NationStates Jolt Archive

Monosexual?
:confused:
Heterosexual actually, the only penis I've touched is my own.

And wouldn't you describe your member in glowing terms?
Only if it had somehow been exposed too long to high doses of radiation! :D

i'd make him hetrosexual. whatever it takes.

i'd make him hetrosexual. whatever it takes.
Give some examples of strategies to make him heterosexual. I'm curious as to what you could do.

Give some examples of strategies to make him heterosexual. I'm curious as to what you could do.brain surgery?

i'd make him hetrosexual. whatever it takes.

How?

How?
i'm guessing through a careful and sacred regimen of beatings coupled with lectures on the hideous immorality of the human condition.

brain surgery?
No doctor would try. Plus we currently don't know enough about the brain to pull off such an operation successfully. I think the best you could do currently is eliminate all sex drive.

Give some examples of strategies to make him heterosexual. I'm curious as to what you could do.
Heh. Perhaps one of those brainwashing camps that teach "good Christian values" and encourage "healthy lifestyles". :rolleyes:

I think you would still have to treat your child the same way. You can't force your child to be staight then they wouldn't be happy. If you never talked to them again you would probably regret it if something bad happened to him/her.

Yup, may be strange to you, but to me that is good parenting.

Plus it's not like a severe brainwashing, it's just normalizing his/her sexuality.

How can it be 'normalising' it, by changing it?

I would treat them the same as any other child. I would tell them to be careful and not to take any wooden nickels.

How?



South Africa, prior to 1994, used to have mandatory hormonal treatment which had some success.

I would treat them the same as any other child. I would tell them to be careful and not to take any wooden nickels.

I've never had the chance to see a wooden nickel-if I ever do-I will take it.

Well, I've heard plenty of them state they will have sex with anything that has a hole, so maybe the term 'omnisexual' is more appropriate?

Or maybe "Holosexual" ?

South Africa, prior to 1994, used to have mandatory hormonal treatment which had some success.

That sounds laughable.

South Africa, prior to 1994, used to have mandatory hormonal treatment which had some success.
sure, if by "success" you mean subjecting unwilling patients to "therapy" that left them impotent or infertile, caused their systems to permanently lose the ability to correctly regulate hormone levels (often inducing pseudo-sex-changes in both men and women), and which induced lasting sado-masichism, sexual disfuction, suicidal depression, and neurological disorders (including chronic migraines, constant muscle tension and pain, and a host of mental disorders).

not to mention that application of hormone therapy to adult individuals has been repeatedly proven ineffective at altering sexual orientation. but we'll just ignore that tiny detail, because as long as we make people suffer for being gay we can consider our work "successful."

I remind ya'll of course that you are chemically tied to your children. A mothers (not so much a fathers) love is far more unconditional that you may imagine it to be know before you have children.

Natures not stupid you know :D

I would buy them pr0n.

http://www.neoteny.org/a/homosexuality.html

If it's genetic, as it is likely to be, you can't cure it with hormones. Nor is it a "choice".

Oh, and it looks like you should check if you're left-handed.

If a boy, I'd be proud to be the father of the first gay president of the united states. (aside from being proud to be the father of a president)

If a girl, I echo the sentiments of another post: I'd encourage her to enter the porn industry.

Like the human being that they are .

I agree

If a boy, I'd be proud to be the father of the first gay president of the united states. (aside from being proud to be the father of a president)

If a girl, I echo the sentiments of another post: I'd encourage her to enter the porn industry.
ahh, such wonderful gender roles..."boys, you can aspire to lead a nation! girls, you can aspire to have sex on camera for money!"

http://www.neoteny.org/a/homosexuality.html

If it's genetic, as it is likely to be, you can't cure it with hormones. Nor is it a "choice".

Oh, and it looks like you should check if you're left-handed.

Nuns in Catholic School "cured" many people of left-handedness.

http://www.neoteny.org/a/homosexuality.html

If it's genetic, as it is likely to be, you can't cure it with hormones. Nor is it a "choice".

Oh, and it looks like you should check if you're left-handed.

If it was a behavioral gender crossover NOT realted to sexual functioning I wonder if there'd still be this idiocy about 'lifestyle choices' and m0rulz?

One of the things that make me go "hmmmm."

http://www.neoteny.org/a/homosexuality.html

If it's genetic, as it is likely to be, you can't cure it with hormones. Nor is it a "choice".

Oh, and it looks like you should check if you're left-handed.
it has been pretty much thoroughly proven that homosexuality is NOT 100% genetic. there appears to be a genetic component, essentially like a predisposition, but studies of identical twins basically prove that homosexuality cannot be determined exclusively by genetics or womb environment.

I would dispwn them. hahaha, dispwned! take that.

someone earlier said that their dad realized they were gay after being married. the same thing happened with me. i was in 7th grade when my mom realized. my dad was very hateful about it. I live with my mom(s) and love them both more than anything. I cant wait till they can truly get married. i also go to a school that is, for the most part, very accepting. I love it here.

oh.. i guess ii should answer the question too....haha.. well, i would treat them just as i always would, with love and all that stuff! and of course, hook 'em up w/ my mom to talk if they have any questions and/or problems.

gotta go, typing this befor i head tom japanese.... sorry if anything is typed crappy and all that....

later days,
the feifdom of okita
Tom

someone earlier said that their dad realized they were gay after being married. the same thing happened with me. i was in 7th grade when my mom realized. my dad was very hateful about it. I live with my mom(s) and love them both more than anything. I cant wait till they can truly get married. i also go to a school that is, for the most part, very accepting. I love it here.

oh.. i guess ii should answer the question too....haha.. well, i would treat them just as i always would, with love and all that stuff! and of course, hook 'em up w/ my mom to talk if they have any questions and/or problems.

gotta go, typing this befor i head tom japanese.... sorry if anything is typed crappy and all that....

later days,
the feifdom of okita
Tom
if it's not too personal a question, do you feel that having a gay mother has changed your sexuality? in other words, if you don't mind sharing, did having gay parents make you gay?

it has been pretty much thoroughly proven that homosexuality is NOT 100% genetic. there appears to be a genetic component, essentially like a predisposition, but studies of identical twins basically prove that homosexuality cannot be determined exclusively by genetics or womb environment.

Uhh that applies to sexual orientation, period. ;)

Hee. I misread the title of this thread as "If your child was gay, how would you beat them?" at fiirst glance.
:D

it has been pretty much thoroughly proven that homosexuality is NOT 100% genetic. there appears to be a genetic component, essentially like a predisposition, but studies of identical twins basically prove that homosexuality cannot be determined exclusively by genetics or womb environment.

Maybe not 100% - but once you're that way, you're that way.

Some of the research indicates it's partially a predisposition, partially an exposure to stress in the womb.

But once you come out of the womb, that cake is already baked.

Uhh that applies to sexual orientation, period. ;)
well, yes, obviously. semantics.

I'd throw him the hell out of the house and totally disown him!

Maybe not 100% - but once you're that way, you're that way.

not according to research. look at identical twin studies.

Some of the research indicates it's partially a predisposition, partially an exposure to stress in the womb.

But once you come out of the womb, that cake is already baked.
again, no. identical twin studies prove that factors after birth MUST be impacting sexual orientation. genetics and womb environment cannot be solely responsible, and post-birth environment clearly has a significant impact on the "final" sexuality of any given individual.

I'd throw him the hell out of the house and totally disown him!
:(

ahh, such wonderful gender roles..."boys, you can aspire to lead a nation! girls, you can aspire to have sex on camera for money!"

hehe. but of course.

well, yes, obviously. semantics.

