NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

Force of habit?

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

kick his ass and take his girl pussy

Maybe there are sides to him that she sees/that she brings out, that you can't see.

Different people like different things. Someone I'm attracted to my friends might hate or might just see as a mate. And friends who I would see as intelligent and with good taste can have the worst taste in guys IMO.

If he's really such a jerk and if she has a brain, she'll learn soon enough and start looking for a decent guy.

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.She'll learn... maybe.

But I just know that not all girls are like that... I mean, my boyfriend is a really really nice guy (and I think he used to think that the girls he really wanted would never want him). And he thought I was hot before we started dating. :D

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....Um.... yuck.

(Gnostikos, I don't recommend your following his advice.)

Follow it, it will work! Dont take advice from a woman that quotes "Agathe Christie" and say I am woman hear me roar. Probably not the kind of girls your looking for. Doubt they are interested in any guy!

In the title, do you mean "Nice Guys (tm)", or just nice guys?

:fluffle:

That would be why.

Question: do you wear alot of AE and old navy? If so. . . that look doesn't work with nice guys. If you are a nice guy dress like a punk, girls really like that.

:fluffle:
That would be why.
Huh?

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....
being the "good friend" type does suck ass, but lying is worse imo...

The best explanation I've ever heard for why women date jackasses is that if the relationship fails, it isn't their fault.

Unfortunately I have seen more truth in the whole Alpha -male theory then anything else.........*coming from the lonley nice guy himself* The fact that we don't have it in us to try and complicate things for our own interests is one of the things that makes us not atractive....................despite what ever women tell you.

I hear (more often then I'd like to) "Your like the brother I never had".
or
"I just can't imagine be atracted to somone I like so well".
or
"I don't want to risk the valuable freindship we have"

What you don't realise ladies is that by saying things like that you absolutely destroy the person. It takes so much for the average nice guy to try to go out with you (after getting to know you) that when you reject him you shatter his confidence and cripple him.

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....



You got a point here. Think this may be an alternative option for you. Also agree with Marrakech's other post. 100% in fact.

Unfortunately I have seen more truth in the whole Alpha -male theory then anything else.........*coming from the lonley nice guy himself* The fact that we don't have it in us to try and complicate things for our own interests is one of the things that makes us not atractive....................despite what ever women tell you.

I hear (more often then I'd like to) "Your like the brother I never had".
or
"I just can't imagine be atracted to somone I like so well".
or
"I don't want to risk the valuable freindship we have"

What you don't realise ladies is that by saying things like that you absolutely destroy the person. It takes so much for the average nice guy to try to go out with you (after getting to know you) that when you reject him you shatter his confidence and cripple him.
Unfortunately, many females don't seem to realize that. :(

What you don't realise ladies is that by saying things like that you absolutely destroy the person. It takes so much for the average nice guy to try to go out with you (after getting to know you) that when you reject him you shatter his confidence and cripple him.
sure as hell crippled whatever confidence i once had :(

sure as hell crippled whatever confidence i once had :(
Aww, there, there, pal. Cheer up. You ARE e-marrying Tink... :)

dating isn't always easy, but you've got to either dust yourself off and get back in the saddle, or stop dating horses.

I'm somewhat cautious of posting this, simply because some may misconstrue this as a sweeping generalisation that applies to all women. It isn't, but it can sometimes explain the particular behaviour in question.

There are some women who go after the "asshole" in order to tame/change him. I've known of two cases where a woman has married a guy because she thought it would stop him cheating... go figure...

I'd also hazard a guess that some may go for that sort of guy because they (either consciously or subconsciously) feel that they deserve the mistreatment. Same thing goes for guys who get involved with "bitches" as well.

Just keep in mind that what makes one person tick (psychologically speaking) is different to the next.

Originally posted by TPE
Huh?

:fluffle: That's why she wants him. Women don't always have to be serious. Sometimes they just wanna have fun. Some men are serious and some men aren't serious. The nice guy seems serious to some women. That can be scary.

The best explanation I've ever heard for why women date jackasses is that if the relationship fails, it isn't their fault.

damn here I am over 50 and hadn't thought of that one! makes sense though! :)

Aww, there, there, pal. Cheer up. You ARE e-marrying Tink... :)
good point... w00t! i take it all back :p

:fluffle: That's why she wants him. Women don't always have to be serious. Sometimes they just wanna have fun. Some men are serious and some men aren't serious. The nice guy seems serious to some women. That can be scary.
that makes perfect sense. personally, i'd rather go for a meaningful "serious" relationship, rather than just a 'bit of fun'. and a bit of fun wouldn't be that at all - i would make it serious in my head... just the way i am... so i can quite see why chicks would find that scary. i would.

I think that you should take a long look at are there some barriers other than your niceness, for instance, do you dress in the way that is accepted in her crowd? I know shallow as hell, I'm presumeing you are both High School age, if so that gets important.
Is there a racial difference? Some girls really don't want to bring someone of another race home, my very nice half Asian Indian son got into difficulties with that one.
My son and daughter have the same parents me and their dad, but he came out darker, and girls in this stupid town didn't want to take him home to mama.
Another thing, he tended to often be attracted to Protestant girls and he was raised Catholic and turned out to be a real free thinker. He found the moral integrity of Christians good and respects it, but doesn't like the religion part of it. They respected his integrity but didn't like his free thinking attitude. So in a subtle way there was a religious barrier in addtion to the racial barrier.
They just didn't want to buck their silly biggoted families. My son was in terrible denial about their bigotry but we went to the wedding of one of the girls he torched over for a couple years of High School. She was very blonde, and married a very blonde Greek boy, who probably was raised Orthodox. I overheard quite a few casual racial slurs, about brown people, Semitic people, Native Americans and Blacks, They'd sort of see me and clam up, but I have sharp ears. Both of us were too brown to be at that very BLONDE ARYAN gathering.
Anyway if you aren't getting bites where you are at, try fishing a different 'dateing pool' Going to college will pretty much put you in a different dateing pool most of the time, especially if you are able to go away to college.
If you already are in college, see about moving. Girls tend to dislike the local louts, they like new louts! It's chemistry, it's a thing hardwired into most higher life forms.
The guys who are saying to be a bit of a jackass are advising you correctly, at very least be decisive. Decisive is good.

Unfortunately I have seen more truth in the whole Alpha -male theory then anything else.........*coming from the lonley nice guy himself* The fact that we don't have it in us to try and complicate things for our own interests is one of the things that makes us not atractive....................despite what ever women tell you.

I hear (more often then I'd like to) "Your like the brother I never had".
or
"I just can't imagine be atracted to somone I like so well".
or
"I don't want to risk the valuable freindship we have"

What you don't realise ladies is that by saying things like that you absolutely destroy the person. It takes so much for the average nice guy to try to go out with you (after getting to know you) that when you reject him you shatter his confidence and cripple him.

if you are getting reactions like this, you are waiting too long to make your move. dont wait til youre her best friend. if you want to date her GET TO IT. dont pretend you want to be her friend if you really hope to be her boyfriend.

They respected his integrity but didn't like his free thinking attitude. So in a subtle way there was a religious barrier in addtion to the racial barrier.
They just didn't want to buck their silly biggoted families. My son was in terrible denial about their bigotry but we went to the wedding of one of the girls he torched over for a couple years of High School. She was very blonde, and married a very blonde Greek boy, who probably was raised Orthodox. I overheard quite a few casual racial slurs, about brown people, Semitic people, Native Americans and Blacks, They'd sort of see me and clam up, but I have sharp ears. Both of us were too brown to be at that very BLONDE ARYAN gathering.
where do you live? i almost can't believe that there is still that level of religious and/or racial ignorance and intolerance today. its horrible.

being in the racial majority (in the UK), i've never been the subject of any such racial unpleasantries (and we are quite non-religious in the uk), so that may account for my obvious naivety...

It sounds terrible, but I'll bet he lives in the USA, judgeing by the evidence I see regarding attitudes to race round there. Sorry to use the third person when you're around, Zahumlje, but I didn't know exactly how to render it.

For one thing, the girl might have low self esteem. Thus, she believes she is worthless without this guy.

Also, some personalities simply thrive on turmoil. There are people who just can't stand contentment for whatever reason. Usually because they've grown up in a turbulent home, and find a certain level of dysfunction more comfortable than the peace that a truly caring relationship can offer.

Unfortunately, many females don't seem to realize that. :(

Actually, she probably does, and doesn't want to deal with it. If I sense a guy is going to crumble if I don't date him, I'm - get this - not going to date him. Because if he's going to crumble over not getting a positive reply *now*, I don't want to see how he's going to react the first time I have to say "No, I can't go out tonight, I'm busy" when we're dating. Guys who can't accept 'no' as an answer at the start usually can't handle 'no' as an answer further into the relationship.

I agree with whoever said "If you want to ask her out, ask her out. Once you're her friend, she most likely won't want to date you". I would never go out with a guy who was my friend first. Mainly because I'd be suspicious of his motives (if I guy makes friends with me in the hopes of getting laid, and I find out, that's a complete end to all contact right there).

So yes. If you're after girls like me (because I can only be sure that this applies to me, after all), DON'T be her friend first (flirting is fine), and if you won't be able to take no as an answer, you really shouldn't be asking in the first place.

And keep in mind that if you 'change' yourself to being an arsehole just to get girls... well, that's really pathetic, because it means they don't even like YOU, they just like your ridiculous persona. If you're after sex that bad, it's easier just to find the segment of the female population that just wants flings and fuckbuddies.

good point... w00t! i take it all back :p


that makes perfect sense. personally, i'd rather go for a meaningful "serious" relationship, rather than just a 'bit of fun'. and a bit of fun wouldn't be that at all - i would make it serious in my head... just the way i am... so i can quite see why chicks would find that scary. i would.
Why look for one or the other in a relationship? Why not look for a relationship that is both serious AND fun? Such as maybe you start out infatuated or something, and still end up with some serious (good serious) stuff in it?

*Sighs* Well, that's me buggered then. I'm too much of a decent bloke to be an arsehole. I'm already friends with a girl who I'm...interested in, and did not become her friend for the opportunity to screw her but simply because I really like her and we get on well. I'm not the sort to crumple at a second's notice, but I'm not the sort who just wanders around casually trying to get in with everyone.

Maybe I should become a Buddhist monk...

And keep in mind that if you 'change' yourself to being an arsehole just to get girls... well, that's really pathetic, because it means they don't even like YOU, they just like your ridiculous persona. If you're after sex that bad, it's easier just to find the segment of the female population that just wants flings and fuckbuddies.

It's even easier just to pay for hookers.

kick his ass and take his girl pussy
Well, as I've said, I've already got a girlfriend. However, though I hate to say this because she's such a good friend, I have this feeling that I'm using her as a kind of fodder. To get experience, which I lack, and because I can't get the girl I actually want. I don't know how to justify this, however, since that is terribly manipulative potentially at someone else's expense.

Maybe there are sides to him that she sees/that she brings out, that you can't see.
Or anyone else... Seeing as they fight so often I have no idea what that might be.

If he's really such a jerk and if she has a brain, she'll learn soon enough and start looking for a decent guy.
Precisely what I want to figure out. They've been going out for around a year, and haven't gotten along well from what I can tell. Why is it that she would even consider him?

Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool.
How in hell am I supposed to find that out? I have enough trouble knowing how to act at all because I'm not too good in social settings.

In the title, do you mean "Nice Guys (tm)", or just nice guys?
Well, I don't consider myself a "nice guy", I guess trademarked, but this is a common complaint "nice guys" have. And I probably am one of them, just not self-proclaimed, because I don't like most of them.

I think that you should take a long look at are there some barriers other than your niceness, for instance, do you dress in the way that is accepted in her crowd? I know shallow as hell, I'm presumeing you are both High School age, if so that gets important.
Is there a racial difference? Some girls really don't want to bring someone of another race home, my very nice half Asian Indian son got into difficulties with that one.
My son and daughter have the same parents me and their dad, but he came out darker, and girls in this stupid town didn't want to take him home to mama.
Another thing, he tended to often be attracted to Protestant girls and he was raised Catholic and turned out to be a real free thinker. He found the moral integrity of Christians good and respects it, but doesn't like the religion part of it. They respected his integrity but didn't like his free thinking attitude. So in a subtle way there was a religious barrier in addtion to the racial barrier.
They just didn't want to buck their silly biggoted families. My son was in terrible denial about their bigotry but we went to the wedding of one of the girls he torched over for a couple years of High School. She was very blonde, and married a very blonde Greek boy, who probably was raised Orthodox. I overheard quite a few casual racial slurs, about brown people, Semitic people, Native Americans and Blacks, They'd sort of see me and clam up, but I have sharp ears. Both of us were too brown to be at that very BLONDE ARYAN gathering.
Well, thanks for the advice, but it's not applicable to me. She doesn't much worry about bringing anyone home to her parents, including herself. She's moving out in a few months, and sometimes doesn't return home for over a week. And seeing as both of us have pale skin, dark hair, and are certainly not religious with similar views on religion. So I think that I'm fine in those areas.

