NationStates Jolt Archive

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(

Whats the statistics in the US currently..

1/3 of all girls by the age of 21 have gotten pregnant at least once?

Me find statistics now... brb.

Man.. it's getting very sad and drastic.

http://www.teenpregnancy.org/resources/data/genlfact.asp

How bad is the problem?


The United States has the highest rates of teen pregnancy and births in the western industrialized world. Teen pregnancy costs the United States at least $7 billion annually.

Thirty-four percent of young women become pregnant at least once before they reach the age of 20 -- about 820,000 a year. Eight in ten of these pregnancies are unintended and 79 percent are to unmarried teens.

The teen birth rate has declined slowly but steadily from 1991 to 2002 with an overall decline of 30 percent for those aged 15 to 19. These recent declines reverse the 23-percent rise in the teenage birth rate from 1986 to 1991. The largest decline since 1991 by race was for black women. The birth rate for black teens aged 15 to 19 fell 42 percent between 1991 to 2002. Hispanic teen birth rates declined 20 percent between 1991 and 2002. The rates of both Hispanics and blacks, however, remain higher than for other groups. Hispanic teens now have the highest teenage birth rates. Most teenagers giving birth before 1980 were married whereas most teens giving birth today are unmarried. For more detail, including state by state rates, click here.

The younger a teenaged girl is when she has sex for the first time, the more likely she is to have had unwanted or non-voluntary sex. Close to four in ten girls who had first intercourse at 13 or 14 report it was either non-voluntary or unwanted.

Who suffers the consequences?


Teen mothers are less likely to complete high school (only one-third receive a high school diploma) and only 1.5% have a college degree by age 30. Teen mothers are more likely to end up on welfare (nearly 80 percent of unmarried teen mothers end up on welfare).

The children of teenage mothers have lower birth weights, are more likely to perform poorly in school, and are at greater risk of abuse and neglect.

The sons of teen mothers are 13 percent more likely to end up in prison while teen daughters are 22 percent more likely to become teen mothers themselves. :(

[Moderator Edit - Cogitation] Fixed broken link. [/modedit]

Quite depressing. That is why Bush is pushing for abstinance only sex ed. Guys don;t seem to like condoms, many refuse to use them, so what's the point. By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know. Either use a condom (not like you can't go on late night tv and learn that) or don't have sex. Pills are also not reliable, because women often froget to take them. The only contraceptivce that has a 100% success rate is abstinence.

If you don;t think that they get enough sex education, you are either locked in a dimly lit room, think all kids are idiots, or do not believe that people should deal with their own mistakes (naive as all getout)

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.

Kind of off subject, but my mom's best friend was murdered by her "boyfriend" only 1 month before I was born. My mom was the last person she spoke to. :(

Those are scary statistics, Greedy. I think there are two problems in Western society regarding sex and teenage pregnancies. The first is the overwhelming importance that's placed on sex as an activity which has taken any meaning from the act and just converted it into a symbol of status.

Now, I'm not against casual, informed sex between consenting adults looking for a way to pass the time, but even that's very different from teens looking to "score" and have something to brag about later in school or two 16 y.o. who think that their relationship is ready to move to the next step.

The second problem is the lack of education regarding sex. Note that I write education and not information. Information there's plenty, but without the right context it becomes useless. It's also worrying that in the States, instead of providing better education, people think that ignoring the problem, or its causes, will make it go away.

Quite depressing. That is why Bush is pushing for abstinance only sex ed. Guys don;t seem to like condoms, many refuse to use them, so what's the point. By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know. Either use a condom (not like you can't go on late night tv and learn that) or don't have sex. Pills are also not reliable, because women often froget to take them. The only contraceptivce that has a 100% success rate is abstinence.

If you don;t think that they get enough sex education, you are either locked in a dimly lit room, think all kids are idiots, or do not believe that people should deal with their own mistakes (naive as all getout)

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.
What bullshit. Abstinence ed does NOT teach ANYTHING, it even ignores the fact that they are going to have sex regardless and in light of the fact it is even more useless. This is not even to mention the fact that 30% of the abstinence ed programs being paid for wern't even teachnig facts

Guys don;t seem to like condoms, many refuse to use them, so what's the point. By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know. Either use a condom (not like you can't go on late night tv and learn that) or don't have sex.

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.

What is frightening about this refusal to use condoms, is not just the disrespect for the risks of pregnancy, but the total stupidity with respect to AIDS.

Anyone who rapes anyone, whatever the reason is evil. (I mean that)

Quite depressing. That is why Bush is pushing for abstinance only sex ed. Guys don;t seem to like condoms, many refuse to use them, so what's the point. By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know. Either use a condom (not like you can't go on late night tv and learn that) or don't have sex. Pills are also not reliable, because women often froget to take them. The only contraceptivce that has a 100% success rate is abstinence.

If you don;t think that they get enough sex education, you are either locked in a dimly lit room, think all kids are idiots, or do not believe that people should deal with their own mistakes (naive as all getout)

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.


I didn't even really know what semen was at age 12. Heck, I didn't know what masturbation was until age 14-15. I had no idea that anal or oral sex even existed until age 15-16. I had, probably about age 14, considered that anal sex was just something queers did. I never had any concept that straight people could do it too.

What is frightening about this refusal to use condoms, is not just the disrespect for the risks of pregnancy, but the total stupidity with respect to AIDS.

Anyone who rapes anyone, whatever the reason is evil. (I mean that)


Rapists ought to be publicly hanged, and their bodies left to be eaten and pecked at by vultures and crows. What more can I say, they're sick people and deserve the rope.

... and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.



According to you, 75% of all men are rapists?

:eek:

According to you, 75% of all men are rapists?

:eek:
Then I am a member of the proud minority! I have never forced any woman to get laid with me! :D

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

...

Okay, seriously? It's probably just a miscommunication of the statistics.

Autocraticama, can you link to a source, please?

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Then I am a member of the proud minority! I have never forced any woman to get laid with me! :D

Does getting her drunk count? :)

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(
what does being single have to do with it?
husbands kill pregnant wives too

Whats the statistics in the US currently..

1/3 of all girls by the age of 21 have gotten pregnant at least once?

Me find statistics now... brb.

Man.. it's getting very sad and drastic.
Aren't you kind of shifting the focus away from violence againt women to the issue of pregnancy?

Thanks Cogitation for the linky fix. :)

Does getting her drunk count? :)
If it did count, I'd still be in the minority. :p

--The Jovial States of Cogitation

...

what does being single have to do with it?
husbands kill pregnant wives too
Sadly, I have to agree with Ashmoria. I am reminded of the Scott and Laci Peterson case that hit the news, a year or two ago. For non-Americans: I'm referring to a high-profile murder case that was covered in the news media at the time.

I would generalize Eutrusca's statement to: Know who your significant other is before you get laid with him or get married to him.

On top of this, I would add: If he's disrespectful to you, then that's a bad sign.

Please, "Think about it for a moment." Your life may depend on it.

...

Greedy Pig: Your're welcome.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

Quite depressing.

Yes. Agreed.

That is why Bush is pushing for abstinance only sex ed.

Does more harm than good.

By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know.

No ... you need to know a lot more than just that.

The only contraceptivce that has a 100% success rate is abstinence.

True ...

If you don't think that they get enough sex education, you are either locked in a dimly lit room, think all kids are idiots, or do not believe that people should deal with their own mistakes (naive as all getout)

What they don't get is enough talk from their parents. No, not all kids are idiots, but a great majority of them have a "rebel against authority" streak and guess what authority is telling them ... Abstain or Wear a Condom! Teenager hears this from authority and says, "Fuck them. They don't know what they're talking about. I know everything and I'm immortal!" It's just part of being a teenager.

They don't need sex education. Most teenagers already know all about sex. What they don't know, however, is what happens afterwards. People seem to be concerning themselves too much with the before and not the after. Teenagers will have sex. That is an undeniable fact. Not all, mind you, but many. You can tell them about abstinence and condoms all you want, but it isn't going to change a damn thing.

Talk to your kids - don't let the schools do it for you - from the time they first start becoming curious about "where babies come from". Do not be embarrassed and do not make up cute stories about storks and cabbage patches. Don't lay any stigmas, either. Don't start off with "when a mommy and daddy" blah blah blah. Why? Because then they somehow will get it in their head that only married people can get pregnant.

Be honest with your teenagers as well. Ask them ... frequently ... if they understand human reproduction and do your best to educate them about diseases and whatnot. You won't be able to stop them and you won't be able to force them to wear a condom, but maybe ... just maybe ... you'll be able to scare them enough into being cautious.

75% of the time, he will just forcibly have sex with her.

Huh?

Edit: Oh ... to add to the above ... if any of ya'll have a teenage daughter and she gets pregnant and you subsequently punish her for it or kick her out of the house or force her to get an abortion, I will personally come to your house and slap the taste out of your mouth. Be supportive. Remember: That's your grandchild in there.

Yes, lets blame the women. Because abusive men come with it tattooed to their forehead.. :rolleyes:

Let's not forget the sick puppies who, unable to have their own children, have murdered and 'harvested' premature children -- I can think of a number of stories so far...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/21/stolen.fetus/
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041221-045516-4293r.htm

Yes, lets blame the women. Because abusive men come with it tattooed to their forehead.. :rolleyes:
It's true...you can't always know a person inside and out, no matter how much time you spend with them. Many women have married (or begun dating) men who seemed perfectly normal, and loving, and had no criminal record or any history of violence toward women, only to find that that all changed when it came to them. More support needs to be given to women who find themselves in abusive relationships so they can get out SAFELY...it's a sad fact that many a woman has been tracked down to a shelter and beaten or murdered there.

Let's not forget the sick puppies who, unable to have their own children, have murdered and 'harvested' premature children -- I can think of a number of stories so far...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/12/21/stolen.fetus/
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041221-045516-4293r.htm
Ewww...let's not!

I don't think it's quite as prevalent...but still very sick.

Yes, lets blame the women. Because abusive men come with it tattooed to their forehead.. :rolleyes:

That would be fun. No jail, no community service, nothing but a court ordered forehead tattoo that says "Abuser of Women" or "Abuser of Children" and let society work it out.

Aren't you kind of shifting the focus away from violence againt women to the issue of pregnancy?

I am? Well.. the topic is on 'single moms' hence teenage pregnancy (which is the most common occurance or the most dire in need of attention). And when Entrusca is talking about 'murder' he's talking about Abortions.

That would be fun. No jail, no community service, nothing but a court ordered forehead tattoo that says "Abuser of Women" or "Abuser of Children" and let society work it out.

All in favour say "I"

*I* :)

I am? Well.. the topic is on 'single moms' hence teenage pregnancy (which is the most common occurance or the most dire in need of attention). And when Entrusca is talking about 'murder' he's talking about Abortions.

First of all, most single mothers are not teenagers and second abortion is not murder. It's legal. Until it becomes illegal, perhaps we shouldn't call it murder. A woman's body, a woman's choice. It's so very easy for men to decide what women should do with their bodies. Sheesh.

That would be fun. No jail, no community service, nothing but a court ordered forehead tattoo that says "Abuser of Women" or "Abuser of Children" and let society work it out.

Good idea, but could eventually backfire. Especially where the line would be drawn on 'abuse' and abuse of the system.

Like if the father and mother canes/spank his child (lets not go into spanking.. but as an example), and the child goes to court against the father. And about Women, who perhaps hired someone else to hit her just to make it look like the boyfriend whacked her up because the bf left her?

That would be fun. No jail, no community service, nothing but a court ordered forehead tattoo that says "Abuser of Women" or "Abuser of Children" and let society work it out.
Sadly, this would just lead to revenge, where people brutally murder those with the tattoo. And sadly, our justice system isn't perfect, which might lead to innocents getting said tattoo.

Edit: Oh ... to add to the above ... if any of ya'll have a teenage daughter and she gets pregnant and you subsequently punish her for it or kick her out of the house or force her to get an abortion, I will personally come to your house and slap the taste out of your mouth. Be supportive. Remember: That's your grandchild in there.

I agree with the rest, but you have no right to impose your values and your ideals on anyone else.
Or are you personally going to adopt every child born into misery out of ignorance?
Look at a society where abortion is illegal and socially frowned upon. There you will see poverty and misery for the majority of the children. Your religious beliefs are yours, you have the right to state them, you do not have the right to impose them on others.

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(


Very true!

I agree with the rest, but you have no right to impose your values and your ideals on anyone else.
Or are you personally going to adopt every child born into misery out of ignorance?
Look at a society where abortion is illegal and socially frowned upon. There you will see poverty and misery for the majority of the children. Your religious beliefs are yours, you have the right to state them, you do not have the right to impose them on others.


Well then I religiously believe that I will personally smack someone for said offenses. :p

I agree with the rest, but you have no right to impose your values and your ideals on anyone else.
Or are you personally going to adopt every child born into misery out of ignorance?
Look at a society where abortion is illegal and socially frowned upon. There you will see poverty and misery for the majority of the children. Your religious beliefs are yours, you have the right to state them, you do not have the right to impose them on others.


I'm confused.....what did his statement have to do with his religious values?

What they don't get is enough talk from their parents. No, not all kids are idiots, but a great majority of them have a "rebel against authority" streak and guess what authority is telling them ... Abstain or Wear a Condom! Teenager hears this from authority and says, "Fuck them. They don't know what they're talking about. I know everything and I'm immortal!" It's just part of being a teenager.

They don't need sex education. Most teenagers already know all about sex. What they don't know, however, is what happens afterwards. People seem to be concerning themselves too much with the before and not the after. Teenagers will have sex. That is an undeniable fact. Not all, mind you, but many. You can tell them about abstinence and condoms all you want, but it isn't going to change a damn thing.

Talk to your kids - don't let the schools do it for you - from the time they first start becoming curious about "where babies come from". Do not be embarrassed and do not make up cute stories about storks and cabbage patches. Don't lay any stigmas, either. Don't start off with "when a mommy and daddy" blah blah blah. Why? Because then they somehow will get it in their head that only married people can get pregnant.

Be honest with your teenagers as well. Ask them ... frequently ... if they understand human reproduction and do your best to educate them about diseases and whatnot. You won't be able to stop them and you won't be able to force them to wear a condom, but maybe ... just maybe ... you'll be able to scare them enough into being cautious.

Edit: Oh ... to add to the above ... if any of ya'll have a teenage daughter and she gets pregnant and you subsequently punish her for it or kick her out of the house or force her to get an abortion, I will personally come to your house and slap the taste out of your mouth. Be supportive. Remember: That's your grandchild in there.
Good advice! ( as usual ) :D

Quite depressing. That is why Bush is pushing for abstinance only sex ed. Guys don;t seem to like condoms, many refuse to use them, so what's the point. By the time you are 12 you know that if you jizz in a chick, she can get pregnant. That is all you need to know. Either use a condom (not like you can't go on late night tv and learn that) or don't have sex. Pills are also not reliable, because women often froget to take them. The only contraceptivce that has a 100% success rate is abstinence.

