NationStates Jolt Archive

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so.

A great time of tribulation rocked the world, such that the leaders of the world were occupied with war and internal strife in their nations. Their populaces rose openly and slaughtered each other in civil conflict. Great cities became devoid of life and they became shells of their former glory. For in their glory they had become arrogant and mocked God, and God mocked them back. For God is not one to take lightly those who mock Him. As the Lord, Jesus Christ said, "Who so mocketh the Son of Man, he may be forgiven, but who so mocketh the Holy Spirit, he shall not be forgiven."

Plague and famine swept the land such that not even the rich were safe; their wealth and trappings were all for naught, for in the end they too would perish. They had become prisoners in their own homes, relying solely on their wealth to afford hired soldiers to defend their lavish estates from the army of peasant rabble arrayed against them.

It was on this backdrop that the beast did appear. Inhuman and fiendish, standing tall over man, lies pouring from his mouth, lies to seduce mankind. And of the majority of the world, reduced to their basest urges and instincts, did the mass of mankind follow this beast, this seducer, and this liar, into battle against God's people.

The number of God's people was fewer than 300, the number of the army of the beast was such that they could not be counted if one was to spend an entire century just counting them. This was for the single battle that was ready to be fought. But the beast was also gathering together his armies from all corners of the world, gathering them together to attack the Elect on all fronts.

The Elect of God took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

For the lord had commanded his people, as is written in Luke 22:36, to gather weapons. The purpose of that became clear on this day, the arsenals they had amassed would be used against the armies of demons the beast had recruited from the reprobate of the world.

The weather had turned into a nightmare, snowing and raining, with a red-hot sun beating down at the same time. Scorching and freezing simultaneously, all who dared venture outside into the maelstrom that God had sent forth to destroy the cities of man, the idols man had built to himself, shunning and mocking God. But now God did mock man.

Then the beast let out a cry such that it carried to all his armies, the sounds of the cry were clear, the attack was ordered to begin. God’s people readied themselves for the confrontation that was at hand.

The beast was invulnerable to anything that man attempted to do to stop him. No efforts of any man would even harm him. The masses of his army though, were not invulnerable, and many tens of thousands and indeed millions, fell before the people of God.

As it became evident that the people of God were about to be overwhelmed, their fortress compromised and on the verge of collapse, their prayers were answered by God Himself. Legions of angels came down from heaven and totally destroyed the army of the beast that had surrounded the fortress of God’s people.

The beast had therefore lost the first of the great battles, and was in retreat, to continue plaguing the Earth until such time as God hath predestinated, that he shall be totally and utterly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with all his army of demon worshippers and those who were not ordained.

Which chapter is that in?

Which chapter is that in?


This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.

if there is anybody out there who doesn't find this thread's founding post amazingly hillarious, here's a special trick to help you find the humor:

replace "God" with "Eddie The Naughty Gnome."

that's how that post reads, for an agnostic. :)

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.

How do you know that wasn't a reaction from last nights dinner?

Had an MRI lately?

;)

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.

Oh.

Okay, dear. Time to put down the CBN books and take your Seroquel and Xanax.

Rev 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

Good luck with that, VoteEarly.

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.
Ah, one of those. Best of luck with that.

Rev 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.

Good luck with that, VoteEarly.



1 Corinthians 14:30-32
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


1 Corinthians 14:37-40
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.

Keep thinking that, VoteEarly *calls the loony house to find their newest resident*

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so.

A great time of tribulation rocked the world, such that the leaders of the world were occupied with war and internal strife in their nations. Their populaces rose openly and slaughtered each other in civil conflict. Great cities became devoid of life and they became shells of their former glory. For in their glory they had become arrogant and mocked God, and God mocked them back. For God is not one to take lightly those who mock Him. As the Lord, Jesus Christ said, "Who so mocketh the Son of Man, he may be forgiven, but who so mocketh the Holy Spirit, he shall not be forgiven."

Plague and famine swept the land such that not even the rich were safe; their wealth and trappings were all for naught, for in the end they too would perish. They had become prisoners in their own homes, relying solely on their wealth to afford hired soldiers to defend their lavish estates from the army of peasant rabble arrayed against them.

It was on this backdrop that the beast did appear. Inhuman and fiendish, standing tall over man, lies pouring from his mouth, lies to seduce mankind. And of the majority of the world, reduced to their basest urges and instincts, did the mass of mankind follow this beast, this seducer, and this liar, into battle against God's people.

The number of God's people was fewer than 300, the number of the army of the beast was such that they could not be counted if one was to spend an entire century just counting them. This was for the single battle that was ready to be fought. But the beast was also gathering together his armies from all corners of the world, gathering them together to attack the Elect on all fronts.

The Elect of God took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

For the lord had commanded his people, as is written in Luke 22:36, to gather weapons. The purpose of that became clear on this day, the arsenals they had amassed would be used against the armies of demons the beast had recruited from the reprobate of the world.

The weather had turned into a nightmare, snowing and raining, with a red-hot sun beating down at the same time. Scorching and freezing simultaneously, all who dared venture outside into the maelstrom that God had sent forth to destroy the cities of man, the idols man had built to himself, shunning and mocking God. But now God did mock man.

Then the beast let out a cry such that it carried to all his armies, the sounds of the cry were clear, the attack was ordered to begin. God’s people readied themselves for the confrontation that was at hand.

The beast was invulnerable to anything that man attempted to do to stop him. No efforts of any man would even harm him. The masses of his army though, were not invulnerable, and many tens of thousands and indeed millions, fell before the people of God.

As it became evident that the people of God were about to be overwhelmed, their fortress compromised and on the verge of collapse, their prayers were answered by God Himself. Legions of angels came down from heaven and totally destroyed the army of the beast that had surrounded the fortress of God’s people.

The beast had therefore lost the first of the great battles, and was in retreat, to continue plaguing the Earth until such time as God hath predestinated, that he shall be totally and utterly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with all his army of demon worshippers and those who were not ordained.
Very interesting...er..may your god be with you then.

Why are you here? Jack Chick is calling. He is old and not long for this world and needs someone new to take up his mantle.

That is ... unless you *are* Jack Chick ... hrmmm.

Weren't you the one who said you couldn't pick and choose amongst the Bible verses in a previous thread? You must embrace them all!

Why don't you very quietly work on that - and then forget to get back to us with your conclusions.

Smacks of schizophrenia...

Weren't you the one who said you couldn't pick and choose amongst the Bible verses in a previous thread? You must embrace them all!

Why don't you very quietly work on that - and then forget to get back to us with your conclusions.


Rev 22:18

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book


To be fair, I add nothing to John's revelations, I am merely telling you MY revelations. I claim them not to be additions to John's.

The night before 9-11, I had a dream that 9-11 was going to happen.
I have also had dreams of the "end times" very different than the Bible tells...

Guess I'm the next prophet! :p

When did this happen.

So, if this all led to the end of the world, does that mean evil won? Damn, who wants to be on God's side, then? Thanks for notifying us, I'll go worship Satan now.

When did this happen.


Several years ago.

I was also informed of the exact date that the genocide crisis in Sudan would erupt into the center of the world media, well ahead of time.

I have also been informed of the coming war in South Africa, German South-West Africa, and Rhodesia.

I have seen visions where flowers drip red oozing blood, fields of flowers, dripping red with blood.

The future is one of war, death, and total destruction of the world.

Several years ago.

I was also informed of the exact date that the genocide crisis in Sudan would erupt into the center of the world media, well ahead of time.

I have also been informed of the coming war in South Africa, German South-West Africa, and Rhodesia.

I have seen visions where flowers drip red oozing blood, fields of flowers, dripping red with blood.

The future is one of war, death, and total destruction of the world.

*backs slowly away from screen*

What else?

What else?



My conversion from spiritual darkness, into the graces of God is one of divine inspiration as well. A spirtiually blind man was I, but God opened my eyes and drew me unto Him that I might be saved. And the Grace of God proved, as it is, irresistible, and I was drawn to Him, and became aware of my Election.

(Basically, I gained my faith in a moment of divine inspiration where the grace of God came down upon me and was burnt into my very soul, providing me with comfort and warmth as I became aware of my special place, my name was indeed in the Book of Life, my Election)

What else?


War is going to erupt across the globe, on a scale so massive it shall make the First and Second World Wars seem like child's play. Imagine all the nations of the world, save for less than a dozen, at war with each other, over resources and scarce food.

God is sending down famine upon us, and plague, which will sweep the Earth and make man kill man just to find the daily necessities to survive. But it shall come to nothing, for in the end most of mankind is doomed.

Blasphemy.

I have also been informed of the coming war in South Africa, German South-West Africa, and Rhodesia.

Race war? Who wins? When?

Race war? Who wins? When?


Boer and Afrikaners, within the next decade, the exact date was quite likely revealed to the great seer, but not being him, I don't know that date. And his writings were all in Afrikaans anyway, a language I don't know very well (yet).

Several years ago.


Or about the time you watched the Lord of the Rings.

Is it just me or does this just sound like a regurgitated version of the that last battle scene, just replace angels with "riders of Rohan."

Boer and Afrikaners, within the next decade, the exact date was quite likely revealed to the great seer, but not being him, I don't know that date. And his writings were all in Afrikaans anyway, a language I don't know very well (yet).
Those wars already happened.

Those wars already happened.


This is the new war coming, the final war for Boer Nation, once and for all time, to secure the Boer in their ancestral and God ordained lands.

(Basically, I gained my faith in a moment of divine inspiration where the grace of God came down upon me and was burnt into my very soul, providing me with comfort and warmth as I became aware of my special place, my name was indeed in the Book of Life, my Election)

Hrmmm ... so you require a revelation of destruction, violence, death, and white power to find God, eh? Zany.

I, too, had a deep spiritual revelation which brought me to Islam.

I won't share it here, though. It would become tainted by your inability to see all of Allah's creation as beautiful.

I had a dream where an animated mermaid barbie (Before they actually MADE them) was eaten by a giant lantern fish, such that its teeth were like a jail cell.

Clearly, Jesus has spoken to me.

Woe unto thee, Mermaid Barbie, beware the Lantern Fish!

And then there was the money-green, claymation dream where a swan turned in to a nun and got stuck in a pillar of clay, which I also got stuck in...

And then there was me saving He-Man and my kindergarten class by deflecting the sorceress's spell back at her with a ceder branch...

So watch out for Mermaids, Lantern Fish, Money-Green Clay Wereswan Nuns, and He-Man wearing Ceder Branch Armor... for some day, the ball of electricity in my front yard that caused the VHS tapes to melt in my dream will come to take us all...

Or, you know, a dream could be a dream.

I, too, had a deep spiritual revelation which brought me to Islam.

I won't share it here, though. It would become tainted by your inability to see all of Allah's creation as beautiful.

Out of respectful curiosity, I would love to hear your story.

This is the new war coming, the final war for Boer Nation, once and for all time, to secure the Boer in their ancestral and God ordained lands.
It's not "their ancestral land" at all. If it belongs to anyone ancestrally it's to the Khoisan. But more logically, it belongs to all the peoples of South Africa. (everyone, Khoisan, Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, Indian, Boer, Anglo. EVERYONE)

It's not "their ancestral land" at all. If it belongs to anyone ancestrally it's to the Khoisan. But more logically, it belongs to all the peoples of South Africa. (everyone, Khoisan, Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho, Indian, Boer, Anglo. EVERYONE)
The Boers just killed many off the natives off and colonized it.

Well, I'm not going to flat out say you're delusional, but I don't think you're right. If what you're predicting happens when you say it will, then perhaps, but right now, as far as I'm concerned, your dreams are worth no more than mine. Sorry.

Paint chips and milk is not for breakfast anymore.

The Boers just killed many of the natives off and colonized it.
Yup, them and the British. And the British basically enslaved my ancestors to work in the cane fields and coal mines. Nice, huh? :p

Well, not much imagination so i'd rate it a C-. At least you had word count though.
Kinda flat as a love story (battlefront buggery?), not much character development ....
i really couldn't "get into it" .... kind of a bumpy read, with apparently a strong requirement of the reader to suspend disbelief.
How 'bout "My Pet Goat" instead, for the other novices here? It flows better, and has more (poignant) historic accuracy.

Out of respectful curiosity, I would love to hear your story.

Perhaps I will make a thread of my own. Perhaps. But not now.

We now know that VoteEarly is officially a troll. Either that, or he's insane.

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.

Good for you!

I have also been informed of the coming war in South Africa.

'Coming' war? Seems like they're already in the middle of one to me.

'Coming' war? Seems like they're already in the middle of one to me.


I mean when the mass of the Boer rise up openly and stop tolerating the undeclared war. When the Boer declare war and retaliate, the whole of the world shall tremble before the might of a resurgent South Africa.

Perhaps I will make a thread of my own. Perhaps. But not now.

If so, I look forward to it! If not, I would love to hear your story anyhow over an IM program or something. I just like hearing people's stories in regards to their experiences with religion. I guess it's one reason I'm studying Sociology.

What are you drinking and or smoking. Whatever it is I want some! :)

Thank you for adding another case study to the already jam-packed collective of religous whackjob psychopatholgy.

It think you need to be probed.

I mean when the mass of the Boer rise up openly and stop tolerating the undeclared war. When the Boer declare war and retaliate, the whole of the world shall tremble before the might of a resurgent South Africa.

www.africancrisis.org/ph_adapt.asp

What are you drinking and or smoking. Whatever it is I want some! :)

"There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge...."

I mean when the mass of the Boer rise up openly and stop tolerating the undeclared war. When the Boer declare war and retaliate, the whole of the world shall tremble before the might of a resurgent South Africa.
It would just be a civil war and probably wouldn't last long. There would be pressure from the international community.

"There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge...."

You have obviously never had a cold one after eight hours of flying. ;)

Thank you for adding another case study to the already jam-packed collective of religous whackjob psychopatholgy.

