NationStates Jolt Archive

there is a difference between mock and parody

Yes, there is, but is often in the mind of the beholder.

You see a mockery. For those doing it, it is a parody (although *some* of them may be attempting to mock).

This is funny, check it out:

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/01/012805straightPride.htm


I think that these Reps are right for once, even if they are making themselves look slightly stupid. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your sexuality. I think that the LGBT groups are being overly-sensitive about this. As far as I know these proud straight people will not be waving around hateful placards or anything like that, so what's the problem?

Problem is, when Gay people try to assert their pride, they are in effect refusing to be made to be ashamed of something that they are constantly attacked for. Straigh Pride Week only makes sense if you live in a community that prohibits all demonstrations of sexual desire and they are in effect saying "we have arrived!
we have sex drives!
get used to it!"

It doesn't make sense for straight people to be proud of our sexuality, because it isn't an accomplishment.
Being gay and out is an accomplishment because it requires courage to come out of the closet and face that kind of public criticism.

It's like having "functioning legs pride week." We were born straight and encouraged to stay that way. If this event is being held entierly by people who were gay and claim that they're now straight, then it's something to be proud of, otherwise they're just being assholes.

Not to mention, there is no unifying "straight culture" in this country, to be proud of, that would make it a parrallel of cultural pride weeks. All they can really celebrate is how intolerant they are of gays. Sure straight people have done lots of great things, but none of those things had anything to do with their being straight. Unless of course they can find some really good straight hair dressers, clothing designers, and interior decorators.

Not to mention, there is no unifying "straight culture" in this country, to be proud of, that would make it a parrallel of cultural pride weeks.

This suggests, wrongly, that there is a "unifying gay culture." There are just as many facets to homosexuals as there are to heterosexuals. There is no unifying "way to be gay" other than the simple fact of being attracted to the same gender.

the phrase "Gay Pride," much like Black Pride, refers not to being proud of having a certain sexual orientation or skin color (which are born traits) but to being proud of one's ability to overcome the discrimination and maltreatment that other people visit upon those with such traits. given that heterosexual Republicans hold two out of three branches of our government, given that there is no situation in which heterosexual Republicans have lesser rights than all other citizens, and given that the rates of harassment of heterosexual Republicans by homosexuals of any sort are miniscule compared to the reciprocal statistics, i don't see what they have to be "proud" of in this context.

Proud, as used in these contexts by belittled parties, (gays, women, minorities) does not so much mean proud of being that, but rather a refusal to be made ashamed of it.

Proud when used by parties with the upper hand is the sort of pride that the lackies of grade school bullies demonstrate. "We belong to a group that has all the power, and though we don't actually have any of that power ourselves we enjoy our proximity to it so we're going to point and laugh at you secure in the knowledge that as long as we keep oppressing you you will be ashamed no matter how proud you try to proclaim yourself."

thats differnet than this, you arnt reading between the lines. they are NOT celebrating their heterosexuality, they are celebrating the fact they arnt gay and are doing it SOLELY to mock homosexuals

Even if that was true, they still have the right to that free speech. I'll grant you that it might not be most intelligent way to get that message out, but they have every right to do so, the same as any other group.

This suggests, wrongly, that there is a "unifying gay culture." There are just as many facets to homosexuals as there are to heterosexuals. There is no unifying "way to be gay" other than the simple fact of being attracted to the same gender.

Shared sense of history creates a shared culture. Not a "way to be gay" but a sense that one has a stake in what others have suffered. There is no "way to be black" but there's a black culture in this country distinct from any country in Africa. In fact African-American cluture is filtering in to Africa.

Virtually every culture on the face of the Earth is built on conflict with other cultures. Some people have said that Canada has no history because they never had a big war themselves. Gay people here have had plenty of conflict with straight people in this country and it brought them together, and like it or not, that makes a culture.

Just take a look at where we got this story. A gay internet newspaper. Unless the actual paper enjoys having sex with other papers of the same gender, you have to admit that it's a construction of culture.

I must say the idea of a 'straight pride' parade does seem rather pointless. When you live in such an avidly straight world, the only people I could see that would really need to have a straight pride parade would be those who aren't entirely sure they're straight. Submerse yourselves in those that share your views of loving the opposite sex! Be reassured that you're in the right! Though really, they should be able to do that just by walking out the door or turning on the TV.

It's not like straight people need some sort of parade to be like 'Nyah! We're straight and you can't do anything about it!' I doubt anyone has had parents that shunned them because they turned out straight, or had friends and peers turn on them, and I know that being straight has never been illegal, so what's the point?

And for the people that claim heterosexuality isn't flaunted... we're constantly bombarded by heterosexuality in the media, whether it be outright or in kids shows where it's implied that two of the characters are 'meant-to-be'. Anyone who's a slash/yaoi/shounen-ai fan would probably agree, seeing as the goal for us is to ignore said heterosexual relationships or find ways around them in fiction. Odd affair, but it does awaken one to the overall heterosexuality of it all. Not that it doesn't make sense, since the majority of people claim heterosexuality, the media would plainly reflect this.

not inherently no, but if thats the PURPOSE for the pride is for mockery of a different pride, yeah thats what it means

Can you prove that the straight pride march is a mockery of the gay pride march? It may be a reaction but not a mockery.

Can you prove that the straight pride march is a mockery of the gay pride march? It may be a reaction but not a mockery.

What are the straights proud of?

What are the straights proud of?

Being straight. But you havent answered my question. Can you prove that the straight pride march is a mockery of the gay pride march?

Being straight. But you havent answered my question. Can you prove that the straight pride march is a mockery of the gay pride march?

What's there to be proud of in being straight?

And you didn't ask me that question.

What's there to be proud of in being straight?

And you didn't ask me that question.

What is there to be proud of in being Gay? And while I didnt ask you the question, it was an open question to all those who oppose this march. My point being that as their is no rational reason to be particualy proud of your sexuality either way, then if one can have a march celebrating their sexuality then so can the other. It only makes sense. Its rather like modern western nationalism. People are quite happy to support Arab patriotism within western nations but find western patriotism in western nations to be an affront to other nations.

That's gonna be the dullest parade ever.

If they invite the girls who work at the Hooters to join the parade, and wet their t-shirts down, I think it will be exciting enough.

Heck, even the lesbians on campus would have something to cheer about.

What is there to be proud of in being Gay? And while I didnt ask you the question, it was an open question to all those who oppose this march. My point being that as their is no rational reason to be particualy proud of your sexuality either way, then if one can have a march celebrating their sexuality then so can the other. It only makes sense. Its rather like modern western nationalism. People are quite happy to support Arab patriotism within western nations but find western patriotism in western nations to be an affront to other nations.

Gay prides are, and I *know* you've been told this before, about being proud of being able to say who you are without fear, without people getting pissy about it, without feeling 'wrong'.
So tell me, since when have straight people feared saying they're straight?

So granted, the name 'gay' pride is a minsnomer, but you come up with a better name.


As for your question, no I cannot prove such, nor do I have the desire to.

Gay prides are, and I *know* you've been told this before, about being proud of being able to say who you are without fear, without people getting pissy about it, without feeling 'wrong'.
So tell me, since when have straight people feared saying they're straight?

So granted, the name 'gay' pride is a minsnomer, but you come up with a better name.

As for your question, no I cannot prove such, nor do I have the desire to.

In these days of political correctness, you can be accused of being reactionary, accused of being intolerant, accused of not understanding, accused of being wrong, accused of not accepting, just because you are straight, white, and male.

Just the act of being born a certain way makes you automatically guilty - and if you say you're proud of it, professors give you bad grades, people at work stop talking to you, and you learn to keep your mouth shut - never have any friends at work, and certainly never talk about your lifestyle choices.

Sound familiar? Well, it's perfectly OK to be gay. It's also perfectly OK to be straight. Both should have parades, and the gay people need to STFU about it.

I think that these Reps are right for once, even if they are making themselves look slightly stupid. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your sexuality. I think that the LGBT groups are being overly-sensitive about this. As far as I know these proud straight people will not be waving around hateful placards or anything like that, so what's the problem?

There's nothing wrong with rooting for the home team, its when you feel the opposition poses such a great threat to your own politics that you need to go out and knee-cap the opposition that you start to drift into terrorism.

..and then there's that fine line between terrorism and patriotism that is usually only defined by the history books and the victors of wars.

In these days of political correctness, you can be accused of being reactionary, accused of being intolerant, accused of not understanding, accused of being wrong, accused of not accepting, just because you are straight, white, and male.

Just the act of being born a certain way makes you automatically guilty - and if you say you're proud of it, professors give you bad grades, people at work stop talking to you, and you learn to keep your mouth shut - never have any friends at work, and certainly never talk about your lifestyle choices.

Sound familiar? Well, it's perfectly OK to be gay. It's also perfectly OK to be straight. Both should have parades, and the gay people need to STFU about it.

Now that's a good point.
Seems I made the same mistake others have, I'm sowwies. ._.;

As for your question, no I cannot prove such, nor do I have the desire to.

Well untill you can, you must agree that the gay pride march and the straight pride march have equal standing.

If they invite the girls who work at the Hooters to join the parade, and wet their t-shirts down, I think it will be exciting enough.

Heck, even the lesbians on campus would have something to cheer about.
Not the militant ones though.

I think the pride in "gay pride" things is being proud of not hiding homosexuality. People have no reason to hide heterosexuality, so "straight pride" is nonsense.

Well untill you can, you must agree that the gay pride march and the straight pride march have equal standing.

Now, you're going too far.

One must agree that the two have equal legality. However, one does not necessarily have to believe that they have equal standing, any more than one must feel that the Catholic Church and Primitive Baptists have equal standing.

Well untill you can, you must agree that the gay pride march and the straight pride march have equal standing.

Fine with me as long as I get to picket yours with 'God hates straights' signs.

Now, you're going too far.

One must agree that the two have equal legality. However, one does not necessarily have to believe that they have equal standing, any more than one must feel that the Catholic Church and Primitive Baptists have equal standing.

What exactly is their in the straight pride march to criticise? Its exactly the same as the Gay pride march but a inverted emphesis. I fail to see why people should treet it any diffrently. I could understand if it was just those gays who came out as a result of it becoming more accepted but most people taking part in homosexual parades now were born inside the postmodern era so that's not the case anymore. And further more, whats wrong with baptist churches?

Fine with me as long as I get to picket yours with 'God hates straights' signs.

No, God hates straights who masturbate. Read your Bible (that would make a funny sign, though).

He also hates adulterers, although considering how he treated David, you would never know that.

Fine with me as long as I get to picket yours with 'God hates straights' signs.

Why not? This would be a clear demonstration of what you think is at issue as opposed to what they think is at issue.

Fine with me as long as I get to picket yours with 'God hates straights' signs.

Since God hate's no one you would be wrong. So go ahead. God hates sin, not sinners.

What exactly is their in the straight pride march to criticise?

Many, although not all, of those who will participate in said march are doing so because of their bigotted views towards gays, not out of any pride or wish to help others.

Its exactly the same as the Gay pride march but a inverted emphesis. I fail to see why people should treet it any diffrently.

Wrong. Those who do not understand the point of a pride march believe it is the same specifically because they do not understand it. They are entitled to their view of a pride march, and their view is what they are proclaiming here, but their view comes from a complete misunderstanding.

I could understand if it was just those gays who came out as a result of it becoming more accepted but most people taking part in homosexual parades now were born inside the postmodern era so that's not the case anymore.

Wow, what a sheltered life you lead.

And further more, whats wrong with baptist churches?

You do make a habit out of misreading things, don't you?

Since God hate's no one you would be wrong. So go ahead. God hates sin, not sinners.
I think it was a joke based on some of the conservative groups that walk around with "God Hates Fags" signs.

Since God hate's no one you would be wrong. So go ahead. God hates sin, not sinners.

Never mind.

No, God hates straights who masturbate. Read your Bible (that would make a funny sign, though).

He also hates adulterers, although considering how he treated David, you would never know that.

The truth doesn't bother me, I hate, er, I mean GOD hates... um... :(

The truth doesn't bother me, I hate, er, I mean GOD hates... um... :(

Admit it. It's just fun to hold up a sign that pisses people off. It's like trolling, except it's live and in color.

Many, although not all, of those who will participate in said march are doing so because of their bigotted views towards gays, not out of any pride or wish to help others.


So by your logic, most patriots in one nation hate all other nations. If you proclaim that both Gay's and Straights are equal then you must also agree that their marches are equal.


Wrong. Those who do not understand the point of a pride march believe it is the same specifically because they do not understand it. They are entitled to their view of a pride march, and their view is what they are proclaiming here, but their view comes from a complete misunderstanding.


Then what is the point of a pride march if not to display pride?


Wow, what a sheltered life you lead.

You do make a habit out of misreading things, don't you?

Care to explain yourself on those two?

Admit it. It's just fun to hold up a sign that pisses people off. It's like trolling, except it's live and in color.

So that's why people do it.
Hmm...

Admit it. It's just fun to hold up a sign that pisses people off. It's like trolling, except it's live and in color.
Unfortunately, the ammo is also live and in color. And it hurts too.
:(

I think it's great that in our great US of A, that members of any group can come together and celebrate their heritage and lifestyle.

Go "straighties"!! :)

_____
BTW: I find this much better than what BiGala used to do at UConn. Once a year, without warning, it'd be "gay jeans day", where you'd show your support for gays by wearing jeans.

Yet every year, they only said what day it was in the Daily Campus newspaper *that* day. So people would get dressed (90% of the campus wore jeans) without knowing.

That'd be like me saying "ok, everyone with sleeves on their shirts supports clubbing baby seals!".

You'd be amazed how many folks got changed at lunch time. Not all because they were anti-gay, but because it was such a stupid and lame way to get message out.