If you don;t think that they get enough sex education, you are either locked in a dimly lit room, think all kids are idiots, or do not believe that people should deal with their own mistakes (naive as all getout)

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.

They should sterilise everyone.

Every single person... with some kind of chemical sterilising agent, that can only be reversed by another chemical.

And they should ONLY make that other chemical available after a registered process, where they would check things like your psychological fitness to be a parent.


To be honest, they should also add a chemical that utterly supresses sex-drive, too. You should have to sign up to get THAT shot, too.

There... that'd solve the problems of sexual coercion, sexual oppurtunism, and unwanted pregnancy...

I am? Well.. the topic is on 'single moms' hence teenage pregnancy (which is the most common occurance or the most dire in need of attention). And when Entrusca is talking about 'murder' he's talking about Abortions.
no i think that if you re read his original post he is talking about pregnant women who get murdered by their husbands/lovers.

abortion is tragedy enough but at least the woman chooses that. what she doesnt realize is that when she marries/gets involved with a violent angry man, he might turn that onto HER especially in times of stress such as are caused by pregnancy.

its not terribly helpful to blame the victim even if she DID chose her abuser in some way. you really dont know a person until you get involved with them and then it may well be too late, especially if there arent alot of battered women resources in her community.

To be honest, they should also add a chemical that utterly supresses sex-drive, too. You should have to sign up to get THAT shot, too.There... that'd solve the problems of sexual coercion, sexual oppurtunism, and unwanted pregnancy...

Is there such a drug? I know depressents works.. but usually there tend to be sideeffects unfortunately.

There... that'd solve the problems of sexual coercion, sexual oppurtunism, and unwanted pregnancy...

Two problems:

1] Eugenics sucks ass.
2] Rape is a crime of violence, not of sexual desire.

And when Entrusca is talking about 'murder' he's talking about Abortions.
That's not how I'm reading his post.

Let's try not to get off-topic, here. I believe we were discussing abuse and murders resulting from abuse.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

.

Is it? oh boy. :D Sorry neways.

Two problems:

1] Eugenics sucks ass.
2] Rape is a crime of violence, not of sexual desire.

1) Not talking eugenics... just talking having to put some effort into getting a kid... you'd have to WANT one to file the paperwork... no more accidents.

Unless you mean, because of the psychological thing? Personally, I'd rather limit the 'freedom' to have children, that ends up with 6 year old children having their fingernails pulled out...

2) Didn't mention rape... I was just covering the sexual coercion and oppurtunism angles... which would pretty much cut out most pregnancy risks, and unwanted sexual attention...

Obviously - it wouldn't affect rape... but it WOULD prevent (most) rape pregnancies (one less worry).

The solution to rape is castration or euthanasia...

2] Rape is a crime of violence, not of sexual desire.

people say this all the time. is it true? how do you know?

Is there such a drug? I know depressents works.. but usually there tend to be sideeffects unfortunately.

I don't know... but I'd be willing to pay tax dollars to research it...

That would be fun. No jail, no community service, nothing but a court ordered forehead tattoo that says "Abuser of Women" or "Abuser of Children" and let society work it out.

That's not a half-bad idea. And ofcourse a ban from all laser-removal thingies.

They should sterilise everyone.

Every single person... with some kind of chemical sterilising agent, that can only be reversed by another chemical.

And they should ONLY make that other chemical available after a registered process, where they would check things like your psychological fitness to be a parent.


To be honest, they should also add a chemical that utterly supresses sex-drive, too. You should have to sign up to get THAT shot, too.

There... that'd solve the problems of sexual coercion, sexual oppurtunism, and unwanted pregnancy...

Yup Yup. I call 1984!

They should sterilise everyone.

Every single person... with some kind of chemical sterilising agent, that can only be reversed by another chemical.

And they should ONLY make that other chemical available after a registered process, where they would check things like your psychological fitness to be a parent.


To be honest, they should also add a chemical that utterly supresses sex-drive, too. You should have to sign up to get THAT shot, too.

There... that'd solve the problems of sexual coercion, sexual oppurtunism, and unwanted pregnancy... Tempting, but I considered something like this before and decided that I would personally get very offended if someone tried to sterilise me, given that I'm not going to get anyone pregnant as a teenager or before marriage anyway. Maybe if a teenage mother has one child they should do that… it would be best for her and any future children.

I also thought about the suppression drug before, but again decided that I wouldn't carry it out because I wouldn't like to have it done to me. I don't like to be distrusted, you see…

people say this all the time. is it true? how do you know?

Plenty of studies done on it.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/svfacts.htm

If there wasn't lust, there wouldn't be rape.

I'm confused.....what did his statement have to do with his religious values?

You are right, it was not explicit in his post. It was an extrapolation of mine from the position explicitly stated together with my experience of reading his other posts.

In addition, a pro-life attitude is nearly always, (note I said nearly) based on religious beliefs. The justification of bringing a child into the world to suffer is one that I have always had difficulty with. I see too much suffering as it is. The only justification that I have been able to understand, but not agree with, for this are religious ones.

I presumed; I may have been wrong, If so, I apologise for the use of the word religious. He nevertheless, does not have the right to impose his opinions, religious or secular, on others.

That's what laws and rules are - imposing opinions (and no, I'm not against laws).

I do believe that abortion is wrong, but I do not believe that it should be left go at that - that would be useless and neglectful.

Tempting, but I considered something like this before and decided that I would personally get very offended if someone tried to sterilise me, given that I'm not going to get anyone pregnant as a teenager or before marriage anyway. Maybe if a teenage mother has one child they should do that… it would be best for her and any future children.

I also thought about the suppression drug before, but again decided that I wouldn't carry it out because I wouldn't like to have it done to me. I don't like to be distrusted, you see…

I know what you mean... since I was never intending to get anyone 'accidentally' pregnant, either.

But, looking back on it (even though I did stay true to MY ideals), many people 'fail' - and we end up with abortions, unwanted pregnancy, unwanted children, and the subject of this thread... men that kill the pregnant women in their lives...

So - I think it would be a small price to pay... to have my freedoms compromised until I DECIDED I wanted children.

If there wasn't lust, there wouldn't be rape.
Rape is about dominance, not sex.

Rape is about dominance, not sex.

Huh? Disagree there. Not all the time. It can be just lust and maybe desperation. Not all rapists desire power over a women.

I don't think a person would feel very dominant if a person raped a drunk passed out girl would he?

I know what you mean... since I was never intending to get anyone 'accidentally' pregnant, either.

But, looking back on it (even though I did stay true to MY ideals), many people 'fail' - and we end up with abortions, unwanted pregnancy, unwanted children, and the subject of this thread... men that kill the pregnant women in their lives...

So - I think it would be a small price to pay... to have my freedoms compromised until I DECIDED I wanted children.

There must be better methods, I don't believe we have to go that far yet. I don't believe abstinence or "safe" education work, so we ought to go further. However, I don't think we need to go that far.

I wouldn't say people "fail". Many don't have ideals to stay chaste or whatever at all. Besides, why would you need both drugs, surely one or the other would be okay? Or, if someone's fathered/mothered already voluntarily as a teenager, you could "fix" them.

More abortion clinics. I want one in every boondock town from sea to shining sea.

There must be better methods, I don't believe we have to go that far yet. I don't believe abstinence or "safe" education work, so we ought to go further. However, I don't think we need to go that far.Teen pregnancy declined during the nineties, actually.

I had no idea that anal or oral sex even existed until age 15-16. I had, probably about age 14, considered that anal sex was just something queers did.
Ah, here is some smart kid, eh? Does consider gays having anal sex before he even knows the concept of such. Not likely, but i didnt expect coherence from you.

Hi

-You are About 170 times more likely to become pregnant as a teen, if you live in the US, compared with Denmark!

-The ansewer might be education!?... AND NOT FUCKING ABSTINANCE "education"...Sorry about that :rolleyes:

Harry "the Bastard" (English is not my native language)

Yes, lets blame the women. Because abusive men come with it tattooed to their forehead.. :rolleyes:
Too be harsh, yes, i do blame the women alongside with the men. Because most abuse isnt single case but continuous within a relationship. If a woman does nothing to change her situation it is her fault as well. She can leave him, report domestic violence or rape to the police, enter empowerment groups, seek advice within the church, whatever.
It is comparable to the situation that presents itself with rape. Every woman who doesnt report a rape in time to secure evidence is to blame for her rapists next victim.
We arent living in a society where everyone is on his own and physical strength is everything anymore, women can get back at her abusers. Nowadays there is a way out for nearly everyone.
And now flak season is open...

There must be better methods, I don't believe we have to go that far yet. I don't believe abstinence or "safe" education work, so we ought to go further. However, I don't think we need to go that far.

I wouldn't say people "fail". Many don't have ideals to stay chaste or whatever at all. Besides, why would you need both drugs, surely one or the other would be okay? Or, if someone's fathered/mothered already voluntarily as a teenager, you could "fix" them.

The advantage of both drugs, is that it would reduce the pressure to do the act that leads to breeding.

Most unwanted pregnancies are the result of opportunity (i.e. a guy finds a tipsy girl), or pressure (i.e. a guy pressures a girl into sex), or careless recreational sex.

The 'supressor' drug would help alleviate that pressure.

The 'sterilisation' drug, would ensure that nobody got pregnant without deliberate intention... so, even if someone ELSE was off their 'drug' (for legitimate reasons) and ended up having sex with the still-sterilised person - there STILL would be no unwanted pregnancy.

I think there would be pretty much NO abortions, if people had to 'sign up' for sex, and register to be allowed to get pregnant.

I agree with the rest, but you have no right to impose your values and your ideals on anyone else.
Or are you personally going to adopt every child born into misery out of ignorance?
Look at a society where abortion is illegal and socially frowned upon. There you will see poverty and misery for the majority of the children. Your religious beliefs are yours, you have the right to state them, you do not have the right to impose them on others.

He is a Muslim if you didn't know.

I am glad you say that however.

Can you tell that to the Christians now?

Ah, here is some smart kid, eh? Does consider gays having anal sex before he even knows the concept of such. Not likely, but i didnt expect coherence from you.


That's a flamebait and if it continues, it will be reported as such.

Anyway, I had an idea what anal sex was, but I had no real idea as to how it occurred or what the mechanics of it were.


Anyway, I might be off on my numbers of the age there, I can't remember everything exactly how it went. The point is that I didn't really know much anything about sex until 14-16, and I turned out fine.

Too be harsh, yes, i do blame the women alongside with the men. Because most abuse isnt single case but continuous within a relationship. If a woman does nothing to change her situation it is her fault as well. She can leave him, report domestic violence or rape to the police, enter empowerment groups, seek advice within the church, whatever.
It is comparable to the situation that presents itself with rape. Every woman who doesnt report a rape in time to secure evidence is to blame for her rapists next victim.
We arent living in a society where everyone is on his own and physical strength is everything anymore, women can get back at her abusers. Nowadays there is a way out for nearly everyone.
And now flak season is open...

I doubt you'll get much flak... it's not really worth dignifying with much of a response.

I thought the belief that abuse and rape were the victim's fault, were phased out decades ago...

Ah well... I guess it depends where you look...

Sadly, this would just lead to revenge, where people brutally murder those with the tattoo. And sadly, our justice system isn't perfect, which might lead to innocents getting said tattoo.

Well you have to wonder when the prisions have to seperate pedophiles and child killers from the other inmates.

Oh and don't forget there are two systems at work here. The Justice and the Penal. Once you are convicted and are handed over, the justice system is out of the picture. People like to blame the justice system when parol happens......

It is comparable to the situation that presents itself with rape. Every woman who doesnt report a rape in time to secure evidence is to blame for her rapists next victim.

We arent living in a society where everyone is on his own and physical strength is everything anymore, women can get back at her abusers. Nowadays there is a way out for nearly everyone.
And now flak season is open...


If you've ever been raped, and know what it is like to report one, then you can talk. I've seen what happens to girls who report rapes, guys leer at them, shout, "Whore!" and they're ostracized by their peers. Not to mention the, "What'd you do to get raped?" mentality which so many pigs in this doomed nation of sinners have.

So until you know from seeing what it's like, or from actually being raped, or from, well, until you have a degree of knowledge, don't talk about it. It's not as cut and dry as, "Report it, it's that simple."

My theory on the matter. Bare with me please.

Observations in my time.

Woman #1) Came from a household where the father wanted a son. Even went as far as to nickname her "Butch" Tried to "tomboy" her but it didn't work. Woman grew up with no serious plans and married the guy who made promises that he could never keep. Divorsed with children. Married another guy that wanted a lifestyle that he couldn't support. Divorsed. Went out with another guy that nobody liked. Broke up. She will not date anymore.

Woman #2) Similary to #1 but was a tomboy. How many women do you no like driving hardblocks or can take apart an engine? ;) Marries an evil manipulating controlling type. Family always concerned about themselves and not her. She gets divorsed and whores around. Now stuck with a new version of the ex-husband.

Woman #3) Grew up a good kid. Kind of a bubble head but a good person over all. Hooks up and marries a total controlling asian fellow. Woman has to give sons. Take care of the children and make sure they don't act like children(seen and not heard). Goes beserk when she doesn't(One boy is a natural super hyper kid). She seperated.

Woman #4) Another case of a father who wanted a son and didn't know how to deal with a daughter. Mother was angry in life and sometimes took it out on her. Many weak boyfriends and eventually one who abused and raped her once. She has issues to this day. But she married a decent bloke and seems happier.


Common theme. SELF IMAGE ISSUES!

My theory is fatherhood. Face it guys. We are the girls first example of manhood and ones they need acceptance. If a man is involved with their daughter(s), they seem to have confidence in themselves. Make choices for themselves even if others don't like them.

If a girl goes into the world with confidense, she will probably not hook up with a loser.

I have a daughter, who is three, and I am heavily involved in her life. The frequent comments I hear are how she is such a happy confident girl. She can take a nasty fall trying something and immediatly tries it again. She will get pissed if you try to help her. She get's pissed when she can't do something but doesn't get frustrated and gives up. She actually keeps doing it till she masters it. :eek:

She recently started Karate and the master said she has exceptional focus for a child her age.

Now having said that I am sure there are exceptions but I think many problems would be avoided if fathers were involved in their daughters lives.

Time will tell.

I am? Well.. the topic is on 'single moms' hence teenage pregnancy (which is the most common occurance or the most dire in need of attention). And when Entrusca is talking about 'murder' he's talking about Abortions.