I agree with whoever said "If you want to ask her out, ask her out. Once you're her friend, she most likely won't want to date you". I would never go out with a guy who was my friend first. Mainly because I'd be suspicious of his motives (if I guy makes friends with me in the hopes of getting laid, and I find out, that's a complete end to all contact right there).

So yes. If you're after girls like me (because I can only be sure that this applies to me, after all), DON'T be her friend first (flirting is fine), and if you won't be able to take no as an answer, you really shouldn't be asking in the first place.
sorry - stupid question, but... i would have thought (if i were a chick) that a friend asking one out would be preferential to a relative stranger. i mean, the stranger is going to be interested in you based solely on looks and physical attraction. a friend knows you, your personality, and is able to make a more informed and fair assessment of you. its hard to put into words this late at night, but basically a friend won't judge you based just on looks (and probably won't (initially) just be wanting a shag), while this is all a stranger has to go on (and is evidently their primary motivation...trust me, i'm a dude ;) ). if i were a chick, i'd be far more... happy/flattered with a friend asking me out, than a stranger doing so cos he thinks i look hot and knows nothing about me.
:confused:

If you're attracted to somebody, and you enjoy that person's company, and you feel that is reciprocated, make your move already. Being a "nice guy" has nothing to do with it. Just remember that spinelessness is not an attractive quality.

Why look for one or the other in a relationship? Why not look for a relationship that is both serious AND fun? Such as maybe you start out infatuated or something, and still end up with some serious (good serious) stuff in it?
well yeah i'm not super-serious, but in a clear-cut distinction between 'pure fun' relationships and 'serious & meaningful' ones, give me the latter any day :)
fun in a relationsip is all good (essential), but without any form of the 'serious' aspect of the relationship, it's meaningless

Nice guys finish last eh? *clutches trophy* Well, all I can say, is that they better not, or i'll be upset. ;)

I agree with whoever said "If you want to ask her out, ask her out. Once you're her friend, she most likely won't want to date you". I would never go out with a guy who was my friend first. Mainly because I'd be suspicious of his motives (if I guy makes friends with me in the hopes of getting laid, and I find out, that's a complete end to all contact right there).
Really? So if I became friends with a girl because I really like her as a person, as I have, and would like to step up the relationship, then you would never accept that? If the guy isn't interested in sex, which you should be able to tell?

If you're after sex that bad, it's easier just to find the segment of the female population that just wants flings and fuckbuddies.
This is a problem I'm sure I'm going to have to deal with. I want the emotional side of the relationship, I'm not looking for sex at all. That is a perquisite, sure, but not a motive in any way.

sorry - stupid question, but... i would have thought (if i were a chick) that a friend asking one out would be preferential to a relative stranger. i mean, the stranger is going to be interested in you based solely on looks and physical attraction. a friend knows you, your personality, and is able to make a more informed and fair assessment of you. its hard to put into words this late at night, but basically a friend won't judge you based just on looks (and probably won't (initially) just be wanting a shag), while this is all a stranger has to go on (and is evidently their primary motivation...trust me, i'm a dude ;) ). if i were a chick, i'd be far more... happy/flattered with a friend asking me out, than a stranger doing so cos he thinks i look hot and knows nothing about me.
:confused:

Well, there are lines. See, I don't mean 'someone I've never had contact with before' (because that's also creepy). I mean 'someone I've talked to occasionally, seen in class or what not, and flirted with a whole bunch'.

I don't date friends because both times I have, it turned out the SOLE reason they became friends with me was because they were hoping to go out with me. And I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just absolutely sickens me. If a guy wants to go out with me, he should bloody well ask me out. Anything else is just slimy manipulation as far as I'm concerned.

sorry - stupid question, but... i would have thought (if i were a chick) that a friend asking one out would be preferential to a relative stranger. i mean, the stranger is going to be interested in you based solely on looks and physical attraction. a friend knows you, your personality, and is able to make a more informed and fair assessment of you. its hard to put into words this late at night, but basically a friend won't judge you based just on looks (and probably won't (initially) just be wanting a shag), while this is all a stranger has to go on (and is evidently their primary motivation...trust me, i'm a dude ;) ). if i were a chick, i'd be far more... happy/flattered with a friend asking me out, than a stranger doing so cos he thinks i look hot and knows nothing about me.
:confused:

It's not that simple. Sure, many women don't like random strangers coming up and asking them out, but they also don't want to muddle up their close friendships with the trials and tribulations of romantic relationships. If you're interested in a girl romanticly (and physically, as it were), then don't approach them and act as if all you're interested in is being friends. Let them know you want to be with them romanticly, from the beginning. I'm not a woman, but I can say personally that there is little that is less attractive than dishonesty.

If you're attracted to somebody, and you enjoy that person's company, and you feel that is reciprocated, make your move already.
Yeah, it's that last thing that is typically missing. The whole reciprocal part.

Yeah, it's that last thing that is typically missing. The whole reciprocal part.
Thats definitely an issue... If you only receive "friend" vibes then making a move may only add complications. However, I wouldn't lose hope; the key is to be open and true to yourself.

Of course you can continue to be her friend, but also be flirty, let her know that you're interested via less obvious means. That's a more subtle way to tell if the girl in question is interested.

Well, there are lines. See, I don't mean 'someone I've never had contact with before' (because that's also creepy). I mean 'someone I've talked to occasionally, seen in class or what not, and flirted with a whole bunch'.

I don't date friends because both times I have, it turned out the SOLE reason they became friends with me was because they were hoping to go out with me. And I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just absolutely sickens me. If a guy wants to go out with me, he should bloody well ask me out. Anything else is just slimy manipulation as far as I'm concerned.
It's not that simple. Sure, many women don't like random strangers coming up and asking them out, but they also don't want to muddle up their close friendships with the trials and tribulations of romantic relationships. If you're interested in a girl romanticly (and physically, as it were), then don't approach them and act as if all you're interested in is being friends. Let them know you want to be with them romanticly, from the beginning. I'm not a woman, but I can say personally that there is little that is less attractive than dishonesty.

ok, ok, i was thinking of a proper stranger situation - like in a club.

answer me this question then... i really like a girl on my course, we share one module and see each other twice a week, and have known each other for a couple of months now. we sit together, hang out and have talked together a fair bit. we're into the same stuff, and i really would like to be her friend, but i'd also like to go out with her. the problem is she already has a boyfriend... what the hell do i do? not be her friend because i do want to get together with her and thats a bad thing? or just be her friend anyway? or what? :confused:

Really? So if I became friends with a girl because I really like her as a person, as I have, and would like to step up the relationship, then you would never accept that? If the guy isn't interested in sex, which you should be able to tell?

'Should be able to tell'? I'm sorry, but since one of the main things that Nice Guys TM do is pretend not to be interested in a girl for sex so they'll 'like' them, I don't think that's really fair. I don't see a relationship as a 'step up' from a friendship, either. They're totally different things. But then again, I look for different things in a relationship than I do in a friendship.

This is a problem I'm sure I'm going to have to deal with. I want the emotional side of the relationship, I'm not looking for sex at all. That is a perquisite, sure, but not a motive in any way.

Let me get this straight... you aren't looking for sex, and it's not a motive... but it's a prerequisite? Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't understand how that's possible (or maybe I'm correcting the spelling when I shouldn't be).

'Should be able to tell'? I'm sorry, but since one of the main things that Nice Guys TM do is pretend not to be interested in a girl for sex so they'll 'like' them, I don't think that's really fair.
Well, perhaps you should be less suspicious. If you really know a guy as a friend, you should be able to tell.

I don't see a relationship as a 'step up' from a friendship, either. They're totally different things. But then again, I look for different things in a relationship than I do in a friendship.
I didn't mean a step up, I meant step up. The nounal and verbal forms have different meanings.

Let me get this straight... you aren't looking for sex, and it's not a motive... but it's a prerequisite? Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't understand how that's possible (or maybe I'm correcting the spelling when I shouldn't be).
Yep, it's the last one. It's perquisite. What perk is a contraction of.

So you expect sex as a given, but don't actively pursue a sexual relationship?

I can see Gnostikos' point: surely, if you're a good friend of someone and you both like one another a lot, a more intimate relationship's formation is a perfectly natural thing to occur?

So you expect sex as a given, but don't actively pursue a sexual relationship?
No, I don't even expect sex. I've never had it, and, though I wouldn't be averse to it, don't expect it at all.

(Dear Agony Aunt...) i'm off to bed in a mo but am too curious about this question to go... (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8273467&postcount=45)

No, I don't even expect sex. I've never had it, and, though I wouldn't be averse to it, don't expect it at all.
In that case, I don't think "prerequisite" was the word you were looking for. That implies that sex is a requirement, not something you "wouldn't be adverse to".

In that case, I don't think "prerequisite" was the word you were looking for. That implies that sex is a requirement, not something you "wouldn't be adverse to".
And that's why I used the word "perquisite", not "prerequisite".

In that case, I don't think "prerequisite" was the word you were looking for. That implies that sex is a requirement, not something you "wouldn't be adverse to".

pssst, he meant the non-prerequisite word. We both apparently just suck :p

*Prods his question*

My bad. I actually did not know that "perquisite" was a word until moments ago.

The more you know *rainbow appear overhead.

(Dear Agony Aunt...) i'm off to bed in a mo but am too curious about this question to go... (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8273467&postcount=45)

Heh, sorry if you were waiting for me to respond.

Well, going for a girl with a boyfriend is generally a bad idea, and can be messy (trust me), so unless she's really outstandingly amazing, I wouldn't bother, myself, and wouldn't recommend you do it either. But if she is outstandingly amazing, and you do want to wait it out, then there is little you can do other than let her know you're interested and hope she feels the same.

I should have elaborated before. It's okay to be friends with a girl you're interested in. Just don't act like that's all you want. If you want to be with her, let her know that. Make it evident from the beginning that you ideally want to date her. Don't try to "just be friends" in an attempt to get close to her and eventually date her. There's nothing saying you can't be friends with someone you want to sleep with; indeed, a good relationship should be based on friendship. But make sure she knows you like her.

I can see Gnostikos' point: surely, if you're a good friend of someone and you both like one another a lot, a more intimate relationship's formation is a perfectly natural thing to occur?

Not for me. I look for totally different things in 'friends' and 'boyfriends'. Once a guy gets to the friend level, it means I like certain things about him which I wouldn't like in a boyfriend. For me the two things are totally different.

I guess the point here is that I know, within a few minutes usually, if I 'like' like a guy. If I don't, that's not going to change, and I won't want to go out with him - it's 'friends only', pretty much. And if I do, I can't be 'friends' with him at all, because I like him. So there's really no way for guys to cross from 'friend' to 'boyfriend'.

And if a guy becomes my friend with the hopes of eventually going out with me, he's a shitty friend for not telling the truth at the beginning. I don't tolerate that sort of shit from friends.

So you expect sex as a given, but don't actively pursue a sexual relationship?

This entire post is a "in general mode" and if you don't fit, fien whatever.

Men don't distinguish between relationships with women. We want to fuck all women. There is no "sexual relationship" and there is no "non-sexual relationship" there is the "relationship where we're having sex" and there is the "relationship where I want to be having sex."

Women work differently. Women distinguish between them. For women there are sexual and non-sexual relationships.

As noted by the other guys earlier, a "nice guy" that gets rejected by a woman whom he is a friend with wanted to fuck her the entire time and finally worked up the courage to try and make his intentions clear, only to be shot down by a statement that roughly translates to "I'm not interested in fucking you, you're not good enough for me." A woman can say whatever she likes, but that is the proper translation that men hear.

/end disclaimer of generality/

Gnostikes, perquisite means

1) A payment or profit received in addition to a regular wage or salary, especially a benefit expected as one's due. See Synonyms at right.
2) A tip; a gratuity.
3) Something claimed as an exclusive right: “Politics was the perquisite of the upper class” (Richard B. Sewall).

I guess that applies to the situation.. yeah I can see that applying. :shrug:

Simple solution, don't be friends. Building a relationship that you don't want won't get you what you want. Ask her out almost first thing. Don't give yourself time to build a "non-sexual relationship" with a girl you want to date. It's not worth it for you.

PM how old are you? Some people said you were forty? Guess not.

