
now, the 14,000 innocent people america killed in Iraq wouldn't like what America's been doing because sometimes dicks fuck pussies.
But dicks ALSO fuck assholes, and Saddam Hussein is an asshole. The Americans fucked him up.
Hell, if the dicks hadn't fucked the assholes, the assholes would have just shit all over everything. Cause that's all assholes want to do: SHIT ALL OVER EVERYTHING.
So the pussies need to realize why this is happening.


Are you high on extesy??

Of course you're right.......

And companies like McDonalds, Pepsi, Coca Cola don't sit it on special invite only world think tanks along side US presidents, industrialists, elitists, and religious leaders to discuss the very americanised direction the world should take, albeit sin media in attendance.

Americans are often ignorant of what their own nation does, or worse yet, feign ignorance.

Wow. you think the president of PepsiCo hung out with President Bush, and President Bush makes all foreign trade agreements only with Coca-cola and McDonald's approval? Perhaps they have a plan to fatten-up the planet at the behest of aliens who are going to lure us into a ginger bread house and cook us... :p

i hate you democrats, i hate you republicans.
you are all so insufferably annoying.

that's right; while you stupid people banter on, trying to use psychojargon to show how much of a bigger person you are, i shit on both of you.
just shut up.
SHUT UP.
The U.S. will kill until it can kill no more. There is no use arguing with it, whether it is right or if it is wrong. This is not about some sort of "dialogue" you're going to have and fix everything. So why don't you just sit back, watch Fox News, eat some Dunkin' Donuts and have a good laugh while people you don't know die as the result of very very highly technological weaponry.
If you are an insurgent, FUCK you too. You think of stupid excuses for everything.
If you fight for a God(s), FUCK you, too.

Everyone stop arguing. The death will not end. Your prayers and protests will amount to nothing. You will be assimilated, no matter whom you are.

Peace.

b4 i adress why i luv my country but disagree with it- this wuz a recent comment-
"refusing to condemn israel for any of the atrocities it has committed, while condemning the Palestinians"
1. Israel hasn't committed any atrocities against the Palestinian people. It is merely trying to defend itself against daily suicide bombings, tryin to destroy the fabric of Israeli society.

Now i'll adress this thread-I LOVE AMERICA!- but i disagree with the way Bush is running it.
BUSH IS DESTROYING AMERICA'S REPUTATION IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY!
he continues to treat Europe like their irresponsible children, invades Iraq THAT HAS NO CONNECTION TO AL-QAEDA OR 9/11 AND CLAIMS OF WMD'S BUT FINDS OUT THERE WERE NONE!
and Bush, in addition continues to let the dollar collapse, without taking any action
I dont wanna c my country continue to decline. But with Bush, our state of retrogression is insured.

Goddamn, I hate what the U.S stand for (notice how i do NOT call it ''my country'' or America. both are the height of arrogance, but arrogance is synononmous with this shit-hole anyway.

On an earlier note, someone compared 9-11 to pearl harbor and said ''that will never be forgotten''. Mmmkay, not forgetting a massacre. Just like we did'nt forget the internment camps, pearl harbor (long gone), and all the shit we've heaped on people and been justly repaid for. The current administration must have great propaganda, in order to blind this country so effectively.

stuff

Abrasive as your posts may be, I like the cut of your jib, good sir.

Kindergartners, do you live in (as in possess citizenship to) the USA? If you do, it's your country. It doesn't get much simpler than that. When someone asks where you are from, what do you say?

I realize that many of the rabid anti-Americans on here are going to post enlightening things like: "'Cause Americans are stupid!" or "'Cause you keep attacking other countries!" or "'Cause American soldiers are all trigger-happy!" or similar strangeness. But I, for one, have been pondering just why so many of the posters on here truly seem to hate America and Americans.

Here are some of the reasons I believe thre are so many on here who post knee-jerk anti-Americanism:

1. We make a good target. Anyone on top in any field of endeavour is automatically highly visible. Attacking them is easy and fun for those with lesser achievements.

2. Differing opinions on the response to 9/11. 9/11 was a wake-up call for America. It was seen as an unwarranted attack on innocent civilians and totally unprovoked. Traditionally, America is quick to respond to this sort of thing ( see Peral Harbor ). Many who post on here apparently agree with the position presented to me by a foreign national almost immediately after 9/11: "Just forget it and move on." This is not the way America responds to attacks on its civilians on its own soil.