I'm not sure what thread you're reading...the topic is:

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(

And he is NOT talking about abortions. You are. Start another thread.

If you've ever been raped, and know what it is like to report one, then you can talk. I've seen what happens to girls who report rapes, guys leer at them, shout, "Whore!" and they're ostracized by their peers. Not to mention the, "What'd you do to get raped?" mentality which so many pigs in this doomed nation of sinners have.

So until you know from seeing what it's like, or from actually being raped, or from, well, until you have a degree of knowledge, don't talk about it. It's not as cut and dry as, "Report it, it's that simple."


I can vouch for that. As in a previous post, I know a girl that was raped and she couldn't even tell her parents.....

I can vouch for that. As in a previous post, I know a girl that was raped and she couldn't even tell her parents.....
I can't believe it...but I have to agree with VE on this one....and you too by the way:)

That's a flamebait and if it continues, it will be reported as such.
I am scared. :eek:

Huh? Disagree there. Not all the time. It can be just lust and maybe desperation. Not all rapists desire power over a women.

I don't think a person would feel very dominant if a person raped a drunk passed out girl would he?
you, sir, are obviously not a rapist. raping an unconscious person is the ultimate dominance.

if all a man wanted was sexual release he wouldnt be interested in forcing a woman into sex. the force is what he is looking for.

Society, alas, is still over-geared towards making men controlling forces over women.

The myth of 'leaders and followers' hardly helps. You can be an -individual-, instead. You can have equal relationships.

This whole psuedo-BDSM Judeo-Christian Slave/Master style of living is really damaging the population.

--

As for safe sex, it's rather hard to get pregnant via oral sex and other alternatives to copulation. People need to learn how to let off their frustrations in a safe way. I know of a couple where the man, a 'fallen mormon', was utterly uneffectionate for a solid month. When they finally did SOMETHING, it was outright sex, and the woman had to go and check to make sure she wasn't pregnant, because she hadn't been keeping up her pills.

I had had a relationship with her prior, myself, but aware of her bad habits with pills, made rather sure to give her lots and lots of affection, but nothing that could possibly get her pregnant.

0% chance of knocking her up, still got plenty of interesting noises out of her.

Common theme. SELF IMAGE ISSUES!

My theory is fatherhood. Face it guys. We are the girls first example of manhood and ones they need acceptance. If a man is involved with their daughter(s), they seem to have confidence in themselves. Make choices for themselves even if others don't like them.

If a girl goes into the world with confidense, she will probably not hook up with a loser.

I have a daughter, who is three, and I am heavily involved in her life. The frequent comments I hear are how she is such a happy confident girl.
She recently started Karate and the master said she has exceptional focus for a child her age.

Now having said that I am sure there are exceptions but I think many problems would be avoided if fathers were involved in their daughters lives.

Time will tell.

You are a good man and you bring up a very important chunck of the puzzle. My dad was one of those guys that watched porn openly and gwaked at women in front of me. Of course, my mom never did anything about it. That effects a girl more than any man will ever know. It's irresponsible of a father to carry on when he has a daughter. Then, when I got a boyfriend, they tried to push conservative values on me, such as that I should be planning to marry him while only a freshman in college and I should want to have kids. On top of all that, he was the man and whatever he said went. After being sexually, mentally, and emotionally abused by this man (and one night of a brutal rape) I left. My mom STILL stands up for the SOB for one reason, "he was the man." Now, I'm in an awesome relationship with a man that will not harm me in any way. He is very respectful and supports my education. He also supports my choice not to have children. Of course my mom hangs on his every word and tells me he is right in everything because he is the man, but she at least I'm doing this for me and because it's right and not for anyone else.

I want to bring up another point: women are three times more likley to be sexually victimized as adults (15 and over) if they were victimized as children than those who were not victimized as children. A LOT of women are sexually victimized and what's sad is it's not their first time. I conducted my research on sexual revictimization and you would not believe the victim blaming I encountered (from both men AND women). It's still so hard for a woman who has been victimized in our society because that privilage and power of being a "male" is still there. It's the same privilage and power that comes with being white, heterosexual, and Christian in our society today.... you don't notice it and you don't do anything about it because you're a part of the privilaged group. I am white. I do not know and cannot speak to what it means to be African American. However, I can take a step back and try to see the world for what it is and listen to what African Americans have to say so I can recognize the privliage and power society gives me over them and speak out against it. The same thing goes for the privilage and power difference between men and women.

Oh, and my research did yeild some sort of an answer: strong male friendships help women from being revictimized a third time. Maybe there's more to this, I have to do more research.

So until you know from seeing what it's like, or from actually being raped, or from, well, until you have a degree of knowledge, don't talk about it. It's not as cut and dry as, "Report it, it's that simple."
I happen to have a degree of knowledge. A friend of mine is a mental advisor with the local police, especially for rape victims. It is her job to tell the victims that it was in no way her fault, they did nothing wrong etc and, on the other hand, convince them to work with the police in order to get the rapist.


I thought the belief that abuse and rape were the victim's fault, were phased out decades ago...
I never said that the victims of rape are to blame for what happened to them. Show me otherwise.
But if, e.g., someone hits you on a daily basis and you do nothing to stop him, leave him, have him arrested, seek counsel etc., you place yourself in the situation along with the abuser.

You are a good man and you bring up a very important chunck of the puzzle. My dad was one of those guys that watched porn openly and gwaked at women in front of me. Of course, my mom never did anything about it. That effects a girl more than any man will ever know. It's irresponsible of a father to carry on when he has a daughter. Then, when I got a boyfriend, they tried to push conservative values on me, such as that I should be planning to marry him while only a freshman in college and I should want to have kids. On top of all that, he was the man and whatever he said went. After being sexually, mentally, and emotionally abused by this man (and one night of a brutal rape) I left. My mom STILL stands up for the SOB for one reason, "he was the man." Now, I'm in an awesome relationship with a man that will not harm me in any way. He is very respectful and supports my education. He also supports my choice not to have children. Of course my mom hangs on his every word and tells me he is right in everything because he is the man, but she at least I'm doing this for me and because it's right and not for anyone else.

I want to bring up another point: women are three times more likley to be sexually victimized as adults (15 and over) if they were victimized as children than those who were not victimized as children. A LOT of women are sexually victimized and what's sad is it's not their first time. I conducted my research on sexual revictimization and you would not believe the victim blaming I encountered (from both men AND women). It's still so hard for a woman who has been victimized in our society because that privilage and power of being a "male" is still there. It's the same privilage and power that comes with being white, heterosexual, and Christian in our society today.... you don't notice it and you don't do anything about it because you're a part of the privilaged group. I am white. I do not know and cannot speak to what it means to be African American. However, I can take a step back and try to see the world for what it is and listen to what African Americans have to say so I can recognize the privliage and power society gives me over them and speak out against it. The same thing goes for the privilage and power difference between men and women.

Oh, and my research did yeild some sort of an answer: strong male friendships help women from being revictimized a third time. Maybe there's more to this, I have to do more research.
congratulations on not making the same mistake twice. so many women with histories like yours end up picking abusive men over and over again (no one loves me like he does!) its good to hear of someone who doesnt follow that pattern

I happen to have a degree of knowledge. A friend of mine is a mental advisor with the local police, especially for rape victims. It is her job to tell the victims that it was in no way her fault, they did nothing wrong etc and, on the other hand, convince them to work with the police in order to get the rapist.


I never said that the victims of rape are to blame for what happened to them. Show me otherwise.
But if, e.g., someone hits you on a daily basis and you do nothing to stop him, leave him, have him arrested, seek counsel etc., you place yourself in the situation along with the abuser.


1) Easier said than done. Until you're there or can see it firsthand, you don't know how hard it is to go along with the police. I have friends, who couldn't even go along with the police because they got jumped and beat up, and it's a shame for a guy to admit they lost and couldn't hold their own in a fight. Imagine 100 times worse than that, and that's probably what it's like for a woman to report being raped.


2) You basically did say it. So you're telling me that I placed myself in my mother's home and let her abuse me and such? Yeah, I could have just gone and lived in the street, why didn't I think of that...

Society, alas, is still over-geared towards making men controlling forces over women.

The myth of 'leaders and followers' hardly helps. You can be an -individual-, instead. You can have equal relationships.

This whole psuedo-BDSM Judeo-Christian Slave/Master style of living is really damaging the population.

--

As for safe sex, it's rather hard to get pregnant via oral sex and other alternatives to copulation. People need to learn how to let off their frustrations in a safe way. I know of a couple where the man, a 'fallen mormon', was utterly uneffectionate for a solid month. When they finally did SOMETHING, it was outright sex, and the woman had to go and check to make sure she wasn't pregnant, because she hadn't been keeping up her pills.

I had had a relationship with her prior, myself, but aware of her bad habits with pills, made rather sure to give her lots and lots of affection, but nothing that could possibly get her pregnant.

0% chance of knocking her up, still got plenty of interesting noises out of her.


Is outright sex that bad? My word, what is wrong with you? How is oral sex, "safe sex", if you only define safe sex in regards to not getting pregnant. But pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and any married couple who shuns the idea of at least 1 child, the wrath of God shall be strong upon them. Indeed a woman who refuses to have at least one child, is certainly headed for eternal hellfire and brimstone. Oral sex is disgusting when it becomes so popular it takes the place of intercourse. Really though, pornography and oral sex are killing the birthrate in the USA and Western Europe. It's a sad fact.


But to you women, to you women who seek not to "Be fruitful and multiply", listen, listen to the words of the Almighty God, the one you claim to believe in, and realize for to disobey these words, is to invite eternal damnation.

1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Any woman, who is a "femi-commie" and claims to be a Christian, is a hypocrite and is headed for hell, do you hear me, headed for hell.

God is quite clear on the topic, women are to submit to their husband, and a husband is to love and care for their wife.

Most "Christians" today, act as though those particular verses of the bible, didn't even exist. Indeed most of the "Catholics" at this "Catholic" university I attend, totally ignore those bibilcal verses, dismissing them as "not literally meant", or "Wrong translations". How can parts of the word of God be right (the parts they want to accept) but not the rest?

The bible is not a "pick what you want buffet" it is a meal, and you will clear your plate (accept it all) or you are HEADED FOR HELL.

2) You basically did say it. So you're telling me that I placed myself in my mother's home and let her abuse me and such? Yeah, I could have just gone and lived in the street, why didn't I think of that...
No, what i said is that the one allowing the abuser to get off is in some way responsible for he does next.
E.g., a friend of mine was raped by her father when she was 14. She could have given up on herself, but instead she went to the police, reported what happened and he went straight to prison. Her mother was abused by him for years, but she didnt leave him, thereby exposing her daughter to danger in the first place. If she had left him once he started to abuse her my friend would not have been raped and her mother could have had the opportunity to a happy life. Everyone controls his own fate.

No, what i said is that the one allowing the abuser to get off is in some way responsible for he does next.
E.g., a friend of mine was raped by her father when she was 14. She could have given up on herself, but instead she went to the police, reported what happened and he went straight to prison. Her mother was abused by him for years, but she didnt leave him, thereby exposing her daughter to danger in the first place. If she had left him once he started to abuse her my friend would not have been raped and her mother could have had the opportunity to a happy life. Everyone controls his own fate.


I believe everything is predestinated and man has absolutely no control over his own fate. Free will doesn't exist, free agency may exist. But primary causes, man has no control over those, none at all. Secondary causes, perhaps. I need to study this matter more. But man has absolutely no power to save himself on a spiritual level.

I believe everything is predestinated and man has absolutely no control over his own fate. Free will doesn't exist, free agency may exist. But primary causes, man has no control over those, none at all. Secondary causes, perhaps. I need to study this matter more. But man has absolutely no power to save himself on a spiritual level.

So in other words, whether we go to Heaven or Hell is all predetermined, so no matter what we do, we can't change it?

1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.



Beliefs like this were what encouraged my sister to stay with an abusive fiance. She thought that once she made that all important commitment, she had to stick with it. She clammed up and did not tell her family what was going on, and she lived far enough away to keep it hidden. She knew we would have descended upon her fiance with all the wrath of Hell and she thought it was her responsibility to protect him.

Thank God she finally came to her senses and left.

Is outright sex that bad? My word, what is wrong with you? How is oral sex, "safe sex", if you only define safe sex in regards to not getting pregnant. But pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and any married couple who shuns the idea of at least 1 child, the wrath of God shall be strong upon them. Indeed a woman who refuses to have at least one child, is certainly headed for eternal hellfire and brimstone. Oral sex is disgusting when it becomes so popular it takes the place of intercourse. Really though, pornography and oral sex are killing the birthrate in the USA and Western Europe. It's a sad fact.


But to you women, to you women who seek not to "Be fruitful and multiply", listen, listen to the words of the Almighty God, the one you claim to believe in, and realize for to disobey these words, is to invite eternal damnation.

1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Any woman, who is a "femi-commie" and claims to be a Christian, is a hypocrite and is headed for hell, do you hear me, headed for hell.

God is quite clear on the topic, women are to submit to their husband, and a husband is to love and care for their wife.

Most "Christians" today, act as though those particular verses of the bible, didn't even exist. Indeed most of the "Catholics" at this "Catholic" university I attend, totally ignore those bibilcal verses, dismissing them as "not literally meant", or "Wrong translations". How can parts of the word of God be right (the parts they want to accept) but not the rest?

The bible is not a "pick what you want buffet" it is a meal, and you will clear your plate (accept it all) or you are HEADED FOR HELL.
Thank you for yet another enlightening rant/rampant Bible quotation. :rolleyes: Remember that almost NO ONE here considers the Bible a credible source, and forcing your beliefs on others in unlikely to get you far in a debate. As for falling birthrates, that's not necessarily a bad thing - overpopulation is a looming threat, so it's nice if it just solves itself. (I doubt there''s much danger of the entire world becoming devoid of humans because people decide to suck each other off rather than have intercourse.)

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(
i am a little bothered by the fact that you direct this only at PREGNANT women and women with children. is a woman's life not worth enough on its own?

in 2001, among all female murder victims in the U.S., 31% were slain by their husbands or boyfriends (Uniform Crime Reports, 2001, FBI). family violence costs the nation from $5 to $10 billion annually (American Medical Association). domestic violence is the leading cause of injury to women between 14 and 41 years of age. thirty five percent of American women, roughly 5 million citizens of the United States, report having been beaten by a romantic partner.

being pregnant or being a mother does not increase (or decrease) a woman's value, so i hope you will change the title of this thread to reflect that.