It think you need to be probed.
Or as Homer pointed out to Ned Flanders ....

*gang-probed*

(on walk back from Vegas the wholesome center of US of A, after polygamy!)
:fluffle: :gundge:

oooooook....now I've seen it all.

Dear God,
Please save me from your followers.

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God....Blah blah blah.Yeah whatever, I had more relevent and probable revelations the last time I dropped acid.


God told me then he was just joking when he told man that 'created in his own image' crap.

He said it was a mistake infering that he was actually anything like 'those egotistical self-important hairless monkeys'.

He said the dolphins were actually created closer to his image.

No more pizza before bed for you.

Hmm. God 'gifted' you with a bleak, depressing, wholly unoriginal and pointless 'vision' which takes the form of a few narrative paragraphs written in pseudo-Biblical prose on an online forum?

Damn, you got shafted.

God gifted ME with a GIANT PENIS.

[puts on sententious mein] Well I'm glad that you have had such an intimate interaction with your divinity.[takes off said face]

However that said, I seriously doubt that it was the product of divine interaction - perhaps the interaction of too much spicy food, over the counter nostrums mixing with your prescribed meds...

oh! I know it was swamp gas!

( How about over depth/ time hard hat diving then flying a small plane some 12 hundred miles, getting drunk just in time for the bends to hit...I walked my friend through some doozies of hallucinations during that episode, though none were so grandiose as VoteEarly's )

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.
Kids, say no to drugs.

Having just Watched Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas yesterday, I find this this officially hilarious.

kinda sounds like the Russian Revolution.

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so...

Sounds a lot like the Viking Ragnarok.

Which is funny because before the election I prayed to Thor to take Dubya out and Loki revealed unto me
I. sorry, but Evil and Fire are in charge right now and I say that my boy's gettin in.
II. What? I'm evil.
III. It's my friggin job kid. No use prayin' about it.
IV. I KNOW it's gonna get me tied to a big tree with acid burning my face off but it's not like I'm the god of bein' a reasonable well intentioned young man now is it?
V. Look if it makes ya feel any better we're at the bit where Hod just got killed for killing Balder.
VI. What did you think the whole Carter bit was?
VII. Yes, the tech bubble was the bit where people thought that everyone would cry for Balder, but I didn't, then it burst.
VIII. Shit! I didn't think this through did I?
IV. Well why're you just bringing this shit up with me now?
X. Sure you WANTED to talk to Thor, but how's that going to happen when you're being clever.
XI. Gotta be angry to talk to that big Ox.
XII. Don't go laughing at ME smart guy, we're all going down the same toilet.
XIII. Gotta go, got stuff to take care of, maybe if I turn into a salmon...
Thus spake Loki.

^^ The sounds of cats laughing at Loki...Salmon

It's what's for dinner...

Sounds a lot like the Viking Ragnarok.

Which is funny because before the election I prayed to Thor to take Dubya out and Loki revealed unto me
I. sorry, but Evil and Fire are in charge right now and I say that my boy's gettin in.
II. What? I'm evil.
III. It's my friggin job kid. No use prayin' about it.
IV. I KNOW it's gonna get me tied to a big tree with acid burning my face off but it's not like I'm the god of bein' a reasonable well intentioned young man now is it?
V. Look if it makes ya feel any better we're at the bit where Hod just got killed for killing Balder.
VI. What did you think the whole Carter bit was?
VII. Yes, the tech bubble was the bit where people thought that everyone would cry for Balder, but I didn't, then it burst.
VIII. Shit! I didn't think this through did I?
IV. Well why're you just bringing this shit up with me now?
X. Sure you WANTED to talk to Thor, but how's that going to happen when you're being clever.
XI. Gotta be angry to talk to that big Ox.
XII. Don't go laughing at ME smart guy, we're all going down the same toilet.
XIII. Gotta go, got stuff to take care of, maybe if I turn into a salmon...
Thus spake Loki.
Again, you ROCK.

VE, take it from someone who knows. The whacky ward is full of people that talk like that. If you keep it up, you're gonna get a nice dose of haldol. :rolleyes:

Wait, I don't get it. What's the punchline?

Sweet, now i'm going to become a christian and pound those Semite asses. *eyeroll* So anyway, were you in god's elect?

if there is anybody out there who doesn't find this thread's founding post amazingly hillarious, here's a special trick to help you find the humor:

replace "God" with "Eddie The Naughty Gnome."

that's how that post reads, for an agnostic. :)
I see the light! of eddie the naughty gnome!

1 Corinthians 14:30-32
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


1 Corinthians 14:37-40
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.
YAY the bible is fighting with itself again what a suprize

You're all wrong, for as Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD thy God which I command you."

In other words, Paul, Jesus, even the OT prophets like Malachi who disagreed with Moses on divorce, are all in breach of the Torah, the Law of Moses. Even the Talmud is a breach of the Torah. :p

It's hilarious to watch y'all jump around like hyperactive kangaroos.

Y'all are actin' as though you think this cat is serious.

*continues giggling and wiping tears from eyes*

It's hilarious to watch y'all jump around like hyperactive kangaroos.

Y'all are actin' as though you think this cat is serious.

*continues giggling and wiping tears from eyes*
The sad thing is he is ... you may not know him ... we thought he was a troll at first but he has been WAY to consistant for that

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.
VoteEarly, is there any way whether we can distinguish between the available possibilities? These would include:
1. You received an actual revelation from God.
2. You received a deceitful message from Satan.
3. You had a hallucination, possibly drug-related.
4. You're conducting a psychological experiment, or having a laugh.

Also, your stuff reads a lot like the Left Behind series, which were very, very poorly written.

BTW, have you read Vortex, by Larry Bond, copyright 1991. You might like it. Ultra-racist white supremacists take over South Africa and start a war to get Namibia back. Cuba uses this as a pretext to invade from the North, and the U.S. comes in to settle everything down (and defend its mineral interests!). I won't spoil the ending for you!

I hope he's not serious. I just wanted to shock people with some new info about the Bible the nuts revere so much. It condemns them too. :)

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so.

A great time of tribulation rocked the world, such that the leaders of the world were occupied with war and internal strife in their nations. Their populaces rose openly and slaughtered each other in civil conflict. Great cities became devoid of life and they became shells of their former glory. For in their glory they had become arrogant and mocked God, and God mocked them back. For God is not one to take lightly those who mock Him. As the Lord, Jesus Christ said, "Who so mocketh the Son of Man, he may be forgiven, but who so mocketh the Holy Spirit, he shall not be forgiven."

Plague and famine swept the land such that not even the rich were safe; their wealth and trappings were all for naught, for in the end they too would perish. They had become prisoners in their own homes, relying solely on their wealth to afford hired soldiers to defend their lavish estates from the army of peasant rabble arrayed against them.

It was on this backdrop that the beast did appear. Inhuman and fiendish, standing tall over man, lies pouring from his mouth, lies to seduce mankind. And of the majority of the world, reduced to their basest urges and instincts, did the mass of mankind follow this beast, this seducer, and this liar, into battle against God's people.

The number of God's people was fewer than 300, the number of the army of the beast was such that they could not be counted if one was to spend an entire century just counting them. This was for the single battle that was ready to be fought. But the beast was also gathering together his armies from all corners of the world, gathering them together to attack the Elect on all fronts.

The Elect of God took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

For the lord had commanded his people, as is written in Luke 22:36, to gather weapons. The purpose of that became clear on this day, the arsenals they had amassed would be used against the armies of demons the beast had recruited from the reprobate of the world.

The weather had turned into a nightmare, snowing and raining, with a red-hot sun beating down at the same time. Scorching and freezing simultaneously, all who dared venture outside into the maelstrom that God had sent forth to destroy the cities of man, the idols man had built to himself, shunning and mocking God. But now God did mock man.

Then the beast let out a cry such that it carried to all his armies, the sounds of the cry were clear, the attack was ordered to begin. God’s people readied themselves for the confrontation that was at hand.

The beast was invulnerable to anything that man attempted to do to stop him. No efforts of any man would even harm him. The masses of his army though, were not invulnerable, and many tens of thousands and indeed millions, fell before the people of God.

As it became evident that the people of God were about to be overwhelmed, their fortress compromised and on the verge of collapse, their prayers were answered by God Himself. Legions of angels came down from heaven and totally destroyed the army of the beast that had surrounded the fortress of God’s people.

The beast had therefore lost the first of the great battles, and was in retreat, to continue plaguing the Earth until such time as God hath predestinated, that he shall be totally and utterly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with all his army of demon worshippers and those who were not ordained.

Is it just me, or is this some subtle message that collecting weapons is justified? (whatever weapons VoteEarly has in mind, could be guns could be WMDs)

Or about the time you watched the Lord of the Rings.

Is it just me or does this just sound like a regurgitated version of the that last battle scene, just replace angels with "riders of Rohan."
Well I think that Tolkien was very much influenced by the Book of Revelation when he was writing his stories. Indeed, the rise of Sauron to tyrannical power in Númenor (read Unfinished Tales by J.R.R. Tolkien) is like a significantly extended version of Revelation 13:11-17:


11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.

14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.

16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Similarly on Tolkien's Númenor, Sauron rose to power to become overlord of the land of men, and led to their downfall.

We now know that VoteEarly is officially a troll. Either that, or he's insane.
VoteEarly is not a troll. His views are almost opposite to mine, but I find them interesting.

Whether he's insane, well, I won't either accept or refute that. ;)

And God spake unto VoteEarly, and didst say unto him:
"And hear my eleventh and Greatest commandment unto thee, my chosen;
"Thou shalt not again eat cheese before bedtime, lest thou art punished with visions again;"
And VoteEarly didst not listen unto the divine father, and Lo! he was punished with the visitations again;
And God was angered. And he didst say unto the People;
"Thou hast allowed that silly bugger at the Brie again, hasn't thou?"
And there was much shame and tribulation.

Thus spake the prophet Nas.

He's either a Troll, or he's batshit crazy.

I'm leaning towards the latter option.

*bursts out in laughter*

ph34r teh d3m0nz! :p

He's either a Troll, or he's batshit crazy.

I'm leaning towards the latter option.
latter ... he is to consistant for the average troll

Is it just me, or is this some subtle message that collecting weapons is justified? (whatever weapons VoteEarly has in mind, could be guns could be WMDs)


Why wouldn't it be? I've been stockpiling guns for almost a decade, everybody I know has also. Many folks I know even have RPGs, Stingers, TOWs, some even have mortars and perhaps a few mini-guns.

Many folks I know even have RPGs, Stingers, TOWs, some even have mortars and perhaps a few mini-guns.

Ummm.... ok...

*backs slowly towards the exit*

Why wouldn't it be? I've been stockpiling guns for almost a decade, everybody I know has also. Many folks I know even have RPGs, Stingers, TOWs, some even have mortars and perhaps a few mini-guns.
thats cause they are all unbalanced:)

I still prefer Jesussaves. His posts are funnier.

Why wouldn't it be? I've been stockpiling guns for almost a decade, everybody I know has also. Many folks I know even have RPGs, Stingers, TOWs, some even have mortars and perhaps a few mini-guns.

If it's all the same to you I'd perfer to stick to the weapons God designed for spiritual warfare.

The helmet of salvation, feet shod with the Gospel, a breastplate of righteousness, a belt of truth, the sword of the Spirit/the Word of God, the shield of faith. Works for me.

If it's all the same to you I'd perfer to stick to the weapons God designed for spiritual warfare.

The helmet of salvation, feet shod with the Gospel, a breastplate of righteousness, a belt of truth, the sword of the Spirit/the Word of God, the shield of faith. Works for me.
But to him you are an abomination :) so he does not care what you think lol

If it's all the same to you I'd perfer to stick to the weapons God designed for spiritual warfare.

The helmet of salvation, feet shod with the Gospel, a breastplate of righteousness, a belt of truth, the sword of the Spirit/the Word of God, the shield of faith. Works for me.
But hey, who needs that when you have militarism? (VoteEarly's real religion!)

But to him you are an abomination :) so he does not care what you think lol

It was merely an attempt to turn his mind toward scripture and the actual teachings of Christ and His disciples. I do believe that it is possible for a person to have a vision, as he claims to have done. It just has to agree with the whole of scripture before it can be accepted as valid.

I think we have more possibilities here than just "troll" or "crazy"
1. VE is trolling-seems unreasonable, he's too consistent
2. VE is batshit insane- a definite possibility
3. VE was hallucinating- would be a possibility, but VE doesn't seem to me like someone who would do a lot of drugs
4. VE is playing a collossal joke on us and has been for months now- also possible, though I don't think I've ever seen something like that happen here
5. VE actually received a divine revelation- I hope not. If so, I better start buying some guns and getting ready to face down the Elect. Go Armies of Darkness! ;)

It was merely an attempt to turn his mind toward scripture and the actual teachings of Christ and His disciples. I do believe that it is possible for a person to have a vision, as he claims to have done. It just has to agree with the whole of scripture before it can be accepted as valid.
then how did visions that did not agree with knoledge up to that point get added to the bible in general :p

I think we have more possibilities here than just "troll" or "crazy"
1. VE is trolling-seems unreasonable, he's too consistent
2. VE is batshit insane- a definite possibility
3. VE was hallucinating- would be a possibility, but VE doesn't seem to me like someone who would do a lot of drugs
4. VE is playing a collossal joke on us and has been for months now- also possible, though I don't think I've ever seen something like that happen here
5. VE actually received a divine revelation- I hope not. If so, I better start buying some guns and getting ready to face down the Elect. Go Armies of Darkness! ;)


1- No

2- No

3- No (Never taken any drugs. Note, I don't count tobacco and alcohol as drugs in this sense, but I have used tobacco and alcohol before, but not during the times of my visions)

4- No

5- Yes

But hey, who needs that when you have militarism? (VoteEarly's real religion!)