-Markreich

Do you know who Queensryche is? Vote here!! : http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=389278

So by your logic, most patriots in one nation hate all other nations. If you proclaim that both Gay's and Straights are equal then you must also agree that their marches are equal.

You have this insane black and white view of the world that I thought was only present in '50's television and George Bush's mind.

(a) Patriot marches are not an accurate analogy for Pride marches. Patriotic marches express actual pride in the country. Pride marches express the philosophy that an oppressed group will not be convinced that they should be ashamed of who they are.

(b) Your analogy further holds no merit because patriotic marches are not in response to others. If France held a patriotic march, and then the Birtish went, "Those damn Frenchies! We need to have a march too, to show them how silly their march is." the analogy *might* hold merit.

Then what is the point of a pride march if not to display pride?

To display the fact that you will not be oppressed. They are not saying "We're proud to be gay!" After all, that would be like me saying that I am proud to have blue eyes, or I am proud to menstruate. They are saying "We will not be ashamed of who we are because others don't like us. You may call us all the names you like, but will not succumb to your bigotry. No one should be ashamed of who they are."

Care to explain yourself on those two?

1) You naively assume that "more acceptance" is equivalent to "zero oppression." Yes, many homosexuals were born since it became *somewhat* accepted in *some* areas. However, to then extend that to mean that no one is afraid to come out, or that no one is oppressed is ludicrous.

2) I never once stated anything that could be construed by any intelligent person as suggesting that there was *anything* wrong with Baptist churches. However, do you really think that a Caholic feels that a Primitive Baptist Church has equal standing with theirs? Or vice versa?

I"ve been oppressed for being straight. I've been told that if I mention the fact that I am heterosexual at work, that constitutes oppresson of homosexuals. Just saying it.

Nice politically correct classes they have in Corporate America nowadays. I'm forced to take classes where I'm told these sorts of things. Don't mention to a homosexual that you're going out of a date with a woman. Don't mention that you're married. It's oppressive to them.

Well, I don't see why I should feel guilty about dating or getting married.

I don't feel strange when they tell me they're going to a club to meet men, so I don't see why I should be oppressed.

I don't think you understand. You say gay is equivalent to heterosexuality, which is normal. Gay is not. Gay IS equivalent to bestiality, necrophilia, and pedophilia. Do those items produce offspring? No.

God Bless Antonin Scalia. And God Bless George Bush.
Wow, you found a link! Here's a stronger one:

Gay sex is equivalent to straight sex because they both require consent.

show me state school where kids are harassed for being heterosexual, and i will start supporting their "Straight Pride" week. until then, these are just kids pouting because they aren't getting enough attention, and this event is equivalent to having a White Pride parade during the Civil Rights era. shame on them, and on the parents who so obviously failed to rear thinking and mature children.

of course, i fully support their RIGHT to parade their own ignorance, arrogant, and idiocy as publicly as they wish, just as i would support the right of a White Pride group to do the same. :)
I just posted it because it was funny. I think the Reps will make themselves look like idiots as usual and they have the right to. I don't particularly endorse this.

I go to the school the straight pride week crap is being done at and I didn't hear about it until I was reading Yahoo last night. I think it's just funny.

(a) Patriot marches are not an accurate analogy for Pride marches. Patriotic marches express actual pride in the country. Pride marches express the philosophy that an oppressed group will not be convinced that they should be ashamed of who they are.

(b) Your analogy further holds no merit because patriotic marches are not in response to others. If France held a patriotic march, and then the Birtish went, "Those damn Frenchies! We need to have a march too, to show them how silly their march is." the analogy *might* hold merit.


1) Are you actually able to PROVE that straight pride marches are intended as an insult to Gay pride marches. Because if not you should not continue in this vain.

2) While I will agree with you that these marches are a response to Gay pride marches, my idea of it is "They celebrate their sexuallity, thats a great idea! We should do the same!"


To display the fact that you will not be oppressed. They are not saying "We're proud to be gay!" After all, that would be like me saying that I am proud to have blue eyes, or I am proud to menstruate. They are saying "We will not be ashamed of who we are because others don't like us. You may call us all the names you like, but will not succumb to your bigotry. No one should be ashamed of who they are."


That's fair. However the same could be said of the straight community. I do not like being told by any Gay's I meet "Oh your gay, you just dont know it yet" or something to that effect.


1) You naively assume that "more acceptance" is equivalent to "zero oppression." Yes, many homosexuals were born since it became *somewhat* accepted in *some* areas. However, to then extend that to mean that no one is afraid to come out, or that no one is oppressed is ludicrous.


Going on mass media interpretaition and my general interpretation of opinons of those around me, it seems to me that anything less than a postive endorcement of homosexuality is declared as homophobia.


2) I never once stated anything that could be construed by any intelligent person as suggesting that there was *anything* wrong with Baptist churches. However, do you really think that a Caholic feels that a Primitive Baptist Church has equal standing with theirs? Or vice versa?

Are you calling all Baptist churches primitive? Or are you just refering to ones from the past?

1) Are you actually able to PROVE that straight pride marches are intended as an insult to Gay pride marches. Because if not you should not continue in this vain.

2) While I will agree with you that these marches are a response to Gay pride marches, my idea of it is "They celebrate their sexuallity, thats a great idea! We should do the same!"



That's fair. However the same could be said of the straight community. I do not like being told by any Gay's I meet "Oh your gay, you just dont know it yet" or something to that effect.



Going on mass media interpretaition and my general interpretation of opinons of those around me, it seems to me that anything less than a postive endorcement of homosexuality is declared as homophobia.



Are you calling all Baptist churches primitive? Or are you just refering to ones from the past?

Primitive Baptist Church is a denomination.

I think though it is immature for them to do this, if gays can have a gay pride week, why can't straights?

1) Are you actually able to PROVE that straight pride marches are intended as an insult to Gay pride marches. Because if not you should not continue in this vain.

Again, READ MY POSTS. Nothing in that point suggested that they were intended as an insult. Meanwhile, those planning it have said that it is meant to demonstrate what they consider to be the silliness of something like a "gay pride week." This is nearly equivalent to the affirmative action bake sales. Those doing it weren't trying to insult minorities - but were pointing out that all people should be treated equally and that they didn't believe affirmative action was a proper way to achieve this.

2) While I will agree with you that these marches are a response to Gay pride marches, my idea of it is "They celebrate their sexuallity, thats a great idea! We should do the same!"

And your idea of it is the same as those holding the march - and it is just as flawed as it represents a clear misunderstanding of the concept behind "gay pride".

That's fair. However the same could be said of the straight community. I do not like being told by any Gay's I meet "Oh your gay, you just dont know it yet" or something to that effect.

You have got to be kidding me. One or two people joke around that you might be gay, and that is oppression? How can anyone be so naive? Have any of your straight friends been beat up for being straight, possibly killed? Have your straight friends been told from birth that they are "unnatural" or wrong? Have any of your straight friends been forced to hide the fact that they like the opposite gender or risk being ostracised from their social groups, spit on, or attacked? You don't even begin to know the meaning of the word oppression, do you?

Going on mass media interpretaition and my general interpretation of opinons of those around me, it seems to me that anything less than a postive endorcement of homosexuality is declared as homophobia.

Typical martyr complex.

Are you calling all Baptist churches primitive? Or are you just refering to ones from the past?

Primitive Baptist is a specific denomination - it's pretty common in the deep south in the US.

Primitive Baptist is a specific denomination - it's pretty common in the deep south in the US.

Ok then, why does said denomination have less standing than Catholicism?

And your idea of it is the same as those holding the march - and it is just as flawed as it represents a clear misunderstanding of the concept behind "gay pride".


You havent answered my question. What is wrong with doing this? Celebrating your sexuality?

Ok then, why does said denomination have less standing than Catholicism?

Are you positive that English is your first language?


Really positive?????


I never said it was. Now kindly go back and actually READ my posts. Get a dictionary out if you need it.

You havent answered my question. What is wrong with doing this? Celebrating your sexuality?

There is nothing inherently wrong it it - it's just silly. It would be like me standing up and saying "YAY! I'm so proud that I bleed for 4 days out of every month!! And I'm so happy to have brown hair and blue eyes!! And I'm so very proud of the fact that I have small wrists!!"

You want me to quote you I will quote you

One must agree that the two have equal legality. However, one does not necessarily have to believe that they have equal standing, any more than one must feel that the Catholic Church and Primitive Baptists have equal standing.

I"ve been oppressed for being straight. I've been told that if I mention the fact that I am heterosexual at work, that constitutes oppresson of homosexuals. Just saying it.

Nice politically correct classes they have in Corporate America nowadays. I'm forced to take classes where I'm told these sorts of things. Don't mention to a homosexual that you're going out of a date with a woman. Don't mention that you're married. It's oppressive to them.

Well, I don't see why I should feel guilty about dating or getting married.

I don't feel strange when they tell me they're going to a club to meet men, so I don't see why I should be oppressed.

Well I don't know your company but I have worked public, private, and goverment. The policy towards gays was that they are basically "normal" as everybody else. There were policies in place to protect them from descrimination(ie "I don't like faggots so this guy gets a crap raise") and abuse.

I know of one company were the HR director was a good Christian and she tried to go after the VP of New Business. A young gay man with pictures of his mate on the desk. Nothing provoctive just a simply picture. She was offended because homosexuality was against God. Never mind the fact he makes tons of money for the company. The CEO to his credit looked at his file told her he could see no reason for firing him and infact he probably deserved more money. He told her to knock it off or she would be replaced.

If you company is making you take classes on the matter then they were probably nailed for having a few "I don't like FAGGOTS" types screwing up.

Such training is usually done by the company to show the courts they are attempted to correct the matter.

Primitive Baptist Church is a denomination.

I think though it is immature for them to do this, if gays can have a gay pride week, why can't straights?

Hey if they are that insecure then what the hell; have at it.

You want me to quote you I will quote you

My point is proven - you don't understand the English language.

Care to try again?

My point is proven - you don't understand the English language.

Care to try again?

I just quoted you saying that Primitive Baptists and the Catholic Church do not have equal standing. What exactly is wrong with what I quoted you on?

One must agree that the two have equal legality. However, one does not necessarily have to believe that they have equal standing, any more than one must feel that the Catholic Church and Primitive Baptists have equal standing.

What exactly is the diffrence in standing between the two? Obviously you may agree/disagree but that doesnt make them any better/worse or give them more/less standing. So what am I missing here (I am genuinely confused)

I have to go, so instead of attempting to let you learn the English language on your own, I will briefly explain.

I never once stated that I believe that any denomination has a higher standing than another. However, a Catholic is certainly not going to feel that a Primitive Baptist church has the same standing as a Cathedral, any more than a Primitive Baptist is going to feel that Catholic mass has the same standing as their ceremonies.

This does not mean that they favor inequal treatment. Both churches receive the same legal standing. Both receive the same standing in the eyes of those who just don't "get" either. Both will receive greater/lesser standing in the eyes of those who are closer to/further from their dogma. However, the statement that one must, out of necessity, see them both with equal standing is ludicrous.

I have to go, so instead of attempting to let you learn the English language on your own, I will briefly explain.

I never once stated that I believe that any denomination has a higher standing than another. However, a Catholic is certainly not going to feel that a Primitive Baptist church has the same standing as a Cathedral, any more than a Primitive Baptist is going to feel that Catholic mass has the same standing as their ceremonies.

This does not mean that they favor inequal treatment. Both churches receive the same legal standing. Both receive the same standing in the eyes of those who just don't "get" either. Both will receive greater/lesser standing in the eyes of those who are closer to/further from their dogma. However, the statement that one must, out of necessity, see them both with equal standing is ludicrous.

I understand, your statement was just a little confusing. I considerd this a possibility but I didnt think it made sense with the relevent context of the word "Standing", in other words, level of respect.

I understand, your statement was just a little confusing. I considerd this a possibility but I didnt think it made sense with the relevent context of the word "Standing", in other words, level of respect.

That is the *only* way it could have made sense. You stated that anyone acknowledging the legality of both types of display must give them equal standing - ie. equal respect. That is one of the most idiotic comments I have heard on these forums. There is no reason that an individual who recognizes the right of someone to have their own display must also agree that the display itself is as respectable as another. I recognize fully that the KKK has the right to march - but I don't respect them at all.

That is the *only* way it could have made sense. You stated that anyone acknowledging the legality of both types of display must give them equal standing - ie. equal respect. That is one of the most idiotic comments I have heard on these forums. There is no reason that an individual who recognizes the right of someone to have their own display must also agree that the display itself is as respectable as another. I recognize fully that the KKK has the right to march - but I don't respect them at all.

You can respect their right to march, is my point. And in this case, because the straight pride march is not promoting anything hateful then I see no reason for you not to have some respect. You can disagree but respect, in the same way Conservatives and Socialists disagree but respect.

You can respect their right to march, is my point. And in this case, because the straight pride march is not promoting anything hateful then I see no reason for you not to have some respect. You can disagree but respect, in the same way Conservatives and Socialists disagree but respect.

I never stated that they don't have the right to march - in fact, I adamantly support it.

However, the fact remains that the entire premise of their march is based on a misunderstanding of another march.

However, the fact remains that the entire premise of their march is based on a misunderstanding of another march.

Does it matter?

Does it matter?

It does if people like you are going to say "How dare you criticize their views?! Their march is exactly the same as the other one!"

thats differnet than this, you arnt reading between the lines. they are NOT celebrating their heterosexuality, they are celebrating the fact they arnt gay and are doing it SOLELY to mock homosexuals

Last time I checked, gays hold gay pride parades because they are celebrating the fact they aren't straight and to mock a hetrosexually-dominated society.

Last time I checked, gays hold gay pride parades because they are celebrating the fact they aren't straight and to mock a hetrosexually-dominated society.

In other words, "I have never had a civil conversation with a homosexual person. In fact, I hate gays. I assume that they are doing this for the reasons I have determined because I am too afraid to actually ask someone why they do it."

I"ve been oppressed for being straight. I've been told that if I mention the fact that I am heterosexual at work, that constitutes oppresson of homosexuals. Just saying it.

Nice politically correct classes they have in Corporate America nowadays. I'm forced to take classes where I'm told these sorts of things. Don't mention to a homosexual that you're going out of a date with a woman. Don't mention that you're married. It's oppressive to them..

I think I smell a little bull here... :rolleyes:

In other words, "I have never had a civil conversation with a homosexual person. In fact, I hate gays. I assume that they are doing this for the reasons I have determined because I am too afraid to actually ask someone why they do it."

Or you could actually, you know, exercise critical reading skills and not put words into my mouth.

What I said, was, because gay people see themselves as oppressed, gay pride parades are a way to make the existing power structure uncomfortable.

The Republicans who are holding the "straight pride" parade seem to see themselves as oppressed by the gay community, much like the gay community thinks it's oppressed by the straight community. That's what it boils down to if you're looking at it objectively.

If you're still having trouble understanding me, I could post my message a third time. But it will be difficult breaking down into monosyllabic words so you can understand me fully.

Or you could actually, you know, exercise critical reading skills and not put words into my mouth.

What I said, was, because gay people see themselves as oppressed, gay pride parades are a way to make the existing power structure uncomfortable.

The Republicans who are holding the "straight pride" parade seem to see themselves as oppressed by the gay community, much like the gay community thinks it's oppressed by the straight community. That's what it boils down to if you're looking at it objectively.

If you're still having trouble understanding me, I could post my message a third time. But it will be difficult breaking down into monosyllabic words so you can understand me fully.

(a) What you said in this post is not at all what you said above.

(b) Pride parades are much more a necessity to make those who are homosexual/bisexual/etc. feel comfortable than a play to make heterosexuals feel uncomfortable.

(c) I have spoken to Republicans who arrange things like this. They generally are not doing it because they feel "oppressed." They are doing it because they do not understand the point of a Pride parade - thinking that is exactly what you apparently think it is. As such, they wish to have a counter-display to express their views that the whole thing is out of proportion.

(d) I understood you perfectly well - and it is still obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.

"YEAH YEAH SEX WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX, YEAH YEAH"

These people are a bunch of faggots.

You are stupid. :D

Anyway, that parade is going to blow.

(a) What you said in this post is not at all what you said above.

Both my posts contain the same information.


(b) Pride parades are much more a necessity to make those who are homosexual/bisexual/etc. feel comfortable than a play to make heterosexuals feel uncomfortable.

It certainly is. The only way to change is society is to make the status quo uncomfortable and then set the change in motion. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Ghandi, Martin Luther, gay pride parades or the Bolshevik revolution.


(c) I have spoken to Republicans who arrange things like this. They generally are not doing it because they feel "oppressed." They are doing it because they do not understand the point of a Pride parade - thinking that is exactly what you apparently think it is. As such, they wish to have a counter-display to express their views that the whole thing is out of proportion.

Having not spoken to any Republicans who organize straight pride parades, or any gay people who have organized gay pride parades, I view both types of functions to be ridiculous.


(d) I understood you perfectly well - and it is still obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It's obvious that your "understanding" of my message is tempered more by your personal beliefs than the dictionary meanings of the words coming out of my keyboard.

It does if people like you are going to say "How dare you criticize their views?! Their march is exactly the same as the other one!"

It is. Homosexuals are no longer opressed in the countries that these nations where the pride marches happen. By your logic there should be Jewish pride marches in Germany.

Both my posts contain the same information.

So, "celebrating homosexuality and mocking a heterosexual-dominated society" means the exact same thing as "make the existing power structure uncomfortable."

It certainly is. The only way to change is society is to make the status quo uncomfortable and then set the change in motion. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Ghandi, Martin Luther, gay pride parades or the Bolshevik revolution.

You assume that the prides are targetted at anyone other than other homosexuals. For the most part, this is an untrue assumption.

Having not spoken to any Republicans who organize straight pride parades, or any gay people who have organized gay pride parades, I view both types of functions to be ridiculous.

In other words, you have never "checked" as you stated in your first post. Looks like you lied.

It's obvious that your "understanding" of my message is tempered more by your personal beliefs than the dictionary meanings of the words coming out of my keyboard.

Not in the least. The word "mock" implies animosity, while the vast majority of homosexuals have no animosity towards heterosexuals, or even "heterosexual society."

It is. Homosexuals are no longer opressed in the countries that these nations where the pride marches happen. By your logic there should be Jewish pride marches in Germany.

Really??!!

Getting murdered because of your sexuality is not oppression?
Getting beaten up because of your sexuality is not oppression?
Getting spit on, cast out of your faimily and social circle, and being the target of vast numbers of crimes is not oppression?

Are you really sure you speak English?

Your black and white view of things is highly indicitive of someone with no connection whatsoever to reality.

Wow the gays here are so intolerant! :eek:

Wow the gays here are so intolerant! :eek:
Erm, huh?
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm, or are you being serious?

Really??!!

Getting murdered because of your sexuality is not oppression?
Getting beaten up because of your sexuality is not oppression?
Getting spit on, cast out of your faimily and social circle, and being the target of vast numbers of crimes is not oppression?

Are you really sure you speak English?

Your black and white view of things is highly indicitive of someone with no connection whatsoever to reality.

Ever been denied a promotion because you're a heterosexual in an office division full of homosexuals?

Ever been told never to mention your family at work because they don't have one?

Assholism is not rooted in one's sexual preference - it's a human thing.

Ever been denied a promotion because you're a heterosexual in an office division full of homosexuals?
Never heard of it happening...
Ever been told never to mention your family at work because they don't have one?
Never heard of it happening...
Assholism is not rooted in one's sexual preference - it's a human thing.
The only time I've heard of that things vaguely like this happened was in a situation with an idiot manager that was forbidding stuf "so as not to make the homosexuals uncomfortable", which was a load of bull. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying I haven't seen it myself.

the "straight pride" is a piss take out of a serious attempt to raise awareness about the issues facing LGBT people.....that is why it's offensive! :rolleyes:

Never heard of it happening...

Never heard of it happening...

The only time I've heard of that things vaguely like this happened was in a situation with an idiot manager that was forbidding stuf "so as not to make the homosexuals uncomfortable", which was a load of bull. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying I haven't seen it myself.

Happened to me.

Also, been down the road with official corporate classes that forbade talking about our families - not just my manager, but a mandatory class that forbade any mention of anything indicative of heterosexuality (sort of a don't ask don't tell).

You could be fired from that company for making a homosexual uncomfortable by talking about your recent marriage. Saw that happen once.

Erm, huh?
Do I detect a hint of sarcasm, or are you being serious?

Yes.

In these days of political correctness, you can be accused of being reactionary, accused of being intolerant, accused of not understanding, accused of being wrong, accused of not accepting, just because you are straight, white, and male.
What? I am all three and have never been accused of intolerance or reactionism.

Maybe it's because I am tolerant of those who are different from me and you perhaps are not. (I support the right to this march, BTW.)

What? I am all three and have never been accused of intolerance or reactionism.

Maybe it's because I am tolerant of those who are different from me and you perhaps are not. (I support the right to this march, BTW.)

I'm not intolerant of homosexuals. I'm intolerant of people who are intolerant of heterosexuals, because I've met them and worked for them.

I think that liberal straight people on this Oklahoma campus should hijack this parade with nudity and hot boy-on-girl penetrative sex!!11! Then it would be a REAL straight pride parade!

I think the pride in "gay pride" things is being proud of not hiding homosexuality. People have no reason to hide heterosexuality, so "straight pride" is nonsense.
On the contrary, in many conservative societies of the past and present, people - especially women - have been forced to hid their sexuality, whether straight or gay.

The ironic thing about this march is that the Republicans would probably not normally be in favour of sexual liberation. See above.

Fine with me as long as I get to picket yours with 'God hates straights' signs.
Why do you assume that because we support the right of these proud straight people to march, that we somehow like the "god hates fags" placard-holders?

I'm not intolerant of homosexuals. I'm intolerant of people who are intolerant of heterosexuals, because I've met them and worked for them.
OK good, so we're in agreement. Sorry for suggesting you were intolerant.

But I have never met or heard of anyone who is intolerant of heterosexuals! Where do you live to be so unfortunate? Such crazy people must be very rare indeed.

Ever been denied a promotion because you're a heterosexual in an office division full of homosexuals?

Ever been told never to mention your family at work because they don't have one?

Assholism is not rooted in one's sexual preference - it's a human thing.
What is your job? You employer sounds like he is so afraid of militant PC reactionaries that he bans saying anything that could ever offend anyone?

What is your job? You employer sounds like he is so afraid of militant PC reactionaries that he bans saying anything that could ever offend anyone?

It was when I worked for Qwest. About 1/4 of our time was consumed taking stupid PC classes that were required and were full of long tests.

If you weren't up to date on your classes, they fired you.

If you made the simplest mistake (let's talk about my honeymoon plans after my marriage in front of a homosexual who can't get married) you were fired.

"YEAH YEAH SEX WITH THE OPPOSITE SEX, YEAH YEAH"

These people are a bunch of faggots.

Way to go tool bag! I notion for a BAN!

So, "celebrating homosexuality and mocking a heterosexual-dominated society" means the exact same thing as "make the existing power structure uncomfortable."

Yes, because the former is a form of civil disobedience in order for recognition and toleration, which causes the latter. I have already said that three times.


You assume that the prides are targetted at anyone other than other homosexuals. For the most part, this is an untrue assumption.

I assume that the prides are targeted at making mainstream society uncomfortable. See the first point.


In other words, you have never "checked" as you stated in your first post. Looks like you lied.

This is a completely unrelevant - and untrue - attack, seeing as though I used the word "checked" as a figure of speech. It's also unnecessarily bogging down the conversation in semantics. It also looks like English is a secondary language for you, or you're a very poor native speaker as evidenced by the fact you seem to lack critical reading skills and can't take certain words in context.


Not in the least. The word "mock" implies animosity, while the vast majority of homosexuals have no animosity towards heterosexuals, or even "heterosexual society."

In any case where a group is oppressed, there is aminosity between them and the oppressor.

Yes, because the former is a form of civil disobedience in order for recognition and toleration, which causes the latter. I have already said that three times.

You have said it, but it was not implicated in your first post. Mockery is rarely a form of civil disobedience and even more rarely has anything to do with tolerance. Thus, your original statement would have been viewed by anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of Englsih has having nothing whatsoever to do with tolerance.

I assume that the prides are targeted at making mainstream society uncomfortable. See the first point.

...which, as I have pointed out, is a false assumption.

This is a completely unrelevant - and untrue - attack, seeing as though I used the word "checked" as a figure of speech.

irrelevant

Even as a figure of speech, the term implies that you know something about it. If you have never spoken to someone involved, you have no knowledge of the situation other than what you, as an outsider, assume on your own.

It's also unnecessarily bogging down the conversation in semantics.

Not in the least. You, Neo Cannen, and those arranging this parade make unfounded claims to know what is going on without ever having spoken to someone involved - by your own admission. As such, you have no authority in the conversation whatsoever. Logically, having never planned a pride parade, I have less authority in the conversation than someone who has been involved - but I have at least gone to the trouble of speaking to those involved and getting their input on the question.

It also looks like English is a secondary language for you, or you're a very poor native speaker as evidenced by the fact you seem to lack critical reading skills and can't take certain words in context.

In other words "I don't know how to be clear using the English language, so obviously you don't know it very well." English is not only my first language - but it is one that I have quite a handle on.

In any case where a group is oppressed, there is ominosity between them and the oppressor.

Animosity And yes, this is true. What you fail to see is that homosexuals do not view heterosexuals as the oppressor. The oppressor is a subset of society with bigotted views. Obviously, there is animosity between homosexuals and those willing to relegate them to second-class citizenship. Meanwhile, that subset is a minority. As such, I have never met a single homosexual who viewed heterosexuals as "the oppressor."

I think most straight people miss the whole point of a gay pride parade. The whole point is to show that you're ashamed of yourself because of the standards society places on you. There's absolutely no point in having a straight pride parade. You're already the majority; you're the socially acceptable.

A straight pride parade is just like a white pride parade (especially back in the 60s). You're not doing it show you're rejecting the shame and derogatory attitudes placed on you. A gay pride parade isn't something to say "Hey, we're better than you, haahahahaha" like some people perceive it as.

In a straight pride parade, you're just doing it to show off and being a bunch of uppity bitches.

No one likes an uppity bitch.

I think most straight people miss the whole point of a gay pride parade. The whole point is to show that you're ashamed of yourself because of the standards society places on you. There's absolutely no point in having a straight pride parade. You're already the majority; you're the socially acceptable.

A straight pride parade is just like a white pride parade (especially back in the 60s). You're not doing it show you're rejecting the shame and derogatory attitudes placed on you. A gay pride parade isn't something to say "Hey, we're better than you, haahahahaha" like some people perceive it as.

In a straight pride parade, you're just doing it to show off and being a bunch of uppity bitches.

No one likes an uppity bitch.


I spent hours in human resources mandatory training at Qwest, where I was made to feel ashamed because I am white, male, and heterosexual.

Don't tell me I can't reject that shame, because I do so as often as I can now. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

I will not work for any company anymore who inflicts that sort of training.

It was when I worked for Qwest. About 1/4 of our time was consumed taking stupid PC classes that were required and were full of long tests.

If you weren't up to date on your classes, they fired you.

If you made the simplest mistake (let's talk about my honeymoon plans after my marriage in front of a homosexual who can't get married) you were fired.
What kind of company is Qwest? What did your job involve doing? I agree that it is definitely wrong to make you feel ashamed because of your heterosexuality.