The bible is not a "pick what you want buffet" it is a meal, and you will clear your plate (accept it all) or you are HEADED FOR HELL.
for once, i totally agree with you. anybody who claims to believe the Bible is the Word of God, yet who also claims to support equality and respect for women, is either lying to you or lying to themselves.

for once, i totally agree with you. anybody who claims to believe the Bible is the Word of God, yet who also claims to support equality and respect for women, is either lying to you or lying to themselves.
Touché...though I'm afraid this sort of straightforward logic doesn't always apply in the real world.

God is quite clear on the topic, women are to submit to their husband, and a husband is to love and care for their wife.

It'd be good to add that a lot of Christians I know believe that yes, God wants in the father to be the authority who "presides" in the home (meaning he's the spokesperson for an equal companionship), but the moment that man abuses his power or fails to "love and care for his wife", his right to preside over the family is completely revoked.

I believe everything is predestinated and man has absolutely no control over his own fate. Free will doesn't exist, free agency may exist. But primary causes, man has no control over those, none at all. Secondary causes, perhaps. I need to study this matter more. But man has absolutely no power to save himself on a spiritual level.

To suggest that is to say God is nothing more then a kid who like to pick the wings off flys.

Free will is the choice you make at each fork in the road of life.

snip

Surely you must know that the bible is not a valid argument.

But if you see it that way.. I had a daughter a year ago, when I wish to sell her into slavery, what do think is a fair price?

Also, the people who live next door are getting a little upset wit me burning the Ox on the alter.. any suggestions?

Oh and I won't eat Lobster or Shrimp, because I know that puts me in the same violation as being gay...

But want I really need to know is, if I know some one working on the Sabbath.. do I have to kill them myself> Or can I get people to help?

It would be great if you could clear that up for me!

being pregnant or being a mother does not increase (or decrease) a woman's value, so i hope you will change the title of this thread to reflect that.

I'm not sure you can change the thread of a title--er--I mean the title of a thread. I tried once for a mispelt title and it wouldn't let me. Maybe it just didn't like me, though.

He is a Muslim if you didn't know.

I am glad you say that however.

Can you tell that to the Christians now?

I did know.
And the message was not just for him, but for all people who think that they have the right to impose their ideals on others. Regardless of religion, (Christian, Muslim, Shinto, Kardacian Spiritist, I don't care) or not (comunist, liberal, libertarian, conservative, socialist, feminist, white supremicist).
It is not your decision.

Surely you must know that the bible is not a valid argument.

But if you see it that way.. I had a daughter a year ago, when I wish to sell her into slavery, what do think is a fair price?

Also, the people who live next door are getting a little upset wit me burning the Ox on the alter.. any suggestions?

Oh and I won't eat Lobster or Shrimp, because I know that puts me in the same violation as being gay...

But want I really need to know is, if I know some one working on the Sabbath.. do I have to kill them myself> Or can I get people to help?

It would be great if you could clear that up for me!



The Mosaic Code consists of two types of laws: moral and ceremonial. (Analagous to modern law's mala in se and mala prohibitum, respectively). Moral laws are included in the Mosaic Code because they are in and of themselves wrong (e.g., murder, adultery, human sacrifice, sodomy, etc.). Ceremonial laws are included in the Mosaic Code because they were shadows of things to come. They were ceremonies that represented something (e.g., not eating certain types of animals, not wearing clothing of mixed fibers, etc.). These ceremonial laws foreshadowed Christ, and certain other eternal concepts. These ceremonial laws were done away with when Christ came. See Colossians 2:13-23. The moral laws, however, always have been and always will be in effect. We are supposed to follow the moral laws.

The context of the verses in the Mosaic Code that forbid sodomy is important. Leviticus 18:22 says "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." This verse is part of a list of abominations that were done in Egypt and other nations, for which the Lord spued the people out. In other words, He punished other nations for these abominations. This means that these abominable acts were not only forbidden to the ancient Jews, but to ALL nations (whereas the ceremonial laws in the Mosaic Code only applied to people in the Jewish nation). Any nation that engages in these abominations will be destroyed. To paraphrase the context of Leviticus 18:22 - don't have sex with a menstruating woman, don't commit adultery, don't sacrifice your children, don't commit sodomy, don't commit bestiality. The question is: why are all of these things still abominable, except sodomy? Why is sodomy suddenly OK? If you claim to believe the Bible, and you're at all logical, it makes no sense to say that sodomy is OK.

Leviticus 20:13 says "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." What's the context of this verse? To paraphrase - don't commit adultery, don't have sex with your step mother, don't have sex with your daughter in law, don't have sex with other men, don't have sex with your mother in law, don't have sex with animals. Once again, all of these verses condemn things that are morally wrong, as opposed to ceremonially wrong. It makes no sense to suggest that all of these are still wrong - except sodomy.

Finally, people ask this question to try to prove a point. And the point is "the Mosaic Code contains lots of stuff that we don't follow anymore - why should we still follow the verse that forbids sodomy?" For example, "if it's OK to eat pork, why isn't it OK to commit sodomy?" I believe I've answered this above, but I'd like to point out that the above statement makes about as much sense as "if it's OK to eat pork, why isn't it OK to murder?"

Thank you for yet another enlightening rant/rampant Bible quotation. :rolleyes: Remember that almost NO ONE here considers the Bible a credible source, and forcing your beliefs on others in unlikely to get you far in a debate. As for falling birthrates, that's not necessarily a bad thing - overpopulation is a looming threat, so it's nice if it just solves itself. (I doubt there''s much danger of the entire world becoming devoid of humans because people decide to suck each other off rather than have intercourse.)

The world is overpopulated with non-whites, the white population is disgustingly low and is declining as we speak.

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(

Maybe im a really bad man, but this made me laugh alot.

Girls get a gun then shoot whom ever tries to harm you. Or at least get a light sword. lol

Is outright sex that bad? My word, what is wrong with you? How is oral sex, "safe sex", if you only define safe sex in regards to not getting pregnant. But pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and any married couple who shuns the idea of at least 1 child, the wrath of God shall be strong upon them. Indeed a woman who refuses to have at least one child, is certainly headed for eternal hellfire and brimstone. Oral sex is disgusting when it becomes so popular it takes the place of intercourse. Really though, pornography and oral sex are killing the birthrate in the USA and Western Europe. It's a sad fact.


But to you women, to you women who seek not to "Be fruitful and multiply", listen, listen to the words of the Almighty God, the one you claim to believe in, and realize for to disobey these words, is to invite eternal damnation.

1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Any woman, who is a "femi-commie" and claims to be a Christian, is a hypocrite and is headed for hell, do you hear me, headed for hell.

God is quite clear on the topic, women are to submit to their husband, and a husband is to love and care for their wife.

Most "Christians" today, act as though those particular verses of the bible, didn't even exist. Indeed most of the "Catholics" at this "Catholic" university I attend, totally ignore those bibilcal verses, dismissing them as "not literally meant", or "Wrong translations". How can parts of the word of God be right (the parts they want to accept) but not the rest?

The bible is not a "pick what you want buffet" it is a meal, and you will clear your plate (accept it all) or you are HEADED FOR HELL.


I keep thinking shit like this is a joke, liek that jesus saves guy. In any event its pretty funny.

Buddy, in normal conversations with people do you quote the bible when you feel they are doing something morally wrong? That would be a blast to see...

What bullshit. Abstinence ed does NOT teach ANYTHING, it even ignores the fact that they are going to have sex regardless and in light of the fact it is even more useless. This is not even to mention the fact that 30% of the abstinence ed programs being paid for wern't even teachnig facts

THIS is the real problem.. the idea that children will have sex reguardless of what is taught to them... this is reality today because almost NO emphasis is put on abstinence, instead the focuse is on controception and how to protect yourself while having sex. Is it any wonder children have sex younger and younger in this moder age. 30 years ago 12 year olds were not sexually active in any significant numbers enough to even speak of. Yet today your lucky if your child leaves middle school without being sexually active, or even exposed to sexual activity by his/her peers. It is clear traditional sex education is ineffective at best, maybe even promoting the problem itself. While i dont think Abstinence education only is the answer, i think this is closer to the answer then where we are today!!

These statistics only confirm that fact

As for falling birthrates, that's not necessarily a bad thing - overpopulation is a looming threat, so it's nice if it just solves itself. (I doubt there''s much danger of the entire world becoming devoid of humans because people decide to suck each other off rather than have intercourse.)

But the evil non-whites are bent on taking over the world! :eek:

Does that sound familiar anyone? "the gay/feminist/anyone else you don't like agenda"

FFS, stop feeling so sorry for yourself for a minute.

Personally, I can't wait for the day when everyone is having gorgeous interracial babies. I plan on starting in a few years. :D

I keep thinking shit like this is a joke, liek that jesus saves guy. In any event its pretty funny.

Buddy, in normal conversations with people do you quote the bible when you feel they are doing something morally wrong? That would be a blast to see...


I can quote enough biblical verses, from heart, to support most any argument of mine. And go ahead, scoff at God, scoff at His words, I know that one day, the flood shall take all reprobate away, and I shall be in Heaven with God and the rest of His Elect.



2 Peter 3:3-10


Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.

Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


Holy misogynism, Batman! And people say Islam is denegrating to women! You people are just sick.

I can quote enough biblical verses, from heart, to support most any argument of mine. And go ahead, scoff at God, scoff at His words, I know that one day, the flood shall take all reprobate away, and I shall be in Heaven with God and the rest of His Elect.



2 Peter 3:3-10


Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


No, no no!

The correct religion is that of the mormans!

So your going to hell anyways,
what a knucklehead :rolleyes:

So in other words, whether we go to Heaven or Hell is all predetermined, so no matter what we do, we can't change it?


If you're Elect and you know it, you'll then love God and keep His law.

The world is overpopulated with non-whites, the white population is disgustingly low and is declining as we speak.

I'm thinking that's probably for the best.

I'm thinking that's probably for the best.

Umn what? OK now I am curious why you think that?


This is exactly why we whites are having no choice but to rise up and fight. You're declaring that the death of the white race is a good thing. Communists have wanted our race dead for decades, and you're just spouting off more against us. You've pushed us up against the wall, but we won't cave in, we won't give up. Communists want a war, and we'll give them a war!

Ohhhh never mind! ;)

its perposterous to think you can teach a child not to stick his hand in burning flames while at the same time telling him how he can realitivily avoid getting hurt by putting on a glove... Is teaching him how to protect himself a bad thing...? No, only if the protection is not in of itself garanteed.

Im sorry, but there are few if any 15 or 16 year olds ready to have sex, let alone realize the real consequences behind it..

I'm thinking that's probably for the best.


This is exactly why we whites are having no choice but to rise up and fight. You're declaring that the death of the white race is a good thing. Communists have wanted our race dead for decades, and you're just spouting off more against us. You've pushed us up against the wall, but we won't cave in, we won't give up. Communists want a war, and we'll give them a war!

If you're Elect and you know it, you'll then love God and keep His law.

im confused.. if ur "elect" (which is crap because we are all gods children.. god does not condem us we condem ourselves) why then waste your breath on those who are not elect, and condemed to hell no matter what their action or belief ? No matter what you say, or if you sway them... they are condemed ... period! right ?

This is exactly why we whites are having no choice but to rise up and fight. You're declaring that the death of the white race is a good thing. Communists have wanted our race dead for decades, and you're just spouting off more against us. You've pushed us up against the wall, but we won't cave in, we won't give up. Communists want a war, and we'll give them a war!

uhhh wasn't Marx white ? >.>

Communists have wanted our race dead for decades, and you're just spouting off more against us. You've pushed us up against the wall, but we won't cave in, we won't give up. Communists want a war, and we'll give them a war!

Thank you for confirming my previous post.

But the evil non-whites are bent on taking over the world!

Does that sound familiar anyone? "the gay/feminist/anyone else you don't like agenda"

FFS, stop feeling so sorry for yourself for a minute.

Personally, I can't wait for the day when everyone is having gorgeous interracial babies. I plan on starting in a few years.

Although I forgot to mention Communists. How silly of me.

uhhh wasn't Marx white ? >.>


this guys trolling, maybe its JESUSsaves two, this time with BIGOTRY! tm

uhhh wasn't Marx white ? >.>


No, Marx was not white, he was the son of a khazaric rabbi.

im confused.. if ur "elect" (which is crap because we are all gods children.. god does not condem us we condem ourselves) why then waste your breath on those who are not elect, and condemed to hell no matter what their action or belief ? No matter what you say, or if you sway them... they are condemed ... period! right ?

Because God is going to let His Elect, spend eternity mocking and laughing at those who are destined to burn in hell. So we might as well get started early and let the Reprobate know we hate them and will be laughing at them while they write in a pit of fire and brimstone.

Proverbs 1:24-32
Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

I'm not sure that that was the point of that verse, but whatever man.

Whats the statistics in the US currently..

1/3 of all girls by the age of 21 have gotten pregnant at least once?

Me find statistics now... brb.

Man.. it's getting very sad and drastic.

And of course people like you and Eutursca would never advocate birth control, god forbid!

Personally, if the boyfriend kills them, good. Bitches deserve it. Wear a fucking a condom.

Personally, if the boyfriend kills them, good. Bitches deserve it.



You make me sick.

I'm going to take a bet you don't last long around here.

You make me sick.

I'm going to take a bet you don't last long around here.

I am a gambling man, unfourtantely you've already lost the bet. I am a veteran of these forums, this is just a new account, to go along with my new location.

But the evil non-whites are bent on taking over the world! :eek:

Does that sound familiar anyone? "the gay/feminist/anyone else you don't like agenda"

FFS, stop feeling so sorry for yourself for a minute.

Personally, I can't wait for the day when everyone is having gorgeous interracial babies. I plan on starting in a few years. :D


promoting racial harmony one orgasm at a time

promoting racial harmony one orgasm at a time
That's the plan! :D

Is outright sex that bad?


Nope. My actual sexual experience was fairly au natural, foolish though that was. I think we figured since she was menstruating, was taking pills, and was ready to do the 'morning after' thing if she felt the need, it was relatively safe.


My word, what is wrong with you? How is oral sex, "safe sex", if you only define safe sex in regards to not getting pregnant.


1) I don't fuck or suck unless a partner has a recent clean bill of health. If a woman wants an encounter with me, she'd better have had blood tests since her last romp.

2) Cootie shots. DUH.


But pregnancy is a beautiful thing, and any married couple who shuns the idea of at least 1 child, the wrath of God shall be strong upon them.


I hear that having sex with a pregnant woman is amazingly good for her and the birth. That said, baby-filled-bellies aren't really my fetish.

And I don't intend to get married outside of financial convenience, so your deity can go wrath his name in the snow.


Indeed a woman who refuses to have at least one child, is certainly headed for eternal hellfire and brimstone.


Yes. Fear the smell of rotten eggs. Grarr.


Oral sex is disgusting when it becomes so popular it takes the place of intercourse.


Well excuse me for not demanding my partner get their tubes tied if they want a dose of protien in their cavities.


Really though, pornography and oral sex are killing the birthrate in the USA and Western Europe. It's a sad fact.


Heaven forbid we not fuck our way in to being a 3rd world country.


But to you women, to you women who seek not to "Be fruitful and multiply", listen, listen to the words of the Almighty God, the one you claim to believe in, and realize for to disobey these words, is to invite eternal damnation.


Wow. Fuck or die. Lovely. You must HATE nuns.


1 Timothy 5:14
I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.


So, god's a pedophile vouyer?


1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


And is in to BDSM? Kinky.


But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


I prefer screamers, makes you feel loved when you're bringing them to an orgasm that wakes the block.


For Adam was first formed, then Eve.


Until then, what was he doing with a penis and a lot of animals?


And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


He was just lead around by his schlong, eh? "Oh screw god, monkey ass just isn't as good as humping my own rib!"


Not withstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


So, fuck or burn?

Sucks to be infertile.


Titus 2:3-5
The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


BDSM taught by older mistresses/madams. Gotcha. Kinky bastard, aintcha?


Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.


Wait, what? Does that mean Jesus is going to impregnate you? Holy Fuck?


For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.


So what the hell is that thing on her neck?


Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.


Jesus fucks the church. Gotcha.


Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.


So be made in to jerky for your wife? I can support that. You first.


Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.


So, children suck, says your deity? Children=Sorrow. Gotcha.

Also, your deity utterly sucked at making all women wanna serve. So much for omnipotence. BDSM fantasies on high, yeesh.


Any woman, who is a "femi-commie" and claims to be a Christian, is a hypocrite and is headed for hell, do you hear me, headed for hell.


What the hell is a femi-commie? They want all women to get equal funds no matter what they do? Wha?

Hear you? Nope. Did you say Hellen? Give Head to Hellen? Is Hellen a herm?


God is quite clear on the topic, women are to submit to their husband, and a husband is to love and care for their wife.


Yes yes, BDSM fantasy, we get it. Spank that goat.


Most "Christians" today, act as though those particular verses of the bible, didn't even exist. Indeed most of the "Catholics" at this "Catholic" university I attend, totally ignore those bibilcal verses, dismissing them as "not literally meant", or "Wrong translations". How can parts of the word of God be right (the parts they want to accept) but not the rest?


Gee, part of the bible not right... never heard of THAT being considered... :D


The bible is not a "pick what you want buffet" it is a meal, and you will clear your plate (accept it all) or you are HEADED FOR HELL.

There's a reason salad bar theism is so popular. Your religion, as a whole, sucks, and while they want the comfort of some of its notions, they aren't all in to your fetishes, and don't like being jackasses.

But its nice to know all those BDSM fetishers get to go to heaven. I hope Jesus likes leather crotchless g-strings.

*clipped for length, and so as to not further damage the eyesite of readers by re-posting this brilliant flash of purest genius*
will you marry me?

No, but if you have a bill of clean health and lots of energy... :D

No, but if you have a bill of clean health and lots of energy... :D
*gasp*

but if we give in to our carnal desires we shall be cast into a pit of eternal fire! just think about how hot it would be, how sweat would pour down our bodies, how we would writhe in the hot, sweaty, nasty pit...no, no we cannot! it would be too naughty! so very, very naughty! we would be so naughty that we would require a cosmic spanking from the Big Daddy...a rough spanking, for our naughty, naughty behavior...

Christianity is so kinky.

It's moments like this that I cherish my hint of pyromania.

But hey, if you -really- want a spanking after the hot sweaty kinky :fluffle: , I'm open-minded. I -had- been accused of looking like Jesus when I had my beard, after all.

I don't quite understand how the hell this turned into a religion thread.

congratulations on not making the same mistake twice. so many women with histories like yours end up picking abusive men over and over again (no one loves me like he does!) its good to hear of someone who doesnt follow that pattern

Maybe you should also know I was molested from 9-15 and started dating that boyfriend right after form 15-19. Half of my life and I managed to escape it... something is there and all I can do is to figure out what it is so I can help other women.

BTW, I think you missed the point of my post. Go back and read it again with the new information I have just given you and then let me know if you "get it" yet.

*gasp*
Christianity is so kinky.

Didn't Jimmy Swaggart and Jimmy Baker prove that? ;)

its perposterous to think you can teach a child not to stick his hand in burning flames while at the same time telling him how he can realitivily avoid getting hurt by putting on a glove... Is teaching him how to protect himself a bad thing...? No, only if the protection is not in of itself garanteed.

my kid brother was taught fire safety in cub scouts. they taught the cubs that fire can be good if you are careful and responsible, but that fire can be dangerous if you are careless or reckless. 6 year olds had no problem with that concept. i don't see why sex should be any different.


Im sorry, but there are few if any 15 or 16 year olds ready to have sex, let alone realize the real consequences behind it..
you do realize, of course, that if we were to revert to "traditional family values" then most girls would be MARRIED by 16, right? if they aren't ready to have sex, then why are so many traditionalists waxing poetic over the good 'ol days? back in the good 'ol days a female was considered an old maid if she wasn't knocked up by 20! i guess getting married magically makes a girl more able to understand the real consequences of sex...?

The Mosaic Code consists of two types of laws: moral and ceremonial. (Analagous to modern law's mala in se and mala prohibitum, respectively). Moral laws are included in the Mosaic Code because they are in and of themselves wrong (e.g., murder, adultery, human sacrifice, sodomy, etc.). Ceremonial laws are included in the Mosaic Code because they were shadows of things to come. They were ceremonies that represented something (e.g., not eating certain types of animals, not wearing clothing of mixed fibers, etc.). These ceremonial laws foreshadowed Christ, and certain other eternal concepts. These ceremonial laws were done away with when Christ came. See Colossians 2:13-23. The moral laws, however, always have been and always will be in effect. We are supposed to follow the moral laws.
And slavery is covered by ceremonial laws and therefore invalid nowadays? Oh, wait, you didnt adress that, right? Any reason for dropping this point?

*sigh* VoteEarly was actually making sense for a while. That didn't last long.
@ Jester III *slap slap slap* Get your crap together.

@ Jester III *slap slap slap* Get your crap together.
You disagree with me, fine. Any way you could tell me so with a tiny bit of arguments? Or should i put it in a more visual language?
*punch* Discuss!

I always thought there was nothing funnier yet sadder than a Teenage pregnancy.-But then i met me and relised no one cared :(

As it was in the Simpsons
"so youve ruined your life"

I personally blame Sex education in general.
Abstinance or "Whatever"

What happened to the days of
You touch my daughter i brake your neck
You look at my daughter ill gouge your eyes?

Just my thoughts. :(

my kid brother was taught fire safety in cub scouts. they taught the cubs that fire can be good if you are careful and responsible, but that fire can be dangerous if you are careless or reckless. 6 year olds had no problem with that concept. i don't see why sex should be any different.


you do realize, of course, that if we were to revert to "traditional family values" then most girls would be MARRIED by 16, right? if they aren't ready to have sex, then why are so many traditionalists waxing poetic over the good 'ol days? back in the good 'ol days a female was considered an old maid if she wasn't knocked up by 20! i guess getting married magically makes a girl more able to understand the real consequences of sex...?
Both very good points if you dont play with fire you wont get burnt. ;)

And sure that didnt mean they were knocking boots at 16 but if its stable why not the problem is so many are not. :(

It's a matter of education and teaching people -wisdom-, a horribly horribly rare thing.

As a child, I had access to endless ways to kill myself. We had a fire place, we had lots of guns, including a loaded one, easy access to bullets, etc. We had knives of various sorts, we had a horses which could very easily crush someone, we had thieves next door, we had five acres, at least half of which was full of foliage that could hurt you (Between poison oak and tangles of vines to catch your ankles in). Etc etc etc.

I've never seriously harmed myself. My two worst injuries are a small scar on my finger from when some wood fell and sliced some of my skin, and when I rammed my shin in to the lower bar of a shopping cart while going too fast. No bullet holes, no horse hoof marks, no kidnappings, no nothing.

At home, we shot guns. I fiddled with knives, often using them to 'clip' my nails. I played hide and seek with the horse in the wild flowers in the yard. I never went anywhere near the dangerous neighbors. I avoided the dangerous parts of our property.

When I got in to sex, I did it fairly safely, fully aware of all the risks, and having made absolutely certain my partner was safe. As such, I have no STDs, and no kids.

All of this was because my family was open towards education. Sex Ed gave me some good arguments, to boot, to keep my partners from talking me out of being wise.

If there wasn't lust, there wouldn't be rape.

If there weren't sociopaths, there wouldn't be rape.

If there weren't sociopaths, there wouldn't be rape.


So then what percent of men are sociopaths? I tend to regard most all men as potential rapists, give them the chance to take advantage of a drunk woman, they'll take it. But then again, I tend to regard most everybody (probably 99% of the world) as reprobates.

As far as I know, we're (NZ) the second highest on the OECD for teen pregnancies after the US. We also have the highest amount of people getting pregnant in their 30s, go figure.

THIS is the real problem.. the idea that children will have sex reguardless of what is taught to them... this is reality today because almost NO emphasis is put on abstinence, instead the focuse is on controception and how to protect yourself while having sex. Is it any wonder children have sex younger and younger in this moder age. 30 years ago 12 year olds were not sexually active in any significant numbers enough to even speak of. Yet today your lucky if your child leaves middle school without being sexually active, or even exposed to sexual activity by his/her peers. It is clear traditional sex education is ineffective at best, maybe even promoting the problem itself. While i dont think Abstinence education only is the answer, i think this is closer to the answer then where we are today!!

These statistics only confirm that fact


I'm older than 30. A girl in one of my junior high school classes was quite obviously pregnant and proud of it, so it DID happen.

Also, sexual education and moral education should PRIMARILY be the parents' responsibility, NOT the schools'.

So then what percent of men are sociopaths? I tend to regard most all men as potential rapists, give them the chance to take advantage of a drunk woman, they'll take it. But then again, I tend to regard most everybody (probably 99% of the world) as reprobates.

Then there is something very wrong with your world view. 99% of men are not rapists.

A sociopath doesn't care about anything but himself, and therefore other people don't matter.

Then there is something very wrong with your world view. 99% of men are not rapists.

A sociopath doesn't care about anything but himself, and therefore other people don't matter.


99% of men are potential rapists. Give them the chance, and they'll take it.

So then what percent of men are sociopaths? I tend to regard most all men as potential rapists, give them the chance to take advantage of a drunk woman, they'll take it. But then again, I tend to regard most everybody (probably 99% of the world) as reprobates.
if most all men are potential rapists, why on Earth would God tell women to be submissive before such pathetic cowards?! why would God put men superior to women, if men are such contemptable creatures? does your God really think that men who would rape are morally superior to the women they would victimize?

Both very good points if you dont play with fire you wont get burnt. ;)

incorrect. you can play with fire 24/7, and if you do it with propper safety procedures you will never be burnt.


And sure that didnt mean they were knocking boots at 16 but if its stable why not the problem is so many are not. :(
so wait, let me get this straight:

kids aren't ready to have sex at 16. however, having kids enter into binding, lifetime unions at the age of 16 is fine, because it's stable. so kids are able to commit their ENTIRE LIVES to another human being, and form a stable home, at the age of 16, but they aren't ready to HAVE SEX?!

talk about disgusting priorities.

99% of men are potential rapists. Give them the chance, and they'll take it.

I've had the chance to nail really drunk chicks but haven't taken them...

if most all men are potential rapists, why on Earth would God tell women to be submissive before such pathetic cowards?! why would God put men superior to women, if men are such contemptable creatures? does your God really think that men who would rape are morally superior to the women they would victimize?


Originally in the beginning of time, man was good, but then Eve caused the downfall of man. Why do you think so many women died in labor back then? Why is labor a pain? God made it so to punish womankind for their sins, the sin of Eve.

Why are so many men depraved and given to sin? God is punishing their kind.

I count myself as a male elect, we are a people apart from the typical godless sinners that comprise the wretched and rotten world that we are surrounded by and forced to endure.

But as it was in the day of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man is revealed to the world.

Remember that, in the day of Noah, they were going about their daily lives, busy and happy, until the flood came, and carried them away, away to HELL.

I've had the chance to nail really drunk chicks but haven't taken them...


And in high school, I could have had so much sex it wouldn't have been funny.

But indeed no amount of fornication, however small, is funny. Not in the eyes of God.

And since my Election was a predestinated thing, and I on some level had always known it, I did not fornicate, not once, nor shall I ever do so.

Is there such a drug? I know depressents works.. but usually there tend to be sideeffects unfortunately.
There's some company that's working on a male birth-control pill, but so far it only works on about 4 out of 7 mice. The other three it sterilizes. They're not quite sure why.

Originally in the beginning of time, man was good, but then Eve caused the downfall of man. Why do you think so many women died in labor back then? Why is labor a pain? God made it so to punish womankind for their sins, the sin of Eve.

ahhh, so rape is okay because women deserve to be mistreated. gotcha.

Why are so many men depraved and given to sin? God is punishing their kind.

wait, men go around sinning and hurting other people, but God is punishing the MEN by allowing them to do so?

so if i go out and kill ten little kids, then hide the crimes and get away scott free, it's really ME that God was punishing?


I count myself as a male elect, we are a people apart from the typical godless sinners that comprise the wretched and rotten world that we are surrounded by and forced to endure.

this actually concerns me, because you appear to be a textbook example of antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy). the characteristic disregard for the welfare of other people is alarming enough, but now we are seeing the malignant narcisism. this is the construction of a special bubble (around yourself and possibly your chosen few companions) which protects those inside from following the same rules as outsiders. beings inside the bubble are "real" while beings outside the bubble are "less real," and it is totally unnecessary to empathize with the outside beings. their are not special, they are not chosen, and they are simply not as important as you and your fellows in the bubble. you are convinced you hold dominion over others, and that you are privy to special knowledge that others cannot have, and you show remarkable lack of empathy with the suffering of beings outside your bubble.

honestly, it's straight from the DSM-IV. if you really believe the things you are saying, you are General Forum's first real sociopath.