DONT ask her out. Not yet at least due to what you said, I get the feeling that she doesn't really "know you". In other words, that's what she might say, especially because she has a bf. Women know when guys like them, most of the time anyway. Women may ignore the fact that you like them because they dont like you, WANT YOU TO MAKE THE FIRST MOVE, ARE NERVOUS, DON'T WANT TO COMPLICATE THINGS WITHTHEIR BF, or WANT TO KEEP THEIR OPTIONS OPENED. One, you need to figure out which one it is. But you can't ask her, be blunt, or suggestvie. Try getting to know her friends, becoming friends with her friends. That will put the odds on your side. You also need to figure out what's going on with her and her bf. And find some ground with her. Just because you notice you have things in common doesn't mean she notices it.

Make sense? :)

True but some men are subtle and some are not. Some women like control, some women don't. But no woman likes a shy, timid, or passive guy, they don't want to have to do all the work.

If they wnat to fluffle with you that is.

True but some men are subtle and some are not. Some women like control, some women don't. But no woman likes a shy, timid, or passive guy, they don't want to have to do all the work.

Actually, there are women who don't mind doing all the work.

Sure, I consider them utterly insane, but you know, whatever floats your boat and all.

They're willing to do all the work when they get in bed, but if they really want to have sex with you they're either to nervous to ask or don't want to wait (not wanting to deal with timidness, shyness, passiveness)

Heh, sorry if you were waiting for me to respond.

Well, going for a girl with a boyfriend is generally a bad idea, and can be messy (trust me), so unless she's really outstandingly amazing, I wouldn't bother, myself, and wouldn't recommend you do it either. But if she is outstandingly amazing, and you do want to wait it out, then there is little you can do other than let her know you're interested and hope she feels the same.

I should have elaborated before. It's okay to be friends with a girl you're interested in. Just don't act like that's all you want. If you want to be with her, let her know that. Make it evident from the beginning that you ideally want to date her. Don't try to "just be friends" in an attempt to get close to her and eventually date her. There's nothing saying you can't be friends with someone you want to sleep with; indeed, a good relationship should be based on friendship. But make sure she knows you like her.
*wakes up from comfy slumber on keyboard*
mm? ah tis ok :p

cheers for the advice, i have been thinking of letting her know recently, and i will now. damn shame about the whole boyfriend thing...
she's pretty damn cool if you ask me, so i think i'll pursue this anyway... despite the complications :)

PM how old are you? Some people said you were forty? Guess not.

DONT ask her out. Not yet at least due to what you said, I get the feeling that she doesn't really "know you". In other words, that's what she might say, especially because she has a bf. Women know when guys like them, most of the time anyway. Women may ignore the fact that you like them because they dont like you, WANT YOU TO MAKE THE FIRST MOVE, ARE NERVOUS, DON'T WANT TO COMPLICATE THINGS WITHTHEIR BF, or WANT TO KEEP THEIR OPTIONS OPENED. One, you need to figure out which one it is. But you can't ask her, be blunt, or suggestvie. Try getting to know her friends, becoming friends with her friends. That will put the odds on your side. You also need to figure out what's going on with her and her bf. And find some ground with her. Just because you notice you have things in common doesn't mean she notices it.


well i wasn't planning on asking her out anytime soon anyway :)

we definatley have things in common, and i can quite see us becoming good friends in the future. i think she knows i like her - body language can be revealing to the both of us :) but i don't know if she's waiting for me to move, or whether her b/f is a barrier. she has been going out with him for a long time apparently, and i've met him - very nice & cool dude. she's happy with him it seems, so i'm confused! i have no right disturbing her happiness by selfishly proclaiming my interest in her, but then... arg! the more i think about this the more confused i get!
i think i'm just gonna play it cool for now, just be friends, but let her know that i'm interested when the time is right - both when i know her a bit better, and probably only when i have to, like the end of term when we might not see each other again...


i'm 19 btw... who said i was 40? :confused: lol :p
(hmm do i act like a 40 yr old or something??)


than you both very much for the advice, btw :fluffle: :fluffle:
i'm no good with relationships, see.

One of the great guy-myths about women, is that "women don't like nice guys and they only like jerks". Women like nice guys. They prefer nice guys to jerks. However, they are hard-wired to be attracted to guys who are in control, confident and don't let others walk over them. Jerks trigger this sort of attraction. Most men who think of themselves as "nice guys", however, are the sort of spineless jellyfish who still need mommy to take care of them. If you can the sort of guy that has his situation under control, who is confident, who does not let a woman walk all over you, who can tease them every once in a while (without going overboard and veering into "insult" territory) and still be a nice a decent guy, you'll really be attracting the ladies.

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

True true. I'm quite curious about that myself.

I went out with a girl, and she says I was too nice and too caring, that I would be someone she would like to marry, but now that we're still young she doesn't want to get to involve with me. WTF!!!!!??!??!?!?! :( :(

Upper Cet Kola Ytovia: she's got it!

Ok, stud here the truth, hard and ugly.
I used to be a real asshole, but now I am a nice Christian boy that has been married for three years. My wife married the bad boy. I treated women very, very badly. I slept with them just for sport and never called, did degrading things to them (with their complete permission of course) in bedrooms at parties, then told everyone about it while they were still there. I literally slept with tons of women, all the time. And they flocked to me wherever I went. Now, I was fairly popular around a very "druggie/partier" segment of highschool, and was the only person in Grade 9 with my own apartment (left my house because of abuse issues, long story) and had every opprotunity to be in a place conducive to sex. And man, did I ever get a lot. I mean a lot.

And here is the thing, the women I teated badly, no matter how bad, they came back for more, telling me they loved me all the time. The ones that wanted me the most though, and this is a little telling, were the ones that were warned about me by their friends. Even my wife falls into that category. She still talks about how she always tried to date really nice boys, and I just asked her why she switched, firstly, she said they didn't have confidence, she had to spend a lot of time reassuring them when they were saying "I suck, I don't deserve you, I'm pathetic!" After awhile, she wanted to say, "You know, you're right, you do suck!"
And, on the night that she met me, my roomate, her friend, warned her saying that I was going to use her and lose her. She told me about it, and I said, "yeah, I probably will."
She asked me why she should be with me and I said, "You shouldn't, but you can't help yourself!"
We've been together for five years now.
So, it is all about confidence in her eyes, I walked into a room like I owned it, no matter where we went. And I was willing to break heads for her.
I think it also had to do with other women liking me, women eat that stuff up, nothing makes you attractive like other women wanting you.
To end, she dated nice boys, now she is with a good man.

WWJD
Amen.

Some women don't feel worthy of having nice guys.

One of the great guy-myths about women, is that "women don't like nice guys and they only like jerks".
And that is what is puzzling me. Because I thought that was so, and here I am in a situation where it seems to be true.

Um, actually I'm a "he", not a "she". Not that I'm insulted, but it's best to avoid confusion, especially considering the subject matter.

What I said was a very general rule. Your mileage may vary. Er, rather, individual situations have all these little complicating details. Especially when a woman is already in a relationship, getting out of the relationship can be a scary thing. For one thing, it's simply a change, which for a lot of people is scary in and of itself. And a whole lot of women have this idea that they have no value unless they are in a relationship. Which is bogus, because if a woman is worthless a man isn't going to change that, and if a woman is a worthwhile person she's going to be so whether she's in a relationship or not. But there's a lot of societal programming going on there.

I really don't know enough about your situation to suggest a course of action. I'm not a big fan of the idea of being in a relationship you really don't want to be in, but then again we men have an unhealthy fascination with "the one we can't have" and maybe it's best to turn away. I don't know, and given my own screwy love situation, I'm probably not the right guy to be dispensing advice.

Id like to think i was a nice guy but unfortunatly i didnt even get a register on the polls. :(
Well i did get 5 votes. ;)

True true. I'm quite curious about that myself.

I went out with a girl, and she says I was too nice and too caring, that I would be someone she would like to marry, but now that we're still young she doesn't want to get to involve with me. WTF!!!!!??!??!?!?! :( :(

Translation "You're too much of a spineless wimp" or something equally along that line. The one only and excuse you should ever believe from a woman is "I'm dating someone else" and *only* believe that if you can verify that fact independently of her/one of her female friends. Otherwise every "soft" breakup/rejection is just a lie trying to save your feelings but results in nothing other than confusion.

Ok, stud here the truth, hard and ugly.
I used to be a real asshole, but now I am a nice Christian boy that has been married for three years. My wife married the bad boy. I treated women very, very badly. I slept with them just for sport and never called, did degrading things to them (with their complete permission of course) in bedrooms at parties, then told everyone about it while they were still there. I literally slept with tons of women, all the time. And they flocked to me wherever I went. Now, I was fairly popular around a very "druggie/partier" segment of highschool, and was the only person in Grade 9 with my own apartment (left my house because of abuse issues, long story) and had every opprotunity to be in a place conducive to sex. And man, did I ever get a lot. I mean a lot.

And here is the thing, the women I teated badly, no matter how bad, they came back for more, telling me they loved me all the time. The ones that wanted me the most though, and this is a little telling, were the ones that were warned about me by their friends. Even my wife falls into that category. She still talks about how she always tried to date really nice boys, and I just asked her why she switched, firstly, she said they didn't have confidence, she had to spend a lot of time reassuring them when they were saying "I suck, I don't deserve you, I'm pathetic!" After awhile, she wanted to say, "You know, you're right, you do suck!"
And, on the night that she met me, my roomate, her friend, warned her saying that I was going to use her and lose her. She told me about it, and I said, "yeah, I probably will."
She asked me why she should be with me and I said, "You shouldn't, but you can't help yourself!"
We've been together for five years now.
So, it is all about confidence in her eyes, I walked into a room like I owned it, no matter where we went. And I was willing to break heads for her.
I think it also had to do with other women liking me, women eat that stuff up, nothing makes you attractive like other women wanting you.
To end, she dated nice boys, now she is with a good man.

WWJD
Amen.

Alright man. I sincerely hope that I'm getting you wrong here. And if your ideals and morals have really changed since then than I applaud that. But from what you say here, you write this entire spiel about how attractive you are, how much sex you got, and why your wife and countless other women see you and swoon. And then you sign off with a nice little hoighty-toighty Christian catch phrase like you aren't being the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen!

Do us all a favor, if your a Christian, please don't tell anyone because it's people like you give that give us a bad name. Turn to God when you're willing to give up your pride and your reminiscing of the glory days. Once again I sincerely hope I got you wrong.

I go for nice guys, I have steady enduring relationships as opposed to friends of mine who dont go for nice guys...works for me!

I like to walk that line between "Nice guy" and "Jerk". When it comes to me really liking a guy he has to be a bit of both or it gets stale and boring.

Actually, there are women who don't mind doing all the work.
Eh?

Hmmmm..... :D

*ralieses that all his romantic problems are his fault for being a pushover and gose to hang himself*


:eek:

*ralieses that all his romantic problems are his fault for being a pushover and gose to hang himself*


:eek:

Decided to aim for the necrophiliac demograph then, eh?

*ralieses that all his romantic problems are his fault for being a pushover and gose to hang himself*


:eek:

Yeah, way to suck...I mean, don't kill yourself...or something....

Come on pencil, don't be so overdramatic.

Come on pencil, don't be so overdramatic.


When talking about something so "close to home"....I'd like to see you be detached and univolved.

I am detached and uninvolved.

I've heard of girls like that of having a jack ass bf, for the sake of having someone. It goes both ways, I;m guilty if this too, but maybe she doesn't know you like her. Or maybe the sex is just mind blowing.

Okay perhaps I should explain more in detail....(although nobody probrobly wants to hear it)

I'm the worst case scenario guy were talking about here. The guy who doen't go to college because he isn't smart enough to make it. Isn't very funny and not too good looking either. I'm lucky if Iv'e got 5"s on me and don't have my own car so at the moment I am staying with my mother......I have absolutly NOTHING to be confident about so my only to attract people is to be nice and understanding. The problem is you people are RIGHT I look at my life and it falls in line with what is being said here The woman I love is engaged to some guy who had the confidence to buy her flowers after the first time they met. So yeah I'm a little rattled here.

I think you are very nice and understanding. I'm wondering, how old are you? Maybe not necessarily with this girl, but with other girls in the future, you can use your "averageness" to attract them. A lot of girls feel the same way you do.

me? meh 20 so most of my babb;e is still hormones.

me? meh 20 so most of my babb;e is still hormones.

There's plenty of girls out there, they'll come around

You'll find someone, you're only 20.

You'll find someone, you're only 20.
I doubt I will....

Remember what I told you about sad people?

Remember what I told you about sad people?
I still say to myself "I'll see it when I believe it, and I believe it!". Sounds pretty optimistic to me, doesn't it?

That is a good way to look at it.

That is a good way to look at it.
Thanks.

:) Yw.

:) Yw.
:)

Well Pencilsama. I'm 20 as well.. And GF-less at the moment.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Translation "You're too much of a spineless wimp" or something equally along that line. The one only and excuse you should ever believe from a woman is "I'm dating someone else" and *only* believe that if you can verify that fact independently of her/one of her female friends. Otherwise every "soft" breakup/rejection is just a lie trying to save your feelings but results in nothing other than confusion.