3. Envy. Many of the anti_american posters on here are from nations which have been superpowers in the past: Germany, France, Russia, even Great Britain. There is a degree of envy at the impact America and American actions have on their own countries at this point in time, witness the so-called "cultural imperialism" allegations. This is most often used by Germans ( who tried their damndest to conquer the entire world! ), and French ( who managed to reach Moscow before the weather decimated them ). Which is worse, taking over another country by force, or taking over a portion of another country's culture by offering good products and services at a reasonable price?

4. Resentment at having America presume to advocate a better form of government ( democracy ) for people who have been unable to attain it for themselves.

5. Fear that America is finally recognizing that its influence and power are capable of changing the world. I've noted that some on here who claim that America is trying to establish an empire seem to fear that, now that America is hitting her stride, their own country will be somehow "taken over." This despite the fact that America has never kept territory from any of the nations she defeated, other than a few small islands for naval and airforce bases, which were used to defend other nations.

These are some of the reasons I see for anti-Americansim. This thread is not suppose to be flame-bait, but rather just the perspective of one American on this issue. Please at least try to present your arguments in a calm, logical, reasoned manner, rather than simply saying something along the lines of "America sucks!"

These are not the reasons I hate America. The closest you got was envy, but I'm envious that you can be so wasteful, so generally uncaring of intelligence, art and science, so insuluar, so unneeding and unknowing of the rest of the world, that your national food can be a burger and that your self proclaimed love is war. I envy that you can waste everything you get and simply buy more. But I hate you because if it, and I hate you because you could do so much more if you simply opened your eyes to know that America is not the whole world. That other peoples opinions are valid, that money isn't always the answer and war isn't the way. But I'm Australian and I am your 52nd state (After Britain), my country is on it's way to being as deluded as yours and (after my trip to Florida) I can only wish our people don't become a single thinking being where the idea of manners of politeness is uncool, where you have to walk 2k's to find something that's not deep fried and where the music stations play Jazz, alternative rock and Queen. Where truth isn't censored and "Fair and Balanced" is given from a 1st person response by someone who isn't trivialising life and death for a dollar. America is the country that saw it's potential and settled for an ego.

You will hate this post because it's just an opinion right?

I'm not suprised you think this way. At first I was, because of how long you have been on this board and how many rational people have posed some really good constructive criticism within that time, but then I remembered that whenever somebody says anything about the US that isn't praise you merely put your hands over yoru ears and close your eyes and go "lalalalalala". Those are some high quality blinders you got on there Etrusca. Let me guess... now I'm an America hater in your eyes.

So I shall not try to show you the light as I don't think you will ever see it and instead I will give the patented "Etrusca Response to Negative Information About The U.S.":

You're about 12 cans short of a six pack you loonytoon :headbang:

Ahhh how refreshing.

The post to which you responded was detailed enough. It was not your "lalalala". What you fail to see, is that when we argue against the America-bashing, all of you bashers cry and moan and take the stance that we must be too patriotic, or we must be covering our ears. Here's an idea: Maybe you bashers have your collective head up your collective rear... That, to me, is why YOUR ears are covered up (by your colon).

The simply truth is, some of the negative things said about the USA is true. A lot of them are false. The picture of "America the Perfect" is just as flawed as the picture "America the Tyrrant". But the bashers want something to hate, so hate away.

i hate you democrats, i hate you republicans.
you are all so insufferably annoying.

that's right; while you stupid people banter on, trying to use psychojargon to show how much of a bigger person you are, i shit on both of you.
just shut up.
SHUT UP.
The U.S. will kill until it can kill no more. There is no use arguing with it, whether it is right or if it is wrong. This is not about some sort of "dialogue" you're going to have and fix everything. So why don't you just sit back, watch Fox News, eat some Dunkin' Donuts and have a good laugh while people you don't know die as the result of very very highly technological weaponry.
If you are an insurgent, FUCK you too. You think of stupid excuses for everything.
If you fight for a God(s), FUCK you, too.

Everyone stop arguing. The death will not end. Your prayers and protests will amount to nothing. You will be assimilated, no matter whom you are.

Peace.

Wow!

I have a question for you. Why don't YOU shut up? What is the point in tellign everyone to shut up? Shouldnt you be sitting back watching FOX news and eating donuts laughing at everyone instead of losing yur head over some people having an argument? Your little hateful speech isn't goign to stop them so what is the point? lol

:p

b4 i adress why i luv my country but disagree with it- this wuz a recent comment-
"refusing to condemn israel for any of the atrocities it has committed, while condemning the Palestinians"
1. Israel hasn't committed any atrocities against the Palestinian people. It is merely trying to defend itself against daily suicide bombings, tryin to destroy the fabric of Israeli society.