Remember that, in the day of Noah, they were going about their daily lives, busy and happy, until the flood came, and carried them away, away to HELL.
remember that, in the day of science, it was established that no world-wide flood ever occured on planet Earth.

ahhh, so rape is okay because women deserve to be mistreated. gotcha.

wait, men go around sinning and hurting other people, but God is punishing the MEN by allowing them to do so?

so if i go out and kill ten little kids, then hide the crimes and get away scott free, it's really ME that God was punishing?


this actually concerns me, because you appear to be a textbook example of antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy). the characteristic disregard for the welfare of other people is alarming enough, but now we are seeing the malignant narcisism. this is the construction of a special bubble (around yourself and possibly your chosen few companions) which protects those inside from following the same rules as outsiders. beings inside the bubble are "real" while beings outside the bubble are "less real," and it is totally unnecessary to empathize with the outside beings. their are not special, they are not chosen, and they are simply not as important as you and your fellows in the bubble. you are convinced you hold dominion over others, and that you are privy to special knowledge that others cannot have, and you show remarkable lack of empathy with the suffering of beings outside your bubble.

honestly, it's straight from the DSM-IV. if you really believe the things you are saying, you are General Forum's first real sociopath.


remember that, in the day of science, it was established that no world-wide flood ever occured on planet Earth.


You're putting words in my mouth, I never said women deserve to be raped, only that their pains in labor are that way because God willed it.


Iam not anti-social, sociopaths are people who do what they want, I follow the laws of God.

I won't even respond to that, modern psychiatry is the devil's work.

It has been established there was a worldwide flood.

You're scoffing at the flood! Scoffer!

2 Peter 3:3-10
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:




You scoff at the flood, you're headed to hell! Straight to hell!

you do realize, of course, that if we were to revert to "traditional family values" then most girls would be MARRIED by 16, right? if they aren't ready to have sex, then why are so many traditionalists waxing poetic over the good 'ol days? back in the good 'ol days a female was considered an old maid if she wasn't knocked up by 20! i guess getting married magically makes a girl more able to understand the real consequences of sex...?
Depends on the the area and time period actually. In the 1600's in Germany people didn't get married until mid to late 20's.

There's some company that's working on a male birth-control pill, but so far it only works on about 4 out of 7 mice. The other three it sterilizes. They're not quite sure why.
That doesn't seem like such a bad thing. Too many people anyway.

And of course people like you and Eutursca would never advocate birth control, god forbid!

Personally, if the boyfriend kills them, good. Bitches deserve it. Wear a fucking a condom.

Wow, you must get laid A LOT....

*gasp*

but if we give in to our carnal desires we shall be cast into a pit of eternal fire! just think about how hot it would be, how sweat would pour down our bodies, how we would writhe in the hot, sweaty, nasty pit...no, no we cannot! it would be too naughty! so very, very naughty! we would be so naughty that we would require a cosmic spanking from the Big Daddy...a rough spanking, for our naughty, naughty behavior...

Christianity is so kinky.

Cool Blasphemy Points awarded to both Bottle and Incenjucarania... for brightening up what had thus far shaped up to be a pretty crappy day.

99% of men are potential rapists. Give them the chance, and they'll take it.

Do you have any basis for that?

I find it hard to believe that I am THAT unique, that only one percent of the male population has the same view on sex that I do...

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said women deserve to be raped, only that their pains in labor are that way because God willed it.


Iam not anti-social, sociopaths are people who do what they want, I follow the laws of God.

I won't even respond to that, modern psychiatry is the devil's work.

It has been established there was a worldwide flood.

You're scoffing at the flood! Scoffer!

2 Peter 3:3-10
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:




You scoff at the flood, you're headed to hell! Straight to hell!God never told you his word, he never printed it or actually let anyone in on it. You're following the word of other power hungry anti-social individuals.

The concept of original sin was created by men to steal the rightful place as matriarch of society form women. We gave up Eden when we abandoned the peaceful ways of a matriarchal society and instead followed men into conflict, war and destruction. Then in the ultimate unfairness, the blame was unjustly placed on those least responsible for our "outcast".

God isn't our father, She's our mother.



And she's probably pissed as hell at you right now VE.

You better crawl back down to your basement and rethink your life.

Depo provera shots are quite effective, but costly. iud is costly, men typically don;t use condoms if they don;t want to, and if the girl says no, 75% of the time, he will jsut forcibly have sex with her.
The people you know are 75% rapists? You need to find new friends.

Depends on the the area and time period actually. In the 1600's in Germany people didn't get married until mid to late 20's.
the traditionalists i am refering to are American traditionalists. they claim to yearn for the good 'ol days in America, which consist of a time period in which them Negroes knew their place, and a woman married when she got her period and bore children until she died of it.

2] Rape is a crime of violence, not of sexual desire.
It's very fashionable in some circles to pretend that rape never has anything to do with sexual desire, just as it's fashionable to pretend that everyone who doesn't like homosexuality is "phobic". However, since both of these platitudes are inaccurate, they CONTRIBUTE to rape - and abuse of gay people.

If you pretend that the problem is simpler than it really is, you only make it worse because your solutions aren't addressing all the causes.

Originally in the beginning of time, man was good, but then Eve caused the downfall of man. Why do you think so many women died in labor back then? Why is labor a pain? God made it so to punish womankind for their sins, the sin of Eve.

Why are so many men depraved and given to sin? God is punishing their kind.

I count myself as a male elect, we are a people apart from the typical godless sinners that comprise the wretched and rotten world that we are surrounded by and forced to endure.

But as it was in the day of Noah, so shall it be when the Son of Man is revealed to the world.

Remember that, in the day of Noah, they were going about their daily lives, busy and happy, until the flood came, and carried them away, away to HELL.
You really believe this tripe? Take it to some religious nut board, the discussion was about real-world issues, not imaginary, vicious invisible men who do things like kill children and drown the entire population.

I did not fornicate, not once, nor shall I ever do so.
Yeah, that seems a pretty safe bet

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said women deserve to be raped, only that their pains in labor are that way because God willed it.

re-read the context in which you brought up that point, and explain why you brought it up in the first place.

Iam not anti-social, sociopaths are people who do what they want, I follow the laws of God.

actually, a great many of the world's most famous sociopaths were utterly convinced they either were a) God's chosen, b) the Devil's chosen, or c) the living embodiment of either God or the Devil, or both.


I won't even respond to that, modern psychiatry is the devil's work.
i know it's not fun hearing that you are displaying possible warning signs of a serious illness...believe me, i have been there myself. however, claiming that the people trying to help you are evil isn't going to help anybody, least of all yourself.


It has been established there was a worldwide flood.

really? by whom?


You're scoffing at the flood! Scoffer!

i am scoffing at the notion that there was a world wide flood, just as i scoff at the notion that the world was once encased entirely in a block of taffy. i scoff at both equally because both are equally ludicrous.


2 Peter 3:3-10
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
You scoff at the flood, you're headed to hell! Straight to hell!
extreme and fanatical religiosity often arrises from organic brain injury or disease.

I did not fornicate, not once, nor shall I ever do so.
and that, ladies and gentlemen, is probably the first factually true statement that VoteEarly has ever produced. ;)

It's very fashionable in some circles to pretend that rape never has anything to do with sexual desire, just as it's fashionable to pretend that everyone who doesn't like homosexuality is "phobic". However, since both of these platitudes are inaccurate, they CONTRIBUTE to rape - and abuse of gay people.

If you pretend that the problem is simpler than it really is, you only make it worse because your solutions aren't addressing all the causes.Simple problems usually are just that, simple.

Overthinking them leads to justifying them, which is the real contributor to the two problems you address.

And in high school, I could have had so much sex it wouldn't have been funny.


Not that I automatically doubt that kind of claim, or anything... but do you have a high-school picture you could post, perhaps?

Or by "wouldn't have been funny', perhaps you meant... "none"... which I guess is quite unfunny...

So, nevermind then, eh?

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said women deserve to be raped, only that their pains in labor are that way because God willed it.


Iam not anti-social, sociopaths are people who do what they want, I follow the laws of God.

I won't even respond to that, modern psychiatry is the devil's work.

It has been established there was a worldwide flood.

You're scoffing at the flood! Scoffer!

2 Peter 3:3-10
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:




You scoff at the flood, you're headed to hell! Straight to hell!


Actually, friend... many sociopaths, like many other 'disordered' thinkers... claim 'religion' as the basis of their 'disorder'.

Simply thinking that you are 'doing the work of God', isn't automatic exemption from being a sick puppy.

Depends on the the area and time period actually. In the 1600's in Germany people didn't get married until mid to late 20's.

Unfortunately, if true... that would be a rare time and place in the hstory of human existence.

In most cultures, over most of recorded history... even right up until this last century... 'old enough to bleed' was the same as 'old enough to breed'.

Unpleasant, perhaps... but also true.

Simple problems usually are just that, simple.

Overthinking them leads to justifying them, which is the real contributor to the two problems you address.
Acknowledging and dealing with the *real* causes of problems is not overthinking. The point was, sexual desire plays a part in some rapes and pretending that it doesn't means that you will not be addressing all the factors that cause it. Also that not all anti-gay people are "afraid" of homosexuals.

What is frightening about this refusal to use condoms, is not just the disrespect for the risks of pregnancy, but the total stupidity with respect to AIDS.

Anyone who rapes anyone, whatever the reason is evil. (I mean that)
I appreciate that at least some people still think that. You'd be surprised how many don't. It's not something I'd go into depth about on a public forum, but you can think you know someone very well, and still be surprised at their "values".

Unfortunately, if true... that would be a rare time and place in the hstory of human existence.

In most cultures, over most of recorded history... even right up until this last century... 'old enough to bleed' was the same as 'old enough to breed'.

Unpleasant, perhaps... but also true.
Unfortunately? For most of history, it was perfectly appropriate...we had to breed before disease or injury did us in.

I appreciate that at least some people still think that. You'd be surprised how many don't. It's not something I'd go into depth about on a public forum, but you can think you know someone very well, and still be surprised at their "values".
TELL me about it! I thought I knew my ex really well too! :(

Not that I automatically doubt that kind of claim, or anything... but do you have a high-school picture you could post, perhaps?

Or by "wouldn't have been funny', perhaps you meant... "none"... which I guess is quite unfunny...

So, nevermind then, eh?


I will NOT ever be posting a single photograph of myself online, it'd be on the ARA websites faster than you'd think.

You must really think I'm stupid or something, eh?

Actually, friend... many sociopaths, like many other 'disordered' thinkers... claim 'religion' as the basis of their 'disorder'.

Simply thinking that you are 'doing the work of God', isn't automatic exemption from being a sick puppy.


Resort to ad hominem attacks to marginalize me and what I'm saying, I know exactly what this style of tactics you're using is...

The concept of original sin was created by men to steal the rightful place as matriarch of society form women. We gave up Eden when we abandoned the peaceful ways of a matriarchal society and instead followed men into conflict, war and destruction.
You're stereotyping women just as unfairly as anyone else.

Women may have more natural tendency to be nurturing etc., but are perfectly capable of being warriors, trouble makers, murderers, etc. What will you do with the Condoleeza Rices in your feminist utopia?

Yeah, that seems a pretty safe bet


I will have sex once I am married, not before.

Resort to ad hominem attacks to marginalize me and what I'm saying, I know exactly what this style of tactics you're using is...

Nonsense. Using ad hominem attacks would have been attacking your character in some way.

I didn't do that.

I merely pointed out the (verifiable) fact that many 'disordered' persons 'claim' to be doing the work of god.

Thus, you may exhibit 'sociopathic' tendencies, and you may believe that you are following the divine path.

The two are not exclusive.

It may be telling, perhaps... that you DID take that as an 'ad hominem' attack, however...

I will NOT ever be posting a single photograph of myself online, it'd be on the ARA websites faster than you'd think.

You must really think I'm stupid or something, eh?
What's an "ARA" website? Google gave me "American Retailing Association", "American Rowing Association"...are you afraid that department stores or scullers have an unhealthy interest in seeing you?

You're stereotyping women just as unfairly as anyone else.

Women may have more natural tendency to be nurturing etc., but are perfectly capable of being warriors, trouble makers, murderers, etc. What will you do with the Condoleeza Rices in your feminist utopia?

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (New International Version)
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


1 Timothy 2:11-15 (King James Version)
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Unfortunately? For most of history, it was perfectly appropriate...we had to breed before disease or injury did us in.

I still see that as 'unfortunate'.

Sorry, but mere circumstance doesn't make it any more palatable to me, that men 'used' 13 year old children.

Nonsense. Using ad hominem attacks would have been attacking your character in some way.

I didn't do that.

I merely pointed out the (verifiable) fact that many 'disordered' persons 'claim' to be doing the work of god.

Thus, you may exhibit 'sociopathic' tendencies, and you may believe that you are following the divine path.

The two are not exclusive.

It may be telling, perhaps... that you DID take that as an 'ad hominem' attack, however...


Numerous psychologists have already assured me I am perfectly sane, and I have no brain damage as MRIs have shown. I am a prophet of God, and you attack me because you don't like what I'm saying. But your disagreement is not with me, it is with God, the one who commands me.

What's an "ARA" website? Google gave me "American Retailing Association", "American Rowing Association"...are you afraid that department stores or scullers have an unhealthy interest in seeing you?


The Anarchist movement known as "Anti Racist Action" then there are all the militant gay movements out there, looking to kill Calvinists.

I will have sex once I am married, not before.
Once is probably exactly right

I will have sex once I am married, not before.

Can you hold your breath?

I wouldn't... if I were you....

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (New International Version)
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


1 Timothy 2:11-15 (King James Version)
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Your fanatical blather has nothing to do with what I wrote or what I was responding to. Why don't you go handle snakes or something?

What's an "ARA" website? Google gave me "American Retailing Association", "American Rowing Association"...are you afraid that department stores or scullers have an unhealthy interest in seeing you?
I was trying to work that out!!

Eutrusca, I'm sorry that you've been caused pain in that way, too... I know some people think that that sort of thing is just a "fact of society" or something, but it shouldn't happen. It just SHOULDN'T happen. They'd feel that way too if they ever had some sort of experience that brought them into contact with it.

I still see that as 'unfortunate'.

Sorry, but mere circumstance doesn't make it any more palatable to me, that men 'used' 13 year old children.
Thirteen year olds didn't used to be children in many cultures; those 'men' would have been 13 as well.

I'm not saying that it's appropriate for an advanced civilization, but fore most of our history we were not reading, writing, going to the bank, and so forth, and we were considered full adults whenever we matured physically.

I'm glad it's different now, but I can't regret nature. 13 years is about 12 years longer than most creatures get to grow up!

Numerous psychologists have already assured me I am perfectly sane, and I have no brain damage as MRIs have shown. I am a prophet of God, and you attack me because you don't like what I'm saying. But your disagreement is not with me, it is with God, the one who commands me.
Yeah, cause sane people always have to visit 'numerous" psychologists...but wait...you said that modern psych was the work of the devil, so they must be lying...hmmm...