Well, she said I reminded her of her Dad.. Eek.. :p

Alright! Time to beat her senseless to show I'm not a WIMP! Muahahah

J/k.. I asked her best friend, she says she's not dating someone else at the moment, but she (the friend says) that I'm too straight and damn boring!! :( plus we're still friends in the same group of friends.

I don't do what other guys are mostly doing, like going out clubbing and having fun. To me thats not fun its expensive and tiring. The only good part about it, is that I tend to be the driver and get to drive some of my friends cars home (since their all pissed drunk)

I'm mostly with my dad and his friends at the golfee's (which i'm still piss poor) talking business, politics and other rubbish. Either than that, I'm out with guyfriends cybercafe or at home reading or chatting with you guys. And yeah.. university.

I think I should get a boring girlfriend who loves reading. Easier to handle :D

<Discontinuing Hijacking of Thread>

I hear (more often then I'd like to) "Your like the brother I never had".



So what, brothers and sisters have been known to be more than just brothers and sisters before. Make that argument and see what happens. :D

So what, brothers and sisters have been known to be more than just brothers and sisters before. Make that argument and see what happens. :D
Yup. He can tell her it's in the Bible (who did Cain married, eh?), so it must be ok.

I hope "Your like my dad" is in the same category as a 'brother or sister never had'.

I'm still cool right. :cry:

Okay perhaps I should explain more in detail....(although nobody probrobly wants to hear it)

I'm the worst case scenario guy were talking about here. The guy who doen't go to college because he isn't smart enough to make it. Isn't very funny and not too good looking either. I'm lucky if Iv'e got 5"s on me and don't have my own car so at the moment I am staying with my mother......I have absolutly NOTHING to be confident about so my only to attract people is to be nice and understanding. The problem is you people are RIGHT I look at my life and it falls in line with what is being said here The woman I love is engaged to some guy who had the confidence to buy her flowers after the first time they met. So yeah I'm a little rattled here.
darlin' you may be a pathetic loser but DONT TELL HER THAT.

find something you excell at and develop it. everyone has something they can be proud of themselves for. you dont have to go to college to be successful. you dont have to be handsome or funny. you just have to have some self esteem or at least PRETEND TO. dont be anyones doormat. its not going to work for you.

and find a new girl to love. there is no sense remaining obsessed with a girl you never had a real relationship with.

not that *I* think you are a pathetic loser. thats the essense of YOUR description of yourself. people who think they are losers get treated like losers.

Ok, stud here the truth, hard and ugly.
I used to be a real asshole, but now I am a nice Christian boy that has been married for three years. My wife married the bad boy. I treated women very, very badly. I slept with them just for sport and never called, did degrading things to them (with their complete permission of course) in bedrooms at parties, then told everyone about it while they were still there. I literally slept with tons of women, all the time. And they flocked to me wherever I went. Now, I was fairly popular around a very "druggie/partier" segment of highschool, and was the only person in Grade 9 with my own apartment (left my house because of abuse issues, long story) and had every opprotunity to be in a place conducive to sex. And man, did I ever get a lot. I mean a lot.

And here is the thing, the women I teated badly, no matter how bad, they came back for more, telling me they loved me all the time. The ones that wanted me the most though, and this is a little telling, were the ones that were warned about me by their friends. Even my wife falls into that category. She still talks about how she always tried to date really nice boys, and I just asked her why she switched, firstly, she said they didn't have confidence, she had to spend a lot of time reassuring them when they were saying "I suck, I don't deserve you, I'm pathetic!" After awhile, she wanted to say, "You know, you're right, you do suck!"
And, on the night that she met me, my roomate, her friend, warned her saying that I was going to use her and lose her. She told me about it, and I said, "yeah, I probably will."
She asked me why she should be with me and I said, "You shouldn't, but you can't help yourself!"
We've been together for five years now.
So, it is all about confidence in her eyes, I walked into a room like I owned it, no matter where we went. And I was willing to break heads for her.
I think it also had to do with other women liking me, women eat that stuff up, nothing makes you attractive like other women wanting you.
To end, she dated nice boys, now she is with a good man.

WWJD
Amen.


Please don't ever try to call yourself a Calvinist, you can claim to be a "mainstream" Jesus loves and saves all, Christian, but never take the title of Calvinist. Your sheer pride over your past misdeeds is such that it seems to me you have not repented, indeed you boast.

Its a matter of natue vs. nurture. Women are designed with an inborn nurturing device. Its their "motherly" instinct. Women feel the most valuable when they are taking care of someone. When this girl sees someone like you, a "nice guy", she thinks that you dont need her because you already have your shit together. you are a good guy. But, this guy shes with, this jerk, She feels like she can change him, and it is her natural born instinct to want to do that. What she doesnt realize, is that she cannot do this. He will never change. If you want her, rather than make her think that your the better guy, and that you would treat her better, and that you really like her sooooo much... try instead to make her realize that he will never change, and there is nothing she can do to change him. Dont turn it into a battle over you want her more than him, or you deserve her, or she deserves you. If you do this, then at best, she will leave him, but she will also leave you. At worst, she will leave you and stay with him. Hope this helps.

Scott

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

Absolutely. I have this thing for this guy who treats me like dirt, because I always remember how well he treated me for the 2 weeks we were going out... before dumping me in email. Sensitive huh? I figure she lloves the person she believes he is - not who he actually is.

Firstly, every man (especially the "nice guys") should watch the movie "The Tao of Steve".
Secondly, most women are about as intelligent in their choice of mates as a drunk frat boy leaving a titty bar. They'll need to date a whole slew of jerks before they'll give up trying to change them.
My advice to the nice guys: Treat her like dirt for the first month or two(don't phone, no flowers, etc), make her think you're indifferent, that you really don't care, then gradually start showing her nice side (Hold her hand in public, introduce her to your friends, etc). This way she gets to believe that she's changing you into a nice guy, and that's what most women really want. It's their nurturing reflex.
However, save the three deadly words (I love you) for a year or later though. They all want to here those words. It's the hook in the bait.
"How do you know all of this?" you ask?...
I was a nice guy all through high school and all I got was a string of 6 month or less relationships where I got dumped.
Finnally I gave up trying to be a nice guy and went after what I wanted in a relationship.
I've been with the same girl for several years now and we're engaged to be married.
There you go.

Wow.. lotsa life lessons here. I need to jot down some of these. :D

What happened to the 'Night in Shining Armour Mr. Perfect' eh? :(

I need to learn new moves or strategies to impress and have more fun with girls. :p Being myself is boring I guess.

She'll learn... maybe.

But I just know that not all girls are like that... I mean, my boyfriend is a really really nice guy (and I think he used to think that the girls he really wanted would never want him). And he thought I was hot before we started dating. :D

Only before? ;)

There's something that's been unsaid here that really needs to be cleared up, because it is a pervasive misconception.

MEN do not NEED a WOMAN to have a FULFILLED life. And visa versa.

Society has been programming men to act inordinately on their biological instincts. Especially in countries with a heavy media presence.

Society apparently does not feel it needs to program women. Also, women respond to entirely different emotional stimuli.

Men do not want to be rejected. Women do not want to be bothered.

If you are a man, give the woman what she wants. Don't bother her.
If you're a woman, be considerate of a man's self-image.

Either way, you will live a happy and fulfilled 50-75 years on this earth. The future of the world does not hinge specifically on your procreation. If you learn to relax about it, and later decide you still wish to pursue a relationship with the opposite sex, it will be much easier to do so with perspective.

I see a lot of people here on both sides of the gender line who seem to derive a lot of satisfaction from manipulation and head-games. If you backed up and thought in terms of respect and mutuality, a lot of these issues would be blunted.

Wow.. lotsa life lessons here. I need to jot down some of these. :D

What happened to the 'Night in Shining Armour Mr. Perfect' eh? :(

I need to learn new moves or strategies to impress and have more fun with girls. :p Being myself is boring I guess.

Mr. Perfect Knight in Shining Armor could prove he was strong and confident by slaying dragons. And there are precious few of those around any more. The knights musta got them all...

The "I'm just this way, I should be myself" is a nice guy cop-out. I should know, 'cause that was me once. Certainly do not try to be someone you're not, but find a confident man within yourself. If you'r life is so crappy it shoots your confidence, change it. Learn to be responsible for yourself.

Don't be buying flowers and expensive stuff early on, because 1) she'll feel like you're trying to manipulate her into liking you and resent you for it, and 2) you separate the worthwhile ones from the gold-diggers that way.

Don't let yourself fall hopelessly in love with her on the first date. She'll sense it, and you'll stop being a challenge, i.e. you'll stop being interesting to her. You don't need to tell her you're interested in her right away. She knows.

How do you pronounce that? Does the gn sound like gn in gnarly? :(

Can't people see that different girls like different things? It's really so so simple. Some girls like the nice guy, some like the jerk, some like guys in the middle. Some like being friends beforehand, some don't. It varies for every single girl, there isn't a set type that all girls like.

Guys, you'll find someone who is right for you and who you are right for. It just takes time. But when you find each it other, it will be worth the wait.

I personally don't understand what attracts women to men at all… we're all so crudely made and ugly.

Can't people see that different girls like different things? It's really so so simple. Some girls like the nice guy, some like the jerk, some like guys in the middle. Some like being friends beforehand, some don't. It varies for every single girl, there isn't a set type that all girls like.

Guys, you'll find someone who is right for you and who you are right for. It just takes time. But when you find each it other, it will be worth the wait.

I somewhat believe in that..

But for the life of me, I can't figure out girls who would be treated like shit and still follow the guy on the grounds 'He loves me'.

I personally don't understand what attracts women to men at all… we're all so crudely made and ugly.

Dude...don't argue with it...go with it... :cool:

And yes, there are differences between women. But there are also some constants.

I somewhat believe in that..

But for the life of me, I can't figure out girls who would be treated like shit and still follow the guy on the grounds 'He loves me'.

Some people like drama and 'passion' in relationships. They find it exciting.

For me, when I've been in stuff like that, once you've got to care about someone, however much they hurt you, and you hate what they've done, it can feel impossible to hate them and you still love them. Crazy yes but it's true. Maybe it's because I felt like I needed someone, needed him, I wanted to hang onto the feeling of being in a relationship, maybe because I didn't want to hurt him, maybe because he did have many good sides too, he really did, or maybe because I'm just plain stupid.

(I know that doesn't help you that much maybe but the next bit might)

I realised how badly he treated me and realised he wasn't worth it and in the end I moved on and now I have a hell of a lot better taste, stand up for myself in relationships more and have learnt so much from it.

And all I can do is hope that all the rest of the girls out there will realise it too in time. If I can by 14, I think they can sometime or another :p

going on personal experience here (and i'm female)

bad guys are more fun than the nice guy who sends you flowers and tells you how he doesn't deserve you and all that. Women don't want a loser for a partner same as they don't want losers for friends and neither do men.

The other vital thing to bear in mind is that the only people who know exactly what's going on in a relationship are those two people involved in it. you may think he's a bad guy and she may say he is, but do you know what they talk about late at night in bed when there's no one else there? i've dated good guys and bad guys and my current relationship (of three years) is with a what i'd guess you'd call a bad guy. but he loves me, whatever fights or disagreements we have. yes he behaves badly at times (don't we all) but he always cares for me.

and i have so much more fun now than i did with all those nice guys who were wet lettuces that didn't deserve me!!!

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.

Never question these things, because they don't matter. The world is full of f*cked up people, whom ride the yellow bus of the mind.

going on personal experience here (and i'm female)

bad guys are more fun than the nice guy who sends you flowers and tells you how he doesn't deserve you and all that. Women don't want a loser for a partner same as they don't want losers for friends and neither do men.

The other vital thing to bear in mind is that the only people who know exactly what's going on in a relationship are those two people involved in it. you may think he's a bad guy and she may say he is, but do you know what they talk about late at night in bed when there's no one else there? i've dated good guys and bad guys and my current relationship (of three years) is with a what i'd guess you'd call a bad guy. but he loves me, whatever fights or disagreements we have. yes he behaves badly at times (don't we all) but he always cares for me.

and i have so much more fun now than i did with all those nice guys who were wet lettuces that didn't deserve me!!!

hmm in that case u didnt deserve them muhahahahaha :D

It's all a game. Ride the rollcoaster, b*tch!

Follow it, it will work! Dont take advice from a woman that quotes "Agathe Christie" and say I am woman hear me roar. Probably not the kind of girls your looking for. Doubt they are interested in any guy!
She has a boyfriend you f*cking idiot.


"I just can't imagine be attracted to somone I like so well".

Yeah, wtf is up with this one? How is that so unimaginable?