.

The Isralis have shot children.
They have bombed entire residential buildings.
They have built a wall that prevents Palestinian workers going to work.
They have bombed Palesitian police stations.
They have shot aid workers.
They have shot peace protesters.

Wow!

I have a question for you. Why don't YOU shut up? What is the point in tellign everyone to shut up? Shouldnt you be sitting back watching FOX news and eating donuts laughing at everyone instead of losing yur head over some people having an argument? Your little hateful speech isn't goign to stop them so what is the point? lol

:p

In his defence, he's putting up as good an arguement as anyone else. There will be no winner to this arguement, there never will be. The only way this arguement would end is if everyone agreed to disagree (like gentlemen ;) ) and left the thread. We all know that's not happening any time soon.

Israel hasn't committed any atrocities against the Palestinian people.
lol what

In his defence, he's putting up as good an arguement as anyone else. There will be no winner to this arguement, there never will be. The only way this arguement would end is if everyone agreed to disagree and left the thread. We all know that's not happening any time soon.

The argument is the ends, not the means. By arguing hopefully some people gain a better understanding.

The argument is the ends, not the means. By arguing hopefully some people gain a better understanding.

In theory, yes. But you know as well as I do that people in this forum are (on the average) pretty close-minded when it comes to the topic of America.

Edit: I'll admit I'm guilty as charged for some of that as well, read through my big posts, some of them are pretty Rah Rah go USA kill em all :)

In theory, yes. But you know as well as I do that people in this forum are (on the average) pretty close-minded when it comes to the topic of America.

If one person learns, it is worthwhile. Like the Evolutuon vs Creationism forum at evcforum.net. One single Creationist who learns the truth is a victory for us all.

Wow. you think the president of PepsiCo hung out with President Bush, and President Bush makes all foreign trade agreements only with Coca-cola and McDonald's approval? Perhaps they have a plan to fatten-up the planet at the behest of aliens who are going to lure us into a ginger bread house and cook us... :p

Actually, Coca Cola and Pepsi were supposedly discussing how to best offer clean potable water to the world's population, just a couple years ago... at a Bilderburg meeting.

Of course, it would have to be bottled water.... and sold in a free market system because as we all know, capitalism is the best distribution system known to mankind....

I like to think of the soft drink bottle companies as kind do gooders with only our best interests at heart.

Anyone ever see "Tank Girl"? :rolleyes:

zip it Thoricana...

Here's my thing.

The University of Connecticut ran a survey last month asking a random sample of 112,000 American high School students questions about press freedoms.

36% of them said that media stories (press and television and radio) should get "government approval" before they hit the public's senses.

This is not a "liberal" or "conservative" view.

It's fascism.
Since youth tend to -- if anything -- further lose their grasp on the importance of speech freedoms as they get older, the U.S. is now pretty much guaranteed to be on the happy road to fascism.
Wow, doesn't that suck?

So I've given up. Pretty soon even this discussion board will be a thing of the past. War will be peace. Slavery will be freedom.

Oh, and 75% thought that flag burning should be a crime, and 74% thought that it was.
Amazing.
Good night. 229 years is NOT such a bad run. Can anybody say "Hell in a handbasket"?

The argument is the ends, not the means. By arguing hopefully some people gain a better understanding.
Only by your philosophy. Some argue by the ends. Some argue by the means. This is why I generally steer clear of how wars are fought and won.

i hate you democrats, i hate you republicans.
you are all so insufferably annoying.

that's right; while you stupid people banter on, trying to use psychojargon to show how much of a bigger person you are, i shit on both of you.
just shut up.
SHUT UP.
The U.S. will kill until it can kill no more. There is no use arguing with it, whether it is right or if it is wrong. This is not about some sort of "dialogue" you're going to have and fix everything. So why don't you just sit back, watch Fox News, eat some Dunkin' Donuts and have a good laugh while people you don't know die as the result of very very highly technological weaponry.
If you are an insurgent, FUCK you too. You think of stupid excuses for everything.
If you fight for a God(s), FUCK you, too.

Everyone stop arguing. The death will not end. Your prayers and protests will amount to nothing. You will be assimilated, no matter whom you are.

Peace.

Lots of cursing, lots of insults and general dislike of everybody but you end the message with "peace". umm, it just don't seem appropriate. FUCK YOU does not equal PEACE.