Absolutly spot on. He is a disgrace to anyone who has faith in any religion. Perhaps he is a combination of insane and a troll, an insane troll with guns. Is it possible that he is really Bush, I mean he has visions too. . .

latter ... he is to consistant for the average troll

Okay - so assuming for a second that VoteEarly IS a prophet...

Why put it all in 'pretend bible speak'?

Just so we know it's 'prophetic'?

Okay - so assuming for a second that VoteEarly IS a prophet...

Why put it all in 'pretend bible speak'?

Just so we know it's 'prophetic'?
I did not say he was smart/sane/resonable or any of the above but for the AVERAGE troll he is consistant lol

Absolutly spot on. He is a disgrace to anyone who has faith in any religion. Perhaps he is a combination of insane and a troll, an insane troll with guns. Is it possible that he is really Bush, I mean he has visions too. . .


Bush is an idolator, a false teacher, a member of the Bohemian Grove (Satanic secret society of occultists) and he is a main player in the New World Order and the International Banking cartel.

He is not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination. His visions are not of God, but of Satan.

I call my Lord, "Jesus", "Christ", "God", "Almighty", etc. Bush calls his lord, "My lord", "My lord", "My lord". Because his "lord" is the god of fortresses, a false god, baal.

(the passages below, almost to the letter, describe Bush and his deeds, or should I say, misdeeds)


Daniel 11:36-45

Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all.

But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things.

Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.


"At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through.

He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon.

He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.

But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many.

And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.

then how did visions that did not agree with knoledge up to that point get added to the bible in general :p

IMO, they didn't. But I'm aware that you and GI are quite fond of and good at finding ways to make them appear in contradiction. I've got to get back to work so we can save the insuing discussion for another day. ;)

I mean when the mass of the Boer rise up openly and stop tolerating the undeclared war. When the Boer declare war and retaliate, the whole of the world shall tremble before the might of a resurgent South Africa.


ph33r the Boers!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40306000/jpg/_40306899_maris_getty.jpg
Frank the Boer, dealing with an enemy (who is almost certainly Jewish).

http://www.vi.nl/images2/5/d/2/1994202758_1999999643_BoerRonald02_192-221.jpg

Ronald the Boer demonstrating his psycho-kinetic powers, given to him by the Almighty. Notice the huge forehead...that's pure mental power.

Bush is an idolator, a false teacher, a member of the Bohemian Grove (Satanic secret society of occultists) and he is a main player in the New World Order and the International Banking cartel.

He is not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination. His visions are not of God, but of Satan.

I call my Lord, "Jesus", "Christ", "God", "Almighty", etc. Bush calls his lord, "My lord", "My lord", "My lord". Because his "lord" is the god of fortresses, a false god, baal.

(the passages below, almost to the letter, describe Bush and his deeds, or should I say, misdeeds)


Daniel 11:36-45

Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all.

But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things.

Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.


"At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through.

He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon.

He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.

But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many.

And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.

Don't like Bush, huh?

I hear he speaks VERY highly of you...

ph33r the Boers!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40306000/jpg/_40306899_maris_getty.jpg
Frank the Boer, dealing with an enemy (who is almost certainly Jewish).

http://www.vi.nl/images2/5/d/2/1994202758_1999999643_BoerRonald02_192-221.jpg

Ronald the Boer demonstrating his psycho-kinetic powers, given to him by the Almighty. Notice the huge forehead...that's pure mental power.
ROFL!
*puts "best post ever" sticker on this post*
Pure comedy gold there RPP, almost fell off my chair when I read that one!:D

Hey, this is the absolute truth.

Here we see the a rare image of the Boers celebrating the capture of a slave. Later, they shall feast upon his entrails after using them to predict the end of the Universe.

http://www.ajax.nl/upload/97231_3120_1017333608337-1987boer_n.jpg

IMO, they didn't. But I'm aware that you and GI are quite fond of and good at finding ways to make them appear in contradiction. I've got to get back to work so we can save the insuing discussion for another day. ;)

I do believe I have just been complimented by Personal Responsibilit!

You hear that, UpwardThrust? We actually ARE good at something. :)

(Thank you, PR... I hold you in the highest respect, also).

bah, benevolent god?!?!?!

read psalm
140-10
58-6 and many many more

Wow, If I weren't a christian, and I heard or know you.. I wouldn't want to be a Christian..your pretty messed up.. :p

Nowonder tons of you hate Christianity, and I don't blame you guys.. Aihz.

---------------------

Question to VoteEarly:

What are you trying to prove? How does your 'prophecy' help people?

Do you honestly believe that everybodies going to hell because they aren't 'elected'? Man.. then God is really a cruel God, purposely creating humans to go to hell for nothing but 'playthings'.

I do believe I have just been complimented by Personal Responsibilit!

You hear that, UpwardThrust? We actually ARE good at something. :)

(Thank you, PR... I hold you in the highest respect, also).
YAY!!!

I mean when the mass of the Boer rise up openly and stop tolerating the undeclared war. When the Boer declare war and retaliate, the whole of the world shall tremble before the might of a resurgent South Africa.

Haha! I forgot about "God's covenant with the Boer". You were ranting about that in the "country you hate most" post a few days back.


The Elect of Eddie The Naughty Gnome took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

:p

After reading all these posts, I must say something.

The end-times are irrevelant.

Why?

Bush's out of office in 2008 automatically (2 term limit), and once we colonize Mars and other space stuff, Earth can explode and Humanity would still live on.

The Bible doesn't take into account of extra-solar life or colonization like bacteria on Mars (proven), humans setting up cities on Mars (possible with today's tech or tech within 10 - 15 years), and now the probes to Europa.


So basically, I don't place faith in "End Times" because we're just beginning to expand into space (colonies can start up in 20+ years, within our lifetimes)

Wow, If I weren't a christian, and I heard or know you.. I wouldn't want to be a Christian..your pretty messed up.. :p

Nowonder tons of you hate Christianity, and I don't blame you guys.. Aihz.

---------------------

Question to VoteEarly:

What are you trying to prove? How does your 'prophecy' help people?

Do you honestly believe that everybodies going to hell because they aren't 'elected'? Man.. then God is really a cruel God, purposely creating humans to go to hell for nothing but 'playthings'.


I don't care if it helps anybody, I want the Reprobate to know that they're doomed. Anyway, perhaps it has been predestinated that by publishing that, I've reached one unaware Elect who is know aware of his Election status and will thus fall neatly into God's plan.

Yes, God hates most people, and we only exist now because it pleases him that we do exist now. He owes us nothing, and that is what man is entitled to.

I don't care if it helps anybody, I want the Reprobate to know that they're doomed. Anyway, perhaps it has been predestinated that by publishing that, I've reached one unaware Elect who is know aware of his Election status and will thus fall neatly into God's plan.

Yes, God hates most people, and we only exist now because it pleases him that we do exist now. He owes us nothing, and that is what man is entitled to.
Sounds like an evil bastard … lol someone with that temperament would probably just send you to hell for the sheer joy of it…

With how much he must hate humans what better cruel joke then make some think that they are getting into heaven then by casting them into the very place they condemned others …
That would seem to be a fitting action by the god you describe

So does that mean atheists and agnostics actually are the better humans? They don't have to follow blind faith of an evil god, and they lose nothing by not believing in god.

The more I think about it, the more credible agnostics and atheists are. Why serve god at all if he's only gonna send everybody to hell except for 300 people like in DA / VE's prophecy?

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so.

A great time of tribulation rocked the world, such that the leaders of the world were occupied with war and internal strife in their nations. Their populaces rose openly and slaughtered each other in civil conflict. Great cities became devoid of life and they became shells of their former glory. For in their glory they had become arrogant and mocked God, and God mocked them back. For God is not one to take lightly those who mock Him. As the Lord, Jesus Christ said, "Who so mocketh the Son of Man, he may be forgiven, but who so mocketh the Holy Spirit, he shall not be forgiven."

Plague and famine swept the land such that not even the rich were safe; their wealth and trappings were all for naught, for in the end they too would perish. They had become prisoners in their own homes, relying solely on their wealth to afford hired soldiers to defend their lavish estates from the army of peasant rabble arrayed against them.

It was on this backdrop that the beast did appear. Inhuman and fiendish, standing tall over man, lies pouring from his mouth, lies to seduce mankind. And of the majority of the world, reduced to their basest urges and instincts, did the mass of mankind follow this beast, this seducer, and this liar, into battle against God's people.

The number of God's people was fewer than 300, the number of the army of the beast was such that they could not be counted if one was to spend an entire century just counting them. This was for the single battle that was ready to be fought. But the beast was also gathering together his armies from all corners of the world, gathering them together to attack the Elect on all fronts.

The Elect of God took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

For the lord had commanded his people, as is written in Luke 22:36, to gather weapons. The purpose of that became clear on this day, the arsenals they had amassed would be used against the armies of demons the beast had recruited from the reprobate of the world.

The weather had turned into a nightmare, snowing and raining, with a red-hot sun beating down at the same time. Scorching and freezing simultaneously, all who dared venture outside into the maelstrom that God had sent forth to destroy the cities of man, the idols man had built to himself, shunning and mocking God. But now God did mock man.

Then the beast let out a cry such that it carried to all his armies, the sounds of the cry were clear, the attack was ordered to begin. God’s people readied themselves for the confrontation that was at hand.

The beast was invulnerable to anything that man attempted to do to stop him. No efforts of any man would even harm him. The masses of his army though, were not invulnerable, and many tens of thousands and indeed millions, fell before the people of God.

As it became evident that the people of God were about to be overwhelmed, their fortress compromised and on the verge of collapse, their prayers were answered by God Himself. Legions of angels came down from heaven and totally destroyed the army of the beast that had surrounded the fortress of God’s people.

The beast had therefore lost the first of the great battles, and was in retreat, to continue plaguing the Earth until such time as God hath predestinated, that he shall be totally and utterly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with all his army of demon worshippers and those who were not ordained.

The number 300 seems to be a bit low, though nicely symbolic. Other than that, well-written. Have you ever thought of publishing?

So does that mean atheists and agnostics actually are the better humans? They don't have to follow blind faith of an evil god, and they lose nothing by not believing in god.

The more I think about it, the more credible agnostics and atheists are. Why serve god at all if he's only gonna send everybody to hell except for 300 people like in DA / VE's prophecy?


I don't claim to say the number of the Elect is only 300, I am only saying in my vision, that the number was not more than 300.

The number 300 seems to be a bit low, though nicely symbolic. Other than that, well-written. Have you ever thought of publishing?


No, can't say I've thought of publishing it.

Sounds like an evil bastard … lol someone with that temperament would probably just send you to hell for the sheer joy of it…

Actually, anyone who claims to be sure of knowing who's going to heaven or hell goes to hell immediately. That kind of knowledge is only reserved for God, you know, and he keeps it very well guarded. By claiming to be "in the know" you compare yourself to God, and this is one of the worst sins. Pride and boastfulness, such as VoteEarly displays in almost every post, are certainly not rewarded.

So basically, I don't place faith in "End Times" because we're just beginning to expand into space (colonies can start up in 20+ years, within our lifetimes)
And if we can increase our lifespans to 1000 years within 25 years like that scientist was saying the other day, then it certainly move beyond that within our lifetimes.

Hear that which I speak and know that it is the word of God, as revealed to me. This is a vision of the end of the world, gifted to me in a vision by Almighty God. Who so shall doubt this, let it him realize he is reprobate and blinded to the truth. For I speak the truth of God, as it is commanded by God that we do so.

A great time of tribulation rocked the world, such that the leaders of the world were occupied with war and internal strife in their nations. Their populaces rose openly and slaughtered each other in civil conflict. Great cities became devoid of life and they became shells of their former glory. For in their glory they had become arrogant and mocked God, and God mocked them back. For God is not one to take lightly those who mock Him. As the Lord, Jesus Christ said, "Who so mocketh the Son of Man, he may be forgiven, but who so mocketh the Holy Spirit, he shall not be forgiven."

Plague and famine swept the land such that not even the rich were safe; their wealth and trappings were all for naught, for in the end they too would perish. They had become prisoners in their own homes, relying solely on their wealth to afford hired soldiers to defend their lavish estates from the army of peasant rabble arrayed against them.

It was on this backdrop that the beast did appear. Inhuman and fiendish, standing tall over man, lies pouring from his mouth, lies to seduce mankind. And of the majority of the world, reduced to their basest urges and instincts, did the mass of mankind follow this beast, this seducer, and this liar, into battle against God's people.

The number of God's people was fewer than 300, the number of the army of the beast was such that they could not be counted if one was to spend an entire century just counting them. This was for the single battle that was ready to be fought. But the beast was also gathering together his armies from all corners of the world, gathering them together to attack the Elect on all fronts.

The Elect of God took refuge in a building of a ruined city and readied to make their final stand against the rising tide of the legions of demonic followers arrayed against them.

For the lord had commanded his people, as is written in Luke 22:36, to gather weapons. The purpose of that became clear on this day, the arsenals they had amassed would be used against the armies of demons the beast had recruited from the reprobate of the world.

The weather had turned into a nightmare, snowing and raining, with a red-hot sun beating down at the same time. Scorching and freezing simultaneously, all who dared venture outside into the maelstrom that God had sent forth to destroy the cities of man, the idols man had built to himself, shunning and mocking God. But now God did mock man.

Then the beast let out a cry such that it carried to all his armies, the sounds of the cry were clear, the attack was ordered to begin. God’s people readied themselves for the confrontation that was at hand.

The beast was invulnerable to anything that man attempted to do to stop him. No efforts of any man would even harm him. The masses of his army though, were not invulnerable, and many tens of thousands and indeed millions, fell before the people of God.

As it became evident that the people of God were about to be overwhelmed, their fortress compromised and on the verge of collapse, their prayers were answered by God Himself. Legions of angels came down from heaven and totally destroyed the army of the beast that had surrounded the fortress of God’s people.

The beast had therefore lost the first of the great battles, and was in retreat, to continue plaguing the Earth until such time as God hath predestinated, that he shall be totally and utterly defeated and cast into the lake of fire with all his army of demon worshippers and those who were not ordained.

So that's what happens when you mix PCP, bong water, and 7-layer nachos? Thanks for the learning experience VoteEarly!

No, can't say I've thought of publishing it.

It might be worth a try. I've seen much worse make it through the publishing process.

And if we can increase our lifespans to 1000 years within 25 years like that scientist was saying the other day, then it certainly move beyond that within our lifetimes.

No crap? 1000 year lifetime?

Please provide a link or elaborate on this.

And if we can increase our lifespans to 1000 years within 25 years like that scientist was saying the other day, then it certainly move beyond that within our lifetimes.
Source?

Of all of the people God could choose to lead his army...why Frank and Ronald (the Boers)?!

No crap? 1000 year lifetime?

Please provide a link or elaborate on this.
Wait... it was a couple of day ago... here it is: http://www.newstarget.com/004860.html

Wait... it was a couple of day ago... here it is: http://www.newstarget.com/004860.html

Holy shit!

Imagine living to 3005 A.D.

Now that'd be quite something!

I guess your trying to gain attention? Most of what you have said is how many precive Revelatons, it is mostly your imagenation, or if this really was an act of God, himself, than why you say such a thing on NS? What good is your purpose to post this on NS if God has many other duties of this message, mainly in churches or to try to convert non-belivers.

And don't go about throwing verses back-and-forth, mainly becouse VE doesn't really get it, at least from what I've seen.

The Boers have absolutely no right to any part of Africa.

Europe for Europeans, Africa for Africans. Simple, fair rule to abide by.

Holy shit!

Imagine living to 3005 A.D.

Now that'd be quite something!

Ohh, I have seen that, and as a simple solution to any medical problem, research Scalar Technology and Free Energy. I use it in my FT RPs and most consider it godmod, even if it is a reality and most belive it is in the admediate future, as if Quantum Physics isn't godmod...lol, just nit picking.

The Boers have absolutely no right to any part of Africa.

Europe for Europeans, Africa for Africans. Simple, fair rule to abide by.


I'm sure most Boers would consider moving to the Netherlands or Germany, but Germany is 10-15% Nonwhite, and Netherlands is 20-25% non-white, so will the Turks and Arabs all be leaving Europe then?

I guess your trying to gain attention? Most of what you have said is how many precive Revelatons, it is mostly your imagenation, or if this really was an act of God, himself, than why you say such a thing on NS? What good is your purpose to post this on NS if God has many other duties of this message, mainly in churches or to try to convert non-belivers.

And don't go about throwing verses back-and-forth, mainly becouse VE doesn't really get it, at least from what I've seen.


Ask yourself, "Since he views me as reprobate, does he really care what I think?"

Your answer, a resounding "NO!"

And I posted here so that some folks I wanted to see it, could see it, mainly Kahta and a few others. I didn't want to be up all night hunting down email addresses which I don't remember what file they're saved under.

Also, we're probably obligated to tell the reprobate, so they can realize just how much God hates them.

I'm sure most Boers would consider moving to the Netherlands or Germany, but Germany is 10-15% Nonwhite, and Netherlands is 20-25% non-white, so will the Turks and Arabs all be leaving Europe then?
The Turks and the Arabs didn't colonize Europe and attempt to control it.

The Turks and the Arabs didn't colonize Europe and attempt to control it.


I beg to differ, the entire Balkans was under Turkish yoke, forget you the battle of Vienna in 1683?

Forget you the battle of Tours in 732 in FRANCE, the heartland of Europe at the time.


Forget you the Moorish despots that ruled Spain from 700s to 1492?

I beg to differ, the entire Balkans was under Turkish yoke, forget you the battle of Vienna in 1683?

Forget you the battle of Tours in 732 in FRANCE, the heartland of Europe at the time.


Forget you the Moorish despots that ruled Spain from 700s to 1492?
Yes, but those empires have longed been destroyed. Now they aren't trying to take over. They don't claim the land is their, now.

Also, we're probably obligated to tell the reprobate, so they can realize just how much God hates them.
And it was written, "Thou shalt tell everyone that I hate them so that they realise that they are screwed."

The Boers nearly killed off and enslaved an entire population. Hardly what I would consider an act inspired by God. There were natives in the southern coastal region who lived in permanent settlements, the Boers enslaved them and destroyed their towns as they they pressed inwards into the land.

Forget you the Moorish despots that ruled Spain from 700s to 1492?

There we go again with the outdated syntax. Methinks someone doth wantest attention and oh so desperately to be taken seriously.

And I do disagree with Itinerate Tree Dweller, in the sense that everyone should live wherever the hell they want. Although I think he/she was making the point more based on ownership/colonisation.

Blasphemy! You Are A Heretic And Must Be Crucified!

Blasphemy! You Are A Heretic And Must Be Crucified!
Not again.

I think it's an attempt at humour.

But then again this is NS...

"There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge...."

Am I mistaken or is that a quote from "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas?" great movie, by the way. I have yet to read the book. It's a shame the author died.

I have had revelations of my own, but none as clear as yours, VoteEarly.

No more pizza before bed for you either.

And someone take away their cheese and spicy food.

I think it's an attempt at humour.

But then again this is NS...
I dont think so (from what I can tell) he even im'd me bout it lol

Good stuff

Very well written.

A quick interjection:
To recap everything I've learned from this thread
1. VoteEarly should really stay on his meds
2. God is a psychotic assbite who would be sentenced to life in prison in any civilized country.
3. The Boers were promised South Africa by God! For some reason. They really should get the hell outta there. Not their land.
4. You can get anything published these days.

Please continue.

I have two questions I have concerning subjects relating to this thread (and the overall nature of Calvinist predestination in general).

-----

If God has already chosen who is elect and who is reprobate, than what incentive do I have to respect my environment and those who try and coexist with me?

-By the basis of Calvinist ideology, since God has already chosen whether or not I will meet a welcoming afterlife (irregardless of my actions) I should maximize my time on this mortal coil well before I shuffle off. Since God seems to be arbitrary in the choosing the elect, it appears that no amount of willful, selfless, humanity that I possess will ever earn a just reward in the eyes of the almighty; by that logic, then there is no need or requirement for me or anyone else in the world to follow the basics of law and order.

-----

If God is both omnipotent and omnipresent, then why did it go through the trouble of creating existence when it essentially knows the outcome of the universe regardless of our actions or personal affairs?

-This is perhaps the biggest contention I have to any argument concerning unbreakable prophecy, divine predestination, or other related themes (such as the Calvinist theory of the elect). I find it hard to believe that a deity would simply create the vastness and near infinite wonder that is this mysterious universe and occupy it with a wondrous collection of beings with a vast array of thoughts, feelings, and ideas only to fulfill a set ending which could have been developed eons ago.

If everyone is predestined to heaven or hell before they are born, what is the point in evangelism? Is not the purpose of spreading the Gospel to "save souls?"

If everyone is predestined to heaven or hell before they are born, what is the point in evangelism? Is not the purpose of spreading the Gospel to "save souls?"


Evangelism is pointless.

I have two questions I have concerning subjects relating to this thread (and the overall nature of Calvinist predestination in general).

-----

If God has already chosen who is elect and who is reprobate, than what incentive do I have to respect my environment and those who try and coexist with me?

-By the basis of Calvinist ideology, since God has already chosen whether or not I will meet a welcoming afterlife (irregardless of my actions) I should maximize my time on this mortal coil well before I shuffle off. Since God seems to be arbitrary in the choosing the elect, it appears that no amount of willful, selfless, humanity that I possess will ever earn a just reward in the eyes of the almighty; by that logic, then there is no need or requirement for me or anyone else in the world to follow the basics of law and order.

-----

If God is both omnipotent and omnipresent, then why did it go through the trouble of creating existence when it essentially knows the outcome of the universe regardless of our actions or personal affairs?

-This is perhaps the biggest contention I have to any argument concerning unbreakable prophecy, divine predestination, or other related themes (such as the Calvinist theory of the elect). I find it hard to believe that a deity would simply create the vastness and near infinite wonder that is this mysterious universe and occupy it with a wondrous collection of beings with a vast array of thoughts, feelings, and ideas only to fulfill a set ending which could have been developed eons ago.


I am not educated enough in the gospel to answer these questions as much as they deserve to be answered.


I can suggest that you read a book called, "The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented", I'm going to get it, I've heard good things about it.

Anyway, If you are Elect, you'll be predestinated to act a certain way, if you don't act with faith in God, which is a gift from God, we know for sure you're not Elect.

I am not educated enough in the gospel to answer these questions as much as they deserve to be answered.


I can suggest that you read a book called, "The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented", I'm going to get it, I've heard good things about it.

Anyway, If you are Elect, you'll be predestinated to act a certain way, if you don't act with faith in God, which is a gift from God, we know for sure you're not Elect.
So why did god create all the non elect if he already knew they would have no chance?

So why did god create all the non elect if he already knew they would have no chance?


It pleased Him to do so.

God is the Absolute Sovereign of the universe, and He does as He wishes.

It pleased Him to do so.

God is the Absolute Sovereign of the universe, and He does as He wishes.
Thats the reason calvinism gives for why he created everyone else? or your reason
?

I am not educated enough in the gospel to answer these questions as much as they deserve to be answered.


I can suggest that you read a book called, "The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented", I'm going to get it, I've heard good things about it.

Anyway, If you are Elect, you'll be predestinated to act a certain way, if you don't act with faith in God, which is a gift from God, we know for sure you're not Elect.

i'm curious. what do you define as a sin and a sinner? what constitutes a sin?

i'm curious. what do you define as a sin and a sinner? what constitutes a sin?


Most sins are sexual in nature, or are heresy in nature.

A failure to appreciate and accept the 5 Points of Calvinism, the doctrine of Grace.
Divorce (under any circumstances. Divorce is NEVER acceptable)
Adultery
Fornication
Beastiality
Homosexuality
Idolatry
Blasphemy
Heresy
(Breaking any of the 10 commandments)

Those are just the first few that came to my mind, but the list is long, indeed possibly endless, most things man does, disgust God. Only the tiny few, the Elect, who do right and follow His words, is He pleased with. And they alone are the only reason He has not destroyed the world once again, as was done in the days of Noah.

Most sins are sexual in nature, or are heresy in nature.

A failure to appreciate and accept the 5 Points of Calvinism, the doctrine of Grace.
Divorce (under any circumstances. Divorce is NEVER acceptable)
Adultery
Fornication
Beastiality
Homosexuality
Idolatry
Blasphemy
Heresy
(Breaking any of the 10 commandments)

Those are just the first few that came to my mind, but the list is long, indeed possibly endless, most things man does, disgust God. Only the tiny few, the Elect, who do right and follow His words, is He pleased with. And they alone are the only reason He has not destroyed the world once again, as was done in the days of Noah.

okay and another question. since you do hold to predestination, does this also mean that there is no free will?

Most sins are sexual in nature, or are heresy in nature.

A failure to appreciate and accept the 5 Points of Calvinism, the doctrine of Grace.
Divorce (under any circumstances. Divorce is NEVER acceptable)
Adultery
Fornication
Beastiality
Homosexuality
Idolatry
Blasphemy
Heresy
(Breaking any of the 10 commandments)

Those are just the first few that came to my mind, but the list is long, indeed possibly endless, most things man does, disgust God. Only the tiny few, the Elect, who do right and follow His words, is He pleased with. And they alone are the only reason He has not destroyed the world once again, as was done in the days of Noah.


Them alone? and here I thought it was because he promiced he wouldent

okay and another question. since you do hold to predestination, does this also mean that there is no free will?


As I understand it, there is no free will, at least in the regards of salvation. Man can do nothing to save himself and is totally dependent upon the Grace of God.

I'd love to continue this discussion rapid-fire back and forth, but I have work to tend to. I'll make a few posts here and there over the next few hours, but I promise nothing. Sorry. :(

I have a paper to write, but this weekend I may have more time...

then why does any of this shit matter?
Also, your a loon, but that's just my opinion.

I dont think so (from what I can tell) he even im'd me bout it lol
:p What is this place, a loonybin in disguise? I've had people send me telegrams asking why I'm such a heathen. lol.

Oh, and on the boers, I have no problem with them being in South Africa. I mean, I had boer friends. SA is their home now. And besides, my family were migrants, well ok, slaves... But they sure as hell don't want to get sent back to India! I just don't like the way a small percentage of them feel above the rest of the SA population.

As I understand it, there is no free will, at least in the regards of salvation. Man can do nothing to save himself and is totally dependent upon the Grace of God....


so basically since man has no free will then man is not responsible for his own actions. if man is not responsible for his own actions than how can anything be defined as a sin? this is a rather extreme example, but suppose i toss a sleeping man out of a window in a tall building and he lands on an old woman and kills her. did the man who was asleep sin as a result of simply being the tool i used? as i said before, this is an extreme example, but i'd like your feedback on this.

Meh.

A few years back, when I was on alt.atheism, I had a small number of emails with a guy who thought he was chosen by the monotheistic deity to try and reunite the churches in to a peaceful whole.

He was, despite this, a fairly nice, even humble fellow. He was even smart enough to realize he was probably insane.

I can respect a nut who knows they're a nut. If only the other nuts had that degree of insight.

Most sins are sexual in nature, or are heresy in nature.

Edited for sake of succinct quotation

Those are just the first few that came to my mind, but the list is long, indeed possibly endless, most things man does, disgust God.

This is an interesting argument, and I think it requires some additional expounding on behalf of all parties. We've pretty much hit that in the general scheme of Calvinist doctrine the world as we know it is more or less predestined and set by the universal command of God since existance was created. I can assume that no proper answer to the question I propose can be attained through human methodology; however, I will ask it for the sake of academic argument.