HI should have elaborated before. It's okay to be friends with a girl you're interested in. Just don't act like that's all you want. If you want to be with her, let her know that. Make it evident from the beginning that you ideally want to date her. Don't try to "just be friends" in an attempt to get close to her and eventually date her. There's nothing saying you can't be friends with someone you want to sleep with; indeed, a good relationship should be based on friendship. But make sure she knows you like her.
OK, so how would you "let her know that you ideally want to date her" without simply asking her out at the beginning?

Men don't distinguish between relationships with women. We want to fuck all women. There is no "sexual relationship" and there is no "non-sexual relationship" there is the "relationship where we're having sex" and there is the "relationship where I want to be having sex."
Speak for yourself.

I personally don't understand what attracts women to men at all… we're all so crudely made and ugly.
Speak for yourself.

Eutrusca is cute and funny. He is not a boobist either. :)

just masturbate and quit whining

Ok Here's my take, and i'm ready for the comeback.

Women want to marry nice guys, but date idiots. (here it comes) But by dating various idiots, it rarely makes them someone that nice guys want to, or should date.

BTW, I was branded a nice guy, and I'm married.

I still say to myself "I'll see it when I believe it, and I believe it!". Sounds pretty optimistic to me, doesn't it?
Eh, optimism isn't what you want. Here's a quote to live by:

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!"
--Terry Pratchett, The Truth

MEN do not NEED a WOMAN to have a FULFILLED life. And visa versa.

Society has been programming men to act inordinately on their biological instincts. Especially in countries with a heavy media presence.
Interesting, because all men are descended from men who had women. The truth is, that the biologically successful men are the ones who have a woman. Do not bring biology into this if you try to say that reproduction and the raising of offspring are not intrinsic parts of being a successful human organism.

but do you know what they talk about late at night in bed when there's no one else there?
I'd wager it's nothing, because she gets wasted every night at work and goes to sleep as soon as she gets home. And she works until pretty late.

just masturbate and quit whining
sage advice.

Does anyone else think that in today's western society, men are subjected to the same amount of stereotyping, held up to the same unrealistic standards, and equally oppressed as women are?

Does anyone else think that in today's western society, men are subjected to the same amount of stereotyping, held up to the same unrealistic standards, and equally oppressed as women are?

I wouldn't say equally oppressed. The stereotypes and judgements are equally bad but men rarely have the same active discrimination e.g. lower wages. But then there is the whole fathers rights thing. Hm... I'm not sure. I guess it's hard to know without experiencing both sides. I guess as a female I can always fall back on the "least you dont have periods, pregnancy and childbirth!" argument :p

Please don't ever try to call yourself a Calvinist, you can claim to be a "mainstream" Jesus loves and saves all, Christian, but never take the title of Calvinist. Your sheer pride over your past misdeeds is such that it seems to me you have not repented, indeed you boast.

Listen, I reread my post, and I did come off like I was bragging. I did not mean to sound like that. I am not saying that anything I did or was done to me was the ideal, but rather, the way it is. Almost all of my Christian friends have trouble finding people. I am just lucky that I found one, fell in love, changed my ways and got married.

But to address this really confusing post about Calvinism, I am a member of the elect, and though I am sitting here looking at my copy of Calvin's Institutes of The Christian Religion, I am not a follower of that wonderful man who liked to bunr people at the stake, Micheal Servetus anyone? I am, however, studying to become a Lutheran theologian/Pastor (Th,D.), and at his root, though misguided, Calvin considered himself a student of Luther, and good friend of Melanchthon. Just to clear that up, "saved by grace, not works, or shows of repentance, or whatnot."
Sola fide
Sola gracia
Sola Scriptura

WWJD
Amen.

Ok Here's my take, and i'm ready for the comeback.

Women want to marry nice guys, but date idiots. (here it comes) But by dating various idiots, it rarely makes them someone that nice guys want to, or should date.

BTW, I was branded a nice guy, and I'm married.
Actually, in my experience, you are right. Women aren't ALL ready to settle down and have kids. Most of them are still looking to have a good time, just like us men. Thus, they are attracted, originally, to the guy that has fun, that has all the friends, that has the reputation, and usually is an ass.

Now, eventually their priorities change, and they decide they need someone stable. Thus, they go with the nice guy that they can control.

Now, the trick is to strike a delicate balance of being both. if you are cool, funny, popular, slightly an asshole, and yet do have the capability to think about others, then you can score millions of bonus points from the slightest acts of thoughtfulness. Thus, you can not only date the hot, cool chick, but maybe even marry her. Of course, thats assuming you really want to marry a woman that will immediately be sought by every unattached male in your hemisphere. But hey, it goes with the territory.

By the way, my remarks here also explain why married men have such an appeal to you women. You see them as being stable, unconsciously, and you pursue them as a viable mate.

funny this is nowhere near as popular as the "boobs" thread!

Listen, I reread my post, and I did come off like I was bragging. I did not mean to sound like that. I am not saying that anything I did or was done to me was the ideal, but rather, the way it is. Almost all of my Christian friends have trouble finding people. I am just lucky that I found one, fell in love, changed my ways and got married.

But to address this really confusing post about Calvinism, I am a member of the elect, and though I am sitting here looking at my copy of Calvin's Institutes of The Christian Religion, I am not a follower of that wonderful man who liked to bunr people at the stake, Micheal Servetus anyone? I am, however, studying to become a Lutheran theologian/Pastor (Th,D.), and at his root, though misguided, Calvin considered himself a student of Luther, and good friend of Melanchthon. Just to clear that up, "saved by grace, not works, or shows of repentance, or whatnot."
Sola fide
Sola gracia
Sola Scriptura

WWJD
Amen.


That whole burning people was taken out of context, Calvin tried to talk the authorities out of burning Servetus, but since even the Catholics wanted him dead (and indeed there was a catholic order out for his head), the folks had no real choice.

Women want to marry nice guys, but date idiots. (here it comes) But by dating various idiots, it rarely makes them someone that nice guys want to, or should date.



That's exactly how I feel on the topic, as I said to Kahta, "When I buy a gun, I only ever buy a new gun, I don't want a gun that's all gunked up, scratched up, is basically a beaten up used police trade-in that nobody else wants."

Same to, I said about a car, "When I go to get, I don't get something that's been ridden so hard it's practically fallen apart, the less use the better, ideally none."

Does anyone else think that in today's western society, men are subjected to the same amount of stereotyping, held up to the same unrealistic standards, and equally oppressed as women are?


I think the worst thing for Western man is that Western woman is so screwed up and this probably goes back to poor parenting.

Another problem for Western man, is that most Western men are reprobate! So they don't deserve better women, they don't deserve women who keep the laws of God and are obedient unto them, and subjugate themselves unto them, Wester man deserves nothing! Nothing!

Calamity, is all they deserve, and God is mocking their calamity!

You mock God, and think God won't mock you? How arrogant to believe man can even raise a fist against His maker, unless the maker willed it in His plan.

Basically, both Western man and Western woman, are mostly reprobate and so it's no wonder their marriage end in divorce, it's not any wonder that they're at each others throats. God hates the world, and the West is part of the world that He hates.

Same to, I said about a car, "When I go to get, I don't get something that's been ridden so hard it's practically fallen apart, the less use the better, ideally none."
Nothing wrong with your new "car" having some "mileage", is there now? ;)

Basically, both Western man and Western woman, are mostly reprobate and so it's no wonder their marriage end in divorce, it's not any wonder that they're at each others throats. God hates the world, and the West is part of the world that He hates.
You're one of those "9/11 = gift from God" people, aren't you?

Nothing wrong with your new "car" having some "mileage", is there now? ;)


You're one of those "9/11 = gift from God" people, aren't you?




Yes there is, although it can be tolerated in some circumstances, but new=great and less miles=better, more miles=blah.

See, basically, as a virgin myself, I'm not sure I could respect a woman who had "Been around the block" so to speak. And the person I'd be with, I could never be with somebody I couldn't respect, we'd both deserve better than that, it would just be arguments and resentment.

By that I mean somebody who is disgustingly promiscuous. There are exceptions to the virgin rule though, but I'd have to take that on a case by case basis.

Yes there is, although it can be tolerated in some circumstances, but new=great and less miles=better, more miles=blah.

See, basically, as a virgin myself, I'm not sure I could respect a woman who had "Been around the block" so to speak. And the person I'd be with, I could never be with somebody I couldn't respect, we'd both deserve better than that, it would just be arguments and resentment.

By that I mean somebody who is disgustingly promiscuous. There are exceptions to the virgin rule though, but I'd have to take that on a case by case basis.
Why couldnt you respect a women who had 'been around the block' so to speak. Why would you spend your time wondering what someone else had done in bed (or elsewhere) with someone else. Unless you are a voyuer, what's the point in that?

Why is being promiscuous disgusting?

Why is being promiscuous disgusting?


Because that woman could have STD's, and it turns sex into a casual thing, which it isn't.

Why couldnt you respect a women who had 'been around the block' so to speak. Why would you spend your time wondering what someone else had done in bed (or elsewhere) with someone else. Unless you are a voyuer, what's the point in that?

Why is being promiscuous disgusting?


Why are you not disgusted? Why can't I be disgusted if I want to be disgusted?

You liberals are the "To each his own type." Why then can't I react in a manner that I want to react in and be disgusted. I don't like the idea that sex can be a casual thing and mean nothing. I don't want meaningless lustful sex, I want more than that. Indeed if I had to pick between sex and just an emotional relationship, I'd go for the latter.

Although both combined, is the ideal, most today, sadly, go for the first option, just sex. And that sickens and disgusts me.

In an ideal world you don't want to know what your partner's history is...unless they're a virgin and might need a little help the first timee...bt that's something that's offered by them. Otherwise it shouldn't matter.
But that's an ideal world, and such things don't exist...

I agree with Randomea. This takes me back to a situation where Fin-e said he'd take me to Tink's wedding and then I found he paid her to... Anyway, no one wants to go to a wedding with a guy whose jiz was on the bride's mouth. When you're with a person you want to be able to walk down the street without having visuals of your partner 'being' with the people you're passing by.

In an ideal world you don't want to know what your partner's history is...unless they're a virgin and might need a little help the first timee...bt that's something that's offered by them. Otherwise it shouldn't matter.
But that's an ideal world, and such things don't exist...


In an ideal world, everybody would be a virgin until their wedding night. This isn't an ideal world.


In an ideal world, AIDs and Syphilis wouldn't even exist. All I can say is this, "Fine, don't ask, don't make your partner's sexual history an issue, when you get something, you can crawl into a free clinic." Sorry if that sounded offensive, it wasn't meant as such, it's meant to shock you into realizing the seriousness of the situation.

Sex isn't a game, it could kill you (HIV) and at worst, it could cost you your immortal soul.

Sex is really meant for inside of marriage, although if you have sex with an unmarried and unengaged woman, I think the bible commands you have to marry her or else it won't bode well for you with God.



I guess my ideal world is different from your ideal world.

I think you're missing her point, Voteeraly. She was answering the question before her, when someone asked why being promiscuous is wrong.

In an ideal world, everybody would be a virgin until their wedding night. This isn't an ideal world.


In an ideal world, AIDs and Syphilis wouldn't even exist. All I can say is this, "Fine, don't ask, don't make your partner's sexual history an issue, when you get something, you can crawl into a free clinic." Sorry if that sounded offensive, it wasn't meant as such, it's meant to shock you into realizing the seriousness of the situation.

Sex isn't a game, it could kill you (HIV) and at worst, it could cost you your immortal soul.

Sex is really meant for inside of marriage, although if you have sex with an unmarried and unengaged woman, I think the bible commands you have to marry her or else it won't bode well for you with God.



I guess my ideal world is different from your ideal world.

In an ideal world your God wouldn't send someone to hell for something as natural as sex.

It is a shame that you are so afraid of sex, though. It might loosen you up.

Yeah, Vitto! :)

In an ideal world your God wouldn't send someone to hell for something as natural as sex.

It is a shame that you are so afraid of sex, though. It might loosen you up.


God will damn to hell any who commit unacceptable sexual practices (adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, etc)

I am not afraid of anything, for I walk the path God has told His Elect to walk. I am totally confident that I am going to heaven, thus I could go my entire life without sex and it would mean nothing to me.

Of course I won't do that, since we are commanded to "Be fruitful and multiply" and the bible sanctions sex, inside of marriage, as a wonderful and indeed holy, thing. "What God hath put together, let no man put asunder." Marriage is a holy union and procreation is a part of that union.

I will only ever have sex inside of marriage, and no amount of temptresses and seducers will change that.

I have two theories, neither of which address adult relationships, but they're the best I've got:

1) From the perspective of often being rejected by "nice guys": I think most guys switch from "so incredibly nice" to "lovable jackass" when they go through puberty. I say this because all the "lovable jackasses" I have liked were already taken, and the much more numerous "so incredibly nice" guys I've liked were mainly not interested in dating yet. So eventually we, at least as teenagers, figure we'd better quit chasing guys who aren't mature enough yet and just deal with the jackassed habits they develop and focus on the "lovable" part.