What kind of company is Qwest? What did your job involve doing? I agree that it is definitely wrong to make you feel ashamed because of your heterosexuality.

It's a provider of long distance, and aside from WorldCom, controls half of the Internet backbone in the US.

I worked in the legal department. At that company, you're not allowed to do ANYTHING that would offend a special interest group. However, nowhere is it forbidden to offend anyone who is white, male, and heterosexual (all at the same time). That person is ALWAYS fair game to be the butt of jokes, the focus of what's wrong, and that person is FORBIDDEN to argue back, talk back, or even offer their opinion on their own lifestyle (much less criticize anyone else's).

We had to attend sensitivity training. Mandatory. A lot of corporations do this now to cover their butts from lawsuits.

In order to be sensitive to a homosexual, we must allow them to engage in talk that if a male heterosexual said to a female hetero, would get you fired.

Otherwise, we're oppressing them. In other words, a male homosexual would be permitted to sexually harass me, continuously and without end, while one comment like that from me to a woman would get me fired before I finished the sentence.

Ever been denied a promotion because you're a heterosexual in an office division full of homosexuals?

Ever been told never to mention your family at work because they don't have one?

Assholism is not rooted in one's sexual preference - it's a human thing.

And depending on your state, employement laws tend to forbid such actions.

If you don't want to nail them, then get the hell out.

And depending on your state, employement laws tend to forbid such actions.

If you don't want to nail them, then get the hell out.

Taking action against a major corporation isn't free. It costs money.

So I went to work for someone else - a company that could give a shit about being PC.

then a gay pride parade is doing exactly the same thing

can i ask, are you gay or straight?
everyone attends gay pride parades, not just gay people. hell, the closest gay pride event to being exclusive i can think of is the dyke march (they have it in toronto a few days before the big parade... i don't know if similar things happen in other cities as well) as the name alone suggests it's a lesbian only kind of thing, but i'm pretty sure that spectators of all genders and sexual orientations are more than welcome.

the big difference between the gay pride parades and the straight pride parades is that in many places it takes a tremendous amount of courage to come out and admit that you're gay. the parades are a celebration by those who have come out to recognize that they have had the courage to do so.

there isn't anywhere in the world where there's pressure to be gay and where admitting to being straight is looked down upon, so straight pride parades are rather stupid. not that they shoudlnt' be permitted to do so... it's just dumb.

I think most straight people miss the whole point of a gay pride parade. The whole point is to show that you're ashamed of yourself because of the standards society places on you. There's absolutely no point in having a straight pride parade. You're already the majority; you're the socially acceptable.

A straight pride parade is just like a white pride parade (especially back in the 60s). You're not doing it show you're rejecting the shame and derogatory attitudes placed on you. A gay pride parade isn't something to say "Hey, we're better than you, haahahahaha" like some people perceive it as.

In a straight pride parade, you're just doing it to show off and being a bunch of uppity bitches.

No one likes an uppity bitch.

OR they think "Wow gay pride marches are a great idea, they celebrate their sexuality! We should do the same"

I spent hours in human resources mandatory training at Qwest, where I was made to feel ashamed because I am white, male, and heterosexual.

Don't tell me I can't reject that shame, because I do so as often as I can now. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

I will not work for any company anymore who inflicts that sort of training.

Oh, I suppose should you be gay, you'd actually be more acceptable to your friends and family if you came out the closet?

Or is the Qwest PC program truly reflecting society these days?

thats differnet than this, you arnt reading between the lines. they are NOT celebrating their heterosexuality, they are celebrating the fact they arnt gay and are doing it SOLELY to mock homosexuals

a) says who?
b) as long as they don't actually mock any actual homosexuals, their intent is irrelevant
c) do you think that "freaking out the straights" is not one of the aims of many pf the paraders in gay pride parades?

everyone attends gay pride parades, not just gay people. hell, the closest gay pride event to being exclusive i can think of is the dyke march (they have it in toronto a few days before the big parade... i don't know if similar things happen in other cities as well) as the name alone suggests it's a lesbian only kind of thing, but i'm pretty sure that spectators of all genders and sexual orientations are more than welcome.

the big difference between the gay pride parades and the straight pride parades is that in many places it takes a tremendous amount of courage to come out and admit that you're gay. the parades are a celebration by those who have come out to recognize that they have had the courage to do so.

there isn't anywhere in the world where there's pressure to be gay and where admitting to being straight is looked down upon, so straight pride parades are rather stupid. not that they shoudlnt' be permitted to do so... it's just dumb.

who said only minorities can be proud? is there ever a parade on july 4th in america? if there is, is that because americans are a minority in america?

What a bunch of spiteful little bigots.

For those who don't get it, the only point of this parade is to try to give gay people a slap in the face without being too completely up front about it.

Do you know why they have 'gay pride' parades? Because historically speaking in this and many other countries it's been a BIG DEAL to be openly proud of being gay seeing as that kind of thing was likely to get you into some serious trouble. Make you a social pariah if not just plain get you beaten into a messy pulp or even killed.

You don't have a "straight pride" parade in the U.S. for the same reason you don't have a "white power" parade in the U.S... while you personally may never have had anything to do with it, maybe you never for a moment agreed with it, and maybe you even were actively opposed to it... you're a member of the demographic that persecuted the other guys for christ sake, it's in bad taste. What the hell are you celebrating? "Hooray! I'm so proud I managed to get born into the most convenient possible cross-section of society and I've never had to defend it against mass social oppression"???

Well wow, good for you.

PS: For those wondering... no, I'm not gay, I'm just not a blind idiot incapable of seeing the other side of the issue.

Edit: Wow, didn't realize this was 24 pages long already... I'm betting somebody already said something awfully similar to this.

Being white, male, and heterosexual was enough to get you a lecture on how not to bring up your own lifestyle at work.

Actually mentioning that you were a heterosexual was considered oppressive, or mentioning any heterosexual activity ("Hey, I met a nice woman last week, and we're going to go on a date this Friday") was considered oppressive.

Don't tell me that I've never been oppressed, just because I am in some majority group.

Right now, special interest minorities have full rights to abuse people at work.

who said only minorities can be proud? is there ever a parade on july 4th in america? if there is, is that because americans are a minority in america?
i never said that straight people couldn't be proud of their sexuality.

but gay pride parades are more about being proud to come out and be who you are despite pressure to be otherwise. it has nothing to do with being a minority or the majority and everything to do with what has been traditionally socially acceptable and what hasn't. it is about encouraging others to be who you are.

and also, many straight people participate in gay pride parades... it's become more of a celebration of knowing oneself and being yourself and proud of who you are.

Being white, male, and heterosexual was enough to get you a lecture on how not to bring up your own lifestyle at work.

Actually mentioning that you were a heterosexual was considered oppressive, or mentioning any heterosexual activity ("Hey, I met a nice woman last week, and we're going to go on a date this Friday") was considered oppressive.

Don't tell me that I've never been oppressed, just because I am in some majority group.

Right now, special interest minorities have full rights to abuse people at work.
i sincerely doubt that your stories have any truth to them.

and tell me, have you ever been beaten up at work or on the streets for being openly straight? i don't think so, unless your expression of beign openly straight involved hitting on a woman who had a jelous boyfriend or husband.

What a bunch of spiteful little bigots.


I'm spiteful and bigoted because i don't mind a bunch of straight people having a straight people parade? I rather think that "bigoted" means not giving other people a chance, making assumptions about them, etc. And you are somewhat making assumptions about me.


For those who don't get it, the only point of this parade is to try to give gay people a slap in the face without being too completely up front about it.


I don't think you are in a position to guess what the point is. You haven't spoken to any of the people involved. To assume that you know what the point is, based on the fact that the people in quetion are republicans, would be bigoted.



Do you know why they have 'gay pride' parades? Because historically speaking in this and many other countries it's been a BIG DEAL to be openly proud of being gay seeing as that kind of thing was likely to get you into some serious trouble. Make you a social pariah if not just plain get you beaten into a messy pulp or even killed.


Er yes, we know.


You don't have a "straight pride" parade in the U.S. for the same reason you don't have a "white power" parade in the U.S...


Actually, straight pride would be about pride, and white power would be about power. I don't care who has a pride march. Being proud of what you were born is kind of dumb, because it isn't exactly an achievement, but what the hey, go ahead. Wanting power for what you are ISN'T THE SAME THING. So how about a "white pride" march? Fine by me.


while you personally may never have had anything to do with it, maybe you never for a moment agreed with it, and maybe you even were actively opposed to it... you're a member of the demographic that persecuted the other guys for christ sake, it's in bad taste. What the hell are you celebrating? "Hooray! I'm so proud I managed to get born into the most convenient possible cross-section of society and I've never had to defend it against mass social oppression"???

Well wow, good for you.


Whereas "hey i got born into an opressed minority" is worth celebrating? Nice one. And while i'm at it, let's have a "hooray for malaria" day. Straight Pride, should there ever be such a thing, is not the same as Hating Gays, any more than Gay Pride is the same as Hating Straights. What is celebrated is the right of people to be what they are, whether that is straight or gay or black or christian or islamic or whatever. It isn't gayness that is celebrated, but gay people. And in a straight pride march, straight people are celebrated. you might not think that they need celebrating, but who are you to say. Let them parade if they want.


PS: Gor those wondering... no, I'm not gay, I'm just not a blind idiot incapable of seeing the other side of the issue.

You're a blind idiot incapable of seeing double standards. And in case you were wondering, I'm bi. So either march is going to make me cry.

i never said that straight people couldn't be proud of their sexuality.

but gay pride parades are more about being proud to come out and be who you are despite pressure to be otherwise. it has nothing to do with being a minority or the majority and everything to do with what has been traditionally socially acceptable and what hasn't. it is about encouraging others to be who you are.

and also, many straight people participate in gay pride parades... it's become more of a celebration of knowing oneself and being yourself and proud of who you are.

so given that being american is traditionally socially acceptable in america, are there parades on July 4th, and if there are, should we ban them?

What a bunch of spiteful little bigots.

For those who don't get it, the only point of this parade is to try to give gay people a slap in the face without being too completely up front about it.

Do you know why they have 'gay pride' parades? Because historically speaking in this and many other countries it's been a BIG DEAL to be openly proud of being gay seeing as that kind of thing was likely to get you into some serious trouble. Make you a social pariah if not just plain get you beaten into a messy pulp or even killed.

You don't have a "straight pride" parade in the U.S. for the same reason you don't have a "white power" parade in the U.S... while you personally may never have had anything to do with it, maybe you never for a moment agreed with it, and maybe you even were actively opposed to it... you're a member of the demographic that persecuted the other guys for christ sake, it's in bad taste. What the hell are you celebrating? "Hooray! I'm so proud I managed to get born into the most convenient possible cross-section of society and I've never had to defend it against mass social oppression"???

Well wow, good for you.



Are you saying you cant be proud of being in the majority? Have you even considered that the reason for this march might be "Wow, gays have marches to celebrate their sexuality. That sounds like a great idea, lets do the same!"

i sincerely doubt that your stories have any truth to them.

and tell me, have you ever been beaten up at work or on the streets for being openly straight? i don't think so, unless your expression of beign openly straight involved hitting on a woman who had a jelous boyfriend or husband.

Why don't you go to work for Qwest, and find out? You'll spend a significant part of your time attending constant sensitivity training - to a variety of special interest groups.

so given that being american is traditionally socially acceptable in america, are there parades on July 4th, and if there are, should we ban them?
i never said anything about banning anything.

i said that the parade was a stupid idea, but they should be able to do it.

furthermore, the straight pride parade does seem rather exculsive, whereas a parade for the fourth of july would allow for everyone who has chosen to live in the country to celebrate it. if anything, you would be exclusing tourists, but i'm sure they wouldn't care as there are fireworks.

Why don't you go to work for Qwest, and find out? You'll spend a significant part of your time attending constant sensitivity training - to a variety of special interest groups.

sensitivity isn't a bad thing. i've no idea about sensitivity training though.

I'm spiteful and bigoted because i don't mind a bunch of straight people having a straight people parade?

I was speaking of the people having the parade, but I suppose it's entirely possible it applies to you to.

I don't think you are in a position to guess what the point is.

Oh, I think I am. I've met enough of the type, they're not all that complex. Well developed mind reading powers aren't exactly required here.

Actually, straight pride would be about pride, and white power would be about power.

Oh geez... you don't have "white pride" parades either oh perceptive one. And for the same reason.

Whereas "hey i got born into an opressed minority" is worth celebrating? Nice one.

No, whereas "I got born into an oppressed minority [/b]and I'm doing something about it[/b] is worth celebrating.

What is celebrated is the right of people to be what they are,

Except the right of straight people to be what they are has NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED whereas the right of gay people to be what they are has historically been denied to them.... by straight people.

Don't pretend you don't understand this concept, you're just wasting my time and yours.

Why don't you go to work for Qwest, and find out? You'll spend a significant part of your time attending constant sensitivity training - to a variety of special interest groups.
what the hell does this qwest do? i'm a physics major... i'm not about to go to a job where i end up pushing paper.

furthermore, i'm a woman and i'm bicurious, so based on your description, i wouldn't have any problems, though i somehow doubt your description is accurate. and if it was, you could probably enlist the aid of say the aclu since you seem to be in the u.s.

and also, hey, i've been sexually harassed in the workplace. i was working through a temp agency and someone constantly harassed me. i knew that if i said anything, i'd be the one getting canned so you know what i did? i worked until school started again and then i quit. i toughed it out and then left. if it's so terrible at your work, then tough it out until you find a new job.

Are you saying you cant be proud of being in the majority? Have you even considered that the reason for this march might be "Wow, gays have marches to celebrate their sexuality. That sounds like a great idea, lets do the same!"

Not seriously, no. And if you did I'd suggest you're being terribly naive.

i never said anything about banning anything.

i said that the parade was a stupid idea, but they should be able to do it.

furthermore, the straight pride parade does seem rather exculsive, whereas a parade for the fourth of july would allow for everyone who has chosen to live in the country to celebrate it. if anything, you would be exclusing tourists, but i'm sure they wouldn't care as there are fireworks.

if tourists can go to july 4th and straight people can go to gay pride, i'm sure that gay people could show their solidarity and openness to other people's sexuality by visiting with the straight pride parade. i would.

Not seriously, no. And if you did I'd suggest you're being terribly naive.

I suggest you're being enormously paranoid. You should probably ask the republican dudes why they are parading, but i suspect their motives are along the lines of demonstrating that straight people should have equal rights to be proud of being straight, but in fact they don't because there is a brand of so-called liberalism that isn't in fact very liberal.

Except the right of straight people to be what they are has NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED whereas the right of gay people to be what they are has historically been denied to them.... by straight people.


I remember receiving mandatory training at Qwest in 2000 which challenged my right to be straight.

I was told that I could not discuss any aspect of my heterosexuality in any way at work that could potentially oppress a homosexual.

Examples given were "discussing an upcoming date with a woman", even if the content were completely benign sexually. Discussing marriage, having children, or anything that heterosexuals take for granted was considered offensive to homosexuals, and therefore forbidden.

What it boiled down to was if you were white, male, and heterosexual, you could only talk about the exact work you were working on - any social talk that everyone used to take for granted was potentially explosive. Everyone in a special interest minority, on the other hand, was not only encouraged to speak out, but to act out.

While it would have not only been bad form (and a firing offense) to ask a woman out (a typical hetero thing), and would have been considered sexual harassment (so we never did it), homosexuals were encouraged to ask people out all the time. And they did so, even if the person was hetero.

If you were hetero and reported that as sexual harassment (even if it happened multiple times), they found a way to fire you.

Repression works both ways.

if tourists can go to july 4th and straight people can go to gay pride, i'm sure that gay people could show their solidarity and openness to other people's sexuality by visiting with the straight pride parade. i would.
perhaps some will. perhaps it would take a number of such annual events that are conducted as a celebration of a sexuality rather than of gay bashing (which some people think this may turn into and thus would probably be a bit nervous about attending)

or hell, better still, let's start having sexuality pride parades in which everyone is included and can celebrate being open about their sexuality... then we'll only be excluding people who have no sex drive whatsoever.

I was speaking of the people having the parade, but I suppose it's entirely possible it applies to you to.

or you


Oh, I think I am. I've met enough of the type, they're not all that complex. Well developed mind reading powers aren't exactly required here.

You've met enough of the type to know how they think? And you aren't bigoted?


Oh geez... you don't have "white pride" parades either oh perceptive one. And for the same reason.

you do have white pride marches, actually.


No, whereas "I got born into an oppressed minority [/b]and I'm doing something about it[/b] is worth celebrating.

doing something about it? what? oppressing the majority by having this parade, getting my own back?



Except the right of straight people to be what they are has NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED whereas the right of gay people to be what they are has historically been denied to them.... by straight people.


So are you willing to swear that your belief is that only those people whose right to be what they are has been challenged are allowed to have parades?

Does this apply to the KKK, Aryan Nations and Nazi Party? All of whom are oppressed minorities?


Don't pretend you don't understand this concept, you're just wasting my time and yours.
I understand your concept, and I understand that it is worthless.

perhaps some will. perhaps it would take a number of such annual events that are conducted as a celebration of a sexuality rather than of gay bashing (which some people think this may turn into and thus would probably be a bit nervous about attending)

or hell, better still, let's start having sexuality pride parades in which everyone is included and can celebrate being open about their sexuality... then we'll only be excluding people who have no sex drive whatsoever.

celibacy is a sexuality - celibates can have a float in the sexuality pride parade.

then we'll only be excluding people who have no sex drive whatsoever.
OMG YUO ARE TEH BIGGOTT DESCREMINETOR WTF!!!

:D

I suggest you're being enormously paranoid. You should probably ask the republican dudes why they are parading, but i suspect their motives are along the lines of demonstrating that straight people should have equal rights to be proud of being straight,

What does that sentence even mean? Really? What would be entailed in giving straight people equal rights to be proud of being straight that they don't already possess, and haven't ALWAYS possessed?

Ummm... people shouldn't have to hide the fact that they're straight from their coworkers or be discriminated against in the workplace if someone finds out they're straight? Oh! Wait! That's already the case... drat.

Ummm... people shouldn't have to hide that they're straight from society in general or be afraid of becoming social pariah's if people find out they're straight? Oh crap... that's already the case too...

Let me see... I'm sure there's something... and spare me the smartass response of "they should be allowed to have a parade to demonstrate for rights they've never been denied in the first place but which members of the slice of society they're representing have actively denied to others" They're allowed, and nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed.

They're just dicks for doing it.

What does that sentence even mean? Really? What would be entailed in giving straight people equal rights to be proud of being straight that they don't already possess, and haven't ALWAYS possessed?

Ummm... people shouldn't have to hide the fact that they're straight from their coworkers or be discriminated against in the workplace if someone finds out they're straight? Oh! Wait! That's already the case... drat.

Ummm... people shouldn't have to hide that they're straight from society in general or be afraid of becoming social pariah's if people find out they're straight? Oh crap... that's already the case too...

Let me see... I'm sure there's something... and spare me the smartass response of "they should be allowed to have a parade to demonstrate for rights they've never been denied in the first place but which members of the slice of society they're representing have actively denied to others" They're allowed, and nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed.

They're just dicks for doing it.

Are you implying that only those who have been opressed have a right to pride marches?

I remember receiving mandatory training at Qwest in 2000 which challenged my right to be straight.

I was told that I could not discuss any aspect of my heterosexuality in any way at work that could potentially oppress a homosexual.

Examples given were "discussing an upcoming date with a woman", even if the content were completely benign sexually. Discussing marriage, having children, or anything that heterosexuals take for granted was considered offensive to homosexuals, and therefore forbidden.

And that's just idiocy. You should take it up with a court.

Are you implying that only those who have been opressed have a right to pride marches?

Here... I'll quote from the post you JUST replied to, and add a little emphasis this time.:

They're allowed, and nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed.

They're just dicks for doing it.

Read for comprehension.

celibacy is a sexuality - celibates can have a float in the sexuality pride parade.
i'm not talking celibacy (not that that's a sexual orientation) people who are celibate might be gay, bi or straight, just not having sex. people with no sex drive may or may not be celibate (having no sex drive does not mean one does not love others and perhaps want to make them happy or want to reproduce)

And that's just idiocy. You should take it up with a court.

Can't do that without money. The lawyer I talked to wanted 20,000 up front just to start things off.

It was cheaper to leave the company and work somewhere else.

Let me see... I'm sure there's something... and spare me the smartass response of "they should be allowed to have a parade to demonstrate for rights they've never been denied in the first place but which members of the slice of society they're representing have actively denied to others" They're allowed, and nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed.

They're just dicks for doing it.


That was my point entirely - you refuse to allow them the space to be proud of their sexuality. The right they are demonstrating for is the right to demonstrate. And you are calling them bigoted dicks for wanting it. You applaud some gays in gay pride and boo some straights in straight pride not because you know them, or because you know what is on their minds or because you have any idea what they are like personally as individuals.

You boo these straight people because they are straight. That's bigoted. That's why they think that they need the parade. Because people like you think they shouldn't have it.

celibacy is a sexuality - celibates can have a float in the sexuality pride parade.

I think you're aiming for asexuality, not celibacy, as one can be gay, straight, or bi as well as celibate. It's a denial of sex, not an inherent lack of desire for sex.

Here... I'll quote from the post you JUST replied to, and add a little emphasis this time.:



Read for comprehension.

Can you prove that they are doing this because they want to be spiteful? Do you KNOW anyone in this Oaklahoma Republican student group? If you dont you have no way of proving these people are doing it out of spite. I think they may be doing it as a reaction to gay pride marches yes, but not a negaitive reaction. More like they like the idea of a pride march based on sexuality and so wanted to do one for themselves.

They're allowed, and nobody is saying they shouldn't be allowed.

They're just dicks for doing it.

well thanks for allowing them.

so are you now saying that people who haven't been oppressed are dicks if they have a parade?

That was my point entirely - you refuse to allow them the space to be proud of their sexuality. The right they are demonstrating for is the right to demonstrate.

They already HAVE the right to demonstrate and they ALWAYS had it.

Care to come up with something else they need to be demonstrating for? How about a demonstration to petition for the right to breath oxygen for free?

You boo these straight people because they are straight.

Uh-huh.. and it slipped your mind that I already mentioned I'M straight?

i'm not talking celibacy (not that that's a sexual orientation) people who are celibate might be gay, bi or straight, just not having sex. people with no sex drive may or may not be celibate (having no sex drive does not mean one does not love others and perhaps want to make them happy or want to reproduce)

in that case people with no sex drive can still celebrate their sexuality, if they want, you know i wouldn't want to imply that there was anything wrong with not wanting to celebrate your sexuality, even if you're straight or gay or whatever, how about an LGBTSE (lesbian, gay, bi, transexual, straight, etc) non-pride march for people who aren't all that proud of their sexuality? and an LGBTSE apathy march for those who dont think their sexuality is worth celebrating?

well thanks for allowing them.

so are you now saying that people who haven't been oppressed are dicks if they have a parade?

Alright, that's it... if you can't be bothered to even read the posts you're responding to our conversation is at an end. I spelled out quite explicitly the factors that made these people pricks for holding this particular parade. If you want to ignore that, fine.

I'll be ignoring you from here on in.

in that case people with no sex drive can still celebrate their sexuality, if they want, you know i wouldn't want to imply that there was anything wrong with not wanting to celebrate your sexuality, even if you're straight or gay or whatever, how about an LGBTSE (lesbian, gay, bi, transexual, straight, etc) non-pride march for people who aren't all that proud of their sexuality? and an LGBTSE apathy march for those who dont think their sexuality is worth celebrating?

"We're here, and we don't fuckin' care!"

Hee. I'd do it.

And that's just idiocy. You should take it up with a court.

It's just as idiotic as someone repressing a homosexual.

But you think for some reason that a heterosexual pride parade is somehow idiotic.

That's what a lot of heteros thought - that a homosexual pride parade was somehow idiotic.

Why?

Why would either one be idiotic? I've been oppressed too, simply because of my sexuality.

I should go be in the parade.

Can you prove that they are doing this because they want to be spiteful?

I'm extremely confident in that conclusion. if you disagree try answering my question to homesteads.

What the heck do they need the parade for? What purpose does it serve? In what manner have straight people EVER been denied the freedom to be proud of being straight? In what manner have straight people EVER been forced to hide or be ashamed of their sexual orientation in our society?

Don't feed me that "oh, they just liked the idea of a parade and wanted to have one too" silliness please. If you want to swallow it, fine, I'm not that naive.

They already HAVE the right to demonstrate and they ALWAYS had it.

And as long as you yell "bigoted dicks" at them every time they do it, and whine on and on about how they shouldn't be doing it, because they are nasty republicans metaphorically slapping homosexuals in the face with every step in their parade, you are only according them the legal and not the moral right to celebrate their sexuality. Since homosexuals have the legal right to be homosexual, should they not stop parading too? No, they shouldn't. They parade for recognition of their moral right, their inherent value as people etc. And you aren't according the straight marchers their inherent value as people.


Care to come up with something else they need to be demonstrating for? How about a demonstration to petition for the right to breath oxygen for free?

And if they did that, would you call them bigots? would you say they were slapping the faces of anaerobic and gilled organisms? I suspect that you wouldn't, and that means there is some difference betweeen marching for straightness and marching for oxygen.


Uh-huh.. and it slipped your mind that I already mentioned I'M straight?

So you are a straight person who is bigoted against republicans who want to celebrate their straightness. So?

Why?

I explained why in considerable detail already.

I'm not repeating myself.

I'm extremely confident in that conclusion. if you disagree try answering my question to homesteads.

What the heck do they need the parade for? What purpose does it serve? In what manner have straight people EVER been denied the freedom to be proud of being straight? In what manner have straight people EVER been forced to hide or be ashamed of their sexual orientation in our society?

Don't feed me that "oh, they just liked the idea of a parade and wanted to have one too" silliness please. If you want to swallow it, fine, I'm not that naive.

Why do homosexuals need to parade any more? They have got what they wanted, social acceptence. By your logic only those who have ever been opressed have rights to pride marches. Thats clearly not true. And if you believe it is, surely then Neo-Nazis, the BNP and Al-Quieda have right to protest marches on the grounds that they have been opressed.

well thanks for allowing them.

so are you now saying that people who haven't been oppressed are dicks if they have a parade?


Alright, that's it... if you can't be bothered to even read the posts you're responding to our conversation is at an end. I spelled out quite explicitly the factors that made these people pricks for holding this particular parade. If you want to ignore that, fine.

I'll be ignoring you from here on in.

Nice tactic. And when you're losing at checkers do you accidentally knock the board over?

Anyone else, please read back over Reformentia's posts, and let me know if s/he didn't say that everyone who has a parade who hasn't been oppressed is a dick.

What the heck do they need the parade for? What purpose does it serve? In what manner have straight people EVER been denied the freedom to be proud of being straight? In what manner have straight people EVER been forced to hide or be ashamed of their sexual orientation in our society?


It happened to me. I was denied the freedom to be proud of being straight. I was forced to hide and be ashamed of my sexual orientation.

Given that Qwest at the time had about 60,000 employees, and the training was mandatory, and if we take the estimate of 1 in 10 being gay or lesbian, then that leaves 54,000 heterosexuals who were subjected to the same idiotic oppressive training as I was.

That would be a rather large parade of people who could, in all fairness, claim that they were denied the freedom to be proud of being straight.

And it wouldn't be silly.

What the heck do they need the parade for? What purpose does it serve? In what manner have straight people EVER been denied the freedom to be proud of being straight? In what manner have straight people EVER been forced to hide or be ashamed of their sexual orientation in our society?

Do you have to *need* a parade? It's a parade for fuck's sake. The purpose it serves is to get out and about and have a laugh, wave some banners, get dressed up, play at majorettes, and so on. Does the president *need* a parade? Are the Dallas Cowboys oppressed?

If it doesn't serve any purpose, why are you so averse to admitting that they might be doing it because they like themselves and they like parades?

Can't do that without money. The lawyer I talked to wanted 20,000 up front just to start things off.

It was cheaper to leave the company and work somewhere else.
are you the only straight man at your work?

if not, others must have problems with this policy as well, get everyone together and chip in for legal fees and sue as a group.

are you the only straight man at your work?

if not, others must have problems with this policy as well, get everyone together and chip in for legal fees and sue as a group.

I was one of the few straight men in that department, and the climate was one of fear. We didn't dare talk about it at work.

We left for other companies. But we've noticed that major corporations love classes like these. Your best bet to survive in a PC world is to move to consulting to smaller companies.

Ok, this is my last post in this thread since it's proven a futile waste of energy.

Why the Oklahoma Republicans holding their "straight pride" parade are bigotted dicks: (Note that it consists of considerable more than the single statement "people who weren't oppressed shouldn't be allowed to have parades..." ) :headbang:

It is ridiculously, painfully obvious that the point of this parade is to take a backhanded slap at gay people and their parades. It's nothing but a reactionary retaliation aimed at anyone who would be so uppity as to actually be proud of being gay. I have seen the same concept at work many, many times and I have seen not one single thing in this thread which lends me to think this is the fabled exception that proves the rule.

There is no need whatsoever for a "straight pride" parade except to serve as some kind of counter-demonstration against "gay pride" parades. Straight people in our society have never been encouraged to be ashamed of their sexual orientation (I don't need the story again Whispering... clearly isolated case that is not in any way indicative of our society as a whole). Straight people have never had ANYTHING to fear from society 'finding out' they were straight... and the whole damn POINT of "gay pride" parades is for gay people to get out in the open, in front of everyone, completely exposed as what they are... and show that you CAN BE proud of it. That you dont have to be ashamed of being gay, like society has taught for a very long time. That you don't have to fear being discovered as gay like society has taught for a very long time.

Is thefact that there is no good reason for this parade the only thing that makes the "straight pride" people bigotted dicks? No. That alone wouldn't do the job. Nothing wrong with having a parade for no good reason, parades can be their own reason after all. They're fun.

But there's some things it's just in very bad taste to have a parade for. For example, you do not have a "white pride" parade in the United States.

Is it because there's some reason to be ashamed that you're white? No. Is it because you're not supposed to BE proud that you're white? No. It's because "pride" parades have a certain social significance associated with them that is completely innapropriate for use by members of societal demographics that NOT ONLY have never been prevented from being proud of what they are but who were the ones actively preventing others from doing the fucking same and CAUSING them to need to have THEIR parades in the first goddamn place just to try to fight back!

Throwing a "white pride" parade or a "straight pride" parade trivializes and insults the trials and sacrifices the members of those other groups had to go through just to get to the point where they could have a parade... struggles imposed upon them BY the group you now want to have a "pride" parade for. And don't even try to SUGGEST to me that the people throwing this particular parade don't know that because I've run across way too many groups like this. They know it damn well... and it's WHY. THEY'RE. DOING. IT. They get to take a shot at the homos but they get to hide behind the "it's just a parade, a celebration of who we are!" facade.

Feel free to disagree and say it's entirely possible they just thought it was a "fun idea", I'm not that naive and I'm done with this thread.

But there's some things it's just in very bad taste to have a parade for. For example, you do not have a "white pride" parade in the United States.


Common misconception. Having pride in your own race does not mean hating all other races. Same with sexuality.


They know it damn well... and it's WHY. THEY'RE. DOING. IT. They get to take a shot at the homos but they get to hide behind the "it's just a parade, a celebration of who we are!" facade.

Feel free to disagree and say it's entirely possible they just thought it was a "fun idea", I'm not that naive and I'm done with this thread.

Have you got any proof beyond your own pesimistic logic? If you only allow gay pride marches then you give some kind of supiriorty to gays as they can have these marches. Its unfair, and if you cant prove yourself you have no right to make these aligations.

Common misconception. Having pride in your own race does not mean hating all other races. Same with sexuality.

The people that have white pride events tend to not like the others.


Have you got any proof beyond your own pesimistic logic? If you only allow gay pride marches then you give some kind of supiriorty to gays as they can have these marches. Its unfair, and if you cant prove yourself you have no right to make these aligations.

The very reason of it begs the question. The fact that the Republican club is running it begs the question.

The need for a hetro pride week is needed as much as a pride week for having O Positive blood.

Can you prove that they are doing this because they want to be spiteful? Do you KNOW anyone in this Oaklahoma Republican student group? If you dont you have no way of proving these people are doing it out of spite. I think they may be doing it as a reaction to gay pride marches yes, but not a negaitive reaction. More like they like the idea of a pride march based on sexuality and so wanted to do one for themselves.

Yes, and I'm sure that was the point of the Affirmative Action Bake Sale as well..

Neo darling, you really shouldn't try to jump into American politics - you don't have a clue.

It's just as idiotic as someone repressing a homosexual.

But you think for some reason that a heterosexual pride parade is somehow idiotic.

That's what a lot of heteros thought - that a homosexual pride parade was somehow idiotic.

Why?

Why would either one be idiotic? I've been oppressed too, simply because of my sexuality.

I should go be in the parade.

Anyone being "proud" of their sexuality would be idiotic. It would be like me saying "I am proud that I menstruate!" or "I am proud that my heartbeat speeds up when I exercise!"

Meanwhile, as has been pointed out more than enough times on this thread, gay pride parades are not about being proud of homosexuality - they are about not being ashamed of it.

Yes, and I'm sure that was the point of the Affirmative Action Bake Sale as well..

Neo darling, you really shouldn't try to jump into American politics - you don't have a clue.

Would you please stop calling me darling/dear/love etc/. It is patronising and irritiating. My point is, since you have no proof as to the thoughts of the republicans organising said rally, you have no reason to assume that they thought along the lines you suggest.

they are about not being ashamed of it.

That's the same thing. If your not ashamed of something you are either indiffrent or prideful.

Would you please stop calling me darling/dear/love etc/. It is patronising and irritiating. My point is, since you have no proof as to the thoughts of the republicans organising said rally, you have no reason to assume that they thought along the lines you suggest.

Well many repubplicans are conservative christians. They don't like gays. You do the math.....

Well see, theres a GOOD reason for gay pride parades; discrimination. For years, and even today to an extent, GBLT people couldn't be openly proud of their identity, so now that they can celebrate it, why not?

But straight people have always been the norm, so their motives are obviously suss in launching this celebration.

Besides, who wants to see a bunch of flabby young white guys with side-partings and sunburn celebrating their sexuality? (I'm basing this on what I've seen of conservative students on campus...)

Well many repubplicans are conservative christians. They don't like gays. You do the math.....

You know nothing about Christianity and homosexuality then. I dont want to go into detail now (Unless you want to, but I warn you it could take some time) but the basic line of the Bible is yes it is a sin, but so is loads of other activities. You dont hate perpretraitors of sin, you hate sin.

You know nothing about Christianity and homosexuality then. I dont want to go into detail now (Unless you want to, but I warn you it could take some time) but the basic line of the Bible is yes it is a sin, but so is loads of other activities. You dont hate perpretraitors of sin, you hate sin.

Sorry lad, ex-alter boy.

You don't know anything about Oklahoma let alone the US and its politics.

Now for Religion. The Bible is one thing; the followers are something else. The fact is many Christians have problems with Homosexuals. Some to the point of wanting laws against them and even a few want to hurt them.

But it's easier to sit back and say "Hey they aren't really Christians" rather then admitting there are many bad Christians.

Why do homosexuals need to parade any more? They have got what they wanted, social acceptence.

Seriously Neo, do you live in a basement? Are you a child? Anyone who could possibly make such an idiotic statement must meet one of the above conditions.

Would you please stop calling me darling/dear/love etc/. It is patronising and irritiating.

I'm sorry, but when I see a childish sentiment, I get the motherly urge to coddle the person expressing it. Perhaps if you weren't so very naive.

My point is, since you have no proof as to the thoughts of the republicans organising said rally, you have no reason to assume that they thought along the lines you suggest.

Considering that I have spoken to more than one person from similar groups putting on similar displays, I have quite a bit of insight into the reasoning behind it.

That's the same thing. If your not ashamed of something you are either indiffrent or prideful.

And the only way to be logical about sexuality is to be indifferent.

Are you proud of having testosterone? Are you proud of peeing? Are you proud of having pubic hair?

Alright... this time I SWEAR it's my last post in the thread. I just really have to ask this...

Common misconception. Having pride in your own race does not mean hating all other races.

Are you blind? There were sentences follwing that one that clearly explained why a "white pride" parade in the U.S. was innappropriate and not a single damn one of them said "having pride in your race means you hate other races".

Ok, now no matter what idiocy I see from her on in I swear a solemn oath I am finished with this thread...

Are you proud of peeing?

YES!

I don't like the idea of exploding like a water balloon! :p

YES!

I don't like the idea of exploding like a water balloon! :p
Reminds me of "pop goes the wesal" for some reason lol

Are you blind? There were sentences follwing that one that clearly explained why a "white pride" parade in the U.S. was innappropriate and not a single damn one of them said "having pride in your race means you hate other races".

Ok, now no matter what idiocy I see from her on in I swear a solemn oath I am finished with this thread...

You can be proud of your own race and not be hateful of others, thats plain commen sense. You can be prideful of your own race and still have admiriation and respect for others. While previous "white power" rallys may have been raceist, that doesnt mean being proud of being white is wrong

Seriously Neo, do you live in a basement? Are you a child? Anyone who could possibly make such an idiotic statement must meet one of the above conditions.

I dont know where you live, but where I live anything less than a postive endorcement of a homosexual lifestyle often brings charges of homophobia.

They do have the right do, but I definatly think their motives are a bit skewed here. The reasons why gays have gay pride week is because they are not suppose to be gay, but they are, and they are proud of it. Its not like there is a massive movement to turn everyone gay and that is why their needs to be a straight pride week. Its like protesting that we didnt go to Iraq.

let's put this in another way. black pride parade and white power parade.

They do have the right do, but I definatly think their motives are a bit skewed here. The reasons why gays have gay pride week is because they are not suppose to be gay, but they are, and they are proud of it. Its not like there is a massive movement to turn everyone gay and that is why their needs to be a straight pride week. Its like protesting that we didnt go to Iraq.

So are you saying only minoritiys have valid reasons to have said marches?

let's put this in another way. black pride parade and white power parade.
A closer comparison of intent would be a white power parade and a Nation of Islam parade.

You can be proud of your own race and not be hateful of others, thats plain commen sense. You can be prideful of your own race and still have admiriation and respect for others. While previous "white power" rallys may have been raceist, that doesnt mean being proud of being white is wrong

Being proud of your skin colour isn't wrong, it's idiotic.

I dont know where you live, but where I live anything less than a postive endorcement of a homosexual lifestyle often brings charges of homophobia.

...which (a) is unlikely to actually be true and is more likely to be a figment of your imagination and (b) says nothing whatsoever to refute my statement.

...that doesnt mean being proud of being white is wrong


Hang on, I just thought...

...isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins?

You can be proud of your own race and not be hateful of others, thats plain commen sense. You can be prideful of your own race and still have admiriation and respect for others. While previous "white power" rallys may have been raceist, that doesnt mean being proud of being white is wrong

I am proud that my fingernails grow. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have toenails. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have blood cells. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that the sun rises. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that my phone just rang. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have lines on my hand. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I urinate. I'm going to hold a march for it.

None of the above are *wrong*, but I think we'd all agree that they are silly. You can't be proud of something you didn't cause/do.

Dem, you need a :fluffle:

You haven't justified anything with an intellegent responce.
You spelled "intelligent" incorrectly. When attempting to correct him. And he spelled it right. You also spelled "response" incorrectly.

Dem, you need a :fluffle:

YAY! :fluffle:

But can I still march for my fingernails?

There needs to be a National Unity March for Fluffles.

Everyone needs a fluffle.

I am proud that my fingernails grow. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have toenails. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have blood cells. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that the sun rises. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that my phone just rang. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I have lines on my hand. I'm going to hold a march for it.

I am proud that I urinate. I'm going to hold a march for it.

None of the above are *wrong*, but I think we'd all agree that they are silly. You can't be proud of something you didn't cause/do.

Damn san-fransisco is hard to walk around when its raining...

(I hope I dont have to explain that)

...which (a) is unlikely to actually be true and is more likely to be a figment of your imagination and (b) says nothing whatsoever to refute my statement.

Personally I think a heterosexual parade is a great idea. I know I'm very proud to be heterosexual, just like homosexuals are proud of THEIR sexual preference. I think I actually might fly to Oklahoma to participate.

YAY! :fluffle:

But can I still march for my fingernails?
if that pleases you

:fluffle: from me as well! (the king of fluffles ... which reminds me I really got to get back in the habbit ... been arguing too much latly) :fluffle:

Personally I think a heterosexual parade is a great idea. I know I'm very proud to be heterosexual, just like homosexuals are proud of THEIR sexual preference. I think I actually might fly to Oklahoma to participate.
then you are more interested in deriding homosexuals rather than celebrating heterosexuality

So are you saying only minoritiys have valid reasons to have said marches?
This is giving me a headache. Seriously.

What are you overcoming with a majority parade? What are you celebrating? Why are you demonstrating your normness?

When you are part of a majority this large, everyday is your parade.

This 'me too' logic of "If they get a parade, then I want one, too!!!" is not only juvinial (I want a lollipop, too daddy) but speaks to a greater misunderstanding about what pride celebrations are about.

So you can have one. And if you think it's just about everyone gets their own parade, we reserve the right to think you're a moron.

then you are more interested in deriding homosexuals rather than celebrating heterosexuality
How do you figure?

How do you figure?
this parade is not for celebrating heterosexuality, the main point is to mock homosexuals by having a heterosexual pride parade instead of a gay pride parade, and thats the specific purpose

How do you figure?

It's called mockery and in this case is purely childish. Now what do you suppose these conservatives would do if some GLBT alliance or liberally leaning group decided to have a mock fest of its own? I can guarantee you few conservatives would still be singing the virtues of reciprocity.

It's called mockery and in this case is purely childish. Now what do you suppose these conservatives would do if some GLBT alliance or liberally leaning group decided to have a mock fest of its own? I can guarantee you few conservatives would still be singing the virtues of reciprocity.
And here I thought the gay pride parade was originally a “mockery” of St Patrick’s day which they were not allowed to march in (hey I am all for gay pride and equality and I don’t like cheep knockoffs but if these people are generally proud of what they are … I say go for it no matter what creed color sex or anything else you are)

Being proud of your skin colour isn't wrong, it's idiotic.

I like the way you think Moonshine. *hands her/him a cookie*

And here I thought the gay pride parade was originally a “mockery” of St Patrick’s day which they were not allowed to march in (hey I am all for gay pride and equality and I don’t like cheep knockoffs but if these people are generally proud of what they are … I say go for it no matter what creed color sex or anything else you are)

I doubt many of those people you see marching in those things have a clue nor care about St. Patty.

I doubt many of those people you see marching in those things have a clue nor care about St. Patty.
Yeah but maybe that will be how it is in a few years with the strait pride parade?

Yeah but maybe that will be how it is in a few years with the strait pride parade?
Has a lot more to do with things like Stonewall (http://www.socialistalternative.com/literature/stonewall.html)

The reactions seen here are proof that both parade ideas are absolutely ludicrous.

Seriously, if gay people can have a parade, then why not straight people?
It would be discriminatory to allow one and not the other.

Seriously, "PC" should actually be called "BS". If you want equality, let's be equal. Last time I checked preferential treatment is not equal treatment.

If you don't like straight people marching, then gay people shouldn't either. Period.

If you disagree with my statement, then you're a hypocrite.

Has a lot more to do with things like Stonewall (http://www.socialistalternative.com/literature/stonewall.html)
cool (though was thinking parade format) but always nice to learn something new :fluffle:

this parade is not for celebrating heterosexuality, the main point is to mock homosexuals by having a heterosexual pride parade instead of a gay pride parade, and thats the specific purpose

I argue that gay pride parades are not celebrating homosexuality, but mocking heterosexuals for their life choices.

There's always two sides to a fence. Look at your side you're on before you judge the other.

The reactions seen here are proof that both parade ideas are absolutely ludicrous.

Seriously, if gay people can have a parade, then why not straight people?
It would be discriminatory to allow one and not the other.

Seriously, "PC" should actually be called "BS". If you want equality, let's be equal. Last time I checked preferential treatment is not equal treatment.

If you don't like straight people marching, then gay people shouldn't either. Period.

If you disagree with my statement, then you're a hypocrite.
hey are only a hypocrite if they believe in equality and disagree ... that first part has to be there (figured I would point that out) (and not arguing intentions)

The Republicans are right on that. Currently there is no pride given to white Christian straight males. Only to everyone else.

I argue that gay pride parades are not celebrating homosexuality, but mocking heterosexuals for their life choices.

There's always two sides to a fence. Look at your side you're on before you judge the other.

Hey, we can't make them get it. Might as well cease to waste anymore energy in explaining their hypocracies to them.

The reactions seen here are proof that both parade ideas are absolutely ludicrous.

Seriously, if gay people can have a parade, then why not straight people?
It would be discriminatory to allow one and not the other.

Seriously, "PC" should actually be called "BS". If you want equality, let's be equal. Last time I checked preferential treatment is not equal treatment.

If you don't like straight people marching, then gay people shouldn't either. Period.

If you disagree with my statement, then you're a hypocrite.
No one is saying they can't have thier little parade. Their reasoning is suspect, however. As has been hashed and rehashed.

this parade is not for celebrating heterosexuality, the main point is to mock homosexuals by having a heterosexual pride parade instead of a gay pride parade, and thats the specific purpose

Its not mocking anything, why do gays get a parade and heteros dont? By trying to be fair and not make stereotypes you are being a stereotypist yourself!

Gay Pride parades are for gays who want to celebrate the fact that they are normal people and not some degenerate freaks that ought to be locked up or executed.

Straight Pride parades are like a hot poker in the face of gays, in the same vein of Illinois Nazis-

"I hate Illinois Nazis!!"

- holding a parade in Skokie.

hey are only a hypocrite if they believe in equality and disagree ... that first part has to be there (figured I would point that out) (and not arguing intentions)

I guess I should have worded my statement differently. Let me try that again :-)

If you believe that a straight parade shouldn't be held, then you should also believe the same about gay parades.

If not, you're being a hypocrite.

This country must provide equal protection under the law, and as such by saying straight people do not have the same right of assembly as gays then that is also hypocritical.

Better? :-D

Gay Pride parades are for gays who want to celebrate the fact that they are normal people and not some degenerate freaks that ought to be locked up or executed.

Right.

Straight Pride parades are like a hot poker in the face of gays, in the same vein of Illinois Nazis-

Wrong. Apply the top half to heterosexuals, and than you've got it right. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe heterosexuals would like to celebrate who they are.

Right.



Wrong. Apply the top half to heterosexuals, and than you've got it right. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe heterosexuals would like to celebrate who they are.
except for in this case the 2nd part applies.

I argue that gay pride parades are not celebrating homosexuality, but mocking heterosexuals for their life choices.

There's always two sides to a fence. Look at your side you're on before you judge the other.
Alright, but let's actually look at the other side.

There is the aforementioned Stonewall (http://www.socialistalternative.com/literature/stonewall.html). Then there are things like Larmie(sp), etc. There is the first amendment to limit peoples rights since Prohabition being argued, religous groups being up in arms about homosexuality be present, people who are told to be ashamed of who they are, that they are gross and unatural or can be 'cured.' So they have a parade to say that they are who they are and they are not afraid.

Now. Why the straight parade? Is there something you're overcoming, or are you just wanting a parade, too, because you feel left out?

No one is saying they can't have thier little parade. Their reasoning is suspect, however. As has been hashed and rehashed.

There is absolutely nothing either proving or disproving what their motives are.

If you believe their motives are suspect that's fine. However, all I ask is that you examine the possibility that gay parades are designed to do the same exact thing that you so heavily criticize the Republicans for doing.

If you don't, that's hypocritical and shortsided. Period. No if's, and's, or but's about it.

except for in this case the 2nd part applies.

You go ahead and pretend that. You're just prejudice against heterosexuals.

Its not mocking anything, why do gays get a parade and heteros dont? By trying to be fair and not make stereotypes you are being a stereotypist yourself!
listen you incompetent buffoons. i have not ONCE said in this thread heterosexuals cant have a straight pride parade or shouldnt, however i have REPEATEDLY stated the people holding THIS parade are doing it PURPOSEFULLY to mock gay pride parades and it is NOT for straight pride, however since everyone is obviously too stupid to get that from the article despite it being obvious, i guess they are too stupid to realise thats what i have been saying a 100 times over

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe heterosexuals would like to celebrate who they are.
I find it hard to believe they really want to celebrate being relatively unremarkable. That being said, if they want a parade I don't give a crap go ahead and have one.. I just doubt they are celebrating a trait 98% of people have.

You go ahead and pretend that. You're just prejudice against heterosexuals.
no, im prejudiced against stupid people, a faction of humanity you appear to be a part of

except for in this case the 2nd part applies.

Why? Seriously no one has yet given a good reason as to why a straight pride march is insulting, other than "Oh of course it is" or "there is nothing speicial about being straight". If being Gay is not "normal" as the postmodern PC brigade say it is then how come it has a pride march and hetrosexuals cant. You cannot oppose one and not the other.

I have a button they can borrow:

"Straight...but not narrow."

Why? Seriously no one has yet given a good reason as to why a straight pride march is insulting, other than "Oh of course it is" or "there is nothing speicial about being straight". If being Gay is not "normal" as the postmodern PC brigade say it is then how come it has a pride march and hetrosexuals cant. You cannot oppose one and not the other.
you are also a part of the stupid faction of society i see

i have been stating my point since page fucking one, i will not state it again

I find it hard to believe they really want to celebrate being relatively unremarkable.

By this logic are you saying homosexuals are remarkeable/diffrent/wired?

you are also a part of the stupid faction of society i see
And on what basis do you call him stupid? (I do not always agree with his viewpoint but that is moot)

you are also a part of the stupid faction of society i see

i have been stating my point since page fucking one, i will not state it again

Your point is flawed. Since you cant prove that this is done out of mallace you can only assume and that is not proof. There is no way for you to suggest this is exactly the same as a gay pride march but with an alternitive foucus.

(Also, the personal attack is un nessecary)

By this logic are you saying homosexuals are remarkeable/diffrent/wired?
Statistically speaking yes. Homosexuality is generally uncommon, making up about 2-2.5% of the general population. Heterosexuality is the overwhelming norm. I guess a bad analogy would be people celebrating the fact that they are not retarded. Yeah well most people aren't. Why would they feel the need to point this fact out?

There is absolutely nothing either proving or disproving what their motives are.

If you believe their motives are suspect that's fine. However, all I ask is that you examine the possibility that gay parades are designed to do the same exact thing that you so heavily criticize the Republicans for doing.

If you don't, that's hypocritical and shortsided. Period. No if's, and's, or but's about it.
Except, slugger, that you edited out the part about what the gay pride parades are about. Specificly.

Now, if you please, in the same detail explain how this parade is something other than 'me too-ism' and would be any different than any heterosexuals normal day.

Statistically speaking yes. Homosexuality is generally uncommon, making up about 2-2.5% of the general population. Heterosexuality is the overwhelming norm. I guess a bad analogy would be people celebrating the fact that they are not retarded. Yeah well most people aren't. Why would they feel the need to point this fact out?
But the parade is not about being NOT gay (as with your analogy of being NOT retarded) but rather a celebration of what the gifted? I mean lets say a smart parade?

That is not quite the same thing nor the same intent

Your point is flawed. Since you cant prove that this is done out of mallace you can only assume and that is not proof. There is no way for you to suggest this is exactly the same as a gay pride march but with an alternitive foucus.

(Also, the personal attack is un nessecary)
please provide any time republicans have done anything but degrade homosexuals and insist homsoexuality is a disease and anyone acknowledging its very existance is "evil"

Now, if you please, in the same detail explain how this parade is something other than 'me too-ism' and would be any different than any heterosexuals normal day.

Ever consider that "me too-ism" as you call it isnt a bad thing. They proberbly though "Homosexuals celebrate thier sexuality. Thats a great idea, lets do the same!". If anything that demonstrates respect for the homosexuals and what they are doing.

Wrong. Apply the top half to heterosexuals, and than you've got it right. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe heterosexuals would like to celebrate who they are.

Can you or anyone else cite any accurate moments in history where heterosexuals have been persecuted, locked up or executed solely on their sexual orientation?

Cute Blues Brothers quote aside, I do think this Straight Pride thing is a thumb in the nose and eyes of gays and bisexuals in Oklahoma much as the Illinois Nazis marching in Skokie was/would have been to the Jewish community there.

Alright, but let's actually look at the other side.

There is the aforementioned Stonewall (http://www.socialistalternative.com/literature/stonewall.html). Then there are things like Larmie(sp), etc. There is the first amendment to limit peoples rights since Prohabition being argued, religous groups being up in arms about homosexuality be present, people who are told to be ashamed of who they are, that they are gross and unatural or can be 'cured.' So they have a parade to say that they are who they are and they are not afraid.

Now. Why the straight parade? Is there something you're overcoming, or are you just wanting a parade, too, because you feel left out?

Ask yourself the same question about gay parades. The only reason to hold a parade is to draw attention, right?

So why do gay people need to have attention paid to them? Is it a social disorder? Is it because the "big bad heteros oppressed them for so long"?

I don't CARE if a person is gay. All I ask is that they don't hit on me and don't go around advertising it for attention.

Someday in this world we gotta learn that equal rights means EQUAL RIGHTS! Rights are designed not to just protect the minorities, but the majority as well. And the right of the Oaklahoma Republicans is to hold a straight parade.

So really it doesn't matter the reasoning behind it. What it means is that people that disapprove of their rights to assemble yet support gay rights aren't interested in equal rights, but rather preferential treatment.

It's absolute hogwash. And I'm sorry if you cannot see that gay parades can be construed as bashing heterosexuality. But that's your own shortsidedness, not mine.

So good day.

Here's the difference: Homosexuals have something to fight for. Equality and equal rights. They're constantly discriminated against, and just want to prove that, besides who they love, they are like everyone else and deserve to be treated as such.

These heteros aren't being discriminated against. They have equal rights. They aren't discriminated again. They just want to have their cake and eat it too, by celebrating themselves by having a parade for something that's already well accepted. They don't need a parade, but of course, if gay people try to celebrate there lifestyle, you need to try and do that and prove you're better. What have you got to celebrate, to prove, other than the fact you're not gay? This is why I think it's discriminatory.

Personally, I hate the gay pride parades myself, but I hate the idea of this, the straight pride parade, even more. The gay pride parade isn't so much a gay pride parade as a fetish pride parade. I'll sure if some poor, closeted guy up in his office sees a parade going by below him with fancifull femmes and bears dressed in S&M gear, he's not going to feel any more comfortable about himself or coming out.

Oh, and if you didn't know, I am gay, if that legitimizes my opinion on the pride parade any.

please provide any time republicans have done anything but degrade homosexuals and insist homsoexuality is a disease and anyone acknowledging its very existance is "evil"
Can point out plenty of “republicans” that don’t do that what’s your point?

But the parade is not about being NOT gay (as with your analogy of being NOT retarded) but rather a celebration of what the gifted? I mean lets say a smart parade?

That is not quite the same thing nor the same intent
Ok a parade about having a statistically average intelligence. You're just arguing semantics now. I said it was a bad analogy, but I still think it illustrates a point.

please provide any time republicans have done anything but degrade homosexuals and insist homsoexuality is a disease and anyone acknowledging its very existance is "evil"

In this day and age, anything less than an entusiastic positive endorsement of a homosexual lifestyle comes under what you say so rearly your point is flawed. Because of the PC brigade, we have a world so afraid of insulting anyone, we all have to put them on a pedistal all the time and not see them merely as equals but special/supirior.

Can point out plenty of “republicans” that don’t do that what’s your point?
i mean the republican party, the gop, etc. i dont mean people who declare themselves republican. find and instance anyone within the party has done anything of the sort

Here's the difference: Homosexuals have something to fight for. Equality and equal rights. They're constantly discriminated against, and just want to prove that, besides who they love, they are like everyone else and deserve to be treated as such.

These heteros aren't being discriminated against. They have equal rights. They aren't discriminated again. They just want to have their cake and eat it too, by celebrating themselves by having a parade for something that's already well accepted. They don't need a parade, but of course, if gay people try to celebrate there lifestyle, you need to try and do that and prove you're better. What have you got to celebrate, to prove, other than the fact you're not gay? This is why I think it's discriminatory.

Personally, I hate the gay pride parades myself, but I hate the idea of this, the straight pride parade, even more. The gay pride parade isn't so much a gay pride parade as a fetish pride parade. I'll sure if some poor, closeted guy up in his office sees a parade going by below him with fancifull femmes and bears dressed in S&M gear, he's not going to feel any more comfortable about himself or coming out.

Oh, and if you didn't know, I am gay, if that legitimizes my opinion on the pride parade any.

So your saying that only those discriminated against have anything to celebrate pride?

In this day and age, anything less than an entusiastic positive endorsement of a homosexual lifestyle comes under what you say so rearly your point is flawed. Because of the PC brigade, we have a world so afraid of insulting anyone, we all have to put them on a pedistal all the time and not see them merely as equals but special/supirior.
i said:

provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

Ok a parade about having a statistically average intelligence. You're just arguing semantics now. I said it was a bad analogy, but I still think it illustrates a point.
I don’t know what would be the point? What would be the point to having a (excuse me if I put the wrong PC word in here) mentally handicapped? (or are they specially able now? I get confused)

I guess I come from the libertarian point of view if that means anything about my thinking

i mean the republican party, the gop, etc. i dont mean people who declare themselves republican. find and instance anyone within the party has done anything of the sort

So you want to make blatant across-the-board statements of the GOP based on a stereotype and not look at the individuals of which make up the group?

Sounds like blatant stereotyping and bias to me. How about everbody else?

i mean the republican party, the gop, etc. i dont mean people who declare themselves republican. find and instance anyone within the party has done anything of the sort
But almost no person follows their party exactly so if they in other ways are republican but don’t agree with some of the religious mumbo jumbo they aren’t republican?

And that is just current incarnation both parties have wondered over time and you qualified with “ever” what have they “Ever” done for gay rights.

Now a great analogy is...

Straight Pride Parade : Gay Pride Parade
White Pride Parade : Black Pride Parade

i said:

provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

And I said that today anything less than an enthusiastic endorcement of a homosexual lifestyle is deemed to be the equivlent of your scenerio.

But almost no person follows their party exactly so if they in other ways are republican but don’t agree with some of the religious mumbo jumbo they aren’t republican?

And that is just current incarnation both parties have wondered over time and you qualified with “ever” what have they “Ever” done for gay rights.
...
i said:


provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

And I said that today anything less than an enthusiastic endorcement of a homosexual lifestyle is deemed to be the equivlent of your scenerio.
i point to the episode of pbs where there was a lesbian couple shown, the episode was not about them, members of the republican party denounced it

but then again, you have yet to prove anything

i said


provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

Lol, silly, if the republican party ever did that they'd be evil, evil liberals bent on destroying American society.

i point to the episode of pbs where there was a lesbian couple shown, the episode was not about them, members of the republican party denounced it

but then again, you have yet to prove anything

i said


provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

Why? What relevence would it have to your arguement?

Ask yourself the same question about gay parades. The only reason to hold a parade is to draw attention, right?
Hmm. I believe I did. I think my response was:
There is the aforementioned Stonewall. Then there are things like Larmie(sp), etc. There is the first amendment to limit peoples rights since Prohabition being argued, religous groups being up in arms about homosexuality be present, people who are told to be ashamed of who they are, that they are gross and unatural or can be 'cured.' So they have a parade to say that they are who they are and they are not afraid.

So why do gay people need to have attention paid to them? Is it a social disorder? Is it because the "big bad heteros oppressed them for so long"?
And beat them. And limit there rights. Not 100 years ago. Yesterday. Today.

I don't CARE if a person is gay. All I ask is that they don't hit on me and don't go around advertising it for attention.
When we reach a point where people really don't care, instead of paying it lip service, maybe we can have that.

Someday in this world we gotta learn that equal rights means EQUAL RIGHTS! Rights are designed not to just protect the minorities, but the majority as well. And the right of the Oaklahoma Republicans is to hold a straight parade.
RIF. No one is saying that they can't have thier parade. Your repeated return to this notion despite different people have told you this multiple times indicates that you don't even know what you are arguing. Focus man, focus.

RIF

So really it doesn't matter the reasoning behind it. What it means is that people that disapprove of their rights to assemble yet support gay rights aren't interested in equal rights, but rather preferential treatment.
RIF, again. No one is saying they can't.

It's absolute hogwash. And I'm sorry if you cannot see that gay parades can be construed as bashing heterosexuality. But that's your own shortsidedness, not mine.

So good day.
So in this strawman world where you are arguing against a fictional entity that wants to ban the parade, you are right-they should be able to have the parade. But you see, this is how free speech works. You are free to say what ever you want and we are free to examine that speech and call you on your assumptions. It doesn't mean we don't think you should have the right to say it, it means we think you're a dink. Don't want people to think that of you? Too bad.

I don’t know what would be the point? What would be the point to having a (excuse me if I put the wrong PC word in here) mentally handicapped? (or are they specially able now? I get confused)

I guess I come from the libertarian point of view if that means anything about my thinking
Generally holding that kind of parade is meant to raise awareness/money to help the cause in question. Mentally handicapped people have certain battles to fight both personally and legally (court battles for school right and such) that require attention. If people are aware that a certain group has troubles the more likely they are to get help. I just don't see any battles that straight people as a group need to fight. But like I said, I could really give a crap if they do want a parade. Doesn't affect me.

Why? What relevence would it have to your arguement?

provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

ps: i will repeat this until some one answers directly one way or another.

So your saying that only those discriminated against have anything to celebrate pride?

You're misinterpreting me. I guess I'm getting at the fact that the gay pride parade is as much about getting across a message as it is promoting pride. I mean, I don't believe too many african people would feel good if a bunch of caucasians got together and started a white pride parade, or a bunch of males got together for a Male pride parade.

You're misinterpreting me. I guess I'm getting at the fact that the gay pride parade is as much about getting across a message as it is promoting pride. I mean, I don't believe too many african people would feel good if a bunch of caucasians got together and started a white pride parade, or a bunch of males got together for a Male pride parade.
dont expect them to understand you, ive been saying the same fucknig thing from page one and they are still pulling that bullshit on me as well.

You're misinterpreting me. I guess I'm getting at the fact that the gay pride parade is as much about getting across a message as it is promoting pride. I mean, I don't believe too many african people would feel good if a bunch of caucasians got together and started a white pride parade, or a bunch of males got together for a Male pride parade.

I see nothing wrong with any of those examples. Though if you belive their is a problem then tell me, is there the same problem with gay pride marches to straights that there is to black people with white pride marches?

Can you or anyone else cite any accurate moments in history where heterosexuals have been persecuted, locked up or executed solely on their sexual orientation?

Why do you have to be persecuted before you can celebrate your sexuality? I love being heterosexual...but I can't participate in a parade promoting it because heterosexuals are rarely ever abused? Why can't I just be so enthralled with my heterosexuality that I throw a parade? Why is it always, "Damn Republicans, making fun of gays?" This is a celebration of normality. You may think it's stupid, but many people hold the same opinion of homosexual parades.

provide an instance when the republican party has not degraded homsoexuality or insisted homosexuality is a disease or perversion and whoever has it is sick and the acknowledgment of the existance of homosexuality as otherwise is evil

ps: i will repeat this until some one answers directly one way or another.

Oh yes, mindless repeption of an arguement you refuse to explain. Thats clever

Oh yes, mindless repeption of an arguement you refuse to explain. Thats clever
its not an argument, its a demand

all you have to do is provide one isntance of the republican party not degrading homosexuality or insisting that homosexuality is a disease or perversion and the acknowledgment of homosexuality otherwise is inpermissable and the acknowledgment that homosexuality actually exists is evil

Why do you have to be persecuted before you can celebrate your sexuality? I love being heterosexual...but I can't participate in a parade promoting it because heterosexuals are rarely ever abused? Why can't I just be so enthralled with my heterosexuality that I throw a parade? Why is it always, "Damn Republicans, making fun of gays?" This is a celebration of normality. You may think it's stupid, but many people hold the same opinion of homosexual parades.
Okay, so it has been repeatedly laid out for all of you over and over again what the more complex issues are in having a gay pride parade beyond just saying 'Yea, I'm gay.' Scroll back and find them if you've missed them.

Now. Anyone of you, provide an equally in depth explination of what is being accomplished with is staight pride parade without saying "Gays get one, so.."

Why do you have to be persecuted before you can celebrate your sexuality? I love being heterosexual...but I can't participate in a parade promoting it because heterosexuals are rarely ever abused? Why can't I just be so enthralled with my heterosexuality that I throw a parade? Why is it always, "Damn Republicans, making fun of gays?" This is a celebration of normality. You may think it's stupid, but many people hold the same opinion of homosexual parades.

Unlike heterosexuals, historically any homosexual who openly admitted their orientation at very least received dirty looks and ostracism... or more likely they were persecuted or even murdered.

If anything the whole idea of Straight Pride Week is basically a message to the gay community which says "We are in charge, we are the norm. You are the freaks and while we may not be allowed to lock you away or kill you, we will keep reminding you all that you are less than dirt."

Now. Anyone of you, provide an equally in depth explination of what is being accomplished with is staight pride parade without saying "Gays get one, so.."

Im sorry, I thought the US was trying to be an egalitarian (or as egalitarian as it can) society. One where if one group was allowed somehting, so was every other.

Im sorry, I thought the US was trying to be an egalitarian (or as egalitarian as it can) society. One where if one group was allowed somehting, so was every other.
Your having a different argument friend. RIF.

No one said they couldn't. I asked why they where without saying "I want one too," which is essentially what you just said.

Unlike heterosexuals, historically any homosexual who openly admitted their orientation at very least received dirty looks and ostracism... or more likely they were persecuted or even murdered.

If anything the whole idea of Straight Pride Week is basically a message to the gay community which says "We are in charge, we are the norm. You are the freaks and while we may not be allowed to lock you away or kill you, we will keep reminding you all that you are less than dirt."

Flaws

1) This is proberbly the first (and only) straight pride march there has ever been (Someone should research that) and given the massively larger number of gay pride marches, the accusaition "We are in charge" seems a little understated

2) You do not need to be a historicaly persecuted group to be allowed to march in pride. And if you do, I suppose you support Neo Nazi parades (the Second World War was a pretty big of historical persecution of Nazis)

3) Do you have any evidence that the straight pride march is anything other than a celebration of hetrosexuality?

its not an argument, its a demand
You'll go far with that attitude :rolleyes:

Also... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseam)

Your having a different argument friend. RIF.

No one said they couldn't. I asked why they where without saying "I want one too," which is essentially what you just said.

Ok I will give a reason. Normallity is just as valid as abnormality, the only diffrence is one gets much less attention because its much rarer. This is a celebration of normality, which does not recieve enough special attention as abnormabity.

Ok I will give a reason. Normallity is just as valid as abnormality, the only diffrence is one gets much less attention because its much rarer. This is a celebration of normality, which does not recieve enough special attention as abnormabity.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

Whats wrong with it?

Ok I will give a reason. Normallity is just as valid as abnormality, the only diffrence is one gets much less attention because its much rarer. This is a celebration of normality, which does not recieve enough special attention as abnormabity.
That borders on "I want one too" because you want the 'special attention' that abnormality gets.

So lets compare now, shall we?

So normality, which is greeted everyday and is catered to specifically by normal society which dominates, wants 'special attention' above and beyond what they recieve in thier day to day life.

and on the other side-

The GBLT community does not want to feel threatened or ashamed of who they are, which is part of the press of the 'normal' society that they too have to live in everyday.

Hmm. Now. Which of those two looks like the logic of a 10 year old?