NationStates Jolt Archive


Why I dislike the US

Pages : [1] 2
Letila
14-02-2005, 23:25
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!
CSW
14-02-2005, 23:28
It's a lot better then chi...oh.

I think you're right.
Nasopotomia
14-02-2005, 23:31
Don't forget ludicrously over-inflated patriotism stirred up by that propaganda. That's part of what makes the rest of the world dislike the US. Oh, and the chimpanzee who sits on your throne.
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:33
3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).



Sorry, but you are SOL. In the US it is illegal to be denied medical service from any public hospital. Basically, if you show up at the ER with a broken leg, they must treat you (even if you can't pay for it, and they know you can't pay for it). Billions each year go to pay for people who can't pay their hospital bills.
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:34
Don't forget ludicrously over-inflated patriotism stirred up by that propaganda. That's part of what makes the rest of the world dislike the US. Oh, and the chimpanzee who sits on your throne.

I'd rather have a chimp then some inbred mongoloid!
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:34
1. I don't care.

2. Ants and grasshoppers my friend, ants and grasshoppers.

3. If they had gone to technical school or college for a job that didn't require mobility, then they'd be far better off.

4. Standards of Living, actually, in the most recent rankings of Standards of Living that I've seen (released in December) the US was thirteenth, whilst Britain, France and Germany were in the upper twenties. (I found this report on the BBC, and the title is something about Ireland being the best) Here's the link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4020523.stm

5. Maybe it's bragging. I certainly feel free to critisize our government, hell, I'll critisize the Patiot act as increbily retarded at the blink of an eye. I'd say we're pretty free.

6. It's changing though, and that's the important thing.

7. Welcome to every government on Earth. Everyone has retarded laws, even Holland.
Chess Squares
14-02-2005, 23:35
Sorry, but you are SOL. In the US it is illegal to be denied medical service from any public hospital. Basically, if you show up at the ER with a broken leg, they must treat you (even if you can't pay for it, and they know you can't pay for it). Billions each year go to pay for people who can't pay their hospital bills.
That doesnt stop the fact they are expected to pay the money

I'd rather have a chimp then some inbred mongoloid!

i'd expect he is inbred judging by his looks and intelligence.
Nasopotomia
14-02-2005, 23:37
I'd rather have a chimp then some inbred mongoloid!


Did you have a point with this? Personally, I'd choose a sensible leader with a decent manifesto. Or even just sensible, if pushed. Or at least vaguely intelligent. Or able to outwit things that grow under his own toenails.
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:37
i'd expect he is inbred judging by his looks and intelligence.

-Something about inbred mongoloids, I don't really know what it's supposed to amount to-
Let's lay off the ad hominem attacks now children.
Neo-Anarchists
14-02-2005, 23:38
I shall be the first one to say:
You don't like America?
You hate Freedom! I bet you're a commie, or you're with those Taliban scum!
[/sarcasm]
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:39
I shall be the first one to say:
You don't like America?
You hate Freedom! I bet you're a commie, or you're with those Taliban scum!
[/sarcasm]
This folks, is appropriate humor. Fine example of parody. If there was a thumbs up smiley I'd put it forward.
Von Witzleben
14-02-2005, 23:39
1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

Does this by any chance have to do with something Gundam Seed like? Or any other anmime show?
Ad nice that yor finally posting more then just a one sentence message again.
Swimmingpool
14-02-2005, 23:40
I'd rather have a chimp then some inbred mongoloid!
?
Chess Squares
14-02-2005, 23:40
Let's lay off the ad hominem attacks now children.
go correct wadd you hypocritical, partisan hack
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:41
go correct wadd you hypocritical, partisan hack
I did. It just took me a moment to edit it in.
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:41
7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.



Yup, no stupid laws at all in Europe or anywhere else. Just in the US. How about the one in Singapore about chewing gum smuggling? Or how in France and Germany it is illegal to purchase and sell Nazi stuff online? How about the anti-dwarf tossing law in Canada?

BTW most if not all sodomy laws are gone. Gay marriage laws should be up to each state, not the Fed. Pot is not "legal" in Holland or anywhere else for that matter. Prostitution is a total states rights issue as well. Nevada has legalized it in certain areas.
Swimmingpool
14-02-2005, 23:41
Let's lay off the ad hominem attacks now children.
But without them, Chess "I was too hungry to vote" Squares has nothing!

(I'm aware that this might be considered an ad hominem attack, so don't bother pointing out the irony.)
New Genoa
14-02-2005, 23:42
I doubt johnny is even serious 1% of the time so I don't know why you get so annoyed with him
Letila
14-02-2005, 23:43
1. I don't care.

Well you should. Sexual freedom doesn't hurt anyone when used responsibly and sexual repression is bad psychologically.

2. Ants and grasshoppers my friend, ants and grasshoppers.

Give me a break. Do you really believe all poor people are lazy and all rich people work hard?

3. If they had gone to technical school or college for a job that didn't require mobility, then they'd be far better off.

And those cost money.

4. Standards of Living, actually, in the most recent rankings of Standards of Living that I've seen (released in December) the US was thirteenth, whilst Britain, France and Germany were in the upper twenties. (I found this report on the BBC, and the title is something about Ireland being the best) Here's the link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4020523.stm

And it still ranks below 12 other nations. That is not something to be proud of.

5. Maybe it's bragging. I certainly feel free to critisize our government, hell, I'll critisize the Patiot act as increbily retarded at the blink of an eye. I'd say we're pretty free.

That's because your criticism is neutralized by the massive levels of propaganda. Have you ever been in an American school. In addition to giving the worst quality education the first world, they do nothing but propagandize.

6. It's changing though, and that's the important thing.

And it's far behind much of Europe.

7. Welcome to every government on Earth. Everyone has retarded laws, even Holland.

And that justifies the US's stupid laws?

Does this by any chance have to do with something Gundam Seed like? Or any other anmime show?
Ad nice that yor finally posting more then just a one sentence message again.

Only partly, though it is pretty sad when even Japan is freer sexually than the US.

Yup, no stupid laws at all in Europe or anywhere else. Just in the US. How about the one in Singapore about chewing gum smuggling? Or how in France and Germany it is illegal to purchase and sell Nazi stuff online? How about the anti-dwarf tossing law in Canada?

I said not to say "but so and so is worse". The fact is that the US has a lot of stupid laws. I don't care if Singapore has stupid laws, too. It's a totalitarian dictatorship and I already know that.
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:43
But without them, Chess "I was too hungry to vote" Squares has nothing!

(I'm aware that this might be considered an ad hominem attack, so don't bother pointing out the irony.)
You know, I remember that...
Sl0re
14-02-2005, 23:43
Don't forget ludicrously over-inflated patriotism stirred up by that propaganda. That's part of what makes the rest of the world dislike the US. Oh, and the chimpanzee who sits on your throne.

Anti-US hysteria is the result of a variant of nationalism. Nice projection though.

Try and love things about your own society without relying on the US as a negative 'other' to create a self image.
New Genoa
14-02-2005, 23:43
I shall be the first one to say:
You don't like America?
You hate Freedom! I bet you're a commie, or you're with those Taliban scum!
[/sarcasm]

Letila is a commie.
Chess Squares
14-02-2005, 23:43
Yup, no stupid laws at all in Europe or anywhere else. Just in the US. How about the one in Singapore about chewing gum smuggling? Or how in France and Germany it is illegal to purchase and sell Nazi stuff online? How about the anti-dwarf tossing law in Canada?
Singapore has alot of strict laws, and they have alot less crime


and the nazi stuff? what about all the fuss about the confederate flag? i rest my case.
Neo-Anarchists
14-02-2005, 23:43
How about the anti-dwarf tossing law in Canada?
We want our freedom to toss dwarves, if the desire for tossing is mutual!
Tossing is a perfectly valid form of self-expression and the furtherment of a relationship between a dwarf and another person.
(anti-dwarf tossing laws? what the heck?)
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:45
That doesnt stop the fact they are expected to pay the money



i'd expect he is inbred judging by his looks and intelligence.


Sorry but you are not in the same caliber of intelligence as the President. Aren't you in High School, son?
Chess Squares
14-02-2005, 23:46
Sorry but you are not in the same caliber of intelligence as the President. Aren't you in High School, son?
Point? i'm betting I could define more words than Bush could pronounce. (not that that is much of a task)
Maraque
14-02-2005, 23:49
None of those reasons represent the US as a whole. They're very sorry ass excuses to hate a whole nation.
Nadkor
14-02-2005, 23:49
How about the anti-dwarf tossing law in Canada?

If you want to toss off a dwarf or two, be my guest
Nasopotomia
14-02-2005, 23:49
1. I don't care.

Doesn't make anything better

2. Ants and grasshoppers my friend, ants and grasshoppers.

Are insects, and thus more than a little irrelevant.

3. If they had gone to technical school or college for a job that didn't require mobility, then they'd be far better off.

REALLY REALLY REALLY emphasises point 2.

4. Standards of Living, actually, in the most recent rankings of Standards of Living that I've seen (released in December) the US was thirteenth, whilst Britain, France and Germany were in the upper twenties. (I found this report on the BBC, and the title is something about Ireland being the best) Here's the link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4020523.stm

9 of the top ten were in Europe. Hence, many European nations were higher up. Admittedly, the big European players aren't particularly high up either, but we never said they were any good either.

5. Maybe it's bragging. I certainly feel free to critisize our government, hell, I'll critisize the Patiot act as increbily retarded at the blink of an eye. I'd say we're pretty free.

Certainly not as free as your media claims. If you were truly free, you wouldn't be able to get 10 years in prison for moving some plants across an imaginary line. And women would be allowed to have abortions without any of this silly controversy.

6. It's changing though, and that's the important thing.

Fair point. Also, it must be said you've got much the same situation in most of Europe, too.

7. Welcome to every government on Earth. Everyone has retarded laws, even Holland.

San Marino doesn't. San Marino rules. It's only got a population of about 20,000 people. You don't NEED laws with that many.

Unfortunately, all the other governments do, including the Netherlands. But not as many as, say, the US, Britain, France or Germany.

Basically, what we've got to say is that any nation trying to claim it's a real power is actually a bit wank. Which is entirely fair. But most other countries agree that they're a bit crap. In Britain, no-one likes the government, and we don't particularly like our country either. It's just where we live. The French are pretty much the same, and so are the Germans. It's only the US that idolizes it's leaders and it's nation so much. Oh, and Nazi Germany did, too.
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:50
Point? i'm betting I could define more words than Bush could pronounce. (not that that is much of a task)


Yes that's all well and good little buddy, but I guess you never really had to lead nearly 300 million people, manage a war and all of that?

I guess you'd just be too hungry to lead the country.
New Genoa
14-02-2005, 23:52
1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

1. FCC is bad, true. 2. Americans are not sex-negative, we're the home to the freaking Playboy Mansion, bud! And there's more and more sexual themes on TV and in movies now than there has been before. How hard is it for you to find some good porn in the US? Not too hard. So don't give me that sexual repression BS. We may act all innocent, oh yes we're very clean, but it's essentially BULLSHIT.

Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

Tune it out. Every country has propaganda and blah blah. Don't listen to it if you don't want to hear it. Simple as that.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Meh. All countries have stupids laws. We'll catch up sooner or later. And if you think that anal sex is legal, you are naive. How many of those archaic laws are actually enforced (anal, oral)? Personally, I'd be pleased if the US legalized same-sex marriage, AT LEAST decriminalized pot, and well.. I already addressed the anal sex thing. Prostitution may be harder to get through.
Johnny Wadd
14-02-2005, 23:53
If you want to toss off a dwarf or two, be my guest


I can't toss as my limbs be gone, but I'd love to be dressed in velcro and heaved onto a velcro wall. It would be a blast. Just as long as I don't do it in Canada.

Bill 97 2003
An Act to ban
dwarf tossing

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:

Dwarf tossing banned

1. (1) No person shall organize a dwarf tossing event or engage in dwarf tossing.

Offence

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.

Commencement

2. This Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.

Short title

3. The short title of this Act is the Dwarf Tossing Ban Act, 2003.
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:54
Well you should. Sexual freedom doesn't hurt anyone when used responsibly and sexual repression is bad psychologically.
Overexposure can be bad, but I admit that I wouldn't mind if there was a bit more openness about it.
Give me a break. Do you really believe all poor people are lazy and all rich people work hard?
Yep. Of course there are annoying rich people (Paris "i'm a whore" Hilton), but for the most part they are decent hard-working folks who are NOT in some dark cabaal to keep the workingman down.

And those cost money.
Not a lot though. Hell, you can live an OK life by working two jobs and attending technical school. I know, my cousin does it, and he helps support a kid.

And it still ranks below 12 other nations. That is not something to be proud of.
I think the more important fact is that it is the top ranking large nation.

That's because your criticism is neutralized by the massive levels of propaganda. Have you ever been in an American school. In addition to giving the worst quality education the first world, they do nothing but propagandize.
Definitely not my experience for twelve years of school. The teachers made their best attempts to remain above the fray. I had two teachers come down on a position, my German teacher and my Political Science teacher, and they both came down as liberals of sorts.

And it's far behind much of Europe.
Far behind? I'd say we're making serious progress, sure we haven't had a female President yet, but our Secretary of State is female. Beyond that, many women do choose lower level jobs, like teachers because they favor personal contact. Now, this isn't applicable to every woman, but it is to most.



And that justifies the US's stupid laws?
I'm just saying it cannot be avoided, the prescence of stupid laws. I'm not justifying anything.
Natopia
14-02-2005, 23:54
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

As you said: Americans themselves are sex-negative. So you hate the U.S because its people choose to keep more sexual things off of their own airwaves (seeing as the FCC rarely receives complaints for being too regulative)? That sounds more like you just happen to disagree with these people on that subject. Please tell me you don't hate everyone you have a minor disagreement with?

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

If you would care to go check the U.S's economic records for personal income for the past century you would find that only about ~5% of America's millionaires on average inherited their money, which means most of them really did work for it.

Now, I don't know where you're coming from, but the poor arn't seem as wasting it all on drugs, but you are right that it is seen as being their fault. While this notion bothers you, you provide no reason for this. Seeing as the notion doesn't bother everyone I'd ask you to explain in greater detail.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

As was said earlier: no hospital can refuse to provide care for someone who comes in with a serious medical problem. It doesn't matter if they can pay it or not; they will still get treated. The hospital then MUST accept any payment plan the recipient offers (if the recipient is to poor to pay immediatly). The hospital must even accept plans that have no chance or really working such as "I'll pay you a penny a month until its paid off".

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

Andaluciae handled this question very well. Go read the link.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

Here you have provided an accusation and no proof to back it up, thus, making it a baseless accusation. You provide suspicion, but no supporting evidence for a claim of this size. This was really just a waste of text.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

And that might just be do to dumb luck. Do you have proof that it is because Americans are more sexist then their Industrialized counter-parts? Or is this just another suspicion hiding as fact?

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Speaking as an International Law student: Every nation has really stupid laws. All nations appear to have them in a roughly similar amount as well.
History lovers
14-02-2005, 23:55
What Chimpanzee that sit's on our throne? Dick Cheney is not a chimp!

Seriously, though, I agree with much of what was said in the beginning. I am an American, and I am thoroughly apalled at what passes for 'freedom' in the US today. The US was not many of those things until January 2001.
NOTE TO ADMINISTRATION: It's Liberty and Justice for all, idiots, not Liberty and Justice for people the Administration likes, Republicans, and those who funded the Comittee to Re-elect President Bush

There are also a few strange things in the US as well, like the retarded laws. Like, unlike some believe, Roe v. Wade did not legalize abortion, it made the illegalization of abortion illegal. If you want to get into some really contradictory stuff, try reading the US tax code, which every time it's 'simplified', they add 1600 pages to it.

There are a few things that do need to be changed.
Like the. . .ahem. . .leader.