2) From the perspective of now being first girlfriend to a "nice guy": The nice guy, since he is nice, isn't so worried about his appearance and thinks he can get by socially on personality. That works for friends, but since the dawn of dating happens when shallow 7th grade bitches care for nothing more than a hot body, they lose out on their first opportunities. By the time girls start looking for stuff that matters, a little experience is on the list, and so whomever (however jerky) tried and succeeded at being sexy in middle school has the advantage. The nice guys don't know what not to do, so they get hosed again.


As I said, both of these only explain teen relationships, but that's all I can comment on. I guess after a behavioral pattern is established it would continue into adulthood. Or whatever, I don't really know.

Although both combined, is the ideal, most today, sadly, go for the first option, just sex.
Gee, you love making sweeping negative generalisations don't you?
And just how do you know what most people do? Have you spoken to most people?

God will damn to hell any who commit unacceptable sexual practices (adultery, homosexuality, bestiality, etc)

I am not afraid of anything, for I walk the path God has told His Elect to walk. I am totally confident that I am going to heaven, thus I could go my entire life without sex and it would mean nothing to me.

Of course I won't do that, since we are commanded to "Be fruitful and multiply" and the bible sanctions sex, inside of marriage, as a wonderful and indeed holy, thing. "What God hath put together, let no man put asunder." Marriage is a holy union and procreation is a part of that union.

I will only ever have sex inside of marriage, and no amount of temptresses and seducers will change that.

Good for you, :)

I on the other hand am glad I didn't decide to "save myself for marriage". Yay for sex outside of marriage! I'm glad that I will have been able to experience sex with more then one person before I do get married.

And darn, I guess I'm damned to hell because I've been with both women and men. Silly me.

Number 2 is a very good point.

Gee, you love making sweeping negative generalisations don't you?
And just how do you know what most people do? Have you spoken to most people?



Because, people admit their sin in surveys and polls. A recent poll in the USA shows 40% of teenage girls aren't virgins after age 16. And the number jumps to nearly 80% by age 20.

I'm sure everyone here knows someone here who is a "nice guy", and complains that girls never like them. I'm sure there are plenty of people like that here. Now, I have a girlfriend, but there's a girl that I've had a thing for for quite a while. But enough about my mild polyamory, I digress. The thing is, her boyfriend is a total ass. They have been together for around a year, yet have never gotten along well and fight nearly every week. My question is, why does she like him? I just can not get my mind around why she wants to be with such a jerk. And don't think this just applies to this situation, I'm sure there are countless examples pretty much identicle to this one.
How much do you want to bet that he doesn't act like an insecure and nervous little boy around her?

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....
How about just not acting insecure and needy? ;)

I'm somewhat cautious of posting this, simply because some may misconstrue this as a sweeping generalisation that applies to all women. It isn't, but it can sometimes explain the particular behaviour in question.

There are some women who go after the "asshole" in order to tame/change him. I've known of two cases where a woman has married a guy because she thought it would stop him cheating... go figure...

I'd also hazard a guess that some may go for that sort of guy because they (either consciously or subconsciously) feel that they deserve the mistreatment. Same thing goes for guys who get involved with "bitches" as well.

Just keep in mind that what makes one person tick (psychologically speaking) is different to the next.
Read the book "Bad Boys", it pretty partially confirms what you just described. Women chase bad boys partially because they want to save them.

Because, people admit their sin in surveys and polls. A recent poll in the USA shows 40% of teenage girls aren't virgins after age 16. And the number jumps to nearly 80% by age 20.
A] That doesn't mean it's "just about sex." They could be in a meaningful relationship. I mean, I lost my virginity at 18, but we're still together two years on with plans to get married.
B] I notice that you focus on women a lot more than on men getting laid. Why's that? *raises eyebrow*

A] That doesn't mean it's "just about sex." They could be in a meaningful relationship. I mean, I lost my virginity at 18, but we're still together two years on with plans to get married.
B] I notice that you focus on women a lot more than on men getting laid. Why's that? *raises eyebrow*


Most men are pigs and are going to do it anyway, we have to work with women since they can probably be helped along the path to appropriate behavior easier than men can. Men will need to be forced, by a strong theocratic government, to behave in a proper manner.

But forget not that woman is indeed a transgressor as sayeth the apostles, for woman was deceived by the devil in the garden, and so then did she herself become a deceiver.

Wow, there's lots of great info in here.

Actually, she probably does, and doesn't want to deal with it. If I sense a guy is going to crumble if I don't date him, I'm - get this - not going to date him. Because if he's going to crumble over not getting a positive reply *now*, I don't want to see how he's going to react the first time I have to say "No, I can't go out tonight, I'm busy" when we're dating. Guys who can't accept 'no' as an answer at the start usually can't handle 'no' as an answer further into the relationship.

By saying something like "I just want to be friends," you're trying to keep things out of a romantic atmosphere because you're not attracted to him, don't want to encourage him, but don't want to crush him entirely either. Is that about it?

I agree with whoever said "If you want to ask her out, ask her out. Once you're her friend, she most likely won't want to date you". I would never go out with a guy who was my friend first. Mainly because I'd be suspicious of his motives (if I guy makes friends with me in the hopes of getting laid, and I find out, that's a complete end to all contact right there).

So yes. If you're after girls like me (because I can only be sure that this applies to me, after all), DON'T be her friend first (flirting is fine), and if you won't be able to take no as an answer, you really shouldn't be asking in the first place.

You take it as a form of manipulation then?

And keep in mind that if you 'change' yourself to being an arsehole just to get girls... well, that's really pathetic, because it means they don't even like YOU, they just like your ridiculous persona. If you're after sex that bad, it's easier just to find the segment of the female population that just wants flings and fuckbuddies.

You, as a woman, can smell someone not being true to who they really are and are immediately turned off. Acting like something one isn't is an act of insecurity and neediness, which is a turn-off to most women. It is also a form of manipulation. Basically,the whole thing is saying, "I don't deserve you the way I am, so I'm going to try to be someone else to trick you into sleeping with me." Does that sound about right?

If you're attracted to somebody, and you enjoy that person's company, and you feel that is reciprocated, make your move already. Being a "nice guy" has nothing to do with it. Just remember that spinelessness is not an attractive quality.
DAMN that was a beautiful post! Short, sharp and beautiful. :cool:

Way to not address my point about it not just being about sex.


Most men are pigs and are going to do it anyway, we have to work with women since they can probably be helped along the path to appropriate behavior easier than men can. Men will need to be forced, by a strong theocratic government, to behave in a proper manner.
Again with the "most". Now I know a lot of men, and most of them are decent guys. Have you spoken to most guys? And who are most uys having sex with, a handful of "whores," as I'm sure you'd like to call them? Oh, and women are obviously more weak-willed right? That seems to be your implication.
And you intend to force people how to behave? A theocracy? Even if these people are going to hell? Why should you give a shit o Elected One?

But forget not that woman is indeed a transgressor as sayeth the apostles, for woman was deceived by the devil in the garden, and so then did she herself become a deceiver.

Woot, more pseudo-biblical language. Making ourselves feel special again, are we?

Well, there are lines. See, I don't mean 'someone I've never had contact with before' (because that's also creepy). I mean 'someone I've talked to occasionally, seen in class or what not, and flirted with a whole bunch'.

I don't date friends because both times I have, it turned out the SOLE reason they became friends with me was because they were hoping to go out with me. And I'm sorry, but that sort of thing just absolutely sickens me. If a guy wants to go out with me, he should bloody well ask me out. Anything else is just slimy manipulation as far as I'm concerned.
OK, you're making a whole lot of really good and profound posts. I'm willing to bet that you're a pretty good looking woman that has dealt with a lot of manipulative guys. Am I right?

Way to not address my point about it not just being about sex.


Again with the "most". Now I know a lot of men, and most of them are decent guys. Have you spoken to most guys? And who are most uys having sex with, a handful of "whores," as I'm sure you'd like to call them? Oh, and women are obviously more weak-willed right? That seems to be your implication.
And you intend to force people how to behave? A theocracy? Even if these people are going to hell? Why should you give a shit o Elected One?



Woot, more pseudo-biblical language. Making ourselves feel special again, are we?


God will surely destroy the world if we even allow a hint of sin to remain, but it is too late to do anything about it. It is predestianted that the world shall soon come to an end.



Matthew 24:37-44

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.



Luke 17:26-32

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

Remember Lot's wife.



What were the days of Noah and Lot famous for? Rampant homosexuality, bestiality, fornication, sin, adultery, and a whole host of perversions. Indeed in the days of Noah, God was so disgusted with creation that He destroyed the world, the entire world, except for 8 souls whom He had predestinated to be saved.



Genesis 6:5-8

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

God will surely destroy the world if we even allow a hint of sin to remain, but it is too late to do anything about it. It is predestianted that the world shall soon come to an end.

So why bother?

And don't bother with Bible verses, I didn't read them.

And thanks again for not addressing my points.

VoteEarly, enough with the bible-thumping. :(

Well, perhaps you should be less suspicious. If you really know a guy as a friend, you should be able to tell.
Beautiful women deal with guys that try to manipulate them into dates by acting like they want to be their friends ALL THE TIME. Generally speaking, when a man is talking to a woman, usually what he's REALLY saying is "Want some d*ck?" Most women know this and don't really even object. It's when men are dishonest about it that there's an issue. Honesty is one of the first steps towards creating attraction.

The next step is creatine attraction. Women NEED to feel attraction for a man in order to take a romantic step. Women will not feel attraction for someone who kisses their ass, acts insecure and does not generate an emotional response. Why do you think women always say things like "I love men that make me laugh"? Men who are relaxed enough to treat them like they're one of their buddies. This is NOT the same as being the nice guy friend, because nice guy friends don't have the balls to tease, make risky jokes without being completely uncomfortable and spending 5 minutes appologizing, and just generally relaxing and having a good time.

*laughs*

It's opposite with me. I'm attracted to nice guys...always. If they're nice to me, I reciprocate in some way, whether friendship or love. If a guy is rude, whether its just simple teasing or outright meanness, I am turned off. I do not look at the fact that teasing and harrassment could possibly be a euphemism for interest. I just don't approve of that. I'll take kindness and respect any day of the week.

My soul mate was originally one of the nicest friends, (heck, my best friend) I had. That lovely quality was only intesified when we we mutually agreed to be with each other. He's still...so nice.

-Asylum Nova

i'm no good with relationships, see.
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I don't now why some guys think women are attracted to jerks. I'm sure as hell not. Any woman who's attracted to men who treat her badly is in need of psychiatric help. A guy that treats me like crap is gone immediately. Assholes need not apply.
That said, I want somebody who will stand up for himself. I've got a fairly forceful personality and "yes men" do not get my respect. If someones going to let me walk all over him, I tend to do it. I don't mean to be cruel, but I just can't resist getting my way.
Just find that place between wimp and asshole.

One of the great guy-myths about women, is that "women don't like nice guys and they only like jerks". Women like nice guys. They prefer nice guys to jerks. However, they are hard-wired to be attracted to guys who are in control, confident and don't let others walk over them. Jerks trigger this sort of attraction. Most men who think of themselves as "nice guys", however, are the sort of spineless jellyfish who still need mommy to take care of them. If you can the sort of guy that has his situation under control, who is confident, who does not let a woman walk all over you, who can tease them every once in a while (without going overboard and veering into "insult" territory) and still be a nice a decent guy, you'll really be attracting the ladies.
I can tease a girl 24/7. I can bust her balls all day every day and keep the attraction going and even kick it up a level. It's all a matter of how you carry yourself. If you believe you can get away with it, you will. If you are unsure as to whether you will get away with it, you won't. Women can smell insecurity and confidence a mile away.

I can tease a girl 24/7. I can bust her balls all day every day and keep the attraction going and even kick it up a level.

hehe, yup. My bf teases me heaps. I tease him back. We pretend to be annpyed. Then we get to make up. :p
Or else it just degenerates into a tickle fight, which really isn't fair because he's bigger, stronger and less ticklish than me. :(

*notes that VE is silent on the matter of actually addressing my post*

True true. I'm quite curious about that myself.

I went out with a girl, and she says I was too nice and too caring, that I would be someone she would like to marry, but now that we're still young she doesn't want to get to involve with me. WTF!!!!!??!??!?!?! :( :(
In other words, you'll make a wonderful provider for her children, but she has no sexual attraction for you. She'll get herself pregnant by the guy she's attracted to and ask you to pay for their up bringing. That happens to approximately 10% of all men. Think about that for a second, approximately 10% of the people in the world's father is not the person they believe him to be. If you keep being a "nice guy", you might end up being one of those guys raising someone else's children and not even know it.