These are not the reasons I hate America. The closest you got was envy, but I'm envious that you can be so wasteful, so generally uncaring of intelligence, art and science, so insuluar, so unneeding and unknowing of the rest of the world, that your national food can be a burger and that your self proclaimed love is war. I envy that you can waste everything you get and simply buy more. But I hate you because if it, and I hate you because you could do so much more if you simply opened your eyes to know that America is not the whole world. That other peoples opinions are valid, that money isn't always the answer and war isn't the way. But I'm Australian and I am your 52nd state (After Britain), my country is on it's way to being as deluded as yours and (after my trip to Florida) I can only wish our people don't become a single thinking being where the idea of manners of politeness is uncool, where you have to walk 2k's to find something that's not deep fried and where the music stations play Jazz, alternative rock and Queen. Where truth isn't centred and "Fair and Balanced" is given from a 1st person response by someone who isn't trivialising life and death for a dollar. America is the country that saw it's potential and settled for an ego.

You will hate this post because it's just an opinion right?

No, this is perfect. Because it isn't some trumped-up half truth (or no truth at all). This is valuable, because you're not trying to convince America it is evil, and you make your point. There is truth in there, because truth comes from your experience, not from misinterpretations of facts as others have done here. Thanks for sharing. It is valuable, even if we don't all agree. By the way, not all of America is like that, and to be quite frank, that's not what the real America, the America that matters, stands for. I know Australia will not become a different entity, at its core, just because of some burger joints. The fast food is a fad that will be gone in 50-75 years. What America is, what Australia is, that will remain for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Now, enter the bashers, who only see our government, or negative foreign policy. They don't look at what the citizens have done across the world, or the other good things America has done.
sure they do it's just not something that you can talk about for very long.

(you've been asked to give examples by someone else)

The world gets pissed, even though the United States is the largest contributor in aid of all kinds throughout the world.
I'm not trying to take away from that but, not per capita.

criticizing when they don't get what they want from the USA, and giving little thanks when the USA plays the role that they want.
Yeah thats what people do, when they don't get what they want they complain.

Americans are frustrated and irritated at the bashing, because we know who we are what we intend, and unfortunately, we don't get a chance to thank the rest of the world for what they've done for us in the past, or hear any gratitude for some of the stuff we've done, because the whining and the moaning of the America-hating mob is drowning out everything else.
I don't hate the US lots of people don't hate the US just critise it. If you can't see the difference well thats your problem.

Let me see. What type of thing could you want me to say. I have already indicated to you my views by providing links to them. You don't comment on the views. I have challenged you to provide examples and evidence of god things that the USA has done. You have not done so. I believe the ball is in your court. Taking my accusations of you and trying to turn them against myself simply makes you look even more stupid. First I am a band wagoner, and now I am arrogant. Make up you petty little mind.
When you provide some evidence for your views I will contiure the discussion. I decline to carry on trading insults. It gains no one anything.
I await the evidence of the good acts by the USA.

Blah, blah, blah. Rinse and repeat. You're on spin cycle.

The post to which you responded was detailed enough. It was not your "lalalala". What you fail to see, is that when we argue against the America-bashing, all of you bashers cry and moan and take the stance that we must be too patriotic, or we must be covering our ears. Here's an idea: Maybe you bashers have your collective head up your collective rear... That, to me, is why YOUR ears are covered up (by your colon).

The simply truth is, some of the negative things said about the USA is true. A lot of them are false. The picture of "America the Perfect" is just as flawed as the picture "America the Tyrrant". But the bashers want something to hate, so hate away.

Well yer new here so I will forgive your ignorance of Etruscas past.

His post was hardly detailed to include the reasons why people bash America. He chose some very simple one sided ideas that he has in his mind why people talk shit about America. If he really thinks those are the main reasons then I feel personally that he must be putting his blinders on because he should know better as long as he has been here. Either that or he is flame-baiting.

Nice how you called me an America basher. lol - I live in America and i love the US, but I am not blind to the attrocities it commits. I was merely giving Etrusca exactly what he dishes out when he doesnt agree with someone, as a sort of example as to how useless posts like that are. Maybe it wasn't obvious enough.

Let me give you an example. He has this hatred of Zeppistan because Zepp posts very detailed and very well thought out arguments of why he doesnt like how the Bush administration runs things. everytime he posts somethign like this Etrusca chimes in calling him an America hater and an American Basher and then beats his head against the wall :headbang: and offfers no rebuttal to Zepps argument. Which he isnt either of those, he is merely very critical of Bush and Co., which is not the same as an America hater.