CUHL
Chess Squares
14-02-2005, 23:56
Meh. All countries have stupids laws. We'll catch up sooner or later. And if you think that anal sex is legal, you are naive. How many of those archaic laws are actually enforced (anal, oral)? Personally, I'd be pleased if the US legalized same-sex marriage, AT LEAST decriminalized pot, and well.. I already addressed the anal sex thing. Prostitution may be harder to get through.
anal sex ban was enforced until the supreme court told texas to go blow it out their ear and overturned all such laws in one swift motion.

there is a difference between stupid laws and dumb laws. dumb laws are not enforced and are like do not walk down the street with an ice cream cone in your back pocket (i am not kidding you). stupid laws are the ones that are or were enforced recently: anal sex ban (TX) and gay marriage in nearly every damn state in the union
Branin
14-02-2005, 23:57
*stereotype alarm*
That said, these problems are sadly prominent right now.
Andaluciae
14-02-2005, 23:57
Yes that's all well and good little buddy, but I guess you never really had to lead nearly 300 million people, manage a war and all of that?

I guess you'd just be too hungry to lead the country.
CUT THE AD HOMINEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Letila
14-02-2005, 23:57
1. FCC is bad, true. 2. Americans are not sex-negative, we're the home to the freaking Playboy Mansion, bud! And there's more and more sexual themes on TV and in movies now than there has been before. How hard is it for you to find some good porn in the US? Not too hard. So don't give me that sexual repression BS. We may act all innocent, oh yes we're very clean, but it's essentially BULLSHIT.

And yet nude beaches are illegal here and anime is censored for even the slightest mention of sex. They have nudity in commercials in Europe and have you already forgotten about the way Americans freaked out about the whole Superbowl thing?

Meh. All countries have stupids laws. We'll catch up sooner or later. And if you think that anal sex is legal, you are naive. How many of those archaic laws are actually enforced (anal, oral)? Personally, I'd be pleased if the US legalized same-sex marriage, AT LEAST decriminalized pot, and well.. I already addressed the anal sex thing. Prostitution may be harder to get through.

Yes, all countries have stupid laws, but that doesn't excuse the US's. Anal sex is illegal, but the only reason it isn't enforced so much is because the police don't have the manpower (unPC?) to enforce it.
Equus
14-02-2005, 23:57
I can't toss as my limbs be gone, but I'd love to be dressed in velcro and heaved onto a velcro wall. It would be a blast. Just as long as I don't do it in Canada.

Bill 97 2003
An Act to ban
dwarf tossing

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:

Dwarf tossing banned

1. (1) No person shall organize a dwarf tossing event or engage in dwarf tossing.

Offence

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $5,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both.

Commencement

2. This Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.

Short title

3. The short title of this Act is the Dwarf Tossing Ban Act, 2003.

Actually, Johnny, dwarf-tossing is legal in Canada (the bill quoted above did not pass) but is illegal in Florida. So feel free to come up North and get your butt tossed at a wall if you really want, but don't go to Miami.
Feed Him Pretzals
14-02-2005, 23:57
Sorry, but you are SOL. In the US it is illegal to be denied medical service from any public hospital. Basically, if you show up at the ER with a broken leg, they must treat you (even if you can't pay for it, and they know you can't pay for it). Billions each year go to pay for people who can't pay their hospital bills.

yeah...but what about getting the medicines that could help them live happier healthier lives...that is not guareenteed!
Stalinida
14-02-2005, 23:58
I'd rather have a chimp then some inbred mongoloid!

you're assuming he's not an inbred mongoloid
Nasopotomia
14-02-2005, 23:59
Anti-US hysteria is the result of a variant of nationalism. Nice projection though.

Try and love things about your own society without relying on the US as a negative 'other' to create a self image.

Some of us aren't simply affected by a mass hysteria and disliked the US because of the deep fundamental flaws in its governmental psychology. And, given that the US actually ISN'T the centre of the universe, I generally think about my own society by thinking about, to be blunt, MY OWN SOCIETY. I don't need the US to create a negative 'other', as I look at the way things are HERE. OK?

Oh, and since the US is supposed to be the most free and wonderful place on Earth, why do people use it to create this negative other when, just for example, China or North Korea would fit so much better?
Free Garza
14-02-2005, 23:59
Could we be freer, yes! Should be we more socialistic, and thus economically enslaved by the state and less free, HELL NO! Whatever our flaws, we don't have the censorship that Germany has against minority political groups, the same with Canada. Even racists have rights, much as I dislike them. And yes, to some extent, we do expect people to EARN wealth not have it handed out to them. What's wrong with that? I favor more economic freedom and more personal freedom! That's my Libertarian credo. If you Europeans don't like it, then vive le difference!
New Genoa
15-02-2005, 00:00
There are nude beaches in America, Letila. And as Chess said, the SC turned over those laws (or was it the gay sex law?). I don't know. But if anal is illegal, it's on a state-by-state basis.
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:00
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!


More than any of these reasons, the main reason why I, as a rest-of-the-worlder, hate America (not Americans) is their culture imposition. America seems to genuinally believe that the rest of the world wants to be just like America and completly take all of its culture. It seems to view itself as being far superior to the EU, but the truth is, if America tried to join the EU,it would be rejected. For a time, American culture was popular with the masses in other countires, but now, the average person is seriously sick of it.
Makanda
15-02-2005, 00:01
Basically, what we've got to say is that any nation trying to claim it's a real power is actually a bit wank. Which is entirely fair. But most other countries agree that they're a bit crap. In Britain, no-one likes the government, and we don't particularly like our country either. It's just where we live. The French are pretty much the same, and so are the Germans. It's only the US that idolizes it's leaders and it's nation so much. Oh, and Nazi Germany did, too.

As an Amerikan who hates his government, I agree with pretty much all of your post. However, there are many many many people here who don't hold those views at all (haven't you seen sorryeverybody.com yet), so it still rankles my noggin to be lumped in with the connecticut cowboys. In there future, could you refer to the idiots as ONE distinct group of people, who, as you eloquently argued, deserve your scorn?
Johnny Wadd
15-02-2005, 00:02
you're assuming he's not an inbred mongoloid


His family tree has branches, unlike many in Europe.
Frangland
15-02-2005, 00:02
Point? i'm betting I could define more words than Bush could pronounce. (not that that is much of a task)

try doing it in front of the whole world... you might not even be able to say your own name, much less a cool word like "strategery"
Nasopotomia
15-02-2005, 00:03
His family tree has branches, unlike many in Europe.

His family tree has it's roots in Europe. And still has branches there.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 00:03
His family tree has branches, unlike many in Europe.
where in your head does this equation make sense?

elite royal familes = most of europe

im confused, i just cant make it balance out
Markreich
15-02-2005, 00:04
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

This is certainly fair. Yet within twenty miles of my home, there are no less than five strip clubs, a dozen porn shops, and 17 channels on my TV, if I want them.
I've seen British TV. I've seen Polish, Czech, Austrian, German, and Slovak TV. And I don't see porn on in the middle of the afternoon on channel six over there, either.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

*SO* true of anywhere. The Germans and Austrians are even worse than Americans, IMHO. And all of Europe treats the Gypsies (whom are the poorest of the poor) like scum, so please look about your own glass house before throwing stones.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

As mentioned by someone else, this is not true.

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

Um... huh? What criteria are you using?
I agree on the life expenctancy -- the Japanese do live longer. But they also outlive the Euros.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

Tell me one thing I can't do in the US that I can do in Belgium. I can name dozens that are true the other way.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

OH PUHLEEZE. The Spanish, Italians and Brits are no saints in this department, to say nothing of the former Warsaw Pact nations.
Further, the number of women in US government has grown significantly over the past twenty years. My own governor (Rell) is a woman.
Far behind? Post some stats! :p

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

All nations do. How about the one that if you somehow destroy a fruit tree in Holland, you have to pay for the tree and the fruit it would bear for (I think?) 20 years?
Also, why does Holland have a 25% crime rate?

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

Nah. More fun pointing out that all is not that great in Euroland either. :)
Colodia
15-02-2005, 00:05
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.Well let's take a look at these reasons and see if they really do have a foundation to stand on, shall we?

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.
Understandable with your FCC example, however, if you ask most Americans, they have a pretty freelance attitude toward sex and censorship on the T.V. The FCC adresses the complaints of a few people, they do not listen to the majority.
Basically, just because the FCC and a bunch of psycho mothers and Christians don't like it, doesn't mean they speak for everyone. C'mon Letila...you KNOW this isn't true at all when you look at advertising and marketing in America!

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.Yes, that's unfortunatly a general attitude toward the poor. And an unfortunate fate to the poor. But it comes with capitalism.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).
Actually, it's not so much that you have less options if your low-class, it's that you get healthcare of LESSER quality.

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.
Actually, that is the RESULT of propaganda that your hearing from other people.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.
....huh?

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.
Well if you don't like them, DON'T VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM IN! It's a democracy man, your supposed to make things better, not give up on them.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

Not me.
History lovers
15-02-2005, 00:05
I agree. Racism, to a non-violent extent and non-acted upon extent, must be legal or you lose the point of freedom of speech. But, personally, I am to polite say here where I would tell the nazis to do with their I they were speak their spit anywhere near me.
Frangland
15-02-2005, 00:05
yep, all the way back to Alfred the Great, Robert the Bruce, the Plantagenets, Clovis, Charlemagne, William I, etc.

So... if you go back far enough his ancestors were cross-bred. hehe
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:05
As you said: Americans themselves are sex-negative. So you hate the U.S because its people choose to keep more sexual things off of their own airwaves (seeing as the FCC rarely receives complaints for being too regulative)? That sounds more like you just happen to disagree with these people on that subject. Please tell me you don't hate everyone you have a minor disagreement with?

They impose their unhealthy views on the rest of us. That's what bothers me. It's embarrasing to see how the US reacts to sex. Most Americans hate sex, but I don't see any reason why I should suffer for it.

If you would care to go check the U.S's economic records for personal income for the past century you would find that only about ~5% of America's millionaires on average inherited their money, which means most of them really did work for it.

Now, I don't know where you're coming from, but the poor arn't seem as wasting it all on drugs, but you are right that it is seen as being their fault. While this notion bothers you, you provide no reason for this. Seeing as the notion doesn't bother everyone I'd ask you to explain in greater detail.

I don't have the time to explain the way capitalism actually works, suffice to say that social classes should not exist and the US is far more hierarchial than many nations.

As was said earlier: no hospital can refuse to provide care for someone who comes in with a serious medical problem. It doesn't matter if they can pay it or not; they will still get treated. The hospital then MUST accept any payment plan the recipient offers (if the recipient is to poor to pay immediatly). The hospital must even accept plans that have no chance or really working such as "I'll pay you a penny a month until its paid off".

And they are in debt for the rest of their lives, I'm told. I'm told you only get stablized, actually. No real treatment is required.

And that might just be do to dumb luck. Do you have proof that it is because Americans are more sexist then their Industrialized counter-parts? Or is this just another suspicion hiding as fact?

And what other reason would it be? Women from the US are less able to run for office?
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:09
Understandable with your FCC example, however, if you ask most Americans, they have a pretty freelance attitude toward sex and censorship on the T.V. The FCC adresses the complaints of a few people, they do not listen to the majority.
Basically, just because the FCC and a bunch of psycho mothers and Christians don't like it, doesn't mean they speak for everyone. C'mon Letila...you KNOW this isn't true at all when you look at advertising and marketing in America!

Europe has nude beaches and nudity in commercials. Try putting nudity in commercials in the US.

Yes, that's unfortunatly a general attitude toward the poor. And an unfortunate fate to the poor. But it comes with capitalism.

Actually, it's not so much that you have less options if your low-class, it's that you get healthcare of LESSER quality.

And yet everyone loves capitalism.

Well if you don't like them, DON'T VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM IN! It's a democracy man, your supposed to make things better, not give up on them.

My vote can't cancel out the Religious Wrong. I'm only one person and one hated by many Americans to boot. Nothing I can do seems to change their minds.
Frangland
15-02-2005, 00:10
please, letila, tell us how capitalism really works.
History lovers
15-02-2005, 00:10
Please do not mistake 'Christians' and 'Right-wing christians' The former is not a political group and the latter is.
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:10
Pot is not "legal" in Holland.
It's not? Well maybe not clearly statet as "legal". But the selling and consumption of it is condoned. No cop will try to arrest you for posessing and/or smoking it.
Pyschotika
15-02-2005, 00:11
lol, notice that everyone who claims to hate American government somehow just thinks it is bad to make pot illegal?
Vegas-Rex
15-02-2005, 00:13
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

1. The third world has an even worse attitude. Ever heard of Sharia law?
2. I have met only one person who thinks that the poor are fundamentally worse than the rich, and that's just because he's a francophile. Most people think the rich cheated to get what they have.
3.Move to Oregon. With socialized medicine, assisted suicide, and medical marijuana, we rock the medical world.
4. Actually that's due to the fact that the European working class aren't even considered citizens. While we have issues with Mexicans they have many times that with North Africans, Gypsies, and Turks.
5. There's a lot of anti-US propaganda too. If you average it out it balances pretty well. And hey, at least we don't have a month named after our dictator like Turkmenistan.
6. Again, by the rest of the world you mean Europe. Sharia law's a bitch, and tribal law is just as sexist.
7. Move to Oregon, help us vote out our anti-gay marriage laws, and you will be at peace.
History lovers
15-02-2005, 00:15
Let me say this: I am NOT NECESSARILY against the anti-pot laws. I am against laws that restrict freedoms. This does restrict freedoms. I think that even tobacco smokers should go and stuff their cigarettes in the trash or down their throats. The idiots forced my sister into two separate asthma attacks. This brings about the Bush Administration's anti-environmental policies. The first to die from this would be people like my sister, who, through no fault of their own, die young and with empty lives because some idiot couldn't live with a little restriction that could save thousands, possibly millions, of innocent lives.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:15
And yet nude beaches are illegal here and anime is censored for even the slightest mention of sex. They have nudity in commercials in Europe and have you already forgotten about the way Americans freaked out about the whole Superbowl thing?
Nude beaches are illegal?
And as anime is mainly aired on Cartoon Network, a channel explicitly for kids, I really don't see a problem with this.


Yes, all countries have stupid laws, but that doesn't excuse the US's. Anal sex is illegal, but the only reason it isn't enforced so much is because the police don't have the manpower (unPC?) to enforce it.
No, it is legal. The Supreme Court struck down the laws that made it illegal.
Vegas-Rex
15-02-2005, 00:15
lol, notice that everyone who claims to hate American government somehow just thinks it is bad to make pot illegal?

That's because the clearest example of a country better than the US is the Netherlands, where pot is served in coffee shops.
Juthopia
15-02-2005, 00:16
comment: remember that some of these comments are against the policies of the Bush administration, relating to healthcare, homophobia, capitalist economic gaps, etc. and that Clinton was working to create universal healthcare. Don't make me go into the Patriot Act :headbang:
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:17
And I completely forgot to add a bit more on number four. The real reason is related to diet, but it's not becuase we have more fat people. it's because European foodstuffs contain more saturated fat than Asian foodstuffs. Espescially those of the Japanese, whose main diet is traditionally one of fish and rice products.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:18
1. The third world has an even worse attitude. Ever heard of Sharia law?

I said not to say "but so and so is worse".

2. I have met only one person who thinks that the poor are fundamentally worse than the rich, and that's just because he's a francophile. Most people think the rich cheated to get what they have.

Actually, I'm told France has much better welfare than the US. Besides, actions speak louder than words.

3.Move to Oregon. With socialized medicine, assisted suicide, and medical marijuana, we rock the medical world.

And it's one state out of 50.

4. Actually that's due to the fact that the European working class aren't even considered citizens. While we have issues with Mexicans they have many times that with North Africans, Gypsies, and Turks.

Now that is an extraordinary claim. Can you back it up?

5. There's a lot of anti-US propaganda too. If you average it out it balances pretty well. And hey, at least we don't have a month named after our dictator like Turkmenistan.