We, beings composed of finite resources and finite components, could eventually approach the concept of thinking in terms of the infinite but will always remain beyond its elusive boundaries (for purposes of mathematical logic if nothing else). If the deity who created this universe was, for all intents and purposes, a being without limits and thus truly infinite in intellect and wisdom, than how can it be limited with modicums of human emotion?

If there is no free will, any 'sin' I commit, is not my fault, but God's. The lack of motivation to be a good person is my major issue with Calvinism. If very few people are going to heaven...

1. Chances are I'm not one of them. I'm going to Hell.

2. If I'm predestined to go to hell, I could live almost like Christ himself and it wouldn't make any difference. I would still be damned.

3. Living a life of sin and self-indulgence would get me the same as living a life of compassion and good deeds.

4. Logically, I should indulge myself as much as possible before my near-inevitable damnation. It in fact, encourages me to be evil.

I do not personally believe in Hell. However, that does not mean I believe in an afterlife without retribution. In some way, those who harm others here on Earth will be made to serve them in the next life. That's just my belief, though.

Well, I feel as though I should interject, I know that the General Forum is just generally hostile when it comes to Christianity, so I usually try and stay away, and so do most of the thousands of reasonable, normal, Christians that play this game. However, the really big nut jobs all seem to like to argue, and VoteEarly is one of these, Jesussaves is just stupid and Servus Die, well, him and VE deserve each other, but at the very least he isn't posting pseudo-Biblical language and calling it a revelation.

Listen, I am studying to become a Pastor in the Lutheran Church and have my eyes on eventually gaining my Doctorate in either Theology (Th.D.) or church history (Ph.D.). I am at a school where I interact and study alongside very strong Calvinists. I am leaning towards a field of study called Systematics, which was the area that was pioneered by people such as John Calvin. John Calvin was brilliant, and was one of these graduates from the finest college in Europe at the age of 18 types, but kind of a cold fish and more than a little cloistered. He wrote his book, The Institutes of the Christian Religion, and eventually made it law in Geneva that no one could criticise the book, one city councillor who did was mad to walk through the streets with only a shirt on holding a torch to light his shame.
He allowed Michael Servetus to be burned at the stake, though he tried to stop it, as every Calvinist points out. Later, however, when Martin Luther and Melanchthon wrote against the fundamentalist regime that he was running in Geneva, comparing it to the tragedy in Munster, he vehemently defended the death penalty for heretics. The only time he seemed to be not angry with people was when he was teaching at the University of Strasbourg under Martin Bucer, during the time that he was ran out of Geneva for three years. One must remember that though he officially held an office, (chaplain) in the Catholic Church in France since he was 12, he actually was trained only minimally in theology, and even then only dabbling up to his M.A., at that point he switched and became a Lawyer, earning his Doctorate in that field.

Unfortunately, though our friendly neighbourhood psychopath is misrepresenting the teachings of Calvin to the Nth degree, especially his doctrine of "Double Predestination," which is mistakenly called predestination even among the Calvinists, usually just so they don't have to explain themselves every five minutes, is mostly true. But not all. Let m break it down for you.

Predestination, there are two type of people in the world, the elect, and the reprobate. In predestination, you have freedom of will in all matters not pertaining to salvation. However, your "soul" if you will is in bondage to sin from the day you were born. In your sinful and fallen human nature, you live separated from knowledge and relationship with God. So, you are a slave to sin. You cannot help yourself, everything you do is sin. Even if you do something pure and good and helpful, it is still sin. Now here is where a lot of people start yelling, what? Even if I do good, it is sin, what kind of God is that? Bear with me. You see, sin, in this sense, is a separation from relationship with Him. Therefore, even if you do "good" you are not doing it for God, but for yourself. Even if you selflessly give all your worldly goods away and spend the rest of your life trying to help people with your every waking breath, you might still be doing it because "it feels good." Do you see?
Now, you’re this walking ball of sin, damned by your separation from God. But, it is all your choice, you can continue to sin and sin all you want. Or, you can choose to do good and not serve Him, that's your prerogative. But, you belong to the "reprobate."
At this point, since you can do nothing, and I mean nothing to save yourself from this sin, (Eph 2:8-9) then you are understood to not even be able to make a choice to serve Him. When the Word is preached and the Promises are told to you in word and deed, you have the Holy Spirit working in you. And so, when there is a "moment of conversion" mainstream Christians will often talk about making a "choice," well, with this understanding of sin as not being essentially what you do, but your condition, YOU, as a sinner, are incapable of "choosing" God. So, through the preaching and teaching of His Word, the Holy Spirit works in you, freeing your bondage to the sinful condition and allowing you to respond to the gracious gift of God's love and salvation. So, it is not you doing it, it is the Holy Spirit, doing it for and through you. Though it feels as though you have a choice. And, you can always choose to return to your sinful nature again.
So, that is predestination in a nutshell, but that is the Lutheran understanding. And we don't usually call it that, more "The Bondage of the Will."

Calvin, while he considered himself a student of Luther's, thought that wasn't really good enough, and decided that if you couldn't choose, Heaven, you couldn't choose hell either.

This is "double predestination." Same as before, you have the elect, and the reprobate. But, in this version, though the Spirit works in you the same salvation as above, wherein, you cannot "choose" to become saved, you also cannot "choose" to walk away from God either. You still have what amounts to free will in regards to anything not pertaining to salvation. But, in this happy version, the understanding is carried a bit further, since you cannot choose heaven, it is seen as illogical (whoever said it had to be?) to be able to choose perdition. So, presumably, God would also choose that for you. That being said, you have to take into account that God is All-knowing, and knowing everything, he would have known who was going to make it and who wasn't, so, he "predestined" everything to happen. That means that both the elect and reprobate are chosen from before time for their respective ends. Herein comes the trouble, first, the question, then why bother with this creation thingy? Second, it is then assumed that the sign of the elect will be an upright life. If that is the case, how does one know that he is the elect? He must live that Godly life. But all men sin, so how much makes you fall from grace, where is the line? This leads to a lot of people running around trying to "prove" that they are one of the elect, it wasn't pretty in Geneva, and it isn't pretty now.

This is the understanding, but let me say, that most of the Calvinists I know are very nice people, not the nut job this guy is. Please don't judge all of them by him, or the rest of Christianity by these guys. I know that we Christians screw up a lot, we're not perfect. And I know that we are in the news a lot, but I will guess that there are as many if not more atheists in the news doing just as stupid things, it is just human nature. God forgives us, can you too?


WWJD
Amen.

Well, I feel as though I should interject, I know that the General Forum is just generally hostile when it comes to Christianity, so I usually try and stay away, and so do most of the thousands of reasonable, normal, Christians that play this game. However, the really big nut jobs all seem to like to argue, and VoteEarly is one of these, Jesussaves is just stupid and Servus Die, well, him and VE deserve each other, but at the very least he isn't posting pseudo-Biblical language and calling it a revelation.

Listen, I am studying to become a Pastor in the Lutheran Church and have my eyes on eventually gaining my Doctorate in either Theology (Th.D.) or church history (Ph.D.). I am at a school where I interact and study alongside very strong Calvinists. I am leaning towards a field of study called Systematics, which was the area that was pioneered by people such as John Calvin. John Calvin was brilliant, and was one of these graduates from the finest college in Europe at the age of 18 types, but kind of a cold fish and more than a little cloistered. He wrote his book, The Institutes of the Christian Religion, and eventually made it law in Geneva that no one could criticise the book, one city councillor who did was mad to walk through the streets with only a shirt on holding a torch to light his shame.
He allowed Michael Servetus to be burned at the stake, though he tried to stop it, as every Calvinist points out. Later, however, when Martin Luther and Melanchthon wrote against the fundamentalist regime that he was running in Geneva, comparing it to the tragedy in Munster, he vehemently defended the death penalty for heretics. The only time he seemed to be not angry with people was when he was teaching at the University of Strasbourg under Martin Bucer, during the time that he was ran out of Geneva for three years. One must remember that though he officially held an office, (chaplain) in the Catholic Church in France since he was 12, he actually was trained only minimally in theology, and even then only dabbling up to his M.A., at that point he switched and became a Lawyer, earning his Doctorate in that field.

Unfortunately, though our friendly neighbourhood psychopath is misrepresenting the teachings of Calvin to the Nth degree, especially his doctrine of "Double Predestination," which is mistakenly called predestination even among the Calvinists, usually just so they don't have to explain themselves every five minutes, is mostly true. But not all. Let m break it down for you.

Predestination, there are two type of people in the world, the elect, and the reprobate. In predestination, you have freedom of will in all matters not pertaining to salvation. However, your "soul" if you will is in bondage to sin from the day you were born. In your sinful and fallen human nature, you live separated from knowledge and relationship with God. So, you are a slave to sin. You cannot help yourself, everything you do is sin. Even if you do something pure and good and helpful, it is still sin. Now here is where a lot of people start yelling, what? Even if I do good, it is sin, what kind of God is that? Bear with me. You see, sin, in this sense, is a separation from relationship with Him. Therefore, even if you do "good" you are not doing it for God, but for yourself. Even if you selflessly give all your worldly goods away and spend the rest of your life trying to help people with your every waking breath, you might still be doing it because "it feels good." Do you see?
Now, you’re this walking ball of sin, damned by your separation from God. But, it is all your choice, you can continue to sin and sin all you want. Or, you can choose to do good and not serve Him, that's your prerogative. But, you belong to the "reprobate."
At this point, since you can do nothing, and I mean nothing to save yourself from this sin, (Eph 2:8-9) then you are understood to not even be able to make a choice to serve Him. When the Word is preached and the Promises are told to you in word and deed, you have the Holy Spirit working in you. And so, when there is a "moment of conversion" mainstream Christians will often talk about making a "choice," well, with this understanding of sin as not being essentially what you do, but your condition, YOU, as a sinner, are incapable of "choosing" God. So, through the preaching and teaching of His Word, the Holy Spirit works in you, freeing your bondage to the sinful condition and allowing you to respond to the gracious gift of God's love and salvation. So, it is not you doing it, it is the Holy Spirit, doing it for and through you. Though it feels as though you have a choice. And, you can always choose to return to your sinful nature again.
So, that is predestination in a nutshell, but that is the Lutheran understanding. And we don't usually call it that, more "The Bondage of the Will."

Calvin, while he considered himself a student of Luther's, thought that wasn't really good enough, and decided that if you couldn't choose, Heaven, you couldn't choose hell either.

This is "double predestination." Same as before, you have the elect, and the reprobate. But, in this version, though the Spirit works in you the same salvation as above, wherein, you cannot "choose" to become saved, you also cannot "choose" to walk away from God either. You still have what amounts to free will in regards to anything not pertaining to salvation. But, in this happy version, the understanding is carried a bit further, since you cannot choose heaven, it is seen as illogical (whoever said it had to be?) to be able to choose perdition. So, presumably, God would also choose that for you. That being said, you have to take into account that God is All-knowing, and knowing everything, he would have known who was going to make it and who wasn't, so, he "predestined" everything to happen. That means that both the elect and reprobate are chosen from before time for their respective ends. Herein comes the trouble, first, the question, then why bother with this creation thingy? Second, it is then assumed that the sign of the elect will be an upright life. If that is the case, how does one know that he is the elect? He must live that Godly life. But all men sin, so how much makes you fall from grace, where is the line? This leads to a lot of people running around trying to "prove" that they are one of the elect, it wasn't pretty in Geneva, and it isn't pretty now.

This is the understanding, but let me say, that most of the Calvinists I know are very nice people, not the nut job this guy is. Please don't judge all of them by him, or the rest of Christianity by these guys. I know that we Christians screw up a lot, we're not perfect. And I know that we are in the news a lot, but I will guess that there are as many if not more atheists in the news doing just as stupid things, it is just human nature. God forgives us, can you too?


WWJD
Amen.



thank you very much for explaining this to me.

I must ask why people would choose to follow Calvinism, with its restrictions? Why would anyone choose to follow Calvinism, knowing that only a few of them would go to heaven and everybody else goes to hell?

Wouldn't Protestant or Christianity, or even Islam be a better choice, where more people would go to heaven, and people can actually earn their way to a "positive" afterlife? That would be much more incentive to do good in the world than Calvinism, where no matter what you do, you're going to hell?

Seriously, these religions actually encourage people to do evil, as they would be like "Why do I even bother helping people if I'm gonna go to hell anyway?"

Personally, I'm leaning towards atheism or agnostic, as it doesn 't have to deal with going to heaven through extreme piety and/or "random chance" or being doomed to go to hell no matter what you do. I think a better philosophy in life would be like this...

"You are born into this life. You gain sentience and consciousness. You then make the best or worst of your life, with choices and consquences. Then once your death-time comes, you look back on the destiny you made for yourself. Then your consciousness either dissipates into nothingness, or is transferred as energy into another life-form.

Add up all the actions you have taken, and the consquences and recuperssions of your actions. The impact of your life will be measured as a positive or negative."

If you benefit the world in some way, such as saving someone's life, then that person in turn has children who find a cure for AIDS. Thus, your life would have a positive impact.

However, if you chose to steal 100 dollars from a father who comes 100 dollars short of the money needed for an operation. Not having an operation would cause the father to develop a tumor 3 years later. Then a person that the father would have met wouldn't have met the father, and not realize the need to quit smoking. The person dies early, and not having children of his own that he would have had. Then the children wouldn't exist, and these children would have prevented World War III through becoming world leaders and diplomacy. Thus, your life would have doomed the entire world to nuclear warfare, giving your life a measure of major negative impact.

See what I'm getting at? This is why I'm becoming more inclined to believe in no divine presence, as it needlessly pushes people to the extremes of "good versus evil". A simple life would suffice, accepting "what happens, happens." instead of worrying yourself to death whether you'd end up in some white landscape in some dimension of paradise, or burning forever in a land of fire and brimestone.

Much easier to sleep at night not believing in divinity or predestination.

I must ask why people would choose to follow Calvinism, with its restrictions? Why would anyone choose to follow Calvinism, knowing that only a few of them would go to heaven and everybody else goes to hell?

Wouldn't Protestant or Christianity, or even Islam be a better choice, where more people would go to heaven, and people can actually earn their way to a "positive" afterlife? That would be much more incentive to do good in the world than Calvinism, where no matter what you do, you're going to hell?

Seriously, these religions actually encourage people to do evil, as they would be like "Why do I even bother helping people if I'm gonna go to hell anyway?"

Personally, I'm leaning towards atheism or agnostic, as it doesn 't have to deal with going to heaven through extreme piety and/or "random chance" or being doomed to go to hell no matter what you do. I think a better philosophy in life would be like this...

"You are born into this life. You gain sentience and consciousness. You then make the best or worst of your life, with choices and consquences. Then once your death-time comes, you look back on the destiny you made for yourself. Then your consciousness either dissipates into nothingness, or is transferred as energy into another life-form.

Add up all the actions you have taken, and the consquences and recuperssions of your actions. The impact of your life will be measured as a positive or negative."

If you benefit the world in some way, such as saving someone's life, then that person in turn has children who find a cure for AIDS. Thus, your life would have a positive impact.

However, if you chose to steal 100 dollars from a father who comes 100 dollars short of the money needed for an operation. Not having an operation would cause the father to develop a tumor 3 years later. Then a person that the father would have met wouldn't have met the father, and not realize the need to quit smoking. The person dies early, and not having children of his own that he would have had. Then the children wouldn't exist, and these children would have prevented World War III through becoming world leaders and diplomacy. Thus, your life would have doomed the entire world to nuclear warfare, giving your life a measure of major negative impact.

See what I'm getting at? This is why I'm becoming more inclined to believe in no divine presence, as it needlessly pushes people to the extremes of "good versus evil". A simple life would suffice, accepting "what happens, happens." instead of worrying yourself to death whether you'd end up in some white landscape in some dimension of paradise, or burning forever in a land of fire and brimestone.

Much easier to sleep at night not believing in divinity or predestination.



Calvinism is a very beautiful thing if you realize your Election and realize you are one of the Elect. It is a very ugly thing, if you look into yourself and realize you are not Elect. It all depends, can you prove to yourself you're Elect? Do you accept the Doctrine of Grace? For as Romans 11:7 says, only the Elect are able to see the truth, the rest are blinded/hardened.

So, can you prove that you ar Elect?

So, can you prove that you ar Elect?


Only the Elect will be able to see the truth (Calvinism) and only the Elect will be drawn by God to accept the truth. I've accepted Calvinism, that is evidence of my realization of my Election.

I really don't have the time or inclinations right now to explain in dozens of paragraphs why I'm better than you.

It basically boils down to.

Me= Clean= Elect

Most people (reprobate)= Unclean

When the Reprobate give themselves unto Satan, they are unclean. I have kept myself clean and I worship only Christ.

Calvinism is a very beautiful thing if you realize your Election and realize you are one of the Elect.

well, of course. it always feels good when you can convince yourself that you are special, that you are better than everybody else, and that you are entitled to special treatment because of your superiority. it feels especially good when you are told that you can look down on other people, that they will suffer while you get a reward, or even that they will be tortured while you enjoy paradise.

oh wait, no, my mistake...those things only feel good when you are a sociopath. people who possess honour and a conscience would find no pleasure in such rampant injustice.


It is a very ugly thing, if you look into yourself and realize you are not Elect. It all depends, can you prove to yourself you're Elect? Do you accept the Doctrine of Grace? For as Romans 11:7 says, only the Elect are able to see the truth, the rest are blinded/hardened.
of course; only the people who agree with you are worth anything. only the people who are part of the in-crowd can play. everybody else can go to hell (literally) because they aren't stepping into line.

seriously, folks, stop humoring this fellow. he makes up threads because he wants to get a rise out of people. he proved that on his ill-fated thread about his professors "racism," and he proves it further on this thread. he's acting like a little kid, enjoying the negative attention he gets, because it makes him feel powerful to be able to get people angry. he knows what buttons to push to get people mad, and he's having a good time pushing away. if you stop letting him get a rise out of you he will get bored and wander away.

seriously, folks, stop humoring this fellow. he makes up threads because he wants to get a rise out of people. he proved that on his ill-fated thread about his professors "racism," and he proves it further on this thread. he's acting like a little kid, enjoying the negative attention he gets, because it makes him feel powerful to be able to get people angry. he knows what buttons to push to get people mad, and he's having a good time pushing away. if you stop letting him get a rise out of you he will get bored and wander away.


I don't make up threads, these are all real. I really did have a meeting with my professor and we discussed my paper.

I really did have a revelation, I don't expect you to believe it though, you're blinded to the truth of God, Romans 11:7. And then since God is speaking through my via my vision, you won't accept that either, since it is a truth of God.

If I wanted a rise out of people, I'd make up some crazy thread, "I'm a gay black muslim!" and try to shock the hell out of people.

I don't post to get attention.

When the Reprobate give themselves unto Satan, they are unclean. I have kept myself clean and I worship only Christ.
Except you are not clean. Do you think being unclean relates only to the act of sex? Sin goes much further than just sex. Being violent, uncaring, proud, amongst others, are also sins. And you are proud. Plus you give sex too much importance.

You think so highly of yourself that you can't stop boasting, you think you can see what God has written in the Book of Life, which only he knows. And yet you don't realize what you're doing (blindness).

An elect, a real one, wouldn't be shouting his exulted status at everyone, wouldn't be boasting about how much he's going to laugh in the afterlife. Above all, an elect would feel the love of God and feel sorry for his fellow men who he can't save.

Anyway, keep believing what you will, if it makes you happy, but I can't help feeling a bit sad for you.

You're all wrong, for as Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD thy God which I command you."

In other words, Paul, Jesus, even the OT prophets like Malachi who disagreed with Moses on divorce, are all in breach of the Torah, the Law of Moses. Even the Talmud is a breach of the Torah. :p

I repeat this for the benefit of VoteEarly and all other people who still foolishly follow this dead Galilean carpenter and false prophet (if he was a true prophet, there would be no Wailing Wall, as he predicted that not ONE would be left on top of another). You're wasting your lives, as all forms of Christianity are false teachings. I don't believe in Judaism, but if I believed in any part of the Bible, I'd believe in the Torah, since it's consistent at least.

I don't make up threads, these are all real. I really did have a meeting with my professor and we discussed my paper.

I really did have a revelation, I don't expect you to believe it though, you're blinded to the truth of God, Romans 11:7. And then since God is speaking through my via my vision, you won't accept that either, since it is a truth of God.


oh, don't worry, i don't believe a word you say.


If I wanted a rise out of people, I'd make up some crazy thread, "I'm a gay black muslim!" and try to shock the hell out of people.


no, because you are quite aware that making such a thread around here wouldn't shock much of anybody. you know that this forum isn't going to react much to a gay black Muslim, but that people will go apeshit if you post racist, sexist, homophobic, Calvinist rants. you know what you are doing, and it's pretty obvious to anybody who cares to look.


I don't post to get attention.

can i see a show of hands, how many people believe that? is that one there in the back? oh, you just need to use the bathroom...yes, you may leave. now, back to the question, do we have any takers?

Except you are not clean. Do you think being unclean relates only to the act of sex? Sin goes much further than just sex. Being violent, uncaring, proud, amongst others, are also sins. And you are proud. Plus you give sex too much importance.

You think so highly of yourself that you can't stop boasting, you think you can see what God has written in the Book of Life, which only he knows. And yet you don't realize what you're doing (blindness).

An elect, a real one, wouldn't be shouting his exulted status at everyone, wouldn't be boasting about how much he's going to laugh in the afterlife. Above all, an elect would feel the love of God and feel sorry for his fellow men who he can't save.

Anyway, keep believing what you will, if it makes you happy, but I can't help feeling a bit sad for you.

The bible is quite clear what makes a man unclean. I am clean. You just can't stand that you're reprobate and are headed for hell.

I am, at times, saddened that so many are headed for hell, but then I remind myself it is the Holy will of the Sovereign Almighty God that the reprobate, those He has predestinated to receive His undying hatred, should suffer. It's only just that those God hates suffer, and those He loves, are in paradise.

Anyway, most people, if given free will, would be evil on their own. But there is no free will.

you know that this forum isn't going to react much to a gay black Muslim, but that people will go apeshit if you post racist, sexist, homophobic, Calvinist rants. you know what you are doing, and it's pretty obvious to anybody who cares to look.




If VoteEarly, me, suddenly posted, "Hey all, I'm not really white, I'm a gay black muslim!" it would get such a rise, it'd be a post of the month sort of thing.

But I don't do fake crap just to get laughs or attention.

I'm a white, God-fearing, heterosexual, Calvinist.

I deny that I am a sexist in all regards and there is no "other term" to describe me in regards to gender issues, since I'm not biased in regards to gender.

I deny that I am a racist and I prefer the term Racialist.

The bible is quite clear what makes a man unclean. I am clean. You just can't stand that you're reprobate and are headed for hell.

Oh, I can stand being a reprobate and head to hell myself just fine. I've made my peace with that. Just look at the name of my website vvvv
[/quote]

Hear now my Revelation, given to me by the true gods, those of Olympus:

The Gods are all aspects of the One, the Cosmos itself. Behold, that if you defy the laws of Nature, you shall be punished with personal misery. If you abstain from the procreative act, you shall be sad and miserable indeed. If you fail to resist evil, evil shall triumph with all injustice. Behold, man is the measure of all things, for man has found the Gods that are part of the One God. Behold, hatred of life and love of death is the great sin upon this Earth, and shall be punished with total destruction, unless man shall repent from it and seek the blessing of the ageless and deathless Gods. Let lust be trusted, for lust shall preserve the human race. Let pride be accepted, except it be the hubris of those who deny the flesh and seek to deprive it. The body, yea, the body is sacred to the Gods who made it through the natural selection of the species. Your revelations shall all come through reason, knowledge, and study of nature. Behold, you shall USE the minds we have given you, for they are wasted if not used.

I repeat this for the benefit of VoteEarly and all other people who still foolishly follow this dead Galilean carpenter and false prophet (if he was a true prophet, there would be no Wailing Wall, as he predicted that not ONE would be left on top of another). You're wasting your lives, as all forms of Christianity are false teachings. I don't believe in Judaism, but if I believed in any part of the Bible, I'd believe in the Torah, since it's consistent at least.

Um, all the parts, upon sytematic study are consistent, but I don't expect you to take the time to find that out, there are men that take their entire lives to study just one or one group of books within the Scripture.

And as for the wailing wall, that wasn't actually part of the temple. It was a second-teir foundational retaining wall. Kind of like, the foundation that the foundation of what was the temple.

Just FYI.

Vote Early, stop it! You don't even know your own doctrine well enough to be defeding it! You are just making yourself look stupid.

Please. if you are the elect, act with dignity for Heaven's sake!


WWJD
Amen.

If VoteEarly, me, suddenly posted, "Hey all, I'm not really white, I'm a gay black muslim!" it would get such a rise, it'd be a post of the month sort of thing.

lol, yeah, we'd make that Post of the Month, right after we all print up our VoteEarly Is King t-shirts and throw a VoteEarly party.


But I don't do fake crap just to get laughs or attention.

I'm a white, God-fearing, heterosexual, Calvinist.


yeah, i'd say those two sentences, back to back, pretty much prove my point beyond any shadow of a doubt. :)

Um, all the parts, upon sytematic study are consistent, but I don't expect you to take the time to find that out, there are men that take their entire lives to study just one or one group of books within the Scripture.

And as for the wailing wall, that wasn't actually part of the temple. It was a second-teir foundational retaining wall. Kind of like, the foundation that the foundation of what was the temple.

Just FYI.

Vote Early, stop it! You don't even know your own doctrine well enough to be defeding it! You are just making yourself look stupid.

Please. if you are the elect, act with dignity for Heaven's sake!


WWJD
Amen.

As it happens, I've read quite a bit of the Bible, which is why I never longer believe it. I've found so many contradictions that it would shock you if you paid attention. I know the Bible too well to believe it at all.

As for the Wailing Wall, it is part of the Temple.

I deny that I am a racist and I prefer the term Racialist.

I deny that this is Earth and prefer the term X8384-Gamma.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world tends to call a spade a spade, Earth Earth, and racists racist. :( Sorry.

Sorry about the penis comment in the other thread, it was a joke, it was a flame, I am a loser, it's over with.


But seriously, why do you guys think you are having the revelations like this? Do you guys sit around and discuss the apocalypse? I know you guys would love to die as God's chosen warriors, but do you think you are and why?

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/deacon.htm

Sorry about the penis comment in the other thread, it was a joke, it was a flame, I am a loser, it's over with.


But seriously, why do you guys think you are having the revelations like this? Do you guys sit around and discuss the apocalypse? I know you guys would love to die as God's chosen warriors, but do you think you are and why?


I am being 100% honest, I had a dream and the dream is post 1, the revelation.

I am currently considering writing all of my revelations, words of wisdom, and commentary on the gospel, down and over the years, write more as more happens, and then make it perhaps an additional book to the bible. But this won't be until I've committed the entire bible to memory, so I can be certain the way I'm commenting and the way I interpret things, is proper and such.

But someday, I think I will publish a book that if the religious authorities of the world were not reprobate, they'd add it to the bible.

I am being 100% honest, I had a dream and the dream is post 1, the revelation.

I am currently considering writing all of my revelations, words of wisdom, and commentary on the gospel, down and over the years, write more as more happens, and then make it perhaps an additional book to the bible. But this won't be until I've committed the entire bible to memory, so I can be certain the way I'm commenting and the way I interpret things, is proper and such.

But someday, I think I will publish a book that if the religious authorities of the world were not reprobate, they'd add it to the bible.

I'm sorry but they are going to be reprobate. Have you and Kahta ever thought of starting up some fundamentalist sect? You probably have, I guess, since most everybody is reprobate. Reprobate.

Now THIS is entertainment.

Don't miss next chapter: How the De Boer have the right to take the land from the black south africans.

Only the Elect will be able to see the truth (Calvinism) and only the Elect will be drawn by God to accept the truth. I've accepted Calvinism, that is evidence of my realization of my Election.

I really don't have the time or inclinations right now to explain in dozens of paragraphs why I'm better than you.

It basically boils down to.

Me= Clean= Elect

Most people (reprobate)= Unclean

When the Reprobate give themselves unto Satan, they are unclean. I have kept myself clean and I worship only Christ.
So in this strange fantasy because you choose to be a calvinist, that act itself proves that you are elect, therefore clean and able to go directly to sit next to God. By this definition I could spend a day murdering, drinking, whoring, and generally behaving badly; realize that "hey, calvin is pretty cool as total nutjobs go." and sign up. Therefore making a concious act to choose calvinism, and recognizing my 'electness' becoming clean and therefore sitting next to you.


That pretty much sum it up?

It basically boils down to.

Me= Clean= Elect

Most people (reprobate)= Unclean

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

That's directly from a Calvinist minister.

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

That's directly from a Calvinist minister.

Yes, that is exactly how Election works. Thank you for posting that.

See.... this is why I renounced my christianity, because almost all christians believe themselves to be in personal contact with God and so much more holy than everyone else, important news for you - there is noone higher than any other in His eyes.... by the way, you slipped up with your attempt at biblical writing several times... and I don't think that God would be particularly bothered if you just wrote it in plain english... He may however become slightly pissed off with you about the shit you're writing in His name.

1 Corinthians 14:30-32
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


1 Corinthians 14:37-40
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.

It's particularly amusing how you're reading these two quotes....

"If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace."
the one 'that sitteth by' is the second; another denotes one who is additional to the original, the first... so let the first hold his peace and don't preach your apocalypse to us.


"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant."
Acknowledge that what is in your holy book are the interpretation of your God's wishes.
Do not teach your beliefs to those who do not wish to know.

Yes, that is exactly how Election works. Thank you for posting that.

So how do you come up with the idea that somehow you're cleaner than the rest of us, if clean doesn't matter?

Now THIS is entertainment.

Don't miss next chapter: How the De Boer have the right to take the land from the black south africans.

I think the de Boer brothers are a little outnumbered.

Oh, and the prophecy concerned the city of Jerusalem itself, not just the Temple.

Well, I hate to break it to everyone, but I talk to God every night, and He never said anything about you.

Also, He doesn't seem to speak in King Jamesian prose.

My prayer to Jupiter Optimus Maximus:

O Mighty Jupiter Optimus Maximus, if you so wish to be addressed, otherwise I shall call you by whatever name you choose, you who are whatever sex you prefer, hear now my prayer and send these fools a revelation of common sense that will make them see the folly of their false god and his cross. Make them see the so-called Apostles as the liars that they were, and their god as clearly being mortal, seeing as he was slain, and no true god may be slain. This I pray to you in your absolute Wisdom.

I am being 100% honest, I had a dream and the dream is post 1, the revelation.

I am currently considering writing all of my revelations, words of wisdom, and commentary on the gospel, down and over the years, write more as more happens, and then make it perhaps an additional book to the bible. But this won't be until I've committed the entire bible to memory, so I can be certain the way I'm commenting and the way I interpret things, is proper and such.

But someday, I think I will publish a book that if the religious authorities of the world were not reprobate, they'd add it to the bible.


Bwhaaaahaaa, I mock your arrogance. If you can say people are going to Hell for various reasons without censure, than I less than repectfully submit that you should consider yourself predestined (double or otherwise) for a firey lake all your own.

I like this one

Calvinist reason for god

CALVINISTIC ARGUMENT
(1) If God exists, then he will let me watch you be tortured forever.
(2) I rather like that idea.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

Well, I hate to break it to everyone, but I talk to God every night, and He never said anything about you.

Also, He doesn't seem to speak in King Jamesian prose.

Weird. God speaks old Arabic with me.

I think the de Boer brothers are a little outnumbered.

I'd back them in a 2 on 2 match. They're over the hill and all, but who's going to partner Fortune?

Well, I hate to break it to everyone, but I talk to God every night, and He never said anything about you.

Also, He doesn't seem to speak in King Jamesian prose.


Really? when I talked to God he had a LOT to say about him!

It was just hard to make out the details because God was laughing too hard.....

I'd back them in a 2 on 2 match. They're over the hill and all, but who's going to partner Fortune?

Aaron Winters could come out of retirment.

Most sins are sexual in nature, or are heresy in nature.

A failure to appreciate and accept the 5 Points of Calvinism, the doctrine of Grace.
Divorce (under any circumstances. Divorce is NEVER acceptable)
Adultery
Fornication
Beastiality
Homosexuality
Idolatry
Blasphemy
Heresy
(Breaking any of the 10 commandments)

Those are just the first few that came to my mind, but the list is long, indeed possibly endless, most things man does, disgust God. Only the tiny few, the Elect, who do right and follow His words, is He pleased with. And they alone are the only reason He has not destroyed the world once again, as was done in the days of Noah.

How curious... I know already, just from what you have said in this thread... that you, personally, are a sinner by at least three of those definitions.

I guess 'god' isn't very selective about his 'elect'.

How curious... I know already, just from what you have said in this thread... that you, personally, are a sinner by at least three of those definitions.

I guess 'god' isn't very selective about his 'elect'.

Let me guess...he's a divorced homosexual adulterer?

Am I the only one who is seeing a little Waco/David Koresh thing developing with these two?

It might have already been said.

Only the Elect will be able to see the truth (Calvinism) and only the Elect will be drawn by God to accept the truth. I've accepted Calvinism, that is evidence of my realization of my Election.

I really don't have the time or inclinations right now to explain in dozens of paragraphs why I'm better than you.

It basically boils down to.

Me= Clean= Elect

Most people (reprobate)= Unclean

When the Reprobate give themselves unto Satan, they are unclean. I have kept myself clean and I worship only Christ.

This is so funny.

I have met ex-Calvinists.... which means that they were drawn by god, to accept the truth, and then realised it was a lie....

I guess the 'elect' can un-elect themselves...

Surely 'god' would never let one of his 'elect' leave the church.. imagine how that would look to all the 'reprobates'....

Let me guess...he's a divorced homosexual adulterer?

Actually, I was going for Heresy, Adultery and Fornication... since he has already spoken against the one 'true' church, and has admitted to the lustful imaginings that constitute the 'thought' part of the sins of adultery and fornication.

Regarding 'homosexual'... I wasn't thinking of that... but he DID say that he could have got laid a lot at school, and he ALSO said he had no interest in women....

So, who knows?

How curious... I know already, just from what you have said in this thread... that you, personally, are a sinner by at least three of those definitions.

I guess 'god' isn't very selective about his 'elect'.

By the definition of unconditional election, those chosen to be Elect may well be sinners, or be completely unwilling (even after Election).

VoteEarly's assertion that he is somehow "clean" is illogical and unfounded, even if we assume that Calvinism is correct. There is nothing about the doctrine of Unconditional Election that says that VoteEarly, if he is indeed one of the Elect, is in any way, shape, form, or thought, any better than the rest of us.

If I wanted a rise out of people, I'd make up some crazy thread...

How ironic...

Bush is an idolator, a false teacher, a member of the Bohemian Grove (Satanic secret society of occultists) and he is a main player in the New World Order and the International Banking cartel.

He is not a Christian by any stretch of the imagination. His visions are not of God, but of Satan.

I agree 100%. Bush is an NWO whore just like his daddy, George H.W. "I Never Met a Dictator I Didn't Like" Bush.

After some negotiation, Ami Perrin, commissioner for Geneva, persuaded Calvin to return. He did so, though unwillingly, on September 13, 1541. His entry was modest. Geneva was a church-city-state of 15,000 people, and the church constitution now recognized "pastors, doctors, elders and deacons," but the supreme power was given to the magistrate, John Calvin. In November 1552, the Council declared Calvin's Institutes to be a "holy doctrine which no man might speak against." Thus the State issued dogmatic decrees, the force of which had been anticipated earlier, as when Jacques Gruet, a known opponent of Calvin, was arrested, tortured for a month and beheaded on July 26, 1547, for placing a letter in Calvin's pulpit calling him a hypocrite. Gruet's book was later found and burned along with his house while his wife was thrown out into the street to watch. Gruet's death was more highly criticized by far than the banishment of Castellio or the penalties inflicted on Bolsec -- moderate men opposed to extreme views in discipline and doctrine, who fell under suspicion as reactionary. Calvin did not shrink from his self-appointed task. Within five years fifty-eight sentences of death and seventy-six of exile, besides numerous committals of the most eminent citizens to prison, took place in Geneva. The iron yoke could not be shaken off. In 1555, under Ami Perrin, a revolt was attempted. No blood was shed, but Perrin lost the day, and Calvin's theocracy triumphed. John Calvin had secured his grip on Geneva by defeating the very man, Ami Perrin, commissioner of Geneva, who had invited him there.

Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism falsely teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect. Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva because that is what his theology teaches.

Michael Servetus, a Spaniard, a physician, a scientist and a Bible scholar was born in Villanova in 1511. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart. He was Calvin's longtime friend in their earlier resistance against the Roman Catholic Church. Servetus, while living in Vienne (historic city in southeastern France), angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin's writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. Servetus was arrested by the Roman Catholic Authorities on April 4 but escaped on April 7, 1553. He traveled to Geneva where he attended Calvin's Sunday preaching service on August 13. Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin's theology. The thirty-eight official charges included rejection of the Trinity and infant baptism. Servetus was correct in challenging Calvin's false teaching about infant baptism leading to salvation, but he was heretical in his rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity. Servetus pleaded to be beheaded instead of the more brutal method of burning at the stake, but Calvin and the city council refused the quicker death method. Other Protestant churches throughout Switzerland advised Calvin that Servetus be condemned but not executed. Calvin ignored their pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553. Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible. Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus. The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus' face as he screamed in agony.

John Calvin was proud of his killing of Servetus, bragging and celebrating. Many theological and state leaders criticized Calvin for the unwarranted killing of Servetus, but it fell on deaf ears as Calvin advised others to do the same. Calvin wrote much in following years in a continual attempt to justify his burning of Servetus. Some people claim Calvin favored beheading, but this does not fit charges of heresy for which the punishment as written by Calvin earlier was to be burning at the stake. Calvin had made a vow years earlier that Servetus would never leave Geneva alive if he were ever captured, and Calvin held true to his pledge.

Another victim of Calvin's fiery zeal was Gentile of an Italian sect in Geneva, which also numbered among its adherents Alciati and Gribaldo. More or less Unitarian in their views, they were required to sign a confession drawn up by Calvin in 1558. Gentile signed it reluctantly, but in the upshot he was condemned and imprisoned as a perjurer. He escaped only to be twice incarcerated at Berne where, in 1566, he was beheaded. Calvin also had twenty women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545.

The citizens of Geneva hated John Calvin as he clearly stated. In 1554 Calvin wrote "Dogs bark at me on all sides. Everywhere I am saluted with the name of 'heretic,' and all the calumnies that can possibly be invented are heaped upon me; in a word, the enemies among my own flock attack me with greater bitterness than my declared enemies among the papists." Calvin, quoted in Schaff, History, volume 8, page 496.

John Calvin had no love, no compassion, no patience and no tolerance for those who did not believe his Institutes. Criticism of Calvin's Institutes was considered heresy for which the sentence was death by burning at the stake. To his dying day Calvin preached and taught from his works. By no means an aged man, he was worn out in these frequent controversies. On April 25, 1564, he made his will, leaving 225 French crowns, of which he bequeathed ten to his college, ten to the poor, and the remainder to his nephews and nieces. His last letter was addressed to Farel. He was buried without pomp in a spot which is not now ascertainable. In the year 1900 a monument of expiation was erected to Servetus in the Place Champel. Geneva has long since ceased to be the head of Calvinism.

John Calvin's murder of people who held different doctrinal views, his failure to acknowledge or repent from his sins, his incomplete gospel, his placing of his own writings above the Bible, his distortion of God and the Scriptures, and his dependence upon infant baptism places into question his salvation. In all of his writings is not found a clear declaration of his salvation by faith in the birth, life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Calvin was a cruel, murderous, tyrant who considered himself to be the pope of Geneva.

I am a christian, and here is what tells me that you are desperate for attention.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


This implies that the antichrist will rise from a time of peace. and will bring peace until near the end of the tribulation, when satan will indwell in the beast himself. And what about 300 elect. are you saying that 300 poeple are going to heven. i don;t ebleive in predestination.

How curious... I know already, just from what you have said in this thread... that you, personally, are a sinner by at least three of those definitions.

I guess 'god' isn't very selective about his 'elect'.



I've done nothing on that list! You're blatantly lying and so I'm asking you to please either stop lying or leave my thread. Your choice.

I've done nothing on that list! You're blatantly lying and so I'm asking you to please either stop lying or leave my thread. Your choice.

Conceptually, it doesn't matter to Calvin if you've done everything on that list, or nothing on that list. Election is unconditional. You could be the worst person in the world, and completely unrepentant, and completely unwilling to be among the Elect, and still be Elected.

Actually, I was going for Heresy, Adultery and Fornication... since he has already spoken against the one 'true' church, and has admitted to the lustful imaginings that constitute the 'thought' part of the sins of adultery and fornication.

Regarding 'homosexual'... I wasn't thinking of that... but he DID say that he could have got laid a lot at school, and he ALSO said he had no interest in women....

So, who knows?


Please don't suggest I'm gay, I take that as flamebait. Now I am asking you, politely, please leave my thread, you're not welcome here.


I never said I have no interest in women, I don't have an interest in women who debase themselves by acting like whores and not proper young ladies that they ought to be.

A few questions:

Do you have to be a Calvinist to be a member of the 'Elect?'

How do you know if you're going to Heaven or Hell?

What's the difference between a racist and a racialist?

Now I am asking you, politely, please leave my thread, you're not welcome here.


Bad luck, I'm fairly sure the thread is essentially public domain. Actually it's probably the property of Max Barry, or Jolt, or someone else. Regardless of this, you don't have the power to evict people as if the thread was some kind of building that you owned.

John Calvin was a murderer who enjoyed burning people alive and bragging about it. Obviously, election is unconditional.

calvanism is a joke. the initiator was a heretic and was a despot.



next.

John Calvin was a murderer who enjoyed burning people alive and bragging about it. Obviously, election is unconditional.

Source?

(I don't know much about Calvin, sorry. :()

Conceptually, it doesn't matter to Calvin if you've done everything on that list, or nothing on that list. Election is unconditional. You could be the worst person in the world, and completely unrepentant, and completely unwilling to be among the Elect, and still be Elected.


calvin was a man, he died, his 'theology' is the opinion of one, sad, bitter, man. Nothing matters now to calvin other than the difficulty of getting a good sunblock in hell.

I've done nothing on that list! You're blatantly lying and so I'm asking you to please either stop lying or leave my thread. Your choice.

Untrue... so now you lie... will you leave the thread?

You have admitted in this thread... that you wrote 'roleplay' scenarios of a sexual nature.

The bible is clear - the thought is the deed.

Thus, you are a fornicator and adulterer in mind... and also spirit, and body.

Or the bible is wrong... you chose.

Also - since you deny the possibility of salvation through grace (favouring salvation through election), you are a heretic... to the rest of the Christian church - which existed long before Calvinism.

You are hoist by your own petard.

I am merely the messenger... beware - your sins HAVE found you out.

A few questions:

Do you have to be a Calvinist to be a member of the 'Elect?'

How do you know if you're going to Heaven or Hell?

What's the difference between a racist and a racialist?



1) Yes and no. God can Elect you, and you're unaware of it, but some point in your life before you die, you'll be drawn to accept Calvinist and thus become aware of your Election.

2) If you're aware of your Election you're surely going to heaven and can know this. If you're unaware, you'll just have to wait until the time comes for you to either realize your Election or you die and go to hell. (All Elect will realize their Election before they die)

3) Racists are just haters and have no knowledge of real racial politics and issues. Racialists are folks who just want their kind to be preserved and they oppose anything that threatens their nations and peoples.

Please don't suggest I'm gay, I take that as flamebait. Now I am asking you, politely, please leave my thread, you're not welcome here.


I never said I have no interest in women, I don't have an interest in women who debase themselves by acting like whores and not proper young ladies that they ought to be.


I didn't say you were gay.

Do I have to go back and link to the post where you said it?

You at least should keep your story straight, if you are going to act the troll.

Source?

(I don't know much about Calvin, sorry. :()

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm

The parts about Servetus on that page are all independently verifiable.

snip

Thanks for the clarification(s). :)

Please check TG's.

Untrue... so now you lie... will you leave the thread?

You have admitted in this thread... that you wrote 'roleplay' scenarios of a sexual nature.

The bible is clear - the thought is the deed.

Thus, you are a fornicator and adulterer in mind... and also spirit, and body.

Or the bible is wrong... you chose.

Also - since you deny the possibility of salvation through grace (favouring salvation through election), you are a heretic... to the rest of the Christian church - which existed long before Calvinism.

You are hoist by your own petard.

I am merely the messenger... beware - your sins HAVE found you out.


I am neither a fornicator or an adulteror. Read the Song of Solomon and see just what is in the bible...

I have not committed the sins of which you speak, and you are not a messenger of God, so I shall receive you not, as is commanded, nor shall I wish you Godspeed.

John Calvin was a murderer who enjoyed burning people alive and bragging about it. Obviously, election is unconditional.


Lie, Calvin was no murderer. Let me go find the truth about this, brb.

“In five years, 1542-46, Geneva, with 16,000 inhabitants, had fifty-seven executions and seventy-six banishments. All these sentences were sanctioned by Calvin.”

Lars P. Qualben, A History of the Christian Church, p. 272.

3) Racists are just haters and have no knowledge of real racial politics and issues. Racialists are folks who just want their kind to be preserved and they oppose anything that threatens their nations and peoples.The only difference I see is one group trying to hide behind three letters. There are no differences, race is a social not biological construct and using psuedoscience to explain your predjudices doesn't make them any less repugnant.

This is MY revelation, a vision God gifted me with.

been on the psilocybin recently?

The only difference I see is one group trying to hide behind three letters. There are no differences, race is a social not biological construct and using psuedoscience to explain your predjudices doesn't make them any less repugnant.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6975009/


WASHINGTON - The first effort to map variations in the human DNA code reveals patterns in three ancestral populations — European, African and Chinese — that go back thousands of years, scientists reported Thursday. They said the trend could lead to medical treatments tailored for your specific genetic background, but they also worried that it could spawn a 21st-century style of racial discrimination.

“In five years, 1542-46, Geneva, with 16,000 inhabitants, had fifty-seven executions and seventy-six banishments. All these sentences were sanctioned by Calvin.”

Lars P. Qualben, A History of the Christian Church, p. 272.



Catholic Inquistion, witch burnings, etc... Need I go on...

there is only one reason I don't believe you, VoteEarly, and that's:
if you had seriously had a revelation, I think you'd be shouting it form the hilltops, rather than starting an online thread on some random website whilst obviously sitting there at your computer with some snacks, wearing nothing but underwear.

there is only one reason I don't believe you, VoteEarly, and that's:
if you had seriously had a revelation, I think you'd be shouting it form the hilltops, rather than starting an online thread on some random website whilst obviously sitting there at your computer with some snacks, wearing nothing but underwear.


I never am sitting around in my underwear eating snacks. The only time it's appropriate to be in just your underwear is when you're asleep and covered by a blanket in bed, and even then I wear shorts and a t-shirt.

VoteEarly.. might I ask..

Is there more than one passage of the bible talk concerning Election?

And can i have the verses? Just the verses.. Coming from all the new testament books. Or is it just one small portion of a book?

there is only one reason I don't believe you, VoteEarly, and that's:
if you had seriously had a revelation, I think you'd be shouting it form the hilltops, rather than starting an online thread on some random website whilst obviously sitting there at your computer with some snacks, wearing nothing but underwear.


Oh, if I went around the cities and hilltops shouting "The world is coming to end, you reprobate shall be damned into hell!", they'd haul me off to a clinic and lock me away. But then again, the bible does say those who preach the true word of God will be persecuted to the ends of the earth.

Catholic Inquistion, witch burnings, etc... Need I go on...

I guess then, that justified Calvin gloating over the burning of a man, and deliberately stoking the fire with green wood so that the suffering would take time, and continually gloating over the man in front of the crowd as the man burned.

He did this many times. Not just once. Does the fact that the Catholic Church had men who committed atrocities justify Calvin's commission of atrocities?

God is Love, my friend. Something Calvin could never grasp. He believed in a hateful, vengeful God - something a hateful, vengeful man could get his thoughts around.

VoteEarly.. might I ask..

Is there more than one passage of the bible talk concerning Election?

And can i have the verses? Just the verses.. Coming from all the new testament books. Or is it just one small portion of a book?



Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.

2 John 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

I guess then, that justified Calvin gloating over the burning of a man, and deliberately stoking the fire with green wood so that the suffering would take time, and continually gloating over the man in front of the crowd as the man burned.

He did this many times. Not just once. Does the fact that the Catholic Church had men who committed atrocities justify Calvin's commission of atrocities?

God is Love, my friend. Something Calvin could never grasp. He believed in a hateful, vengeful God - something a hateful, vengeful man could get his thoughts around.


Malachi 1:2-3 "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." God hates! When will you accept that?

Twin boys, in the womb, not even born yet, and God already hated one of them. You hate the notion that God hates people, why? (Are you afraid you're one of the people God hates?)

Catholic Inquistion, witch burnings, etc... Need I go on...
yeah, and because Hitler killed a whole bunch of people that means it's just fine if i decide to go murder one or two folks i don't like.

The Scriptures clearly teach that salvation is available to all who will receive. [John 3:16, Acts 17:30, 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Rev. 22:17].

God calls even those who will ultimately reject Him. Saul was "CHOSEN" ["elect"] by God to be king of Israel.

1 Sam 10:23-24
23 And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.
24 And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
(KJV)

Even after God's election of Saul to be king of Israel, God later rejected him.

1 Sam 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
(KJV)

We see a principle in the story of Saul, a precedent that we can apply to "election." God "chose" a man knowing full well that later He would reject him. This flies in the face of both "Unconditional Election" and "Perseverance of the Saints."

Malachi 1:2-3 "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." God hates! When will you accept that?

Twin boys, in the womb, not even born yet, and God already hated one of them. You hate the notion that God hates people, why? (Are you afraid you're one of the people God hates?)

Bible trivia: Esau was born red and hairy.

By the way, God can't have hated Esau that much. Esau fathered an entire nation, the Edomites. Still, he got his birthright stolen by Jacob. And then Jacob married his cousins.

EDIT: Also, Jacob and Esau weren't twins. If they were twins, they would both be red/hairy, or both be 'standard'.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6975009/


WASHINGTON - The first effort to map variations in the human DNA code reveals patterns in three ancestral populations — European, African and Chinese — that go back thousands of years, scientists reported Thursday. They said the trend could lead to medical treatments tailored for your specific genetic background, but they also worried that it could spawn a 21st-century style of racial discrimination.
dude, where have you people BEEN since 1978?! have you not been clued in yet?

electrophoresis of proteins established, DECADES AGO, that there is GREATER GENETIC VARIATION BETWEEN MEMBERS OF A SINGLE RATIAL GROUP THAN THERE IS BETWEEN DIFFERENT RACIAL GROUPS.

i mean, seriously. most of this shit has been known for longer than i have been alive. recent DNA experimentation has confirmed it. it's not up for debate any more, hasn't been for a goddam long time. GENETICS IS NOT A VIABLE JUSTIFICATION FOR RACISM. it hasn't been in YEARS AND YEARS.

read a book.

Malachi 1:2-3 "Jacob have I loved, Esau have I hated." God hates! When will you accept that?

Twin boys, in the womb, not even born yet, and God already hated one of them. You hate the notion that God hates people, why? (Are you afraid you're one of the people God hates?)

Are you hateful because no one loves you?

The Scriptures clearly teach that salvation is available to all who will receive. [John 3:16, Acts 17:30, 1 Tim. 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Rev. 22:17].

God calls even those who will ultimately reject Him. Saul was "CHOSEN" ["elect"] by God to be king of Israel.

1 Sam 10:23-24
23 And they ran and fetched him thence: and when he stood among the people, he was higher than any of the people from his shoulders and upward.
24 And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.
(KJV)

Even after God's election of Saul to be king of Israel, God later rejected him.

1 Sam 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
(KJV)

We see a principle in the story of Saul, a precedent that we can apply to "election." God "chose" a man knowing full well that later He would reject him. This flies in the face of both "Unconditional Election" and "Perseverance of the Saints."


Saul wasn't predestinated to Election, only to be a king, a worldly king. He was never saved, so he can't have been "unsaved".

Are you hateful because no one loves you?



No, I am loved by my father. I am hateful because God wants me to hate reprobate, because God Himself hates them.

But then again, the bible does say those who preach the true word of God will be persecuted to the ends of the earth.
wow, i was wrong...there IS one, single, solitary fact that the Bible got right :).

there is only one reason I don't believe you, VoteEarly, and that's:
if you had seriously had a revelation, I think you'd be shouting it form the hilltops, rather than starting an online thread on some random website whilst obviously sitting there at your computer with some snacks, wearing nothing but underwear.

No Cress, let's be fair, he may well have had a revelation, but it doesn't mean it's going to come true. The Elect will blantantly lose.

No, I am loved by my father. I am hateful because God wants me to hate reprobate, because God Himself hates them.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

I know why you're so full of hate.

Catholic Inquistion, witch burnings, etc... Need I go on...


I have really wish the Inquisition would find you. They still exist and their head; Cardinal Ratzinger, is likely to be the next pope. The Inquisition was for people like you who need to be held accountable for the crap they think and write. In no uncertain terms are you qualified to 'interpret' anything more significant than your own fecal matter; or your own ravings, whichever is less stinky to you. Go ahead, see you in moderation, but check out this first will you,

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/

See you in hell heretic

No, I am loved by my father. I am hateful because God wants me to hate reprobate, because God Himself hates them.

Can't you kiss and make up with us reprobate? Come on, let's have some hippy free love. :fluffle:
If a reprobate does fluffle you on the left cheek, turn to him the right also.

I have really wish the Inquisition would find you. They still exist and their head; Cardinal Ratzinger, is likely to be the next pope. The Inquisition was for people like you who need to be held accountable for the crap they think and write. In no uncertain terms are you qualified to 'interpret' anything more significant than your own fecal matter; or your own ravings, whichever is less stinky to you. Go ahead, see you in moderation, but check out this first will you,

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/

See you in hell heretic

The Inqusition is EVIL. So is Calvinism. You're both wrong, and you both have that right to be wrong.

I have really wish the Inquisition would find you. They still exist and their head; Cardinal Ratzinger, is likely to be the next pope. The Inquisition was for people like you who need to be held accountable for the crap they think and write. In no uncertain terms are you qualified to 'interpret' anything more significant than your own fecal matter; or your own ravings, whichever is less stinky to you. Go ahead, see you in moderation, but check out this first will you,

http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/

See you in hell heretic

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!