Well, yes though a bit deeper than semantics. The variant in this case occurs infrequently but regularly. If we removed from the conclusion of the twin study for example all references to sexual orientation and replaced it with some innoccuous non-descriptive label it would tend to dissolve away the prejudicial and rather unscientific reasoning people tend to take away form such studies.

not according to research. look at identical twin studies.

again, no. identical twin studies prove that factors after birth MUST be impacting sexual orientation. genetics and womb environment cannot be solely responsible, and post-birth environment clearly has a significant impact on the "final" sexuality of any given individual.

I just don't believe that it can be undone, once done. VoteEarly believes that they can be "converted" to hetero by medical procedure.

One might ask if the convertee would even want to convert.

:(
don't be sad; the best gift somebody like him could give to their child would be to get that child OUT OF THEIR HOME. any child born to parently like that is better off being disowned, so we really should be feeling sorry for their STRAIGHT kids...those are the kids who end up staying in a home with shitty parents.

Hee. I misread the title of this thread as "If your child was gay, how would you beat them?" at fiirst glance.
:D
"Beat on the brat Beat on the brat Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh

Beat on the brat Beat on the brat Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh

What can you do? What can you do?
With a brat like that always on your back What can you lose?

What can you do? What can you do?
With a brat like that always on your back What can you lose?"
"Beat on the Brat", by The Ramones

I just don't believe that it can be undone, once done. VoteEarly believes that they can be "converted" to hetero by medical procedure.

it's not a matter of "converting." it's simply a matter of human sexuality not being set at birth. humans aren't sexual beings from day 1, we reach sexual maturity gradually, and our sexuality reflects that fact. a newborn does not have any sexual orientation at all, it's a non-sexual being, but it will develop its sexuality and sexual identity over the course of its life and development.

medical procedures certainly can alter a person's sexuality, but there has never been a case in which doing so resulted in healthy, normal sexuality. attempts to use hormone therapy, aversion therapy, or surgeries have invariably resulted in individuals with physiological, psychological, and sexual disfuctions. there is no way to "make" your child turn out heterosexual without also permanently damaging their body and their brain. no ethical medical professional would even consider subjecting a child to such abuse, and any parent who attempted to have their child put through that would be guilty of torture.

One might ask if the convertee would even want to convert.many gay people wish they were straight, because being gay is currently a very difficult undertaking for a lot of people. there are many reasons why gay people might want to "convert," and there are also many reasons why straight people might want to become gay. for instance, a woman is far, far less likely to contract an STD if she is lesbian, and she also has a longer predicted life span if she chooses a female life partner (as opposed to a male life partner). she is less likely to be physically and sexually abused by her romantic partner. she is actually less likely to be murdered if she avoids having any romantic involvement with males.

however, the fact that these reasons exist doesn't mean that conversion is necessarily possible. it is generally believed that sexuality (like many human cognitive functions) is set during a "critical period" in development, and once the individual has exitted that critical period it is essentially impossible to change their sexual orientation. an alternative view is that humans (like most primates) are innately bisexual, and that the decision to be exclusively heterosexual or homosexual is a societally-imposed abnormality.

... it is generally believed that sexuality (like many human cognitive functions) is set during a "critical period" in development, and once the individual has exitted that critical period it is essentially impossible to change their sexual orientation.

In my case it was 'decided' by or before the age of four years though It wasn't obvious or understood by me 'til puberty.

I just think that converting someone's sexuality just because some religious Swiss guy who enjoyed burning people alive didn't like homosexuals is a bad idea.

There are worse things in the world that deserve "fixing".

:headbang: :headbang: Well I'm gay and I think everyone needs a little 'gay' in them :fluffle:

:headbang: :headbang: Well I'm gay and I think everyone needs a little 'gay' in them :fluffle:
Or a lot, but that aside... smilies dont need to be in your post :D. Yeah ok the smile and the fluffle, but the head banger is cliche.

:headbang: :headbang: Well I'm gay and I think everyone needs a little 'gay' in them :fluffle:
id rather not have a gay inside me :p

that depends. if it was a boy, i'd cook him and eat him. if it was a girl, id force her into the porn industry.
LOL funny answer

:headbang: :headbang: Well I'm gay and I think everyone needs a little 'gay' in them :fluffle:

sick.......

The correct answer to the question of how to treat your gay child lies below. Follow the link.

www.churchofeuthanasia.org/graphics/new/eqffj.jpg

Ceremoniously disembowel them, then drive 'em down local brothel...

Well, I AM a Christian and I happen to think that anyone who says they'd throw their children out, disown them, or anything like that is going against the very teachings of Christ.

I would NEVER disown my child. I would NEVER throw them out. I would NEVER teach them to be bigoted and hatefilled and I would NEVER teach them to Judge.

I happen to believe that we are predominantly born that way (even though there are circumstances were one would "become" gay). And since I believed that God created us all, then he created us to be who we are and become in the womb, which then means, he created some of us gay, some of us straight.

Just as I do not believe in "step" children/parents (that is, once you are part of the family you are a parent/child just the same as if you were so naturally), I will never understand the hating and hurting that occurs with gay people. I just don't understand someone who claims to be Christian, allowing the hate to continue and actively supporting that hate. That is so not what Christ teaches us.

BTW, I am a happily married (to a man) woman with 2 children whom I homeschool, who also happens to be bi-sexual. And I am proud of it, so is my husband, so are my kids and my family.

And no, I would not be ashamed if I met Christ, to tell him this very thing. I would tell him everything and then some (of course, he already knows it). And I wouldn't be ashamed of it in the least. To do so, would be a lie and I am not going to lie to the man himself.

If my children told me they were gay, we'd talk about it (mostly how to be safe and healthy--just as we've had that "talk" now) and then I'd welcome them and their partners with open arms. I'd support them in love and kindness. NOTHING will come between me and my children--EVER!!

-_- = Just omg.

Gay is wrong.

don't be sad; the best gift somebody like him could give to their child would be to get that child OUT OF THEIR HOME. any child born to parently like that is better off being disowned, so we really should be feeling sorry for their STRAIGHT kids...those are the kids who end up staying in a home with shitty parents.

Why don't the two of you gay ones give me a puff before you throw that out? You raise your kids and I'll raise mine.
If you weren't interested in a real person's opinion, don't ask for it.

Why don't the two of you gay ones give me a puff before you throw that out? You raise your kids and I'll raise mine.
If you weren't interested in a real person's opinion, don't ask for it.

Just because I disagree with you and happen to think that a gay child would be perfectly OK (and I have a gay son, and it's just fine with me), it doesn't mean I'm not a "real person".

I'd just like to say to anyone advocating therapies to change sexual orientations, that among people who VOLUNTEER for these therapies and go through with them (There are thousands) there is a 99.98% failure rate. Meaning the rate of people who commit suicide as a result of these therapies is greater than the rate of those "cured" by them.

Really, there is nothing more natural about heterosexuality than homosexuality. Just because most people are heterosexual doesn't make it natural. if 95% of people were homosexual, and only engaged in sex with the other gender to procreate, would homosexuality then be "normal" and would those people engaging in heterosexual sex be immoral and wrong?

Voteearly, do you believe it within your rights to kill anyone who is not "elect"? How are you certain that you are among the "elect"? What makes you so sure that out of 6 billion people on this planet, God would have picked you?

And to everyone who has said that they would disown their child and tell them to leave: I truly hope you never have children, because you will either ruin their lives or make them carbon copies of you. It is one thing to dissaprove, but to do so to such an extent that you would disown a child for it? Why is homosexuality such a crime in your eyes?

Why don't the two of you gay ones give me a puff before you throw that out? You raise your kids and I'll raise mine.
If you weren't interested in a real person's opinion, don't ask for it.

Sorry, Dorksonia, I'm on their side. They are right, don't you realize the hate you are teaching your children when you tell them things like this? Or do not care about that hate? Are you honestly able to sit there and tell me you are perfectly OK with raising hate-filled bigots?

And to imply that those of us who happen to support Gays aren't real people or have no real opinion, that just proves who you really are.

Voteearly, do you believe it within your rights to kill anyone who is not "elect"? How are you certain that you are among the "elect"? What makes you so sure that out of 6 billion people on this planet, God would have picked you?

And to everyone who has said that they would disown their child and tell them to leave: I truly hope you never have children, because you will either ruin their lives or make them carbon copies of you. It is one thing to dissaprove, but to do so to such an extent that you would disown a child for it? Why is homosexuality such a crime in your eyes?

Romans 11:7, only the Elect aren't blinded to the truth of God (The doctrine of Grace). If you're Elect, then at one point or another in your life, you will be drawn irresistibly, by God, to accept the 5 points of Calvinism, repent, and be saved. If you are hostile to the 5 points, that is a powerful sign that God has predestinated you for a state of reprobation, rather than election. I hope that answers the first part of your question.

Secondly, I've been told by numerous psychologists that the way to get your kid to be a mirror image of you, is just to rough them up around age 2-4, when their youthful ego is most fragile. I'd have no way of knowing by age 4 if the kid was gay, so that wouldn't work.

But if beating a 15-16 year old, would achieve the result of beating the gayness out of them, and making them be straight, I'd surely do it. I'd tire my arms and hands out beating them. But I don't believe you can beat anybody into being one-way or the other.

I believe that if you are gay, it's a sign of total reprobation in the eyes of God, and there is not an ounce of hope for you. (Let us remember, that Mary Magdalene, a woman who was a prostitute, would likely be called a Reprobate, but she was pulled out of the life of sin she was in, because it so pleased God to pull her out, as a demonstration of His mercy for some. Although remember, it was God to begin with, who willed her into that life of sin, because it so pleased Him to do so. God will make some people awful sinners, just to make their redemption and realization of Election, all the more stunning and demonstrative of His infinite mercy for a finite number of people)

I hope that answers your questions.

Well, I AM a Christian and I happen to think that anyone who says they'd throw their children out, disown them, or anything like that is going against the very teachings of Christ.

I would NEVER disown my child. I would NEVER throw them out. I would NEVER teach them to be bigoted and hatefilled and I would NEVER teach them to Judge.

I happen to believe that we are predominantly born that way (even though there are circumstances were one would "become" gay). And since I believed that God created us all, then he created us to be who we are and become in the womb, which then means, he created some of us gay, some of us straight.

Just as I do not believe in "step" children/parents (that is, once you are part of the family you are a parent/child just the same as if you were so naturally), I will never understand the hating and hurting that occurs with gay people. I just don't understand someone who claims to be Christian, allowing the hate to continue and actively supporting that hate. That is so not what Christ teaches us.

BTW, I am a happily married (to a man) woman with 2 children whom I homeschool, who also happens to be bi-sexual. And I am proud of it, so is my husband, so are my kids and my family.

And no, I would not be ashamed if I met Christ, to tell him this very thing. I would tell him everything and then some (of course, he already knows it). And I wouldn't be ashamed of it in the least. To do so, would be a lie and I am not going to lie to the man himself.

If my children told me they were gay, we'd talk about it (mostly how to be safe and healthy--just as we've had that "talk" now) and then I'd welcome them and their partners with open arms. I'd support them in love and kindness. NOTHING will come between me and my children--EVER!!
[ applauds ] :D

Romans 11:7, only the Elect aren't blinded to the truth of God (The doctrine of Grace). If you're Elect, then at one point or another in your life, you will be drawn irresistibly, by God, to accept the 5 points of Calvinism, repent, and be saved. If you are hostile to the 5 points, that is a powerful sign that God has predestinated you for a state of reprobation, rather than election. I hope that answers the first part of your question.

Secondly, I've been told by numerous psychologists that the way to get your kid to be a mirror image of you, is just to rough them up around age 2-4, when their youthful ego is most fragile. I'd have no way of knowing by age 4 if the kid was gay, so that wouldn't work.

But if beating a 15-16 year old, would achieve the result of beating the gayness out of them, and making them be straight, I'd surely do it. I'd tire my arms and hands out beating them. But I don't believe you can beat anybody into being one-way or the other.

I believe that if you are gay, it's a sign of total reprobation in the eyes of God, and there is not an ounce of hope for you. (Let us remember, that Mary Magdalene, a woman who was a prostitute, would likely be called a Reprobate, but she was pulled out of the life of sin she was in, because it so pleased God to pull her out, as a demonstration of His mercy for some. Although remember, it was God to begin with, who willed her into that life of sin, because it so pleased Him to do so. God will make some people awful sinners, just to make their redemption and realization of Election, all the more stunning and demonstrative of His infinite mercy for a finite number of people)

I hope that answers your questions.
Voteearly, you are a cold, ruthless, fucked up person, and I will thank whatever forces hold sway over the world every day that I do not know you in person. If these are really the tenants of your religion, and that religion would support beating children to keep them from homosexuality, then I vow now to do all I legally can to end the practice of this religion. You believe in a God who creates people to torture them, and then creates other people to pamper them. You believe in a God who is playing a sick game with our lives.

The correct answer to the question of how to treat your gay child lies below. Follow the link.

www.churchofeuthanasia.org/graphics/new/eqffj.jpg
Hey, the CoE!
AWESOME!

I love the CoE for having that sign.

Voteearly, you are a cold, ruthless, fucked up person, and I will thank whatever forces hold sway over the world every day that I do not know you in person. If these are really the tenants of your religion, and that religion would support beating children to keep them from homosexuality, then I vow now to do all I legally can to end the practice of this religion. You believe in a God who creates people to torture them, and then creates other people to pamper them. You believe in a God who is playing a sick game with our lives.


I don't believe in beating children, only because I think it often does no good and just gives them mixed messages. As a child who was beaten myself, I don't see a problem with the principle of beating, provided there is a really darn good reason for it. My mother never had a really good reason, just venting her anger.

It would have been different if I was 12 years old and out running around with gangs and drinking. Up until age 16, I stayed at home every single night, never asked to go out at all, never wanted to go out, and I studied and worked on school work. (although after about age 10, my dad had custody, so that was really nice). Anyway, around age 16, I would occasionally go out with my friends, but I mostly kept out of trouble.

Anyway, it's not up to a mother to decide to beat her children, the bible is quite clear, it's the father's right to determine if and when there should be a beating. My father made it quite clear to me, I never did anything that warranted it what my mother did to me.

Therefore, I'm not really pro-beating, but folks out to be able to decide if it's the right thing for their kids. Some kids really just need it, the kids who are so mean and nasty they'd be slapping their mom around if not for dad being bigger than they are and able to physically stop them. I know some parents who slept with their bedroom door (reinforced steel) locked, because they were so afraid of their teenage son (who was in an out of juvie and now is in prison since he's over 18 finally and the court could put him in real prison) that they thought he might kill them in their sleep.

What would you do if your child came out to you as a homosexual one day?

Continue to love them no differently than I did the day before, period.

Let us remember, that Mary Magdalene, a woman who was a prostitute, would likely be called a Reprobate, but she was pulled out of the life of sin she was in, because it so pleased God to pull her out, as a demonstration of His mercy for some. Although remember, it was God to begin with, who willed her into that life of sin, because it so pleased Him to do so. God will make some people awful sinners, just to make their redemption and realization of Election, all the more stunning and demonstrative of His infinite mercy for a finite number of people)

I hope that answers your questions.

Wait, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute? I beg to differ.

Wait, God makes people do whatever He wants? You mean there is no free will? If that is the case, why should I even bother attempting to believe in God? If He wanted me to, surely I'd already be doing it...

Wait, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute? I beg to differ.

Wait, God makes people do whatever He wants? You mean there is no free will? If that is the case, why should I even bother attempting to believe in God? If He wanted me to, surely I'd already be doing it...


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Mary+Magdalene+prostitute

Both sides have good arguments, read it, it's pretty clear she had done something awful for a woman to do.

Luke 7:36-50 talks about her sin.

Anyway, it's not up to a mother to decide to beat her children, the bible is quite clear, it's the father's right to determine if and when there should be a beating

In MY house, a house I happen to believe and have been told so, a house that I know where a TRUE Christian resides, the husband and wife SHARE responsibilities. I may be commanded to be a submissive wife by the bible, but we happen to feel that that bible is not infallible. It was written by man, afterall. AND those rules, the one you spoke of, happen to follow Old Law, they do not apply to us now, as that was the purpose of Christ dying for us.

My husband and I share equally in everything we do. He didn't marry me for me to be a servant to him, he married me because he loves me. The better he treats me, the better he gets treated. The day he starts demanding that I submit to him because the bible said I should is the day I get a divorce from both Him and God.

And yes, Mary Magdelene was a prostitute. Free will does exist, but it is clear that some "christians" don't deem that free will just unless it meets *their* form of having free will.

It was written by man, afterall. AND those rules, the one you spoke of, happen to follow Old Law, they do not apply to us now, as that was the purpose of Christ dying for us.


So Peter, Paul, and Timothy, who were all in the New Testament, are now classed as Old Law?

I will not wax theological with you. It would be like talking to a drunk person and trying to convince them they are drunk.

But, those "men" are/were prophets and storytellers. The only person whose viewpoints matter to me, in the bible, is Jesus. If HE didn't command me to "submit to my husband", then why should I? Everything Jesus spoke of negates anything spoken prior to it (aside from the commandments, but even then he speaks that there is one commandment above those that he considers a fate worse for it than if you broke one of the ten).

If Jesus didn't say it or do it or deny it, then neither shall I.

If Jesus didn't say it or do it or deny it, then neither shall I.
so why are you using a computer?

I will not wax theological with you. It would be like talking to a drunk person and trying to convince them they are drunk.

But, those "men" are/were prophets and storytellers. The only person whose viewpoints matter to me, in the bible, is Jesus. If HE didn't command me to "submit to my husband", then why should I? Everything Jesus spoke of negates anything spoken prior to it (aside from the commandments, but even then he speaks that there is one commandment above those that he considers a fate worse for it than if you broke one of the ten).

If Jesus didn't say it or do it or deny it, then neither shall I.



Jesus didn't speak on many matters, so his disciples spoke on them as how they believed he would have, were he with them and speaking on them.

If Jesus told you to submit to your husband, you'd be finding a reason why it was wrong and why it didn't matter.


1) Please don't call me a drunk.

2) Please at least admit you don't disagree with the apostles of Christ for any other reason than that you don't like what they're saying (and what they're saying is that men are in charge in a marriage)

so why are you using a computer?


I was about to ask that, you rule today!

I was about to ask that, you rule today!

What a powerful argument. A computer.. yes, I had forgot about the minor nuiance of life. I suppose then, my answer would be because if Jesus were around he would be using one, but since that is the smart assed answer, I'll say because I want to.

But since a computer has nothing to do with religion and you won't box me in with a minor strawman argument, I'll get it back on topic and state that:

1--I did not call you a drunk, mayhaps you should actually read the words I spoke before assuming I did something I didn't.

2--Many men profess to speak for those in charge. It doesn't make what they spoke any more true or real, just because they are speaking in his name. In fact, I'm willing to bet there would be a lot of people in charge not in agreeance with those men who claim to speak for them. Some truly don't know what He would have wanted.

3--Archaic laws are just that--dead. Saying a Man belongs in charge of a marriage is going to do nothing but open up more than a can of worms and increase spousal abuse, divorce rates and the like. I would never marry a man who claimed to be solely in charge of the marriage. It is a 50/50 commitment. We both share our charge. Do I disagree with them on this? Hell yes I do. But there is lots I disagree with them on, not just marriage. Of course, like the subject of this thread, it is obvious I disagree with lots more than the words of mere men who think they are speaking for the one in charge.

What a powerful argument. A computer.. yes, I had forgot about the minor nuiance of life. I suppose then, my answer would be because if Jesus were around he would be using one, but since that is the smart assed answer, I'll say because I want to.
you said you wouldnt do something Jesus didnt do

Jesus didnt use a computer

then people can just say "if Jesus were around now, he would be fine with gay marriage". like im about to


if Jesus were around now, he would be fine with gay marriage


see?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Mary+Magdalene+prostitute

Both sides have good arguments, read it, it's pretty clear she had done something awful for a woman to do.

Luke 7:36-50 talks about her sin.

[Luke 8:2.16] and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out

This was the spot in Luke that actually mentions Mary Magdalene by name.

Your quote reads:

36Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. 37When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

It says "a woman," not Mary Magdalene.

This was the spot in Luke that actually mentions Mary Magdalene by name.

Your quote reads:



It says "a woman," not Mary Magdalene.


It's commonly accepted and is a 3rd century oral tradition, that the verse I cited, was about Mary Magdalene.

you said you wouldnt do something Jesus didnt do
Jesus didnt use a computer
then people can just say "if Jesus were around now, he would be fine with gay marriage". like im about to
if Jesus were around now, he would be fine with gay marriage
see?

Yes, absolutely. He would be and he'd not only be fine with it, he'd be more accepting and loving towards them.

Listen, if the kind of Christianity you are spouting is hatefilled and bigoted, I'll take my chances with hell by saying I will stand next to and with that gay person any day of the week over another "brother or sister" in Christ who spouts such vehemence. I do not want to be associated with Christians like you, nor do I want my kids.

The point is, that I would accept, love and affirm my child's love with the same sex becuase that is what Christ calls us, as Christians, to do. I will have nothing less.

It's commonly accepted and is a 3rd century oral tradition, that the verse I cited, was about Mary Magdalene.

Commonly, but not universally. Personally, I think the evidence to support it is rather slim. Rather convenient way to keep her from being accepted as an actual apostle of Jesus, rather than just a hanger-on, don't you think?

Commonly, but not universally. Personally, I think the evidence to support it is rather slim. Rather convenient way to keep her from being accepted as an actual apostle of Jesus, rather than just a hanger-on, don't you think?

I think I do need to apologize to Riverlund as I have made an error it seems is common. From http://www.magdalene.org/faq.htm (though not the definitive source of course, just one) the general theory has it that MM was considered a prostitute because, as Riverlund pointed out, no one wants to admit she was an apostle AND the consort to Christ.

So, I will amend my statement that she was a prostitute and withold further comment on that until I read further. After watching the Passion, I held the belief, the way Gibson portrayed her, that she wasn't a whore, but was, in fact, his companion, his love (without the loving), his right hand. That site gives some interesting read.

Why don't the two of you gay ones give me a puff before you throw that out? You raise your kids and I'll raise mine.
If you weren't interested in a real person's opinion, don't ask for it.

Curious... I thought you said you WOULDN'T raise the child...

Jesus didn't speak on many matters, so his disciples spoke on them as how they believed he would have, were he with them and speaking on them.

If Jesus told you to submit to your husband, you'd be finding a reason why it was wrong and why it didn't matter.


1) Please don't call me a drunk.

2) Please at least admit you don't disagree with the apostles of Christ for any other reason than that you don't like what they're saying (and what they're saying is that men are in charge in a marriage)

Jesus didn't speak on a matter MEANS that there is no 'word of christ' on that matter.

If there is no 'word of christ' on that matter, I don't see how it can be 'Christian' doctrine.

The way I see it, if you want to follow Pauline teachings, you should at least admit that you are Pauline, not Christian.

It's commonly accepted and is a 3rd century oral tradition, that the verse I cited, was about Mary Magdalene.

It was commonly accepted, also - that Jesus was an entirely human prophet.

I would treat them precisely the same as I would were they not gay.

I'd be concerned about how it affected his game.

What game would that be, LG?

Why, golf, of course!

As a gay man...

I want my sons to be straight and my daughters to be lesbians.
"Why?" I'm sure you're thinking.
It's quite simple. All men are insensitive, slutty bastards and I never want to have to deal with my child brining one home. Boys are stupid. Trust me, I'm in the business of knowing. :headbang:

He/She would not be treated any differently by me. So what if they like somebody of the same sex? I mean, who gives a flying fuck... Besides right-wing intolerants.

Well, I wouldn't like it, and I'd probably avoid them when they were with their BF or GF

but as far as how I'd treat them, I'd give them everything a parent would give their streight child

I think I would feel a bit sorry for them because even in our modern society, it's definitely not easy being gay, so I know they would be in for some rough times now and then.
I would be proud that they told me and proud that they decided to live as individuals rather than confrom with the norm and ending up lying to themselves.

I wouldn't treat them any different. Why should I? Many of my friends are gay/lesbians, and I myself am bisexual.

It's a cliche question, I know, but it must be asked. What would you do if your child came out to you as a homosexual one day?
Um... not a thing. Maybe nag him more about keeping a condom available when he goes out, or tell her to be more careful about the girls she picks up, and I'd make sure the kid had adequate self-defense training (but that's going on the plate for my kids regardless. It's a dangerous world, and all...).
I wouldn't say I would be supportive, in any case. I'm too cold a bastard for that, but condemnation is kind of useless in that situation-you can't "Un-Teach" what someone's hormones are telling them.

As a gay man...

I want my sons to be straight and my daughters to be lesbians.
"Why?" I'm sure you're thinking.
It's quite simple. All men are insensitive, slutty bastards and I never want to have to deal with my child brining one home. Boys are stupid. Trust me, I'm in the business of knowing. :headbang: That's really odd. We all know that girls are that way. ;)

Um… back to the question… well, I wouldn't really do anything. I mean, obviously I'd be rather surprised, as you would, but I wouldn't condemn them for something they can't help. I'd be happy if they didn't actually get sexually involved with those of their own sex though…

Um... not a thing. Maybe nag him more about keeping a condom available when he goes out, or tell her to be more careful about the girls she picks up, and I'd make sure the kid had adequate self-defense training (but that's going on the plate for my kids regardless. It's a dangerous world, and all...).
I wouldn't say I would be supportive, in any case. I'm too cold a bastard for that, but condemnation is kind of useless in that situation-you can't "Un-Teach" what someone's hormones are telling them.
Deffinatly .... you dont have to like their decision just recognize that ranting and raving wont change who they are in this situation. make sure they take care of themselfs and keep working twards a better future for themselfs

How's this. If my kids turn out to be straight, I'm going to ridicule them, tell them they made the wrong "choice", encourage them to sleep with people of the same gender to 'cure' them, and if all else fails? I'll kick them out of the house if they don't 'gay' up.

Or not.

That's really odd. We all know that girls are that way. ;)

Um… back to the question… well, I wouldn't really do anything. I mean, obviously I'd be rather surprised, as you would, but I wouldn't condemn them for something they can't help. I'd be happy if they didn't actually get sexually involved with those of their own sex though…

You'd be happy if they lived their lifes without sex??? Ever???
Boy, and I thought I was cruel...

I would leave my porn lying around everywhere (lesbian only of course, don't want them focusing on the guy) and "accidentally" make them watch it repeatedly.

If your child was gay, how would you treat them?

I would treat them like my child... with love, and respect. I would do everything in my power to help them acheive the future that they desire.

I would leave my porn lying around everywhere (lesbian only of course, don't want them focusing on the guy) and "accidentally" make them watch it repeatedly.

If you're kids are smart they'll switch the tape with one of their own... you might end up accidentally watching to gay guys :p

I'm surprised with some of you - how is your love for your child dependent on whether they are who you want them to be?

The only change would be that I'd probably be more over-protective/worried about them facing prejuduce and bigotry.

I wouldn't treat them any differently than if they were straight.

Well if my child was gay then I have found another thing to obsess about. I would probably use every technique that I could get away with to brainwash the kid to be straight. Eventually that child will do something to stop me from my attempts.

Well if my child was gay then I have found another thing to obsess about. I would probably use every technique that I could get away with to brainwash the kid to be straight. Eventually that child will do something to stop me from my attempts.
and rightfully so (him stoping you)

Well you know I have to make sure that my ideologies are passed on to the next generation as well as my genetics. Unfortunately for my children that means that I will be stricter with him than I would be with others. Really I view homosexuality as an abomination as it does not serve the purpose that I see sex as having(creation of offspring) and therefore is only a dangerous liability. However, back to the question once my gay offspring have grown up/ I have accepted the fact that I failed, then I will of course refuse to have any unnecessary dealings with them because such beliefs contrast so much to mine that we might as well be strangers.

Well you know I have to make sure that my ideologies are passed on to the next generation as well as my genetics. Unfortunately for my children that means that I will be stricter with him than I would be with others. Really I view homosexuality as an abomination as it does not serve the purpose that I see sex as having(creation of offspring) and therefore is only a dangerous liability. However, back to the question once my gay offspring have grown up/ I have accepted the fact that I failed, then I will of course refuse to have any unnecessary dealings with them because such beliefs contrast so much to mine that we might as well be strangers.
That’s fine you don’t have to like it… you will be short one son and depriving him of a good and loving father but that’s your right as a person.

I am sure he would go on to have a much less stressful and fulfilling life without having to follow directly in your footsteps

Well you know I have to make sure that my ideologies are passed on to the next generation as well as my genetics. Unfortunately for my children that means that I will be stricter with him than I would be with others. Really I view homosexuality as an abomination as it does not serve the purpose that I see sex as having(creation of offspring) and therefore is only a dangerous liability. However, back to the question once my gay offspring have grown up/ I have accepted the fact that I failed, then I will of course refuse to have any unnecessary dealings with them because such beliefs contrast so much to mine that we might as well be strangers.

In that case, you better never have children in the first place.

I do not like the pro-homosexual point of view and they do not like mine. Such is life, that being said I do not think I will ever have a child who is openly gay, maybe just one that is crazy like his old man.

In that case, you better never have children in the first place.

I concur.

Yes, please do not propogate your hateful ideologies into the world with brainwashed children.

I do not like the pro-homosexual point of view and they do not like mine. Such is life, that being said I do not think I will ever have a child who is openly gay, maybe just one that is crazy like his old man.

Yeah, that's what my parents thought. And they were blessed with a heterosexual son, a gay son and a bisexual daughter. And no matter how much they hate the fact, none of us ever saw a point in hiding anything in the small town we come from...
If you won't be able to accept ALL your child may turn aout to be, don't have one. You can raise your kids, but they will be independed persons, no matter how much you try to preach and beat that out of them, and they WILL do things you hate.
Such is life.

I do not like the pro-homosexual point of view and they do not like mine. Such is life, that being said I do not think I will ever have a child who is openly gay, maybe just one that is crazy like his old man.
Rather have a repressed gay son? rather then an open one? I personaly would love my kids enough that if they turn one way (even if I dont agree with it) I would rather they be honest with themselfs then repress it

Look I am from Texas, the big Red state. Compared to many other people there I would probably be a little more accepting. As well I figure that if my kids do not like what I do then they will stop listening to me, I mean that is what I did when I did not like what my parents had to say. Finally, I do not think that because homosexuals exist that I have to be alright with something like that existing in my children. Homosexuality in my mind seems similar to devil-worship. I do accept the fact that homosexuals exist and that I should not try to stop them from existing as such a task would be too difficult. However, morality is absolute and I have to make sure that my children are within the acceptable range of my morality, alright. They may have urges but how they deal with them counts.

Look I am from Texas, the big Red state. Compared to many other people there I would probably be a little more accepting. As well I figure that if my kids do not like what I do then they will stop listening to me, I mean that is what I did when I did not like what my parents had to say. Finally, I do not think that because homosexuals exist that I have to be alright with something like that existing in my children. Homosexuality in my mind seems similar to devil-worship. I do accept the fact that homosexuals exist and that I should not try to stop them from existing as such a task would be too difficult. However, morality is absolute and I have to make sure that my children are within the acceptable range of my morality, alright. They may have urges but how they deal with them counts.
I like how you called morality absolute then reffered to it as "my morality" which is a less then absolute more subjective description of it

I never said you have to like it but personaly My love for my children would over ride my distaste for their decision as an adult

Well ok I do not always use the best terms, so picking on my english skills is rather pointless and does not show a change in belief, as well morality is absolute but I only know morality from what I believe. Finally I tend to be a bit distant anyway, I do not require much socially to keep me sane. My child's belief would probably cause me to push away from them because I could probably never understand their decision.

Look I am from Texas, the big Red state. Compared to many other people there I would probably be a little more accepting. As well I figure that if my kids do not like what I do then they will stop listening to me, I mean that is what I did when I did not like what my parents had to say. Finally, I do not think that because homosexuals exist that I have to be alright with something like that existing in my children. Homosexuality in my mind seems similar to devil-worship. I do accept the fact that homosexuals exist and that I should not try to stop them from existing as such a task would be too difficult. However, morality is absolute and I have to make sure that my children are within the acceptable range of my morality, alright. They may have urges but how they deal with them counts.

Unfortunately, nobody can force parents to love their children. I keep wondering why such people would want to have kids in the first place. Do you really hope and expect they'll be exactly like you are?

One more thing about this morality issue : why would homosexual sex be immoral? It's between two constenting adults, nobody gets hurt, it is about love... I fail to see the immoral side about it.

My child's belief would probably cause me to push away from them because I could probably never understand their decision.

Sorry to point that out so harshly, but to me you don't sound like you were going to even try understanding....

Unfortunately, nobody can force parents to love their children. I keep wondering why such people would want to have kids in the first place. Do you really hope and expect they'll be exactly like you are?

One more thing about this morality issue : why would homosexual sex be immoral? It's between two constenting adults, nobody gets hurt, it is about love... I fail to see the immoral side about it.
A few inadaqite bible quotes and a general feeling of "icky" seem to be enough for some people

homosexuallity is immoral because it can not perform one of the most important duties of sex, which is production of children. As well sex is supposed to take place after marriage, homosexual marriage can not be accepted by most churches so therefore the sex can not be consecrated by God and becomes immoral. Ultimately it is immoral because it differs from both ideals, one of love between a man and woman consecrated by God that bears many children, and the ideal of abstinence until death because sexuallity is not something that everyone needs to embrace and is ultimately a privelege.

homosexuallity is immoral because it can not perform one of the most important duties of sex, which is production of children. As well sex is supposed to take place after marriage, homosexual marriage can not be accepted by most churches so therefore the sex can not be consecrated by God and becomes immoral. Ultimately it is immoral because it differs from both ideals, one of love between a man and woman consecrated by God that bears many children, and the ideal of abstinence until death because sexuallity is not something that everyone needs to embrace and is ultimately a privelege.

What about us atheists and other people who follow other faiths :D ?

You can't enforce your views on us!

homosexuallity is immoral because it can not perform one of the most important duties of sex, which is production of children. As well sex is supposed to take place after marriage, homosexual marriage can not be accepted by most churches so therefore the sex can not be consecrated by God and becomes immoral. Ultimately it is immoral because it differs from both ideals, one of love between a man and woman consecrated by God that bears many children, and the ideal of abstinence until death because sexuallity is not something that everyone needs to embrace and is ultimately a privelege.

So, using contraceptives is immoral as well? And two people who for whatever reasons cannot or don't want to have children should not be allowed to marry?
And once the woman is past the menopause, sex is out of the question as well?

And sexuality is not a privilege, it's a natural urge. For men, it's even a necessity (well, that or masturbation. Or face wet dreams now and then)
Sex is important for our metabolism and it's even more important for our psychological health and balance.
Repressing urges that might cause harm to others is comendable, but repressing urges out of an unnatural and unsocial understanding of morality is insane.

homosexuallity is immoral because it can not perform one of the most important duties of sex, which is production of children. As well sex is supposed to take place after marriage, homosexual marriage can not be accepted by most churches so therefore the sex can not be consecrated by God and becomes immoral. Ultimately it is immoral because it differs from both ideals, one of love between a man and woman consecrated by God that bears many children, and the ideal of abstinence until death because sexuallity is not something that everyone needs to embrace and is ultimately a privelege.
In a bit of irony I feel like using the traditional religious arguments

“We are more then or biology we have free will to couple or not to do so with whomever we are attracted to because of this amazing ability to choose our future. If I am naturally attracted to males I will use this amazing god given gift of free will to rise beyond animal urges to procreate”

damn now that’s ironical

If I had a child and that child was homosexual, it would just mean some minor adjustments from raising a heterosexual child.

"The Sex Talk" would certainly be somewhat different when it came to...mechanical...things. :D

You'd be happy if they lived their lifes without sex??? Ever???
Boy, and I thought I was cruel... Yep, you're pretty much right. It's not hard.

It's a cliche question, I know, but it must be asked. What would you do if your child came out to you as a homosexual one day?
If my hypothetical child came out to me, then I would be happy that they saw me as someone they could open up to. I would also treat them pretty much the same as a straight kid. Encourage them to find a partner and then talk about getting a surrogate/sperm donor so I could have some grandkids. :D

"The Sex Talk" would certainly be somewhat different when it came to...mechanical...things. :D
Yeah, I would probably have to pass that off to someone else...

Yeah, I would probably have to pass that off to someone else...

I'm lucky enough to have responsible gay friends who would probably offer to give the talk for me, but I figure I can do that myself, so why bother?

My first response would be "This is going to impede my quest for grandkids, isn't it?"

:D

My first response would be "This is going to impede my quest for grandkids, isn't it?"

:D If you have lots of kids, they probably won't all be gay, so you can still have your grandchildren!

EDIT: I'm not saying that you should have other kids because the gay one was "inadequate". Just have lots of kids generally. :)

No child of mine would turn out gay - I'd raise them right and teach them the correct core morals.

And, what correct core morals would those be? Children do not "turn out gay", they're born that way. BTW, part of me has a very UnChristian-like thought that I hope one of your children is gay, which would show you how narrow-minded you are, but the other part of me realizes that a gay child of yours would probably become a sad statistic.

If one of my children turned out gay, I'd ask myself, "well, that's quite interesting. I didn't know swordfighting could result in babies." That and support them, naturally.

I would disown them, or at least set the hunting dogs on them, give the foxes a break for about half an hour.

I would first let my son know that I love him as my son but hate what he does. If you truly love your child and have an ounce of Christianity in your body , you can not condone acts considered an abomination before God. You are using the temple of God (your body) for acts it was not intended for .

FYI , I say son because I have no daughters....

Can we please let this over done topic die? It's been done about 400000000 times before, so we are all aware of those who wouldn't care, and christians!

And before you attack, I am aware there are other people who wouldn't want their children to be gay, and aren't christian. Either way, if it's the biggest thing you can come up with to concentrate on, you need a hobby.

Can we please let this over done topic die? It's been done about 400000000 times before, so we are all aware of those who wouldn't care, and christians!

And before you attack, I am aware there are other people who wouldn't want their children to be gay, and aren't christian. Either way, if it's the biggest thing you can come up with to concentrate on, you need a hobby.

Some of us post on the General forum as our hobby. How about that? :D

And by the way, there are also people (me for example) who are Christian but would still show compassionate and reasonable care to a gay child.

Can we please let this over done topic die? It's been done about 400000000 times before, so we are all aware of those who wouldn't care, and christians!

And before you attack, I am aware there are other people who wouldn't want their children to be gay, and aren't christian. Either way, if it's the biggest thing you can come up with to concentrate on, you need a hobby.
I know an absolute tonne of Christians who are liberal and accepting of me. I also know a tonne of Atheist/Agnostic homophobes. Small-mindedness doesn't neccesarily equate to religious.

If I had a child who was gay I'd treat them the same. Stupid not to, specially when you've gone to all the effort of raising a child.

I would first let my son know that I love him as my son but hate what he does. If you truly love your child and have an ounce of Christianity in your body , you can not condone acts considered an abomination before God. You are using the temple of God (your body) for acts it was not intended for .

FYI , I say son because I have no daughters....

Funny... the human body was never intended to fly, either. So you would call Delta Air an abomination before god?
And the human body was intended to be nacked... you're a nudist?

when you think about all the people in this world that are gay (I bet there are at least 10) and all the people that would turn away from their children if they found out they were gay, then there must be tons of gay guys with no parental love. :( how sad *cry*

There are a couple people in my family that are gay and my entire family embraces them and loves them no matter what. Well I do have one bigotted family member that is racist and homophobic but nobody likes him so he doesn't count.

Like any of my children the love and and the help I could give them. If they are happy, I'm happy

when you think about all the people in this world that are gay (I bet there are at least 10) and all the people that would turn away from their children if they found out they were gay, then there must be tons of gay guys with no parental love. :( how sad *cry*

There are a couple people in my family that are gay and my entire family embraces them and loves them no matter what. Well I do have one bigotted family member that is racist and homophobic but nobody likes him so he doesn't count.

I like your family :fluffle:

Mine is more or less the other way round... :(

I like your family :fluffle:

Mine is more or less the other way round... :(


well then consider yoruself adopted into my family. no paperwork required

<3

you can not condone acts considered an abomination before God. You are using the temple of God (your body) for acts it was not intended for

Hmm. I'm keen to know where God forbids homosexuality, certainly not in the Old Testament, and it's not attributed to Christ. Paul has a few words to say, but he's hardly the greatest authority. As for your body being God's Temple, Christ would certainly not have considered that to be the case.

I'm not planning on having kids - irrelevent *g*

Although... if being gay is environmental, how would that explain me being a raging dyke (Mardi Gras on Saturday YAY!) and my brother being straight as a ruler? We're not genetically identical (obviously!) but we DID have the EXACT same upbringing.

Okay, maybe not exact. My brother was treated like a tough little boy, and I was treated like a delicate little girl. My father's fairly conservative (thankfully his sorry arse is out the door) and my Mum's more open-minded but not particularly militant in her views. I always had plenty of dresses and dolls. So I should be straight... right? ;)

Sounds to me like you screwed up your family's little Ozzie and Harriet lifestyle! How dare you turn out gay when your wonderful conservative father and understanding mother did everything in their power to make you straight! [/scarcasm] :headbang:

Romans 11:7, only the Elect aren't blinded to the truth of God (The doctrine of Grace). If you're Elect, then at one point or another in your life, you will be drawn irresistibly, by God, to accept the 5 points of Calvinism, repent, and be saved. If you are hostile to the 5 points, that is a powerful sign that God has predestinated you for a state of reprobation, rather than election. I hope that answers the first part of your question.

Secondly, I've been told by numerous psychologists that the way to get your kid to be a mirror image of you, is just to rough them up around age 2-4, when their youthful ego is most fragile. I'd have no way of knowing by age 4 if the kid was gay, so that wouldn't work.

But if beating a 15-16 year old, would achieve the result of beating the gayness out of them, and making them be straight, I'd surely do it. I'd tire my arms and hands out beating them. But I don't believe you can beat anybody into being one-way or the other.

I believe that if you are gay, it's a sign of total reprobation in the eyes of God, and there is not an ounce of hope for you. (Let us remember, that Mary Magdalene, a woman who was a prostitute, would likely be called a Reprobate, but she was pulled out of the life of sin she was in, because it so pleased God to pull her out, as a demonstration of His mercy for some. Although remember, it was God to begin with, who willed her into that life of sin, because it so pleased Him to do so. God will make some people awful sinners, just to make their redemption and realization of Election, all the more stunning and demonstrative of His infinite mercy for a finite number of people)

I hope that answers your questions.


I have to say that I just LOVE it when someone misquotes the Bible. It really makes me a happy camper! I get a chance to let everyone know the correct quote...From the 21st Century King James version, 11:7 - 8/

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded, 8according as it is written: "God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this day."


Where does it say in that complete quote that you need to accept some other doctrine? Also, where does it state that gay people aren't the elect? Afterall, Jesus said (Matthew 5:11-12):

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Now, since most people invoke Jesus and Christianity as the reason to discriminate against gays, to whom else do you think Jesus could be referring? He knew the day would come when His name would be invoked to harm some of His children.

I am so sorry for the right-wing Christians. I pray for them, as they need all the love and care the rest of us can give them. Their crosses are very heavy to carry, as being self-righteous must weigh hard upon them. So, VoteEarly, I will be sure to say a prayer for you that our Lord and Savior will open your eyes to His truth and to the beauty and freedom from hatred. Your cross is so laden with hatred it must be very hard to carry. I will pray that God will lift the burden of detestation from you, so that your cross load will be lighten.

Oh, one final message I must pass on... Mary Magdelene was NOT a prostitute. There is no biblical evidence to suggest such a thing and even the Catholic Church has reversed the prostitute lie.

God Bless.

I have to say that I just LOVE it when someone misquotes the Bible. It really makes me a happy camper! I get a chance to let everyone know the correct quote...From the 21st Century King James version, 11:7 - 8/

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded, 8according as it is written: "God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear, unto this day."


Where does it say in that complete quote that you need to accept some other doctrine? Also, where does it state that gay people aren't the elect? Afterall, Jesus said (Matthew 5:11-12):

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Now, since most people invoke Jesus and Christianity as the reason to discriminate against gays, to whom else do you think Jesus could be referring? He knew the day would come when His name would be invoked to harm some of His children.

I am so sorry for the right-wing Christians. I pray for them, as they need all the love and care the rest of us can give them. Their crosses are very heavy to carry, as being self-righteous must weigh hard upon them. So, VoteEarly, I will be sure to say a prayer for you that our Lord and Savior will open your eyes to His truth and to the beauty and freedom from hatred. Your cross is so laden with hatred it must be very hard to carry. I will pray that God will lift the burden of detestation from you, so that your cross load will be lighten.

Oh, one final message I must pass on... Mary Magdelene was NOT a prostitute. There is no biblical evidence to suggest such a thing and even the Catholic Church has reversed the prostitute lie.

God Bless.


Just a hint (because of this gravedigged topic) that poster was deated months ago

(also a calvanist if that modifies your arguement)

Well you know I have to make sure that my ideologies are passed on to the next generation as well as my genetics. Unfortunately for my children that means that I will be stricter with him than I would be with others. Really I view homosexuality as an abomination as it does not serve the purpose that I see sex as having(creation of offspring) and therefore is only a dangerous liability. However, back to the question once my gay offspring have grown up/ I have accepted the fact that I failed, then I will of course refuse to have any unnecessary dealings with them because such beliefs contrast so much to mine that we might as well be strangers.

So, if you believe that sex is only for procreation -- you NEVER have sex with the intent of NOT procreating? Is that true? There is no birth control used in your home and when your wife -- if you're male, I didn't look at your profile -- can no longer have children -- you will no longer participate in the act of sex.

Am I correct?

I'm guessing that I'm not correct.

I'm straight but I know that if I was gay there's no way I could ever tell my dad. He'd go completely beserk, socially he's ultra-conservative. I remember when we were in London before there was a gay pride parade going on. He was going on about how disgusting it was that these 'faggots' and 'perverts' were flaunting their sexuality and kissing in public. Throughout my childhood he's always reacted angry to percived 'sissy' behaviour and has always aimed to toughen me up. I doubt he'd go as far as disowning me, but he'd be disgusted and I couldn't see our relationship ever being the same again.

I think my mum would be more tolerant. But she's also pretty dependant on my dad so I'm not sure how she'd be.

If I had a son and he was gay I wouldn't be pleased. This is because of all the prejudice and hardship he'd face in his life. But I'd know that there's nothing that can be done about it and I'd just love him for who he is.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

I liked that quote :)

Am I correct?

I'm guessing that I'm not correct.

I'm guessing you like your writing? :D

Just a hint (because of this gravedigged topic) that poster was deated months ago

(also a calvanist if that modifies your arguement)

Well, that bites, because I just wasted a really good argument! :p

I'm guessing you like your writing? :D

Well, it's been a slow day at work and I just stumbled upon this topic. :rolleyes:

But, I do like to listen to myself talk -- or is it read what I've written?

Well, it's been a slow day at work and I just stumbled upon this topic. :rolleyes:

But, I do like to listen to myself talk -- or is it read what I've written?

lol I meant the font and the colour, you don't usually see it :)

Well, that bites, because I just wasted a really good argument! :p
Well he is no longer among us lol too much trolling

If my kid was gay I would lock him back in the closet, take an automatic machine-gun, and fire at will at the closet. That would make sure he'd never come out again.

Troll ? Yes

Puppet ? Probably

Idiot ? Certainly

If my kid was gay I would lock him back in the closet, take an automatic machine-gun, and fire at will at the closet. That would make sure he'd never come out again.
I hope you never have children

no differently. at the end of the day, your child is still your child no matter who (or in some cases what lol) they decide to have sex with!

I'd ponder: How did I have a child?

I would treat my kids the same as any straight kids.

This doesn't mean, however, that in my opinion homosexuality is something that is "normal". See, we all enjoy and love sex just as much as the next guy - but we all realize that the basic biological function of sex (and even the reason why we enjoy it so much) is purely for reproduction.

So.. I'm all for Gay Rights. Should they get married? Sure, why not. Have kids? It's up to them. If they find a faulty gene responsible for this and a painless, working "cure" to set them straight (Sorry, I just had to. :p), then I would encourage my children to go forward with it. I would reason with them, and explain that I believe that homosexuality isn't a moral wrong, but that I consider it an inherent personal dysfunction - much like a port-wine stain or any other birth dysfunction (note I am not calling it a defect. Too strong a word for what I consider homosexuality). A painless "cure" for homosexuality would be a great idea, if nothing else but to give gays the option to become straight if they so desired. Just as there are sex-change operations, the option for sexual orientation changes should also be available (including the straight man wanting to go gay).

It should also be noted that I consider myself, at least in some way, bi-curious and was born to and raised by a wonderful, gay mother. I have more than a few gay friends. I came out just fine. I still, however, believe that being "straight" is more biologically "normal" than homosexuality.

I'd still love my kids and treat them just as well as any kid. It really woulnd't be a huge issue - but it treatment were 'available' as I mentioned before, I'd let them know and talk to them about that if it were the case. If they are happy with the way they are, then that is enough for me.

See, we all enjoy and love sex just as much as the next guy - but we all realize that the basic biological function of sex (and even the reason why we enjoy it so much) is purely for reproduction.
I can assure you, reproduction is not why I (or a great many other people) enjoy sex.

If they find a faulty gene responsible for this and a painless, working "cure" to set them straight (Sorry, I just had to. :p), then I would encourage my children to go forward with it.
If they ever do, it would be administered in utero not something that could be turned on and off in adult life, that's not hwo it works.

I can assure you, reproduction is not why I (or a great many other people) enjoy sex.

Of course not. I didn't say it was the 'sole' purpose of sex. I said, in short, that while we all love sex ('cause sex rocks the casbah, of course), we also realize the inherent biological reasons for it being there for us. Reproduction.

The day I'm bonin' away and something (like the kitchen table or something) and I start yelling, "Yeah, baby! Bring on the children!" is the day I stop having sex. That, or get my penis fixed after boning the table.

If they ever do, it would be administered in utero not something that could be turned on and off in adult life, that's not hwo it works.

The example I gave of some sort of "treatment" was there, not as a scientific example, but simply an example to help illustrate my feelings on the subject. Sort of like, "Unhappy with your *insert something that you are born with that makes you unhappy*? Then lets get this going then!"

I'd say " don't you have enough problems? and not that you will listen to me, but I know a good psychologist"

If it were a son, I wouldn't act any differently.

If it were a daughter, I'd probably be a little more relieved that she wouldn't be dating guys like me anymore. :)


But wouldn't it worry you that your son would now be dating those guys whom you feared so much would end up with your daughter?

Well ok my last post was a bit extreme I sometimes can be. Anyway I view homosexuality as immoral and I view sex itself as only moral with God's permission. I would treat a homosexual child as different and that child would suffer a different father/child relationship than if they were straight due to the fact that I would not be able to forget the fact that they sin by choice and yes I believe that homosexuality is mostly a choice. Perhaps I expressed a view point a bit extreme in my last post, a bit more extreme than what I actually believe, but to a certain extent those are my beliefs.

My parents were disappointed when they found out I was in a heterosexual relationship. They were hoping I would be a lesbian, because then I would be protected against unwanted pregnancy and would have a much lower chance of getting any kind of STD.

Just responding to the original post here, there are two many to read through at this point.

If my child was gay I wouldn't treat them any differently. If, by that stage I have the same obsession with having grandchildren my mother does now, I might be mildly disapointed, but there are ways for gay people to have children if they want, and by the time any kid of mine would be ready to do so there'll probably be even more technology available to help. Of course I hope I'd love my kids whether they have kids of their own or not.

How would I treat a gay child?

What sort of fucking question is that?

Like the apple of my fucking eye - same as if they were straight.

The simple fact is that my kids are - at certain point in their life - going to have sex, fall in love, get their hearts broken, break the heart of someone else, and hopefully find that special person that treats them like the most important person on the fucking planet. I will dissaprove of some of thier choices, and approve of others. All I can hope for is that they don't get too fucking hurt along the way.

And regardless of who that other person is who fulfills my kids every dream, they will be welcome at the dinner table with me. and regardless of who that person is, I don't want details of thir sex life.


If I DO hope that my kids are straight, it is only because I wouldn't want them to have to deal with all the small-minded bigots that will go out of their way to make their lives tougher than it needs to be. Because damnit - it's tough enough out there. But if they are, they are, and I will always be someone to tell them that it's OK, that it makes no fucking difference to me, and to have their back against the assholes of the world.

If I DO hope that my kids are straight, it is only because I wouldn't want them to have to deal with all the small-minded bigots that will go out of their way to make their lives tougher than it needs to be. Because damnit - it's tough enough out there. But if they are, they are, and I will always be someone to tell them that it's OK, that it makes no fucking difference to me, and to have their back against the assholes of the world.

Huzzah! Well said!

If my kid turns out to be gay I will heave a great sigh of relief...I will be far better suited to handle his lifestyle than if he were straight. Unless he's a she. I don't get lesbians. I mean I have no problem with lesbians, I just have zero commonality with them. I suppose having a lesbian daughter would be an excellent growth experience for me though, it would force my horizons to expand. Conversations that do not involve a penis might be novel.