Numerous psychologists have already assured me I am perfectly sane, and I have no brain damage as MRIs have shown. I am a prophet of God, and you attack me because you don't like what I'm saying. But your disagreement is not with me, it is with God, the one who commands me.

First: I haven't attacked you... merely responded to some of your OWN attacks.... an eye for an eye, and all that...

Second: I find it amusing that you have needed "numerous psychologists" to 'prove' you sane...

Third: Why did you suspect you had brain damage? It seems expensive to get MRI 'just in case'....

Fourth: We only have your word for it... I have seen no reason yet, to suspect that it is 'god' that commands you.

I will NOT ever be posting a single photograph of myself online, it'd be on the ARA websites faster than you'd think.

You must really think I'm stupid or something, eh?

Why does this make me think of Miranda Rights?

The Anarchist movement known as "Anti Racist Action" then there are all the militant gay movements out there, looking to kill Calvinists.
Oh my god your paranoia must make the world so small. Do you ever go outdoors? Who is filling your little head with such crap? Because it's tantamount to child abuse to make you such a distorted, scared thing.

You are supposed to be a human, standing on your own two feet, not a slave to an imaginary, savage, vicious piece of garbage who drowns all his children.

Numerous psychologists have already assured me I am perfectly sane,

wait, i thought that modern mental health professionals were doing the "devil's work"...that's what you said before. yet now you claim that you have submitted to extensive examination by these practitioners of Satan's Arts?


and I have no brain damage as MRIs have shown.

even if i believed that you had taken a single MRI (which i don't), that wouldn't prove anything. any doctor worth a nickel would have told you as much.


I am a prophet of God, and you attack me because you don't like what I'm saying. But your disagreement is not with me, it is with God, the one who commands me.
and your argument is with Eddie the Gnome, who commands me. yet you continue to address me rather than Eddie...you clearly must be in denial about the Truth of Eddie's Word.

I'm sorry that I haven't read all the past stuff of this thread, but I've read the last few pages and I'm not entirely sure what sparked this argument; do you mind if I ask?

First: I haven't attacked you... merely responded to some of your OWN attacks.... an eye for an eye, and all that...

Second: I find it amusing that you have needed "numerous psychologists" to 'prove' you sane...

Third: Why did you suspect you had brain damage? It seems expensive to get MRI 'just in case'....

Fourth: We only have your word for it... I have seen no reason yet, to suspect that it is 'god' that commands you.


2) I had to go to psychologists for unrelated reasons, things that are NONE OF YOUR F------ BUSINESS. I don't care to tell you, and I won't tell you, but I will tell you I am in perfect mental health.

3) I had to go to an MRI for an unrelated problem related to something to do with an unrelated problem, again, none of your business, I won't tell you because it's not your business.

4) Fine, don't believe me, I really don't care. Only the Elect will accept the truth of God anyway.

Vote Early: have you ever witnessed a miracle? Not the birth of a child or something like that, cause people always say that. Be original....

2) I had to go to psychologists for unrelated reasons, things that are NONE OF YOUR F------ BUSINESS. I don't care to tell you, and I won't tell you, but I will tell you I am in perfect mental health.

3) I had to go to an MRI for an unrelated problem related to something to do with an unrelated problem, again, none of your business, I won't tell you because it's not your business.

4) Fine, don't believe me, I really don't care. Only the Elect will accept the truth of God anyway.

VoteEarly, I appreciate your beliefs and respect you for standing strong on them and proclaiming them, as long as you realise that there's going to inevitably be debate and people won't always agree.
But surely you can see the inconsistancy here? You set yourself on high moral ground and look down on other posters, and then swear?

VoteEarly, I appreciate your beliefs and respect you for standing strong on them and proclaiming them, as long as you realise that there's going to inevitably be debate and people won't always agree.
But surely you can see the inconsistancy here? You set yourself on high moral ground and look down on other posters, and then swear?


Pastor Phelps swears, to make his points more strongly, but never the Lord's name in vain.

2) I had to go to psychologists for unrelated reasons, things that are NONE OF YOUR F------ BUSINESS. I don't care to tell you, and I won't tell you, but I will tell you I am in perfect mental health.
YOU brought it up, sugar. But one doesn't go to numerous psychologists for being sane, any more than sane people claim to be "prophets of god"


Fine, don't believe me, I really don't care. Only the Elect will accept the truth of God anyway.
Don't you mean that only the rational will reject superstition? Your god is a figment of the imagination of a semi-barbarian fanatic who lived thousands of years ago

Vote Early: have you ever witnessed a miracle? Not the birth of a child or something like that, cause people always say that. Be original....


Yes, I have, the miracle of my conversion from spirtiual darkness into the doctrine of Grace and the salvation that is achieved by accepting the 5 Points of Calvinism and realizing the Election.

Pastor Phelps swears, to make his points more strongly, but never the Lord's name in vain.
He's human. Surely you should be looking at holy text? Does that say it's okay to swear? You should appear to be "whiter than snow", even if it's not specifically forbidden to swear, you should care about the image you put across and not jeopardise your ministry. Sorry... I say what I think.

Pastor Phelps swears, to make his points more strongly, but never the Lord's name in vain.


who is pastor phelps? and what does he swear about during his surmons?
"ok fucktards...we're passing the offering plate around in a moment....dont be a bunch of cheap bastards."

that kind of thing? what a liberal church!

Pastor Phelps swears, to make his points more strongly, but never the Lord's name in vain.
yeah, and every other word out of Luther's mouth was "shit", so you can't very well call VoteEarly "immoral" for using such language

who is pastor phelps? and what does he swear about during his surmons?
"ok fucktards...we're passing the offering plate around in a moment....dont be a bunch of cheap bastards."

that kind of thing? what a liberal church!


Sorry, but he never passes a collection plate. His church is not a money based Catholic or Episcopalian type. You are never asked for money, and they will not accept money, they don't want money, they're not about money, no true religion is about money.

Thirteen year olds didn't used to be children in many cultures; those 'men' would have been 13 as well.

I'm not saying that it's appropriate for an advanced civilization, but fore most of our history we were not reading, writing, going to the bank, and so forth, and we were considered full adults whenever we matured physically.

I'm glad it's different now, but I can't regret nature. 13 years is about 12 years longer than most creatures get to grow up!

The men probably wouldn't have been 13, would they... survival of the fittest, and all.

In most societies, even 'savage' societies, the spoils go to the most powerful... so, most of those 13 year old 'brides' were probably taken by fully mature men.

I don't 'regret' nature... I just think it unfortunate that our history is based on paedophilia... and that a 'return to the old ways' is somehow viewed as a good thing...

He's human. Surely you should be looking at holy text? Does that say it's okay to swear? You should appear to be "whiter than snow", even if it's not specifically forbidden to swear, you should care about the image you put across and not jeopardise your ministry. Sorry... I say what I think.


We are only commanded not to take the Lord's name in vain.

Sorry, but he never passes a collection plate. His church is not a money based Catholic or Episcopalian type. You are never asked for money, and they will not accept money, they don't want money, they're not about money, no true religion is about money.


Thats a first. Nice. How do they pay for the costs to spread the word of God? No its not about money. But there is a power bill, water bill, church property taxes, church building repairs.....how does the church pay for that kind of thing?

Sorry, but he never passes a collection plate. His church is not a money based Catholic or Episcopalian type. You are never asked for money, and they will not accept money, they don't want money, they're not about money, no true religion is about money.
Pastor Phelps is a textbook sociopath and almost certainly a repressed homosexual.

This scumbag piece of shit is currently busy saying how the Tsunami victims deserved it - http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/jan2005/Phuket_1-4-2005.pdf

Pastor Phelps is a textbook sociopath and almost certainly a repressed homosexual.

This scumbag piece of shit is currently busy saying how the Tsunami victims deserved it - http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/jan2005/Phuket_1-4-2005.pdf


Yah, I know they deserved it, you're preaching to the choir.


Anyway, most people who claim he is a gay, are just queers or queer enablers who have no argument against him, so they make ad hominem attacks against him.

The men probably wouldn't have been 13, would they... survival of the fittest, and all.
You may have a good point, but you failed to make it clear here

In most societies, even 'savage' societies, the spoils go to the most powerful... so, most of those 13 year old 'brides' were probably taken by fully mature men.
I didn't say it was nice or good, and I did express that I'm glad to live in an age where this isn't so often the case, but nature is not interested in our subjective aesthetic and ethical opinions. Animals rape and kill in the course of reproduction on a regular basis; it is no more 'regrettable' than when predators take down a weak gazelle, it simply IS.

I don't 'regret' nature... I just think it unfortunate that our history is based on paedophilia... and that a 'return to the old ways' is somehow viewed as a good thing...
Where did anyone say that it's a good thing? But in a society where you are an adult at 13, marrying a 13 year old isn't pedophelia (and I don't like that term anyway, child molestation shouldn't be called "child love")

I'd bet that the average early-teen from a pre-literate culture is much more mature and ready to handle parenthood than the average UK college kid.

Yah, I know they deserved it.
Then you have passed from "someone I disagree with" to "vicious piece of human shit"

2) I had to go to psychologists for unrelated reasons, things that are NONE OF YOUR F------ BUSINESS. I don't care to tell you, and I won't tell you, but I will tell you I am in perfect mental health.

3) I had to go to an MRI for an unrelated problem related to something to do with an unrelated problem, again, none of your business, I won't tell you because it's not your business.

4) Fine, don't believe me, I really don't care. Only the Elect will accept the truth of God anyway.

Regarding: 1 and 2. I didn't ask you why you had such treatments, and I don't really care, I'm afraid... heartless though you may think me.

What I was commenting on, is that you feel the need to bring up defense of your sanity, and how you can 'prove' it...

Regarding 4. I don't believe you. Thankyou for your permission, but, it was already too late.

... for God's sake, know who your boyfriend is! Murder is the leading cause of death among pregnant women, and hanging around with some guy just because you're desperate is not a good idea for either you or your child/children! :(
February 12th we had a beautiful 17 year old 3 months pregnant woman stabbed to death by her 21 year old boyfriend. His parents were asleep upstairs and said they heard nothing but passerbys heard her screaming out on the street 2 blocks away. When the police got there they found her placed on his bed and him bleeding from self-inflicted wounds.

On the reverse several years ago we had a Japanese girl living here with 2 kids. She drown one and left the other alone in her house for at least 3 days with no supervision. Yes they were both dead. So it isn't just the men who need to be watched. We ended up deporting her home after her family rose a big international stink and bringing political pressure to bear. She will never be allowed back in Canada and is supposed to spend a lot of time in Psyc care.

Sorry, but he never passes a collection plate. His church is not a money based Catholic or Episcopalian type. You are never asked for money, and they will not accept money, they don't want money, they're not about money, no true religion is about money.
That's hardly the point Peech was putting across, and I think you know that and you're dodging the issue.

Sorry, but he never passes a collection plate. His church is not a money based Catholic or Episcopalian type. You are never asked for money, and they will not accept money, they don't want money, they're not about money, no true religion is about money.

A church with NO money... do they hold services in a big cardboard box, under the railway bridge?

We are only commanded not to take the Lord's name in vain.
Colossians 3 verse 8: "But now you also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and shameful speaking out of your mouth."

You may have a good point, but you failed to make it clear here


I didn't say it was nice or good, and I did express that I'm glad to live in an age where this isn't so often the case, but nature is not interested in our subjective aesthetic and ethical opinions. Animals rape and kill in the course of reproduction on a regular basis; it is no more 'regrettable' than when predators take down a weak gazelle, it simply IS.


Where did anyone say that it's a good thing? But in a society where you are an adult at 13, marrying a 13 year old isn't pedophelia (and I don't like that term anyway, child molestation shouldn't be called "child love")

I'd bet that the average early-teen from a pre-literate culture is much more mature and ready to handle parenthood than the average UK college kid.

I base my opinion on the PHYSICAL maturity... if a girl is 13, she is still a child, in terms of sex.

Anyone that thinks about touching my little girl at 13, had better be aware of that.

A church with NO money... do they hold services in a big cardboard box, under the railway bridge?


All the members help build the church with their own efforts and such, but the elder (pastor) lives simply and has not the trappings such that the bishops and cardinals have.

Pastor Phelps is a textbook sociopath and almost certainly a repressed homosexual.

This scumbag piece of shit is currently busy saying how the Tsunami victims deserved it - http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/jan2005/Phuket_1-4-2005.pdf
That's awful. Really, really awful. Without meaning to be overdramatic, I actually do feel very sick and tearful. I'd just like to say that (in the defence of the church), Calvinist beliefs don't reflect that of the whole church body, and any PERSON, religious or otherwise, Christian or Calvinist, should be ASHAMED of trash like that!

All the members help build the church with their own efforts and such, but the elder (pastor) lives simply and has not the trappings such that the bishops and cardinals have.

The trappings... like... food?

"Hey you, you can't just take food from this store"...

"It is god's will, my son"...

I base my opinion on the PHYSICAL maturity... if a girl is 13, she is still a child, in terms of sex.

Anyone that thinks about touching my little girl at 13, had better be aware of that.



13 is way too young, the marriage age, with parental permission, probably could be, say, 16 at the lowest. Since this is biologically in the best of the years for pregnancy.

Some states let kids get married at 11 if they have the parent's permission, sick I think. Most 11 year old boys haven't even reached sexual maturity. Anyway, let the kids have a childhood and be kids for once, they only get to be kids once.

VoteEarly, I notice you're not following me up on the whole swearing thing; is that because what you and your Pastor say is contradicted by scripture?

I base my opinion on the PHYSICAL maturity... if a girl is 13, she is still a child, in terms of sex.

Anyone that thinks about touching my little girl at 13, had better be aware of that.
I am giving up now, because you keep arguing as if I was approving of the way we used to be in our primitive days, and I'm not saying that all.

VoteEarly, I notice you're not following me up on the whole swearing thing; is that because what you and your Pastor say is contradicted by scripture?


Mostly because I'm going to sleep now and I don't have time to think up a thoughtful and meaningful reply.

The trappings... like... food?

"Hey you, you can't just take food from this store"...

"It is god's will, my son"...

"... but could you put the gun down when you say that?"

13 is way too young, the marriage age, with parental permission, probably could be, say, 16 at the lowest. Since this is biologically in the best of the years for pregnancy.
Holy crap, you said something that makes sense - I woulda thought that you, like the other followers of Pastor Phelps, would think the ideal marriage is to a 12 year old cousin!

I am no single mother, but my girlfriend is.

13 is way too young, the marriage age, with parental permission, probably could be, say, 16 at the lowest. Since this is biologically in the best of the years for pregnancy.

actually, no it isn't. please, PLEASE, consult an ob/gyn about this before you even consider getting somebody pregnant, or before you decide to start telling your kids (or anybody else's) such misinformation.

Mostly because I'm going to sleep now and I don't have time to think up a thoughtful and meaningful reply.
Yeah, so, like I said, you gave up because I'm right, and your swearing disgusts God as much as you say homosexuals do.
And, for the record, He doesn't "hate" gay people, He loves them as much as He loves you. Maybe you should try reading your Bible a little more carefully, hun. Focus on that and yourself and getting your life right instead of worrying about criticising other people. I'm not trying to be horrible, but I think it'd be better for you and everyone else that way.

actually, no it isn't. please, PLEASE, consult an ob/gyn about this before you even consider getting somebody pregnant, or before you decide to start telling your kids (or anybody else's) such misinformation.
To be fair, I think she was saying that 16 is the minimum age for reproduction, not the ideal one

Anyway, let the kids have a childhood and be kids for once, they only get to be kids once.

At least I can leave the discussion having agreed with you ONCE.

To be fair, I think she was saying that 16 is the minimum age for reproduction, not the ideal one
"biologically the best years for reproduction" were the words used. that is not factually true.

At least I can leave the discussion having agreed with you ONCE.
Yah, I agreed with that too :)

"... but could you put the gun down when you say that?"

:) That's FUNNY... :)

Yeah, so, like I said, you gave up because I'm right, and your swearing disgusts God as much as you say homosexuals do.
And, for the record, He doesn't "hate" gay people, He loves them as much as He loves you. Maybe you should try reading your Bible a little more carefully, hun. Focus on that and yourself and getting your life right instead of worrying about criticising other people. I'm not trying to be horrible, but I think it'd be better for you and everyone else that way.
if you haven't figured it out by now, let me clue you in:

VE behaves as coward. VE has run away from pretty much every discussion he's been in around here, because he almost immediately gets shown to be a liar, a hypocrite, or a delusional bigot. he tends to wriggle around the issues for a while, but as soon as somebody nails him solidly on something he can't squirm away from VE will turn tail and run.

happily, i find his cowardice extremely entertaining and rewarding. he does more to argue against modern superstition than i could do in a life time, just by openning his mouth. he's a boon to these forums, in my humble opinion, so i hope he doesn't soon get tired of being verbally crushed. personally i am settling more and more on the idea that VE is a character, a persona adopted by a very smart and very witty individual who is having a great deal of fun developing this satirical being we know as VoteEarly. and i can dig it.

Yah, I agreed with that too :)

Just unfortunate that it's probably the ONLY thing we'll ever agree on...

"biologically the best years for reproduction" were the words used. that is not factually true.
Jeez, I'm trying to be fair to the "tsunami victims deserved it" moron, give me a break :-p

So what do you think are the best years for reproduction, biologically? Women's health starts going downhill in the mid-late 20s (assuming average lazy, unhealthy American habits), and you say 16 is too young, so what shall they do, only have babies between 22 and 25?

Again, nobody was saying 16 was IDEAL, just that it was within a healthy range, unlike 13...or 60

...he's been in...
Whoah...voteEarly is a male?! Somehow, that makes it even sadder

Jeez, I'm trying to be fair to the "tsunami victims deserved it" moron, give me a break :-p

why? :P


So what do you think are the best years for reproduction, biologically? Women's health starts going downhill in the mid-late 20s (assuming average lazy, unhealthy American habits), and you say 16 is too young, so what shall they do, only have babies between 22 and 25?

a woman's reproductive system isn't in especially ideal shape when she is 16, because most young women have only recently gotten their periods at that point. most women experience irregular periods for some time after they first begin menstruation, and that is an indicator of the fact that their bodies are still adjusting to being reproductively "adult."

young women are very good at GETTING pregnant, but they actually aren't so great at STAYING pregnant; studies have shown that teenage pregnancies, even under ideal circumstances, tend to end in miscarriage more often than pregnancies in slightly older women (25ish seems to be a really great age, for whatever reason). when you add in the fact that teen girls are going to be less likely to know how to care for themselves properly, and less likely to care for themselves properly even if they are told how, the rates of successful pregnancies drop further...particularly if you include health of the baby in your determination of how successful the pregnancy was.

reproductively speaking, the years from 22-30 seem to be the best, though different studies break down age groups in different ways so those numbers are certainly not a hard and fast rule. there also will be obvious exceptions, since individual women will vary in their reproductive traits. however, generally speaking, the 20s are the "best" time for a woman to reproduce, because that window is when she is most likely to be able to both get pregnant and stay pregnant, as well as produce a healthy baby at the end of the story.

but i'm not an ob/gyn. i really would recommend that anybody who is interested in this topic NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT!!! go to a medical professional with your questions...go to multiple medical professionals.


Again, nobody was saying 16 was IDEAL, just that it was within a healthy range, unlike 13...or 60
yes, 16 would be a "more healthy" age at which to get pregnant than 13, just like 13 is "more healthy" than 10. they still both suck, in the grand scheme of things.

a woman's reproductive system isn't in especially ideal shape when she is 16, because most young women have only recently gotten their periods at that point. most women experience irregular periods for some time after they first begin menstruation, and that is an indicator of the fact that their bodies are still adjusting to being reproductively "adult."
I will defer as you seem to know more than I do about it, but my 33 year old wife has always had irregular periods and the doctors say it's no indication of anything except not living with other women (which strangely tends to synchronize menstruation). As for reproductive health, we have a wonderful toddler =)

yes, 16 would be a "more healthy" age at which to get pregnant than 13, just like 13 is "more healthy" than 10. they still both suck, in the grand scheme of things.
If I didn't believe so much in individual choice, I'd advocate for sterilization at menarche, which can be reversed at 30, earlier if you can demonstrate maturity and sufficient income.

If I didn't believe so much in individual choice, I'd advocate for sterilization at menarche, which can be reversed at 30, earlier if you can demonstrate maturity and sufficient income.

I don't believe so much in in individual choice.

Sterilise everyone, reverse it later.

Sounds fair to me.

Actually - on thinking about it for a few minutes... it seems to me that automatic sterilisation would IMPROVE individual choice...

Since people could then CHOOSE to have sex, but without the risk of an unwanted pregnancy... although, of course, it wouldn't make any difference vis-a-vis disease.

You can't drive a car till you are... what... 18? Is that an infringement of freedom-of-choice? Perhaps, but an acceptable one... due to the risks.

Similarly, not being 'allowed' to get pregnant before, say... 18? Is that an infringement of frredom of choice? Maybe (maybe not), but I think it an acceptable one.

I will defer as you seem to know more than I do about it, but my 33 year old wife has always had irregular periods and the doctors say it's no indication of anything except not living with other women (which strangely tends to synchronize menstruation). As for reproductive health, we have a wonderful toddler =)

some women continue to have irregular periods throughout their lives, while others are like clockwork, and you are right that it doesn't necessarily indicate infertility. however, in the case of young women, you often will see a girl get her first period and then not get her period again for as much as a year, or even two in some cases...this is because their bodies are still sorting out the new biological import of being reproductively "active."

sorry if i was unclear on that point; the irregular periods of young girls are not the CAUSE of their reduced fertility, but rather just happen to be a particular manefestation of their bodies' adjustment. girls don't simply go from zero to UBERFERTILE in one nice step...it's more gradual than many people realize.

also, the development of secondary sex characteristics typically lags behind the advent of the first period, and such characteristics can increase the female's reproductive success. most notably, the widening of the hips tends to reduce a number of potential problems with bearing and delivering young, though (again) this is not a hard and fast rule...there are wide-hipped women who have lots of trouble bearing, and narrow women who have no trouble at all. young women are often still growing, as well, and their bodies would normally want to divert resources to continue the growth of their own tissues; this can complicate matters if the body suddenly has a fetus it needs to nourish.

but it's just a general trend that women whose bodies have been allowed to mature a bit more will have more success in reproducing, and will be less likely to suffer serious complications. it's not a RULE, and i'm sure people can cite exceptions to me all day long. i'm just stating what the trends are, to point out that, if you want to play the odds, 16 is not the best age to bear young.

If I didn't believe so much in individual choice, I'd advocate for sterilization at menarche, which can be reversed at 30, earlier if you can demonstrate maturity and sufficient income.
personally, i would prefer that contraception be in all our drinking water, and that both parents would have to deliberately take the antidote to get pregnant. the antidote could be available down at the local city hall, no application necessary, and no governmental, religious, or medical hoops need be jumped...i just want to prevent "oops" babies from ever happening. the worst possible reason to have a child is "because we got pregnant." in my opinion, the world would be a much, much, much, much better place if children ONLY came into the world if their conception was planned and wanted.

in my opinion, the world would be a much, much, much, much better place if children ONLY came into the world if their conception was planned and wanted.
Clearly, you worship Satan :-p

I count myself as a male elect, we are a people apart from the typical godless sinners that comprise the wretched and rotten world that we are surrounded by and forced to endure.

But indeed no amount of fornication, however small, is funny. Not in the eyes of God.


If you are indeed a 'male elect', then why do you write so much about fornication in your roleplay? Is not fornication a sin? Why would you publicly condone sinful behavior and roleplay it (that is, take on the persona of a sinner)?

Should not a good Christian be careful to avoid sin in any form, including fantasy? In Matthew 5:28, Jesus is very clear on this:

5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You have said repeatedly that the elect know who they are, love God, and follow his laws, yet I am confused by this apparent contradiction.

Clearly, you worship Satan :-p
look, just because i have Satan 'round for tea every Tuesday, and just because a few goats might get sacrificed here and there, none of that means i WORSHIP Satan.

we're just friends. i swear.

If you are indeed a 'male elect', then why do you write so much about fornication in your roleplay? Is not fornication a sin? Why would you publicly condone sinful behavior and roleplay it (that is, take on the persona of a sinner)?

Should not a good Christian be careful to avoid sin in any form, including fantasy? In Matthew 5:28, Jesus is very clear on this:

5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You have said repeatedly that the elect know who they are, love God, and follow his laws, yet I am confused by this apparent contradiction.
*gasp*

might this be an instance in which one of "God's Chosen" does not practice what he preaches?

look, just because i have Satan 'round for tea every Tuesday, and just because a few goats might get sacrificed here and there, none of that means i WORSHIP Satan.

we're just friends. i swear.

He TOLD ME he had to work Tuesdays!

He SWORE he wasn't seeing someone else...

Honestly, he is such a devil...

He TOLD ME he had to work Tuesdays!

He SWORE he wasn't seeing someone else...

well, maybe if YOU would find a virgin to sacrifice for him once in a while...it's not my fault that you can't keep your Price of Darkness satisfied.

well, maybe if YOU would find a virgin to sacrifice for him once in a while...it's not my fault that you can't keep your Price of Darkness satisfied.

That's so unfair!

I told him! I said "I live in Georgia, honey - where am I going to find a virgin?"

He said he understood.... well... I don't care. He can go to hell.

*gasp*

might this be an instance in which one of "God's Chosen" does not practice what he preaches?



I am not sinning in my heart by writing tales of fiction. That reference to "fantasy" is something you are totally taking out of context, it means don't fantasize in your mind and heart. I'm just writing, my writing has nothing to do with any possible repressed desires or urges I have.

That's so unfair!

I told him! I said "I live in Georgia, honey - where am I going to find a virgin?"

He said he understood.... well... I don't care. He can go to hell.
If you can't find a virgin on a message board populated largely by teenage RPGers, you're hopeless.

If you are indeed a 'male elect', then why do you write so much about fornication in your roleplay? Is not fornication a sin? Why would you publicly condone sinful behavior and roleplay it (that is, take on the persona of a sinner)?

Should not a good Christian be careful to avoid sin in any form, including fantasy? In Matthew 5:28, Jesus is very clear on this:

5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You have said repeatedly that the elect know who they are, love God, and follow his laws, yet I am confused by this apparent contradiction.



I don't think I'm acting wrong, I've never lusted after a married woman, or indeed any woman for that matter.

If my writing displeases God, I'll repent and that ends the matter.

You don't understand. Perseverance of the Saints, if God has Elected you, you're going, whether you like it or not, whether you're righteous or whether you sin, for in the end, it's predestinated that you will repent all that you've done, and you will gain and understanding of just how much God loves you, since He takes you into heaven regardless of what the reprobate say.

if you haven't figured it out by now, let me clue you in:

VE behaves as coward. VE has run away from pretty much every discussion he's been in around here, because he almost immediately gets shown to be a liar, a hypocrite, or a delusional bigot. he tends to wriggle around the issues for a while, but as soon as somebody nails him solidly on something he can't squirm away from VE will turn tail and run.

happily, i find his cowardice extremely entertaining and rewarding. he does more to argue against modern superstition than i could do in a life time, just by openning his mouth. he's a boon to these forums, in my humble opinion, so i hope he doesn't soon get tired of being verbally crushed. personally i am settling more and more on the idea that VE is a character, a persona adopted by a very smart and very witty individual who is having a great deal of fun developing this satirical being we know as VoteEarly. and i can dig it.


I was asleep you, argh...

I have a busy day and needed to rest up for later when I have to write some things for various classes.

Whats the statistics in the US currently..

1/3 of all girls by the age of 21 have gotten pregnant at least once?

Me find statistics now... brb.

Man.. it's getting very sad and drastic.
Dude, where do you get these warped statistics?! This is totally not true.

I was asleep you, argh...

I have a busy day and needed to rest up for later when I have to write some things for various classes.


Oh, and some people have to rest up to work later in the day, we all can't sit back and live off the gov't welfare state. Some folks work for a living.

I am not sinning in my heart by writing tales of fiction. That reference to "fantasy" is something you are totally taking out of context, it means don't fantasize in your mind and heart. I'm just writing, my writing has nothing to do with any possible repressed desires or urges I have.

The thought is the deed, my friend.

If you 'think' the act, it is the same as doing it.

So - if you roleplay fornication, in the eyes of god, you are a fornicator.

Oh, and some people have to rest up to work later in the day, we all can't sit back and live off the gov't welfare state. Some folks work for a living.

That's okay.

We don't mind supporting you, we realise you are a valuable member of society... in SOME fashion.

The thought is the deed, my friend.

If you 'think' the act, it is the same as doing it.

So - if you roleplay fornication, in the eyes of god, you are a fornicator.


Nope, sorry, you're wrong. You don't even study the bible except for reasons to attempt to deceive God's Elect and attempt to make them think they're not Elected. But I know I'm Elected, so I say take your leave, reprobate.

That's okay.

We don't mind supporting you, we realise you are a valuable member of society... in SOME fashion.


I have a job, didn't you read that. I work, I don't know what you do. Speaking of which, I have to go in 50 minutes or I may very well be late.