Sure there are plenty of people who say stupid shit against America but there are plenty of people in teh US who say stupid shit about Canada or other countries that are completely pointless. I disagree with those who lump all Americans into the fat lazy dumb redneck catagory.

I hope you understand where I am comign from now. I dont hate America, I disagree with Bush and his policies. And I think Etrusca has issues. Thank you and good day :)

The thing is, all in all, it's stupid to generalize on ANYTHING, America bashers as well. Theres no way you can give 5 examples and expect them to be the majority of reasons. There are really good reasons and there are really stupid reasons why peopel bash America, but there arent just 5 reasons. lol

Actually, Coca Cola and Pepsi were supposedly discussing how to best offer clean potable water to the world's population, just a couple years ago... at a Bilderburg meeting.

Of course, it would have to be bottled water.... and sold in a free market system because as we all know, capitalism is the best distribution system known to mankind....

I like to think of the soft drink bottle companies as kind do gooders with only our best interests at heart.

Anyone ever see "Tank Girl"? :rolleyes:

zip it Thoricana...
LoL, I love it :P Was it Coca Cola who came up with 'Dansani' or something or the sort... In Britain, before it got released wholescale, they sold... guess what... tap water. They sold tap water to the British until they could get the real thing and sadly, it sold because of the name. Shame. And it was proved as so... Reference... I'm sure if you need it, you can look yourselves.

Reasons why i hate the american country (but not most of its people, they didnt do anything bad.... except for voting Bush)

-Imperialism.
Come on guys, this bad bad bad word describes american politics the best way. The american government and the american economy have become some kind of the same thing and now they are using all its power to get even more power. Dumb, selfish greed. I hate it >_>
For example: In Germany has once been an american factory. Dont know which sort of, but this factory was rebuild in poland, and closed in germany.... because the polish government buyed american airplanes.
Oh, and dont forget about all the dictators you supported around the world. Guess who brought Saddam in power, huh, america forgets sooo fast.

-Arrogance
The second big point is all about your "our weapons only kill bad Dudes"-behaviour. The IRaq-War killed more people, then Saddam ever did. Torture is still reality in Iraq, the only good thing that is brought down to there ist democracy.... why didnt america brought them democracy at once? Oh, i forgot, they needed Saddam to fight the "communism"
And dont behave like America invented Democracy. It were the Graecians. Oh, and dont forget about the Frenchs, america "stole" them really cool ideas like equal rights for everyone.
The darndest thing with this arrogance is, most of the americans tell me how bad it is, that i hate america, and other stuff they dislike, they behave like they know everything, but these simple things they dont even know....

-greed
oh, sorry, i repeated myself.

-capitalism
Capitalism is bad, dude. Well, its not my problem if people like to live in a capitalistic system, but dont force me to live the same way.


Mah, i dont even think that anyone will read this, or even understand it, my english has become really bad :/

I believe in America. I'd consider myself very patriotic, maybe to a fault.

But that doesn't absolve her from criticism. I have a lot to complain about, but this applies only to our government, not our citizens.
Her detractors unanimous response: We're certifiable simpletons. Studies say so.

But these same assholes will tell you how bullshit IQ tests and polls are.
But when rerencing the US, they will offer you pithy, often biased test results about the lower intelligence of US citizens vs. those elsewhere.
What a steaming crock.
I understand not liking the current administration, but lambasting millions of people for their nationality is bigoted. No matter how you wanna cut that shitpie, it's still a load of crap.
Imagine if you started posting "alL of yOus FukIn GErmAns ARe NaZi fAGIts"-type threads, only with some real heart behind it.

I have no respect for anyone I hear making a SNAFU like that.
And I lose respect for a lot of people daily on this board for that reason.

Post about Bush, or policies, or whatever. But "(insert nation here)SuXXoRs" biggots need to go copulate in solitude.

Let me see. What type of thing could you want me to say. I have already indicated to you my views by providing links to them. You don't comment on the views. I have challenged you to provide examples and evidence of god things that the USA has done. You have not done so. I believe the ball is in your court. Taking my accusations of you and trying to turn them against myself simply makes you look even more stupid. First I am a band wagoner, and now I am arrogant. Make up you petty little mind.
When you provide some evidence for your views I will contiure the discussion. I decline to carry on trading insults. It gains no one anything.
I await the evidence of the good acts by the USA.

The Marshall plan.
The U.N.
NASA (specifically the HST)
Getting the f*@#ing Taliban
Helping mediate between the IRA and Britain