Ok, stud here the truth, hard and ugly.
I used to be a real asshole, but now I am a nice Christian boy that has been married for three years. My wife married the bad boy. I treated women very, very badly. I slept with them just for sport and never called, did degrading things to them (with their complete permission of course) in bedrooms at parties, then told everyone about it while they were still there. I literally slept with tons of women, all the time. And they flocked to me wherever I went. Now, I was fairly popular around a very "druggie/partier" segment of highschool, and was the only person in Grade 9 with my own apartment (left my house because of abuse issues, long story) and had every opprotunity to be in a place conducive to sex. And man, did I ever get a lot. I mean a lot.

And here is the thing, the women I teated badly, no matter how bad, they came back for more, telling me they loved me all the time. The ones that wanted me the most though, and this is a little telling, were the ones that were warned about me by their friends. Even my wife falls into that category. She still talks about how she always tried to date really nice boys, and I just asked her why she switched, firstly, she said they didn't have confidence, she had to spend a lot of time reassuring them when they were saying "I suck, I don't deserve you, I'm pathetic!" After awhile, she wanted to say, "You know, you're right, you do suck!"
And, on the night that she met me, my roomate, her friend, warned her saying that I was going to use her and lose her. She told me about it, and I said, "yeah, I probably will."
She asked me why she should be with me and I said, "You shouldn't, but you can't help yourself!"
We've been together for five years now.
So, it is all about confidence in her eyes, I walked into a room like I owned it, no matter where we went. And I was willing to break heads for her.
I think it also had to do with other women liking me, women eat that stuff up, nothing makes you attractive like other women wanting you.
To end, she dated nice boys, now she is with a good man.

WWJD
Amen.
At the beginning, I thought you were full of it. How many losers on the internet start off by bragging how they're chick magnets? By the end, I'm pretty well convinced that you know what you're talking about. You seem like you know the score by what you communicated. You made so many great key points, that I could write pages and pages of material covering it all.

I bet that even though you're not an a-hole anymore, you still use many of your old traits successfully, such as the ability to carry yourself with confidence. I'll bet that your wife hasn't lost any attraction for you either, unless you went to the other extreme and turned into a complete girly man. Somehow I doubt it though. ;) :cool:

Translation "You're too much of a spineless wimp" or something equally along that line. The one only and excuse you should ever believe from a woman is "I'm dating someone else" and *only* believe that if you can verify that fact independently of her/one of her female friends. Otherwise every "soft" breakup/rejection is just a lie trying to save your feelings but results in nothing other than confusion.
That is a woman testing a man's composure. Are you going to back down and appologize? Are you going to turn into a complete girly man? Are you going to stand your ground? Generally, how are you going to react?

I doubt I will....
With that attitude, you're right.

Well Pencilsama. I'm 20 as well.. And GF-less at the moment.

-------------------------------------------------------------



Well, she said I reminded her of her Dad.. Eek.. :p

Alright! Time to beat her senseless to show I'm not a WIMP! Muahahah

J/k.. I asked her best friend, she says she's not dating someone else at the moment, but she (the friend says) that I'm too straight and damn boring!! :( plus we're still friends in the same group of friends.

I don't do what other guys are mostly doing, like going out clubbing and having fun. To me thats not fun its expensive and tiring. The only good part about it, is that I tend to be the driver and get to drive some of my friends cars home (since their all pissed drunk)

I'm mostly with my dad and his friends at the golfee's (which i'm still piss poor) talking business, politics and other rubbish. Either than that, I'm out with guyfriends cybercafe or at home reading or chatting with you guys. And yeah.. university.

I think I should get a boring girlfriend who loves reading. Easier to handle :D

<Discontinuing Hijacking of Thread>
Then find a way to inject some fun into your life. Girls like being around people who are having fun.

Wow.. lotsa life lessons here. I need to jot down some of these. :D

What happened to the 'Night in Shining Armour Mr. Perfect' eh? :(

I need to learn new moves or strategies to impress and have more fun with girls. :p Being myself is boring I guess.
The Knight in Shining Armor Mr. Perfect exists, just not outwardly in the way you think he does. Men communicate in a very direct manner. We don't do a whole lot of interpretation or anything, we tend to say precisely what we mean. Women look at EVERYTHING about a person and asks herself "what does that REALLY mean?" When you learn how to communicate on that other level, you will begin pushing a woman's buttons and often not even realize you're doing it. You have to be deliberate about it at first, but eventually it becomes second nature.

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Mr. Perfect Knight in Shining Armor could prove he was strong and confident by slaying dragons. And there are precious few of those around any more. The knights musta got them all...

The "I'm just this way, I should be myself" is a nice guy cop-out. I should know, 'cause that was me once. Certainly do not try to be someone you're not, but find a confident man within yourself. If you'r life is so crappy it shoots your confidence, change it. Learn to be responsible for yourself.

Don't be buying flowers and expensive stuff early on, because 1) she'll feel like you're trying to manipulate her into liking you and resent you for it, and 2) you separate the worthwhile ones from the gold-diggers that way.

Don't let yourself fall hopelessly in love with her on the first date. She'll sense it, and you'll stop being a challenge, i.e. you'll stop being interesting to her. You don't need to tell her you're interested in her right away. She knows.
Very well said!

Its pure genetics I think. Women are attracted to the Alpha male by habit. I played the nice guy thing for awhile. All it got me is "your such a good friend". Last thing I wanted to hear. So I went with acting somewhat an asshole. Not overdoing it. Totally turned around my dating life. So I stuck with it. Has worked for me till I got married. I married a babe btw. Trick is to know when to be an ass. Also when to be nice and cool. You master that and people will refer to you as "the man", "lucky guy" and ive heard this one "pussy pig". Hehe good hunting....

What's sad is that's how my fiance acts. I love him to death, and he's only an asshole when it suits him -- ie never toward me ^_^

Can't people see that different girls like different things? It's really so so simple. Some girls like the nice guy, some like the jerk, some like guys in the middle. Some like being friends beforehand, some don't. It varies for every single girl, there isn't a set type that all girls like.

Guys, you'll find someone who is right for you and who you are right for. It just takes time. But when you find each it other, it will be worth the wait.
Women are wired up with different instincts? Generally speaking, what works for one woman will work for most all women. If you get a hold of a woman with a low self worth, you'll turn her on, but at the same time remind her of her low personal value. In which case, it's better that she not be dated, because she will only drag you down.

Women are wired up with different instincts? Generally speaking, what works for one woman will work for most all women. If you get a hold of a woman with a low self worth, you'll turn her on, but at the same time remind her of her low personal value. In which case, it's better that she not be dated, because she will only drag you down.


*glare* We ARE all wired differently. oi...

OK, so how would you "let her know that you ideally want to date her" without simply asking her out at the beginning?
Flirt and have fun with her. If you act like a needy girly man from the beginning, you are instantly catalogued as "possible friend and nothing else." If you relax, have fun and flirt a bit, you are catalogued as "maybe, let's see what happens." After that, she will then begin testing you to see if you are a sissy or a man. If you fail her tests, you will become "friends only". If you pass the tests, you will generate attraction and possibly wet panties. ;) :cool:

Listen, I reread my post, and I did come off like I was bragging. I did not mean to sound like that.
I didn't think you were coming across as bragging at all. I thought you were plainly telling it like it is. I see nothing wrong with that. I would fault you if you held back and didn't share the full extent of you experiences.

The individual who questioned your character initially is hardly a good judge of character himself and has no place judging other people's character's, IMHO. You just keep doing what you do and don't let others disuade you. As long as you keep your ego in check, you'll do fine looking out for yourself. :cool:

I agree with Randomea. This takes me back to a situation where Fin-e said he'd take me to Tink's wedding and then I found he paid her to... Anyway, no one wants to go to a wedding with a guy whose jiz was on the bride's mouth. When you're with a person you want to be able to walk down the street without having visuals of your partner 'being' with the people you're passing by.
That's your hang up, not mine. I know other people jizzzed on my wife's mouth before I knew her. So what?

Sorry, Vynnland, but the only type woman that would put up with that crap already has low self worth. If you were the last man on earth I'd marry my vibrator.

Good for you, :)

I on the other hand am glad I didn't decide to "save myself for marriage". Yay for sex outside of marriage! I'm glad that I will have been able to experience sex with more then one person before I do get married.

And darn, I guess I'm damned to hell because I've been with both women and men. Silly me.
A woman that admits to her bisexual tendancies. I applaud your honesty. You're my kind of chick. ;)

Unfortunatley, our virgin Calvinist friend will never know the incredible feeling of being in a 3-some. Whatever, more for me. :cool:

VoteEarly, enough with the bible-thumping. :(
Ignore lists are a beautiful thing. :cool:

hehe, yup. My bf teases me heaps. I tease him back. We pretend to be annpyed. Then we get to make up. :p
Or else it just degenerates into a tickle fight, which really isn't fair because he's bigger, stronger and less ticklish than me. :(

*notes that VE is silent on the matter of actually addressing my post*
Absolutely, women like having fun. Having fun generates emotions and endorphines, which in turn generates attraction. The things we do to each other as kids carry over into our adulthood. We still throw snowballs, snap the bras and tickle fight the ones we like.

Let me ask you a question: Does it turn your crank a bit when a guy calls you a brat? Of course, you respond by calling him a jerk, but you don't really mean it in a mean way either. Am I right? ;)

In all honesty i get the look(i hope its the look otherwise its just total revultion ;) ) but im too scared to do anything about it. :(

*glare* We ARE all wired differently. oi...
As far as personal preferences go, sure. However, as far as deeply ingrained instincts go, we're all pretty much the same. Animals all have their "mating dance" that they go through. We have one too. Men who know how the dance goes are the "luck guys", those who don't are the "unlucky guys". Certain behaviors elicit certain reactions that are beyond our control. Do you agree or disagree with that last sentence? Why or why not?

Sorry, Vynnland, but the only type woman that would put up with that crap already has low self worth. If you were the last man on earth I'd marry my vibrator.
Are you honestly telling me that you don't enjoy good natured teasing? I don't believe that. I think that like most every other woman on the planet, you like to have fun, and one of the things we as humans do to have fun with each other is to tease each other.

Edit: BTW, you would be surprised. It is the women with low self esteem who don't like my behavior. It is the women with high self esteem who enjoy my behavior and tease me back. That's when things get fun! :cool:

I'm finally caught up! Sorry for the million posts in a row everybody, but this is a subject that I've spent quite a bit of time studying and I really enjoy discussing it. :)

Sorry, Vynnland, but the only type woman that would put up with that crap already has low self worth. If you were the last man on earth I'd marry my vibrator.
What about me?! :D :D :D

(sorry. couldn't resist :D ;) )

In all honesty i get the look(i hope its the look otherwise its just total revultion ;) ) but im too scared to do anything about it. :(
Why are you scared? Are you afraid you'll be shot down? Imagine your absolute worst case scenario. write it down and have a friend help you act it out. Once you face that worst case scenario, you'll find that it's not as scary as you thought and that if you take the right frame of mind, it is actually quite easy to just laugh it off. That's something that takes most women by surprise too. If they react to you badly and you openly point at them and laugh, it confuses them. Their reaction was supposed to shake you up, but if you aren't shaken, kept your composure, it'll usually intrigues them and they'll want to get to know you as a result.

There are just some women who are constantly approached and have to act like bitches just as a time management tool. When you laugh at their bitchiness, it shows that you're confident and emotionally in control of yourself. Don't laugh like a mad scientist or something, laugh the way you do when you find something kind of funny and absurd at the same time. I treat women's test like they're cute and a little even fun. They are usually intrigued that I didn't turn into either an a-hole or a spineless sissy.

Try it, play out the worst scenario with your friend and practice laughing it off.

Are you honestly telling me that you don't enjoy good natured teasing? I don't believe that. I think that like most every other woman on the planet, you like to have fun, and one of the things we as humans do to have fun with each other is to tease each other.

Good natured teasing is okay. I don't even care if I get called a bitch. I worked hard for that name. But I will not put up with any attempt to dominate me. I causes a violent knee-jerk reaction with me. It totally sends me over the edge.

What about me?! :D :D :D

(sorry. couldn't resist :D ;) )
You're certainly near the top. But I would throw you over for Goran Visnisc. Sorry. :fluffle:

Good natured teasing is okay. I don't even care if I get called a bitch. I worked hard for that name. But I will not put up with any attempt to dominate me. I causes a violent knee-jerk reaction with me. It totally sends me over the edge.
That's what I'm talking about. Anyone who acts like a rude asshole is someone I don't want to deal with and I don't think anyone should. I guess I just assumed you knew what I meant by teasing and "busting balls".