What, F 9-11? That is one movie against hours of Fox News.

6. Again, by the rest of the world you mean Europe. Sharia law's a bitch, and tribal law is just as sexist.

I said the rest of the first world several times. I realize that there are places worse than the US, but my point is that there are places better than the US.
Natopia
15-02-2005, 00:18
They impose their unhealthy views on the rest of us. That's what bothers me. It's embarrasing to see how the US reacts to sex. Most Americans hate sex, but I don't see any reason why I should suffer for it.

The United States is a Republic with heavy overtones of a full Democracy. Because of this; majority rules. Being allowed to see what you wish on television is not part of a person's inalienable rights. So if the majority says "Give them clothes" then clothes they shall have. You can either convince enough people so that the majority changes its mind, deal with it or move somewhere else.

I don't have the time to explain the way capitalism actually works, suffice to say that social classes should not exist and the US is far more hierarchial than many nations.

The United States isn't very hierarchial, hierarchy implies that it is done because of an inborn status. In the U.S its just that the more money you have the more stuff you can get.

And they are in debt for the rest of their lives, I'm told. I'm told you only get stablized, actually. No real treatment is required.

Its a debt that never really has to get paid. The hospital does not have the resources to come and hunt a person down and most hospitals don't even try. So while in theory you're in debt, in practice you are not.

And what other reason would it be? Women from the US are less able to run for office?

A couple reasons really. First is just dumb-luck, somebody has to be near the bottom after all. Second is that you and others are wrong in your impression. Third is that the women of the European States are more ambitious then their American counter-parts due to cultural conditions.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:19
That's because the clearest example of a country better than the US is the Netherlands, where pot is served in coffee shops.
Equating the legality of pot to the quality of the country is like if you equate dry skin to owning an MP3 player.
History lovers
15-02-2005, 00:19
I live under the bloody Bush administration. A close relative of mine WORKS for the government, which treats her like scum. She works for Medicare, the medical care for old people, which is being cut. They already cut Medicaid, the medical care for the poor. I could compare and contrast this administration to several fascist dictators, but I've got better stuff to do with my time.
Johnny Wadd
15-02-2005, 00:20
comment: remember that some of these comments are against the policies of the Bush administration, relating to healthcare, homophobia, capitalist economic gaps, etc. and that Clinton was working to create universal healthcare. Don't make me go into the Patriot Act :headbang:

Yeah about Hillarycare. Sure, let the government control an industry that is 1/7th of our economy. They can't even keep their own costs down, so let's totally screw over the economy.
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:20
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.
The rest of the world hates us because were free? No the rest of the world hates us because they are too cowardly to do anything for themselves, and are angry at the fact that their existence is impossible without the united states.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.
Heres my question, whose business is this? Oh... ours. Not yours, not europes, not asia. I dont give a rats what they think about what we choose to censor on tv. In america we have this crazy thing called decency, probably why we dont turn out like the snobby liberal elite that infests the cities of france and western europe.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.
Really. Are you american? Do you have the first clue how the 'poor' are treated? Ive seen plenty of poor and never once have i thought about drugs. This just proves that you, actually, dont know shit about america but are fully content to make up lies to perpetuate your position.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).
welfare, social security, uh how about GETTING A JOB? If you break your leg you are treated. If you work you work until you pay of the medical bills. In your socialist paradises you have these things handed to you on a silver platter, and you have some of the longest medical waiting times in the world, not to mention your absurd taxes. I'm conservative and i dont expect crippled people to do a damn thing.

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

Our standard of living is high - if you want it to be and you work hard enough. If you look at the statistics, america is not that much more obese than your opulent buddies. Hell in Samoa, the obesity rate is 75%. In thailand its 16%. Its 31% in america, and I see no problem with it. If fat people work for their money they can spend it however they damn well please.
5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

You are simply stupid, im sorry. If youre constantly hearing how "free" we are maybe you are listening to the wrong source... like, oh, i dont know, mommy and daddy. what kind of propaganda are you talkin gabout? see you dont offer any sources for this bullshit so why should i believe you? the burden of proof i on you.
6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.
Did you ever consider that people are elected here based upon merits for office? Maybe your country is so utterly infested with liberals that they simply place women in government so everything is equal, regardless of their skill in office. Thats the liberal mindset that ruins so many of your countrys.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.
whats this got to do with anything? maybe our country has different (or perhaps existing) moral values.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!
Yeah it is. Youre probably against freeing the iraqis from a dictator who gassed thousands of them, arent you?

the bottom line is, if you hate america, you are an idiot. for the amount of good we have done in the world (including probably liberating your country at some point, if it was in western europe) you are sure a pompous ass of a person. the difference between you and me is that i dont bitch about how other countries operate, because youre too stupid to see differences in culture.
Jack scarlington
15-02-2005, 00:21
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

and yet people from your country and other countreis keep comeing here so our country must not be as bad as u say it is and japan can suck my dick for all i care
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:22
Third is that the women of the European States are more ambitious then their American counter-parts due to cultural conditions.

What cultural conditions? Have I missed something?
Johnny Wadd
15-02-2005, 00:23
Actually, I'm told France has much better welfare than the US. Besides, actions speak louder than words.



Yeah they have a better welfare system, mainly because they have double digit unemployment.
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:23
All nations do. How about the one that if you somehow destroy a fruit tree in Holland, you have to pay for the tree and the fruit it would bear for (I think?) 20 years?
Also, why does Holland have a 25% crime rate?
Um..no we don't. We have had a decrease of crimes in 2004. Where did you get this BS from?
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:23
Doesn't make anything better



Are insects, and thus more than a little irrelevant.
It's an allusion to Aesop's fable relating to hard work genius.

9 of the top ten were in Europe. Hence, many European nations were higher up. Admittedly, the big European players aren't particularly high up either, but we never said they were any good either.
You might want to notice that part of the equation is the fact of size. It becomes much harder to implement socialistic policies in a larger country. It's really a matter of logistics and bureaucracy.

Certainly not as free as your media claims. If you were truly free, you wouldn't be able to get 10 years in prison for moving some plants across an imaginary line. And women would be allowed to have abortions without any of this silly controversy.

San Marino doesn't. San Marino rules. It's only got a population of about 20,000 people. You don't NEED laws with that many.


San Marino is now on my list of "places to visit before I die."
Sinuhue
15-02-2005, 00:24
You are simply stupid, im sorry. *snip*

....the bottom line is, if you hate america, you are an idiot..... *snip* ....because youre too stupid to see differences in culture.
Hmm...ad hominem...usually what someone uses when they can't argue their way out of a wet paper bag. Nice. :rolleyes:
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:25
Yeah they have a better welfare system, mainly because they have double digit unemployment.
Every country, that doesn't have full employment, has a double digit.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:25
The United States is a Republic with heavy overtones of a full Democracy. Because of this; majority rules. Being allowed to see what you wish on television is not part of a person's inalienable rights. So if the majority says "Give them clothes" then clothes they shall have. You can either convince enough people so that the majority changes its mind, deal with it or move somewhere else.

So I should have my favorite shows censored to satisfy some sexually repressed fundies?

The United States isn't very hierarchial, hierarchy implies that it is done because of an inborn status. In the U.S its just that the more money you have the more stuff you can get.

Hierarchy is not the same thing as aristocracy.

Its a debt that never really has to get paid. The hospital does not have the resources to come and hunt a person down and most hospitals don't even try. So while in theory you're in debt, in practice you are not.

And don't you get bad credit for it?

A couple reasons really. First is just dumb-luck, somebody has to be near the bottom after all. Second is that you and others are wrong in your impression. Third is that the women of the European States are more ambitious then their American counter-parts due to cultural conditions.

So it is pure coincidence that there are only about 10% women in congress?

Nude beaches are illegal?

Yes.

And as anime is mainly aired on Cartoon Network, a channel explicitly for kids, I really don't see a problem with this.

Not just that. Did you know that in order to be legally allowed to show Neon Genesis Evangelion on American television, they would have to censor so much out of it that only 30 minutes out of the original 750 or so minutes could be shown.

No, it is legal. The Supreme Court struck down the laws that made it illegal.

Doesn't Texas still have laws against it.

Then there is the truly terrible education system of the US. It is so embarrasing to see Americans try to discuss geography.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:25
Um..no we don't. We have had a decrease of crimes in 2004. Where did you get this BS from?
Aha! You finally admitted where you're from! Victory is mine!

(and no one is saying that your crime went up, just that you have a fairly high rate. But that number seems so high as to lead me to suspect that, so, I'm just being random. Cheerio!)
Pyschotika
15-02-2005, 00:25
1. If you havn't noticed, the past 20 or so years there have been more Women in Government and being able to do a lot of what men can do. ( And response to the guy talking about the stripper bars and porno shops etc, isn't it the females who came to the Managers of the Stripper Bars first and applied to rub up on a bar nude for 3 dollars a hour? ) Oh and yes a lot of Americans are for censorship, from the time period I have lived in Nebraska they have gotten rid of porn channels, and porn purchasing under heavy law ( 19 Years old to Purchase Porn, 18 to watch it...that part doesn't make so much sence ) And a lot of other states enforce " Must be 21 or older to watch/purchase porn. " And I mean come on! ITS THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE NO SELF ESTEEM THAT COME TO THESE INDUSTRYS AND CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX ON A VIDEO TAPE!
2. It isn't exactly " Elitism " its more like " Well hell, I'm not going to give some homeless person 20 dollars because he chose not to graduate from highschool "
3. Yea, like Europe doesn't have its problems here? If you're leg is soooo bad that it is going to just " fall " off you're hip, you would get surgery on it even if you couldn't afford it. Its called " Wellfare " ( Which I really dislike, cuz its a drain of good tax dollars that could actually go to real HEALTHCARE ) and also, they are just put in debt. And yes, even I would help someone with getting money if they needed it for something like this, so would a lot of other Conservatives ( despite popular belief )
4. Yea, but don't forget companys like McDonalds is international, not just for America only. And Americans ARE so free that there allowed to get fat, without there government up there asses saying " LOSE WEIGHT!!! "
5. Yes, we are verry free. Thank you for noticing :) But, where do you get the " ...I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore... " Is it because...oh lets say, you like to listen to Liberal propaganda a bit to much?
6. Refer to what I said in number 1
7. Now I think they go to far with Gay Marriage. Marriage is strictly, by law and religion, defined as a union between a man and a woman. Now, I think making something else for Gay marriage would be better then a all out ban. So the couple can recieve the same bennifits a straight couple would get, like Life insurance for example. And you have to admit, lots of other European countrys make a lot of stupid laws. ( Ok, Asia is feeling a bit lonely....so does Asia )
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:25
The rest of the world hates us because were free? No the rest of the world hates us because they are too cowardly to do anything for themselves, and are angry at the fact that their existence is impossible without the united states.


The existance of the rest of the world is possible without America. Without it, we would miss its contributions to the world economy, the space program etc. but that does not mean we would not be able to exist.
Chridtopia
15-02-2005, 00:25
Sorry, but you are SOL. In the US it is illegal to be denied medical service from any public hospital. Basically, if you show up at the ER with a broken leg, they must treat you (even if you can't pay for it, and they know you can't pay for it). Billions each year go to pay for people who can't pay their hospital bills.

No, it's illiegal to let someone die of an injury. They don't have to treat anyone that comes into the emergancy room.
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:27
The existance of the rest of the world is possible without America. Without it, we would miss its contributions to the world economy, the space program etc. but that does not mean we would not be able to exist.
yeah well you enjoy that life, lets progress about 300 years backwards why dont we.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:27
Um..no we don't. We have had a decrease of crimes in 2004. Where did you get this BS from?

I thought you were German? :confused:
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:29
Aha! You finally admitted where you're from! Victory is mine!
:confused: Huh? I said on several occasions that I'm German living in the Netherlands. So I have no clue what kind of victory you are talking about.

(and no one is saying that your crime went up, just that you have a fairly high rate. But that number seems so high as to lead me to suspect that, so, I'm just being random. Cheerio!)
I still would like to know what kind of BS source that number came from.
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:29
yeah well you enjoy that life, lets progress about 300 years backwards why dont we.

I never denyed we would be a lot worse without you, I simply said that what you said that we wouldn't be able to exist was rubbish.
Pyschotika
15-02-2005, 00:29
Oh wait...I thought Latvia was saying we DON'T censor enough...oh well, I still like to share my thoughts on porn and censorship. Ok gotta run. People, have fun. And really, the only people I know in person who hate our government are POT HEADS.
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:29
I thought you were German? :confused:
I am. But I don't live in Germany.
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:30
I never denyed we would be a lot worse without you, I simply said that what you said that we wouldn't be able to exist was rubbish.
you wouldent exist with your opulent, condescending, arrogant lifestyle thats for sure.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:30
Not just that. Did you know that in order to be legally allowed to show Neon Genesis Evangelion on American television, they would have to censor so much out of it that only 30 minutes out of the original 750 or so minutes could be shown.
While Eva is a most excellent show, it's not exactly for kids...

And, yes, I do have to say that there are some things little kids shouldn't have to worry about for now. Just let 'em be happy.



Doesn't Texas still have laws against it.
The Supreme Court struck those laws down.

Then there is the truly terrible education system of the US. It is so embarrasing to see Americans try to discuss geography.
Well, it always is a case-by-case basis. Personally, I can pick out most any country on a map, except a few (I got a 99% on middle eastern geography, woohoo!)
But there do need to be improvements, but it's not that bad.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:31
I am. But I don't live in Germany.
Bloody EU...
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:31
1. If you havn't noticed, the past 20 or so years there have been more Women in Government and being able to do a lot of what men can do. ( And response to the guy talking about the stripper bars and porno shops etc, isn't it the females who came to the Managers of the Stripper Bars first and applied to rub up on a bar nude for 3 dollars a hour? ) Oh and yes a lot of Americans are for censorship, from the time period I have lived in Nebraska they have gotten rid of porn channels, and porn purchasing under heavy law ( 19 Years old to Purchase Porn, 18 to watch it...that part doesn't make so much sence ) And a lot of other states enforce " Must be 21 or older to watch/purchase porn. " And I mean come on! ITS THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE NO SELF ESTEEM THAT COME TO THESE INDUSTRYS AND CHOOSE TO HAVE SEX ON A VIDEO TAPE!

And those fundies need to shut up and stop denying me my freedom.

2. It isn't exactly " Elitism " its more like " Well hell, I'm not going to give some homeless person 20 dollars because he chose not to graduate from highschool "

Not all poor people are lazy.

3. Yea, like Europe doesn't have its problems here? If you're leg is soooo bad that it is going to just " fall " off you're hip, you would get surgery on it even if you couldn't afford it. Its called " Wellfare " ( Which I really dislike, cuz its a drain of good tax dollars that could actually go to real HEALTHCARE ) and also, they are just put in debt. And yes, even I would help someone with getting money if they needed it for something like this, so would a lot of other Conservatives ( despite popular belief )

And you can't easily get out of debt if you are poor.

4. Yea, but don't forget companys like McDonalds is international, not just for America only. And Americans ARE so free that there allowed to get fat, without there government up there asses saying " LOSE WEIGHT!!! "

And yet they have lower standards of living. That is what I am criticizing.

5. Yes, we are verry free. Thank you for noticing But, where do you get the " ...I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore... " Is it because...oh lets say, you like to listen to Liberal propaganda a bit to much?

There isn't much liberal propaganda to listen to in the US, unless you count those newstations that praise US actions but aren't Foxnews liberal.

7. Now I think they go to far with Gay Marriage. Marriage is strictly, by law and religion, defined as a union between a man and a woman. Now, I think making something else for Gay marriage would be better then a all out ban. So the couple can recieve the same bennifits a straight couple would get, like Life insurance for example. And you have to admit, lots of other European countrys make a lot of stupid laws. ( Ok, Asia is feeling a bit lonely....so does Asia )

I don't give a shit about whether fundies want to impose their morality on the rest of us!
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:32
I don't give a shit about whether fundies want to impose their morality on the rest of us!
who the fuck is imposing anything on you? you are so full of shit with your victim mentality you are just looking for something to let it out on. ohh bo hoo little liberal cant handle not seeing boobies on her tv for 1 second.
Militant Protestants
15-02-2005, 00:32
Your attitude toward the United States demonstrates the same elitism that you abhor in our own country. Let's examine history and current U.S. policy and perhaps we'll see a clearer picture of what the United States is truly like...

Foreign Policy

1. The U.S. saves Western Europe from German imperialism in 1917 after the Russians bowed out of the war. President Woodrow Wilson selflessly tries to mediate a peaceful solution which would not require war reparations to be made.

2. Again, the U.S. saves Western Europe from German domination. This time, most of Europe (save for the British and Fascist Spain and Portugal) fall under the dominion of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. The U.S. liberates millions of people from this tyranny.

3. The U.S. fights (Sometimes openly, sometimes covertly, sometimes diplomatically) against Communism worldwide in various and sundry places such as France, Greece, Italy, West Germany, South Korea, Afghanistan, and Vietnam. This happens for over 50 years and at the end of the Cold War, the United States along with the covert assistance of the Vatican helps to liberate hundreds of millions of Eastern Europeans from the throes of Communism.

4. The U.S. liberates Kuwait from Iraqi aggression and then aids the Bosnians against Serb aggression and then the U.S. defends Kosovo from Serb aggression again.

5. Following the 9/11 attacks, the U.S. obliterates Al-Qaeda and liberates millions in Afghanistan. Shortly thereafter, another 30 million Muslims are liberated in Iraq following the brutal regime of Saddam Hussein.

Domestic Policy

1. Americans are divided over domestic policy.

2. Americans want their leaders to preserve marriage from those that would seek to fundamentally change the definition of marriage. Furthermore, in Scandanavian countries where gay marriage is legalized, there is a higher incidence of divorce, low birth rates, and other factors associated with the self-suicide that Western Europe is perpetrated upon itself.

3. Americans do not believe in an elitism associated with wealth. Many of the wealthiest Americans were at one time dirt poor. (e.g. Bill Gates).

4. American health care is the best in the world. When foreign dignitaries get sick or need treatment for cancer or any other ailment, they generally come to the United States to be treated in our hospitals. Socialized health-care has proven to be a disaster wherever it is implicated. Canadians seeking elective surgery usually have to wait months and months to actually get the surgery they need. This is the reason why so many Canadians come south to the United States to receive the medical attention they need.

5. U.S. proclamations of its own freedom are not empty boasts. Rather, they are an incubator of freedom abroad and a reminder of what we need to be fighting for at home.

6. Sexism? Honestly, that's silly. According to radical feminism, sexism is not allowing men and women to be the same. The basic arguments goes like this... "You won't allow women in combat... therefore you are a sexist." However, this is a poor argument when you consider biology and the way things actually are. Men and women are different, they are not the same and they have different gifts and talents.

7. Every country has stupid laws. Too many laws in the United States enlarge the size of government at the expense of economic and personal freedom, but that's the state of the world these days. You can't necessarily blame the United States solely for dumb laws.

All right that's it for now. I can take the heat
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:33
you wouldent exist with your opulent, condescending, arrogant lifestyle thats for sure.

Well technically, if you want to be pendantic, you actually wouldn't exist without Europe seeing as all the Americans came from Europe. Please note I am not going to try and get into an argument about which country is more essential, but you also have to accept that your country is not the amazing savour of the world.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:33
While Eva is a most excellent show, it's not exactly for kids...

And it doesn't bother you that it is illegal to show on American TV? I thought the US was supposed to be much freer than Japan.

And, yes, I do have to say that there are some things little kids shouldn't have to worry about for now. Just let 'em be happy.

Fuck inauthenticity. Deception is not a good thing.

Well, it always is a case-by-case basis. Personally, I can pick out most any country on a map, except a few (I got a 99% on middle eastern geography, woohoo!)
But there do need to be improvements, but it's not that bad.

But on average, the US has a very bad education system.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:35
There isn't much liberal propaganda to listen to in the US

Let's see...Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Eugene Genovese, Louis Farrakhan...need I continue?
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:35
Bloody EU...
Whats that supposed to mean?
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:35
dude u totally rock these other countrys would be nothing with out the U.S those pussy bastards allways asking for money and yet they steal complain and when they go to war with another country and there getting there ass kicked who is the first country they call for help it sure is not japan its us THe united freaken states and all they can do is complain all i can say is all the other countrys that "hate the U.S" find something better to do . :mp5:

Why can't you try to be patriotic without being completly agressive to every other country?
Eutrusca
15-02-2005, 00:35
Letila: "Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive."

Eutrusca: Actually, most of us don't think the average person from almost any country "hates" us at all, only some of the alleged leadership and most of their media seem to though. In what way is the US "too capitalist" and "two [sic] oppressive?"

"1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is."

Some proof of this would be nice, since one of the things most discussed on here is abortion, which wouldn't be the case if the US were as nearly "sexually repressed" as you alledge.

"2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations."

This is utter nonsense and I have no intention of lending it credence by deigning to respond.

"3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so)."

Almost every hospital in the US is required to treat emergency cases when they come into the Emergency Room, regardless of "ability to pay."

"4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know."

It's due to a wide variety of factors, such as obesity, lack of exercise, etc. One of the costs of freedom is that some people make unwise choices.

"5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore."

No one is forcing you to read/listen/pay attention to any propaganda. I haven't noticed any dimuation of freedom since the first time I began to understand what the term meant, probalbly about 1948.

"6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world."

No, what the relatively small number of women in public office shows is that either they choose not to run, or they don't get elected. The Senior Senator from North Carolina ( A "red" State! ), Elizabeth Dole, was elected over a man, just for your information.

"7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws."

If that's what the people want, yes. Based on the results of the last election, one would have to assume that is what they want. It's called "democracy." Perhaps you should look it up.

"Of course, people are going to invariably post 'It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc.' That does not excuse anything!"

Quite frankly, I couldn't give a rat's ass less whether the US is "better" or "worse" than any other nation on the face of the Earth, nor do I seek "excuses" for anything a free people decide. You mention "elitism" yet are pretty obviously indulging in elitiist attitudes yourself.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 00:35
dude u totally rock these other countrys would be nothing with out the U.S those pussy bastards allways asking for money and yet they steal complain and when they go to war with another country and there getting there ass kicked who is the first country they call for help it sure is not japan its us THe united freaken states and all they can do is complain all i can say is all the other countrys that "hate the U.S" find something better to do . :mp5:
perfect example of why America gets a bad reputation
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:36
Well technically, if you want to be pendantic, you actually wouldn't exist without Europe seeing as all the Americans came from Europe. Please note I am not going to try and get into an argument about which country is more essential, but you also have to accept that your country is not the amazing savour of the world.
I never said it was the "savour" (which must be french for something) of the world, I said your arrogant existence would be impossible without it. Try and deny it.

perfect example of why America gets a bad reputation
Too bad hes right.
Andaluciae
15-02-2005, 00:37
And it doesn't bother you that it is illegal to show on American TV? I thought the US was supposed to be much freer than Japan.
It doesn't really bother me as long as it's after a certain hour.



Fuck inauthenticity. Deception is not a good thing.
Sometimes it's a healthy thing.



But on average, the US has a very bad education system.
Not as bad as you'd portray it as.

I have to go now. The evening meal calleth
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:37
But on average, the US has a very bad education system.

It wasn't always that way. Prior to the federal government's intervention in education, we had one of the best education systems in the world. Read, for example, The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt (who worked in the Department of Education), and None Dare Call it Education by John Stormer.
Pyromanstahn
15-02-2005, 00:38
I never said it was the "savour" (which must be french for something) of the world, I said your arrogant existence would be impossible without it. Try and deny it.


Look, our existance would be impossible without you, and your existance would be impossible without us. Everyone happy now?
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:39
Foreign Policy

1. The U.S. saves Western Europe from German imperialism in 1917 after the Russians bowed out of the war. President Woodrow Wilson selflessly tries to mediate a peaceful solution which would not require war reparations to be made.

2. Again, the U.S. saves Western Europe from German domination. This time, most of Europe (save for the British and Fascist Spain and Portugal) fall under the dominion of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. The U.S. liberates millions of people from this tyranny.

3. The U.S. fights (Sometimes openly, sometimes covertly, sometimes diplomatically) against Communism worldwide in various and sundry places such as France, Greece, Italy, West Germany, South Korea, Afghanistan, and Vietnam. This happens for over 50 years and at the end of the Cold War, the United States along with the covert assistance of the Vatican helps to liberate hundreds of millions of Eastern Europeans from the throes of Communism.

4. The U.S. liberates Kuwait from Iraqi aggression and then aids the Bosnians against Serb aggression and then the U.S. defends Kosovo from Serb aggression again.

5. Following the 9/11 attacks, the U.S. obliterates Al-Qaeda and liberates millions in Afghanistan. Shortly thereafter, another 30 million Muslims are liberated in Iraq following the brutal regime of Saddam Hussein.

I take it you are unaware of the numerous military dictatorships supported by the US in the "defence of freedom from commies".

2. Americans want their leaders to preserve marriage from those that would seek to fundamentally change the definition of marriage. Furthermore, in Scandanavian countries where gay marriage is legalized, there is a higher incidence of divorce, low birth rates, and other factors associated with the self-suicide that Western Europe is perpetrated upon itself.

Proof? That sounds to me like the standard reactionary argument against sexual freedom.

3. Americans do not believe in an elitism associated with wealth. Many of the wealthiest Americans were at one time dirt poor. (e.g. Bill Gates).

And many hard working Americans are still dirt poor.

4. American health care is the best in the world. When foreign dignitaries get sick or need treatment for cancer or any other ailment, they generally come to the United States to be treated in our hospitals. Socialized health-care has proven to be a disaster wherever it is implicated. Canadians seeking elective surgery usually have to wait months and months to actually get the surgery they need. This is the reason why so many Canadians come south to the United States to receive the medical attention they need.

I would rather have poor healthcare than none at all.

5. U.S. proclamations of its own freedom are not empty boasts. Rather, they are an incubator of freedom abroad and a reminder of what we need to be fighting for at home.

And yet we lack so much freedom still.

6. Sexism? Honestly, that's silly. According to radical feminism, sexism is not allowing men and women to be the same. The basic arguments goes like this... "You won't allow women in combat... therefore you are a sexist." However, this is a poor argument when you consider biology and the way things actually are. Men and women are different, they are not the same and they have different gifts and talents.

Fuck biological determinism. Europe doesn't believe that bullshit.
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:39
Look, our existance would be impossible without you, and your existance would be impossible without us. Everyone happy now?
Except im not talking about how much i hate europe. I can acknowledge its importance, even if I hate the people from it.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 00:40
Too bad hes right.
in what way?
Von Witzleben
15-02-2005, 00:40
Look, our existance would be impossible without you, and your existance would be impossible without us. Everyone happy now?
So you believe the world stop spinning if the US sank into the ocean over night? :D *get's all warm and fuzzy at the thought*
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:41
in what way?
Look at history. Germany invades, europe squeals for help. We bail them out, giving them trillians of dollars to rebuild, then 50 years later spit on us and stab us in the back. Its the nature of your beast.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:41
It wasn't always that way. Prior to the federal government's intervention in education, we had one of the best education systems in the world. Read, for example, The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America by Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt (who worked in the Department of Education), and None Dare Call it Education by John Stormer.

So we should privatize education? How will poor people afford it, then?

It doesn't really bother me as long as it's after a certain hour.

It isn't allowed after a certain hour, though.

Sometimes it's a healthy thing.

Lying is healthy?

Not as bad as you'd portray it as.

Oh really?
31
15-02-2005, 00:42
Those who hold up Europe as a model superior to the US, those who embrace the nanny states that exist there always, always fail to mention that those nations where able to create such systems because they did not have to devote money to defense budgets. And why is this? Because of stability that was acheived when the US and the USSR imposed it upon them. Europe, who cheerfully led us into the two worst wars the world has ever known now claims to be the leader of peace and culture because they have benifited from a system that we imposed on them.
We and the Soviets both in our own way realized that Europe had made more trouble in the last century than anyone else. So we, each in our own way, clamped down on Europe and turned it into the military and politically irrelevant place it is today.
The US is better than anywhere in Europe because we had the forsight to remove you from the world picture. The only people who really believe Europe matters anymore are Europeans. The rest of the world knows to smile and nod when European leaders talk about what they should do, smile, nod and ignore them because Europe has no teeth.
Remember, we Americans know you largely hate us and we don't give a damn because you don't matter anymore.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:42
So we should privatize education? How will poor people afford it, then?

I never said that. I think it should be turned over to state and local governments.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 00:43
Look at history. Germany invades, europe squeals for help. We bail them out, giving them trillians of dollars to rebuild, then 50 years later spit on us and stab us in the back. Its the nature of your beast.
its also not entirely true
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:43
1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!


Élitism- OK this is a free enteprise system. Sure you dont get a great advantage if your poor, but you can still become rich based on your own merits. My dad was lower middle class and his mom and dad were making $15,000 a year (in the 50s) and now my dad became a buisnessman and sells baby products, started off small and worked his way up and now makes hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, owns his own small buisness, and just had his best year last year, almost making $1 million. Yes and its all because he worked hard. He wasn't any Bill Gates like nerd and its not like he diddn't diddnt have a life when he was a kid neither


Standards of Living-Yea maybee if we could stop fucking up our own bodies and cut doen on all the Burger King and McDonalds we'ed be fine and not all die of heart disease.

Propaganda- Yea alittle over the top but thats just because Freedom is what the US was founded on.

Sexism-Ok here it comes: IRAQ IRAN JAPAN CHINA AND ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD BESIDES SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE MORE SEXIST THAN THE USA!!! :)
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:43
Those who hold up Europe as a model superior to the US, those who embrace the nanny states that exist there always, always fail to mention that those nations where able to create such systems because they did not have to devote money to defense budgets. And why is this? Because of stability that was acheived when the US and the USSR imposed it upon them. Europe, who cheerfully led us into the two worst wars the world has ever known now claims to be the leader of peace and culture because they have benifited from a system that we imposed on them.
We and the Soviets both in our own way realized that Europe had made more trouble in the last century than anyone else. So we, each in our own way, clamped down on Europe and turned it into the military and politically irrelevant place it is today.
The US is better than anywhere in Europe because we had the forsight to remove you from the world picture. The only people who really believe Europe matters anymore are Europeans. The rest of the world knows to smile and nod when European leaders talk about what they should do, smile, nod and ignore them because Europe has no teeth.
Remember, we Americans know you largely hate us and we don't give a damn because you don't matter anymore.
:fluffle:
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:43
Those who hold up Europe as a model superior to the US, those who embrace the nanny states that exist there always, always fail to mention that those nations where able to create such systems because they did not have to devote money to defense budgets. And why is this? Because of stability that was acheived when the US and the USSR imposed it upon them. Europe, who cheerfully led us into the two worst wars the world has ever known now claims to be the leader of peace and culture because they have benifited from a system that we imposed on them.
We and the Soviets both in our own way realized that Europe had made more trouble in the last century than anyone else. So we, each in our own way, clamped down on Europe and turned it into the military and politically irrelevant place it is today.
The US is better than anywhere in Europe because we had the forsight to remove you from the world picture. The only people who really believe Europe matters anymore are Europeans. The rest of the world knows to smile and nod when European leaders talk about what they should do, smile, nod and ignore them because Europe has no teeth.
Remember, we Americans know you largely hate us and we don't give a damn because you don't matter anymore.

And that somehow justifies your appalling attitude towards the poor, homosexuals, etc.?
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:44
its also not entirely true

Pretty tru for the entire 20th century. also other countries stabbed us in the back like Afghanistan
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 00:45
Pretty tru for the entire 20th century. also other countries stabbed us in the back like Afghanistan
*sigh*

im not getting into this argument for the nth time
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:45
I take it you are unaware of the numerous military dictatorships supported by the US in the "defence of freedom from commies".

Yeah, but the U.S. was also one of the biggest spreaders of communism in the world.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:46
Élitism- OK this is a free enteprise system. Sure you dont get a great advantage if your poor, but you can still become rich based on your own merits. My dad was lower middle class and his mom and dad were making $15,000 a year (in the 50s) and now my dad became a buisnessman and sells baby products, started off small and worked his way up and now makes hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, owns his own small buisness, and just had his best year last year, almost making $1 million. Yes and its all because he worked hard. He wasn't any Bill Gates like nerd and its not like he diddn't diddnt have a life when he was a kid neither

And I suppose you're now going to say that the poor are all lazy bums who enjoy going without good healthcare.

Propaganda- Yea alittle over the top but thats just because Freedom is what the US was founded on.

Sure, and that sexual repression is just a running joke.

Sexism-Ok here it comes: IRAQ IRAN JAPAN CHINA AND ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD BESIDES SOME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE MORE SEXIST THAN THE USA!!!

Read the first post.
Eutrusca
15-02-2005, 00:46
And that somehow justifies your appalling attitude towards the poor, homosexuals, etc.?

Letila, you live in your own little bubble of self-delusion and I have nothing else to say to you, particularly since I addressed every one of your alleged "points" against the US and got no response from you. Find a job or something, or are you one of the government-supported "poor" in your country? Either way, you have virtually no understanding of what the US is like or about, and arguing with you about it is the equivalent of having a gun-fight with an unarmed man.

Goodbye.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:47
u know what its all just jealousy because we are a superior nation (not offending friends of the U.S) and im sure we could all do without that fag Gorge bush in office i think it would make the world alot better


I dont like Bush but i dont think John Kerry or Howard Dean (YEEAAGGGGHHH HAHA what an idiot :p ) would do any better
imported_ViZion
15-02-2005, 00:48
I'm not gonna even try to bother reading the whole thing... here's how I see it (I'm American):

If you don't like American, that's fine. It's your view. I'm not gonna scream and yell and kick and cry because you don't like it. But I also think it's annoying that you go by stereo-typing American's and saying "Bush looks like a monkey!" Those two things are plain stupid. But hey, if you don't like America, fine... it'd be nice if you did, but it's not a huge deal to me.

If you don't like Americans, the people, well, I garantee you that you're stereo-typing us. You can't just do a blanket "I hate all American's because of XXXXX reasons", that's annoying and childish. But likely it you take up that position without opening up your eyes and seeing what's really there, you're not gonna change your view, even though it's ignorant.

I do urge you, though, to open your eyes, and if you can, take a trip to America. Not just NYC, or just LA, or just Washington DC, or just a region of America. America is extremely, EXTREMELY diverse. You should do a cross-country visit. Meet people from, and see how things are done, in rural America in the south west, urban life in the NE, political views in the SE, business life in the NW, and family values in the mid west. Trust me, if you're willing to open up your eyes, not be ignorant, and see what America is truly like, you cannot hate all of America, or all of its people. Ya, some things really are crappy in the American society, but every society, every country, has its problems. No country or people are perfect. This is Earth. We're humans. It's life.

Open your eyes and see before you talk. Thanks. :D
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:48
Letila, you live in your own little bubble of self-delusion and I have nothing else to say to you, particularly since I addressed every one of your alleged "points" against the US and got no response from you. Find a job or something, or are you one of the government-supported "poor" in your country? Either way, you have virtually no understanding of what the US is like or about and arguing with you about it is the equivalent of having a gun-fight with an unarmed man.

Where did you address my points? I didn't see them.
Bunnyducks
15-02-2005, 00:49
Letila...Find a job or something, or are you one of the government-supported "poor" in your country? Either way, you have virtually no understanding of what the US is like or about, and arguing with you about it is the equivalent of having a gun-fight with an unarmed man.

Goodbye.
Damn! I thought he IS from the USA.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:49
And I suppose you're now going to say that the poor are all lazy bums who enjoy going without good healthcare.



Sure, and that sexual repression is just a running joke.



Read the first post.

Quote 1- Nope not really, i said they dont get a good advantage but it is possible to become rich

Quote 3- Yeah already saw that but most of the world is (as I just said) more sexist than the USA. (at least up here in Connecticut it isnt sexist; dont know about the rest of the US)
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:50
Quote 1- Nope not really, i said they dont get a good advantage but it is possible to become rich

And that means all poor people are lazy bums?

Quote 3- Yeah already saw that but most of the world is (as I just said) more sexist than the USA

And that excuses American sexism?
Westemnet
15-02-2005, 00:51
Where did you address my points? I didn't see them.
Letila youre basically done, just shut up and take your america hating monkey antics elsewhere, you're so full of shit thats its embarassing watching you post because all you can do is hate hate hate. I only reply in kind to your vitriol soaked abortion of a post.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:52
I'm not gonna even try to bother reading the whole thing... here's how I see it (I'm American):

If you don't like American, that's fine. It's your view. I'm not gonna scream and yell and kick and cry because you don't like it. But I also think it's annoying that you go by stereo-typing American's and saying "Bush looks like a monkey!" Those two things are plain stupid. But hey, if you don't like America, fine... it'd be nice if you did, but it's not a huge deal to me.

If you don't like Americans, the people, well, I garantee you that you're stereo-typing us. You can't just do a blanket "I hate all American's because of XXXXX reasons", that's annoying and childish. But likely it you take up that position without opening up your eyes and seeing what's really there, you're not gonna change your view, even though it's ignorant.

I do urge you, though, to open your eyes, and if you can, take a trip to America. Not just NYC, or just LA, or just Washington DC, or just a region of America. America is extremely, EXTREMELY diverse. You should do a cross-country visit. Meet people from, and see how things are done, in rural America in the south west, urban life in the NE, political views in the SE, business life in the NW, and family values in the mid west. Trust me, if you're willing to open up your eyes, not be ignorant, and see what America is truly like, you cannot hate all of America, or all of its people. Ya, some things really are crappy in the American society, but every society, every country, has its problems. No country or people are perfect. This is Earth. We're humans. It's life.

Open your eyes and see before you talk. Thanks. :D

Nice :)
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:53
Letila youre basically done, just shut up and take your america hating monkey antics elsewhere, you're so full of shit thats its embarassing watching you post because all you can do is hate hate hate. I only reply in kind to your vitriol soaked abortion of a post.

Is your empire so weak that a mere red such as myself can hurt your feelings? As long as the US continues to oppress me and women, homosexuals, the poor, etc., I will continue to hate it.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:55
Is your empire so weak that a mere red such as myself can hurt your feelings? As long as the US continues to oppress me and women, homosexuals, the poor, etc., I will continue to hate it.

If the U.S. was really as 'oppressive' as you suggest, you'd probably be languishing in a dungeon right now. Yes, the U.S. has its faults- plenty, plenty of them- but it's far from the totalitarian police state you portray it as.
Letila
15-02-2005, 00:57
If the U.S. was really as 'oppressive' as you suggest, you'd probably be languishing in a dungeon right now. Yes, the U.S. has its faults- plenty, plenty of them- but it's far from the totalitarian police state you portray it as.

I hear that one all time. I never said it was totalitarian.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 00:58
:upyours: :upyours: And that means all poor people are lazy bums?



And that excuses American sexism?

You fuck-witted moron. first, yuo just repeated yourself again, i said they arent lazy bums, the whole fuckin world has always been sexist and now it isn't barely is exept in some stupid assholes who are either pissed off because they are ugly and cant score or are just pricks. You are the most idiotic dick i ever heard talk. Please shut the fuck up, turn off your computer, throw that shit out, calm the fuck down, maybee you have a little PMS going (no im not sexist but your pissing me off) and go to hell. :upyours:
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:59
Is your empire so weak that a mere red such as myself can hurt your feelings? As long as the US continues to oppress me and women, homosexuals, the poor, etc., I will continue to hate it.

If we're an empire, where are our overseas territories (besides Guam and Puerto Rico, which are part of the U.S.)? Where are our colonies in Africa or Asia? Where are our huge fiefs in the Third World where starving people are forced to slavishly work for our gain?
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 00:59
I hear that one all time. I never said it was totalitarian.

I never said you did. It seemed to me (again, this is just me) that you were implying it.
Crapshaiths
15-02-2005, 00:59
2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

Whose fault is it when someone is poor in America if not there own?
31
15-02-2005, 01:03
And that somehow justifies your appalling attitude towards the poor, homosexuals, etc.?

Justify? Justify? To who? You? We don't need to justify anything. You sit in judgement of all us poor Americans, well, I'm just trembling with fear of what your or Europes judgement might mean. :rolleyes:
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:05
Eutrusca: Actually, most of us don't think the average person from almost any country "hates" us at all, only some of the alleged leadership and most of their media seem to though. In what way is the US "too capitalist" and "two [sic] oppressive?"

Hmm, good point.

Some proof of this would be nice, since one of the things most discussed on here is abortion, which wouldn't be the case if the US were as nearly "sexually repressed" as you alledge.

Abortion isn't even contraversial in many first world nations. The nudity allowed in European commercials is proof enough for me.

This is utter nonsense and I have no intention of lending it credence by deigning to respond.

I see it all the time.

Almost every hospital in the US is required to treat emergency cases when they come into the Emergency Room, regardless of "ability to pay."

And you end up in debt for the rest of your life.

No one is forcing you to read/listen/pay attention to any propaganda. I haven't noticed any dimuation of freedom since the first time I began to understand what the term meant, probalbly about 1948.

The US hasn't gained new freedom as fast as many other nations.

No, what the relatively small number of women in public office shows is that either they choose not to run, or they don't get elected. The Senior Senator from North Carolina ( A "red" State! ), Elizabeth Dole, was elected over a man, just for your information.

Ah yes, because women are inexplicably more subservient in the US than in Europe.

If that's what the people want, yes. Based on the results of the last election, one would have to assume that is what they want. It's called "democracy." Perhaps you should look it up.

And so I should suffer for the desires of the Religious Wrong?

Whose fault is it when someone is poor in America if not there own?

The system's when it is a hierarchial system.

If we're an empire, where are our overseas territories (besides Guam and Puerto Rico, which are part of the U.S.)? Where are our colonies in Africa or Asia? Where are our huge fiefs in the Third World where starving people are forced to slavishly work for our gain?

Let's see, SWEATSHOPS!

You're lucky my internet connection is really bad or I'd be keeping up with all your posts. However, my connection limits me greatly, so I can't refute your posts as fast as I'd like.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:07
Let's see, SWEATSHOPS!

You're lucky my internet connection is really bad or I'd be keeping up with all your posts. However, my connection limits me greatly, so I can't refute your posts as fast as I'd like.

Let's see, SWEATSHOPS! are not the fault of the U.S. government, but of the governments of those countries, and, to a lesser degree, certain U.S. corporations.

Again, I'm dying to see your proof that we're an "empire."
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:07
Is your empire so weak that a mere red such as myself can hurt your feelings? As long as the US continues to oppress me and women, homosexuals, the poor, etc., I will continue to hate it.

Good for you. Go hate America in your own fucked up way somewhere else. Jesus, i heard people not like the US because our foreign policy but whoever the fuck you are you have the most twisted god-awful veiws of america in the world. Ossama Bin Laden likes the US more than you do
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:10
I never said you did. It seemed to me (again, this is just me) that you were implying it.

A nation can be oppressive without being totalitarian. In addition, the US has supported many dictatorships before (do some research on CIA activities in the Cold War to start).

Let's see, SWEATSHOPS! are not the fault of the U.S. government, but of the governments of those countries, and, to a lesser degree, certain U.S. corporations.

Again, I'm dying to see your proof that we're an "empire."

Look at the dictatorships supported by the US in the Cold War. That is imperialism in disguise.
Jarridia
15-02-2005, 01:10
Letila, Here are the main flaws I see in your entire argument. First off, it is really impossible, and quite ignorant for you to say that you hate America because it's too capitalist. That is like saying, 'I hate the middle east for being to muslim' or 'I hate France for being too European.' I guess it's all a matter of preference, but you should readjust your focal points on why you hate things.

Now, about the United States being oppressive. We still are the only nation that has the extreme amounts of freedoms that we do, and don't start arguing with me about, because it's true. No other nation in the world has the vast amount of freedom of speech, religion, press and assembly that we do. No other nation has the ideas of how trials should be conducted, like we do. The United States is considered to have the only democracy in the world, even though it really isn't a democracy. Many nations have tried to mimick our constitution, but still lack the ability to fully give the rights that we have as Americans. Yes, since the ignorant George W. Bush took over, some of our freedoms have been slashed for safety, and I do see that as a frightful thing. As Benjamin Franklin said 'Those willing to give up liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.' This statement rings quite true, and is why I disagree with most of the things Bush has done.

What you need to understand is that many nations are jealous of what the US has. We are a vast nation, that has many programs and lots of money to take care of our needs, and we do that while having an economic system that isn't known for catering to the small people.

The problem with the world is that everyone hates someone else for what they believe, like you. I don't hate whatever country you're from, even if they are socialist, communist, or an immerging republic. I don't hate your country if all of your healthcare is ruled by the government, or if its ok to have sex in the middle of the street. I honestly don't care about how you conduct your life. Would I like to better understand your culture? Of course. I have travelled to many, many places (Europe, Australia and China) several times, and I enjoyed every second of it. I treat everything with respect, and thats how I expect to be treated. When I go to Europe and see "Fuck America" or 'Down with America' carved everywhere, it really hurts, because I am there trying to better understand Europeans, and I'm trying to respect their countries, and their culture, yet I am being disrespected at the utmost.

Personally, I wouldn't like if the government paid for everything, I don't want that much regulation in my life. I am proud to call myself an American. For me, it is a wonderful thing to tell people, even if they are going to bash me soon after. I love my country and I love my state. Afterall, I am a Texan, and there is no place in the US better than Texas.

On a final note, I would like to say that you are always free to have your opinion, and I have no right to tell you otherwise, just like you can't tell me what I can and can't do. That is the basis of the American Constitution, isn't it grand?
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:11
A nation can be oppressive without being totalitarian. In addition, the US has supported many dictatorships before (do some research on CIA activities in the Cold War to start).



Look at the dictatorships supported by the US in the Cold War. That is imperialism in disguise.

Did we control those nations? No. Yes, many of them were heavily dependent on us, but they weren't our colonies.
31
15-02-2005, 01:12
Your hospital information is wrong. I entered the hospital on the edge of death. I suffer from Crohns disease. I was in the hospital for a month, didn't have ajob in the states before then, had about 300.00 in the bank. (I am an English teacher in Japan) . I was completely taken care of. They performed surgery, removed 15cm of my small intestine. Everything was paid for by the state. I own no money. I will never have to pay for the treatment. This service is available to all citizens in California who have less than 2000.00 in the bank.
Damn America is evil and doesn't take care of anyone. I'm dead and don't know it.
Salutus
15-02-2005, 01:13
:upyours: :upyours:

You fuck-witted moron. first, yuo just repeated yourself again, i said they arent lazy bums, the whole fuckin world has always been sexist and now it isn't barely is exept in some stupid assholes who are either pissed off because they are ugly and cant score or are just pricks. You are the most idiotic dick i ever heard talk. Please shut the fuck up, turn off your computer, throw that shit out, calm the fuck down, maybee you have a little PMS going (no im not sexist but your pissing me off) and go to hell. :upyours:

*sheds a tear*

beautiful.
Miss Mary
15-02-2005, 01:13
I will bet that someone is just mad because their country is worse than ours and we dont need to listen to corrupt counter-productive organizations like the UN. And that we are better. And we are cooler. And we still have morals. And we are better. Also we do more good in the direction of foriegn policy than anyone ....why dont we all juse accept America=world Hedgemon
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:13
Now, about the United States being oppressive. We still are the only nation that has the extreme amounts of freedoms that we do, and don't start arguing with me about, because it's true. No other nation in the world has the vast amount of freedom of speech, religion, press and assembly that we do. No other nation has the ideas of how trials should be conducted, like we do. The United States is considered to have the only democracy in the world, even though it really isn't a democracy. Many nations have tried to mimick our constitution, but still lack the ability to fully give the rights that we have as Americans. Yes, since the ignorant George W. Bush took over, some of our freedoms have been slashed for safety, and I do see that as a frightful thing. As Benjamin Franklin said 'Those willing to give up liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.' This statement rings quite true, and is why I disagree with most of the things Bush has done.

Bullshit! Haven't you heard of the patriot act, laws against gay marriage and pot, Pinochet and Kissinger, COINTELPRO, etc.? I suggest you check this link out: COINTELPRO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)
Bobs Own Pipe
15-02-2005, 01:16
I will bet that someone is just mad because their country is worse than ours and we dont need to listen to corrupt counter-productive organizations like the UN. And that we are better. And we are cooler. And we still have morals. And we are better. Also we do more good in the direction of foriegn policy than anyone ....why dont we all juse accept America=world Hedgemon

I'm not sure which is more galling - your advancement of America as World Hegemon, or the fact that you're advancing it whilst being incapable of spelling it. I'm sure you're in good company, nonetheless...
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:16
A nation can be oppressive without being totalitarian. In addition, the US has supported many dictatorships before (do some research on CIA activities in the Cold War to start).



Look at the dictatorships supported by the US in the Cold War. That is imperialism in disguise.

Yeah we set up dictators as leaders in countries to stop the flow of Communism, which at the time was a much greater threat than Terroism. Saddam and Osama were set up to lead the (then-allies) against the Russians and Iranians and it worked out well. So we just had to take them back out because thay stabbed us in the back
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:17
COINTELPRO
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
COINTELPRO is an acronym ('COunter INTELligence PROgram') for a program of the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation aimed at attacking dissident political organizations within the United States. Although covert operations have been employed throughout FBI history, the formal COINTELPRO's of 1956-1971 were broadly targeted against organizations that were (at the time) considered politically radical, such as Martin Luther King Jr.'s Southern Christian Leadership Conference.

Background
The origins of COINTELPRO were rooted in the Bureau's operations against hostile foreign intelligence services. Counterintelligence, of course, goes beyond investigation; it refers to actions taken to neutralize enemy agents. "Counterintelligence" was a misnomer for the FBI programs, since the targets were American political dissidents, not foreign spies. In the atmosphere of the Cold War, the American Communist Party was seen as a serious threat to national security. Over the years, anti-Communist paranoia extended to civil rights, anti-war, and many other groups.

The FBI addressed the threats from the militant New Left as it had those from Communists in the 1950s and the Ku Klux Klan in the 1960s. It used both traditional investigative techniques and counterintelligence programs (Cointelpro) to counteract domestic terrorism and conduct investigations of individuals and organizations who threatened terroristic violence. Wiretapping and other intrusive techniques were discouraged by J. Edgar Hoover, FBI Director in the mid-1960s, and eventually were forbidden completely unless they conformed to the Omnibus Crime Control Act. Director Hoover formally terminated all "Cointelpro" operations on April 28, 1971.

"And for the FBI, as recently as the 1960s and the 1970s, we were found to have run a counterintelligence program, infamously known as COINTELPRO, that targeted persons involved in civil disobedience with investigative measures that crossed the line."
-- Robert Mueller, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation at the Stanford Law School, October 18, 2002

History
The program was initially targeted at the Communist Party, USA (CPUSA). After its initial success, it was expanded to include many other organizations. Some of the largest COINTELPROs targeted the Socialist Worker's Party, the "New Left" (including several anti-war groups such as the Students for a Democratic Society and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee), Black Liberation groups such as the Black Panthers, Puerto Rican independence groups, the American Indian Movement and the Weather Underground. There were also attacks against other organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan (with whom the FBI sometimes collaborated in other COINTELPROs).

The program was secret until 1971, when an FBI field office was burglarized by a group of radicals calling themselves the Citizens' Commission to Investigate the FBI. Several dossiers of files were taken and the information passed to news agencies. Within the year, Director Hoover declared that the centralized COINTELPRO was over, and that all future counterintelligence operations would be handled on a case-by-case basis. He did not promise that the FBI would stop using COINTELPRO tactics.

Further documents were revealed in the course of separate lawsuits filed against the FBI by NBC correspondent Carl Stern and by the SWP, and in 1976 by the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities of the United States Senate, commonly referred to as the "Church Committee" for its chairman, Senator Frank Church of Idaho. However, millions of pages of documents remain unreleased, and many released documents are entirely censored.

The Church Committee documented a history of the FBI being used for purposes of political repression as far back as World War I, through the 1920s, when they were charged with rounding up "anarchists and revolutionaries" for deportation, and then building from 1936 through 1976.

The FBI claims that it no longer undertakes COINTELPRO or COINTELPRO-like operations. However, critics claim that agency programs in the spirit of COINTELPRO target groups like the Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador and the Anti-Globalization Movement.

Methods
The COINTELPROs used a broad array of methods, including:

Infiltration: Both by informants and agents provocateur, who would waste time, sabotage campaigns, suggest or carry out dangerous, illegal, or divisive activities, or seduce and blackmail leaders.
Intimidation: Sending threatening letters and packages, breaking and entering into houses and offices, etc.
Propaganda: Feeding damaging information to friendly journalists, writing anonymous leaflets against organizations, or writing damaging leaflets or letters claiming to be from the organization.
Framing: Framing activists for crimes which the FBI committed, prosecuting them for genuine crimes they didn't commit, or "bad-jacketing," planting falsified documents or other "evidence" which made it appear that they were FBI informants.
Lawsuit harassment: Tying up organizations or individuals in court with frivolous prosecution of every possible offense, real or imagined.
Murder: Directly assassinating or hiring rival groups to assassinate prominent leaders.

References
Assault on the Left by James Kirkpatrick Davis (1997), chapters 1 and 8
The COINTELPRO Papers: Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars Against Dissent in the United States by Ward Churchill & Jim Vander Wall
Cointelpro, ed. by Cathy Perkus (New York: Vintage, 1976)

Yeah we set up dictators as leaders in countries to stop the flow of Communism, which at the time was a much greater threat than Terroism. Saddam and Osama were set up to lead the (then-allies) against the Russians and Iranians and it worked out well. So we just had to take them back out because thay stabbed us in the back

So you admit the US supported dictators? That is some freedom.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:17
*sheds a tear*

beautiful.

Thank you. I agree :)
Teh Cameron Clan
15-02-2005, 01:18
Wow Letila i couldnt have said it better myself lol
Jarridia
15-02-2005, 01:19
Bullshit! Haven't you heard of the patriot act, laws against gay marriage and pot, Pinochet and Kissinger, COINTELPRO, etc.? I suggest you check this link out: COINTELPRO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)

I think you should read my entire post before you start using immature wording to bash it. I said that we had given up freedoms lately because our ignorant leaders felt it is what was necessary. For what it is worth, I'm glad gay marriage is outlawed, because really, if you can't reproduce, it isn't marriage. GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT A REAL MARRIAGE! And concerning pot, I wouldn't want the majority of my society being controlled by potheads.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:20
So you admit the US supported dictators? That is some freedom.

Name me one country in history that didn't support dictators.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:22
Mmmmm weed....... :p

yeah gay marrage is stupid. im a homophobe
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:22
I think you should read my entire post before you start using immature wording to bash it. I said that we had given up freedoms lately because our ignorant leaders felt it is what was necessary. For what it is worth, I'm glad gay marriage is outlawed, because really, if you can't reproduce, it isn't marriage. GAY MARRIAGE IS NOT A REAL MARRIAGE! And concerning pot, I wouldn't want the majority of my society being controlled by potheads.

Oh god, do you believe that people who are infertile shouldn't get married, then?
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:23
Name me one country in history that didn't support dictators.

Two (or more) wrongs don't make a right.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:23
Two (or more) wrongs don't make a right.

Exactly. So why do you focus all your hated on the U.S., and not other countries?
Jarridia
15-02-2005, 01:24
Oh god, do you believe that people who are infertile shouldn't get married, then?


No, I just think that if one person doesn't have genitalia opposite of their partner, that it isn't right. I never want to see gays allowed to wed. It brings the entire structure of marriage down to nothingness. The reason you are having issues at all, is because you imply things to what I'm saying instead of looking at the facts.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:24
Oh god, do you believe that people who are infertile shouldn't get married, then?

That is completely beyond the point. marrage is between a man and a woman. being infertile has nothing to do with being gay
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:25
Exactly. So why do you focus all your hated on the U.S., and not other countries?

Because I don't see any Americans admitting that the US has done a lot of wrong.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:25
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!


First off, I am an American and I support Bush, now for the 20% of you still reading I'll begin my little rebutle
1)We Americans have nothing against sex, we just dont want it in full view of young children, there is nothing wrong with OUR morals, I dont start threads about wine given to children in europe because i dont think it's right but anyway...

2) If you are poor there are many options given to you, just not a get out of debt free card like all you liberals want, if someone is sucessful(rich) they are usally more responsible then the poor and are treated better

3)This has been answered enough

4)Why do you hate the U.S. becuase it's not the richest nation or has the highest standerd of living?

5)The whole U.S. land of the free thing has died out a LONG time ago, we dont have billboards in other notions it's all word of mouth which we cant control (freedom of speech)

6)We are trying our hardest to create equality between the sexes and we have improved dramaticly

7)What makes those laws stupid? because you dont agree with them? I dont believe in gay marrige :fluffle: or buttsex, but some do and laws can be changed which is a great part of the American legal system so "stupid laws" can be removed
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:26
Because I don't see any Americans admitting that the US has done a lot of wrong.

I have, on a number of occasions.
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:27
First off, I am an American and I support Bush, now for the 20% of you still reading I'll begin my little rebutle
1)We Americans have nothing against sex, we just dont want it in full view of young children, there is nothing wrong with OUR morals, I dont start threads about wine given to children in europe because i dont think it's right but anyway...

But what good reasons are there to be uptight about sex?

2) If you are poor there are many options given to you, just not a get out of debt free card like all you liberals want, if someone is sucessful(rich) they are usally more responsible then the poor and are treated better

Like what?

4)Why do you hate the U.S. becuase it's not the richest nation or has the highest standerd of living?

Because it claims to be so great.

6)We are trying our hardest to create equality between the sexes and we have improved dramaticly

And we are still decades behind some countries.
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:29
I have, on a number of occasions.

I certainly haven't. When I hear Fox News conceed that the US was wrong to support dictatorships in so many nations and that gay marriage and pot should be legal, I will stop hating the US.
Sex Panther
15-02-2005, 01:29
What country is the starter of this thread from, and if its a european counrty then this whole thing makes sense.
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:30
What country is the starter of this thread from, and if its a european counrty then this whole thing makes sense.

I live in the (American) Empire.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:30
Originally Posted by Letila
Because I don't see any Americans admitting that the US has done a lot of wrong.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME? EVERY DAY I HEAR THE SAME SHIT THAT "WE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THIS" OR "WE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT" IF WE DONT APPOLIGIZE FOR EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING WE DO ITS CONDEMNED EVEN THO IF WE DO ITS STILL CONDEMNED. "Oh we just just lost 3000 people in the 9/11 incidents....we deserved it though somehow because were the USA and are always interfering with the UN which hasnt made a god descision scince the early 1990s so were bad people. BULLSHIT!!!
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:31
First off, I am an American and I support Bush, now for the 20% of you still reading I'll begin my little rebutle


But what good reasons are there to be uptight about sex?



Like what?



Because it claims to be so great.



And we are still decades behind some countries.

As I said in our country sex in public veiw is not right, our MORALS but we are slowly geting more open, ever watch HBO? or even ads in mags all play on sex just not on the disney channel

we have welfare and job corps

we do like showing our wealth but so does every nation, and since when did SOL determin national wealth
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:32
From http://www.killinghope.com/

The U.S. bombing of Iraq, June 26, 1993, in retaliation for an alleged Iraqi plot to assassinate former president George Bush, "was essential," said President Clinton, "to send a message to those who engage in state-sponsored terrorism ... and to affirm the expectation of civilized behavior among nations." *

Following is a list of prominent foreign individuals whose assassination (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since the end of the Second World War. The list does not include several assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro Cubans employed by the CIA and headquartered in the United States.

1949 - Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader

1950s - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of numerous political figures in West Germany

1950s - Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life

1950s, 1962 - Sukarno, President of Indonesia

1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea

1953 - Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran

1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader

1955 - Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India

1957 - Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt

1959, 1963, 1969 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia

1960 - Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq

1950s-70s - José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life

1961 - Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier, leader of Haiti

1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire)

1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic

1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam

1960s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life

1960s - Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba

1965 - Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader

1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France

1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader

1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile

1970 - Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile

1970s, 1981 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama

1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence

1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire

1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica

1980-1986 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life

1982 - Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran

1983 - Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander

1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua

1984 - The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate

1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt)

1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq

1998, 2001-2 - Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant

1999 - Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia

Torture in Uruguay (http://members.aol.com/bblum6/uruguay.htm)
Ihlenfeldtland
15-02-2005, 01:32
Sorry, but you are SOL. In the US it is illegal to be denied medical service from any public hospital. Basically, if you show up at the ER with a broken leg, they must treat you (even if you can't pay for it, and they know you can't pay for it). Billions each year go to pay for people who can't pay their hospital bills.

I work at a Hospitol that last gave 38.5 million in free treatment. Don't tell me that you are SOL.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:33
First off, I am an American and I support Bush, now for the 20% of you still reading I'll begin my little rebutle



Diddnt you just say that Bush is a "monkey Buttfuck?"
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:34
I work at a Hospitol that last gave 38.5 million in free treatment. Don't tell me that you are SOL.

Do they do that everywhere?

As I said in our country sex in public veiw is not right, our MORALS but we are slowly geting more open, ever watch HBO? or even ads in mags all play on sex just not on the disney channel

HBO? In Europe, nudity occurs in commercials.

we have welfare and job corps

And what is happening to welfare?
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:35
Diddnt you just say that Bush is a "monkey Buttfuck?"

that was my qoute the I support bush thing not monkey buttsex or whatever
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:35
Originally Posted by Letila
Because I don't see any Americans admitting that the US has done a lot of wrong.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME? EVERY DAY I HEAR THE SAME SHIT THAT "WE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THIS" OR "WE SHOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT" IF WE DONT APPOLIGIZE FOR EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING WE DO ITS CONDEMNED EVEN THO IF WE DO ITS STILL CONDEMNED. "Oh we just just lost 3000 people in the 9/11 incidents....we deserved it though somehow because were the USA and are always interfering with the UN which hasnt made a god descision scince the early 1990s so were bad people. BULLSHIT!!!
well, to be fair, you had spent the last 40 years paying for the killing of many more than 3000 people, so when it comes round to bite you in the ass why are you so surprised?
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:36
that was my qoute the I support bush thing not monkey buttsex or whatever

Oh sorry i thought Letilla said that
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:37
well, to be fair, you had spent the last 40 years paying for the killing of many more than 3000 people, so when it comes round to bite you in the ass why are you so surprised?

Yeah and your not saying thot other people havent killed any americans in the last 40 years?
Brianetics
15-02-2005, 01:38
Justify? Justify? To who? You? We don't need to justify anything. You sit in judgement of all us poor Americans, well, I'm just trembling with fear of what your or Europes judgement might mean. :rolleyes:

Y'know, being fairly left of center, I agree with most if not all of the criticisms of my country put forth by the Europeans and other foreigners here. But I am disturbed by their vitriol and downright enthusiasm, as well as, as 31 points out, this bizarre attitude that somehow, we should be held to account to them because our own internal politics (we're not even talking about our international behavior here!) differ from theirs in ways which they find unacceptable. I truly hope this is just the result of their weariness at having to respond to the constant stream of propaganda our ultra-nationalist wackos spew at them, and not some unhealthy, obsessive belief that we owe them an explanation not being more like Europe (or worse, that Europe is some sort of gold standard against which all other Western countries should be judged). Surely, you're not just doing what too many Americans do, but in reverse -- focusing on a foreign country's perceived inadequecies in order to make yourselves feel superior?

Guys, Europe has its own political culture, and so does the U.S. This is not a crime. Repeat after me: "Western" doesn't have to mean "the same". So we don't like soccer. So we're a bit on the prudish side. So we never really embraced socialism. These are not things we have to "justify" to anyone, and most importantly, they are not things you need to concern yourselves with. Those of us who have a problem with some of these aspects of our culture and want to change them (well, except soccer... I make no apologies for that) are not going to be helped by your increasingly joyously hateful rhetoric.

And another thing, really, why are you so obsessed? The U.S. is nowhere near as powerful as it is so often made out to be by you guys. In virtually every area other than our military might -- the world economy, politics, the reach and appeal of American popular culture, "moral leadership" -- we've been losing ground for years, since at least the end of the cold war. And this process has sped up and become more noticeable during the Bush administration. Neocon triumphalism aside, this is the truth of the matter. So.. what gives? Our nutjob politicians invade one mideastern hellhole too many and you've gotta be experts on the FCC now?
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:39
Yeah and your not saying thot other people havent killed any americans in the last 40 years?
well, when 2000 of my countrymen are killed by a terrorist organisation paid for my American money, you can understand when im feeling a little bitter towards the US

and thats not to mention the oppressive regimes in South America that you propped up
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:40
I live in the (American) Empire.

Again, let's see some evidence that we're an 'empire.'
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:40
Guys, Europe has its own political culture, and so does the U.S. This is not a crime. Repeat after me: "Western" doesn't have to mean "the same". So we don't like soccer. So we're a bit on the prudish side. So we never really embraced socialism. These are not things we have to "justify" to anyone, and most importantly, they are not things you need to concern yourselves with. Those of us who have a problem with some of these aspects of our culture and want to change them (well, except soccer... I make no apologies for that) are not going to be helped by your increasingly joyously hateful rhetoric.

I pay for American prudishness and capitalism, though. It does hurt me.
Salutus
15-02-2005, 01:40
well letila, if you really hate this country so much, please leave. none of the sane people want to hear your self-righteous attention-seeking bullshit. you don't want to see nudity on HBO? cover your eyes. you don't like that the US went to Iraq? tough. you're not the only one. You don't like our history of foreign intervention? life's a bitch. do you honestly expect to be shielded from all that you dislike about the world? do you honestly expect the US to apologize for every wrong it has committed? nobody denies that we've done some wrong, but goddamn it we've done a helluva lot of good in the world. so please, if you REALLY dislike the 'American Empire' so much, get the hell out. personally, i think that people (like you) who are busy finding fault with the country that gives you so much when we are at WAR and could use a little unity are despicable pieces of shit. go to hell. :gundge: :gundge:
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:41
well, when 2000 of my countrymen are killed by a terrorist organisation paid for my American money, you can understand when im feeling a little bitter towards the US

and thats not to mention the oppressive regimes in South America that you propped up

What is the organization called and where are you from?
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:41
IF you think a 5 year old kid should see tits on a commercial on Nickelodeon just because a eurpean country does then 1) you are under 18 years old
and 2) get the hell out of the country i like and move to the one you love so much
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:42
Again, let's see some evidence that we're an 'empire.'

Do some basic research on the activities of the CIA and tell me that isn't imperialism.

well letila, if you really hate this country so much, please leave. none of the sane people want to hear your self-righteous attention-seeking bullshit. you don't want to see nudity on HBO? cover your eyes. you don't like that the US went to Iraq? tough. you're not the only one. You don't like our history of foreign intervention? life's a bitch. do you honestly expect to be shielded from all that you dislike about the world? do you honestly expect the US to apologize for every wrong it has committed? nobody denies that we've done some wrong, but goddamn it we've done a helluva lot of good in the world. so please, if you REALLY dislike the 'American Empire' so much, get the hell out. personally, i think that people (like you) who are busy finding fault with the country that gives you so much when we are at WAR and could use a little unity are despicable pieces of shit. go to hell

I will go to hell when I can actually afford a gun and ammo. Until then, I'm staying here.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:43
What is the organization called and where are you from?
its easy to divert your eyes left

the organisation is the IRA, and i live in Northern Ireland

and the 2000 killed doesnt include the tens of thousands injured (such as my mother, and one or two other members of my family), but it does include my dads cousin who i was very close with
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:43
Letilla i dont think that even liberals with the same political veiws as you agree with you.
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:43
get the hell out of the country i like and move to the one you love so much

I can't leave this country. The rest of the world hates me as much as Americans do.
United Danes
15-02-2005, 01:44
I pay for American prudishness and capitalism, though. It does hurt me.

I guess you would prefere a communist "love" state instead! :eek:
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:45
I guess you would prefere a communist "love" state instead!

I'm actually against all states, but I will take a freer state over a more oppressive one.

Letilla i dont think that even liberals with the same political veiws as you agree with you.

That's because I'm not a liberal.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:46
Well if you cant find a single country that fits your views then boo hoo go to the backwoods and become a hermit and live the life u want but stop FUCKING UP THE COUNTRY MY DAD DIED DEFENDING
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:47
its easy to divert your eyes left

the organisation is the IRA, and i live in Northern Ireland

and the 2000 killed doesnt include the tens of thousands injured (such as my mother, and one or two other members of my family), but it does include my dads cousin who i was very close with

Hey guess what, my uncle got killed in the 9/11 attacks and their saudi funded so i dont like the saudis.

isnt the IRA an anti catholic or anti protestant organization? i really diddnt know that they were funded by the US
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:48
Hey guess what, my uncle got killed in the 9/11 attacks and their saudi funded so i dont like the saudis.

isnt the IRA an anti catholic or anti protestant organization? i really diddnt know that they were funded by the US
anti British

and yes, 90% of their funding is American

im saying that when the US screws around with the world for 40 years it cant expect not to face some reprucusions(sp?)
Brianetics
15-02-2005, 01:50
I pay for American prudishness and capitalism, though. It does hurt me.

Uh.. I was addressing the Euros on this thread who don't live in the U.S. You seem to be a nationless communist who somehow wound up in the U.S., and may or may not BE an American ( :confused: ), so I don't believe my comments were intended to apply to you...
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:51
That's because I'm not a liberal.

I think you're leaning a little left. either that or your some kind of person that beleives that there are parts of the world where there si a happy-go-lucky utopia, where everyone has eternal life and shit like that
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:53
Im sorry but i have to know why all europeans with an internet coneection feel the need to tell everyone how much they hate the untied states like it will change Americans views and start a revolution
United Danes
15-02-2005, 01:53
I'm actually against all states, but I will take a freer state over a more oppressive one.

What is your definitions of "free"? Does this include the freedom of association, and if so how do you expect everyone to "just get along" as the liberals always keep endlessly talking about?
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:53
I think you're leaning a little left. either that or your some kind of person that beleives that there are parts of the world where there si a happy-go-lucky utopia, where everyone has eternal life and shit like that

I'm technically an anarcho-communist, really.

What is your definitions of "free"? Does this include the freedom of association, and if so how do you expect everyone to "just get along" as the liberals always keep endlessly talking about?

My definition of free should be obvious. Also, I am not a liberal.
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:54
I can't leave this country. The rest of the world hates me as much as Americans do.

I don't hate you. I disagree with you on everything, but you seem to be a good person.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:54
Im sorry but i have to know why all europeans with an internet coneection feel the need to tell everyone how much they hate the untied states like it will change Americans views and start a revolution
its mainly response to all the Americans with an internet connection coming on and telling everyone how their country is the best thing the world has ever known, and we should all feel inferior for not being American
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:54
anti British

and yes, 90% of their funding is American

im saying that when the US screws around with the world for 40 years it cant expect not to face some reprucusions(sp?)

so you think that the 9/11 attacks are alright?

we had a shitload of terrorist attacks durring the 80s and 90s and before vietnam, we "screwed around with the world" if someone stepped on our toes.

also is the IRA funded by a private american organization or the US government?
Salutus
15-02-2005, 01:55
Im sorry but i have to know why all europeans with an internet coneection feel the need to tell everyone how much they hate the untied states like it will change Americans views and start a revolution

because their parents didn't pay enough attention to them when they were kids. although letila lives in america. i refuse to say she's american.
hey it's interesting and ironic that 'united' becomes 'untied' by changing one letter.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:56
its mainly response to all the Americans with an internet connection coming on and telling everyone how their country is the best thing the world has ever known, and we should all feel inferior for not being American

Really? because the only time I hear pro American posts are after someone bashes america saying it isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:56
I don't hate you. I disagree with you on everything, but you seem to be a good person.

I thought you were American. Only Americans are as far right wing as you. ;)
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:57
because their parents didn't pay enough attention to them when they were kids. although letila lives in america. i refuse to say she's american.
hey it's interesting and ironic that 'united' becomes 'untied' by changing one letter.

Letila's a 'he.'
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:57
because their parents didn't pay enough attention to them when they were kids. although letila lives in america. i refuse to say she's american.

I'm male and I don't consider myself American, though I was born here.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 01:58
so you think that the 9/11 attacks are alright?

where did i say that?

Terrorism is despicable in every form, but what im saying is that the US should have seen it coming


we had a shitload of terrorist attacks durring the 80s and 90s and before vietnam, we "screwed around with the world" if someone stepped on our toes.

No, you screwed around with the world when you thought there was even the slightest chance of a communist nation popping up anywhere near you

also is the IRA funded by a private american organization or the US government?
private organisations and people, such as Coca Cola and McDonalds
Big businesses right through to your average Joe all donated to the IRA, and its that kind of attitude displayed by Americans towards the world in general that led to 9/11
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 01:58
:D Letila's a 'he.'

hahahaha good shit :D
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 01:58
I thought you were American. Only Americans are as far right wing as you. ;)

Lol, right-wing or not, it doesn't mean I can't respect left-wingers. You use intelligence and rational thinking when you argue, rather than whining and flaming, and you seem to be a decent, kind, friendly person.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 01:58
Letila's a 'he.'

Really? becuase the Uberspamgirl under it's (just to be safe) name says other wise
Salutus
15-02-2005, 01:59
Letila's a 'he.'

my bad. i was going off the 'uber spamgirl' thing.
but anyways, back to our flaming.

letila, you hate america but you 'consider yourself american.' do you hate yourself?
Letila
15-02-2005, 01:59
Lol, right-wing or not, it doesn't mean I can't respect left-wingers. You use intelligence and rational thinking when you argue, rather than whining and flaming, and you seem to be a decent, kind, friendly person.

Thanks, it's nice that at least you aren't telling me to go to hell.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:00
where did i say that?

Terrorism is despicable in every form, but what im saying is that the US should have seen it coming


No, you screwed around with the world when you thought there was even the slightest chance of a communist nation popping up anywhere near you

private organisations and people, such as Coca Cola and McDonalds
Big businesses right through to your average Joe all donated to the IRA, and its that kind of attitude displayed by Americans towards the world in general that led to 9/11

The sad thing is we did see it coming and noone did anything about it. we could have nailed osama in 1998 but Clinton told the army to back off. we werent even going to invade we were simply going to hit him with a cruise misslie and if it was successful none of this might have happened
Letila
15-02-2005, 02:01
letila, you hate america but you 'consider yourself american.' do you hate yourself?

I said I don't consider myself American.
Salutus
15-02-2005, 02:01
Thanks, it's nice that at least you aren't telling me to go to hell.

i've got to stop and compliment you for a second. although i totally disagree with your posts and hate your thread, you've been extremely good-natured throughout my personal attacks, which normally merit four-letter words. congrats.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 02:02
I said I don't consider myself American.

Thank god..........JK :rolleyes:
United Danes
15-02-2005, 02:02
Letila:

Am I really oppressing women when I open doors for them out of habit? Also do you think that when men go to war that wanting to keep women out of combat positions is totaly wrong and if so why and what should we do to combat it? I would like to hear your comments on this.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:02
The sad thing is we did see it coming and noone did anything about it. we could have nailed osama in 1998 but Clinton told the army to back off. we werent even going to invade we were simply going to hit him with a cruise misslie and if it was successful none of this might have happened
exactly my point.

America should have seen it coming because of their previous actions and should have been better prepared, instead of taking it as a massive bolt from the blue
Roach-Busters
15-02-2005, 02:02
Thanks, it's nice that at least you aren't telling me to go to hell.

You're going to Hell! :mad:

(Just kidding! ;):D)

Seriously, though, you are cool.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:02
awww... how nice we arent at eachothers throats anymore. so sweet :fluffle: :D
Letila
15-02-2005, 02:04
I have been typing so much that my joints are begining to ache.

Am I really oppressing women when I open doors for them out of habit? Also do you think that when men go to war that wanting to keep women out of combat position is eventually wrong and if so why and what should we do to combat it? I would like to hear your comments on this.

I think we shouldn't be judged based on gender any more than we should be judged on race.
Vengard
15-02-2005, 02:04
exactly my point.

America should have seen it coming because of their previous actions and should have been better prepared, instead of taking it as a massive bolt from the blue

No what he ment was that we had reports that an attack on our airplains was given to us awhile before 9/11
Lostariel
15-02-2005, 02:06
the US isnt perfect, but we are not that bad. we dont blame the poor for being poor, and we know that not all the rich worked to hard for it. I also wont tell u that we have a genius leader, Bush. I, personally, dont think he is suitable for the job of a department store worker, let alone president. i do consider myslef an american, i was born here, but im not strictly loyal to the government by which I live. i dont agree with everything america is about, like our over patriotism, and the false belief that we are better than all other nations, but we are not as terrible as some have descrbed.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:06
No what he ment was that we had reports that an attack on our airplains was given to us awhile before 9/11

No i said that we knew osama was a threat and had planned other attacks that already happened like the bombing in Kenya and we diddnt kill him when we had the chance
New York and Jersey
15-02-2005, 02:07
Yes, all countries have stupid laws, but that doesn't excuse the US's. Anal sex is illegal, but the only reason it isn't enforced so much is because the police don't have the manpower (unPC?) to enforce it.

I'm sorry, I'm only on page three and already people have said that so what, other nations have stupid laws. This goes in one ear and out of the other with you. What is it that you want? The U.S. is never going to be perfect. Thats not possible. Human beings run this country and human beings are flawed creatures. You yourself prove that.

As for the US standard of living..being 13th out of 111 isnt at all scaring me. Especially when the BBC ranked on "traditional values" what are traditional values and how do they weigh? Normally folks who conduct standard of living exams have a bias toward a certain ideal as to how countries should be.

As for the Superbowl thing..kids watch the Superbowl. Parents dont like it when a tit pops out on TV because what becomes a family activity instantly becomes a bad publicity attempt to revive someones sagging career. What people complained about was the bad taste. You think if no one complained about it the FCC would have done anything? It normally takes a certain amount of complaints before the FCC decides to act.
Salutus
15-02-2005, 02:07
the US isnt perfect, but we are not that bad. we dont blame the poor for being poor, and we know that not all the rich worked to hard for it. I also wont tell u that we have a genius leader, Bush. I, personally, dont think he is suitable for the job of a department store worker, let alone president. i do consider myslef an american, i was born here, but im not strictly loyal to the government by which I live. i dont agree with everything america is about, like our over patriotism, and the false belief that we are better than all other nations, but we are not as terrible as some have descrbed.

most reasonable-sounding person i've ever talked to on NS ;)
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:07
No what he ment was that we had reports that an attack on our airplains was given to us awhile before 9/11
well, then i unagree with him.

ish
Lostariel
15-02-2005, 02:08
.....and i agree, Bush should have woken up and seen the signs of 9/11. i could have been prevented, and that error was due to a mistake within the government.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:08
well, then i unagree with him.

ish

I posted a new quote-did you read it?
Invidentia
15-02-2005, 02:08
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

Captialism is the way the world works, I dont see any problem with it

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

Which is exactly why child pornography and the child sex trade runs rampent throughout Europe. And I dont want my child exposed to inaproriate sexual content through the media or any other source, because such sources really does have a negative effect on children as they grow up. Also I would like to remind you no such freedoms of speach exist in countries like Britian, where the government could essentailly censor what it wished.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

Oh this is really grand. I would like to remind you that it is only in America where if you are born in a low socio-economic class you ahve the ability to raise yourself out of that class within your life time. In other countries there is better treatment for those living in poverty because they are considered low class and have few opprounties to have movement from one class to another for their children let alone them. It can take a family generations before they are able to move to a higher class level.
In America the oness and ability lies on the individual to raise themselves out of poverty.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

As someone else stated.. you are NOT SOL.. public hospitals have an obligation to treat all patients. If your poor you also pay almost no taxes, and are still eligable to recieve welfare payments/ medicare treatment... how exactly are you SOL ?


4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

Japan also sufferes from astronomical suicide rates in comparison to the United States... Our Standards of living in the WEST alone are outragiously high even overly inflated. In fact the standard of living for the United States are grealy high, top 20 .. while many other first world nations rank outside the top 20 ..

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

exactly what lack of freedom would this be ? gay marriage ? please if this is a sign of oppressive authoriative government control we've little worry about in america today..

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

Have you ever even been to Europe ? Sexism is rampent in EUrope.. The US maintains the most equality between men and women in general society. Yes its true in political offices America does come up short.. but in those sectors so does most of the Western society.. infact it is mainly AFrican and Asian nations who have much higher rates of women in government...

7.Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

thats funny... any law propogating prostitution to me is a stupid law... You want to talk about stupid laws.. have you see the way Europeans drive.. they are animals on the road.. We have more laws because it makes us a safer society... isn't hollands population under 60 million ? most European nations have populations under what one State would encompass. American Citizens by far enjoy more freedoms then in any other society.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

If you hate so much about America.. one great thing is.. you have the freedom to leave any time you want...
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:09
.....and i agree, Bush should have woken up and seen the signs of 9/11. i could have been prevented, and that error was due to a mistake within the government.

Clinton wasnt on top of things either about 9/11 it was his decision to not kill osama when we could have easily taken him out
Brianetics
15-02-2005, 02:09
where did i say that?

private organisations and people, such as Coca Cola and McDonalds
Big businesses right through to your average Joe all donated to the IRA, and its that kind of attitude displayed by Americans towards the world in general that led to 9/11

Uh.. if that's what's behind 9/11, why haven't we been attacked by the Ulster Unionists in addition to Al Qaeda? Peddling your obscure (to the world outside the UK) urban legends does not a case make. Americans are not angry with the British people, government or big business because that nation has managed to produce a Richard Reid, more than its fair share of Afghan terror camp recruits and several firebrand Islamist clerics dedicated to our destruction. By the same token, it's ludicrous to be upset with the U.S.A. because some small number of American citizens belonging to one of its ethnic minorities may have contributed to IRA terrorism. The vast majority of Americans have no idea what you're even talking about, and have never given a rat's ass about the conflict in Northern Ireland, one way or the other (and would be horrified at the idea of supporting any terrorist group, including the IRA).

Like America's current mess in the Arab/Muslim world -- the result of tremndously shortsighted and brutal U.S. government policies, not private American attitudes -- the tragedy of Northern Ireland is largely one of your own making. Show the CIA had something to do with it, and you may have something. Otherwise, go brood over something more worthwhile.
Letila
15-02-2005, 02:10
As for the Superbowl thing..kids watch the Superbowl. Parents dont like it when a tit pops out on TV because what becomes a family activity instantly becomes a bad publicity attempt to revive someones sagging career. What people complained about was the bad taste. You think if no one complained about it the FCC would have done anything? It normally takes a certain amount of complaints before the FCC decides to act.

Yet Europe wouldn't have acted that way.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:10
I posted a new quote-did you read it?
you must have posted it while i was typing, sorry

its a fair point, but im not entirely sure how it was related to my post.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:11
Uh.. if that's what's behind 9/11, why haven't we been attacked by the Ulster Unionists in addition to Al Qaeda? Peddling your obscure (to the world outside the UK) urban legends does not a case make. Americans are not angry with the British people, government or big business because that nation has managed to produce a Richard Reid, more than its fair share of Afghan terror camp recruits and several firebrand Islamist clerics dedicated to our destruction. By the same token, it's ludicrous to be upset with the U.S.A. because some small number of American citizens belonging to one of its ethnic minorities may have contributed to IRA terrorism. The vast majority of Americans have no idea what you're even talking about, and have never given a rat's ass about the conflict in Northern Ireland, one way or the other (and would be horrified at the idea of supporting any terrorist group, including the IRA).

Like America's current mess in the Arab/Muslim world -- the result of tremndously shortsighted and brutal U.S. government policies, not private American attitudes -- the tragedy of Northern Ireland is largely one of your own making. Show the CIA had something to do with it, and you may have something. Otherwise, go brood over something more worthwhile.
congratulations, you have completely missed the point of my post
Brianetics
15-02-2005, 02:13
congratulations, you have completely missed the point of my post

"Big businesses right through to your average Joe all donated to the IRA, and its that kind of attitude displayed by Americans towards the world in general that led to 9/11"

That is the point I was responding to.
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:13
you must have posted it while i was typing, sorry

its a fair point, but im not entirely sure how it was related to my post.


No i said that we knew osama was a threat and had planned other attacks that already happened like the bombing in Kenya and we diddnt kill him when we had the chance

you said that we should have seen the actual attcak coming. we could have stopped 9/11 before it was even in the planning stages
Salutus
15-02-2005, 02:14
Yet Europe wouldn't have acted that way.

no...because europe's different... i've been to germany and seen tits on billboards on crowded streets. that's life over there. culture doesn't exist in a vacume; if you live in a city with tits on billboards (that would be a great band name, btw) then that is not an issue for you. why do we have to be like europe?
New York and Jersey
15-02-2005, 02:14
exactly my point.

America should have seen it coming because of their previous actions and should have been better prepared, instead of taking it as a massive bolt from the blue


Ugh..another tiresome aspect. The whole "you should have seen it coming" bit. Lets get something straight..on this side of the pond our founding fathers believed that government was designed to protect people. So most people in the US believed nothing would happen. The Cold War was over, no more nuclear threat. It was okay for Clinton to dismantle the intel agencies. Who needs Human Intel in the age of Super-Dooper spy sats? And so the country was lulled into a false sense of security. No one saw it coming because the American public didnt believe it would happen. Such attacks rarely did massive damage and those that do(Oklahoma City) were done by domestic nutjobs.Not

Did some people see it coming? Of course they did. Problem is people in power rarely listen to those outside of the spectrum if their ideas are unpopular or seem unlikely. Politics is not the scientific community. You cant just present an idea in politics and expect it to have a warm welcome unless some good can come from it. No politican pre-9/11 was going to risk scaring the shit out of his constituants with the threats of terrorism on the U.S. on a wide scale especially since the last time the US had been attacked by a terrorist it was a homegrown "Hate the US Government" nutjob.
Belem
15-02-2005, 02:15
Most Americans think that the rest of the world hates them because they are free. That, however, is dead wrong. I hate it for being too capitalist and two oppressive.

1. Sexual repression--The US has a truly terrible attitude towards sex. Whereas most of the first world has little problem with sex and censors it rarely, the FCC censors stuff all the time. Americans themselves are even more sex-negative than the government, demanding that censor more stuff than it already is.

2. Élitism--In the US, if you are poor, it is considered your fault and you wasted all your money on drugs. If you are rich, it is supposedly because you worked hard. As a result, the poor are treated far worse than those in other first world nations.

3. Healthcare--If you are poor, you don't have many options. If you break your leg and can't afford healthcare, you are SOL (how can you get a job when your leg is on the verge of falling off is beyond me, but Americans, conservatives in particular, expect you to do so).

4. Standards of Living--The US is supposed to be the richest nation in the world, yet its standard of living is below that of many European nations. Its life-expectancy is around 5 years less than that of Japan. Whether its due to rampant obesity or lack of concern for the poor, I don't know.

5. Propaganda--Everyday, I hear endlessly about how free the US is. If the US is so free, why do we need to be reminded of it? I am begining to wonder if the reason for all this propaganda is a lack of freedom that the gov wants us to ignore.

6. Sexism--The US is far behind the rest of the first world (except Japan, hardly something to be proud of) in terms of sexual equality. While few Americans are overtly sexist, it shows in the small number of women in political offices compared to the rest of the first world.

7. Stupid laws--There are so many stupid laws in the US. Do we really need laws against gay marriage, anal sex, pot, prostitution, etc.? Holland doesn't and it isn't collapsing into a dystopia. For a "free country", the US has a lot of truly stupid laws.

Of course, people are going to invariably post "It's better than in Iraq/China/Afghanistan/etc." That does not excuse anything!

1. You know certain things are supposed to be private matters and not broadcasted around sex is one of them. You know we could say the same thing about Europeans and violence, you guys arent open about violence hell some countries over there you can't show red blood in videogames(not sure how it is with movies.) Im sorry but that is even more repressed then anything thats seeing redblood aint going to screw a kid up for life but seeing hardcore porn at 10 probably will traumatize the kid.

2. Obviously you haven't been exposed to alot of poor people or rich people. If you had you would know theres alot of truth to this, people who want to succeed succeed people who don't or are just plain dumb dont. Theres plenty of people who were rich(because of inheritance) but since they were stupid they blew it and became poor. It has alot to do with intelligence and ability.

3. They have to treat you if even if your homeless and have no money. They will try to collect from you but their chances are very slim. And if you gave everyone universal healthcare people would be forced to pay higher taxes because then when the slightest thing happened everyone would go to the doctor just because its free.

4. The life expantancy has alot to do with what Americans eat mainly. In Japan people mainly eat rice and light foods, lots of people here like food swimming in grease.

5. And everyday people are told by liberals how they aren't free and they are being opressed it goes both ways.

6. Perhaps its because more men want to enter the political field?

7. There are stupid laws everywhere. Hell for some reason its in the books in NY you cant walk backwards on sundays with an icecream cone in your backpocket. Thats what happens when politicians have too much time on their hands.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:16
No i said that we knew osama was a threat and had planned other attacks that already happened like the bombing in Kenya and we diddnt kill him when we had the chance

you said that we should have seen the actual attcak coming. we could have stopped 9/11 before it was even in the planning stages
i never said anything of the sort

i said that the US shouldnt have been so surprised that their actions over the last 40 years came round and bit them in the ass

they should expect that they can do what they did in various places and not face any consequences

which is close to what you are saying, but there is a slight difference
Militant Protestants
15-02-2005, 02:16
American foreign policy has supported dictators in the past. This is unfortunate. However, the time that this occured was in the throes of the Cold War. At issue was the defense of the entire planet from Soviet aggression. Usually the dictators that the United States supported were better human rights wise than the Communist despots that they replaced or were replaced by. In Nicaragua, the government of Somozoa, a military dictator was overthrown by the Sandinistas in 1979. If people thought that Somozoa was a bad guy, the Sandinistas were far worse. Routine human rights abuses occured under the Sandinistas.

In Iran, we supported the Shah despite the fact that he was an autocratic ruler. However, he was pro-western and secular in his rule. However, in 1979, a major Islamic revolution occured in Iran. Despite pleas from withing Iran and without, President Jimmy Carter chose to let the Shah fall. What came into being was one of the most virulent anti-Western, pro-terrorist regimes ever to exist. Ayatollah Khomeni was an evil dictator who ruled Iran with an Iron Islamic fist. His reign brought about the deaths of millions and the state-sponsorship of international terrorism which began in 1979 has yet to abate.

Although the United States has supported dictators in the past, it has helped to liberate millions and millions of people worldwide and bring them into liberal democracies. Iraq, a nation which has never known any form of democracy, is now a fledging democracy with freedoms that few countries in the area know. Granted, there is an insurgency in the country that threatens to destabalize all of the gains made at the behest of the American military, but they have been weakened by the recent free elections and the unrelenting pressure that Coalition troops and their Iraqi allies have put upon them.

No foreign policy is perfect. However, the United States has been a beacon of freedom to the world. This is because not only do we love our liberty at home, but we also have the backbone to realize that the liberty we enjoy in the United States is universal. Every single human being yearns to be free from tyranny.

Ask yourself this, would you want to live under the boot of Saddam Hussein or in America where freedom is preeminent. American foreign policy has been noble beyond all measure. I ask any of you that "dislike the U.S." to name one other country on the face of the planet that has done so much for the world? I'm sure you could say, "Well, many countries give a lot of foreign aid." However, this does not fundamentally change the plight of those who are oppressed.

The United States is the only nation in the world willing to take huge risks in advancing freedom and democracy throughout the world. Today hundreds of millions of Eastern Europeans are free from the tyranny found in Communism. Hundreds of millions of Western Europeans are free from Naziism. 50 million Muslims are free from the Islamic Fundamentalism of Afghanistan and tbe brutality of the Baathist regime in Iraq. All of this is because the United States has had the courage to spread freedom throughout the world.

So there you have it. You can hate the United States for what it's done, but my basic premise remains the same. We are doing good in the world and only those with a deep hatred of the values which the United States celebrates or those who are jealous of American power can disagree with my general premise. When other nations like France, Sweden, Germany and other nations take up the burden of liberty, then there will be room to discuss the issues at hand.
New York and Jersey
15-02-2005, 02:16
Yet Europe wouldn't have acted that way.

Thats nice for Europe. Different cultures all around and I'm pretty sure there are quite a handful of European countries that wouldnt have liked it as well. Keep in mind Europe is a big place and just because they have something called the EU doesnt mean they still dont have multiple cultures.
Nadkor
15-02-2005, 02:17
Ugh..another tiresome aspect. The whole "you should have seen it coming" bit. Lets get something straight..on this side of the pond our founding fathers believed that government was designed to protect people. So most people in the US believed nothing would happen. The Cold War was over, no more nuclear threat. It was okay for Clinton to dismantle the intel agencies. Who needs Human Intel in the age of Super-Dooper spy sats? And so the country was lulled into a false sense of security. No one saw it coming because the American public didnt believe it would happen. Such attacks rarely did massive damage and those that do(Oklahoma City) were done by domestic nutjobs.Not

Did some people see it coming? Of course they did. Problem is people in power rarely listen to those outside of the spectrum if their ideas are unpopular or seem unlikely. Politics is not the scientific community. You cant just present an idea in politics and expect it to have a warm welcome unless some good can come from it. No politican pre-9/11 was going to risk scaring the shit out of his constituants with the threats of terrorism on the U.S. on a wide scale especially since the last time the US had been attacked by a terrorist it was a homegrown "Hate the US Government" nutjob.
so your argument with my post is where?
Anti Jihadist Jihad
15-02-2005, 02:19
i never said anything of the sort

i said that the US shouldnt have been so surprised that their actions over the last 40 years came round and bit them in the ass

they should expect that they can do what they did in various places and not face any consequences

which is close to what you are saying, but there is a slight difference

yeah and then i said something agreeing with you and then you said something that i diddnt mean, then i corrected you and you went back to the first statement that i wasnt talking about and now its confusing :confused:
New York and Jersey
15-02-2005, 02:19
so your argument with my post is where?

Well if I must spell it out for you, the whole people should have seen it coming is more or less hindsight bias. Everyone should have seen the bad things coming toward them after the fact. You have no real point yourself when you say things like that.