Now then, how about some make up fluffles baby? You can still bring the previously mentioned vibrator if you like. ;)

Why are you scared? Are you afraid you'll be shot down?Yes
Imagine your absolute worst case scenario. write it down and have a friend help you act it out. Once you face that worst case scenario, you'll find that it's not as scary as you thought and that if you take the right frame of mind, it is actually quite easy to just laugh it off. That's something that takes most women by surprise too. If they react to you badly and you openly point at them and laugh, it confuses them. Their reaction was supposed to shake you up, but if you aren't shaken, kept your composure, it'll usually intrigues them and they'll want to get to know you as a result.Alas my spirit is weak.

There are just some women who are constantly approached and have to act like bitches just as a time management tool. When you laugh at their bitchiness, it shows that you're confident and emotionally in control of yourself. Don't laugh like a mad scientist or something, laugh the way you do when you find something kind of funny and absurd at the same time. I treat women's test like they're cute and a little even fun. They are usually intrigued that I didn't turn into either an a-hole or a spineless sissy.

Try it, play out the worst scenario with your friend and practice laughing it off.
ill have to get a friend first.LOL

Shock Horror TPE ive got competition for the affection of Aerou from Vittos Ordination(sp) :( -It dosent look good.

That's what I'm talking about. Anyone who acts like a rude asshole is someone I don't want to deal with and I don't think anyone should. I guess I just assumed you knew what I meant by teasing and "busting balls".

Now then, how about some make up fluffles baby? You can still bring the previously mentioned vibrator if you like. ;)

Asshole :fluffle: If I bring the vibrator, do I get to decide where it gets put? ;)

This actually got me thinking about what i was thinking about at work today.

if one asks a girl out and they say no how long should you wait to ask a different girl out?

Shock Horror TPE ive got competition for the affection of Aerou from Vittos Ordination(sp) :( -It dosent look good.
Screw competition. If you have to compete for a girl, then she isnt The One. That's my philosophy. If I have to fight/compete with a guy for a girl, I just drop it and go away, leaving the other guy to have her. I'm not gonna waste my energy on useless competition, and neither should you.

Asshole :fluffle: If I bring the vibrator, do I get to decide where it gets put? ;)
i didnt realise you were Polish. :p

Screw competition. If you have to compete for a girl, then she isnt The One. That's my philosophy. If I have to fight/compete with a guy for a girl, I just drop it and go away, leaving the other guy to have her. I'm not gonna waste my energy on useless competition, and neither should you.
Thats what i thought.
Plus i know who id chose.

But i think shes worth fighting for.
*Breaks out the Tiaha*

Some people like the drama !

Thats what i thought.
Plus i know who id chose.

But i think shes worth fighting for.
*Breaks out the Tiaha*
You're making a BIIIIIIIIIG mistake, pal. Don't say I didn't warn you.

i didnt realise you were Polish. :p

Very funny :p

Very funny :p
Ah so you saw that thread.He HE He HE

Okay, where'd everybody go? Just about the time I really get going everybody decides to go to bed. :gundge:

Okay, where'd everybody go? Just about the time I really get going everybody decides to go to bed. :gundge:
i'm still here. what are we talking about?

Okay, where'd everybody go? Just about the time I really get going everybody decides to go to bed. :gundge:
I'm also still here.

Just anything. I was trying to post earlier tonight but someone kept IMing me. He's someone from NS, but he's considered a little out there. He is nicer one on one, but still a little preachy. Not that I object to talking to him, but he took up my prime posting hours.

Okay, where'd everybody go? Just about the time I really get going everybody decides to go to bed. :gundge:
As am i.

Just anything. I was trying to post earlier tonight but someone kept IMing me. He's someone from NS, but he's considered a little out there. He is nicer one on one, but still a little preachy. Not that I object to talking to him, but he took up my prime posting hours.
A little out there? Maybe I can knock sense into him? *cracks knuckles* :D

Just anything. I was trying to post earlier tonight but someone kept IMing me. He's someone from NS, but he's considered a little out there. He is nicer one on one, but still a little preachy. Not that I object to talking to him, but he took up my prime posting hours.
it's jesussaves, isn't it? you can tell me.
anyway, was the nice guy for a while, until i realized that i was stuck there because of my own failures to move myself. so i became a shameless flirt, which seemed to work pretty well.

Just anything. I was trying to post earlier tonight but someone kept IMing me. He's someone from NS, but he's considered a little out there. He is nicer one on one, but still a little preachy. Not that I object to talking to him, but he took up my prime posting hours.
Jesusaves?

it's jesussaves, isn't it? you can tell me.
anyway, was the nice guy for a while, until i realized that i was stuck there because of my own failures to move myself. so i became a shameless flirt, which seemed to work pretty well.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/harlesburg/Tiaha.jpg
Bastard

A little out there? Maybe I can knock sense into him? *cracks knuckles* :D

I don't think so. Just think of the preachiest people on NS and try to imagine it.

Jesusaves?

Close. But I don't want to blow his cover. Besides, JS is catholic, I don't think they like each other.

Let me ask you a question: Does it turn your crank a bit when a guy calls you a brat? Of course, you respond by calling him a jerk, but you don't really mean it in a mean way either. Am I right?

Well if it's all in good fun it's cool. Although some things do hit a nerve, so you just have to know the person I guess. "Brat" doesn't piss me off as much other things. Cant think of anything right now though. :p

You know what gets me in super bitch mode? When people stare at me in the street, hoot as they drive past or, even better, yell things out of car windows.

I don't think so. Just think of the preachiest people on NS and try to imagine it.
Oh. What's "preachy"? :D

BTW, is there ever a chance a women would put ME at the top of her list? (It doesn't seem that way, sometimes. Damned depressions! :D )

Oh. What's "preachy"? :D

BTW, is there ever a chance a women would put ME at the top of her list? (It doesn't seem that way, sometimes. Damned depressions! :D )

Someone who preaches at you a lot. Tries to convert you or tell you why you're going to hell.

Depression saps your self-confidence, which makes you depressed. A vicious cycle. One of my shrinks said it takes an average of eight times to break out of any unwanted behavior cycle. Damn. Three more times to go.

Someone who preaches at you a lot. Tries to convert you or tell you why you're going to hell.

Depression saps your self-confidence, which makes you depressed. A vicious cycle. One of my shrinks said it takes an average of eight times to break out of any unwanted behavior cycle. Damn. Three more times to go.
I've lost track of MY cycles, so I have absolutely no idea when I'll get out, but I hope soon.

Speak for yourself(Salvondia).


Hey, guess what? I did. Indeed I even put up a disclaimer to deal with self-righteous people like yourself, it was right there a line or so above the bit you quoted, you know the thing that said "This entire post is "in general mode" and if you don't fit, fien whatever." so kindly take your self-righteous ass and F'off mmkay?

Asshole :fluffle: If I bring the vibrator, do I get to decide where it gets put? ;)
Sure, just so long as you're bent over at the time. :cool:

i am so confused right now.

Sure, just so long as you're bent over at the time. :cool:

As many positions as possible, as long as they're all reciprocated. :D

This actually got me thinking about what i was thinking about at work today.

if one asks a girl out and they say no how long should you wait to ask a different girl out?
5 minutes later if you like, it doesn't matter. Date as many women as you like one at a time or all at once. As long as you're honest, most women don't get upset about it. As a matter of fact, it usually makes them want you more. It means that you have a high value, because everyone wants a piece of you, therefore there must be something REALLY worth having.

You'll have to date a lot of women in order to find one that you REALLY like. There are lots of different kinds of women out there, and chances are that you'll only REALLY have chemistry with about 10% of them. You can have fun with all of them, but there are only a few that you could realistically spend a lifetime with.

Hell, it never bothered me if a guy dated six girls. As long as he was honest and didn't care if I did the same.(not that I ever dated that many at one time)

Well if it's all in good fun it's cool. Although some things do hit a nerve, so you just have to know the person I guess. "Brat" doesn't piss me off as much other things. Cant think of anything right now though. :p

Is it possible to not be having fun when you call someone a brat? Seriously, that's like trying to use "poopy" as a serious curse word. Between being called a brat and maybe a bra snap, or a smack on the butt, those are some of my favorite ways to start trouble with my favorite women. It drives 'em nuts every time. They act angry and call me names, yet they're giggling the whole time.

You know what gets me in super bitch mode? When people stare at me in the street, hoot as they drive past or, even better, yell things out of car windows.

Insecurity to the max. Not being able to get over someone they saw, so they have to stare and nervously spend the entire time how they can approach you. It's common and unfortunately most guys get stuck into that nervous mode, one way or another.

The yelling guys are also insecure, but just in a different way. If they yell something as they're going by, they feel like they've accomplished something when in fact they're nearly as insecure as the staring nervous guy.

As many positions as possible, as long as they're all reciprocated. :D
Sure, you can bring a friend if you like, just as long as she's not sexually repressed. :cool:

Hell, it never bothered me if a guy dated six girls. As long as he was honest and didn't care if I did the same.(not that I ever dated that many at one time)
Bodda boom bodda bing! Do I lie? :cool:





Don't answer that. ;)

The yelling guys are also insecure, but just in a different way. If they yell something as they're going by, they feel like they've accomplished something when in fact they're nearly as insecure as the staring nervous guy.

I thought drive-by-hooting was more about not giving the woman a chance to respond in the negative. They don't have to worry about being rejected, because by the time they've shouted, they're already past her.

Jerks that they are.

DAMN! My music just ended, and I was ejoying it so much too. :(

I thought drive-by-hooting was more about not giving the woman a chance to respond in the negative. They don't have to worry about being rejected, because by the time they've shouted, they're already past her.

Jerks that they are.
That's exactly it, which is why it's a sign of insecurity.

Have I recommended www.doubleyourdating.com for all you "nice guys" yet? Go there now, sign up for the newsletter. The man who runs that sight is freakin brilliant. This guy practically INVENTED the science of attraction. Attraction has been around, but no one has made it into a science until this guy did it. I'm not paid by him or anything, but I am completely serious about this site being invaluable.

Sure, you can bring a friend if you like, just as long as she's not sexually repressed. :cool:
Of course he's not.

I thought drive-by-hooting was more about not giving the woman a chance to respond in the negative. They don't have to worry about being rejected, because by the time they've shouted, they're already past her.

Jerks that they are.

Totally. Way to respect women too... :p

And Vynnland, I suppose calling someone a "brat" is a bit too childish to be taken seriously. I dunno, it probably wouldn't get that much of a reaction out of me. My bf usually calls me a nerd or something. :p
He's a nerd too though, so it's ok.

Totally. Way to respect women too... :p

And Vynnland, I suppose calling someone a "brat" is a bit too childish to be taken seriously. I dunno, it probably wouldn't get that much of a reaction out of me. My bf usually calls me a nerd or something. :p
He's a nerd too though, so it's ok.
Then he's not doing it right. I wait until a woman starts getting uppity with me (because I know it's gonna happen) at which time I'll usually do something like snap her bra, smack her on the butt or something equally "demeaning" while calling them a brat. After that, the wrestling and tickling usually begins.

Of course he's not.
Do you not know how to spell? "She" has an S at the beginning, not the end. Get with it or else I won't let you have any lube for that vibrator reaming you're going to get later.

Well I've never actually been called a brat, so he's not doing it at all. :p We have our own little games. :D

Well I've never actually been called a brat, so he's not doing it at all. :p We have our own little games. :D
That's important to have. You might suggest it to him sometime, if it does anything for you that is. :cool:

Do you not know how to spell? "She" has an S at the beginning, not the end. Get with it or else I won't let you have any lube for that vibrator reaming you're going to get later.

LMAO

He'll like you just fine. We have very similiar tastes in guys. :fluffle: The fluffle's from him. :D

LMAO

He'll like you just fine. We have very similiar tastes in guys. :fluffle: The fluffle's from him. :D
if you've got this nameless guy, why do you even need the vibrator? or is that for you?

if you've got this nameless guy, why do you even need the vibrator? or is that for you?
A girl always needs a vibrator! :p :D

if you've got this nameless guy, why do you even need the vibrator? or is that for you?

He prefers guys. But we've shared before. He loves "straight" guys. He thinks I make great bait.

He prefers guys. But we've shared before. He loves "straight" guys. He thinks I make great bait.
so the vibrator is for use on yourself then. ok.

LMAO

He'll like you just fine. We have very similiar tastes in guys. :fluffle: The fluffle's from him. :D
Since you can't figure out how to seperate he from she, you'll get no lube. The sooner you admit to your secret bisexual fantasies and agree to live them out, the better off you'll be. I don't deal well with sexually repressed people.

so the vibrator is for use on yourself then. ok.

Not if we have someone to share. Then it could be used elsewhere. :D

so the vibrator is for use on yourself then. ok.
Absolutely! And also the girlfriend she's going to bring. :cool:

Not if we have someone to share. Then it could be used elsewhere. :D
Right, like on the girlfriend you're bringing. :cool: